Ep. 88: Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV on Transformational Leadership in DEI

In this episode, we feature an exclusive clip from the 2022 Trusted Leader Summit where Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano, Founder and Board Member of ImpactLives, Inc. and Founder of Third Sphere LLC, takes the stage to discuss his model for transformational leadership in DEI.

2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Dr. Ramon’s Bio:
Dr. Pastrano is founder and board member of ImpactLives, Inc. and founder of Third Sphere LLC, a center for transformational leadership in cultural competence, social innovation, and entrepreneurship. Pastrano is fluent in human-centered design, design thinking, system thinking, service learning, social responsibility, social innovation, transformational leadership, and entrepreneurial leadership. Additionally, his innovative approach to intercultural competence and diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging have been lauded by many local and national organizations.

Serving 15 years as a surgical consultant and medical device specialist with Ethicon, Medtronic, and Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, Pastrano has received numerous awards, including the Doctor Act Award, presented by TRANS4M Council for Research and Innovation in Switzerland. This award is given in recognition for outstanding achievement in Social Innovation. Pastrano has traveled extensively for leadership engagement and humanitarian efforts throughout the United States, Canada, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. As a graduate of the U.S. Naval Supply Corps School, he also served as a Commanding Officer in the U.S. Navy Reserve.

Pastrano earned his Bachelor of Arts in Mass Communications/Media Studies from Briar Cliff University. His advanced degrees include a Master of Science in Management from the U.S. Naval Supply Corps School, a Master of Arts in Theological Studies from Bethel Seminary, and a Doctorate in Global Contextual Leadership from Bethel University.

Pastrano volunteers at Mill City Church in Minneapolis, with FINNOVATION Lab as a Fellowship mentor, and at Third Sphere LLC, where he mentors and coaches young leaders. He served on the general board for the YMCA, where he continues to volunteer, and currently serves on the Alia Innovations board of directors and on the 2Restored board of directors. Pastrano enjoys family time with his wife, Shelly, their two sons, Xavier and Kryston, and their grandson, Rowan.

Dr. Ramon’s Links:
Website: https://impactlives.org/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-ramon-pastrano-iv-d-min-mats-msm-b184525/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ImpactQuest

Key Quotes:
1. “People are no longer interested in truth. They’re more interested in finding people who think like them, act like them, behave like them.”
2. “How do you build trust in a society and in a culture that is not interested in truth?”
3. “We do not see things as they are we see them as we are.”
4. “We create what we expect. We see what we expect to see.”
5. “We need to be aware of our own biases and the assumptions that we make and take responsibility for that.”
6. “It’s not what’s in your wallet, it’s what’s in your brain.”
7. “Context really matters.”
8. “As a culture, we are a reactive culture. Therefore, we treat symptoms for the most part; we are not treating the issues at the source.”
9. “We need more compassion.”
10. “Organizations that have diverse teams are always going to outperform homogeneous teams.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

Kent Svenson:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And for this week’s episode, we feature an exclusive clip from the 2022 trusted leader summit, where Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV, founder and board member of impactLives, Inc and founder of Third Sphere LLC, took to the stage to discuss his model for transformational leadership and diversity equity, inclusion, and belonging. So sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
I always like to teach, and I always like to begin with quotes. These two particular quotes are very close to my heart. The first one is the Alchemist, which is the sculpture right at MIT. And it really let no one enter who cannot see that the issues outside that are mirror of the issues inside. So when we talk about diversity, equity and inclusion, we talk about systemic issue. And what I try to remind people that our collective thinkings habits of mind, beliefs and values are colliding and is part of the system that we are creating. The second quote is a quote for our time. And I think, you know, David pretty, you know, pretty much capture, you know, today, the polarization that we’re seeing in our culture, one of the great challenge in this world is knowing enough to think you’re right, but not knowing enough to know when you’re run. Think about that. Right. So right now, one of the biggest problem that I see as I work with different organizations is that people seem no longer interested in truth. They’re more interested in finding people that think like them act like them behave like them. How do you build trust in a society and a culture that is not interested in truth? Pretty tough, right? So how do we build trust in a society that is not, doesn’t seem to be interested in truth, but more into, you know, being validated in what they already believe.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
When I talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, for me, the conversation begins right here. So a lot of company come to me, Hey, can you gimme your program? Bad news? There’s no such a thing as a program, right? And when we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, there’s no finish line. This is a live long journey. Why there’s no finish line because culture is dynamic. It’s no linear. It’s always evolving. It’s always changing. Two years ago, we were doing something very different. Then, you know, we got hit with pandemic. We have to pivot. Then, you know, civil, Andre, we have to pivot. Now we got a war going on in Eastern Europe. Now we have to pivot.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
Culture is always moving. It’s always expanding. And we as human being, we always adapting. We are projecting all our, you know, worldviews and values and beliefs into the culture. And we are shaping the culture, but the culture is also shaping us. It’s constant movement. So when people ask me, do you have a program? I say, no, you wouldn’t ask a doctor for a prescription without an evaluation, right? So we need to understand your organizational culture. We need to evaluate your people. We need to evaluate your programming. We need to evaluate your mission, your vision. We need to understand your organization before you can engage in this conversation. So as such, we do not see things as they are. We see them as we are. The reality that you are experiencing in this moment is based in the past. If based on past experience, the brain is not wired to perceive what it doesn’t know.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
So it’s using previous information to help you understand what I’m saying to help you deal with this information that I’m sharing with you. So we do not these things as they are. We see them as we are. And as we see them as we are, we’re using one perspective for that reason, being able to take multiple perspective into account is part of this journey. When, you know, when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, and the second statement there, we create what we expect. We see what we expect to see. We can condition our brain to do that. About five years ago, my son began driving. And of course that is everybody. Every parent’s nightmare at one point or another, right, grandma and grandpa gave them gave him this huge gray van, full size van, that it was perfect for him. Not for me, but for him was perfect, was a great, you know, van.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
And that, you know, the kid is excited. You know, we give him all the rule. You only, you are the only driver and the only passenger in that, in that van and that we want you home at this time. So he goes to, you know, school, he’s been doing tracks. And one day we get a call. I’m gonna be there on time. Dad, I’m gonna be there on time. I just picking up, you know, some, a few things. And I told my wife, he’s not gonna make it on time. My wife agreed with me. We went on a walk and for the entire walk, I was just really excited because I wanted to show him my muscle. I was going to ground him. I was going to explain to him why he need to adhere to the rules. So when we walked through the driveway, we just got, you know, super, you know, charged up.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
I get home, I open the door, I turned the phone. Where are you? And he said, dad, I’m here, here. Where upstairs in my room, what happened to the van? Dad is in the driveway. So we both, my wife and I went down to the driveway and below and behold, there was the van. Why didn’t we see the van we created what we expect to see, right? So we know that we have a particular activating system, which is a membrane that connect your brain to the spine. And that regulates what you see and what you don’t see, where you have the focus of attention. That’s what you will see now, what happened when it becomes to people with human differences, with diversity of all kinds, right? There are some things that we don’t see and there’s some things that we actually see. We have to be careful again, what is it that we carry in our mind?

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
What is it where we’re putting our focus of attention, because we can live some people out. So when we talk about you know, our, our mental models and worldview and frame of reference, we all have a frame of reference. As what David shared about me at the beginning is just a little bit of what make me who I am. That is the programming of my mind being in the us Navy, working for different pharmaceutical, medical devices, company being an athlete being in different parts of the world, doing my research, all of that create my frame of references. But all of you have a frame of reference. And none of us, none of us in this room right now is understanding and processing this information the same way your brain print is as unique as your fingerprint, 7.9 billion people in the world, 7.9 billion way of seeing what we’re seeing here.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
How do we account for so much differences, right? Free, challenging. So all your experiences, whether accurate or inaccurate will impact what you value, what you believe, your attitude and that become what your well view the lenses through which you interpret, what is in front of you. And that’s how you make decisions. And the product that you will produce is based on those experiences and those well viewed mental models and processes that you have built. So if your mental models and your experiences are not accurate, what’s going to happen. You are going to produce, you know, behaviors and products that are not congruent with the person that you want to be. So we need to understand this really well. We have social media and use media, which is very highly influential in the work that we do. And, you know, on a daily basis, where are we consuming information and how that information is impacting, how we think and how we make decision, we need to be clear. We need to be aware of our own biases and the assumptions that we make and take responsibility for that.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
So the question for all of you, all of us here today is do you wanna make decisions without knowing how those decisions are informing your informing them and what impact it might be having in the people that you’re trying to lead and on yourselves? So I tell people it’s not, what is in your wallet, it’s, what’s in your brain, what’s in your brain. We need to understand what is in here and how that is impacting, how we make decisions. So, first things that we need to do to understand is that our mindsets, our mental models, our frame of references not only the limit, but also shape how we understand each other, right? So our frame of references, you know, create the structure of assumptions that we make when we connect with each other. And it’s also our mental models, you know help understand our employees.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
You know, especially when we are recruiting, hiring, retaining we need to, you know, which, which what they believe about achieving, about being connected about feeling like they are part of the organization, but they also help us also understand and impact how we perceive, how we see people and how we perceive reality, our attitude to our certain people, our behaviors, you know, how receptive or friendly we are to our certain people, our attention, which part of a person do we pay much more attention to our listening skill. Do we listen actively to certain people, but other people we don’t. And we know, and we know that male voices seems to capture more attention than women, you know, voices, how do we close that gap and micro reformation, who do we comfort, or, you know, more than others, especially right now in a moment where we are experiencing so much, you know, crisis mental health issue, burnouts.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
So when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, your best weapon is a process of attention and intentional. Self-Awareness the more aware you become of yourself, the better you are going to be at doing this work. And we also need to ask ourselves, what traps are we you know, what, what might we possibly fall into when we are doing this work? So we need to understand a lot of what happening in our context, when it comes to the United States, we have about 58 million Hispanic, Latino, according to Nielsen, we got about 44 million African-American 16 million Asian Americans. And we have about the LGBTQ plus communities between 10 to 12, you know, million people within each and every one of those groups, there is a vast range of of, of diversity. There are diversity, not only of thoughts of opinion, but also there is diversity that is not even, you know accounted for because we cannot see it.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
But then there are also generational, you know, diversity, and then let’s not forget you know, generations like millennials, you know, they expect the organization that they work with to be an organization that is focused on diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. So here’s a model that came as a result of my work in the middle east, in India, Southeast Asia and Latin America. We call ’em the four I model for transformational leadership in diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. It should be in your handout. The first I is for is for identity and identity is not just understanding who you are. It’s really understanding who you are at the deepest level. Do you know how to identify your emotions? Do you know how you wire, how you think, how you process information? You know, I’m a maximizer. I know that in the StrengthFinder I’m, I am an T J in the Meyers Bri.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
I am an integration when it comes to the intercultural, developmental inventory, all of these things, all of these, you know, psychometrics assessment, inventory date, help you understand yourself a little bit better. And by understanding myself better, I’m also able to understand the others around me. The second one is integration and integration is now that I understand myself, do I understand other people for those of you who have done emotional intelligence, not as how close this model follow the emotional intelligence model, right? Self-Awareness right. Self-Management social awareness, relationship management. It is the same. So emotional intelligence and, and system thinking cannot be divorced from cultural competency. And this model, because it’s followed the same pattern. When I talk about integration, we need to understand that context really matter. In some context, I am part of the dominant culture. In some context, I am not.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
And being part of the dominant culture, brings some power differentials. It is important to understand that as well, right? So context really matter, in which context are you relating to people in which context you are interacting, communicating, or designing for your organization context really matter. So integration is about understanding the other and the proximity to which you engage other people, intrinsic motivation. And now we go notice that the first one identity go from ego to the, you know, from the internal integration, you step outside to the ego. Now, intrinsic motivation. You come back to the ego. Why do I do the things that I do? Am I interrogating my thoughts, questioning my thoughts, my motivation for, you know, for doing what I’m doing. So constant process of critical reflection, and the last one is influence and influence is now that you can, that you understand yourself better.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
You understand the context and the people around you. Do you understand your motivation and your inspiration for doing what you do? How do you create the conditions where those around you can become the best version of themselves that is influence in case you wondering about the two picture? It’s just two images that I used to talk about. What transformational leadership and transactional leadership I heard in India, the phrase nothing grow on their Banian tree. And when you look at a Banian tree, this roof system can take, you know, a whole, you know, you know, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 acres. I mean, it can take, you know, quite a bit out of a land. And once that tree die, nothing grows on their Aban tree. On the other hand, I grew up with a banana tree. When you plant a banana tree at six months, you get another banana tree from the same root.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
At 12 months, you get another banana tree from the same root. At 18 months, you get another one, the 18 months produces the fruit and die, but you have four generations coming. So for transformational leadership, my thing is, can you create the stage or share the stage with those that need to be developing to becoming future leaders? Are you okay doing that? Are you producing life in yourself and yourself? And in other people, that’s what transformational leadership is about. And then how do we understand, how do we use this information to understand how to address problem when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Let me say this on a daily basis in corporations, in our society, we talk about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging almost all day long. It is one of the most talk about topics. Unfortunately, it is one of the least understood. We assume for the most part that we understand, you know, when you know the, in, in the same manner, what we’re talking about, what we don’t to assume that we understand what these things mean in the same way that I do can create misunderstanding in communication.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
We have a common language when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, but we do not have shared meaning. It means something different to a lot of people. And to assume that we have shared meaning can get you in a lot of trouble. So we need to understand what the things are. So the first things is, as we are dealing with structural barriers with system, you know, systemic issues, we need to understand the asset culture. We are what we call reactive culture. We are reacting to the things that are at the surface, the things that are visible, and therefore we treat symptoms for the most, for the most, you know, for the most part, we are not treating the issues at the source. When we look below the iceberg, we can see the tango web of issues that are creating what you’re seeing at the surface.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
This is true for organizations, and this is true for individuals. So when we start looking down, we can see the structural barrier, the system limitations, personal disconnect, and at the bottom, the source of which, which creates some of the problem that we’re seeing is what is us. And David just pointed out a moment ago because we don’t trust, we don’t trust. And that creates all these issues that you see here. So how do you address? So when organization come to me and ask me about doing D I B work, this is where I start, and this is the model by Robert Livingstone. How do we use the, you know, the press model to make decision? The first question is about condition and condition is about this. Do you understand the problem that you’re trying to solve? And do you understand the root cause of that problem?

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
Do you understand the problem that you’re trying to solve and the root cause of that problem? Not every organization is the same for that reason. There’s no such a thing as a magic bullet or a program. Do you understand the problem and that you understand the root cause of that problem? That will be the PR. And when it comes to concern, is do you care enough about the problem and the people that is harming? Do you care enough about the problem and the people that is harming and that’s empathy, but I will be Frank with you. I prefer compassion. And right now as we can see what’s happening in the world, we need more compassion. I think it’s one of the eight pillars that David brought up compassion will get you closer, you know, to the person, compassion in the Latin, mean to suffer with the other, to enter into the suffering of the other people.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
And I know that is countercultural. You know, people don’t like suffering, but it will help us develop more connection with other people. And when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, it’s understanding the lived experience of other people. When we said I am colorblind, I don’t see color. We all human. What you’re doing is you’re minimizing those differences that really matter to people. And by minimizing those differences, you are also denying the lived experience of the individual. So the next question is about correction and correction is, do I have a strategy to address the, you know, the problem, right? And when I talk about a strategy, I tell leaders don’t think about on a strategic plan, think about on a strategic process. When it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging, it’s about selling the ship, because guess what, you’re gonna get these storms coming back and forth, and it’s gonna be very difficult.

Dr. Ramon A. Pastrano IV:
You need to learn how to pivot. So to lack yourself into a, plan’s not gonna help you. So having an strategic process, a D E I B roadmap is the best, you know answer to that particular problem. And the last question is the most important is are you willing to do whatever it takes to do this work right? And that mean stand with courage in the gap right now that we are facing that we are, you know, experiencing not to go with the narratives or the rhetoric that we’re hearing in social media, news media, but understand that this is good for the organization. And for individuals. In fact, you will see pretty soon here, how diverse team in organizations that have diverse team are always going to outperform homogeneous teams, diverse team that are culturally competent, will outperform homogeneous teams in every single study. And they will increase more collaboration, more innovation, more sustainability, more profitability. So correction is, are you willing to do whatever it takes to do this work, right?

Kent Svenson:
That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trustedleadershow.com for all the show notes and links and information from anything mentioned in today’s episode. And we are so excited to announce that the trusted leader summit is coming back next year, November 7-9, 2023 at the JW Marriot mall of America here in Minnesota, to find out more information and to register, visit trustedleadersummit.com. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, as this is a great way to help support the show and help others to discover it. But in the meantime, that’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 87: Horst Schulze on How To Deal With A Customer Complaint

In this episode, we revisit David’s interview with Horst Schulze, Founding Member and Former President and COO of The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, Founder of The Capella Hotel Group, Expert in Residence at Arch + Tower, and author, where they discuss how to deal with a customer complaint.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Mr. Schulze’s Bio:
A legend and leader in the hotel world, Horst Schulze’s teachings and vision have reshaped the concepts of service and hospitality across industries.

Mr. Schulze’s professional life began more than 65 years ago as a server’s assistant in a German resort town. Throughout the years he worked for both Hilton Hotels and Hyatt Hotels Corporation before becoming one of the founding members of The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company in 1983. There Mr. Schulze created the operating and service standards that have become world famous.

During his tenure at The Ritz Carlton, Mr. Schulze served as President and COO responsible for the $2 billion operations worldwide. It was under his leadership that The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company became the first service-based company to be awarded the prestigious Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award — twice.

In 1991, Mr. Schulze was recognized as “corporate hotelier of the world” by HOTELS magazine. In 1995, he was awarded the Ishikawa Medal for his personal contributions to the quality movement. In 1999, Johnson & Wales University gave him an honorary Doctor of Business Administration degree in Hospitality Management.

Most recently, Mr. Schulze has been honored as a “Leader in Luxury” by Travel Agent magazine and its sister publication Luxury Travel Advisor.

After leaving The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, Mr. Schulze went on to found The Capella Hotel Group. This luxury hotel company managed some of the most elite properties worldwide, and gave Mr. Schulze the opportunity to further define the luxury hotel industry, receiving countless awards and recognitions.

Today, Mr. Schulze serves as Expert in Residence at Arch + Tower, a boutique, organizational strategy consulting firm. He recently completed his first book on Excellence Wins.

Mr. Schulze’s Links:
Website: https://horstschulze.com/
Additional Leadership Content: https://needtolead.com/
“Excellence Wins” by Horst Schulze: https://amzn.to/3tRb8l5
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheHorstSchulze
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehorstschulze/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/horstschulze/

Key Quotes:
1. “The greatest driver of eventual loyalty is the caring piece.”
2. “The product is not creating loyalty.”
3. “Loyalty is nothing but trust.”
4. “Trust is not created with a product, its created with the relationship moment.”
5. “Taking something away from the customer is not efficiency.”
6. “Hope is not a process. Hope is not a strategy.”
7. “Behavior cannot be taught after you’re 16 years old, unless there is a significant emotional event.”
8. “A team is a group of people that have a common objective.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Excellence Wins” by Horst Schulze: https://amzn.to/3tRb8l5

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

Kent Svenson:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And for this week’s episode, we thought we’d take a look back at a previous episode where David sat down with Horst Schulze, founding member, and former president and COO of the Ritz Carlton hotel company, founder of the Capella hotel group expert in residence at arch + tower and author to discuss how to deal with a customer complaint. So sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

David Horsager:
You know, you talk about three universals. Tell us about those.

Horst Schulze:
Well, the, the, the expectation of the customer, I guess that’s what we talk about. Yeah, well, yes, it’s in universe, the market, you can look at your market over there. What is a market or potential market and you, there are two or three things for sure they want, so you better have processes and systems on measurements if you deliver it. And that’s a subconscious expectation like that. What you have anybody has, you want the product to be defect free. You know, I always use an example of bottle of water. If you buy a bottle of water, you don’t want anything to swim in there. You expect subconsciously that is defect free. Number two, very important by the way, and you have to underline it 10 times is timeliness. Everything. Today is very important that your timely responses that you, you, you want that bottle of water when you want it.

Horst Schulze:
And you want an immediate answer to your email, et cetera said timeliness. So not that time minutes. So no defect timeness and number three, what you want? The one, the people that give it to you, the bottle of water or whatever it is to be nice to you to care for you. Now, here’s the, here’s the crazy thing I, and I, and why businesses don’t get that. The creative driver over venture subscriber of eventual satisfaction, eventu loyalty is the caring piece, which means you have to, you have to process and make sure that there’s excellence and relationship between your employees, between you and those that buy from you. The product is not creating loyalty. Loyalty is nothing but trust. They trust you the three times of customer, very fast as the one that distrust you, who are, who are, who are terrorists against your company. Now they go on social media, whatever destroy you. Then the loyal done, the satisfied one. They got night next door. If they, they think there’s a better deal. And then is the one that are loyal to you. Why are the loyal they’re trusting you? And trust is not creative with a product it’s created with the relationship moment.

David Horsager:
Only the relationship. You say this in the book, page 77. I highlighted it. Every relationship in life starts out with distrust.

Horst Schulze:
That’s correct it the moment when I meet you, I, I, I don’t know who you, I don’t, I, I’m not gonna trust you with anything. I mean, and, and of course it moves right away to neutral. It depends on the subconscious decision that I make about you. That, and that depends on how we say alone and, and, and how my thinking is how we look and so on. We can’t help that. Now society tells you other BS and Delta, you should be, look this ridiculous. The fact is we’re human being does how we react. We react distrust. It moves to neutral and, and in business, or in relationship, you try to move it as POS as fast as possible to trust. And that depends on your behavior and how you think that it’s that simple. No, if you don’t mind for a moment, please, that’s part of human excellence. Human excellence is, is from, from is number one. If you do your very best in your functions that you fulfill in life, number two, do your very best in relationship. And of course, number three, do your very best morally if I put those things together. But it’s the relationship piece, that piece, which creates opinion and others about you or your organization.

David Horsager:
Number three, you talk about morally, and it seems like we have some challenges in our world today. And I think it’s interesting, even in the book, you talked about the benedicting model that you went by of tr you know, treating everyone as if they were Christ welcoming them this way. Tell me about that.

Horst Schulze:
Yeah, well at Benedict and you, you understand Benedict from the monasteries in Europe and the MOS were used as shelters when you travel through the land. And he wrote to his Arab in 500 as one, the first teaching that I learned, I could find on teaching hospitality. He said, if a, if a traveler arrives, treat him as if it was Jesus himself. In fact, if you’re the, a, you should wash his feet and end in fact, if you’re the, and the, the trouble is by himself and you are on a fast break, the fast and have dinner with them. So he’s not by himself now. And if that is hospitality, how close can I come to that today? so I have to question myself that if that

David Horsager:
yeah. How does that play out in a Ritz Carlton or your work today?

Horst Schulze:
Well, my, my work today, by the way, after it’s called, I formed a group called Capella, which has sold a little bit over a year ago, which Capella would tell, and, and body was just bought the best hotel in the world. So the philosophy works everywhere, and it worked in five continents in, in Ritz car, five continents, everywhere we were, when I was running the company, we were the leader absolute. And how does it, how does it work out the same way you, you come as close as possible, make sure that you, you creating is exceptional because it is, it is in that initial contact where the customer makes a decision about you subconsciously. Now he, or she may change that decision going forward, but there’s a pretty deep decision being made in the initial conduct. So we taught, for example, no matter what you are doing, if a, if a customer comes within nine feet, three meters, you look up, you do stand up, you look him an eye and say, good afternoon, welcome or more, whatever.

Horst Schulze:
So you establish this positive in their mind immediately, which makes them feel respected and looks. They make them feel about that. You are a professional in what you’re doing in your service world. So it, it very important moments and always say, and again, and instead of saying, okay, when the guest wants something, say, I’m happy to do that. It’s my pleasure. It etcetera. So we had about 20 points, which we taught, which were non-negotiable that had to happen any customer interaction and had to happen superior to anybody else who, who is in the business. That’s we taught, we keep on teaching that, reminding them every day of it.

David Horsager:
I love that because you know, one of the pillars of trust is consistency. If you’re late all the time, I’ll trust you to be late. If you speak, you know, it’s the only way to build a reputation or brand is consistency. And I know you teach those every single day, but what about, I’ve got a complainer and I’ve got someone whining and you have a whole process for how you deal with a complaint. How do you do it?

Horst Schulze:
Yeah, well, we, we call that problem resolution. In fact, every employee was certified in problem resolution, because again, the three types of customer, remember that the, the, the, the terrorist they satisfied and the ambassador, you are ambassador customer. And I want ’em to all the ambassadors. Now, if the, if the customer has a problem, there is a potential terrorist. So in that moment, we taught our employees. If the guest has a complaint to first of all, to follow five steps, if you will, number one, listen, very careful. Listen, attentive. Number two, empathize, number three, apologize. Number four, make corrections when necessary. Number four, delight with that. We, if you have a complaint about something and to the bus point in the morning, hypothetically that the bus point afterwards said, I feel so bad about it. I buy your breakfast. Now the key element in the apology is, forgive me, not forgive them, because we know that over 96% of customers that have a concern and complain, they don’t want anything.

Horst Schulze:
They just want to get rid of their frustration. So we have to show that we take it empathize. Forgive me. I’m I’m so sorry. I make sure it will be corrected. Yes. And, but not say, well, they do it all done and them, I don’t have, I don’t. I have nothing to do with the TV in your room. I’m a bus boy. No. And, and, and why wouldn’t your, all your employees be taught that way because you don’t want customer running in the situation where, when we said, while I tell them happens all the time and you be, and you make a terrorist. Instead, if the passport says, please forgive me here. He moves our immediately being an ambassador. He’s amazed.

David Horsager:
And, and you give leeway to, for everybody it’s trained every day. By the way, every single day, these 24 principles are trained. So people hear them every day and people, and, and one, one noteworthy piece was when you, when you said you, you give everybody a, up to $2,000 to decide themselves how they can take care of somebody. And, and all of a sudden you’ve got the whole team buying metal detectors and finding a wedding wedding ring, right?

Horst Schulze:
That’s right. Well, I, I have to laugh every time this subject comes up because you have to understand David. That sounds like a story today at the time. And I said, every employee has to write up to $2,000. It was a nuclear bump, went off. the investors everybody’s declared me insane. They want to put me in asylum. I mean, you want fast boys to give $2,000 away. Everybody, the dormant, no. I want them to keep the customer. I want, I want to tell them, I want to tell each employee, I trust you with that decision.

David Horsager:
So this goes, this gets well to your your four Supreme objectives. And this changed the way I thought about business, because number one, isn’t get customers. Number one is what you talked about right there. And that is customer customers. Tell me about the four. Tell our, our audience about these four Supreme objectives. Just

Horst Schulze:
Think about if you’re on an organization, what are the four principle things that you have to work processes behind and organize and, and measure and so on. For me, absolute number one, and it cannot be on by two, three and four, absolute number one, keep the customers that they have. And that of of course, was one decision that we made. Okay. We make sure we keep them and, and particular today. You, you business people, you must understand that today, a dissatisfied customer can go out and destroy you on the internet and in social media. So number one, keep the customer and every employee should be aligned to that. That’s called alignment. Number two, what you do find new ones, of course, but much to dissatisfied ones that you have to the loyal ones that you have. Number three, what you do get as much money as you can from the customer.

Horst Schulze:
Oh, oh, oh. Without, without losing them with other words, you’re giving value. And it has to be very clear charge as much as you can. My goodness, we have some hotels now with Capella a thousand dollars a night and so on. And, and when, and we are busy than anybody else, because we are given value for it. So number one, keeping number two, new ones, number two, make sure you get money. Number four, efficiency, efficiency, you, you don’t do it blowing money. You do it efficiently. Well, not cost cutting because that’s what everybody is an expert in, particularly in my business that comes to order from, from, from corporate office, somewhere in the world, to a hotel, somewhere in the world and saying, we need a more efficiency. And what do they do? Take the flowers away from the customer. Taking something away from the customer is not efficiency. It’s cost cutting, looking at your own processes and make sure without changing the outcome, you save money. That is a efficiency that you do that by limiting your own mistakes, et cetera, et cetera.

David Horsager:
I like the, you know, these four and, and, and there’s so many people that talk about getting new customers. How do you get clients? How do you get clients? And it’s so much easier, better, and more fun to keep customers. And I, I just, I love where you start with this because it made our thinking, are, are we really taking care of those that we have well, and that, you know, changed our business and they tell others,

Horst Schulze:
They tell, well, think about, think, think you have a hardware store. I don’t care. And it should be. Everybody’s objective in that store that works for you and yourself. That as soon as somebody walks in there, you convince them by you caring that they will come back. Even if they don’t buy anything this time that you are there for them, that you respect them. And that they, you have to look at that and, and then process this. And you, you hope is not a process. Hope is not a strategy. You have to then make sure processes are created by selecting the right employee by teaching them right, by reminding them by role playing for them, everything.

David Horsager:
I like what you said also in the book about we don’t hire, we select, in fact, you want to, you select, at least you gotta have 10 people to select one, but how do you get it? Right. So many people, I was just reading a study recently that said, people get hiring executives, right? Whether they do assessments or not about 51% of the time.

Horst Schulze:
That’s correct. That’s okay. Smart. Let’s think about that. What if I can move it to 55%, I’m winning have a better team. And that was my, and I, I was really struggling on that for years and have tried all kind of things to run into an organization that helped me to assess what talent is needed in each job that I have. And then assess, be able to ask question and says, if that talent exists in the person that applies for the chart. And, and, and, and it turned out when they said don’t hire, they were 90%, right? If they say higher, they were 70%. Right. But it’s better than 50 50. So I spend the money. I want to have people that I want to have the team that I know is a better team than they have my competition had. And so we, we use this exclusively, very careful from dishwasher to vice president. Mm-Hmm everybody, but, but what’s the result. Let, give you one result the all, if there’s hotels on the restaurant, people listening, you know, that our industry has over a hundred percent turn over a year. So with other words of knowledge books right out door again, we pro our, our turn over down and rich count to under 20% while the industry stood over hundred percent. So my, the knowledge was staying inside.

David Horsager:
Absolutely.

Horst Schulze:
And of course the saving with money of that and long term, of course, in the beginning, it costs money, but long term, keep you keep more customers who save money. You have knowledge

David Horsager:
And keeping the employees. I mean, if, if you even figure, I don’t know for sure the hotel industry, but I meant in many industries, even frontline, the, the cost of turn or retention of something you want to keep is at least two and a half times hiring costs. So of course, you’re, you’re saving millions right there.

Horst Schulze:
Oh, it goes without saying, that’s the right thing.

David Horsager:
So, you know, you’re an expert in customer service and in people and relationships, but there are some difficult people out there. You talked about something in the book that I was fascinated by, because this is what I liked about the book. It wasn’t this Pollyanna, just this, or just that it was a balanced, big view. But you know, there are jerks that just wanna take something away from you and you call it the jerk factor.

Horst Schulze:
That’s right. That’s right. Well, it exists, you know? I mean, we, we, particularly in our industry, we like to say, say every guest is right. And I will tell all, everybody in our, my organization, every guest is right all the time, but I also know that’s not true. , it’s just simply, it’s not, except I, I look, everybody knows that I delegated, I mean, I delegated everybody up to $2,000, et cetera, et cetera, decision making. But I didn’t delegate that. You could say a customer is a jerk because otherwise, pretty soon, if you have a problem with a customer, you meet it, wasn’t you, it was the customer. And that’s not a decision I could delegate. So I said the only one in, in the organization on the, in the hotels, around the world, I’m the only one that can make a decision. If a customer is a jerk or not.

Horst Schulze:
And I understand that sure, we called it a jerk factor and it happened very seldom. And I, I tell the story and there, when the guest called and, and when when my manager called and said, this guest horse, if you like it, or I know we cannot draw guest out hotel, but this guest is impossible. Here’s everything that happened, including he pinched some ladies and the club lounge. I said, okay, that’s a joke. Now. Here’s what he do. You throw him out, but you do it to its garden way. You double lock his room. You have a limousine ready for him. You have a reservation ready in another hotel. And you tell him, look, we are here to make sure every guest is happy. You are obviously not happy because he was complaining every day. Now we have tried everything. We don’t know what else.

Horst Schulze:
The last thing we can try now is this. We got another hotel for you. And the beautiful li in, we have people stand by to help you packing and carrying everything down. And, and, and they will. They made sure that they have a beautiful room for you. So you are, you’re gone. and of course I knew he would find me. I that’s clear. They find you. And, and when, when I answered telephone, there was somebody screaming. I will own you and Sue you. I know that was Mr. Jones. and I say, Mr. Jones, when you Sue me, I will be in the courtroom with the ladies that you pinched, right? So you go right ahead. He didn’t Sue. He showed up again in another hotel of powers, fascinating. And the same thing happened, same thing.

David Horsager:
And you got another hotel ride, another limo ride out of it.

Horst Schulze:
another limo.

David Horsager:
well, I, here’s something interesting. You know, we talk all the time about how do you build trust in crisis? How do you build trust in the midst of change? And one really important thing, even before, you know, these social, the, you know, certain social UN risks, certain, certain pandemic, and all these things we’ve talked about. It’s how you do it. Many people complain about change. Change is gonna happen, but how we deal with people, how we deal with it matters. I watch a big company. You would know, we would all know that basically the way they laid off a thousand people ruined their trust for a decade. And I watched another CEO friend of mine here. You would also know that brand. And in the midst of the pandemic, laid off 2000 people and kept trust with them and the brand and his leadership because of the way he did it. So I think the big, big takeaways here is how we do it matters in how we keep or build trust in the midst of change. Change is gonna keep happening

Horst Schulze:
Well in, in, in difficult circumstances, what is strange to understand people, all of a sudden change their vision and their values. If you, that means they ne never really existed. I mean, the one thing that cannot change no matter what the situation is, if in, in the case of Capella, we, we said we will be the FiNet service organization in the world. In the case of Wisconsin, we said our vision was, we will be the finest brand and finest hotel company in the world. Well, just because it is a crisis, I don’t change that objective. And we said, here’s our values. We respect everybody, et cetera, et cetera, that change doesn’t change either. So if I respect everybody, all, all investors, guest, and employees, I have to do what I do with total respect, SI, total caring, or I had no values to start with

David Horsager:
You, have you, you talk about, this is interesting because it jumps to something that you call the most important speech. And your, your way of onboarding is very significant. As far as getting people bought in, in fact you said something I want to see if I have it, human beings cannot relate to orders and direction. They relate and respond enthusiastically to motives and objectives. And that kinda leads into your most important speech. Tell us about it.

Horst Schulze:
People. What, what, what you want from your employees, no matter what organization, part of what you want for them is the right behavior, the right attitude, the right behavior. But behavior cannot be taught after 16 years old, unless there is a significant emotional when in alive, in the first day of work is a significant emotion event. And what do we do? They arrive. We let them fill out some papers. And then the manager makes this pathetic speech of being a team. We are a team here. Well, wait a minute. Without giving an objective or

David Horsager:
A family.

Horst Schulze:
yeah. All family. Yeah. All we family. Yeah. And what is a team? A team is a group of people who have a common objective and help each other too, without objective, but we don’t give them their objective. After all, they’re only here to fulfill a function. That was the first mistake. We should hire them to become part of us and not just fulfill the function. So the, the, the employee come in and we done. And then after making our, our speech, we say the new way bill work with Joe over here, he knows the ropes, the rope speech. I mean, the it’s so pathetic, everything. I mean, you’re not in a role business. So instead of telling them the first day who you are showing me in what we do join me in the dreams. And here is the dream that we have. I’m giving them purpose because even, even Aris startle said people to, to do well in life, need purpose and belonging.

Horst Schulze:
So why wouldn’t I give it the first day, given the purpose, tell ’em why? Tell ’em how our desire, our purpose, our dream of becoming known as the finest will benefit. Everybody. In fact will define you in you, the individual employee and, and why not explain it all and, and explain the first day, align them to the thinking of our customer, connected to the thinking and the being of the organization. Now they’re part of something rather than just fulfilling the function. I always said, David, the chair in which you’re sitting is fulfilling a function, but we are dealing with human beings. We have to recognize that

Kent Svenson:
That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the show notes and links and information from anything mentioned in today’s episode. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast, as this is a great way to help support the show and help others to discover it. And don’t forget to subscribe, to find out when we release a new episode, but in the meantime, that’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 86: David Horsager on The 3 Questions That Drive Strategic Clarity

In this episode, we feature an exclusive clip from the 2022 Trusted Leader Summit where David takes the stage to discuss the 3 questions that drive strategic clarity.

Learn more about the 2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Bio:
David Horsager, MA, CSP, CPAE is the CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute, Trust Expert in Residence at High Point University and The Wall Street Journal best-selling author of The Trust Edge, The Daily Edge, and Trusted Leader. He is also a podcaster, creator of the Enterprise Trust Index™, and director of one of the nation’s foremost trust studies, The Trust Outlook®.

Horsager has advised leaders and delivered life-changing presentations on six continents, with audiences ranging from Delta, FedEx, and Toyota to the New York Yankees, MIT and the Department of Homeland Security.

His work has been featured in prominent media such as Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and MSNBC. Through speaking, training, consulting, and coaching, David and his team at Trust Edge Leadership Institute make it their mission to develop trusted leaders and organizations. With his trademark 8 Pillar Framework, David breaks trust down into tangible steps that can be leveraged right away to build a high-trust culture— because high-trust leaders and organizations bring out the best in their people and get measurable results.

David’s Links:
Website: https://davidhorsager.com/
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1
LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Key Quotes:
1. “The why is critical in times of change.”
2. “A final how is always something you can actually act on today or tomorrow.”
3. “A final how always has a who, a when, and a where.”
4. “Co-leadership is terrible!”
5. “If you have more than one person on a final task, you have 50% less chance of it ever getting done.”
6. “Stress goes down when clarity goes up.”
7. “We’re in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think.” -David’s Older Brother
8. “If you want to be critiqued for a living, give a talk, write a book, or lead anything.”
9. “If you lead anything you will get critiqued for a living, so do what’s right anyway.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

Kent Svenson:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And for this week’s episode, we feature an exclusive clip from the 2022 trusted leader summit, where David took to this stage to talk about the three questions that drive strategic clarity. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

David Horsager:
There are many questions we ask in strategic planning and while the why is a great question. And I agree with cynic that if you don’t have a why you might last not last 10 days on a project and the why is critical in times of change, most leaders in change, they lose trust. Not because of change. People are used to change since their diapers were, but the problem is people don’t share the why enough and change. So why is a good question?

David Horsager:
Collins and others who talk about the who? That’s a good question. Get the right who’s on the bus. No doubt about it. But often we see still buses full of really fun. Who’s singing kumbaya about their why going right up the cliff, because they’re not asking these three questions. I believe these, these are the three most overlooked underused questions in strategic work. These are the questions that actually give hope. These are the questions that actually take an idea to an action. These three questions. They are the most important questions you have to get good. ’em If you want clarity, this doesn’t by the way, come against a acquaintance colleague friend in this, in the business who just wrote a really good book called who not how that argues. You should just get the right who’s around you and the who’s will kind of solve a lot of your problems. It’s a really good inspiring book. However, there are many things you can’t leverage. Many of us leaders wanna leverage everything. Everybody else do everything. It turns out if you leverage everything in your health, you can hire a great fitness trainer and not get healthy.

David Horsager:
You can hire someone to save your marriage, but it turns out you have to do some work. So the three most important underused questions that actually drive strategic clarity, many of you know it, number one is number two is way more important. And the most important question of all is ladies and gentlemen, you must ask how, at least three times it might take seven.

David Horsager:
I’m much faster explaining it when it’s recorded and cut. So this is what they made me do. I started asking people when I knew that I needed to lose weight, I said, how do you stay fit on the road? Traveling like we do. You know what people told me, eat less exercise. That was not clear enough for me. I said, but how, how, how one idea a doctor came up to me after an event, 80 years old fit as could be. I, he said, David, here’s an idea that actually, I think has a final, how most men, if they just wouldn’t drink their calories, they could eat exactly the same. And they’d lose 30 to 50 pounds. Now, at least that was a clear how cuz I can look at something. Is there calories in that? No, I can drink it. Right? So for six months I didn’t drink a calorie, but the, the point isn’t anything about calories and it certainly isn’t healthcare advice.

David Horsager:
The point is, can I look at it because I would get on a plane and I would have a Coke. Two Cokes was a meal. I didn’t know what I was doing. Now, if you sit next to me on the plane, you’ll notice I order something without calories, but it’s gotta be that clear. You’ve gotta ask how until you’re gonna do something differently today or tomorrow. How, how, how what’s this mean for you? Don’t tell me you’re gonna call people. Don’t tell me, tell me you’re gonna set meetings and tell you, ask how until you’re gonna do something specific today or tomorrow. I do not trust you. How you gonna do that? Okay. Then how are you gonna do that? Okay. Then how are you gonna do that until you’re gonna do something today or tomorrow? And you can always ask how until you can do something today or tomorrow.

David Horsager:
Okay. So the, how is it? How plan is critical. This is a critical part of our work under the clarity pillar. Many of you know, the two sides of clarity. We have strategic clarity in how we communicate that communication clarity. So this comes under strategic it’s after MVP, mission, vision, values, priorities but is when we take something we need to ask how in most people, this is way too much work. You think it’s easy. I’ve had senior executives from a massive company that you all know say it took me. It was the fourth 90 minute meeting where we finally said, oh, I finally got the, how haha. A final, how is always something you can actually act on today or tomorrow doesn’t matter how big your company doesn’t matter how complex your government. We’ve always, you can always do it, but you have how you gonna do then?

David Horsager:
How you gonna do that? Then? How you gonna do it? It was that it was that thing with the, the weight loss thing. I was okay, I’m gonna eat less. Okay. I’m gonna bring in less calories. Okay. Until I can act on it today or tomorrow, it doesn’t matter. That final. How gives hope and you have to do something you will do. If you said to me, David, you can never, never have ice cream again. It’s not gonna happen. So you have to pick something you will do, right. Ha and tell you can do it. I can still remember. One of the biggest healthcare organizations in north America, we were at a private hospital systems. We were at a big private location meeting. I was up on a little stage like this. There was a hundred senior executives and the senior leaders here. We’d done all this trust work. And I said, it happened to be a gentleman, the CEO. I said what would you, what do you actually wanna do? We’ve talked about all this stuff. What do you and your team, what do we want to actually start to solve?

David Horsager:
And he stood up in front of everybody and said, we need a better culture. We’re dying. I said, great. How are you gonna start to have a better culture? And this Harvard graduate, C E O sat down, talked to his team and he stood up and he said, well, we like that clarity pillar. We’re gonna start with that. We’re gonna be more clear. Do I trust him? Not for a second. I honor him. I said, great. How are you gonna be more clear? He sat down. He talked to his team when he was ready, he stood up and said, we’re gonna communicate more. I said, great. How are you gonna communicate more? He sat down, talked to his team when he was ready, he stood up and said, we’re gonna hold each other accountable. After I threw up in my mouth

David Horsager:
I said, how, you know how many companies I go into? They say they have accountability as a value. And they don’t know what it means. Oh, we got accountability. I said, great. How do you hold people accountable here?

David Horsager:
I, you know,

David Horsager:
Accountability stuff. They don’t know. That day we asked how seven more times that leader got to something they could do today. Tomorrow seven, nine years later, they wrote us a letter that said this organization, you would all know. They said that was the tipping point of their organization because all hundred of those senior leaders got to a final, how they could act on today, tomorrow. And we think we got it, but it’s hard. A final. How always has a, who a when and aware. How, how, how, how, how so we do these at least every 90 days in our company, we, you can do it as an individual. You can do it as an organization, but how plans drive clarity. That gives hope because the final, how can actually happen. So when I do it individual, whether it’s me individually, or whether it’s a team, the final, how always has a who, when or aware the, who you’ve been lied to co-leadership is terrible. What does the data say? If you have more than one person on the final task, you have 50%, less chance of ever getting done. You can’t have bill and Jane

David Horsager:
All person. If you say, well, David, I know these co look at this successful company with co CEOs. We look at that. You’ll find if they’re successful and healthy, they have two different roles, even though they call themselves that, I mean, this is in life. Isn’t it having more than one person I’m not pushing. Let’s just take four or away from traditional marriage. But whatever in marriage, if you have, if you don’t have some role separation, you know how much stress that is? You mean you both, let’s say you both work. You both get home every night, you got a sparkle or what do you call it? Rock, paper scissors for okay. Who’s gonna do dishes tonight. Who’s gonna mow lawn tonight. Who’s gonna do this tonight. Every time you do that, you know how peaceful it is? Oh, I know they got the lawn.

David Horsager:
Oh, I know they got the meal. Doesn’t mean don’t help each other. But stress goes down when clarity goes up and a final, how always has a who? And by the way, it takes away stress from that person. Because if they don’t know if they totally got it or someone else doesn’t mean they don’t need help, doesn’t mean we don’t CLA we still have the connection bill, but you’ve got to drive the final. How to one, it gives them peace. They know what they own. How, how, how, how, how, how, how it might take seven might take 10, but we have to how it, until we can act on it today or tomorrow. How, how, how, so? First of all, we’ve gotta get this right? We’ve got to get good at this. If we’re gonna get the clarity pillar. So at your table, ah, think of just for now, just for, for 90 seconds, I wanted you to see how fast, if you haven’t done this, I want you to see how fast you can start to solve your biggest issue. One of your biggest issues.

David Horsager:
You ask how until you can do something, not everything, just something. Okay. So don’t get to everything, but we try to go backwards to a Keystone habit because somebody will say, well, I wanna start to read more. Well, great. You’ve had that opportunity for years. How you gonna do that? Oh, I’m just gonna read more. No, you’re not. How, how you gonna do that? Well, I suppose I should get a book. Yeah, that’s one. Okay. How you gonna get a book? Oh, I’m gonna get on Amazon. Do I trust you yet? No. How? Until you tell me at the next break, I’m gonna get on. I’m gonna punch this on my Amazon account or whatever. Right. Then you get to a final how see I’m gonna get up earlier. Good idea. You’ve been able to do that for a while. How you gonna do it?

David Horsager:
Ah, just get up. No, ah, set an alarm. Okay. You’ve done that. Okay. How you, maybe it’s all the way back to, I need to go bed earlier and then maybe I have to put something. So I start getting ready for bed earlier, but I have to go backwards so I can actually do something. How, how, how until you will do something today or tomorrow, are we clear? This is really critical. And this is a differentiator for all the people we’ve seen triple sales, lose weight, get this clarity pillar to actually take an idea to an action. So let’s do it. Take one thing right now on your journal. Put it down. What do you want to change? Try to be as specific as possible. What’s something you’d like to change. Let’s say in 90 days it can be at work. It can be at home.

David Horsager:
I’d like to gain 10 pounds. I’d like to have a better relationship with my kids. But if you do that, let’s say you want a better relationship with your, your kid. Try to think. Well, where am I right now? Just a gut check. You don’t need to do an assessment. Oh, I feel like it’s about a six out of 10. I’d like it to feel like a nine outta 10 in 90 days. Then you, how, how, how well, I’m just gonna start to try. I’m gonna, how, how and tell you tell, oh, I’m gonna write a note to them every day. For the next 90 days by breakfast, you got something.

David Horsager:
How, how, how, how, how, and this, this can change personal relationship. It can change sales. It can change your, your team, but the, how are we clear on the, how it has to be something you can act on today, tomorrow? And you have to have something you can do. So what is the thing you would like to do? Put one thing down. Maybe you thought about it today. Maybe it was, I want to increase this pillar. Well, what do I wanna do? Maybe I want to whatever it is, put something down at the top that you want personally. Okay. This is just for you. Thank you. We’re just gonna stay silent for about 90 seconds on this one. What are you gonna do? Okay. What’s the thing you wanna change. Everybody wants to change something

David Horsager:
Tomorrow. We’re gonna talk just briefly about habit change and what it really takes or some of the things it really takes most people miss, but this is part of it, getting this clear now, okay, you got that thing now. You’re gonna how it put a how? Okay. What’s that first? How, okay. I’m gonna, I mean, the simple, it’s simple, obviously on this one and I don’t judge anybody, the calorie thing, we’re all working on different things in our lives. Are we not? I’m working on other things today. And I was, then we’re all working on different things. I hope. But on that thing, I say, okay, how I gotta take in less care? How am I gonna do that? Okay. How am I gonna do that? How am I gonna, until I can do it today or tomorrow, be ready. We’re gonna share this in a moment.

David Horsager:
If you’re willing, if it’s private, no problem. You don’t have to, but try to get this to a, how you could do tomorrow morning and interesting thing at a football over here. Mike one of the university football teams that said we took them, helped them go from three and seven to seven and three in a year was a team that took this process. And every every week, every position, the pitch decision group and the team would, whatever happened last Sunday or Saturday in their case. And they would like, okay, we want this. We wanna win next week. Ha ha. I’m gonna do it. How’s my position group. Ha ha haha. Until we can actually do something today or tomorrow. Okay. Let me give you silence for a minute 60 seconds and see if you can get to a final, how that you can act on today or tomorrow.

David Horsager:
So that that’s the point is so when you do this on teams, you know it, some of you know, the full 90 day, quick plan process, which starts with three other questions, which is why you gotta have a strong enough why you don’t last on a project. So why am I actually doing this? The, the then the next question is where am I right now on this? So here’s where I am. Where do I want to be in 90 days? Okay. This is where I’m going. And then of course it goes to how, how, how, and it might, the point of this is it might take 10 hows. It might take however many, it’s not a final how until you can do it, act on it today or tomorrow. So when you do this on teams, you you’re, you’re, you’re getting to something somebody can do starting to. Then they have hope. Now sometimes, and we’re not gonna take and do this together in this session, but on teams sometimes you’ll get to things that you think someone else should do. Oh, I found a final hall for that CEO. I found a final hall for that superintendent. I found a final Hal for them. Can’t ever do it.

David Horsager:
It always has to be something you can do. So let’s take something. Let’s say you’re doing it as a team. And you came to a final, how you came to something that you really think would help the company that would help the organization, but you don’t have overall control. So how do you get buy in on an idea? I’m just gonna jump to this in my head really quick here. I hope it’s what I’m supposed to say. Gonna give you five, five words that actually create buy-in and two questions. If you can’t do it, but the CEO, the manager, the senior leader, you need them to do this things. What do people actually, what gives, what helped you get buy in one number one, empathy. I know you’re busy. I know you got a million ideas. I know you got all these people coming to you. I know you got people pulling on you. I know you got all this, but I just wonder like coming to them and putting your feet in their shoes. Because if you wanna get critiqued for a living, my, my wise older brother, economist is known for saying we’re in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think

David Horsager:
You wanna be critiqued for a living. You want that to be your role in life. Give a talk, right? Something’s wrong? Oh, he’s from Minnesota. You should have won a tie. I mean something. I mean, you get critiqued. If you speak, write a book or lead anything, you lead anything. You will get critiqued for a living. So do what’s right. Anyway, you have to, that’s your call if you wanna lead. And I talked about some of you school boards, right? Where’s okay. You, if you don’t wanna get critiqued for a living, don’t be on a school board. That’s your role in life? You have to do what’s right. Anyway. So you’re gonna get critiqued, but, but number one, start empathy. Number two is you do need to have some credibility for this. Like here’s a way forward. I may not know everything, but here’s, here’s a pathway forward. Here’s some credibility. And I want to share another thing, but, but I, if you have, you know, this is the balance of humility and credibility in, in work is it’s great to have humility, but you have to ha they have to trust that you know something about this. Another idea, another part of getting buy-in from others when you don’t have control is conviction.

David Horsager:
Some people there’s other, some people have said David, about that trust work. Why, what, when we have your show conviction, when you do your own research or write your own stuff or, or you’re in it, or you see it, I have deep, deep, deep conviction about, I don’t have deep conviction about horse soccer, David. I can’t spell my last name. I couldn’t tell eighth grade, whatever, but trust I have conviction. People will buy in. If you have conviction, that’s genuine. Next is anticipation. They buy in when they anticipate something changing. This is why on the way on certain things that you got a picture before and after of anything, oh, I could be like that. I might buy in. Oh, you mean you’re my leader. And you could lead me to this better place with a culture where people actually could perform at their best. I, I want to join in on that, cuz I’m anticipating a different culture, a non poisonous one, a different place. So I might buy in on that. So, eh, empathy, conviction, anticipation, credibility. And of course the final one is authenticity. If we’re not authentic, everybody can tell miles away. In fact, the top question senior hires were asking in one study over the last several years is, is it real? They’ve been lied to generation, right? Is that real? Is that virtual? Is it not? Is it this? Is that, what is it really real? Is that picture on Instagram real or not? Is it real?

David Horsager:
They will buy in if they feel like in a way, if you are genuine and real. So those are five, five ways to get buy in two questions.

David Horsager:
The first question is why if I go to a senior leader and your final, how and your, how plan was, we need them to think about this idea differently. I’m gonna give I, we tell, we talked to our team about having five why’s. Why is the question? But you might have five of them. Hey, I know you got a lot of priorities to consider. I know you get all that stuff, but here’s five. Why’s maybe it’s three whys, but here’s the why behind why I think this would help us. And if you have a narcissistic leader, one ear wise has to be something that would make them look really.

David Horsager:
Here’s why this would. And by the way, you people could actually maybe follow you or they’d like you or this would help you. Or you might get that promotion or you might what, right. And the other question is, if you can, with five whys, bring a how or two as possibilities that you’ve thought of your chances go up dramatically with the senior leader. Here’s an idea. I don’t know if this would work, but here’s why you use those five others I’m with empathy and all this, but then you said here’s a couple ideas I thought of for this that would really help us, I think is we could either do maybe this process for it or this, your chances go up on, on getting buy-in from senior leaders. Does that make sense?

Kent Svenson:
That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the show notes and links and information from anything mentioned in today’s episode. And we are so excited to announce that trusted leader summit is happening again. Next year, November 7th, through the ninth, 2023 at the JW Marriot mall of America here in Minnesota, if you wanna find out more information or even register head to trusted leader, summit.com for all the information, and if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. This is a great way to help support the show and help others to discover it. But in the meantime, that’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 85: University Leaders on How To Cascade A Culture Of Trust

In this episode, we feature an exclusive clip from the 2022 Trusted Leader Summit where David sat down with Dr. Brent Hales, Associate Dean, College of Agricultural Sciences and Director of Penn State Extension, and Lisa Kaslon, Professional Development Coordinator and Extension Educator at University of Nebraska – Lincoln Extension, to discuss how to cascade a culture of trust in your organization.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Dr. Brent’s Bio:
Brent Hales serves as an Associate Dean, College of Agricultural Sciences and Director of Penn State Extension. He received a bachelor’s degree in sociology from Brigham Young University, a master’s degree in sociology from Middle Tennessee State University, and a Ph.D. in rural sociology from Iowa State University. Dr. Hales previously served as the Senior Associate Dean and Chief Financial Officer of the University of Minnesota Extension, Associate Dean for the University of Minnesota Extension Center for Community Vitality and the Director of the University of Minnesota Crookston, Economic Development Authority University Center.

His primary area of research is holistic community and economic development and entrepreneurship. He is the founder the Southern Entrepreneurship Program, which teaches entrepreneurship skills to high school and community college students, and to displaced workers throughout the U.S. and across the globe. He is also a past president of the Community Development Society.

He is the father of 6 children and has been married to his best friend Candy for 27 years.

Lisa’s Bio:
As Professional Development Coordinator my role is to: 1) foster an organizational culture dedicated to regular, high-value professional growth; 2) identify, create and implement contemporary professional growth offerings; and 3) organize and coordinate professional and personal skill development programs.

Dr. Brent’s and Lisa’s Links:
Dr. Brent’s Website: https://extension.psu.edu/brent-hales
Lisa’s Website: https://epd.unl.edu/profile/lkaslon2
LinkedIn (Dr. Brent’s): https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-hales-818ba15/
LinkedIn (Lisa’s): https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-kaslon-89276420/

Key Quotes:
1. “Organizations don’t change, only people do.” – David Horsager
2. “Common language is absolutely critical.” – Dr. Brent Hales
3. “You have to have a safe environment for learning to happen.” – David Horsager
4. “You have to help the individual do their job better.” – David Horsager
5. “We can only control what we can control.” – Lisa Kaslon

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com/
Measurement Tools from Trust Edge Leadership Institute: https://www.measuremytrust.com/
“The Effective Executive” by Peter F. Drucker: https://amzn.to/3xbgFYi

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
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Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
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Show Transcript

Kent Svenson:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And for this week’s episode, we have an exclusive clip from 2022 trusted leader summit, where David sat down with Dr. Brent Hales from Penn State University Extension and Lisa Kaslon from the University of Nebraska Lincoln Extension to discuss how to cascade a culture of trust in your organization. So sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

David Horsager:
One of the things about universities and extension specifically are they are complex in a very unique way. We’re not gonna get into all of that today, but if, if they can make a dent, then others can, and of course, these are great institutions already. We’re not saying we changed everything, but some great things happen. Let’s start with you, Dr. Brent how, how did you even come to this? How did, why did you decide to what was your trust journey to start?

Dr. Brent Hales:
Well, I had the opportunity to listen to David speak at a couple of conferences. And at the time I was with the university of Minnesota extension and they’re here today, the leadership of, of university of Minnesota extension. And we decided that we wanted to make an investment in trust building. And so I took on the responsibility of becoming a certified facilitator coach. We trained others and in the organization, and then I was given the opportunity to interview for the director’s position at Penn state. And it was interesting. I had a little bit of insider knowledge per one of the leadership team members about some of the issues that were salient at Penn state and the word toxic kept coming up a toxic culture. And so I use some of the skills that I, I gained from the facilitation to create a vision for trust and trust building in my interview process. And as a result of that, I got the job, but when it came time to get hired I said to my now boss, I said, look, you’re hiring me on the basis of this presentation, which included the trust edge work. And if you don’t let me do that, I will have zero trust in the organization. So I need that commitment. And he said, do you want it in writing? And I said, yes. And so that’s how we launched into this. Mm-Hmm

David Horsager:
Amazing journey. It’s been a privilege. So Lisa, how about university of Nebraska extension?

Lisa Kaslon:
So I think we all know, we hear in our organizations, the word trust thrown around a lot. People say it every time they’re unhappy. Every time there’s an issue, right? That I don’t trust my boss. I don’t trust my supervisor. I don’t trust this organization. It was it’s evident for all of us, I bet. And it was evident for us. And I think the, the statement that you have said three times today, I believe, and I’ve heard for seven years, is that organizations don’t change. People do. And so the basis and premise for us was everyone kept saying, you guys need to change. Administrators need to change. The leadership needs to change, do something about this organization. And it became very apparent that we needed to take a step back and think about how do we really do this. Mm-Hmm . And we really do this one individual at a time.

Lisa Kaslon:
So it gave us the opportunity to take individuals in our organization, work with them through the trust edge experience, surprised them by the fact that this wasn’t a session to come and learn about how the organization was gonna change, but to make them look at themselves, see where they had pillars of character or pillars of trust they needed to work on, and then to take that individual journey so that together we can make the change. And I, I really think looking back, that’s why we started how we started, why we’re still going and we have lots more work to do.

David Horsager:
We all do. And I think so just on your, I, I can’t remember what was in this little clip for a minute, but basically, you know, there’s a lot of parts to this. You guys have measured trust multiple times, as far as the enterprise trust in index, you have you know, I’ve spoke there. We’ve had a lot of different things, but really cool thing in your certified, trusted certified partners, facilitators have trained over 500 people in pods of about 20, over the last six years in three days, many of the companies are gonna be like, no, we get a day if that, but that helped build a common language. Tell us about the impact of that real quick.

Lisa Kaslon:
Yeah. So you can, you can decide right. Half day, three days, whatever you want in our, in our situation, we need to, to invest the time with people. This isn’t an overnight fix. I’m doing a lot of research right now on transfer training. We’re gonna, he’s gonna, David’s gonna throw out a lot of things today. Nothing sticks if you don’t want it to, by

David Horsager:
The way, her PhD is on transfer, transfer training. So how do we actually, so many people, sorry to interrupt. Good. They waste millions of dollars in in leadership development and nothing happenings, right? So

Lisa Kaslon:
Yeah. How do you make it stick? And for us, we really felt to help it stick as we needed to invest some time with people and really live out the, the pillars within that three days, you know, let’s have some connection, let’s get people networking, spending time together. Let’s build their competence by putting this in front of them. Let’s provide some clarity and have a session with the Dean. For many of our staff. They don’t get to meet daily with the Dean. And so we bring the Dean to them in a session and allow them to talk about some of the trust issues they have with our leader, which was transformational mm-hmm over time, it went from very skeptical conversations about what we were doing to, gosh, I don’t have trust issues, but it’s so cool to get to know you let’s talk about your family.

Lisa Kaslon:
And you know, it, the culture changed over that time by putting the Dean, the leader in front of them. And so those three days were impactful. It, it forced people to look inside themselves, spend some time thinking about my character, my competence, my clarity, what can I improve? How can I do better? And we kind of stepped back from that with COVID because after doing all those face to face, we’re like, this cannot be done the same way virtual. And so we need to regroup and it’s time to get going back face to face, to bring along new people.

David Horsager:
What, what I think is cool, a couple things one, and I don’t know if we’ll get to all this, but that you, the way you contextualize it, ultimately that be, it became much better and better. We might come back to that. And number two, you started to hear, at least when I came back in about the fourth year, I’m significantly common language. We talk about common language. If people don’t know common, you can’t build a common language without dripping it over and over and over now you’ve had this reinforcement in some of those kind of things.

Lisa Kaslon:
It’s a joke. The word clarity is like now the joke. Yeah. Cause everybody’s like I need more clarity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We know

David Horsager:
yeah. Stop saying communication. I didn’t say it this morning, but you never have a communication issue. Never have a communication issue at the core communication happening all the time. Clear communication is trusted, unclear. Isn’t compassionate communication is trusted hateful. Isn’t high character trusted low character. So when you define that, you start to get the communication you meant. Right. So Dr. HAES, what do you think? I think to just think through this, what do you think were some of the keys to starting the cascade of trust as you’ve, as far as your perspective?

Dr. Brent Hales:
Well as you know, David, what came to Penn state at the best time possible to do the executive training with us in March of 2020 . And it was during that executive session that we found out we were shutting down. And so during,

David Horsager:
During in the middle.

Dr. Brent Hales:
And so I kept going out and getting calls from the provost and, and getting calls saying we’ve gotta shift cuz I’ve got 67 offices in every single county of Pennsylvania and all those had to be shut down and there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. And so we began to figure out kind of on the fly how we could do this while simultaneously adjusting to this new reality. And so we brought in the leadership team, we brought in some of our amazing facilitators led by Renee psy to figure out how we can actually do this. And it, that language, that common language is absolutely critical. And so we launched our first trust enterprise index at the beginning of COVID. Now you can imagine you would expect a high level of trust, but going back to that notion of toxic we had a lot of work to do.

Dr. Brent Hales:
And so we began offering the trainings virtually and very quickly pivoted. And over the course of the last two years, we’ve trained 400 people virtually. And, and we use the language, the eight pillars in every single interaction. Additionally, I keep the trust in the, the, the pillars. I keep the cards on my home computer, cuz we were initially working from home and then on my work computer just below the monitors. So in every interaction that pillar, those pillars are coming back to me, what do I need to be focusing on? How do I need to be doing this? And then as a leadership team, initially, just myself I began mapping mapping every single

David Horsager:
Initiative that surprise you here. Shocking

Dr. Brent Hales:
Every single initiative that we do back to trust.

David Horsager:
Thank you. And with permission, I’m gonna show that that picture and we haven’t run through these, but I just thought I asked you I’ll show ’em in just a second. Maybe first I should show this our perspective on how, you know, how many would like to on any let’s not take trust. Let’s say how many would like to have a better culture? Like how many need to, to kind of transform their culture in some way. Okay. So we’re kind of, so here’s my perspective and this was inspired a bit by a Harvard research back in 2016 that showed the loss the wasted money in leadership development programs. And we added to it, tweaked it and made it what we think it takes to create cultural change, which is not easy, but it can be done. And so here, I’ll just give you whip through the nine steps to culture transformation from our perspective.

David Horsager:
And then we’re gonna come back and say what was hardest and what was maybe most important to you guys. And I might even come out in the audience in touch with touch with a few people to keep us going here. But number one, it, I don’t care what you do this. If you’re chief people, chief culture officer, if you’re you care about culture and you, you have to go beyond a person this has to align with whatever it is. It has to align with your strategy and values. It won’t last number two, you have to find a champion. This is our experience. You’ll see chief culture officer United health group tomorrow in our almost decade of working with him. It, you had to have a champion like that and it has to last, you can’t, unless you wanna be one and done or flavor of the month, which you can do with great things and terrible things.

David Horsager:
But you have to have a champion that actually cares at least in the business unit. And it can be small. It doesn’t have to be big university, but you have to have one. I believe this to my core, if you don’t help the person with an actionable they can use today. When we talk about, you know, whatever we talk about, you have to take that eight pillar framework say what’s a way I can increase trust tomorrow. So when you, many of you’ve seen our deeper work. So the ODC model or the DMA model or the how ha ha model, you have to take that. And I have to be able to use it tomorrow to help me. You have to help your people use it. If it doesn’t help them have less stress, more sales, quicker results, it doesn’t matter. They need to bring research down to usability.

David Horsager:
Number four, you have to create a, if you’re in the learning and development process, there has to be a safe environment. You have to have a safe environment for learning to happen. Number five is I believe more than ever today. You have to include live interaction, even if it’s virtual live. So we did some of, you know, we had 250 virtual events from our five camera studio at the Institute up in white bear lake. But the best ones were not everybody sit down and watch a video. The best is if you’ve seen the way we do it, it’s interact right there. Even through virtual. You have to have a live component so people can respond. Number six, I believe just like Drucker as you know, the, the late great Drucker. What’s his first name? Peter, thank you. Like I said, Peter Drucker you know, what gets measured gets managed and that’s where we, we believe if you’re not measuring trust, you’re not measuring the right thing.

David Horsager:
You know, you can measure other things, but if you’re not measuring trust I, I hope with just passion and, and humility say that, but you have to measure it to close gaps. And that’s why I use the enterprise trust index or the trust industry, 60, those kind of things, whatever you wanna change. And there’s other things you can measure that are good. Number seven, you have to provide, this is just added because we saw things stop unless you provided healthy accountability. I’m not gonna teach it today. Many of the certifieds know it, but if you’d like our simple sex six did I say, did I say something six, six with an eye six step process for accountability, anybody here’s welcome to it. Email Gabe or Margaret or somebody. And you can see that six step process. Of course we can go into it, deeper with you, but we’re happy to give that to you because you have to have healthy accountability to have things keep going.

David Horsager:
Number eight, it must be reinforced consistently the cultures that have changed Lisa with a seven years. Several of you, it’s a multi-year process, even though in one of the organizations here, we saw attrition go down by two to 4 million in nine months. If you want things to keep going, it has to be a consistent process. Number nine, it has to, a lot of organizations go with training and development that only helps the organization. It doesn’t work. You have to help the individual, do their job better to get buy in and keep with it. They have to have tools they can use tomorrow morning. So of these, what what was, what was the hardest and most important,

Lisa Kaslon:
Hardest is probably that we are. So in extension we’re a large group within the university system, but there’s larger systems around us, right? So there’s an Institute of ag that we’re a part of. There’s the, the entire university of Lincoln system. There’s the, the three campus system. And so there’s a lot of other people, right? We’re a people business. We’re reaching out, working with stakeholders. So there’s, there’s our stakeholders across the state. And so we can only control what we can control. And that’s working individually with our faculty and staff. So somebody outside of us that we’re connected to though is still gonna create a trust issue. We can’t control that. We can’t manage that even right now in the midst of everything going on, we in trying to build trust with our own faculty and staff who knows what pay raises might look like this year.

Lisa Kaslon:
So does that affect their trust? Absolutely. And so I think the biggest thing for us is this ongoing idea of how to manage that with people and not now say, oh, geez, this organization has trust issues. Well, there’re always gonna be trust issues. Absolutely. There’s always going to be something. How do I step back? How do I get the clarity to understand why we might not get pay raises so that while I might not agree, I understand. And then I don’t distrust you know, the organization. So I think that for me has been always the hardest because you can do all you can. I mean, I care deeply about our faculty. I wanna help them succeed. I want them to say, we love this organization. We trust it. I don’t know if they’d all stand up and say that today after seven years, because there’s always something. But I really want them to figure out then how do they manage that? Yeah. And I would, I would say that eight pillars do that.

David Horsager:
Thank you. So let’s jump here. You can add whatever you’d like to it, but I was very encouraged when you were working through a project and this was your this is your board. Tell us what that means. What’s that about?

Dr. Brent Hales:
So as you can see on the left hand side, those are some of the initiatives. We took the data from the enterprise index. We took our initiatives and said, what are we doing that we can map back to the eight pillars? And if we can’t map it back to the eight pillars, if they’re not contributing to trust, why are we doing it? Mm-Hmm . And so initially individually, we took these initiatives and please forgive the, the acronym soup. But we looked at all of our initiatives and said, why are we doing it? Is it contributing? Is it not contributing? What pillar is it reinforcing? And this became, this exercise became the core of where we’re going and how we’re gonna do it.

David Horsager:
Love it. So I’m gonna give another slide here to keep us moving along. And when we look at it, how do we simplify all this down while most looking at most organizations, we simply fi down to IEA, most organizations, we need to shift thinking around trust. First, most of you that have hired us have to do culture work, have seen me speak at an event, seen Michelle seen Dave Cornell seen Milton. You started by just, oh wow, there’s an aha that, oh, trust is this important. And so it started with this inspire. And the second piece we often do is equip. That’s where we certify some of your folks to keep it deeper, to kind of be the ambassadors. That’s the second step. And I don’t care what you do, no trust stuff, whatever you want to do, you have to have a group of ambassadors to take it forward, to carry it in your context, you know, better your context than any of us do, even though we might be experts on trust in a way, you know, I mean, the way we do it in in Kenya might be leading a certain way with something even the pillar.

David Horsager:
So the way we do it over here, policing issues or whatever it is. So, but we wanna equip some of your people to be certified partners. And then align is where we go deeper that’s can be a significant project. It always starts with a measurement tool. And usually with the enterprise trust index, because of all the cool thing all the times, we’ve done it over all the years. One time has the index not gone up with work, not, and there was a very unique, specific situation, but we align and we align in align. We align leadership to it. It’s there’s a whole lot that goes into aligning, but it starts with an index. So that’s, that’s that,

Kent Svenson:
That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the show notes and links and information from anything mentioned in today’s episode and for interested in learning more about the measurement tools that trusted leadership Institute has to offer, be sure to check out, measure my trust.com to learn how you can cascade a culture of trust in your organization. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcasts as this is a great way to help support the show and help others to discover it. But in the meantime, that’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 84: Christine Cashen on How To Stay Inspired When You’re Tired

In this episode, David sits down with Christine Cashen, Business Humorist, Hall of Fame Speaker, and Author, to discuss how to stay inspired when you’re tired.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Christine’s Bio:
One of the world’s most sought-after business humorists and Hall of Fame Speaker, Christine Cashen delivers a fast-paced, uproarious program brimming with memorable quips and relevant content that helps audiences spark new and innovative ideas, manage conflict, reduce stress, energize employees, and create a happier more productive workplace. She is the author of, THE GOOD STUFF and IT’S YOUR BUSINESS. Christine resides in Dallas with her hottie engineer husband and two teenagers.

Christine’s Links:
Website: https://christinecashen.com/
“The Good Stuff” by Christine Cashen: https://bit.ly/3MTTmYk
“It’s Your Business” by Christine Cashen: https://bit.ly/3NEzN6u
Christine’s Phone Sleeping Bags: https://bit.ly/3GsCCVH
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/christinecashenspeaking
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinecashen/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adynamicspeaker/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/christinecashen

Key Quotes:
1. “There’s a lot of things you can’t change, but there’s a lot of things you can.”
2. “Stop focusing on the things you have no control over.”
3. “Wean from the screen.”
4. “You’ve got to set some boundaries.”
5. “Find that common ground.”
6. “Find the things that you can agree on.”
7. “So much miscommunication occurs through email and text.”
8. “Don’t hide behind the keyboard.”
9. “Do your tasks in blocks of time.”
10. “If you need help, ask for it.”
11. “Communication is the key.”
12. “Focus on the little goals.”
13. “Check in with people on a personal level.”
14. “People can feel authenticity.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Phil M Jones’ episode: https://apple.co/38UZeBZ
“The Good Stuff” by Christine Cashen: https://bit.ly/3MTTmYk
“It’s Your Business” by Christine Cashen: https://bit.ly/3NEzN6u
Christine’s Phone Sleeping Bags: https://bit.ly/3GsCCVH

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. It’s David Horsager and I have a very special guest, a friend. She is a hall of fame speaker. She’s an entrepreneur, she’s an author of a couple books and she’s an amazing lady. We’re gonna talk about some of her expertise and before we do that, Christine Cashen welcome to the show.

Christine Cashen:
Hello. Hi, David. Great to see you.

David Horsager:
Hey, tell us a little bit about maybe something we don’t know about you. I know you got two really cool kids, amazing husband living down in Texas, but what what’s something about Christine before we get into the, into the work?

Christine Cashen:
Oh wow. I, some people might not know that I grew up in a town without a stoplight in Michigan.

David Horsager:
Wow. That’s interesting. That’s close. That’s actually, I guess that’s the same as I grew up, you know, of course I grew up eight miles from there on a, you know, a 1500 acre bean farm or 1200 acre bean farm. But I guess that’s true. No stoplight in bedale Minnesota, 500 people. How many people in your, what was your hometown?

Christine Cashen:
There was, it’s called Pinkney Michigan. Okay. It’s near Ann Arbor. And it, even though it was a small town, it was a bigger community. So like our high school was pretty average sized because it was all these little towns together. In fact, the joke is the town next to us was called hell . And when I worked, I worked in radio and people would always call to see when hell froze over. It was like a big deal.

David Horsager:
oh my goodness.

Christine Cashen:
I know.

David Horsager:
Well, Christine, you’re speaking all over the world. I’ve, you know, I know your client’s list, Walmart and United and general mills and at, and C and all these other places, and we’ve gotten the incredible privilege. I’ve had the incredible privilege to be on the same stage with you at a, at some events around the world. But let’s dive in here. You, you have this expertise around really energy and positivity and working with people and building teams. And so let let’s, you know, let’s start actually, and then move from there quickly because of the, we don’t keep going back to the pandemic, but we’ve got people right now that are still overwhelmed, frozen challenged. They’re some are having to come back, live work, some are virtual, some are alone. What do, what do we do? We have some tips for people as, as we move out of this kind of collective, just time.

Christine Cashen:
Right? Right. That is a good question. And I think I have the answer. I am on a mission and I hope you and your listeners will join me as we stop global whining.

David Horsager:
Let’s do it

Christine Cashen:
Things. Aren’t gonna go back to the way they were BC before COVID we just need to embrace it and look forward. I’m tired of looking back. I am looking both on both eyes are forward and you know what? There’s a lot of things you can’t change, but there’s a lot of things you can so stop focusing on the things you have no control over. My mom called me yesterday. She said, oh my gosh, did you see the monkey PS? I’m like, oh, for the love of all, that’s holy, I can’t, I can’t control that. I’m gonna still wash my hands, do my best and live my life. Right. I can’t worry about all the things I have no control over. I can just control me. Right. So that, so I think that’s the first step is looking at ways that you can have power to change your situation.

David Horsager:
So focus on what you can control. Now someone’s on there. Someone’s listening right now. They’re critical. They’re like, well, yeah, but if I don’t complain or want the squeaky wheel gets the da da, then I need, you know, I’m, I’m not gonna get the attention I need or the thing that I need, unless I am that person. What say you?

Christine Cashen:
Yeah. You know, I thought people were gonna come out of this last two years. Kinder in gentler. No people are ready to fight. I think they’ve been under control for so long that they now wanna over exert their control over everything. But again, there’s so many things you do have power over. So I know I’ve been complaining about the pandemic. I gained a little bit of weight over this baking bread time. but it’s like, yeah, you can vent once, but what are you gonna do about it? When are you gonna make your health a priority? I have control over that. I have control over it. Stop drinking as much wine, drink, more water, all that kind of stuff. They’re just our choices that we make every single day. And so for people to complain about things, well, unless you have total control, you’re wasting your energy, put it towards something you can. If you’re miserable, where you are, find another place to be.

David Horsager:
So I think one of our challenges is people are tired and it’s very hard to move or do something different when you’re tired, because he was like, well, I wanna start this new habit. I want to change this thing. I want to get rid of these pounds, but I’m just totally worn out. Somebody could say, emotionally, physically, you have something. I think you even say, I quote you here. How, how to stay inspired when you’re tired, how do we do that with ourselves? How do I, how do I get inspired when I’m tired?

Christine Cashen:
Okay. I have the best tip. I hope everyone’s listening. When you go to bed at night, go to sleep. You gotta go to sleep. So too many people take their phones. They start the scrolling mm-hmm right. Cause that’s their way to calm down. And you know, you have a problem. If you’ve ever dropped your phone on your face. if any of you out there, if you’ve dropped a phone on your face, you have a problem. Okay? And don’t be smug cuz you lay on your side and the screen bounces back and forth. You gotta get that. You gotta get that phone out of your bedroom because too many of us spend an hour or so scrolling. Your partner is two. You wake up. The first thing you do is you grab your phone. You start looking at your emails you’re behind. Before you even get out of bed with one eye open you’re feeling those stress, the stress hormones mm-hmm . And it’s like if people would just wean from the screen the last half hour of your day, the first half an hour of your day, start with 10 minutes. Maybe no phone front, no screen, a television included at night. And in the morning, in fact, I developed these little they’re called cell phone, sleeping bags and people put, I, when we’re out to dinner, when we’re out with people, I bring bunch of sleeping bags. We put our phones to, to rest because they work really hard. They need a nap. So ,

David Horsager:
By the way, you can get those sleeping bags@christinecashin.com. You’ll put all this in the show notes. I know that. Any other tips, by the way, this is a, this is a massive problem for everybody. Any other tips or ways to build this habit in essence to wean from the screen, we know there’s places that screen, we need it. We can use it. We, we, you know, get our Delta tickets on it. We get our, you know, whatever. But how, how, what else can I actually do? It’s cuz it’s one thing to say it and then like, oh, but this time, let me just, you know, what do I do?

Christine Cashen:
It’s that? It’s so tempting, right? Yeah. So you’ve gotta set some boundaries. Like our family is like no phones at the table, period. The end, cuz at one point we’re all eating. I look and everyone’s heads down. I thought, are they saying a prayer? No, the phone is underneath the table and they’re sending texts to their friends or whatever. And it’s like, no, no, no. So that’s a rule. Yep. Whenever I go out to people for when we go out to dinner, everybody needs to put it away. In fact a friend of mine has a cell phone. She calls it a tech tower. Everybody puts their phones in a pile. Have you seen this?

David Horsager:
No. First

Christine Cashen:
Per first person to check pays the check.

David Horsager:
Oh there you go. That’s a motivator. I like it. Great. What else? You know, I’m gonna keep going with this a little bit. You can jump anywhere you want, because I think it’s very interesting for those of us that have teenagers or kids, younger, whatever, what I mean, this is I, I told I, my, my parents, my dad is gonna be 93 this year. Okay. So, and, and I’m actually proud of how they’ve kept up with technology, but not too much, you know, like they they’re, they’re in the world, they’re learning all continued learning, but I told them, you know, they were down this weekend and I, I just said, I’m a, I could, I’m a good parent without phones. Like I could have been a really good parent 40 years ago, 30 years ago, like this phone thing. And we were like the, the LA we were the last ones to give our kids phones in the class. We were the, all these things and still it’s, it’s, it’s challenging any tip for, for parents as much as we have leaders of companies and everything else on this you know, a lot of ’em have kids. What do we do?

Christine Cashen:
Yes. I there’s one rule and that’s no one brings their phone into their bedroom at night. I think it’s giving your kid a loaded gun to give them their phone at night where they can scroll post pictures, do whatever, and you need to do a check. So when I get those phones at night, we just, everybody, you know, charges in the kitchen and all, every once in a while go through and I start, I start looking, I start looking at the pic, well, that’s an invasion of your privacy. Are you kidding me? I, you have to do it. You have to look what invasion of your privacy to see if someone’s getting bullied. What kind of pictures are being sent? What they’re looking at. And for me, it wasn’t what my kids were sending. It was what they were receiving. Mm-Hmm

David Horsager:
that was I’m on the same page. We, we, they, they put our, their phones actually in our, in, in our in our room every night. So it’s the right at the door. There’s a place to plug in charging, whatever. Yep, exactly. Mm-Hmm and, and in our heart’s case, and this might, people might think too strong, but they sign a contract with us because we, now, if they break their phone and everything, they can make the money to buy it and whatever, but we own their phone. We own the phone until they’re 18. So this is our ownership. We own it. That means we can own everything about it. you know, same. So anyway, it’s, it’s part of what we’re

Christine Cashen:
Trying. Exactly, exactly the same. And I had, I bought this thing. We haven’t used it much lately. But it’s called the circle. It’s by Disney. Yeah. And everyone’s phones got connected to it. And then I could, they had a certain amount of time online. You’re shaking your head. Like, you know what? This is?

David Horsager:
Yep. We absolutely,

Christine Cashen:
The internet turns off for them when they’ve reached their time limit. Yep. And then if they wanted more time, they had to do some chores to get more time. But it, I don’t think people realize how, how much time is spent. And this was a great indicator. I put myself on it too, because you just, if you’re on the tickety talk time just goes by and you wake up. You’re like two hours later. What happened in my life? What are you doing?

David Horsager:
Yes. Yep. People don’t know that absolutely screen time measures it. We use echo in our home. We have a wall on or whatever they call it. But anyway, I think this is really interesting. You, you know, I wanna jump to something else that’s very relevant today and we’ll, you know, we’re gonna get into it here. We talk a lot about getting along. Like you talk a lot about helping people that are opposing get along. I mean, we’ve got a polar world, as you know, all of our workers around building trust. How do we, Hey, let’s jump in. How do we get Democrats and Republicans to get along? you are,

Christine Cashen:
We can solve that problem, David, if we would be king and queen of the universe,

David Horsager:
Right. How do we just, well, but okay. Let’s just take take it easier. Somebody on our team, it’s like, I don’t agree. This is a pain. How are we gonna, because we know teams get things done. We need to be able to get along in some way. Doesn’t mean we always have to agree. What can we do?

Christine Cashen:
I think it’s trying to find that common ground. And I wish that the politic politicians out there could do that. But it’s finding those things that you can agree on first maybe. And a lot of it is the language that we use. Right. I call them wise words. Hmm. So for instance, instead of saying the word, unfortunately, I like to use the word as it turns out

Christine Cashen:
Right. So someone says, oh, we need you for a speech. I’m like, oh, unfortunately I’m busy. No, no. Unfortunately I’d say Uhuh, as it turns out, I have, you know, when I’m asking my family to do things, I don’t say you haven’t, you know, you never feed the dog. I say you have yet to, if you have someone who owes your report, like I haven’t seen that report. You need to go, I have yet to see the report, leaving them open to doing it. Instead of saying, I disagree with you using the words, I see things differently. I feel like we’re not using the right words. And it’s inflaming people on the, you know, not on purpose, it’s just happening. And then if you get a, an email from someone that makes you wanna lick your fingers and, you know, tap out your response, that’s not the thing to do. You gotta pick up the phone face to face so much miscommunication occurs through email, through text. I mean, it’s just, I couldn’t make anyone’s email sound like they’re being mean by the tone of my voice. Look at what he wrote. Good warning. Happy to work with you on this. Yeah. Right?

David Horsager:
Yeah. absolutely.

Christine Cashen:
So if you get a, especially when it’s a, a sensitive or hot topic, like always, always pick up the phone, don’t, don’t hide behind to the keyboard.

David Horsager:
Love it. What about you know, you had some other tips I’ve heard and I, I think brilliant. I, by the way, I love what you just said about words, all this, these using the right words. It can, it can

Christine Cashen:
Words matter.

David Horsager:
Yes. It, it can deescalate. It can open up. It can. So it’s so motivating. You and I both know Phil Jones who was on the, on the podcast not too long ago. That’s and is, you know, think had us thinking a lot differently about words, but as far as, you know, a lot of what you’re talking about, it’s so fun to see you on the platform and you bring this fun and you bring this energy and you bring this customization and connection. And you’ve been on the stage with presence of countries, including ours and others. But what, what about this? How can we bring, you know, some, some of the things I’ve heard you talk about is less stress and more productivity. How can we be more productive? Because we turns out we still need to get things done. There’s a lot of focus and for good reason on mental health and taking this day and take that. But I run a company and I actually still need people to work. I actually still need people to get things done. So how do we motivate this kinda less stress environment, but we actually, we still need to be productive. What do we do?

Christine Cashen:
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I, I think the answer is, is in each person finding out where their strengths are, what, what, when’s your biggest productivity time? Is it in the morning? Is it the afternoon? Some people don’t get going until like 11 o’clock for other people. They’re like, oh, it’s lunch and home. They’re mentally gone because they’ve been up working, you know, first thing straight away. So know when your high productive, high energy time is and capitalize on that, you know, do the things you don’t wanna do first. A lot of times you get that out of the way you’ve been putting it off for three days. Well, finally, you did it. And it was much easier than anticipated. And then if you can do your tasks some blocks of time. So you know, I will try to power through my email. Then I turn it off and go to something else, a project that I needed to do or whatever. But the problem is we’re always distracted. Right?

David Horsager:
How do we get rid of that distractions? Yeah. How do we get rid of the, yeah.

Christine Cashen:
Turn off your notifications. Hmm. Turn off your notifications. So you can actually focus. I take everything off my desk that I’m not working on because I find myself going, Ooh, I don’t know if anyone like me has that, you know, attention span issue, where you’re like squirrel over here and you never, I start 10 things and never finish anything. So really just getting your groove on. And if you need help, please ask for it. And the thing is today, everyone’s really mad because they can’t get what they want when they want it. Well, due to whether it’s supply chain or lack of employees being honest about what’s going on, what the holdup is. Communication is the key. I think people would be a lot less angry if they knew what was going on rather than just making them wait and wonder if they’ve been ghosted.

David Horsager:
Absolutely. What about you? You’ve got, you’ve got this business. You’ve started 26, 27, 8 years ago. What? You’ve been speaking, you’ve been you, you know, you’ve come through we’ve, we’ve come through some challenging, different times and business for you. You did used to do a lot of live, live events. What have you learned? As far as pivoting? I talk about this, you know, some there there’s people that like consultants that want to know, like, be absolute, well, it’s always this, or it’s always that, you know, it’s always this way. It’s always that it’s always oh, be patient, but the early bird gets the worm. Well, what should I be this time? Or it’s it’s oh, you gotta low end to pivot. You gotta know when to pivot, but well, this one won just because they persevered in through. So should I persevere? Should I pivot? How did you manage well, in this time of knowing when to pivot, knowing when to persevere, how to, you know, what did you learn?

Christine Cashen:
I just learned, I, I am actually really good at this because I’m super flexible. You know, it’s like when I started to do virtual, everybody was buying all the equipment and all this stuff. And I was making hand drawn signs that I was holding up in front of the camera and throwing ’em over my head because I didn’t wanna mess with the technology part. I just wanted to have fun. So I just realized that I didn’t have to follow the rules that everyone else had set forth. Like you have to have this, this special thing for your screen to flip and all that stuff. I just wanted to bring who I was. And I feel like through all of this, I just realized we all have the same issues. We all struggle, you know? And the more I can be authentically myself and relatable to the audience. And I think that’s always been my secret sauce is that people see themselves in me rather than, oh, she’s so much better. She’s got it all together. You know, I’m not a hot mess. I’m a spicy disaster. , I’ve learned to embrace that.

David Horsager:
What are you learning today? What are you curious about today? You keep learning and growing. What, what do you learning these days?

Christine Cashen:
Oh, that is a really good question. I I am learning, I really wanna start doing a little micro habiting. So in other words you know, it’s like, oh, I should go work out, but you know what I’m gonna do today? I’m gonna drink more water. Like, I’m just gonna start small. I, when I get overwhelmed by get big goals, I do nothing, but it’s all the little baby steps that make me feel like I’m, I’m being productive. So I’ve been trying to focus more on the little goals and having some quiet time for my brain, because I don’t think a lot of us have, and probably your listeners are the same. We don’t leave room for any quiet.

David Horsager:
When do you have, when do you take, when does margin work for you? When do you have margin or quiet?

Christine Cashen:
When I feel like I’ll, I’ll notice my shoulders are up around my ears, especially these last couple of weeks. Yeah. Because with everything going on the month of mentalness mental health awareness, mental. I think I said it correctly the first time. Right? Cause that’s kinda what it is. Although it’s funny. I, the moment I feel like all of a sudden, I, I’m not breathing. Yesterday I stepped outside. I put my feet in the grass and I did some grounding. I’m just like deep breaths. Feel the earth under my feet, just get grounded for just five minutes, three minutes just looked around, took it all in. And when I came back in, I just felt like I had gone on vacation. I felt so much better. I know people meditate. I have trouble with that. I know I’m try. I’d like to learn more about it. Mm-Hmm I just, my brain sits there and starts worrying even faster. Did you know, did I take the sheets out of the dryer? You know, all that kind of stuff, but when I take a minute, even if it’s a quick break outside, breathe, breathe. I put my bare feet into the grass. I’m I know that sounds like very

David Horsager:
Sounds very Minnesota in January. Just go

Christine Cashen:
Out in Minnesota in January, go. Do you still could put on your boots, get outside and breathe. The cold absolutely

David Horsager:
Lost air. That’s funny. You know, when we had the I remember our, our first kiddo of the four, she would, you know, was crying, crying, crying, and we learned something. All you have to do is go outside, just open the door and go outside and they get a different perspective. They get the wind in their face. They got it. Just change. You talk about even in a six month old, right. They just, oh, okay. And sometimes we act like six month olds or need a little wisdom there probably too. So.

Christine Cashen:
Well, I have another good. I have another good tip. Well,

David Horsager:
Please give us a couple more tips. And then I’ll this is so good.

Christine Cashen:
When, when you’re feeling kind of down and out of it, I find that there is a huge gift in the lift. And what I recommend is called the 10 coin challenge. And what it is is you wake up and you put 10 coins in your pocket, make ’em the smallest coin you have. I know you have people listening all over the world. So something smaller, maybe it’s a small bead, something as a remind, 10 of them, then you look for things that are going right. Someone you can appreciate someone you can compliment. And when you do that, you get to move a coin or bead from one pocket to the other pocket. What this does is most of us put on our gotcha goggles. Who’s screwing up as a leader. Who’s not doing what they’re supposed to be doing, and yes, you need that. But this helps you also put on grateful goggles. Who can you appreciate and why can you appreciate them? And some days you really have to look hard. Mm-Hmm , but it’s there. You will lift others. You will feel lifted and you want all 10 coins to be one pocket to the other by the end of the day, and start with your family.

David Horsager:
Great idea. Start your

Christine Cashen:
Family. And this is like a physical reminder of all right. I’m dishing out the criticism. Let me also be a good supporter and person as well.

David Horsager:
Just shout out the dish out the gratitude. Yes. That’s a, that’s a huge habit. Hey, any other habits you have? You know, we, at least when I’ve seen leaders that I trust and follow I’m, I see leaders that are doing something to lead themselves. Well, what are you, you, you influence all these people on the platform, all these huge companies and everything else. What are you doing to lead yourself? Whether it’s you know, physical, mental input, emotional, your family, what other habits do you have?

Christine Cashen:
I try to be a really good connector. I think it’s really important to check in with people on a personal level, as opposed to just the professional level. So, you know, I try every week to reach out to some people that I don’t see or talk to all the time and just say, I’m thinking of you. No need to write back. I just wanna let you know I’m here. I think a lot of people are dealing with a lot of things right now. And I, I that’s most important to me that I’m a good friend and a good human being. Mm-Hmm , you know, not only for my friends, but for my community, like, I’m the one that has the neighborhood get together at the end of school, you know, I just love,

David Horsager:
And you had a beautiful get together that I had the opportunity to be at in your beautiful home. But

Christine Cashen:
I just love bringing people together. Yeah,

David Horsager:
Fantastic.

Christine Cashen:
That’s that’s one of my favorite favorite things to do is to really reach out and you know, who, who has time. We don’t have time, but a little note card, a little note in the mail, I’ll see an article I’ll forward it to someone, a class client. I, I thought you might appreciate this. And I also try to maintain my sense of humor. I just think it’s not a lot to laugh about these days, but I find those things and just, you know, you bring the joy, Bluetooth phone, you know, I’ve got a I have all these toys and things that I just love making people laugh. And I think many leaders think that if they’re not serious all the time, they’re not taken seriously. But I feel like is the person that can evoke the laughter that can lighten up themselves. Other people that is an effective leader. Cuz everyone knows we’re the same underneath. We really are.

David Horsager:
They’re real. Give us a tip. How can I let’s just say we’ve got some people that are just like, oh, but how can I bring laughter, I’m not funny. I’m not this. And I wanna be more approachable as a leader. I wanna be more understood. Like what, what could I do?

Christine Cashen:
Okay. Well I think that, you know, a lot of us get irritated by people. ,

Christine Cashen:
You know we all, we all have rules for people that people don’t always follow. So hello. So start out with this. It’s called make up a story about people’s past. Now you don’t tell them the story it’s just for you. So let’s say you’re even driving to work. You’re getting irritated because nobody knows how to drive. Normally you’d get angry when someone pulled in front of you now you just think, ah, you know that person, that’s their first time driving. They’re a permit driver. oh, they’ve got, they didn’t use their turn signal because they have a broken arm. Like I just make up stories for people this way. I’m giving them a break and sometimes they’re suit. They’re very funny. Like my daughter, one time, this guy was bobbing and weaving through traffic. And I said to my daughter at the time, very young in the backseat, I said, look at that crazy driver. She said he must have to go potty

David Horsager:
and she’s got it.

Christine Cashen:
Yeah, you never know. So I just started having fun just with people. I called the reverse wishing. Well, like I wish them, well, I don’t use the wishes for me. I wish them well, good luck getting where you’re going. You’re walking so slow. You must have had a hip replacement recently. And I just find it makes me giggle makes me lighter because when I’m stressed out and angry inside, I find that that manifests itself being critical and angry with other people. Hmm. But when I’m lighter and having more fun just by myself, it just tends to come out and people feel it.

David Horsager:
Absolutely. Anybody that’s ever been around you feels that that’s

Christine Cashen:
You know, David, you can catch mood poisoning very easily. Yeah.

David Horsager:
no doubt about it.

Christine Cashen:
Point thing is a thing. Oh yeah.

David Horsager:
Yeah. Oh with that, I’ve got a final question for you, but before I do, where can people find out more about you? We’ve got it in the show notes. We’ve got it in the and we’ll put it there, but some people might be interested in couple of your books are the good stuff by Christine Cashin and it’s your business by Christine Cash. And you can even find the cell phone sleeping bags, but where is the number one or one in two spot to go?

Christine Cashen:
Yeah, the number one and only spot Christine cashin.com. Check the notes. Yeah.

David Horsager:
Christine cashin.com. We’ve got it spelled correctly below if you don’t know Christine yet. And we’ll we’ll, we’ll look there. So it’s the trusted leader show first. I just have to say thanks for being a friend that I trust and it’s a, it’s just a treat to be together, happy on the show, but it’s a trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why?

Christine Cashen:
Hmm. I, I really look up to Brene brown. Mm-Hmm as a trusted leader and speaker, she just speaks the truth. She talks about vulnerability. I didn’t know if any of your listeners are familiar with her. Of course it should be. She’s like the next Oprah kind of. And I just, I feel like she’s not trying to put on an act. I feel like she’s the real deal and I, people can feel authenticity.

David Horsager:
Absolutely.

Christine Cashen:
And I can do that with her.

David Horsager:
And she’s one of your fellow Texans, so yes, there. Right? Isn’t that true? There’s that? Do you both? Yeah. All right. Well this has been a treat. Thank you so much. Lots of nuggets, lots of fun. And lots of good from Christine Cashen. It’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 83: Dan Dye on Why Partnerships Drive Innovation

In this episode, David sits down with Dan Dye, CEO of Ardent Mills, to discuss why partnerships drive innovation and new ways of thinking.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Dan’s Bio:
Dan Dye is the CEO of Ardent Mills, the independent joint venture of its parent companies –Cargill, Conagra Brands and CHS. Ardent Mills operates community flour mills and bakery mix facilities along with a specialty bakery in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico. It is a values-based organization committed to being a trusted partner delivering innovative and nutritious grain-based solutions with a brand promise of “Nourishing What’s Next.” Prior to the formation of Ardent Mills, Dan held various merchandising and managerial positions since joining Cargill in 1981. In 2009, Dan was named president of Horizon Milling. In this capacity Dan was responsible for the flour milling, mix and bakery operations of Horizon Milling in the U.S. and Canada, offering wheat and flour products and solutions for a wide range of ingredient applications.

Dan’s Links:
Website: https://www.ardentmills.com/
Dan’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-dye-120947159/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ardent-mills/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ardentmills/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ArdentMills/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ardentmills

Key Quotes:
1. “Listen to and learn from other leaders.”
2. “Find joy in the journey.”
3. “Be willing to be open.”
4. “We need to treat essential workers like essential workers long after the pandemic.”
5. “We have to treat our people the right way.”
6. “We all have to work together.”
7. “It’s how you treat people day in and day out.”
8. “Partnership is so important.”
9. “Partnerships can help really drive innovative and new ways of thinking.”
10. “We have to reinvent and continue to learn.”
11. “Learn as much as you can.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Infinite Game” by Simon Sinek: https://amzn.to/3PzgY6d
“The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni: https://amzn.to/3lt0Pl1
“Built To Last” by Jim Collins and Jerry I. Porras: https://amzn.to/384yzST
“Good To Great” by Jim Collins: https://amzn.to/3wIx30L

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. It’s David Horsager. I’ve got a special guest, a special friend we’re on a university board together. He is the CEO of Ardent Mills. He was with Cargill for 33 years. The biggest independently owned company privately held company. I believe in the world for sure in the us. He was, is president of horizon milling. He is president of Cargill ag horizons, us a whole lot of other things. He is an amazing gentleman, a father husband, and just a friend he serves in his community. And I’m just grateful to know you as a friend, please. Welcome Dan Dye.

Dan Dye:
Thanks David. It’s an honor to be on the show. I just so appreciate the work you’re doing around trust and all the different aspects of that. I it’s making organizations better, making leaders better, making people better. So thanks privilege to be with you today.

David Horsager:
Well, we’ll get into leadership, Dan and I there’s so much we could talk about in a short time together, but think thinking about our audience, what are a couple things people don’t know about Dan dye or they, they ought to know, or, or maybe you should just pull the curtain back and tell ’em?

Dan Dye:
Well, you know, I mean, I’ve had the, the, the honor to be part of great organizations. You mentioned Cargill. I spent 33 years there. And then eight years ago we started our at mills, which is a joint venture that Cargill has ownership in, along with ConAgra brands and CHS. So that’s kind of a unique part of, of my journey. I’ve spent the last eight years leading art at mills and we’re you know, we produce flour. So I, you know, really enjoy baked goods. I’m a, I’m a big fan of our products. We’re now expanding into some other emerging nutrition space, like quinoa and chickpeas. That’s been really fun. So from a business standpoint or career standpoint, I guess that’s a little bit about me. I think other than that, you know, I just you know, my faith, my family are really centered for me.

Dan Dye:
That’s really what, what drives and motivates. And, and I, I just enjoy my work. I love, you know, I love the opportunity to be with our team. We have great great team across art mills. And it’s just been, it’s been a lot of fun being part of a new organization, you know, a little later in your career to be able to do that. So, you know, I, I think you know, we won’t pull the curtain back too far, but those are, those are a few things, probably a little more on the professional side, but you know, personally I’m a grandpa and that’s, that’s an incredible gift as well. So I have two young grandkids and enjoy that aspect as well of life.

David Horsager:
Did I see this right? Because I’m gonna jump into the journal you wrote in a little bit here, but you run. Do you still run kind of every day? Is that a big thing?

Dan Dye:
I do. I, I don’t run every day. I’m getting a little old for that, but I am still, I still run or walk or I find for myself it’s a great way. Not only to just keep in shape and enable me to eat some of my you know, great products that we make, but I, I find it to be a great place to listen, to shows like yours or books on, you know, audible on books and, and think, and pray and just reflect on things or just get a little time. And I think even during the pandemic even more so that’s, been helpful. So, yeah, I’m a I used to play basketball quite a bit even later into, into a number of years ago, but I, I focused more running, walking, hiking, those kinds of things to get a little exercise and clear the mind.

David Horsager:
That’s good. I I love to, I love to walk. I, I I, you know, when I was losing weight a while back, that became a thing kind of this weird thing of walking with weights, that’s what the trainer had to be doing. It was actually significant. He, that trainer believes that a Nordic skiing or cross country skiing is the best possible ice. He, he coached like 53 national champion swim teams. So a lot of people think swimming is he himself said, even though he was a Southern California guy said there something great that happens when you get your hands above your heart. And so there you go. Anyway, there you go. So before we get in a little bit deeper to your leadership, you know, since we started on personal habits here, I found this to be true. At least you’ve got, what is it about 2300 employees? Is that right? Something like that, about

Dan Dye:
2,500, we’ve had a couple acquisitions, bought a couple new businesses, about 500 across us, Canada and Puerto Rico.

David Horsager:
So Cargill was massive, but 2,500 employees, that’s still significant, but I find that people like you that are leading the team well and certainly have led through a pandemic well the leading themselves. Well, so you still have this exercise piece, anything you’re doing personally, other, other just habits that think with that’s been a significant habit for me to be able to lead well,

Dan Dye:
You know, I think this reflection time you know, in, in addition to what I mentioned while running or walking, I try to spend a little just focused time of just kind of silence and prayer reflection you know, and, and for me, again, I said that faith components, that’s a, that’s a really important starting point and habit for me, I find that it helps me to, to be others focused. It helps me to, to think a little bit differently maybe about what’s, what’s upcoming in the day or, or a big challenge or an issue that I might be dealing with. I think that’s, that’s been really important. You know, the other thing I, I, I really try to do as much as I can is listen to and learn from other leaders. I, I just think there’s so, so many great leaders out there, and there’s some that aren’t so good, so you can learn from that as well.

Dan Dye:
But, but just trying to, to watch others lead, you can do that again through books and things, but I think often it’s you know, connecting in again, I found during the, I, I connected in with a few different leaders that I respected and kind of knew, but I just wanted to better learn from them during difficult times. And I think, you know, sometimes we think we’re kind of a little bit on an island, but the fact is there’s a lot of folks out there leading different kinds of organizations, not just other businesses, even leaders in education leaders, in nonprofits, leaders in numerous different fields that we can learn from each other. So I think that’s another, you know, personal habit I try to have is constantly listening and talking to and learning from others.

David Horsager:
I love that. I was just thinking we just have out a big, our trusted leader summit, as you know. And I think the gift of what we get to do is we’ve got senators using this in government. We’ve got, you know, police chiefs, you’ve got companies, you’ve got everything from, you know, a John Deere type to a, to a banking type, to a a schools to across industries and, and even pro sports teams. And it’s like that the cool thing that I get a backup and see and learn from is something that someone might have only thought of in in agriculture they could use in banking. And then this healthcare organization brings this idea. And, and so while our whole focus and expertise is around trust how people apply it, we learn so much from each other. And just, you know, of course we have a, we know, we know even, even about trust some thing we’re experts at, we know a sliver of monumental more to learn.

David Horsager:
So, but I love the idea of not just being stuck in, I we’ve seen that in hospitals, especially where they’ve got just kind of hospital consultants that come in and they bring some other perspective and it changes everything. And you see that in industries that get just, just focused. So I wanna jump to something here. I, I, I wanna, I, one thing I gotta remember that this just popped in my head of where we actually met decades ago and how that happened. I’m gonna try, I’m gonna keep that a secret. I wasn’t even thinking about it, but I’m gonna try to remember to come back to that at the end. Everybody can can listen for that little surprise at the end, before we get there, though, you, you know, we were talking through this you know, pandemic through the crisis and by the way, people that think, oh, the pandemic’s over, or if they think crisis is over, I just think they’re dead wrong.

David Horsager:
There’s so much change gonna be had. I’m not saying the pandemic isn’t coming to an end. I am saying if we CA don’t learn how to deal with crisis, there’s more ahead in the next decade. Blockchain is gonna throw our country and world for a loop. If we’re not ready for it, there are other fast changing crisis type events that are gonna happen. And we have to get good at dealing with more rapid change. And I think you wrote something, I was very impressed by it. It was almost like journaling to your people. You call that leading through crisis. You let me have a look at it. It’s basically like journal entries. It seems like every day as you were going through the pandemic, very inspiring, very valuable. Tell us where that came from and what happened. Your first entry was March 14th, 2020.

Dan Dye:
Yeah, no, I, I you know, I find that, like you said, leading through crisis is it kind of culminated here in the pandemic and, and put everybody in that situ, right. But I think you are exactly right. This is not over. I mean, just even recently, you know, we’ve had the war in Ukraine, we are facing Mo you know, a lot of change from a lot of different angles. So to think that we’ll get through the pandemic and things will calm is, you know, I think false thinking right now, I mean, there’s gonna be one crisis or another, and just the, the amount of change we face. So when we first, you know, made the decision to close our offices and everyone was gonna work remote, it was actually, it was Friday the 13th that that happened. And on Saturday morning, March 14th I was out for a run and I kept, I kept thinking in my mind, man, I’ve gotta really be thoughtful about how to lead.

Dan Dye:
This is different. You know, you don’t go take a, a course on leading through the next pandemic and figure it out, right. It was thrust upon us. In our business, we had this massive, all of a sudden demand for our products. People were baking at home. They were, you know, flour was gone off the shelves, the bread was gone. Our customers were saying, Hey, we need more flour. I mean, it was just a massive shift in a very short period of time. And I, I remember thinking, Hey, I know I have to think about how I’m gonna lead differently during this time. And I, these words kept, you know, and I’m a list guy and you’ve kind of come to see that. So know I had this list of words that started with C and it was about BA we’ve gotta be calm. We’ve gotta be consistent. We gotta make sure we have compassion for our people, cuz this is gonna be hard and all those things. So I, I had these five CS that I wrote down and, and came through.

David Horsager:
They’re almost like our eight trusts pillars, by the way. They’re

Dan Dye:
Very similar. They’re very similar. And so, so, you know, I started that on that Saturday and just said, Hey, these are things that we need to, to lead their learnings. I’m I’m thinking about personally, I just wanted to share ’em. So I shared it with my leadership team and then actually it was every week for the first 15 weeks of the pandemic. I had a new list. I challenged myself to a different letter. So I got, I got through, I probably did about I out about five since then, but the first 15 weeks it was every week because it was just, things were changing so rapidly. And so, you know, each week I was thinking about what I was learning and what I needed to do different as a leader. And I just wanted to share it, like you said, it kind of became journaling.

Dan Dye:
It was one of the ways I was managing and, and coping and again, learning from others as I had have conversations. And you know, I just remember one time one, one of the weeks, it was probably in week 12 or 13 or somewhere. I don’t know it was along the journey a little, but I just kept thinking, man, this is a tough time. And I had a few HS in my mind and, and you know, it was all of a sudden that that was right for that moment. It was hope it was help. It was healing. It, those kinds of things would, would just kind of think things I had to focus on as a leader leading through crisis. So it turned into, I think there’s been about 20 of ’em. I haven’t shut the door on it yet because we’re not done yet, I guess. But you know, I, I in fact, my most recent one was around the journey, Jays, the journey

David Horsager:
Room. I just have that in front of me, the join just juice and joy.

Dan Dye:
Yep. It was, how do we, how do we keep the juice? How do we keep the energy going? You know, how do we join together, not split apart? How do we, how do we do what’s just, and what’s right. Because as, as you pointed out earlier David, we’re in the midst of a lot of different crisis going on throughout these, these last couple years, and that will continue. And, and, and the last one of those was finding joy in this journey, as hard as it is, there’s learnings, there’s silver linings, there’s positive things happening. And we tried to really make sure in our organ, we kept people feeling, Hey, you’re doing really good work. You’re helping to feed people. You’re helping to manage through this crisis and, and making a difference in other people’s lives, find joy in that and helping each other, all those different things. So that was kind of how that came about is it was my way of, of trying to learn and trying to you know, trying to develop myself as a leader, knowing this was new ground. And, and it just kind of ended up being this, this flow of like you said, journals things I, I wrote out and you know,

David Horsager:
It needs to be a book. It needs to be a book. I love it. I think it’s, it’s powerful. But I think what you did is you, you know, when I saw the, the read through it, you taught, but you also gave vision. Like here’s where we’re headed now. Oh, we need healing with our people now, oh, we need hope we gotta come on leaders. And you’re, you’re writing it to your SLT senior leadership team the whole time, Hey, this is where we’re headed. This is what we’re about. This is what we need to be thinking about. And I, I think if people would’ve done this, I think it’s a huge takeaway for others. Is that keep mentoring your team, keep sharing vision with your team, keeping coming with different angles. The other thing that made me think of is, I don’t know how many times on this show I ask some of the greatest leaders in the world.

David Horsager:
What’s a habit that has just been, you know, important to you. And people will say what what’s, I I’ll say, what’s that personal habit that makes you a better leader. You know, what’s, you’re doing off stage that makes you better on stage. Right. And you’ll hear people, many people say, well, health, they, they are on top of their health. They go for a run or walk, like you said, they’ll, they’ll say I keep my home life, like with my, you know, family or faith or whatever. But one thing I, I, I can’t tell you how many times those people have said journaling. Yeah. And I feel like this right here is like, you’re journaling with a little bias to sharing, like you’re journaling what’s happening, but a little bit in your mind, it, it just seems to be going to, and how could this help them? How would, what it was so relevant I could see as you threaded through all these different in essence journal entries, how even, you know, there was a time when yes, we always need healing, but in that moment, oh, we really needed hope. Let’s say in that moment, we really needed this. But yeah. How did, how did the journaling process change you?

Dan Dye:
You know, I think it was a lot of reflection. It is, it is a bit of a habit. I’m not a, I’m not like a, a very conscious like journal, or just in general. I do a little bit of that. I’ve done more later in life, but what I do do, and, and a habit of mine is if I’m in a really tough situation, pre you know, pre pandemic, a, a tough personnel decision, for example, or maybe a, a key strategic decision that needs to be made in the business. My way of managing through that is I get, I get, you know, sit down with a computer or write down on and just, just process in words. And that really helps me to think through all different sides of things and so forth. So when I was doing this, it was helping me by processing, you know, my different emotions, my challenges, cuz it, it, you know, you’ll see in there, there’s, you know, one of the vs was vulnerability mm-hmm and, you know, I was feeling vulnerable at times.

Dan Dye:
And, and I remember, you know, that this was a learning process for me. And, and I found out I was, you know, I would, I would end up sending that out to, you know, my kids and, you know, other business leaders that I had been, you know, in contact with who were going through their own journeys and they’d share stuff back with me. And so it really helped me reflect on my own leadership journey so that I could be a better L you know, better leader for my team, but just a better leader overall. And I think, I think sometimes for me, I, you know, the power of words, that the importance of, of words and, and I can be a little too wordy sometimes. And, and but, but it helps me to process. It helps me to, you know, think through the different circumstances, different things people are going through and then try to try to capture that. And that’s, that’s one of the habits that I have that, that I, I think is helpful for me anyway, to come to grip with. Okay. Here’s what I’m really thinking and feeling. How do I express that? And then how can I lead better as a result of that?

David Horsager:
What, what did you see happen? Cause I, I saw you, I read about, you know, talking about a little bit, this power of vulnerability, but what did you notice the more you were vulnerable or what did you notice around some of that vulnerability, you know, being vulnerable as a CEO, a lot of it say, oh, we gotta keep like this. We gotta look like the CEO gotta, but you kind of pushed the boundary on that. What did you notice?

Dan Dye:
I, I found that during the pandemic it was really important to be very personal. And so, as you saw in there, there were several very personal, for example, I, I, I had a, my W’s, one of ’em was wisdom and it happened to be father’s day, week. And my father who recently passed away was big influence on, on me, but he was still alive at the time. And, and I shared a very personal story of my dad and his influence on me and my leadership in there. And I found in the pandemic that people wanted that vulnerability and personal touch, cuz they were feeling things and, and were having challenges at work. But they were also having challenges at home mm-hmm and, and they were dealing with their team that were having challenges and trying to figure things out, whether that was at our plants where, you know, 80% of our people worked at a plant that were, they went to work every day.

Dan Dye:
They, they didn’t never have a, a option to work remotely. Right. We had a produce flour, we had to keep food on people’s tables. So I, I found that, that, you know, being personal, being vulnerable that opened the door and I would start to hear stories from my leadership team about how they had connected with some of their teams. And they had, they had opened up a little bit about what they were going through. And, and I, I, I give a huge amount of credit to one of my leaders on our leadership team. And, and I’m not saying that this series of things helped to do that, but it was part, I think, of his processing, but he talked about, Hey, I had to take a pause and I had to get some support and utilize some counseling and some help, you know, for a, a senior leader to, to come out and be willing to say that.

Dan Dye:
And he was willing to say it in the organization so that then others would take away some of that stigma, Hey, this is, this is hard. This is an easy to go through this. And we’re all kind of going through that. So I think that was probably the most important change or thing that I saw shift was others were, were, were willing to be a little more vulnerable as well. And then it opened up more conversation, you know, our, our senior leadership team, you know, for the first month or so we were, we were having crisis meetings every single day, you know, for an hour. So we were together more, even though it was remote more than we normally would be by far. And it really brought an intimacy in a, in a sense, cuz we were also in each other’s homes, you know, we were for the most part working remotely initially. And so we were, you know, we were going through this together. So I, I think that vulnerability really can draw that personal side out, which I think is so important.

David Horsager:
I wonder if it really was like a lot of people say, well, the pandemic, we need to be personal. I wonder if we haven’t needed to be more period or if it would make a difference. Anytime I do think there is a move, certainly there’s a move in companies to be more human in many ways you know, throughout the pandemic and, and beyond. But I, I wonder if some of these things, I guess, are there any takeaways for you that you’re like pandemic or not? We kept meeting together more as a team because we noticed that help. Yeah. Or we kept what was a learning that you kept with us that doesn’t matter if we go out, you know, beyond the pandemic, but in the midst of the world we’re in any S yeah,

Dan Dye:
I think there’s, yeah, definitely. I think one of the one would be this willingness to just be open and, and like you said, this, this more personal side and keeping that going, staying closer in touch with your team even when you get beyond it, I’ll tell you the other thing, David, and I hope this does stick. I hope it’s, it’s getting a lot of attention, but I think it’s so important. And that was how we look at our, our plant workers, how we look at what we called essential workers, you know, and I’ll, I’ll never forget. One of our team members spoke. We had a, some of our, our essential workers that had been working in our plants speak to one of our leadership meetings here a year or so ago. And they, they talked about having that piece of paper that they carried in those first few weeks that that said they were allowed to be on the road, cuz they worked at a, a flower mill and they had to be their, or cuz it was an essential, critical infrastructure industry job that they had and how proud they were of that.

Dan Dye:
And even though they knew they were taking risk and it was hard and they had to wear mask and they had to do all these new things. They did it. And, and I think to your question, my hope is, and my belief is that we need to treat these essential workers like essential workers long after the pandemic. And, and we have to make sure that we recognize that people do the work right in organizations. We have to treat our people the right way. And I know at art mills we talk about real, really focusing on having a people first values based culture. And that’s really amplified in the pandemic. And I believe we’ll amplify even further going forward because we’ve seen the value and the importance of everyone in the company, right? Whether you work remote in a plant or whatever, we all have to work together. We talk a lot of together. We make art mills. And so we, we really I think have learned that we have to treat people well, no matter what right before, what does that look like? What now I’m going forward.

David Horsager:
Like gimme a specific like, this is what that people first actually looks like. What what’s that look like today?

Dan Dye:
I think it’s, I think I’ll give you a very specific example for the first time. Ever, we, we closed all of our mills on Christmas day and Thanksgiving day. This last year we normally run 24, 7, pretty much 365 and, and some mills maybe are ABI. And other than maybe a few, a few volunteers, cuz we had some, some critical things. We, we were able to do that because we said, you know, you people need a break. You here, our, our, our team members are so valued. Another thing that we did was we, you know, we did some appreciation, pay things long after it was kind of popular at the beginning of the pandemic. You know, we did one recently and, and again, it just shows that reinforcement. But I think most importantly, it’s how you treat people day in and day out and really you know, showing you care about people and how we, you know, how we treat them.

Dan Dye:
And I’ve, I’ve had people tell me, you know, this is different than any other organization I’ve worked for because of how I’m treated. I, I feel valued as a person. So you know, those are some things that we do. I, I could go on cuz I, I think we really try to, to bring our, of values to life. One of our values by the way is trust. As you know, and so we really try to bring those values to life, trust, serving simplicity and safety and make them real. And, and we put safety first. That’s another way I’d say, because we tell people your safety is more important than our profitability. It’s more important than the, you know, production match at the plant. It’s more important than anything we do. We want our people to be safe and because we wanna put people first,

David Horsager:
I love it. Let’s take a jump here because I think it’s really interesting how you have thought about in your life and certainly in this position about partnership and collaboration. I mean, you, you’ve got this, you, you think of, you know, these kind of come competitors in ways or, you know, you’ve got CHS and ConAgra and, and Cargill and I mean, that’s quite a conglomerate to put together to make this thing called ardent mill or own to have partial ownership to different you know, different significant organizations. Tell us, tell me how that came to be. And then what do you think just quickly that we can take away as far as thinking differently in the future about partnership?

Dan Dye:
Yeah, I, I think partnership is just so important. We, you know, we try to do things on our own independent, you miss opportunity to learn, to grow, to develop obviously in a competitive landscape that we all face in the business world, you have to manage around that. But I think in partnership, Arden mills is a great example of that to your point. So it really came about with, with, you know, a desire for both organizations to commit and grow even in the flower milling space, but recognizing to really drive innovation and change the, there was actually value of, of doing that together as one organization versus two different organizations. And so the partnership idea kind of came out of, Hey, this is kind of a unique way that, that we could grow, help serve our customers better, which we’re going through. A lot of consolidation recognized that the trends in our business flower to it is relatively flat.

Dan Dye:
Can we find different ways to be innovative and change and, and really partnerships I think can help really drive innovative and new ways of thinking. So, you know, we, we came with that you know, with the joint ventures where it landed and it’s really been exciting and successful. I mean, they’re very different owners and yet we have a great board. We have a great you know, business that, that works well together with all of our parent companies and has business relationship with all of them, which is kind of unique as well. You know, so CHS, we buy a large amount of wheat from them. Conagra’s a very important flower customer, you know, Cargill, we have a lot of customers we go to market together with. So there’s just a lot of different ways we work together. And I think that shows the power and the strength of partnership

David Horsager:
Really strong and very unique. How did you deal with, you know, a lot of the organizations we work with, they’re going through an acquisition or a merger and they’re trying to put two cultures together and they’re trying to keep trust or build trust. We’re one of the biggest pharmaceuticals in the, a world we’re working with right now. And you get a global pharmaceutical and you’re putting two almost the same size together, significant challenges and opportunities with the merger, especially of culture. What, what do you do to create one strong culture with all the different voices in the heads of your board and partners? What, what have you done? Because it seems like a pretty strong culture.

Dan Dye:
Yeah. I mean, we, we were fortunate that we were, we had actually a little extra time to do integration work because the part time from the department of justice approval process, which, which was painful, but the positive part of it was it gave us a little more time to think about integration. And one of the things we did right from the start, we established our values. We established a vision, a mission for art mills. That would be unique. We didn’t use words from the parent companies. We used our own words. Another thing we did was we established Denver as our corporate headquarters that gave us a sense of everyone kind of moved, you know, that was gonna be in the, in the corporate headquarters, had to move there and come there, come together and be a part of that, obviously a lot more remote today.

Dan Dye:
But at that time, a lot of people moved to Denver that helped give us a cultural identity as an organization of where we were together. And, and it brought us, you know, in this excitement of new and, and so forth. But I think those values really set the set, the tone. And one thing you’ll appreciate this story. One of our values, the first value we established was trust. And one of the things that was a bit of a mantra that we had in that integration planning, because we were direct competitors, you know, going into this. And so we had to, like you said, bring different constituencies, different mindsets, different cultures together to create this new culture. And our, our mantra became trust on day one. And we said, we know that on, you know, May 28th, 2014, we’re competitors and May 29th, 2014, we’re supposed to be one happy family.

Dan Dye:
We know the only way that we can do that is to have trust. And we have to assume positive intent. We have to have trust across the organization and, and really driving that value at the very beginning, I think really helped us create culture that that would be our culture and have that trust for this new organization. And I think that’s that those values have served us so well. And, and I talked, like I said earlier, people first values based culture. And so establishing our values and then driving those deep in the organization, we’ve done some other things we’ve brought in some leadership principles that bring the values to be more behavior based. We, we now have what we call our promise, which is really again, makes it more personal and intimate around our values, but those things have really helped to shape that culture to have a brand new company with our own identity. In fact, we’re just now launching some new work around our branding around being art and art. The word itself is about passion and energy and excitement. And so building on that brand as a new organization and now building on it even further eight years later,

David Horsager:
I love it. What are you curious about these days? What are you learning now? What’s new,

Dan Dye:
You know, I think there’s so much change. Like we talked about earlier. I think for me it’s trying to stay out of the immediacy of the pressures of today and really start to think about some of those, those future, you know, realities that, that are gonna be, you know, with us a little bit further down the road. So I think having you know, really thinking about how organizations are changing I think one of the things that’s new that I think will not be a, a very simple and easy one that I’m trying to learn about now is this whole different way of working. You know, if you think about remote work for us, you know, like I said, about 80% of our people work in a plant, but 20% work in an office setting or whatever. And we’ve gone with a, a, a really, a pretty much a hybrid approach where we’ve got a lot more flexibility and I’ve read a lot and, and studied a lot and thought a lot about what’s the impact of this on culture, you know, and there’s some people that say, Hey, if you’re not all physically together, your culture’s gonna be diminished.

Dan Dye:
It’s gonna be hurt, destroyed. And I’ve said, how do we actually strengthen our culture through the us new way of working? How do we let people know? We care so much for them that we’re gonna let them have some flexibility in their personal lives and work maybe from somewhere else or whatever, but, but we’re, we’re all gonna be in this together working towards the same goals and outcomes, but doing it in different ways. And so trying to learn about some of this I think is really fascinating. And, and it’s, it’s so different from when the pandemic hit, when we were forced to work remote boom overnight. And so we had to adjust now, it’s been this slow, you know, painful process of trying to figure out what you’re gonna look like in the future, and it’s gonna be very different. So I’ve been trying to learn all I can about that and really understand, but, but actually my commitment is we’re gonna strengthen our culture through this, even though we’re hybrid and we’re not all together in the same ways we actually can add to our culture in different ways.

David Horsager:
I’m excited to come back and hear what you’ve tried. That’s worked because this is a big question for the leaders I’m talking to. It’s like, how do you keep trust or build it remotely? We got, we have this balance between you know, accountability that we feel like we’ve lost in certain ways with caring for employees and employees feeling cared about in the midst of being gone enough, connectedness enough accountability. You know, in, in some cases, results only hasn’t worked as well as people thought. And yet it gave some you know, gave some legs to being able trust people remotely. And, and, you know, it’s a big mix. So

Dan Dye:
It is, and it’s not an easy one. Like you said, I, I, I wish I, you know, there’s a formula, right. But there isn’t and each organization’s gonna be different, but I think we have to be together some, right. Yeah. I mean, there’s, there’s so much value in those personal connections. It’s find those right balances and ways to do it, you know, differently. And, and so far, I mean, before the pandemic, we had a number of people that work remote. We had people that traveled a lot, you found ways to, to connect, we have to just reinvent and, and continue to learn. And we’re, we know we’ll have to change and adjust as we go.

David Horsager:
Yeah. I love that. About the way you do it. Do you have a favorite book or resource? How do you, how do you stay fresh as a leader? How do you stay relevant

Dan Dye:
Rather than learning from, I know Canada, the best source and resource for me is the Bible. I find great principles there, and I, but I love business books. I love you know, new ways of, of thinking. I listen to a lot of, of books. You know, I like, I like, you know, your work. I like you know, if you think about you know, people, you know, Simon Sinek and others, and, and talk about the infinite game or, or, you know, some of Patrick Lyon’s work and different ones that do different things about thinking about business in a, in a little bit different way than just the nuts and the, the bolts of it. Right. And so I’m, I, I really like to read about culture and organizations that are successful at leaders that are successful and, and just, just better understand all I can.

Dan Dye:
So I, I, I don’t, I, I, you know, I, I really enjoyed Jim Collins work. You know, I actually had a chance to meet him here recently in at a conference I was at that he spoke at and I, you know, I, I really liked, you know, bill to last originally and then good to great and his other work. And those have been ones that I think earlier in my, my leadership journey were very impactful and very helpful. And I still draw on some of that today. And and, and he continues to refresh in some of his work. So those are a few examples of things that I try to stay, stay abreast of. And there’s so much out there. It’s just trying to, trying to learn as much as you can

David Horsager:
Cur it, cur it down to what what’s the bite size piece for today. Well,

David Horsager:
Yes, everybody can find out more about ardent mills, great organization, ardent mills.com. We’ll put it in a show notes, trusted leader showed.com. We’ll link you up just so you can see what he’s up to and his public linked in there. You’ll find more about Dan dye, if you want to. And, and we’re so grateful that you could be on share, inspire. There’s so much more to you and so much more to all that you’ve done and are doing. And I’m just grateful for that and grateful that we get us served together. I get to see you once in a while being on the board together and you know, a host of other things. So we always finish with this question, Dan, it’s the show trusted leader show, who is a leader you trust and why,

Dan Dye:
You know I’m, I’m really blessed to have been around a lot of, of great leaders. But one leader that I, I just will call out just because that, that level of trust is a guy Greg page. He’s a former CEO of Cargill. He’s a he, he just was a great leader that I trusted. It was a, at different times in my career that I could look look to him, him. He was, he was the CEO at the time we created art mills. So, you know, that, that trust I had to have in him as, as we made that change. And he’s been a great influence. And, and I would also say, and I don’t know if it’s fair to have too. But I, you know, my dad was just such, such a great, trusted person that I, he wasn’t in the business world. And yet I learned so much about trusting other people about leadership about caring for, and loving other people and how important that is and everything that we do. And so, you know, if I had to only have one, it’d be my dad, but Greg would be one from the business world that was just a, a great leader. Someone I, I, I trust and has helped me to learn to be a better leader,

David Horsager:
Two great examples, you know as you know, my dad has been a huge, huge role in my life. And you hear about leaders today, great leaders. They, they, their dad is often either was really great or really not great. And they learned something in either case I’m grateful to have one. As I say, it wasn’t my fault that I had a great dad, but grateful for that. You know, we usually end on that, but I did just remember wh where I should have really started. And that is way back when I was in college. I came out to interview at Carll. I didn’t know what I was doing. Clearly. I kind of got thrown. They said, oh, you can come out and do this. I didn’t know what the job was for hardly. I was not prepared well. But I did that, that did get invited into your office to shake hands and say, hello, you were already a vice president.

David Horsager:
And that was the first time I believe we met. And that was at Cargill. And, you know, my brother, my older brother worked at Cargill. And he’s a 11 years my senior, but I, I think the first time I met you were kind enough to, you know, take me out of the interview for a second and, and say, hi, and connect. And I think that was my first kinda real interview, which I didn’t really actually brought prepared enough or know I was doing, but it was a treat and you were very kind. And that was back at Cargill days.

Dan Dye:
Yeah, that’s, that’s good. Good, good memories. And I, I remember your brother Kent working, working with him for a number of years, and then when he was at the Minneapolis great exchange. So that, that connection with your family goes back a long, long way. So you, you have a good memory to, to, to remember that specific moment, which is great.

David Horsager:
He was my first internship Kent was, and, and you think you talk about another great leader and I don’t, you know, shout out to him too much. There’s some you know, he’s I’ve got five siblings and I’m the youngest, but he is a great leader and was a great leader. And I really, I learned a ton. My first internship my sophomore year of college was on the floor of the Minneapolis commodity exchange. Cool. yeah. And so learned a whole lot. There’s a whole more here. Dan dye, president of Arden mill, AR mills, and just grateful for your work and all that you do. Thanks for being on the show. That has been the trusted leader show until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 82: Lyssa Haynes on The KEY Attribute Of A Great Sales Leader

In this special episode recorded at High Point University, David sits down with Lyssa Haynes, Assistant Professor of the Practice of Marketing and Sales at High Point University, to discuss the KEY attribute of a great sales leader.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Lyssa’s Bio:
Lyssa Haynes, Assistant Professor of Marketing, joined the Earl N. Phillips School of Business after a long Fortune 500 career in sales, professional education, and marketing. Ms. Haynes started as a Xerox sales representative moving into a seventeen-year career at Johnson and Johnson. At J&J, Lyssa began as a medical device account manager. After reaching the $2 million Sales Club, she was promoted into sales training, professional education, then marketing working with many sales teams across the region. From there, Lyssa became an Allergan Medical consultant for a national development team working with many surgeons to help them to build successful medical practices. In 2013 Lyssa was part of the leadership team as the Director of Business Development for a behavioral health hospital in Winston Salem. In this role, she created and executed marketing plans, managed their website and social media, and led the referral marketing team to achieve objectives over many years. She has served in local community organizations to bring more awareness and support for notable causes.

Ms. Haynes attributes her success to being adaptable, relevant, approachable, hard-working, and enthusiastic to help others face difficult challenges. She believes in supporting her students and her peers to attain the best education to change lives, foster new leaders, and leave a positive, enduring impression.

At High Point University, Ms. Haynes teaches undergraduate classes in Principles of Marketing and Sales in a Dynamic Environment. A native of North Carolina, she earned her BS in Business Administration with a marketing concentration from UNC-Chapel Hill, and her MBA from UNC-Greensboro. She also holds a long-standing certification with the American Council of Exercise teaching fitness classes for over 20 years.

Lyssa is the proud mother of twins. Her daughter recently graduated from UNC-Chapel Hill and is pursuing a graduate degree. Lyssa is also an HPU mom. Her son is a student at HPU in computer engineering.

She is very excited to be joining a part of her legacy since HPU is where her parents met and were married for 65 years.

Lyssa’s Links:
Website: https://www.highpoint.edu/faculty-staff/marketing/alyssa-haynes/
LinkedIn (Personal): https://www.linkedin.com/in/lyssa-haynes-56289841/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/school/highpointu/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/highpointu/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HighPointU
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HighPointU
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@highpointu
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/highpointuniversity

Key Quotes:
1. “The funds are in the follow up.”
2. “Be nice to everyone, you never know who they are.” – Randy Garn
3. “You are your own brand.”
4. “The impact of social media continues to grow.”
5. “Social media is all about frequency and responsiveness.”
6. “You are the outward voice of your organization.”
7. “The act of getting there and starting is the hardest part.”
8. “When people send you a message and want to hear from you then you need to get back to them.”
9. “You’ve got to adapt.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
2022 Trust Outlook Research Study: https://trustedge.com/the-research/
High Point University: https://www.highpoint.edu/

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
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Show Transcript

David Horsager:
Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have a special guest in a special place. We’re doing a special episode today from high point university. And if you’re watching today, you’ll see the cool studio here. We’ve got a team of four or five people in studio. So I’m grateful for each of you around studio. We’re grateful for high point university. As many of you know, I serve on the board of the university, but at high point, I’m the expert and restaurant trust, expert and residence at high point university and love what they’re doing here. At high point, we’re having a great day together speaking, sharing about trust. But today in this moment, we get a learn from a great professor here. She started her career at Xerox. She spent 17 years at Johnson and Johnson. She was a consultant at Allergan. She has a fascinating life and loves fitness, loves family, and loves her work and her new career teaching here at Highpoint university. So please welcome Alyssa Haynes, Lyssa Haynes, Lyssa. All right. You got it right now. All right. Well, tell us just a little bit about your background.

Lyssa Haynes:
So you’re right. You’re absolutely. I started with Xerox, like the department chair here. So that’s a wonderful training ground for anyone. And then most of my career was at Johnson and Johnson in multiple different positions. I started off as a sales rep and then went from there into a position at Allergan working across the nation with a wonderful team. And then from there I went into working at a hospital in business development, and then I came

David Horsager:
Here and along the way you had some kids and now you’re at high point.

Lyssa Haynes:
I did have some

David Horsager:
Kids by the way, people can look it up. It’s a really cool spelling of Lyssa. So yes, my, my wife’s name is Lisa too, so I’ve got that down, but it

Lyssa Haynes:
Is unusual. I changed it in high school because nobody could say it

David Horsager:
Yes, no, it’s it’s great. So tell us this. Let’s let’s jump into sales. We’re gonna get personal a little bit later. We’re gonna talk about a few different pieces on sure. Leadership teaching sales, but tell us, what did you learn those first years? You’re going into Xerox. You became, you joined the $2 million club really quickly. What, what do you think it takes to be great at sales?

Lyssa Haynes:
Perseverance? Okay. I would say when everybody loves to connect to people, that’s a lot of the reason why students are interested in going into sales. But I think a lot of times they don’t realize how much true grit and true work ethic. And you have to self motivate those days when you really don’t feel like going out and talking to 15 different offices, you gotta make yourself do it. And it’s so it’s, it’s hard work, but you just keep going. It’s perseverance.

David Horsager:
Think we, we talk about, you know, one of the pillars of trust is consistency. Yes. We talk about sameness consist. I’d rather have a salesperson that is the same will do the same thing every time. Correct, consistently. And we’ve the, what do they say? The, the, the follow up is key. The funds are in the follow up, right?

Lyssa Haynes:
The funds are definitely in the follow up. Yeah. You can have the best plan. And I talked to my marketing students about this too. You can have the best laid plan, most beautiful marketing plan or sales plan that you’ve put together. But if you don’t follow up on it and you, you have, you know, you connect to somebody, but then you don’t get back to them for a month. Well, they’ve already forgotten who you are.

David Horsager:
We talked about listening a little bit ago. Tell, tell us what, what, what makes a person a great listener? I think I saw the research recently that we listen about half the time or are supposed to and yet people are trained on listening. Maybe 2% of the, of, of sales leaders and people are trained. Maybe only 2% of them are even trained on this amazing skill. What, what are some tips to be a better

Lyssa Haynes:
Listener listener? I would say for the primary thing is picking up nonverbals because, you know, if you’re really paying attention to somebody and looking in their eyes, you know, if they’re really picking up what you’re laying down or they’re like a lost and somewhere else. So I think picking up the nonverbal that people are hearing you, and if they’re not, then you gotta change it up a little bit. And what you’re saying. And also you’re listening not to continue to speak. You’re listening to try to get them to speak because as a salesperson, it doesn’t matter what I say. I’m not learning anything about my customer by talking, I’m learning by listening. So and then I know what they need and then I can help them.

David Horsager:
So how do, well, how has sales, it’s changed a little bit over the last few years now, we’ve got digital and everything else. What are some of the things we should be thinking about as we sell today in this new digital A.I. M.L. World?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, I think in a way we were just talking about prospecting in my count in my class last week and prospecting today, I think with social media is much easier because you don’t have to rely on data directories and the phone book and knocking on just random doors. You can actually learn a lot more about people through LinkedIn and through various social media, business pages, Facebook business pages. You’re often gonna have more information there that’s current than what we used to have to deal with back in our little files, do that. We

David Horsager:
Flip, if we say, we need to answer the phone, how are we gonna get them to answer today? It seems like, oh, it’s a tough time. Sometimes actually getting their attention. What can we do

Lyssa Haynes:
Well when trying to get people’s attention often, it’s, you’re not gonna get right to the person you wanna talk to. So we just talked about this this week as well, you know, at that gatekeeper, that first person that you’re talking to and an officer on the phone, you’ve got it. They’re your first customer. So you gotta treat them just like you’re gonna treat the CEO that trying to actually talk to, or the surgeon that you want to be in front of, for me, for most of my career, they, if you’re not nice to the people along the way to get there they’re the ones that are gonna help you each and every time from that point forward, if you make that work,

David Horsager:
I was in salt lake city just two days ago speaking, or I guess I flew in yesterday and I was eating dinner with a friend of mine, amazing sales gentleman, but we sat down and next to us was the CEO of a massive company. And they run a huge foundation. And I won’t say that the, the name’s here to get us off track, but we just happened to sit down and notice something there and, and say hi to them. And they’re, they’re getting older, but they were celebrating their I think it was 47th wedding anniversary. Wow. And, and we just had a great visit, great encouragement time with them. And now it sounds like they’re coming to our trusted leader summit in Minnesota. And what, what I thought the interesting, what my friend Randy Garn said across the table from me said, be nice to everyone. You never know who they are. Absolutely. And, you know, be nice to everyone, be kind to everyone notice everyone. So

Lyssa Haynes:
You never know what influence that they have. So, and, and they everyone’s important

David Horsager:
Every absolutely. Yeah. In spite of what they can ever do for you. Yes. Every because of who we are. I, I like the idea. I remember this story when, when you know, this, the, there’s a story about this gentleman you know, tipping his hat to the prostitute. And the, the, the person with him said, what did you do that for? She’s a prostitute. Do you not know who she is, what she’s doing? And the, the gentleman said, well, I don’t tip my hat because of who she is. I tip my hat because I am a gentleman and a gentleman always tips his hat to a lady. Wonderful. So who, who we are matters. Right, right.

Lyssa Haynes:
You’re representing yourself. You’re your own brand. Exactly.

David Horsager:
Yes. So let’s jump to marketing for a moment. You know, marketing’s changed a, a, a lot, lot in the last years. What, what are some of the changes you see and what are you teaching about how to deal with those changes, especially as we’ve gone. So digital, and as an example something we’ve seen in the data we put out one of the biggest studies on trust and leadership out of north America, the trust outlook. And we see continually online testimonials, as example, as an example are tanking because nobody trusts or, or review

Lyssa Haynes:
Anymore

David Horsager:
Of reviews. Right. So what, what do we do? How do, how do we deal with this change in marketing? What are you teaching?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, one is, you’re absolutely right. It has changed dramatically. The impact of social media continues to grow E each and every year in the pandemic. I think it took some really big leaps. And that’s a way for the message to get across. It’s also a way for companies to get a pulse on what people are thinking and it’s, and yes, the testimonials and reviews nowadays can be purchased. And you’re paying for somebody to say something that, so they’ve lost some impact, but the, the, the interchange and the information that’s going back and forth on social media is real. And it’s in real time and people are talking, they just have to be making sure that they’re hearing it and that they’re responding quickly. And they’re you know, social media is all about frequency and responsiveness.

David Horsager:
So how do we, there’s so much now, I mean, we talk about trust and authenticity and all these things. And yet he’s like, is that really, that person that’s answering for me, E even for me, I can’t watch everything outta the Institute, or even people that are right. David HK. And in one of my biggest challenges, when we’ve had marketing companies just authentically, we’ve had some marketing companies help us. And in my opinion, they put a dent in our brand because they said something on behalf of the Institute or this trust, it doesn’t fit. I wouldn’t say it that way. I wouldn’t do it that way. And so we were, you know, trying to share this message we care about, right. And believe in and believe can impact the world. And yet we need help sometimes. So you hire some marketing or help, and you want them to have our voice. We want them to help share this message so that we can impact the world greater. But it’s a, it’s a tough thing. What should we look for when we’re looking at or I should just say it this way, what are the best marketing people online doing differently?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, I’d say back to the consistency, I think you’re definitely looking for a consistent message. So whoever’s doing it on behalf of you has to, has to be completely trained and 100% understand and have a passion for what you’re doing so that they are trying to say it better. And more like you would say it because they are bought and sold in that idea as well. And they’re representing you the way that you want to be represented because you can’t, I mean, you know, one, one person is just a one person. So once a business becomes so large, you’ve got to have people that are there and representing your message. And I would say, you know, just trying to make sure if it’s not consistent with your brand, that you’re going back and revisiting, Hey, this is not, this doesn’t sound like me. This would’ve been the way I would’ve answered it. So constantly trying to bring those two closer together.

David Horsager:
One thing my brother always said, he said, never give your voice. When you have a strong brand, like we’ve tried to build over 22 years, right. I’ve never give your voice to someone else. Never give the marketing to someone else. So we are, we’re thinking about what do we have help with and what don’t we, so that it is right. Truly all us, as far as this is the same reason, I’ve always believed in, you know, writing your own books. You know, there’s a lot of people, I, I couldn’t believe it when I heard of how many books are ghost written. I don’t doesn’t mean I don’t need help to have editing or that kind of thing, but it’s like, if you’re gonna put your name on it,

Lyssa Haynes:
Don’t you wanna write it yourself?

David Horsager:
Yeah. Not ought to be you. And I think that’s wrong to have all these people, especially like I don’t have people, you know, I don’t want them writing certain things or being certain things on my behalf. I want that. That’s gotta be me. If I’m gonna have my name on it. Now outta the Institute, we have a bigger, bigger thing going, and we can go beyond, beyond me. But so tell me now you’ve got these students, they’re gonna be a, maybe they’re gonna be a sales and marketing leader. You’re you were a sales and marketing leader. What would you say? What are some of the key things to learn right now? What, what do people need to learn? I mean, we know they need to learn how to learn, because everything’s gonna change again in five years, right? What, what should we be learning? What should, and for those that are out there today, the, the sales and marketing leaders, what should they be actively learning? We, we talk about the competency, pillars, staying fresh and relevant and capable. How should they do it today?

Lyssa Haynes:
I think you know, obviously coming out of the pandemic for all of us, that things have changed to a degree. I see that you know, what their experience has been in learning has been different. So I think they’re more flexible with that, but they also need to understand the importance of preparation. And at this age I think they, they are in tune with social media and they are in tune with education, like as we were with education, but understanding that a large amount of preparation that it takes to go into any career. But for sure, sales and marketing, because you are the outward voice of your organization, you are the one that’s representing that culture and that brand. So you’ve gotta be prepared every time that you get into a situation. And, and when you’re new, it’s very difficult to wing it.

David Horsager:
Well, one thing I love about Highpoint university is there are plenty of PhDs and research based folks here, but in the sales department and in many the departments, there are people that have actively done this. Like you just joined the, you know, team of professors in sales, but you were a real salesperson. You didn’t just study it, you did it. Right. And so, but now you become an educator, you’ve become an academic, right? Yes. Wow. So how do you teach it in a way these days that sticks, that makes a difference? How, how, what are you thinking about how to take what you’ve learned all these years to be a top salesperson, right. And how are you gonna transfer it to these 20 year olds?

Lyssa Haynes:
I give them a lot of examples of things that I did and lessons that I learned, but I also make them for instance, you know, part of a marketing job is, well, every marketing job is writing a great marketing plan. So that’s what my students had to do this week. They had to write a marketing plan. They could pick the company, they could work together, cuz team is often done in a marketing setting. So I’m trying to give them real world experiences to the best that I can, or at least exercises. I had them create a social media content calendar, so they could, you know, what are the posts gonna be for the next week? And what are the, what are they gonna say? What’s the image gonna be? Or is it, are you gonna use a video? So they had to kind of plan all that. So they’re, they’re actually doing it. Instead of just hearing about it, because I think often especially young people, I think they gotta do to, to kind of digest it and really get it learn

David Horsager:
By doing yeah.

Lyssa Haynes:
Learn by doing, I, I liked the, the act of doing when I was learning, I felt like I could, it sunk in more and I retained it better.

David Horsager:
So we didn’t get to go through the questions ahead of time. So I’m just surprising you as we go. But tell us about a lot of times we learned from failure. A lot of us have had plenty of it. Right? What, what’s a big failure had sales market,

Lyssa Haynes:
A big failure. I had, I would say gosh, that’s a really good question. I’m trying to think of a very specific example. That would be most powerful. I would say that at the hospital that I was at most recently every year we made sure that we were making the plan for the hospital and, and achieving what we wanted to. And obviously when, when the pandemic hit, you have to completely all of your plan, your well laid plans have to be scrapped overnight and you have to turn around and come up with a new plan. And yes, it was a difficult time and yes, it was different. But I really thought that the new things that we came up with to do, and the new ways we tried to connect with people without being in front of them would work better than they did. It took more time than I expected. And, and it was a real big disappointment to me that, that so many people it just, they were just kind of frozen, not only our team, but the people we were calling on, it was just kinda like everybody was kind of scrambling with what to do. And I felt like I always felt like I could’ve done something better.

David Horsager:
Did you think of anything? I wish I would’ve done this differently. What would’ve I done? Is there something you would’ve done reacted?

Lyssa Haynes:
I think I would’ve started the, the, you know, it took probably about four to six months for people to get used to online meetings. And I think I would’ve pushed that sooner, than trying to come up the curve on that a little bit. I mean, we were doing it already to an extent, but I think if it would’ve been a little bit more seamless than maybe we wouldn’t have lost as much energy out there.

David Horsager:
Yeah. So let’s make a big jump here to personal what we’ve noticed about great leaders and people. Yes. Is that they lead themselves well, and while we all do it imperfectly I know you’re big into fitness and other things, but what

Lyssa Haynes:
I am passionate

David Horsager:
About it, what are some things you’re doing to lead yourself well, so that you can be a great leader, a great professor and a great example to others?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, I do, I do passionately believe in fitness. It’s been something that I have done since I was very young right outta college. I started teaching fitness because it was, it was enjoyable to me to, to bring everybody into that world. Even the people that don’t think they can. But for me, it gives me energy. It makes me happy. I don’t do it for anyone else. I do do it for myself and not personally the way that it, it makes me feel. But I think sharing that with other people is also I really get a lot of enjoyment out of somebody who says, oh, I just started working out and I it’s really I’ve found something. I like, cuz it doesn’t matter what you do. As long as you enjoy doing it. You’ll do it again.

David Horsager:
Well, that’s, I believe in that, but I love to fly fish and I love to downhill ski and I only do ’em once a year. Yeah.

Lyssa Haynes:
It’s those are hard to do. So how do I, every day,

David Horsager:
Because I think the big excuse, isn’t a lot of the great sales leaders today that I would hear this an excuse from would say, I love to play this and love to play that when I was 20. But then I got so busy in my sales career, I’m flying three times a week, I’m doing this and this and this. Right. How did you do it? How did you preserve and prioritize time? You’re a mother of twins. You did all these things. You were had this career the whole time. How did you make time for it in the busiest times?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, I’m a huge scheduler. I love to set up a plan and set up my time. I, I always schedule my time and it was part is just like an appointment. Like it was an appointment with for my time and that, you know, the thing about, I allowed people think with fitness, you’ve gotta dedicate all of this tremendous amount of time. You really don’t a daily, 30 minutes will work. If that’s all the time that you, you had, how did you, when you’re on road, even if it it’s 20, it’s better than

David Horsager:
None. So let’s take you on the busiest days you were on the road, you gotta show up with that surgeon. You gotta show this device. You gotta deal with this workflow of patients. Yes. How, how did you, how did you schedule then? Was there a best time right away in the morning later? How did you do it?

Lyssa Haynes:
I was in evening workout. I like to do it at the end of the day. A lot of people like prefer in the morning because they go ahead and get it done. I’m just already kind of on my day and thinking about my day. So that’s when I could kind re-energize myself is at the end of the day. So that the evening was you know, I had the, it gives you energy. A lot of people don’t think so, but for me it gave me energy. So that kind of revved me back up. And

David Horsager:
So, so there’s people listening and they, they believe in work. Of course, fitness isn’t born, of course is, but they’re not doing it right. What’s the first step. What can they start doing? What should they start doing?

Lyssa Haynes:
Carve out 10 minutes, carve out 10 minutes. Cuz most of the time, even if like, if you’re going to the gym, you say I’m just gonna go to 10 minutes or I’m just gonna go outside and walk for 10 minutes. Usually they won’t walk for 10 minutes, they’ll walk for 15 or 20 because they actually it’s the act of getting there. Mm starting that’s the hardest part.

David Horsager:
Just keep the

Lyssa Haynes:
Workout clothes on. That’s the hardest part is getting going. Like I tell when I would have fitness classes that would come and I’d say, you’ve already done the hardest part you got here and that’s the thing just get started and you don’t have to do anything. You know, a lot of people start a fitness program. They want to, oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do three days a week and working out and an hour of cardio and two days a week, I’m gonna lift for 20 minutes. You know, maybe that’s too much to start, like start with a little bit. And, and then once you start that as a habit, then you can grow from there.

David Horsager:
Any other habits that have helped you be a better mom or a better leader?

Lyssa Haynes:
I would definitely say communication, you know, making sure, you know, I knew what my kids needed. I knew when there were events that I needed to be there for them. I knew you know what my boss needed. I knew, you know, just keeping tabs with everybody, frequent communication as well as quick response. I was always one to, and I feel strongly about when people send you a message you wanna hear from you, then you need to get back to them because they send it to you for a reason, yeah. Even if it’s, Hey, I’ll get back to you. I got your message. I’ll get back to you cuz you didn’t have time to really thoughtfully think about the answer. At least you’re getting back.

David Horsager:
So you’re a, you’re an educator now you’re this in this academic world, what do, what are you learning? What are you curious about these days?

Lyssa Haynes:
Wow, this, I, I would say this definitely pushed me outta my comfort zone cuz after a long career and doing what you’re doing, you can do it in your sleep. It, you know, seeing students every single day and teaching them and sharing them everything that I’ve gotten up here that was different. That was definitely new. And you have a certain curriculum that you’re teaching. So I had to make it mine. So learning that, how to take the curriculum that we have and adapting it to what I know. So, you know you’ll have a whole PowerPoint in front of you and you’ll scrap the whole thing and write your own so it took more time, but it was now in a second semester doing it. I it’s it’s funny. I looked at something I did last semester yesterday cuz I was gonna present it today and I said, oh wow. I just and I didn’t have my notes in front of me and everything I wrote down was exactly the same thing I would’ve said before. So it’s, it’s learning about what connects and what works too. Yeah. Because you know, if you see a sea of students out there listening to what you’re saying, and you’re not, you, you just know they’re not hearing it. Yep. Then you gotta change. You gotta adapt

David Horsager:
Contextualizing. And we know our work. What we’re constantly thinking about when we teach even facilitators and coaches is thinking, okay, that’s really great content. That’s really good ideas. But what does that mean to them? Correct. Right now? Correct. What does that mean to them right now? We even talk about there’s a lot of people call himself thought leaders and we, yeah, we do all this research and stuff, but you’re thought leader, once you take that new research and ideas and, and adapt it mean something to them in that boardroom or that classroom.

Lyssa Haynes:
Right. And keeping it current. I mean, EV you know, they don’t wanna hear always what happened 20 years ago. They wanna hear what’s going on now. Yep. And what’s gonna mean when they get outta school. Yeah.

David Horsager:
Yes. Great. Well, you can find more about Lyssa Haynes and the other great professors here at high point university at high point university. Tell me, like I said, at highpoint.edu. All right. They might cut it. They might not, but you’ll never forget it. Highpoint.edu, you can see all of the experts in residence from a host of them from Wosniak to Sandborn, to McCain and other dear friends, the founder of Netflix and the CEO of the Dallas Mavericks. It’s been a treat to be a part of high point. You’re gonna just, it’s an amazing campus. If you ever get, get, come on campus, it’s a an amazing place. There are amazing professors. It’s been a treat to be with you, Lisa,

Lyssa Haynes:
Thank you so much.

David Horsager:
And the last question is it’s the trusted leader show, right? Who’s the leader you trust and why?

Lyssa Haynes:
Well, I would say my boyfriend who was major general for the United States army and he has, he’s retired recently and people from all over continue to call him for advice. People that worked under him, colleagues of his it’s the trust that they had in him. They want to hear what he would do in a situation. He was great in a crisis. He was great as a mentor. In fact, when he retired, the guy that led that was under him immediately under him, flew a flag across all the stations that he had worked. And in his whole career, even the one at the Pentagon. So to, to have somebody really be that passionate about their leader was to me, incredible. I certainly didn’t have that for anybody that did it for me, but you know, connecting and trust was key for leading people in very precarious situations for a very long time. So I hope to be that kind of leader someday. And I think that’s what leaders, I think that’s what it means to be a leader.

David Horsager:
Sounds like we need to have on the trusted leader show at some point.

Lyssa Haynes:
I think that would be fascinating.

David Horsager:
So another time, thank you, Lyssa Haynes. This is David Horsager and it’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 81: Simon T. Bailey on How To Ignite The Power Of Women

In this episode, David sits down with Simon T. Bailey, Success Coach, Speaker, Author, TV Host, and Philanthropist, to discuss how to ignite the power of women in your life.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Simon’s Bio:
Simon’s purpose is to Spark listeners to lead countries, companies, and communities differently.

His framework is based on his 30 years’ of experience in the hospitality industry, including serving as sales director for Disney Institute, based at Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando, FL. He is a prolific author and Hall of Fame Keynote Speaker that has worked with Signet Jewelers, SalesForce, T-Mobile, Stanford Healthcare, General Mills and Hilton Hotels just to name a few.

An experience with Simon goes beyond feel-good content. He delivers practical strategies and impacts real lives. He connects with any audience on many levels with a relevant message that resonates beyond the stage.

Simon’s viral video posted by Goalcast to Facebook has 90 million views and LinkedIn Learning features three of his online courses that reach professionals in 100+ countries. Recently, Simon became a certified Caritas Coach, leading with heart-centered intelligence. His approach is grounded in Caring Science that focuses on preserving human dignity, wholeness as the highest gift to self, systems, and society.

His wisdom and expertise enabled an Orlando-based healthcare system to be acquired and a division of a hospitality company to be ranked No. 1 for customer service by Expedia.com. Simon serves on two unique boards; U.S. Dream Academy and Orlando Health Foundation where he is a five year board member that has 20,000 employees and over $1 Billion in revenue. Recently, Cleary University, a 138 year old institution in Holland, Michigan, rewarded him with a Doctorate of Science in Business Administration for his global impact.

Simon’s Links:
Website: https://simontbailey.com/
“Ignite The Power Of Women In Your Life – A Guide For Men” by Simon T. Bailey: https://amzn.to/3kGnfyS
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BrilliantSimonT
Twitter: https://twitter.com/simontbailey
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/simontbailey/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simontbailey

Key Quotes:
1. “Any organization, country, or community that’s going to be worth its salt in the future must do right by women.”
2. “Whatever you don’t deal with will eventually deal with you.”
3. “How you’re showing up personally literally overlaps in how you show up professionally.”
4. “Women problem solve different than men.”
5. “Trust is the emotional glue of all relationships.”
6. “I believe we are now in the era of moving from customer service to human service.”
7. “It’s not about what I can get, but it’s about what I can give.”
8. “Leadership is caught and leadership is taught.”
9. “Give a hand up not a hand out.”
10. “Do hard work in a human way.”
11. “Leaders have to self reflect.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Ignite The Power Of Women In Your Life – A Guide For Men” by Simon T. Bailey: https://amzn.to/3kGnfyS
“Release Your Brilliance” by Simon T. Bailey: https://amzn.to/3MWu0ZF
“Shift Your Brilliance” by Simon T. Bailey: https://amzn.to/3sfPSae

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. It’s David Horsager. I’m back with another amazing human a friend. We were in a mastermind group over a decade ago, I think. His name is Simon T. Bailey. Simon, thanks for being on the show.

Simon T. Bailey:
So good to be with you

David Horsager:
All the way from Florida today is home state. There’s so much we could say about Simon. He is years as an executive at Walt Walt with Walt Disney at the Disney Institute, based on Walt Disney world resort in Florida. He has a via year old video on gold cast on, on Facebook, over 90 million views. He’s written a load of books we’ve spoken together on the same platform several times, but one of the times I remember is the change effort we were on together. I with Toyota. Yes. And that was a fantastic experience. You’re, you know, I could read the clients, they’re just the elite clients from around the world. You speak train mentor, author, and and you’re a friend, so we’re gonna dig into it because you’ve got a great new book out that is, is, is fascinating. But maybe let, let’s just start with, give us, give us a couple minute background on Simon T Bailey for anybody who doesn’t know who you are.

Simon T. Bailey:
Oh my goodness. Grew up in Buffalo, New York, 30 years of experience in the hospitality industry, six different companies, 10 different jobs. And since leaving Disney we’ve worked with about 2000 organizations in 50 countries and I kind of swim in one key lane. That’s obviously leadership customer experience in person development are kind of the areas that we get a chance to work in.

David Horsager:
Love it. And it overlaps with a lot of the work that we do in culture. And I know I was thinking of even back to the Toyota, trying to in, in our part of the, of that project basically just thinking back to this, they were gonna move all these people that didn’t necessarily wanna move to this one state from multi sites. And we’re our, our task, at least from the Institute here was keeping high trust or building trust in the midst of change and a whole lot of transition there. So we had a, about a several month project and then you and I got to meet together at least at the, I think the opening and closing keynote parts of that project and bringing in the C H R O and actually the CEO dropped down from right from Japan there, I think on one of those mm-hmm times.

David Horsager:
So that was fun, but I think you affect culture and you, you agree, or at least it seems like your work really aligns with what we say, and that is organizations never change individuals do. So you, you have an individual, but if an individual change, then a team, a country, a company can change. So that, that’s the fun of it. Let’s dive today to this new book. You know, I remember your, give us the top two other books, brilliance remind me of that one, just a, just a little overview of top two other ones. At least you can pick as many as you want, but let’s take a couple of, and then let’s get to the new one because this is different.

Simon T. Bailey:
Yeah. So release your brilliance which is what I’m really known for that book is all about how do you release the potential and the genius in individuals when they’re working in an organization and then shift your brilliance in a world of transformation, how do you begin to shift and stay relevant for where things are going?

David Horsager:
Absolutely. And there’s a whole lot of great in those. And you can, we’ll talk about those another time. You’ll see how to find more about Simon in the show all of his web and, and LinkedIn and, and ways to connect with him. And but let’s get into this new book and it it’s really it’s an important as you know, but it is ignite the power of women in your life, a guide for men, tell us about it.

Simon T. Bailey:
So here’s the research from McKenzie organizations that have women as executive leaders. When you look at the bottom line, 25% increase in the bottom line so organizations and businesses that really are thinking about women in the right way, there’s a net net result. And this book is really birth out of a conversation. A few years ago, I was speaking to 200 CEOs in San Diego, and I simply said, any organization, country, or community that is gonna be worth its salt in the future must do right by women because all the research was sharing and saying, this is the right thing to do.

David Horsager:
I, and we, we know it and we have half the population as women, and yet still there’s some disregard. And this reminds me of something. I did a was speaking an executive event several months ago, actually last summer and about a hundred executives about a little over half were women. And they’re all seniors who in your leaders mm-hmm . And I said, how many of you have had this happen where you had an idea you shared in the boardroom, let’s say, and just raise your hand as if this is you, you, you had an idea, you shared it. Nobody really said anything within a few minutes, a guy had the idea and everybody listened or everybody, or, you know, it became a big deal. And 100% of women have had that happen where nobody listened to them, say the, but said by a man, just a few minutes later, exact, exact thing of it, every woman, 100% raised their hand, but you know, give us, give us just the biggest start. Like, why did you start thinking about this book? Why did you start writing it personally? Why, why is this personal to you?

Simon T. Bailey:
Yeah, for me, it started with my therapist. I went through a divorce after 25 years of being married and my therapist said, she said, whatever you don’t deal with will eventually deal with you. How you showing up personally, literally overlaps at how you show up professionally. So I had to do my own work. So the first step was emotional honesty being okay with being vulnerable and doesn’t make me last less masculine, but really understanding was I showing up having that honest conversation with the women in my life. And certainly the women professionally that I work with, that was the first thing, probably the second eye opener was this ability to really listen instead of having selective hearing. So one of the examples is that sometimes women are tee up ideas, but men tend to cut them off before they’re finished and which erodes trust. Right.

David Horsager:
And I’m guilty of it with my, by the way, just to be fair. I, I say it all the time. I speak about this trust work and I’m totally imperfect at all of it. I just know it’s true from the research. But when you say that conviction levels go up in my own heart of something I did in my, with my wife, when she was trying to share something last night and I cut her off, you know, it’s like, oh no, you’re right. Yeah.

Simon T. Bailey:
So, so it was these, these personal things that I was discovering. And then when I looked professionally, I was like, oh my goodness, there is something here. So to really, so, so here’s, here’s the NetApp women problem solve different than men. Men. We sometimes take a linear approach. Women have a 360 degree view of a situation and they will ask questions that we haven’t thought of. So when women are truly visible their visibility creates credibility because of the power of their question. The other thing that we notice is that women are going to make sure that everyone benefits, not just a person who’s looking out for themselves. So they’re gonna make sure that every employee, every team member has a hand up, not just a handout, it’s because of how they’re wired. So organizations and businesses that take advantage of that, they are moving into the future.

David Horsager:
Just so I hear this right. Do you ever have pushback on, on saying men and women are different?

Simon T. Bailey:
Oh, totally, totally. But it’s true. right. They know it’s true, but I actually say it.

David Horsager:
Yeah. Yeah. I just wonder, because you know, we get there’s, there’s such value. I think that the truth is just like all people, right? We’re all different. We all have different gifts, abilities, talents, backgrounds, a host of other things. Mm-Hmm and the, the, the work of this work of all DEI belonging work is that all are valued. All humans. Right. But it’s it’s, it’s, we’re all different too. And that’s actually okay to be celebrated. That’s why would be rude to say I’m colorblind. I don’t see you as anything. Yo, I see exactly who you are and you have incredible value. I see your, this person as a woman, I see that you are my black friend from, you know, Florida. I see that you are, that I see you, but it’s, it’s the value in it. So tell me about this. You talk about in the book, the imprint of your father mm-hmm and lots of things come to mind here, but tell us about it.

Simon T. Bailey:
So what I really discovered, how I was showing up at home, my father never told me verbally that he loved me, but he did other things, food on the table, closed my back, sheltered over my head. That was his way of communicating that he loved me. But what I did is with my children, I didn’t affirm them because my father didn’t affirm me. And my then wife said to me, you need to do something about that. And I started talking with my father. He shared with me the story that really opened my eye and what I recognize. I was modeling the imprint that he had modeled. So the whole father’s imprint. It shows up personally in your life and you go into the workplace and that same type of mindset. I don’t need to appreciate you. I don’t need to value you. I don’t need to tell you what you’re doing. Right. It carried over. So once I went to therapy and Anita, my therapist really helped open my eyes. I was like, whoa, you gotta be kidding me. And it was really the journey to getting the work, to say, how do I ch treat human beings by using the appreciation language that they need to feel valued in any environment where they show up

David Horsager:
Three things come to mind very quickly. And I want to get into the practices a little bit before I do. When you say appreciation language, what’s that look like?

Simon T. Bailey:
So for instance, if you and I are working together, do a, do you like a handwritten note? Do you like a verbal say here’s what you’re doing, right? Do you like a phone call? What makes you know that you are moving in the right direction? What’s that appreciation language years ago, when I was working at Disney, I would bring everybody together. And I said, okay, I’m gonna celebrate this particular person. And she runs out of room. And I said to my sister, I said, go after her. I said, find out what happened. And my sister came back and said, she doesn’t like public recognition, huge learning. Her appreciation language was the handwritten note.

David Horsager:
Wow. How do you find out other than having an embarrassing moment on stage? How do you find out, is there a, is there a test that you, an assessment? What do you, you recommend?

Simon T. Bailey:
So number one, ask. Absolutely never assume ask the question because that person can tee up and say, here’s exactly the way I want to be appreciated.

David Horsager:
Hmm. I love it. Tell me this, let’s go off the rails for a second here because the world we’re in and, and the pandemic is really made people. Certainly you have been very vulnerable about what’s happened the last few years. You’ve been authentic of you about it. You’ve been humble about it. You’re a, still the strong leader. I know, but, but your strength has a new depth in the humility you’ve shown both publicly. And I, you know, that’s what I can speak to, I guess, as a friend too, maybe, but tell, you know, there’s, there’s a new appreciation for therapy, counseling coaching that, you know, coaching has only been on the stage for 20 years and it’s like, everybody finally saw the best of have coaches, not just the best golf players or the best football players, but the best corporate athletes, right. The best, the best CEOs. So coaching’s kind of, you know, become more and more palatable. I think counseling, Ooh, therapy. Yikes. Right. So kind of differentiate those and tell us the value.

Simon T. Bailey:
I think the value number one with therapy is to talk to someone who can dig in your past and put up a mirror in front of you to invite you, to see how do you reckon with the past and make sense of it, right? Where you work with an executive coach. And I’ve been blessed to work with a number of executive coaches. They help you look through the windshield of where you’re going. The therapist helps you look at the rear view mirror of where you’ve been and how I reconcile those two is to decide what are the ha habits, behaviors, and actions that I’m going to take on a consistent basis to do my work, cuz here’s the net net, Dave. There, it makes no sense for me to stay out on stage, to write a book or to say anything to anyone. If my house is jacked up, if my personal life is jacked up, I’m not doing my work. And what I recognize through using an executive coach and a therapist is I must first work on me so that I become better for you.

David Horsager:
What do you say to the, to the AAA senior leader, likely male that says, okay, coach, I can, I can handle that. I I’m looking for, Hey, I’m just, we, we don’t need to live in the past because you know, I mean the past is done. The future is where we’re going. I’m gonna have a coach. What a therapist, what do I need that for? Why should I ever look back?

Simon T. Bailey:
Because sometimes there are blind spots that we don’t see or recognize that show up in other behaviors that others clearly see, but you can’t see the picture when you’re in the frame. So that’s the advantage of a therapist who is licensed that can go and do it in a healthy way to help you recognize that missing piece.

David Horsager:
It’s the, see some people saying I’m afraid of the past. Let me just leave that. Right. I think this is great stuff. Thank you for, for that. And your vulnerability also just in, in many other ways. So let’s just, let’s give a little you know, a little peek, at least at the four practices you talk about in the book.

Simon T. Bailey:
Yeah. So one of the first ones I really start with is forgiveness. I, I think the ability to just look at and say, you know what, I’m not gonna get it right. Every single time. How do I start with a place of just asking for forgiveness? And, and even as I put a toll in the water to do right by everyone and to make sure everyone belongs, that’s the first one, the

David Horsager:
Second can stop you right there for that. Sure. And that is if I’m getting this right. That was mostly asking for forgiveness that wasn’t necessarily forgiving others. Is that true?

Simon T. Bailey:
It could actually be both,

David Horsager:
But is it so, it’s so hard for people when people ask me like, okay, I can ask for forgiveness finally, but I really forgiving people can talk about, oh, just forgive them. Just forgive them. It’s like, oh, that’s easy to say. That’s really hard to do when you’ve hurt me like that. Right. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm, what, anything you can give for how people could actually forgive someone,

Simon T. Bailey:
You know, what is simply acknowledging something has happened and saying, you know what? They may not recognize it, but I’m willing to be the bigger person and do the work and say, you know what, we’ve gotta let this go so that we grow together.

David Horsager:
Love it. And we’re both people of faith and there’s a whole lot of ways we’ve been forgiven. So we can, we can think about that too. That’s for me, if it’s really hard to forgive others, but to think of some of the, some of some faith components, at least in my life. So let’s jump to number two.

Simon T. Bailey:
Second is surrender. The ability to surrender is everything is not going to be black and white as you think it should be. When you surrender, you let go so that you can let it come. So point in case my daughter wanted to go to a concert and I was worried to death, oh my goodness, you’re going to this concert. Who’s going with you. What’s gonna happen. And I realized I had to come to a place where I just had to surrender her mother and I have raised her properly. She’s got the right values. And the moment we did everything worked out. And I think sometimes it’s the helicopter, their dad in me. And then sometimes executives, you know, we wanna swoop around everything, surrender, everything is going to work out,

David Horsager:
Love it. That is a really good word. My I have the same, you know, I care about my kids like you do or worried about ’em. We think about, and we want the best for them. And that can make us not always trust them. And my dad, 92 and a half years old. Now you get to add that half, once you get beyond nineties. So he said, if you can’t something like this, if you can’t trust your kids, it’s your fault.

Simon T. Bailey:
Wow. It

David Horsager:
It’s like you, you gotta be able to trust your kids and you know, that’s imperfectly. And of course there’s a life of it. Like you don’t trust your three year old to drive the car, but it is, it it’s this life of creating trustworthy kids. Yes. So that they, you know, instead of holding on forever, and I know there’s times I’ve held on in times I shouldn’t have, or certainly should have surrendered to allow learning even, you know, mm-hmm, , mm-hmm, great. All right. Number three.

Simon T. Bailey:
Third practice is around gratitude and we’ve heard gratitude early and often. But how I think about gratitude is intentionally every day. Here’s what I’m grateful for. And here are the people that I’m grateful for. And beginning to point that out, what that does for them as you teach and share trust is the emotional glue of all relationships. So when people know that they are seen through the lens of gratitude and, and that the organization and the business is thriving because of them, that just absolutely lights them up. So this ability being intentional about gratitude.

David Horsager:
Hmm. What’s a good way we could do that. Take that down one more level. What’s a way that you’re intentional about gratitude.

Simon T. Bailey:
You know what so I have a client that I worked with about six months ago, hadn’t talked to them and sent them a message through LinkedIn said, listen, haven’t heard from you. Hope all is well, just thinking about, you got a message right back. Thank you so much. That was so kind of you to reach out and there’s no business to be done at all. It’s just the ability to say I’m grateful. And I’m thinking about you.

David Horsager:
That’s sometimes it’s not so hard, but we need to do it. The simple little things, right? Yes. All right. Let’s move to number four. Love this stuff. The simple, real truth.

Simon T. Bailey:
compassionate human service. I believe we are now David in the era of moving from customer service to human service, where everyone is showing up from a spirit of kindness. And here’s what the research says. According to Emory university, when you have help others through compassionate human service, the reward centers in our brain begin to light up almost as if we have been on the receiving end of the compassionate human service that we’ve just given, guess what they call it, they call it the helpers high. So in other words, when I am compassionate, kind towards another human being, I am actually from a health standpoint, benefiting myself also. So this ability to ignite others by saying, it’s not about what I can get, but it’s about what I can give. Mm.

David Horsager:
I don’t have the research in front of me, but I remember reading something very similar about a volunteerism in humans almost cuts out suicide.

Simon T. Bailey:
Mm-Hmm

David Horsager:
the, the relationship of people. The amount of time people spend volunteering compared to, you know, those kind of things, suicidal thoughts or whatever. It’s a major you know, a, a lack of suicide, I should say, connection or inverse relationship. So the helpers high wow. Compassionate human service. Yes. I love it. So these four practices, a lot more in the book about this ignite the power of women, by the way, I think it’ll help you in every relationship you have. So we’ve got a few more things to talk about, but let’s go right here and give me your, your number one place to find you top website or place to find you. Simon T Bailey

Simon T. Bailey:
Simon T bailey.com T for terrific. . It was right there. It was right there.

David Horsager:
Oh, Simon T Bailey. What a guy. I miss our times of consistent communication. Simon. I need more of you. You made me better and continue to, but I wanna jump ahead here. We can, we can go backwards. We can go wherever you want to go, but let’s just talk about it. You jump ahead in chapter 10 to like, Hey, I, I, I’ve got 25 years of, so right now, 50 years of life, year and 25 years of marriage. Okay. So, and it’s awesome. And Lisa and I in the business together and, and in life together, and four kids together and strong marriage, strong relationship. And I think but you’ve got this. How can guys bring back romantic love? And, and you know, some, some interesting things there, give us some insight.

Simon T. Bailey:
Number one, go back to day one. When you first laid eyes on Lisa, what was it that captured your heart and what caused that arrow to strike through your heart from Cupid? Did you write a note? Did you buy a card? Did you buy a flower? Go back to a one because that’s how you capture her, whatever you did to get her, do it, to keep her that’s number one. The second thing is loving your children. By loving her, when your children see that you love her and you model that for them leadership is caught and leadership is taught. They are catching more from you by watching how you interact and talk and cherish Lisa, that models for them and leaves an imprint on them, of how they should do the same towards their spouse. The other thing is, life happens tough times happens, you know Dr. Ru Robert Schuler said tough times. Don’t last but tough people do when you and Lisa have those tough times, what do the children notice your, your team that works with you? How do you deal with those tough times? Because everything speaks.

David Horsager:
Hmm. I love that everything speaks. I’m write it down. I bet is unless you’re driving, how you show up in tough times and everything speaks. I think it’s, it’s so true. The way we can be the best parents is loving our spouse. Yes. And how we love them. They catch it. Mm-Hmm, one more top idea from the book. Before I ask you a couple leadership questions, as we land up playing here, what’s, what’s another top idea that you think it’d be worth touching on right now.

Simon T. Bailey:
So one of the things that I teach in the book is for every person to find out what is unique about the women in a company, in an organization, and then how do you become an ally for them in that organization? Theirs sponsor, giving them a hand up, not a handout, being intentional to celebrate their area of brilliance and, and wearing that brand t-shirt in rooms that they don’t have access to.

David Horsager:
People have said to me, in the pushback of that and I’ll just play with you here a little bit, but people have pushed back to me saying, well, look at if I go alone to dinner, or if I go to coffee, like I can take a guy, no problem. But if people see that it could be harassment, it could be like, people think, you know, I’m cheating on my wife and they have this big thing. What, what do they, what do they do? Especially in the last few you years, as you know, for real valid reasons, by the way you know, both sides, both with how men have treated women, certainly as we’ve seen from Hollywood to, to corporate, but also then of, of maybe good gentlemen being fearful of a look even if it’s, you know, not fair or whatever, what, what do you say?

Simon T. Bailey:
I love this question. So for the married men, talk to your spouse and say, there’s a female colleague that I’m gonna go to dinner with. Here’s what we’re going to talk about. Are you okay? Are you comfortable? And what you’re doing and honoring the trust that you half with your spouse, they say a or NA, secondly, for those who are men who are single men or divorce men taking a co a female colleague to dinner is to say, here’s my intention. Here’s what I need to discuss. And saying that upfront, it’s clear. It’s just communication. And I think when we have that honest communi and the truth is on the table, then we’re good.

David Horsager:
Yeah. So let’s take dinner off the table and say, what are other ways we can be allies for women? Like what, what are ways we can sponsor them without? I mean, I, I basically have a, we have a thing. I don’t travel alone with another, with a woman colleague, when I fly it’s or it’s with multiple. So the whole team is go flying somewhere to do something, but I will fly to the same city with Josh as an example, just as an appearance, we talk about trust. We have to be, you know, above reproach and look in a host of other ways, but how do I be you know, give women as an example, the same opportunities or better, or, you know, how do I, how do I show an ally if let’s, you know, take some of those things of, you’re not gonna do certain things alone, but you can do these.

Simon T. Bailey:
Yes. Number one, if you’re having a meeting say, Hey, can we have another colleague just kind of be a third party just to be a fly on the wall. Right. I think the second thing that we can do is give feedback instantly, Hey, how would we rate this meeting from one to five, five being the highest one, being the lowest, was this a good use of time? Did we get out of what we needed and what that does that just keeps everything open and honest? What else could we do going forward? What’s another way that we can approach collaborating. So it’s always in the spirit of dialogue, right? I think looking for projects and opportunities to leverage the brilliance of women to say, Hey, Hey, listen, I, I was invited to be on this project. I think you should be on this project, teeing their name up, pushing their name forward, always looking for the opportunity to make sure that you’re highlighting what they’re doing, right. Instead of what they’re doing wrong.

David Horsager:
Love it. What are you thinking about now? What are you learning about these days? You got the book out, you’re sharing this message and you’re still sharing your brilliance messages around the world and with companies around the world. What, what, what are you thinking about, what are you learning today?

Simon T. Bailey:
I just came across an interesting piece of research. Company looked at 5,000 organizations to really kind of put their arm around the time that we’re in. And they narrowed it down to seven words, which I said, that’s it, I believe. And like these, this, the research says doing hard work in a human way, doing hard work in a human way. I think if we could find a way to do hard work in a human way, because let’s just to be honest, business is tough, right? Things are moving so fast, but if we can still be human in how we interact with each other, that will go a long way. I’m also, I just recently got certified in this, in a space called caring science, caring. Science has been really big in the medical field, but what science is really about its heart centered intelligence. So if I’m doing hard work in a human way, I’m coming from my heart, not just my head to get to a result by letting everyone know that they are cared for. And they matter.

David Horsager:
I love it. Two great ideas. I think of the first one, doing hard work in a human way. It’s just the mix of tension. Like even, even in people talking about virtual and remote work, you’ve got on one side, the workers often saying employees saying, well, you gotta treat me more human. I need the right stuff. I need this. We’ve just been, you know, killed work on the other side, you got the, the company or the leaders saying, yeah, but we need the work to get in. We need results. We need this. And you have, see people do at different levels of success. Some people like some people don’t like results row w you know, the results work, work environment, but it’s just based on results, but you have to have help the accountability. And the other ones, don’t like the, just this, and then other people don’t want monitors under the seat. So they know when they’re sitting down at home and being watched. And we, we talk about all this with trust. I think it’s this, by the way, isn’t easy to do necessarily, but it is the right thing. Doing hard work in a, a human way is, is our goal. So now we gotta ask, how do we actually get there? And that’s a, that’s good for the next book. Huh?

Simon T. Bailey:
There it is.

David Horsager:
I love it. So some of the things I think, you know, we, we talked about this in the past, but you know, trusted leaders. And I certainly trust you as a friend and as a leader, but it seems like they’re doing little things consistently, even imperfectly, but how do you keep healthy yourself physically, mentally as a leader? What are you doing? What are the little things you’re doing consistently to just stay fresh, stay healthy, keep healthy relationships. What are, what are a couple, I, I guess what I would say is it seems like they have healthy habits, at least in some ways, what are some habits that you’re willing to share that you haven’t, we didn’t talk about this ahead. This is just a sure. Saying, Hey, what are some habits that, that you use to, to, to be the leader you need to be in front of many?

Simon T. Bailey:
Yeah. So taking my meds meds, meditate, exercise, diet, sleep when we take our meds that just helps us create internal alignment, which creates external execution. So every single day, my day starts between four, 4:30 AM. And I take the first couple of hours of the day. I use the Bible app. I have a meditation routine that I go through. I try to get my steps in and just making sure that first two hours of the day I’m working on me before I check an email, before I to a text, I’m just focusing on just getting quiet. And where I got that from was Harry Kramer is a clinical professor of leadership at the Kellogg school of business, former chairman and CEO of Baxter healthcare. And I said, Harry, for 40 years, like, what did you learn as CEO? He said, Simon leaders have to self reflect, self reflect. I said, what do you mean? And every day he said, for 40 years, I asked myself, how did I grow today? How did I make a difference today? And what am I gonna do better tomorrow? So this ability to self reflect, that’s the other thing that I do is just writing in my journal, cuz I am flawed and perfectly IM perfect. And, and being intentional about looking at, know what I drop the ball here. What am I gonna do different tomorrow?

David Horsager:
I love it. You know how many people I’ve asked this question to on this show, asking leaders, it’s shocking. How many people have journaling actually all of these, it comes back to yep. Oh, I got to exercise, yep. You got to eat, right? Yep. You got to sleep. Right. But it is a interesting also I think to people, how much journaling has come out in the top leaders journal, journal journal. So I love it. Boy. We could talk a long time. You’ve given us so much so quick. You’re a great interview, boy. I’m gonna say it right on here because you you’re, you’re quick. You’re tight. You’re responsive. You’re listening. Hey, we didn’t set this up ahead. We didn’t go through an exact series of questions. I had a few thoughts, but but way this was fun and fun to see you again. I hope everyone got as much as I did out of this great feedback, questions, doing hard work in a human way and a whole lot more the book again, ignite the power of women in your life. And Simon T Bailey. I’m so grateful for you. You can find out more about Simon T Bailey, Simon T bailey.com. You’ll see a lot more in the show notes for now. This has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 80: Bobby Herrera on 3 Areas of Culture Organizations Overlook

In this special episode, we feature one of the amazing speakers we had at the 2022 Trusted Leader Summit. In this clip from the mainstage, David sits down for a conversation with Bobby Herrera, Co-Founder and CEO of Populus Group, to discuss how to build a culture of trust and the three areas of culture organizations overlook.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Bobby’s Bio:
Bobby believes that everyone deserves an opportunity to succeed and is an unwavering champion for the underdog. He’s cofounder and CEO of Populus Group—one of the fastest-growing HR services companies in the United States with annual revenue of $500 million and many Fortune 100 customers. As one of thirteen children in a migrant family he learned the value of hard work, rising early and putting in long hours in the fields. After high school, boot camp became his ticket of opportunity. He serves on national community organization boards and is a regular speaker at corporations and service groups. He is a proud Army veteran. Bobby is most proud of his family—his wife Roslyn and their three children Santino, Griffith, and Sofia live in Portland, Oregon.

Bobby’s Links:
Website: https://bobby-herrera.com/
Populus Group: https://www.populusgroup.com/
“The Gift Of Struggle” by Bobby Herrera: https://amzn.to/3irNyIO
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobby-herrera-5781821/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BobbyHerreraPG
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bobbyherrera.pg/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bobbyherrerapg/

Key Quotes:
1. “Culture is a story that you’re narrating.”
2. “Stories connect us. They inspire us. They give us meaning.”
3. “We don’t like surprises, unless they’re good surprises.”
4. “Your culture, if you’re doing it right, it should repel some people.”
5. “You should not try to build a culture that is a one size fits all for everybody.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
2023 Trusted Leader Summit: http://trustedleadersummit.com/

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

Kent Svenson:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m Kent Svenson producer of the trusted leader show. And for this week’s episode, we wanted to feature one of the amazing speakers we had at the 2022 trusted leader summit in this clip from the main stage, David sits down for a conversation with Bobby Herrera co-founder and CEO of populus group, where they discuss how to build a culture of trust and the three areas, organizations unintentionally overlook when building their culture. So sit back, relax and enjoy the show

David Horsager:
We met. You can, I don’t, I I remember, and I’ve been able to speak there as different things, but I, I wanna just tell you my, my view. I get, uh, the privilege of working with, um, CEOs, senior leaders coming had some sports teams and governments and whatever. And there are very few on one hand that I can just think of that really get and drive a high trust culture. And he was this way before we did anything with him. He, he, um, what they’ve done at populous group is an amazing story. It aligns with what we do. I’m privileged have done some things, but they, they, they, um, they get this work. So I wanna tell you just a, a brief bit he’s the co-founder of and CEO populous group. He’s one, one of the fastest growing HR services companies in the United States, annual revenue now over 600 billion and many fortune 100 companies. In fact, where we met, I think I was speaking at a fortune one, uh, hundred deal. Uh, he’s a proud bar army veteran author of the bestselling leadership book. The gift of struggle. He serves our national community organization, board, serving kids and veterans passionate storyteller. He’s an amazing family, man. Please help me welcome Mr. Bobby Herrera.

David Horsager:
So Bobby, uh, we’ve become friends and I’ve gotten to see some of what you’re doing, but this is, this is unique. Tell, tell us a little bit about this, uh, this video, what we just saw and then we’ll go from there.

Bobby Herrera:
Well, obviously love the mountains. Um, so I filmed this documentary style. This was a trailer, uh, in 2020, I took my two boys. Uh, it’s an annual trip that I hand select six climbers, six or seven climbers in my community. I call my company a community, uh, and I hand select six from across the country. And I take them on this annual Trek from where you all saw at start up to camp mu the highest point you can go before the actual technical summit. It’s my favorite mountain. It’s part of a bigger mountain climbing theme that I have embedded into my whole culture. Uh, I’ve tied everything into that theme from the language to the everybody

David Horsager:
Geter. When they join

Bobby Herrera:
First day, day one, everybody gets one of these common

David Horsager:
Language in a company

Bobby Herrera:
Teer on day one. We give them this, uh, to symbolize it. They’re, uh, part of something bigger than themselves. They’re for one another. And so we expect them to take it to meetings, uh, any event that they go to this carer used to be with ’em, uh, and it connects to the bigger story. And, uh, I couldn’t take anybody that year. So instead I filmed it and I took the whole community and, uh, this just, they packed with lessons and it’s a lot of fun.

David Horsager:
I, um, you, we I’ve read the book. Great, powerful, inspiring book, but you tell a story kind of, that was an epiphany. I just wanna just touch on that kinda where it’s some of where this started, some of how you think about running a company started, uh, can you just touch on the school bus?

Bobby Herrera:
Yeah, so, um, uh, when I was 17, uh, my brother ed and I, we were on a return trip home from a basketball game and we were excited. It was a big win and along the way, the team stops for dinner and everybody unloads off the bus except for me and my brother ed. Well, at that point, my family’s story, I’m one of 13 kids. I’m number 11. And, uh, I still eat with my elbows on the table and, uh, we were very accustomed to staying back on that bus. And as a team unloaded this gentleman steps on board, the bus and my brother and I were sitting towards the back and he’s walking towards us and he RAs me a little bit, cuz it outskirt me that night. And then he said something to me that I I’ll always remember. He said, Bobby, it would make me very happy.

Bobby Herrera:
If you would allow me to buy you boys dinner, nobody else has to know. All you have to do to thank me is do the same thing for another great kid, just like you in the future. And I’ll never, ever forget how I felt in that moment. I had this wave attitude come over me that it’s still hard for me to explain. And I remember stepping off the bus that evening and I had no idea what I was gonna do with my life. You know, I had a desire to raise my hand and join the military, which I did a year later. But outside of that, all I wanted was for my future to look different from my past and struggled being the only theme in my story. And uh, but even though I had no idea what I was gonna do after that moment on UI, like I’d somehow some way, figure out a way to create something that would allow me to pay forward. That kind act to other kids who were born on the wrong side of the opportunity by just like me. And that moment just changed how I viewed everything. You know, Gucci said yesterday that a dream start in the heart that hit me right in the heart. And uh, it stuck.

David Horsager:
Thank you. So,

Bobby Herrera:
Um,

David Horsager:
I’ve heard that a lot of times and I’ve still feel it. I remember growing up in one of the poorest counties in Minnesota. Yeah. We had enough food. We grew our own food. Right. And we worked, you know, it had some things that way, but I was thinking of even Lisa and I starting out in a whole lot of different things. But, um, one thing that I’ve been in most impressed by when I think of seeing how you run the company, um, the, the, the whole, the culture, the names, I think there’s some things we can take away. Of course we love it when people drive a culture of the eight pillars, but there’s other things people do. Like you’ve done to really build alignment and connection and building a common language and building an identity. And somebody saying, I, I know I can state the three that I remember from what your work in the book, but you’ve got these three key areas. Let me just let you start out. Let’s start with the first one. You talk about building identity. Mm-hmm what have you done at populous group? What, what do you do there to build an identity?

Bobby Herrera:
Well, you know, what’s interesting about that story is although that story became the invisible force, that drives me, uh, it was all also, it’s also my biggest leadership mistake because I of 10 years, I started my, my, my company in 2002. And I didn’t tell that story until 2012. And yes, I had been, uh, I was a, you know, intense entrepreneur, just trying to make things happen. And I had the, this desire to bring that story to life so I could do what I wanna do with it, but nobody knew. And once I told that story and I I’ll often tell people that that was the beginning of transforming my company into a community, because after I told that story, my company then had a clarity that I’d never given ’em before on the identity that I wanted for the organization, what the real purpose and the mission of it was. And at up to that point, I hadn’t done that. So, you know, without that clarity and you’re, you can’t bring to life what you want for, of the organization, what you want to do with that story that you’re building, cuz in the end, that’s what culture really is. Culture is a story that you’re narrating and everything you, you do and connect to it are symbols and traditions and components of the story that you have to bring to life. And as a leader, you connect that identity together.

David Horsager:
So you start with this identity. You’re you’re number two is you have to have a guide behavior. Mm-hmm maybe even start with what let’s jump here. I’ll jump around a little bit. Sure. Because I know, tell us a little bit more about the symbols. like, what are some of the symbols? What’s the, what’s it like you, like, I’ve done work for Vanguard and they’re all, um, you know, the ship theme and the, you know, that it’s all, um, crew members and that kind of thing. And you have this, not that we all have to come up, you don’t have a lot to come up with these kind of things, but there certain language mm-hmm uh, that can bring people together, can unify around something. If it’s authentic. Tell us a little bit more about some of, some of the language.

Bobby Herrera:
Yeah, well, you know, the, this annual trip that they, everyone just saw a clip to, like, that’s one of my favorite traditions, but I have other traditions throughout the year that compliment the overall climbing theme. So, you know, for example, my version, every September, I give the Sherpa and it’s my version of the Heisman. And I give it to one deserving climber a year that best lived our purpose and our values. And so I will do symbolic things like that, like the carabiner. And we tell them on day one, like you were selected to make our story better. And we then guide ’em that second part guiding behavior. We show them exactly what that means.

David Horsager:
So tell me what what’s, what’s a one expectation. I jumped on the team. I’m a climber now. Yeah. How how’s it different than working at wherever I’m on the populous group team? Mm-hmm , what’s the behavior you expect?

Bobby Herrera:
Well, the three principles that we, that we share with ’em from day one is we expect you to give more than you take. We expect you from the heart and we expect you to go off the beaten path. And we, for the first week, when someone joins our community, they do not do a single job task oriented activity. Their first week is embedded in engulfed into our culture. And we call that our uncommon welcome. And so we, we will give them a very in-depth intentional culture quiz, where they’re literally calling climbers all across the country, learning stories about each other, talking about those different principles. And we have story after story that bring those to life. You know, and Allison shared that, you know, yesterday, like stories, NTA, they inspire us, they give us meaning. And so that whole first week they’re embedded into it. And so we invest up front and given the context that they need. And on the second week when they start, they have so much context around why we do what we do and how we do what we do that their ramp up time to productivity is, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s so quick because we don’t have to then spend time doing it on the fly and they don’t have to guess. Yeah.

David Horsager:
So in this, I think this is interesting. I’m gonna repeat it because I think it’s replicable in your space for culture. So talks about this, this culture ambition, number one, building an identity there’s specific bullet points to that. But if you have not built a very clear, specific identity, it’s gonna be really hard to win it culture. And we talked a lot. That’s a lot of clarity mm-hmm

Bobby Herrera:

David Horsager:
Right, right. Number two is you have to then take it to things that guide behavior. Uh, this is what caribou did with the whole Bama thing. Bama it’s Memor. Oh, we gotta learn all this other stuff we did. Okay. Now, but every 17 year old barista knows. Oh yeah. Be excellent. Not average. Oh. Act with urgency. Okay. I should give ’em the copy quickly. They like it. Okay. Make a connection. Oh yeah. I try to do that. Oh, I anticipate needs. I try to look for, they might wanna nap in with it. They want water with, they they’ve created this, they’ve taken this and they’ve made, uh, this into behaviors, right. Not just because integrity. Isn’t really behavior on its almost it it’s. It’s great. But what, what does that look like? Right. Oh, what this means here and then get us a little more on speaking. A common language. Number three is speaking a common language.

Bobby Herrera:
So speaking of common language should help bring to life the identity and the guiding behavior. Right? So I introduced a climbing theme one because of my passion for the mountains and mountaineering. However, um, the, the word employee just never like, it doesn’t mean anything to me. And so I started reflecting on some of my past journey and you know, I still remember this day, you know what it meant to be a soldier in the military. I still remember. I, I worked for a summer at Disney and there they call their employees, cast members. And I still know exactly what it meant to be a cast member. And so when someone joins our community, I want them to be able to, to understand the essence of what it means to be a climber. And then we give ’em a climber number. So they know exactly where they joined on our climb and we do all our connection points annually around the summit and EV uh, that everything interconnects, you know, we, our one-on-ones are called grips. Uh, and we’ll often say, Hey, how’s your grip. A fundamental of climbing is having a great grip. And so I’ve just interconnected it’s it was just my corny way of helping make it something that’s simple and palatable for people to remember. And you know, it, they, everyone picks up on it very quickly and it creates safety.

David Horsager:
Think about it. If anybody has one que I’m gonna I’m I might take one question here if somebody has a burning one or two. Um, but I think a question I have at least, and I, we talked early in the pandemic Uhhuh and, um, well we talked after that too, but yes, uh, I was saying, and I saw some things challenges in the pandemic for you two. Right. But, uh, for all of us, but you were doing some things and I asked you what what’s working and what are some of the things, something that work

Bobby Herrera:
Yeah. You and I talked about, you know, managing the VUCA. Yep. Um, you know, uh, VUCA is a term that’s, you know, for those of us that have served that it’s an acronym for, you know, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. And one of the things that I learned in the military was when there’s a lot of VUCA, when there’s a lot of chaos, our responsibility as a leader is to slow the game down for everybody. And in simple application terms, all I did throughout the pandemic and all I continue to do is slow the game down to, uh, to edit everything that is non-essential out of everyone’s life and keep it just on the things that we can control and then simplify all the routines that follow, you know, the consistency pillar, you know, uh, I made sure everyone knew when they were gonna hear from me how they were gonna hear from me, how often they were gonna hear from me. And I just embedded all these routines and I’ve just been tailoring the system all along. Like we don’t like surprises unless they’re good surprises. So, uh, that’s really what managing the V is about is editing everything out with the exception of the most essential things that you can control slowing the game down and giving people predictability on the communication.

David Horsager:
I remember one of the things you said, I’m gonna say really quick. So we’re, we were talking about, uh, the VUCA and talking about what you did wherever. Anyway, anyway, that’s at the point, um, sorry. Mm-hmm um, the, but the bottom line is we, I, we noticed something it’s like a lot of people in, in chaos, they, uh, they start focused on everything they cannot control. Yeah. And we came down to the, the question of, okay, okay. We can do all these things, but what can control? What, what can I control? And, and that, that turns out there’s a lot more we can control than we ever thought. Right. See what happened in many when they actually pause, thought about what they could control mm-hmm um, anything else in the culture or

Bobby Herrera:
Pandemic? Yeah. You know, and I think from a culture perspective, when everybody went virtual, like I had to zoom out and I had to revisit every team that we did, like, uh, for example, like I couldn’t take anyone to this annual hike. So I then started revisiting all the routines and all the symbols that we do. And just simply started asking myself, okay, what tweaks do I need to make? How am I gonna do it differently to bring to life the essence? So for example, in 2020, I have taken six people. I filmed a documentary style and I took the whole community. Right. And so, uh, there, my observation has been, yeah, it’s not gonna work out the way that you want it to the way that it has been, but then if you focus on, okay, well, what can I do? What’s the best I can do and how can I tweak it to make the same type of impact act that I wanna make? Because my responsibility to advance the culture is to keep the narrative of the story going mm-hmm . And if I don’t find, if I don’t do those things repeatedly over and over and over again, the culture’s gonna decline.

David Horsager:
That’s the work of it. Anybody have a key question on culture for Mr. Herra culture or, um, you have to see their company, what they do, anybody. Yes. Dr. I

Bobby Herrera:
That don’t. How do you deal with get the culture? Uh, that’s a great question. Question.

David Horsager:
And repeat, you wanna repeat

Bobby Herrera:
It? Yeah. So the question was, how do I deal with the naysayers, right? The people that either, for some reason or another, just don’t connect with it. Right. Um, so I, I mentioned this to someone earlier today, right? I believe three areas that organizations unintentionally overlook, uh, when it comes to building culture is, uh, they in their hiring, in their onboarding and in their, if instead they focused on selection, welcoming and onboarding and then, uh, development. Right? So the question there is, okay, well, that’s, those are just different words, but actually they’re not right. So the selection piece, so to, I’m gonna get to the heart of your question here in a second. What have happens before then is selection versus hiring. There’s a real simple difference. There a hiring is, is off the front of the resume. We symbolically anytime that we sit across a table for someone to see if they’re gonna be a good fit for our community, we flip over the resume and we don’t ask, ’em a single question about their resume until the third interview.

Bobby Herrera:
I wanna know their life story. I wanna know what they believe. I wanna know what makes ’em tick. I wanna know what gives ’em energy. I wanna know who they are. I wanna know all about their identity. And so they go through that selection process, which is four. They meet with four different people. And the first two are all about the back, the resume. The second, the second, the last two are on the front. So we align that competency and that character. And then on the welcome that culture quiz that I mentioned, right? Most organizations, they will invite someone into their company. And after the first day after they fill out all the, uh, forms and so forth, they sit ’em right now next to somebody and they start job shadowing. And they have no idea about the purpose of the organization. They have no idea about the, the culture code, the values, the behavior models, and so forth. We take that off the table. And so in that first week, like we try to actually scare them like your culture, if you’re doing it right, it should repel some people. And that’s a good thing. Like you should not try to build a culture that is a one size fits all for everybody.

Bobby Herrera:
So we actually try to invite them to make themselves available to the marketplace after that first week. And after that, if they still aren’t, uh, aligning to our principles, we’ll remind them, we’ll correct them. But we have a saying, we call it, choose a trend. When we have to address a colds, uh, value more than twice it’s time for us to, uh, uh, invite more joy into their life and make them available to the marketplace. That’s a nicer way to say. Yes.

David Horsager:
I’m um, just so grateful to know you and I’ve learned I’ve gotten better because of being around you. And I’m grateful for that. And you’re an example to many,

Kent Svenson:
That’s it for this week’s episode, be sure to check out trusted leader, show.com for all the links and information on anything mentioned in today’s episode. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on apple podcasts. This is a great way to help support the show and to help other people to discover it. But that’s it for this week’s episode. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 79: Chuck Runyon on Why Great Teams Run On Trust

In this episode, David sits down with Chuck Runyon, CEO and Co-founder of Self Esteem Brands, to discuss why great teams run on trust.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Chuck’s Bio:
As the CEO and Co-founder of Self Esteem Brands—parent company to Anytime Fitness, Waxing the City, The Bar Method, Basecamp Fitness, and Stronger U—Chuck Runyon leads the largest franchise fitness operating company in the world with a growing global portfolio of brands that provides fitness, nutrition and wellness services that help millions of people worldwide improve their health and wellbeing.

Runyon revolutionized the fitness industry in 2002, when he and David Mortensen co-founded Anytime Fitness. Today, with 5,000 franchise locations on all seven continents—more than half outside the U.S. in more than 30 countries—Anytime Fitness is the #1 fitness franchise in the world. Chuck and Dave were named the “2020 Entrepreneurs of the Year” by the International Franchise Association (IFA).

Chuck is also a vocal advocate and lobbyist for fitness industry, which faced permanent closure rates in 2020 five times higher than the restaurant industry. He ensured the brands were leading voices through IHRSA, Fitness Industry Council of Canada, Community Gyms Coalition and more for standard health club safety and sanitation protocols as well as state, provincial and federal stimulus relief for owners.

Central to Chuck’s leadership philosophy is the concept of ROEI – the return on emotional investment. He’s the co-author of Love Work: Inspire a high-performing work culture at the center of People, Purpose, Profits and Play®. He’s chair of the Runyon Family Foundation, as well as a member of the HeartFirst Charitable Foundation and the Hill Murray Foundation Board.

Chuck’s Links:
Website: https://www.sebrands.com/
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon, Dave Mortensen, and Marc Conklin: https://amzn.to/3kcBo6A
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chuckrunyon/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/chuckrunyon?lang=en
Twitter (SEBrands): https://twitter.com/sebrands
Instagram (Anytime Fitness): https://www.instagram.com/anytimefitness/?hl=en
Twitter (Anytime Fitness): https://twitter.com/AnytimeFitness?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckrunyon
LinkedIn (SEBrands): https://www.linkedin.com/company/self-esteem-brands
LinkedIn (Anytime Fitness): https://www.linkedin.com/company/anytime-fitness

Key Quotes
1. “I love this great resignation, this opportunity where employees have more leverage than ever before.”
2. “We should be emotionally invested in the work that we do.”
3. “The best culture wins.”
4. “We really look at this as a partnership.”
5. “We try to be a company of leaders.”
6. “Franchisee feedback is a hallmark of successful franchise systems.”
7. “Our entire job is about listening and then making those adaptations to make sure the brand is thriving.”
8. “It always travels back to purpose.”
9. “Fitness is found in a health club. Health is found everywhere else.”
10. “We’re trying to democratize pro and health coaching.”
11. “Don’t live to work. Work to live.”
12. “Health is a power source. It’s either power giving source or power draining source.”
13. “Great teams run on trust.”
14. “Without trust you cannot have high performance.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon, Dave Mortensen, and Marc Conklin: https://amzn.to/3kcBo6A

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager:
Welcome to the trusted leader show. It’s David Horsager. I have a special guest. And let me tell you a little about him. First. He is the CEO and count co-founder of self esteem brands. That’s a parent company of anytime fitness, waxing the city, the bar, a base camp, fitness and stronger. You. Let me tell you about anytime quick, by the way, it’s, uh, for the seventh year in a row, anytime is the world’s fastest growing fitness club. They have, uh, revolutionized the fitness industry in 2002. They, the co-founders have become good friends of mine. Uh, he is also the author of the book. Love work. We’re gonna talk about that and leading a company through the pandemic and change and having massive growth grew to, I think, uh, 5,000 franchise locations faster than anybody’s ever done it even subway. So, uh, thanks for being on the show. Chuck Runyon

Chuck Runyon:
David it’s an honor to be here. Thanks. I, I can’t wait to talk about culture, employees, leadership, all that stuff. I love it.

David Horsager:
Well, it’s, it’s a treat. Let’s go back for a moment. I, we, we want to get into, and I think we do it faster than many podcasts takeaways and usable items and inspiration, but we, we do need to set it up here. You and Dave Mortenson started this, uh, way in kind of humble beginnings. Give us, give us just some insight into what that was like.

Chuck Runyon:
Yeah. So remember this is May, 2002. When we opened up our first, anytime fitness, we’re coming up here on our 20 year anniversary. And this is, you know, although the internet was there. I mean, this is the very first iPod came out. So if you think about technology and how pervasive it is today, it wasn’t, we didn’t have Facebook or smart phones or Instagram. So in completely different world. Um, and the technology we launched with was very, you know, revolutionary to the fitness industry, giving people 24 7 access to any club in the world. You know, at the time we didn’t have many, but it continued to grow. And so we were ahead of our time, um, the thought of like giving people access to up that sometimes wasn’t staffed. A lot of people didn’t think would work. Thankfully we had the courage to just continue on and we didn’t have much experience in franchising. So Dave and I are just constant lifelong learners and we’re okay to make mistakes. We know we don’t know everything. And, uh, here we are, you know, just trying to get better. One club, one franchisee, one community at a time. And we still think that way, you know, to us, it’s a balance of micro with macro. And, uh, here we are 5,000 locations and seven continents and still seven

David Horsager:
Continents. That’s right. Even Antarctica.

Chuck Runyon:
Yes, we are the, we are the first franchise brand history on all seven continents and the December right before COVID we were there planting the flag for time fitness and who would’ve known that, you know, two and a half months later, the entire world shut down. You know, it’s crazy.

David Horsager:
It’s just crazy. And yet, I mean, you talk about one of the industries, uh, you know, one of my best friends is CEO of a travel company that only specializes in group international airfare. I mean, you talk about a hit that was taken, but you know, other than that, and, and we can argue, everybody’s had it hard, no doubt about it, our healthcare friends, our emergency, our teachers. But I mean, the fitness industry took a wall up in as far as financially. Tell us a little bit about that at

Chuck Runyon:
Yeah, we were the first industry to close and the last to reopen and remember, 70% of the fitness industry are small business owners. Our global network is really a reflection of thousands of small business owners and, and the pandemic really hit small business owners, hard. They just don’t have the balance sheet or liquidity to, to necessarily survive something like this. So it has never, in 20 years, has our work been more important to support our franchise owners, helping them with royalty relief, rent, reductions, you know, making sure they can take advantage of every federal and state relief program out there. And quite frankly, providing the emotional support to get through this. So I’ve never been more proud of our team and how we’ve selflessly, uh, supported our owners through this. Um, we lost, you know, a lot less, uh, as a percentage of clubs than the industry did. And, you know, I, I really give credit to our team and the, the strength of this brand. And now that we’re on the other side of it, we’re just doing our best to help them bounce back quickly.

David Horsager:
And you’re almost at a hundred percent back.

Chuck Runyon:
Yes, we are. 99%. We were a hundred percent for about a two weeks. And then Hong Kong just shut down again. So we’re close. Uh, we we’ll get there soon.

David Horsager:
So, you know, we’re gonna jump around and that’s okay. It’s the way we do things, but I just want to go where I, my audience wants to go and they wanna listen and hear from you. But if we think about this, you know, some people call the great resignation. Certainly employees have more power than they’ve had in a long time, maybe ever in many ways, I know over at any time and in, uh, self-esteem brands, you have an employee value proposition, and then you have the employer value proposition. Of course we can think of the employer. What’s what are you gonna bring to the table? But the employee value proposition of what is it what’s gonna make unique? How am I gonna get the best talent? How am I gonna keep the best talent? What are are you doing? And how are you thinking about that these days?

Chuck Runyon:
Yeah, that’s a great question. And very top of mind for us right now, cause we are, we are modifying our employee value proposition as we get people back to work and think about this new hybrid environment. And, you know, to be clear, I actually love this, what I would call great resignation, this opportunity where employees have more leverage than ever before, because now, or you don’t have to work at a job. You don’t love. I mean, you, you are now for, for most, you know, knowledge workers. They can work anywhere for any company. They can pick a professional industry they’re curious about or passionate about, and they can go to work. And so I love that because I just think as an individual, you know, we devote half our waking hours to work. We should really like enjoy. We should be emotionally invested it in the work that we do.

Chuck Runyon:
And so I want people who love their work, and there’s no reason now to drive to a job that you don’t enjoy. So for an employee perspective, I love it for an employer. Look, we can now hire people from anywhere in the world too. And so now it’s, it’s no longer restricted to like our, you know, a commute time of say 45 minutes. You know, we can hire people from a different country. We can hire people from a different states. So look, it’s equal playing field and the best culture wins. So I’m quite confident in what, how we attract and retain our team with a high profile Orman’s culture with not just your traditional benefits, but a, a, a culture that really cares about their personal and professional growth. We’ve always for a long time invested in the whole self development of our team. And so we want our people getting healthier. We want them growing. We want them taking guitar lessons or doing marathons, or, you know, having a balanced life and making sure they’re coaching in little league with their kids. These are things we talk about. These are values. We care about when they are here. We want them to unlock their potential and we put money and time behind that. So I, you know, you know, go ahead. Yeah,

David Horsager:
You did that before. A lot of people did. And by the way, before all this I’ve been to your offices, I gotta say some of the best corporate offices and the nicest and the coolest. And of course there’s the fitness facility, but there’s a whole lot more, and it is a, just a beautiful, uh, place to work and to be together. Um, you know, we’re, we’re seeing some of the data where not everything virtual is it went up for a little bit, but actually there is some very, the data shows being together in person connecting, actually seeing each other still does matter in, in many ways. But what are the, some of the unique things you do to create this high trust, motivated culture? Um, what have you been doing? How are you, because we can say, I mean, the employees, I, I can hear some CEOs listening, saying, yeah, the employees have all the power now. They want to get paid more. I can’t pay that much more. They want to have, you know, free, uh, you know, a spread SOS at every break. I, I can’t do. I’m just trying to make this company work. They want to have every possible benefit that anybody has and it’s, it’s hard to do. So what are you doing that others could do to, to really create a, um, high performing culture?

Chuck Runyon:
Well, as you know, our four PS, what, what we center our culture on is what we call people, purpose, profits, and play, and think about those four components. I mean, we’re investing in our team. As I mentioned, that whole self development, helping them unlock their potential as both an individual, as well as a professional, um, purpose. We talk a lot about making sure they have a direct line of sight to how we impact people around the world. And again, our people are passionate about that. They care about improving lives, you know, profits, high performance. People want to be able to move the needle on metrics. They want autonomy. They want to know they’re impacting the company in, in many ways, and then play, you know, Dave and I are very intentional about making sure that our company feels that sense of play competitiveness, creativity, collaboration.

Chuck Runyon:
And so we are intentional about bringing those four P’s to life in our day to day environment with our team, whether we’re on zoom or whether we are in the office. And I think if we bring those four together, those are the four ingredients of a high performance team. And now we’re not perfect. You know, we’re not for everybody, but we also make no apologies for our culture and what we believe in and people either fit into that or they don’t. Um, and, uh, you know, again, we want to have fair pay will never be the highest we want to have great benefits, but you know, if you look at our full holistic and employee value prop, we are emotionally and physically and mentally engaging them at a deeper level than our competitors.

David Horsager:
So let’s, let’s go a little bit deeper on that, by the way, you, everybody can read more. I think I was one of the endorsers on the book. I loved it. Uh, love, work, love work, and it talks all about those four P’s and what you were doing way before the pandemic, which is why you’re bouncing back so fast, I think, but let’s talk about those specifically. Okay. We can say people, we, we can say probably we can say we’re into the individual and we allow them to play guitar lessons, but then when, when it’s time to work, it’s like, Hey, get off your guitar. We need this thing done. So what, what, what do we action let’s take and, and give me an actionable, under a couple of those of what do you do to actually show you focus on the people?

Chuck Runyon:
Well, you know, I just didn’t exercise where I ask every single employee in our organization to email me directly. We put together a survey is to, we, we have four pillars of work here, like, uh, you know, where we’re, we’re focused on. And I wanted to know the metrics they are prioritized on. And I wanted to know a very human story on the outcome of their work. And I gotta tell you, I loved it. It was an incredible exercise. I read hundred, I read every single employee response. And so it’s, we have an opportunity to prioritize more and make sure people have visibility to their business metrics and human impact. But I was quite proud of the business they were describing. And so, you know, we really look at this as a partnership. It’s like, how do they want to grow? How see the company improving, you know, at the end of the day, people just want to like weigh in with their point of view and their experience.

Chuck Runyon:
They want to know that they’re shaping this company and shaping the culture. So it’s very collaborative. You know, we, we kinda ask them, where can we help you grow? Where do you think you can help the company? So for us, you know, we try to be a company of leaders and, you know, we’re all we, he is asking people to weigh in to like, um, not be told what to do, but tell us what you think, ask why, I mean, shape it with us. And so I just think when people feel a part of that, they actually just feel part of the company. They, they feel part of the mission

David Horsager:
When they feel listened to and they get to be a part of the change. I think this is, you know, another one of our, uh, for Ren companies here in Minnesota, especially when they were number two to tar, uh, to Starbucks. One of the unique things about caribou coffee is they really were, and they still are coming back to it. I love what John butchers doing there right now, uh, as, as CEO of caribou. But they, uh, they really had a way a pathway for a frontline almost minimum way. J coffee barista, listen, listening to them. What do they think? That’s why if you have all the cool phrases that everybody’s ripped off, thanks a latte and all those kind of things. A lot of those great ideas came from the front line barista. Yep. It was 25 years old or 17 years old because they had a pathway, many, many companies, all their gold.

David Horsager:
They’re not listening to their gold on the front line. And so getting feedback because, and what, what does that do? It engages them because, Hey, look, I matter, I, that look at that, that thinks a lot. They think that’s on every napkin, look at that idea that I had at 17 years old or whatever it is. Right. So, um, very cool. What’s what’s is there just to drill deeper, any feedback you’ve taken from somebody out in the field that now is a part of the organization, it’s part of the culture, because you were listening to people, maybe one of your fitness, you know, one of, one of the, any times in Germany or whatever.

Chuck Runyon:
Oh, you know, franchisee feedback is a hallmark of successful franchise systems. And so we are constantly getting a feedback loop of, you know, how consumers are different. What we can do with the digital experience operational practices needed, uh, you know, reports needed. I mean, it’s, it’s, uh, our job is we have a flood of information coming at us from various stakeholders. We just need to help counter prioritize that. So again, we are, the feedback is so valuable, but we allow, because we’re in so many different countries, we allow this, what we call glocal like a global brand that has been localized. And so it’s our job to listen to franchise owners, our partners, and find out like, what modifications do we need to make to the brand in terms of colors and design and offering and services to now make it like valuable to the consumers. And so I think our entire job is about listening and then making those adaptations to, you know, make sure the brand is thriving in, in that marketplace. So, you know, if you visit at anytime fitness in Japan, you’ll know it’s at time fitness, but you’ll see some changes and color schemes or club design that are different than here.

David Horsager:
That’s funny. I think of that for even my first book trust edge, when it got put into J uh, Chinese, you know, you know, red, our color scheme stands for death in, in China. So it’s, uh, or Korea. So it’s, it’s, it’s blue. They had to change a whole color scheme to make it relevant there. Like, what does this mean there? So we had to think about that kind of thing. You know, one of the ways I see that you show, uh, or people show their commitment to you, and this is pretty cool. I wanna hear the story behind it. I I’ve been to your headquarters. Of course I’ve been a, uh, an anytime member. Um, but, uh, you know, what about that tattoo?

Chuck Runyon:
Yeah, we are the, I think the only corporate headquarters in the world that I know of that as a full time tattoo room now at our first annual conference in 2005, one of our franchise owners, this is in downtown St. Paul, Minnesota wanted to get the running man tattoo on his shoulder and he went and did it. And I’m like, dude, like you literally bleed purple. And ever since then, it’s gone viral within our network. And we have thousands of people, employees, members, franchisees, vendors, who’ve gotten, they personalize the, any time fitness running man tattoo on their skin. And now at our annual conferences and training events, we have like five tattoo artists giving tattoos and, and you know what it goes back to. It’s always like a very deep purpose. It’s never about, Hey, because we have more treadmills. We’re open 24 hours. It’s actually never, even because I made so much money with time fitness. It’s about life change. Like I change my life or I help someone change their life. It always trails back to purpose.

David Horsager:
The story is amazing. And I think that’s one of the things you notice when you come into your headquarters is I, Dave took me around for the first time, your co-founder and president. And just story after story of this was the change that happened to ask person. This was that person that got tattooed here. That’s the story. This is the story behind this. So, um, I think

Chuck Runyon:
I get goosebumps here almost every day, and I bet you, I get like a lump in my throat, like at least once a, a week or twice a week because of the stories that are going on in this network. It’s, it’s unbelievable.

David Horsager:
Well, what I love about you guys too, is you live it out. You both look and are fit and, and care about it. And so you work hard and you do all these things. I, I know lots of people that are even, even, uh, C-suite folks of health organizations that don’t look any like you’d want to be. Right. Um, so you, you guys seek to live that out on stage and off stage, go backwards for a moment with me because, you know, people don’t know it because there’s so many other gyms that do 24 hour now, and it caught on so big, but you, you were back in these early days, you had this kind of wacky idea, uh, you know, how did that even come to be?

Chuck Runyon:
We were working at, you know, Dave and I worked at larger clubs. We did consulting work. We actually owned some big clubs that we were taking over. And we realized the pain points, which is, you know, we had 40, 50,000 square foot clubs that were being underutilized. We, we understood the staffing pain points and we’re like, how do we allow members like to come in wherever they want and not have staffing? So quite honestly, we were trying to solve a problem of payroll and, and access for our members. And that’s why we came up with the idea for anytime fitness. I was traveling to a club we were working with down in Oklahoma and we were promoting it at the time and they were giving away like a hardware key, like a little key. And so I remember calling Dave and my partner at the time saying, guys, I like, this is the difference maker. Like, imagine if we could operationalize this scale, it, uh, with franchising. And that’s really how it started. And that conversation happened back in 2001. And then we just, you know, opened up our first one in 2002. And here we are.

David Horsager:
And how many have copied you?

Chuck Runyon:
Uh, a lot, but you know what, um, what we’ve done a better job is, is, you know, our franchisees are so passionate about their communities. We continue to layer on efficient services that are repeatable, and then we harness the passion they have for their people in their communities and their, in their job. And we just do that better than most.

David Horsager:
What about virtual? You guys, you pivoted, and I even saw a recent video about how you, you you’re even outta time coaching from coaching people in their own home. Right? Tell, tell me about that.

Chuck Runyon:
Yeah. So you mentioned fitness earlier. I mean, fitness is found in a health club. Health is found everywhere else. And so we’re really trying to be more holistic in our health services. We’re offering nutrition with the acquisition stronger. You, we have fitness, we have recovery. And so, you know, people are picking up their mobile phone now sixty, seventy, eighty times a day. It’s our job now is to help them live healthier behaviors, to get that recovery, get that sleep, eat better, move better outside the club. And so what I love about technology is we can be anytime, anywhere, anyone, and not just a bricks and mortar, but we can actually provide better services to our members to help them live a healthier life. And I, I love that opportunity.

David Horsager:
And are there some, is there a product now where you, you might not even go to the club, but you get a coach on eating and that kind of thing. Just tell me quick

Chuck Runyon:
About that. Cause

David Horsager:
That’s very innovative.

Chuck Runyon:
I, I look, we’re trying to what we say, democratize pro health coaching, you know, right now in, in, in medicine, you know, they’re either delaying, say in knee surgery or back surgery until someone loses weight, or they’re saying, look your three months from now, but you gotta go lose weight before we do that surgery. Where does that person go? And so we, we wanna offer some health coaching for people to like be preventative, you know, help with nutrition, help with fitness, just help live a healthier life. So you’re a hundred percent. I, I think your opportunity in the future is gonna be more about digital coaching and less reliant than ours and mortar experience.

David Horsager:
I wish I knew who I could quote. I, I read this just yesterday or this morning in a book I’m reading. And they quoted somebody and said, basically you’ve got a, uh, four rubber balls or excuse me, one, uh, one rubber ball in life and four glass balls. And your rubber ball is work. If you drop it once a, in a while, actually it’ll bounce back. But if you drop the glass ball of health, spiritual family, uh, or something else emotional or something like that, if you, you, it’s scarred, it’s scar, you drop your health one that’s scar. That’s gonna leave some damage. And those are all glass balls. And yet we often put most of our end energy and everything else into the work ball that would bounce back. In fact,

Chuck Runyon:
We tell our team here, um, don’t live to work, work, to live and same thing with your health. I mean, you, your health is just really it. Health is a power source. It’s either power giving source for power draining source. And at the end of the day, let, let it be a power giving source to, to, you know, fuel of your life. If you’re not, it’s draining from your life. So at the end of the day, you can’t have it either way. You’re not, you’re not just staying still. You’ve gotta give power giving.

David Horsager:
Well, as we, as we land the plane soon, I want to get to you personally. But before we do, I have one more question on the company. How, what are some of the ways, and we didn’t get talk about this much ahead of time, but I know you’ve done some things there just coming from first full circle around the company. What are some other things that leaders could do to attract and maintain people that are specific, uh, in this new world that we live in? How can we better attract and retain employees?

Chuck Runyon:
Um, you know, we are designing, as I mentioned, we are gonna be hybrid. You know, we want to make sure prior to the pandemic, we had unlimited personal time off. Um, we are actually going to go to no Fridays in, uh, the summer. So Memorial day through September, you know, you’re not expected to be on email. You’re not expected to work. Fridays are off. And, you know, especially being here in Minnesota, we know like, you know, to enjoy summer and enjoy time with your kids during the summer break is important. So we’re just recognizing that, you know, it’s not just pay our employees need, they need some time off. They need some forced balance. They need some guardrails or on like when they like, when you’re off for the weekend, you’re off for the weekend. I mean, at the end of the day, we don’t expect you to respond an email Saturday and Sunday.

Chuck Runyon:
So, you know, what we’re saying is, look, we expect high performance outta you, but we don’t own your Saturdays and Sundays. And so what I think people want is they want purposeful work. They wanna be paired, uh, uh, paid fairly, but they also wanna like optimize both home life and their, their business life. And so we’re trying to help ’em do that. Cuz otherwise if we’re, if we constantly encroach on their life seven days a week, they’re gonna be burnt out and they’re gonna get resentful. So we, we’re almost forcing them to say, look, do not engage with work during these days of the week.

David Horsager:
Hmm. Amazing. Powerful. Well, let’s go to purse, Chuck. You know, what I’ve noticed about great leaders is they have some habits themselves that keep them healthy and it might be fitness. It might be spiritual. It might be family, but what are some of your habits that, I mean, at least we say around here all the time, if you’re gonna lead others, you gotta work at leading yourself and totally imperfectly. But how are you leading yourself? What are some of your daily routines that keep you healthy? Uh, in some of those core ways?

Chuck Runyon:
Well, you know, my glass balls, if I think about how, you know, if we think about ourselves as like an operating system, like what keeps our algorithms right? Working at high level, first of all, I’m a, I’m a seven hours a night sleep guy. I’ll take eight, you know, but at the end of the day I need, I need seven hours of sleep consistently. I need to work out almost every day and it’s gotta be a decent intensity. Right. And those two things manage my mood, my energy, my stress, it, mental acuity. I mean sleep and, and physical fitness are linked directly to mental acuity. So there’s no way, and I’m not that smart in the first place. So I need all the help I can get. Right. So those two things are big. I I’m a bit of an ambivert, which means I need a little bit of alone time.

Chuck Runyon:
I need to close my office door and I need time to read, write, or just think, um, I, you know, and I to recharge, I don’t, I don’t charge up around people. I need to charge up alone. And then it’s, it’s about, uh, you know, the people I work with, you know, as a leader, remember we get to draft and select our own team. So hopefully I like really enjoy these people. And then I’m invigorated by our work cuz everything we do helps people. So now in a mix of that throughout the week, I’m with family, I’m with friends, um, you know, I’m doing things on my hobbies. I’m doing things that I enjoy, but without a doubt, what are a couple hobbies? What’s that?

David Horsager:
What are a couple hobbies,

Chuck Runyon:
Uh, tequila drinking that helps too. Um, you and Dave, absolutely. Right. You know, I, as, uh, as I said, I’m a lifelong Minnesota. I have a cabin in Northern Minnesota. I still get up there 30 to 45 days, uh, a week. In fact I’m going there this weekend. I love it in the winter. I love it this summer. So to me, cabin is a massive opportunity to like recharge and get out in nature and get that sunshine and be on a boat. So I love the cabin. I love golf. And then, uh, you know, just working out, those are probably the three things I do the most.

David Horsager:
What’s your workout? What, what’s your common workout? You go in, what do you do? A normal day of workout and Chuck.

Chuck Runyon:
So one of our, one of our brands is base camp fitness. It’s a 35 minute hit, high intensity and herbal training. I love that thing cuz I can shut my, like my brain shuts off. I’m not checking my phone and I’m just going after it cuz it’s a group led by an instructor and that baby is still, I think the best workout in the industry and it pushes me harder than I push myself. And I need that. And

David Horsager:
Is that, is that one of the ones you can do from anywhere? Is that through video? How does that work? No,

Chuck Runyon:
You can do we have a, it’s a studio experience in a bricks and mortar. We do offer virtual, but, but this is just me now as a consumer, I push myself harder in a group environment, uh, than I do at home and I just, so I just prefer to drive the studio. So to me, that’s number one. And then number two, I go to, uh, anytime fitness and do strength training. As you get older, you gotta watch your decline and, and uh, lean muscle mass. And so it’s important for all of us that every Regener and every age to continue with some strength training. So those are the two big things I do the most often.

David Horsager:
When do you do the quiet time read, write, think like, do you have a consistent time? Like that’s always first thing in the morning. It’s after lunch. It’s

Chuck Runyon:
Always first thing in the morning. Uh, when I wake up a cup of coffee and I get caught up on the world, you know, I’ll read some of the news, I love Twitter for articles. I’ll catch up on things. And then usually right when I get in, I’ll grab my coffee too. Just make sure my day is set. So to me it’s that morning time, which really sets me up for a good day.

David Horsager:
Hmm. Love it. What are you learning now? What’s the what’s what’s what’s the big, what are you curious about right now?

Chuck Runyon:
Uh, everything digital. Um, and so we are trying to be, you know, we were born in 2002, right? So not really a digital native company. And so we’re an analog company trying to become, we’re trying to think digital first. So if you think about our future, based on digital engagement and data, you know, we, we call ourselves like rich dad, poor dad, right? Digital analytics and data. And so at the end of the day, I’m trying to learn as much as I can to help us lean first with digital.

David Horsager:
What, what does se brands look like in five years?

Chuck Runyon:
That’s a great question. Uh, we will have, uh, you know, 6,000 locations around the world and we will have far deeper engagement regularly with our consumers around the world in a digital way. And so those services will allow them to see better behaviors and outcomes. And where I want to get two is I want to be consumer health outcome first. So at the end of the day, let’s prove it. I mean, if you join one of our brands, we are gonna show you that you’re living healthier behaviors and we’re gonna quantify your outcome and we’re gonna collect that data to help you live a healthier life and coach you and nudge you along the way.

David Horsager:
Love it. Well, you got an amazing family. We both, both have four kids. You got an amazing wife. Tell me what you, what do you do to keep that home front strong?

Chuck Runyon:
You know, my kids are in age where they’re 15 to 23 years of age. Um, they are very active. They are very busy. Uh they’re in academics. And so at the end of it, you know, you just want to make sure you’re engaging with them. Um, I’m trying to attend all their games. Um, my son just opened up one of our base camp Fitnesses. He’s a franchisee within our, our network. Again, he chose to do that. I did not push him and my daughter’s studying abroad. So it’s just a wonderful time in life that they are going through. And we’re just trying to like enjoy the moment. You know, it’s only a few, my son, who’s 15, it’s only a few more years between they’re gonna be adults and going on. So we’re just trying to soak in all those little opportunities you have to like, they’re still kids.

David Horsager:
Yeah. And you got a daughter that needs to play, play basketball. Is it tonight for,

Chuck Runyon:
At the end of the basketball season, second finals, a huge game. And she’s having all wonderful season. It’s been, that’s been one of the joys of parenthood is coaching and watching my kids play sports

David Horsager:
Really fun. Very cool. Hey, one last piece of advice or recommendation of a book or, or, uh, resource for, uh, for those listening today.

Chuck Runyon:
Well, I’m not, uh, kissing up here. I love the work you’ve done. We have a, an acronym, which you’ve probably heard from Dave that we use at the corporate office. All of our breadcrumbs of problems come down to cats. And this is an acronym we use here all the time, like communication, alignment or trust. So if somehow we pick a strategy and we’ve got tactics, we put resources and you know, we check in three months later and it’s not going well. We’re like, all right, where did we fail to communicate the objectives? You know, what’s going on here? Where did the breakdown happen? Where are we not aligned strategically or culturally cuz strategically we could be aligned. But culturally, like if we’re dealing with our Japan, masters is a culture issue. Like is it are teams just not getting along like, like align, do we have aligned objectives? And do we agree on those and then trust. So that’s what I think I’m excited to get people back to work here, David cuz like the hybrid environment, zoom is great, but great teams run on trust and you can build that faster in person, all the verbal nonverbal, the caring. And so our cap, our communication.

David Horsager:
Are you listening? Kent? All right. He’ll we’ll just cut that. Maybe he’ll come back. We’re just about done. See if he can pop back in quick to wrap.

Speaker 3:
Yeah, let me see all the way

David Horsager:
I’m

Chuck Runyon:
Not hello. I’m

David Horsager:
Not sure what, Hey, I never had that happen before. Sorry. Yeah, that was good. So, uh, he’ll he, you know, that’s a good thing. He’s got everything he can edit and cut up and everything. So basically he’ll cut all, all that out, but it was really interesting. We got this. Have you said C a T? You said us, but then you just saying our cat. So just

Chuck Runyon:
Start wherever you want. Yeah. Our cat is going to improve as we come back in this hybrid environment. Even if we’re getting people in here two to three times a week, our in-person teamwork, our being a high performance team because of the communication alignment truck is, is gonna continue to be the hallmark of our, of our growth going forward and what we’ve been leaving. So, and I know that is everything about what you teach. And uh, so I’ve been to one of your seminars. There’s one coming up here in April. I’m gonna, we’re gonna send portion to our team there cuz without trust you, you cannot have high performance. And so those three things are what we talk about here all the time.

David Horsager:
Yeah. Well we love what you do and we love your, your pre presence around the world. But your presence here in the twin cities in Minneapolis St Paul you’re, uh, you and your founder are just amazing humans. And uh, we’ve just enjoyed the friendship, but also just the light you’re shining and, and really an example of building a high performing culture on trust, the four PS, which you talk about in the book, everybody that needs to know it, love work is the book. And we’re gonna put that in the show notes. We’ll put all the other inform information in the show notes, how you can find what anytime, what CE brands, what are se brands and, uh, what Chuck’s up to. But where’s the number one place they could find out about you Chuck,

Chuck Runyon:
Uh, either our website self-esteem brand.com, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, any of those

David Horsager:
Self-esteem brands.com and we’ll put all the links to Chuck and uh, all of his social media, other places. This is the last question we ask everybody only one question. This is it, Chuck uhoh. It is, uh, so trust the leader show, who is a leader you trust and why?

Chuck Runyon:
Oh wow. That’s a wonderful question. Um, our, our board member is the CEO of Sephora and he used to work at Starbucks and McDonald or Nike and burger king. And, uh, man, we got lucky with this guy. He is fantastic and him and I talk frequently and I really try Tim admire him. He’s smart as hack.

David Horsager:
All right, thanks so much for that, Chuck, thank you once again for just, uh, this time for sharing with our audience. Thanks. Most of all for being my friend and uh, just the light you’re shining. This has been the trusted leader show until next time. Stay trusted.

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