Ep. 35: Calvin Stovall on The 4 Ways You Or Your Brand Can Become ICONIC

In this episode, David sits down with Calvin Stovall, Chief Experience Officer for ICONIC Presentations, LLC, to discuss the four ways you or your brand can become ICONIC.

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Sponsored by Sourcewell

Calvin’s Bio:
Calvin is the Chief Experience Officer for ICONIC Presentations, LLC. Calvin specializes in delivering high-energy, customized keynote presentations for organizations that desire to reach or maintain ICONIC status. Calvin focuses on delivering the perfect blend of business concepts, story-telling and music themes to bring home an impactful message that touches both the heads and hearts of his audiences.

Armed with more than 25 years of experience in the hospitality and non-profit services industries, Calvin’s audiences learn real-life, hands-on practical customer experience and leadership principles which can be easily applied to business challenges today. Calvin designed a practical and systematic technique called The ICONIC Framework™ to help organizations achieve and maintain iconic status in the eyes of their customers. Calvin is also host of The ICONIC Mindset podcast where he and his co-host John Avola share the secrets behind what it takes to make your business, idea or movement iconic.

The pinnacle of Calvin’s hospitality career was his promotion to vice president of brand marketing with Hilton Worldwide where he was responsible for the marketing and public relations efforts for more than 150 Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels. While under his leadership, Homewood Suites by Hilton was voted best in class by numerous consumer advocacy publications, including Consumer Reports and recognized four times by J.D. Power and Associates for its unwavering commitment to customer service quality.

Calvin’s Links:
Website: https://iconicpresentations.net/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ICONICPresentations/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/calvinstovall/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICONICSPEAKER
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqneK3LGcSAoWGiyyPnpGVw/videos
The Iconic Mindset podcast: https://www.theiconicmindset.com/

Key Quotes:
1. “You can’t have a great customer experience unless you have a great employee experience.”
2. “You have to have some level of differentiation to stand out.”
3. “Everybody has a gift, and everybody has something that they can contribute to the world.”
4. “People emulate and mirror what they see.”
5. “Bring your best self to everything you do.”
6. “You can’t accomplish the vision that you’re trying to accomplish without your team being connected to that.”
7. “Embrace your difference.”
8. “You should have a diverse team because that brings diverse voice, that brings diverse ideas.”
9. “People want truth.”
10. “Focus on what matters most.”
11. “Never become too comfortable or complacent.”
12. “Sometimes success can be a barrier to innovation.”
13. “You have to watch your competitors.”
14. “Focus on the things you can control.”
15. “Sometimes we feel like we have to know everything, but you don’t and you can’t.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Powershift” by Daymond John: https://amzn.to/3qfPVAF
FUBU Clothing: https://fubu.com/
“Change Your World” by John C. Maxwell: https://amzn.to/3cZf9hA

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer i’ve got a special episode today he’s been an executive at Hilton worldwide the Hilton hotels he’s been a.

David Horsager: brand strategist with St jude hospitals he’s been an entrepreneur a CEO is run a nonprofit amazing guy we got some great things to talk about today, thank you for being with us today Calvin stovl.

Calvin Stovall: Oh man day Thank you so much man i’m excited to be here truly honored man, thank you.

David Horsager: it’s great, and you know what.

David Horsager: we’ve been friends and you’re down in North Carolina and moved away from me in Minnesota you’re.

Calvin Stovall: in the workplace, but let me tell you it’s warm today in Minnesota too.

Calvin Stovall: Rare.

David Horsager: let’s get started, I want to get into your framework and some of the things you’re doing and just talk about leadership, a little bit before.

David Horsager: I do work a couple things we need to know about Calvin stovall that that you know what what’s what are you passionate about I know you got a couple kiddos what are a couple things we should know to get started.

Calvin Stovall: Oh awesome man yeah I do have two boys that i’m raising them and they’re they’re actually 11 and one will be ton of 14 next month, so i’m having fun with those guys they’re eating the out of house and home but i’m loving it.

Calvin Stovall: But, but other than that man i’m just i’m just passionate about you know, helping people aspiring people reach that will help them reach their full potential, I am a true blue hospitality person.

Calvin Stovall: And most of my of my career has been in the hospitality industry.

Calvin Stovall: You know started as a desk cart i’ve been to you know, be an executive with Hilton worldwide, so you know i’m truly focused on helping companies, become more customer centric.

Calvin Stovall: on creating memorable customer experiences and things of that nature and really inspiring leadership to you know really motivate and empower people to deliver those memorable experiences, whatever it is that they do, because I think that’s just so essential.

David Horsager: And, but we’re going to come back around at the end of the end of the podcast to you personally and some other thoughts around that how you lead yourself and those kind of things.

David Horsager: But let’s jump in because you created a framework all your experience with everything from Hilton hotels to.

David Horsager: You know your brand strategy work, and all this, I think it’s really fascinating you created a framework for becoming iconic and, in my mind, as you know, if everything we talked about here it’s like becoming trusted right trusted.

David Horsager: trusted friends and what I like about it, and you know we’ve talked about this before, but when you, you talk about even what it is to be iconic.

David Horsager: And it’s not just stand out like some people think it was also being relevant.

David Horsager: And it was having longevity so it’s not just say you know iconic is isn’t just like oh amazing for a moment it’s got longevity and we love that because that says a whole lot about trust, but tell me what you mean by iconic before we jump into the framework.

Calvin Stovall: Okay awesome well when I talk about I kind of got think you kind of just you described it very well Dave is short and simple it’s about relevancy.

Calvin Stovall: And how do you keep yourself relevant, basically, how do you stay in the marketplace and continue to evolve, because things change all the time.

Calvin Stovall: And how do you continually evolve and keep your customers engaged and and also keep your employees engaged because that’s a critical part of become an iconic has got to be both there’s I just i’m a proponent of you can’t.

Calvin Stovall: Have a great customer experience, unless you have a great employee experience and they.

Calvin Stovall: Both work hand in hand.

Calvin Stovall: So that’s that’s what I talk about iconic you got to have all of that.

David Horsager: And if you’re being iconic like you’ve helped a lot of brands become iconic or that’s what you’re you’re helping people and what about what about individuals.

Calvin Stovall: Oh absolutely this this framework, and I know we’ll talk a little bit more about that you know i’ll just say day 2020 was a pivotal year for a lot of people.

Calvin Stovall: A lot of people will still trying to figure things out a lot of people had to pivot really change how they were just a mindset and how they were approaching things.

Calvin Stovall: And so, this framework works for of course it works for brand or an organization, but it also can turn you can turn it inward to help you thrive doing uncertainty so basically doing 2020 a lot of my virtual experiences or not too many live events anyway.

David Horsager: If the virtual ones.

Calvin Stovall: were really about helping people be able to embrace the unknown how they can better pivot and change their mindset and be able to thrive and times when you really didn’t know what to do next, so this framework really helps can kind of help you do that as well.

David Horsager: let’s let’s jump into the framework, this is going to help a lot of people today, and I think whether you’re a leader and what I love about it is you know we’ve got the eight pillars trust the framework for building trust.

David Horsager: This year there’s a lot of overlap here on on how to become iconic it’s really a lot about how do I become trusted.

David Horsager: By being relevant and last thing and a whole lot of what you’re going to talk about so let’s take a look first of all, and over where there’s it’s a four quadrant framework people trusted leaders out there can think about this, how do we.

David Horsager: You know, look give us an overview and then let’s go into them a little bit so people have something they can take away tomorrow morning.

Calvin Stovall: Okay, also the first quadrant Dave is is to be unique and we all know from a brand standpoint, you have to have some level of differentiation.

Calvin Stovall: To stand out, but the terminus inward.

Calvin Stovall: is really about finding your why what is, what is your purpose right and what gets you up and gets you jazzed every single day everybody I believe everybody has a gift.

Calvin Stovall: And everybody has something that can contribute to the world and, but you gotta you gotta figure what that is what that’s what that is.

Calvin Stovall: And, and once you have that that’s the anchor of everything the other three quadrants surround that.

Calvin Stovall: And you know, and then, when you’re talking about a company it’s got to be right it’s got to be about more than just money and profitability right.

Calvin Stovall: it’s got to be a higher purpose, so people can rally around that and it’s the same as a person, you want to you want to have something that you rally around every day what gets you fired up I call them blue diamonds.

Calvin Stovall: And I call them blue diamonds are kind of core values basically your blue diamonds are, and I call them blue diamonds diamonds are rare.

Calvin Stovall: You can only find them three places in the world, India, Australia and I believe in South Africa but i’d like to use blue diamonds, what is your blue diamond.

Calvin Stovall: or diamonds, what makes you different than everybody else, what are your gifts, so that whole be unique is all around that and again that can be a company or looking at yourself.

David Horsager: let’s take an example let’s take this bite by bite I like this, a lot let’s take maybe an example, what would have been when you’re working with let’s say Hilton.

David Horsager: hotels what’s unique you got married he got this you got that.

David Horsager: What was the You know, as we all stay on these hotels what what would have been something that would differentiated them compared to others, and I know you were especially driving results on one big brand book, what would be a.

David Horsager: You know how would, I think about it, if I can anchor to a brand like you worked with what What was their examples there for Hilton.

Calvin Stovall: yeah absolutely what what what what homewood had that was very different in our I guess you would say our Goliath was resonance in.

Calvin Stovall: We were a small brand homeless with small homeless week was a small brand at the time we had like 35.

Calvin Stovall: Residence had had about 200 plus or whatever, so they had the distribution we didn’t have, but what we did have was the highest guest satisfaction ratings in that segment, so we have that and our product was top notch.

David Horsager: What was it what what what made it different Well, first of all.

David Horsager: Why do you think they said.

Calvin Stovall: It was a people, it was experienced that we created for them.

David Horsager: We know how did you create.

David Horsager: People because he got the same people different you know different place how did you what was different about it.

Calvin Stovall: Well, I think that we, we really communicated with them all the time and we talked about what the brand stood for.

Calvin Stovall: And we exemplified that in all of our communications, we talked about it, and everything all of our because every year, we had an annual meeting we talked about, we made sure that the leaders did their huddles with their team.

Calvin Stovall: We inspired all of the leaders themselves to know how how important their engagement was to the employees engagement, so we emulate we understood that people emulate mirror what they see.

Calvin Stovall: So we focused a lot on the importance of leadership, because the product is the product anybody can copy the product, we, I mean you know, even though we were newer brand.

Calvin Stovall: People can put in new carpet, they can paint the walls, they can do all that stuff but we knew if we have the right leadership in place day.

Calvin Stovall: And we knew that those believers were inspiring that team to create those experiences that guests would talk about and tell their friends and relatives and colleagues about we knew we could win.

You can.

David Horsager: You.

David Horsager: Can copy the product you can’t copy the experience.

David Horsager: There it is I love.

Calvin Stovall: It and copy.

David Horsager: And copy the product but.

David Horsager: Not the experience that’s exactly.

David Horsager: And so let’s go to.

David Horsager: let’s get an example personal maybe it’s yours, maybe it’s a leader, you know what’s an example of a real blue diamond for you.

Calvin Stovall: Ah, so that’s a good question a blue diamond for me is really something different, that I like to bring is my passion and and, and that is.

Calvin Stovall: I bring I bring my whole self to any project that I that I do, and so, when I when I talk to clients or anybody that i’m communicating with you will know.

Calvin Stovall: Calvin is in the game i’m in the game.

Calvin Stovall: And you will see it on my face, you will see it in my body actions in my body language and everything and I, and I truly believe people are inspired by people that.

Calvin Stovall: That that that communicate that way and and I just know that Could you imagine Dave you know you’ve been doing this for a long time and i’m sure you’ve seen a lot of speakers, I have to and some stand out from others and typically.

Calvin Stovall: The passion and the fire that comes off the platform inspires people in the audience, and so my my blue diamond for me is spreading that passion and and that’s a core about me hey bring your best self.

Calvin Stovall: To everything you do, and you know, and although some things may not work out you gave it your best shot and That to me is enough.

David Horsager: I love it so your uniqueness, one of them, and I know firsthand.


David Horsager: Your authenticity, by the way, yeah look passionate and it’s not often yeah.

Calvin Stovall: Right yeah yeah.

David Horsager: yeah.

Calvin Stovall: that’s the second quadrant.

David Horsager: yeah all right.

There we go.

Calvin Stovall: The.

Calvin Stovall: Water just be authentic that’s the second quadrant, and that is all about connectedness and what I mean by connectedness and if we’re talking about a company is connectedness around your.

Calvin Stovall: Your your customers understanding their needs, their wants understanding having empathy and their journey and things of that nature and also have a connectedness with your team.

Calvin Stovall: I think you can accomplish the vision that you’re trying to accomplish without your team being connected to that and that is through.

Calvin Stovall: Communication and showing that you truly care about their well being xyz turning inward be authentic is all about being yourself and being comfortable in your own skin, and that is, you know I think sometimes people feel like they have to morph into something else.

Calvin Stovall: To be accepted and I like the idea of of youth being.

Calvin Stovall: Happy being you.

Calvin Stovall: And so you know, like I said everybody’s different and embrace your difference, I know some people heard here all the time hey look you don’t fit in you don’t you’re not a cultural fit.

Calvin Stovall: And, and I don’t like cultural fit because cultural fit means everybody’s got to be the same.

Calvin Stovall: To me, I like cultural add.

Calvin Stovall: Because your experiences your background the things that you bring that are unique to you that that’s your that’s your brand that’s your authenticity.

Calvin Stovall: And, and I think that’s important to bring to any company or anything you know your relationships, because people want to know, I mean people should embrace your differences, and I think that’s important.

David Horsager: How can I tell if a company’s authentic as a brand how what’s that look like.

Calvin Stovall: well.

David Horsager: If everybody meaningful.

Calvin Stovall: To me if I look if I look at all your leadership, and they all look the same.

Calvin Stovall: To me that’s not being authentic because authenticity, to me, is caring about other people’s backgrounds experiences and things of that nature, so you should have a diverse team, because that brings diverse voices that brings diverse ideas and.

Calvin Stovall: Again, that leads to the iconic status because that’s, the only way, you can do that, so you have to some some organizations, you can tell if they have a myopic view of things.

Calvin Stovall: You become bland you become boring, and sometimes you just be stagnant, but if you have authenticity you’re being true to who you are as a brand you’re thinking of other people’s values and and experiences and caring about.

Calvin Stovall: Other people bring to the table to me that’s an authentic company, because it shows that you’re you have really truly branched out and really want to embrace your other people’s things that they bring.

Calvin Stovall: In some organizations, I think probably not not like.

David Horsager: What would you say to this, though, though I hear what you’re saying I agree in many ways, would you say everyone’s a fit.

David Horsager: Can everybody, be a fit of every let’s say culture.

Calvin Stovall: I would say, well, if.

Calvin Stovall: It depends, I would say, you can be if your cultural add you can fit into an organization, but it depends on that the type of organization, we talked about.

Calvin Stovall: So if you go to an organization and you go in for an interview they and you ask the right questions are you sitting there and you’re watching and you never see anybody that looks like you.

Calvin Stovall: Or you see everybody is all white male or you see know females and leadership or you see there, there are cues that you can say well.

Calvin Stovall: If that’s the kind of company you’re looking for if you’re looking for a company that is authentic or is going to embrace differences.

Calvin Stovall: That might not be the company, you want to be, and I think now in the environment that we’re in today, I think, particularly with the younger generation jen’s ease and you know millennials they’re looking for organizations that have that level of authenticity and diversity in it.

Calvin Stovall: So you know i’m not saying you can you it takes time to can you know convert if you if you’re all like looking at the same now that’s going to take time, but I think you have to first of all be aware that there’s an issue here.

Calvin Stovall: And then start making some changes can happen overnight, but you have to be able to embrace that and realize that hey things have changed, maybe we need to change our mindset and a little bit and start doing things a little bit differently.

Calvin Stovall: You know, and that that I believe that’s how you connect to people.

Calvin Stovall: And that’s why the whole connected, this is.

Calvin Stovall: Important because if people see that and they know that their voice is going to be heard and their differences are going to be valued and the experiences that they bring is going to be, you know, help the organization move forward.

Calvin Stovall: I love that that’s why I love right like brainstorming sessions, you should have a diverse group of people in their offering ideas, and I just believe that will help you get to the best solution.

Calvin Stovall: But you know, in a lot of organizations, if you have you know when you’re trying to be innovative, as they say, you know and they’ll have brainstorming sessions, but who’s in those sessions.

Calvin Stovall: yeah top tier people you know senior people that but they rarely will talk to the line level employees and have them be involved because typically that closer to the customer to, and so you know you want to make sure you have their voices as well.

David Horsager: But I guess Lee.

David Horsager: yeah no I just think there’s a lot to go out and go into here, I think.

David Horsager: Yes, it is it’s a it’s a interesting world what we’ve learned is you know I mean, in fact, one of the biggest Harvard Putnam study shows diversity as an example diversity of of many kinds not just colored skin of many kinds.

David Horsager: tends to it tends to pit people against each other.

David Horsager: Unless you increase trust, yes, but you have to increase stress to do it now, how do we increase trust well actually our experiences, do you have to have.

David Horsager: Certain commonalities to get the best out of diversity, so we have to have the same vision let’s say we have the same unified purpose let’s say so.

David Horsager: i’m just thinking about.

David Horsager: You know, so, in fact, that means for us, at least, and we have this you know smaller relatively diverse company of our for our kind.

David Horsager: Night love more always but um that we have to actually to get the best out of diversity, even equity inclusion we actually have to have a sameness that cut some people out that shows they aren’t.

David Horsager: You know if they aren’t about this kind of purpose it’s not a.

Calvin Stovall: Yes.

David Horsager: it’s actually not a color skin thing or a or a.

David Horsager: certain kinds of diversity it’s a.

David Horsager: it’s a what it takes to serve our purpose our clients and our mission well.

David Horsager: yeah it does take some people and that’s nothing to do with skin color.

Calvin Stovall: Right exactly.

David Horsager: What it does.

David Horsager: mean, some people are not the right fit.

Calvin Stovall: Yes, yes, and that is, you are absolutely correct.

Calvin Stovall: Oh, that is so fun and.

David Horsager: I want to get a clue from the expert so.

Calvin Stovall: That is true, and that is true, and that is when you’re in that’s that goes back to the wire that goes back to the why the purpose that’s what everybody has to have that common core value the blues the blue that all that all that has to be common across.

Calvin Stovall: Or you just got wiped.

David Horsager: out on the same bus with our blue diamond folks.

Calvin Stovall: Yes, right you gotta get.

David Horsager: You gotta jump to jump to the third quarter.

David Horsager: that’s being iconic.

David Horsager: be relevant.

David Horsager: yeah.

Calvin Stovall: Go ahead national yes be passionate and you know what that is, that is all about if we talk about a company on leader.

Calvin Stovall: that’s about leading by example leading with vigor and vitality, you know energizing and engaging and empowering and inspiring a team, so you know.

Calvin Stovall: Like I said before, I believe people mirror and emulate what they see, so I think 2020 was such a pivotal year for a lot of people and particularly if you are in leadership.

Calvin Stovall: You have to be careful.

Calvin Stovall: Because you know your employees are watching everything you do, and if you were to type of LEADER that was like the sky was falling oh woe is me.

Calvin Stovall: With with with no optimism that will rub off on your team and, of course, that will rub off on the customer experience, which is what you don’t want to see happen, and so I think in this, in this case particularly leaders that I like to call it, pragmatic optimism.

Calvin Stovall: And why I call it, that is, people don’t want a leader that has their head in the sand, either, and just say you know what i’m just going to ignore everything that’s going around me where the skies wonderful things are going to be great now that’s not going to work people want truth.

Calvin Stovall: But they also know that you can help, and we, together, could get to a brighter future I think there’s a balance there and so.

Calvin Stovall: You know that whole that 2020 was a year, where I think that that and the connectedness was so important, if you were if you were the type of leader and you all, you did was talk about.

Calvin Stovall: You know, because a lot of people were working from home and all of that, you know.

Calvin Stovall: If you’re only focused on productivity spreadsheets all of that stuff you you missed the boat because really The thing is, you should have been talking more about.

Calvin Stovall: People self self making sure they’re taken care of themselves you showing empathy for situations and things of that nature, because now that we’re coming out of this trust me people never forget yeah.

Calvin Stovall: And they will know if you only cared about your numbers versus me as an individual.

David Horsager: We saw that for sure we said we had a phrase around here lead with empathy lead the.

David Horsager: conversation with them, but the.

David Horsager: lead with it’s something else that you, you talked about whether you know whether wherever it was inspired probably your own brain but it sure reminds me of some other truth.

David Horsager: That pragmatic optimism piece I love the balance of that because, as you may or may not have heard the story, but I think it was, if I remember right Admiral Stockdale was the highest ranking.

David Horsager: prisoner war and the Vietnam War and excuse me, he was you know.

David Horsager: He was asked after people got out he said he saw so many people die as prisoners of war and it ate them so deeply and then a reporter, I believe, or some.

David Horsager: might even been calling to interviewed him and said what was it about those that died, was it was there anything specific and he said.

David Horsager: It was the optimists they all you know said Oh, they all thought i’m going to get out by Christmas i’m going to get out by Easter and they they just blinded themselves to the pragmatic part and they just.

David Horsager: wow, and so this became known as the Stockdale paradox that those actually that made it were actually.

David Horsager: able to first confront the brutal truth and we saw this in the in the pandemic many people like you said put their head in the sand, what I was not happy not real those that they were able to confirm this.

David Horsager: we’ve got some issues we gotta do we got to empathize we’re gonna do this, but they did have it was a paradox, because that was balanced with a long term optimism.

David Horsager: yeah a.

David Horsager: Long term hope and so while they had to confront the truth or did they also had long term hope and that’s I think saying the exact same thing is what you found in your world.

David Horsager: And that is pragmatic got not blind optimism, not just hey everything’s gonna be alright.

David Horsager: dining it’s actually raining you know.

David Horsager: So I think that’s very interesting let’s let’s jump to the fourth quadrant of being iconic.

Calvin Stovall: No right all right Dave, this is probably all of them are important, but I think this one’s really critical and that is the be consistent and it’s two things two points to this one.

Calvin Stovall: focus on what matters most course you want to make sure you’re focusing on your product and make sure you’re being consistent and things of that nature, but the biggest thing for this quadrant is never becoming too comfortable or complacent.

Calvin Stovall: And so you don’t want to get you don’t want to be a blockbuster or or circuit city or some of these other brands that that didn’t want to innovate.

Calvin Stovall: You know, because of the situation, you know, everybody knows the situation with blockbuster when the guy came to him and told him about hey look, I want to do this netflix thing you know as male or at the time and and the guy that was.

Calvin Stovall: I think I think his name is john and yoko I think that was his name, he was running blockbuster at the time, and he told him, no, thank you.

Calvin Stovall: People going to be written these things for ages, I got this you know, and then they were back up 10 years later.

Calvin Stovall: same thing tower records same situation that owner russ Solomon he he just dismissed downloading music, so my whole thing here about this one is sometimes success can be a barrier to innovation.

Calvin Stovall: So you can you can become so comfortable that you, you lose sight of where things are headed you don’t want to I love this term, people say you don’t want to get uber arrived.

Calvin Stovall: Right.

Calvin Stovall: No, no uber turn things upside you know turn that you know the taxi industry upside down and so that airbnb same thing with the hospitality industry, they weren’t ready for that and that’s why I always always encourage people you know.

Calvin Stovall: You have to watch your competitors that’s that’s true and I think that’s that’s you have to make sure it watch what they’re doing but but it’s typically when you get disrupted is usually not your competitor is somebody outside of.

Calvin Stovall: You know, so I always encourage people look outside of the industry as well, and what they’re doing this innovative that you can borrow.

David Horsager: How else can they do it yeah because you know you get yeah it’s like okay I didn’t you know we were taxis were attacked, you know taxi drivers and.

David Horsager: And they just didn’t think about that positive there’s no way someone’s gonna get in with a stranger it’s you know people often tritely sale, just think outside the box.

Calvin Stovall: well.

David Horsager: Right so easy to do it it’s like okay you at Hilton you know worldwide the market cap on airbnb is magnificently higher with less than 2000 employees than five believe 5 million, you know Hilton.

David Horsager: properties that are magnificent so something hit even Hilton right so.

Calvin Stovall: yeah yeah.

David Horsager: How do we actually you know we talked about innovation I love this, by the way, success as a barrier to innovation that’s.

David Horsager: Totally true we’re doing well, but how do we actually keep pressing ourselves to innovator, see the next thing, most people know people didn’t see the pandemic coming when I asked.

Calvin Stovall: As a.

David Horsager: futurist I had one of the editors on this show you know top features in the world, and they can see certain things, but they don’t see a lot of things, is there any.

David Horsager: way to you know actually get rid of the blind spots and see things in time.

Calvin Stovall: yeah you know what i’m not my thing is this, you know day there are there are things that you can control them those things that you can.

Calvin Stovall: And I just tell people to what frustrates what most guess most people frustrated is they’re typically focusing on something that they have really no control.

Calvin Stovall: So, but my my recommendation to people is focus on the things you can’t control and what you can control is to constantly keep learning.

Calvin Stovall: And and and have a have a curious curiosity mindset, because if you are always reading or The thing is, those those great about the world when today Dave Pack is.

Calvin Stovall: Learning in such a great way, I mean now podcast now you have Ted talks, you have audio books, you have a lot of things like that, where you can you can leverage and take advantage of.

Calvin Stovall: But just just continue to learn and what it does, is it, it helps you think differently there’s a lot of smart right people out out here like yourself, and so you know you, I think it just just keeping that you know when you’re a child, like my boys man they they’re curious about.


Calvin Stovall: Everything and as we get older we feel like we know everything, and you know we’ve done everything that you know but but that’s not the case, and sometimes as leaders, sometimes we feel like we have to know everything, but you don’t and you can’t.

Calvin Stovall: Right.

David Horsager: We talked about this this morning we’re actually filming.

David Horsager: On our trust edge pillar of competency, how do we stay fresh relevant and capable.

David Horsager: And we have everything from.

David Horsager: You know podcast to coaching to masterminds to being a part of associations to having.

David Horsager: mentors to reading you want a great new idea read an old book right so there’s a whole lot of ways we can stay fresh and relevant than capable, so that.

David Horsager: How do we be iconic Calvin stovall you be unique be authentic be passionate be consistent, you have an example of a brand that’s doing this, or two.

Calvin Stovall: Oh wow man, I think, I think, and one of my one of my favorite brands and I know is chick fil a and I know it’s a it’s kind of fast food, but not really but, but if you.

Calvin Stovall: And I like because it’s as simple as that, but there they always at the top of every food and beverage restaurant rating because they’re consistent their product is good but they’re people are chest.

Calvin Stovall: unique.


David Horsager: So kids are over at.

David Horsager: The other place, but these how did they learn to say my pleasure and keep a clean bathroom right.

Calvin Stovall: exactly that that is a that is a blue diamond that’s a core band that they have and and I just find that.

Calvin Stovall: fascinating Southwest airlines is not like every other airline eating, they are they they train their people different that people are unique experiences different you know.

Calvin Stovall: nordstrom department stores ritz carlton these days they understand the importance of of creating experiences, but they’ve also empower people to create those experiences.

David Horsager: Interesting since you’re in the you know hotel industry or we’re, especially now with your consulting and speaking still all over hospitality but but we had her sheltie on who is one of the founders of.

David Horsager: And it was he who inspired chick fil a to say my pleasure, because that’s what they did at the ready.

David Horsager: And they say, well, we want it, we think that’s a good idea let’s just do what you do at the risk that okay okay so boom, all of a sudden my pleasure goes across chick fil a I.

David Horsager: We were joking last night with some friends, we wish that the chick fil a drive thru folks their system would be used by government and the license.

David Horsager: Commission see what God immensely.

Calvin Stovall: Oh, my God man isn’t this amazing with all of the things that that that’s out here today, some the government just doesn’t they don’t get it.

David Horsager: they’re not incentivized to, though.

Calvin Stovall: yeah.

David Horsager: I mean you’re not incentivized if you, you know when you’re incentivized financially to be efficient than there’s some you know we have to incentivize it’s just like our government in many ways in our media in many ways are incentivized against building trust.

David Horsager: yeah so also we pay for you know D, instead of ization trust So what do we get less trust in government let’s trust the media and so forth, and that’s why that’s why free enterprise in many ways is so good, because we incentivize.

David Horsager: Effectiveness and we actually incentivize what the customer wants many some people think of course we’re incentivizing making money or we’re in sentiment know we’re incentivizing actually doing what’s best for the customer, because if we don’t take.

David Horsager: care of them better than anybody else we don’t get paid and feed her.

David Horsager: Children so.

Calvin Stovall: I love it I love it.

David Horsager: Anyway, that’s a little side note that i’m sure I will get flak and critique for.

Calvin Stovall: That it was all true.

David Horsager: You know.

David Horsager: Try to stay on the side of truth in spite of critique I.

David Horsager: say you know if you want to get critiqued for a living.

David Horsager: I brought my wiser older brother, used to say this economist yeah you want to get critiqued for the living.

David Horsager: yeah I mean what he says we’re in more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think, and I say, if you want to get critiqued for a living, give a speech write a book or lead anything.

Calvin Stovall: Right yeah.


David Horsager: haven throw darts if you write a book or give a speech or have a podcast there, so you got that right you gotta tie so.

David Horsager: i’m great well I love it any can you, you know we’re we got to wrap this up before we do, is there any person that you say where they live, this out, is there a leader that you see, and maybe maybe we know that maybe we don’t but.

David Horsager: Is there any person you think of Okay, because I know you help a lot of leaders, you know use this framework to, in essence, be iconic to.

David Horsager: be relevant and, last but any any example.

David Horsager: of someone in one part of this.

Calvin Stovall: yeah but I, I am a huge fan of john Maxwell and and.

David Horsager: I loved I was on stage with him last week.

David Horsager: What yes we’re at the Houston at world series of sales with 1000 people whatever I was on right before him, it was a treat so we got to.

Calvin Stovall: Actually, also one up anything, by the way, but yeah my new book trusted leader, he.

David Horsager: He put his code on the pivotal guide for days later, so i’m honored.

David Horsager: That and also.

David Horsager: We sit on an expert of experts in residence at high point and some other things so.

David Horsager: You said that.

Calvin Stovall: yeah that was yeah because that was just coincidental but he is he is somebody that I follow, I have followed for a long time I just like his his his authenticity is always passionate and very consistent he’s you know he’s iconic in my eyes to me, one of the people that I just I admire.

David Horsager: Right great well let’s bring it to to a little bit personal as we wrap for the clothes, you know we talking leadership, and I know you’ve been a leader in many organizations from.

David Horsager: As they talked about the Hilton groups to St jude’s to nonprofit where you were a CEO and now running your own organization, where you teach this framework around the world.

David Horsager: Yes, what, how do you lead yourself what are you have any routines are things i’m you’re trying to be a good dad just like i’m trying to be you’re trying to We hope that we’re a bigger hero to those that.

David Horsager: Know us the most than two people way out there and the audience, how do you how do you, what do you do consistently that last part of your framework to lead yourself well.

Calvin Stovall: Well, you know I I am I am a believer you know so, so I do spend time in the word a little bit you know enough to.

Calvin Stovall: really strengthen myself because it’s tough out here man and sometimes you need to that it is, and you know, like you said, people can critique you all the time and so.

Calvin Stovall: The Bible is a good source of energy for me and it gives me, you know more inspiration to keep pressing so i’m pretty consistent with that I can always be better but i’m pretty consistent with it and and self care.

Calvin Stovall: I gotta take care of myself, because I want to be here for my boys and I love to have I love that have a high energy and so.

Calvin Stovall: I work out consistently and trying to eat better but and then and then my boys and then my family they’re not they’re my guys, so you know I want to make sure that they are.

Calvin Stovall: You know just impactful citizens in the world and, of course, be able to make their own decisions, but I want them to be gentlemen and scholars.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Oh, I love it and you have one little takeaway favorite resource or book right now, these days, that you’re like.

David Horsager: ooh that right now, this one’s hidden me.

Calvin Stovall: I have been you know I have been on this damon john kick for a while and you know, yes, yes, several books that he has but but I like his philosophy his whole hustle philosophy and and it’s kind of I mean I know he’s on that show, and all of that, but his books are really.

Calvin Stovall: kind of grassroots and so I like his approach to things and him having been with football and how he brought that up.

Calvin Stovall: I just love that whole hustle mentality so i’ve kind of been on his i’ve been on his coattails a little bit for the last last several months so he’s kind of been a guy i’ve been following quite a bit.

David Horsager: love it.

David Horsager: hey this has been a treat we’ve got one final question we asked everybody on the show before we do that question where can we find out everything about you.

David Horsager: Your framework and you’re even getting your podcast you’ve got iconic presentations.net will have linked in the show notes so everybody just look at the show notes iconic presentations.net anywhere else we should.

David Horsager: Look, or can we put everything there.

Calvin Stovall: You can find everything there pretty much but i’m almost all the socials you know, an iconic speaker on Twitter on g of course i’m only then.

Calvin Stovall: And you know in in so of course I do have that patek podcast called iconic mindset um I do that with a Co host and john of Allah and they’re on all of the platforms as well there, so you can just type in Calvin stobo iconic.

Calvin Stovall: he’ll come up.

David Horsager: I love it Calvin final question you’ve already you know offered a few of them in daymond john and john Maxwell but we always ask it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.

Calvin Stovall: Yes, there is a guy that I know.

Calvin Stovall: His name is Jim hall hauser Jim was the.

Calvin Stovall: brand leader or SVP for homewood suites when I was at Hilton.

Calvin Stovall: i’ll never forget, Jim because Jim was iconic particularly and how he laid his people he trusted us, and he, let us try things that had never been done before.

Calvin Stovall: Which, which is why I think homework was so successful and, of course, you had to make sure that the ideas that you brought on strategy and all that.

Calvin Stovall: But, but what I what was unique about Jim was that he was one of the best listeners talk about empathy in leadership that was it he embodied that and he was just a unique guy he actually runs focus brands now.

Calvin Stovall: But he so he’s he’s going over to to the food and beverage side of things.

Calvin Stovall: But, but he was just I will always remember him because he was just so different in his approach to leadership he had everything that you talk about the trust.

Calvin Stovall: The leadership calm and all of those things that was that was just him and that’s a guy if you want to emulate a great leader, he was the one.

Calvin Stovall: I love it yeah yeah.

David Horsager: Well, this has been fantastic it’s been really fun to reconnect Calvin.

David Horsager: yeah even though you’re you’ve you’ve.

David Horsager: flown the coupon Minnesota.

David Horsager: Lots of takeaways here today a few my favorites you can copy the product, but not the experience.

David Horsager: focus on what you can control success is a barrier to in ovation.

David Horsager: Then Everybody now knows the framework for being iconic be unique and authentic and passionate.

David Horsager: and consistent Calvin thanks for being on this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 34: Curtis J. Morley on How To Break Free Of The Entrepreneur’s Paradox

In this episode, David sits down with Curtis J. Morley, 5X Entrepreneur, Author, Educator, Thought Leader, and Patent Holder, to discuss how you can break free of the entrepreneur’s paradox.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell 

Curtis’s Bio:
Curtis Morley, a 5x entrepreneur, author, educator, thought leader, and patent holder, helps entrepreneurs achieve next-level growth. Curtis has built companies achieving 20x growth and acquired 96 of the Fortune 100 as clients. He’s been Entrepreneur of the Year, 40-Under-40, and Inc. 500/5000 six times including Hall of Fame.

Curtis’s Links:
Website: https://www.entrepreneursparadox.com/
“The Entrepreneur’s Paradox” by Curtis J. Morley: https://amzn.to/3go48bK
Twitter: https://twitter.com/speedclimb
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtismorley/

Key Quotes:
1. “I don’t believe businesses fail, I believe entrepreneurs quit.”
2. “Another name for change is opportunity.”
3. “I believe that any business can succeed with the right business principles applied.”
4. “The only constant is change.”
5. “Business involves small pivots every week, every month, every quarter, every year.”
6. “If you’re building the product, who’s building the business?”
7. “Decisions done in desperation dictate disaster.”
8. “We’re only born with two innate fears, everything else is learned and can be unlearned.”
9. “Fear falters when faced.”
10. “Life doesn’t happen to you. Life happens for you.”
11. “Life is a blessing.”
12. “If my attitude is that life happens to me, I’m a victim. If my attitude is that life happens for me, all of a sudden I turn into a victor. But if I say life happens through me, now I’m a vessel for something greater than myself.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Entrepreneur’s Paradox” by Curtis J. Morley: https://amzn.to/3go48bK
“The Virtual Assistant Solution” by Michael Hyatt: https://amzn.to/3pR25ji

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer and we have a special guest today, please, welcome to the show the one and only curtis J morally curtis thanks for being on.

Curtis Morley: David i’m so honored Thank you so much.

David Horsager: Well curtis if people don’t know about curtis he is the author of the entrepreneurs paradox he’s director of the collard initiative on technology at the University of utah.

David Horsager: he’s started five companies multi million dollar companies his last one had clients 96 of the fortune 100.

David Horsager: He has been the entrepreneur of the year he’s a patent holder he’s training for boston’s after a big back surgery and climbing kilimanjaro last year.

David Horsager: you’re just an interesting guy but you love your family you’ve got five kiddos you have built these companies that have really added value to the world, you just had an exit not too long ago again and.

David Horsager: I think you know you’re an example of a trusted leader, both in business and at home and a generous giver in many other ways, you know I sit on the board of a university you’re doing a lot of service in in.

David Horsager: University and other initiatives and i’m just so grateful to have you here so thanks again for being on curtis.

Curtis Morley: it’s such a pleasure so fun to to be in contact again.

David Horsager: Yes.

David Horsager: And I had the honor of endorsing your book we’re going to jump in on that book again anything else you would just say hey something most people don’t know about curtis J Morley.

Curtis Morley: a really interesting one is i’m actually allergic to chocolates.

Curtis Morley: Oh, believe it or not, yeah.

David Horsager: i’m very sorry about that.

David Horsager: So you’re not allergic to all ice cream that’s that’s where we get a problem.

Curtis Morley: Now we can we can do the other ice cream pistachio, and the reason wrong and all those.

David Horsager: Go and we’re but we’re both we got other similarities, but we’re both from small towns and and a whole lot of other things let’s jump in I mean I think there’s so much to unpack.

David Horsager: In in your new book entrepreneurs paradox and and just your experience in not just you know many people start companies and they fail, but I mean.

David Horsager: you’ve actually been successful at this and I i’m proud of the way you’ve done so much of it, so I want to jump in on this book and just maybe you could give an overview for everybody, you know why this book entrepreneurs paradox and what’s the core of it.

Curtis Morley: yeah i’m so glad you brought that up specifically the you know how how businesses fail and, if you look at the Bureau of Labor statistics, they say that 30% of businesses will go defunct within the first year.

Curtis Morley: And in five years 50% will be out of business and I don’t believe it at all I know the data is accurate, but I believe they they’ve got a faulty assumption, I believe the assumption is that businesses fail I don’t believe businesses fail, I believe, entrepreneurs quit.

Curtis Morley: And that is a big reason a big reason why I wrote the book.

David Horsager: So why did they quit I mean, by the way we I think I have some of my new writing is on it’s not you know.

David Horsager: That i’ve been working on is kind of looking at like true contradictions so like you know the early bird gets the worm but be patient right both.

David Horsager: can be true.

David Horsager: Right it’s like and and I would say, by the way, to the point you’re making there is a another true contradiction or tension, and that is persevere versus pivot.

David Horsager: You and I have, I think, have both seen people persevere and they’ve just made it because they persevered I mean I can talk about myself 21 years ago, starting in the basement with $1 40 to my name black mold on the walls and whatever.

David Horsager: And yet we also see people persevere right off the cliff.

David Horsager: Other people.

David Horsager: We see you know pivot too early and they don’t make it others are seen as brilliant because they pivoted just in time or they would have gone off right so So what is it that makes them, maybe quit or quit at the wrong time.

Curtis Morley: yeah and I love this especially this is so timely in our in our current environment.

Curtis Morley: or current environment with the pandemic going on, but I get asked all the time is is it a good idea to start a business in the middle of a pandemic and and, believe it or not, and my answer is an emphatic yes, not just a yes, but an emphatic yes.

David Horsager: So why.

Curtis Morley: it’s because right now we’re experiencing unprecedented change globally we’re seeing changed that’s never been to this extent and the whole world and the entire planet is doing things differently and the the offer the opportunity is there and another name for change is opportunity.

David Horsager: So I don’t check the right opportunities.

David Horsager: Because obviously change is kind of it is you can have good change or a bad change right but change creates opportunity So how do I.

David Horsager: How do I notice it, and then we got it we got to come back around to that question of of you know what we say, you know what makes us quit what makes people quit at the wrong time.

Curtis Morley: mm hmm yeah yeah if I can share an example to.

Curtis Morley: illustrate the please one of my favorites entrepreneurs young entrepreneurs her name is kylie chin.

Curtis Morley: And she runs a global expedition company called acapella expeditions she’s actually the one that took me to the top of kilimanjaro and she’s amazing.

Curtis Morley: And as you can imagine, if you think of all the industries, all the businesses that were impacted by the pandemic, you know what was impacted most.

Curtis Morley: Arguably traveler and kylie went from a multimillion dollar business to zero in one month like zero not not one customer not to customer zero bookings and.

Curtis Morley: And she could have just quick she could have income, one of the statistics that would have been marked the Bureau of Labor statistics and said okay i’m done, I went off the cliff whoops Oh well.

Curtis Morley: What she didn’t and and there’s a key here is what she did is she said i’m I don’t believe the need or the demand disappeared.

Curtis Morley: I think it just moved it moved locations and and with the pandemic your travel and you’ve got here it got shut off there was literally only a couple countries that were even letting people in.

Curtis Morley: out out of United States, and so it got cut off so she said, where did the need go where did the knee or or did it transition to and she said.

Curtis Morley: Well, people still wanted adventure, they still want that you know that excitement of exploring something new and going to places they’ve never seen and and seeing the world in different ways and opening their eyes and so she said well.

Curtis Morley: Why not provide that domestically so she created a completely different new and different company called wonder camp.

Curtis Morley: And it’s basically doing expedition travel within the United States around the national parks and the amazing thing David is that she is now doing as much business domestically, as she was internationally, and as soon as the pandemics over now she’s gonna have to multimillion dollar.

David Horsager: interesting when you said something interesting way back and I guess that that’s the single biggest indicator of entrepreneurial success something specific you said in your book what’s the what is the single biggest indicator of entrepreneurial success.

Curtis Morley: it’s an indefatigable drive to to never give up.

Curtis Morley: And I know you know that.

David Horsager: yeah so.

David Horsager: The we have this drive, but so you know back to something we started with, would you agree that there are some people, though, that persevere right off the cliff.

Curtis Morley: Oh absolutely.

David Horsager: Absolutely So how do we decide.

David Horsager: yeah when to pivot when to persevere, how do we stay with the right thing at the right time, I miss a big challenge for entrepreneurs.

Curtis Morley: yeah I, I believe that any business can succeed with the right business principles applied, and one of those right business principles is making sure you have market fit and market demand.

Curtis Morley: And then kylie’s case you look at the demand and the demand didn’t disappear, the demand was there, but it wasn’t there international and so.

Curtis Morley: So she said okay it’s time to pivot and understanding those business principles, looking at every single quarter saying, where we at where is the demand, how can we prove that demand.

Curtis Morley: Those are the questions to ask to make sure that you are pivoting to the right place the, the only constant is change.

Curtis Morley: And so, with that in mind, we need to change with it and just plan on changing like there’s big pivots and then there’s business and business involves small pivots every week every month every quarter of the year, it we’re we’re constantly pivoting we can’t be in business without.

David Horsager: How do we, how do we decide like how much to pivot when to pivot, how do we have that be a almost a part of our innovative cycle of thinking, how do I need to pivot now should I pivot like without it, you know becoming us and we don’t persevere when we ought to.

Curtis Morley: mm hmm yeah yeah the actually talked about this in one of the chapters in the entrepreneurs paradox about the example of Thomas Edison.

Curtis Morley: And and there’s the common held belief that Thomas Edison created light bulb well, the truth is six other people, created the light bulb before Thomas Edison.

Curtis Morley: And you look at at his drive and his singular focus, he was so focused on creating a commercially viable light bulb, and that was the big difference if you look at the other.

Curtis Morley: People the other inventors the other business leaders that created other versions of the light bulb before Thomas Edison.

Curtis Morley: They were all well funded, just like him, they were all well connected, they were all well educated, they had everything except they didn’t push through the hard times they created something said hey everybody Look how cool, this is, and then they said, but making it commercially viable.

Curtis Morley: it’s gonna be tough and so they gave up.

David Horsager: That brings us to another, you know really good question because you’ve done this before.

David Horsager: You you’ve sold companies for millions you’ve you’ve you’ve actually had the experience of really growing companies from startup to growth phase.

David Horsager: How do you take it so many people stay in startup let’s say all these other six not not Edison, but these others they stay in the startup phase, but how do they get to and through this rapid growth phase, how do they have to think differently, how do they have to act differently to.

David Horsager: overcome that barrier you talk about that a little bit in the book.

Curtis Morley: I love this question, I absolutely love this question because most entrepreneurs, they do hit this invisible ceiling.

Curtis Morley: They hit this glass ceiling and and there’s some inflection points along the way, and each one of those inflection point has its own ceiling.

Curtis Morley: And one of the key differentiators from a small business that is hitting that ceiling over and over again, and a business that’s experiencing rapid growth.

Curtis Morley: there’s a couple of them, but i’ll just hit on a few here the one of the key differentiators is getting out of the entrepreneurs paradox getting out of their own way.

Curtis Morley: And and realizing that the thing that got them into business is actually what will actively prevent them from succeeding in business.

David Horsager: How do we do it, how do we give it up like Oh, but but with our fingerprints on it, you know it’s the quality is there and the.

David Horsager: The touches there and that, how do we give up, especially when it’s not that it’s a personal brand, but when it’s a you know.

David Horsager: it’s it’s it’s we created this no one else has done it better, in a certain way or given that experience how do we, how do we.

David Horsager: multiply that I mean, I see this challenge with so many people in our work in our business in in businesses like ours that they they just can’t grow to scale when they actually they have something that ought to be scalable.

Curtis Morley: yeah yeah exactly and and one question that I asked every entrepreneur that I work with is if you’re building the product who’s building the business.

Curtis Morley: Think about that if you’re building the product who’s building the business.

Curtis Morley: And that’s The paradox is typically people get into business because they’re really good at something there and they may be the best in the world at what they do, typically they are, and I mean they may have written this incredible dissertation on trust.

Curtis Morley: and realize, you know i’ve really got something here and people love it and, in my case yeah I was.

Curtis Morley: Creating interactive media and my first company and people were like i’ve never seen things like this, this is so cool.

Curtis Morley: We you know, will you do it for me and you need to start a company and i’m thinking well, of course, I do if I know how to create really cool websites, then of course I know how to start a business.

Curtis Morley: Oh no.

David Horsager: So, what was the first did you hire the right.

David Horsager: Number two did you hire the right President, what did you do to if you are the expert in building the product, what did you do to build the company that was sellable or scalable.

Curtis Morley: Well, the first few times I failed I made all the mistakes possible.

Curtis Morley: You really did.

David Horsager: And what would I do differently.

Curtis Morley: that’s really why that’s why I wrote the book, yes, because is because I didn’t make all the mistakes, I made every one of the 16 pitfalls I just fell face first and.

Curtis Morley: And, and then I realized that there’s a better way there’s a better way to do this there’s a faster way to do this there’s a way that you can actually get sleep at night.

Curtis Morley: And you don’t have to work three hours or three days straight, so there is a better way and it took truly the school of hard knocks to teach me these lessons.

David Horsager: So let’s jump in but people need to get this book the entrepreneurs paradox, but let’s jump into what are a few ways we can think of like right now let’s take an entrepreneur.

David Horsager: or leader and say oh they’ve got this great thing but they’ve kind of hit a ceiling, you know they haven’t been able to scale it grow beyond themselves, they haven’t you know.

David Horsager: What, what are the things they need to think about doing what are a few of the things from the book that like you hit this mistake, what did they do, what did you do.

Curtis Morley: yeah the The first one is you got to drain the swamp and I use an analogy of wrestling alligators so if.

Curtis Morley: You know we all start businesses and it’s usually we’re in the real world, we have a day job we fly over to entrepreneur islands.

Curtis Morley: And we’re sitting on the beach sipping our coconuts and you know, fishing and pulling in the big fish and building sandcastles and it’s amazing that we get real there’s just this energy about it, like wow I did something really cool and people actually loved it.

Curtis Morley: And let me get Let me give the quote here that I pulled out from the book it’s hard to remember to drain the swamp when your eye to eye with the alligator.

Curtis Morley: Yes, so.

David Horsager: Tell us about this.

Curtis Morley: So when we’re sitting there on the island, you know we think is this glorious waste and beach with the the beautiful smell the flowers and the ocean breeze.

Curtis Morley: And we’re sitting there, and all of a sudden, an alligator crawls out of.

Curtis Morley: The forest behind us, or the jungle and and we’re like wait a minute wait a minute, this is not what I signed up for I signed up for the beach and the ocean.

Curtis Morley: And the alligator comes in the form of HR issues comes in the form of of legal accounting comes in the form of all of these things that we didn’t expect we’re really good at our trade whether it’s.

Curtis Morley: teaching people about trust or cool websites or cupcakes or guitar building or international travel whatever it is that’s what we have a passion and love for and that’s why we started the company in the first place.

Curtis Morley: What we didn’t realize, is that there were all these alligators so we wake up every morning when we jump on that alligator we wrestle it all day long and we go to bed, and the next morning there’s another alligator climbing out of the swamp.

Curtis Morley: And the way to to break free from that cycle and break out of that first glass ceiling is to drain the swamp.

Curtis Morley: And the draining the swamp means creating systems hiring the right people taking off all the hats, because as entrepreneurs, we love to wear all the hats, we want to pretend I may not be a lawyer, but I play one on TV.

Curtis Morley: All of those things, and when we when we relinquish that including being the best in the world at our craft.

Curtis Morley: And that’s the hard one that’s the that’s the entrepreneurial reboot of the operating system within you know that’s the hardest one is being able to give up.

Curtis Morley: i’m the best in this world at this but I actually need other people to be the best in the world at what I started the company that’s when the entrepreneur breaks out of that glass ceiling.

David Horsager: love it.

David Horsager: that the next one one thing you say is decisions done in desperation dictate disaster.

David Horsager: And I think of this because I think that’s where many are there wrestling they’ll have a alligator.

David Horsager: And they’re in desperation and they’re like we have this great thing it’s amazing it’s awesome and but all of a sudden, they can’t do it all well and they can’t.

David Horsager: handle the growth, they can’t keep up with the growth can you give us some some tips for making those decisions and also for for.

David Horsager: really still like like scaling early on, like getting are not scaling early on, but but but but prepping for rapid growth like what are the systems, you need, who are the first hire you hires you’d make yeah.

Curtis Morley: Absolutely, and the first hires are going to be a lawyer and an accountant.

Curtis Morley: And, and when I say hire doesn’t mean that you bring them on full time you can you know get a fractional CFO.

Curtis Morley: Or you can have a lawyer, that you know you pay for five hours a month or 10 hours a month, whatever it is, but those are going to be some really key ones, especially the accountant and then one that I really think is critical is is hiring an assistant.

Curtis Morley: And, especially if you are doing everything all day you need somebody you know, one of the alligators that is just chronic for entrepreneurs, they love to book their own travel.

Curtis Morley: And you think about that you know they’ll spend an hour to three hours figure it out just the right flight with just the right hotel.

Curtis Morley: that’s three hours you could be working on a multimillion dollar strategy that’s you know, three hours you could be getting back in your life, and you can pay somebody a fairly modest wage to be doing that for you.

David Horsager: I remember when someone said to me early on and I hired probably before I could afford it, but my first hire was the assistant executive assistant, I remember somebody said to me.

David Horsager: Two things one hire it done if possible hair done if it’s not your expertise hire it done and the other thing they said you’ve got to hire done $10 an hour work, so you can do thousand dollar an hour work.

David Horsager: And it’s not like that that’s the money, the amount it’s just that the value like what you can do is bring this, but if you’re doing $10 an hour work you can’t do the thousand dollar an hour work and that’s only.

David Horsager: Really, a number of how much value, you can give to people when you’re using the best of you right, so I agree with that, I actually started yeah.

David Horsager: We have subcontracted you know early on lawyers accountants those kind of things helped a lot, but I think it’s another school of thought is Michael hyatt story he wrote a book called.

David Horsager: world class I think world class executive assistants and basically when I read it, he basically built his company to millions and millions of dollars on assistance like hiring the right assistance now at some point, you need a CEO or I would think.

David Horsager: You know something there right but.

David Horsager: it’s it’s kind of along those lines of try to get out of all these things, and only do the thing that you can do right first and then what you’re saying is then that thing that you think only you can do train someone else to do that thing.

Curtis Morley: Exactly exactly and and truly if you’re the entrepreneur, you can either be the entrepreneur or the solo printer and most most people when they hit that glass ceiling, they are the solo printer.

Curtis Morley: And it’s not until they start doing the things that like taking off the hats and it’s funny because people say well it’s hard to take off the hats.

Curtis Morley: And I say why, why is it hard to take off the hats and you hit on something really important, you said, well, nobody does it as good as I do it right.

Curtis Morley: And it really comes down to trust, but it comes down to trust in two ways the first is that I need to trust someone else that they will own this the way I own.

Curtis Morley: But the second trust that’s important when taking off all the hats, is that I need to trust myself.

Curtis Morley: I need to trust myself that I can train someone to do it, the way that I want it done that I needed done company produces and so it’s trusting others but it’s also trusting myself, and when I work with entrepreneurs and help them see this, the second one is actually harder.

Curtis Morley: Because oftentimes they don’t trust themselves to be able to distill that knowledge.

Curtis Morley: And that expertise to someone else.

David Horsager: that’s so true wow.

David Horsager: Well there’s a lot there’s so much here people got to get the book, but this is something that stood out also we’re only born with two and eight fears, everything else is learned and can be unlearned.

David Horsager: what’s that mean.

Curtis Morley: So in 1969 they did a study and they said, what are the fears that were born, so they took infants and toddlers and and it’s not snakes it’s not the dark it’s not any of the things you know public speech.

Curtis Morley: it’s not any of those things the to make fears and the only fears, they were able to identify in children was the fear of falling.

Curtis Morley: And the fear of loud noises that’s it or no other fears that were inmate when we come down from heaven and join this earth, you know that’s it those are the only two and they’re they’re actually survival techniques with you think about it.

David Horsager: So howdy i’m learning how to learn for years once you’ve had look at, you can have a.

David Horsager: We we deal with people you know they’ve had a traumatic experience to put our feet in their shoes, I mean I can think of the time you know I used to even you know have my lifeguarding certificate to lifeguard and then I got caught underneath of.

David Horsager: Something and almost drown myself and It made me.

David Horsager: Somewhat claustrophobic In fact I still feel at certain times when I get in a certain environment can’t get out because I was stuck under this water with our way out for quite a long time until I found a.

David Horsager: Basically, a you know way across this pool that was covered.

David Horsager: A way out and just by seeing a shining light opening my eyes and that chlorinated water and and seeing the light come in this one area in a pitch black pool and It made me somewhat claustrophobic I wouldn’t mind unlearning that claustrophobia.

Curtis Morley: it’s funny I can totally relate, I thought I was strong enough swimmer to catch my brother off the diving board when I was just a little kid and or boy was I wrong, so I understand that fear of of the water and the fear of that claustrophobia and I.

David Horsager: don’t know if you’re a water I swim I do triathlons now and whatever, but if.

Curtis Morley: know.

David Horsager: It really what it made is it made a fear of animal can swim across certain lakes now not not huge ones, but you know I mean, I can but, but the thing for me now is under anything or tuck tight anything tight like I can’t you know.

Curtis Morley: yeah no I totally get it and yeah having doing triathlons to it’s it was a learning skills swim is still my hardest have.

Curtis Morley: A but.

Curtis Morley: But those fears are valid and there they come from experience and they’re valid, to the point where.

Curtis Morley: The they’re showing us they’re actually a gift that shows us hey This is something that you get overcome this is a way for you to build who you are.

Curtis Morley: And, and I talked about in the book the entrepreneurs paradox about the an exercise called fear smashing.

Curtis Morley: And we actually go through it’s a five step process to look your fear in the face and say what is it really and.

Curtis Morley: And it goes through this process of identifying fear looking in the face and seeing it for what it really is and and I love I love to say that that fear falters, when faced fear fear is actually a coward.

Curtis Morley: Fear was a serious coward and when you look at down when you look at in the eyes and say hey fair i’m actually going to see you for what you are.

Curtis Morley: It turns tail and runs, it is a calor and one real quick, this is, this is also in the book, but one real quick way of getting out of that feeling of anxiety quick in a very short amount of time is there’s there’s one letter that changes fear into power and that letter.

Curtis Morley: Well i’ll illustrate the the phrase that we often hear ourselves in our own brains say is what if.

Curtis Morley: What if my business fails, what if I work too much and my kids hate me what if I can’t make payroll What if I ruin these people’s lives, what if people think i’m a failure, what if what if what if.

Curtis Morley: And I don’t know if you can fill it but, as I say those things I can actually feel my chest constrict right, I can feel that oh that’s just a horrible feeling and if we take off the F.

Curtis Morley: And we replace it with an s.

Curtis Morley: So instead of what if now it’s what is.

Curtis Morley: and pay attention to how you feel, as I say, these statements, what is Michael.

Curtis Morley: What is in my power to change what is my next step.

Curtis Morley: What is.

Curtis Morley: My mission here on earth.

Curtis Morley: What is.

Curtis Morley: The purpose that God wants me to accomplish what is, can you feel the difference.

David Horsager: Absolutely, this goes along really well with what I when I was talking to a CEO in the middle of the pandemic and I said what’s working well for you, because I think he’s doing well, he is a client but he’s got a significant MED tech company and he said, you know when he was in the.

David Horsager: In the war college in the 1980s, he learned something, and that was when you have times of uncertainty, you ask.

David Horsager: What can I control, most people, many people that I saw do poorly as far as leaders in the pandemic or thing Oh, what about the election this, what about that what what up to the weather going to do.

David Horsager: And it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be aware of what’s happening in the environments, because we have to deal with those as leaders, we have to force Satan, and all this, but our forecast but.

David Horsager: Most many people spend all the time, all the brain calories and what they couldn’t control and those that paused and thought and spend most of their brain calories and what they could control they actually found there’s a whole lot more than you can control than you think right.

David Horsager: This goes along with that what they.

David Horsager: All these things I can control and then of those what should I do first very similar to the thought you’re talking about around fear here what what is the way out what is, in my power what what is my bigger person purpose or whatever I love it.

Curtis Morley: yeah and a dear friend of mine, Richard bass he coined the phrase that flexing on the past produces pain threading on the future fuels, fear and only the present produces how’re and peace.

Curtis Morley: And and it’s true the what is brings us to the present, but what it says today, right now, this minute.

Curtis Morley: What is what is surrounding me with blessings what you know there’s so much in the present that brings that power and that piece, that if we let go into the future, we let go of the past and we say right now, what is my next step, what is, in my power to control.

David Horsager: We can get there, we have a chance right.

what’s next.

David Horsager: So i’m going to jump to some personal things but before I do.

David Horsager: What what one more little takeaway from the book there’s so much in there for an entrepreneur, but one other thought that you’d like maybe share with us from the book that to help us.

David Horsager: Those of us that are entrepreneurs grow.

Curtis Morley: yeah, this is a hard question because there’s so much there’s business acumen there’s leadership there’s there’s trust there’s all these things.

Curtis Morley: One of the things once the actor gets out of the paradox, one of the very first things you know if you if you think about wrestling alligators and you think about the swamp your head is always down.

Curtis Morley: you’re always looking for the next alligator once you’re able to drain the swamp all of a sudden Now you can look up.

Curtis Morley: Now you can look up and you can see that on entrepreneur island there’s actually mountain ranges and it’s time to start climbing.

Curtis Morley: And so, one of the very first exercises that I worked through with entrepreneurs is picking which mountain range you’re going to climb.

Curtis Morley: And, and I have what’s called the success formula it’s a very different unique way to create a goal, specifically for entrepreneurship.

Curtis Morley: And, and with that goal is having people say all right i’m going to pick my mountain range and this was one of those Aha moments for that when I realized this i’m like whoa.

Curtis Morley: I never even considered this before is there’s only three mountain ranges and entrepreneur compliant.

Curtis Morley: there’s only three that’s it there, you know I always that well there’s all these possibilities know there’s only three the first is a lifestyle business.

Curtis Morley: The second is a buyer be bought business or you know acquisition merger.

Curtis Morley: And the third is an ipo that’s it those are the only mountain ranges that an entrepreneur can climb.

Curtis Morley: And once that realization is there, then there’s a starting point, then there’s a way to say you know what.

Curtis Morley: This is where I want to go yeah I just I really do just want a lifestyle business or you know I want to build an amazing rapid growth company that i’m buying other companies and, one day, I have an acquisition.

Curtis Morley: Or you know I want to get on Wall Street and and once that’s the case, and once we start seeing the goal and working through the success formula then that’s where I see personally that’s where I see the entrepreneurs, you know turn their needle from this to this.

David Horsager: little bit well the lot more in the entrepreneurs paradox what, what do you learn in these days, what do you what’s what what’s new.

David Horsager: How do you keep innovating and learning these days.

Curtis Morley: You know it’s.

Curtis Morley: wow.

Curtis Morley: There you just sold you just sold your fifth.

David Horsager: Company you wrote this book you’re definitely consulting and helping people a lot, but what are you learning today a lot of people say what did what did someone learn, I want to know what you learned today.

Curtis Morley: it’s it’s a daily habit, it is a daily habit on my phone, I have an APP that counts, things and and I have daily routines that I go through, and one of those is.

Curtis Morley: is learning One of those is is is getting out and understanding things like your podcasts like love your podcasts are so many amazing guests and so many great insights and.

Curtis Morley: and actually the last several years have on a personal basis, but actually been really a struggle and very painful and I sat down with a friend for lunch and he said something so amazing he said curtis life doesn’t happen to you life happens for you.

Curtis Morley: And, and that changed my thinking entirely that life is a blessing, the good things, and the trials are all blessings and that’s where I stopped, but then last month.

Curtis Morley: David Meltzer put a post up that said life doesn’t happen to you.

Curtis Morley: Life happens through you.

Curtis Morley: pencil.

Curtis Morley: It took my thinking to a whole new level but life actually does happen for me doesn’t happen to me it’s not there’s no victim it happens, for me, but it also can, if I let it, it can happen through me I can become I can go from victim to Victor to vessel.

David Horsager: I love it.

Curtis Morley: I can become a vessel.

David Horsager: We have a huge opportunity as leaders, because we can influence so many others, and those of us to get to give others jobs, what a gift to you know and a whole nother way of of influencing families people hopefully the world.

David Horsager: But so life doesn’t happen to you, it happens for you, but it can happen through you.

David Horsager: say that last part vessel.

Curtis Morley: yeah instead of like if my attitude is that life happens to me i’m a victim, if my attitude is that life happens for me also may turn into a victor.

Curtis Morley: What if I say life happens through me now i’m a vessel for something greater than myself.

David Horsager: boom drop.

David Horsager: I like it let’s.

David Horsager: Be vessels let’s be trusted vessels that’s what i’ll say about that, because we can be all kinds of vessels so let’s be trusted leaders trusted vessels so.

David Horsager: let’s Let me touch on just a couple of things here what what what’s motivating you these days you’ve been through a lot you’ve had you know I know you’ve got the training for Boston and some you know fun side things but what’s what’s motivating you toward what’s next.

Curtis Morley: um It really is tapping into my purpose on this planet and and i’ve got this.

Curtis Morley: Huge audacious goal, I want to help a million entrepreneurs reach the next level success, I want to help them find the success, not only in their business.

Curtis Morley: But in their personal lives and in their mission find success and so that’s my goal is that is helping million entrepreneurs and.

Curtis Morley: It happens with the book with the coaching mentoring, it happens with my students it’s it’s so rewarding to be able to say wait wait wait, I know where you’re going to make this mistake and don’t make it.

Curtis Morley: I can save you all of this pain years of pain, I can save you let me just help you with this one thing and that’s that’s what I love is is just truly helping people to to find themselves and then find their purpose in their business.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Well, for everybody out there there’s a whole lot in here I love this I was going to ask a few more questions but we’ve got a whole lot in here but let’s not be victims let’s not be victor’s and sit there let’s be vessels as trusted leaders.

David Horsager: i’ve got one more question for you, before I get to that, though.

David Horsager: This has been the trusted leader show everybody can go and see the show notes you’re going to find out a whole lot more on curtis J morally you’ll find out.

David Horsager: You can get his book anywhere but you’ll find out a little bit more about the entrepreneurs paradox and make sure go pick up the book.

David Horsager: And last question curtis, who is a leader you trust and why.

Curtis Morley: wow.

Curtis Morley: that’s a phenomenal question.

Curtis Morley: first thing that came to mind was the number one leader of all.

Curtis Morley: In the Bible Christ, the second was, I have a dear friend and he’s someone that I actually want to be like no because they shot him and he’s the CEO of zero rez formerly one of the Presidents of Franklin covey and.

Curtis Morley: He is he he exemplifies trust in so many ways, and actually you know, this is not platitudes you’re one of those David.

Curtis Morley: You truly are there you impacted my life, the very first time I met you you impacted my life deeply you shared the story about your dad.

Curtis Morley: And the magazine in the truck and that impacted my life severely that was so so meaningful to me and I appreciate how you you live, the principles you teach and.

Curtis Morley: yeah i’m truly grateful for that.

David Horsager: Well, thank you, thank you for that I just had team meeting this morning and and vulnerable talked about how I wish I would live out what I say, even more so i’m still working on it every day to live out exactly what I believe and.

David Horsager: continue on this journey to high trust leadership, but.

David Horsager: Well, thank you for from all the listeners, thank you for me and our friendship for being on the show curtis and like we said, you can find everything in the show notes, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 33: Mark Batterson on How To Harness Daily Habits To Achieve Your Goals

In this episode, David sits down with Mark Batterson, New York Times Best-Selling Author and Lead Pastor, to discuss how to harness the power of daily habits to achieve your goals and dreams.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Mark’s Bio:
Mark Batterson is the lead pastor of National Community Church in Washington, DC. One church with multiple locations, NCC owns and operates Ebenezers Coffeehouse, The Miracle Theatre, and the DC Dream Center. NCC is currently developing a city block into The Capital Turnaround, the 100,000 sf space will include event venue, child development center, mixed-use marketplace and co-working space. Mark holds a Doctor of Ministry degree from Regent University and is the New York Times best-selling author of twenty books including, The Circle Maker, In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day, Wild Goose Chase, Play the Man, Whisper, and recently released Win the Day. Mark and his wife Lora have three children and live on Capitol Hill.

Mark’s Links:
Website: https://www.markbatterson.com/
Mark’s NEW Book “Win The Day”: https://amzn.to/3ilLTFb
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkBatterson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markbatterson/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/markbatterson

Key Quotes:
1. “Success is when those who know you best, respect you most.”
2. “You do little things like they’re big things.”
3. “We’re not just trying to build a church, we’re trying to bless a city.”
4. “We want to meet real needs in real time.”
5. “Yesterday is history, tomorrow’s a mystery.”
6. “Whatever goal you’re going after you have to reverse engineer it into daily habits.”
7. “Can you do it for a day?”
8. “Anybody can do anything for a day.”
9. “Its really about winning streaks and losing streaks.”
10. “Time is measured in minutes. Life is measured in moments.”
11. “You have to establish boundaries.”
12. “Change of pace plus change of place equals change of perspective.”
13. “My job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.”
14. “Harder is better.”
15. “Truth is found in the tension of opposites.”
16. “We’ve got to find ways personally to create our own grand gestures.”
17. “May you die young at a ripe old age.”
18. “Without a vision, the people perish.”
19. “You have to be unoffendable.”
20. “If we keep checking our ego at the door some really good things could happen.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3ilLTFb
“Deep Work” by Cal Newport: https://amzn.to/3gguI5c
“Upstream” by Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/3z34hZc
Timehop: https://www.timehop.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer and i’m just thrilled about the guest, we have today, he is trusted by many and.

David Horsager: he’s a new friend of ours, but you’ve heard of him he’s a New York 20 time New York Times bestselling author.

David Horsager: He is the lead pastor of national community church in Washington DC.

David Horsager: You got to hear about he how he did things differently there, whether you’re a corporate leader, a government leader or a faith based leader we’re going to talk about some things they.

David Horsager: ncc owns and operates Ebenezer is copy house the miracle theater the DC dream Center, which is an amazing story.

David Horsager: of faith and leadership and CC is developing, right now, a city block into the capital turnaround the 100,000 square feet of space will include an event venue child development Center mixed use marketplace co working space.

David Horsager: Mark holds a doctorate from Regent universities like I said before, New York Times bestselling author of over 20 books or 20 books circle maker.

David Horsager: pitted along in a pit with a lion on a snowy day wild goose chase play the man whisper he just released a book we’re going to talk about a little bit, and that is when the day.

David Horsager: mark and his wife Laura, I have three children they live on Capitol Hill and he is the real deal thanks for coming on the show mark.

Mark Batterson: David Thank you and I am a native minnesotan born in minneapolis, and so we have a little bit of a connection there.

David Horsager: We do, and I got talked into going on 100 mile bike ride with you this summer I don’t know if you’ve got talked to it or not, but our friends that that awesome and father for the fatherless supporting their work, I think we’re going to be riding together this summer right or I might.

Mark Batterson: love it we sure are we’re going to bike 100 miles and I love having an annual challenge or an annual adventure.

Mark Batterson: That kind of pushes me outside of my comfort zone, it gives me something to train for and and so in this case it’s a bike in 100 miles and we’ll just we’ll pep talk each other.

Mark Batterson: We.

David Horsager: long ago, and you just reminded me that six months, two days out well I you know 10 years ago now, I lost 52 pounds in five months and I am basically I just now have this metric for every.

David Horsager: January it’s like get back into the right so i’ll go up now 10 pounds, you know back 10 but then I always come back down so it’s like every year, I need this rhythm checkpoints so that.

David Horsager: Instead of being 50 you know i’m 40 off for a little while around Christmas and then back to you know it’s like you got to have that check in.

David Horsager: And yeah come back to it.

Mark Batterson: You know I can’t believe you just drop that little fact, because now, I have 100 questions for you, I want to.

Mark Batterson: I want to hack your habits and I want to reverse engineer how that happened because I.

Mark Batterson: I lost 30 pounds in three months, which I thought was pretty impressive, but I think you just.

Mark Batterson: hit us.

Mark Batterson: You went up me or 22 pounds up me.

David Horsager: Well, that just means I went further astray right so.

David Horsager: um I felt like I need to be living this what i’m.

David Horsager: Speaking and preaching out both physically spiritually mentally and all that and I just kind of convicted on I know better, I gotta do this differently so.

David Horsager: we’re going to get into hacking the habits, but I have to say one other personal note here because i’m going to hold it up for everybody watching.

David Horsager: One of mark’s book, you can see, it had a big impact on our family we’re actually not quite done with it right now, but we started reading it on Christmas break, we often the one before that you would know Bob golf book.

David Horsager: But this book it’s called the circle maker, and we want to get into your new book and new work, maybe.

David Horsager: Do this and I want to talk about ncc and then we want to jump to the new book, so the circle maker, a couple things you said in this book.

David Horsager: And this gets to our pillar of character and the trust work my desire is that the people who know me the best.

David Horsager: would respect me.

David Horsager: The most tell me about that.

Mark Batterson: yeah I want to be famous in my own home David and it’s hard to be famous in your home if you aren’t home, and so I love, what I do i’m a entrepreneur by instinct that that includes starting a church, but, as well as that you know, a coffee house, a dream Center and we have.

Mark Batterson: $29 million building that dates to 1891 the navy yard car barn that we are currently developing as quite a project one mile from the capital, I love those things I love writing books but, at the end of the day.

Mark Batterson: i’m a husband to my wife i’m a father to my kids and that’s really how I try to judge myself because man, if you.

Mark Batterson: are going to get all five star reviews I don’t care, who you are, you can be the best author and you have to.

Mark Batterson: figure out who it is at the end of the day is really who’s going to come to your funeral you know those eulogy virtues that I think David brooks talks about so.

Mark Batterson: yeah success is when those who know you best respect you most is my wife it’s my kids and you know I think part of being you know, to borrow your phrase ology part of being a trusted LEADER I think is being better and private than you are in public.

David Horsager: Undeniably, I think we talked about all the time, you know.

David Horsager: In fact, when we did the research, the original research, one of the marks of leaders was you know doing what’s right even not just when no one’s looking, but when you don’t feel like it.

David Horsager: Yes, there’s a big push these days right do what you feel like like like.

David Horsager: Our our parents.

David Horsager: or parents today yo shout to their kids hey go have fun.

David Horsager: Well, I never showed that to my kids it’s a big joke in the family, we talked about go be good if you’ve read kelly’s work, maybe in the research there that shows the more you be good, the better fun, you have if you seek pleasure pleasure sake and in your life, you always get less right.

David Horsager: And you seek pleasure pleasures just for pleasure sake physically financially sexually you will always hurt someone and yourself do what’s right and you actually have a.

David Horsager: Satisfaction or fun that’s true or so interesting i’m going to come back to this week, we do need to get to know you a little bit at least our audience, perhaps, what about ncc in the start of that and just a bit about you.

Mark Batterson: yeah we we started a church with 19 people on Capitol Hill in 1996 and can I can I give the very short version.

David Horsager: Please.

Mark Batterson: I think, nine months in there were three keys a $50 check the 4.7 mile prayer walk which I detail in the circle maker, and a $400 drum set.

Mark Batterson: This is it’s going to leave a lot of blank space in between, but you know, we now have a DC dream Center that served 55,000 meals during the Kobe crisis in 2020.

Mark Batterson: we’ve done 273 mission trips given $25 million to missions, but it started with a $50 check i’m a big believer you do little things like they’re big things and, at least in my faith matrix gotta do big things like their little things.

Mark Batterson: And so, and then at 4.7 mile prayer walks somehow it is translated into six properties that we own on that prayer circle worth about $75 million and.

Mark Batterson: David, I want to, I want to be careful here because that’s kind of coming out of the gates and throwing out some numbers, but again it’s a 25 year.

Mark Batterson: trajectory and we’re not just trying to build a church we’re trying to bless a city and and.

Mark Batterson: You know, good example of that is we’re bringing a child development Center to our city here in about a month’s time and it’s one of our mayor’s top initiatives, and so we want to meet real needs in real.

Mark Batterson: Time and so we can come back to some of those things but.

Mark Batterson: yeah.

David Horsager: I want to say it’s a great journey and it’s a great story of faith and leadership, and I think for everybody, you know whether you’re running a business or a government or a ministry.

David Horsager: stewardship matters, and I think one thing about that i’ve talked to when I talked to you know.

David Horsager: pastoral leaders or ministry leaders is especially churches are it’s it’s almost it’s the stewardship thing it’s like it’s used one in many cases, one day a week or a few hours.

David Horsager: Basically, a week and we get these build big beautiful buildings that could actually be reaching people and touching people in so many other ways if we thought entrepreneurial Lee or at least differently.

Mark Batterson: yeah absolutely and you know, there are ways of doing church that no one’s thought of that’s kind of what gets me up in the morning keeps me up at night, and I would say the same thing in any industry, I mean come on netflix walk walk into blockbuster and and offer to.

Mark Batterson: To be sold and blockbuster turns down the $50 million offer of what is now 120 $5 billion company, they were stuck in the past, instead of thinking forward, and so, whatever it is, from business to.

Mark Batterson: To nonprofit I think what got us here the course isn’t necessarily going to get us where we need to go next, and if if the coven crisis has taught us anything, it might be that that the game is kind of changing right under our feet in 1000 different ways.

David Horsager: So how are you innovating these days, how are you.

David Horsager: You know what are you thinking now like what’s the even what’s the big dream now.

Mark Batterson: yeah well there’s been a shift in terms of philosophy and priority that we’ve realized that in the world that I live in it’s very easy to.

Mark Batterson: Go to church check a box and check out Monday to Friday, but but it’s got to be a daily thing you know whether you call it when the day or the daily edge David.

Mark Batterson: Either way, I yesterday’s history tomorrow’s mystery you really have to learn to win the day and so we’re kind of changing the way that we approach things and helping people perhaps the way I would say it is be less codependent on a pastor.

Mark Batterson: And a little bit more intrinsic motivation and the ability to practice certain daily habits that will help them grow spiritually and, of course, that has a huge emotional intellectual and relational payoff.

David Horsager: Well, we might come back to the circle maker, because I was so when we’ve been so impacted by it, but let’s let’s talk about when the day a little bit here.

David Horsager: what’s first of all, why did you write this one, I mean 20 books New York you’re hitting striking a chord it’s not like people that write a bunch of books and don’t I mean New York Times bestseller that is not easy so but tell us about this one, why this one, why now.

Mark Batterson: Well, whatever goal you’re going after yet you have to reverse engineer it into daily habits and so we’re gonna ride this bike ride August 28.

Mark Batterson: Well, we better be reverse engineering and have a have a training plan and we need to know how many miles we’re going to cover to kind of prepare ourselves for that moment, and so.

Mark Batterson: A few years ago and I don’t want to sound like a ultra marathon athlete because I am not, but I did run one marathon.

Mark Batterson: And the only way you do it is by doing 72 training runs that cover 475 miles, then, and only then, are you able to accomplish that goal, so what I wanted to do.

Mark Batterson: Was go ahead and identified the lag measures that you want, but you, you have to reverse engineer identified those lead measures.

Mark Batterson: And they’re really put them into practice and so came up with seven habits, to help you stress less and accomplish more and whatever it is, is going to happen one day at a time.

David Horsager: This is great, you know 75 75% of New York resolutions new New York also.

David Horsager: By the way, new year’s resolutions fail.

David Horsager: In the first month, what are we doing about that.

Mark Batterson: yeah we get overwhelmed when you think in those long timelines I love asking the question can you do it for a day.

Mark Batterson: David, no one has ever said no to that whether you’re trying to break a habit or make a habit anybody can do anything for a day.

Mark Batterson: And it’s really about winning streaks and losing streaks I mean very few people their lives it’s, not a single mistake it’s allowing that mistake to be repeated and become a bad habit and then you have to of course flip that coin and you’ve got to figure out how to.

Mark Batterson: get those small wins, and then you start getting a winning streak and guess what in fact I would even throw this out there anybody who’s ever been through a.

Mark Batterson: They can tell you how many days they’ve been sober yeah it’s this idea is, if you want every day to count, you have to count the days, in fact, do we have time for kind of a fun quick story.

David Horsager: let’s do it.

Mark Batterson: A couple of years ago I did a talk for buzz Williams Virginia tech at the time is now that Texas a&m basketball coach but.

Mark Batterson: They make it to the sweet 16 they’re playing Duke i’ve known buzz for a long time, he said, come and talk to the team, and so I gave a talk it didn’t help, they still lost to do my apologies, but.

Mark Batterson: i’ll never forget, something that buzz said he told the team that it was day 1811 as the coach of Virginia tech.

Mark Batterson: Okay, David everybody who’s listening to this podcast right now how many of you can name the the exact number of days that you have been in your current employment.

Mark Batterson: It was so impressive to me that here is someone who is so conscientious about making every day count.

Mark Batterson: That he counts the days, and so I think you know part of what I want to try to accomplish is you got to live in a tight compartments you got to live like it’s the first day and last day of your life and part of that.

Mark Batterson: A wise writer of wisdom literature, the Psalms just said number your days it’s this idea of counting the days, so that you make those days count.

David Horsager: I love it, you know you talk about in the book the breaking.

David Horsager: The best way to break a habit tell me about that.

Mark Batterson: yeah.

David Horsager: Is that’s the problem like yeah.

David Horsager: We we want to have i’ll just tell you one time, I said to an audience I said how many of you would like to have a new habit, how many I want to have and i’m saying you know.

David Horsager: You know all the audience went up all their hands went up right, and then I said Okay, how many of you have ever you all want to how many have you ever actually broken or started a new habit, like last year, you know 20 pounds or more.

David Horsager: quit smoking, whatever it is, some reasonable habit like 6% everybody wants to.

Mark Batterson: yeah but.

David Horsager: almost nobody does.

David Horsager: How, how do you do it.

Mark Batterson: Well, the idea of habit stalking is become really, really popular the idea of coupling.

Mark Batterson: A harder habit to cultivate with with one that comes more, naturally, but I would I like this idea of habit switching that you, you take something.

Mark Batterson: A bad habit let’s call it complaining i’m sure there isn’t anybody listening to this podcast who complains but I know some people.

Mark Batterson: Who, they can complain about just about anything they’re just it’s masterful their ability to find something and i’m having a little bit of fun.

Mark Batterson: You have to in this is habit number one in the book, you have to flip the script how well.

Mark Batterson: I can turn a complainer into someone who is a very different person someone who’s grateful for almost everything almost all the time how.

Mark Batterson: gratitude journal it’s not complicated, you have to train that ridiculous activating system at the base of the brainstem which determines what we notice and goes unnoticed.

Mark Batterson: To look for things that you’re grateful for, and you have to write it down it’s the generation effect in psychology that if you write it down, you have a better memory, for it, you do that.

Mark Batterson: 30 days 40 days hundred days I don’t care, who you are I don’t care how ingrained that complaining habit is, I think we can flip that script if we do it enough days in a row.

David Horsager: I love that idea for two reasons, but.

David Horsager: One of our studies, found the most repelling traits and people you could name them right arrogance, all these different things right, but the number one most magnetic trait in individuals, maybe a smile right now oh empathy right oh number one most magnetic trading individuals gratitude.

David Horsager: um people love to be around those that are grateful.

David Horsager: And by the way, as we know, grateful people don’t tend to like almost all the negative.

David Horsager: skyway grateful people don’t tend to be entitled, they don’t make complainer’s they don’t tend to be you know and they don’t even smell bad right so grateful people I mean they are, they are magnetic.

David Horsager: And then that’s genuinely.

Mark Batterson: Grateful yeah you know what David that that is fascinating and this may be a little bit of a rabbit trail, but I think it’s worth it, you know in Judaism an Orthodox Jew would pronounce 100 blessings a day.

Mark Batterson: hmm it in the tall mood, which is a commentary on the Old Testament it says that.

Mark Batterson: If you fail to give thanks to God for a blessing it’s as if you have stolen it from him.

Mark Batterson: And so, this idea that.

Mark Batterson: Some of us are guilty of grand larceny you know, or at least petty petty shoplifting.

Mark Batterson: it’s this idea of giving thanks for absolutely everything, so my wife and I live by a little moniker little mantra flip the blessing.

Mark Batterson: So Whenever someone does something for us that we consider a blessing, we always look for a way to flip that that similar blessing for someone else and sometimes it’s in very, very small ways.

David Horsager: what’s it look like.


Mark Batterson: i’m afraid to share this example, but it’s the one that.

Mark Batterson: Is the most pronounced in my life, our first years of church we moved into the movie theaters that Union station, but we didn’t have lights to illuminate that theater and i’ll never forget.

Mark Batterson: Someone gave us a $5,000 gift, it was a game changer at the time, our income was $2,000 a month as a church.

Mark Batterson: And that $5,000 gift I just it impacted us in a profound way I happen to sit on a charitable trust, where we do a lot of $5,000 gifts I happen to, we have to give a lot of $5,000 gifts as a church to clauses that we care about why, because every time we do it i’m flipping the blessing.

Mark Batterson: From what was given to us way back in 1996 and so but I.

Mark Batterson: i’m sorry, but if you give me a gift there’s also a good chance it’s going to get really gifted.

Mark Batterson: Because.

Mark Batterson: To me it’s more fun to get it, and then flip it and so most of my most of the gift cards that come my way end up in the hands of my children they love it.

Mark Batterson: that’s a good gift.

David Horsager: I love it so let’s uh let’s jump down here a little bit you, you did talk about the kindness distinction between minutes and moments.

Mark Batterson: yeah.

David Horsager: Tell me about it.

Mark Batterson: yeah time is measured in minutes life is measured in moments and it’s I love this, there are two words in the Greek language for time, one is kronos, which is where we get chronology.

Mark Batterson: it’s clock time and you and I both care about manage you know if you don’t manage your calendar your calendar will control you and so.

Mark Batterson: You know I believe in time management, no doubt, but the other word is kairos and it can be interpreted time or opportunity and David, this is kind of the the sixth sense it’s the the soft skills of leadership it’s recognizing.

Mark Batterson: Well, maybe the best way to say it is instead of just counting the actual cost it’s counting the opportunity costs, which is a.

Mark Batterson: Which is a much harder thing to do, but it’s the ability to read a situation or read another person and recognize.

Mark Batterson: Okay here’s a teachable moment if you’re a parent or here is an opportunity to take a risk if you’re in business and so that ability to identify those moments is huge and and.

Mark Batterson: What I want to do is help people not not just live a long life I would love to blow out 100 candles someday David I you know i’d love to live to 100 i’m calling me crazy.

Mark Batterson: But I really want to make sure that the moments add up to more than a few hours or a few days, because that that is where life becomes meaningful.

David Horsager: With that you do talk about time management, you have some tips on time management, or at least some thoughts on time management, you talk about even you don’t find time you make it but.

David Horsager: tell us how does that affect us we’re leaders around the world, we got, we have to deal in in this framework of time and people, and we want to.

David Horsager: mix it the right way and and do our call to leadership out facing, and we want to do our call the leadership in facing you know, to the family, what do you do.

Mark Batterson: yeah I would throw out just a couple of very practical tips and.

Mark Batterson: Some of these are hard lessons learned, I mean, for example, you have to establish boundaries why.

Mark Batterson: Because saying yes to one thing is saying no to something else, and so it goes back to this idea of I want to be famous in my home, I made a decision years ago that I would only do seven overnight speaking trips a year.

Mark Batterson: Why, because I was doing a lot more than that, and my family was getting not the best of me they were getting the leftovers, and so you have to make some of those hard decisions, but then, when it comes to kind of the the pragmatics.

Mark Batterson: let’s have a little bit of fun i’ll throw this out there because it’s one of my favorite studies, a NASA study found that a 26 minute nap increases productivity 34%.

Mark Batterson: wow.

David Horsager: And by the way, there’s a lot of people like to hear that.

Mark Batterson: yeah right.

David Horsager: You a napper do.

Mark Batterson: I am.

Mark Batterson: I am, and so, if I 90% of my creativity happens before noon not that’s my corona type i’m a morning person.

Mark Batterson: But if I take a nap I get to windows of creativity and so part of time management is kind of self knowledge of understanding the way that you’re wired and even when to do what tasks and so.

Mark Batterson: I will routine really quick like I mean, I want to come back to any tips, you have, but this is interesting for a lot of people, you know.

David Horsager: We talked about the importance of sleep and eating right exercising drinking water and source of strength if we’re gonna you know be great leaders it’s it starts a lot of times with self leadership.

David Horsager: yeah but tell us you’re just you know every routine is different, but what have you found for yourself.

David Horsager: Because you have a massive responsibility yeah.


Mark Batterson: You know I don’t have different seasons and so in a writing season my routines are going to look a little bit different i’m going to set my alarm clock earlier in the morning.

Mark Batterson: i’ll build in some nap time now i’m feeling like i’m feeling a little childish, but I make no apologies for it.

Mark Batterson: i’ll have our teaching team carry a little bit more of the load I don’t take outside appointments beyond kind of our immediate context of our staff and there’s just no other way for me to write a book and so.

Mark Batterson: yeah I mean that’s what a writing season, you know, I have a start date I have an end date because of parkinson’s law if you have two weeks it’ll take two weeks, if you have two months it’ll take two months.

Mark Batterson: And so I have just kind of Jerry rigged my world in a way that I basically start on my birthday November 5.

Mark Batterson: I finished a book on super bowl Sunday, which is the first Sunday in February, and that gives me three months and it, it is the winter months by intention, because i’m i’m less inclined to be outside.

Mark Batterson: And I actually don’t mind getting up when it’s dark I feel like i’m beating the sunrise and it kind of gives me a jump on today.

David Horsager: So what time is that what time the on the writing months what time is that.

Mark Batterson: Well, it has a five in front of it we just got a puppy dog that.

Mark Batterson: totally destroyed our routine and rhythm and so now i’m walking her dog in the morning, which doesn’t which has given me a little bit later start.

Mark Batterson: But boy she’s cute so it’s worth it yeah.

David Horsager: So you have the five in front of it for.

David Horsager: Writing time and you write tell when and then, when you do your regular these ship stuff let’s take.

David Horsager: let’s just take January 10 on January 10 you know or November 27th we’ll start there you know what what was the writing he got up at this time, you started writing you what did what’s it just a quick rhythm of life for you in those.

David Horsager: In that phase.

Mark Batterson: Absolutely, I should just add a usually do a two day or three day writing retreat at the beginning of that season.

Mark Batterson: To kind of frame out my thoughts and then a two or three day to kind of close it out, but a normal day I it wouldn’t be uncommon for me to write from six in the morning till six at night and I live four blocks, from where I work, so I save commute time i’m home and five minutes so.

Mark Batterson: I try to be pretty religious about getting home at six o’clock and and then a nap kind of built in there in between and and sometimes it’s a nap but I know myself well enough sometimes it’s a it’s a five K it’s a 3.1 mile run, which is about a half hour.

Mark Batterson: or sometimes if I need a quick Joel it’s 20 push ups, and so I find or let’s be honest, I work right above our coffee House so sometimes it’s a second latte with two shots.

David Horsager: So that now now how is that different right now so you’re back in your off the writing season you’re back into the full on leadership kind of role what what’s that look like.

Mark Batterson: Well then, I have meeting days, where I stack meetings wall to wall because I want to be in meeting mode and then I have studied days, where you know much of what I do is is communicate and.

Mark Batterson: And one little.

Mark Batterson: kind of tip or trick David that has helped me.

Mark Batterson: You and I both believe in the importance of one on one with other people and investing in other people.

Mark Batterson: But I think leaders, also have to do the math and so i’m cognizant of the fact that if I take the number of people who attend our church times a 30 minute message.

Mark Batterson: It now adds up to about eight months of time, and so I better put aside 2025 sometimes 30 hours to prepare.

Mark Batterson: That one message, because i’ve got thousands of people who are giving me 30 minutes of their time, and so I tried to do the math.

Mark Batterson: With the different things that I do and it kind of helps me keep on task and part because i’m a people pleaser so it’s hard for me to say no to anybody for anything.

Mark Batterson: And so that’s kind of part of my process of trying to figure out how to spend my time so meeting days study days days that.

Mark Batterson: Maybe are more visionary and on those days here’s a little formula employ a change of pace, plus change of place equals change of perspective, and so I might go over to the national gallery of art, which is a few blocks for me.

Mark Batterson: I may walk the national mall but I need a change of place, and then I also need a change of pace and that kind of helps me get fresh perspective on some of the problems we’re trying to solve, and some of the goals that we’re trying to accomplish.

David Horsager: So many leaders have said this, you know that the, the key to as far as keeping learning reading and.

David Horsager: Travel you get your travel you get perspective so that can be outside your door, obviously, but it’s also I mean there’s something happen if you if you’re.

David Horsager: You know from Minnesota and you go to Bangkok and Dubai and Norway right or are you gonna kill me it’s like there’s some learning that happens that can’t happen almost without the experience so.

David Horsager: Whether that’s.

David Horsager: To the smithsonian where you are across the street or whether that’s you know own in nature.

Mark Batterson: And and David, can I just add one thing, because it can be a staycation you know it, it I occasionally do a silent retreat.

Mark Batterson: Where I turn off my phone I get rid of the white noise and I tried to do some what audiologist would call ear cleansing right because we have we’re constantly bombarded by.

Mark Batterson: News and fake news news in algorithms that are designed to keep us in our ECHO chambers and and kind of 100 other things, so I think a silent retreat, you can stay right where you are just turn off your phone and it’s a change of pace.

David Horsager: So you don’t have kids and.

David Horsager: Yes, right.

David Horsager: yeah so I mean.

David Horsager: i’m just a firm that I think I said it somewhere, but I don’t think i’ve said on the podcast you know for me back in 1999 we started our first business I had been in a.

David Horsager: director of youth and family organization before that, but.

David Horsager: When I I had this time things were going well, I was speaking 100 times a year, or whatever, and for me I didn’t have the limit, like you, had I was felt like that’s what i’m supposed to be doing.

David Horsager: But I had this time early on and I went away to a hermitage actually not far less than an hour from our place.

David Horsager: And you know got away a couple days and I didn’t you know I had this quiet, time is a neat place you don’t see anybody, they give you this.

David Horsager: Fresh bread cheese and apple like this basket of delicious foods, you know you don’t see anybody go and you’re by yourself and.

David Horsager: And all this and you can go for walks beautiful nature out there and everything but I came back from that and I was just clear on one thing, and it was just getting rid of the noise.

David Horsager: i’m supposed to go toward my graduate work and it’s supposed to be on trust.

David Horsager: And so, unlike a lot of people that go through the Grad work and then by the end of their thesis at the thesis like what am I going to do a thesis on.

David Horsager: Every paper ever wrote up until even the end was all around you know trust the leadership of that but I don’t know what happened exactly can’t explain it, but I knew after that time away exactly what I was supposed to do.

Mark Batterson: isn’t that interesting I bet there are a lot of people who right now are googling hermitage.

David Horsager: There you go.


David Horsager: So this is this is fantastic tell us about this this equation in your in this most recent book when the day deliberate practice plus deliver desirable difficulty equals durable learning.

Mark Batterson: yeah you know i’m pulling those ideas from a few different sources and they’ll sound familiar to a lot of listeners deliberate practice, of course, is from Anders Ericsson who the brilliant.

Mark Batterson: psychologists who kind of coined the 10,000 hour rule, it was popularized by Malcolm gladwell but you know, he says there’s naive.

Mark Batterson: practice and deliberate practice and there’s a big difference if you if you play music or play sports, you know what i’m talking about there’s there’s a mindless way of doing things that actually will turn into bad habits.

Mark Batterson: And, and then desirable difficulty That to me is fascinating because David I define my job as a pastor or as a spiritual coach this way.

Mark Batterson: My job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, and so I want to get people out of a comfort zone into a growth mindset.

Mark Batterson: And, and part of that is harder is better it just is look back at your life, what are the the moments that you cherish.

Mark Batterson: It well one of them is coming up for us it’s going to be that hundred mile bike ride our clods are going to be screaming at us and say what in the world were you thinking.

Mark Batterson: But it’s going to be an awesome moment because it’s going to be painful because it’s going to be hard because it’s going to push us, and so I think.

Mark Batterson: If it’s too easy we get bored if it’s too hard, we quit and so there’s this idea of J md just manageable difficulty which I love and it’s kind of that goldilocks zone of where we need to be and then that’s what results in that durable learning.

David Horsager: there’s so much more we could cover here you I can’t agree more that one thing i’m getting pushed on right now so i’ve been.

David Horsager: athletic coach or I guess a fitness coach and I did this, when I was really losing the weight is like push yourself until you’re sore doesn’t matter what you do push yourself into because if you do that, instead of just i’m.

David Horsager: Like I would get on the elliptical, which is good.

David Horsager: They you know she said, if you push it off till you’re sore that works for 48 hours, and that will help you that, because your muscles have to.

David Horsager: break down and build back up bigger and that will help you so much more and i’ve learned.

David Horsager: No matter what I do that’s like hit training, too, but it’s just like you can do it shorter, but if you just do push ups.

David Horsager: And do them again do another set doing those till you’re sore to set up, so you can’t do them anymore like pushing to that point all sudden you get stronger and turns out it’s a lot easier to stay healthy and other ways to but interesting yeah desirable difficulty.

Mark Batterson: Well, I think that’s it’s fascinating the according to the law of requisite variety.

Mark Batterson: If you do the same exercise over and over again, the same way it loses effectiveness, because your muscles adapt to it and so really what trainers do is They confuse your muscles.

Mark Batterson: And I think that that is so critical when it comes to self leadership and not just physically, but I found that to be true spiritually.

Mark Batterson: well.

Mark Batterson: Every year, well my most prized possession is a 1934 Thompson chain reference Bible that belong to my grandfather elmer Johnson, who, by the way, happened to be the first municipal judge of fridley Minnesota.

Mark Batterson: wow taught at northwestern taught at the University of Minnesota.

David Horsager: first place we lived in Minnesota was friendly Minnesota the base.

David Horsager: of an 86 year old lady Clara Miller.

David Horsager: wow no windows no bathroom no kitchen black mold on the walls.

David Horsager: that’s where, at least when I started.

David Horsager: It back in, as we have to tell our kids back in the 1900s when we started our first business.

Mark Batterson: Yes.

David Horsager: Come on, well leave Minnesota love it, you know.

Mark Batterson: We might have cross paths back.

Mark Batterson: So I want to every year what i’m getting at I want to have enough bibles to leave for my kids and grandkids.

Mark Batterson: Because I love seeing what he underlined and what he wrote in the margin, but the other thing I do is I choose a different translation.

Mark Batterson: Because it makes my synopsis fire in a little bit different way, so it almost kind of confuses maybe the version that i’ve memorized I want to hear it in a different way, so that it produces some different thoughts and so, and you know just beyond beyond the Bible.

Mark Batterson: Ivan Pavlov said, if you want to new ideas read old books.

Mark Batterson: And so you know it’s it’s reading anything and everything that will just make you think in slightly different ways, and I might add.

Mark Batterson: Reading some things that you should read some books that you don’t completely agree with when you’re done.

Mark Batterson: Otherwise you fall into this binary thinking, but I live by this little maxim that truth is found in the tension of opposites true wisdom has two sides and so we’ve got to get better.

Mark Batterson: As a culture and get better as leaders at looking things from different angles and and that’s coming from someone who has.

Mark Batterson: Hundreds of hill staffers and dozens of members of Congress and cabinet members.

Mark Batterson: who attend our church and we are bipartisan we have people across the aisles, and so what we’re trying to do is sort of stand in that gap.

Mark Batterson: And we’ve got to be able to dialogue back and forth, and I think when you do that, you come up with you realize it’s not just a or B David it’s sometimes see.

David Horsager: We need it so much right now and we talked about building trust across you don’t have to like people to trust them and to build trust right this.

David Horsager: This whole idea, there was an article this week from a PhD from a bio that wrote basically oh man I wish I had in front of it, we can put in the show notes, but basically seeing both sides right yes.

David Horsager: And we if we could do more, that we could actually have a conversation see people as people there’s a whole lot of research on how what one reason trust has gone down and capital hills.

David Horsager: In the old days they’d ride the train all the way back to California together the Democrat or republican they would spend time together they go for a beer together at night.

David Horsager: They never see they don’t see each other as humans now because they never spend time together they come they battle on the House floor like senate floor they go back they don’t see each other and there’s a host of other reasons, as you know, i’ve.

David Horsager: worked with a group in Congress trying to build trust across Republicans and democrats across senators and representatives and it’s great work today, I mean it’s not great work it’s when I say great I mean like i’m holding heaviness right.

David Horsager: Yes, oh yeah.

David Horsager: Work but it’s it’s even more so because of a lot of the ways we’re.

David Horsager: systemized against trust on the Hill and in our government and there’s there’s a whole lot more to say about that.

David Horsager: yeah.

Mark Batterson: Well, David on.

Mark Batterson: on behalf of everybody, listening to this podcast keep doing that.

David Horsager: Well, I often one time I flew back from Congress, I was in front of this group.

David Horsager: You know, and speaking and the CEO introduced me said well he’s he spoken to Congress before and, obviously, is not very good.

David Horsager: Clearly.

David Horsager: it’s not making a difference may, at least from what we know so.

David Horsager: Anyway, we keep on we keep on keeping on.

David Horsager: there’s so much more to the book when the day there’s so much more of the others, maybe one more thought on when the day here I want you to just touch on the grand gesture, and what that means.

Mark Batterson: it’s it’s one of my favorite parts of the book, you know, there is a guy cal Newport who wrote a wonderful book called deep work and and I think that’s where I first stumbled across the idea.

Mark Batterson: But but let’s be honest, it grand gesture is nothing new it’s as old as Noah building a very big boat.

Mark Batterson: it’s this idea that when it comes to life goals you do have to reverse engineer them into daily habits into small wins, but there are moments David when you’ve got to.

Mark Batterson: Go big or go home, you have to make a dramatic decision I won’t ruin the book but it’s one of my favorite stories about.

Mark Batterson: If you wondered how we got all of these skyscrapers How did the world gets so tall I would credit, the inventor of the elevator safety break who pulled off one of the greatest sales pitches ever in the.

Mark Batterson: world’s fair His name was aleister Otis and now i’ve kind of I have shared a little bit, but i’ll say that cutting the rope was a key part of his stunt.

Mark Batterson: In.

David Horsager: Those one of the principles in the book.

Mark Batterson: Yes, and.

Mark Batterson: Yet the.

David Horsager: Seven habits.

Mark Batterson: yep habit number five and we’ve got to find ways to personally.

Mark Batterson: To create our own grand gestures to two simple examples, for me, when I was 19 I walked into the admissions office at the University of Chicago.

Mark Batterson: And I said, you can have your scholarship back, and it was a defining moment for me, I had a full ride scholarship I was playing basketball.

Mark Batterson: On paper, it was perfect, but I felt like there was something else for me to pursue and giving up that scholarship it was a grand gesture that not everybody agreed with.

Mark Batterson: But it was a it was a turning point packing all of our belongings into a 15 foot hall yeah 15 foot U haul and moving to Washington DC with no place to live and no guaranteed salary was a.

Mark Batterson: grand gesture, and so, and I would say, using my 35th birthday, to set a book deadline was a grand gesture So what is it that you need to self imposed, so to speak, what is that commitment device that it’s going to help you go after that goal, that is in your heart.

David Horsager: A grand just, even though I really this is so critical I just think of so many things, for me, you know where where the little things, make the big difference.

Mark Batterson: No doubt about it.

David Horsager: But the big gesture for me.

David Horsager: Yet funny one for you back when I mean I didn’t have much, then you know, and I said I knew I had to lose the weight.

David Horsager: I told the staff i’d give 20 $500 to eat if I wasn’t at my high school weight by May 1 for me that was a little grand gesture to say I am I was like what are you talking about.

David Horsager: But that planting in the standard saying i’m going to give you 20 $500 and, of course, what do they start doing bringing in donuts but you know, but I.

David Horsager: wanted to.

David Horsager: I had to make a mark out loud that i’m committed to this right oh you something big.

David Horsager: You know let’s go let’s a little fun play on words here but go back full circle to circle maker for two because everybody should get when the day I just your work is fantastic inspiring inspiring it’s actionable.

David Horsager: And you know what it’s true, and so you can look up mark batson with a B bateson and if you if you don’t know how many of you do when the day is his new book we’ve got to go back to a couple ideas here.

David Horsager: In the circle maker.

David Horsager: To highlighted sentences one May you die young at a ripe old age.

Mark Batterson: yeah.

David Horsager: I could explain it.

David Horsager: i’ve read it and underlined it but.

David Horsager: yeah let’s have you do it.

Mark Batterson: Oh, I love this word neon honey it’s the retention of youth what qualities into adulthood don’t you love I love someone who is young, who is maybe wise beyond their years.

Mark Batterson: But I love someone who is old, who has this playful spirit, who has this holy curiosity about life, who, who knows that they are not finished and so it’s this idea of.

Mark Batterson: yeah of retaining those youthful qualities and and I talked about it, some in when the day to with wind, the clock this we it would be a whole nother podcast on Ellen Langer and her work with mindfulness and the way that well one thing, do you know how a doctor ascertain your age.

Mark Batterson: The way everybody else by.

Mark Batterson: Asked asking your birth date there’s no other way for them to know, and if you don’t believe that different people age at different rates, you have not been to a class reunion.

Mark Batterson: And so there is a way, I think, to stay young and part of it, David is vision, without a vision, the people perish but with a vision you’re never past your Prime it’s something it almost acts as a preservative that kind of keeps us young, because we have something that we’re going after.

David Horsager: I think one of one of the parts in the book that I loved about that idea, by the way, was this this how we’ve even statistically lost the ability to dream we start as kids were dreaming about this dreaming about that dream and there’s a lot of.

David Horsager: Data on how we stop learning as much once we go to a public education system in some ways, but.

David Horsager: What I just started thinking about what about dream my dad it was similar to when your stories in the book and i’m so grateful for him a lot of my trust really work comes.

David Horsager: Not from the research but living under a great leader on a farm going up, but I was with him recently 91 runs a you know they have I don’t know 1500 acres 1200 or something like that.

David Horsager: But I looked at this this new beautiful grove he planted all these fruit and flowering trees, it was a it’s about a half mile.

David Horsager: or a mile from our House so it’s a whole it’s a different property it’s across a tar road and whatever but it’s part of their land, I said well you know yeah what we kind of thinking here dead he’s an all he said was somebody will enjoy it.

David Horsager: Some somebody will enjoy this.

David Horsager: and

David Horsager: I just thought yeah he’s not thinking about himself at all they’re not going to be, you know, even if he gets the century, which I think he will.

David Horsager: he’s not going to see the fruit of that Labor so so that gets us to the at least my last question from the book and then I got to ask you a quick fire questions, a close, but the think long idea yeah so tell me about that that’s that’s.

David Horsager: kind of that idea of my dad right.

Mark Batterson: It really is in fact the book revolves around this true legend about honing the circle maker, who draws a circle.

Mark Batterson: kneels in that circle and said sovereign Lord I swear before your name that I will not leave this circle until you send.

Mark Batterson: Rain it’s a prayer that saved a generation, while they were in a devastating drought, but there’s a second story that I share in the book that.

Mark Batterson: I might like it just as much that he’s walking by someone planting a care of tree that takes 70 years to mature and.

Mark Batterson: says why why Why are you doing that you’re not going to see you’re not going to enjoy the fruit of the tree and he said well my parents planted trees for me and i’m planting them.

Mark Batterson: For my grandchildren and so it’s this mindset of the 200 year present I write about it a little bit in in when the day ELISE bolding it’s this idea that.

Mark Batterson: we’ve got it, you know someone was born 100 years ago and then their babies being born today that will live to 100 so we kind of live in this 200 year present and we’ve got to.

Mark Batterson: Think about that third and fourth generation, we think, right here, right now, but but it’s always about the third and fourth generation, and so, if you want to do something that’s big you’re gonna have to think long.

Mark Batterson: And I think you have to have some life goals David that are going to take a lifetime to accomplish and again that’s kind of what keeps us young and.

Mark Batterson: By the way, on that note, you know i’ve got 100 life goals i’ve got seven steps to setting life goals and that’s free to anybody who wants it.

Mark Batterson: Could I share my website, just in case.

David Horsager: you’re gonna want us.

David Horsager: let’s do that right now.

David Horsager: And we’ll put it all in the show notes trusted leader show.com but.

Mark Batterson: yeah.

David Horsager: Where can we find you where’s the best place let’s let’s stop right now to do it.

Mark Batterson: yeah mark Patterson calm and there’s nothing that cost anything on that site it’s all my goal David has to add value and, if I can add value then that puts a smile on my face and so.

Mark Batterson: i’m a big believer in life goals you want to accomplish 100% of the goals you don’t set and then I share seven steps to setting those life goals and so folks can find it right there.

David Horsager: Perfect mark patterson.com we’ll put that in the show notes.

David Horsager: Well, here we go, we gotta we gotta land this plane, this has been a treat we could have three more of these probably five more and I can’t wait to be biking next to you until I need to catch my breath and grab a glass of water and August, but um let’s.

David Horsager: let’s go couple of our quickfire questions not going to go through all of them today, but a favorite book or resource right now.

Mark Batterson: Oh, my okay right right now.

Mark Batterson: Upstream is a book that i’m reading right right now I think well since you’re in Minnesota it’s the headwaters of the Mississippi river right.

Mark Batterson: By the time it gets to New Orleans wow there’s a lot of power there’s a lot of water rushing into the Gulf, but it always starts upstream, and I think that’s true with habits it’s true with character.

Mark Batterson: I bet you would even say it’s true with trust you know it’s this idea of going upstream.

David Horsager: love it do you have a favorite I don’t know APP or gadget or.

David Horsager: Maybe it is a productivity tip again but.

Mark Batterson: yeah I really like time hop i’m a pretty future oriented person, but time hop reminds me, you know shows me pictures from a year to 10 years ago and I kind of like that it keeps me grounded and reminds me to keep evolving my fashion as well.

David Horsager: All right, one two questions left.

David Horsager: one.

David Horsager: going to go to this one one big hope for the future, yet maybe it’s one of your top maybe 20 or hundred goals but what’s it what’s your big hope big bucket list big hope for the future that you’re thinking about right now.

Mark Batterson: wow if we’re talking go big or go home.

Mark Batterson: I just I really want our church to demonstrate what it looks like to be a multicultural Community this idea that Dr King talked about it being a beloved community.

Mark Batterson: And I happen to believe that church ought to be the most diverse place on the planet and the most creative place on the planet.

Mark Batterson: And those are two sides of the same coin, so if you’re if you’re asking me what i’m hoping for, I really would love for us to demonstrate what it looks like to have our differences, not divide us, but be something that we celebrate and.

Mark Batterson: And we’re working hard towards that and and finding our way forward.

David Horsager: I gotta jump in here, how do you do it, you know every people are working, whether it’s companies or.

David Horsager: You know, all kinds of organization churches were trying to create the beauty of healthy diversity and inclusion and equity, how are you doing it, people said to me, the most the least diverse day of the of the week is Sundays at 11am right or at least the first time, how do you do it.

Mark Batterson: yeah no easy answer is, you know.

Mark Batterson: You have to be on defendable For starters, I think you have to put pride on the altar.

Mark Batterson: I think you have to stay humble and stay hungry and those sound like nice maxim but that’s a mindset it’s a mindset and I would add one more thing to the mix.

Mark Batterson: And this is something that my mentor taught me David two kinds of people in the world, the first kind of person walks into a room and they’re thinking here, I am.

Mark Batterson: They see themselves as the solution, they they their ego barely fits through the door it’s all about me myself and I second kind of person.

Mark Batterson: There you are it’s all about everybody else it’s all about adding value it’s not going to happen until we have this there you are kind of mindset and.

Mark Batterson: And so i’m grateful for a mentor who taught me that a few years ago and that’s how I try to approach live I think if if we keep checking our ego at the door some really good things can happen.

David Horsager: there’s so much more.

David Horsager: Thanks mark it’s.

David Horsager: been fun.

David Horsager: can’t wait to see, and maybe i’ll see it before then, but the final question it’s the trusted leader show we asked this one to everybody who’s a leader you trust and why.

Mark Batterson: um I would probably go right back to that mentor of mine he’s a former college President he’s a former pastor worked on Capitol Hill for many years, in fact.

Mark Batterson: helped that national prayer breakfast happen in February, every year, his name’s deke Fo.

Mark Batterson: And he’s someone that is invested in my life immeasurably took me under his wing when I was pestering 19 people 25 years ago and.

Mark Batterson: I love surrounding myself with people who stretch my faith but who also keep me grounded.

Mark Batterson: And people who have been there and done that, and when I feel like panicking or I feel like the world is falling apart, I kind of go back to those elders those people that I trust and Dick faith is one of those people for me.

David Horsager: He is what a what a choice.

David Horsager: I met him see him speak.

David Horsager: You know bandwidth them and and there’s something about people like that just being with them you’re encouraged and inspired and he’s one of those peoples that there you are.

Mark Batterson: There you are.

David Horsager: Mark thanks so much for sharing with trusted leaders in our audience thanks for being my friend and thanks for thanks for this time together that’s the trusted leader show thanks for joining us until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 32: Waldo Waldman on Why Admitting Your Mistakes Strengthens Your Team

In this episode, David sits down with Waldo Waldman, Former Fighter Pilot, Hall of Fame Speaker, Executive Coach, and Author, to discuss why admitting your mistakes strengthens your team.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Waldo’s Bio:
Lt Col Waldo Waldman, MBA is a Hall of Fame leadership keynote speaker, executive coach, and author of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal Bestseller Never Fly Solo. Known as “The Wingman”, he’s an Air Force Academy graduate, combat decorated fighter pilot and expert in resilience, courage, and helping leaders accelerate performance in changing environments. His clients include Marriott, American Express, The Denver Broncos, and Verizon and he’s been featured on CNN, Fox News, and The Harvard Business Review. Visit www.YourWingman.com or connect with him on social media @WaldoWaldman.

Waldo’s Links:
Website: https://yourwingman.com/
“Never Fly Solo” book: https://amzn.to/3yQcgbQ
FREE download of “Never Fly Solo” audiobook: https://yourwingman.com/nfs/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldowaldman/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/waldowaldman
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waldowaldman/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/WingmanF16

Key Quotes:
1. “People want the raw, the real.”
2. “I like to refer to myself as a courage monger.”
3. “A wingman is a trusted partner.”
4. “It starts with you. The inner wingman.”
5. “Admitting your mistakes and showing your humanity and vulnerability is key.”
6. “Leadership starts with the person staring back at you.”
7. “People smell out and feel dissonance.”
8. “Make your friends your mentors and your mentors your friends.”
9. “Part of excellence is service.”
10. “Love is service in action.”
11. “You have to distract yourself from yourself.”
12. “You can’t see the big picture on your own.”
13. “Pain leads to peace.”
14. “We have a responsibility for our team.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Never Fly Solo” by Waldo Waldman: https://amzn.to/3yQcgbQ
FREE download of “Never Fly Solo” audiobook: https://yourwingman.com/nfs/
“How to Win Friends & Influence People” by Dale Carnegie: https://amzn.to/3fVivTh
“The Science of Mind” by Ernest Holmes: https://amzn.to/2R4sLjL

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse auger, we have a special guest today he is a dear friend, he is a New York Times, Wall Street Journal best selling author

David Horsager: He went to the US Air Force Academy. He’s a decorated combat veteran. He’s just an amazing leader.

David Horsager: He, you know, and we’re going to talk about this a little bit, but he’s one of the guys, I would say in our business because he’s speaking, all of them. He’s a Hall of Fame speaker.

David Horsager: He’s a guy that we would say is the same onstage and offstage, and I’m just grateful that he’s friend. Welcome to the show. Lieutenant Colonel Waldo Waldman you’ve got your MBA, you got it all. But you’re a leader of leaders and I just want to say thanks for being on

Waldo Waldman: You got it, David. Great to be here and Happy New Year.

David Horsager: Happy New Year. So there’s a lot of things I could say about you, your family, your life. Nowadays, but give us three things, Waldo, who are you

Waldo Waldman: So,

Waldo Waldman: My background as a fighter pilot is one thing, but I was I was having a little sales call this afternoon and I think, more than ever, people want the raw, the real who you are, the blood, not the muscle and so

Waldo Waldman: Especially during coded when things have changed a lot. You really sit and become more insightful and more more

Waldo Waldman: introspective about who you are. What drives you what you believe in. What’s your what I call you know the true north. Right. What gets you out of bed.

Waldo Waldman: Not necessarily. What keeps you up at night and I like to refer to myself as a courage monger

Waldo Waldman: Not a fear monger because Lord knows we see enough about that I give people courage. I want to give people the courage to take their actions to step out of their comfort zones to ask for help.

Waldo Waldman: To be okay with where they’re at, but not okay with with their complacency. I am a performance expert. I teach people, and in particular.

Waldo Waldman: The most of one wing man, there is a my life myself how to take action, every day and grow.

Waldo Waldman: So, so that’s kind of what it is, as far as, you know, professionally and what I do, but I’m also

Waldo Waldman: A proud father of a little, little wing man named as who turns 10 years old on Sunday. And then my wife Dana, who’s an amazing wingnut so I love family I love. I also love God, but that’s a whole nother story.

David Horsager: You can share any of it here, it’s a safe place. And we know you know trusted leaders, generally they are they, there’s a whole lot beyond their work those that are only focused on work usually aren’t as great at work.

David Horsager: One other thing that I think is really congruent with what you said, you know, we talked about trust, and I know you a lot of what you believe about it but but we talked about how, if you’re doing leadership alone, you’re doing it wrong.

David Horsager: Right. And you talk about being a wing man and what it takes, and what it means. Tell me about that.

Waldo Waldman: So I think a wing man or wing, ma’am.

Waldo Waldman: The ladies do we fly with are the type of people were others feel comfortable coming to for help.

Waldo Waldman: When you think about trust, in a way, man is a trusted partner. That’s what I I coined

Waldo Waldman: 20 years ago when I started working a wingman is a trusted partner business in life and how do you define that trust and you’re an expert in it, David.

Waldo Waldman: Is our do others feel comfortable coming to you for help. Are you an expert are you compassionate empathetic, or you courageous. Are you emulating the same things that you ask other people to do. And as a leader if other people can come to you for help.

Waldo Waldman: And they’re confident that you can help them and not rip their lungs out or kick him in the knees or criticize them, then you’re able to solve problems.

Waldo Waldman: And most companies that we work with are having problems with their people not being able to come to their leaders with their problems and possibly some solutions.

Waldo Waldman: To solve those problems. And that’s the key. How do you solve the problems. How do you get your people to perform and grow and sell future problems. And also, obviously.

Waldo Waldman: Help your clients because if you have a whole company of people

Waldo Waldman: where everyone’s comfortable going to each other for help in solving each other’s problems and you build that culture from the inside out, guess what.

Waldo Waldman: Now your prospects are going to feel confident and coming to you for help because every wing man or wing ma’am on your team is giving a service focus is competent and that’s how great companies flourish from the inside out and build great partners and revenue with their clients.

David Horsager: I want to get to the book in a moment because it really follows this. But before I do, you know that you, you think about this.

David Horsager: I mean, should say the book title New York Times bestseller never fly solo but we see a lot of leaders they have imposter syndrome. I’ve sat next to presidents of companies and presidents of countries and they’re scared to death. They’re going to be found out

David Horsager: They don’t want to share, who they are, what they’re

David Horsager: Really they they’re, they’re just in this, how do you, how do you you’re a leader. How do you show healthy vulnerability. How do you, how do you make an approachable environment where people were your

David Horsager: How do you get willing to ask for help. What do you do with that to some of these people that you know we’re sitting next to that or whether it’s ego or whatever in the way

Waldo Waldman: Right, right. It’s a great point, David.

Waldo Waldman: Number one, and I’m going to share some specifics that I learned as a fighter upon the course that I teach my clients.

Waldo Waldman: Is, is it starts with you what I call the inner wing, then the person staring back at you and you put your flight suit on every morning. Do you trust yourself.

Waldo Waldman: Are you full of baloney. Are you putting in the time to refine your flight plan to learn to pivot to demonstrate empathy and compassion and caring to say I need help, or I don’t know in front of your peers.

Waldo Waldman: To admit your mistakes 15 years ago I worked for a title company in California at the big meeting USA Today.

Waldo Waldman: Came out with an article front page of the paper or be in the business section. They made a horrific sin.

Waldo Waldman: It made the news. It was not good. And guess what people reading it at the at the buffet that morning, and that CEO came up there and said, Listen, we messed up.

Waldo Waldman: I’m sorry we you know we got to make this right but there’s no excuse. She was transparent, you know, look at what what Tylenol did when they had that whole issue Johnson and Johnson. Right. You know, when they admitted them mistake so admitting your mistakes and showing your humanity.

Waldo Waldman: And vulnerability is key. And it’s not to say if you’re always admitting mistakes and always showing vulnerability and messing up. Hey,

Waldo Waldman: Probably not credible probably not working on yourself, you probably need to go back into the hangar and the simulator and start working on your craft and technologies and tools and tech tactics. You got to be competent

Waldo Waldman: However, most leaders get to the position where they are, they are because they’re competent, but now those soft skills are key. I’m gonna share a quick example David

Waldo Waldman: Fighter pilots demonstrate acumen and teamwork and culture and growth through procedures called briefing.

Waldo Waldman: And debriefing right so I’m going to share a little bit about a debriefing what we do at the beginning of a debriefing is number one, we take off our rank.

Waldo Waldman: And our name tags because we don’t want to have our ego I er rank or our personalities are name tags, get in the way of growth, you’re a number. If it’s a four ship. It’s 1234 know Joe Mike Lisa and Sabrina know you are a number, right, and we

Waldo Waldman: Are an on an equal playing field. But the first thing that happens in a debrief, Dave. And this is important for your listeners.

Waldo Waldman: Is we go through the objectives. See if we hit them or not. And then the leader shares his or her mistakes. What did I do wrong. Here’s what I did. You know, I called

Waldo Waldman: Tanks dry or too early. I overachieved my jet. Look at the tapes. Here it shows me calling a kill, left hand turn band at 22,000 feet. The purple wasn’t on I messed up.

Waldo Waldman: Well, I didn’t call out the the emergency airfields. What is that going to do, Dave. For the rest of those teammates those Young Guns may be brand new to the squad and when it comes time for them to share what are they going to do, Dave, you know the answer.

David Horsager: They’re going to share

Waldo Waldman: They’re going to share their mistakes and possibly

Waldo Waldman: And maybe with a bit of reticence, the other mistakes that the leader may have missed. Well, sir, ma’am. You also

Waldo Waldman: Got within five or defeat within that that turn and you broke the bubble. It was it was a standards violation and also

Waldo Waldman: The A, B and C. Well, okay. Now hopefully the wingman, that the young folks on the on the team, or the other folks aren’t calling out too many of those mistakes because once again.

Waldo Waldman: It will interfere with the credibility of that leader, but you want to create that culture and that gloves are off the smoke coming out of nostrils and we go deep. But guess what, when it’s done.

Waldo Waldman: We’re professional, we move on. Salute smartly and grab grab a cup of coffee or a beer and move on with our day.

David Horsager: Creating psychological safety. I mean, people are talking about all over the place. You know, we just I gave a briefing on

David Horsager: Just actually, it’s still on my table. I wasn’t going to show us, but that the trust outlook for the year. This is our annual research, we put out one of the

David Horsager: More significant studies around trust and leadership every year. But there’s there’s a big this this really this research is pointing to this fact that you’re bringing up of of of this tension between vulnerability and accountability.

David Horsager: So it basically I mean in a simple form. We know that some people, the old transparency. Transparency transparency and transparency is trusted

David Horsager: But so is confidentiality and there’s a tension there and you’re kind of talking about to have that how much it’s it’s it’s takes wisdom. It takes effort because

David Horsager: We have to be confidential about some things we as leaders. We have to be transparent about some things, some people are so transparent. I don’t trust impress second on Facebook, for example.

David Horsager: But you know how we have, but we also have to create spaces in our leadership and our teams, you know, whether women, where we can be fully transparent almost the more transparent, you are in that close team, the more trust. Right.

Waldo Waldman: Yeah, and transparency means if you create a standards violation or are an infraction on the culture of integrity accountability service courage, whatever it is.

Waldo Waldman: You have to be so transparent that you’re not going to treat one person differently than the other. If you create

Waldo Waldman: A safety violation or break the standards of a squadron, you will be heard from you will be debriefed we need to do it with tact.

Waldo Waldman: And with empathy and compassion, but also sternly and also with the fact that if you continue to break these violations. We are so transparent in this organization. I am so transparent as a leader that guess what you can lose your wings.

Waldo Waldman: We have fighter pilots who continuously break the rules. I’ve seen great guys get become sloppy complacent.

Waldo Waldman: Committing moral violations in and out of the squad and guess what those wings are gone and you cannot tolerate that. So don’t think transparency and vulnerability is

Waldo Waldman: Is only, you know, just to show you know you know your built nurture relationships. Sometimes you as a leader have to get rid of that relationship or that

Waldo Waldman: That resource that human resource that may be dragging down the culture of an organization, as you know, as well as me, Dave, that you have somebody who’s committing those trust violations and they’re not

Waldo Waldman: Given that feedback and action not taken to them. It’s going to spread like a virus within that organization and we need to maintain those standards and stick to them consistently, not just with certain peers and coworkers as supervisors, but with everyone.

David Horsager: So I remember the first time.

David Horsager: I learned that a little bit. You know, I’m working with this organization and there’s there’s nine directors and a vice president of over them and eight of those directors are fantastic.

David Horsager: The ninth one is a slot.

David Horsager: Terrible on accountable, you know, sloppy lazy everything else.

David Horsager: But who did everybody hate who did these other hate directors hate. They didn’t hate the slot. They hated the the vice president that didn’t deal with. It did, didn’t hold accountability that didn’t

David Horsager: You know, deal with the situation right so it’s it’s interesting as a leader that that balance and absolutely true. So I’m going to jump over and let’s go to my wing man here today. You got a question for us.

David Horsager: Yeah, I was wondering, since you were talking about the importance of, you know, accountability also vulnerability, but be able to create that safe space. What if there’s a leader who maybe it’s their

David Horsager: Board or some group that they’re over and they realize it’s not like a safe space that people aren’t communicating well there you know not being transparent or vulnerable. How does a leader.

David Horsager: create that environment so that other people can feel safe to be able to share to be able to actually help the team be better. Well,

Waldo Waldman: You also want to reward and highlight the person who is sharing their and fractions, who is demonstrating integrity, which doesn’t only mean saying

Waldo Waldman: You know, being honest, it means being honest about being dishonest. We’re all going to make mistakes. We’re going to say things that aren’t

Waldo Waldman: That that may be under the gun and under pressure aren’t true. We may fudge, we may do something that we regret and being able to create an environment where folks admit their mistakes and are not necessarily rewarded but highlighted for being congruent. Let me share a quick story.

Waldo Waldman: I over G to jet. I made a struck structurally damaged a plane when I was flying, not because it was a it was intentional. I was hot dogging

Waldo Waldman: Over G the jet and the traffic pattern broke the 6.67 G love it and knew I committed a safety violation because I was trying to test limit. This was early in my career.

Waldo Waldman: It wasn’t a safety hazard where I was avoiding a bird or an aircraft and I oversee the jet. Now it’s a big deal when you overdo the jet because you have to impound it inspected. It’s has to do with safety.

Waldo Waldman: And so when my commander found out that I did it because I was messing around in the traffic pattern, he chewed me out rip me apart use foul language, man. I was horrified. I had had a perfect record up to that point. And so he made me brief the rest of the squadron.

Waldo Waldman: This was an early 90s. I had an acetate overhead projector with magic markers and all that stuff. Remember, you know, for the, the old farts and on the call. Notice

Waldo Waldman: And I was so embarrassed and my buddy came up to me at lunch and said, Waldo, man. You feel for you, dude. I’m man. How you doing, I said my reputation in a squadron is toast.

Waldo Waldman: My commander hates me. I’m never going to go anywhere here. And he said, you’re probably right, man. He just just brutalized you and he said something that I’ll never forget. He said, Waldo. You know what I would do.

Waldo Waldman: If I over G the jet. By the way, by point three g’s it was hardly anything I had to

Waldo Waldman: Maintain my integrity and turn myself in because I could have punched off the GMAT or nobody would have known it was like a stopwatch, but I knew it wasn’t the right thing to do.

Waldo Waldman: He said, If that were me and I over G to buy point three g’s and punching off the G meter zero that out. And I’m not saying anything because I don’t want to have to go through what you just went through.

Waldo Waldman: And it pissed me off because I knew deep down that instead of creating a culture of accountability and courage and support.

Waldo Waldman: Through my commanders actions. He was in instead creating cowards and people who wouldn’t share their and fraction. So what he could have done. Maybe I’ll ask you and Dave, what do you think he could have done.

Waldo Waldman: To shift the energy in the room with hundred and 80 of my peers. What could he have done to make it different.

David Horsager: I don’t know, maybe if he had shared if he had ever done that or something and kind of build that kind of credibility with them saying like, it’s not like it’s a unique thing like I’ve done this, too.

Waldo Waldman: Yeah, yeah. She has something that he messed up right Dave. Any other thoughts as well. I’m going to come

David Horsager: Well, you know, this is it’s really interesting. I if you can’t miss it. When I think about this with my own kids like if you push them too much. It’s like we’re embarrassed that then you’re almost pushing them to make up to tell a lie. Instead of tell the truth. Right.

David Horsager: The right that thing. I mean this could go all the way to. Did you do your homework. Yep, I’m done. Did you brush your teeth. Yep, I’m done. Because you know they’re going to get

David Horsager: Kind of slaughtered because they didn’t brush their teeth. If that happens, obviously created unsafe environment for you even that little, little idea so

David Horsager: Tell us.

Waldo Waldman: What do you think, oh, so what he could have done and what I seen done with other commands that has to go with that that title company that was mentioned a USA Today story number one did I deserve to be reprimanded and punished guys yes or no.

Waldo Waldman: Yes, I did. You’re absolutely right. David I committed a safety violation and I cost the Air Force $25,000 because that’s what it would cost to fix that jet and do an inspection, plus, plus some if there was indeed cracks in the airframe.

Waldo Waldman: So I needed to be punished. But what if Colonel Star Wars said, hey, Waldo or a team with 10 or Captain Waldman back then. I was gotten messed up. He committed a safety violation over gene and asset and aircraft.

Waldo Waldman: That our taxpayers have paid for. He is grounded until that plan is fixed, that if any one of you do the same thing. You’re going to be grounded to

Waldo Waldman: However, I also want you to know that Catherine Walden turned himself in when he only over G THAT JET by point three g’s

Waldo Waldman: Which probably 99.999% of the thing would wouldn’t have meant anything

Waldo Waldman: He maintained his integrity is accepting the responsibilities for his actions. That’s the type of leader I want my Squadron. That’s the type of fighter pilot. I want to fly with

Waldo Waldman: And that’s the type of action. I want to see every one of you do. And congratulations Captain woman. I appreciate your honesty now finish your briefing. Right.

Waldo Waldman: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, now you’re shifting the culture. Now, I trust Cotto stalwarts judgment and his name is Charles W stallworth the third. He was a butthead I didn’t respect them. He’s in my book and I didn’t appreciate how he made me feel for a year.

Waldo Waldman: And I will not forget and forgive many ways a leader who violates that trust and and diminishes and humiliate somebody else.

Waldo Waldman: And by the way, if it happens more than a few times, you’re out of the squad and you’re out of the F1, the wings. Go away.

Waldo Waldman: But we have to be careful as leaders cutting off the needs of our teammates our co workers, our new hires when they, when they admit their mistakes we need to

Waldo Waldman: We need to nurture them. We need to punish them in some way give feedback movement to another position. Get them remedial training and if worst case scenario will fire them but

Waldo Waldman: We need to coach them up and inspire them because, as General George Patton one said as a leader, you’re always on parade.

Waldo Waldman: And Dan watching you in and out of the office at the Starbucks at the public supermarket in your briefings and you need congruence and consistency and transparency to maintain the high standards that you have as a leader and that your company has as an organization.

David Horsager: And General Patton, if I remember my history. Well, you know what, I would say, I’m going to be the first across the river, not the last, I’m not

David Horsager: Going behind I’m going in front right

Waldo Waldman: I’ll take the bull, he got it.

David Horsager: You got it. So, so let’s jump over to to personal, you know, a lot of leaders they have

David Horsager: You know, when we talk about being trusted leaders, they seem to have some great habits or routines, personally, tell us about some of your, what makes you you’re leading a great company in many cases you’re coaching consulting and advising great leaders around the world and

David Horsager: You know that’s fun to collaborate on and and in our friendship, but how you leading you

Waldo Waldman: So the leadership starts with the person Sam backer I mentioned that before I call it the inner wing man or the inner wing man you know do you trust yourself. You feel competent courageous. Do you feel worthy of the winds that you want.

Waldo Waldman: And many of us have this cognitive dissonance. There’s a disconnect between what we want.

Waldo Waldman: And what we’re even teaching and what we’re representing in our lives and our actions outside of the cockpit away from the teammates out of your uniform

Waldo Waldman: And so I have to have confidence in myself on this call. And when I coach executives and do my program to say I am preaching, because I’m doing the hard work.

Waldo Waldman: I, for example, you know, today I always work on myself. I read something spiritual in the morning. It sets my vector. It’s the context of the day.

Waldo Waldman: You know I ease my mind. I did a meditation. Meditation but 23 minutes today. It’s an odd meditation, the creation sound.

Waldo Waldman: learning new things. I’m getting uncomfortable with this meditation stuff, but I’m learning and I’m becoming more present. So I did the meditation and then I did.

Waldo Waldman: I ran for like 25 minutes and stretched listen to a podcast fed my mind with good positive ideas and nourishment.

Waldo Waldman: And came up with some ideas. I’m like, Wow, now I’m energized right and so

Waldo Waldman: And then I had some oatmeal with some blueberries. You saw me chop it a tab. Before we there are things I wanted to give myself I’m watching my diet. I’m pretty lean. I’m pretty muscular fit but I

Waldo Waldman: I’ve got body by brownie from the holidays. Right. So I’ve gained a couple pounds. I want to lean up, guess what.

Waldo Waldman: When I’m putting in the work when I’m getting my mindset, right, when I’m doing the disciplines that emulate excellence and build trust in myself.

Waldo Waldman: It’s going to be translated and transferred through this medium called a camera talking to you 1000 miles away. And it’s also going to be translated to the people that are watching me on stage, getting coaching from me, etc. And people smell out and feel

Waldo Waldman: Dissonance they sense somebody that’s not worthy of trust. I don’t care how charismatic or good looking, or sharp. You think you are.

Waldo Waldman: People sense it and now more than ever, they feel it on a phone call on not a zoom call and on a stage. So you’ve got to be

Waldo Waldman: An older have that sense of confidence and you can’t put your fingers on it, but so I go through those habits and practices and also

Waldo Waldman: I’m pretty good at asking for help. I know, man. I could be a wing nut at times. I’ve got issues and challenges. I’m always working on myself, but I have a bunch of friends and peers.

Waldo Waldman: Who I can go to for help, who will kick my butt, you know, be my wing man and tell me what I need to hear

Waldo Waldman: And not what I want to hear. So I think that’s important, and I have a saying I want people to write this down. It’s one of my favorite quotes I made up is make your friends, your mentors and your mentors, your friends.

Waldo Waldman: You’ve got some mentors, right, you’ve got some people who are amazing in your life up them Minnesota and and and you know when you when you make them your friends and

Waldo Waldman: Make your friends, your mentors. Now you’re talking about building that team of wingman those men and women who are competent and capable and empathetic and compassionate enough and willing to tick you off to get David to grow.

David Horsager: And so I’ll tell you this, this, this can’t be, can’t be overstated, you know, mentors.

David Horsager: Mentorship has changed me for sure, but I’ll go back to the mentors that became friends so 28 years ago about in college. I started meeting with a group of guys Thursday nights 10 O’clock till midnight, we would meet, how are you

David Horsager: You know with real call outs to how are you being great, how are you treating that woman on a date. How are you leading this way how we were kind of known, you know, leaders on campus. Some would say, but that group still meets

David Horsager: Every year. Now we don’t meet every week we meet every year for four or five days, little cabin up in the woods.

David Horsager: And we each share about three hours each through a series of questions, how you live in as a dad how you live in as a leader, we, we all lead teams or companies. How are you, and that what I’ve seen is great leaders are willing to not just take feedback but seek it.

David Horsager: And that’s I think what your, your group when you talk about your wingman and wing moms.

David Horsager: You know, willing to seek. It’s different than just take feedback because you can deal with the moment they gave me some feedback. I gotta deal with that. I manage it. Now they’re seeking feedback.

David Horsager: Right. So yeah, be better. So

David Horsager: I think I and I think that the other thing that I want to call out here what you said we say it all the time here.

David Horsager: Every science says it and I’ve said it before input leads up equals output right business input equals output first law of thermodynamics, the energy put into the energy, get out, psychology, what you think about

David Horsager: You start to desire, what you start to act on. I mean, every science says the same thing. I can eat something bad, and it comes in bed becomes bad out what whether it’s a bride body or not. Right, so

David Horsager: But I’ve always appreciated that with you, your discipline, both as a husband and a father with your body. I mean, I, I can’t you know this is hard to say about people that actually we do trust those

David Horsager: That that kind of you know that are disciplined in other areas. I mean, because you’re disciplined with your body and with your parenting people trust you on the stage, even though it’s you’re talking about something totally differently.

Waldo Waldman: Right, right.

David Horsager: So never fly solo what inspired what inspired that book.

Waldo Waldman: So,

Waldo Waldman: It’s about those partnerships. Right. It’s about

Waldo Waldman: Nurturing those relationships in your life that can get you to the next level that humble you, that make life more joyful and less fearful, you know, when I flew in combat and, you know, flying eight our mission of Iraq at night.

Waldo Waldman: And being shot at is one thing, but then I suffered with claustrophobia. I had a panic attack scuba diving through years of my 11 year flying career develop through PTSD.

Waldo Waldman: This this this anxiety that I had for eight of my 11 year flying career and I had people helped me I double down on what I was fighting for who needed me

Waldo Waldman: One of my tools and I could talk about this for a long time, but I’ll just share when I have those panic attacks in the jet. The biggest tool to allow me to overcome my fear.

Waldo Waldman: And stay present was looking out my wing or to the students sitting next to me because I was a teaching as well as an instructor pilot

Waldo Waldman: And focusing on him or her saying this person needs me to teach them. They need me to take them into Iraq on a seven hour night combat mission.

Waldo Waldman: I could be freaking out having this claustrophobic mental panic attack but I distracted myself from myself and focused on that teammate.

Waldo Waldman: Who needed me and also who I knew had my back, who I knew was checking my blind spot my six. You know, when a jet. You can’t see your most vulnerable position behind you. If you’re leaking fuel on fire, etc.

Waldo Waldman: But when that wingman a wing man is there and you feel confident that you can depend on them and they can depend on you.

Waldo Waldman: You have a higher calling and that’s why part of excellence is service and love is service and action when you truly love something and serve them and distract yourself from your fears and realize there are men and women who needs you. And this is key right now in the in the

David Horsager: In the, in the

Waldo Waldman: coven environment and our environment of instability and uncertainty and turbulence.

Waldo Waldman: You have to distract yourself from yourself. And what a better way no better way to do that than to think about those people who need you and any parent and he loved someone who truly love somebody else. I’m talking about true, authentic love

Waldo Waldman: Will realize that you’ll jump off 100 foot diving board to save your kids and jump in front of a train and take one for for your loved one, but it’s no longer about you.

Waldo Waldman: Focus. This was

Waldo Waldman: Was key. And that’s what never fly solo is about and realize that in my life. I would not be here if it wasn’t for those teammates. It wasn’t for my friends who encouraged me coach me kicked me at times and pushed me

Waldo Waldman: And so that’s that’s what my context of life is about and all my speeches my coaching. It’s about trusting yourself, which is the first part of the book then trust in your team. You’ve got to build those partners.

Waldo Waldman: Because you can’t see the big picture on your own. There’s others who have a different insight experience in context of success. You got to put it in your flight plan to grow.

David Horsager: Maybe we get to something specific. I love this, you know, we just came through a crisis, people could say there’s racial tension, there’s

David Horsager: Global tension. There’s political tension and of course has been pandemic tension. But how do you

David Horsager: You take it, you know, these, these flights over racked and we’re talking about trust. We think trust affects every part of a leader, more than anything else. How do you build in the midst of combat in the midst of tension and challenge. How do you build trust as a leader, then

Waldo Waldman: So you you build it by experiencing that fear and anxiety and pressure.

Waldo Waldman: As much as you can.

Waldo Waldman: So that by that when it happens the next time you more present. He is what I mean. Yeah, when I was in combat, for the first time I was scared to death crapping my pants, so to speak, walking on the tarmac heart pounding freaking out.

Waldo Waldman: A bunch of times, I’ll never forget crossing the phone edge of the battle area in combat, for the first time you go master arm hot you hit the pickle button. Something’s coming off that aircraft. But guess what people are trying to kill you.

Waldo Waldman: Think about that. You’re in an area where people are trying to kill you. The fear is overwhelming, but guess what, you get used to it.

Waldo Waldman: And the next mission gets a little easier and you engage the enemy and you realize, hey, I can operate in this environment. I can operate and lead my team and feel confident in getting the job done. I’m building my skill set. I’m building more courage. I’m building more confidence in myself.

Waldo Waldman: Which will then allow me

Waldo Waldman: To take bigger risks and stay in the fight more and coach, others more. So that is the foundation of resilience

Waldo Waldman: Resilience just doesn’t mean I’m going to meditate. I’m going to call a friend. I’m going to have a green smoothie and do yoga and and maybe take a walk in the park. Those are important parts of distracting yourself from the current fear.

Waldo Waldman: But true resilience for a warrior for a leader who’s in the battle every day, risking it all risking getting shot at facing their panic attacks.

Waldo Waldman: Is being used to and getting used to operating in that danger zone and you’re just going there and that’s why the same pain leads to peace.

Waldo Waldman: Pain leads to peace that pain of staying in the jet being shot at overcoming the pain of being on that treadmill, like I was today.

Waldo Waldman: You know, doing the high intensity training going up to like nine nine, you know, nine on the thing and sweating and doing that 45 or 60 seconds. So I wanted to pass out and then slowing it down. I’m like, Okay, I’m used to that.

Waldo Waldman: Guess what that pain now builds the endorphins and I have peace because guess what listener.

Waldo Waldman: I did it. I stayed in that on that treadmill I bled and sweat and I went through the pain and I’m building that resilience and competence that only is a byproduct of risking it and stepping in the ring and and and facing your fears. That’s the gift, by the way.

Waldo Waldman: Of the pandemic. That’s the gift. When God forbid you get coven and you go through the rigmarole and God willing, you live.

David Horsager: That’s the gift.

Waldo Waldman: Of maybe having your spouse come up to you and say I want a divorce and working through that. That’s the gift of embarrassing yourself in front of a sale because you weren’t prepared and you lost a deal. And you have to go home with your tail between your legs.

Waldo Waldman: That pain will lead to peace, as long as you learn from it and a willing to continuously step into the jet and face those fears and that’s why the best leaders are the ones who have the experience and the scars and the battle damage to prove it.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Well, there’s a whole lot more here. There’s a whole lot more and never fly solo and all the all the

David Horsager: Resources and we’re going to put them in the show notes. And I’m going to ask for a sec. Well, we should jump right here. Where would you say, where can people go to find out more about never fly solo all the great work you do and Waldo Waldman

Waldo Waldman: And then also just want to thank you David. We’ve been friends for many years we had I take a nice, fun lunch in Savannah. A couple years ago, I think it was just last few

David Horsager: More questions just serve videos. I’m gonna get we’re gonna get to the quick fire because I want to find one more. I want to follow up one more thing is one thing. Don’t let me forget

Waldo Waldman: That truly is the impetus for leaders. So if you go to your wingman.com your wingman calm and actually I’m going to give everybody a free download to my New York Times bestseller. My audiobook

Waldo Waldman: And we could track it based on your listeners if they go to your way man calm, forward slash and Fs like never fly solo your women.com forward slash best, you get a download of the audiobook

Waldo Waldman: And share it with your kids and people who who need that courage and if you go to wall a wall been on LinkedIn. That’s where I’m really, really do a lot of work Waller woman on LinkedIn or Google wall a wall, and you can find me there.

Waldo Waldman: I’m all over social media. And so that’s the best way to find me and I’m actually going to put it up here on the screen. If people want to connect with me if they’re watching this

Waldo Waldman: There’s a link to never fly so on. There’s a QR code. If you put your camera up to that press pause on this video and you can connect with me on LinkedIn right there.

David Horsager: So let’s get the lightning round. This is fantastic. What a couple quick things here. What’s your favorite book or resource right now.

Waldo Waldman: So I’m reading. How to Win Friends and Influence People again. It’s just such a fundamental critical book on communication skills on relationship skills on business. It’s just amazing. I actually had my son, read a

Waldo Waldman: CHAPTER THE OTHER DAY. I’m forcing him to read more. It’s just so great and then not Ernest Holmes. He’s a spiritual leader, he’s got he’s got 365 philosophies to every day. So I read that every day. And that’s, that’s my go to because it gets me thinking in the right direction.

David Horsager: Perfect. Good. I mean, how to win friends and influence people that that books changed a few lives, hasn’t it, I remember, I think it was 11 years old or something. When I read it for the first time for

Waldo Waldman: You good for you.

David Horsager: What’s your give us one tip parenting tip you got a great 10 year old great marriage one parenting or marriage tip leaders are great that are great at work are great at home.

Waldo Waldman: Make sure there’s consistency between your husband or spouse spouse or partner with how you you handle and discipline your son or daughter I you don’t correct your husband or partner or spouse.

Waldo Waldman: While they’re doing something

Waldo Waldman: If your son or daughter does something and you see your spouse or partner, make a make a decision.

Waldo Waldman: Hopefully that’s supporting how you feel about it but don’t correct them in front of each other. Make sure there’s consistency. Otherwise, your son or daughter will doubt you and they won’t know who to trust.

David Horsager: Absolutely. Don’t see ski. Yep, it is.

Waldo Waldman: It’s a culture of home critical right

David Horsager: What, what’s one thing left for you on the bucket list.

Waldo Waldman: Man.

Waldo Waldman: So I think I need to go. I need to go a parachuting I most people know I’m massively also afraid of heights. I was claustrophobic and afraid of heights.

Waldo Waldman: I need to jump out of a plane before I die and face my fear I did go scuba diving, again, a few years after that other Internet was in the Caribbean.

Waldo Waldman: Great training. I was in a cage initially and a coach me great important to have people you trust to face your fears. If you’re having an anxiety. Those instructors were phenomenal.

Waldo Waldman: But I gotta jump out of a plane that’s that’s on my fear bucket.

Waldo Waldman: List, so I don’t, please don’t hold me accountable. Yeah, sure, Waldo. So I’m going to make that happen with my twin brother, Dave. We’re going to both do it at the same time. And I’m going to, you know, face my fear and do it.

David Horsager: I’ll tell you what this many don’t know this about me but I had an incident. I used to be a lifeguard. You know, growing up and

David Horsager: My life guardian all that and I was caught under a big no more than a tarp is inch thick of bubble rubber under a big

David Horsager: Expansive water. Anyway, I should have died and that but that moment 20 years old that made me claustrophobic. And I learned it the first time when we went spelunking and caving and all that. What happened but but it was

David Horsager: That I don’t know how you get in those you know i mean i you gave a tip today on focusing on others, but it would be massively different

David Horsager: I bet challenge. I say, you know, flying 100 year or whatever it is a couple hundred times I guess round trip.

David Horsager: People don’t pay me to fly they pay me to get on the plane and and you know when everybody if if I’m inside and every stands up, I started, I have had to learn them to manage that as well. But my dad was a paratrooper. And so this kind of connection for you. And so I did go up and

David Horsager: You know parachute.

David Horsager: And that was a great experience. And I think you should do it.

David Horsager: But there are kind of opposites. But that, you know, one is being totally free and and high up in the air and the other one is being totally can.

David Horsager: Put in a tight space, but not a valid fears for sure.

Waldo Waldman: Afraid of heights. Let me share something real quick here.

Waldo Waldman: And it goes back to, you know, one of the tools of facing my

Waldo Waldman: Fear was, you know, reaching out to my team and realizing that and focusing on them, but it also is align and this is critical for the listeners.

Waldo Waldman: And it’s critical for a leader who have other people depending on them. It’s good. A hole for a wing mom a wing dad who has a spouse or partner or children depending on them. It’s called responsibility.

Waldo Waldman: I had wings on my chest.

Waldo Waldman: David listeners. I had rank on my shoulders. I was a fighter pilot. And when I was asked to go to battle it meant it was incumbent upon me to

Waldo Waldman: face my fears because others would depending on me when you were a parent. If you have little ones at home.

Waldo Waldman: You don’t say, Oh, I’m losing my passion. Today I I’m just a little afraid I’m losing my passion. Listen, two year old daughter or son.

Waldo Waldman: Hannah. Listen, I’m losing the passion.

Waldo Waldman: Why don’t you change your diaper and feed yourself some Gerber

David Horsager: And

Waldo Waldman: I’m going to go have a have a Chardonnay and call it a day. Because guess what my passion just isn’t there too bad.

Waldo Waldman: I told myself, Waldo Waldman

Waldo Waldman: You’re a fighter pilot you rose your right hand. YOU’RE MR fighter pilot. Top Gun

Waldo Waldman: You got these wings on your

David Horsager: Chest.

Waldo Waldman: You better do the damn job. My

Waldo Waldman: Ego was in the way and it helped me in a good way.

Waldo Waldman: But my sense of responsibility, which is an alignment with my honor

Waldo Waldman: As a leader and that others were dependent on me, got my butt.

Waldo Waldman: In that chat.

Waldo Waldman: And made me take off because if I didn’t fly if I quit. If I wasn’t present

Waldo Waldman: On the mission.

Waldo Waldman: Who would suffer not just me my team.

Waldo Waldman: We have a responsibility for our team. We have a responsibility to take care of our kids.

Waldo Waldman: We have a responsibility to live up to the standards that we preach about and too many people today in society are focusing too much on that passion and on their joy and fun and forgetting.

Waldo Waldman: That sometimes being a leader is going to suck.

Waldo Waldman: And we need to double down on those responsibilities and grind it out.

Waldo Waldman: And hopefully celebrate our wins, but

Waldo Waldman: Because life is tough. And sometimes it’s combat and

Waldo Waldman: I’m just passionate about that now.

Waldo Waldman: Especially with what’s going on in the world today.

David Horsager: Dave. It is work to be a leader, the weight of leadership is heavy, but it is a, it’s a massive responsibility and I appreciate what you said we I couldn’t agree more need leaders are leaders are responsible

David Horsager: So you know where to get everything listeners trusted leader show.com last question for you. Lieutenant Colonel, here it is.

David Horsager: It’s the dress. Oh, who is the you trust and why

Waldo Waldman: Say again who

Waldo Waldman: You you cut out

David Horsager: It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust why

David Horsager: So,

Waldo Waldman: I love my twin brother, Dave.

Waldo Waldman: And he’s my best friend.

Waldo Waldman: He’s brutally honest with me and I’m brutally honest with him.

Waldo Waldman: And I know at the end of the

Waldo Waldman: Day, he


Waldo Waldman: Going to have my back and

Waldo Waldman: Tell me, once again, what I need to hear not what I want to


Waldo Waldman: We’ve had a long relationship. We’ve always been very competitive with each other, but we love each other. He’s the only person I

Waldo Waldman: I jumped in front of a train for other than my family.

Waldo Waldman: But the only person I probably push in front of on because he drives me crazy. Right. And for those of us who have kids in our brothers and sisters that way. But Dave is my ultimate wing that I know no matter what 24 seven. If I call out for help. He will be there for me.

Waldo Waldman: And he will give me the advice that I need.

Waldo Waldman: To hear not what I want to hear. And I’m blessed to have that in my life. It’s a

David Horsager: Context.

Waldo Waldman: Of my life. I learned it.

Waldo Waldman: We were not just wingman. We were roommates.

Waldo Waldman: Wound mates right and

Waldo Waldman: And so I’m blessed to have that in my life and he is my best friend and once again.

Waldo Waldman: He’s gonna piss me off sometimes but

Waldo Waldman: That’s who I want

Waldo Waldman: In my formation in combat somebody who’s really going to have my back and help me to get better.

David Horsager: Well, Lieutenant Colonel Lynn thank being on the show. Thanks for sharing with us. Thanks for what you do in the world I i’m not i don’t say this trial, you know, we’re friends. And I am so proud of you. And so grateful.

David Horsager: And all you do on stage and off, and there are so many more to get dig board today, but I’ll, I’ll just wrap with some of these you dissonance another’s you got to reward or the good, you got to be willing to be

David Horsager: asked for help. Remember input does equal output pain can lead to peace. That’s a good one. Make your friends, your mentors and your, your friends.

David Horsager: Question, do you trust yourself. You need to do the little things every day. Trust yourself. And with that, I want to say a huge, huge, huge thank you thank you to all the listeners for listening to the trust of leaders show. We’ll see you next time stay trusted.

Ep. 31: Brian Lord on Why Leaders Must ALWAYS Have Hope

In this episode, David sits down with Brian Lord, President of Premiere Speakers Bureau and Host of the Beyond Speaking podcast, to discuss why leaders set the tone for their employees, and why leaders must ALWAYS have hope.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Brian’s Bio:
Brian Lord is the president of Premiere Speakers Bureau and host of the Beyond Speaking podcast. Brian is a 26 year veteran of the speaking and entertainment industry, with the past two decades at Premiere following stints at the William Morris agency, and his own agency. He’s booked everyone from world leaders to CEOs to Hall of Fame athletes (and even David Horsager!) for most of the Fortune 500. He’s been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, and on BBC Radio and was chosen in 2015 as one of the Nashville Business Journal’s 40 Under 40. He enjoys writing, racing triathlons, and coaching youth softball. He and his wife Krista enjoy raising their four kids outside of Nashville, TN.

Brian’s Links:
Website: https://premierespeakers.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/PremiereBrian
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlord/

Key Quotes:
1. “I always love learning.”
2. “Whenever you meet somebody, you realize that they know more than you about something.”
3. “The best way to be smart is to realize you don’t know everything.”
4. “There’s still so much to be grateful for.”
5. “Regardless of what happens, you’ve always got to have hope.”
6. “It’s really good to have great people around you.”
7. “Part of your role as a leader is to still have that hope.”
8. “You can choose to focus on what you don’t have and what you can’t do, or you can choose to focus on what you do have and what you can do.”
9. “Leaders really set the tone.”
10. “Work hard like I don’t have any money, but be honest like I have all of it and I don’t need any.”
11. “I always like things that kind of mix business and helping people in need.”
12. “Never forget that what you do is teaching people how to improve their lives.”
13. “You’re either a reflection or a reaction to your parents.” – Bob Goff
14. “I’m not here without everybody else.”
15. “Don’t put up bricks.”
16. “Other people aren’t like you.”
17. “Let people think before they talk.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Epic of Gilgamesh” by Anonymous: https://amzn.to/3bPFJZP
“A Tale of Two Cities” by Charles Dickens: https://amzn.to/3bSJHAZ
“The Lord of the Rings” by J.R.R. Tolkien: https://amzn.to/3fh4zDT
“The 5000 Year Leap” by W. Cleon Skousen: https://amzn.to/3vhnGn7

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse saga our guest this week. He’s been a friend for a long time. We work together. He is CEO of premier speakers and we, you know,

David Horsager: He’s a whole lot more than that. You’re going to get to get to know them a little bit. He’s a father of four. I’m the father, for we both done

David Horsager: We were talking about this. We both done working Kenya and we have a heart for some things happening Dominican Republic. My, my.

David Horsager: wife and daughter were there, you are doing some neat things there.

David Horsager: You’re a track athlete. I try to be a triathlete

David Horsager: In fact,

David Horsager: He, he was a national champion ship qualifier. He is, you know, in the business journal and 2014 2015 he was the this kind of noted what was that the 40 under 40 so great guy. But what I like about my friend Brian Lord is he’s what we say in the business, the same onstage and offstage so

Brian Lord: Brian welcome.

Brian Lord: Hey, well thanks, David. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate. I’m excited to be on

David Horsager: Well, there’s a few things about you. And there’s a whole lot more. We could get to, but

David Horsager: Give us a couple things, two or three things, who is Brian Laura and we’ll get into it.

Brian Lord: Uh, you know that’s that’s a tough question to answer it. Just because you you kind of are who you are. Your whole life. I mean, I’ve always been interested in learning and getting to know people.

Brian Lord: And being around people that aren’t like myself. And so, you know, why go these different student things and I always try to hang out with people that were the least like me in certain ways, and I’m from Indiana, so I’m like, trying to avoid the farm kids and

David Horsager: Today, because you’re stuck with one

Brian Lord: So, so, you know, we’ve got this family farm. That’s like 160 years old up in Indiana is just growing corn, since you know before the Civil War, but

Brian Lord: But I think I’ve always just like learning and and being in the industry. I’m in the speaker’s bureau industry.

Brian Lord: And before that, the entertainment industry, you know, able to meet all kinds of different incredible people. And for me, you know, sometimes

Brian Lord: making phone calls and emails. Isn’t that exciting. But getting to know all the people stories, not just the amazing speakers, but also you know clients and

Brian Lord: You know, I was talking to somebody today and her father’s like this famous archaeologists in the in the Mediterranean, and I’m like, oh, that’s really cool you know and and just the interesting people you you run into all over the place. So I always love learning

Brian Lord: And so whatever I’m doing, whether it’s this where there’s that. And I think that’s to you. Whenever you meet somebody you realize that they know more than you about something.

Brian Lord: And I love to learn. And so you just be humble and and realize the best way to be smart just realize you don’t know everything.

David Horsager: Everyone has a story right every everybody has a story and we all have

David Horsager: We certainly all have something to learn

David Horsager: Who is someone you’ve learned the most from

Brian Lord: You know, I think my mom I when I was growing up, you know, my parents got divorced my dad. It did end up coming back into the picture about 10 years later, but my mom is somebody that never ever ever gave up.

Brian Lord: So you’ve got, you know, single mom for kids, three of them with health problems. The others baby and just that really, really difficult time and never giving up never complaining

Brian Lord: You know, my wife jokes around that. I don’t like to play in which I don’t know it’s true I i’m sure I complain, sometimes, but it’s it’s definitely not a normal thing to complain. So like this year.

Brian Lord: I have, you know, it’s been, you know, or this past year 2020 has just been a crazy year but it’s, there’s still so much to be grateful for and be thankful for realizing difficult things go on and I think I got that from my mom just

Brian Lord: You know, working midnight sleeping three hours or three or four hours a day for

Brian Lord: You know 15 years and still having a smile and still, you know, showing showing that kind of thing. So even with all the amazing people I’ve met over the years, I’d still have to say my mom has got to be up there.

David Horsager: And you’ve met some amazing ones and back when you’re with William Morris, of course, to and now with what you’re doing today, but you know I had a challenge, one time you this just made me think of it.

David Horsager: A mentor of mine challenge to me one time, this was maybe 20 years ago but it changed me forever. He said, David, I want you to do something for

David Horsager: 90 days, not one complaint.

David Horsager: Never no complaints no complaint, you can say complain about anything for 90 days.

David Horsager: I think I wrote about that might have been in my first book or something. But it was it was, you know, that was powerful. It’s like not not saying one complaint.

David Horsager: Interesting Lee I was this kind of ties. I’m jumping around here, but yesterday I think it was listen to a podcast about how

David Horsager: are few things more powerful than believing in someone but especially believing them when they can’t don’t believe in themselves and seems like your mom carried certainly some of that with so you know on this theme of learning that

David Horsager: We brought up and we just go with it here, but it all.

David Horsager: It all becomes about being a trusted leader, but this certainly is. What do you learn in these days, you know, we just came through this pandemic over the last year and all these things are changing what what what what are your key learnings, what are you learning right now.

Brian Lord: I mean, I think for me, a lot of it is is storytelling. You know, I think you always have to do something else besides your actual work. And so I’ve been writing a lot and learning a whole lot about

Brian Lord: Storytelling and what what that makes up, but it also what makes things true to people.

Brian Lord: So, you know, telling a story. You can tell true stories too. So I’m not talking purely about fiction but learning about what makes things resonate where they’ve come from in history.

Brian Lord: You know, like you look at if you’ve ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is like the first adventure story ever that most people

Brian Lord: Have been able to find, you know, it’s not that far from James Bond. So it’s or even Star Wars. So those different things with a hero meets a mentor gets the these different things to complete their quest.

Brian Lord: And and overcome impossible odds. You know those things resonate over and over again. And so how do those things, inspire you. How do they inspire others.

Brian Lord: You know, I’ve, I love inspiration from business standpoint, but also with kids. And for me, a lot of that was reading and so

Brian Lord: You know, just encouraging kids to read and to grow as well. I think are so important. So, I mean, that’s kind of what I’ve been really learning right now, but then also just

Brian Lord: Just those little things of just showing up every day and even if everything’s kind of falling around around you.

Brian Lord: Know that there’s been a story people have come through worse than this, and regardless of what happens you have always got to have hope. And, you know, make the best of that one individual day

David Horsager: Love it. My wife, you know, as I, you know, spoke, I don’t know, around 100 times a year for a couple decades now when we started, now we have four kids like you have four kids. So thinking about our kids too and trying to instill learnings, a big deal. But I remember

David Horsager: Back when we started, it was just her and I, we, you know, now she doesn’t travel with me all the time, but back then I would be backstage. You know, I’m younger than the whole audience in my 20s scared to death to go out there, you know, and she would have this thing she said every time.

David Horsager: Thousand people out there, whatever it was behind the curtain. David just love them. They can tell when you love them.

David Horsager: And that whole thing of when you care about them. I remember now.

David Horsager: Times I’ve gone in the boardroom of she’s known unknown I’ve gone to the compound it bang vanguard. I got to meet with the board of directors that all these things, grabbing the guy that sets the

David Horsager: The, the dollar amount on mutual fund that if he’s off by a penny. It can be millions of dollars. And he’s like, I’m going in there and she texts me right as I’m going to compound and, you know, Massachusetts, or I’m sitting next to President of a country in

David Horsager: East Africa. And, you know, there’s the president. There’s machine guns all around. And as I’m going and she’ll text me or whatever.

David Horsager: They never forget the research just love them. They can tell when you love them.

David Horsager: And yep

David Horsager: Certainly true with

David Horsager: Showing up every day and knowing. Everybody has a story and seeing their story and loving them, even if they’re different and we could certainly use a little more of that today, it seems like

David Horsager: So you’re what a you know you’re leading an organization that had to pivot a lap up somewhat over the last year or so. But what are some things as a leader, you’re learning

Brian Lord: I think it’s, it’s that it’s really good to have great people around you.

Brian Lord: It’s not just not just when things are good, but also when they’re tough.

Brian Lord: And part of your role as a leader is to still have that hope I remember we were having, you know, these meetings and

Brian Lord: Of course, our you know a whole lot of our income is based on people traveling and getting together, big groups which has not been the recipe for success in 2020 for the most part.

Brian Lord: And we just said to say, you know, how can we

Brian Lord: help our clients, how can we do that.

Brian Lord: And and just getting it refocused on what we can do. So there’s so often so many things are focused on what you can’t do what you don’t have. What can we do, okay, we don’t have this big chunk of what we’ve always done

Brian Lord: How can we make this most of this little chunk that we’ve done. What advantages do we have and are, you know, the folks, we haven’t it stepped up and advanced stepped up accounting stepped up.

Brian Lord: You know i i don’t know if i had the least amount to do with it. But I certainly didn’t have the most and it’s just because so many people that are talented at what they do.

Brian Lord: Really refocused and, you know, whether it’s, you know, Sean Hanks here who’s who. Who’s done so much or sharing in accounting are all are all these other people. We couldn’t even name.

Brian Lord: That have, you know, stepped up and there’s this late night that you didn’t see or they made the decision to keep pushing you when they were a little tired or we all took a break. You know those different things that

Brian Lord: Helps be successful. And it really difficult time and you can choose to

Brian Lord: Focus on what you don’t have. And what you can’t do or you can choose to focus on what you do have what you can do.

Brian Lord: And that’s just really simple choice and really simple decision. And I think people just like you were talking about. There’s all this research. Everything else but really it’s just kind of who you are and how you’re made up and choosing to do what you’re able to do

David Horsager: So get into those little things, I think, you know, you talk about you gotta hire the right people and but but let’s think about this. What habits. Do you see those great people, you’re thinking about, you know,

David Horsager: They had to persevere. They had a pivot whatever last year, but they probably had things that they just do like what makes up the great people. I mean,

David Horsager: Once the only might say it’s it’s hungry and smart and you know that you might say, well, what are the what are the habits or what do you notice when you said that person has what we need here at premier they’re doing the little things we need to do every day. What are those things.

What’s that look

Brian Lord: I think it’s, I think it wanted showing up. It was kind of funny, I was talking about cousin who works in

Brian Lord: I won’t say what company but but we’re trying to get together and she goes, yeah, I can leave for up to two hours without everybody quitting working

Brian Lord: So like, that’s her thing. Like, I can’t imagine like I don’t if I’m not here. I don’t worry about people not doing their job.

Brian Lord: And I think that people have that responsibility. I know there’s always jokes about it a lot of times our IT department is are the first people here.

Brian Lord: And, you know, and that’s the, you know, you hear people say oh yeah it guys rolled in at 10am I’m like really they do that, and it’s just kind of the reality of different places, compared to here, but I think there’s just that standard

Brian Lord: And that I think also too, and you’ve pointed this out before that leaders really set the tone. If the leaders are really entitled or lazy or, you know, those sorts of things.

Brian Lord: It’s not going to happen.

Brian Lord: And I think for a lot of people here you you do your job and it’s not about the title I know my mom kind of got on me because I

Brian Lord: got promoted to President and I forgot for almost two years to update it on LinkedIn and then she’s like, how could you not tell me right when they

Brian Lord: Go because my mom is one of those like she’s a nurse, so she put like a button of every sports team or on if there was like a premier President button. She would have put it on and wanted around to

Brian Lord: To to do bedside visits with people and everything else. And it just didn’t, you know, and other people here like I have to find like I know what they do. I don’t actually know what their title is and so

Brian Lord: And I was like, one guy here, like you, you’re talking about you talk to the person off camera. So I talked to Eric woody off camera here and I’m still, I think he’s

Brian Lord: Marketing Manager director marketing something he just does all everything he does, he does extremely well.

Brian Lord: And it doesn’t really matter what his title is. But I think learning is a big thing like everybody’s trying to push and get more stuff and

Brian Lord: Doing masterclass and you know just even if it’s a little stuff outside of things, you know, you’re

Brian Lord: Like a lot of us are into storytelling and so you take those classes on storytelling, even though I’m you know an agent basically like I’m sales guy.

Brian Lord: For talent and he’s running camera or working sound, but he’s really interested in storytelling. What goes into that too. And so it just having a lot of people that are interested in smart and growing and hardworking and they show up.

David Horsager: You know, I want to get to. I want to get too personal. In a moment, because I think

David Horsager: There’s some habits there from you. Certainly as a triathlete and everything else but

David Horsager: What about sales, you started as a sales guy, you’re a sales driven organization. You gotta get you gotta sell and it’s not something that’s just this automatic. I mean, you gotta sell the next event. You gotta sell the next person gonna sell and

David Horsager: What, what makes great. What made you great at sales. What makes some of your top sales team. Great.

Brian Lord: Yeah, I mean for me. I think one of the the joke joke things is not quite a joke but

Brian Lord: My I got asked us 10 or 15 years ago and I said it’s because my mom is a nurse and my dad’s a truck driver.

Brian Lord: And and so where that came from. Is that my dad used to get hired before you had, you know, the internet was that big and everything else. He’d get hired by these different

Brian Lord: Trucking book companies because he could remember what was off what exit which gas stations which restaurants. You could just and he would just tell you, you just go down in interstate and tell you what was off each exit.

Brian Lord: He just kind of had this crazy memory. They knew the mile marker everything, you know, all those sorts of things. So we just kind of had this memory for facts and I don’t have his but I’m still pretty good for human

Brian Lord: And then my mom is somebody who just finally retired after 40 some years as a bedside nurse shoes, but she had this amazing ability to

Brian Lord: Project trust one of your things and calm at people’s most frantic times and with event planners. It’s whatever one of the top 10 most stressful jobs in america and

Brian Lord: For whatever reason, I think that combination of being able to be trustworthy project calm and know, to some extent, what I’m talking about.

Brian Lord: Has Really Helped me whether it was, you know, being an agent assistant at William Morris booking bands or

Brian Lord: You know booking speakers here is that generally I do kind of know what I’m talking about. And also just wanting to put the client first, like if somebody’s not a good fit. I’ll tell them

Brian Lord: For me, I really, really want to be able to go to sleep at night. And so one of the things I’ve always done. Ever since I started, even when I was like, struggling to make rent and everything else.

Brian Lord: Was to work hard, like, I don’t have any money, but be honest, like I have all of it and I don’t meet any

Brian Lord: And that way you can make those decisions like if this didn’t make me any money at all. What would I do if I was desperately, you know, and so you know that’s that’s one of those things I think is just so important that

Brian Lord: Those clients will come back to me like, you know what I found out what you told me it was actually true. And a lot of people that they talk to. It’s not true. There are a lot of great

Brian Lord: agents that different bureaus and everything else. So it’s not saying anything bad about them. They do run across people that

Brian Lord: Don’t treat them that way so they know even if I know they go to somebody else, they may come back to me in the future, just because they they kind of know what they’re getting.

David Horsager: Hungry and honest. I love that that

David Horsager: That can be a talk.

You can

David Horsager: You can go to be hungry and honest right there you

David Horsager: Hungry and honest as a new way of doing sales.

Brian Lord: And I think

David Horsager: I think there’s something for us in this in this world that a project com you know it doesn’t mean be blind.

David Horsager: But when you talk about projecting calm. Like, I think.

David Horsager: They want to be able to trust this this leader, that is that is able to be calm enough to make good decisions. It doesn’t mean they don’t

David Horsager: You know, can confront the facts or whatever. So tell me about a time you know you’ve been around a lot of people tell me about some of the greats. I know you know you’d Robin Williams. I remember you told me a story. One time, about a

David Horsager: An agreement with him. But what what’s something that with some of these maybe there’s a story about working with somebody great that surprised you for the good or that you know like

David Horsager: What you learn what made a difference.

You know,

Brian Lord: Well, I mean, that with a Robin Williams one and I kind of got it. It’s funny, though, is those things that happen with that. So the quick version. The Robin Williams story is that I was close to booking in front of at one time and

Brian Lord: And his office and over the writer and it said that that whenever he does an event, you need to be employing people who are homeless for the duration of that. That’s the in a nutshell. And so

Brian Lord: And I just thought that was amazing. So you know you and I both done stuff with a lot of nonprofits and everything else and and I used to run sort of a nonprofit that help nonprofits do the business part well and

Brian Lord: And so I always like things that kind of mix business and helping people in need. And so we

Brian Lord: So I just thought that was great. I wrote an article and it kind of blew up and then people like do you have the writer and like, well that was like I don’t have the facts as I had from. I mean, what factors do you have from 12 years ago you know so

Brian Lord: Or however long ago. It was so it’s it’s one of those things is very true very popular, but also I don’t have it. So it’s funny to have your own Snopes entry, but

Brian Lord: Well, it was like, you can’t prove or disprove this. I’m like, well, I wish I had it. I didn’t think about keeping all my faxes from early 2000 but but just having those things, you know,

Brian Lord: I love it when speakers, kinda like you have the things you do with Kenya, like I have a heart for a lot of international things and so like Susan Urschel, I love it. She’s a Nevers climber and she has

Brian Lord: Worked with a foundation that helps girls in the nearby communities there in in every area to be able to go to school, so I love that or

Brian Lord: You know, different speakers that have a certain passion. Maybe they’re musician on the side and they help kids.

Brian Lord: Get their instruments. I mean just realizing what you do is, is bigger. So, I mean, we get paid from the corporate side of things, but what what we do in this industry is give people hope it’s given them a plan. It’s

Brian Lord: It’s making people better and I think you should never forget that I was talking to somebody earlier this year.

Brian Lord: doing an interview and that’s that’s the big thing is just never forget that. What you do is teaching people how to improve their lives whether it’s just

Brian Lord: Getting better at sales or leadership or whatever you want them to be better.

Brian Lord: After having heard you than they were before. And for us, you know, we’re kind of back behind the scenes helping set that up. But if you’re an agent, you realize that that you’re important

Brian Lord: That you’re, you’re not the face of it, but you’re there you’re there helping that person.

Brian Lord: Help others. And that was kind of the idea behind the nonprofit is that we’re behind the scenes helping nonprofit leaders who go and help other people

Brian Lord: And that’s still important, and it’s it’s humbling. It’s not as famous as not as glitzy but it’s really important.

Brian Lord: I think that’s what all of us in this industry have to realize is that we need to get our message out. So whether it’s virtual whether it’s in person, whether it’s in writing, whether it’s over, audio, whether it’s over video

Brian Lord: That’s at the end of the day, like people listening this hopefully they are better at something they’re more inspired to do something better than they were before they started listening to it.

David Horsager: Well, to this point. We all love to make a difference part at least many of us are in it for this there is people that are in it, just for the money or just entertained, whatever.

David Horsager: But you and I were in this. We love to make an impact. But when you see speakers. I mean, there’s, there’s a

David Horsager: reasonable argument that hey, you go speak for an hour. You’re not making the impact with that. And there’s some, there’s some reasonableness to that. But when you see people that took that hour or 60 minutes or 90 minutes 45 minutes 90 minutes 30

Brian Lord: Minutes.

David Horsager: And they actually made an impact. They that was like that was something what was there. Well, you know,

David Horsager: Maybe there’s a specific speaker, you’re thinking of, or maybe it’s a story of maybe it’s just what did they do, what did they have those that really took those minutes and added value to them and made an impact.

Brian Lord: Um, MAN, THAT IS TOUGH TO THAT IS TOUGH TO YOUR really put me on the spot here.

Brian Lord: I mean I think just, I mean, I mean, you can look at somebody like Jim Morris, I mean his story. He was the Disney’s The rookie

Brian Lord: And of course, there’s a dramatic story of him going out and playing baseball. But there’s also the story of him coming from this abusive childhood and

Brian Lord: You know, Bob goth. I know you and I are both Bob golf fans, but he says that you’re either a

Brian Lord: A reflection or reaction to your parents. And so, you either intentionally or going out there to be just like your parents or to be just the opposite of them, and we all have that choice and so

Brian Lord: You know Jim Morris. He’s like, I’m going to be there for all these kids because my dad wasn’t there for me.

Brian Lord: And so, you know, he never goes to Major Leagues if he doesn’t have this bet with his kids, but they trusted him that he would follow through with this bet that if he

Brian Lord: If they want the sectional he would try out for the majors, even though he was this you know 37 or whatever year old guy.

Brian Lord: And in just those speakers that they make that difference and Rick Rigsby is another one who

Brian Lord: You know, talks about lessons from a third grade dropout. You know that story, you know, Andy Andrews is another he, you know, you know, Andy.

Brian Lord: And I really like his just with it you know he lost both of his parents. I was an orphan, but both the same story of finding sort of your future through reading, you know, I was a book addict.

Brian Lord: My grandma paid me. She said, I’ll pay you $2 for every Newbery Award winning book and classic that you read. So I’m like a second grader.

Brian Lord: Kind of understanding Tale of Two Cities eating it, you know, reading, reading the book while eating wheaties in the morning and because I could save up and buy an Atari and then Atari is weren’t. Cool. By the time because I kept spending all my money on on

Brian Lord: On baseball cards and candy and stuff like that. And so by end up reading hundreds of books and I so when I heard Andy story of

Brian Lord: You know, he was homeless living under a pier, but he could still go to the library and he had this mentor who came along and

Brian Lord: Made him read 300 books of the greatest people who ever lived, you know, all these autobiographies and it really changed him and that that always resonated resonated with me.

Brian Lord: Because, you know, doesn’t matter how rich or poor, you are, you’re able to get access to books and get those ideas and realize that you’re not too far off from those other people

Brian Lord: Even though they were great at some point, at some point they weren’t and there’s that journey in between. And you can get that through reading and through learning

David Horsager: I love it. Well, I think, you know, it’s interesting.

David Horsager: We have this special opportunity to make an impact. But, you know,

David Horsager: I think what I like about that story compared to some is it’s not the person necessarily that climb Mount Everest. That’s the most inspiring because I’m not going to do that.

David Horsager: The most inspiring speaker is one that gives me an idea. I can use tomorrow morning.

David Horsager: And then like Andy if he inspires people to read more, or to shift somehow to shift thinking in a way that they can do something tomorrow morning about it. I mean, I also think of just

David Horsager: In our company. We just because of my passion for impact we changed everything away from just speaking speaking is Big deal. It’s a lead but we hear good Minnesota term for you right ice ice. So outside of the research we do at the

David Horsager: Institute that i is this inspires shift of

David Horsager: Thinking and then the the sea and the acronym is clarify and measure in our case, we measure trust because if we can measure it, we can close the gap right and the he is equip and we have a process for ongoing

David Horsager: But I, I, I was always thinking, well, man. I just I just spoke at that they loved it. We signed a bunch of books and all that. But how can we help them.

David Horsager: Go from here to here. And that’s actually that motivation is why we change the business. However, I am also in full agreement that you can be changed by someone in a moment in a story.

David Horsager: Even better if we can give a follow up or something. But basically, because I’ve been changed one thought one inspiration and I think usually though it’s it’s one when I think

David Horsager: I could do something with that, not necessarily the celebrity, for me at least as much unless I resonate with how they did it and like, like you said, well, didn’t have parents or whatever it was that resonated with that that awesome

David Horsager: Yeah, so let’s get to you, uh, you know, we’re talking about trust the leaders and they tend to have some habits that we can

David Horsager: Replicate and I think of you, what what habits do you have that have helped you lead premier lead your family lead on stage and

onstage and offstage

David Horsager: Favorite habits or routines.

Brian Lord: Well, I mean, I think one of it. I mean, like, I’m one of the leaders at premier so realizing that that there are others here and you can’t. You have to have those different leaders, whether and a lot. Most of its through action.

Brian Lord: Some of its through talk, but most of its through action, I think, realizing that is a big thing that

Brian Lord: You know, you get in trouble because I know people say you say we too much. Well, that’s because I really don’t like I realized that I might be a person that’s out in front, a little bit more like I don’t mind being on camera.

Brian Lord: I don’t mind, you know, doing a lot of those sort of front forward things

Brian Lord: But I’m not here without everybody else. I mean, it’s kind of like the, you know, you got a fighter pilot. But you’ve got 30 people on the crew or 100 people on the crew.

Brian Lord: Getting them up there and not to mention the people who built the plane and and working on the guidance and everything else.

Brian Lord: So even if you are the face or one of the faces you aren’t the person that is is making everything go, you’re just part of it.

Brian Lord: I think, you know, constantly learning. So, I mean, I try to work in learning every chance I can get

Brian Lord: You know, whether it’s learning languages, going back and forth. So it’s kind of funny I randomly spoke German with somebody like the only two sentences. I knew the other day.

Brian Lord: And that was, that was kind of a fun thing to build a relationship and

Brian Lord: And then masterclass I think you have to be a learner to continue learning things outside your field inside your field outside your field for us, it’s easy to just because if I’m reviewing speakers. I’m usually learning something.

Brian Lord: You know, staying in shape being healthy, you know, I’ve, you know, for me, it’s no longer like an issue like I went back and so the last time I missed a day working out was March 15 so I haven’t

Brian Lord: So usually I get in, you know, probably 360 days a year of either running or biking or swimming, something like that. Let’s do that.

David Horsager: Okay, you’re busy. You got your running

David Horsager: You know your president Premier, you’re, you’re, you know, got four kids.

Brian Lord: Trying to be a good dad husband friend.

David Horsager: What, what’s your routine for getting the workout in. Or, you know, even in the morning. What’s your routine.

Brian Lord: Sure. Well, kind of my personal free time that I get to choose what to do with is generally between about five and 6:30am

Brian Lord: So I will usually wake up today was a little bit earlier that for something and then I finally talked myself back and forth about it finally got out of bed at five, one of those things like am I going to go back sleeping on that when you

David Horsager: Die and

David Horsager: When you go to bed to sleep.

Brian Lord: Whenever my wife finishes watches the watching the show. So he actually bought some sort of show. So I think last night was probably 10 so 10 to four.

Brian Lord: Sometimes it’s 11 to five. One time I think I slept and slept into seven but now it’s really a habit to not to not sleep that late. My wife is a California girl. So she’s on Pacific time and I’m definitely not. So we have different sleep habits. So usually, that’s when I get in

Brian Lord: A workout that usually 30 to 45 minutes I i’ve done marathons, but I haven’t. I didn’t do any of the past, you know, 2020, it was a different year so

Brian Lord: So, so

David Horsager: All right. Going to athletic. I gotta hear this more about sleep. So are you saying normal is six hours of sleep or seven hours of sleep or went, you’re going to bed around

David Horsager: 10 and you’re getting up at four or five

Brian Lord: It has been a little crazy. So about it’s almost four years ago now, we adopted newborn twins. And so we I got had very regular sleep. So for a while I was getting that two hours of sleep a night. And then I started

Brian Lord: It’s just sleep as a little crazy for me, but I can tell if it is bad. So if it’s affecting me that I try to figure out a way to take a nap.

Brian Lord: But usually. It’s usually I wake up and if I know I’m not going back to sleep. I start doing stuff. So my rule is if I’m up for 30 minutes I have to actually get up. So if I wake up I give myself 30 minutes. Go back to sleep.

Brian Lord: But I don’t know the last time I really set an alarm unless I had to be someplace which hasn’t been that much recently. So I’d probably say six hours might be the case, but it’s if I can’t go back to sleep. I get something done.

David Horsager: So you get up at five, then what

Brian Lord: Then you know either 3045 minutes on the bike in the basement. So that’s where I get to catch up on all my movies and, you know, watch the whole MC you series or

Brian Lord: Or a record. I still have recordings of the Tour de France from this summer. So I watched that this morning where I’m kind of going back through the tour.

Brian Lord: And so it’s easier to bike when you’re watching people bike and I’m into the sport. So I actually like it like I can’t understand how people watch golf.

Brian Lord: But I can understand how people watch cycling and I can see how that would be the reverse, and then I’ll usually, you know, like one of my hobbies is writing and so

Brian Lord: You know, all right. Some and then get up and go, if it’s a day while I’m working from home. I’ll usually get the twins up from my wife. So just getting them out of

Brian Lord: Their what they slept in and into what they are going to be running around in that day and making them eggs or something like that. And my wife takes over. And if not, I’m at work. So Monday’s a work at work day and then

Brian Lord: Goes from there. So that’s how I get it in for me. I actually kind of my brain is very sludgy if I don’t exercise. First thing, and then also

Brian Lord: I have a lot less energy if I if I don’t work out. So for me it’s it my day is much worse if I don’t work out.

Brian Lord: And it’s really just a habit. Now, I mean, I can’t even, like, why did I not work out on March 15

Brian Lord: But it was kind of funny because my brothers. Like that’s really high on the grit scale because you know everybody’s into like the Angela Duckworth gritty and like, I don’t know, I just do it. It’s not a like I don’t have to make myself get up and work out. I just do it. Yeah.

David Horsager: Is there any, anything to this point. Any tips that you’ve you’ve learned now as a as a parent that making you a great dad or great husband or or routines that are

David Horsager: Like I always do this or or even with your marriage like

Brian Lord: You know,

David Horsager: This is something that’s really been valuable for us.

Brian Lord: When I was in college. It’s really funny. So, usually in your college all the talks about don’t drink. Don’t do drugs don’t have said don’t do all don’t all this don’t stuff.

Brian Lord: And so we had this couple in and they were doing a talk and they were really old, they were like 28 or 30 or something and

Brian Lord: And so we’re expecting that kind of talk. And this was it like I think university or something, some kind of meeting right there and we

Brian Lord: And so the woman started saying don’t put bricks up in your marriage and like none of us are married. Like, why are you. Why are you telling us this

Brian Lord: Don’t put bricks in your marriage is still, it should say so there’s just one bad thing here and you just put it down. So one bad thing. You still see across everything

Brian Lord: And then, but what happens, you start putting you start putting these bricks all together and they start building up a wall.

Brian Lord: And then, and she’s like, excuse so passionate about this and their time was up. And so the husband’s like okay let’s go and always reminded me like Empire Strikes Back when they’re pulling lady and she’s like, It’s a trap. It’s a trap. And then

Brian Lord: Please don’t put up bricks. Don’t put it breaks. Don’t put up bricks.

Brian Lord: And it just, it just stuck with me forever like don’t put up bricks and so

Brian Lord: So, my wife is amazing. She’s much too good for me I’m like an Indiana farm boy who, you know, married this smart, beautiful Southern California girl sign in, where my head every day but

Brian Lord: But the thing is, is like, don’t put it breaks, like

Brian Lord: Because you can start adding up all the little things that went wrong even a perfect person like my wife will maybe do some stuff and I do some stuff.

Brian Lord: And so my reaction to that is, if I am starting to get mad about something.

Brian Lord: I will take it out by cleaning. So I know that my my physical reaction is to be mad and do something mean but I’ve trained myself to do something nice. So my wife her love language is cleaning. I don’t know where. Which of the five that is

Brian Lord: But that is service coming downstairs, because I yesterday, so I wake up before she does.

Brian Lord: Every day of our marriage, I think. And so if I come down. I just go say I’ll do five minutes of clean five minutes of plane. And so I will switch that crankiness

Brian Lord: To five minutes of clean and even if it’s just getting one area in the kitchen, clean, she will be that much less upset. The next day, instead of me putting up bricks. Like, I’m just going to do something is going to make her mad.

Brian Lord: And our kids see that you know we’ve got four kids and they watched so much like I’ve, I’ve observed so much. Now, especially the second time. So we’ve got a 10 year gap between our oldest and the two youngest

Brian Lord: Of how they really, really pick up on what you do. So I’m hoping that they pick up on that of, you know, doing those little things like mentally. I’m a little ticked off but but physically. I’m going to take that and do something loving for my wife.

David Horsager: Even though I don’t feel. I love it.

Brian Lord: And so that’s been a huge thing for us. And my wife’s much too good for me so

David Horsager: The thing I like about this that ties it all together like

David Horsager: Hey, you heard a story you started talking about story.

David Horsager: Uterus. It was so powerful, so sticky so

David Horsager: Actionable that you acted on it and start putting up bricks and that’s you know as communicators and learners and trainers and developers. There’s a lot more. I’d like to say about all this and

David Horsager: I’d love to get into just learning and how we create learnings from the stage, how we

Brian Lord: Created

David Horsager: In companies. How we get clients. Maybe we’ll, we’ll come back to it. We’re going to get to a lightning round in a moment, but I gotta run over and jump to my producer can do you have any great question here for Mr. Lord

David Horsager: So, uh, Brian, I was, I was just curious since you are over. I mean, you’re leading a lot of people and you said that you have a really great team.

David Horsager: But how do you really deal with

David Horsager: When there’s conflict when maybe someone’s

David Horsager: Not doing what they’re supposed to do. Or maybe you’re not you’re not seeing eye to eye. And there’s some kind of

David Horsager: Friction between you two.

David Horsager: How do you deal with that.

Brian Lord: I think it’s just understanding that other people aren’t like you. So for me, my reaction like one of my favorite stories is

Brian Lord: From Winston Churchill in that when they’re in like the bunkers during the 1939 40 raids nazis are bombing London and everything else. And he’s down there.

Brian Lord: In the bunkers and he’s almost kind of excited like he’s, he’s like, and like you don’t want somebody who doesn’t want to be in a position

Brian Lord: Of difficulty and for me sometimes, like with difficult situations like I

Brian Lord: Nobody wants what happened this year. But for me, I’m excited as an opportunity to do something difficult. Like, how do you wake up every day when things are kind of credit and

Brian Lord: You know, and when you’re put in situations where things seem impossible. I just always think there’s a way out of it. There’s a way to succeed.

Brian Lord: And for me, I was there parts. This year I was kind of excited, like, We’ll figure this out. We’re going to get this done. We’re going to be amazing. We’re going to inspire people. We’re going to do these different things and I

Brian Lord: I’d be almost kind of excited when more bad news came in, which are. That sounds weird. It sounds stupid.

Brian Lord: But I always thought about that with Winston Churchill, is that you want that person who is excited figuring out a way how to save your country when you’re getting bombed by overwhelming odds of the Nazis, you know,

Brian Lord: And so we’ve had these server somewhat overwhelming odds, but for me I have to realize that other people aren’t wired that way.

Brian Lord: It’s going to take. So for me, from that time period that was maybe like a day where I was kind of uncertain and and then by March, whatever 18th. I was ready to go and other people it takes a longer time to process difficult things. And so it’s figuring out how to

Brian Lord: How to motivate them or talk to them when things when they don’t make that switch that quickly.

Brian Lord: And maybe there’s some things like I maybe I was trying to rush too far forward.

Brian Lord: But understanding that different people have different ways of coping and they, it may take them a longer time to get around. But once they do, they will be amazing.

Brian Lord: And so it’s having faith and people that even though they have a different personality type or different mentality.

Brian Lord: That they can still come through and to not give up faith and then to encourage and say okay well you don’t feel like doing this right now, but can you do this, what can’t. What does work for you right now.

Brian Lord: How can you do it and I’m much more everybody has their different things. So for me, I’m much better one on one talking or one, you know, one to two

Brian Lord: And there’s some people that live like having 10 or 12 people around, and that’s their thing, or there’s some people like talking on stage. So for me, it’s either stage or one person or two people. I’m not a good

Brian Lord: I’m not as good with the, you know, let’s discuss this out. This thing I’m much more will have this big discussion here. But the really big stuff I’ll do one on one on one or one on two

David Horsager: Have you had to lay some on off ever

Brian Lord: We did as a company with so so we’ve kept

David Horsager: It open because we since we don’t have much time left, and I have to keep

David Horsager: To it like when you have to have that tough conversation like they’re not a fit, they’re great people. They’re great fit somewhere in the world. What, what do you do in that kind of a tension.

Brian Lord: I think it is just realizing that there’s going to be something better out there. I mean, there’s legal stuff you can say you can’t say

Brian Lord: But I think if it’s none of that stuff applies. It is really just figuring out that this

Brian Lord: Isn’t the right fit. And maybe there’s something else out there that that you’re the perfect person for something else. I mean, I, if I would have stayed at William Morris, I would not have been here.

Brian Lord: And you know we’ve had. Those are the things I didn’t get laid off mine was more like there’s nowhere else for you to go right now. And my boss, there actually helped me get the job here.

Brian Lord: But it was just realizing that there’s certain things that people is its season for different things. And sometimes it’s here. Sometimes it somewhere else. Sure.

David Horsager: And there’s a lot more, you could, you know, conflict. The other way of dealing with the Boston maybe isn’t leaving right or whatever, there’s

David Horsager: Appreciate that, though. Okay, we’re getting a lightning round we got to bring this together, even though we got we have so much more we could ask you about

David Horsager: One favorite book or resource.

Brian Lord: I really like Lord of the Rings. One of my favorite books.

David Horsager: All right, a best advice you’ve ever been given or just a favorite quote or piece of advice.

Brian Lord: Let people think before they talk

David Horsager: And which I’m not doing with you in the lightning round.

Brian Lord: Here we go.

David Horsager: Which is a good quote for this right here.

David Horsager: Love it. Yes.

David Horsager: Well, one, one thing left to do what’s on the bucket list that you’re

David Horsager: You really hope down the road.

Brian Lord: I’d like to get a PhD in history at some point.

David Horsager: Love it. And I love your writing. By the way, I think there’s a lot of people in our world that don’t know how well you right

Brian Lord: Or what you write.

David Horsager: And I like the part of it is the history, the type of history to true stories so

David Horsager: That’s awesome.

David Horsager: Thanks. They there’s, you know, there’s been so much here project the calm. Hey, hungry and honest.

David Horsager: Us story, the discipline of getting up and and actually having creating a habit, where you work off the anger, or at least turn to something else. I’ve got all kinds of notes. I hope you do as well. Where can we find more about Brian

David Horsager: Lord and Premier and what you’re about, and what you’re doing.

Brian Lord: Sure. So my personal Twitter is premier within a PR E m, er, E. Brian, you can find me on Twitter. Their premier speakers.com and then also I host the beyond speaking podcasts and so I know you’ve been a guest night before, and so a lot of interviews there as well.

David Horsager: Great interviews and you’re a great interviewer.

David Horsager: And also to be a to be a part of the, the great stable that you are booking and fun and

David Horsager: Sharing with around the world.

Brian Lord: On the platforms for

David Horsager: Sure, so

David Horsager: This is the trusted leader show this is your last question. Who’s the leader you trust and why

Brian Lord: Ah, man. Are you telling you, like, historically, or are you talking about you. I’m trying to

Brian Lord: You know, one of my all time favorite leaders was john adams who doesn’t get as much credit as that group. He was

Brian Lord: One of the things I like doing is seeing people’s potential and he is the greatest HR manager and human

Brian Lord: In American history. I would say because he picked George Washington to lead the troops when they’re trying to figure out who should take overall command. He picked

Brian Lord: Thomas Jefferson to write the Declaration of Independence, and he even had the opportunity to write it himself, and he pass it off to Thomas Jefferson. And so I think

Brian Lord: Somebody who is really good at picking out what people do best and putting him in that in that situation. To do so is a really great

Brian Lord: Really great trait. And one of those that a lot of people don’t know about. So I’ll go with him for this one. There were a lot of great ones out there, but all

David Horsager: Your art.

David Horsager: That’s a good one. JOHN ADAMS, no one has said that yet.

David Horsager: On this show, you go

David Horsager: Yahtzee. You eat.

David Horsager: Yes, I love it. Have you read the 5000 year gap or 5000 year

Brian Lord: No really, by

David Horsager: It’s, I don’t know, but it’s very fascinating on just this this beginning of the country, how freedom was formed, how

David Horsager: How the final 5000 year leap how really that declaration of independence that

David Horsager: Constitution gave

David Horsager: The world. The 5000 year leap.

David Horsager: Forward.

David Horsager: In many ways, and so not there aren’t plenty of challenges to talk about, but

David Horsager: Yeah, there we go. So Brian, this has been fun. And I could just, I could talk to you all day but I

David Horsager: appreciate you spending time with us and the leaders listening today and

Brian Lord: I just want to say thank you. Hey. Well, David. Thanks so much for having me on. This has been a lot of fun.

David Horsager: Appreciate it. So you can find everything about Brian at the show notes trusted leaders show.com trusted leader show.com it’s been the trusted leader show. Thanks for joining us and we’ll see you next time, stay trusted

Ep. 30: Paul Martinelli on The Key To Effective Personal Transformation

In this episode, David sits down with Paul Martinelli, Internationally Acclaimed Speaker, Trainer, Mentor, and Coach, to discuss the key to effective personal transformation.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Paul’s Bio:
Paul Martinelli is an internationally acclaimed speaker, trainer, mentor, and coach who truly believes that if you can dream it, you can do it.

While many people know Paul as the Founding President and current lead faculty member of The John Maxwell Team, what they may not know is that he is a high school dropout who overcame a stuttering disability to share the stage with some of the biggest names in leadership and personal development – names such as John C. Maxwell, Seth Godin, Jack Canfield, Wayne Dyer, Brian Tracy, Denis Waitley, Zig Ziglar, Les Brown, Nick Vujicic and Mark Victor Hansen.

Paul was raised by a single mother in a Pittsburgh lower class family.

In the late 1980’s, with just $200.00, a used vacuum, and a dream, he founded a small commercial cleaning company in South Florida. He combined smart sales tactics with personal development teachings and propelled his business to unbelievable heights. Just 15 years later, he sold his commercial cleaning company to pursue his passion and purpose of teaching people how to achieve success in their own lives.

His awareness and ability to apply the success strategies and principles that he has learned and taught to others, led to Paul’s success in life and business, including building 5 multi-million-dollar companies.

He now leads the Empowered Living community, a global platform of more than 1.8 million followers, providing personal and professional development training and education to help individuals and businesses build and grow beyond their current results.

Paul Martinelli may not have a wall of diplomas, but you can’t argue with his PhD in results.

Having worked his way up from mop bucket to multi-millionaire, Paul has practiced and proven what he preaches.

Paul’s Links:
Website: https://paulmartinelli.net/
Empowered Living: https://yourempoweredlife.com/
Empowered Living Community Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/empoweredlivingcommunity/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/paul.martinelli/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martinelli_paul/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@paul.martinelli?lang=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf2Piv-pqwFx2zPUx-HeMcA
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmartinelli/

Key Quotes:
1. “Most people are good people. And if given direction and influence they will do the right thing.”
2. “Habit is not a behavior. It’s an expression of a belief.”
3. “The starting point of personal transformation has to be that the person must see themselves complete and whole in relation to that which they want to change.” 4. “Transformation is an inside game.”
5. “Things don’t end well, they start badly.”
6. “Belief drives behavior.”
7. “Become a student of human potential.”
8. “Proximity is power.”
9. “You’ve got to model what you want seen.”
10. “Transformation isn’t an event, it’s a process.”
11. “The answer is really within us.”
12. “It all boils down to trust.”
13. “You can’t make it happen, you can make it welcome.”
14. “Never underestimate the compounding effect of consistency.” – John C. Maxwell

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
The Guardian Angels: http://guardianangels.org/
Empowered Living: https://yourempoweredlife.com/
“Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill: https://amzn.to/3fnaxC4
Paul’s Website: https://paulmartinelli.net/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse auger i’ve got a special guest today, he was a high school dropout he had a stutter he started.

David Horsager: He he started one of his first companies with a couple hundred dollars at your service.

David Horsager: Inc a cleaning company in Florida and sold at 15 years later, you might know him as the founding president of the john Maxwell team he’s done so much more and.

David Horsager: His energy is contagious he has built a massive community of people that are generous givers and learners it’s called the empowered living Community will give you everything on.

David Horsager: where you can find out about that at the show notes episode notes and trusted leader show.com we’re going to talk about it, how you actually change people and all that but welcome to the show Paul martinelli.

paulmartinelli: Thank you Dave Thank you so much, this has been a long time coming, and i’m so excited and congratulations on the upcoming launch of the book.

David Horsager: Authors paint Thank you well we’re excited about that and the lines a lot with empowerment, as you can imagine, trust and empowerment align it’s been a treat to be.

David Horsager: A part of your work and on your show in the past and connecting in so many ways, but you know tell us let’s just start out let’s get to know Paul tell us something maybe not everybody knows about Paul marinelli.

paulmartinelli: yeah I think one of the things is is that I was number two to curtis Lee who founded the guardian angels in New York City in 1979 and that’s surprising to a lot of people because I don’t guess I guess kind of 50 image of some.

paulmartinelli: Urban vigilante fighting crime in the New York City subway systems, but I did, that it was with probably gave me one of the most impactful things in my life.

paulmartinelli: Having you know courteously WHA and that mentorship in my life and his leadership.

David Horsager: Well, you know and and the guardian angels actually didn’t always gain a perfect reputation everywhere, but in New York City.

David Horsager: They did some amazing work and we’re really loved and adored in many, many ways.

David Horsager: Tell us about that for people that don’t know about it.

paulmartinelli: yeah so in 1979 honestly what founded the guardian angels, he was a nighttime manager of a mcdonald’s in the south bronx.

paulmartinelli: And you know it was like a war zone in the south bronx you remember, this is the 70s, remember the movie the warriors was was out the 70s, and that was depicting New York City.

paulmartinelli: And there was a subway line that ran through New York and in the south bronx was called the muggers express and.

paulmartinelli: So what he was doing was he was taking five or six other guys and they would patrol the trains, the subway system.

paulmartinelli: And they would be on the subway system if they saw somebody be mug or being victimized they would literally step in and place people under citizen’s arrest.

paulmartinelli: And so, he started and founded this group, it has grown now internationally thousands of members mainly targeting inner city youth so in giving young younger, you know, men and women, primarily boys.

paulmartinelli: Who could either go the way of the gang but if steered in the right direction could take that energy that street smart and have them do something good rather than bad and.

paulmartinelli: You know, as you mentioned, I was a high school dropout my life was going in the wrong direction, and I was picking up speed.

paulmartinelli: I had been in martial arts, for a long time and date, the guardian angels in Pittsburgh came into work out at my dojo and that’s how I met them I instantly thought I want to do that.

paulmartinelli: and began to patrol cities, the city of Pittsburgh, and then, when I was 17 after failing out of school, I went on the road with curtis and started guardian angel chapters in Chicago and minneapolis and.

paulmartinelli: All through New York and Florida and Atlanta in Texas, and it was just a great experience to be able to go out and.

paulmartinelli: serve people, and you know grow in confidence it’s one of the ways that I overcame my stuttering problem was I had to do news, you know interviews and radio interviews so yeah.

David Horsager: Can you tell us a story, and we, you know we haven’t planned all this ahead of time we’re having a conversation with them, I.

David Horsager: Might for me, and it was an amazing person that’s just all about not only transforming your own life, but others, can you tell me a story about someone in that that you, you saw change because of the guardian angels.

paulmartinelli: Oh yeah I mean, I think the biggest impact we had was in our own lives to see you know, I was, I was often.

paulmartinelli: You, the minority in the group, you know, I was, I was headquarters at 126 and lexington and Harlem above the Amsterdam news building and that was where my headquarters was we called it for the patchy and and then I was spent time in cabrini green.

paulmartinelli: in Chicago and Robert Taylor homes.

paulmartinelli: I was in.

paulmartinelli: herndon homes in Atlanta, where the Atlanta child can leaves work and the biggest transformation, I saw were from our Members right young inner city youth.

paulmartinelli: Who who really, really wanted to do good I think most people do David I think most people are good people and if given if just given direction and influence.

paulmartinelli: They will they will do the right thing, and so I saw a young person at a young person, myself included, transformed.

paulmartinelli: And and gain confidence and a sense of self worth that you otherwise wouldn’t get there’s something really powerful that, when all of a sudden you’re being recognized for doing something good, whereas most of us were the kids that were getting in trouble for doing something.

David Horsager: And you’ve taken that from where you were, and now you know, President the john Maxwell team, you were and all the work you do just in your own organization now empowered living coaching mentoring speaking.

David Horsager: What does it take to transform as a person, you know we at least, I see a lot of people that.

David Horsager: In fact, I used to ask audiences when we do at our executive trusted events, how many of you want to change a habit.

David Horsager: How many everybody wants to do i’d say now how many have ever changed a difficult habit it’s a habit from from smoking to losing 25 pounds or more to you know some a signal.

David Horsager: Like 6% almost nobody actually has changed a habit how How can people actually do it, how can they actually change from from this whether it’s a habit or a.

David Horsager: You know way they’ve always been a mind shift, but how do they actually change people go to conferences, all the time they go to all kinds of things to hear a podcasting I want to Jay yes that’s gonna be me, you know and then January 2 comes right.

paulmartinelli: Oh yeah.

paulmartinelli: I laugh because January seconds my birthday, I always say it’s the worst birthday, because you know, on that day, you know, everybody quit smoking quit drinking quit eating good doing all the kinds of stuff January 3 would be a great birthday, because that’s when they start again right.


paulmartinelli: But they nobody’s eating the cake, nobody wants to go to dinner nobody wants to cheers.

David Horsager: bye I gotta jump in there, because my birthday is January 1.


David Horsager: i’m a new year’s baby so.

David Horsager: There we go 12121, of the one two punch today.

paulmartinelli: Right, we were both good from the taxes.

David Horsager: Although my dad said he lost so much money and farming that year, I did he didn’t need the tax benefit so.

paulmartinelli: You know here here’s here’s what I here’s what I kind of realizing and believe and know for myself and other people.

paulmartinelli: When we think of what a habit is I think that’s that’s important is is you know habit people saying lab is a behavior and habit is is is not a behavior it’s an expression of a belief.

paulmartinelli: it’s an expression of a composite made of three things are self identity or self image right the image that we hold ourselves and believe other people see in us.

paulmartinelli: it’s our self esteem our personal self regard how I value me and how I believe other people value me they can positive that forms as a self identity or self belief.

paulmartinelli: And we never outperform our own self belief, there was a worker Dr Maxwell multiple the book psycho cybernetics and so a habit is just an expression of an internal belief.

paulmartinelli: And I have always found that the starting point of transformation personal transformation has to be that the person must see themselves complete.

paulmartinelli: And whole in relation to that which they want to change if the starting point is is that i’m broken or I need fixed or and somehow i’m inadequate.

paulmartinelli: or i’m incomplete or something new needs to be added me, in other words, if I don’t see myself as fully resourced, before I begin the likelihood of me.

paulmartinelli: Being able to change is very slim to none, because what I will do is I will look at external conditions and circumstances and try to change from the outside.

paulmartinelli: And it doesn’t work transformation is an inside game it’s a you and you deal it starts with you.

paulmartinelli: And so I think the starting belief is really critical things don’t end well they start badly right, and so, if the starting belief is that i’m fully resourced.

paulmartinelli: that it would be impossible for me to be sourced with the awareness of this idea to change without being fully resourced from that same source that I got the idea to change.

paulmartinelli: It would be impossible for us to be able to have that idea and not be able to manifest it in our lives, so we are fully resource it’s about being able to get congruency in alignment with.

paulmartinelli: who we are, who we see ourselves as you know, who am I, you know you know who we are and who’s we are, and then the beliefs, that would support.

paulmartinelli: The expression of the behavior for that habit belief drives behavior period, end of story if you’re going to make a sustained period of time.

David Horsager: it’s so true we you know, I think.

David Horsager: Bernie brown made it more famous you got to belong first, then you believe, then you behave you know belief comes first, but even I remember you know basic psychology thoughts lead to disastrous lead to actions that always starts over here thoughts, it always starts.

David Horsager: Thinking about as a as a as a man think of the result woman think so, are they you know that we’re you know.

David Horsager: we’ve got to change our thinking to change their behaviors first So how do, how do we do that.

paulmartinelli: yeah I think I think there are several there are several great ways one is get around good people.

paulmartinelli: You know, you know I had an opportunity to do the last interview with Charlie tremendous Jones.

paulmartinelli: And, of course, he shared his you know his his favorite and most famous quote of you know you you your life is the sum total of the composite of the people you you spend time with the books you read the seminars you attend and so.

David Horsager: You know, being I will never forget, when he you know his.

David Horsager: hugging kiss.

David Horsager: Right.

paulmartinelli: He has got a world.

David Horsager: you’ll never forget that, I mean he everybody your tremendous and a hug and kiss that is unforgettable.

paulmartinelli: yeah yeah it’s a shame that so many so many people who are now kind of entering in personal growth in human potential movement missed him right.

paulmartinelli: said, you know many, many, many will miss sick but Charlie tremendous Jones was was a literal giant, but he was a giant and in this idea.

paulmartinelli: But I think you know, being part of this Community right being part of the you know trusted Leader Community so who who your around with I think also you know.

paulmartinelli: You know observational thinking you know what watching what other people do.

paulmartinelli: Really really become a student of human potential and because success does leave clues.

David Horsager: So, how would I do that, how would I do that read a book well how would I, how would I observe.

paulmartinelli: yeah I think I think you know proximity is power, so I think you can do whatever you can do to get as much proximity if the starting point of your proximity is a book get the book.

paulmartinelli: You know I have traveled i’ve traveled all over the world to be able to find you know, a speaker and i’d go anywhere if I could hear a speaker if that speaker had something that I wanted that that speaker and results that I wanted, I would go.

paulmartinelli: You volunteer you put yourself in proximity, most of the people that we would want to be around.

paulmartinelli: Have charities that they are very close to, so we can we, we may not be able to get in the front door of working with their business.

paulmartinelli: But if we were to work in the back door by going into a charity that they love our cause that they love and making a substantial impact there that would lead to an introduction you know that’s how I got to meet.

paulmartinelli: Rich the boss, you know, for me, I mean you talk about you know, a giant, and it really sucks I mean if you want to model someone I mean he was a great one, and you know so so beat being able, being able to.

paulmartinelli: Create that proximity, so if it starts with the book it’s it’s a book if it’s watching their biography then that’s what you do you do whatever you can do you have to be in the relentless pursuit of of getting proximity.

David Horsager: So you know there’s a couple of questions here, because you have created a Community empowered living community.

David Horsager: Where people get around great people and you encourage just tell us a glimpse about what that’s like and how that Community I think people are craving community and if they you know get the right Community they become better because of it right.

David Horsager: So, give us a glimpse of your why you started that and now you know 1.8 million people are a part of it or more probably today, but you know the impact of that community and why even started in the first place.

paulmartinelli: yeah the Community is growing at a 2.3 million people, and it is a, it is a community of tribes, so it is you know, there are the page the Community.

paulmartinelli: started as a Facebook page years and years and years ago, even before there were ads on Facebook, when you could really grow a page, you know now it’s now it’s difficult in social media to really grow a platform.

paulmartinelli: And so that was one of the advantages of you know of the Community was it was an early adopter you know.

paulmartinelli: Seeing seeing this idea of Community and tribes before seth godin wrote the book tribes right.

paulmartinelli: And before the concept was there.

David Horsager: was so first, why did you do it.

David Horsager: Why did you create that Community and then and what now are people getting out what Why are people still coming in it’s growing immensely.

paulmartinelli: For me, I think the reason I started is because.

paulmartinelli: Community was so powerful to me when I was in the guardian angels, it was so powerful, for me, when I was in the dojo and the community within just my my karate association.

paulmartinelli: It was really into when I looked back at my life when was when was when was Paul at his best IT wasn’t when I was alone right, it was when I was with other people and and it was also when I was lifting other people up.

paulmartinelli: You know I always say you know i’m a really good number two so here’s number two to curtis Lee well, I was number two to Bob proctor I was number two to to john Maxwell right.

paulmartinelli: i’m a really good and does number two is les brown i’m a really good number two and of helping other people.

paulmartinelli: You know, get their agenda express and helping you know, helping other people, I think, is what most of us, you know, most of the people who, who are.

paulmartinelli: Probably in your audience would identify themselves as an agent of change right somebody wants to make a difference maker in the lives of other people.

paulmartinelli: they’re not doing that for themselves they’re doing it because at some level they really believe in this idea of being of service to other people and so.

paulmartinelli: I realized that I had you know I had, I had a bigger platform than most people have, and I wanted to give that platform and give people who otherwise would never get a shot a shot and so that’s why I started it.

David Horsager: And what’s that what’s there to keep people I mean it keeps growing what how do they connect like you know you see lots of people trying to.

David Horsager: build social communities and whatever, but it doesn’t last that somehow this one like people there’s a generous feeling there’s a connection there’s the give like what are just a couple of things that are happening there that just keep building community and impact.

paulmartinelli: I think you’ve got a model what you want, seen right.

paulmartinelli: And so you know, one of my one of my life principles is tithing I live my life by it, I talked about it, I teach on it.

David Horsager: I you know I.

paulmartinelli: unabashedly I don’t hide from it.

paulmartinelli: I don’t hide that i’m a person of faith but I don’t I don’t beat people up about it, but I model that, and you know we’ve been able to.

paulmartinelli: really create a big impact when you’ve got that many people if everybody, you know the old you know if everybody gave five bucks we could do something here, you know.

paulmartinelli: And so I was on I was on a trip a leadership development program in Paraguay with john Maxwell and ran across two young kids than 23 years old, and they were 3D printing hands for kids like hank like arms.

paulmartinelli: Very good.

paulmartinelli: And they could print an functional arm for 100 bucks in about two days so Kim would come in they’d measures two days later, the kids running around with with a hand.

paulmartinelli: And thinking for 100 bucks right, so you know I took $50,000 donated it, but then didn’t match with the Community and said, you know i’ll match the first $50,000 and I don’t know, I think we raised close to $200,000 think of think of the just think of the change just you know it’s a hand.

David Horsager: yeah wow.

paulmartinelli: spend, spend the next five hours with your right dominant hand in your pocket and see how how the day goes right and then imagine pulling it out that’s freedom right yeah.

paulmartinelli: No, I think, because we model that in the Community and and we don’t have lots of rules in the Community.

paulmartinelli: And you know you don’t have to you don’t have to sneak ugly promote yourself if you’ve got something you want to promote the scheduled time and we give you the platform for 15 minutes.

paulmartinelli: You know, sell whatever you want, and when we don’t we you know we don’t do affiliates we’re not an affiliate for any of them.

paulmartinelli: So as long look as long as it’s, something that would add value to people, you know, is an alignment with you know our values, you know, is an integrity and we know that you’re going to deliver on it will give you the slot.

David Horsager: mm hmm tell me about this, you know I know you’re known for kind of a.

David Horsager: High Level mastermind group and way that you help people transform over the course of a year and i’m just interested in how people change, you know that’s all we’re about is trying to create.

David Horsager: more trust in the world more higher trust leaders higher trust cultures higher trust global governments are trying to you know.

David Horsager: Be world changers for good, but you have a way you do it, you take leaders through a process, what does that look like, as much as you can share in a moment or two.

paulmartinelli: Sure, it is a year long program because transformation isn’t an event, you know you know that’s it’s a process it’s all really about, if you think about it.

paulmartinelli: From the filter trust it’s about learning to trust yourself that I truly believe that you know the answer is really within us.

paulmartinelli: That you know if we seek ask a knock and look at the kingdom within us it’s all there for us, and so it starts with a two day retreat at my home with about 15 people.

paulmartinelli: And then each person is assigned to coach where their their coach two times two times a month for a whole year, a group meeting once a month, and then a one on one with me.

paulmartinelli: And it’s about understanding our our potential code our model, each one of us has a unique model about how we create a navigate life to create achievement and success.

paulmartinelli: that’s based on a learn model all learning models are based on our awareness our belief in our understanding and application of the principles within the model.

paulmartinelli: And so we’ve kind of taken what call young said, where he said into you make the unconscious conscious that direction, like and you call it fate we’ve kind of taken that approach, where.

paulmartinelli: We guide people through a interactive process where they can look back at their life tweet out those times, where they’ve been successful and then identify you know.

paulmartinelli: What was their model what was what was their motivation, where they moving towards or away from something where they be in a decider or a condenser.

paulmartinelli: Where they when they look at distinctions of sorting were they looking for similarities differences or exclusions, how do they how do they get what is that thinking process.

paulmartinelli: And once they realize that they actually do have a habit of thinking process, and if they can tweet that out, they can see well this code works when I apply this.

paulmartinelli: It works and then it’s about well, then why are you playing small and that’s true if you knew it would work then then let’s let’s dream bigger.

David Horsager: What I love about this is you’re doing it in Community so just back to.

David Horsager: You know guardian angels to to everything in life, like we we say it often you know if you’re doing leadership alone you’re doing it wrong, I mean we need to be together, we need to be.

David Horsager: Where and better things happen doesn’t mean we don’t need individual coaching or help or whatever our coaching Community i’m so proud of it around the world, these these coaches make each other certified trusted coaches, they make each other better, they make their.

David Horsager: Leaders better, but a big part of that is because of togetherness right because.

David Horsager: We can sharpen each other.

paulmartinelli: And you know look I think i’ve built the largest coaching certification program in the world, fair to say, I think your coaches are probably the most resource to coaches you’re going to find in terms of if a if a if a coach needs to be fully equipped and resource right.

paulmartinelli: From soup to NUTS right from soup from beginning to end, I had an opportunity to really look at your program and, as I told you, I mean blown away by by far there isn’t another program that has a richness of resources that that are.

paulmartinelli: That are, I want to say evidence let’s call it evidence base I don’t wanna say science base but let’s say evidence based right, and I think that’s that’s what that’s what establishes the trust right is that you know, trust and verify and your program has all of that.

David Horsager: Thank you well we’re passionate about it that’s for sure and that’s partly because of that not just evidence, but doing the ongoing research, I remember.

David Horsager: You know now I don’t have to convince people so much, but 20 years ago and I started that Grad work, it was like.

David Horsager: Oh trust just a soft skill doesn’t really affect the bottom line that groundwork is what tipped it for people that saw the M and N and actually tip my heart and mind to see the impact of trust you know so.

David Horsager: Tell tell me how does you know, a big word for you is empowerment big word for us is trust they go together, how do you see it.

paulmartinelli: yeah absolutely I don’t really know that you could ever live an empowered life.

paulmartinelli: Without trusting yourself and without without people trusting you at the end of the day, you know.

paulmartinelli: If everything is sales right you talk to a salesperson they’ll say everything in sales if they talked to a leader they’ll say everything is leadership, but it all boils down to trust doesn’t it.

David Horsager: I mean absolutely and empowerment.

David Horsager: Or you know, I think, trusting yourself, you know we believe and know that the the the truth of love your neighbors yourself right which kind of this thing of what if you know people who don’t love themselves at all, they have a hard time loving others well.

David Horsager: And that’s the same with trust.

David Horsager: If you don’t trust yourself at all, you have a hard time building in teams and others, you know it’s like I mean.

David Horsager: I don’t share this very often but I made this commitment when I was losing the 50 pounds in five months about I don’t know 10 years ago I said to my team, if I don’t give you.

David Horsager: If I don’t make it there, you know to this my high school weight by May 1 i’ll give you 2500 bucks you know each and and and of course I knew.

paulmartinelli: My biggest problem wasn’t.

David Horsager: paying the check the biggest problem is I said it and committed to it, and if I don’t get there i’m going to stop trusting myself as much because I made a commitment and didn’t keep it right so anyway, we we want to be leaders that empower others that that do trust themselves.

David Horsager: And we want to be leaders that.

David Horsager: empower others, so they can build trust in their teams and communities and everything everything else I think something interesting you as a leader and you’ve led multimillion dollar several multimillion dollar organizations.

David Horsager: What about you, what about what habits, we find that you know.

David Horsager: least high trust leaders they’re leading themselves, and you know I think Socrates said you don’t lead yourself well it’s hard to lead others or know yourself right he said no yourself so.

David Horsager: We know ourselves, we build trust with ourselves we’re able to lead others well what kind of routines or habits, do you have to lead yourself, while you’re certainly leading a whole lot of others, what do you do is a routines or daily things that you do to lead yourself well.

paulmartinelli: yeah well, thank you, I think there’s probably some big rocks there right I I make a commitment to myself to work out every single day 30 minutes a day you know serious sweat right.

paulmartinelli: and

David Horsager: What do you do I want to come back to other teams, but what do you do because.

David Horsager: Everyone says, I believe in work out, I believe, an exercise but oh I just don’t have time so I don’t really know you know what do you do, how do you make that happen.

paulmartinelli: I have in my in my home, I have an escalator stairs machine like a stairmaster machine, but you know it only goes up.

paulmartinelli: yeah my level level 12 to 15 every day for 30 minutes a day.

David Horsager: you’re not going down I like yeah.

paulmartinelli: You burn you.

paulmartinelli: burn 500 calories in 30 minutes is most effective exercise, you can do and what the reason I choose that exercise is to pre code I try i’m on the road, probably 180 days a year so.

paulmartinelli: in hotels, you know, everybody everybody’s at the gym nobody’s in the stairwell, especially in America nobody’s in stairwell, and so I could I could easily get safe, clean quiet.

paulmartinelli: You know temperature control it’s always cold in the stairwell and up and down and up and down and up and down and i’m done in 30 minutes and you get the best workout of your life.

David Horsager: This is amazing to me because i’m just reading the book by jj virgin she’s a celebrity fitness coach and done all these things she said exactly the same thing to me this week.

David Horsager: stair step stair steps stair step so.

David Horsager: This is a this is fascinating.

paulmartinelli: yeah well, I made a similar columns I lost 65 pounds five years ago and it kept it off.

paulmartinelli: But it did daily commitment right the compounding effect for consistency so so there’s that i’m coached i’ve had the same coach for 10 years and i’m coached every single month so i’ve got somebody who and.

paulmartinelli: I don’t ever bring like you know, an agenda to my to the session, the agenda is one thing one thing only challenge my thinking.

paulmartinelli: JASMINE thinking so I just I just, I just wanted, you know because I, you know I don’t have I don’t have like probably much like you know if you’re the boss if you’re the leader, you know.

paulmartinelli: You don’t have people that necessarily really challenge your thinking or stretch your thinking so I pay somebody to do that, I pay them well and they’ve been with me for 10 years, so they know my bs right they know my beliefs.

paulmartinelli: My beliefs, we know where I limitations are.

paulmartinelli: So there’s that and yeah I mentioned tithing as a practice, you know visualizing praying talking to myself.

paulmartinelli: You know daily.

David Horsager: Tell me about prayer you’re a man of faith tell.

David Horsager: me about prayer for you.

paulmartinelli: yeah so prayer for me is.

paulmartinelli: It is anywhere and everywhere, when I get when I when I get time.

paulmartinelli: alone and and I, and I get time alone every single day, so in between, you know calls, you know I usually have a 10 minute window, that is a fantastic time.

paulmartinelli: And really for me prayer I always viewed prayer as the sacred communication between the finite mind a man in the mind of God, and so it is, it is a communication sometimes i’m talking and asking and sometimes i’m listening.

paulmartinelli: And it’s usually best when I listened.

paulmartinelli: And so I i’ve learned to pray and questions you know you know what what what do I need to know now what am I missing what would make me a better person.

paulmartinelli: How can I serve at a higher level, you know where where, am I going wrong in it like a moral code, not just like a company with this like where, am I going on what am I what am I blind to.

paulmartinelli: So I have a lesson I teach in the process, I use called authentic journaling so it’s just my own model I came up with where I where instead of journaling.

paulmartinelli: i’m transcribing what i’m thinking so I start with a with a big question and then I just write any thought that comes in my mind, sometimes the thought is you know don’t forget to do the laundry don’t forget to.

paulmartinelli: You know, get gas in the car and I write until those jumping monkeys kind of get out of my soul, I quiet that part of my mind down.

paulmartinelli: And then you know God steps in right, and you know when you make space, I always say you can’t make it happen, but you can make it welcome so writing is that is that space for me.

David Horsager: You know wasn’t it, I think, was Mother Teresa on Larry King Larry King asked you know what’s what’s prayer what’s what are you doing you pray and I think she said she said, well, I listen to, well then what’s God do he listens.

David Horsager: Right, so I think I interesting that was just talking, I mean just one hour ago talking to a horse schmaltzy the founder of.

David Horsager: ritz carlton and now he’s you know created one of the most luxurious different capella the one of those luxuries hotel brands in the world and just a fascinating amazing.

David Horsager: gentleman as well, but he had a real call back to morality, think about how do we like we don’t people in the world don’t think about morals there, we have a divided world we can’t listen and we don’t think and we don’t think about the moral impact of you know decision so that was.

David Horsager: A part time.

paulmartinelli: yeah how fascinating.

David Horsager: fascinating that you know you and he built his whole real service on on thinking about others really loving others that’s the whole bill of ritz carlton brand is is how do I love them.

paulmartinelli: I mean a ritz carlton home I bought I bought a.

paulmartinelli: Rich call home and then to like everything with rich rich girl is the best leg brand in the world, I mean, for that reason, you can trust it right its integrity it’s you know.

David Horsager: exactly right well, you have been very generous with our audience and every one listening and I am grateful that you’ve been generous friend to me and i’m grateful for that it’s time for a quick lightning round quick answers and.

David Horsager: let’s let’s go for it right now, what is your favorite book or resource Paul.

paulmartinelli: Thinking grow rich by Napoleon hill.

paulmartinelli: yeah but reading reading this book and this copy this book for 25 years.

David Horsager: If you can lead to become.

David Horsager: Go ahead.

paulmartinelli: I read it once a year, I teach it and i’m in the middle of teaching it for free right I teach it for free every year.

paulmartinelli: And it changed my life.

David Horsager: And it’s it’s, by the way.

David Horsager: For those of you that are just listening by podcast Paul was holding it up.

David Horsager: it’s ripped to shreds there’s no binding anymore, he just got it can basically barely held together but give everybody one.

David Horsager: Three sentence paragraph on the impact of that book.

paulmartinelli: I went from high school dropout janitor earning $20,000 a year when Patrick he gave me the book three years later I was a millionaire.

paulmartinelli: And I followed the process and the principal he says in the book there’s a secret in the book if you can apply the secret to your life can have anything you want, and the secret is is to find what you.

paulmartinelli: want what you desire and to make it an all consuming obsession.

paulmartinelli: And all consumed you can’t want wish you know it, not even a burning desire that’s not enough it’s got to be an all consuming obsession you became you became obsessed with the word trust.

David Horsager: yep.

paulmartinelli: And I still on there you go.

David Horsager: And here we go exactly what’s the best best piece of advice you’ve got so much, but what’s the best piece of advice for trusted leaders.

paulmartinelli: um I heard john Maxwell tell rush limbaugh this, I was in a room when we were buying a million and a half dollars worth of advertising off rush and rush asked john what’s what’s one thing and john said never underestimate the compounding effect of consistency.

David Horsager: And there we go and that’s the final pillar in the pillar framework eight pillars of trust your trusted for whatever you do consistently you’re late all the time i’ll trust you to be late.

David Horsager: You love people all the time.

David Horsager: I trust you love people you know right love it consistency hey Paul you’ve had an amazing life you’ve affected a lot of people and impacted a lot for good what’s one thing left to maybe it’s bucket list, maybe it’s just a hope for the future.

paulmartinelli: yeah I want to really take everything that i’ve done and create kind of a a a micro lab where I could really take.

paulmartinelli: Whether it’s a Community or a neighborhood or a school i’ve been fascinated recently with these people who have.

paulmartinelli: taken over a neighborhood or a school and said i’m going to commit my life for someone think everybody, I know, all my resources and i’m going to create a change and i’ve never done that, like.

paulmartinelli: From now that i’m not that i’m successful and wealthy and now I can do something I haven’t done that yet, and that is my bucket list is to find a neighborhood of school.

paulmartinelli: i’m not clear on what it is, but I know the feeling ton of it and we.

David Horsager: Talk about it later i’ve got some ideas of where you might want to do that.

paulmartinelli: But.

David Horsager: You know, I was just talking to somebody about the transformation that happened in Detroit, of course, a lot of our work in in East Africa there’s a.

David Horsager: Really fun transformation happening in certain places there, but that is wonderful love it you’ll find a whole lot of ways to connect with Paul mark Nelly in the show notes, but tell us just verbally, where is the best place to connect with you.

paulmartinelli: You go to just stop all my le.net Paul Martin le.net is my website and, all things are there yeah.

David Horsager: Perfect this has been a gift, we have one more question the final question.

David Horsager: Unless there’s something else you really want to hear i’m open people can reach out to you.

David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.

paulmartinelli: You know I, I would say, in the last decades the Leader that’s impacted me the most has been john Maxwell.

paulmartinelli: And i’ve had an opportunity, as his business partners his friend to be you know, in the audience with all the other thousand fans and i’ve been able to be in the back of the car.

paulmartinelli: i’ve been able to be you know at the luggage carousel i’ve been able to be you know, in the green room and he’s he’s the real deal and he walks his talk and so, for me, john john would be.

David Horsager: You know I just have to affirm that it was a transformational conversation we got sued together at a banquet a couple years ago it changed the way we created our coaching certification and business that you talked.

David Horsager: spoke highly of, and that was a moment of change, for how are we going to you know.

David Horsager: Certified coaches, so that they can impact others and help them impact the root cause the real issues, the challenges in a way that is built totally an abundance thinking you got everything.

David Horsager: You had access to everything, and that was, by the way, a tipping point was a conversation with john and of course we’re especially grateful that he.

David Horsager: endorsed the book on the cover and the new trusted leader book, but I can’t affirm that more and I just um yeah I agree.

David Horsager: Paul Martin le what a treat to be with you can’t wait to be together again I hope in person before along, but thank you, thank you, thank you, thanks for sharing your insights your wisdom.

David Horsager: there’s so much here we’re going to put it in some great notes and pull up the highlights, you know where you can all find out more, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 29: Dave Cornell on Why You Should Be Courageous But NOT Fearless

In this episode, David sits down with Dave Cornell, Founder of Cultivate Courage, LLC, Speaker, Coach, and Trainer, to discuss why you should be courageous but NOT fearless.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Dave’s Bio:
Dave is the founder of Cultivate Courage, LLC. Dave’s business is focused on three areas; Speaking, Coaching and Training. Dave’s powerful presentation, Cultivate Courage, focuses on fear, change and courage and how they affect individuals and organizations, is well received by audiences and has been a launching pad for performance development and personal improvement. His training focuses on the DISC behavioral profile, effective communication and conflict resolution. Dave also serves as the Senior Consultant with David Horsager’s Trust Edge Leadership Institute. Dave and his wife, Amy, have been married for 39 years. They immensely enjoy time with their two grown daughters, son-in-law and four grandchildren. He also enjoys golf, basketball, and anything with a comedic bent.

Dave’s Links:
Website: http://cultivatecourage.com/
“Cultivate Courage” by Dave Cornell: https://amzn.to/3bjQjrQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cultivatecourage
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cultivatecourag
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ddcornell/

Key Quotes:
1. “Reading is one of the things I’ve embraced.”
2. “Reading and exercise are huge.”
3. “I love to help people have ah-ha moments.”
4. “I love helping people get better.”
5. “It’s important to ask open ended questions.”
6. “So much of what we do in our lives are defaults. We just act and react because that’s the way we’ve always done.”
7. “Anytime we step out, we grow.”
8. “Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.” – John Wayne
9. “This is not about becoming fearless.”
10. “If we strive to become fearless we’re never going to do anything.”
11. “It’s about recognizing the need to be courageous.”
12. “Never underestimate the value of a crisis.”
13. “Courage is about taking steps, not knowing what the second step is going to be.”
14. “Courage is stepping into our fear not knowing what’s next.”
15. “This irrational fear that holds us back is selfish.”
16. “You need to visit with trusted people.”
17. “When we live in fear, it holds us captive.”
18. “One of the simple steps in this process is recognizing the power of the word maybe.”
19. “It’s all about the mindset.”
20. “A lot of the reason that people don’t want to give deadlines is because then they have to hold people accountable.”
21. “Fear calls us to be spectators, courage calls us to get in the game.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Dream Big” by Bob Goff: https://amzn.to/33BhZUw
“The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni: https://amzn.to/3ogv1Rf
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3tAnUnI
“The One Year Uncommon Life Daily Challenge” by Tony Dungy: https://amzn.to/3f9SS0t
“Cultivate Courage” by Dave Cornell: https://amzn.to/3bjQjrQ
Top 20 Training: https://top20training.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome back to the trusted leader show. Should I just welcome to it that’s there. Oh, yeah, yeah.

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer, we have a special guest today. He’s a dear friend of mine. He’s been a senior trust edge consultant, he’s

David Horsager: created his own business all around courage, he’s paid played professional basketball in Europe. He’s a grandfather of husband and he’s a friend and really an influencer of many. Thank you so much for being on today. Dave Cornell.

Dave Cornell: David, it is such an honor and pleasure to be with you. I am so looking forward to our conversation today.

David Horsager: Likewise, I am, this is going to be super fun and before the end of the day, we’re going to look at something very specific

David Horsager: Around courage and how you can be a more courageous leader. And certainly, you know, people often ask me,

David Horsager: As far as trust is a you talk about those seeds that came out of the research, those, those eight sees those eight pillars of trust, if there’s another. See, what would it be and I said immediately, it would be courage it takes courage.

David Horsager: To build trust often and just to lead well and be a trusted leader. So we’re going to jump into that, but before we do a look. Let’s let people know you a little bit. Tell us three things that we should know about Dave Cornell.

Dave Cornell: Wow, three things that you should know about me is I guess I’m a family guy that I think is one, first and foremost, one of the things that I love.

Dave Cornell: I’m a husband of my wife, Amy. We’ve got two daughters Sarah and Caitlin our son in law Tyler and then we’ve got four grandkids Halle Josiah Troy and Theo.

Dave Cornell: And they are all the the joys and the loves of my life. I am a believer. I’m a Christian. And that first and foremost is really what guides me and

Dave Cornell: Directs my paths in everything that I do and then I’m, I’m a big sports fan and I’m a guy that loves to laugh. I’m kind of a humor snob. I’ll say.

Dave Cornell: It takes a lot to make me laugh and and but I I love to laugh. And so I think those are I think I might have given you, for there, but hopefully that’s okay.

David Horsager: That’s good you are, and you’re a fun guy and what people don’t know about you, and I’ve said this often I think he’s the best leadership coach in the country and

David Horsager: Dave Cornell. In fact, we were just talking about me and Dave, you still work with us. And even though you run your own business and you still do.

David Horsager: For our clients help solve some of the biggest trust challenges they have and you in fact just yesterday, we got a sincere testimonial from the dean of a widely known.

David Horsager: Big prestigious university in the United States, a just a testimonial of the work you’ve done with some of their senior leaders that have been immensely impactful and of course you’ve been on

David Horsager: Many of our projects. A lot of our work with our enterprise trust index, a big project with a global

David Horsager: Pharmaceutical that just had a merger and is working on building trust and you’ve been intimately involved in that trust edge product and you but

David Horsager: You know, I could talk about all these projects I’ve seen the testimonials, which is why we we keep meeting you and wanting you to be on these products, but you’ve been a friend and I’m proud of that and grateful for that. And your coaching has made me better so

David Horsager: You know, we talked about trust and and we talked about being a trusted leader.

David Horsager: And a lot of times that starts with our own habits. These little things we do. What are some things you kind of make sure you do

David Horsager: You know you a seasoned leader. You’ve been a big companies, you’ve created your own company or an entrepreneur, but what what are the things you do to to be a high trust leader every day.

Dave Cornell: You know, I think when it comes to habits reading is one of the, one of the things that I’ve really embraced over the last several years, I’ve always been a

Dave Cornell: Reader, but really have embraced it these last several years, and looking for books that

Dave Cornell: That challenge me that helped me to grow and I’m there’s some people that I love to read Bob golf is one of the guys that I love to read Patrick len Sione is another one mark Batson Tony Dungy, those are some of my favorite authors that

Dave Cornell: That their, their books that are fun to read, but they also challenge me and they helped me to grow.

Dave Cornell: One thing I haven’t done as well as I would like to over the last several years, but I’m getting into it more and more now is exercise and I am I just got back a little bit ago from

Dave Cornell: A two and a half mile walk. We’re at about 30 degrees here right now up in Fergus Falls, Minnesota, but to get outside and get some exercise and some fresh air.

Dave Cornell: Really clears my mind and helps me to process the things that I’m reading process, the people that I’m coaching and and so those I think really are two of the habits that have been very helpful for me reading an exercise are huge.

David Horsager: Funny about the walking. I said this on a different episode but you know when I lost the 52 pounds in five and a half months about a decade ago and I’ve kept most of it off.

David Horsager: One person inspired me was an executive coach that said the best exercise for you, David will be actually walking

David Horsager: Not, you know, a lot of building the best exercises swimming, and I certainly like to swim now and do triathlons some of these kind of things but

David Horsager: Back then he’s like, start by walking and walking with weights, specifically, he believes cross country skiing is the best exercise. There is even though he was the most highly decorated UCLA swim coach for

David Horsager: You know, like 56 national champions something crazy like that. He said, walking. Walking with weights, getting the weight above your heart so

David Horsager: I was one of those crazy guys for a long time that look walked around with weights above my, you know, but pumping little, little 510 pound weights, but walking is so great a forever activities. Certainly.

Dave Cornell: Well thank you David for that tip on on with the weights, because that’s something I’m not doing and can incorporate very easily.

David Horsager: Well, he talked about 60% more a heart health by just getting away even your hand above your heart so

David Horsager: Interesting idea he recommends five pound weights. I’ve gotten up to where I like to do 10 or eight, but, um, you know, I can go quite a while that way. And I do some different things with them than my switch it up with

David Horsager: My hands but but anyway, it’s a good idea and he made a big impact on my

David Horsager: Life change.

Dave Cornell: Yeah.

David Horsager: You know, living healthier for sure. So love that, you know, my parents 91 dad’s 91 know up on the farm. But they go, what I call them and mom will set you know every, every morning I mama. Yep. I just got back from my four and a half mile walk

David Horsager: Yeah. Well, I just got back from my two and half mile walk, you know, so it seems to work for people

David Horsager: Yeah. Anyways, certainly, so

David Horsager: Yeah, let’s go to that reading you know sometimes I have the quote and in speeches where at least at one point when I did the research or saw the research, you know, the average hours.

David Horsager: A person who watches TV annually, which is usually kind of not that great of input 1200 and 87 annually average number of books and American reads in their lifetime, at least over 200 pages where it’s not just a kid book when you’re putting the kids the night night, you know, was one

David Horsager: Every after their after their after their formal education was done whether that was I school degree or PhD and

David Horsager: You know that that reading that’s can be such good input. The late famous Charlie Jones said you’re gonna be the exact same person today.

David Horsager: In five years as you are today except for the people you surround yourself with the books you read, so

David Horsager: There’s other ways to get input electronically today but books are certainly one of the best thought out, you know, valuable places to gain gain insight and we’re going to get into the book that you’ve written, but

David Horsager: Tell us about when you know that habits hard for people because it’s not a neat. You don’t have to do it, you have to eat, you have to sleep.

David Horsager: When do you carve out time in your busy schedule as an entrepreneur consultant, a grandparent. And when you when you carve out time to do it. What’s the discipline there.

Dave Cornell: You know I’m fortunate to be part of a mastermind group every Wednesday morning where we go through a different book every month. And so it’s a book that’s selected for our group, there’s

Dave Cornell: Six to eight of us, depending on on the Wednesday night, everybody’s always able to join us.

Dave Cornell: But that has been a great discipline for me, knowing that we’re going to discuss

Dave Cornell: Whatever chapters were assigned for that week. And so it’s a matter for me probably three or four nights a week where I’ll just sit down in the living room.

Dave Cornell: And start reading my book and I’ll depending on how much time I’ll have, but it’s it’s just, again, it’s my wife and I were empty nesters. And so we’ve got time in these coven times in particular.

Dave Cornell: Rather than turning on the TV. And I’m not saying that I never do that. I do. But I always try to carve out, you know, some time three or four nights a week to read

David Horsager: I love it. That also speaks to accountability and you and I both have seen the same statistic, which if you have a goal you have 10% chance of accomplishing

David Horsager: If you have a goal with accountability of 95% chance of accomplishing it you’ve got that accountability built in every week to get

David Horsager: Better and

David Horsager: I love that. And it you even I’m sure the value goes even up because you discuss it.

Dave Cornell: Oh, without question, and it’s it’s with people who obviously are looking at the book from their perspectives, so they they

Dave Cornell: share insights with me. Maybe that I didn’t pick up and that discussion, as you mentioned, David is so huge in in helping us to build each other up and encourage each other up and and to pick up insights that maybe we missed

David Horsager: Love it. What motivates you. These days to do the work you’re doing.

Dave Cornell: Wow, that’s an interesting question and and it goes back, you know, we talked before about the coaching. One of the things that I love to do in my work is I help. I love to help people have aha moments.

Dave Cornell: And in the coaching that we do around the trust edge book, there are people that that as I go into the coaching with them and ask them questions.

Dave Cornell: It has happened. Virtually every time, or I get people to go, wow. I’d never thought of that before and I love helping people.

Dave Cornell: Get better. And for me that’s what I’m passionate about and when, when people can start to see things in a different way.

Dave Cornell: That’s what drives me and what what motivates me is, is to help people to get better and to help people help people to see things in a different way and to overcome things that they may be thought that they could never overcome.

David Horsager: What does that look like what’s, what’s it, what is it to be a great coach, because, you know, I see the feedback when we, you know, I know the trust work, but the way you coach it

David Horsager: How do you, how do you get the best. How do you help them have an aha moment that actually has some, you know, people throw transformation. Transformation. But, you know, we’ve seen real transformation. We’ve seen that happen, how do you actually help create a petri dish where that can happen.

Dave Cornell: You know, it’s an interesting thing, Dave, one of the, one of the things that I like to do with every coaching client is I like to start with the disc behavioral profile.

Dave Cornell: What that does is it helps me to see how the person I’m coaching how they view the world. And then as I coach them. I can ask them questions based on how they see the world.

Dave Cornell: And help them to recognize that not everybody else sees the world, the very same way that they do. And that really is an eye opener for people. I know the first time that I took the disc. When I was 32 years old.

Dave Cornell: Wow, it was a smack upside the head and and I thought at that point in time. If you didn’t see the world the way that I saw.

Dave Cornell: That you were wrong and you needed to get with the program.

Dave Cornell: And so that’s why I like the disc is because it helps people to recognize. Oh, that there are different ways to see the world that different people see it differently.

Dave Cornell: And so it helps me to coach them, give them a better coaching process because I can help them to begin to see how they see the world and that not everybody else sees it in the same way.

Dave Cornell: Then it comes down to listening and asking really good questions. So I think those are the keys for me.

David Horsager: So as a coach that helps people transform and certainly, you got to have the right content. We believe in this trust content we but how we do it. Any other tips on

David Horsager: If I’m whether it’s my daughter or my executive or my manager. Any other tips on whether it’s specifically you know questions I asked her, kind of a framework. Anything else on what I could do to be a better coach as a trusted leader.

Dave Cornell: You know, I think so much of it comes down to, like, specifically when we’re talking about the kinds of questions we ask

Dave Cornell: It’s, it’s important to ask obviously open ended questions so that you give people

Dave Cornell: The opportunity to really start to dig deep and a question. I love to ask. And I remember when I was going through my coaching certification. They told us never ask why.

Dave Cornell: And I believe that that’s one of the best questions that we can ask, because it really puts people in a position where they have to start to dig deeper. So much of what we do in our lives.

Dave Cornell: Our defaults. We just act and react, because that’s the way that we’ve always done and we don’t think about why we do things the way that we do them.

Dave Cornell: And so I think it’s about asking good open ended questions and then beginning to challenge and go deeper with people and asking people, again, another great question.

Dave Cornell: How do you feel about that. How do you think the other person feels about how do you think the people that report to you feel when you respond in that way.

Dave Cornell: So I think getting those feeling questions which are hard for a lot of people to to process and to respond to. But those are the things that I like to do as a coach.

David Horsager: You know, you just maybe jump back to about a decade ago got invited to Larry King’s home you know many of our younger generation. Probably my producer over here can’t won’t even know that name.

David Horsager: But at the time, you know, he’s one of the he was the most known journalist in the world.

David Horsager: And I’m there with a few leaders in his amazing, you know, I think Rodale drive and wherever it was there in California and

David Horsager: We’re, we’re gathering in his living room gathered in his living room and you know we get to ask him a few questions. I remember the question said

David Horsager: You know, you know you are known as the best question asked her in the world. I mean, you’re the greatest journalist in the world. You’ve, you’ve interviewed every president than every you know that you can’t couldn’t find somebody he hadn’t interviewed. It was a

David Horsager: Saturday right on Larry King Live and what’s your, what’s your favorite question to ask. And without hesitation Larry said why

Dave Cornell: Wow.

David Horsager: Yeah, I said, because why motivates people

David Horsager: Yeah why shows their purpose why gets under their, their kind of their motivation for for all the other things. So he said, Now, as you know, in my work on clarity, I believe the greatest question to take an idea to an action is how

David Horsager: Yes, but the motivating question is the why so fun to hear you say that. You gotta, you gotta if you’re going to coach people got to know their motivations. Right.

Dave Cornell: Yeah, exactly.

Dave Cornell: Exactly right.

David Horsager: Yeah, so you’re big on helping people get better and I want to especially get your courage work in a moment. But how are you getting better, these days.

Dave Cornell: Well, I think one of the real blessings for me, David has been working with you and the work

Dave Cornell: The work that I’ve had the opportunity to do with the pharmaceutical company that you reference has really helped me to grow because I’ve been doing stuff for you that I’ve not done in the past.

Dave Cornell: So I’m digging deeper into the trust work as I prepare for the presentations that I’m doing.

Dave Cornell: So that’s been tremendous and helping me grow the book club that I that I mentioned earlier, has been a tremendous

Dave Cornell: Benefit to me and helping me to grow as I look at one of the projects that I’m working on right now is creating an online course for myself.

Dave Cornell: And that again is taking me to places that make me uncomfortable and are requiring me to grow and do things that I don’t, I’m not comfortable doing. And anytime we step out

Dave Cornell: We we grow. And so I’ve been fortunate with the work I’m doing with you with my mastermind group and now with this project that I’m working on those are things that are helping me to grow right now.

David Horsager: Love it. Well, Dave Cornell everybody that knows you other than a really fun guy a really tall guy a really great guy.

David Horsager: If they were going to put one word.

David Horsager: Today, granola, I would say, Dave Cornell knows courage and your the courage expert you’ve written this book. Everybody can find it and go to Amazon. It’s cultivate courage and so I want to jump into this a little bit. Tell us where this came from.

Dave Cornell: You know, I lost my job back in January of 2010 so 11 years ago now and at the time I didn’t realize how bad the economy was. That was the the recession time December to 2008 to 2012 2013

Dave Cornell: I thought I’d find a job pretty quickly. But I, I didn’t. My wife lost her job 13 months later, over the course of that time I

Dave Cornell: was diagnosed with situational depression and with the help of a Wonderful Counselor, she helped me to recognize the role that fear had played in my, in my life and

Dave Cornell: The need to begin to do things courageously during that time, we ended up. We didn’t lose our home. But we ended up having to sell our home as we went through.

Dave Cornell: All of our savings and so we were in our mid 50s in 2011 now we had no jobs. We had no home and we had no money and so

Dave Cornell: I had to start to it because I wasn’t finding work. I had to start to find ways to create work you were instrumental in that David in that process for me.

Dave Cornell: But then also with the help of this counselor beginning to recognize

Dave Cornell: How fear had really held me captive for many, many years. And I began to write down the things that I was learning with my counselor and this this book and the the the talk, the presentation that I give on courage all developed out of that process.

David Horsager: And I was fortunate enough to get to write the the forward to

Dave Cornell: That

David Horsager: And I still remember the story I wrote in the forward so you know I’m 12 years old. I’m riding my horse, I get my foot cotton, the stirrup I get drugs and drugs and drug and between the legs and and think I’m going to die under the under the horse because only one leg is caught in the

David Horsager: Saddle at 12 years old when that horses running across the field and I’m being drugged on the ground. Finally, my foot slips out and I, my dad quarter mile away sees it comes over to me and I’m scared to death. I’m shaking I’m

Dave Cornell: Okay.

David Horsager: And I remember what he says. I didn’t even I don’t even know if he had to say it because we knew this about horses get back on the horse.

David Horsager: Wow. For me as much, maybe for me, too. But what you can do is you can ruin a horse. If you don’t get back on and they think they can get away with that and you hear that all the time that horses ruined. No one can get on that.

David Horsager: Horse again because of the, you know, no one somebody didn’t get back on and I knew I had to get up back on that horse and I remember 12 years old, shaking

David Horsager: And sitting on that horse, and I knew you know little tears and my dad knew how hard it would be for me, but he knew I had to do it for me and for the horse sitting on that horse and walking home and

David Horsager: I just, I’m grateful for that moment of the push, sometimes a push or an encouragement toward courage. When you don’t feel like it can be the thing and I see you doing that with

David Horsager: Our team and as a certified in a senior consultant for us with others that we serve, but also with your own clients of how you’re kind of this

David Horsager: This push toward take the next step.

David Horsager: Yeah, be of courage and I’m grateful for my dad, you know, doing that for me, but

David Horsager: Tell us kind of the core concept of, you know, wanting us to get into the frame a little bit because I think that was so valuable for me when you lead through about maybe before that.

David Horsager: You know this this whole courage. What, what, what can we learn I were scared as you and I both see

David Horsager: imposter syndrome and leaders we in our work we’ve been able to work with presidents of countries and presidents of companies and we know underneath it. Many of them are looking a certain way, but they’re scared to death that they’re going

Dave Cornell: To be


David Horsager: Found out and they’re scared to make the courageous choice. What, what would you say to them.

Dave Cornell: Well, I think that the real key here, David. And it’s interesting you tell the story that you share in the forward.

Dave Cornell: One of my favorite quotes that I share often when I speak comes from john wayne the movie cowboy courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

Dave Cornell: And so this is not about becoming fear less we we often hear and people say, you know, it’s all about becoming fearless. And I think if if we strive to become fearless. We’re never going to do anything.

Dave Cornell: It’s about wrecking the need that recognizing the need to be courageous and I think one of the things that I talk about first is never underestimate the value of a crisis.

Dave Cornell: I look back at that time when my wife and I lost our jobs and lost our home. It was a crisis time in our lives. I can tell you today though because we went through that time.

Dave Cornell: We are better people for it and I’m glad that it happened, doesn’t mean I ever want it to happen again.

Dave Cornell: But it’s in those crisis times in our lives where we learn and we grow and we’re challenged to do and become what we don’t think that we can become

Dave Cornell: And then I outline really three points in the book, and we can discuss them to whatever level you want to David. But first, is to name your fear.

Dave Cornell: You have to acknowledge that you have this fear. Maybe it’s a fear of of having a difficult conversation with an employee. Maybe it’s a fear of applying for a position that you don’t think that you’re quite ready for

Dave Cornell: It’s all kinds of but it’s about naming it acknowledge it. I say, it’s like being an alcoholic or a drug addict. If we’re not willing to acknowledge it. We’re never going to change it.

Dave Cornell: Step two is to frame your fear begin to see your fear in a whole different way and I think we’ll talk a little bit more about that.

Dave Cornell: In a little bit, David. And the last is to claim your courage and courage is about taking steps.

Dave Cornell: Not knowing what the second step is going to be so we know that maybe on the first step. It’s to go online to fill out the online application that’s step one. We don’t know what. Step two is

Dave Cornell: That’s what courage is. Courage isn’t waiting for everything to be all lined up courage is stepping into our fear not knowing what’s next.

David Horsager: Love it. So let’s take someone through it. We’ve got all different levels of challenges, but

David Horsager: You know, people have been through last year with the

David Horsager: Pandemic they had to fire people, they should have fired or let go earlier they waited because they weren’t courageous to do it.

Dave Cornell: Yeah.

David Horsager: You had people that should have had difficult conversations they were too scared to do it and their companies are tanking because of it. So,

David Horsager: Let’s take the CEO, the leader. They got a really difficult thing they’ve named it, it’s a difficult discussion. It’s a difficult conversation. But what about that jumping into the frame once they’ve named it

Dave Cornell: Yeah, you have to you. We see everything in a certain way and and the frame is much like a picture frame we start in the upper left hand corner with

David Horsager: It. I don’t know if you can see it, but this is what page 48. And the book is a great diagram of it.

Dave Cornell: Yeah, and and it’s it’s the word si se the way that we see things about people or other situations.

Dave Cornell: impacts how we’re going to feel about something. So we go to the upper right hand corner. Feel what we feel affects what we do, which is the lower right hand corner.

Dave Cornell: What we do affects what we get the outcome. And then our get takes us back up to our see. So in essence it’s the self fulfilling prophecy. So if we only see something in one way

Dave Cornell: And we and we continue to feel and do and get the same result. We’re not going to get anywhere. So we have to begin to see things in a different way.

Dave Cornell: And and let’s take the CEO who has a difficult decision to make. For me, the epiphany moment in this journey. David was recognizing

Dave Cornell: That that this kind of fear that holds us back this irrational fear that holds us back is selfish.

Dave Cornell: And by that, what I mean is if I’ve been given the gift. And this was my case. Now, if I’ve been given the gift of communication and the gift of

Dave Cornell: Telling stories and sharing them in a way that will make a difference for others, and I don’t do that because I’m afraid I’m not good enough, I’m afraid. Nobody wants to hear what I have to say. But yet, that’s my gift.

Dave Cornell: That’s selfish on my part to not share it. That was the epiphany moment the recognition of. Whoa. If I don’t do this. That’s selfish. So let’s take a look at the at the CEO.

Dave Cornell: Who has an employee that needs to be let go and this employee is impacting other people around them, it’s impacting their bottom line, but they’re afraid of what this employee might do or say or

Dave Cornell: They’ve had a personal relationship with them. And so they’re afraid of what might happen with that.

Dave Cornell: And yet, keeping that person on is impacting everybody else. It is selfish to hang on to that employee for personal reasons.

Dave Cornell: Because it’s having an impact on the organization. It’s having an impact on employees and you likely are losing other employees who are leaving because they don’t see you taking action that’s a kind of a quick summary. Hopefully that made sense.

David Horsager: I love it. I think that’s this reframing it to selfishness and understanding that that we’re selfish when we don’t

David Horsager: Really when we aren’t don’t act courageously

David Horsager: Exactly still scary.

David Horsager: Day. Yes, it’s still scary.

David Horsager: I don’t want to. How am I gonna, I mean, come on. I need something more. How am I gonna see it differently.

Dave Cornell: Well, I think one of the things that you need to do is you need to visit with trusted people

Dave Cornell: You need to sit down and have conversations with people that you trust and share that fear, again, it goes back to not step number one.

Dave Cornell: acknowledge it, share it, write it down on a piece of paper, get it out there is

Dave Cornell: When we live in fear. It holds us captive and getting it out verbalizing it or sharing it take some of the power away. And so I think first and foremost, and

Dave Cornell: I am hoping that most CEOs have a group of trusted friends that challenge them that encourage them and I think that’s where it starts, is you have to share it with somebody else.

Dave Cornell: Get their input get their feedback. And you know what happens when we do this, David is they say,

Dave Cornell: That happened to me. Let me tell you what I did. And let me tell you the difference that it made

Dave Cornell: And so it’s so critical. Again, first to get it out, then you need to begin as you begin to frame it and see it differently. You need to begin to write out. Okay, here’s how I see it now.

Dave Cornell: What other ways might I see this. Wow, I didn’t even think about it impacting my other employees. I didn’t even think about it impacting my clients.

Dave Cornell: And yet it does so we have to begin to see what is the impact not just on the personal piece with this employee. But what is the impact with everything around

Dave Cornell: And then we have to begin to have a strategy to courageously step into it. We have to have a plan. So, okay, I’ve got this employee and I need to let them go.

Dave Cornell: I’m going to set the date that on, you know, Monday, January 11 I’m having this conversation with this person. I’m going to sit down with HR and go through, make sure we’ve got all our ducks in a row.

Dave Cornell: But you need to have a plan on here’s what we’re going to do. Here’s why we’re going to do it and make sure that all of your HR appropriate steps are in place so that you can do it.

Dave Cornell: But it’s naming it framing it and then taking those courageous steps and it’s hard, David. You’re right. And I’ll tell you, sometimes it’s hard to be the courage guy because I have these recognitions of my need to be courageous.

David Horsager: You don’t get you don’t get a pass.

Dave Cornell: Yeah, that’s exactly

Dave Cornell: Right, it’s right that’s the same with trust. We’re in a glass bowl. It’s like a you talk about trust, you better you know be perfect, right.

David Horsager: Live. That’s why the in in in workshops. The first thing I say speeches or whatever. It’s like I’m not perfect at any of this.

David Horsager: I didn’t know it’s true from the research right

David Horsager: I like it. This is, this is great. So

David Horsager: Any so if I went I saw it, I, I went through this process of framing, then in that third the claim Kurt. Where’s the plan.

Dave Cornell: Well, the plan and I outside outlined some different steps in there that I did the plan can be very different for each person.

Dave Cornell: But I think one of the one of the very simple steps in this process is recognizing the power of the Word, maybe

Dave Cornell: I used to tell myself David and you helped me a great deal in this process, but I used to tell myself I wanted to own my own business and be a speaker.

Dave Cornell: But I would tell myself very definitively even though this is what I wanted to do. I could never make my living as a speaker and a coach and a trainer.

Dave Cornell: And then I learned with the help of some friends. The word putting the word maybe in front of that maybe I could never make my living as a speaker and a coach and a trainer.

Dave Cornell: But then what happens is there’s a little crack of hope in that and hope is such a powerful thing.

Dave Cornell: And then it’s about love. Again, the process for everybody is going to be very different. But when you say I can’t let that person go

Dave Cornell: Maybe you can’t let that person go but maybe you can. And then you begin to outline. Okay, how am I going to do this and that may be different for everybody so

Dave Cornell: That’s one of the things that’s hard with this David is to give a very definitive process, but I think it’s the first thing is to recognize what is the first step that you need to take and maybe the first step is simply I need to decide that I’m gonna let this person go. Step one.

David Horsager: Yeah, I love it. So before the plan. I’ve met you know this is the power of maybe maybe gets kicked around like the bad word.

David Horsager: Yeah, actually, it gives hope and I think it’s interesting. The last podcast I had, you know, basically the gift that this person’s dad, who happened to be the principal of a school in a very tough.

David Horsager: Area of Chicago said that what he gave those young students in urban Chicago was he gave him hope.

David Horsager: I mean there’s such power in hope. Right.

Dave Cornell: And I think

David Horsager: For me, you know, when I learned a way to lose weight back when I lost 50 pounds I you know people to eat less, exercise more, that wasn’t clear enough right but but when when I got an idea. I actually gave me hope.

David Horsager: This may be cracks open the door for hope is, if we can give hope there’s a whole lot of power like

David Horsager: To believe this could happen. And that’s the start of a mind shift that really matters.

Dave Cornell: Right. Right. Yeah. And and David. You’re so right. It’s all about the mindset and and i remember when and this is some friends that taught me the frame and taught me the word maybe

Dave Cornell: From an organization called Top 20 training that do amazing work in schools and and they allowed me to use this work and my work and

Dave Cornell: That word maybe and hope is such a critical piece and again for me as a Christian. It’s a it was a whole revelation for me to recognize that power of hope and and to get people to see that.

Dave Cornell: Maybe I can’t. But you know what, maybe I can I think of Roger Bannister the first man to ever break the four minute mile

Dave Cornell: And people said it would never happen people’s no one will ever break the four minute mile but Roger Bannister did

Dave Cornell: And he put that word, maybe, maybe nobody will. But maybe somebody. And I don’t remember what the statistics are but over the course of the next two years. There were like another 10 or 12 people that did it because of the power of hope.

David Horsager: Yeah, absolutely. So if I’m going to do the process basically and not to oversimplify it people should get the book cultivate courage and and and hire you and hire us

David Horsager: Maybe

David Horsager: Maybe they shave anyways but but you’ve got, you’re going to name the fear, you’re going to frame the fear and then you’re going to claim courage.

David Horsager: But am I right here when it the creating the plan stage for dealing with that is that going to be right before. Number three, claiming is that part of number three.

Dave Cornell: It’s, it’s part of number three. It’s it. First of all, you have to recognize hopefully after steps one and two, you recognize

Dave Cornell: Time for me to do something courageous. So how am I going to do that. And that’s where you begin to to step into that courage and

Dave Cornell: And one of the things that I that I talked about. It’s one of the steps is recognize that the fear will always be there.

Dave Cornell: So again, as I said, this is not about becoming fearless. It is rather about becoming courageous. So step one is to recognize the fear will be there.

Dave Cornell: When you have that conversation with that employee, you’re likely going to be a little bit scared about what it’s going to be like

Dave Cornell: But if you’ve done your homework and done all the things you should do in advance. You can go into that, knowing that you can handle that difficult conversation and so

Dave Cornell: It’s about. It’s about taking little steps, not knowing maybe what the next step is even going to be. And that’s often the case.

David Horsager: I love it, a process for being more courageous and it doesn’t mean you won’t be fearful there.

Dave Cornell: Yes.

David Horsager: As we know, fear can be very good.

David Horsager: Fear yes right thing

David Horsager: I’m so yes, lad. You know, I’m scared to walk in the middle the road when somebody comes by. I’m so scared. I’m I don’t want to you know get too close to that cliff. I’m so glad I’m scared of taking drugs for what could happen right i mean

David Horsager: The fear is such a great thing, but it can be terrible.

David Horsager: Yes, that’s when we need to have courage. So how is this worked with your, you know, your trust work you’ve been you’ve been doing so much trust work you’ve been doing so much courage work. How have you put them together. And how’s that worked.

Dave Cornell: You know, I think it’s been really interesting. The, the synergy between courage and trust and really the synergy between

Dave Cornell: Each of the pillars and I’ll give you, I’ll give you one example, we’ll start with the first pillar, the pillar of clarity so often I have

Dave Cornell: In coaching or I found myself in this situation where a manager or leader will be up in front of the room and they’ll say, Here’s what our plan is for the next year. And here’s what our expectations are.

Dave Cornell: And I’m sitting there, confused, and the manager or leader will say any questions. And I’m sitting there.

Dave Cornell: Looking around nobody nobody’s raising their hand. And so I think I must be the only one who’s confused here.

Dave Cornell: And and so in clarity. It’s about the courage to ask, Hey, I’m not sure what’s expected of me here. Can you go through that again for me.

Dave Cornell: And so often we sit back and then and then when the meetings over we go talk with somebody else that by the water cooler and they say, did you get what he just said.

Dave Cornell: And it’s about having the courage to raise your hand and ask the question.

Dave Cornell: It’s about having the courage as the leader to say, you know what I know, I often don’t communicate very well, so hey Bill, just so I know I’ve communicated appropriately. Can you tell me what I’ve asked you to do.

Dave Cornell: So that’s included. That’s it. That’s an example of the courage to ask the questions just in the clarity pillar and it happens in every single pillar and I know we don’t have time to go through all them. But that’s one example, David.

David Horsager: I love it. Courage asked questions. I was just thinking about that, you know, one of the one of the little quick ideas we teach managers is Odissi

David Horsager: Maybe

David Horsager: You’ve given a clear outcome clear deadline. Clear. Clear and leave left room for clarifying questions and that deadline. People just don’t want to give it because they’re scared to death that it’ll create conflict when not giving it will create conflict.

David Horsager: And

David Horsager: I am very clear here at the Institute.

David Horsager: That

David Horsager: I am not good at all these things. I teach, and I’ll tell you what, and has the courage. Every time to say, David, what’s the deadline, then you you teach this stuff. But what’s the NGOs to stand up and bravery, by the way that you didn’t do you

David Horsager: Mean the deadline. Yeah.

David Horsager: Yeah, so

Dave Cornell: It’s great to work with people that

David Horsager: Have the courage.

Dave Cornell: And clean, you know,

David Horsager: Where people can have it.

Dave Cornell: Yeah, and the David. The interesting thing too is a lot of the reason that people don’t want to give deadlines is because then they have to hold people accountable.

Dave Cornell: And it takes courage to hold people accountable and that comes back to the commitment pillar and so courage is interwoven in so in in all the pillars really

David Horsager: Every one of them.

David Horsager: Yeah. Wow.

David Horsager: Well, let’s do you have any, by the way, sometimes we get to this in the in just our daily lives. People love to hear habits and you gave a few of those. But you have any like tips.

David Horsager: Just favorite productivity tips, even for how you you know we’ve got so many busy leaders listening today. Any tips that you as a routine or, you know, as a as a habit or ways you deal with things that help you stay effective and efficient, even in just the little tasks.

Dave Cornell: Yeah, and, and I’m a I’ve never been a great list person, but I’ve got a list right in front of me of the things that I want to accomplish this week and I know David that that’s something that you teach and something that I

Dave Cornell: That that you affirmed in what I was doing. And so for me it’s about what is it that I want to accomplish this week. And how am I going to go about getting that done. I think that is

Dave Cornell: Truly a simple one that that many, many people talk about, but not many people really fulfill that live that out.

David Horsager: DMA is different jacking actions we wrote about them in both the first two books, but

David Horsager: Every day. Now, you know, and leads it but the team comes around for a five minute meeting stand up meetings and everybody just gives one DMA for the day.

David Horsager: And then the next day they have to report on it. Just what top thing. What’s the most important thing of their five, three or four, three to five. What’s, what’s the most important thing

David Horsager: Interesting. What happens when that just gets in front of you have it written down, and that kind of thing, simple idea, but certainly an important one.

David Horsager: Yeah, well, there’s a whole lot more. We could cover and cultivate courage and a whole lot more. We could cover with your work.

David Horsager: Maybe before I get to the lightning round any other highlights, you know, for you in work life business like this courage work.

David Horsager: I’m thinking of that principle, you came up with. It’s really fun for us to see for the the pharmaceutical we were working with. But what what are some little highlight takeaways. When you’ve seen people be TRANSFORMING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GETTING IT

Dave Cornell: Wow, that’s, that’s a great question and I, for me, it’s when I get an email from somebody, or maybe even a letter.

Dave Cornell: From somebody and and they tell me that they have begun to step out and courage and and i mean i had a lady share with me.

Dave Cornell: This is, this is a year after she had heard me speak and she went back was challenged, but by what I had to share with her and she didn’t do anything about it. She just

Dave Cornell: Dwell the in that fear for a year of calling out somebody was a nonprofit calling out the, the head of her board who had been harassing sexually harassing one of her employees and it took her a year to do something about it. But she did and it, it changed her life and

Dave Cornell: So others.

Dave Cornell: It and others. Exactly. And so I think for me, just hearing those stories of of people who have made a change, who have had the courage. This gentleman that we’re coaching right now that I’m coaching right now from the the

Dave Cornell: The university that that we’ve talked about just the change that he is making. And again, that’s what drives and motivates me so I just, I love when I see people

Dave Cornell: Beginning to see differently. You know, it comes back to the frame. They’ve seen one way and now they’ve started to see another way

David Horsager: I love it, you know, psychology, thoughts, lead to desires with

David Horsager: The actions. What I see leads to what I think about and desire which leads now act and it’s the same with the frame and the same with courage, so

David Horsager: A clear, simple three step process for courage, a simple, clear frame but you got to do it. And like we say around here. You got to do the work.

David Horsager: So let’s jump to a lightning round here. What’s your right now. You gave a bunch of your favorite authors, so we’ll just jumped in. What’s a favorite resource or book right now, specifically

Dave Cornell: You know, I just finished up reading Bob gough’s dream big book and and i love how he writes, he’s got so many stories.

Dave Cornell: But particularly as I think about this online course, I’m in the process of developing. It was so good for me so challenging for me and helped me to be in the process of dreaming bigger than what I normally might have done in that book was critical in helping me through this process.

David Horsager: You know something really fun about that we read, we read a book in the evening with our kids getting older, all the time, but we read love does by

David Horsager: God, and boy, that was fun and some out loud laughter but also inspiring go take a chance, go do it. You know,

David Horsager: Yes, but I’ll tell you a really fun podcast listening to it yesterday because of the four authors you named you can put two of them together and just this last podcast by Bob goth. He has Mark Patterson on

Dave Cornell: That yeah

David Horsager: Big thinkers together in one podcast.

David Horsager: They are a lot of fun and a lot of inspiration.

Dave Cornell: So I’ll have to find that one.

David Horsager: Very cool. It’s on his dream big podcast but

David Horsager: He has mark on and marks going to be on our show here before long. So what any favorite quote

Dave Cornell: Wow, you know, I’m going to share what this. This is one of my quotes and it’s one that that I tried to step into every day fear calls us to be spectators courage calls us to get in the game.

Dave Cornell: And I and and that’s a quote that came out of a particular story that I share when I speak of me being

Dave Cornell: Put into a high school basketball game in a situation that I didn’t think that I was ready for and fear. Fear keeps us in the stands.

Dave Cornell: Courage gets us in the game gets us active gets us doing things that we don’t think when we could ever accomplish and

Dave Cornell: Here’s one of the key things to in this David is that when we are courageous, it not only makes a difference in our lives, but in the lives of the people around us.

Dave Cornell: And so we have to recognize that when we’re courageous when we’re fearful. We’re selfish when we’re courageous.

Dave Cornell: We are we are spreading who we are and the gifts that we’ve been given. And so for me, that’s one of my favorite quotes and I don’t know if it’s fair to use one of my own. But that’s one that’s

Dave Cornell: really impactful for me.

David Horsager: I love it. We know your humility already so I’m glad you use your own because I really appreciate that.

David Horsager: Well, it has been a great conversation. What’s, what’s one thing in your life. One thing you have left to do you really want to do that by the way I think of courage with you. I remember when you told me years ago. I don’t know if I’ll live past 50

Dave Cornell: Right, yeah.

David Horsager: Yeah, because you know family basically no one had and look at

David Horsager: You now a couple decades almost

Dave Cornell: Closing in on that. Yeah, then

David Horsager: But I mean, think about what do you have left to do you, what’s your bucket list item here that you’re thinking, boy, I sure hope to this is something I’d like to see happen.

Dave Cornell: Well, for me, it’s this online course, and I’ve got a deadline of March 1 and, you know, sharing it with you and and your listeners. Now it becomes even more. I’m more accountable to it now and. But just knowing that the impact

Dave Cornell: That that this can have on people if they knowing the impact of learning to be courageous in my own life.

Dave Cornell: And and how other people can do that as well and the impact that that spreads its kind of kind of the, the pebble in the pond theory, you know,

Dave Cornell: Hopefully I can impact a few people who then can impact more and more and more just like you do in your trust work, David. And so

Dave Cornell: I’m going to say, even though I’ve got a you know a shortened deadline on it that for me, I think, is the is the next big step and then some longer term goals are. I’d love to do courage workshops

Dave Cornell: Where we bring people together and they share dreams that they might never think that they could do but with the help and support of other people. They can be encouraged to be more than they ever thought they could be and they can get out of the stands and get into the game.

David Horsager: Love it. I love it. There’s a second book there.

David Horsager: So where can people find out about more, I got one last question for you. But before that, where can we find out more. Everybody can come to trust edge to find you. But where do we find out about courage.

Dave Cornell: And I’ve got my own website cultivate courage calm and you can go there and find out the work that I do there.

Dave Cornell: The training that I do the speaking that I do. I’ve got a blog that I haven’t done much with the last couple of months, but was pretty consistent with. And I’ll start back up here in a couple weeks on that.

Dave Cornell: So cultivate courage calm, you can find my book on Amazon, just to type in the title cultivate courage and so those are the really the two places that I

Dave Cornell: Would love to connect with people on my website. I’ve got a Facebook page as well. Cultivate courage. So I’d love to connect with people there to

David Horsager: Cultivate courage and all these sites and links will be in the show notes trusted leader show.com and we’ll make sure they’re in there. So, final question.

David Horsager: The show is the trusted leader show who is a trusted leader that you trust and why

Dave Cornell: Well, David. I’m, I’m gonna go with you and

Dave Cornell: You just have had such an impact in my life and I see you live out those eight pillars and I know that you say that you’re not perfect at them and and but

Dave Cornell: You have been a mentor to me you have helped me in in more ways than you can even imagine. And I think just

Dave Cornell: Being able to apply again we go back to the pebble in the pond. I’m one of those outer rings of the pebble we you know when you jumped into the pond with your trust work that’s had an impact on me and I’m just very, very grateful for that. So,

Dave Cornell: I hope that that’s okay to use you as my as my trusted leader in that

David Horsager: Very kind. I didn’t set that up at all, but

Dave Cornell: He didn’t. He didn’t

David Horsager: Thank you. Thank you, Dave. And it’s been a delightful friendship and

Dave Cornell: Spent so far, see all

David Horsager: You’ve done so well that is our conversation for today. Thanks for joining us on the trusted leader SHOW. Dave Cornell. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you for your work. Thank you for being our friend, and thanks for the, the, the, the framework.

David Horsager: Around courage today and we just are grateful to know you and partner alongside with you. So, we will see you all next time on the trusted leader show and until then stay trusted.

Ep. 28: Ron Karr on Why You Should NEVER Script Your Sales Calls

In this episode, David sits down with Ron Karr, Keynote Speaker/CEO, Best Selling Author, and Creator of the Velocity
Mindset®, to discuss why you should NEVER script your sales calls.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Ron’s Bio:
Ron Karr has worked with leaders on six continents to eliminate risk, gain buy-in and achieve better results faster with the Velocity Mindset®. His presentations and advisory services have generated over a billion dollars in incremental revenues for his clients. Ron is the author of five books including his latest, Velocity Mindset® and the bestselling Lead, Sell or Get Out of the Way. Ron facilitates the Chief Revenue Officer Mastermind Group (CRO) made up of CEO’s and VP’s of high growth companies looking to build high performance sales cultures. He also served as the 2013-2014 President of the National Speakers Association.

Ron’s Links:
Buy Ron’s NEW book “The Velocity Mindset”: https://amzn.to/3gUsFFT
Website: http://ronkarr.com
Blog: http://ronkarr.com/blog
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ronkarr
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ronkarr
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ronkarr1
YouTube: http://youtube.com/ronkarr1
“Lead Sell or Get Out of the Way” by Ron Karr: https://amzn.to/3aWALdc

Key Quotes:
1. “Vulnerability sells.”
2. “When you’re vulnerable, that’s what makes the emotional connection with others.”
3. “We put self-imposed limitations on ourselves which in effect stop us from going after what we want.”
4. “If you don’t have empathy, you can’t be there for somebody.”
5. “We’re too hard on ourselves.”
6. “The best that I can do when I’m up on stage is just tell my story.”
7. “It’s actually very powerful to admit mistakes.”
8. “There is no such thing as perfectionism.”
9. “What would the world look like if everybody acted like a leader?”
10. “People buy outcomes.”
11. “The true definition of velocity is speed with direction.”
12. “If you’re scripting, you’re not listening.”
13. “Don’t make a sales call, make a help call.”
14. “Its not about me, its always about them.”
15. “Live today like its your last day.”
16. “A leader makes the unpopular decisions, even if it can cost you something.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Buy Ron’s NEW book “The Velocity Mindset”: https://amzn.to/3gUsFFT
“Healing Back Pain” by John E. Sarno MD: https://amzn.to/3vyidI0
“Staring At The Sun” by Irvin D. Yalom: https://amzn.to/3vzHyS7
Evernote: https://evernote.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse soccer I have a special guest today his name is RON car he has maybe you’ve seen him on the BBC or the morning show CBS ABC.

David Horsager: He is author of four books he’s spoken on six continents we’re going to talk a little bit about his newest book today the velocity mindset, but he’s also a friend so RON thanks for being on the show.

Ron Karr: Oh, my pleasure pleasure to be here to support you and your audience and.

David Horsager: that’s right and you’re going to give some some greatness to our audience, I know that you’re in New York today.

Ron Karr: i’m in New Jersey, which you just hear the side of the River the.

David Horsager: Oh big pot of start.

David Horsager: let’s get into it, you know RON tell us if you think for anybody that doesn’t know you a couple little known facts about RON car.

Ron Karr: Well, known as a sales expert, because I was in sales and sales management and I always came to the companies, right after their heyday so I had to find innovative ways to succeed.

Ron Karr: And I launched my sales training business in 1988 after family tragedy, and then it morphed into speaking and consulting and advisory board of directors.

Ron Karr: And then I became President, the national speakers association, when I was done, I started asking myself, you know what’s my value that we all do, in life.

Ron Karr: Because while I was doing sales and very successful, it was missing just a little bit for me and at that time I had nine surgeries what after my presidency mostly my back.

Ron Karr: And what I realized is that my business more often to leadership, because I was coaching a lot of CEOs and how to build high performing sales cultures.

Ron Karr: And one of the things that I teach sales people and CEOs is that vulnerability cells.

Ron Karr: When you’re vulnerable that’s what makes the emotional connection with others, and then they tend to want to hear your story.

Ron Karr: And so I realized, you know that one of the things I couldn’t I couldn’t penetrate you know because they had a titan principle I have lead seller get out of the way as my previous books.

Ron Karr: I just couldn’t really give a grass to what I was really about in these days when I was looking for more significance, if you will, and.

Ron Karr: The individual that was working on my new video tape called me up and it says, I got it I got what he goes velocity mindset.

Ron Karr: And it hit me and I said well how’d you come up with that he goes I didn’t you did that’s all you talk about in the morn.

Ron Karr: You don’t even recognize it and the materials talk about it and they mentioned it, for the last 10 years, so I thought about it and I realized, you know I.

Ron Karr: I can’t find abused childhood, you know it wasn’t because my father didn’t love me he was a Holocaust survivor and it’s well documented that.

Ron Karr: kids of Holocaust survivors tend to be abused, because there’s so damaged, you know they just really don’t know how to handle life situations, if you will.

Ron Karr: And coming from that add a lot of I hadn’t didn’t have a lot of I had no confidence, and you know I go to college and then I start working.

Ron Karr: And it took me a while you know, to get out from underneath that and then finally realized my strength and and and what I can give to the world, but what I realized was how much time I lost.

Ron Karr: How much time I lost because of that lack of confidence that didn’t, allow me to go after the things that I wanted.

Ron Karr: And so now you fast forward about 4550 years you know, in a map those surgeries and.

Ron Karr: You know i’m 64 now so i’m going, you know, for what I call is my last four and when you say the back nine but around it back for say.

Ron Karr: You know I realized times that you know not plentiful, if you will, but there’s still a lot of time to make great contributions, and so the first thing that comes to you say oh man I wish I didn’t waste all that time.

Ron Karr: And so what I realized was put into this earth, was to teach people how we put self imposed limitations in ourselves, which, in effect, stop us from going after what we want and that’s just a big crying shame.

David Horsager: What would that be what’s what’s a limitation we’re putting on ourselves.

Ron Karr: Our stories hmm so we all have stories as to certain things happen to us when we’re young.

Ron Karr: And then we create a story as to what we think it is so when I was getting out from under forward, I went through with my dad I remember speaking to a mentor and she said to me look.

Ron Karr: What your father did to you, he did, for his own reasons, but once it happens, you created a story as to what you think it meant.

Ron Karr: How do you change the story Well, first of all, you got to recognize the story actually you got to recognize that everything we think it’s a story it’s our perception of what’s happening.

Ron Karr: So we can acknowledge a story, then you can easily stain change stories, but if you think it’s reality it’s hard to change reality.

Ron Karr: So the first thing is to acknowledge that it’s a story, and the second thing that is ask yourself what led to that story, and then, how is that story impacting you and if it’s not impacting you positively, what can you do to go about and change it.

David Horsager: And what how did you change your story, I mean that’s still seeing.

David Horsager: Anything after something challenging like that it’s like.

David Horsager: You know I thought we might talk about sales, but this is life, I mean let’s talk about this, what how do I change everybody I sit next to be I was just talking half an hour ago, I sit next to CEOs and leaders and.

David Horsager: Sometimes presidents of countries or companies, and there are many have imposter syndrome they’re scared to death they’re going to be filled found out there shameful and just like you actually are data lashes i’m jumping around here but.

David Horsager: found 92% of people would trust their senior leaders more if there are more vulnerable about their mistakes about the mismatches vulnerable, but about their mistakes people don’t relate on i’m the champion of this and the President of that they relate on this.

David Horsager: No yeah I failed so, but so one I see the realization there and how that makes us authentic we all everybody else knew, you were imperfect so let’s you know let’s acknowledge it right.

David Horsager: But how do I, I still think I think this is challenging for people they might even recognize it but not know what to do to retell or change the story.

Ron Karr: Well, the first couple of things, one of the things that I realized in my sales career and coaching CEOs and actually when companies come to us looking for a new executive or or sales executive and we use our assessments, the one thing we look for high rating on is empathy.

Ron Karr: All right, if you don’t have empathy you can be there for somebody but it starts with personal empathy.

Ron Karr: It starts with empathy for yourself it starts by giving yourself a break we’re too hot and ourselves number one.

Ron Karr: I remember when I became a speaker, you know we both belong to NSA I realized about eight years later, after I became a speaker I became a speaker for the wrong reason.

Ron Karr: As I thought, if I could stand up on stage and quote unquote be naked in front of an audience and get comfortable with that, then I slayed my father’s dragons.

Ron Karr: That was wrong listen to be up on that stage, you know, I was doing for myself, not for the audience.

Ron Karr: And when I started to realize that and I started, say, and when I also started realize know the one thing I wanted to do when I went on stage was it had to be the best speaker they ever heard.

Ron Karr: Why because of makeup for all the things my father told me when I was young kid your fraud wait until they find that out, and you know that’s what I had to overcome well, the reality is i’m setting myself up for failure.

Ron Karr: Because to sit there and say you that’d be the best speakers someone’s ever heard that’s impossible.

Ron Karr: When people ask you who’s your best speak I said, well, it depends I got several then for different reasons, all right, but if I want to be the best be anybody at i’m setting myself up for failure.

Ron Karr: And when I realized that the best thing that can do when i’m on stage is just tell my story they’re there to hear something from me.

Ron Karr: And all I need to do is share my story as to what why they hired me they may be platter.

Ron Karr: And when I do that number one i’m not trying to ask, I might try to be something that i’m not and that’s when the vulnerability comes.

Ron Karr: And when you also understand that it’s okay to admit mistakes and, as you said, David a second ago it’s actually late powerful to admit mistakes.

Ron Karr: Actually, for your business and what you do to trust it adds it it automatically starts developing trust, because when people can admit when they made mistakes you start trusting them more than when people sugarcoat things or glance over.

Ron Karr: Okay.

Ron Karr: So trust, as you well know, it’s a very big thing in any kind of relationship or any kind of influence so going back to your question about how do we change our stories.

Ron Karr: there’s a book that I read, because when I had all those back surgeries and half my back history is someone told me to read this book called healing back pain by Dr john sauna.

Ron Karr: i’ve recommended that book to 200 people it’s a game changer sauna was a pain MED docket nyu in the 1980s and he couldn’t understand that he goes, how can a dead nerve create pain and somebody.

Ron Karr: And yet he’s giving all these opiates but they’re not getting any better.

Ron Karr: So I started analyzing the brain and he realized that, in the 1980s, the malady was also and also they disappeared, because of medicine what to global was back pain and what he stumbled upon was.

Ron Karr: In the subconscious the things we don’t want to get in here, and when we start getting in those things often our mind will create a diversion paint that takes us away from that.

Ron Karr: And he was able to identify several reasons of why that may happen and one was a common characteristic called in perfectionism and the other one was good ISM.

Ron Karr: A lot of people want to be perfectionist and they want to be good to everybody, they doing, to the detriment of themselves.

Ron Karr: And because they’re trying to avoid seeing themselves what they really are and therefore the brain takes over and they created the version or pain i’m simplifying it.

Ron Karr: But it’s an amazing book if people want it will.

David Horsager: will put that in the show notes trusted leader.

David Horsager: trusted leader show.com and we’ll put all the show notes right there so that’s that’s a great recommendation wow.

David Horsager: So that helped you change.

Ron Karr: yeah So when I read that book, I went back to every phase in my life when I was a young kid to now when I had significant pain episodes and I realized, it was a situation where I was under a story that doesn’t serve me well.

Ron Karr: It was a lack of confidence who’s going to go out with me who’s going to do this or who’s going to buy this and I can just trace every pain episode to that.

Ron Karr: And so what I hadn’t realized is that perfectionism you know, and we all hear this phrase that i’ve used my clients failure is not an option.

Ron Karr: it’s a great face, because it shows you dedication, but if it’s overused that’s when you go for perfectionism you really hurting yourself.

Ron Karr: There is no such thing as perfectionism.

Ron Karr: it’s, how do you move the needle forward.

Ron Karr: How do you go from point A to B, how do you help others move forward, how do you help yourselves move forward so at the end of the day, you’re seeing progress and you feeling good about yourself.

David Horsager: No, not now.

David Horsager: Progress, how are you personally progressing we’ll get to the book in a in a bit, but how do you how do you moving forward these days 64 lot of brilliant a lot of success in certain ways, but what about now.

Ron Karr: Well, you know I had, as you know, an emergency open heart surgery to replace in a lot about and it went well and and obviously we know we’re here so i’m thankful for that.

Ron Karr: But when you go through that game changing surgery, and you come close close to you when you start thinking about the essence of life.

Ron Karr: And, and the fear of death, that you may have so there was another book that I read it was also a game changer called staring at the sun by irv yellow.

Ron Karr: And he is a specialist that that specializes in the fear of death and one of the things that he’s he talks about in that book.

Ron Karr: Is that we’re all going after the wrong thing and that’s why, when it comes to the end about days, sometimes it’s hard for some people to move on.

Ron Karr: Because we’re all going for legacy, while going for people to remember us 515 years and it goes to reality is no one’s going to remember you and 50 years.

Ron Karr: No one’s ever going to remember you know years of grandchildren, you know won’t be here and so forth, so why are you going for that.

Ron Karr: He goes what you really should go for his when he called rippling R I P P Li n g.

Ron Karr: When you think about it, if I do something and I share something with you, David and you and acted in your life right there was a positive thing that I contributed to the world through you.

Ron Karr: You in turn now open i’m turn that into a rippling effect because you’re going to share with other people like you do with your show.

Ron Karr: And then it’s going to be shared and Shannon the end of the day, most people won’t even know where it came from, but no one cans.

Ron Karr: Only thing we do care is that we did what we were supposed to do on this earth and we moved the ball forward so now, instead of whining about my legacy.

Ron Karr: and his worry about rippling, how can I create all these ripples throughout society that I know of, but I make a and improvement, so you know, at the end of a certain period I look back, I won’t feel like value fell short.

David Horsager: what’s it what’s a way that you’re making a ripple now I mean I feel like i’ve i’ve been crippled by you.

David Horsager: make it better because of knowing you but tell me something you’re like intentionally Is there something you’re thinking, this is one of the ways with my family with my.

David Horsager: kids I know your daughter loves you so much, we got you got a lot of good stuff how about how are you making a ripple or how you trying to.

Ron Karr: It actually was by.

Ron Karr: Taking my consulting to a higher level with the CEOs and being bold enough to get into their issues, not just the business because you know you can solve oh so Okay, why is it with the same people in we talk about the same thing three years later.

Ron Karr: Right it’s because they haven’t dealt with the story that’s been holding them back so I decided to be more vulnerable.

Ron Karr: With my people I coach and amazing, as is because then they tend to open up they trust you more, and when I can see real change in them.

Ron Karr: Like one guy had his business in the abyss he made some mistakes we told them not to make it and only one bank weapon now he’s out of it.

Ron Karr: And he nearly lost his marriage, but you know a lot of consulting got into the relationship and now he’s flourishing that you know you made a rippling effect right.

Ron Karr: And you know, then he passed it on to his wife.

Ron Karr: Because they were having a relationship that would hit the snags if you will hit a roadblock and now it’s better so she got rippling effect.

Ron Karr: it’s about making it better for everybody, you know if you want to look at what rippling is, and I just keeps being passed on, you know it’s like when you throw a pebble into a.

Ron Karr: lake you know and it keeps bouncing that’s what you want to do create all the little wave stirring around and reply, and it goes longer and longer and further and further.

David Horsager: I love it let’s jump in I love how personable you are, you have been with my team and friends and loved as as President of NSA and and all that you’ve done to just ripple before you were so focused on rippling maybe but let’s let’s talk a little bit about the velocity mindset.

Ron Karr: For.

David Horsager: Your new book coming out right now first weekend in May at first weekend may tell us about the first of all, the genesis for this a little bit more and.

David Horsager: What it’s all about who it’s for.

Ron Karr: Right well so it’s a leadership book but it’s really for everyone, because the premise of the book is what would the world look like if everybody after like a leader.

Ron Karr: And what I mean by that is taking responsibility.

Ron Karr: You know so, for example, when I when I when I teach sales executives and when I teach so CEOs or leaders anybody.

Ron Karr: One thing we talked about is, if you act like a leader and you want to influence somebody, then the first thing you have to realize your first job is to create a safe environment for them to want to have a conversation with you.

Ron Karr: that’s your responsibility, not beds.

Ron Karr: So for sales people the number one thing that they have to recognize is that when they call somebody up to an interruption.

Ron Karr: And then the book will get into the neuroscience because I I stumbled a pilot and 2000 working with a major financial services company throughout the entire United States.

Ron Karr: And they wanted to reduce their sales cycle for five calls, we got it down to three calls, but what I realized was that, when they would go knocking on.

Ron Karr: potential investors doors like retirees they spent 12 minutes talking about the pictures of the football team that they both supported the kids the grandkids and I can tell, in their eyes when I accompany them.

Ron Karr: That they’re going, what are you doing here.

Ron Karr: So cortisol which is this the fight or flight, you know flight hormone we all have it can’t get rid of it, but if you act like a leader your job is to get the quarter so on a manageable level, so they get engaged.

Ron Karr: So if you understand that the first thing you’re likely to do is interrupt them in the day, you have to understand your spiking the cortisol.

Ron Karr: So then, how you bring it down well you don’t bring it down by talking about you and your products and services because there’s no connection.

Ron Karr: You need to ask them where they’re trying to go and what the biggest challenges are.

Ron Karr: And then they’ll start divulging information because it’s about them and that about you, and then they start trusting you, you know, an influence is two parts to the body that really important the heart and the mind.

Ron Karr: The mind is data, the heart is emotional connection, unfortunately, most people make them worse mistake when they try to influence others they go straight to the mind and start shooting all the data all the reasons why they should accept your premise, but there was no emotional connection.

Ron Karr: So it’s not landing with impact if you understand as a leader at your first job is to create emotional impact and to create a safe environment for them to want to talk you got to do different things on that in that interaction.

David Horsager: But just give us a good good give us one or two insights on coaching because this is hard for everybody they’re trying to break in there, trying to connect.

David Horsager: And they’re like because I think if you if you get on a call it’s a cold call let’s just say it’s like nothing will connect he can’t say how was your family it’s in authentic you can’t say how you doing that’s in authentic.

Ron Karr: Right So the first thing you need to do is you’re going to base it on an outcome yeah people by outcomes, as the emotional connection.

Ron Karr: it’s not the features of what you offer number one again fast got is too soon alright so it’s if it’s a cold call or an email it’s a if you want to challenge and maybe a little bit like the Greg book The challenger sale, but it’s about an outcome how.

David Horsager: About there, though let’s say yeah How would you get there in the first column we’re not going to go through your whole.

David Horsager: Price we can’t, but I just think this is an issue for people this first part to even let them listen like even get anywhere.

Ron Karr: So Dave, thank you for taking my call and, by the way, that I interrupt you, and anything right now that you’re with them.

David Horsager: yeah i’m busy.

Ron Karr: I understand that I really don’t want to take a lot of time, so if you just give me a couple of minutes I guarantee this to be worth your while and you’ll be on your way.

Ron Karr: I mean i’m calling you Dave.

Ron Karr: Okay we’ve worked with several Homeowners in your neighborhood like yours with houses that are about 20 years of age.

Ron Karr: And one of the things we’re realizing that the Homeowners are looking for it’s time for new gutter now I don’t know that’s you now attend and a year now.

Ron Karr: But what i’d like us to share with you so you’re ready when the time comes, I want to share the three biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to changing gutters would this be the time to do this, or would you rather schedule another time.

David Horsager: love it there’s a massive difference there everybody heard it everybody got it yeah so I might say yes it’s a good time.

Ron Karr: Okay, and then I don’t talk.

Ron Karr: Remember it’s about them, remember, I got the quarter so low I gotta keep it low.

Ron Karr: engage not too low.

Ron Karr: right then i’ll say, well, when you put gutters on what are the three things that are important to you in that process.

David Horsager: I want them to be quality, one of the last I you know what i’m i’m frustrated about with a lot of people i’ve had out here is they don’t clean up afterwards that frustrates me, you know I wanted to last, and I wanted to be done quickly, I had a project and it would took all summer.

Ron Karr: Okay now i’m looking at you, and you, your eyelids didn’t go up with your eyeballs.

David Horsager: yeah.

David Horsager: Most people are listening to the podcast but we’re.

David Horsager: Looking at each other zoom.

Ron Karr: And so the point that i’m saying about this is something happened in your brain when I asked you what are three things most important to what happened at that moment, because he thought is still.

Ron Karr: Protecting yourself he knew I was going to sell you something right.

Ron Karr: Right something changed that that moment what was it.

David Horsager: I started thinking about what I wanted.

David Horsager: Right and kind of might need.

Ron Karr: OK, and then you shared some of that with me right.

Ron Karr: Right you wouldn’t share that with me if you didn’t start trusting me.


Ron Karr: Why is trusting me.

David Horsager: Because you seemingly had an interest in me.

Ron Karr: yeah and I asked you what were the three things you wanted right yeah and he started trusting me and did you feel better about this call think you might have expected.

Ron Karr: Absolutely so what’s happening is this tool more hormones come into play oxytocin, which is the feel good, which is the.

Ron Karr: The trust connector hormone, and then you have dopamine, which is the feel good hormone but domain only rights of oxytocin.

Ron Karr: And that’s where you got to get people you gotta get the quarter so and and do a manageable level sooner, you want to be engaged.

Ron Karr: And then you start building that trust not talking about yourself not talking about what you want them to buy but getting an emotional connection about what’s important to them.

Ron Karr: mm hmm and then, when they see that there’s a possibility for hope that you can improve their lives to come back to rip well.

Ron Karr: Okay, then they start feeling good.

Ron Karr: Right that’s when they’re in a position now to hear your solution if you give your solution before then it’s landing on deaf ears.

David Horsager: Well, the reason i’m passionate about this is most of the people listening, they have something that it really is the solution and many born buying.

David Horsager: Because we’re shutting them off before it’s even possible So if you know don’t use the sales technique, if you have a bunch of junk, but if you have something valuable that can help people then let’s try to help people with it.

David Horsager: And that starts with an emotional.

Ron Karr: connection, but even that but, even on junk has to have a value, I mean how many times have you moved, I mean i’m going to move to Florida, and I call some people fundamentally 123 you.

David Horsager: Know yeah right you still have to position it right right.

Ron Karr: it’s on the position.


David Horsager: So let’s let’s go a little deeper on on velocity mindset, the overall framework.

Ron Karr: Well, again so that’s pose that the premise of the book is that.

Ron Karr: it’s for anybody who is a leader right, you have to act like a leader, if you want to gain influence and, if you want to get velocity moving because.

Ron Karr: How much sooner, can I get someone on my side another premise of the book as you can’t gain velocity or be successful justin the efforts of yourself.

Ron Karr: You can go further and faster through the efforts of others, another thing that we talked about which is really the definition of velocity if I asked you David what what’s the first word that comes to mind when you hear the word velocity, the answer is.

Ron Karr: Speed speed.

Ron Karr: that’s all you think about you are going out.

Ron Karr: Because how many times do we have our to do list i’m going going going going with getting it done also at the end of the day we go what I accomplish.

Ron Karr: I just sent myself back because it wasn’t anything geared towards what I was trying to do so, the two definition of velocity is speed with direction now it’s that direction when most people screw up on.

Ron Karr: Look at their action, like a goal, or the outcome, so if I asked you what is your goal for this prospecting call you might be making.

Ron Karr: The biggest mistake most salespeople make Oh, I want to sell the client on my services.

Ron Karr: that’s not a goal, especially if it takes five calls to sell your products it be looking to sell it on the first call.

Ron Karr: you’re setting yourself a failure, because it means all you gotta do is try every closing book and that trick in the book you’re going to talk too much and and the other day they’re going to hang up on you.

Ron Karr: And you’re not going to get to the second call and effective goal for that situation is to qualify this prospect to see a day ideal for you and for them.

Ron Karr: And then, if so, identify what the next path forward is because then you’re now going to do the right actions.

Ron Karr: to qualify you’re going to ask them what they’re looking for you can ask them what they’re trying to do, are you going to see what something for you right.

Ron Karr: And then, and then, if you agree to it, then the next thing is going to be asking is what’s the path forward what’s your buying process who’s involved or Do I need to talk to.

Ron Karr: But you would never get to those questions and that wasn’t visualized in your mind is the outcome is what you wanted to achieve.

Ron Karr: So you really have to have direction and you really need to pay attention before you do anything as to what the true goal or destination is that you’re trying to achieve.

David Horsager: I love it so velocity mindset speed plus direction.

David Horsager: Right velocity.

David Horsager: know the outcome of each step of the process, how many steps are in the process, you can have a framework.

Ron Karr: That you go I just a.

Ron Karr: So the first thing is, is that I would do it what’s called a grounding.

Ron Karr: Now myself into the probing goal.

Ron Karr: And to get myself into the right mindset of what i’m going to do and I don’t believe in scripts David a lot of people use scripts if your scripting you’re not listening.

Ron Karr: Listening is a big part of velocity Okay, I have an agenda and the agenda is a different piece, I need so one ground myself in the velocity mindset what the goal is.

Ron Karr: Then, to what do I need to find out those become my questions way trying to go now the reason we use the number 3am I asked you for one thing you want to can’t think of anything.

Ron Karr: Then we’re in trouble.

Ron Karr: But i’ve asked you for three you’re going to come up at least one or two.

Ron Karr: And, and I can’t do the first one, at least I can have the second one to hang my hat on and also three is a very powerful number of the English language.

Ron Karr: So he asked for three and then they tell you, and then you want to ask more questions you want to get the perception.

Ron Karr: Because the biggest one of the biggest things that getting away, you know those those things that I said the takeaway or create dragon resistance own velocity is our assumptions.

Ron Karr: How many times we make assumptions in a day, only to realize that we’re wrong and I called up some of our colleagues one time did an unscientific survey and I said.

Ron Karr: You know, go back to all the assumptions that you made in the last year, you know, think about some of the biggest ones, you made.

Ron Karr: That didn’t prove to be real you got when your mind and they go yeah okay What was it Oh, you know this President said it, and I will close friends and I thought it was a dig and and I said how could it be so mean to me as a man, and so what you do.

Ron Karr: Well, I student it for a few days, I will not serve you and then what happened was every time he called me I wasn’t nice to me So what did that do for you.

Ron Karr: And I said whoa and then and then, when he said those things to do you know what he meant by that.

Ron Karr: And no well, maybe you should just go ask them well they asked them and realize oh my what they were intending had nowhere near.

Ron Karr: The impact of what they receive that as so assumptions, I said how many days a week, did you use that that you know cuz think about it when you’re bothered by something in that really productive.

Ron Karr: So basically they came up with all the key assumptions that they had the wrong they probably lost three weeks in a year.

Ron Karr: What could he do with those three weeks now that’s unscientific server here Okay, and I know you like data.

Ron Karr: We all can relate to the last assumption, we had.

Ron Karr: That bothered us, and then we realize it was wrong right so we’re going to clarify what people may I gotta clarify what the same we got to clarify what the intent is.

Ron Karr: You know, when we teach communications, nobody thinks that because I communicate with you, it was an effective communication and it’s not.

Ron Karr: When we have to recognize is is that when I say something to you you’re taking those words and you’re putting it through your filter of your biases and past experiences right and therefore you get a different perception as to what it meant.

Ron Karr: And there’s one more thing that we’re doing in communications often we trigger other people.

Ron Karr: If i’m saying something to you like, for example, I had a CEO will talking and you know he came out very difficult period, you know and nearly went on, and I always find that the bank working with him.

Ron Karr: And that was part of his get well scheme, you know he figured let me sell the building, you know get some money back from that and julie’s so he found someone who really liked him and it says, this is a great business you got all that good stuff.

Ron Karr: we’re going to do it, then it gets a call for the guy week later, and the guy says don’t laugh so now we’re getting shows really looking in it seems like your business is risky.

Ron Karr: And then my client, all of a sudden his energy just drag it goes up and he said to me the coaching call of here we go.

Ron Karr: I said whoa wait a minute he just triggered you yeah why because you’re heard that from banks and banks to give you a hard time right yeah.

Ron Karr: But you’re not having empathy for him, you letting a triggers get out of the way that’s not what he meant what he was saying to is now he’s looking at the due diligence is his right to make sure he’s making the right investment.

Ron Karr: And if you sounded anywhere near like what you to send it to me.

Ron Karr: Is a very losing interest he may have even done as a test to see how you responded.

Ron Karr: You should go back to him calling back up and say hey you know when you said, this could be a risky business, so you know, on the face of it, it could be and you’re right.

Ron Karr: And we weren’t in the dumps but we pulled it out, and you can see where we are right now, but you and I know one thing that when you invest in the business and in the building or whatever you’re not just investing in the business you’re investing in the people at the top.

Ron Karr: And i’m the person who bought this company back to where it is today, and i’m the person who making the investment.

Ron Karr: it’s a totally different way to address it, and he turns around.

Ron Karr: And this still into the final negotiations and he’s probably, then I get that investment yeah so we all get triggered you have to understand when you’re getting triggered.

Ron Karr: Understand it’s just a trigger and then ask yourself Is this really what the person matt and most of the time it’s not.

David Horsager: I love it let’s the book, the new book is velocity mindset, give us a what what What do we expect, we read velocity mindset in one sentence or two, what are we going to get.

Ron Karr: you’re going to learn how to eliminate missed in your life gain buying and achieve better results faster.

David Horsager: I like it direction plus speed don’t forget about direction as far as velocity is concerned, you go too fast, the wrong direction doesn’t do it right it doesn’t do any good probably worse right so.

Ron Karr: russ and you get a lot of aggravation you gotta do it all over.

David Horsager: Well, we did we talked about, as we come to our some of the closing work here, we talked about you know habits that leaders have trusted leaders tend to have habits what what what are you doing consistently these days to to be high, trust and healthy as a leader.

Ron Karr: So one thing that I learned from the local band, whose vast buzzer when I say, and he also wrote the foreword, as the President of high point.

Ron Karr: He told me one time that he sends out three cards to three different people each day.

Ron Karr: Stay connected with people so that’s what I do sometimes it’s called sometimes it’s phone call.

Ron Karr: I know, yesterday I called for sakes you didn’t we haven’t spoken you know before my surgery, I said, for how you doing is once they are you doing.

Ron Karr: It just shows that you’re there for them that always when you want something that will one i’m what i’m also doing in this the way I let all my sales calls, but now a covert it forced everybody to do it don’t make a sales call make a health call.

Ron Karr: it’s a different connotation is set you up for different set of actions.

Ron Karr: The next one you’re going to love.

Ron Karr: It comes on the boundaries keep your word.

Ron Karr: The moment you, you know I always say to audiences, you know you can take my money, hopefully, you won’t you can take my family hopefully you wanted to get take my house, hopefully, you won’t, but if you did, and I still have my word I could find someone to invest in me.

Ron Karr: To start over.

Ron Karr: But it’s when you break that word and you break that trust it’s hard to find people to back you again.

Ron Karr: So you know now, the reality is he can’t always keep your word yeah make that your process of what you strive for.

David Horsager: What do you learn in these days what’s your new what’s the new learnings of the last just very short time you’ve written the had written the book you’re you, you know we’re learning every day, what are you learning now.

Ron Karr: Basically staring at the sun, you know coming to grips you know with our mortality and.

Ron Karr: And how can I be a better person, for the time that I have on this earth to my daughter to friends like you to my audiences.

Ron Karr: and understand that it’s not about me it’s always about them, but we always getting away so i’m constantly looking at you know.

Ron Karr: What I can do differently to keep myself out of the picture and be there 100% present one of the things I still struggle with is being President conversations.

Ron Karr: As I add my mind’s going off from all different directions now that’s good for consultant, because I can see the problems pretty fast.

Ron Karr: But if you’re not really being present people can tell when you have that presence and then it affects concepts like trust and then believing in you and so forth, so i’m still working on how can I be better presence when i’m speaking to individuals family clients and so forth.

David Horsager: that’s challenging I was just talking about a podcast I was interviewed on right before this that you know as consultant we learn how to solve the problems we learn how to critique, we can see that that isn’t the best way to be at home.

David Horsager: And you know it’s like being present and bringing.

Ron Karr: This, what do you got to do.

David Horsager: Next.

Ron Karr: Do you want to be heard.

David Horsager: Oh boy well with that let’s jump to the lightning round, and here we go.

David Horsager: We got just a few questions answer and fast then you’ve answered some already but we’ll let you go with it what’s a favorite book or resource you’ve given some maybe you want to reiterate or have a new one favorite book or resource right now.

Ron Karr: Of y’all i’m staring at the sun, made a big impact on me.

David Horsager: love it what’s a what’s a.

David Horsager: tech or gadget or APP that you like, right now, or that you’re using.

David Horsager: or gadget anything that you you’re like.

Ron Karr: I use evernote.

Ron Karr: yep, and the reason I use evernote is because it’s The one thing that I can keep track of everything I say so, I always forget it, so what if it’s a coaching client and keeping track of the coaching sessions if it’s a.

Ron Karr: Project i’m keeping track of a project and it goes to all my devices so evernote still on that that makes you the most productive.

David Horsager: it’s a great one.

David Horsager: yeah great one best advice or a good piece of advice you’ve got so much, but a best piece of advice you’ve been given her quote you’ve you think about.

Ron Karr: live today like it’s your last day.

David Horsager: With today like your last day and that’s a perfect perfect segue to this question, which is one thing left for RON car to do one bucket list or one hope for the future.

Ron Karr: Improvement golf squad.

Ron Karr: It really is i’m divorced 10 years you know and i’ve been with the zoo my career and everything.

Ron Karr: And my ex wife and I are very good friends, but when we were married we didn’t appreciate each other, so what i’m yearning for is to have that one relationship on this earth, that I can be the best to that individual and vice versa, and this fulfillment.


David Horsager: Working can we find more about RON car we’re.

Ron Karr: Sure well the website is RON cards calm now you gotta be careful because people can spell quite differently.

Ron Karr: it’s K are so it’s RON card calm and we have our blogs, and we got videos and also, if you follow me on linkedin we’re posting two videos a week and we’re also on all the other social media like instagram and Facebook and so forth.

David Horsager: And we’ll put that on the show notes trusted leader show.com it’ll all be there as well as some of the top takeaways from this I love the idea get to know get get the day.

David Horsager: Mind set velocity velocity mindset and these ideas are on grounding and make it I love this make a help call not a sales call and staying connected with others and a whole lot of i’ve got a couple pages of notes here but speed and direction is what it’s all about I love that.

David Horsager: Thank you so much for being on the show today, thank you.

Ron Karr: My pleasure.

David Horsager: For being my friend, we have one final question for you it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.

Ron Karr: Well, I guess you know one LEADER I would say is George Bush Senior.

Ron Karr: And the reason is this um.

Ron Karr: He when he became President he was you know his President, the whole country, and he knew that sometimes he’s going to have to make a decision it’s not popular.

Ron Karr: And a leader makes the unpopular decisions, even if it could cost you something.

Ron Karr: And he ran on the premise, no new taxes read my lips, and unfortunately he got in there, he had a war and he had to raise taxes and he knew he had to do it for the good of the country and, of course, and re election to me that was leader.

Ron Karr: And that about taxes, I don’t like taxes don’t get me wrong, but he did what he felt he had to do for the betterment of the country.

David Horsager: We try to keep commitments we make them and try to keep them there are changes made, I mean, I think it was even Abraham Lincoln who said.

David Horsager: I hope i’m not the same tomorrow, as I am, today, I have to take in the new information, I have to adjust, I have to think about these kind of things and try to still run my decisions on same principles i’m principled running them caring about the country and whatnot so.

David Horsager: that’s a great one well.

Ron Karr: RON that’s The other thing I look for a new leader, are they doing it for those only doing it for themselves yeah and you can see to that very easily.

David Horsager: miles away undeniably.

David Horsager: RON, thank you for your authenticity and vulnerability thanks.

David Horsager: For being my friend thanks for sharing with our trusted leader audience and to all of you, thanks for joining us on the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 27: Mark Victor Hansen on Why Your Dreams Could Be One Question Away

In this episode, David sits down with Mark Victor Hansen, Speaker, Trainer, Author, Serial Entrepreneur, and Member Of Multiple Board Of Directors, to discuss why your dreams could be one question away.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Mark’s Bio:
Mark is widely known as an American inspirational and motivational speaker, trainer, author, serial entrepreneur, and member of multiple board of directors. He is best known as the founder and co-creator of the “Chicken Soup for the Soul” book series, with more than 500 million books sold.

In the area of human potential, no one is better known and more respected than Mark Victor Hansen. For more than 44 years, he has focused solely on helping people and organizations reshape their personal vision of what’s possible. His powerful messages of possibility, opportunity, and action have helped create startling and powerful change in thousands of organizations and millions of individuals worldwide.

You may know Mark as “that Chicken Soup for the Soul guy.” Mark and his business partner, Jack Canfield, created what TIME magazine called, “the publishing phenomenon of the decade.” With more than 500 million CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE SOUL books sold around the world, and over 100 licensed products in the marketplace, it is one of the most successful publishing franchises in the world today.

A passionate philanthropist and humanitarian, Mark teaches the principles of the four types of tithing: thinking, time, talent, and treasures. Favored charities are Horatio Alger Scholarships, Habitat for Humanity, American Red Cross, Operation Smile, OCEANA, the Wyland Foundation, March of Dimes, Covenant House and is currently Co-Chairman (with his beloved wife, Crystal) of Childhelp Global Fundraising Campaign.

In the year 2000, The Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans honored Mark with the prestigious Horatio Alger Award. Each year, this association honors American leaders who personify the virtues and principles inherent in the success stories written by nineteenth-century American author Horatio Alger, Jr.

As an award winner, Mark Victor Hansen’s extraordinary life achievements stand as a powerful example that the free enterprise system still offers an opportunity to all.

Mark’s Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkVictorHansenFanPage
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markvictorhansen/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkVHansen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markvhansen/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1WRGxfPQ5JMQL-NDa_jO8Q
“ASK! The Bridge from Your Dreams to Your Destiny” by Mark Victor Hansen and Crystal Dwyer Hansen: https://amzn.to/3nmKej3

Key Quotes:
1. “I think everyone should take calculated risks.”
2. “Failure isn’t final. Failure’s just a learning experience.”
3. “If you don’t have dreams, you’re not alive.”
4. “We believe everybody was coded at birth with a destiny.”
5. “We get rid of our baggage by asking questions.”
6. “You’ve got to be a visionary leader who leads.”
7. “Lead yourself and then lead others.”
8. “Be an influencer of influencers.”
9. “The more you’re thankful, the more you get.”
10. “Every problem has a solution.”
11. “With vision we flourish.”
12. “Feedback is the breakfast of champions.”
13. “You got to know where you are.”
14. “Where do you want to go?”
15. “If you ask the right question, you can get anywhere in the world.”
16. “You should never retire.”
17. “What channel are you turned to?”
18. “Everybody needs to study the visionaries and become a visionary.”
19. “Everyone’s here to be a history maker, a record breaker.”
20. “You age at the level that you don’t take care of your body.”
21. “We can’t keep polluting the earth.”
22. “We need leaders that lead.”
23. “Everybody is an expert at something.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“ASK! The Bridge from Your Dreams to Your Destiny” by Mark Victor Hansen and Crystal Dwyer Hansen: https://amzn.to/3nmKej3
“The Miracle of Tithing” by Mark Victor Hansen: https://amzn.to/3tWTJI9
Freeport-McMorRan: https://www.fcx.com/
“The One Minute Millionaire” by Mark Victor Hansen and Robert G. Allen: https://amzn.to/3vk5JUr
QCI: https://qci.com/ “You Have A Book In You” by Mark Victor Hansen: https://amzn.to/3eBCdTg
Joe Soto: https://www.joesoto.net/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horror soccer and I have an immensely special treat today, he is trusted by over a half billion people for sure, because you’ve sold that many books and I there’s a whole lot more we’re going to say but welcome to the show mark Victor Hansen.

markvictorhansen: My great pleasure and honor, thank you for having me.

David Horsager: Well, I want to start out so many people know you know your work around the world philanthropist and author and leader to many, many, many.

David Horsager: But it is interesting to go back to some of that maybe not the very beginning, but you know 500 million copies of chicken soup for the soul, you are the Co creator and that and founder.

David Horsager: we’re going to talk about your new book yeah there it is we can all see it those that are watching my video I just for For those of you don’t know.

David Horsager: You know, dozens of books and he and his wife wrote the new one we’re going to talk about after bit there it is ask, and it is asked bridge from your desk dreams to your destiny that’s going to be a.

David Horsager: wonderful conversation and and a large part of this, but.

David Horsager: You might remember a few of these the one minute millionaire and how to make the rest of your life, the best life, the aladdin factor dare to win richest kids in America whole lot of other book series been honored to.

David Horsager: Be inducted into many halls of fame and has earned the horatio alger award which is just a fantastic honor, as we know.

David Horsager: I wanted to start with something though mark Victor Hansen one thing i’ve noticed about you as i’ve watched you been in the same room with you watch on stage but also.

David Horsager: As a you know just in speaking and writing and all these things, something that stands out about you, compared to many others is and you’ve said this one plus one doesn’t equal to it equals or.

markvictorhansen: It.

David Horsager: can look like 11 and what i’ve noticed in your collaboration, if there was another word I would, I would say about you, other than generous and giver and you know world changer with your leadership and work, you know you have had this affinity for collaboration welcome collaboration.

David Horsager: way that many people are protecting of their work, but even in the new book you’re shining the light on so many others stories and chicken soup as a whole, built on collaboration and you know.

David Horsager: Much of your this the new book ask you and your wife are collaborating on that, but, and now the the money you’re giving to try to create energy and.

David Horsager: You know efficiency water pure water to the world it’s a collaboration effort tell me where you got that just willingness to take a risk and collaborate and why that’s such a part of your life.

markvictorhansen: Well, first of all I think everyone should take calculated risks and and the collaboration.

markvictorhansen: If you read Napoleon hill who studied Andrew Carnegie and i’m scholarly and both, and I hope you watch the videos on both of my YouTube but.

markvictorhansen: Andrew Carnegie said hey look what you have to have as a mastermind lines and he saw that Jesus had 12 disciples all synchro mesh net he never did his first miracle until he had this synchro mesh.

markvictorhansen: Mind power, so I read that you know 50 years ago and 1974 when I went bankrupt and started speaking, and all this, I said wow.

markvictorhansen: If that’s true the rest of my life I gotta have a mastermind because you create a third new invisible invincible.

markvictorhansen: unstoppable mind and that’s what I have with my wife and that’s what jack and I had when we created chicken soup, and you know hundred 44 publishers all actually said hit the road jack and I said look it’s Okay, if you know, like.

markvictorhansen: A really nice guy know jack wonderful is you know and during this class at Harvard and all that good stuff, but the fact of the matter is, is it on the outside guy he’s the inside guy and and.

markvictorhansen: We were perfect mastermind to create you know chicken soup and get a little invisible publisher to be one of the biggest in the world, a ci which people think that means Hansen canfield think it’s actually health communications I wish that we don’t do that even better.

David Horsager: Absolutely well 144 knows you know I think back to my first book and the nose and finally being picked up by.

David Horsager: I think the biggest publisher in our genre in the world at the time, but I tell the story, sometimes of the nose and I don’t want to hear mine, but I want to hear yours about.

David Horsager: You know this this perseverance, because I think it gets a little bit to this, I don’t want to jump the gun too early on the book asked, but you are willing to keep on keeping on what kept you going.


markvictorhansen: go there, but I want to first hit the know that you did it’s a two part question you asked for my ears and and.

markvictorhansen: One of the guys we interviewed in our great book ask is Peter guber the world’s biggest movie maker 50 academy awards rocky Batman.

markvictorhansen: And bought a little thing we’re seeing with my dinner one night and after we’ve taken a vacation with him and he said well those sports team today and I go he’s older than I am, and I go right.

markvictorhansen: Okay, so I give up who and he said a golden state warriors I said really I said now remember I came out of poverty, so this isn’t like you know I thought, if I ever became a millionaire would be a big deal, but he said I bought deaths and so, how much do you pay 770 million.

markvictorhansen: Well, now it’s worth about 3.8 billion about seven or eight years later back to it, though, what Peter did is he interviewed me and go on YouTube and see Peter.

markvictorhansen: guber and market grandson and what’s beautiful is he said mark i’m not dyslexic but he said is so dyslexic that he thinks the word no means on.

markvictorhansen: And it does at some levels, because if you get rejected.

markvictorhansen: And you don’t take it personally you I teach a clean four letter word in our book ask any eckstein next.

markvictorhansen: Because you know, we had to go through 144 people that hit the road and we’re not taking your book and then a lot of them came up to my wife and I later and say boy.

markvictorhansen: That mistake cost me 10s of millions of dollars, I said it’s certainly dig his books done $2 billion.

markvictorhansen: In licensing I created licensing and books, nobody had ever done it before and we did a billion dollars there, so you know if you have trusted if you have gumption if you have.

markvictorhansen: Most importantly self determination to action and you’re willing to overcome and understand that failure isn’t final failures just a learning experience that you can go over under around or through every obstacle and get to the other side of you know how to act.

David Horsager: You know into this time because that speaks of the challenges of the saying no but we just came through a crisis here worldwide pandemic there’s some social unrest, you said under one in one of your writings crisis equals opportunity let’s that meant for you.

markvictorhansen: Oh boy okay so first of all, you know I worked in China, at times, I mean we sold 324 million books there and.

markvictorhansen: They have this sign everyone seen the Ying and Yang and that’s where it comes from it’s a 6000 year old symbol so it’s got juice to it crisis equals opportunity.

markvictorhansen: And in the stock market, they obviously sued volatility is where you make it you, you know when it’s down you buy it that’s called discount buying that’s what Warren Buffett.

markvictorhansen: If you read today’s news he’s got $250 billion on the sideline and he says look the markets, going to crash it’s inevitable I just don’t know when and when it does i’ll just buy.

markvictorhansen: Right, because then instead of paying $1 for dollar you’re paying 10 cents, or one cent for $1 and so john Paul getty book, the whole oil industry.

markvictorhansen: And a penny on $1 during the depression, the Great Depression and now I don’t want any of that to happen.

markvictorhansen: You asked two or three questions i’m putting it together, maybe too much, but i’m saying look crisis equals opportunity we’re in this cocoon.

markvictorhansen: And the only way out of the cocoon is, if you learn how to ask questions to find your the subtitle of the book is.

markvictorhansen: From the bridge to your dreams, all of us have dreams, hopefully to your destiny, if you don’t have dreams you’re not alive.

markvictorhansen: Right and no matter what your chronology with their little kid I dream of getting a bicycle or you’re a big kid I dreamed gone fishing or I dream of.

markvictorhansen: Learning a new language or getting travel, we need to make all that stuff happen again and everybody’s got to go to their destiny that’s what i’m recommending.

David Horsager: While we’re there now let’s talk about this book and then let’s jump back to leadership even more afterwards, because we’ve jumped in, and I think.

David Horsager: boy that that’s what it is ask bridge from your the bridge from your dreams to your destiny and there’s a there is there’s so many I can’t I can’t state enough, there are so many powerful concepts, I think you even said something in a video I watched about it that this have.

David Horsager: All these books and all this, this is your what you believe is your most important work why, why do you say that.

markvictorhansen: Well i’ve been blessed to sell you know 318 books.

markvictorhansen: Sorry 312 books done 318 by the end of the year and 59 times number one but ask is changing people at a time, they need to get change, people are.

markvictorhansen: We say there are seven roadblocks to asking and then go into those in a minute, but everybody’s sucked into this fear.

markvictorhansen: You know there’s the fear of general the malaise of fear and then there’s the fear of of just your neighbor now because we’ve been so divisional and when we need leadership to bring back trust to bring back agreement to bring back harmony.

David Horsager: So let’s let’s talk about those you know we can think well asking for our set, you have given different different pieces, you know, ask for my.

David Horsager: Self asked God, some of these different ways of asking but let’s talk about the roadblocks asking because we can’t get anywhere unless we get rid of some of these roadblocks.

David Horsager: blocks number one was unworthy and so it kind of starts with yourself, but he gives you a good night people need to get the book we’re not going to get through it all, but I want to just give enough.

David Horsager: So people see the value of learning to ask well and the power of asking, and you have a whole section on the benefits of asking but let’s talk just just give us a brief on these roadblocks so people can start to uncover some.

markvictorhansen: Good what we say there’s three channels to asking ask yourself ask others and ask God and in any given time.

markvictorhansen: Then we got seven roadblocks the first one you just hit was unworthiness, then you got dealt, then you got fear.

markvictorhansen: Then you got pattern paralysis, then you got naive and take, then you got disconnection and you got excuse ology and we can switch the order it doesn’t matter.

markvictorhansen: And we can talk to any one of them, but every one of us has felt, some of them and what our book does based on now.

markvictorhansen: We get all these gazillion readers around the world that are looking at a mirror, for the first time to go holy cow, this is the thing that stifled stop toward me.

markvictorhansen: And i’m saying hey wait a second i’m asking you to find out well my wife says every one of us has four times more talent abilities skills and genius inside then we’re using.

markvictorhansen: And the only way to bring it out as asking any only way to get over all the problems at all, I was reading David is if we start to ask, we ask wisely would love.

markvictorhansen: And we transcend our current human limitations and at some levels, they asked God means you go to a.

markvictorhansen: divine wisdom about your own life and your own destiny, because we believe everybody was coated at birth, with a destiny and maybe multiplicity of destinies it’s like when when wernher von braun which I got to meet when bucky was senior advisor NASA when I was a little kid and 21.

markvictorhansen: He said when we’re going to the moon 99% of the time we’re off target and we just got to keep reshuffling well that’s what questions do.

markvictorhansen: Right it’s like people say, well, how do you increase will have this greatest love affair, well, I say it’s like looking at this culture of David in Florence Italy.

markvictorhansen: And they said in Michelangelo mikkel how you make it David he said chippy out everything’s that David so.

markvictorhansen: We get rid of our baggage by asking questions about in our self worth and our worthiness and our self esteem and.

markvictorhansen: and making sure that we feel good about ourselves good about each other, because it says love your neighbor as yourself meaning you get a positive and correct real self love before you can love anyone else.

David Horsager: So we’ll listen listen answer yeah well that’s an answer that’s for sure that’s a good one.

David Horsager: But what let’s let’s take a look at some of the questions you have these golden nugget you know question.

David Horsager: questions that we can ask and some just a whole lot of takeaways that you can use in the book or or apply, but if i’ve got these roadblocks and in it like how do I start asking the right questions to maybe it’s to myself at first well.

markvictorhansen: Excellent question first of all, obviously you do to yourself.

markvictorhansen: And when you’re reading the questions in the book and ask yourself ask others ask God start to write them out, because when you write out the answers you have levels of illumination revelation insight wisdom.

markvictorhansen: And pretty soon when you ask those questions you go Oh, my goodness, I could do that and it’s a wake up, now the second thing to do.

markvictorhansen: Is you buddy up with somebody it could be your spouse, it could be a church brand it could be a business partner, it could be another leader.

markvictorhansen: It could be a telephone mentor a zoom link I don’t care how you do it, but if two people go through all these questions, they are transformative because our corporate symbol is you know, is a butterfly.

markvictorhansen: And what happens is everything caterpillar you can’t look at caterpillar and predict butterfly but we’ve all been in this coven.

markvictorhansen: lockdown which i’m going to call a cocoon rather than a chrysalis right now, and in a cocoon.

markvictorhansen: The only way to break through is with questions when I was bankrupt and upside down in 1974 and last $2 million a day.

markvictorhansen: I asked the wrong question I said oh my gosh What if I go bankrupt I checked the book at the library, how to go bankrupt by yourself.

markvictorhansen: And then for six months i’m sleeping in front of another guy’s room I think he probably heard me tell this story in a sleeping bag and I kept saying to myself ask yourself ask us God I didn’t really know that but I what am I want to do, and I said I want to talk to people that care.

markvictorhansen: But things that matter that would make a life transformative different I go to my three roommates in hicksville long island New York have breakfast I say guys.

markvictorhansen: I decided what I want to be, I think I want to grow up and be a professional speaker, do you know anyone that’s young that’s not a broadway actor because we’re.

markvictorhansen: In New York, not an actor actress a doctor or a lawyer or some sort of celebrity and bumped my age are a little older.

markvictorhansen: Guy said there’s a kid a little older to here’s my ticket I was going to go here them he’s phenomenal is chip college, you know, like.

markvictorhansen: I jump in my little beat up a Volkswagen a bankruptcy courts have not taken race out to hop on going on the order for three hours just kind of mesmerized everybody.

markvictorhansen: At the end of which I walk up to and I asked, I say chip a market grants and i’d like to may I asked you to lunch, I want to buy your lunch and you teach me how to do the speaking business.

markvictorhansen: He said look good chance you making this one 1000 you’re going to make it to go through a real business I said no, no, this is the one I want i’m convinced.

markvictorhansen: Let me decide, he said okay you stay out of real estate.

markvictorhansen: I own this business in the five boroughs area and you go into life insurance and I didn’t know I didn’t know what a life insurance was or premier or anything but I thought Okay, and I wrote notes.

markvictorhansen: called intend to the next day, the 10th guy he said, one in 10 would buy it what a great thing, and it was a giant I mean this guy weighed 450 pounds.

markvictorhansen: Naked to the know ink pen on I mean you just be use it on Tony i’m number one will not the ball from the number one company markets, the directory.

markvictorhansen: You call everybody there’s like seven at night, and you don’t big conical, and so I got talks like crazy, so I did a.

markvictorhansen: Tony robbins are talking once on a big seminar together and we talked backstage and each of us have done 1000 times a year, the first three years.

markvictorhansen: I mean, I was do the talking or selling talks in there, like 45 minute talks 20 minute talks, whatever they let me do and get paid for, and.

markvictorhansen: People kept saying, do you have that in a book and it’s amazing we did the book I don’t know where it is on the shelf here, but here it is like we did the book.

markvictorhansen: First book I did is called stand up speak out and when and.

markvictorhansen: I said to the audience and now remember i’m talking to six people 10 people never more than 50 and I said, this is not a new College so.

markvictorhansen: it’s not a national bestseller, but it is my best on, and I want to assign it to you, your wife your kids and if you got a dog, I want to put your dog in here.

markvictorhansen: David good this guy’s ridiculous, but all six of model six or 2720 would buy it I sold 20,000 copies from the little platforms in one year.

markvictorhansen: I went from zero to hero, again, I went from bankruptcy to earn 200,000 now today that’s like $2 million yeah and I thought oh man i’m in heaven i’m going to just go back and really right and think this stuff through and now 312 books later I think it’s going to work.

David Horsager: Well, and you know what’s interesting here is, I mean uncover something that people see the success now and certainly there’s perseverance in this work, we talked about doing the work.

David Horsager: But what was that, like on your family young kids all that I remember, I think a story, you told one time.

David Horsager: To me about just you’re both you know fall asleep on planes from one end of the country to the other when chicken soup was going going crazy I just think how did you, you know.

David Horsager: stay in touch with these the mentors you had the mastermind you had how did you keep up with your being a dad and whatnot you know.

markvictorhansen: By way i’ve never had anyone ask that question, but first of all thank you for the question and it’s true.

markvictorhansen: When jack and I first of all, nobody would take the book hundred 44 pills and an agent who you know I won’t name him.

markvictorhansen: But he fired us and that’s cost him like 10s of millions of dollars right so i’ll leave him out of this thing because there’s no reason to besmirch anyone ever if I can do it not do it.

markvictorhansen: We we went to the aba American booksellers We walked in and like we put together the best stories from different people and the first guy to come up to us.

markvictorhansen: We had a big beard and he look like Santa Claus except he was wearing a suit and I thought wow I think I kiss both cheeks and said boy, you really going to make it.

markvictorhansen: Let me look at your name tag who the hell, are you and it turned out to be a router Dr Robert full Jim the guy who wrote everything I need to learn, I learned in kindergarten which I mean.

markvictorhansen: i’m an addicted reader and remember, I was illiterate in school, you know from first grade two sixth grade, I was in remedial reading because my parents, we had no books that are also a guarantor Danish.

markvictorhansen: I lived in Denmark, I thought everybody went to the Danish brotherhood and Saturday night and.

markvictorhansen: A nice to filter and filter efficient stuff you don’t even know the names of and frack adele and stuff which is fine.

markvictorhansen: but luckily they taught me to read now morals best selling author, so it shows that you can track foreigners oh.

markvictorhansen: Any I said jack and I are there and the guy says you’re really going to succeed, big and he told me that jack jack or stand with me good, who is that I said that’s Dr phone tomorrow, one of our favorite.

markvictorhansen: He said why didn’t he talked to me you got me I don’t know I talked to me I didn’t look at once, and maybe it was just being nice to everybody, I don’t know.

markvictorhansen: Any so we get turned down by a lot more boots and then one little house health health communication at I took us because the guy said.

markvictorhansen: Yesterday you gave we’re there three days which we’ve been talking 17 days and rolling and I gotta go tell my wife oh my God.

markvictorhansen: you’re not gonna believe that i’m going over to the anaheim Convention Center for the next three days with jack and we’re bringing backpacks with a.

markvictorhansen: Three ring binders and we’re going to try sell ourselves because everybody fired up and they’ve already they’ve seen a pink slip back then there were a nice and wrote pink slips say kiss your butt goodbye.

markvictorhansen: Anyhow, that one of the Gary seidler the two partners said I read it, I cried all over my my shirt if you.

markvictorhansen: promise to buy them at $6 each and buy 20,000 copies, you know, over the next year will publish it will we were both doing seminars jack and I separately, about a quarter million people a year.

markvictorhansen: I was doing business people, mostly and heavy and life insurance and mlm big churches and jack was doing the educational market, so we had some big markets.

markvictorhansen: And we sold the seminars everywhere, like one of the stories we have in our asked book.

markvictorhansen: We just got to write for the book published Charlie green ones and man, I saw you at a mega church here in Kansas city said I couldn’t believe that he said.

markvictorhansen: You love the audience here, we had them spiritually alive and then at the very end, you said okay look I got this manuscript nobody’s going to take it.

markvictorhansen: I want you to pray that we’re going to sell a million copies of this book oh chicken soup for the soul, he said I couldn’t believe that everybody got prayed we did it stood up and praying.

markvictorhansen: And then, he said, you did the coup de gras which I really couldn’t believe there’s 5000 people and you say.

markvictorhansen: By the way, I don’t want to take away from the ties or love offerings but all of you have a little slip there, I want you to fill out an order form.

markvictorhansen: And when the book comes out, I promise i’ll sign it and send it to you and I get doctor came to do the same.

markvictorhansen: And I really wanted this book somebody’s going to publish it and I need you to trust me and he said to a person in the room, that means a very rich church obviously help fill.

markvictorhansen: In I mean good Charlie was only I mean he’s big in the Church, he was a deacon the Dickens or whatever the joke is but.

markvictorhansen: But he said I help collect he said I want your bucket full of weeds that couldn’t believe it, he said you were so bold, to ask, I said.

markvictorhansen: I have nothing to lose a minister liked me and the Church, the people thought wow I should grow up and be that courageous to go out and ask and do stuff that I haven’t been able to do, everyone needs to come out of this.

markvictorhansen: cocoon we’re talking about this coven cocoon to ask morning and we got to get back on track, it working and living and entrepreneurs and leading into people that you’ve got you’ve got to be visionary leaders, could I say either.

markvictorhansen: going to be a visionary leader that lead and you can’t hear.

markvictorhansen: I need us to be first place again mentally in lead yourself and then lead others.

David Horsager: Speaking of leading yourself a lot of great leaders are you know we talked about the slot trust leadership, they they.

David Horsager: they’re leading yourself there if you’re going to lead others you tend to lead yourself well, what did you.

David Horsager: What do you do, do you ever teens habits worried, this is what I do to leave myself what am I, you know what am I doing daily weekly, monthly lead myself, because you have a massive voice of leadership to others, what are you doing to lead yourself, or have you over the years.

markvictorhansen: Perfect I love the question I want to go to the macro and into micro what I actually do, but the macro is in psalm 72 Solomon said the job of you and I, as leader is to be an influencer of influencers I when I read that I highlighted it nice put a star, by the way.

markvictorhansen: I could be an influencer an employer Sir sorry it’s I started but that’s it so every day good, let me go back to a story, we put into book.

markvictorhansen: When crystal our fall in love long long ago we’re sitting at the mothers marketing coach makes me feel in California, we now live in loves scottsdale Arizona.

markvictorhansen: Guy sit next versus the old man of the cloth mean serious mature guy 97 he said look I can’t help but interrupt you guys are so in love you mind if I tell you the secret to staying in love.

markvictorhansen: And like i’m going to say no, I don’t want to know any secret, he says i’m had a billy Graham relationship ministries for last 70 years i’m 92 years old, I said well congratulations father.

markvictorhansen: yeah I said, what is it, he said, people that pray out loud together is the only thing we found that keeps people together, so my wife and I, you know did before we got married and obviously everyday sense and we spend an hour every morning praying and meditating and visualizing what is.

markvictorhansen: Asking each other all the questions, how do we unfold today to be more magnificent more wonderful for each other and for our kids or grandkids our family our city or state or country and the world.

markvictorhansen: And source and service levels that has never been sourcing served it like we are.

markvictorhansen: Co Chairman of child hope, right now, which is busy raising a billion dollars and we’ve helped 10 and a half million kids get out of abuse neglect.

markvictorhansen: and child trafficking that’s one of the things we’re doing and I think, then, the second thing we’re doing is.

markvictorhansen: we’re about to do a podcasting and invite you to help us with hopefully get 15 million people help but.

markvictorhansen: What we’re going to do is because the library has been closed off for a year, which is not okay with me just like bookstore is going out of business, not okay I love those all those people in the book business and.

markvictorhansen: they’ve been superior to me, so this is not an indictment on anybody it’s it’s uh let’s get back to work guys and ladies.

markvictorhansen: And we’re all the libraries have agreed that we’re going to have this wonderful day and we’re going to America is becoming a literate because people are reading too much.

markvictorhansen: Too much facetime on on their cell phones kids i’m talking about 75% of kids in in California can’t read when they graduate high school and.

markvictorhansen: I don’t know where you’re at, but I have to believe that you agree with me that that’s not okay.

markvictorhansen: So what i’m going to do is ask one third of the seniors and baby boomers guys and ladies like me will take now in the ratio, I take 10 kids and mentor them a year but.

markvictorhansen: i’m going to ask everybody to take just one kid go to the library read teach him or her, how to read it’s not it is a doable.

markvictorhansen: assignment in America, and then we got to change that and expand the whole world, because I believe, and I think you do as a leader.

markvictorhansen: You know the cliche I think it was john F Kennedy who said it all great readers are leaders, but all leaders are readers and if it wasn’t john I don’t know who it was, but we look it up and you want to claim.

David Horsager: lots of people have said it and lots of people have claimed it.

markvictorhansen: But remember jack and I are in the business and trying to do attribute you know, but who the heck knows right i’m.

David Horsager: pretty sure was Abraham Lincoln but you know.

David Horsager: Denise everything great.

David Horsager: Well, you know this this gets me thinking about it, you know we’re going all over this the way I do it because you jog my mind on so many things, but you kind of a framework.

David Horsager: Your as far as philanthropy Europe passionate giver these days and you’re doing a lot of great things with your time talent treasures, but you talk about four types of types of tithing thinking time talent and treasures.

markvictorhansen: Right.

David Horsager: We get treasures quickly we get talent quickly we get time quickly, what about thinking.

markvictorhansen: Oh, first of all, I wrote a whole book called the miracle of tithing right which is really good the miracle of giving and that’s where I quoted all that and I said then, the fifth one two bonus one is being thankful.

markvictorhansen: You got to have the more you’re thankful for the more you get we, the reason I sell more books anybody is that we tie then every book.

markvictorhansen: And you know that’s a front end guaranteed, you know, open up the windows of heaven a $40 ritual or but all you gotta do is fine cause related charity winter in trouble, and let me just give you two that were example so.

markvictorhansen: Elizabeth goal, who would have been a great President, by the way, said hey mark i’m head of the Red Cross and you got these crazy ideas and sometimes I work.

markvictorhansen: I should thank you and she says i’m on a blood and I said well let’s get it from the mdm they watch blood and guts every day and make sure it helps you said i’ve tried 570,000 mth they won’t help.

markvictorhansen: In other words, I think, by the way, now i’m doing my position i’m on my soapbox.

markvictorhansen: But if you are your kid needs blood, I think you ought to go and get 10 of your friends to give blood back to report we don’t have anything called pseudo blood.

markvictorhansen: So if you go to the hospital and you need blood that’s, the only thing that is blood compatible, for your blood that makes sense.

markvictorhansen: yeah so she said well come up with another idea it’s at how fast you needed yesterday that’s a good one week, she said, you can do that I said, one of my markets is chiropractic I have gotten.

markvictorhansen: I get 10 honorary doctorates three from chiropractic colleges at life and in Cleveland and Parker so I said.

markvictorhansen: I know all 77,000 chiropractors, I teach them how to have high volume massive practices in cash practice know that.

markvictorhansen: i’ve never asked him for anything i’m going to ask him to call all their old patient and bring them in and the.

markvictorhansen: Patients and get an adjustment or an activated gun or getting massage or whatever they do at the practice and a lot of these practices are.

markvictorhansen: multimodal practices and they hire mbas to work for them so it’s great stuff but they see 25 million patients, a week.

markvictorhansen: And I said guys and ladies you’re in trouble, right now, because insurance stop paying you i’m going to make sure you get paid because I just done this set of audio tapes right interviewed all the people.

markvictorhansen: The best chiropractors make over a million a year by doing cash only no insurance.

markvictorhansen: And we saw a lot of those but we gave a copy of chicken soup for the soul treat everybody that came in, to give blood well we get enough blood to be cryogenically frozen for a year and a half in advance, we took two negatives, and you remember in math and negative times negative is a.

markvictorhansen: Positive positive right we get chiropractic in trouble because they’ve just had their funds cut right follow the money we had.

markvictorhansen: we’ve had the blood saying a lot of people are dying nine people a minute we’re dying because there is no blood at the end no blood at the hospital sorry I shouldn’t use a spiritual of reference hospital, I spoke, I never did that, before I apologize.

markvictorhansen: I don’t want to miss merge anybody, but the point is there’s every problem has a solution that’s why we’re saying in our ass book.

markvictorhansen: What you gotta do is get somebody that’s willing to think out of the box and do stuff that no one’s ever thought about before.

markvictorhansen: And and ask bigger questions like right now we got eight a billion people unemployed in the world somebody’s got to think at a new level and that’s why the last part of the book where you and I started, even before we started the recording.

markvictorhansen: We got Peter diamandis, who is a PhD md Harvard md PhD MIT genius X prize creator and Peter says, what do you personally going to do during this decade to positively affect 1 billion people.

markvictorhansen: that’s the question everybody when you drink that question in as a leader you start saying hey wait a second I gotta quit being amateur hour here.

markvictorhansen: You know I got to be a visionary leader and remember what Solomon said, is without vision we perish if you put that in English with vision we flourish.

markvictorhansen: So I really want to help a billion people learn how to read that don’t know how to read now do I know how to do that heck no.

markvictorhansen: Do I know that I am taking a crazy leadership position that i’ll get attacked for by some people saying we can’t do that, by the way, that’s fine with me, because any leader as a.

markvictorhansen: target on his or her back, I think you know that right.

David Horsager: You want to be critiqued for living lead something.

markvictorhansen: yeah.

David Horsager: or write a book.

David Horsager: or or give a speech right you’ll get.

markvictorhansen: It the world’s best selling author and you got a lot of.

David Horsager: arrows coming at you, and a lot of them.

markvictorhansen: And I always write my critics back way if I see it, and I say thank you very much, I just really appreciate that I don’t agree with anything you said because blah blah blah but.

markvictorhansen: here’s what I, this is what i’m doing and, by the way, when you got a credential that you really can now if they get something legitimate to say I will Rebecca.

markvictorhansen: i’m coachable that’s one of the things a good leader is, I think, and i’m coachable and I accept coaching and Trent and we say, one of our 38 points is.

markvictorhansen: He backs breakfast of champions but, but if you have something asinine I don’t like it, because of the way you look I can’t do much about that.

markvictorhansen: Right i’m bald it’s the way it is cow.

David Horsager: How do we start to how do we start like that there’s so many places, I could go and I can highlight different you know i’ve highlighted a bunch of.

David Horsager: a bunch of parts of this book we’re not going to get through it all people got to get the book asked, but how do we start to ask the right questions, how do we start to this journey it’s like some people think Oh, they just ask you just good at it or not, how do we start.

markvictorhansen: there’s no such thing as good at it or bad, first of all those little kids you ask everything I don’t know if you’ve got any kids or grandkids you’ve got in kids.

markvictorhansen: For or they see you know, I was one of four crystal is one of nine and then we got five and six grandkids we’re big on kids.

markvictorhansen: The point is, is that you’re going to know where you are because, if I call uber here to my house they got to know where you are Where are you today, and you gotta ask yourself and then go through all that stuff.

markvictorhansen: And then the second part is one where everybody’s stumbles almost 99% appeal stumble where do you want to go.

markvictorhansen: Right and I was stumbling until I said look, I want to grow up become world’s best selling author, which people said you haven’t even written a book, can you want to be let’s get out of here.

markvictorhansen: It did you go to the nth degree what what actions are you going to have to take to get from here to there.

markvictorhansen: and obviously what you asked about it before and I may not have done it like we’re going on to today’s show there’s Longo and with oprah and all that and jack and I are.

markvictorhansen: Getting up in the morning good media all day doing a lunch and talk during the late night talk before.

markvictorhansen: All that travel restrictions, you can get on a plane at 11 go to the next place and start all over again, but we.

markvictorhansen: get to New York got five though tell like one o’clock he still has three piece suit we had no money so we’re sharing same room.

markvictorhansen: Different beds, of course, and he’s sleeping in a three piece suit and I got to wake them up at three o’clock us at five o’clock you got to be at NBC begins on katie couric and matt lauer.

markvictorhansen: And and most people don’t know that right you’re going to be there for three hours, but you got to be there, an hour early and i’m saying jack you gotta get up and he was saying nasty words to me, and he said.

markvictorhansen: I suggest you don’t want to be katie Kirk you don’t have to me.

markvictorhansen: I didn’t go and do it alone i’m big enough, I can handle it.

markvictorhansen: And we were exhausted, and it was exactly what you said, if you’re going to do a real leadership job you got to ask yourself, who I am.

markvictorhansen: Who am I becoming and where do I want to go what is my full fledged flat out destiny and you got to ask all the way and then, if you got problems, you asked.

markvictorhansen: Hopefully you got a great mentor and your mentor mentee relationship and hopefully you’re mentoring and then you got to ask your staff.

markvictorhansen: When it comes to you with a problem you said, David if you’re coming to me with whatever problem, it is in a company, I said, well, what are the three solutions you have and come back to me tomorrow or an hour for now, and tell me the best one of those three solutions love it.

David Horsager: You know it’s funny I was just talking to just had someone else on the show, and she was given also a biblical reference of back to your mentor piece, she said, we need to have a Paul we get wisdom from we now Timothy.

David Horsager: We need to have a.

David Horsager: Someone were pouring into.

David Horsager: An a you know we need someone that’s going to challenge us like Nathan, we need somebody.

David Horsager: that’s going to encourage us like barnabas and this this tribe, that we need as leaders and we often say it around here if you’re doing leadership alone you’re doing it wrong, we need others and that’s a back to your.

David Horsager: start as a collaborator to some people, that seems you know oh my destiny is this is all about me i’m asking questions, for me, and it seems selfish, what do you say.

markvictorhansen: It has to be.

markvictorhansen: let’s just take you know when I was in with bucky I wrote my hundred year goals, all the stuff i’d like to do i’m going to be 120 seventh options will know, because you get to write down all your living living on.

markvictorhansen: The cake, the richest man in the world, right now, is one of my heroes Elon musk, whether you like him or not is irrelevant to me, but you gotta admit his leadership style is solid.

markvictorhansen: I mean here’s a guy is still no you can’t build a more tesla’s here at whatever it is fremont California and say says Okay, I understand what you said, Mr Governor, but let me see what I gotta do.

markvictorhansen: Calls up 3am company and says hey guys you haven’t got the ability to make enough ventilators I have 3D printing.

markvictorhansen: i’ve got manpower I got metal sitting out there just give me the thing and we’ll split 5050 and tell me how many want and I haven’t done like that.

markvictorhansen: Except that when he did it David he’s a real leader see we don’t have any real leaders now as far as i’m.

markvictorhansen: i’m now in dating some people i’m asking them to wake up, be a real leader and i’m a real leader so i’m glad to skin and confronting window.

markvictorhansen: But I am here’s my he’s my hero right he made 90,000 cards became the richest man in the world.

markvictorhansen: And now, this week, he says look in six months i’m going to have two things are going to have a battery about the size of your thumbnail that goes a million miles and your car is going to be so light we’re going to have a new flying car it’s going to be.

markvictorhansen: Equivalent robo taxi because of spacex, which is one of the five companies, he is you know he made 500,012 years old and with his brother and then he did PayPal with the Peter Teal then.

markvictorhansen: goes to Stanford he economics undergraduate degree, and you know it is just amazing what he has pulled off and then.

markvictorhansen: You know, he says, because of spacex I figured out how we can have a vertical liftoff vehicle negotiate straight ahead.

markvictorhansen: And people are saying no you can’t do that Well, no, no, they can’t do it Boeing can do it like he can’t do but he’s not locked into the same.

markvictorhansen: metaphysics and, by the way the top physics bucky always use teachers metaphysics thinking consciousness awareness and you know going into God and saying hey God show me how to do this.

markvictorhansen: And, and it turns out that alone is exceedingly spiritual in an elevated ascended consciousness like his hero Nikola tesla if I go I probably went too far again tonight.

David Horsager: it’s your we want to hear from you so yeah so what what gets is I mean part of this is, you know Elon musk is asking different questions right.

markvictorhansen: I did all of us have the same 24 hours, all of us start off with the same value of $1 and the dollar is invaluable and to figure out how you ask yourself how am I going to use this.

markvictorhansen: to advance myself and he had to sell all of his real estate with the last year just to keep this company, going so he and I admire the guy because.

markvictorhansen: When I had a hiccup back in 2008 I have to click crazy watches, and I have a cell every watch to stay afloat and.

markvictorhansen: You know just what you have to do you got to do and and everyone thinks well you’re rich and successful and you sold all those books, you can have a money problem.

markvictorhansen: You try to borrow serious money from your friends and you find out that you do have a money problem because.

markvictorhansen: Only serious friends will lend you serious money and most of my friends, who I thought would lend that kind of money and add it wouldn’t do it, so it taught me a serious lesson who’s real who’s not.

David Horsager: You know, in the in the end of toward the end of the book you talk about questioning everything tell us about that.

markvictorhansen: Well, give me a topic and i’ll show you how to question it from my point of view at least.

David Horsager: Well, you know what i’ve got two of them that I really highlighted, in fact, one of them was your you know how you keep your romance and love life, like you, vibrant and so maybe a couple thoughts there and then just the whole.

David Horsager: i’ll jump into the second one, when you answer something about that about that.

markvictorhansen: Let me wind it back just a little bit I went through a very painful divorce and I thought i’d never married again and told a lot of my friends that I wouldn’t and I wrote down 267 things.

markvictorhansen: In my ideal world for qualities or values of virtues of characteristics, we had both be totally monogamous we both had she had her own business, because I don’t want somebody marrying me from a wallet.

markvictorhansen: We had to have exactly the same values and what I wanted was a soulmate and what I got was a twin flame somebody the mirrors me 100% like we can finish each other’s thoughts and.

markvictorhansen: she’s young girl by 14 years she’s beautiful she’s wonderful and our kids had to get along and we decided that we’re going to make.

markvictorhansen: happily ever after our happily ever after every day and so every day during meditation and prayer that we do together every morning like clockwork.

markvictorhansen: Early usually before podcast once while we have early podcasts in foreign countries and then do it afterwards, but we’ve never missed a day and and decades so.

markvictorhansen: We decided we’re going to our relationship with each other is paramount, now we figure out what that means, with our kids grandkids businesses and because we’re involved in a lot of stuff a lot of charities we you know help out and we say this is what I think we can do and.

markvictorhansen: We can make it happen and let’s talk this through.

David Horsager: So, so you, you tell us tell me another level of like okay to my partner my wife 24 years married what what would I, how would I use questions to.

David Horsager: deepen our love.

markvictorhansen: Good asked her what question she should be asking you that you’ve been naive dash.

David Horsager: Perfect spot to start.

is a nice place loving.

David Horsager: Jesus asking questions back and forth here don’t answer, by the way, there’s never a time that you won’t have a wife tell you what you should be asked, never.

David Horsager: Well, something another part that was, I think, is relevant to everybody and you make this comment in the book.

David Horsager: I don’t have the page, I have my notes on this part, so I can’t go through all of it but don’t try to sell ask what they need.

David Horsager: And you have a client a strategy I think that’s beautiful with questions that we would just ask you know.

David Horsager: Ask about them first ask about their problems, ask what the ideal would be asked asked about you know what’s the perfect scenario for them tell about that process because everybody here.

David Horsager: is listening, you know we are growing businesses are have businesses are leading businesses, and I think some people take that wrong.

markvictorhansen: Okay, so we go into the biggest company here in Arizona is called as they manufacture most the copper for the world right.

markvictorhansen: For report MAC Moran I mean we’re talking about $15 billion profit here we’re talking about a major company and i’m not one selling but.

markvictorhansen: Preston weeks we wrote the story about goes in and and this lady is so powerful in this company, you know, to get.

markvictorhansen: You personally gotta pay homage and because I do my homework before we go and I knew that she was an Africa for eight years in the Congo.

markvictorhansen: And you know, to me, that is just exceedingly exciting I could care less about her business, I went all ever told me about the Congo, so, first of all, we build a report relationship, but then.

David Horsager: My wife, by the way, was a missionary kid in Congo Well now, the Democratic Republic of Congo.

David Horsager: yeah wow.

markvictorhansen: Congratulations and tell her Thank you.

David Horsager: yeah cool.

markvictorhansen: By the way, I did it’s irrelevant anything but i’m you know, one of the guys, I read wrote the book Congo and Michael not that not that the guy wrote every kind of.

markvictorhansen: blinking is a crime, Michael crichton wrote the Congo and I don’t know if you read it, but it just in a.

markvictorhansen: Great way anyhow back to the thing so Preston just does this whole thing of asking questions and you’re going to give us 20 minutes, and she did 20 minutes and just the Congo and then.

markvictorhansen: Now he now an hour and a half, two hours is gone by and they said.

markvictorhansen: We gotta tell you yesterday a $64 billion company came in and said pop up up up up up up, we got this this this this, this is what you need.

markvictorhansen: Is what you got to do and and they said we kicked him out for guys that were seasoned professionals that were insulting to yes, there are $64 billion company yes we’re $15 billion profit come in, but you just don’t put.

markvictorhansen: right they had no relationship ability questions are always going to be the answer, but if you ask the right question, you can get anywhere in the world kind of give a quick personal story.

David Horsager: anyways please love it.

markvictorhansen: So when I met crystal we’re at I did the author, one on one and number two VIP room and grounded by people late at night on a Saturday night and she’s across the way and Lady.

markvictorhansen: hits a glass of red wine my wife and drinking and wiped out or white pants well, I see this I parked the car grab her hand I said I know where the the.

markvictorhansen: The whatever that stuff is it gets rid of a stain and pants and here not.

David Horsager: scarred or something.

David Horsager: What scott’s got or.

markvictorhansen: No, no, no.

David Horsager: it’s looking.

markvictorhansen: Anyhow, I remain on blank on but that night, I had the answer.

markvictorhansen: I asked her along a megan short guy take you to dinner, and she said yeah we get to the best place in Hollywood.

markvictorhansen: And I mean aligned 50 people long and I go $100 bill is going to get any insight there, I will just charge up to the gatekeeper and he sees how beautiful my wife is I mean she’s been a top marlin Star and all that a lot to magazine covers and stuff and says Okay, I give up who issue.

markvictorhansen: I said you don’t recognize your num goofing around.

markvictorhansen: And not getting any way.

markvictorhansen: and his mind’s going on steroids, and through people magazine and install and vogue and you can’t figure out he thinks she’s a movie star good she has a she has supper.

markvictorhansen: presence and effervescence and Pluto trueness just emanates out every pore of my wife’s being and anyone who doesn’t.

markvictorhansen: can go look at the pictures on the line with us and you’ll see that you know I pale in comparison and I, you know i’m so blessed anyhow so guys is OK, I give up, who is she now we’re both of Danish to set so i’m goofing still I say she’s a Queen of Denmark.

markvictorhansen: He says no she’s not this oh my gosh she is who are you back to questions I said, who travels with the Queen or the King hold on.

markvictorhansen: We had the best table in place and chefs coming out with a homeschool fan.

markvictorhansen: And club soda is what gets stains blood and sorry I couldn’t you know my mind was so far from telling you that anyhow so.

markvictorhansen: And we just we started talking and just cheap gone through divorce I going through divorce was like.

markvictorhansen: we’ve been best friends forever and i’m saying for those that are single out there, there is some perfect person, no matter what your chronology know assuming.

markvictorhansen: you’re over 21 and probably marriageable you know there’s somebody out there for you there’s a billion peoples of 4 billion or women more or less so, you know play a chance.

David Horsager: Plenty chance wow this has been fascinating I could ask questions all day and i’ve got an honor your time here, this is um wow.

David Horsager: I might one of my favorites the last five minutes was questions are always the answer there we go questions that if you haven’t put that I don’t remember that in the book.

markvictorhansen: But it was one of those lines and area just is great yeah and I didn’t put it in my quote book a long time ago and I hope I didn’t steal that from somebody that being an omnivorous reader, it is possible, but I did it and.

David Horsager: Abraham Lincoln.

markvictorhansen: By the way, he was a trusted leader and had a tough go of it and.

markvictorhansen: I have to come from his home state at least what they claimed it was his home state of Illinois so i’m i’m scholarly in him and low levels and Dale Carnegie wrote a book about them, and you know when I was there, so I even know that stuff so.

David Horsager: How do you keep you know i’m just gonna just open up here just to touch base on a little bit of leadership and just some things i’m thinking about you stay.

David Horsager: How do you stay so fresh and creative you’re reading well that’s one thing you keep reading you’re not just a writer you’re a reader but.

David Horsager: What are some of the things you do to just stay, you know fresh you’ve you’ve written on so many things, financial and relational and life, and you know you become an expert in several different businesses, how do you keep this a little bit Elon musk ish.

markvictorhansen: yeah Well, first of all, I think you should never retire I did write the book like he said with art linkletter how to make the rest your life better life and he was 98 the only reason he died is not as help he missed his wife, who had.

markvictorhansen: I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings or but she got alzheimer’s and he couldn’t handle it and she died, and then you know she wasn’t with them, she didn’t remember him in.

markvictorhansen: Like a month before he died he called crystal I up because he loved us or Daddy on other Kentucky fried chicken and Mexico, with which I did not know until you know we were up there, that was not my you don’t ask what is your Daddy on right.

markvictorhansen: You know what do you do I just I mean I met her dad and the first thing he did, is he put his hand in the bag and pulled out a pro handle a gun and I Idaho and I said well look i’m a pretty good shot myself, but I would like a gun if we’re gonna have a shootout you’re over your doctor.

markvictorhansen: And he and I became great friends, he was a superstar.

markvictorhansen: Wait where’s your question I.

David Horsager: Totally, so I think there’s just a piece here I think it’s.

David Horsager: Interesting to me how do you keep innovating me keep I could answer some of it for you, but you keep fresh some of that’s books some of that’s that you’re asking the right questions, but just staying so creative any any other anything else.

markvictorhansen: The people you hang out with your you’ve got to be alive like and I gotta tell you that, because you’re a podcaster and a great one.

markvictorhansen: Is it is it I believe podcasting is a new when I grew up in the 50s we had the first TV and a block my dad.

markvictorhansen: Financing for the rest of his life for $700 and back then nose and 50,000 giant money right, but everyone will come and watch our TV in or three channels.

markvictorhansen: It turned the question is what channel or you turn to and if your turn to positivity and stay positive.

markvictorhansen: And i’m saying everybody’s got to shut off the negativity and the news now it’s just it’s too blatantly painful.

markvictorhansen: and distressing and depressing and it takes you down rather than up so if you listen to positive stuff like i’ve got all kinds of stuff on audible like i’m sure you do.

markvictorhansen: And you listen to all that stuff and the stuff from Nightingale conant new stuff that brings out the best in you, and then you hang out with really positive minded people natural I was going to go.

markvictorhansen: I have it may just be who I am but all the podcasts that have accepted us and put myself for myself crypto on every one of them has been positive, everyone have been uplifted every like we’ve done three today, and they were just all of them, it were exalted spirits they’re not dull boring.

markvictorhansen: Because I can tell you that in the old days when jack and I did it we used to have to carry the radio shows like we would do.

markvictorhansen: Once we are doing media, sometimes we do five or six would call foreigners.

markvictorhansen: A day and those guys they never read the book they never saw the book they didn’t know what the book was, and you know so they’d asked you a question well how are you today i’d say the reason we wrote check chicken soup for the soul tell you how to have a good day each and every day.

David Horsager: I I I gotta jump here just because it just came in from my face was the practice leadership group out of New York, and this is biblical drew to it’s a guy to Harvard die, you probably know it, but he was just I was just listening to him this week, and he was talking about how.

David Horsager: We brought up a lot of biblical this time so Christians, he said, basically they’ve been known for these seeds, in the last decades they condemn or they critique or they.

David Horsager: You know just consume stuff but the only way to change things for the better is to create or cultivate, we have to be about it can’t just be about condemning we.

markvictorhansen: can be blurry eyed add a third see they got to curate.

David Horsager: There you go and you’ve got your contribute and charity, so we got to get to the lightning round I I just you’ve been such a massive gift and such a.

markvictorhansen: Love every second.

David Horsager: yeah well I got it let’s get some quick quick takeaways and lightning round one.

David Horsager: A favorite tip for everybody, or advice financial.

markvictorhansen: Well, the question is obviously earn more than you spend, but the other read my one minute millionaire book, because what I do is I say hey look i’m here to create a million millionaires and there’s a million ways to make a million and there’s one white perfect easy.

markvictorhansen: acceptable way to each of us, and today you’ve got to have a million for every reason and many millions of minimal if you ever want to retire and I don’t want anyone to retire on put on new tires and go out and do better direction.

David Horsager: Right perfect one best piece of advice for leadership.

markvictorhansen: I would ask everyone to consider going into the deepest secret place of the most high inside their consciousness and figure out what are they as the biggest visionary leader that they could be in.

markvictorhansen: Today we’ve talked about Elon musk but i’ve read 5000 biographies and autobiographies i’m i’ve been hired to write a big biography.

markvictorhansen: And i’ve never done it for and i’m really excited but this guy was a visionary that I can’t talk about yet because we got an nda but.

markvictorhansen: Everybody needs to study the visionaries and become a visionary everyone’s here to be a history maker a record breaker the Bible says you’re.

markvictorhansen: In the Asians you’re god’s greatest masterpiece if you’re god’s greatest masterpiece you’re supposed to do masterful things not minimal things and, yes, the church did some terrible things because.

markvictorhansen: anytime you got a full group you’re going to have some corrupt people some few percentage, but if you look at them, then you become like that, so, if you look at the best the brightest, why does the mother teresa’s she says i’m just a pencil in the hand of God, what a great line.

David Horsager: Absolutely what is of.

David Horsager: me i’m going to ask you this because you know my parents are in their 90s still continual learners.

David Horsager: still run.

David Horsager: They still run the farm definitely not retires but I love how they’re learning even to talk to their grandkids and now great grandchildren to technology and other things what’s a favorite tech or APP or gadget for you.

markvictorhansen: Well, first of all, art linkletter not when he was in 96 when we wrote the last book together and then he said look we’ve taught her kids how to read, they got to teach us how to use technology and I just thought that’s so cool art.

markvictorhansen: And he did kids into darkness things and people are funny and house party.

markvictorhansen: That my favorite I would say, I live too much on my cell phone just because I carry with and and when I I actually six to seven days a week aggressively.

markvictorhansen: Because I think it’s part of the fountain of youth that plus extraordinary nutrition so.

markvictorhansen: I am listening to extraordinary podcast by guys like Brian Scott net that just he has taken all the historical classics and put them together that, and all this stuff by Dr Tracy Jones.

markvictorhansen: Well i’m sure you know, is Charlie tremendous Jones his daughter, and is a great leadership profound military superstar you know come trainer power exxon’s.

David Horsager: What is it’s been that what is that well let’s go here you just said it what’s your what’s some exercise habit that you have.

markvictorhansen: I do well, first of all, we live at the top month on month we climb the mountains, a couple times a week and it’s just big tech, as I look out my window here my office.

markvictorhansen: is spectacularly beautiful I gotta tell you right now it’s 70 degrees Arizona, as in right now we’ve had so much rain it.

markvictorhansen: Our mountains or green our arrows pristine it just there’s very few people here Arizona is a basically empty states as big as Israel, as you probably know.

markvictorhansen: So yeah I do mountain climbing, but we also we bicycle and I were part of the villages, so I do every kind of calisthenics and muscle training because.

markvictorhansen: You age at the level that you don’t take care of your body and Peter guber is at and looks 40.

markvictorhansen: You know the first time I went to his $62 million third house.

markvictorhansen: We arrived and it’s 930 on a Saturday night, and it goes to suit up and I thought oh my gosh am I supposed to have a tuxedo this is, I got aloha shirt and he said no, no, get on your exercise clothes.

markvictorhansen: And I said, what do you tell me, he said, Peter want you in a gym and in 10 minutes and I said okay I got gym clothes with it’s easy.

markvictorhansen: And, and he exercised twice a day and that’s why you look so good, and you know he’s really vigorous I mean.

markvictorhansen: we’ve run together played rugby together slam together we traveled around the world together just you know the guys in superb shape and you know he’s at and most people at at a gun I need my cane, you know that old think.

markvictorhansen: where’s my.


David Horsager: I think this is where my dad could could keep up dead mom i’m.

David Horsager: so proud of them it’s like 40 below zero up there, right now, and they’re like yeah I, I have to do indoor exercise when it gets the 10 below so they um.

David Horsager: Anyway, then they just yeah so favorite favorite book or resource, right now, other than ask bridge the bridge from your dreams to your destiny some other book or resource it’s inspiring to you right now.

markvictorhansen: Right now, I just got the dollars want you it’s an old classic book costs $4 on Amazon is inspired me to write the whole new iteration i’m writing right now, you money wants you in medical title.

David Horsager: it’s cool.

markvictorhansen: It could be it’s going to be a big book, I was reading what I wrote last night, a couple hours to my wife and she said.

markvictorhansen: wow that was totally inspired I said I just saw that guy’s title and I thought we had to redo it because.

markvictorhansen: You know how to have self mastery of opulence is a subtitle because everyone look God only knows abundance he built the universe 15.7 billion years ago if that’s the true number i’m not a geologist or a.

markvictorhansen: Cosmetic dentist or cosmologist but you know i’ll buy that term and built the earth 5 billion years ago if all that stuff got created and it’s perfect, then you and I have got some perfection, and we can spirit can figure out how to solve any problem that exists, I really believe.

David Horsager: what’s left for mark Victor Hansen what’s it what’s one hope for the future bucket list or just to hope.

markvictorhansen: i’ve got 10 mega goals and and everything for like how’s on how do humanity expeditiously an admin considerably before i’m 127 and.

markvictorhansen: Take all trash and turn it into cash and we i’m part of a company called QC is Manfred the chairman call me today but we’ve got.

markvictorhansen: They spend a million dollars in Michigan and figured out a QC I how to.

markvictorhansen: Turn glass back to glass metal to metal, plastic plastic water water and we can take the 10,000 landfills and turn it back into a resource, because we can’t keep polluting the earth that I got to the privilege opening the pyramids down in Guatemala.

markvictorhansen: With the head of anthropology and archaeology at Harvard if i’d write something for National Geographic which I thought.

markvictorhansen: I let me get your degree I didn’t ever think I get right for it, you know it just it tickled me and for two weeks we sweat her butt off 220 degrees.

markvictorhansen: But we’re talking about a culture that had 10 million people to build these great pyramids as great as is Egypt and we are 200 feet on the ground, a.

markvictorhansen: long story, but the point is is that they killed themselves because they didn’t think through their own pollution pollution killed, I mean doctor said, turn out say every morning we’d argue about what.

markvictorhansen: You know, questioning each other what kill these people wasn’t a temperature and virgin was a an asteroid hit the earth what the hell that killed that many people that long ago they had six lane I way these guys.

markvictorhansen: And we don’t have any we can’t read cache and this guy would stand on top of a pyramid there was one every 30 miles, if you look at it.

markvictorhansen: Look at this stuff on everyone knows, to call or if you study anything about pyramids it’s bigger than any of this.

markvictorhansen: Egypt pyramid but he had written and concrete something but but bill can’t indicators eternal said look mark, can you think that is it.

markvictorhansen: Now i’m pretty good at linguistics but I know, English and I know, German and I know, Danish and Hindi or two, but I know you got me here I don’t have a clue and nobody knows what the hell, the language was because they all died all the ones.

markvictorhansen: You know i’m saying I said to bill, and what we wrote, as my supposition is that they didn’t know about germs and germs and all that so they polluted themselves just innocently but you know you know you put 10 million people together he’s gonna have a lot of garbage.

David Horsager: So there’s one of your 10 mega goals well there’s, this is a, this is a good inspiration have mega goals to change the world.

David Horsager: It has been a huge honor I have one more question for you, even though i’d love to talk.

David Horsager: All evening.

David Horsager: I go well yeah i’m gonna keep I could keep going but.

David Horsager: I i’m so so grateful for your time our audience the trusted leaders are grateful for your time today and.

David Horsager: Before I get there, though, where can we find out more, we have all the links to you on the chat at trusted leader show.com but where would you especially like us to find out more about mark.

markvictorhansen: With your permission, so number one is I want everyone to get a copy of as.

markvictorhansen: A meeting up to copies and given to a friend and go over it, please.

markvictorhansen: Ask the bridge from your dreams your destiny at Amazon for sure, and any bookstore that’s open that have them we’d love to have that and then number two and then number two is it.

markvictorhansen: I want everyone that leader to write a book, because then they find out who they are, and i’ve just finished a book called you have a book and you and you can get it really inexpensive if you go to Hansen.

markvictorhansen: institute COM Hansen institute COM and we are helping everybody now from soup to NUTS everything up with the title i’ll help you with the book will help you speed write it in 90 days.

markvictorhansen: Because we need leaders that lead I.

markvictorhansen: beat on you throughout this thing David I hope not too hard, saying we need more visionary leaders I don’t think you disagree, if you do i’d be surprised running a show like this.

markvictorhansen: But what if everybody really started delete them so started to discipline themselves started to grow started to learn started to share because.

markvictorhansen: Everybody is an expert at something and everybody can write something to somebody that that nobody else can share because they don’t know it.

markvictorhansen: And we need to have that elevated consciousness, because everything comes out of ideas and consciousness and we’re at the first time in history.

markvictorhansen: Where we can share a conscious thanks to back to our friend Elon musk he’s putting up right now 40,000 satellite in building a new Internet that’s going to be on hackable unbreakable military group cyber group and you got to say that’s like way cool and very gutsy and very expensive.

David Horsager: Absolutely, you know I knew, you were writing that new book i’m glad you put it in there we’ll put that in the show notes absolutely.

David Horsager: But I think there’s several things that happen on your second book there that the when you write a book you do learn about yourself, you have a book in you right.

David Horsager: You learn about yourself, which helps you that back to Socrates, you know yourself to if you’re going to lead yourself, you know yourself and then you can share that vision with others, so.

David Horsager: last question, unless you want to say anything else to us today, this.


markvictorhansen: Go ahead.

David Horsager: Give your all ears.

David Horsager: last question is hey it’s a trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why let’s move beyond alon you’ve got a lot of them, but but who’s a leader you trust, right now, and why.

markvictorhansen: By the way, i’ve got so many that I that I like love trust respect and admire in my business there’s a guy who’s changing the book business invisibly to you and most people Joseph todo es to he makes a fortune, but he’s created funnels and he’s created how to make sure.

David Horsager: I do know him, by the way.

markvictorhansen: Okay well.

markvictorhansen: He will write them a note.

markvictorhansen: When we’re done and asked him to interview you, but he doesn’t do many but he’s a genius and he’s.

markvictorhansen: i’m thankful to say he’s a great close friends, I mean the people like back to what you said about collaboration of people that i’m working with blow my mind, because or I listened to, but I go yeah yeah yeah.

markvictorhansen: i’m good i’m so thankful we’re at a time when, because of transportation travels zoom Internet we weren’t able able to get with people literally around the world and it just and they’re all they’re wonderful.

David Horsager: Well, that that was a fun and I know there are so many you could have named but i’m going to text Joe right after this and and let you know, let him know that he is.

David Horsager: we’re you know we’ve hired him we he was a friend before that we were in a mastermind group before that and.

markvictorhansen: I had no idea.

David Horsager: You know, and I know that that’s fantastic so.

David Horsager: check out the show notes at trusted leader show calm you’ll find everything about mark Victor Hansen, please say hi to crystal Dwyer Hansen, and just a huge thanks to her and her contribution to the world and through these books and everything you’re doing.

David Horsager: As a partnership so we just are grateful and just a huge huge huge, thank you, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 26: Josh Linkner on How Everyday People Can Become Everyday Innovators

In this episode, David sits down with Josh Linkner, New York Times Bestselling Author, Global Innovation and Creativity Expert, Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners, and Chairman and Co-Founder of Platypus Labs, to discuss how everyday people can become everyday innovators.

Get David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Josh’s Bio:
Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s a New York Times Bestselling author and a globally recognized expert on innovation and creativity. He’s the founding partner of Detroit Venture Partners and has been involved in the launch of over 100 startups. Today, Josh serves as Chairman and co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is a recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession for greasy pizza.

Josh’s Links:
“Big Little Breakthroughs” (use code TRUSTED for access to the Toolkit with FREE resources): https://www.biglittlebreakthroughs.com/
Website: https://joshlinkner.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshlinkner/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCClYbC0H2Q-bXPaFCo1188A
Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshlinkner
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joshlinkner/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlinkner/

Key Quotes:
1. “Creativity often is a mash-up of things.”
2. “When people get super focused in a particular discipline, they actually become less creative.”
3. “We can be innovative not just on the big stuff, but on the small everyday stuff.”
4. “Think small.”
5. “All human beings have enormous reservoirs of dormant creative capacity.”
6. “There absolutely is a process and methodology by which all of us can become more creative.”
7. “Everyday innovators don’t wait.”
8. “The only thing that supersedes accountability is trust.”
9. “You really show your character when things are tough, not when they’re good.”
10. “Fear is the biggest blocker.”
11. “Fear and creativity cannot coexist.”
12. “If you want to change the outputs they say you got to change the inputs.”
13. “Connect with something that really inspires you creatively.”
14. “We are all creative.”
15. “Chase two rabbits and both will escape.” Chinese Proverb
16. “Failure is part of the innovation process.”
17. “You can’t be sheepish when you go back after it.”
18. “If you’re taking your failures with you to the next time at bat, you’re almost ensuring the next failure.”
19. “Somebody has to be the best, it might as well be you.” Josh’s Grandma
20. “Success is a temporary state in the context of many external factors.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Ballot Bin: https://ballotbin.co.uk/
Tally Tracking App: https://growthbundle.com/
“Think Again” by Adam Grant: https://amzn.to/3dwKPvp
Audible: https://www.audible.com/
“Big Little Breakthroughs” by Josh Linkner (use code TRUSTED for access to the Toolkit with FREE resources): https://www.biglittlebreakthroughs.com/
Detroit Labs: https://www.detroitlabs.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse auger i’ve got a special guest today we’ve been in a kind of a mastermind unique group together.

David Horsager: He is a five time five exits as an entrepreneur value over $200 million and exits he’s The co founder of planets post labs he’s a venture capital.

David Horsager: Investor he’s a professional level jazz guitarist and he’s up twice named Ernst and Young entrepreneur of the year, he is that creative troublemaker please welcome josh linkner thanks for being here josh.

Josh Linkner: David truly a pleasure to be with you, thank you well.

David Horsager: he’s a leader, I trust, ease are really just he thinks differently, and you know josh that’s that’s one of the things I think your.

David Horsager: way as we’ve talked about innovation and creativity and you’ve had your hand in so many things, many people say focus focus focus and you’re kind of this Richard Branson in a way right So how do you, you certainly show the creativity, but how does that mix with focus.

Josh Linkner: Well, you know it’s interesting creativity, often is a mash up of things, in fact, the name of my you know consulting business planet labs a platypus the animal it’s got like the bill of one animal and the tail of another animal it’s kind of weird mash up.

Josh Linkner: and actually creativity is often like that, so when people get super focused in a particular discipline, they actually become less creative.

Josh Linkner: And it’s really the people who can borrow from lots of different parts of life and and put it in the blender and shake it up in a different way, that that ultimately yield even better creative results so for me it’s been a blessing, not a purse.

David Horsager: What do you, what do you do in a platypus these days.

Josh Linkner: So we help organizations around the world, people like Cardinal health and Honda and, of course, smaller groups as well.

Josh Linkner: build a culture of innovation, we help them tackle tough challenges and sees new opportunities by giving them the tools.

Josh Linkner: to innovate forward so we help sort of build this this skill set this resource of creative Problem Solving and inventive thinking to help them grow and help them thrive.

David Horsager: inventive thing i’m going to get down to personal in a little bit to you because I know we both are on the road, a lot you’ve I can remember the day at least one of the days you, you know your.

David Horsager: flights and helicopters and everything else to make for big events in one day but let’s stay back there what what what is innovative thinking, what does that mean okay.

David Horsager: I want to be more innovative everybody listening wants to be more innovative, we want to also you know if we didn’t see the pandemic company pandemic coming we sure wanted to do a pivot in the right way at the right time, how do we think that way, how do we become more innovative.

Josh Linkner: Well, first we got to dispel a couple of myths, so one method, I hear all the time is innovation only counts if it’s a billion dollar idea or if it changes the world.

Josh Linkner: And that’s nonsense, we can be innovative, not just on the big stuff but on the small everyday stuff.

Josh Linkner: And in fact when you’re innovative on a daily basis, you can do a little teeny micro innovations.

Josh Linkner: it directs the process you build critical skills, because you get better at it, it becomes part of you of who you are and all those little events is add up to great stuff so I encourage people often to think small first of all.

Josh Linkner: Second, of all it’s the research is crystal clear that all human beings have enormous reservoirs of dorman creative capacity.

Josh Linkner: Now we can be creative in different ways, like I play jazz guitar pretty well I can’t draw a stick figure if I tried.

Josh Linkner: So just because someone listening doesn’t doesn’t do creativity in the classical sense of like.

Josh Linkner: You know, oil on canvas doesn’t mean you can’t be creative as a salesperson or a finance person or a customer service person or a mom or a Community leader and so when we think about.

Josh Linkner: Everyday people becoming everyday innovators that’s when I laid up that’s what i’m all about it doesn’t have to be the next ilan musk you and me, and our kids and our spouses and everyone on our team, we can all be innovative and that’s that’s to me the real beauty of it.

David Horsager: So how do you encourage your team like we want our team to be more innovative, we certainly created in one of our business units a massive pivot this year and I was so proud of them, and it was part of you know.

David Horsager: Partly brought on by the pandemic, but how do we create that howdy the micro like it give us an example, maybe run us through what would be a micro innovation today.

Josh Linkner: yeah so i’ll give you an example, again I call these big little breakthroughs, which is the title of my next book big little breakthrough is how small everyday innovations drive oversized results.

Josh Linkner: And let’s take a trip together let’s hop over to London.

Josh Linkner: So imagine you’re walking through the streets of London you’re marveling at the architecture and there’s bustling crowds, and all this history, and then you look down and what do you see you see cigarette butts all over the ground.

Josh Linkner: It turns out, the cigarette butts are the biggest little problem in Central London and, in fact, many, many cities around the world.

Josh Linkner: And all the things they’ve tried to do to stop this problem really felt like finding people are shaming them into compliance and you might think it’s just unsightly but it’s harmful for.

Josh Linkner: The environment and you know small kids or animals can adjust them and it’s pollutants, all these bad things so here’s an example of a big little break do.

Josh Linkner: there’s a guy that I interviewed for the book named trolling rustic and trolling is an average everyday dude he’s just like he’s not Elon musk.

Josh Linkner: He went to college and barely got through he took an ordinary job he’s trying to pay the bills, just like all of us.

Josh Linkner: But but true and had this this kind of passion for the environment, so he saw this little problem, and he said, decided to solve it with a big little breakthrough.

Josh Linkner: He invented something called the ballot Ben, which is a bright yellow metal container mounted at eyesight and the front of it is glass and if there’s a.

Josh Linkner: divider down the middle at the top it’s a two part question, such as which do you prefer hamburgers or pizza and there’s a little receptacle or smokers can vote with their butts.

Josh Linkner: So you put your cigarette butts in whichever slot like you, which food you like better, and you can see instant tally based on how many butts of stacked up underneath it.

Josh Linkner: And of course you can customize this to any two part question, it could be, which is your favorite sport or or you know do prefer blondes brunettes whatever two questions you want to ask here’s the thing.

Josh Linkner: When these ballot bands have been installed they reduced cigarette litter by 80% and they’re now in 27 countries.

Josh Linkner: And the thing I love about this story is like it didn’t take six PhDs and a billion dollars of capital and material engineering degrees and resources and equipment.

Josh Linkner: This is an average person like you and I could have easily thought of that idea and here’s somebody who is not famous he’s a normal person that’s using creativity to make a difference in the world.

Josh Linkner: And I hear stories like that it’s so much more inspiring to me than watching ilan musk or or Jeff bezos make an extra billion dollars, because that feels inaccessible, whereas trolling is totally within our grasp.

David Horsager: So I love that, is there a process, and once again the book is called big little breakthroughs how small every day innovations drive oversized results.

David Horsager: We will link exactly where you can get it, along with all the information about josh linkner and his company’s at the show notes trusted leader show.com but.

David Horsager: Is there a process to to just think a little more creatively, a process to think a little more innovatively to kind of you know, I think, part of it almost is like believing I can but what is there any process, you could give us.

Josh Linkner: There is an effect really that’s the whole source of my body of work over the years and, of course, this book.

Josh Linkner: I tried to demystify it, you know we think of innovation is like wizardry like you have to be imbued by the gods with some magical powers it’s actually much more like a magic trick.

Josh Linkner: When you see even the best magicians they don’t actually possess magical powers they’ve learned a skill and and the truth is that all of us can learn to develop that skill.

Josh Linkner: And so the book goes into we sort of dissect like How does an idea happen, what are the individual components, what happens when you put it under the microscope, what does the research say.

Josh Linkner: And then I really want people through the eight core mindsets of everyday innovators, which are sort of easy to digest easy to get get your arms around.

Josh Linkner: mindsets that people can put into action and, furthermore, we go into into depth on tactics, you know, most of us use brainstorming is that is the preferred tactic.

Josh Linkner: By the way, brainstorming was invented in 1958 i’m guessing we need an upgrade like a lot of things have changed since 1968.

Josh Linkner: So I actually have this whole thing called idea jamming I was holding idea toolkit where we provide much more fun modern exercises for like idea extraction.

Josh Linkner: Which but but long story short, there absolutely is a process and methodology, by which all of us, and I mean all of us can become more creative.

David Horsager: So you know the give us this we got to have a little secret sauce here we can’t go through all eight today but.

David Horsager: You know everybody’s going to hear it and it’ll be called as my friend, Jeremy says the sauce because we’re going to tell people, but you know the the full secret sauce is in the book.

David Horsager: But what is maybe one or two mindsets first and then maybe one tactic like Oh, I can see how this would be helpful, I can see some so, can you give us a couple mindset shifts first.

Josh Linkner: yeah absolutely again I it nothing secret here i’m happy to share the secret sauce because I actually really feel like i’m on a mission to help people become more creative and I am happy to share.

Josh Linkner: So a couple of the mindsets and these are studied through over 1000 hours of research and interviews with CEOs and celebrity entrepreneurs and we dove into you know how does, how does Lin Manuel Miranda and Lady gaga and banksy do their art so.

Josh Linkner: As well well founded, in substance, but a couple of mindsets i’ll share some of them are more intuitive there’s one called start before you’re ready.

Josh Linkner: Which is essentially the notion that everyday innovators don’t wait they don’t wait for permission they don’t wait for direction that away for a perfect game plan they get going, and then they course correct and adapt along the way.

Josh Linkner: But there’s some actually more more strange funny ones, one is called don’t forget the dinner mint.

Josh Linkner: Which is the notion that before you ship a piece of work product, it could be an email, it could be a keynote speech, it could be a financial report.

Josh Linkner: What could you do to plus it up like what’s an extra teeny little extra dose of surprise and delight of creative surprise and delight.

Josh Linkner: That makes your work transcendent and that the return on investment is gigantic that’s a high leverage activity, because a 5% extra dose of creativity could yield 100% or more results.

Josh Linkner: Another fun one real quick in terms of mindsets is I call it use every drop of toothpaste use every drop of toothpaste.

Josh Linkner: And the notion here is around being scrappy and sort of you doing more with less figuring out how to be resourceful and using ingenuity, rather than relying on external resources.

Josh Linkner: You know, when I talked to people about being innovative most people say i’d love to I want to, but I don’t have fill in the blank I don’t have enough money I don’t have enough time I don’t have enough raw materials that are enough degrees.

Josh Linkner: etc, and so what this does actually turn that on its head and say Okay, what can we do when we are resource constrained.

Josh Linkner: And by the way, I thought about this many times, think about this, if the amount of external resources, you had equaled your level of creativity.

Josh Linkner: The Federal Government would be the most creative organization on the planet and startups would be the least, and of course we know the exact opposite is true, so those are a couple of mindsets there’s eight of them, but those those are a couple ones to get you started it.

David Horsager: I love it so So if I take one of those is there a tactic like being said, we can start to use tomorrow, like is there a tactic like let’s start at that first first phase, even.

David Horsager: Or maybe the brainstorming tactic i’m thinking about thinking through a problem, how can I think about this problem or creatively.

Josh Linkner: yeah so that the techniques that you use think of them as tools and let’s say you were you had an oil in your backyard and you got you know the.

Josh Linkner: Little plastic sabo from your kids from the beach like that’s going to take you an awful long time to get oil and you’re not going to pull the extract it.

Josh Linkner: Obviously, if you had commercial grade equipment different story so brainstorming is the equivalent of that that plastic shovel it’s just not that good so let’s Let me share some tools that are much better.

Josh Linkner: here’s one for you it’s fun it’s called the Judo flip the Judo flip, and so the Judo flip is basically as follows, you take a look at what whether you’re facing a problem or an opportunity write down.

Josh Linkner: What are the things you’ve always done before what is conventional wisdom dictate what do most people do.

Josh Linkner: then draw a line down the page and just ask next to each entry what’s the polar opposite What would it look like, if you Judo flipped it.

Josh Linkner: And that oppositional thinking just forcing yourself to consider the polar opposite of what most people do can be very, very liberating just a super quick story that I just read like two days ago.

Josh Linkner: turns out there’s 65,000 Chinese restaurants in North America.

Josh Linkner: So how in the world if you own one do you stand out.

Josh Linkner: Well, most people what they do, the average average thing is, people are these a lot of puffery, this is the best Chinese chicken in the universe it’s the world’s best the New York city’s best egg roll whatever.

Josh Linkner: And it’s a bunch of puffery and we all have strong bs detectors to your point of trusted leader and we shut all that down so in this particular restaurant in Montreal.

Josh Linkner: Next to every entry on the menu there’s a printed something called owners comments, and so we did the opposite of Judo flip it so one of those comments is.

Josh Linkner: I don’t really like this dish I think you prefer the other one.

Josh Linkner: and other ones like this one’s a little little too much salt I keep trying to get him to use less of it another one is don’t try taking this thing home it gets really mushy.

Josh Linkner: Another one is you might think this is authentic but, honestly it’s not authentic at all in this particular dish and so he gives me his brutally honest completely transparent commentary on his own food.

Josh Linkner: And, first of all it’s hysterically funny it separates it from the competitive set here we are talking about this one out of 65,000 Chinese restaurants, not because he did what everybody else does it’s because he Judo flipped it.

David Horsager: I love it.

Josh Linkner: So just a couple of quick tactics, because I want to make sure people aren’t for battle.

Josh Linkner: Another really fun one so Okay, we get together to brainstorm and what do we do we share our our safe ideas, not our crazy wild ones and largely because of fear fear is the single most.

Josh Linkner: poisonous force that holds our creative thinking back and and by far that’s a bigger Blocker than natural talent so actually to really fast wants to break through that number one I call it roll storming.

Josh Linkner: role storming so role storming is brainstorming in character you’re taking on an actual real world brainstorm challenge but doing it as if you are somebody else.

Josh Linkner: So, David instead of you being David in the room, and now you’re saying well i’m going to be judged by my ideas or what if I say something that looks foolish.

Josh Linkner: you’re playing the role of Steve Jobs or Hemingway or darth vader and so you can pick any character, you want real fictitious it could be a sports hero or a movie star whatever you want.

Josh Linkner: And you literally pretend that you are that character, because when you’re that person you’re no longer responsible for the idea it’s not a reflection on you as a human being.

Josh Linkner: So that’s a really fun one yields amazing results i’ll just share real quick it’s called the bad idea brainstorm.

Josh Linkner: So we get together for brainstorm presumably we want to have good ideas, but we generally anchor them in the past and we end up having these kind of puny incremental ideas.

Josh Linkner: here’s the way works two step process step one everybody in the room, set a timer like eight minutes, whatever and.

Josh Linkner: brainstorm bad ideas that good ones what’s a terrible way to solve it what’s the worst possible thing you can think of what’s unethical and immoral and illegal and and you know too expensive, or whatever, so you come up with just terrible ideas.

Josh Linkner: it’s hysterically funny the whole team is energized everyone’s laughing and you fill the Boards with all these awful ideas.

Josh Linkner: Now importantly step two step two is where you then take a minute and look at all the bad ideas and say wait a minute.

Josh Linkner: Is there a little gem in there is that a little something is there a pattern a nugget that I could flip.

Josh Linkner: To take it from a bad idea to a good one, so the idea here is you take your creativity way to the edges and then yes you’re ratcheting back to reality, later on, but it’s much more effective than fighting the gravitational force of going bottoms up.

David Horsager: Fantastic I love, I am enticed trusted leaders are enticed I mean this is this is really, really, really, really great usable stuff what I love about josh is.

David Horsager: grounded in research, like we love out of the Institute, but also usable tomorrow morning, and so I love it.

David Horsager: So you know josh you’ve sold businesses combined value over a couple hundred million dollars what you know Britain New York Times bestsellers before you you’re doing all these things you’ve been a part of 100 startups or.

David Horsager: Whether that’s intimately or you know vc or certainly advising, and so we tell what’s it take to have a successful startup today.

Josh Linkner: Well it’s a lot of it is opposite what you think you know, first of all, we think that it’s about an entrepreneur that fills the room that’s charismatic like Steve Jobs actually the best entrepreneurs are much more thoughtful often not that.

Josh Linkner: larger than life they’re humble they give credit to others it’s not about themselves it’s about the success of the team in the business.

Josh Linkner: They lift other people up rather than push other people down, so I think one thing, it takes as an open minded coachable.

Josh Linkner: You know humble leader who has empathy and compassion and again, these are skills that you don’t often associate with business success, but I truly believe that they drive drive results.

Josh Linkner: I think another thing is that a real commitment to your to the customer i’ve heard so many companies talk about the financial model and how much money they’re going to make and then you’re like well how are you helping a customer like what.

Josh Linkner: And I think not losing sight of that you know you’re there to serve any businesses there but it’s a service or product to deliver value to real paying customers.

Josh Linkner: And, and not just in a way that they’re an annoyance that will just try to catch their checketts that you’re really there you know your hearts got to be into providing real value to them.

Josh Linkner: And so, when you push the creativity on providing real value to customers I think that’s something that sounds so obvious but is often missed.

David Horsager: think that was the Einstein quote we’ve heard it before, but you know don’t work so much at being a success work at giving value right and.

David Horsager: A huge key, in fact, one of the things we saw this year, especially last year, the pandemic and everything is.

David Horsager: We noticed empathy is more important than ever before and leaders and, in fact, our our annual study phone 90% 92%.

David Horsager: of people would trust their leader, more if they were more transparent about their mistakes people stop at transparency because.

David Horsager: Oh transmit no it’s not transparency it’s transparent about their mistakes willing to admit when they did it wrong and willing to lift others up when the team succeeded and and defer the good right.

Josh Linkner: yeah can I actually did, can I tell you a quick story about that it’s so it’s it’s a very personal one for me and it’s about a screw up that I did I didn’t write about in the book or anything I just thought.

Josh Linkner: was thinking about you today, and your incredible body of work around trust, so I was building my company, it was called enterprise, we were sort of like half ad agency and have software company.

Josh Linkner: And in one year, I sent a bonus program up there was terribly flawed like it was awful.

Josh Linkner: Because it was binary if we hit the target, I think it was like $40 million in revenue at the time, everybody got a sweet bonus if we missed it by one penny everybody about got nothing.

Josh Linkner: So, again to conceive totally my fault, I was a CEO.

Josh Linkner: But it did work to like drive performance, so we all anchored around that goal every we had charts and graphs and scoreboards and we’re done in heart so on December 31 David I get a call from my see my chief.

Josh Linkner: Sales officer, so he says josh we did we hit the 40 were like at $40,200,000.

Josh Linkner: And I gotta tell you like, I was deeply moved, not because I was greedy I didn’t care about the money honestly I just wasn’t.

Josh Linkner: proud of my team we accomplished something together, and so I immediately fired off a note to everybody congratulations you guys did it everyone’s getting their bonus.

Josh Linkner: So the bonus, according to the plan was going to be paid like 45 days after the end of the year, so we could you know get the counting straight and all that.

Josh Linkner: So about a week before the bonuses to be paid my CFO comes a knockin he says josh you know that $40 million i’m like yeah wasn’t a great he said yeah we got a problem.

Josh Linkner: He said turns out, we double counted one deal and we didn’t calculate for a particular cancellation, so instead of just making it we actually just missed it.

Josh Linkner: Now, keep in mind, I already told my team like weeks before that they were getting this bonus and and they like put deposits on new houses and sent you know.

Josh Linkner: signed up their kids for camp, or whatever, so I go to my board of directors and I said guys like here’s the situation and their first response was sweet we don’t have to pay a bonus this year.

Josh Linkner: And and, by the way this is over a million dollars of cash.

Josh Linkner: collectively and and we were successful, but we didn’t have like you know, a job we weren’t Amazon like we’d have lots and lots of extra money, this is meaningful amount of money.

Josh Linkner: And so I so they said and rightfully so, by the way they not putting blame at them, they were a fiduciary board and they said look.

Josh Linkner: You don’t get a super bowl trophy for almost making it into the end zone, and we have to celebrate accountability and like we didn’t hit the result you don’t get the championship.

Josh Linkner: And I said I hear you and I agree with that I said, however, to me, the only thing that supersedes accountability is trust.

Josh Linkner: I told all those people that they are getting their bonus, so we had an ethical debate for a while, then I finally said look put aside what’s right or wrong, because if you look yourself in the mirror, you know what’s right.

Josh Linkner: But let’s just look at the economics here that million dollars, I argued was gone, whether you like it or not.

Josh Linkner: If we don’t pay the bonus it’s going to come out in the form of bad morale employee turnover someone to walk off with a laptop like it’s gone.

Josh Linkner: Or we can look at it as an investment in who we are, you know you really show your character when things are tough not when they’re good and now is the time it’s tough.

Josh Linkner: So for the next week, David it was like the Cuban missile crisis, I was taking heavy artillery fire for my board of directors, but here’s what ended up happening.

Josh Linkner: I gather my whole team together at the time, I think, was about 500 people or so.

Josh Linkner: I explained in absolute detail here’s the email I got here’s the numbers here’s the cancellation here’s the date notes from the meeting with my CFO.

Josh Linkner: We did not make the bonus everybody is legally entitled to zero, and by the way, totally my fault I own it I know buck buck stops with me and I paste it has any blame.

Josh Linkner: I said that are positive side, however, the only thing, in my mind that’s more important than accountability is, you have to know that I have your back and that we have each other’s back so therefore we are paying every penny of that bonus on time.

Josh Linkner: The motion of that room that day like there were tears streaming down people’s faces I was getting bear hugs from grown men.

Josh Linkner: And, and I did it because it was the right thing, but, by the way, best million dollar investment I ever made because.

Josh Linkner: years later, people were like if we had a tough problem with a client people would work all night on it and people would pour their heart and soul, we had almost no voluntary turnover.

Josh Linkner: On job interviews candidates would come in and say I heard what you did, I want to work there, I never told the story to anybody.

Josh Linkner: But my only point is that, when we think about trust it was I understand you know your body of work to me it’s not only the right thing and, by the way, is the right thing.

Josh Linkner: But Besides that, in addition to that it’s also good for business and I again I just really admire the work you’re doing and I just wanted to share that story to a degree, I guess that might be using creativity, but, but you know that that’s what happened.

David Horsager: Undeniably, well, we are you at all the time, we believe, a lack of trust of the biggest expense in an organization or an individual even a global government on a corruption issue or whatever so.

David Horsager: That affirms that you know i’m not this is your interview, but you did make me think about something I don’t share very often and and this whole transparency kind of.

David Horsager: humility thing and it’s not a shout out to me, but I just I remember this, my daughter were out for a walk she’s maybe 13 years old, my oldest she was the oldest at the time she’s now 18 but she said.

David Horsager: we’re just talking and she said, you know this was a time when I was really busy in her years I was flying all over the world.

David Horsager: And that we were maybe at the height of our as far as just a speaking business now we’re you know doing all these other things too, but, but basically.

David Horsager: And she said dad you wouldn’t understand I don’t know she was talking about boys or academics, or what you’re perfect and right, then my heart sunk because I knew it’s great to be their hero at three years old.

David Horsager: But at 13.

David Horsager: We got an issue, and she hadn’t seen she saw me fly out she saw me do this, she saw me, you know get picked up by a Sedan or whatever, and I am.

David Horsager: She hadn’t seen when I lost all of our money you know buying a business that we lost everything on in two weeks before she was born she didn’t see me do this do that whatever all the things my wife and everybody else knows.

David Horsager: Right and she sent scenes on this and and I I made an intention on our walks and I just started sharing some place I blew it now, by the way, she’s 18 she’s seen plenty of things, but I mean.

David Horsager: At that time, see you you’re coming out of that.

David Horsager: When you’re perfect dad thing to you know your and and she.

David Horsager: I just searching I blew it here I missed it there, I was imperfect I didn’t I wish I would have treated my team better here, I will showed it on that during.

David Horsager: And what happened to our relationship, it just changed forever.

David Horsager: And now she shares things with me and now you know I think there’s this whole thing on like that bad news, you shared, of course, a big part of that story is you follow through above and beyond, but there is something people say.

David Horsager: You know, be transparent and they want to connect and we don’t connect on greatness.

David Horsager: That you are an all state football player, we didn’t even connect on that you sold companies for $200 million or this or that we connect on the mistakes.

David Horsager: I can relate to that Oh, I did that and that that’s what I am bring that back to your startup that one of the first thing you said on startups as we really.

David Horsager: The best leaders are often humble thoughtful leaders, and I can say the same thing about the the the CEOs that I work with her know you know.

David Horsager: So anyway.

Josh Linkner: Just a side so you’re so spot on and not only is that again, you know deeply connecting on a human level, it also back to my my love of creativity that drives creativity.

Josh Linkner: As mentioned, you know fear is the biggest Blocker and so, if a CEO says, I want your creative ideas.

Josh Linkner: And then, but, but the person doesn’t feel safe sharing them because maybe they’re going to get sent to corporate time out like you have no creativity, fear and creativity cannot coexist, and so the best leaders.

Josh Linkner: it’s not they don’t think of that that their organizations creative.

Josh Linkner: Atomic particles are just themselves it’s everybody everybody’s an innovator, and to do that, they have to create a safe culture, just a quick example back to your point about screwing stuff up.

Josh Linkner: The one company that I work with issues every team Member to corporate get out of jail free cards each year.

Josh Linkner: here’s what they say they say listen creativity is everybody’s job and and to have good ideas we’re going to have to have some bad ones are gonna have to have some some screw ups, so I want you to go out and take responsible risks that’s part of your job.

Josh Linkner: And when you screw something up cuz you will hand is a card you’re off the hook no questions asked and, on the annual team.

Josh Linkner: Performance reviews a leader will be disappointed with the team Member if they haven’t used both of them, so in this case, they sort of built a system around responsible risk taking, and that it’s okay to scrape your knees, from time to time.

David Horsager: I love it reminds me of way back when I was just starting to do some research and, if you remember MCI the mobile phone company, the new.

David Horsager: The new President made a $600 million mistake and they asked the.

David Horsager: The chairman of the board, I said, are you gonna I mean, are you know fire him look what he just did I mean was a big blow it right and they said no way we just paid too much on his education it’s kind of that okay we’re gonna make this safe to try and.

David Horsager: Whatever so so you know there’s more to you and we could talk business all day we don’t have a lot of time left, and we got leaders, you know we talked about high trust leaders and.

David Horsager: And you’ve been around many you are one What about you personally what what we you know we talked a lot about how to be.

David Horsager: To really lead others you got to be able to lead yourself how are you leading yourself these days are trying to at home, personally, we both have kids we both tried to be healthy physically spiritually emotionally what what’s maybe you got one or two routines you’d share.

Josh Linkner: Sure, well, the first thing you know back to the being you know, open and transparent is it’s not easy to do that, you know, like there are days you just want to.

Josh Linkner: don’t feel like working out and you want to eat greasy pizza like you know I mean so let’s let’s go back to you, your daughter’s comment about you being perfect.

Josh Linkner: let’s not hold ourselves to some level of perfection, and then, when we fall short inevitably were angry or disappointed or shamed.

Josh Linkner: Nor should we hold other people that way, so I think the best thing we can do is just recognize, first of all that we’re all we’re all human beings.

Josh Linkner: That being said, I try to I have an accountability partner I switch it every year.

Josh Linkner: People in my group, so we keep a little mobile APP what we called tally it’s free if I want to download it.

Josh Linkner: And we set up our key metrics that we’re going to track each week and then every week, we take a screen grab and.

Josh Linkner: and share it with each other, so we hold each other accountable, a couple of minor you know healthy eating I tried to do four to seven days a week.

Josh Linkner: I try to do, four days of exercise a week I do 100 and 210 minutes of learning every week so it’s really critically important to me to, if you want to change the outputs they say you got to change the input so i’m always learning reading, etc.

Josh Linkner: I do a morning ritual every week every day to to get myself sort of in the creative groove so i’m all about sort of those daily rhythms and habits and obviously I talk a lot about how to do that creatively in the book.

Josh Linkner: But I think also holding yourself and having an accountability partner is very, very helpful.

David Horsager: Accountability it’s so fun to hear you say that I don’t hear that all the time and we you know I talked about in my new book trusted LEADER I talked about the accountability group that changed me and i’ve been with them these four guys for 28 years and i’m a better.

Josh Linkner: husband, a better parent.

David Horsager: A better leader, because of it josh this book big little breakthroughs how small everyday innovations drive over sized results hey we got to get toward the lightning round here ready.

Josh Linkner: Fire away.

David Horsager: Fire away, how are you yeah you’re the expert in innovation and creativity what’s something you’re doing today to keep innovating or being creative yourself.

Josh Linkner: Well, so I still play guitar all the time that’s my one news, although I, by the way, everyone can have their own news, so if someone wants like digs poetry or interpretive dance do whatever you want, but connect with something that really inspires you creatively.

Josh Linkner: And part of my rituals that I do is, I have a five minute a day creativity ritual I won’t go through every element of it, but just to real quickly.

Josh Linkner: One minute, a day of guzzling creative inputs.

Josh Linkner: So I might start a painting for a minute I might go to YouTube and watch a live music performance or hear someone to spoken word poetry.

Josh Linkner: I figure I just let myself soak in the creativity of others, and then I also do like creative calisthenics almost like jumping Jacks I give myself.

Josh Linkner: an assignment for one minute so like what are 13 alternative uses for a pencil or if you ran.

Josh Linkner: If you were the President of Jamaica, how could you double the amount of Olympic gold medals you could win that year.

Josh Linkner: So just they’re not designed to have practical work product is designed to keep your creativity sharp so again, but just those two minutes a day those alone really feel my creativity and I think could be helpful to others.

David Horsager: Those would be absolutely helpful and I can hear what people are saying right now they’re saying.

David Horsager: Oh, my gosh where, am I going to find that I want to guzzle the creativity i’ll take the five minutes, but I think it’s gonna take me two hours to find the.

David Horsager: interpretive dance right, so what what do they get it we’re going to start on your five minutes just finding it quickly, because you know where you can end up with YouTube is just watching cat videos so what’s the what am I gonna do.

Josh Linkner: Oh, my gosh it’s so easy so just pick a medium you, by the way you could make them like Monday is art day tuesday’s poetry day so make you know give yourself less decisions.

Josh Linkner: And literally go to YouTube and type in like jazz saxophone soul.

Josh Linkner: And just see whatever pops up don’t don’t spend hours and hours looking for the best saxophone solo in the history of the universe just watch someone play great music.

Josh Linkner: And by the way, then YouTube will start suggesting other things i’ve gone down, as we all have down rabbit holes.

Josh Linkner: If you start populating with great creative works, instead of looking at cat videos you’re going to watch some amazing 16 year old singer from Sao Paulo do a beautiful Boston overruff so.

David Horsager: it’s pretty clever and the other on the other point, you know I think a lot of people are gonna say, well, I don’t think in terms of you know 13 alternative uses of pencils and and how I can.

David Horsager: get a team or gold medals from guam you know, so how I what am I going to start with, because I think those are greatly, this is your next book it’s a it’s a it’s a question, a day of hey wake up and think of 13 uses for pencils other than writing what.

David Horsager: What do you, what do you think what, what do you find that little spark because you’re already created a lot of people that are listening are saying, I want to be more creative, I want to, I want to work this muscle, but I don’t know where to start.

Josh Linkner: yeah so just real quick you’re absolutely right work that muscle so Personally, I believe that we’re all creative I don’t think i’m more or less good than anybody else.

Josh Linkner: I may have developed my skills more because I spend more time, focusing on it, but i’m no more creative or less than anybody else.

Josh Linkner: So, which is good news, because that means we all can learn this skill, just like all of us can learn a new language or learn to jazzercise or to play tennis you know.

Josh Linkner: So there to do it start simple you’re exactly right start simple try this for 30 days in a row, try to think of doing if they do it just think of one.

Josh Linkner: teeny tiny mini mini creative thing a day like, for example, next time you order pizza and say hey can I get them pepperoni under the cheese, instead of on top.

Josh Linkner: All you’re doing is thinking of something totally small that is different than what exists today you’re challenging yourself to think about what’s possible instead of what is that’s 30 days one idea you’ll you’ll be a game changer.

David Horsager: All right, we’re gonna come back to lightning round and one second before we do we gotta go for the producer question did you think of order talking Kent.

David Horsager: hey josh so as I was wondering, you know you work with a lot of you’ve worked with a lot of startups a lot of companies.

David Horsager: Do you see a common or a common mistake that startup founders make in the early stages that they could avoid and actually be able to grow a lot faster a lot quicker.

Josh Linkner: I absolutely do and there’s two quotes that kind of say the same thing one is the Zen and i’m sorry it’s a Chinese proverb, it says chase two rabbits and both will escape.

Josh Linkner: Which is essentially they try to do too much stuff and they end up failing they’re not being world class at it and the other quote that it’s actually a venture capital quote is more startups die of indigestion than starvation.

Josh Linkner: Which is exactly the same thing they try to go too fast, go to bed take on too many projects.

Josh Linkner: And they just end up scrape and their needs, they haven’t built this foundational infrastructure to do that effectively so i’m certainly not suggesting anybody slow down that’s not the goal here but it’s to be deliberate and thoughtful.

Josh Linkner: My first book was called discipline dreaming, which is really this yin and Yang concept of yes, you absolutely need dreaming, you need to be.

Josh Linkner: swinging for the fence tonight, but there’s got to be discipline as well, or else you become unhinged so it’s got to have that that sort of left and right brain balance, I think, to proceed diligently and just don’t try to bite off more than you can possibly chew.

David Horsager: Great answer, I agree with that 100% and i’ve been challenged by it several times in my life right so absolutely.

David Horsager: Can you can you tell us, before I get back to the lightning round actually just made me think of this you’ve had a lot of success, you built a lot, yes, sold a lot you’re sitting a lot.

David Horsager: But you can’t hardly be a venture capitalist and not see or have been a part of failure, can you tell us about a failure that you were personally a part of, and what you learn.

Josh Linkner: Oh man, we don’t have enough time i’ve got so many things, I just wanted i’ve interviewed billionaires and yeah they win more maybe, but they also fail, more so.

Josh Linkner: We have to really recognize and celebrate that failure is part of the innovation process.

Josh Linkner: I started a company called fuel leadership, it was going to be like coachella but for business people totally failed lost my shirt on it.

Josh Linkner: I started a technology inside my previous business called caffeine, it was going to be like a self serve.

Josh Linkner: Technology for small businesses to do the type of work we did for big companies totally failed lost my shirt on it so on and on, and I mean i’ve made huge mistakes.

Josh Linkner: But I think one of the biggest things I learned, frankly, is you can’t be sheepish when you go back after it.

Josh Linkner: You know you have to actually go back with with the same vigor that you had in the first place, because if you’re taking your failures with you to the next time at BAT you’re almost ensuring the next failure.

Josh Linkner: I will say this real quickly, though in the venture side of things.

Josh Linkner: I almost have like a social experiment so there’s this all this debate is a startup success the jockey or the horse, in other words the team or the entrepreneur or the technology of the product.

Josh Linkner: So almost identical time and I invested $600,000 each into two separate companies one company had a team and a see idea, the other company had an idea and a CT.

Josh Linkner: like clockwork the person with the C team managed to screw up there a idea I lost every single dime I took a total zero.

Josh Linkner: The other one eight person seed idea, managed to pivot and adapt their see idea into an idea, it became one of the top performing companies in my portfolio they’re still rockin today they’re wildly successful so go figure.

David Horsager: Great example love it all right here we go back to the lightning round so much to take away here everything guzzle creativity every every morning.

David Horsager: A host of of ideas from big little breakthroughs josh linkner his new book and a whole lot more here we go.

David Horsager: Your favorite book or resource right now.

Josh Linkner: I was i’m a crazy reader I know you are to David, but I just started reading Adam grant Adam grants new book called think again, I like 30% in and i’m totally addicted I love the guy was a fellow Detroit person originally, but I think he’s just brilliant and I love his work.

David Horsager: Okay i’m taking another veer off the, off the lightning round because Detroit I mean you talk about your right there in the middle of a turnaround city, we get a C and we work with trestle you know we work with cities we got.

David Horsager: Some of the biggest cities in the world, even countries we’re doing trust edge work but you’ve firsthand seen what a turnaround in Detroit can you speak to that for a second.

Josh Linkner: yeah so I was born in the city of Detroit not the suburbs, the city as where my parents and grandparents and i’ve had the chance to leave a lot of times I always wanted to stay and be part of it like this is a city with a soul.

Josh Linkner: And it’s funny like you know hundred years ago, Detroit was kind of the Silicon Valley of our country.

Josh Linkner: But, frankly, we lost our way and it gets back to creativity and innovation, instead of creating cool cars we started like administering automotive corporations.

Josh Linkner: And we built these stifling bureaucracies and you name a problem we’ve had it from racial divisiveness to political corruption to public safety issues.

Josh Linkner: All kinds of bad stuff but but it just like where there’s a forest fire, you know it makes way for new growth.

Josh Linkner: The City of Detroit right now is in in an incredible period of Renaissance there’s art galleries and buildings and construction and like there’s life and it’s just cool.

Josh Linkner: And so we still have a long way to go, it’s not utopia but it’s absolutely on the upswing, partly because we are reinventing we’re not just trying to rebuild the old Detroit we’re finally getting on with the hard work of creating a new one perfect.

David Horsager: All right back to the lightning round I love that i’d love to talk more about Detroit I you know used to be my least favorite city to fly through and now it’s moved up the ranks and that’s just a you know flying delta end up there, a little bit.

David Horsager: You know, going east, where either Atlanta or Detroit often so I know you spent a lot of time on delta like I do or have.

David Horsager: When you’re not flying private i’m pretty sure so let’s let’s jump back in here we go favorite a favorite there’s so many, but a favorite tech gadget or APP right now.

Josh Linkner: i’m going to get back to tally it just super easy and I keep a really clear sense of what i’m doing and it just keeps me focused like okay.

Josh Linkner: I get my reading it for this make that I do my daily workouts that you know, like it just keeps me focused and it’s just.

Josh Linkner: it’s not glamorous it’s just super effective the other one I just say started to is um is audible which is not new, or anything but just.

Josh Linkner: To be able to consume content when you’re in an airport when you’re on the treadmill when you’re whatever it’s just a wonderful gifts, for us to to make to compress time and so i’m constantly listening, even when I can’t be reading.

David Horsager: Absolutely way back to Ziegler calling an automobile university Now you can do it anywhere, while you’re walking listening driving flying and.

David Horsager: You can get your book that way remember trusted leader show.com you get the show notes and i’m grants new book and josh his new book and anything interesting we’ve talked about like tally or audible next up best advice you’ve ever been given.

Josh Linkner: best advice i’ve ever been given hmm that’s a good one.

David Horsager: And don’t get hung up on best maybe a piece when you got to do best it’s it’s hard isn’t it.

Josh Linkner: It is, it is hard um you know my grandmother gave me a piece of advice, at one point which is sort of this she said, no matter what situation you’re in.

Josh Linkner: A classroom business athletic field somebody has to be the best it might as well be you.

Josh Linkner: And it wasn’t any way being cocky or arrogant it wasn’t like that the intention of it was don’t let your own lack of belief hold you back.

Josh Linkner: because everybody on that field, or in that classroom has the same belief system and and and don’t CAP what your possibilities are you know give yourself permission to really go for it.

Josh Linkner: And you know she’s long past but i’ve always carried that around with me and I just think it’s something very meaningful to just like hey let’s focus on what’s possible don’t benchmark yourself against what you think you know the minimum threshold as you see, even go even further.

David Horsager: that’s up my mom said something similar, and it was always go the extra mile anybody can do it halfway right but love it someone has to be the best it might as well be you.

Josh Linkner: just say real quickly there’s a little clip on that that.

Josh Linkner: I i’ve given this advice, it was one segment I repeated again and again and again as i’m building my many companies that someday a company will come along and put us out of business, so it might as well be us.

Josh Linkner: So I flipped my grandma’s code, a little bit, but the notion is basically that.

Josh Linkner: We have to recognize that success is a temporary State in the context of many external factors that today are changing at a rate like none other in history.

Josh Linkner: And so I think it’s incumbent on all of us, both in organizationally and individually to like put our previous selves out of business, I truly hope that I put myself out of business, the job today six months from now i’m a different person I hope you are today because we’re always progressing.

David Horsager: Abraham Lincoln I hope i’m not the man tomorrow that I am today right, I want to be getting better learning changing growing love it two more questions here we go one.

David Horsager: bucket list or hope for the future josh linkner is hope for the future.

Josh Linkner: I think we’ve all been sucked into the political discourse over the last several years and i’m not making a party commentary.

Josh Linkner: But back to your point about trust and empathy and compassion I just hope that we can find some of that I hope that we can start finding the good and each other instead of slinging the arrows.

Josh Linkner: I think we’ve got to be able to unite in this country around the things that really matter that are going to set our kids up for our future and set ourselves up as a nation and stop just fist fighting and slugging it out in the mud.

Josh Linkner: To me it’s been really disappointing just because you know my kids CC this type of thing, and you know insurrection all that again i’m not making a political comment at all I just hope that.

Josh Linkner: I both sides of the aisle that we can inject some more empathy and trust and compassion, I think it’s desperately needed in this world.

David Horsager: Undeniably, I remember so enjoying sitting next to my dad and watching the debates and then I.

David Horsager: embarrassingly i’m showing my kids some of what’s happening in the last few different years of debates and it’s like well I don’t want them to act in certain ways and.

David Horsager: Certainly, so hey before we give the last question of the day, best place to find you josh and it will link all this in the trusted trusted leader show.com show notes, but best place to find you or find out about what you’re doing these days.

Josh Linkner: yeah simplest and easy to remember is just big little breakthrough is calm.

Josh Linkner: there’s all stuff about me there but but there’s also a free creativity assessment there’s all kinds of tool kits and goodies.

Josh Linkner: And there is a password required to get to the really good stuff and so i’ll make password for everybody listening today trusted.

Josh Linkner: So if you go to there’s like it says toolkit and you have to enter a secret code just use the secret code trust it and I know you could put that in the show notes.

Josh Linkner: But um it’s tons of free access to all kinds of goodies and worksheets and tools that hopefully can help everyday people become everyday innovators.

David Horsager: And we are continual learners i’m excited to go all the way through this book will be doing it here comes out for everybody in April, but you can pre order, right now, so with that the final question it’s the trusted leader show who’s a leader you trust and why.

Josh Linkner: You know there’s a leader of one of the companies that I started I don’t know if this is like the the all time best in the universe, or whatever.

Josh Linkner: But his name is Paul glovsky he runs a company called Detroit labs and we help to get that company off the ground, provided the early seed funding.

Josh Linkner: And he’s one of those guys again he’s not larger than life, he sort of TRIPS on his words from time to time you think of them as sort of understated but this guy is just.

Josh Linkner: he’s it to me exemplary of being a trusted leader, he walks the walk he’s humble he gives other people that credit.

Josh Linkner: And he’s just a man of his word you just know you know, to me, trust and I know you have a lot more research on this and me isn’t only are you telling the truth of that’s a part of it obviously that’s a baseline but.

Josh Linkner: It also means you know, do you deliver on expectations are you reliable, are you competent and to me he just checks up all those boxes and when I see people like that to me, those are the people that you just fall in love with and want to work with.

David Horsager: fantastic example often it isn’t the big the big celebrity show it’s the it’s the end and being the same onstage and offstage right just personally.

David Horsager: josh, thank you for spending these Minutes with us, with all of our trusted leaders and just forgiven your insight time i’ve got so much here, I know i’ve got.

David Horsager: two pages of notes other people do as well if they’re not driving I bet so thank you and thanks, thank you most of all for being my friend.

Josh Linkner: David right back at you Thank you so much for the great work that you do and continue to promote the much, much needed trust in our world so cheers to you and let’s keep being creative together.

David Horsager: Absolutely that’s it for the trusted leader show this time until next time stay trusted.

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