Ep. 66: Ross Bernstein on How Great Teams Create And Sustain Momentum

In this episode, David sits down with Ross Bernstein, Best-Selling Author and Hall of Fame Keynote Speaker, to discuss The Champion’s Code and how great athletes and teams create and sustain momentum.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Ross’s Bio:
The best-selling author of nearly 50 sports books, Ross Bernstein is an award-winning peak performance hall of fame business speaker who’s keynoted conferences on all seven continents and has been featured on thousands of television and radio programs including: CNN, “CBS This Morning,” ESPN, and Fox News, as well as in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and USA Today.

Ross’ Links:
Website: https://www.rossbernsteinspeaking.com/
“America’s Coach” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/356uITf
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ross-bernstein-csp-cpae-75ab9a/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/RossBernstein

Key Quotes:
1. “The Champion’s Code is about winning with integrity.”
2. “If you break the rules, there’s consequences.”
3. “Win the right way.”
4. “A goal made one guy happy. But an assist made two guys happy.” – Wayne Gretzky
5. “Sports are a universal language.”
6. “It’s easy to get to the top but it’s really hard to stay at the top.”
7. “Consistency is really the price of admission for top producers.”
8. “Innovation really is the key.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Gopher Hockey by the Hockey Gopher” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/3tPr4aD
“The Code” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/33XIaIw
“America’s Coach” by Ross Bernstein: https://amzn.to/356uITf

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Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show it’s David Horsager, I have one of my


david_horsager: dearest friends on today, so there’s a lot we could say about you. but


david_horsager: first, please welcome Ross Bernstein.


ross_bernstein: Or see how are you? My friend Could to see her.


david_horsager: I’m doing great. great to see you. Virtually. we’re going to see each other


david_horsager: face to face again before long. but uh, just everybody knows.


david_horsager: Ross Bernstein is the best selling author of almost fifty to get the other


david_horsager: one written with you, So it’s fifty sports books including. I’ve got a few


david_horsager: them here if if you’re watching the video The Champions Code, raising


david_horsager: Stanley, her, Brooks, uh, America’s coach, and a whole lot more. I love Brett


david_horsager: Favre. I hate Brett Favre. Remember that, uh, anyway, we got some. We got some


david_horsager: good ones That got a a lot more of them on on my home library. But Um, he


david_horsager: has Keynodd, He’s a hall of fame speaker and has Keno conferences on seven


david_horsager: contents, Even an arttica, not many people have done that, and uh, you know,


david_horsager: he’s been interviewed all over the world. He’s been a part of the press.


david_horsager: He’s interviewed so many athletes were going to talk about. A few of those


david_horsager: from you know, Pat Summit to Gretsky to Tom, Rated today, and and others


david_horsager: you’ve interviewed. How many. How many pro athletes? I mean, How many people


david_horsager: have you interviewed and all this writing a books, and being a part of the


david_horsager: press and all that you’ve done studying champions


ross_bernstein: It’s thousands. I’ve been doing


david_horsager: Y.


ross_bernstein: this since I was twenty one years old.


david_horsager: Unbelievable and back then back when back just after you were the Uh, didn’t


david_horsager: quite make the the U M hockey team and became the Gofer.


ross_bernstein: That’s right. a giant smelly rodent to gold to the golfer.


david_horsager: All right.


david_horsager: Well, it’s great to have you on. Tell a couple more things about Ross


david_horsager: Bernstein and they, we’re going to dive in because you’ve got some great


david_horsager: things to share. But what? what are some things we should know about Ross?


ross_bernstein: Well, I’m a huge fan of Da for Dave Horsager. That that’s what else you


ross_bernstein: want to know. Like right there. That pretty much says everything right


david_horsager: Oh, my goodness.


ross_bernstein: you know, like you said I, the crazy story. My, my dream is by hockey at the


ross_bernstein: University of Minnesota


ross_bernstein: got got cut from the team. Became the mascot, Wrote a book about it called


ross_bernstein: Gopher Hockey by the Hockey Gofer and launched my career. I had two two big


ross_bernstein: brothers that had Ivy league, M B, A And and I aspired to be a a giant


ross_bernstein: rodent. So uh, mom and dad were so proud, but you know, I, I just uh, like


ross_bernstein: you, David. I, just, I kind of found my way doing something I love. We all


ross_bernstein: before we become become professional speakers. We all have a previous life,


ross_bernstein: and my previous life was writing and publishing books. and and uh, and now


ross_bernstein: like you, I just get to speak all over the place and and try and help


ross_bernstein: people. so I’m just I’m everyday sort of a new adventure. And and uh, I’m


ross_bernstein: just grateful for our friendship and I’m happy to be on visiting with you


ross_bernstein: and hopefully entertaining your, your legion of listeners and fans all over


ross_bernstein: the world.


david_horsager: well, I, I’m I’m grateful to have yon. you’ve written a load of books.


david_horsager: You’ve interviewed a load of champions. I, If I was going to say something


david_horsager: that I think is really interesting about what you’ve done is you’ve you


david_horsager: know? you built an amazing business yourself and and your family is, just


david_horsager: uh. It’s just so fun to see your marriage and your family, and just the way


david_horsager: you intentionally run life. and


ross_bernstein: Hm.


david_horsager: um, that’s it’s


david_horsager: just such a cool thing, but uh, but what? I? uh, I? I think something you


ross_bernstein: thank you, you, too.


david_horsager: share and I think you live it out is just all this wisdom of that you’ve


david_horsager: learned from interviewing champions and I think it’d be fun to jump right


david_horsager: in. I think you know some of the books you can see here. We’re going to put


david_horsager: them in the show. Now’s trust the Leader show Dot com. So you see at least


david_horsager: several of our favorites of Ross Bernstein’s books, But the code you wrote


david_horsager: this series called series called the Champions Code, And you talk about a


david_horsager: lot. I’ve seen you speak, and we’ve been on some of the same stages, But Um,


david_horsager: if you were going to take some of the takeaways, I’m going to talk about


david_horsager: some specific people in all, but just some key takeaways that jump to mind.


david_horsager: Uh, as far as the champions you’ve interviewed, where would you start


ross_bernstein: Hm. Well, my program that the Champions code. it’s really. It’s really about


ross_bernstein: winning with integrity. So I, I wrote this series of books. as you


ross_bernstein: mentioned. Uh, these books called the Code About the. Really. They’re about


ross_bernstein: the unwritten Unspoken rules and sports. So, in sports, as as you know,


ross_bernstein: because you were an all state wide receiver from Verndale high school,


ross_bernstein: Minnesota, and then you played at


david_horsager: nine man football?


ross_bernstein: Bethel Card. I’m just saying I’m just, and man, I’m just saying


david_horsager: Y. Yeah,


ross_bernstein: okay, Uh,


ross_bernstein: you know


david_horsager: I was all safe for linebacker, By the way, Don’t want to get too much


david_horsager: credit because somebody will think I’m fast of you, Saal, statewide


david_horsager: receiver.


ross_bernstein: well you, you know as an athlete that that, if you, if you break the rules,


ross_bernstein: there’s consequences. So I wrote the series of books about You know what


ross_bernstein: happens if you cheat or take short cuts, like in in hockey. If you you


ross_bernstein: cheat, it leads to fighting and in baseball, If you cheat, it leads to to


ross_bernstein: get drilled right. So so the program is really about winning the right way,


ross_bernstein: and I try and translate that to business. As as a journalist, I love


ross_bernstein: studying, you know what makes the great ones right, and then translating


ross_bernstein: that to great leadership and and customer experience,


ross_bernstein: and and dealing with with adversity, So for me that’s just kind of the angle


ross_bernstein: that I do, but I I love. I love studying all all kinds of different athletes


ross_bernstein: and coaches, then just figure out what’s unique about them.


david_horsager: Let’s take that. let’s what. Let’s talk about. a couple great ones and we


david_horsager: can go anywhere from here. But you did study the great one. He become a


david_horsager: friend of yours. He’s written forwards in your books, but the great one


david_horsager: Gretsky, The, you know, famous for


david_horsager: where where the puck’s going to be instead of where it is right now. But um,


david_horsager: you. you got to. you know. you’ve connected them intimately in some of this


david_horsager: work. What’s something you learned from Wayne Gretsky?


ross_bernstein: Well, I, I had a a full blown stage five man crush on him as a kid. I’m not


ross_bernstein: going to lie, you. I had posters of wane all of my bedroom walls, and as a


ross_bernstein: little kid I was, he was one of my heroes, and to get to know him later in


ross_bernstein: life was pretty cool. Um, you know, when I talk about Wayne in my program, I


ross_bernstein: don’t. I don’t talk about the obvious stuff, but I talk about how you know.


ross_bernstein: Wh, Wayne told me a great line one time about how you he. He’s the n h, ▁ls


ross_bernstein: all time leader in goals, and he’s the all time leader in assists, but he


ross_bernstein: had twice as many assistant goals, and when


david_horsager: Hm,


ross_bernstein: asked about that, he said that a goal made one guy happy, but an assist made


ross_bernstein: two guys happy. And I just love that and I love how it’s just in his d n a


ross_bernstein: to give and to serve. And you know whenne when wore the scene it, it was.


ross_bernstein: Uh. It was the the subject of one of my books about wearing this scene and


ross_bernstein: about what that means to be the captain about how to lead and to lead by


ross_bernstein: example. And that was really what what his emmo was all about, and I, so I,


ross_bernstein: I love you know, kind of studying. Um, the weird little idiosyncrasies about


ross_bernstein: about champions and about what makes you know being a champion isn’t


ross_bernstein: necessarily by winning championships, it’s just about the way you conduct


ross_bernstein: yourself, the way you, the way you do business, the way you treat people.


ross_bernstein: It’s about relationship building, so he’s just you know, he’s an amazing


ross_bernstein: human being and uh, you know he was an amazing hockey player, but he’s he’s


ross_bernstein: had equal success, you know, off the isolater in life as well, So it’s


ross_bernstein: someone I’ve been very proud to sort of get to know and I’ I’m still still


ross_bernstein: in awe of him.


david_horsager: I think you knowm. not trying to you know, Blow your horn so much, but it’s


david_horsager: just this is something. if people don’t know what. That everybody that knows


david_horsager: Ross Bernstein, he lives. generosity,


ross_bernstein: Hm. thank you.


david_horsager: I was yesterday. I took a look at the one of the B. One of the gifts you’ve


david_horsager: given us this massive, the biggest I’ve ever seen Scrabbleboard that we, we


david_horsager: had out and like, or the time you know, are invited to the Uh. you know,


david_horsager: many pe. you have c, e Os, and Steve wasnac your friend, and and many knows,


david_horsager: the Uh, one of the Um. Founders of Apple, and And, and you invite us to this


david_horsager: uh, amazing, sweet, uh event at the uh, um, I don’t even remember the game


david_horsager: be cause. I was so into being together


ross_bernstein: the W. A wild hockey game.


david_horsager: right. Oh yeah, wild hockey game.


ross_bernstein: Yeah, that was fun.


david_horsager: Okay, but I just I. I. There’s so many ways you live that out. This. That’s


ross_bernstein: Hm.


david_horsager: what I love about it is not just learning and writing about it, but you, Uh,


david_horsager: where you didn’t quite make the U. You live out all you’ve learned and all


david_horsager: this stuff I’m proud of that. I want to jump to somebody.


david_horsager: Youre one before she passed away. That got to interview at the time who was


david_horsager: the winningest


david_horsager: basketball coach


david_horsager: in the country and C.


david_horsager: Ncle a university, Tennessee Women’s Couch, Pat, Pat, Summ, What what? What


david_horsager: was that like? As you think back on that interview connecting with her were


david_horsager: she team you? We talk a lot as you know all about trust. How did she so


david_horsager: consistently build these high trust high performing teams?


ross_bernstein: Yeah, she was really an an amazing coach When I talk about Pat. I. I,


ross_bernstein: really, Um, it’s It’s a pretty cool vinet, But you know, when asked Pa about


ross_bernstein: her legacy she said she didn’t want to be remembered so much being a great


ross_bernstein: coach, but rather for being a great teacher and there’s a big difference.


ross_bernstein: You know. That’s how she was able to connect and really build trust with


ross_bernstein: with her with her students. Student athletes was by not necessarily Um.


ross_bernstein: Teaching you know, coaching them how to be better basket players, but have


ross_bernstein: you be better human beings, and as a result they were able to foster trust,


ross_bernstein: and you know for Pat, too, it wasn’t about recruiting the best players, is


ross_bernstein: about recruiting the right players and they really try and translate that to


ross_bernstein: business. As people think about their book of business as their clientele,


ross_bernstein: as they think about hiring and keeping young Gen, ▁ze, and millenniials to


ross_bernstein: to to create by, and you know old Pat was was um,


ross_bernstein: fire and brimstone likevince, Lombardy, she’d yell at youa screaming. Yeah,


ross_bernstein: but you know, as Pat got older and the kids got younger, she had to really


ross_bernstein: change her tune and and speak a new language. you know, social media texting


ross_bernstein: young people that A’s not about Um,


ross_bernstein: it’s not about the money, I, it. It’s more about culture and chemistry and


ross_bernstein: being a part of an organization where they feel valued and respected. So so


ross_bernstein: you know you’d still get that mile long stair if you screwed up, but then


ross_bernstein: always a big hug in praise like ham proudy you’ doing a great job and I’m


ross_bernstein: going to text you some Youtube videos and things you could work on so


ross_bernstein: constantly changing evolving as a leader. Um, but really you know it. it’


ross_bernstein: stuck with me, you know, and Pat said it wasn’t about the best players, but


ross_bernstein: the wreler. She said, You know, it’s if it was the best players, then the


ross_bernstein: Yankees would would win it every year, right be cause they


david_horsager: Mhmm.


ross_bernstein: have the best players they can afford. The Um, the top talent, and and and


ross_bernstein: uh, but it really comes down to chemistry and coaching, and these these


ross_bernstein: intangible qualities that were you know so important to Pat, so for her it


ross_bernstein: really came down to these other things, And that’s how she was really able


ross_bernstein: to Uh, recruit the right kids for her system and that you know she’d study


ross_bernstein: him, She, she, she studied, she recruited kids as freshmen, sophomore, not


ross_bernstein: juniors and seniors, And she’d you know she’d go to their. She recruited,


ross_bernstein: you know, coaches, kids. You know, coaches kids have a totally different Da.


ross_bernstein: She recruited farm kids like you, David, because they have incredible work


ross_bernstein: ethic, you know, Uh, dairy farm kids. you know they disciplined. you know,


ross_bernstein: cows don’t take days off as you know, And she loved recruiting those kids


ross_bernstein: and and uh, she studied them and she’d get to other parents and grandparents


ross_bernstein: and teachers and and their friends. You know, people say, people judge you


ross_bernstein: by the friends you keep. So she wanted get to know all these things, and you


ross_bernstein: know, over a lifetime of work she was able to achieve amazing success


ross_bernstein: through not a bunch of big things, but a bunch of little things.


david_horsager: I wonder what’s translable there to hiring? Because you know when we we


david_horsager: think of one of the biggest problems people have. it’s hiring right. and in


david_horsager: fact, a friend of mine, that’s a Ceo, said With all these assessments When


david_horsager: I’m hiring a senior leader for my company, I get it with everything we got


david_horsager: today. I get it right about fifty one percent of the time. It’s like when


david_horsager: you think about what, Because somehow she she hired right. In essence, you


david_horsager: know people that didn’t even get to get paid right, They just got to be a


david_horsager: part of the team, and from there she built a culture. You know what? else?


david_horsager: Is there anything we can take away? as far as


david_horsager: from how she in essence, courted or hired people into the team.


ross_bernstein: Well, it interestingly one of the things that I talk about Pat, is I talk


ross_bernstein: about how you know at this senior ceremony when these kids graduated and


ross_bernstein: they did by the way, ’cause Pat promised their parents that a lot of the


ross_bernstein: kids would get the Lady Val’s tattoo on their body at the senior ceremony


ross_bernstein: And then I equate that to a friend of ours, Chuck Runyon, the founder of


ross_bernstein: Anyim Fitness, Uh, who we’ve we’ve both worked at and I talk about how you


ross_bernstein: know any timee fitness that you know the largest fitness chain in the. World


ross_bernstein: now approaching five thousand franchise locations. How more than a third of


ross_bernstein: their franchisee Onerpters have the Antime Fitness Running Bandu logo


ross_bernstein: tattooed on their bicep or or calf? And you know just what? What are it? You


ross_bernstein: know? How many? How many C e Os. How many people have their corporate logo


ross_bernstein: tattooed in their body, And what that means? We talk about Rabbid fans. I


ross_bernstein: mean, you know we both love the Minnesota Vikings. I mean there, there are


ross_bernstein: Vikings fans who have Vikings tattoos right. But how many people would love


ross_bernstein: their company or love what they do so much to put it on their body forever.


ross_bernstein: So talk about you know, building trust, building relationships doing the


ross_bernstein: right things. It’s it’s those series of little things that I think, and you


ross_bernstein: know that’s that’s what I love to do is. I love to you know, translate


david_horsager: Mhmm,


ross_bernstein: things we can learn from sports. Which is is, which is my passion to


ross_bernstein: business, And I, because


david_horsager: Mhm.


ross_bernstein: I think it’s a universal language. Whether I’m talking, you know rugby and


ross_bernstein: new ▁zealand or cricket in South Africa. Uh people speak that language A, as


ross_bernstein: you know, because you go all over the world, So for me, I think it’s just


ross_bernstein: about connecting those dots. It’s it’s it’s really fascinating.


david_horsager: Well, let’s talk about another one that’s real big today,


david_horsager: Tom Brady is. Uh, you know, big deal


david_horsager: and he’s back to winning again And you know he. this. I mean old, many, you


david_horsager: say, and still performing what you know. What do you learn from how does he


david_horsager: keep performing? Bring at such a high level. I guess from what you know,


ross_bernstein: Well, ill tell you, I, I’ve never met a more competitive human being in my


ross_bernstein: entire life than Tom Brady. I mean that guy hates losing more than he loves


ross_bernstein: winning, and at forty four, which is pretty insane because these are like


ross_bernstein: dog years in in professional sports. the average professional athlete hass


ross_bernstein: less than two seasons. What he’s doing is is is incredible. But I’ll tell


ross_bernstein: you, the thing that’s interesting about Tom when I talk about Tom, is I talk


ross_bernstein: about consistency. I think Tom’s greatest asset might be his short term


ross_bernstein: memory. You know you throw an interception. Forget about it. have a bad


ross_bernstein: play. have a bad series, have a bad game. have a bad week. Forget about it.


ross_bernstein: That’s what separates the veterans from the rookies. Rookies obsess about


ross_bernstein: failing and they can’t get over and they keep thinking about it. The great


ross_bernstein: ones are able to process it. Learn from it. Move aside, and you know the


ross_bernstein: thing that I’ve learned about Tom. You know seven super bowls. He’s the


ross_bernstein: goat. No one else


david_horsager: Mhm.


ross_bernstein: has come close. Eleven conference championships. Here’s a guy who got bored


ross_bernstein: in New England took a new challenge because he needed needed another


ross_bernstein: challenge and went to Tampa Bay. a team that had made the playoffs in two


ross_bernstein: decades, changed the culture overnight, took less money in his own contract


ross_bernstein: to be able to afford some of his buddies, and they want a Super bowl And


ross_bernstein: it’s it’s unheard of. in a salary cap era. it will never happen again. He


ross_bernstein: may repeat this year because he’s just so committed. But what I’ve learned


ross_bernstein: about Tom and I’ve learned about sports in general


ross_bernstein: is that it’s easy to get to the top, but it’s really hard to stay at the


ross_bernstein: top. But that’s the essence of the dynasty mentality and that’s what Tom has


ross_bernstein: and that’s what great companies have. So you and I get to work for some of


ross_bernstein: the greatest brands in the world, and that’s what you see, These companies’s


ross_bernstein: iconic companies that have around for fifty years, a hundred years, a


ross_bernstein: hundred and fifty years. And you look at how consistency right


ross_bernstein: that? That’s what.


david_horsager: how did they stay consistent and be innovative? Because as


ross_bernstein: yeah,


david_horsager: you know, a lot of big ones died last year, right.


ross_bernstein: yeah,


david_horsager: So how? how do we?


david_horsager: So how? how do we?


david_horsager: in? In essence, how do they stay in? Um, Consistently innovative like an


david_horsager: Ibm. That’s been around ever. I think when I wrote about them was like seven


david_horsager: times, but now I think it’s like eleven major shifts that Ib. You know, but


david_horsager: most companies, I think all the companies written about in the you know good


david_horsager: Dege aren’t even around anymore performing very well. So how? what about


david_horsager: these? that Ha? what it take like to be both consistent and innovative


ross_bernstein: yeah, yeah, I mean, I think consistency is really the price of admission for


ross_bernstein: top producers Like we all work hard. We all smile in dial, and get in our


ross_bernstein: cars and solve other people’s problems to to be successful. But I think


ross_bernstein: innovation is really the key. and when I, when I talk about consistency, one


ross_bernstein: of the companies I love talking about is Levi Strauss, who haveve done a lot


ross_bernstein: of work with. You know they are. There’re a hundred and sixty year old


ross_bernstein: company that that literally invented blue jeans. They invented Denm because


ross_bernstein: the gold miners were ripping their pants, and to see how they’ve reinvented


ross_bernstein: themselves year after year and even the last couple of years with with with


ross_bernstein: global retail sales in the tank, they were up ten percent. It’s an iconic


ross_bernstein: brand that didn’t have the hubreist to say. Well, we’ve always done things


ross_bernstein: that way we invented jeanes. They just keep reinventing themselves and they


ross_bernstein: keep you know, they keep. uh, Just you know, whether it’s a a


ross_bernstein: women’s uh, Al line, or accessories or children’s or an online strategy.


ross_bernstein: Really, they, They even changed their whole brand to living, leave eyes


ross_bernstein: right. It’s and, and and getting influencers like Taylor Swift and Biancee


ross_bernstein: to to brag about them and creating these new mediums. So um, they’ve just,


ross_bernstein: they’ve just done things very differently and I I love studying great


ross_bernstein: companies that that are willing to to change things up and to really change.


ross_bernstein: And you know, I, I think for you and I, David. I mean it’s it’s always been


ross_bernstein: about change right, I mean,


ross_bernstein: when when you know people think of me in, you know my college buddies and


ross_bernstein: high school buddies think. Oh, when I see and they go, Ross. what are you


ross_bernstein: working on? What work you working on? That’s not my. That’s not my ideaal


ross_bernstein: anymore. Like that was my previous life, books. books, died, Borders is


ross_bernstein: gone, Beat Allton is gone. Walden Books is gone. Crown Books is gone, Barnes


ross_bernstein: Noble, recently acquired by a private equity group, whatever that means, but


ross_bernstein: I can assure you they’re selling more Carmel Mackados board games, Chat,


ross_bernstein: cheese, greeting cards and music than they do books. And now they’ve got


ross_bernstein: these hideous things called ebooks, Kendales, Nooks, They’re killing me. I


ross_bernstein: write twenty five dollar books, but the E version is seven bucks. I can’t


ross_bernstein: compete with that. I got to the same amount of work. I got a write and


ross_bernstein: edited market to publish it, promote it, but only make a fraction of the


ross_bernstein: profit. Is that fair? No, but that’s my reality, so I change. So books


ross_bernstein: became speeches. I’ve monetized my content Differently books became became


ross_bernstein: movies, done, some documentary projects. My hockey fighting book was turned


ross_bernstein: into a movie with an academy, a warwarding director, who to thunk books


ross_bernstein: became speeches. So now my book, wearing the C. If a client likes me, they


ross_bernstein: can bring it back for something else. So I’ve just cauht, you know, and and


ross_bernstein: for you and I, when covet hit weeat, we discovered this thing called ▁zoom.


ross_bernstein: Right. So it’s constantly the change, the evolution, So companies that


ross_bernstein: aren’t willing to do that Companies with huborist, To say Well, we own this


ross_bernstein: category As soon as something bad happens, they’re gone. So it it, it’s It’s


ross_bernstein: a fascinating concept to see who’s who’s the quickest to adapt early write a


ross_bernstein: lot of our colleagues as professional speakers. Um, didn’t want to adapt.


ross_bernstein: And and


david_horsager: Mhm?


ross_bernstein: they’re struggling. They’re suffering. They’re getting day jobs. So you know


ross_bernstein: that’s what I love about you horses that you’ve you know, you’ve you’ve


ross_bernstein: built this amazing brand. you’re constantly changing and adapting. I, you


ross_bernstein: know, Dave. For your listeners, David, that we, we’ve been friends for a


ross_bernstein: long time, and and I, you know you’re one of the guys that I, just we’ve.


ross_bernstein: You know, we were in a mastermind fifteen years ago and we were. You know,


ross_bernstein: we both started out near the bottom to see your medoric rise to how you’ve


ross_bernstein: built an incredible business. you know, ten, twelve, fifteen employees. at


ross_bernstein: your I bend your offices. They’re beautiful and the fact that you’ve built


ross_bernstein: this multi millionion dollar juggern


ross_bernstein: and you’ve got four beautiful kids and an amazing wife, and you’ve really


ross_bernstein: built a brand that’s true to your ideals and ideologies that are very


ross_bernstein: important to you. Your faith, your family, Um, you’ve just had incredible


ross_bernstein: success, David, and I’m so proud of you and I’m so proud to be your friend,


ross_bernstein: and you’re so generous. You’ve You’ve given so much to me so many referrals


ross_bernstein: and so much wisdom. And and uh, you’re just, you’re one of the guys who’s so


ross_bernstein: respected in our business. and youj I mean, fear listeners who don’t who


ross_bernstein: don’t know that about David. He’s just in a. A. He’s just an awesome human.


ross_bernstein: and uh you, you know you’re constantly changing and adapting and you know


ross_bernstein: whenever we talk it’s always. What are you doing what you know for? I?


david_horsager: We better cut this off where people are going to think I paid yourrself.


ross_bernstein: nah, well, it’s funny you. you know you’ve built this big big brand and


david_horsager: That’s up.


ross_bernstein: whenever we talk you always say man, I wish I was like you with nothing. you


ross_bernstein: know, I don’t have any employee.


david_horsager: No, I, I don’t say nothing.


ross_bernstein: I. this. this is my worldwide headquarters. There is my mom. Like to say, my


ross_bernstein: basement, right, this is. you’ve got this incr. You know you’re like. I wish


ross_bernstein: it was easy like you do, and I look at you and I go, man. I wish I had all


ross_bernstein: these fancy toys and all this stuff, but we’re both


david_horsager: Oh man.


ross_bernstein: doing it. It’s fun but that that’s the beauty business right.


david_horsager: Well,


ross_bernstein: There’s no one right way to do it.


david_horsager: what? what do you? What do you learn in these days? How are you staying? You


david_horsager: know you’re not when you’re writing books. You. I mean, it just makes you


david_horsager: stay fresh relevant Capable you? you’re You’re studying new people, your,


david_horsager: your um, interviewing people. you’re doing research. I mean I, and you know


david_horsager: that we’re into research here and do putting out this study every year. the


david_horsager: trust outlook, and you know, staying fresh. Always. What do you do yourself


david_horsager: to stay fresh these days? I? I, I mean, I know one of them is, you’re in a


david_horsager: lot of companies, so you just learned from that C. e. O. In that leader, Uh,


david_horsager: you travel a ton, boy, people could just travel. Uh, they learn a whole lot


david_horsager: as far as opening their eyes and minds, but there’ anything you’re doing


david_horsager: intentionally kind of stay kind of fresh and


ross_bernstein: Yeah,


david_horsager: relevant.


ross_bernstein: well, I, I tell you, The the, The beauty for me with research is is that I


ross_bernstein: love it. I


david_horsager: Mhm.


ross_bernstein: watch games every day every day, get to watch and read and study all the


ross_bernstein: websites and watch all the games and obscure


ross_bernstein: things and coaches. and you go on, you know, and you hear their interviews


ross_bernstein: and you’re constantly learning. How did that coach make adjustments? Why did


ross_bernstein: that team win? What? What was the back story? You know, why? what was the


ross_bernstein: motivation? What? Oh, it came from a year ago when they disrespected them


ross_bernstein: and did that. And I loved studying the game within the game at at a higher


ross_bernstein: level. Right that? that’s what I love is when you? really, it’s like when


ross_bernstein: you watch a game with a broadcaster like a famous B. they’re They’re not


ross_bernstein: watching the game. They’re sing at a higher level. When I watch games with


ross_bernstein: professional athletes, you know and we’re I, I’m friends with lot of them.


ross_bernstein: Um to watch them watch the game. It’s just an experience in itself because


ross_bernstein: they see such different things.


david_horsager: Mhm,


ross_bernstein: So you know, I’m always trying to add new content. new material trying to.


ross_bernstein: and, but you know, big thing from my, my brand in my business is I try and


ross_bernstein: take things that aren’t your business and making their business. So one of


ross_bernstein: the new things for research that I’ve been doing, Um, that I’m sharing with


ross_bernstein: my clients Now when I’m speaking is, Um, I’m doing a whole vnette on hotels.


ross_bernstein: I work a lot in the hotel hospitality industry like you do. but I’m talking


ross_bernstein: about the whole new category of millenniial hotels. You know, Hotels looked


ross_bernstein: into their crystal ball and they said you know ten years ago. Like whoa, you


ross_bernstein: know, for our future customers, these Genzze Millennials, they like air, B


ross_bernstein: and B, So there’s a whole new category Big brands, Mariott, Moxy, Radison,


ross_bernstein: Red Hilton, True, Hyac, Centr, Kurio, The Graduate and I take people inside


ross_bernstein: and I talk about the buildings. It’s all about sustainability. recycled


ross_bernstein: building materials. Um, I talk about. you know, the, the, the geothermal


ross_bernstein: heat pumps and the solar and the wind power, and the ▁l g B Tq, hiring


ross_bernstein: component, and the water catchment programs. Things very important to young


ross_bernstein: people that they listen to and I walk them through every piece you know from


ross_bernstein: the you know. When you check in, there’s an I paad. there’s you know. And


ross_bernstein: and they send you room Ke, to your phone, and then about the techn logy, and


ross_bernstein: and how these places are wired up. And then you come into the lobby and it’s


ross_bernstein: about this shared experience. Right, one side is old school Seggeesis, Atari


ross_bernstein: ping pong Fos, ball, but the other side’s new school drone racing eports


ross_bernstein: social media and talk about the food. It’s all locally sourced organically


ross_bernstein: grown. The cows and pigs are treated very humanely. the uh, um, non deirary


ross_bernstein: vegan non g, m o meetless mate. Of course, you know it’s all part of what


ross_bernstein: young people want, but young people don’t have a lot of money, so there’s a


ross_bernstein: A. a grab and go section. Everything’s maybe a dollar. But then if you get


ross_bernstein: hungry later, you can text the robo butler. She’ll drive it up to your room.


ross_bernstein: It’s very, very instigramable. You can have to the roof where they’ve got.


ross_bernstein: You know an api further for honey, and they’ve got you know, Uh, young


ross_bernstein: people like food trucks, so they put a food truck on the roof. A. and then


ross_bernstein: I’m sure you brought your dog as young people and have children. They have


ross_bernstein: animals. They have a full service dog room service menu. So I talk about all


ross_bernstein: these things right, and the local music and and the spin and vinyl and the


ross_bernstein: artwork. It’s all local, but it’s about how they’re reinventing themselves,


ross_bernstein: And then I ask people, the hotel industry answered the bell. This isn’t the


ross_bernstein: future. They’ve looked into the crystal ball, and this is how they’re


ross_bernstein: dealing with it. But what are you doing? How is your business? How are your


ross_bernstein: listeners saying? How are people going to be buying mortgages and and


ross_bernstein: insurance, and and whatever wdget or gadget that you’re selling in five


ross_bernstein: years and ten years as these Genz progress and there become the into into


ross_bernstein: the middle management right, so,


david_horsager: Mhm,


ross_bernstein: I think we’re always researching and and doing things so. even though I’m in


ross_bernstein: sports, I’m always studying other industries and trying to relate that back.


david_horsager: And I’ve seen that in that you’ve always that every client you work for you


david_horsager: really research them to customize two them. right. So what about your?


ross_bernstein: I try. I, I like you. I try. it’s hard, but I try.


david_horsager: Yeah, what’s your business? Like, what about you? What about your? You know


david_horsager: you’, you’re doing a lot of speaking. We do. I, I tend to speak a lot out of


david_horsager: the institute. We do you all these other things, consulting and measuring,


david_horsager: but we made a major piff pivot in the bigger part of the company for us. as


david_horsager: far as the tech platform we built, and all that kind of stuff to serve


david_horsager: people. Well, what? what do you think? The future for you? You know, even


david_horsager: just like whether speaking or sharing your content, Anything different you


david_horsager: are going to be doing in five years.


ross_bernstein: well y well, you know it’s interesting because you know Um,


ross_bernstein: Dave and I in a in a, in a group of a organization we belong to called the


ross_bernstein: National speakers Association And we’re a. We’re a top producer group. And


ross_bernstein: and it’s interesting, ’cause this year in Las Vegas, I was asked to be a


ross_bernstein: presenter to talk about my business model because it’s so weird and you know


ross_bernstein: one thing I’m doing is I’m not doing a lot of the things like I’m


david_horsager: Yeah,


ross_bernstein: blazed or focused. I’ I’m a Knote speaker, So I do about a hundred and


ross_bernstein: twenty events per year, But like it’s funny, the guy who contrasted me, our


ross_bernstein: friend, Rural Workmanen, who


david_horsager: yeah,


ross_bernstein: we both love. Um, I took, he took a picture of one of my slides and I said,


ross_bernstein: these are all the things I don’t do like I don’t consult. I don’t coach. I


ross_bernstein: don’t train the trainer. I don’t have an ▁l s learning management system. I


ross_bernstein: don’t I don’t have a list. I don’t do social media, I don’t have a weekly


ross_bernstein: video series. I don’t blog, I don’t loog, I don’t podcast, I don’t. I don’t


ross_bernstein: do any of that stuff, And Vrl took a picture and said and put it in his


ross_bernstein: program. He said these are all the things I do. so so you know there’s


ross_bernstein: there’s so many bright sparkling squirrel things we want to do, and


ross_bernstein: sometimes I think saying no to things and just focusing on what you’re


ross_bernstein: really good at is Uh, for me,


david_horsager: it.


ross_bernstein: I guess that’s worked. I mean, certainly I pivoted to the point where I’ve I


ross_bernstein: created a an in home studio which I had to do during coved. but other than


ross_bernstein: that man, I’m just I’m grinding. I’m going and I’m I’m investing in in me


ross_bernstein: where I’m you know, going to N. S a events to learn and network? I, I have


ross_bernstein: mastermind groups. You know, my, my greatest mastermind might be with you


ross_bernstein: ’cause we don’t really have mass. I, We just call each other all the time


ross_bernstein: and we’re in our cars and we say. What do you do, a man? How’s it going?


ross_bernstein: What? how can I help you? What? what? What’s going on in your world? How’s


ross_bernstein: your family? And that’s what I love. Just kind of old school right, picking


ross_bernstein: up the phone and and just learning. And and I? So sometimes it’s just not


ross_bernstein: any huge thing. It’s just a bunch of little things.


david_horsager: well, let’s let’s take a quick pivot here to you. You know a lot of the


david_horsager: leaders, especially those that I respect on the platform are leading


david_horsager: themselves well in some way, none ofectly, but we actually care about


david_horsager: whether it’s faith, family or fitness. What are some things you’ doing to


david_horsager: lead yourself? While I know you just ran another marathon. How many


david_horsager: marathons is that?


ross_bernstein: Ten,


ross_bernstein: and I haven’t


david_horsager: Well,


ross_bernstein: won any of them. I’ve come


david_horsager: you’re a loser.


ross_bernstein: right. I got the Te shirt.


david_horsager: you. you’re a loser of marathons.


ross_bernstein: I know.


david_horsager: So what? what? Uh? what? What do you do in daily? What kind of routines do


david_horsager: you have, whether it’s doing this research or health wise? I know your


david_horsager: marriage is important. To what? What are you doing? As Far as some


ross_bernstein: Yeah, thanks. no. I. I appreciate you reaching out. Um, you know, obviously


david_horsager: consistent things


ross_bernstein: running exercising trying to eat right, I know you, you know, got healthy,


ross_bernstein: really healthy several years ago and you’ve kept that weight off and you’ve


ross_bernstein: really made a commitment to yourself. And and it’s hard because you make


ross_bernstein: sacrifices right. and it’s hard because we’re on the road all the time and


ross_bernstein: we people aren’t going to pity us for our first world problems, as they say,


ross_bernstein: But it is hard you go from airplanes to hotels to conference rooms and it’s


ross_bernstein: just a. A. A. A


david_horsager: banquets.


ross_bernstein: craziness of food and drinks and things, so you have to make a lot of tough


ross_bernstein: choices, So that’s nice. One thing is nice is you know, Sarah, my wife. Uh,


ross_bernstein: we travel together, so we’re on the road together, so we live on the road


ross_bernstein: two three weeks at a time and we love it. But so we try and hike and bike


ross_bernstein: and run and make conscious decisions to eat healthier, and we try and look


ross_bernstein: at stuff. Look, hey, what are we going to do? What’s our game plan right? So


ross_bernstein: you just doing that I think is important, but you know, like like


ross_bernstein: accountability. Just you’re making calls. You’re you’re trying to plan.


ross_bernstein: You’re trying to prepare. and Y, you’re not perfect. but you know it’s just


ross_bernstein: we’ve all got challenges. but I, I just try and grind away like you do. And


ross_bernstein: it’s hard we live in Minnesota, where you know we’re entering a really


ross_bernstein: difficult phase like it’s it come January, February, it’s hard to live in


ross_bernstein: Minnesota and be healthy. You’re on the treadmill. You’ not outside, you’re


ross_bernstein: It’s dark at four o’clock Y. you know you. it’s just it’s not


david_horsager: What do you?


ross_bernstein: an excuse. It’s just hard so you just got to make better choices.


ross_bernstein: an excuse. It’s just hard so you just got to make better choices.


david_horsager: How long have you been like? I remember when we ran together in San Diego


david_horsager: years ago, and and with in the same day you ran, we ran along the water. You


david_horsager: you you brought to your hotel room? I think a twelve pack of diet, uh,


david_horsager: Doctor pepper. You know to go with your run right so, but now you haven’t


david_horsager: had a diet Doctor pepper for three years. What do you? What do you?


ross_bernstein: Yeah, this is my new addiction. I, I


david_horsager: There? You go?


ross_bernstein: drink sparkling water right.


david_horsager: sparkling water with nothing in it. Any other habits like that that you’ve


david_horsager: broken or kept new. like I do this. I don’t drink a Doctor pepper. I do. I


david_horsager: say yes to this, and I say no to that. Anything kind of daily, especially on


david_horsager: you know, flights and traveling and you know,


ross_bernstein: It’s hard like you on flights. I’m I’m not a real big drinker, so that’s not


ross_bernstein: a real big issue for me, but I try. like my. My. My drink of choice on


ross_bernstein: flights is um,


ross_bernstein: sparkling water with some cranberry juice and a line, So that’s what I’ll


ross_bernstein: get like on at Sky lounges and and stuff. And what? In another thing you


ross_bernstein: know, when I get when I fly and I get to my destination. I’ll have the Uber


ross_bernstein: driver or whoever stop at a convenience store. I try to map it out so that I


ross_bernstein: can run in and grab some bananas or a twelve pack of sparkling water, so


ross_bernstein: that I’m not making poor choices. You know what I mean. It’s just it’s hard.


ross_bernstein: like all these trade shows. it’s like halleen, you walk. They got candy all


ross_bernstein: over and you know you just you want to just grab stuff. So it it’s hard and


ross_bernstein: I try and make. I try and schedule times to go run,


ross_bernstein: or, or you know, or go hiking or playing hockey and or or golfing. I mean,


ross_bernstein: I, I just try and do stuff, but it, I don’t know. how about you, Have you?


ross_bernstein: have you? have you made other


david_horsager: you know,


ross_bernstein: things like that?


david_horsager: I. I. I, you know, as you know, I never. I. I almost never didn drink a


david_horsager: clorie. I for six months I didn’t


ross_bernstein: Yeah,


david_horsager: drink a clorie. I never drink a clorie on the plane, Um, I, but I do you


david_horsager: know I, I’ll have a uh, some people might say that’s bad for you. It’s got a


david_horsager: spartan or aspirtin or whatever. In in fresco, I’ll have a fresco because it


david_horsager: does do my sweitet like my sweet tooth, but it has no calories so


ross_bernstein: yeah,


david_horsager: but that was a big jump from Coke right back when I had would drink a a Coke


david_horsager: or die cookke.


ross_bernstein: I see, I don’t see you drink coffee. I don’t get any caffeine. People think


ross_bernstein: I’m


david_horsager: Yeah, it’s good. good Nu.


ross_bernstein: wired on caffeine, but the reality is I don’t get any caffeine at all, so


ross_bernstein: it’s it’s hard to sort of you know, but your body chemry.


david_horsager: I just read an actor. A. He was in the uh, Oh, who is it? Wall Street


david_horsager: Journal? Um, Last week, this actor had stopped caffeine seven years ago and


david_horsager: he just doesn’t regret it at all and it’s just a. It was a


ross_bernstein: Yeah,


david_horsager: a cool sort. Oh, everybody would know his name. but anyway, Um,


ross_bernstein: I mean my, my, too. my, too.


david_horsager: so there there there. I also work out. I work out better on the road than I


david_horsager: do at home,


ross_bernstein: Oh, that’s good.


david_horsager: so I do not by habit. One thing I’d really try to do. I, I’m not in my hotel


david_horsager: room. I, I use it as a place to sleep so I’m either working with clients,


ross_bernstein: Yeah, that’smart


david_horsager: orcause. I think you just got a bed. That. what do you get? You know? You


david_horsager: Kind of so and I don’t watch T. V as a habit. I don’t you know C. Somebody


david_horsager: sing. So I, basically, if I, i, um, uh, you know, not watching T. V and


david_horsager: napping the hotel room that that ups. So I’m either doing a client thing or


david_horsager: working out.


ross_bernstein: Yeah, that’s great.


david_horsager: so I’ll do. I’ll go work. I’ll have some of my longest workouts now. Usually


david_horsager: like you, I’m in and out in and out. Sometimes I might be in the library or


david_horsager: a library, just with Phil Jones out in New York and the hotel at an amazing


david_horsager: library. I just love that so inspiring, so I stopp. I worked there for a few


david_horsager: hours.


ross_bernstein: I. I saw Phil was going to be speaking at your big, uh, trust


david_horsager: Mhm,


ross_bernstein: Edge Leadership conference, and uh, I was out a couple months ago And and


ross_bernstein: Sara and I took Phil and his wife out to lunch. We had a picnic in Central


ross_bernstein: Park and


david_horsager: Yeah, oh, wow.


ross_bernstein: uh, she said, So he’s a. He’s a rocker and that guy’s like twelve years old.


ross_bernstein: It’s unbelievable what that guy’s doing.


david_horsager: I. I. we’re going to give him this episode to put. Tell it show his kids


david_horsager: right, Uh, no, he’s he. He’s great. so he’s a M. One of my international


david_horsager: contingencies being from the U. K. right, so


ross_bernstein: Yeah,


david_horsager: um, anyway, No, it’s pretty fun. We get the Sen sent, a majority leader from


david_horsager: the Republic of Kenya, come and, and we got some really really great folks


ross_bernstein: Wow, that’s cool. Youus to seeing out that’s grown is mind bodling Kudo’s


david_horsager: coming to the trusted leader’s summit.


ross_bernstein: brother. That’s amazing.


david_horsager: Y, let everybody know I’m going to put a plug right now. Trust the Leaders


david_horsager: summit Dot Com. It’s


ross_bernstein: Yeah,


david_horsager: going to be an amazing leadership summit if you care about driving high


david_horsager: performance with trust,


david_horsager: Be there anyway. So


ross_bernstein: and I’m going to throw this in. I believe Dave. you’ll be giving everyone


ross_bernstein: who attends a cannedhm or an assortment of candhms, as as an added bonus


ross_bernstein: gift. Just sit it right now. Make it real.


david_horsager: right there, along with their test, my team months that said, Let’s give


david_horsager: away a test, love or something, but I don’t know. anyway. Uh, just because


david_horsager: it starts with tea like trust, but let’s boy. this is this. This one has


david_horsager: gone all over the grid, so


david_horsager: let’s uh. Any favorite advice you would give before I? I leave with the with


david_horsager: my favorite question of all


ross_bernstein: you know I, I’m not a big wisdom guy. Just you know, work hard, treat people


ross_bernstein: right and good things happen. I’m a believer in karma right. Just


david_horsager: generosity.


ross_bernstein: don’t charge for stuff. Give it away, and I believe if if you do good in the


ross_bernstein: world, it’s going to come back to you. I really believe in that


david_horsager: On that note, Have Ross, He’ll do it all for free. free, free free. He just


david_horsager: set it here.


david_horsager: Hey, uh, where can we find out about Ross Bernstein Ross Bernstein Dot com.


david_horsager: Where’s the number one place to find out about you?


ross_bernstein: you just said it. I’m not shilling anything. I’m not hawking anything. I’m


ross_bernstein: not a social media guy. I just hey, I’m I’m un linkn, So if you want a


ross_bernstein: Linkol Linkol, and let’s linol linoln, that’s good.


david_horsager: Okay and Ross Bernstein Dot com, And you’ll find out about his speaking in


david_horsager: books and and all the other things he does?


david_horsager: Hey, this is better treat Ross. Thanks so much for being out here. It’s the


david_horsager: trust the Leader show. As you know, Last question, Who is a leader you trust


david_horsager: And why?


ross_bernstein: Uh, well, I’m going to go back to Uh, one of my heroes, her, Brooks, Uh,


ross_bernstein: I’m the president of the Herboks foundation. Yeah, I’ve written a couple of


ross_bernstein: books about Herbiy and he was just a real hero. mentor, min. I him as a ten


ross_bernstein: year old kidid his hockey camp in nineteen eighty, after watching the


ross_bernstein: Miracle Ice, where I won the most improved award for the guy who sucks the


ross_bernstein: most,


ross_bernstein: but we became friends later in life and he asked me to write his book and I


ross_bernstein: got to work on it with him and was golfing within the morning. He was killed


ross_bernstein: in the car accident, so it’s a big honor for me to be able to uh, keep his


ross_bernstein: legacy alive and share his story, But uh, I really trusted her Be he was a a


ross_bernstein: hero, a mentor. Um, and I think you know her her. It’s interesting her. Herb


ross_bernstein: surrounded himself with people that he felt were smarter than him, and uh,


ross_bernstein: he, he, he, uh, he. just, really, If if he wanted to learn something, he


ross_bernstein: would just surround himself the people that he had admired and respected and


ross_bernstein: he would learn. And as famous as a guy he was, he just was constantly


ross_bernstein: learning and and changing and adapting, And and I could go on and on about


ross_bernstein: herbiy, But he was the guy I really looked up to and I’m feeling very proud


ross_bernstein: to keep his legacy alive through our charitable foundation where we’ve


ross_bernstein: raised millions to help kids. and and uh, that’s that’s uh, something I’m


ross_bernstein: very proud of,


david_horsager: awesome Her Brooks. One of his books right here that Ross wrote, America’s


david_horsager: Coach has showed it in the camera, But if you’re just listening, it’s called


david_horsager: America’s Coach by Ross Bernstein, and forwards from some of the folks on


david_horsager: the Miracle Miranized team Nineteen Eighty Gold medal team, So Ross, it has


david_horsager: been a treat. This has been the trust leaders Show everybody until next


david_horsager: time. Stay trusted.

Ep. 65: Juliet Funt on How To Conquer Busyness And Do Your Best Work

In this episode, David sits down with Juliet Funt, Author, Speaker, and Advisor To The Fortune 500, to discuss how to conquer busyness and do your best work.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Juliet’s Bio:
A regular feature in top global media outlets, including Forbes and Fast Company, Juliet Funt is a renowned keynote speaker and tough-love advisor to the Fortune 500. As the founder and CEO of the boutique efficiency firm Juliet Funt Group, she is an evangelist for freeing the potential of companies by unburdening their talent from busywork. Juliet’s warm, relatable manner and actionable content earned her one of the highest ratings in the largest speaking event in the world, and she has worked with Spotify, National Geographic, Anthem, Vans, Abbott, Costco, Pepsi, Nike, Wells Fargo, Sephora, Sysco, and ESPN. You can follow her and access numerous resources at JuiletFunt.com.

Juliet’s Links:
Website: https://www.julietfunt.com/
“A Minute To Think” by Juliet Funt: https://amzn.to/3toq8Km
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julietfunt
Twitter: https://twitter.com/thejulietfunt

Key Quotes:
1. “Space is where strategy occurs.”
2. “Make sure you have a minute to think between opening your eyes and getting out of bed.”
3. “Never let the colors touch on your meeting calendar.”
4. “When we have the right medium for the right message we work far faster and far easier.”
5. “Trap yourself in a promise.”
6. “The interstitial use of space can be incredibly profitable and beneficial.”
7. “Fiction is one of the very necessary food groups of a sane life.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“A Minute To Think” by Juliet Funt: https://amzn.to/3toq8Km
“The Wim Hof Method” by Wim Hof: https://amzn.to/3I3YcPW
“At Your Best” by Carey Nieuwhof: https://amzn.to/3FuD7wk
“The Prince of Tides” by Pat Conroy: https://amzn.to/3Id1nFf

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a special authentic guest she’s in New Zealand today welcome to the show Juliet Funt.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thank you so much for having me.


David Horsager: Oh, this is gonna be great and people are going to learn so much you’re gonna have takeaways, but I want to just tell just a little bit about you.


David Horsager: She is Juliet is CEO of the Juliet front group she has spoken around the world she’s known as the tough love advisor to fortune 500 companies she’s worked with everything from.


David Horsager: costco to Pepsi to Nike to wells fargo to national geographic and espn and way more, and you know i’m excited she’s an author of a fantastic new book we’re going to talk about it, but you know, one more time Thank you so much for being here, I can’t wait to get into this together.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thanks it’s gonna be awesome.


David Horsager: Well before we get into all that you’ve done, what are you doing right now, what are you thinking about these days.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I that’s my favorite question, right now, because we are doing the best new way of working in.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I can’t stop talking about it so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For our company, we have decided to be the year of know new things.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we are doing nothing new were creating know new products, we are building new new partnerships, we are finessing know new markets, we are hiring no new teams.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because the last 18 months we just been we just have built so much, and we have all this wonderful stuff and we want to spread it in the world, before we build anything new, and I have to tell you that first we did this, we said Okay, this is a good idea.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then the X to see of this idea has built every single time I say a year, a year all we’re going to do is make the things we already have.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little bit better get them out a little further relax and and I feel like it’s turning into a template I just have to discipline myself that we don’t decide that 2023 needs to be the second year of no new thing.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So awesome stay the way you are right.


David Horsager: yeah oh that’s fun well I love it, I think we should dig right in I have so many things I want to ask you.


David Horsager: And we’ve even talked about offline personally we’re both entrepreneurs, we both lead our teams and companies and we try to.


David Horsager: make an impact in the world, but let’s let’s jump in a little bit to your new book because it’s really cool it’s called a minute to think people can get it anywhere we’ll put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com and everywhere, you can find Juliet.


David Horsager: But let’s talk about this idea to start with about you know you talk about space and oxygen to fuel the fire tell us about it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s the foundational metaphor of the book and of everything that we do so, the idea is if you’re building a fire.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You need the right ingredients it’s clear that you need something drying crumbly newspaper pine needles, you have to have good wood i’ve learned softwood to catch quick and hardwood to burn long is the perfect combination.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But there is an ingredient that if missed will absolutely sabotage every effort that you make to turn a spark into a beautiful blaze, and that is, you must add space.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There must be oxygenate eating passages in between those materials for the feeding of the fire to occur and.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The truth is that this is exactly the same for us and our minds and creativity and ideas and work, we need space around them.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For that oxygen eating power to infuse the spark and make it into a blaze, but it is what we forget it is what we’re chronically missing and, in my opinion that space is the most endangered element now of modern work.


David Horsager: that’s so interesting in the first book my first book trust edge, I wrote about and really what this is inspired by my wife give full credit, but we talked about how music is nothing without the rest.


David Horsager: Right it doesn’t sound beautiful you if you just had all the sounds of it kind of just be noise.


David Horsager: But the rest makes it beautiful and you know we talked about how people are even after this or in the process of of the change of the pandemic, people are like ready to get out ready to get out and not even pausing to think, but what did I learn that I could think about a head, you know.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For the future, I think a pause.


David Horsager: Even macro would be valuable, but let’s talk about this, because you know you’ve been challenged plenty of times and I know you’re tough and can handle it.


David Horsager: You got it.


David Horsager: you’ve got the CEO sitting there saying yes, but I need my people to work more I need to, we need to get more done, we need we had quarterly earnings, we got this is you got it that issue, what do you mean you’re going to come in and tell my people, we need more space.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The misconception of white space actually one of the there’s about three main misconceptions of this open time at work that’s called white space, the interstitial interlaced beautiful thoughtful time and one of the biggest misconceptions is it, it is only for rest.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think that space is only for rest, if you think that everyone’s just.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: drooling with their you know staring out a window recuperating, then I can understand as a leader, where you wouldn’t want that to be the dominant usage of space within the work day.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It is absolutely critical when 52% of people are burnt out and when we have so much shame around rest and refueling We absolutely need some of it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the truth is it’s only 25% one quarter of the way that smart people use space at work.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Space is also where strategy occurs it’s where innovation, creativity blossom from inception to true idea it’s where.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: leaders can be objective and step back and look from a distance at something that they’re about to execute and see if it has validity so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you do understand that space is also what facilitates thinking and the thinking is time well spent.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You begin to disconnect from that all isn’t this just a soft skill soft thing that my people don’t need misconception, because without it your ideas your strategy your planning are all threatened because they’re going to be thin and unconsidered.


David Horsager: So let’s before I get into a tip with that, how do I tell if i’m burnt out, you said 52% of people are how, how do I even know if my people are burned out.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If Well, yes, two different questions you said how do I know if i’m burnt out and how do I know if my people are burned down so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The question of Am I burnt out personally individually, is an interesting one, because we spent a lot of time trying to decide if the label formally should stick to us or not.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But to me it doesn’t matter if you have crossed the invisible line between wicked fried and technically burnt it doesn’t matter if you are burned, what matters is that.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re even asking the question, I wonder if i’m burnt out it’s kind of like I wonder if i’m an alcoholic I want you know.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s something that is stimulating some pain some awareness some objectivity about your own day that is stimulating the question.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is sufficient, it means you’re fried you’re exhausted, you probably used adrenaline and courage to push past levels of.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You know earnest work that would have been sufficient a long time ago, so if you are feeling that, then there are things that you can do, and we can go into those organizationally if my people are burnt out that’s a different question.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And i’m sure you’ve heard of the term skip level meeting, where the big boss skips their direct reports, and then has a meeting with the direct reports direct reports that’s called a skip Level Meeting.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But we like skip levels meetings plural, I would like the big boss to go have lunch with people five rungs down in the organization or have a virtual meeting, if you can’t and say just tell me.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What does it feel like what’s driving you crazy, what are you pretending is okay that’s really completely not okay.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Are you thinking of leaving, why are you thinking of leaving the great resignation we’re only seeing people from their backsides as they’re leaving we got to get ahead of that so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The the idea of leaders, using the new intimacy of coven this way that we’ve all become more real with each other.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: To go in there and say i’m going to make a vulnerable admission here’s where i’m struggling here’s where i’m confused here’s where it’s been hard for me, what about you, what about you and opening that doorway that’s, the only way you’re ever going to know.


David Horsager: that’s brilliant What about how, how are you doing this like Look how do you keep the white space you’re running a company you’re putting out some amazing work you’re.


David Horsager: you’re running you’ve got your family you get your life you’re traveling you’re in New Zealand you’re back in the US in a month, I mean what, how do you, maybe even just jumping into some tips and takeaways that we can all use, but how do you do it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the most important piece of white space for me is the very first thing in the morning and everybody can just start here, this is the easiest way to start make sure you have a minute to think between opening your eyes and getting out of bed.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s such a simple and beautiful interval to just pause and use what we call a strategic pause.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What kind of days is going to be, what do I need to shake off from yesterday, or from a bad dream what anxiety is just waking up right with me because it’s been such a difficult time that I need to take a breath and let go and how do I want to show up today.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then maybe another SIP at your desk and then maybe through the course of the day, you take advantage of forced white space that is thrown upon you, maybe that rainbow spinning ball can be your friend, instead of your enemy or you’re waiting in line.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Instead of reaching for the phone start realizing that there are a lot of times, where we’re gifted space.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we’re waiting or we’re thinking and if we don’t pick up that phone to fill it spaces ours for the taking now in terms of a specific tool this all is training wheels that i’ve just.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: described to you to get you to the basic starter tool, called the wedge.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the wedge for most of your audio listeners are not going to see me i’m making a triangle upward with my fingers and i’m pointing upward with this wedge, I want you to imagine.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little wedge of open time unscheduled fluid open time inserted in between two activities that previously would have been connected.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this is to open up things that would have been touching between a meeting in a meeting between getting a bad email and responding quickly.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Between Oh, I have an idea and i’m going to execute on that idea just little wedges inserted an opening and what happens is we begin to have this.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interstitial space, not the big scary 30 minute executive block of white space one hour executive block of totally unattainable white space three seconds eight seconds a minute and a half five minutes and now.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There starts to be a little bit of oxygen in the system and that’s where we begin.


David Horsager: I remember you speaking when I was listening to you at one point at least even kind of making the recommendation I think this was more recently, because, with all the zoom meetings even saying something about between zoom meetings you recommend 10 minutes is that right.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well there’s a card no rule and then you can design a custom application of it so here’s the cardinal rule.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Never let the colors touch on your meeting calendar, I want to see a nice stripy calendar from this day forward for every single one of your listeners if it’s 510 15 minutes, whatever it is, when the colors don’t touch the day can have some oxygenation.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In and as you’re going back to the office if you’re used to top of the hour to top of the hour.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: you’re now you’re going to have to move to a different room you’ve we’ve forgotten how to you know how that we’re not going to be clicking on and off, so we we start with those stripes and then, if you like, we can break down what occurs inside.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Each stripe to really utilize it properly, should we go there.


David Horsager: let’s do it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Okay, because it’s very important when you have a stripe of white space, it is not intended to just you know go on tick tock that’s not the point of the time.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The point of the time is to do three things that really, really start to change the nature of this maniacal workplace you look backward.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You look within and you look forward so in a typical slice of white let’s say we’re going to do 10 minutes.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about the first three minutes should be looking back, who did I just talked to in the last meeting Do I need to make a note enter something send a calendar invite or do I just need to think.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about how did that really go what could I have done a little bit better with David.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Then look within time to check into the human being, am I hungry Do I need to close my eyes for 30 seconds I do, I have to get ahead of a bio break before the next meeting.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we look forward, the most important part for business and sales and building relationships, who am I about to sit with.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What human being is going to bop into that waiting room in three to four minutes.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Who do I need to be for them, because we all have different aspects different colors of our personality that we bring to light, with different people more casual more serious more data filled.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then, what do they need, what do they want and how can I serve them, and so, when you do that look back look within and look forward wow do you show up as a different human being to that next meeting.


David Horsager: About a way to be more present wow I love it so any any other tips on meetings, I want to ask you about that you know.


David Horsager: i’ve heard you speak and seeing some of your writing on to big doors for people I think listening, and these are getting into the weeds here we can talk to so many things to Juliet should we get we’ve got we need like five episodes but but.


David Horsager: Face meetings and emails are our thorns for a lot of the people right so let’s let’s talk a little bit more is there anything else with meetings that we should think about as far as creating healthy white space or better meetings.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So much yeah we could do about five let’s let’s think about this guy I met named Devon Devon is a senior executive he’s a definite big shot at a large company told me the story when we were writing the book he said.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was sitting in a meeting sequence large accounting firm.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For meetings in the course of a day that we’re all the same presentation, they were these upward approval cycles, where you convince the wrong, and then the next rung in the next right next.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He only needed to be in the last meeting he’s the big shot, but they begged him to give the facetime of you know just sitting in the other ones, and by the fourth meeting he was reciting the deck he was mouthing the words he knew this content so well.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There was no tactical reason for him to sit in any of those other meetings, he knew he was wasting his time sitting in those other meetings, he was sneaking peaks in his phone trying to not be bored.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But even with his power and he even with his authority it never even occurred to him to opt out.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think about the concept of opting out if Devon can’t do it, I promise you most of people sitting at their desk without that kind of agency can’t do it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we have an entire culture of people who never even think about tiptoeing into the world of I don’t think i’ll be adding value at this meeting i’d like to decline.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, if you’re going to have the colors not touching as a beginning, we also want to have some places where there are no meeting, so we can think and strategize and right and be creative and go deeper and build and in order for that to happen, there has to be.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Control at two junctures, we have to be able to control, who we invite and we have to be able to control what we accept and for most people it’s the second one, I mentioned that is the scariest.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: opting out is very intimidating but it’s an absolute necessity in the world of work that we’re in, and so the safest way to get used to it is to find what I call a nobody.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: This is a power that you say i’m thinking of saying no to this thing can I talk through the way that i’m going to say no to see if it sounds good, to you, does it sound authoritative or high maintenance or.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or receivable to the person that i’m about to say do, and you can practice saying no to meetings you can even practice saying no to projects are certain client demands.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we need this kind of scaffolding support because we’re in a culture of yes we’re in a culture of I win points by being the most miserable in some ways, you know the Olympics of pain that we’re all showing off.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, learning how to opt out, and then having the support of a nobody or two really important techniques.


David Horsager: The Olympics of pain.


David Horsager: Showing off it’s.


David Horsager: Totally true we don’t need to get medals in that.


David Horsager: i’ve often said, the most difficult word for the most important word for leaders is not yes, as many think it is actually know the ability to say no, creates a space for the best right so saying no to good saying no to this say no.


David Horsager: But I can tell you, even as you say it i’m thinking juliet’s talking to me.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well, you asked how.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh sorry go ahead.


David Horsager: No, I just have an issue myself saying an owner right to certain things.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we talked I was just that was a when I was gonna say is We talked to the beginning about our keynote schedules and you said something like I do 100 keynotes and I.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And, and you, and I would do one I try, for one, a month is my goal if I can but.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Everybody has it’s probably one of the ways that I do protect white space, you asked me how I protect mine is I think my boundaries have gotten really, really strong.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I definitely have my weak or spots my tech addicted nature pulls me too quickly into my technology in those in those moments.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it once you start saying no and once you start seeing the benefit the incredible benefit they’ll see in the book a tool, called the hourglass, which is much too complicated for us to break down.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: On a show that’s audio only, but there are techniques that will make saying no easier, the first time and then like riding a bike and then easier, the next time and even easier and even easier, we just need to build the muscle.


David Horsager: let’s jump into it one of those challenges, and I will say this to my benefit I the tech addiction is not my my my pain point I run from it all the time when I probably should check it.


David Horsager: But it is we all have different different challenges and reasons and whatnot but let’s talk about this this tech piece of email because you’ve given some great tips and ideas and how we tame even as you’re talking about in the in the book defeating the email beast.


David Horsager: And what are some tips and takeaways we can think about as far as taming that email beast but not expensive relationships that we need to keep.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the philosophy is more important than the rules everybody wants to start with rules, we really need to start it’s like holding a Rosary when you don’t have a religion it’s backwards it’s the wrong way to start the philosophy is one of.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: less emotional connection to email.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can start releasing emotionally reminds me of the story in the book that I love about this guy named Maurice he had this really relaxed quality about email, even though.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was a middle manager in a car company and middle managers usually get really, really hooked because they feel that pressure from both sides, I asked him how he became so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In control and he said that when he was young, and he was selling cars, he was on the floor, and they would get these.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Manila envelopes on Monday and Friday, this is pre email, and it would have all the memos and xeroxes and updates and things that company thought he should read.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he read the Wednesday one like a good little boy, but then by Friday he hadn’t even gotten through and he get the Friday one, and then they would start stacking up and then by Wednesday he’s still etc.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So we went to this guy Maurice old guy on the team, what do you do and Maurice just smiled and he said come with me and he walked him to the parking lot.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he opened the trunk of his car and revealed exactly three things a case of water, a jack and a giant box of unopened Manila envelopes.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he said I put the date on and I throw it in here if nobody asked me about anything in three months I throw it away.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I tell this story in corporations people get a little ruffled because they think i’m.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: minimizing the importance of all the stuff coming from the corporate mothership but the truth is that a lot of it is over communication.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can just sort of relax our relationship with how important our email is then then next we go okay now let’s try some tools.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interval checking is a dominant tool for every smart person, I know, which means you choose when to touch it once an hour at mealtimes morning and evening some some form of interval.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The more nuanced tool that we really put our whole company around when it comes to email is called the yellow list the idea of a yellow list is that you need a repository for things that you thought belonged in email, but really don’t.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when you’re about to send an email what we teach is that you should go first through the decision tree of how time sensitive it is.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If the thing, even you’re literally poised about to type and you stop and you say first of all, is this time sensitive, because if it’s truly time sensitive.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It should not be in a digital medium, it should be in a phone call or I guess a text is digital but an immediate frame, not an asynchronous medium.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Now we’ve decided it’s not time sensitive you’re about to send it The next question is, should it be an email.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Is there a reason is this email is this communication email ish does it have an attachment of forward a copy a link, something that lives inside the world of email.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If not, most of the time, instead, you can put it on a yellow list, and what that is is just a document you keep for everybody, you relate with frequently and let’s say I have a David yellow list and I haven’t jake yellow list.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If I can just put it on my yellow list i’m just going to talk about it with you later so i’m going to go Oh, I really, really wanted to ask David about the thing about willow creek and then I go no I just put on the yellow list.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: boom boom boom gets a little longer, eventually, maybe once a week I call you hey David can we have a yellow list debrief I guess my phone is out of date i’ve got my.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: um.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I, and then we just go through it verbally no threads were created know cc’s wherever added, you can see, see someone on a conversation big bonus.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And you just boom boom boom boom move through it verbally.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Other bonuses you get to have three dimensional communication, which means that if we want to talk about saying it’s nuanced or difficult or creative.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: we’re going to talk through it in a much more thorough way being able to speak directly to each other.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this yellow list idea is absolutely at the core of the way we work, it can transform the amount of cumulative email that you get yes caveat some things need to be in writing legal etc, but it’s by far the exception, not the rule.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: let’s go one more step here, because you get into elevating communication tell us a bit of what how the you know how the best teams talk.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The best teams know that you match the medium with the message we just kind of talked about it a little bit there are two dimensional messages and there are three dimensional messages.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A two dimensional message is static or factor of inner simple.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: meet me at three o’clock did you send the report what day is that special off site that’s two dimensional.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Three dimensional is i’m a little upset with the way you behaved in front of that client or I have a fantastic idea for a new product Those are three dimensional topics that rich and creative and challenging.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: They belong in three dimensional mediums so 2d belongs in email text chats 3D belongs in face to face meetings phone calls video conferences.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When we have the right medium for the right message we work far faster and far easier and when we don’t, we have to prices that we pay.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take 2d content short factor of in content and you shove, it into a 3D medium that’s when you waste time that’s when you’re sitting in a meeting going, this could have been a memo right that’s that old mug i’m sitting in another meeting that could have been an email.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take the other direction, and you take three dimensional content you try to shove, it into a 2d medium.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s when you compromise richness and the reason that you get email threads that are 35 volleys long is because someone’s trying to work out the nuance of something difficult in a completely flat medium that doesn’t support it.


David Horsager: Good good tips what let’s jump back before we go into you as a leader, which i’m excited about and a few personal ideas with this limited time that we have let’s jump back for a moment to the book.


David Horsager: A one minute, a minute to think everybody a minute to think we’ll put everything in the show notes at trusted leader show calm, but anything else you think Oh, maybe this part doesn’t get enough attention, or some surprise, or something that’s like just.


David Horsager: Maybe a little interesting in the book that we should.


David Horsager: You know there’s so much here a lot that we couldn’t cover it like you said, the hourglass and so much great stuff everybody needs to get the book.


David Horsager: By the way, subtitle reclaim your creativity conquer reclaim creativity conquer business and do your best work and who doesn’t want to do that, but any little you know subtleties before we move on.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah you’re letting me, you are getting me out some of my children that don’t get in the spotlight so that’s so super fun.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: let’s talk about phone narration, which is, I think one of the LIFE changing tools that’s a little bit buried underneath some of the business stuff.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When people take out their phone in front of us it is so common now for them to just disappear into the phone that we have a kind of separation anxiety.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is getting worse and worse and worse, where we’re with a human being, and this has happened to me during client meetings where someone takes out a phone.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And they start doing something I have no idea what they’re doing I don’t know if they’re doing something related to something that i’ve asked them or if they just have spaced out into their seductive technology.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: We of course do this with our children to where we’re sitting in a catatonic state in front of them and they don’t know where we’ve gone and they don’t know when we’ll be back.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the simple loving and also very professional thing to do is to narrate where you’re going and when you’ll be back so if you’re in a business context you can say, let me just look up that regional manager Stat you just asked about.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or i’m just going to check my flights in Google it’s a wonderful thing.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re at home, you say to your child i’m just going to pick up the phone i’m just checking to see the maps to the lake that we’re going to or let me see if grandma’s available for tomorrow.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And by narrating by the simple act of narrating you’ve removed that.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: mystery of did my loved one slash business colleague just evaporate in front of my eyes, or are they actually still with me in the room.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the funnest thing about this is, if you do it with kids and family, they will very, very quickly, start catching you and say, could you please narrate when you’re not.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you’re not doing it.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because, then they get annoyed when you disappear so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I love that technique, I would like to do a.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: get a giant hippie bus and travel the country on a phone narration proselytizing journey, because I think it would just make so much of a.


David Horsager: Difference so much I can just see how that would mean so much, I remember this from you from before from you.


David Horsager: Are.


David Horsager: Talking about this or reading about it because it meant so much to me thinking about it so great stuff so let’s let’s let’s talk about you so.


David Horsager: You know Okay, here we are you’re an advisor to many senior leaders you’re on the platform, I think the first time I saw you was quite a long time ago, actually was.


David Horsager: At is a which is basically the presidents of learning organization.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh yeah.


David Horsager: And so we’re in a fairly intimate setting with just CEOs and presidents of learning organizations, but you’ve come a long way you’ve impacted many.


David Horsager: You know something we talked about here a lot is if you’re leading others, you know we got to think about leading our self.


David Horsager: Right, what are you doing to lead yourself, maybe it’s physically maybe it’s spiritually maybe it’s marital here at home, but what are you doing so that you can serve others well.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s a productivity guy named Mike varney who used an analogy last week that I love so much he said the day should be like doing a jigsaw puzzle, and you do the edges, first in your work in from there.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I just thought that was such a beautiful way of describing routines and the importance of routines so like most people I have morning routines that involve meditation for me i’m the my new thing is the coach the ice cold showers i’ve been trying them up to three minutes of.


David Horsager: Our quarter.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: how’s that going shower it is actually incredibly focusing and feel good after you get out I i’ve been very, very surprised at how much you you look forward to it after a certain point, not the during.


David Horsager: The day, not the two bays during but everybody knows, for you just give kind of a clue of what this is yes, the Wim hof cold.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: cold shower.


David Horsager: Yes, so you.


David Horsager: really are cleaning and.


David Horsager: Everything in a warm shower you’re.


David Horsager: washed off or whatever you want to do.


David Horsager: It might do if you did exercise before, and then you turn it to as cold, as it will go.


David Horsager: and see how long you last is that your your deal.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah i’m not i’m doing three minutes and that’s long enough for now, but it’s supposed to be really wonderful for immune system and metabolism and all sorts of other things.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it is incredibly intensely focusing and that’s the part that I like about it, so I believe that TIM ferriss line sees the morning seize the day i’m an intense morning person, so I like to set things up.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Make the bed meditate get my ducks in order have some aspect of white space, even if it’s just a minute to think about the day.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Where I and many others, I think, are sloppier is that closing part of the puzzle if my party says you work in from both edges, I think i’m just working from the Left.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’ve been in a lot of pondering about what are the closing rituals Mike.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Mike hi it has some wonderful closing rituals and and my closing rituals usually my child interrupts me when they can hear that the last phone call is over and that’s not the closing ritual that I really want.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the one that i’m pretty good at, and the one that we teach and I love is called trap yourself in a promise.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it’s just the most simple way of putting it into work when you walk out in front of whoever you live with just say it out loud and I do this pretty much every day, well done for the day.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And as soon as i’ve said or done for the day little ears and husband ears have heard that.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And even if you live alone, you can text a boundary buddy or you can say it out loud, for your own ears to hear, and now I have made a line in the sand.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because if I just walk right back in and take another SIP of the laptop everybody’s watching and it’s a really nice way of protecting myself from those tendencies to want to do more and want to work more.


David Horsager: Speaking of that how are you, you know in this environment and you do talk about technology and some of the you know challenges and different way, how are you leading your kids tell us about your family, first of all, husband, how many kids.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I have three boys are 11 1315.


David Horsager: Right and so they’re.


David Horsager: technology’s of.


David Horsager: boys, something that we have to deal with with our kids that our parents didn’t have to deal with right So how are you guiding them in some of these things as far as white space and focus and um well roundedness.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The word interstitial is when I use a lot in my work constantly convincing people that the interstitial use of space can be incredibly profitable and beneficial.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But in my home the word interstitial has a different meaning because that’s the primary directive that I give my children is to avoid their screens interstitial.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s not that my kids don’t watch videos or do a movie or do things that are screen based, but what we’re trying to do is.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: compartmentalize the use, so you take out an iPad you sit down and you use it for some period of time, as opposed to.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I eat a grape Oh, I just want to look something up I walk outside wait a second, I just want to see that D amp D Stat and that interstitial use of I touched it put it down gets to that time confetti that we’re all so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: worried about now I think that’s Adam grants wonderful line about time confetti.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So i’ve picked my battles over the years, we used to be a very i’ve used I used to be more militant about screen stuff when they were littler and now I understand that people have to participate in the world.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But i’m always trying to get them to put it in a bucket a little compartment an hour at a time 15 minutes at a time and then, can you put it away we do put those things away at around six o’clock so that at around 601 everybody’s eyes, clear and they look around, I go wow a family.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: hey and therefore we’re forced to interact in a different flavor in the last couple hours of the day.


David Horsager: How are you staying you know you’re leading others and I noticed like a great leader you’re quoting Adam grant and you talked about some others.


David Horsager: Earlier, because you’re a continual learner but how are you like, is there a consistent routine to staying fresh and relevant and capable and competent and.


David Horsager: Continually learning is there a process there or you’re reading you’re you’re studying or how are, how is it that you have you know, keep in your mind putting good inputs in.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: relationships and deadlines, would be the two things that come to mind in building relationships, I learned a lot just from if i’m really curious about my clients if i’m really curious about how they feel they’re leading me to have.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Two places where they have pain and I need to go find them answers and what was the second one, I said relationships in.


David Horsager: lines which I think no one’s ever said this.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Before yeah that, for me, I need to reach down in the well and find something new every two weeks, when I right, so I have a blog that’s in every two week blog and I have tons and tons of content that we put out so in content creation.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My dad used to say they’ll milk the cow, you know you put it there and something’s going to come out and so there’s times, where I sit down, I have 11 different video scripts to write or two blog posts, and then I have to start.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: musing on the Internet, finding out what’s going on finding out what’s current and what’s fresh and and then audio books or just always happening in a secondary.


David Horsager: What.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: was the one that’s my perfect what’s it what.


David Horsager: what’s the favorite audio book that you’ve listened to lately.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For development i’m in love with carrie new Hoff stuff now with at your best, and I love the energy calendar, he has this wonderful calendar, where you.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Basically, decide that there are green areas where you’re going to be at your best energy red and yellow based on your internal clock.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My green areas are early in the morning, and so I shouldn’t put.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Difficult or challenging things in the afternoon because i’m only turned on on green in the mornings just a wonderful helpful model.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But then whenever anybody asks about books, I always have to talk about fiction, because I believe fiction to be one of the very necessary food groups of a sane life.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’m constantly advocating for fiction because it’s it’s an activity that I consider white space adjacent.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That, if you have enough space in your personal life, you can get drawn into a beautiful book or a beautiful hobby and that’s a very, very important part of refueling and then coming back the next day full.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the current fiction that i’m in love with i’m reading Prince of tides, which I somehow missed and never read and it’s it’s insane it’s like the Creme brulee of writing it’s just me every sentence is so yummy.


David Horsager: Oh there’s so many more questions i’ve only gotten to a few of like what I was thinking about.


David Horsager: let’s go here, what about you what’s your biggest hope for the future, your business your life what’s something you’re thinking about maybe it’s bucket list, but maybe it’s a hope for the future either of your work, your family or your life.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When I was going to guess I don’t know mid 20s I remember trying to figure out what I wanted to do for a living and I opened up a newspaper and I thought I think I want to be a social worker.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I remember very distinctly sitting in this apartment and seeing that a social worker made $8 an hour.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it doesn’t feel like the most prideful story because there’s people whose passion to serve has overwritten that financial concern but mine didn’t and I remember thinking I don’t really know if I can do that I don’t really know if I could.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: make my life work on that and i’m I followed many other paths, but there was something about.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The original image of a social worker that would have been right for me sitting with one human being, at a time.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Hearing their story meeting with them repeatedly going deep in their world and then seeing them change and one of the problems of being.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: a really big keynoter on these giant stages of 12,000 people or having a company, where you just get reports about the way that you’re helping people as I do feel divorced.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In a way, that’s painful for me from that social worker feeling and I don’t really know how to get it back and so.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: i’m trying to figure out what does it look like to blend the success that we’ve had.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: With getting me someplace it’s even through the foundation that we’re building but getting me someplace where I see regular people in a chair across from me in the flesh.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I help them and I hear them and I honestly don’t know how that’s going to look but it’s missing for me, I think I was right at 21 in some ways, about that.


David Horsager: I think there’s something interesting I was walking with a mentor of mind in the middle of the.


David Horsager: pandemic and it was kind of like i’m i’m i’m asking him I get you know we’re talking through he’s someone who’s in the White House a lot he’s he keeps below the radar people ask for advice from him he’s 20 years you know my senior he.


David Horsager: For free he doesn’t ever take a paycheck, by the way, from any way presidents of countries or whatever he doesn’t whether it needs to or not he just he wants to be.


David Horsager: He but he’s invited to advise many and I was fortunate you happen to be at the College, I was at university.


David Horsager: For the very short time that I happened to be there just the four years I was there, and he kind of took me under his wing, you know, whatever that was 30 years ago 27 years ago.


David Horsager: And we’ve stayed friends he’s still definitely a friend and a mentor.


David Horsager: But he said something as We walked in I was thinking you know talking through Am I gonna have to let people go, am I gonna do these things in the pandemic that we didn’t know we were going to do with our business, unfortunately.


David Horsager: Many things turned out better than we ever might have dreamed at the time, but he said something he said, David.


David Horsager: Small is beautiful.


David Horsager: And it’s going to be more beautiful and he said I could see you, and he named someone that we would all know and I don’t I don’t think I should do that right here, but basically said you speak.


David Horsager: To thousands of people and and do all these kind of things, and of course out of the Institute, we do research and we certified people and we.


David Horsager: You know, do consulting with the enterprise trust index, and all those things but me commonly i’m the you know i’m on the.


David Horsager: platform or i’m in the boardroom or i’m on the executive day and he said he named somebody.


David Horsager: That only speaks six times a year now, and he used to speak to thousands and thousands and thousands at a time, and yet he makes more frankly money and impact.


David Horsager: Basically, by kind of mentoring or co co co mentoring this group of about six to 10 and senior senior leaders that many people have heard of on the show and so.


David Horsager: i’ve been thinking about the same thing, so I just really appreciate it we’re calling it the trust table.


David Horsager: And another phase, for me, I do actually like to speak, I like to inspire like to shift thinking I don’t just like that do I like to have a place where people go after that to have long term reinforcement and change and that’s.


David Horsager: Our certification and everything, but I think for me personally, this trust table idea you just ignited it and I just I wasn’t gonna talk about this, but i’ve been thinking about it and it’s we’re similar in that, where I I love that ongoing long term smaller relationship of change.


David Horsager: can happen so for whatever it’s worth one other thing came to mind, not to jump back on me, but you talked about like commitments some and how you, you say you know done for the day and how that kind of gives public accountability, so you may not have heard this, but you know I am.


David Horsager: In a time when I didn’t necessarily have that much money over a decade ago I said publicly if i’m not 50 pounds less or if i’m not my high school weight by May 1 of that year i’ll give you each give my staff 20 $500.


David Horsager: So I said this publicly, not knowing exactly how it was going to do it, but knowing that money it frankly was so important for me then there’s no way I wouldn’t let that you know figure it out and that commitment, I came in at you know I came in at three pounds less than I had.


David Horsager: started the last week right.


David Horsager: yeah I was.


David Horsager: A little bit again so interestingly enough, my team knows that I just made a commitment.


David Horsager: I have to get $5,000 to somebody if i’m not because i’d gone just not like that, but gone up a little bit again.


David Horsager: and knowing, I want to be back to that lean because I feel better and what when me if I make a commitment out loud, the big like I have to keep it, and so I have to figure out how to you know that that last part, by the way, is the toughest part but all i’m saying is that public commitment.


David Horsager: Whether it’s for space with your family.


David Horsager: Which is important done for the day or i’m going to do this, of course, it only works if you’re the kind of person that will keep the commitment or or fields responsibility for that for strengths Finder my main one is responsibility.


David Horsager: I know people that have made that commitment back to me saying I love that idea and they’ve never you know they haven’t said, a thing, and of course I haven’t haven’t.


David Horsager: It hasn’t met much but anyway i’ve really enjoyed this and Juliet you know I really appreciate the good you’ve brought to the world and.


David Horsager: from afar, even hearing speaking, and also in some ways aligned on this journey to to speak train equip coach consult and really hopefully move people toward better and so where can everybody find out more about you there’s a whole lot more to what you’re doing.


David Horsager: At sure yet fun group.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Juliet fun calm is a website and they can go there, they can get the first chapter of the book for free at the top of the homepage or they can also subscribe to my linkedin newsletter, which is that every other week blog.


David Horsager: perfect and you can find out a whole lot more we’ll put that all in the show notes last question, it is the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust and why.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Ah, you know it’s funny I always, I think I think of people in a lot of different categories and leader is never one of them my head goes i’ve keynoter friends author friends teacher friends trainer friends consultant friends.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I think Craig Rochelle is the one that comes to mind who’s a mutual guy that we know from glm he’s a pastor and also leadership expert and he just.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I think that when a leader is somebody that you trust you feel really safe for reasons that you can’t explain you just.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I just feel great I can be around him and be completely myself raw vulnerable good broken.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: fancy not fancy that just wonderful sense, and I think he’s just one of the most brilliant minds he’s really making this crossover now from faith based focus to a dual focus of faith and corporate and he’s going to be huge he’s brilliant yeah.


David Horsager: And what you said, I think, maybe the first word that comes to mind for me with him is authentic and willing to be vulnerable.


David Horsager: willing to share.


David Horsager: hey i’ve struggled to i’ve i’m trying to lead at home at work executive So yes, great example, thank you for.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For sharing that, thank you for.


David Horsager: Sharing your time and mind and everything else with us, and thanks for being my friend that.


Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: is great to be here.


David Horsager: Yes, thank you that’s the trusted leader show for this time until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 64: Charles Eide on Why You Should NOT Focus On What You’re Bad At

In this episode, David sits down with Charles Eide, Founder and CEO of EideCom, to discuss why you should NOT focus on what you’re bad at but you should instead focus on what you’re good at.

Show Notes: http://trustedleadershow.com/

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Charles’s Bio:
Charles Eide is the founder and CEO of EideCom, a full-service production agency based in Minneapolis, MN. Charles is a visionary, leading a talented team of professionals who create large-scale event experiences all over the world. Entrepreneur, thought leader, and innovator, Charles is an industry expert dedicated to growth and community.

Charles’s Links:
Eidecom: https://eidecom.com/
Second Stage: https://secondstage.events/
Charles LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charleseide/
Eidecom LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/eidecom-media-&-events/
Second Stage LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-stage/
Eidecom Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eidecom/
Charles Twitter: https://twitter.com/charleseide
Eidecom Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheEideCom
Charles Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/charlesevaneide/?hl=en
Eidecom Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eidecomcreative/?hl=en

Key Quotes:
1. “Forget about improving on the things you’re terrible at, start improving on the things you’re good at.”
2. “It all starts with vision.”
3. “It all comes down to empowering great people to do great work.”
4. “If you don’t trust your employees to do what they are there to do, maybe they shouldn’t be there.”
5. “Your physical fitness and your health and your body cannot be delegated to anybody.”
6. “You have to be patient with people.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Eidecom: https://eidecom.com/
Second Stage: https://secondstage.events/
Daniel Pink Masterclass: https://www.masterclass.com/classes/daniel-pink-teaches-sales-and-persuasion
“It’s Your Ship” by Captain D. Michael Abrashoff: https://amzn.to/3qaYU7S
“Traction” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3nbVhNb

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsager, I have a good


david_horsager: friend, a brilliant entrepreneur and the founder of EideCom with the Today


david_horsager: Charles Eide. Thanks through in with us.


charles_eide: Thanks for having me, David. it’s so great to see you, man.


david_horsager: Hey, just full disclosure. he is a friend, but he has produced some of our


david_horsager: best and biggest events. Trusted. Uh, back when we did the Trust Edge


david_horsager: summits Now we have the Trusted Leader Uh summit coming up. He did our


david_horsager: widely acclaimed virtual event out of their studio, which was like April


david_horsager: Fourteenth and fifteenth of the pandemic, and we had people on from around


david_horsager: the world. I remember Kirkstanon, and you know this is whoops, Um, my


david_horsager: throwing my pen. but this is interesting because even back we held eighty


david_horsager: CEOs and senior executives for two eight hour days, virtually


charles_eide: That is amazing. I mean, I, I mean, only you could


charles_eide: hold the attention.


david_horsager: and the studio and the lights and the interaction and all that. So you know,


david_horsager: there’s a lot more to you and I’m so excited. I mean you’ve started


david_horsager: companies. You’re selling one of your companies spinning one right off right


david_horsager: now. you are. I. Since I’ve known you’ve been an, you know this


david_horsager: entrepreneur, but also so not just this kind of foe, solo entrepreneur, this


david_horsager: leader of people that’s growing real businesses. You’re a a family man. You


david_horsager: fly your own plane, which I’ve had the opportunity to to to go with you on


david_horsager: some some fun things. Um, you know Y, there’s a lot to you, but give us say.


david_horsager: Just give us a couple more insights backgrounds on Charles side.


charles_eide: Well, I, uh,


charles_eide: first of all, David. this is so fun to be doing a pod cas with you. You are a


charles_eide: brilliant guy and I absolutely love following all the things you do.


charles_eide: So I guess you’d say that, Um, it all comes down to things that you are Pat


charles_eide: Ionate about, but that you’re also good att, right like we’ve all watched


charles_eide: American Idol where there are people that are wildly passionate about being


charles_eide: famous singers. but they’re not good


charles_eide: at singing and we all know it. I think it comes down to kind of identifying


charles_eide: those things in your career that you’re really good at and focusing on those


charles_eide: things. Uh, I read a book a long time ago and I don’t remember the name of it,


charles_eide: but what I took away from it was. Forget about improving on the things you’re


charles_eide: terrible at R. Start improving on the things you’re good at, because you’ll


charles_eide: become so good at them. And so that was kind of my thing. When I was uh, a kid


charles_eide: in high school, Um, I was really into audio visual and technology and it kind


charles_eide: of I. I got good at it. I got not good at like the technical stuff, as much as


charles_eide: understanding how an audience reacts to Um, the things that you do, And you


charles_eide: know, I knew that I could find great audio technicians. I could find great


charles_eide: lighting designers. I could find great video engineers, But really where where


charles_eide: my talent was? ▁ was in understanding how you can make an audience feel a


charles_eide: certain thing, And so today we do that for audiences all over the world,


charles_eide: mainly for big internal corporate meetings. That are, you know, Multiple days


charles_eide: they’re indoors. Um, we don’t do anything. you know. It’s funny you meet


charles_eide: people and they’re like. So like Do you do like concerts? Then you know and


charles_eide: you’re like Oh, I, uh, no, we don’t do concerts unless it’s for one of our


charles_eide: clients. Like you know, it’s part of the show. Then maybe we’ll do a concert.


david_horsager: so you know you, I’ve seen you know you produced some massive leadership


david_horsager: events. We’ve been a part of not just ours, but others that are uh


david_horsager: significant and you do have an eye on that, but you know. I also think you


david_horsager: know. sometimes you don’t see your own gifting. What I see you as


david_horsager: just this well rounded gifted entrepreneur that it’s actually really able to


david_horsager: lead people well inpire up like your sales team is better than any. I’ve


david_horsager: I’ve met. You’ve got a tech team that’s fantastic and will come in and


david_horsager: serve. I know you know they’re like. Oh, we had some big issues. Where is?


david_horsager: ▁You know, at our last kind of global event we had a ▁zoom up date. That


david_horsager: didn’t you know that happened the night before and they were just jumping


david_horsager: and helping making this happen. So we. we’re starting at a high level with,


david_horsager: you know, I don’t know how many cameras and everything, And it you know it’s


david_horsager: it was I. I. I just think somehow, at least the people you’re around, not


david_horsager: to, not to mention Mike. Uh, you know Danielsonn, and you just have great


david_horsager: people. but you you, you’ve made that happen. Ive, I’ve watched leaders can


david_horsager: have vision. stay so low, not hire right, not build a certain type of


david_horsager: culture and I guess I would say, let me tell you as if this is true. Like,


david_horsager: somehow you do it


david_horsager: well being not just winging it, but kind of able to like, piv it fast, and


david_horsager: like bring them with and not do every you know culture thing perfectly, And


david_horsager: maybe I’ve you got vision, But it’s not like I set up this whole culture


david_horsager: road map and the right perfect things, but we just go and people


david_horsager: come along. So um, you know, I don’t know. Tell us a little bit about your


david_horsager: leadership style,


charles_eide: well, I think it’s important to remember. It all starts with vision right. It


charles_eide: all starts with what is the vision of the company And how do we achieve that


charles_eide: vision? And yeah, you know, you can be really good at structuring departments.


charles_eide: In fact, we had a a meeting this morning about that is like how do we


charles_eide: structure our organization to be more effective, But really it all comes down


charles_eide: to empowering great people to do great work, you know, and and seeking those


charles_eide: for the things that they are really passionate about, but they are also


charles_eide: extremely talented at doing and then and then, believing in them and


charles_eide: empowering them to maybe even


charles_eide: spread theiring beyond what they thought they could do. You know, I,


david_horsager: so let let’s stop right there and say how do you hire those people be cause


david_horsager: there’s a lot of problems for people. Well, I just yeah, I want the people


david_horsager: like you seem to draw like they’ motivated and they like. what is it you


david_horsager: look for in? You know, Yes, there’s some things that are different with


david_horsager: sales people, production people, managers. But what is it as a whole that


david_horsager: fits in this dynamic culture? You? you? I mean, another thing. people should


david_horsager: know. you are able to pivot during the pandemic in like one of the most hit


david_horsager: industries in the world.


david_horsager: And you’ve you know you created a new technology, Re at later you, you’ve


david_horsager: um, you, You’re doing some of the most amazing virtual events, But it’s just


david_horsager: somehow you. how you hire is fascinating to me. How do you find them this


david_horsager: kind of person and get them to come along the journey with you?


charles_eide: well, I think I. that’s a really great question. Um, I, I really believe like


charles_eide: attracts like. but you can’t really attract great people unless you really


charles_eide: know who you are first. and so for for us it was establishing core values that


charles_eide: really identf the things that were important to us. And so we have four core


charles_eide: values that I’d come, positive, creative, effective and team player. Those are


charles_eide: the four things that we live by here, and when you make those clear in job


charles_eide: descriptions and in interviews, you almost scare away the people that don’t


charles_eide: resonate with those things while attracting the people that are like, Oh my


charles_eide: gosh, I’ve always been looking to work at a company that has positive people


charles_eide: and they’re creative, but they’re effective in what they do. And while we’re a


charles_eide: team, and so, I think starting out with the vision and the core values is


charles_eide: absolutely the center of attracting great people, and then of course living by


charles_eide: them and talking about them, You know, it’s funny. I. we talk about the core


charles_eide: values of this company at every Monday morning meeting. We have an all company


charles_eide: huddle every Monday at nine, and that all company huddel, we talk about the


charles_eide: core values and it’s funny because the people who have been here the longest


charles_eide: they’ heard it the most, and they’re the most excited about it because they


charles_eide: see the impact it has when the new people come in. You know we have. We’re


charles_eide: We’re hiring multiple people per month and they come in and the the, the


charles_eide: people who have embraced the core values and the vision of the company. They


charles_eide: almost get re energized. when new people join the team. They’re like, Oh, my


charles_eide: gosh like, I’m not insane for working here clearly because here’s another nut


charles_eide: job that wants to be positive with me, you know, so I, I think like attracts


charles_eide: like. and I think being clear crystal clear about what are your core values


charles_eide: embody those things and how they relate to the vision and the right people


charles_eide: will always reveal themselves.


david_horsager: How do you? Uh? did you lead the meeting still on Monday mornings or


david_horsager: somebody else?


charles_eide: It it depends on. so I have a business partner, Mike Danielson, you know, ‘.


charles_eide: David, uh, and Mike has been running the meetings lately, but sometimes I’ll


charles_eide: run em. Um, my goal really is to empower my my staff to actually start running


charles_eide: them. I want to let the other voices that want to be heard be heard. And so


david_horsager: Well, I didn’t know where we would go today, but we’re going to goul. What’s


david_horsager: the meeting? What’s the money? Morning? How to look like you got the whole


david_horsager: team. I mean, we’re going to go all over the place, But we we going to try


david_horsager: to do it? Fastcause? I want want to suck the Merrow life out of your brain.


charles_eide: yeah, totally


david_horsager: But what’s what’s what’s what?


charles_eide: tell. Well, Hey, that’s what we’re here to do. I’d so the money morning


charles_eide: meeting. Usually we start out I, Yeah, so we start out by. Like any updates


david_horsager: What are the key components? Yeah,


charles_eide: that are going on? What? What are you excited about? So usually we’ll we’ll


charles_eide: say you know. Would you would anybody like to share something that they’re


charles_eide: excited about That has happened in the last week or that’s coming up? We also


charles_eide: allow people to share Um, good news about each other, you know, brag on each


charles_eide: other. Hey, I was working on this project and Ryan really stood out as a key


charles_eide: player and he made my life easier. We also share. Um, like good feedback from


charles_eide: customers at the meetings. You know where a customer said something really


charles_eide: great and we want to make sure people know about it. We review the previous


charles_eide: week’s work so like because we’re in the event business, we’ll show photos and


charles_eide: all the like beautiful things that our team designed and executed that week as


charles_eide: ▁, as well as things that we’re working on. Then we move into talking about


charles_eide: the core values and we talk about what are our four core values And and how


charles_eide: does that relate, And then we move on to talking about the the reading


charles_eide: material. So every we, everybody is assigned a book every quarter and


charles_eide: everybody is reading that book throughout the quarter. So we say, would you


charles_eide: would anybody like to share something that they have learned this week in the


charles_eide: in the reading right now. Um, we’re actually studying Daniel Pink, Um. On


charles_eide: Masterclass, he’s got this series. and so the sales team sales and marketing


charles_eide: team, we’re studying the Daniel Pink Masterclass on sales,


charles_eide: where the operations team is reading a book called It’s your Ship And it’s a


charles_eide: book Mike and I read a while ago and it basically talks about. And you know


charles_eide: this book, David. it is, and


david_horsager: I know Mike. I know my Gaber shop. The. Yeah, the capain.


charles_eide: I mean, talk about an impactful book that empowers people to have a true


charles_eide: impact on their own environment, their own culture. Um, so so yeah, so we we


charles_eide: review the reading and then and then we, you know. Is there any updates or


charles_eide: things we need to talk about right now? our company is in the middle of


charles_eide: building a brand new facility. and Um, we’ve got a construction project that’s


charles_eide: you know, in the thick of it right now, including our studios and all this


charles_eide: stuff. So we’re talking about what our construction updates, you know. Are


charles_eide: there any things that came to mind last week when it comes to the new space?


charles_eide: Um, and then just keeping people energized around the new things the new


charles_eide: people were adding and he new hires that are coming up Um. again. It’s a very


charles_eide: meeting around the growth of the company and how we’re achieving the vision.


david_horsager: So do they have? do they share at that meeting? Like?


david_horsager: is it how do they share their Um, like weekly priorities or goals or


david_horsager: commitments or that kind of thing? Where does that get shared? Is that


david_horsager: online on Microsoft teams, or is that how? how do you keep them aliged with


david_horsager: what each person needs to do to get there?


charles_eide: Yeah, so we’re all First of all, we’re all in person a hundred per cent,


charles_eide: And that has been the the case since the


charles_eide: pandemic began. We decided against the idea of remote


david_horsager: y. yeah,


charles_eide: work. Um, while the culture is telling us to do it, we said we’re not going to


charles_eide: do that. And so everybody’s in person now. when it comes to the granular work


charles_eide: that each person is doing, we follow the traction e o S model very closely.


charles_eide: Uh, we have an implementer. We are very serious about using traction, and so


charles_eide: we have weekly level ten meetings for each department. So the leadership team


charles_eide: has a weekly level ten, and then each of the departments of Sales of Marketing


charles_eide: has a Littleton Administration has a level ten, and then operations says a


charles_eide: level ten.


david_horsager: Okay at Mar, sales and marketing operations and A, and they all have their


charles_eide: Yeah, they all have their own meeting, and in that meeting you know, I’m not


charles_eide: sure how familiar


charles_eide: you are, but I’ll just share with the audience you. the level ten meeting


charles_eide: basically designed by Gina Wickman and the Traction team, Um, which I’m


charles_eide: honored by the way we will be producing the E o S Traction event coming up


charles_eide: next year. Wow,


charles_eide: how thrilled are we about that? What an amazing thing. Uh. but the e o S


charles_eide: traction model, the Level Ten meeting really embodies the important thing. So


charles_eide: it starts out with a segway where every shares, then it moves into the


charles_eide: scorecard. What’s going on?


charles_eide: You know, and everybody has their metrics and either you’re on track or you’re


charles_eide: off track


charles_eide: right, Uh, and then your rocks. So like what you need to get done this


charles_eide: quarter, are you on track or off track for your rocks, and then the To do list


charles_eide: and people headlines, Um, and then I. d. s, which is where we spend


charles_eide: most of our time identifying discussing and solving problems. Um, and


charles_eide: obviously I won’t get


charles_eide: into the the G. You’re very familiar


charles_eide: with this, but for the listeners, Traction’s a great way to


charles_eide: the book, Traction by Geno


charles_eide: Wickman’s. a great way to learn.


david_horsager: So, do you on that and we use part of it. We have some things we field in


david_horsager: ourselves that we we like, But basically


david_horsager: on that does the implement an outside, hired consultant and implement. in


david_horsager: your case, lead all three of those before those meetings.


charles_eide: No, So so our implementer only does the quarterly and the annual, So we have


charles_eide: three quarterlies and an annual, and that implementer we have Dan Mosha, I


charles_eide: don’t know if


david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm,


charles_eide: you’ve ever heard of Dan Mosha, Uh, Dan has been a game changer, I think he’s


charles_eide: the best implementer out there. Um. but what I was going to say is he helps us


charles_eide: develop the Uh, the quarterly and the annual stuff that then carries into what


charles_eide: we execute in each Level ten


charles_eide: meeting and then E, the leader of that department runs that meaning.


david_horsager: okay, yup,


david_horsager: So okay. at what point did you start? How many people did you have to have


david_horsager: to start making it meaningful beyond like just having one of those weekly,


charles_eide: Well, I mean, you know when you’ve got a handful of people, Let’s say you got


charles_eide: three to five people. I don’t think you need multiple


charles_eide: departments. At that point, you know you’ve got all that wrapped


charles_eide: together. It really started happening when we got up in the like


charles_eide: teens where it was like you know when you got into eleven, twelve


charles_eide: thirteen. Now


charles_eide: now you’ve got different departments.


david_horsager: right. all


david_horsager: right. Well, there’s a lot here. How how is your? How is you know? you look


charles_eide: Um, you know, now we’re going to be


david_horsager: back at you being kind of an entrepreneur A lot of your life. and Wh, what?


david_horsager: what It’s change for how you lead over time? How have you changed?


charles_eide: that. That is probably the most interesting question I’ve been getting asked


charles_eide: lately because I have changed a lot. Uh, and I think I u. I. First of all, I


charles_eide: used to always think that if you had people on your staff, you had to. If you,


charles_eide: if you hired people, you had to micromanage them. you had to. you had to lead


charles_eide: with an iron fist. And you know the old school way like I grew up around my


charles_eide: grandfather, and it was very like Lead with the iron fist. If they don’t


charles_eide: perform, you fire them. you know. it was micromanaging them. What are you doing?


charles_eide: I need to report every thirty minutes. You know whatever,


charles_eide: and you know there was a shift I made where I said, Why am I doing all this?


charles_eide: I’m actually working more


charles_eide: by doing that instead of hiring great people to do the job, And so I went from


charles_eide: A, and part of that was hiring the right people, and R, really moving better


charles_eide: people into the organization where today I think we have so many people who


charles_eide: are professional and amazing. I think hiring great people and trusting them


charles_eide: to do the work,


charles_eide: and I, I mean, just like you or me, David, the Um.


charles_eide: The autonomy we have


charles_eide: gives us the freedom to be creative and make great things happen, and we need


charles_eide: to give that to our employees. because if you don’t and you don’t trust them


charles_eide: to do what they’re there to do, maybe they shouldn’t be there.


charles_eide: So I think it’s much more of a A. A. A, hands off from managing, but more of a


charles_eide: trusting and caring for people.


david_horsager: What. Let’s get personal for a second. At least the great leaders that I’ve


david_horsager: talked to and been around. it seems like they have some ways they lead


david_horsager: themselves well, or even some routines. And you know we talk about a lot.


david_horsager: It’s hard to be a great leader out there. if you’re not leading yourself the


david_horsager: hardest person. you have to leader yourself. What do you do? personally?


david_horsager: discipline wise, routine, wise to be healthy as a leader. Maybe it’s


david_horsager: physically spiritually. you know, Uh, interpersonally or or otherwise, you have


david_horsager: you have something that you do.


charles_eide: Yeah, I mean I, first of all, I like to make sure that my daily routine is


charles_eide: nearly the same every single day. Um, I get up at the same time I go to the


charles_eide: office. I always go to the office unless I have a meeting


charles_eide: and that’s really important. I also probably about two three years ago decided


charles_eide: that if I wasn’t physical, uh, physically healthy that I couldn’t perform at


charles_eide: my best and so I said, Enough is enough about feeling guilty. Um, I, I work


charles_eide: out best in the middle of the day, makes my whole day


charles_eide: better and so I carve out time that it’s not negotiable. You cannot schedule


charles_eide: me between eleven thirty and one ever. I will not meet you. I don’t care who


charles_eide: you are. my physical fitness of my body. Uh, was was even in my late twenties


charles_eide: and early thirties, was taking a back seat and you could see it and I could


charles_eide: it. The doctors, you know, doctors are nice people and they don’t like to tell


charles_eide: you the truth. Uh, they don’t like to tell you the cold’s


charles_eide: truth, but the cold truth was, I was in my mid thirties with the beginnings of


charles_eide: heart problems with high blood pressure and cholesterol and all these things


charles_eide: that I just neglected and I and I finally said Enough is enough. I need to


charles_eide: take care of myself. So my physical body was, you know important.


david_horsager: I had a very similar experience as you know, and it made all the difference.


david_horsager: One of the problems is we guess compared to other kind of average people in


david_horsager: better than that. Well, that mean sometimes, but what do you? um


david_horsager: on that? Do you?


charles_eide: Do you mind if I share something


charles_eide: with you? It’s a revelation that I had for us


charles_eide: leaders when it comes to take taking care of our bodies, and I? I. This is


charles_eide: something that took me years to figure out and I figured it out and it made so


charles_eide: much sense. As leaders were used to delegating out everything to the experts


charles_eide: in on our teams. Right. We’re used to coming up with master plans and then


charles_eide: executing them by having others do that stuff.


charles_eide: Your physical fitness and your health and your body cannot be delegated to


charles_eide: anybody, and that’s where we fail. as we think. Oh, well, if I hire a trainer


charles_eide: and a nutritionist I’ll be fine. No,


charles_eide: there is no leverage on this. It is a one to one work to return ratio and


charles_eide: there is no leverage You can’t put in one and get five with your body In your


charles_eide: fitness. it does not work and I think we have this mentality as leaders where


charles_eide: we’re like. there’s got to be a short cut. I mean, there’s got to be some


charles_eide: leverage in here somewhere and the truth is there is no leverage in it. It is


charles_eide: a one to one input to return ratio and you have to decide you’re going to do


charles_eide: it. Uh, and and I think leaders struggle with it because we want to outsource


david_horsager: Yeah, So what do you do? Uh, eleven thirty to one is, do you guys have a


david_horsager: fitness place at your offices? or will you at your new one?


charles_eide: so our new facility will have a a fitness center with. Um, the men’s and


charles_eide: women’s restrooms both have showers,


charles_eide: two showers and each one


charles_eide: we’ve got. I mean, we really are like we’re going all out on this.


david_horsager: Yup, that’s nice.


david_horsager: so a lot of people don’t have that. So what did you do the last while like


david_horsager: you? Because you didn’t have a fitness center in your last offices, Did you?


charles_eide: No, No, and where we are Currently? Yeah, there’s no fit. So I, I did hire a


david_horsager: so what would you do? would you? Yeah, that’s awesome. I, I’d like that,


david_horsager: Someday, Yep,


charles_eide: trainer and I was like. I need this to be financially painful enough that I’ll


charles_eide: do the work


charles_eide: because if I’m paying for a you know a trainer to train me


charles_eide: three four days a week, it needs to be financially painful so that I do the


charles_eide: work. and


david_horsager: Did you go to Uh, a place?


david_horsager: A Gm? Yeah,


charles_eide: currently, Yeah, I mean, that’s where I, so I train Currently a North Loop


david_horsager: Yp. Yep.


charles_eide: fitness in Minneapolis. Uh, with my trainer. That’s where he likes to meet.


david_horsager: right. Okay, so that’s good. So hey, do you do you mind getting personal


david_horsager: here? What time do you get up and what time you get to the office?


charles_eide: okay, I am a lifelong um. night owl that is trying to train himself to not be


david_horsager: Yep, yup,


charles_eide: What’s funny is um. I. I. So I, and now I go to bed about ten thirty.


charles_eide: That’s where I try and be in bed. Um, and then I get up around seven.


charles_eide: Uh, Sometimes, if you ask my wife’s she’d probably say seven thirty. Um,


david_horsager: leave way


david_horsager: there and then you go straight to the officer. Do you hang out with the


charles_eide: So that’s that’s my routine.


david_horsager: family first, or do you? you go straight the office and you do family time


david_horsager: at different time.


charles_eide: Yeah, so usually so the kids are kind of already under way there. The the boys


charles_eide: are waiting for the bus. Evelyn’s already at school by then, and so we, we


charles_eide: will just and I will sit and have coffee for about a half hour sitting in the


charles_eide: piano room. Well, I’m eating or drinking my coffee.


charles_eide: Um, having my breakfast and so on.


david_horsager: And what? what? what about? So when do you see the kids And what? Hire you?


david_horsager: Intentional that way Because I know you are.


charles_eide: Yeah, it. kids. are you know? the evenings are better with the kids they’ve


charles_eide: had their school day. They’re at home. We’ll do fun little projects right now.


charles_eide: I’m working on the the basement and putting in Um, like fi. uh, I’m putting in


charles_eide: a fitness facility in my basement as well. uh, we will work out together, the


charles_eide: kids, the the boy. Well, all three of them we will work out together and


charles_eide: they’re getting into it. It was funny the other day I was downstairs working


charles_eide: out and my six year old comes down and he, just he doesn’t say a word, and he


charles_eide: walks over to the dumbbells and grabs the fives


charles_eide: and he starts uh, doing bicep curls by himself. Doesn’t say a word to me.


charles_eide: He’s just doing bicep curls and then he goes over and he sits on the bench and


charles_eide: it’s funny because kids. it’s like. it’s like people on your team. They don’t


charles_eide: do what you say. they do what you


charles_eide: do and I don’t know where he figured this out, But he starts doing a bench


charles_eide: press with these dumbbells and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, this is so cute, so we


charles_eide: like to work out. We have a very fit family. My wife is actually a trainer.


charles_eide: and and so she keeps us on line as well, and she cooks a healthy dinner. I get


charles_eide: home at night and


charles_eide: chicken with no seasoning on it at all,


david_horsager: there you go. raw chicken right on the bone,


charles_eide: and vegetables. Lots of chicken


david_horsager: So let you know that’s it here. This is a fun one for me this week because I


david_horsager: just happened this week, and uh to my ki. My, the two youngest, my youngest


david_horsager: is, you know he’s skiing. He’s on the aerial ski team, Snowking and uh does


david_horsager: lacrosse, and so these things. But but he asked my daughter who’s dance and


david_horsager: stretching and all that kind of stuff, he said to her. the thirteen year old


david_horsager: to the fourteen year old. Can you be my trainer and my coach and helped me


david_horsager: get stretched out so I can do these um aerial things And he’s a great ath,


david_horsager: little athlete. You know, he he’s but, but it’s kind of fun seeing the work


david_horsager: city. So she said, Okay, Be up at six tomorrow morning. We’re meeting. We’re


david_horsager: going to. you know. we’re going to start this training session. So they’re


david_horsager: They’re certain of training together. It’s it’s


charles_eide: isn’t that cute.


david_horsager: pretty funny. Yeah, that’s so fun. so um, let’s go to. You know you’ve


david_horsager: learned a lot in your career. What are you learning right now?


charles_eide: I’m learning. Oh man, I’m learning a lot of stuff. Im learning to be patient


charles_eide: that it like my lifelong thing is being patient.


charles_eide: I’m a very impatient person.


david_horsager: so challenging for us that are entrepreneurs. It’s like we needed to Sm


david_horsager: mountains, but that seems like it’s a common thread for me. It’s like this.


david_horsager: Y. there’s you know it. I, in some ways, I think actually, impatience is a


david_horsager: value for an entrepreneurs to push the mountain down. Turns out it’s not so


david_horsager: great at home or with kids or with relationships, so we have to work against


david_horsager: that in


david_horsager: human relationship. And yet we have to, you know, I’m made to be a driver in


david_horsager: a way too, right,


charles_eide: Yeah, I mean’s, so true. it’s like y like I am naturally a very impatient


charles_eide: person. Uh, I, I expect you know, I expect things to be done a certain way in


charles_eide: a certain time period and I’m not very patient about it. And then you’re


charles_eide: you’re totally right. When you go home, you’re like I need to be patient.


charles_eide: Um, I know that. Uh, Jessica told me this thirty times. Uh, but I need to


charles_eide: listen to her. Tell me at a thirty first time. Um, you know you’re like. I


charles_eide: have to be patient, but then of course there’s times where I’ll I’ll be like


charles_eide: we’re We’re doing what with with who and should be like. I have told you this


charles_eide: thirty times and I’m going to kill you. so I think you know patience goes both


charles_eide: ways, but in the workplace I, I think that if you’re naturally an impatient


charles_eide: person, it’s just coming down to how you harness that impatience, because I, I


charles_eide: will say that it is good to drive results and to hold people accountable, but


charles_eide: you also have to be patient with


charles_eide: people. Um, especially when they’re learning as well. so that’


david_horsager: and I think in a pandemic and with all the things happening, there was


david_horsager: definitely a time to start and show up with empathy first.


david_horsager: No doubt it.


charles_eide: that’s how we got through it.


charles_eide: I mean, that’s how we got through It was to care for the team first, and I’ve


charles_eide: always been. you know everybody, says David. They. they always go well. The


charles_eide: customer is always first and I, you know what I decided a long time ago. My my


charles_eide: team is first, Because if there first they will put the customer first.


david_horsager: right, totally true.


charles_eide: So I always have their back, no matter what.


david_horsager: Are you thinking about following up on the learning question? Are you


david_horsager: curious about anything right now that you’re like pressing into?


david_horsager: I’m curious about this right now, whether it’s you know, a certain


david_horsager: technology leadership or how our world’s going to be, or how you’re going to


david_horsager: solve something.


charles_eide: Well, I mean, I’m always curious how the world’s going to be, and I’m kind of


charles_eide: one of those rebels when like the world tells me to do something, I’m like.


charles_eide: No, I’m not doing that. Um, So you know, I, I wrestle with that stuff, but I,


charles_eide: I mean from a technology standpoint we started a company called Second Stage


charles_eide: and it’s a software company that has a product. We only have one product right


charles_eide: now. It’s a great product. Um, that basically is a virtual venue for Um


charles_eide: events. So if you have an event going on and you want to provide an online


charles_eide: audience with a great experience, Second stage is a great product. for that.


charles_eide: We’re also finding that it’s also really good for the in person audience. So I


charles_eide: imagine you’re at a conference in Las Vegas and there’s a speaker coming up,


charles_eide: But you want to run back to your room, you know, or you want to sit by the


charles_eide: pool, and you want to watch the general session from the pool. Second stage is


charles_eide: a great way you can pull up the schedule. Click on it and watch uh, the live


charles_eide: content or the pre recorded content, so we develop that, but I’m still


charles_eide: learning about technology and I get frustrated with myself about it because my


charles_eide: mind doesn’t work like that and I don’t really understand timelines and how


charles_eide: stuff works around, developing software and features and rolling them out, And


charles_eide: I just I struggle with


charles_eide: it And so it’s something I’m really trying to wrestle with and understand


charles_eide: better right now.


david_horsager: it’s interesting. you know, just thinking how parallel our journeys are. I


david_horsager: remember when when kind of my tech director, said David. Um, believe it or


david_horsager: not, you’ve just become overnight the c, e O tech company and I’m like, No


david_horsager: cause I, I don’t even like posting on Facebook, right, I don’t.


david_horsager: but when we built the the platform, one of the things I think that I’m


david_horsager: excited about is that we kept the human component of real people, But, but


david_horsager: our, our Our trust certified platform where people can measure and get


david_horsager: reinforcement. All these tools. That was a big, massive fun learning for me,


david_horsager: and it still is. It’s part of our


david_horsager: whole way of you know, building trust in the world, but it’s kind of


david_horsager: interesting because. We were kind of starting our technology journey a few


david_horsager: years ago about the same time. Um.


charles_eide: I have a family member who’s made his. You know, his entire career in the in


charles_eide: the tech world, and he, you know he’s so, he’s brilliant beyond


charles_eide: me And he said to me, He’s like Look,


charles_eide: we are all always learning in this, So don’t think you’re going to figure it


charles_eide: out cause you won’t


charles_eide: that’ reassuring. thanks.


david_horsager: exactly. But and yet at the center of almost every business will be


david_horsager: technology in you know this decade you won’t find one Without That doesn’t


david_horsager: mean there won’t be an absolutely human component. I think people are a


david_horsager: little. s wrong a little bit and thinking it’s it. Really, people should


david_horsager: still be at the center, but technology will be able to amplify a lot of


david_horsager: things. even as you noted the in person experience.


david_horsager: What’s uh? what? What’s your biggest hope for the future


charles_eide: Uh, that’s a really big question, David. are you referring like like a big bi?


david_horsager: anyway? business life, personally,


charles_eide: well, I would say world peace, but I think we’ve been at that for a long time


charles_eide: and I haven’t seen it yet. I feel like I even look at. I’m watching World War


charles_eide: Two in color on Netflix, and I’m like I don’t think we’re ever going to have


charles_eide: peace. I really wish we would, but I don’t know.


david_horsager: are there side projects like that though that you’re trying to make a dent


david_horsager: in? I mean we we love. Uh, trying to make a dent in certain global


david_horsager: corruption issues with our trust work and and things. But are there things


david_horsager: you’re thinking about that way like you really hope. Maybe it’s for your


david_horsager: kids, but maybe it’s for the future. Maybe it’s some of the things you are


david_horsager: doing on the side. I know you have a heart for transformation. And and


david_horsager: things are there things you’re thinking about that you don’t mind hearing


david_horsager: publicly that you’d hope


charles_eide: I mean I. My thing is like I. I just hope that I can help my. My real thing


charles_eide: is, I want to help other young entrepreneurs. see,


charles_eide: um, see the value they can bring this world. I think that you know that was


charles_eide: that was me and I. I actually had a couple of really great mentors along the


charles_eide: way. that made all the difference in the world to me, and even they weren’t


charles_eide: even super hands on. They were like. At a distance, you know, I have mentors


charles_eide: today that Um, still mentor me like Chris Linddall, He’s a big real estate guy


charles_eide: here in the Twin cities. He calls me and we’ll talk on the phone, Just


charles_eide: randomly talk on the phone for an hour about it. like the biggest challenges


charles_eide: that I’m facing. Um, or like road blocks he sees coming up for me that I


charles_eide: didn’t even see and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, Like, what a gift to have friends


charles_eide: that are so good like that and I just I want to be able to be that for others.


charles_eide: Um, along the way that I, there’s this really cool young kid. his name is


charles_eide: Julian and I met Julian when I was speaking at. Um, I was speaking at. I think


charles_eide: it was at Maranatha . It’s a private school here in the Twin Cities and I was


charles_eide: speaking to their senior class and he comes up to me afterwards and he’s like


charles_eide: Hey, I’m thinking about starting this uh business where it will will fuel up


charles_eide: your car in the parking lot And I was like That’s brilliant and he was like,


charles_eide: Yeah, I’ve got investors and I got all this going. He’s like I don’t need


charles_eide: money. I just I just want to know you and you know once in a while, reach out.


charles_eide: I tell you what, this kid this summer shows up to my office with his truck,


charles_eide: and it’s got the fueling equipment on it. All the professional stuff. He’s got


charles_eide: the uniform. He’s like I got the App, and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, come in and


charles_eide: let’s talk about this. this is so exciting. So if I can help one or two or a


charles_eide: thousand or a million entrepreneurs do better, Uh, you know I will be happy.


david_horsager: there is a lot more we could talk about. I love that


david_horsager: mentoring goes both ways. You learn so much when you mentor


david_horsager: as you know.


david_horsager: Well, here we go, Charles. There’s a lot more we could talk about and we


david_horsager: have fun doing it. But where can people find out more? Where is the one key


david_horsager: place? People can find out more about Charles Eide or EideCom


charles_eide: Well, if you want to follow me on Instagram, it’s Charles Evan, Eide, I


charles_eide: dispelled, E. I, d E.


charles_eide: I’m pretty active on Instagram, Also, Uh, we just launched a brand new EideCom


charles_eide: dot com. So it’s e, i d e C, o m, dot com one him and there’s plenty of cool


charles_eide: stuff on EideCom Dot Com and Um, And then, of course, if you want to check out,


charles_eide: our event platform’s called Second stage


charles_eide: dot events, Google Second stage event platform, you’ll find it


david_horsager: that’s perfect. and as always, Kent will put all of this in the show Notes.


david_horsager: Trusted leader show dot com. You can find everything about second stage and


david_horsager: EideCom and uh, you know just his instagram. everything he’s doing, Charles,


david_horsager: You’re amazing. We got to go. We need to go fly somewhere again.


charles_eide: Anytime, Dave. Let’s go.


david_horsager: Let’s go. Let’s jump over


david_horsager: to Oshkosh again next summer. Oh thank you. let’s tell us jump to Oshkosh


charles_eide: It’s great to see you and thanks for having me.


david_horsager: again next year.


charles_eide: Let’s do it.


david_horsager: All right well, this has been the trust the leader show, thank you, Charles


david_horsager: until next time everybody stay trusted.

Ep. 63: Gerry O’Brion on How To Become The #1 Choice In A Crowded Market

In this episode, David sits down with Gerry O’Brion, Marketing Expert and Keynote Speaker, to discuss how to become the #1 choice in a crowded market.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Gerry’s Bio:
Gerry O’Brion has helped thousands of CEOs, executives, sales teams, and franchisees become the #1 choice in crowded industries.

Gerry is the creator of The Because framework of influence that reveals how to become the #1 choice, even in a crowded market.

He is currently authoring a book about the framework – They Buy Your Because – Closing the sale in a crowded market, which shows companies how to clarify their message, stand out in the sea of sameness and close more sales.

Gerry spent his career as an executive for brands like Procter & Gamble, Coors Light, Quiznos, and Red Robin. He has an MBA from the University of Michigan, a BBA from the University of Wisconsin and spent 8 years in the military.

Gerry’s Links:
Website: https://www.whatbigbrandsknow.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerryobrion/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WhatBigBrandsKnow

Key Quotes:
1. “If you make a promise with no proof, you don’t finish the sentence of influence.”
2. “Your brain needs a rational reason to make the emotional decision.”
3. “Finish the sentence of influence.”
4. “Your why is the inspirational rallying cry behind why your company exists.”
5. “Talk to your customers! Be a listening organization.”
6. “The big mistake is making a promise with no proof.”
7. “People are afraid of making a bad decision.”

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the trusted Leader show. it’s David Horsesgger, I have a special


david_horsager: guest with the day. He might be the most brilliant mind I know. on branding


david_horsager: and marketing. He’s been an executive and everything from Proctor and


david_horsager: Gamble, the coors Light to Red Robin to ▁quiz knows. he’s led some amazing


david_horsager: initiatives such as the I know it, ▁quiznos, the Sammy, uh, Sammy’s


david_horsager: initiative, or the the One million sub, Uh, Give away. He’s done some


david_horsager: innovative projects. He loves the farm like I do, and even as goats he lives


david_horsager: in this, this property that he is designed. I. he’s kind of architect on the


david_horsager: side, which is really cool. but he’s just a great down to earth guy and I


david_horsager: get to call him friend. So grateful to have you on Jerry O’brien.


gerry_obrion: Thank you so much for having me. This is fun. exciting.


david_horsager: Oh, this is. this is superbl. That’s all for my head. By the way, if I


david_horsager: actually would


david_horsager: have read a bio on you, we would be here for a long time. so um, anyway,


david_horsager: that’s uh. it’s It’s really cool and you’ve been traveling around the world.


david_horsager: You help people find there because you help people with branding and


david_horsager: marketing. You’ve been recently. were talking about it. I’ve got a good


david_horsager: flight of Vienna next week. You’re you’re in Bahrain. Um, you know recently,


david_horsager: or’re not even in your home city today, But um, let’s let’s jump in first of


david_horsager: all. Just kind of give us a a quick. Who’s Jerry O’brion.


gerry_obrion: so uh, you know it’s so funny. who’s Jerry Brown? grew in a small farm town in


gerry_obrion: Wisconsin, and now I travel all over, speaking to Ceo’s executive sales teams


gerry_obrion: about how to influence people to say yes to them. Whether it’s we need to


gerry_obrion: influence people to buy from us, which is a lot of what I do, But now even


gerry_obrion: more so, how do we influence employees to work for us? More and more people


gerry_obrion: are trying to figure out how do I become the employer of choice. How do you


gerry_obrion: influence people to work for you? Some companies, How do we influence


gerry_obrion: investors? You


gerry_obrion: know, and you know, you’ve got some politicians on here. How do you influence


gerry_obrion: people to vote for you? So I have a framework of influence that I’ve created


gerry_obrion: and honed over. Uh, thousands and thousands of of executives and sales teams


gerry_obrion: over the last decade, and that’s what I do now.


david_horsager: that’s so fun. Well, we’re going to jump in that. we’ll get personal a


david_horsager: little bit later, but I think we should just Stmp, jump into this framework.


david_horsager: I mean, I’ve heard you, Uh, we’ve been on the same stage together. You’ve uh


david_horsager: got an amazing message and I know you go deep in this in workshops and


david_horsager: consulting. But this whole idea about the because, First of all, give us a


david_horsager: little. you know that you, you say they buy your because, and may even


david_horsager: differentiate. There’s a lot about the Y these days, the y, and it seems


david_horsager: kind of similar, so maybe give us a little bit of the because. we’ll jump in


david_horsager: the framework in a couple of minutes, but just kind of that overall. And and


david_horsager: even how those two are different.


gerry_obrion: Yeah, absolutely so. so my framework is simple. You start with. who are you


gerry_obrion: trying to influence? What do you know about them? The insights Question One,


gerry_obrion: who are you trying to influence? Question too, what are your insights? What do


gerry_obrion: you know about what they want more of or less of, or really what they’re


gerry_obrion: hoping to achieve, or what they fear when they’re buying from you? Yp, Yup,


david_horsager: Okay, slow down. so go back to number one Really quick. Who are they? who is


gerry_obrion: who are they?


david_horsager: that who do you want Influence? Is it is that kids kind of influence them to


david_horsager: clean their rooms, Or is it you know


gerry_obrion: I? I always joke. It’s uh, influencing your kids to put the bulls face down in


gerry_obrion: the dishwasher, not face up. Yeah, so it?


david_horsager: there you go exactly, but in influencing influence start of sale influencing


david_horsager: constituents. Frankly, Republicans and Democrats here on the U S side of the


david_horsager: world, influencing others They. we, just you know a big bill was pass and


david_horsager: you had to have some from the other side, join each o each other’s side on a


david_horsager: few of other things, which is Um. So how number one it


gerry_obrion: who is your target? who are you?


david_horsager: is. who’s the target who? the audience? Number


gerry_obrion: who? who?


gerry_obrion: What are their insights Right? And this is great a political example. What do


gerry_obrion: they really care about? And there’s a lot of things going on that they care


gerry_obrion: about, everything from relection to serving their constituents to. Those are


gerry_obrion: all the things that they’re hoping for or what they fear right when you’re


gerry_obrion: influencing a customer to buy from you. What do they hope will happen if they


gerry_obrion: buy from you? What do they fear will happen if they buy from you even


gerry_obrion: another way? What do they fear will happen if they don’t buy from you? But


gerry_obrion: they buy from your competitor. They buy from some one else. So those that


gerry_obrion: mindse piece. Once you know who you’re trying to go after that mindset hopes


gerry_obrion: fears, uh insights. Then we get to question number three of the framework, I


gerry_obrion: know who I’m going after. I know what’s on their mind, what they care about.


gerry_obrion: what’s your outcome. What’s the promise you’re going to make? I’ll give you an


gerry_obrion: example here. if you


gerry_obrion: only promise an outcome. Here’s what’s in it for you. Here’s what’s in it for


gerry_obrion: you if you buy for me. If you only promise an outcome and you don’t what.


gerry_obrion: Finish, what I call the sentence of influence, and I’ll talk about your,


gerry_obrion: because is the ending of your sentence of influence. If you only make a


gerry_obrion: promise, we’ll give you an example. I’m Jerry. I’m goingnna open up a pizza


gerry_obrion: place and my marketing is this. Hey, come on into Jerry’s pizza. Our pizzas


gerry_obrion: Yeah, we. well, you know what we want. Better pizza. We all want better pizza.


gerry_obrion: We all want a better experience. we all want a better product. Hey, David, By


gerry_obrion: our product, it’s higher quality


gerry_obrion: right. Everybody says it. If you make a promise with no proof, you don’t


gerry_obrion: finish the sentence of influence, it, Y you get left hanging right. So the


gerry_obrion: question number before is your, because there’s great research out there. The


gerry_obrion: two thousand two Nobel prize winner in economics was not an economist who is a


gerry_obrion: psychologist that unravellled what happens in our brains when we make


gerry_obrion: decisions, And what he was able to show is that


gerry_obrion: your brain is looking for what I call a rational reason


gerry_obrion: to make the emotional decision. We have emotional side and a rational side of


gerry_obrion: our brains Right. And if we only give you the promise, Hey, our pizz’. Better,


gerry_obrion: our brain is looking for the proof. The, because, the ending of the sentence,


gerry_obrion: the rational logical side, I say, your brain needs a rational reason to make


gerry_obrion: the emotional decision. No, our pizza’ better because


gerry_obrion: take Papa Johns, for example, our pizza is better because we have better


gerry_obrion: ingredients. We never even look into what makes their ingredients better. But


gerry_obrion: they’ve finished the sentence of influence. That’s your. because, Question


gerry_obrion: three, your outcome, your promise question For what’s your? Because, what’s


gerry_obrion: your piece of proof And what we see, David in most marketing in most


gerry_obrion: companies, beat B be to C. Politicians, you name it, we don’t finish the


gerry_obrion: sentence of influence, we make you a promise, but we don’t give you any proof.


gerry_obrion: And if when we finish that sentence when we give you the proof, our products


gerry_obrion: are higher quality. That’s because


gerry_obrion: you can E, assure that you have better pizza. That’s because I was the brain


gerry_obrion: manager of Coor’s Light, I created one of the most famous becusses in the beer


gerry_obrion: industry. ever. Have you ever seen the bottle that turns blue when it’s cold


gerry_obrion: enough to drink? I launched.


david_horsager: this is. Yeah, that is an amazing story. I mean, I think it’s


david_horsager: let’s talk about this. I want an example story. Let’s talk about this


david_horsager: because you’ sitting there. You got these certain reasons people buy beer. I


david_horsager: wouldn’t be a good example. Here be cause I’m not a big beer fan. But, but


david_horsager: um, anyway, it’s what it’s call it


gerry_obrion: yeah, so so let me walk you through just really quickly. The framework. right.


gerry_obrion: So who are you going after? Well and beer? We’re going after twenty one to


gerry_obrion: twenty four year old men. Now people will say no, but older men drink beer.


gerry_obrion: women drink their. Yes, that’s all true. Seventy five percent of the beer in


gerry_obrion: the United States consumed by men, twenty one to twenty four year old men


gerry_obrion: drink eight times more light beer than all other men. They’re very high volume


gerry_obrion: users, so let’s just say we’re trying to influence men. Question one, twenty,


gerry_obrion: one, twenty four year old man, Question two, what are their insights? What do


gerry_obrion: they care about? We had eight insights about what people want from light beer.


gerry_obrion: They want it to be, Uh, you know, low calorie low carb. they wanted to be


gerry_obrion: socially acceptable, they wanted, they wanted to have funny advertising they


gerry_obrion: want. Uh, you know, Uh, all wants to be refreshing. They want it to be a good


gerry_obrion: value right, low price right, And then we found out they said Well, we want it


gerry_obrion: to be colder. We’re like great now. Just picture this, David.


gerry_obrion: Insight is we want our beer to be colder, Case of the outcome. Now the outcome


gerry_obrion: so your audience knows how to do this comes directly from your insights. If


gerry_obrion: the inside is we want colder beer. Our promise. our beer is colder.


gerry_obrion: Do you see how much that sounds like marketing fluff, and no one will believe


gerry_obrion: you. now. By the way, If I can make you believe that my beer is colder, you


gerry_obrion: guys can sell anything right.


david_horsager: two kids have


david_horsager: coming out of the same bridge, But I think what’s


david_horsager: interesting is basically what you said. The competitors met their light in


david_horsager: Budli. They basically had the other key insights covered.


gerry_obrion: yeah, so people say we wanted to taste Great Millerite from Nineteen seventy


gerry_obrion: Four has been saying Great taste less filling right. So they already had that


gerry_obrion: covered. Budlight was doing funny ads of dogs, frogs, spuds, Mackenzie horses,


gerry_obrion: All the funny things that they do funny ads socially party party beer. All


gerry_obrion: beer was being sold on emotion, but there was no pieces of proof right, so we


gerry_obrion: say. Oh, well, they say they want their beer to be colder. Well, how is our


gerry_obrion: beer going to be any colder than other beer in your same refrigerator? We


gerry_obrion: needed to find a. because, a piece of proof. So we created innovation after


gerry_obrion: innovation to give beer the same beer pieces of proof. The first thing we


gerry_obrion: launched was called the Frost brew liner. Can We put a blue liner inside the


gerry_obrion: can, David. The secret of the blue liner that’s inside the can is that every


gerry_obrion: can has a liner. They always have had one. They’re clear. Nobody knew they


gerry_obrion: were there. We turned ours blue and gave you proof that we were protecting the


gerry_obrion: refreshment of your beer. We sold an extra hundred million dollars of beer in


gerry_obrion: cans. The first year we made the blueliner. Then we came out with a bottle


gerry_obrion: that turns blue. The mountain’s turn blue when it’s cold enough to drink.


gerry_obrion: Notice that we didn’t uh, change the beer. We change the amount of information


gerry_obrion: you have about your beer. You know, when it’s cold enough to drink, People


gerry_obrion: want more certainty in their lives. Things like really important things. I


gerry_obrion: give my beer cold right. It is a big deal. when you’re drinking beer.


gerry_obrion: We created an incremental, two hundred and fifty million dollars a year in


gerry_obrion: sales. By finishing the sentence of influence. Your beer will be colder.


gerry_obrion: That’s our promise, because it’s got. It’ll be more refreshing because it’s


gerry_obrion: got a blue liner in the can. It’ll be cold enough to drink. That’s because the


gerry_obrion: mountains turn blue. when it’s cold enough to drink. We finished and gave you


gerry_obrion: pieces of proof in every business. Ninety five per cent of the companies I


gerry_obrion: work with be to bee companies. They’ve got a promise. they’ve got a product


gerry_obrion: that. It’s better. We need to give them the proof. And so that’s what


gerry_obrion: I. I spend my time doing with companies is four simple questions that change


gerry_obrion: everything. Now you asked about the why people say? Oh, I spent. I have c, e


gerry_obrion: Os. tell me this all the time. I spent all this time finding our Y. now,


gerry_obrion: David. I work in industries like attorneys, industrial moulds, technology


gerry_obrion: firms building out new technology. You name it. Do you know I work with a big


gerry_obrion: tire manufacture. Does any onee care why you sell tires?


gerry_obrion: Not one bit. They don’t care why you sell tires. They care what your tires do


gerry_obrion: for me, and what makes them different than every other tire on the road?


gerry_obrion: You’re intallars. What makes your installers of the tires different from all


gerry_obrion: the other installers that are out there? I’m not. I don’t really care why


gerry_obrion: you’re in a tre installer. I care what you do for me, and how you do that


gerry_obrion: differently, or better than every one else. the pieces of proof. So your’re


gerry_obrion: wise is the inspirational rallying cry behind why your company exists and why


gerry_obrion: people come to work every day Simon sent. It comes from the h. R side of the


gerry_obrion: business. It’s an inspirational, wonderful beautiful thing, especially when


gerry_obrion: you’re recruiting employees. But when it comes to people giving you the money


gerry_obrion: signing the twenty million dollar contract, they care about your, your proof.


gerry_obrion: You’re because. the reason why I believe you’re going to deliver this better


gerry_obrion: different than everyone else. That’s why they hand over the money. So that’s


gerry_obrion: the difference.


david_horsager: I. I think this is really interesting. so there is a four step P framework.


david_horsager: You know who you going after it is? I think number two the key insights and


david_horsager: I think some giving life to those. How do I find those key insights? I think


david_horsager: two think you said hopes and fears. But what are a couple of questions? I


david_horsager: would as to get the key insight


gerry_obrion: Yep, and people ask us all the time. How do you find out your insights in most


gerry_obrion: companies? D,


gerry_obrion: I came from Protctor Gamble. We drove everything based on insights from our


gerry_obrion: customers. We were famous for doing focus groups, deep dive, one on one


gerry_obrion: interviews, huge based surveys. The truth is the fastest easiest way to get


gerry_obrion: insights is talk to your customers. Become a listening organization. In my


gerry_obrion: book that’s coming out this spring. I do an interview with the guy that used


gerry_obrion: to be the C e o of the excavator division of Caterpillar,


gerry_obrion: And he tells this story about how he went around and no one was buying their


gerry_obrion: hybrid excavator, couldn’t figure out why he went to these c e os, these big


gerry_obrion: construction firms, and they told him everything they hated about his piece of


gerry_obrion: jug, hybrid excavator. He took it back to the engineering team, cancelled the


gerry_obrion: entire project. Uh, initiated a new project and it turned around the future of


gerry_obrion: the entire division of Caterpillar and the entire company


gerry_obrion: of Caterpillar, by listening


gerry_obrion: to customers frustrations, hopes, fears, um. what they want. more of what they


gerry_obrion: want less of,


gerry_obrion: And it’s not that hard to say. What do you like about our products? What do


gerry_obrion: you not like about our products? What do you like about our competitors


gerry_obrion: products? Here’s one forty, David. You want to get really good answers. Go to


gerry_obrion: a customer that used to work with you, left you and went to your competitor.


gerry_obrion: There’s where the answers


gerry_obrion: are. What did they say that got you to think they were a better solution for


gerry_obrion: you than we were. What mistakes did we make? What did they proactively do?


gerry_obrion: That was right. That convinced you. Um, and what are we? What are? What are we


gerry_obrion: doing that that? Now that you’re with them, that you wish that they were doing


gerry_obrion: insight, insight, insight. That’s what drives everything.


david_horsager: And that drives the. because,


gerry_obrion: Then, yeah, then yeah, then your. Your outcome is clear. Oh, you want this,


gerry_obrion: this, this and this, and what I generally do, David is what? What I do this


gerry_obrion: with the company. We’ll end up with thirty to sixty insights. Pieces of


gerry_obrion: information about what customers care about. Those will get narrowed to six to


gerry_obrion: ten that really drive decisions. Then you? That’s where you make your


gerry_obrion: outcomes. Your promises come from those top six, seven, eight insights. Now


gerry_obrion: they might be different throughout the sales process. The c e O might care


gerry_obrion: about something different than the C. f. O than the engineering team. There’s


gerry_obrion: all different insights you might be dealing with, but you take that and then


gerry_obrion: you turn it into a promise. What we hear you saying is you want this. We


gerry_obrion: promise this. That’s because you insert your piece of proof, Easy, easy, but a


gerry_obrion: lot of companies don’t do it


david_horsager: right, I can totally see it all over the place. Can you tell me a few


david_horsager: others? Can you give us a few more examples of like Papa Johns, Oh,


david_horsager: Thecause, we get it right away. Are there some other examples you can throw


david_horsager: out there? and I know everybody needs to know this by your people because


david_horsager: they buy you, because this is the book coming out this spring? Everybody


david_horsager: needs to be


david_horsager: looking for. We will be amplifying it and letting people know I love this


david_horsager: message. but by they bu, the bacause,


gerry_obrion: and you will start to see this everywhere. Wh, why I? You know if you’re


gerry_obrion: watching, you know football or whatever, and you’re watching T V ads. I know


gerry_obrion: everyone hates T V commercials, but watch one.


gerry_obrion: any T V commercial from a big major billion dollar brand will have pieces of


gerry_obrion: proof in it and you’ll see it all the time. Oh, because you know I. i. i, and


gerry_obrion: it’s great if you’ve ever seen like a a commercial for say, uh, uh, like


gerry_obrion: shampoo, and they’ve got the visual of how it’s going to go in and do. It’s


gerry_obrion: the little pieces of proof. Oh, there’s one Uh, that came out recently for


gerry_obrion: like an, an aspirin, or tylonolll, or something, And you’ll you’ll You might


gerry_obrion: even remember this. It says Because we have laser drilled holes. It like makes


gerry_obrion: your head it go away. laser drilled holes. Now, let me give you an example


gerry_obrion: that I just reminded me of myself of. I do this with my audiences. I say,


gerry_obrion: let’s take a low interest category. How about


gerry_obrion: floor mats for your car? Now, David. you’re an audience of one here. Can you


gerry_obrion: name any company that makes floormats for your car?


gerry_obrion: Okay, you can’t now in. I mean even tiny audiences. they always say one name


gerry_obrion: and all the all your listeners are reviewers are. S saying this right now,


gerry_obrion: Weather tech. Whether David weather tech, now you’ve heard of Weather Tech


gerry_obrion: floorliners, right, David?


gerry_obrion: Do you? And so we’re looking for there? Because now I want your audience to


gerry_obrion: think about this. Well, why would you buy and I asked my audiences this all


gerry_obrion: the time. Why would you buy a weather type floor liner versus any other floor


gerry_obrion: liner? And regularly they all say the same thing. Because, and if you’ve ever


gerry_obrion: seen one of their T V commercials, one hundred percent of their T V


gerry_obrion: commercials have this in them, they say, Because theyre laser measured


gerry_obrion: and you go. And And but what? Well, what’s the outcome? Well, the outcome is


gerry_obrion: it fits your car perfectly, so the snow and the mud stay in your car and not


gerry_obrion: on your carpet. That’s because weather tech flowor liners are laser measured


gerry_obrion: to fit your exact model of your car. Perfectly


gerry_obrion: okay. let’s be real, David. Do they really need to laser measure? No, they can


gerry_obrion: just get the speck from the car manufacture. I’m sure right, but no, that is


gerry_obrion: their piece of proof and they have built a massive company that now makes all


gerry_obrion: sorts of different products on one specific, because being because their laser


gerry_obrion: measured, and there’s example after example out there of people finishing the


gerry_obrion: sentence of influence, and a lot of times audiences will say well, Jerry do? I


gerry_obrion: just need one because, because it’s got a blue liner, because it’s laser


gerry_obrion: measured, Because we use better ingredients


gerry_obrion: in real companies that sell real things in complicated markets. You might have


gerry_obrion: six or eight different becauseuses that get used during your the course of


gerry_obrion: your sales process, depending on who you’re talking to. If you’re uh getting


gerry_obrion: out getting employees, you might have a few different becas. You might have


gerry_obrion: three or four, five different things that make your company special versus all


gerry_obrion: the other companies where people are considering Uh working. So what I want


gerry_obrion: the audience to think about is who are you influencing in the moment?


gerry_obrion: What are their insights and what is the pieces of proof that you can deliver


gerry_obrion: on those insights. Now that might vary throughout the course of your sales


gerry_obrion: process, There might be two or three things that person cares about and can


gerry_obrion: you deliver proof on each one of those things? The big mistake is making a


gerry_obrion: promise with no backup,


david_horsager: no proof.


gerry_obrion: no proof, because it sounds like fluff.


gerry_obrion: Ah, and so so you’re You’re in? I. I give this example of time and you’re in


gerry_obrion: the trust world. I mean, you’re the expert on trust.


david_horsager: Yeah, I got a little problem with you. You built the whole course thing


david_horsager: basically at, but it isn’t any cold than anywhere else. And yet you sold a


david_horsager: hundred million accent and it’s not real. It’s like you. Just you know.


gerry_obrion: I? Yeah, so, but the the worst thing you can say and people put this on their


gerry_obrion: websites. Hey, you should do business with us because you can trust us and


david_horsager: Yeah. No, just trust me that. Yeah, nobody trust the person that says. Just


gerry_obrion: your brain goes.


david_horsager: trust me


gerry_obrion: Just trust me Right until you give the piece of proof. Oh, you can trust us


gerry_obrion: because you know we special. I, I give an example of a tiny little auto repair


gerry_obrion: shop and here’s an example of how you can create A. because David tie little


gerry_obrion: lot, a repair shop. He opens up his doors and he serves in his sign. He


gerry_obrion: specializes David in two kinds of cars. The big sign says imports and


gerry_obrion: domestics, Yep, Brit’s pretty much everything right. And so he didn’t have


gerry_obrion: very many customers And then he realized the customers that were coming in the


gerry_obrion: neighborhood. A lot of them drove Audi and Volkswagens, so he ended up


gerry_obrion: specializing and narrowing his focus to say we specialize in Audiian


gerry_obrion: Volkswagens. Well then he got the big insight, he said Jerry. The big inside


gerry_obrion: is, there’s a lot of customers out there that don’t want to pay to go to the


gerry_obrion: dealership, but they do want to go to someone who specializes in their kind of


gerry_obrion: car. He tripled his business in eighteen months by narrowing his focus and it


gerry_obrion: get it. Get people are afraid of making a bad decision. And if you narrow your


gerry_obrion: focus and you do something specifically for them, Oh, you specialize in Audi


gerry_obrion: and Volkswagens, I can trust you. I believe you. I believe you can fix my car.


gerry_obrion: I believe you can probably fix my car more efficiently than someone else, and


gerry_obrion: I believe you’re going to be less pricey than the dealership specificity is an


gerry_obrion: of how you can create it because an increased trust and increased certainty


gerry_obrion: that you’re not making a bad call right. So


david_horsager: so good.


gerry_obrion: that’s Those are examples of how you can create a. Because, out of out of thin


gerry_obrion: air, really, and


david_horsager: Tell us the book titles going to be what the book titles going to be again.


gerry_obrion: it it’s go to be called, They buy. your. Because, closing the sale in a


gerry_obrion: crowded market, I work with a lot of industries that are very crowded. very


gerry_obrion: commodized. I mean plumbers, roofers,


gerry_obrion: home builders, um, techn. I mean technology. everyone is building the latest


gerry_obrion: greatest kind of technology Right. What makes yours? What’s makes your


gerry_obrion: identity verification different than the one down the down, the Internet,


gerry_obrion: right, Um, a law firms, I mean, everyone’s out there saying you know, we’ll


gerry_obrion: get you millions of dollars. What? Why am I going to pick one firm versus


gerry_obrion: another firm? Um, crowded crowded industries.


david_horsager: This is great and I’ve heard you before and seen this, and it just


david_horsager: brain bending for me. So there’s a lot more to us, but Jerry. We’re going to


david_horsager: get personal for a second before we do. Where can people find out about you?


gerry_obrion: What big brands? No Dot Com? So it’s a long, U. r. l. And if you type in


gerry_obrion: Jerry O’brion with an O n, o B r i o, n. I’m like the only one in the world.


gerry_obrion: So but what big brands know, Dot Com is my website. and uh, there’s videos


gerry_obrion: videos there. There’s a Bec video that. If you click on the little box on the


gerry_obrion: home page, Uh, it will take you through a five minute, um, live, uh session,


gerry_obrion: keenno, where I clipped out the because part because that’s what everyone


gerry_obrion: wants to see. I. I. I. I put it on Link, and it got like eleven thousand views


gerry_obrion: in the first week. I’m like. Wow, People really want


gerry_obrion: to know. This information is pretty fun.


david_horsager: well, you, you know, everybody can find out more than just go to trust the


david_horsager: Leader show Dot com. All kinds of show Notes from this episode links to Jerry


david_horsager: O’brion. We’re going to be seeing him more coming up. but let’s let’s uh,


david_horsager: just a a few minutes here on personal because I think I have a big belief.


david_horsager: Of course, all we deal with is is trust in leaders brands organizations


david_horsager: around the world, and most of the leaders I work with that are doing well


david_horsager: that are influencing others well, are also leading themselves well. So what


david_horsager: are you? What do you doing in Personally Mean you get. you got to be on some


david_horsager: big stage stages. You going to be in some significant boardrooms. What do


david_horsager: you? What do you do to lead yourself well personally, physically


david_horsager: emotionally. What do you know?


david_horsager: health wise? I don’t know.


gerry_obrion: yeah, so so you know I, I’ve been a runner since high school and all that


gerry_obrion: and physical and workout, But you know what has been great for me, David. and


gerry_obrion: you, uh, love animals and being out on the farm. And and so I have a little


gerry_obrion: property in Denver, Colorado. It’s in the metro, but it is a grandfathered


gerry_obrion: little horse property. but I don’t have horses. I’ve got four Nigerian dwarf


gerry_obrion: goats and I’ve got ducks and chickens and two behives and bunnies. that that


gerry_obrion: uh that run around the property. And uh, lately I learned here’s a piece of


gerry_obrion: trivia for you. Do you know what a group of rats is called? It’s called a y.


gerry_obrion: I. I had no idea I looked. It’s call a mischief. I have a mischief of pack


gerry_obrion: rats who have decided to live underneath my chicken feeding pens, so I’m


gerry_obrion: trying to figure out to do with them. So I have all these animals and what I


gerry_obrion: discovered especially drink covet. So I walk my goats and I live kind of in


gerry_obrion: the cities, But there’s dog, uh, trails and horse trails and all this stuff


gerry_obrion: all over the place. So I walk my goats and this is the funniest thing. I walk


gerry_obrion: them off leash. And you can see these people walking their dogs. They’re far


gerry_obrion: away and they’re looking. They’re going well, Gosh, Why is his animals awful


gerry_obrion: all off leash? And they get closer and they realize they’re not dogs. They’re


gerry_obrion: goats and then they’re like. I wonder if there’s a leash law for goats and


gerry_obrion: they nobody knows, And then they’re just so distracted by the fact that


gerry_obrion: there’s four goats walking along and then they all go Gosh. Your goats are


gerry_obrion: better off leash than my dog is on leash.


gerry_obrion: And so I spend a lot of time with my animals and walking with them and drink


gerry_obrion: covet. Especially, I realize it was so great for me. Like that connection to


gerry_obrion: animals is something I’ve discovered in the last few years and it has really


gerry_obrion: been emotionally a great balance for me.


david_horsager: fun. What about any? any resource? as far as input that you like to put in


david_horsager: either a good book lately or great podcast or something you’re putt in to


david_horsager: keep standing, fresh, relevant and capable. As far as you know what you’re


david_horsager: thinking about,


gerry_obrion: Well, you know what? I, um. I th. The truth is I don’t follow a lot of


gerry_obrion: podcasts and I get what I do from my c, e os that I’m I’m in in, literally


gerry_obrion: board roomoms every single week, and I’m get at keeping my pulse on the world


gerry_obrion: through people that that I’m interacting with, So I don’t spend a lot of time


gerry_obrion: uh with with listening to a lot of those things. I’m li. I’ve created a


gerry_obrion: listening organization of listening to the people on the front lines, and you


gerry_obrion: know and you, we’re all hearing the same things. How do I hire? How do I hire?


gerry_obrion: How do I hire


gerry_obrion: right? And that’s what’s going on right now for people. that. uh, so I don’t


gerry_obrion: have a great list of Re sources that I that I point people to.


david_horsager: No problem. So what about one big hope? Any, Any hope for the? let’s say the


david_horsager: next five or ten years for Jerry O’brion


gerry_obrion: Oh, yeah. well, I, the as I do. and this is something I’m going to ask for


gerry_obrion: David’s help with My framework has been honed for a decade. C, E O’s executive


gerry_obrion: sales teams are loving it and starting to implement it. Really, a many, many


gerry_obrion: companies are starting to implement the framework. I need to take that to the


gerry_obrion: next level so it can expand faster without me. So how my big hope is that I


gerry_obrion: get. I. The framework gets beyond me. Other people can start to implement and


gerry_obrion: help companies do it. Because it. it’s working and now I wanted to expand


gerry_obrion: beyond me. That’s that’s the last thing I want to do in my career. I want to


gerry_obrion: get this out there so everybody can use it and implement it because it works


gerry_obrion: and I don’t need to be the one to


david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm,


gerry_obrion: do it. I needed to be to live a life beyond Jerry O’brion. That’s my hope.


david_horsager: that’s been mine for two decades on trust Right, how


david_horsager: do we get the Pi framework and trust to go much beyond me And it’s been fun


david_horsager: to see that start to happen around the world. So


david_horsager: last question,


david_horsager: Remember trust the Leader show Dot com For the show, notes all the links to


david_horsager: Jerry’s cite, and exactly how to spell his name correctly,


david_horsager: and this a little bit more about this framework. So, last question it, the


david_horsager: trusted leader show who is the leader you trust and why?


gerry_obrion: I’m going to give you someone off the beaten path, someone that


gerry_obrion: most people probably haven’t heard of when I graduated from undergrad


gerry_obrion: University of Wisconsin. My first job ever was in in real estate appraisal, I


gerry_obrion: appraised manufacturing facilities all over the country, and the gentleman who


gerry_obrion: was the president of the company. His name is Andy Groonick. He was the kind


gerry_obrion: of leader who cared You knew he cared about you


gerry_obrion: about the individual about the person.


david_horsager: How do you know? how do you know?


gerry_obrion: Well, and it turns out that it’s really true because I worked for his company


gerry_obrion: for four years and I still have a relationship with him. In fact, he is a


gerry_obrion: leader that is, has gone beyond his original. He eventually sold the company


gerry_obrion: in La. Maybe three years ago, whatever the number of years goes, he ran for


gerry_obrion: governor for the state of Wisconsin,


gerry_obrion: And you know there was, you know, fifteen people in the primaries and he


gerry_obrion: didn’t make it all the way through to the end, But he would be a great leader


gerry_obrion: because he’s a leader beyond


gerry_obrion: it, it’s about the people and the things that matter. It’s not a. It wasn’t


gerry_obrion: never about the only about the money. it wasn’t about the business, it was


gerry_obrion: more about. I want to help you grow, and when I, I remember the day I told him


gerry_obrion: I was leaving the company and he couldn’t have been happier for me to go off


gerry_obrion: and go to business school and go to the next adventure. And he stayed in touch


gerry_obrion: with me for my whole life.


david_horsager: Hm, hm, hm, Hm,


gerry_obrion: A guy who’s the president of a company, the first one that ever gave you the


gerry_obrion: Yep, you get to work here, the first job straight out of school. That’s the


gerry_obrion: kind of leader I want to be. Somebody really actually cares about the people


gerry_obrion: and stays in touch with him. And it’s for real. It’s not just. Oh, you were


gerry_obrion: great while


david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm, Mhm,


gerry_obrion: you were here, but now I don’t care.


david_horsager: that is a good word. Well, Jerry O’brion thank you for being my friend.


david_horsager: Thanks for being on the show today. That has been the trusted leaders show


david_horsager: until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 62: 2021 Best Of Moments Of The Trusted Leader Show

In this episode, join Kent Svenson, producer of The Trusted Leader Show, as he takes you through some of the best moments from the past year on The Trusted Leader Show.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Links To Episodes Mentioned In The Episode:
Ep. 20 with Horst Schulze: https://apple.co/32cxg0E
Ep. 46 with M. Gasby Brown: https://apple.co/3yxQxpC
Ep. 50 with Jay Baer: https://apple.co/3E7MoK9
Ep. 22 with Susan Sly: https://apple.co/3qoa8Fd
Ep. 25 with Bob Stromberg: https://apple.co/3E4Exx4
Ep. 59 with Ryan Leak: https://apple.co/3q8ytOO
Ep. 43 with Cheryl Bachelder: https://apple.co/3yCCWxp
Ep. 42 with Bobby Herrera: https://apple.co/3sdqgf3

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: The welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m your host, David Horsager. Join me as I sit down with influential leaders from around the world to discuss why leaders and organizations fail top tactics for high performance and how you can become an even more trusted leader.


Kent Svenson: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And today we have a very special episode for you. This is the 62nd and last episode of 2021. We have thoroughly enjoyed sharing each of these 62 episodes with you. We have people be listening from all over the world across almost 70 countries, 50 states and six continents. And by the way, if you or someone you know, is gonna be going to Antarctica, we would love to make it seven outta seven continents. But seriously though, on behalf of David, myself, and the entire team, we just wanna say, thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing each of these episodes with your family, with your friends, your employees, customers, and clients. Thank you for reviewing the show and thank you for all of your feedback and comments. We could not do this without you.


Kent Svenson: So thank you. But as this is the last episode of 2021, we thought it’d be fun to take a quick look back on some of the best moments from the year. So we put together a compilation of best moments from some of our most popular episodes and from some of the episodes we’ve gotten the most feedback and comments on and put it together in a compilation for you. So sit back, relax and enjoy a compilation of best moments from the 2021, the trusted leader show of first, we have Horst Schulze from episode 20, where he talks about the three universal expectations of the customer.


David Horsager: You talk about three universals. Tell us about those.


Horst Schulze: Well, the, the, the expectation of the customer, I guess that’s what we talk about. Yeah. The, well, yes, let’s say universal the market. You can look at the market over there. What is a market of potential market? And you, there are two or three things for sure they want, so you better have processes and systems on measurements if you deliver it. And that’s a subconscious expectation, like what you have anybody has, you want the product to be defect free. You know, te I always use an example of bottle of water. If you buy a bottle of water, you don’t want anything to swim in there. You expect, subconsciously is defect free. Number two, very important, by the way, and you have to underline it 10 times. It’s timeliness. Everything today is very important that your timely responses that you, you, you want that bottle of water when you want it.


Horst Schulze: And you want an immediate answer to your email, et cetera, that timeliness. So not effect timeliness, and number three, what you want the want, the people that give it to you, the bottle of water or whatever it is to be nice to you to care for you. Now, here’s the, here’s the crazy thing. I mean, and I, and why businesses don’t get that? The greatest driver of eventual satisfaction, even loyalty is the caring piece, which means you have to, you have to process and make sure that there’s excellence and relationship between your employees, between you and those that buy from you. The, the product is not creating loyalty. Loyalty is nothing but trust. They trust you. They they’re three times of customer. Very first I said, they wanna distrust you, who are, who are, uh, who are terrorist against your company. Now they going social media, did whatever destroy you. Then the loyal done it, the satisfied one, they got night next door. If they, they think there’s a better deal. And then there’s the one that are loyal to you. Why they loyal, they’re trusting you and trust is not created with a product is created with the relationship moment.


David Horsager: Only the relationship.


Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 46, we have M Gasby Brown, where she talks about the importance of racial literacy, humility, and sustainability in bringing about change and diversity that allows each of us to be able to enjoy the great benefits of diversity.


David Horsager: Let’s jump to DE&I, it’s a big topic, DEI and justice, some say in belonging the, these days, but diversity equity inclusion. Um, you know, we talk about trust and it’s you, you can’t, it seems like you can’t have the best kind. At least there was a, there was a study on diversity, uh, har massive Harvard Putnam study that showed kind of diversity that diversity, many kinds on its own tends to pit people against each other, unless you increase trust. So we’re all about how do we increase trust to get the best of that? We know there, you know, we know there is greatness in diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, justice. So how do we increase trust, uh, so that we away the best of this beautiful array of diversity, but I’d like to talk to you, how do you, how do you tackle the E and I in a way, or how can we as leaders maybe even think differently about it so that we increase trust and get the best of diversity?


M. Gasby Brown: Boy, that’s a great question, David. Um, the onus is really more on the learn than the learn it in this case, in my mind. And so it really comes down to, and I will deal with the racial part of it because there’s so many moving parts to de DEI and justice. Uh, there needs to be, uh, racial literacy, a curiosity that, uh, to learn and openness to learn and to be a lifelong learner about the various historical issues that have led us to where we are now with regard to racial equity, there needs to also be in my mind, I kind of deal with three RS, RS, and CS, and what have you. But another R would be, uh, racial humility. There are some people who feel that they have read a few books and they have watched a couple of movies and documentaries, and now they know all they need to know. And they maybe attended a couple of DEI trainings and they know they feel that they know all there is to know about, uh, racial reckoning and what’s going on, but that is the wrong attitude. The attitude has to be humility where you are putting yourselves in the position to always be open to learning new things and more. And then the, the racial sustainability that you’re in this for the long haul. This is not just a flash point in history, but this is an opportunity


Kent Svenson: Next up from 50, we have Jay Baer where he talks about why word of mouth is critical for business growth and why every business needs to have a word of mouth strategy.


Jay Baer: Dave, the, the premise is this. We trust people more than we trust any leader or organization or government or media. Um, we trust each other most. And we always have going all the way back to caveman days where somebody said, well, who, which caveman sells the sharpest? You know, arrowheads like, well, you know, glog, he’s the man, right? I mean, it’s the, it’s the recommendations from, from your peers are the ones that carry the most weight and the fundamental premise of the book. And while it’s really written for, for a, a business kind of company, uh, perspective, it applies to individuals and, and, and speakers and parents and spouses as well. The premise is that the best way to grow any business or any audience or trust is for your customers to do that growing for you. And I think we all know that to be true, right?


Jay Baer: Like if you ask businesses, Hey, how important is word of mouth to your business? They will all say important all of them yet. And this part is the thing that makes this book so important. Nobody has an actual strategy to do it. That the actual data from John Jan is that fewer than 1% of all businesses have an actual word of mouth strategy, fewer than 1% yet you’ve got a strategy for everything else, right? You got a, you got a, a leadership strategy, a trust strategy. If you follow Dave and you should, you’ve got a PR strategy, crisis strategy, hiring strategy, you know, diversity strategy, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, marketing strategy, of course, social media strategy. But the one thing you don’t have a strategy for is perhaps the most important thing at all of all, which is why should people tell your story?


David Horsager: I think the most, something really interesting that seems like almost a, a contradiction at first, we’ve got this guy, one of the, one of the most sought after thought leaders in the world on digital and marketing mm-hmm and you hear so much, you know, Shaza in those spaces and hear, Jay bear is saying, it is all about word of mouth. That’s the, as much as you’ve done in the space of digital, and by the way, you can use digital. Uh, but it, this whole, this whole piece of kind of what I loved about it is that it got back to truth, to authenticity, to know what are real people really saying, not, um, we did it, you know, in our study, we found that continually like reviews online reviews are tanking because people don’t trust them. Whereas, uh, what you hear from someone specifically that, you know, is that trust is going up immensely. And I, I think that’s just, it it’s really interesting in this space, right? Yeah.


Jay Baer: You’re exactly right. There is more, uh, online word of mouth now, uh, than ever before, because of social media, the prevalence of ratings and review sites, et cetera. So, so mathematically, the volume of online word of mouth is higher, especially in the pandemic, because there’s just not as many occasions for offline word of mouth than there, uh, compared to pre pandemic, however, the impact of offline word of mouth, uh, somebody you actually know at your kid’s soccer game, or what have you is higher because you have that existing relationship with the person who was passing the story along. And, and people ask me a lot, Dave, like, well, okay, I don’t get this. If, if businesses know that word of mouth is important, how is it then that they don’t have a strategy for it? Like what, I mean, you know, this it’s 20, 22, almost like, you know, word of mouth’s been around for thousands of years.


Jay Baer: How is it that people don’t have a strategy? And, and here’s why almost every business or leader makes the same mistake. And the mistake is believing that competency creates conversation. That if you run a good organization or you are trusted, and you’re good at execution, that that naturally people will notice that and will talk about it. And that seems right on paper. It does, but it’s not actually right in the real world because that’s not how human beings behave. Every person in the world, including you and me and everybody tuning in is wired the same way. We are wired to discuss things that are different and ignore things that are expected.


Jay Baer: Let me tell you about this experience I had last night, it was perfectly adequate said nobody in history, right? If I went over here and inflict the switch and these lights went off in my office, I wouldn’t be like, Dave, you won’t believe what happened when I hit these, the switch, the lights went off. You know why? Because that’s how lights work. And we all know that. So there, isn’t a story there. Word of mouth is just a story and you being good at your job. Isn’t a story because that’s what they expect, right? That’s why it’s really, really hard for restaurants, for example, to create word of mouth around food quality and sort of tastiness, unless it’s just a beyond, beyond crazy, because guess what? If you’re buying a meal and a restaurant, you expect it to be good. That’s the whole point, right? So you do, don’t get conversational credit for doing exactly what customers expect you to do. And that’s the mistake. Everybody makes. They just focus on competency, which is important. Don’t get me wrong. Competency keeps your customers, but competency doesn’t create stories cuz it’s just like, yeah, of course they do that. Right? Sure.


Anne Engstrom: Hey everyone, a quick interruption here to share some big news, April 12th, through the 14th, you are invited to the trusted leader summit. What makes a powerful event is bringing together amazing people in a way that actually makes an impact in the world. We’re talking about a get together that is packed with immediately useful content. You’ll hear from top leaders like John Foley, the former lead solo pilot for the blue angels, Harvard profess us are Allison Shapira and more incredible global experts. Get your tickets before they’re gone at trusted leaders, summit.com and join us in becoming even more trusted leaders. We can’t wait to see you there.


Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 22, we have Susan Sly where she talks about how to lock in the desire to actually build a new habit.


David Horsager: So take, let’s go back to habits. One step, you know, how do you build a new one? Like if you’re, if you’re starting with a new habit, like feeling like, well, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna start running every day, but then they get to tomorrow and it doesn’t become a habit. As you know, um, most people wouldn’t do what you did. They’re gassed after a hundred yards and they went back to bed the next day. So breaking through and building a new habit, any tips?


Susan Sly: Sure. That’s a, an amazing question. It’s it really starts with desire and, and here are my tips for locking, uh, you know, really locking down that desire. It’s number one is ask yourself the question precisely, what is the habit? Define it. Clearly I wanna run for 30 minutes a day, not I wanna running, um, you know, I’ll chase you down the street, you’ll start running, but it might not become a habit. Like be very clear. Number two is what is the benefit to you of developing this habit and, and list as many as you can. And then number three is what is the detriment? If you don’t develop the habit and then number four is who in your life is suffering because you don’t have this habit.


Susan Sly: And then the fifth thing is what will this habit mean to you? Five or 10 years down the road? Because it’s the compound of fact like Darren Hardy talks about. So I’ll give you an example. So if viewers can see me, I’ve got, in my hand, it’s a glass made the USA glass bottle. It’s empty of groupy green stuff. So last year I decided David I’m like, you know what? I need to have more fresh fruits and vegetables. The framing he study, um, is the longest study done on cardiovascular health. But as an ancillary, um, finding, they found that if you consume five to seven servings of fresh fruits and vegetables a day, it reduces your risk of cancer, uh, all kinds by 70%. So I was going through my day, eating, you know, eating, having protein shakes and, you know, raw all and all that good stuff.


Susan Sly: But I realized I’m like, oh my gosh, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. So I decided what I was gonna do on Sunday is I was gonna take, um, you know, greens. I was gonna take organic celery, lemon juice in the vitamin mix. I was gonna mix this all up and I was gonna, um, fill five jars one for every day of the week. And, um, I was gonna grab them and, and that’s what I did now. It was really inconvenient because I had to like dedicate that time on Sunday to making this Gloo green drink. And then the second thing was I had to figure out a way to make this a habit that it was so convenient that I had no excuse, like even running outta my house to my office. I could just grab it outta the fridge and I, I could go. So that was a habit I developed last year. And now it’s so ingrained in me because I’m going, the detriment is the benefit is I reduce my risk of cancer. And then the detriment is, if I don’t do this, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe I could get cancer. Right. And you think about all the people in my life that benefit. That’s just an example.


David Horsager: I love it. Great, great five step process.


Kent Svenson: Next from episode 25, we have Bob Stromberg where he talks about the two words that describe creativity and why all of us can be creative.


David Horsager: Tell us about this. How did you become so creative and, uh, give us a little window into that slice of your life.


Bob Stromberg: Five or six years ago. Um, uh, well, it was, it was September 15th of, uh, 2015. I was right here in the basement of this house, digging through some boxes of books and, uh, looking for some books. And I found some old work calendars, a pile of ’em about like this and the Earl one went back to 1975. And I thought to myself, I wonder what I was doing on September 15th, 2015, 40 years to the date earlier. And so I opened it up at to 2015, I mean to two to 1975, which was 40 years earlier. And there was my first professional booking with my friend, Michael. And, uh, I CA I came upstairs. I said to my wife, Judy, Judy, this is like a celebration. I mean, the anniversary we should be celebrating. And she said, huh. And that was the extent of the celebration right there.


Bob Stromberg: That was . That was all there was. But I, that got me thinking when I realized, oh my goodness, I have done this. Full-time self-employed never had a job, never had an employer who paid, well, I thousands of them, but never, never an employer that I was working for steadily. Uh, how have I done that? And I realized that I have been utilizing this thing called creativity. And I also realized I had never given a lot of thought to what it actually is and how it works. And I started thinking about all these plays that I had written all recently, uh, been writing a screenplay and the comedy material and lots and lots of music that I’ve written through the years, all these creative things, what do they have in common? Where did they come from? How did they come to be? And I realized that, and this took a, this took a number of months of thinking about this, really working through it.


Bob Stromberg: I realized that every thing that I have created came from a place and through a process and the place that the place that these things came from, the songs, the plays, the comedy routines, the bits, the one liners, they came from what I call my creative reservoir, which you have as well. And they came through a process, uh, and the process is called creativity. And I believe that, uh, that there are two words. You, you need two words to really describe what creativity actually is. And I believe that two words are gift and craft. Usually we think of creativity being a gift. People say, oh, I couldn’t be creative. My, my brother was, is sore. He really had a gift of creativity, but I just never had that. Um, and, and I say, well, you, uh, you, you had something because when you were a child, you demonstrate it that here’s the deal.


Bob Stromberg: I really believe that the gift, you, you you’re born with something creativity, but you’re not born creative. Here’s what I think the gift is David. The gift that, that we are all born with, all of us is a, a desire and a capacity to experience creativity. So I, we come out of the womb that way with a desire and a capacity to experience it. And we open up that gift immediately when we’re born. I mean, the first thing that you within weeks, you’re, you’re learning that you can roll from. I don’t know if it’s weeks, like can’t remember, it’s been so long since my kids, even my grandkids were that small. So I thought you were gonna say, it’s been so long since you rolled over for the first time. that’s right. But to roll from your back to your front boy, that was exciting.


Bob Stromberg: You couldn’t wait to do that. It’s a little scary to do that. You can see, you can see the baby’s eyes just, did I just do that? That’s experience in creativity, getting up on your knees and rocking back and forth. Oh boy, that’s fun. And then piling up blocks at some point, and then knocking ’em over. It, it, all of this was play or, or, uh, taking that Cray and rubbing it across the paper, making those marks on the paper was so fun or is it was the case in my family with our four year old, who is, who is now a remarkable artist and was then to take that pink magic marker and coloring in all color in all the, the white flowers on mom and dad’s new couch. That was an exciting, that was an exciting day at our, our family. All of this was what we refer to and what psychologists call and, and child development people call play.


Bob Stromberg: It was just play, but it was all creativity. It was all creative, incredible, um, um, demonstration of creativity. So the question is, well, where does that go? Because so many people say, I’m, I’m not creative. I couldn’t create anything. I mean, I’m, I have no idea what I would do. I can’t create anything. You know, I’m just not a creative person you used to be. So where did it go? And I believe, um, and, and I, I, I believe it gets educated right out of us in the Western world. I think it’s just, it’s just the downside of our educational system. A lot of good things about our educational system, but not in this regard of creativity, because in school we learn very early on when we’re taking a test or a quiz or an exam, we have to write in, in the right word, in the fill in the blank, it’s gotta be the right word.


Bob Stromberg: Or if it’s a multiple choice, you have to, you have to circle the right answer. Or if you, if it’s a math problem, you have to add those numbers all up and divide it and do this and, and the POTUS of whatever. And it’s gotta be to down to the, down to the right decimal point in number. It’s gotta be perfect. And if it’s not, it gets a big red mark on it. And we deal with our feelings about, uh, about getting those red marks on our paper. And we very early, um, realize, um, that were not as creative as we used to be. Things are not as fun as they used to be. Creativity does not work that way. Creativity is not about finding the right answer. Creativity is about trying many, many potential answers. Some of them, which are really not good answers at all, but to try them, um, and something else comes out of it.


Bob Stromberg: Uh, you, you almost can’t fail with creativity because you’re not looking at the outcome. You’re looking at the process. So to, to engage in the process, um, even if it’s to try lots of things. In other words, you don’t need to get the one right answer. So therefore, I think there’s another word. This necess sir, gift is the first one. I think the other word to describe what creativity is and how it works. Then the other important word is craft. Creativity is a craft. It’s a process that you go through. And as you go through this process, you begin to, this is a wonderful side benefit. You begin to fill up your creative reservoir. So there’s, there’s always something there you don’t need to worry about. Writer’s block. You don’t need to worry about not being able. What am I gonna do now? It’s all, you’ve got lots of stuff ready to go. And, but you need to understand what the process is.


Kent Svenson: Next up from episode 59, we have Ryan Leak where he talks about why all of us should be chasing failure.


David Horsager: You know, if I look at your life and what you’re about, you’ve done some amazing things, but it is marked by this risk, taking this willingness to chase failure. And I love what you say in the book. Even basically the, the only people you admire, the people you love, the people you look up to, they all failed. And yet we’re all sitting here thinking we wanna get around the failure. We wanna, and, and you kind of make this, this point of let’s chase failure. If we wanna be like that.


Ryan Leak: Absolutely. You just, I think we all, if let’s say we’re a songwriter, we all wanna write a hit song. You only wanna write hits, but you gotta write some bad songs to get a hit song. You gotta miss some shots to make some shots. I mean, it’s all a part of, it’s all a part of the process. No matter anybody in this world that wants to do anything, uh, they have to try things. And I think the last three years, somebody said this to me the other day, they said, I’m not sure if I’m ready for my junior of COVID. And I just thought, has it been that long? It really has. But I’d like to say the last three years have really taught us that if, if you’re not innovating, if you are not thinking outside the box, you may not survive in this marketplace that, that we work in because things are constantly changing. And most people don’t like change. And COVID 19 did not ask us for permission. Right? And so I think people now more than ever have to be willing to try some things and take some risk.


Kent Svenson: Next from episode 43, we have Cheryl Bachelder, where she talks about why we should be training leaders to be stewards.


David Horsager: I, I picked this up in, in your book and it’s a subtlety E but it, it, it’s not, I’m gonna get into some principles in the book, but it’s a subtlety of how you say things that made me just so impressed with who you are and the word, um, you said it already, oh, you said stewards. It’s it’s, it’s not this feeling of these are the people I lead. It’s. These are the people. In fact, you said in the book several times, I can’t remember the wording, but something like these are the per people I’m, I’m charged with leading, or I’m I’m given to lead, or I’m, I’m kind of called to steward and it’s, it’s like the investor I’m, we’re there to steward. We’re not that it’s, it’s, it’s such a different feel of humility. And I, I know you’ve been influenced by, uh, you said it there with Collins level five with a, you know, humility with ambition, but, you know, tell us where that, that humility came from. That seems genuine. And that is something I see missing in the leaders. I walk, you know, alongside that I’m consulting or working with.


Cheryl Bachelder: Well, I, I agree, uh, it’s largely absent. It’s culturally absent to, um, honor and uphold, uh, stewardship as a leadership trait, in fact, so much. So today I was being interviewed by a large, big four, um, accounting firm that you would recognize then on the subject of ESG, uh, which one of the aspects of ESG is governance in board rooms. And he said, what thing are we not measuring in the boardroom that we should be measuring? And I said, you should be measuring the steward. The development of leaders as stewards and reason is because we have very few people with that mindset. And yet we’re entrusting huge groups of people and huge amounts of resources to leaders in large companies or institutions, any institution you pick, right? And there’s no training up of stewardship, belief, values in behaviors, right. And our leaders. So why are we surprised that they don’t steward it?


Cheryl Bachelder: Well, why are we surprised that they don’t create an environment where people feel treated with dignity? We shouldn’t be surprised we’re not training it up. Uh, we’re not expecting it. We’re not measuring it. Like we do everything else in the business world. Right. And so I, I use the word entrusted. I believe people and resources have been tr entrusted to my care as a leader. And my responsibility is to steward them well. Um, and if I steward them, well, maybe I should get paid well and do well in life, but that’s not the motive. The, the motive is I, I am a leader who, uh, has been entrusted with much and, and should steward it to its best possible outcome. I’m not in control of everything so far. Right. But I should steward best I can, uh, to a better outcome. So what does that look like in practice?


Cheryl Bachelder: I think it’s real important to say, how do you do that? Not just philosophy. Um, and my whole premise that Popeyes that the, that the book is written around is what if we led this company as if the franchise owner who invested in the store, the people, the community was the center of the universe. And we were to take care of them and set them up for success. And I said, a million times we will measure our success by their success. That’s the only measure of my team’s success is whether those franchise owners are more prosperous when we leave than when we got here. Um, now why is that rocket science? I really wonder, right. I mean, it is a business model. They need to perform well to continue to invest in the business, to build more units or to innovate or all those ways that we invest. So why wouldn’t I as a leader, think of them as the point of service, the point of stewardship, um, but you know, franchisees in many, many organizations would tell you they are not valued. They are not created with respect their, um, prosperity’s not measured as a measure of the business success. I mean, I, I don’t get it.


Kent Svenson: And lastly, from episode 42, we have Bobby Herrera who talks about why we should always be giving more. Then we take.


David Horsager: Number three. I could pause on each of these and be, uh, moved and thinking of my, my own I’m processing as I have before with your work. But am I giving more than I’m taking?


Bobby Herrera: I think probably the best way to describe that is, uh, you know, I’m gonna borrow a quote from a gentleman whose work I’ve studied quite a bit, um, is that Jesuit priest name, Anthony Demme, uh, very, very wise, you know, spiritual and, um, uh, you know, teacher of, of just good principles. And, you know, he has a metaphor that he uses, you know, every day the son comes out and it shines and not once does a son ever say to the earth you owe me, it just gives. And, you know, I believe that one of the single most important characteristics in leadership and this applies to fatherhood to friendship is just giving more than you take. You know, you know, when you truly give, you don’t wait for a third act, you know, you give the person receives. And too often, I believe, you know, we wait for a third act, we keep a scorecard, or we want something in return, but that’s not really giving, you know, our cup should be full by shining. And just knowing that in giving, there are two acts giving and receiving. And when you learn to eliminate that third act, I think that’s when you’re really living and appreciating the power of giving.


Kent Svenson: That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the show notes and information on anything mentioned in today’s episode. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcast or your favorite podcast platform as this is a great way to help support the show and to help other people to discover it again on behalf of David, myself, and the entire team. We just wanna say, thank you for being a part of the trusted leader show. We can’t wait to share with you the incredible guest we have lined up for 2022, but in the meantime, thank you for being a part of the show, have a happy new year. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 61: Meridith Elliott Powell on Turning Uncertainty Into An Advantage

In this episode, David sits down with Meridith Elliott Powell, Award-Winning Author, Keynote Speaker, and Business Strategist, to discuss how to turn uncertainty into a competitive advantage.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Meridith’s Bio:
Voted one of the Top 15 Business Growth Experts to watch by Currency Fair, Meridith Elliott Powell is an award-winning author, keynote speaker and business strategist. With a background in corporate sales and leadership, her career expands over several industries including banking, healthcare and finance. Meridith worked her way up from an entry-level position to earn her seat at the C-Suite table. She is Certified Speaking Professional, a designation held by less than twelve percent of professional speakers, and a member of the prestigious Forbes Coaching Council.

She has a cutting-edge message, rooted in real-life examples and real-world knowledge. She is the author of four books, including “Winning In The Trust & Value Economy” (a finalist in the USA Best Book Awards) and her latest “Own It: Redefining Responsibility – Stories of Power, Freedom & Purpose” about how to build cultures the inspire ownership at every level to create profits at every turn. Meridith writes, speaks and is passionate about helping her clients understand everything they need to know about how to make this economy start working for them.

High energy and highly interactive, Meridith’s keynote will help leaders and business owners learn the new rules of success today. Including how today’s economy has changed, how that has changed today’s customers and employees, and specifically how that impacts your business.

In her highly engaging keynote-speaking sessions, Meridith shows her audiences how to attract more business, retain top talent, and leap into position to win in this new economy. No walking on coals, no breaking boards, just real-life strategies you can put into place first thing Monday morning.

Meridith’s Links:
Website: https://meridithelliottpowell.com/
“Thrive” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lIcyfZ
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meridithelliottpowell/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/meridithelliottpowell/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/meridithpowell?lang=en
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Key Quotes:
1. “We’re always waiting for the ball to drop.”
2. “When obstacles get in front of you, if you can’t see beyond the obstacle, you get stuck.”
3. “It’s a myth that there isn’t opportunity out there. There’s so much opportunity.”
4. “In an uncertain marketplace business grows from the inside out.”
5. “You can’t attract new business until you understand the current problems your existing customers have.”
6. “We need to stop seeing responsibility as a negative and see it for the gift that it is.”
7. “Responsibility is a gift. It’s not a burden.”
8. “Build your network. It will change your life.”
9. “Confidence is a humble belief in yourself.”
10. “Confidence is built through progress not through the end result.”
11. “Who you surround yourself with is everything.”
12. “You’ve got to practice what you preach.”
13. “You give people education you can change their lives.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Thrive” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lIcyfZ
“Own It” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://amzn.to/3lLzo6N
“Who Comes Next?” by Meridith Elliott Powell and Mary C. Kelly PhD: https://amzn.to/3IyxfFe
“The Best Sales Book Ever” by Meridith Elliott Powell and Connie Podesta: https://amzn.to/3dD8glD
“The Confidence Plan” by Meridith Elliott Powell: https://bit.ly/confidenceplan
“I Love Capitalism!” by Ken Langone: https://amzn.to/304JqrM

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

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Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. It’s David Horsager and I am thrilled


david_horsager: to have with us today, Meridith Elliott Powell, Thank you for being with us


meridith_elliott_powell: I’m excited to be. You’re ready for this conversation.


david_horsager: All right. Well me, you know, you’ve been an expert to so many. I was even


david_horsager: reading your top fifteen business growth expert. You are? I know you’re an


david_horsager: award winning author. I know your a word winning speaker. I know some of the


david_horsager: people you can have been seen on N B C. and you’ve got clients that are just


david_horsager: amazing, but let’s go back a little bit. Wh. Where did some of this come


david_horsager: from? And then I’m excited to jump into a specially your newest book, But


david_horsager: you know, tell us a little bit about you that we don’t know.


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, so a little bit about my journey. You know, I’ve had kind of


meridith_elliott_powell: a crazy career. A lot of people get out of college. know exactly


meridith_elliott_powell: what they want to do. I was not that person and my background


meridith_elliott_powell: includes travel and tourism, Uh, financial services and health


meridith_elliott_powell: care, and I never thought my career made a lot of sense That had


meridith_elliott_powell: worked in so many different industries until I was actually being


meridith_elliott_powell: interviewed one day and somebody said, Kind of walk us through your


meridith_elliott_powell: journey. And what I realzed was I enter companies when they’ going


meridith_elliott_powell: through massive disruption. I got into travel in tourism. when a


meridith_elliott_powell: hurricane had wiped out a community. I got into health care when


meridith_elliott_powell: huge cutbacks were coming from the government and I got into


meridith_elliott_powell: financial services when regulation hit, so where most people run


meridith_elliott_powell: away from uncertainty, I tend to run in to it, so I like disruption


meridith_elliott_powell: and change, and that kind of landed me where I am and helping


meridith_elliott_powell: companies really navigate those challenges


david_horsager: You know that gets us into this book and you’ve authored many books. but


david_horsager: this new book thrive strategies to turn uncertainty to competive advantage,


david_horsager: And I even talk about a formula for making uncertainty your competitive or


david_horsager: strategic strategic advantage. I think Hey people want to know right now what


david_horsager: I? I. I’ve you know, been getting blown away by volatility, uncertainty and


david_horsager: complexity and all this change, and I’m overwhelmed. You’re saying it can be


david_horsager: a strategic advantage? What do you mean?


meridith_elliott_powell: well for those exact reasons, you know, a couple years ago, long


meridith_elliott_powell: before we ever heard about Cove, that it was ever on the radar, I


meridith_elliott_powell: kind of became obsessed with uncertainty because every business


meridith_elliott_powell: leader I would talk to was. Saying the same thing, business is


meridith_elliott_powell: good, business is great. we’ having our best year on record. but O,


meridith_elliott_powell: this uncertainty like we always waiting for the ball to drop for


meridith_elliott_powell: the bottom to fall out. And I just started to think why does


meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty and change have to be a negative, and what could happen


meridith_elliott_powell: in your organization if you could be the leader who could create a


meridith_elliott_powell: team who believed that disruption was exactly what you needed to


meridith_elliott_powell: propel and go to another level, And that kind of turned me on. I


meridith_elliott_powell: wanted to answer that question and I just started studying


meridith_elliott_powell: organizations and businesses that had been around for at least two


meridith_elliott_powell: hundred and fifty years, and from all that research I created a


meridith_elliott_powell: nine step proven formula for what it takes to navigate any level of


meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty, whether it’s as tiny as putting in a new Crm or is as


meridith_elliott_powell: big as Uh. going through the Delta variant.


david_horsager: let’s jump into that? I mean, what are? where do we start? We’ve got this


david_horsager: uncertainty. We even have uncertainty before we even know it’s a a covet


david_horsager: right there. There’s uncertainty before we even know. There’s uh


david_horsager: uncertainty. Almost so. how do we? how do we deal that? We talk a lot about


david_horsager: building trust in the midst of change. How we do it. It’s not an easy thing,


david_horsager: but it’s critical. so where start?


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, I think it’s you know. I think it’s the same with


meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty. It’s um. It’s It’s a fairly simple formula, but it


meridith_elliott_powell: isn’t easy. But where you need to begin is you need to begin by


meridith_elliott_powell: shifting your mindset about how you think you feel and you, what


meridith_elliott_powell: you believe uncertainty to be. Um. You know, one of the most


meridith_elliott_powell: fascinating things from doing the research was that Every leader,


meridith_elliott_powell: every company you can look down through their history and how they


meridith_elliott_powell: function today is. The leader has a very clear vision on where that


meridith_elliott_powell: business is going to be and what it iss going to contribute. Um


meridith_elliott_powell: over the next year, And that’s important because when obstacles get


meridith_elliott_powell: in front of you, If you can’t see beyond the obstacle, you get


meridith_elliott_powell: stuck, right you you? You hit that obstacle and you can’t see


meridith_elliott_powell: beyond it. One of the examples I use in the book is just quickly,


meridith_elliott_powell: Martin Luther King Junior’s I have a dream speech. I can’t imagine


meridith_elliott_powell: what it was like to try to fight for civil rights and people didn’t


meridith_elliott_powell: even know if they were going to win if they were going to get them,


meridith_elliott_powell: and they would get exhausted and they would get tired. But with


meridith_elliott_powell: that speech he painted the future. he painted what could be, and


meridith_elliott_powell: that’s what gives people motivation to keep pushing through, so I


meridith_elliott_powell: call it a relentless vision. In the book, You have to be so focused


meridith_elliott_powell: and overcommunicate so that people can see beyond the crisis at


david_horsager: So how do I? You know Th this even on it own, I’m just going to, because I


david_horsager: know how brilliant you are and how you. You can handle the toughest


david_horsager: boardrooms and you been in


david_horsager: them. So And we’re friends. So you know, let’s let’s you know. There seems


david_horsager: like learning comes in the tension sometimes


david_horsager: because you know I think about this and it’s like even last year I, I had


david_horsager: the unique opportunity to be on a call with Uh. General Mcrystal.


meridith_elliott_powell: how fascinating.


david_horsager: right, you know, two months after about the, you know, it was about May of


david_horsager: the pandemic, maybe of twenty twenty, and Um, Basically a couple of things


david_horsager: he said, number one, gone or one year visions, one year, mission statement,


david_horsager: kind of deal. as as an idea, he said, basically, um, one thing that work.


david_horsager: First of all, he said, you’re going to have to tighten up the time frame in


david_horsager: times of turbulence and massive change. You might have to just say this


david_horsager: week. Hey, everybody hears. We’re headed this week because we don’t even


david_horsager: know what next week’s going to look like or whatever. But but he also said,


david_horsager: Basically many that are listening. Remember that he really, um,


david_horsager: Co, took charge of the joint forces in Uh, when Afghanistan took a turn for


david_horsager: the worst, and and basically um, they’re having all this trouble. Can’t find


david_horsager: Osama Bin Laden Canampt, this can’t that. and basically he, he, he said,


david_horsager: Okay, we need to figure this out and he really shortened the time frame.


david_horsager: Any? I, if I’m not mistaken, what he said is instead of having these even


david_horsager: weekly or these meetings with the intelligence officials around the world,


david_horsager: Uh, so every so often he said, For the next Harever many days, twenty two


david_horsager: hundred intelligence officials are going to getting on on the phone with me


david_horsager: at oh six hundred, my time wherever he was, whether he was in Europe or D.


david_horsager: C, that day or wherever, and we’re going to get on the call for thirty


david_horsager: minutes. Anybody with new information? you’ve got to share it. We’re going


david_horsager: to make a plan for the day.


david_horsager: and they found Bin Laden and a host of other things. But he really narrowed


david_horsager: that focus because you know Th this out there a year. I don’t know what


david_horsager: that’s going to be like in a pandemic, Uh, you know, and yet I see, the The


david_horsager: dream of Martin Luther King is even bigger than a year, right, so, um, I


david_horsager: don’t know. Maybe he can give me a little.


meridith_elliott_powell: Ab, absolutely, I think that, Um, I think that absolutely, when we


meridith_elliott_powell: think about goals or accomplishments, they skinny down. they have


meridith_elliott_powell: to be narrow because we don’t know what it’s going to look like. I


meridith_elliott_powell: was just with a Ceo right before this podcast and we were talking


meridith_elliott_powell: about the fact that will the supply chain open up won’ it open up?


meridith_elliott_powell: Those can mean so many different things for his business, but let


meridith_elliott_powell: me give you an example. Just this past Saturday, I was in Anaheim,


meridith_elliott_powell: California, speaking for a fascinating business. It’s called the


meridith_elliott_powell: Oncology Institute and it’s run by this Um, a former A Wall Street


meridith_elliott_powell: banker, their CEO, and when I first talked to him I said, Help


meridith_elliott_powell: me understand what makes you unique, What makes you different, And


meridith_elliott_powell: this was what he said. He said, We’re looking to revolutionize how


meridith_elliott_powell: people get Um cancer treatment. the experience that they have, all


meridith_elliott_powell: while bringing down the cost of cancer’s treatment. Now, imagine


meridith_elliott_powell: you work for the Oncology institute. You have this massive obstacle


meridith_elliott_powell: in front of you. You’ve got to deal with regulation. You’ve got to


meridith_elliott_powell: deal with staffing issues. you’ve got to deal with insurance


meridith_elliott_powell: companies. you’ve got to deal with so much.


meridith_elliott_powell: but every day you’re reminded you are revolutionizing and changing


meridith_elliott_powell: the way that people are treated for one of the most tragic. Um, you


meridith_elliott_powell: know, tragic, you know services in in the world. you’re making a


meridith_elliott_powell: difference And that’s what pushes you through the slog going after


meridith_elliott_powell: and taking down Osama Bin Laden. I don’t know. Maybe it takes a


meridith_elliott_powell: week, Maybe it takes two years, but being reminded every day that


meridith_elliott_powell: that’s what I’m trying to accomplish. That’s what keeps you from


meridith_elliott_powell: getting stuck in the obstacle. Look, I don’t know what they did to


meridith_elliott_powell: try to break down Osama Bin Laden, but I’m going to tell you I feel


meridith_elliott_powell: really safe in saying it didn’t work A couple of times they tried


meridith_elliott_powell: and they had to pick themselves back up. They had to dust


meridith_elliott_powell: themselves back on and you have to try again. Welcome to


meridith_elliott_powell: uncertainty. That’s uncertainty. and as the leader, you have to


meridith_elliott_powell: craft that vision and you’ve got to remember and remind people why


meridith_elliott_powell: they have to keep trying.


david_horsager: You’ve got some great stories in the book and maybe this will make it real


david_horsager: for people. but


david_horsager: I think I think I’d like listeners to think of whether you’re a mom or dad,


david_horsager: leading your family


meridith_elliott_powell: Oh, completely


david_horsager: in uncertainty. Because whether you’re an entrepreneur like me, We, we just


david_horsager: had an outbreak again of somebody with with coved. We’ve had people on staff


david_horsager: that will be vaccinated, people that don’t want to be ent. We, we got these


david_horsager: challenges even for me in my small headquarters. You know


david_horsager: there’s challenges of how do you navigate and lead, even still two years


david_horsager: So maybe you know I. I just would have people whether you’re running a big


david_horsager: company like


david_horsager: some of the stories in the business or you’re running a family.


david_horsager: How can we lead in the uncertainty ahead because it’s certainly better to be


david_horsager: leading in it. Uh, so maybe let’s let’s take a little. go deeper. the


david_horsager: framework. but maybe on one of the stories can do is one that’s most


david_horsager: relevant that you could give to kind of make it sticky.


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, absolutely you know. it’s so funny that you would ask this


meridith_elliott_powell: because when I finished writing the book, I was done of sending it


meridith_elliott_powell: off to the publisher. all of a sudden, it hit me that the Great


meridith_elliott_powell: Depression didn’t end at five o’clock, And these people had to take


meridith_elliott_powell: this home to their. Um, you know, to their to their personal lives.


meridith_elliott_powell: And how do you you know how do you get through this? So the last


meridith_elliott_powell: part of the book I wrote for applying this this to your, um, you


meridith_elliott_powell: know to your personal life, and I’ll give you one this in, come out


meridith_elliott_powell: of the book. But I think it’s aropoke, because I’ve been doing it


meridith_elliott_powell: with my with my husband right now. Is my husband just had foot


meridith_elliott_powell: surgery and it’s going to be a nine month process, he said, The


meridith_elliott_powell: first of three surgeries. Now we are superactive people. We are on


meridith_elliott_powell: mountain bikes. we are on tennis courts, where are on golf courses.


meridith_elliott_powell: We are hiking. We rarely sit still and now he’s been put into the


meridith_elliott_powell: bed for nine months. Total recovery is going to have to keep. Um,


meridith_elliott_powell: reusing his foot, so I sat down with him this weekend and I said,


meridith_elliott_powell: Where do you see yourself? A year from now? What are the very first


meridith_elliott_powell: things that you want to do when your foot recovers and he said, I


meridith_elliott_powell: want to hike a trail in the smokeies. I want you and I to go on a


meridith_elliott_powell: mountain biking. Um trip. I want to see myself back walking with


meridith_elliott_powell: the guys on the golf course. I wrote that all out on a No card, and


meridith_elliott_powell: every morning we read that together because I want his eye on where


meridith_elliott_powell: he’s going. So you have little kids in the house and they’re


meridith_elliott_powell: struggling with junior high school. Keep their eye on the little


meridith_elliott_powell: dreams that they have. You know, winning little league or the


meridith_elliott_powell: difference that they want to make when they grow up. Just put a few


meridith_elliott_powell: things on a no card. Thank God, we don’t all have to be as


meridith_elliott_powell: artdiculate as Martin Luther, getting junior right, and just put


meridith_elliott_powell: them out there and you just read them, But it’s um, like I know


meridith_elliott_powell: with my husband He’s this year is going to be difficult. You know,


meridith_elliott_powell: it’s going to be painful. Is going to be difficult. but I one him,


meridith_elliott_powell: focused on what all of that is for, Because that’s going to help


meridith_elliott_powell: him find a way.


david_horsager: Back to the vision. What would you say for year? You know you’re making a


david_horsager: difference in the world. What’s the vision of your company?


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, every day I remind Mym, I just had a meeting with my staff


meridith_elliott_powell: this morning and I saidmind Um, you know, I always start our


meridith_elliott_powell: meeting and a end our meeting with Uh, with our vision and it is


meridith_elliott_powell: simply that people are struggling with change and uncertainty. They


meridith_elliott_powell: need a path forward, and that’s our job to show them how easy


meridith_elliott_powell: effective and how much opportunity there is in the marketplace, And


meridith_elliott_powell: we start every meeting and we end every meeting like that and


meridith_elliott_powell: remind my team you’re making a difference.


david_horsager: We, we’re very similar. You know,


david_horsager: we’re in a trust. We think the world’s in a trust crisis. We, we have the


david_horsager: way forward and and building trust. It’s a little more articulate in our


david_horsager: policy manual, but we build trust leaders and organizations around the


david_horsager: world, and we believe that we make the biggest difference when we do that.


david_horsager: so um, let’s let’s jump into


david_horsager: one more peace. I want to touch on a couple of the other books be cause. I


david_horsager: think you. You’ve got such a breadth of work, but in this whole process is


david_horsager: there one more thing? One more step, and everybody should should get the


david_horsager: book Thrive strategies to turn uncertainty to competitive advantage. But one


david_horsager: more tipper. Take away from this book on how we can thrive today, Especially


david_horsager: in the midst uncertainty.


meridith_elliott_powell: yeah, I think. Um, you know, really. My favorite step is Um, is to


meridith_elliott_powell: help people make money in the middle of Um. uncertainty because


meridith_elliott_powell: it’s a myth that there is an opportunity out there. There’s so much


meridith_elliott_powell: opportunity and its strategy number five. It’s secure your base


meridith_elliott_powell: that in an uncertain marketplace, business grows from the inside


meridith_elliott_powell: out. It’s not about attracting new business because you can’t


meridith_elliott_powell: attract new business until you understand the current problems your


meridith_elliott_powell: existing customers have. It’s really about being relevant in the


meridith_elliott_powell: marketplace, and I’ll just tell you really quick story, but it’s


meridith_elliott_powell: the story of Proctor and Gamble. A lot of people know it as P&G


meridith_elliott_powell: And while it’s a famous company, a lot of uh people don’t know


meridith_elliott_powell: that it was started in the early eighteen hundreds by two men,


meridith_elliott_powell: Proctor and Gamble, who married sisters, and they competed for


meridith_elliott_powell: animal fat. One made soap, and one made candles, and one night at a


meridith_elliott_powell: kitchen table in Cincinnati, Ohio, they were fighting over the


meridith_elliott_powell: price of animal fat and their future father in law heard them and


meridith_elliott_powell: said boys, Why don’t you ▁quit competing and start a company, and


meridith_elliott_powell: Proctor and Gamble was born now, Proctor and Gamble is rooted in


meridith_elliott_powell: this step. They don’t put a product to market that they don’t


meridith_elliott_powell: engage customers first, they ask, and the first product they were


meridith_elliott_powell: going to put on the market was soap. Um, I loved that it was


meridith_elliott_powell: soapcause. I can’t think of a more product. That’s more of a


meridith_elliott_powell: commodity. How do you differentiate yourself? Well, they went out


meridith_elliott_powell: and they talked to people and they said. What do you like about


meridith_elliott_powell: soap? What do you not like about soap? And what they got from their


meridith_elliott_powell: customers was gold. People loved soap. but there was a problem. See


meridith_elliott_powell: when you use soap and you lather it up. It’ll slip out of your


meridith_elliott_powell: hands, Fall to the bottom of the bathtub and you can’t find it.


meridith_elliott_powell: Customers told Proctor and Gamble that they wanted ▁quote onquote a


meridith_elliott_powell: soap. That floats, Proctor and Gamble shot air into a bar of ivory


meridith_elliott_powell: soap, and if anybody remembers the tagline for ivory soap was


meridith_elliott_powell: always a soap that floats, and by the end of the eighteen hundreds,


meridith_elliott_powell: pro Dern Gamble was a million dollar company. Now their competitors


meridith_elliott_powell: were selling soaps that smelled good, that came in different shapes


meridith_elliott_powell: and different colors, but they were, their competitors were selling


meridith_elliott_powell: products that solved the wrong problem. If you want to grow in


meridith_elliott_powell: today’s marketplace, solved the right problem, and the only way to


meridith_elliott_powell: do that is to talk to customers.


david_horsager: It get feedback. Why don’t we do it? Why don do people go? Just ask what do


david_horsager: you want? More of what do you like? What can I keep doing?


david_horsager: Both appreciative inquiry and feedback


david_horsager: Such great advice over and over and over.


david_horsager: Let’s lets. I want to get personal in a moment, but before


david_horsager: we do, I want. I want to talk about a couple more of books because just a


david_horsager: touch on so people know about them and a couple key ideas. Because we talk a


david_horsager: lot as far as trust around responsibility. And you wrote the book Own it,


david_horsager: you know, and redefining responsibility. Tell what’s what’s the key thought


david_horsager: in this book.


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, you know what. I? when I wanted to put responsibility, um, in


meridith_elliott_powell: the title, my publisher said You can’t put responsibility in the


meridith_elliott_powell: title, and I said why they said Nobody will buy a book on


meridith_elliott_powell: responsibility. Nobody wants it here. Here is the main premise of


meridith_elliott_powell: that book and the main premise was, I just really started to


meridith_elliott_powell: interview a lot of successful people, self made people who came


meridith_elliott_powell: from nothing, and Um, and the thing that I found over and over


meridith_elliott_powell: again was they passionately believed they were successful because


meridith_elliott_powell: nobody bailed them out. When they failed, they had to pick


meridith_elliott_powell: themselves up. I mean, I was. I was interviewing people that came


meridith_elliott_powell: of age during before social security, back when you couldn’t move


meridith_elliott_powell: home with your parents back when if you lost a job, there was no


meridith_elliott_powell: unemployment and they were grateful for the fact that they had.


meridith_elliott_powell: They had to figure away, and I just felt like we need to stop


meridith_elliott_powell: seeing responsibility as a negative and see it for the gift that it


meridith_elliott_powell: is because when I stopped blaming others or blaming my environment,


meridith_elliott_powell: I put the blame back on myself and the beautiful thing about


meridith_elliott_powell: understanding I’m responsible is I can control me. I’m the one


meridith_elliott_powell: thing I can change. I can, I can move, and when I do that, I become


meridith_elliott_powell: empowered to become and accomplish anything I want to accomplish


meridith_elliott_powell: personally. I believe we’ve become a culture that is just too quick


meridith_elliott_powell: to blame everybody else for the reasons that we’re not succeeding.


meridith_elliott_powell: and even if it’s valid, even if it’s valid, Sometimes it isn’t


meridith_elliott_powell: fair. your circumstances. We’re still cheating you out of an


meridith_elliott_powell: ability to get out of that by telling you that it’s not your fault


meridith_elliott_powell: and that you don’t have the power within you. So that book I wrote


meridith_elliott_powell: based on finding the power within yourself to become and be


meridith_elliott_powell: anything you want to be, And responsibility is a gift. It’s not a


david_horsager: Hm, I love it. Oh, don’t we wish this for all of


david_horsager: all those we work with our kids, our


david_horsager: family, everybody, uh, responsibility. I, um. You know we think a lot about


david_horsager: this because we kind of differentiate accountability and responsily. Many


david_horsager: people think they know a lot about accountability. We’ll ask in a company.


david_horsager: So how do you hold people accountable here? and oh, you know accountability


david_horsager: stuff they don’t know. Right, and we. I, I agree with you in that


david_horsager: responsibility we define is that I can hold myself responsible. I, as a


david_horsager: leader can hold others accountable.


meridith_elliott_powell: right, right.


david_horsager: Therefore, it’s easier to have a healthy accountable company if I’ve he. If


david_horsager: I’ve hired responsible people, But um, there’s two sides there.


david_horsager: The you wrote Who comes next? You wrote the best sales book. That’s got to


david_horsager: be. I mean, come on now, the best sales book With’s one of the best tips


david_horsager: from the best sales book.


meridith_elliott_powell: Well, you know. with that you know, David. I wrote that with Connie


meridith_elliott_powell: Padesta, Uh, what else?


meridith_elliott_powell: W. what else was she going


david_horsager: right. of course.


meridith_elliott_powell: to title? You know that book. I would say that my favorite tip out


meridith_elliott_powell: of there. I’m not sure that Connie would agree, But my favorite tip


meridith_elliott_powell: out of there. My best tip for sales is build your network. It will


meridith_elliott_powell: change your life. If you build your network, you will never call.


meridith_elliott_powell: call ever again. Build relationships long before you, Um. need


meridith_elliott_powell: them. Don’t treat it like sales, treated like adding value and


meridith_elliott_powell: investing in in other people.


david_horsager: the old phrases of your network is Netw is uh,


david_horsager: equal to your networ or um, so forth, So there’s one more than I know the


david_horsager: publishers interested in again. You wrote it Awh ago and I, I don’t usually


david_horsager: jump. I usually go deeper, but you’ve written so much. I want people get to


david_horsager: know you. I think we’ll come back and go deep on something sometim, but I


david_horsager: want my audience to know you. Uh, this, uh, those list to the Trusted Leader


david_horsager: show and I do want to touch on one more because it’s interesting to me and


david_horsager: that is the book you wrote a while back called the Confidence Plan. It’s


david_horsager: it’s uh, looks like it’ll be coming out again


david_horsager: refreshed Uh in the future, but I think of you know with this one I even


meridith_elliott_powell: Mhm, yeah,


david_horsager: think of you know. certainly people. uh, but I think of my kids right,


david_horsager: I think of my daughters. I’ve got four kids, but my daughters you want for


david_horsager: your daughter’s healthy confidence, right you? y, and and um,


david_horsager: I think my wife would been say here. It’s been a journey and she is an


david_horsager: unbelievable leader today, but you know this, this work toward having


david_horsager: healthy confidence. That isn’t this ego driven. And isn’t you know certain


david_horsager: things that maybe even our culture said, women should be or girls should be


david_horsager: or whatever? And so I, I’d love to talk a little bit about what. How do we?


david_horsager: What’s a confidence planner? How do we build healthy confidence in ourselves


david_horsager: or our kids?


meridith_elliott_powell: yeah, I think it’s you know so great. The reason I wrote that book


meridith_elliott_powell: was Um. I had a group of women leaders approached me and said,


meridith_elliott_powell: Would you come talk to our group about confidence, and my first


meridith_elliott_powell: thought was me, and Um, they said Yes, you, you. you appear so


meridith_elliott_powell: confident and I and I do believe I am, But boy had to start out


meridith_elliott_powell: that way. I mean not at all, I mean. and and and so it really made


meridith_elliott_powell: me think like. what did I do to build confidence? And I love the


meridith_elliott_powell: fact that you drew the difference between co dence and arrogance.


meridith_elliott_powell: because Um, because any time I speak about it, I really make that


meridith_elliott_powell: difference. It’s It’s a humble belief in yourself and Um, belief


meridith_elliott_powell: that you can accomplish and you can do things well. At the same


meridith_elliott_powell: time, having an incredible thirst for knowledge and input from


meridith_elliott_powell: other people. being okay with not


meridith_elliott_powell: always having the answers you know. And one of the most important


meridith_elliott_powell: things that I think to Um. to build confidence is number one is to


meridith_elliott_powell: to to be in an environment that allows you to try and to fail. Is


meridith_elliott_powell: that Um, for other people not coming in and doing things for you? I


meridith_elliott_powell: believe that confidence is built through progress, not through the


meridith_elliott_powell: end result. So uh, so with that whenever I’m helping people and a


meridith_elliott_powell: lot that we talk about in the book, Is you mean you do you have to


meridith_elliott_powell: have a vision for yourself? You have to have goals of things that


meridith_elliott_powell: you want to um, accomplish, But it’s about taking baby steps. I


meridith_elliott_powell: come, um, I come out of a. A definitely a loving home, but


meridith_elliott_powell: unfortunately my home was riddled with um, alcoholism. Six male


meridith_elliott_powell: members of my family, including both my brothers, my father, my


meridith_elliott_powell: first husband all died of alcoholism and I was really ashamed Um of


meridith_elliott_powell: that, so much so that it eroded my confidence. The funny thing


meridith_elliott_powell: about confidence has nothing to do with me, but it still took you


meridith_elliott_powell: know the wings out from under me and I had to start to look at the


meridith_elliott_powell: parts of my life that weren’t where I wanted them to be and take


meridith_elliott_powell: baby steps. I couldn’t go from ▁zero to sixties. I sixty, I didn’t


meridith_elliott_powell: know how to have healthy relationships, so I had to take a step. My


meridith_elliott_powell: health wasn’t quite where I needed to get it. I was always busy


meridith_elliott_powell: taking care of everybody’s else, so the biggest advice I say to


meridith_elliott_powell: people is you need to look and be honest in every area of your


meridith_elliott_powell: life, your health, your finances, your um, relationships, your


meridith_elliott_powell: spirituality, and professionally rate yourself one to five, five


meridith_elliott_powell: being the highest of where you are and be honest. Just doing that


meridith_elliott_powell: is like getting a weight because confidence is eroded because we’re


meridith_elliott_powell: We’re trying to hide or keep something down. We’re unsure of


meridith_elliott_powell: ourselves and so let’s say that you know your health isn’t where it


meridith_elliott_powell: needs to be. Well. you don’t have to be an Olympic athlete this


meridith_elliott_powell: time next year. But if you could just say I’m going to take a walk


meridith_elliott_powell: twice a week, you’ll start to feel better about yourself and the


meridith_elliott_powell: very fact that you may be a one in health and you want to be a


meridith_elliott_powell: five. Just the very fact that you’re making progress. it builds


meridith_elliott_powell: your confidence. The last thing I’m going to say is who you


meridith_elliott_powell: surround yourself with is everything. You need people who support


meridith_elliott_powell: that and Um, you got enough gremblins happening in your own head.


meridith_elliott_powell: You need people around you who um, who support your dreams and um


meridith_elliott_powell: and support that. I’m passionate. The confidence can be learned and


meridith_elliott_powell: um. and it’s important to work on it and to build it


david_horsager: you become like the people you around, right


david_horsager: we the average, almost an attitude, wealth, brain power, and almost


david_horsager: everything else of the of the people we spend the most time with It seems


david_horsager: um, Wow, be carefully. You surround yourself with


david_horsager: humble belief in yourself a whole lot more. I love this. It’s so good as


david_horsager: long as we talk present so much. I, this is. you know. this is my uh, free


meridith_elliott_powell: Yess, right.


david_horsager: thousand dollar consulting session for me and everybody listens to trusted


david_horsager: Leader show, so we’re just going to suck the mi of life on it right out of


david_horsager: it right now. So thank you from everybody listening to get to sit in the


david_horsager: room with married Elviet Powell, Meredith Elliott Powe, I do have. I do have


meridith_elliott_powell: it’s it’s it’s a. it’s a it. that’s you. Can. you can even just


david_horsager: to like that’s you know. I just want to say Meredith.


meridith_elliott_powell: me Mayor. That’s what everybody in the family does.


david_horsager: yeah, me. all right. well, um, it’s it’s been a journey and a fun. Don’t


david_horsager: even get to know you a bit. But I want to uh, ask another question, because


david_horsager: you know we find at least leaders that are seem to be great on stage are


david_horsager: great in their work publicly. and you have a whole lot of public work I see,


david_horsager: and know. your serve on boards. I know, and been on stage together at some


david_horsager: of the biggest stages, at least in the country. and Um, you know, but the


david_horsager: great leaders aren’t just. They seem like they are doing the right things


david_horsager: privately. They’re leading themselves well,


meridith_elliott_powell: Mhm, Mhm,


david_horsager: and I know you do some things you love outside. But what are some other


david_horsager: things you do To lead yourself Well?


meridith_elliott_powell: Oh, I think that some of the things I do to lead myself well is


meridith_elliott_powell: number one. I’m a big believer that you’ve got to practice. Um.


meridith_elliott_powell: you’ve got to practice what you preach. That my actions are so much


meridith_elliott_powell: more important, Um than my words, And that even means like you


meridith_elliott_powell: know, mornings that I’m frustrated and maybe I’m getting on a call


meridith_elliott_powell: with my team to kind of catch myself before I get on there, not to


meridith_elliott_powell: to bring the attitude that’s going to motivate. That’s going to.


meridith_elliott_powell: Um. You know this going to inspire them. I also am very selfish


meridith_elliott_powell: about taking time to invest in myself. I think as a leader we have


meridith_elliott_powell: to realize that a lot of energy is taken out of us and we need that


meridith_elliott_powell: time to. Um. We need that time to replenish, so I’m incredibly, Um.


meridith_elliott_powell: I’m incredibly selfish about that, and then I would say the third


meridith_elliott_powell: is to make sure that I’m spending the time educating myself. I mean


meridith_elliott_powell: as a leader, I need to stay one step ahead and I need to be


meridith_elliott_powell: providing value for my clients for my team for my family, And you


meridith_elliott_powell: know what am I doing? You know in in order to be able to provide


david_horsager: what do you do? What are some of things you consistently read or listen to?


david_horsager: How do you stay fresh and relevant


david_horsager: and capable? What are you looking at learning from


meridith_elliott_powell: so every single morning I spend at least you know, thirty minutes


meridith_elliott_powell: to an hour reading the Um, reading the economist. Um, you know most


meridith_elliott_powell: of my clients are you know in the corporate? Uh, you know in the


meridith_elliott_powell: corporate world, And so Um, that is, that is an everyday, Um


meridith_elliott_powell: indulgence on Sundays, or if I’m going through airports, it’s my


meridith_elliott_powell: guilty pleasure, is I? if I’m in a hotel, I’ll read the Wall Street


meridith_elliott_powell: Journal. I ▁quit, getting it Um at home because I don’t. Uh, I


meridith_elliott_powell: don’t have the time to you know, to read it every day. Um, so many


meridith_elliott_powell: of our colleagues send me books and things, Um, all the time, So I


meridith_elliott_powell: read those books and then I admitted to you right before we got on


meridith_elliott_powell: this show. I’m a major big nerd, so I watch investment. Um, you


meridith_elliott_powell: know I watch investment shows. The counter to that is that at least


meridith_elliott_powell: for ninety minutes every day, no matter where I am in the world,


meridith_elliott_powell: you will catch me outside doing something, whether it’s a hike,


meridith_elliott_powell: whether it’s a mountain bike, and on that, I don’t think about


meridith_elliott_powell: anything. I don’t think about business. That’s just really time to.


meridith_elliott_powell: you know, sometimes I’m with a you know, my husband or another


meridith_elliott_powell: member of the family or a friend. Sometimes I’m just by myself, but


meridith_elliott_powell: that’s you know. that’s my indulgence to be able to do that.


david_horsager: on that exerciser Outside? Is that your exercise and then is that varied all


david_horsager: the time? So golf can be at this day. Mountain biking can be it that day,


david_horsager: but you just make sure there’s always ninety minutes outside.


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah, there’s always, and it’s um. So if I play golf, I walk and


meridith_elliott_powell: you know I,


meridith_elliott_powell: I carry my clubs. and so, but it’s always I. It’s varied. I got out


meridith_elliott_powell: of the gym years ago. I mean, if I’m in a hotel, I’ll um. I’ll go,


meridith_elliott_powell: but for me it’s much more important, Um for movement and


meridith_elliott_powell: especially, I mean, I don’t know how you are about this, David. But


meridith_elliott_powell: if I have a client with a really big problem or I’m about to do a


meridith_elliott_powell: big major keynote, I’ll choose my mountain bike or a hiking trail.


meridith_elliott_powell: Because just that distance helps me get some kind of realization


meridith_elliott_powell: into a story I need to hone in or I don’t know. There’s just


meridith_elliott_powell: something about getting out in nature like that that clears my head


meridith_elliott_powell: and allows ideas and solutions to open up. When I was a kid, my


meridith_elliott_powell: mother used to always say there’s nothing that a good hike in the


meridith_elliott_powell: woods won’t solve, and as a kid as a kid, I never thought she was


meridith_elliott_powell: right, but she’s a hu hundred and fifty percent right.


david_horsager: my wife would put a triple stamp of approval on this


david_horsager: outside outside outside, so


david_horsager: sometimes I’ll I’ll get on a an elliptical in our home and I’ll put mybs


david_horsager: out. Listen to podcast. I like to do that.


david_horsager: She’s like, Why don’t you get outside? I mean, and in Minnesota, we say


david_horsager: there’s no bad weather, Just the wrong clothes right, so you can handle


david_horsager: anything forty below, ▁zero, But um, but you just got to wear the right


meridith_elliott_powell: that’s right. that’s right. I agree.


david_horsager: meredeth, this has been such a joy. Tons of tips and takeaways here. but um,


david_horsager: where can we find out more? Where’s the best place to find more out More


david_horsager: about you? I know you’ve got courses. You’ve got a whole lot of you know.


david_horsager: you got the books and a whole lot of other things to share. Where can we


david_horsager: find out about you?


meridith_elliott_powell: Yeah. yeah, so you can find me at my website, which is just value a


meridith_elliott_powell: speaker, dot com, just towards value speaker dot com. I’m also uh,


meridith_elliott_powell: I tend to be on link in almost every day. It’s my preferred social


meridith_elliott_powell: media and I’m a big believer in Bulld your network. Change your


meridith_elliott_powell: life. So if you reach out and connect with me, I will definitely


meridith_elliott_powell: connect with you.


david_horsager: Thank you, Meith. You know what? It’s the trust leader. Show who is the


david_horsager: leader you trust and why?


meridith_elliott_powell: Um. Ken Lang, gone, one of the founders of Um. Home Depot. I just


meridith_elliott_powell: finished Um, reading his book. Uh, I love capitalism, but I, you


meridith_elliott_powell: know, the more that I have studied Ken Langone over the years, and I’ve


meridith_elliott_powell: gotten a chance to have dinner with him. Uh, more than a few times,


meridith_elliott_powell: But he is truly a man. I love self made people, people who came


meridith_elliott_powell: from nothing and his parents were immigrants. Um came to Brooklyn,


meridith_elliott_powell: believed in education and he built himself up from there. but just


meridith_elliott_powell: the story of his life time and time again, He always took the right


meridith_elliott_powell: road and has always been about the right things. and now that he’s


meridith_elliott_powell: become a billionaire, he’s invested in, you know, building the


meridith_elliott_powell: Langonn, um, uh, Medical center in New York City, and just really


meridith_elliott_powell: giving back and making a difference. His, his core, um, uh, area of


meridith_elliott_powell: focus is education and I believe in you. give people


meridith_elliott_powell: education You can change their lives.


david_horsager: that’s so true and education motivates


david_horsager: education. Uh, when I learned exactly what was inside of a hot dog, I


david_horsager: stopped eating so many. so


meridith_elliott_powell: that’s right. that’s all right,


david_horsager: Oh, my, everybody. listing what a treat to be with Meredith. We, you know,


david_horsager: this has been the trusted leader show. If you want any of the show notes,


david_horsager: you know they’ll all be there. Trusted leaders show dot com


david_horsager: for everybody listening,


david_horsager: Remember the Trusted Leaders summit is coming up. The best deal is right now


david_horsager: only a little bit longer. Trust the leaders summit Dot com, Meredith Elliott


david_horsager: Powell, It has been a treat to be with you today. Thank you so much for


david_horsager: sharing your wisdom. Thanks for the friendship and that has been the trusted


david_horsager: leader show until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 60: Ryan Leak on The GREATEST Tool For Change In Diversity (Part 2)

In this episode, David sits down with Ryan Leak, Speaker, Author, Executive Coach, and Podcaster, to discuss the GREATEST tool for change in diversity.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Ryan’s Bio:
Ryan Leak is a speaker, author, executive coach, and podcaster from Dallas, TX. He’s known as the ultimate risk taker from two documentaries, one being the Surprise Wedding where he proposed to his wife and married her on the same day after he planned the wedding for two years. The second documentary is called Chasing Failure that displays his journey of trying out for the Phoenix Suns. He speaks to over 50,000 people a month and trains upwards of 12,000 leaders a year from C-Suite Executives to professional athletes.

Ryan’s Links:
Website: https://www.ryanleak.com/
“Chasing Failure” by Ryan Leak: https://amzn.to/3ru3dw2
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanleak/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanleak/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ryanleak
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ryanleak
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqoJtQgM2gMlGf8BaZIZglw

Key Quotes:
1. “Who knows who I really am?”
2. “People can know your name but never know your pain.”
3. “Being authentic is good for us.”
4. “Authenticity is massive when it comes to building trust.”
5. “Friendship is by far the greatest tool for change.”
6. “We all need someone in our life to take a chance on our potential.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Chasing Failure” by Ryan Leak: https://amzn.to/3ru3dw2

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

Kent Svenson: Welcome to The Trusted Leader Show. I’m Kent Svenson, producer of The Trusted Leader Show.


Kent Svenson: And this episode is part 2 of David’s interview with Ryan Leak. If you missed part 1, Ryan discussed why we should all be chasing failure, the 5 questions we should be asking when counting the cost of our dreams, and why our calendar’s will actually determine the trajectory of our lives.


Kent Svenson: If you missed last week’s episode, definitely go check it out. But let’s rejoin them now for part 2 of David’s interview with Ryan Leak. Enjoy the show.


David Horsager: Let’s jump into this, you know.


David Horsager: The self leadership questions because you’re asking a few questions, maybe not all 12 of them, but your what are a few you know, in your learning from leading yourself and leading.


David Horsager: inspiring executives and really pro athletes, or whatever you get these 12 questions you’re thinking about and I think the interesting thing we talked about this earlier where.


David Horsager: You know you learn an executive coach and you told them something they didn’t do much, yes, through a question that started them sometimes ignited transformation, what are some of those questions on self leadership that we can take a peek into.


Ryan Leak: Oh you’re asking for a sneak preview.


David Horsager: peak that’s What about giving value here.


David Horsager: This is why we do the.


Ryan Leak: Okay sneaky agree, this is the insider information without paying you right here yeah.


Ryan Leak: So one of the questions of the.


Ryan Leak: That, I think everyone should be asking themselves to help themselves grow.


Ryan Leak: Let me see which one do I want to to reveal um.


Ryan Leak: The one, the one that I think has resonated the most with clients and friend, is is this question, who knows who I really am I call this the transparency question.


Ryan Leak: The reason for this is is We live in a society where we post our best hide the rest.


Ryan Leak: I know so many people who have gotten divorced over the last two years and they still had to show up on zoom and perform and by the time they told their co workers and colleagues and friends, they had gotten a divorce, the typical response that they get is, I never knew.


Ryan Leak: I never knew that you, you were having having issues, and so, most people take their issues and they go into a corner and they just suffer alone, and nobody actually knows who they really are people can know your name and never know your pain and that that can be.


Ryan Leak: You can find yourself in a pretty unhealthy situation.


Ryan Leak: By doing that, and so I think the transparency question is absolutely massive, especially in a day and age, where mental health is on the rise, and you don’t want to be the one that is ostracized or pity or.


Ryan Leak: In a lot of conversations around diversity equity and inclusion, you know if you’re a minority of any kind, if you’re the least of in a room.


Ryan Leak: And it can it can be a thing of going i’m not going to tell anybody who are really feel because I have more to lose I lose my job I don’t want to, and I just.


Ryan Leak: i’ve got a really good friend who he suffers from panic attacks can’t get on a plane.


Ryan Leak: He loved to travel with me so, but he he literally cannot, and he was telling me a story about one time he got on a plane and he he had a panic attack and begged the captain and the stewardesses to open the gate and they said, you know how much money, it will cost us to do that.


Ryan Leak: And he’s like I can’t breathe.


Ryan Leak: And you just think about man and how many people are going through so much and you just you just never know.


Ryan Leak: Who they really are until there is something about being authentic that is so good for us and.


Ryan Leak: And we we just work in a society where that’s not really applaud and all that much and and having transparency be it’s like hey we pay you to do a job so so do your job.


Ryan Leak: And so I think the world could be a better place if we were all just a little bit more transparent and I like to say, everybody doesn’t need to know.


Ryan Leak: But some Somebody needs to know who you really are and so that that’s one of the questions that I think helps develop leaders and people under huge.


David Horsager: What we see it all the time if you’re doing it, we say this if you’re doing leadership alone you’re doing it wrong you got to have team.


David Horsager: And by the way, you’re absolutely right to that you don’t share this with every everybody isn’t your you don’t dump every bad thing or every struggles to everybody, but you have to have a place, you have to have a space, you have to have.


David Horsager: Accountability a mastermind close friends or mentors or whatever to do that, you know let’s talk about this uh you know building trust.


David Horsager: Diversity equity inclusion belonging.


David Horsager: For our audience all these trusted leaders and.


David Horsager: You know, we know that one of the biggest studies out of Harvard shows diversity on its own, we only focus on diversity.


David Horsager: tends to infect in in one study, one of the biggest of its kind kind of said it pits people against each other.


David Horsager: But when you increase trust you get em meant benefits, as you know, a diversity equity inclusion.


David Horsager: Or you know, being a man of color what can all of us learn about how we could build trust, so that we enjoy the benefits of all people, as we lead a more diverse environment, then maybe we ever have in.


Ryan Leak: Here absolutely so great question I think authenticity is massive when it comes to to building trust every minority of any kind of has the same superpower thanks can smell it fraud.


Ryan Leak: They all have the same similar they can smell it from thinking always if let’s just say I was speaking to a group of women and I started speaking on behalf of women and their struggle.


Ryan Leak: Every women in the audience going.


Ryan Leak: huh.


Ryan Leak: How do you, you can tell somebody that raised some stats versus somebody that has actually sat with.


Ryan Leak: Women and really understood their struggle to make sense, and so I think sometimes what happens in the marketplace is we think okay well, one of the ways that we can.


Ryan Leak: Because here’s here’s here’s a big fear that a lot of people that nobody wants to be considered a race, nobody nobody wants to be considered, no one wants to be.


Ryan Leak: That person that isn’t trusted nobody wants to be there, and so what happens is is we try to put makeup on our website or an eye and in in full transparency, I used to help companies, change the website and they will do exactly what I told them to do.


Ryan Leak: Their website changed, but they did not.


Ryan Leak: and


David Horsager: How do they change, how do we, how do we create change we’re talking about this, all the time, how do we change the culture of organizations.


David Horsager: have changed thinking, how do we actually had we act change is not easy.


Ryan Leak: way to personal habit, I used to do this habit train, we still have it as.


David Horsager: Part of the curriculum.


David Horsager: And I would ask you.


David Horsager: How many of you’ve changed a big habit last 20 or more pounds in your life don’t have to first of all, so how many have wanted every team to have 100%.


David Horsager: How many ever change a habit, it was like 6%.


Ryan Leak: Actually, the change to.


David Horsager: happen so.


David Horsager: The ability to actually change whether it’s um you know I mean some of these systems were titled racial inequity systems or other system how what are some things you’ve seen, maybe even an individual coaching session that actually started to see change.


Ryan Leak: i’m going to give you 111 way to change in this particular area of diversity and inclusion.


Ryan Leak: friendship.


Ryan Leak: Friendship program certification.


Ryan Leak: Reading a book and give you some information on some history but friendship is by far the greatest tool for change, because when you’re friends with someone who is marginalized when you’re friends with someone who is ostracize.


Ryan Leak: You can tell.


Ryan Leak: You can tell them and said well we’ve got Indian neighbor in the neighbors who have invited us to a festival of lights, that is typically mostly Indian but they’ve invited us as their print.


Ryan Leak: In so we’re going as their friends.


Ryan Leak: it’s going to be very, very difficult for any of us to understand someone we’ve never sat with that we’ve never broken bread with that we’ve never had.


Ryan Leak: A meal with in, so I think one of the most endearing questions that we can be asking someone that is different than us in any way, shape or form.


Ryan Leak: Is what’s it like to be you.


Ryan Leak: what’s it like to be you in our organization what’s it like to be the only woman on the board what’s it like to be a person of color in an organization well this onboarding like for you.


Ryan Leak: Are there moments, where you think if you are honest, that you could lose your job.


Ryan Leak: What what what is what is that.


Ryan Leak: What is what is that, like, for you.


Ryan Leak: let’s see.


David Horsager: Really quick.


Ryan Leak: What you know.


David Horsager: You know let’s jump in there, because you your leader and some of the spaces i’ve seen in quite white dominated arenas in certain spaces, at least, that I know that you’re in.


David Horsager: it’s like to be you.


David Horsager: hey you’re feeding the questions buddy.


Ryan Leak: Right.


Ryan Leak: It is.


Ryan Leak: extremely difficult and extremely rewarding at the same time.


Ryan Leak: But, for me, it is a.


Ryan Leak: You know, there is a.


Ryan Leak: How, there is a there is a measurement when I walk in a room of going how black, can I be.


Ryan Leak: Think about.


Ryan Leak: Sports that.


Ryan Leak: black and white people love.


Ryan Leak: And then you think about sports are subjects that are more white centric or more black centric in so as an nba guy I rarely talk about nba stuff because a lot of the spaces, that I am entering into are more dominated by hunting.


Ryan Leak: Fishing or football, of which those sports are not of interest to me, nor have I ever participated in.


Ryan Leak: And so what I what I look for is commonality, but there is a an awareness, for me, of guy hey don’t talk about this simply because it won’t relate to the idea, and so, so I think that there’s there’s there is a.


Ryan Leak: A constant and especially just traveling now it gets harder because you’re going into a room you’re going is this a mask room is this a non mask room.


Ryan Leak: Is this a vaccinating environment is a non vaccinated environment is this a polarizing environment is this a red state is this a blue state is this a.


Ryan Leak: You know, are you going to be chastised for not wearing a mask are you going to be chastised for wearing a mask you so all of those things as a person that speaks to a lot of people I do more reading of rooms than I do.


David Horsager: To that point.


David Horsager: On that exact point, I would say that is what we should all do.


David Horsager: period, we should think of serving them like i’ve seen speakers, and you have to that are out there to serve themselves to have their own therapy.


David Horsager: Where are my question always every paragraph when we teach her are certified folks and coaches it’s like asking what does this mean to them.


David Horsager: So, in one way that’s a great like their stories I can’t tell from I people know I grew up on the farm and all this and I tell certain things that that.


David Horsager: that people can relate to, and it turns out, still in our country about 80% of people that only a generation or two remove gruesome grampa at least a grandpa touch somehow.


David Horsager: Many did, but many dentists, I can tell all those things right, so I think thinking about the audience is key, no matter what but but tell me one more level of what for you as a person of color.


David Horsager: And let’s even go deeper because I would assume it’s easier almost to go and speak and leave, but what about a relationship, because I know your path past leader very well who loved hunting and fishing, for example.


Ryan Leak: But how in.


David Horsager: That let’s say you’re having a leadership team meeting.


David Horsager: yeah what what you know you were I don’t know how long have a voice or not, but what what.


David Horsager: What was difficult about that, so we can, as you know, peek behind and say this is different, this is something I don’t get or understand, we can read.


David Horsager: It and we can read all these things that you said, we can even have friends, but you have a unique perspective as as kind of an executive on the team.


Ryan Leak: yeah totally you know, for me, I I even have to think through what do I wear because, so you know you’re doing you know 1520 corporate gigs in November, should I wear a navy blue blazer and sky blue shirt.


Ryan Leak: to fit in.


Ryan Leak: Or should I dress how I dress I have both So if I fit in it’s like well you you go, like everybody else, except just just black.


Ryan Leak: So so.


David Horsager: Here is I think there’s even another deeper level right here.


David Horsager: Because I can say.


David Horsager: In who I am I can wear cowboy boots and jeans and feel really comfortable I could wear something else but i’m going to actually think about the audience.


David Horsager: And where the blue blazer and the blue shirt.


David Horsager: Because I want them just to quickly trust me i’ve noticed that works.


David Horsager: So why is it.


David Horsager: easier for me there’s something here that’s a little unfair in that it’s easier for me.


David Horsager: To just think about them and do it than it is fair for you, is something we need to understand what is it.


Ryan Leak: You know I think we’re all trying to measure what will be accepted versus rejected I i’ll give a someone who is on the other side of the pendulum for me.


David Horsager: They are, by the way.


David Horsager: This is great.


Ryan Leak: You know I love this conversation so Eric Thomas okay.


Ryan Leak: Someone said number one motivational speaker in the world.


Ryan Leak: He is black he speaks in Jordan 11th Jordan shorts and his own branded T shirt or sweatshirt if it’s cold.


Ryan Leak: And a hat.


Ryan Leak: i’m speaking for one of the largest organizations in the world, next week.


Ryan Leak: There is no way I could wear Jordan 11s, Jordan shorts and my own brand of t-shirt.


Ryan Leak: There is no way.


Ryan Leak: I can do it Eric Thomas does.


David Horsager: and get let me ask you this, what, why is that because there’s no way I could either wear what I wear daily.


David Horsager: You know, so what tell me why that is because i’ve seen people hire on personality, I know a guy that wears nothing I would wear that happens to be a white guy.


David Horsager: You know, but there’s something here what why.


David Horsager: Is that that you couldn’t Is it because of that audience, or is it because of who you are who they hired you to be that you represented yourself as.


Ryan Leak: You know I think Eric has gotten to a level where he just said hey I can just be myself and i’m the best in the world you’re going to get me or you can’t but i’m not i’m not changing for you, you know.


David Horsager: i’ve never heard about authenticity why don’t I like I can I can go in with what am I gonna feel authentic but what about you, I mean.


Ryan Leak: I I love clothes like what i’m wearing right now.


David Horsager: yeah.


Ryan Leak: You look great it.


Ryan Leak: I couldn’t see you wearing it.


David Horsager: Why is that.


Ryan Leak: I mean it’s it’s like.


David Horsager: For me.


Ryan Leak: So, again I would I would wear this, but you know today, I had to think or i’m going to be on the Dallas news station right so.


Ryan Leak: Later today i’m going to go film so i’m thinking okay what’s TV appropriate.


Ryan Leak: And you don’t want to be distracting which you want to be sharp and you want it, you know, but you also don’t want i’m not a khaki pants navy blue blazer person so so thinking you know i’m not going to wear nba sweat on TV today but part of that is.


Ryan Leak: You don’t want to, I think, for me, scare people, because in part of.


Ryan Leak: Part of you know I speak up you know, one of the one of the largest churches in America, that is, you know it has quite a few white people, and I would say over the last year and a half what i’ve been able to do is earn their trust.


Ryan Leak: And, and so part of that if I.


Ryan Leak: You know Nike data.


Ryan Leak: or for a weekend or I think there would be a there is a stigma that has come with people who aren’t quote unquote professional.


Ryan Leak: And so, those are some hurdles in some stigmas that have come with the African American Community that when I walked through the door, there is.


Ryan Leak: You know I had one client they’re like, why are you always early like you’re way too early and i’m like well there’s a stigma that like people are late and I, and I feel like i’m.


Ryan Leak: Fixing it.


Ryan Leak: or or that I have to prove to you that.


Ryan Leak: that’s not the case, you know and so there’s this even there’s there’s places, you know if i’m working with a professional sports team i’ll come suited up.


Ryan Leak: And they’re like I mean you’re not overdressed but like you’re like really, really like on right now and i’m like why I almost feel like I have to represent a different brand of black, if you will, because so many people have had.


Ryan Leak: Either a negative experience with an African American of sorts, and so.


Ryan Leak: there’s people that i’ve recommended that are black that I gotten feedback from, and you know, there was just a litany of things that I feel like i’m like Okay, those are things that coming in the door, I have to fix any potential.


Ryan Leak: wrongs, if you will, and that and that can be that can be challenging.


Ryan Leak: I think for for me.


David Horsager: that’s a big weight to carry.


Ryan Leak: yeah you know in part of it is like I it’s a weight to carry but like I said it’s also very rewarding to.


Ryan Leak: really show up for my client and just do a really good job.


David Horsager: mm hmm.


Ryan Leak: there’s something about going hey i’m here to add value to your life.


Ryan Leak: And it’s not about me and I wanna I want to have your company be better, I want to help you become better and, at the end it’s like.


Ryan Leak: Man I just heard a really great message, or I just had a really great session with a guy who just so happens to be black.


Ryan Leak: But the paradigm of black people are this way I feel like I have an opportunity to.


Ryan Leak: To change that because i’m going well hey that that’s that’s actually not true, but I can argue with you and say hey here’s why it’s not true.


Ryan Leak: Or, I can just do the best that I possibly can, and just do and just do a good job so, so I think that those are some.


Ryan Leak: But but, and I have to say this, when I there’s a there’s a slide that I do whenever I do a diversity keynote I call it the breadcrumbs slide.


Ryan Leak: And what I always do is I always follow the breadcrumbs as to how I got that opportunity in on that breadcrumb slides is it’s a slide of white people who gave me access to opportunities.


Ryan Leak: That I wouldn’t have had, without them, and so part of what I like to communicate to people is going hey you might go matt Ryan see you, you made it Ryan see you you’ve done it we don’t even have a problem.


Ryan Leak: Well, yes, enough of what you don’t see about the behind the scenes of my story is there is someone that has been unlocking doors for me all along.


Ryan Leak: In so if there wasn’t about mirror if there wasn’t a Jason strand you mean it may not even be on this podcast right now, and so.


Ryan Leak: There was a at one point my parents could not afford to keep me in a private school in rockford Illinois, which is the second most dangerous city in America, so the trajectory of my life should have been completely different.


Ryan Leak: But there was a ninth grade English teacher who said hey I see something in your boys what me and my husband will pay for them to stay at the school.


Ryan Leak: And that allowed me to meet this next person and this next person that led me to go to the College that I go to, then I got connected to the President of that college, who made an introduction for me to for me to land my first job.


Ryan Leak: And then, that I mean, and I can follow these breadcrumbs until the behind the scenes, and my story.


Ryan Leak: is an incredible amount of white people who gave me opportunities that I was not ready for but they took a chance on me anyways, and so what I encourage people to do is is to say hey.


Ryan Leak: I think we all need someone in our life to take a chance on our potential, and I think we also need to be taking chances on other people for them to help them see their potential, otherwise I wouldn’t be sitting in my seat, right now, if it wasn’t for.


Ryan Leak: A lot of really great people that said hey we’re on your Ryan, like a chant and so that makes me want to give other people a chance and so So yes, it’s a.


Ryan Leak: it’s it’s challenging for me, but at the same time, the behind the scenes of is what I really want people to see of going.


Ryan Leak: There might be a minority of some sort in your organization and going yeah they can rise up but yeah there’s a lot of people who work just as hard as me that are black or that are female or or whatever, and the difference between me and them is not talent it’s opportunity.


Ryan Leak: And access.


Ryan Leak: To rooms and boardrooms and tables that they didn’t get that I got maybe at age 18 that I really didn’t deserve to be in the room, but I was invited by somebody someone did me a favor someone.


Ryan Leak: Just just gave me gave me access I wouldn’t be doing stuff with nba teams if it wasn’t, for I mean literally I could point to.


Ryan Leak: amazing white people that weren’t even trying to be.


Ryan Leak: inclusive.


Ryan Leak: They just said hey there’s this kid.


Ryan Leak: Well, I think your players would relate to, and I think you should give them a chance and they had no idea who I was they gave me an opportunity anyways so things grew from there, I started it well, yes, but um.


Ryan Leak: But that that’s what I hope people understand about if you’re in any majority category.


Ryan Leak: Hard work is not enough.


Ryan Leak: You need somebody to give you an opportunity to be heard and and I think that that’s huge.


David Horsager: Lots here and lots more questions I told you, we weren’t going to.


David Horsager: Go too long and what did we do with keeping going we’re going to go on for another one.


David Horsager: You gotta land this plane, but boy I hope we can have you back i’d love to see you at.


David Horsager: Our summit, but I.


David Horsager: A couple of big things and I somebody told me this back in college, the greatest tool for changes friendship, in that, and that is huge and I think this question, we need to ask, as leaders what’s it like to be you.


David Horsager: what’s it like to be you here.


David Horsager: what’s it like to be you, especially as we’re trying to make a higher trust more inclusive environment on our teams lots more to say lots more to think about the book is chasing failure there’s a new one around the corner so start reading chasing failure before you.


David Horsager: Before we have the other one on your desk the best place to find out more about Riley.


Ryan Leak: Riley calm Ryan Lee calm i’m Ryan league everywhere Twitter instagram tick tock.


Ryan Leak: There is another Ryan Lee professional soccer player actually on that out, but apparently he did not get.


Ryan Leak: The URLs of everything everything else so i’d be fun so Ryan like everywhere, but Riley calm, is where is where you where you will find all of the all of the Info that you need on me.


David Horsager: This has been a treat we always end with this final question it’s a trusted leader show who’s a leader you trust and why.


Ryan Leak: Oh later, I trust, and why what a great question um.


Ryan Leak: You know I would say Jason strand Jason strand, he is the senior pastor of very large church either book church somewhere i’m sure, a lot of your audience may be familiar with that church.


Ryan Leak: It may not.


Ryan Leak: But you know, the level of integrity that he operates with and his he so unassuming sell unassuming.


Ryan Leak: doesn’t I think he has maybe one or two social media profiles that are not have kept at all.


Ryan Leak: Most people in his position want to leverage it for more fame or more success but.


Ryan Leak: You know he’s he’s he is.


Ryan Leak: i’m trying to think of the best way to say he is the most special normal person and leader i’ve ever met.


Ryan Leak: him or heard that phrase the of the most special normal person yeah.


David Horsager: Jason and let him know you said that that’s all.


Ryan Leak: Right what it what encapsulates like his.


Ryan Leak: Easier so down to earth he so.


Ryan Leak: manage he’s just he’s just trying to lead a great organization he’s he’s not trying to he’s just laser focused on his tasks he’s not really thinking about much outside of that and.


Ryan Leak: And just just his his level of of integrity of of you know, trying to add value to people’s lives and ultimately their faith and I just think it’s I think it’s really cool so he’s an easy one to trust.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: yeah wow.


David Horsager: Ryan Leak. Thank you. Thanks for this time today.


Ryan Leak: My pleasure.


David Horsager: Somewhat tree tree to connect.


David Horsager: like this is thanks for sharing with this audience more to come with Ryan Leak that’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 59: Ryan Leak on Why You SHOULD Chase Failure (Part 1)

In this episode, David sits down with Ryan Leak, Speaker, Author, Executive Coach, and Podcaster, to discuss why you SHOULD chase failure.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Ryan’s Bio:
Ryan Leak is a speaker, author, executive coach, and podcaster from Dallas, TX. He’s known as the ultimate risk taker from two documentaries, one being the Surprise Wedding where he proposed to his wife and married her on the same day after he planned the wedding for two years. The second documentary is called Chasing Failure that displays his journey of trying out for the Phoenix Suns. He speaks to over 50,000 people a month and trains upwards of 12,000 leaders a year from C-Suite Executives to professional athletes.

Ryan’s Links:
Website: https://www.ryanleak.com/
“Chasing Failure” by Ryan Leak: https://amzn.to/3ru3dw2
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanleak/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ryanleak/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ryanleak
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ryanleak
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqoJtQgM2gMlGf8BaZIZglw

Key Quotes:
1. “What’s so bad about failure?”
2. “Failure is the common denominator of the most successful people in the world.”
3. “You gotta miss some shots to make some shots.”
4. “Your calendar will determine the trajectory of your life.”
5. “You gotta spend money to make money.”
6. “We long for routine.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Chasing Failure” by Ryan Leak: https://amzn.to/3ru3dw2

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager again i’ve got a special guest an amazing gentlemen you’re gonna have some surprises in store today but welcome to the show Ryan Leak.


Ryan Leak: Man what an honor it is to be here i’m really looking forward to this conversation.


David Horsager: Likewise, well you know a little bit about Ryan, many of you might know him he speaks all over the world, he affects maybe 50,000 or more people a month, he is an executive coach he’s an author he’s a filmmaker he you know we have so many mutual friends.


David Horsager: This is finally have a little bit more intimate intimate connection but there’s no surprises about you, we just got to.


David Horsager: get out of the way if anybody seen the documentaries both of the phoenix suns and also tell us, just a quick.


David Horsager: Quick quick story about this marriage proposal you proposed and got married the same day.


David Horsager: After two years of planning.


David Horsager: yeah get into your book and how that even aligns with really who you.


Ryan Leak: Are but tell all of that.


Ryan Leak: Well, when me my wife or native native for five years you’re 30 I or Tele French thought would be cool to get engaged married on the same day, I had no idea what that meant, so I guess it started planning a wedding behind her back June 7 2013.


Ryan Leak: get down on one knee instead of manda we marry me, she said yes, I said just getting we marry me today.


Ryan Leak: And we opened up this lounge room door and about 85 of our family and friends are standing in there with the sign that said today rolled in the dress hair stylist makeup artist.


Ryan Leak: Everything that you would need to get engaged and married on the same day, but that, on YouTube about four months later, went viral guys to do.


Ryan Leak: a bunch of TV shows, and you know, led to a bunch of fun stuff which actually is how we actually even got the book chasing failure because we want to clean the TV show.


Ryan Leak: And on the TV show my wife surprise me by getting me connected with the late, great Kobe bryant and I was like oh my gosh what is happening right now, and so colby invited me out to staple Center.


Ryan Leak: To just come hang out with the lakers and I played college basketball was an all American.


Ryan Leak: At a D3 ish school why I say D3 is is because our D3.


Ryan Leak: status was pending the years I was playing, and so we were in not the nc double a we were in the ncc double eight which stands for for national Christian college athletics association, so I like to say, amongst Christians.


Ryan Leak: I was really, really good but I never I never pursued the pros and so getting ready to meet Kobe i’m thinking man I gotta I gotta go for this and I just realized the odds were stacked against me and then I was gonna fail.


Ryan Leak: And then I woke up the next day and said but what’s so bad about failure, I mean isn’t this the common denominator of the most successful people in the world, so let’s give it a shot, so that is, that is how chasing failure, the book was birthed and that’s a little bit about me.


David Horsager: that’s a great start and you’ve got two amazing kiddos and amazing wife, but your whole you know if I look at your life and what you’re about.


David Horsager: you’ve done some amazing things, but it is marked by this risk taking this willingness to.


David Horsager: Face failure and I love what you say in the book even.


David Horsager: Basically, the the own the people you admire the people you love the people you look up to they all failed, and yet we’re all sitting here thinking we want to get around the failure we want to and you kind of make this this point of let’s chase failure if we want to be like that.


Ryan Leak: Absolutely you just I think we all if let’s say we’re a songwriter we all want to write a hit song you only want to write hits but you got to write some bad songs to get a hit song.


Ryan Leak: You got to miss some shots to make some shots I mean it’s all a part of solid part of the process, no matter anybody in this world that wants to do anything.


Ryan Leak: They have to try things and I think the last.


Ryan Leak: Three years somebody said this to me, the other day, they said i’m not sure if i’m ready for my junior year of Kobe and I just thought has it been that long it really have but i’d like to say, the last three years.


Ryan Leak: i’ve really taught us that if you’re not innovating if you’re not thinking outside the box, you may not survive in this marketplace that that we work in because things are constantly changing and most people don’t like change and cove at 19 did not ask us for permission.


Ryan Leak: And so I think people now more than ever.


Ryan Leak: have to be willing to try something and take some risk.


David Horsager: How do you how do you do it, so you know you took a risk your wife said yes oh lovely story I get to be on a little queen latifah show.


David Horsager: You take some risks.


David Horsager: You know there wasn’t a huge downside, with getting a try it with the sons, even though you didn’t make the.


David Horsager: team right.


David Horsager: hello, even though it’s amazing right but, but now, what are you doing to chase failure now, what are you doing you’re going.


David Horsager: To be you know executive coach to pro athletes and you’re getting to speak in some of the biggest platforms in the world.


David Horsager: yeah what how are you chasing failure now.


Ryan Leak: Well, you know it’s The funny thing about I think all successful people not even just myself is we give the illusion.


Ryan Leak: Of highlights, we give the illusion that we never have down days that we never get rejected that no one is telling us no, there will never be a published list of guests you’ve requested to be on your show that told you know.


Ryan Leak: it’ll never happen.


David Horsager: Right.


Ryan Leak: or any show no one publishes that yeah I get to speak at some really, really great companies, I have a speaker’s bureau is great they pitched me to 230 companies this year well sure 10 to 15 said yes, but what do you think keeps me up at night.


Ryan Leak: Right those other you know, so you just think about all of those other 215 that that i’m just going what what what did I do wrong.


Ryan Leak: What what what what’s wrong me and so as far as like me and my team go.


Ryan Leak: we’re always chasing failure always trying new things we we came up with this thing the other day called insta documentaries and we were like can we do 62nd documentaries for instagram and so.


Ryan Leak: We budgeted out film the whole deal and it looked great it sounded great the script was just bad and I wrote it and so it’s not me you’ll never see it, but we tried it.


Ryan Leak: Does that make sense, like we were trying to figure out ways to create helpful content that adds value to people’s lives and so.


Ryan Leak: This Friday, we are going to the studio we booked for four hours and a little bit right before I got on this podcast I the the head director is like hey So what do we do on Friday I went great question so really great question.


Ryan Leak: Where where we’re going to we’re going to try some stuff we’re going to film a lot.


Ryan Leak: What will come out of it is still is still tbd but that’s that’s what i’ve been doing my whole life i’ve just been jumping off of the diving board and teaching myself to swim so even with my internal team on the book side of things, was you know we said hey.


Ryan Leak: We need to hit New York Times that’s the goal we’re going to hit New York Times here’s what here’s what here’s what happened, David it was like.


Ryan Leak: Everyone on my team elevated their game everyone started bringing their a game, because the goal was higher, so the book comes out.


Ryan Leak: We we sell more than enough to hit New York Times, you can pull the numbers, you can see how many I sold that week versus the books that were actually on the New York Times, but.


Ryan Leak: I doubt the New York Times, is going to remove Matthew mcconaughey for Ryan league at this stage in my career and so, so we did not hit New York Times and and I was that was a bummer for me, because we we put a lot of energy, a lot of resources and to make that happen.


Ryan Leak: But again, my message of chasing failure is easy to write tougher to live.


Ryan Leak: And we hit USA today, so my friends are like trying to celebrate me they’re like do USA today that’s awesome i’m like no it’s not.


Ryan Leak: it’s not awesome they’re like what’s wrong with you come back to the real world and i’m like you’re right, and I think that is the point of saying hey we’re.


Ryan Leak: we’re going to take a bunch of risk to try some things and and we’re going to we’re going to see see where the where the chips are the chips fall because at the end of the day, it’s all risk.


Ryan Leak: it’s all risky I mean I think some people think oh I don’t wanna I don’t want to take a risk, because what if I fail and it’s like well doing nothing is also risk.


Ryan Leak: yeah it’s.


David Horsager: Much more in that camp, I know it’s good to have people alongside me that you know pause think through stuff, and all this, so we don’t I bought a company one time lost everything in two weeks for our family have just written for my first.


David Horsager: daughter was born and.


David Horsager: You know I learned a lot about what we talked about around here, trust and.


David Horsager: Because I was so quick to trust, people often but there’s there’s all those things.


David Horsager: Create our journey, give us depth and and I would rather be with people that are sure I am I know i’m a little bit that way.


David Horsager: What is it ready fire aim, you know, but I liked him the movement does build momentum does build momentum it’s not always the right answer, certainly, but it’s one of them, I want to talk about a couple takeaways from.


David Horsager: This book and I want to get to what you’re working on next.


David Horsager: Because I don’t really excited about that i’m thinking about that.


David Horsager: And and but but let’s talk about this quick there’s a whole lot of nuggets in the book if you don’t have it chasing failure, it really gives this.


David Horsager: Not just permission, but encouragement exhortation to like you know what you want to be better you’ve got to chase failure first but let’s let’s actually a couple things.


David Horsager: The the idea of motivational speakers saying you know what what is it good never.


Ryan Leak: give up like this never give up.


David Horsager: ish right true statement.


David Horsager: But what about these five questions.


David Horsager: You talked about um.


David Horsager: You know who wants to be a millionaire five questions you need to ask yourself to count the cost of your dream.


David Horsager: yeah tell us about it.


Ryan Leak: So I think it’s important that.


Ryan Leak: You know, whenever it is that whatever it is that we’re trying to accomplish one, we need to know why we’re doing it, I mean some people want to do it just because they either want to be famous they want to be admired by.


Ryan Leak: A certain group of people, or maybe they want to be rich, you know, whatever their reason may be, I think you just need to have a good reason, a good why.


Ryan Leak: And I think when most people think of the word million million is sort of a gold standard for everything, a million downloads million customers a million dollars a million million million million well.


Ryan Leak: When you think about it, it looks great from a distance until you talk to people who have a million followers That means they also have a million opinions.


Ryan Leak: And also means that they they could have a million critics, I mean there’s so much that comes with anybody that achieves anything anything million, you know you look at professional athletes and.


Ryan Leak: There are some of the only people in the world who salaries are plastered all over the Internet and people look at that and try and like put it in their face and go Look how much money you made this year and it’s like.


Ryan Leak: yeah dependent on the state that they live and they might get half that maybe you know, and so you think about.


Ryan Leak: Man it’d be great to make $40 million and being an MBA but you’ve never written a check for 17 million to the irs because that’s what a lot of athletes have to do and so.


Ryan Leak: So the question that I really pose to people in the book is going, are you sure you really want to be a millionaire are you really sure.


Ryan Leak: That you want to be as successful as you think you might want to be, because your relationships change the more success that you have.


Ryan Leak: People feel like you owe them access that your phone number should be given to thousands of people and how do you do that, how do you who do you respond to.


Ryan Leak: You have to build a team that means you get to be a good leader, there are lots of things, on the other side of.


Ryan Leak: of being a millionaire so till we out we outlined some questions that we think are very important for people thinking about their goals you know, one of the one of the biggest questions.


Ryan Leak: Is you know how do How do people that I view a successful whether they’re a millionaire or have a million downloads or a million subscribers whatever it is, how do they spend their time.


Ryan Leak: What what what is what is their schedule in my executive coaching practice I tell people all the time.


Ryan Leak: Your calendar will determine the trajectory of your life, what are you spending your time doing if i’m sitting with the C suite executive i’m going.


Ryan Leak: You might think your job is to put out fires, but if that’s all you do you’ll never move this ship in the direction you actually wanted to go, so you are in control of your schedule, it is not dictated.


Ryan Leak: by everyone else around you or the problems, so we have to build leaders to be able to help solve those problems so you’re you’re not achieve firefighter you’re the CEO.


Ryan Leak: And so, so and I think about the disciplines that are required at that level sometimes it’s the resources that you need to you know the old adage, the first thing I heard about businesses get spend money to make money and most people aren’t willing to do that.


Ryan Leak: They they want things to be easy, they want a successful person to glory without their grind.


Ryan Leak: They want their they want a successful successful persons destination without having to wait in line at all.


Ryan Leak: And so I think behind the scenes of any successful person you hear some stories that you go you never posted that on instagram you never I never saw that to eat, I never saw that story.


Ryan Leak: And so I think, overall, the question that I think all of us should be asking whenever we admire somebody whether it’s on our phone or somebody we actually know, I think we should be asking the question, what does it cost to be you.


Ryan Leak: What what is.


Ryan Leak: What what what don’t people see and and I think that that’s a very, very important question that we should ask.


David Horsager: That jumps in to really maybe we’ll go back and forth you a little bit, but some of the new work that you’re.


David Horsager: Working on and probably inspired with some of your Executive coaching and everything else is self leadership and.


Ryan Leak: Thinking about.


David Horsager: How do you lead yourself, well, I want to ask you, first because I asked us to almost have everybody, because I, at least I have found.


David Horsager: yeah i’m doing well and in others, that I respect that those that are leading others.


David Horsager: yeah both have the opportunity to to be a part of the lives of presidents of countries and companies and and and yet we’re flying a load and i’m thinking about things I did well and things I regret from as my four kids are moving on first one in college this year and thinking through.


David Horsager: How would I do this, how am I going to do these this next season.


David Horsager: Because.


David Horsager: If you’re on a couple hundred flights, a year and you’re doing all the things you do, how are you leading yourself well.


Ryan Leak: yeah you know it is a.


Ryan Leak: it’s attention to manage I like to say, and there are some month I just take off.


Ryan Leak: I don’t do anything.


David Horsager: Is that systemized i’m gonna jump in here a little bit is that.


David Horsager: A system like I always do that or I just like oh I don’t have work so i’ll take this month up, I mean.


David Horsager: How do you.


David Horsager: yeah is that a sabbatical every year for a month is that, how do you do that, I know, Ken blanchard studies that, basically, you know here, he is.


David Horsager: A unit, you know, and I know people that are at that should not be talking to anybody anymore.


David Horsager: they’re saying the same thing they were 40 years ago.


David Horsager: and bringing up people like Ken blanchard who are at and they’re fresh and relevant and capable and wise still and I think part of it goes to every summer.


David Horsager: Basic is up at the lake with his family writing reading thinking and he does that, as part of his life but he’s got this system, every year, what, what do you think.


Ryan Leak: Mines August, as my birthday mom.


Ryan Leak: And my kids are getting ready to go back to school and that’s that’s that’s where I I typically retreat, I know that November in April, are always going to be what I call gauntlet months for me to conferences and.


Ryan Leak: People are always doing you know a lot of conventions and seminars and different things like that so November is even crazier than April, because everyone’s going their last meeting before the holidays so.


Ryan Leak: So I.


David Horsager: salute so let me just ask you, is it like okay hey here’s a quarter million dollars to do this project is that an absolute no in August, if I call you or is that a is that a well now we’ll shift around and maybe do this because we got that.


Ryan Leak: For quarter mil.


Ryan Leak: or quarter mil, we are sending out an extra week off in July, you know my view like there’s there’s.


Ryan Leak: You know, but, but again that’s what people don’t tell you about success, because you think Oh, I would never say no at that level.


Ryan Leak: But you’d be surprised when when you have to, and I think the reason it’s not so systematic is because, as you understand even more than I do, having older kids.


Ryan Leak: Is seasons change and kids are into certain things that you really need to be President, so this past summer my my son was in soccer.


Ryan Leak: But he wasn’t all that into soccer and so you’re measuring like How important is it for me to.


Ryan Leak: To be here, I want to be here i’m gonna do my best to be here.


Ryan Leak: But if that it can’t be here i’m not the I don’t subscribe to the you got to be at every single game every single event, but I do think that you have to be President, you have to be engaged in what’s happening in your kids lives.


Ryan Leak: It would be a shame if you are winning at work and losing at home.


Ryan Leak: And you know I say that.


David Horsager: yeah I absolutely agree with that, I mean, I want to be a hero at home and yet we’re called to these lives of trying to.


David Horsager: You know, in our in our world change trust levels and countries and cultures and worlds, and I do think there’s there’s actually a problem on the other side it’s not an out, but this problem of kids centric culture.


David Horsager: Where the.


David Horsager: Center I if you don’t miss the game you’re you know you’re a bad person or bad dad I think that’s the worst we one of the best parent well.


David Horsager: Actually, the book, there was some frustrating parts of it that I don’t agree with, but this one parenting book, I read, one of the key positive positives was your child is a welcome member of the family.


David Horsager: There are welcome members that they’re not the Center.


David Horsager: Here, and I think we can teach a lot of entitlement and host or things, everything is about them, I do not think I think my kids is that you are present, you are there you’re with me, you are you.


David Horsager: i’m at certain things I want to be at but i’m also texting videoing doing all these things to stay connected or trying.


David Horsager: to fit in perfectly.


David Horsager: I can tell you times i’ve done, I wish I would have done it differently, and all this, but I also am with you that i’m the mark of a great parent I know parents that are there every day they’re not connected to so.


Ryan Leak: 100% and I just I get to meet the adult.


Ryan Leak: That.


Ryan Leak: said.


Ryan Leak: One of two things either i’m successful in my career or I have a great relationship with my parents, because my parents read everything.


David Horsager: Right.


Ryan Leak: I never heard anyone say that but yeah we do have a cultural pressure to be at everything i’m just going, why is not a predictor of.


Ryan Leak: Future better relationship or future success now again complete absence is definitely a future indicator of something not being successful but I don’t think that that’s the that’s the intent and so So for me there’s their seasons, where August is a.


Ryan Leak: You know we’re not doing anything in August again Cohen it’s like hey will you turn on your computer into a virtual event for an hour sure.


Ryan Leak: But why not, but as far as like hey there might be a no travels and i’ll do that a couple of times a year actually where I didn’t know travel for two weeks, three weeks.


Ryan Leak: And you know my son is now starting basketball, which is a whole different ballgame because it’s like hey are you going to coach i’m like.


Ryan Leak: I don’t know this this particular season, I told him hey I i’m not going to coach but I will be there with the whistle on the side and how about what practices and whatnot and he and a friend, are doing it after this winter.


Ryan Leak: And i’ll be able to make you know, most of the Games, but not all of them, and so you know every every season is just a little bit different.


David Horsager: What about this, what about routines that like daily routines for you to stay.


David Horsager: You know.


David Horsager: Some of the work you’re you’re you’re thinking about is self leadership, what do you health wise faith wise family wise, what are you doing every single day are there some routines you have.


Ryan Leak: I tried to take my son to school every single day, and we do a verse of the day I want his mind to be solid and.


Ryan Leak: You know i’d love to say that that’s always been a daily routine.


Ryan Leak: in Texas, he just started kindergarten last year, but in Texas you don’t have to go to kindergarten and because of the back and forth with hey you got to be home for two weeks and we just homeschool them so.


Ryan Leak: You know he’s only been at school now two months, so the routine routine changes and there’s so many different worlds that i’m bouncing in between, I think we long for routine, but one of them from me just as a writer and a speaker i’m reading and writing every single day.


David Horsager: something you do when you do that when you when you’re reading right when’s the when’s your best time.


Ryan Leak: It just it just depends, you know, and I talked about this in my next book is this trying to be this.


Ryan Leak: Well, rounded person and trying to score tend in every area, spiritually vocationally marriage parenting.


Ryan Leak: Health wise eating healthy working out, you know so yesterday I jumped up my son.


Ryan Leak: One of my friends, has a gym and shooting machine and his house and lives, you know 1010 to 15 minutes away and i’m like hey, can I start paying you didn’t just have a gym membership to go here.


Ryan Leak: And so, yesterday I felt like a really great routine and i’m like I think I could do that i’m going to try again tomorrow.


Ryan Leak: But, but then again in November it’s the gauntlet month I just don’t know that i’ll be able to.


Ryan Leak: And I think naturally i’ve always been just like a fit person my metabolism is pretty high as well, and so just being in my peak shape is difficult to do also while traveling and so.


Ryan Leak: I wish I had more of a routine, but I would say, the thing that is a staple in my life is my to do lists so every Sunday night or Monday morning I create a very.


Ryan Leak: Particular to do lists, that is categorized by all the different buckets that my life has from speaking from church to.


Ryan Leak: How many guys on that in a week.


David Horsager: How many how many things.


Ryan Leak: uh I can show it to.


Ryan Leak: 60.


David Horsager: And, and what percentage of wins of the 60 I know you’ve got something in the book about just getting a daily win, but what do you, what do you have for like what’s what’s likely out of those you can all these things you get 30 done.


Ryan Leak: uh So this was this is one from last week I got.


Ryan Leak: yeah I will say, by the end of the week i’m if I have 60 things on there.


Ryan Leak: Probably 55.


Ryan Leak: yeah probably going to defy and i’ll put some things on there, so, for example, at the beginning of October I said, you need to write all of your content for November before October so.


Ryan Leak: The reason I do that, so that in November, while i’m working a lot when I do get home, I can really be home and not really need to think about what I got going next.


Ryan Leak: Does that make sense, so yeah I tried to do some things ahead of time.


Kent Svenson: Hey it’s Kent Svenson, producer of The Trusted Leader Show here.


Kent Svenson: That’s it for this week’s episode. But make sure to tune in to next week’s episode for part 2 of David’s interview with Ryan Leak.


Kent Svenson: In it, Ryan gives us a preview of his 12 questions for self leadership


Kent Svenson: talks about the greatest tool for bringing about change in diversity, equity, and inclusion, and he discusses the importance of those in power giving access and opportunity to those who don’t.


Kent Svenson: You won’t want to miss next week’s powerful episode.


Kent Svenson: But that’s it for now. Thanks so much for being here. And until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 58: Allison Shapira on How To Use Communication Skills To Build Trust

In this episode, David sits down with Allison Shapira, Former Opera Singer Turned Entrepreneur, Keynote Speaker, and Public Speaking Expert, to discuss how to use communication skills to build trust.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Allison’s Bio:
Allison Shapira is a former opera singer turned entrepreneur, keynote speaker, and expert in public speaking. She is the Founder/CEO of Global Public Speaking LLC, a communication training firm and certified woman-owned small business that helps people speak clearly, concisely, and confidently – both virtually and in person. She teaches public speaking at the Harvard Kennedy School and has spent nearly 20 years developing leadership communication programs for Fortune 50 companies, government agencies, and non-profit organizations around the world. Allison is a Certified Virtual Presenter and a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP). She holds a master’s degree in public administration from the Harvard Kennedy School and is the author of Speak with Impact: How to Command the Room and Influence Others (HarperCollins Leadership) which was a Washington Post best-seller. She was a finalist for 2017 Woman Business Owner of the Year by the National Association of Women Business Owners, San Diego Chapter. She lives in the Washington, DC area.

Allison’s Links:
Website: https://allisonshapira.com/
“Speak with Impact” by Allison Shapira: https://amzn.to/3r7aMJ9
Global Public Speaking: https://www.globalpublicspeaking.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonshapira/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allisonshapira/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/allisonshapira
Twitter: https://twitter.com/allisonshapira
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/AllisonShapira

Key Quotes:
1. “Good communication at its very core is about building trust with your audience.”
2. “Speak the truth.”
3. “Own your own style.”
4. “In order for us to trust someone we have to feel like we know them.”
5. “The tone of our voice communicates more than the words themselves.”
6. “Make sure that the power of your voice matches the power of your words.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Speak with Impact” by Allison Shapira: https://amzn.to/3r7aMJ9
“True Spirit” by Jessica Watson: https://amzn.to/3nQVYMo
“Applied Improvisation” by Theresa Robbins Dudeck and Caitlin McClure: https://amzn.to/3rbpw9I

Buy David’s NEWEST book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have a special friend and guest with welcome allison shapira how are you.


Allison Shapira: hi David what a treat to be with you.


David Horsager: Oh, it is my treat so we got to dive right in but she is a former opera singer turned entrepreneur author speaker educator she teaches at the Harvard Kennedy.


David Horsager: school and she recently became a real authentic best seller of speak with impact, how to command the room and influence others we’re going to talk about all of that.


David Horsager: Before we do just give us what’s it what are a couple other thoughts I mean I know you speak like you can you can speak in 10 languages and you’re fluent in about four So what are a couple of things we should know about allison.


Allison Shapira: Everything that you said is is is so helpful, thank you, David and I really wouldn’t add anything to that, although I could give you a laundry list of other random facts such as I am a new sailboat racer so that’s something that i’m doing.


Allison Shapira: On the side is crewing on people’s sailboats and Annapolis Maryland so that’s a fun fact that we can share.


David Horsager: Well, you know what my brother was just out of the boat show the big boat show was it last week were you there.


Allison Shapira: There were two there was the sailboat show and the power boat show, I went to both of them.


David Horsager: Okay, she he is a sailboat guy, in fact, I have a guy gave on the team here who sails many, many, many weekends here until the ice freezes in.


David Horsager: in Minnesota but that’s that’s very interesting well there’s a lot a lot there around trust and leadership and working together and everything else so.


David Horsager: Well we’ve become friends and i’m so grateful for it, I think you’re brilliant, I think.


David Horsager: You know so much of what you do is just it’s so it just the way you do it also is engaging and cool and fun and so.


David Horsager: We are hoping i’m telling this out loud to everybody listening we’re hoping to find out by tomorrow if allison is able to be one of our keynote speakers at.


David Horsager: The trusted leader summit April 12 through the 14th we believe she’ll be on the main stage we’re going to find out within 24 hours so.


David Horsager: By the time this drops people will know if she’s on the on the agenda or not, but let’s get going on some of what we’re going to be talking about there.


David Horsager: we’re going to come back to personal leadership in a moment, but I want to just start with this book speak with impact would tell us about you know what can people expect if they haven’t read it, and why did you write it.


Allison Shapira: I wrote the book, because everyone kept asking me what book do I recommend, on teaching public speaking or learning public speaking, and I said well there’s this book there’s that book but there’s no one book.


Allison Shapira: That walks you through the process of writing delivering practicing improving on your public speaking skills so that’s why I set out to write the book and it was less of.


Allison Shapira: less of a book about public speaking and more of a handbook for the busy professional moving up in their career who wants to speak with impact using their voice at work or in their community.


David Horsager: If i’m not mistaken Warren Buffett said, if you want to double your riches if you want to double your your wealth, he said, the one thing you should do not investment advice, not all these other things, he said, the one thing you need to do is learn how to communicate better right.


Allison Shapira: He said, is exactly true that’s right your wealth.


David Horsager: Those that can communicate whether it’s in the boardroom or on the platform so you’re helping people do it, and what I love and, of course, as you know, the way we we think around here around trust.


David Horsager: everything’s about building trust you and I have had a funny fun little banter about something I say from the stage and that how that is you know, I was an undergrad I was a communication major.


David Horsager: So, but, but one of the fun things I say trying to get people’s attention, but I believe it is.


David Horsager: Communication is never a core issue it’s always a trust issue just like I say leadership is never a core issue that.


David Horsager: The reason you follow leader, not as trust the reason you buy from someone or not is is trust, not a sales issue, not an innovation issue, not even a diversity equity inclusion issue, I talked about how it’s actually the core Oh, is a trust issue.


David Horsager: But, on the communication front, I often then we get into the pillars of trust and save see it’s.


David Horsager: it’s clear clear communication is stress it unclear isn’t compassion is trusted hateful isn’t and we go through the they pose of trust, but in the midst of that tell us your perspective.


Allison Shapira: Well, I remember hearing you say that the first time, a number of years ago and I wrote it down, and I even wrote and highlighted quote this, because it really impacted me and I I I believe it’s true and.


Allison Shapira: I don’t like this.


Allison Shapira: Well it’s because it it’s based on on bad communication is not the issue, so I believe good communication at it’s very core is about building trust with your audience and so, if you don’t have the trust.


Allison Shapira: The communication will fall flat, but when you have the trust of your audience and you use your communication skills to to not only establish but to reinforce and continue building that trust, then it can be a very powerful part of the issue, so it really depends on how we view communication.


David Horsager: So we agree, basically, and this is a this has been a fun.


David Horsager: that’s right conversation you’ve got a few ways that you believe you can use communication to build trust.


Allison Shapira: would give us give us a few.


David Horsager: Of those tips right off we love to start right in punchy and I want to, I want to you know suck the marrow of life out of your brilliant brain as fast as we can, this is my.


David Horsager: This is my free consulting that you would normally get 10s of thousands of dollars for right, so no I appreciate you being here.


David Horsager: and sharing with our trusted leader audience, but what.


David Horsager: What are some ways that we can you know use communication to actually you know build trust.


Allison Shapira: And there are three specific ways, I believe, at least three ways i’m sure you and I could come up with many more, and our listeners and viewers can come up with many more, but the first way in which we use communication skills to build trust is by speaking the truth.


Allison Shapira: And I know that sounds obvious like something we should do already, but when we say speak the truth, I mean use your own words when communicating.


Allison Shapira: Not company jargon or or bureaucratic language but use words that resonate with you.


Allison Shapira: And so that then they can resonate with others, so the first, the first step is to speak the truth, the second step is to make sure every part of you is communicating the same thing.


Allison Shapira: So when I speak my words are saying one thing my eyebrows my smile is saying something else, and my tone of voice is also communicating So the idea is if there’s a disconnect between what we say and how we say it.


Allison Shapira: That that lack of clarity and consistency as you talk about in our communication reduces the audience’s trust in us because they don’t know what to believe, and so what I want people to do is recognize every part of them should be communicating the same message.


David Horsager: This before we jumped to number three this gets to something you say that I love and you talk about this and I think you’re right about it in your book, and that is authenticity over perfection.


Allison Shapira: that’s like.


David Horsager: This I mean we trust those that are authentic over perfect, in fact, some people almost seem to perfect I don’t trust them.


Allison Shapira: that’s right that’s right we see somebody on stage and when they’re perfect and we do this with people in all industries, whether it’s politics or business when we see someone and they appear to be perfect.


Allison Shapira: We deep down, know that perfection is impossible, so we start to miss trust that person, we wonder what are they hiding what isn’t going right for them, and so that that second guessing of.


Allison Shapira: That person speaking, is it is, it can be really destructive to our trust in them, so when we’re imperfect now.


Allison Shapira: It doesn’t mean unprepared, we still need to prepare be prepared, and we need to be accurate, but a lot of people, especially in public speaking spend way too much.


Allison Shapira: time trying to create the perfect the perfect meeting opener the perfect question at an event the perfect speech and what they’re what they’re striving for is impossible and.


Allison Shapira: counterproductive, so the authenticity comes out when when we let ourselves make little mistakes in our communication, but recognizing that we’re still being authentic to our message.


David Horsager: This reminds me.


David Horsager: I might have shared this before on this show, but you know, I was it was 20 some years ago is always.


David Horsager: kind of a mentor of mine, he was the head of imagineering at Disney said if you’re going to be speaking, you need to go to the national storytelling festival.


David Horsager: You just need to go, so it was a 19 I think 99 maybe seven or something that I went to the national storytelling festival jonesboro Tennessee.


David Horsager: This tiny little town beautiful quaint little village in Tennessee that Alston expands to 100 200,000 people for this, you know this, four days or five days or whatever they come from around the world.


David Horsager: And you’d have these events with you know few hundred people here 50 people there and then in the evening or at the big tent you’d have you know 2000 people watching.


David Horsager: Some people, you might have to pay extra for the ticket and I remember the first night I was just blown away i’d seen amazing you know storytelling from Africa from you know the appalachian whatever and and I watched this lady.


David Horsager: And she was 90 some years old, and she stood at an old fashioned straight microphone kind of like what I have here, people are watching, but a straight Mike with a cord, you know no hand gestures just standing there telling her story, and if I look at an audience that.


David Horsager: rapt attention, not a movement, not a sound from anybody, they were hanging on every word I wish I wish I could remember the lady’s name, and it was hanging there watching and I in that moment, what is it what is it.


David Horsager: Mostly she’s just plain authentic.


David Horsager: that’s, why does she not this big i’m not saying don’t use um you know gestures or do use them.


David Horsager: i’m not saying use voice they’re not using i’m saying, she was just what it was, for her was just the authenticity people were just hanging on every word.


David Horsager: And so I learned it’s not all this necessarily a toastmaster Armor on it’s not this or that and move around the stage it’s just being her was just so powerful authentically.


Allison Shapira: it’s so true and and that’s what’s so important as people recognize everyone has different communication styles different personality styles.


Allison Shapira: So if you’re introverted it’s not about becoming extroverted so that you can be a powerful speaker or communicator it’s it’s owning your own style and then bringing the best version of yourself on stage into the meeting room into the zoom room, just as you would offstage.


David Horsager: Absolutely, and I can’t be her I can’t do it without moving my hands.


Allison Shapira: I can’t not even know, can I mute mute it moving my hands but that’s part of my communication style, this is authentic to me.


David Horsager: Yes, undeniably let’s jump to number three.


David Horsager: Great way I.


Allison Shapira: was ready to jump in with that third way of using our communication skills to build trust now and it’s two parts it’s it’s about using active verbs.


Allison Shapira: And following our words with actions and that gets back to when you say communication is never the issue, trust is so often, we can speak in a way that either addresses an issue directly.


Allison Shapira: or or or tries to take a lack of responsibility in the way that we communicate so use direct verbs that address an issue head on and then, when you’re done speaking.


Allison Shapira: follow those words with action and that’s what continues to build trust, because if you simply speak and then don’t take action that action is a form of communicating you’re communicating with your feet with your hands and both are critical in the act of leadership.


David Horsager: The only way to rebuild trust we say is to make and keep a commitment it’s not the apology i’m sorry i’m late no you’re not you’re late every time right i’m sorry i’m late i’m sorry i’m sorry.


David Horsager: doesn’t mean we don’t apologize use the words but they have to be followed by action.


David Horsager: Tell me an example on that first half give us a little clarity on using action or active verbs.


David Horsager: Like How would i’ve got a senior leader dealing with a terrible i’ve got a couple consultant calls the day, where we had senior leaders they’ve got their.


David Horsager: Their people are throwing darts at that senior leader for all the things they’re doing wrong, but how would I then go communicate to my team using active verbs and then follow up, can you give me a scenario.


Allison Shapira: i’ll give you an example, so very often you’ll hear a leader communicate and use passive verbs mistakes were made um vs I dropped the ball.


Allison Shapira: I failed my team we failed you so it’s that’s what I mean when I say active.


Allison Shapira: Active verbs active tense, as opposed to passive tense so i’m taking responsibility and and exactly as you said, it’s not i’m not just apologizing i’m taking responsibility, which means things will be different moving forward so that’s what I mean in terms of the message.


David Horsager: So this is great now you’re jumping all over the place here because I have so many questions for you, but you I mean you were a concert cellist right or a.


David Horsager: voice.


Allison Shapira: vocal vocalist.


David Horsager: yeah concert vocalist.


Allison Shapira: Yes, and I had I had I was a cellist but I wasn’t.


David Horsager: I feel like you’re you’ve got all these capabilities, but I know.


David Horsager: You know you have that level of preparation, there you are a prepared tell me a little bit about preparing now for let’s say whether you’re teaching at Harvard or you’re speaking to a an executive team or doing a keynote, how do you prepare.


Allison Shapira: I always ask three questions before I craft a presentation, or even prepare for this podcast or prepare for my class at the Kennedy school and I, and I teach.


Allison Shapira: The people we work with to ask these three questions as well, they seem very simple very simple but they’re actually quite complex and those questions are who’s your audience what’s your goal and why you and by why you I don’t mean, why are you qualified, I mean, why do you care.


Allison Shapira: Because we asked these three questions the audience, we asked about so that we understand what will resonate with them, where are they where do we need to get them to go.


Allison Shapira: So how do we connect with them on their level using language that will inspire or connect with them.


Allison Shapira: what’s our goal means, what do I want to happen as a result of what i’m about to say what outcome, do I want to see, and then why you why do you care means Why am I inspired by this topic, or why am I simply proud.


Allison Shapira: Of this work, because then the language that you choose is authentic and as a result is more powerful so nobody answers why you with to increase shareholder value.


Allison Shapira: The answer, why you with because when I was a child, I saw my parents get taken advantage of by their financial advisor and now.


Allison Shapira: As a financial advisor my goal is to make sure nobody has the experience that I had growing up.


Allison Shapira: So it’s it’s getting them to tap into that authentic connection.


Allison Shapira: To the message and then that authenticity, as you know, brings out, it makes it more more readily possible for someone to trust them because, in order for us to trust someone, we have to feel like we know them and that why you brings out a way that others can relate to you.


David Horsager: I think if people ask these three questions, we would not just have less boring presentations we’d actually have.


David Horsager: Much more importantly relevant presentations relevant to us what if we made it about the audience were serving What if we made it about the goal taking them from here.


David Horsager: If people would instead of just presenting thinking i’ve got to do this presentation if they valuable, what is the goal we actually have a chance, because we have a target right, I think a lot of people.


Allison Shapira: it’s true it’s true and and it goes even deeper than a presentation, because so many people will work with will say.


Allison Shapira: Well, I I give presentations from time to time, but every day i’m running meetings i’m meeting clients i’m running small group meetings, one on one meetings.


Allison Shapira: And those three questions I actually recommend you ask yourself before every meeting or in the negative two minutes that you have in between zoom or webex calls.


Allison Shapira: pause and breathe ask these three questions and then they help you refocus and reset so that when you log into that call you bring your best most strategic mindset to that call, which I think is invaluable from a leadership perspective.


David Horsager: let’s go let’s get to you, I want to follow up later on in a couple moments here with the book a little bit more, but before we get there, we go back there allison shapira you’re an advisor to many are speaking on these stages, you know, like trusted leader summit and even bigger.


David Horsager: But what you know how do you what we’ve at least found is people that are great leaders with.


David Horsager: Those they’re educating it, you know Kennedy Harvard.


David Horsager: or senior leaders that you advise or companies you advisor they’re leading themselves somehow.


David Horsager: Personally, how are you leading yourself what do you have daily routines do you have whether it’s physical spiritual social relational, let us inside a little bit, what do you, what do you do it.


Allison Shapira: I do have several routines and and this process became even more important during the pandemic when so many of the things that we normally do.


Allison Shapira: Who are for sustenance such as spending time with family and friends or traveling to new destinations.


Allison Shapira: Was was taken away, and so I asked myself what do I need to do to provide for my own happiness and inspiration that’s within my power.


Allison Shapira: And, and what i’ve started doing is first and foremost meditation starting my day with 20 minutes for me of transcendental meditation.


Allison Shapira: But anytime I can simply sit in silence and an either turn off my thoughts or let my thoughts run and and be creative about the day that I want to see or about the person, I want to be that quiet time for contemplation is critical.


Allison Shapira: I also need to have some sort of physical exercise whether it’s tennis or running or paddleboard I my my good mood comes from me exercising and so that has to be a daily part.


David Horsager: i’ve never.


David Horsager: seen you in a good mood.


Allison Shapira: we’re.


Allison Shapira: All have our bad days we just.


David Horsager: don’t you must exercise every time I said.


David Horsager: So tell me so what’s your, how do you schedule that, by the way, hey you’re busy you got to teach this class you gotta go meet with that executive you gotta you know how do you schedule in your physical exercise.


Allison Shapira: I woke up at 520 this morning, so that I could make a six o’clock outdoor boot camp and I went to bed at 10.


Allison Shapira: or a little later than 10 but I intended to go to bed at 10 to make that happen, but the idea is.


Allison Shapira: I prioritize it and I wind things down the evening before so that I make sure I do it, and again it’s, not just because I know it’s good for me it’s because I have a physical and chemical reaction.


Allison Shapira: to exercise and the lack there of that for me is is necessary in order to be the best version of myself so i’m lucky in that way that i’m i’m pulled to do this, whereas I know a lot of people just have to force themselves to do it.


David Horsager: almost everybody i’ve ever met that i’ve asked this as far as exercise they either don’t exercise and they don’t know they would have this reaction, or they exercise and they all say I couldn’t do without it.


David Horsager: Like it’s part of my mood is perfect so it’s like if you start exercising this this happens, like it affects the mood it affects your overall health that is affects leadership, quality and all kinds of things.


Allison Shapira: Oh, it does it makes me a better leader of my team because i’m more patient i’m more energetic i’m more optimistic so every it’s in everyone’s best interest to make sure I get my sleep I exercise and I get fresh air those are those are non negotiable for me.


David Horsager: sleep exercise and fresh air that’s it all right anything else on the routine list that we should be thinking about.


Allison Shapira: I also.


Allison Shapira: I also make lists every day in terms of what I want to achieve, and so I make sure that i’m.


Allison Shapira: i’m on track with those lists and i’m also very, very focused with my time so i’m sure you know, when when people know that you.


Allison Shapira: You have your own business, they assume that means you can do Friday brunch or just take Monday off and spend a longer weekend with family and and.


Allison Shapira: And it’s actually the opposite, because we run our own businesses we’re going to work more than the nine to five because we see the direct impact of our work.


Allison Shapira: On our businesses and on others, so that sense of discipline and focus, I actually think of them as my as my superpowers, that the ability to focus on what I need to do to move the business forward.


David Horsager: yeah be an entrepreneur you don’t you don’t have to work camp time right just with 12 hours you work.


Allison Shapira: So insulted if someone asks me for a weekday casual meeting i’m like.


Allison Shapira: don’t don’t you think i’m i’m successful, how do you think I can afford to do that.


David Horsager: What about you know, on this entrepreneurial journey that you, you jumped onto what’s what are what were some of the barriers are things you wish, you would have known you know 20 years ago tipping points.


Allison Shapira: I wish it’s so interesting because there are a number of things that i’m learning that i’ve learned.


Allison Shapira: That i’m glad I didn’t know when I started out, for instance, how long it takes to to to get those first paying clients in the very, very beginning, or how long it will take.


Allison Shapira: To to grow your company, to a certain level that you anticipated it it works, it just works on its own timeline but what I do wish I had known starting out.


Allison Shapira: Is is how important it is to constantly be meeting people and and building those relationships.


Allison Shapira: Because in our industry, it can be, it can be a two to five year sales cycle from when we meet someone to when they actually have the need and the budget.


Allison Shapira: For our help and i’ll meet people at an event.


Allison Shapira: Maybe I don’t think they have the budget, maybe I think they’re too junior in their career and then five years later they’ve moved into a new role and and now they get to make recommendations to somebody else so which I wish I had realized early on.


Allison Shapira: How how incredibly important it is to build that network and it’s, not just for entrepreneurs it’s for anyone looking to to bring people together into in terms of working towards a shared goal it’s a constant process.


David Horsager: you’re constantly speaking of constant processes you’re constantly learning you put a lot of output, whether it’s in the classes or everything else, what do you, what do you learn in these days, or what are you curious about.


Allison Shapira: It so funny you mentioned that because I just took a trip to Chicago for a workshop and I came up with two new modules on the plane flying home from Chicago.


Allison Shapira: And, and it was because I had put some questions out on linkedin because i’m getting ready to do linkedin live and I thought, what are people’s.


Allison Shapira: Questions what issues do they have and nearly everyone responded by saying, I want to learn how to be more concise in my communications everyone responded very few people.


Allison Shapira: Overcoming nerves, which is what I thought they would choose it’s all about brevity, and so I thought.


Allison Shapira: I know a lot about brevity there’s also a lot out there, so I started.


Allison Shapira: combing through books that I had and and researching and looking at different different research papers and then on the plane, I came up with a module on the power of brevity.


Allison Shapira: So i’m constantly thinking about what do people need and what are new ways in which I can help their existing needs.


Allison Shapira: Or what ways can I help them in going forward in new ways and that that commitment to learning is actually really exciting that gives me energy, just like just like boot camp does.


David Horsager: Well, you can see why some brevity is important today in this fast paced noisy culture.


David Horsager: How do we.


David Horsager: get that message across the clear the better right and brevity is often a way there I what I like about this to you know we think about learning.


David Horsager: At least three things come to mind for me quickly travel expands the mind reading expands the mind and the people i’m around this I really love Socratic method I love.


David Horsager: Talking.


David Horsager: With smart people like you think well, what do you think about this, what does this work, you know that that discussion based and that can happen in a mastermind or an accountability group or whatever.


David Horsager: Those three things, but I think it’s interesting this idea popped in your head what you said first is not just i’m learning about brevity, but.


David Horsager: I was on a trip to Chicago like I got out of my comfort zone, and you, you kind of thought of this new idea, while you were away, you know, in a way um.


Allison Shapira: Yes, and and what what’s also, I would add a fourth component to what you’re saying that speaks to why it happened.


Allison Shapira: On a flight to Chicago it happened in a place where all the other distractions were turned off, so no notifications it’s usually the time in which we have to put our clothes our devices, but we can’t open our laptop yet, and so the fourth way that I would add, is silence.


Allison Shapira: Where we turn off we stopped moving.


Allison Shapira: We stopped listening to music we stop exercising whatever it is, and we simply sit and and let our mind go and for me and I forgot this during the the 18 plus months of not traveling I forgot how incredibly creative and productive I am on planes.


Allison Shapira: And it’s because i’m so focused and I can let my mind go.


David Horsager: I love it wow anything you’re reading right now on the you like oh I got a great book right now, or something i’m really love to read and that’s inspiring me.


Allison Shapira: I have a couple of books, I have a book about a 16 year old young woman who sailed around the world by herself.


Allison Shapira: that’s like my parents were very upset when they saw me pick up that book I said don’t worry i’m not doing it, but i’m reading about it.


Allison Shapira: And then i’m on a business side i’ve i’m reading a book on applied improvisation techniques beyond theater.


Allison Shapira: And I, as I mentioned i’m always looking for fun new ways for people to learn.


Allison Shapira: Core critical skills and I believe improv is an incredible way to do that I use a lot of improv already, but what i’m doing is i’m reading these business case studies, about how improv helped companies achieve business results and so.


Allison Shapira: They have all these exercises and i’m updating my curriculum plugging these exercises in as i’m reading the book so again it’s so exciting to plug in new ways of learning.


David Horsager: what’s your, what do you know, the title of it.


Allison Shapira: Is downstairs I can get you.


David Horsager: Know that’s commonly.


David Horsager: Like i’m reading stuff I don’t remember the title either all the time, but I think this is interesting, what I love and you love is applied research, like we love.


David Horsager: The stuff.


David Horsager: We don’t like just some motivational everybody yell yeah we like that the research but, but only we love to apply it to our like, how can this actually make an impact tomorrow morning in someone’s life or in the team, or in the outcomes.


David Horsager: So I like that you know, for me, when people ask you know how did you get better at speaking on the on the way to whatever you’ve you’ve done and and that kind of thing and and I just I think.


David Horsager: It doesn’t just happen, does it it’s like you’re working i’ve had coaches I paid a whole lot i’ve had.


David Horsager: Two things that came to mind from what you said, I took a stand up comedy class never wanted to be a stand up comedian likes you know eight week course twice a week we had to go do stand up boy, you want to.


David Horsager: You want to have critique happen go to a live comedy club, you know and and with people you know.


David Horsager: Who are newbie rated and have their arms crossed saying make me laugh, you know that’s that is tough environment, you can do that and, and if you can keep middle schoolers attention you know.


Allison Shapira: You finally done something right.


David Horsager: But the other course I took was improv and I just think of how that I don’t even know how that plays itself out now in a boardroom or in an executive session, but it does it does it makes me better, and so I think these are you know just great ideas for becoming better.


Allison Shapira: I know exactly how it helps because it helps you think on your feet.


Allison Shapira: Which means you’re more able to come up with creative solutions and handle any question that’s thrown your way and, in my experience when people are overly nervous before.


Allison Shapira: A speech or presentation it’s because they’re nervous about what’s going to happen when they’re unprepared for a question.


Allison Shapira: And so, knowing that they have the improv techniques to get creative and handle any questions thrown their way makes them more confident, which makes them more effective in the actual in that board meeting.


David Horsager: we’re back to communication I love this tell us a couple more tips from the book everybody needs to go get the book i’ve got to.


David Horsager: speak with impact, how to command the room and influence others, give us a couple more tips, as we start to land the plane.


Allison Shapira: Some of the tips, and this is one of my favorite topics that I address because of my background as an opera singer and even now as a continuously performing singer songwriter as well, is how do you harness the power of your breathing.


Allison Shapira: When you communicate and and there are two main benefits to that the way in which we breathe.


Allison Shapira: Can both calm our nerves and project our voice and I talked earlier about the tone of our voice communicates I would say.


Allison Shapira: The tone of our voice communicates more than the words themselves and so when we study breathing techniques, then we learn how to let our most powerful voice out and let it.


Allison Shapira: command the room or command across the camera lens and into someone’s living room or bedroom and so that’s that’s a topic I go into in depth in the book addressing both.


Allison Shapira: How do you use breathing to calm your nerves and self regulate and then, how do you use breathing to project your voice and make sure that the power of your voice matches the power of your words.


David Horsager: what’s one thing left for allison Shapiro, what do you hope for what’s the biggest hope for the future, maybe even the next few years, if you want to do your whole life, but what what’s it kind of hope ahead for you.


Allison Shapira: The more I so appreciate that question, the more I think about what I do the more I realized that it’s not simply about.


Allison Shapira: Public speaking and it’s not even about leadership communication, which is how I broadly address this topic.


Allison Shapira: it’s really about connection it’s about human connection and the more I travel and i’ve led workshops and given keynotes.


Allison Shapira: All over the world in in all different regions and the more I do that the more I realized how fundamentally similar we are we all are.


Allison Shapira: We all get nervous before a speech or presentation and it’s I it’s crazy i’ll meet someone who is.


Allison Shapira: From a country i’ve never been to speaking the language that I don’t speak and when they hear what I do they say oh my God i’m so nervous about public speaking.


Allison Shapira: I don’t want to look foolish in front of my peers and and it doesn’t matter where you’re from it’s human and I wish.


Allison Shapira: Everyone could see how similar we are and see that powerful connection that we have in our capable of tapping into, and if we did I know the world would be a better place in every single way.


Allison Shapira: My goal is that I can broaden that message from leadership communication to the power of human connection and come up with the actionable takeaways for that.


David Horsager: I love it that’s what’s next for allison Shapiro I love it.


David Horsager: Well let’s a reminder here everybody can get the show notes and we’re going to have a picture and everything about the book speak with impact at trusted leader show.com you can see, you can even hold it up there, see that I love it speak with impact.


David Horsager: Right it’s our favorite colors with some red and white, we love that we’re on brand with trust so stick with impact we’re going to put.


David Horsager: links to that in the show notes, I would love it also, if you would email us so before this show drops.


David Horsager: The applied improv techniques that sounds fun and aligning and, if you want to share the other book about the lady that is sailing around the world that’d be fun too, but we will will definitely highlight yours, we hope.


David Horsager: To get to have you at the summit coming up have I done enough like inkling about that if.


Allison Shapira: You have and and you’ve made people so interested that regardless they’re going to go to the website just.


Allison Shapira: i’m speaking there or not, because you’ve built it up so much.


Allison Shapira: I think that was brilliant.


David Horsager: brilliant so that’s that’s trusted leaders summit.com you’ll see thousands there when this show drops and then trusted leader show.com.


David Horsager: will be where I get all the show notes books and connections on all of that, where else can we find out about you allison we want to, we want to know you and people listening today.


David Horsager: are saying I need help with my communication I need to present this speak at that i’m a chair of the board, and I know I haven’t done a great job at this, I need some coaching and a CEO.


David Horsager: Or, I want to come in your class at Harvard Kennedy school but you’re you’re a where can people find out more about you.


Allison Shapira: So I would first encourage people to connect with me personally on linkedin because that’s where i’m the most active i’m constantly posting articles.


Allison Shapira: and thoughts and tips on communication skills and so that’s a way for us to have a dialogue.


Allison Shapira: and communicate then i’d recommend that people visit the website of my company global public speaking, which is global public speaking.com.


Allison Shapira: And you can you can find out, not just about me, but also about our team of trainers and coaches, who work all around the world, with some of the biggest companies in the world.


Allison Shapira: And if you sign up there on that homepage we’ve just released a new workbook called everyday public speaking, which gives you some tips for how you can practice and improve your speaking skills every single day in meetings and presentations.


David Horsager: love it what a gift Thank you so much well last question here we are.


David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show allison, who is a leader you trust and why.


Allison Shapira: There’s a particular woman in Finance, who I really admire her name is katie Knox and she was voted one of the top women in finance just this year and i’ve had the pleasure of working with with her and her team for years.


Allison Shapira: And what I love about her is that when she is on stage communicating.


Allison Shapira: me is the same person on stage as she is offstage and she lives, the values that she communicates so she’s she’s not just about the words she’s also about the action and she does it with a confidence.


Allison Shapira: and authenticity that I know are inspiring to her team and and and are inspiring to me personally.


David Horsager: I love it, we need to share this katie knocks all right, what you just made me think we have seven virtues at trusted leadership institute that’s our inside values, not our values out going out and one of them is be the same on stage and off.


David Horsager: And everybody has a stage for me up our new it might be a literal stage for someone else it might be on the phone, it might be meeting someone in person, I might meet via zoom.


David Horsager: But I love that allison, thank you for sharing your wisdom, today I know there’s a whole lot more in there, but thanks for what you’ve shared today and the way all of us can keep connected with you, I hope to see you soon, for now, that is, the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 57: Len Herstein on The Advantages Of Strategic Unpredictability

In this episode, David sits down with Len Herstein, Business and Brand Marketing Expert, Speaker, and Author, to discuss the advantages of strategic unpredictability.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Len’s Bio:
Len Herstein has over 30 years of experience in business and brand marketing. Prior to founding his marketing and events company (ManageCamp Inc.), Len innovated, managed, and grew brands for major consumer packaged goods marketers, including Coca-Cola, The Campbell Soup Company, and Nabisco. Since 2015, Len has served as a Reserve Deputy Sheriff in Douglas County, Colorado. In his book, Be Vigilant!, Len combines all his experiences to provide a detailed roadmap for individuals and organizations to stop complacency, improve performance, and safeguard the success they’ve worked so hard to achieve.

Len’s Links:
Website: https://lenherstein.com/
“Be Vigilant!” by Len Herstein: https://amzn.to/32jmG8d
Brand Manage Camp: https://brandmanagecamp.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lenherstein/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/lenherstein
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/len.herstein/

Key Quotes:
1. “Complacency kills.”
2. “Success is not the end goal, keeping it is.”
3. “The more success we enjoy, the more likely we are to become vulnerable to complacency.”
4. “Vigilance is the awareness of potential threats.”
5. “The worst time to figure out what you’re going to do in a crisis is when you’re in the crisis.”
6. “The best type of disruption is self-disruption.”
7. “When you’re engaged you’re paying attention.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Be Vigilant!” by Len Herstein: https://amzn.to/32jmG8d
Brand Manage Camp: https://brandmanagecamp.com/

Buy David’s NEWEST book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

david_horsager: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsager, I’m back with


david_horsager: another amazing talent. He’s a marketing and branding expert. He’s worked


david_horsager: with brands like Coca Cola and Campbell Soup Company and Nabisco He’s the


david_horsager: CEO of Brand Manage Camp, and the founder even invited me to speak there


david_horsager: with some other Uh experts. It was a just a fantastic event. You can learn


david_horsager: more about that at Lenhurst Dot Com. We’re going to give you other ways to


david_horsager: reach out to him, but I just want to welcome you to the show. He’s also a


david_horsager: reserve sheriff. How cool is that? So welcome to the show Len Herstein.


len_herstein: Thanks. They. good to see you, man. Good to see you.


david_horsager: It’s great to see you again. I’ll tell you what we’re going to get into it.


david_horsager: I want to talk about your book that you author. Uh, be vigilant before we


david_horsager: do. just give us a uh. you know a sixty seconds onn. who is ▁lynnhrsten?


len_herstein: Yeah, So who isst man? I’m trying to figure out Myge. you know I, I’ve gone


len_herstein: through several ititerations. I started out in consulting, and then I moved


len_herstein: into consumer package, Good brand marketing with the companies that you talked


len_herstein: about from there. I’ gone to a lot of conferences and and couldn’t find the


len_herstein: one I wanted to go to, So I created my own that’ Whereed Braence


len_herstein: just did our nineteenth annual this yearrtually. Um, in two fifteen, I was


len_herstein: looking for a way to uh, give back to the community. I became a reserve


len_herstein: sheriff’s deputy, and then this past year, Um, I kind of combined all my


len_herstein: experiences into this. This vigilant is


len_herstein: sixty secondswese. go big.


david_horsager: yeah, we’re excited here about Bevinton. He’s also a double Cornell grad,


david_horsager: which, uh, We got some family. Uh, that is big on Cornell out here’. got


david_horsager: nephews and um, uh, yeah, cousins y all that, Uh. Cornell University. So


david_horsager: it’s the uh, You know we’re we’re farm people. So it’s kind of the Agg Ivy


david_horsager: League campus. right, so uh, we’re we’re um. kind of mixes it. So


len_herstein: They. they’ve changed the names a bit. But when I was when I was younger and I


len_herstein: actually went to college, I went to the College of Agriculture and Life


len_herstein: Science is a Cornell. So


david_horsager: yeah, great. all right.


david_horsager: let’s let’s jump in here and let’s start with the The book. Be vigilant. I’m


david_horsager: going to jump in here, but give us like wh. Why? why did you write it? And


david_horsager: then I’ got some key questions that I think will be relevant to everybody


len_herstein: Yeah, absolutely so. like I like I mentioned, I, I spent. you know, I, I,


len_herstein: thirty plus years in business and marketing and and brand management. Um, and


len_herstein: then in the last seven years I’ve been doing this, Uh, this law enforcement


len_herstein: thing, I went into thinking that it was going to be completely different than


len_herstein: anything I’ve ever done before. But what I found is that right away there were


len_herstein: things that I was applying back to business in life, and one of the key things


len_herstein: was this concept that complacency kills, And it’s something we spent a lot of


len_herstein: time on in law. enforcement. Um and I started thinking you know what


len_herstein: complacency kills businesses, It kills brands and kills organizations. It


len_herstein: kills personal relationships. Um, and so I started


len_herstein: becoming obsessed about understanding what complacency was and how it


len_herstein: manifests itself and what brings it on, and what, And and started seeing the


len_herstein: things that we do every day in law enforcement to help us fight complacency.


len_herstein: And then the book is about taking that and applying that back to how we can


len_herstein: use that in business in a life.


david_horsager: so we’re going to talk a little bit about it. Everybody’s going to want to


david_horsager: get the book to be vigilant, but I, I want to just ask you know, these days


david_horsager: there’s a lot of people burnt out. They’re burnt out in law enforcement.


david_horsager: they’ burnt out in health care. they’re burnt out in, you know, after the


david_horsager: pandemic, all these kind of things they don’t want to hear about getting


david_horsager: them off there, you know, getting mov, and more, and you know whatever, but


david_horsager: they are even becoming complacent in the midst of this. What what do we say


david_horsager: to them there with empathy? How do we? How do we motivate vigilance now?


len_herstein: Yeah, well, I mean, here’s the thing. What what I tell people is that success


len_herstein: is not the end goal. Keeping it is right, it’s not. It’s not enough to get to


len_herstein: the top of the hill. You have to stay there. You got to figure out a way to


len_herstein: stay there. And what? And And the irony is that the more success we enjoy, the


len_herstein: more likely we are to become vulnerable to complacency. Because we become


len_herstein: overconfident, we become a little self satisfied, and we become comfortable.


len_herstein: And those are all the things that build that right environment for complacency


len_herstein: to grow. So you know, the the message here is not about paranoia, is not about


len_herstein: hyper vigilance. You know what I mean. A lot of times people will think well.


len_herstein: The opposite of complacency is paranoia. Um, but it’s not because here’s the


len_herstein: deal. paranoia is based in fear. paranoia is the fear of potential dangers of


len_herstein: the fear of potential threats. What I preach is vigilance, and vigilance is


len_herstein: the awareness of potential threats. Right. So this is a book about how to


len_herstein: remain aware, right how to build the processes in, so you don’t have to be


len_herstein: thinking about it all the time, so that you are naturally aware that you make


len_herstein: put yourself in the best position to not be caught by surprise, and to be


len_herstein: ahead of the curve. The worst time to figure out what you’re going to do in a


len_herstein: crisis is when you’re in the crisis,


david_horsager: So let’s let’s


len_herstein: So let’s let’s look. One that really hit mepric


david_horsager: lookcause. One of the things that really hit me was get off the ▁x. The


david_horsager: advantages of strategic unpredictability This sounds kind of


david_horsager: crazy like. what do you mean? the


david_horsager: advantages of strategic unpredictability Tell us about this.


len_herstein: Do you meandpric


len_herstein: Yeah, So getting off the ▁x, I mean where it comes from and what we talk about


len_herstein: in law enforcement is this thing called the Udalup o o d a, which stands for


len_herstein: observe Orient de side and act, And this was something that the military came


len_herstein: up with to describe how fighter pilots make decisions And so you observe you


david_horsager: Say this again. I’ve learned this, but I need to hear it one more time.


len_herstein: more. Yeah, so it’s the udaluop, like Guda cheese,


len_herstein: but uda right, but is spelled o o d a


len_herstein: for observe. Orient, decide and act


len_herstein: right. And


len_herstein: here’s the thing. it is a. It is. it is not just a linear process. it’s a


len_herstein: looping process. Right And so


len_herstein: the the game is to get to the action as fast as you can by doing all the


len_herstein: steps. the way the human mind works and way organizations work. Is that if you


len_herstein: disrupt one of those elements,


len_herstein: you you’re forced to go back to the beginning? Right? if you’re observing and


len_herstein: orienting and you’re in the decision phase and then some of your inputs


len_herstein: change. You’ve got to go back and it slows you down the way I, You know. Are


len_herstein: you a football fan?


len_herstein: Okay? so a football fan? so say someone? Uh, say there’s a punt return right


len_herstein: and the punt returner is running straight down the field And you’re a defender


len_herstein: now, And you don’t have to be a mathematical genius to figure out where that


len_herstein: person’s running and how fast, and a what angle you need to run to intercept


len_herstein: them right. But


len_herstein: if all of a sudden they start juking and turning and twisting and spinning,


len_herstein: that’s when you see defenders fall on their butts right. Because what’s


len_herstein: happening is they’ve observed they oriented. They decided they acted and then


len_herstein: everything changed right.


len_herstein: and then they had to re observe, reorient and it messes everything up.


david_horsager: So how do we lets? let’s get. Let’s take this to practical. How do I do


david_horsager: Let’s say in the pandemic, Let’s say in some change, But the truth is you


david_horsager: and I both know there’s a massive change ahead. black chain cryptocurrency.


david_horsager: pro, another pandemic, Maybe in the next decade, You know, we got to get


david_horsager: better at this. We got to get better at in our world, building trust in the


david_horsager: midst of change, But also just be just dealing with this. I like this simple


david_horsager: process. I’ve actually read about this and it just reminded me about it, But


david_horsager: how would I orient Like? Okay, I can see observing. Okay, this is happening.


david_horsager: That’s happening. but how do I orient? decide and take action.


len_herstein: well, so there there’ there’s two. There’s two things Right. One is how do you


len_herstein: get through your process faster? Right


len_herstein: and that’s what you’re talking about. The other thing is how do you slow down


len_herstein: your competition right? And so the strategic unpredictability comes into play


len_herstein: on that second part, which is by remaining strategically unpredictable so that


len_herstein: people can’t pinpoint where you’re going to be or what you’re going to do. You


len_herstein: make slow down our decision process. Now you can speed up your own decision


len_herstein: process through Um, scenario, planning right through. So through this is what


len_herstein: we do a lot in law enforcement. We think about what if what if what? If so


len_herstein: that when the thing actually happens, we don’t have to actually go through the


len_herstein: process of figuring out what we’re going to do. We can move much quicker to


len_herstein: action because it’s


len_herstein: already muscle memory. It’s already brain memory Right. And so that’s what we


len_herstein: need to do in the organization is figure out how are we going to react if this


len_herstein: happens, Because if if we’re sitting back and we’re waiting to observe in an


len_herstein: orient theciing act, we’re going to be slow right. But if we’ve already


len_herstein: prethought if this happens, this is what we’re going to do, and this is how


len_herstein: we’re going to do it. we can move there much quicker,


len_herstein: right So so there’s two pieces to the Udal loop game. Number one is speeding


len_herstein: up your own decision process, right, and number two is slowing your


len_herstein: competitors or your potential competitors By not being so predictable Doesn’t


len_herstein: mean being Willi nearly unpredictable, so that your customer or your


len_herstein: constituent or whoever it is that you’re serving can’t ever figure out what


len_herstein: you’re about or what you’re doing. That’s not what this is about, but it’s


len_herstein: about remaining strategically unpredictable to your competition and to your to


len_herstein: your. Uh. you know competitive set


david_horsager: What what would that look like? Can you give us one example that of a brand


david_horsager: or a company


david_horsager: or someone that’s done that well?


len_herstein: done well strategic.


david_horsager: They’ve been strategically in, predict, because you know, in trust, we talk


david_horsager: a lot about being consistent. I want to know what I going to get every time


len_herstein: A lot about beings want to every know. It be the same every time in many wayss


david_horsager: I know what. It’s going to be the same every time in many ways, But is there


david_horsager: an example so we can get kind of our heads around it?


len_herstein: around it. Yeah, so I mean,


len_herstein: I’ll give you. I’ll give a quick example of someone who’s whos remains


len_herstein: strategically unpredictable, Right and then someone who who hasn’t. So if we


len_herstein: have time, if not, think about Netflix, right,


len_herstein: So everybody wants to talk about Netflix in terms of Netflix and Blockbuster,


len_herstein: right, that’s that’s common. That’s the common


len_herstein: knowledge. right Blckbuster. drop the ballmb, Netflix came in and and redesign


len_herstein: and and took over this industry of video rental. But what people don’t realize


len_herstein: is that what Netflix has done ever since is one of the things I talk about in


len_herstein: strategic unpredictability is self disruption, right, So


len_herstein: the best type of disruption is self disruption, disrupting yourself before


len_herstein: somebody else does. It helps you remain unpredictable, and this is what


len_herstein: Netflix keeps doing right. So Netflix took the video rental business and


len_herstein: changed it. Then they move to streaming. Then they move to uh, their own


len_herstein: content and original content. And now


len_herstein: they just announce that they’re actually getting into gaming and doing games


len_herstein: within their platform


len_herstein: to keep people more engaged right every time every step along the way


len_herstein: May maybe gaming’s not going to work for them right. But what it does is it


len_herstein: keeps everybody else guessing and it keeps everybody else playing catch up,


len_herstein: which slows them down and make sure they’re not the ones doing this. The


len_herstein: disruption. So to me, Netflix would be a


len_herstein: great example of that


david_horsager: good example. What was it quick? What was the other example of someone who


len_herstein: good example. What was it quick? What with the other example of someone who


david_horsager: hasn’t done it and they fell off


len_herstein: hasn’t done it and they fell off. Uh, like everybody in retail. Okay, so so


len_herstein: let you


david_horsager: well and


len_herstein: what. What do itps?


david_horsager: you could go back to your blockbusters like the opposite, Right Kodak, or


david_horsager: you know anybody,


len_herstein: but you know here’s


len_herstein: here’s a great example. I. I. I like Edde bower clothes. Uh, I’m


len_herstein: a. I’m a pretty simple guy right so


len_herstein: Eddie Bower’s pretty pretty easy for me, But you know several years ago Eddie


len_herstein: Bower trained me and everybody else in the world not to buy anything from them


len_herstein: unless it was at least fifty percent off. Right, I get emails from them


len_herstein: literally every day, ranging from thirty percent to forty percent. I don’t


len_herstein: even look at them until they get to fifty percent, knowing that there is a


len_herstein: sixty percent coming. Right, they are squarely on that ▁x. and they will, And


len_herstein: and I just, I just don’t need to buy for them. Not only do I know that those


len_herstein: sales are coming, All their competitors know they’re coming too, And when


len_herstein: they’re coming, and what rates they’re coming, and so they have become very


len_herstein: very stuck on an acts as a lot of people in retail. do


david_horsager: let’s get personal. Gilance be your whole. You know you have this whole


david_horsager: part. One of the chapters is on the


david_horsager: autonomy, fighting complacency through the power of empowerment. But maybe


david_horsager: you can speak to that, but also just how do we fight complacency at work,


david_horsager: but also in our marriage, in our relationships and our friendships. Ive been


david_horsager: married my wife for a quarter century. Now, Uh, four


david_horsager: kids to to show for it and an amazing marriage. But how do we you know fight


len_herstein: Yes, okay, so two separate questions there. I’ll take the first one first. So


len_herstein: autonomy in the workplace, we’re seeing this right now. everybody’s talking


len_herstein: about this. The great resignation, right, as


len_herstein: if it’s a covet thing. this is not a covid thing, right.


len_herstein: The great resignation is not a covid thing. This thing has been brewing


len_herstein: for a while, and covid, maybe accelerated it, or brought it to a head, but the


len_herstein: reality is that for a long time employers had a lot of power right. And what


len_herstein: do they do with that power? They abused it right. And so one of the things I


len_herstein: talk about in the book is this this need to be able to articulate the y. It’s


len_herstein: something we talk a lot of in law enforcement about. Why are we doing every


len_herstein: single thing we’re doing right? And it relates to understanding Uh, what your


len_herstein: purpose is right. What is the goal? What is the overall purpose of this


len_herstein: organization of this team of this project of whatever level you want to define


len_herstein: it, and making sure that you can articulate the y


len_herstein: when the Y is because we can, or because we said so those are not good wise.


len_herstein: Those are wise that work in the short term, but come back to haunt you in the


len_herstein: long run, And so one of the things that employers need to do is they need to


len_herstein: make sure that they have defined this purpose that everybody can get behind


len_herstein: and that everybody can understand and articulate uh what they’re doing, But


len_herstein: what they also need to do is they need to give their employees autonomy and


len_herstein: discretion right. They need to give people the ability to feel like they have


len_herstein: power over their work product Right, Because when people feel like they’re


len_herstein: being treated like a machine like a robot that can only deliver specific


len_herstein: things, that is all they are going to deliver. You know, the example


len_herstein: I use. Uh, you know is ▁zappos. Right, and you know everybody W, you know may


len_herstein: have heard the story of you know the ▁zappo’s customer service agent who took


len_herstein: a call, Uh, and and you know Tony, uh shee was was there and she didn’t know


len_herstein: who it was, but they were ordering a pizza, not ordering shoes, not ordering


len_herstein: anything that ▁zappo’s actually sold. Um, and she took the time to help them


len_herstein: find a place that would deliver a pizza at the time of night that they were


len_herstein: looking for, because she understood that she had the autonomy to do whatever


len_herstein: she needed to do to make a potential customer happy, and she had the time to


len_herstein: do it right. And she also understood the purpose of the organization and what


len_herstein: that was all about. So when you give people that autonomy that what that


len_herstein: relates to and studies will show this, and you know this is released to


len_herstein: engagement, right and the more engaged people become in their work product.


len_herstein: Not only do they become better Ees, but they also become less in complacent,


len_herstein: Because when you’re engaged you’re paying attention, right, And that’s what we


len_herstein: want people to do to not become complacent. We don’t want them to ignore. You


len_herstein: know, when we’re talking about leaders up here, we rely on the people on the


len_herstein: ground doing the work to let us know to send the signals up when something’s


len_herstein: wrong, right? I just, I’m not going to name names, but I just had an issue


len_herstein: this this week with our bank. Uh, the bank that we use for our business, and


len_herstein: without letting us know without doing anything, because they needed one piece


len_herstein: of information, they actually froze our accounts for without even letting us


len_herstein: know, And a vendor had to let us know that our account was frozen. And when


len_herstein: we, when we were research that we found out well what had happen Is you know,


len_herstein: Our banker without telling us, had left the company. Nobody had taken their


len_herstein: spot. No communication happened and and all of a sudden it got to this point


len_herstein: where they just froze our account. Now we went in and we filled out this one


len_herstein: piece of paper and everything was fine, But the reality is are the people that


len_herstein: we dealt with at the branch or whatever level? Are they going to pass that


len_herstein: word up? Are they


len_herstein: going to let people know right what’s going on? Do they feel like they have


len_herstein: that autonomy and that engagement level to be able to communicate upwards?


len_herstein: Because without that, not only do they become complacent, but the organization


david_horsager: you talk a little bit about. I like this. You talk a little bit about good


len_herstein: you talk a little about? I like, talk about good habits in the in the in. The


david_horsager: habits in the in the in the uh book. Tell us, I want to get personal here


len_herstein: uh book, Tell us I want to get personal. Here tells what are the good habits


david_horsager: and tell us what are some good habits you have whether it’s for business or


len_herstein: you have, whether it’s for business or for life. Family?


david_horsager: for health? life? Family,


len_herstein: Yeah, so I mean you know this and this. This gets into the their second


len_herstein: question, which was about. You know, you


len_herstein: know your personal relationships, too, but you know. Um, you know, I talk in a


len_herstein: book about the purpose of a habit is to remove thought from a situation where


len_herstein: thought actually works to your detriment. right. So the easiest example is


len_herstein: every day when I walk in the house, I placed my keys on a hook inside the


len_herstein: door. Right. I always know where my keys are. It is a habit that I do every


len_herstein: time. No matter what I don’t think about, whether am i coming in or am I going


len_herstein: to stay for a while. Do I need to hang up on my keys? Do I not need to hang


len_herstein: every single time I hang up my keys, Because if I don’t I get in, You know


len_herstein: this is probably not great for my relationship, But my wife doesn’t do that


len_herstein: and my wife loses herur keys. Right and you can’t find Themem and we’re We’re


len_herstein: stuck going around the house looking for them because each time is different


len_herstein: right So you got to think about what in your life can benefit from not


len_herstein: thinking about it. So another example that I use from law enforcement is when


len_herstein: I’m in uniform when I’m working a shift. I do not shake hands with people. I


len_herstein: do not offer my handers. There’s a lot of reasons for that. It’s not a. It’s


len_herstein: not a germafold thing. It’s because I don’t want to give up control of but


len_herstein: piece of my body to somebody that I don’t under Know what’s going on. I could


len_herstein: get in a bad situation. Now


len_herstein: you might say well, everybody’s not a threat. True. In fact, the vast majority


len_herstein: of people are not threats, but the downside if I make a mistake and give my


len_herstein: hand to someone who is a threat is so great that it’s better for me to have


len_herstein: the habit of never doing it all, Because that way I don’t have to think about


len_herstein: it right, ’cause what’s


len_herstein: going to happen is if I have to think about it, I’m goingnna make a choice


len_herstein: based on how’s this person dressed? What do they look like? Um, how angry do


len_herstein: they look? Have I met them before? What a situation? am I in? There’s a lot of


len_herstein: variables right and I can make a mistake during any one of those. So this is.


len_herstein: this is where we get into things like you know in business what I tell you


len_herstein: know. In in marketing, I tell people to you know, always do creative briefs


len_herstein: when you’re doing when you’re doing uh products That you want somebody to


len_herstein: deliver something for you and somebody like Well, We don’t need to do a Craer


len_herstein: brief for to this one because it’s not that big right and then you end up


len_herstein: wasting a ton of time on it. So it’s one of those things where it’s a habit


len_herstein: that you can get into that benefits you all the time. And if you don’t do it,


len_herstein: the downside is pretty big. Right,


david_horsager: pretty big.


len_herstein: if if if the mistakes happen, think about that in in your life with your kids


len_herstein: or your family, what are the things that you should be doing every day,


len_herstein: whether you think ing them. you love them. right. Um, you know, doing certain


len_herstein: things that should just be a habit that shouldn’t have to require. thought.


david_horsager: good word.


david_horsager: Well, there’s a whole lot more and a whole lot more in the book, and I like


david_horsager: actually somell of the stuff on briefs and deriefing by the way, but let’s


david_horsager: jump to one last. I just give a a quick overview of your kind of vigilance


david_horsager: Av model and I could read it, but let’s just let you say it.


len_herstein: yeah. So Av model in in the book is is accountability plus transparency equals


len_herstein: vigilance, And this is something that that you know. We’ve learned this lesson


len_herstein: less in law enforcement right, but this applies to leadership in in a


len_herstein: tremendous way, because the more that we are


len_herstein: hiding things, whether by on purpose or just by nature right, the less


len_herstein: transparent we are andles, we hold ourselves accountable. the less trustworthy


len_herstein: we are right. And what happens is if we don’t think ahead about being


len_herstein: specifically accountable and holding ourselves accountable and publicly


len_herstein: proclaiming what we’re going to do, andeically about how we’ going to be


len_herstein: transparent and provide a view behind the curtain all the way through. It is


len_herstein: very easy when we experience success when we have power to ignore that stuff.


david_horsager: Mhm, Mhm,


len_herstein: Right be can right.


david_horsager: How do you define account of, Believe you know, I go to a lot of


david_horsager: organizations. They have accountailities of value, and I’ll say well, how do


david_horsager: you help people Cowel here? and like you know, accountability stuff they


david_horsager: don’t know. So we know healthy vulnerability or transparency. Bullds trust.


david_horsager: ninety percent of leaders would be. Bor would trust a leader more. if


david_horsager: they’re more transparent about their mistakes. We have a little six that


david_horsager: process for building accountability, But I’m really curious. How do you kind of


david_horsager: define accountability and what’s healthy accountability Look like, how do


david_horsager: you create it?


len_herstein: Yeah, yeah, so for me, accountability in the context that we’re talking about


len_herstein: is account


len_herstein: with that with. when E, you know whatever group you’re working with in with,


len_herstein: whether it’s a team or an organization or to your broader constituents outside


len_herstein: it is publicly holding yourself accountable. I, I tell you know, I’ll I’ll The


len_herstein: the example I’ll use in personal life is going on a diet. Right, if you decide


len_herstein: that you’re going to go on a diet or you know some sort of weight loss routine


len_herstein: and you don’t tell anybody and you just do it yourself, It’s real easy to get


len_herstein: off the mark right when you publicly tell people. when you publicly tell uh,


len_herstein: you know your family, it becomes a little bit harder to get off, but it’s


len_herstein: still pretty easy, right. But when you public tell everybody if you go out


len_herstein: there on Facebook and say here’s what I’m going to do, Here’s my starting


len_herstein: picture in three months, I’m going to post my my ending picture Right, and


len_herstein: whatever whatever I’m going to do, Now you’re publicly accountable, Right and


len_herstein: when you’re publicly accountable, it forces you to be aware. It forces you to


len_herstein: be conscious of what you’re doing, right,


len_herstein: Um, for the right reasons, and also for the reasons that that. It’s kind of


len_herstein: you you’ve put yourself out there, and so for me accountability, especially


len_herstein: within organizations has to be effective. Has to be public. You have to be


len_herstein: drawing a line in the sand. something that people can judge you against


david_horsager: well, the book


david_horsager: is be vigilant by Len Herstein, and uh,


david_horsager: tell me this.


len_herstein: tell me what?


david_horsager: What do you? What are curious about? What do you think I know?


len_herstein: what you?


david_horsager: You’re a learner. I know you. You’re thinking about lot things, whether from


david_horsager: law enforcement or marketing and branding still have your feet in both


david_horsager: worlds. What what are you


david_horsager: curious about learning about these days?


len_herstein: Well, I mean, I’m I’m always curious about learning about how can we create


len_herstein: better relationships between. Um, you know, companies and their constituents


len_herstein: in my world. I’m I spend a lot of time because I. I’m really passionate about


len_herstein: law enforcement. Now is understanding how can we make a better relationship


len_herstein: between the community and law enforcement, And that’s why I


len_herstein: got into it, and that’s why I do this for F. I mean people think I’m nuts. I


david_horsager: Hm. Mhm,


len_herstein: go out and I patrol and I and I do all the things. Uh, but I do it for free.


len_herstein: but I do it because. Um, I got tired of being someone who is just sitting


len_herstein: there having arguments on the sidelines, and and opining away. I


len_herstein: wanted to be part of the solution and so that’s something I’m super passionate


len_herstein: about right now and I’m always learning. always learning more about how do we


len_herstein: bridge those gaps And how do we better serve


david_horsager: Well, I’m going to ask you the final question very soon, but before we get


david_horsager: there, you still run and uh brand manage camp you still, and your this


david_horsager: volunteer sheriff deputy,


david_horsager: give us the where they can find out about Len. They can find you on Lenked


david_horsager: in, but your main webite


david_horsager: Ist, and you can find all that and the show notes. Trusted Leader show dot


len_herstein: Lenherstein dot com, ▁l e, n h, e r s t, e i n dot com. You can get all


len_herstein: information about the book Um, be vigilant strategies to stop complacency and


len_herstein: improve performance and safeguard success. Available on Amazon Bars and oble


len_herstein: everywhere, Um, and then uh, you know, if you have more interest in the


len_herstein: conference, you can do also go to Brand manage Camp Dot com.


david_horsager: com Le. It has been a treat to have your aunt great to see you again. It’s


david_horsager: been a couple


len_herstein: Me too.


david_horsager: years now.


david_horsager: It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


len_herstein: Oh man, there’s uh. there’s so many. Um,


len_herstein: you know, I think


len_herstein: I mean the ones that are closest to me right now are are people that I work


len_herstein: with every day. But if I, if I want to think about someone who I have a lot of


len_herstein: trust in who who has been influential on? Uh, you know, especially me writing


len_herstein: my book and all those things I don’t know. Do you know Mitch Joel at all?


david_horsager: I know who he is, but I do not know him well,


len_herstein: Yeah, so he?


david_horsager: but I know you. Yeah, well from Canada, right.


len_herstein: Yeah, exactly Montreal, Uh,


david_horsager: Yep, totally don’t. Yeah. yup.


len_herstein: yeah, So Mitch,


len_herstein: Mitch is one of these guys where


david_horsager: he’s a good guy.


len_herstein: really good guy. And


david_horsager: Y. Yep,


len_herstein: you know is one of these people who, Um, when he says he’s going to do


len_herstein: something, he does it


len_herstein: and he does it without wanting anything in return, right


len_herstein: he is. C, is he’s what I would call a selfless leader, but he’. but he, you


len_herstein: know, he’s in a position where he’s not necessarily leading people in terms of


len_herstein: people that work for him. But I think he leads by example in an


len_herstein: industry. Um that needs it. And so, uh, you know, he’s someone that I


len_herstein: definitely have a lot of trust in Um, not only as a human being, but as a


len_herstein: leader. And and it’s someone who I aspire to be like,


david_horsager: Love it, Len. Thanks for connecting with our audience and sharing your wisdom.


david_horsager: wisdom. This has been the Trust the Leader show until next time if they


david_horsager: This has been trust the leader show until next time they trusted.

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