Ep. 14: Dave Mortensen on The 4 P’s For Developing a Healthy Culture

In this episode, David sits down with Dave Mortensen, President and Co-Founder of Self Esteem Brands, to discuss the 4 P’s for developing a healthy culture.

Dave’s Bio:
From cleaning exercise equipment to selling memberships to co-founding the world’s fastest-growing fitness club franchise, Dave Mortensen has done just about everything you can do in the fitness industry. That wide-ranging experience has helped him become one of the world’s leading experts on “Making Healthy Happen.” His heartfelt practice of emotional intelligence has earned Dave a reputation, amongst his co-workers and throughout the entire fitness industry, as a thoughtful and generous leader. And it’s just part of the reason he was recently named an “Entrepreneur of the Year” by Ernst & Young.

As the President and Co-founder of Self Esteem Brands, Dave leads a global collection of franchises intent upon improving the health and wellness of millions of people worldwide.

In the early days of Anytime Fitness, Mortensen helped spur the company’s growth by overseeing the development and implementation of its integrated security, surveillance, usage-tracking and reciprocity systems. These days, he’s heavily involved in Anytime Fitness’ evolution from a gym that emphasizes simple convenience to one that offers round-the-clock coaching services, utilizing the latest technology to provide members with support, nutritional information, and a wide array of new fitness training programs. Mortensen also continues to play an important role in leading the expansion of Anytime Fitness worldwide, frequently travelling to consult with master franchisees all over the globe.

The first Anytime Fitness gym opened its doors in Cambridge, MN in May of 2002. In the years since, Anytime Fitness has quickly become an international powerhouse — with nearly 5,000 gyms located in all 50 states and nearly 40 countries on all seven continents, serving nearly 4 million members.

Under Mortensen’s leadership, Anytime Fitness has earned numerous industry accolades, including “One of America’s Most Promising Companies,” “Top Global Franchise,” “Fastest-Growing Fitness Club,” a “Top Franchise for Minorities,” ”IFA Entrepreneur of the Year Award” and “The Best Place to Work in Minnesota” — four years in a row.

In addition to Anytime Fitness, Self Esteem Brands serves as the parent company to three other rapidly-growing franchises: Waxing the City – with nearly 200 studios dedicated to providing the finest waxing experience imaginable; The Bar Method – a popular, low-impact fitness franchise with more than 100 studios across 30 states and Canada; and Basecamp Fitness – a high-intensity, class-based fitness concept.

Dave’s Links:
Self Esteem Brands: https://www.sebrands.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DaveMortensenAF
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davemortensenaf/?hl=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmortensenaf/
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen with Mark Conklin: https://amzn.to/3beKjRC

Key Quotes:
1. “Relationships come first.”
2. “The worst voice in the meeting is the one not speaking.”
3. “You have to be naturally available.”
4. “Authenticity is really, really key.”
5. “The key thing in culture is living it.”
6. “Culture is a verb.”
7. “We take our business seriously, we don’t take ourselves too serious.”
8. “The best wins in eating healthy are incremental wins.”
9. “The best investment you can make is within yourself.”
10. “Love your kids.”
11. “You can’t ever try and prejudge where you’re going to land.”
12. “You have to be intentional about what you’re doing each and every day.”
13. “Less stifling, more giving.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Off Balance On Purpose” by Dan Thurmon: https://amzn.to/3bbF1Gb
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen with Mark Conklin: https://amzn.to/3beKjRC

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David hard cider. I have a special guest. He’s a friend. We’ve known each other for a long time. He is an amazing story. Dave Mortensen

David Horsager: President of Anytime Fitness and self esteem brands. Thanks for being with us today.

davemortensen: David. It’s my pleasure. I’m always glad to be with you.

David Horsager: Well, you are one of those leaders, it’s, it’s just an amazing story from

David Horsager: You know, cleaning

David Horsager: Athletic equipment to now kind of presiding over this fastest growing fitness.

David Horsager: Brand in Anytime Fitness almost

David Horsager: 5000 franchises around the world, plus a host of other

David Horsager: things you’re doing. Can you just give us a two.

David Horsager: To three minutes I

David Horsager: On the story of

David Horsager: where you came from and where you are now.

davemortensen: You know my story’s a pretty gritty story I you know what I was raised by two. Just amazing parents

davemortensen: Hardworking individuals. My dad was a truck driver. My mom was a factory worker and they, you know, they both were 100% parents and you know lucky to still have them in my life today and still being

davemortensen: Someone who still makes an impact in my life. Right. But from that point, you know, I

davemortensen: came at a college and said I needed to do something. And believe it or not, I dropped out of college. Whoa. What a story, there’s no advice here do not drop out of college, I’d love to redo that one.

davemortensen: dropped out of college purely financial reasons and a lot of different things going on my life and I you know what I knew I wanted to be in the health and wellness industry.

davemortensen: So I went around looking for jobs I end up taking a job for $4 an hour at a front desk at a health club and my story was kind of written from there within a year I was an assistant

davemortensen: Manager and leading my way up there shortly thereafter met my business partner who has been my business partner for over 30 years and through that we’ve been a part of each other’s families and

davemortensen: revelations of life and through those experiences. We started out as consultants traveling all across the

davemortensen: US, Canada, Australia is working with independent health clubs after our experience of running gyms.

davemortensen: And from that experience. We decided something needed to change in the industry, you know, at that time, fitness was a destination place. And really we needed to make this more available to all consumers and all communities.

davemortensen: And we came, came up with this concept of Anytime Fitness and from that point, it’s just grown exponentially. You know, as you know, in

davemortensen: You know, close to 5000 facilities and 30 plus countries and and all seven continents. It’s been a crazy ride and this last year has been crazier than ever, but

davemortensen: You know, it’s still relishes what we started about oh 809 and that’s really believing in our purpose. And I know you’re really driven by that.

davemortensen: Our purpose is really doing proved the self esteem of the world and we believe you only can do that one person at a time and that’s been something that’s driven our other brands with self esteem brands with of course base camp, but as the bar method in wax in the city.

David Horsager: That’s amazing. So I didn’t know this by the way you know I’ve done work on every all 50 states.

David Horsager: six continents, but the seven continents. So you get an Anytime Fitness in Antarctica.

davemortensen: Well, I tell you, Dave. A year ago, this past December we launched on a boat called the Magellan in Antarctica and a lot of people say, why did you open as

davemortensen: A fitness center or

davemortensen: Like anyone would say because we want to do. And we wanted to be able to be the first franchises swimming all seven continents, because we really do believe in the benefits of health.

davemortensen: And we felt can’t be true to ourselves if we’re not dropping every community possible. So yeah, we put it on a boat and spent a 10 days out on on the ocean, it was

David Horsager: Incredible. That is, that’s fantastic. Well, that

David Horsager: I believe in it. I’ve been a member of Anytime Fitness and I know you got a lot of other brands.

David Horsager: But tell me about specifically this one as far as it relates to coming to this last

David Horsager: Year of code and the challenge we talked about

David Horsager: You know, trust out, you know, trust is especially it’s

David Horsager: Built the fastest in crisis, how we respond in crisis, we can lose or gain a

David Horsager: Whole lot of trust. But what what are some takeaways from the last year.

davemortensen: Was last year, the biggest takeaway. I’m seeing this through business leaders all across

davemortensen: The US and even in our other countries as well is that we’ve really realized that who are core people that surround us you know our relationships come first and how we combine our efforts and align our efforts and the way we think.

davemortensen: You’ve seen everyone take an initiative List of this big and really narrowed down to the key essential things that you need a hyper focus on tell you I think most businesses are delivering deeper on the fact that they’ve aligned their teams on this focal point and the real

davemortensen: Opportunity here is in every businesses go, what are the key things that we did to stay so focused during this period of time and bring this into 2021 and beyond.

davemortensen: And make sure we don’t lose that type of hyper focus and just genuine alignment between the organizations we put all our noise aside, Dave.

davemortensen: Mm hmm. Right.

davemortensen: We’ll start to do that.

David Horsager: I think its interest that’s really interesting because early on in the pandemic. I was on a

David Horsager: Call with McChrystal General McChrystal and he was talking about how in these times.

David Horsager: You don’t have a one year vision. You don’t have a nine month six month vision. You got an air out. What’s the

David Horsager: What’s the flagpole. The flag. The plan this week.

David Horsager: In fact, he talked about when he was, you know, leading the whole

David Horsager: Europe, they’re trying to find Osama bin Laden. They’re trying to find, you know, and there’s like they couldn’t they couldn’t get ahead on the

David Horsager: What they needed to know. And so he got every morning every single day said we’re having a meeting every day across Europe and Africa 2200 people are on this call at 680 600 and everybody’s on the call anybody can share. We need it. The newest data every 24 hours that you’re finding

David Horsager: And they took 30 minutes and after that they made the game plan for the day. So it was it was this hyper focus on this thing. You know, so

David Horsager: That’s that’s interesting because I think in these times. And that’s I think that’s something we can take with us changes not going away hyper focus is value long term here, you know, so

davemortensen: You said a key thing about that meeting to one of the things that we always talk about

davemortensen: Is making sure that everyone can share, you know, one of the most important things in a meeting that we always say is that the you know the worst voice in the meeting is a one not speaking

davemortensen: Right. We all know that we have one mouth and two ears. So we need to be doing a lot of listening.

davemortensen: But even more importantly your point of view your POV is so important inside the organization as a leader, the more POV. We can get across the delineation of our in our business deep into the field, the better decision making. We can make as an organization, so

David Horsager: Don’t do that.

David Horsager: How do you listen to that. It’s like

David Horsager: You got people I know.

David Horsager: I mean, that’s terrible copy was built on that this idea where they, a lot of those cool little

David Horsager: sayings. Thanks a lot. J and all that, that they came from frontline minimum wage workers because they had a way of do in those days when caribou is growing so

David Horsager: Much back in the 2000 and when they became two number two to to Starbucks. And then, of course,

David Horsager: Things change again because they didn’t keep up in certain ways and and but but those they had this way of listening to the front lines.

David Horsager: How do you, how do you do it. I mean, I think a lot of leaders struggles with this THEY SAY IT’S IMPORTANT TO HEAR FROM EVERYBODY but they don’t really

davemortensen: Well, there’s two ways to do it formally organically and you need to do both, you know, I’ll start with a formal process.

davemortensen: The formal process. You got to make sure that you make your organization readily available from the field up and we believe in.

davemortensen: When you look at an org chart flip that thing upside down. I hate the triangle. I just wanted upside down the leader should be on the bottom of that triangle, and we should be looking up because this is where all the work happens

davemortensen: Is that the top of that triangle. So now or at the bottom. They say, but we put it to the top. And the reason is, is because we have to make sure that we’re always asking from level to level two level would you hear

davemortensen: From your peers. Would you hear from the field. What did you hear from the people making the difference in the impact of what you do so.

davemortensen: Having a formal process to make sure you’re gaining that information and making sure all voices are being both spoken heard are key and in the formal process. So that’s one. Number two is

davemortensen: You have to be naturally available availability to your team and to anyone in your organization. I’ll give an example. When I sit down in any call that I make with anyone. One of the things I do and I’ll do it today is given my cell phone number.

davemortensen: You know my cell phone number is available on my email. It’s available everywhere. Now I’m going to tell people

David Horsager: I thought I was special.

davemortensen: Nobody give that to everybody, because you know what, here’s the deal just text me, call me ask a question.

davemortensen: Being available for people is very key. If you want to be able to make a change in people’s lives and having that role down in your organization to make sure that they are available is also very important.

David Horsager: That’s huge. I mean you got 5000 franchise. You got three other

David Horsager: You know,

David Horsager: Franchise businesses and giving yourself on everybody. I think is


David Horsager: You know, I want to jump to to your, your, the four P’s Damien how you develop culture there and we just a quick rundown and

David Horsager: Share the book you wrote on it too. So everybody hears it, but I think this is, you know, as we frame up culture we talk about how do we create high performing cultures on trust. Culture is critical. Trust is critical, but it’s it’s a high trust culture that matters. And I think you’ve done

David Horsager: That better than many

David Horsager: I’ve looked

davemortensen: Deeply at I APPRECIATE THAT. Dave and I think one of the key things before I even go into the PS, I’ll say authenticity is really, really key. I know so many people that want to build

davemortensen: Out a plan for culture and they write it out and put a lot of great words together and they use their marketing department. They all do this and they drive this like here’s who we are and then they posted on the wall.

David Horsager: Yeah, but

davemortensen: The thing in culture is living it living it and believing it and sustaining it three organization. It’s actionable. You have to make it a verb and

davemortensen: You know, culture is a verb, make it a verb in your business. And it’s amazing what will what will resonate across the organization for us, it was about building a culture of love work.

davemortensen: And and and that’s the name of our book, of course, but love work was all about loving what we do. But it’s not just about loving work. It’s really about loving life.

davemortensen: And if you look at our P’s. We believe it’s it as prevalent in your personal life as your business life first P, of course, being people

davemortensen: And and we all talk about people, but I’ll give you the key component to it.

davemortensen: If you want to deliver on on healthy relationships you have to care more than just about what they’re doing for your business.

davemortensen: You have to care about what they are doing in their life, and you have to invest 50% of that time and development on what they are doing in helping build themselves to be a better person.

davemortensen: Inside and outside your organization. The other 50 is what are they doing on the practical purpose in your business.

davemortensen: But if you don’t focus on the energies around what they’re doing, personally, a lot of people get scared to go in that world. I’ll tell you you’re missing a big boat. You have to, you have to put that out then as it

davemortensen: entices city and care into those individuals.

davemortensen: The next is driving our, our second P which is purpose and we talked about that for us. It’s really simple improving the self esteem of the world.

davemortensen: And every brand has its own level of purpose. So what is supporting that would be an example in Anytime Fitness. It’s let’s make healthy happen and we believe by delivering on that we’re driving and developing our purpose around building self esteem of the world.

davemortensen: And then of course profits and I’ll tell you, Dave. If we change something in the book we rewrite the book we change the word prophet, giving you a little nugget.

davemortensen: And for anyway. It’s not really about driving profits. We know profits are a necessity.

davemortensen: But if I get changed that word around it would be really performance.

davemortensen: Because performance is a p, we believe that goes much deeper into the aspect of your business than just profits performance drives those profits. So that is really a keyboard. And last but not least,

davemortensen: I’ve said this to you. Many times, but really enjoying what you do and we use the word PLAY. And play really means this, we take our business. Seriously, we don’t take ourselves too serious.

davemortensen: You know we meet so many people that are so serious about

davemortensen: Who they are, they’re very intentional. I love that about everyone

davemortensen: But relax a little bit because people want to see your core person. They want to see who you are when you laugh. They want to see you when you cry.

davemortensen: And being that core person is what really brings out creativity, collaboration community inside of your business. And that’s how we drive our purpose and we rebalance that every year.

David Horsager: And I know you actually do live it. I know you give up a

David Horsager: Percentage of every dollar to that developing your people, even on their home you know their, their personal lives and you shout that purpose, whether it’s through your

David Horsager: annual meetings and training and I mean there are very few people, I think that when on training as much as you do communicating how you know training people to be successful in building their franchise and everything.

David Horsager: Else. Let’s get personal though, let’s jump into, you know, I know you’re healthy and seek to be healthy at home and in

David Horsager: Life what habits. We see trusted leaders that we talked about and try to become our, our have certain routines and certain habits.

davemortensen: Well, some of yours.

davemortensen: One of the questions you’re gonna ask me is, what is the book you’re reading. So when you say routines and habits and the most off balance person you’ll ever meet. So I’m reading this book right now with Dan Thurman, right.

davemortensen: Sure, it’s really about how do you take a person who’s got a lot going on in their world. And it’s out of balance feels out of balance all the time and bringing it to balance and I’ll tell you how I do it.

davemortensen: And it’s sometimes it’s hot and cold. In fact I reestablish it. In fact, I’m working on reestablishing and even for 2021 yet everyone started on January 1 I’m still working on mine. So I’m a little behind the eight ball, but it’s really about the

davemortensen: The four things that I believe in which is Sam and I’ve talked about this before. So my balance in life starts with spiritual

davemortensen: And for anyone that’s listening. It’s where where your belief in faith is and what your higher being, is above you. Right. So mine is very, very spiritual and understanding that connection to that.

davemortensen: Of course, the next one is emotional and emotional to me is really about

davemortensen: The relationships I have around me. You know, so emotion is all about my connections and the relationships with my family, my kids, my friends.

davemortensen: Everybody in the world of my life. So understanding those relational connections. The, the, the next one of course is mental. How am I feeding my brain.

davemortensen: People forget you need to be feeding that thing 24 seven if you want to continue to harness it and develop it, but then you have to evaluate do it differently.

davemortensen: You can learn in so many different areas. So I like to find different ways to take in information in one year. It might be in podcast one year, it might

davemortensen: Be more reading one year just might be just listening to mentors that I believe in, or I’m connected to. So there’s a lot of different ways to do it.

davemortensen: And last but not least, to really create my balance in life. It’s my physical health and really making sure that I have a consistency in my exercise in my life.

davemortensen: You know, walking the walk is very, very important for us. And that’s something that is also not only in exercise, but also in the way I eat as well.

David Horsager: What are some routines there you know you

David Horsager: All of these are so critical, but you’re

David Horsager: In the US, anytime at least is in the fitness space, what do

David Horsager: You what do you

David Horsager: What are you intentional eating.

David Horsager: And what are you intentional about doing exercise wise that helps you. I think we talked about a lot here at the institute input equals output. Doesn’t matter if it’s your body or

David Horsager: You know I know for me I gotta try to get five vegetables a day in and almost

David Horsager: Almost two gallons of water. Those are tipping point. But if I do those other things fall into place. Plus, I can handle some ice cream once in a while, you know, so it’s like, what, what, what are the things that you try to do that helped you as far as that that physical on the on

David Horsager: The food. Some of a struggle with that. I was 15 pounds heavier one

David Horsager: Point and I still

David Horsager: Am challenged

davemortensen: Every day it’s work.

David Horsager: But what do you do

davemortensen: The food side because it’s my challenge as well. In fact, I want everyone to be listening, saying, Listen, I’m not a foodie.

davemortensen: I’m not a person who is like

davemortensen: Perfect on the way I eat every day and I struggle in every day. So it’s really taking a little bit out and adding a little positive it’s incremental. I think the best wins and eating healthy

davemortensen: Are incremental wins. Because if you try and do a transformative change. And I see people do this all the time where they just go, Okay, I’ve knocked out everything I love and now I’m eating everything I hate

davemortensen: And I’m giving

davemortensen: Her help, but they’re miserable day they’re miserable in it. Take incremental wins you know take something out if it’s that you know

davemortensen: One time in my life I broke 200 pounds and it was horrible for me and it was when I was drinking what was called and sorry caribou. But I’m going to call you out on this, it’s this thing called a Carmel high rise and I fell in love with that and I simply

davemortensen: Accept out of my diet right and I added a healthy thing into that diet. So it’s knowing when you need to take things out and add things. And the other thing for me is because I was born in an era where you ate everything on your plate.

davemortensen: You know, like everything in, in the US, we all know consumption consumption is such a big deal, just eat a little bit less in what you’re eating.

David Horsager: Those are what uh

David Horsager: But there’s people starving in somewhere. So you got to eat it. That’s what I heard.

davemortensen: You know, I did too. But, you know, it was funny that in an error when

davemortensen: We were starving to know what the food and everything else.

davemortensen: It’s just a matter of being or putting less on your plate.

David Horsager: Because that’s what what’s it. What’s it. What’s the exercise.

David Horsager: regime that you can do a minute.

David Horsager: That’s sticking consistent for

David Horsager: People can be challenged especially busy executives and leaders like

David Horsager: You and what what what are you doing, it’s working.

davemortensen: You know, it’s, I tell everyone, it’s the same thing that we’re works for me that you know when you teach someone how to read a book What Do You okay, how much time. Can you commit the day to reading

davemortensen: Do the same thing with exercise I have found when I work out every day. I am more consistent than I, if I say I’m going to work out three days a week, because you know what happens with three days a week, you

David Horsager: Know,

davemortensen: I got three days out of seven by the end of the week. All of a sudden, I’m going. I haven’t done any

David Horsager: I could not agree with this point more

David Horsager: We are, you know, I started getting cut you here.

David Horsager: It’s like it’s cycle you

davemortensen: Have to put things

David Horsager: In natural cycles.

David Horsager: So when people say to me, as an example, they’re going to meet bi weekly no chance you have to have everything as at there has to be daily

David Horsager: Weekly every Monday morning monthly every first of

David Horsager: Quarterly.

davemortensen: Or annually.

davemortensen: It’s the only

David Horsager: When you think of

David Horsager: Strategic or actions, our habits. They have to be in a cycle that works not this

David Horsager: every six weeks we’ll do this.

David Horsager: Or every other month

David Horsager: every other Tuesday, which Tuesday is that I’m skipping three days a week, whichever ones that I feel like, you know, so that that’s fascinating to me that you

David Horsager: Said that great point.

davemortensen: My in my best place. It’s really between 35 and 40 minutes. My rule of thumb is, I got to work out at least 35 minutes and I cannot work past 45 minutes

David Horsager: Because when you do it.

davemortensen: What’s out

David Horsager: When you do it usually

davemortensen: My best best moments in my life, or when I do it in the morning. Lately it’s been in the afternoons.

davemortensen: Just because I’ve had some change go through life that I’ve had to do that with the kids and everything else going on with schools.

davemortensen: I’ve changed my workout, but I will go back to mornings. And the only reason for me is because one. I hate working out in the mornings and I love getting things checked off on my list. And I know if I do in the mornings I will have it jack

David Horsager: Yeah. Well, I think it’s got to help. At least I think it would help to work where you work at the big

David Horsager: Beautiful. Anytime Fitness offices that have an amazing

David Horsager: Workout centers where you’re trying all the newest equipment. I, I love your facility that’s got to be a

David Horsager: Really cool benefit. Right.

davemortensen: I have an advantage to, you know, exercise, that’s for sure.

David Horsager: Well, that is awesome. How, what are you doing to get better in life. Now, any one of these for simple things. What do you, what are you working on now.

davemortensen: Right now, for me it’s emotional really, it needs to be. I’m going to deepen the spiritual side. But today, right now it’s emotional it’s

davemortensen: Really because of all the adversity that we’ve seen over the last year.

davemortensen: Really deepening the relationships. Our relationships have absolutely changed.

davemortensen: And I don’t just mean at home because at home. Sometimes we deepen those. But those are different to because we’re with them so much more than we were before.

davemortensen: They’ve eroded some of that strength you had when you had that time away, but it’s the same thing and deepening the relationships like you and I

davemortensen: Being able to connect and go to lunch and all the things that you do is we got to change our habits and our routines to deepen some of those relationships.

davemortensen: How are we intentionally doing that is making those connections happen. So it’s just being more intentional about connecting with all the, all the people that surround me. Hmm.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: What do you

David Horsager: Just for you, you know, play is one of the four P’s, what do

David Horsager: You love to do to play or how do you bring played

To work.

davemortensen: Well, there’s there’s couple things is forced play on people, because you know this year has been a year of people have worked so hard.

davemortensen: And you know what, I am a firm believer, the best investment you can make is within yourself.

davemortensen: I always believe if you want to be a giver. I mean, some of the greatest givers in the world. And my first advice is, what do you do for you.

davemortensen: You know, it’s the first question I have problems, everyone. What do you do for you.

davemortensen: For me it’s spontaneity. I love spot as fun right so I love to do enjoyment that you didn’t expect to do it could be waking up in the morning and kids go and let’s go skiing.

davemortensen: It could be, you know what, I’m going to go on a trip. And I’m going to go travel there zombie or golf or some friends, whatever those things are that gets you away. It’s always something for me being active because I’m an active person. I love to be

davemortensen: Active love that. What I advise for people for play is just take time to do it be intentional about it and in foster it in your business.

davemortensen: You know, ask people, What are you doing for fun, that’s such a great question to ask people, and everyone looks at you like, Oh, why are you asking me that you know what

davemortensen: I actually care that you are enjoying life to its fullest beyond what you do here at our business or anything that I’m connecting to

David Horsager: love it so much. Here we’ve got Sam. We’ve got the four P’s who’ve got the

David Horsager: Everyday in let’s see we got

David Horsager: I here’s some takeaways so far.

David Horsager: What did you hear from the front line. How can I be more available authenticity, if you don’t live at the four P’s don’t even matter, matter people purpose performance and play. I love my favorite so far. Culture is

davemortensen: A verb.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: So let’s say and this key.

David Horsager: About hyper focus

David Horsager: Hey, we got to get to the lightning round. So here we go.

David Horsager: We have so much more we could talk

David Horsager: About but in our last three minutes together. Here we go.

David Horsager: Let’s I saw the went Dan thurman’s book I’m friends with Dan love that one. Any other favorite resource your book right now.

davemortensen: You know, right now. Yeah, yours and I’m waiting to read the full thing that’s

davemortensen: The next book that

David Horsager: Made you all right, trust me leader.

davemortensen: In that everybody read the book because you will gain a lot from that.

David Horsager: Well, thank you.

David Horsager: Something you can’t live without.

davemortensen: Oh geez, I really cannot live without my kids.

davemortensen: You know, I’d say.

davemortensen: Love your kids. Yeah.

David Horsager: Love it, even when you don’t right

David Horsager: Even when you don’t feel like

davemortensen: I know, even when you don’t like them love them.

davemortensen: And take time with them as a collective group, but also take time with them individually. If you have multiple kids.

David Horsager: I remember that about you date need to the kids individually love it best advice you’ve ever been given.

davemortensen: Ever been given. Oh. Oh, you don’t want no this day, I gotta figure out how to say this.

davemortensen: Best advice. I was make it really quick. Um, my dad came home from truck driving one day and I woke up in the morning I was all intentional about, but I was going to be. And I told him what I was going to be any basically said no, you’ll never do that. I wanted to be a truck driver.

davemortensen: And and now I won’t tell you how he worded it to me because it was pretty black and white. It was pretty No you’re not.

davemortensen: Let’s leave it at that.

davemortensen: Why, that was the best advice for me at the time and moment in my life is you can’t ever try and prejudge where you’re going to land.

davemortensen: You have to be intentional about what you do in each and every day and allow life to bring it to you.

davemortensen: Yes, you need to plan for those things. But you have to be ready to ship with those plans and you know what if you’re intentional about what you do, day to day and living the life to your fullest. Guess what.

davemortensen: Your future will be bright. You just got to make sure that you’re living it and not spending so much time trying to live in the summit when you haven’t even started the client.

David Horsager: You’re still passionate about building this culture, you’ve got an amazing family you do volunteer work you help people. I’ve seen your mentor and love and give, give, give, you’ve built. Anytime Fitness waxing. The city base camp, the

David Horsager: Bar method.

David Horsager: One thing left on the bucket list for Dave


davemortensen: Oh, there will never be one thing left right now. I’ll tell you the thing that I’m working on. And this is what I think most leaders need to be working on in life is learning to

davemortensen: Cherish empowerment and understand how to deliver and execute on empowerment

davemortensen: Empowerment to me is something we do not do enough of as leaders and we don’t do enough as parents, and we don’t do enough as individuals and it’s empowering individuals that surround you and giving them the gift of decision making and

davemortensen: I want them to feed that now how you deliver it, and how you follow up with it and how you creatively foster it in your in your organization is important but you stifle people every day in my ultimate gift right now to myself as less stifling and more giving

David Horsager: More giving

David Horsager: That is work I there’s so much we can dig into on empowerment, how we do it, how we how we

David Horsager: Work right for leaders to give. But let’s just

davemortensen: A bucket list.

David Horsager: That’s the bucket list.

David Horsager: Let’s do more of it. Well, it is it is just a privilege to be with you. Where can people find out more about Dave Mortensen Anytime Fitness in the

David Horsager: Self esteem brand.

davemortensen: Obviously you can go to any one of our brands but self esteem brands calm is, of course, one that you can obviously establish connect and go to my LinkedIn profile day Mortensen AF.

davemortensen: Or Twitter either one of those and reach out to me and then I told you I’d give it to you, Dave. I will at 612-991-3939 if you have a question, just text me

David Horsager: I’m pretty lucky to get a whole

David Horsager: Thank you. Well, we’re going to put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com we’ll put how to find him and Dave Mortensen the first time ever.

David Horsager: They born since personal mobile number no leaders done that on the show.

David Horsager: To this point, thank you for that. Hey, final question.

David Horsager: It’s the trusted leader show

David Horsager: Who’s the leader you trust and why

davemortensen: Is a gentleman by the name of Steve Ramat all on there’s many, many people you connect with

davemortensen: A PARTNER IN OUR brands is a brand called work financial if you ever look them up work financial a very, very large portfolio franchise or is

davemortensen: There an investor in in self esteem brands and there is a gentleman that has sat on our board for years has been a leader of brands called like

davemortensen: Branded and others. But the reason I’ve been a big fan of Steve Rahman Allah is because he again.

davemortensen: He’s authentic and when I first met this gentleman as much as if you’ve ever worked the private equity there about the financial influence. The first thing he said is Dave continue to live.

davemortensen: your guys’s culture in your purpose, and I’ll and you know what these prophets will happen. So you just very athletic and the way he leads. He just is. He’s very

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Wow. Lots here and lots more. We could talk about

David Horsager: Thank you. Thank you for the gift of your time always thank you for the gift of your friendship. Thank you for being an example of a trusted leader and brand and organization and just it’s

David Horsager: It’s a privilege to be on with you and a privilege to know you and you’ll see everything in the show notes. Like I said, trusted leader show.com anyone who wants to connect or has questions.

David Horsager: Thank you for joining us on the trusted leader show. Until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 13: Jason Dorsey on How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business

In this episode, David sits down with Jason Dorsey, #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor, to discuss how Gen Z will change the future of business.

Jason’s Bio:
Jason Dorsey is on a mission to separate generational myth from truth so leaders can drive results with every generation. Jason is recognized as the #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor. He has been featured on over 200 TV shows from 60 Minutes to the Today Show. As President of The Center for Generational Kinetics, Jason and his team have led more than 65 generational research studies around the world. His clients include many of the biggest global brands as well as rapidly growing startups, PE, and VC. An acclaimed speaker, Jason has received over 1,000 standing ovations. His latest bestselling book is Zconomy: How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business–and What To Do About It. Learn more about Jason at JasonDorsey.com or on his research website, GenHQ.com.

Jason’s Links:
Website: https://jasondorsey.com/
The Center for Generational Kinetics: https://genhq.com/
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondorsey/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasondorsey
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jason.ryan.dorsey
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason_dorsey/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/thegenyguy

Key Quotes:
1. “Every generation brings something important and valuable.”
2. “It’s not about catering to any one generation.”
3. “Frequency of communication is very important.”
4. “Gen Z wants to be heard.”
5. “Provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.”
6. “Communication varies in interpretation by generation.”
7. “Gen Z expects faster access to the money they earn.”
8. “Video is the #1 way to educate Gen Z.”
9. “Every generation is having a different experience in the time of COVID.”
10. “The greatest way to test a culture is to talk to the front line leaders.”
11. “If you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability.”
12. “You want to make it safe for people to ask for help.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
“The Alchemist” by Paulo Coelho: https://amzn.to/2O7Ho3T
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
Apple iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/
Apple iCloud: https://www.apple.com/icloud/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show i’m David horse auger and i’m joined by a special guest, who is also a very close friend we.

Jason Dorsey: love that.

David Horsager: Jason dorsey welcome.

Jason Dorsey: hey Thank you David really a pleasure to get to be with you and I have this conversation and and share all these great new insights with your fans followers platform and everybody else who’s interested in trusted leadership, because that is important, so thank you for inviting me on.

David Horsager: Thank you, many people know they may not know, but he’s been on the today show he’s been on 60 minutes he is the foremost expert in generations and he’s president of the Center of generational kinetics.

David Horsager: And he’s just he’s a brilliant leader brilliant entrepreneur and business leaders a board member he’s on you know just advising some of the top leaders in the world and i’m just i’m grateful to call you friend Jason so.

David Horsager: yeah going.

Jason Dorsey: yeah glad to be here with you all that stuff is generally true, so thank you for sharing that.

David Horsager: There you go, so you know let’s jump right in because the new book is called Z economy, and you know you’re an expert on generations you’ve been talking about this for decades.

David Horsager: But this new generation I think people are kind of like what what really is that what’s that mean is that gen Z is that this is it that tell us about how does gen Z play into how do we lead them who are they.

Jason Dorsey: yeah I think it’s probably helpful to maybe take a step back and share how we think about generations, and then we can jump into gen Z because.

Jason Dorsey: I think that’ll get anybody on the same page so when we think about generations, the concept.

Jason Dorsey: You know we’re research firm and we specifically do behavioral research and teaching K our company’s called the Center for generational kinetics.

Jason Dorsey: And when we think about gen Z or outside the US we call them Jen said.

Jason Dorsey: we’re really focused on understanding of who they are, what makes them similar what makes them different what technologies do they use, how do they look for a job, what do they look for an employer.

Jason Dorsey: How they think about money and retirement and marriage and all these different types of things, and so in our work, what I think is most important.

Jason Dorsey: Is we’ve uncovered through data through we’ve led more than 65 studies that much of what is said about generations it’s just not true.

Jason Dorsey: And you and I have both live that right i’m a millennial and people say oh millennials are entitled the pencil fallen off they don’t show up for work they’re terrible leaders.

Jason Dorsey: And then we look at the data and it turns out more millennials are working than anyone else so United States and they’re more millennial managers.

Jason Dorsey: Or you say well gen X, you know your engine X can gen X be loyal and what our research shows us they’re incredibly loyal and very good at making decisions and leading.

Jason Dorsey: And so what we’ve uncovered is that every generation bring something really important invaluable and that’s particularly true with gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: Who is very misunderstood and that’s why we wrote the news economy book, thank you for mentioning that we were thrilled it was a number one new release on Amazon and a top 10 business book on forbes so we’re super excited to have that out, so when we think about gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: The first thing to sort of think about is when were they born that helps us to have a little bit of a mental framework to know when they start and stop so based on our research gen Z is born starting around 1996.

Jason Dorsey: and for your listeners, who are based in the US, where that comes from is, they do not remember 911.

Jason Dorsey: And that was one of our most famous discoveries early on, is that, how do we know when millennials and gen Z begins.

Jason Dorsey: Sometimes there’s a generation defining moment you remember it, it creates fear of the unknown uncertainty emotion, all these things for me on 911 I remember, I was in Los Angeles, I was there with my dad.

Jason Dorsey: was totally freaking out my dad was completely stone faced didn’t you know share any emotion, even though we’re watching the same TV.

Jason Dorsey: And about 30 minutes later my grandfather called he was about eight years old, then and and he said J boy it’s going to be okay.

Jason Dorsey: i’ve been through this before we got through it we’ll get through it again it’s going to be okay, I promise.

Jason Dorsey: And so, he was watching 911 and he was thinking about World War Two and for him those Pearl harbor.

Jason Dorsey: My dad years later, told me he was thinking about the Vietnam draft and he thought I was about to get drafted that’s why he had no emotion.

Jason Dorsey: I had no context for this so i’m just freaking out because you know my family’s from New York and I went to school there, and all this.

Jason Dorsey: gen Z this is really key does not remember 911.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not a contemporary event for them it’d be like asking you or me to talk about the JFK assassination we weren’t there we don’t know we can watch on YouTube but it’s not the same, because you don’t have that fear of the unknown.

Jason Dorsey: So that’s What helps us to understand when this gen Z start, and then you get to that what when does gen Z and right yeah it’s like what are the book ends.

Jason Dorsey: And what we what we believe to be true is that gen Z ends around 2015, and the reason is, we believe the capstone event is now coven 19 this pandemic.

Jason Dorsey: And so, as we think about coven 19 and how it’s impacting the generation.

Jason Dorsey: This is there, where were you when moment because Member there now right at that formative stage or in middle school or elementary or they’re in college university or they’re in the workforce.

Jason Dorsey: And all of a sudden everything they’ve known has been offended they had to come back home if they had left the House maybe they can’t leave.

Jason Dorsey: All of these things have suddenly change the job that they were going to do that industry, no longer has any jobs.

Jason Dorsey: there’s so much here, and then you add the social and emotional of homeschool and remote school and just on on on dating and you can’t go to work, like all of this stuff put together.

Jason Dorsey: This is the 911 for gen Z but even more so because it’s extended over.

Jason Dorsey: Such a long period of time so as we think about that the oldest members of gen Z are roughly around 25 years old.

Jason Dorsey: What do we know about them sort of directly to your question, we know they’re the most diverse generation in United States history, more diverse than any previous generation and that’s a huge part of who they are.

Jason Dorsey: What our research shows us is they’re much more tied to social causes when we think about employers, we just did our new state of gen Z study on this.

Jason Dorsey: And the social causes that gen Z really aligns with are incredibly important they look for that before they apply they look for that after they apply, whether or not they’re deciding to accept a job.

Jason Dorsey: And now, they even look at whether or not they’re going to stay with an employer, based on the social causes that the employer selects so, for example.

Jason Dorsey: In the last four years we’ve tracked social causes for employers when it comes to leadership with gen Z most wanted was to know that a company was combating climate change, that was the big sort of rally cry that generation.

Jason Dorsey: But what we’ve seen now is that their big biggest biggest by far rally cry what gets them fired up is social justice and really trying to make some changes there so they’re looking for that and employers that’s changed over the last year.

Jason Dorsey: We also know, a gen Z is they don’t remember a time before the smartphone well that changes everything when you think to your area of expertise.

Jason Dorsey: Around leadership and communication even trust, which are the world expert on all of those things changed.

Jason Dorsey: When your your preferred method of communicating and engaging with the world is a small screen and that’s all you’ve ever know well that affects everything right from banking to onboarding.

Jason Dorsey: So, as we think about the generation, they have a different relationship with technology like right now what we’re tracking is they want onboarding by text message.

Jason Dorsey: Well, many companies aren’t set up to do that they’re not set up to have communication that way.

Jason Dorsey: we’re also seeing with the generation, and this is sort of the last one i’ll leave you with before you jump into your next question.

Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is very frugal with their money, and this is probably the most shocking for many people, because when you think about the.

Jason Dorsey: 19 or 22 year old or 15 year old you think Oh well, they’re out there just sort of blowing their money, whatever they are and they’re spending it and it’s completely the opposite.

Jason Dorsey: This generation was shaped to the great recession and now they’ve seen the economic impact of Kobe and as a result of that what our research shows consistently we do so many of these studies.

Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is much more conservative or practical with their money in fact so important for all your leaders listening.

Jason Dorsey: When gen Z is considering an employer, they want to know the employer is stable well that’s a big difference than a typical teenager early 20 something.

Jason Dorsey: They want to know that employers going to offer them benefits what nine year olds that are what are your benefits well now that’s a common thing.

Jason Dorsey: They want to know that there’s retirement matching These are all things we proved out in our studies and go into detail in the book.

Jason Dorsey: But the key here is what they’re looking for doesn’t match their life stage but it actually does if you experience the events that they experience so they’re very different generation and the key is they’re not millennials to point out.

Jason Dorsey: And what I think is so important about this conversation for the type of work you do.

Jason Dorsey: Is many of the leaders who follow you and learn from you and trust you as a developer and leadership skills.

Jason Dorsey: You know, they were caught flat footed around millennials.

Jason Dorsey: millennials they thought would grow out of it, they didn’t create all kinds of change and now, people are catching up and certainly trying to navigate that the flip side is leaders are now going we don’t want that to happen again.

Jason Dorsey: So So what do we need to know about gen Z and that’s really exciting, because we think this generation bring so much to the workforce, just like every generation does and.

Jason Dorsey: This is a really critical time because right now gen Z is the fastest growing generation on a percentage basis.

Jason Dorsey: And they’re the most consistent generation around the world, so we look at it fastest growing generation, the workforce on a percentage basis.

Jason Dorsey: And the most consistent not exactly the same, but most consistent around the world, so getting gen Z right creates tremendous opportunity for leaders today.

David Horsager: So those opportunities, you know we’ve got up there, the social causes technology frugal is he you know it’s kind of.

David Horsager: easy to say okay everybody every leader now you have to give the best benefit plan give give give give give but what can we do like what are the opportunities, how do we, how do we motivate, how do we create the a place where every generation and gen Z can be their best.

Jason Dorsey: yeah and the way you sort of asked us that question I think it’s really the secret.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not about catering to anyone generation, you know I speak for clients all over the world, now that you and I both live in this virtual presentation.

Jason Dorsey: And everybody wants to know how do we adapt to gen Z or how do we adapt to millennials or whomever.

Jason Dorsey: And it’s important that we think about adapting to them, but we have to do it in the context of not turning off the other generations.

Jason Dorsey: Because we still need all of them they’re all incredibly important.

Jason Dorsey: So when we think about strategies and tactics it’s, what are the things that you can add or do differently generally that are low cost or no cost.

Jason Dorsey: That not only bring out the best to gen Z but also the other generations go wow this is pretty great I want that too.

Jason Dorsey: So as an example that text message onboarding it turns out that lots of generations, like the idea that they can go to that whole process from their mobile device wherever they are, at any time.

Jason Dorsey: Nobody would have guessed that but it turns out.

Jason Dorsey: Trends right now generational trends start with the youngest and interrupting up to the oldest it’s one of our big discoveries, so we think about what gen Z which you can do with gen Z now, these are all things that we see work with other generations to.

Jason Dorsey: The first when it comes to building trust and engagement and alignment, we find that frequency of communication is very important now, I want to.

Jason Dorsey: You know caveat this because there are certain people that are listening right now that just rolled their eyes and said oh great now we got a baby these people like whatever that is absolutely not the case, what we’re actually see as the opposite.

Jason Dorsey: Its frequency of information not amount of information, this is not a two hour annual review right Nobody wants that.

Jason Dorsey: What we find with gen Z is they want quick hit feedback that could be 10 1520 seconds a week, think of it like a text message or.

Jason Dorsey: Something a message on slack or an instant message or a quick video you film we find is the frequency is important, particularly in the time this pandemic in a hybrid work environment.

Jason Dorsey: If they don’t feel you’re talking to them, then they think they’re going to lose their job, and this is really key other generations, they didn’t think that way they thought hey if my boss isn’t talking to me we’re all good.

Jason Dorsey: But gen Z things the opposite, which is if i’m not hearing from my boss i’m probably going to get fired.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s an important distinction to make and then be able to think about that frequency that scales one message to all of them, or just as well as a message, one on one, so the key here is.

Jason Dorsey: Frequency is very, very important for them feeling engage the second thing that we hear, which again ties into your pillars that you do so well.

Jason Dorsey: As gen Z wants to be heard now interestingly it’s not the gen Z expects you to do what they say now, this is the key distinction.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not that they think that they show up and they have all the answers that’s not true, in fact, we see the opposite with gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: But gen Z wants to engage in the conversation be heard be part of that now again, you can use technology to do that, you can do morning huddles you can just make it safe and easy for them to ask a question.

Jason Dorsey: But jen’s ease entering the workforce at an older age than any previous generations in the workforce today.

Jason Dorsey: So they may be 19 or 20 but they may have no experience so they’re going to have questions.

Jason Dorsey: They want to make sure they know to ask, they want to know that they can be heard, so making it easy for them to do an outreach at safe and get a question, so they can say focus.

Jason Dorsey: works like match again everything I just shared cost 01 of my favorite ones, though, is right now we’re seeing which nz is to provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.

Jason Dorsey: And this is where you know, in your line of work sort of trust and communication really come together.

Jason Dorsey: And I see this all the time, because you know me I.

Jason Dorsey: Work with all these executives a sermon lots of corporate boards i’m really passionate about helping senior execs create the right culture and then making sure that cultures represented.

Jason Dorsey: From from the bottom up, rather than just the top down, which is what people try to do, and then it, you know doesn’t necessarily work, we want to make sure that people are on board.

Jason Dorsey: And one of the things we find is that communication varies and interpretation by generation.

Jason Dorsey: So if I said to somebody Okay, make sure you show for a meeting on time.

Jason Dorsey: Well, that can mean something very different based on generation, even though the person who said it was super clear or Jason make sure you deliver great customer service well if you’re in one generation great customer service might be chat.

Jason Dorsey: It might be a text message with an emoji and somebody else says will pick up the phone and call me or we need to meet face to face socially distance.

Jason Dorsey: So what we find is with gen Z as you create videos of the examples of what you want, so if you want customer service to look a certain way.

Jason Dorsey: make a 15 second video there’s tons of different programs that can do that, right now, that will enable you to message that out now before again people roll their eyes and go gosh Jason now we’ve got to coddle these people that is totally bunk.

Jason Dorsey: What i’m saying is when you talk with a different generation and you say something you think is really clear to you.

Jason Dorsey: they’re putting it through a filter and what comes out the other side may be may not be what you want, particularly true right now in a hybrid environment.

Jason Dorsey: And, as a result both of you are disappointed So what do you do, you make a video you make it one time, save you hours and hours and tons of times they learn faster and here’s the key that leaders want.

Jason Dorsey: You can then hold them accountable because you’ve shown them what success looks like.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s that’s magic right, I mean it just it’s such a big deal to give people a roadmap for success so they can then make sure and deliver on that.

Jason Dorsey: And then sort of the last piece, which is really into the weeds but I know you’re in the details which I love is that we’re finding that gen Z is coming of age, expecting faster access to the money they earn.

Jason Dorsey: This is one of those that I think is going to ripple up to the other generations again so it’s called earned wage access we talked about this a lot in this economy book gen Z is going to come of age.

Jason Dorsey: Having always been able to have access to the money they earned every day there’s all these different services that do it, we talked about in the book.

Jason Dorsey: And so, if your first job was working at a restaurant or in retail or anywhere, maybe you’re doing some gig economy job you finish that day you get a message and it says Jason.

Jason Dorsey: I saw you earn $54 and 12 cents day, would you like half your money astronaut, and you click yes, the money shows up instantly your account with no fees all the sudden.

Jason Dorsey: you’ve only known, the ability to get paid every day, when you need it.

Jason Dorsey: And I think that’s a big systemic shift that has huge implications across all the other generations, because what we find in our research is other generations ago well i’d like that, too, and I need it, that sounds great there’s no downside there’s no cost.

Jason Dorsey: Why waiting two weeks so it’s these sorts of things that gen Z will only know and then bring into the workforce and infuse themselves, which is incredibly exciting if you’re a generational researcher like we are.

David Horsager: love it so there’s two things i’m thinking about right now, you said something a little bit ago you know about culture and we talk a whole lot about driving high performing cultures on trust and in essence.

David Horsager: A lot of what you’re doing is that.

David Horsager: So how you said something about differentiating between top down and bottom up, how do you do it differently to create culture from the bottom and the top.

Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, so what we find is that when we work with senior execs and you know that’s typically who i’m working with.

Jason Dorsey: is getting them to sort of bring to life the culture for some of them it’s really easy for lots of them it’s really hard.

Jason Dorsey: Maybe the culture was established before they got there, maybe somebody picked whatever the statement was.

Jason Dorsey: Like there’s something there that seems to be a little bit of a divider a disconnect between who they are, and how they’re leading and what the company is viewed at in terms of culture that sort of DNA.

Jason Dorsey: So we work with them to really get clear on that process now you’re much better at that than I am i’m just bringing you a generational lens to it.

Jason Dorsey: But once we get them to get clear on what that is right that sort of culture piece of work, the trick then becomes, how do you message it in a way that other generations, all the way down to the front lines absolutely believe.

Jason Dorsey: That is sort of the secret that’s the magic and that’s what we’re really good at because it’s the messaging if you want to think about it’s like a.

Jason Dorsey: filter or we’re trying to help a message we know we want the message to be, but we know different generations are going to hear differently, even by the way, geographies genders, we go through a whole bunch of different things that we study, so one of the ways for example yeah.

David Horsager: Give us a quick example like just something quick like this generation takes it like this, this like this, this like this because we’ve got all these generations, the workplace, what would be an example, so we understand it.

Jason Dorsey: yeah so an example, might be, you know our culture is all about professionalism well.

Jason Dorsey: What in the world, does that mean, this is a sort of thing I hear all the time right.

Jason Dorsey: So if you take professionalism and you give two or three examples that each generation will understand, then all the sudden they go I got it right.

Jason Dorsey: Or if you write it in a way that doesn’t sound fake that’s better, but what we like to do is, we like to get them to put it into video, because what we know is video is the number one way to educate gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: Also, by the way, truth is millennials so putting it in a written word and posting it somewhere, making it your backdrop, whatever that doesn’t work.

Jason Dorsey: They want to see the video they want to see it come to life, and they want to see an embodied and so when we go all the way down to the front lines.

Jason Dorsey: What we find out is this, and this is really key for our type of culture work, which is when you go to the front lines, the most important and influential person of culture.

Jason Dorsey: Is what we call the local leader, and that is the person that the front lines interact with on a weekly basis and here’s basically how it looks a simple example.

Jason Dorsey: You probably saw all these executives say during this time of Kobe we’re all in this together.

Jason Dorsey: And if you’re a follower of our work, which I know you are I came out really hard against that and said that is totally not true.

Jason Dorsey: People say that it’s well intentioned if they mean well, but our research shows conclusively look we’ve done all these studies it’s all for free on our website.

Jason Dorsey: That every generation is having a different experience in the time of covert.

Jason Dorsey: At the same time geographies are different social economics are different when we go through a whole list so yes we’re all experiencing this at the same time, but the experience is very different.

Jason Dorsey: So, then, the executives go and they message out we’re going to do this we’re going to do that, we got you covered well, the first thing that local leader does has to do.

Jason Dorsey: Is they have to make sure that they truly believe and repeat what the executive just said.

Jason Dorsey: Because this is what we know happens, we see it all the time in our work that people on the front lines go to their boss, and say I saw it, you know Bob or Sally or you know, whoever said in their video they sent out to everybody, is it true.

Jason Dorsey: And that is the moment where the culture becomes real on the front lines.

Jason Dorsey: If those frontline managers do not ECHO it it’s not believed it doesn’t stick it’s just a talking head and we might as well just move on and so for me.

Jason Dorsey: The greatest way to test the culture is to talk to the frontline leaders and see if they are the backstop for what they believe to be true around that culture that’s what makes all the difference in the world.

David Horsager: let’s take a little pivot here because I think you would you would have some experience with this even though it’s not so much a generational issue but it surely is that today issue and that is.

David Horsager: You know, talking about accountability and leadership of all these different generations a big challenge today is remote and virtual.

David Horsager: How do we create.

David Horsager: accountability, how do and how do we create healthy culture and how do we, how do we do some of these things, how to in our case, how do we build trust.


Jason Dorsey: Yes, so yeah we’ve done a number of studies on this, we have lots of clients, because our sort of retainer work is exactly addressing this.

Jason Dorsey: And so I think it’s worth sharing that 99% of all companies were not prepared to end up in a remote or hybrid world.

Jason Dorsey: So anybody listening who’s going, yes, I totally get it you’re not alone, this is a completely normal, this is an experience of companies all sizes all levels are having.

Jason Dorsey: Now they have different levels of resources, different you know geographic breakdown certain things like that.

Jason Dorsey: and, frankly, in some of our clients are not really experiencing this as much if you work in a restaurant you’re still showing up if you’re a retail grocery are still showing up there’s elements that have become hybrid.

Jason Dorsey: But for many companies, this was a now a fully remote or at least mostly remote experience well, what do we know drives in your case trust, but also in our case alignment and performance and accountability.

Jason Dorsey: And I think the trick with accountability is accountability has a bad reputation, because often managers and leaders use it as a gotcha.

Jason Dorsey: Right it’s punitive high cost you, and when you come at it from that standpoint versus we all have a role to play in order to be successful.

Jason Dorsey: You automatically put people on the defensive and they go whoa I don’t want accountability, because what drives accountability.

Jason Dorsey: You know what’s the Court transparency if you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability, so now what we’ve seen is this big wide swath of.

Jason Dorsey: I want to know everything you’re doing there’s technology out there, right now, today, that takes pictures of employees every 30 seconds or every minute or whatever.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s supposed to you know build trust and create transparency and they say hey we know you’re picking your nose it’s Okay, we all pick our nose, we all want to photo of that but there’s that there’s the other extreme, which is.

Jason Dorsey: We just trust you to get it done we don’t care how you did it other than the fact that you did it based on the requirements we have We trust you and you’re going to deliver it to us.

Jason Dorsey: Now, the problem is somewhere in the middle right, so what we see is daily huddles and daily check ins are incredibly important primarily with small groups.

Jason Dorsey: there’s this idea that we need to have these daily check ins or meetings with large groups, once you get above about 20 people can slide into the background, I would even argue 10 but So the idea, there is.

Jason Dorsey: whenever you do, on your daily group to kick that off like in our case at our company, here we do one every morning it’s from 830 to 8:35am.

Jason Dorsey: And during that period of time we all get aligned, we all know what we’re going to do we let people know in our case, the one thing we’re going to absolutely get done today.

Jason Dorsey: And then they do another one later in the day that i’m, not even a part of because it’s a smaller group, and so the idea here is how do we create that cadence of alignment and credibility so accountability isn’t a gotcha.

Jason Dorsey: and part of that is, you have to let people raise their hand if they’re stuck on the way.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s important, especially in a hybrid nobody wants to be like oh i’m the weak link so, then what happens.

Jason Dorsey: They don’t raise their hand all of a sudden, you miss a deadline and you had no insight into it, so you want to make it safe for people to ask for help, not for them to do your job for you.

Jason Dorsey: But for them to be able to ask for help and say hey i’m stuck here can you take something off me, so I can really work on this today, so making it safe to raise their hand.

Jason Dorsey: And then I think you have to have spacing of those goals in such a way that people know their soul line.

Jason Dorsey: So, in most cases that’s a weekly goal or bi weekly I think monthly is way too on people can get lost in the weeds they can get sidetracked and so forth, and then, of course, those sheep flock to wherever they need to go.

Jason Dorsey: But the key thing here when we think about that accountability piece is you don’t want people to feel like they’re on an island and you’re just trying to catch them doing something wrong.

Jason Dorsey: It absolutely crushes culture it crushes performance.

Jason Dorsey: But you don’t want to micromanage so you want to make it safe for them to do the check ins let you know that they’re aligned.

Jason Dorsey: And then, if you use things like slack there’s tons of these different workforce collaboration.

Jason Dorsey: You know there’s ways to do this that’s also by a tech we just did a big study that looked at workforce collaboration in the US Europe and other countries.

Jason Dorsey: And what we found is, and this, I think, is really important people didn’t need the latest technology.

Jason Dorsey: This is very important, they did not need the latest technology in fact they didn’t really want it, they just wanted enough technology to be effective.

Jason Dorsey: And I think you have people out there all around the world right now going how am I am more effective.

Jason Dorsey: In terms of being able to deliver results, give me at least the minimum technology, I need to be successful, help me to create alignment, let me raise my hand as I go.

Jason Dorsey: And if something’s not working, let me be able to take some time to fix it or is that and say hey Can you help me, so I I think hybrid absolutely works.

Jason Dorsey: And we’ve proven that now there’s tons of companies, in fact, many companies, I work with like Jason we may never go back.

Jason Dorsey: And so there’s a whole hot debate there, we could spend an hour on but fundamentally, the idea is that we’ve got to make.

Jason Dorsey: hybrid work, and I think the way that people come at it and you know i’ve talked about this before a lot of people come at this and they go, you know this is terrible or it’s uncomfortable I don’t like it or people are in their pajamas or whatever.

Jason Dorsey: But the reality is I, like the other approach, which is how do we make this the best work experience, while this is experienced for having.

Jason Dorsey: Do we change it in a year people go back to sure that’s what works for you, but instead of approaching this as that’s.

Jason Dorsey: Terrible or it’s you know all these things are I don’t like it because I don’t like to be on video.

Jason Dorsey: Like just go the opposite, how do we make this as amazing as possible, so our employees are fired up so i’m leading and delivering results in a way that everybody’s coming with, and that means turn off the video and turn off the video.

Jason Dorsey: But focus on the outcome with them and you’ll see that people really rise to the challenge in this hybrid time.

David Horsager: I love it I love the idea, a friend of mine CEO of a great MED tech company said.

David Horsager: You know, in the in the war college he learned, he said something that has been helping him, he says that book of when I first went in the war college in the 1980s, they taught this.

David Horsager: When you find when you have volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity don’t spend all your time on things you can’t control but think of what can I control number one and number two what should I do first.

David Horsager: And that’s this time, what can you do hey, this is the environment we’re in quit talking about when it’s gonna come back or this or that but what can we do right now in this environment, and when you do that there’s a whole lot more than you thought at first right.

Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, and I want to say to that point, you know as you start to learn from your friend there is that you know.

Jason Dorsey: there’s a perception out there, that you got to be young to do well in this hybrid environment, but that is totally absolutely bunk.

Jason Dorsey: I work with baby boomers all the time, who frankly are better technology than I am, and if you’ve ever heard me speak at all these events always talk about boomers invented the technology.

Jason Dorsey: So that I think we have to step back from that’s where preconceived notion that just be a certain age to do well in this environment.

Jason Dorsey: Like we’re all learning in this period of time and let’s go and let people shine and do their best whether you’re 18 or 80 you can absolutely make it work it’s just choosing to him letting people give them the space to be able to rise to that challenge that I think is incredibly exciting.

David Horsager: Absolutely, you know it’s the trusted leader show, so we have a few quickfire quick lightning round questions for you, before we get there, though.

David Horsager: Where can we find out more about you will put all this in the show notes at trusted leader show.com trusted leader show.com we’ll put it all there where can we find the book where can we find out about what you’re doing at the Center for generational kinetics.

Jason Dorsey: yeah absolutely thanks for those interested in our research we do put lots of it on our website for free, and so you can just go to jenn HQ je n HQ COM.

Jason Dorsey: And click on state of gen Z and you can download the report see all the different studies we have multiple studies going, you can get them all, all totally for free, we just want to separate myth from truth.

Jason Dorsey: If you want information about me speaking or the type of advisory board work I do you can go to my own website, which is Jason dorsey calm J s O n D R es.

Jason Dorsey: calm and if you’re interested in the book it’s called Z economy how gen Z will change the future of business and what to do about it Dave actually helped me with the book title so shout out to Dave on that one.

David Horsager: I remember it.


Jason Dorsey: It was awesome day and you can get it on Amazon or wherever you choose to buy your books or listen to them and, yes, I actually did the audiobook.

Jason Dorsey: So you can listen to that too, which was really fun and way harder than it sounds so and the big news is on that I just want to share.

Jason Dorsey: I don’t know if people can see the video of they’ll be able to but behind me right here.

Jason Dorsey: Is our new copy from South Korea, we just got our first South Korean addition we’ve got Ukraine coming out and Brazil and Turkey and several other so.

Jason Dorsey: it’s been incredible to see how people have connected with the book and put it to you so thanks for letting me share all those days, I really appreciate.

David Horsager: it’s it’s just a wealth of information, this year Center is the absolute.

David Horsager: place to find the leading content and research and insights on generations, how they work together how to motivate inspire and create really high trust cultures.

David Horsager: And from a generational standpoint so it’s so excited to have you on we got some quickfire questions, right here a sentence or two each let’s get started.

David Horsager: we’re going to get personal here first you’re a you’re a leader, that I trust your friend that I trust, but let’s just take your leadership, because you’ve been leading a big team you’ve let it several companies you’re on several boards.

David Horsager: You lead, even in your home so what’s what you know what kind of habits personally a habits or routines he talked about you know, to lead others you gotta lead yourself it what’s something you do to lead yourself.

Jason Dorsey: I would say, the best thing I do as a habit is I journal almost every day, and I find that that taken that, in my case happens to be about half an hour to reflect on the day.

Jason Dorsey: always gives me a sense of clarity and often realizations that I just don’t get on you know zoom meetings all day and everything else, so that that sort of touched on, for me, is is journaling and i’ve done it since I was 18 years old, when I wrote my first book so.

David Horsager: it’s unbelievable how many great leaders have said that over the past several shows, as the routine it’s just amazing what what’s a favorite book or resource right now.

Jason Dorsey: i’m favorite book or resource right now candidate I got an advanced copy of yours, and I really loved it so thanks for that letting me read that that was super inspiring I would say.

Jason Dorsey: outside of that.

Jason Dorsey: Right now i’ve just been reading a bunch of sort of perspective books i’m reading the alchemist for probably the 58th time and I find that every time I read it it’s I still get something new, out of it so yeah I have a habit of reading books, I like.

Jason Dorsey: Because I find a different life stages, they bring something new and that’s certainly one of those and Center for me.

David Horsager: And all that will be in the show notes and great advice so what’s what’s something you’re learning right now just life personal, professional.

Jason Dorsey: yeah I would say the biggest thing i’m learning, which probably sounds really cheesy to others, but I think you may appreciate i’m learning how to be home.

Jason Dorsey: And so, for those not familiar with my speaking or work i’ve traveled more than 200 days a year often 250 or more, since I turned 19 years old and wrote my first book and so a month into the pandemic I had been home more.

Jason Dorsey: In a calendar year than I had since I was 19 and my wife and I we’ve been married now for almost 15 years.

Jason Dorsey: And we have a nine year old daughter named Ryan who’s loved my life and lots of about her in the book and so.

Jason Dorsey: Being home and learning how to be present at home with them is something i’ve really worked on, you know Denise and I, my wife, have always had a really great relationship.

Jason Dorsey: Ryan, I have really worked at that, and now it’s just been magical you know I.

Jason Dorsey: Take her to school and the weeks that she goes in person, which is every other week and then we have breakfast together and I cook dinner and just.

Jason Dorsey: You know, being present at home versus it being an event to be home it’s just been really magical for me and and it’s taken a while like for everybody.

Jason Dorsey: But, but it has been the greatest gift that’s come out of this sort of unintended consequence and I love it, and now that we’re doing all this retainer and advisory work where I get to stay home i’m i’m digging it and I think i’m going to do a lot more of a going for it so.

David Horsager: Absolutely.

David Horsager: Do you have a favorite APP or gadget right now.

Jason Dorsey: A favorite APP or gadget well, I would say my favorite thing right now is I just got a new iPhone and.

Jason Dorsey: And I absolutely love it and I would say my favorite gadget if somebody gets it is icloud I just love the idea that we can do so much of our work in the cloud right now.

Jason Dorsey: And the more that i’ve embraced that in our team has, I feel that the higher performing we are and we’re able to just.

Jason Dorsey: Not just do things and have them fall away on a computer, but really you know be accessible and searchable and I think for me what’s happened.

Jason Dorsey: Is it’s enabled me to keep better track of learning as I go and that’s whether that’s notes or some of these others I just I find it really exciting.

Jason Dorsey: to feel almost liberated from a physical device and and that’s something that i’ve really embraced and love so yeah really sort of leaning into that one because it’s it does just change so many things.

David Horsager: Absolutely favorite piece of advice.

Jason Dorsey: I think my favorite piece of advice, at least.

Jason Dorsey: That at least that’s been my favorite piece of advice, since I was 18 because that’s what I used to assign it in the books.

Jason Dorsey: Was that anything is possible if you believe in yourself, and I know that’s certainly been something that i’ve had to live, you know I started out wrote my first book slept on the floor for quite a long time nobody believed to me, in fact, that was designed and so.

Jason Dorsey: Right well I I slept in it on the floor of a garage apartment and many couches along the way, but yeah just trying to.

Jason Dorsey: Not homeless in the sense of homeless, but.

Jason Dorsey: You know, definitely started on the floor with me and a bunch of books and cut off, and it was the best thing that ever happened but, like any.

Jason Dorsey: Any journey, such as that there’s definitely those moments of doubt, and all those sort of things and going back to that you know anything is possible if you believe in yourself, you know I.

Jason Dorsey: Remember dreaming about being on a TV show and ended up on the.

Jason Dorsey: Show over and over again, or getting to travel outside the US that was a big deal for me and then getting go speak and all these countries around the world and.

Jason Dorsey: You know, writing a book this bestseller and then having a best selling book and all these sorts of things, I can still go back to those journal pages and really just believing in that even when when nobody else did, and I just think that has a powerful impact on people’s.

Jason Dorsey: Lives so.

David Horsager: One link one thing left for Jason dorsey in this life one thing lyft Jason wants to do.

Jason Dorsey: For me, I would like to live with my wife outside the US we really not right now, of course, but.

Jason Dorsey: At some point Denise and I would really love to spend some time living abroad we’ve traveled a lot internationally.

Jason Dorsey: You know, as I know you have and we really want to experience living somewhere outside the US for a little while and so we’re excited to try that out when the time is right, I have no idea if that’s been 10 years or whatever, but that’s something we’re really fired up to get to do.

Jason Dorsey: Great.

David Horsager: All these ideas, thoughts and recommendations will be at trusted leader show calm in the notes it’s the time for the last question, we ask it every time, this is a trusted leader show leader you trust and why.

Jason Dorsey: You know funny enough, I would say the LEADER I trust, and why is Denise my wife.

Jason Dorsey: And I know you made the joke about I lead at the House, I certainly try but Denise is is just shown her resilience and stability and integrity.

Jason Dorsey: Over and over and over again, and all kinds of situations she’s had to deal with in life, as you know, she was.

Jason Dorsey: You know, a teacher and then a principal and very difficult schools and then worked in lots of nonprofits and then founded for profit company and then you know continues to grow and.

Jason Dorsey: I just really love the fact that she can bring a sense of calmness and certainty and inclusion, which I think is really powerful for leaders to do right now and and it’s just you know.

Jason Dorsey: I don’t have some of the skills that she has, I mean she really has a very specific way of leading.

Jason Dorsey: In fact, she leads to Austin right now in this, as you can imagine, is a very difficult time to lead an organization like that meets in person, when you can.

Jason Dorsey: And just seeing how she navigates that is really an example to me, of how I want to continue to grow as a leader so she would be the one yeah sorry I didn’t have a big one, but that’s the one of the biggest impact on my life.

David Horsager: So Jason is you know he is the expert on generations, but he also is genuinely a.

David Horsager: dear friend you’ll notice in the new book coming out very soon trusted leader show he excuse me trusted leader book cut that out right he’s gonna clip that.

David Horsager: you’ll notice in the new book trusted leader that Jason is one of the very few people that the book is dedicated to because I really do trust them i’m grateful for you Jason i’m grateful for how you’ve made me better and.

David Horsager: So I just want to thank you for sure you and state and wisdom today, and thanks for being my friend.

Jason Dorsey: wow well that’s a that’s heavy what you just shared, thank you for that i’m very grateful, I had no idea that I was in your book, so thank you and the dedication is.

Jason Dorsey: wow Thank you Dave that means so much to me, so thank you and i’m grateful for you and all that you’ve taught me so thank you so much for for living by example, everything that you talked about which I think is very rare and a real gift to the world so thanks for having me on today.

David Horsager: Thank you, with that it’s been the trusted leader show, and until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 12: Michele Freeman on How to Lead During a Crisis

In this episode, David sits down with Michele Freeman, former Chief of the Department of Public Safety for the City of Las Vegas, to discuss how to lead during a crisis.

Michele’s Bio:
Michele Freeman began her law enforcement career in 1992 with the City of Las Vegas Department of Public Safety and retired in 2020, after serving as the Chief for almost ten years. Under her leadership, the department advanced through progressive 21st-century strategies essential in contemporary law enforcement. She is a member of several organizations including, the American Jail Association, International Chiefs of Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation National Academy and sits on the boards for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, and Trauma Intervention Program where she continues to devote her life work to enhancing others, especially in the mental health arena.

Michele’s Links:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MFreemanvegas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-freeman-8933b845/

Key Quotes:
1. “Be where our feet are.”
2. “Nobody is more valuable than another person.”
3. “You have to think about the human side.”
4. “The people are what matter.”
5. “Without people, you don’t have anything.”
6. “If you have the choice to be right or kind: choose kind.”
7. “There is no need that you have to be right all the time.”
8. “Always be true to yourself.”
9. “Lead with love.”
10. “The foundation of every relationship is trust.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Positive Quotes for Everyday” by Patricia Lorenz: https://amzn.to/3dI2tMZ

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer and I have a special guest today, she has been in law enforcement for 28 and a half years, she was police chief at the city of Las Vegas i’ll do that formally she was the.

David Horsager: Chief of the department of public safety at the city of Las Vegas she has just done an amazing job there, and she was trusted certified we’ve been able to do some fun.

David Horsager: exciting work in the city of Las Vegas i’m grateful for that i’m grateful because you know she really reflects this work around trust, as we say on stage and off at work at home and and she’s become a friend, so please welcome just retired chief Michelle freeman how you doing today.

Michele Freeman: i’m great Thank you so much for having me it’s such a pleasure to be here and I really appreciate that welcome.

Michele Freeman: And yes, i’m glad we become friends you’ve been very inspirational for me and it’s been just a wonderful time getting to know you and learning through you and learning and living by actually the eight pillars of trust, quite honestly, well.

David Horsager: I, I am grateful and i’m grateful for everything that’s happened, the city Las Vegas and just the partnership there, and especially you know getting to see you and and there’s just what a great great great family, you have out there of people.

Michele Freeman: Right, since I mean you are up.

David Horsager: In the fourth 28 and a half years so let’s just give us a background, I know you went to the FBI academy and all these things but give our listeners we’ve got leaders from.

David Horsager: CEOs to presidents of countries and companies and sports teams listening and you know have people around the world, but give us the.

David Horsager: Just what’s that what’s the background of Michelle freeman and your leadership and from grown up a little bit to the FBI academy and on to 28 and a half years wow.

Michele Freeman: yeah so thank you so let’s see i’ll start in New York, because that’s where i’m originally from so I left New York to come to Las Vegas.

Michele Freeman: I am in internally I love New York, and I was a big new yorker I came to the Las Vegas and it was a bit of a culture shock, I have to say.

Michele Freeman: And now that I reflect back it’s really funny because I loved the food back there right, so it was really hard for me, you know a good piece of pizza is very important right, we want a good piece of pizza and so.

Michele Freeman: slice of pizza and so that was really hard and then coming here back when I did, which was in.

Michele Freeman: 89 I came out to Vegas and it was a culture shock, because it seems very slow to me back then so here, I am very fast paced New York, and then we come over to.

Michele Freeman: Vegas and I go into the store and I go into the stores and i’m sitting there, and people are talking and i’m like just buy your products and let’s go.

Michele Freeman: Little did I know right, because this is before.

Michele Freeman: I come out here before my 21st birthday and so i’ve been out here a long time, and so little did I know that building trust was just that.

Michele Freeman: was being and enjoying where you’re at being where your feet are and enjoying the moment and conversing with people so that’s where I kind of started and I came to Vegas and I remember a friend of mine said to me.

Michele Freeman: Oh, you know you’re gonna wait until you see it, because you know new york’s cold it snows it has seasons.

Michele Freeman: latency you see the first winter you’re going to be incredibly just like beside yourself because normally.

Michele Freeman: we’re all bundled up, but in New York right snow blizzard that kind of thing no so in Vegas she says we’re going to go on campus because I came out here to finish school.

Michele Freeman: My undergrad at you know they were going to be on campus and you’re going to see people that are gonna be all bundled up scarves and hats and mittens on warm jackets so sure enough, the very first ones are i’m here.

Michele Freeman: I see all this i’m in a sweat shirt and shorts right little winter, it was December I remember this everyone else bundled up and jackets and well you know cozy and then the very next winter it wasn’t very funny anymore, I was the bundled up one right.

Michele Freeman: So I quickly convert it to the Las Vegas lifestyle I learned how to say Nevada correctly, so I now love and appreciate my culture that I have here so with That being said.

Michele Freeman: let’s see I started in the department of public safety and.

Michele Freeman: As a corrections officer and then I moved through the ranks and like you said I landed in in the position as chief.

Michele Freeman: appreciate it, the responsibilities that would give them with me they’re appreciated everything that I was given love the city of Las Vegas and everything that I got.

Michele Freeman: From there building the relationships cultivating and maintaining them throughout the years and it was really hard to depart right so.

Michele Freeman: So that’s where i’m at now, you mentioned the FBI National Academy what an offer that I couldn’t refuse it was such an opportunity that I never was expecting.

Michele Freeman: You know, not very many people get to go to the National Academy made friends internationally so there’s over 200 people that got to go to quantico for over two and a half years.

Michele Freeman: And you had like it was kind of like a call it a three prong you had academia, you had to take actual college credits very strict schedule and then you also had your.

Michele Freeman: Your physical part, so you had to do your physical challenges.

Michele Freeman: And then you had your networking, which was by far, of course, the most important piece because it’s all about building trusting relationships right and that’s where I really was able to cultivate so many more relationships around the world.

David Horsager: hey you know after that now just to we’re going to go back to being chief and some of the challenges, you had the the shooting of 2017 you’ve had some big challenges you’ve had to be a part of lead in.

David Horsager: Racial unrest right before you retired and how you’ve had to step up as a leader, and when I think Michelle freeman I think of this.

David Horsager: wonderfully fast paced loving, I think you go by this quarter, I remember that lead with love, I remember, you said that to me lead with love right, but this loving kind but also this kind of.

David Horsager: spit fire ready to step up for the challenge that’s needed to love all and deal with all these big challenges that we have before we get there.

David Horsager: You know jump ahead because you’re learning today you’re jumping ready, you said you’re retiring and your husband’s playing golf and and.

David Horsager: Having a whole lot of fun and you jump right into a doctorate in Michelle style that can’t slow down tell us just a glimpse about that, and what you’re learning now and what do you hope with that.

Michele Freeman: yeah absolutely so.

Michele Freeman: I have been on this path, this really great journey and it’s very interesting, so my doctoral degree, will be in public policy.

Michele Freeman: it’s a very cool program it’s not a typical degree with it she’s a PhD, this is a inaugural program that I got to enter in with my very first cohort it started three years ago i’m going to be graduating hopefully in May.

Michele Freeman: We cross our fingers on that i’m almost there, but the light is blurry but it’s there you know, at the end of the tunnel.

Michele Freeman: And it’s in public policy which is very interesting because that’s not where I necessarily ever thought i’d be I actually had started going back for a psychology psychiatry and.

Michele Freeman: And, and you know life changes it takes a different path, sometimes, but why i’m doing this and why it’s so important, is my focus is.

Michele Freeman: Helping officers and it’s educating and assessing and preventing Suicide Prevention for law enforcement officers and i’ve been trying to help change the culture for over two decades with.

Michele Freeman: Recognizing and making a culture that’s that’s okay to not be okay for mental and emotional health to be just as good as physical health or just as important, excuse me as physical health.

Michele Freeman: Because, all of them bleed together right it’s and and they reflect one another and it’s so important to speak that, and you know, here we are, as police officers.

Michele Freeman: Law enforcement officers and we’re supposed to be the ones taking care and helping others so it’s very hard for us to be the ones to recognize that we need assistance and so culturally it’s just not something we.

Michele Freeman: entered into that’s not how you entered into it, especially when I began, you know so many years ago in 1992 so my goal is to help change the culture help with some.

Michele Freeman: With a policy change and to continue working on resiliency working on self care working on how can we be okay with not being Okay, and knowing that we’re all going to fall down at some point.

Michele Freeman: How do we get back up, how do we practice so that we can get back up quicker and how do we say you know what I need help.

David Horsager: How do you, you know this is interesting because a lot of our leaders are listening and they’re going 100 miles an hour there.

David Horsager: Some of them have focused so much on their role, their work, their mission they’ve lost their home their family and their health and that’s that’s certainly in policing that certainly in you know, a whole lot of other types of leadership that we whether it’s government or.

David Horsager: Corporate or even superintendents of schools, you know, so what what maybe let’s get real personal here, what have you done yeah.

David Horsager: I mean if people don’t see on the screen and they’re just listening to podcasts and not watching the video in front of me on screen, is a very vibrant health, the.

David Horsager: Lady that if you meet her, she is full of energy and just you know beautifully healthy, how do you stay healthy because physically emotionally i’m sure you had ups and downs, too, but what do you do personally to just keep.

David Horsager: Keep keep healthy when you get the weight of the world and the weight of all those challenges kind of in Vegas and leadership and all these things on you, what did you do and what do you continue to do, maybe routine wise even.

Michele Freeman: yeah no thanks for the question, and it is really important, because.

Michele Freeman: And I think I think what’s important and i’ll share me is, we all need to recognize that it’s not a one size size fits all right.

Michele Freeman: there’s a lot of things we can do that are really simple but it not may not always be easy, especially during times of like sadness depression.

Michele Freeman: or times, where you’re just feeling down or in a rut right because we’re all going to have something that’s going to happen in life.

Michele Freeman: there’s gonna be some kind of trauma or tragedy that will eventually happen, whether it’s small or large it doesn’t matter, sometimes it affects us right.

Michele Freeman: So one thing that I love to do on a daily basis is I love positive quotes i’m always searching for positivity i’m always looking for positive quotes.

Michele Freeman: So that’s something that’s inspiration, you know, for me, I love to listen to positive podcasts I definitely meditate.

Michele Freeman: So this was a hard one for me to get into because I was like I can’t meditate my brain is always moving i’m always on the go I can never just settle it.

Michele Freeman: And then, finally I realized you’re not supposed to settle it you’re supposed to understand and accept and work through it, so I got to learn what meditation was really about.

Michele Freeman: And now I really enjoy it don’t get me wrong, I don’t always have a good meditation sometimes it doesn’t work to my advantage.

Michele Freeman: But it just so helpful and i’m belly breathing just breathing because a lot of times what happens is especially in you know in high fast paced jobs, regardless whether it’s policing or something else right.

Michele Freeman: we’re on the go and we’re breathing up here, which is, which you know is your chest area.

Michele Freeman: Well that’s kind of like your fighter flight area, you want to be breathing from your down your belly breaths So if you actually breathe and you get a full deep breath into your belly.

Michele Freeman: that’s going to help regulate your breath and even just like sitting up in a structure that strong posture and then relax see if you’re you’re holding your shoulders just relax them.

Michele Freeman: You can feel such a difference in like when you stand like, with your shoulders up.

Michele Freeman: You can feel such a difference in the tension of your body so there’s so many little things that you know I practice, and you can do them like in a meeting.

Michele Freeman: You can literally ground yourself and just help relax because sometimes you know we’re in a meeting and I know i’ve even lead meetings that people are like oh.

Michele Freeman: When is she going to be done with this meeting i’m you know i’m ready to be done, and conversely i’ve also sat in meetings where i’m like.

Michele Freeman: I don’t think i’m listening anymore and realize I better get back into it, so I get back to let me just get back to where we’re at now be where our feet or be where our spaces in time grounds, your feet right and.

Michele Freeman: And just take a deep breath and that really helps a lot so Those are a few of the things that I like to do.

David Horsager: forever regular as far as both physical and mental, it seems, you know you brought those up as far as the you know even suicide rates and just other things do you have a certain physical routine like yourself to stay fit.

Michele Freeman: So so here’s where i’m going to give you a little bit of look like i’m going to go vulnerable here right.

Michele Freeman: So a few years back, I had a back injury, but I didn’t actually do something to it at that moment in time, but it for sure went out.

Michele Freeman: So that’s also another way that I had to stop and slow down and take that pause right pausing is so important, reflecting on what’s going on, and people are like oh it’s got to be from the duty belts right.

Michele Freeman: And I said no i’m not going to say it’s it’s from the duty bout do I think that the weight on the duty balance made a difference for sure, but so I think that that was the cause of my back injury.

Michele Freeman: Absolutely not, I was very active growing up, I played a lot of sports I did a lot of things I was always doing things.

Michele Freeman: And I think that’s part of my back injury was just from the normal wear and tear of life.

Michele Freeman: And you know me probably not doing some of the self care routines that I talked about and I needed to pay attention to my physical response to probably my mental and emotional.

Michele Freeman: Not doing so good right, so I went ahead and I had to go through some PT so right now unfortunately i’m not as active as i’ve used to be.

Michele Freeman: love to go to the gym love to lift I used to lift heavy I used to Cardio wasn’t My big friends, but I obviously would do Cardio because it was important for you know that part for your heart for your health.

Michele Freeman: And I love to be in the gym I played sports growing up love to do all those things now it’s a little different you know i’m a little older in life things changed my back injury, so what I do is I do a lot of more like.

Michele Freeman: relaxation i’ll do physical things i’ve learned in physical PT you know physical therapy.

Michele Freeman: And some of the mild yoga poses and I work with people today because I always know that I can learn more i’m a life learner for sure I always want to know how can I absorb more information right.

Michele Freeman: So what I do now is I love to take walks and instead of walking fast to get to nowhere quickly, I take gratitude walks I.

Michele Freeman: Am I go outside and I literally stop and smell the roses I literally takes, and this is a great thing to do, take a gratitude walk you go and you don’t have to leave your backyard your front yard your street you can go right there and.

Michele Freeman: Really notice things you’ve never noticed before oh I knew I had a tree in the front yard, but wow look at the leaves on it.

David Horsager: So what i’m hearing it for you a gratitude walk is a big part of it is noticing noticing and being thankful being grateful.

Michele Freeman: Absolutely extraordinarily important for me.

David Horsager: On the meditation tell me like what’s a good meditation look like, for you.

Michele Freeman: So I need help, I need a guided meditation I am not good to do my own meditation so I have to use either one of the.

Michele Freeman: Like I use one of the ones you can find so many online guided meditations if you’re into peloton you can even go on to peloton and use the APP there that have guided meditations on there.

Michele Freeman: there’s people locally, that I follow you can go online like I said and do them.

Michele Freeman: Actually deepak chopra and oprah do a guided meditation they do do guided meditations love there’s so there’s just different ones, and what resonates with you.

Michele Freeman: I think is different right, so you should try different ones and that’s that’s the thing for me when I started doing it.

Michele Freeman: I was like Oh, my goodness it’s not working, but I created a routine, especially when I hurt my back.

Michele Freeman: So I started doing it in my little yoga room I would do my physical therapy and then i’d go right into my guided meditation.

Michele Freeman: And I would do them and they didn’t always quote unquote work for me I first started doing them and then I ended up kind of listening to them in the car, but not actually meditating so I was just kind of getting used to it.

Michele Freeman: And now finally typically first thing I do in the morning before I even get out of it and last thing I do in the evening is a guided meditation.

Michele Freeman: And same thing I do my gratitude I reflect upon the day in the evening and quietly by myself in bed when I close my eyes my husband doesn’t even probably know this.

Michele Freeman: I think what, in the last 24 hours is the one thing, even if I had a bad day that I can find gratitude in and it might simply be you know what the water just felt good in my skin in the shower this morning.

David Horsager: So let’s jump from.

David Horsager: gratitude blocks and meditation to the fierceness of leadership when.

David Horsager: 61 people die in a shooting in 2017 or racial unrest what What did you do I mean what you, you were known for leading in the midst of some big challenges I heard.

David Horsager: and saw very positive things I think of.

David Horsager: Some things I heard but tell us about you know when you’re in bed when you have to lead them, and you have to bring calm to them.

David Horsager: And you are fast pace, and you are positive, but that is you’re also an empathize arm and there was just it was a tough time I remember listening to your That was the communications director said.

David Horsager: We you know people obviously were critical of us, because this terrible thing happened, but we handled it so much better our team we things actually went.

David Horsager: In many, many ways very well because of how we were set up and prepped and and whatnot but.

David Horsager: Some of that’s your leadership, what What did you do in those times i’m thinking of right now the the social unrest of last year and the you know that 2017 those stands out to me, and maybe there’s many more i’m sure in your 28 and a half years, but what do you how do you lead them.

Michele Freeman: So that’s that’s great questions so obviously last year it was very complicated because we had not only did we have the worldwide pandemic which we’ve never seen in our lives.

Michele Freeman: And then on the heels of that we get civil unrest right and and then.

Michele Freeman: You know just everyone’s personal own space that they’re in which is life and death.

Michele Freeman: So there’s an all in between right things happening and and children having to be homeschooled and what’s going to happen next, and.

Michele Freeman: people that are you know already ill and you’re taking care of them or trying to take care of your own illnesses So those are all really challenging times and you did mention one October, and that was a big Community thing for us um and it hit, of course, nationwide and.

Michele Freeman: Las Vegas is such a great place what’s great about it is people come from all over.

Michele Freeman: So people literally didn’t just feel it because or read about it because they were reading about it elsewhere, they were feeling it because they were visiting here during that actual time.

Michele Freeman: And so we had a lot of people that were victims that weren’t necessarily from Las Vegas right.

Michele Freeman: So first off, I definitely want to give kudos to all the wrestling agencies surrounding us and to our our Big Brother agency here the city of Las Vegas.

Michele Freeman: wasn’t it was Las Vegas Metropolitan Police department and the Sheriff who runs that department is who had to lead through his police department through that and he was the one who was really.

Michele Freeman: Running in and also you know, calling upon us to assist all of the other local agencies and what Las Vegas is known for which is really, really.

Michele Freeman: Incredibly inspiring is our Community and our Community and we come together and it’s not worth.

Michele Freeman: it’s not worth we come together during difficult times, and that doesn’t mean that somebody won’t say.

Michele Freeman: I didn’t like what was going on there’s certainly going to be people that didn’t feel like they were Community right in times of trouble or difficulty or.

Michele Freeman: In devastation or traumatic experiences, however, I personally witnessed where we all, as if i’m speaking in the law enforcement space, the law enforcement communities.

Michele Freeman: public safety Community so whether it’s the fire departments We work very well, a police departments first responders have expanded what that definition means here in Vegas nap here, and I should say our entire southern Community southern Las Vegas area southern Nevada area, excuse me.

Michele Freeman: And what that means is we’re not we’re not not looking at that was a double negative so don’t do that.

Michele Freeman: But we’re we look at everybody we look at you know whether you’re in the hospital your medical staff your fire department everybody’s first responders behind the scene people.

Michele Freeman: dispatch your people that are working maintenance they’re doing all these things, to make sure that everybody on the front line can continue to move, nobody is more valuable than another person.

Michele Freeman: And that’s what’s so incredible about our Community, we cultivate on that relationship we built that relationship and we’re able to move forward, so one of the things that i’ll use as an example through that time was.

Michele Freeman: We weren’t on the strip so my department wasn’t on the strip and here’s what the challenge was for that.

Michele Freeman: Because the Sheriff had enough people there Metropolitan Police department and the other agencies that report it and respond it there was enough people there was actually more than enough people.

Michele Freeman: You know the thing is is you gotta you gotta be careful because too many people sometimes it’s too many people so here’s what happened.

Michele Freeman: We were taking tours and we were walking around and making sure people were okay and come to find out that you’re trained to run in.

Michele Freeman: So we have all these officers here waiting to run in waiting to render aid waiting to give help suited up ready to go, really, really on fire, to help their brothers and sisters in our public safety arena.

Michele Freeman: And they’re told to stand down so now another set of emotions coming because they want to help, so they have to understand which it was very hard in that space.

Michele Freeman: How do I not how do I not run in when that’s what I was told to what to do, that’s what i’m on the ready for i’m always on the ready to ride in right.

Michele Freeman: And so what part of us did was organize and develop plans to be able to accept where they have to stay and how do they work within where they’re at to help the community at large.

Michele Freeman: One of the things that are our police officers, we call them marshals in the city Las Vegas department of public safety same thing as police officers so that’s the same term same category one in Category one certification here in the city or excuse me, and then state in Nevada.

Michele Freeman: What they were given as they were given this responsibility, the Court go to the coroner’s office, and we want you to secure the perimeter.

Michele Freeman: Well, what does that mean that means that they’re going to go and they’re going to make sure that when these families are coming and looking for their loved ones that there is.

Michele Freeman: You know, some kind of order when they come because the coroner’s office has to be protected, obviously that’s the last place you go.

Michele Freeman: When something devastating happens and if there’s death right so so we were told go there, so I did a tour with.

Michele Freeman: Our crisis intervention administrator and a lieutenant at the time, because we were just.

Michele Freeman: My thing is be where your people are beat you know and and balancing that because that’s sometimes I don’t get to always be where my people are and that’s, the most important thing for me.

Michele Freeman: And sometimes I have to be behind the scenes right, but in this case we go down to the coroner’s office and we learn that you know what our people weren’t just securing the perimeter.

Michele Freeman: Our people were actually taking these victims these victims and taking them and helping the people that worked at the coroner’s office.

Michele Freeman: move from one gurney to another cleaning off the blood on the gurney that the body just was on so that they can make it.

Michele Freeman: sanitized for the next person that comes in, because everyone wants to be treated and needs to be treated with respect.

Michele Freeman: So my officers were doing this very different job that they thought was going to be what they were going to be doing.

Michele Freeman: To include some of my officers that were on that were just starting, and that were just on probation and actually and field training.

Michele Freeman: So what a change in where you think you’re going to be to where you left and then everyone else you know, there was a lot of officers and all the other employees that were helping.

Michele Freeman: and supporting and the the like the corrections officers in the jail.

Michele Freeman: We didn’t know if there was going to be like mass arrests or what was going to go on the time was this you know what was the situation at hand so they’re sitting in preparing and waiting.

Michele Freeman: So everyone did a beautiful job, I was very proud, it was one of the most devastating well, it was the most devastating.

Michele Freeman: Big scene ever right across America, however, it was one of the most devastating scenes personally that we were involved in, and then the other piece was checking on your people on here, it was where.

Michele Freeman: You know the deputy chief would walk through and everyone would say oh yeah everything’s good i’m good i’m good and then.

Michele Freeman: I walked through with my crisis intervention administrator and just moments changed because when we get there, they just found out oh my gosh my son was there.

Michele Freeman: And now they’re trying to process that while standing at work, doing their public service job so constant you know mental health and emotional well being and trying to check on everybody.

Michele Freeman: And then you know moving into civil unrest we’re having to you know everyone’s entitled to their first amendment right go out and have a civil protest we’re all for that you are, you should be able to speak your.

Michele Freeman: Your your your belief and go out, but we still had to suit up and be ready and make sure that we connect with the people out there, communicate builds a relationship and hope that the leaders will go ahead and keep it’ll stay peaceful.

Michele Freeman: Well, the hardest thing that I had to do as a leader was now have a almost it was a pre brief because it wasn’t a debrief like after the incident, so it was a briefing really and I went again with the crisis.

Michele Freeman: Intervention administrator and we met the marshals who now we’re all in there, right here and i’m standing out there.

Michele Freeman: In the parking lot and they’re all getting ready to leave they’re all suited up and their gear their trains up and ready to go.

Michele Freeman: And then I had to stay behind.

Michele Freeman: That was incredibly difficult to send everyone out there and me not be there with them.

David Horsager: One thing I noticed about you.

David Horsager: You know, is your deep care for the people and the mission and the city and I know the motto of serve and protect it, that that going back to the night, the.

David Horsager: one October event of how they’re just ready to serve, and that they that they did serve not everybody would do that, like you said, the tension, of being ready to run in and had told to stand down or clean up the blood of someone, but I think there’s attention you know we work with.

David Horsager: Many police departments and chiefs officers, I think, for me, at least, and they all i’ll say the similarity with you, they feel this call to serve and protect we have some great people in our country.

David Horsager: Serving and protecting what they haven’t seen, like you, is someone that cares so much about her people on the team leads.

David Horsager: Even on her sleeve kind of really genuinely lovingly optimistically cares at I think they may be do, but the difference, I saw was with you, I.

David Horsager: I saw people you know a lot of times in policing just have a more of a Shell up like they can’t.

David Horsager: Be emotional or feel the emotion, because it’s just so much, and I, you know i’ve even dear dear friends, that you know that the things you see.

David Horsager: On a daily basis, your people see in that tragic situation with that kid in that apartment or that drug is just the worst of the worst.

David Horsager: That girl that whatever you know this, the images that you see, but your positiveness in life and your care for your people like.

David Horsager: I just think I guess how did you balance showing care and because people can tell out there you care they they can tell, and yet.

David Horsager: And yet, not having this Shell up like like me like I often talk to my police friends and say when I speak at big policing events and like.

David Horsager: They all sit in the back with their hands arms crossed they’re hard and cold, this can be because they want to everybody’s got to see which doors, you know they all want to be the back back back person right and.

David Horsager: And you understand why because they’ve all been lied to hundred times a day.

David Horsager: I didn’t speed I didn’t steal I didn’t do that I never did that and that and then, in that case for building trust they don’t trust anybody, you know, in a way, they don’t they don’t believe anybody because they’ve been lied to hundred times a day.

David Horsager: So they trust you’re lying or many are you know, in a way it’s a bit of a joke with with close friends of mine but I guess.

David Horsager: The tension and the beauty, I think I just how did you do it to be to be caring and I know it’s not easy to take you know this isn’t a pandering thing but it people need to know you really.

David Horsager: Care emotionally, for your people, and yet, how do you have enough of a distance, so that you keep your sanity in you know these tragic situations that you’re having to deal with.

Michele Freeman: yeah so.

Michele Freeman: it’s an interesting question because I think a lot of people for a long time people never saw that within me and I was very I wasn’t as vulnerable and.

Michele Freeman: You know, I think that the moment in life that changed me was I was a lieutenant and the deputy chief at the time, His name was his name is bill frazier.

Michele Freeman: He told me, you know, I was, I was very about the structure and I was very about the rules and the policies and procedures and it’s very important right.

Michele Freeman: Because that’s what we do in policing we make sure that people are following the Rules, whether it’s it’s state regulations it’s ordinances.

Michele Freeman: It state statutes, whatever it may be they’re following the rule if that’s the jock follow the rule follow the rule and it’s it’s black and white world.

Michele Freeman: But it’s really not there’s Gray, and what he really taught me was.

Michele Freeman: I came in there to talk to him about something that was very black and Gray, in my eyes, there was somebody that absolutely violated policy and I felt like there so violate policy equals discipline back in my younger years right.

David Horsager: And you set out and like jail right.

David Horsager: Like I did on the on the detention Center front.

David Horsager: yeah.

Michele Freeman: Absolutely, I was incarcerated you know, they say, do one one day at a time and entire sentence of your work history right that’s the jail business.

Michele Freeman: right here in the jail business and it’s a very unique business to be in and a lot of people can’t do it so it’s very i’m glad you brought that up because.

Michele Freeman: A lot of times the correction staff gets overlooked and they do such a unique job and it’s very admirable and it’s very difficult and I remember so many police officers saying there’s no way.

Michele Freeman: I could be locked up for my entire career, one day, at a time of work right so.

Michele Freeman: Well, what happened was he you know i’m sitting here and I come to him, and I say this is what I think we need to do right we’ve got this violation and we need to go ahead and.

Michele Freeman: Next, it to this discipline and he’s like Michelle he’s like you have to think about the human side the human side is just as important as anything else.

Michele Freeman: And the at that point in time that’s when I was able to I didn’t get it fully then but I heard it and I let it compute.

Michele Freeman: And because I was very no emotion like I didn’t show emotion, I never let anyone through my shall I always kept that very strong you know i’ll go with the New York like you know look I kept it very strong structured and.

Michele Freeman: And he said it, and, over time, I was able to develop more and more, because I was all about let’s just get the job done we don’t need to talk about your family we don’t need to get to know each other, we don’t but I missed the mark so long.

Michele Freeman: And didn’t realize the importance of networking and connecting and building those trusting relationships.

Michele Freeman: in life, and that was the foundation of when the light bulb turned on for me that I was able to understand.

Michele Freeman: and feel what that meant without not being able to do my job, I still had to look out and do things and make difficult decisions for sure, and I still you know was doing that, throughout my career.

Michele Freeman: But connect with the people, because the people are what matter it without people you don’t have anything.

Michele Freeman: That love it well.

David Horsager: it’s true well, you said something to me, you know I had you get on the phone with all of our certified trust edge coaches.

David Horsager: You know right there, and maybe it was April or May of the pandemic and.

David Horsager: or actually would have been right after this more of the civil unrest and we had the George George floyd murder out here, and you know the challenges, with all that kind of thing, and you know what.

David Horsager: All of the issues that came kind of that instigated and I remember in the midst of that you have the civil unrest things like you have the protests happening out there, some of them, and although.

David Horsager: Because of the relationships you guys have built you had a lot less, I think that many parts of the world right, but you said something like we don’t do, social justice and saying we do we do physical distancing and I love that tell us about how you did that.

Michele Freeman: yeah so thank you for for saying that too.

Michele Freeman: So so social distancing is this like a word that everyone’s using right.

Michele Freeman: But that’s not what we really want to do we want to, we want to physically distance ourselves from people because we don’t want to.

Michele Freeman: Be around, we want to make sure that we’re safe and that we do the right things, and that we continue to physical distance, so that we can go ahead and help our Community heal as best as we can.

Michele Freeman: not carry our this pandemic forward, you know, reduce the rate of our the the virus itself and maintain the physical distance connection.

Michele Freeman: or excuse me, the social distance the social connection, so we want to stay socially connected and physically apart.

Michele Freeman: So and and so physically apart, is what we’re doing right here, right now, we’re but we’re staying socially connected, you and I are having a conversation like you’re sitting right here with me.

Michele Freeman: But we’re maintaining our physical distance, so that we can help our Community, and I think that what happens in right now so many people are having so many difficulties with.

Michele Freeman: a myriad of things because of the change in the way that we’re living and not having that connection and not being able to be physically with people, which is very difficult right because isolation.

Michele Freeman: Is a whole nother thing, especially people that live by themselves right so that you’re not able to.

Michele Freeman: work and live the way that you’re used to working and living and staying by yourself, is difficult.

Michele Freeman: But there are so many ways, that you can maintain this social relationship and continuance of connection.

Michele Freeman: And continuance of building your relationships it hasn’t changed, and you know what I like to do is try and look at, there was the generation.

Michele Freeman: Prior to actually you know gen X, probably, I would say, or the millennial generation right that was that started to speak to me and say Look, we want to work remotely can we work remotely and and.

Michele Freeman: The thought process at the time was pretty much around many places in our country was no you come to work because that’s what you do right well look at us now.

Michele Freeman: These millennials were correct, you can work in the space that we’re working in now, and there are studies to even say be more productive.

Michele Freeman: So you can actually have or like a combination of work right, you can combine whether it’s remote.

Michele Freeman: and physical and so you can have this beautiful relationship we do things that we wouldn’t have done it now there’s like quarantine he our right, people are having quarantining drinks and.

Michele Freeman: quarantining parties and all this fun stuff you can still you can do a puzzle with someone from another word, you know across the world, you can do.

Michele Freeman: you read a book with somebody in another State in another country, you can do things with other people without physically being there but maintaining your social connection.

Michele Freeman: And then keep our emotional.

David Horsager: yeah let’s touch on you know it hit us hard here in minneapolis when the you know the the civil unrest, of course, and and I remember i’ll get real vulnerable here, I hope this comes out exactly right, but you know I had, I have a.

David Horsager: An African American teammate on our team here and we were just over lunch, I was just talking about how are you feeling and and he was talking about how.

David Horsager: Heavy it was for their family and and his son and and just some of the things that have never happened to me that have happened to him and and.

David Horsager: and his his 18 year old son and and some stuff that he was going through in that emotional time processing things five minutes later.

David Horsager: I got a call from a white police officer that’s scared to death, how police officers are going to be treated as a result of this whole you know the civil unrest challenges in Minnesota and.

David Horsager: His perspective, which was very different but somehow one I just love you to speak to the differences and what what how you deal with that and to I think just you did a beautiful job and i’ve seen you do it building relationships across.

David Horsager: Cultural and other divides economic and other divides and I think just speaking to that as a leader, a little bit and what you have done in Vegas and personally.

Michele Freeman: yeah thanks.

Michele Freeman: So this is, you know it’s obviously a heavy topic and it’s very real and it’s very important and.

Michele Freeman: I think one of the things that really resonated with me was several years back, I was fortunate enough to the city of Las Vegas to take a diversity class.

Michele Freeman: This class was more than just a class right your routing class, it was really an eye opening experience it was a few days, there was a couple different kind of.

Michele Freeman: showcases of it, but I was able to go in the leadership forum, and I think it was three days it may have been to.

Michele Freeman: It was many, many years back, and you know my different my my definition of diversity really was very similar to their definition of diversity.

Michele Freeman: And that’s inclusion of everybody and that’s us and just speak to your color your skin religion, gender.

Michele Freeman: Any preference it’s about your thought process and your experiences and your exposures and how you were brought up.

Michele Freeman: That all develops your thought process and that’s how you kind of think the way that you do right, and so you go through life and you may have a certain experiences and exposures that kind of major.

Michele Freeman: And all of those are just as important as any one of anyone’s else’s and so when it’s funny for me, you know because we just talked about in policing it’s like.

Michele Freeman: Where the people in blue you put on the uniform and it’s like.

Michele Freeman: I don’t see I see the the blue we’re on the same team it’s kind of like when you suit up to go and play you know or practice practice before you’re going to play a game.

Michele Freeman: you’re suiting up and you’re on the same team you’re just it doesn’t matter what you look like what your color your skin is what your religion is what you ate for breakfast what you didn’t eat for breakfast.

Michele Freeman: You just come and you’re there to be on the same team and to move towards the common goal right.

Michele Freeman: And so my that’s how I was actually brought up, and I mean New York is you know, I was fortunate to be in that Community bringing us up there and learning the way that I did.

Michele Freeman: And and experiencing lots of differences and accepting lots of differences and recognizing that everyone’s entitled to their opinion.

Michele Freeman: And their opinion is just as valuable as mine, even if it’s a difference of opinion it doesn’t matter i’m allowed to have mine and everyone else is allowed to have theirs.

Michele Freeman: And I always say like if you have the choice to be writer kinds choose kinds there’s no need that you have to be right, all the time and sometimes you can be right and it’s hurtful.

Michele Freeman: And it doesn’t mean that you have to express right, and so, for me, I think you know it’s real, we need to take a pause and understand that no one can understand any of us, none of us right.

Michele Freeman: So I i’ll use this analogy, and I don’t know if i’m getting deep enough for you, but i’ll give this analogy that I use quite a bit.

Michele Freeman: I look at life as this balcony and we’re all in the balcony of life.

Michele Freeman: And so during our life we have different seats in the balcony so right now I have my seat in the balcony because of all of my experience all of my journey so far has taken me so this seat.

Michele Freeman: And even if you were to sit on my lap not being weird or anything but even if you were to sit on my lap and look forward.

Michele Freeman: you’re not going to see this things the same way that i’m going to see him i’m going to have to look around you i’m going to have to look beside you we’re not going to see it exactly the same.

Michele Freeman: And then, as I, develop and I grow i’m going to move to a new seat in the balcony and i’m going to get to experience and see things just differently now again in my new seat.

Michele Freeman: So, as we continue through our life journey we continue and see things differently, and if we go and we reflect, which is something I really take a lot of time to do nowadays.

Michele Freeman: reflect on the past, how can we learn from it not be disappointed and maybe something we wish, we would have done differently, but you know, learn and grow, so if we can do that.

Michele Freeman: and change and have a little bit more grace for ourselves.

Michele Freeman: As well as others, and even if we’re opinionated people because, first, first of all I am opinionated I absolutely you know I told you, I keep saying coming from New York, we all got that stereotype you’ve got an opinion.

Michele Freeman: And I do and i’m quick to be able to do that, but at the same time I I have that opinion and then I stopped and I pause and I was very lucky i’ll give you one more.

Michele Freeman: one more piece of my journey, when I was in when I was going for my associates degree back in New York, and I was fortunate to have a Defense attorney as a professor.

Michele Freeman: And this is what he shared we talked about all these different controversial issues, so we would talk about when I talk controversial i’m talking about hot topic controversial i’m talking about.

Michele Freeman: let’s say death penalty abortion things that are very controversial and people are very passionate about right, so this is what he did, for us, and this is me and my young years, he said, my late teenage years but young years he says.

Michele Freeman: Who who believes in you know xyz and we all raise our hands on what side we believed in right whether death penalty pro or not in you know against death penalty same thing for abortion.

Michele Freeman: And then he broke us up into teams and now we have to defend the side that we were opposition of.

Michele Freeman: That very lesson allowed me to continue to grow through life and remember so but, even when I make my judgment call I always try to look the surrounding area of what.

Michele Freeman: could be converse to what my beliefs, are what could be different and there’s so many things that you can do something, the same way.

Michele Freeman: or excuse me, you can do one thing get the same result and do it different ways and it doesn’t mean anyone was wrong, it just means that it was different and we should be able to respect those differences, because we’re one.

Michele Freeman: Community we all are the same, we all have skeletal structures and we all bleed red.

David Horsager: yeah well from a little depth here to wrapping up to the lightning round this has been so good, Michelle so good, I mean everybody.

David Horsager: defend I love this idea defend the opposite side learned event we my dad was, by the way, really good at this bringing up something at the table and you got to defend either side, and it was such a healthy thing, and I remember, then other people aren’t like that it meant.

David Horsager: You can’t this isn’t an argument it’s whatever you believe it isn’t an argument to learn right, it was a argument to have instead and.

David Horsager: What a gift, but all of this inclusion of everybody grace I love this one, if you if you have a choice, if you have to choose between right and kind choose kind.

David Horsager: Be where you are take a view from the balcony it’s different than anybody else’s, no matter where how you set.

David Horsager: pod is positive, you your little start to the day positive quotes month podcasts meditate belly breathe be there pause.

David Horsager: Take a gratitude walk I mean there’s so much here physical not physical not not social this might have to physical distance doesn’t mean you have to social distance so.

David Horsager: Here we go Michelle this has been so we can talk all day I love this but we’re going to the lightning round, you only get a sentence each or so, you know you’re you’re gonna get tight and and quick here as we bring it to a close what’s a favorite book or resource right now.

Michele Freeman: So my go to is positive quotes for every day by Patricia Lawrence.

David Horsager: Okay positive quotes, by the way, everybody, this will all be in the show notes, all you have to do is look at trusted leader show.com wwe trusted leader show COM.

David Horsager: Anything great that’s referenced here that Michelle may miss the show notes chief freeman will will will just make sure it’s it’s listed there, so you don’t have to worry about putting it down too quick, so all right number two what’s something you can’t live without.

Michele Freeman: I would say.

Michele Freeman: I would say, I talked about pizza pizza is definitely a go.

David Horsager: There we go.

Michele Freeman: And then.

Michele Freeman: style New York style for sure, but I would also say.

Michele Freeman: connectivity and cultivating relationships and building on by long lasting family and friend relationships.


David Horsager: best advice or in the in a quick round here just a piece of advice or a quote.

Michele Freeman: always be true to yourself.

David Horsager: always be true to yourself love it and I love yours lead with love the Foundation every relationship is trust like that one a lot.

Michele Freeman: Yes, yes, of course, it’s one of my top ones for sure.

David Horsager: yeah love yours.

David Horsager: One thing left to do one one hope you have for the future.

Michele Freeman: continue to give i’m inspired by giving and inspired by learning so I never want to stop learning from others, and I never want to stop being able to give to others.

David Horsager: Fantastic you have kept learning I watched that just your love for learning is contagious.

David Horsager: Well, one more question where can people find out about you, if you have a linkedin or something that go ahead.

Michele Freeman: I do have linkedin um I i’m Michele freeman with one l m ic H le freeman I use the only social media platform that I actually use continually is Twitter so i’m Mr freeman Vegas baby no just kidding just.


Michele Freeman: it’s em freeman Vegas.

David Horsager: Vegas that’ll be in the show notes, of course.

David Horsager: Yes, so well, it is the trusted leader show so last question who’s a leader you trust and why.

Michele Freeman: So this is a hard one because there’s many.

Michele Freeman: And i’m gonna I think i’m gonna give you one, but I think I might give you two even though you said I can’t Am I allowed to do that.

Of course.

Michele Freeman: So the first one i’m going to say, is my husband’s.

Michele Freeman: and obviously i’m in a relationship with him and if I was not trusting him I wouldn’t be in the relationship with him.

Michele Freeman: But I saw him at work he I met him at work, I know, one of the things I said I would never do right now, or the person that you work with.

Michele Freeman: met him at work and saw that he walked his talk, he was honest he might not have always said it, the way that you want it to hear it, but he you never had you never were blindsided you always knew what you were going to get.

Michele Freeman: He was very strategic he supported his people, he was there for his people he walked the talk, but he proved and and he led courageously.

Michele Freeman: And people followed him and people still to this day, say that they follow him, not because he’s my husband.

Michele Freeman: Because they give me examples of what took place when they’re giving me examples of laughter and enjoyment and there’ll be like yep and they’ll say exactly what he did and give me those examples so i’m going to say him as one.

Michele Freeman: And then i’m also going to say you I think you’ve been.

Michele Freeman: Really inspirational for me and my development i’m really grateful that our paths have blends it i’m grateful that you have inspired me personally and professionally i’m grateful to have been able to to learn from you.

Michele Freeman: and to be able to frame things simplistically and you demonstrate exactly what you speak of.

Michele Freeman: You don’t just say it you do it, you live it you’re vulnerable you express that and I think it’s something that’s very important, and you are an inspirational leader and a trusting leader and it’s, not just because you.

Michele Freeman: You teach it it’s because you live it, and so I just wanted to thank you for allowing me to be in the space with you and learn from you and continue to grow.

Michele Freeman: and realize that your eight pillars of trust are invaluable and I believe in the principles, not because you train them because they’re real.

Michele Freeman: They matter.

Thank you.

David Horsager: wow i’m going to end this show today.

Thank you, thank you, chief.

David Horsager: Well, I don’t have much else to say, but thank you to chief and thank you all for listening it’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 11: Coach Jim Johnson on How Leaders Can Effectively Motivate Others

In this episode, David sits down with Coach Jim Johnson, Speaker, Coach and Author, to discuss how leaders can effectively motivate others.

Coach Jim’s Bio:
Based on what transpired in 2006, Coach Jim Johnson is an authority on teamwork, leadership and realizing your dreams.

During what people call the “miracle game” Coach helped an autistic high school senior realize his dream of playing with the team. Hoping for just one basket, Coach, and the rest of the country, was amazed when Jason McElwain scored 20 points in 4 minutes.

In his keynote “Leadership Lessons from Half Court” Coach shares real-world tools attendees can implement right away. He has appeared on Oprah, Good Morning America, and ESPN and is the author of the book A Coach and a Miracle.

Coach Jim’s Links:
Website: https://coachjimjohnson.com
Book: https://coachjimjohnson.com/inspirational-motivational-book-products/
J-Mack Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmaIsE2nLZk&ab_channel=CMICK1275
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CoachJimJohnson
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachjimjohnson/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CoachJimJohnson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachjimjohnson/

Key Quotes:
1. “When you have a setback, you got to make it a comeback.”
2. “The closer I live to my personal mission, the better leader I became.”
3. “Who motivates the motivator?”
4. “The people that are successful are always learning.”
5. “The more that you can find ways to feed your mind is hugely beneficial.”
6. “If you don’t build trust with the people you’re working with, then you’re going to struggle trying to motivate them.”
7. “Do you actually have a plan to build trust with your team?”
8. “You have to have stories.”
9. “What kind of teammate are you?”
10. “Listen and ask more questions.”
11. “The more that you can develop leaders, the stronger your team is going to be.”
12. “Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching?”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen R. Covey: https://amzn.to/3pNXYD0
“Atomic Habits” by James Clear: https://amzn.to/3undE3F
“Season of Life” by Jeffrey Marx: https://amzn.to/3btPc85

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer and today I have a special guest coach Jim Johnson. Thanks for coming on the show author coach speaker friend, welcome.

Jim Johnson: Great to be here. Thanks David.

David Horsager: Hey, tell us three things we need to know about coach. Before I get into it.

Jim Johnson: Three things we know about coach. Well, I am a family man, I’ve been married for 38 years

Jim Johnson: To the same woman, which is always good. And we have one son. It’s been hard on us because he lives in California and we live in the east coast.

Jim Johnson: And I grew up in a family of educators, so I ended up being a teacher and coach, my, my father was actually my high school basketball coach. So I and I’m the oldest of six children. So I’ll give you a little quick background.

David Horsager: Well, you’re, you’re a coach turned kind of leadership expert resilience and all these kind of things.

David Horsager: Tell us about I want to get into this because they when I was, you know, I know you and I know some of the great we’re going to get into some of the principles that you share a little bit but

David Horsager: Tell us three times you took over programs basketball programs where you turn them around in a pretty short period of time.

David Horsager: Give us

David Horsager: Tell us, what did you do

Jim Johnson: Well, I’ll start with the bad news is my

Jim Johnson: Three, good ones was after the first one, where my first year as a head coach I lead this team to 17 consecutive losses and they fired me

David Horsager: That sounds like my high school, by the way.

David Horsager: High School. I think we were

David Horsager: Where we want about every game and football, I played for the winningest high school football coach in the state of Minnesota.

David Horsager: Okay, my senior year, I think we’re one in 19 in basketball.

Jim Johnson: Oh, wow.

David Horsager: Though, even though I was the captain. It’s not a proud place to be.

David Horsager: In basketball. So

Jim Johnson: Like you know what that did for me. And the reason I started with that is because

Jim Johnson: It really humbled me because I was, I got this job at 25 years old, I was pretty arrogant, because I had been successful as assistant coach and thought I knew everything about coaching and leadership and and after having that really difficult year. It really helped me

Jim Johnson: Ground me and realize that I had. And that’s when I started my study of leadership. And then I did one other break. I got is the next year. I worked for a college coach.

Jim Johnson: That ironically, I would have never known this. His name was building Gundy and his two sons have been head coaches in the NBA.

Jim Johnson: So coach Van Gundy took me under his wing. But then I really became a student of leadership. And the other thing is that I really learned

Jim Johnson: That when you have a setback, you got to make it a comeback and the one thing that I really drove me Dave was in my next 29 years as a head coach.

Jim Johnson: I never forgot that the fact that I always had to prove every day that I could do the job. So then the answer your question specifically I just was much more clear about my leadership principles in what I wanted to do and it started by being a better leader of me.

Jim Johnson: In number two is really getting clarity of the type of student athletes that I wanted to have on my team.

Jim Johnson: And those were. I mean, certainly we can get into more leadership principles, but those are where I started. And, and when I have more

Jim Johnson: more clarity. It really helped me and we were able to turn. I mean, I took over three programs that all hit losing teams before we got there.

Jim Johnson: In the latest we turned around and team and they have a winning record was the second year. So, so we were able to implement some things fairly quickly and got the ball rolling in the right direction.

David Horsager: All rolling. That’s all about you. That’s how you talk about, but let’s go to the what

David Horsager: Yeah. What you know we talked about this a lot. Trust is Leadership Institute and talking to, you know, our book my new book trusted leader but but we talked about that. Were you said you start by leading you haha what are you doing to lead you these days. And what did you do then.

Jim Johnson: Well, I definitely one of the first things is, is

Jim Johnson: You know, I started to read more. And one of the books that earlier. My career was I read seven habits from Dr covey. And one of the things he talked about

Jim Johnson: Was a your why what what’s your personal mission. And when I read the book, I will. I didn’t, I very little clarity about what I really wanted to be all about

Jim Johnson: And so I I really started in fact I this one things I teach people is how to discover your mission.

Jim Johnson: And when I get clarity about that is, is it my mission statement is to be an outstanding role model that makes a positive difference in the world by helping others make their dreams come true.

Jim Johnson: And when I get clarity about that my my players then really understood what I stood for.

Jim Johnson: There was no confusion. You know, I, that I was going to lead by example. I was gonna we were going to do things the right way we’re going to do things with integrity.

Jim Johnson: And we’re going to do that consistently day in and day out. Um, so that’s what I mean by leading by myself is, I think you have to have a foundation of what your why, why are you on this earth.

Jim Johnson: And then live it consistently and I’m not saying I’ve made my more my share of mistakes, but the closer I live to my personal mission, the better leader I became for others.

David Horsager: You know, this kind of gets to leading yourself. I think one thing i love that because I think you know it drives us this mission can drive us when we

David Horsager: You know, I often say your mission your goals can change that mission generally stays basically the same or you should change it. I mean, you know, everything comes under that. So if, if this goal doesn’t support that mission, you should change the goal always gotta change your mission right

David Horsager: Right, so

David Horsager: What about leading you from a, from a practical standpoint of of daily. I mean, what kind of, you know, a lot of times, great leaders like you. And certainly when you’re coaching and and as an athlete and I know you you’ve got an incredible marathon time still today but um

David Horsager: But what are you doing daily daily habits daily routine maybe to your morning routine or just habits. I know when you came in visit and stayed overnight. We had to make sure you worked out but but i but what what are some of the daily habits.

Jim Johnson: So I have a daily five that I do and they’re not necessarily all I do some things in the morning, but because of various because one of the things like I’m big on energy

Jim Johnson: So for me for energy. As you already mentioned, you know, I work out pretty much every single day in and, like, people say, you know, how do you have time to do that. I, I look at the other way. I

Jim Johnson: I need to do that because it just makes me such a stronger person because I have more energy by working out so you know one of the things I advise people is, is

Jim Johnson: It, you know, something like working out, is I make an appointment myself every day. Now I’m probably a little bit different.

Jim Johnson: Like I know my wife, when she was teaching, she would wake up at 430 in the morning, every day and work out before work. Now that’s not exactly my cup of tea. So I so like today, I worked out at six o’clock in the morning. So, and I did a workout and then

David Horsager: So very late riser. I mean, you were sleeping.

David Horsager: In I’ll tell you what.

Jim Johnson: So, but, you know, but there’s other days where I have like yesterday did a morning presentation. So I worked out in the afternoon, but what I do is I blacked out a time and say, Okay, this is what I’m going to work out when

David Horsager: You when you block that out. Like, when do you block that out in your calendar every week because you’re, you’re, you know, schedule changes like me. We got presentations runs virtual thing we’re getting interviewed by media or whatever it is.

David Horsager: Any book so you know what what do you do when do you schedule out your workouts.

Jim Johnson: I i do that every Sunday.

Jim Johnson: So I look at my week

Jim Johnson: And I I schedule and in, you know, and then I black in is okay, this is what I’m going to do this. So this is what I’m going to do this and and so I’d make an appointment. And I do that for the whole week for workouts.

Jim Johnson: How long is your workout normal workout.

Jim Johnson: Well, it varies. It can go as short as

Jim Johnson: 45 minutes to as long as two hours, depending on what I’m doing and they’re kind of like when I play tennis, because I played a club because I like you were in the winter right now so we’re not playing outside

Jim Johnson: You know, I have to drive the club. So it’s like a two hour commandments, do that.

Jim Johnson: But then when I work out. I have a you know a little home gym that I work out at home, then it would be a shorter workout. But I also

Jim Johnson: Been doing a daily walk. And just to finish the question daily five that I do that, I bet in the last three years.

Jim Johnson: I probably haven’t missed one of these five more than once. One of the things that I read a great book. Recently, you may have heard of it. Atomic habits by James clear

Jim Johnson: And one of the things that really stuck out in my mind, is he said when you’re developing habits, good or bad is especially the good ones. You don’t want to miss ever two days in a row.

Jim Johnson: So that was my concept. So my daily five is I do a workout. I do a daily prayer I do a daily meditation session.

Jim Johnson: I do a goal setting cards, where I read cards of what my objectives that are for basically these are annual goals and then I do a daily Journal of goals. So those are five things that I rarely, rarely ever miss

David Horsager: What. Well, how long does that take, let’s just go run through the thing so workout was 45 to two hours daily prayer meditate, you put these other for together. Do you do

Jim Johnson: Sometimes, sometimes not. Okay. What

David Horsager: Time frame on those

David Horsager: So we give people a clue because for things here that are pretty cool that you can actually people could get done quicker than they think. And it could be right.

Jim Johnson: Powerful prayer 10 to 15 minutes meditation 15 to 20

Jim Johnson: The gold cards. Three minutes. The a goal journal 10 minutes

David Horsager: Okay, those gold cards. When you usually do those

Jim Johnson: I do those two sometimes three times a day. They’re always when I get up in the morning I get in front of a mirror. The first thing I always say to myself, is I am responsible because I take charge of my life. And then I

Jim Johnson: I also do some mantras, as well as gold. Like I shared to myself that I like myself, I share to myself that I have an infinite mindset.

Jim Johnson: You know, so those are just couple of few mantras that I do. I do that in the morning. I always do it right before I go to bed and sometimes I will do it in the middle of the day as well.

David Horsager: Give us it you know every everybody’s different on this and I just on the meditation time if you’re open to sharing it.

Jim Johnson: What’s your

David Horsager: What kind of thing do you do to read something to you, then, what’s that mean to you.

Jim Johnson: Okay. So meditation for me and I’ve been experimenting with different things. So I do

Jim Johnson: I start with a breathing exercise. So that takes between 30 and 45 seconds, then I do a mantra.

Jim Johnson: With one of my business goals right now, so I will actually repeat the mantra somewhere between 10 and 15 times where I’m also doing breathing.

Jim Johnson: Then I actually do. Because I’m an avid tennis player. I actually do some visualization and me playing tennis. So that’s another thing I do. And then I do a just a muscle relaxer and finish with another breathing exercise. Hmm.

David Horsager: That’s interesting. And if you’re willing to share it. What’s one of your big goals this year.

Jim Johnson: So the goal is now because I’ve been making the pivot is is I want to double my virtual presentations, which I say until the coven thing. I didn’t think I’d ever say

David Horsager: Yeah. And what’s that mean how many

Jim Johnson: I want to do 50 this year.

Jim Johnson: Okay, average for a month is what my goal is so

David Horsager: There you go. Yeah, it’s great. So, so what these days. How are you, are there any actually you think about HABITS AND ROUTINES any boundaries that you put out there and sake. You say, I say no to this so that I can do that.

Jim Johnson: Yeah, that’s a great question because of the, one of the things that I’ve started to do better is, I call it my big three and

Jim Johnson: When I when I write out my big three for the week and I write out what I try to do every single night as I put together a list and I tried to do my big three.

Jim Johnson: And making sure the other thing I’m starting to do much better as I do what I call time block. So for example, if I’m working on.

Jim Johnson: You know business emails or whatever. I will blackout a certain amount of time I do some social media. So I black out a certain period of time.

Jim Johnson: But what I tried to do like boundaries. For example, like I never bring my phone into my bedroom. Okay, so I know that goes stays downstairs.

Jim Johnson: When I get up in the morning. I never unless it’s rare exception where I think something that I might have to deal with right in the morning. I never looked at my email.

Jim Johnson: My email is always done usually late morning 30 minutes and then I usually try to go back and do the one other 15 to 20 minute block a time so I try never to look at my new Mel’s morn twice a day.

David Horsager: Great. So let me, let me ask you this, on the big three. Is that a weekly or a daily thing. We call those at our office, we call DMA is difference making actions.

David Horsager: Yeah, um, you know, like Collins, who we agree with you, said if you have more than three push forward priorities, you don’t have any right

David Horsager: Right, so

David Horsager: But what are your big three. What’s that look like is that a weekly or daily

Jim Johnson: So I do a weekly where I go big three. And then I usually will look at and say, Okay, one of the big threes. I want to really focus on today. So I have three objectives for that.

David Horsager: Okay, good. Love it. What keeps you motivated

Jim Johnson: Well, you know, I heard somebody say this once i think is great, who motivates the motivator. Because, you know, that’s kind of what I am right. I’m a motivator. So

Jim Johnson: I think the best thing that that has been helpful for me is I’m a student of learning. I’m curious.

Jim Johnson: In there for like, you know what, like I have a one little talk. I don’t do that much, but it’s it really helped me in foundation life I caught the 10 questions all effective leaders should be able to answer.

Jim Johnson: And like one of them is what is your personal growth plan so like I. One of the things that because a feeding my mind in my curiosity helps me immensely to for my motivation and then

Jim Johnson: Because one of my major goals is to inspire other people. So like learning and trying to share ideas of things I’ve learned. I’ve tried you know

Jim Johnson: I mean I’ve stolen a lot of ideas. As for sure, but, you know, the thing is, is I think the people that are are successful are always learning, they’re always trying to gain ideas and then they go to use it, how it benefits them.

Jim Johnson: You know, not necessarily the exact same way that Dave, you would do it, or someone else to do it. You know, it’s got to fit my style. You know what I’m doing.

Jim Johnson: But, you know, like, again I caught the two for one, I think in feeding your mind, you can really be cognizant like like I do have a goal every to goal of my goal is to read a book, a week. Okay.

Jim Johnson: Okay, so I like the first thing I do in the morning tomorrow morning routine first 10 minutes when I get up as a read for 10 minutes. Okay, before I do anything else.

Jim Johnson: So, and then periodically during the day, if I have a short little break. I may just read for another 510 minutes. You know, I always have my book ready for me.

Jim Johnson: But then, you know, things that people here, but I don’t think they really, for example, I go for a walk. When I go for a walk. I listen to podcasts.

Jim Johnson: Okay, when I exercise where I’m home now. I wouldn’t do this playing tennis because I’m playing somebody else.

Jim Johnson: But if I’m, you know, going out for a jog or writing my exercise bike, I put on and listen to podcasts or or I might put a video on while I’m watching TV, you know, something like that.

Jim Johnson: And then the other simple one is when I drive my car, you know, I’m listening to audio program. I mean, it was it sometimes I’ll listen to music. Because once a while. It’s good to listen to

Jim Johnson: Music You enjoy, but I think, you know, the more that you can find ways to feed your mind is just hugely beneficial.

David Horsager: Absolutely input equals output right

David Horsager: Absolutely. So tell it, you know, give us as long as we’re on the topic. Can you give us one or two more of the 10 questions that you talked about from the the

David Horsager: Student What was the 10 questions.

Jim Johnson: 10 questions all effective leader should be able to answer.

David Horsager: A couple more of those.

Jim Johnson: You’re okay. So, uh, what is your why your personal mission statement, do you have in a writing. Another one is, what are your top three values. Okay, which does connect with your personal mission. Another one is what is your personal wellness plan I talked about your personal growth plan.

Jim Johnson: What is your financial independence plan.

Jim Johnson: You know, which right now. I mean, you know, and that’s saying this is a because if I would have been hit 25 years ago by coven

Jim Johnson: I would have met in dire straits. Because when I was in like around 30 my financial independence plan was to get to Friday so I could pay my bills. Okay.

Jim Johnson: Then all of a sudden I started to read. And I go, this is not how I want to live. Now fortunately I mean coven really hurt my my speaking business. There’s no question about it. I took a nosedive plus

Jim Johnson: I was apprehensive about going into virtual events. So I took me a while to pivot. I didn’t. And that was something I didn’t do well in the fact I really had a lot of reflection myself, do I want to stay in this business.

Jim Johnson: But the, the other side of that coin is is that i i’m financially independent. I mean, I’m not Bill Gates, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t have to work to live. Okay. So I work because I love it. And that’s a nice place to be for sure.

David Horsager: So certainly good questions. Let’s let let’s let’s jump into motivation and another way because you’ve been like you said you’re a motivator and you motivated, a lot of basketball players and you had you

David Horsager: Know you become known with the the J Mac and sp and all those kind of things. Meet

David Horsager: President and whatnot but

David Horsager: How do you, how did you motivate those players. How do you motivate. How do you motivate anyone else.

Jim Johnson: Well, I think the huge thing is is you have to get to know them, you have to build personal relationships because if you don’t build relationships, we’re going back and you’ll like this word, I think you’ve heard of it called trust.

Jim Johnson: Right, if you don’t build trust with the people you’re working with, and you’re, you’re going to struggle trying to motivate them because they won’t

Jim Johnson: respect you. They won’t count on you. So I think just it starts by by that daily, you know, and debut, you know, this is what you’re famous for.

Jim Johnson: But, like, one of the things I talked to leaders about is do you actually have a plan to build trust with your team, like we did you know we we broke it down into

Jim Johnson: things we want to do. We wanted to tell each other the truth, we wanted to be vulnerable with each other.

Jim Johnson: And we wanted to try to do more positive reinforcement by catching people doing right as Ken Blanchard famously put

Jim Johnson: So, you know, those are things that we tried to do consistently to build trust because once you start to build trust and you get to know your people.

Jim Johnson: Because you don’t treat everybody the same. And that’s where we get into is

Jim Johnson: What motivates you Dave may not motivate me or vice versa, or what motivates Sally might not motivate Mary. So what are the things is, yes, there’s are some general things like we had a quote of the day every day.

Jim Johnson: Now, but some people are going to take that quote in much stronger than others, but I think it’s, it’s just constantly. And the other thing that I found

Jim Johnson: In motivation is you have to have stories, you have to have illustrations, where people can embrace, you know, and for me with, you know, with basketball. I was always telling stories you know of maybe players that played before them.

Jim Johnson: You know, professional players and trying to point out both good examples and bad examples they go to always bring up. How come you know basketball.

Jim Johnson: How come the bronze teams, teams always win and Carmelo Anthony’s team has done.

Jim Johnson: Okay, and not to pick on either one of those guys I probably have a little both Carmelo Anthony, but there is something to do, you know, right now in basketball Kyrie Irving

Jim Johnson: One of the most talented guys in the NBA. He’s in it. He’s on a wall. He can’t trust him. You can count on him, you know,

Jim Johnson: And when you get into that thing, it goes back to what we were talking about, you know, you asked me how we turned our programs around. You got to get the right people on the bus. You know, I’m still on the Jim Collins thing but it’s so true. If you don’t have the right people.

Jim Johnson: You know, because talent is important. Don’t get me wrong, but you guys, I was talking to somebody the other day like about picking a team.

Jim Johnson: And we’re not going to pick GUYS, THEY CAN’T DRIBBLE, you know, to play basketball. I mean, that doesn’t make sense. But at the same time.

Jim Johnson: If one guy’s a little bit more talent than the other but one guy’s attitude in ability to accept the rule is so much better that guy that a little more talent, we’re probably going to cut and keep the other guy because that’s important and building that team.

David Horsager: How did you pick them like you got a little bit of time get spring training and you got this, you know, you know, you got this little bit of time that you get a

David Horsager: To be with them. See these number of players. You got to cut it down to five. Or maybe you get 10 or whatever, you know, in basketball. You don’t get so many players like

David Horsager: Football, you can fill it with 50 or whatever you need all these people want to play. How did you pick. I mean, especially when you start turning those teams around

David Horsager: How did you pick. And I think you pick differently than some people probably would have the year before wanted to and there was probably a lot of frustration, but how are you choosing people

Jim Johnson: Well, I will say, and this is, you know, I mean, we were targeting. So we spent a lot of time with our team in the offseason

Jim Johnson: Okay, so we weren’t going into the three day trial or five day trial with no background of the guys that were trying out for the team. Okay.

Jim Johnson: But once in a while, they give me an example is somebody may transfer into our school and I don’t get to know him very well. He tries out for the team.

Jim Johnson: Then, you know, just like people going for a job. I’m checking their references. I’m going to go to his teachers. I’m going to

Jim Johnson: See if I can call the other school where he came from. Talk to maybe the coach there, whatever. So we were going to do some background checking because it was that important.

Jim Johnson: And then as far as the overall with the guys that we knew

Jim Johnson: You know, we would work testing them all the time. How are they going to handle certain situations. Plus, we did a lot of things like a goal setting individually. We talked to our players.

Jim Johnson: You know, we really tried to build our team mission, which was developed winners on and off the court. We really wanted clarity.

Jim Johnson: And we are defining every single day. What does it take to win on the court. It’s not just winning the game all that certainly a measurable thing.

Jim Johnson: We also want to do you know what kind of teammate, are you, you know, like when we talked about aspects of picking a team.

Jim Johnson: One of the things we talked about was, we want to we over me, guys. We want to guys that were thinking of the team first

Jim Johnson: We want to guys that were humble, whether we won or lost. They could handle both of those in the correct way.

Jim Johnson: I and we want to guys that had drive that wanted they wanted to be coached and wanted to be better. And if they didn’t fit those components.

Jim Johnson: They would have probably hardly I used to tell our guys I’m excited about our team in our organization. We’re going to do special things, but it’s not for everybody. You know, you got to be willing to do some certain things because we’re making a commitment each other.

David Horsager: Yeah, well, you wrote the book a coach and a miracle life lessons from Amanda believed in an autistic boy. Yeah. And you talked about story before, and many people have seen it, they’ve heard it around the world. Give us the two minute version of the story of what happened that amazing night.

Jim Johnson: Yeah, so I will Jason J Mac mcilwaine is was a young man that was on the autism spectrum and learning disabled and he tried out for our team for three consecutive years, and didn’t make it any of the years

Jim Johnson: But he served as our team manager and what would really separated him.

Jim Johnson: Is that he had such a commitment. He came to all our offseason and program. He was always there and he was a giver before is a taker is always willing to do the extra to help his team and that kind of thing.

Jim Johnson: So his senior when he didn’t make the team. So I told him I was going to give them a gift and the gift was I was going to put them

Jim Johnson: In uniform for SENIOR NIGHT. And then I was going to get him. Hopefully in the game. Well, we’re just over four minutes to go. I got him in the place exploded.

Jim Johnson: And I usually am pretty macho guy, but I didn’t know that one of our parents made all these placards of Jason’s face and gave them to our students. And when he entered the game, Mr macho sat down and started to cry.

Jim Johnson: Then

David Horsager: But then the big things started happening.

Jim Johnson: Yes, they are. Yes.

David Horsager: If you haven’t seen this. It’s amazing will even put a link in the show notes at trusted leader show.com but tell us about it.

Jim Johnson: So he gets in the game. The first time he touches the ball. He has a three pointer from the corner and he lets it go in the crowd kind of stands in anticipation and Mrs by like six feet.

Jim Johnson: And I can get

Jim Johnson: Kid people that I know you’re not supposed to pray in the public schools. But I am a man of faith and I was praying

Jim Johnson: So please, God help us get one basket.

Jim Johnson: Next possession. He missed it, much shorter shot, but he hit the rim. So I thought, God, starting to listen we’re getting closer.

Jim Johnson: And he’s third possession. He makes a three pointer and the place just explodes Dave and I was so thrilled. I’m thinking, God must be a basketball fan Natalie is Jason scored. He’s got a three pointer can’t gain better than this. Right.

Jim Johnson: Wrong for the next three minutes he turns into his boyhood idol. The light gray Kobe Bryant and like Colby he just starts making shot after shot.

Jim Johnson: And the two things I’ll never forget, with a minute ago.

Jim Johnson: I’m saying the bench cannot believe what I’m seeing tears rolling down my face and I get a tip on my shoulder. I look behind me. It’s J. Maxx mother.

Jim Johnson: She’s bawling her eyes out. And she whispers of May your coach. This is the best gift you could ever give him my son, of course, what would you have done, I cried harder and then

Jim Johnson: How the game ended Spencer Porter pointed at night and I want to give kudos to their coach and their players that were great sports and I they score.

Jim Johnson: In our player takes it out of bounds with less than 10 seconds to go. And he normally throws it to our point guard. He throws the Jason

Jim Johnson: And Jason dribbling down. And I thought, spend support would just let them go. And he go in and make a layup. Oh no, he pulls up like two feet behind the arc

Jim Johnson: A. Let’s go this shot and think JASON DON’T YOU THIS WAY TOO FAR THIS RAIN go ball goes swish I look over our student body runs on the for our players are on the foreign think I’m living in the movie, Rudy.

Jim Johnson: And

David Horsager: 2020 2020 points in three minutes.

Jim Johnson: Yeah, they scored 20 points. Three minutes he had the game ball over his head and

Jim Johnson: Our students are our players, put them up on their shoulders and you know it’s interesting because I ended up having a, you know, from a win loss and championships.

Jim Johnson: pretty successful basketball coaching career, but nothing ever touched my heart and soul, like that. Was it was absolutely the greatest moment of in coaching, bar none. Yeah.

David Horsager: And all of a sudden you’re getting calls from ESPN and

David Horsager: Around the world, and it was a non stop media frenzy and it kind

David Horsager: Of has been 15 year anniversary on that night.

Jim Johnson: Here coming up and feminists and

David Horsager: So that’s exciting. So it’s a great book. Let’s touch on before we start bringing it all together here you got, you know, seven.

David Horsager: Leadership keys to be an effective leader. People need to buy the book and they need to listen to all the have to say, but let’s touch on one of those

David Horsager: That you want to pick out one or two of them go ahead and and let’s jump into one or two of those that you think let’s share that with this audience of trusted leaders.

Jim Johnson: Okay, you know, Mr. Because I’m not going to steal your thunder because one of them is building trust and but that’s already you cover that. So I’ll go to another one so

Jim Johnson: I’m going to say to the first one is effective communication and why that’s so essential. I mean, it’s obvious, but not so obvious.

Jim Johnson: Is that the best thing that I did as a coach I became better and you know doing little speeches before games and that kind of thing.

Jim Johnson: But the best thing I did because the ironic thing about the J. Maxx season was. That was the lowest point in my career Early in the season. We had a tragic event. It takes too long to get into it isn’t in my book.

Jim Johnson: But it divided the team and the next three weeks, was the worst part of my coaching career ever

Jim Johnson: And then the J Mac game and then we won the Section five title for the first time, all in the same season so is pretty incredible. But what why I bring it up is because

Jim Johnson: We were really going down the wrong path. And I brought him in after a game at a Christmas tournament. The next day, because we didn’t have school

Jim Johnson: And the best thing I ever did is I said guys, because we were playing in the championship game we’re playing a really good team and the way we were playing I

Jim Johnson: Told him I shocked him I didn’t bring any balls out I sentimental beaches. Nice. I looked him in the eyes. I said, guys.

Jim Johnson: Unless we decide we’re going to be a team tonight we’re going to lose by 50 points. But the best thing I did is I stopped talking and I said, You guys got to share and how we can unite

Jim Johnson: In and they finally started open up and that night it manifested. We didn’t beat that team, but we lost him and overtime and a show. Will we could do and then it really

Jim Johnson: Created some momentum. So the huge thing that I got way better. And in became very cognizant is to listen and ask more questions, Vic.

Jim Johnson: The last decade of my career would we had tremendous success, we would have a captain’s meeting every week and simply was asking them questions and just sitting and listening.

Jim Johnson: And they, it was so beneficial. It really helped the night, our team and lead us in the right direction than the

Jim Johnson: Give you two more have one real quick because it’s simple, but it’s just something I think we got to really be cognizant of is

Jim Johnson: One of my keys is lead by example and and I think that is so important. We used to tell our players all the time. You’re always onstage.

Jim Johnson: And and we forget it. We almost every leader will say that’s important, but there’s too many leaders and are doing it consistently.

Jim Johnson: And then the last one which you know I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not even sure we really should say

Jim Johnson: This should be part of leadership, because I think it’s the essence of leadership and that servant leadership and that’s the ability to flip the pyramid.

Jim Johnson: And and and really what I think servant leadership is the ability to learn to teach your team. How to be leaders and the more that you can develop leaders, the stronger your team is going to be

David Horsager: Love it. Those are great. I’ll tell you the always on the stage thing is that even more so now with social media. I think if if people don’t recognize it’s it’s not, you’re not always on stage, it’s always on stage. This is always there. Right.

David Horsager: So that’s fantastic.

David Horsager: Let’s jump in here. There’s so much. I get asked so much I could look at and with together with you and I just appreciate it. Our friendship. Let’s get into a quick little lightning round.

David Horsager: What’s your favorite book or resource right now.

Jim Johnson: Well, I brought up the favorite book that I’ve read recently was atomic habits, but I’m an avid reader. So there’s so many great books. I love

Jim Johnson: Stephen Covey’s, you know, seven habits is probably one of my all time favorites.

Jim Johnson: I also big Patrick lunch he only fan right and number. His books and and actually a book that I did want to bring up because I took a few notes, was that

Jim Johnson: It’s called a season of life by Jeffrey marks and it’s a book about football based on a true story, but it was just a great book was

Jim Johnson: Written by about a guy named Joe ermine that played in the NFL and he came back and use a volunteer assistant and just talked about all the life lessons that they did it with the coaching and the players I boy I just admired it

David Horsager: Sounds great. What’s the best advice you’ve been given or favorite quote

Jim Johnson: Attitudes are contagious is years worth catching

David Horsager: That’s good attitudes are contagious. Is yours worth catching all right coach Jim Johnson, what is left on the bucket list. What’s the big thing. What do you still hope for.

Jim Johnson: Will

Jim Johnson: Say two things from a

Jim Johnson: Professional standpoint is I just want to continue. I’m working on a second book for leadership by it’s

Jim Johnson: Working with a college professor here in Rochester, and it’s going to be for young and emerging leaders and want to get it done by the end of this year.

Jim Johnson: So I’m really excited about that. And I just want to continue to inspire people with my presentations and just everything I do that in Dave, you made a great point with social media. I want to be very cognizant that when I

Jim Johnson: post something I’m trying to people give people value and I’m trying to inspire and and make them feel a little bit better so that thing.

Jim Johnson: And then from a personal standpoint, what we’re trying to figure out my wife and I, when we get to his pandemic, how we can a little bit closer to my

Jim Johnson: My son and I guess the personal touches because I become an you know i basketball. I was a basketball junkie for over three decades now is a scary thing to say I’m a tennis junkie.

David Horsager: So you are

David Horsager: I’ll tell you what Minnesota’s halfway there from New York to California. So you know you. But the problem is, you’d still have the, the winner for tennis. So maybe you’ll get all the way over there at least partway Arizona’s a good tennis state i here.

David Horsager: Right, so

David Horsager: That’s fantastic. Well, this has been coached Jim Johnson, before I get to the last question, where can they find out more about you.

Jim Johnson: So my website is coach Jim Johnson, Dad, calm, so that way I wouldn’t forget it and

Jim Johnson: You know, I’m on social media. I’m on Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook, and even have started a little bit of Instagram, although I haven’t quite figured that one out yet so

Jim Johnson: But you know, I do post I do an inspirational post every morning that I do a leadership thought every afternoon. I also have a monthly newsletter that they can pick up for free and also a

Jim Johnson: Weekly, a blog that we do. That’s also complimentary and then my book is still selling and if people are interested if they buy it on the website. Right now we’re selling a discount and I, I’d be glad to sign it for them as well so sure.

David Horsager: All right, we’ll put all that information in the show notes trust the leaders show.com Jim. Last question. It’s the trusted leader show. So who is a leader you trust and why

Jim Johnson: You know i i started, write this down because I and I have to break this down real quick for you is that would be multiple from a coaching standpoint and was the late, great john wooden

Jim Johnson: Because I just studied him in the more that I learned I mean obviously what he did at the end of his career. No one’s ever going to match winning 10 national championships, but the more that I learned about the person he was.

Jim Johnson: Really made especially, you know, just to things like that. He was so devoted to his wife, you know, he was a family person. He was so devoted to players and teaching and then

Jim Johnson: As far as like, you know, like I had the pleasure. I know you know them better than I do. But I did get a chance to meet them. I’m just a big Ken Blanchard fan. I

Jim Johnson: And I was a big Stephen Covey fan, because you know what, I think the thing that is what I admire about you, Dave, as well as I believe you live your message and

Jim Johnson: I I’ve always felt that people that I’ve studied or became friends with their new is I wanted to know that I could trust them, because what they said and what they do are consistent and that’s why I admire.

Jim Johnson: Yourself and why I admired. A couple of people. They said, and certainly if I, the last thing I’ll say the one person. I would love to be able to meet just because of what he did for our country would be Dr. Martin Luther King

David Horsager: Yeah. Well, those are some great ones to look at, for sure. Ken Blanchard you know I’m so grateful to know him. But, you know, talking about a guy who’s just the same on stage and off and just

Jim Johnson: Humble and just

David Horsager: wants the best for others. And so lots here, and certainly the way you live life to I’m inspired by and I’m so grateful for you. So lots to take away

David Horsager: From this time together, you know, leading me first. The we over the me make a big three every day and every week time block never bring the phone to the bedroom. Some people could learn from that, I think, never, never bring them.

David Horsager: Don’t look at your email right away in the morning, the daily five make your daily five and for you. It begins with blocking off a workout.

David Horsager: I am responsible love that mantra every morning the create a personal why

David Horsager: Have a personal growth plan and a personal wellness plan a find financial independence plan feed your mind, read a book every week, you’re always on stage.

David Horsager: servant leadership and a whole lot more coach Jim Johnson. Thank you so much for being on the trusted leader show and for all those listening. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you next time. And stay trusted.

Ep. 10: Milton Dodd on The 4 “L’s” of Successful Leadership

In this episode, David sits down with Milton Dodd, Trust Edge Senior Consultant, to discuss the 4 “L’s” that every leader needs in order to succeed in leadership.

Milton’s Bio:
Milton has a passion for leadership. He’s known for identifying and illuminating hidden potential and extracting the very best from those he leads. Milton helps people maximize their greatness. Leveraging more than two decades of experience as a corporate leader, he is consistently sought out for leadership consulting and strategy development by large and small organizations alike. During his tenure in corporate America, he was known for turnaround outcomes, developing leaders and executive influence. Milton earned his MBA from St. Mary’s University of Minnesota and is a Trust Edge Certified Coach.

Milton’s Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miltondodd/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/milton_dodd/

Key Quotes:
1. “The winds of change is undefeated.”
2. “In leadership, you are never going to be able to avoid challenges.”
3. “You have to be consistent in your efforts.”
4. “Be a student of the business that you’re a part of.”
5. “How do you put yourself aside and attend to the needs of the one that you’re leading.”
6. “You learn from what you listen to.”
7. “Empower your team to do the things neccesary without you being there.”
8. “There’s great talent all around you.”
9. “Activity is not a singular process.”
10. “Leadership, like a stone dropped in a body of water, ripples well beyond the entry point.”
11. “Leadership is still about activity and results.”
12. “The only way you can change your perspective is by being involved in something that makes you uncomfortable.”
13. “What can I do to effectuate change where I am today?”
14. “True leaders really see things in others that they can’t very well see in themselves.”
15. “As a leader our job is to take good care of the people that we are entrusted to lead.”
16. “If you have a thought, write it down.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks: https://amzn.to/3bnvtXy
Rites of Passage: https://www.ropmpls.org/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
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Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it is great daddy here. You’re going to love our guest. We went inside on this.

David Horsager: He’s been a corporate leader, but he’s also run our consulting practice for the last year in the midst of

David Horsager: coven and all kinds of other challenges. He’s also interim director operations director for an organization. He is just he’s, he’s a friend and he is a brilliant leader. I’m glad to have you here. Mr. Milton Dodd.

Milton Dodd: Hey, David. Thanks. So glad to be on your trusted leader show today.

David Horsager: Well, I can tell you. Here’s someone I can say he’s made me better and personally better. So we’re grateful to have you on. But, you know, for people that don’t know you. Melton, let’s jump in. What are a few things to know about Milton Dodd.

Milton Dodd: Well, you know, it’s really hard to kind of bragging yourself, but you know, one of the things that I will say about me is

Milton Dodd: I have a passion for leadership. And that started at an early age. I grew up in a very small town very humble beginnings

Milton Dodd: In a small town most won’t know called bells on a Mississippi, but it’s known for being the catfish capital.

Milton Dodd: Of the world. And I think those grid beginnings and where I learned my leadership from my mother, who was a school principal in the in this town of only one school

Milton Dodd: And then being able to branch out and really moved to Minnesota and to broaden my perspective by meeting other coaches and being around other people

Milton Dodd: So in you know in my professional life for last 24 years I was part of a great organization. I took a turn and took an opportunity to pivot at the beginning of this year and it’s been fun. Ever since, well,

David Horsager: Let’s go back to corporate because you are part of big corporate and you were really, you know, asked in those days to

David Horsager: Do in some cases pretty significant turnarounds and dealing with tough issues.

David Horsager: And as a leader you had to, you had to hire, but you had to fire you had to do things the right way. And I remember one story that you have where

David Horsager: You really were trusted even in the way. And when you had to lay people off. But what, what was it like to kind of be a part of that turn on. How did you stay trusted the midst of having to turn something around sometimes tough.

Milton Dodd: You know, it’s always tough when you take a look at in any organization. There’s always going to be abs and flows, there’s gonna be change.

Milton Dodd: The winds of change doesn’t is it affects every organizations is the winds of change is undefeated.

Milton Dodd: And in my role, I was really called on to handle some very tough topics I think or challenges I think because of the way that I managed it. I always worked or or when I when I approached

Milton Dodd: leadership challenges, whether they were something that you know whether we were expanding territories or contracted territories.

Milton Dodd: I always approached him with the people in mind, and I tried to get into the mindset of those people

Milton Dodd: Who were being affected affected adversely and really showed a high level of respect for them as we walk through the challenges that we all face. I remember one particular story.

Milton Dodd: When I was had to do had have had a very challenging.

Milton Dodd: Opportunity and at the end of the conversation that the young man, thank me. And he thanked me because not because of the situation, but because of the way I approached him and I think in leadership.

Milton Dodd: You’re never going to fall away or be able to avoid challenges and innocent innocent in the way that you

Milton Dodd: Put yourself in the mindset of the people and really show respect to them throughout it is is is allows you to become a better leader for them and for the situation at hand.

David Horsager: I love that. And we’re going to get back to it to personal leadership, too. But I think we were thinking about, you know, your public role, your corporate role, some of your leadership roles of big companies. I know you helped us

David Horsager: Really building trust with a with a global pharmaceutical organization that’s that’s that’s building trust in the midst of, of, you know, the global challenges or recent merger and all that. But when you have to, you know, when you have to hold people accountable.

Milton Dodd: Yeah, I mean,

David Horsager: You have any tips on how do you actually stay trusted or build trust in the midst of this challenge of how having to have healthy accountability. I mean, any quick tips for that.

Milton Dodd: I think it starts with consistency, which is, you know, one of the pillars, you know, you have to be consistent.

Milton Dodd: In your efforts and you know in sales. When I lead an organization of 135 people in the total organization. We had KPIs. We have key performance indicators.

Milton Dodd: That we managed to but I think the first step is in when you’re talking about holding people accountable.

Milton Dodd: You have to first understand what you’re holding them accountable to so you have buy in from what you’ve agreed to. And that’s the mission. That’s the strategy is the vision as the objectives of the organization.

Milton Dodd: And then from there you have the, you know, you have your check ins and you have ways to ensure that what the team is doing is on target on par with what you agreed on.

Milton Dodd: And that makes it. I forget how the manager said to me one time, but he said there is

Milton Dodd: There is great ease in managing to performance when you have specific indicators to measure their performance. And I think in some cases with companies have strategy to ensure

Milton Dodd: You don’t really have the opportunity to lead in the right way because you don’t have those measures in place to ensure that the team understands what they’re to do on a daily basis in order to be successful.

David Horsager: So let’s go a little bit granular because this is all about trust, I mean that there’s all kinds of levels of trust, but let. There’s a lot of people today.

David Horsager: That have gone virtual in your day as leading an organization, leading the sales part of an organization, you often worked in the same city as them. But you had to, you had to lead them. So whether you

David Horsager: Lead them virtually because you had to her phone calls are flying in once in a while and checking on things or people today. Let’s take sales specifically

David Horsager: That they that we want to trust that salesperson is doing what they’re supposed to be doing virtually, what would be let’s get to agreed upon KPIs are there certain measures is it you know it’s probably different for organizations this many calls or this may this but

David Horsager: We’re kind of things are we looking at to measure on and how often do we need to check in.

Milton Dodd: Sure you know in in today’s world, you know, when I started with the organization, I would say, you know, it was a weekly check in would be okay.

Milton Dodd: Because they’re the measurements were pretty easy and and now is just becomes so complicated with what teams have to do from an activity standpoint, in order to be successful and measuring that activity.

Milton Dodd: Is probably the most important thing when it comes to KPIs today because we know the activity leads to sales and the activity also Lisa sustain relationships.

Milton Dodd: And I think it’s more of a daily check in. When you think about CRM like Salesforce or HubSpot or any of the number of ones that are out there.

Milton Dodd: You know, the important thing is to have something where you can edit glance. Make sure that the activity is happening as a leader in order to grow sales based on the mission, vision and strategy you have

David Horsager: I love it. I love this activity leads to sales and activity builds relationship. That’s the consistency piece.


David Horsager: So if you’re looking for a great sales, like maybe we even back out to you. What are some sales tips.

David Horsager: That you might have like this work for you to to get we’re all in sales. Right. It doesn’t matter for leadership management we want we want to sell a message we want to sell impact we want to sell a product, we want to sell a mission or a, you know,

David Horsager: Yeah, people believe something today. What, what, what are the other any kind of tips for people that build trust by doing this, or just that this sales tip work. This activity is something I really looked for loved when I found this in one of my team.

Milton Dodd: You sure you know i. So let’s I’ll break it up into different places.

Milton Dodd: You know when I’m thinking about a team member, especially when you’re interviewing and you’re trying to find someone to come alongside in the organization to help move the organization forward. You really look for a passion.

Milton Dodd: A passion for sales and then you want to make sure that the person has a passion for the product or service that you’re asking them to be a part of.

Milton Dodd: And if you can combine those two things, then I think you can be very successful. I just think of

Milton Dodd: When I when I joined your team, or when I worked or as I’m working with Genesis works. The first thing I had to do and I till I try to explain this to especially up and comers or even leaders.

Milton Dodd: Be a student of the business that you’re part of and that means understanding the competition.

Milton Dodd: Understanding the products and services you offer understanding what your value proposition is and those things allow you to be more confident

Milton Dodd: When you’re selling the product and then you’re not selling. You’re just presenting an opportunity for someone to join a very good up or you presented an opportunity for someone to join your organization through the product or service that you offer and I think

Milton Dodd: That way it makes it a lot simpler for people to digest what you’re

Milton Dodd: Sharing with them. And then it also makes makes it easy for them to do business with you. You know, I think of the opportunity that we recently had with one of the organizations that we’re working with.

Milton Dodd: And it was more about a conversation and really delving in and understanding what their needs are and then tailoring your solution to that particular need.

David Horsager: Boy, more and more everything’s got to be contextualize right you want. We want our burger. Our way we want our this. You can’t just stamp it out and say it’s going to be like this and you’re getting pickles and catch it no matter what. It’s got to be

David Horsager: I want my burger my way and this trust stuff and that project you’re talking about, hey, we’ve seen something amazing change.

David Horsager: But

David Horsager: We spent all use I should say a lot of time listening and learning and seeing how can we apply this trust work to them in a way that will hit their KPIs and make a difference in their context.

Milton Dodd: You know, it’s so true. And I think that’s very important because

Milton Dodd: I, you know, I’ve been involved with organizations. And then we’ve seen people come in to help to help our organization moving in a certain direction or to help our organization.

Milton Dodd: Achieve a certain goal. And I think the one key component that we missed some time is the Listening component

Milton Dodd: Kind of like, okay, taking your own ego and sending to the side and trying to get into the mindset of the people that you’re serving

Milton Dodd: So that can be if you’re a consultant that could be the group that you’re consulting with

Milton Dodd: If your leader within an organization that could be the team that you’re leading if it’s your family. That could be your children. So all of those things. It’s a consistent effort around how do you

Milton Dodd: Put yourself aside in attend to the needs of the one that you’re leading so that you can present the best solution for that.

David Horsager: So, and I know you and I know that this listening is a big deal for you and

David Horsager: That you

David Horsager: You kind of have four L’s that you go by.

David Horsager: Yes, tell, tell me about what were those inspired and what are they so people hear this because it’s it’s a great mantra for leadership.

Milton Dodd: Well, you know, a lot of the things you learn to do as a leader is sometimes is is it’s the is the is anti to what you received as it from your leadership.

Milton Dodd: And so one of the things I learned very early on in my career is the importance of listening in as a leader when I think about

Milton Dodd: mission and vision and strategy. What a leader should do is listen for listen for the fact that the team understands what the mission or the vision that they’ve laid out for that particular team.

Milton Dodd: And you hear that through. I think what you say. Sometimes David is the common language within the organization. Are you establishing a common language through listening.

Milton Dodd: Through listening to what your team is saying, and also tying it to the mission and making sure it ties to your mission and vision.

Milton Dodd: And then I think the other thing as a leader is about listening is to demonstrate your listening through your actions.

Milton Dodd: So when you have an opportunity or you’re looking to push for us a vision for the organization. Make sure that you’re demonstrating that you heard them.

Milton Dodd: And that you’re presenting a collaborative environment as you are moving towards greater heights for the organization. Now, that doesn’t mean that each and every time.

Milton Dodd: You have to acquiesce to the the winds of the team, but it also but it is important to rich really try to truly understand what their needs are and then provide the tools and resources for them.

David Horsager: So that’s, that’s the listening L, you’ve got you’ve got three more else

David Horsager: Do you go by and leadership.

Milton Dodd: And then you and then you need to learn, you know, especially toy cove. I think we learned a lot. I think all of us have learned a lot. I think

Milton Dodd: You know leaders today has really have really had to really kind of break the mold of what they were used to and you learn from what you you listen to, or you learn from what you glean from your team and that may mean pivoting that may mean stepping outside of

Milton Dodd: Of stepping outside of the box that you may have normally stayed with them.

Milton Dodd: And I think that leaders that listen and then apply that through learning have a better opportunity to push their teams to greater heights and then you’re talking about leading and now leading is

Milton Dodd: Just that it is stepping back and allowing your team to thrive by pointing in the right direction and then allowing them to move in that direction, providing the tools, providing the resources, removing the roadblocks, helping them make decisions in order

Milton Dodd: In order to reach their journey. And then the last thing I think sometimes when you have that person.

Milton Dodd: Who is ready to branch out and be a leader themselves. You have to find the, you have to find a way to let go. And that’s that empowerment piece.

Milton Dodd: empower your team to do the things necessary without you being there or absent of you being there, such that they can grow and learn to be leaders themselves.

David Horsager: I love it. So listen, learn lead and let go to questions come to mind right away. What did you learn, personally, as a leader you know in this last nine months or or in the last year of coven

Milton Dodd: You know, I think the thing I learned most is there’s great talent all around you, and I think that needs to acknowledging you need to acknowledge the people around you and really delve into what their

Milton Dodd: What their opportunities are but more importantly what they’re very good at, you know, I’m reading a book right now called the

Milton Dodd: The big leap by gay. Hendricks and it talks about their zone of genius and their ability to do that. One thing that’s great and allowing them to do that.

Milton Dodd: And and as a leader coming alongside them and nurturing them. Um, you know, I’ve really in my most recent role and I gained appreciation for really

Milton Dodd: I really enjoy teaching the next generation in an organization that I’m currently with

Milton Dodd: Or working with we we have a number of millennials in there still searching for what it is that that that that makes them special within the organization and I love coming alongside them and helping them kind of calling that out and then challenging them to reach those greater heights.

David Horsager: I love it. And let’s do one more time. As you go to let go. I think a lot of leaves. I think I’ve had challenges with this and

David Horsager: And but you think of that group that you’re leading with millennials, or you think of just, you know, back to all the national sales teams. You’ve led and whatnot.

David Horsager: Is there any more, as far as tips on accountability or anything you’ve learned about this this millennial group you’re leading largely or

David Horsager: Just any thing else on accountability, because I think you know we have a lot of leaders like

David Horsager: Yeah, I can just empower people empower people empower people and I’m empowering them and then they’re going off the cliff, the wrong direction. So how do I balance that empowerment with healthy accountability, any, any tips.

Milton Dodd: Well, I think that’s the thing, David. It’s not when when I say let go. It’s not like you know it’s a child so

Milton Dodd: As you as your child grows, you tend to a lot of the do certain things, but you’d never you never fully let go of them right. You’re always there. Like, like guide rails.

Milton Dodd: On a on a road with two with a cliff. I mean, you’re there to ensure that they don’t go off that

Milton Dodd: proverbial cliff. But, you know, by checking in with them and staying in tune with them. I don’t mean let go. In a sense of, Okay, you got it. Move on, or

Milton Dodd: Okay, I’m going to stand back at 30,000 feet the entire time. You know, that’s why those KPIs are in place to ensure that one. The activity stays there.

Milton Dodd: Such that the the results can be there as well. So let go means you stay close enough to give them time to sway right or left, but they don’t go over that proverbial edge because you’re the guide rails as a leader.

David Horsager: Do you have any thinking about this. Do you have habits as a leader. I’m getting personal we talked about

David Horsager: A little things done consistently make the biggest difference. Whether it’s personal or at work. What, what do you have any personal routines or habits that like I do this because this if I don’t do this consistently for myself. I’m not as good.

Milton Dodd: Yeah, you know, it probably come out of more of my habits doing covidien and having a more unstructured schedule. But when I was in my in a very structured environment. I spent a lot of time one taking a look at it.

Milton Dodd: As a sales leader I spend a lot of time one taking a look at the numbers and really trying to figure out a way to share those in a manner that’s digestible to the team.

Milton Dodd: That you’re leading. I mean, when you look at an organization where I had 110 million dollars and 107 hundred sales people.

Milton Dodd: You know, I had to break it down, such that they could digest what I’m trying to share with them and the strategy or the mission for the week, if you will, the mission sometimes for that particular day

Milton Dodd: So, spending time really understanding the information, such that

Milton Dodd: You’ll be you become less. It’s not a novel for them to read, but you become the leader that provides them the cliff notes so they can get just enough to start the process of moving forward for that mission or vision that you have for them.

David Horsager: And your MBA, not to stay in the number so to

David Horsager: Speak Yeah, long, but your MBA was in data analytics, if I recall

David Horsager: What what number should we be looking for, I don’t know whether it’s in business or life. What, what kind of numbers in a salesperson what we what are a few numbers that you think these are the common KPIs that really everybody in whatever role should be thinking about

Milton Dodd: Sure. When I think of sales in particular sales is activity when I you know in in the organization.

Milton Dodd: That I worked for we dealt with schools and we spent a lot of times trying to penetrate the market and gain market share. And the only way we able to do that was have sales activity on a daily basis that led to the

Milton Dodd: Results that we were looking for. So that’s the first thing is how many calls does a salesperson make depending on the industry. It changes.

Milton Dodd: If you know if you are cold calling is going to be hundreds of calls in a given day.

Milton Dodd: If you’re more strategic and you’re looking for one calls and you have leads, it may be just, you know, it may be 10 or 15 depending on the market that you’re in, but

Milton Dodd: In our world, we look for somewhere between 10 to 15 quality calls on a given day to help us reach our goals.

Milton Dodd: And we, you know, it’s one thing to have a an activity. It’s another thing to have details behind that activity. So you have activity. And then you have more qualified activity with more details to help you understand that we’re actually moving through the sales process and right way.

Milton Dodd: You can have a visit. And then you can have a quality visit and then you have a quality visit with the contact with a decision maker. And then from there, you either set up a meeting.

Milton Dodd: That you share the product or services that you’re offering and then you move it to close. So sometimes it can be a five or six step activity process before you get to that close.

Milton Dodd: But the most important thing you can do as a leader is understand the interim steps it takes and then ensure that you’re watching each of those steps and challenging them along the way activity is not a singular process is probably what I’ll say

David Horsager: Absolutely we in our, in our most transactional you everything from consulting and enterprise trust index and coaching all the things we do here. The most transactional thing probably is.

David Horsager: Transactional offering is speaking right me going in and keynote at an event. And we have a process that has over 30 points touch points for one speech.

David Horsager: To make sure it’s consistent and valuable at all the way to follow up and thank you and all that. So, because all those can lead to more be part of the sales process. But of course, the beginning of that is

David Horsager: Equipped you know really salespeople are educators to it’s like if we’re not a fit. We don’t have either right

Milton Dodd: So,

Milton Dodd: You know, more than anything else, your, your, your consultant, you can consultative selling is probably the most thing best way I can say it. And the other thing is that when you have a process and you close business.

Milton Dodd: If you make it easy for them to do business with you, how likely is it for them to share your

Milton Dodd: Sure, who you are and what you do with others. Yep. And I think that’s the thing that people don’t understand some time is is it’s a transactional relationship, but it’s a relationship. Nonetheless, absolutely.

David Horsager: Love it. Well, you love this quote. Tell me, tell me how it inspires you and I even put it up, leadership, like a stone dropped in a body of water ripples well beyond the entry point.

Milton Dodd: Well, you think about it. I mean, you take a stone. I mean, you know, you live out there next to a lake, and you

Milton Dodd: Don’t know your kids and you’d probably throw rocks in the water, you know, once you throw that rocket and water is it ripples ripples.

Milton Dodd: North, South, East, and West. And I think leadership, good or bad can do just that, you know, when you are

Milton Dodd: I think of the leaders in my lifetime, the people that you know I think of Jan Hague, for example, that gave me the opportunity

Milton Dodd: Many years ago, and the ripple effect that she had with me is still lasting today it on how I approach things how I treat people how I lead

Milton Dodd: In, you know, Jan was one that lead with empathy and compassion, you know of a leader, but she was also very tough on us.

Milton Dodd: As we were going through this up the leadership program. And I just think that’s, that’s probably the genesis of where I came up with that, quote, because I think of man. The, the ripple effect of what she did with me.

Milton Dodd: Now affects how I lead and over the 24 years I was with that organization. How many people I’ve touched. So that’s what I that’s why I say it ripples well beyond the entry point because that entry point back in 1995 is still affecting people today.

David Horsager: And you know, we talked a lot about how you know how we are, how we lead ourselves matters like personally, how am I leading myself because we want to be, in essence, the same onstage and off you know you’ve got

David Horsager: Our beautiful kids over there and amazing wife. That’s brilliant.

David Horsager: And, you know, what do you do to kind of keep yourself imperfect as we are, how do you, how do you lead yourself personally what any ideas there.

Milton Dodd: You know, I think it gets back to what what are the it gets back to the outcomes. So again, input. Yeah, I think you said a lot, David, and yet we’re in your work input versus output.

Milton Dodd: And you know, I was reading an article by a guy named Jeff Perry recently he said your leadership style is made up of who you are.

Milton Dodd: How you grew up some of us grew up with. Very Meager beginnings, like I did some it without a mom without a mom and dad in a home, my mom died early on when I when I was younger and then some of us grew up with a family around us, but each eat no matter which way we grew up those those

Milton Dodd: That affects how you lead people and my outcome for my children is I want to be around for them because I didn’t have that when I was

Milton Dodd: When I was younger, so I didn’t have certain things when I was younger. So I want to strive to show them a different world than I had

Milton Dodd: Or I want to be there as a father because my father figure wasn’t in the picture with me. So it’s really about the activity that I do to really change the narrative around how I felt.

Milton Dodd: My what was missing in my leadership journey as I was younger to affect their leadership journey as their as they start to get into their formative years

Milton Dodd: I mean, I have a 17 year old. He’s a senior next year, he goes out into the world. And so I want to make sure that he how he treats people is indicative of how he learned how to be treated at home. I have a middle daughter who’s 13

Milton Dodd: I want to understand. I want her to understand that when she goes out into the world and meets a young man. I want her to see how

Milton Dodd: She should be treated by the way of my interaction with her and then I have a five year old, you know. And in the same way a five year old son, where I have to do the same thing with him as I did with my oldest son so

Milton Dodd: That’s, that’s probably the best way I’ll say it is leadership is still about activity and results, whether you’re a family man.

Milton Dodd: Or a family person or in a business or an entrepreneur or consultant. It doesn’t matter. Whatever your activity is is going to lead to some result. And it’s just a matter of what result, would you like it to be.

David Horsager: Tell us, you know, this brings up another PERSONAL SIDE OF YOU THAT I’VE SEEN be amazing. And that’s some of your

David Horsager: Giving work and mentoring work and I know you’re a part of an organization where you’re really not this where your interim operations director right now, but also really your, your work with young men and mentorship. Tell us a little bit about that and why you got involved.

Milton Dodd: Yeah, well, I’m not involved. This year, because my son is a part of the program. And that’s going to take a year off when their sons are in the program, but the program is called rice. The past that she

Milton Dodd: IS SPONSORED BY JACK and Jill has been around for I think 23 years now and for the time that I’ve been in Minneapolis back in Minneapolis is 2012 I’ve been involved in it.

Milton Dodd: Started out as a mentor and then over the last six years I was the coach here helping to shape the program with the help of a number of businessman without within the Twin Cities.

Milton Dodd: And I think the thing that again that drives me to be involved with things like that is somewhat of what I wish I had when I was growing up.

Milton Dodd: And then the other part of it is you want to ensure getting back to the guardrail analogy that these kids are college bound and you want to make sure ensure

Milton Dodd: That they have the opportunity to stay within those guardrails, and not fall off the cliff when they go to school and to make good decisions.

Milton Dodd: Around relationships to make good decisions around study habits to make good decisions around potentially a mate, that they choose. So

Milton Dodd: That’s that’s the reason I got involved is to just be that extra ear for those kids who have the opportunity, or will have the opportunity to affect the world in the future.

David Horsager: And I saw the graduation of your son and what an amazing powerful experience as far as how that whole you know program plays out and your

Leadership there.

David Horsager: You know this year has in the last year, you know, racial tension has been brought to the surface and again and you know and I know it’s it’s it’s always been here.

David Horsager: But what’s it as as a leader of color to all of us. What do we have to learn what could we learn as far as being high trust leaders in the midst of these tensions, how can we be high trust leaders.

You know,

Milton Dodd: I think the first step. And I put out a little video. Some time ago when everything kind of hit the fan. And as I said,

Milton Dodd: The goal is not necessarily to change the people around you. The goal is to change your perspective. And the only way you can change your perspective is by being involved in something that makes you uncomfortable.

Milton Dodd: And I think this flashpoint with the murder of George Floyd, it made a lot of people uncomfortable. And I think a lot of people stood up and said, I just had enough. I’ve had enough of this and

Milton Dodd: That has to come from inside. I don’t think there’s anything that a person can do to really change how you think that has to come from you doing some soul searching to say

Milton Dodd: I don’t like what’s going on and I, as a leader, whether I’m in a small business, a medium sized business, a large business. What can I do to effectuate change where I am today.

Milton Dodd: And if that means I need to be more culturally diverse and employing people i need to do that. And I need to do that with a level of intention.

Milton Dodd: If I need to stand up and have a conversation, whether I’m in the boardroom of the clubhouse because someone says something that’s not true, or someone says something that’s demeaning, I need to stand up and do that and plant that seed.

Milton Dodd: So I think that’s the difference is what do you what how do you want to be represented and then what are you going to do in order to represent yourself in a manner that makes you look in the mirror.

Milton Dodd: And feel like you’ve done something to effectuate positive change in your community and you don’t have to have a leadership title to do that. You just have to be a person who cares.

David Horsager: Oh. One thing I’ve seen you do is have healthy conversations like be willing to have tough conversations and do them well and with respect, you know, I, I’ve often said this. One of the most important attributes of a leader, actually, is the willingness to have tough conversations

Milton Dodd: Sure, but

David Horsager: Any tips for the leaders listening on how to have healthy difficult conversations

Milton Dodd: I think you just said it, you have to start

Milton Dodd: You know, when things get uncomfortable. And I’m going to just speak for me. Sometimes when things get get uncomfortable for me. I tried it, like, yeah, I’m not gonna deal with that right now. I’m going to shy away from that at this particular moment and I think

Milton Dodd: It’s time for people to stop shying away from those conversations and then just

Milton Dodd: Just taking a chance, leaning in. You know you and I have had some conversations around how things worked when when George floor was murdered.

Milton Dodd: And how I felt versus how you felt and how the people around us felt, and I think that just by starting at that point in having a conversation where there’s nothing to prove nothing to gain. We just want to talk.

Milton Dodd: And I often tell people that I’m mentoring is you’re over 21. Now it’s time to have adult conversations and adult conversation sometimes mean we’re going to challenge the status quo.

Milton Dodd: Or we’re going to lean in some topics that not only makes the person that we’re talking to uncomfortable. It might very well make us uncomfortable. Yeah.

David Horsager: I remember that we both said, well, how you feeling today and we wrote it down on a piece of paper and turn it over. We both said

David Horsager: misunderstood. Yeah.


David Horsager: Well, let’s go to this you know you’re working with teams, you’re leading teams, you’ve certainly had leadership role here. How do you motivate others these days. What, what are some ways. If you’ve got to motivate a team or an individual, what do you do

Milton Dodd: Well, I think the regardless of where they are in their career. I think in a lot of cases leaders, for the most part are visionaries.

Milton Dodd: And I think true leaders really see things and others that they can’t very well see in themselves.

Milton Dodd: And the thing that I try to do whether I’m talking to a leader in a C suite or a entry level employee, it is if I see something one you have to ask for them. I think you should ask for permission to call it out or ask for permission to give them feedback.

Milton Dodd: And then once they’re okay. And they and you demystify what it is to give them feedback, then you call whatever it is that you see out of them.

Milton Dodd: And you say, you know, David, what I see in you is XYZ, David, what I see in you is the ability to really connect well with people and then you you and then you ask them for permission to come alongside them to help them to shape that particular

Milton Dodd: That to shape that particular attribute that you’ve called out of them. And I think that’s it. I’ve said it, you know, people ask me a lot of a lot of times that is

Milton Dodd: A leader should call out what they see, ask for permission.

Milton Dodd: Call out what they see and then come alongside that person to help them to shore up that opportunity that may have or to really strengthen that strength that they may not even be aware of.

Milton Dodd: A lot of times we as leaders don’t take the time to do that because we have all of these conflicting parties. We have to grow sales, we have to have this certain activity we have someone looking over our shoulder. For this we have cross functional teams we have matrix.

Milton Dodd: Organizations, we gotta, we gotta play well into the sandbox, but are at the end of the day, as a leader. Our job is to take good care of the people that we are a trusted to lead at that given moment.

David Horsager: You know, my wife calls that see the good say the good share the good

David Horsager: And, of course, that doesn’t get on the accountability side, but she said, we just, you’ve got to see the good more and then say the good in that person and then share that good, you know, so see the good say the good share the good is is can be a part of that I think

Milton Dodd: Yeah. You know, I think what my wife would also say is you can’t you can’t overthink or over overthink of what the how the person is going to respond because she would say there’s three R’s. They either receive it.

Milton Dodd: They rejected or repurpose it. And I think that’s so important to is that you know don’t hold back because you never know.

Milton Dodd: If you’re robbing somebody have an opportunity to get better at something or if you Robin and person have an opportunity to show up for strength shore up a string. So you want to be. You want to be bold as a leader and to help them find their true north


David Horsager: That’s great. What do you hope for in the future if you’re hoping thinking ahead. What’s your biggest hope for the future that you’re thinking about down the road.

Milton Dodd: You know, I, I really just hope that people

Milton Dodd: Embrace the opportunity that we’ve had to have a lot of self reflection through this unfortunate process called coronavirus

Milton Dodd: Or covert 19 and and to utilize those learnings as they come out of this environment in a positive manner to help others. I think that is so important. And in a lot of ways.

Milton Dodd: The examples that we’ve had for leadership should be the determinant of how we approach life, it should be the adverse it should be less, learn from what we see, and then become a better version of what we see.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Well, I would love to talk all day to you and I so appreciate you and I’m proud of just the work that you do and let’s go. It’s time for the lightning round. Are you ready for quick answers.

David Horsager: Okay. All right, here we

Milton Dodd: Are in and over again and let’s go

David Horsager: It wouldn’t go we’re getting into lightning round, it’s time. Milton Dodds

All right.

David Horsager: All right, so number one. What is your favorite current book or resource.

Milton Dodd: My favorite current, current book right now is the big leap.

Milton Dodd: You know by gay. Hendricks, it talks about, you know, conquering the hidden fear and taking life to the next level. Staying into your zone of genius. Check it out.

David Horsager: If you have any quick tip like hey leaders for productivity or for leading they could apply tomorrow morning. Any quick tip or idea that you haven’t shared so far.

Milton Dodd: If you have a thought. Write it down. I think you know I’m not the best edit. But I think Journaling is underrated.

David Horsager: Absolutely. All right. What’s something you can’t live without.


That’s true.

David Horsager: What is a quote you live by. You already shared that today the ripple effect. Any other quotes your big thoughts or banners that go through your head all the time to kind of keep you centered or motivated

Milton Dodd: It is, I don’t know if it’s a cool, but it’s a quote from a, from a song. So I guess it is a quote no complaints no regrets. I still believe in chasing dreams and placing bets.

David Horsager: There we go.

David Horsager: So, what a great conversation with Milton, how would you best be reached if we’re going to look out for Milton dot and the things you’re thinking about talking about writing about posting, where’s the best place to reach you.

Milton Dodd: You know, typically, if I’m posting something it’s mostly on Instagram. My name is it is what my name. Milton died or you can find me on LinkedIn and Milton DOD as well.

David Horsager: Do DD

David Horsager: DD Milton DOD

David Horsager: We own it with Dr. MD.

David Horsager: Message God

Milton Dodd: I’ve been mistaken for a doctor several times.

David Horsager: He fixes things and cultures and people, and definitely builds trust along the way so

David Horsager: For anything that was mentioned the book you mentioned some of those quotes in any of the the LinkedIn or Instagram. You can also go to trusted leader show.com everything will be there for you. Thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you next time, keep building trust.

Ep. 9: Justin Flom on Why You Should Chase Success Instead of Your Passion

In this episode, David sits down with Justin Flom, social media star, magician, and global entertainer, to discuss why you should chase success instead of your passions.

Justin’s Bio:
Justin Flom has a magical life. From touring with Country Superstars Florida Georgia Line and creating magic for companies and artists including Coca-Cola, Hobby Lobby, and the entire Seattle Seahawks team, John Legend, Nick Jonas, and Chrissy Teigen, Flom finds himself in front of as diverse an audience as any entertainer. His tours take him to buildings like Madison Square Garden to mega-churches across the US. Since 2020’s pandemic, Justin has been viewed over 4 billion times with a total career pivot to online content. In the weeks leading up to the election, Justin Flom was one of the top 5 Facebook pages with the highest worldwide reach even beating Donald Trump and Fox News.

Justin’s Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/justinflomofficial
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justinflom/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/justinflom/featured
Website: https://www.justinflom.com/
“Everyday Magic for Kids” by Justin Flom: https://amzn.to/3k2ZIHk

Key Quotes:
1. “Being a magician, you are an honest deceiver.”
2. “Nothing I create is precious.”
3. “Time is the most precious commodity I have.”
4. “You will be passionate about what you are successful in.”
5. “You want to be flexible with where you put the things that you enjoy.”
6. “Don’t break the chain.” – Jerry Seinfeld
7. “Finish bad songs.” – John Mayer
8. “I want to showcase real life.”
9. “You don’t know if you’re following your passion if that’s the right way. Really you should be following success.”
10. “Finish strong.” Mr. Sheahan
11. “Most people don’t care about you.”
12. “I don’t want to be the smartest guy in the room.”
13. “Burn the ships. If you have a backup plan, you’ll use it.” – Bill Arnold
14. “I would prefer to give the audience what they want.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big” by Scott Adams: https://amzn.to/3bfuR6w
“Maximum Entertainment 2.0” by Ken Weber: https://amzn.to/3s2WK8z
Book Stand for Desk: https://amzn.to/3dp26a7
“The Ride of a Lifetime” by Bob Iger: https://amzn.to/3k048yC

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer and I am I am so excited I say this a lot, but I am so excited about this guest.

David Horsager: He is a friend. I’ve known him for a long time. His name is Justin flom I got to tell you about him. You might have seen him on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. You might have seen him as a star and

David Horsager: Wizard wars or other shows his own, you know, YouTube TV show. This is fascinating right now. Justin was one of the top five Facebook pages with the highest worldwide reach even beating Donald Trump and Fox News.

David Horsager: weeks leading up to the election. So, it’s amazing. But you know what I like is Justin is the same as we say onstage and offstage, he’s a down to earth guy and a brilliant innovator and Justin. I’m just thrilled to have you on

Justin Flom: Thank you so much. Well, we go back decades, you and I, and this is going to be a very fun conversation. I’m looking forward to

David Horsager: It is, in fact, your dad credits me with helping lead up to one of your biggest mistakes in

David Horsager: Your career.

Justin Flom: Yeah, it is, it is your fault. That’s right.

David Horsager: I think, I think I was even named as the executive producer very kindly at the time on your show.

David Horsager: Their grandson, but boy, have you done a lot since then.

David Horsager: What let’s start out with what you know what are, what are three things everybody that’s listening today should know about Justin, they might know of you, or even see you but just

Justin Flom: Give us a

David Horsager: Sense, you know, Justin.

Justin Flom: That’s a good place to start. I guess the top three things are is at one point I would have considered myself a magician.

Justin Flom: And now, whatever. I consider myself doesn’t really matter. But during pandemic. I’ve had the chance to be in front of about 4 billion eyeballs.

Justin Flom: And that’s billion with a B which is just bonkers. To me totally crazy. And yeah, you might have seen me on daytime TV or late night TV or maybe even

Justin Flom: Man, I was in a Super Bowl commercial two years ago, leading up to this big reveal of a show called world’s best and was a finalist on that show which doesn’t matter as much because it never it tanked. It didn’t do any anything beyond the first season, but now I get to

Justin Flom: Create video content online and once pandemic is over, assuming everything goes back to normal. We’ll go back on the road where I work with companies like Walmart and Heineken Dollar General

Justin Flom: Benefit cosmetics, all of these different things where I create magic to share messages for companies and I also do the same thing in churches.

David Horsager: Sure, and you’re doing it online. You’re you’ve done it live. I’ve seen you. You’re amazing something nobody knows I guess I’ll reveal it today, but

Justin Flom: Yeah.

David Horsager: I talk about trust, and some of you don’t know that 20 some years ago. I actually was mentored by one of the best magical loosen teachers in the world. I did shows half times of NBA games and

David Horsager: 54 shows and in 27 days in Japan. At one point, but you and I were kind of interested in it in a similar time

Justin Flom: And I think it’s a it’s a fascinating part to the conversation because you have a background.

Justin Flom: Way, way back years ago as a magician. And same thing for me. But more recently, but, you know, since 2020 has been such a crazy year

Justin Flom: Magic has really taken a backseat, and the freedom that I feel is incredible. We haven’t talked at all during 2020 and and you I think you’d be fascinated to know because

Justin Flom: I mean, when I was sharing with you. I was obsessed with magic tricks card tricks deception, all of it and really almost to the point where

Justin Flom: I don’t care what else matters. I just wanted the best magic and that focus allowed me to do things like The Ellen Show and James Corden and and Late Night with Seth Meyers and things like that, but

Justin Flom: Since then kind of breaking away from just the magic and focusing on storytelling or entertainment or any of any of these other things that I’m doing now.

Justin Flom: The freedom is intoxicating. It is so cool. And so much fun to stretch my wings and do things beyond just magic tricks and it’s been quite a learning year. It’s very cool.

David Horsager: Well, I want. I want to hear more about that, but because I just kind of unveiled myself and nobody that I work with knows I ever did those things, you know,

David Horsager: That I don’t know if I was bored and some college calculus class. So I was started vanishing you know 50 cent pieces in my own hand or what

David Horsager: But I think it is interesting for both of us. Because you know out of the Institute, we do one of the biggest pieces of research on trust and leadership at least that North Americans global study

David Horsager: A whole we do here is you know our whole mission is about building trust and leaders and organizations we work with everything from corruption issues in East Africa to, you know, pro sports teams to business, but I think you and I do have a special angle on trust.

Justin Flom: And in fish to

David Horsager: People don’t get you’ll understand this, but actually to be a good magician. You have to be exceptional at building trust.

Justin Flom: Yes, very much so.

Justin Flom: Yeah, that’s true. You know a lot of people say that in within magic, the magic being a magician. You are an honest deceiver, because you tell the audience are going to lie to them and then you do

Justin Flom: It’s, it’s sort of a pact that you have with the audience where we’ve said, all right, so within these rules. I’m going to do a lot of lying and deception.

Justin Flom: And you’re going to trust me not to break kind of these rules that we have these unsaid unspoken rules of a magician with an audience. So once you’ve built up that trust.

Justin Flom: Then you can, you know, deceive for fun. It’s the same trust that we have built in with Hollywood or with TV where we understand

Justin Flom: That they’re going to deceive us with camera tricks and and you know we know that Steven Spielberg didn’t find dinosaurs. Those are fake and we trust him to take us through a deceptive.

Justin Flom: sort of journey for entertainment. So magic is kind of that. And I think what’s really fun is is seeing

Justin Flom: How its evolving with this new generation of social media where things are, are moving quite fast and the secrets of magic or maybe not quite as precious as they used to be certainly to me.

Justin Flom: Because the internet has just shown that the audience has they’ve had access to the secrets for a while and magicians are

Justin Flom: They still haven’t gotten the word I’m looking at the data and can see that and it’s changing the way that I’m performing magic.

Justin Flom: And I’m actually bringing in the audience, more into a trusting relationship with me where I’m exposing more and more secrets to them because I’m finding that that’s what the audience wants, and I would prefer to give the audience what they want.

David Horsager: I love that because, well, first of all, one thing I would just back up one step and then

Justin Flom: We’ll move

David Horsager: On from magic. But the backup one step is you know I think understanding illusions.

David Horsager: At least it’s psychology, so much of how you know you don’t actually float. Something you only appear to float something you don’t actually Vanna something you appear to vanish something so

David Horsager: But what I think it’s helped me do it, whether it’s in the boardroom or our company, whatever is actually see what actually can be trusted. And what can’t because you get so good at seeing what is actually deceptive so

David Horsager: That’s actually, you know, have people that joke with me that know me well from years ago, they say, oh, you used to be, you know, a magician illusionist now you know you you build trust for living right you know used to deceive.

Justin Flom: People are

David Horsager: Living. Now you do trust and most people don’t, you know, know that normal, but actually it’s helped because it’s so much psychology of reading people and helping them but but helping them, you know,

David Horsager: Building trust with them and and and nowadays. We’re trying to, you know, lower deception in the boardroom and politics and global governments.

David Horsager: And whatever is it we’re trying to go for authentic trust, of course, that’s what we’d call it

David Horsager: But I think what’s what I really love about what you’ve done is you have cared about the audience.

David Horsager: what the audience wants because you know there’s a lot of artists and you and I know them that are starving that want to

David Horsager: That’s, yeah. But it’s art. It’s whatever comes to me and you said, well, actually, I’ve got to care about what they want, I want to use my gifts and people that don’t know you. I mean,

David Horsager: You’re from a brilliant family, your dad is one of the most amazing innovators. I know. And you’ve gotten a lot of that gift as an innovator and of course he’s, he’s very successful in his in his own right.

David Horsager: And but but anyway, I think, tell me more about that because we talked about the marketplace actually is really valuable because we have to deliver that what they want. If we want to be around and use any of our gifts.

Justin Flom: This is the first year where I was really able to listen to what the audience wanted because I had to. And it was about following the data. You know what’s what’s working, what’s not, and

Justin Flom: That’s a big piece of what we try to do in business is is an artist wants to do what they want to do and I’m I would not consider myself an artist anymore.

Justin Flom: My job as an entertainer is to find out what the audience wants and to give it to them. So I’ve been doing more research this year into what the audience wants than ever before in my life.

Justin Flom: And what I found is, yeah, they don’t necessarily want magic tricks. The way that I thought that they did so that changed a big piece of how I’ve, I’ve worked things

Justin Flom: Well, they want to learn. That’s a big piece of it. People want to feel like they’re learning something, even if they even if in reality they don’t really want to learn. They want to feel like they’re learning

Justin Flom: That’s a big piece for the audience that at least on my side of things. So what I’ve done like one of my big hits this year with like 300 million views. Is this it looks like I get sawed in half. So you’d go, oh, that’s just the old classic illusion. But actually, no, we start

David Horsager: Next, you did get sawed in half, actually.


Justin Flom: I what we actually did is

Justin Flom: We expose the secret at the top. So we let the audience in on I’m hidden inside of this secret compartment. These are fake legs. But when we move them this way.

Justin Flom: It looks as though I’m a whole person and then we’re going to, and the audience is suddenly like man, we’re learning

Justin Flom: Something here and then they are able to see. Oh man, we’re going to see this trick really mess with somebody. This is going to be fun.

Justin Flom: So that’s I think the audience likes that sort of thing, which is pretty different than what I was doing before, which was creating messaging for companies which I mean I’m still doing that, but just less so like after we finish up here. I’ll hop on a zoom call with

Justin Flom: A company that does antivirus computer software and I’m using magic tricks to communicate their message for the year, which is about time. So I’m creating magic with time and things like that. So it’s it’s juggling, a lot of different things.

Justin Flom: That all of the different stuff.

Justin Flom: I think you like

David Horsager: That, though, and I think

Justin Flom: Yes.

David Horsager: I will name i don’t know what i can or can’t name as far as the big, big, big brands. You’ve done some advertisements for some big ones that I know of that were amazing and and connecting but

Justin Flom: I think one thing that Coca Cola. One is interesting and

Justin Flom: And the way it came about is is interesting, just because it has to do with

Justin Flom: Building trust, but also just doing something for free, that you wouldn’t usually do.

Justin Flom: So I got to do an international ad campaign for Coca Cola, which was absolutely amazing. And the bit that they wanted is they wanted

Justin Flom: To do all of these magical changes revealing these Brand New Coke bottles that they were going to have internationally.

Justin Flom: But to do it without camera tricks. So the text played on the commercial. This was one that was big and movie theaters internationally and it would say there’s no camera tricks here. This is magician Justin flom and all that. But the reason that that Coca Cola getting came is because

Justin Flom: I was doing something as a charity for Walmart.

Justin Flom: I went down to Arkansas to visit with Walmart for free. Just out of the goodness of my heart just to hang out with the executives. Say hello to some of the employees and their big meeting.

Justin Flom: And I was there with Gina Davis and Nick Cannon, and just, just for fun and kind of as a favor, which is I’ve found nothing but success from doing

Justin Flom: Just a kind favor, even for a big corporation like Walmart and I got word from a very nice lady at the company. She said, Hey, you know, the Coca Cola executives are in town and they’re all in the front row.

Justin Flom: And I thought to myself, strategically great this morning. I’m only going to do Coca Cola magic tricks and I did.

Justin Flom: So everything I did use Coca Cola in some way and it was still very powerful magic still very good. But that meant that six months later, our phone rang from an advertising agency. And they said, Listen.

Justin Flom: We don’t know who you are but Coca Cola asked for you by name. And I got to do their campaign. After that, and it’s just because of a free favor that I was doing for Doug MacMillan and Walmart pretty amazing.

David Horsager: Something interesting about that I wrote about your dad in my first book to trust edge and talk about how he really built his business by giving

Justin Flom: As a generous given and talk

David Horsager: About him. And I think you you’ve taken that on yourself. You know, it’s, it’s pretty interesting.

Justin Flom: Yeah. Nobody can out give my dad that’s that’s 100%, true, true.

David Horsager: I think something interesting here.

David Horsager: Well, speaking of giving. I just have to put a shout out because Mike, I have a leadership group a mastermind kind of an accountability group. We’ve been meeting together for 28 years or whatever, since college, and 30 years and we meet at your family lodge up

Justin Flom: Yeah.

David Horsager: You know, on the lake in northern Minnesota. So, and that’s a gift. Your every time is like, Nope. GO TAKE THE GUYS MEET there, do your stuff. And that’s been one of the many, many huge gifts. So

David Horsager: With that, I’ll just tell everybody. Everybody should call Mr. Fleming use the CAP.


David Horsager: But I want to jump here. And I think, you know, what you doing now, at least tell me that this is true because we talked a lot about story how you build trust with


David Horsager: But you know you more and more, I think, at least in all of the stickiness you’re creating online really what you’re doing is inviting people into a story is that, is that what you’re trying to do. Is that what you’re doing. Tell me about that.

Justin Flom: Yeah, it’s I don’t know necessarily because the online thing moves so fast. Whatever I say today will be different tomorrow.

Justin Flom: Because everything is about what the viewer wants to see. So, you know, earlier this year the viewer wanted to see

Justin Flom: Science and different science experiments with me and my wife, and then later became you know puzzles were really big. And this is all for video content online that’s being passed around and

David Horsager: Well,

Justin Flom: By the way,

David Horsager: We just see the show notes trusted leader show.com we’re going to put links to this YouTube channel his

David Horsager: Law, everything you got to see some of this. If you haven’t seen all these videos that that’s where they are. Go ahead, Justin.

Justin Flom: Well, they’re very, they’re very silly videos and that’s that’s what I mean. Earlier, my, my content was more serious and and and really professional looking and and the public wants, you know, they wanted more.

Justin Flom: Authentic just a family at home hanging out, so that’s that’s what we’ve been doing

Justin Flom: But within each of these things, whether it be science or magic tricks or puzzles. The, the true subject of these things was story.

Justin Flom: And relationship. So my dad. He said that his business was all about relationships. It wasn’t about insurance sales, which he was the number one salesman in the company or is but

Justin Flom: That it didn’t have to do with prices or business that had to do with the way that he created relationship.

Justin Flom: And I think the same thing that people are peeking into these videos is about relationship they like my wife, they like me or or they don’t like us. And that’s a relationship to

Justin Flom: Whatever’s happening in these videos, there’s a relation that I have with the viewer and and and focusing on that is quite something. Yeah, it’s, it’s very interesting.

David Horsager: Well, how do you keep. I mean, this is something you kind of have created a dragon here that needs to eat or they’ll

David Horsager: Blow fire on. Yes. And, you know, and whether it’s your advertising. You know, people that will hire you. You know, you got to keep almost as an entrepreneur solo printer, you know, you’ve got to keep this engine going, how do you keep end of innovating today. How do you keep

David Horsager: Yes, creativity, how do you do that.

Justin Flom: It was it was a complete change of of mindset when your traditional magician, you would create a 12 minute act for your entire life, and you would perform it forever until you die.

Justin Flom: There was a great performer. His name is Marvin Roy. He went by the name Mr. Electric he created an act with light bulbs back when light bulbs are still a novelty and he would

Justin Flom: Pull 100 light bulbs out of his mouth and his wife would appear in a light bulb was great. And it was 13 minutes that took him around the world and he performed it everywhere.

Justin Flom: That doesn’t exist anymore. And that act that that this elderly gentleman created an untreated so preciously is not a system that can work in today’s day and age, so

Justin Flom: The, the complete shift was not to create anything and to be treated as precious nothing I create is precious. Now my job. So I’ve just today I’ve edited, I can look at my laptop and see 12345 pieces of content.

Justin Flom: And none of them are precious until hindsight shows later. Oh, this was something that you did. That was really good. It really resonated it made a lot of money. It had a lot of us.

Justin Flom: That’s going to stick around for a while. So my belief is that when the Beatles showed up into the studio to do Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.

Justin Flom: They just that was just what they were writing that day. They did not set out to create the greatest album of all time. They just showed up to work.

Justin Flom: So my job now is to show up to work every single day right something brand new. And this muscle has gotten really strong.

Justin Flom: Because I’ve freed myself from thinking that you can only create one thing for a term for your life. And you’re going to do that act forever.

Justin Flom: And now I’m like all right. Today I’m going to create three brand new pieces, new ideas, new little nuggets of something and I’m going to put them out and

Justin Flom: That brings the bar a lot lower, because you’re not trying to create something that is of lifelong value.

Justin Flom: And just because of that you will cross that bar and you will create things of lifelong value just by accident.

Justin Flom: So I sit and. And the other thing is I don’t waste time at all time is the most precious commodity. I have so like I finally convinced my wife yesterday.

Justin Flom: To bring on an assistant for her because she is used in a lot of my video content and just anything that someone else can do and that doesn’t require you or your personal imprint hire it out. Get rid of it, man. I was so

Justin Flom: I remember when you this is this is 20 years ago I REMEMBER WHEN YOU BROUGHT ON SOMEBODY TO ANSWER THE PHONE FOR YOU. I thought, wow, oh my goodness.

Justin Flom: Mr horse soccer has like a staff. This is the most impressive thing. And now here I am. Years later, I’m late to the game. I’m finally hiring on all of these things to give me more time doing what I’m supposed to be doing, focusing on my strengths

David Horsager: It’s pretty cool. I think that’s really cool. You know, I heard one time, way back when I started you know created my

David Horsager: First business 1999 but I heard someone say hire it done and and that can be a little bit arrogant sounding I had, you know, I started my first business so that dollar 4060 cents in my home account.

David Horsager: At since I can’t move back from being a direct this organization put everything into my first business lived in the basement of an older ladies home with my wife.

David Horsager: No windows bathroom or kitchen. We’d go upstairs and share her bathroom and kitchen and we lived there for two years. And that’s how we started. I felt like at the time. If I could make $700 a month, I could pay all my bills, you know,

David Horsager: Right, but

David Horsager: Even then, I just as soon as I could. I heard my first person and then I could leverage my Time, and I heard my next person and was what one I’ve, I’ve come to love giving people jobs.

David Horsager: I’ve also love building a team, we’re looking at a kind of for us at least six significant hiring the next few months.

Justin Flom: Yeah, so, but it’s it’s

David Horsager: It really does allow us to be our best and hopefully get people that they get to be their best in that role too.

Justin Flom: Because earlier you mentioned my biggest mistake and and and it’s your fault. And here’s what it was just for your listeners. This is, I think, will be interesting. So there’s this little sleepy showbiz town called Branson, Missouri.

Justin Flom: And in Branson. They’ve got 150 shows and they’ve got only 6000 people live there. So it’s very small town, but at the time I was there 8 million visitors a year were coming through.

Justin Flom: But still at 150 shows in town, each with, you know, there was, I think, 60 theaters and that’s like full fledged box office theater seats everything

David Horsager: Some of the most beautiful city in theaters in the world are there.

David Horsager: That’s right, people in them.

Justin Flom: That’s right man and the the Andy Williams theater is my favorite venue on the planet. I love it. I saw

Justin Flom: So many shows of him and Petula Clark and and Margaret. It was amazing. But I had my little show there and I could not make it work. I did five years.

Justin Flom: And the reason I couldn’t make it work is I was not allowed to focus on my strength because my strength was just putting on a good show.

Justin Flom: But instead, I had to focus on payroll and then concessions and then running a gift shop and then marketing and all of these other things because we didn’t budget. We didn’t have the deep pockets to hire any of that out. We had me and

Justin Flom: Two nice old ladies helping out who were very, very sweet, but it was it was a burden on our shoulders that we could not handle and then partner that with the town is very politically run and the, the older shows really get the things it’s a whole mafia type thing, they’re

David Horsager: Very different. The bread.

David Horsager: I haven’t heard that the brands and mafia. Yes. Yes. In fact, I was having a very nice conversation with

Justin Flom: A senator from that particular state and you know even she as a senator knew of the politics of the town. It was quite something. But I did five years. And then finally, just said we’re not. Why are we breaking our backs to break even.

Justin Flom: And and really, we weren’t breaking even we were losing. We ended up losing about $500,000 total

Justin Flom: And you know, we looked at that we said well we could have lost it in the market to great learning experience. I never again need to sell tickets to a stationary show

Justin Flom: And that allowed me to move to Las Vegas with my new bride and not have any desire to perform on the strip instead living in Las Vegas allowed me to create a brain trust of creators and thinkers

Justin Flom: And really it gave me the most cutting edge magic at the time, which allowed me to get on LM and and create this TV show called wizard wars and all that, because

Justin Flom: The smartest brains were two blocks away from my house and we were always spending time together, always working always creating and that was the strength to focus on

David Horsager: Well, I think that speaks to another one, and that is team, you were really good at getting around the right people building relationship with the right people authentically and giving in those relationships.

David Horsager: I’m going to end that you know you said the word authenticity while ago, we’re big on that, hey,

David Horsager: Gina studio four or five here can’t is my producer can I do one that shows you in it. Oh, there is

David Horsager: Can’t add 10 smart and he’s producing the show. So I just want to be like if you have a question, just shout it out. Kent and you

David Horsager: Love right and he’s got a mic.

David Horsager: Right there, he might jump in and say something to

Justin Flom: That’s great, please.

David Horsager: About your generation. So

David Horsager: You know, who knows what what he’ll come up with as we go. He might jump right in.

David Horsager: But let’s go to that, you know, what did you learn whether it’s you learn some things from your kind of, you could say failure there. But these shows. I mean, what I’m interested

David Horsager: Also in, you know, we talked about trusted leaders and trust is a long term thing, and you’ve built trust because you’ve you figured a plan a routine for creativity. Are there other habits or routines that you have that just kind of

Justin Flom: Hundred percent

David Horsager: What are some of those because what you do is you just consistently. Now you’re part of Ellen. She has you on off and now you’re you know you have some of these things that

David Horsager: But some of these things. Yeah. Job Is It might be a one and done, but you have to keep at it right

David Horsager: What are some yeah life personal or not.

Justin Flom: So the routine that I think is helping me a lot right now is being able boy I get so distracted.

Justin Flom: I don’t know if it’s actual add or just a creative mentality. But if I’m working at my computer as soon as something has to load or there’s a little bit of time where I can’t be moving

Justin Flom: What I’ve done now and I’ll even show you if you’re watching this on camera. I’ve got this this book stand and this sits next to my laptop with the book, open, it’s, it’s got pages specially

Justin Flom: This. And speaking of failure. This is an incredible book by Scott Adams, how to fail at everything and still win big an incredible book really about not it’s funny.

Justin Flom: It’s about not following your passion and it’s changing my life right now. I really love it because it’s it’s about following what is working and what’s successful rather than following your passion.

Justin Flom: And that’s where I felt the most freedom is is in creating a system of success, rather than wanting to do what I want, which is quite a selfish thing that US quote unquote artists have have done for years. So that’s a new habit.

Justin Flom: I like

David Horsager: To call that out because I think that’s a problem for people, they think, well, I should just do what I want. I’m only authentic if I do what I want for myself that makes me feel good. And I think that’s not it. We have to think about what did they need

David Horsager: What would help them. What do they want. And so, by the way, we’ll look it up, and maybe get a link to that if you’re just listening to the podcast. It’s a really cool idea. The, the little stand you have there to read, we know

Justin Flom: Yeah, it’s great for my job because my job requires a lot of

Justin Flom: Uploading and waiting. So I finished the video set it to upload. I got five minutes to sit here where if I try to start another project, then I’m never gonna then

Justin Flom: Then, everything’s going to be messed up. So I have to sit here. Well, this thing uploads, how am I going to be productive. I’m going to do this reading and the real synopsis of the book is to say

Justin Flom: You’re worried that you’re not going to work with passion. If you’re not working at what you’re passionate about. But I promise.

Justin Flom: You will be passionate about what you are successful in. So if you start finding success in

Justin Flom: I don’t know, managing a plumbing company you’re going to be passionate about it because it’s it’s bringing in money and you’re finding success at it so

Justin Flom: That’s, that’s a new total freedom for me is to be passionate about something that’s successful and to chase that rather than to chase some desire that I had when I was 10 years old that I never let go of

David Horsager: I love that. I love it and so on. The you know you’ve got a plan there for learning. I mean, we know great leaders are great readers. We’ve heard it a lot. I remember

David Horsager: Not too many years ago looking at the data and finding the number you know average american watches 1200 and 87 I still have in my head 1200 and 87 hours of kind of junk TV, which is kind of what you create right now. Just kidding, but


Justin Flom: But it’s like

David Horsager: Watch TV. That’s kind of entertaining or whatever value and the average American reads and we know you can gain a lot of reading, right, especially a good, a good book. And the average American reads

David Horsager: In their lifetime. Not annually 12 underneath them in their lifetime as far as books over it was over 200 pages so Goodnight Moon to your kids doesn’t count. Right.

David Horsager: So it right average number of books and American reads in their lifetime after their formal education, whether that was a PhD or high school degree. What do you think the average is

Justin Flom: So I’m not going to give away the answer, because I know the answer to this, because I’ve read your books. Okay, the answer is

David Horsager: One and is that not incredible it’s

David Horsager: One. And so what happens is you’ve got people not learning. You got people not growing and it’s it’s getting this this mushy kind of mindset that isn’t growth oriented and I’m proud of you and seeing you there, you know, keep keeping learning, but it is sad.

David Horsager: It’s really sad news for

David Horsager: An author, by the way, that’s bad news or not.

Justin Flom: It’s bad news for an author. It’s why I haven’t written a follow up to either of my books because I did the book thing. Happy to have done it. I don’t need to do anymore because yeah there’s, it’s, it’s

Justin Flom: That’s, that’s a difficult outlook for an author, but for me I just, there’s no time in the day. I don’t know how

Justin Flom: I don’t know how people do it. I have no idea how people find the time in the day to get everything done because I could work 18 hours every single day and still have things to do at the end of the day.

Justin Flom: Which is an amazing thing for my job that that I it’s up to me what how much money I want to make for the day because I can just continue on it. So then that

Justin Flom: I have to sit down with my wife and and really try to balance out. What’s the. How much time should I work. How much time should I take off for the family. I don’t have the answer to these questions yet. I’ll let you know.

David Horsager: I don’t either.

David Horsager: I’ve got teenagers and I don’t have them any other habits or routines that you have just in life that that make you better. I mean, you still as healthy as can be. I know your wife looks healthy, you’ve got, you know, kiddo haven there and you got like life is going crazy. What

Justin Flom: You know, yes.

Justin Flom: It all has to do with flexibility, it’s, it’s, I want

Justin Flom: You know, if I told you. Hey, you get to take a nap today. You’d be like, Oh man, I’d love a nap. But if I told you your nap was only going to be an hour before bedtime. Let’s kind of worthless. Like, that’s not a

Justin Flom: Because the you want to be flexible with where you put the things that you enjoy otherwise you might not find enjoyment in them a fine meal is only good if you’re hungry.

Justin Flom: So the flexibility in my life has been very important to just work out whatever I can do to be flexible because I know that happiness will come from myself and from my bride when we have the flexibility so

Justin Flom: We have been very intentional about creating a life that is when I was when I used to do missions trips. When I was younger, with my church, the pastor who was

Justin Flom: Who would take us around and we do a dozen shows in a day. We jump around from orphanages to parks to soccer stadiums doing shows all over

Justin Flom: Peru, Kenya, Egypt, and he would, he said, folks, what I need from you today and he was talking to the crew. He’s talking to choir and magic team children’s team. It’s a rigid flexibility.

Justin Flom: We have a plan, but I need rigid flexibility from you here because things are going to change things are going to happen and when you hold all those things loosely

Justin Flom: And it’s another thing that came from my dad when you just understand that life is going to throw curveballs at you daily

Justin Flom: Then you don’t freak out when they come because you just know that they’re, you know, oh, well, this is the curveball for today. All right, good. And you just have to be rigidly flexible.

Justin Flom: With it, and then I think the other. I think the other habit which I’ve kept up now for the last two years is writing every single day. Now that’s important for me and my job.

Justin Flom: Because I’m creating content. So I need ideas. I need you know funny things to communicate or or whatever. But whatever you’re doing, I, you just have to

Justin Flom: Do the new thing every single day. So Seinfeld put it to. He had his, his way of thinking about it was perfect for me because I’m sober now 12 years

Justin Flom: So, and the way sobriety works for me. Is it gets easier. The longer it’s been because I’ve built up this

Justin Flom: Amazing point system of 12 years do I want a drink more than I want to have this amazing accomplishment of 12 years of sobriety. No, I don’t want that more I want I want this more

Justin Flom: So so Seinfeld’s routine was called don’t break the chain, which was wake up in the morning.

Justin Flom: And right, doesn’t matter what you write. You just gotta right and then you get to go to your calendar, you put an X through that day in the calendar.

Justin Flom: Next day right and put an X in the calendar, pretty soon you’re going to have a chain of x’s in your calendar.

Justin Flom: Where you’ve written every single day. And what’s really exciting is you don’t break the chain and pretty soon you’ll have a year where every single day you’ve written and I’ll tell you the truth.

Justin Flom: I’m not a very good writer. I’m not the best, most creative guy.

Justin Flom: I just in my batting averages for writing, whether it be jokes or ideas or tricks or whatever my batting average is pretty low, but I’m going to show up to work more than you.

Justin Flom: And that’s why I’m gonna win because that’s that’s the secret to it. I don’t think Seinfeld is the best comic of all time by his brain. He’s the best comic of all time for his work ethic.

Justin Flom: That is a good

David Horsager: That’s a true statement. Do you have a certain time that you like you always do it at this time. Like, do you have any other rhythms that make that happen, or is it just like I’m not gonna go to bed before I do

Justin Flom: Yeah, it would be. I’m not going to go to bed. That was what it was. I’m, I’m working on the time thing, because I would really like to know what I’m going to do 9am on December 17 2021 but i don’t i don’t know that I wish I did.

Justin Flom: But for right now. What it is is just, I’m not going to sleep until I finished this task, which isn’t the healthiest way to do it.

Justin Flom: But what it did mean is that there was times I remember I was up in Canada. I was on the road. We didn’t show in the morning, we drove to the next show.

Justin Flom: We get there. I’m not pulling into my hotel until 2am and I hadn’t written a page yet that day. No. Well, I’ve got three months at that point built up of days writing

Justin Flom: I don’t want to throw that away. So I quick spent 45 minutes writing before I went to bed because I would rather have have written match.

Justin Flom: The discipline.

David Horsager: What’s right it, you know, what is it do you give yourself a break at one sentence one page or five pages. I know for for Rory Baden, he made it, you know, he made it four and a half years, and his was basically it’s 12 minutes, but all I had to do was I just got to break a sweat. I’m gonna

David Horsager: I’m gonna work out every day.

David Horsager: It might be six minutes, but I gotta break a sweat. It’s got to be a real sweat. So I can, I can always go to the gym I can do sit ups in my hotel room, whatever. But I gotta break a sweat. So four and a half years.

David Horsager: And you know he’s a good friend of mine and you wrote you know procrastinate on purpose. And so, and you take the stairs and some great books and but but I think it’s interesting, he just he knew what that meant.

Justin Flom: What, what’s it mean to you right for me it was a page, it was just get a page of ideas down

Justin Flom: And even if they were bad. And really, man. I heard a great piece of advice from john mayer where he said write bad songs or sorry, finish bad songs and what he was saying.

Justin Flom: Yeah, he was speaking at Berkeley and a kid asked, you know, he’s like Mr. Mayor, what, what do you do if all of your songs that you’re writing sound the same.

Justin Flom: And he said, Well, are you finishing the songs and the guy kind of sheep asleep. He was like, well, no, he says, you’re not writing songs that sound the same. You’re trying to finish one song.

Justin Flom: Right. The bad song. Get it out of your system and then move on, you know, so for me.

Justin Flom: If the thought is running around up here. I gotta get it down on the paper. And if it sucks. That’s fine. Now it’s out. Okay.

Justin Flom: And and you have to get the bad ones out because otherwise you’re, you’re going to constantly be revisiting it in your head. And I thought that was pretty good.

Justin Flom: Piece. So now I treat it that way for videos like I will just do the bad video because you don’t know you have you have no idea if it’s good or bad, just get it out. Get it out of your system.

David Horsager: So you got it. You know, this is fun. It’s so fun to see how you’ve grown up to because you like, but let’s let’s just take you have a massive amount of influence today. Some people would say, leadership is influence

Justin Flom: We believe

David Horsager: That something to do with it, too. But, but with influence comes massive responsibility, I believe, of course, some people don’t believe that. But what do you, you know, when you think of a key to leadership, you’re leading now or at least you’re influencing a whole lot of people

David Horsager: Do you feel any weight of responsibility. You certainly bring a lot of joy you bring a lot of

David Horsager: Fun. But is there any framework for responsibility that you bring to this role.

Justin Flom: You know my dad was talking about it with me and he’s, he would like me to use the influence for good sooner. Like, like, get on it right now. This all feels very new to me.

Justin Flom: Because, well I was successful for the last decade, you know, I was on tour with Florida, Georgia line doing arenas like Madison Square Garden. It’s probably the highlight of my life up until this year and

Justin Flom: And, you know, talk shows and TV shows and all of that. But it still felt like I was building. It didn’t feel like I had any sort of real audience because in in the modern world of the algorithm, you have to earn the audience’s eyeball every time.

Justin Flom: It kind of is this trick that the big social media companies played on us where we all consolidated our following or our fans to these pages.

Justin Flom: Thinking that we would have access to them like an email list and then

Justin Flom: So, you know, you’re a company like Coca Cola, you get all of your fans to like your Facebook page by putting like us on Facebook on your TV commercials.

Justin Flom: So you got millions of likes. Now you post a commercial and it goes to 20,000 people. Well, why is that, well, Facebook is holding your fans hostage essentially

Justin Flom: Only going to show them what you’re creating if it’s good, well that’s that’s a totally different.

Justin Flom: Different things so I have never felt to answer your question. I’ve never felt like I have the large audience to influence because

Justin Flom: Each time I step out to put something in front of the large audience. It’s so dependent on the algorithm. So I don’t know yet what I’m going to do with said influence. I know the important things are to me is faith. Faith plays an enormous role in my life and

Justin Flom: I think there was one way that I saw it played out that I really liked. So this was right after my TV show wizard wars. So the whole season was up on

Justin Flom: ITunes, I believe, and here’s, here’s how the show when is we would create

Justin Flom: Interesting magic tricks out of ordinary objects, kind of like Iron Chef or chopped where they give the cooks, you know, random ingredients and say make a meal, we would do that. But with magic.

Justin Flom: And it was on the Sci Fi Channel and Penn and Teller or celebrity judges. It was really cool and I was the lead wizard on the show so

Justin Flom: This lady who was stuck in her hospital bed. She couldn’t do anything all she had was her iPad. She binge, the whole show watch through all that and

Justin Flom: I’m happy to say I was her favorite so she goes and she finds me on social media, and she sees in all of my BIOS on Twitter and Facebook and stuff. The words Christ follower.

Justin Flom: And she didn’t really know what that meant. But she knew she liked

Justin Flom: Everything I did on TV and then she liked everything she was seeing online with this family dynamic and these backyard parties that I would throw for friends.

Justin Flom: And she’s like, I don’t know what this guy has but it’s something special. So she calls the hospital Chaplain over

Justin Flom: And says, what is this mean Christ follower. What is this and there that hospital pastor led her to faith in Jesus Christ.

Justin Flom: Now that’s an amazing thing for me because that’s something that’s important to me and I didn’t do it. I had the part I had in it was just by pointing with the lifestyle.

Justin Flom: To that and you can look at that for anything that you have, whether it be just a

Justin Flom: Morality, or a faith in in a particular higher power or sobriety or anything like that. If you’re living out that attractive life and you are shining bright within it.

Justin Flom: That’s the influence that you can have. And that was for me a really cool story she wrote me a nice letter and thanked me for it and and here it all happened without my knowledge. Well,

David Horsager: That’s a great. That’s great story. So what’s what’s what’s next for you, what’s what’s exciting up up up in front of you, these days.

Justin Flom: Boy, I don’t know, it’s a we don’t know what’s going to happen with live entertainment in the future. We just have no idea.

Justin Flom: You know, I was watching my buddy Justin Wellman do a live zoom show. And it was amazing. He showed me a setup and he’s got the amount of re education that I went through back in March to creating online content.

Justin Flom: My buddy. And he has a Netflix magic show. So he’s full on magician still and he he went through the same amount of re education.

Justin Flom: But for to become a broadcaster so suddenly now he’s got a standing desk giant monitor showing all the zoom rooms that he’s doing. He’s got video switcher three camera setup. It looks kind of like the room that you’ve got there for all of this. It’s, it’s incredible.

Justin Flom: I, I could see something like that being an option. But I think the way the future’s looking for me as I am just having so much fun creating silly content online that the audience.

Justin Flom: Following the whims of an audience, the freedom that I felt writing these sorts of things has been a lot of fun and

Justin Flom: And we’re still pitching TV stuff. There’s, there’s some fun scripted television stuff in the works that still have a one in 100 shot of going someplace, but you know 100 is is actually pretty good odds and TV. So we’ll see what

David Horsager: What do you, where do you get inspiration. These days, like

David Horsager: You gotta stay inspired and

Justin Flom: Yeah, the inspiration comes from my little girls. I got a four year old and I got a one year old and they said Haven and holiday we call her Holly and and it is just

Justin Flom: So much fun seeing them go through stages of life. Now that I remember going through when I was, you know, a little kid, so that that inspires me the most. And I want to, I want to showcase

Justin Flom: Real life in that way. That’s, that’s a really fun thing. And the next thing that inspires me is just doing new things, man. I think variety is the spice of life. So the fact that I get to do a different thing every single day.

Justin Flom: Is just an absolute blast because I figure it goes back to what I said at the beginning, I don’t have to do the same magic show every single day. Now I get to create something new every day and knowing that that’s possible.

Justin Flom: Is and and I don’t know why magicians don’t think it’s possible, because you look at scripted television, you look at comic strips. You look at almost any other art form.

Justin Flom: And you have to create it in a serial fashion new every single day. So that’s what inspires me is doing something new every single day and just building that muscle.

David Horsager: I love it. Is there anything if you’re going to give you know we talked about doing the work here. You’re doing the work. You’ve got to do the work. You don’t get successful, you don’t have an influence you don’t lead well unless you do the work.

David Horsager: Is there anything else I know the habit for you, probably the biggest one is writing every day.

David Horsager: Is there any other tip or advice that you’d say for just everyone every leader every person to be more productive or effective would be like, this is something you could do every day that would, you know, could help anybody

Justin Flom: Yeah, that’s uh yeah you know

Justin Flom: Exercise because and and that’s the most boring sounding one people, man. The there’s people who clicked off the podcast right now. As soon as I said that

Justin Flom: Because they’re like oh come on the endorphins that are released when you exercise, they give me such a productive mentality, it, it is. It’s like a magic trick.

Justin Flom: Your brother, by the way, your brother.

David Horsager: Puts both of us to shame we don’t want to stand next to him with his shirt off but

Justin Flom: He’s got some great tips you talk about a guy that’s created incredible

David Horsager: Business and light and, you know, but what’s your favorite exercise. What’s something you can you do. Are you like to do

Justin Flom: I just like lifting. I like any kind of thing. I hate cardio and

Justin Flom: All and I like finding research that says that cardio isn’t good for you, even if I’m like, I’m like, even if I’m looking at you know bunk research. I’m like, Yeah, I just want to lift.

Justin Flom: Because what I do is I is I THROW IN. I DON’T THROW IN MUSIC I throw in podcasts Ektron talk radio

Justin Flom: And I’m listening to that and I get those endorphins going and now I feel ready to conquer the world. So I tried to do that in the morning.

Justin Flom: And then go and be productive after that because listen, whether you’re an author, a writer, whether you’re a leader in your particular business.

Justin Flom: Or whether you’re an employee with a boss. All of us have tasks to do during the day that if we come at it with ingenuity and creativity, it will get the attention that that you want so that you can move up. And the other thing I’ll say that is interesting is

Justin Flom: Is really about following success, instead of your passion. So I’ve kind of reached the top of this ladder on the social media landscape because

Justin Flom: Like you said at the beginning, the in the week leading up to the election my Facebook page had higher reach worldwide than than Donald Trump and Fox News Forbes covered it and Facebook released it and that’s crazy.

Justin Flom: And if if I had been climbing the ladder. I wanted to, which was a ladder of a famous magician with TV specials every year, you know, and we both know

Justin Flom: One particular individual who had that all throughout the 80s and I wish he was a nicer individual, but that doesn’t matter. But I climb that ladder.

Justin Flom: I thought, I thought I was climbing the ladder of famous TV magician, and I get to the top. And I’m standing on the building at the top of this ladder and I look around and I realized

Justin Flom: I’m not there. I’m actually at the top of this new social media game sort of thing. What, what does that look like and I look across the street.

Justin Flom: At the ladder. I thought I was crawling climbing of TV magician and that building is demolished doesn’t even exist anymore. So it’s really good that I was climbing this ladder over here because I’m happier for it.

Justin Flom: I don’t know, it’s just a word picture I like about you don’t know if you’re following your passion, if that’s the right way really you should be following success.

David Horsager: Yeah, we’re gonna ask. We’re gonna ask you just for the fun that he can edit anything so. So Justin I you know I’m

David Horsager: Big on research big on you know I sit on the board of a university. And of course, you would probably say, hey, forget college. What say you,

Justin Flom: I like my doctors and my lawyers to go to college, but beyond that most people we live in just the information age and you can learn anything outside of school.

Justin Flom: I think if it was 30 years ago, different story. But what universities and colleges look like today, I think you’re going to go into a lot of debt when you

Justin Flom: Win, more likely, you could learn everything you need to know at a trade school or just online, so I don’t encourage many people to go to college, depending on what they want to do.

Justin Flom: Myself, I skipped college and immediately went to losing money on a theatre in Branson, Missouri.

Justin Flom: And what I ended up four years ahead of my competition because I didn’t go to college, but the main thing was is a gentleman in Minneapolis there. He told me a great piece of advice. This is Bill Arnold an actor and comedian.

David Horsager: I called him. Yes.

Justin Flom: I know how grey.

Justin Flom: Yes. So Bill told me burn the ships. He said, if you have a backup plan, you’ll use it. But if you burn the ships and and show business or whatever is the only way to make it work.

Justin Flom: Then, then you’ll make it work. And that’s kind of what I did is, is really that only only plan, but I’ve modified the plan. Since and seeing that it doesn’t have to be magic that’ll work. It can be any kind of entertainment, but I’m making work.

Justin Flom: Yeah, can burn the ships, they’ll learn. Oh, by the way, I’m ahead.

David Horsager: Yeah, Bill Arnold, you know, became very successful they produced triple espresso the show and had shows go

David Horsager: Over the world at one point he’s a he’s on a radio station as a host. And he also still performs and what it wasn’t inspiration to many, but

David Horsager: Um, yeah, I love it. It’s interesting because, you know, you aren’t the only one. Your sister BECAME, YOU KNOW, SHE SKIPPED college right. She said, I’m making

Justin Flom: She was

Justin Flom: She was in it. She was over at crown and she got an offer from the University of Minnesota to shoot a magazine.

Justin Flom: She’s a photographer and show and she saw that as a sign of, like, you know what, I don’t think I need what’s here, I’m just going to go for it and

Justin Flom: Within the year she had booked six figures of weddings and portrait shoots and different things.

Justin Flom: totally changed her life, being able to drop out of college and do that and and then in the same way.

Justin Flom: We her best friend has dropped out of her regular job and started creating content with my sister and myself for these online things. So I’m all into dropping the traditional job or education and going into the unique. I love it.

David Horsager: There you go. Well, both ways can work, I think, and certainly there’s truth in that, so that the number one takeaway, I would say is keep on learning, keep on innovating.

David Horsager: Well, I could talk to you all day. We got to have you back sometime. But we got to get to the lightning round here so you can

Justin Flom: Answer.

David Horsager: As quick as you can.

David Horsager: Let’s, let’s try to go. One of you might already answered. I’m going to answer it again in case you have a second book. But let’s go for what’s your favorite book or resource right now.

David Horsager: We talked about Scott Adams, if that’s the one. But maybe there’s a secondary favorite book or resource podcasts something right now.

Justin Flom: Yeah, that would be the one. And if you’re in speaking or entertainment at all the other would be a book called maximum entertainment and really is about

Justin Flom: Bringing a professional mentality to speaking and an entertaining. It’s by a friend of mine named Ken Weber and he just rewrote it

Justin Flom: You know, you wrote about 20 years ago, he just read it at all with brand new things coming from internet and social media maximum entertainment mess with people. If you’re into any sort of public work like that.

David Horsager: We just did a different podcast we talked to the one of the greatest speech coaches of all time. Patricia Fripp, but we were talking about how Warren Buffett said you

David Horsager: He said, If you want to increase your value your worth by 50% get good at communicating

David Horsager: Or speaking that’s, you know,

David Horsager: Key way that motivate inspire get anything done. It doesn’t matter if it’s our five year old teenager or boardroom right so let’s do the next one, what anything. You can’t live without.

David Horsager: Something yes without

Justin Flom: This cup of coffee right here. I cannot live without the coffee and then that’s, that’s it.

David Horsager: All right. What if you have any like you’ve had you’ve given several quotes. Any quotes you can live by or any thoughts that you think this I want this is my mantra or a quote or thought that I live by.

Justin Flom: On Boy, what a

Justin Flom: finish strong. I had a teacher in high school named Mr. She and he’s passed on, we lost him to cancer. But he had just about finishing strong man. There are there are days when you’re lagging and you’re like, I’m not in but if I can just power through and finish strong

David Horsager: That’s it goes from days, it goes for the years, it goes for life.

All right.

David Horsager: What is your favorite. You know, my favorite food is ice cream. What is your favorite ice cream flavor.

Justin Flom: Man. So that’s your favorite food, boy.

David Horsager: Well, what’s your go to your favorite food. If you don’t like ice cream.

David Horsager: But, you know,

David Horsager: At your parents place this reminds me right before code.

David Horsager: I was flying. I had to speak and Marco island.

David Horsager: And I had to

David Horsager: I had to. Speaking of generosity, your dad again. So I had Isaiah with map and bring one of the kids and we just said, are you there. And yeah, we’re here. Come on over. So, so he gives it. What is that 1940 Porsche or whatever he said.

David Horsager: Yes, that with your son my son’s just getting his license. You know, he says, so we we drive around and go over to get my favorite brand of ice cream. If it’s not homemade vanilla we drive over and get something you can only get in the South, not in Minnesota. Unfortunately, but Blue Bell.

David Horsager: Ice old fashioned middle and then we went back to your parents. After that, and we had more Blue Bell ice cream because your mom said, Let’s all have it out of the bucket and she had like three different buckets. So


Justin Flom: Surprisingly, my you show your favorite ice cream is only available in the South. My favorite ice cream is only available in Minnesota and Wisconsin and the Dakotas.

Justin Flom: Which is New York City vanilla New York vanilla and it’s just it’s by Kemp’s and you can’t get it anywhere else. It’s just my favorite. It’s such a disappointing thing that I can’t get it out here in Las Vegas.

David Horsager: It’s got that golden tinge to write

David Horsager: That. No, I love it. Well, this has been an amazing conversation can anything you wanted to just say, but I’ve got one more question to end with

Justin Flom: In a moment. Yeah, please.

David Horsager: I’m going to give a recap, Ken. What are you thinking, okay, I was just gonna, I think, a question I had was

David Horsager: You know you’ve been very innovative, especially this year as a lot of people have tried to because of coven

David Horsager: So I was just wondering if you had any kind of advice for people who maybe feel a little more stuck. They don’t know exactly how to like pivot from where they are. They’re kind of what they’re doing isn’t working. Do you have any kind of tips or advice to be

David Horsager: Yeah, get past that mindset of not wanting to change.

Justin Flom: Gosh, I wonder if this is the right way. This probably isn’t the right way to say it, because this is going to sound unkind, but what it is is that

Justin Flom: Most people don’t care about you.

Justin Flom: This is the way I’ll say it and let me clarify what that means, which is just you imagine whatever risk you’re taking whatever silly thing you’re doing whatever new pivot, you’re trying

Justin Flom: That the entire world is looking at you and judging you. And the truth is, is they’re not thinking about you at all. They’re too busy thinking about themselves in their own pivot.

Justin Flom: So that understanding that really freed me up at the beginning of coven to make a hard pivot and I mean like a really hard pivot. If you were to watch content that I created.

Justin Flom: In November of 2019. It was my most artistic creation. I’ve ever done it with something called Magic mixtape. I wrote music for this thing.

Justin Flom: And created original magic and it has an average watch time of 20 SECONDS, AND THIS IS FOR A 20 minute piece of content. So that’s what we would call a failure, even though it’s my proudest

Justin Flom: Artistic little piece and then just four months later, I’m doing what some people would say is the most artistic thing I’ve ever done. But I’m seeing the most success.

Justin Flom: And that was only possible because in this hard pivot. I did not think at all about what people thought about me.

Justin Flom: And and really I’ve zeroed in all of my focus into my immediate trust group of friends and family. And if I oh I only care about what they think.

Justin Flom: I it’s it’s really an us versus them sort of mindset now because I it’s it’s so it’s so new to not care what the magic community thinks or to not care what

Justin Flom: The elites think and to really only focus on. Here’s my trusted group of advisors and here’s my family. What do they say about what I’m doing right now. And if I’m good there that I’m good.

David Horsager: I love that. You know what else I love about that, by the way. Did you have a follow on with that. Okay. I think what I like about that is that you don’t care what anybody else thinks, but you do care what some people think

David Horsager: And that yes, you have some accountability.

David Horsager: I think there’s some renegade and they just kind of selfishly, or actually in authentically say I don’t care what anybody thinks. Yeah, you do.

Justin Flom: Yeah, but

David Horsager: That you care. The key there is caring about with the right people think. So having an accountability a trusted advisor having your family having you I often think what would grandma. Think about this.

David Horsager: You know, sure, like, well that that helps me think about it. Right. But I’m not caring about what they think. Yeah. I love that so

David Horsager: This is full of all kinds of what a great conversation. They’re just so many things here. I mean, I just wrote some things down as we’re talking. Most people don’t care about you. I think that’s a truth success from kindness wins.

David Horsager: They, they want the when talking about the audience the audience wants story relationships and authenticity must not create anything as precious

David Horsager: You got to do the work daily time is the most precious commodity. These are just a few of the key takeaways today if you failed because you couldn’t focus on your strengths. At first, that was in Branson rigid flexibility right every day.

David Horsager: Variety to doing new things sparked your creativity.

David Horsager: Or there’s a whole lot more finish the bad songs finished strong and this I’ll leave with this one. Don’t break the chain.

David Horsager: That’s right, the habits, but I before I get to our final question, where can everybody find you, Justin.

Justin Flom: Right now, most people would find me on Facebook. Facebook is where the wealth of content is going

Justin Flom: You can just search my name. Justin flom there. I mean, we’re posting, not just my own content, but I’ve got a whole team of people creating silly things and they are

Justin Flom: All being posted underneath my name. Pretty, pretty fun. Bunch of content or just if you want to contact me directly. Justin flom calm.

Justin Flom: And there you can see some of the professional stuff I’ve done for Heineken or Dollar General or you can reach me directly, and maybe see about creating a custom magic message for something you want to do.

David Horsager: Sounds great. Well, it is the trusted leader, by the way, we’ll put all that in the show notes. And we’ll put all the links to anything talked about just, you know, also, just to remember trusted leader show.com

David Horsager: We have everything on Justin I love. I mean, the thing I said at the very beginning, you’re the same onstage. Is your offstage authentic and

David Horsager: Just super fun down to earth but brilliant and innovative and it’s just it’s a treat to have you on. It’s a treat to count you and your family as a friend. And so here’s that last question. It’s a trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why

Justin Flom: So I’m going to go with the guy who I’m working with most often now and he’s a gentleman named Ricky lacks or Rick lacks

Justin Flom: And he is a leader now have a group of individuals here in Las Vegas. Who’s creating the content that I was kind of just talking about, and he

Justin Flom: Is the person who really kind of changed my thinking on what entertainment.

Justin Flom: Is and and what this generation wants to see, but beyond all of the smart things that he did as far as this pivot in and what entertainment looks like the reason he’s a leader.

Justin Flom: Is the community that he’s been able to foster i don’t i don’t know what leadership’s books he was he was reading. He’s definitely looking at things like a network head. I know he was reading Bob Iger Disney biography and and things about like

Justin Flom: I forget other personalities like that, but

Justin Flom: The community that he fostered was not just

Justin Flom: For himself taking risks and doing new things and not caring what other people thought, but really instilling that in a dozen people around him.

Justin Flom: And I and

Justin Flom: There’s an old thing in improv called yes and and yes and is just basically an improv game.

Justin Flom: And you’d see it in sketch comedy and many other things where, when somebody comes into the scene with an idea and they go, hey, my brother was just abducted by aliens.

Justin Flom: You as the actor playing opposite say yes and and then you add to it. The reason being is you never want to say no because that’ll stop the momentum right in its tracks.

Justin Flom: And also you want to be able to build this positive creative energy towards some crazy new idea and saying yes will bring you someplace that you didn’t know that you could go to

Justin Flom: So we don’t just play. Yes. And on camera, which we certainly do. Because most of these videos are very improv sketch type things. We also say yes and in life the way that we

Justin Flom: The way that we brainstorm. The way that we work together the opportunities that are coming. I say yes.

Justin Flom: And what about this. And yes, and what about this. So obviously there’s, there’s a lot of wisdom into saying no to a lot and you can gain your profits by saying no.

Justin Flom: So that’s not we’re not knocking that there’s I’ve said no to more than I ever have this year, but in a mentality of

Justin Flom: community building a company which is what we’re doing essentially is we’re taking several dozen people trying to create a new company here in Las Vegas. We are all saying yes and

Justin Flom: To what we’re doing. I don’t know if that makes sense. But as a leader Ricky lacks

Justin Flom: Fostering that that’s who I would say, and you can see his content online and he’s the only other face. He was the only Facebook page beating me as a personality in that top five pages leading up to the election is you’d see Justin flom and then just above me. Ricky lacks

David Horsager: Oh, that’s an

David Horsager: Interesting well

David Horsager: You know, it’s been said many times, you’re the same about creativity success wealth and everything of the people you hang out with

David Horsager: And I’m probably and even character.

David Horsager: And waistline of the people you hang out with. So

David Horsager: Hang out with people that are if you want to be healthy hang out with people that helped the of you, you know, if you need innovation and hang out with people, you know, hang out with people.

Justin Flom: Like you, and I don’t want to be the smartest guy in the room.

Justin Flom: I want. I want to be learning from somebody else who’s smarter than me in that room.

David Horsager: Well, there’s a lot more smarts that we could gain from you and a whole lot of insight and inspiration today and just a fun conversation but

David Horsager: With that you can check out trusted leader show.com if you want any of the notes or connect with Justin and thank you for listening to the show today, keep on building trust and we’ll see you next time.

Ep. 8: Jeff Zaugg on Why Intentional Fatherhood is Critical for Kids

In this episode, David sits down with Jeff Zaugg, founder and lead cheerleader at dadAWESOME & FATHERS FOR THE FATHERLESS, to discuss why intentional fatherhood is critical for kids and how dads can be more intentional and dadAWESOME.

Jeff’s Bio:
Jeff and Michelle Zaugg will celebrate 15 years of marriage this year. They live in New Brighton, MN with their 3 young daughters and they’re expecting their 4th baby girl in Spring 2021. After 10-years of entrepreneurial non-profit ministry leadership, Jeff served as a pastor at Substance Church in the Twin Cities for the past 7 years. In Fall 2020 Jeff took the leap and went full-time fatherhood ministry. He is the founder and lead cheerleader at dadAWESOME & FATHERS FOR THE FATHERLESS. When he’s not wrestling or playing hide and seek with his daughters, you might find Jeff out for a bike ride, making a pour over coffee, sitting by a fire with his wife or challenging some friends to a game of Spikeball.

Jeff’s Links:
Website: https://dadawesome.org/
Jeff’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeffzaugg/
dadAWESOME Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dadawesome/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zaugg

Key Quotes:
1. “We all need a dad.”
2. “I want to help dads be great dads.”
3. “Love the role that you’ve been given.”
4. “What we look for we find more of.”
5. “Everyone is a better person if they play more often.”
6. “If we know that we are loved, we are going to pass more love along.”
7. “If you want to change the world, go home and change your kids lives. And they’ll change the world.” Mother Theresa

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Josiah Venture: https://www.josiahventure.com/
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3pu6Nln
FRGMNT Coffee: https://www.frgmntcoffee.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David hard cider. We have special guests today we’re going to look at a really special aspect of trusted leadership. Thank you for being on the show. Jeff’s og

Jeff Zaugg: Glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation and I love what you’re doing with this podcast.

David Horsager: Well, thank you, it’s, it’s, you know, we’re basically I just get free advice. I get to get to be and become I hope get better all the time with with free advice. I’m sure I’d have to pay

David Horsager: Thousands and thousands of dollars for so I’m glad you’re on because everybody is going to benefit from you. You’re a father of four. You are right, when’s when’s your fourth on the

Jeff Zaugg: Right, yeah.

Jeff Zaugg: Do in April. Our fourth baby girl. So I say, Father, for now, but yeah, we gotta wait till April to meet her.

David Horsager: Right. Awesome. So you’ve been a pastor. And today, I just want to, it’s really exciting. You are the founder of dad awesome and father for the fatherless, give us a few things, you know, three things maybe about Jeff that everybody should know

Jeff Zaugg: Oh, man. Yeah, so I’m grateful again to be on and grateful. I’m continuing to learn in this theme of trust. How do I be a leader who’s trustworthy how my dad that’s trustworthy.

Jeff Zaugg: A few things maybe that some, some of your listeners don’t know i i was a pastor, as you mentioned, for seven years have felt for a long time. Then I. What if I could go full time and help dads be better dads.

Jeff Zaugg: I need to be a better dad every single day. So maybe something your listeners don’t know, Dad. Awesome. I have given myself full time to this mission of helping dads have shiny eyes, and love their role of being a dad.

Jeff Zaugg: So that they might not know another thing I love making rope swing. So turning a normal tree into an epic moment with my little girl, so I’ll give me a rope in any tree and I can make a

Jeff Zaugg: Decent rope swing and then barefoot water skiing is one of my passions. So I love getting out in the lake and I have size 15 feet so it’s it’s cheating.

Jeff Zaugg: They say it’s the same as other people, skiing, but I enjoy getting out in the water.

David Horsager: That is awesome. Speaking of data. Awesome. You know that the funny thing. I’ll tell you really quickly. Last person. I had the opportunity to go barefoot water skiing with bell

David Horsager: Blasted his ear drum

David Horsager: Know, and when they pull him out of the water. He had blood just running out of his ear. So there’s the other side of it, not, not to, you know, that was just that was a visual experience for me because

David Horsager: They were asking me the whole day. Do you want to go barefoot and because we love to water ski here in Minnesota. Right. As you can imagine, but I was like, I don’t think I want to do that. That looks like you fall, really hard.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, avoid that type of an injury. It doesn’t have to be that way.

David Horsager: Well, I think this is really interesting for our leaders, you know, we have

David Horsager: CEOs and SVP and of course we have women and men, but we can learn something here because you know we want to become more and more trusted leaders and the truth is I sit next

David Horsager: To I’ve sat next to presidents of countries and presidents of companies that have imposter syndrome. They don’t want to be found out maybe on their leadership at work, but also the leadership, like I’m able to do this. Okay. But man, my home front is falling apart.

David Horsager: So today we’re going to talk about, you know, you’ve got this this organization that helps dad’s be awesome. Dad awesome and fathers

David Horsager: To the fatherless or fathers for the fatherless I you know I was thinking of something I was had the opportunity to go visit and goal of the, the State Penitentiary of Louisiana.

David Horsager: You know, just invited to

Jeff Zaugg: Visit

David Horsager: Is just get the whole story here. But I remember talking to the warden and and one thing came up. This is years ago I might get the statistic barely wrong but if I’m off I’m off by less than 2%

David Horsager: I said, of all you know these folks, what, what’s the. Is there a commonality right what what’s common to these death row inmates. The these, you know,

David Horsager: It is it is it that you know they’re on drugs are born in a certain place or a certain color of skin. He said, there is a commonality and it beats everything else, by far, in if my memory serves me, he said that, you know, you might have 50% this 60% that he said 96.8 or 98.6

David Horsager: Of these that are in here had no relationship or a bad relationship with their father.

David Horsager: What say you,

Jeff Zaugg: Oh man, I mean, it’s heartbreaking for all of us. There’s no one listening to that does there’s not heartbreak attached to kids not having a dad.

Jeff Zaugg: Who’s showing them love who’s showing them how to do these basic things like we we all need a dad and all of us.

Jeff Zaugg: All of us are waiting for someone to be our guide to help us navigate different seasons, especially those first 18 years so yeah the the statistics around fatherlessness the epidemic that exists.

Jeff Zaugg: Is the reason that I’ve given you know my entire life. Now to saying I want to help dads be great dads.

Jeff Zaugg: It also, though, is the reason to focus on not just intentional fatherhood, but the other side, which is the father list because odds are that whatever you experience you’re going to pass on to your kids someday. So the

Jeff Zaugg: These, these kids in our case, we help out with orphanages around the on the other side of the globe, and we help out with women’s shelters here in Minneapolis like

Jeff Zaugg: These kids are likely going to do this, go the same path statistics show that as well.

Jeff Zaugg: So yeah, the heartbreak is real and the it’s easy for a dad to think I’m doing okay I’ll survive this season. I’m not, I’m not breaking my kids hearts. I’m not causing direct paint them, but in under the theme of trust.

Jeff Zaugg: A trustworthy father that just says, instead of surviving the dad life instead of making it through. If they turn the calibrates and dials and say, no, I’m going to, I’m going to prioritize this area of my life because it ripples the home life.

Jeff Zaugg: Ripples into again, whatever the thing is. You’re chasing the other passions, the business, the enterprise, whatever the thing is. So, so my

Jeff Zaugg: My, my passion is to help remind dads be a cheerleader of this is central and everyone that I interview because I get to host a podcast as well. Everyone in the grandparents season in the 60s.

Jeff Zaugg: Or 70s, all of them say, no matter how intentionally. Where’s the dad. I wish I could go back in my 30s and 40s and turn those dials of intentionality up so so yeah it’s heartbreaking. But it’s also very possible for for all of us. Dads to step in to way more intentionality.

David Horsager: On that front. Well, I think we named the podcast will put it in the show notes.

Jeff Zaugg: At her. Yeah, it’s called dead. Awesome.

David Horsager: So perfectly fine. Yeah.

David Horsager: Yeah, and I’ve had the privilege of being on it. But you’ll see that in the show notes dead awesome is easy to find on its own but trusted leader show.com

David Horsager: You know I I brought you on today because you know we have we have all these leaders, people are, you know, entrepreneurs and business leaders and you know moms, dads influencers and I think there’s a reminder here for everybody.

David Horsager: Some on this show listening will feel like, Yeah, I didn’t have a dad. I didn’t have someone fathering me

David Horsager: But others have a great opportunity. Mom or Dad. They have an incredible opportunity and they’re running a great business and they’re leading an organization, they might be governor’s senators presence.

David Horsager: But, but they are missing it at home. And so I want to just positive. What do you tell people what’s the first step you got these you want people to be dad awesome or dads to be data. So, what, what’s the step they can start to take to to be more intentional.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, because it is just one step at a time. And there’s a path we talked about

Jeff Zaugg: The down this path of becoming dead awesome, right, because no one has arrived. And there are no people are like, I’ve got this all figured out. But we we think in from again the guests. I’ve interviewed from research.

Jeff Zaugg: That the first step of being dad. Awesome. Or again, you got moms listening. You got aunts and uncles that like just being an awesome influence on these on these kids is to love the role that you’ve been given. So every dad.

Jeff Zaugg: Has been given a role of being a dad and they love that role. Even if a man is hard is overwhelming. It is, I have

Jeff Zaugg: Multiple times today not shown that, I love that role. But if we love being a dad our kids experience a dad who

Jeff Zaugg: His eyes are shining who he’s been president. If you love the role, then you’re going to be a way better dad. So that’s where it actually starts is is loving

Jeff Zaugg: The fact that you are a data it because what we look for. We find more of, if any, anytime we’re focused on this thing. It’s like, you know, you get a car that

Jeff Zaugg: I’m a Jeep Wrangler guy someday I’ll have a Jeep Wrangler again and it when I’m shopping

Jeff Zaugg: Shopping some day for my for Dodge, Jeep Wrangler which is tough with four kids. Now I heard there is a conversion kit, though, that you can turn

Jeff Zaugg: Into a third row. So that’s the side you’ll spot them though right you’ll spot them all over on the roads.

Jeff Zaugg: Shopping for when you see him everywhere. I didn’t know there’s that many Jeep wranglers and Minnesota. So in the same way. If you’re looking for opportunities to really find that joy. Find the shiny eyes, to engage because you love being a dad so that’s that’s one side of a first step.

David Horsager: So let’s jump, let’s take a step back from it because I know I know leaders. I walk with leaders I consult with and coach privately leaders that share with me. You know, they love their job. They love their work, they’re passionate about their work.

David Horsager: They actually in their heart. Want to be a good dad.

David Horsager: But they don’t love it. Right. So how do you say, oh, just love it. Come on, just just just love that role when they actually don’t love that role.

David Horsager: Especially in certain periods of time. Some would say when they’re, you know, six months old. Some might say teenagers, but they want to do a good job. They want to leave a great legacy, but they just do not love it. How can they start to love it. How can

David Horsager: Definitely

Jeff Zaugg: Part of why I think parents sometimes don’t love the role the season there in is because there’s no immediate results, especially for guys.

Jeff Zaugg: You’re looking for quantifiable Q1 this year. What a god. What am I going to accomplish and and i have

Jeff Zaugg: I’ve had long period, six months 12 months 18 months with with some of my daughters that I’m like I’m not seeing the breakthrough in any tangible way like oh

Jeff Zaugg: I’ve clicked a few notches better. I’m more dead awesome today that I was I’m enjoying it more so because of that deferred

Jeff Zaugg: Different outcomes or deferred like I hit a goal or I’m moving forward that you get on the business front you get in the workplace.

Jeff Zaugg: I think we have to commit to increasing the hours that we’re connecting with our hearts that were present with them.

Jeff Zaugg: That we’re playing with them. I didn’t play is huge. I think everyone is a better person if they play more often. So no matter what your profession is what industry you lead within if you play more if you have an area that you play you laugh that you’re, again, you’re

Jeff Zaugg: Something about playing. There’s a lot of research around this topic I’m still researching more on

Jeff Zaugg: If we if we commit as dads to play twice as much as we did last year, this coming year with our kids that that might only mean

Jeff Zaugg: That you increase a little look for a few more moments to play with your kids if you play more you’ll love

Jeff Zaugg: It. You’ll love being a dad more like if you just play with your kids more so there’s a little bit of we have to choose before we see the outcomes.

Jeff Zaugg: The, the inputs and in this case it’s time. And if you double up as a dad. We talked about doubling down double down and your dad life if you double down and you go from a two hour per day dad to a four hour per day, Dad.

Jeff Zaugg: And their stats that most ads are less than both those. But if you went from two hours to four hours over the course of 18 years you gain 13,000 more hours of time inputting

Jeff Zaugg: You know, you’re, you’re all that you have as far as your wisdom, your connection your guidance. So that’s, that’s our hope is that dad’s Double Down gets the exercise 13 hours.

Jeff Zaugg: 13,000 hours.

Jeff Zaugg: And then they will love it more if they if they

David Horsager: So let’s get, let’s get real for the folks listening to and I know I, you know,

David Horsager: Some people say, I’m very pretty intentional. I was intentional about some things I do with my kids growing up and I

David Horsager: am so grateful for these these four kiddos and an amazing wife, which has helped me be a better dad, at least, and there’s certainly challenges. I can tell you a conversation I had with

David Horsager: A teenager last night that I don’t think I did did actually very well. So I’m not perfect, any of this stuff. But what about someone like me that, you know, and tell code you’re flying 200 flights a year or

David Horsager: 190 flights a year round, round trip. Maybe 100 flights a year and you feel called to THIS WORK FOR ME. INCREASING trust around the world from corruption issues to

David Horsager: pro sports teams to presidents of companies and if you’ll call to that you’re not there certainly have some regrets early on.

David Horsager: I changed some things. So I start flying kids with me. So they see how do you treat the flight attendant. How do you do this, I started doing something where I i

David Horsager: Video my kid send a video encouragement, a little Bible verse in the encouragement to my kids every morning when I was on the road.

David Horsager: And they would open it be excited about it.

David Horsager: You know, and something’s lasted for a time like that, that kind of thing wants some of more older teens.

David Horsager: I had to do some different things but but what do you do like I could say, well, I’m just going to not have my job. I’m not have this call. I’m not gonna do this thing, but

David Horsager: You have to be traveling, you have to do these things. How do you be intentional in the midst of for some listening, the very high demand.

David Horsager: Roles that they have. You think of a senator listening that has to be in DC, however many days a year. And yet we’re grateful that we have some good senators. Some might argue with me here, but some good congress and then women you know in office, pushing

David Horsager: For good in the world. You know what, what are we going to do

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, so, and I believe you know Greg McEwen wrote the book essential ism and thinking around what are the things that are truly essential

Jeff Zaugg: And within the scope of life. So you could say again, as we talked with people that are two decades three decades older than me. They would say, yep. Dad, life is essential. It was an area that if I put inputs there.

Jeff Zaugg: They ripple effect out into making me more effective and these other areas. Now back to your travel question, taking the essential list approach to dad life.

Jeff Zaugg: I do believe you can you can while traveling like some of the examples, you’ve shared you can you can maximize heart connection with your kids maximize moments of encouragement and affirmation words.

Jeff Zaugg: Spoken over them. That really guide them in the right way, using FaceTime using zoom using a notes, text messaging, but also when you’re home.

Jeff Zaugg: Really if we believe that this is one of the most important roles that we have. If we believe it. And if we believe it actually affects our

Jeff Zaugg: Our life in our 60s, 70s, 80s, I didn’t. I do believe this that by the focuses the deposits that I’m making today.

Jeff Zaugg: The joy level that I’m an experienced and walk in, in my 60s, 70s, 80s versus so many of you here. Somebody heartbreaking stories people in their 60s, 70s, 80s, with so much regret so much heartbreak and pain and and conflict between kids and grandkids.

Jeff Zaugg: So that’s what I would say fight not not don’t cheat the job to be a great dad. I don’t think being dead also means you have to fail in the in the other. In fact, I think awesome dads thrive, because they’ve done. What’s essential

Jeff Zaugg: And that has spilled into Greg McEwen talks about protects the asset or physical body it because this. If this fails.

Jeff Zaugg: All the other things fail. I think almost in the same way, your family on the home front if you don’t protect that by carving the time

Jeff Zaugg: It will ripple into and other areas will become toxic because you’ve got that going on in the hole and you care so deeply for these kids and the kids are

Jeff Zaugg: Not again. Not that if you do the right inputs. You don’t still have pain or struggle or your perfect on the home front but that would be me like talking back around the travel side.

David Horsager: I love it. And of course it was, you know, it’s something I’ve changed. I’ve changed how I’ve done, I’ve changed how much I’ve done it and not just you know we had frameworks.

David Horsager: In place even when I was traveling more in those last several years, but I remember early on.

David Horsager: You know when I started my first business in 1999 I came back from being Director of an organization and we poured everything we had into it.

David Horsager: Let you know for two years. I lived in the basement of 86 year old Clara Miller’s black mold. No windows bathroom or kitchen.

David Horsager: And illegal. We didn’t even know was illegal lease and I lived there we figured, you know, we basically we’re down to $1 40 to our name.

David Horsager: After paying are urgent bills that first October, and we thought it was a thing of, we will take anything we can get for work, right.

David Horsager: And of course, things changed over time. And over the years, but we kind of lost everything a couple different times and so

David Horsager: I then I started being more what you could say, in a way, successful and you’re traveling more but but she had kind of had this fear thing of like

David Horsager: Oh, I better do that to provide for the family. And I think people can get in this trap of they’re gone to provide without providing the emotional and leadership support and spiritual support that needs to happen. And once you know that’s a big wake up call for some of us that, you know,

David Horsager: Those are just as important as physical needs.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, and I think most of our dads. Most of our parents and grandparents, the provider side was the primary like that was you’re rocking it as a dad. If you can do to provide inside and we’re just, I think we’re just realizing cultures even embracing

Jeff Zaugg: That present dad’s dads that are conducting gets dads are doing one on ones with their sons or daughters like it to the playground like those are

Jeff Zaugg: It’s generally applauded by our culture today, which is so good, but we didn’t have any example to follow. Because right likely we didn’t see that from our parents.

David Horsager: Alright, let’s jump over the producer Kent, what question do you have today for Jeff ZOG

David Horsager: So I was wondering if there’s maybe a leader you were talking about like there’s a lot of people that maybe didn’t have a good

David Horsager: father figure in their life. Now they’re a father. How can they like who can they turn to, like, Who are people that how can they find like maybe other people that are great dads that could help.

David Horsager: Kind of show them how to be a good dad when they haven’t really had that example before in their life. Yeah.

Jeff Zaugg: Great question, because I mean if we’re trying to figure this out from scratch, we’re in. We’re in huge trouble. So I love your question, Kent and

Jeff Zaugg: The, the hope is through mentoring, but through peer mentors for me it’s pure mentors and as mentors that are a couple a decade, two decades ahead of me, or even just older kids, I’d be peer mentors, with just a little older kids, but I think

Jeff Zaugg: So brotherhood friendships, if we don’t have. And I have this in my neighborhood. I have a dad right over the fence that I’m like he’s

Jeff Zaugg: In so many ways I’ve learned so much just by watching these interaction moments. So I think if we have a lens on

Jeff Zaugg: Of we’re gathering and we’re, we’re trying to gather the best of what we’re seeing again from these mentors. You can do it from books from podcasts as well but

Jeff Zaugg: intentionality. I found myself with a four year old daughter. I had listened to zero podcast on fatherhood and being a better dad read zero books had met with zero mentors on the topic specifically a fatherhood. I was chasing

Jeff Zaugg: Growth Nerium entrepreneurship and leadership and management and personal finance and I was

Jeff Zaugg: Fitness all these other areas, but I wasn’t in my dad life. And I think that’s the case for a lot of a lot of us, we could forget on the parenting side to put intentionality.

Jeff Zaugg: Of taking that person out to coffee or setting up a zoom call or reading a book like there’s ways to pursue both peer mentors around the topic of fatherhood.

Jeff Zaugg: And mentors down the road, but we have to carve the time and we have to pursue that. So that’s probably the biggest thing. I’m a cheerleader for. I’m like, man, if you have a friend circle you can learn from and you’re learning from people a step ahead. I mean, you’re

Jeff Zaugg: You’re going to be just fine. Okay.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah dads that say I’m going after it are going to are going to really calibrate in a positive way.

David Horsager: Having a band of brothers or sisters in life.

David Horsager: For for for guys probably a band of brothers, but I’m going to come back to that in a moment. But this reminds me of something, somebody said to me, a long time ago and and parenting and marriage are similar.

David Horsager: A mentor of mine said if people would spend as much on their marriage in the first five years as they do on the wedding day. Their marriage would be better. They go into this. They don’t learn. They haven’t really

David Horsager: Done a deep study on marriage, and yet that’s going to be a huge massive most important relationship and their life. And by the same token, on parenting people go to lamaze class and they spend time on this, you know,

David Horsager: The birth, like we got a birth plan. We got that baby’s coming out. A lot of times, either way. Right, that’s going to happen, whether it’s perfect or not. I’m not. I’m not. I mean, I should, you know,

David Horsager: With with gratitude to my wife for the for the for the huge massive effort and pain, but I mean I’m just saying that’s going to happen. The bigger pain is the next, you know, 18 or more or hundred years, right. So,

David Horsager: If we, I think he said if you would spend as much time on your parenting as you do on the birth, you will have a chance at winning at parenting right

Jeff Zaugg: Yes, yes, the compounded interest analogy for me is massive because I I was given a gift. About three quarters of my college education by my grandpa amazing generous gift and that amount of money though.

Jeff Zaugg: If I would have instead of paying for college. If I would have put that money into Apple stock in 2001

Jeff Zaugg: Here we are 819 years later that money would be. It’s like $17 million. The $60,000 right so I if I would have known that. In hindsight, the compounded impact of that financial decision of just take the loans out and work them off and invest here, right.

Jeff Zaugg: But we know this in parenting. We know that as parents, the compounded impact of investing the time and the heart and the education and the learning and the online course or whatever the things are

Jeff Zaugg: We know the compounded impact is like an apple stack it ripples into our kids and our kids, kids. And we just, we just know it. And anyone we talked to in their 70s.

Jeff Zaugg: Will say that is the Apple stock. It’s putting our time there versus other pursuits other areas, but again, because

Jeff Zaugg: Because most of us think we’re not doing a good job as a dad, I feel that way all the time we we kind of just try to survive. It’s and that’s, again, just me cheering on that it’s, it is the compounded impact. It is the it’s the goldmine it’s the apple stack.

David Horsager: I love it. So a couple things I, you know, think about is I want to get better as a dad. I want to get better as a husband. I want to get better as a leader, all the time. So we started right our second year of marriage. We started going to marriage conferences and it’s been a good little

David Horsager: You know, kind of jolt every, every time we do to help us be better. We’ve gone to things as far as parenting from connected families to others. I think you have something and not to put an advertisement in here. We didn’t talk about that but but

David Horsager: What, what, what do you do to help dads, you know, get better.

Jeff Zaugg: Yes, we have. I mean, a couple opportunities on the dead awesome side of of just resourcing we created a framework for part framework for fatherhood.

Jeff Zaugg: And it’s a it’s called the adding life to the dad life framework just spells life so I I am loved just that, hey, we have to start with just knowing if we love our

Jeff Zaugg: There’s all kinds of research on this, if we if we know that we are loved. We’re going to pass more love along so so I’m loved. I am intentional. I am free. So, free from just past

Jeff Zaugg: Man past struggles things that hold us back the other direction. And then I am engaged. So we have a four part framework again to helping invite dads into our goal is at the end of that four step framework, you can find us at dad awesome.org is to

Jeff Zaugg: See a dad who truly enjoys being a dad, which is where we started the first question. So I yeah that framework. And then, and then we have a bike ride 100 mile bike ride that we invite people into a dad’s into

David Horsager: I’m committed to going right next this coming one I made the commitment, so

Jeff Zaugg: We’re thinking. Let me we’re in Washington, DC. We’re in Philadelphia, New York, Cocoa Beach, Florida, Minneapolis Denver. We’re all over the place. Now these rides, but you’re doing the Minneapolis one

Jeff Zaugg: Where we’re mobilizing dads to ride their bikes 100 miles for kids that don’t have a dad fathers for the fatherless, and we’re our prayer. Our goal is to raise a million dollars this year for the fatherless.

David Horsager: So we were going to help you do that. And so I hope gonna blow it away, but I’d love to.

David Horsager: Bike along and side anybody would like to do that next. August 28 I believe it is so you can find that on the site and I made that commitment.

David Horsager: Also, so let’s jump back to something I think it’s important no matter who you are as a leader.

David Horsager: No matter if you’re a mother or a father, but this is critical to being a great leader or a great father and that’s mentorship or kind of finding this group of guys and I think you know I shared it on your podcast.

David Horsager: A massive part of any success that I enjoy is because of four guys we started, I think it was 27 or 28 years ago in college junior year

David Horsager: You know meeting together every Thursday night and asking questions spring each other on how are you

David Horsager: How are you treating that in those days that Girlfriend Are you are you being the gentleman you want to be. How are you doing with that leadership and now we’re all running companies or organizations and

David Horsager: And but we still meet every single year for five days.

David Horsager: We sharpen each other. It’s not just to go have fun up at a cabin in northern Minnesota is go up to have Kevin and northern Minnesota, but we

David Horsager: We. How are you doing, is that we kind of have these it changed a little bit. But we have had about 54 questions that each dat each guy answers.

David Horsager: For about three or four hours each day. I think of all that time get through a guy a day or whatever it is. And we do some fun stuff too, but that time has been monumental for us, staying the course.

David Horsager: Both what we would say onstage and offstage in our business for me. I often have a literal stage, but whatever your stages as a leader.

David Horsager: It’s, it’s kind of how how we how we staying the course onstage and offstage at home with our kids, I’m not perfect at all. But I can tell you the best of me is

David Horsager: Largely because of that group of guys that have helped me stay the course. So I can’t kind of encourage enough that point of having a group

David Horsager: A team and accountability group and of course for business. I have a different kind of mastermind group and for, you know, there’s some of these other groups. We can be a part of that help us sharpen each other. But that’s been monumental to me.

David Horsager: What can you say to encourage people to find a group like that if they don’t have one, where they can be authentic and open and where it can be valuable.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, cuz I mean that just like you know you hear about people.

Jeff Zaugg: The it can feel like you’re almost back to like a dating really like it can feel intimidating to go make a deeper friendship. I know a lot of people that said, I tried the softball team. I tried that thing and

Jeff Zaugg: It’s awkward because you put yourself in a spot where you want to pursue a friendship, let’s get together and play disc golf. Let’s do this thing.

Jeff Zaugg: And it’s not reciprocated. It’s like, oh, man, I guess I’m not a good friend. I

Jeff Zaugg: Encourage when it comes to forming deep friendships, the most easy low pressure way to find some, you know, another another dad another guy another

Jeff Zaugg: Friend is to pursue peer mentors. So when you find someone that you’re like hey, it’s a

Jeff Zaugg: It’s a neighbor down the road or it’s a colleague that you want to just get to know a little more to see, hey, can we be mutually encouraging each other to become better dads better leaders more trustworthy.

Jeff Zaugg: I encourage find something about their life. You want to learn from. So it’s their parenting. It’s there.

Jeff Zaugg: Hey, they’re good at doing home projects construction skills, their carpentry. It’s there. They do triathlons and you you’re interested in doing triathlon.

Jeff Zaugg: You ask that person to sit in your camp fire or to have a phone call or to grab a cup of coffee.

Jeff Zaugg: A one time ask for a small amount of time around one specific topic takes all the pressure down because now they’ve already they feel honored

Jeff Zaugg: And like you respect them and you think they’re a good dad or you think, hey, they’re good on the personal finance side or whatever the area of life. You want to learn

Jeff Zaugg: State. It’s ask him for that time. And then after you’ve had that conversation, come back around. And so this is almost it feels like I’m getting dating advice. Right.

Jeff Zaugg: That it works because then a month later, or six weeks later, you reach out again. Hey, we just grab a cup of coffee. Again, you want to

Jeff Zaugg: go shoot some hoops talk again, I’d love to learn more from you, what you find, though, is

Jeff Zaugg: As you pursue learning and you reciprocate back. They see you’re taking action and areas are encouraging. They actually feel great about themselves, because they’re like I’m helping someone

Jeff Zaugg: And I did that with my closest circle of friends over the course of a year five buddies and then I brought the group together and we started cooking breakfast together at 530 in the morning and we formed a group and

Jeff Zaugg: That didn’t cost much one guy brought a dozen eggs each week and we made eggs and we talked about life, just like the group you have, but it took a year of me intentionally

Jeff Zaugg: Pursuing those guys. And those are the guys

Jeff Zaugg: That put their arm around me and cried with me this last year, my, my dad went home to heaven. So he died. This last year and this group of guys carried me they brought food for my family while I was up in northern Wisconsin driving back and forth in the last month.

Jeff Zaugg: It was it changed everything about the trajectory of how I went through hardship, because of this group of guys, but it did not happen accidentally

David Horsager: Yeah, I just can’t emphasize this enough that this we so often see people thinking independence, especially guys I’m doing it on my own. I’m

David Horsager: I’m self made nobody self made the research shows, by the way, and this whole idea this ego that we do it on our own. It’s, it’s not the way forward. And so I love that. I love that, by the way.

David Horsager: Another thing is what you just said about mentorship programs like I think

David Horsager: The reason most mentorship programs fail in companies is because there’s this massive commitment ahead of time. Like, am I even gonna like that person. I’ve got a sign up for 12 sessions or whatever. It’s like

David Horsager: I love this idea of just, hey, go out once you can be mentored in a moment, one time and then have it leads to something else. Great, and might be an ongoing thing but take the pressure off and I love that idea. What are you, what are you doing right now to learn and grow yourself.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, I, I would say in a few categories I audible has been a game changer. So my listening to books has been a game changer. The last few years.

Jeff Zaugg: But I’ve tried to go about one for one reading and listening reading a paper book and listening. So I would say

Jeff Zaugg: On the learning side, it’s been in that category of books and and then on the other side is just growing I think jumping in an area that I’m over my head and learning as I go my podcast is

Jeff Zaugg: Is an example of that. I mean, starting a new nonprofit organization isn’t it so

Jeff Zaugg: Just putting myself always at the edge of what’s comfortable or actually I take leaps past were comfortable

Jeff Zaugg: Because I just know that I’m gonna get I’m gonna learn so much by doing that, and I’ll be desperate for mentorship. I mean, every shout to you what two months ago, I was like, I just need an hour of your time to talk about this and this and this.

Jeff Zaugg: So I would say, I’m in that place of often I’m in over my head and I need help from others. And then I tried it on a consistent side of the reading learning. So probably those two sides, maybe the last one. I’d mentioned is I try to get alone.

Jeff Zaugg: To a cabin in the woods about once a quarter to just take long walks and to take time to I slept 13 hours this last one I just went up a week ago to a place called wilderness

Jeff Zaugg: Fellowship and in Wisconsin, the idea of just Silent Retreat time slow it down maybe bring a book, maybe just a journal and take that long hike sometimes fall through a hole in the ice and a bog which may have happened. It was a little

Jeff Zaugg: Cold, but the slowing that’s just very countercultural right now.

David Horsager: To get

Jeff Zaugg: To take time away from the hustle. But I think that’s the investments that multiplies into effectiveness and clarity in so many other areas of life on the home front and on the work side. So, so, yeah, that that would be another encouragement.

David Horsager: You know that makes me think of something just for the first time popped up in my head a mentor of mine Sherm Svensson through college. So

David Horsager: You know the pre many don’t know this, they think target just came out of nowhere but target corporation used to be Dayton Hudson Corporation. Okay.

David Horsager: And those of us in Minneapolis know the Dayton’s downtown and Dayton’s was the big, you know, the Big Store. It was it was it was a massive company seven different business units. The, the big

David Horsager: Their CEO of Dayton Hudson jewelers and Dayton Hudson this date hands of that. And so Sherm at the time he got asked to be CEO of just one of those seven

David Horsager: At the end, he was dating hutch and jewelers he was a CEO now and the, the, you know, he’s like, I gotta make my I gotta do my stuff and the overall CEO said to him after one year at the Job said

David Horsager: How many days. Have you taken off its terms Sherm said none like I’m here, I’m all in. And the CEO said, do you think I’m doing a bad job, the overall CEO said, No, no, sir.

David Horsager: You think I’m not doing everything I need to do. No. You think I’m not present. No, he said. Then how is it that I’m able to take every single day of my seven days of vacation I seven weeks seven weeks of vacation.

David Horsager: And you couldn’t take a single location and you call yourself a CEO. And from that day.

David Horsager: Sherm served by the way later became the CEO of Dayton Hudson corporation overall right before it became target.

David Horsager: He was an amazing CEO, he gave his time at the university, then I’m on the board of now, but I’m in his later years to be the CFO.

David Horsager: Basically voluntarily. And that’s where I was very fortunate to be one of very few students to be mentored by him, but I remember later as when he became by the time he he became CEO.

David Horsager: Of all of Dayton Hudson. He said, every spring and every fall. He takes two weeks now. Not everybody can do this right at his home on the beach in Florida.

David Horsager: And he said that I take and I have the same rhythm of those four weeks I get up in the morning I get up an hour later than normal five in the morning, instead of four in the morning.

David Horsager: I go for a walk on the beach always with my notebook.

David Horsager: And then I read all morning. And then in the afternoon I spend with my wife and we golf and go out for dinner. I go to bed early I come in. I read I

David Horsager: Get up in the morning, an hour late I walk on the beach. I read all morning.

David Horsager: And he said that time is what gave him some of the best ideas to deal with the big challenges so that that time of getting away. I think is critical. And you know I

David Horsager: I practiced that to some degree. I’m always learning the practice things more, but I’ve had some amazing times away that have

David Horsager: led to great things. And I’ve certainly needed and even have helped me solve things. So it’s this is kind of fun because getting away as important, our community. It’s important. They seem like opposites, but they’re not you kind of need both. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Zaugg: I I’m such a fan of George Washington Carver is another example just legendary example of taking walks in the woods and all of his breakthroughs came from the walks. Yeah, so

David Horsager: I think

David Horsager: Right, Prime Minister Churchill. I think he was known for

David Horsager: What did they, what did he called it learning by walking around. Yeah, he got something like that so

David Horsager: Interesting. Well, let’s uh, let’s move into here. I want to talk about your is the nonprofit father for the fatherless.

Jeff Zaugg: Yes, right now, both we’re not sure if it’ll be two organizations or one but two fathers for the fatherless is the, yeah. Is this mission of activating dads.

Jeff Zaugg: To raise money and awareness for kids without dad so fathers for the files around bike rides and runs will do a run this year as well.

Jeff Zaugg: In fact, I think it could become more than that, but just dads need something to do versus let’s process our thoughts and our feelings so so that’s where we’re just like, Let’s engage dad’s help them plug into that mission.

Jeff Zaugg: When, when a dad is plugged into a mission and doing something hard their kids. Notice, something’s different about my dad, he’s not just

Jeff Zaugg: Going to work and coming home and surviving so so that’s the whole point is to kind of stoke up a fire of being on mission as a dad and accomplish something potentially the hardest thing that dad has done.

Jeff Zaugg: Since they became a Dad could be 200 miles and the kids get to cheer mind see him see him suffer see him sweat and they know that, hey, it’s not just because they had wants to be in good shape, but he’s doing it for kids that don’t have a dad.

David Horsager: I love it. And speaking of shape. You’re in great shape and you know my story. I lost 52 pounds and five and a half months at one point and

David Horsager: It made a huge difference in my life I was an athlete in college and before. And then, you know, start writing books and leading in some ways in some things change. And I said, I gotta change something, but how do you stay fit.

Jeff Zaugg: Oh, man. Well, I mentioned rope swings, right, the

Jeff Zaugg: Right. The good rope swing. Sometimes you have to throw that rope and over like 50 times

Jeff Zaugg: Branch know it’s i i do think

Jeff Zaugg: Activity with the family is part of it. So, so by taking the girls out, putting all three and a sled and towing them around the block a few times.

Jeff Zaugg: Now I do early morning walks. I try to get out five get out for a two mile walk in the morning. So just fresh here first before screens is a principle that I learned from a mentor.

Jeff Zaugg: The, the stain and shape those not a gym membership that you can see the bike behind me. I do have a bike on a little trainer, so I can in the wintertime cycle.

Jeff Zaugg: Overall though, I would not say health and fitness is like a central passion of mine, but I love being active and playing. So if I can make it play versus make it grind it out.

Jeff Zaugg: Then I stay active and stay in shape, so that’s that’s the key for me or the other principle is find something that I don’t know much about to put myself in the edge of scary. And then I have to like

Jeff Zaugg: I have to train enough to stay healthy doing it. So if I commit myself to something with some other brothers that that nudges me forward. So those

David Horsager: Commit commitments, huge, like when I commit to a triathlon.

David Horsager: I got. Oh man, I gotta get ready for it, even though I don’t like to really I don’t really like love to swim run or bike, but for some reason you know that commitment.

David Horsager: That was funny one that brings back to, for me, one of the motivations for the weight loss and of course I had to figure out a way to do this ongoing now. It’s been a decade.

David Horsager: So that’s good. But I am I said to my staff at the time. I shook hands in front of people. If I don’t lose this weight. I’ll give you each of you. What was 20 $500 you remember this.

David Horsager: Yes, it says, and my and I that was I didn’t have much money at the time. This is like, I’m like, you know, in my wife’s like, what are you doing

David Horsager: But I knew if I set it out loud, and I made a commitment I would figure out a way because I knew I couldn’t be paying this 20 $500 you know to people.

David Horsager: For not making that commitment and basically I to make that commitment. I had to lose 40 pounds which, you know, then I kept going a little bit because I learned it would be healthier to have a little more off. But, but, um, I made it my three pounds.

Jeff Zaugg: Yes, that money.

Jeff Zaugg: When you were gonna follow through, because it’s a big dollar amount. You can’t afford it. You got to find through

Jeff Zaugg: But also I mean the investment of our health. I mean, that ripples into what energy it ripples in our marriage is gonna be healthier. Our kids are like we just know that that side of stay active stay fit.

Jeff Zaugg: Do not let that area go because that area will ripple into every, every other area. So that’s huge.

David Horsager: That’s you’ve inspired me though I don’t love to run. I’ll do certain things. There’s something but bringing it into something I like, like I just want to think about, you know, is there a way I could get back to playing basketball with people that are, you know, an older group.

David Horsager: That would do that because I just love that and I haven’t played for a decade, but doing something I’d love that would get me up that would get me excited about it and

David Horsager: You know, like some people like to play golf. I love to fly fish or whatever, you know, finding some I love with it would be fun to do more. So find something you love

David Horsager: To do, or something that can be playful and seemed like it sticks a lot better. And that makes sense.

David Horsager: All right. Hey. This has been great. There’s so much more we could ask, but let’s get to the lightning round because it’s time so quick questions quick answers. What’s your favorite book or resource right now, or one of them.

Jeff Zaugg: So I’m reading and I know he’s another guest of yours, but I’m reading when the day by Mark Patterson and it’s it’s it’s messing with me and it’s messing in some of the themes of grief.

Jeff Zaugg: And how we take what’s happened in the past of hardships and we activate that towards something good that we actually don’t have to let it hold us back. There’s a new beautiful path forward even if there’s loss. So when the day, it’s about daily disciplines, Mark Patterson.

David Horsager: He’s got several great books and we’re excited to have him on. He’s booked and going to be on before along, but that’s a

David Horsager: Phenomena. It’s not just a guy that writes books and cranks out books he’s a guy that writes books that has something to say. And every one of them something different, something inspiring and something valuable so super excited about that. What’s something you can’t live without.


Jeff Zaugg: Got it right here, a good cup of coffee. I mean, I do the poor over

David Horsager: It’s kind of late here in the day. For this, we’re recording. I mean, you’re just you’re, you’re, is it an all day long thing.

Jeff Zaugg: Well, and it’s it’s it’s drink some really good coffee fragment COFFEE IN THE NORTH LOOP I brewed it up by pour over 10 x. And yes, so coffee is is pretty high on the list of can’t live without.

All right.

David Horsager: Best advice or quote

Jeff Zaugg: Man, if you want to change the world go home and change your kids lives and they’ll change the world. Mother Teresa yeah that quote

David Horsager: What they love it want to change your world. We got to say that say that real clear again.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. Do you want to change the world go home and change the lives of

Jeff Zaugg: Go home and change the lives of your family like your kids and your wife, you have

Jeff Zaugg: To change the world.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: The

David Horsager: Change the lives of your family. There you go.

David Horsager: One thing left on your bucket list.

Jeff Zaugg: I have not spoken this publicly

David Horsager: It’s time.

Jeff Zaugg: I want to do I want to accomplish an Iron Man Yeah, so I wanna, I want to knock off the Iron Man, I think it’s my daughter’s gonna be a little older, but it’s on the bucket list and i’m not i’m not

David Horsager: Saying go out there and man is you taught this is it’s a time. It is a commitment I know several people

David Horsager: And, you know, even when my wife doing marathons. It’s like that’s a ton of time. So you try, you put these things together, running a company or an organization doing IT doing a

David Horsager: 20 hours a week of training for a triathlon and trying to be a good dad this mix gets challenging, but that’s that’s the mix, right.

Jeff Zaugg: I think it’s older when they’re in high school, junior high, so they can bike, along with me when I think there’s some participation. Well, I run their biking or their kayaking next to me swim. And I think that’s the way it’s going to happen.

David Horsager: Right, put one on your back while you swim those two miles.

David Horsager: Well, I have a gold mine is due to do the half in Kona

Jeff Zaugg: Together.

David Horsager: Just a half try half right. I think I

David Horsager: Get there but

Jeff Zaugg: Alright, half Iron Man, you said

David Horsager: I mean half fire.

Jeff Zaugg: Oh yeah, that’s a bigger step.

David Horsager: Yeah, yeah, much, much bigger. Yeah. So I got a little bit to do but that’s something I’d be motivated by so hey where. Can everybody hear about learn more about you will put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com where, where can we find out about you and connect

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. The easiest way is dad awesome.org so stat awesome.org and I would love to. Yeah, just welcome any of your amazing audience to engage in more the intentional fatherhood resources that we create. That’d be amazing.

David Horsager: And we don’t promote many other you know things on this, on this podcast but I’m so passionate about fatherhood, too, I think. And I just think what you’re doing is so amazing and tremendous and I think

David Horsager: We often think of how we’re going to change the world with our mission and our case of developing trusted leaders and organizations around the world or or in in in whatever it is we’re called to do but

David Horsager: If we if we’re a dad a father or a mother and not doing that role. Well, we are doing a disservice to the world and our greatest legacy is in those at home and so

David Horsager: I’m just, I’m grateful for the work you’re doing. And I’m so happy to share it with the world because I believe this is really the way to trusted leadership ongoing So hey, it’s the trusted leader show. So it’s the last question for you, who is a leader you trust and why

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, so my he was my youth pastor Mel Allenwood is now running a church planting organization in Eastern Europe, and he

Jeff Zaugg: He showed this is why I trust him. Is he said he saw something in me and said,

Jeff Zaugg: I want to invite you into in this case it was playing the acoustic guitar and leading songs leading worship, but he saw something in me and made my eye shine by welcoming me into that place.

Jeff Zaugg: And I will forever trust him because he showed that he believed in me and he’s never, you know, he hasn’t let me down in the side of broken trust but I

Jeff Zaugg: I often have people say, who’s that leader that really affected the trajectory of my life. Mel Ellen would

Jeff Zaugg: Josiah ventures is the organization. He runs and it’s because again. And we can do this. So people in our lives, we can find someone see something’s the glimmer of something in them and we can speak way more life over them, we can

Jeff Zaugg: We can give them opportunities lift them up and it will send them on a different trajectory and that’s so that’s why I trust and appreciate him.

David Horsager: I love it. My wife has a saying it’s affected me a lot in it’s affected our, our parenting and I wish I would be better at it consistently, but she says, see the good say the good share the good

David Horsager: So if you see a kid doing something good. See a friend up an employee see say that you know you can speak life and and i think

David Horsager: Bernie Brown said what if they have people have to feel like they belong before they believe differently before they’ll behave differently. And it’s like, See that good share that good and you have a chance. I have a chance at changing the trajectory of others and so

David Horsager: You know what, Jeff. You’ve made me better. You may be a better dad a better person and I just thank you for that. And I thank you for our relatively new, but growing friendship and so

Jeff Zaugg: Thank you so much for having me on. Honor to join you and love everything you’re doing I’m cheering for you.

David Horsager: Well, thank you. Likewise. It’s been the trusted leader show. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 7: Greg Feasel on The Value of Serving Others

In this episode, David sits down with Greg Feasel, COO of the Colorado Rockies, to discuss the value of serving others.

Greg’s Bio:
Greg Feasel is in his 26th year with the Colorado Rockies and 11th as chief operating officer. In this role, Feasel manages all aspects of the organization’s business operations, including all revenue areas, customer service, ticket sales and operations, corporate partnerships, communications, marketing, broadcasting, community affairs, merchandising, promotions, special events, private suites and party facilities, information systems, human resources, ballpark operations and capital improvements.

Feasel joined the Rockies prior to the 1996 season after serving as a division director of sales and marketing for Coca-Cola Enterprises, where he was responsible for all revenue areas and key accounts while overseeing the day-to-day operations of a distribution and sales center. Feasel is also a former educator in Texas and Colorado.

A graduate of Abilene Christian University, Feasel was inducted into the school’s Sports Hall of Fame in 2005. Along with his brother, Grant, he was also selected for the ACU All-Century Team in 2005. Feasel was a professional football player from 1983-87, and his career included time with the Green Bay Packers, San Diego Chargers and the Denver Gold in the United States Football League.

In addition to his responsibilities with the Rockies, Feasel is also active in the community. He currently serves as a board member of the Downtown Denver Partnership/Denver Civic Ventures Board, VISIT DENVER and is executive director of the Colorado Rockies Baseball Club Foundation.

Greg and his wife Lynn have one daughter, Zola.

Greg’s Links:
Colorado Rockies: https://www.mlb.com/rockies

Key Quotes:
1. “We learn from the good things that people do. And we learn from the not so good things that people do.”
2. “Nothing good ever happens after midnight.” Dick Vermeil
3. “You treat people how you want to be treated.”
4. “My job is not to have someone serve me but me to serve them.”
5. “At the beginning of everything, the worst thing is not to know.”
6. “You’ve got to continue to be prepared.”
7. “You’ve got to be interacting with people, and you’ve got to do it all the time.”
8. “Sit in the front row.”
9. “Don’t sell yourself short.”

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader Show. Today I have a special guest. He’s a friend. He’s been a former NFL football player. He’s an amazing dad and a really an amazing leader.

David Horsager: What we say on and off the platform. And he has a public space. He certainly in but he is

David Horsager: The Chief Operations Officer and he’s been that for last 26 years of the Colorado Rockies, one of the most beautiful places in America to watch a ball game on a beautiful night, looking at the Colorado mountains welcome Greg visa.

Greg Feasel: Well, thanks. Thanks for having me.

David Horsager: Greg it’s it’s a truly have you on what you’re just talking to these executives, we have listening. The, the, really, it’s it’s trusted leaders and that’s what we’re going for. But what should everybody know about Greg diesel give us three things.

Greg Feasel: Oh, three things.

Greg Feasel: You know, make it simple.

Greg Feasel: You know what you tell people, that’s what you do.

Greg Feasel: And know that your word and and you know character stands for something and you know don’t don’t lose sight of any of those

David Horsager: Love it when you think about, you know, going back to the football days and. Can you think back to some

David Horsager: You know great coaches not great coaches not naming anybody but like when you saw someone that was someone I trust it, and why that was someone who made a difference, any stories come to mind is way back when you were a player.

Greg Feasel: Um, yeah, I mean there’s there’s tons of stories. I mean, we learn from the good things that people do and we learn from you know the not so good things that people do and and none of us are perfect. And, you know, we’re not we’re not made perfect, but no, there’s

Greg Feasel: I think for me it’s, you know, I take a little bit from this person I take a little bit from

Greg Feasel: That person and I mean I’ll tell you a story about dick for male when I was with the eagles.

Greg Feasel: My guess is he would never remember this, but I was a nobody. I was, uh, I had tried out they invited me to camp.

Greg Feasel: It was the year after they went to the Super Bowl. But, I mean, I was really i was about as far from somebody as you could get and

Greg Feasel: You know, and that’s back in the days when they would have you know hundred people show up to training camps and I was walking over from the, from the dorm to practice and

Greg Feasel: He walked with me and and talked with me, and you know, you might say, well, that, you know, what does that say about you know being a leader or being a trusted leader but

Greg Feasel: The fact that he would take the time out and he would walk with me versus, you know, Bill bercy or Ron Jaworski or Wilbur Montgomery. And one of the things he said to me was, you know. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, and it’s just a little thing.

Greg Feasel: But the seeds. We plant in people. You have no idea. You know how they impact lives and to this day, I mean that sticks in my mind. And it was just a you know a little walk and

Greg Feasel: Yeah, so the little things like that pop up in my head all the time and help keep me going.

David Horsager: Let me jump back and forth here a little bit, but jump into basically Chief Operations Officer running operations there at the

David Horsager: Rockies, and really run a whole lot, and I’ve seen you do it and senior in the role, but

David Horsager: You know, a couple of times we’ve we I think specifically of a time we walk the stadium and we walked I it seemed like every square foot all the way around down to where you hold people if they’re

David Horsager: Getting a fight and have to go to jail, whatever, but but you you know you walked with me and that brings that back to me from on the field from players, but I just the winnings. I liked about you and just noticed is no matter who it was.

David Horsager: Your owner or your top player or the person is probably I would say, especially the person

David Horsager: You know, washing down the the the pretzel stand you notice them and you talk to him. And you said hi to him. And it seems like you know everybody you maybe got something from

David Horsager: From dick and walking around the stadium and knowing everybody and saying hi to everybody. I mean, how has some of that really affected how you are as a leader there.

Greg Feasel: Yeah, I mean yeah it all plays it all plays into that and i mean you you know you treat people how you want to be treated. I mean, the golden rule and you know people want to. They want to be recognized.

Greg Feasel: And at the end of the day you know I’m in the service business and, you know, my job is not to have someone serve me but me to serve them and, you know, back to the meal. The example is

Greg Feasel: It really kind of blew me away that that he would take the time to to me was just me and him. So I mean, and there’s other people walk. He’s walking with me.

Greg Feasel: So it made a huge impact on my life and I’m sure he has no idea

David Horsager: One thing you and I have talked about a little bit is health and you know you got your body was probably beat up a little bit. They’re playing playing in the NFL and and i know

David Horsager: We also talked about how we eat. We talked about how we exercise. I’ve been in the workout workout center there at the Rockies, or at least it’s spring training with you.

David Horsager: But I just think one of the big things we talked about as leaders is is really, you know, if you’re, you got to lead yourself.

Greg Feasel: You got to have your own trumpets.

David Horsager: And I just think of for you even personally what habits. Do you have these days that just help you live out what you believe it can be physically funny, you know, faith, whatever. But you’re you’re living a certain way there. But what habits do you put in place here. Lean yourself well

Greg Feasel: Sure. I mean, there’s a there’s a ton of them my

Greg Feasel: I don’t know that my wife would call them all good habits, simple things like you know I’m an early riser and I you know I think it’s

Greg Feasel: I think it’s important to, you know, not let grass grow under your feet and I don’t expect everyone to get up at, you know, five o’clock, like I do, but I’ve been

Greg Feasel: I’ve been doing it. And I think, you know, people they miss a lot in life they miss a lot with their families. They missed stuff with work because

Greg Feasel: You know they’re they’re frantic they’re pushing the snooze alarm, you know, three or four times.

Greg Feasel: So I mean that that’s an important thing to me. One of the things I learned in in college. I wasn’t

Greg Feasel: The best

Greg Feasel: Student I was the first one in my family either side to go to college and so that first semester you know I’m away from home. I never really been anywhere away from home and

Greg Feasel: I didn’t really know how to study. You know, I went to a small school and just didn’t have the background. So I didn’t do well my first semester and I had one of the talk to me and say,

Greg Feasel: You know, you’re gonna you know flunk out and I didn’t want to be the first one in my family to go to college and then flunk out of college.

Greg Feasel: He said, just, you know, again, back to being simple, he said, Just sit on the front row. I’m not gonna tell you anything else go to class but sit on the front row and

Greg Feasel: You know it is that a habit.

Greg Feasel: But it’s important to me to be at the front of the room versus the back of the room. I mean, in Proverbs quick to listen slow to speak. I can’t tell you how many times you know that’s saved me.

Greg Feasel: In in number of situations athletics Rockies my days with Coca Cola. Yeah, so there’s

Greg Feasel: Yeah, you know, the things you put in your body, the things you put in your mind. I start the day I get up early. I start the day and I just finished.

Greg Feasel: The bible in a year.

Greg Feasel: And I think it’s important that when you get up in the morning what you start putting in your mind. The same way that you know what you put in your mouth it and you know you and I have talked about

Greg Feasel: You know, I eat within the first 30 minutes of getting up because, you know, you’ve got to put fuel in your body. So I know I kind of bounced around but

Greg Feasel: You know, I think its fundamentals. I was an offensive lineman and you know offensive linemen are all about you know fundamentals. Where do your feet go. Where are your hands. Do you know what the snap count is

Greg Feasel: You know, do you show up to practice on time. That stuff goes a long ways to

Greg Feasel: You know making you successful and a happy person.

Greg Feasel: That’s

David Horsager: You know, we talked about a lot here about the what you input equals output right

David Horsager: Right. Little things then because they make the big difference, but it’s whatever you put in, which put in your body, which put in your marriage, which put in your leadership what you put in your, you know, in everything matters and

David Horsager: Into relationships into everything. So I think absolutely. It’s the truth, it’s the truth from

David Horsager: Everything to business to psychology thoughts that go in lead to desires which lead to actions. That’s the basic psychology to first law of thermodynamics, the energy put is the same as

David Horsager: Yours, you get out. I mean, it’s the same. So that’s, that’s absolutely true. You know, we out. We also talked a lot about you know how you’re doing leadership alone, you’re doing it wrong. How do you, how do you surround yourself. I know you’ve you’ve had a team you believe in team.

David Horsager: But we’re. Who are you, you’re kind of up at the top, you’re, you’re probably and I’m making assumptions here but you know owners expect certain things and you’ve got you’ve got a lot of the operation side. But still there’s players that expect certain things.

David Horsager: Sure how the field is you got all these people that are expecting things. How are you, you know, kind of finding a team to not just lead but to really keep you accountable and and also encouraged.

Greg Feasel: To me a truly make comes down, you’re not trying to be simple, but I’m just a dumb offensive alignment. It comes down to a couple things is

Greg Feasel: At the beginning of everything. The worst thing is not to know. So for me the worst thing is not to know for the people I work with the worst thing for them is not to know. So spend a lot of time, you know, face to face.

Greg Feasel: I have weekly meetings with my staff and it’d be no different with, you know, customers or people that were engaged with

Greg Feasel: You, you’ve got to be in front of them. And then, you know, normally when you have problems is when you don’t have that that constant contact or that relationship. And you know, that’s why. You know, I think it’s extremely important, so

Greg Feasel: And we’ve got good. We’ve got good people here. They’ve been here long time they the institutional knowledge we have around here. We’re more like a family.

Greg Feasel: I mean I have seven direct reports and five of her longer than me and I’m going into my 26th season. So we’re truly a family. We don’t always agree, but, you know, we usually end up going in the same direction.

David Horsager: You’ve been leading through a crazy pandemic last year, you know, what do you learn

Greg Feasel: Patience.

Greg Feasel: And you know, you got to continue to be prepared. You know, we’re right now we’re, you know, talking about the season and scheduled to start April 1 and which is, you know, right around the corner and spring training, you know, the middle of February and

Greg Feasel: You know, you just kind of have to balance those two things and you know with this pandemic for all of us. It’s, you know, whether it’s having people here having them work at home remotely, you know, how do you keep that all together, but also keep the business running

Greg Feasel: It’s, it’s

Greg Feasel: It’s been a challenge I think everyone has done a great job here. We didn’t lay off any full time people which

Greg Feasel: You know came down from our owner and

Greg Feasel: You know, just very proud of everything that the the staff has done and I think, you know, we’re all going to come out of this.

Greg Feasel: We’re gonna, we’re going to see things different which that’s what this pandemic is you know it’s it’s caused us all to look about, you know, how do we have, we’ve been operating how we can operate in the future.

Greg Feasel: So, you know, that’s been a positive and then, you know, coming out of this were, you know, I really think it’s, you know, I’m you know what is 2021 look like it’s probably a transition year and we get back to more

Greg Feasel: You know where we were in 19. Mm hmm.

David Horsager: I did a I did a talk this morning and

David Horsager: You know 15 things I learned from 2022 I’ll use forever.

David Horsager: And one of those one of those ideas was that idea of what happens when you when you’re forced to take a break or for staff change, you know, forced to kind of forcing yourself to have sabbatical.

David Horsager: What do you think, and it seems like in some ways things won’t be the same. What, what won’t change what will be better different when you get to

David Horsager: Like because of this pandemic, you see anything that when you think about it, you know, down the road. They are there things that you’re changing long, long term because of going through kind of such a transformational time

Greg Feasel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’d be a long list to go down. You know what’s going to change forever. I think, you know, for the person looking outside at organization. I don’t know that they’re going to see sweeping change.

Greg Feasel: From the outside, but definitely from the inside. I think you know we’ve all learned to that we’re not perfect. And we’ve learned to work smarter and you know I when you when you brought up the pandemic, you know, personally.

Greg Feasel: You know, I live south of town. And, you know, right next open space and I had, I had a mountain bike that I haven’t written in five years, and

Greg Feasel: You know, I was doing you know 30 4050 miles a week because I was able to do that and and I haven’t time with my family in the summer, ever. I mean, my wife and my daughter don’t know any different. And I know your schedule travel

Greg Feasel: You know you’ve spent more nights at home than you have, and years.

Greg Feasel: To decades. Yeah.

Greg Feasel: Yeah, so I think all those things apply. Yeah.

David Horsager: What do you, what are you doing now to get better.

David Horsager: What are you doing to keep learning growing, what do you, what do you

Greg Feasel: Do in these days, you know, I’m, you know,

Greg Feasel: You know, one of the questions that Kevin sent me was, you know, you know what book have you read lately, and I’ve really, you know, been trying to spend, you know, more time in the Bible and

Greg Feasel: And

Greg Feasel: Just, you know, continue to pull things out our churches here for the most part have been

Greg Feasel: Other than those first couple months have been having people come back so

Greg Feasel: You know, spending time at church and sorry sharper edge you know just sharpening the sword there. And then, you know, as it relates to, you know, the business side, you know, spending time

Greg Feasel: Zooming like we’re doing right now with my counterparts. And you know what have they learned, you know, the same thing. You’re asking me, you know what, uh, what have you learned

Greg Feasel: And trying to apply those come

David Horsager: How much of an island. Are you on like do you talk to

David Horsager: You know the all the presidents or

David Horsager: Chief Operating officers of the

David Horsager: Just all the other clubs you it’s a

David Horsager: Pretty close knit group you check in. How you doing with this.

Greg Feasel: Sure, yeah. Yeah, there’s there’s like little offshoots like you know if you’re if you’re a mid market club, there’s like a little cluster that you know we share information we bounce things off of each other. And then, yeah, there’s, you know, the bigger groups.

Greg Feasel: But I’d say we, we, I spend more. I personally spend more time whether you know clubs that are like us and how are they doing things like markets. Yeah, it’s, there’s only 30 of us, so it’s

David Horsager: You know, it’s not that Minnesota Twins are kind of in your market. Right.

David Horsager: Yep, same market so

Greg Feasel: Yeah.

David Horsager: Good old twins. I just spoke to the leadership and staff there recently as all zoom, obviously. Instead, but

David Horsager: Fun Fun Time fact

Greg Feasel: Yeah, and they, they do a great job. Dave St. Peter’s does a great job. Yeah.

David Horsager: It’s great stuff. What about you know you had this transition pro football. And then, you know, this time in corporate and

David Horsager: Coca Cola it seem like you’re moved up leadership pretty fast there and he tells her, you call yourself a dumb lineman but you’re kind of at the top of what anyone would want to be at in sports running a operations of a great organization like the Rockies.

David Horsager: We know but we know I know better. And I know, I know you’re real true humility to. But go back to that corporate world Coca Cola. What was some learning that

David Horsager: As a leader there you are growing your over sales for a time. What was there a tipping point in time there that stands out as a leader as far as the opportunity to grow, what happened.

Greg Feasel: Oh yeah, there was there was telling you know back to, you know, you take this from this person and that from that person and

Greg Feasel: You know, I don’t know why, you know, I’m very operational minded and I didn’t know that, you know, growing up. But when I got into Coke, it just

Greg Feasel: It just, it kind of all fit, you know, I, for whatever reason, you know, I picked up on distribution and production and and the numbers and you know how things look and you know coke is it’s a very operational already in business, but it’s also

Greg Feasel: I wouldn’t call it

Greg Feasel: Was gonna say with the word entertainment, but it’s not that

Greg Feasel: You know everything needs to look good. So, the product is face, the product is clean the it’s not expired.

Greg Feasel: You know, you know where your display is in position to your competitor.

Greg Feasel: You know, all that stuff has really helped me and understanding the beverage business has helped me. Do what you know I do here. Yeah. Yeah. And you know I had, I had a lot more people who work for me there and

Greg Feasel: Covered a you know a lot more ground. So it was

Greg Feasel: It was it was a great experience. I mean, it was you know my degree is not in business. But my business degree was a Coca Cola, and it was a great training ground.

David Horsager: It’s great. Well, for a guy that flunked out of college.

David Horsager: Had to get two degrees in some way.

Greg Feasel: Right. Yeah, it was close.

David Horsager: Competency competency bill, it’s not bad. What um

David Horsager: Any when you think about it, like with your team, whether it’s now Coca Cola what rhythms do use like are their rhythms. You sit like you always

David Horsager: Have a weekly meeting every daily, meaning you you try to do this or their rhythms that you kind of have with your team stay connected delete or to build trust.

Greg Feasel: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you’ve got to be. You’ve got to be interacting with people and you’ve got to do it, you know, all the time, and which is the one thing that’s you know it’s been a little tough on

Greg Feasel: You know having people not always here so you know you got so many people working remotely.

Greg Feasel: And I think it’s whether it be families. Now, families are jammed in the houses right now, but that sense of community and camaraderie, you know, whether it’s in a clubhouse or locker room or in an office setting.

Greg Feasel: You know, we’re with each other here, you know, we are with our families, and then, you know, to your point earlier on high expectations.

Greg Feasel: You know, we have

Greg Feasel: Bank covenants, you know we we make commitments to Major League Baseball. We make commitments to our sponsors. We make promises to our fans and you know meeting all those expectations.

Greg Feasel: You’ve gotta, you gotta you know do it together. I love it.

David Horsager: Hey, my producer in here loves baseball. I don’t know if he’s gonna ask about baseball or not, but I always give an opportunity to ask a question to each guest and he’s getting his MBA sitting right here.

David Horsager: Listen, all the amazing people. We get the opportunity and everybody can what’s, what do you have, what do you have for a cat. A question for Greg visa.

David Horsager: So obviously the past year plus because of the pandemic and all the different things going on, has been definitely a challenge, to say the least.

David Horsager: For a lot of people, how, how have you been able to balance, like all these different expectations, all these different things. I mean, you have obviously

David Horsager: You’re running a business that’s obviously important, but like, how do you deal with all these different changes. I mean, especially with baseball. I mean, it’s like seasons. Not happening.

David Horsager: Then the spirits happening all those certain things. How do you deal with those different high kind of high stress times when you’re having to deal with all of these different scenarios and stuff. How have you been able to deal with that in a good way.


Greg Feasel: Yeah. Somebody I don’t know where I know I heard it, or I read it that you know showed a picture of a bridge, and it was like five ton weight limit.

Greg Feasel: And, you know, there’s, you know, hundreds of tons that go over the bridge each day. But, you know, at one time, it can only handle five tons and, you know, we really, you know, especially this year. You take one thing at a time and

Greg Feasel: Yeah. And there you do have some people who, you know, they want to go. Okay, well what happens if six months down the road. Well, we’re not able to deal with that right now. So you deal with what’s in front of you and and

Greg Feasel: You know the toughest thing for a lot of people is to act and the second toughest thing is they don’t want to do the thing they fear the most. And

Greg Feasel: So many times, the thing to fear the most of those decisions that are right in front of us that have to be made, and then you make that decision. Then you move on to the next one and

Greg Feasel: That you know that fundamental process is is really the key to being able to sleep at night because you start, you know,

Greg Feasel: Putting just, I call it stacking. And we’ve all seen people that just okay they they stack the issues and they just keep stack and well you know the bridge is crushing if you’re stacking that bridge is toast. So

David Horsager: Love it.

David Horsager: Well, there’s a there’s a ton. Here we gotta

David Horsager: Give a quick little lightning round here. I mean, listen, already make it simple character.

David Horsager: Sit on the front row input equals output. It’s always about the fundamentals, especially alignment and leaders worst thing is not to know

David Horsager: Early riser. And one thing at a time don’t stack the issue. Funny thing, you know, General McChrystal and I enough that I’m close to anything, but we were both being interviewed on this panel.

David Horsager: Kind of early in the pandemic. So I got to hear what he said, which was much more brilliant lamb sure than anything I said, but we’re just, we’re there. And one thing he did say is

David Horsager: In crisis, you’ve got to boil it down, not just one key issue but you got to shorten the time frame which kind of goes to your one thing at a time.

David Horsager: He said, you know. Gone are the days, especially you think of the pandemic in April, May nobody knew it was going to happen right, he said, he said.

David Horsager: Get rid of that one year, you can still have a long term vision but get rid of that that one term goal of one term one year priority or one month. He said, You got to pull that what’s the, what’s the key thing for the team this week.

David Horsager: Absolutely.

David Horsager: What’s the good thing today.

David Horsager: And, you know, so, but in fact he talked about when he had that just really tough issue, I believe it was finding

David Horsager: Bin Laden and they just couldn’t get the Intel right and they could every day. They’re in the wrong spot and and they’re all over

David Horsager: You know, basically, Europe and a part of Asia, and part of North Africa and he’s responsible for all the troops and finally said we’re having a call. Every day. Every morning 2200 people were on that call.

David Horsager: Every morning, he said, what is there any new Intel today. Any new into this is our role. This is our job. What’s the until today. Anybody everybody’s on the call.

David Horsager: And after that call at the end of it. He would give us 15 minutes. So this is our point of attack right now this is where we’re going. This is what we’re doing, everybody right now this tell everybody. This any boil it down to this one.

David Horsager: Kind of thing every day and and one goal every day, kind of, you know, in the midst of crisis. So it’s kind of like, I think.

David Horsager: I think there was a lot of overwhelm over the last nine months, like, Oh, I’ve got all these things. And that kind of jumps at me another military idea friend of mine that was talking to in the middle of the

David Horsager: Kind of pandemic. I said, What’s working for you. And he said, well,

David Horsager: When I went through the the War College in the 19 1980s. I learned uka volatility, uncertainty complexity and ambiguity and when I have times of uncertainty.

David Horsager: We were taught to ask two questions ask what can I control and what should I do first.

David Horsager: Which basically is what you’re talking about here. Just what don’t stack it. What can I control turns up last seven, nine months, people that asked what they could control instead of whining about everything. They couldn’t control they found a lot of things they could control.

Greg Feasel: Yeah.

David Horsager: So then it’s boiling it down to the first thing so

David Horsager: Keep sharpening yourself Bible and there’s a lot of great stuff here. Any I got a final question for you in a moment, but any last resource or

David Horsager: Quote, or guiding principle that you just say, Boy, if I want to be a leader. This is something I live by, or think about anything else you would want to share in our short short time together today.

Greg Feasel: I don’t know if it’s earth shattering but I mean anything’s possible. I mean,

Greg Feasel: We live in a great country and

Greg Feasel: You know, I didn’t play it down a high school football and I ended up playing in the NFL. I don’t have a business degree.

Greg Feasel: And I’ve been 26 years with the Colorado Rockies.

Greg Feasel: And I’m considered a football guy. So, you know, don’t, don’t sell yourself short. I mean, really,

Greg Feasel: Are you are you looking at the horizon and

Greg Feasel: I think people they they let themselves get bogged down and or they’re looking at, you know, what’s happening in their neighbor’s yard versus focusing on what they can accomplish and

Greg Feasel: You know, I tell people all the time. Only in America could a guy like me be doing what I’m doing. Only in America.

David Horsager: That that is crazy. So I didn’t

David Horsager: We’re wrapping up but this is what we should have led WITH YOU DIDN’T PLAY A down

Greg Feasel: Of high school football. No, yeah, it was David. It was so bad that

Greg Feasel: Me and another kid my senior year had the same number. So we used to stand on opposite ends of the sideline, and I never went on any away trip.

Greg Feasel: And I mean you love least should I played a lot. No, but should you least put the kid in. Yeah, it should put the kid in but you know what I learned. You know, back to, you know, learning from things that don’t go right is

Greg Feasel: I mean, you can’t miss those things. You can’t miss those opportunities. You got a kid that’s been going to practice never missed a practice.

Greg Feasel: You know, put them in and

Greg Feasel: Call it respect call it the right thing, you know, put them in the game. You know what’s, what’s the big deal.

Greg Feasel: But you know it was a little tougher on my parents, but you know it was a it was a humbling experience. And then, you know, you know, the rest is, you know, kind of history. I went to junior college and then went to Abilene Christian, as you know, and

Greg Feasel: Your brother ended up with Pro.

David Horsager: Football so

Greg Feasel: Yep played Minnesota for a while. Yeah.

David Horsager: Yeah, right here and packers, too. So we got to see him one way or the other. Right.

Greg Feasel: Yeah.

David Horsager: Or was that just you at the Packers.

Greg Feasel: I was at the Packers. Yeah, yeah. He was at Seattle of Baltimore Minnesota and Seattle. Yeah.

David Horsager: Well, there’s a lot more wisdom in Greg feasible said we and I’m just really grateful to call you friend.

David Horsager: I am but I’m grateful to know you and to and to be better because of you. So thanks for being friends. Last question of the time together.

David Horsager: You know we call the show the trusted leader, the new book is coming out trusted leader. I’m certainly not perfect at it by any stretch, I note. I just know it’s the right way to be from the research.

David Horsager: Sure, and

David Horsager: But if if you had one you said here’s, you know, if you’re thinking of a trusted leader. Tell us about one that you think of. I know you’ve been around many, but who someone you trust the leader and why

Greg Feasel: Boy, that’s it. You know, it goes I it’s tough to single out any one person because I’m more of a guy that you know take something from this person take something from that person and

Greg Feasel: You know my dad was a great influence in my life and

Greg Feasel: Just his work ethic is character.

Greg Feasel: That a word means something which that all I mean trust is just wrapped in that and you know you tell somebody you’re going to do something and and you do it, and he lived, he lived his life that way and

Greg Feasel: And you know, I could

Greg Feasel: See the examples, you know, over and over again. When I grew up, of that’s what he did. I mean, he said he was going to show up and do this. He was going to show up and do it. And if something wasn’t right. He was going to say that it wasn’t right. So,

David Horsager: That’s great.

David Horsager: no better place to find someone to follow that in your dad and I know you’re a great one to hope linen Zoe and everybody are are doing well out there and

David Horsager: That is a treat to get to hear from Greg visa, Greg, thanks for being on

Greg Feasel: And thanks for thank you for

David Horsager: The, the friendship and that’s the trusted leader show we’ll look forward to seeing you next time, stay trusted

Ep. 6: Sam Horn on How to Get People’s Attention – And Their Business

In this episode, David sits down with Sam Horn, CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute, to discuss how to get people’s attention and in turn, their business.

Sam’s Bio:
Sam Horn is the CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute. Her 3 TEDx talks and 9 books – including Tongue Fu!, POP! and Washington Post bestseller Got Your Attention? – have been featured in New York Times, on NPR, and taught to hundreds of organizations worldwide including Intel, Cisco, Boeing, Capital One, Nationwide, YPO and Accenture. Sam was the Executive Director of the Maui Writers Conference for 17 years and the Pitch Coach for Springboard Enterprises, which has helped entrepreneurs generate $10 billion in funding. She is known for her ability to help people create one-of-a-kind brands, books, businesses, and high-stakes presentations that have scaled their impact – for good.

Sam’s Links:
Website: https://www.intrigueagency.com/
“POP” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3tVvM4m
“Tongue Fu” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3b3HGk8
“Got You Attention?” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2Ow96aD
“Someday is Not a Day in the Week” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2LU0Gcl
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samhorn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samhornintrigue/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/samhornintrigue
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samhornintrigue/

Key Quotes:
1. “Ink it when you think it.”
2. “We make our living from our mind.”
3. “The word “but” destroys trust.”
4. “And” advances conversation, “but” anchors it in an argument.”
5. “Time is the new trust.”
6. “The first way that we build trust online is that we start on time.”
7. “Anxiety can be defined in two words: not knowing.”
8. “Terse is worse.”
9. “If we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business.”
10. “We don’t want to be out of sight out of mind, we want to be top of mind.”
11. “When you’re first of your kind, you own the market.”
12. “If you want to corner the niche, create a niche.”
13. “When you’re one-of-a-kind you have no competition.”
14. “Rhyme is sublime because its remembered over time.”
15. “Don’t reread what you’ve written.”
16. “Progress produces pace. Pace produces mental momentum. Mental momentum produces flow.”
17. “Perfectionism is a form of procrastination.”
18. “We can put ourselves in the shoes of one person. We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea.”
19. “Someday is not a day in the week.”
20. “I have found if you love life, life will love you back.” – Authur Rubenstein
21. “To do what you love and feel that it matters – how could anything be more fun?” – Katherine Graham

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
The Social Dilemma documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m David horse soccer and I have a special guest someone I from afar have looked up to for a long time. Please welcome the brilliant Sam horn. How are you, Sam.

Sam Horn: David. I’m so glad to be here. Boy, are we going to have fun and I hope people. People have pen and paper because we’re going to ink it when we think it we’re going to jump right in and the thoughts are going to be flowing so fast, their fingers won’t be able to keep up sound good.

David Horsager: That sounds great. And, you know, some of you may or may not know she’s written nine books. She’s a best selling author, but I think this is interesting. She’s coaster consultant

David Horsager: Executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show the CEO of Travelocity she is a, you know, coaches and consulted with the Phantom of the Opera opera.

David Horsager: On Broadway Iron Man triathletes founders co founders, Director of the Disney Institute, you know, she has one of the fast paced innovative minds. I’ve seen I watched her 20 years ago.

David Horsager: Take a CEO onstage and just draw out ideas and be innovative. So Sam we’re, we are just thrilled that you’re here, you know, let’s start out with before we even get into it too much three things we should know about Sam horn.

Sam Horn: Hahaha I use. I play tennis at the White House. And I was playing with the DA, the head of defensive and and he said, grab the tennis balls. I’m thinking nuclear attack. No, it was the Fords Golden Retriever, who are coming to grab our tennis ball so I bet people don’t know that about me.

David Horsager: That’s a good one. That is a good one. And right now, you know, I think as we jump into some of what you think about a lot work that we talked a lot about leadership. Maybe before we get into even some of your books and brilliant ideas.

David Horsager: You what habits. We talked about personal leadership also leads to effective leadership publicly and what habits have you created or routines that have helped you be a better public leader in a way

Sam Horn: You know, David, you’re all about trust, and I believe as leaders we make our living from our mind and I really mean it about Inca when we think it and we have time for like a 62nd story about this.

David Horsager: Anytime anything from you.

Sam Horn: Okay, well, you know, do it. Jones, right. Another Hall of Fame speaker Dwight Jones former National Geographic photographer.

Sam Horn: So I’d asked to do it to the Maui writers conference and we’re walking the beach. The morning before

Sam Horn: And he was doing something that really puzzled me, we would be walking and he’d whip out a notebook and write something down and we’d walk another hundred yards to whip out that notebook write something down

Sam Horn: I said do it. What are you doing, and he said, Sam. I used to get these ideas. And I think all that should go in my keynote. Oh, I’ll put that in my column next week and then I forget about it.

Sam Horn: And I realized I was throwing away gold, and he said, I take a notebook with me wherever I go.

Sam Horn: And and when it occurs to me I jot it down in the moment, because I may not know when or where I’ll use it. I just know it’s going to be there waiting for me.

Sam Horn: And I believe that habit makes our life, our lab, you know, Annie Lamott said writers get to live life twice.

Sam Horn: And I think we get to live it thrice we live life more intensely and we’re more observant than when we see something that gets our eyebrows up we write it down. We share it, and then we hear back from people how they’ve used it. So isn’t that a better way to live.

David Horsager: Well that’s, that’s awesome. And every one of your books is just beautifully written and takeaways and inspiration. But before I go backwards and ask you about some things that have inspired me. What are you writing now.

Sam Horn: I’m working on tongue food too. And you’ve heard of techniques. Right.

Sam Horn: Well, these are talking weeks, you know, in a virtual world with cameras off and videos disengaged and people disengaged, how can we communicate and connect, even if we can’t see each other, even if the person’s on the other side of the world.

David Horsager: Let’s jump into that because I even wanted to go back to tongue foo, because, you know, when we think about trust.

David Horsager: Our greatest opportunity to build trust actually is not in first interaction. Our greatest opportunity to build it the fastest is in crisis.

David Horsager: In conflict and you gave some great takeaways and ideas of how you know think it by what you say and how you say it. You can build trust in conflict or crisis. Give us some ideas. If you’re willing

Sam Horn: All right. Now, by the way, people ask how does my mind work I juxtapose everything

Sam Horn: I think it is the quickest way to make a complex idea crystal clear. So right now, if people are watching this unless they’re driving and listening to it, get a piece of paper and put a vertical line right down the center

Sam Horn: We’re going to have words to lose on the left, we’re going to have words to use on the right. And since you’re about trusted leadership. These words on the left block trust. They sabotage trust.

Sam Horn: The words on the right, build trust they support trust.

Sam Horn: So I’m going to run right through my right over on the left, I’ll tell you, and then listen to the cumulative impact and then we’ll replace him with more proactive words on the right. So put down the word but right on the left.

Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying, but we tried that before and it didn’t work out. You did a good job on that. But you know, it’s like you forgot to the word but destroys trust. It makes it adversarial

Sam Horn: Next, put down the word should someone makes a mistake we said you should have been more careful. You should have brought that up in a staff meeting people resent us even if what we’re saying is right.

Sam Horn: Over on the left, put the word you need to mean we’re bosses right we tell people what to do. Here’s the thing. Do we know anyone who likes to be ordered around, you need to, you have to, you need to get it done today.

Sam Horn: Next one is can’t because I’m sorry. You know, I can’t help you with that because no you can’t do that because it hasn’t been approved yet.

Sam Horn: And I’ve got lots of them one more and then we’ll stop. There’s nothing. Hey, there’s nothing I can do. It’s not my fault. I didn’t make up the rules coven don’t blame me right all of those words will undermine our respect and our trust as a leader so want to know what to replace him with

David Horsager: I’d love to.

David Horsager: And everyone would

Sam Horn: Let’s deals in a little suspense right David

David Horsager: That’s right. I’m writing right now because you’re also making me think of other things, you know, other ideas or


David Horsager: Great. If

Sam Horn: We had more time than we would turn it over to your leaders and we would ask them, think about what do people say that makes him feel shut down. What do people say that causes resentment.

Sam Horn: What do people say that actually creates a conflict and we come up with these whole list on the left and then we show the shift and we replace him with these words on the right, so here’s but put and next to it.

Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying. And we tried that before and it didn’t work out. And do you have any ideas on how we can do that better.

Sam Horn: And advances conversations but anchors it in an argument. How about that word should

Sam Horn: When something goes wrong. We tell people what they should have done. Ah, over on the right, next time from now on in the future.

Sam Horn: Because now we’re being a coach, instead of a critic, we are shaping behavior, instead of shaming it and people are learning from their mistakes instead of losing face ready. Next one, or shall I stop at any time you can tell me to put a sock in a David

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: I love it. This is the, this is what we’re going for. I love this.

Sam Horn: All right.

David Horsager: Next one, everybody. I can speak for everybody. By the way, and I hear I interrupt, but I can tell everybody. Love you got

David Horsager: more energy than you know 95% of people and I just love it. But more than that, takeaways. We can use tomorrow morning. So thank you.

Sam Horn: That’s, that’s what we both value. Right. It’s like we’re leaders come on the clock starts ticking the second we start talking. Let’s get real life value we can apply immediately right

David Horsager: Absolutely and that’s what I saw 20 years ago and I know of still today. So thank you for that. Let’s go. You need to

Sam Horn: You need you.

Sam Horn: If you would, could you please instead of you need to get that done today, you know, could you please make sure that gets done today. It’s really important. So see, we give the rationale

Sam Horn: It’s just that people are a lot more likely to come to operate willingly instead of comply reluctantly. When we asked them, and treat them with respect, instead of ordering them around with those commands, right. Ready for the next one.

David Horsager: Ready can’t. Yeah, I can’t because

Sam Horn: Can as soon as I can, right after instead of no we can’t start this meeting because we’re still missing three of our board members.

Sam Horn: Yes, we can start the meeting as soon as those board members show up. And if they’re not here in five minutes. We’re going to get started. Anyway, thank you for your patience. Now, by the way, David, are you a father.

David Horsager: I have four kids.

Sam Horn: Or kids. Boom. Let’s talk about how we can use this at home. Right.

Sam Horn: It’s like a dad said this was going to change the way he parented he said Sam I had three kids under the age of 10

Sam Horn: It seems like all I ever do is tell them no. No, you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t done your homework, you can’t watch TV because you haven’t done your chores.

Sam Horn: And then we usually do what’s called stalking you know the rules around here that TV doesn’t go on until those chores are finished, how many times, you’ll have and we’re off and running. Right.

David Horsager: Absolutely. I hear it all. I can see it.

Sam Horn: Okay, now you do this change it instead of no you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t finished your chores. How would you turn that around.

David Horsager: You can’t. No, you can’t be on the, whatever it is. This video game and tell or as soon as you this

David Horsager: As soon as you have all your chores done or

Sam Horn: We can even turn it into a yes. Instead of no you can’t. Because yes, you can play with your friends.

Sam Horn: As soon as you finish your chores clean up your room. Take out the trash and then you can go out and shoot rooms.

Sam Horn: Yes, you can watch TV. As soon as you finish your homework, you know, do your math. Let me have a look at it. Then you can turn

Sam Horn: And AND YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS NOT semantics. It changes the whole dynamic of the relationship because when we say no, you can’t because they see us as blocking them from what it is they want when we say yes, you can. As soon as who’s responsible for getting what it is they want now.

David Horsager: We put the responsibility back on them.

David Horsager: Yes, I love it.

Sam Horn: That’s right.

David Horsager: As long as we’re into tongue foo. Let’s go to point O and say, what about a virtual environment. What about this world where and how do we build in our case, build trust and communicate well, even in this environment that we’re stuck in. And frankly, in many ways, that will be forever.

Sam Horn: You know, I just love this question, Richard Branson said time is the new money and you know what I say time is the new trust.

Sam Horn: And I think the first way that we build trust online is that we start on time is because did you know anxiety can be defined in two words, not knowing

Sam Horn: And if we log on and first if people say well I know we’re supposed to start, but we’re going to wait for late comers.

Sam Horn: What’s that about we’re honoring the late comers, not the p you know rewarded behavior gets repeated right. What are we teaching. So if we want people to trust us to always be a good use of their time. We always start on time, because time equals trust. Right.

David Horsager: No doubt, no doubt.

Sam Horn: The next thing is we book in our interactions with goodwill.

Sam Horn: And I’ll give you a quick example of this. I had an opportunity to do a webinar for very large organization and my contact the meeting planner spent a lot of time on this.

Sam Horn: And it went pretty well. And they had more people ever that signed up for this. They got wonderful comments in chat.

Sam Horn: And I was copied on the email of the CEO to the meeting planner, it had two lines in a David it said

Sam Horn: Why weren’t the PowerPoint slides on our template and why didn’t you think the sponsors.

Sam Horn: That was it. David didn’t say thing about the months of work into it didn’t say, Hey, congratulations on getting more people than we’ve had before. Hey, look at those comments.

Sam Horn: So here’s the prescription because we’re proactive, how can we do it better is to start every email with a reference to a previous interaction.

Sam Horn: Even if it’s a problem. It’s like, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am so glad you told us that you left three voice messages, who we haven’t gotten back yet.

Sam Horn: So it’s like, hey, how did that 10 K go you know if it’s like we reference something in the previous email because that sense of continuity and it personalizes it instead of having this terse is worse.

Sam Horn: And then we wrap up with like I’m it’s, it’s, I look forward. I look forward to seeing you next week. I look forward to getting you know feedback on this project.

Sam Horn: And if we start and we close. That’s called book ending and authors know this, that when we start warm and we end warm it gives people this full circle sense of completion.

Sam Horn: And they feel like they got what they came for. And we are making professional communication personal which warms up what otherwise is a cold medium.

David Horsager: Absolutely. Anything we, you know, with all this interaction. I just did a big global event today with hundreds of people on anything as communicators professional communicators, we should be thinking about to connect with the audience in that virtual environment. What can we do more of

Sam Horn: Names in places names in places, you know, people people feel remote right and they feel anonymous

Sam Horn: And that’s when they start feeling very distant and they feel a part from the group instead of feeling a part of the group.

Sam Horn: So when we asked for questions. It’s like, Hey Sue from St. Louis, you know, you got a question over here. And it’s a bob some for Santa Barbara, you know, it’s like

Sam Horn: Now people feel like they’re part of a community and they know oh my goodness there’s 30 countries on this call, you know, and we’ve got Jose from Mexico. And we’ve got so she’s for from

Sam Horn: And and by giving people names we give them an identity and even if we can’t name all 5000 people on the call. These are standing representatives, so people feel like we’re seeing them instead of just on automatic pilot giving a speech that we’ve given 100 times before.

David Horsager: I love it. Let’s we could go deeper on every one of these and I keep going and you tell us where you want to go to, because you’ve got so much, you’re thinking about right now but

David Horsager: Your book pop tell us just a glimpse about that because that was a fascinating one. And that was, you know, kind of, when I started know you. I think

Sam Horn: You know, thank you. In fact, I was so I was thrilled when Seth Godin got in touch and gave me the cover endorsement for the book. He said, a quarter of the way through this book you’ll be begging to hire Sam Hornish your consultant. I’m going. Thank you sell

David Horsager: Absolutely. So tell us about what what’s that stamp. What is pop. How do I get credit, you know, I can stand out in a crowd. I can create a competitive advantage.

David Horsager: What does that mean to pop

Sam Horn: Well, if we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business right

Sam Horn: And in a very crowded competitive society if we don’t have a secret sauce, if we aren’t doing something that isn’t on. How are we uncommon. How are we, unlike our competitors. So, of course, I’ve got dozens of techniques on how to do this. So shall we just give like P. O. P. Right now three

David Horsager: Do it. Yeah, let’s do that.

Sam Horn: Okay. So P is for purposeful and here’s my question to you is when people finish reading your website when they finish hearing your TEDx talk when they finish hearing your, your annual meeting, can they repeat anything they heard, word for word.

Sam Horn: Because if they can’t. That’s not purposeful. Now this idea comes from Garry Marshall, by the way, did you see the movie. Pretty Woman

Sam Horn: Yes. Okay. Gary was the director, producer, that he said something at Maui writers conference. It was so profound I remembered as if he said it this morning. He said, Hollywood directors can predict when their movies will make money based on one thing, guess what it was.

David Horsager: Purpose. Purpose.

Sam Horn: It. Yep, it is. That wasn’t a trick question, and

Sam Horn: It is. Can people repeat anything, word for word because if someone says seen any good movies recently and you say, make my day all be back. Show me the money.

Sam Horn: They have become brand ambassadors for you. They’re taking your work viral, so all of your leaders on your goal on your company’s website, you know,

Sam Horn: At the end of a presentation to your employees, say, What do you remember

Sam Horn: And if they can’t repeat anything, it means it’s out of sight, out of mind. We don’t want to be out of sight, out of mind. We want to be top of mind. And one way to do that is to make sure every communication has a stated purpose that is repeatable and repeatable.

David Horsager: That’s perfect. What about that. Oh.

Sam Horn: Okay, always for original and, you know, we’ve heard that there’s nothing new under the sun. Right.

Sam Horn: I disagree. I think that our success depends on coming up with something that’s new under the sun. Now I’ve got a lot of ways to do that. One is just to do the opposite of the always

Sam Horn: And here’s a wonderful example of that. Do you know that when enterprise entered the car rental agency market years ago.

Sam Horn: 80% market share hurts and Avis number one and number 280 percent market share.

Sam Horn: Now, why would you go into an industry that was owned by the big boys. Will you ask yourself two questions. What do they all do.

Sam Horn: Well, they’re all located at airports, so don’t locate in airports go in the neighborhoods. Right. And ask yourself. Another question, what do customers want

Sam Horn: That none of them are offering. What did customers want pick up and drop off service.

Sam Horn: So enterprise was first of its kind. And when you’re first of your kind you own the market, you have no competition. By the way, guess who owns the well. They don’t own, but they have the largest market share worldwide in that car rental agency in history.

Sam Horn: And history enterprise enterprise.

Sam Horn: Wow. And so see

Sam Horn: All of your leaders. I know that you you work with people around the globe in all kinds of different industries and if we think I can’t compete with them. You can, if your original and here are just two ways to do that. What are they all do.

Sam Horn: go head to head with them, right, I’m gonna go where they’re not. And then what do people want that they don’t offer and I’m going to be first to market with that.

David Horsager: I know something you say along those lines as you want to corner the niche create an edge.

David Horsager: Right. You want exactly right.

David Horsager: Or I this one too. When you’re one of a kind. You have no competition.

David Horsager: Well, live it and said, All right, let’s go to that final P on pop

Sam Horn: Okay, now I’ve switched this around, since I wrote the book pop edit and this one is for promote

Sam Horn: Because I really believe that that leaders kind of feel like they’re like doctors and lawyers used to be. It’s like we don’t self promote right i mean that’s like been below me. That’s beneath me and it’s out of integrity.

Sam Horn: And I really believe if you believe in what you care about. If you have a cause. If you believe in your company.

Sam Horn: If you are not promoting it through speaking at a TEDx or through a quality book, you know, people may not be aware of it. And that doesn’t serve any good purpose doesn’t. So do we have

Sam Horn: Time for very courteous. Okay, so I was hired by a health executive I had a big Six Sigma training company and he was going to be speaking at a medical conference.

Sam Horn: And it was good news, bad news. At first he speaking at this medical conference with thousands of decision makers in the healthcare industry.

Sam Horn: The bad news. Was he was going on the fourth day of a four day conference in the afternoon. He said, Sam. I don’t even think people kind of be around.

Sam Horn: So I talked him through my seven p process to come up with something that would help him pop out of the brochure and that would motivate these decision makers to come to his session.

Sam Horn: Now I’m not going to go through the whole process just suffice it to say that one of the ways we pop out is that we leverage what you do.

Sam Horn: As a hobby or special interest. It is a way to make what is familiar fresh and so I said, What do you do when you’re not working.

Sam Horn: It’s them. I’m never not working. I’m on the road. Five, six days a week. I said, well, when you’re home. Do you and your wife do anything. He says, Well, sometimes I play. I mean, I watch law and order at the TV show thing though I knew what it was.

Sam Horn: Now you know what six sigma

David Horsager: Is right David, of course.

Sam Horn: If you were going to explain it to our audience what is six sigma. So, people kind of understand it.

David Horsager: Well, I’ve never been through it, but I would say it’s it’s creating a taking out any extras and making a lean environment. So no, no extra

Sam Horn: Oh, you just did it is that they they figure out the errors. The, the inconsistency is the inefficiencies and they clean them out. So it’s lean and so they have a very highly efficient highly profitable system right

Sam Horn: So when he said he watches flaw and or when he watches law in order go I knew what we’re going to call this program. Guess what it was called

Sam Horn: Flaw in order


David Horsager: Well, how do you stay

David Horsager: How do you stay so creative and innovative. I mean, how do you keep that mind thinking, you know, it seems like

David Horsager: Some people could be listening to you and saying, well, she just connects these things she did they just come out of her head, and certainly there’s a gifting but there also is almost, it seems like a, a way of doing it that that makes you creative and fresh even right now.

Sam Horn: You know, first, thank you for that. And I think that’s why Seth, who is a very generous supporter of other business authors and entrepreneurs why he endorsed that book is that

Sam Horn: There are techniques in pop that can help you be creative, even if you’re not creative. One of them is called alpha appetising

Sam Horn: You actually go through your website, you go through a presentation you give you pull out 10 to 20 words. That’s your word bank.

Sam Horn: Then you run them through the alphabet. Think about it. Tongue foo is an alpha ties form of Kung Fu

Sam Horn: Someone said this is kind of like a verbal form of Kung Fu run it through the alphabet on food been food some food done Foo Young food.

Sam Horn: eventually get to tongue food right you don’t stop there though there’s unto others fun foo, how to handle hassles with the humor and there’s let’s see tongue sue for lawyers and then there’s young food for kids.

David Horsager: Are you go, wow.

Sam Horn: And if your leaders are thinking, Sam. That’s

Sam Horn: cutesy. Hey, I’m a sophisticated executive of a multi million dollar billion dollar company. We’re not always talking about cutesy. In fact, can I tell you

Sam Horn: About an example that saves lives with what we’re doing. It’s, it’s not cutesy. It’s not word play. It’s bottom line saving lives. Do we have time.

David Horsager: What is it, please.

David Horsager: No, please don’t, we don’t want to save any lives.

David Horsager: Absolutely. Keep on. That’s great. What, what is it,

Sam Horn: Well, we talked about how to come up with airtight sound bites. Right. So what we say is repeatable repeatable and the R stands for Ryan Ryan is sublime because it’s remembered over time.

Sam Horn: So the US government was very concerned about injuries and fatalities and accidents, so they mounted a multi million dollar

Sam Horn: Public Service campaign and it was called buckle up for safety. Oh, clunky right you know nothing changed nothing happened. They went back to the drawing board. This time they came up with a rhyme. Guess what it was.

David Horsager: I got to hear it.

Sam Horn: Click It or Ticket David compliance went up and injuries and fatalities went down.

Sam Horn: Do you see this as not silly wordplay. It is the difference between what we say goes on uninterested ears and no behavior change or whether people see it and they’re motivated to change their behavior and actually reduce fatalities and injuries.

David Horsager: Right. So let’s take, you know, you were, you were for years and years, the Executive Director of the Maui writers

David Horsager: Conference most, one of the most notable writers events in the world, but you’re a writer and a speaker and a leader and all these things. But let’s go to writing because

David Horsager: Do you have a discipline of writing every day. THE LAST GUEST. I had was big on journaling and just how just journaling helped him lead as a leader, but tell us about the discipline of it for you.

Sam Horn: If, if you said, Sam. You can only give one tip after helping many, many, many people with their books and so forth. You can only give one tip. Do you know what it would be.

David Horsager: I, I can’t wait to hear it.

Sam Horn: Don’t reread what you’ve written because if you reread what you’ve written your rewrite what you’ve written and at the end of the week. It won’t necessarily be better. It will just be different.

Sam Horn: Progress produces pace pace produces mental momentum mental momentum produces flow, flow is that stream of conscious state. Not that self conscious state.

Sam Horn: Because if we edit as we go. The critical voice kills the creative voice, we come to a screeching halt. Now we’re stuck right

Sam Horn: And the way to get out of that is produce produce produce produce produce produce predict, that’s when the voice comes out and plays because it knows it’s not going to get judged.

David Horsager: And yet, at some point, it seems like we’re going to be judged. We have to critique my wise older brother, the economist says you were in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think right

David Horsager: If you’re a leader.

David Horsager: Leader, you want to be critiqued for living give a speech, write a book or lead anything so

David Horsager: How do we do this.

Sam Horn: And then this is a two part answer because obviously when we finish five chapters. We reread them right when we finish a blog and we set it aside for day we come back with fresh eyes and at that point.

Sam Horn: You see the key though is first, get it written then get it right draft then craft. Most of us we craft as we’re drafting, you know, we’re editing as we go.

Sam Horn: We’re trying to get it right. As we get it written. And when we do that, it will probably never get out the door because perfectionism is a form of procrastination.

David Horsager: So let’s go long form, you’re an amazing storyteller. Tell us about the power of story and and how you leverage story as a leader.

Sam Horn: David, we could do this all day couldn’t

David Horsager: Be good. And I’m going to suck the life out of your brain with the few minutes that I have

Sam Horn: Okay, well this is credit to Shankar Vedanta Sean Connery Don time who does hidden brain on NPR wrote an article in the Washington Post years ago.

Sam Horn: About and this does get to storytelling. In fact, it’s probably one of the most eye opening insights about the power of storytelling to motivate people to care about what we care about. So, so hang in there because it does serve a purpose. Okay.

Sam Horn: Here is this oil tanker they’re caught fire 800 miles off the coast of Hawaii and a cruise ship happened to be going by and was able to rescue the 11 people

Sam Horn: The captain gave a press conference and he talked about how grateful he was to be rescued all he can think about is his dog that got left behind abandoned on the tanker

Sam Horn: And that press conference went viral and donations started pouring in from around the world $5 $500 $5,000

Sam Horn: The US Navy change the exercise area of the Pacific Fleet they searched 50,000 square miles of open ocean, they find the tanker

Sam Horn: They send the C 130 to fly low to see if there’s any signs of life. Here’s this brown and white blur racing up and down the deck of a tanker

Sam Horn: They mount a quarter of a million dollar rescue mission to get this dog and they are able to bring hot get back to Hawaii. Now, what’s the point

Sam Horn: Here’s the point. Why did people from around the world mobilize to save one dog when there are thousands of people in our own cities and states and countries going without food, water and shelter.

Sam Horn: It’s because of something called the empathy telescope and the empathy telescope says we can put ourselves in the shoes of one person.

Sam Horn: We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea. We can put ourselves in the shoes of an individual, we cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an organization.

Sam Horn: So every leader who is listening to this, David, what is your dog going to take her story.

Sam Horn: Because if we want people to care about what we care about. If we’re just trotting out big numbers. That’s when people look away because it seems overwhelming.

Sam Horn: And when we’re overwhelmed. We’re mobilized if we tell the story of one person.

Sam Horn: Who had a problem or challenge and work with us or bought our product or used our services and now they’re better off, we can identify without one person that’s when we relate to it. That’s when we remember it. And that’s when we want it.

David Horsager: That is powerful.

David Horsager: We can put ourselves only in the shoes of one person.

David Horsager: So there’s a whole lot more. We could cover, but let’s think you’ve written some on productivity and we often get right at some tips, people can take tomorrow that would help them be better, more effective, more efficient as leaders. What’s the tip of the day for us from Sam horn.

Sam Horn: It someday is not a day in the week.

Sam Horn: And that Paulo Coelho said that one day, we’re going to wake up and there won’t be any time left to do the things we’ve always wanted to do.

Sam Horn: And when I work with leaders. We often say, What’s your legacy message, you know, what’s your legacy project.

Sam Horn: How can we leverage your E your experience, your expertise and your Tiffany’s so everything you’ve learned along the way, doesn’t just stay up here.

Sam Horn: It’s out there making a difference for people and will be out there making a difference for people long after you’re gone. So what is that, and then start it put a date on the calendar instead of waiting for someday that may never come.

David Horsager: So what about you.

David Horsager: What’s your, what do you hope for you look out in the future. Let’s, let’s, Sam horns someday or out there or vision for what’s ahead, you’ve done so many remarkable things many things you’ve done through others by equipping and encouraging and impacting them.

David Horsager: What is it for you.

Sam Horn: You know, David. And once again, credit to this Jan Struthers came up with a quote. She said she was twice blessed, she was happy and she knew it.

Sam Horn: Is that lovely and I am so happy and I know it. And so I have a foot in both worlds. I live in Austin, Texas. Now, and

Sam Horn: My son and his family and my grandson live 12 minutes away. And so, one foot is in this world where everything is right in my world. I love where I am. I love my friends and my family and the time to spend with them.

Sam Horn: And the other foot is is in an icky guy. And are you familiar with the phrase achy guy, by any chance,

David Horsager: I’m not

Sam Horn: It’s it’s a Japanese word. It means a reason to get up in the morning. So what is your EQ guy goal and mine right now in tandem side by side.

Sam Horn: Is is getting the tongue.

Sam Horn: Book out in the world next year so that people can use these techniques at work at home online and in public.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Well, let’s let’s keep going.

David Horsager: Just keep we got to come back on as that book comes out. Let’s come back and and talk about this more but we go as we head to the end here, we hit a lightning round for everybody. It’s your turn, but

David Horsager: Let’s just start and we’ll get to anything else. If you want to cover something else after that you feel like, boy, I’ve got to share this. I want to hear it.

David Horsager: So,

David Horsager: Here we go. Favorite book or resource right now.

Sam Horn: Oh right now who, you know, what I would recommend a social dilemma on Netflix, you know, it’s, it is an eye opener about the addiction to social media and the ripple effect of isolation and depression and disconnection.

David Horsager: We watch very little TV. One of our biggest

David Horsager: Acts for my wife and I, is dealing with the kids on screen time and we watched it as a family. We talked about we had put parameters in place and whatnot, but very powerful and I can’t agree more. What’s something you can’t live without.

Sam Horn: Walking walking and swimming. I’m I’ve got a pool five minutes away in nature, open lanes. No, no, sharing lanes people kicking you in your face and so forth. So walking and swimming. I’m a happy camper.

David Horsager: Is I love it any key. Speaking of that, you know, leading yourself as important to leading others so unique key personal habit or routine, you have that just makes you better as a person or leader.

Sam Horn: It’s it’s clarify my three C’s and these are my non negotiable is everyday.

Sam Horn: Dale Carnegie said to live in a tight compartments and I believe in living in day right compartments. So I asked all of us to think, what are three things we do.

Sam Horn: And at the end of the day, no matter what else happened if we do these three we feel we did our half and those who may or connect contribute and cohort.

David Horsager: What was your cohort, most recently.

Sam Horn: My, my cohort is to move joyously you know and and really so like, yeah, I do laps. I, however, and I understand the importance of exercise and sweating and anaerobic and heart rate and so forth.

Sam Horn: However cavorting is doing what tick not Han said is to walk as if your feet are kissing the earth.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: I love it. Wow. Well, you shared many of them. And I know you have more. So what is a quote or thought to live by.

Sam Horn: It for me. Uh, well, can I do too.

Sam Horn: Is I often start every presentation with this quote because it really is a mantra for life is that Arthur Rubinstein said I have found if you love life, life will love you back.

Sam Horn: You know, and then I usually say, I love this program and to help you love it back, etc. However, I believe, go first. Right. We love life and then it will love us back.

Sam Horn: And the second is the one you and I shared at the beginning, David. It’s what Katharine Graham of The Washington Post said a reporter asked her what it was like running at that point, one of the country’s most important newspapers and she thought about it for a moment, she said.

Sam Horn: To do what you love and feel that it matters how could anything be more fun. Well, that’s what we get to do we get to do what we love feel that it matters and do it with people we enjoy and respect that put the light on in her eyes.

Sam Horn: Pretty good.

David Horsager: Isn’t it on deniability. I love it.

David Horsager: You got a question for us today can’t. I’m going to go to me first. My favorite food is ice cream. Everybody knows that. My favorite flavor. I will not share to influence you. But what’s your favorite flavor of ice cream.


Sam Horn: Huh, I guess it’s let’s give a shout out to Ben and Jerry’s is is everything but the, whatever. It’s got everything but the

Kitchen Sink

David Horsager: Maybe for you. I should say this. What’s your favorite food.


Sam Horn: You know, I would have to say what what I’m just going top of mine right now, fresh watermelon right batches.

David Horsager: Absolutely.

David Horsager: And for someone who loves, loves Hawaii. And, you know, just the summertime fun. Not that not that watermelons are known in Hawaii, but

David Horsager: Great. Well, I’ve got one more big question for you. But before we do that,

David Horsager: What a treat in this conversation. Sam, where can our listeners, find out more about you will put it all in the show notes. We’re going to put some connections. The Sam horn and

David Horsager: Her amazing books and tips and takeaways and where you can find out more about her, but give us the first place we should go.

Sam Horn: Thank you for doing that, David, it’s easy, it’s intrigue agency com so it’s i n TR I G agency, there’s information there about my pop master classes and my

Sam Horn: writing workshops and my TEDx talk is on there as well on how to get people’s eyebrows up in the first 60 seconds so intrigue agency com

David Horsager: Intrigue agency and she has more than one TED talk. I won’t TEDx talk, I’ll let you know she has a few and they’re all fantastic. So Sam. What a treat to have you here. Here’s the final question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Sam Horn: You know I trusted and he’s still around. Rod Laver I had the the privilege of working with Rod Laver won the Grand Slam of tennis twice Australian French Wimbledon.

Sam Horn: And one of the reasons that I trusted rocket is that he was such a class act he worked hard and he played hard and he was he was perpetually gracious

Sam Horn: You know, people would come up and say, I saw you play in St. Louis. He was always kind to every single person he met and so kudos to rocket for the example of class that he said it was enjoy working with him. What a treat to see people

David Horsager: That have class, as we say say onstage and off right

David Horsager: So well, it is been a delight. Thank you, Sam horn, for joining me. Thank you for the gift. You’ve given to our audience. And of course, you can find a whole lot more about Sam horn at trusted leader show.com

David Horsager: Look forward to seeing you next time and stay trusted

Ep. 5: Walter Bond on Why Leaders Should Coach And Not Be Fruit Inspectors

In this episode, David sits down with Walter Bond, Former NBA player, award winning speaker, trainer, and author, to discuss the Shark Mindset and why the best leaders are coaches and not fruit inspectors.

Walter’s Bio:
Walter’s mastery in two different global industries has made him an authority on peak performance. Walter has delivered his entertaining and dynamic message to companies and associations throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Europe. Clients include Accenture, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, The Dwyer Group, Allianz, Amway, GNC, Hilton, Medtronic, UPS Store, Radio Shack, Red Robin and many national associations.

Walter’s passion for personal development has been anchored by his professional basketball career. Although a reserve throughout his college basketball career at the University of Minnesota, Bond miraculously enjoyed an eight-year career while spending time as a shooting guard for teams such as the Dallas Mavericks, Utah Jazz and Detroit Pistons. This is where he learned peak performance truths that he has also applied to a wildly successful speaking career. Bond’s college basketball career did not say NBA at all. Only hard work, dedication and commitment got him there. That mentality is what he wants to share with your audience. Whether it’s a new product launch, hitting sales goals, gelling as a team Bond is passionate about sharing his 31 Truths to Boost Peak Performance.

In 2013, Walter appeared as the host of The Food Network’s show Giving You The Business. Walter was chosen over numerous candidates because of his infectious personality and franchise business experience. Episodes featured restaurants such as Saladworks, Famous Familia, Toppers and Jersey Mike’s.

Walter’s Links:
“SWIM” Book: https://amzn.to/3b26VDj
Website: https://walterbond.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WalterBondMotivationalSpeaker
Twitter: https://twitter.com/walterbond
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/walter_bond/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterbond/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/WalterBondMotivation

Key Quotes:
1. “Its your job to develop your people.”
2. “Smart companies are really training and developing organizations at their core.”
3. “Your average employee is who you need to focus on.”
4. “Are you a coach or are you a fruit inspector?”
5. “What are you doing with your human capital?”
6. “If you don’t have a way, all the individuals you hire are going to bring their own value systems.”
7. “You can’t be a great leader and be selfish!”
8. “Until you get down to that middle manager, you really have not built a culture.”
9. “Ownership is how you build culture.”
10. “A coach’s job is to identify a talent and then position that talent so they can reach their potential.”
11. “Great leaders build trust over time.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Traction” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3aeIL9A
“Rocket Fuel” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3aiJXbV

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse I grow back with you and I have a dear friend of mine, the NBA star, the

David Horsager: Speaker hall of famer, the author the board member and just a dear friend, we’ve been we’re on mastermind group.

David Horsager: 20 years ago maybe together, but his name is Walter bond and probably I saw him before he saw me because I remember Walter when you played for the great University of Minnesota.

David Horsager: And our basketball team. I was still in high school basketball team. And we came to watch you guys go to the sweet 16 in the Elite Eight and we’re sitting up in the barn wishing we were you guys and I watched you those years. So that was a fun treat. But, welcome to the show.

Walter Bond: Well, thanks day, you know, that was a long time ago, a lot of pounds ago you know

Walter Bond: Core. I’m an athlete and that’s what kind of taught me about life. They taught me about success principles and

Walter Bond: Then I just thank God that I chose the University of Minnesota was a great experience. And, you know, really set the platform for us to launch our training and development company and now raise my kids and myself. And so, thanks for having

David Horsager: Well, I am thrilled to have you. So it’s great to be here and I, you know, when we were starting out, we talked about this a little bit before the show, you know,

David Horsager: 20 years ago or whatever it was worth we’re moving on. I had been Director of an organization you had been of course in the NBA and and

David Horsager: You’ve had some other great leadership experiences because of that. But we’re starting to speak more and

David Horsager: I still remember some of those days were starting out and but now you’ve built quite a company into this great training and development company, you know,

David Horsager: Maybe even start with what are some of the setbacks with some of the challenges. How have you grown what you’ve grown today. I mean, you can start twice, at least in in in leadership business in life.

Walter Bond: We all day. Sometimes you have to reinvent, you know, and I want to cause any leader listening today, it’s okay. You know, because sometimes you have to ship.

Walter Bond: And when my basketball career was over as an athlete you know it’s going to end. One day, you just don’t know when. So

Walter Bond: When you play ball at a young age like 789 with the dream of playing in the NBA. And then you make it right. And then you plan to your 31 resolved literally day when I left the NBA.

Walter Bond: I know nothing about business all I understood was basketball. And so I had a wife and three kids and I never made the big money. And so I looked at my checking account.

Walter Bond: We had about a year to figure it out. And we stumbled into the speaking business and I’ve never had a real job. I’ve never been hired by a company

Walter Bond: So my wife and I literally figured it out from scratch. So everything we do is real, it’s organic. It is free of any corporate muck.

Walter Bond: Or any corporate politics. And for a long time. I thought that was a disadvantage.

Walter Bond: You know, because I want to speak to kids. When I first started speaking, you know, I would go to high schools and middle schools.

Walter Bond: Because at the time I didn’t feel equipped or worthy of speaking to accompany because I never had a real job but parents would hear me speak to the basketball team and high school kids.

Walter Bond: And the parents built my confidence and they will come to me. Dave and say, hey, our company needs to hear this. Oh boy. We’re dealing with this inside of our assumption. And I would say, like, really, and before I knew it, we left the youth market and we got into corporate america and while

Walter Bond: The rest is history, as they say. But you know, I really appreciate not having this huge corporate background and now sitting on corporate boards. So my whole mentality is

Walter Bond: Is simplistic and simple because most companies overthink everything, you know, a massive, massive fundamentals. The same thing is true for this.

David Horsager: Well, I say it all the time. You know I love and I’ve delved into research because I don’t want it to be just some, you know, kind of cheesy motivational idea.

David Horsager: But what we’ve learned is, if you don’t simplify it. No one will use it. It’s got to be so simple, in the midst of our crazy hectic world as leaders, I’ll use it tomorrow. So I, for me, not from basketball so much as

David Horsager: I think we were like one in 19 my senior year of high school, even though I was the captain, obviously, that was a that wasn’t something to be proud of right then.

David Horsager: But, but I think for me was growing up on the farm. You know, it’s like what it’s simple, clear truth that we got to cultivate it you gotta weed it you gotta do this, you get to that and and you know that a lot of that.

David Horsager: overlaps with business, but you’ve been now you’ve been on boards and all this. But let’s go back to basketball because

David Horsager: A lot of what you learn in teams there. You’ve brought to great high performing companies and you’ve spoken. Just so people know, and many do know you, but they know you’ve spoken to some of the biggest companies at some of the biggest events.

David Horsager: We got inducted into the speaker Hall of Fame, about the same time you are ahead of me.

David Horsager: At you are, you’re out there, you’re working and you’re actually leading and you’re asked for leadership advice and advising

David Horsager: Many of the greats even you know boards. So how do you, how do you relate what you learned in basketball or being a teammate to what you’re doing now and how you’re equipping boards to perform at their best, or excuse me, companies.

Walter Bond: Yeah, you know, again, it all started with sports and I’m hoping for that. You know, honestly, my father was my high school principal and honestly that’s really

Walter Bond: When I began to understand leadership and, you know, throughout my sports career. You know, I had some amazing coaches and I had a few bad ones and

Walter Bond: Each opportunity I learned in fact my first team. I played on it was called the eagles, and we did not win one game, the whole entire season.

Walter Bond: And I remember my coach smell flowers and when you seven, eight years old. I didn’t know what that meant. He just had this funny smell. Long story short, my first baseball coach was an alcoholic.

Walter Bond: And he will come to practice drunk every day set no expectations. We didn’t practice. Are we didn’t improve that we were just awful.

Walter Bond: The good news is that team stayed together and we got a new coach same player new coach. His name is Mike

Walter Bond: And Mike flag build our confidence. He said expectations and by the time we were 12 years old, our team was dominant

Walter Bond: And so I saw the transformation, we went from the Bad News Bears with the coach a leader who was alcoholic and bless his heart. He had a problem, but he did not have influence over our team. The Same guy. Same players.

Walter Bond: Different coach different leader transformed us into a dominant team. And so that’s how I begin understanding life before I was even 12 years old.

Walter Bond: And I ended up flunking out of a first high school. I don’t even know if you know that I went to the top academic School in Chicago and these were the smartest kids will Chicago and I got my lunch, hand it to me.

Walter Bond: Because I didn’t think I was the smartest, they were you know I always was competitive athletically always did great socially. But when I got to this high school

Walter Bond: I was basically defeated the day school started because all these kids with smart and I never even competed in the classroom. So I transferred to my dance school

Walter Bond: In the hood and one of the lowest income areas of Chicago, and I saw my badly I saw him operate. I saw him build confidence. I saw him set expectations.

Walter Bond: And before I knew it, I began to not only have an amazing father

Walter Bond: My high school principal was amazing as well. And then I go to college and play for a great coach like Clem Haskins because hassles was a demand.

Walter Bond: I mean, he drove you he made you get better in every year. This player development was off the chain that man produce more NBA players and probably any goal for coaching history and he wasn’t winning in a recruiting that

Walter Bond: He will get his hands on a raw talent and he will develop it. And so that’s my message for any leader, you know, it’s your job to develop your people. You know what I love sports and got into business, David.

Walter Bond: I was disappointed in the player development inside of companies, you just hire, fire people. Oh, you had a person you on board and now developer

Walter Bond: And so that’s what we really bring to our corporate clients and this is my final comment.

Walter Bond: On that little tangent, I just give you the smart companies are really training and development organizations out there. Cool.

Walter Bond: And if any leader can get that, that it’s my job to change the culture. It’s my job to develop people training and development is a no brainer. And that’s what we’re bringing to our fights.

David Horsager: I love it. So, you know, one thing you talked about and you got the new book called swim and you talk about this responsibility of leaders to really

David Horsager: Be mentors, not just run through people but develop them tell it. Tell me, how do you do it, how does it we we got leaders on today from fortune 500 to

David Horsager: Two small companies, but they’re developing people and they they are. They’re about ready to fire him because they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. And, and yet, could they devote. How would they go about that. How would you go about that.

Walter Bond: No, no, here’s a true, you know, we follow sports and everyone focuses on LeBron and Kobe and Tom Brady is so easy for people to focus on superstars.

Walter Bond: But there’s only a handful of, you know, even in the average high school, you got some a students, obviously, you got some brilliant kids.

Walter Bond: You got some kids, causing problems and we always talk about the 8020 rule right where 20% of people do you know 80% of the work or, you know, even in financial services, for example.

Walter Bond: They always do these events and they take their high performers to these incentive trips

Walter Bond: And it’s the same people who qualify every year and always asking business leaders, and what are you doing to see students

Walter Bond: Why do I ask a question day I flunked out on my first High School. He or am as a thought leader sitting on corporate boards writing best selling books and I flunked out of high school.

Walter Bond: But let me tell you what my high school principal did at my second High School. He built my confidence and he said expectation

Walter Bond: He built my confidence and set expectation at the University of Minnesota. I was a highly polluted right but I sat down with my coach every year and I would ask them task is, what do I need to do to play in the NBA.

Walter Bond: And he would tell me. Right. You gotta lose 15 pounds. You got to work with you. Nothing. Come on, let’s get the gym and rebuild your junction

Walter Bond: Right, let’s go and practice this word Carson, get in better shape and four years later, I’m in the NBA. Of course he’s one of my favorite leaders, of course I talk about them all the time.

Walter Bond: Right, so I’ll change any leader or your people talking about, you know, if I sat down with all of your subordinates and ask them, Who is your favorite leader. And why would they even mention your name.

Walter Bond: Right. And so if you go back to school. We all have a favorite teacher. Why, because that favorite teacher had impact.

Walter Bond: They either built our confidence or they supported us so they they work with us one on one. You know, I’ve worked with so many people that the smart companies and smart leaders get this your average employee is who you need to focus on

Walter Bond: stop focusing all your top producers and these incentive trips your C student your air average performer is 60% of your organization.

Walter Bond: That’s my training and development is so important. Your superstars. They showed up as superstars your leadership experience is going to be based on what did you do with your C student

Walter Bond: So my father knows he had impact comes Haskins knows what he did with me.

Walter Bond: As an average recruit average ball player that’s what leaders should be focused on

David Horsager: So I’ve got, I’ve got an average recruiter average players. I mean, that is, how do you instill I mean this could be from people’s kids to people’s employees. Right. How do I build confidence, how do, how did you, how did people build confidence in you. How does that happen.

Walter Bond: Well, you know, here’s what I challenge my audience with and I love the fact that now they were in these big venues these big ballrooms with these big leaders and I don’t back down.

Walter Bond: I challenged them and I basically asked the question I want to ask right now and any leader, I want to ask you the same question right now. Are you a coach or you are certain specs.

Walter Bond: Are you a coach or are you a fruit inspector. You don’t want to be as doing spec fruit. You go to the grocery store and you grab apples and you look at him and say this apples.

Walter Bond: Apples bad this orange looks good. It looks bad this banana looks good. It’s banana looks bad, and you’re just choosing right but but a couch.

Walter Bond: They develop their people and so fruit inspectors have a high turnover. Okay. Fruit inspectors don’t build confidence fruit inspectors don’t build the right culture that is trying

Walter Bond: To get star players to hopefully make them look good. A real coach will take a raw material and say, You know what, this person has potential

Walter Bond: But it’s my job to help them reach their potential. And so what we do with our leadership trainings and all of our leadership programs. And that’s why I wrote the book swim.

Walter Bond: The star. The book swim is a guy named drew, and he on purpose. Went and recruited misfits but he plugged them into their training and development program.

Walter Bond: And he built an amazing at that company with broken people, you know, we have people out here who obviously are imperfect who are flawed, who have weaknesses and that’s what great coaches come in.

Walter Bond: And if you can become a great coach as a leader with simply means I get that you have numbers, you have to hit you have to responsibilities that you have to keep the stock price.

Walter Bond: But a big part of your job is player development. What are you doing with your human capital and if we can teach day that leaders how important if you talk about a trusted leader.

Walter Bond: You helped me develop man. I’m going to trust you. And not only that, I’m going to run through a wall for you.

Walter Bond: So any smart leader will become a coach, instead of being a fruit inspector and when you become a coach, the people that you lead are going to naturally trust you because you help them to though.

David Horsager: I love it. You know, a lot of what you talked about at least over the years since we were in a mastermind. I don’t know, over a decade ago together as you talk about team.

David Horsager: And you talk about discipline and accountability and I still remember you know Karl Malone was an example. The you tell us about that.

Walter Bond: You know Carmelo and john Stockton and I gotta Jerry slow story that I love to tell you know Karl Malone.

Walter Bond: Arguably the greatest power for one of all time. This guy lifted weights every single day and it was very disciplined with his body. I mean, he was 692 hundred and 56 pounds.

Walter Bond: And we will go out and he and I would think he was a jerk and very difficult in restaurants.

Walter Bond: He would tell the waiter. You know, I want a grilled chicken caesar salad. But when you grew my chicken breasts. Don’t put in the chat box on my chicken breasts.

Walter Bond: And I will go behind his back. Apologize. I’m thinking he’s been difficult. Just arrogant me I eat whatever they brought me French rather than order, but they look good milkshake.

Walter Bond: You know, I sit nothing back. And long story short, he had one of the best bodies of all time and my coaches always told me I needed to lose weight.

Walter Bond: Karl Malone was incredibly disciplined and I’m telling you. He lifted weights.

Walter Bond: Every single day john Stockton. My God, he went to a chiropractor four times a day. There’s a chiropractor in Utah, that he made famous Stockton played until he was 14 years old.

Walter Bond: And both of these guys were extremely different discipline extremely focused love playing basketball but just the discipline that I learned for both of these guys.

Walter Bond: was unbelievable. But the kicker with Jerry Sloan Jerry Sloan just passed away and I went out to Utah to honor him because he has such an impact on my life because he taught me something very valuable. We didn’t scrimmage. In practice, and I’m trying to make the team.

Walter Bond: And I’m trying to figure out, Jerry.

Walter Bond: We’re basketball players, but we don’t play basketball. All we did with drills day

Walter Bond: All we did with your so I go to Jerry Sloan. And I said, Jerry. I’m trying to make your team, but since we don’t scrimmage and practice.

Walter Bond: I feel like I can show you what I can do. I’m stressing out my MBA careers on life support. I got a wife. I got three kids, but this was his answer was Dave and it really

Walter Bond: Is one of the pillars of our training and development company, and it really changed my life as it relates to life after basketball. He said, Walter already know what you can do.

Walter Bond: But if you want to make my team, I suggest you listen follow directions and execute. If you listen

Walter Bond: If you follow directions. And if you execute. You’ll be fine. So what he was really saying day is like, look, I want to see if you can follow the Utah Jazz way. I know you are good ball player on your own.

Walter Bond: But if you want to make my team. You got to play the Utah Jazz way chick fil a has a way

Walter Bond: Target has a way so great leaders great companies built cultures, but most importantly they they create a way and they find the right players that buy into the way. See if you don’t have a way

Walter Bond: All the individuals you hire going to bring their own value system.

Walter Bond: And if you don’t have a way their individual value systems are going to take over. That’s why we have so much dysfunction. That’s why we have so much chaos.

Walter Bond: And the only way you can really build a great organization is being a great leader who understands how to build away how to teach away and then to find the right players that fit your way and that’s what greatness is all about.

David Horsager: Let’s jump to, you know, you’ve been on several boards. You’re now on the Jersey Mike’s board as one example. What’s it take to be create a high trust board.

David Horsager: Or be a high trust board member. I mean, you know, I sit on boards like you do. And we’re, you know that I often say the biggest risk of a board is losing trust and so

David Horsager: You know, what do you see as the common out where you see great board members or become a great board a great board what’s there.

Walter Bond: You know, to me, you, you have a team, you know, and just like a basketball team. You know, and we teach teamwork.

Walter Bond: I remember we had a team in college. You remember him and then Richard coffee Richard coffee could rebound.

Walter Bond: And that was about it. And I remember being younger, I should be low critical LIKE ME. YOU CAN’T SHOOT YOU CAN’T DRIBBLE

Walter Bond: All you can do is rebounding but you know what, as I’m a tour.

Walter Bond: I like to do least the big 10 and rebounding. In fact, he’s like the best six foot six rebounder I’ve ever seen in my life.

Walter Bond: And he made the Timberwolves as an undersized power follow it because he was such a great rebounder. And so it really taught me that if you’re going to have a great board your board needs to be diverse.

Walter Bond: In thought and skill set in the ability and any board I come on. Look, don’t give me your spreadsheet.

Walter Bond: Don’t. Don’t talk to me about the fiduciary responsibility because that’s not my specialty. I want to really impact your human capital.

Walter Bond: And that’s why I’m on Jersey Mike’s board because Peter can crawl the founder, understand that kind of impact. I can have on people.

Walter Bond: And he can find anybody to do to the CFO and the spreadsheet and and all the other responsibilities, but I’m on his board because he wants me to impact. His people.

Walter Bond: And he said many times, Walter when the people business you’re an expert with people and I need your voice.

Walter Bond: My people need to hear your voice, not only internally but externally. THIS MAN. HE WAS ME. I DID 25 keynotes across the country for all of his managers. Think about that.

Walter Bond: I mean, these kids are 1719 2021 years old he invested in the managers why watch this analogy, if someone’s in great shape. All you gotta do is check their apps that midsection.

Walter Bond: Don’t tell me you’re in shape and you gotta flabby stomach, right. So, to me, a great organization that’s going to be in shape. You got to get leadership baked all the way down to that middle manager.

Walter Bond: A lot of companies aren’t willing to invest and spend time developing the middle manager. That’s why McDonald’s is so special. Why they created a hamburger University and the focus was a middle manager, the apps that midsection.

Walter Bond: And I say that right now because back in the day I had a six pack. Now I got a big belly.

David Horsager: Still there.

David Horsager: I gotta find it, buddy.

David Horsager: I ain’t gonna say, you know what, we’re back when you played your 200 pounds. You’ve kind of

David Horsager: What 652 hundred pounds of it doesn’t show on Wikipedia. What you are today.

Walter Bond: Right. It’s none of your business.

David Horsager: But, you know, imagine what you’re doing with leaders.

Walter Bond: at the executive level. I mean, and I’m sure you do this, we gotta make this thing all the way down to that middle manager.

Walter Bond: Because until you get down to that middle manager, you really have not built a culture.

Walter Bond: And we have a client, I’m not gonna say their name is a major automotive organization and they lose middle managers and they don’t know why.

Walter Bond: And I know why because you’re not developing middle managers. Now here’s the truth that all leaders need to understand at a subconscious level. This is what people think.

Walter Bond: If I can reach my potential here I stay if I can’t reach my potential here. I leave it happens in sports, it happens in business. It happens in life.

Walter Bond: It happens in marriage and happens in every organization is embedded in our DNA. Can I reach my potential here. So the channels for me leader is that you have to be able to convince

Walter Bond: The day you hire someone that you can reach your potential here.

Walter Bond: And. Matter of fact, I’m going to make sure you do because that is my job for you to reach your potential here. If you can’t reach your potential here. That’s when we have high turnover.

Walter Bond: Okay, that’s when you have apathy. That’s when you have poor alignment. Why, because they’re not convinced. I can reach my potential here.

Walter Bond: And to me, that’s what McDonald’s and chick fil a and great organizations do. And so one of our biggest messages Day to all of our corporate clients is that smart companies.

Walter Bond: Are training and development organizations at that core because of your training and development organization at your core those middle managers who have have potential men, they’re going to start waking up.

Walter Bond: They will start popping like popcorn. You know, they might walk in, you know, a little disheveled and smelling like weed and

Walter Bond: A little Emma tour. But if you’re training and development organization McDonald’s has hired a brand new Chief Diversity Officer and he started with MCDONALD’S WHEN HE WAS 16 years old off the street.

Walter Bond: Wow, that’s what training and development can

David Horsager: I say this often that you know

David Horsager: I think I was reading this was last year’s data, but the container company Container Store.

David Horsager: That’s the CEO, there’s, you know, and they’re beating everybody in their industry doesn’t sound like a, you know, this hot fund industry. But they’re beating me. I said, Well, how are you doing, he said, Well basically we can take every one person I’m tournament, a three in our industry, we have

David Horsager: Most people spend eight hours of training and development on the frontline employees. We spent 200 200 in the first year said, that’s why we are where we are at the top of the industry and you and I both know

David Horsager: There’s people that love chicken land don’t. But the point is, is their number one, you know, meet next is McDonald’s and Panera at 2.5 million

David Horsager: annual revenue average per store and nothing between them and chick fil a without working on Sundays 4.4 million

David Horsager: Average per store revenue per year. It’s unbelievable difference. And how did they win, even as the CEO says it’s just checking it actually is. It’s not laced in crack like people think it’s just chicken.

David Horsager: And and and the deal is said, we went on learning development, we get the same kids as McDonald’s.

David Horsager: They didn’t come out of the womb, saying, My pleasure, we train them and and that’s where training development can change the culture. So I love that it’s true.

David Horsager: That we’re both in this business, we built that that’s what we built, you know, we want to develop people because we can develop them.

David Horsager: Into the greatest leaders and the highest performance when we develop them based on trust, which is in essence what you’re what you’re doing with teams and everything so

David Horsager: Hey, let’s get personal for a second, you know,

David Horsager: Your leadership starts at home. It starts personally. It starts with our own so I know your your wife you married out of your league. She’s amazing. As we know,

David Horsager: And I did the same. So we’re saying that we can show our wisdom of judgment in our, in our marriages. At least that with me to Lisa and you had to Antoinette, but what are habits, you know, as I’ve known you and you’re working accountability and building good habits.

David Horsager: You know it’s we often say you don’t change organization.

David Horsager: You change a person. And when you change one, then they can change a team and then they can change it come in and pretty soon you can change the country but you

David Horsager: You start by changing one and and and and it starts with us. But what are some habits you built, you know, you

David Horsager: You know the importance of discipline and habits you lived it in the NBA and other places. But what do you do today, whether it’s physically you know in your relationships with your, your family, you got some great kids there. What, what are some habits you that every day. I do this.

Walter Bond: Right, well, you know what I try to be positive, you know,

Walter Bond: Because that’s I remember when I flunked out of my high school I was embarrassed.

Walter Bond: My dad was positive, you know, my mother to said maybe enlightens hasn’t clicked on yet. You’ll be fine.

David Horsager: No, Walter. No, that’s right.

David Horsager: No Walter you positively failed. Yeah, I mean I flunked out in you know my dad would wake me up in the morning.

Walter Bond: Wake up, Moses, you know, Moses from the Bible. I remember when I flunked out. I was like Moses.

Walter Bond: I was like it was just that kind of guy he wouldn’t browbeat you we wouldn’t criticize you. I mean, he was a straight shooter and I don’t get me wrong. He didn’t sugarcoat anything but

Walter Bond: After his focus mindset is peace, he would go back to being positive. So that’s why I try and provide for my kids.

Walter Bond: And I believe in ownership, you know, you know I want people to own their lives, you know, and, and with with my wife for me. She’s my business partner.

Walter Bond: And she owns her responsibility, you know, she she negotiates the contract right she manages the website. She does the market, she deals with all of our vendors

Walter Bond: My wife is my business partner. And I’m not saying that in name only. She legitimately is my business partner and she has her responsibilities.

Walter Bond: I have mine and I try and tell her everyday. She’s doing a great job, you know, and she last Sunday I say you did a great job. You know, we just hired our daughter and I needed to get her new word

Walter Bond: Internet, you do a great job. I’m gonna get our daughter her work her own word, but she does all of our video technology or editing.

Walter Bond: She’s been with us for a year and I want everybody to own this stuff, you know, like if I’m on a keynote platform that’s me. That’s my if I’m writing a book that’s me. That’s mine. But I need you to own your slack because think about it they you know you and I in college rented apartments.

Walter Bond: The only thing we cared about was that security deposit

Walter Bond: We never upgraded the property. We never painted it, we never thought about playing painting it, we never thought about upgrading the property. Why, because we rented it but the moment we bought a house.

Walter Bond: The whole mentality shift that we’re going to paint. We’re going to cut the grass who parked on my yard.

Walter Bond: Oh, we get very territorial why because we own it. So when I deal with my clients I asked them when you build a culture, are you hurting renters owners.

Walter Bond: Most companies they hire renters. I’m just reading this job. And so when I give it back to you in two years or three years or 10 years it’s going to be exactly the same.

Walter Bond: It might even be a little worse. But I found that you own marketing.

Walter Bond: If I let you own social media. If I met you own training and development or curriculum. If I let you own it is yours, and you’re going to take care of it much better than I will.

Walter Bond: And so to me, ownership is how you build culture ownership is how you build family, and as my kids with torn progress.

Walter Bond: We got three kids and three jobs and then my little own go smack you know it’s not my job to tell you what to do and and try and control your every move.

Walter Bond: You make your own decisions and understand that some consequences to it.

Walter Bond: Good luck. If you want to help me if you want me to help you rationalize some stuff and you want me to be a sounding board. Cool. But I want you to own your smack

Walter Bond: My wife does a great job owning her responsibilities. My daughter kills owning her responsibility and it’s my job to own my responsibility and I don’t care how big the company is we need to have own

Walter Bond: And stop hiring people to rent, because that’s the culture you build and then you wonder why people keep leaving. Then you wonder why you have high turnover man stop hurting renters and start recruiting owners that’s going to own their response to you.

David Horsager: How do you just give us one quick tip. How do you, how do you hire owners instead of renters.

Walter Bond: Um, well, a lot of is done in the hiring process. But when you onboarding, you know, basically you give them responsibility.

Walter Bond: And you set an expectation. But you give them the room to be themselves, you know, in our teamwork methodology we we coined the phrase, we call them work expressions.

Walter Bond: And people need to go to work and express themselves based on who they are naturally and in sports, you can play someone out of position and evaluate

Walter Bond: Tom Brady’s a great quarterback. Right. You can’t play him in any other position in the NFL, he’ll get embarrassed. Right. But as a quarterback. He’s the best of all time.

Walter Bond: I think the same thing is true inside of a company as a coach, it is my job to evaluate my talent.

Walter Bond: And then put them in a position of success. And I tell you a quick story. Our youngest daughter Cory was a track star in Minnesota and all the upper Midwest.

Walter Bond: My daughter did not lose a 100 200 to 400 meter dash in any state in the Midwest, we move to Florida. So I’m thinking, hey, my girls a star in Minnesota.

Walter Bond: We in Florida. I’m a fan of Trump talk track coach in Florida, and she want to be a sprinter. We can get outside when you’re around, I found the top track coach.

Walter Bond: And for two weeks. I will practice. I will watch it and even say much, and eventually comes up to me says, Man, I like your daughter, she’s strong, but we have to find her, and then

Walter Bond: I’m like, hello. She’s a spirit or 100 200 400. We just moved here from Minnesota. Two weeks ago, she has not lost her race in Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa. What are you talking about, she’s a sprinter. He got no she can’t run with my girls.

Walter Bond: We want to find her and event. I’m upset I’m frustrated that I make a mistake, then he comes to me day

Walter Bond: He goes, Okay, I get it. She’s really a heptathlete but she’s too young. So I want to start her and triple john I’m like dude.

Walter Bond: What are you doing, we’ve been here for two weeks it long story short,

Walter Bond: I did my research, and he was a top coach in South Florida and got out the way and I let my coach that I chose do his job.

Walter Bond: My daughter’s in the in the in the in the sand pit in triple jump is a little bit of an awkward event.

Walter Bond: Man She looks like she’s about to tear her leg or ACL breaker ankle. She’s getting in the car frustrated and I’m like, you know, we got to trust the coach, man. Four months later they my daughter was an All American triple jumper.

Walter Bond: Four months later. Wow. And it taught me just all one that man knows how to coach to stay in your lane that

Walter Bond: Right, I didn’t know track. I know sports but I didn’t know track.

Walter Bond: But a coach’s job is to identify talent and then position that talent, so they they can reach their potential. Right. So the five work expressions that we teach our innovators.

Walter Bond: Initiator initiators instigators Improvers and implemented and in business. We only celebrate innovators, which is crazy to me that’s like watching the basketball game and we only celebrate the point guards. No other position matters, the pointer.

Walter Bond: In business, you mean opposition. You need innovators, right. You need initiators like Mark Zuckerberg. He’s an initiator.

Walter Bond: That was not his idea. He stolen right but he initiated, he brought it to life instigators okay

Walter Bond: I’ll stay bomber owner. The LA Clippers he’s an instigator if you watch this video for 30 seconds you were realized, he’s an instigator

Walter Bond: And I hate to say it is controversial. Our President Donald Trump is an instigator where he gets his who he is.

Walter Bond: And you mean instigators but sometimes instigators need to get coached because sometimes instigators or misunderstood and sometimes they spiral out of control. But the bottom line is an instigator should act as if like the immune system.

Walter Bond: You know, pick about our immune system if anything is not right. It attacks it

Walter Bond: And that’s the role of an instigator

Walter Bond: Not just to instigate for the sake of it, but really seeing what’s not right and attacking was not right, but we know also the immune system can overreact.

Walter Bond: And sometimes the immune system can get out of whack. So an instigator on a team is like Dennis Rodman

Walter Bond: You know, Draymond Green, you know, the Detroit Pistons had the bad boys and hockey, we call them the bruiser

Walter Bond: Right, you got to have an instigator and we teach this so well. We’ve had instigators that we’ve assessed call us and say, Walter. I got fired today and do. You’re right. You won’t need I overdid it like I want to win, but I just I just did it I over instigated

Walter Bond: Right, so we got to teach instigators

Walter Bond: How to instigate and that’s what coaches do so you got innovators, the initiators instigators and then you have improvers when I think about an improver I think Oprah Winfrey

Walter Bond: You know, I think, I think Nelson Mandela, I think Martin Luther King was an improver right he didn’t innovate anything

Walter Bond: But he improved the world he improves society and right inside of every company there improvers there’s instigators right there’s initiators

Walter Bond: And there’s implemented, when I think about implemented. That’s the Lee Iacocca jack Welch just workers just grinders. And so nothing about a team.

Walter Bond: You need to have a team that’s balanced with innovators initiators instigators improves the implements. I’m a sports guy. You can’t have five centers and think you’re going to win. You can have five point guards and think you’re going to win.

Walter Bond: You got to have a team that’s balanced with everyone playing their position and the coast directing traffic.

Walter Bond: And getting all these amazing town of the pieces working together like Richard coffee, who could only rebound.

Walter Bond: But my God my coke knew how to use that I was all around. I could do everything so he didn’t need to duplicate that Richard you rebirth and if we get either out rebound it, that’s your fault. Walter your versatile. So you give us what we’re lacking.

Walter Bond: In any situation. You’re so versatile. You become the wild card and una right Willie Burton, you can score. Do you just score your score your score and that’s how our great coach built a team.

Walter Bond: So if your team is that balance. You don’t have resources and we do case studies with BlackBerry. What happened to BlackBerry.

Walter Bond: Everyone had a blackberry phone now you can’t find one why something was flawed with their team. And so when we get inside of organizations and work with leaders to me. It’s not about leadership as much as it is, it is about teamwork because leader. Your job is to build a team.

Walter Bond: And so we give our leaders, a blueprint on how to build a high performing team and become an ultimate coach.

Walter Bond: Who understands their personnel, they understand the innovator, they understand the initiated instigated the implemented and that’s what great coaches doing football right they understand why receivers. Want to get touches

Walter Bond: They understand eroded back wants to get touches. They understand the quarterback wants to throw the ball is somehow they have an orchestra. They’re the maestro of the orchestra and get all this talent and all these pieces working together in harmony.

David Horsager: I love it. Well, you can find out more, and we’ll put that will put that in the show notes. But my goodness, those five. I love it. And we’ve talked about that. I still remember being in my boardroom at my last offices, when you were just

David Horsager: Heading back to Florida and talking through those five and the assessments and everything you’re building with creating high performing team so

Walter Bond: Let me say that David was saying is

Walter Bond: You inspire me. I mean, we don’t have to go deep on that but you inspired me. We had a we had a conversation he challenged me

Walter Bond: And you’re absolutely right. And since that conversation. You know, I had to work on me and really become more of just a performer.

Walter Bond: Right and really understand like, man, like I can really impact companies like I can really help organizations. He hit their goals. And so since we had our come to Jesus meeting.

Walter Bond: You know, my wife and I got in the lab and start started building content right and started developing a teamwork methodology that can can come and really help organizations.

Walter Bond: And I want to thank you for that and

Walter Bond: You know, you, you, you were the perfect

Walter Bond: Peer to really kind of jerk my chain a little bit and kind of say hey man, you know, you’re great keynote speaker. But, you know, we need more out of you.

Walter Bond: You know, let’s become a thought leader and a true consultant that can help organizations transform

Walter Bond: And we heard you loud and clear.

David Horsager: Well, I’m proud of what you’ve done. And maybe we, you know, we’re friends. So we can be direct with each other and that’s what I get paid to tell the truth, but I certainly wouldn’t want to tell two friends and

David Horsager: You’ve done some just amazing work in life and I’m so grateful grateful that we’re friends. So

David Horsager: Hey, we’re gonna go to a lightning round. Keep them real short here. Here we go. We got to wrap it up. I want to hear what you think about this one thing that motivates you.

01:01:30.300 –> 01:01:31.200
Walter Bond: Getting better

Walter Bond: You know force you have an off season. I love to get better.

David Horsager: Love it. What’s a book or favorite resource these days.

Walter Bond: Swim. Same with

David Horsager: You

Walter Bond: Um,

Walter Bond: You know, actually the first book that comes to my mind is traction

Walter Bond: Traction is a great book.

Walter Bond: Gina Whitman.

Walter Bond: Really helped me because I didn’t have a corporate background to really retraction and get some intel on how to really be a business leader has really helped our company as well. So traction

David Horsager: Yep, on the whole entrepreneurial operating system and

David Horsager: All that rocket fuels the next book if you’re if you’re into that kind of thing. It’s fantastic. What about any quick one. I know you got many but effectively or productivity tip.

Walter Bond: Look out first thing the morning

Walter Bond: Workout. Firstly,

David Horsager: Firstly, what’s your, what’s your, what’s your workout.

Walter Bond: Right now we’re walking right now I’m walking

Walter Bond: Into about two and a half miles. I’m gonna get up to about five miles and I come back and just do some push ups.

Walter Bond: Because you know when you’re when you’re in shape, physically, your mind is sharp as well and coach Haskins had a saying fatigue will make a coward out of us have us all.

Walter Bond: And as you get tired. That’s when you make mistakes. You’ll make turnovers. And so being in shape, physically, you know, releases all kind of endorphins that really helps our mental capacity.

Walter Bond: And so working as a great stress release. I’m thinking I’m being creative. I’m getting outside. So the first thing I do in the morning is go for really hard brisk walk and I’m eventually

Walter Bond: Progress into running

Walter Bond: Good Hope, but the studies have shown that just

Walter Bond: Just walking. Yeah. Is, is the most powerful exercise.

David Horsager: You know when I lost 50

David Horsager: Pounds and five and a half months in 2011 and basically have kept you know most of that off for a decade, almost

David Horsager: One of the things I got back to and you know I was as much as that wasn’t a basketball players all state and football and I love you know I love sports and stuff and

David Horsager: I remember this doctor saying, David, you can’t. You cannot run a cheeseburger and and the deal was, you know, you can’t eat that 2000 calorie deal. You can’t go you know you walk, you know,

David Horsager: Just exercise that off. So you got to think of what your input. You want to run a Ferrari or a Junker you got to put different fuel in the Ferrari.

David Horsager: But the other thing was, he said, you know, one of the best exercises is walking, actually, people think it’s swimming, swimming is great.

David Horsager: But walking, especially walking with wheat. Wait, so I still this morning. I got up and walked on the treadmill with these few pound weights and I walk and it just is a

David Horsager: It’s not high impact. I do elliptical and some other things, but it’s something I still have in my rhythm of working out this walking piece and there’s there’s some incredible health benefits just to walking

David Horsager: Briskly, as you said, so I love that idea. I don’t hear everybody say that and I had learned it from an executive coach, years ago, before I kind of decided that I needed to change.

David Horsager: My

David Horsager: What do you call it just make up. I guess I’ll say right so

David Horsager: Good. What, what’s one left one thing left on the bucket list for Walter bond.

Walter Bond: Ah, you know, for, for my wife and I both. I mean we we want to build a business that lives on beyond us.

Walter Bond: You know, in the model is Dale Carnegie, I mean this guy died in 1954 and he’s still relevant today because he created trainings that are helping people transform. And so for me.

Walter Bond: You know, being a kid and flunked out of high school, the ultimate bucket list for me will be able to leave a business and live on lives on beyond us.


Walter Bond: You know that that’s the first thing that comes to my mind.

Walter Bond: Yeah. Also want to travel the world and and my wife. I love to travel. We love nice home you know we love nice houses, you know, so we Snowbird it for years. We just put out three kids to college.

Walter Bond: And so, you know, we like traveling and seeing amazing stuff and and we’re doing a cruise this summer on a Ritz Carlton. They got a new yacht. And so just doing cool stuff like that. But the biggest one is leaving a company that will live on beyond us.

David Horsager: Great.

David Horsager: Well, we’re working people. I got one last question for you, before I get to that. Where can people find out about you. Where’s the

David Horsager: Number one place to go.

Walter Bond: Walter bond.com you know everything kind of builds. From there, we have a bunch of websites and a bunch of different

Walter Bond: Divisions of our company. But Walter bond calm is is the best place and I want to encourage everyone to watch our video sharp mindset.

Walter Bond: We’ve had over 3.5 million views on YouTube, the Cleveland Browns football team.

Walter Bond: One of the coaches saw it on on YouTube and he had me in front of their team like 10 days later shark mindset. And that’s what we kind of break down what’s in the book swim with sharks run the ocean for reason and the shark mindset is a movement now that a lot of people enjoy

David Horsager: Well, that’s something you can be proud of. With how Cleveland’s playing this year compared to the last 17 years. So, you know, I often. In fact, I got one once introduced this way, where it’s like, yes, he spoken to Congress. Twice he must not be very good.

David Horsager: So at least you can say you you put that in front of

David Horsager: Cleveland and look at the turnaround they’ve had. So I

David Horsager: Love that.

David Horsager: Hey we we end the show with one simple question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why

Walter Bond: Wow alive.

You Peck.

Walter Bond: You know Jesus Christ.

Walter Bond: You know Jesus Christ, I trust that dude.

Walter Bond: That is

Walter Bond: It since I’ve been calling them. That name is things have been working out so that that would be as as a mortal

Walter Bond: Again, Peter came from, you know, Jersey Mike’s subs. My God, like through the coronavirus I’ve seen him lead and they’re up like 20% they just opened 210 stores in a pandemic.

Walter Bond: So to me, his franchisees trust him. I made his franchisees will run through a wall for him. They’re doing renovations remodels and he’s paying for it.

Walter Bond: And we’re talking over 2000 locations that’s unheard of. Right. And so, you know, we talked about family environment and corporate america but very few people

Walter Bond: Really know how to build it and think mom and dad build trust, you know, Mom. Mom and Dad build trust over time. And I think that’s what great leaders do they build trust over time.

Walter Bond: And through your actions, it should become obvious that you love me and Peter can crow in the context of corporate america

Walter Bond: He led America know because through a pandemic. He was on TV, giving stuff away, you know, think about it through a pandemic. They gave $2 million to feeding America and they have a dad giving

Walter Bond: In April, where every store in America Jersey Mike’s they give the whole day proceeds to a charity.

Walter Bond: Of their choice. You know, so not only is he generous. He’s basically convinced his franchisees to become generous as well and Jersey Mike’s is coming on strong and a lot of it has to do with culture and Peter camp rose leadership.

David Horsager: Its culture its culture wins. Yes.

David Horsager: Well, everybody. We’ve heard a lot today and I a few things that come to mind for me. You must become a servant of your team, you can’t be a great leader and be selfish. At the same time, they just don’t go together.

David Horsager: Are you going to coach. Are you going to be a fruit inspector, you gotta let them, own it. If your employees.

David Horsager: You gotta let your employees know they can reach their potential here. There’s a whole lot more unless I love this. And this is so true unless you get down to the middle managers. You have not changed the culture.

David Horsager: All this and more. I hope you enjoyed the show. It’s been the trusted leader show what a gift. IT’S BEEN TO HAVE YOU ON Walter bond. Until next time, we’ll look forward to seeing you all stay trusted

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