Ep. 67: Rory Vaden on How You Can Multiply Your Time

In this episode, David sits down with Rory Vaden, Business Strategy & Leadership Expert, Speaker, Author, And Entrepreneur, to discuss how you can multiply your time.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Rory’s Bio:
Rory Vaden, MBA, CSP, CPAE is the New York Times bestselling author of “Take the Stairs: 7 Steps to Achieving True Success” and “Procrastinate on Purpose: 5 Permissions to Multiply Your Time.” A recognized expert in business strategy and leadership, insights have been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, CNN, Entrepreneur, Inc, on Fox News national television and in several other major media outlets. As a world renowned speaker, his TEDx talk has been viewed over 4 million times, he is a 2x World Champion of Public Speaking Finalist, has been called one of the top 100 leadership speakers in the world by Inc Magazine and was recently inducted into the professional speaking Hall of Fame. He is the Co-Founder of Brand Builders Group and the host of the Influential Personal Brand Podcast.

Rory’s Links:
Website: https://www.roryvaden.com/
Blog: https://www.roryvaden.com/blog
“Procrastinate On Purpose” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3AEAGqp
“Take The Stairs” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3L5jm2H
Rory’s TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X7c9TUQJ8
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roryvaden/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/roryvaden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rorywvaden
Twitter: https://twitter.com/roryvaden
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/RoryVadenTV

Key Quotes:
1. “Time management isn’t just logical, it’s emotional.”
2. “What can I do right now to make tomorrow better?”
3. “There is a point of diminishing returns to prioritizing as a strategy.”
4. “There is nothing about prioritizing that creates more time.”
5. “You can’t solve today’s time management challenges using yesterday’s time management strategies.”
6. “Importance is a question of how much does something matter. Urgency is how soon does something matter. Significance is how long is this going to matter.”
7. “Spend time on things today that create more time tomorrow.”
8. “You have to embrace being ok with things being incomplete.”
9. “The next level of results requires the next level of thinking.”
10. “If you can’t get things done through other people, then your leadership can’t expand.”
11. “Anything great in the world requires a team.”
12. “Straight A students make bad entrepreneurs.”
13. “Success is never owned; it is only rented – and the rent is due every day.”
14. “Most results in life come from our routines.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Procrastinate On Purpose” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3AEAGqp
“Take The Stairs” by Rory Vaden: https://amzn.to/3L5jm2H
“The Trust Edge” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/3ADPPYZ
“Deep Work” by Cal Newport: https://amzn.to/3rcmtxS
“Essentialism” by Greg McKeown: https://amzn.to/3g5SnWb
“The One Thing” by Jay Papasan and Gary Keller: https://amzn.to/3g7efR9
Rory’s TEDx Talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2X7c9TUQJ8

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the Trusted Leader Show. it’s David Horsager and I have a dear

[david_horsager]: friend with me today. he is New York Time’s best selling author of Take the

[david_horsager]: Stairs. He is a hall of fame speaker, Co founder of Brand Builder Group. He’ also an

[david_horsager]: adjunct

[david_horsager]: entreprenure entrepreneurship editor at Success Magazine And he’s a love. your

[david_horsager]: family. Welcome, Rory.

[rory_vaden]: Hedy, good to be here.

[david_horsager]: It’s great to have you, And you have you know? Since we’ve known each other,

[david_horsager]: you’ve grown up a company massively and moved from there and built another

[david_horsager]: company called Brand Builders Group. We’ going to talk about your newest

[david_horsager]: research

[david_horsager]: soon with your co founder, but today I, I want to back up a little bit.

[david_horsager]: first of all, Just like for people that don’t know Rory Baton gives a

[david_horsager]: little. you know snapshot behind something we don’t know.

[rory_vaden]: Oh yeah, well, um, you know I, I was raised by a single mom, Uh, who sold Mary

[rory_vaden]: Ky cosmetics, And that’s an important part of my story. and Um, I’ve always just

[rory_vaden]: been fascinated by the psychology of influence. And why do some people have

[rory_vaden]: influence and others down? And and we grew up? I was born in a trailer park in

[rory_vaden]: in Colorado, and Um, we just never had much. but my mom sold Mary Kay cosmetics.

[rory_vaden]: And so I grew up around women who are always like teaching me the principles of

[rory_vaden]: success.

[rory_vaden]: Um,

[rory_vaden]: and I means, I also know more about makeup than I do about cars. Uh, which is a

[rory_vaden]: true story, and I just have have been kind of infatuated with that. And when I

[rory_vaden]: went to Um college, I, I spent some time in my summers in college, going door to

[rory_vaden]: door fourteen hours a day, six days a week. I learned about Um, one on one, like

[rory_vaden]: influencing another person there, and I would say I’d actually say You know the

[rory_vaden]: way I think about influence days. I sort of divided up into four levels, so when

[rory_vaden]: I was in Uh, high school, and when I was young, I learned about level one which

[rory_vaden]: was influencing myself, and I became a first degree black belt when I was ten

[rory_vaden]: years old, and I was the youngest black belt in Colorado to ever get beaten up

[rory_vaden]: by a girl. Um, which is true story, but uh, I, you know, I studied really hard.

[rory_vaden]: I was vaectorian, Uh, got a full ride scholarship. That was how I was able to

[rory_vaden]: afford college, and then when I was in college, I got involved in direct sales,

[rory_vaden]: and Um, and so I learned you know, knocking on doors level two influence, which

[rory_vaden]: is I. I consider influencing one other person.

[rory_vaden]: And then I became a recruiter in that company and I was. I was recruiting a team

[rory_vaden]: and so by the time I left college, I was in. I was involved in what I consider

[rory_vaden]: level three leadership, which is leading or influencing a group of people. Um. I

[rory_vaden]: had about fifty seven people who I had recruited when I was in college, And

[rory_vaden]: then, as you mentioned, my Um, my wife and I started a company in two thousand

[rory_vaden]: six with four people. We scaled it to two two hundred people. It was an eight

[rory_vaden]: figure business. We exited that in twenty eighteen, and over the course of that

[rory_vaden]: time we had learned a lot about Um, public speaking and writing, and Um building

[rory_vaden]: online followings and and creating movements. And we consider that level four

[rory_vaden]: influence which is leading a leading a community. So you have leading yourself,

[rory_vaden]: which would be my first two books To Take the stairs, and and and procrastinate

[rory_vaden]: on purpose, leading another, per, or influencing another person, which is sales,

[rory_vaden]: influencing a team, which is leadership. And then now we’re spending a lot of

[rory_vaden]: time teaching people and helping them influence an entire community. Uh, which

[rory_vaden]: is Brainuilders Group.

[david_horsager]: Love it. well, we’re going to jump all around here and it’s okay and I, I

[david_horsager]: think I’m so proud of you how you lead your family too, And tell tell us

[david_horsager]: about that family of your Is those kiddos and and your wife a ▁j, real

[david_horsager]: quick.

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, so we, um, we have a four year old named Jasper, a two two year old named

[rory_vaden]: Lim, Um. Jasper is kind and compassionate and empathetic. He’s he is likely to

[rory_vaden]: you know, work in the either the medical profession or a service industry, or he

[rory_vaden]: might have seventeen children. Um. Lim. our two year old is A, is a fraternity

[rory_vaden]: boy trapped in a toddler’s body. Um. he is a wrecking ball and there is nothing

[rory_vaden]: he won’t jump off of or eat or throw. Um. And he, he lives full throttle, And so

[rory_vaden]: the last few years have been crazy because we exited a company. How to St. Ha,

[rory_vaden]: had a baby had to start up. Um, hit covet, had another baby. So it’s it’s It’s

[rory_vaden]: been a. It’s been a while ride. but um,

[rory_vaden]: that’s uh. that’s our little. That’s our creative over here to Vaden Villa,

[david_horsager]: Well, I’m proud of not just who you are, but how you’ve done that and it’s

[david_horsager]: been fun to see and navigate. Uh, you know, leading well at home, trying to

[david_horsager]: lead yourself

[david_horsager]: and and leing this new company and seeing it thrive in the midst of amazing

[david_horsager]: challenges. Um, so really excited about that. Let’s Ste. step back for a

[david_horsager]: moment and and look at, you know, Take take the stairs a lot there about

[david_horsager]: discipline. It’s certainly who you are, but I want to bump up to Uh, this

[david_horsager]: multiplier time idea and

[rory_vaden]: H,

[david_horsager]: that book was really good for me. pop, uh, procrastinate on purpose. How to

[david_horsager]: multiply your time. I think this is still so relevant for everybody. even

[david_horsager]: even though it seems impossible you can’t boil by time Right. Well, we’ll

[david_horsager]: talk about that, but

[rory_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: I think Um, we’re going to talk about that very soon. We have a ▁j. Aj, and

[david_horsager]: you on will talk about the newest research by brand builders and everything

[david_horsager]: around that that has all to do with trust and building trust. also, but I

[david_horsager]: know if we’re going to be trusted, One of the pills we talk about

[david_horsager]: contribution. we got to get results, and one of those, one of the ways we do

[david_horsager]: that is we use our time well, So I, I just think I got to jump into the very

[david_horsager]: first sentence in the book.

[david_horsager]: You say this. Everything you know about time management is wrong.

[david_horsager]: What you mean?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, y. yeah. well, so here’s what happened, Dave. So, when you know to the

[rory_vaden]: topic of what we’re just talking about

[rory_vaden]: during our first company, we started to grow really fast, and once we got to

[rory_vaden]: where we had like thirty forty people, it was really getting crazy and I was

[rory_vaden]: working a lot of hours and I was trying to like. I wasn’t. I never planned on

[rory_vaden]: writing a book to to solve the world’s problems around like time. I was just

[rory_vaden]: trying to like learn some stuff to help me breathe, because

[rory_vaden]: theoretically we should know more about time management today than ever before.

[rory_vaden]: There are more books on the subject. Um, there are more productivity experts.

[rory_vaden]: There’s more courses

[rory_vaden]: and and yet I, we, also, by the way, have more tools and technology to help us

[rory_vaden]: calendar and organize stuff, and find things and automate things or whatever,

[rory_vaden]: And in reality, when I look around most leaders today, I think, feel more busy,

[rory_vaden]: more buried more behind, more stressed, more overwhelmed. almost, in some cases

[rory_vaden]: to the point of of, like an exhaustion, and even hopelessness of this idea.

[rory_vaden]: That, like will I ever be able to get ahead? Like will I ever catch a second to

[rory_vaden]: breathe. And so that right there kind of is what spoke to me originally. Even

[rory_vaden]: though we never thought we would write a book on the subject, it was like

[rory_vaden]: something is missing here like we somehow. Even though we have all this content

[rory_vaden]: in the world about productivity, it’s not working.

[david_horsager]: Mhm?

[rory_vaden]: And what happened was I was at a colleague’s house on a Saturday morning. We had

[rory_vaden]: a work meeting and I was over there picking him up and he has this little, this

[rory_vaden]: little girl, his little baby girl that that lives with him, And so we’re

[rory_vaden]: sneaking out of the house and she hears him. It’s like early in the morning and

[rory_vaden]: she runs out of bed and she runs down the hallway and she grabs his leg as we’re

[rory_vaden]: trying to leave,

[rory_vaden]: and and she looks up at him and she says You know Daddy. Where are we going

[rory_vaden]: and he says, Oh, I’m sorry, baby Daddy actually has to go to work today.

[rory_vaden]: Well,

[rory_vaden]: her little eyes turned to tears

[rory_vaden]: and she says

[rory_vaden]: no, daddy, please. no work.

[rory_vaden]: no more work, Daddy.

[rory_vaden]: and in that moment it dawned on me Dave, that everything I had ever learned

[rory_vaden]: about time management was all about tips and tricks. tools and technology,

[rory_vaden]: calendars and checklists. It was ways of organizing things. Um. In other words,

[rory_vaden]: it was all logical, and in that moment I realized that today time management

[rory_vaden]: isn’t just logical, it’s emotional and it is our feelings of guilt and fear and

[rory_vaden]: worry anxiety. it, it is our desire to feel successful and valued and important,

[rory_vaden]: as well as our fear of failing and letting people down. Um, it is guilt and

[rory_vaden]: obligation. There are these emotions that actually dictate what we end up doing

[rory_vaden]: with our time, as much as anything that is honoured to do Lister in our

[rory_vaden]: calendar, And yet

[rory_vaden]: nobody or nobody that I’d ever met had ever been trained on the emotional side

[rory_vaden]: of time management. And so that’s where we started digging in was going. What

[rory_vaden]: are the underlying emotions that are going on? Um, and that set us on a

[rory_vaden]: completely different trajectory? Um, And And, and we really uncovered a couple

[rory_vaden]: of really really big differences which end up becom my Ted talking. The Ted talk

[rory_vaden]: went viral. The book didn’t

[david_horsager]: over three million views.

[rory_vaden]: yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s There’s a ton of use. So they, but the the book

[rory_vaden]: doesn’t took. the book, Ironically doesn’t sell that well. Uh, it’s a lesson

[rory_vaden]: that we teach our brandbuilder group clients. Is that we titled it poorly if we

[rory_vaden]: would have called the book How to multiply time, which is what the book is

[rory_vaden]: really about? And that’s what we called the talk? Um. We would have done better

[rory_vaden]: because it’s clear about what it is. Procrastinating on purpose. is a kind of a

[rory_vaden]: confusing title. Uh, you know, looking after the fact, but that is the

[rory_vaden]: conversation And, and it led us to figure out how it is literally possible to

[rory_vaden]: multiply time.

[david_horsager]: Well, we talk about trust here, and that doesn’t sound like a very

[david_horsager]: trustworthy statement unless you, God. multiplying times seems like a pretty

[david_horsager]: big ask. But I read the book and I do like. actually, the idea of the

[david_horsager]: fundamental of what we’re going to get to procrastinating on purposes is is

[david_horsager]: right on. But let’s talk about this when. for thosekeeptics that are

[david_horsager]: listensting today, trust the leaders that are say, come on, you can’t

[david_horsager]: multiply time,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, so I get that, Um, And and you know I think people typically when I say

[rory_vaden]: it’s you know, I’m go to teach how to multiply time. People typically have two

[rory_vaden]: responses. The first one is either no way that’s crazy. It’s impossible or the

[rory_vaden]: other. The the the other one is, they’ll say. Oh, that’s just my marketing.

[rory_vaden]: hyperbly. You’re exaggerating it. Y. you know, it’s like a superlative and it is

[rory_vaden]: neither of those things. Uh, we literally figured out how to multiply tide. And

[rory_vaden]: so here’s how this is is possible.

[rory_vaden]: Now

[rory_vaden]: it is true that there is nothing that that I can teach you that will create more

[rory_vaden]: time inside of one day. We all have the same twenty four hours, which is

[rory_vaden]: fourteen hundred and forty minutes, or eighty six thousand, four hundred

[rory_vaden]: seconds. But that’s exactly the problem most people wake up, and they say what’s

[rory_vaden]: the most important thing I have to do to day. But that’s not how multipliers

[rory_vaden]: think. What we discovered is that there’s this new type of thinker that is

[rory_vaden]: emerged. That, Um, we refer to it as a multiplier and a multiplier.

[rory_vaden]: Um processes decisions completely differently, so they don’t ask themselves.

[rory_vaden]: what’s the most important thing I can do to today. The way that multipliers

[rory_vaden]: think is they asked themselves. What are the things that I can do right now that

[rory_vaden]: make to morrow better? What are the things I can do to day That make to morrow

[rory_vaden]: easier. And this is how? Uh, This is something that we now call the significance

[rory_vaden]: calculation. And of course, the late great Doctor Cvey, Um, wrote a book in

[rory_vaden]: Nineteen Eighty Nine that changed the world. Seven habits, highly affected

[rory_vaden]: people. I know, you’ve all heard of it, sold millions of copies and he

[rory_vaden]: introduced, you know. Ar. One time, management thinking was just very one

[rory_vaden]: dimensional. It was about efficiency and doing things faster, but Doctor Cvy

[rory_vaden]: brought us into what we referr to as Erra too, thinking, because he introduced

[rory_vaden]: this framework called the time management matrix, where the Y acces is

[rory_vaden]: importance in the ex excess’ ▁urgency, You probably seen it, Um. and it was

[rory_vaden]: really too dimensional and he taught us prioritizing, And so that book kind of

[rory_vaden]: single handedly ushered in the era of prioritizing, which was to focus first on

[rory_vaden]: what matters most,

[rory_vaden]: which is still good. Its prioritizing is still good, as is efficiency, but there

[rory_vaden]: is a point of diminishing returns to prioritizing as a strategy, which is which

[rory_vaden]: is this. There is nothing about prioritizing that creates more time. All

[rory_vaden]: prioritizing does is reshuffle things. It’s more like borrowing time. It’s

[rory_vaden]: saying okay, I’ll take itom number seven on my to do listen, and I’ll bump it up

[rory_vaden]: to number one, which is valuable, but it doesn’t inherently create time, and it

[rory_vaden]: doesn’t help us resolve the other items that remain on our to do list, Which is

[rory_vaden]: why so many leaders are busy, buried and overwhelmed you. And and by the way

[rory_vaden]: that book was written in the year Nineteen Eighty Nine, think about the world in

[rory_vaden]: Nineteen eighty nine. there’s no cellphones. There’s no social media. there’s no

[rory_vaden]: internet like the world is radically different, and you you you can’t solve to

[rory_vaden]: day’s time management challenges using yesterday’s time management strategies. I

[rory_vaden]: mean the world has changed. So what we noticed was as we were profiling these

[rory_vaden]: ▁ultra performers. We call them ▁ultra performers and take the stairs. And then

[rory_vaden]: we kind of went back to a lot of them and said Hey, what are your philosophies

[rory_vaden]: about time? These top one percenters, they were making a new calculation which

[rory_vaden]: we referred to as the significance calculation. So, while Doctor Cvey changed

[rory_vaden]: the world with importance and ▁urgency, which are still relevant, these

[rory_vaden]: multipliers had evolved to making a third calculation, which, if you were

[rory_vaden]: looking at it visually, it would take what what Doctor Cvey had as a square, and

[rory_vaden]: it would turn it into a cube. The significance calculation becomes the ▁z axis.

[rory_vaden]: If you can think back to you know high school algebra and it makes it three

[rory_vaden]: dimensional well.

[rory_vaden]: in literal terms, what does that mean? The significance calculation is simply

[rory_vaden]: thinking about to morrow and the next day and the next day. So

[rory_vaden]: importance is

[rory_vaden]: a question of how much does something matter?

[rory_vaden]: ▁urgency is how soon does something matter? But significance is different.

[rory_vaden]: Significance is how long is this going to matter,

[rory_vaden]: and this brings us to how it is possible in one sentence to multiply time. You

[rory_vaden]: multiply time

[rory_vaden]: by giving yourself the emotional permission to spend time on things to day

[rory_vaden]: that create more time to morrow.

[rory_vaden]: Spend time on things to today that create more time to morrow. There are certain

[rory_vaden]: things, Uh, and we bucketed them. Basically, there’s five We, we think, there’s

[rory_vaden]: more or less only five different categories of things that multiply time. Uh, we

[rory_vaden]: talk about the focus Funel. We can talk through him if you want, But there are

[rory_vaden]: there are certain things that you can do that don’t actually save you time to

[rory_vaden]: day. They actually cost you time to day.

[rory_vaden]: But there are certain things you can do to day that will create more time to

[rory_vaden]: morrow. And and it is that significance calculation that long term thinking of

[rory_vaden]: the Ne, the future, tomorrow, the next day, the next day the next day, That

[rory_vaden]: changes everything. But but here’s the problem, Dave is that

[rory_vaden]: absent

[rory_vaden]: a conscious decision to focus on the significance, calculation,

[rory_vaden]: leaders

[rory_vaden]: inadvertently almost always default to the ▁urgency calculation, we constantly

[rory_vaden]: fall victim to what Charles Uh

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: Hummel called in Nineteen sixty Nine, the tyranny of the ▁urgent. We are falling

[rory_vaden]: victim to whatever is latest and loudest. Most of us have our in boox organized

[rory_vaden]: not by what is most significant, but what is at the top of our inbox is what is

[rory_vaden]: most recent, and that is reflective of a mentality in a, in a mode of operating,

[rory_vaden]: which is, we’re constantly reactive and we’re not strategic about selecting the

[rory_vaden]: right activities because we live in a world absent the significance calculation.

[rory_vaden]: and

[david_horsager]: so let’s stop for one second here.

[rory_vaden]: yeah, go ahead.

[david_horsager]: I want to save this other because you said, but how soon it will matter Is

[david_horsager]: the question for ▁urgency.

[rory_vaden]: Yes,

[david_horsager]: The question for importance is

[rory_vaden]: how long does it matter like?

[david_horsager]: no. That’s the significance.

[rory_vaden]: Oh, sorry, importance is how much does it matter

[david_horsager]: How much

[rory_vaden]: now, Get not get this. So importance is the Y axis and Covey’s model

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[rory_vaden]: right, And so uh, part of what we’re doing is really just adding to Coovey’s

[rory_vaden]: model, just by adding that ▁zik that ▁z

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[rory_vaden]: accis calculation. So both ▁urgency and significance are components of the

[rory_vaden]: importance calculation. But if the significance calculation is invisible or

[rory_vaden]: unconscious, then we default to what is visible and conscious, which is the

[rory_vaden]: thing right in front of our face, which we actually coined the term for that.

[rory_vaden]: Intake the stairs. So so so My first book Take the stairs was really about the

[rory_vaden]: psychology of overcoming procrastination, And it was a very like the reason.

[rory_vaden]: Take the Stairs sell so many copies. Iscause. It applies to everybody in the

[rory_vaden]: world, and companies will like Bi. It for every employe’s like it. It’s kind of

[rory_vaden]: like Trust edge. It applies to everybody, and that is how to build discipline to

[rory_vaden]: overcome procrastination. But there was one little section and take the stairs,

[rory_vaden]: where we talked about the three types of procrastination, one of which we

[rory_vaden]: invented this phrase, priority dilution and we said priority dilution is an

[rory_vaden]: emerging form of procrastination that we’re noticing in leaders, and it’s ironic

[rory_vaden]: because we’re noticing it in the very types of people who you wouldn’t consider

[rory_vaden]: to be procrastinators. In fact, they’re very much the opposite. They’re the

[rory_vaden]: chronic over retievers, the dogoters, the checkliisters, the task masters,

[rory_vaden]: they’re they’re the entrepreneurs, the executives, but as their star rises, and

[rory_vaden]: as their pur view grow, and this was reflective of my life Back in those days,

[rory_vaden]: Um, they have more and more on their plate and their priorities dilute and so,

[rory_vaden]: even though they’re not lazy or apathetic or disengaged like a classic

[rory_vaden]: procrastinator, they do have the same net result, which is at the end of the

[rory_vaden]: day, their most significant priorities are left incomplete. Not because they’

[rory_vaden]: are lazy, because they allowed their attention to shift to less important, but

[rory_vaden]: perhaps more. ▁urgent things I priority dilution, which is what set the stage

[rory_vaden]: for the second book and how to multiply time with the significance calculation.

[david_horsager]: let’s get through these really quick.

[david_horsager]: Just just kind to have the overview. The five permissions, because I think

[david_horsager]: it’s important because I think people are sitting here saying yes. That’s

[david_horsager]: me. Yes, I do a whole lot, but not the most important things. right. Yes,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: but how can I get out of the wheel? I’ve got this people come to meet for

[david_horsager]: this people coming down the Ceo. Im the senior leader. I,

[rory_vaden]: yeah,

[david_horsager]: How do I actually break out of that and maybe at least is a framework. We

[david_horsager]: could quickly go through the five decisions or permission.

[rory_vaden]: totally. so let’s let’s do it ill. I’ll give you the overview and then we can

[rory_vaden]: dive up. my. Uh, there’s a good chance that delegate for your audiences probably

[rory_vaden]: like where the magic is. So I, if we were going to dive in on one there it would

[rory_vaden]: probably be automat or delegate. But so all right, so we actually call this This

[rory_vaden]: is a framework. So we call this the focus Funel. Um, and by the way, you can

[rory_vaden]: watch my Ted talk to and

[david_horsager]: Y,

[rory_vaden]: it shows this Pi picture you could buy the book. Um, but the the Tet Talkck is

[rory_vaden]: free. But the, If you picture a funnel where just all of your stuff to do is

[rory_vaden]: coming in the top right, it could be text messages and your in boox, and sticky

[rory_vaden]: notes. And just like all the stuff there is to do,

[rory_vaden]: the sequence is important and there is A is a sequential set of thinking. Uh,

[rory_vaden]: that multipliers go through, and their first question is eliminate.

[rory_vaden]: So the the first of the five permissions is what we call the permission to

[rory_vaden]: ignore, which is the permission to eliminate

[rory_vaden]: anything that I say no to today,

[rory_vaden]: multiplies time tomorrow. because it prevents me from doing something that I

[rory_vaden]: would have otherwise been doing. So it creates time tomorrow. Spend time on

[rory_vaden]: things today that create more time tomorrow by spending time figuring out what

[rory_vaden]: you can say no to That is the widest swath of opportunity for an individual and

[rory_vaden]: an entire company. By the way, in both of our companies, the one that we exited,

[rory_vaden]: and in our current company we have had to shut down entire divisions in order to

[rory_vaden]: multiply and go all in on the on the one thing. So anyway, so that’s eliminate.

[rory_vaden]: If a task can’t be eliminated, then it drops into the middle of the focus

[rory_vaden]: funnel, which is automate automat, Is we call it the permission to invest, Um,

[rory_vaden]: because it is the permission to invest the time and the money to set up a system

[rory_vaden]: or a process to today. Because anything you create a process for today will save

[rory_vaden]: you time tomorrow. Um.

[rory_vaden]: Now, the irony is you, we think. Oh, I don’t have time to do that, but that and

[rory_vaden]: that is always true. Absent the significance calculation. you never have time to

[rory_vaden]: build a process today. but when you make the significance calculation you

[rory_vaden]: realize. Oh, that’s actually the exact opposite Until I create a process for it.

[rory_vaden]: I will continually imprison myself to having to do this myself. Um, because I

[rory_vaden]: haven’t created a process for someone else to follow to To do the thing. If you

[rory_vaden]: can’t automate it, Um, then it drops down to delegate,

[rory_vaden]: Um, which is the permission of imperfect and permission of imperfection, So we

[rory_vaden]: can probably

[david_horsager]: Hm.

[rory_vaden]: talk about Wh. Why that is Um. But delegating has a lot more to do with your

[rory_vaden]: emotional, Um, Some some underlying emotions going on, Um

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[rory_vaden]: than anything.

[rory_vaden]: Um. Now, if it can’t be eliminated, automated or delegated, then that task falls

[rory_vaden]: through out the bottom of the focus funnel, and at that point there’s one

[rory_vaden]: remaining question, which is must this task be done right now? Which is

[rory_vaden]: concentrate. The permission to protect, Um, which is all about focus, And I

[rory_vaden]: would say that’s actually what the Take the stairs book is about is about how to

[rory_vaden]: protect your focus from creative avoidance, and do the thing you know you should

[rory_vaden]: be doing, even when you don’t feel like doing it. That’s to takes the stairs

[rory_vaden]: book. There’s some other great books. Uh. I would say Cal Newport’s book Deep

[rory_vaden]: Work, Gregncuan’s essentialism

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: Uh, ▁j, popasana, Gary colors the one thing. all of those books kind of ▁zone in

[rory_vaden]: on that. So to me that part wasn’t that fascinating. Um, Um, there’s because

[rory_vaden]: there’s a lot of books that talk about focus. Um, still really difficult to do.

[rory_vaden]: but, but the fascinating part was

[rory_vaden]: If the answer to the question, must this task be done now is no,

[rory_vaden]: Then it can wait until later. Then that is where we’re in encouraging you and

[rory_vaden]: inviting you, and challenging you to not eliminate automate, delegate, or

[rory_vaden]: concentrate, but to procrastinate on purpose, which is where the title of the

[rory_vaden]: book comes from. We call it the Permission of incomplete. It is actually

[rory_vaden]: a very big struggle that a necessary one that you have to embrace being okay

[rory_vaden]: with things being incomplete, because by allowing certain things to deliberately

[rory_vaden]: sit as incomplete, that is what creates the margin for you to reallocate your

[rory_vaden]: time into the things that will truly multiply time. the things that are really

[rory_vaden]: significant, Um in that great time tomorrow, So, um, Now, if you’re going to pr,

[rory_vaden]: you’re going to procrastinating on purpose, you don’t procrastinate on it

[rory_vaden]: forever. You pop, you use that. We, we call it Pop, You pop that activity back

[rory_vaden]: to the top of the focus Funel, And so what happens is that activity enters into

[rory_vaden]: a holding pattern where it’s just cycling through the focus Funel, until at one

[rory_vaden]: point sooner or later one of the other four things will happen. You’ll either

[rory_vaden]: eliminate it, automatated, delegate, or the question. Can this wait until later

[rory_vaden]: will change from? Yes, it can, to know it cannot, and then it will slide down

[rory_vaden]: and to concentrate and you’ll do it and you’ll complete the activity. So that’s

[rory_vaden]: the high level. I mean, that’s like the whole book in three minutes. Um.

[david_horsager]: Yeah, so let’s let’s say number one, you can go see the tad, talk like over

[david_horsager]: three million other people. You can get the book Pop and

[david_horsager]: progresse pop, or how to multiply your time, but let’s just talk about a

[david_horsager]: couple of things here because I know there’s a whole lot more we can talk

[david_horsager]: about. I’d love to talk. We’re just going have to have you come back. Talk

[david_horsager]: about building your businesses and all that, but

[rory_vaden]: yeah, yeah,

[david_horsager]: let’s talk about one problem I think we have and that is that delegate. We

[david_horsager]: talked about this before.

[david_horsager]: I think there’s a big challenge of leaders. leaders like me that really

[david_horsager]: believe in high quality high

[david_horsager]: calibre like you, built your business on high quality, and so

[rory_vaden]: yep, yep.

[rory_vaden]: yeah.

[david_horsager]: letting it go certain ways or certain places, its challenging. What are a

[david_horsager]: couple

[rory_vaden]: y.

[david_horsager]: things we can think about?

[rory_vaden]: okay. Okay. So so and let’s tackle this two ways? So if I, if you, if you as the

[rory_vaden]: average leader, whether they were a small business owner or fortune, one hundred

[rory_vaden]: C, E, O, right, and you said, Are there things that you’re doing every day

[rory_vaden]: that you know could be done by someone else?

[rory_vaden]: almost all of us would say yes. And then if you ask them, say Okay, Well, why

[rory_vaden]: haven’t you done it? They would typically say one of two things. They would

[rory_vaden]: either say it’s just faster for me to do it myself,

[rory_vaden]: or they would say because no one can do it as well as I can.

[rory_vaden]: So those are typically the two emotional Bel. These these beliefs that we have

[rory_vaden]: that prevent us from delegating, So let’s just tackle each of them independently

[rory_vaden]: for a second. So I first want to look at the one that says It’s It’s faster for

[rory_vaden]: me to do it myself and I want to introduce a technique here. Um. so this

[rory_vaden]: technique is called the thirty ▁x rule.

[rory_vaden]: Um, and uh, you know, it’s a little bit of math, but not much. so. if you’re

[rory_vaden]: reading along, it’s easier to follow. but I’ll I’ll try to keep it. you know,

[rory_vaden]: simple for you just to do in your mind, Okay, So the thirty ▁x role is all about

[rory_vaden]: the significance calculation and it’s a. it’s a. it’s a. it’s a. It’s a

[rory_vaden]: practical expression of significant calculation, so the th ▁x will suggest that

[rory_vaden]: you should consider spending thirty times the amount of time it takes you to do

[rory_vaden]: a task once

[rory_vaden]: on training someone one else to do that task for you.

[rory_vaden]: All right, So give an example. Let’s say you have a task that takes you five

[rory_vaden]: minutes a day to complete.

[rory_vaden]: The thirty ▁x. rules suggest that you should consider spending a hundred and

[rory_vaden]: fifty minutes, So thirty ▁x, thirty times five hundred and fifty minutes,

[rory_vaden]: training someone to do that task and dayve. This is where I lose people because

[rory_vaden]: they say they literally. I’ve had people look at me, Gorori. That is the dumbest

[rory_vaden]: thing I have ever heard Like Why in the world would I spend a hundred and fifty

[rory_vaden]: minutes? That’s like two and a half hours.

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: Why in the world would I spend two and a half hours training somebody to do

[rory_vaden]: something that? could? I could just do myself in five minutes. That doesn’t make

[rory_vaden]: any sense, And and my answer is you’re right. It doesn’t make sense unless you

[rory_vaden]: make the significance calculation. Absent the significance calculation, we live

[rory_vaden]: in a world of ▁urgency, in the world of ▁urgency. It’s always one day paradigm.

[rory_vaden]: It never makes sense to trade two and a half hours for five minutes. That never

[rory_vaden]: makes sense. But when you make the significance calculation, everything changes

[rory_vaden]: so let’s do that. And if you just look at one year worth of time, so to keep the

[rory_vaden]: math easy, there’s about two hundred and fifty working days in a year, two

[rory_vaden]: hundred and three and sixty five days a year, about two hundred and fifty

[rory_vaden]: working days.

[rory_vaden]: If that task takes you five minutes a day to complete,

[rory_vaden]: it doesn’t actually take you five minutes. Over the course of a year. It takes

[rory_vaden]: you twelve hundred and fifty minutes, five times two hundred and fifty. you’re

[rory_vaden]: doing it every day Now. If you looked out over your whole career, it would take

[rory_vaden]: even longer than that. but you, maybe it’s not every day or whatever, So let’s

[rory_vaden]: just say it’s twelve hundred and fifty minutes. Now. the calculation looks a

[rory_vaden]: little bit different, right. It’s not. should we spend a hundred and fifty men.

[rory_vaden]: To say five. It should we spend a hundred and fifty minutes to save twelve

[rory_vaden]: hundred and fifty minutes.

[rory_vaden]: The answer is just as obvious as what we as what it was before. but it’s the

[rory_vaden]: complete opposite of what we originally thought,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[rory_vaden]: And here’s what’s crazy Dave. Like

[rory_vaden]: Notice, the task hasn’t changed.

[rory_vaden]: The the person hasn’t changed. Like the only thing that has changed is the

[rory_vaden]: leader’s thinking, And this is always necessary because the next level of

[rory_vaden]: results requires the next level of thinking. Um,

[rory_vaden]: this is a huge return. Like if I told you financially, I have a guaranteed

[rory_vaden]: investment that could guarantee you a seven hundred and thirty three percent

[rory_vaden]: return. You wouldn’t even believe me, you, would you? Would you would say that’s

[rory_vaden]: so unrealistic It’s impossible. I don’t even want to look at that investment

[rory_vaden]: because it’s like anything north of twenty percent would like. pretty much just

[rory_vaden]: be outrageous. But if you evaluate this use of time the same way that you would

[rory_vaden]: evaluate a financial investment, I invested a hundred and fifty minutes in.

[rory_vaden]: Now, your net gain isn’t actually twelve fifty, ’cause you got to subtract the

[rory_vaden]: one fifty you put in, so

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: your net gains eleven hundred. So I, I invested one fifty. I got eleven hundred

[rory_vaden]: back. That is a seven hundred and thirty three per cent. and here’s a a new term

[rory_vaden]: for you, R o t. I return on time.

[rory_vaden]: Invest it. We believe the next generation of cost savings is gonna be much more

[rory_vaden]: focused on saving time than it is on saving money, Because the most expensive

[rory_vaden]: cost on a pan ▁ is the people. It’s the salaries. It’s the hour is. It’s not

[rory_vaden]: that we’re overspending on where we buy our pens and our paper clips from. it’s

[rory_vaden]: that it’s that any one hour of wasted time for an individual is massive. M. It’s

[rory_vaden]: it’s it’s gargantuin comparatively, and yet we never look at that on a pianel.

[rory_vaden]: There’s no no way to measure wasted cost of our people’s time, so

[rory_vaden]: it’s never faster to do it yourself when you make the significant calculation.

[rory_vaden]: Never is. but

[rory_vaden]: that points to the real reason we don’t delegate is not because of that. It’s

[rory_vaden]: really the emotional issue of Well, no one will be able to do it as well as I

[rory_vaden]: can, and this is the crux of the issue because you got to where you are

[rory_vaden]: by demanding perfection. You got to where you are by doing things with

[rory_vaden]: excellence. You got to where you are by caring and doing things perfectly and

[rory_vaden]: going the extra mile. That’s how you became the leader. Here’s what’s insane and

[rory_vaden]: really a difficult switch. To make.

[rory_vaden]: What got you here is a leader won’t get you, or what got you here is a performer

[rory_vaden]: won’t get you there as a leader.

[rory_vaden]: What got you here as a performer won’t get you there as a leader. And and and

[rory_vaden]: Um, Andy Stanley has the best ▁quote. about this. he says You got to remember

[rory_vaden]: that leadership isn’t about getting things done right.

[rory_vaden]: Leadership is about getting things done through other people.

[rory_vaden]: If you can’t get things done through other people than your leadership, can’t

[rory_vaden]: expand your influence, Can’t expand. You

[rory_vaden]: are throttling your impact to only what you are available to touch directly, and

[rory_vaden]: there is a limit on that

[rory_vaden]: anything great in the world requires a team. It requires a movement of people,

[rory_vaden]: and so the limiting belief that we all have, which it starts as a very healthy

[rory_vaden]: thing, Right like it’s you know. This is one of the reasons why I, i, I, um, I

[rory_vaden]: think that straight A students, which I was Rado’s Victorian, like straight a

[rory_vaden]: students make bad entrepreneurs. I. This is an article I’ve wanted to write for

[rory_vaden]: a long time straight. A students make bad entrepreneurs. Why? Because the world

[rory_vaden]: isn’t full of a students, the world is full of C students. By definition, And

[rory_vaden]: what makes you an A student’s demanding perfection? Well, when you’re trying to

[rory_vaden]: lead a bunch of C students, they don’t care as much as you care. they’re not as

[rory_vaden]: driven. They’re not going to work the extra hours. Maybe some of them might,

[rory_vaden]: but, but for the most part they’re not. But but here’s here’s here’s the magic,

[rory_vaden]: and this is where it trus up.

[rory_vaden]: so as a leader

[rory_vaden]: you think to yourself they won’t be able to do it as well as I can.

[rory_vaden]: And you’re right. That is true,

[rory_vaden]: once,

[rory_vaden]: maybe twice, maybe three times, maybe five times, maybe ten times.

[rory_vaden]: But even a de minus student

[rory_vaden]: over the course of time, if they’re only doing one thing or fewer things, they

[rory_vaden]: will be able to do that thing as well as you, and probably better than you

[rory_vaden]: could. because they don’t have as much priority dilution. They don’t have as

[rory_vaden]: many things pulling on them. So we call this the Permission of imperfect, But it

[rory_vaden]: is not saying that you need to compromise your standards. It’s not saying that

[rory_vaden]: you should compromise quality. It’s saying that you should make the significance

[rory_vaden]: calculation, and there should be a season of grace. There should be an allowance

[rory_vaden]: for a learning period. there should be a temporary, uh, relaxation of your

[rory_vaden]: standards

[rory_vaden]: for the, for the purpose of the the payoff of the long term of being able to

[rory_vaden]: multiply your impact overa Um. Now you can supplement it with the things that we

[rory_vaden]: teach an automate, which is you know, standardizing the processes and automating

[rory_vaden]: as much as possible along the way, but this it is this, this, this emotional. I

[rory_vaden]: have to do. otherwise it won’t be done right. That is true once. but that’s

[rory_vaden]: ▁urgency. Over long term, you, you gotta break free of that. Otherwise you’re

[rory_vaden]: just going to imprison yourself to a lifelong sentence of doing everything

[rory_vaden]: yourself

[david_horsager]: this is truth for me. Still as you can imagine why it hit me over the head

[david_horsager]: right. Oh, my goodness, you’ve given us so much, But this is something to

[david_horsager]: think about this funnel eliminate. Can I eliminate it or nor can I automate

[david_horsager]: it. Can I delegate it then? If not, do I need to do it now. Then

[david_horsager]: concentrate. If not. I have permission to. uh, leave it incomplete.

[david_horsager]: Basically right,

[rory_vaden]: procrastinate on purpose, which is where the title the book comes from. is

[david_horsager]: yp,

[rory_vaden]: you know, Because to me that was the fascinating concept. It’s uh. It just

[rory_vaden]: didn’t make a good book title because it needs some explanation. The, you know,

[rory_vaden]: but the core is how do you multiply time? And and if you think about it, one way

[rory_vaden]: to do that is if I procrastinate on the trivial stuff, then

[david_horsager]: y,

[rory_vaden]: now I have the margin of time I was going to spend on that to invest. It’s just

[rory_vaden]: like

[rory_vaden]: the the way that wealthy people invest money is exactly the same way that

[rory_vaden]: multipliers invest time. Like the way you you you find money to invest, right is

[rory_vaden]: it’s it’s it’s very rarely. Oh, I hit the lottery at of the jackpot and I got a

[rory_vaden]: bunch of money.

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[rory_vaden]: It’s It’s very much typically more of. well, let’s we’re not going to go on

[rory_vaden]: vacation. We’re not going to buy the nicer house. We’re not going to buy the

[rory_vaden]: brand new car. We’re not going to buy the big screen T. v, and I’m going to

[rory_vaden]: instead sacrifice that short term pleasure, and I’m goingnna take that and I’m

[rory_vaden]: going to reallocate it. I’m going to invest it, and it will grow over over time.

[rory_vaden]: Uh, in automate one of the things that we we talk about actually is that

[rory_vaden]: automation is to your time exactly as compounding interest is. Uh. uh, sorry,

[rory_vaden]: automation is to your time. what compounding interest is to your money.

[rory_vaden]: Automation takes time and turns it into more money. It’s It’s the same mentality

[rory_vaden]: of an of an investor.

[david_horsager]: Well speaking, a time or running out of it. But this is there so much here.

[david_horsager]: We can we go on. So weve got that. we’ve got the funel. We’ve got some

[david_horsager]: amazing things to think about. You have given us gold. I want to ask you a

[david_horsager]: couple of questions, because I I want to think, Get a little personal

[david_horsager]: because I see you. You know we’re on a we’re to mastermind leadership group

[david_horsager]: together. You’re just amazing human, so everybody can find more about what

[david_horsager]: we just talked about. and really

[david_horsager]: I, I would encourage everybody too, because we’re dealing in time and we

[david_horsager]: want to invest it wisely and multipli. But um, how are you leading yourself?

[david_horsager]: You know, you listen to your your c e o, your co founder you, you’re

[david_horsager]: influencing a whole lot of others. What are some of the things you arere

[david_horsager]: doing? Because I’m proud of your discipline. I remember four and a half

[david_horsager]: years you hadn’t missed. Um, you know a workout.

[rory_vaden]: Uh,

[david_horsager]: Uh, you know, but what are some of the things you’re doing to lead yourself

[david_horsager]: spiritually physically emotionally so you can lead others well,

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, well, I really believe uh in in Take the stairs. So in my first book,

[rory_vaden]: probably the most popular ▁quote from that book, Uh, was something that I called

[rory_vaden]: the rent axiom, which is that success is never owned. It’s only rented and the

[rory_vaden]: rent is due everyda Um, you know, and we wrote that And it’s like Internet me

[rory_vaden]: now and all that stuff. And and in my life day, that’s what I just try to

[rory_vaden]: remember, And so there are things

[rory_vaden]: Uh, As an example.

[rory_vaden]: One of my big focus is is that every day when I wake up, the first thing through

[rory_vaden]: my head is thank you and it is thanking thanking God for whatever I can think of

[rory_vaden]: to be thankful for. Um, also, I want the very first words that I read every day

[rory_vaden]: to be scripture. I don’t want it to be a text. I don’t want to be in email. I

[rory_vaden]: don’t want it to be a news feed. I deliberately choose to control my attention

[rory_vaden]: so that the first words that enter my brain other than my own gratitude, Uh, is

[rory_vaden]: scripture, Uh, and then I, you know, So I get up at five fifteen. I got two

[rory_vaden]: toddlers right, so I have to get through all this before they get up. So um, you

[rory_vaden]: know I, I exercise every day. I only exercise for twelve minutes, but I do it

[rory_vaden]: every day. Um, the. uh, So a lot of it is these daily routines. You know I’ve

[rory_vaden]: I’ve That’s just something I found that most results in life come from our

[rory_vaden]: routines. Um,

[rory_vaden]: and so

[rory_vaden]: uh, I mean, I don’t drink alcohol. I, you know, there’s there’s a number of

[rory_vaden]: things Th. there’s a. there’s a great word, and this is not all I. this. The

[rory_vaden]: whole sounds kind of Christian stuff all all of a sudden, which I don’t mean it

[rory_vaden]: to be, But there is a. There’s a great word Um, called sanctification, which,

[rory_vaden]: which is a Biblical term, which means the gradual cleansing. Um. My life has

[rory_vaden]: been a series of gradual cleansing. Has been one indulgence that I tackled, and

[rory_vaden]: then another indulgence and then another indulgence in another indulgence. Um,

[rory_vaden]: of course having toddlers, I think I’ve been in a season of of

[rory_vaden]: realizing how self centered I was before children, and like that you being

[rory_vaden]: wrestled away and wrestled out of me of like wow, Um,

[david_horsager]: Nothing like kids to teach.

[rory_vaden]: So anyways day, daily disciplines, I, I would

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[rory_vaden]: say would be the You know, to tell you

[david_horsager]: I love it

[rory_vaden]: the short answer, be daily disciplines,

[david_horsager]: roines good routines too.

[rory_vaden]: routines routines, routines.

[david_horsager]: I’m going to ask you one final question before I do, Rory. A whole lot.

[david_horsager]: you’ve given us here today, and people can find the Ted talk. They can find

[david_horsager]: your websites that can find your books. But what’s the best place to find

[david_horsager]: out about you?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, I would just go to Roryvede and blog Dot. com. Um, We, That’s where you

[rory_vaden]: know. I do a free video every week, or you know I host a podca like. But if you

[rory_vaden]: just go to Royvade and blog Dot com. Uh, we’ve got a bunch of free trainings

[rory_vaden]: that are pretty in depth. Uh, several hours of them if you want on different

[rory_vaden]: topics. But yeah, so go to Roy Vaden Blog dot com and then from there you. Well,

[rory_vaden]: you know you have a smorgestborg of things that you can choose if you’re

[rory_vaden]: interested.

[david_horsager]: Looking forward to having an Aj on and more to come from Badens and from

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: brand builders, Andcause We got the The Verse that you gave us hanging

[david_horsager]: right. I can almost show you exactly where it is Is pretty cool. so Um,

[david_horsager]: thank you for that.

[david_horsager]: Hey,

[rory_vaden]: I like it.

[david_horsager]: final question’s a trust the leader, Show who is a leader you trust And why?

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, do you know that I saw like that is such a big question? Um,

[rory_vaden]: you know the

[rory_vaden]: I. I. I actually had a hard time with this question. I’ll I’ll tell you because

[rory_vaden]: I have had some

[rory_vaden]: experiences that. Uh, that people that I would have said, I ended up n very much

[rory_vaden]: being betrayed and not trusting. Um.

[rory_vaden]: So

[rory_vaden]: I think when the for me, the answer that I came up with was Andy Stanley, um, I,

[rory_vaden]: I ▁quoted him. I ▁quoted him earlier. Uh, I don’t have a personal connection to

[rory_vaden]: him though, but he is who I follow Iss one of the people that I follow on

[rory_vaden]: leadership. There’s a lot of people that I that I learn from Um. But the the

[rory_vaden]: reason why the thing that I’m looking for is who are people who actually have

[rory_vaden]: results of leadership in their life, And that is something that I’m trying to

[rory_vaden]: really really pay attention to, Um. Is is the idea of just like,

[rory_vaden]: Um, not what it is on the surface, but

[rory_vaden]: who is actually

[rory_vaden]: you know accomplished the things that you’re trying to accomplish, and I think

[rory_vaden]: of the impact that he’s had. I think that that’s somebody that I admire to. So

[rory_vaden]: that was the answer that I came up as I was. I was. I was thinking about it

[rory_vaden]: trying to be outside of like you know, friend, like you know, personal family

[rory_vaden]: and stuff. but I, I’ll I’ll say this. I’ve never worked for a leader that I have

[rory_vaden]: trusted,

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[rory_vaden]: Um. And that’s heartbreaking.

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[rory_vaden]: Uh, To look back at this point in my career and go. I can’t honestly say that I

[rory_vaden]: have never worked for a leader That I fully trusted that I trusted their

[rory_vaden]: integrity, their their personal interests, and that I trusted that they had my

[rory_vaden]: best in their best, M my best interest, Uh in mind. And so it

[rory_vaden]: gives me a lot to aspire to Um, as a a leader. I. I’d

[rory_vaden]: like to be that for people, but I

[rory_vaden]: go ahead,

[david_horsager]: you know you know I. I just we were just talking about this this week.

[david_horsager]: How often do you have people say I just love my boss, almost never like.

[david_horsager]: I’ve got the greatest boss in the world. You don’t hear that I got an okay

[david_horsager]: boss. I got a terrible boss, but you don’t hear people say Yeah, I just I. I

[david_horsager]: just I love my. I got the most amazing, but you very seldom hear that.

[rory_vaden]: Yeah, No, you don’t. And and um, you know, and I think there’s, I mean, it’s one

[rory_vaden]: of the reasons why I’m such a big fan of your work, and I think Trust Edge

[rory_vaden]: should be a book that should be mandatory reading for every human on the planet.

[rory_vaden]: Um, uh, be be, and I, I think I think trust is a crisis. I think it is you know

[rory_vaden]: really hard in the world, and there’s so much distrust. Even in with our parents

[rory_vaden]: right, our our moms and dads, and um, you know, and social media has been a

[rory_vaden]: whole world of distrust and covet has caused a whole bunch of distrust like it’s

[rory_vaden]: a real real crisis. And um, you know, it’s even tough to say who do you trust,

[rory_vaden]: let alone who’s a leader that you trust. Like who’s somebody that’s leading you?

[rory_vaden]: So it was a. It was actually a really hard question, and and sobering because I

[rory_vaden]: hadn’t really thought about it. And and you asked me to that question, I was

[rory_vaden]: like man. I can’t. even. I can’t name someone who I would consider.

[rory_vaden]: I mean, I guess my pastor at at Crosspoint Church, I would. I would say I

[rory_vaden]: as Kevin. Um,

[rory_vaden]: but like somebody that I’ve directly worked for I, I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t

[rory_vaden]: give it. I couldn’t come up with one.

[david_horsager]: Well, we’ve got more work to do on Trust. We’ve got more work to do

[rory_vaden]: Yeah,

[david_horsager]: on

[rory_vaden]: but

[david_horsager]: uh, being leaders and certainly being trusted leaders. But a huge thank you

[david_horsager]: to my dear friend Rory Vaden, and thanks for spending time with us. Thanks for

[david_horsager]: giving all you got, and to everybody, that’s the trusted leader show for

[david_horsager]: today until next time, stay trusted.

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