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[david_horsager]: Welcome to the trusted Leader show. it’s David Horsager, I have a very

[david_horsager]: special guest. He’s a dear friend. I’m goingnna see a New York City coming

[david_horsager]: up. Thank you and welcome to the show, Phil M. Jones.

[phil_m_jjones]: David is the joy to be here. Thanks for inviting me to be part of this.

[david_horsager]: Oh, thank you, well, Phil. I mean, you know

[david_horsager]: so many people I talk to If they’re going to describe you with one word or

[david_horsager]: two, it is brilliant,

[david_horsager]: humble and kind, and it’s it’s true. You got this Th, this just brilliant

[david_horsager]: guy who you split your time. You’re a Brit, but you’re U, K, and U. S.

[david_horsager]: You’ve got four kids like I do? you know how to raise daughters? You get two

[david_horsager]: a little bit older to quite young, and the tw. the the twins, your uh

[david_horsager]: amazing wife, Charlotte, and just on the business front, I’ll give a quick

[david_horsager]: update. I want to have you jump in, but you know some of your clients are

[david_horsager]: some of the biggest in the world, everything from Keller Williams to G, M to

[david_horsager]: Fidelity, and a whole lot of eight hundred more. But um, you know you are an

[david_horsager]: entrepreneur to young age. We’re going to come back to that, but you, you

[david_horsager]: know you speak, you train you consult, you run a company or two. I think, Um

[david_horsager]: that, I want to talk a little bit about your newest book today, too, because

[david_horsager]: exactly what to say has sold over a million companies, this runaway

[david_horsager]: Besteller, and just so everybody knows Phil is going to be our closing

[david_horsager]: keynote speaker at the Trusted Leader’s Summit in April at the ▁j W.

[david_horsager]: Marriott at the Mall of America, so I wanted people to get to know you a

[david_horsager]: little bit more. We have an amazing line up at the summit and you’re closing

[david_horsager]: us. and uh I, I’m excited about that. so hey, give us a. Give us another one

[david_horsager]: or two. Th. three things about Phil Jones that we should know.

[phil_m_jjones]: Wow. I mean, you touched on somebody of the day, David. And and yes, I

[phil_m_jjones]: started in business as a kid. I started knocking on the doors of my

[phil_m_jjones]: neighbors, asking them politely whether they wanted to have their car washed,

[phil_m_jjones]: and I build a fairly lucrative little car cleaning business in my teens,

[phil_m_jjones]: so that I am, I didn’t go to school as often as I should by the age of

[phil_m_jjones]: fifteen because I was making more money than the vulc of my school

[phil_m_jjones]: teachachers, which was a a really fun position to be in, And I’ve always been

[phil_m_jjones]: building businesses. I always been leading others and I, I never even knew

[phil_m_jjones]: that this was a real thing. It was just a natural thing that that I wanted to

[phil_m_jjones]: go out to be out to do. and I have this innate belief system that if somebody

[phil_m_jjones]: else can do it, can somebody else be me? So I’ve lived in environments where

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ve been in awe of so many brilliant people and learned that success leads

[phil_m_jjones]: clues. And any time I’ve ever met anybody who was better at anything than I

[phil_m_jjones]: am, I’ve never gone like Wow. I’ve always asked a question how and what

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s allowed me to be at to do is is to fast track intelligence, Fas Strick

[phil_m_jjones]: into the experience, borrow the experience of others. So my career is Is is

[phil_m_jjones]: allowed me to have this both breadth and depth of working with over eight

[phil_m_jjones]: hundred different industries, training over two million sales professionals

[phil_m_jjones]: around the world, working in five different continents. Now written what?

[phil_m_jjones]: eleven books David, I was working at the other day. Eleven books I’ve either

[phil_m_jjones]: written or co authored in its entirety And it’s been a ride. because I never

[phil_m_jjones]: planned to do any this stuff. It’s always been organic from one opportunity

[phil_m_jjones]: to the next to the next to the next, and it is a joy to have come from such

[phil_m_jjones]: such earnest hard working background To now get the privileged position. I

[phil_m_jjones]: have to help. No lead some really big initiatives or influenced the leaders

[phil_m_jjones]: in big initiatives to make lasting change. So that’s kind of a a little

[phil_m_jjones]: potted history on me, and in not just what I’ve done by how I think, which I,

[phil_m_jjones]: i think is a fun place to start.

[david_horsager]: it’s a fun place to start and I think we, we could go one to two ways,

[david_horsager]: personal or business first. I, I can’t wait to get back to some personal

[david_horsager]: things be cause. I think you arere doing some great things to lead your

[david_horsager]: family in life, and I think great leaders tend to do that, at least seek to

[david_horsager]: do that well, even though none of us perectly. but let’s jump into a couple

[david_horsager]: of business things. I know you know. there’s a lot that people haven’t

[david_horsager]: heard. You help guiding Premier League football clubs. You help grow an

[david_horsager]: independent real estate business to knew over two and forty million a

[david_horsager]: quarter billion dollars. with just five people there, some great takeaways’

[david_horsager]: going to get here. Let’s jump into what you wrote in your last uh, runaway

[david_horsager]: Besteller, Exactly what to say at the you’. Going to talk about exactly what

[david_horsager]: to say To be trusted. but you know first of all, just give us a quick

[david_horsager]: background of the book. I love the content. I’ve got a few specific

[david_horsager]: questions here, but give us little background of the book.

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, there’s a few things that to where the book came from, and one of the

[phil_m_jjones]: most interesting things to me as a young leader was that I was in the unique

[phil_m_jjones]: position of leading significant experience teams in my early twenties,

[phil_m_jjones]: working with some of the biggest retailers in the U. K. And there’s a

[phil_m_jjones]: difficult position to be in when you’re leading from a position of being

[phil_m_jjones]: really youthful. And I was. I was like in my early twenties at the time, and

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s hard to be able to gain the respect of others and I learnt real quickly

[phil_m_jjones]: after to earn the respect of others. so for me to be at a lead change, What I

[phil_m_jjones]: was often doing was looking for the examples of people who were doing things

[phil_m_jjones]: brilliantly, capitalizing upon their brilliant example and sharing their

[phil_m_jjones]: brilliant example with somebody else to help them raise their game. and I’d

[phil_m_jjones]: do this on repeat, on repeat and repeat. So I of studying peak performance by

[phil_m_jjones]: accident,

[david_horsager]: How did you study them? By the Waycause, Not everybody around as a young

[david_horsager]: leader Where leaders did you read about them? Watch him listen to them. How

[david_horsager]: did you? How did you get around them?

[phil_m_jjones]: all of it anything, all of it is in in my direct workplace. I was. I was that

[phil_m_jjones]: sneaky manager. By walking about, You know, I was looking to better to catch

[phil_m_jjones]: examples of brilliance. I was staying just far enough back to be out to hear

[phil_m_jjones]: things articully, but not close enough to distract, and I would do a huge

[phil_m_jjones]: amount of debef. And what happens when you sit down with a smart person at

[phil_m_jjones]: the end of them just achieving something impressive and you ask them how and

[phil_m_jjones]: what happened here? Exceptra Quite often they don’t know until they’re asked

[phil_m_jjones]: And when Naras, they started me on pack in, you learn to be a reverse

[phil_m_jjones]: engineer Things. Now I did that for a lot of times, and then created training

[phil_m_jjones]: materials in all of my employed positions that would help those organizations

[phil_m_jjones]: much of that train material that’s still existing to day. Then when I started

[phil_m_jjones]: my consulting practice back in two thousand and nine, two thousand and ten, I

[phil_m_jjones]: started to get this transparency of more and more different industries and

[phil_m_jjones]: you’d teach them principles, you teach them strategies, you teach some

[phil_m_jjones]: skills, and quite often what they’d come back with us. I say yeah, but for

[phil_m_jjones]: what what exactly should I say or they? they feel like like this all sounds

[phil_m_jjones]: great. but I wish I had you like on my shoulder or in my pocket or somewhere

[phil_m_jjones]: I could draw from in all of those critical conversations where it mattered

[phil_m_jjones]: and at the time I enjoyed that right ego players. Like that’s cool. They

[phil_m_jjones]: think I’m more so my God skills they haven’t got, but over time it became

[phil_m_jjones]: like

[phil_m_jjones]: Ha, we’ going to do something for this, and when I realized from training

[phil_m_jjones]: more than two million sales professionals around the world is the difference

[phil_m_jjones]: between those that do good and those that do great is the ones that really

[phil_m_jjones]: crushy of, put the time into knowing exactly what to say when to say and how

[phil_m_jjones]: to make it count. They know the worst time to think about the thing they’re

[phil_m_jjones]: goingnna say is in the moment when they say it, and they put time effort and

[phil_m_jjones]: energy into being out of prepare for life’s critical conversations ahead of

[phil_m_jjones]: time. That’s what they’ve done and they doney on repeat what it does is. It

[phil_m_jjones]: doesn’t make them feeling like they’re coming from a position of a script. It

[phil_m_jjones]: actually allows them to show up for the moment and be in the moment with more

[phil_m_jjones]: presentsence ’cause they’re not worried about what’s next. They’re not all up

[phil_m_jjones]: in their head. They understand that, regardless of what somebody throws at

[phil_m_jjones]: them, they’ve already thought about this scene that imagined it ahead of time

[phil_m_jjones]: so they can steer there, un, choose their own adventures. So this fascinated

[phil_m_jjones]: me, and when I started delivering to my Keynos, two thousand and twelve, two

[phil_m_jjones]: thousand and thirteen is, I used to deliver like sprinklings of what I would

[phil_m_jjones]: call magic words.

[phil_m_jjones]: They were handfuls of examples of words, but they were always a takeaways.

[phil_m_jjones]: People loved the speech, but they laughd like the magic words. right. They

[phil_m_jjones]: loved that piece and all this was fun. Then what happened was? I went to a a

[phil_m_jjones]: mastermind group, Um, where the group of other speakers of mine may be, you

[phil_m_jjones]: know. Just not long after delivering one of these speeches and we were

[phil_m_jjones]: talking about writing books

[phil_m_jjones]: and they said, Um, it’s so hard to publish a book nowadays, and me and my big

[phil_m_jjones]: mouth got me into trouble. Said you could publish a book like real quick like

[phil_m_jjones]: three weeks. I could turn something around into day’s age with what exists

[phil_m_jjones]: and I took it a great book. I’m took in, but like self published, turn around

[phil_m_jjones]: quickly and this is two thousand eleven.

[phil_m_jjones]: Um,

[phil_m_jjones]: So what I did as I got myself into trouble by saying that I should put my

[phil_m_jjones]: money where my mouth is, And what I did is, I took a two day pi, a two page p

[phil_m_jjones]: d F. that had delivered to a telecom’s company the week prior. There was

[phil_m_jjones]: seventeen sequences of magic words to help you influence an impact, and I

[phil_m_jjones]: blew that p. d f up into a short book and published it within two and a half

[phil_m_jjones]: weeks to prove my friends wrong.

[phil_m_jjones]: Here we are. Then eight weeks after me sending it Go alive. We got a hundred

[phil_m_jjones]: and twenty thousand downloads from a free Kindle promotion. I’ve got people

[phil_m_jjones]: like like reaching out to me from all corners of the earth saying this is

[phil_m_jjones]: amazing. This is really helpful and I like tripped over this thing.

[phil_m_jjones]: That little book went on to be a giveway for lead capture on my website was

[phil_m_jjones]: give away on the back of events and promotions, small little upsell when it

[phil_m_jjones]: was occasional. But then when I moved to the U. S, geographically in Um, two

[phil_m_jjones]: thousand seventeen inch, Um, my wife and I were deciding that we were going

[phil_m_jjones]: to make the U S. our primary home base, opposed to the U. K, and I thought I

[phil_m_jjones]: gotta do something big here so that I can move from having a global

[phil_m_jjones]: enterprise to having more of a North American based enterprise, So I decided

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m going to write a brand new book, and then in a moment of inspiration I

[phil_m_jjones]: went, Don’t be an idiot, Phll, Why are you trying to write a brand new book

[phil_m_jjones]: when you’ve got a great book that wasnt written properly in the first place,

[phil_m_jjones]: So I went back and I recreated one of my greatest hits and then we called

[phil_m_jjones]: that exactly what to say so. Exactly what to say is magic words To point out,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[phil_m_jjones]: it wasn’t me launching a new idea. It was me refining an old idea. it was me

[phil_m_jjones]: adding substance. an old idea. Not only that it. Since me first releasing it,

[phil_m_jjones]: now I had workshop this material. I’d work with organizations from all from

[phil_m_jjones]: so many different ways, Like it was so tight. it was so distilled and so

[phil_m_jjones]: compact. And what really was the magic in it? David is is,

[phil_m_jjones]: and I only know this from reverse engineering. Don’t think I was smart enough

[phil_m_jjones]: to know at the time

[phil_m_jjones]: is I wrote the biggest little book possible. How can I cram all these deep

[phil_m_jjones]: rooted psychological principles This decades of experience, thousands of

[phil_m_jjones]: different industries, and put into a book you can read in seventy five

[phil_m_jjones]: minutes? What I learnt was If I teach people the example, they’ll learn the

[phil_m_jjones]: principle. If I teach people the principle, they’ll struggle to find examples

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: that relate to their own world. So that’s what we got with the book. Exactly

[phil_m_jjones]: what to say is twenty three precise sequences of words that allow you to show

[phil_m_jjones]: up to life’s critical conversations with more confidence and competence. But

[phil_m_jjones]: what you learn from the book is principles. What you learn is principles of

[phil_m_jjones]: influence of persuasion. Without realizing that’s what you learn. and when

[phil_m_jjones]: you get the confidence to bring these into your daily life, you understand

[phil_m_jjones]: the power reciprocity, you understand the power of labeeling. You understand

[phil_m_jjones]: that it’s pull and not push right, You learn all these things by accident, So

[david_horsager]: so let’s jump in. We got a lot there’. A this is, you know, and it took off

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s really the

[david_horsager]: and it, and um it’s It’s been an amazing, genuine, uh, global and North

[david_horsager]: American besteller And you know I love it because it is quick easy to read.

[david_horsager]: It’s got tips I can think differently about tomorrow and so let’s just jump

[david_horsager]: into a few. Everybody. The book is exactly what to say. He’s got. Uh. you’ve

[david_horsager]: got some other uh work coming out exactly how to sell in some future work.

[david_horsager]: but this, this is for everybody. They they should start. I think start with

[david_horsager]: this exactly what to say, And you’re telling you’re teaching people exactly

[david_horsager]: what to say in sales or leadership or real estate or whatever, But let’s be

[david_horsager]: for leaders today. Let’s jump in here and let’s let’s think about or let me

[david_horsager]: let you start where you? What what would be? Uh first, I, I’m looking at

[david_horsager]: your list. I want simple swaps and two types of people and a favor just out

[david_horsager]: of curiosity. Even some the things you talk about. But where would you start

[david_horsager]: if you said, let me let me give a couple of tips and takeways that would wet

[david_horsager]: people’s appetite and have them you know. Give them something like could use

[david_horsager]: tomorrow morningt.

[phil_m_jjones]: well. If we’re going to go straight in for something that people can use to

[phil_m_jjones]: Morrow morning Is it is quite often you want to um, ask somebody to take a

[phil_m_jjones]: look of something, but you’re fearful of rejection, so we all know that If

[phil_m_jjones]: you do not ask, you do not get. We also know that our success is in direct

[phil_m_jjones]: correlation to the quantity of quality asks that we make in our life. we know

[phil_m_jjones]: those things to be true. Yet still the biggest reason that most people don’t

[phil_m_jjones]: get whether’d like to go in life is because they’re afraid to ask for it. Why

[phil_m_jjones]: because they’re fearful of rejection. So fun place to start might be just to

[phil_m_jjones]: share some examples of a rejection, free, opening formula, Sects of words you

[phil_m_jjones]: can use to ask just about anybody just about anything, and it be completely

[phil_m_jjones]: your rejection free. See if I wanted somebody to consider my idea. I wouldn’t

[phil_m_jjones]: ask them directly to consider my idea. I’d preface the ask with the words,

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m not sure if it’s for you.

[phil_m_jjones]: But

[phil_m_jjones]: so why would I do that specifically if we go slow if somebody presented an

[phil_m_jjones]: idea to you and said, I’m not sure if it’s for you. What with the little

[phil_m_jjones]: voice in subconscious, Say,

[david_horsager]: I want to know

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, it would actually do two things. Is what it would do David to do two

[phil_m_jjones]: things. First thing it would do is it will say. Well, well, I’ll be the judge

[phil_m_jjones]: of that,

[phil_m_jjones]: takes full personal responsibility for the factor decision needs to be made,

[phil_m_jjones]: and that decision as mine to make.

[phil_m_jjones]: Second thing it does is curiosity is Pete. What is it like? You naturally

[phil_m_jjones]: want to lean in to find out more about it. Now there’s a three letter word on

[phil_m_jjones]: the end of this example that carries huge power, and I’m not sure whether it

[phil_m_jjones]: was Peter Parker or Uncle Ben that once said it, but they said with great

[phil_m_jjones]: power comes great responsibility. Same is true as leaders how we use the

[phil_m_jjones]: word, but

[phil_m_jjones]: see people often think the word Barany gates what was said prior to it.

[phil_m_jjones]: That’s what we talk. It’s not actually true what the word, but actually does

[phil_m_jjones]: As it shifts the focus to next. You cannot help but look at what’s next When

[phil_m_jjones]: the word buddies used doesn’t negate what was said Prior shifts the focus to

[phil_m_jjones]: next. So if I wanted somebody to consider my idea and I said, Hey, I’m not

[phil_m_jjones]: sure if it’s for you, but little voice says well, I’ll be the judge of that.

[phil_m_jjones]: What is it full? We’re looking at it. How

[david_horsager]: M

[phil_m_jjones]: do you use that as a leader? Say, for example that you’ve got. Um. The need

[phil_m_jjones]: to meet are to get some of your teens to provide some extra commitment in

[phil_m_jjones]: time, effort for energy hours towards a project. Hey, I’m not sure if it’s

[phil_m_jjones]: for you, but we have a dead line of hitt this on Friday and I could really do

[phil_m_jjones]: with some extra attention.

[phil_m_jjones]: Say, for example, you’re looking for somebody to be able to commit to a new

[phil_m_jjones]: opportunity is. Hey, I’m not sure if it’s for you, but there could be an

[phil_m_jjones]: opening for a promotion for you in another division of the business.

[phil_m_jjones]: What if this is you looking to be at a leader Cha, through your suppliers is

[phil_m_jjones]: hey, I’m not sure if it’s for you, but I would love to explore the

[phil_m_jjones]: possibility of us doing more business at a lower rate.

[phil_m_jjones]: See what it allows us to do. It allows us to table a conversation

[phil_m_jjones]: and by tableling a conversation charts Are, we can have that next

[phil_m_jjones]: conversation easily and people think the conversations are difficult. My

[phil_m_jjones]: experience is often getting to the conversation that’s difficult, not the

[phil_m_jjones]: conversation itself and while we’re running it this quickly, let me give you

[phil_m_jjones]: one more rejection free opening formula. That’s super useful, David. You can

[phil_m_jjones]: play along with this because you know the speaking world better than I do is

[phil_m_jjones]: if there were a thousand people in an audience and I asked the question

[phil_m_jjones]: whilst raising my hand. who in this room would see themselves as open minded.

[phil_m_jjones]: How many hands do you think we will shoot the sky?

[david_horsager]: eighty to ninety percent

[phil_m_jjones]: Yeah, eighty ninety percent right, Some li. most of them with with the

[phil_m_jjones]: remainder probably not raising the hand regardless of what was offered

[david_horsager]: right. A

[phil_m_jjones]: like cash, cookies’s cake. They’re not going up regardless. So what we’ve got

[phil_m_jjones]: here is a fact. The fact is the whole world like to see themselves as open

[phil_m_jjones]: minded. That’s the fact that fact is useful when applied to another

[phil_m_jjones]: principle. And the principle is this. All leaders should know. This is that

[phil_m_jjones]: the person who is in control of the conversation is the one who is asking the

[phil_m_jjones]: questions.

[phil_m_jjones]: So if you know that principle, apply it to the fact that the whole world

[phil_m_jjones]: likes to see themselves as open minded. You’ve just stumbled across a

[phil_m_jjones]: rejection free opening formula, which would be the question. How open minded

[phil_m_jjones]: would you be to

[phil_m_jjones]: how

[david_horsager]: M.

[phil_m_jjones]: open minded would you be to revising your pricing? How open minded would you

[phil_m_jjones]: be to take on some more responsibility? How open minded would you be to

[phil_m_jjones]: finding some time for us to talk about how you could raise your performance?

[phil_m_jjones]: How open minded would you be to understand what our competition are up to

[phil_m_jjones]: right now so we could raise our game? I mean, how hardper minded would you be

[phil_m_jjones]: to using the words How open minded are you more often?

[david_horsager]: great, A great couple tips, open minded. I think that there’s a ton of truth

[david_horsager]: in here. Let’s get down to you know, number five. By the way, my, my, Uh,

[david_horsager]: one of my top speech coaches, Um, in the history of I been coached all the

[david_horsager]: way through you and I just jumped into a hall of fame not too long ago. but

[david_horsager]: she said her favorite opening. The Patricia She’

[phil_m_jjones]: y?

[david_horsager]: on the show is

[david_horsager]: just iagine, just

[phil_m_jjones]: Yep,

[david_horsager]: imine, because it brings people into an experience. So

[phil_m_jjones]: correct.

[david_horsager]: how do you use that phrase? Just imagine.

[phil_m_jjones]: Well, it can be used in a variety of different ways. What we firstly have to

[phil_m_jjones]: understand is that to make decisions

[phil_m_jjones]: that every decision that every human being is ever made has been made at

[phil_m_jjones]: least twice.

[phil_m_jjones]: Note that what I’m really saying is we first make decisions in our mind’s

[phil_m_jjones]: eye. Hypothetically, speaking, we choose it up here before we choose it in

[phil_m_jjones]: reality. So if you can get yourself to get other people to see themselves in

[phil_m_jjones]: a situation before you invite them to choose to be in that situation, the

[phil_m_jjones]: chances of them choosing to be in that situation is significantly higher.

[phil_m_jjones]: Apply that to the fact that what we know as leaders about motivation is

[phil_m_jjones]: people would do things for one or three reasons. Reason why is sun to run

[phil_m_jjones]: towards are y, and incentsive reason too, is something to run away from

[phil_m_jjones]: something they’re scared of. Reason three is something that makes our own

[phil_m_jjones]: heart seening, because largely we were all selfish creatures, Right like

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s the three things that we will do things for towards away yourself and

[phil_m_jjones]: knowing that, Or what can I use the words? Just imagine to do well, I can use

[phil_m_jjones]: them to paint pictures in other people’s minds of alternate future realities.

[phil_m_jjones]: Hey, just imagine we don’t make this move right now and our competition make

[phil_m_jjones]: the move before us. Where does that leave us?

[phil_m_jjones]: Hey, just imagine we do put this extra time energy and effort into this

[phil_m_jjones]: initiative, allowing us to take a step out in front. Finally take that market

[phil_m_jjones]: leading position that we’ve been looking to take for such a period of time.

[phil_m_jjones]: Just imagine that was true. I just imagine by making this changes, it buys

[phil_m_jjones]: you back time. Put in a position where you could not only be the business

[phil_m_jjones]: leader that you’ve been hop to be beli, to be the father,

[phil_m_jjones]: the husband, the spouse, the community member that you’ve been looking to be

[phil_m_jjones]: too, Because of the fact that what you’ve done is that you’ve systemiz.

[phil_m_jjones]: you’ve automated and you’ve taken control. Just imagine that was true.

[david_horsager]: Just imagine what. Which one of these to use the most? And there’s a host of

[david_horsager]: everybody in the book. There is at least twenty three and there’s just

[david_horsager]: amazing examples and principles. But what do you use most in Uh parenting?

[phil_m_jjones]: Um, well, I, I’ll answer that a couple of ways is yes, These tips do relate

[phil_m_jjones]: to all areas of life. The hardest thing I find is I’m the guy that wrote the

[phil_m_jjones]: book. Exactly what to say?

[david_horsager]: Mhm?

[phil_m_jjones]: You can’t bring that person home every day and expect it to be the same way.

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ve got reps in this space that are beyond anybody else’s compare. And what

[phil_m_jjones]: I have to manage and tether myself on is is sometimes one of the best ways to

[phil_m_jjones]: learn is through tripping up, falling over and then coming for consultation

[phil_m_jjones]: or counsel after the fact, and learning from others. So what I try and

[phil_m_jjones]: encourage people to do is is to make mistakes,

[phil_m_jjones]: and and allow those lessons to then be unpacked. There is no greater teacher

[phil_m_jjones]: than experience and

[phil_m_jjones]: is what I’ve learned from from the number of times people have asked me a

[phil_m_jjones]: bow. You know, how do I learn these words? How do I you know? Embrace these

[phil_m_jjones]: into my everyday life is when they become yours are not mine. The become out

[phil_m_jjones]: of your head than just become part of your day to day and people seem like

[phil_m_jjones]: use some of these things, or the Thomas A Green, like. I’m not trying to win

[phil_m_jjones]: the hero award for the fact that you’re using Phil’s words. I’m looking to be

[phil_m_jjones]: able to give people the power to understand that words can have influence.

[phil_m_jjones]: words can have meaning. words can make a change. So what I use the most? I

[phil_m_jjones]: have no idea.

[phil_m_jjones]: I really have no idea. and inevitably I’ll use lots of these all the time.

[phil_m_jjones]: Where do they show up? I think they show up everywhere, David. You know me

[phil_m_jjones]: well enough that I’m a product of my product. This isn’t an act. Um, this is

[phil_m_jjones]: what we do and knowing that this is what we do, this is the only way we can

[phil_m_jjones]: do it.

[david_horsager]: Let’s let’s touch on a couple more before we get to some other leadership

[david_horsager]: things. but I’m I think intrigued by simple swaps.

[phil_m_jjones]: Ah, I got to play with that for fun. Um, and I think you know there’s a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of truth in In In just the principle around. simple swaps how a subtle change

[phil_m_jjones]: can make such a profound difference. A quick one I’ll give. just for

[phil_m_jjones]: everybody. from a leader’s point of view, Is’s some words you should stop

[phil_m_jjones]: using one is pleased. Do not label things as a problem. You cause something a

[phil_m_jjones]: problem. You’re go to win as many friends as saying that somebody has an ugly

[phil_m_jjones]: baby. Right. That’s what’s going to happen. A problem is head to head, which

[phil_m_jjones]: means’s an argument, which means as a winner and a loser, which means if

[phil_m_jjones]: you’re the winner there, the lose and nobody wins. When the other person

[phil_m_jjones]: feels like a loser. Swap the word problem for the word challenge, and now all

[phil_m_jjones]: of a sudden we side by side. This is as versus it versus me versus you. So

[phil_m_jjones]: there’s a simple, simple swap. Let me give another one for. Let us see word

[phil_m_jjones]: that you should ban when speaking to anybody in your organization,

[phil_m_jjones]: particularly when speaking to consumers, and the four letter C word is. Of

[phil_m_jjones]: course, the word cost when you say it costs to me what you’re saying as it

[phil_m_jjones]: hurt me

[phil_m_jjones]: when somebody says how much does it cost. You’re accepting that this is

[phil_m_jjones]: something that’s going to inflict pain on somebody else

[phil_m_jjones]: if somebody is going to give you money for your product service ad Vice

[phil_m_jjones]: experience. I’d like to think you bring returns on that

[phil_m_jjones]: if you deliver returns on that money they spend in my world. that’s called an

[phil_m_jjones]: investment.

[phil_m_jjones]: So I know some of the great work that you do, David. Through your programmes

[phil_m_jjones]: with Um, the institution, and through trust Edge, and through all of the

[phil_m_jjones]: great work you do is people invest in creating more trusted leaders. It’s not

[phil_m_jjones]: the cost of your programe, While the cost of your software or the cost of

[phil_m_jjones]: your solution is a completely different thing, tiny, tiny, tiny, other, big

[phil_m_jjones]: fun, simple swap, Because this one’s hilarious one people see unpacked. I’m

[phil_m_jjones]: guessing at some states in your life, David. I’d like you to own up for this

[phil_m_jjones]: for the benefit of your listeners. At some point in your life, maybe even

[phil_m_jjones]: twice

[phil_m_jjones]: you’ve finished a presentation with the question. Do you have any questions?

[david_horsager]: Thankfully, I learned a long time ago not to do that.

[phil_m_jjones]: But you have done it at least twice in your life,

[david_horsager]: Yes

[phil_m_jjones]: right. There’s also a possibility that at some point in your professional

[phil_m_jjones]: career, to day you’ve delivered a presentation finish with that question, And

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s then resulted in somebody giving you the objection. I just need some

[phil_m_jjones]: time to think about it.

[phil_m_jjones]: We’ve heard that at least twice, too, and there’s a strong possibility that

[phil_m_jjones]: knowing many of us have heard that at least twice that you might well have

[phil_m_jjones]: been the root cause of the creation of that outcome. And the reason that you

[phil_m_jjones]: might have been the Rue Calls is because of the fact you ask a question. Do

[phil_m_jjones]: you have any questions? If you ask a question? Do you have any questions?

[phil_m_jjones]: What are you suggesting the other person should have

[phil_m_jjones]: Now if you’ve done your job right delivered. the more the information they

[phil_m_jjones]: need to make a decision. Delivered a great presentation. What should they not

[phil_m_jjones]: have?

[david_horsager]: questions questions

[phil_m_jjones]: But you’ve suggested Tom. They should have yet the feeling that they don’t

[phil_m_jjones]: have because you did such an awesome job. And now the challenge that we’re

[phil_m_jjones]: faced with is really quite like profound, because they’re confused and

[phil_m_jjones]: they’re wondering whater I miss whater I miss. What did I miss? Whether they

[phil_m_jjones]: miss? I should be out to, as on the intelligence. Here, I got nothing. I got

[phil_m_jjones]: nothing. I got nothing. I must be missing information. Therefore, because

[phil_m_jjones]: they feel that they have insufficient data Because you inserted the

[phil_m_jjones]: confusion. They say, I need some time to think about it and go away for

[phil_m_jjones]: another day. What if we make a tiny little simple swap, the tinest, the

[phil_m_jjones]: little simple swap, and let’s see how obvious this plays are instead of

[phil_m_jjones]: finishing a presentation saying, do you have any questions?

[phil_m_jjones]: Reframe the question to what questions do you have for me

[phil_m_jjones]: Now? What’s the typical answer?

[david_horsager]: something they want to as specifly that person.

[phil_m_jjones]: Yes, See the so that iss very much front of mind. And if it’s not that it saw

[phil_m_jjones]: no questions,

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[phil_m_jjones]: Which is good news

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: Now If they say no questions and have been in power to say they good, No

[phil_m_jjones]: questions. What if they realized they’ve realized they got all the

[phil_m_jjones]: information to make a decision? Which means they’ve already made a decision.

[phil_m_jjones]: Which means you don’t have to ask for a decision because you both know you’ve

[phil_m_jjones]: just made it, so all you now do is take your responsibility as the leader in

[phil_m_jjones]: this situation and know that people are looking for leadership when they

[phil_m_jjones]: consult with you when they invite you to be out of, Engage in a discussion.

[phil_m_jjones]: Then looking for leadership, so lead the dance, and all you have to do is to

[phil_m_jjones]: tell them what happens next, and if you’re looking for the words to help them

[phil_m_jjones]: understand what happens next, I just gave them to you twice. Is’s the words.

[phil_m_jjones]: What happens next is.

[phil_m_jjones]: If you’re in any one comfortable with those, try the words. The next step is,

[phil_m_jjones]: and look how what it does is, it just reduces friction. It allows you to take

[phil_m_jjones]: control in a situation without manipulating, but influencing, ethically

[phil_m_jjones]: removing the friction, leading people towards an outcome that you both

[phil_m_jjones]: believe was right, as opposed to insert in friction because of the fact that

[phil_m_jjones]: you lack leadership.

[david_horsager]: So this is a great one. It’s critical and it really helping solve quicker’s

[david_horsager]: like,

[phil_m_jjones]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: let’s move to the solution. Actually, I wanted a solution. Let’s move there

[phil_m_jjones]: correct,

[david_horsager]: so we could talk about the book a lot more. There’s so much here just to wet

[david_horsager]: people’s appetite. The chapter ten, The two types of people,

[david_horsager]: some great phrases, some great words, some, uh, some more great magic words.

[david_horsager]: Who might just have to have you on, but everybody can come here. Fill at the

[david_horsager]: trust. The leader summit Want to talk about you as a leader because you’ve

[david_horsager]: built some amazing organizations you’re running. You know you’, speaking and

[david_horsager]: and training and all this. But you’re also advising and you’re running a

[david_horsager]: whole. Another agency. that Um, you know you’ve got basically youve. youve

[david_horsager]: really helped develop other leaders to lead, And so Let what? what, At least

[david_horsager]: what I found is leaders that I trust, leaders that are leading others well,

[david_horsager]: are leading themselves well in some way, and you work to lead your family.

[david_horsager]: Well, you work to lead your fitness well, but if if you’ going to think

[david_horsager]: personally, do you have some of some routines daily or weekly that this is

[david_horsager]: so I stay relationally spiritually physically fit. because I do, and I’m

[david_horsager]: able to leave better because I do these specific routines. anything. Uh,

[david_horsager]: come to mind,

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m in the same struggle with this as I think many leaders are, and yes, I, I

[phil_m_jjones]: get a lot done.

[phil_m_jjones]: I also relentlessly believe that I’m inadequate of this, so don’t feel like I

[phil_m_jjones]: play from a position of strength, which I think is another quality that a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of leaders share. and I believe it’s a mindset to be on the relentless

[phil_m_jjones]: ▁quest. for better.

[phil_m_jjones]: I think that’s why many of us choose to leave, because we’re on the

[phil_m_jjones]: relentlessquest For better is never satisfied, never satisfied satisfied and

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s hard to find peace with that, but I believe that that’s where I’m at Is

[phil_m_jjones]: is if there’s a habit or a routine that I have is. I have never for more than

[phil_m_jjones]: twenty years of my professional life blamed anybody for anything,

[phil_m_jjones]: so I take full personal accountability, full persontal responsibility for

[phil_m_jjones]: everything is happening in my life, And I tell you what that allows me to run

[phil_m_jjones]: a pace that is different, Most

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: cause. I’m never pointing a finger. I’m never wondering whether it should

[phil_m_jjones]: have been different and I’m not looking at somebody else’s inadequacies or

[phil_m_jjones]: somebody else’s performance as their effect on my performance, so I think

[phil_m_jjones]: that is a habit that I that I feel very disciplined and come from a place of

[phil_m_jjones]: confidence on. I also believe massively

[phil_m_jjones]: in

[phil_m_jjones]: your circle

[phil_m_jjones]: who who the people are that you have that you can learn from, and I’ve worked

[phil_m_jjones]: very hard to get myself into rooms of people that stretch rooms of people

[phil_m_jjones]: that can ask questions of me that I’m not brave enough to ask myself who I

[phil_m_jjones]: trust enough to be able to give insights and answers. And I’ve done that for

[phil_m_jjones]: the last twenty plus years of a leader. As I think I started this interview

[phil_m_jjones]: that I’ve I’ve never been Wow. I’ve always been how, and I then has allowed

[phil_m_jjones]: me to get to a position as a leader. The the people that I once looked up to

[phil_m_jjones]: are now my Pierce.

[phil_m_jjones]: and that is

[phil_m_jjones]: is wonderful and something that. I’m always going to be humble enough to be a

[phil_m_jjones]: keep shooting. For us to say that there is so much wisdom around, and if you

[phil_m_jjones]: can

[phil_m_jjones]: choose who you take advice from,

[phil_m_jjones]: understand that advice and opinion are two different things,

[phil_m_jjones]: and

[phil_m_jjones]: give yourself the blessing of of being somebody who shows up for those people

[phil_m_jjones]: well enough. That means that then they’ll show up for you when you need them.

[phil_m_jjones]: That almost hidden team that nobody else gets to see

[phil_m_jjones]: is probably

[phil_m_jjones]: a habit that I’ve invested in in the dark hours in the shadows that nobody

[phil_m_jjones]: else sees has probably served me more than most.

[david_horsager]: you’ve built some amazing relships. I know your mission and it’s simple is

[david_horsager]: to help great people get better, and you’ve certainly made me better Full

[david_horsager]: disclosure. with everybody. There’s five of us that are part of a mastermind

[david_horsager]: group. We will be meeting in just a week, I think in New York, and we meet

[david_horsager]: multiple times a year. We all business owners that are trying to change the

[david_horsager]: world for good through practice or our companies.

[david_horsager]: Um, you love seeing other people do better. I’ve seen you start. I think

[david_horsager]: something that I. I think white people might be interested in giving to you,

[david_horsager]: Is you. You’re so willing to start with generosity. Start by giving, start

[david_horsager]: by by helping and Um in our industry, at least

[david_horsager]: multiple shared friends. Like if I’m going to ask people, Phil is a giver.

[david_horsager]: and I think that’s that’s a part of. that’s a habit that you have not to

[david_horsager]: press into this too much. We got. We got to land the plane soon, but

[david_horsager]: anything, just personally. that. If you’re going to open up the personal

[david_horsager]: commono, said, this is something I do regularly just as a leader to have a

[david_horsager]: better marriage to stay uh, healthy. To be a better dad

[david_horsager]: consistently,

[phil_m_jjones]: I think consistently, Um

[phil_m_jjones]: is to not bring the work version of me

[phil_m_jjones]: home that often

[david_horsager]: H,

[phil_m_jjones]: is

[phil_m_jjones]: in our line of work and as dynamically as we push it, I’m often the person

[phil_m_jjones]: that’s looked to find the answers. I’m often the person that is responsible

[phil_m_jjones]: for change that

[phil_m_jjones]: attribute that I talked about earlier of taking full personal responsibility

[phil_m_jjones]: for everything

[phil_m_jjones]: can have negative impacts if I bring it into my marriage or bringing into who

[david_horsager]: mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: I am as a father.

[phil_m_jjones]: and I I think consciously being out to flip that switch and something a lot

[phil_m_jjones]: of people don’t know about me David is, is, Um,

[phil_m_jjones]: what I’ve done over a period of time is is my middle initial in my brand has

[phil_m_jjones]: become meaning something to me. so Phil M. Jones is the person that people

[phil_m_jjones]: meet on stage, as the person that somebody meets in the boardroom, They, the

[phil_m_jjones]: person that somebody can call on and ask for help when I find optimistic

[phil_m_jjones]: solutions in just about any given challenge to their circumstances.

[phil_m_jjones]: But Phil Jones can cry, can be weak and not no answers. can um, have

[phil_m_jjones]: frustrations, have fears, have reservations and

[phil_m_jjones]: can let my wife help me. I’m feeling confused or scared. Um can show signs of

[phil_m_jjones]: honerability that don’t necessarily sharp in other areas of my life, and and,

[phil_m_jjones]: and being able to actively choose between those two characters is is

[phil_m_jjones]: something that I’ve grown into a habit of And

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s not that ones me, and one’s not me. The’, just just just two different

[phil_m_jjones]: faceets of how I choose to operate and I think that allows me to be better at

[phil_m_jjones]: home,

[david_horsager]: no doubt,

[phil_m_jjones]: cause otherwise, yeah, I just see it as a as a as a tussle. A. And and more

[phil_m_jjones]: recently, another habit was the realization that that I lived a good number

[phil_m_jjones]: of my years saying that it was.

[phil_m_jjones]: You know. it was like work, first, work, first, work first, Um, and then you

[phil_m_jjones]: know if I can find some time for family and find some time for health, then

[phil_m_jjones]: then good, happy days. I’ll get there one day. I’m still young and I started

[phil_m_jjones]: real young in this world. But what I’ve learned over time is that that that

[phil_m_jjones]: should be reversed like it’s health first, because without that I don’t have

[david_horsager]: mhmm.

[phil_m_jjones]: the ability to show up for anybody. Then it’s family, because otherwise

[phil_m_jjones]: what’s the point A and then work becomes the place Ba. Underneath that allows

[phil_m_jjones]: you to be other than deliver towards those attributes. And I think so much of

[phil_m_jjones]: work that I’ve fallen foul of in the past is is I treated it as a Sprn,

[phil_m_jjones]: A. And I’ve learned maybe over the last three, four five years is to better

[phil_m_jjones]: slow that down and think about a distant journey that we can go on that

[phil_m_jjones]: delivers joy over a period of time, as opposed to chases toward a

[phil_m_jjones]: predetermined finish. Learn

[david_horsager]: you’re almost a decade younger than me, and uh, you’re going to have to keep

[david_horsager]: pressing into the health one. Right as you go. Youve been Li.

[david_horsager]: as I was thinking about, I was chasing my kids and having a uh, this summer

[david_horsager]: and had a mountain bike accident trying to keep up with Uh. I. I learned

[david_horsager]: something by the way. I’m not just. I’m not the best athlete in the family

[david_horsager]: anymore or the second or the third or the. I’m worse than the twelve year

[david_horsager]: old. As far as aticism now, so um, but I, you know Ro in Jackson Holl, I was

[david_horsager]: actually speaking to Consul there and we end up doing the the downhill

[david_horsager]: mountain biking and and it takes a lot longer to heal at almost fifty. Um,

[david_horsager]: but uh, but I do think it’s interesting because I’ve had to become more

[david_horsager]: intention about certain things. I also can’t agree more. I know you know

[david_horsager]: everybody is different, but for me, you know Lisa and I, my wife and I

[david_horsager]: started this this business together twenty two years ago or so. And um, it

[david_horsager]: really

[david_horsager]: together. Even though she’s not in the out office with the team or that kind

[david_horsager]: of thing, she’s a a major part in decision making and processing, and just

[david_horsager]: also that, just home and and balance and be able to talk about other things

[david_horsager]: and actually be vulnerable Is certainly, I, I appreciate us, the the team.

[david_horsager]: You know, the the Ma mind we have. There’s real vulnebility, genuine

[david_horsager]: vulbility of another group of Uh, a group of accountability partners that

[david_horsager]: I’ve met with for twenty eight years, Um. That have also been significant,

[david_horsager]: but I really appreciate that. What do you? What are you learning right now?

[david_horsager]: What are you most curious about right now?

[phil_m_jjones]: what I most curious about right now is is

[phil_m_jjones]: exploring the question. enough.

[phil_m_jjones]: How much is enough? What’s enough?

[phil_m_jjones]: Where is that line and Withs’s leaders so often that more is better. More is

[phil_m_jjones]: better and more is better, and I’ve seen enough examples of that not being

[phil_m_jjones]: true to know that more isn’t always better.

[phil_m_jjones]: which,

[phil_m_jjones]: Yes, it’s okay to then say. how do you create space on what’s less, But the

[phil_m_jjones]: the curious question they have in all areas of life is like. What? Enough

[phil_m_jjones]: like? I can put relentless focus on the thing and I can make it better. No

[phil_m_jjones]: troub. But how do I find the answer to enough? whether

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: it’s financial, whether it’s health, whether it’s the size of the friend

[phil_m_jjones]: group, whether it’s the number of accolades, whether it’s quantity of

[phil_m_jjones]: speeches in the yearce,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: what’s the magic metric of enough

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[phil_m_jjones]: in in all key areas of life? And I’m ridiculously curious about trying to

[phil_m_jjones]: find an answer to that question?

[david_horsager]: we’re going to talk about it next week. I’ve got a couple of thoughts for

[david_horsager]: you.

[phil_m_jjones]: I’m excited you hear to hear. Lay down

[david_horsager]: Yeah, I’ve had some shifts. It’s definitely in my part and head over the

[david_horsager]: years, and uh can’t wait to be together. Where’s the best place to find out,

[david_horsager]: you know and and watch you, Phil M. Jones, Dot Com is the central website

[david_horsager]: where you can find out mores, or anywhere else we should look.

[phil_m_jjones]: from there, you can find all the other links that would be useful Is social

[phil_m_jjones]: network wise. I guess I’m more personally active on both link in and on Instg

[phil_m_jjones]: than any of the other platforms. And yeah, keep me abreast of of your

[phil_m_jjones]: journey. You going is one of the greatest things I can hear on Social is is

[phil_m_jjones]: either you’re working on something and you hear a road block and cannot

[phil_m_jjones]: provide some clarity. or that you’ve tried something used in. It’s working

[phil_m_jjones]: and it’s delivering for you that you’ve implemented and it’s made you better

[phil_m_jjones]: as a leader. Those are the greatest gifts that you can reach out to people

[phil_m_jjones]: like us with. I love your book, but more so, I took something from your book.

[phil_m_jjones]: I

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[phil_m_jjones]: used it. It made a difference in my world, and I thought you’d like to be

[phil_m_jjones]: able to know about it, and that that keeps us creative. It keeps us pushing.

[phil_m_jjones]: So any of those kind of bouncebcks would be very much appreciated

[david_horsager]: So it’s Phil M. Jones Dot Com and everywhere else you can find him from

[david_horsager]: there. One very interesting, innovative, uh thing that you did, Actually my

[david_horsager]: book, The The Middle, Bookook Daily Edge. We did kind of what was unique at

[david_horsager]: the time where we had video and and stuff in it. It didn’t take off in that

[david_horsager]: way, but in a new way you’ve been one of the first in a new way to kind of

[david_horsager]: have a a docu book or a video book. and uh, one of the first of its kind

[david_horsager]: produced this way. Yeah, and it’s super cool. I’ve seen and it, Um, and by

[david_horsager]: the way, just who everybody knows as much as we know, great leaders are

[david_horsager]: great readers and all this kind of thing. The average number of hours at

[david_horsager]: least the last time I checked a person watches junk, T. V or junk video, not

[david_horsager]: email, just junk screen time annually is twelve hundred and eight seven

[david_horsager]: hours a year. Average of books in American reads in their lifetime, not

[david_horsager]: after their formal education, Whether you know that was the high school

[david_horsager]: degree or a, you know whatever, or a uh, or a ph, h, D. Average books in

[david_horsager]: American reads in the lifet time is one book. It’s

[david_horsager]: and So what that means is most people reading ▁zero. Because you reading a

[david_horsager]: hundred, my brother reads a. or it is. of course it books over a hundred

[david_horsager]: fifty pages. So good night Moon does not count, but in that study, but the

[david_horsager]: bottom line is

[david_horsager]: you know great leaders do tend to be great readers, but you’ve come with

[david_horsager]: another way of of injecting information. So I mean, I want to land the

[david_horsager]: plane. But one minute about this cool video book and people should go to

[david_horsager]: your site be cause they can jump there from it. But just give us a one

[david_horsager]: minute on what you did,

[phil_m_jjones]: Are so much funine. I partner with an organization called Lit Video books,

[phil_m_jjones]: ▁l. I. T video books. There are a a really dynamic young Startu company. The

[phil_m_jjones]: Uh, a keen about visual learning, achieving Um, better impression rates when

[phil_m_jjones]: it comes to being out to turn biselling books into something else. Emy winn.

[phil_m_jjones]: In producers, great camera crew, great scripts and crew, And they, they took

[phil_m_jjones]: my book. We worked in partnership with them. We created a forty seven minute

[phil_m_jjones]: documentary that teaches people in both storytelling, interview, actor based

[phil_m_jjones]: scenes, plus um, animated graphics. We teach the core principles of the book

[phil_m_jjones]: in a forty seven minute video that people can watch, and I think from a from

[phil_m_jjones]: a business point of view that what we have here is something that could start

[phil_m_jjones]: to shake out the future of what online learning looks like. Where we. we’re

[phil_m_jjones]: starting to be out a play with a. an area that I call in phottainment, Where

[phil_m_jjones]: where what this is is is information delivered in a way that were already

[phil_m_jjones]: preromed. to want to be out to absorb it. And if you can learn something from

[phil_m_jjones]: you know the latest games on Thrones, I’m I’m guessing you can probably learn

[phil_m_jjones]: more from you know, a an hour long watch of of a well packaged well presented

[phil_m_jjones]: non talking head version of a book that has be put in new way, Say’s lit

[phil_m_jjones]: video books. I think if you go live video books, forward, slash exactly, or

[phil_m_jjones]: land on a landing page. And I think if you do it right now while they’re

[phil_m_jjones]: still in this startup mode, because Im book five of all the

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[phil_m_jjones]: books they’re going to go do is they get like a crazy offer Like you had to

[phil_m_jjones]: try a video book for like five bucks or nine bucks or some something insanely

[phil_m_jjones]: stupid. So if you even intriued byo, look at it. if you don’t like it, then

[phil_m_jjones]: I’ll buy it back from you.

[phil_m_jjones]: However, that might work.

[david_horsager]: and it’s yeah, it, in this attention span deprived culture. Hey, it’s a way

[david_horsager]: to to pour in great content. So hey, it’s a trusted leader. Show it’s got

[david_horsager]: it. We. we end with the final question every time this is the only one

[david_horsager]: that’s the same. And uh, So who is a leader you trust? And why?

[phil_m_jjones]: Who’s a leader I trust and why

[phil_m_jjones]: there are lots and the ones that will jump to mind the names that will not be

[phil_m_jjones]: known by anybody here on this this school.

[phil_m_jjones]: But the thing that I, I always learned to trust in the leader’s consistency

[david_horsager]: Hm?

[phil_m_jjones]: is how do they keep showing up? How do they keep showing up? How do they keep

[phil_m_jjones]: showing up? And

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[phil_m_jjones]: sometimes I trust the fact that they are pain in the Us. But but I definitely

[phil_m_jjones]: trust them if they’re consistently that and you know what you’re getting and

[david_horsager]: Yes, if you’re late all the time, I’ll trust you to be late. Consistency,

[phil_m_jjones]: you know what you’re getting into.

[david_horsager]: Hey, it’s it’s it’s the. Uh, The the cornerstonone, final pillar of the

[david_horsager]: eight pllar framework or eight pills of trust? Certainly, um, we, we believe

[david_horsager]: in it. Ph. it is. Uh, just been a joy to have you on Even more of a joy.

[david_horsager]: Count you as a friend. That has been the trusted leader show until next

[david_horsager]: time. stay trusted.