Ep. 70: Phil M Jones on The Magic Words for Influence and Impact

In this episode, David sits down with Phil M Jones, Master of Influence and Persuasion, Author, Producer, Speaker, Advisor, and Entrepreneur, to discuss the magic words of influence and impact.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Phil’s Bio:
Phil M Jones is a master of influence and persuasion – the author of the best-selling “Exactly” Book Series with over 1 million copies sold – producer of the “Most Listened To” non-fiction Audiobook of all time – a trusted advisor for some of the world’s biggest brands – and entrepreneur since the age of 14.

Phil’s Links:
Website: https://www.philmjones.com/
“Exactly What To Say” by Phil M Jones: https://amzn.to/3H0bHiy
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/philmjonesuk/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/philmjonessales/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philmjones/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/philmjonesuk

Key Quotes:
1. “If somebody else can do it, can somebody else be me?”
2. “Success leaves clues.”
3. “You have to earn the respect of others.”
4. “If you do not ask, you do not get.”
5. “Our success is in direct correlation to the quantity of quality asks that we make in our life.”
6. “The whole world wants to see themselves as open minded.”
7. “The person who is in control of the conversation is the one who is asking the questions.”
8. “Every decision that every human being has ever made has been made at least twice.”
9. “Sometimes one of the best ways to learn is through tripping up.”
10. “There is no greater teacher than experience.”
11. “A subtle change can make such a profound difference.”
12. “I believe it’s a mindset to be on the relentless quest for better.”
13. “I’ve never been wow, I’ve always been how.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Exactly What To Say” by Phil M Jones: https://amzn.to/3H0bHiy
Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com/
LIT Videobooks: https://litvideobooks.com/exactly

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

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Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the trusted Leader show. it’s David Horsager, I have a very

[david_horsager]: special guest. He’s a dear friend. I’m goingnna see a New York City coming

[david_horsager]: up. Thank you and welcome to the show, Phil M. Jones.

[phil_m_jjones]: David is the joy to be here. Thanks for inviting me to be part of this.

[david_horsager]: Oh, thank you, well, Phil. I mean, you know

[david_horsager]: so many people I talk to If they’re going to describe you with one word or

[david_horsager]: two, it is brilliant,

[david_horsager]: humble and kind, and it’s it’s true. You got this Th, this just brilliant

[david_horsager]: guy who you split your time. You’re a Brit, but you’re U, K, and U. S.

[david_horsager]: You’ve got four kids like I do? you know how to raise daughters? You get two

[david_horsager]: a little bit older to quite young, and the tw. the the twins, your uh

[david_horsager]: amazing wife, Charlotte, and just on the business front, I’ll give a quick

[david_horsager]: update. I want to have you jump in, but you know some of your clients are

[david_horsager]: some of the biggest in the world, everything from Keller Williams to G, M to

[david_horsager]: Fidelity, and a whole lot of eight hundred more. But um, you know you are an

[david_horsager]: entrepreneur to young age. We’re going to come back to that, but you, you

[david_horsager]: know you speak, you train you consult, you run a company or two. I think, Um

[david_horsager]: that, I want to talk a little bit about your newest book today, too, because

[david_horsager]: exactly what to say has sold over a million companies, this runaway

[david_horsager]: Besteller, and just so everybody knows Phil is going to be our closing

[david_horsager]: keynote speaker at the Trusted Leader’s Summit in April at the ▁j W.

[david_horsager]: Marriott at the Mall of America, so I wanted people to get to know you a

[david_horsager]: little bit more. We have an amazing line up at the summit and you’re closing

[david_horsager]: us. and uh I, I’m excited about that. so hey, give us a. Give us another one

[david_horsager]: or two. Th. three things about Phil Jones that we should know.

[phil_m_jjones]: Wow. I mean, you touched on somebody of the day, David. And and yes, I

[phil_m_jjones]: started in business as a kid. I started knocking on the doors of my

[phil_m_jjones]: neighbors, asking them politely whether they wanted to have their car washed,

[phil_m_jjones]: and I build a fairly lucrative little car cleaning business in my teens,

[phil_m_jjones]: so that I am, I didn’t go to school as often as I should by the age of

[phil_m_jjones]: fifteen because I was making more money than the vulc of my school

[phil_m_jjones]: teachachers, which was a a really fun position to be in, And I’ve always been

[phil_m_jjones]: building businesses. I always been leading others and I, I never even knew

[phil_m_jjones]: that this was a real thing. It was just a natural thing that that I wanted to

[phil_m_jjones]: go out to be out to do. and I have this innate belief system that if somebody

[phil_m_jjones]: else can do it, can somebody else be me? So I’ve lived in environments where

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ve been in awe of so many brilliant people and learned that success leads

[phil_m_jjones]: clues. And any time I’ve ever met anybody who was better at anything than I

[phil_m_jjones]: am, I’ve never gone like Wow. I’ve always asked a question how and what

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s allowed me to be at to do is is to fast track intelligence, Fas Strick

[phil_m_jjones]: into the experience, borrow the experience of others. So my career is Is is

[phil_m_jjones]: allowed me to have this both breadth and depth of working with over eight

[phil_m_jjones]: hundred different industries, training over two million sales professionals

[phil_m_jjones]: around the world, working in five different continents. Now written what?

[phil_m_jjones]: eleven books David, I was working at the other day. Eleven books I’ve either

[phil_m_jjones]: written or co authored in its entirety And it’s been a ride. because I never

[phil_m_jjones]: planned to do any this stuff. It’s always been organic from one opportunity

[phil_m_jjones]: to the next to the next to the next, and it is a joy to have come from such

[phil_m_jjones]: such earnest hard working background To now get the privileged position. I

[phil_m_jjones]: have to help. No lead some really big initiatives or influenced the leaders

[phil_m_jjones]: in big initiatives to make lasting change. So that’s kind of a a little

[phil_m_jjones]: potted history on me, and in not just what I’ve done by how I think, which I,

[phil_m_jjones]: i think is a fun place to start.

[david_horsager]: it’s a fun place to start and I think we, we could go one to two ways,

[david_horsager]: personal or business first. I, I can’t wait to get back to some personal

[david_horsager]: things be cause. I think you arere doing some great things to lead your

[david_horsager]: family in life, and I think great leaders tend to do that, at least seek to

[david_horsager]: do that well, even though none of us perectly. but let’s jump into a couple

[david_horsager]: of business things. I know you know. there’s a lot that people haven’t

[david_horsager]: heard. You help guiding Premier League football clubs. You help grow an

[david_horsager]: independent real estate business to knew over two and forty million a

[david_horsager]: quarter billion dollars. with just five people there, some great takeaways’

[david_horsager]: going to get here. Let’s jump into what you wrote in your last uh, runaway

[david_horsager]: Besteller, Exactly what to say at the you’. Going to talk about exactly what

[david_horsager]: to say To be trusted. but you know first of all, just give us a quick

[david_horsager]: background of the book. I love the content. I’ve got a few specific

[david_horsager]: questions here, but give us little background of the book.

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, there’s a few things that to where the book came from, and one of the

[phil_m_jjones]: most interesting things to me as a young leader was that I was in the unique

[phil_m_jjones]: position of leading significant experience teams in my early twenties,

[phil_m_jjones]: working with some of the biggest retailers in the U. K. And there’s a

[phil_m_jjones]: difficult position to be in when you’re leading from a position of being

[phil_m_jjones]: really youthful. And I was. I was like in my early twenties at the time, and

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s hard to be able to gain the respect of others and I learnt real quickly

[phil_m_jjones]: after to earn the respect of others. so for me to be at a lead change, What I

[phil_m_jjones]: was often doing was looking for the examples of people who were doing things

[phil_m_jjones]: brilliantly, capitalizing upon their brilliant example and sharing their

[phil_m_jjones]: brilliant example with somebody else to help them raise their game. and I’d

[phil_m_jjones]: do this on repeat, on repeat and repeat. So I of studying peak performance by

[phil_m_jjones]: accident,

[david_horsager]: How did you study them? By the Waycause, Not everybody around as a young

[david_horsager]: leader Where leaders did you read about them? Watch him listen to them. How

[david_horsager]: did you? How did you get around them?

[phil_m_jjones]: all of it anything, all of it is in in my direct workplace. I was. I was that

[phil_m_jjones]: sneaky manager. By walking about, You know, I was looking to better to catch

[phil_m_jjones]: examples of brilliance. I was staying just far enough back to be out to hear

[phil_m_jjones]: things articully, but not close enough to distract, and I would do a huge

[phil_m_jjones]: amount of debef. And what happens when you sit down with a smart person at

[phil_m_jjones]: the end of them just achieving something impressive and you ask them how and

[phil_m_jjones]: what happened here? Exceptra Quite often they don’t know until they’re asked

[phil_m_jjones]: And when Naras, they started me on pack in, you learn to be a reverse

[phil_m_jjones]: engineer Things. Now I did that for a lot of times, and then created training

[phil_m_jjones]: materials in all of my employed positions that would help those organizations

[phil_m_jjones]: much of that train material that’s still existing to day. Then when I started

[phil_m_jjones]: my consulting practice back in two thousand and nine, two thousand and ten, I

[phil_m_jjones]: started to get this transparency of more and more different industries and

[phil_m_jjones]: you’d teach them principles, you teach them strategies, you teach some

[phil_m_jjones]: skills, and quite often what they’d come back with us. I say yeah, but for

[phil_m_jjones]: what what exactly should I say or they? they feel like like this all sounds

[phil_m_jjones]: great. but I wish I had you like on my shoulder or in my pocket or somewhere

[phil_m_jjones]: I could draw from in all of those critical conversations where it mattered

[phil_m_jjones]: and at the time I enjoyed that right ego players. Like that’s cool. They

[phil_m_jjones]: think I’m more so my God skills they haven’t got, but over time it became

[phil_m_jjones]: like

[phil_m_jjones]: Ha, we’ going to do something for this, and when I realized from training

[phil_m_jjones]: more than two million sales professionals around the world is the difference

[phil_m_jjones]: between those that do good and those that do great is the ones that really

[phil_m_jjones]: crushy of, put the time into knowing exactly what to say when to say and how

[phil_m_jjones]: to make it count. They know the worst time to think about the thing they’re

[phil_m_jjones]: goingnna say is in the moment when they say it, and they put time effort and

[phil_m_jjones]: energy into being out of prepare for life’s critical conversations ahead of

[phil_m_jjones]: time. That’s what they’ve done and they doney on repeat what it does is. It

[phil_m_jjones]: doesn’t make them feeling like they’re coming from a position of a script. It

[phil_m_jjones]: actually allows them to show up for the moment and be in the moment with more

[phil_m_jjones]: presentsence ’cause they’re not worried about what’s next. They’re not all up

[phil_m_jjones]: in their head. They understand that, regardless of what somebody throws at

[phil_m_jjones]: them, they’ve already thought about this scene that imagined it ahead of time

[phil_m_jjones]: so they can steer there, un, choose their own adventures. So this fascinated

[phil_m_jjones]: me, and when I started delivering to my Keynos, two thousand and twelve, two

[phil_m_jjones]: thousand and thirteen is, I used to deliver like sprinklings of what I would

[phil_m_jjones]: call magic words.

[phil_m_jjones]: They were handfuls of examples of words, but they were always a takeaways.

[phil_m_jjones]: People loved the speech, but they laughd like the magic words. right. They

[phil_m_jjones]: loved that piece and all this was fun. Then what happened was? I went to a a

[phil_m_jjones]: mastermind group, Um, where the group of other speakers of mine may be, you

[phil_m_jjones]: know. Just not long after delivering one of these speeches and we were

[phil_m_jjones]: talking about writing books

[phil_m_jjones]: and they said, Um, it’s so hard to publish a book nowadays, and me and my big

[phil_m_jjones]: mouth got me into trouble. Said you could publish a book like real quick like

[phil_m_jjones]: three weeks. I could turn something around into day’s age with what exists

[phil_m_jjones]: and I took it a great book. I’m took in, but like self published, turn around

[phil_m_jjones]: quickly and this is two thousand eleven.

[phil_m_jjones]: Um,

[phil_m_jjones]: So what I did as I got myself into trouble by saying that I should put my

[phil_m_jjones]: money where my mouth is, And what I did is, I took a two day pi, a two page p

[phil_m_jjones]: d F. that had delivered to a telecom’s company the week prior. There was

[phil_m_jjones]: seventeen sequences of magic words to help you influence an impact, and I

[phil_m_jjones]: blew that p. d f up into a short book and published it within two and a half

[phil_m_jjones]: weeks to prove my friends wrong.

[phil_m_jjones]: Here we are. Then eight weeks after me sending it Go alive. We got a hundred

[phil_m_jjones]: and twenty thousand downloads from a free Kindle promotion. I’ve got people

[phil_m_jjones]: like like reaching out to me from all corners of the earth saying this is

[phil_m_jjones]: amazing. This is really helpful and I like tripped over this thing.

[phil_m_jjones]: That little book went on to be a giveway for lead capture on my website was

[phil_m_jjones]: give away on the back of events and promotions, small little upsell when it

[phil_m_jjones]: was occasional. But then when I moved to the U. S, geographically in Um, two

[phil_m_jjones]: thousand seventeen inch, Um, my wife and I were deciding that we were going

[phil_m_jjones]: to make the U S. our primary home base, opposed to the U. K, and I thought I

[phil_m_jjones]: gotta do something big here so that I can move from having a global

[phil_m_jjones]: enterprise to having more of a North American based enterprise, So I decided

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m going to write a brand new book, and then in a moment of inspiration I

[phil_m_jjones]: went, Don’t be an idiot, Phll, Why are you trying to write a brand new book

[phil_m_jjones]: when you’ve got a great book that wasnt written properly in the first place,

[phil_m_jjones]: So I went back and I recreated one of my greatest hits and then we called

[phil_m_jjones]: that exactly what to say so. Exactly what to say is magic words To point out,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[phil_m_jjones]: it wasn’t me launching a new idea. It was me refining an old idea. it was me

[phil_m_jjones]: adding substance. an old idea. Not only that it. Since me first releasing it,

[phil_m_jjones]: now I had workshop this material. I’d work with organizations from all from

[phil_m_jjones]: so many different ways, Like it was so tight. it was so distilled and so

[phil_m_jjones]: compact. And what really was the magic in it? David is is,

[phil_m_jjones]: and I only know this from reverse engineering. Don’t think I was smart enough

[phil_m_jjones]: to know at the time

[phil_m_jjones]: is I wrote the biggest little book possible. How can I cram all these deep

[phil_m_jjones]: rooted psychological principles This decades of experience, thousands of

[phil_m_jjones]: different industries, and put into a book you can read in seventy five

[phil_m_jjones]: minutes? What I learnt was If I teach people the example, they’ll learn the

[phil_m_jjones]: principle. If I teach people the principle, they’ll struggle to find examples

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: that relate to their own world. So that’s what we got with the book. Exactly

[phil_m_jjones]: what to say is twenty three precise sequences of words that allow you to show

[phil_m_jjones]: up to life’s critical conversations with more confidence and competence. But

[phil_m_jjones]: what you learn from the book is principles. What you learn is principles of

[phil_m_jjones]: influence of persuasion. Without realizing that’s what you learn. and when

[phil_m_jjones]: you get the confidence to bring these into your daily life, you understand

[phil_m_jjones]: the power reciprocity, you understand the power of labeeling. You understand

[phil_m_jjones]: that it’s pull and not push right, You learn all these things by accident, So

[david_horsager]: so let’s jump in. We got a lot there’. A this is, you know, and it took off

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s really the

[david_horsager]: and it, and um it’s It’s been an amazing, genuine, uh, global and North

[david_horsager]: American besteller And you know I love it because it is quick easy to read.

[david_horsager]: It’s got tips I can think differently about tomorrow and so let’s just jump

[david_horsager]: into a few. Everybody. The book is exactly what to say. He’s got. Uh. you’ve

[david_horsager]: got some other uh work coming out exactly how to sell in some future work.

[david_horsager]: but this, this is for everybody. They they should start. I think start with

[david_horsager]: this exactly what to say, And you’re telling you’re teaching people exactly

[david_horsager]: what to say in sales or leadership or real estate or whatever, But let’s be

[david_horsager]: for leaders today. Let’s jump in here and let’s let’s think about or let me

[david_horsager]: let you start where you? What what would be? Uh first, I, I’m looking at

[david_horsager]: your list. I want simple swaps and two types of people and a favor just out

[david_horsager]: of curiosity. Even some the things you talk about. But where would you start

[david_horsager]: if you said, let me let me give a couple of tips and takeways that would wet

[david_horsager]: people’s appetite and have them you know. Give them something like could use

[david_horsager]: tomorrow morningt.

[phil_m_jjones]: well. If we’re going to go straight in for something that people can use to

[phil_m_jjones]: Morrow morning Is it is quite often you want to um, ask somebody to take a

[phil_m_jjones]: look of something, but you’re fearful of rejection, so we all know that If

[phil_m_jjones]: you do not ask, you do not get. We also know that our success is in direct

[phil_m_jjones]: correlation to the quantity of quality asks that we make in our life. we know

[phil_m_jjones]: those things to be true. Yet still the biggest reason that most people don’t

[phil_m_jjones]: get whether’d like to go in life is because they’re afraid to ask for it. Why

[phil_m_jjones]: because they’re fearful of rejection. So fun place to start might be just to

[phil_m_jjones]: share some examples of a rejection, free, opening formula, Sects of words you

[phil_m_jjones]: can use to ask just about anybody just about anything, and it be completely

[phil_m_jjones]: your rejection free. See if I wanted somebody to consider my idea. I wouldn’t

[phil_m_jjones]: ask them directly to consider my idea. I’d preface the ask with the words,

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m not sure if it’s for you.

[phil_m_jjones]: But

[phil_m_jjones]: so why would I do that specifically if we go slow if somebody presented an

[phil_m_jjones]: idea to you and said, I’m not sure if it’s for you. What with the little

[phil_m_jjones]: voice in subconscious, Say,

[david_horsager]: I want to know

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, it would actually do two things. Is what it would do David to do two

[phil_m_jjones]: things. First thing it would do is it will say. Well, well, I’ll be the judge

[phil_m_jjones]: of that,

[phil_m_jjones]: takes full personal responsibility for the factor decision needs to be made,

[phil_m_jjones]: and that decision as mine to make.

[phil_m_jjones]: Second thing it does is curiosity is Pete. What is it like? You naturally

[phil_m_jjones]: want to lean in to find out more about it. Now there’s a three letter word on

[phil_m_jjones]: the end of this example that carries huge power, and I’m not sure whether it

[phil_m_jjones]: was Peter Parker or Uncle Ben that once said it, but they said with great

[phil_m_jjones]: power comes great responsibility. Same is true as leaders how we use the

[phil_m_jjones]: word, but

[phil_m_jjones]: see people often think the word Barany gates what was said prior to it.

[phil_m_jjones]: That’s what we talk. It’s not actually true what the word, but actually does

[phil_m_jjones]: As it shifts the focus to next. You cannot help but look at what’s next When

[phil_m_jjones]: the word buddies used doesn’t negate what was said Prior shifts the focus to

[phil_m_jjones]: next. So if I wanted somebody to consider my idea and I said, Hey, I’m not

[phil_m_jjones]: sure if it’s for you, but little voice says well, I’ll be the judge of that.

[phil_m_jjones]: What is it full? We’re looking at it. How

[david_horsager]: M

[phil_m_jjones]: do you use that as a leader? Say, for example that you’ve got. Um. The need

[phil_m_jjones]: to meet are to get some of your teens to provide some extra commitment in

[phil_m_jjones]: time, effort for energy hours towards a project. Hey, I’m not sure if it’s

[phil_m_jjones]: for you, but we have a dead line of hitt this on Friday and I could really do

[phil_m_jjones]: with some extra attention.

[phil_m_jjones]: Say, for example, you’re looking for somebody to be able to commit to a new

[phil_m_jjones]: opportunity is. Hey, I’m not sure if it’s for you, but there could be an

[phil_m_jjones]: opening for a promotion for you in another division of the business.

[phil_m_jjones]: What if this is you looking to be at a leader Cha, through your suppliers is

[phil_m_jjones]: hey, I’m not sure if it’s for you, but I would love to explore the

[phil_m_jjones]: possibility of us doing more business at a lower rate.

[phil_m_jjones]: See what it allows us to do. It allows us to table a conversation

[phil_m_jjones]: and by tableling a conversation charts Are, we can have that next

[phil_m_jjones]: conversation easily and people think the conversations are difficult. My

[phil_m_jjones]: experience is often getting to the conversation that’s difficult, not the

[phil_m_jjones]: conversation itself and while we’re running it this quickly, let me give you

[phil_m_jjones]: one more rejection free opening formula. That’s super useful, David. You can

[phil_m_jjones]: play along with this because you know the speaking world better than I do is

[phil_m_jjones]: if there were a thousand people in an audience and I asked the question

[phil_m_jjones]: whilst raising my hand. who in this room would see themselves as open minded.

[phil_m_jjones]: How many hands do you think we will shoot the sky?

[david_horsager]: eighty to ninety percent

[phil_m_jjones]: Yeah, eighty ninety percent right, Some li. most of them with with the

[phil_m_jjones]: remainder probably not raising the hand regardless of what was offered

[david_horsager]: right. A

[phil_m_jjones]: like cash, cookies’s cake. They’re not going up regardless. So what we’ve got

[phil_m_jjones]: here is a fact. The fact is the whole world like to see themselves as open

[phil_m_jjones]: minded. That’s the fact that fact is useful when applied to another

[phil_m_jjones]: principle. And the principle is this. All leaders should know. This is that

[phil_m_jjones]: the person who is in control of the conversation is the one who is asking the

[phil_m_jjones]: questions.

[phil_m_jjones]: So if you know that principle, apply it to the fact that the whole world

[phil_m_jjones]: likes to see themselves as open minded. You’ve just stumbled across a

[phil_m_jjones]: rejection free opening formula, which would be the question. How open minded

[phil_m_jjones]: would you be to

[phil_m_jjones]: how

[david_horsager]: M.

[phil_m_jjones]: open minded would you be to revising your pricing? How open minded would you

[phil_m_jjones]: be to take on some more responsibility? How open minded would you be to

[phil_m_jjones]: finding some time for us to talk about how you could raise your performance?

[phil_m_jjones]: How open minded would you be to understand what our competition are up to

[phil_m_jjones]: right now so we could raise our game? I mean, how hardper minded would you be

[phil_m_jjones]: to using the words How open minded are you more often?

[david_horsager]: great, A great couple tips, open minded. I think that there’s a ton of truth

[david_horsager]: in here. Let’s get down to you know, number five. By the way, my, my, Uh,

[david_horsager]: one of my top speech coaches, Um, in the history of I been coached all the

[david_horsager]: way through you and I just jumped into a hall of fame not too long ago. but

[david_horsager]: she said her favorite opening. The Patricia She’

[phil_m_jjones]: y?

[david_horsager]: on the show is

[david_horsager]: just iagine, just

[phil_m_jjones]: Yep,

[david_horsager]: imine, because it brings people into an experience. So

[phil_m_jjones]: correct.

[david_horsager]: how do you use that phrase? Just imagine.

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, it can be used in a variety of different ways. What we firstly have to

[phil_m_jjones]: understand is that to make decisions

[phil_m_jjones]: that every decision that every human being is ever made has been made at

[phil_m_jjones]: least twice.

[phil_m_jjones]: Note that what I’m really saying is we first make decisions in our mind’s

[phil_m_jjones]: eye. Hypothetically, speaking, we choose it up here before we choose it in

[phil_m_jjones]: reality. So if you can get yourself to get other people to see themselves in

[phil_m_jjones]: a situation before you invite them to choose to be in that situation, the

[phil_m_jjones]: chances of them choosing to be in that situation is significantly higher.

[phil_m_jjones]: Apply that to the fact that what we know as leaders about motivation is

[phil_m_jjones]: people would do things for one or three reasons. Reason why is sun to run

[phil_m_jjones]: towards are y, and incentsive reason too, is something to run away from

[phil_m_jjones]: something they’re scared of. Reason three is something that makes our own

[phil_m_jjones]: heart seening, because largely we were all selfish creatures, Right like

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s the three things that we will do things for towards away yourself and

[phil_m_jjones]: knowing that, Or what can I use the words? Just imagine to do well, I can use

[phil_m_jjones]: them to paint pictures in other people’s minds of alternate future realities.

[phil_m_jjones]: Hey, just imagine we don’t make this move right now and our competition make

[phil_m_jjones]: the move before us. Where does that leave us?

[phil_m_jjones]: Hey, just imagine we do put this extra time energy and effort into this

[phil_m_jjones]: initiative, allowing us to take a step out in front. Finally take that market

[phil_m_jjones]: leading position that we’ve been looking to take for such a period of time.

[phil_m_jjones]: Just imagine that was true. I just imagine by making this changes, it buys

[phil_m_jjones]: you back time. Put in a position where you could not only be the business

[phil_m_jjones]: leader that you’ve been hop to be beli, to be the father,

[phil_m_jjones]: the husband, the spouse, the community member that you’ve been looking to be

[phil_m_jjones]: too, Because of the fact that what you’ve done is that you’ve systemiz.

[phil_m_jjones]: you’ve automated and you’ve taken control. Just imagine that was true.

[david_horsager]: Just imagine what. Which one of these to use the most? And there’s a host of

[david_horsager]: everybody in the book. There is at least twenty three and there’s just

[david_horsager]: amazing examples and principles. But what do you use most in Uh parenting?

[phil_m_jjones]: Um, well, I, I’ll answer that a couple of ways is yes, These tips do relate

[phil_m_jjones]: to all areas of life. The hardest thing I find is I’m the guy that wrote the

[phil_m_jjones]: book. Exactly what to say?

[david_horsager]: Mhm?

[phil_m_jjones]: You can’t bring that person home every day and expect it to be the same way.

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ve got reps in this space that are beyond anybody else’s compare. And what

[phil_m_jjones]: I have to manage and tether myself on is is sometimes one of the best ways to

[phil_m_jjones]: learn is through tripping up, falling over and then coming for consultation

[phil_m_jjones]: or counsel after the fact, and learning from others. So what I try and

[phil_m_jjones]: encourage people to do is is to make mistakes,

[phil_m_jjones]: and and allow those lessons to then be unpacked. There is no greater teacher

[phil_m_jjones]: than experience and

[phil_m_jjones]: is what I’ve learned from from the number of times people have asked me a

[phil_m_jjones]: bow. You know, how do I learn these words? How do I you know? Embrace these

[phil_m_jjones]: into my everyday life is when they become yours are not mine. The become out

[phil_m_jjones]: of your head than just become part of your day to day and people seem like

[phil_m_jjones]: use some of these things, or the Thomas A Green, like. I’m not trying to win

[phil_m_jjones]: the hero award for the fact that you’re using Phil’s words. I’m looking to be

[phil_m_jjones]: able to give people the power to understand that words can have influence.

[phil_m_jjones]: words can have meaning. words can make a change. So what I use the most? I

[phil_m_jjones]: have no idea.

[phil_m_jjones]: I really have no idea. and inevitably I’ll use lots of these all the time.

[phil_m_jjones]: Where do they show up? I think they show up everywhere, David. You know me

[phil_m_jjones]: well enough that I’m a product of my product. This isn’t an act. Um, this is

[phil_m_jjones]: what we do and knowing that this is what we do, this is the only way we can

[phil_m_jjones]: do it.

[david_horsager]: Let’s let’s touch on a couple more before we get to some other leadership

[david_horsager]: things. but I’m I think intrigued by simple swaps.

[phil_m_jjones]: Ah, I got to play with that for fun. Um, and I think you know there’s a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of truth in In In just the principle around. simple swaps how a subtle change

[phil_m_jjones]: can make such a profound difference. A quick one I’ll give. just for

[phil_m_jjones]: everybody. from a leader’s point of view, Is’s some words you should stop

[phil_m_jjones]: using one is pleased. Do not label things as a problem. You cause something a

[phil_m_jjones]: problem. You’re go to win as many friends as saying that somebody has an ugly

[phil_m_jjones]: baby. Right. That’s what’s going to happen. A problem is head to head, which

[phil_m_jjones]: means’s an argument, which means as a winner and a loser, which means if

[phil_m_jjones]: you’re the winner there, the lose and nobody wins. When the other person

[phil_m_jjones]: feels like a loser. Swap the word problem for the word challenge, and now all

[phil_m_jjones]: of a sudden we side by side. This is as versus it versus me versus you. So

[phil_m_jjones]: there’s a simple, simple swap. Let me give another one for. Let us see word

[phil_m_jjones]: that you should ban when speaking to anybody in your organization,

[phil_m_jjones]: particularly when speaking to consumers, and the four letter C word is. Of

[phil_m_jjones]: course, the word cost when you say it costs to me what you’re saying as it

[phil_m_jjones]: hurt me

[phil_m_jjones]: when somebody says how much does it cost. You’re accepting that this is

[phil_m_jjones]: something that’s going to inflict pain on somebody else

[phil_m_jjones]: if somebody is going to give you money for your product service ad Vice

[phil_m_jjones]: experience. I’d like to think you bring returns on that

[phil_m_jjones]: if you deliver returns on that money they spend in my world. that’s called an

[phil_m_jjones]: investment.

[phil_m_jjones]: So I know some of the great work that you do, David. Through your programmes

[phil_m_jjones]: with Um, the institution, and through trust Edge, and through all of the

[phil_m_jjones]: great work you do is people invest in creating more trusted leaders. It’s not

[phil_m_jjones]: the cost of your programe, While the cost of your software or the cost of

[phil_m_jjones]: your solution is a completely different thing, tiny, tiny, tiny, other, big

[phil_m_jjones]: fun, simple swap, Because this one’s hilarious one people see unpacked. I’m

[phil_m_jjones]: guessing at some states in your life, David. I’d like you to own up for this

[phil_m_jjones]: for the benefit of your listeners. At some point in your life, maybe even

[phil_m_jjones]: twice

[phil_m_jjones]: you’ve finished a presentation with the question. Do you have any questions?

[david_horsager]: Thankfully, I learned a long time ago not to do that.

[phil_m_jjones]: But you have done it at least twice in your life,

[david_horsager]: Yes

[phil_m_jjones]: right. There’s also a possibility that at some point in your professional

[phil_m_jjones]: career, to day you’ve delivered a presentation finish with that question, And

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s then resulted in somebody giving you the objection. I just need some

[phil_m_jjones]: time to think about it.

[phil_m_jjones]: We’ve heard that at least twice, too, and there’s a strong possibility that

[phil_m_jjones]: knowing many of us have heard that at least twice that you might well have

[phil_m_jjones]: been the root cause of the creation of that outcome. And the reason that you

[phil_m_jjones]: might have been the Rue Calls is because of the fact you ask a question. Do

[phil_m_jjones]: you have any questions? If you ask a question? Do you have any questions?

[phil_m_jjones]: What are you suggesting the other person should have

[phil_m_jjones]: Now if you’ve done your job right delivered. the more the information they

[phil_m_jjones]: need to make a decision. Delivered a great presentation. What should they not

[phil_m_jjones]: have?

[david_horsager]: questions questions

[phil_m_jjones]: But you’ve suggested Tom. They should have yet the feeling that they don’t

[phil_m_jjones]: have because you did such an awesome job. And now the challenge that we’re

[phil_m_jjones]: faced with is really quite like profound, because they’re confused and

[phil_m_jjones]: they’re wondering whater I miss whater I miss. What did I miss? Whether they

[phil_m_jjones]: miss? I should be out to, as on the intelligence. Here, I got nothing. I got

[phil_m_jjones]: nothing. I got nothing. I must be missing information. Therefore, because

[phil_m_jjones]: they feel that they have insufficient data Because you inserted the

[phil_m_jjones]: confusion. They say, I need some time to think about it and go away for

[phil_m_jjones]: another day. What if we make a tiny little simple swap, the tinest, the

[phil_m_jjones]: little simple swap, and let’s see how obvious this plays are instead of

[phil_m_jjones]: finishing a presentation saying, do you have any questions?

[phil_m_jjones]: Reframe the question to what questions do you have for me

[phil_m_jjones]: Now? What’s the typical answer?

[david_horsager]: something they want to as specifly that person.

[phil_m_jjones]: Yes, See the so that iss very much front of mind. And if it’s not that it saw

[phil_m_jjones]: no questions,

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[phil_m_jjones]: Which is good news

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: Now If they say no questions and have been in power to say they good, No

[phil_m_jjones]: questions. What if they realized they’ve realized they got all the

[phil_m_jjones]: information to make a decision? Which means they’ve already made a decision.

[phil_m_jjones]: Which means you don’t have to ask for a decision because you both know you’ve

[phil_m_jjones]: just made it, so all you now do is take your responsibility as the leader in

[phil_m_jjones]: this situation and know that people are looking for leadership when they

[phil_m_jjones]: consult with you when they invite you to be out of, Engage in a discussion.

[phil_m_jjones]: Then looking for leadership, so lead the dance, and all you have to do is to

[phil_m_jjones]: tell them what happens next, and if you’re looking for the words to help them

[phil_m_jjones]: understand what happens next, I just gave them to you twice. Is’s the words.

[phil_m_jjones]: What happens next is.

[phil_m_jjones]: If you’re in any one comfortable with those, try the words. The next step is,

[phil_m_jjones]: and look how what it does is, it just reduces friction. It allows you to take

[phil_m_jjones]: control in a situation without manipulating, but influencing, ethically

[phil_m_jjones]: removing the friction, leading people towards an outcome that you both

[phil_m_jjones]: believe was right, as opposed to insert in friction because of the fact that

[phil_m_jjones]: you lack leadership.

[david_horsager]: So this is a great one. It’s critical and it really helping solve quicker’s

[david_horsager]: like,

[phil_m_jjones]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: let’s move to the solution. Actually, I wanted a solution. Let’s move there

[phil_m_jjones]: correct,

[david_horsager]: so we could talk about the book a lot more. There’s so much here just to wet

[david_horsager]: people’s appetite. The chapter ten, The two types of people,

[david_horsager]: some great phrases, some great words, some, uh, some more great magic words.

[david_horsager]: Who might just have to have you on, but everybody can come here. Fill at the

[david_horsager]: trust. The leader summit Want to talk about you as a leader because you’ve

[david_horsager]: built some amazing organizations you’re running. You know you’, speaking and

[david_horsager]: and training and all this. But you’re also advising and you’re running a

[david_horsager]: whole. Another agency. that Um, you know you’ve got basically youve. youve

[david_horsager]: really helped develop other leaders to lead, And so Let what? what, At least

[david_horsager]: what I found is leaders that I trust, leaders that are leading others well,

[david_horsager]: are leading themselves well in some way, and you work to lead your family.

[david_horsager]: Well, you work to lead your fitness well, but if if you’ going to think

[david_horsager]: personally, do you have some of some routines daily or weekly that this is

[david_horsager]: so I stay relationally spiritually physically fit. because I do, and I’m

[david_horsager]: able to leave better because I do these specific routines. anything. Uh,

[david_horsager]: come to mind,

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m in the same struggle with this as I think many leaders are, and yes, I, I

[phil_m_jjones]: get a lot done.

[phil_m_jjones]: I also relentlessly believe that I’m inadequate of this, so don’t feel like I

[phil_m_jjones]: play from a position of strength, which I think is another quality that a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of leaders share. and I believe it’s a mindset to be on the relentless

[phil_m_jjones]: ▁quest. for better.

[phil_m_jjones]: I think that’s why many of us choose to leave, because we’re on the

[phil_m_jjones]: relentlessquest For better is never satisfied, never satisfied satisfied and

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s hard to find peace with that, but I believe that that’s where I’m at Is

[phil_m_jjones]: is if there’s a habit or a routine that I have is. I have never for more than

[phil_m_jjones]: twenty years of my professional life blamed anybody for anything,

[phil_m_jjones]: so I take full personal accountability, full persontal responsibility for

[phil_m_jjones]: everything is happening in my life, And I tell you what that allows me to run

[phil_m_jjones]: a pace that is different, Most

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: cause. I’m never pointing a finger. I’m never wondering whether it should

[phil_m_jjones]: have been different and I’m not looking at somebody else’s inadequacies or

[phil_m_jjones]: somebody else’s performance as their effect on my performance, so I think

[phil_m_jjones]: that is a habit that I that I feel very disciplined and come from a place of

[phil_m_jjones]: confidence on. I also believe massively

[phil_m_jjones]: in

[phil_m_jjones]: your circle

[phil_m_jjones]: who who the people are that you have that you can learn from, and I’ve worked

[phil_m_jjones]: very hard to get myself into rooms of people that stretch rooms of people

[phil_m_jjones]: that can ask questions of me that I’m not brave enough to ask myself who I

[phil_m_jjones]: trust enough to be able to give insights and answers. And I’ve done that for

[phil_m_jjones]: the last twenty plus years of a leader. As I think I started this interview

[phil_m_jjones]: that I’ve I’ve never been Wow. I’ve always been how, and I then has allowed

[phil_m_jjones]: me to get to a position as a leader. The the people that I once looked up to

[phil_m_jjones]: are now my Pierce.

[phil_m_jjones]: and that is

[phil_m_jjones]: is wonderful and something that. I’m always going to be humble enough to be a

[phil_m_jjones]: keep shooting. For us to say that there is so much wisdom around, and if you

[phil_m_jjones]: can

[phil_m_jjones]: choose who you take advice from,

[phil_m_jjones]: understand that advice and opinion are two different things,

[phil_m_jjones]: and

[phil_m_jjones]: give yourself the blessing of of being somebody who shows up for those people

[phil_m_jjones]: well enough. That means that then they’ll show up for you when you need them.

[phil_m_jjones]: That almost hidden team that nobody else gets to see

[phil_m_jjones]: is probably

[phil_m_jjones]: a habit that I’ve invested in in the dark hours in the shadows that nobody

[phil_m_jjones]: else sees has probably served me more than most.

[david_horsager]: you’ve built some amazing relships. I know your mission and it’s simple is

[david_horsager]: to help great people get better, and you’ve certainly made me better Full

[david_horsager]: disclosure. with everybody. There’s five of us that are part of a mastermind

[david_horsager]: group. We will be meeting in just a week, I think in New York, and we meet

[david_horsager]: multiple times a year. We all business owners that are trying to change the

[david_horsager]: world for good through practice or our companies.

[david_horsager]: Um, you love seeing other people do better. I’ve seen you start. I think

[david_horsager]: something that I. I think white people might be interested in giving to you,

[david_horsager]: Is you. You’re so willing to start with generosity. Start by giving, start

[david_horsager]: by by helping and Um in our industry, at least

[david_horsager]: multiple shared friends. Like if I’m going to ask people, Phil is a giver.

[david_horsager]: and I think that’s that’s a part of. that’s a habit that you have not to

[david_horsager]: press into this too much. We got. We got to land the plane soon, but

[david_horsager]: anything, just personally. that. If you’re going to open up the personal

[david_horsager]: commono, said, this is something I do regularly just as a leader to have a

[david_horsager]: better marriage to stay uh, healthy. To be a better dad

[david_horsager]: consistently,

[phil_m_jjones]: I think consistently, Um

[phil_m_jjones]: is to not bring the work version of me

[phil_m_jjones]: home that often

[david_horsager]: H,

[phil_m_jjones]: is

[phil_m_jjones]: in our line of work and as dynamically as we push it, I’m often the person

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s looked to find the answers. I’m often the person that is responsible

[phil_m_jjones]: for change that

[phil_m_jjones]: attribute that I talked about earlier of taking full personal responsibility

[phil_m_jjones]: for everything

[phil_m_jjones]: can have negative impacts if I bring it into my marriage or bringing into who

[david_horsager]: mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: I am as a father.

[phil_m_jjones]: and I I think consciously being out to flip that switch and something a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of people don’t know about me David is, is, Um,

[phil_m_jjones]: what I’ve done over a period of time is is my middle initial in my brand has

[phil_m_jjones]: become meaning something to me. so Phil M. Jones is the person that people

[phil_m_jjones]: meet on stage, as the person that somebody meets in the boardroom, They, the

[phil_m_jjones]: person that somebody can call on and ask for help when I find optimistic

[phil_m_jjones]: solutions in just about any given challenge to their circumstances.

[phil_m_jjones]: But Phil Jones can cry, can be weak and not no answers. can um, have

[phil_m_jjones]: frustrations, have fears, have reservations and

[phil_m_jjones]: can let my wife help me. I’m feeling confused or scared. Um can show signs of

[phil_m_jjones]: honerability that don’t necessarily sharp in other areas of my life, and and,

[phil_m_jjones]: and being able to actively choose between those two characters is is

[phil_m_jjones]: something that I’ve grown into a habit of And

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s not that ones me, and one’s not me. The’, just just just two different

[phil_m_jjones]: faceets of how I choose to operate and I think that allows me to be better at

[phil_m_jjones]: home,

[david_horsager]: no doubt,

[phil_m_jjones]: cause otherwise, yeah, I just see it as a as a as a tussle. A. And and more

[phil_m_jjones]: recently, another habit was the realization that that I lived a good number

[phil_m_jjones]: of my years saying that it was.

[phil_m_jjones]: You know. it was like work, first, work, first, work first, Um, and then you

[phil_m_jjones]: know if I can find some time for family and find some time for health, then

[phil_m_jjones]: then good, happy days. I’ll get there one day. I’m still young and I started

[phil_m_jjones]: real young in this world. But what I’ve learned over time is that that that

[phil_m_jjones]: should be reversed like it’s health first, because without that I don’t have

[david_horsager]: mhmm.

[phil_m_jjones]: the ability to show up for anybody. Then it’s family, because otherwise

[phil_m_jjones]: what’s the point A and then work becomes the place Ba. Underneath that allows

[phil_m_jjones]: you to be other than deliver towards those attributes. And I think so much of

[phil_m_jjones]: work that I’ve fallen foul of in the past is is I treated it as a Sprn,

[phil_m_jjones]: A. And I’ve learned maybe over the last three, four five years is to better

[phil_m_jjones]: slow that down and think about a distant journey that we can go on that

[phil_m_jjones]: delivers joy over a period of time, as opposed to chases toward a

[phil_m_jjones]: predetermined finish. Learn

[david_horsager]: you’re almost a decade younger than me, and uh, you’re going to have to keep

[david_horsager]: pressing into the health one. Right as you go. Youve been Li.

[david_horsager]: as I was thinking about, I was chasing my kids and having a uh, this summer

[david_horsager]: and had a mountain bike accident trying to keep up with Uh. I. I learned

[david_horsager]: something by the way. I’m not just. I’m not the best athlete in the family

[david_horsager]: anymore or the second or the third or the. I’m worse than the twelve year

[david_horsager]: old. As far as aticism now, so um, but I, you know Ro in Jackson Holl, I was

[david_horsager]: actually speaking to Consul there and we end up doing the the downhill

[david_horsager]: mountain biking and and it takes a lot longer to heal at almost fifty. Um,

[david_horsager]: but uh, but I do think it’s interesting because I’ve had to become more

[david_horsager]: intention about certain things. I also can’t agree more. I know you know

[david_horsager]: everybody is different, but for me, you know Lisa and I, my wife and I

[david_horsager]: started this this business together twenty two years ago or so. And um, it

[david_horsager]: really

[david_horsager]: together. Even though she’s not in the out office with the team or that kind

[david_horsager]: of thing, she’s a a major part in decision making and processing, and just

[david_horsager]: also that, just home and and balance and be able to talk about other things

[david_horsager]: and actually be vulnerable Is certainly, I, I appreciate us, the the team.

[david_horsager]: You know, the the Ma mind we have. There’s real vulnebility, genuine

[david_horsager]: vulbility of another group of Uh, a group of accountability partners that

[david_horsager]: I’ve met with for twenty eight years, Um. That have also been significant,

[david_horsager]: but I really appreciate that. What do you? What are you learning right now?

[david_horsager]: What are you most curious about right now?

[phil_m_jjones]: what I most curious about right now is is

[phil_m_jjones]: exploring the question. enough.

[phil_m_jjones]: How much is enough? What’s enough?

[phil_m_jjones]: Where is that line and Withs’s leaders so often that more is better. More is

[phil_m_jjones]: better and more is better, and I’ve seen enough examples of that not being

[phil_m_jjones]: true to know that more isn’t always better.

[phil_m_jjones]: which,

[phil_m_jjones]: Yes, it’s okay to then say. how do you create space on what’s less, But the

[phil_m_jjones]: the curious question they have in all areas of life is like. What? Enough

[phil_m_jjones]: like? I can put relentless focus on the thing and I can make it better. No

[phil_m_jjones]: troub. But how do I find the answer to enough? whether

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s financial, whether it’s health, whether it’s the size of the friend

[phil_m_jjones]: group, whether it’s the number of accolades, whether it’s quantity of

[phil_m_jjones]: speeches in the yearce,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: what’s the magic metric of enough

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: in in all key areas of life? And I’m ridiculously curious about trying to

[phil_m_jjones]: find an answer to that question?

[david_horsager]: we’re going to talk about it next week. I’ve got a couple of thoughts for

[david_horsager]: you.

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m excited you hear to hear. Lay down

[david_horsager]: Yeah, I’ve had some shifts. It’s definitely in my part and head over the

[david_horsager]: years, and uh can’t wait to be together. Where’s the best place to find out,

[david_horsager]: you know and and watch you, Phil M. Jones, Dot Com is the central website

[david_horsager]: where you can find out mores, or anywhere else we should look.

[phil_m_jjones]: from there, you can find all the other links that would be useful Is social

[phil_m_jjones]: network wise. I guess I’m more personally active on both link in and on Instg

[phil_m_jjones]: than any of the other platforms. And yeah, keep me abreast of of your

[phil_m_jjones]: journey. You going is one of the greatest things I can hear on Social is is

[phil_m_jjones]: either you’re working on something and you hear a road block and cannot

[phil_m_jjones]: provide some clarity. or that you’ve tried something used in. It’s working

[phil_m_jjones]: and it’s delivering for you that you’ve implemented and it’s made you better

[phil_m_jjones]: as a leader. Those are the greatest gifts that you can reach out to people

[phil_m_jjones]: like us with. I love your book, but more so, I took something from your book.

[phil_m_jjones]: I

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[phil_m_jjones]: used it. It made a difference in my world, and I thought you’d like to be

[phil_m_jjones]: able to know about it, and that that keeps us creative. It keeps us pushing.

[phil_m_jjones]: So any of those kind of bouncebcks would be very much appreciated

[david_horsager]: So it’s Phil M. Jones Dot Com and everywhere else you can find him from

[david_horsager]: there. One very interesting, innovative, uh thing that you did, Actually my

[david_horsager]: book, The The Middle, Bookook Daily Edge. We did kind of what was unique at

[david_horsager]: the time where we had video and and stuff in it. It didn’t take off in that

[david_horsager]: way, but in a new way you’ve been one of the first in a new way to kind of

[david_horsager]: have a a docu book or a video book. and uh, one of the first of its kind

[david_horsager]: produced this way. Yeah, and it’s super cool. I’ve seen and it, Um, and by

[david_horsager]: the way, just who everybody knows as much as we know, great leaders are

[david_horsager]: great readers and all this kind of thing. The average number of hours at

[david_horsager]: least the last time I checked a person watches junk, T. V or junk video, not

[david_horsager]: email, just junk screen time annually is twelve hundred and eight seven

[david_horsager]: hours a year. Average of books in American reads in their lifetime, not

[david_horsager]: after their formal education, Whether you know that was the high school

[david_horsager]: degree or a, you know whatever, or a uh, or a ph, h, D. Average books in

[david_horsager]: American reads in the lifet time is one book. It’s

[david_horsager]: and So what that means is most people reading ▁zero. Because you reading a

[david_horsager]: hundred, my brother reads a. or it is. of course it books over a hundred

[david_horsager]: fifty pages. So good night Moon does not count, but in that study, but the

[david_horsager]: bottom line is

[david_horsager]: you know great leaders do tend to be great readers, but you’ve come with

[david_horsager]: another way of of injecting information. So I mean, I want to land the

[david_horsager]: plane. But one minute about this cool video book and people should go to

[david_horsager]: your site be cause they can jump there from it. But just give us a one

[david_horsager]: minute on what you did,

[phil_m_jjones]: Are so much funine. I partner with an organization called Lit Video books,

[phil_m_jjones]: ▁l. I. T video books. There are a a really dynamic young Startu company. The

[phil_m_jjones]: Uh, a keen about visual learning, achieving Um, better impression rates when

[phil_m_jjones]: it comes to being out to turn biselling books into something else. Emy winn.

[phil_m_jjones]: In producers, great camera crew, great scripts and crew, And they, they took

[phil_m_jjones]: my book. We worked in partnership with them. We created a forty seven minute

[phil_m_jjones]: documentary that teaches people in both storytelling, interview, actor based

[phil_m_jjones]: scenes, plus um, animated graphics. We teach the core principles of the book

[phil_m_jjones]: in a forty seven minute video that people can watch, and I think from a from

[phil_m_jjones]: a business point of view that what we have here is something that could start

[phil_m_jjones]: to shake out the future of what online learning looks like. Where we. we’re

[phil_m_jjones]: starting to be out a play with a. an area that I call in phottainment, Where

[phil_m_jjones]: where what this is is is information delivered in a way that were already

[phil_m_jjones]: preromed. to want to be out to absorb it. And if you can learn something from

[phil_m_jjones]: you know the latest games on Thrones, I’m I’m guessing you can probably learn

[phil_m_jjones]: more from you know, a an hour long watch of of a well packaged well presented

[phil_m_jjones]: non talking head version of a book that has be put in new way, Say’s lit

[phil_m_jjones]: video books. I think if you go live video books, forward, slash exactly, or

[phil_m_jjones]: land on a landing page. And I think if you do it right now while they’re

[phil_m_jjones]: still in this startup mode, because Im book five of all the

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: books they’re going to go do is they get like a crazy offer Like you had to

[phil_m_jjones]: try a video book for like five bucks or nine bucks or some something insanely

[phil_m_jjones]: stupid. So if you even intriued byo, look at it. if you don’t like it, then

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ll buy it back from you.

[phil_m_jjones]: However, that might work.

[david_horsager]: and it’s yeah, it, in this attention span deprived culture. Hey, it’s a way

[david_horsager]: to to pour in great content. So hey, it’s a trusted leader. Show it’s got

[david_horsager]: it. We. we end with the final question every time this is the only one

[david_horsager]: that’s the same. And uh, So who is a leader you trust? And why?

[phil_m_jjones]: Who’s a leader I trust and why

[phil_m_jjones]: there are lots and the ones that will jump to mind the names that will not be

[phil_m_jjones]: known by anybody here on this this school.

[phil_m_jjones]: But the thing that I, I always learned to trust in the leader’s consistency

[david_horsager]: Hm?

[phil_m_jjones]: is how do they keep showing up? How do they keep showing up? How do they keep

[phil_m_jjones]: showing up? And

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[phil_m_jjones]: sometimes I trust the fact that they are pain in the Us. But but I definitely

[phil_m_jjones]: trust them if they’re consistently that and you know what you’re getting and

[david_horsager]: Yes, if you’re late all the time, I’ll trust you to be late. Consistency,

[phil_m_jjones]: you know what you’re getting into.

[david_horsager]: Hey, it’s it’s it’s the. Uh, The the cornerstonone, final pillar of the

[david_horsager]: eight pllar framework or eight pills of trust? Certainly, um, we, we believe

[david_horsager]: in it. Ph. it is. Uh, just been a joy to have you on Even more of a joy.

[david_horsager]: Count you as a friend. That has been the trusted leader show until next

[david_horsager]: time. stay trusted.

Ep. 69: AJ Vaden on Why Personal Branding Is The Future Of Marketing

In this episode, David sits down with AJ Vaden, Co-founder and CEO of Brand Builders Group, Speaker, Producer, and Podcast Host, to discuss the research behind why personal branding is the future of marketing.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

AJ’s Bio:
AJ Vaden is Co-founder and CEO of Brand Builders Group, an international speaker, million-dollar producer and cohost of The Influential Personal Brand podcast. As a personal brand strategist, she challenges and inspires people to reinvent themselves as part of building and monetizing their personal brand. AJ has personally worked with thousands of individuals to help them focus their expertise, expand their reach, build their reputation and brand the one thing no one else has, their name.

Over the last 10 years she has been a part of founding, launching and building a very successful 8- figure coaching business, a multi million-dollar consulting business, and a 7-figure speaking business. Along with her company Brand Builders Group, AJ was featured in a 3-page spread in Success Magazine on the impacts of personal branding as well as recently being named as one of the Top 5 Personal Branding Speakers of 2019. Her client roster includes working with top level executives from organizations such as Bridgestone, Verizon Cellular Sales, Home Franchise Concepts and DIRECTV as well as working with well known speakers, best selling authors, entrepreneurs and online influencers such as mega podcast host Lewis Howes and original “shark”, creator of the infomercial and serial entrepreneur Kevin Harrington.

AJ has taken 25 years of setbacks, successes, tragedies and overcoming and distilled them into simple yet powerful lessons that will help anyone become better than ever.

AJ’s Links:
Website: https://brandbuildersgroup.com/
FREE Download of AJ’s “Trends In Personal Branding” Research: http://david.freebrandstudy.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajvaden
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aj_vaden/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buildyourbrandwithajvaden
Twitter: https://twitter.com/aj_vaden?lang=en

Key Quotes:
1. “My worth has nothing to do with my work.”
2. “What I do does not define who I am.”
3. “Personal branding truly is the future of marketing.”
4. “In order for someone to trust you they have to be able to see you, get to know you, and be able to learn from you.”
5. “Personal branding is all about really accelerating trust.”
6. “If people don’t know you then they cannot trust you.”
7. “Let people get to know you, and create a forum in which they can do that.”
8. “A personal brand is just the extension of your reputation.”
9. “You only have to be an expert if you know more than the audience in which you’re speaking to.”
10. “The day you stop learning is the day you start dying.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
FREE Download of AJ’s “Trends In Personal Branding” Research: http://david.freebrandstudy.com/
Center For Generational Kinetics: https://genhq.com/

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the trusted leader Show. it’s David Horasger and I have a special

[david_horsager]: guest, a brilliant woman entrepreneur. She’s helped build an eight figure

[david_horsager]: consulting business, a seven figure coaching business in short order. and

[david_horsager]: uh, she has gone from kind of sleeping on the couch, Uh, doing sales door to

[david_horsager]: door a decade or maybe more ago, to two beautiful kids. Her husband is a

[david_horsager]: dear friend of mine, Also their family friends. They reside in Nashville.

[david_horsager]: Please welcome the CEO, co founder of Brand Builders Group AJ Vaden,

[david_horsager]: thanks for being on AJ.

[aj_vaden]: Oh, thank you. that makes me sound so fancy. so

[david_horsager]: Oh man, clients from Bridgetone to Verizon Cellular to Uh, Direct T V. I.

[david_horsager]: I’m really glad to have you young, because you know we know each other as

[david_horsager]: friends also, but I know you also. I mean, just watching and being alongside

[david_horsager]: both of you building your businesses and making a huge impact along the way.

[david_horsager]: We love that and I think you know

[david_horsager]: you’ve got these two beautiful sons. I’ve been to your home and stay there,

[david_horsager]: Um in Nashville, with an amazing place, but Jasper and leam, Let’s start

[david_horsager]: with just a little bit of who you are and actually even back to how you got

[david_horsager]: your start in sales. Because I think that’s interesting, and then we’re

[david_horsager]: going to jump to and spend most of our time on your newest national study, A

[david_horsager]: trends in personal branding. Because I think everybody can learn something

[david_horsager]: and take away something from that. We’re going to give away uh, uh, access

[david_horsager]: to that special access. but before just you know what, a ▁j, Give us a

[david_horsager]: start. A little background. who you are?

[aj_vaden]: okay, Well, I would say the most important job I have is the job of mom to Jasper

[aj_vaden]: and Liam. I’ve got a two year old and a four year old and

[aj_vaden]: I think they were both born um, old souls. And it’s so funny because my oldest is

[aj_vaden]: four and a half, which he will very distinctively remind you every single time you

[aj_vaden]: say that he’s four, but he’s in this little home school hybrid and I work from

[aj_vaden]: home, and so he gets to be home a lot. But he goes to this home school hybrid

[aj_vaden]: three days a week, and his facilitator name is Miss Feather, and she’s very uh,

[aj_vaden]: encouraging of just letting their natural personalities flourish and not to

[aj_vaden]: dismantle any sort of irregular behavior, like when he’s bossing us around, or you

[aj_vaden]: know, Bosston’s little brother around, but just teaching them how to channel that

[aj_vaden]: right. So I’ve been trying to work on that and he comes, and he works in my office

[aj_vaden]: on occasion and he helps my husband with his podcast. So anyways, he’s at school

[aj_vaden]: one day, and uh, he’s literally bossing all the kids around telling him what to do

[aj_vaden]: and how to do it. And and so it gets to the point that all these other little kids

[aj_vaden]: are like telling their mom. like Jasper’s really mean to us. Dresser’s really

[aj_vaden]: bossy. Jasper is always telling us what to do. And so I approach his teacher one

[aj_vaden]: day and I’m like Okay, you haven’t brought this up, and now I’m concerned that my

[aj_vaden]: kid is a bully and she goes. No, No, no, he’s not a bully. He just has really

[aj_vaden]: great leadership potential.

[david_horsager]: there you go.

[david_horsager]: Oh,

[aj_vaden]: Ah, it’s one of my favorite

[david_horsager]: that’s fun.

[aj_vaden]: stories of like the last year. Uh, we always talk about Jasper’s leadership

[aj_vaden]: potential. Uh are just a little boss.

[david_horsager]: We’ve I’ve got some strong kiddos too, and I’ve got. I do see know one of

[david_horsager]: mine. think of a lot. I think they all have some unique leadership gifts in

[david_horsager]: different ways. They’ all very different, but one of them is very strong and

[david_horsager]: man. But she is

[david_horsager]: amazing now and you can see she’s growing up and

[david_horsager]: some of those things have softened in her and some of that strength and

[david_horsager]: passion. It just it’s so cool to see how she who she’s becoming, you know as

[david_horsager]: a leader. So

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, I know it’s It’s one of my biggest fears. It’s not just a parent but as a

[aj_vaden]: human is that I would diminish the light of someone around me by not just letting

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: home be who they are And it’s been such a great, Uh. test of restraint To just go

[aj_vaden]: right.

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: I’m going to channel this. I’m going to put it in a positive direction. Um, but

[david_horsager]: well, a discipline. I would. I would argue, discipline correction in the

[david_horsager]: right way. In love is uh, healthy as well, and we all need it, and and in

[david_horsager]: fact, we all are held accountable every day, whether it’s to our bottom line

[david_horsager]: or our people. And so um, learning some restraint. I’m not. It’s not all

[david_horsager]: bad. For sure. Um,

[aj_vaden]: no, definitely not definitely not.

[david_horsager]: so I. I. I want to get into the study, but before I do, I do think it’s

[david_horsager]: interesting. you know when we first met, hearing your story of basically

[david_horsager]: kind of sleep on couches wherever selling door to door, and you become one

[david_horsager]: of the you know, if you go way back, one of the top sales people

[david_horsager]: back when people sold, I want to say B books of some kind, And so, and

[david_horsager]: that’s bigger than that. I believe in the south. I don’t. I think they used

[david_horsager]: to do it up here, but I don’t know. for sure.

[david_horsager]: Uh, uh, hopefully we still read as much in the north because I’m a big big

[david_horsager]: into reading. But but tell us just about a quick glimpse of that journey to

[david_horsager]: becoming the leader that you are. E. especially in that I think this grit

[david_horsager]: story. You know.

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, no, that’s so good and honestly, Sales was not something I ever thought I

[aj_vaden]: would be doing. I don’t think most people go to school. I, or at least not when I

[aj_vaden]: was in college or high school. Said I’m going to grow up and I’m going to be in

[aj_vaden]: sales. I think maybe people say that today, but they did not hunt. Uh, when I was

[aj_vaden]: in college and I was an art major, Little known

[david_horsager]: Wow,

[aj_vaden]: fact, and

[aj_vaden]: it was my senior year of college and my dad, Uh, so not so kindly suggested, But I

[aj_vaden]: get a real job and a real career, And so I swapped it to the last minute to

[aj_vaden]: advertising, and I spent about six weeks in my first job before I realized. Oh,

[aj_vaden]: no, like this, corporate life is not for me like I, This is not going to go well,

[aj_vaden]: I have to like, be here eight o’clock. I have to stay heretil five. Oh, my gosh,

[aj_vaden]: they’re going to tell me when I can take vacation. What? Like the real world did

[aj_vaden]: not sink in until I was in it. Um, and I really quickly realized I don’t know if I

[aj_vaden]: would ever be a really good employee. and uh, I. That assumption was correct very

[aj_vaden]: early on, And so I started in this a journey of entrepreneurialism

[david_horsager]: so you swap for working fourteen hour days instead of eight hour days

[aj_vaden]: Eighty like that, eighty hour

[david_horsager]: Exactly.

[aj_vaden]: weeks. It like really smart man, but really smart.

[david_horsager]: I know I know you. I know your work ethic over there, so I’m pretty sure

[david_horsager]: that was not a good swap if you were going for hours and a day.

[aj_vaden]: No, it was definitely not because I think my first year in sales, I made twenty

[aj_vaden]: four thousand dollars the entire year Like that was my first year

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: and I was legitimately working twelve fifteen hour days. Um, literally, like

[aj_vaden]: sharing cars. Like did everything I owned fit in a car Like it was. It was no joke

[aj_vaden]: and I think a huge part of why I love that about, Um. our business kind of

[aj_vaden]: foundation. As we started our first business and starting a. My business was

[aj_vaden]: really the first job I had out of college and it was in two thousand and five so.

[aj_vaden]: Like Take it back fifteen years, And that was like right at the beginning of the

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: recession, And it was a really beautiful gift because I didn’t know business any

[aj_vaden]: other way and I remember talking to these people and working with these different

[aj_vaden]: companies. And and they would always talk about. Well, it’s just not the same and

[aj_vaden]: to me the naiveity of what’s a recession.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: What are they talking about? Was such a blessing and such a gift. And uh, it was a

[aj_vaden]: very long. Uh, trial and error life of hard knocks experienced. I had no formal

[aj_vaden]: sales training, no formal leadership training. A hundred percent of it was Just

[aj_vaden]: learn it on the job and that you keep doing it until you finally figure it out And

[aj_vaden]: that is how it started.

[david_horsager]: before they before we jump into the study, which we’ve got to get to,

[david_horsager]: because I’m telling for those that are watching, and most of your listening.

[david_horsager]: this is all printed out the study. It’s significant. but what’s the and

[david_horsager]: takeaways? We need to jump into a spec, especially as trust is concerned.

[david_horsager]: But Um, what’s at a top takeaway from your first ten years in sales and

[david_horsager]: leadership,

[aj_vaden]: Oh, that’s so good. I would say my biggest takeaway is that I thought that working

[aj_vaden]: more hours meant more success and wrong

[aj_vaden]: it,

[aj_vaden]: and I was conditioned for a really long time that your worth is in your sales

[aj_vaden]: results, and that the more you work, the more important you are. And I think the

[aj_vaden]: biggest takeaway is stepping back. going. My work has nothing to do with my

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: work. Not whatsoever. What I do does not define who I am, and I would say we have

[aj_vaden]: really strict cut off times in our family Now if we can’t fit between the hours of

[aj_vaden]: nine and five thirty, it’s really not going to fit in our life, and it makes this

[aj_vaden]: work really efficiently and really effectively. But the idea of sixty and eighty

[aj_vaden]: hour works and grinded it out to your eyes Bleed is no longer a philosophy I

[aj_vaden]: believe in.

[david_horsager]: and in the midst of that you grew a an immensely successful business and

[david_horsager]: then Uh, exited that and basically built another one an unbelievable time.

[david_horsager]: And it’s been amazing to watch. and I don’t know anybody more disciplined as

[david_horsager]: a couple than you two. As far as I, I know, we’re talking to our mutual

[david_horsager]: friend Jason Dorsey. And you guys were just in in Mexico together and all

[david_horsager]: four of us Uh, were together recently. Um, and he said I tell you, this guy,

[david_horsager]: Ro. He just like it’s time. It’s it’s five, five thirty or six thirty. It’s

[david_horsager]: like he’s not puts phone away, and he is with the kids or he’s with you. You

[david_horsager]: know he’s like he is present, pretty cool.

[david_horsager]: Lots more we could learn from you as leaders, sales experts, and really

[david_horsager]: business builders. But this business that you have is brand builders, and

[david_horsager]: you know it’s It’s interesting. Some of the findings. There’s so much here.

[david_horsager]: If I’m going to ask some specific things about the trends at first, you

[david_horsager]: know. Here you go. you talk to a trust guy. I’m like, Oh

[david_horsager]: want. I want to really be trusted. Not just a pi, which is what a lot of

[david_horsager]: people seem to try to do in marketing branding space. And you know I’m

[david_horsager]: always trying to really help people build trustworthiness. And and yet you

[david_horsager]: know what? if they don’t know it, they don’t see it, they don’t hear even

[david_horsager]: what is real. Then you don’t make any impact. So I, I was fascinated by some

[david_horsager]: of this work and some of what people are saying, especially across

[david_horsager]: generations, so let’s jump into first. You know why the study, and why now,

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, oh man, when we started out on this venture with the Center for generational

[aj_vaden]: Ketics a year ago, now was over a year agocause. we launched the study in January

[aj_vaden]: of twenty one, What we really wanted to do was go. Hey, Are all of these

[aj_vaden]: hypotheses that we have actually true? Like we see that personal branding is the

[aj_vaden]: future of marketing. But is that just our imagination? Is that just the way we

[aj_vaden]: want it to be? And so we really wanted to go out and get some third party data and

[aj_vaden]: fill this national research study? Because we also said if we’re not right, like,

[aj_vaden]: please let us find out right now. Um, before we would get too far into the weeds

[aj_vaden]: year and get too deep. And so we started on this. We spent six months fielding the

[aj_vaden]: study at compiling the data, analyzing the data, esimating the data, and at

[aj_vaden]: working with this third party research form, really helping us figure out what are

[aj_vaden]: the questions that we really wanted the answers to, And when we got the data back,

[aj_vaden]: No, yes, Luckily, a lot of our assumptions were proven true. Let a lot of them

[aj_vaden]: were proven wrong,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: which was equally validating of going. Oh, man, like we had this really wrong, and

[aj_vaden]: to be able to take this data and to help other people expedite their personal

[aj_vaden]: brands, Either businesses has been revolutionary in the last six months,

[david_horsager]: it’s very interesting. So, when you say uh, let’s jump into a few things and

[david_horsager]: there is so much more here, and in fact you’ve given free access. thank you

[david_horsager]: so much, David Di that free Brand study Dot Com will have that and the notes

[david_horsager]: cant to have that in the notes for everybody, David Dot, free Brand Study

[david_horsager]: Dot Com and I want everybody to hear. I know we’ll do it at the end, But

[david_horsager]: your main website for brand builders is

[aj_vaden]: Brandbuilders group Dot com.

[david_horsager]: Bran Builders Group Dot Com. You can find out a whole lot more and uh,

[david_horsager]: fortunate to be in a a mastermind group with Uh, your husband rori, and just

[david_horsager]: know you both as a couple. but let’s get in here and look at this. so First

[david_horsager]: of all, why why does even this branding stuff matter to senior leaders?

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, so this is the part that was not even on our radar, like when we set out,

[aj_vaden]: and to figure out what do Americans consider a personal brand? What industries is

[aj_vaden]: it most important? For what professions? What titles like really truly executives

[aj_vaden]: and C. E, Os and entrepreneurs really weren’t on our radar. A huge part of our

[aj_vaden]: audience tend to be the solo penur, I would say the entrepreneur, but it’s the

[aj_vaden]: typical personal brand. the speaker, author, trainer, coach, podcaster consultant,

[aj_vaden]: But when this study came back, there were three really amazing correlations Um,

[aj_vaden]: with this one underlying current around Trust,

[aj_vaden]: and there, these are the three kind of like toable things as it came back as. The

[aj_vaden]: first thing is that personal branding truly is the future of marketing, and at ▁

[aj_vaden]: gim, ▁z, specifically, as we highlight this by generations, literally said that at

[aj_vaden]: personal branding to them is not a thing of vanity or popularity. This is

[aj_vaden]: literally an essential and critical part of how they do business.

[david_horsager]: Okay, so let’s talk

[aj_vaden]: And so,

[david_horsager]: about this one for a moment, because I’m going to bring up a couple a couple

[david_horsager]: of thoughts from this one. So it’s the future and I would think. Oh, it’s

[david_horsager]: vanity. It’s kind of like you’, just a look.

[david_horsager]: And and yet, Uh, I think this is jumping toward the back of the study now,

[david_horsager]: but I was astounded. Let me see if I even have it here. Um

[david_horsager]: Eylon Mus has sixty million total followers. Bit Coin has three point two,

[david_horsager]: five million. You take people right,

[david_horsager]: uh, uh, let’s see, Christiano Rinaldo has five hundred and eighty seven

[david_horsager]: million followers. Coca Cola, the big massive, Uh brand of Coca Cola has

[david_horsager]: less than a fifth of that many followers. So you tell about the importance

[david_horsager]: and I think if I was going to jump in, I didn’t see this in the study, but T

[david_horsager]: mobile, I mean, the he’s not there anymore. The c e o. That was a part of

[david_horsager]: just rejuvenating and revitalizing and growing te mobile. Amazing, but

[david_horsager]: people could relate to that human. So if we think that the the human element

[david_horsager]: like it increases, trust, tell me a little bit more about why this is. You

[david_horsager]: know why it’s significant to kind of have a personal brand. Let me step back

[david_horsager]: for one second. Because what I see and I’ve seen this in in in just my

[david_horsager]: research on the trustwork is we trust people

[david_horsager]: over brand so that

[aj_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: there’s a truth there.

[david_horsager]: But what does that mean for our future?

[aj_vaden]: yeah, so here’s a couple of things I think are really important to know, and

[aj_vaden]: there’ three parts of this right. In order for someone to trust you, they have to

[aj_vaden]: be able to see you.

[aj_vaden]: they have to be able to get to know you, and in today’s world they have to be able

[aj_vaden]: to learn from you

[aj_vaden]: right and it’s one thing to be trusted by people who know you and your small

[aj_vaden]: surroundings. But that’s not how we live anymore. We live on a global, a global

[aj_vaden]: landscape, And with all the conversations around the metaivese, it’s not going

[aj_vaden]: away. it’s amplifying and an expedited fashion. So when you talk about Okay, if

[aj_vaden]: personal branding is all about really accelerating trust, Well, then you got to

[aj_vaden]: think about how how do I do that with the masses? How do I do that with people who

[aj_vaden]: don’t get to know me who don’t sit at the dinner table with me who don’t come into

[aj_vaden]: my office who don’t have regular conversations with me, And then you say Well, I

[aj_vaden]: have to be seen. I have to be in front of them because the truth is if people

[aj_vaden]: don’t know you, then they cannot trust you, nor do business with you, or be loyal

[aj_vaden]: to you or anything else with you. But it’s not just a matter of being seen any

[aj_vaden]: Morere is like people really want to know you like. Even starting this interview

[aj_vaden]: today, I loved what you said you said. Hey, I, in addition to talk about the

[aj_vaden]: business stuff, I have found that my listeners really like to know the personal

[aj_vaden]: sides. don’t be afraid to talk about your family and your kids. that is personal

[aj_vaden]: brandingcause. People really want to know that part of you more than the business.

[aj_vaden]: They much more care about. what did you dress up as Halloween with your kids

[aj_vaden]: versus what you know new business offering. Do you have truly?

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: and then there is an expectation to day wholeheartedly that you need to give me

[aj_vaden]: value. You need to teach me. I need to learn from you way before I would ever be

[aj_vaden]: willing to give you my money. And that’s not like a great ideal. Like Hey, give

[aj_vaden]: content out for freeurry. You give value like that’s no longer

[aj_vaden]: a suggestion at that is an expectation in business to day that I will learn from

[aj_vaden]: you way before I will ever ever give you my money. Because the truth is with

[aj_vaden]: Google and the internet and social media and Tik Tok, and you, too, like I can

[aj_vaden]: learn just about anything I need to know online. So if you’re not going to give it

[aj_vaden]: to me for furry, why would ever pay you?

[david_horsager]: So let’s before we get into number two. What?

[david_horsager]: What is? what? Is one specific thing that we should be doing?

[david_horsager]: Leaders should do to build a high trust personal brand that will affect

[david_horsager]: their corporation.

[aj_vaden]: it is is. I know this is going to sound so simple. Let people get to know you and

[aj_vaden]: create a form in which they can do that. Now the obvious one is social media That

[aj_vaden]: doesn’t have to be your job. Your choice. I, I don’t tell everyone to go on social

[aj_vaden]: media. Social media is not for everyone one, but it is the most obvious platform

[aj_vaden]: to reach the masses. but others are like. How involved are you in your local

[aj_vaden]: community, your local church. How how much face time do your employees actually

[aj_vaden]: get with you? and I would say face time to day is also considered on camera?

[aj_vaden]: Right? Do they actually know you have kids? Do they know where you’re from? Do

[aj_vaden]: they know what your hobbies are? Do they know why you started this business? Do

[aj_vaden]: they know why you’re still in this business? Do they know what you did before this

[aj_vaden]: business and most employees don’t?

[david_horsager]: M.

[aj_vaden]: most clients don’t, but that is a. That is an essence of how do I want to be seen,

[aj_vaden]: and how do I want to be known, or what do I want to be known for.

[aj_vaden]: And then you actually have to go out and do those things right. It’s like If you

[aj_vaden]: want to be seen as a trusted leader, Well then you have to show people that there

[aj_vaden]: is a level of transparency and vulnerability and authenticity. And it’s like that

[aj_vaden]: has to do with opening up the book. And you know it’s like opening the doors and

[aj_vaden]: going here. It is

[david_horsager]: Y.

[aj_vaden]: here, I am.

[david_horsager]: So number two big finding, as far as in the overall studies is that it

[david_horsager]: actually is highly profitable to work on deal with this personal brand.

[david_horsager]: creating a high trust personal bran in a real, and I would keep pushing in a

[david_horsager]: real way. not a fake brand, but really letting people know who you really

[david_horsager]: are. Americans are willing to spend more on products and services from

[david_horsager]: individuals with established personal brands. Number one. of course, go, of

[david_horsager]: course, because they know you, but tell us more.

[aj_vaden]: Mhm. Yes, of sixty seven per cent. So that’s two thirds of Americans, so that they

[aj_vaden]: are more willing to spend more money. And that’s the key word. More money. not

[aj_vaden]: just money, but more money with an established personal brand versus a company.

[aj_vaden]: Now, some of that comes back to another statistic that I think is equally as

[aj_vaden]: important that as the majority of Americans said, in fact, it was around eighty

[aj_vaden]: per cent. And if you take just millenniials, eighty eight per cent of millennials,

[aj_vaden]: and and also have to reference this millenniials are actually considered age

[aj_vaden]: twenty six to forty four, So some of you have been denying that you are a

[aj_vaden]: millenniial for a roe, longan. Ah, surprise.

[david_horsager]: Yes,

[aj_vaden]: you are one of it. twenty sixy, forty four. That’s what we define as a millennial,

[aj_vaden]: A eighty eight per cent of them said that they are more likely to promote

[aj_vaden]: Recommend by and not just by, but actually, uh, tell other people to buy, but also

[aj_vaden]: they arere more likely to stay with your company, So retention is involved.

[aj_vaden]: They’re more likely to refer other people to work for your company. Invest in your

[aj_vaden]: company all these different things, if the personal values of the founder or

[aj_vaden]: executive alliance with their personal

[david_horsager]: H.

[aj_vaden]: values. so this is no longer just about consumer decisions. this is about

[aj_vaden]: retention, and in the middle of what they arere calling the great Resignation. I

[aj_vaden]: would say Retention is a really big deal to pretty much every single leader at

[aj_vaden]: every scale right now, and you got to be going okay. Uh, If this whole concept of

[aj_vaden]: this resignation is happening, then we got ask. Well, why?

[aj_vaden]: why?

[david_horsager]: absolutely

[david_horsager]: I’ reading one, it might have been the one you talk about from your study.

[david_horsager]: Eighty percent of all Americans agree that companies are more influential if

[david_horsager]: their executives have a personal brand they know and follow so people will

[david_horsager]: spend more money. Finally, there’s this trust accelerator. Tell us about

[david_horsager]: that,

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, So this is one of my favorite statistics, but it did not come from our

[aj_vaden]: study. Um, so this is actually a study done by social chorus. and is as that,

[aj_vaden]: ninety five per cent of millennials say their most trusted source of product

[aj_vaden]: information is their friends. They’ll just hold for a second cause. When I first

[aj_vaden]: read that, I did not know to be terrified or fascinated, right because a ninety

[aj_vaden]: five percent of mallenial say their most trusted source of product information or

[aj_vaden]: your friends than I was thinking about of my friends. I’m going. Oh lord, like

[aj_vaden]: this is a. This is a problem, right. But then, like I compared that to our study

[aj_vaden]: where it says that seventy four per cent of Americans, seventy four. The three

[aj_vaden]: fourths say that they are more likely to trust you if you have an established

[aj_vaden]: personal brand. So we start of asking ourselves this question of what is it? And

[aj_vaden]: then something dawned on us and we went back to an earlier data point that we had

[aj_vaden]: in the study which asks the questions,

[aj_vaden]: What is a personal brand?

[aj_vaden]: What is it Now as a company, Branduilder’s group I, We say that a personal brand

[aj_vaden]: is just the extension of your reputation, Right, It’s the digitization and the

[aj_vaden]: monetization of your reputation, That’s what we say, But here’s what Americans

[aj_vaden]: said, American said that a personal brand to them is simply some one who is

[aj_vaden]: recognizable

[aj_vaden]: so. Pause with that. go back to this social chorus. stat. that said ninety five

[aj_vaden]: per cent of millenniial, say their most trusted source of product information in

[aj_vaden]: their as their friends, and that it all comes together Well. of course it is

[aj_vaden]: because that’s who they see, know like and trust. Of course it’s their friends,

[aj_vaden]: because to them those are people who have and established personal brants. Those

[aj_vaden]: are the people that are recognizable to them.

[david_horsager]: so we don’t have a billion dollar budget and we can’t put. and maybe it

[david_horsager]: doesn’t matter. you know, anyway. if Coca cola is less recognized than some

[david_horsager]: things in a way, But how? what are a couple things? and you do many at Bran

[david_horsager]: Builders Group, But what are a couple things we can think about doing to be

[david_horsager]: more recognizable so that we are more trusted, so that we get to Ha, make it

[david_horsager]: a greater impact in the ways we feel cold?

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, so I mean, it’s sure one day to point that kind of connects into this

[aj_vaden]: because one of the things that if you don’t have this huge budget right and and

[aj_vaden]: most don’t right, there is very few. that would say, I have billion dollar million

[aj_vaden]: dollar budgets to do something like this, But let’s say you have a tiny budget

[aj_vaden]: right. This was one of the most. This was my favorite data point of the whole

[aj_vaden]: study because it blew my mind and we asked Americans. What are the most important

[aj_vaden]: factors to you when deciding whom to purchase from whom to hire Right, and we ask

[aj_vaden]: things like. Is it important that you have a bestelling book and your are times

[aj_vaden]: spelling book? Do you need to have viral youtue videos at Ted talk? Ah, do they

[aj_vaden]: need to have like tons of media? Do you need to have like a huge business? You

[aj_vaden]: need to have you know all these different things,

[aj_vaden]: none of em. It was none of those things, the most single, most important. In fact,

[aj_vaden]: sixty two per cent of Americans said. The most important factor when deciding whom

[aj_vaden]: to hire to them was did you have testimonials

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: like? Did you have people who would put it on record that you are who you say you

[aj_vaden]: are, and you do what you say you’re going to do,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: And that’s amazing, because that’s the cheapest fastest easiest thing that we can

[aj_vaden]: possibly do is to get testimonials So when you think about like, what can I do and

[aj_vaden]: the cheapest fastest easy as fashion is to get other people to validate that you

[aj_vaden]: are who you, Ha, are you? You are who you. Say you are, and you do what you say

[aj_vaden]: you’re going to do. It’s getting testimonials And I would say the exact same thing

[aj_vaden]: happens within an organization, right. It’s it’s getting them from your employees

[aj_vaden]: from your executives from you know, not just your clients, but from the people who

[aj_vaden]: actually are in the organization.

[david_horsager]: That’s amazing

[david_horsager]: and there’s there’s a whole lot more. I. I’m reading through that part of

[david_horsager]: the study. What is most important down to least important and funny enough

[david_horsager]: on this list of maybe fifteen items. Is they have a podcast, So I guess uh,

[david_horsager]: we don’t need to worry about that, but it, thank

[aj_vaden]: No,

[david_horsager]: you to all of you that are listening today to the Trusted Leader show And

[david_horsager]: uh, you know it’s This is a super fun to share this truth. Hey, one last, I

[david_horsager]: want to ask you a personal things before we bring this to a close. But one

[david_horsager]: last item that you think might be just important to share from the study And

[david_horsager]: remember to everybody you gave us a special spot. Thank you for that, I put

[david_horsager]: my paper everywhere, David Dot free, brand study dot com, And you can get

[david_horsager]: this whole study. It is fascinating and it’s beautifully done, and in fact,

[david_horsager]: um, when we started doing our study in a new way, we used to trust trends

[david_horsager]: way back and to my grad work. But we also partnered with the same firm, Uh,

[david_horsager]: that you partner with very good friends of ours, center for generational

[david_horsager]: kinetics, who are wonderful people, of course, and dear friends. But um, uh,

[david_horsager]: yours is just it’s not you know. I love about it. It’s not just brilliant,

[david_horsager]: you know work. it’s beautifully laid out. it’s like, Oh, I get it. Oh, wow,

[david_horsager]: I can apply that. so um, thank you for that. Everybody can go find it there.

[david_horsager]: one. just little surprise or nugget. Uh, more from the study.

[aj_vaden]: Oh, titles. I thought this was too fascinating as what titles hold the most

[aj_vaden]: credibility in the marketplace? So when considering how to position yourself and

[aj_vaden]: package yourself in the marketplace, what are the titles that Americans consider

[aj_vaden]: the most credible? And again, I love the ones that completely throw me off because

[aj_vaden]: this was not on my radar and the first one was expert?

[david_horsager]: But can

[aj_vaden]: Are you an expert?

[david_horsager]: everybody call himself and I, Oh want. I’m an expert. You’re an expert. I,

[david_horsager]: we think we’re experts, Certainly atress. but it’s like man, Some of these

[david_horsager]: people can just say whatever right.

[aj_vaden]: Yes, it is so funny because in our company there is this running joke and they

[aj_vaden]: call it a ▁j’s law, Because I say this all the time, and my philosophy is that.

[aj_vaden]: You only have to be an expert if you know more than audience in which you’re

[aj_vaden]: speaking to Right, And I think there’s there’s variations and levels of expertise

[aj_vaden]: right. It’s like I am an expert at changing diapers, like I’ve been like In my up

[aj_vaden]: to my eyeballs in it for five years, Like I, I could teach anyone how to do this

[aj_vaden]: right, But then it’s like you can talk about personal branding. I’m an expert

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: in that, but I also consider myself an expert in sales to other people. Probably,

[aj_vaden]: um, but it’s I think there’s these variations of. you know. it’s like. Would I say

[aj_vaden]: that I’m an expert con compared to a mom who has eight kids. Probably not, but I

[aj_vaden]: am to a new parent,

[david_horsager]: Sure, yeah,

[aj_vaden]: so I think there’s these levels of that, but then the other ones I thought too

[aj_vaden]: were really amazing. I would was C, e o and founder,

[david_horsager]: hm,

[aj_vaden]: so expert, c, e o and founder, And then you know we have a podcast too, so I can

[aj_vaden]: totally dish on the broadcast. But then like the least credible title is host.

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: it’s like host, and these generic titles of. But what again? That goes back to

[aj_vaden]: what people are Li really looking for Is can they trust you

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: Because you know something that they don’t right. That you are a credible source

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: of information and they tie that to. Well, if you’re C e O, you must know

[aj_vaden]: something.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: If you’re a founder. That meants to me

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: you’ve done something. If you’re an expert, you can help. Um. So I think all of

[aj_vaden]: these things is really correlate back to this underlying current of trust.

[david_horsager]: well, I, I appreciate that. I think it is kind of funny the host thing,

[david_horsager]: because you know to me the host, I don’t even think of myself at all like

[david_horsager]: it. It’s been amazing to see how now seventy countries are listening and we,

[david_horsager]: we have uh, this impact it, uh, more of followers than some other names.

[david_horsager]: where anyway we, we’re really grateful for what we’re doing, But this

[david_horsager]: podcasting for the first time, I was on a uh t V interview not very long ago

[david_horsager]: and I got introduced as Um. This, you know, trust expert, author and

[david_horsager]: podcatster and I’m like I’m not a pot. I mean I, I’ve never, even. I’. I

[david_horsager]: certainly don’t think of myself as one, but it has been really fun. The cool

[david_horsager]: thing about it is I learned the most uh, from the great brilliant

[aj_vaden]: Hm.

[david_horsager]: people that I interview and it keeps me fresh in a way beyond reading and

[david_horsager]: research, and um, uh, you know, working in companies and all that. So

[david_horsager]: anyway, I think it is funny cause I kind of kind of cringe when someone

[david_horsager]: called me That be cause. I certainly don’t don’t don’t think of that, but I

[david_horsager]: guess that’s what what we’re doing. sometimes. So the super supervluable

[david_horsager]: research. let’s get back to personal for just a couple seconds. and one is

[david_horsager]: you know what. Outside of all this research, just in your leadership, life

[david_horsager]: or family. what are you learning now?

[aj_vaden]: Oh man, I am. I’ll tell you on a business front, I am obsessed with learning tax

[aj_vaden]: strategy right now, Um, and I, a lot of that came

[david_horsager]: Okay, we need to get more exciting Quicker’re going to lose everybody.

[aj_vaden]: y. I. It is one of the most exciting things that I have learned in a really long

[aj_vaden]: time to go. Oh, man, and I’ll tell you what it was is. I did not trust the

[aj_vaden]: accounting firms that we were using. There was a lack of trust. Why? Because there

[aj_vaden]: was a lack of education that they provided.

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: It’s like, just send me

[david_horsager]: absolute

[aj_vaden]: you stuff and I’ll do it. I’m like No, I don’t. I want to understand. I

[david_horsager]: h.

[aj_vaden]: need you to tell me and it wasn’t happening, And so I started diving into all

[aj_vaden]: these courses and classes and eboos, and reading all these books and it has been

[aj_vaden]: one of the most. I know. It sounds crazy because it seems so boring, but it’s been

[aj_vaden]: one of the most fascinating and invigorating things to go. I understand this to a

[aj_vaden]: way that I now know how to help my own business and my own family, and ways that

[aj_vaden]: even accounting firms weren’t willing to do. And so I think it’s empowering.

[david_horsager]: Wow, I’ll give you a new job. You can come look at our taxes be cause. that

[david_horsager]: is something

[aj_vaden]: It’s been really empowering.

[david_horsager]: I don’t want to be an expert in. I bet.

[aj_vaden]: Well and and it’s and honestly, it’s why I got into

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: it and then I kind of got obsessed with it when I learned that so many other

[aj_vaden]: people who considered themselves professionals in the field. I was bringing ideas

[aj_vaden]: to them that they had never heard, and it was a great reminder to me as like the

[aj_vaden]: day you stop learning is the day you start

[david_horsager]: yes,

[aj_vaden]: dying, and uh, I’ve just, I’ve been infatuated with tax strategy. However boring

[aj_vaden]: that may seem, um,

[david_horsager]: you two two things. In that one one thing, is it. It brought back one of our

[david_horsager]: early piece of research at least a few years ago that basically found Um.

[david_horsager]: mortgage brokers and real estate professionals. Almost nobody goes back to

[david_horsager]: the first one they ever had, unless they were a family and they had to,

[david_horsager]: Because the first experience they had buying a home. They, it was so unclear

[david_horsager]: and they would ask a question and they felt dumbcause. No one would answer

[david_horsager]: that they were. Oh, just sign here, and you feel the first time you buy a

[david_horsager]: home, you feel like you’re signing your life way. You don’t understand it

[david_horsager]: like No, Just, and they kind of rush you off and rush you through it. And

[david_horsager]: the data shows that if you would on that first time home buyer, just spend

[david_horsager]: the time to explain. It helped them understand, go slow and not push you and

[david_horsager]: try to get ten home sold day that

[aj_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: they would actually stick with you for the next home. So in to to that very

[david_horsager]: point, hey, I don’t want to. you know. I know we got to land this plane, but

[david_horsager]: I do have to ask because I’m a curious human. What’s one? um, just tax idea

[david_horsager]: that you might have for all of us they would help, especially founders and

[david_horsager]: business owners, like like me, or maybe others listening. one idea.

[aj_vaden]: y ye, if you are an ▁c, make sure that you classify yourself under the one ninety

[aj_vaden]: nine, a classification that allows you to get a twenty percent deduction on all

[aj_vaden]: path through revenue. and it single handed, twenty twenty sa, us eighty thousand

[aj_vaden]: dollars of just making sure that we were classified correctly because our previous

[aj_vaden]: accounts had classified us as consultants. We’re not consultants. That’s not what

[aj_vaden]: we do and we didn’t classify it. So by actually learning what it was and what our

[aj_vaden]: true classification was, which were a training

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: company, that’s what we do. we were able to qualify for the one ninety nine a

[aj_vaden]: deduction, and save us eighty grand

[david_horsager]: Hm, Wow,

[aj_vaden]: in teas. one simple thing, one really simple thing.

[david_horsager]: there you go. now. Yeah, I’d love to hear more, but let’s let’s just add,

[david_horsager]: let let me follow that up with this. I’m a subs. I’m a corporation my

[david_horsager]: company

[aj_vaden]: Uhhuh,

[david_horsager]: is. Does it work this same in a corporation or not

[aj_vaden]: Yes, you can. it’s the one ninety nine A still works for an escort. If you’re a

[aj_vaden]: sea corp, not so

[david_horsager]: right?

[aj_vaden]: much, but if you’re an escorporate, you’ in ▁l, ▁ C, filing as an

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: escorp. Um, it still works. It just depends on how much you’re paying yourself an

[aj_vaden]: ordinary income. Uh, because those will you know, Ba, basically net each other out

[aj_vaden]: depending on how you pay yourself, but yes, I would definitely look into it.

[aj_vaden]: Definitely bring it all to us. I, I am not a C. P. A, I

[david_horsager]: Hey, let’s put all this. this is not. This is not advice. We are going to

[david_horsager]: say this is not right,

[aj_vaden]: take this and then talk to her professional. Um, but yes,

[david_horsager]: but in one podcast, in what pod gas, do you go from family to branding to

[david_horsager]: tax advice? I mean, this is all free of charge, so this is

[aj_vaden]: yes,

[david_horsager]: exciting. I love itj. thank you so much You know. this is the trusted leader

[david_horsager]: show. so we always end with one very specific question. Who is the leader

[david_horsager]: you trust And why?

[aj_vaden]: oh yeah. So I had too, and know I’m really debating in my mind back and forth who

[aj_vaden]: it is. Um, but I’m I’m goingnna go. I’m going to go with her name is Mary Sobin,

[aj_vaden]: and she was an executive at Mcdonalds for a really long time, but then she left

[aj_vaden]: the corporate world, probably about ten years ago and started a performance

[aj_vaden]: consulting and a you know, high, fast paced but high fast paced entrepreneurial

[aj_vaden]: company kind of start up mode. And she works with the c e o’s, and she’s been uh,

[aj_vaden]: my business coach for the last year, and

[aj_vaden]: there’s not a ton of people that I would say, like give it to me straight, and I’d

[aj_vaden]: actually implement it. But I’ll tell you why it’s like she gives me the hard

[aj_vaden]: truth, but always surrounded with this like core reminder of I know who you are.

[aj_vaden]: I know who you are. A ▁j. and this is why I’m giving it to you. And she really

[aj_vaden]: does know who I am, And it’s there’s just very few people in my life that I would

[aj_vaden]: say. whatever you say. I’m going to take it into account and I’m I’m I’m going to

[aj_vaden]: pull something from it. but every single time I meet with her she is pulling

[aj_vaden]: something out that I didn’t say in the conversation, so I know that she’s spending

[aj_vaden]: time on me when I’m not around,

[david_horsager]: Hm.

[aj_vaden]: And that’s one of the things where I. I know that she knows me because she knows

[aj_vaden]: things that I’m doing that I didn’t tell her. And how can she do that? Iss,

[aj_vaden]: Because she’s connected to me on social. She is listening to her podcast. She’s in

[aj_vaden]: touch with my team, but she’s getting to know me on a level

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: where there is you. I see you. I know you. I learned from you. I trust you, but I,

[aj_vaden]: I trust her the most because she gives me the hard truth, but always in a way

[aj_vaden]: that’s

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: going to make me better.

[david_horsager]: wonderful. I see you. I know you. what a thing to be able to say about your

[david_horsager]: your team or anybody you serve or your kids, for that matter, getting down

[david_horsager]: on a knee instead of shouting from across the across the family room. A ▁j.

[david_horsager]: I’m looking forward to seeing you and your family in Orlando. We both speak

[david_horsager]: at the same

[aj_vaden]: Yes,

[david_horsager]: event. I will not have my family with. I’ll be a little bit more in and out,

[david_horsager]: But youll have your family with and I think we might uh get to do dinner

[david_horsager]: with some friends briefly before you guys maybe go hit Disney. W. Um.

[aj_vaden]: oh, it’s going to be awesome. We’re going to be Mickey Mouse ears and tow. We’re

[david_horsager]: exactly where where I will not. I will be not headed to Uh Disney at that

[aj_vaden]: ready for it.

[david_horsager]: point, but thank you, and uh, what a. what a wonderful treat to have you on

[david_horsager]: and share with our listeners. You can look at the show. Out’s trusted Leader

[david_horsager]: show Dot com for everything we talked about, Remember Brand Builders Group

[david_horsager]: Dot Com. This has been the trusted leader show Until next time, Stay

[david_horsager]: trusted.

Ep. 68: Joel Block on Why Cryptocurrency Is The Future Of Money

In this episode, David sits down with Joel Block, Futurist, Longtime Venture Capitalist, and Hedge Fund Manager, to discuss his new Disruptive Business Trends Report for 2022 and why cryptocurrency is the future of money.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Joel’s Bio:
Joel’s a longtime venture capitalist and hedge fund manager who lives in a Shark Tank world. His keynotes expose Wall Street insights to business leaders. He gives the Inside Track on high-velocity innovation for better, faster, and smarter profits. He empowers business executives and their teams to “Disrupt Their Competitors’ Future”.

Much younger Joel first entered investing by parlaying his experience at the blackjack tables into the high-stakes world of venture capital and hedge funds. After raising $10 million for a publishing startup, he operated it for several years before selling to a Fortune 500 company in 1995.

As a hedge fund executive, Joel has been involved in acquiring, capitalizing, financing, or advising numerous entrepreneurial, venture, film, and real estate projects and companies aggregately valued at close to $1 billion dollars. He has fine-tuned his ability to look into the future and identify trends. Fortified by the power strategies he acquired as a professional investor, Joel, his teams, and his clients tackle the future with strength and optimism few others can muster.

Joel’s Links:
Download Joel’s FREE Disruptive Business Trends Report for 2022: text “trend” to 72000
Website: https://joelblock.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelblock
Facebook Personal: https://www.facebook.com/joelblock
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joelgblock/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/JoelBlock
YouTube: http://bit.ly/Joel-on-YouTube
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_G._Block

Key Quotes:
1. “Cryptocurrency is on the way to being something that is extremely dramatic.”
2. “Blockchain is about the highest quality technology we have for recording things in a permanent way.”
3. “It’s important to be forward thinking.”
4. “We need alternative ideas.”
5. “We’re increasingly dependent on computers.”
6. “We have to protect against our weak links.”
7. “If your company is not using intent based data you’re at a substantial disadvantage.”
8. “There’s a new generation of things happening.”
9. “We need to look forward because that’s where our future is.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Download Joel’s FREE Disruptive Business Trends Report for 2022: text “trend” to 72000
SEM Rush: https://www.semrush.com/

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsesgger, I rarely ask a 

[david_horsager]: guest back, but his new report is out. It’s called navigating disruptive 

[david_horsager]: business trends for twenty twenty two. It’s got some brilliant mind bending 

[david_horsager]: thoughts and ideas in it. His name is Joel Block, Joel Thinkk for being 

[david_horsager]: here, 

[joel_block]: David thinks Have me back. it’s a privilege. 

[david_horsager]: Joel is uh, yeah, you. I just give everybody en case you didn’t hear the 

[david_horsager]: last episode. Joel is a futurist, He’s a long time venture capitalist. He’s 

[david_horsager]: a hedge fund manager, He’s a professional investor. He, you know, he, he 

[david_horsager]: sold his publishing company to a fortune five hundred company. He’s even an 

[david_horsager]: a expert blackjack player. But we’re going to get to some some uh, 

[david_horsager]: interesting, uh thoughts and ideas. We happen to be in a pretty little uh, 

[david_horsager]: cool group together, and every time I sit next to him I get smarter so Joel, 

[david_horsager]: uh, once again super grateful to have you on and sear on the your new 

[david_horsager]: insights with our our trusted leader group. 

[joel_block]: awesome, willll, listen and fire away when whatever you want to discuss, I’m 

[joel_block]: here to make it happen. 

[david_horsager]: Well, I, I want to take a look at this. So, and and we’re going to give 

[david_horsager]: everybody? Uh, in a few moments access to this trend report navigating 

[david_horsager]: disruptive business trends for twenty twenty. But you know we talk about 

[david_horsager]: trust. we deal and trust. A whole lot of this has overlap. And really, it’s 

[david_horsager]: really interesting around trust. but I want to jump into that first one. Um, 

[david_horsager]: number one. If we, when we just get into all these trends, they’re very 

[david_horsager]: interesting. One of them’s cryptical currency is the future of money. Just a 

[david_horsager]: quick overview. We’ve been talking about this for a while. People are going 

[david_horsager]: to have to shift how they think about the future of trust. In fact, trust 

[david_horsager]: can go up with things like block chain and so forth when some people think. 

[david_horsager]: Yeah, but there’s less trust because of technology because of Cber security 

[david_horsager]: issues. Um, you know, trust can go up. Trust can go down with technology. 

[david_horsager]: But tell us, tell us what you learned and what what you’re sharing about 

[david_horsager]: this. Uh, this first idea I saw on the trend report, 

[joel_block]: Yeah, well, first of all, you know, I circulate with Wall, three people. I’m in 

[joel_block]: a Wall Street business, And so this is just kind of what I hear down the halls 

[joel_block]: of the places where I go, and I bring this back to Uh, my clients, friends of 

[joel_block]: our firm, friends of uh, friends like yours, David. And you know, it’s clear and 

[joel_block]: obvious to me that crypto currency, which I’m very bullish on crypto currency. 

[joel_block]: Although the markets are very much down now it’s a very speculative market. It’s 

[joel_block]: a very new market. Um. but it’s on the way to being something that is extremely 

[joel_block]: dramatic. The breakthrough in bitcoin. Well, people don’t understand and first, 

[joel_block]: let me tell you that a crypto currency and bitcoint are not the same. Bitcoin is 

[joel_block]: one coin and there are about sixteen thousand different coins that are out 

[joel_block]: there, so you only maybe heard a one or two. But there are lots and lots of 

[joel_block]: ones. And what these little things are? They’re really software tools and these 

[joel_block]: little software tools. Each one’s designed to do a different job, so some of 

[joel_block]: them are really good at protecting art. Some are really great for uh sports, or 

[joel_block]: some are great for gaming, or some are great for doing transactions. So there’s 

[joel_block]: all different kinds of tools that have been built, and they’re built on this 

[joel_block]: block chain, and the block chain is about the highest quality technology we have 

[joel_block]: for recording things in a permanent way. It’s like a King Siz Excel spreadsheet 

[joel_block]: that just is really secure with notaries that are locking down every cell every 

[joel_block]: minute You know. it’s It’s a really big deal. 

[david_horsager]: This is really hard. By the way, for people to understand fact, we’ll try to 

[david_horsager]: get a. There’s a couple of videos online. If you really haven’t studied 

[david_horsager]: studyied Blochta or Crypto currency can can put them in show notes. Because 

[david_horsager]: its we people have to get their mind around these things and then they 

[david_horsager]: better do it fast because it’s here to stay. as you say. I got to just tell 

[david_horsager]: you, Joel, my now seventeen year old, uh, he started mining ethium three 

[david_horsager]: years ago, Uh, on our computer, 

[david_horsager]: one of our computers at home, but uh yeah, so so tell us more. 

[joel_block]: Well so you know, So this I, I’m not a technical person, I mean, so I don’t mean 

[joel_block]: to, you know, Use a lot of fancy language because it’s not. I’m doing my best 

[joel_block]: not to use fancy language, but the bottom line is that the technology has gotten 

[joel_block]: to the point where the machinery is trust stable by human beings to resolve 

[joel_block]: certain kinds of situations. In fact, it’s more trustable than people are in. in 

[joel_block]: many cases, because it follows a very specific set of rules. 

[joel_block]: And and so, uh, the United States government has been dragging its feet. It 

[joel_block]: really doesn’t want to do it. In fact, uh, you know, one of the things that’s 

[joel_block]: amazing about this is that uh, credit card companies are are worried that 

[joel_block]: they’re going to get blown out of the water. as are the the financial and the 

[joel_block]: investment banks. the big Wall Street firms. All these companies are worried 

[joel_block]: they’re going to be blown out of the water, and consequently all of those firms 

[joel_block]: are the ones that are making giant investments in crypto currency because it’s 

[joel_block]: the way they’re protecting themselves, So you kinda could watch the pattern that 

[joel_block]: the travel agents got blown up in the nineties When the Internet came on. These 

[joel_block]: guys are next. the Uh, the Wall Street guys. They’re next, And so they’re 

[joel_block]: They’re really working hard and the United States government is dragging its 

[joel_block]: feet. It really doesn’t want to move on to this currency because it doesn’t 

[joel_block]: understand it. It’s having a hard time with it. but the longer the short is, uh, 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, y, 

[joel_block]: whether we like it or not, the next fifteen or so years. Uh, I believe we’re 

[joel_block]: goingnna be using crypto currency. We’re not going to be using dollar bills 

[joel_block]: anymore, And the reason is our trading partners are going to force us into it. 

[joel_block]: Other countries internationally are way ahead of us. Listen, we took the lead. 

[joel_block]: We are the lead company or the lead country. When it came to the Internet. We’re 

[joel_block]: not taking the lead on this other countries are, and we’re going to be dragged 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: into it whether we like it 

[david_horsager]: absolutely 

[joel_block]: or not. So it’s It’s a real thing, and uh, it says a lot about how fullward’ 

[joel_block]: looking you are and uh, it’s important to to be forward looking and it’s an 

[joel_block]: important to be modern for companies. Uh, because I, I would say that you know 

[joel_block]: people who are modern and kind of up to speed are probably, uh, you know, 

[joel_block]: trusted at least by some sector of the society who believe that those kind of 

[david_horsager]: mhm’. a big trend. People need to get used to it, and and figure it out and 

[joel_block]: people are you know, are here to stay 

[david_horsager]: understand it, and both Crypto and Black Chain is going to massively change 

[david_horsager]: our world over the next five years. I think, in fact, we’re going to see a 

[david_horsager]: lot of banks go out of banking and business, I wouldn’t. You say 

[joel_block]: well. Think, think about this. You know children. like your, your seventeen year 

[joel_block]: old, My kids are in their late twenties, and you know, and and so forth, And you 

[joel_block]: know they don’t really see themselves going in banks. They don’t really 

[joel_block]: understand what a bank has to offer them. I mean they can go online and they can 

[joel_block]: do the things they need to. Uh. The crypto currency world has tools that allow 

[joel_block]: for borrowing for securing for mortgaging, and for all the different things that 

[joel_block]: we need to do. People just don’t see the relevance of banks and banks are really 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, y, 

[joel_block]: struggling with this. I mean this is a really big problem, and as young people 

[joel_block]: kind of become more important in our society and make important decisions and 

[joel_block]: can start controlling money. Uh, these institutions that have been around for a 

[joel_block]: long time are really at risk and they’re not doing a good job of being 

[joel_block]: forward looking. 

[david_horsager]: Mhm. let’s take a look at a couple more, and once again, Uh Kent will put it 

[david_horsager]: right in the show. Dont you see it on the show? Notes below here, Trust 

[david_horsager]: Leader show dot com. There is you can text trend to seven, two, ▁zero, ▁zero 

[david_horsager]: ▁zero, Or you can see that there is a ▁qr code. Just take a snapshot and you 

[david_horsager]: can get the full trend report, But Uh, let’s get a little more inside scoop 

[david_horsager]: on it. I think Under the human Capital portion you put this, the big dog in 

[david_horsager]: human capital is holism. What does that mean for us? 

[joel_block]: you know, uh, I, I look at this. I look at the world, and I think to myself, you 

[joel_block]: know, Uh, in the early nineteen hundreds, Uh, up to Sinclair wrote the jungle, 

[joel_block]: uh, a, about the meat paacking industry and how people were losing fingers and 

[joel_block]: toes and all these terrible things were happening, And uh, you know laws started 

[joel_block]: being passed and rules start being made about taking better care of workers. Uh, 

[joel_block]: so you know, we pretty much have resolved the uh, the the danger situation you 

[joel_block]: know of of things happening to workers. but now, uh, we’re way past that and 

[joel_block]: we’re kind of in a place now where uh, it’s not just about fingers and toes, 

[joel_block]: it’s about the totality of the person. The whole person and the whole person 

[joel_block]: means their mental state. It means well being, uh, you know, we, we, uh, like 

[joel_block]: people of color. We like people are different genders, people of different 

[joel_block]: religions, people that have different opinions about whatever those things are 

[joel_block]: about themselves and other things, and we’re sort of learning to embrace 

[joel_block]: difference, for sort of learning to embrace. Uh, just the world in a different 

[david_horsager]: Let me just pause for a second, Joel. on that. on that notion, because I 

[joel_block]: way than we might have a long time ago. 

[david_horsager]: think you’re right, but I’ll just say, but really quickly because on one 

[david_horsager]: hand we’re willing to embrace uh, people of differences, And and we’re 

[david_horsager]: looking at, you know, a lot of businesses are trying to look at equity and 

[david_horsager]: whole person and mental health issues and all these things. And yet we might 

[david_horsager]: have the more uh, most kind of polar, uh, divided uh nation we’ve ever had 

[david_horsager]: with people unable to see the other’s point of view. And and you have this 

[david_horsager]: kind of weird Di of people are unwilling to look at another person’s point 

[david_horsager]: of view. And and yet we’re trying to make a space that is psychologically 

[david_horsager]: safe and safe. other ways, in other ways, for all people. How, how do you 

[david_horsager]: kind of blend those 

[joel_block]: I. I, I would. I would explain that, in two ways, first politicians, politicians 

[joel_block]: make money. When we don’t get along, they, they retain power by keeping us 

[joel_block]: divided. If we all got along, we wouldn’t need them very much. The second thing 

[joel_block]: is the media. the media makes money. you know, but you know, if it bleeds, it 

[joel_block]: leads and that’s just the way it works in the media position. You know, I sold 

[joel_block]: my publish. come to a media company, so I understand the media business quite 

[joel_block]: well, Uh, we. They don’t lead the news with a boy scout. Walk a lady across the 

[joel_block]: street, you know old ladies don’t get walked across the street. You know they 

[joel_block]: don’t do things about girl scouts delivering 

[david_horsager]: right? 

[joel_block]: cookies. I, you know, that’s just not what people 

[david_horsager]: Sure, 

[joel_block]: see in Los Angeles where I am. You know, it’s shootings and car crashes and 

[joel_block]: chases and homeless 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: attacks. And I mean it’s it’s horrible. It’s just horrible. Um, but then you 

[joel_block]: know, then you have a hurricane in in Houston, A couple of years A, and people 

[joel_block]: of all colors, media and politicians aside, came together. they helped each 

[joel_block]: other, they work together. They cleaned up the problems that they had, and they 

[joel_block]: made their city better, 

[joel_block]: And and I think that we have some some forces at work. That really have a vested 

[joel_block]: interest. a hidden agenda to keep us from really getting along, I think left to 

[joel_block]: our own devices, most of us would get along pretty well. 

[david_horsager]: tell me this. Give me one idea before I jump to another trend Under the 

[david_horsager]: holism idea that Ceo should think about. That’s going to matter over the 

[david_horsager]: next decade. as far as holism is concerned. 

[joel_block]: You know, the one thing that I keep hearing that I, I really like. I like this 

[joel_block]: concept of psychological safety. It’s not a real sexy concept, but I’ll tell you 

[joel_block]: this, Um, 

[joel_block]: we need alternative ideas because a lot of times c e os live in an echo chamber 

[joel_block]: and the only way you get out of that echo chamber is inviting people into the 

[joel_block]: you know to the table and inviting people’s ideas. And if you chastize those 

[joel_block]: people, you embarrass those people. If you harass those people, they’re not 

[joel_block]: going to step forward and give you their ideas. Some ideas are going to be 

[joel_block]: ridiculous. Maybe they don’t thoroughly understand the situation, but don’t 

[joel_block]: laugh at people. Continue to encourage their great ideas because you never know 

[joel_block]: which one of those ideas. remember. I come from the venture capital world, and 

[joel_block]: some of the craziest ideas are the ones that make the most money. Some of the 

[joel_block]: ideas that people laugh at the hearest are the ones that make billionaires and 

[joel_block]: companies need to remember that if you chastize your people, If you don’t create 

[joel_block]: an environment where they feel safe, comfortable and and welcome, then they’re 

[joel_block]: just not going to participate. 

[david_horsager]: No, no doubt, in fact, we equate psychological safety. Trust. If you don’t 

[david_horsager]: cre environment, people can’t be their best, and of course creativity 

[david_horsager]: innovation tas dramatically, because they’ unwiing to shareresh different 

[david_horsager]: ideas. Let’s look at this. I think there’ so much here and I wish we had 

[david_horsager]: time for more of it, but I want to look at, especially number twelve, 

[david_horsager]: thirteen and fourteen in Thed, at least touching on them and the future on 

[david_horsager]: steroids. Tell me about what you’re thinking because I think this has 

[david_horsager]: something to do when I was uh reading the report about cyber issues and 

[david_horsager]: trust, and you know that that kind of thing. So this is a big risk when we 

[david_horsager]: talk, A boards of directors or Oro’s a big. 

[david_horsager]: A big worry of senior leaders is uh, losing trust because of the risk of 

[david_horsager]: cyber security issues. 

[joel_block]: Yeah, this, this has a lot to do with the weak link, And you know we live in a 

[joel_block]: world where we’re increasingly dependent on computers. We’re increasingly 

[joel_block]: dependent on Uh on on things that are kind of outside of our knowledge base or 

[joel_block]: our control. and we’re sort of dependent on other people to make that happen. 

[joel_block]: And and bad guys kind of understand this, And so what bad guys are able to do is 

[joel_block]: uh is call uh, people inside of our organizations, ask them questions, learn 

[joel_block]: about us. Sneak around. A lot of this information’s already on social media and 

[joel_block]: they’re able to break in our networks in the most surprising of ways and believe 

[joel_block]: it or not, most of it’s not hacking. Most of it’s not computer generated. Most 

[joel_block]: of it is, They get somebody on the phone and they ask them some questions. They 

[joel_block]: pretend to be a a trustable person and it turns out that they’re a bad guy and 

[joel_block]: they get all this information and they end up uh doing something that’s terrible 

[joel_block]: And the the whole concept of Uh of passwords and the way things work is all 

[joel_block]: advancing in order for crypto currency to to get where it’s gotten. it had to 

[joel_block]: have developed incredibly powerful tools that are, the rest of us are just 

[joel_block]: starting to get access to. And and so these very powerful tools are out there. 

[joel_block]: Uh, start looking for them and we’re talking about things like biometrics. Uh, 

[joel_block]: voice pattern recognition. you know, looking at your eyeball and all different 

[joel_block]: kinds of things. I mean that’s not without some concern. I’m a little concerned 

[joel_block]: that what happens if I have uh, a biometric type of thing, And and something 

[joel_block]: happens to me and I’m not available how my kids can access my accounts? I, I 

[joel_block]: don’t know how that works. Uh, so that’s not to say that it are some problems, 

[joel_block]: but the bottom line is that as more and more dependence starts to kind of build 

[joel_block]: in these areas of Uh, digital activity, we need better security. and and we sort 

[joel_block]: of have to protect against our weak links because people are well meaning. Not 

[joel_block]: everybody realizes Uh that there are bad guys 

[david_horsager]: Mhm. 

[joel_block]: out there in the world and we have to do our best to protect around that. 

[david_horsager]: Well on my phone right now. I. I look at it and it unlocks and of course, 

[david_horsager]: uh, it just seem you know so many people even worry about the 

[david_horsager]: acces of of that apple Hasz, or others. Have just two you know were allowing 

[david_horsager]: so many pictures now, and so much 

[david_horsager]: many different ways of of recognition. Any any quick thoughts on that, 

[joel_block]: Yeah, well, listen, you know. The bottom line is we trust these companies and 

[joel_block]: these companies are collections of tens or hundreds of thousands of people. 

[joel_block]: And and then how good of a job have they done of locking down our stuff? 

[joel_block]: Probably not as great a job as as we 

[david_horsager]: Mhm? Mhm, 

[joel_block]: wish they would. 

[joel_block]: And and that’s just you know, it’s we we have. Uh, Some things are are 

[joel_block]: violations of trust directly, and some things are sort of indirect word. I 

[joel_block]: didn’t mean for it to happen, but it 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: just did because we didn’t do a great job of lock at something down. You would 

[joel_block]: think that these computer companies would be the best at lock and stuff down. 

[joel_block]: but they’re not. They’re not really uh, as good as we would expect them to be. 

[david_horsager]: Well be partly because it’s so costly. it’s costly to be perfectly secure. 

[david_horsager]: and until something happens, some people don’t think about it much. right. 

[joel_block]: Well, let me tell you that that that’s a giant violation of trust if they don’t 

[joel_block]: if they don’t secure themselves as much as they can because they don’t want to 

[joel_block]: spend the money. Then that’s to me, that’s a real breach, and that that you 

[joel_block]: know, I mean, I get the I get, the Dion and the problem. But it’s it’s a real 

[joel_block]: problem. There’s certain kinds of companies that we expect to have a really high 

[joel_block]: level of trust and security and the other stuff. And if they don’t pro provide 

[joel_block]: it to us. it’s a breach. 

[david_horsager]: What was the most surprising? you know, As you looked at this and you paused 

[david_horsager]: and thought about it, And what was the most surprising trend you think to 

[david_horsager]: you and the most people? 

[joel_block]: I, I’ll tell you, believe it or not, the most stunning one to me, Uh number 

[joel_block]: fifteen, fish finders and power tools. This is truly one of my favorite deal. 

[joel_block]: It. It’s when when I, when I came across this, when when I was having a 

[joel_block]: conversation with somebody about this, and it, actually a guy came on my podcast 

[joel_block]: and was sharing this concept And it’s like hit me like a ton of bricks. What he 

[joel_block]: was saying is you know when when professional fishermen go out to the ocean to 

[joel_block]: the lake and they, you know, they don’ll just put a hook in the water and sit 

[joel_block]: there and smoke a cigar and wait for something to happen. I mean they go out 

[joel_block]: there with sonar, they look for for schools of fish, and then when they find one 

[joel_block]: they put the net out and they scoop up all what they can get, And that’s what 

[joel_block]: businesses have the capability of doing now online using the tools of the 

[joel_block]: internet. Uh, there are incredible tools and they’re called intent based tools, 

[joel_block]: and there are tons of these tools. So for example, every time you do a search in 

[joel_block]: Google, 

[joel_block]: if you say looking for a new car 

[joel_block]: five seconds later, you’re going to get an ad 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: for a new car. Y. Okay, We all 

[david_horsager]: Yep, 

[joel_block]: seen that and that’s that’s one application. So we seen that, But they also take 

[joel_block]: that same information and they might sell it to the car company, and then a a 

[joel_block]: representative from the car company can call you and say a Mr. Horsesacker, I 

[joel_block]: see you’re looking for a new car and you’re going. That’s kind of creepy. but 

[joel_block]: you know we’re kind of getting used to it because that’s just the world we live 

[joel_block]: in. I see you’re looking for a new car, or even maybe a better example would be. 

[joel_block]: Are you looking for a new house? When you come to our area? Why don’t we meet 

[joel_block]: and and I’ll show you around, Because you’re going. Wow, this guy called. I’m 

[joel_block]: not going to call fifty other people. This is a pretty good one, and I’ll just 

[joel_block]: work 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: with this one guy. So, in this intent based data, if your company’s not using 

[joel_block]: intent based data, if you’re a fisherman and you’re not using a fish finder Uh, 

[joel_block]: you’re at a substantial disadvantage and you know how can you possibly expect to 

[joel_block]: compete? Uh, And these are tools that are really designed for midm companies and 

[joel_block]: larger companies, ’cause they’re a little bit expensive. And so you have to you 

[joel_block]: know, provide these tools to your sales force, so that they have the dvantages 

[joel_block]: and they have the uh ability to compete properly with the with the other people 

[david_horsager]: is there 

[joel_block]: in your marketplace, Because if you’re not using them there, those other 

[david_horsager]: is? Is there an example of one that you you see smaller companies using or 

[joel_block]: companies are. 

[david_horsager]: would recommend 

[joel_block]: Yeah, yeah, they. it’s just a a fantastic one. Uh, and I learned about this from 

[joel_block]: one of our colleagues. Uh, that, uh that you know, Um, there’s a. There’s a 

[joel_block]: product called S, C, M Rush, 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, 

[joel_block]: and S C M rush. Uh, they collect all the data that the the Google gets. So when 

[joel_block]: somebody asked a question on Google like, Uh, what’s the best way to? uh, you 

[joel_block]: know, hire a new C. E. O. Let’s just say Well, that phrase is a phrase that 

[joel_block]: people type in and they said and then then they give you account. It was. Uh. It 

[joel_block]: was ▁queried seventy two times last month. Well, if you could write and make a 

[joel_block]: video, or if you could write a paper, or you could do something and use that 

[joel_block]: exact phrase. What’s the best way to find a new C. E, O? And then people ask 

[joel_block]: that question. You’re going to come up right at the top. This is way better than 

[joel_block]: a s. c O. Because this is a dead perfect bulls eye of the question that 

[joel_block]: somebody’s going to ask. Now. I didn’t think of the question. S. C. M. Rush gave 

[joel_block]: me the questions that people ask about the topics that I’m interested in, So you 

[joel_block]: do research on what questions are people asking about these topics. That’s a 

[joel_block]: perfect way of finding the seventy two people that last month exactly asked the 

[joel_block]: same question as me. 

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm, That you want. 

[joel_block]: And you know if you want to market to those people, they there they are. And so 

[joel_block]: it’s uh, it’s a perfect situation. 

[david_horsager]: Give us some insight and web three point o, 

[joel_block]: you know. Um, this is just you know. here. Here’s cryptal currency is a good 

[joel_block]: example of web three point of it, But here’s the bottom line is that the first 

[joel_block]: generation of the Internet was pretty much uh, just a bunch of Um. brochures. 

[joel_block]: Websites were like little brochures. Everything was just a brochure that you 

[joel_block]: would look at. It didn’t really do anything Web. Two point o is like the whole 

[joel_block]: social media thing, The interactive thing. It’s the database building. It’s all 

[joel_block]: the stuff that happens. Uh, you know, that allows us to kind of post and 

[joel_block]: interact together Web three point hours at a whole Ne level. That’s this whole 

[joel_block]: metavererse. It’s the whole thing where the computer sort of starts to blend 

[joel_block]: with our life in a whole new way, and I, I just I bring it up because I want 

[joel_block]: people to be aware that there’s a new generation of things happening. The whole 

[joel_block]: concept of these n f Ts. these nonfgable tokens, which are crypto currencies 

[joel_block]: that secure intellectual property for people that are in those businesses, are 

[joel_block]: that secure artwork. Um, these things are all coming to life using new 

[joel_block]: technologies and that’s all being called Web, three 

[david_horsager]: Mhm. 

[joel_block]: point O. So there’s a whole new generation of things happening. Um, and I bring 

[joel_block]: these things up because you know for people who are either investors or business 

[joel_block]: owners or people who are out there making decisions, And remember that I’m a 

[joel_block]: professional investor. I mean I run a hedge, Fun, people give me money that I go 

[joel_block]: buy things with it. So my job is to look forward in time and find things to buy, 

[joel_block]: and I use these trends to think about the kinds of things that I’m looking for 

[joel_block]: going forward in time. So, if you’re looking at websites, make sure you’re 

[joel_block]: thinking about new generational techniques. Make sure you’re thinking about 

[joel_block]: digital currency. Make sure you’re thinking about uh, your people in the right 

[joel_block]: way as you’re going forward in time. Don’t think about these things in an old 

[joel_block]: fashioned way. think about it. think of them in a newer, more modern way 

[david_horsager]: Well, there is a whole lot more here. Everybody can look at the show notes. 

[david_horsager]: You see the ▁qr code. You see, you can text trend to seventy two thousand, 

[david_horsager]: And and find out more It’s a fascinating read and it’s just some fascinating 

[david_horsager]: content. 

[david_horsager]: Your mind is brilliant to block, and Um, just to give everybody a little 

[david_horsager]: heads up on the five major areas, He’s talking under financial capital. Five 

[david_horsager]: trends there, human capital, fours there, intellectual capital, invisible 

[david_horsager]: capital, Sas, and marketing capital, and then a bonus. One number six is 

[david_horsager]: actually aspirational capital, So take a look at those trends. There is uh, 

[david_horsager]: so much more we could talk about Joel. I’m looking forward to seeing you. 

[david_horsager]: We’re speaking at the same event here, coming up very soon and that’ll be 

[david_horsager]: fun to be on the platform 

[joel_block]: We are. we are. 

[david_horsager]: together. Any final thought or final, Uh, maybe the aspirational trend, uh, 

[david_horsager]: something we should be thinking about one last bullet, 

[joel_block]: you know what the uh, the aspirational one really is about? You know, I, I will 

[joel_block]: hope that people would be more uh, critical thinkers. You know the world is so 

[joel_block]: complicated that we just take the first, the first idea we hear, we take the 

[joel_block]: first news report we read or listen to, and we just take 

[david_horsager]: Hm, 

[joel_block]: it at face value. Unfortunately, ninety nine percent of what we get fed is not 

[joel_block]: bonified news. you know, like the major news stations, they’re pretty good. 

[joel_block]: they’re pretty accurate. They may be a little one sided, but they’re mostly 

[joel_block]: accurate. Most everything else on the internet. Everywhere else is commentary. 

[joel_block]: What you and I do is commentary. We’re not reporters per se. And and so I, I 

[joel_block]: just hope that people could be a little bit more critical in the way that they 

[david_horsager]: Mhm. 

[joel_block]: think, 

[joel_block]: and and really make good decisions for what makes sense for themselves, their 

[joel_block]: families, their communities, And uh, and I always, uh, you know, just like to 

[joel_block]: say that, Uh, you know we need to look forward because that’s where our future 

[joel_block]: is. 

[david_horsager]: I love it. look forward, cause that’s where ours. I have to give a ▁quote. 

[david_horsager]: from my brother, who I admire eleven years older than me an economist, but 

[david_horsager]: I’ll never forget when he said, I think he wrote this too, but we’re in a 

[david_horsager]: more critical world than we’ve ever been in, without the ability to 

[david_horsager]: critically think 

[david_horsager]: so that that that there’s some truth that we have to be better at being. Not 

[david_horsager]: so just uh, divisively critical. but we have to be better critical thinkers. 

[david_horsager]: Well, the future is ahead, so we have to look at the future. Thanks for 

[david_horsager]: taking us their Joel and thanks for being my friend. That’s been the trust 

[david_horsager]: show until next time, Stay trusted. 

Ep. 67: Rory Vaden on How You Can Multiply Your Time

In this episode, David sits down with Rory Vaden, Business Strategy & Leadership Expert, Speaker, Author, And Entrepreneur, to discuss how you can multiply your time.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Rory’s Bio:
Rory Vaden, MBA, CSP, CPAE is the New York Times bestselling author of “Take the Stairs: 7 Steps to Achieving True Success” and “Procrastinate on Purpose: 5 Permissions to Multiply Your Time.” A recognized expert in business strategy and leadership, insights have been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, CNN, Entrepreneur, Inc, on Fox News national television and in several other major media outlets. As a world renowned speaker, his TEDx talk has been viewed over 4 million times, he is a 2x World Champion of Public Speaking Finalist, has been called one of the top 100 leadership speakers in the world by Inc Magazine and was recently inducted into the professional speaking Hall of Fame. He is the Co-Founder of Brand Builders Group and the host of the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.

Rory’s Links:
Website: https://www.roryvaden.com/
Blog: https://www.roryvaden.com/blog
“Procrastinate On Purpose” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3AEAGqp
“Take The Stairs” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3L5jm2H
Rory’s TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X7c9TUQJ8
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryvaden/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roryvaden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rorywvaden
Twitter: https://twitter.com/roryvaden
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/RoryVadenTV

Key Quotes:
1. “Time management isn’t just logical, it’s emotional.”
2. “What can I do right now to make tomorrow better?”
3. “There is a point of diminishing returns to prioritizing as a strategy.”
4. “There is nothing about prioritizing that creates more time.”
5. “You can’t solve today’s time management challenges using yesterday’s time management strategies.”
6. “Importance is a question of how much does something matter. Urgency is how soon does something matter. Significance is how long is this going to matter.”
7. “Spend time on things today that create more time tomorrow.”
8. “You have to embrace being ok with things being incomplete.”
9. “The next level of results requires the next level of thinking.”
10. “If you can’t get things done through other people, then your leadership can’t expand.”
11. “Anything great in the world requires a team.”
12. “Straight A students make bad entrepreneurs.”
13. “Success is never owned; it is only rented – and the rent is due every day.”
14. “Most results in life come from our routines.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Procrastinate On Purpose” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3AEAGqp
“Take The Stairs” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3L5jm2H
“The Trust Edge” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/3ADPPYZ
“Deep Work” by Cal Newport: https://amzn.to/3rcmtxS
“Essentialism” by Greg McKeown: https://amzn.to/3g5SnWb
“The One Thing” by Jay Papasan and Gary Keller: https://amzn.to/3g7efR9
Rory’s TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X7c9TUQJ8

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsager and I have a dear

[david_horsager]: friend with me today. he is New York Time’s best selling author of Take the

[david_horsager]: Stairs. He is a hall of fame speaker, Co founder of Brand Builder Group. He’ also an

[david_horsager]: adjunct

[david_horsager]: entreprenure entrepreneurship editor at Success Magazine And he’s a love. your

[david_horsager]: family. Welcome, Rory.

[rory_vaden]: Hedy, good to be here.

[david_horsager]: It’s great to have you, And you have you know? Since we’ve known each other,

[david_horsager]: you’ve grown up a company massively and moved from there and built another

[david_horsager]: company called Brand Builders Group. We’ going to talk about your newest

[david_horsager]: research

[david_horsager]: soon with your co founder, but today I, I want to back up a little bit.

[david_horsager]: first of all, Just like for people that don’t know Rory Baton gives a

[david_horsager]: little. you know snapshot behind something we don’t know.

[rory_vaden]: Oh yeah, well, um, you know I, I was raised by a single mom, Uh, who sold Mary

[rory_vaden]: Ky cosmetics, And that’s an important part of my story. and Um, I’ve always just

[rory_vaden]: been fascinated by the psychology of influence. And why do some people have

[rory_vaden]: influence and others down? And and we grew up? I was born in a trailer park in

[rory_vaden]: in Colorado, and Um, we just never had much. but my mom sold Mary Kay cosmetics.

[rory_vaden]: And so I grew up around women who are always like teaching me the principles of

[rory_vaden]: success.

[rory_vaden]: Um,

[rory_vaden]: and I means, I also know more about makeup than I do about cars. Uh, which is a

[rory_vaden]: true story, and I just have have been kind of infatuated with that. And when I

[rory_vaden]: went to Um college, I, I spent some time in my summers in college, going door to

[rory_vaden]: door fourteen hours a day, six days a week. I learned about Um, one on one, like

[rory_vaden]: influencing another person there, and I would say I’d actually say You know the

[rory_vaden]: way I think about influence days. I sort of divided up into four levels, so when

[rory_vaden]: I was in Uh, high school, and when I was young, I learned about level one which

[rory_vaden]: was influencing myself, and I became a first degree black belt when I was ten

[rory_vaden]: years old, and I was the youngest black belt in Colorado to ever get beaten up

[rory_vaden]: by a girl. Um, which is true story, but uh, I, you know, I studied really hard.

[rory_vaden]: I was vaectorian, Uh, got a full ride scholarship. That was how I was able to

[rory_vaden]: afford college, and then when I was in college, I got involved in direct sales,

[rory_vaden]: and Um, and so I learned you know, knocking on doors level two influence, which

[rory_vaden]: is I. I consider influencing one other person.

[rory_vaden]: And then I became a recruiter in that company and I was. I was recruiting a team

[rory_vaden]: and so by the time I left college, I was in. I was involved in what I consider

[rory_vaden]: level three leadership, which is leading or influencing a group of people. Um. I

[rory_vaden]: had about fifty seven people who I had recruited when I was in college, And

[rory_vaden]: then, as you mentioned, my Um, my wife and I started a company in two thousand

[rory_vaden]: six with four people. We scaled it to two two hundred people. It was an eight

[rory_vaden]: figure business. We exited that in twenty eighteen, and over the course of that

[rory_vaden]: time we had learned a lot about Um, public speaking and writing, and Um building

[rory_vaden]: online followings and and creating movements. And we consider that level four

[rory_vaden]: influence which is leading a leading a community. So you have leading yourself,

[rory_vaden]: which would be my first two books To Take the stairs, and and and procrastinate

[rory_vaden]: on purpose, leading another, per, or influencing another person, which is sales,

[rory_vaden]: influencing a team, which is leadership. And then now we’re spending a lot of

[rory_vaden]: time teaching people and helping them influence an entire community. Uh, which

[rory_vaden]: is Brainuilders Group.

[david_horsager]: Love it. well, we’re going to jump all around here and it’s okay and I, I

[david_horsager]: think I’m so proud of you how you lead your family too, And tell tell us

[david_horsager]: about that family of your Is those kiddos and and your wife a ▁j, real

[david_horsager]: quick.

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, so we, um, we have a four year old named Jasper, a two two year old named

[rory_vaden]: Lim, Um. Jasper is kind and compassionate and empathetic. He’s he is likely to

[rory_vaden]: you know, work in the either the medical profession or a service industry, or he

[rory_vaden]: might have seventeen children. Um. Lim. our two year old is A, is a fraternity

[rory_vaden]: boy trapped in a toddler’s body. Um. he is a wrecking ball and there is nothing

[rory_vaden]: he won’t jump off of or eat or throw. Um. And he, he lives full throttle, And so

[rory_vaden]: the last few years have been crazy because we exited a company. How to St. Ha,

[rory_vaden]: had a baby had to start up. Um, hit covet, had another baby. So it’s it’s It’s

[rory_vaden]: been a. It’s been a while ride. but um,

[rory_vaden]: that’s uh. that’s our little. That’s our creative over here to Vaden Villa,

[david_horsager]: Well, I’m proud of not just who you are, but how you’ve done that and it’s

[david_horsager]: been fun to see and navigate. Uh, you know, leading well at home, trying to

[david_horsager]: lead yourself

[david_horsager]: and and leing this new company and seeing it thrive in the midst of amazing

[david_horsager]: challenges. Um, so really excited about that. Let’s Ste. step back for a

[david_horsager]: moment and and look at, you know, Take take the stairs a lot there about

[david_horsager]: discipline. It’s certainly who you are, but I want to bump up to Uh, this

[david_horsager]: multiplier time idea and

[rory_vaden]: H,

[david_horsager]: that book was really good for me. pop, uh, procrastinate on purpose. How to

[david_horsager]: multiply your time. I think this is still so relevant for everybody. even

[david_horsager]: even though it seems impossible you can’t boil by time Right. Well, we’ll

[david_horsager]: talk about that, but

[rory_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: I think Um, we’re going to talk about that very soon. We have a ▁j. Aj, and

[david_horsager]: you on will talk about the newest research by brand builders and everything

[david_horsager]: around that that has all to do with trust and building trust. also, but I

[david_horsager]: know if we’re going to be trusted, One of the pills we talk about

[david_horsager]: contribution. we got to get results, and one of those, one of the ways we do

[david_horsager]: that is we use our time well, So I, I just think I got to jump into the very

[david_horsager]: first sentence in the book.

[david_horsager]: You say this. Everything you know about time management is wrong.

[david_horsager]: What you mean?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, y. yeah. well, so here’s what happened, Dave. So, when you know to the

[rory_vaden]: topic of what we’re just talking about

[rory_vaden]: during our first company, we started to grow really fast, and once we got to

[rory_vaden]: where we had like thirty forty people, it was really getting crazy and I was

[rory_vaden]: working a lot of hours and I was trying to like. I wasn’t. I never planned on

[rory_vaden]: writing a book to to solve the world’s problems around like time. I was just

[rory_vaden]: trying to like learn some stuff to help me breathe, because

[rory_vaden]: theoretically we should know more about time management today than ever before.

[rory_vaden]: There are more books on the subject. Um, there are more productivity experts.

[rory_vaden]: There’s more courses

[rory_vaden]: and and yet I, we, also, by the way, have more tools and technology to help us

[rory_vaden]: calendar and organize stuff, and find things and automate things or whatever,

[rory_vaden]: And in reality, when I look around most leaders today, I think, feel more busy,

[rory_vaden]: more buried more behind, more stressed, more overwhelmed. almost, in some cases

[rory_vaden]: to the point of of, like an exhaustion, and even hopelessness of this idea.

[rory_vaden]: That, like will I ever be able to get ahead? Like will I ever catch a second to

[rory_vaden]: breathe. And so that right there kind of is what spoke to me originally. Even

[rory_vaden]: though we never thought we would write a book on the subject, it was like

[rory_vaden]: something is missing here like we somehow. Even though we have all this content

[rory_vaden]: in the world about productivity, it’s not working.

[david_horsager]: Mhm?

[rory_vaden]: And what happened was I was at a colleague’s house on a Saturday morning. We had

[rory_vaden]: a work meeting and I was over there picking him up and he has this little, this

[rory_vaden]: little girl, his little baby girl that that lives with him, And so we’re

[rory_vaden]: sneaking out of the house and she hears him. It’s like early in the morning and

[rory_vaden]: she runs out of bed and she runs down the hallway and she grabs his leg as we’re

[rory_vaden]: trying to leave,

[rory_vaden]: and and she looks up at him and she says You know Daddy. Where are we going

[rory_vaden]: and he says, Oh, I’m sorry, baby Daddy actually has to go to work today.

[rory_vaden]: Well,

[rory_vaden]: her little eyes turned to tears

[rory_vaden]: and she says

[rory_vaden]: no, daddy, please. no work.

[rory_vaden]: no more work, Daddy.

[rory_vaden]: and in that moment it dawned on me Dave, that everything I had ever learned

[rory_vaden]: about time management was all about tips and tricks. tools and technology,

[rory_vaden]: calendars and checklists. It was ways of organizing things. Um. In other words,

[rory_vaden]: it was all logical, and in that moment I realized that today time management

[rory_vaden]: isn’t just logical, it’s emotional and it is our feelings of guilt and fear and

[rory_vaden]: worry anxiety. it, it is our desire to feel successful and valued and important,

[rory_vaden]: as well as our fear of failing and letting people down. Um, it is guilt and

[rory_vaden]: obligation. There are these emotions that actually dictate what we end up doing

[rory_vaden]: with our time, as much as anything that is honoured to do Lister in our

[rory_vaden]: calendar, And yet

[rory_vaden]: nobody or nobody that I’d ever met had ever been trained on the emotional side

[rory_vaden]: of time management. And so that’s where we started digging in was going. What

[rory_vaden]: are the underlying emotions that are going on? Um, and that set us on a

[rory_vaden]: completely different trajectory? Um, And And, and we really uncovered a couple

[rory_vaden]: of really really big differences which end up becom my Ted talking. The Ted talk

[rory_vaden]: went viral. The book didn’t

[david_horsager]: over three million views.

[rory_vaden]: yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s There’s a ton of use. So they, but the the book

[rory_vaden]: doesn’t took. the book, Ironically doesn’t sell that well. Uh, it’s a lesson

[rory_vaden]: that we teach our brandbuilder group clients. Is that we titled it poorly if we

[rory_vaden]: would have called the book How to multiply time, which is what the book is

[rory_vaden]: really about? And that’s what we called the talk? Um. We would have done better

[rory_vaden]: because it’s clear about what it is. Procrastinating on purpose. is a kind of a

[rory_vaden]: confusing title. Uh, you know, looking after the fact, but that is the

[rory_vaden]: conversation And, and it led us to figure out how it is literally possible to

[rory_vaden]: multiply time.

[david_horsager]: Well, we talk about trust here, and that doesn’t sound like a very

[david_horsager]: trustworthy statement unless you, God. multiplying times seems like a pretty

[david_horsager]: big ask. But I read the book and I do like. actually, the idea of the

[david_horsager]: fundamental of what we’re going to get to procrastinating on purposes is is

[david_horsager]: right on. But let’s talk about this when. for thosekeeptics that are

[david_horsager]: listensting today, trust the leaders that are say, come on, you can’t

[david_horsager]: multiply time,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, so I get that, Um, And and you know I think people typically when I say

[rory_vaden]: it’s you know, I’m go to teach how to multiply time. People typically have two

[rory_vaden]: responses. The first one is either no way that’s crazy. It’s impossible or the

[rory_vaden]: other. The the the other one is, they’ll say. Oh, that’s just my marketing.

[rory_vaden]: hyperbly. You’re exaggerating it. Y. you know, it’s like a superlative and it is

[rory_vaden]: neither of those things. Uh, we literally figured out how to multiply tide. And

[rory_vaden]: so here’s how this is is possible.

[rory_vaden]: Now

[rory_vaden]: it is true that there is nothing that that I can teach you that will create more

[rory_vaden]: time inside of one day. We all have the same twenty four hours, which is

[rory_vaden]: fourteen hundred and forty minutes, or eighty six thousand, four hundred

[rory_vaden]: seconds. But that’s exactly the problem most people wake up, and they say what’s

[rory_vaden]: the most important thing I have to do to day. But that’s not how multipliers

[rory_vaden]: think. What we discovered is that there’s this new type of thinker that is

[rory_vaden]: emerged. That, Um, we refer to it as a multiplier and a multiplier.

[rory_vaden]: Um processes decisions completely differently, so they don’t ask themselves.

[rory_vaden]: what’s the most important thing I can do to today. The way that multipliers

[rory_vaden]: think is they asked themselves. What are the things that I can do right now that

[rory_vaden]: make to morrow better? What are the things I can do to day That make to morrow

[rory_vaden]: easier. And this is how? Uh, This is something that we now call the significance

[rory_vaden]: calculation. And of course, the late great Doctor Cvey, Um, wrote a book in

[rory_vaden]: Nineteen Eighty Nine that changed the world. Seven habits, highly affected

[rory_vaden]: people. I know, you’ve all heard of it, sold millions of copies and he

[rory_vaden]: introduced, you know. Ar. One time, management thinking was just very one

[rory_vaden]: dimensional. It was about efficiency and doing things faster, but Doctor Cvy

[rory_vaden]: brought us into what we referr to as Erra too, thinking, because he introduced

[rory_vaden]: this framework called the time management matrix, where the Y acces is

[rory_vaden]: importance in the ex excess’ ▁urgency, You probably seen it, Um. and it was

[rory_vaden]: really too dimensional and he taught us prioritizing, And so that book kind of

[rory_vaden]: single handedly ushered in the era of prioritizing, which was to focus first on

[rory_vaden]: what matters most,

[rory_vaden]: which is still good. Its prioritizing is still good, as is efficiency, but there

[rory_vaden]: is a point of diminishing returns to prioritizing as a strategy, which is which

[rory_vaden]: is this. There is nothing about prioritizing that creates more time. All

[rory_vaden]: prioritizing does is reshuffle things. It’s more like borrowing time. It’s

[rory_vaden]: saying okay, I’ll take itom number seven on my to do listen, and I’ll bump it up

[rory_vaden]: to number one, which is valuable, but it doesn’t inherently create time, and it

[rory_vaden]: doesn’t help us resolve the other items that remain on our to do list, Which is

[rory_vaden]: why so many leaders are busy, buried and overwhelmed you. And and by the way

[rory_vaden]: that book was written in the year Nineteen Eighty Nine, think about the world in

[rory_vaden]: Nineteen eighty nine. there’s no cellphones. There’s no social media. there’s no

[rory_vaden]: internet like the world is radically different, and you you you can’t solve to

[rory_vaden]: day’s time management challenges using yesterday’s time management strategies. I

[rory_vaden]: mean the world has changed. So what we noticed was as we were profiling these

[rory_vaden]: ▁ultra performers. We call them ▁ultra performers and take the stairs. And then

[rory_vaden]: we kind of went back to a lot of them and said Hey, what are your philosophies

[rory_vaden]: about time? These top one percenters, they were making a new calculation which

[rory_vaden]: we referred to as the significance calculation. So, while Doctor Cvey changed

[rory_vaden]: the world with importance and ▁urgency, which are still relevant, these

[rory_vaden]: multipliers had evolved to making a third calculation, which, if you were

[rory_vaden]: looking at it visually, it would take what what Doctor Cvey had as a square, and

[rory_vaden]: it would turn it into a cube. The significance calculation becomes the ▁z axis.

[rory_vaden]: If you can think back to you know high school algebra and it makes it three

[rory_vaden]: dimensional well.

[rory_vaden]: in literal terms, what does that mean? The significance calculation is simply

[rory_vaden]: thinking about to morrow and the next day and the next day. So

[rory_vaden]: importance is

[rory_vaden]: a question of how much does something matter?

[rory_vaden]: ▁urgency is how soon does something matter? But significance is different.

[rory_vaden]: Significance is how long is this going to matter,

[rory_vaden]: and this brings us to how it is possible in one sentence to multiply time. You

[rory_vaden]: multiply time

[rory_vaden]: by giving yourself the emotional permission to spend time on things to day

[rory_vaden]: that create more time to morrow.

[rory_vaden]: Spend time on things to today that create more time to morrow. There are certain

[rory_vaden]: things, Uh, and we bucketed them. Basically, there’s five We, we think, there’s

[rory_vaden]: more or less only five different categories of things that multiply time. Uh, we

[rory_vaden]: talk about the focus Funel. We can talk through him if you want, But there are

[rory_vaden]: there are certain things that you can do that don’t actually save you time to

[rory_vaden]: day. They actually cost you time to day.

[rory_vaden]: But there are certain things you can do to day that will create more time to

[rory_vaden]: morrow. And and it is that significance calculation that long term thinking of

[rory_vaden]: the Ne, the future, tomorrow, the next day, the next day the next day, That

[rory_vaden]: changes everything. But but here’s the problem, Dave is that

[rory_vaden]: absent

[rory_vaden]: a conscious decision to focus on the significance, calculation,

[rory_vaden]: leaders

[rory_vaden]: inadvertently almost always default to the ▁urgency calculation, we constantly

[rory_vaden]: fall victim to what Charles Uh

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: Hummel called in Nineteen sixty Nine, the tyranny of the ▁urgent. We are falling

[rory_vaden]: victim to whatever is latest and loudest. Most of us have our in boox organized

[rory_vaden]: not by what is most significant, but what is at the top of our inbox is what is

[rory_vaden]: most recent, and that is reflective of a mentality in a, in a mode of operating,

[rory_vaden]: which is, we’re constantly reactive and we’re not strategic about selecting the

[rory_vaden]: right activities because we live in a world absent the significance calculation.

[rory_vaden]: and

[david_horsager]: so let’s stop for one second here.

[rory_vaden]: yeah, go ahead.

[david_horsager]: I want to save this other because you said, but how soon it will matter Is

[david_horsager]: the question for ▁urgency.

[rory_vaden]: Yes,

[david_horsager]: The question for importance is

[rory_vaden]: how long does it matter like?

[david_horsager]: no. That’s the significance.

[rory_vaden]: Oh, sorry, importance is how much does it matter

[david_horsager]: How much

[rory_vaden]: now, Get not get this. So importance is the Y axis and Covey’s model

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[rory_vaden]: right, And so uh, part of what we’re doing is really just adding to Coovey’s

[rory_vaden]: model, just by adding that ▁zik that ▁z

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[rory_vaden]: accis calculation. So both ▁urgency and significance are components of the

[rory_vaden]: importance calculation. But if the significance calculation is invisible or

[rory_vaden]: unconscious, then we default to what is visible and conscious, which is the

[rory_vaden]: thing right in front of our face, which we actually coined the term for that.

[rory_vaden]: Intake the stairs. So so so My first book Take the stairs was really about the

[rory_vaden]: psychology of overcoming procrastination, And it was a very like the reason.

[rory_vaden]: Take the Stairs sell so many copies. Iscause. It applies to everybody in the

[rory_vaden]: world, and companies will like Bi. It for every employe’s like it. It’s kind of

[rory_vaden]: like Trust edge. It applies to everybody, and that is how to build discipline to

[rory_vaden]: overcome procrastination. But there was one little section and take the stairs,

[rory_vaden]: where we talked about the three types of procrastination, one of which we

[rory_vaden]: invented this phrase, priority dilution and we said priority dilution is an

[rory_vaden]: emerging form of procrastination that we’re noticing in leaders, and it’s ironic

[rory_vaden]: because we’re noticing it in the very types of people who you wouldn’t consider

[rory_vaden]: to be procrastinators. In fact, they’re very much the opposite. They’re the

[rory_vaden]: chronic over retievers, the dogoters, the checkliisters, the task masters,

[rory_vaden]: they’re they’re the entrepreneurs, the executives, but as their star rises, and

[rory_vaden]: as their pur view grow, and this was reflective of my life Back in those days,

[rory_vaden]: Um, they have more and more on their plate and their priorities dilute and so,

[rory_vaden]: even though they’re not lazy or apathetic or disengaged like a classic

[rory_vaden]: procrastinator, they do have the same net result, which is at the end of the

[rory_vaden]: day, their most significant priorities are left incomplete. Not because they’

[rory_vaden]: are lazy, because they allowed their attention to shift to less important, but

[rory_vaden]: perhaps more. ▁urgent things I priority dilution, which is what set the stage

[rory_vaden]: for the second book and how to multiply time with the significance calculation.

[david_horsager]: let’s get through these really quick.

[david_horsager]: Just just kind to have the overview. The five permissions, because I think

[david_horsager]: it’s important because I think people are sitting here saying yes. That’s

[david_horsager]: me. Yes, I do a whole lot, but not the most important things. right. Yes,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: but how can I get out of the wheel? I’ve got this people come to meet for

[david_horsager]: this people coming down the Ceo. Im the senior leader. I,

[rory_vaden]: yeah,

[david_horsager]: How do I actually break out of that and maybe at least is a framework. We

[david_horsager]: could quickly go through the five decisions or permission.

[rory_vaden]: totally. so let’s let’s do it ill. I’ll give you the overview and then we can

[rory_vaden]: dive up. my. Uh, there’s a good chance that delegate for your audiences probably

[rory_vaden]: like where the magic is. So I, if we were going to dive in on one there it would

[rory_vaden]: probably be automat or delegate. But so all right, so we actually call this This

[rory_vaden]: is a framework. So we call this the focus Funel. Um, and by the way, you can

[rory_vaden]: watch my Ted talk to and

[david_horsager]: Y,

[rory_vaden]: it shows this Pi picture you could buy the book. Um, but the the Tet Talkck is

[rory_vaden]: free. But the, If you picture a funnel where just all of your stuff to do is

[rory_vaden]: coming in the top right, it could be text messages and your in boox, and sticky

[rory_vaden]: notes. And just like all the stuff there is to do,

[rory_vaden]: the sequence is important and there is A is a sequential set of thinking. Uh,

[rory_vaden]: that multipliers go through, and their first question is eliminate.

[rory_vaden]: So the the first of the five permissions is what we call the permission to

[rory_vaden]: ignore, which is the permission to eliminate

[rory_vaden]: anything that I say no to today,

[rory_vaden]: multiplies time tomorrow. because it prevents me from doing something that I

[rory_vaden]: would have otherwise been doing. So it creates time tomorrow. Spend time on

[rory_vaden]: things today that create more time tomorrow by spending time figuring out what

[rory_vaden]: you can say no to That is the widest swath of opportunity for an individual and

[rory_vaden]: an entire company. By the way, in both of our companies, the one that we exited,

[rory_vaden]: and in our current company we have had to shut down entire divisions in order to

[rory_vaden]: multiply and go all in on the on the one thing. So anyway, so that’s eliminate.

[rory_vaden]: If a task can’t be eliminated, then it drops into the middle of the focus

[rory_vaden]: funnel, which is automate automat, Is we call it the permission to invest, Um,

[rory_vaden]: because it is the permission to invest the time and the money to set up a system

[rory_vaden]: or a process to today. Because anything you create a process for today will save

[rory_vaden]: you time tomorrow. Um.

[rory_vaden]: Now, the irony is you, we think. Oh, I don’t have time to do that, but that and

[rory_vaden]: that is always true. Absent the significance calculation. you never have time to

[rory_vaden]: build a process today. but when you make the significance calculation you

[rory_vaden]: realize. Oh, that’s actually the exact opposite Until I create a process for it.

[rory_vaden]: I will continually imprison myself to having to do this myself. Um, because I

[rory_vaden]: haven’t created a process for someone else to follow to To do the thing. If you

[rory_vaden]: can’t automate it, Um, then it drops down to delegate,

[rory_vaden]: Um, which is the permission of imperfect and permission of imperfection, So we

[rory_vaden]: can probably

[david_horsager]: Hm.

[rory_vaden]: talk about Wh. Why that is Um. But delegating has a lot more to do with your

[rory_vaden]: emotional, Um, Some some underlying emotions going on, Um

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[rory_vaden]: than anything.

[rory_vaden]: Um. Now, if it can’t be eliminated, automated or delegated, then that task falls

[rory_vaden]: through out the bottom of the focus funnel, and at that point there’s one

[rory_vaden]: remaining question, which is must this task be done right now? Which is

[rory_vaden]: concentrate. The permission to protect, Um, which is all about focus, And I

[rory_vaden]: would say that’s actually what the Take the stairs book is about is about how to

[rory_vaden]: protect your focus from creative avoidance, and do the thing you know you should

[rory_vaden]: be doing, even when you don’t feel like doing it. That’s to takes the stairs

[rory_vaden]: book. There’s some other great books. Uh. I would say Cal Newport’s book Deep

[rory_vaden]: Work, Gregncuan’s essentialism

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: Uh, ▁j, popasana, Gary colors the one thing. all of those books kind of ▁zone in

[rory_vaden]: on that. So to me that part wasn’t that fascinating. Um, Um, there’s because

[rory_vaden]: there’s a lot of books that talk about focus. Um, still really difficult to do.

[rory_vaden]: but, but the fascinating part was

[rory_vaden]: If the answer to the question, must this task be done now is no,

[rory_vaden]: Then it can wait until later. Then that is where we’re in encouraging you and

[rory_vaden]: inviting you, and challenging you to not eliminate automate, delegate, or

[rory_vaden]: concentrate, but to procrastinate on purpose, which is where the title of the

[rory_vaden]: book comes from. We call it the Permission of incomplete. It is actually

[rory_vaden]: a very big struggle that a necessary one that you have to embrace being okay

[rory_vaden]: with things being incomplete, because by allowing certain things to deliberately

[rory_vaden]: sit as incomplete, that is what creates the margin for you to reallocate your

[rory_vaden]: time into the things that will truly multiply time. the things that are really

[rory_vaden]: significant, Um in that great time tomorrow, So, um, Now, if you’re going to pr,

[rory_vaden]: you’re going to procrastinating on purpose, you don’t procrastinate on it

[rory_vaden]: forever. You pop, you use that. We, we call it Pop, You pop that activity back

[rory_vaden]: to the top of the focus Funel, And so what happens is that activity enters into

[rory_vaden]: a holding pattern where it’s just cycling through the focus Funel, until at one

[rory_vaden]: point sooner or later one of the other four things will happen. You’ll either

[rory_vaden]: eliminate it, automatated, delegate, or the question. Can this wait until later

[rory_vaden]: will change from? Yes, it can, to know it cannot, and then it will slide down

[rory_vaden]: and to concentrate and you’ll do it and you’ll complete the activity. So that’s

[rory_vaden]: the high level. I mean, that’s like the whole book in three minutes. Um.

[david_horsager]: Yeah, so let’s let’s say number one, you can go see the tad, talk like over

[david_horsager]: three million other people. You can get the book Pop and

[david_horsager]: progresse pop, or how to multiply your time, but let’s just talk about a

[david_horsager]: couple of things here because I know there’s a whole lot more we can talk

[david_horsager]: about. I’d love to talk. We’re just going have to have you come back. Talk

[david_horsager]: about building your businesses and all that, but

[rory_vaden]: yeah, yeah,

[david_horsager]: let’s talk about one problem I think we have and that is that delegate. We

[david_horsager]: talked about this before.

[david_horsager]: I think there’s a big challenge of leaders. leaders like me that really

[david_horsager]: believe in high quality high

[david_horsager]: calibre like you, built your business on high quality, and so

[rory_vaden]: yep, yep.

[rory_vaden]: yeah.

[david_horsager]: letting it go certain ways or certain places, its challenging. What are a

[david_horsager]: couple

[rory_vaden]: y.

[david_horsager]: things we can think about?

[rory_vaden]: okay. Okay. So so and let’s tackle this two ways? So if I, if you, if you as the

[rory_vaden]: average leader, whether they were a small business owner or fortune, one hundred

[rory_vaden]: C, E, O, right, and you said, Are there things that you’re doing every day

[rory_vaden]: that you know could be done by someone else?

[rory_vaden]: almost all of us would say yes. And then if you ask them, say Okay, Well, why

[rory_vaden]: haven’t you done it? They would typically say one of two things. They would

[rory_vaden]: either say it’s just faster for me to do it myself,

[rory_vaden]: or they would say because no one can do it as well as I can.

[rory_vaden]: So those are typically the two emotional Bel. These these beliefs that we have

[rory_vaden]: that prevent us from delegating, So let’s just tackle each of them independently

[rory_vaden]: for a second. So I first want to look at the one that says It’s It’s faster for

[rory_vaden]: me to do it myself and I want to introduce a technique here. Um. so this

[rory_vaden]: technique is called the thirty ▁x rule.

[rory_vaden]: Um, and uh, you know, it’s a little bit of math, but not much. so. if you’re

[rory_vaden]: reading along, it’s easier to follow. but I’ll I’ll try to keep it. you know,

[rory_vaden]: simple for you just to do in your mind, Okay, So the thirty ▁x role is all about

[rory_vaden]: the significance calculation and it’s a. it’s a. it’s a. it’s a. It’s a

[rory_vaden]: practical expression of significant calculation, so the th ▁x will suggest that

[rory_vaden]: you should consider spending thirty times the amount of time it takes you to do

[rory_vaden]: a task once

[rory_vaden]: on training someone one else to do that task for you.

[rory_vaden]: All right, So give an example. Let’s say you have a task that takes you five

[rory_vaden]: minutes a day to complete.

[rory_vaden]: The thirty ▁x. rules suggest that you should consider spending a hundred and

[rory_vaden]: fifty minutes, So thirty ▁x, thirty times five hundred and fifty minutes,

[rory_vaden]: training someone to do that task and dayve. This is where I lose people because

[rory_vaden]: they say they literally. I’ve had people look at me, Gorori. That is the dumbest

[rory_vaden]: thing I have ever heard Like Why in the world would I spend a hundred and fifty

[rory_vaden]: minutes? That’s like two and a half hours.

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: Why in the world would I spend two and a half hours training somebody to do

[rory_vaden]: something that? could? I could just do myself in five minutes. That doesn’t make

[rory_vaden]: any sense, And and my answer is you’re right. It doesn’t make sense unless you

[rory_vaden]: make the significance calculation. Absent the significance calculation, we live

[rory_vaden]: in a world of ▁urgency, in the world of ▁urgency. It’s always one day paradigm.

[rory_vaden]: It never makes sense to trade two and a half hours for five minutes. That never

[rory_vaden]: makes sense. But when you make the significance calculation, everything changes

[rory_vaden]: so let’s do that. And if you just look at one year worth of time, so to keep the

[rory_vaden]: math easy, there’s about two hundred and fifty working days in a year, two

[rory_vaden]: hundred and three and sixty five days a year, about two hundred and fifty

[rory_vaden]: working days.

[rory_vaden]: If that task takes you five minutes a day to complete,

[rory_vaden]: it doesn’t actually take you five minutes. Over the course of a year. It takes

[rory_vaden]: you twelve hundred and fifty minutes, five times two hundred and fifty. you’re

[rory_vaden]: doing it every day Now. If you looked out over your whole career, it would take

[rory_vaden]: even longer than that. but you, maybe it’s not every day or whatever, So let’s

[rory_vaden]: just say it’s twelve hundred and fifty minutes. Now. the calculation looks a

[rory_vaden]: little bit different, right. It’s not. should we spend a hundred and fifty men.

[rory_vaden]: To say five. It should we spend a hundred and fifty minutes to save twelve

[rory_vaden]: hundred and fifty minutes.

[rory_vaden]: The answer is just as obvious as what we as what it was before. but it’s the

[rory_vaden]: complete opposite of what we originally thought,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: And here’s what’s crazy Dave. Like

[rory_vaden]: Notice, the task hasn’t changed.

[rory_vaden]: The the person hasn’t changed. Like the only thing that has changed is the

[rory_vaden]: leader’s thinking, And this is always necessary because the next level of

[rory_vaden]: results requires the next level of thinking. Um,

[rory_vaden]: this is a huge return. Like if I told you financially, I have a guaranteed

[rory_vaden]: investment that could guarantee you a seven hundred and thirty three percent

[rory_vaden]: return. You wouldn’t even believe me, you, would you? Would you would say that’s

[rory_vaden]: so unrealistic It’s impossible. I don’t even want to look at that investment

[rory_vaden]: because it’s like anything north of twenty percent would like. pretty much just

[rory_vaden]: be outrageous. But if you evaluate this use of time the same way that you would

[rory_vaden]: evaluate a financial investment, I invested a hundred and fifty minutes in.

[rory_vaden]: Now, your net gain isn’t actually twelve fifty, ’cause you got to subtract the

[rory_vaden]: one fifty you put in, so

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: your net gains eleven hundred. So I, I invested one fifty. I got eleven hundred

[rory_vaden]: back. That is a seven hundred and thirty three per cent. and here’s a a new term

[rory_vaden]: for you, R o t. I return on time.

[rory_vaden]: Invest it. We believe the next generation of cost savings is gonna be much more

[rory_vaden]: focused on saving time than it is on saving money, Because the most expensive

[rory_vaden]: cost on a pan ▁ is the people. It’s the salaries. It’s the hour is. It’s not

[rory_vaden]: that we’re overspending on where we buy our pens and our paper clips from. it’s

[rory_vaden]: that it’s that any one hour of wasted time for an individual is massive. M. It’s

[rory_vaden]: it’s it’s gargantuin comparatively, and yet we never look at that on a pianel.

[rory_vaden]: There’s no no way to measure wasted cost of our people’s time, so

[rory_vaden]: it’s never faster to do it yourself when you make the significant calculation.

[rory_vaden]: Never is. but

[rory_vaden]: that points to the real reason we don’t delegate is not because of that. It’s

[rory_vaden]: really the emotional issue of Well, no one will be able to do it as well as I

[rory_vaden]: can, and this is the crux of the issue because you got to where you are

[rory_vaden]: by demanding perfection. You got to where you are by doing things with

[rory_vaden]: excellence. You got to where you are by caring and doing things perfectly and

[rory_vaden]: going the extra mile. That’s how you became the leader. Here’s what’s insane and

[rory_vaden]: really a difficult switch. To make.

[rory_vaden]: What got you here is a leader won’t get you, or what got you here is a performer

[rory_vaden]: won’t get you there as a leader.

[rory_vaden]: What got you here as a performer won’t get you there as a leader. And and and

[rory_vaden]: Um, Andy Stanley has the best ▁quote. about this. he says You got to remember

[rory_vaden]: that leadership isn’t about getting things done right.

[rory_vaden]: Leadership is about getting things done through other people.

[rory_vaden]: If you can’t get things done through other people than your leadership, can’t

[rory_vaden]: expand your influence, Can’t expand. You

[rory_vaden]: are throttling your impact to only what you are available to touch directly, and

[rory_vaden]: there is a limit on that

[rory_vaden]: anything great in the world requires a team. It requires a movement of people,

[rory_vaden]: and so the limiting belief that we all have, which it starts as a very healthy

[rory_vaden]: thing, Right like it’s you know. This is one of the reasons why I, i, I, um, I

[rory_vaden]: think that straight A students, which I was Rado’s Victorian, like straight a

[rory_vaden]: students make bad entrepreneurs. I. This is an article I’ve wanted to write for

[rory_vaden]: a long time straight. A students make bad entrepreneurs. Why? Because the world

[rory_vaden]: isn’t full of a students, the world is full of C students. By definition, And

[rory_vaden]: what makes you an A student’s demanding perfection? Well, when you’re trying to

[rory_vaden]: lead a bunch of C students, they don’t care as much as you care. they’re not as

[rory_vaden]: driven. They’re not going to work the extra hours. Maybe some of them might,

[rory_vaden]: but, but for the most part they’re not. But but here’s here’s here’s the magic,

[rory_vaden]: and this is where it trus up.

[rory_vaden]: so as a leader

[rory_vaden]: you think to yourself they won’t be able to do it as well as I can.

[rory_vaden]: And you’re right. That is true,

[rory_vaden]: once,

[rory_vaden]: maybe twice, maybe three times, maybe five times, maybe ten times.

[rory_vaden]: But even a de minus student

[rory_vaden]: over the course of time, if they’re only doing one thing or fewer things, they

[rory_vaden]: will be able to do that thing as well as you, and probably better than you

[rory_vaden]: could. because they don’t have as much priority dilution. They don’t have as

[rory_vaden]: many things pulling on them. So we call this the Permission of imperfect, But it

[rory_vaden]: is not saying that you need to compromise your standards. It’s not saying that

[rory_vaden]: you should compromise quality. It’s saying that you should make the significance

[rory_vaden]: calculation, and there should be a season of grace. There should be an allowance

[rory_vaden]: for a learning period. there should be a temporary, uh, relaxation of your

[rory_vaden]: standards

[rory_vaden]: for the, for the purpose of the the payoff of the long term of being able to

[rory_vaden]: multiply your impact overa Um. Now you can supplement it with the things that we

[rory_vaden]: teach an automate, which is you know, standardizing the processes and automating

[rory_vaden]: as much as possible along the way, but this it is this, this, this emotional. I

[rory_vaden]: have to do. otherwise it won’t be done right. That is true once. but that’s

[rory_vaden]: ▁urgency. Over long term, you, you gotta break free of that. Otherwise you’re

[rory_vaden]: just going to imprison yourself to a lifelong sentence of doing everything

[rory_vaden]: yourself

[david_horsager]: this is truth for me. Still as you can imagine why it hit me over the head

[david_horsager]: right. Oh, my goodness, you’ve given us so much, But this is something to

[david_horsager]: think about this funnel eliminate. Can I eliminate it or nor can I automate

[david_horsager]: it. Can I delegate it then? If not, do I need to do it now. Then

[david_horsager]: concentrate. If not. I have permission to. uh, leave it incomplete.

[david_horsager]: Basically right,

[rory_vaden]: procrastinate on purpose, which is where the title the book comes from. is

[david_horsager]: yp,

[rory_vaden]: you know, Because to me that was the fascinating concept. It’s uh. It just

[rory_vaden]: didn’t make a good book title because it needs some explanation. The, you know,

[rory_vaden]: but the core is how do you multiply time? And and if you think about it, one way

[rory_vaden]: to do that is if I procrastinate on the trivial stuff, then

[david_horsager]: y,

[rory_vaden]: now I have the margin of time I was going to spend on that to invest. It’s just

[rory_vaden]: like

[rory_vaden]: the the way that wealthy people invest money is exactly the same way that

[rory_vaden]: multipliers invest time. Like the way you you you find money to invest, right is

[rory_vaden]: it’s it’s it’s very rarely. Oh, I hit the lottery at of the jackpot and I got a

[rory_vaden]: bunch of money.

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[rory_vaden]: It’s It’s very much typically more of. well, let’s we’re not going to go on

[rory_vaden]: vacation. We’re not going to buy the nicer house. We’re not going to buy the

[rory_vaden]: brand new car. We’re not going to buy the big screen T. v, and I’m going to

[rory_vaden]: instead sacrifice that short term pleasure, and I’m goingnna take that and I’m

[rory_vaden]: going to reallocate it. I’m going to invest it, and it will grow over over time.

[rory_vaden]: Uh, in automate one of the things that we we talk about actually is that

[rory_vaden]: automation is to your time exactly as compounding interest is. Uh. uh, sorry,

[rory_vaden]: automation is to your time. what compounding interest is to your money.

[rory_vaden]: Automation takes time and turns it into more money. It’s It’s the same mentality

[rory_vaden]: of an of an investor.

[david_horsager]: Well speaking, a time or running out of it. But this is there so much here.

[david_horsager]: We can we go on. So weve got that. we’ve got the funel. We’ve got some

[david_horsager]: amazing things to think about. You have given us gold. I want to ask you a

[david_horsager]: couple of questions, because I I want to think, Get a little personal

[david_horsager]: because I see you. You know we’re on a we’re to mastermind leadership group

[david_horsager]: together. You’re just amazing human, so everybody can find more about what

[david_horsager]: we just talked about. and really

[david_horsager]: I, I would encourage everybody too, because we’re dealing in time and we

[david_horsager]: want to invest it wisely and multipli. But um, how are you leading yourself?

[david_horsager]: You know, you listen to your your c e o, your co founder you, you’re

[david_horsager]: influencing a whole lot of others. What are some of the things you arere

[david_horsager]: doing? Because I’m proud of your discipline. I remember four and a half

[david_horsager]: years you hadn’t missed. Um, you know a workout.

[rory_vaden]: Uh,

[david_horsager]: Uh, you know, but what are some of the things you’re doing to lead yourself

[david_horsager]: spiritually physically emotionally so you can lead others well,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, well, I really believe uh in in Take the stairs. So in my first book,

[rory_vaden]: probably the most popular ▁quote from that book, Uh, was something that I called

[rory_vaden]: the rent axiom, which is that success is never owned. It’s only rented and the

[rory_vaden]: rent is due everyda Um, you know, and we wrote that And it’s like Internet me

[rory_vaden]: now and all that stuff. And and in my life day, that’s what I just try to

[rory_vaden]: remember, And so there are things

[rory_vaden]: Uh, As an example.

[rory_vaden]: One of my big focus is is that every day when I wake up, the first thing through

[rory_vaden]: my head is thank you and it is thanking thanking God for whatever I can think of

[rory_vaden]: to be thankful for. Um, also, I want the very first words that I read every day

[rory_vaden]: to be scripture. I don’t want it to be a text. I don’t want to be in email. I

[rory_vaden]: don’t want it to be a news feed. I deliberately choose to control my attention

[rory_vaden]: so that the first words that enter my brain other than my own gratitude, Uh, is

[rory_vaden]: scripture, Uh, and then I, you know, So I get up at five fifteen. I got two

[rory_vaden]: toddlers right, so I have to get through all this before they get up. So um, you

[rory_vaden]: know I, I exercise every day. I only exercise for twelve minutes, but I do it

[rory_vaden]: every day. Um, the. uh, So a lot of it is these daily routines. You know I’ve

[rory_vaden]: I’ve That’s just something I found that most results in life come from our

[rory_vaden]: routines. Um,

[rory_vaden]: and so

[rory_vaden]: uh, I mean, I don’t drink alcohol. I, you know, there’s there’s a number of

[rory_vaden]: things Th. there’s a. there’s a great word, and this is not all I. this. The

[rory_vaden]: whole sounds kind of Christian stuff all all of a sudden, which I don’t mean it

[rory_vaden]: to be, But there is a. There’s a great word Um, called sanctification, which,

[rory_vaden]: which is a Biblical term, which means the gradual cleansing. Um. My life has

[rory_vaden]: been a series of gradual cleansing. Has been one indulgence that I tackled, and

[rory_vaden]: then another indulgence and then another indulgence in another indulgence. Um,

[rory_vaden]: of course having toddlers, I think I’ve been in a season of of

[rory_vaden]: realizing how self centered I was before children, and like that you being

[rory_vaden]: wrestled away and wrestled out of me of like wow, Um,

[david_horsager]: Nothing like kids to teach.

[rory_vaden]: So anyways day, daily disciplines, I, I would

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: say would be the You know, to tell you

[david_horsager]: I love it

[rory_vaden]: the short answer, be daily disciplines,

[david_horsager]: roines good routines too.

[rory_vaden]: routines routines, routines.

[david_horsager]: I’m going to ask you one final question before I do, Rory. A whole lot.

[david_horsager]: you’ve given us here today, and people can find the Ted talk. They can find

[david_horsager]: your websites that can find your books. But what’s the best place to find

[david_horsager]: out about you?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, I would just go to Roryvede and blog Dot. com. Um, We, That’s where you

[rory_vaden]: know. I do a free video every week, or you know I host a podca like. But if you

[rory_vaden]: just go to Royvade and blog Dot com. Uh, we’ve got a bunch of free trainings

[rory_vaden]: that are pretty in depth. Uh, several hours of them if you want on different

[rory_vaden]: topics. But yeah, so go to Roy Vaden Blog dot com and then from there you. Well,

[rory_vaden]: you know you have a smorgestborg of things that you can choose if you’re

[rory_vaden]: interested.

[david_horsager]: Looking forward to having an Aj on and more to come from Badens and from

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: brand builders, Andcause We got the The Verse that you gave us hanging

[david_horsager]: right. I can almost show you exactly where it is Is pretty cool. so Um,

[david_horsager]: thank you for that.

[david_horsager]: Hey,

[rory_vaden]: I like it.

[david_horsager]: final question’s a trust the leader, Show who is a leader you trust And why?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, do you know that I saw like that is such a big question? Um,

[rory_vaden]: you know the

[rory_vaden]: I. I. I actually had a hard time with this question. I’ll I’ll tell you because

[rory_vaden]: I have had some

[rory_vaden]: experiences that. Uh, that people that I would have said, I ended up n very much

[rory_vaden]: being betrayed and not trusting. Um.

[rory_vaden]: So

[rory_vaden]: I think when the for me, the answer that I came up with was Andy Stanley, um, I,

[rory_vaden]: I ▁quoted him. I ▁quoted him earlier. Uh, I don’t have a personal connection to

[rory_vaden]: him though, but he is who I follow Iss one of the people that I follow on

[rory_vaden]: leadership. There’s a lot of people that I that I learn from Um. But the the

[rory_vaden]: reason why the thing that I’m looking for is who are people who actually have

[rory_vaden]: results of leadership in their life, And that is something that I’m trying to

[rory_vaden]: really really pay attention to, Um. Is is the idea of just like,

[rory_vaden]: Um, not what it is on the surface, but

[rory_vaden]: who is actually

[rory_vaden]: you know accomplished the things that you’re trying to accomplish, and I think

[rory_vaden]: of the impact that he’s had. I think that that’s somebody that I admire to. So

[rory_vaden]: that was the answer that I came up as I was. I was. I was thinking about it

[rory_vaden]: trying to be outside of like you know, friend, like you know, personal family

[rory_vaden]: and stuff. but I, I’ll I’ll say this. I’ve never worked for a leader that I have

[rory_vaden]: trusted,

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[rory_vaden]: Um. And that’s heartbreaking.

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[rory_vaden]: Uh, To look back at this point in my career and go. I can’t honestly say that I

[rory_vaden]: have never worked for a leader That I fully trusted that I trusted their

[rory_vaden]: integrity, their their personal interests, and that I trusted that they had my

[rory_vaden]: best in their best, M my best interest, Uh in mind. And so it

[rory_vaden]: gives me a lot to aspire to Um, as a a leader. I. I’d

[rory_vaden]: like to be that for people, but I

[rory_vaden]: go ahead,

[david_horsager]: you know you know I. I just we were just talking about this this week.

[david_horsager]: How often do you have people say I just love my boss, almost never like.

[david_horsager]: I’ve got the greatest boss in the world. You don’t hear that I got an okay

[david_horsager]: boss. I got a terrible boss, but you don’t hear people say Yeah, I just I. I

[david_horsager]: just I love my. I got the most amazing, but you very seldom hear that.

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, No, you don’t. And and um, you know, and I think there’s, I mean, it’s one

[rory_vaden]: of the reasons why I’m such a big fan of your work, and I think Trust Edge

[rory_vaden]: should be a book that should be mandatory reading for every human on the planet.

[rory_vaden]: Um, uh, be be, and I, I think I think trust is a crisis. I think it is you know

[rory_vaden]: really hard in the world, and there’s so much distrust. Even in with our parents

[rory_vaden]: right, our our moms and dads, and um, you know, and social media has been a

[rory_vaden]: whole world of distrust and covet has caused a whole bunch of distrust like it’s

[rory_vaden]: a real real crisis. And um, you know, it’s even tough to say who do you trust,

[rory_vaden]: let alone who’s a leader that you trust. Like who’s somebody that’s leading you?

[rory_vaden]: So it was a. It was actually a really hard question, and and sobering because I

[rory_vaden]: hadn’t really thought about it. And and you asked me to that question, I was

[rory_vaden]: like man. I can’t. even. I can’t name someone who I would consider.

[rory_vaden]: I mean, I guess my pastor at at Crosspoint Church, I would. I would say I

[rory_vaden]: as Kevin. Um,

[rory_vaden]: but like somebody that I’ve directly worked for I, I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t

[rory_vaden]: give it. I couldn’t come up with one.

[david_horsager]: Well, we’ve got more work to do on Trust. We’ve got more work to do

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: on

[rory_vaden]: but

[david_horsager]: uh, being leaders and certainly being trusted leaders. But a huge thank you

[david_horsager]: to my dear friend Rory Vaden, and thanks for spending time with us. Thanks for

[david_horsager]: giving all you got, and to everybody, that’s the trusted leader show for

[david_horsager]: today until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 66: Ross Bernstein on How Great Teams Create And Sustain Momentum

In this episode, David sits down with Ross Bernstein, Best-Selling Author and Hall of Fame Keynote Speaker, to discuss The Champion’s Code and how great athletes and teams create and sustain momentum.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Ross’s Bio:
The best-selling author of nearly 50 sports books, Ross Bernstein is an award-winning peak performance hall of fame business speaker who’s keynoted conferences on all seven continents and has been featured on thousands of television and radio programs including: CNN, “CBS This Morning,” ESPN, and Fox News, as well as in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and USA Today.

Ross’ Links:
Website: https://www.rossbernsteinspeaking.com/
“America’s Coach” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/356uITf
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ross-bernstein-csp-cpae-75ab9a/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/RossBernstein

Key Quotes:
1. “The Champion’s Code is about winning with integrity.”
2. “If you break the rules, there’s consequences.”
3. “Win the right way.”
4. “A goal made one guy happy. But an assist made two guys happy.” – Wayne Gretzky
5. “Sports are a universal language.”
6. “It’s easy to get to the top but it’s really hard to stay at the top.”
7. “Consistency is really the price of admission for top producers.”
8. “Innovation really is the key.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Gopher Hockey by the Hockey Gopher” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/3tPr4aD
“The Code” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/33XIaIw
“America’s Coach” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/356uITf

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show it’s David Horsager, I have one of my

david_horsager: dearest friends on today, so there’s a lot we could say about you. but

david_horsager: first, please welcome Ross Bernstein.

ross_bernstein: Or see how are you? My friend Could to see her.

david_horsager: I’m doing great. great to see you. Virtually. we’re going to see each other

david_horsager: face to face again before long. but uh, just everybody knows.

david_horsager: Ross Bernstein is the best selling author of almost fifty to get the other

david_horsager: one written with you, So it’s fifty sports books including. I’ve got a few

david_horsager: them here if if you’re watching the video The Champions Code, raising

david_horsager: Stanley, her, Brooks, uh, America’s coach, and a whole lot more. I love Brett

david_horsager: Favre. I hate Brett Favre. Remember that, uh, anyway, we got some. We got some

david_horsager: good ones That got a a lot more of them on on my home library. But Um, he

david_horsager: has Keynodd, He’s a hall of fame speaker and has Keno conferences on seven

david_horsager: contents, Even an arttica, not many people have done that, and uh, you know,

david_horsager: he’s been interviewed all over the world. He’s been a part of the press.

david_horsager: He’s interviewed so many athletes were going to talk about. A few of those

david_horsager: from you know, Pat Summit to Gretsky to Tom, Rated today, and and others

david_horsager: you’ve interviewed. How many. How many pro athletes? I mean, How many people

david_horsager: have you interviewed and all this writing a books, and being a part of the

david_horsager: press and all that you’ve done studying champions

ross_bernstein: It’s thousands. I’ve been doing

david_horsager: Y.

ross_bernstein: this since I was twenty one years old.

david_horsager: Unbelievable and back then back when back just after you were the Uh, didn’t

david_horsager: quite make the the U M hockey team and became the Gofer.

ross_bernstein: That’s right. a giant smelly rodent to gold to the golfer.

david_horsager: All right.

david_horsager: Well, it’s great to have you on. Tell a couple more things about Ross

david_horsager: Bernstein and they, we’re going to dive in because you’ve got some great

david_horsager: things to share. But what? what are some things we should know about Ross?

ross_bernstein: Well, I’m a huge fan of Da for Dave Horsager. That that’s what else you

ross_bernstein: want to know. Like right there. That pretty much says everything right

david_horsager: Oh, my goodness.

ross_bernstein: you know, like you said I, the crazy story. My, my dream is by hockey at the

ross_bernstein: University of Minnesota

ross_bernstein: got got cut from the team. Became the mascot, Wrote a book about it called

ross_bernstein: Gopher Hockey by the Hockey Gofer and launched my career. I had two two big

ross_bernstein: brothers that had Ivy league, M B, A And and I aspired to be a a giant

ross_bernstein: rodent. So uh, mom and dad were so proud, but you know, I, I just uh, like

ross_bernstein: you, David. I, just, I kind of found my way doing something I love. We all

ross_bernstein: before we become become professional speakers. We all have a previous life,

ross_bernstein: and my previous life was writing and publishing books. and and uh, and now

ross_bernstein: like you, I just get to speak all over the place and and try and help

ross_bernstein: people. so I’m just I’m everyday sort of a new adventure. And and uh, I’m

ross_bernstein: just grateful for our friendship and I’m happy to be on visiting with you

ross_bernstein: and hopefully entertaining your, your legion of listeners and fans all over

ross_bernstein: the world.

david_horsager: well, I, I’m I’m grateful to have yon. you’ve written a load of books.

david_horsager: You’ve interviewed a load of champions. I, If I was going to say something

david_horsager: that I think is really interesting about what you’ve done is you’ve you

david_horsager: know? you built an amazing business yourself and and your family is, just

david_horsager: uh. It’s just so fun to see your marriage and your family, and just the way

david_horsager: you intentionally run life. and

ross_bernstein: Hm.

david_horsager: um, that’s it’s

david_horsager: just such a cool thing, but uh, but what? I? uh, I? I think something you

ross_bernstein: thank you, you, too.

david_horsager: share and I think you live it out is just all this wisdom of that you’ve

david_horsager: learned from interviewing champions and I think it’d be fun to jump right

david_horsager: in. I think you know some of the books you can see here. We’re going to put

david_horsager: them in the show. Now’s trust the Leader show Dot com. So you see at least

david_horsager: several of our favorites of Ross Bernstein’s books, But the code you wrote

david_horsager: this series called series called the Champions Code, And you talk about a

david_horsager: lot. I’ve seen you speak, and we’ve been on some of the same stages, But Um,

david_horsager: if you were going to take some of the takeaways, I’m going to talk about

david_horsager: some specific people in all, but just some key takeaways that jump to mind.

david_horsager: Uh, as far as the champions you’ve interviewed, where would you start

ross_bernstein: Hm. Well, my program that the Champions code. it’s really. It’s really about

ross_bernstein: winning with integrity. So I, I wrote this series of books. as you

ross_bernstein: mentioned. Uh, these books called the Code About the. Really. They’re about

ross_bernstein: the unwritten Unspoken rules and sports. So, in sports, as as you know,

ross_bernstein: because you were an all state wide receiver from Verndale high school,

ross_bernstein: Minnesota, and then you played at

david_horsager: nine man football?

ross_bernstein: Bethel Card. I’m just saying I’m just, and man, I’m just saying

david_horsager: Y. Yeah,

ross_bernstein: okay, Uh,

ross_bernstein: you know

david_horsager: I was all safe for linebacker, By the way, Don’t want to get too much

david_horsager: credit because somebody will think I’m fast of you, Saal, statewide

david_horsager: receiver.

ross_bernstein: well you, you know as an athlete that that, if you, if you break the rules,

ross_bernstein: there’s consequences. So I wrote the series of books about You know what

ross_bernstein: happens if you cheat or take short cuts, like in in hockey. If you you

ross_bernstein: cheat, it leads to fighting and in baseball, If you cheat, it leads to to

ross_bernstein: get drilled right. So so the program is really about winning the right way,

ross_bernstein: and I try and translate that to business. As as a journalist, I love

ross_bernstein: studying, you know what makes the great ones right, and then translating

ross_bernstein: that to great leadership and and customer experience,

ross_bernstein: and and dealing with with adversity, So for me that’s just kind of the angle

ross_bernstein: that I do, but I I love. I love studying all all kinds of different athletes

ross_bernstein: and coaches, then just figure out what’s unique about them.

david_horsager: Let’s take that. let’s what. Let’s talk about. a couple great ones and we

david_horsager: can go anywhere from here. But you did study the great one. He become a

david_horsager: friend of yours. He’s written forwards in your books, but the great one

david_horsager: Gretsky, The, you know, famous for

david_horsager: where where the puck’s going to be instead of where it is right now. But um,

david_horsager: you. you got to. you know. you’ve connected them intimately in some of this

david_horsager: work. What’s something you learned from Wayne Gretsky?

ross_bernstein: Well, I, I had a a full blown stage five man crush on him as a kid. I’m not

ross_bernstein: going to lie, you. I had posters of wane all of my bedroom walls, and as a

ross_bernstein: little kid I was, he was one of my heroes, and to get to know him later in

ross_bernstein: life was pretty cool. Um, you know, when I talk about Wayne in my program, I

ross_bernstein: don’t. I don’t talk about the obvious stuff, but I talk about how you know.

ross_bernstein: Wh, Wayne told me a great line one time about how you he. He’s the n h, ▁ls

ross_bernstein: all time leader in goals, and he’s the all time leader in assists, but he

ross_bernstein: had twice as many assistant goals, and when

david_horsager: Hm,

ross_bernstein: asked about that, he said that a goal made one guy happy, but an assist made

ross_bernstein: two guys happy. And I just love that and I love how it’s just in his d n a

ross_bernstein: to give and to serve. And you know whenne when wore the scene it, it was.

ross_bernstein: Uh. It was the the subject of one of my books about wearing this scene and

ross_bernstein: about what that means to be the captain about how to lead and to lead by

ross_bernstein: example. And that was really what what his emmo was all about, and I, so I,

ross_bernstein: I love you know, kind of studying. Um, the weird little idiosyncrasies about

ross_bernstein: about champions and about what makes you know being a champion isn’t

ross_bernstein: necessarily by winning championships, it’s just about the way you conduct

ross_bernstein: yourself, the way you, the way you do business, the way you treat people.

ross_bernstein: It’s about relationship building, so he’s just you know, he’s an amazing

ross_bernstein: human being and uh, you know he was an amazing hockey player, but he’s he’s

ross_bernstein: had equal success, you know, off the isolater in life as well, So it’s

ross_bernstein: someone I’ve been very proud to sort of get to know and I’ I’m still still

ross_bernstein: in awe of him.

david_horsager: I think you knowm. not trying to you know, Blow your horn so much, but it’s

david_horsager: just this is something. if people don’t know what. That everybody that knows

david_horsager: Ross Bernstein, he lives. generosity,

ross_bernstein: Hm. thank you.

david_horsager: I was yesterday. I took a look at the one of the B. One of the gifts you’ve

david_horsager: given us this massive, the biggest I’ve ever seen Scrabbleboard that we, we

david_horsager: had out and like, or the time you know, are invited to the Uh. you know,

david_horsager: many pe. you have c, e Os, and Steve wasnac your friend, and and many knows,

david_horsager: the Uh, one of the Um. Founders of Apple, and And, and you invite us to this

david_horsager: uh, amazing, sweet, uh event at the uh, um, I don’t even remember the game

david_horsager: be cause. I was so into being together

ross_bernstein: the W. A wild hockey game.

david_horsager: right. Oh yeah, wild hockey game.

ross_bernstein: Yeah, that was fun.

david_horsager: Okay, but I just I. I. There’s so many ways you live that out. This. That’s

ross_bernstein: Hm.

david_horsager: what I love about it is not just learning and writing about it, but you, Uh,

david_horsager: where you didn’t quite make the U. You live out all you’ve learned and all

david_horsager: this stuff I’m proud of that. I want to jump to somebody.

david_horsager: Youre one before she passed away. That got to interview at the time who was

david_horsager: the winningest

david_horsager: basketball coach

david_horsager: in the country and C.

david_horsager: Ncle a university, Tennessee Women’s Couch, Pat, Pat, Summ, What what? What

david_horsager: was that like? As you think back on that interview connecting with her were

david_horsager: she team you? We talk a lot as you know all about trust. How did she so

david_horsager: consistently build these high trust high performing teams?

ross_bernstein: Yeah, she was really an an amazing coach When I talk about Pat. I. I,

ross_bernstein: really, Um, it’s It’s a pretty cool vinet, But you know, when asked Pa about

ross_bernstein: her legacy she said she didn’t want to be remembered so much being a great

ross_bernstein: coach, but rather for being a great teacher and there’s a big difference.

ross_bernstein: You know. That’s how she was able to connect and really build trust with

ross_bernstein: with her with her students. Student athletes was by not necessarily Um.

ross_bernstein: Teaching you know, coaching them how to be better basket players, but have

ross_bernstein: you be better human beings, and as a result they were able to foster trust,

ross_bernstein: and you know for Pat, too, it wasn’t about recruiting the best players, is

ross_bernstein: about recruiting the right players and they really try and translate that to

ross_bernstein: business. As people think about their book of business as their clientele,

ross_bernstein: as they think about hiring and keeping young Gen, ▁ze, and millenniials to

ross_bernstein: to to create by, and you know old Pat was was um,

ross_bernstein: fire and brimstone likevince, Lombardy, she’d yell at youa screaming. Yeah,

ross_bernstein: but you know, as Pat got older and the kids got younger, she had to really

ross_bernstein: change her tune and and speak a new language. you know, social media texting

ross_bernstein: young people that A’s not about Um,

ross_bernstein: it’s not about the money, I, it. It’s more about culture and chemistry and

ross_bernstein: being a part of an organization where they feel valued and respected. So so

ross_bernstein: you know you’d still get that mile long stair if you screwed up, but then

ross_bernstein: always a big hug in praise like ham proudy you’ doing a great job and I’m

ross_bernstein: going to text you some Youtube videos and things you could work on so

ross_bernstein: constantly changing evolving as a leader. Um, but really you know it. it’

ross_bernstein: stuck with me, you know, and Pat said it wasn’t about the best players, but

ross_bernstein: the wreler. She said, You know, it’s if it was the best players, then the

ross_bernstein: Yankees would would win it every year, right be cause they

david_horsager: Mhmm.

ross_bernstein: have the best players they can afford. The Um, the top talent, and and and

ross_bernstein: uh, but it really comes down to chemistry and coaching, and these these

ross_bernstein: intangible qualities that were you know so important to Pat, so for her it

ross_bernstein: really came down to these other things, And that’s how she was really able

ross_bernstein: to Uh, recruit the right kids for her system and that you know she’d study

ross_bernstein: him, She, she, she studied, she recruited kids as freshmen, sophomore, not

ross_bernstein: juniors and seniors, And she’d you know she’d go to their. She recruited,

ross_bernstein: you know, coaches, kids. You know, coaches kids have a totally different Da.

ross_bernstein: She recruited farm kids like you, David, because they have incredible work

ross_bernstein: ethic, you know, Uh, dairy farm kids. you know they disciplined. you know,

ross_bernstein: cows don’t take days off as you know, And she loved recruiting those kids

ross_bernstein: and and uh, she studied them and she’d get to other parents and grandparents

ross_bernstein: and teachers and and their friends. You know, people say, people judge you

ross_bernstein: by the friends you keep. So she wanted get to know all these things, and you

ross_bernstein: know, over a lifetime of work she was able to achieve amazing success

ross_bernstein: through not a bunch of big things, but a bunch of little things.

david_horsager: I wonder what’s translable there to hiring? Because you know when we we

david_horsager: think of one of the biggest problems people have. it’s hiring right. and in

david_horsager: fact, a friend of mine, that’s a Ceo, said With all these assessments When

david_horsager: I’m hiring a senior leader for my company, I get it with everything we got

david_horsager: today. I get it right about fifty one percent of the time. It’s like when

david_horsager: you think about what, Because somehow she she hired right. In essence, you

david_horsager: know people that didn’t even get to get paid right, They just got to be a

david_horsager: part of the team, and from there she built a culture. You know what? else?

david_horsager: Is there anything we can take away? as far as

david_horsager: from how she in essence, courted or hired people into the team.

ross_bernstein: Well, it interestingly one of the things that I talk about Pat, is I talk

ross_bernstein: about how you know at this senior ceremony when these kids graduated and

ross_bernstein: they did by the way, ’cause Pat promised their parents that a lot of the

ross_bernstein: kids would get the Lady Val’s tattoo on their body at the senior ceremony

ross_bernstein: And then I equate that to a friend of ours, Chuck Runyon, the founder of

ross_bernstein: Anyim Fitness, Uh, who we’ve we’ve both worked at and I talk about how you

ross_bernstein: know any timee fitness that you know the largest fitness chain in the. World

ross_bernstein: now approaching five thousand franchise locations. How more than a third of

ross_bernstein: their franchisee Onerpters have the Antime Fitness Running Bandu logo

ross_bernstein: tattooed on their bicep or or calf? And you know just what? What are it? You

ross_bernstein: know? How many? How many C e Os. How many people have their corporate logo

ross_bernstein: tattooed in their body, And what that means? We talk about Rabbid fans. I

ross_bernstein: mean, you know we both love the Minnesota Vikings. I mean there, there are

ross_bernstein: Vikings fans who have Vikings tattoos right. But how many people would love

ross_bernstein: their company or love what they do so much to put it on their body forever.

ross_bernstein: So talk about you know, building trust, building relationships doing the

ross_bernstein: right things. It’s it’s those series of little things that I think, and you

ross_bernstein: know that’s that’s what I love to do is. I love to you know, translate

david_horsager: Mhmm,

ross_bernstein: things we can learn from sports. Which is is, which is my passion to

ross_bernstein: business, And I, because

david_horsager: Mhm.

ross_bernstein: I think it’s a universal language. Whether I’m talking, you know rugby and

ross_bernstein: new ▁zealand or cricket in South Africa. Uh people speak that language A, as

ross_bernstein: you know, because you go all over the world, So for me, I think it’s just

ross_bernstein: about connecting those dots. It’s it’s it’s really fascinating.

david_horsager: Well, let’s talk about another one that’s real big today,

david_horsager: Tom Brady is. Uh, you know, big deal

david_horsager: and he’s back to winning again And you know he. this. I mean old, many, you

david_horsager: say, and still performing what you know. What do you learn from how does he

david_horsager: keep performing? Bring at such a high level. I guess from what you know,

ross_bernstein: Well, ill tell you, I, I’ve never met a more competitive human being in my

ross_bernstein: entire life than Tom Brady. I mean that guy hates losing more than he loves

ross_bernstein: winning, and at forty four, which is pretty insane because these are like

ross_bernstein: dog years in in professional sports. the average professional athlete hass

ross_bernstein: less than two seasons. What he’s doing is is is incredible. But I’ll tell

ross_bernstein: you, the thing that’s interesting about Tom when I talk about Tom, is I talk

ross_bernstein: about consistency. I think Tom’s greatest asset might be his short term

ross_bernstein: memory. You know you throw an interception. Forget about it. have a bad

ross_bernstein: play. have a bad series, have a bad game. have a bad week. Forget about it.

ross_bernstein: That’s what separates the veterans from the rookies. Rookies obsess about

ross_bernstein: failing and they can’t get over and they keep thinking about it. The great

ross_bernstein: ones are able to process it. Learn from it. Move aside, and you know the

ross_bernstein: thing that I’ve learned about Tom. You know seven super bowls. He’s the

ross_bernstein: goat. No one else

david_horsager: Mhm.

ross_bernstein: has come close. Eleven conference championships. Here’s a guy who got bored

ross_bernstein: in New England took a new challenge because he needed needed another

ross_bernstein: challenge and went to Tampa Bay. a team that had made the playoffs in two

ross_bernstein: decades, changed the culture overnight, took less money in his own contract

ross_bernstein: to be able to afford some of his buddies, and they want a Super bowl And

ross_bernstein: it’s it’s unheard of. in a salary cap era. it will never happen again. He

ross_bernstein: may repeat this year because he’s just so committed. But what I’ve learned

ross_bernstein: about Tom and I’ve learned about sports in general

ross_bernstein: is that it’s easy to get to the top, but it’s really hard to stay at the

ross_bernstein: top. But that’s the essence of the dynasty mentality and that’s what Tom has

ross_bernstein: and that’s what great companies have. So you and I get to work for some of

ross_bernstein: the greatest brands in the world, and that’s what you see, These companies’s

ross_bernstein: iconic companies that have around for fifty years, a hundred years, a

ross_bernstein: hundred and fifty years. And you look at how consistency right

ross_bernstein: that? That’s what.

david_horsager: how did they stay consistent and be innovative? Because as

ross_bernstein: yeah,

david_horsager: you know, a lot of big ones died last year, right.

ross_bernstein: yeah,

david_horsager: So how? how do we?

david_horsager: So how? how do we?

david_horsager: in? In essence, how do they stay in? Um, Consistently innovative like an

david_horsager: Ibm. That’s been around ever. I think when I wrote about them was like seven

david_horsager: times, but now I think it’s like eleven major shifts that Ib. You know, but

david_horsager: most companies, I think all the companies written about in the you know good

david_horsager: Dege aren’t even around anymore performing very well. So how? what about

david_horsager: these? that Ha? what it take like to be both consistent and innovative

ross_bernstein: yeah, yeah, I mean, I think consistency is really the price of admission for

ross_bernstein: top producers Like we all work hard. We all smile in dial, and get in our

ross_bernstein: cars and solve other people’s problems to to be successful. But I think

ross_bernstein: innovation is really the key. and when I, when I talk about consistency, one

ross_bernstein: of the companies I love talking about is Levi Strauss, who haveve done a lot

ross_bernstein: of work with. You know they are. There’re a hundred and sixty year old

ross_bernstein: company that that literally invented blue jeans. They invented Denm because

ross_bernstein: the gold miners were ripping their pants, and to see how they’ve reinvented

ross_bernstein: themselves year after year and even the last couple of years with with with

ross_bernstein: global retail sales in the tank, they were up ten percent. It’s an iconic

ross_bernstein: brand that didn’t have the hubreist to say. Well, we’ve always done things

ross_bernstein: that way we invented jeanes. They just keep reinventing themselves and they

ross_bernstein: keep you know, they keep. uh, Just you know, whether it’s a a

ross_bernstein: women’s uh, Al line, or accessories or children’s or an online strategy.

ross_bernstein: Really, they, They even changed their whole brand to living, leave eyes

ross_bernstein: right. It’s and, and and getting influencers like Taylor Swift and Biancee

ross_bernstein: to to brag about them and creating these new mediums. So um, they’ve just,

ross_bernstein: they’ve just done things very differently and I I love studying great

ross_bernstein: companies that that are willing to to change things up and to really change.

ross_bernstein: And you know, I, I think for you and I, David. I mean it’s it’s always been

ross_bernstein: about change right, I mean,

ross_bernstein: when when you know people think of me in, you know my college buddies and

ross_bernstein: high school buddies think. Oh, when I see and they go, Ross. what are you

ross_bernstein: working on? What work you working on? That’s not my. That’s not my ideaal

ross_bernstein: anymore. Like that was my previous life, books. books, died, Borders is

ross_bernstein: gone, Beat Allton is gone. Walden Books is gone. Crown Books is gone, Barnes

ross_bernstein: Noble, recently acquired by a private equity group, whatever that means, but

ross_bernstein: I can assure you they’re selling more Carmel Mackados board games, Chat,

ross_bernstein: cheese, greeting cards and music than they do books. And now they’ve got

ross_bernstein: these hideous things called ebooks, Kendales, Nooks, They’re killing me. I

ross_bernstein: write twenty five dollar books, but the E version is seven bucks. I can’t

ross_bernstein: compete with that. I got to the same amount of work. I got a write and

ross_bernstein: edited market to publish it, promote it, but only make a fraction of the

ross_bernstein: profit. Is that fair? No, but that’s my reality, so I change. So books

ross_bernstein: became speeches. I’ve monetized my content Differently books became became

ross_bernstein: movies, done, some documentary projects. My hockey fighting book was turned

ross_bernstein: into a movie with an academy, a warwarding director, who to thunk books

ross_bernstein: became speeches. So now my book, wearing the C. If a client likes me, they

ross_bernstein: can bring it back for something else. So I’ve just cauht, you know, and and

ross_bernstein: for you and I, when covet hit weeat, we discovered this thing called ▁zoom.

ross_bernstein: Right. So it’s constantly the change, the evolution, So companies that

ross_bernstein: aren’t willing to do that Companies with huborist, To say Well, we own this

ross_bernstein: category As soon as something bad happens, they’re gone. So it it, it’s It’s

ross_bernstein: a fascinating concept to see who’s who’s the quickest to adapt early write a

ross_bernstein: lot of our colleagues as professional speakers. Um, didn’t want to adapt.

ross_bernstein: And and

david_horsager: Mhm?

ross_bernstein: they’re struggling. They’re suffering. They’re getting day jobs. So you know

ross_bernstein: that’s what I love about you horses that you’ve you know, you’ve you’ve

ross_bernstein: built this amazing brand. you’re constantly changing and adapting. I, you

ross_bernstein: know, Dave. For your listeners, David, that we, we’ve been friends for a

ross_bernstein: long time, and and I, you know you’re one of the guys that I, just we’ve.

ross_bernstein: You know, we were in a mastermind fifteen years ago and we were. You know,

ross_bernstein: we both started out near the bottom to see your medoric rise to how you’ve

ross_bernstein: built an incredible business. you know, ten, twelve, fifteen employees. at

ross_bernstein: your I bend your offices. They’re beautiful and the fact that you’ve built

ross_bernstein: this multi millionion dollar juggern

ross_bernstein: and you’ve got four beautiful kids and an amazing wife, and you’ve really

ross_bernstein: built a brand that’s true to your ideals and ideologies that are very

ross_bernstein: important to you. Your faith, your family, Um, you’ve just had incredible

ross_bernstein: success, David, and I’m so proud of you and I’m so proud to be your friend,

ross_bernstein: and you’re so generous. You’ve You’ve given so much to me so many referrals

ross_bernstein: and so much wisdom. And and uh, you’re just, you’re one of the guys who’s so

ross_bernstein: respected in our business. and youj I mean, fear listeners who don’t who

ross_bernstein: don’t know that about David. He’s just in a. A. He’s just an awesome human.

ross_bernstein: and uh you, you know you’re constantly changing and adapting and you know

ross_bernstein: whenever we talk it’s always. What are you doing what you know for? I?

david_horsager: We better cut this off where people are going to think I paid yourrself.

ross_bernstein: nah, well, it’s funny you. you know you’ve built this big big brand and

david_horsager: That’s up.

ross_bernstein: whenever we talk you always say man, I wish I was like you with nothing. you

ross_bernstein: know, I don’t have any employee.

david_horsager: No, I, I don’t say nothing.

ross_bernstein: I. this. this is my worldwide headquarters. There is my mom. Like to say, my

ross_bernstein: basement, right, this is. you’ve got this incr. You know you’re like. I wish

ross_bernstein: it was easy like you do, and I look at you and I go, man. I wish I had all

ross_bernstein: these fancy toys and all this stuff, but we’re both

david_horsager: Oh man.

ross_bernstein: doing it. It’s fun but that that’s the beauty business right.

david_horsager: Well,

ross_bernstein: There’s no one right way to do it.

david_horsager: what? what do you? What do you learn in these days? How are you staying? You

david_horsager: know you’re not when you’re writing books. You. I mean, it just makes you

david_horsager: stay fresh relevant Capable you? you’re You’re studying new people, your,

david_horsager: your um, interviewing people. you’re doing research. I mean I, and you know

david_horsager: that we’re into research here and do putting out this study every year. the

david_horsager: trust outlook, and you know, staying fresh. Always. What do you do yourself

david_horsager: to stay fresh these days? I? I, I mean, I know one of them is, you’re in a

david_horsager: lot of companies, so you just learned from that C. e. O. In that leader, Uh,

david_horsager: you travel a ton, boy, people could just travel. Uh, they learn a whole lot

david_horsager: as far as opening their eyes and minds, but there’ anything you’re doing

david_horsager: intentionally kind of stay kind of fresh and

ross_bernstein: Yeah,

david_horsager: relevant.

ross_bernstein: well, I, I tell you, The the, The beauty for me with research is is that I

ross_bernstein: love it. I

david_horsager: Mhm.

ross_bernstein: watch games every day every day, get to watch and read and study all the

ross_bernstein: websites and watch all the games and obscure

ross_bernstein: things and coaches. and you go on, you know, and you hear their interviews

ross_bernstein: and you’re constantly learning. How did that coach make adjustments? Why did

ross_bernstein: that team win? What? What was the back story? You know, why? what was the

ross_bernstein: motivation? What? Oh, it came from a year ago when they disrespected them

ross_bernstein: and did that. And I loved studying the game within the game at at a higher

ross_bernstein: level. Right that? that’s what I love is when you? really, it’s like when

ross_bernstein: you watch a game with a broadcaster like a famous B. they’re They’re not

ross_bernstein: watching the game. They’re sing at a higher level. When I watch games with

ross_bernstein: professional athletes, you know and we’re I, I’m friends with lot of them.

ross_bernstein: Um to watch them watch the game. It’s just an experience in itself because

ross_bernstein: they see such different things.

david_horsager: Mhm,

ross_bernstein: So you know, I’m always trying to add new content. new material trying to.

ross_bernstein: and, but you know, big thing from my, my brand in my business is I try and

ross_bernstein: take things that aren’t your business and making their business. So one of

ross_bernstein: the new things for research that I’ve been doing, Um, that I’m sharing with

ross_bernstein: my clients Now when I’m speaking is, Um, I’m doing a whole vnette on hotels.

ross_bernstein: I work a lot in the hotel hospitality industry like you do. but I’m talking

ross_bernstein: about the whole new category of millenniial hotels. You know, Hotels looked

ross_bernstein: into their crystal ball and they said you know ten years ago. Like whoa, you

ross_bernstein: know, for our future customers, these Genzze Millennials, they like air, B

ross_bernstein: and B, So there’s a whole new category Big brands, Mariott, Moxy, Radison,

ross_bernstein: Red Hilton, True, Hyac, Centr, Kurio, The Graduate and I take people inside

ross_bernstein: and I talk about the buildings. It’s all about sustainability. recycled

ross_bernstein: building materials. Um, I talk about. you know, the, the, the geothermal

ross_bernstein: heat pumps and the solar and the wind power, and the ▁l g B Tq, hiring

ross_bernstein: component, and the water catchment programs. Things very important to young

ross_bernstein: people that they listen to and I walk them through every piece you know from

ross_bernstein: the you know. When you check in, there’s an I paad. there’s you know. And

ross_bernstein: and they send you room Ke, to your phone, and then about the techn logy, and

ross_bernstein: and how these places are wired up. And then you come into the lobby and it’s

ross_bernstein: about this shared experience. Right, one side is old school Seggeesis, Atari

ross_bernstein: ping pong Fos, ball, but the other side’s new school drone racing eports

ross_bernstein: social media and talk about the food. It’s all locally sourced organically

ross_bernstein: grown. The cows and pigs are treated very humanely. the uh, um, non deirary

ross_bernstein: vegan non g, m o meetless mate. Of course, you know it’s all part of what

ross_bernstein: young people want, but young people don’t have a lot of money, so there’s a

ross_bernstein: A. a grab and go section. Everything’s maybe a dollar. But then if you get

ross_bernstein: hungry later, you can text the robo butler. She’ll drive it up to your room.

ross_bernstein: It’s very, very instigramable. You can have to the roof where they’ve got.

ross_bernstein: You know an api further for honey, and they’ve got you know, Uh, young

ross_bernstein: people like food trucks, so they put a food truck on the roof. A. and then

ross_bernstein: I’m sure you brought your dog as young people and have children. They have

ross_bernstein: animals. They have a full service dog room service menu. So I talk about all

ross_bernstein: these things right, and the local music and and the spin and vinyl and the

ross_bernstein: artwork. It’s all local, but it’s about how they’re reinventing themselves,

ross_bernstein: And then I ask people, the hotel industry answered the bell. This isn’t the

ross_bernstein: future. They’ve looked into the crystal ball, and this is how they’re

ross_bernstein: dealing with it. But what are you doing? How is your business? How are your

ross_bernstein: listeners saying? How are people going to be buying mortgages and and

ross_bernstein: insurance, and and whatever wdget or gadget that you’re selling in five

ross_bernstein: years and ten years as these Genz progress and there become the into into

ross_bernstein: the middle management right, so,

david_horsager: Mhm,

ross_bernstein: I think we’re always researching and and doing things so. even though I’m in

ross_bernstein: sports, I’m always studying other industries and trying to relate that back.

david_horsager: And I’ve seen that in that you’ve always that every client you work for you

david_horsager: really research them to customize two them. right. So what about your?

ross_bernstein: I try. I, I like you. I try. it’s hard, but I try.

david_horsager: Yeah, what’s your business? Like, what about you? What about your? You know

david_horsager: you’, you’re doing a lot of speaking. We do. I, I tend to speak a lot out of

david_horsager: the institute. We do you all these other things, consulting and measuring,

david_horsager: but we made a major piff pivot in the bigger part of the company for us. as

david_horsager: far as the tech platform we built, and all that kind of stuff to serve

david_horsager: people. Well, what? what do you think? The future for you? You know, even

david_horsager: just like whether speaking or sharing your content, Anything different you

david_horsager: are going to be doing in five years.

ross_bernstein: well y well, you know it’s interesting because you know Um,

ross_bernstein: Dave and I in a in a, in a group of a organization we belong to called the

ross_bernstein: National speakers Association And we’re a. We’re a top producer group. And

ross_bernstein: and it’s interesting, ’cause this year in Las Vegas, I was asked to be a

ross_bernstein: presenter to talk about my business model because it’s so weird and you know

ross_bernstein: one thing I’m doing is I’m not doing a lot of the things like I’m

david_horsager: Yeah,

ross_bernstein: blazed or focused. I’ I’m a Knote speaker, So I do about a hundred and

ross_bernstein: twenty events per year, But like it’s funny, the guy who contrasted me, our

ross_bernstein: friend, Rural Workmanen, who

david_horsager: yeah,

ross_bernstein: we both love. Um, I took, he took a picture of one of my slides and I said,

ross_bernstein: these are all the things I don’t do like I don’t consult. I don’t coach. I

ross_bernstein: don’t train the trainer. I don’t have an ▁l s learning management system. I

ross_bernstein: don’t I don’t have a list. I don’t do social media, I don’t have a weekly

ross_bernstein: video series. I don’t blog, I don’t loog, I don’t podcast, I don’t. I don’t

ross_bernstein: do any of that stuff, And Vrl took a picture and said and put it in his

ross_bernstein: program. He said these are all the things I do. so so you know there’s

ross_bernstein: there’s so many bright sparkling squirrel things we want to do, and

ross_bernstein: sometimes I think saying no to things and just focusing on what you’re

ross_bernstein: really good at is Uh, for me,

david_horsager: it.

ross_bernstein: I guess that’s worked. I mean, certainly I pivoted to the point where I’ve I

ross_bernstein: created a an in home studio which I had to do during coved. but other than

ross_bernstein: that man, I’m just I’m grinding. I’m going and I’m I’m investing in in me

ross_bernstein: where I’m you know, going to N. S a events to learn and network? I, I have

ross_bernstein: mastermind groups. You know, my, my greatest mastermind might be with you

ross_bernstein: ’cause we don’t really have mass. I, We just call each other all the time

ross_bernstein: and we’re in our cars and we say. What do you do, a man? How’s it going?

ross_bernstein: What? how can I help you? What? what? What’s going on in your world? How’s

ross_bernstein: your family? And that’s what I love. Just kind of old school right, picking

ross_bernstein: up the phone and and just learning. And and I? So sometimes it’s just not

ross_bernstein: any huge thing. It’s just a bunch of little things.

david_horsager: well, let’s let’s take a quick pivot here to you. You know a lot of the

david_horsager: leaders, especially those that I respect on the platform are leading

david_horsager: themselves well in some way, none ofectly, but we actually care about

david_horsager: whether it’s faith, family or fitness. What are some things you’ doing to

david_horsager: lead yourself? While I know you just ran another marathon. How many

david_horsager: marathons is that?

ross_bernstein: Ten,

ross_bernstein: and I haven’t

david_horsager: Well,

ross_bernstein: won any of them. I’ve come

david_horsager: you’re a loser.

ross_bernstein: right. I got the Te shirt.

david_horsager: you. you’re a loser of marathons.

ross_bernstein: I know.

david_horsager: So what? what? Uh? what? What do you do in daily? What kind of routines do

david_horsager: you have, whether it’s doing this research or health wise? I know your

david_horsager: marriage is important. To what? What are you doing? As Far as some

ross_bernstein: Yeah, thanks. no. I. I appreciate you reaching out. Um, you know, obviously

david_horsager: consistent things

ross_bernstein: running exercising trying to eat right, I know you, you know, got healthy,

ross_bernstein: really healthy several years ago and you’ve kept that weight off and you’ve

ross_bernstein: really made a commitment to yourself. And and it’s hard because you make

ross_bernstein: sacrifices right. and it’s hard because we’re on the road all the time and

ross_bernstein: we people aren’t going to pity us for our first world problems, as they say,

ross_bernstein: But it is hard you go from airplanes to hotels to conference rooms and it’s

ross_bernstein: just a. A. A. A

david_horsager: banquets.

ross_bernstein: craziness of food and drinks and things, so you have to make a lot of tough

ross_bernstein: choices, So that’s nice. One thing is nice is you know, Sarah, my wife. Uh,

ross_bernstein: we travel together, so we’re on the road together, so we live on the road

ross_bernstein: two three weeks at a time and we love it. But so we try and hike and bike

ross_bernstein: and run and make conscious decisions to eat healthier, and we try and look

ross_bernstein: at stuff. Look, hey, what are we going to do? What’s our game plan right? So

ross_bernstein: you just doing that I think is important, but you know, like like

ross_bernstein: accountability. Just you’re making calls. You’re you’re trying to plan.

ross_bernstein: You’re trying to prepare. and Y, you’re not perfect. but you know it’s just

ross_bernstein: we’ve all got challenges. but I, I just try and grind away like you do. And

ross_bernstein: it’s hard we live in Minnesota, where you know we’re entering a really

ross_bernstein: difficult phase like it’s it come January, February, it’s hard to live in

ross_bernstein: Minnesota and be healthy. You’re on the treadmill. You’ not outside, you’re

ross_bernstein: It’s dark at four o’clock Y. you know you. it’s just it’s not

david_horsager: What do you?

ross_bernstein: an excuse. It’s just hard so you just got to make better choices.

ross_bernstein: an excuse. It’s just hard so you just got to make better choices.

david_horsager: How long have you been like? I remember when we ran together in San Diego

david_horsager: years ago, and and with in the same day you ran, we ran along the water. You

david_horsager: you you brought to your hotel room? I think a twelve pack of diet, uh,

david_horsager: Doctor pepper. You know to go with your run right so, but now you haven’t

david_horsager: had a diet Doctor pepper for three years. What do you? What do you?

ross_bernstein: Yeah, this is my new addiction. I, I

david_horsager: There? You go?

ross_bernstein: drink sparkling water right.

david_horsager: sparkling water with nothing in it. Any other habits like that that you’ve

david_horsager: broken or kept new. like I do this. I don’t drink a Doctor pepper. I do. I

david_horsager: say yes to this, and I say no to that. Anything kind of daily, especially on

david_horsager: you know, flights and traveling and you know,

ross_bernstein: It’s hard like you on flights. I’m I’m not a real big drinker, so that’s not

ross_bernstein: a real big issue for me, but I try. like my. My. My drink of choice on

ross_bernstein: flights is um,

ross_bernstein: sparkling water with some cranberry juice and a line, So that’s what I’ll

ross_bernstein: get like on at Sky lounges and and stuff. And what? In another thing you

ross_bernstein: know, when I get when I fly and I get to my destination. I’ll have the Uber

ross_bernstein: driver or whoever stop at a convenience store. I try to map it out so that I

ross_bernstein: can run in and grab some bananas or a twelve pack of sparkling water, so

ross_bernstein: that I’m not making poor choices. You know what I mean. It’s just it’s hard.

ross_bernstein: like all these trade shows. it’s like halleen, you walk. They got candy all

ross_bernstein: over and you know you just you want to just grab stuff. So it it’s hard and

ross_bernstein: I try and make. I try and schedule times to go run,

ross_bernstein: or, or you know, or go hiking or playing hockey and or or golfing. I mean,

ross_bernstein: I, I just try and do stuff, but it, I don’t know. how about you, Have you?

ross_bernstein: have you? have you made other

david_horsager: you know,

ross_bernstein: things like that?

david_horsager: I. I. I, you know, as you know, I never. I. I almost never didn drink a

david_horsager: clorie. I for six months I didn’t

ross_bernstein: Yeah,

david_horsager: drink a clorie. I never drink a clorie on the plane, Um, I, but I do you

david_horsager: know I, I’ll have a uh, some people might say that’s bad for you. It’s got a

david_horsager: spartan or aspirtin or whatever. In in fresco, I’ll have a fresco because it

david_horsager: does do my sweitet like my sweet tooth, but it has no calories so

ross_bernstein: yeah,

david_horsager: but that was a big jump from Coke right back when I had would drink a a Coke

david_horsager: or die cookke.

ross_bernstein: I see, I don’t see you drink coffee. I don’t get any caffeine. People think

ross_bernstein: I’m

david_horsager: Yeah, it’s good. good Nu.

ross_bernstein: wired on caffeine, but the reality is I don’t get any caffeine at all, so

ross_bernstein: it’s it’s hard to sort of you know, but your body chemry.

david_horsager: I just read an actor. A. He was in the uh, Oh, who is it? Wall Street

david_horsager: Journal? Um, Last week, this actor had stopped caffeine seven years ago and

david_horsager: he just doesn’t regret it at all and it’s just a. It was a

ross_bernstein: Yeah,

david_horsager: a cool sort. Oh, everybody would know his name. but anyway, Um,

ross_bernstein: I mean my, my, too. my, too.

david_horsager: so there there there. I also work out. I work out better on the road than I

david_horsager: do at home,

ross_bernstein: Oh, that’s good.

david_horsager: so I do not by habit. One thing I’d really try to do. I, I’m not in my hotel

david_horsager: room. I, I use it as a place to sleep so I’m either working with clients,

ross_bernstein: Yeah, that’smart

david_horsager: orcause. I think you just got a bed. That. what do you get? You know? You

david_horsager: Kind of so and I don’t watch T. V as a habit. I don’t you know C. Somebody

david_horsager: sing. So I, basically, if I, i, um, uh, you know, not watching T. V and

david_horsager: napping the hotel room that that ups. So I’m either doing a client thing or

david_horsager: working out.

ross_bernstein: Yeah, that’s great.

david_horsager: so I’ll do. I’ll go work. I’ll have some of my longest workouts now. Usually

david_horsager: like you, I’m in and out in and out. Sometimes I might be in the library or

david_horsager: a library, just with Phil Jones out in New York and the hotel at an amazing

david_horsager: library. I just love that so inspiring, so I stopp. I worked there for a few

david_horsager: hours.

ross_bernstein: I. I saw Phil was going to be speaking at your big, uh, trust

david_horsager: Mhm,

ross_bernstein: Edge Leadership conference, and uh, I was out a couple months ago And and

ross_bernstein: Sara and I took Phil and his wife out to lunch. We had a picnic in Central

ross_bernstein: Park and

david_horsager: Yeah, oh, wow.

ross_bernstein: uh, she said, So he’s a. He’s a rocker and that guy’s like twelve years old.

ross_bernstein: It’s unbelievable what that guy’s doing.

david_horsager: I. I. we’re going to give him this episode to put. Tell it show his kids

david_horsager: right, Uh, no, he’s he. He’s great. so he’s a M. One of my international

david_horsager: contingencies being from the U. K. right, so

ross_bernstein: Yeah,

david_horsager: um, anyway, No, it’s pretty fun. We get the Sen sent, a majority leader from

david_horsager: the Republic of Kenya, come and, and we got some really really great folks

ross_bernstein: Wow, that’s cool. Youus to seeing out that’s grown is mind bodling Kudo’s

david_horsager: coming to the trusted leader’s summit.

ross_bernstein: brother. That’s amazing.

david_horsager: Y, let everybody know I’m going to put a plug right now. Trust the Leaders

david_horsager: summit Dot Com. It’s

ross_bernstein: Yeah,

david_horsager: going to be an amazing leadership summit if you care about driving high

david_horsager: performance with trust,

david_horsager: Be there anyway. So

ross_bernstein: and I’m going to throw this in. I believe Dave. you’ll be giving everyone

ross_bernstein: who attends a cannedhm or an assortment of candhms, as as an added bonus

ross_bernstein: gift. Just sit it right now. Make it real.

david_horsager: right there, along with their test, my team months that said, Let’s give

david_horsager: away a test, love or something, but I don’t know. anyway. Uh, just because

david_horsager: it starts with tea like trust, but let’s boy. this is this. This one has

david_horsager: gone all over the grid, so

david_horsager: let’s uh. Any favorite advice you would give before I? I leave with the with

david_horsager: my favorite question of all

ross_bernstein: you know I, I’m not a big wisdom guy. Just you know, work hard, treat people

ross_bernstein: right and good things happen. I’m a believer in karma right. Just

david_horsager: generosity.

ross_bernstein: don’t charge for stuff. Give it away, and I believe if if you do good in the

ross_bernstein: world, it’s going to come back to you. I really believe in that

david_horsager: On that note, Have Ross, He’ll do it all for free. free, free free. He just

david_horsager: set it here.

david_horsager: Hey, uh, where can we find out about Ross Bernstein Ross Bernstein Dot com.

david_horsager: Where’s the number one place to find out about you?

ross_bernstein: you just said it. I’m not shilling anything. I’m not hawking anything. I’m

ross_bernstein: not a social media guy. I just hey, I’m I’m un linkn, So if you want a

ross_bernstein: Linkol Linkol, and let’s linol linoln, that’s good.

david_horsager: Okay and Ross Bernstein Dot com, And you’ll find out about his speaking in

david_horsager: books and and all the other things he does?

david_horsager: Hey, this is better treat Ross. Thanks so much for being out here. It’s the

david_horsager: trust the Leader show. As you know, Last question, Who is a leader you trust

david_horsager: And why?

ross_bernstein: Uh, well, I’m going to go back to Uh, one of my heroes, her, Brooks, Uh,

ross_bernstein: I’m the president of the Herboks foundation. Yeah, I’ve written a couple of

ross_bernstein: books about Herbiy and he was just a real hero. mentor, min. I him as a ten

ross_bernstein: year old kidid his hockey camp in nineteen eighty, after watching the

ross_bernstein: Miracle Ice, where I won the most improved award for the guy who sucks the

ross_bernstein: most,

ross_bernstein: but we became friends later in life and he asked me to write his book and I

ross_bernstein: got to work on it with him and was golfing within the morning. He was killed

ross_bernstein: in the car accident, so it’s a big honor for me to be able to uh, keep his

ross_bernstein: legacy alive and share his story, But uh, I really trusted her Be he was a a

ross_bernstein: hero, a mentor. Um, and I think you know her her. It’s interesting her. Herb

ross_bernstein: surrounded himself with people that he felt were smarter than him, and uh,

ross_bernstein: he, he, he, uh, he. just, really, If if he wanted to learn something, he

ross_bernstein: would just surround himself the people that he had admired and respected and

ross_bernstein: he would learn. And as famous as a guy he was, he just was constantly

ross_bernstein: learning and and changing and adapting, And and I could go on and on about

ross_bernstein: herbiy, But he was the guy I really looked up to and I’m feeling very proud

ross_bernstein: to keep his legacy alive through our charitable foundation where we’ve

ross_bernstein: raised millions to help kids. and and uh, that’s that’s uh, something I’m

ross_bernstein: very proud of,

david_horsager: awesome Her Brooks. One of his books right here that Ross wrote, America’s

david_horsager: Coach has showed it in the camera, But if you’re just listening, it’s called

david_horsager: America’s Coach by Ross Bernstein, and forwards from some of the folks on

david_horsager: the Miracle Miranized team Nineteen Eighty Gold medal team, So Ross, it has

david_horsager: been a treat. This has been the trust leaders Show everybody until next

david_horsager: time. Stay trusted.

Ep. 65: Juliet Funt on How To Conquer Busyness And Do Your Best Work

In this episode, David sits down with Juliet Funt, Author, Speaker, and Advisor To The Fortune 500, to discuss how to conquer busyness and do your best work.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Juliet’s Bio:
A regular feature in top global media outlets, including Forbes and Fast Company, Juliet Funt is a renowned keynote speaker and tough-love advisor to the Fortune 500. As the founder and CEO of the boutique efficiency firm Juliet Funt Group, she is an evangelist for freeing the potential of companies by unburdening their talent from busywork. Juliet’s warm, relatable manner and actionable content earned her one of the highest ratings in the largest speaking event in the world, and she has worked with Spotify, National Geographic, Anthem, Vans, Abbott, Costco, Pepsi, Nike, Wells Fargo, Sephora, Sysco, and ESPN. You can follow her and access numerous resources at JuiletFunt.com.

Juliet’s Links:
Website: https://www.julietfunt.com/
“A Minute To Think” by Juliet Funt: https://amzn.to/3toq8Km
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julietfunt
Twitter: https://twitter.com/thejulietfunt

Key Quotes:
1. “Space is where strategy occurs.”
2. “Make sure you have a minute to think between opening your eyes and getting out of bed.”
3. “Never let the colors touch on your meeting calendar.”
4. “When we have the right medium for the right message we work far faster and far easier.”
5. “Trap yourself in a promise.”
6. “The interstitial use of space can be incredibly profitable and beneficial.”
7. “Fiction is one of the very necessary food groups of a sane life.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“A Minute To Think” by Juliet Funt: https://amzn.to/3toq8Km
“The Wim Hof Method” by Wim Hof: https://amzn.to/3I3YcPW
“At Your Best” by Carey Nieuwhof: https://amzn.to/3FuD7wk
“The Prince of Tides” by Pat Conroy: https://amzn.to/3Id1nFf

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a special authentic guest she’s in New Zealand today welcome to the show Juliet Funt.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thank you so much for having me.

David Horsager: Oh, this is gonna be great and people are going to learn so much you’re gonna have takeaways, but I want to just tell just a little bit about you.

David Horsager: She is Juliet is CEO of the Juliet front group she has spoken around the world she’s known as the tough love advisor to fortune 500 companies she’s worked with everything from.

David Horsager: costco to Pepsi to Nike to wells fargo to national geographic and espn and way more, and you know i’m excited she’s an author of a fantastic new book we’re going to talk about it, but you know, one more time Thank you so much for being here, I can’t wait to get into this together.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thanks it’s gonna be awesome.

David Horsager: Well before we get into all that you’ve done, what are you doing right now, what are you thinking about these days.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I that’s my favorite question, right now, because we are doing the best new way of working in.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I can’t stop talking about it so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For our company, we have decided to be the year of know new things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we are doing nothing new were creating know new products, we are building new new partnerships, we are finessing know new markets, we are hiring no new teams.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because the last 18 months we just been we just have built so much, and we have all this wonderful stuff and we want to spread it in the world, before we build anything new, and I have to tell you that first we did this, we said Okay, this is a good idea.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then the X to see of this idea has built every single time I say a year, a year all we’re going to do is make the things we already have.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little bit better get them out a little further relax and and I feel like it’s turning into a template I just have to discipline myself that we don’t decide that 2023 needs to be the second year of no new thing.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So awesome stay the way you are right.

David Horsager: yeah oh that’s fun well I love it, I think we should dig right in I have so many things I want to ask you.

David Horsager: And we’ve even talked about offline personally we’re both entrepreneurs, we both lead our teams and companies and we try to.

David Horsager: make an impact in the world, but let’s let’s jump in a little bit to your new book because it’s really cool it’s called a minute to think people can get it anywhere we’ll put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com and everywhere, you can find Juliet.

David Horsager: But let’s talk about this idea to start with about you know you talk about space and oxygen to fuel the fire tell us about it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s the foundational metaphor of the book and of everything that we do so, the idea is if you’re building a fire.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You need the right ingredients it’s clear that you need something drying crumbly newspaper pine needles, you have to have good wood i’ve learned softwood to catch quick and hardwood to burn long is the perfect combination.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But there is an ingredient that if missed will absolutely sabotage every effort that you make to turn a spark into a beautiful blaze, and that is, you must add space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There must be oxygenate eating passages in between those materials for the feeding of the fire to occur and.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The truth is that this is exactly the same for us and our minds and creativity and ideas and work, we need space around them.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For that oxygen eating power to infuse the spark and make it into a blaze, but it is what we forget it is what we’re chronically missing and, in my opinion that space is the most endangered element now of modern work.

David Horsager: that’s so interesting in the first book my first book trust edge, I wrote about and really what this is inspired by my wife give full credit, but we talked about how music is nothing without the rest.

David Horsager: Right it doesn’t sound beautiful you if you just had all the sounds of it kind of just be noise.

David Horsager: But the rest makes it beautiful and you know we talked about how people are even after this or in the process of of the change of the pandemic, people are like ready to get out ready to get out and not even pausing to think, but what did I learn that I could think about a head, you know.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For the future, I think a pause.

David Horsager: Even macro would be valuable, but let’s talk about this, because you know you’ve been challenged plenty of times and I know you’re tough and can handle it.

David Horsager: You got it.

David Horsager: you’ve got the CEO sitting there saying yes, but I need my people to work more I need to, we need to get more done, we need we had quarterly earnings, we got this is you got it that issue, what do you mean you’re going to come in and tell my people, we need more space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The misconception of white space actually one of the there’s about three main misconceptions of this open time at work that’s called white space, the interstitial interlaced beautiful thoughtful time and one of the biggest misconceptions is it, it is only for rest.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think that space is only for rest, if you think that everyone’s just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: drooling with their you know staring out a window recuperating, then I can understand as a leader, where you wouldn’t want that to be the dominant usage of space within the work day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It is absolutely critical when 52% of people are burnt out and when we have so much shame around rest and refueling We absolutely need some of it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the truth is it’s only 25% one quarter of the way that smart people use space at work.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Space is also where strategy occurs it’s where innovation, creativity blossom from inception to true idea it’s where.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: leaders can be objective and step back and look from a distance at something that they’re about to execute and see if it has validity so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you do understand that space is also what facilitates thinking and the thinking is time well spent.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You begin to disconnect from that all isn’t this just a soft skill soft thing that my people don’t need misconception, because without it your ideas your strategy your planning are all threatened because they’re going to be thin and unconsidered.

David Horsager: So let’s before I get into a tip with that, how do I tell if i’m burnt out, you said 52% of people are how, how do I even know if my people are burned out.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If Well, yes, two different questions you said how do I know if i’m burnt out and how do I know if my people are burned down so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The question of Am I burnt out personally individually, is an interesting one, because we spent a lot of time trying to decide if the label formally should stick to us or not.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But to me it doesn’t matter if you have crossed the invisible line between wicked fried and technically burnt it doesn’t matter if you are burned, what matters is that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re even asking the question, I wonder if i’m burnt out it’s kind of like I wonder if i’m an alcoholic I want you know.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s something that is stimulating some pain some awareness some objectivity about your own day that is stimulating the question.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is sufficient, it means you’re fried you’re exhausted, you probably used adrenaline and courage to push past levels of.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You know earnest work that would have been sufficient a long time ago, so if you are feeling that, then there are things that you can do, and we can go into those organizationally if my people are burnt out that’s a different question.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And i’m sure you’ve heard of the term skip level meeting, where the big boss skips their direct reports, and then has a meeting with the direct reports direct reports that’s called a skip Level Meeting.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But we like skip levels meetings plural, I would like the big boss to go have lunch with people five rungs down in the organization or have a virtual meeting, if you can’t and say just tell me.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What does it feel like what’s driving you crazy, what are you pretending is okay that’s really completely not okay.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Are you thinking of leaving, why are you thinking of leaving the great resignation we’re only seeing people from their backsides as they’re leaving we got to get ahead of that so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The the idea of leaders, using the new intimacy of coven this way that we’ve all become more real with each other.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: To go in there and say i’m going to make a vulnerable admission here’s where i’m struggling here’s where i’m confused here’s where it’s been hard for me, what about you, what about you and opening that doorway that’s, the only way you’re ever going to know.

David Horsager: that’s brilliant What about how, how are you doing this like Look how do you keep the white space you’re running a company you’re putting out some amazing work you’re.

David Horsager: you’re running you’ve got your family you get your life you’re traveling you’re in New Zealand you’re back in the US in a month, I mean what, how do you, maybe even just jumping into some tips and takeaways that we can all use, but how do you do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the most important piece of white space for me is the very first thing in the morning and everybody can just start here, this is the easiest way to start make sure you have a minute to think between opening your eyes and getting out of bed.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s such a simple and beautiful interval to just pause and use what we call a strategic pause.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What kind of days is going to be, what do I need to shake off from yesterday, or from a bad dream what anxiety is just waking up right with me because it’s been such a difficult time that I need to take a breath and let go and how do I want to show up today.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then maybe another SIP at your desk and then maybe through the course of the day, you take advantage of forced white space that is thrown upon you, maybe that rainbow spinning ball can be your friend, instead of your enemy or you’re waiting in line.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Instead of reaching for the phone start realizing that there are a lot of times, where we’re gifted space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we’re waiting or we’re thinking and if we don’t pick up that phone to fill it spaces ours for the taking now in terms of a specific tool this all is training wheels that i’ve just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: described to you to get you to the basic starter tool, called the wedge.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the wedge for most of your audio listeners are not going to see me i’m making a triangle upward with my fingers and i’m pointing upward with this wedge, I want you to imagine.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little wedge of open time unscheduled fluid open time inserted in between two activities that previously would have been connected.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this is to open up things that would have been touching between a meeting in a meeting between getting a bad email and responding quickly.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Between Oh, I have an idea and i’m going to execute on that idea just little wedges inserted an opening and what happens is we begin to have this.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interstitial space, not the big scary 30 minute executive block of white space one hour executive block of totally unattainable white space three seconds eight seconds a minute and a half five minutes and now.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There starts to be a little bit of oxygen in the system and that’s where we begin.

David Horsager: I remember you speaking when I was listening to you at one point at least even kind of making the recommendation I think this was more recently, because, with all the zoom meetings even saying something about between zoom meetings you recommend 10 minutes is that right.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well there’s a card no rule and then you can design a custom application of it so here’s the cardinal rule.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Never let the colors touch on your meeting calendar, I want to see a nice stripy calendar from this day forward for every single one of your listeners if it’s 510 15 minutes, whatever it is, when the colors don’t touch the day can have some oxygenation.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In and as you’re going back to the office if you’re used to top of the hour to top of the hour.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: you’re now you’re going to have to move to a different room you’ve we’ve forgotten how to you know how that we’re not going to be clicking on and off, so we we start with those stripes and then, if you like, we can break down what occurs inside.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Each stripe to really utilize it properly, should we go there.

David Horsager: let’s do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Okay, because it’s very important when you have a stripe of white space, it is not intended to just you know go on tick tock that’s not the point of the time.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The point of the time is to do three things that really, really start to change the nature of this maniacal workplace you look backward.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You look within and you look forward so in a typical slice of white let’s say we’re going to do 10 minutes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about the first three minutes should be looking back, who did I just talked to in the last meeting Do I need to make a note enter something send a calendar invite or do I just need to think.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about how did that really go what could I have done a little bit better with David.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Then look within time to check into the human being, am I hungry Do I need to close my eyes for 30 seconds I do, I have to get ahead of a bio break before the next meeting.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we look forward, the most important part for business and sales and building relationships, who am I about to sit with.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What human being is going to bop into that waiting room in three to four minutes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Who do I need to be for them, because we all have different aspects different colors of our personality that we bring to light, with different people more casual more serious more data filled.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then, what do they need, what do they want and how can I serve them, and so, when you do that look back look within and look forward wow do you show up as a different human being to that next meeting.

David Horsager: About a way to be more present wow I love it so any any other tips on meetings, I want to ask you about that you know.

David Horsager: i’ve heard you speak and seeing some of your writing on to big doors for people I think listening, and these are getting into the weeds here we can talk to so many things to Juliet should we get we’ve got we need like five episodes but but.

David Horsager: Face meetings and emails are our thorns for a lot of the people right so let’s let’s talk a little bit more is there anything else with meetings that we should think about as far as creating healthy white space or better meetings.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So much yeah we could do about five let’s let’s think about this guy I met named Devon Devon is a senior executive he’s a definite big shot at a large company told me the story when we were writing the book he said.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was sitting in a meeting sequence large accounting firm.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For meetings in the course of a day that we’re all the same presentation, they were these upward approval cycles, where you convince the wrong, and then the next rung in the next right next.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He only needed to be in the last meeting he’s the big shot, but they begged him to give the facetime of you know just sitting in the other ones, and by the fourth meeting he was reciting the deck he was mouthing the words he knew this content so well.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There was no tactical reason for him to sit in any of those other meetings, he knew he was wasting his time sitting in those other meetings, he was sneaking peaks in his phone trying to not be bored.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But even with his power and he even with his authority it never even occurred to him to opt out.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think about the concept of opting out if Devon can’t do it, I promise you most of people sitting at their desk without that kind of agency can’t do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we have an entire culture of people who never even think about tiptoeing into the world of I don’t think i’ll be adding value at this meeting i’d like to decline.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, if you’re going to have the colors not touching as a beginning, we also want to have some places where there are no meeting, so we can think and strategize and right and be creative and go deeper and build and in order for that to happen, there has to be.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Control at two junctures, we have to be able to control, who we invite and we have to be able to control what we accept and for most people it’s the second one, I mentioned that is the scariest.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: opting out is very intimidating but it’s an absolute necessity in the world of work that we’re in, and so the safest way to get used to it is to find what I call a nobody.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: This is a power that you say i’m thinking of saying no to this thing can I talk through the way that i’m going to say no to see if it sounds good, to you, does it sound authoritative or high maintenance or.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or receivable to the person that i’m about to say do, and you can practice saying no to meetings you can even practice saying no to projects are certain client demands.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we need this kind of scaffolding support because we’re in a culture of yes we’re in a culture of I win points by being the most miserable in some ways, you know the Olympics of pain that we’re all showing off.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, learning how to opt out, and then having the support of a nobody or two really important techniques.

David Horsager: The Olympics of pain.

David Horsager: Showing off it’s.

David Horsager: Totally true we don’t need to get medals in that.

David Horsager: i’ve often said, the most difficult word for the most important word for leaders is not yes, as many think it is actually know the ability to say no, creates a space for the best right so saying no to good saying no to this say no.

David Horsager: But I can tell you, even as you say it i’m thinking juliet’s talking to me.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well, you asked how.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh sorry go ahead.

David Horsager: No, I just have an issue myself saying an owner right to certain things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we talked I was just that was a when I was gonna say is We talked to the beginning about our keynote schedules and you said something like I do 100 keynotes and I.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And, and you, and I would do one I try, for one, a month is my goal if I can but.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Everybody has it’s probably one of the ways that I do protect white space, you asked me how I protect mine is I think my boundaries have gotten really, really strong.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I definitely have my weak or spots my tech addicted nature pulls me too quickly into my technology in those in those moments.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it once you start saying no and once you start seeing the benefit the incredible benefit they’ll see in the book a tool, called the hourglass, which is much too complicated for us to break down.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: On a show that’s audio only, but there are techniques that will make saying no easier, the first time and then like riding a bike and then easier, the next time and even easier and even easier, we just need to build the muscle.

David Horsager: let’s jump into it one of those challenges, and I will say this to my benefit I the tech addiction is not my my my pain point I run from it all the time when I probably should check it.

David Horsager: But it is we all have different different challenges and reasons and whatnot but let’s talk about this this tech piece of email because you’ve given some great tips and ideas and how we tame even as you’re talking about in the in the book defeating the email beast.

David Horsager: And what are some tips and takeaways we can think about as far as taming that email beast but not expensive relationships that we need to keep.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the philosophy is more important than the rules everybody wants to start with rules, we really need to start it’s like holding a Rosary when you don’t have a religion it’s backwards it’s the wrong way to start the philosophy is one of.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: less emotional connection to email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can start releasing emotionally reminds me of the story in the book that I love about this guy named Maurice he had this really relaxed quality about email, even though.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was a middle manager in a car company and middle managers usually get really, really hooked because they feel that pressure from both sides, I asked him how he became so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In control and he said that when he was young, and he was selling cars, he was on the floor, and they would get these.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Manila envelopes on Monday and Friday, this is pre email, and it would have all the memos and xeroxes and updates and things that company thought he should read.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he read the Wednesday one like a good little boy, but then by Friday he hadn’t even gotten through and he get the Friday one, and then they would start stacking up and then by Wednesday he’s still etc.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So we went to this guy Maurice old guy on the team, what do you do and Maurice just smiled and he said come with me and he walked him to the parking lot.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he opened the trunk of his car and revealed exactly three things a case of water, a jack and a giant box of unopened Manila envelopes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he said I put the date on and I throw it in here if nobody asked me about anything in three months I throw it away.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I tell this story in corporations people get a little ruffled because they think i’m.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: minimizing the importance of all the stuff coming from the corporate mothership but the truth is that a lot of it is over communication.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can just sort of relax our relationship with how important our email is then then next we go okay now let’s try some tools.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interval checking is a dominant tool for every smart person, I know, which means you choose when to touch it once an hour at mealtimes morning and evening some some form of interval.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The more nuanced tool that we really put our whole company around when it comes to email is called the yellow list the idea of a yellow list is that you need a repository for things that you thought belonged in email, but really don’t.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when you’re about to send an email what we teach is that you should go first through the decision tree of how time sensitive it is.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If the thing, even you’re literally poised about to type and you stop and you say first of all, is this time sensitive, because if it’s truly time sensitive.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It should not be in a digital medium, it should be in a phone call or I guess a text is digital but an immediate frame, not an asynchronous medium.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Now we’ve decided it’s not time sensitive you’re about to send it The next question is, should it be an email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Is there a reason is this email is this communication email ish does it have an attachment of forward a copy a link, something that lives inside the world of email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If not, most of the time, instead, you can put it on a yellow list, and what that is is just a document you keep for everybody, you relate with frequently and let’s say I have a David yellow list and I haven’t jake yellow list.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If I can just put it on my yellow list i’m just going to talk about it with you later so i’m going to go Oh, I really, really wanted to ask David about the thing about willow creek and then I go no I just put on the yellow list.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: boom boom boom gets a little longer, eventually, maybe once a week I call you hey David can we have a yellow list debrief I guess my phone is out of date i’ve got my.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: um.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I, and then we just go through it verbally no threads were created know cc’s wherever added, you can see, see someone on a conversation big bonus.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And you just boom boom boom boom move through it verbally.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Other bonuses you get to have three dimensional communication, which means that if we want to talk about saying it’s nuanced or difficult or creative.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: we’re going to talk through it in a much more thorough way being able to speak directly to each other.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this yellow list idea is absolutely at the core of the way we work, it can transform the amount of cumulative email that you get yes caveat some things need to be in writing legal etc, but it’s by far the exception, not the rule.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: let’s go one more step here, because you get into elevating communication tell us a bit of what how the you know how the best teams talk.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The best teams know that you match the medium with the message we just kind of talked about it a little bit there are two dimensional messages and there are three dimensional messages.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A two dimensional message is static or factor of inner simple.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: meet me at three o’clock did you send the report what day is that special off site that’s two dimensional.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Three dimensional is i’m a little upset with the way you behaved in front of that client or I have a fantastic idea for a new product Those are three dimensional topics that rich and creative and challenging.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: They belong in three dimensional mediums so 2d belongs in email text chats 3D belongs in face to face meetings phone calls video conferences.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When we have the right medium for the right message we work far faster and far easier and when we don’t, we have to prices that we pay.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take 2d content short factor of in content and you shove, it into a 3D medium that’s when you waste time that’s when you’re sitting in a meeting going, this could have been a memo right that’s that old mug i’m sitting in another meeting that could have been an email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take the other direction, and you take three dimensional content you try to shove, it into a 2d medium.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s when you compromise richness and the reason that you get email threads that are 35 volleys long is because someone’s trying to work out the nuance of something difficult in a completely flat medium that doesn’t support it.

David Horsager: Good good tips what let’s jump back before we go into you as a leader, which i’m excited about and a few personal ideas with this limited time that we have let’s jump back for a moment to the book.

David Horsager: A one minute, a minute to think everybody a minute to think we’ll put everything in the show notes at trusted leader show calm, but anything else you think Oh, maybe this part doesn’t get enough attention, or some surprise, or something that’s like just.

David Horsager: Maybe a little interesting in the book that we should.

David Horsager: You know there’s so much here a lot that we couldn’t cover it like you said, the hourglass and so much great stuff everybody needs to get the book.

David Horsager: By the way, subtitle reclaim your creativity conquer reclaim creativity conquer business and do your best work and who doesn’t want to do that, but any little you know subtleties before we move on.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah you’re letting me, you are getting me out some of my children that don’t get in the spotlight so that’s so super fun.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: let’s talk about phone narration, which is, I think one of the LIFE changing tools that’s a little bit buried underneath some of the business stuff.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When people take out their phone in front of us it is so common now for them to just disappear into the phone that we have a kind of separation anxiety.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is getting worse and worse and worse, where we’re with a human being, and this has happened to me during client meetings where someone takes out a phone.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And they start doing something I have no idea what they’re doing I don’t know if they’re doing something related to something that i’ve asked them or if they just have spaced out into their seductive technology.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: We of course do this with our children to where we’re sitting in a catatonic state in front of them and they don’t know where we’ve gone and they don’t know when we’ll be back.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the simple loving and also very professional thing to do is to narrate where you’re going and when you’ll be back so if you’re in a business context you can say, let me just look up that regional manager Stat you just asked about.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or i’m just going to check my flights in Google it’s a wonderful thing.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re at home, you say to your child i’m just going to pick up the phone i’m just checking to see the maps to the lake that we’re going to or let me see if grandma’s available for tomorrow.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And by narrating by the simple act of narrating you’ve removed that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: mystery of did my loved one slash business colleague just evaporate in front of my eyes, or are they actually still with me in the room.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the funnest thing about this is, if you do it with kids and family, they will very, very quickly, start catching you and say, could you please narrate when you’re not.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you’re not doing it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because, then they get annoyed when you disappear so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I love that technique, I would like to do a.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: get a giant hippie bus and travel the country on a phone narration proselytizing journey, because I think it would just make so much of a.

David Horsager: Difference so much I can just see how that would mean so much, I remember this from you from before from you.

David Horsager: Are.

David Horsager: Talking about this or reading about it because it meant so much to me thinking about it so great stuff so let’s let’s let’s talk about you so.

David Horsager: You know Okay, here we are you’re an advisor to many senior leaders you’re on the platform, I think the first time I saw you was quite a long time ago, actually was.

David Horsager: At is a which is basically the presidents of learning organization.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh yeah.

David Horsager: And so we’re in a fairly intimate setting with just CEOs and presidents of learning organizations, but you’ve come a long way you’ve impacted many.

David Horsager: You know something we talked about here a lot is if you’re leading others, you know we got to think about leading our self.

David Horsager: Right, what are you doing to lead yourself, maybe it’s physically maybe it’s spiritually maybe it’s marital here at home, but what are you doing so that you can serve others well.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s a productivity guy named Mike varney who used an analogy last week that I love so much he said the day should be like doing a jigsaw puzzle, and you do the edges, first in your work in from there.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I just thought that was such a beautiful way of describing routines and the importance of routines so like most people I have morning routines that involve meditation for me i’m the my new thing is the coach the ice cold showers i’ve been trying them up to three minutes of.

David Horsager: Our quarter.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: how’s that going shower it is actually incredibly focusing and feel good after you get out I i’ve been very, very surprised at how much you you look forward to it after a certain point, not the during.

David Horsager: The day, not the two bays during but everybody knows, for you just give kind of a clue of what this is yes, the Wim hof cold.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: cold shower.

David Horsager: Yes, so you.

David Horsager: really are cleaning and.

David Horsager: Everything in a warm shower you’re.

David Horsager: washed off or whatever you want to do.

David Horsager: It might do if you did exercise before, and then you turn it to as cold, as it will go.

David Horsager: and see how long you last is that your your deal.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah i’m not i’m doing three minutes and that’s long enough for now, but it’s supposed to be really wonderful for immune system and metabolism and all sorts of other things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it is incredibly intensely focusing and that’s the part that I like about it, so I believe that TIM ferriss line sees the morning seize the day i’m an intense morning person, so I like to set things up.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Make the bed meditate get my ducks in order have some aspect of white space, even if it’s just a minute to think about the day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Where I and many others, I think, are sloppier is that closing part of the puzzle if my party says you work in from both edges, I think i’m just working from the Left.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’ve been in a lot of pondering about what are the closing rituals Mike.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Mike hi it has some wonderful closing rituals and and my closing rituals usually my child interrupts me when they can hear that the last phone call is over and that’s not the closing ritual that I really want.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the one that i’m pretty good at, and the one that we teach and I love is called trap yourself in a promise.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it’s just the most simple way of putting it into work when you walk out in front of whoever you live with just say it out loud and I do this pretty much every day, well done for the day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And as soon as i’ve said or done for the day little ears and husband ears have heard that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And even if you live alone, you can text a boundary buddy or you can say it out loud, for your own ears to hear, and now I have made a line in the sand.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because if I just walk right back in and take another SIP of the laptop everybody’s watching and it’s a really nice way of protecting myself from those tendencies to want to do more and want to work more.

David Horsager: Speaking of that how are you, you know in this environment and you do talk about technology and some of the you know challenges and different way, how are you leading your kids tell us about your family, first of all, husband, how many kids.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I have three boys are 11 1315.

David Horsager: Right and so they’re.

David Horsager: technology’s of.

David Horsager: boys, something that we have to deal with with our kids that our parents didn’t have to deal with right So how are you guiding them in some of these things as far as white space and focus and um well roundedness.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The word interstitial is when I use a lot in my work constantly convincing people that the interstitial use of space can be incredibly profitable and beneficial.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But in my home the word interstitial has a different meaning because that’s the primary directive that I give my children is to avoid their screens interstitial.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s not that my kids don’t watch videos or do a movie or do things that are screen based, but what we’re trying to do is.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: compartmentalize the use, so you take out an iPad you sit down and you use it for some period of time, as opposed to.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I eat a grape Oh, I just want to look something up I walk outside wait a second, I just want to see that D amp D Stat and that interstitial use of I touched it put it down gets to that time confetti that we’re all so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: worried about now I think that’s Adam grants wonderful line about time confetti.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So i’ve picked my battles over the years, we used to be a very i’ve used I used to be more militant about screen stuff when they were littler and now I understand that people have to participate in the world.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But i’m always trying to get them to put it in a bucket a little compartment an hour at a time 15 minutes at a time and then, can you put it away we do put those things away at around six o’clock so that at around 601 everybody’s eyes, clear and they look around, I go wow a family.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: hey and therefore we’re forced to interact in a different flavor in the last couple hours of the day.

David Horsager: How are you staying you know you’re leading others and I noticed like a great leader you’re quoting Adam grant and you talked about some others.

David Horsager: Earlier, because you’re a continual learner but how are you like, is there a consistent routine to staying fresh and relevant and capable and competent and.

David Horsager: Continually learning is there a process there or you’re reading you’re you’re studying or how are, how is it that you have you know, keep in your mind putting good inputs in.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: relationships and deadlines, would be the two things that come to mind in building relationships, I learned a lot just from if i’m really curious about my clients if i’m really curious about how they feel they’re leading me to have.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Two places where they have pain and I need to go find them answers and what was the second one, I said relationships in.

David Horsager: lines which I think no one’s ever said this.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Before yeah that, for me, I need to reach down in the well and find something new every two weeks, when I right, so I have a blog that’s in every two week blog and I have tons and tons of content that we put out so in content creation.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My dad used to say they’ll milk the cow, you know you put it there and something’s going to come out and so there’s times, where I sit down, I have 11 different video scripts to write or two blog posts, and then I have to start.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: musing on the Internet, finding out what’s going on finding out what’s current and what’s fresh and and then audio books or just always happening in a secondary.

David Horsager: What.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: was the one that’s my perfect what’s it what.

David Horsager: what’s the favorite audio book that you’ve listened to lately.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For development i’m in love with carrie new Hoff stuff now with at your best, and I love the energy calendar, he has this wonderful calendar, where you.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Basically, decide that there are green areas where you’re going to be at your best energy red and yellow based on your internal clock.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My green areas are early in the morning, and so I shouldn’t put.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Difficult or challenging things in the afternoon because i’m only turned on on green in the mornings just a wonderful helpful model.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But then whenever anybody asks about books, I always have to talk about fiction, because I believe fiction to be one of the very necessary food groups of a sane life.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’m constantly advocating for fiction because it’s it’s an activity that I consider white space adjacent.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That, if you have enough space in your personal life, you can get drawn into a beautiful book or a beautiful hobby and that’s a very, very important part of refueling and then coming back the next day full.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the current fiction that i’m in love with i’m reading Prince of tides, which I somehow missed and never read and it’s it’s insane it’s like the Creme brulee of writing it’s just me every sentence is so yummy.

David Horsager: Oh there’s so many more questions i’ve only gotten to a few of like what I was thinking about.

David Horsager: let’s go here, what about you what’s your biggest hope for the future, your business your life what’s something you’re thinking about maybe it’s bucket list, but maybe it’s a hope for the future either of your work, your family or your life.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When I was going to guess I don’t know mid 20s I remember trying to figure out what I wanted to do for a living and I opened up a newspaper and I thought I think I want to be a social worker.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I remember very distinctly sitting in this apartment and seeing that a social worker made $8 an hour.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it doesn’t feel like the most prideful story because there’s people whose passion to serve has overwritten that financial concern but mine didn’t and I remember thinking I don’t really know if I can do that I don’t really know if I could.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: make my life work on that and i’m I followed many other paths, but there was something about.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The original image of a social worker that would have been right for me sitting with one human being, at a time.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Hearing their story meeting with them repeatedly going deep in their world and then seeing them change and one of the problems of being.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: a really big keynoter on these giant stages of 12,000 people or having a company, where you just get reports about the way that you’re helping people as I do feel divorced.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In a way, that’s painful for me from that social worker feeling and I don’t really know how to get it back and so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: i’m trying to figure out what does it look like to blend the success that we’ve had.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: With getting me someplace it’s even through the foundation that we’re building but getting me someplace where I see regular people in a chair across from me in the flesh.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I help them and I hear them and I honestly don’t know how that’s going to look but it’s missing for me, I think I was right at 21 in some ways, about that.

David Horsager: I think there’s something interesting I was walking with a mentor of mind in the middle of the.

David Horsager: pandemic and it was kind of like i’m i’m i’m asking him I get you know we’re talking through he’s someone who’s in the White House a lot he’s he keeps below the radar people ask for advice from him he’s 20 years you know my senior he.

David Horsager: For free he doesn’t ever take a paycheck, by the way, from any way presidents of countries or whatever he doesn’t whether it needs to or not he just he wants to be.

David Horsager: He but he’s invited to advise many and I was fortunate you happen to be at the College, I was at university.

David Horsager: For the very short time that I happened to be there just the four years I was there, and he kind of took me under his wing, you know, whatever that was 30 years ago 27 years ago.

David Horsager: And we’ve stayed friends he’s still definitely a friend and a mentor.

David Horsager: But he said something as We walked in I was thinking you know talking through Am I gonna have to let people go, am I gonna do these things in the pandemic that we didn’t know we were going to do with our business, unfortunately.

David Horsager: Many things turned out better than we ever might have dreamed at the time, but he said something he said, David.

David Horsager: Small is beautiful.

David Horsager: And it’s going to be more beautiful and he said I could see you, and he named someone that we would all know and I don’t I don’t think I should do that right here, but basically said you speak.

David Horsager: To thousands of people and and do all these kind of things, and of course out of the Institute, we do research and we certified people and we.

David Horsager: You know, do consulting with the enterprise trust index, and all those things but me commonly i’m the you know i’m on the.

David Horsager: platform or i’m in the boardroom or i’m on the executive day and he said he named somebody.

David Horsager: That only speaks six times a year now, and he used to speak to thousands and thousands and thousands at a time, and yet he makes more frankly money and impact.

David Horsager: Basically, by kind of mentoring or co co co mentoring this group of about six to 10 and senior senior leaders that many people have heard of on the show and so.

David Horsager: i’ve been thinking about the same thing, so I just really appreciate it we’re calling it the trust table.

David Horsager: And another phase, for me, I do actually like to speak, I like to inspire like to shift thinking I don’t just like that do I like to have a place where people go after that to have long term reinforcement and change and that’s.

David Horsager: Our certification and everything, but I think for me personally, this trust table idea you just ignited it and I just I wasn’t gonna talk about this, but i’ve been thinking about it and it’s we’re similar in that, where I I love that ongoing long term smaller relationship of change.

David Horsager: can happen so for whatever it’s worth one other thing came to mind, not to jump back on me, but you talked about like commitments some and how you, you say you know done for the day and how that kind of gives public accountability, so you may not have heard this, but you know I am.

David Horsager: In a time when I didn’t necessarily have that much money over a decade ago I said publicly if i’m not 50 pounds less or if i’m not my high school weight by May 1 of that year i’ll give you each give my staff 20 $500.

David Horsager: So I said this publicly, not knowing exactly how it was going to do it, but knowing that money it frankly was so important for me then there’s no way I wouldn’t let that you know figure it out and that commitment, I came in at you know I came in at three pounds less than I had.

David Horsager: started the last week right.

David Horsager: yeah I was.

David Horsager: A little bit again so interestingly enough, my team knows that I just made a commitment.

David Horsager: I have to get $5,000 to somebody if i’m not because i’d gone just not like that, but gone up a little bit again.

David Horsager: and knowing, I want to be back to that lean because I feel better and what when me if I make a commitment out loud, the big like I have to keep it, and so I have to figure out how to you know that that last part, by the way, is the toughest part but all i’m saying is that public commitment.

David Horsager: Whether it’s for space with your family.

David Horsager: Which is important done for the day or i’m going to do this, of course, it only works if you’re the kind of person that will keep the commitment or or fields responsibility for that for strengths Finder my main one is responsibility.

David Horsager: I know people that have made that commitment back to me saying I love that idea and they’ve never you know they haven’t said, a thing, and of course I haven’t haven’t.

David Horsager: It hasn’t met much but anyway i’ve really enjoyed this and Juliet you know I really appreciate the good you’ve brought to the world and.

David Horsager: from afar, even hearing speaking, and also in some ways aligned on this journey to to speak train equip coach consult and really hopefully move people toward better and so where can everybody find out more about you there’s a whole lot more to what you’re doing.

David Horsager: At sure yet fun group.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Juliet fun calm is a website and they can go there, they can get the first chapter of the book for free at the top of the homepage or they can also subscribe to my linkedin newsletter, which is that every other week blog.

David Horsager: perfect and you can find out a whole lot more we’ll put that all in the show notes last question, it is the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust and why.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Ah, you know it’s funny I always, I think I think of people in a lot of different categories and leader is never one of them my head goes i’ve keynoter friends author friends teacher friends trainer friends consultant friends.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I think Craig Rochelle is the one that comes to mind who’s a mutual guy that we know from glm he’s a pastor and also leadership expert and he just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I think that when a leader is somebody that you trust you feel really safe for reasons that you can’t explain you just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I just feel great I can be around him and be completely myself raw vulnerable good broken.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: fancy not fancy that just wonderful sense, and I think he’s just one of the most brilliant minds he’s really making this crossover now from faith based focus to a dual focus of faith and corporate and he’s going to be huge he’s brilliant yeah.

David Horsager: And what you said, I think, maybe the first word that comes to mind for me with him is authentic and willing to be vulnerable.

David Horsager: willing to share.

David Horsager: hey i’ve struggled to i’ve i’m trying to lead at home at work executive So yes, great example, thank you for.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For sharing that, thank you for.

David Horsager: Sharing your time and mind and everything else with us, and thanks for being my friend that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: is great to be here.

David Horsager: Yes, thank you that’s the trusted leader show for this time until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 64: Charles Eide on Why You Should NOT Focus On What You’re Bad At

In this episode, David sits down with Charles Eide, Founder and CEO of EideCom, to discuss why you should NOT focus on what you’re bad at but you should instead focus on what you’re good at.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Charles’s Bio:
Charles Eide is the founder and CEO of EideCom, a full-service production agency based in Minneapolis, MN. Charles is a visionary, leading a talented team of professionals who create large-scale event experiences all over the world. Entrepreneur, thought leader, and innovator, Charles is an industry expert dedicated to growth and community.

Charles’s Links:
Eidecom: https://eidecom.com/
Second Stage: https://secondstage.events/
Charles LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charleseide/
Eidecom LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/eidecom-media-&-events/
Second Stage LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-stage/
Eidecom Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eidecom/
Charles Twitter: https://twitter.com/charleseide
Eidecom Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheEideCom
Charles Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charlesevaneide/?hl=en
Eidecom Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eidecomcreative/?hl=en

Key Quotes:
1. “Forget about improving on the things you’re terrible at, start improving on the things you’re good at.”
2. “It all starts with vision.”
3. “It all comes down to empowering great people to do great work.”
4. “If you don’t trust your employees to do what they are there to do, maybe they shouldn’t be there.”
5. “Your physical fitness and your health and your body cannot be delegated to anybody.”
6. “You have to be patient with people.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Eidecom: https://eidecom.com/
Second Stage: https://secondstage.events/
Daniel Pink Masterclass: https://www.masterclass.com/classes/daniel-pink-teaches-sales-and-persuasion
“It’s Your Ship” by Captain D. Michael Abrashoff: https://amzn.to/3qaYU7S
“Traction” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3nbVhNb

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsager, I have a good

david_horsager: friend, a brilliant entrepreneur and the founder of EideCom with the Today

david_horsager: Charles Eide. Thanks through in with us.

charles_eide: Thanks for having me, David. it’s so great to see you, man.

david_horsager: Hey, just full disclosure. he is a friend, but he has produced some of our

david_horsager: best and biggest events. Trusted. Uh, back when we did the Trust Edge

david_horsager: summits Now we have the Trusted Leader Uh summit coming up. He did our

david_horsager: widely acclaimed virtual event out of their studio, which was like April

david_horsager: Fourteenth and fifteenth of the pandemic, and we had people on from around

david_horsager: the world. I remember Kirkstanon, and you know this is whoops, Um, my

david_horsager: throwing my pen. but this is interesting because even back we held eighty

david_horsager: CEOs and senior executives for two eight hour days, virtually

charles_eide: That is amazing. I mean, I, I mean, only you could

charles_eide: hold the attention.

david_horsager: and the studio and the lights and the interaction and all that. So you know,

david_horsager: there’s a lot more to you and I’m so excited. I mean you’ve started

david_horsager: companies. You’re selling one of your companies spinning one right off right

david_horsager: now. you are. I. Since I’ve known you’ve been an, you know this

david_horsager: entrepreneur, but also so not just this kind of foe, solo entrepreneur, this

david_horsager: leader of people that’s growing real businesses. You’re a a family man. You

david_horsager: fly your own plane, which I’ve had the opportunity to to to go with you on

david_horsager: some some fun things. Um, you know Y, there’s a lot to you, but give us say.

david_horsager: Just give us a couple more insights backgrounds on Charles side.

charles_eide: Well, I, uh,

charles_eide: first of all, David. this is so fun to be doing a pod cas with you. You are a

charles_eide: brilliant guy and I absolutely love following all the things you do.

charles_eide: So I guess you’d say that, Um, it all comes down to things that you are Pat

charles_eide: Ionate about, but that you’re also good att, right like we’ve all watched

charles_eide: American Idol where there are people that are wildly passionate about being

charles_eide: famous singers. but they’re not good

charles_eide: at singing and we all know it. I think it comes down to kind of identifying

charles_eide: those things in your career that you’re really good at and focusing on those

charles_eide: things. Uh, I read a book a long time ago and I don’t remember the name of it,

charles_eide: but what I took away from it was. Forget about improving on the things you’re

charles_eide: terrible at R. Start improving on the things you’re good at, because you’ll

charles_eide: become so good at them. And so that was kind of my thing. When I was uh, a kid

charles_eide: in high school, Um, I was really into audio visual and technology and it kind

charles_eide: of I. I got good at it. I got not good at like the technical stuff, as much as

charles_eide: understanding how an audience reacts to Um, the things that you do, And you

charles_eide: know, I knew that I could find great audio technicians. I could find great

charles_eide: lighting designers. I could find great video engineers, But really where where

charles_eide: my talent was? ▁ was in understanding how you can make an audience feel a

charles_eide: certain thing, And so today we do that for audiences all over the world,

charles_eide: mainly for big internal corporate meetings. That are, you know, Multiple days

charles_eide: they’re indoors. Um, we don’t do anything. you know. It’s funny you meet

charles_eide: people and they’re like. So like Do you do like concerts? Then you know and

charles_eide: you’re like Oh, I, uh, no, we don’t do concerts unless it’s for one of our

charles_eide: clients. Like you know, it’s part of the show. Then maybe we’ll do a concert.

david_horsager: so you know you, I’ve seen you know you produced some massive leadership

david_horsager: events. We’ve been a part of not just ours, but others that are uh

david_horsager: significant and you do have an eye on that, but you know. I also think you

david_horsager: know. sometimes you don’t see your own gifting. What I see you as

david_horsager: just this well rounded gifted entrepreneur that it’s actually really able to

david_horsager: lead people well inpire up like your sales team is better than any. I’ve

david_horsager: I’ve met. You’ve got a tech team that’s fantastic and will come in and

david_horsager: serve. I know you know they’re like. Oh, we had some big issues. Where is?

david_horsager: ▁You know, at our last kind of global event we had a ▁zoom up date. That

david_horsager: didn’t you know that happened the night before and they were just jumping

david_horsager: and helping making this happen. So we. we’re starting at a high level with,

david_horsager: you know, I don’t know how many cameras and everything, And it you know it’s

david_horsager: it was I. I. I just think somehow, at least the people you’re around, not

david_horsager: to, not to mention Mike. Uh, you know Danielsonn, and you just have great

david_horsager: people. but you you, you’ve made that happen. Ive, I’ve watched leaders can

david_horsager: have vision. stay so low, not hire right, not build a certain type of

david_horsager: culture and I guess I would say, let me tell you as if this is true. Like,

david_horsager: somehow you do it

david_horsager: well being not just winging it, but kind of able to like, piv it fast, and

david_horsager: like bring them with and not do every you know culture thing perfectly, And

david_horsager: maybe I’ve you got vision, But it’s not like I set up this whole culture

david_horsager: road map and the right perfect things, but we just go and people

david_horsager: come along. So um, you know, I don’t know. Tell us a little bit about your

david_horsager: leadership style,

charles_eide: well, I think it’s important to remember. It all starts with vision right. It

charles_eide: all starts with what is the vision of the company And how do we achieve that

charles_eide: vision? And yeah, you know, you can be really good at structuring departments.

charles_eide: In fact, we had a a meeting this morning about that is like how do we

charles_eide: structure our organization to be more effective, But really it all comes down

charles_eide: to empowering great people to do great work, you know, and and seeking those

charles_eide: for the things that they are really passionate about, but they are also

charles_eide: extremely talented at doing and then and then, believing in them and

charles_eide: empowering them to maybe even

charles_eide: spread theiring beyond what they thought they could do. You know, I,

david_horsager: so let let’s stop right there and say how do you hire those people be cause

david_horsager: there’s a lot of problems for people. Well, I just yeah, I want the people

david_horsager: like you seem to draw like they’ motivated and they like. what is it you

david_horsager: look for in? You know, Yes, there’s some things that are different with

david_horsager: sales people, production people, managers. But what is it as a whole that

david_horsager: fits in this dynamic culture? You? you? I mean, another thing. people should

david_horsager: know. you are able to pivot during the pandemic in like one of the most hit

david_horsager: industries in the world.

david_horsager: And you’ve you know you created a new technology, Re at later you, you’ve

david_horsager: um, you, You’re doing some of the most amazing virtual events, But it’s just

david_horsager: somehow you. how you hire is fascinating to me. How do you find them this

david_horsager: kind of person and get them to come along the journey with you?

charles_eide: well, I think I. that’s a really great question. Um, I, I really believe like

charles_eide: attracts like. but you can’t really attract great people unless you really

charles_eide: know who you are first. and so for for us it was establishing core values that

charles_eide: really identf the things that were important to us. And so we have four core

charles_eide: values that I’d come, positive, creative, effective and team player. Those are

charles_eide: the four things that we live by here, and when you make those clear in job

charles_eide: descriptions and in interviews, you almost scare away the people that don’t

charles_eide: resonate with those things while attracting the people that are like, Oh my

charles_eide: gosh, I’ve always been looking to work at a company that has positive people

charles_eide: and they’re creative, but they’re effective in what they do. And while we’re a

charles_eide: team, and so, I think starting out with the vision and the core values is

charles_eide: absolutely the center of attracting great people, and then of course living by

charles_eide: them and talking about them, You know, it’s funny. I. we talk about the core

charles_eide: values of this company at every Monday morning meeting. We have an all company

charles_eide: huddle every Monday at nine, and that all company huddel, we talk about the

charles_eide: core values and it’s funny because the people who have been here the longest

charles_eide: they’ heard it the most, and they’re the most excited about it because they

charles_eide: see the impact it has when the new people come in. You know we have. We’re

charles_eide: We’re hiring multiple people per month and they come in and the the, the

charles_eide: people who have embraced the core values and the vision of the company. They

charles_eide: almost get re energized. when new people join the team. They’re like, Oh, my

charles_eide: gosh like, I’m not insane for working here clearly because here’s another nut

charles_eide: job that wants to be positive with me, you know, so I, I think like attracts

charles_eide: like. and I think being clear crystal clear about what are your core values

charles_eide: embody those things and how they relate to the vision and the right people

charles_eide: will always reveal themselves.

david_horsager: How do you? Uh? did you lead the meeting still on Monday mornings or

david_horsager: somebody else?

charles_eide: It it depends on. so I have a business partner, Mike Danielson, you know, ‘.

charles_eide: David, uh, and Mike has been running the meetings lately, but sometimes I’ll

charles_eide: run em. Um, my goal really is to empower my my staff to actually start running

charles_eide: them. I want to let the other voices that want to be heard be heard. And so

david_horsager: Well, I didn’t know where we would go today, but we’re going to goul. What’s

david_horsager: the meeting? What’s the money? Morning? How to look like you got the whole

david_horsager: team. I mean, we’re going to go all over the place, But we we going to try

david_horsager: to do it? Fastcause? I want want to suck the Merrow life out of your brain.

charles_eide: yeah, totally

david_horsager: But what’s what’s what’s what?

charles_eide: tell. Well, Hey, that’s what we’re here to do. I’d so the money morning

charles_eide: meeting. Usually we start out I, Yeah, so we start out by. Like any updates

david_horsager: What are the key components? Yeah,

charles_eide: that are going on? What? What are you excited about? So usually we’ll we’ll

charles_eide: say you know. Would you would anybody like to share something that they’re

charles_eide: excited about That has happened in the last week or that’s coming up? We also

charles_eide: allow people to share Um, good news about each other, you know, brag on each

charles_eide: other. Hey, I was working on this project and Ryan really stood out as a key

charles_eide: player and he made my life easier. We also share. Um, like good feedback from

charles_eide: customers at the meetings. You know where a customer said something really

charles_eide: great and we want to make sure people know about it. We review the previous

charles_eide: week’s work so like because we’re in the event business, we’ll show photos and

charles_eide: all the like beautiful things that our team designed and executed that week as

charles_eide: ▁, as well as things that we’re working on. Then we move into talking about

charles_eide: the core values and we talk about what are our four core values And and how

charles_eide: does that relate, And then we move on to talking about the the reading

charles_eide: material. So every we, everybody is assigned a book every quarter and

charles_eide: everybody is reading that book throughout the quarter. So we say, would you

charles_eide: would anybody like to share something that they have learned this week in the

charles_eide: in the reading right now. Um, we’re actually studying Daniel Pink, Um. On

charles_eide: Masterclass, he’s got this series. and so the sales team sales and marketing

charles_eide: team, we’re studying the Daniel Pink Masterclass on sales,

charles_eide: where the operations team is reading a book called It’s your Ship And it’s a

charles_eide: book Mike and I read a while ago and it basically talks about. And you know

charles_eide: this book, David. it is, and

david_horsager: I know Mike. I know my Gaber shop. The. Yeah, the capain.

charles_eide: I mean, talk about an impactful book that empowers people to have a true

charles_eide: impact on their own environment, their own culture. Um, so so yeah, so we we

charles_eide: review the reading and then and then we, you know. Is there any updates or

charles_eide: things we need to talk about right now? our company is in the middle of

charles_eide: building a brand new facility. and Um, we’ve got a construction project that’s

charles_eide: you know, in the thick of it right now, including our studios and all this

charles_eide: stuff. So we’re talking about what our construction updates, you know. Are

charles_eide: there any things that came to mind last week when it comes to the new space?

charles_eide: Um, and then just keeping people energized around the new things the new

charles_eide: people were adding and he new hires that are coming up Um. again. It’s a very

charles_eide: meeting around the growth of the company and how we’re achieving the vision.

david_horsager: So do they have? do they share at that meeting? Like?

david_horsager: is it how do they share their Um, like weekly priorities or goals or

david_horsager: commitments or that kind of thing? Where does that get shared? Is that

david_horsager: online on Microsoft teams, or is that how? how do you keep them aliged with

david_horsager: what each person needs to do to get there?

charles_eide: Yeah, so we’re all First of all, we’re all in person a hundred per cent,

charles_eide: And that has been the the case since the

charles_eide: pandemic began. We decided against the idea of remote

david_horsager: y. yeah,

charles_eide: work. Um, while the culture is telling us to do it, we said we’re not going to

charles_eide: do that. And so everybody’s in person now. when it comes to the granular work

charles_eide: that each person is doing, we follow the traction e o S model very closely.

charles_eide: Uh, we have an implementer. We are very serious about using traction, and so

charles_eide: we have weekly level ten meetings for each department. So the leadership team

charles_eide: has a weekly level ten, and then each of the departments of Sales of Marketing

charles_eide: has a Littleton Administration has a level ten, and then operations says a

charles_eide: level ten.

david_horsager: Okay at Mar, sales and marketing operations and A, and they all have their

charles_eide: Yeah, they all have their own meeting, and in that meeting you know, I’m not

charles_eide: sure how familiar

charles_eide: you are, but I’ll just share with the audience you. the level ten meeting

charles_eide: basically designed by Gina Wickman and the Traction team, Um, which I’m

charles_eide: honored by the way we will be producing the E o S Traction event coming up

charles_eide: next year. Wow,

charles_eide: how thrilled are we about that? What an amazing thing. Uh. but the e o S

charles_eide: traction model, the Level Ten meeting really embodies the important thing. So

charles_eide: it starts out with a segway where every shares, then it moves into the

charles_eide: scorecard. What’s going on?

charles_eide: You know, and everybody has their metrics and either you’re on track or you’re

charles_eide: off track

charles_eide: right, Uh, and then your rocks. So like what you need to get done this

charles_eide: quarter, are you on track or off track for your rocks, and then the To do list

charles_eide: and people headlines, Um, and then I. d. s, which is where we spend

charles_eide: most of our time identifying discussing and solving problems. Um, and

charles_eide: obviously I won’t get

charles_eide: into the the G. You’re very familiar

charles_eide: with this, but for the listeners, Traction’s a great way to

charles_eide: the book, Traction by Geno

charles_eide: Wickman’s. a great way to learn.

david_horsager: So, do you on that and we use part of it. We have some things we field in

david_horsager: ourselves that we we like, But basically

david_horsager: on that does the implement an outside, hired consultant and implement. in

david_horsager: your case, lead all three of those before those meetings.

charles_eide: No, So so our implementer only does the quarterly and the annual, So we have

charles_eide: three quarterlies and an annual, and that implementer we have Dan Mosha, I

charles_eide: don’t know if

david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm,

charles_eide: you’ve ever heard of Dan Mosha, Uh, Dan has been a game changer, I think he’s

charles_eide: the best implementer out there. Um. but what I was going to say is he helps us

charles_eide: develop the Uh, the quarterly and the annual stuff that then carries into what

charles_eide: we execute in each Level ten

charles_eide: meeting and then E, the leader of that department runs that meaning.

david_horsager: okay, yup,

david_horsager: So okay. at what point did you start? How many people did you have to have

david_horsager: to start making it meaningful beyond like just having one of those weekly,

charles_eide: Well, I mean, you know when you’ve got a handful of people, Let’s say you got

charles_eide: three to five people. I don’t think you need multiple

charles_eide: departments. At that point, you know you’ve got all that wrapped

charles_eide: together. It really started happening when we got up in the like

charles_eide: teens where it was like you know when you got into eleven, twelve

charles_eide: thirteen. Now

charles_eide: now you’ve got different departments.

david_horsager: right. all

david_horsager: right. Well, there’s a lot here. How how is your? How is you know? you look

charles_eide: Um, you know, now we’re going to be

david_horsager: back at you being kind of an entrepreneur A lot of your life. and Wh, what?

david_horsager: what It’s change for how you lead over time? How have you changed?

charles_eide: that. That is probably the most interesting question I’ve been getting asked

charles_eide: lately because I have changed a lot. Uh, and I think I u. I. First of all, I

charles_eide: used to always think that if you had people on your staff, you had to. If you,

charles_eide: if you hired people, you had to micromanage them. you had to. you had to lead

charles_eide: with an iron fist. And you know the old school way like I grew up around my

charles_eide: grandfather, and it was very like Lead with the iron fist. If they don’t

charles_eide: perform, you fire them. you know. it was micromanaging them. What are you doing?

charles_eide: I need to report every thirty minutes. You know whatever,

charles_eide: and you know there was a shift I made where I said, Why am I doing all this?

charles_eide: I’m actually working more

charles_eide: by doing that instead of hiring great people to do the job, And so I went from

charles_eide: A, and part of that was hiring the right people, and R, really moving better

charles_eide: people into the organization where today I think we have so many people who

charles_eide: are professional and amazing. I think hiring great people and trusting them

charles_eide: to do the work,

charles_eide: and I, I mean, just like you or me, David, the Um.

charles_eide: The autonomy we have

charles_eide: gives us the freedom to be creative and make great things happen, and we need

charles_eide: to give that to our employees. because if you don’t and you don’t trust them

charles_eide: to do what they’re there to do, maybe they shouldn’t be there.

charles_eide: So I think it’s much more of a A. A. A, hands off from managing, but more of a

charles_eide: trusting and caring for people.

david_horsager: What. Let’s get personal for a second. At least the great leaders that I’ve

david_horsager: talked to and been around. it seems like they have some ways they lead

david_horsager: themselves well, or even some routines. And you know we talk about a lot.

david_horsager: It’s hard to be a great leader out there. if you’re not leading yourself the

david_horsager: hardest person. you have to leader yourself. What do you do? personally?

david_horsager: discipline wise, routine, wise to be healthy as a leader. Maybe it’s

david_horsager: physically spiritually. you know, Uh, interpersonally or or otherwise, you have

david_horsager: you have something that you do.

charles_eide: Yeah, I mean I, first of all, I like to make sure that my daily routine is

charles_eide: nearly the same every single day. Um, I get up at the same time I go to the

charles_eide: office. I always go to the office unless I have a meeting

charles_eide: and that’s really important. I also probably about two three years ago decided

charles_eide: that if I wasn’t physical, uh, physically healthy that I couldn’t perform at

charles_eide: my best and so I said, Enough is enough about feeling guilty. Um, I, I work

charles_eide: out best in the middle of the day, makes my whole day

charles_eide: better and so I carve out time that it’s not negotiable. You cannot schedule

charles_eide: me between eleven thirty and one ever. I will not meet you. I don’t care who

charles_eide: you are. my physical fitness of my body. Uh, was was even in my late twenties

charles_eide: and early thirties, was taking a back seat and you could see it and I could

charles_eide: it. The doctors, you know, doctors are nice people and they don’t like to tell

charles_eide: you the truth. Uh, they don’t like to tell you the cold’s

charles_eide: truth, but the cold truth was, I was in my mid thirties with the beginnings of

charles_eide: heart problems with high blood pressure and cholesterol and all these things

charles_eide: that I just neglected and I and I finally said Enough is enough. I need to

charles_eide: take care of myself. So my physical body was, you know important.

david_horsager: I had a very similar experience as you know, and it made all the difference.

david_horsager: One of the problems is we guess compared to other kind of average people in

david_horsager: better than that. Well, that mean sometimes, but what do you? um

david_horsager: on that? Do you?

charles_eide: Do you mind if I share something

charles_eide: with you? It’s a revelation that I had for us

charles_eide: leaders when it comes to take taking care of our bodies, and I? I. This is

charles_eide: something that took me years to figure out and I figured it out and it made so

charles_eide: much sense. As leaders were used to delegating out everything to the experts

charles_eide: in on our teams. Right. We’re used to coming up with master plans and then

charles_eide: executing them by having others do that stuff.

charles_eide: Your physical fitness and your health and your body cannot be delegated to

charles_eide: anybody, and that’s where we fail. as we think. Oh, well, if I hire a trainer

charles_eide: and a nutritionist I’ll be fine. No,

charles_eide: there is no leverage on this. It is a one to one work to return ratio and

charles_eide: there is no leverage You can’t put in one and get five with your body In your

charles_eide: fitness. it does not work and I think we have this mentality as leaders where

charles_eide: we’re like. there’s got to be a short cut. I mean, there’s got to be some

charles_eide: leverage in here somewhere and the truth is there is no leverage in it. It is

charles_eide: a one to one input to return ratio and you have to decide you’re going to do

charles_eide: it. Uh, and and I think leaders struggle with it because we want to outsource

david_horsager: Yeah, So what do you do? Uh, eleven thirty to one is, do you guys have a

david_horsager: fitness place at your offices? or will you at your new one?

charles_eide: so our new facility will have a a fitness center with. Um, the men’s and

charles_eide: women’s restrooms both have showers,

charles_eide: two showers and each one

charles_eide: we’ve got. I mean, we really are like we’re going all out on this.

david_horsager: Yup, that’s nice.

david_horsager: so a lot of people don’t have that. So what did you do the last while like

david_horsager: you? Because you didn’t have a fitness center in your last offices, Did you?

charles_eide: No, No, and where we are Currently? Yeah, there’s no fit. So I, I did hire a

david_horsager: so what would you do? would you? Yeah, that’s awesome. I, I’d like that,

david_horsager: Someday, Yep,

charles_eide: trainer and I was like. I need this to be financially painful enough that I’ll

charles_eide: do the work

charles_eide: because if I’m paying for a you know a trainer to train me

charles_eide: three four days a week, it needs to be financially painful so that I do the

charles_eide: work. and

david_horsager: Did you go to Uh, a place?

david_horsager: A Gm? Yeah,

charles_eide: currently, Yeah, I mean, that’s where I, so I train Currently a North Loop

david_horsager: Yp. Yep.

charles_eide: fitness in Minneapolis. Uh, with my trainer. That’s where he likes to meet.

david_horsager: right. Okay, so that’s good. So hey, do you do you mind getting personal

david_horsager: here? What time do you get up and what time you get to the office?

charles_eide: okay, I am a lifelong um. night owl that is trying to train himself to not be

david_horsager: Yep, yup,

charles_eide: What’s funny is um. I. I. So I, and now I go to bed about ten thirty.

charles_eide: That’s where I try and be in bed. Um, and then I get up around seven.

charles_eide: Uh, Sometimes, if you ask my wife’s she’d probably say seven thirty. Um,

david_horsager: leave way

david_horsager: there and then you go straight to the officer. Do you hang out with the

charles_eide: So that’s that’s my routine.

david_horsager: family first, or do you? you go straight the office and you do family time

david_horsager: at different time.

charles_eide: Yeah, so usually so the kids are kind of already under way there. The the boys

charles_eide: are waiting for the bus. Evelyn’s already at school by then, and so we, we

charles_eide: will just and I will sit and have coffee for about a half hour sitting in the

charles_eide: piano room. Well, I’m eating or drinking my coffee.

charles_eide: Um, having my breakfast and so on.

david_horsager: And what? what? what about? So when do you see the kids And what? Hire you?

david_horsager: Intentional that way Because I know you are.

charles_eide: Yeah, it. kids. are you know? the evenings are better with the kids they’ve

charles_eide: had their school day. They’re at home. We’ll do fun little projects right now.

charles_eide: I’m working on the the basement and putting in Um, like fi. uh, I’m putting in

charles_eide: a fitness facility in my basement as well. uh, we will work out together, the

charles_eide: kids, the the boy. Well, all three of them we will work out together and

charles_eide: they’re getting into it. It was funny the other day I was downstairs working

charles_eide: out and my six year old comes down and he, just he doesn’t say a word, and he

charles_eide: walks over to the dumbbells and grabs the fives

charles_eide: and he starts uh, doing bicep curls by himself. Doesn’t say a word to me.

charles_eide: He’s just doing bicep curls and then he goes over and he sits on the bench and

charles_eide: it’s funny because kids. it’s like. it’s like people on your team. They don’t

charles_eide: do what you say. they do what you

charles_eide: do and I don’t know where he figured this out, But he starts doing a bench

charles_eide: press with these dumbbells and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this is so cute, so we

charles_eide: like to work out. We have a very fit family. My wife is actually a trainer.

charles_eide: and and so she keeps us on line as well, and she cooks a healthy dinner. I get

charles_eide: home at night and

charles_eide: chicken with no seasoning on it at all,

david_horsager: there you go. raw chicken right on the bone,

charles_eide: and vegetables. Lots of chicken

david_horsager: So let you know that’s it here. This is a fun one for me this week because I

david_horsager: just happened this week, and uh to my ki. My, the two youngest, my youngest

david_horsager: is, you know he’s skiing. He’s on the aerial ski team, Snowking and uh does

david_horsager: lacrosse, and so these things. But but he asked my daughter who’s dance and

david_horsager: stretching and all that kind of stuff, he said to her. the thirteen year old

david_horsager: to the fourteen year old. Can you be my trainer and my coach and helped me

david_horsager: get stretched out so I can do these um aerial things And he’s a great ath,

david_horsager: little athlete. You know, he he’s but, but it’s kind of fun seeing the work

david_horsager: city. So she said, Okay, Be up at six tomorrow morning. We’re meeting. We’re

david_horsager: going to. you know. we’re going to start this training session. So they’re

david_horsager: They’re certain of training together. It’s it’s

charles_eide: isn’t that cute.

david_horsager: pretty funny. Yeah, that’s so fun. so um, let’s go to. You know you’ve

david_horsager: learned a lot in your career. What are you learning right now?

charles_eide: I’m learning. Oh man, I’m learning a lot of stuff. Im learning to be patient

charles_eide: that it like my lifelong thing is being patient.

charles_eide: I’m a very impatient person.

david_horsager: so challenging for us that are entrepreneurs. It’s like we needed to Sm

david_horsager: mountains, but that seems like it’s a common thread for me. It’s like this.

david_horsager: Y. there’s you know it. I, in some ways, I think actually, impatience is a

david_horsager: value for an entrepreneurs to push the mountain down. Turns out it’s not so

david_horsager: great at home or with kids or with relationships, so we have to work against

david_horsager: that in

david_horsager: human relationship. And yet we have to, you know, I’m made to be a driver in

david_horsager: a way too, right,

charles_eide: Yeah, I mean’s, so true. it’s like y like I am naturally a very impatient

charles_eide: person. Uh, I, I expect you know, I expect things to be done a certain way in

charles_eide: a certain time period and I’m not very patient about it. And then you’re

charles_eide: you’re totally right. When you go home, you’re like I need to be patient.

charles_eide: Um, I know that. Uh, Jessica told me this thirty times. Uh, but I need to

charles_eide: listen to her. Tell me at a thirty first time. Um, you know you’re like. I

charles_eide: have to be patient, but then of course there’s times where I’ll I’ll be like

charles_eide: we’re We’re doing what with with who and should be like. I have told you this

charles_eide: thirty times and I’m going to kill you. so I think you know patience goes both

charles_eide: ways, but in the workplace I, I think that if you’re naturally an impatient

charles_eide: person, it’s just coming down to how you harness that impatience, because I, I

charles_eide: will say that it is good to drive results and to hold people accountable, but

charles_eide: you also have to be patient with

charles_eide: people. Um, especially when they’re learning as well. so that’

david_horsager: and I think in a pandemic and with all the things happening, there was

david_horsager: definitely a time to start and show up with empathy first.

david_horsager: No doubt it.

charles_eide: that’s how we got through it.

charles_eide: I mean, that’s how we got through It was to care for the team first, and I’ve

charles_eide: always been. you know everybody, says David. They. they always go well. The

charles_eide: customer is always first and I, you know what I decided a long time ago. My my

charles_eide: team is first, Because if there first they will put the customer first.

david_horsager: right, totally true.

charles_eide: So I always have their back, no matter what.

david_horsager: Are you thinking about following up on the learning question? Are you

david_horsager: curious about anything right now that you’re like pressing into?

david_horsager: I’m curious about this right now, whether it’s you know, a certain

david_horsager: technology leadership or how our world’s going to be, or how you’re going to

david_horsager: solve something.

charles_eide: Well, I mean, I’m always curious how the world’s going to be, and I’m kind of

charles_eide: one of those rebels when like the world tells me to do something, I’m like.

charles_eide: No, I’m not doing that. Um, So you know, I, I wrestle with that stuff, but I,

charles_eide: I mean from a technology standpoint we started a company called Second Stage

charles_eide: and it’s a software company that has a product. We only have one product right

charles_eide: now. It’s a great product. Um, that basically is a virtual venue for Um

charles_eide: events. So if you have an event going on and you want to provide an online

charles_eide: audience with a great experience, Second stage is a great product. for that.

charles_eide: We’re also finding that it’s also really good for the in person audience. So I

charles_eide: imagine you’re at a conference in Las Vegas and there’s a speaker coming up,

charles_eide: But you want to run back to your room, you know, or you want to sit by the

charles_eide: pool, and you want to watch the general session from the pool. Second stage is

charles_eide: a great way you can pull up the schedule. Click on it and watch uh, the live

charles_eide: content or the pre recorded content, so we develop that, but I’m still

charles_eide: learning about technology and I get frustrated with myself about it because my

charles_eide: mind doesn’t work like that and I don’t really understand timelines and how

charles_eide: stuff works around, developing software and features and rolling them out, And

charles_eide: I just I struggle with

charles_eide: it And so it’s something I’m really trying to wrestle with and understand

charles_eide: better right now.

david_horsager: it’s interesting. you know, just thinking how parallel our journeys are. I

david_horsager: remember when when kind of my tech director, said David. Um, believe it or

david_horsager: not, you’ve just become overnight the c, e O tech company and I’m like, No

david_horsager: cause I, I don’t even like posting on Facebook, right, I don’t.

david_horsager: but when we built the the platform, one of the things I think that I’m

david_horsager: excited about is that we kept the human component of real people, But, but

david_horsager: our, our Our trust certified platform where people can measure and get

david_horsager: reinforcement. All these tools. That was a big, massive fun learning for me,

david_horsager: and it still is. It’s part of our

david_horsager: whole way of you know, building trust in the world, but it’s kind of

david_horsager: interesting because. We were kind of starting our technology journey a few

david_horsager: years ago about the same time. Um.

charles_eide: I have a family member who’s made his. You know, his entire career in the in

charles_eide: the tech world, and he, you know he’s so, he’s brilliant beyond

charles_eide: me And he said to me, He’s like Look,

charles_eide: we are all always learning in this, So don’t think you’re going to figure it

charles_eide: out cause you won’t

charles_eide: that’ reassuring. thanks.

david_horsager: exactly. But and yet at the center of almost every business will be

david_horsager: technology in you know this decade you won’t find one Without That doesn’t

david_horsager: mean there won’t be an absolutely human component. I think people are a

david_horsager: little. s wrong a little bit and thinking it’s it. Really, people should

david_horsager: still be at the center, but technology will be able to amplify a lot of

david_horsager: things. even as you noted the in person experience.

david_horsager: What’s uh? what? What’s your biggest hope for the future

charles_eide: Uh, that’s a really big question, David. are you referring like like a big bi?

david_horsager: anyway? business life, personally,

charles_eide: well, I would say world peace, but I think we’ve been at that for a long time

charles_eide: and I haven’t seen it yet. I feel like I even look at. I’m watching World War

charles_eide: Two in color on Netflix, and I’m like I don’t think we’re ever going to have

charles_eide: peace. I really wish we would, but I don’t know.

david_horsager: are there side projects like that though that you’re trying to make a dent

david_horsager: in? I mean we we love. Uh, trying to make a dent in certain global

david_horsager: corruption issues with our trust work and and things. But are there things

david_horsager: you’re thinking about that way like you really hope. Maybe it’s for your

david_horsager: kids, but maybe it’s for the future. Maybe it’s some of the things you are

david_horsager: doing on the side. I know you have a heart for transformation. And and

david_horsager: things are there things you’re thinking about that you don’t mind hearing

david_horsager: publicly that you’d hope

charles_eide: I mean I. My thing is like I. I just hope that I can help my. My real thing

charles_eide: is, I want to help other young entrepreneurs. see,

charles_eide: um, see the value they can bring this world. I think that you know that was

charles_eide: that was me and I. I actually had a couple of really great mentors along the

charles_eide: way. that made all the difference in the world to me, and even they weren’t

charles_eide: even super hands on. They were like. At a distance, you know, I have mentors

charles_eide: today that Um, still mentor me like Chris Linddall, He’s a big real estate guy

charles_eide: here in the Twin cities. He calls me and we’ll talk on the phone, Just

charles_eide: randomly talk on the phone for an hour about it. like the biggest challenges

charles_eide: that I’m facing. Um, or like road blocks he sees coming up for me that I

charles_eide: didn’t even see and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, Like, what a gift to have friends

charles_eide: that are so good like that and I just I want to be able to be that for others.

charles_eide: Um, along the way that I, there’s this really cool young kid. his name is

charles_eide: Julian and I met Julian when I was speaking at. Um, I was speaking at. I think

charles_eide: it was at Maranatha . It’s a private school here in the Twin Cities and I was

charles_eide: speaking to their senior class and he comes up to me afterwards and he’s like

charles_eide: Hey, I’m thinking about starting this uh business where it will will fuel up

charles_eide: your car in the parking lot And I was like That’s brilliant and he was like,

charles_eide: Yeah, I’ve got investors and I got all this going. He’s like I don’t need

charles_eide: money. I just I just want to know you and you know once in a while, reach out.

charles_eide: I tell you what, this kid this summer shows up to my office with his truck,

charles_eide: and it’s got the fueling equipment on it. All the professional stuff. He’s got

charles_eide: the uniform. He’s like I got the App, and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, come in and

charles_eide: let’s talk about this. this is so exciting. So if I can help one or two or a

charles_eide: thousand or a million entrepreneurs do better, Uh, you know I will be happy.

david_horsager: there is a lot more we could talk about. I love that

david_horsager: mentoring goes both ways. You learn so much when you mentor

david_horsager: as you know.

david_horsager: Well, here we go, Charles. There’s a lot more we could talk about and we

david_horsager: have fun doing it. But where can people find out more? Where is the one key

david_horsager: place? People can find out more about Charles Eide or EideCom

charles_eide: Well, if you want to follow me on Instagram, it’s Charles Evan, Eide, I

charles_eide: dispelled, E. I, d E.

charles_eide: I’m pretty active on Instagram, Also, Uh, we just launched a brand new EideCom

charles_eide: dot com. So it’s e, i d e C, o m, dot com one him and there’s plenty of cool

charles_eide: stuff on EideCom Dot Com and Um, And then, of course, if you want to check out,

charles_eide: our event platform’s called Second stage

charles_eide: dot events, Google Second stage event platform, you’ll find it

david_horsager: that’s perfect. and as always, Kent will put all of this in the show Notes.

david_horsager: Trusted leader show dot com. You can find everything about second stage and

david_horsager: EideCom and uh, you know just his instagram. everything he’s doing, Charles,

david_horsager: You’re amazing. We got to go. We need to go fly somewhere again.

charles_eide: Anytime, Dave. Let’s go.

david_horsager: Let’s go. Let’s jump over

david_horsager: to Oshkosh again next summer. Oh thank you. let’s tell us jump to Oshkosh

charles_eide: It’s great to see you and thanks for having me.

david_horsager: again next year.

charles_eide: Let’s do it.

david_horsager: All right well, this has been the trust the leader show, thank you, Charles

david_horsager: until next time everybody stay trusted.

Ep. 63: Gerry O’Brion on How To Become The #1 Choice In A Crowded Market

In this episode, David sits down with Gerry O’Brion, Marketing Expert and Keynote Speaker, to discuss how to become the #1 choice in a crowded market.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Gerry’s Bio:
Gerry O’Brion has helped thousands of CEOs, executives, sales teams, and franchisees become the #1 choice in crowded industries.

Gerry is the creator of The Because framework of influence that reveals how to become the #1 choice, even in a crowded market.

He is currently authoring a book about the framework – They Buy Your Because – Closing the sale in a crowded market, which shows companies how to clarify their message, stand out in the sea of sameness and close more sales.

Gerry spent his career as an executive for brands like Procter & Gamble, Coors Light, Quiznos, and Red Robin. He has an MBA from the University of Michigan, a BBA from the University of Wisconsin and spent 8 years in the military.

Gerry’s Links:
Website: https://www.whatbigbrandsknow.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerryobrion/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WhatBigBrandsKnow

Key Quotes:
1. “If you make a promise with no proof, you don’t finish the sentence of influence.”
2. “Your brain needs a rational reason to make the emotional decision.”
3. “Finish the sentence of influence.”
4. “Your why is the inspirational rallying cry behind why your company exists.”
5. “Talk to your customers! Be a listening organization.”
6. “The big mistake is making a promise with no proof.”
7. “People are afraid of making a bad decision.”

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the trusted Leader show. it’s David Horsesgger, I have a special

david_horsager: guest with the day. He might be the most brilliant mind I know. on branding

david_horsager: and marketing. He’s been an executive and everything from Proctor and

david_horsager: Gamble, the coors Light to Red Robin to ▁quiz knows. he’s led some amazing

david_horsager: initiatives such as the I know it, ▁quiznos, the Sammy, uh, Sammy’s

david_horsager: initiative, or the the One million sub, Uh, Give away. He’s done some

david_horsager: innovative projects. He loves the farm like I do, and even as goats he lives

david_horsager: in this, this property that he is designed. I. he’s kind of architect on the

david_horsager: side, which is really cool. but he’s just a great down to earth guy and I

david_horsager: get to call him friend. So grateful to have you on Jerry O’brien.

gerry_obrion: Thank you so much for having me. This is fun. exciting.

david_horsager: Oh, this is. this is superbl. That’s all for my head. By the way, if I

david_horsager: actually would

david_horsager: have read a bio on you, we would be here for a long time. so um, anyway,

david_horsager: that’s uh. it’s It’s really cool and you’ve been traveling around the world.

david_horsager: You help people find there because you help people with branding and

david_horsager: marketing. You’ve been recently. were talking about it. I’ve got a good

david_horsager: flight of Vienna next week. You’re you’re in Bahrain. Um, you know recently,

david_horsager: or’re not even in your home city today, But um, let’s let’s jump in first of

david_horsager: all. Just kind of give us a a quick. Who’s Jerry O’brion.

gerry_obrion: so uh, you know it’s so funny. who’s Jerry Brown? grew in a small farm town in

gerry_obrion: Wisconsin, and now I travel all over, speaking to Ceo’s executive sales teams

gerry_obrion: about how to influence people to say yes to them. Whether it’s we need to

gerry_obrion: influence people to buy from us, which is a lot of what I do, But now even

gerry_obrion: more so, how do we influence employees to work for us? More and more people

gerry_obrion: are trying to figure out how do I become the employer of choice. How do you

gerry_obrion: influence people to work for you? Some companies, How do we influence

gerry_obrion: investors? You

gerry_obrion: know, and you know, you’ve got some politicians on here. How do you influence

gerry_obrion: people to vote for you? So I have a framework of influence that I’ve created

gerry_obrion: and honed over. Uh, thousands and thousands of of executives and sales teams

gerry_obrion: over the last decade, and that’s what I do now.

david_horsager: that’s so fun. Well, we’re going to jump in that. we’ll get personal a

david_horsager: little bit later, but I think we should just Stmp, jump into this framework.

david_horsager: I mean, I’ve heard you, Uh, we’ve been on the same stage together. You’ve uh

david_horsager: got an amazing message and I know you go deep in this in workshops and

david_horsager: consulting. But this whole idea about the because, First of all, give us a

david_horsager: little. you know that you, you say they buy your because, and may even

david_horsager: differentiate. There’s a lot about the Y these days, the y, and it seems

david_horsager: kind of similar, so maybe give us a little bit of the because. we’ll jump in

david_horsager: the framework in a couple of minutes, but just kind of that overall. And and

david_horsager: even how those two are different.

gerry_obrion: Yeah, absolutely so. so my framework is simple. You start with. who are you

gerry_obrion: trying to influence? What do you know about them? The insights Question One,

gerry_obrion: who are you trying to influence? Question too, what are your insights? What do

gerry_obrion: you know about what they want more of or less of, or really what they’re

gerry_obrion: hoping to achieve, or what they fear when they’re buying from you? Yp, Yup,

david_horsager: Okay, slow down. so go back to number one Really quick. Who are they? who is

gerry_obrion: who are they?

david_horsager: that who do you want Influence? Is it is that kids kind of influence them to

david_horsager: clean their rooms, Or is it you know

gerry_obrion: I? I always joke. It’s uh, influencing your kids to put the bulls face down in

gerry_obrion: the dishwasher, not face up. Yeah, so it?

david_horsager: there you go exactly, but in influencing influence start of sale influencing

david_horsager: constituents. Frankly, Republicans and Democrats here on the U S side of the

david_horsager: world, influencing others They. we, just you know a big bill was pass and

david_horsager: you had to have some from the other side, join each o each other’s side on a

david_horsager: few of other things, which is Um. So how number one it

gerry_obrion: who is your target? who are you?

david_horsager: is. who’s the target who? the audience? Number

gerry_obrion: who? who?

gerry_obrion: What are their insights Right? And this is great a political example. What do

gerry_obrion: they really care about? And there’s a lot of things going on that they care

gerry_obrion: about, everything from relection to serving their constituents to. Those are

gerry_obrion: all the things that they’re hoping for or what they fear right when you’re

gerry_obrion: influencing a customer to buy from you. What do they hope will happen if they

gerry_obrion: buy from you? What do they fear will happen if they buy from you even

gerry_obrion: another way? What do they fear will happen if they don’t buy from you? But

gerry_obrion: they buy from your competitor. They buy from some one else. So those that

gerry_obrion: mindse piece. Once you know who you’re trying to go after that mindset hopes

gerry_obrion: fears, uh insights. Then we get to question number three of the framework, I

gerry_obrion: know who I’m going after. I know what’s on their mind, what they care about.

gerry_obrion: what’s your outcome. What’s the promise you’re going to make? I’ll give you an

gerry_obrion: example here. if you

gerry_obrion: only promise an outcome. Here’s what’s in it for you. Here’s what’s in it for

gerry_obrion: you if you buy for me. If you only promise an outcome and you don’t what.

gerry_obrion: Finish, what I call the sentence of influence, and I’ll talk about your,

gerry_obrion: because is the ending of your sentence of influence. If you only make a

gerry_obrion: promise, we’ll give you an example. I’m Jerry. I’m goingnna open up a pizza

gerry_obrion: place and my marketing is this. Hey, come on into Jerry’s pizza. Our pizzas

gerry_obrion: Yeah, we. well, you know what we want. Better pizza. We all want better pizza.

gerry_obrion: We all want a better experience. we all want a better product. Hey, David, By

gerry_obrion: our product, it’s higher quality

gerry_obrion: right. Everybody says it. If you make a promise with no proof, you don’t

gerry_obrion: finish the sentence of influence, it, Y you get left hanging right. So the

gerry_obrion: question number before is your, because there’s great research out there. The

gerry_obrion: two thousand two Nobel prize winner in economics was not an economist who is a

gerry_obrion: psychologist that unravellled what happens in our brains when we make

gerry_obrion: decisions, And what he was able to show is that

gerry_obrion: your brain is looking for what I call a rational reason

gerry_obrion: to make the emotional decision. We have emotional side and a rational side of

gerry_obrion: our brains Right. And if we only give you the promise, Hey, our pizz’. Better,

gerry_obrion: our brain is looking for the proof. The, because, the ending of the sentence,

gerry_obrion: the rational logical side, I say, your brain needs a rational reason to make

gerry_obrion: the emotional decision. No, our pizza’ better because

gerry_obrion: take Papa Johns, for example, our pizza is better because we have better

gerry_obrion: ingredients. We never even look into what makes their ingredients better. But

gerry_obrion: they’ve finished the sentence of influence. That’s your. because, Question

gerry_obrion: three, your outcome, your promise question For what’s your? Because, what’s

gerry_obrion: your piece of proof And what we see, David in most marketing in most

gerry_obrion: companies, beat B be to C. Politicians, you name it, we don’t finish the

gerry_obrion: sentence of influence, we make you a promise, but we don’t give you any proof.

gerry_obrion: And if when we finish that sentence when we give you the proof, our products

gerry_obrion: are higher quality. That’s because

gerry_obrion: you can E, assure that you have better pizza. That’s because I was the brain

gerry_obrion: manager of Coor’s Light, I created one of the most famous becusses in the beer

gerry_obrion: industry. ever. Have you ever seen the bottle that turns blue when it’s cold

gerry_obrion: enough to drink? I launched.

david_horsager: this is. Yeah, that is an amazing story. I mean, I think it’s

david_horsager: let’s talk about this. I want an example story. Let’s talk about this

david_horsager: because you’ sitting there. You got these certain reasons people buy beer. I

david_horsager: wouldn’t be a good example. Here be cause I’m not a big beer fan. But, but

david_horsager: um, anyway, it’s what it’s call it

gerry_obrion: yeah, so so let me walk you through just really quickly. The framework. right.

gerry_obrion: So who are you going after? Well and beer? We’re going after twenty one to

gerry_obrion: twenty four year old men. Now people will say no, but older men drink beer.

gerry_obrion: women drink their. Yes, that’s all true. Seventy five percent of the beer in

gerry_obrion: the United States consumed by men, twenty one to twenty four year old men

gerry_obrion: drink eight times more light beer than all other men. They’re very high volume

gerry_obrion: users, so let’s just say we’re trying to influence men. Question one, twenty,

gerry_obrion: one, twenty four year old man, Question two, what are their insights? What do

gerry_obrion: they care about? We had eight insights about what people want from light beer.

gerry_obrion: They want it to be, Uh, you know, low calorie low carb. they wanted to be

gerry_obrion: socially acceptable, they wanted, they wanted to have funny advertising they

gerry_obrion: want. Uh, you know, Uh, all wants to be refreshing. They want it to be a good

gerry_obrion: value right, low price right, And then we found out they said Well, we want it

gerry_obrion: to be colder. We’re like great now. Just picture this, David.

gerry_obrion: Insight is we want our beer to be colder, Case of the outcome. Now the outcome

gerry_obrion: so your audience knows how to do this comes directly from your insights. If

gerry_obrion: the inside is we want colder beer. Our promise. our beer is colder.

gerry_obrion: Do you see how much that sounds like marketing fluff, and no one will believe

gerry_obrion: you. now. By the way, If I can make you believe that my beer is colder, you

gerry_obrion: guys can sell anything right.

david_horsager: two kids have

david_horsager: coming out of the same bridge, But I think what’s

david_horsager: interesting is basically what you said. The competitors met their light in

david_horsager: Budli. They basically had the other key insights covered.

gerry_obrion: yeah, so people say we wanted to taste Great Millerite from Nineteen seventy

gerry_obrion: Four has been saying Great taste less filling right. So they already had that

gerry_obrion: covered. Budlight was doing funny ads of dogs, frogs, spuds, Mackenzie horses,

gerry_obrion: All the funny things that they do funny ads socially party party beer. All

gerry_obrion: beer was being sold on emotion, but there was no pieces of proof right, so we

gerry_obrion: say. Oh, well, they say they want their beer to be colder. Well, how is our

gerry_obrion: beer going to be any colder than other beer in your same refrigerator? We

gerry_obrion: needed to find a. because, a piece of proof. So we created innovation after

gerry_obrion: innovation to give beer the same beer pieces of proof. The first thing we

gerry_obrion: launched was called the Frost brew liner. Can We put a blue liner inside the

gerry_obrion: can, David. The secret of the blue liner that’s inside the can is that every

gerry_obrion: can has a liner. They always have had one. They’re clear. Nobody knew they

gerry_obrion: were there. We turned ours blue and gave you proof that we were protecting the

gerry_obrion: refreshment of your beer. We sold an extra hundred million dollars of beer in

gerry_obrion: cans. The first year we made the blueliner. Then we came out with a bottle

gerry_obrion: that turns blue. The mountain’s turn blue when it’s cold enough to drink.

gerry_obrion: Notice that we didn’t uh, change the beer. We change the amount of information

gerry_obrion: you have about your beer. You know, when it’s cold enough to drink, People

gerry_obrion: want more certainty in their lives. Things like really important things. I

gerry_obrion: give my beer cold right. It is a big deal. when you’re drinking beer.

gerry_obrion: We created an incremental, two hundred and fifty million dollars a year in

gerry_obrion: sales. By finishing the sentence of influence. Your beer will be colder.

gerry_obrion: That’s our promise, because it’s got. It’ll be more refreshing because it’s

gerry_obrion: got a blue liner in the can. It’ll be cold enough to drink. That’s because the

gerry_obrion: mountains turn blue. when it’s cold enough to drink. We finished and gave you

gerry_obrion: pieces of proof in every business. Ninety five per cent of the companies I

gerry_obrion: work with be to bee companies. They’ve got a promise. they’ve got a product

gerry_obrion: that. It’s better. We need to give them the proof. And so that’s what

gerry_obrion: I. I spend my time doing with companies is four simple questions that change

gerry_obrion: everything. Now you asked about the why people say? Oh, I spent. I have c, e

gerry_obrion: Os. tell me this all the time. I spent all this time finding our Y. now,

gerry_obrion: David. I work in industries like attorneys, industrial moulds, technology

gerry_obrion: firms building out new technology. You name it. Do you know I work with a big

gerry_obrion: tire manufacture. Does any onee care why you sell tires?

gerry_obrion: Not one bit. They don’t care why you sell tires. They care what your tires do

gerry_obrion: for me, and what makes them different than every other tire on the road?

gerry_obrion: You’re intallars. What makes your installers of the tires different from all

gerry_obrion: the other installers that are out there? I’m not. I don’t really care why

gerry_obrion: you’re in a tre installer. I care what you do for me, and how you do that

gerry_obrion: differently, or better than every one else. the pieces of proof. So your’re

gerry_obrion: wise is the inspirational rallying cry behind why your company exists and why

gerry_obrion: people come to work every day Simon sent. It comes from the h. R side of the

gerry_obrion: business. It’s an inspirational, wonderful beautiful thing, especially when

gerry_obrion: you’re recruiting employees. But when it comes to people giving you the money

gerry_obrion: signing the twenty million dollar contract, they care about your, your proof.

gerry_obrion: You’re because. the reason why I believe you’re going to deliver this better

gerry_obrion: different than everyone else. That’s why they hand over the money. So that’s

gerry_obrion: the difference.

david_horsager: I. I think this is really interesting. so there is a four step P framework.

david_horsager: You know who you going after it is? I think number two the key insights and

david_horsager: I think some giving life to those. How do I find those key insights? I think

david_horsager: two think you said hopes and fears. But what are a couple of questions? I

david_horsager: would as to get the key insight

gerry_obrion: Yep, and people ask us all the time. How do you find out your insights in most

gerry_obrion: companies? D,

gerry_obrion: I came from Protctor Gamble. We drove everything based on insights from our

gerry_obrion: customers. We were famous for doing focus groups, deep dive, one on one

gerry_obrion: interviews, huge based surveys. The truth is the fastest easiest way to get

gerry_obrion: insights is talk to your customers. Become a listening organization. In my

gerry_obrion: book that’s coming out this spring. I do an interview with the guy that used

gerry_obrion: to be the C e o of the excavator division of Caterpillar,

gerry_obrion: And he tells this story about how he went around and no one was buying their

gerry_obrion: hybrid excavator, couldn’t figure out why he went to these c e os, these big

gerry_obrion: construction firms, and they told him everything they hated about his piece of

gerry_obrion: jug, hybrid excavator. He took it back to the engineering team, cancelled the

gerry_obrion: entire project. Uh, initiated a new project and it turned around the future of

gerry_obrion: the entire division of Caterpillar and the entire company

gerry_obrion: of Caterpillar, by listening

gerry_obrion: to customers frustrations, hopes, fears, um. what they want. more of what they

gerry_obrion: want less of,

gerry_obrion: And it’s not that hard to say. What do you like about our products? What do

gerry_obrion: you not like about our products? What do you like about our competitors

gerry_obrion: products? Here’s one forty, David. You want to get really good answers. Go to

gerry_obrion: a customer that used to work with you, left you and went to your competitor.

gerry_obrion: There’s where the answers

gerry_obrion: are. What did they say that got you to think they were a better solution for

gerry_obrion: you than we were. What mistakes did we make? What did they proactively do?

gerry_obrion: That was right. That convinced you. Um, and what are we? What are? What are we

gerry_obrion: doing that that? Now that you’re with them, that you wish that they were doing

gerry_obrion: insight, insight, insight. That’s what drives everything.

david_horsager: And that drives the. because,

gerry_obrion: Then, yeah, then yeah, then your. Your outcome is clear. Oh, you want this,

gerry_obrion: this, this and this, and what I generally do, David is what? What I do this

gerry_obrion: with the company. We’ll end up with thirty to sixty insights. Pieces of

gerry_obrion: information about what customers care about. Those will get narrowed to six to

gerry_obrion: ten that really drive decisions. Then you? That’s where you make your

gerry_obrion: outcomes. Your promises come from those top six, seven, eight insights. Now

gerry_obrion: they might be different throughout the sales process. The c e O might care

gerry_obrion: about something different than the C. f. O than the engineering team. There’s

gerry_obrion: all different insights you might be dealing with, but you take that and then

gerry_obrion: you turn it into a promise. What we hear you saying is you want this. We

gerry_obrion: promise this. That’s because you insert your piece of proof, Easy, easy, but a

gerry_obrion: lot of companies don’t do it

david_horsager: right, I can totally see it all over the place. Can you tell me a few

david_horsager: others? Can you give us a few more examples of like Papa Johns, Oh,

david_horsager: Thecause, we get it right away. Are there some other examples you can throw

david_horsager: out there? and I know everybody needs to know this by your people because

david_horsager: they buy you, because this is the book coming out this spring? Everybody

david_horsager: needs to be

david_horsager: looking for. We will be amplifying it and letting people know I love this

david_horsager: message. but by they bu, the bacause,

gerry_obrion: and you will start to see this everywhere. Wh, why I? You know if you’re

gerry_obrion: watching, you know football or whatever, and you’re watching T V ads. I know

gerry_obrion: everyone hates T V commercials, but watch one.

gerry_obrion: any T V commercial from a big major billion dollar brand will have pieces of

gerry_obrion: proof in it and you’ll see it all the time. Oh, because you know I. i. i, and

gerry_obrion: it’s great if you’ve ever seen like a a commercial for say, uh, uh, like

gerry_obrion: shampoo, and they’ve got the visual of how it’s going to go in and do. It’s

gerry_obrion: the little pieces of proof. Oh, there’s one Uh, that came out recently for

gerry_obrion: like an, an aspirin, or tylonolll, or something, And you’ll you’ll You might

gerry_obrion: even remember this. It says Because we have laser drilled holes. It like makes

gerry_obrion: your head it go away. laser drilled holes. Now, let me give you an example

gerry_obrion: that I just reminded me of myself of. I do this with my audiences. I say,

gerry_obrion: let’s take a low interest category. How about

gerry_obrion: floor mats for your car? Now, David. you’re an audience of one here. Can you

gerry_obrion: name any company that makes floormats for your car?

gerry_obrion: Okay, you can’t now in. I mean even tiny audiences. they always say one name

gerry_obrion: and all the all your listeners are reviewers are. S saying this right now,

gerry_obrion: Weather tech. Whether David weather tech, now you’ve heard of Weather Tech

gerry_obrion: floorliners, right, David?

gerry_obrion: Do you? And so we’re looking for there? Because now I want your audience to

gerry_obrion: think about this. Well, why would you buy and I asked my audiences this all

gerry_obrion: the time. Why would you buy a weather type floor liner versus any other floor

gerry_obrion: liner? And regularly they all say the same thing. Because, and if you’ve ever

gerry_obrion: seen one of their T V commercials, one hundred percent of their T V

gerry_obrion: commercials have this in them, they say, Because theyre laser measured

gerry_obrion: and you go. And And but what? Well, what’s the outcome? Well, the outcome is

gerry_obrion: it fits your car perfectly, so the snow and the mud stay in your car and not

gerry_obrion: on your carpet. That’s because weather tech flowor liners are laser measured

gerry_obrion: to fit your exact model of your car. Perfectly

gerry_obrion: okay. let’s be real, David. Do they really need to laser measure? No, they can

gerry_obrion: just get the speck from the car manufacture. I’m sure right, but no, that is

gerry_obrion: their piece of proof and they have built a massive company that now makes all

gerry_obrion: sorts of different products on one specific, because being because their laser

gerry_obrion: measured, and there’s example after example out there of people finishing the

gerry_obrion: sentence of influence, and a lot of times audiences will say well, Jerry do? I

gerry_obrion: just need one because, because it’s got a blue liner, because it’s laser

gerry_obrion: measured, Because we use better ingredients

gerry_obrion: in real companies that sell real things in complicated markets. You might have

gerry_obrion: six or eight different becauseuses that get used during your the course of

gerry_obrion: your sales process, depending on who you’re talking to. If you’re uh getting

gerry_obrion: out getting employees, you might have a few different becas. You might have

gerry_obrion: three or four, five different things that make your company special versus all

gerry_obrion: the other companies where people are considering Uh working. So what I want

gerry_obrion: the audience to think about is who are you influencing in the moment?

gerry_obrion: What are their insights and what is the pieces of proof that you can deliver

gerry_obrion: on those insights. Now that might vary throughout the course of your sales

gerry_obrion: process, There might be two or three things that person cares about and can

gerry_obrion: you deliver proof on each one of those things? The big mistake is making a

gerry_obrion: promise with no backup,

david_horsager: no proof.

gerry_obrion: no proof, because it sounds like fluff.

gerry_obrion: Ah, and so so you’re You’re in? I. I give this example of time and you’re in

gerry_obrion: the trust world. I mean, you’re the expert on trust.

david_horsager: Yeah, I got a little problem with you. You built the whole course thing

david_horsager: basically at, but it isn’t any cold than anywhere else. And yet you sold a

david_horsager: hundred million accent and it’s not real. It’s like you. Just you know.

gerry_obrion: I? Yeah, so, but the the worst thing you can say and people put this on their

gerry_obrion: websites. Hey, you should do business with us because you can trust us and

david_horsager: Yeah. No, just trust me that. Yeah, nobody trust the person that says. Just

gerry_obrion: your brain goes.

david_horsager: trust me

gerry_obrion: Just trust me Right until you give the piece of proof. Oh, you can trust us

gerry_obrion: because you know we special. I, I give an example of a tiny little auto repair

gerry_obrion: shop and here’s an example of how you can create A. because David tie little

gerry_obrion: lot, a repair shop. He opens up his doors and he serves in his sign. He

gerry_obrion: specializes David in two kinds of cars. The big sign says imports and

gerry_obrion: domestics, Yep, Brit’s pretty much everything right. And so he didn’t have

gerry_obrion: very many customers And then he realized the customers that were coming in the

gerry_obrion: neighborhood. A lot of them drove Audi and Volkswagens, so he ended up

gerry_obrion: specializing and narrowing his focus to say we specialize in Audiian

gerry_obrion: Volkswagens. Well then he got the big insight, he said Jerry. The big inside

gerry_obrion: is, there’s a lot of customers out there that don’t want to pay to go to the

gerry_obrion: dealership, but they do want to go to someone who specializes in their kind of

gerry_obrion: car. He tripled his business in eighteen months by narrowing his focus and it

gerry_obrion: get it. Get people are afraid of making a bad decision. And if you narrow your

gerry_obrion: focus and you do something specifically for them, Oh, you specialize in Audi

gerry_obrion: and Volkswagens, I can trust you. I believe you. I believe you can fix my car.

gerry_obrion: I believe you can probably fix my car more efficiently than someone else, and

gerry_obrion: I believe you’re going to be less pricey than the dealership specificity is an

gerry_obrion: of how you can create it because an increased trust and increased certainty

gerry_obrion: that you’re not making a bad call right. So

david_horsager: so good.

gerry_obrion: that’s Those are examples of how you can create a. Because, out of out of thin

gerry_obrion: air, really, and

david_horsager: Tell us the book titles going to be what the book titles going to be again.

gerry_obrion: it it’s go to be called, They buy. your. Because, closing the sale in a

gerry_obrion: crowded market, I work with a lot of industries that are very crowded. very

gerry_obrion: commodized. I mean plumbers, roofers,

gerry_obrion: home builders, um, techn. I mean technology. everyone is building the latest

gerry_obrion: greatest kind of technology Right. What makes yours? What’s makes your

gerry_obrion: identity verification different than the one down the down, the Internet,

gerry_obrion: right, Um, a law firms, I mean, everyone’s out there saying you know, we’ll

gerry_obrion: get you millions of dollars. What? Why am I going to pick one firm versus

gerry_obrion: another firm? Um, crowded crowded industries.

david_horsager: This is great and I’ve heard you before and seen this, and it just

david_horsager: brain bending for me. So there’s a lot more to us, but Jerry. We’re going to

david_horsager: get personal for a second before we do. Where can people find out about you?

gerry_obrion: What big brands? No Dot Com? So it’s a long, U. r. l. And if you type in

gerry_obrion: Jerry O’brion with an O n, o B r i o, n. I’m like the only one in the world.

gerry_obrion: So but what big brands know, Dot Com is my website. and uh, there’s videos

gerry_obrion: videos there. There’s a Bec video that. If you click on the little box on the

gerry_obrion: home page, Uh, it will take you through a five minute, um, live, uh session,

gerry_obrion: keenno, where I clipped out the because part because that’s what everyone

gerry_obrion: wants to see. I. I. I. I put it on Link, and it got like eleven thousand views

gerry_obrion: in the first week. I’m like. Wow, People really want

gerry_obrion: to know. This information is pretty fun.

david_horsager: well, you, you know, everybody can find out more than just go to trust the

david_horsager: Leader show Dot com. All kinds of show Notes from this episode links to Jerry

david_horsager: O’brion. We’re going to be seeing him more coming up. but let’s let’s uh,

david_horsager: just a a few minutes here on personal because I think I have a big belief.

david_horsager: Of course, all we deal with is is trust in leaders brands organizations

david_horsager: around the world, and most of the leaders I work with that are doing well

david_horsager: that are influencing others well, are also leading themselves well. So what

david_horsager: are you? What do you doing in Personally Mean you get. you got to be on some

david_horsager: big stage stages. You going to be in some significant boardrooms. What do

david_horsager: you? What do you do to lead yourself well personally, physically

david_horsager: emotionally. What do you know?

david_horsager: health wise? I don’t know.

gerry_obrion: yeah, so so you know I, I’ve been a runner since high school and all that

gerry_obrion: and physical and workout, But you know what has been great for me, David. and

gerry_obrion: you, uh, love animals and being out on the farm. And and so I have a little

gerry_obrion: property in Denver, Colorado. It’s in the metro, but it is a grandfathered

gerry_obrion: little horse property. but I don’t have horses. I’ve got four Nigerian dwarf

gerry_obrion: goats and I’ve got ducks and chickens and two behives and bunnies. that that

gerry_obrion: uh that run around the property. And uh, lately I learned here’s a piece of

gerry_obrion: trivia for you. Do you know what a group of rats is called? It’s called a y.

gerry_obrion: I. I had no idea I looked. It’s call a mischief. I have a mischief of pack

gerry_obrion: rats who have decided to live underneath my chicken feeding pens, so I’m

gerry_obrion: trying to figure out to do with them. So I have all these animals and what I

gerry_obrion: discovered especially drink covet. So I walk my goats and I live kind of in

gerry_obrion: the cities, But there’s dog, uh, trails and horse trails and all this stuff

gerry_obrion: all over the place. So I walk my goats and this is the funniest thing. I walk

gerry_obrion: them off leash. And you can see these people walking their dogs. They’re far

gerry_obrion: away and they’re looking. They’re going well, Gosh, Why is his animals awful

gerry_obrion: all off leash? And they get closer and they realize they’re not dogs. They’re

gerry_obrion: goats and then they’re like. I wonder if there’s a leash law for goats and

gerry_obrion: they nobody knows, And then they’re just so distracted by the fact that

gerry_obrion: there’s four goats walking along and then they all go Gosh. Your goats are

gerry_obrion: better off leash than my dog is on leash.

gerry_obrion: And so I spend a lot of time with my animals and walking with them and drink

gerry_obrion: covet. Especially, I realize it was so great for me. Like that connection to

gerry_obrion: animals is something I’ve discovered in the last few years and it has really

gerry_obrion: been emotionally a great balance for me.

david_horsager: fun. What about any? any resource? as far as input that you like to put in

david_horsager: either a good book lately or great podcast or something you’re putt in to

david_horsager: keep standing, fresh, relevant and capable. As far as you know what you’re

david_horsager: thinking about,

gerry_obrion: Well, you know what? I, um. I th. The truth is I don’t follow a lot of

gerry_obrion: podcasts and I get what I do from my c, e os that I’m I’m in in, literally

gerry_obrion: board roomoms every single week, and I’m get at keeping my pulse on the world

gerry_obrion: through people that that I’m interacting with, So I don’t spend a lot of time

gerry_obrion: uh with with listening to a lot of those things. I’m li. I’ve created a

gerry_obrion: listening organization of listening to the people on the front lines, and you

gerry_obrion: know and you, we’re all hearing the same things. How do I hire? How do I hire?

gerry_obrion: How do I hire

gerry_obrion: right? And that’s what’s going on right now for people. that. uh, so I don’t

gerry_obrion: have a great list of Re sources that I that I point people to.

david_horsager: No problem. So what about one big hope? Any, Any hope for the? let’s say the

david_horsager: next five or ten years for Jerry O’brion

gerry_obrion: Oh, yeah. well, I, the as I do. and this is something I’m going to ask for

gerry_obrion: David’s help with My framework has been honed for a decade. C, E O’s executive

gerry_obrion: sales teams are loving it and starting to implement it. Really, a many, many

gerry_obrion: companies are starting to implement the framework. I need to take that to the

gerry_obrion: next level so it can expand faster without me. So how my big hope is that I

gerry_obrion: get. I. The framework gets beyond me. Other people can start to implement and

gerry_obrion: help companies do it. Because it. it’s working and now I wanted to expand

gerry_obrion: beyond me. That’s that’s the last thing I want to do in my career. I want to

gerry_obrion: get this out there so everybody can use it and implement it because it works

gerry_obrion: and I don’t need to be the one to

david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm,

gerry_obrion: do it. I needed to be to live a life beyond Jerry O’brion. That’s my hope.

david_horsager: that’s been mine for two decades on trust Right, how

david_horsager: do we get the Pi framework and trust to go much beyond me And it’s been fun

david_horsager: to see that start to happen around the world. So

david_horsager: last question,

david_horsager: Remember trust the Leader show Dot com For the show, notes all the links to

david_horsager: Jerry’s cite, and exactly how to spell his name correctly,

david_horsager: and this a little bit more about this framework. So, last question it, the

david_horsager: trusted leader show who is the leader you trust and why?

gerry_obrion: I’m going to give you someone off the beaten path, someone that

gerry_obrion: most people probably haven’t heard of when I graduated from undergrad

gerry_obrion: University of Wisconsin. My first job ever was in in real estate appraisal, I

gerry_obrion: appraised manufacturing facilities all over the country, and the gentleman who

gerry_obrion: was the president of the company. His name is Andy Groonick. He was the kind

gerry_obrion: of leader who cared You knew he cared about you

gerry_obrion: about the individual about the person.

david_horsager: How do you know? how do you know?

gerry_obrion: Well, and it turns out that it’s really true because I worked for his company

gerry_obrion: for four years and I still have a relationship with him. In fact, he is a

gerry_obrion: leader that is, has gone beyond his original. He eventually sold the company

gerry_obrion: in La. Maybe three years ago, whatever the number of years goes, he ran for

gerry_obrion: governor for the state of Wisconsin,

gerry_obrion: And you know there was, you know, fifteen people in the primaries and he

gerry_obrion: didn’t make it all the way through to the end, But he would be a great leader

gerry_obrion: because he’s a leader beyond

gerry_obrion: it, it’s about the people and the things that matter. It’s not a. It wasn’t

gerry_obrion: never about the only about the money. it wasn’t about the business, it was

gerry_obrion: more about. I want to help you grow, and when I, I remember the day I told him

gerry_obrion: I was leaving the company and he couldn’t have been happier for me to go off

gerry_obrion: and go to business school and go to the next adventure. And he stayed in touch

gerry_obrion: with me for my whole life.

david_horsager: Hm, hm, hm, Hm,

gerry_obrion: A guy who’s the president of a company, the first one that ever gave you the

gerry_obrion: Yep, you get to work here, the first job straight out of school. That’s the

gerry_obrion: kind of leader I want to be. Somebody really actually cares about the people

gerry_obrion: and stays in touch with him. And it’s for real. It’s not just. Oh, you were

gerry_obrion: great while

david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,

gerry_obrion: you were here, but now I don’t care.

david_horsager: that is a good word. Well, Jerry O’brion thank you for being my friend.

david_horsager: Thanks for being on the show today. That has been the trusted leaders show

david_horsager: until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 62: 2021 Best Of Moments Of The Trusted Leader Show

In this episode, join Kent Svenson, producer of The Trusted Leader Show, as he takes you through some of the best moments from the past year on The Trusted Leader Show.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Links To Episodes Mentioned In The Episode:
Ep. 20 with Horst Schulze: https://apple.co/32cxg0E
Ep. 46 with M. Gasby Brown: https://apple.co/3yxQxpC
Ep. 50 with Jay Baer: https://apple.co/3E7MoK9
Ep. 22 with Susan Sly: https://apple.co/3qoa8Fd
Ep. 25 with Bob Stromberg: https://apple.co/3E4Exx4
Ep. 59 with Ryan Leak: https://apple.co/3q8ytOO
Ep. 43 with Cheryl Bachelder: https://apple.co/3yCCWxp
Ep. 42 with Bobby Herrera: https://apple.co/3sdqgf3

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: The welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m your host, David Horsager. Join me as I sit down with influential leaders from around the world to discuss why leaders and organizations fail top tactics for high performance and how you can become an even more trusted leader.

Kent Svenson: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And today we have a very special episode for you. This is the 62nd and last episode of 2021. We have thoroughly enjoyed sharing each of these 62 episodes with you. We have people be listening from all over the world across almost 70 countries, 50 states and six continents. And by the way, if you or someone you know, is gonna be going to Antarctica, we would love to make it seven outta seven continents. But seriously though, on behalf of David, myself, and the entire team, we just wanna say, thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing each of these episodes with your family, with your friends, your employees, customers, and clients. Thank you for reviewing the show and thank you for all of your feedback and comments. We could not do this without you.

Kent Svenson: So thank you. But as this is the last episode of 2021, we thought it’d be fun to take a quick look back on some of the best moments from the year. So we put together a compilation of best moments from some of our most popular episodes and from some of the episodes we’ve gotten the most feedback and comments on and put it together in a compilation for you. So sit back, relax and enjoy a compilation of best moments from the 2021, the trusted leader show of first, we have Horst Schulze from episode 20, where he talks about the three universal expectations of the customer.

David Horsager: You talk about three universals. Tell us about those.

Horst Schulze: Well, the, the, the expectation of the customer, I guess that’s what we talk about. Yeah. The, well, yes, let’s say universal the market. You can look at the market over there. What is a market of potential market? And you, there are two or three things for sure they want, so you better have processes and systems on measurements if you deliver it. And that’s a subconscious expectation, like what you have anybody has, you want the product to be defect free. You know, te I always use an example of bottle of water. If you buy a bottle of water, you don’t want anything to swim in there. You expect, subconsciously is defect free. Number two, very important, by the way, and you have to underline it 10 times. It’s timeliness. Everything today is very important that your timely responses that you, you, you want that bottle of water when you want it.

Horst Schulze: And you want an immediate answer to your email, et cetera, that timeliness. So not effect timeliness, and number three, what you want the want, the people that give it to you, the bottle of water or whatever it is to be nice to you to care for you. Now, here’s the, here’s the crazy thing. I mean, and I, and why businesses don’t get that? The greatest driver of eventual satisfaction, even loyalty is the caring piece, which means you have to, you have to process and make sure that there’s excellence and relationship between your employees, between you and those that buy from you. The, the product is not creating loyalty. Loyalty is nothing but trust. They trust you. They they’re three times of customer. Very first I said, they wanna distrust you, who are, who are, uh, who are terrorist against your company. Now they going social media, did whatever destroy you. Then the loyal done it, the satisfied one, they got night next door. If they, they think there’s a better deal. And then there’s the one that are loyal to you. Why they loyal, they’re trusting you and trust is not created with a product is created with the relationship moment.

David Horsager: Only the relationship.

Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 46, we have M Gasby Brown, where she talks about the importance of racial literacy, humility, and sustainability in bringing about change and diversity that allows each of us to be able to enjoy the great benefits of diversity.

David Horsager: Let’s jump to DE&I, it’s a big topic, DEI and justice, some say in belonging the, these days, but diversity equity inclusion. Um, you know, we talk about trust and it’s you, you can’t, it seems like you can’t have the best kind. At least there was a, there was a study on diversity, uh, har massive Harvard Putnam study that showed kind of diversity that diversity, many kinds on its own tends to pit people against each other, unless you increase trust. So we’re all about how do we increase trust to get the best of that? We know there, you know, we know there is greatness in diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, justice. So how do we increase trust, uh, so that we away the best of this beautiful array of diversity, but I’d like to talk to you, how do you, how do you tackle the E and I in a way, or how can we as leaders maybe even think differently about it so that we increase trust and get the best of diversity?

M. Gasby Brown: Boy, that’s a great question, David. Um, the onus is really more on the learn than the learn it in this case, in my mind. And so it really comes down to, and I will deal with the racial part of it because there’s so many moving parts to de DEI and justice. Uh, there needs to be, uh, racial literacy, a curiosity that, uh, to learn and openness to learn and to be a lifelong learner about the various historical issues that have led us to where we are now with regard to racial equity, there needs to also be in my mind, I kind of deal with three RS, RS, and CS, and what have you. But another R would be, uh, racial humility. There are some people who feel that they have read a few books and they have watched a couple of movies and documentaries, and now they know all they need to know. And they maybe attended a couple of DEI trainings and they know they feel that they know all there is to know about, uh, racial reckoning and what’s going on, but that is the wrong attitude. The attitude has to be humility where you are putting yourselves in the position to always be open to learning new things and more. And then the, the racial sustainability that you’re in this for the long haul. This is not just a flash point in history, but this is an opportunity

Kent Svenson: Next up from 50, we have Jay Baer where he talks about why word of mouth is critical for business growth and why every business needs to have a word of mouth strategy.

Jay Baer: Dave, the, the premise is this. We trust people more than we trust any leader or organization or government or media. Um, we trust each other most. And we always have going all the way back to caveman days where somebody said, well, who, which caveman sells the sharpest? You know, arrowheads like, well, you know, glog, he’s the man, right? I mean, it’s the, it’s the recommendations from, from your peers are the ones that carry the most weight and the fundamental premise of the book. And while it’s really written for, for a, a business kind of company, uh, perspective, it applies to individuals and, and, and speakers and parents and spouses as well. The premise is that the best way to grow any business or any audience or trust is for your customers to do that growing for you. And I think we all know that to be true, right?

Jay Baer: Like if you ask businesses, Hey, how important is word of mouth to your business? They will all say important all of them yet. And this part is the thing that makes this book so important. Nobody has an actual strategy to do it. That the actual data from John Jan is that fewer than 1% of all businesses have an actual word of mouth strategy, fewer than 1% yet you’ve got a strategy for everything else, right? You got a, you got a, a leadership strategy, a trust strategy. If you follow Dave and you should, you’ve got a PR strategy, crisis strategy, hiring strategy, you know, diversity strategy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, marketing strategy, of course, social media strategy. But the one thing you don’t have a strategy for is perhaps the most important thing at all of all, which is why should people tell your story?

David Horsager: I think the most, something really interesting that seems like almost a, a contradiction at first, we’ve got this guy, one of the, one of the most sought after thought leaders in the world on digital and marketing mm-hmm and you hear so much, you know, Shaza in those spaces and hear, Jay bear is saying, it is all about word of mouth. That’s the, as much as you’ve done in the space of digital, and by the way, you can use digital. Uh, but it, this whole, this whole piece of kind of what I loved about it is that it got back to truth, to authenticity, to know what are real people really saying, not, um, we did it, you know, in our study, we found that continually like reviews online reviews are tanking because people don’t trust them. Whereas, uh, what you hear from someone specifically that, you know, is that trust is going up immensely. And I, I think that’s just, it it’s really interesting in this space, right? Yeah.

Jay Baer: You’re exactly right. There is more, uh, online word of mouth now, uh, than ever before, because of social media, the prevalence of ratings and review sites, et cetera. So, so mathematically, the volume of online word of mouth is higher, especially in the pandemic, because there’s just not as many occasions for offline word of mouth than there, uh, compared to pre pandemic, however, the impact of offline word of mouth, uh, somebody you actually know at your kid’s soccer game, or what have you is higher because you have that existing relationship with the person who was passing the story along. And, and people ask me a lot, Dave, like, well, okay, I don’t get this. If, if businesses know that word of mouth is important, how is it then that they don’t have a strategy for it? Like what, I mean, you know, this it’s 20, 22, almost like, you know, word of mouth’s been around for thousands of years.

Jay Baer: How is it that people don’t have a strategy? And, and here’s why almost every business or leader makes the same mistake. And the mistake is believing that competency creates conversation. That if you run a good organization or you are trusted, and you’re good at execution, that that naturally people will notice that and will talk about it. And that seems right on paper. It does, but it’s not actually right in the real world because that’s not how human beings behave. Every person in the world, including you and me and everybody tuning in is wired the same way. We are wired to discuss things that are different and ignore things that are expected.

Jay Baer: Let me tell you about this experience I had last night, it was perfectly adequate said nobody in history, right? If I went over here and inflict the switch and these lights went off in my office, I wouldn’t be like, Dave, you won’t believe what happened when I hit these, the switch, the lights went off. You know why? Because that’s how lights work. And we all know that. So there, isn’t a story there. Word of mouth is just a story and you being good at your job. Isn’t a story because that’s what they expect, right? That’s why it’s really, really hard for restaurants, for example, to create word of mouth around food quality and sort of tastiness, unless it’s just a beyond, beyond crazy, because guess what? If you’re buying a meal and a restaurant, you expect it to be good. That’s the whole point, right? So you do, don’t get conversational credit for doing exactly what customers expect you to do. And that’s the mistake. Everybody makes. They just focus on competency, which is important. Don’t get me wrong. Competency keeps your customers, but competency doesn’t create stories cuz it’s just like, yeah, of course they do that. Right? Sure.

Anne Engstrom: Hey everyone, a quick interruption here to share some big news, April 12th, through the 14th, you are invited to the trusted leader summit. What makes a powerful event is bringing together amazing people in a way that actually makes an impact in the world. We’re talking about a get together that is packed with immediately useful content. You’ll hear from top leaders like John Foley, the former lead solo pilot for the blue angels, Harvard profess us are Allison Shapira and more incredible global experts. Get your tickets before they’re gone at trusted leaders, summit.com and join us in becoming even more trusted leaders. We can’t wait to see you there.

Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 22, we have Susan Sly where she talks about how to lock in the desire to actually build a new habit.

David Horsager: So take, let’s go back to habits. One step, you know, how do you build a new one? Like if you’re, if you’re starting with a new habit, like feeling like, well, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna start running every day, but then they get to tomorrow and it doesn’t become a habit. As you know, um, most people wouldn’t do what you did. They’re gassed after a hundred yards and they went back to bed the next day. So breaking through and building a new habit, any tips?

Susan Sly: Sure. That’s a, an amazing question. It’s it really starts with desire and, and here are my tips for locking, uh, you know, really locking down that desire. It’s number one is ask yourself the question precisely, what is the habit? Define it. Clearly I wanna run for 30 minutes a day, not I wanna running, um, you know, I’ll chase you down the street, you’ll start running, but it might not become a habit. Like be very clear. Number two is what is the benefit to you of developing this habit and, and list as many as you can. And then number three is what is the detriment? If you don’t develop the habit and then number four is who in your life is suffering because you don’t have this habit.

Susan Sly: And then the fifth thing is what will this habit mean to you? Five or 10 years down the road? Because it’s the compound of fact like Darren Hardy talks about. So I’ll give you an example. So if viewers can see me, I’ve got, in my hand, it’s a glass made the USA glass bottle. It’s empty of groupy green stuff. So last year I decided David I’m like, you know what? I need to have more fresh fruits and vegetables. The framing he study, um, is the longest study done on cardiovascular health. But as an ancillary, um, finding, they found that if you consume five to seven servings of fresh fruits and vegetables a day, it reduces your risk of cancer, uh, all kinds by 70%. So I was going through my day, eating, you know, eating, having protein shakes and, you know, raw all and all that good stuff.

Susan Sly: But I realized I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. So I decided what I was gonna do on Sunday is I was gonna take, um, you know, greens. I was gonna take organic celery, lemon juice in the vitamin mix. I was gonna mix this all up and I was gonna, um, fill five jars one for every day of the week. And, um, I was gonna grab them and, and that’s what I did now. It was really inconvenient because I had to like dedicate that time on Sunday to making this Gloo green drink. And then the second thing was I had to figure out a way to make this a habit that it was so convenient that I had no excuse, like even running outta my house to my office. I could just grab it outta the fridge and I, I could go. So that was a habit I developed last year. And now it’s so ingrained in me because I’m going, the detriment is the benefit is I reduce my risk of cancer. And then the detriment is, if I don’t do this, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe I could get cancer. Right. And you think about all the people in my life that benefit. That’s just an example.

David Horsager: I love it. Great, great five step process.

Kent Svenson: Next from episode 25, we have Bob Stromberg where he talks about the two words that describe creativity and why all of us can be creative.

David Horsager: Tell us about this. How did you become so creative and, uh, give us a little window into that slice of your life.

Bob Stromberg: Five or six years ago. Um, uh, well, it was, it was September 15th of, uh, 2015. I was right here in the basement of this house, digging through some boxes of books and, uh, looking for some books. And I found some old work calendars, a pile of ’em about like this and the Earl one went back to 1975. And I thought to myself, I wonder what I was doing on September 15th, 2015, 40 years to the date earlier. And so I opened it up at to 2015, I mean to two to 1975, which was 40 years earlier. And there was my first professional booking with my friend, Michael. And, uh, I CA I came upstairs. I said to my wife, Judy, Judy, this is like a celebration. I mean, the anniversary we should be celebrating. And she said, huh. And that was the extent of the celebration right there.

Bob Stromberg: That was . That was all there was. But I, that got me thinking when I realized, oh my goodness, I have done this. Full-time self-employed never had a job, never had an employer who paid, well, I thousands of them, but never, never an employer that I was working for steadily. Uh, how have I done that? And I realized that I have been utilizing this thing called creativity. And I also realized I had never given a lot of thought to what it actually is and how it works. And I started thinking about all these plays that I had written all recently, uh, been writing a screenplay and the comedy material and lots and lots of music that I’ve written through the years, all these creative things, what do they have in common? Where did they come from? How did they come to be? And I realized that, and this took a, this took a number of months of thinking about this, really working through it.

Bob Stromberg: I realized that every thing that I have created came from a place and through a process and the place that the place that these things came from, the songs, the plays, the comedy routines, the bits, the one liners, they came from what I call my creative reservoir, which you have as well. And they came through a process, uh, and the process is called creativity. And I believe that, uh, that there are two words. You, you need two words to really describe what creativity actually is. And I believe that two words are gift and craft. Usually we think of creativity being a gift. People say, oh, I couldn’t be creative. My, my brother was, is sore. He really had a gift of creativity, but I just never had that. Um, and, and I say, well, you, uh, you, you had something because when you were a child, you demonstrate it that here’s the deal.

Bob Stromberg: I really believe that the gift, you, you you’re born with something creativity, but you’re not born creative. Here’s what I think the gift is David. The gift that, that we are all born with, all of us is a, a desire and a capacity to experience creativity. So I, we come out of the womb that way with a desire and a capacity to experience it. And we open up that gift immediately when we’re born. I mean, the first thing that you within weeks, you’re, you’re learning that you can roll from. I don’t know if it’s weeks, like can’t remember, it’s been so long since my kids, even my grandkids were that small. So I thought you were gonna say, it’s been so long since you rolled over for the first time. that’s right. But to roll from your back to your front boy, that was exciting.

Bob Stromberg: You couldn’t wait to do that. It’s a little scary to do that. You can see, you can see the baby’s eyes just, did I just do that? That’s experience in creativity, getting up on your knees and rocking back and forth. Oh boy, that’s fun. And then piling up blocks at some point, and then knocking ’em over. It, it, all of this was play or, or, uh, taking that Cray and rubbing it across the paper, making those marks on the paper was so fun or is it was the case in my family with our four year old, who is, who is now a remarkable artist and was then to take that pink magic marker and coloring in all color in all the, the white flowers on mom and dad’s new couch. That was an exciting, that was an exciting day at our, our family. All of this was what we refer to and what psychologists call and, and child development people call play.

Bob Stromberg: It was just play, but it was all creativity. It was all creative, incredible, um, um, demonstration of creativity. So the question is, well, where does that go? Because so many people say, I’m, I’m not creative. I couldn’t create anything. I mean, I’m, I have no idea what I would do. I can’t create anything. You know, I’m just not a creative person you used to be. So where did it go? And I believe, um, and, and I, I, I believe it gets educated right out of us in the Western world. I think it’s just, it’s just the downside of our educational system. A lot of good things about our educational system, but not in this regard of creativity, because in school we learn very early on when we’re taking a test or a quiz or an exam, we have to write in, in the right word, in the fill in the blank, it’s gotta be the right word.

Bob Stromberg: Or if it’s a multiple choice, you have to, you have to circle the right answer. Or if you, if it’s a math problem, you have to add those numbers all up and divide it and do this and, and the POTUS of whatever. And it’s gotta be to down to the, down to the right decimal point in number. It’s gotta be perfect. And if it’s not, it gets a big red mark on it. And we deal with our feelings about, uh, about getting those red marks on our paper. And we very early, um, realize, um, that were not as creative as we used to be. Things are not as fun as they used to be. Creativity does not work that way. Creativity is not about finding the right answer. Creativity is about trying many, many potential answers. Some of them, which are really not good answers at all, but to try them, um, and something else comes out of it.

Bob Stromberg: Uh, you, you almost can’t fail with creativity because you’re not looking at the outcome. You’re looking at the process. So to, to engage in the process, um, even if it’s to try lots of things. In other words, you don’t need to get the one right answer. So therefore, I think there’s another word. This necess sir, gift is the first one. I think the other word to describe what creativity is and how it works. Then the other important word is craft. Creativity is a craft. It’s a process that you go through. And as you go through this process, you begin to, this is a wonderful side benefit. You begin to fill up your creative reservoir. So there’s, there’s always something there you don’t need to worry about. Writer’s block. You don’t need to worry about not being able. What am I gonna do now? It’s all, you’ve got lots of stuff ready to go. And, but you need to understand what the process is.

Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 59, we have Ryan Leak where he talks about why all of us should be chasing failure.

David Horsager: You know, if I look at your life and what you’re about, you’ve done some amazing things, but it is marked by this risk, taking this willingness to chase failure. And I love what you say in the book. Even basically the, the only people you admire, the people you love, the people you look up to, they all failed. And yet we’re all sitting here thinking we wanna get around the failure. We wanna, and, and you kind of make this, this point of let’s chase failure. If we wanna be like that.

Ryan Leak: Absolutely. You just, I think we all, if let’s say we’re a songwriter, we all wanna write a hit song. You only wanna write hits, but you gotta write some bad songs to get a hit song. You gotta miss some shots to make some shots. I mean, it’s all a part of, it’s all a part of the process. No matter anybody in this world that wants to do anything, uh, they have to try things. And I think the last three years, somebody said this to me the other day, they said, I’m not sure if I’m ready for my junior of COVID. And I just thought, has it been that long? It really has. But I’d like to say the last three years have really taught us that if, if you’re not innovating, if you are not thinking outside the box, you may not survive in this marketplace that, that we work in because things are constantly changing. And most people don’t like change. And COVID 19 did not ask us for permission. Right? And so I think people now more than ever have to be willing to try some things and take some risk.

Kent Svenson: Next from episode 43, we have Cheryl Bachelder, where she talks about why we should be training leaders to be stewards.

David Horsager: I, I picked this up in, in your book and it’s a subtlety E but it, it, it’s not, I’m gonna get into some principles in the book, but it’s a subtlety of how you say things that made me just so impressed with who you are and the word, um, you said it already, oh, you said stewards. It’s it’s, it’s not this feeling of these are the people I lead. It’s. These are the people. In fact, you said in the book several times, I can’t remember the wording, but something like these are the per people I’m, I’m charged with leading, or I’m I’m given to lead, or I’m, I’m kind of called to steward and it’s, it’s like the investor I’m, we’re there to steward. We’re not that it’s, it’s, it’s such a different feel of humility. And I, I know you’ve been influenced by, uh, you said it there with Collins level five with a, you know, humility with ambition, but, you know, tell us where that, that humility came from. That seems genuine. And that is something I see missing in the leaders. I walk, you know, alongside that I’m consulting or working with.

Cheryl Bachelder: Well, I, I agree, uh, it’s largely absent. It’s culturally absent to, um, honor and uphold, uh, stewardship as a leadership trait, in fact, so much. So today I was being interviewed by a large, big four, um, accounting firm that you would recognize then on the subject of ESG, uh, which one of the aspects of ESG is governance in board rooms. And he said, what thing are we not measuring in the boardroom that we should be measuring? And I said, you should be measuring the steward. The development of leaders as stewards and reason is because we have very few people with that mindset. And yet we’re entrusting huge groups of people and huge amounts of resources to leaders in large companies or institutions, any institution you pick, right? And there’s no training up of stewardship, belief, values in behaviors, right. And our leaders. So why are we surprised that they don’t steward it?

Cheryl Bachelder: Well, why are we surprised that they don’t create an environment where people feel treated with dignity? We shouldn’t be surprised we’re not training it up. Uh, we’re not expecting it. We’re not measuring it. Like we do everything else in the business world. Right. And so I, I use the word entrusted. I believe people and resources have been tr entrusted to my care as a leader. And my responsibility is to steward them well. Um, and if I steward them, well, maybe I should get paid well and do well in life, but that’s not the motive. The, the motive is I, I am a leader who, uh, has been entrusted with much and, and should steward it to its best possible outcome. I’m not in control of everything so far. Right. But I should steward best I can, uh, to a better outcome. So what does that look like in practice?

Cheryl Bachelder: I think it’s real important to say, how do you do that? Not just philosophy. Um, and my whole premise that Popeyes that the, that the book is written around is what if we led this company as if the franchise owner who invested in the store, the people, the community was the center of the universe. And we were to take care of them and set them up for success. And I said, a million times we will measure our success by their success. That’s the only measure of my team’s success is whether those franchise owners are more prosperous when we leave than when we got here. Um, now why is that rocket science? I really wonder, right. I mean, it is a business model. They need to perform well to continue to invest in the business, to build more units or to innovate or all those ways that we invest. So why wouldn’t I as a leader, think of them as the point of service, the point of stewardship, um, but you know, franchisees in many, many organizations would tell you they are not valued. They are not created with respect their, um, prosperity’s not measured as a measure of the business success. I mean, I, I don’t get it.

Kent Svenson: And lastly, from episode 42, we have Bobby Herrera who talks about why we should always be giving more. Then we take.

David Horsager: Number three. I could pause on each of these and be, uh, moved and thinking of my, my own I’m processing as I have before with your work. But am I giving more than I’m taking?

Bobby Herrera: I think probably the best way to describe that is, uh, you know, I’m gonna borrow a quote from a gentleman whose work I’ve studied quite a bit, um, is that Jesuit priest name, Anthony Demme, uh, very, very wise, you know, spiritual and, um, uh, you know, teacher of, of just good principles. And, you know, he has a metaphor that he uses, you know, every day the son comes out and it shines and not once does a son ever say to the earth you owe me, it just gives. And, you know, I believe that one of the single most important characteristics in leadership and this applies to fatherhood to friendship is just giving more than you take. You know, you know, when you truly give, you don’t wait for a third act, you know, you give the person receives. And too often, I believe, you know, we wait for a third act, we keep a scorecard, or we want something in return, but that’s not really giving, you know, our cup should be full by shining. And just knowing that in giving, there are two acts giving and receiving. And when you learn to eliminate that third act, I think that’s when you’re really living and appreciating the power of giving.

Kent Svenson: That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the show notes and information on anything mentioned in today’s episode. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcast or your favorite podcast platform as this is a great way to help support the show and to help other people to discover it again on behalf of David, myself, and the entire team. We just wanna say, thank you for being a part of the trusted leader show. We can’t wait to share with you the incredible guest we have lined up for 2022, but in the meantime, thank you for being a part of the show, have a happy new year. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 61: Meridith Elliott Powell on Turning Uncertainty Into An Advantage

In this episode, David sits down with Meridith Elliott Powell, Award-Winning Author, Keynote Speaker, and Business Strategist, to discuss how to turn uncertainty into a competitive advantage.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Meridith’s Bio:
Voted one of the Top 15 Business Growth Experts to watch by Currency Fair, Meridith Elliott Powell is an award-winning author, keynote speaker and business strategist. With a background in corporate sales and leadership, her career expands over several industries including banking, healthcare and finance. Meridith worked her way up from an entry-level position to earn her seat at the C-Suite table. She is Certified Speaking Professional, a designation held by less than twelve percent of professional speakers, and a member of the prestigious Forbes Coaching Council.

She has a cutting-edge message, rooted in real-life examples and real-world knowledge. She is the author of four books, including “Winning In The Trust & Value Economy” (a finalist in the USA Best Book Awards) and her latest “Own It: Redefining Responsibility – Stories of Power, Freedom & Purpose” about how to build cultures the inspire ownership at every level to create profits at every turn. Meridith writes, speaks and is passionate about helping her clients understand everything they need to know about how to make this economy start working for them.

High energy and highly interactive, Meridith’s keynote will help leaders and business owners learn the new rules of success today. Including how today’s economy has changed, how that has changed today’s customers and employees, and specifically how that impacts your business.

In her highly engaging keynote-speaking sessions, Meridith shows her audiences how to attract more business, retain top talent, and leap into position to win in this new economy. No walking on coals, no breaking boards, just real-life strategies you can put into place first thing Monday morning.

Meridith’s Links:
Website: https://meridithelliottpowell.com/
“Thrive” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lIcyfZ
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridithelliottpowell/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/meridithelliottpowell/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/meridithpowell?lang=en
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/powellmeridithelliott/?hl=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/meridithepowell

Key Quotes:
1. “We’re always waiting for the ball to drop.”
2. “When obstacles get in front of you, if you can’t see beyond the obstacle, you get stuck.”
3. “It’s a myth that there isn’t opportunity out there. There’s so much opportunity.”
4. “In an uncertain marketplace business grows from the inside out.”
5. “You can’t attract new business until you understand the current problems your existing customers have.”
6. “We need to stop seeing responsibility as a negative and see it for the gift that it is.”
7. “Responsibility is a gift. It’s not a burden.”
8. “Build your network. It will change your life.”
9. “Confidence is a humble belief in yourself.”
10. “Confidence is built through progress not through the end result.”
11. “Who you surround yourself with is everything.”
12. “You’ve got to practice what you preach.”
13. “You give people education you can change their lives.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Thrive” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lIcyfZ
“Own It” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lLzo6N
“Who Comes Next?” by Meridith Elliott Powell and Mary C. Kelly PhD: https://amzn.to/3IyxfFe
“The Best Sales Book Ever” by Meridith Elliott Powell and Connie Podesta: https://amzn.to/3dD8glD
“The Confidence Plan” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://bit.ly/confidenceplan
“I Love Capitalism!” by Ken Langone: https://amzn.to/304JqrM

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. It’s David Horsager and I am thrilled

david_horsager: to have with us today, Meridith Elliott Powell, Thank you for being with us

meridith_elliott_powell: I’m excited to be. You’re ready for this conversation.

david_horsager: All right. Well me, you know, you’ve been an expert to so many. I was even

david_horsager: reading your top fifteen business growth expert. You are? I know you’re an

david_horsager: award winning author. I know your a word winning speaker. I know some of the

david_horsager: people you can have been seen on N B C. and you’ve got clients that are just

david_horsager: amazing, but let’s go back a little bit. Wh. Where did some of this come

david_horsager: from? And then I’m excited to jump into a specially your newest book, But

david_horsager: you know, tell us a little bit about you that we don’t know.

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, so a little bit about my journey. You know, I’ve had kind of

meridith_elliott_powell: a crazy career. A lot of people get out of college. know exactly

meridith_elliott_powell: what they want to do. I was not that person and my background

meridith_elliott_powell: includes travel and tourism, Uh, financial services and health

meridith_elliott_powell: care, and I never thought my career made a lot of sense That had

meridith_elliott_powell: worked in so many different industries until I was actually being

meridith_elliott_powell: interviewed one day and somebody said, Kind of walk us through your

meridith_elliott_powell: journey. And what I realzed was I enter companies when they’ going

meridith_elliott_powell: through massive disruption. I got into travel in tourism. when a

meridith_elliott_powell: hurricane had wiped out a community. I got into health care when

meridith_elliott_powell: huge cutbacks were coming from the government and I got into

meridith_elliott_powell: financial services when regulation hit, so where most people run

meridith_elliott_powell: away from uncertainty, I tend to run in to it, so I like disruption

meridith_elliott_powell: and change, and that kind of landed me where I am and helping

meridith_elliott_powell: companies really navigate those challenges

david_horsager: You know that gets us into this book and you’ve authored many books. but

david_horsager: this new book thrive strategies to turn uncertainty to competive advantage,

david_horsager: And I even talk about a formula for making uncertainty your competitive or

david_horsager: strategic strategic advantage. I think Hey people want to know right now what

david_horsager: I? I. I’ve you know, been getting blown away by volatility, uncertainty and

david_horsager: complexity and all this change, and I’m overwhelmed. You’re saying it can be

david_horsager: a strategic advantage? What do you mean?

meridith_elliott_powell: well for those exact reasons, you know, a couple years ago, long

meridith_elliott_powell: before we ever heard about Cove, that it was ever on the radar, I

meridith_elliott_powell: kind of became obsessed with uncertainty because every business

meridith_elliott_powell: leader I would talk to was. Saying the same thing, business is

meridith_elliott_powell: good, business is great. we’ having our best year on record. but O,

meridith_elliott_powell: this uncertainty like we always waiting for the ball to drop for

meridith_elliott_powell: the bottom to fall out. And I just started to think why does

meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty and change have to be a negative, and what could happen

meridith_elliott_powell: in your organization if you could be the leader who could create a

meridith_elliott_powell: team who believed that disruption was exactly what you needed to

meridith_elliott_powell: propel and go to another level, And that kind of turned me on. I

meridith_elliott_powell: wanted to answer that question and I just started studying

meridith_elliott_powell: organizations and businesses that had been around for at least two

meridith_elliott_powell: hundred and fifty years, and from all that research I created a

meridith_elliott_powell: nine step proven formula for what it takes to navigate any level of

meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty, whether it’s as tiny as putting in a new Crm or is as

meridith_elliott_powell: big as Uh. going through the Delta variant.

david_horsager: let’s jump into that? I mean, what are? where do we start? We’ve got this

david_horsager: uncertainty. We even have uncertainty before we even know it’s a a covet

david_horsager: right there. There’s uncertainty before we even know. There’s uh

david_horsager: uncertainty. Almost so. how do we? how do we deal that? We talk a lot about

david_horsager: building trust in the midst of change. How we do it. It’s not an easy thing,

david_horsager: but it’s critical. so where start?

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, I think it’s you know. I think it’s the same with

meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty. It’s um. It’s It’s a fairly simple formula, but it

meridith_elliott_powell: isn’t easy. But where you need to begin is you need to begin by

meridith_elliott_powell: shifting your mindset about how you think you feel and you, what

meridith_elliott_powell: you believe uncertainty to be. Um. You know, one of the most

meridith_elliott_powell: fascinating things from doing the research was that Every leader,

meridith_elliott_powell: every company you can look down through their history and how they

meridith_elliott_powell: function today is. The leader has a very clear vision on where that

meridith_elliott_powell: business is going to be and what it iss going to contribute. Um

meridith_elliott_powell: over the next year, And that’s important because when obstacles get

meridith_elliott_powell: in front of you, If you can’t see beyond the obstacle, you get

meridith_elliott_powell: stuck, right you you? You hit that obstacle and you can’t see

meridith_elliott_powell: beyond it. One of the examples I use in the book is just quickly,

meridith_elliott_powell: Martin Luther King Junior’s I have a dream speech. I can’t imagine

meridith_elliott_powell: what it was like to try to fight for civil rights and people didn’t

meridith_elliott_powell: even know if they were going to win if they were going to get them,

meridith_elliott_powell: and they would get exhausted and they would get tired. But with

meridith_elliott_powell: that speech he painted the future. he painted what could be, and

meridith_elliott_powell: that’s what gives people motivation to keep pushing through, so I

meridith_elliott_powell: call it a relentless vision. In the book, You have to be so focused

meridith_elliott_powell: and overcommunicate so that people can see beyond the crisis at

david_horsager: So how do I? You know Th this even on it own, I’m just going to, because I

david_horsager: know how brilliant you are and how you. You can handle the toughest

david_horsager: boardrooms and you been in

david_horsager: them. So And we’re friends. So you know, let’s let’s you know. There seems

david_horsager: like learning comes in the tension sometimes

david_horsager: because you know I think about this and it’s like even last year I, I had

david_horsager: the unique opportunity to be on a call with Uh. General Mcrystal.

meridith_elliott_powell: how fascinating.

david_horsager: right, you know, two months after about the, you know, it was about May of

david_horsager: the pandemic, maybe of twenty twenty, and Um, Basically a couple of things

david_horsager: he said, number one, gone or one year visions, one year, mission statement,

david_horsager: kind of deal. as as an idea, he said, basically, um, one thing that work.

david_horsager: First of all, he said, you’re going to have to tighten up the time frame in

david_horsager: times of turbulence and massive change. You might have to just say this

david_horsager: week. Hey, everybody hears. We’re headed this week because we don’t even

david_horsager: know what next week’s going to look like or whatever. But but he also said,

david_horsager: Basically many that are listening. Remember that he really, um,

david_horsager: Co, took charge of the joint forces in Uh, when Afghanistan took a turn for

david_horsager: the worst, and and basically um, they’re having all this trouble. Can’t find

david_horsager: Osama Bin Laden Canampt, this can’t that. and basically he, he, he said,

david_horsager: Okay, we need to figure this out and he really shortened the time frame.

david_horsager: Any? I, if I’m not mistaken, what he said is instead of having these even

david_horsager: weekly or these meetings with the intelligence officials around the world,

david_horsager: Uh, so every so often he said, For the next Harever many days, twenty two

david_horsager: hundred intelligence officials are going to getting on on the phone with me

david_horsager: at oh six hundred, my time wherever he was, whether he was in Europe or D.

david_horsager: C, that day or wherever, and we’re going to get on the call for thirty

david_horsager: minutes. Anybody with new information? you’ve got to share it. We’re going

david_horsager: to make a plan for the day.

david_horsager: and they found Bin Laden and a host of other things. But he really narrowed

david_horsager: that focus because you know Th this out there a year. I don’t know what

david_horsager: that’s going to be like in a pandemic, Uh, you know, and yet I see, the The

david_horsager: dream of Martin Luther King is even bigger than a year, right, so, um, I

david_horsager: don’t know. Maybe he can give me a little.

meridith_elliott_powell: Ab, absolutely, I think that, Um, I think that absolutely, when we

meridith_elliott_powell: think about goals or accomplishments, they skinny down. they have

meridith_elliott_powell: to be narrow because we don’t know what it’s going to look like. I

meridith_elliott_powell: was just with a Ceo right before this podcast and we were talking

meridith_elliott_powell: about the fact that will the supply chain open up won’ it open up?

meridith_elliott_powell: Those can mean so many different things for his business, but let

meridith_elliott_powell: me give you an example. Just this past Saturday, I was in Anaheim,

meridith_elliott_powell: California, speaking for a fascinating business. It’s called the

meridith_elliott_powell: Oncology Institute and it’s run by this Um, a former A Wall Street

meridith_elliott_powell: banker, their CEO, and when I first talked to him I said, Help

meridith_elliott_powell: me understand what makes you unique, What makes you different, And

meridith_elliott_powell: this was what he said. He said, We’re looking to revolutionize how

meridith_elliott_powell: people get Um cancer treatment. the experience that they have, all

meridith_elliott_powell: while bringing down the cost of cancer’s treatment. Now, imagine

meridith_elliott_powell: you work for the Oncology institute. You have this massive obstacle

meridith_elliott_powell: in front of you. You’ve got to deal with regulation. You’ve got to

meridith_elliott_powell: deal with staffing issues. you’ve got to deal with insurance

meridith_elliott_powell: companies. you’ve got to deal with so much.

meridith_elliott_powell: but every day you’re reminded you are revolutionizing and changing

meridith_elliott_powell: the way that people are treated for one of the most tragic. Um, you

meridith_elliott_powell: know, tragic, you know services in in the world. you’re making a

meridith_elliott_powell: difference And that’s what pushes you through the slog going after

meridith_elliott_powell: and taking down Osama Bin Laden. I don’t know. Maybe it takes a

meridith_elliott_powell: week, Maybe it takes two years, but being reminded every day that

meridith_elliott_powell: that’s what I’m trying to accomplish. That’s what keeps you from

meridith_elliott_powell: getting stuck in the obstacle. Look, I don’t know what they did to

meridith_elliott_powell: try to break down Osama Bin Laden, but I’m going to tell you I feel

meridith_elliott_powell: really safe in saying it didn’t work A couple of times they tried

meridith_elliott_powell: and they had to pick themselves back up. They had to dust

meridith_elliott_powell: themselves back on and you have to try again. Welcome to

meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty. That’s uncertainty. and as the leader, you have to

meridith_elliott_powell: craft that vision and you’ve got to remember and remind people why

meridith_elliott_powell: they have to keep trying.

david_horsager: You’ve got some great stories in the book and maybe this will make it real

david_horsager: for people. but

david_horsager: I think I think I’d like listeners to think of whether you’re a mom or dad,

david_horsager: leading your family

meridith_elliott_powell: Oh, completely

david_horsager: in uncertainty. Because whether you’re an entrepreneur like me, We, we just

david_horsager: had an outbreak again of somebody with with coved. We’ve had people on staff

david_horsager: that will be vaccinated, people that don’t want to be ent. We, we got these

david_horsager: challenges even for me in my small headquarters. You know

david_horsager: there’s challenges of how do you navigate and lead, even still two years

david_horsager: So maybe you know I. I just would have people whether you’re running a big

david_horsager: company like

david_horsager: some of the stories in the business or you’re running a family.

david_horsager: How can we lead in the uncertainty ahead because it’s certainly better to be

david_horsager: leading in it. Uh, so maybe let’s let’s take a little. go deeper. the

david_horsager: framework. but maybe on one of the stories can do is one that’s most

david_horsager: relevant that you could give to kind of make it sticky.

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, absolutely you know. it’s so funny that you would ask this

meridith_elliott_powell: because when I finished writing the book, I was done of sending it

meridith_elliott_powell: off to the publisher. all of a sudden, it hit me that the Great

meridith_elliott_powell: Depression didn’t end at five o’clock, And these people had to take

meridith_elliott_powell: this home to their. Um, you know, to their to their personal lives.

meridith_elliott_powell: And how do you you know how do you get through this? So the last

meridith_elliott_powell: part of the book I wrote for applying this this to your, um, you

meridith_elliott_powell: know to your personal life, and I’ll give you one this in, come out

meridith_elliott_powell: of the book. But I think it’s aropoke, because I’ve been doing it

meridith_elliott_powell: with my with my husband right now. Is my husband just had foot

meridith_elliott_powell: surgery and it’s going to be a nine month process, he said, The

meridith_elliott_powell: first of three surgeries. Now we are superactive people. We are on

meridith_elliott_powell: mountain bikes. we are on tennis courts, where are on golf courses.

meridith_elliott_powell: We are hiking. We rarely sit still and now he’s been put into the

meridith_elliott_powell: bed for nine months. Total recovery is going to have to keep. Um,

meridith_elliott_powell: reusing his foot, so I sat down with him this weekend and I said,

meridith_elliott_powell: Where do you see yourself? A year from now? What are the very first

meridith_elliott_powell: things that you want to do when your foot recovers and he said, I

meridith_elliott_powell: want to hike a trail in the smokeies. I want you and I to go on a

meridith_elliott_powell: mountain biking. Um trip. I want to see myself back walking with

meridith_elliott_powell: the guys on the golf course. I wrote that all out on a No card, and

meridith_elliott_powell: every morning we read that together because I want his eye on where

meridith_elliott_powell: he’s going. So you have little kids in the house and they’re

meridith_elliott_powell: struggling with junior high school. Keep their eye on the little

meridith_elliott_powell: dreams that they have. You know, winning little league or the

meridith_elliott_powell: difference that they want to make when they grow up. Just put a few

meridith_elliott_powell: things on a no card. Thank God, we don’t all have to be as

meridith_elliott_powell: artdiculate as Martin Luther, getting junior right, and just put

meridith_elliott_powell: them out there and you just read them, But it’s um, like I know

meridith_elliott_powell: with my husband He’s this year is going to be difficult. You know,

meridith_elliott_powell: it’s going to be painful. Is going to be difficult. but I one him,

meridith_elliott_powell: focused on what all of that is for, Because that’s going to help

meridith_elliott_powell: him find a way.

david_horsager: Back to the vision. What would you say for year? You know you’re making a

david_horsager: difference in the world. What’s the vision of your company?

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, every day I remind Mym, I just had a meeting with my staff

meridith_elliott_powell: this morning and I saidmind Um, you know, I always start our

meridith_elliott_powell: meeting and a end our meeting with Uh, with our vision and it is

meridith_elliott_powell: simply that people are struggling with change and uncertainty. They

meridith_elliott_powell: need a path forward, and that’s our job to show them how easy

meridith_elliott_powell: effective and how much opportunity there is in the marketplace, And

meridith_elliott_powell: we start every meeting and we end every meeting like that and

meridith_elliott_powell: remind my team you’re making a difference.

david_horsager: We, we’re very similar. You know,

david_horsager: we’re in a trust. We think the world’s in a trust crisis. We, we have the

david_horsager: way forward and and building trust. It’s a little more articulate in our

david_horsager: policy manual, but we build trust leaders and organizations around the

david_horsager: world, and we believe that we make the biggest difference when we do that.

david_horsager: so um, let’s let’s jump into

david_horsager: one more peace. I want to touch on a couple of the other books be cause. I

david_horsager: think you. You’ve got such a breadth of work, but in this whole process is

david_horsager: there one more thing? One more step, and everybody should should get the

david_horsager: book Thrive strategies to turn uncertainty to competitive advantage. But one

david_horsager: more tipper. Take away from this book on how we can thrive today, Especially

david_horsager: in the midst uncertainty.

meridith_elliott_powell: yeah, I think. Um, you know, really. My favorite step is Um, is to

meridith_elliott_powell: help people make money in the middle of Um. uncertainty because

meridith_elliott_powell: it’s a myth that there is an opportunity out there. There’s so much

meridith_elliott_powell: opportunity and its strategy number five. It’s secure your base

meridith_elliott_powell: that in an uncertain marketplace, business grows from the inside

meridith_elliott_powell: out. It’s not about attracting new business because you can’t

meridith_elliott_powell: attract new business until you understand the current problems your

meridith_elliott_powell: existing customers have. It’s really about being relevant in the

meridith_elliott_powell: marketplace, and I’ll just tell you really quick story, but it’s

meridith_elliott_powell: the story of Proctor and Gamble. A lot of people know it as P&G

meridith_elliott_powell: And while it’s a famous company, a lot of uh people don’t know

meridith_elliott_powell: that it was started in the early eighteen hundreds by two men,

meridith_elliott_powell: Proctor and Gamble, who married sisters, and they competed for

meridith_elliott_powell: animal fat. One made soap, and one made candles, and one night at a

meridith_elliott_powell: kitchen table in Cincinnati, Ohio, they were fighting over the

meridith_elliott_powell: price of animal fat and their future father in law heard them and

meridith_elliott_powell: said boys, Why don’t you ▁quit competing and start a company, and

meridith_elliott_powell: Proctor and Gamble was born now, Proctor and Gamble is rooted in

meridith_elliott_powell: this step. They don’t put a product to market that they don’t

meridith_elliott_powell: engage customers first, they ask, and the first product they were

meridith_elliott_powell: going to put on the market was soap. Um, I loved that it was

meridith_elliott_powell: soapcause. I can’t think of a more product. That’s more of a

meridith_elliott_powell: commodity. How do you differentiate yourself? Well, they went out

meridith_elliott_powell: and they talked to people and they said. What do you like about

meridith_elliott_powell: soap? What do you not like about soap? And what they got from their

meridith_elliott_powell: customers was gold. People loved soap. but there was a problem. See

meridith_elliott_powell: when you use soap and you lather it up. It’ll slip out of your

meridith_elliott_powell: hands, Fall to the bottom of the bathtub and you can’t find it.

meridith_elliott_powell: Customers told Proctor and Gamble that they wanted ▁quote onquote a

meridith_elliott_powell: soap. That floats, Proctor and Gamble shot air into a bar of ivory

meridith_elliott_powell: soap, and if anybody remembers the tagline for ivory soap was

meridith_elliott_powell: always a soap that floats, and by the end of the eighteen hundreds,

meridith_elliott_powell: pro Dern Gamble was a million dollar company. Now their competitors

meridith_elliott_powell: were selling soaps that smelled good, that came in different shapes

meridith_elliott_powell: and different colors, but they were, their competitors were selling

meridith_elliott_powell: products that solved the wrong problem. If you want to grow in

meridith_elliott_powell: today’s marketplace, solved the right problem, and the only way to

meridith_elliott_powell: do that is to talk to customers.

david_horsager: It get feedback. Why don’t we do it? Why don do people go? Just ask what do

david_horsager: you want? More of what do you like? What can I keep doing?

david_horsager: Both appreciative inquiry and feedback

david_horsager: Such great advice over and over and over.

david_horsager: Let’s lets. I want to get personal in a moment, but before

david_horsager: we do, I want. I want to talk about a couple more of books because just a

david_horsager: touch on so people know about them and a couple key ideas. Because we talk a

david_horsager: lot as far as trust around responsibility. And you wrote the book Own it,

david_horsager: you know, and redefining responsibility. Tell what’s what’s the key thought

david_horsager: in this book.

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, you know what. I? when I wanted to put responsibility, um, in

meridith_elliott_powell: the title, my publisher said You can’t put responsibility in the

meridith_elliott_powell: title, and I said why they said Nobody will buy a book on

meridith_elliott_powell: responsibility. Nobody wants it here. Here is the main premise of

meridith_elliott_powell: that book and the main premise was, I just really started to

meridith_elliott_powell: interview a lot of successful people, self made people who came

meridith_elliott_powell: from nothing, and Um, and the thing that I found over and over

meridith_elliott_powell: again was they passionately believed they were successful because

meridith_elliott_powell: nobody bailed them out. When they failed, they had to pick

meridith_elliott_powell: themselves up. I mean, I was. I was interviewing people that came

meridith_elliott_powell: of age during before social security, back when you couldn’t move

meridith_elliott_powell: home with your parents back when if you lost a job, there was no

meridith_elliott_powell: unemployment and they were grateful for the fact that they had.

meridith_elliott_powell: They had to figure away, and I just felt like we need to stop

meridith_elliott_powell: seeing responsibility as a negative and see it for the gift that it

meridith_elliott_powell: is because when I stopped blaming others or blaming my environment,

meridith_elliott_powell: I put the blame back on myself and the beautiful thing about

meridith_elliott_powell: understanding I’m responsible is I can control me. I’m the one

meridith_elliott_powell: thing I can change. I can, I can move, and when I do that, I become

meridith_elliott_powell: empowered to become and accomplish anything I want to accomplish

meridith_elliott_powell: personally. I believe we’ve become a culture that is just too quick

meridith_elliott_powell: to blame everybody else for the reasons that we’re not succeeding.

meridith_elliott_powell: and even if it’s valid, even if it’s valid, Sometimes it isn’t

meridith_elliott_powell: fair. your circumstances. We’re still cheating you out of an

meridith_elliott_powell: ability to get out of that by telling you that it’s not your fault

meridith_elliott_powell: and that you don’t have the power within you. So that book I wrote

meridith_elliott_powell: based on finding the power within yourself to become and be

meridith_elliott_powell: anything you want to be, And responsibility is a gift. It’s not a

david_horsager: Hm, I love it. Oh, don’t we wish this for all of

david_horsager: all those we work with our kids, our

david_horsager: family, everybody, uh, responsibility. I, um. You know we think a lot about

david_horsager: this because we kind of differentiate accountability and responsily. Many

david_horsager: people think they know a lot about accountability. We’ll ask in a company.

david_horsager: So how do you hold people accountable here? and oh, you know accountability

david_horsager: stuff they don’t know. Right, and we. I, I agree with you in that

david_horsager: responsibility we define is that I can hold myself responsible. I, as a

david_horsager: leader can hold others accountable.

meridith_elliott_powell: right, right.

david_horsager: Therefore, it’s easier to have a healthy accountable company if I’ve he. If

david_horsager: I’ve hired responsible people, But um, there’s two sides there.

david_horsager: The you wrote Who comes next? You wrote the best sales book. That’s got to

david_horsager: be. I mean, come on now, the best sales book With’s one of the best tips

david_horsager: from the best sales book.

meridith_elliott_powell: Well, you know. with that you know, David. I wrote that with Connie

meridith_elliott_powell: Padesta, Uh, what else?

meridith_elliott_powell: W. what else was she going

david_horsager: right. of course.

meridith_elliott_powell: to title? You know that book. I would say that my favorite tip out

meridith_elliott_powell: of there. I’m not sure that Connie would agree, But my favorite tip

meridith_elliott_powell: out of there. My best tip for sales is build your network. It will

meridith_elliott_powell: change your life. If you build your network, you will never call.

meridith_elliott_powell: call ever again. Build relationships long before you, Um. need

meridith_elliott_powell: them. Don’t treat it like sales, treated like adding value and

meridith_elliott_powell: investing in in other people.

david_horsager: the old phrases of your network is Netw is uh,

david_horsager: equal to your networ or um, so forth, So there’s one more than I know the

david_horsager: publishers interested in again. You wrote it Awh ago and I, I don’t usually

david_horsager: jump. I usually go deeper, but you’ve written so much. I want people get to

david_horsager: know you. I think we’ll come back and go deep on something sometim, but I

david_horsager: want my audience to know you. Uh, this, uh, those list to the Trusted Leader

david_horsager: show and I do want to touch on one more because it’s interesting to me and

david_horsager: that is the book you wrote a while back called the Confidence Plan. It’s

david_horsager: it’s uh, looks like it’ll be coming out again

david_horsager: refreshed Uh in the future, but I think of you know with this one I even

meridith_elliott_powell: Mhm, yeah,

david_horsager: think of you know. certainly people. uh, but I think of my kids right,

david_horsager: I think of my daughters. I’ve got four kids, but my daughters you want for

david_horsager: your daughter’s healthy confidence, right you? y, and and um,

david_horsager: I think my wife would been say here. It’s been a journey and she is an

david_horsager: unbelievable leader today, but you know this, this work toward having

david_horsager: healthy confidence. That isn’t this ego driven. And isn’t you know certain

david_horsager: things that maybe even our culture said, women should be or girls should be

david_horsager: or whatever? And so I, I’d love to talk a little bit about what. How do we?

david_horsager: What’s a confidence planner? How do we build healthy confidence in ourselves

david_horsager: or our kids?

meridith_elliott_powell: yeah, I think it’s you know so great. The reason I wrote that book

meridith_elliott_powell: was Um. I had a group of women leaders approached me and said,

meridith_elliott_powell: Would you come talk to our group about confidence, and my first

meridith_elliott_powell: thought was me, and Um, they said Yes, you, you. you appear so

meridith_elliott_powell: confident and I and I do believe I am, But boy had to start out

meridith_elliott_powell: that way. I mean not at all, I mean. and and and so it really made

meridith_elliott_powell: me think like. what did I do to build confidence? And I love the

meridith_elliott_powell: fact that you drew the difference between co dence and arrogance.

meridith_elliott_powell: because Um, because any time I speak about it, I really make that

meridith_elliott_powell: difference. It’s It’s a humble belief in yourself and Um, belief

meridith_elliott_powell: that you can accomplish and you can do things well. At the same

meridith_elliott_powell: time, having an incredible thirst for knowledge and input from

meridith_elliott_powell: other people. being okay with not

meridith_elliott_powell: always having the answers you know. And one of the most important

meridith_elliott_powell: things that I think to Um. to build confidence is number one is to

meridith_elliott_powell: to to be in an environment that allows you to try and to fail. Is

meridith_elliott_powell: that Um, for other people not coming in and doing things for you? I

meridith_elliott_powell: believe that confidence is built through progress, not through the

meridith_elliott_powell: end result. So uh, so with that whenever I’m helping people and a

meridith_elliott_powell: lot that we talk about in the book, Is you mean you do you have to

meridith_elliott_powell: have a vision for yourself? You have to have goals of things that

meridith_elliott_powell: you want to um, accomplish, But it’s about taking baby steps. I

meridith_elliott_powell: come, um, I come out of a. A definitely a loving home, but

meridith_elliott_powell: unfortunately my home was riddled with um, alcoholism. Six male

meridith_elliott_powell: members of my family, including both my brothers, my father, my

meridith_elliott_powell: first husband all died of alcoholism and I was really ashamed Um of

meridith_elliott_powell: that, so much so that it eroded my confidence. The funny thing

meridith_elliott_powell: about confidence has nothing to do with me, but it still took you

meridith_elliott_powell: know the wings out from under me and I had to start to look at the

meridith_elliott_powell: parts of my life that weren’t where I wanted them to be and take

meridith_elliott_powell: baby steps. I couldn’t go from ▁zero to sixties. I sixty, I didn’t

meridith_elliott_powell: know how to have healthy relationships, so I had to take a step. My

meridith_elliott_powell: health wasn’t quite where I needed to get it. I was always busy

meridith_elliott_powell: taking care of everybody’s else, so the biggest advice I say to

meridith_elliott_powell: people is you need to look and be honest in every area of your

meridith_elliott_powell: life, your health, your finances, your um, relationships, your

meridith_elliott_powell: spirituality, and professionally rate yourself one to five, five

meridith_elliott_powell: being the highest of where you are and be honest. Just doing that

meridith_elliott_powell: is like getting a weight because confidence is eroded because we’re

meridith_elliott_powell: We’re trying to hide or keep something down. We’re unsure of

meridith_elliott_powell: ourselves and so let’s say that you know your health isn’t where it

meridith_elliott_powell: needs to be. Well. you don’t have to be an Olympic athlete this

meridith_elliott_powell: time next year. But if you could just say I’m going to take a walk

meridith_elliott_powell: twice a week, you’ll start to feel better about yourself and the

meridith_elliott_powell: very fact that you may be a one in health and you want to be a

meridith_elliott_powell: five. Just the very fact that you’re making progress. it builds

meridith_elliott_powell: your confidence. The last thing I’m going to say is who you

meridith_elliott_powell: surround yourself with is everything. You need people who support

meridith_elliott_powell: that and Um, you got enough gremblins happening in your own head.

meridith_elliott_powell: You need people around you who um, who support your dreams and um

meridith_elliott_powell: and support that. I’m passionate. The confidence can be learned and

meridith_elliott_powell: um. and it’s important to work on it and to build it

david_horsager: you become like the people you around, right

david_horsager: we the average, almost an attitude, wealth, brain power, and almost

david_horsager: everything else of the of the people we spend the most time with It seems

david_horsager: um, Wow, be carefully. You surround yourself with

david_horsager: humble belief in yourself a whole lot more. I love this. It’s so good as

david_horsager: long as we talk present so much. I, this is. you know. this is my uh, free

meridith_elliott_powell: Yess, right.

david_horsager: thousand dollar consulting session for me and everybody listens to trusted

david_horsager: Leader show, so we’re just going to suck the mi of life on it right out of

david_horsager: it right now. So thank you from everybody listening to get to sit in the

david_horsager: room with married Elviet Powell, Meredith Elliott Powe, I do have. I do have

meridith_elliott_powell: it’s it’s it’s a. it’s a it. that’s you. Can. you can even just

david_horsager: to like that’s you know. I just want to say Meredith.

meridith_elliott_powell: me Mayor. That’s what everybody in the family does.

david_horsager: yeah, me. all right. well, um, it’s it’s been a journey and a fun. Don’t

david_horsager: even get to know you a bit. But I want to uh, ask another question, because

david_horsager: you know we find at least leaders that are seem to be great on stage are

david_horsager: great in their work publicly. and you have a whole lot of public work I see,

david_horsager: and know. your serve on boards. I know, and been on stage together at some

david_horsager: of the biggest stages, at least in the country. and Um, you know, but the

david_horsager: great leaders aren’t just. They seem like they are doing the right things

david_horsager: privately. They’re leading themselves well,

meridith_elliott_powell: Mhm, Mhm,

david_horsager: and I know you do some things you love outside. But what are some other

david_horsager: things you do To lead yourself Well?

meridith_elliott_powell: Oh, I think that some of the things I do to lead myself well is

meridith_elliott_powell: number one. I’m a big believer that you’ve got to practice. Um.

meridith_elliott_powell: you’ve got to practice what you preach. That my actions are so much

meridith_elliott_powell: more important, Um than my words, And that even means like you

meridith_elliott_powell: know, mornings that I’m frustrated and maybe I’m getting on a call

meridith_elliott_powell: with my team to kind of catch myself before I get on there, not to

meridith_elliott_powell: to bring the attitude that’s going to motivate. That’s going to.

meridith_elliott_powell: Um. You know this going to inspire them. I also am very selfish

meridith_elliott_powell: about taking time to invest in myself. I think as a leader we have

meridith_elliott_powell: to realize that a lot of energy is taken out of us and we need that

meridith_elliott_powell: time to. Um. We need that time to replenish, so I’m incredibly, Um.

meridith_elliott_powell: I’m incredibly selfish about that, and then I would say the third

meridith_elliott_powell: is to make sure that I’m spending the time educating myself. I mean

meridith_elliott_powell: as a leader, I need to stay one step ahead and I need to be

meridith_elliott_powell: providing value for my clients for my team for my family, And you

meridith_elliott_powell: know what am I doing? You know in in order to be able to provide

david_horsager: what do you do? What are some of things you consistently read or listen to?

david_horsager: How do you stay fresh and relevant

david_horsager: and capable? What are you looking at learning from

meridith_elliott_powell: so every single morning I spend at least you know, thirty minutes

meridith_elliott_powell: to an hour reading the Um, reading the economist. Um, you know most

meridith_elliott_powell: of my clients are you know in the corporate? Uh, you know in the

meridith_elliott_powell: corporate world, And so Um, that is, that is an everyday, Um

meridith_elliott_powell: indulgence on Sundays, or if I’m going through airports, it’s my

meridith_elliott_powell: guilty pleasure, is I? if I’m in a hotel, I’ll read the Wall Street

meridith_elliott_powell: Journal. I ▁quit, getting it Um at home because I don’t. Uh, I

meridith_elliott_powell: don’t have the time to you know, to read it every day. Um, so many

meridith_elliott_powell: of our colleagues send me books and things, Um, all the time, So I

meridith_elliott_powell: read those books and then I admitted to you right before we got on

meridith_elliott_powell: this show. I’m a major big nerd, so I watch investment. Um, you

meridith_elliott_powell: know I watch investment shows. The counter to that is that at least

meridith_elliott_powell: for ninety minutes every day, no matter where I am in the world,

meridith_elliott_powell: you will catch me outside doing something, whether it’s a hike,

meridith_elliott_powell: whether it’s a mountain bike, and on that, I don’t think about

meridith_elliott_powell: anything. I don’t think about business. That’s just really time to.

meridith_elliott_powell: you know, sometimes I’m with a you know, my husband or another

meridith_elliott_powell: member of the family or a friend. Sometimes I’m just by myself, but

meridith_elliott_powell: that’s you know. that’s my indulgence to be able to do that.

david_horsager: on that exerciser Outside? Is that your exercise and then is that varied all

david_horsager: the time? So golf can be at this day. Mountain biking can be it that day,

david_horsager: but you just make sure there’s always ninety minutes outside.

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, there’s always, and it’s um. So if I play golf, I walk and

meridith_elliott_powell: you know I,

meridith_elliott_powell: I carry my clubs. and so, but it’s always I. It’s varied. I got out

meridith_elliott_powell: of the gym years ago. I mean, if I’m in a hotel, I’ll um. I’ll go,

meridith_elliott_powell: but for me it’s much more important, Um for movement and

meridith_elliott_powell: especially, I mean, I don’t know how you are about this, David. But

meridith_elliott_powell: if I have a client with a really big problem or I’m about to do a

meridith_elliott_powell: big major keynote, I’ll choose my mountain bike or a hiking trail.

meridith_elliott_powell: Because just that distance helps me get some kind of realization

meridith_elliott_powell: into a story I need to hone in or I don’t know. There’s just

meridith_elliott_powell: something about getting out in nature like that that clears my head

meridith_elliott_powell: and allows ideas and solutions to open up. When I was a kid, my

meridith_elliott_powell: mother used to always say there’s nothing that a good hike in the

meridith_elliott_powell: woods won’t solve, and as a kid as a kid, I never thought she was

meridith_elliott_powell: right, but she’s a hu hundred and fifty percent right.

david_horsager: my wife would put a triple stamp of approval on this

david_horsager: outside outside outside, so

david_horsager: sometimes I’ll I’ll get on a an elliptical in our home and I’ll put mybs

david_horsager: out. Listen to podcast. I like to do that.

david_horsager: She’s like, Why don’t you get outside? I mean, and in Minnesota, we say

david_horsager: there’s no bad weather, Just the wrong clothes right, so you can handle

david_horsager: anything forty below, ▁zero, But um, but you just got to wear the right

meridith_elliott_powell: that’s right. that’s right. I agree.

david_horsager: meredeth, this has been such a joy. Tons of tips and takeaways here. but um,

david_horsager: where can we find out more? Where’s the best place to find more out More

david_horsager: about you? I know you’ve got courses. You’ve got a whole lot of you know.

david_horsager: you got the books and a whole lot of other things to share. Where can we

david_horsager: find out about you?

meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah. yeah, so you can find me at my website, which is just value a

meridith_elliott_powell: speaker, dot com, just towards value speaker dot com. I’m also uh,

meridith_elliott_powell: I tend to be on link in almost every day. It’s my preferred social

meridith_elliott_powell: media and I’m a big believer in Bulld your network. Change your

meridith_elliott_powell: life. So if you reach out and connect with me, I will definitely

meridith_elliott_powell: connect with you.

david_horsager: Thank you, Meith. You know what? It’s the trust leader. Show who is the

david_horsager: leader you trust and why?

meridith_elliott_powell: Um. Ken Lang, gone, one of the founders of Um. Home Depot. I just

meridith_elliott_powell: finished Um, reading his book. Uh, I love capitalism, but I, you

meridith_elliott_powell: know, the more that I have studied Ken Langone over the years, and I’ve

meridith_elliott_powell: gotten a chance to have dinner with him. Uh, more than a few times,

meridith_elliott_powell: But he is truly a man. I love self made people, people who came

meridith_elliott_powell: from nothing and his parents were immigrants. Um came to Brooklyn,

meridith_elliott_powell: believed in education and he built himself up from there. but just

meridith_elliott_powell: the story of his life time and time again, He always took the right

meridith_elliott_powell: road and has always been about the right things. and now that he’s

meridith_elliott_powell: become a billionaire, he’s invested in, you know, building the

meridith_elliott_powell: Langonn, um, uh, Medical center in New York City, and just really

meridith_elliott_powell: giving back and making a difference. His, his core, um, uh, area of

meridith_elliott_powell: focus is education and I believe in you. give people

meridith_elliott_powell: education You can change their lives.

david_horsager: that’s so true and education motivates

david_horsager: education. Uh, when I learned exactly what was inside of a hot dog, I

david_horsager: stopped eating so many. so

meridith_elliott_powell: that’s right. that’s all right,

david_horsager: Oh, my, everybody. listing what a treat to be with Meredith. We, you know,

david_horsager: this has been the trusted leader show. If you want any of the show notes,

david_horsager: you know they’ll all be there. Trusted leaders show dot com

david_horsager: for everybody listening,

david_horsager: Remember the Trusted Leaders summit is coming up. The best deal is right now

david_horsager: only a little bit longer. Trust the leaders summit Dot com, Meredith Elliott

david_horsager: Powell, It has been a treat to be with you today. Thank you so much for

david_horsager: sharing your wisdom. Thanks for the friendship and that has been the trusted

david_horsager: leader show until next time, stay trusted.

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