Ep. 30: Paul Martinelli on The Key To Effective Personal Transformation

In this episode, David sits down with Paul Martinelli, Internationally Acclaimed Speaker, Trainer, Mentor, and Coach, to discuss the key to effective personal transformation.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Paul’s Bio:
Paul Martinelli is an internationally acclaimed speaker, trainer, mentor, and coach who truly believes that if you can dream it, you can do it.

While many people know Paul as the Founding President and current lead faculty member of The John Maxwell Team, what they may not know is that he is a high school dropout who overcame a stuttering disability to share the stage with some of the biggest names in leadership and personal development – names such as John C. Maxwell, Seth Godin, Jack Canfield, Wayne Dyer, Brian Tracy, Denis Waitley, Zig Ziglar, Les Brown, Nick Vujicic and Mark Victor Hansen.

Paul was raised by a single mother in a Pittsburgh lower class family.

In the late 1980’s, with just $200.00, a used vacuum, and a dream, he founded a small commercial cleaning company in South Florida. He combined smart sales tactics with personal development teachings and propelled his business to unbelievable heights. Just 15 years later, he sold his commercial cleaning company to pursue his passion and purpose of teaching people how to achieve success in their own lives.

His awareness and ability to apply the success strategies and principles that he has learned and taught to others, led to Paul’s success in life and business, including building 5 multi-million-dollar companies.

He now leads the Empowered Living community, a global platform of more than 1.8 million followers, providing personal and professional development training and education to help individuals and businesses build and grow beyond their current results.

Paul Martinelli may not have a wall of diplomas, but you can’t argue with his PhD in results.

Having worked his way up from mop bucket to multi-millionaire, Paul has practiced and proven what he preaches.

Paul’s Links:
Website: https://paulmartinelli.net/
Empowered Living: https://yourempoweredlife.com/
Empowered Living Community Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/empoweredlivingcommunity/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/paul.martinelli/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martinelli_paul/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@paul.martinelli?lang=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf2Piv-pqwFx2zPUx-HeMcA
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmartinelli/

Key Quotes:
1. “Most people are good people. And if given direction and influence they will do the right thing.”
2. “Habit is not a behavior. It’s an expression of a belief.”
3. “The starting point of personal transformation has to be that the person must see themselves complete and whole in relation to that which they want to change.” 4. “Transformation is an inside game.”
5. “Things don’t end well, they start badly.”
6. “Belief drives behavior.”
7. “Become a student of human potential.”
8. “Proximity is power.”
9. “You’ve got to model what you want seen.”
10. “Transformation isn’t an event, it’s a process.”
11. “The answer is really within us.”
12. “It all boils down to trust.”
13. “You can’t make it happen, you can make it welcome.”
14. “Never underestimate the compounding effect of consistency.” – John C. Maxwell

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
The Guardian Angels: http://guardianangels.org/
Empowered Living: https://yourempoweredlife.com/
“Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill: https://amzn.to/3fnaxC4
Paul’s Website: https://paulmartinelli.net/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager i’ve got a special guest today, he was a high school dropout he had a stutter he started.


David Horsager: He he started one of his first companies with a couple hundred dollars at your service.


David Horsager: Inc a cleaning company in Florida and sold at 15 years later, you might know him as the founding president of the john Maxwell team he’s done so much more and.


David Horsager: His energy is contagious he has built a massive community of people that are generous givers and learners it’s called the empowered living Community will give you everything on.


David Horsager: where you can find out about that at the show notes episode notes and trusted leader show.com we’re going to talk about it, how you actually change people and all that but welcome to the show Paul martinelli.


paulmartinelli: Thank you Dave Thank you so much, this has been a long time coming, and i’m so excited and congratulations on the upcoming launch of the book.


David Horsager: Authors paint Thank you well we’re excited about that and the lines a lot with empowerment, as you can imagine, trust and empowerment align it’s been a treat to be.


David Horsager: A part of your work and on your show in the past and connecting in so many ways, but you know tell us let’s just start out let’s get to know Paul tell us something maybe not everybody knows about Paul marinelli.


paulmartinelli: yeah I think one of the things is is that I was number two to curtis Lee who founded the guardian angels in New York City in 1979 and that’s surprising to a lot of people because I don’t guess I guess kind of 50 image of some.


paulmartinelli: Urban vigilante fighting crime in the New York City subway systems, but I did, that it was with probably gave me one of the most impactful things in my life.


paulmartinelli: Having you know courteously WHA and that mentorship in my life and his leadership.


David Horsager: Well, you know and and the guardian angels actually didn’t always gain a perfect reputation everywhere, but in New York City.


David Horsager: They did some amazing work and we’re really loved and adored in many, many ways.


David Horsager: Tell us about that for people that don’t know about it.


paulmartinelli: yeah so in 1979 honestly what founded the guardian angels, he was a nighttime manager of a mcdonald’s in the south bronx.


paulmartinelli: And you know it was like a war zone in the south bronx you remember, this is the 70s, remember the movie the warriors was was out the 70s, and that was depicting New York City.


paulmartinelli: And there was a subway line that ran through New York and in the south bronx was called the muggers express and.


paulmartinelli: So what he was doing was he was taking five or six other guys and they would patrol the trains, the subway system.


paulmartinelli: And they would be on the subway system if they saw somebody be mug or being victimized they would literally step in and place people under citizen’s arrest.


paulmartinelli: And so, he started and founded this group, it has grown now internationally thousands of members mainly targeting inner city youth so in giving young younger, you know, men and women, primarily boys.


paulmartinelli: Who could either go the way of the gang but if steered in the right direction could take that energy that street smart and have them do something good rather than bad and.


paulmartinelli: You know, as you mentioned, I was a high school dropout my life was going in the wrong direction, and I was picking up speed.


paulmartinelli: I had been in martial arts, for a long time and date, the guardian angels in Pittsburgh came into work out at my dojo and that’s how I met them I instantly thought I want to do that.


paulmartinelli: and began to patrol cities, the city of Pittsburgh, and then, when I was 17 after failing out of school, I went on the road with curtis and started guardian angel chapters in Chicago and minneapolis and.


paulmartinelli: All through New York and Florida and Atlanta in Texas, and it was just a great experience to be able to go out and.


paulmartinelli: serve people, and you know grow in confidence it’s one of the ways that I overcame my stuttering problem was I had to do news, you know interviews and radio interviews so yeah.


David Horsager: Can you tell us a story, and we, you know we haven’t planned all this ahead of time we’re having a conversation with them, I.


David Horsager: Might for me, and it was an amazing person that’s just all about not only transforming your own life, but others, can you tell me a story about someone in that that you, you saw change because of the guardian angels.


paulmartinelli: Oh yeah I mean, I think the biggest impact we had was in our own lives to see you know, I was, I was often.


paulmartinelli: You, the minority in the group, you know, I was, I was headquarters at 126 and lexington and Harlem above the Amsterdam news building and that was where my headquarters was we called it for the patchy and and then I was spent time in cabrini green.


paulmartinelli: in Chicago and Robert Taylor homes.


paulmartinelli: I was in.


paulmartinelli: herndon homes in Atlanta, where the Atlanta child can leaves work and the biggest transformation, I saw were from our Members right young inner city youth.


paulmartinelli: Who who really, really wanted to do good I think most people do David I think most people are good people and if given if just given direction and influence.


paulmartinelli: They will they will do the right thing, and so I saw a young person at a young person, myself included, transformed.


paulmartinelli: And and gain confidence and a sense of self worth that you otherwise wouldn’t get there’s something really powerful that, when all of a sudden you’re being recognized for doing something good, whereas most of us were the kids that were getting in trouble for doing something.


David Horsager: And you’ve taken that from where you were, and now you know, President the john Maxwell team, you were and all the work you do just in your own organization now empowered living coaching mentoring speaking.


David Horsager: What does it take to transform as a person, you know we at least, I see a lot of people that.


David Horsager: In fact, I used to ask audiences when we do at our executive trusted events, how many of you want to change a habit.


David Horsager: How many everybody wants to do i’d say now how many have ever changed a difficult habit it’s a habit from from smoking to losing 25 pounds or more to you know some a signal.


David Horsager: Like 6% almost nobody actually has changed a habit how How can people actually do it, how can they actually change from from this whether it’s a habit or a.


David Horsager: You know way they’ve always been a mind shift, but how do they actually change people go to conferences, all the time they go to all kinds of things to hear a podcasting I want to Jay yes that’s gonna be me, you know and then January 2 comes right.


paulmartinelli: Oh yeah.


paulmartinelli: I laugh because January seconds my birthday, I always say it’s the worst birthday, because you know, on that day, you know, everybody quit smoking quit drinking quit eating good doing all the kinds of stuff January 3 would be a great birthday, because that’s when they start again right.


Right.


paulmartinelli: But they nobody’s eating the cake, nobody wants to go to dinner nobody wants to cheers.


David Horsager: bye I gotta jump in there, because my birthday is January 1.


Okay.


David Horsager: i’m a new year’s baby so.


David Horsager: There we go 12121, of the one two punch today.


paulmartinelli: Right, we were both good from the taxes.


David Horsager: Although my dad said he lost so much money and farming that year, I did he didn’t need the tax benefit so.


paulmartinelli: You know here here’s here’s what I here’s what I kind of realizing and believe and know for myself and other people.


paulmartinelli: When we think of what a habit is I think that’s that’s important is is you know habit people saying lab is a behavior and habit is is is not a behavior it’s an expression of a belief.


paulmartinelli: it’s an expression of a composite made of three things are self identity or self image right the image that we hold ourselves and believe other people see in us.


paulmartinelli: it’s our self esteem our personal self regard how I value me and how I believe other people value me they can positive that forms as a self identity or self belief.


paulmartinelli: And we never outperform our own self belief, there was a worker Dr Maxwell multiple the book psycho cybernetics and so a habit is just an expression of an internal belief.


paulmartinelli: And I have always found that the starting point of transformation personal transformation has to be that the person must see themselves complete.


paulmartinelli: And whole in relation to that which they want to change if the starting point is is that i’m broken or I need fixed or and somehow i’m inadequate.


paulmartinelli: or i’m incomplete or something new needs to be added me, in other words, if I don’t see myself as fully resourced, before I begin the likelihood of me.


paulmartinelli: Being able to change is very slim to none, because what I will do is I will look at external conditions and circumstances and try to change from the outside.


paulmartinelli: And it doesn’t work transformation is an inside game it’s a you and you deal it starts with you.


paulmartinelli: And so I think the starting belief is really critical things don’t end well they start badly right, and so, if the starting belief is that i’m fully resourced.


paulmartinelli: that it would be impossible for me to be sourced with the awareness of this idea to change without being fully resourced from that same source that I got the idea to change.


paulmartinelli: It would be impossible for us to be able to have that idea and not be able to manifest it in our lives, so we are fully resource it’s about being able to get congruency in alignment with.


paulmartinelli: who we are, who we see ourselves as you know, who am I, you know you know who we are and who’s we are, and then the beliefs, that would support.


paulmartinelli: The expression of the behavior for that habit belief drives behavior period, end of story if you’re going to make a sustained period of time.


David Horsager: it’s so true we you know, I think.


David Horsager: Bernie brown made it more famous you got to belong first, then you believe, then you behave you know belief comes first, but even I remember you know basic psychology thoughts lead to disastrous lead to actions that always starts over here thoughts, it always starts.


David Horsager: Thinking about as a as a as a man think of the result woman think so, are they you know that we’re you know.


David Horsager: we’ve got to change our thinking to change their behaviors first So how do, how do we do that.


paulmartinelli: yeah I think I think there are several there are several great ways one is get around good people.


paulmartinelli: You know, you know I had an opportunity to do the last interview with Charlie tremendous Jones.


paulmartinelli: And, of course, he shared his you know his his favorite and most famous quote of you know you you your life is the sum total of the composite of the people you you spend time with the books you read the seminars you attend and so.


David Horsager: You know, being I will never forget, when he you know his.


David Horsager: hugging kiss.


David Horsager: Right.


paulmartinelli: He has got a world.


David Horsager: you’ll never forget that, I mean he everybody your tremendous and a hug and kiss that is unforgettable.


paulmartinelli: yeah yeah it’s a shame that so many so many people who are now kind of entering in personal growth in human potential movement missed him right.


paulmartinelli: said, you know many, many, many will miss sick but Charlie tremendous Jones was was a literal giant, but he was a giant and in this idea.


paulmartinelli: But I think you know, being part of this Community right being part of the you know trusted Leader Community so who who your around with I think also you know.


paulmartinelli: You know observational thinking you know what watching what other people do.


paulmartinelli: Really really become a student of human potential and because success does leave clues.


David Horsager: So, how would I do that, how would I do that read a book well how would I, how would I observe.


paulmartinelli: yeah I think I think you know proximity is power, so I think you can do whatever you can do to get as much proximity if the starting point of your proximity is a book get the book.


paulmartinelli: You know I have traveled i’ve traveled all over the world to be able to find you know, a speaker and i’d go anywhere if I could hear a speaker if that speaker had something that I wanted that that speaker and results that I wanted, I would go.


paulmartinelli: You volunteer you put yourself in proximity, most of the people that we would want to be around.


paulmartinelli: Have charities that they are very close to, so we can we, we may not be able to get in the front door of working with their business.


paulmartinelli: But if we were to work in the back door by going into a charity that they love our cause that they love and making a substantial impact there that would lead to an introduction you know that’s how I got to meet.


paulmartinelli: Rich the boss, you know, for me, I mean you talk about you know, a giant, and it really sucks I mean if you want to model someone I mean he was a great one, and you know so so beat being able, being able to.


paulmartinelli: Create that proximity, so if it starts with the book it’s it’s a book if it’s watching their biography then that’s what you do you do whatever you can do you have to be in the relentless pursuit of of getting proximity.


David Horsager: So you know there’s a couple of questions here, because you have created a Community empowered living community.


David Horsager: Where people get around great people and you encourage just tell us a glimpse about what that’s like and how that Community I think people are craving community and if they you know get the right Community they become better because of it right.


David Horsager: So, give us a glimpse of your why you started that and now you know 1.8 million people are a part of it or more probably today, but you know the impact of that community and why even started in the first place.


paulmartinelli: yeah the Community is growing at a 2.3 million people, and it is a, it is a community of tribes, so it is you know, there are the page the Community.


paulmartinelli: started as a Facebook page years and years and years ago, even before there were ads on Facebook, when you could really grow a page, you know now it’s now it’s difficult in social media to really grow a platform.


paulmartinelli: And so that was one of the advantages of you know of the Community was it was an early adopter you know.


paulmartinelli: Seeing seeing this idea of Community and tribes before seth godin wrote the book tribes right.


paulmartinelli: And before the concept was there.


David Horsager: was so first, why did you do it.


David Horsager: Why did you create that Community and then and what now are people getting out what Why are people still coming in it’s growing immensely.


paulmartinelli: For me, I think the reason I started is because.


paulmartinelli: Community was so powerful to me when I was in the guardian angels, it was so powerful, for me, when I was in the dojo and the community within just my my karate association.


paulmartinelli: It was really into when I looked back at my life when was when was when was Paul at his best IT wasn’t when I was alone right, it was when I was with other people and and it was also when I was lifting other people up.


paulmartinelli: You know I always say you know i’m a really good number two so here’s number two to curtis Lee well, I was number two to Bob proctor I was number two to to john Maxwell right.


paulmartinelli: i’m a really good and does number two is les brown i’m a really good number two and of helping other people.


paulmartinelli: You know, get their agenda express and helping you know, helping other people, I think, is what most of us, you know, most of the people who, who are.


paulmartinelli: Probably in your audience would identify themselves as an agent of change right somebody wants to make a difference maker in the lives of other people.


paulmartinelli: they’re not doing that for themselves they’re doing it because at some level they really believe in this idea of being of service to other people and so.


paulmartinelli: I realized that I had you know I had, I had a bigger platform than most people have, and I wanted to give that platform and give people who otherwise would never get a shot a shot and so that’s why I started it.


David Horsager: And what’s that what’s there to keep people I mean it keeps growing what how do they connect like you know you see lots of people trying to.


David Horsager: build social communities and whatever, but it doesn’t last that somehow this one like people there’s a generous feeling there’s a connection there’s the give like what are just a couple of things that are happening there that just keep building community and impact.


paulmartinelli: I think you’ve got a model what you want, seen right.


paulmartinelli: And so you know, one of my one of my life principles is tithing I live my life by it, I talked about it, I teach on it.


David Horsager: I you know I.


paulmartinelli: unabashedly I don’t hide from it.


paulmartinelli: I don’t hide that i’m a person of faith but I don’t I don’t beat people up about it, but I model that, and you know we’ve been able to.


paulmartinelli: really create a big impact when you’ve got that many people if everybody, you know the old you know if everybody gave five bucks we could do something here, you know.


paulmartinelli: And so I was on I was on a trip a leadership development program in Paraguay with john Maxwell and ran across two young kids than 23 years old, and they were 3D printing hands for kids like hank like arms.


paulmartinelli: Very good.


paulmartinelli: And they could print an functional arm for 100 bucks in about two days so Kim would come in they’d measures two days later, the kids running around with with a hand.


paulmartinelli: And thinking for 100 bucks right, so you know I took $50,000 donated it, but then didn’t match with the Community and said, you know i’ll match the first $50,000 and I don’t know, I think we raised close to $200,000 think of think of the just think of the change just you know it’s a hand.


David Horsager: yeah wow.


paulmartinelli: spend, spend the next five hours with your right dominant hand in your pocket and see how how the day goes right and then imagine pulling it out that’s freedom right yeah.


paulmartinelli: No, I think, because we model that in the Community and and we don’t have lots of rules in the Community.


paulmartinelli: And you know you don’t have to you don’t have to sneak ugly promote yourself if you’ve got something you want to promote the scheduled time and we give you the platform for 15 minutes.


paulmartinelli: You know, sell whatever you want, and when we don’t we you know we don’t do affiliates we’re not an affiliate for any of them.


paulmartinelli: So as long look as long as it’s, something that would add value to people, you know, is an alignment with you know our values, you know, is an integrity and we know that you’re going to deliver on it will give you the slot.


David Horsager: mm hmm tell me about this, you know I know you’re known for kind of a.


David Horsager: High Level mastermind group and way that you help people transform over the course of a year and i’m just interested in how people change, you know that’s all we’re about is trying to create.


David Horsager: more trust in the world more higher trust leaders higher trust cultures higher trust global governments are trying to you know.


David Horsager: Be world changers for good, but you have a way you do it, you take leaders through a process, what does that look like, as much as you can share in a moment or two.


paulmartinelli: Sure, it is a year long program because transformation isn’t an event, you know you know that’s it’s a process it’s all really about, if you think about it.


paulmartinelli: From the filter trust it’s about learning to trust yourself that I truly believe that you know the answer is really within us.


paulmartinelli: That you know if we seek ask a knock and look at the kingdom within us it’s all there for us, and so it starts with a two day retreat at my home with about 15 people.


paulmartinelli: And then each person is assigned to coach where their their coach two times two times a month for a whole year, a group meeting once a month, and then a one on one with me.


paulmartinelli: And it’s about understanding our our potential code our model, each one of us has a unique model about how we create a navigate life to create achievement and success.


paulmartinelli: that’s based on a learn model all learning models are based on our awareness our belief in our understanding and application of the principles within the model.


paulmartinelli: And so we’ve kind of taken what call young said, where he said into you make the unconscious conscious that direction, like and you call it fate we’ve kind of taken that approach, where.


paulmartinelli: We guide people through a interactive process where they can look back at their life tweet out those times, where they’ve been successful and then identify you know.


paulmartinelli: What was their model what was what was their motivation, where they moving towards or away from something where they be in a decider or a condenser.


paulmartinelli: Where they when they look at distinctions of sorting were they looking for similarities differences or exclusions, how do they how do they get what is that thinking process.


paulmartinelli: And once they realize that they actually do have a habit of thinking process, and if they can tweet that out, they can see well this code works when I apply this.


paulmartinelli: It works and then it’s about well, then why are you playing small and that’s true if you knew it would work then then let’s let’s dream bigger.


David Horsager: What I love about this is you’re doing it in Community so just back to.


David Horsager: You know guardian angels to to everything in life, like we we say it often you know if you’re doing leadership alone you’re doing it wrong, I mean we need to be together, we need to be.


David Horsager: Where and better things happen doesn’t mean we don’t need individual coaching or help or whatever our coaching Community i’m so proud of it around the world, these these coaches make each other certified trusted coaches, they make each other better, they make their.


David Horsager: Leaders better, but a big part of that is because of togetherness right because.


David Horsager: We can sharpen each other.


paulmartinelli: And you know look I think i’ve built the largest coaching certification program in the world, fair to say, I think your coaches are probably the most resource to coaches you’re going to find in terms of if a if a if a coach needs to be fully equipped and resource right.


paulmartinelli: From soup to NUTS right from soup from beginning to end, I had an opportunity to really look at your program and, as I told you, I mean blown away by by far there isn’t another program that has a richness of resources that that are.


paulmartinelli: That are, I want to say evidence let’s call it evidence base I don’t wanna say science base but let’s say evidence based right, and I think that’s that’s what that’s what establishes the trust right is that you know, trust and verify and your program has all of that.


David Horsager: Thank you well we’re passionate about it that’s for sure and that’s partly because of that not just evidence, but doing the ongoing research, I remember.


David Horsager: You know now I don’t have to convince people so much, but 20 years ago and I started that Grad work, it was like.


David Horsager: Oh trust just a soft skill doesn’t really affect the bottom line that groundwork is what tipped it for people that saw the M and N and actually tip my heart and mind to see the impact of trust you know so.


David Horsager: Tell tell me how does you know, a big word for you is empowerment big word for us is trust they go together, how do you see it.


paulmartinelli: yeah absolutely I don’t really know that you could ever live an empowered life.


paulmartinelli: Without trusting yourself and without without people trusting you at the end of the day, you know.


paulmartinelli: If everything is sales right you talk to a salesperson they’ll say everything in sales if they talked to a leader they’ll say everything is leadership, but it all boils down to trust doesn’t it.


David Horsager: I mean absolutely and empowerment.


David Horsager: Or you know, I think, trusting yourself, you know we believe and know that the the the truth of love your neighbors yourself right which kind of this thing of what if you know people who don’t love themselves at all, they have a hard time loving others well.


David Horsager: And that’s the same with trust.


David Horsager: If you don’t trust yourself at all, you have a hard time building in teams and others, you know it’s like I mean.


David Horsager: I don’t share this very often but I made this commitment when I was losing the 50 pounds in five months about I don’t know 10 years ago I said to my team, if I don’t give you.


David Horsager: If I don’t make it there, you know to this my high school weight by May 1 i’ll give you 2500 bucks you know each and and and of course I knew.


paulmartinelli: My biggest problem wasn’t.


David Horsager: paying the check the biggest problem is I said it and committed to it, and if I don’t get there i’m going to stop trusting myself as much because I made a commitment and didn’t keep it right so anyway, we we want to be leaders that empower others that that do trust themselves.


David Horsager: And we want to be leaders that.


David Horsager: empower others, so they can build trust in their teams and communities and everything everything else I think something interesting you as a leader and you’ve led multimillion dollar several multimillion dollar organizations.


David Horsager: What about you, what about what habits, we find that you know.


David Horsager: least high trust leaders they’re leading themselves, and you know I think Socrates said you don’t lead yourself well it’s hard to lead others or know yourself right he said no yourself so.


David Horsager: We know ourselves, we build trust with ourselves we’re able to lead others well what kind of routines or habits, do you have to lead yourself, while you’re certainly leading a whole lot of others, what do you do is a routines or daily things that you do to lead yourself well.


paulmartinelli: yeah well, thank you, I think there’s probably some big rocks there right I I make a commitment to myself to work out every single day 30 minutes a day you know serious sweat right.


paulmartinelli: and


David Horsager: What do you do I want to come back to other teams, but what do you do because.


David Horsager: Everyone says, I believe in work out, I believe, an exercise but oh I just don’t have time so I don’t really know you know what do you do, how do you make that happen.


paulmartinelli: I have in my in my home, I have an escalator stairs machine like a stairmaster machine, but you know it only goes up.


paulmartinelli: yeah my level level 12 to 15 every day for 30 minutes a day.


David Horsager: you’re not going down I like yeah.


paulmartinelli: You burn you.


paulmartinelli: burn 500 calories in 30 minutes is most effective exercise, you can do and what the reason I choose that exercise is to pre code I try i’m on the road, probably 180 days a year so.


paulmartinelli: in hotels, you know, everybody everybody’s at the gym nobody’s in the stairwell, especially in America nobody’s in stairwell, and so I could I could easily get safe, clean quiet.


paulmartinelli: You know temperature control it’s always cold in the stairwell and up and down and up and down and up and down and i’m done in 30 minutes and you get the best workout of your life.


David Horsager: This is amazing to me because i’m just reading the book by jj virgin she’s a celebrity fitness coach and done all these things she said exactly the same thing to me this week.


David Horsager: stair step stair steps stair step so.


David Horsager: This is a this is fascinating.


paulmartinelli: yeah well, I made a similar columns I lost 65 pounds five years ago and it kept it off.


paulmartinelli: But it did daily commitment right the compounding effect for consistency so so there’s that i’m coached i’ve had the same coach for 10 years and i’m coached every single month so i’ve got somebody who and.


paulmartinelli: I don’t ever bring like you know, an agenda to my to the session, the agenda is one thing one thing only challenge my thinking.


paulmartinelli: JASMINE thinking so I just I just, I just wanted, you know because I, you know I don’t have I don’t have like probably much like you know if you’re the boss if you’re the leader, you know.


paulmartinelli: You don’t have people that necessarily really challenge your thinking or stretch your thinking so I pay somebody to do that, I pay them well and they’ve been with me for 10 years, so they know my bs right they know my beliefs.


paulmartinelli: My beliefs, we know where I limitations are.


paulmartinelli: So there’s that and yeah I mentioned tithing as a practice, you know visualizing praying talking to myself.


paulmartinelli: You know daily.


David Horsager: Tell me about prayer you’re a man of faith tell.


David Horsager: me about prayer for you.


paulmartinelli: yeah so prayer for me is.


paulmartinelli: It is anywhere and everywhere, when I get when I when I get time.


paulmartinelli: alone and and I, and I get time alone every single day, so in between, you know calls, you know I usually have a 10 minute window, that is a fantastic time.


paulmartinelli: And really for me prayer I always viewed prayer as the sacred communication between the finite mind a man in the mind of God, and so it is, it is a communication sometimes i’m talking and asking and sometimes i’m listening.


paulmartinelli: And it’s usually best when I listened.


paulmartinelli: And so I i’ve learned to pray and questions you know you know what what what do I need to know now what am I missing what would make me a better person.


paulmartinelli: How can I serve at a higher level, you know where where, am I going wrong in it like a moral code, not just like a company with this like where, am I going on what am I what am I blind to.


paulmartinelli: So I have a lesson I teach in the process, I use called authentic journaling so it’s just my own model I came up with where I where instead of journaling.


paulmartinelli: i’m transcribing what i’m thinking so I start with a with a big question and then I just write any thought that comes in my mind, sometimes the thought is you know don’t forget to do the laundry don’t forget to.


paulmartinelli: You know, get gas in the car and I write until those jumping monkeys kind of get out of my soul, I quiet that part of my mind down.


paulmartinelli: And then you know God steps in right, and you know when you make space, I always say you can’t make it happen, but you can make it welcome so writing is that is that space for me.


David Horsager: You know wasn’t it, I think, was Mother Teresa on Larry King Larry King asked you know what’s what’s prayer what’s what are you doing you pray and I think she said she said, well, I listen to, well then what’s God do he listens.


David Horsager: Right, so I think I interesting that was just talking, I mean just one hour ago talking to a horse schmaltzy the founder of.


David Horsager: ritz carlton and now he’s you know created one of the most luxurious different capella the one of those luxuries hotel brands in the world and just a fascinating amazing.


David Horsager: gentleman as well, but he had a real call back to morality, think about how do we like we don’t people in the world don’t think about morals there, we have a divided world we can’t listen and we don’t think and we don’t think about the moral impact of you know decision so that was.


David Horsager: A part time.


paulmartinelli: yeah how fascinating.


David Horsager: fascinating that you know you and he built his whole real service on on thinking about others really loving others that’s the whole bill of ritz carlton brand is is how do I love them.


paulmartinelli: I mean a ritz carlton home I bought I bought a.


paulmartinelli: Rich call home and then to like everything with rich rich girl is the best leg brand in the world, I mean, for that reason, you can trust it right its integrity it’s you know.


David Horsager: exactly right well, you have been very generous with our audience and every one listening and I am grateful that you’ve been generous friend to me and i’m grateful for that it’s time for a quick lightning round quick answers and.


David Horsager: let’s let’s go for it right now, what is your favorite book or resource Paul.


paulmartinelli: Thinking grow rich by Napoleon hill.


paulmartinelli: yeah but reading reading this book and this copy this book for 25 years.


David Horsager: If you can lead to become.


David Horsager: Go ahead.


paulmartinelli: I read it once a year, I teach it and i’m in the middle of teaching it for free right I teach it for free every year.


paulmartinelli: And it changed my life.


David Horsager: And it’s it’s, by the way.


David Horsager: For those of you that are just listening by podcast Paul was holding it up.


David Horsager: it’s ripped to shreds there’s no binding anymore, he just got it can basically barely held together but give everybody one.


David Horsager: Three sentence paragraph on the impact of that book.


paulmartinelli: I went from high school dropout janitor earning $20,000 a year when Patrick he gave me the book three years later I was a millionaire.


paulmartinelli: And I followed the process and the principal he says in the book there’s a secret in the book if you can apply the secret to your life can have anything you want, and the secret is is to find what you.


paulmartinelli: want what you desire and to make it an all consuming obsession.


paulmartinelli: And all consumed you can’t want wish you know it, not even a burning desire that’s not enough it’s got to be an all consuming obsession you became you became obsessed with the word trust.


David Horsager: yep.


paulmartinelli: And I still on there you go.


David Horsager: And here we go exactly what’s the best best piece of advice you’ve got so much, but what’s the best piece of advice for trusted leaders.


paulmartinelli: um I heard john Maxwell tell rush limbaugh this, I was in a room when we were buying a million and a half dollars worth of advertising off rush and rush asked john what’s what’s one thing and john said never underestimate the compounding effect of consistency.


David Horsager: And there we go and that’s the final pillar in the pillar framework eight pillars of trust your trusted for whatever you do consistently you’re late all the time i’ll trust you to be late.


David Horsager: You love people all the time.


David Horsager: I trust you love people you know right love it consistency hey Paul you’ve had an amazing life you’ve affected a lot of people and impacted a lot for good what’s one thing left to maybe it’s bucket list, maybe it’s just a hope for the future.


paulmartinelli: yeah I want to really take everything that i’ve done and create kind of a a a micro lab where I could really take.


paulmartinelli: Whether it’s a Community or a neighborhood or a school i’ve been fascinated recently with these people who have.


paulmartinelli: taken over a neighborhood or a school and said i’m going to commit my life for someone think everybody, I know, all my resources and i’m going to create a change and i’ve never done that, like.


paulmartinelli: From now that i’m not that i’m successful and wealthy and now I can do something I haven’t done that yet, and that is my bucket list is to find a neighborhood of school.


paulmartinelli: i’m not clear on what it is, but I know the feeling ton of it and we.


David Horsager: Talk about it later i’ve got some ideas of where you might want to do that.


paulmartinelli: But.


David Horsager: You know, I was just talking to somebody about the transformation that happened in Detroit, of course, a lot of our work in in East Africa there’s a.


David Horsager: Really fun transformation happening in certain places there, but that is wonderful love it you’ll find a whole lot of ways to connect with Paul mark Nelly in the show notes, but tell us just verbally, where is the best place to connect with you.


paulmartinelli: You go to just stop all my le.net Paul Martin le.net is my website and, all things are there yeah.


David Horsager: Perfect this has been a gift, we have one more question the final question.


David Horsager: Unless there’s something else you really want to hear i’m open people can reach out to you.


David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.


paulmartinelli: You know I, I would say, in the last decades the Leader that’s impacted me the most has been john Maxwell.


paulmartinelli: And i’ve had an opportunity, as his business partners his friend to be you know, in the audience with all the other thousand fans and i’ve been able to be in the back of the car.


paulmartinelli: i’ve been able to be you know at the luggage carousel i’ve been able to be you know, in the green room and he’s he’s the real deal and he walks his talk and so, for me, john john would be.


David Horsager: You know I just have to affirm that it was a transformational conversation we got sued together at a banquet a couple years ago it changed the way we created our coaching certification and business that you talked.


David Horsager: spoke highly of, and that was a moment of change, for how are we going to you know.


David Horsager: Certified coaches, so that they can impact others and help them impact the root cause the real issues, the challenges in a way that is built totally an abundance thinking you got everything.


David Horsager: You had access to everything, and that was, by the way, a tipping point was a conversation with john and of course we’re especially grateful that he.


David Horsager: endorsed the book on the cover and the new trusted leader book, but I can’t affirm that more and I just um yeah I agree.


David Horsager: Paul Martin le what a treat to be with you can’t wait to be together again I hope in person before along, but thank you, thank you, thank you, thanks for sharing your insights your wisdom.


David Horsager: there’s so much here we’re going to put it in some great notes and pull up the highlights, you know where you can all find out more, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 29: Dave Cornell on Why You Should Be Courageous But NOT Fearless

In this episode, David sits down with Dave Cornell, Founder of Cultivate Courage, LLC, Speaker, Coach, and Trainer, to discuss why you should be courageous but NOT fearless.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Dave’s Bio:
Dave is the founder of Cultivate Courage, LLC. Dave’s business is focused on three areas; Speaking, Coaching and Training. Dave’s powerful presentation, Cultivate Courage, focuses on fear, change and courage and how they affect individuals and organizations, is well received by audiences and has been a launching pad for performance development and personal improvement. His training focuses on the DISC behavioral profile, effective communication and conflict resolution. Dave also serves as the Senior Consultant with David Horsager’s Trust Edge Leadership Institute. Dave and his wife, Amy, have been married for 39 years. They immensely enjoy time with their two grown daughters, son-in-law and four grandchildren. He also enjoys golf, basketball, and anything with a comedic bent.

Dave’s Links:
Website: http://cultivatecourage.com/
“Cultivate Courage” by Dave Cornell: https://amzn.to/3bjQjrQ
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cultivatecourage
Twitter: https://twitter.com/cultivatecourag
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ddcornell/

Key Quotes:
1. “Reading is one of the things I’ve embraced.”
2. “Reading and exercise are huge.”
3. “I love to help people have ah-ha moments.”
4. “I love helping people get better.”
5. “It’s important to ask open ended questions.”
6. “So much of what we do in our lives are defaults. We just act and react because that’s the way we’ve always done.”
7. “Anytime we step out, we grow.”
8. “Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.” – John Wayne
9. “This is not about becoming fearless.”
10. “If we strive to become fearless we’re never going to do anything.”
11. “It’s about recognizing the need to be courageous.”
12. “Never underestimate the value of a crisis.”
13. “Courage is about taking steps, not knowing what the second step is going to be.”
14. “Courage is stepping into our fear not knowing what’s next.”
15. “This irrational fear that holds us back is selfish.”
16. “You need to visit with trusted people.”
17. “When we live in fear, it holds us captive.”
18. “One of the simple steps in this process is recognizing the power of the word maybe.”
19. “It’s all about the mindset.”
20. “A lot of the reason that people don’t want to give deadlines is because then they have to hold people accountable.”
21. “Fear calls us to be spectators, courage calls us to get in the game.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Dream Big” by Bob Goff: https://amzn.to/33BhZUw
“The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” by Patrick Lencioni: https://amzn.to/3ogv1Rf
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3tAnUnI
“The One Year Uncommon Life Daily Challenge” by Tony Dungy: https://amzn.to/3f9SS0t
“Cultivate Courage” by Dave Cornell: https://amzn.to/3bjQjrQ
Top 20 Training: https://top20training.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager, we have a special guest today. He’s a dear friend of mine. He’s been a senior trust edge consultant, he’s


David Horsager: created his own business all around courage, he’s paid played professional basketball in Europe. He’s a grandfather of husband and he’s a friend and really an influencer of many. Thank you so much for being on today. Dave Cornell.


Dave Cornell: David, it is such an honor and pleasure to be with you. I am so looking forward to our conversation today.


David Horsager: Likewise, I am, this is going to be super fun and before the end of the day, we’re going to look at something very specific


David Horsager: Around courage and how you can be a more courageous leader. And certainly, you know, people often ask me,


David Horsager: As far as trust is a you talk about those seeds that came out of the research, those, those eight sees those eight pillars of trust, if there’s another. See, what would it be and I said immediately, it would be courage it takes courage.


David Horsager: To build trust often and just to lead well and be a trusted leader. So we’re going to jump into that, but before we do a look. Let’s let people know you a little bit. Tell us three things that we should know about Dave Cornell.


Dave Cornell: Wow, three things that you should know about me is I guess I’m a family guy that I think is one, first and foremost, one of the things that I love.


Dave Cornell: I’m a husband of my wife, Amy. We’ve got two daughters Sarah and Caitlin our son in law Tyler and then we’ve got four grandkids Halle Josiah Troy and Theo.


Dave Cornell: And they are all the the joys and the loves of my life. I am a believer. I’m a Christian. And that first and foremost is really what guides me and


Dave Cornell: Directs my paths in everything that I do and then I’m, I’m a big sports fan and I’m a guy that loves to laugh. I’m kind of a humor snob. I’ll say.


Dave Cornell: It takes a lot to make me laugh and and but I I love to laugh. And so I think those are I think I might have given you, for there, but hopefully that’s okay.


David Horsager: That’s good you are, and you’re a fun guy and what people don’t know about you, and I’ve said this often I think he’s the best leadership coach in the country and


David Horsager: Dave Cornell. In fact, we were just talking about me and Dave, you still work with us. And even though you run your own business and you still do.


David Horsager: For our clients help solve some of the biggest trust challenges they have and you in fact just yesterday, we got a sincere testimonial from the dean of a widely known.


David Horsager: Big prestigious university in the United States, a just a testimonial of the work you’ve done with some of their senior leaders that have been immensely impactful and of course you’ve been on


David Horsager: Many of our projects. A lot of our work with our enterprise trust index, a big project with a global


David Horsager: Pharmaceutical that just had a merger and is working on building trust and you’ve been intimately involved in that trust edge product and you but


David Horsager: You know, I could talk about all these projects I’ve seen the testimonials, which is why we we keep meeting you and wanting you to be on these products, but you’ve been a friend and I’m proud of that and grateful for that. And your coaching has made me better so


David Horsager: You know, we talked about trust and and we talked about being a trusted leader.


David Horsager: And a lot of times that starts with our own habits. These little things we do. What are some things you kind of make sure you do


David Horsager: You know you a seasoned leader. You’ve been a big companies, you’ve created your own company or an entrepreneur, but what what are the things you do to to be a high trust leader every day.


Dave Cornell: You know, I think when it comes to habits reading is one of the, one of the things that I’ve really embraced over the last several years, I’ve always been a


Dave Cornell: Reader, but really have embraced it these last several years, and looking for books that


Dave Cornell: That challenge me that helped me to grow and I’m there’s some people that I love to read Bob golf is one of the guys that I love to read Patrick len Sione is another one mark Batson Tony Dungy, those are some of my favorite authors that


Dave Cornell: That their, their books that are fun to read, but they also challenge me and they helped me to grow.


Dave Cornell: One thing I haven’t done as well as I would like to over the last several years, but I’m getting into it more and more now is exercise and I am I just got back a little bit ago from


Dave Cornell: A two and a half mile walk. We’re at about 30 degrees here right now up in Fergus Falls, Minnesota, but to get outside and get some exercise and some fresh air.


Dave Cornell: Really clears my mind and helps me to process the things that I’m reading process, the people that I’m coaching and and so those I think really are two of the habits that have been very helpful for me reading an exercise are huge.


David Horsager: Funny about the walking. I said this on a different episode but you know when I lost the 52 pounds in five and a half months about a decade ago and I’ve kept most of it off.


David Horsager: One person inspired me was an executive coach that said the best exercise for you, David will be actually walking


David Horsager: Not, you know, a lot of building the best exercises swimming, and I certainly like to swim now and do triathlons some of these kind of things but


David Horsager: Back then he’s like, start by walking and walking with weights, specifically, he believes cross country skiing is the best exercise. There is even though he was the most highly decorated UCLA swim coach for


David Horsager: You know, like 56 national champions something crazy like that. He said, walking. Walking with weights, getting the weight above your heart so


David Horsager: I was one of those crazy guys for a long time that look walked around with weights above my, you know, but pumping little, little 510 pound weights, but walking is so great a forever activities. Certainly.


Dave Cornell: Well thank you David for that tip on on with the weights, because that’s something I’m not doing and can incorporate very easily.


David Horsager: Well, he talked about 60% more a heart health by just getting away even your hand above your heart so


David Horsager: Interesting idea he recommends five pound weights. I’ve gotten up to where I like to do 10 or eight, but, um, you know, I can go quite a while that way. And I do some different things with them than my switch it up with


David Horsager: My hands but but anyway, it’s a good idea and he made a big impact on my


David Horsager: Life change.


Dave Cornell: Yeah.


David Horsager: You know, living healthier for sure. So love that, you know, my parents 91 dad’s 91 know up on the farm. But they go, what I call them and mom will set you know every, every morning I mama. Yep. I just got back from my four and a half mile walk


David Horsager: Yeah. Well, I just got back from my two and half mile walk, you know, so it seems to work for people


David Horsager: Yeah. Anyways, certainly, so


David Horsager: Yeah, let’s go to that reading you know sometimes I have the quote and in speeches where at least at one point when I did the research or saw the research, you know, the average hours.


David Horsager: A person who watches TV annually, which is usually kind of not that great of input 1200 and 87 annually average number of books and American reads in their lifetime, at least over 200 pages where it’s not just a kid book when you’re putting the kids the night night, you know, was one


David Horsager: Every after their after their after their formal education was done whether that was I school degree or PhD and


David Horsager: You know that that reading that’s can be such good input. The late famous Charlie Jones said you’re gonna be the exact same person today.


David Horsager: In five years as you are today except for the people you surround yourself with the books you read, so


David Horsager: There’s other ways to get input electronically today but books are certainly one of the best thought out, you know, valuable places to gain gain insight and we’re going to get into the book that you’ve written, but


David Horsager: Tell us about when you know that habits hard for people because it’s not a neat. You don’t have to do it, you have to eat, you have to sleep.


David Horsager: When do you carve out time in your busy schedule as an entrepreneur consultant, a grandparent. And when you when you carve out time to do it. What’s the discipline there.


Dave Cornell: You know I’m fortunate to be part of a mastermind group every Wednesday morning where we go through a different book every month. And so it’s a book that’s selected for our group, there’s


Dave Cornell: Six to eight of us, depending on on the Wednesday night, everybody’s always able to join us.


Dave Cornell: But that has been a great discipline for me, knowing that we’re going to discuss


Dave Cornell: Whatever chapters were assigned for that week. And so it’s a matter for me probably three or four nights a week where I’ll just sit down in the living room.


Dave Cornell: And start reading my book and I’ll depending on how much time I’ll have, but it’s it’s just, again, it’s my wife and I were empty nesters. And so we’ve got time in these coven times in particular.


Dave Cornell: Rather than turning on the TV. And I’m not saying that I never do that. I do. But I always try to carve out, you know, some time three or four nights a week to read


David Horsager: I love it. That also speaks to accountability and you and I both have seen the same statistic, which if you have a goal you have 10% chance of accomplishing


David Horsager: If you have a goal with accountability of 95% chance of accomplishing it you’ve got that accountability built in every week to get


David Horsager: Better and


David Horsager: I love that. And it you even I’m sure the value goes even up because you discuss it.


Dave Cornell: Oh, without question, and it’s it’s with people who obviously are looking at the book from their perspectives, so they they


Dave Cornell: share insights with me. Maybe that I didn’t pick up and that discussion, as you mentioned, David is so huge in in helping us to build each other up and encourage each other up and and to pick up insights that maybe we missed


David Horsager: Love it. What motivates you. These days to do the work you’re doing.


Dave Cornell: Wow, that’s an interesting question and and it goes back, you know, we talked before about the coaching. One of the things that I love to do in my work is I help. I love to help people have aha moments.


Dave Cornell: And in the coaching that we do around the trust edge book, there are people that that as I go into the coaching with them and ask them questions.


Dave Cornell: It has happened. Virtually every time, or I get people to go, wow. I’d never thought of that before and I love helping people.


Dave Cornell: Get better. And for me that’s what I’m passionate about and when, when people can start to see things in a different way.


Dave Cornell: That’s what drives me and what what motivates me is, is to help people to get better and to help people help people to see things in a different way and to overcome things that they may be thought that they could never overcome.


David Horsager: What does that look like what’s, what’s it, what is it to be a great coach, because, you know, I see the feedback when we, you know, I know the trust work, but the way you coach it


David Horsager: How do you, how do you get the best. How do you help them have an aha moment that actually has some, you know, people throw transformation. Transformation. But, you know, we’ve seen real transformation. We’ve seen that happen, how do you actually help create a petri dish where that can happen.


Dave Cornell: You know, it’s an interesting thing, Dave, one of the, one of the things that I like to do with every coaching client is I like to start with the disc behavioral profile.


Dave Cornell: What that does is it helps me to see how the person I’m coaching how they view the world. And then as I coach them. I can ask them questions based on how they see the world.


Dave Cornell: And help them to recognize that not everybody else sees the world, the very same way that they do. And that really is an eye opener for people. I know the first time that I took the disc. When I was 32 years old.


Dave Cornell: Wow, it was a smack upside the head and and I thought at that point in time. If you didn’t see the world the way that I saw.


Dave Cornell: That you were wrong and you needed to get with the program.


Dave Cornell: And so that’s why I like the disc is because it helps people to recognize. Oh, that there are different ways to see the world that different people see it differently.


Dave Cornell: And so it helps me to coach them, give them a better coaching process because I can help them to begin to see how they see the world and that not everybody else sees it in the same way.


Dave Cornell: Then it comes down to listening and asking really good questions. So I think those are the keys for me.


David Horsager: So as a coach that helps people transform and certainly, you got to have the right content. We believe in this trust content we but how we do it. Any other tips on


David Horsager: If I’m whether it’s my daughter or my executive or my manager. Any other tips on whether it’s specifically you know questions I asked her, kind of a framework. Anything else on what I could do to be a better coach as a trusted leader.


Dave Cornell: You know, I think so much of it comes down to, like, specifically when we’re talking about the kinds of questions we ask


Dave Cornell: It’s, it’s important to ask obviously open ended questions so that you give people


Dave Cornell: The opportunity to really start to dig deep and a question. I love to ask. And I remember when I was going through my coaching certification. They told us never ask why.


Dave Cornell: And I believe that that’s one of the best questions that we can ask, because it really puts people in a position where they have to start to dig deeper. So much of what we do in our lives.


Dave Cornell: Our defaults. We just act and react, because that’s the way that we’ve always done and we don’t think about why we do things the way that we do them.


Dave Cornell: And so I think it’s about asking good open ended questions and then beginning to challenge and go deeper with people and asking people, again, another great question.


Dave Cornell: How do you feel about that. How do you think the other person feels about how do you think the people that report to you feel when you respond in that way.


Dave Cornell: So I think getting those feeling questions which are hard for a lot of people to to process and to respond to. But those are the things that I like to do as a coach.


David Horsager: You know, you just maybe jump back to about a decade ago got invited to Larry King’s home you know many of our younger generation. Probably my producer over here can’t won’t even know that name.


David Horsager: But at the time, you know, he’s one of the he was the most known journalist in the world.


David Horsager: And I’m there with a few leaders in his amazing, you know, I think Rodale drive and wherever it was there in California and


David Horsager: We’re, we’re gathering in his living room gathered in his living room and you know we get to ask him a few questions. I remember the question said


David Horsager: You know, you know you are known as the best question asked her in the world. I mean, you’re the greatest journalist in the world. You’ve, you’ve interviewed every president than every you know that you can’t couldn’t find somebody he hadn’t interviewed. It was a


David Horsager: Saturday right on Larry King Live and what’s your, what’s your favorite question to ask. And without hesitation Larry said why


Dave Cornell: Wow.


David Horsager: Yeah, I said, because why motivates people


David Horsager: Yeah why shows their purpose why gets under their, their kind of their motivation for for all the other things. So he said, Now, as you know, in my work on clarity, I believe the greatest question to take an idea to an action is how


David Horsager: Yes, but the motivating question is the why so fun to hear you say that. You gotta, you gotta if you’re going to coach people got to know their motivations. Right.


Dave Cornell: Yeah, exactly.


Dave Cornell: Exactly right.


David Horsager: Yeah, so you’re big on helping people get better and I want to especially get your courage work in a moment. But how are you getting better, these days.


Dave Cornell: Well, I think one of the real blessings for me, David has been working with you and the work


Dave Cornell: The work that I’ve had the opportunity to do with the pharmaceutical company that you reference has really helped me to grow because I’ve been doing stuff for you that I’ve not done in the past.


Dave Cornell: So I’m digging deeper into the trust work as I prepare for the presentations that I’m doing.


Dave Cornell: So that’s been tremendous and helping me grow the book club that I that I mentioned earlier, has been a tremendous


Dave Cornell: Benefit to me and helping me to grow as I look at one of the projects that I’m working on right now is creating an online course for myself.


Dave Cornell: And that again is taking me to places that make me uncomfortable and are requiring me to grow and do things that I don’t, I’m not comfortable doing. And anytime we step out


Dave Cornell: We we grow. And so I’ve been fortunate with the work I’m doing with you with my mastermind group and now with this project that I’m working on those are things that are helping me to grow right now.


David Horsager: Love it. Well, Dave Cornell everybody that knows you other than a really fun guy a really tall guy a really great guy.


David Horsager: If they were going to put one word.


David Horsager: Today, granola, I would say, Dave Cornell knows courage and your the courage expert you’ve written this book. Everybody can find it and go to Amazon. It’s cultivate courage and so I want to jump into this a little bit. Tell us where this came from.


Dave Cornell: You know, I lost my job back in January of 2010 so 11 years ago now and at the time I didn’t realize how bad the economy was. That was the the recession time December to 2008 to 2012 2013


Dave Cornell: I thought I’d find a job pretty quickly. But I, I didn’t. My wife lost her job 13 months later, over the course of that time I


Dave Cornell: was diagnosed with situational depression and with the help of a Wonderful Counselor, she helped me to recognize the role that fear had played in my, in my life and


Dave Cornell: The need to begin to do things courageously during that time, we ended up. We didn’t lose our home. But we ended up having to sell our home as we went through.


Dave Cornell: All of our savings and so we were in our mid 50s in 2011 now we had no jobs. We had no home and we had no money and so


Dave Cornell: I had to start to it because I wasn’t finding work. I had to start to find ways to create work you were instrumental in that David in that process for me.


Dave Cornell: But then also with the help of this counselor beginning to recognize


Dave Cornell: How fear had really held me captive for many, many years. And I began to write down the things that I was learning with my counselor and this this book and the the the talk, the presentation that I give on courage all developed out of that process.


David Horsager: And I was fortunate enough to get to write the the forward to


Dave Cornell: That


David Horsager: And I still remember the story I wrote in the forward so you know I’m 12 years old. I’m riding my horse, I get my foot cotton, the stirrup I get drugs and drugs and drug and between the legs and and think I’m going to die under the under the horse because only one leg is caught in the


David Horsager: Saddle at 12 years old when that horses running across the field and I’m being drugged on the ground. Finally, my foot slips out and I, my dad quarter mile away sees it comes over to me and I’m scared to death. I’m shaking I’m


Dave Cornell: Okay.


David Horsager: And I remember what he says. I didn’t even I don’t even know if he had to say it because we knew this about horses get back on the horse.


David Horsager: Wow. For me as much, maybe for me, too. But what you can do is you can ruin a horse. If you don’t get back on and they think they can get away with that and you hear that all the time that horses ruined. No one can get on that.


David Horsager: Horse again because of the, you know, no one somebody didn’t get back on and I knew I had to get up back on that horse and I remember 12 years old, shaking


David Horsager: And sitting on that horse, and I knew you know little tears and my dad knew how hard it would be for me, but he knew I had to do it for me and for the horse sitting on that horse and walking home and


David Horsager: I just, I’m grateful for that moment of the push, sometimes a push or an encouragement toward courage. When you don’t feel like it can be the thing and I see you doing that with


David Horsager: Our team and as a certified in a senior consultant for us with others that we serve, but also with your own clients of how you’re kind of this


David Horsager: This push toward take the next step.


David Horsager: Yeah, be of courage and I’m grateful for my dad, you know, doing that for me, but


David Horsager: Tell us kind of the core concept of, you know, wanting us to get into the frame a little bit because I think that was so valuable for me when you lead through about maybe before that.


David Horsager: You know this this whole courage. What, what, what can we learn I were scared as you and I both see


David Horsager: imposter syndrome and leaders we in our work we’ve been able to work with presidents of countries and presidents of companies and we know underneath it. Many of them are looking a certain way, but they’re scared to death that they’re going


Dave Cornell: To be

306

David Horsager: Found out and they’re scared to make the courageous choice. What, what would you say to them.


Dave Cornell: Well, I think that the real key here, David. And it’s interesting you tell the story that you share in the forward.


Dave Cornell: One of my favorite quotes that I share often when I speak comes from john wayne the movie cowboy courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.


Dave Cornell: And so this is not about becoming fear less we we often hear and people say, you know, it’s all about becoming fearless. And I think if if we strive to become fearless. We’re never going to do anything.


Dave Cornell: It’s about wrecking the need that recognizing the need to be courageous and I think one of the things that I talk about first is never underestimate the value of a crisis.


Dave Cornell: I look back at that time when my wife and I lost our jobs and lost our home. It was a crisis time in our lives. I can tell you today though because we went through that time.


Dave Cornell: We are better people for it and I’m glad that it happened, doesn’t mean I ever want it to happen again.


Dave Cornell: But it’s in those crisis times in our lives where we learn and we grow and we’re challenged to do and become what we don’t think that we can become


Dave Cornell: And then I outline really three points in the book, and we can discuss them to whatever level you want to David. But first, is to name your fear.


Dave Cornell: You have to acknowledge that you have this fear. Maybe it’s a fear of of having a difficult conversation with an employee. Maybe it’s a fear of applying for a position that you don’t think that you’re quite ready for


Dave Cornell: It’s all kinds of but it’s about naming it acknowledge it. I say, it’s like being an alcoholic or a drug addict. If we’re not willing to acknowledge it. We’re never going to change it.


Dave Cornell: Step two is to frame your fear begin to see your fear in a whole different way and I think we’ll talk a little bit more about that.


Dave Cornell: In a little bit, David. And the last is to claim your courage and courage is about taking steps.


Dave Cornell: Not knowing what the second step is going to be so we know that maybe on the first step. It’s to go online to fill out the online application that’s step one. We don’t know what. Step two is


Dave Cornell: That’s what courage is. Courage isn’t waiting for everything to be all lined up courage is stepping into our fear not knowing what’s next.


David Horsager: Love it. So let’s take someone through it. We’ve got all different levels of challenges, but


David Horsager: You know, people have been through last year with the


David Horsager: Pandemic they had to fire people, they should have fired or let go earlier they waited because they weren’t courageous to do it.


Dave Cornell: Yeah.


David Horsager: You had people that should have had difficult conversations they were too scared to do it and their companies are tanking because of it. So,


David Horsager: Let’s take the CEO, the leader. They got a really difficult thing they’ve named it, it’s a difficult discussion. It’s a difficult conversation. But what about that jumping into the frame once they’ve named it


Dave Cornell: Yeah, you have to you. We see everything in a certain way and and the frame is much like a picture frame we start in the upper left hand corner with


David Horsager: It. I don’t know if you can see it, but this is what page 48. And the book is a great diagram of it.


Dave Cornell: Yeah, and and it’s it’s the word si se the way that we see things about people or other situations.


Dave Cornell: impacts how we’re going to feel about something. So we go to the upper right hand corner. Feel what we feel affects what we do, which is the lower right hand corner.


Dave Cornell: What we do affects what we get the outcome. And then our get takes us back up to our see. So in essence it’s the self fulfilling prophecy. So if we only see something in one way


Dave Cornell: And we and we continue to feel and do and get the same result. We’re not going to get anywhere. So we have to begin to see things in a different way.


Dave Cornell: And and let’s take the CEO who has a difficult decision to make. For me, the epiphany moment in this journey. David was recognizing


Dave Cornell: That that this kind of fear that holds us back this irrational fear that holds us back is selfish.


Dave Cornell: And by that, what I mean is if I’ve been given the gift. And this was my case. Now, if I’ve been given the gift of communication and the gift of


Dave Cornell: Telling stories and sharing them in a way that will make a difference for others, and I don’t do that because I’m afraid I’m not good enough, I’m afraid. Nobody wants to hear what I have to say. But yet, that’s my gift.


Dave Cornell: That’s selfish on my part to not share it. That was the epiphany moment the recognition of. Whoa. If I don’t do this. That’s selfish. So let’s take a look at the at the CEO.


Dave Cornell: Who has an employee that needs to be let go and this employee is impacting other people around them, it’s impacting their bottom line, but they’re afraid of what this employee might do or say or


Dave Cornell: They’ve had a personal relationship with them. And so they’re afraid of what might happen with that.


Dave Cornell: And yet, keeping that person on is impacting everybody else. It is selfish to hang on to that employee for personal reasons.


Dave Cornell: Because it’s having an impact on the organization. It’s having an impact on employees and you likely are losing other employees who are leaving because they don’t see you taking action that’s a kind of a quick summary. Hopefully that made sense.


David Horsager: I love it. I think that’s this reframing it to selfishness and understanding that that we’re selfish when we don’t


David Horsager: Really when we aren’t don’t act courageously


David Horsager: Exactly still scary.


David Horsager: Day. Yes, it’s still scary.


David Horsager: I don’t want to. How am I gonna, I mean, come on. I need something more. How am I gonna see it differently.


Dave Cornell: Well, I think one of the things that you need to do is you need to visit with trusted people


Dave Cornell: You need to sit down and have conversations with people that you trust and share that fear, again, it goes back to not step number one.


Dave Cornell: acknowledge it, share it, write it down on a piece of paper, get it out there is


Dave Cornell: When we live in fear. It holds us captive and getting it out verbalizing it or sharing it take some of the power away. And so I think first and foremost, and


Dave Cornell: I am hoping that most CEOs have a group of trusted friends that challenge them that encourage them and I think that’s where it starts, is you have to share it with somebody else.


Dave Cornell: Get their input get their feedback. And you know what happens when we do this, David is they say,


Dave Cornell: That happened to me. Let me tell you what I did. And let me tell you the difference that it made


Dave Cornell: And so it’s so critical. Again, first to get it out, then you need to begin as you begin to frame it and see it differently. You need to begin to write out. Okay, here’s how I see it now.


Dave Cornell: What other ways might I see this. Wow, I didn’t even think about it impacting my other employees. I didn’t even think about it impacting my clients.


Dave Cornell: And yet it does so we have to begin to see what is the impact not just on the personal piece with this employee. But what is the impact with everything around


Dave Cornell: And then we have to begin to have a strategy to courageously step into it. We have to have a plan. So, okay, I’ve got this employee and I need to let them go.


Dave Cornell: I’m going to set the date that on, you know, Monday, January 11 I’m having this conversation with this person. I’m going to sit down with HR and go through, make sure we’ve got all our ducks in a row.


Dave Cornell: But you need to have a plan on here’s what we’re going to do. Here’s why we’re going to do it and make sure that all of your HR appropriate steps are in place so that you can do it.


Dave Cornell: But it’s naming it framing it and then taking those courageous steps and it’s hard, David. You’re right. And I’ll tell you, sometimes it’s hard to be the courage guy because I have these recognitions of my need to be courageous.


David Horsager: You don’t get you don’t get a pass.


Dave Cornell: Yeah, that’s exactly


Dave Cornell: Right, it’s right that’s the same with trust. We’re in a glass bowl. It’s like a you talk about trust, you better you know be perfect, right.


David Horsager: Live. That’s why the in in in workshops. The first thing I say speeches or whatever. It’s like I’m not perfect at any of this.


David Horsager: I didn’t know it’s true from the research right


David Horsager: I like it. This is, this is great. So


David Horsager: Any so if I went I saw it, I, I went through this process of framing, then in that third the claim Kurt. Where’s the plan.


Dave Cornell: Well, the plan and I outside outlined some different steps in there that I did the plan can be very different for each person.


Dave Cornell: But I think one of the one of the very simple steps in this process is recognizing the power of the Word, maybe


Dave Cornell: I used to tell myself David and you helped me a great deal in this process, but I used to tell myself I wanted to own my own business and be a speaker.


Dave Cornell: But I would tell myself very definitively even though this is what I wanted to do. I could never make my living as a speaker and a coach and a trainer.


Dave Cornell: And then I learned with the help of some friends. The word putting the word maybe in front of that maybe I could never make my living as a speaker and a coach and a trainer.


Dave Cornell: But then what happens is there’s a little crack of hope in that and hope is such a powerful thing.


Dave Cornell: And then it’s about love. Again, the process for everybody is going to be very different. But when you say I can’t let that person go


Dave Cornell: Maybe you can’t let that person go but maybe you can. And then you begin to outline. Okay, how am I going to do this and that may be different for everybody so


Dave Cornell: That’s one of the things that’s hard with this David is to give a very definitive process, but I think it’s the first thing is to recognize what is the first step that you need to take and maybe the first step is simply I need to decide that I’m gonna let this person go. Step one.


David Horsager: Yeah, I love it. So before the plan. I’ve met you know this is the power of maybe maybe gets kicked around like the bad word.


David Horsager: Yeah, actually, it gives hope and I think it’s interesting. The last podcast I had, you know, basically the gift that this person’s dad, who happened to be the principal of a school in a very tough.


David Horsager: Area of Chicago said that what he gave those young students in urban Chicago was he gave him hope.


David Horsager: I mean there’s such power in hope. Right.


Dave Cornell: And I think


David Horsager: For me, you know, when I learned a way to lose weight back when I lost 50 pounds I you know people to eat less, exercise more, that wasn’t clear enough right but but when when I got an idea. I actually gave me hope.


David Horsager: This may be cracks open the door for hope is, if we can give hope there’s a whole lot of power like


David Horsager: To believe this could happen. And that’s the start of a mind shift that really matters.


Dave Cornell: Right. Right. Yeah. And and David. You’re so right. It’s all about the mindset and and i remember when and this is some friends that taught me the frame and taught me the word maybe


Dave Cornell: From an organization called Top 20 training that do amazing work in schools and and they allowed me to use this work and my work and


Dave Cornell: That word maybe and hope is such a critical piece and again for me as a Christian. It’s a it was a whole revelation for me to recognize that power of hope and and to get people to see that.


Dave Cornell: Maybe I can’t. But you know what, maybe I can I think of Roger Bannister the first man to ever break the four minute mile


Dave Cornell: And people said it would never happen people’s no one will ever break the four minute mile but Roger Bannister did


Dave Cornell: And he put that word, maybe, maybe nobody will. But maybe somebody. And I don’t remember what the statistics are but over the course of the next two years. There were like another 10 or 12 people that did it because of the power of hope.


David Horsager: Yeah, absolutely. So if I’m going to do the process basically and not to oversimplify it people should get the book cultivate courage and and and hire you and hire us


David Horsager: Maybe


David Horsager: Maybe they shave anyways but but you’ve got, you’re going to name the fear, you’re going to frame the fear and then you’re going to claim courage.


David Horsager: But am I right here when it the creating the plan stage for dealing with that is that going to be right before. Number three, claiming is that part of number three.


Dave Cornell: It’s, it’s part of number three. It’s it. First of all, you have to recognize hopefully after steps one and two, you recognize


Dave Cornell: Time for me to do something courageous. So how am I going to do that. And that’s where you begin to to step into that courage and


Dave Cornell: And one of the things that I that I talked about. It’s one of the steps is recognize that the fear will always be there.


Dave Cornell: So again, as I said, this is not about becoming fearless. It is rather about becoming courageous. So step one is to recognize the fear will be there.


Dave Cornell: When you have that conversation with that employee, you’re likely going to be a little bit scared about what it’s going to be like


Dave Cornell: But if you’ve done your homework and done all the things you should do in advance. You can go into that, knowing that you can handle that difficult conversation and so


Dave Cornell: It’s about. It’s about taking little steps, not knowing maybe what the next step is even going to be. And that’s often the case.


David Horsager: I love it, a process for being more courageous and it doesn’t mean you won’t be fearful there.


Dave Cornell: Yes.


David Horsager: As we know, fear can be very good.


David Horsager: Fear yes right thing


David Horsager: I’m so yes, lad. You know, I’m scared to walk in the middle the road when somebody comes by. I’m so scared. I’m I don’t want to you know get too close to that cliff. I’m so glad I’m scared of taking drugs for what could happen right i mean


David Horsager: The fear is such a great thing, but it can be terrible.


David Horsager: Yes, that’s when we need to have courage. So how is this worked with your, you know, your trust work you’ve been you’ve been doing so much trust work you’ve been doing so much courage work. How have you put them together. And how’s that worked.


Dave Cornell: You know, I think it’s been really interesting. The, the synergy between courage and trust and really the synergy between


Dave Cornell: Each of the pillars and I’ll give you, I’ll give you one example, we’ll start with the first pillar, the pillar of clarity so often I have


Dave Cornell: In coaching or I found myself in this situation where a manager or leader will be up in front of the room and they’ll say, Here’s what our plan is for the next year. And here’s what our expectations are.


Dave Cornell: And I’m sitting there, confused, and the manager or leader will say any questions. And I’m sitting there.


Dave Cornell: Looking around nobody nobody’s raising their hand. And so I think I must be the only one who’s confused here.


Dave Cornell: And and so in clarity. It’s about the courage to ask, Hey, I’m not sure what’s expected of me here. Can you go through that again for me.


Dave Cornell: And so often we sit back and then and then when the meetings over we go talk with somebody else that by the water cooler and they say, did you get what he just said.


Dave Cornell: And it’s about having the courage to raise your hand and ask the question.


Dave Cornell: It’s about having the courage as the leader to say, you know what I know, I often don’t communicate very well, so hey Bill, just so I know I’ve communicated appropriately. Can you tell me what I’ve asked you to do.


Dave Cornell: So that’s included. That’s it. That’s an example of the courage to ask the questions just in the clarity pillar and it happens in every single pillar and I know we don’t have time to go through all them. But that’s one example, David.


David Horsager: I love it. Courage asked questions. I was just thinking about that, you know, one of the one of the little quick ideas we teach managers is Odissi


David Horsager: Maybe


David Horsager: You’ve given a clear outcome clear deadline. Clear. Clear and leave left room for clarifying questions and that deadline. People just don’t want to give it because they’re scared to death that it’ll create conflict when not giving it will create conflict.


David Horsager: And


David Horsager: I am very clear here at the Institute.


David Horsager: That


David Horsager: I am not good at all these things. I teach, and I’ll tell you what, and has the courage. Every time to say, David, what’s the deadline, then you you teach this stuff. But what’s the NGOs to stand up and bravery, by the way that you didn’t do you


David Horsager: Mean the deadline. Yeah.


David Horsager: Yeah, so


Dave Cornell: It’s great to work with people that


David Horsager: Have the courage.


Dave Cornell: And clean, you know,


David Horsager: Where people can have it.


Dave Cornell: Yeah, and the David. The interesting thing too is a lot of the reason that people don’t want to give deadlines is because then they have to hold people accountable.


Dave Cornell: And it takes courage to hold people accountable and that comes back to the commitment pillar and so courage is interwoven in so in in all the pillars really


David Horsager: Every one of them.


David Horsager: Yeah. Wow.


David Horsager: Well, let’s do you have any, by the way, sometimes we get to this in the in just our daily lives. People love to hear habits and you gave a few of those. But you have any like tips.


David Horsager: Just favorite productivity tips, even for how you you know we’ve got so many busy leaders listening today. Any tips that you as a routine or, you know, as a as a habit or ways you deal with things that help you stay effective and efficient, even in just the little tasks.


Dave Cornell: Yeah, and, and I’m a I’ve never been a great list person, but I’ve got a list right in front of me of the things that I want to accomplish this week and I know David that that’s something that you teach and something that I


Dave Cornell: That that you affirmed in what I was doing. And so for me it’s about what is it that I want to accomplish this week. And how am I going to go about getting that done. I think that is


Dave Cornell: Truly a simple one that that many, many people talk about, but not many people really fulfill that live that out.


David Horsager: DMA is different jacking actions we wrote about them in both the first two books, but


David Horsager: Every day. Now, you know, and leads it but the team comes around for a five minute meeting stand up meetings and everybody just gives one DMA for the day.


David Horsager: And then the next day they have to report on it. Just what top thing. What’s the most important thing of their five, three or four, three to five. What’s, what’s the most important thing


David Horsager: Interesting. What happens when that just gets in front of you have it written down, and that kind of thing, simple idea, but certainly an important one.


David Horsager: Yeah, well, there’s a whole lot more. We could cover and cultivate courage and a whole lot more. We could cover with your work.


David Horsager: Maybe before I get to the lightning round any other highlights, you know, for you in work life business like this courage work.


David Horsager: I’m thinking of that principle, you came up with. It’s really fun for us to see for the the pharmaceutical we were working with. But what what are some little highlight takeaways. When you’ve seen people be TRANSFORMING, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GETTING IT


Dave Cornell: Wow, that’s, that’s a great question and I, for me, it’s when I get an email from somebody, or maybe even a letter.


Dave Cornell: From somebody and and they tell me that they have begun to step out and courage and and i mean i had a lady share with me.


Dave Cornell: This is, this is a year after she had heard me speak and she went back was challenged, but by what I had to share with her and she didn’t do anything about it. She just


Dave Cornell: Dwell the in that fear for a year of calling out somebody was a nonprofit calling out the, the head of her board who had been harassing sexually harassing one of her employees and it took her a year to do something about it. But she did and it, it changed her life and


Dave Cornell: So others.


Dave Cornell: It and others. Exactly. And so I think for me, just hearing those stories of of people who have made a change, who have had the courage. This gentleman that we’re coaching right now that I’m coaching right now from the the


Dave Cornell: The university that that we’ve talked about just the change that he is making. And again, that’s what drives and motivates me so I just, I love when I see people


Dave Cornell: Beginning to see differently. You know, it comes back to the frame. They’ve seen one way and now they’ve started to see another way


David Horsager: I love it, you know, psychology, thoughts, lead to desires with


David Horsager: The actions. What I see leads to what I think about and desire which leads now act and it’s the same with the frame and the same with courage, so


David Horsager: A clear, simple three step process for courage, a simple, clear frame but you got to do it. And like we say around here. You got to do the work.


David Horsager: So let’s jump to a lightning round here. What’s your right now. You gave a bunch of your favorite authors, so we’ll just jumped in. What’s a favorite resource or book right now, specifically


Dave Cornell: You know, I just finished up reading Bob gough’s dream big book and and i love how he writes, he’s got so many stories.


Dave Cornell: But particularly as I think about this online course, I’m in the process of developing. It was so good for me so challenging for me and helped me to be in the process of dreaming bigger than what I normally might have done in that book was critical in helping me through this process.


David Horsager: You know something really fun about that we read, we read a book in the evening with our kids getting older, all the time, but we read love does by


David Horsager: God, and boy, that was fun and some out loud laughter but also inspiring go take a chance, go do it. You know,


David Horsager: Yes, but I’ll tell you a really fun podcast listening to it yesterday because of the four authors you named you can put two of them together and just this last podcast by Bob goth. He has Mark Patterson on


Dave Cornell: That yeah


David Horsager: Big thinkers together in one podcast.


David Horsager: They are a lot of fun and a lot of inspiration.


Dave Cornell: So I’ll have to find that one.


David Horsager: Very cool. It’s on his dream big podcast but


David Horsager: He has mark on and marks going to be on our show here before long. So what any favorite quote


Dave Cornell: Wow, you know, I’m going to share what this. This is one of my quotes and it’s one that that I tried to step into every day fear calls us to be spectators courage calls us to get in the game.


Dave Cornell: And I and and that’s a quote that came out of a particular story that I share when I speak of me being


Dave Cornell: Put into a high school basketball game in a situation that I didn’t think that I was ready for and fear. Fear keeps us in the stands.


Dave Cornell: Courage gets us in the game gets us active gets us doing things that we don’t think when we could ever accomplish and


Dave Cornell: Here’s one of the key things to in this David is that when we are courageous, it not only makes a difference in our lives, but in the lives of the people around us.


Dave Cornell: And so we have to recognize that when we’re courageous when we’re fearful. We’re selfish when we’re courageous.


Dave Cornell: We are we are spreading who we are and the gifts that we’ve been given. And so for me, that’s one of my favorite quotes and I don’t know if it’s fair to use one of my own. But that’s one that’s


Dave Cornell: really impactful for me.


David Horsager: I love it. We know your humility already so I’m glad you use your own because I really appreciate that.


David Horsager: Well, it has been a great conversation. What’s, what’s one thing in your life. One thing you have left to do you really want to do that by the way I think of courage with you. I remember when you told me years ago. I don’t know if I’ll live past 50


Dave Cornell: Right, yeah.


David Horsager: Yeah, because you know family basically no one had and look at


David Horsager: You now a couple decades almost


Dave Cornell: Closing in on that. Yeah, then


David Horsager: But I mean, think about what do you have left to do you, what’s your bucket list item here that you’re thinking, boy, I sure hope to this is something I’d like to see happen.


Dave Cornell: Well, for me, it’s this online course, and I’ve got a deadline of March 1 and, you know, sharing it with you and and your listeners. Now it becomes even more. I’m more accountable to it now and. But just knowing that the impact


Dave Cornell: That that this can have on people if they knowing the impact of learning to be courageous in my own life.


Dave Cornell: And and how other people can do that as well and the impact that that spreads its kind of kind of the, the pebble in the pond theory, you know,


Dave Cornell: Hopefully I can impact a few people who then can impact more and more and more just like you do in your trust work, David. And so


Dave Cornell: I’m going to say, even though I’ve got a you know a shortened deadline on it that for me, I think, is the is the next big step and then some longer term goals are. I’d love to do courage workshops


Dave Cornell: Where we bring people together and they share dreams that they might never think that they could do but with the help and support of other people. They can be encouraged to be more than they ever thought they could be and they can get out of the stands and get into the game.


David Horsager: Love it. I love it. There’s a second book there.


David Horsager: So where can people find out about more, I got one last question for you. But before that, where can we find out more. Everybody can come to trust edge to find you. But where do we find out about courage.


Dave Cornell: And I’ve got my own website cultivate courage calm and you can go there and find out the work that I do there.


Dave Cornell: The training that I do the speaking that I do. I’ve got a blog that I haven’t done much with the last couple of months, but was pretty consistent with. And I’ll start back up here in a couple weeks on that.


Dave Cornell: So cultivate courage calm, you can find my book on Amazon, just to type in the title cultivate courage and so those are the really the two places that I


Dave Cornell: Would love to connect with people on my website. I’ve got a Facebook page as well. Cultivate courage. So I’d love to connect with people there to


David Horsager: Cultivate courage and all these sites and links will be in the show notes trusted leader show.com and we’ll make sure they’re in there. So, final question.


David Horsager: The show is the trusted leader show who is a trusted leader that you trust and why


Dave Cornell: Well, David. I’m, I’m gonna go with you and


Dave Cornell: You just have had such an impact in my life and I see you live out those eight pillars and I know that you say that you’re not perfect at them and and but


Dave Cornell: You have been a mentor to me you have helped me in in more ways than you can even imagine. And I think just


Dave Cornell: Being able to apply again we go back to the pebble in the pond. I’m one of those outer rings of the pebble we you know when you jumped into the pond with your trust work that’s had an impact on me and I’m just very, very grateful for that. So,


Dave Cornell: I hope that that’s okay to use you as my as my trusted leader in that


David Horsager: Very kind. I didn’t set that up at all, but


Dave Cornell: He didn’t. He didn’t


David Horsager: Thank you. Thank you, Dave. And it’s been a delightful friendship and


Dave Cornell: Spent so far, see all


David Horsager: You’ve done so well that is our conversation for today. Thanks for joining us on the trusted leader SHOW. Dave Cornell. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you for your work. Thank you for being our friend, and thanks for the, the, the, the framework.


David Horsager: Around courage today and we just are grateful to know you and partner alongside with you. So, we will see you all next time on the trusted leader show and until then stay trusted.

Ep. 28: Ron Karr on Why You Should NEVER Script Your Sales Calls

In this episode, David sits down with Ron Karr, Keynote Speaker/CEO, Best Selling Author, and Creator of the Velocity Mindset®, to discuss why you should NEVER script your sales calls.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Ron’s Bio:
Ron Karr has worked with leaders on six continents to eliminate risk, gain buy-in and achieve better results faster with the Velocity Mindset®. His presentations and advisory services have generated over a billion dollars in incremental revenues for his clients. Ron is the author of five books including his latest, Velocity Mindset® and the bestselling Lead, Sell or Get Out of the Way. Ron facilitates the Chief Revenue Officer Mastermind Group (CRO) made up of CEO’s and VP’s of high growth companies looking to build high performance sales cultures. He also served as the 2013-2014 President of the National Speakers Association.

Ron’s Links:
Buy Ron’s NEW book “The Velocity Mindset”: https://amzn.to/3gUsFFT
Website: http://ronkarr.com
Blog: http://ronkarr.com/blog
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ronkarr
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/ronkarr
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ronkarr1
YouTube: http://youtube.com/ronkarr1
“Lead Sell or Get Out of the Way” by Ron Karr: https://amzn.to/3aWALdc

Key Quotes:
1. “Vulnerability sells.”
2. “When you’re vulnerable, that’s what makes the emotional connection with others.”
3. “We put self-imposed limitations on ourselves which in effect stop us from going after what we want.”
4. “If you don’t have empathy, you can’t be there for somebody.”
5. “We’re too hard on ourselves.”
6. “The best that I can do when I’m up on stage is just tell my story.”
7. “It’s actually very powerful to admit mistakes.”
8. “There is no such thing as perfectionism.”
9. “What would the world look like if everybody acted like a leader?”
10. “People buy outcomes.”
11. “The true definition of velocity is speed with direction.”
12. “If you’re scripting, you’re not listening.”
13. “Don’t make a sales call, make a help call.”
14. “Its not about me, its always about them.”
15. “Live today like its your last day.”
16. “A leader makes the unpopular decisions, even if it can cost you something.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Buy Ron’s NEW book “The Velocity Mindset”: https://amzn.to/3gUsFFT
“Healing Back Pain” by John E. Sarno MD: https://amzn.to/3vyidI0
“Staring At The Sun” by Irvin D. Yalom: https://amzn.to/3vzHyS7
Evernote: https://evernote.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a special guest today his name is Ron Karr he has maybe you’ve seen him on the BBC or the morning show CBS ABC.


David Horsager: He is author of four books he’s spoken on six continents we’re going to talk a little bit about his newest book today the velocity mindset, but he’s also a friend so RON thanks for being on the show.


Ron Karr: Oh, my pleasure pleasure to be here to support you and your audience and.


David Horsager: that’s right and you’re going to give some some greatness to our audience, I know that you’re in New York today.


Ron Karr: i’m in New Jersey, which you just hear the side of the River the.


David Horsager: Oh big pot of start.


David Horsager: let’s get into it, you know RON tell us if you think for anybody that doesn’t know you a couple little known facts about RON car.


Ron Karr: Well, known as a sales expert, because I was in sales and sales management and I always came to the companies, right after their heyday so I had to find innovative ways to succeed.


Ron Karr: And I launched my sales training business in 1988 after family tragedy, and then it morphed into speaking and consulting and advisory board of directors.


Ron Karr: And then I became President, the national speakers association, when I was done, I started asking myself, you know what’s my value that we all do, in life.


Ron Karr: Because while I was doing sales and very successful, it was missing just a little bit for me and at that time I had nine surgeries what after my presidency mostly my back.


Ron Karr: And what I realized is that my business more often to leadership, because I was coaching a lot of CEOs and how to build high performing sales cultures.


Ron Karr: And one of the things that I teach sales people and CEOs is that vulnerability cells.


Ron Karr: When you’re vulnerable that’s what makes the emotional connection with others, and then they tend to want to hear your story.


Ron Karr: And so I realized, you know that one of the things I couldn’t I couldn’t penetrate you know because they had a titan principle I have lead seller get out of the way as my previous books.


Ron Karr: I just couldn’t really give a grass to what I was really about in these days when I was looking for more significance, if you will, and.


Ron Karr: The individual that was working on my new video tape called me up and it says, I got it I got what he goes velocity mindset.


Ron Karr: And it hit me and I said well how’d you come up with that he goes I didn’t you did that’s all you talk about in the morn.


Ron Karr: You don’t even recognize it and the materials talk about it and they mentioned it, for the last 10 years, so I thought about it and I realized, you know I.


Ron Karr: I can’t find abused childhood, you know it wasn’t because my father didn’t love me he was a Holocaust survivor and it’s well documented that.


Ron Karr: kids of Holocaust survivors tend to be abused, because there’s so damaged, you know they just really don’t know how to handle life situations, if you will.


Ron Karr: And coming from that add a lot of I hadn’t didn’t have a lot of I had no confidence, and you know I go to college and then I start working.


Ron Karr: And it took me a while you know, to get out from underneath that and then finally realized my strength and and and what I can give to the world, but what I realized was how much time I lost.


Ron Karr: How much time I lost because of that lack of confidence that didn’t, allow me to go after the things that I wanted.


Ron Karr: And so now you fast forward about 4550 years you know, in a map those surgeries and.


Ron Karr: You know i’m 64 now so i’m going, you know, for what I call is my last four and when you say the back nine but around it back for say.


Ron Karr: You know I realized times that you know not plentiful, if you will, but there’s still a lot of time to make great contributions, and so the first thing that comes to you say oh man I wish I didn’t waste all that time.


Ron Karr: And so what I realized was put into this earth, was to teach people how we put self imposed limitations in ourselves, which, in effect, stop us from going after what we want and that’s just a big crying shame.


David Horsager: What would that be what’s what’s a limitation we’re putting on ourselves.


Ron Karr: Our stories hmm so we all have stories as to certain things happen to us when we’re young.


Ron Karr: And then we create a story as to what we think it is so when I was getting out from under forward, I went through with my dad I remember speaking to a mentor and she said to me look.


Ron Karr: What your father did to you, he did, for his own reasons, but once it happens, you created a story as to what you think it meant.


Ron Karr: How do you change the story Well, first of all, you got to recognize the story actually you got to recognize that everything we think it’s a story it’s our perception of what’s happening.


Ron Karr: So we can acknowledge a story, then you can easily stain change stories, but if you think it’s reality it’s hard to change reality.


Ron Karr: So the first thing is to acknowledge that it’s a story, and the second thing that is ask yourself what led to that story, and then, how is that story impacting you and if it’s not impacting you positively, what can you do to go about and change it.


David Horsager: And what how did you change your story, I mean that’s still seeing.


David Horsager: Anything after something challenging like that it’s like.


David Horsager: You know I thought we might talk about sales, but this is life, I mean let’s talk about this, what how do I change everybody I sit next to be I was just talking half an hour ago, I sit next to CEOs and leaders and.


David Horsager: Sometimes presidents of countries or companies, and there are many have imposter syndrome they’re scared to death they’re going to be filled found out there shameful and just like you actually are data lashes i’m jumping around here but.


David Horsager: found 92% of people would trust their senior leaders more if there are more vulnerable about their mistakes about the mismatches vulnerable, but about their mistakes people don’t relate on i’m the champion of this and the President of that they relate on this.


David Horsager: No yeah I failed so, but so one I see the realization there and how that makes us authentic we all everybody else knew, you were imperfect so let’s you know let’s acknowledge it right.


David Horsager: But how do I, I still think I think this is challenging for people they might even recognize it but not know what to do to retell or change the story.


Ron Karr: Well, the first couple of things, one of the things that I realized in my sales career and coaching CEOs and actually when companies come to us looking for a new executive or or sales executive and we use our assessments, the one thing we look for high rating on is empathy.


Ron Karr: All right, if you don’t have empathy you can be there for somebody but it starts with personal empathy.


Ron Karr: It starts with empathy for yourself it starts by giving yourself a break we’re too hot and ourselves number one.


Ron Karr: I remember when I became a speaker, you know we both belong to NSA I realized about eight years later, after I became a speaker I became a speaker for the wrong reason.


Ron Karr: As I thought, if I could stand up on stage and quote unquote be naked in front of an audience and get comfortable with that, then I slayed my father’s dragons.


Ron Karr: That was wrong listen to be up on that stage, you know, I was doing for myself, not for the audience.


Ron Karr: And when I started to realize that and I started, say, and when I also started realize know the one thing I wanted to do when I went on stage was it had to be the best speaker they ever heard.


Ron Karr: Why because of makeup for all the things my father told me when I was young kid your fraud wait until they find that out, and you know that’s what I had to overcome well, the reality is i’m setting myself up for failure.


Ron Karr: Because to sit there and say you that’d be the best speakers someone’s ever heard that’s impossible.


Ron Karr: When people ask you who’s your best speak I said, well, it depends I got several then for different reasons, all right, but if I want to be the best be anybody at i’m setting myself up for failure.


Ron Karr: And when I realized that the best thing that can do when i’m on stage is just tell my story they’re there to hear something from me.


Ron Karr: And all I need to do is share my story as to what why they hired me they may be platter.


Ron Karr: And when I do that number one i’m not trying to ask, I might try to be something that i’m not and that’s when the vulnerability comes.


Ron Karr: And when you also understand that it’s okay to admit mistakes and, as you said, David a second ago it’s actually late powerful to admit mistakes.


Ron Karr: Actually, for your business and what you do to trust it adds it it automatically starts developing trust, because when people can admit when they made mistakes you start trusting them more than when people sugarcoat things or glance over.


Ron Karr: Okay.


Ron Karr: So trust, as you well know, it’s a very big thing in any kind of relationship or any kind of influence so going back to your question about how do we change our stories.


Ron Karr: there’s a book that I read, because when I had all those back surgeries and half my back history is someone told me to read this book called healing back pain by Dr john sauna.


Ron Karr: i’ve recommended that book to 200 people it’s a game changer sauna was a pain MED docket nyu in the 1980s and he couldn’t understand that he goes, how can a dead nerve create pain and somebody.


Ron Karr: And yet he’s giving all these opiates but they’re not getting any better.


Ron Karr: So I started analyzing the brain and he realized that, in the 1980s, the malady was also and also they disappeared, because of medicine what to global was back pain and what he stumbled upon was.


Ron Karr: In the subconscious the things we don’t want to get in here, and when we start getting in those things often our mind will create a diversion paint that takes us away from that.


Ron Karr: And he was able to identify several reasons of why that may happen and one was a common characteristic called in perfectionism and the other one was good ISM.


Ron Karr: A lot of people want to be perfectionist and they want to be good to everybody, they doing, to the detriment of themselves.


Ron Karr: And because they’re trying to avoid seeing themselves what they really are and therefore the brain takes over and they created the version or pain i’m simplifying it.


Ron Karr: But it’s an amazing book if people want it will.


David Horsager: will put that in the show notes trusted leader.


David Horsager: trusted leader show.com and we’ll put all the show notes right there so that’s that’s a great recommendation wow.


David Horsager: So that helped you change.


Ron Karr: yeah So when I read that book, I went back to every phase in my life when I was a young kid to now when I had significant pain episodes and I realized, it was a situation where I was under a story that doesn’t serve me well.


Ron Karr: It was a lack of confidence who’s going to go out with me who’s going to do this or who’s going to buy this and I can just trace every pain episode to that.


Ron Karr: And so what I hadn’t realized is that perfectionism you know, and we all hear this phrase that i’ve used my clients failure is not an option.


Ron Karr: it’s a great face, because it shows you dedication, but if it’s overused that’s when you go for perfectionism you really hurting yourself.


Ron Karr: There is no such thing as perfectionism.


Ron Karr: it’s, how do you move the needle forward.


Ron Karr: How do you go from point A to B, how do you help others move forward, how do you help yourselves move forward so at the end of the day, you’re seeing progress and you feeling good about yourself.


David Horsager: No, not now.


David Horsager: Progress, how are you personally progressing we’ll get to the book in a in a bit, but how do you how do you moving forward these days 64 lot of brilliant a lot of success in certain ways, but what about now.


Ron Karr: Well, you know I had, as you know, an emergency open heart surgery to replace in a lot about and it went well and and obviously we know we’re here so i’m thankful for that.


Ron Karr: But when you go through that game changing surgery, and you come close close to you when you start thinking about the essence of life.


Ron Karr: And, and the fear of death, that you may have so there was another book that I read it was also a game changer called staring at the sun by irv yellow.


Ron Karr: And he is a specialist that that specializes in the fear of death and one of the things that he’s he talks about in that book.


Ron Karr: Is that we’re all going after the wrong thing and that’s why, when it comes to the end about days, sometimes it’s hard for some people to move on.


Ron Karr: Because we’re all going for legacy, while going for people to remember us 515 years and it goes to reality is no one’s going to remember you and 50 years.


Ron Karr: No one’s ever going to remember you know years of grandchildren, you know won’t be here and so forth, so why are you going for that.


Ron Karr: He goes what you really should go for his when he called rippling R I P P Li n g.


Ron Karr: When you think about it, if I do something and I share something with you, David and you and acted in your life right there was a positive thing that I contributed to the world through you.


Ron Karr: You in turn now open i’m turn that into a rippling effect because you’re going to share with other people like you do with your show.


Ron Karr: And then it’s going to be shared and Shannon the end of the day, most people won’t even know where it came from, but no one cans.


Ron Karr: Only thing we do care is that we did what we were supposed to do on this earth and we moved the ball forward so now, instead of whining about my legacy.


Ron Karr: and his worry about rippling, how can I create all these ripples throughout society that I know of, but I make a and improvement, so you know, at the end of a certain period I look back, I won’t feel like value fell short.


David Horsager: what’s it what’s a way that you’re making a ripple now I mean I feel like i’ve i’ve been crippled by you.


David Horsager: make it better because of knowing you but tell me something you’re like intentionally Is there something you’re thinking, this is one of the ways with my family with my.


David Horsager: kids I know your daughter loves you so much, we got you got a lot of good stuff how about how are you making a ripple or how you trying to.


Ron Karr: It actually was by.


Ron Karr: Taking my consulting to a higher level with the CEOs and being bold enough to get into their issues, not just the business because you know you can solve oh so Okay, why is it with the same people in we talk about the same thing three years later.


Ron Karr: Right it’s because they haven’t dealt with the story that’s been holding them back so I decided to be more vulnerable.


Ron Karr: With my people I coach and amazing, as is because then they tend to open up they trust you more, and when I can see real change in them.


Ron Karr: Like one guy had his business in the abyss he made some mistakes we told them not to make it and only one bank weapon now he’s out of it.


Ron Karr: And he nearly lost his marriage, but you know a lot of consulting got into the relationship and now he’s flourishing that you know you made a rippling effect right.


Ron Karr: And you know, then he passed it on to his wife.


Ron Karr: Because they were having a relationship that would hit the snags if you will hit a roadblock and now it’s better so she got rippling effect.


Ron Karr: it’s about making it better for everybody, you know if you want to look at what rippling is, and I just keeps being passed on, you know it’s like when you throw a pebble into a.


Ron Karr: lake you know and it keeps bouncing that’s what you want to do create all the little wave stirring around and reply, and it goes longer and longer and further and further.


David Horsager: I love it let’s jump in I love how personable you are, you have been with my team and friends and loved as as President of NSA and and all that you’ve done to just ripple before you were so focused on rippling maybe but let’s let’s talk a little bit about the velocity mindset.


Ron Karr: For.


David Horsager: Your new book coming out right now first weekend in May at first weekend may tell us about the first of all, the genesis for this a little bit more and.


David Horsager: What it’s all about who it’s for.


Ron Karr: Right well so it’s a leadership book but it’s really for everyone, because the premise of the book is what would the world look like if everybody after like a leader.


Ron Karr: And what I mean by that is taking responsibility.


Ron Karr: You know so, for example, when I when I when I teach sales executives and when I teach so CEOs or leaders anybody.


Ron Karr: One thing we talked about is, if you act like a leader and you want to influence somebody, then the first thing you have to realize your first job is to create a safe environment for them to want to have a conversation with you.


Ron Karr: that’s your responsibility, not beds.


Ron Karr: So for sales people the number one thing that they have to recognize is that when they call somebody up to an interruption.


Ron Karr: And then the book will get into the neuroscience because I I stumbled a pilot and 2000 working with a major financial services company throughout the entire United States.


Ron Karr: And they wanted to reduce their sales cycle for five calls, we got it down to three calls, but what I realized was that, when they would go knocking on.


Ron Karr: potential investors doors like retirees they spent 12 minutes talking about the pictures of the football team that they both supported the kids the grandkids and I can tell, in their eyes when I accompany them.


Ron Karr: That they’re going, what are you doing here.


Ron Karr: So cortisol which is this the fight or flight, you know flight hormone we all have it can’t get rid of it, but if you act like a leader your job is to get the quarter so on a manageable level, so they get engaged.


Ron Karr: So if you understand that the first thing you’re likely to do is interrupt them in the day, you have to understand your spiking the cortisol.


Ron Karr: So then, how you bring it down well you don’t bring it down by talking about you and your products and services because there’s no connection.


Ron Karr: You need to ask them where they’re trying to go and what the biggest challenges are.


Ron Karr: And then they’ll start divulging information because it’s about them and that about you, and then they start trusting you, you know, an influence is two parts to the body that really important the heart and the mind.


Ron Karr: The mind is data, the heart is emotional connection, unfortunately, most people make them worse mistake when they try to influence others they go straight to the mind and start shooting all the data all the reasons why they should accept your premise, but there was no emotional connection.


Ron Karr: So it’s not landing with impact if you understand as a leader at your first job is to create emotional impact and to create a safe environment for them to want to talk you got to do different things on that in that interaction.


David Horsager: But just give us a good good give us one or two insights on coaching because this is hard for everybody they’re trying to break in there, trying to connect.


David Horsager: And they’re like because I think if you if you get on a call it’s a cold call let’s just say it’s like nothing will connect he can’t say how was your family it’s in authentic you can’t say how you doing that’s in authentic.


Ron Karr: Right So the first thing you need to do is you’re going to base it on an outcome yeah people by outcomes, as the emotional connection.


Ron Karr: it’s not the features of what you offer number one again fast got is too soon alright so it’s if it’s a cold call or an email it’s a if you want to challenge and maybe a little bit like the Greg book The challenger sale, but it’s about an outcome how.


David Horsager: About there, though let’s say yeah How would you get there in the first column we’re not going to go through your whole.


David Horsager: Price we can’t, but I just think this is an issue for people this first part to even let them listen like even get anywhere.


Ron Karr: So Dave, thank you for taking my call and, by the way, that I interrupt you, and anything right now that you’re with them.


David Horsager: yeah i’m busy.


Ron Karr: I understand that I really don’t want to take a lot of time, so if you just give me a couple of minutes I guarantee this to be worth your while and you’ll be on your way.


Ron Karr: I mean i’m calling you Dave.


Ron Karr: Okay we’ve worked with several Homeowners in your neighborhood like yours with houses that are about 20 years of age.


Ron Karr: And one of the things we’re realizing that the Homeowners are looking for it’s time for new gutter now I don’t know that’s you now attend and a year now.


Ron Karr: But what i’d like us to share with you so you’re ready when the time comes, I want to share the three biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to changing gutters would this be the time to do this, or would you rather schedule another time.


David Horsager: love it there’s a massive difference there everybody heard it everybody got it yeah so I might say yes it’s a good time.


Ron Karr: Okay, and then I don’t talk.


Ron Karr: Remember it’s about them, remember, I got the quarter so low I gotta keep it low.


Ron Karr: engage not too low.


Ron Karr: right then i’ll say, well, when you put gutters on what are the three things that are important to you in that process.


David Horsager: I want them to be quality, one of the last I you know what i’m i’m frustrated about with a lot of people i’ve had out here is they don’t clean up afterwards that frustrates me, you know I wanted to last, and I wanted to be done quickly, I had a project and it would took all summer.


Ron Karr: Okay now i’m looking at you, and you, your eyelids didn’t go up with your eyeballs.


David Horsager: yeah.


David Horsager: Most people are listening to the podcast but we’re.


David Horsager: Looking at each other zoom.


Ron Karr: And so the point that i’m saying about this is something happened in your brain when I asked you what are three things most important to what happened at that moment, because he thought is still.


Ron Karr: Protecting yourself he knew I was going to sell you something right.


Ron Karr: Right something changed that that moment what was it.


David Horsager: I started thinking about what I wanted.


David Horsager: Right and kind of might need.


Ron Karr: OK, and then you shared some of that with me right.


Ron Karr: Right you wouldn’t share that with me if you didn’t start trusting me.


Right.


Ron Karr: Why is trusting me.


David Horsager: Because you seemingly had an interest in me.


Ron Karr: yeah and I asked you what were the three things you wanted right yeah and he started trusting me and did you feel better about this call think you might have expected.


Ron Karr: Absolutely so what’s happening is this tool more hormones come into play oxytocin, which is the feel good, which is the.


Ron Karr: The trust connector hormone, and then you have dopamine, which is the feel good hormone but domain only rights of oxytocin.


Ron Karr: And that’s where you got to get people you gotta get the quarter so and and do a manageable level sooner, you want to be engaged.


Ron Karr: And then you start building that trust not talking about yourself not talking about what you want them to buy but getting an emotional connection about what’s important to them.


Ron Karr: mm hmm and then, when they see that there’s a possibility for hope that you can improve their lives to come back to rip well.


Ron Karr: Okay, then they start feeling good.


Ron Karr: Right that’s when they’re in a position now to hear your solution if you give your solution before then it’s landing on deaf ears.


David Horsager: Well, the reason i’m passionate about this is most of the people listening, they have something that it really is the solution and many born buying.


David Horsager: Because we’re shutting them off before it’s even possible So if you know don’t use the sales technique, if you have a bunch of junk, but if you have something valuable that can help people then let’s try to help people with it.


David Horsager: And that starts with an emotional.


Ron Karr: connection, but even that but, even on junk has to have a value, I mean how many times have you moved, I mean i’m going to move to Florida, and I call some people fundamentally 123 you.


David Horsager: Know yeah right you still have to position it right right.


Ron Karr: it’s on the position.


Absolutely.


David Horsager: So let’s let’s go a little deeper on on velocity mindset, the overall framework.


Ron Karr: Well, again so that’s pose that the premise of the book is that.


Ron Karr: it’s for anybody who is a leader right, you have to act like a leader, if you want to gain influence and, if you want to get velocity moving because.


Ron Karr: How much sooner, can I get someone on my side another premise of the book as you can’t gain velocity or be successful justin the efforts of yourself.


Ron Karr: You can go further and faster through the efforts of others, another thing that we talked about which is really the definition of velocity if I asked you David what what’s the first word that comes to mind when you hear the word velocity, the answer is.


Ron Karr: Speed speed.


Ron Karr: that’s all you think about you are going out.


Ron Karr: Because how many times do we have our to do list i’m going going going going with getting it done also at the end of the day we go what I accomplish.


Ron Karr: I just sent myself back because it wasn’t anything geared towards what I was trying to do so, the two definition of velocity is speed with direction now it’s that direction when most people screw up on.


Ron Karr: Look at their action, like a goal, or the outcome, so if I asked you what is your goal for this prospecting call you might be making.


Ron Karr: The biggest mistake most salespeople make Oh, I want to sell the client on my services.


Ron Karr: that’s not a goal, especially if it takes five calls to sell your products it be looking to sell it on the first call.


Ron Karr: you’re setting yourself a failure, because it means all you gotta do is try every closing book and that trick in the book you’re going to talk too much and and the other day they’re going to hang up on you.


Ron Karr: And you’re not going to get to the second call and effective goal for that situation is to qualify this prospect to see a day ideal for you and for them.


Ron Karr: And then, if so, identify what the next path forward is because then you’re now going to do the right actions.


Ron Karr: to qualify you’re going to ask them what they’re looking for you can ask them what they’re trying to do, are you going to see what something for you right.


Ron Karr: And then, and then, if you agree to it, then the next thing is going to be asking is what’s the path forward what’s your buying process who’s involved or Do I need to talk to.


Ron Karr: But you would never get to those questions and that wasn’t visualized in your mind is the outcome is what you wanted to achieve.


Ron Karr: So you really have to have direction and you really need to pay attention before you do anything as to what the true goal or destination is that you’re trying to achieve.


David Horsager: I love it so velocity mindset speed plus direction.


David Horsager: Right velocity.


David Horsager: know the outcome of each step of the process, how many steps are in the process, you can have a framework.


Ron Karr: That you go I just a.


Ron Karr: So the first thing is, is that I would do it what’s called a grounding.


Ron Karr: Now myself into the probing goal.


Ron Karr: And to get myself into the right mindset of what i’m going to do and I don’t believe in scripts David a lot of people use scripts if your scripting you’re not listening.


Ron Karr: Listening is a big part of velocity Okay, I have an agenda and the agenda is a different piece, I need so one ground myself in the velocity mindset what the goal is.


Ron Karr: Then, to what do I need to find out those become my questions way trying to go now the reason we use the number 3am I asked you for one thing you want to can’t think of anything.


Ron Karr: Then we’re in trouble.


Ron Karr: But i’ve asked you for three you’re going to come up at least one or two.


Ron Karr: And, and I can’t do the first one, at least I can have the second one to hang my hat on and also three is a very powerful number of the English language.


Ron Karr: So he asked for three and then they tell you, and then you want to ask more questions you want to get the perception.


Ron Karr: Because the biggest one of the biggest things that getting away, you know those those things that I said the takeaway or create dragon resistance own velocity is our assumptions.


Ron Karr: How many times we make assumptions in a day, only to realize that we’re wrong and I called up some of our colleagues one time did an unscientific survey and I said.


Ron Karr: You know, go back to all the assumptions that you made in the last year, you know, think about some of the biggest ones, you made.


Ron Karr: That didn’t prove to be real you got when your mind and they go yeah okay What was it Oh, you know this President said it, and I will close friends and I thought it was a dig and and I said how could it be so mean to me as a man, and so what you do.


Ron Karr: Well, I student it for a few days, I will not serve you and then what happened was every time he called me I wasn’t nice to me So what did that do for you.


Ron Karr: And I said whoa and then and then, when he said those things to do you know what he meant by that.


Ron Karr: And no well, maybe you should just go ask them well they asked them and realize oh my what they were intending had nowhere near.


Ron Karr: The impact of what they receive that as so assumptions, I said how many days a week, did you use that that you know cuz think about it when you’re bothered by something in that really productive.


Ron Karr: So basically they came up with all the key assumptions that they had the wrong they probably lost three weeks in a year.


Ron Karr: What could he do with those three weeks now that’s unscientific server here Okay, and I know you like data.


Ron Karr: We all can relate to the last assumption, we had.


Ron Karr: That bothered us, and then we realize it was wrong right so we’re going to clarify what people may I gotta clarify what the same we got to clarify what the intent is.


Ron Karr: You know, when we teach communications, nobody thinks that because I communicate with you, it was an effective communication and it’s not.


Ron Karr: When we have to recognize is is that when I say something to you you’re taking those words and you’re putting it through your filter of your biases and past experiences right and therefore you get a different perception as to what it meant.


Ron Karr: And there’s one more thing that we’re doing in communications often we trigger other people.


Ron Karr: If i’m saying something to you like, for example, I had a CEO will talking and you know he came out very difficult period, you know and nearly went on, and I always find that the bank working with him.


Ron Karr: And that was part of his get well scheme, you know he figured let me sell the building, you know get some money back from that and julie’s so he found someone who really liked him and it says, this is a great business you got all that good stuff.


Ron Karr: we’re going to do it, then it gets a call for the guy week later, and the guy says don’t laugh so now we’re getting shows really looking in it seems like your business is risky.


Ron Karr: And then my client, all of a sudden his energy just drag it goes up and he said to me the coaching call of here we go.


Ron Karr: I said whoa wait a minute he just triggered you yeah why because you’re heard that from banks and banks to give you a hard time right yeah.


Ron Karr: But you’re not having empathy for him, you letting a triggers get out of the way that’s not what he meant what he was saying to is now he’s looking at the due diligence is his right to make sure he’s making the right investment.


Ron Karr: And if you sounded anywhere near like what you to send it to me.


Ron Karr: Is a very losing interest he may have even done as a test to see how you responded.


Ron Karr: You should go back to him calling back up and say hey you know when you said, this could be a risky business, so you know, on the face of it, it could be and you’re right.


Ron Karr: And we weren’t in the dumps but we pulled it out, and you can see where we are right now, but you and I know one thing that when you invest in the business and in the building or whatever you’re not just investing in the business you’re investing in the people at the top.


Ron Karr: And i’m the person who bought this company back to where it is today, and i’m the person who making the investment.


Ron Karr: it’s a totally different way to address it, and he turns around.


Ron Karr: And this still into the final negotiations and he’s probably, then I get that investment yeah so we all get triggered you have to understand when you’re getting triggered.


Ron Karr: Understand it’s just a trigger and then ask yourself Is this really what the person matt and most of the time it’s not.


David Horsager: I love it let’s the book, the new book is velocity mindset, give us a what what What do we expect, we read velocity mindset in one sentence or two, what are we going to get.


Ron Karr: you’re going to learn how to eliminate missed in your life gain buying and achieve better results faster.


David Horsager: I like it direction plus speed don’t forget about direction as far as velocity is concerned, you go too fast, the wrong direction doesn’t do it right it doesn’t do any good probably worse right so.


Ron Karr: russ and you get a lot of aggravation you gotta do it all over.


David Horsager: Well, we did we talked about, as we come to our some of the closing work here, we talked about you know habits that leaders have trusted leaders tend to have habits what what what are you doing consistently these days to to be high, trust and healthy as a leader.


Ron Karr: So one thing that I learned from the local band, whose vast buzzer when I say, and he also wrote the foreword, as the President of high point.


Ron Karr: He told me one time that he sends out three cards to three different people each day.


Ron Karr: Stay connected with people so that’s what I do sometimes it’s called sometimes it’s phone call.


Ron Karr: I know, yesterday I called for sakes you didn’t we haven’t spoken you know before my surgery, I said, for how you doing is once they are you doing.


Ron Karr: It just shows that you’re there for them that always when you want something that will one i’m what i’m also doing in this the way I let all my sales calls, but now a covert it forced everybody to do it don’t make a sales call make a health call.


Ron Karr: it’s a different connotation is set you up for different set of actions.


Ron Karr: The next one you’re going to love.


Ron Karr: It comes on the boundaries keep your word.


Ron Karr: The moment you, you know I always say to audiences, you know you can take my money, hopefully, you won’t you can take my family hopefully you wanted to get take my house, hopefully, you won’t, but if you did, and I still have my word I could find someone to invest in me.


Ron Karr: To start over.


Ron Karr: But it’s when you break that word and you break that trust it’s hard to find people to back you again.


Ron Karr: So you know now, the reality is he can’t always keep your word yeah make that your process of what you strive for.


David Horsager: What do you learn in these days what’s your new what’s the new learnings of the last just very short time you’ve written the had written the book you’re you, you know we’re learning every day, what are you learning now.


Ron Karr: Basically staring at the sun, you know coming to grips you know with our mortality and.


Ron Karr: And how can I be a better person, for the time that I have on this earth to my daughter to friends like you to my audiences.


Ron Karr: and understand that it’s not about me it’s always about them, but we always getting away so i’m constantly looking at you know.


Ron Karr: What I can do differently to keep myself out of the picture and be there 100% present one of the things I still struggle with is being President conversations.


Ron Karr: As I add my mind’s going off from all different directions now that’s good for consultant, because I can see the problems pretty fast.


Ron Karr: But if you’re not really being present people can tell when you have that presence and then it affects concepts like trust and then believing in you and so forth, so i’m still working on how can I be better presence when i’m speaking to individuals family clients and so forth.


David Horsager: that’s challenging I was just talking about a podcast I was interviewed on right before this that you know as consultant we learn how to solve the problems we learn how to critique, we can see that that isn’t the best way to be at home.


David Horsager: And you know it’s like being present and bringing.


Ron Karr: This, what do you got to do.


David Horsager: Next.


Ron Karr: Do you want to be heard.


David Horsager: Oh boy well with that let’s jump to the lightning round, and here we go.


David Horsager: We got just a few questions answer and fast then you’ve answered some already but we’ll let you go with it what’s a favorite book or resource you’ve given some maybe you want to reiterate or have a new one favorite book or resource right now.


Ron Karr: Of y’all i’m staring at the sun, made a big impact on me.


David Horsager: love it what’s a what’s a.


David Horsager: tech or gadget or APP that you like, right now, or that you’re using.


David Horsager: or gadget anything that you you’re like.


Ron Karr: I use evernote.


Ron Karr: yep, and the reason I use evernote is because it’s The one thing that I can keep track of everything I say so, I always forget it, so what if it’s a coaching client and keeping track of the coaching sessions if it’s a.


Ron Karr: Project i’m keeping track of a project and it goes to all my devices so evernote still on that that makes you the most productive.


David Horsager: it’s a great one.


David Horsager: yeah great one best advice or a good piece of advice you’ve got so much, but a best piece of advice you’ve been given her quote you’ve you think about.


Ron Karr: live today like it’s your last day.


David Horsager: With today like your last day and that’s a perfect perfect segue to this question, which is one thing left for RON car to do one bucket list or one hope for the future.


Ron Karr: Improvement golf squad.


Ron Karr: It really is i’m divorced 10 years you know and i’ve been with the zoo my career and everything.


Ron Karr: And my ex wife and I are very good friends, but when we were married we didn’t appreciate each other, so what i’m yearning for is to have that one relationship on this earth, that I can be the best to that individual and vice versa, and this fulfillment.


Right.


David Horsager: Working can we find more about RON car we’re.


Ron Karr: Sure well the website is RON cards calm now you gotta be careful because people can spell quite differently.


Ron Karr: it’s K are so it’s RON card calm and we have our blogs, and we got videos and also, if you follow me on linkedin we’re posting two videos a week and we’re also on all the other social media like instagram and Facebook and so forth.


David Horsager: And we’ll put that on the show notes trusted leader show.com it’ll all be there as well as some of the top takeaways from this I love the idea get to know get get the day.


David Horsager: Mind set velocity velocity mindset and these ideas are on grounding and make it I love this make a help call not a sales call and staying connected with others and a whole lot of i’ve got a couple pages of notes here but speed and direction is what it’s all about I love that.


David Horsager: Thank you so much for being on the show today, thank you.


Ron Karr: My pleasure.


David Horsager: For being my friend, we have one final question for you it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.


Ron Karr: Well, I guess you know one LEADER I would say is George Bush Senior.


Ron Karr: And the reason is this um.


Ron Karr: He when he became President he was you know his President, the whole country, and he knew that sometimes he’s going to have to make a decision it’s not popular.


Ron Karr: And a leader makes the unpopular decisions, even if it could cost you something.


Ron Karr: And he ran on the premise, no new taxes read my lips, and unfortunately he got in there, he had a war and he had to raise taxes and he knew he had to do it for the good of the country and, of course, and re election to me that was leader.


Ron Karr: And that about taxes, I don’t like taxes don’t get me wrong, but he did what he felt he had to do for the betterment of the country.


David Horsager: We try to keep commitments we make them and try to keep them there are changes made, I mean, I think it was even Abraham Lincoln who said.


David Horsager: I hope i’m not the same tomorrow, as I am, today, I have to take in the new information, I have to adjust, I have to think about these kind of things and try to still run my decisions on same principles i’m principled running them caring about the country and whatnot so.


David Horsager: that’s a great one well.


Ron Karr: RON that’s The other thing I look for a new leader, are they doing it for those only doing it for themselves yeah and you can see to that very easily.


David Horsager: miles away undeniably.


David Horsager: RON, thank you for your authenticity and vulnerability thanks.


David Horsager: For being my friend thanks for sharing with our trusted leader audience and to all of you, thanks for joining us on the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 27: Mark Victor Hansen on Why Your Dreams Could Be One Question Away

In this episode, David sits down with Mark Victor Hansen, Speaker, Trainer, Author, Serial Entrepreneur, and Member Of Multiple Board Of Directors, to discuss why your dreams could be one question away.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Mark’s Bio:
Mark is widely known as an American inspirational and motivational speaker, trainer, author, serial entrepreneur, and member of multiple board of directors. He is best known as the founder and co-creator of the “Chicken Soup for the Soul” book series, with more than 500 million books sold.

In the area of human potential, no one is better known and more respected than Mark Victor Hansen. For more than 44 years, he has focused solely on helping people and organizations reshape their personal vision of what’s possible. His powerful messages of possibility, opportunity, and action have helped create startling and powerful change in thousands of organizations and millions of individuals worldwide.

You may know Mark as “that Chicken Soup for the Soul guy.” Mark and his business partner, Jack Canfield, created what TIME magazine called, “the publishing phenomenon of the decade.” With more than 500 million CHICKEN SOUP FOR THE SOUL books sold around the world, and over 100 licensed products in the marketplace, it is one of the most successful publishing franchises in the world today.

A passionate philanthropist and humanitarian, Mark teaches the principles of the four types of tithing: thinking, time, talent, and treasures. Favored charities are Horatio Alger Scholarships, Habitat for Humanity, American Red Cross, Operation Smile, OCEANA, the Wyland Foundation, March of Dimes, Covenant House and is currently Co-Chairman (with his beloved wife, Crystal) of Childhelp Global Fundraising Campaign.

In the year 2000, The Horatio Alger Association of Distinguished Americans honored Mark with the prestigious Horatio Alger Award. Each year, this association honors American leaders who personify the virtues and principles inherent in the success stories written by nineteenth-century American author Horatio Alger, Jr.

As an award winner, Mark Victor Hansen’s extraordinary life achievements stand as a powerful example that the free enterprise system still offers an opportunity to all.

Mark’s Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkVictorHansenFanPage
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markvictorhansen/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkVHansen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markvhansen/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1WRGxfPQ5JMQL-NDa_jO8Q
“ASK! The Bridge from Your Dreams to Your Destiny” by Mark Victor Hansen and Crystal Dwyer Hansen: https://amzn.to/3nmKej3

Key Quotes:
1. “I think everyone should take calculated risks.”
2. “Failure isn’t final. Failure’s just a learning experience.”
3. “If you don’t have dreams, you’re not alive.”
4. “We believe everybody was coded at birth with a destiny.”
5. “We get rid of our baggage by asking questions.”
6. “You’ve got to be a visionary leader who leads.”
7. “Lead yourself and then lead others.”
8. “Be an influencer of influencers.”
9. “The more you’re thankful, the more you get.”
10. “Every problem has a solution.”
11. “With vision we flourish.”
12. “Feedback is the breakfast of champions.”
13. “You got to know where you are.”
14. “Where do you want to go?”
15. “If you ask the right question, you can get anywhere in the world.”
16. “You should never retire.”
17. “What channel are you turned to?”
18. “Everybody needs to study the visionaries and become a visionary.”
19. “Everyone’s here to be a history maker, a record breaker.”
20. “You age at the level that you don’t take care of your body.”
21. “We can’t keep polluting the earth.”
22. “We need leaders that lead.”
23. “Everybody is an expert at something.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“ASK! The Bridge from Your Dreams to Your Destiny” by Mark Victor Hansen and Crystal Dwyer Hansen: https://amzn.to/3nmKej3
“The Miracle of Tithing” by Mark Victor Hansen: https://amzn.to/3tWTJI9
Freeport-McMorRan: https://www.fcx.com/
“The One Minute Millionaire” by Mark Victor Hansen and Robert G. Allen: https://amzn.to/3vk5JUr
QCI: https://qci.com/ “You Have A Book In You” by Mark Victor Hansen: https://amzn.to/3eBCdTg
Joe Soto: https://www.joesoto.net/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have an immensely special treat today, he is trusted by over a half billion people for sure, because you’ve sold that many books and I there’s a whole lot more we’re going to say but welcome to the show Mark Victor Hansen.


markvictorhansen: My great pleasure and honor, thank you for having me.


David Horsager: Well, I want to start out so many people know you know your work around the world philanthropist and author and leader to many, many, many.


David Horsager: But it is interesting to go back to some of that maybe not the very beginning, but you know 500 million copies of chicken soup for the soul, you are the Co creator and that and founder.


David Horsager: we’re going to talk about your new book yeah there it is we can all see it those that are watching my video I just for For those of you don’t know.


David Horsager: You know, dozens of books and he and his wife wrote the new one we’re going to talk about after bit there it is ask, and it is asked bridge from your desk dreams to your destiny that’s going to be a.


David Horsager: wonderful conversation and and a large part of this, but.


David Horsager: You might remember a few of these the one minute millionaire and how to make the rest of your life, the best life, the aladdin factor dare to win richest kids in America whole lot of other book series been honored to.


David Horsager: Be inducted into many halls of fame and has earned the horatio alger award which is just a fantastic honor, as we know.


David Horsager: I wanted to start with something though mark Victor Hansen one thing i’ve noticed about you as i’ve watched you been in the same room with you watch on stage but also.


David Horsager: As a you know just in speaking and writing and all these things, something that stands out about you, compared to many others is and you’ve said this one plus one doesn’t equal to it equals or.


markvictorhansen: It.


David Horsager: can look like 11 and what i’ve noticed in your collaboration, if there was another word I would, I would say about you, other than generous and giver and you know world changer with your leadership and work, you know you have had this affinity for collaboration welcome collaboration.


David Horsager: way that many people are protecting of their work, but even in the new book you’re shining the light on so many others stories and chicken soup as a whole, built on collaboration and you know.


David Horsager: Much of your this the new book ask you and your wife are collaborating on that, but, and now the the money you’re giving to try to create energy and.


David Horsager: You know efficiency water pure water to the world it’s a collaboration effort tell me where you got that just willingness to take a risk and collaborate and why that’s such a part of your life.


markvictorhansen: Well, first of all I think everyone should take calculated risks and and the collaboration.


markvictorhansen: If you read Napoleon hill who studied Andrew Carnegie and i’m scholarly and both, and I hope you watch the videos on both of my YouTube but.


markvictorhansen: Andrew Carnegie said hey look what you have to have as a mastermind lines and he saw that Jesus had 12 disciples all synchro mesh net he never did his first miracle until he had this synchro mesh.


markvictorhansen: Mind power, so I read that you know 50 years ago and 1974 when I went bankrupt and started speaking, and all this, I said wow.


markvictorhansen: If that’s true the rest of my life I gotta have a mastermind because you create a third new invisible invincible.


markvictorhansen: unstoppable mind and that’s what I have with my wife and that’s what jack and I had when we created chicken soup, and you know hundred 44 publishers all actually said hit the road jack and I said look it’s Okay, if you know, like.


markvictorhansen: A really nice guy know jack wonderful is you know and during this class at Harvard and all that good stuff, but the fact of the matter is, is it on the outside guy he’s the inside guy and and.


markvictorhansen: We were perfect mastermind to create you know chicken soup and get a little invisible publisher to be one of the biggest in the world, a ci which people think that means Hansen canfield think it’s actually health communications I wish that we don’t do that even better.


David Horsager: Absolutely well 144 knows you know I think back to my first book and the nose and finally being picked up by.


David Horsager: I think the biggest publisher in our genre in the world at the time, but I tell the story, sometimes of the nose and I don’t want to hear mine, but I want to hear yours about.


David Horsager: You know this this perseverance, because I think it gets a little bit to this, I don’t want to jump the gun too early on the book asked, but you are willing to keep on keeping on what kept you going.


To.


markvictorhansen: go there, but I want to first hit the know that you did it’s a two part question you asked for my ears and and.


markvictorhansen: One of the guys we interviewed in our great book ask is Peter guber the world’s biggest movie maker 50 academy awards rocky Batman.


markvictorhansen: And bought a little thing we’re seeing with my dinner one night and after we’ve taken a vacation with him and he said well those sports team today and I go he’s older than I am, and I go right.


markvictorhansen: Okay, so I give up who and he said a golden state warriors I said really I said now remember I came out of poverty, so this isn’t like you know I thought, if I ever became a millionaire would be a big deal, but he said I bought deaths and so, how much do you pay 770 million.


markvictorhansen: Well, now it’s worth about 3.8 billion about seven or eight years later back to it, though, what Peter did is he interviewed me and go on YouTube and see Peter.


markvictorhansen: guber and market grandson and what’s beautiful is he said mark i’m not dyslexic but he said is so dyslexic that he thinks the word no means on.


markvictorhansen: And it does at some levels, because if you get rejected.


markvictorhansen: And you don’t take it personally you I teach a clean four letter word in our book ask any eckstein next.


markvictorhansen: Because you know, we had to go through 144 people that hit the road and we’re not taking your book and then a lot of them came up to my wife and I later and say boy.


markvictorhansen: That mistake cost me 10s of millions of dollars, I said it’s certainly dig his books done $2 billion.


markvictorhansen: In licensing I created licensing and books, nobody had ever done it before and we did a billion dollars there, so you know if you have trusted if you have gumption if you have.


markvictorhansen: Most importantly self determination to action and you’re willing to overcome and understand that failure isn’t final failures just a learning experience that you can go over under around or through every obstacle and get to the other side of you know how to act.


David Horsager: You know into this time because that speaks of the challenges of the saying no but we just came through a crisis here worldwide pandemic there’s some social unrest, you said under one in one of your writings crisis equals opportunity let’s that meant for you.


markvictorhansen: Oh boy okay so first of all, you know I worked in China, at times, I mean we sold 324 million books there and.


markvictorhansen: They have this sign everyone seen the Ying and Yang and that’s where it comes from it’s a 6000 year old symbol so it’s got juice to it crisis equals opportunity.


markvictorhansen: And in the stock market, they obviously sued volatility is where you make it you, you know when it’s down you buy it that’s called discount buying that’s what Warren Buffett.


markvictorhansen: If you read today’s news he’s got $250 billion on the sideline and he says look the markets, going to crash it’s inevitable I just don’t know when and when it does i’ll just buy.


markvictorhansen: Right, because then instead of paying $1 for dollar you’re paying 10 cents, or one cent for $1 and so john Paul getty book, the whole oil industry.


markvictorhansen: And a penny on $1 during the depression, the Great Depression and now I don’t want any of that to happen.


markvictorhansen: You asked two or three questions i’m putting it together, maybe too much, but i’m saying look crisis equals opportunity we’re in this cocoon.


markvictorhansen: And the only way out of the cocoon is, if you learn how to ask questions to find your the subtitle of the book is.


markvictorhansen: From the bridge to your dreams, all of us have dreams, hopefully to your destiny, if you don’t have dreams you’re not alive.


markvictorhansen: Right and no matter what your chronology with their little kid I dream of getting a bicycle or you’re a big kid I dreamed gone fishing or I dream of.


markvictorhansen: Learning a new language or getting travel, we need to make all that stuff happen again and everybody’s got to go to their destiny that’s what i’m recommending.


David Horsager: While we’re there now let’s talk about this book and then let’s jump back to leadership even more afterwards, because we’ve jumped in, and I think.


David Horsager: boy that that’s what it is ask bridge from your the bridge from your dreams to your destiny and there’s a there is there’s so many I can’t I can’t state enough, there are so many powerful concepts, I think you even said something in a video I watched about it that this have.


David Horsager: All these books and all this, this is your what you believe is your most important work why, why do you say that.


markvictorhansen: Well i’ve been blessed to sell you know 318 books.


markvictorhansen: Sorry 312 books done 318 by the end of the year and 59 times number one but ask is changing people at a time, they need to get change, people are.


markvictorhansen: We say there are seven roadblocks to asking and then go into those in a minute, but everybody’s sucked into this fear.


markvictorhansen: You know there’s the fear of general the malaise of fear and then there’s the fear of of just your neighbor now because we’ve been so divisional and when we need leadership to bring back trust to bring back agreement to bring back harmony.


David Horsager: So let’s let’s talk about those you know we can think well asking for our set, you have given different different pieces, you know, ask for my.


David Horsager: Self asked God, some of these different ways of asking but let’s talk about the roadblocks asking because we can’t get anywhere unless we get rid of some of these roadblocks.


David Horsager: blocks number one was unworthy and so it kind of starts with yourself, but he gives you a good night people need to get the book we’re not going to get through it all, but I want to just give enough.


David Horsager: So people see the value of learning to ask well and the power of asking, and you have a whole section on the benefits of asking but let’s talk just just give us a brief on these roadblocks so people can start to uncover some.


markvictorhansen: Good what we say there’s three channels to asking ask yourself ask others and ask God and in any given time.


markvictorhansen: Then we got seven roadblocks the first one you just hit was unworthiness, then you got dealt, then you got fear.


markvictorhansen: Then you got pattern paralysis, then you got naive and take, then you got disconnection and you got excuse ology and we can switch the order it doesn’t matter.


markvictorhansen: And we can talk to any one of them, but every one of us has felt, some of them and what our book does based on now.


markvictorhansen: We get all these gazillion readers around the world that are looking at a mirror, for the first time to go holy cow, this is the thing that stifled stop toward me.


markvictorhansen: And i’m saying hey wait a second i’m asking you to find out well my wife says every one of us has four times more talent abilities skills and genius inside then we’re using.


markvictorhansen: And the only way to bring it out as asking any only way to get over all the problems at all, I was reading David is if we start to ask, we ask wisely would love.


markvictorhansen: And we transcend our current human limitations and at some levels, they asked God means you go to a.


markvictorhansen: divine wisdom about your own life and your own destiny, because we believe everybody was coated at birth, with a destiny and maybe multiplicity of destinies it’s like when when wernher von braun which I got to meet when bucky was senior advisor NASA when I was a little kid and 21.


markvictorhansen: He said when we’re going to the moon 99% of the time we’re off target and we just got to keep reshuffling well that’s what questions do.


markvictorhansen: Right it’s like people say, well, how do you increase will have this greatest love affair, well, I say it’s like looking at this culture of David in Florence Italy.


markvictorhansen: And they said in Michelangelo mikkel how you make it David he said chippy out everything’s that David so.


markvictorhansen: We get rid of our baggage by asking questions about in our self worth and our worthiness and our self esteem and.


markvictorhansen: and making sure that we feel good about ourselves good about each other, because it says love your neighbor as yourself meaning you get a positive and correct real self love before you can love anyone else.


David Horsager: So we’ll listen listen answer yeah well that’s an answer that’s for sure that’s a good one.


David Horsager: But what let’s let’s take a look at some of the questions you have these golden nugget you know question.


David Horsager: questions that we can ask and some just a whole lot of takeaways that you can use in the book or or apply, but if i’ve got these roadblocks and in it like how do I start asking the right questions to maybe it’s to myself at first well.


markvictorhansen: Excellent question first of all, obviously you do to yourself.


markvictorhansen: And when you’re reading the questions in the book and ask yourself ask others ask God start to write them out, because when you write out the answers you have levels of illumination revelation insight wisdom.


markvictorhansen: And pretty soon when you ask those questions you go Oh, my goodness, I could do that and it’s a wake up, now the second thing to do.


markvictorhansen: Is you buddy up with somebody it could be your spouse, it could be a church brand it could be a business partner, it could be another leader.


markvictorhansen: It could be a telephone mentor a zoom link I don’t care how you do it, but if two people go through all these questions, they are transformative because our corporate symbol is you know, is a butterfly.


markvictorhansen: And what happens is everything caterpillar you can’t look at caterpillar and predict butterfly but we’ve all been in this coven.


markvictorhansen: lockdown which i’m going to call a cocoon rather than a chrysalis right now, and in a cocoon.


markvictorhansen: The only way to break through is with questions when I was bankrupt and upside down in 1974 and last $2 million a day.


markvictorhansen: I asked the wrong question I said oh my gosh What if I go bankrupt I checked the book at the library, how to go bankrupt by yourself.


markvictorhansen: And then for six months i’m sleeping in front of another guy’s room I think he probably heard me tell this story in a sleeping bag and I kept saying to myself ask yourself ask us God I didn’t really know that but I what am I want to do, and I said I want to talk to people that care.


markvictorhansen: But things that matter that would make a life transformative different I go to my three roommates in hicksville long island New York have breakfast I say guys.


markvictorhansen: I decided what I want to be, I think I want to grow up and be a professional speaker, do you know anyone that’s young that’s not a broadway actor because we’re.


markvictorhansen: In New York, not an actor actress a doctor or a lawyer or some sort of celebrity and bumped my age are a little older.


markvictorhansen: Guy said there’s a kid a little older to here’s my ticket I was going to go here them he’s phenomenal is chip college, you know, like.


markvictorhansen: I jump in my little beat up a Volkswagen a bankruptcy courts have not taken race out to hop on going on the order for three hours just kind of mesmerized everybody.


markvictorhansen: At the end of which I walk up to and I asked, I say chip a market grants and i’d like to may I asked you to lunch, I want to buy your lunch and you teach me how to do the speaking business.


markvictorhansen: He said look good chance you making this one 1000 you’re going to make it to go through a real business I said no, no, this is the one I want i’m convinced.


markvictorhansen: Let me decide, he said okay you stay out of real estate.


markvictorhansen: I own this business in the five boroughs area and you go into life insurance and I didn’t know I didn’t know what a life insurance was or premier or anything but I thought Okay, and I wrote notes.


markvictorhansen: called intend to the next day, the 10th guy he said, one in 10 would buy it what a great thing, and it was a giant I mean this guy weighed 450 pounds.


markvictorhansen: Naked to the know ink pen on I mean you just be use it on Tony i’m number one will not the ball from the number one company markets, the directory.


markvictorhansen: You call everybody there’s like seven at night, and you don’t big conical, and so I got talks like crazy, so I did a.


markvictorhansen: Tony robbins are talking once on a big seminar together and we talked backstage and each of us have done 1000 times a year, the first three years.


markvictorhansen: I mean, I was do the talking or selling talks in there, like 45 minute talks 20 minute talks, whatever they let me do and get paid for, and.


markvictorhansen: People kept saying, do you have that in a book and it’s amazing we did the book I don’t know where it is on the shelf here, but here it is like we did the book.


markvictorhansen: First book I did is called stand up speak out and when and.


markvictorhansen: I said to the audience and now remember i’m talking to six people 10 people never more than 50 and I said, this is not a new College so.


markvictorhansen: it’s not a national bestseller, but it is my best on, and I want to assign it to you, your wife your kids and if you got a dog, I want to put your dog in here.


markvictorhansen: David good this guy’s ridiculous, but all six of model six or 2720 would buy it I sold 20,000 copies from the little platforms in one year.


markvictorhansen: I went from zero to hero, again, I went from bankruptcy to earn 200,000 now today that’s like $2 million yeah and I thought oh man i’m in heaven i’m going to just go back and really right and think this stuff through and now 312 books later I think it’s going to work.


David Horsager: Well, and you know what’s interesting here is, I mean uncover something that people see the success now and certainly there’s perseverance in this work, we talked about doing the work.


David Horsager: But what was that, like on your family young kids all that I remember, I think a story, you told one time.


David Horsager: To me about just you’re both you know fall asleep on planes from one end of the country to the other when chicken soup was going going crazy I just think how did you, you know.


David Horsager: stay in touch with these the mentors you had the mastermind you had how did you keep up with your being a dad and whatnot you know.


markvictorhansen: By way i’ve never had anyone ask that question, but first of all thank you for the question and it’s true.


markvictorhansen: When jack and I first of all, nobody would take the book hundred 44 pills and an agent who you know I won’t name him.


markvictorhansen: But he fired us and that’s cost him like 10s of millions of dollars right so i’ll leave him out of this thing because there’s no reason to besmirch anyone ever if I can do it not do it.


markvictorhansen: We we went to the aba American booksellers We walked in and like we put together the best stories from different people and the first guy to come up to us.


markvictorhansen: We had a big beard and he look like Santa Claus except he was wearing a suit and I thought wow I think I kiss both cheeks and said boy, you really going to make it.


markvictorhansen: Let me look at your name tag who the hell, are you and it turned out to be a router Dr Robert full Jim the guy who wrote everything I need to learn, I learned in kindergarten which I mean.


markvictorhansen: i’m an addicted reader and remember, I was illiterate in school, you know from first grade two sixth grade, I was in remedial reading because my parents, we had no books that are also a guarantor Danish.


markvictorhansen: I lived in Denmark, I thought everybody went to the Danish brotherhood and Saturday night and.


markvictorhansen: A nice to filter and filter efficient stuff you don’t even know the names of and frack adele and stuff which is fine.


markvictorhansen: but luckily they taught me to read now morals best selling author, so it shows that you can track foreigners oh.


markvictorhansen: Any I said jack and I are there and the guy says you’re really going to succeed, big and he told me that jack jack or stand with me good, who is that I said that’s Dr phone tomorrow, one of our favorite.


markvictorhansen: He said why didn’t he talked to me you got me I don’t know I talked to me I didn’t look at once, and maybe it was just being nice to everybody, I don’t know.


markvictorhansen: Any so we get turned down by a lot more boots and then one little house health health communication at I took us because the guy said.


markvictorhansen: Yesterday you gave we’re there three days which we’ve been talking 17 days and rolling and I gotta go tell my wife oh my God.


markvictorhansen: you’re not gonna believe that i’m going over to the anaheim Convention Center for the next three days with jack and we’re bringing backpacks with a.


markvictorhansen: Three ring binders and we’re going to try sell ourselves because everybody fired up and they’ve already they’ve seen a pink slip back then there were a nice and wrote pink slips say kiss your butt goodbye.


markvictorhansen: Anyhow, that one of the Gary seidler the two partners said I read it, I cried all over my my shirt if you.


markvictorhansen: promise to buy them at $6 each and buy 20,000 copies, you know, over the next year will publish it will we were both doing seminars jack and I separately, about a quarter million people a year.


markvictorhansen: I was doing business people, mostly and heavy and life insurance and mlm big churches and jack was doing the educational market, so we had some big markets.


markvictorhansen: And we sold the seminars everywhere, like one of the stories we have in our asked book.


markvictorhansen: We just got to write for the book published Charlie green ones and man, I saw you at a mega church here in Kansas city said I couldn’t believe that he said.


markvictorhansen: You love the audience here, we had them spiritually alive and then at the very end, you said okay look I got this manuscript nobody’s going to take it.


markvictorhansen: I want you to pray that we’re going to sell a million copies of this book oh chicken soup for the soul, he said I couldn’t believe that everybody got prayed we did it stood up and praying.


markvictorhansen: And then, he said, you did the coup de gras which I really couldn’t believe there’s 5000 people and you say.


markvictorhansen: By the way, I don’t want to take away from the ties or love offerings but all of you have a little slip there, I want you to fill out an order form.


markvictorhansen: And when the book comes out, I promise i’ll sign it and send it to you and I get doctor came to do the same.


markvictorhansen: And I really wanted this book somebody’s going to publish it and I need you to trust me and he said to a person in the room, that means a very rich church obviously help fill.


markvictorhansen: In I mean good Charlie was only I mean he’s big in the Church, he was a deacon the Dickens or whatever the joke is but.


markvictorhansen: But he said I help collect he said I want your bucket full of weeds that couldn’t believe it, he said you were so bold, to ask, I said.


markvictorhansen: I have nothing to lose a minister liked me and the Church, the people thought wow I should grow up and be that courageous to go out and ask and do stuff that I haven’t been able to do, everyone needs to come out of this.


markvictorhansen: cocoon we’re talking about this coven cocoon to ask morning and we got to get back on track, it working and living and entrepreneurs and leading into people that you’ve got you’ve got to be visionary leaders, could I say either.


markvictorhansen: going to be a visionary leader that lead and you can’t hear.


markvictorhansen: I need us to be first place again mentally in lead yourself and then lead others.


David Horsager: Speaking of leading yourself a lot of great leaders are you know we talked about the slot trust leadership, they they.


David Horsager: they’re leading yourself there if you’re going to lead others you tend to lead yourself well, what did you.


David Horsager: What do you do, do you ever teens habits worried, this is what I do to leave myself what am I, you know what am I doing daily weekly, monthly lead myself, because you have a massive voice of leadership to others, what are you doing to lead yourself, or have you over the years.


markvictorhansen: Perfect I love the question I want to go to the macro and into micro what I actually do, but the macro is in psalm 72 Solomon said the job of you and I, as leader is to be an influencer of influencers I when I read that I highlighted it nice put a star, by the way.


markvictorhansen: I could be an influencer an employer Sir sorry it’s I started but that’s it so every day good, let me go back to a story, we put into book.


markvictorhansen: When crystal our fall in love long long ago we’re sitting at the mothers marketing coach makes me feel in California, we now live in loves scottsdale Arizona.


markvictorhansen: Guy sit next versus the old man of the cloth mean serious mature guy 97 he said look I can’t help but interrupt you guys are so in love you mind if I tell you the secret to staying in love.


markvictorhansen: And like i’m going to say no, I don’t want to know any secret, he says i’m had a billy Graham relationship ministries for last 70 years i’m 92 years old, I said well congratulations father.


markvictorhansen: yeah I said, what is it, he said, people that pray out loud together is the only thing we found that keeps people together, so my wife and I, you know did before we got married and obviously everyday sense and we spend an hour every morning praying and meditating and visualizing what is.


markvictorhansen: Asking each other all the questions, how do we unfold today to be more magnificent more wonderful for each other and for our kids or grandkids our family our city or state or country and the world.


markvictorhansen: And source and service levels that has never been sourcing served it like we are.


markvictorhansen: Co Chairman of child hope, right now, which is busy raising a billion dollars and we’ve helped 10 and a half million kids get out of abuse neglect.


markvictorhansen: and child trafficking that’s one of the things we’re doing and I think, then, the second thing we’re doing is.


markvictorhansen: we’re about to do a podcasting and invite you to help us with hopefully get 15 million people help but.


markvictorhansen: What we’re going to do is because the library has been closed off for a year, which is not okay with me just like bookstore is going out of business, not okay I love those all those people in the book business and.


markvictorhansen: they’ve been superior to me, so this is not an indictment on anybody it’s it’s uh let’s get back to work guys and ladies.


markvictorhansen: And we’re all the libraries have agreed that we’re going to have this wonderful day and we’re going to America is becoming a literate because people are reading too much.


markvictorhansen: Too much facetime on on their cell phones kids i’m talking about 75% of kids in in California can’t read when they graduate high school and.


markvictorhansen: I don’t know where you’re at, but I have to believe that you agree with me that that’s not okay.


markvictorhansen: So what i’m going to do is ask one third of the seniors and baby boomers guys and ladies like me will take now in the ratio, I take 10 kids and mentor them a year but.


markvictorhansen: i’m going to ask everybody to take just one kid go to the library read teach him or her, how to read it’s not it is a doable.


markvictorhansen: assignment in America, and then we got to change that and expand the whole world, because I believe, and I think you do as a leader.


markvictorhansen: You know the cliche I think it was john F Kennedy who said it all great readers are leaders, but all leaders are readers and if it wasn’t john I don’t know who it was, but we look it up and you want to claim.


David Horsager: lots of people have said it and lots of people have claimed it.


markvictorhansen: But remember jack and I are in the business and trying to do attribute you know, but who the heck knows right i’m.


David Horsager: pretty sure was Abraham Lincoln but you know.


David Horsager: Denise everything great.


David Horsager: Well, you know this this gets me thinking about it, you know we’re going all over this the way I do it because you jog my mind on so many things, but you kind of a framework.


David Horsager: Your as far as philanthropy Europe passionate giver these days and you’re doing a lot of great things with your time talent treasures, but you talk about four types of types of tithing thinking time talent and treasures.


markvictorhansen: Right.


David Horsager: We get treasures quickly we get talent quickly we get time quickly, what about thinking.


markvictorhansen: Oh, first of all, I wrote a whole book called the miracle of tithing right which is really good the miracle of giving and that’s where I quoted all that and I said then, the fifth one two bonus one is being thankful.


markvictorhansen: You got to have the more you’re thankful for the more you get we, the reason I sell more books anybody is that we tie then every book.


markvictorhansen: And you know that’s a front end guaranteed, you know, open up the windows of heaven a $40 ritual or but all you gotta do is fine cause related charity winter in trouble, and let me just give you two that were example so.


markvictorhansen: Elizabeth goal, who would have been a great President, by the way, said hey mark i’m head of the Red Cross and you got these crazy ideas and sometimes I work.


markvictorhansen: I should thank you and she says i’m on a blood and I said well let’s get it from the mdm they watch blood and guts every day and make sure it helps you said i’ve tried 570,000 mth they won’t help.


markvictorhansen: In other words, I think, by the way, now i’m doing my position i’m on my soapbox.


markvictorhansen: But if you are your kid needs blood, I think you ought to go and get 10 of your friends to give blood back to report we don’t have anything called pseudo blood.


markvictorhansen: So if you go to the hospital and you need blood that’s, the only thing that is blood compatible, for your blood that makes sense.


markvictorhansen: yeah so she said well come up with another idea it’s at how fast you needed yesterday that’s a good one week, she said, you can do that I said, one of my markets is chiropractic I have gotten.


markvictorhansen: I get 10 honorary doctorates three from chiropractic colleges at life and in Cleveland and Parker so I said.


markvictorhansen: I know all 77,000 chiropractors, I teach them how to have high volume massive practices in cash practice know that.


markvictorhansen: i’ve never asked him for anything i’m going to ask him to call all their old patient and bring them in and the.


markvictorhansen: Patients and get an adjustment or an activated gun or getting massage or whatever they do at the practice and a lot of these practices are.


markvictorhansen: multimodal practices and they hire mbas to work for them so it’s great stuff but they see 25 million patients, a week.


markvictorhansen: And I said guys and ladies you’re in trouble, right now, because insurance stop paying you i’m going to make sure you get paid because I just done this set of audio tapes right interviewed all the people.


markvictorhansen: The best chiropractors make over a million a year by doing cash only no insurance.


markvictorhansen: And we saw a lot of those but we gave a copy of chicken soup for the soul treat everybody that came in, to give blood well we get enough blood to be cryogenically frozen for a year and a half in advance, we took two negatives, and you remember in math and negative times negative is a.


markvictorhansen: Positive positive right we get chiropractic in trouble because they’ve just had their funds cut right follow the money we had.


markvictorhansen: we’ve had the blood saying a lot of people are dying nine people a minute we’re dying because there is no blood at the end no blood at the hospital sorry I shouldn’t use a spiritual of reference hospital, I spoke, I never did that, before I apologize.


markvictorhansen: I don’t want to miss merge anybody, but the point is there’s every problem has a solution that’s why we’re saying in our ass book.


markvictorhansen: What you gotta do is get somebody that’s willing to think out of the box and do stuff that no one’s ever thought about before.


markvictorhansen: And and ask bigger questions like right now we got eight a billion people unemployed in the world somebody’s got to think at a new level and that’s why the last part of the book where you and I started, even before we started the recording.


markvictorhansen: We got Peter diamandis, who is a PhD md Harvard md PhD MIT genius X prize creator and Peter says, what do you personally going to do during this decade to positively affect 1 billion people.


markvictorhansen: that’s the question everybody when you drink that question in as a leader you start saying hey wait a second I gotta quit being amateur hour here.


markvictorhansen: You know I got to be a visionary leader and remember what Solomon said, is without vision we perish if you put that in English with vision we flourish.


markvictorhansen: So I really want to help a billion people learn how to read that don’t know how to read now do I know how to do that heck no.


markvictorhansen: Do I know that I am taking a crazy leadership position that i’ll get attacked for by some people saying we can’t do that, by the way, that’s fine with me, because any leader as a.


markvictorhansen: target on his or her back, I think you know that right.


David Horsager: You want to be critiqued for living lead something.


markvictorhansen: yeah.


David Horsager: or write a book.


David Horsager: or or give a speech right you’ll get.


markvictorhansen: It the world’s best selling author and you got a lot of.


David Horsager: arrows coming at you, and a lot of them.


markvictorhansen: And I always write my critics back way if I see it, and I say thank you very much, I just really appreciate that I don’t agree with anything you said because blah blah blah but.


markvictorhansen: here’s what I, this is what i’m doing and, by the way, when you got a credential that you really can now if they get something legitimate to say I will Rebecca.


markvictorhansen: i’m coachable that’s one of the things a good leader is, I think, and i’m coachable and I accept coaching and Trent and we say, one of our 38 points is.


markvictorhansen: He backs breakfast of champions but, but if you have something asinine I don’t like it, because of the way you look I can’t do much about that.


markvictorhansen: Right i’m bald it’s the way it is cow.


David Horsager: How do we start to how do we start like that there’s so many places, I could go and I can highlight different you know i’ve highlighted a bunch of.


David Horsager: a bunch of parts of this book we’re not going to get through it all people got to get the book asked, but how do we start to ask the right questions, how do we start to this journey it’s like some people think Oh, they just ask you just good at it or not, how do we start.


markvictorhansen: there’s no such thing as good at it or bad, first of all those little kids you ask everything I don’t know if you’ve got any kids or grandkids you’ve got in kids.


markvictorhansen: For or they see you know, I was one of four crystal is one of nine and then we got five and six grandkids we’re big on kids.


markvictorhansen: The point is, is that you’re going to know where you are because, if I call uber here to my house they got to know where you are Where are you today, and you gotta ask yourself and then go through all that stuff.


markvictorhansen: And then the second part is one where everybody’s stumbles almost 99% appeal stumble where do you want to go.


markvictorhansen: Right and I was stumbling until I said look, I want to grow up become world’s best selling author, which people said you haven’t even written a book, can you want to be let’s get out of here.


markvictorhansen: It did you go to the nth degree what what actions are you going to have to take to get from here to there.


markvictorhansen: and obviously what you asked about it before and I may not have done it like we’re going on to today’s show there’s Longo and with oprah and all that and jack and I are.


markvictorhansen: Getting up in the morning good media all day doing a lunch and talk during the late night talk before.


markvictorhansen: All that travel restrictions, you can get on a plane at 11 go to the next place and start all over again, but we.


markvictorhansen: get to New York got five though tell like one o’clock he still has three piece suit we had no money so we’re sharing same room.


markvictorhansen: Different beds, of course, and he’s sleeping in a three piece suit and I got to wake them up at three o’clock us at five o’clock you got to be at NBC begins on katie couric and matt lauer.


markvictorhansen: And and most people don’t know that right you’re going to be there for three hours, but you got to be there, an hour early and i’m saying jack you gotta get up and he was saying nasty words to me, and he said.


markvictorhansen: I suggest you don’t want to be katie Kirk you don’t have to me.


markvictorhansen: I didn’t go and do it alone i’m big enough, I can handle it.


markvictorhansen: And we were exhausted, and it was exactly what you said, if you’re going to do a real leadership job you got to ask yourself, who I am.


markvictorhansen: Who am I becoming and where do I want to go what is my full fledged flat out destiny and you got to ask all the way and then, if you got problems, you asked.


markvictorhansen: Hopefully you got a great mentor and your mentor mentee relationship and hopefully you’re mentoring and then you got to ask your staff.


markvictorhansen: When it comes to you with a problem you said, David if you’re coming to me with whatever problem, it is in a company, I said, well, what are the three solutions you have and come back to me tomorrow or an hour for now, and tell me the best one of those three solutions love it.


David Horsager: You know it’s funny I was just talking to just had someone else on the show, and she was given also a biblical reference of back to your mentor piece, she said, we need to have a Paul we get wisdom from we now Timothy.


David Horsager: We need to have a.


David Horsager: Someone were pouring into.


David Horsager: An a you know we need someone that’s going to challenge us like Nathan, we need somebody.


David Horsager: that’s going to encourage us like barnabas and this this tribe, that we need as leaders and we often say it around here if you’re doing leadership alone you’re doing it wrong, we need others and that’s a back to your.


David Horsager: start as a collaborator to some people, that seems you know oh my destiny is this is all about me i’m asking questions, for me, and it seems selfish, what do you say.


markvictorhansen: It has to be.


markvictorhansen: let’s just take you know when I was in with bucky I wrote my hundred year goals, all the stuff i’d like to do i’m going to be 120 seventh options will know, because you get to write down all your living living on.


markvictorhansen: The cake, the richest man in the world, right now, is one of my heroes Elon musk, whether you like him or not is irrelevant to me, but you gotta admit his leadership style is solid.


markvictorhansen: I mean here’s a guy is still no you can’t build a more tesla’s here at whatever it is fremont California and say says Okay, I understand what you said, Mr Governor, but let me see what I gotta do.


markvictorhansen: Calls up 3am company and says hey guys you haven’t got the ability to make enough ventilators I have 3D printing.


markvictorhansen: i’ve got manpower I got metal sitting out there just give me the thing and we’ll split 5050 and tell me how many want and I haven’t done like that.


markvictorhansen: Except that when he did it David he’s a real leader see we don’t have any real leaders now as far as i’m.


markvictorhansen: i’m now in dating some people i’m asking them to wake up, be a real leader and i’m a real leader so i’m glad to skin and confronting window.


markvictorhansen: But I am here’s my he’s my hero right he made 90,000 cards became the richest man in the world.


markvictorhansen: And now, this week, he says look in six months i’m going to have two things are going to have a battery about the size of your thumbnail that goes a million miles and your car is going to be so light we’re going to have a new flying car it’s going to be.


markvictorhansen: Equivalent robo taxi because of spacex, which is one of the five companies, he is you know he made 500,012 years old and with his brother and then he did PayPal with the Peter Teal then.


markvictorhansen: goes to Stanford he economics undergraduate degree, and you know it is just amazing what he has pulled off and then.


markvictorhansen: You know, he says, because of spacex I figured out how we can have a vertical liftoff vehicle negotiate straight ahead.


markvictorhansen: And people are saying no you can’t do that Well, no, no, they can’t do it Boeing can do it like he can’t do but he’s not locked into the same.


markvictorhansen: metaphysics and, by the way the top physics bucky always use teachers metaphysics thinking consciousness awareness and you know going into God and saying hey God show me how to do this.


markvictorhansen: And, and it turns out that alone is exceedingly spiritual in an elevated ascended consciousness like his hero Nikola tesla if I go I probably went too far again tonight.


David Horsager: it’s your we want to hear from you so yeah so what what gets is I mean part of this is, you know Elon musk is asking different questions right.


markvictorhansen: I did all of us have the same 24 hours, all of us start off with the same value of $1 and the dollar is invaluable and to figure out how you ask yourself how am I going to use this.


markvictorhansen: to advance myself and he had to sell all of his real estate with the last year just to keep this company, going so he and I admire the guy because.


markvictorhansen: When I had a hiccup back in 2008 I have to click crazy watches, and I have a cell every watch to stay afloat and.


markvictorhansen: You know just what you have to do you got to do and and everyone thinks well you’re rich and successful and you sold all those books, you can have a money problem.


markvictorhansen: You try to borrow serious money from your friends and you find out that you do have a money problem because.


markvictorhansen: Only serious friends will lend you serious money and most of my friends, who I thought would lend that kind of money and add it wouldn’t do it, so it taught me a serious lesson who’s real who’s not.


David Horsager: You know, in the in the end of toward the end of the book you talk about questioning everything tell us about that.


markvictorhansen: Well, give me a topic and i’ll show you how to question it from my point of view at least.


David Horsager: Well, you know what i’ve got two of them that I really highlighted, in fact, one of them was your you know how you keep your romance and love life, like you, vibrant and so maybe a couple thoughts there and then just the whole.


David Horsager: i’ll jump into the second one, when you answer something about that about that.


markvictorhansen: Let me wind it back just a little bit I went through a very painful divorce and I thought i’d never married again and told a lot of my friends that I wouldn’t and I wrote down 267 things.


markvictorhansen: In my ideal world for qualities or values of virtues of characteristics, we had both be totally monogamous we both had she had her own business, because I don’t want somebody marrying me from a wallet.


markvictorhansen: We had to have exactly the same values and what I wanted was a soulmate and what I got was a twin flame somebody the mirrors me 100% like we can finish each other’s thoughts and.


markvictorhansen: she’s young girl by 14 years she’s beautiful she’s wonderful and our kids had to get along and we decided that we’re going to make.


markvictorhansen: happily ever after our happily ever after every day and so every day during meditation and prayer that we do together every morning like clockwork.


markvictorhansen: Early usually before podcast once while we have early podcasts in foreign countries and then do it afterwards, but we’ve never missed a day and and decades so.


markvictorhansen: We decided we’re going to our relationship with each other is paramount, now we figure out what that means, with our kids grandkids businesses and because we’re involved in a lot of stuff a lot of charities we you know help out and we say this is what I think we can do and.


markvictorhansen: We can make it happen and let’s talk this through.


David Horsager: So, so you, you tell us tell me another level of like okay to my partner my wife 24 years married what what would I, how would I use questions to.


David Horsager: deepen our love.


markvictorhansen: Good asked her what question she should be asking you that you’ve been naive dash.


David Horsager: Perfect spot to start.


is a nice place loving.


David Horsager: Jesus asking questions back and forth here don’t answer, by the way, there’s never a time that you won’t have a wife tell you what you should be asked, never.


David Horsager: Well, something another part that was, I think, is relevant to everybody and you make this comment in the book.


David Horsager: I don’t have the page, I have my notes on this part, so I can’t go through all of it but don’t try to sell ask what they need.


David Horsager: And you have a client a strategy I think that’s beautiful with questions that we would just ask you know.


David Horsager: Ask about them first ask about their problems, ask what the ideal would be asked asked about you know what’s the perfect scenario for them tell about that process because everybody here.


David Horsager: is listening, you know we are growing businesses are have businesses are leading businesses, and I think some people take that wrong.


markvictorhansen: Okay, so we go into the biggest company here in Arizona is called as they manufacture most the copper for the world right.


markvictorhansen: For report MAC Moran I mean we’re talking about $15 billion profit here we’re talking about a major company and i’m not one selling but.


markvictorhansen: Preston weeks we wrote the story about goes in and and this lady is so powerful in this company, you know, to get.


markvictorhansen: You personally gotta pay homage and because I do my homework before we go and I knew that she was an Africa for eight years in the Congo.


markvictorhansen: And you know, to me, that is just exceedingly exciting I could care less about her business, I went all ever told me about the Congo, so, first of all, we build a report relationship, but then.


David Horsager: My wife, by the way, was a missionary kid in Congo Well now, the Democratic Republic of Congo.


David Horsager: yeah wow.


markvictorhansen: Congratulations and tell her Thank you.


David Horsager: yeah cool.


markvictorhansen: By the way, I did it’s irrelevant anything but i’m you know, one of the guys, I read wrote the book Congo and Michael not that not that the guy wrote every kind of.


markvictorhansen: blinking is a crime, Michael crichton wrote the Congo and I don’t know if you read it, but it just in a.


markvictorhansen: Great way anyhow back to the thing so Preston just does this whole thing of asking questions and you’re going to give us 20 minutes, and she did 20 minutes and just the Congo and then.


markvictorhansen: Now he now an hour and a half, two hours is gone by and they said.


markvictorhansen: We gotta tell you yesterday a $64 billion company came in and said pop up up up up up up, we got this this this this, this is what you need.


markvictorhansen: Is what you got to do and and they said we kicked him out for guys that were seasoned professionals that were insulting to yes, there are $64 billion company yes we’re $15 billion profit come in, but you just don’t put.


markvictorhansen: right they had no relationship ability questions are always going to be the answer, but if you ask the right question, you can get anywhere in the world kind of give a quick personal story.


David Horsager: anyways please love it.


markvictorhansen: So when I met crystal we’re at I did the author, one on one and number two VIP room and grounded by people late at night on a Saturday night and she’s across the way and Lady.


markvictorhansen: hits a glass of red wine my wife and drinking and wiped out or white pants well, I see this I parked the car grab her hand I said I know where the the.


markvictorhansen: The whatever that stuff is it gets rid of a stain and pants and here not.


David Horsager: scarred or something.


David Horsager: What scott’s got or.


markvictorhansen: No, no, no.


David Horsager: it’s looking.


markvictorhansen: Anyhow, I remain on blank on but that night, I had the answer.


markvictorhansen: I asked her along a megan short guy take you to dinner, and she said yeah we get to the best place in Hollywood.


markvictorhansen: And I mean aligned 50 people long and I go $100 bill is going to get any insight there, I will just charge up to the gatekeeper and he sees how beautiful my wife is I mean she’s been a top marlin Star and all that a lot to magazine covers and stuff and says Okay, I give up who issue.


markvictorhansen: I said you don’t recognize your num goofing around.


markvictorhansen: And not getting any way.


markvictorhansen: and his mind’s going on steroids, and through people magazine and install and vogue and you can’t figure out he thinks she’s a movie star good she has a she has supper.


markvictorhansen: presence and effervescence and Pluto trueness just emanates out every pore of my wife’s being and anyone who doesn’t.


markvictorhansen: can go look at the pictures on the line with us and you’ll see that you know I pale in comparison and I, you know i’m so blessed anyhow so guys is OK, I give up, who is she now we’re both of Danish to set so i’m goofing still I say she’s a Queen of Denmark.


markvictorhansen: He says no she’s not this oh my gosh she is who are you back to questions I said, who travels with the Queen or the King hold on.


markvictorhansen: We had the best table in place and chefs coming out with a homeschool fan.


markvictorhansen: And club soda is what gets stains blood and sorry I couldn’t you know my mind was so far from telling you that anyhow so.


markvictorhansen: And we just we started talking and just cheap gone through divorce I going through divorce was like.


markvictorhansen: we’ve been best friends forever and i’m saying for those that are single out there, there is some perfect person, no matter what your chronology know assuming.


markvictorhansen: you’re over 21 and probably marriageable you know there’s somebody out there for you there’s a billion peoples of 4 billion or women more or less so, you know play a chance.


David Horsager: Plenty chance wow this has been fascinating I could ask questions all day and i’ve got an honor your time here, this is um wow.


David Horsager: I might one of my favorites the last five minutes was questions are always the answer there we go questions that if you haven’t put that I don’t remember that in the book.


markvictorhansen: But it was one of those lines and area just is great yeah and I didn’t put it in my quote book a long time ago and I hope I didn’t steal that from somebody that being an omnivorous reader, it is possible, but I did it and.


David Horsager: Abraham Lincoln.


markvictorhansen: By the way, he was a trusted leader and had a tough go of it and.


markvictorhansen: I have to come from his home state at least what they claimed it was his home state of Illinois so i’m i’m scholarly in him and low levels and Dale Carnegie wrote a book about them, and you know when I was there, so I even know that stuff so.


David Horsager: How do you keep you know i’m just gonna just open up here just to touch base on a little bit of leadership and just some things i’m thinking about you stay.


David Horsager: How do you stay so fresh and creative you’re reading well that’s one thing you keep reading you’re not just a writer you’re a reader but.


David Horsager: What are some of the things you do to just stay, you know fresh you’ve you’ve written on so many things, financial and relational and life, and you know you become an expert in several different businesses, how do you keep this a little bit Elon musk ish.


markvictorhansen: yeah Well, first of all, I think you should never retire I did write the book like he said with art linkletter how to make the rest your life better life and he was 98 the only reason he died is not as help he missed his wife, who had.


markvictorhansen: I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings or but she got alzheimer’s and he couldn’t handle it and she died, and then you know she wasn’t with them, she didn’t remember him in.


markvictorhansen: Like a month before he died he called crystal I up because he loved us or Daddy on other Kentucky fried chicken and Mexico, with which I did not know until you know we were up there, that was not my you don’t ask what is your Daddy on right.


markvictorhansen: You know what do you do I just I mean I met her dad and the first thing he did, is he put his hand in the bag and pulled out a pro handle a gun and I Idaho and I said well look i’m a pretty good shot myself, but I would like a gun if we’re gonna have a shootout you’re over your doctor.


markvictorhansen: And he and I became great friends, he was a superstar.


markvictorhansen: Wait where’s your question I.


David Horsager: Totally, so I think there’s just a piece here I think it’s.


David Horsager: Interesting to me how do you keep innovating me keep I could answer some of it for you, but you keep fresh some of that’s books some of that’s that you’re asking the right questions, but just staying so creative any any other anything else.


markvictorhansen: The people you hang out with your you’ve got to be alive like and I gotta tell you that, because you’re a podcaster and a great one.


markvictorhansen: Is it is it I believe podcasting is a new when I grew up in the 50s we had the first TV and a block my dad.


markvictorhansen: Financing for the rest of his life for $700 and back then nose and 50,000 giant money right, but everyone will come and watch our TV in or three channels.


markvictorhansen: It turned the question is what channel or you turn to and if your turn to positivity and stay positive.


markvictorhansen: And i’m saying everybody’s got to shut off the negativity and the news now it’s just it’s too blatantly painful.


markvictorhansen: and distressing and depressing and it takes you down rather than up so if you listen to positive stuff like i’ve got all kinds of stuff on audible like i’m sure you do.


markvictorhansen: And you listen to all that stuff and the stuff from Nightingale conant new stuff that brings out the best in you, and then you hang out with really positive minded people natural I was going to go.


markvictorhansen: I have it may just be who I am but all the podcasts that have accepted us and put myself for myself crypto on every one of them has been positive, everyone have been uplifted every like we’ve done three today, and they were just all of them, it were exalted spirits they’re not dull boring.


markvictorhansen: Because I can tell you that in the old days when jack and I did it we used to have to carry the radio shows like we would do.


markvictorhansen: Once we are doing media, sometimes we do five or six would call foreigners.


markvictorhansen: A day and those guys they never read the book they never saw the book they didn’t know what the book was, and you know so they’d asked you a question well how are you today i’d say the reason we wrote check chicken soup for the soul tell you how to have a good day each and every day.


David Horsager: I I I gotta jump here just because it just came in from my face was the practice leadership group out of New York, and this is biblical drew to it’s a guy to Harvard die, you probably know it, but he was just I was just listening to him this week, and he was talking about how.


David Horsager: We brought up a lot of biblical this time so Christians, he said, basically they’ve been known for these seeds, in the last decades they condemn or they critique or they.


David Horsager: You know just consume stuff but the only way to change things for the better is to create or cultivate, we have to be about it can’t just be about condemning we.


markvictorhansen: can be blurry eyed add a third see they got to curate.


David Horsager: There you go and you’ve got your contribute and charity, so we got to get to the lightning round I I just you’ve been such a massive gift and such a.


markvictorhansen: Love every second.


David Horsager: yeah well I got it let’s get some quick quick takeaways and lightning round one.


David Horsager: A favorite tip for everybody, or advice financial.


markvictorhansen: Well, the question is obviously earn more than you spend, but the other read my one minute millionaire book, because what I do is I say hey look i’m here to create a million millionaires and there’s a million ways to make a million and there’s one white perfect easy.


markvictorhansen: acceptable way to each of us, and today you’ve got to have a million for every reason and many millions of minimal if you ever want to retire and I don’t want anyone to retire on put on new tires and go out and do better direction.


David Horsager: Right perfect one best piece of advice for leadership.


markvictorhansen: I would ask everyone to consider going into the deepest secret place of the most high inside their consciousness and figure out what are they as the biggest visionary leader that they could be in.


markvictorhansen: Today we’ve talked about Elon musk but i’ve read 5000 biographies and autobiographies i’m i’ve been hired to write a big biography.


markvictorhansen: And i’ve never done it for and i’m really excited but this guy was a visionary that I can’t talk about yet because we got an nda but.


markvictorhansen: Everybody needs to study the visionaries and become a visionary everyone’s here to be a history maker a record breaker the Bible says you’re.


markvictorhansen: In the Asians you’re god’s greatest masterpiece if you’re god’s greatest masterpiece you’re supposed to do masterful things not minimal things and, yes, the church did some terrible things because.


markvictorhansen: anytime you got a full group you’re going to have some corrupt people some few percentage, but if you look at them, then you become like that, so, if you look at the best the brightest, why does the mother teresa’s she says i’m just a pencil in the hand of God, what a great line.


David Horsager: Absolutely what is of.


David Horsager: me i’m going to ask you this because you know my parents are in their 90s still continual learners.


David Horsager: still run.


David Horsager: They still run the farm definitely not retires but I love how they’re learning even to talk to their grandkids and now great grandchildren to technology and other things what’s a favorite tech or APP or gadget for you.


markvictorhansen: Well, first of all, art linkletter not when he was in 96 when we wrote the last book together and then he said look we’ve taught her kids how to read, they got to teach us how to use technology and I just thought that’s so cool art.


markvictorhansen: And he did kids into darkness things and people are funny and house party.


markvictorhansen: That my favorite I would say, I live too much on my cell phone just because I carry with and and when I I actually six to seven days a week aggressively.


markvictorhansen: Because I think it’s part of the fountain of youth that plus extraordinary nutrition so.


markvictorhansen: I am listening to extraordinary podcast by guys like Brian Scott net that just he has taken all the historical classics and put them together that, and all this stuff by Dr Tracy Jones.


markvictorhansen: Well i’m sure you know, is Charlie tremendous Jones his daughter, and is a great leadership profound military superstar you know come trainer power exxon’s.


David Horsager: What is it’s been that what is that well let’s go here you just said it what’s your what’s some exercise habit that you have.


markvictorhansen: I do well, first of all, we live at the top month on month we climb the mountains, a couple times a week and it’s just big tech, as I look out my window here my office.


markvictorhansen: is spectacularly beautiful I gotta tell you right now it’s 70 degrees Arizona, as in right now we’ve had so much rain it.


markvictorhansen: Our mountains or green our arrows pristine it just there’s very few people here Arizona is a basically empty states as big as Israel, as you probably know.


markvictorhansen: So yeah I do mountain climbing, but we also we bicycle and I were part of the villages, so I do every kind of calisthenics and muscle training because.


markvictorhansen: You age at the level that you don’t take care of your body and Peter guber is at and looks 40.


markvictorhansen: You know the first time I went to his $62 million third house.


markvictorhansen: We arrived and it’s 930 on a Saturday night, and it goes to suit up and I thought oh my gosh am I supposed to have a tuxedo this is, I got aloha shirt and he said no, no, get on your exercise clothes.


markvictorhansen: And I said, what do you tell me, he said, Peter want you in a gym and in 10 minutes and I said okay I got gym clothes with it’s easy.


markvictorhansen: And, and he exercised twice a day and that’s why you look so good, and you know he’s really vigorous I mean.


markvictorhansen: we’ve run together played rugby together slam together we traveled around the world together just you know the guys in superb shape and you know he’s at and most people at at a gun I need my cane, you know that old think.


markvictorhansen: where’s my.


house.


David Horsager: I think this is where my dad could could keep up dead mom i’m.


David Horsager: so proud of them it’s like 40 below zero up there, right now, and they’re like yeah I, I have to do indoor exercise when it gets the 10 below so they um.


David Horsager: Anyway, then they just yeah so favorite favorite book or resource, right now, other than ask bridge the bridge from your dreams to your destiny some other book or resource it’s inspiring to you right now.


markvictorhansen: Right now, I just got the dollars want you it’s an old classic book costs $4 on Amazon is inspired me to write the whole new iteration i’m writing right now, you money wants you in medical title.


David Horsager: it’s cool.


markvictorhansen: It could be it’s going to be a big book, I was reading what I wrote last night, a couple hours to my wife and she said.


markvictorhansen: wow that was totally inspired I said I just saw that guy’s title and I thought we had to redo it because.


markvictorhansen: You know how to have self mastery of opulence is a subtitle because everyone look God only knows abundance he built the universe 15.7 billion years ago if that’s the true number i’m not a geologist or a.


markvictorhansen: Cosmetic dentist or cosmologist but you know i’ll buy that term and built the earth 5 billion years ago if all that stuff got created and it’s perfect, then you and I have got some perfection, and we can spirit can figure out how to solve any problem that exists, I really believe.


David Horsager: what’s left for mark Victor Hansen what’s it what’s one hope for the future bucket list or just to hope.


markvictorhansen: i’ve got 10 mega goals and and everything for like how’s on how do humanity expeditiously an admin considerably before i’m 127 and.


markvictorhansen: Take all trash and turn it into cash and we i’m part of a company called QC is Manfred the chairman call me today but we’ve got.


markvictorhansen: They spend a million dollars in Michigan and figured out a QC I how to.


markvictorhansen: Turn glass back to glass metal to metal, plastic plastic water water and we can take the 10,000 landfills and turn it back into a resource, because we can’t keep polluting the earth that I got to the privilege opening the pyramids down in Guatemala.


markvictorhansen: With the head of anthropology and archaeology at Harvard if i’d write something for National Geographic which I thought.


markvictorhansen: I let me get your degree I didn’t ever think I get right for it, you know it just it tickled me and for two weeks we sweat her butt off 220 degrees.


markvictorhansen: But we’re talking about a culture that had 10 million people to build these great pyramids as great as is Egypt and we are 200 feet on the ground, a.


markvictorhansen: long story, but the point is is that they killed themselves because they didn’t think through their own pollution pollution killed, I mean doctor said, turn out say every morning we’d argue about what.


markvictorhansen: You know, questioning each other what kill these people wasn’t a temperature and virgin was a an asteroid hit the earth what the hell that killed that many people that long ago they had six lane I way these guys.


markvictorhansen: And we don’t have any we can’t read cache and this guy would stand on top of a pyramid there was one every 30 miles, if you look at it.


markvictorhansen: Look at this stuff on everyone knows, to call or if you study anything about pyramids it’s bigger than any of this.


markvictorhansen: Egypt pyramid but he had written and concrete something but but bill can’t indicators eternal said look mark, can you think that is it.


markvictorhansen: Now i’m pretty good at linguistics but I know, English and I know, German and I know, Danish and Hindi or two, but I know you got me here I don’t have a clue and nobody knows what the hell, the language was because they all died all the ones.


markvictorhansen: You know i’m saying I said to bill, and what we wrote, as my supposition is that they didn’t know about germs and germs and all that so they polluted themselves just innocently but you know you know you put 10 million people together he’s gonna have a lot of garbage.


David Horsager: So there’s one of your 10 mega goals well there’s, this is a, this is a good inspiration have mega goals to change the world.


David Horsager: It has been a huge honor I have one more question for you, even though i’d love to talk.


David Horsager: All evening.


David Horsager: I go well yeah i’m gonna keep I could keep going but.


David Horsager: I i’m so so grateful for your time our audience the trusted leaders are grateful for your time today and.


David Horsager: Before I get there, though, where can we find out more, we have all the links to you on the chat at trusted leader show.com but where would you especially like us to find out more about mark.


markvictorhansen: With your permission, so number one is I want everyone to get a copy of as.


markvictorhansen: A meeting up to copies and given to a friend and go over it, please.


markvictorhansen: Ask the bridge from your dreams your destiny at Amazon for sure, and any bookstore that’s open that have them we’d love to have that and then number two and then number two is it.


markvictorhansen: I want everyone that leader to write a book, because then they find out who they are, and i’ve just finished a book called you have a book and you and you can get it really inexpensive if you go to Hansen.


markvictorhansen: institute COM Hansen institute COM and we are helping everybody now from soup to NUTS everything up with the title i’ll help you with the book will help you speed write it in 90 days.


markvictorhansen: Because we need leaders that lead I.


markvictorhansen: beat on you throughout this thing David I hope not too hard, saying we need more visionary leaders I don’t think you disagree, if you do i’d be surprised running a show like this.


markvictorhansen: But what if everybody really started delete them so started to discipline themselves started to grow started to learn started to share because.


markvictorhansen: Everybody is an expert at something and everybody can write something to somebody that that nobody else can share because they don’t know it.


markvictorhansen: And we need to have that elevated consciousness, because everything comes out of ideas and consciousness and we’re at the first time in history.


markvictorhansen: Where we can share a conscious thanks to back to our friend Elon musk he’s putting up right now 40,000 satellite in building a new Internet that’s going to be on hackable unbreakable military group cyber group and you got to say that’s like way cool and very gutsy and very expensive.


David Horsager: Absolutely, you know I knew, you were writing that new book i’m glad you put it in there we’ll put that in the show notes absolutely.


David Horsager: But I think there’s several things that happen on your second book there that the when you write a book you do learn about yourself, you have a book in you right.


David Horsager: You learn about yourself, which helps you that back to Socrates, you know yourself to if you’re going to lead yourself, you know yourself and then you can share that vision with others, so.


David Horsager: last question, unless you want to say anything else to us today, this.


question.


markvictorhansen: Go ahead.


David Horsager: Give your all ears.


David Horsager: last question is hey it’s a trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why let’s move beyond alon you’ve got a lot of them, but but who’s a leader you trust, right now, and why.


markvictorhansen: By the way, i’ve got so many that I that I like love trust respect and admire in my business there’s a guy who’s changing the book business invisibly to you and most people Joseph todo es to he makes a fortune, but he’s created funnels and he’s created how to make sure.


David Horsager: I do know him, by the way.


markvictorhansen: Okay well.


markvictorhansen: He will write them a note.


markvictorhansen: When we’re done and asked him to interview you, but he doesn’t do many but he’s a genius and he’s.


markvictorhansen: i’m thankful to say he’s a great close friends, I mean the people like back to what you said about collaboration of people that i’m working with blow my mind, because or I listened to, but I go yeah yeah yeah.


markvictorhansen: i’m good i’m so thankful we’re at a time when, because of transportation travels zoom Internet we weren’t able able to get with people literally around the world and it just and they’re all they’re wonderful.


David Horsager: Well, that that was a fun and I know there are so many you could have named but i’m going to text Joe right after this and and let you know, let him know that he is.


David Horsager: we’re you know we’ve hired him we he was a friend before that we were in a mastermind group before that and.


markvictorhansen: I had no idea.


David Horsager: You know, and I know that that’s fantastic so.


David Horsager: check out the show notes at trusted leader show calm you’ll find everything about mark Victor Hansen, please say hi to crystal Dwyer Hansen, and just a huge thanks to her and her contribution to the world and through these books and everything you’re doing.


David Horsager: As a partnership so we just are grateful and just a huge huge huge, thank you, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 26: Josh Linkner on How Everyday People Can Become Everyday Innovators

In this episode, David sits down with Josh Linkner, New York Times Bestselling Author, Global Innovation and Creativity Expert, Founding Partner of Detroit Venture Partners, and Chairman and Co-Founder of Platypus Labs, to discuss how everyday people can become everyday innovators.

Get David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Josh’s Bio:
Josh Linkner is a Creative Troublemaker. He has been the founder and CEO of five tech companies, which sold for a combined value of over $200 million. He’s a New York Times Bestselling author and a globally recognized expert on innovation and creativity. He’s the founding partner of Detroit Venture Partners and has been involved in the launch of over 100 startups. Today, Josh serves as Chairman and co-founder of Platypus Labs, an innovation research, training, and consulting firm. He has twice been named the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and is a recipient of the United States Presidential Champion of Change Award. Josh is also a passionate Detroiter, the father of four, a professional-level jazz guitarist, and has a slightly odd obsession for greasy pizza.

Josh’s Links:
“Big Little Breakthroughs” (use code TRUSTED for access to the Toolkit with FREE resources): https://www.biglittlebreakthroughs.com/
Website: https://joshlinkner.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshlinkner/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCClYbC0H2Q-bXPaFCo1188A
Twitter: https://twitter.com/joshlinkner
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joshlinkner/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joshlinkner/

Key Quotes:
1. “Creativity often is a mash-up of things.”
2. “When people get super focused in a particular discipline, they actually become less creative.”
3. “We can be innovative not just on the big stuff, but on the small everyday stuff.”
4. “Think small.”
5. “All human beings have enormous reservoirs of dormant creative capacity.”
6. “There absolutely is a process and methodology by which all of us can become more creative.”
7. “Everyday innovators don’t wait.”
8. “The only thing that supersedes accountability is trust.”
9. “You really show your character when things are tough, not when they’re good.”
10. “Fear is the biggest blocker.”
11. “Fear and creativity cannot coexist.”
12. “If you want to change the outputs they say you got to change the inputs.”
13. “Connect with something that really inspires you creatively.”
14. “We are all creative.”
15. “Chase two rabbits and both will escape.” Chinese Proverb
16. “Failure is part of the innovation process.”
17. “You can’t be sheepish when you go back after it.”
18. “If you’re taking your failures with you to the next time at bat, you’re almost ensuring the next failure.”
19. “Somebody has to be the best, it might as well be you.” Josh’s Grandma
20. “Success is a temporary state in the context of many external factors.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Ballot Bin: https://ballotbin.co.uk/
Tally Tracking App: https://growthbundle.com/
“Think Again” by Adam Grant: https://amzn.to/3dwKPvp
Audible: https://www.audible.com/
“Big Little Breakthroughs” by Josh Linkner (use code TRUSTED for access to the Toolkit with FREE resources): https://www.biglittlebreakthroughs.com/
Detroit Labs: https://www.detroitlabs.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager i’ve got a special guest today we’ve been in a kind of a mastermind unique group together.


David Horsager: He is a five time five exits as an entrepreneur value over $200 million and exits he’s The co founder of planets post labs he’s a venture capital.


David Horsager: Investor he’s a professional level jazz guitarist and he’s up twice named Ernst and Young entrepreneur of the year, he is that creative troublemaker please welcome josh linkner thanks for being here josh.


Josh Linkner: David truly a pleasure to be with you, thank you well.


David Horsager: he’s a leader, I trust, ease are really just he thinks differently, and you know josh that’s that’s one of the things I think your.


David Horsager: way as we’ve talked about innovation and creativity and you’ve had your hand in so many things, many people say focus focus focus and you’re kind of this Richard Branson in a way right So how do you, you certainly show the creativity, but how does that mix with focus.


Josh Linkner: Well, you know it’s interesting creativity, often is a mash up of things, in fact, the name of my you know consulting business planet labs a platypus the animal it’s got like the bill of one animal and the tail of another animal it’s kind of weird mash up.


Josh Linkner: and actually creativity is often like that, so when people get super focused in a particular discipline, they actually become less creative.


Josh Linkner: And it’s really the people who can borrow from lots of different parts of life and and put it in the blender and shake it up in a different way, that that ultimately yield even better creative results so for me it’s been a blessing, not a purse.


David Horsager: What do you, what do you do in a platypus these days.


Josh Linkner: So we help organizations around the world, people like Cardinal health and Honda and, of course, smaller groups as well.


Josh Linkner: build a culture of innovation, we help them tackle tough challenges and sees new opportunities by giving them the tools.


Josh Linkner: to innovate forward so we help sort of build this this skill set this resource of creative Problem Solving and inventive thinking to help them grow and help them thrive.


David Horsager: inventive thing i’m going to get down to personal in a little bit to you because I know we both are on the road, a lot you’ve I can remember the day at least one of the days you, you know your.


David Horsager: flights and helicopters and everything else to make for big events in one day but let’s stay back there what what what is innovative thinking, what does that mean okay.


David Horsager: I want to be more innovative everybody listening wants to be more innovative, we want to also you know if we didn’t see the pandemic company pandemic coming we sure wanted to do a pivot in the right way at the right time, how do we think that way, how do we become more innovative.


Josh Linkner: Well, first we got to dispel a couple of myths, so one method, I hear all the time is innovation only counts if it’s a billion dollar idea or if it changes the world.


Josh Linkner: And that’s nonsense, we can be innovative, not just on the big stuff but on the small everyday stuff.


Josh Linkner: And in fact when you’re innovative on a daily basis, you can do a little teeny micro innovations.


Josh Linkner: it directs the process you build critical skills, because you get better at it, it becomes part of you of who you are and all those little events is add up to great stuff so I encourage people often to think small first of all.


Josh Linkner: Second, of all it’s the research is crystal clear that all human beings have enormous reservoirs of dorman creative capacity.


Josh Linkner: Now we can be creative in different ways, like I play jazz guitar pretty well I can’t draw a stick figure if I tried.


Josh Linkner: So just because someone listening doesn’t doesn’t do creativity in the classical sense of like.


Josh Linkner: You know, oil on canvas doesn’t mean you can’t be creative as a salesperson or a finance person or a customer service person or a mom or a Community leader and so when we think about.


Josh Linkner: Everyday people becoming everyday innovators that’s when I laid up that’s what i’m all about it doesn’t have to be the next ilan musk you and me, and our kids and our spouses and everyone on our team, we can all be innovative and that’s that’s to me the real beauty of it.


David Horsager: So how do you encourage your team like we want our team to be more innovative, we certainly created in one of our business units a massive pivot this year and I was so proud of them, and it was part of you know.


David Horsager: Partly brought on by the pandemic, but how do we create that howdy the micro like it give us an example, maybe run us through what would be a micro innovation today.


Josh Linkner: yeah so i’ll give you an example, again I call these big little breakthroughs, which is the title of my next book big little breakthrough is how small everyday innovations drive oversized results.


Josh Linkner: And let’s take a trip together let’s hop over to London.


Josh Linkner: So imagine you’re walking through the streets of London you’re marveling at the architecture and there’s bustling crowds, and all this history, and then you look down and what do you see you see cigarette butts all over the ground.


Josh Linkner: It turns out, the cigarette butts are the biggest little problem in Central London and, in fact, many, many cities around the world.


Josh Linkner: And all the things they’ve tried to do to stop this problem really felt like finding people are shaming them into compliance and you might think it’s just unsightly but it’s harmful for.


Josh Linkner: The environment and you know small kids or animals can adjust them and it’s pollutants, all these bad things so here’s an example of a big little break do.


Josh Linkner: there’s a guy that I interviewed for the book named trolling rustic and trolling is an average everyday dude he’s just like he’s not Elon musk.


Josh Linkner: He went to college and barely got through he took an ordinary job he’s trying to pay the bills, just like all of us.


Josh Linkner: But but true and had this this kind of passion for the environment, so he saw this little problem, and he said, decided to solve it with a big little breakthrough.


Josh Linkner: He invented something called the ballot Ben, which is a bright yellow metal container mounted at eyesight and the front of it is glass and if there’s a.


Josh Linkner: divider down the middle at the top it’s a two part question, such as which do you prefer hamburgers or pizza and there’s a little receptacle or smokers can vote with their butts.


Josh Linkner: So you put your cigarette butts in whichever slot like you, which food you like better, and you can see instant tally based on how many butts of stacked up underneath it.


Josh Linkner: And of course you can customize this to any two part question, it could be, which is your favorite sport or or you know do prefer blondes brunettes whatever two questions you want to ask here’s the thing.


Josh Linkner: When these ballot bands have been installed they reduced cigarette litter by 80% and they’re now in 27 countries.


Josh Linkner: And the thing I love about this story is like it didn’t take six PhDs and a billion dollars of capital and material engineering degrees and resources and equipment.


Josh Linkner: This is an average person like you and I could have easily thought of that idea and here’s somebody who is not famous he’s a normal person that’s using creativity to make a difference in the world.


Josh Linkner: And I hear stories like that it’s so much more inspiring to me than watching ilan musk or or Jeff bezos make an extra billion dollars, because that feels inaccessible, whereas trolling is totally within our grasp.


David Horsager: So I love that, is there a process, and once again the book is called big little breakthroughs how small every day innovations drive oversized results.


David Horsager: We will link exactly where you can get it, along with all the information about josh linkner and his company’s at the show notes trusted leader show.com but.


David Horsager: Is there a process to to just think a little more creatively, a process to think a little more innovatively to kind of you know, I think, part of it almost is like believing I can but what is there any process, you could give us.


Josh Linkner: There is an effect really that’s the whole source of my body of work over the years and, of course, this book.


Josh Linkner: I tried to demystify it, you know we think of innovation is like wizardry like you have to be imbued by the gods with some magical powers it’s actually much more like a magic trick.


Josh Linkner: When you see even the best magicians they don’t actually possess magical powers they’ve learned a skill and and the truth is that all of us can learn to develop that skill.


Josh Linkner: And so the book goes into we sort of dissect like How does an idea happen, what are the individual components, what happens when you put it under the microscope, what does the research say.


Josh Linkner: And then I really want people through the eight core mindsets of everyday innovators, which are sort of easy to digest easy to get get your arms around.


Josh Linkner: mindsets that people can put into action and, furthermore, we go into into depth on tactics, you know, most of us use brainstorming is that is the preferred tactic.


Josh Linkner: By the way, brainstorming was invented in 1958 i’m guessing we need an upgrade like a lot of things have changed since 1968.


Josh Linkner: So I actually have this whole thing called idea jamming I was holding idea toolkit where we provide much more fun modern exercises for like idea extraction.


Josh Linkner: Which but but long story short, there absolutely is a process and methodology, by which all of us, and I mean all of us can become more creative.


David Horsager: So you know the give us this we got to have a little secret sauce here we can’t go through all eight today but.


David Horsager: You know everybody’s going to hear it and it’ll be called as my friend, Jeremy says the sauce because we’re going to tell people, but you know the the full secret sauce is in the book.


David Horsager: But what is maybe one or two mindsets first and then maybe one tactic like Oh, I can see how this would be helpful, I can see some so, can you give us a couple mindset shifts first.


Josh Linkner: yeah absolutely again I it nothing secret here i’m happy to share the secret sauce because I actually really feel like i’m on a mission to help people become more creative and I am happy to share.


Josh Linkner: So a couple of the mindsets and these are studied through over 1000 hours of research and interviews with CEOs and celebrity entrepreneurs and we dove into you know how does, how does Lin Manuel Miranda and Lady gaga and banksy do their art so.


Josh Linkner: As well well founded, in substance, but a couple of mindsets i’ll share some of them are more intuitive there’s one called start before you’re ready.


Josh Linkner: Which is essentially the notion that everyday innovators don’t wait they don’t wait for permission they don’t wait for direction that away for a perfect game plan they get going, and then they course correct and adapt along the way.


Josh Linkner: But there’s some actually more more strange funny ones, one is called don’t forget the dinner mint.


Josh Linkner: Which is the notion that before you ship a piece of work product, it could be an email, it could be a keynote speech, it could be a financial report.


Josh Linkner: What could you do to plus it up like what’s an extra teeny little extra dose of surprise and delight of creative surprise and delight.


Josh Linkner: That makes your work transcendent and that the return on investment is gigantic that’s a high leverage activity, because a 5% extra dose of creativity could yield 100% or more results.


Josh Linkner: Another fun one real quick in terms of mindsets is I call it use every drop of toothpaste use every drop of toothpaste.


Josh Linkner: And the notion here is around being scrappy and sort of you doing more with less figuring out how to be resourceful and using ingenuity, rather than relying on external resources.


Josh Linkner: You know, when I talked to people about being innovative most people say i’d love to I want to, but I don’t have fill in the blank I don’t have enough money I don’t have enough time I don’t have enough raw materials that are enough degrees.


Josh Linkner: etc, and so what this does actually turn that on its head and say Okay, what can we do when we are resource constrained.


Josh Linkner: And by the way, I thought about this many times, think about this, if the amount of external resources, you had equaled your level of creativity.


Josh Linkner: The Federal Government would be the most creative organization on the planet and startups would be the least, and of course we know the exact opposite is true, so those are a couple of mindsets there’s eight of them, but those those are a couple ones to get you started it.


David Horsager: I love it so So if I take one of those is there a tactic like being said, we can start to use tomorrow, like is there a tactic like let’s start at that first first phase, even.


David Horsager: Or maybe the brainstorming tactic i’m thinking about thinking through a problem, how can I think about this problem or creatively.


Josh Linkner: yeah so that the techniques that you use think of them as tools and let’s say you were you had an oil in your backyard and you got you know the.


Josh Linkner: Little plastic sabo from your kids from the beach like that’s going to take you an awful long time to get oil and you’re not going to pull the extract it.


Josh Linkner: Obviously, if you had commercial grade equipment different story so brainstorming is the equivalent of that that plastic shovel it’s just not that good so let’s Let me share some tools that are much better.


Josh Linkner: here’s one for you it’s fun it’s called the Judo flip the Judo flip, and so the Judo flip is basically as follows, you take a look at what whether you’re facing a problem or an opportunity write down.


Josh Linkner: What are the things you’ve always done before what is conventional wisdom dictate what do most people do.


Josh Linkner: then draw a line down the page and just ask next to each entry what’s the polar opposite What would it look like, if you Judo flipped it.


Josh Linkner: And that oppositional thinking just forcing yourself to consider the polar opposite of what most people do can be very, very liberating just a super quick story that I just read like two days ago.


Josh Linkner: turns out there’s 65,000 Chinese restaurants in North America.


Josh Linkner: So how in the world if you own one do you stand out.


Josh Linkner: Well, most people what they do, the average average thing is, people are these a lot of puffery, this is the best Chinese chicken in the universe it’s the world’s best the New York city’s best egg roll whatever.


Josh Linkner: And it’s a bunch of puffery and we all have strong bs detectors to your point of trusted leader and we shut all that down so in this particular restaurant in Montreal.


Josh Linkner: Next to every entry on the menu there’s a printed something called owners comments, and so we did the opposite of Judo flip it so one of those comments is.


Josh Linkner: I don’t really like this dish I think you prefer the other one.


Josh Linkner: and other ones like this one’s a little little too much salt I keep trying to get him to use less of it another one is don’t try taking this thing home it gets really mushy.


Josh Linkner: Another one is you might think this is authentic but, honestly it’s not authentic at all in this particular dish and so he gives me his brutally honest completely transparent commentary on his own food.


Josh Linkner: And, first of all it’s hysterically funny it separates it from the competitive set here we are talking about this one out of 65,000 Chinese restaurants, not because he did what everybody else does it’s because he Judo flipped it.


David Horsager: I love it.


Josh Linkner: So just a couple of quick tactics, because I want to make sure people aren’t for battle.


Josh Linkner: Another really fun one so Okay, we get together to brainstorm and what do we do we share our our safe ideas, not our crazy wild ones and largely because of fear fear is the single most.


Josh Linkner: poisonous force that holds our creative thinking back and and by far that’s a bigger Blocker than natural talent so actually to really fast wants to break through that number one I call it roll storming.


Josh Linkner: role storming so role storming is brainstorming in character you’re taking on an actual real world brainstorm challenge but doing it as if you are somebody else.


Josh Linkner: So, David instead of you being David in the room, and now you’re saying well i’m going to be judged by my ideas or what if I say something that looks foolish.


Josh Linkner: you’re playing the role of Steve Jobs or Hemingway or darth vader and so you can pick any character, you want real fictitious it could be a sports hero or a movie star whatever you want.


Josh Linkner: And you literally pretend that you are that character, because when you’re that person you’re no longer responsible for the idea it’s not a reflection on you as a human being.


Josh Linkner: So that’s a really fun one yields amazing results i’ll just share real quick it’s called the bad idea brainstorm.


Josh Linkner: So we get together for brainstorm presumably we want to have good ideas, but we generally anchor them in the past and we end up having these kind of puny incremental ideas.


Josh Linkner: here’s the way works two step process step one everybody in the room, set a timer like eight minutes, whatever and.


Josh Linkner: brainstorm bad ideas that good ones what’s a terrible way to solve it what’s the worst possible thing you can think of what’s unethical and immoral and illegal and and you know too expensive, or whatever, so you come up with just terrible ideas.


Josh Linkner: it’s hysterically funny the whole team is energized everyone’s laughing and you fill the Boards with all these awful ideas.


Josh Linkner: Now importantly step two step two is where you then take a minute and look at all the bad ideas and say wait a minute.


Josh Linkner: Is there a little gem in there is that a little something is there a pattern a nugget that I could flip.


Josh Linkner: To take it from a bad idea to a good one, so the idea here is you take your creativity way to the edges and then yes you’re ratcheting back to reality, later on, but it’s much more effective than fighting the gravitational force of going bottoms up.


David Horsager: Fantastic I love, I am enticed trusted leaders are enticed I mean this is this is really, really, really, really great usable stuff what I love about josh is.


David Horsager: grounded in research, like we love out of the Institute, but also usable tomorrow morning, and so I love it.


David Horsager: So you know josh you’ve sold businesses combined value over a couple hundred million dollars what you know Britain New York Times bestsellers before you you’re doing all these things you’ve been a part of 100 startups or.


David Horsager: Whether that’s intimately or you know vc or certainly advising, and so we tell what’s it take to have a successful startup today.


Josh Linkner: Well it’s a lot of it is opposite what you think you know, first of all, we think that it’s about an entrepreneur that fills the room that’s charismatic like Steve Jobs actually the best entrepreneurs are much more thoughtful often not that.


Josh Linkner: larger than life they’re humble they give credit to others it’s not about themselves it’s about the success of the team in the business.


Josh Linkner: They lift other people up rather than push other people down, so I think one thing, it takes as an open minded coachable.


Josh Linkner: You know humble leader who has empathy and compassion and again, these are skills that you don’t often associate with business success, but I truly believe that they drive drive results.


Josh Linkner: I think another thing is that a real commitment to your to the customer i’ve heard so many companies talk about the financial model and how much money they’re going to make and then you’re like well how are you helping a customer like what.


Josh Linkner: And I think not losing sight of that you know you’re there to serve any businesses there but it’s a service or product to deliver value to real paying customers.


Josh Linkner: And, and not just in a way that they’re an annoyance that will just try to catch their checketts that you’re really there you know your hearts got to be into providing real value to them.


Josh Linkner: And so, when you push the creativity on providing real value to customers I think that’s something that sounds so obvious but is often missed.


David Horsager: think that was the Einstein quote we’ve heard it before, but you know don’t work so much at being a success work at giving value right and.


David Horsager: A huge key, in fact, one of the things we saw this year, especially last year, the pandemic and everything is.


David Horsager: We noticed empathy is more important than ever before and leaders and, in fact, our our annual study phone 90% 92%.


David Horsager: of people would trust their leader, more if they were more transparent about their mistakes people stop at transparency because.


David Horsager: Oh transmit no it’s not transparency it’s transparent about their mistakes willing to admit when they did it wrong and willing to lift others up when the team succeeded and and defer the good right.


Josh Linkner: yeah can I actually did, can I tell you a quick story about that it’s so it’s it’s a very personal one for me and it’s about a screw up that I did I didn’t write about in the book or anything I just thought.


Josh Linkner: was thinking about you today, and your incredible body of work around trust, so I was building my company, it was called enterprise, we were sort of like half ad agency and have software company.


Josh Linkner: And in one year, I sent a bonus program up there was terribly flawed like it was awful.


Josh Linkner: Because it was binary if we hit the target, I think it was like $40 million in revenue at the time, everybody got a sweet bonus if we missed it by one penny everybody about got nothing.


Josh Linkner: So, again to conceive totally my fault, I was a CEO.


Josh Linkner: But it did work to like drive performance, so we all anchored around that goal every we had charts and graphs and scoreboards and we’re done in heart so on December 31 David I get a call from my see my chief.


Josh Linkner: Sales officer, so he says josh we did we hit the 40 were like at $40,200,000.


Josh Linkner: And I gotta tell you like, I was deeply moved, not because I was greedy I didn’t care about the money honestly I just wasn’t.


Josh Linkner: proud of my team we accomplished something together, and so I immediately fired off a note to everybody congratulations you guys did it everyone’s getting their bonus.


Josh Linkner: So the bonus, according to the plan was going to be paid like 45 days after the end of the year, so we could you know get the counting straight and all that.


Josh Linkner: So about a week before the bonuses to be paid my CFO comes a knockin he says josh you know that $40 million i’m like yeah wasn’t a great he said yeah we got a problem.


Josh Linkner: He said turns out, we double counted one deal and we didn’t calculate for a particular cancellation, so instead of just making it we actually just missed it.


Josh Linkner: Now, keep in mind, I already told my team like weeks before that they were getting this bonus and and they like put deposits on new houses and sent you know.


Josh Linkner: signed up their kids for camp, or whatever, so I go to my board of directors and I said guys like here’s the situation and their first response was sweet we don’t have to pay a bonus this year.


Josh Linkner: And and, by the way this is over a million dollars of cash.


Josh Linkner: collectively and and we were successful, but we didn’t have like you know, a job we weren’t Amazon like we’d have lots and lots of extra money, this is meaningful amount of money.


Josh Linkner: And so I so they said and rightfully so, by the way they not putting blame at them, they were a fiduciary board and they said look.


Josh Linkner: You don’t get a super bowl trophy for almost making it into the end zone, and we have to celebrate accountability and like we didn’t hit the result you don’t get the championship.


Josh Linkner: And I said I hear you and I agree with that I said, however, to me, the only thing that supersedes accountability is trust.


Josh Linkner: I told all those people that they are getting their bonus, so we had an ethical debate for a while, then I finally said look put aside what’s right or wrong, because if you look yourself in the mirror, you know what’s right.


Josh Linkner: But let’s just look at the economics here that million dollars, I argued was gone, whether you like it or not.


Josh Linkner: If we don’t pay the bonus it’s going to come out in the form of bad morale employee turnover someone to walk off with a laptop like it’s gone.


Josh Linkner: Or we can look at it as an investment in who we are, you know you really show your character when things are tough not when they’re good and now is the time it’s tough.


Josh Linkner: So for the next week, David it was like the Cuban missile crisis, I was taking heavy artillery fire for my board of directors, but here’s what ended up happening.


Josh Linkner: I gather my whole team together at the time, I think, was about 500 people or so.


Josh Linkner: I explained in absolute detail here’s the email I got here’s the numbers here’s the cancellation here’s the date notes from the meeting with my CFO.


Josh Linkner: We did not make the bonus everybody is legally entitled to zero, and by the way, totally my fault I own it I know buck buck stops with me and I paste it has any blame.


Josh Linkner: I said that are positive side, however, the only thing, in my mind that’s more important than accountability is, you have to know that I have your back and that we have each other’s back so therefore we are paying every penny of that bonus on time.


Josh Linkner: The motion of that room that day like there were tears streaming down people’s faces I was getting bear hugs from grown men.


Josh Linkner: And, and I did it because it was the right thing, but, by the way, best million dollar investment I ever made because.


Josh Linkner: years later, people were like if we had a tough problem with a client people would work all night on it and people would pour their heart and soul, we had almost no voluntary turnover.


Josh Linkner: On job interviews candidates would come in and say I heard what you did, I want to work there, I never told the story to anybody.


Josh Linkner: But my only point is that, when we think about trust it was I understand you know your body of work to me it’s not only the right thing and, by the way, is the right thing.


Josh Linkner: But Besides that, in addition to that it’s also good for business and I again I just really admire the work you’re doing and I just wanted to share that story to a degree, I guess that might be using creativity, but, but you know that that’s what happened.


David Horsager: Undeniably, well, we are you at all the time, we believe, a lack of trust of the biggest expense in an organization or an individual even a global government on a corruption issue or whatever so.


David Horsager: That affirms that you know i’m not this is your interview, but you did make me think about something I don’t share very often and and this whole transparency kind of.


David Horsager: humility thing and it’s not a shout out to me, but I just I remember this, my daughter were out for a walk she’s maybe 13 years old, my oldest she was the oldest at the time she’s now 18 but she said.


David Horsager: we’re just talking and she said, you know this was a time when I was really busy in her years I was flying all over the world.


David Horsager: And that we were maybe at the height of our as far as just a speaking business now we’re you know doing all these other things too, but, but basically.


David Horsager: And she said dad you wouldn’t understand I don’t know she was talking about boys or academics, or what you’re perfect and right, then my heart sunk because I knew it’s great to be their hero at three years old.


David Horsager: But at 13.


David Horsager: We got an issue, and she hadn’t seen she saw me fly out she saw me do this, she saw me, you know get picked up by a Sedan or whatever, and I am.


David Horsager: She hadn’t seen when I lost all of our money you know buying a business that we lost everything on in two weeks before she was born she didn’t see me do this do that whatever all the things my wife and everybody else knows.


David Horsager: Right and she sent scenes on this and and I I made an intention on our walks and I just started sharing some place I blew it now, by the way, she’s 18 she’s seen plenty of things, but I mean.


David Horsager: At that time, see you you’re coming out of that.


David Horsager: When you’re perfect dad thing to you know your and and she.


David Horsager: I just searching I blew it here I missed it there, I was imperfect I didn’t I wish I would have treated my team better here, I will showed it on that during.


David Horsager: And what happened to our relationship, it just changed forever.


David Horsager: And now she shares things with me and now you know I think there’s this whole thing on like that bad news, you shared, of course, a big part of that story is you follow through above and beyond, but there is something people say.


David Horsager: You know, be transparent and they want to connect and we don’t connect on greatness.


David Horsager: That you are an all state football player, we didn’t even connect on that you sold companies for $200 million or this or that we connect on the mistakes.


David Horsager: I can relate to that Oh, I did that and that that’s what I am bring that back to your startup that one of the first thing you said on startups as we really.


David Horsager: The best leaders are often humble thoughtful leaders, and I can say the same thing about the the the CEOs that I work with her know you know.


David Horsager: So anyway.


Josh Linkner: Just a side so you’re so spot on and not only is that again, you know deeply connecting on a human level, it also back to my my love of creativity that drives creativity.


Josh Linkner: As mentioned, you know fear is the biggest Blocker and so, if a CEO says, I want your creative ideas.


Josh Linkner: And then, but, but the person doesn’t feel safe sharing them because maybe they’re going to get sent to corporate time out like you have no creativity, fear and creativity cannot coexist, and so the best leaders.


Josh Linkner: it’s not they don’t think of that that their organizations creative.


Josh Linkner: Atomic particles are just themselves it’s everybody everybody’s an innovator, and to do that, they have to create a safe culture, just a quick example back to your point about screwing stuff up.


Josh Linkner: The one company that I work with issues every team Member to corporate get out of jail free cards each year.


Josh Linkner: here’s what they say they say listen creativity is everybody’s job and and to have good ideas we’re going to have to have some bad ones are gonna have to have some some screw ups, so I want you to go out and take responsible risks that’s part of your job.


Josh Linkner: And when you screw something up cuz you will hand is a card you’re off the hook no questions asked and, on the annual team.


Josh Linkner: Performance reviews a leader will be disappointed with the team Member if they haven’t used both of them, so in this case, they sort of built a system around responsible risk taking, and that it’s okay to scrape your knees, from time to time.


David Horsager: I love it reminds me of way back when I was just starting to do some research and, if you remember MCI the mobile phone company, the new.


David Horsager: The new President made a $600 million mistake and they asked the.


David Horsager: The chairman of the board, I said, are you gonna I mean, are you know fire him look what he just did I mean was a big blow it right and they said no way we just paid too much on his education it’s kind of that okay we’re gonna make this safe to try and.


David Horsager: Whatever so so you know there’s more to you and we could talk business all day we don’t have a lot of time left, and we got leaders, you know we talked about high trust leaders and.


David Horsager: And you’ve been around many you are one What about you personally what what we you know we talked a lot about how to be.


David Horsager: To really lead others you got to be able to lead yourself how are you leading yourself these days are trying to at home, personally, we both have kids we both tried to be healthy physically spiritually emotionally what what’s maybe you got one or two routines you’d share.


Josh Linkner: Sure, well, the first thing you know back to the being you know, open and transparent is it’s not easy to do that, you know, like there are days you just want to.


Josh Linkner: don’t feel like working out and you want to eat greasy pizza like you know I mean so let’s let’s go back to you, your daughter’s comment about you being perfect.


Josh Linkner: let’s not hold ourselves to some level of perfection, and then, when we fall short inevitably were angry or disappointed or shamed.


Josh Linkner: Nor should we hold other people that way, so I think the best thing we can do is just recognize, first of all that we’re all we’re all human beings.


Josh Linkner: That being said, I try to I have an accountability partner I switch it every year.


Josh Linkner: People in my group, so we keep a little mobile APP what we called tally it’s free if I want to download it.


Josh Linkner: And we set up our key metrics that we’re going to track each week and then every week, we take a screen grab and.


Josh Linkner: and share it with each other, so we hold each other accountable, a couple of minor you know healthy eating I tried to do four to seven days a week.


Josh Linkner: I try to do, four days of exercise a week I do 100 and 210 minutes of learning every week so it’s really critically important to me to, if you want to change the outputs they say you got to change the input so i’m always learning reading, etc.


Josh Linkner: I do a morning ritual every week every day to to get myself sort of in the creative groove so i’m all about sort of those daily rhythms and habits and obviously I talk a lot about how to do that creatively in the book.


Josh Linkner: But I think also holding yourself and having an accountability partner is very, very helpful.


David Horsager: Accountability it’s so fun to hear you say that I don’t hear that all the time and we you know I talked about in my new book trusted LEADER I talked about the accountability group that changed me and i’ve been with them these four guys for 28 years and i’m a better.


Josh Linkner: husband, a better parent.


David Horsager: A better leader, because of it josh this book big little breakthroughs how small everyday innovations drive over sized results hey we got to get toward the lightning round here ready.


Josh Linkner: Fire away.


David Horsager: Fire away, how are you yeah you’re the expert in innovation and creativity what’s something you’re doing today to keep innovating or being creative yourself.


Josh Linkner: Well, so I still play guitar all the time that’s my one news, although I, by the way, everyone can have their own news, so if someone wants like digs poetry or interpretive dance do whatever you want, but connect with something that really inspires you creatively.


Josh Linkner: And part of my rituals that I do is, I have a five minute a day creativity ritual I won’t go through every element of it, but just to real quickly.


Josh Linkner: One minute, a day of guzzling creative inputs.


Josh Linkner: So I might start a painting for a minute I might go to YouTube and watch a live music performance or hear someone to spoken word poetry.


Josh Linkner: I figure I just let myself soak in the creativity of others, and then I also do like creative calisthenics almost like jumping Jacks I give myself.


Josh Linkner: an assignment for one minute so like what are 13 alternative uses for a pencil or if you ran.


Josh Linkner: If you were the President of Jamaica, how could you double the amount of Olympic gold medals you could win that year.


Josh Linkner: So just they’re not designed to have practical work product is designed to keep your creativity sharp so again, but just those two minutes a day those alone really feel my creativity and I think could be helpful to others.


David Horsager: Those would be absolutely helpful and I can hear what people are saying right now they’re saying.


David Horsager: Oh, my gosh where, am I going to find that I want to guzzle the creativity i’ll take the five minutes, but I think it’s gonna take me two hours to find the.


David Horsager: interpretive dance right, so what what do they get it we’re going to start on your five minutes just finding it quickly, because you know where you can end up with YouTube is just watching cat videos so what’s the what am I gonna do.


Josh Linkner: Oh, my gosh it’s so easy so just pick a medium you, by the way you could make them like Monday is art day tuesday’s poetry day so make you know give yourself less decisions.


Josh Linkner: And literally go to YouTube and type in like jazz saxophone soul.


Josh Linkner: And just see whatever pops up don’t don’t spend hours and hours looking for the best saxophone solo in the history of the universe just watch someone play great music.


Josh Linkner: And by the way, then YouTube will start suggesting other things i’ve gone down, as we all have down rabbit holes.


Josh Linkner: If you start populating with great creative works, instead of looking at cat videos you’re going to watch some amazing 16 year old singer from Sao Paulo do a beautiful Boston overruff so.


David Horsager: it’s pretty clever and the other on the other point, you know I think a lot of people are gonna say, well, I don’t think in terms of you know 13 alternative uses of pencils and and how I can.


David Horsager: get a team or gold medals from guam you know, so how I what am I going to start with, because I think those are greatly, this is your next book it’s a it’s a it’s a question, a day of hey wake up and think of 13 uses for pencils other than writing what.


David Horsager: What do you, what do you think what, what do you find that little spark because you’re already created a lot of people that are listening are saying, I want to be more creative, I want to, I want to work this muscle, but I don’t know where to start.


Josh Linkner: yeah so just real quick you’re absolutely right work that muscle so Personally, I believe that we’re all creative I don’t think i’m more or less good than anybody else.


Josh Linkner: I may have developed my skills more because I spend more time, focusing on it, but i’m no more creative or less than anybody else.


Josh Linkner: So, which is good news, because that means we all can learn this skill, just like all of us can learn a new language or learn to jazzercise or to play tennis you know.


Josh Linkner: So there to do it start simple you’re exactly right start simple try this for 30 days in a row, try to think of doing if they do it just think of one.


Josh Linkner: teeny tiny mini mini creative thing a day like, for example, next time you order pizza and say hey can I get them pepperoni under the cheese, instead of on top.


Josh Linkner: All you’re doing is thinking of something totally small that is different than what exists today you’re challenging yourself to think about what’s possible instead of what is that’s 30 days one idea you’ll you’ll be a game changer.


David Horsager: All right, we’re gonna come back to lightning round and one second before we do we gotta go for the producer question did you think of order talking Kent.


David Horsager: hey josh so as I was wondering, you know you work with a lot of you’ve worked with a lot of startups a lot of companies.


David Horsager: Do you see a common or a common mistake that startup founders make in the early stages that they could avoid and actually be able to grow a lot faster a lot quicker.


Josh Linkner: I absolutely do and there’s two quotes that kind of say the same thing one is the Zen and i’m sorry it’s a Chinese proverb, it says chase two rabbits and both will escape.


Josh Linkner: Which is essentially they try to do too much stuff and they end up failing they’re not being world class at it and the other quote that it’s actually a venture capital quote is more startups die of indigestion than starvation.


Josh Linkner: Which is exactly the same thing they try to go too fast, go to bed take on too many projects.


Josh Linkner: And they just end up scrape and their needs, they haven’t built this foundational infrastructure to do that effectively so i’m certainly not suggesting anybody slow down that’s not the goal here but it’s to be deliberate and thoughtful.


Josh Linkner: My first book was called discipline dreaming, which is really this yin and Yang concept of yes, you absolutely need dreaming, you need to be.


Josh Linkner: swinging for the fence tonight, but there’s got to be discipline as well, or else you become unhinged so it’s got to have that that sort of left and right brain balance, I think, to proceed diligently and just don’t try to bite off more than you can possibly chew.


David Horsager: Great answer, I agree with that 100% and i’ve been challenged by it several times in my life right so absolutely.


David Horsager: Can you can you tell us, before I get back to the lightning round actually just made me think of this you’ve had a lot of success, you built a lot, yes, sold a lot you’re sitting a lot.


David Horsager: But you can’t hardly be a venture capitalist and not see or have been a part of failure, can you tell us about a failure that you were personally a part of, and what you learn.


Josh Linkner: Oh man, we don’t have enough time i’ve got so many things, I just wanted i’ve interviewed billionaires and yeah they win more maybe, but they also fail, more so.


Josh Linkner: We have to really recognize and celebrate that failure is part of the innovation process.


Josh Linkner: I started a company called fuel leadership, it was going to be like coachella but for business people totally failed lost my shirt on it.


Josh Linkner: I started a technology inside my previous business called caffeine, it was going to be like a self serve.


Josh Linkner: Technology for small businesses to do the type of work we did for big companies totally failed lost my shirt on it so on and on, and I mean i’ve made huge mistakes.


Josh Linkner: But I think one of the biggest things I learned, frankly, is you can’t be sheepish when you go back after it.


Josh Linkner: You know you have to actually go back with with the same vigor that you had in the first place, because if you’re taking your failures with you to the next time at BAT you’re almost ensuring the next failure.


Josh Linkner: I will say this real quickly, though in the venture side of things.


Josh Linkner: I almost have like a social experiment so there’s this all this debate is a startup success the jockey or the horse, in other words the team or the entrepreneur or the technology of the product.


Josh Linkner: So almost identical time and I invested $600,000 each into two separate companies one company had a team and a see idea, the other company had an idea and a CT.


Josh Linkner: like clockwork the person with the C team managed to screw up there a idea I lost every single dime I took a total zero.


Josh Linkner: The other one eight person seed idea, managed to pivot and adapt their see idea into an idea, it became one of the top performing companies in my portfolio they’re still rockin today they’re wildly successful so go figure.


David Horsager: Great example love it all right here we go back to the lightning round so much to take away here everything guzzle creativity every every morning.


David Horsager: A host of of ideas from big little breakthroughs josh linkner his new book and a whole lot more here we go.


David Horsager: Your favorite book or resource right now.


Josh Linkner: I was i’m a crazy reader I know you are to David, but I just started reading Adam grant Adam grants new book called think again, I like 30% in and i’m totally addicted I love the guy was a fellow Detroit person originally, but I think he’s just brilliant and I love his work.


David Horsager: Okay i’m taking another veer off the, off the lightning round because Detroit I mean you talk about your right there in the middle of a turnaround city, we get a C and we work with trestle you know we work with cities we got.


David Horsager: Some of the biggest cities in the world, even countries we’re doing trust edge work but you’ve firsthand seen what a turnaround in Detroit can you speak to that for a second.


Josh Linkner: yeah so I was born in the city of Detroit not the suburbs, the city as where my parents and grandparents and i’ve had the chance to leave a lot of times I always wanted to stay and be part of it like this is a city with a soul.


Josh Linkner: And it’s funny like you know hundred years ago, Detroit was kind of the Silicon Valley of our country.


Josh Linkner: But, frankly, we lost our way and it gets back to creativity and innovation, instead of creating cool cars we started like administering automotive corporations.


Josh Linkner: And we built these stifling bureaucracies and you name a problem we’ve had it from racial divisiveness to political corruption to public safety issues.


Josh Linkner: All kinds of bad stuff but but it just like where there’s a forest fire, you know it makes way for new growth.


Josh Linkner: The City of Detroit right now is in in an incredible period of Renaissance there’s art galleries and buildings and construction and like there’s life and it’s just cool.


Josh Linkner: And so we still have a long way to go, it’s not utopia but it’s absolutely on the upswing, partly because we are reinventing we’re not just trying to rebuild the old Detroit we’re finally getting on with the hard work of creating a new one perfect.


David Horsager: All right back to the lightning round I love that i’d love to talk more about Detroit I you know used to be my least favorite city to fly through and now it’s moved up the ranks and that’s just a you know flying delta end up there, a little bit.


David Horsager: You know, going east, where either Atlanta or Detroit often so I know you spent a lot of time on delta like I do or have.


David Horsager: When you’re not flying private i’m pretty sure so let’s let’s jump back in here we go favorite a favorite there’s so many, but a favorite tech gadget or APP right now.


Josh Linkner: i’m going to get back to tally it just super easy and I keep a really clear sense of what i’m doing and it just keeps me focused like okay.


Josh Linkner: I get my reading it for this make that I do my daily workouts that you know, like it just keeps me focused and it’s just.


Josh Linkner: it’s not glamorous it’s just super effective the other one I just say started to is um is audible which is not new, or anything but just.


Josh Linkner: To be able to consume content when you’re in an airport when you’re on the treadmill when you’re whatever it’s just a wonderful gifts, for us to to make to compress time and so i’m constantly listening, even when I can’t be reading.


David Horsager: Absolutely way back to Ziegler calling an automobile university Now you can do it anywhere, while you’re walking listening driving flying and.


David Horsager: You can get your book that way remember trusted leader show.com you get the show notes and i’m grants new book and josh his new book and anything interesting we’ve talked about like tally or audible next up best advice you’ve ever been given.


Josh Linkner: best advice i’ve ever been given hmm that’s a good one.


David Horsager: And don’t get hung up on best maybe a piece when you got to do best it’s it’s hard isn’t it.


Josh Linkner: It is, it is hard um you know my grandmother gave me a piece of advice, at one point which is sort of this she said, no matter what situation you’re in.


Josh Linkner: A classroom business athletic field somebody has to be the best it might as well be you.


Josh Linkner: And it wasn’t any way being cocky or arrogant it wasn’t like that the intention of it was don’t let your own lack of belief hold you back.


Josh Linkner: because everybody on that field, or in that classroom has the same belief system and and and don’t CAP what your possibilities are you know give yourself permission to really go for it.


Josh Linkner: And you know she’s long past but i’ve always carried that around with me and I just think it’s something very meaningful to just like hey let’s focus on what’s possible don’t benchmark yourself against what you think you know the minimum threshold as you see, even go even further.


David Horsager: that’s up my mom said something similar, and it was always go the extra mile anybody can do it halfway right but love it someone has to be the best it might as well be you.


Josh Linkner: just say real quickly there’s a little clip on that that.


Josh Linkner: I i’ve given this advice, it was one segment I repeated again and again and again as i’m building my many companies that someday a company will come along and put us out of business, so it might as well be us.


Josh Linkner: So I flipped my grandma’s code, a little bit, but the notion is basically that.


Josh Linkner: We have to recognize that success is a temporary State in the context of many external factors that today are changing at a rate like none other in history.


Josh Linkner: And so I think it’s incumbent on all of us, both in organizationally and individually to like put our previous selves out of business, I truly hope that I put myself out of business, the job today six months from now i’m a different person I hope you are today because we’re always progressing.


David Horsager: Abraham Lincoln I hope i’m not the man tomorrow that I am today right, I want to be getting better learning changing growing love it two more questions here we go one.


David Horsager: bucket list or hope for the future josh linkner is hope for the future.


Josh Linkner: I think we’ve all been sucked into the political discourse over the last several years and i’m not making a party commentary.


Josh Linkner: But back to your point about trust and empathy and compassion I just hope that we can find some of that I hope that we can start finding the good and each other instead of slinging the arrows.


Josh Linkner: I think we’ve got to be able to unite in this country around the things that really matter that are going to set our kids up for our future and set ourselves up as a nation and stop just fist fighting and slugging it out in the mud.


Josh Linkner: To me it’s been really disappointing just because you know my kids CC this type of thing, and you know insurrection all that again i’m not making a political comment at all I just hope that.


Josh Linkner: I both sides of the aisle that we can inject some more empathy and trust and compassion, I think it’s desperately needed in this world.


David Horsager: Undeniably, I remember so enjoying sitting next to my dad and watching the debates and then I.


David Horsager: embarrassingly i’m showing my kids some of what’s happening in the last few different years of debates and it’s like well I don’t want them to act in certain ways and.


David Horsager: Certainly, so hey before we give the last question of the day, best place to find you josh and it will link all this in the trusted trusted leader show.com show notes, but best place to find you or find out about what you’re doing these days.


Josh Linkner: yeah simplest and easy to remember is just big little breakthrough is calm.


Josh Linkner: there’s all stuff about me there but but there’s also a free creativity assessment there’s all kinds of tool kits and goodies.


Josh Linkner: And there is a password required to get to the really good stuff and so i’ll make password for everybody listening today trusted.


Josh Linkner: So if you go to there’s like it says toolkit and you have to enter a secret code just use the secret code trust it and I know you could put that in the show notes.


Josh Linkner: But um it’s tons of free access to all kinds of goodies and worksheets and tools that hopefully can help everyday people become everyday innovators.


David Horsager: And we are continual learners i’m excited to go all the way through this book will be doing it here comes out for everybody in April, but you can pre order, right now, so with that the final question it’s the trusted leader show who’s a leader you trust and why.


Josh Linkner: You know there’s a leader of one of the companies that I started I don’t know if this is like the the all time best in the universe, or whatever.


Josh Linkner: But his name is Paul glovsky he runs a company called Detroit labs and we help to get that company off the ground, provided the early seed funding.


Josh Linkner: And he’s one of those guys again he’s not larger than life, he sort of TRIPS on his words from time to time you think of them as sort of understated but this guy is just.


Josh Linkner: he’s it to me exemplary of being a trusted leader, he walks the walk he’s humble he gives other people that credit.


Josh Linkner: And he’s just a man of his word you just know you know, to me, trust and I know you have a lot more research on this and me isn’t only are you telling the truth of that’s a part of it obviously that’s a baseline but.


Josh Linkner: It also means you know, do you deliver on expectations are you reliable, are you competent and to me he just checks up all those boxes and when I see people like that to me, those are the people that you just fall in love with and want to work with.


David Horsager: fantastic example often it isn’t the big the big celebrity show it’s the it’s the end and being the same onstage and offstage right just personally.


David Horsager: josh, thank you for spending these Minutes with us, with all of our trusted leaders and just forgiven your insight time i’ve got so much here, I know i’ve got.


David Horsager: two pages of notes other people do as well if they’re not driving I bet so thank you and thanks, thank you most of all for being my friend.


Josh Linkner: David right back at you Thank you so much for the great work that you do and continue to promote the much, much needed trust in our world so cheers to you and let’s keep being creative together.


David Horsager: Absolutely that’s it for the trusted leader show this time until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 25: Bob Stromberg on How To Master The Craft Of Creativity

In this episode, David sits down with Bob Stromberg, Comic, Speaker, and Creativity Expert, to discuss how anyone can master the craft of creativity.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Bob’s Bio:
Bob Stromberg delights audiences of all ages with his unique personal style of speaking, storytelling, and humor. His presentation is clean, casual, characterized by humility, and a healthy blend of knee-slapping comedy and encouragement.

In a word, Bob’s remarkable gift is his ability to interact with an audience, develop a warm rapport, gather people together, and facilitate surprising laughter with an arsenal of gifts including physical comedy, a non threatening touch of audience participation and yes…even hand shadows, which the London Metro described as “stunning”. Add to this hilarious, tender and thought-provoking stories from his own experience and audiences leave amazed and different than when they came.

Several surprises stand out in his long career. In 1995 he co-authored the hit play “Triple Espresso, (a highly caffeinated comedy)”. From its start in Minneapolis, Triple Espresso, described by the Los Angeles Times as “a triple jolt of inspired craziness” has been seen by over two million people in eighty cities from Seattle to London and, among many other honors, become the longest running stage production in the history of San Diego. In his role, the Chicago Sun Times described Bob as “a mesmerizing physical comedian”.

Bob followed that with his solo show That Wonder Boy, which Culture Buzz described as “One of the most substantive comical one-man shows ever conjured.” The show opened in several cities on its way to winning the three top awards, Off Broadway at United Solo Theatre Festival in New York City. That’s the largest solo theater festival in the world with over 700 shows applying and 150 chosen each year. That Wonder Boy returned to NYC four years later recognized as one of the top shows in the prestigious festival’s first decade.

For over forty years Bob utilized the power of creativity which lead to the creation of his online course “Mastering the Craft of Creativity”. He believes that we’re all made to create and through the course helps people to fill their own creative reservoir.

It’s also been his passion to advocate for impoverished children through the transformational work of Compassion International lifting one child at a time out of poverty. Compassion International gives children the one thing they need most, the one thing none of us can live without. They are given hope.

Bob lives in Minnesota with his wife Judy, occasionally perform his theater shows, and travels extensively as a featured comedian.

Bob’s Links:
Website: https://bobstromberg.com/
Bob’s Creativity Course (use code TRUSTEDGE to save over 80%): https://masteringthecraftofcreativity.com/

Key Quotes:
1. “I could always make my mom and my dad laugh.”
2. “I always knew I could make people laugh, and it always delighted me.”
3. “I’ve got to give this performing thing a chance.”
4. “Everything that I have created came from a place and through a process.”
5. “You need two words to really describe what creativity actually is: Gift and Craft.”
6. “You are not born creative.”
7. “We are all born with a desire and a capacity to experience creativity.”
8. “Creativity is not about finding the right answer, creativity is about trying many many potential answers.”
9. “You almost can’t fail with creativity because you’re not looking at the outcome, you’re looking at the process.”
10. “Creativity is a craft. Its a process that you go through.”
11. “People are not very emotionally alive.”
12. “We all have a resistance to this process.”
13. “So whatever’s the most important to you, its going to show in your life.”
14. “We’re supposed to engage at home fully, and we’re supposed to engage on the road fully.”
15. “Practice the process.”
16. “You trust based upon experience.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Art & Fear” by David Bayles: https://amzn.to/32a1238
Triple Espresso: https://tripleespresso.com/
“Divine Conspiracy” by Dallas Willard: https://amzn.to/3a1OgaX
Bob’s Creativity Course (use code TRUSTEDGE to save over 80%): https://masteringthecraftofcreativity.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and we have had a lot of great leaders on this show we’ve had some.


David Horsager: Just a whole variety from pro sports teams to to you know all kinds of leaders, but this next guest.


David Horsager: He was a mentor of mine, probably 30 years ago he’s one of the funniest comedians in the world he’s also a guy that is the same onstage and offstage.


David Horsager: He can share a message that isn’t just funny but it’s powerful and he i’ve seen him hold the attention of thousands and thousands of people in packed auditoriums I am just grateful to call him friend and please welcome Bob Stromberg thanks for being here my friend.


Stromberg Robert: Thank you, David I appreciate that and I remember our meeting I was at baker square or.


David Horsager: square Perkins.


Stromberg Robert: or Perkins one of those tubes that’s what I was thinking, yes, and we sat and and you said how did you ever figure out how did you get the job that you have, I would like to do.


Stromberg Robert: What you do, and I remember saying to you what David you’d probably like to do what I do you probably wouldn’t like to have to do what I had to do in order to do what I do you wouldn’t you wouldn’t have enjoyed that so much, but, but you know that road yourself now, after all these years.


David Horsager: Well, I think what was interesting about, that is, you said at least sometime later, maybe you know and your holy would impress me to as you take time with someone like me, I think I was in college at the time.


Stromberg Robert: Like you’re in college.


David Horsager: Time right and what I remember is you know you did mentioned to me later on i’ve done so many of these conversations.


David Horsager: i’ve had so many people come and do this and I I kind of not that you scare them but I tell them some truth and most of them, I mean very few actually kind of move forward into this journey.


David Horsager: Of.


David Horsager: You know, using.


David Horsager: Speaking and being on stage to try to change the world and use our gifting right.


Stromberg Robert: yeah you know you and one other guy Darren struggle, who is a popular comic is so funny and he was just he too was it was a kid he just just out of college and he said hey.


Stromberg Robert: we’re going to be at a banquet where you’re entertaining i’m going to be there could we sit together, just so I could talk and we went through the same kind of conversation that you and I had way back then, and I remember thinking he’ll he’ll never do it.


Stromberg Robert: Well, he did he’s been taking lots of work from me in recent years.


Stromberg Robert: is really good.


David Horsager: he’s really good he is very good.


David Horsager: And, of course, one thing I didn’t do is take work from you, because i’m not funny and you are but.


Stromberg Robert: Oh well.


David Horsager: it’s and we both have a mentor and friend and Ken Davis, and I remember he spoke so highly of you, and I remember seeing you on stage for the first time, and I just.


David Horsager: It moved me in this way that I saw the power of story and the power of comedy and the power of also of.


David Horsager: Not just being a comedian but really moving people toward good and I just said, that is, you know back you know in college I.


David Horsager: First became director of the Youth and family organization or on staff and then later director, but and the first 10 years really my business, I was.


David Horsager: You don’t on stage performing speaking later on, but 100 times a year, so now we have a little different business where i’m still speaking about hard times.


David Horsager: A year but i’m doing a lot of our deeper work is around trust and measuring trust and closing gaps and all that but, but I still I still love.


David Horsager: Being on the platform connecting with the audience.


Stromberg Robert: Oh yeah.


David Horsager: and trying to inspire a shift of thinking in my case around trust, but how did you let’s go back to you, I mean this you you.


David Horsager: You know meant so much to me as far as your example I will say onstage and offstage and you and I both have seen plenty of entertainers and comedians that have been one way onstage and offstage is a whole lot different.


David Horsager: But let’s let’s just hear the journey, a little bit how did you get to where you are because you’re you’re you’re a comedian you have your own show, in fact, I was.


David Horsager: We were talking about this, but you know, last thing we did last public event, my family and I brought some other people with was go to your wonder boy show at the theater in minneapolis.


David Horsager: area, and that was the first last excuse me, live event we were at before coven almost a year ago, and I think you said it was the last public event pretty much that you’ve performed at now you’ve been back in a few but.


David Horsager: You know you’ve got that show you were you know kind of the the triple Espresso was globally.


David Horsager: crazy runaway success and there might be some stories that come out of that but you’ve you you speak and your comedian on your own right you’ve been part of you know productions that are bigger tell us just give us the three minutes of your story.


Stromberg Robert: I could always make my mom and my dad laugh my earliest memories are making my mom and dad left either by making a face, or by saying something or by.


Stromberg Robert: by telling a joke repeatedly if I if I gotta laugh by telling them a joke one time I this is when I was five or six years old, I tell it I would tell it until they weren’t laughing anymore I delighted in making mom and dad laugh i’m the kid who would have been the class clown.


Stromberg Robert: That was one of my highest aspirations unfortunately my my dad was the height was the principal so of my school so consequently.


Stromberg Robert: That wasn’t an opportunity for me an option for me, I could not I couldn’t do that so.


Stromberg Robert: But I always knew that I can make people laugh, and it always delighted me I went to college I majored in art I enjoyed it a lot wasn’t a great student In school I got by.


Stromberg Robert: didn’t even know if college was for me, but I went to college I majored in art, because I thought, well, I might enjoy that but I knew all the time, what I really want to do was perform, but I grew up in this tiny little town.


Stromberg Robert: Certainly, nobody in my town had ever become an actor or performer a speaker a comedian nobody had ever done anything like that my dad and I used to.


Stromberg Robert: used to watch ED Sullivan, on Sunday nights at eight o’clock Eastern time in Pennsylvania, where I grew up and I love to watch the comedians come on on there.


Stromberg Robert: And, and to sit with my dad and look at him and just see him laugh, and it just delighted me and fill me up and I thought I would love to do that someday.


Stromberg Robert: So I went to college came out of college going what am I going to do, I considered the pastor and I consider going into youth ministry which wasn’t really wasn’t a thing back then, but.


Stromberg Robert: I thought I might enjoy doing that it was starting to happen, but I thought i’ve got to give this performing thing.


Stromberg Robert: A chance i’ve got to take up take a shot here, so I decided to take three years I was working with another fellow we went to.


Stromberg Robert: theater school in maine together spent a couple years up there post college.


Stromberg Robert: And decided it would be easier, maybe to try to make something happen as a wet rather than a solo artist.


Stromberg Robert: might be a little more fun working with somebody else, so the two of us work together for three years, we thought three years would be a good amount of time.


Stromberg Robert: A year way too short a year you start if it’s not going well, you can give up so easily at eight or nine months and just say i’ll Why do the summer it’s not going to work two years.


Stromberg Robert: I know know you’re going to start if it’s not going well you’re going to start giving up the second three years you gotta hang in there.


Stromberg Robert: It really only took us about three weeks and we were really busy we were living in New England at the time, going around to schools knocking on doors of schools and saying hey could could we come and perform at your school.


Stromberg Robert: I remember, we started looking at high schools and we were getting.


Stromberg Robert: we’re getting nothing we’re walking in we leave a brochure everywhere that we went and we after three weeks were getting pretty discouraged, because we weren’t getting any bookings.


Stromberg Robert: And then I said was driving by a middle school a sixth, seventh and eighth grades, and I said well let’s just stop in there, you know, and we could we could probably make our.


Stromberg Robert: Material work for six seventh and eighth grade, as well as high school, so we pulled in and walked in and the the the secretary.


Stromberg Robert: said hello, and I said hi we’re stromberg and Cooper we called ourselves and i’m here to.


Stromberg Robert: Where we’d like to just drop off a brochure here where we’re we’re performing and schools and, of course, this is a brochure that we wrote about ourselves because we had never done anything for anybody, and as soon as I said it, I heard a voice in the office behind her say send them in.


Stromberg Robert: We walked in I have no idea why did you say send him in he must have gotten himself into a spot he goes, what do you do and we told them and also it’s it’s comedy is yes, but we introduce.


Stromberg Robert: People to the art and performing we do a little mind and and we teach about theatre art and so on, and he said, what do you charge, and I remember $750 and he goes that’s for two shows right well yeah of course that’s for two.


Stromberg Robert: And, and he said Okay, I need you tomorrow and we said all right we’ll be here, so we went back the next day and guam Massachusetts we did two shows.


Stromberg Robert: In this middle school and it went so well, so what was I 23 years old, maybe, and the kids just went nuts, the teachers went nuts, they absolutely loved it as we’re leaving the school, the principal came up to us, with the gave us a check for 150 bucks and then he said.


Stromberg Robert: Do you have any more brochures well I had about 1000 brochures in the trunk of our car that’s that’s all we made was.


David Horsager: just stop and say.


David Horsager: yeah you can keep middle schoolers that.


David Horsager: Stand what how good you are because you know now you’ve got all these accolades behind you over 5040 years of doing this, but this I mean to be in the third week.


David Horsager: Holding middle school is attention that that’s a that’s a huge accomplishment better than a lot of the awards probably on your list.


Stromberg Robert: And that’s really It really is true what you’re saying is true you, you have to be good to hold hold kids attention because they’re not gonna they’re gonna play around with you, if they don’t like you you’re going to know what.


Stromberg Robert: The principal said I want all thousand of those brochures and i’m thinking I don’t want to give this guy our brochures we you know we don’t have any other bookings we have nothing.


Stromberg Robert: And he said, I am the President of the New England principals association, we have our annual conference this weekend, he said I want a.


Stromberg Robert: A one of your brochures for every seat that these people aren’t going to sit on he said i’m going to talk about you guys from the platform and he did, and the phone started ringing and that first year we did 475 school shows.


Stromberg Robert: And we had to get up early in the morning to drive all around New England to do them but 475 school shows.


Stromberg Robert: And that that was the beginning, so it only took three weeks and we are often and going and we work together for 12 years.


Stromberg Robert: And that’s really where I got a lot of my 10,000 hours, as they say, I got those taken care of in that first 12 years doing all those shows.


Stromberg Robert: And we also we did elementary school shows we did college showcase things I mean we showcase for in we did call it showcases so that we could do college tours which we did and.


Stromberg Robert: I just learned so much about performing and what I always loved about what I did whoever i’ve been working with whether it was my original partner Michael Cooper is still a great friend wonderful performer or whether it’s.


Stromberg Robert: bill Arnold and Michael pierce Johnny with triple Espresso and others folks that i’ve collaborated with i’ve always loved the idea of making people laugh hard and then.


Stromberg Robert: Then, allowing them, helping them to laugh hard at things that they feel good about.


Stromberg Robert: laughing about so that they feel good about their laughter because things can be funny and then afterwards, you go.


Stromberg Robert: boy I don’t feel so good about that, I mean that was funny but I don’t know.


Stromberg Robert: And, and I never wanted to do that I so so i’ve always been a squeaky clean comedian and everything that I do and i’m glad about that because, especially.


Stromberg Robert: As time has gone on over the last 40 years of doing this, things have become crafter and crafter and crafter.


Stromberg Robert: us, so much so that often it’s difficult, you have to you really have to sell yourself to to get a job because people say Oh, we had a comedian here last year and.


Stromberg Robert: didn’t go so well I don’t think I don’t think maybe we can have you and I said well who do you have well he’s from Saturday night live and used to be on 711 i’m.


Stromberg Robert: Why did you hire them, you know you gotta you have to have to think about who your audiences before you hire people but anyway that’s sort of how I guess.


David Horsager: yeah I mean I think there’s all kinds of things here, you had to be an entrepreneur and a leader to get this done and y’all also had to be great at your craft and.


David Horsager: trusted we talked about this framework gap to be competent and it, but you also have to be you know committed to it and you have to have a several different parts of the eight pillars and of trust, but you know, I think.


David Horsager: to jump here it’s just you are so good on the stage you’re so good, with physical comedy with storytelling comedy.


David Horsager: With just plain storytelling that hits people between the eyes i’ve seen people not just laugh but cry and.


David Horsager: Probably i’ve done that myself watching you’re just you’re so brilliant if you haven’t seen Bob stromberg you can see, Bob stromberg calm, you can see, several of his shows that he’s created been a part of.


David Horsager: wonderboy was one of the most recent ones I saw triple espressos amazing but just plain having Bob into speak and share and and be a comedian is.


David Horsager: It just an outstanding treat and i’ve seen a lot of stuff i’ve been this onstage with a lot of people.


David Horsager: you’re also the author of mastering the craft of creativity and so people were going to have this in the show notes, but this is where I want to get to for leaders, today, you know, we have an expert.


David Horsager: In Bob stromberg at creativity and you can find out more mastering the craft of creativity.com we’ll have it all over the show notes at trusted leader show.com but tell us about this, how did you become so creative and give us a little window into that slice of your expertise.


Stromberg Robert: Five or six years ago.


Stromberg Robert: Well, it was September 15 of 2015 I was right here in the basement of this House digging through some boxes of books.


Stromberg Robert: and looking for some books and I found some old work calendars a pile of them about like this and the earliest one went back to 1975.


Stromberg Robert: And I thought to myself, I wonder what I was doing on Sep tember 15th 2015 40 years to the date earlier.


Stromberg Robert: And so I opened it up to 2015 I mean to to to 1975 which was 40 years earlier, and there was my first professional booking with my friend, Michael and I came upstairs I said to my wife Judy Judy This is like a celebration, I mean the anniversary we should be celebrating and she said.


Stromberg Robert: hmm.


Stromberg Robert: And that was the extent of the celebration right there that was.


Stromberg Robert: That was all there was, but that got me thinking when I realized Oh, my goodness, I have done this full time self employed never had a job never had an employer who paid thousands of them, but never, never an employer, that I was working for steadily.


Stromberg Robert: How have I done that, and I realized that I had been utilizing this thing called creativity and I also realized.


Stromberg Robert: I had never given a lot of thought to what it actually is and how it works and I started thinking about all these plays that I had written all recently i’ve been writing screenplays.


Stromberg Robert: And the comedy material and lots and lots of music that i’ve written through the years, all these creative things, what do they have in common, where did they come from, how did they come to be and I realized that.


Stromberg Robert: In this took this took a number of months of thinking about this really working through it, I realized that everything that I have created came from a place.


Stromberg Robert: And through a process and the place that the place that these things came from the songs the plays the comedy routines the bits the one liners.


Stromberg Robert: They came from what I call my creative reservoir which you have as well, and they came through a process and the process is called creativity and I believe that that there are two words, you need two words to really describe what creativity actually is.


Stromberg Robert: And I believe the two words are gift and craft usually we think of creativity, being a gift people say oh I couldn’t be creative my my brother was so crazy he really had a gift to creativity, but I just never had that.


Stromberg Robert: And I say, well, you you, you had something, because when you were a child, you demonstrated that here’s the deal.


Stromberg Robert: I really believe that the gift you’re born with something creativity, but you’re not born creative here’s what I think the gift is David.


Stromberg Robert: The gift that that we are all born with all of us is a a desire and a capacity to experience creativity, so we come out of the womb that way with a desire.


Stromberg Robert: and a capacity to experience it and we open up that gift immediately when we’re born, I mean the first thing that you within weeks you’re you’re learning that you can roll from I don’t know if it’s weeks I can’t remember it’s been so long since my kids my grandkids were that small.


David Horsager: would say it’s been so long since you roll over for the first time that’s right.


Stromberg Robert: But to roll from your back to your front boy that was exciting you couldn’t wait to do that it’s a little scary to do that, you can see, you can see the baby’s eyes just.


Stromberg Robert: Did I just do that that’s experiencing creativity getting up on your knees and rocking back and forth oh boy that’s one and then piling up blocks at some point, and then.


Stromberg Robert: knocking them over it all of this was play or or of taking that krahn and rubbing it across the paper making those marks on the paper was so fun, or is it was the case in my family with our four year old, who is who is now a remarkable artist and was then.


Stromberg Robert: To take that pink magic marker and coloring and all color and all the white flowers on mom and dad’s new couch that was an exciting.


Stromberg Robert: That was exciting day at our our family, all of this was what we refer to, and what psychologists call and child development people call play it was just play, but it was all creativity, it was all creative incredible.


Stromberg Robert: demonstration of creativity, so the question is well, where does that go because so many people say i’m not creative I couldn’t create anything I mean i’m i’m no idea what I would do I can’t create anything you know i’m just not a creative person.


Stromberg Robert: You used to be so where did it go and I believe.


Stromberg Robert: And I believe it gets educated right out of us in the western world, I think it’s just it’s just.


Stromberg Robert: The downside of our educational system, a lot of good things about our educational system, but not in this regard of creativity.


Stromberg Robert: Because in school, we learned very early on, when we’re taking a test or quiz or an exam, we have to write in the right.


Stromberg Robert: word in the fill in the blank it’s got to be the right word or if it’s a multiple choice, you have to you have to circle, the right answer, or if it’s a.


Stromberg Robert: math problem you have to add those numbers all up and divide it and do this and the high pot news of whatever and it’s got to be down to the.


Stromberg Robert: down to the right decimal point and number it’s got to be perfect and if it’s not it gets a big red mark on it and we deal with our feelings about about getting those red marks on our paper, and we very early realize.


Stromberg Robert: That we’re not as creative as we used to be, things are not as fun as they used to be creativity does not work that way creativity is not about finding the right answer.


Stromberg Robert: Creativity is about trying many, many potential answers some of them, which are really not good answers at all, but to try them.


Stromberg Robert: And something else comes out of it, you you almost can’t fail with creativity, because you’re not looking at the outcome you’re looking at the process so to to engage in the process, even if it’s.


Stromberg Robert: To try lots of things, in other words you don’t need to get the one right answer so therefore I think there’s another word this necessary gift, as the first one.


Stromberg Robert: I think the other word to describe what creativity is and how it works, then the other important word.


Stromberg Robert: Is craft creativity is a craft it’s a process that you go through, and as you go through this process you begin to this is a wonderful side benefit you begin to fill up your creative reservoir so there’s.


Stromberg Robert: there’s always something there you don’t need to worry about writer’s block you don’t need to worry about not being able, what am I going to do not it’s all you’ve got lots of stuff ready to go and but you need to understand what the process is.


Stromberg Robert: I heard recently about a sting who has been I just just before we did this interview, I thought, well, I wonder how many.


Stromberg Robert: How many grammys he’s one I went on he’s been nominated 43 times 42 or 43 times for grammys he’s won 17 one of the most popular singers songwriters in the world.


Stromberg Robert: About.


Stromberg Robert: A dozen years ago.


Stromberg Robert: He woke up one morning, and he couldn’t he couldn’t write it he couldn’t write a song he couldn’t write.


Stromberg Robert: And you go how’s that even possible I mean that’s what he does he writes songs he couldn’t write a song and this one on for eight years.


Stromberg Robert: Eight years couldn’t write it couldn’t write a song, can you imagine how devastating that was now we didn’t know that the public didn’t know that because he’s still touring.


Stromberg Robert: All the time he’s playing the songs we want to hear anyway, we don’t particularly want to hear a new song we’re happy to hear the old ones, the ones on the album’s we’ve been listened to it forever.


Stromberg Robert: But he couldn’t write a song and he was desperate and he said he described it this way, he said, I believe it was as if it was as if my muse went away.


Stromberg Robert: And I after going through all this work thinking through creativity for myself, I felt so sad about that because I thought staying.


Stromberg Robert: there’s no there’s no muse there’s there’s no muse you don’t you don’t have a muse you’d you have a process that you had been doing for years, and you don’t understand what the process is, if you understood what the process is you’d be writing a song right away and here’s what he did.


Stromberg Robert: Well, he didn’t know what to do, but here’s what happened to him.


Stromberg Robert: He.


Stromberg Robert: In his mind began to think about growing up in new Castle, and the UK shipbuilding town and he remembered the way.


Stromberg Robert: The old fisherman and the old shipbuilders excuse me, the way they used to talk and he heard their dialect in his head.


Stromberg Robert: And it later occurred to him that he’d never ever written a song in the dialect of these shipbuilders never even occurred to him to do to do that.


Stromberg Robert: But he heard the dialect and heard particular phrases that they would say, for example, one day you’ll wear these dead man’s boots.


Stromberg Robert: that’s what fathers would say to their sons, in other words you’re going to do the same work that I did you know so and he would.


Stromberg Robert: someday we’re these dead man’s roots and he started this and he got a little tune he didn’t consider writing a song, it was just a little ditty in his head little sea shanty kind of thing about wearing these dead man’s boots.


Stromberg Robert: And he wrote it and then he had another phrase in that dialect and he wrote another.


Stromberg Robert: Another little little sea shanty kind of thing in that, and he began to collect them and then he started thinking.


Stromberg Robert: I wonder if I could put them together in some way, I wonder who would sing the song, I wonder if there are characters who would sing them to each other, it eventually ended up being his West end and broadway musical call called the last ship now here Dave here Dave is the important thing.


Stromberg Robert: without knowing it, I believe that sting.


Stromberg Robert: used the creative process that I realized that i’ve been using and everything that I ever wrote and here’s the way it works, there are three things I say you may not, you may not have a.


Stromberg Robert: You may not feel you have a creative spirit or you may not feel that you have a creative reservoir, but you can get one.


Stromberg Robert: didn’t say get I said get gee I T first step in the creative process you grab anything that grabs you emotionally.


Stromberg Robert: So as you’re going through your day, and these are not ideas that you’re grabbing you can’t if.


Stromberg Robert: The eye that’s not how ideas happen the ideas aren’t just waiting out there for you to take them, you have to.


Stromberg Robert: You have to find them, and so you grab you’re not grabbing ideas you’re grabbing thoughts.


Stromberg Robert: So, as you go through your day you remember something you see something something happens in the market, this little kid at the kid in the stroller in the market.


Stromberg Robert: drops a sucker on the floor his mom says something oh boy, that was a little bit harsh or oh boy you write it down, it can be anything that grabs you emotionally things that make you that delight you things that may be upset you things that.


Stromberg Robert: things that make you wonder.


Stromberg Robert: you write them down that’s what it means to grab now when I say write them down, you can speak them into your phone, but you have a file form, you make sure you have somewhere where you can put these.


Stromberg Robert: thoughts they’re not ideas you have no, you have no idea what they could possibly be it’s just a thought and there’s a resistance to doing this because.


Stromberg Robert: People go, why would I write that down it’s not even any it’s just it’s nothing, why would I write it down because the the process that’s just the beginning of the process.


Stromberg Robert: The second thing is, then you go back each day and you look at that list of things that you’ve grabbed and you begin to interrogate them.


Stromberg Robert: If you have if you end up with 20 or 30 things on your grab list and that’ll happen pretty quickly, by the way you begin to as you go through this process you actually begin to to wake up.


Stromberg Robert: Emotionally i’ve had people say to me when they start the exercises in my course mastering the crash creativity, they say why I didn’t grab anything today nothing, nothing grabbed me emotionally, so I didn’t grab it.


Stromberg Robert: I said well keep trying, because I just know that people are not very emotionally alive they’re not in touch with their own emotions.


Stromberg Robert: they’re walking past stuff they’re not looking they’re not observing and then, as you begin to grab it gets easier and easier, in fact, it becomes habitual.


Stromberg Robert: And you’re grabbing things left and right all the time and again, sometimes I grab stuff and I go, you know my I got reams of things now and I go Why am I still doing this well because, as you go back then you interrogate what you grab that’s the eye.


David Horsager: You grab manager, do you use this paper, do you journal it you put it in your phone, how do you how do you grab it like when you’re out and about what’s your little file system.


Stromberg Robert: And I grabbed I grabbed on paper for years, I think, originally it was just anything I could grab but I was just grabbing anything and then pile them in a box and then it was in then it was in a little.


Stromberg Robert: You know I remember getting nice little leather books, at one point, you know.


Stromberg Robert: And it would be some of it would be grabbing others, it would be notes and stuff but then recently in the last actually since I started working on this seven or eight years ago.


Stromberg Robert: i’ve been grabbing on my phone, I just have a file, I have a grab file, I have to actually and I just I just speak them in there it’s just enough to remember what what grabbed you that’s all it’s not usually usually it’s a sentence fragment that you’re grabbing we.


David Horsager: I just it ties back to you know just.


David Horsager: Briefly, someone else that we had on the show that we talked about the value of journaling and how that’s one of the top things to do, and so, in essence.


David Horsager: This is a part of amping up your creativity and and if you if you want to be more creative and everybody, I mean this this really and more innovative.


David Horsager: You got to go to the whole course mastering the craft of creativity calm, but we’re getting a good look behind the kimono here we’re getting we’re getting the get right here, right now, at least.


David Horsager: A good overview and there’s a whole lot more in the whole course but.


David Horsager: He was talking about journaling just the process of journaling you ideas start to come to you start thinking about me start remembering and even on your own without interrogating that night let’s say.


David Horsager: your mind starts to interrogate it starts to build the muscle of interrogating on its own, it seems.


Stromberg Robert: If you if you develop it if you develop a.


Stromberg Robert: habit which, as you know, I mean they always say it takes 21 days to create a habit so it’s three weeks, the truth is, it takes more like two or three months.


Stromberg Robert: You actually can create an A neural pathway in 21 days and it’s it’s there you could you could see it apparently or measure it in some way.


Stromberg Robert: But it’s not very strong and it won’t help you very much, unless you do it for up to two or three months repeat the cycle 234 times.


Stromberg Robert: And then it’s there and it’s working all by itself and that’s where you get people in the middle of the night saying I wrote this song.


Stromberg Robert: I mean it’s like God gave me the song because I just woke up with it well, well, maybe God did give you the song, but he gave it through your through this marvelous thing called your brain and your mind which works, the way that it does so, I just wanted.


Stromberg Robert: If I continue real quickly you you interrogate.


Stromberg Robert: What you grab when you go back to your list, and you look at it so maybe got 2030 things here unless you just kind of read down through them and one or two of them will pop right out at you like oh pay attention to me pay attention to me.


Stromberg Robert: And you go well, what are you, how could I use, you are you an illustration, are you a new kernel of truth for my ad campaign are.


Stromberg Robert: Are you a new marketing plan are you a painting, are you a new chapter in my book, are you a character in my book, what what are you and.


Stromberg Robert: and, eventually, then you have it sounds like a cliche but it’s absolutely true, and every artist every creative knows this.


Stromberg Robert: You have that Aha moment where you go.


Stromberg Robert: There it is there, it is now sometimes this can happen in in three minutes you know this day but it’s like.


Stromberg Robert: It just there I got it this thing happened and I knew exactly I needed I needed that application or that illustration tonight.


Stromberg Robert: And I got it today and I wasn’t even looking for just boom there, it was so it can happen really quickly or it might take 20 years.


Stromberg Robert: I mean literally 20 I have a I have a piece, now that I do on my show where you’ve seen my family pictures thing.


Stromberg Robert: It took me 20 years of that on my list of going down well, maybe someday I cannot figure out what to do with those family pictures and it became this this hysterical routine now.


Stromberg Robert: So, then you grab you interrogate you have that Aha moment, and then you go now I know what it is and you begin to transform it into what it should be that’s what sting did.


Stromberg Robert: He he was grabbed emotionally by memories of his boyhood and anybody our age.


Stromberg Robert: Your age, I know you’re younger than I am, but anybody our ages knows memories of boyhood when they hit you those are powerful emotionally.


Stromberg Robert: And he you know his mom and dad both of them are gone now, but he remembered them he remembered the dead man’s boots he remembered his girlfriend he remember these things.


Stromberg Robert: And he began to grab those and then say what could I do with you what could this is this is this a song Is this a an album is this wow could this be a broadway play.


Stromberg Robert: And and a musical and then he began to transform it into that now how long does it take to from beginning to end, it can be really quick, it can be.


Stromberg Robert: An hour and you got it can be half an hour and you’ve written a song and you could actually be singing it in half an hour, if you want to.


Stromberg Robert: But other things if it’s a new medical device, or if it’s a broadway play it’s going to take years and years and years to develop it to the point where where you can put it on stage so or produce it.


David Horsager: I love it talk more, you know that this is great everybody’s got grab interrogate transform there’s a process for creativity, we can all get better at creativity.


David Horsager: we’ve been maybe a lot of it’s been hammered away because of if we’re listening from the US, right now, from the American.


David Horsager: educational system and actually many others around the world, I mean this educational system came about because of the industrial age right it’s like boom boom boom we do it this way.


David Horsager: But um let’s there is a discipline, it seems to the way you develop routines and and and kind of you know, be consistently creative and I think this is a process for it, but is there anything else you do as a disciplined approach to being creative or to building a.


David Horsager: screenplay.


Stromberg Robert: well.


Stromberg Robert: This is where there are a lot of books like art and fear press feels book.


Stromberg Robert: That is it’s great to read some of these books, because there is a there’s a resist we all have a resistance to this process.


Stromberg Robert: Fears a big part of it, and again I don’t know if this is, if this is part of our of our Western culture or not, I think probably is but we we we all become very.


Stromberg Robert: We look at the.


Stromberg Robert: The outcome we look at the outcome of what of what we’re doing.


Stromberg Robert: That that seems to make sense, a lot of times when you’re thinking about business things where you got to look well, what are you putting in this and what do you hope to get out of this.


Stromberg Robert: But with creativity there’s never any guarantee of.


Stromberg Robert: Certainly, an art there’s never any guarantee that any any of this is going to work and it just there’s no guarantee not.


David Horsager: You have self in that, how do you how do you trust yourself enough to keep at it.


Stromberg Robert: Well, as you have some success, then you you begin to build upon that success, so you look back and I, I know I wrote that wonderboy after we wrote.


Stromberg Robert: bill Arnold and Michael fierstein when I wrote triple Espresso.


Stromberg Robert: I had never written a play before at that point, I hadn’t even been in a play before just always done, the done the solo thing or the the wet stuff with my partner, I had that I started out with.


Stromberg Robert: So i’ve been on stage a lot, but I never been in a play never written anything like that I went to see Michael pure Stanley in forever Plaid back in 1990 and he’d already been in that show.


Stromberg Robert: For two years, or three years, at that point he doing it seven times a week downtown minneapolis and my wife and I went to see him do that I just thought it was great.


Stromberg Robert: And we went out to eat afterwards and my wife and I, and she said to me, you could write something better than that.


Stromberg Robert: Well, the next more and I will yeah what would I do with it, if we How would, I have no idea how to how would you produce it Where would you put it, how would How would you get anybody to come if you did, and what would it be anyway.


Stromberg Robert: I went out to eat with have breakfast with Michael pierce Donnelly and and bill Arnold who I had met in Chicago.


Stromberg Robert: We are on a stage together they’re at a big Convention and I thought he was one of the funniest people he’s a he’s a comic magician as as you were and and.


Stromberg Robert: Maybe still are sometimes David.


David Horsager: know.


David Horsager: long time ago.


David Horsager: The big jam button here is yeah yeah I used to use it to see people for a living now you talk about trust right.


yeah.


Stromberg Robert: But but.


David Horsager: People don’t even know I ever did that.


Stromberg Robert: But i’ll bet you saw bill at some point didn’t yeah I mean even before triple stress or not.


David Horsager: Oh yeah.


David Horsager: And they’re amazing all three of you, I mean that’s.


David Horsager: that’s something that made that trio, you know of triple Espresso just I mean from what Dublin to across the US, I mean it was just.


David Horsager: All three of you so talented and so funny in different ways, but together, I mean you know people talk about that laughing and there’s people that go every year to that.


David Horsager: You know the same show it’s just a you know it’s.


Stromberg Robert: yeah people have been 4050 times it’s amazing they and they want to see the same stuff over no please don’t change anything.


Stromberg Robert: But we went out to eat breakfast and one, and I know I shared about my wife saying we could write something better, or I could write something better.


Stromberg Robert: And and Michael said, well, maybe we should and bill said well i’ll make a call see if I can get anybody who would be interested in having us come and do it well, he he called then.


Stromberg Robert: He gave me a call within a day or two and said i’ve got a booked for for next month when next month.


Stromberg Robert: The third, well, it was like 30 days away and we hadn’t written anything so we just got together and said Okay, well, we have to do this and as it turned out.


Stromberg Robert: 600 people came to that first show at up for a family united church 600 people came.


Stromberg Robert: And we had a we had about an hour show that we have put together and we threw away, about half of it.


Stromberg Robert: Literally half of it, but we kept some nuggets that seemed to work and we kept working on it for another few months and then that led to some other things and somebody said, would you like to come do it on theater.


Stromberg Robert: And it just took off like wildfire flower wild flowers took off like wildfire took off like wild fire and.


Stromberg Robert: We thought we were we got this opportunity to do it for six weeks at a theaters seven times seven or eight times a week, we were going to do it.


Stromberg Robert: And I remember thinking well, that means I can’t work anywhere else for for six weeks we’ll probably going to lose a lot of money on this well.


Stromberg Robert: It took off David it, it was we had people lined up down the street, to get tickets from almost from the from the first week on.


Stromberg Robert: And then it went to San Diego and then we got another cast we kept two cities going and then at one point, there were seven cities gone and then we went to Dublin, we went to the UK we went to the West end of London.


Stromberg Robert: And it went to you know at some cities now it’s been in over 25 years.


Stromberg Robert: It ran it ran without missing a date without missing a week in San Diego for 11 years, I think it was 13 years here without stopping and minneapolis it was a phenomenon, now the reason i’m telling you the story is.


Stromberg Robert: You said, how do you how do you keep, how do you keep doing what you’re doing with are no guarantees and and I think.


Stromberg Robert: You build upon the success, but I did I did that wonderboy thinking well gee I could write another play, and this is going to just take off and go crazy again.


Stromberg Robert: that’s what it felt like to me, I know I can do this, I did it once i’ll do it again and I realized well triple Espresso was a phenomenon, it was truly a phenomenon.


Stromberg Robert: it’s not something that’s going to happen very meant to very many people in a in a generation it’s just one of those very, very odd things are the right right time right place and so on, but.


Stromberg Robert: I had great sexual.


Stromberg Robert: success.


Stromberg Robert: I had great success with.


Stromberg Robert: I had great success with that wonderboy but it wasn’t the same kind of success.


Stromberg Robert: But, but it was it was wonderful nonetheless it just didn’t have I mean.


Stromberg Robert: Yet oh yeah it was it was fantastic in New York and won some big awards there, which was pretty exciting yeah but it wasn’t it didn’t make it didn’t make any money, so if the idea is i’m going to do this, so that I can make some money, and this is going to well, maybe, maybe not.


Stromberg Robert: And there’s no other way to, but if you’re looking at the outcome it’s it’s it’s kind of tough you you’ll you’ll quit pretty quickly, because there are too many reasons to.


Stromberg Robert: not do it there too many reasons to not invest in the creative process because it takes time it takes work, some of it, some of it’s difficult tough.


Stromberg Robert: Work collaboration, for example, if you’re being creative with other people.


Stromberg Robert: boy some collaborations are so fun and they’re just great and other collaborations like oh I can’t believe i’m I have to work with her and again, you know it’s just like I this is going to be tough, but you have you know you you do it because that’s the process.


David Horsager: I think that’s a unique unique trait of you, compared to many you are phenomenal success on your own, and I saw you first most of the time on your own I didn’t see way back to the Cooper times I mean you were.


David Horsager: You had an amazing solo act event show, and yet you’ve collaborated with others to make some this runaway success triple Espresso this even your first 12 years with Mr Cooper whatever so.


Stromberg Robert: yeah I think.


David Horsager: that’s an interesting interesting i’m going to jump here just for a second because you know we talked about the work we’re doing it’s it’s you know you can.


David Horsager: You can be on stage and all these things, and yet everything else can crumble and actually that affects your life, and so I think you know to be a great leader.


David Horsager: be creative we got some tips today with with get you know grabbing and interrogating and transforming we got certainly it’s been an inspiring.


David Horsager: And this is just so fun for me to hear you kind of get behind the scenes from what I saw on stage, that is just and see on stage that it’s just so amazing and inspiring and to get it kind of.


David Horsager: peek back to oh there’s a process to this maybe we can all get a little more creative, but I think another thing about you, that the people at least that listen to this trusted leader show need to hear is this this guy that’s.


David Horsager: The same onstage and offstage in many ways, and what I mean by that is, I still remember, and this was this was quite a few years ago now actually was about.


David Horsager: Maybe 1012 years ago we both got asked to speak at a conference, I believe it was in Atlanta, I think there were 7000 people there and it was one of the bigger ones i’d done until that point, you were on stage also and.


David Horsager: And you probably more of a headliner than me at the time for sure, but we both were were it was a it was a big out of time, a lot of people, and I remember right when I got there senior wife.


David Horsager: And I was just having kids so maybe it was a little more than that, it was you know 15 years ago or 17 years ago.


David Horsager: 18 years ago and I I was just starting to have kids and I was starting to get more you know speaking around the world more and flying more and this kind of thing just a little bit more not not not probably 100 events, a year, yet, but.


David Horsager: I remember you know just asking what, how do you do it, how do you balance family, how do you do well at home well you’re being when I think in our case, a lot of our leaders, you know.


David Horsager: They might not be flying as much but they’re high pressure there in the having to be in the boardroom and I have to put this fire out there having a.


David Horsager: they’re having a lot of lot of being asked to do more with less and a whole lot of weight on their shoulders and yet I remember her saying to me.


David Horsager: You know what my your boys if they weren’t neglected any way they felt like it was like you were there all the time in some way for them, and this is before so much access mobley.


David Horsager: But I guess you know we talked about this if you’re not if you’re not trusted at home, whatever that means to people.


David Horsager: it’s going to be hard if you’re not if you’re not leading yourself, personally, well, it shows up even if people don’t know why publicly.


David Horsager: And I think you know creativity could even go down if our mind is so dealing with other problems at home somehow you lead yourself well at home how did, how did you do it, especially amidst all the flights and gone time you had.


Stromberg Robert: When you were you said creativity King can go down it’s still common that now i’m my wife Judy and our we’re here by ourselves on our homework our kids are grown and gone.


Stromberg Robert: But she’ll often during a meal it’ll be a little quiet for a moment she’ll go.


Stromberg Robert: What are you writing.


Stromberg Robert: Right, what are you writing is it a song, or is it a is it a screenplay or what what are you writing off sorry i’m sorry, you know i’m not not not so engaged I guess the point of even telling you that is, it is not easy it’s never been easy.


Stromberg Robert: i’m not even sure to say you need to balance it i’m not even sure balance is the right word, but you do need to set some priorities about what is most important in life.


Stromberg Robert: And something needs to happen as a result of what you believe is the most important thing, well, it will it will automatically happen.


Stromberg Robert: If you believe that that your work is the most important thing in life if that’s what you believe it will end up being the most important thing in your life and that’s going to affect you.


David Horsager: Did to show that i’m you had all those shows all that travel and somehow I know your kids they love you they do feel like they were not neglect they feel I mean you have a great family life now now grandkids and whatnot.


David Horsager: Is there anything specific you did in those times to to show that priority, even while.


David Horsager: flying out and.


David Horsager: having to be gone.


Stromberg Robert: yeah my schedule during much of the of the time it varied, because when I was working solo work, which I did for.


Stromberg Robert: 1015 years but i’m 10 years probably before triple A special triple A special is a little different I was gone.


Stromberg Robert: Except on Monday, sometimes Tuesday nights but every other day of the week, I was gone in the evenings so my boys would come home from.


Stromberg Robert: from school at three and I would have to head quarter to six at the latest, down to the show and I wouldn’t be home all evening, then so.


Stromberg Robert: or before that time I would I would have to fly away from home usually on Thursday or Friday and I come back on Sunday that’s the kind of traveling that I did speaking and doing comedy at events.


Stromberg Robert: So we did a very intentional thing at the time I was doing my own booking i’ve been with an agency now for 25 years and i’m still happy with my agent he’s doing a great job, but for for.


Stromberg Robert: 15 years or so.


Stromberg Robert: We did it ourselves Judy and I did all the booking ourselves.


Stromberg Robert: And we really did that, because we wanted to treat people, the way we wanted to treat people, and I was, I was terrified of an agent not treating people the way, I would like.


Stromberg Robert: I haven’t had that problem, but that is a problem, sometimes for people, so we would work in the office in our home at that time it was sending out newsletters and it was answering doing correspondence and.


Stromberg Robert: and talking on the phone, but we would be working the boys would go to school at eight we would be in the office at 830 and we would work until 315.


Stromberg Robert: The boys when the boys walked in the door, or maybe it was 330 when the boys walked in the door, from school at quarter to four.


Stromberg Robert: I was at the door that was the commitment I can work for six seven hours here really hard right through lunch, we can be working while we’re eating.


Stromberg Robert: But at 345 when the boys walk in the door i’m waiting at the door for him and we’re playing basketball in the driveway or we’re doing something in the House or we’re we’re.


Stromberg Robert: Cross country skiing or we’re doing something together or i’m working with them on homework or making sure that things get done.


Stromberg Robert: So that was the that was that’s an example of a commitment that I made now, I know that a lot of lot of people can’t do that.


Stromberg Robert: But there are commitments that you can make to say we always do this, and this is something that I have a friend for my director in that wonderboy your name is Rhys her brain and her husband is a a very.


Stromberg Robert: well known and celebrated lighting director for theater all over the all over the country all over the world.


Stromberg Robert: And she is a noted director, and so they have opportunities to go to travel separately, all the time, sometimes together but usually he’s doing a show somewhere she’s somewhere else.


Stromberg Robert: They have had now, for I think they’ve been married for 20 years 22 or 23 years they have this two week agreement, and that is that they.


Stromberg Robert: Every wherever they are, whatever is happening, they will never be away from each other for more than two weeks ever.


Stromberg Robert: And then they will be back, they will even if it, even if it means, and this is and i’ve said to them, have you actually pull it off Oh yes, we have, he has flown from.


Stromberg Robert: Asia to be back so that we can be together or sometimes they fly to the to the same place for a few days now.


Stromberg Robert: once every two weeks that would be that’s not enough for me.


Stromberg Robert: To be with my family, but that was that’s an example of a commitment were from the very beginning, they said, this could be tough on a marriage we’re doing this we’re making a commitment here.


Stromberg Robert: So I so whatever is the most important to you it’s going to it’s going to show in your life and my the way I always understood, I always understood my family was more important.


David Horsager: yeah and the calendar and the checkbook show it, but in some ways it doesn’t always show it in the can’t it’s hard to I remember struggles in those years challenged and men’s flying away and thinking Oh, and I feel called to this trust work and the difference.


Stromberg Robert: That makes and I felt that was my family.


David Horsager: We had we had a few things we did, and I did plenty of things that I, maybe would would would do differently, but one thing.


David Horsager: We did have an amount of dates I would be gone, we also I got in the habit of always flying the family with as a whole, at least once a year, and each kid on their own, at least once a year.


David Horsager: So that they go with you.


Stromberg Robert: At a time they never will forget that.


Stromberg Robert: They will never forget.


David Horsager: You told me that that that I see, and I think now you know our averages up beyond that for sure.


David Horsager: And that’s one of the gifts of this not everybody can do that, but they see there was a time when our kids had spent more time in the Indian Ocean, because of our work in Kenya than they had been in Pacific or Atlantic.


David Horsager: But the The other thing I think, for us, I mean there’s several things I did, but one thing I did I didn’t miss a time where every morning.


David Horsager: I said I want to parent my kids I want to teach them things right so every morning I would shoot a video.


David Horsager: That I was on the road, you know and and Lisa would show it at breakfast something maybe I would share a verse an idea I thought and.


David Horsager: She would she would show it, they would they would look forward to it once they were teenagers that kind of lost its its.


David Horsager: excitement, so I shifted to some other things, but there was at least for three years straight I didn’t miss a morning that I was gone where they had a video through the through the phone for me so.


David Horsager: yeah I know you know still thinking about that as the kids get older how, how do we keep the homefront healthy because we know if i’m thinking about that not being healthy i’ve seen so many leaders fail at home and that causes all the failure everywhere else to.


Stromberg Robert: It really it’s really a question David of how do we live, how do we engage in life, I recognized in my career and sometimes I still do when i’ve had to travel a lot.


Stromberg Robert: i’m so thankful to have this job that I can go do now, and I think to myself i’m so thankful Thank you God that I can do this job today and I fly and do it and I fly out to do it and then.


Stromberg Robert: From the time I get there i’m thinking I wish I was home I wish I was home I wish I I can’t wait to go home I can’t wait to get home and then.


Stromberg Robert: And I go this isn’t the way it’s supposed to be i’m supposed to engage in life, where I am in the present so that I can experience it fully and give fully of my of myself.


Stromberg Robert: But that’s hard to do I you can’t do that if you’re going, I just want to get home, I just want to get to the airport so you’re speaking in front of an audience going.


Stromberg Robert: I just I just want to get to the airport, so I can get home it’s not the way you’re supposed to do it we’re supposed to engage at home fully and we’re supposed to engage on the road fully but we’re supposed to understand how those fit together.


Stromberg Robert: And it’s a challenge, it is a challenge yeah.


David Horsager: It is a challenge, being aware of it is the first step for sure so yeah hey we got to get to the lightning round, but before we do i’m going to jump over the producer Kent you got a question for Bob stromberg today.


David Horsager: hey Bob so I was wondering obviously doing triple Espresso, for you know many, many years, doing so many shows and other shows that you’ve done, how did you keep it kind of fresh.


David Horsager: For you, I mean even just like mentally like if you’re doing something you’re doing it thousands and thousands of thousands of times.


David Horsager: Over and over again, how do you keep it fresh and not feel like stagnant or feel like you’re not being able to be creative because you’re having to kind of stick to a certain way.


Stromberg Robert: yeah I remember seeing when I was 1516 years old, my dad got Newsweek magazine, and I remember, there was a cover of Newsweek magazine with a picture of your Brenner on it.


Stromberg Robert: And in the King and I and the title said you’ll Brenner celebrates his thousandth show on broadway and I remember thinking, how can somebody do a show 1000 times, would you not just be going out of your mind and i’ve now done triple Espresso 3500 times at least I think that’s conservative.


Stromberg Robert: So yeah that’s a good question, how do you keep it fresh.


Stromberg Robert: It can be a challenge, I always found myself, I had I always reminded myself these people who are at the show some of them brought friends who they’ve been just.


Stromberg Robert: dying to bring to this show, and they bought them tickets at 35 or $43 apiece or whatever it wasn’t any particular theater some of the these families out there have have have spent two $300 to be here tonight.


Stromberg Robert: They deserve the very best show that I can give them and that that alone what became a.


Stromberg Robert: Not a difficult challenge, but a wonderful challenge to go i’m going to give them the very best show that I can today because it would be easy when you know, a show.


Stromberg Robert: As the way we know triple Espresso it’d be easy to phone it in.


Stromberg Robert: And we just refused to do that sometimes we would see new actors come into the show.


Stromberg Robert: And hundred or two or 300 shows in if they are in a city if we censor if I was working with somebody and I sense they were phoning it in they weren’t looking into my eyes when I was speak onstage and I speaking to my song kind of gazing off.


Stromberg Robert: I would really go at them because we’re not going to have that in our in our show we’re going to give everything that we have.


Stromberg Robert: can’t that’s what that’s what a professional does.


Stromberg Robert: it’s that simple that’s what a professional does what would you would you ever asked that to a to a heart surgeon.


Stromberg Robert: or a brain surgeon, you know you have to do this brain surgery stuff every day you’ve been doing this for you’ve been doing this almost 50 years now you’ve done thousands of brain surgeries isn’t it just to how do you keep it fresh, how do you keep.


Stromberg Robert: Well, no barrier very true you’re you’re you’re.


Stromberg Robert: you’re so good at it, because you’ve done it that many times, and if you start getting sloppy with your work it’s it’s going to show and brain surgery.


Stromberg Robert: But it’s going to show up on the stage two and i’ve i’ve seen it i’ve seen I saw I saw one time, I went remember, I was it we were living in New England at the time, I went to see.


Stromberg Robert: Richard Harris and Camelot he originally did it I think in the West end and broadway and i’d seen him in the Camelot movie when I was a kid, and I mean this just said, I was so excited.


Stromberg Robert: And Richard Harris, maybe he was having a contract dispute or something I don’t know what was going on his life.


Stromberg Robert: But I have never seen anybody so bored in a performance in my life, and he was the guy that everybody was there to see.


Stromberg Robert: And I remember just being being angry, it was just so evident that he did poorly so.


Stromberg Robert: I mean that’s a long way of answering your question but that’s what a professional does you do you do it over and over and over again, David, I know that you have when you’re.


Stromberg Robert: You speak on the same topic over and over and over again so.


Stromberg Robert: I know that you’re wide open to if something happens if you grab something on the plane you and it works you’re going to use it, because it’s so fresh but lots of times that won’t happen and you’re going to give that talk again.


Stromberg Robert: or you’re going to take pieces of your talks because well usually I do this in three hours but.


Stromberg Robert: I only have 40 minutes but i’m going to, but this is what they want so i’m going to put these pieces of my talks together to make it real clear that the point i’m trying to make but you’ve done those things 1000 times.


Stromberg Robert: But you do it like this is the first time, because it is the first time for those people.


David Horsager: And they live it’s the it’s the you know yo the live audience virtually it’s it’s even harder, these days, and I, the only advice I would add to that with story is, at least in a story is I just tried to put myself there again.


David Horsager: yeah and that daughter was riding the sheep in that rodeo that.


David Horsager: idea of the story of or whatever it is that, like what I get I put myself there and that’s when i’m at my best on a story.


David Horsager: newest research and all that we get you know some keep I keep trying to keep myself fresh so it’s contextualize but you’re right some of that every time for years has been that’s the truth that we give right there and it works and yep.


David Horsager: I tried to be under, so this is.


Stromberg Robert: This is, can I see, can I say something yeah I one of the things that’s.


Stromberg Robert: A benefit or an interesting thing about your work and my work is that traveling on planes a lot we do run into two people who are more famous than us and.


Stromberg Robert: That we recognize right away, and the most one of the most fun ones for me was Mr Rogers flying out of New England, he had gotten a honorary doctorate at Yale The night before and so.


Stromberg Robert: I walked on the plane and I just I just leaned over to him and I said hey Fred thanks so much my boys my kids are little and thanks for.


Stromberg Robert: Just the way that you have blessed our family it’s been it’s been wonderful and he said well tell me about your boys Bob tell me who what are their names and I told him and he goes he goes now listen.


Stromberg Robert: I want you to tell your boys that when I look in that camera lens and I, and I talk i’m talking right to them.


Stromberg Robert: And that’s one of the things during code that that’s come back to me and i’ve gone I can’t hear these people.


Stromberg Robert: i’m trying to do comedy for these people they’re they’re sitting places and they’re not an audience’s.


Stromberg Robert: I like to have an audience that’s been our understanding as as a public speaker so we have an audience, we say something they respond.


Stromberg Robert: facially or physically or audibly and then we know how we’re doing as a result, and we respond and we adjust well we can’t do that virtually.


Stromberg Robert: And so I have found my friends words coming back to me and i’m going I don’t know who this person is out there, but i’m talking to you now work at that yeah.


David Horsager: Well, here we are we’ve had some great time together it’s time for the lightning round we could go all afternoon on this episode and I could ask i’m just so grateful.


David Horsager: For the impact you’ve made in my life but let’s go to the quickfire questions so a sentence each all you get here we go what’s your favorite book or resource right now.


Stromberg Robert: Right now, it is the divine conspiracy by Dallas willard.


David Horsager: Great one conspiracy will put all these answers in the show notes, so you want to reach out check out check out what they’re about I have had that on my nightstand and read it fantastic what’s something you can’t live without bob’s drummer.


Stromberg Robert: pretzels I cannot live without pretzels and that’s been from the time I was a child.


David Horsager: Is that soft ones with cheese or is that crunchy ones like crackers.


Stromberg Robert: it’s any kind but it’s mainly crunchy and it’s mainly fat ones yeah and it’s particular types that I enjoy too, but yeah.


David Horsager: There yo best advice or quote you’ve been given.


Stromberg Robert: Well, oh boy.


Stromberg Robert: gosh, this is the kind of you probably shouldn’t give me this ahead of time I could have because that this is one of these deals, where we get off down with a podcast i’ll go Oh well, there we go.


Stromberg Robert: It should have had them.


David Horsager: How about a piece of advice.


Stromberg Robert: doesn’t that piece of advice.


Stromberg Robert: yeah I, I would say.


Stromberg Robert: My piece of advice would be practice the process.


Stromberg Robert: don’t think about the outcome as much practice the process.


David Horsager: You know it’s a bump talk a lot about outcomes and results and certainly.


David Horsager: Business people do leaders do and pro sports teams, they got to get more wins governments, we got to get this thing passed.


David Horsager: And this is a readily this this hit me today to you know I, we need to get results but practice of spending some time on the practice, maybe even over the outcome, I could see better outcomes coming more creative ones for sure.


David Horsager: Based on what you said, so I love that one thing left to do on Bob stromberg bucket list.


David Horsager: you’ve done.


Stromberg Robert: Well, I tell you i’ve never had i’ve never been much of a bucket list person.


Stromberg Robert: and honest to goodness, a lot of it’s because i’m so grateful for, where I am at the present and lots of times the those have been places where I haven’t particularly wanted to be and uh but i’ve been no i’m going to be thankful for this and.


David Horsager: i’m going to ask it a different way, because I.


David Horsager: Think that’s a good point what’s your what’s a hope for the future.


Stromberg Robert: Well, for my own from my own future personally David, I hope that i’ll i’ll have a another season of.


Stromberg Robert: meaningful work.


Stromberg Robert: I know that we’ve only been out of work now most of us in in the fields that we’re at we’ve only been out of work for 10 months being in front of people that’s not a very long time, I mean.


Stromberg Robert: These things this that type of a delay could have been caused by illness, it could have been caused by anything.


Stromberg Robert: But I do find myself coming and people ask the question is this going to come back what’s going to change, how is it going to be different will, will you be able to stand in front of.


Stromberg Robert: audiences jammed in a small room together laughing hard all over each other, because that was always the point and i’m hoping, there will be another season for me to be able to do that.


Stromberg Robert: I feel I feel like I finally honest to goodness, I feel like I finally gotten good at what I do I finally understand it.


Stromberg Robert: I finally know how to do it, I find myself more confident, all well up until up until March 12 I find myself that I think to myself.


Stromberg Robert: I can be in front of anybody, and I understand what I need to do for those people and and then it’s gone so that’s that’s been disappointing to me and a hope is that I might have another season of that.


David Horsager: love it i’ve got one last question for you.


David Horsager: Before I ask it.


David Horsager: Where can everybody find out more about Bob stromberg and tell us just a little bit about the course.


Stromberg Robert: yeah if you’d like to find out about booking Bob stromberg Bob stromberg calm is the place to do that, and there are there’s some there’s written info there, but there are also several videos that you can watch to get a feel for the kind of work that I could do for you in your setting.


Stromberg Robert: And then also resource resources to to help should use a site to book it so that’s Bob stromberg calm the course is at mastering the craft of creativity.com mastering the craft of creativity.com.


Stromberg Robert: it’s I think there’s 1213 hours of video there, there are exercises to help one develop those neural pathways those habitual patterns, so that this process of grabbing and interrogating and transforming becomes.


Stromberg Robert: Automatic we are creatures of habit, all of us are we don’t even think about this, but when you get up in the morning.


Stromberg Robert: When you get up tomorrow morning you’re going to put the same shoe on first that you put on first this morning that’s you don’t even have to think about it, but.


Stromberg Robert: In fact, try it the other way and it’ll mess up your whole day, so we need that we need to develop those neural pathways a habitual pathways in order to do the process well and David i’ve put a I have put a special code in there.


Stromberg Robert: For those interested in buying the course just trust edge one word if they put trust agenda ignore the code I think it’s one, it says they’re typing made to create to save on the course forget it trust edge will get you a huge savings, I mean almost giving it away so.


David Horsager: You know, huge thanks all of that will be in the show notes trusted leader show.com and we’re going to put it all there and we want to point you to one of the funniest guys in the world, and one of the greatest guys.


Stromberg Robert: In the world before you.


David Horsager: Go a question though it’s the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust and why.


Stromberg Robert: well.


Stromberg Robert: I trust Jesus.


Stromberg Robert: and


Stromberg Robert: Why because because I again you trust based upon experience, trust is earned it just doesn’t happen you don’t just walk in and trust somebody because somebody says Oh, you should trust this person or that person.


Stromberg Robert: You, you have to that has to be earned and I have sought to follow Christ, since I was a just a kid.


Stromberg Robert: I mean a young boy, and he has proven to be faithful to me over and over and over and over again, and as that trust builds, of course, it becomes easier to trust, but I will go to him before i’ll go to anybody.


Stromberg Robert: I do go to him yeah.


David Horsager: yeah yeah well there you have it, it is a great example, and it has been a treat to be with you, someone, I trust, a whole lot just as a friend and a leader.


David Horsager: A phenomenal conversation all kinds of tips all kinds of thoughts all kinds of inspiration, you can find out more we’ll put that in the show notes, this has been the trusted leader show with Bob stromberg today, thank you, Bob.


Stromberg Robert: you’re welcome, thank you, David Thank you.


David Horsager: To everybody out there, stay trusted.

Ep. 24: Elizabeth Sarquis and Alejandro Fenn on Why Leaders MUST Show Up

In this episode, David sits down with Elizabeth Sarquis, Founder and CEO of Global Gaming Initiative and Jukko, and Alejandro Fenn, Co-Founder of Global Gaming Initiative and Jukko, to discuss why leaders MUST show up every single time.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Elizabeth’s Bio:
Elizabeth is Founder and CEO of Global Gaming Initiative and Jukko. She is a pioneer in the mobile games, advertising and ecommerce spaces, dedicated to using these mediums to create social impact. A founding member of the BCorp Women CEO leadership group, she loves all things family, design and music, is a proud Colombiana and is passionate about working with fellow creatives using their skills to create the revolution the world needs.

Alejandro’s Bio:
Alejandro is Co-Founder of Global Gaming Initiative, a mobile game developer and publisher dedicated to using the power of games for social good. He is also Co-Founder of Jukko, a purpose-driven advertising network and works extensively with purpose-driven entrepreneurs and businesses on all things marketing and strategy. He is an avid outdoor enthusiast and as a true Minnesotan believes there is no bad weather, only bad preparation.

Elizabeth’s Links:
Website: https://elizabethsarquis.com/
Global Gaming Initiative: https://www.globalgaminginitiative.com/
Jukko: https://jukko.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-sarquis-011bb95/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ellesarquis/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabeth_sarquis/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcpOXw-ioIiV0nCrCdh1Qbg

Alejandro’s Links:
Global Gaming Initiative: https://www.globalgaminginitiative.com/
Jukko: https://jukko.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alejandrofenn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alejandrofenn/

Key Quotes:
1. “I’m a mother first.”
2. “I’m a firm believer in skin in the game.”
3. “Its not about reproducing the same things. Its about where we go next.”
4. “This is never a failure, and there’s always more opportunities around the corner.”
5. “You gotta ask for help.”
6. “You really treasure your friends. You really treasure your family.”
7. “You’ve really got to take care of the people that take care of you.”
8. “You have to have faith that everything is going to turn out.”
9. “We as leaders, or as humans, we’re curious, and we need to learn all the time because that’s how we grow.”
10. “You gotta show up.”
11. “You can’t be a distant leader.”
12. “Keep the inertia going.”
13. “Don’t let anyone take away your joy.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Oura Ring: https://ouraring.com/
Slack: https://slack.com/
Asana: https://asana.com/
Seasonal Sunlight Lamp: https://amzn.to/2R67w0r
“Skin In The Game” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb: https://amzn.to/3wxgHrf
“The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz: https://amzn.to/3t0HBWe
Global Gaming Initiative: https://www.globalgaminginitiative.com/
Jukko: https://jukko.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and we are in for a treat today.


David Horsager: My dear friend Elizabeth Sarquis is on the show today her brilliant and amazing partner in work happens to be her son out of Williams college he’s the technical genius he cares about economics and about the future of the world and it’s a treat to have both of you on today.


Alejandro Fenn: Thank you, David.


awesome.


David Horsager: Thank you, and you know what first time for this show we’ve had two people on at once, so it’s a it’s it’s a treat but I got to tell you about Elizabeth because she.


David Horsager: When I met her we were part of a mastermind group together, but she lights up a room more than that she is she started.


David Horsager: The global gaming initiative and juku we’re going to talk about those I thought, a few other things that are interesting global gaming initiative has repeatedly made the B corp best for the world list, she has the Ellis Island medal of honor the highest award ever.


David Horsager: You know, given for first generation immigrants a whole lot of other things she cares about.


David Horsager: Really social good and she cares about health and life and she is a trusted leader and as a team wow so Alejandro and Elizabeth Thank you so much for being on the show let’s get to it, each of you take a minute or two tell us what do we need to know about you.


Alejandro Fenn: I will defer to Elizabeth.


Alejandro Fenn: When I started my career, I really had a singular focus and that was always looking at how I could make the world better specifically for kids.


Alejandro Fenn: So what you need to know about me is i’m a mother first my faith is critically important to me, and so is my family and everything that I do has that very singular focus is like what’s the perspective of how we’re going to impact children.


David Horsager: amazing yeah it’s an end yet you’ve done all these things you’ve done that’s been the focus you’ve been a judge on the elevator pitch show from entrepreneur.com you I mean.


David Horsager: You do all these things, helping people understand how do you build a business, how do you how do you make change through.


David Horsager: Business and through your nonprofit initiatives let’s jump on over to you Alejandro and how do you work together, but who are you and how do you work together in this work.


Alejandro Fenn: Well, in terms of how I got into like my career of path and all the things that are going on, it actually started in a car, I was driving to.


Alejandro Fenn: The Albany train station, I was in college at the time, and it was snowing it was cold, it was dark as a one way each way kind of highway and I hit a deer.


Alejandro Fenn: totaled my car I was totally fine.


Alejandro Fenn: Thanks to the powers above, but what I was on my way to go, interview for was like a banking job.


Alejandro Fenn: So I was there for like getting like a summer internship type of interview, and that moment, it was like a sign.


Alejandro Fenn: That like hey I, this is probably not the path for me the path for me is more in alignment with with what I can do, and my skills of.


Alejandro Fenn: bringing people together being really, really able to organize teams create efficiencies.


Alejandro Fenn: All of course trying to do as much as we can, so we leave this place, better than we found it, and so you know for all things technology that we do.


Alejandro Fenn: And branding and marketing and really just like helping entrepreneurs, take a good idea and really first assess the idea assess the market all that important preliminary work and then executing on it and helping these awesome companies and people behind them flourish.


David Horsager: you’re doing amazing work i’ve seen so you got to be proud as a friend and mom Elizabeth but was this before after being a principal scientist with the lithium battery.


Research.


David Horsager: let’s go on here, we got this.


David Horsager: William college Grad and economics with you know all that brilliance and you got this technological branch, and you were on a you know lithium battery research group I mean this is that this is a quite a quite a ride we’re on here today and I knew it would be.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah I mean the funny thing about that was it happened to be the hottest summer ever in Minnesota for about a week and a half and so literally the entire office.


Alejandro Fenn: was like 100 degrees, because it was like hundred 15 degree real field temperature because they had to keep the dry rooms cold, so we were just sweating buckets.


David Horsager: Oh man, well, I can tell you we’re on something i’m from the twin city, you know where the in the twin cities area today that’s the studio place and we are on track for the.


David Horsager: One of only three times in history in the last hundred and 47 years that we won’t break zero degrees below zero weather in Minnesota which is interesting.


David Horsager: Although last weekend that was up in Luton with my son, and the first day we went got on the slopes, it was nine below up there, so anyway.


interesting.


David Horsager: Interesting track record let’s let’s jump into this let’s talk we’re going to talk about leadership we’re going to talk about life, but I want to know a little bit.


David Horsager: Elizabeth let’s start with you on global gaming initiative, because everything you’ve done has been about social impact and changing the world for good.


David Horsager: But you know this global gaming and a shift we all watch the social dilemma we we’ve got parents and friends saying well you know gaming is bad and you can’t make good out of technology and in some ways for kids and yet you’ve taken a different approach.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah so global gaming initiative has really organically grown into being something very different from its birth.


Alejandro Fenn: When you know our first product that we ever released was strictly about getting bicycles, in the hands of kids so they could get to school.


Alejandro Fenn: So we’ve gone from that to being the leaders in the in the Games for good space and what I mean when I say that as people reach out to us and ask us hey.


Alejandro Fenn: I want to do something good, I want to make this you know product whether it’s a game or an APP or an or even you know it could be apparel all sorts of things that how do I do that.


Alejandro Fenn: And it’s really it’s really it’s really fun because because you know I don’t want them to waste time I want you know I want to transfer my knowledge as best I can.


Alejandro Fenn: Because when I started I didn’t have a playbook I had no playbook I was one of the few women in the industry, and it was like literally the wild Wild West and so fast yes.


David Horsager: No just tell us tell us about a product today how are, how are you helping someone go from idea to to something that’s helping change the world for good in some way through the global gaming initiative.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah Okay, so I can’t really disclose the specifics, because it’s you know still you know, intellectual property and I can’t share the details of the project, but we’re working with a school librarian who’s a CEO who’s also developing a digital citizenship game.


Alejandro Fenn: How cool is that for grades two through six they have some amazing art already so when when she first reached out to me.


Alejandro Fenn: She was like hey do you think you can help me because I don’t know how to do the development side of this, I have this whole idea, so we start with conversations and I assess like what is your goal.


Alejandro Fenn: To really align to see if we have the same alignment, because one of the worst things you can do in this space is have someone think that you can just transfer whatever they have.


Alejandro Fenn: That you know in their mind or on printed to digital and the mechanics or even for them to think that they know how the mechanics are going to work.


Alejandro Fenn: Because they’re not experts in that area they know they can tell me their dream, they can tell us their goals, but then it’s up to the developers and designers on our teams to really look at it and say hey.


Alejandro Fenn: So i’m super pumped about that project because.


Alejandro Fenn: it’s about kids it’s about doing well you know when you go down this road there’s a consequence, when you take this road there’s a different consequence so it’s it’s about doing good actions.


Alejandro Fenn: And I love that, and so the concern that parents have about video games or any not even video games social media it’s real and it’s so critically, vital that we address and provide alternatives right.


Alejandro Fenn: Absolutely so that’s one of the projects that i’m really excited about because it’s like totally what I believe in.


David Horsager: Well you’re a purpose driven do Oh, you know tell us about the Alejandro tell us a part of it that you’re loving right now, a part of this work that you’re loving and passionate about right now.


Alejandro Fenn: Well, for me, it’s from a from a bird’s eye view it’s I did to wake up, if I went to sleep, which I tried to.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, try to go to bed early now, but the point is like everything that i’m doing everyone that i’m working with are a people that I believe in through you know many conversations I never jumped into.


Alejandro Fenn: Working with a company or an entrepreneur until like i’ve really gotten to know them.


Alejandro Fenn: So I believe in them on a personal level, I believe in their business and business opportunity, and you know, to a degree, they have to of course believe in it themselves, of course, they need cheerleaders and champions.


Alejandro Fenn: And I am a firm believer in skin in the game helping the businesses when they’re small helping them as much as you can give value.


Alejandro Fenn: Without like the standard kind of consulting or like some other term you would associate with like, how you get compensated and really just helping them.


Alejandro Fenn: achieve massive success, because you know that’s what it’s all about, so I just am so blessed that like when I wake up, I always know i’m gonna do what I love helping people using my skills figuring stuff out as needed, and you know I can rest easy at night.


David Horsager: How do you guys, you know, this makes me think of you know, the pandemic so many people had to pivot you were already in technology.


David Horsager: But how do you I mean.


David Horsager: Especially i’ve known Elizabeth a lot longer you’ve pivoted you’ve changed you’ve tweaked you’re always getting better you’re getting better at this you’re shifting this you’re changing that for the better, so that you can have.


David Horsager: A more better greater impact, but what are you doing right now to innovate, or how have you been kind of created that mindset or culture of innovation in this, you know kind of innovative space of technology, or you know how do you keep doing that.


Alejandro Fenn: wow that’s a loaded question yeah so it’s not about reproducing the same things it’s about where we go next So if I were to tell you one of the one of the businesses that we’re working on right now, it has nothing to do with games and it doesn’t have anything to do with mobile advertising.


Alejandro Fenn: it’s a product based business that has everything to do with you know P P products.


Alejandro Fenn: has huge social impact.


Alejandro Fenn: But yeah I mean in terms of how we pivoted and we’ve had to pivot a lot, especially with our ad tech business.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, obviously we knew that going in as we built our own like set of technology to support.


Alejandro Fenn: That kind of business but that’s it’s a tough it’s a tough industries just considering the market power and monopolization and so yeah we had to.


Alejandro Fenn: We had some low moments, we had to pivot a little bit, and you know it’s almost like you got to internalize as a entrepreneur as a business person as a person.


Alejandro Fenn: Like hey this is never a failure and there’s always more opportunities around the corner, but you have to tell yourself that like this is a learning and.


Alejandro Fenn: You have to be grateful for all the things you learn through that process that that you can then take in in a multitude of different directions, because.


David Horsager: let’s.


David Horsager: let’s jump in here what’s.


David Horsager: going to keep things going and you’re this is this is fascinating what’s one thing Alejandro what’s one thing you learned in the midst of the crisis what’s one thing you took away that you’re gonna like this is something i’m going to do differently now because of something you learned.


Alejandro Fenn: I think the main thing for me is you got to ask for help and you got to do it aggressively but like with love, of course, and with gratitude and that comes across but.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, asking for help the people that support you and that believe in you they’ll be there for you.


Alejandro Fenn: And, just like not being shy about it, you know I think in earlier days of like me starting these businesses with my mom there were times, where I was kind of shy to like really go out and ask the questions to get the information to get the guidance and now it’s like hey not even close.


Alejandro Fenn: No.


David Horsager: I was gonna say I remember last time we were, I think, but all together, all three I think I was speaking at the world or the excuse me, the rocky mountain Economic Forum, and I know one thing you did it just to give.


David Horsager: You know a lot of times i’m talking to leaders and they say they care about social impact and care about others and blah blah blah blah, I mean.


David Horsager: Elizabeth cares really cares one of our dear friends had a brother that was in the hospital.


David Horsager: hours and hours away and she left everything at the Forum jumped in the car with them.


David Horsager: And road hours to go see this friend that had an accident, I mean I just I see it, firsthand when I see you guys, not just in this mission away, not this.


David Horsager: mission, but people are living out you’re going to have a B corp you’re going to have more scrutiny and business side, but also on the personal side, and you know.


David Horsager: This this let’s jump to this Elizabeth what’s something you’ve learned in this kind of last year of crisis that you’re taking forward.


Alejandro Fenn: You really treasure your your friends, you really treasure your family.


Alejandro Fenn: there’s really.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, one of the things I heard in the very beginning of the pandemic is is that the most important thing right now is to stay alive.


Alejandro Fenn: You can’t do anything if you’re not you know alive and it’s not just a physical thing because there’s a lot of mental health things that happened during this period of time and and and I had to struggle, a great deal with you know, bringing my mother from Colombia.


Alejandro Fenn: Due to the pandemic and and it was very difficult, there was a lot of stress to become her primary caregiver it taught me a lot, because my mother has so many health issues.


Alejandro Fenn: Everything from dementia to orthopedic issues, and so you know, working with the government, the US embassy to get her out was really hard all of these things and just you wouldn’t believe what we had to do.


Alejandro Fenn: To get her into the country, and then I have friends that you know, asking me do I need a plane to go in there and i’m like you can’t the country shut down their airways so So for me what I learned is number one you’ve really got to take care of the people that take care of you.


Alejandro Fenn: And number two, you have to have faith that everything is going to turn out.


David Horsager: I love that you know that that.


David Horsager: That faith piece that goes back to what many of you know, the Stockdale paradox of of.


David Horsager: You know Admiral Stockdale the highest ranking individual in the Vietnam War and he’s he’s asked what is it about the people that died here it’s like they were the optimists.


David Horsager: What is it about what about you know what is it about the people that made it.


David Horsager: Well, they had two things, and it was a balance of two things, and it was number one they’re willing to confront the brutal truth there’s really.


David Horsager: Bad stuff happening, you and I saw people that said oh pandemics nothing Oh, this is nothing they’re willing to confront the brutal truth but they had a paradox with.


David Horsager: Long term faith in the good to come, ultimately, it wasn’t short term optimism of we’re going to be out in two months, and then they didn’t make it out, it was a long term faith balanced with a willingness to look at the.


David Horsager: Look at the brutal facts of the day, and I think that’s some of what we’re talking about in mix that in with.


David Horsager: Your care of the people close to you and I think, by the way, that’s something I saw great leaders do in this time we saw bad leadership and I walked with some leaders CEOs and leaders that didn’t do things very well and lost a whole lot of trust.


David Horsager: And we walked with some that actually gain trust while they laid off 2000 people because of their empathy and care for their people in the midst of the crisis over last year, so, so I love that you know it, when we talk about trusted leadership and all the work we’re doing, we know.


David Horsager: there’s people that are healthy at home or in life are healthier as leaders in many ways.


David Horsager: Well, I know, both of you care about physical spiritual and life, help and that health and that has helped you be helped the leaders of many and I want to get back into how you’ve led some of your teams, especially Elizabeth.


David Horsager: right on that, but first of all let’s go to what routines do you have personally that help you be healthy, so that you can lead well.


Alejandro Fenn: Okay, would you like to go first i’ll start off with very routine oriented off with some fun ones first off.


Alejandro Fenn: And it’s it sounds kind of lame but, having a water bottle that you’ll actually drink.


Alejandro Fenn: The appropriate amount for the day, which I think for men is 11 to 15 cups obviously the body weight slightly variant for women like eight to 11 again body weight and.


Alejandro Fenn: But like I got a one of those water bottles that like that you see on TV for the nfl players have a sideline like those squeezy gatorade ones I actually drink the water so that’s a huge like I feel so much more energetic I feel like my cells are nourished huge little thing.


David Horsager: And that’s not a little thing that’s a huge thing we’re.


David Horsager: Mostly made out of water and I lost 22 pounds and we talked about seeds here as CDs and the D stands for drink water drink water love it do you have another thing something else that 100.


Alejandro Fenn: I mean, I could go on for days and next one, is, I really like this, because you know it’s like you don’t always have time to cook.


Alejandro Fenn: And sure it’s really important to learn how to make amazing food that takes like 15 minutes to prepare very important skill underrated.


Alejandro Fenn: But, alas, having a really good blender and we’ve been doing, like, for the last six months, like you put in a bunch of frozen fruit.


Alejandro Fenn: You put in a bunch of Greens like spinach kale whatever you got I mean go hard go broccoli your seeds your chia seeds flax seeds water some like cinnamon I mean you can dates, if you want to sweeten it up.


Alejandro Fenn: Huge nice thing because, like you can just always just drink that and have that be food when the day is crazy and when you’re running around sometimes like a chicken with your head cut off, which is what happens.


David Horsager: I love it alright Elizabeth let’s hear a few of yours.


Alejandro Fenn: Okay So for me as soon as my feet touch the ground in the morning I just am so grateful I start my day when I can get that mindset of gratitude and prayer for me it’s a very important way to start my day.


Alejandro Fenn: I can move through the day much, much calmer I you know I feel like I have less stress when I do that and then.


Alejandro Fenn: In the evening when you know I always try to do a relaxing kind of routine and, for me it involves multiple things like you know.


Alejandro Fenn: Playing some video games okay you guys know I like video games, so I have certain ones that exhaust my brain like go ones that are puzzles and word scapes and stuff like that and games.


Alejandro Fenn: That tax me a little bit, and then I do like you know some type of relaxing routine whether it’s baths candles whatever but.


Alejandro Fenn: that’s always the key and, for me, the other key that’s really been important and zero is kind of I mean I don’t know if you guys do it, but it’s the do not disturb on my phone.


Alejandro Fenn: So I used to take advantage of that and and and then you would hear and you would see like I have a ridiculous number of emails and I don’t i’m not proud of it, I need to get them, you know eliminated for my.


Alejandro Fenn: mind, but if you didn’t have that on you would hear the beep beep beep the whole night yeah.


Alejandro Fenn: Not not only that, but calls and obviously whatsapp and.


Alejandro Fenn: wechat and all the other people they reach out from different technology platforms for me.


David Horsager: And for you from other parts of the world that who knows.


Alejandro Fenn: What.


Alejandro Fenn: The night right, and they have different time zones, so that, and then I would say, the last thing that’s been very important for me is I got this aura ring aura.


David Horsager: Oh yeah.


Alejandro Fenn: And for sleep, you know, for those of us who have the creative brain that doesn’t cut off having this kind of routine is really important, because it reminds me it says hey it’s almost your ideal bedtime.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah.


David Horsager: I mean I tell about the ring really quick, because my my cousin who runs a company just got it and he thought I had one on when I have.


This.


David Horsager: yeah, this is a rubber ring because I smashed my gold one, and then I, and then I had a something it was playing basketball with my son and actually.


David Horsager: He jam, or maybe I did, but the basketball jam my finger and actually, that was a half a year ago and it never did and swell all the way, so I couldn’t get the ring on i’m like.


David Horsager: i’m just get my my assistant has a her husband and they got this for their wedding and i’m like this is silicon it’s 30 bucks.


Alejandro Fenn: I know I know that company, I know the company.


David Horsager: Has love it because it.


David Horsager: Just it’s so comfortable I don’t want to go back to my gold one now.


David Horsager: it’s just it’s in a jar and I can never use it again.


David Horsager: I told my wife, she knows I love her, and you know it’s just this is so comfortable, but he was talking about this ring, so you know we’re not we’re not sponsored by them or anything but just tell us what’s what’s an hour regretted ordering do.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah so I was introduced to them a few years ago and slush in a big tech Conference in Helsinki and basically what it does.


Alejandro Fenn: And you know I looked at it over time and I didn’t wasn’t ready to purchase it back then, because I didn’t know what it did, but during the pandemic or little bit before the pandemic started, I was like.


Alejandro Fenn: Oh, we should get these rings so basically it’s connected to an APP and basically monitors everything about your sleep.


Alejandro Fenn: It monitors your activity and monitors your your deep rem sleep it tells you what time you’re awake and it’s also has cooled reminders about you know this is your ideal time to go to sleep.


Alejandro Fenn: And so it pings you and says hey you should be you know preparing for your sleep.


Alejandro Fenn: And now they’ve even updated some sleep stories so think like calm or something like that which i’m not a fan of for me personally it doesn’t help me.


Alejandro Fenn: But this story is there, like history history of the moon, or something I was like Okay, I can listen to that and go to sleep now on I want because.


Alejandro Fenn: You know i’m a constant learner I think that’s what leaders do we, we as leaders or as humans, we were curious, and we need to learn all the time because that’s how we grow.


David Horsager: I love it so tell me this Elizabeth you know we’re both actually before I jumped from this, I know you’re also physically fit, so I want to.


David Horsager: I want to just ask that question, what are you doing you know, in the midst of our busy schedules off and it’s like when, am I going to get that done i’m up in the morning boom and especially for you to you might.


David Horsager: have had something come in from Kenya and then you got an email it’s got to go to Singapore and then you got people are awake at this time.


David Horsager: Right, so I mean we could be on all the time, I do have something where I wake up, sometimes about four in the morning, thinking about something and I tried it, I have my journal right next to my.


David Horsager: bed, so I can just get that off my head right away, and have it there in the morning I don’t jump to technology in the middle night but sometimes you know.


David Horsager: our minds are going, and I know the one thing for me is if i’m exercising it makes all the difference with sleep and how I eat everything else.


David Horsager: But I know you do some things regularly what tell it tell about your physical fitness and how do you I guess one kind of what do you do and to how do you fit it in.


David Horsager: How do you make sure you do it.


Alejandro Fenn: it’s not a choice because if you I, like you find that if I don’t do something every day I can’t sleep So for me whether it’s a walk around the lake or when i’m in utah obviously hiking skiing and all the cool sports that we love to do.


Alejandro Fenn: we’ve just taken up snowshoeing so Minnesota doesn’t have very good mountains for skiing so it was a little bit challenging in that way, so we have snowshoes now and your last weekend, we did like a 10 mile equivalent to a 10 mile snowshoe.


Alejandro Fenn: tracks one yeah and it’s going, and I call it expeditions so I make it fun, so what I say is like we’re going to go on an expedition and and you’re going to go outdoors or sometimes you go to some you know.


Alejandro Fenn: State parks there’s a lot of beautiful state parks in Minnesota that I didn’t even know about prior to now love it and and I grew up here.


David Horsager: We say this all the time you’ve got to find in Minnesota just like you can say there’s really no bad weather just bad clothing.


David Horsager: You have the right clothing on you know but it’s the same with if you don’t find something in Minnesota to get you outside in the winter to let you know, to get your physical.


David Horsager: that’s the people have problems, but so so people know you guys have a place out silicon slopes out in utah we love I love fly fishing and skiing they’re my two favorite things to do so, you know I love being out in utah and then you’re also in Minnesota you’re in Minnesota today.


David Horsager: And I.


David Horsager: And Columbia.


Alejandro Fenn: Columbia sure.


David Horsager: Exactly sorry.


Alejandro Fenn: I wish I was right now.


that’s.


David Horsager: Right so walking hiking snowshoeing you got to find something you’ll do Alejandro.


David Horsager: What do you what you know your body at your age can just can handle a little less discipline and yet you’re a discipline guy which is going to be good for when you put a few more years on, that sleek SLIM a healthy gentleman’s body they have, but what What do you do fit wise.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah the.


Alejandro Fenn: The, the main thing that i’ve been doing and actually started right when the pandemic hit just as a.


Alejandro Fenn: Something to do for a bunch of my older family members is I do like a functional strength zoom class, so we have like combination functional strength.


Alejandro Fenn: And then things like Chi gong more breathing centric exercises and, like, I have not lifted any weights really in nine months and i’m still like equally as strong.


Alejandro Fenn: Just from doing that it’s just like you know, working on the basics doing squats for doing foot reflections and flexibility stuff working your back.


Alejandro Fenn: neck obviously super important to like just doing basically PT exercises and still do it every day with like a bunch of different friends and family members of all ages and just as a way for all of us to to stay on top of things yeah.


David Horsager: Community you got physical right there, but when do you do it first thing in the morning midday.


Alejandro Fenn: How do you get.


David Horsager: scheduled, so you don’t get it.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah I prefer middle of the day, for me it kind of like before lunch just because, like you, don’t run it really want to.


Alejandro Fenn: eat and then do some form of exercise so like a 131 o’clock is like my preference, but obviously each of us has their own like body clock and you just got to figure out what works and make it happen and block the calendar.


David Horsager: And that’s what when do you block the calendar for that.


Alejandro Fenn: it’s just 130 to two every day okay.


David Horsager: yeah that’s just that it just hey everybody it’s just 130 to do come on now.


David Horsager: For those of us that still are working in offices, I mean I my next office space i’m going to have a workout gym right there where the shower because I would like it better middle of the day, too, but it’s not so you know when we’re at home or summits, you know it’s one thing so.


David Horsager: All right, i’m going to shoot to the producer Kent, what do you, what do you got for these guys.


David Horsager: hey guys, so I was wondering obviously you guys both work together closely on a lot of projects and stuff and I was thinking, how do you kind of kind of bridge that.


David Horsager: professional and personal.


David Horsager: relationship and being able to actually balance that well because I feel like there’s a lot of people that like.


David Horsager: Maybe it’s like a mom and pop shop, maybe they’re hiring their you know, one of their kids or like a family business, and I feel like I know people that like that’s really.


David Horsager: term like full of turmoil and a lot of stress and problems or how do you kind of balance that so that you can still have a you know be productive professionally but still obviously still have a good, solid relationship personally.


Alejandro Fenn: Do you want to answer that sure i’ll start it off, I mean we don’t really have a dividing line or any like serious breaks like that in terms of separating the two buckets.


Alejandro Fenn: really what we have, and you know i’m grateful for it every day is the highest level of internal trust between the two of us trust and respect.


Alejandro Fenn: You know we’ve all got stuff going on we’ve all got our own sets of problems and anxieties and things we’re obviously really good at or not so good at, and all that stuff and.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, for us it’s a just emanates from that supreme level of trust, respect and understanding and so with that we don’t really ever have to like separate the two will laugh about everything, like the work stuff together when you know, things are hitting the fan and.


Alejandro Fenn: You know that’s that’s really what I see what I see an experience.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah I think for me it’s.


Alejandro Fenn: Very first of all, I was very unexpected that that Alejandro and I would ever work together.


Alejandro Fenn: So you know, in the beginning i’m sure it seemed more of a.


Alejandro Fenn: Like a hierarchical structure that’s gone.


Alejandro Fenn: he’s like completely my peers.


Alejandro Fenn: So, so there isn’t any of that kind of.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, conflict and also, I think it just we flow.


Alejandro Fenn: And I don’t know why we flow, I think you know the underlying reasons, must be obviously the preparation, education, the experiences that we’ve had when we started working together, and I just think that.


Alejandro Fenn: On a personal side, he has his personal life I have my personal life, sometimes we do things together, like some like you know the snow shoeing or expeditions as I call them, sometimes I do them with other people, or he does things with the other people.


Alejandro Fenn: So, and I think the most important reason why it works as well, is that we’re both very um.


Alejandro Fenn: we’re we’re both very introverted in the sense that we need time to re energize because we’re so involved in in our work that it’s really cool because we just respect each other’s privacy there’s no there’s no there’s no boundary violation which happens oftentimes right.


David Horsager: And you got and i’m assuming you divide responsibilities are clearly divided yeah because he does some things immensely well you’ve got other parts you do months ago, we talked about this a lot we you know the research says code leadership is terrible.


David Horsager: And I know your co CEOs but co leadership is terrible collaborative leadership is excellent people that try to code, they have to have different responsibilities, otherwise.


David Horsager: And that, which makes collaborative leadership, but if you have two people that are on the same thing all the time that doesn’t work, so the divisions are critical.


Alejandro Fenn: Absolutely, I would not want to do three quarters of the things that he’s brilliant.


David Horsager: I want, I want to ask you a question, because you’re kind of you’re working with.


David Horsager: I mean i’ve seen how warm you are in person, and yet i’ve seen the you know your strength as a leader and it’s this beautiful mix of you’re strong.


David Horsager: And you’re wise and you’re also warm and how do you lead this team internationally, a lot of our listeners are like they’ve got remote leaders you’ve got to do with.


David Horsager: That that that those they’re in charge of digital marketing you kind of have of spread out team, especially we talk about your other company that you’re that you have zuko and how do you actually manage this team all over the place, virtually, how do you lead them.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah I mean you got to show up you can’t be a distant leader you.


Alejandro Fenn: And I think that one of the things that i’ve learned is over the course of time, and specifically working with remote teams from the first time I started building a mobile game with a team in Berlin.


Alejandro Fenn: You have to show up meaning, you have to be involved in the in the product and the project, the whole way through, you have to be on the ground.


Alejandro Fenn: And you know, right now, obviously it’s all virtual but that works out perfectly anyways specifically when you have teams at different parts of the world, but you have to show up.


Alejandro Fenn: You have to be you can’t be so above the meeting times and pulling the projects forward that you are absent, so I think that’s where it’s at and that and I think the passion and the and the championing.


Alejandro Fenn: And just things that for me are innate I would say, their innate in my leadership style.


Alejandro Fenn: And maybe often maybe sometimes and too forgiving.


Alejandro Fenn: But I think the most important thing i’ve learned as a leader as well, is to trust my gut right away.


Alejandro Fenn: because sometimes you can get teams when you’re not working with them in person and you can’t see what’s happening.


Alejandro Fenn: You can allow too much time to pass and some deadlines to not be met, but when you trust yourself, and you know that that has to stop that’s what i’ve learned i’m really good at it now.


David Horsager: So let’s So how are you holding a team let’s say and I don’t know where but let’s say a digital marketing team in.


David Horsager: Berlin, how are you hold you’re not going there anymore, how are you gonna How would you hold them accountable and build a team and and and communicate enough, and you know basically build trust and really kind of manage that project or person or.


Alejandro Fenn: So it’s so it’s not complicated we have we use tools like slack I have so many slack teams and we we have Alejandro who’s brilliant at a sauna.


Alejandro Fenn: And a sauna organizes everything and obviously every tech tool that you can imagine, for projects, you know you name it we haven’t.


Alejandro Fenn: And I think that that’s that’s how you hold it together and and slack you can be kind of conversing in real time like we speak to that are.


Alejandro Fenn: Some folks in China and it’s 14 hours you know time difference so seven o’clock our time pm, then you know it works out for them, because it’s morning time for them, the next day.


Alejandro Fenn: I would add to I you know it’s like, especially when you’re creating something new right which is so much harder than kind of us, you know branching off of something existing without that much change it’s like keeping the inertia going.


Alejandro Fenn: You know it’s so easy to like get going on on a on a new product, a new business new venture, and then you know you just kind of like, especially when you’re not together, where you get that human natural human energy of like the actual people.


Alejandro Fenn: To keep making sure to keep the inertia going, and if that means if one person sick like.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, picking up the pieces and pushing it forward then do it because it it’s you know i’ve experienced it we all have where it’s like that inertia dies and and then it kind of fizzles out and you’re just not able to get where you want to go, particularly when we’re all isolated.


David Horsager: One productivity tip one tip of something you do you guys both get so much done and yet you have time for relationships people health all these other things, a productivity tip either.


Alejandro Fenn: I mean mine is related to the health, which is you just put the good things in your body like so that you never have a stomach ache or any problems and you feel good and like obviously the drinking water and.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, doing a you know every every hour when I do too because i’ve got a big monitor like a lot of us, you know you got to look away from your screen for five minutes you got to do some breathing or like do some push ups or.


Alejandro Fenn: do some wall sets I don’t know it doesn’t matter go on your tippy toes try to touch the ceiling whatever works, but like you gotta do something like that and.


Alejandro Fenn: You know, maybe call your grandma and tell her you love her or something like that also helps.


Alejandro Fenn: Perfect for me, I think it’s absolutely going outside I get affected, I have like.


Alejandro Fenn: You know if i’m not in the Center have some kind of light it’s very detrimental, so I just got one of these seasonal affective disorder lamps.


Alejandro Fenn: And I put him in my office, so if there’s a really dark day I can just pretend that I can look at that and and it makes me feel a little bit better and then also for me it’s the I changed to a whole food plant based lifestyle, two years ago and enormous enormous no fog, you know.


David Horsager: Just tell us what that what’s that look like, with a whole whole premise.


Yes.


Alejandro Fenn: I used to suffer, and you know this because I had it a lot when I initially met you I had a lot of allergies.


Alejandro Fenn: And so I always had allergies and people were suggesting I do this or that.


Alejandro Fenn: And then I had like stomach pains and the doctors were telling me, it was because I traveled to developing countries, well.


Alejandro Fenn: When I switched to a whole food plant based lifestyle I don’t have much of any of that, and so what that means is that I eat whole foods lagoons grains rice tons of vegetables, fruit everything I just don’t eat any animal products.


Alejandro Fenn: Meaning I don’t drink things from your parents farm.


Alejandro Fenn: I don’t.


David Horsager: Remember, where a crop firm.


David Horsager: Plant based.


Alejandro Fenn: Well that’s good.


David Horsager: We didn’t have I did have to I had some lamb some cheap growing up for for four H to learn responsibility but.


David Horsager: farm and, by the way, 91 years old mom and dad still run it, but that 12 1500 acre farm almost all what you just said, like it was.


David Horsager: What we’re most known for when I was growing up was dark red kidney beans that’s great you talk about a bowl of chili or whatever, will take the meat out for you and you can have a nice red gained kidney beans navy beans.


David Horsager: yeah.


David Horsager: That we had we had semi loads.


David Horsager: semi loads of beans.


David Horsager: yeah and we had other things too, but those were the dry edibles yeah.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah so it’s it’s about it’s about so it’s like people say, well, how do you do that don’t you feel like bad or do you miss something no I miss nothing because I feel fantastic.


David Horsager: upgrade is that an alley hundred have you did you do that, to do you feel full without the protein and eggs and bacon in the morning, I mean what do you, what do you think.


Alejandro Fenn: yeah I was the one that got her to do it because I was like hey like you know i’ve I like reading books and stuff like that of all the science, so I.


Alejandro Fenn: suggested to her that hey i’m I just started like eating this way like three months ago, you should try it might help you with xyz and it’s funny now looking back at pictures of both of us from like five years ago we just gotta laugh yeah.


David Horsager: Well, if you can’t if you’re listening to the podcast instead of looking you’ll see some lean mean leaders in front of us.


David Horsager: And, but you know what else just shining glowing smiles.


David Horsager: And you can just tell health right, so I do have a challenge with putting a stake away once in a while, but.


David Horsager: I definitely you know that change me, making sure I get five Green vegetables, a day make sure I mean i’ve got almonds and fruit and it’s just it’s.


David Horsager: In this culture of come on over for cake and ice cream or come over for whatever it’s not always easy, but and everybody knows, I still like ice cream but.


David Horsager: Getting rid of most of certain things even, as you know, this is, this is the start so love it all right here we go Stanford lightning round we’re going to give you each a chance, but it’s going to be quick quick quick.


David Horsager: quick.


David Horsager: All right, we could we could be on all day it’s been amazing already we go back we’ve learned and thought about starting with gratitude.


David Horsager: And every night, maybe playing a fun video game and putting do not disturb on the phone thinking about an orang and having a.


David Horsager: Big of a bottle of water that you’re gonna wants to Funk functional strength.


David Horsager: it’s important to know how to make meals and 15 minutes healthy ones, but that blender sure saves time and is one idea that people could.


David Horsager: Think about divide your work if you’re going to be co leaders divided absolutely clearly.


David Horsager: ask for help with gratitude, we started their treasure your friends and family if I was going to say something about these guys, it is find a way find a way to get it done find a way.


David Horsager: To keep the commitment you got to show up as a leader take time for your people have faith get outside number one productivity tip from this team focused on your health but let’s go to the lightning round it’s time favorite book or resource right now.


Alejandro Fenn: skin in the game.


David Horsager: skin in the game, give us a give us a 32nd snapshot.


Alejandro Fenn: same authors, the black swan.


Alejandro Fenn: amazing amazing analysis of how the economies in in the global economies are affected by.


Alejandro Fenn: The lack of skin in the game.


David Horsager: perfect.


Alejandro Fenn: And when they aren’t okay good.


David Horsager: No we’ll get it and we got it in the show notes you just look look for the show notes you’ll find everything about the global.


David Horsager: gaming initiative you’ll find everything about their other company that can help you if you’re a startup.


David Horsager: get started and get going faster they’ve got the team to help you with everything from building a website to digital marketing to launching and so is that still called zuko are you changing the name.


Alejandro Fenn: Okay zuko zuko is a Community yep.


David Horsager: Do the Google Community that’s an amazing resource that’ll be in the show notes at trusted leader show.com we’ll also put some of these other ideas like skin in the game all right here we go Alejandro what Alejandro what say you favorite book or resource right now.


Alejandro Fenn: or agreements book by don Miguel Ruiz came out about 23 years ago, or so.


Alejandro Fenn: there’s four agreements in life, and this helped me a lot actually this summer, when you know some things were challenging but business life and the like.


Alejandro Fenn: there’s four agreements that I even have a mess posted right next to my bed.


Alejandro Fenn: First agreement is being impeccable with your word, something you talked a lot about David the second one is not taking anything personally.


Alejandro Fenn: Because, at the end of the day, you know all of us are individuals that live life through our own narrow perspective lens and that’s just what it is it’s not our fault that’s just how the brain operates, the third one very crucial, not making assumptions.


Alejandro Fenn: coming in and including not making assumptions about yourself, the most important one and forth always trying your best always trying your best but not over trying, because if you over try it’s just.


Alejandro Fenn: Negative marginal effect and so trying your best, but you know you can’t go overboard it doesn’t do any good.


David Horsager: very, very, very powerful I read about I would say, a decade ago, but I think this reminds me and think Oh, all these things you want to read again right and just be reminded of perfect hey something either of you can’t live without.


Alejandro Fenn: What can you live without honor.


Alejandro Fenn: For me it’s definitely nature going to nature i’m in figuring out, I mean if you live in a city.


Alejandro Fenn: figure out the park, you know I lived in New York for three years going to the little park nearby just being around trees and or whatever you got is a big one, and definitely can’t live without it, I can’t live without music.


Alejandro Fenn: I need music and when my music doesn’t work i’m really upset.


David Horsager: what’s your favorite right now.


Alejandro Fenn: My favorite music yeah as easy Colombian music I like quietness all all the Latin Americans.


David Horsager: love it best advice or favorite quote in one line.


Alejandro Fenn: don’t let anyone take away your joy.


Alejandro Fenn: The best leaders work.


Alejandro Fenn: it’s from Laos it’s I think it goes along the lines of when the best leaders work is done, they will say we did it ourselves i’m.


David Horsager: right that there we go say that one again alejandra.


Alejandro Fenn: When the best leaders work is done, they will say we did it ourselves, yes.


David Horsager: They others will say.


David Horsager: Yes, that clear so everybody understand it’s not that they’ll say about themselves, they did themselves when the best leader, does it, the others will say hey we did this right.


Alejandro Fenn: yep.


David Horsager: love it okay one thing left on your bucket list Elizabeth your bucket list you’ve done so many things already but but quickly one thing left on the bucket list of Elizabeth and then Alejandro.


Alejandro Fenn: Sorry Dave I can’t think of anything other than I mean I can’t think of anything left on my bucket list, I mean then.


Alejandro Fenn: I guess, for me, it will be to become a grandmother.


David Horsager: There you go all right.


Alejandro Fenn: I want to be a grandma.


David Horsager: I was just talking to a leader, I respect so much he’s incredibly successful guy and he you know he’s talking about my teenagers and some of the challenges i’m like.


David Horsager: I talked about trust and i’m still like I gotta do this thing he said don’t worry, you know what grandkids are just so much more fun.


Alejandro Fenn: And they’re coming.


David Horsager: just talking to him yesterday.


David Horsager: But I love my kids everybody knows that and they’re amazing, but I do look forward to the less responsibility, you know that might bring in the enjoyment of what I hear grandkids are about Alejandro Alejandro what say you.


Alejandro Fenn: A big one for me, is doing a really intense like tracking expedition you know it could be through Chile Bolivia all that area, the mountains of the Andes like I want to go to Antarctica at some point, go to the Amazon rainforest.


Alejandro Fenn: Those kinds of things.


David Horsager: you’ve got time and I will not doubt that you’ll do all three and more so well, this has been a great episode and what a treat to talk to my friends Elizabeth and Alejandro and where can we find out more where’s the best place to find out more about you.


Alejandro Fenn: You could just go to Elizabeth starkey’s.


Alejandro Fenn: dot com and schedule a call with me, whatever you need i’m so happy to help you and you know you can go to any of our business sites as well, global gaming initiative or zuko.


David Horsager: And we’ll put them all in the show notes Kent will take care of that if he hasn’t already but that’ll be fun anywhere else Alejandro.


Alejandro Fenn: You know i’m young, so you can always instagram DM me, my name is exactly my first and last name so.


Alejandro Fenn: Always acceptable.


Alejandro Fenn: I won’t respond.


David Horsager: Exactly me either Alejandro fan SP and and wonderful well we’ve got a whole lot of take aways we talk about them, we got some new ones here don’t let anyone take away your joy.


David Horsager: Maybe read skin in the game or four agreements, but what an inspiring duo, I think, mostly because they’re passionate about changing the world for good and.


David Horsager: I we talked about in our work, a lot because i’m on stage 100 times a year, maybe being the same onstage and offstage.


David Horsager: And I know you and you live it out with family and with friends and i’m grateful to call you a friend so and friends grateful to call your friends and so so so so grateful.


David Horsager: This has been the trusted leader show it has been a treat Thank you Elizabeth Thank you Alejandro until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 23: Dr. Chad Coauette on Why Building A Base Is Critical To Success

In this episode, David sits down with Dr. Chad Coauette, Executive Director/CEO of Sourcewell, to discuss why building a base is critical to your future success.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Episode Sponsored by Sourcewell

Dr. Chad’s Bio:
As Executive Director/CEO at Sourcewell, Chad Coauette wears a variety of hats. In addition to working with a board of 10, Chad interacts at a strategic level with his senior leadership team to develop new programming and services to meet the needs of regional, state, and North American clients. He’s also active in setting overall organizational improvement goals, participating in public relations efforts, recommending changes in policy, and overseeing all Sourcewell operations.

Of all the hats he wears, none is more prominent than the one of green and white – Chad’s alma mater of the University of North Dakota. Go Hawks!

Dr. Chad’s Links:
Website: https://www.sourcewell-mn.gov/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sourcewellgov/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/sourcewell_gov
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sourcewell-gov/
Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-coauette-27aa638/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoVuYDfX1jjepnpwvRTL54A

Key Quotes:
1. “It is truly a win win win in multiple ways. But without that trusting process and organization, none of it happens.”
2. “There isn’t a week and often a day that I don’t learn something dramatic.”
3. “It is about service to your community.”
4. “You can’t fire a cannon out of a canoe.”
5. “Its about building a base underneath you.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
University of North Dakota: https://und.edu/
“The Infinite Game” by Simon Sinek: https://amzn.to/3uluWNR
Apple iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager today i’ve got a special guest he’s the CEO and executive director of source well, welcome to the show Chad, Dr Chad Coauette.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Thank you, David it’s a pleasure to be here.


David Horsager: Well, this has been a longtime friendship with you, with your organization, and so this is a special special treat for us, but for those that don’t know Dr Chad tell us a few things just about you, who you are what what you love.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah well thanks that’s it that’s a big question i’ll keep it very, very brief but.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Farm kid from northwestern Minnesota and grew up on a crop farm with the couple siblings and some uncles and my dad farmed with grew up there learned a lot of great.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: work ethic from that group went to university of North Dakota came out of that great degree from that fantastic university got to give them a plug.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and spent the first 15 years of my career in higher education progressing into various levels of leadership and, eventually, then.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Left higher education and i’ve been at source well for the last eight years as the executive director and CEO but outside of work, and I know you ask some questions around that.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Also, a proud father of two how has been 20 years and just really love spending time with our family outdoors and Hunting, Fishing, and just really enjoying all that Minnesota and central Minnesota where we live has to offer.


David Horsager: Well we’re going to talk about just briefly about leadership, you know source world’s grown by massive leaps and bounds over the last few years, even since you been.


David Horsager: at the helm, but what about you, you know, we find that leaders trusted leaders tend to lead themselves well, what do you have any habits or routines that you do every day to make sure you’re healthy as a leader, you know personally.


yeah.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Well, I tried to read some good news, as I can refresh up we get sucked into those that very, very deep traps of what seems like all the negativity that happens.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Very polarized political environment etc and trying to find it some good news to read on a pretty regular basis, I do enjoy.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Sports and going to watching some favorite teams and reveling in that and being around.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: My kids and their teams and their events as well, so really kind of pulling in some of that positivity intentionally on a regular basis, but I also.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: From a leadership perspective recognize that taking care of yourself and finding some time for you know a little solitude little quiet time but then.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Getting some exercise, and I could do a better job of eating better but try to eat decent my wife would tell you not quite as good as I could but getting a workout a couple times a week and.


David Horsager: what’s your workout what’s your work out what’s your favorite workout.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah it varies I i’ve been called a runner and i’ve never described myself a runner in my entire life, but the last several years it’s it’s putting a couple.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Five k’s in a week just out my own out of patient with Three Mile runs I get a couple of those a week.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: When it’s nicer out in the roads are not icy I like to switch that up periodically with a nice long bike ride and then do some sort of physical.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: lift activity, most of the time now and it’s as i’m in my home office just outside these doors is a little room or a lot of you know just your own weight.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Type stuff versus them a great big weight room, which I do appreciate having access to those facilities and we have that facility at source well so whenever things get back to a little bit more normal I will look forward to sliding back into the weight room periodically as well.


David Horsager: When you’re back you know you’ve got a pretty.


David Horsager: Pretty long commute what are you doing on that commute.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah it’s varied in my almost eight years of being at source, well, I will tell you early on some of my drives back and forth were either radio off just quiet, or just rocking it out do some good.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: At classic music just to kind of wind down for the day i’ve been switching it up a lot lately that i’ve been.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: audible different podcasts lots of learning opportunities as well, so it sometimes it depends on the day.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: What that looks like but typically it’s some some learning, maybe a phone call or two that I need to make on the way that I haven’t talked to someone in a little while it’s a great time to connect.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Not so much in the early morning drive they don’t appreciate that phone call if they’re retired and it’s seven in the morning, but that four or five six o’clock phone call on the way home as a nice way to wind down and connect as well.


David Horsager: For those that don’t know source well let’s jump then we’re going to jump back to personal a little bit, but you know source will, in my mind, you know it’s just an amazing story.


David Horsager: That is really built on trust yeah can you just give us a brief the story it wasn’t n JP became source well but just a brief of what you do and how you do it and the difference that makes.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah thanks for that invitation, so I can give as as David could say I really long story i’ll try to keep it brief and source well is a self funded government organization.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That really exists to help with Community success originally that meant distinctly serving the five counties in and around staples Minnesota where our headquarters is it’s expanded much beyond that.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But we like to think of ourselves as a force multiplier for public agencies so think cities counties municipalities states nonprofits those entities.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: We are able to serve as a public entity and we bring services, alongside them that help them achieve.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Community success for whatever that means for them, and we do in a variety of ways, the largest service that David knows us best for something called cooperative purchasing.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Where we help and have on contract multiple vendors supplier partners that can help put the great.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: goods and services at the fingertips of those entities that sometimes have a hard time as a as a public entity accessing.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and getting access to great products and services at a great price we help that process help streamline that process.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And we do that service on a national North American quite frankly scale and then we also have a technology division which helps K 12.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: districts with similar technology opportunities, whether that’s helping make connections with some math challenges that students are having or if it’s an institution wide organization wide.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: er P system for for finance so that’s a technology side, and then we we do really spec pay some special attention to those five counties in and around the staples.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: they’re really the reason why we came into existence as an organization in the mid 70s, was to really help those five counties around staples.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: do things they otherwise couldn’t do on their own and really create some levels of the efficiencies.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and provide professional development and training that just really lifts up those communities of school districts so cities and counties to achieve more, and really create a unique partnerships.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: So as David said we’ve been around for a long time we’ve been around since the 70s, we had a very entrepreneurial.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Member of our team joined in 1998 long before I started and the MIC hike is his name entrepreneur to give my credit and really Mike.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Put the organization on a course through how we have grown our cooperative purchasing services took about a dozen years really to get that momentum really built.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But it’s it’s continued and grown and as allow the organization to grow from when I started July 1 of 2013 we had about 60 employees and today as we’re looking in March 2021.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: we’re at about 300 staff and have an office in staples Minnesota as well as a location in St Paul and serve again, as I stated really.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: With some of our services across North America, so what was an idea in 1998 to serve differently and and really grow how we help public entities.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: To trust through learning and connecting with the Members were serving how to best fit their needs and do it in a compliant way.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and build incrementally over time that we have now been able to really accelerate that good work to serve even more people but it took.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: It took that entrepreneur in 1998 and a heck of a lot of trust between the organization and the Board and the region as a whole to get where we’re at today just very, very proud of that work.


David Horsager: I am too, and you know I that’s very close to where I grew up in one of the poorest counties in Minnesota.


David Horsager: And, as you know, and not only there’s there’s still the effect on Central Minnesota in such a positive way, but I remember when I started working with source well and JP at that time.


David Horsager: You know, less than a half billion touch now I think $5 billion worth of help in cooperative purchasing just that business unit right.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah yeah we were as a volume of cooperative purchasing not necessarily revenue that comes to the organization just for clarity, but for the volume that goes to our cooperative purchasing.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Service when I started in July 1 of 2013 we the year closing prior to that was just a little less than $800 million as that total volume last year we were just shy of 5 billion and.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Really really excited for that growth that’s taken a tremendous amount of internal systems and built to get there and it’s, it is even though one person was the genesis to bring that idea together, it is taken so much of a team collaborative to build out that great set of solutions.


David Horsager: What I love about this is there’s a win, win, win right at least a win, win, win, win, win because there’s a win for the Community in a place where you’re educating and kind of a.


David Horsager: Poor part of Minnesota in many ways, so it’s helping there but it’s also helping companies in.


David Horsager: REACH, schools and cities and a fair way it’s also really helping schools and I don’t know if you can name some of them, but you’re helping big cities around the just just to name a few what are some some some cities and some places around the country you know.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Well State of New York as a whole in New York City we do a tremendous amount of work in the State of New York and do.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and very proud of the partnerships, we continue to grow and the contracts that we have for some of the vendors products and services that are accessed by State entities and.


David Horsager: Those name of you would let us take snow removal or mowing for these i’m gonna get in trouble if I start naming all right let’s go.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: To the big.


David Horsager: The biggest thing what you’re able to do is help.


David Horsager: them be able to buy what they need the best quality specific.


David Horsager: Item for them that they could not have got alone, especially at the price so you’re.


David Horsager: you’re winning here you’re taking you know we talked about trust we talked about the challenge of of contracts and agreements and all these kind of things we have to deal with, and how it slows things down and.


David Horsager: And, and how, when when we increase trust because of who we work with or how we do it, or the boat the platform, the relationships, all these kind of things we can.


David Horsager: We can you know, speed up trust we can take costs down, and this is just a I think source will at a at the Court does such a great job increasing trust in a way that lowers costs in many ways for all involved, so I think.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That you know your your example of the win, win, win is is is actually a way that I described the relationship with our cooperative purchasing as well, if I can just to build on your your comment, in the end.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: The user the person who’s going to use that contract to buy snow removal equipment or a photo copiers or help with their construction processes.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: There streamlining how they do that because they’re trusting our organization that we’ve done that process on their behalf.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And we set it all up on the front end to make it easier faster simpler and less costly for them so that so they get a win.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: The vendor or supplier partner who’s supplying the photocopiers that the snow removal or the construction.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: They are getting access to in a connection with someone who sometimes they have a hard time making that linkage with just on how public entities have to buy things.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And then the third win back to our organization where there’s an administrative fee for helping that make that work possible comes back to the Organization for one to keep the lights on.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Second, to do some additional organizational growth and the third part of that win back to our organization really falls right back into the region as you described David where you grew up.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: that the five counties immediately surrounding staples Minnesota I like to say, often fall in the wrong top 10 list.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: There in the top 10 poorest or most economically disadvantaged counties in the state, and if that revenue stream can come back into our organization and we can reinvest it.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: back into providing services for those five counties it’s a when it says, because of the value added service we’re providing.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: across North America it’s like we’re recruiting that administrative fee to come back in and really multiply itself and make a difference, back in the region, so it is truly a win, win, win in multiple ways, but without trusting process and organization, none of it happens.


David Horsager: And when I talk about my my childhood i’m so grateful for the school I grew up in, and it is.


David Horsager: amazing today, partly because of your input and and that kind of thing but ferndale Minnesota that’s a ferndale schools where I went I grew up eight miles from burned down little.


David Horsager: Little town I not a town that closest town was 500 person ferndale I grew up eight miles from there, and a little little farm my 91 year old parents still still live there, but the reason it’s bore is one you know we didn’t have the best soil in the state, but we try.


David Horsager: To farm and number two no legs everywhere else in the state has an enormous lakes, where all the money is and we didn’t but.


David Horsager: Which Minnesota is known for the lakes and we had one of the counties with the least in the state.


David Horsager: So you’re trying to farm on some of the tougher soil to farm on and you don’t have the the all the people coming up with a big money on the lakes, but we I tell you the school system there is.


David Horsager: phenomenal I believe and partly you know the the partnership of source was helped a lot of those schools be some of the best in class and i’m grateful for that.


David Horsager: let’s just take your leadership role, you know you’re leading in essence a government agency you’re dealing with corporate folks you’re dealing with.


David Horsager: Is such a unique environment to lead your you’ve led a whole lot of growth in number of people as as the CEO to now tell us you know what are some of the things you learn from when you started, you know jumped in the home, was it 12 years ago.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Oh no, it was in 2013 so.


David Horsager: eight.


David Horsager: Years ago that’s right, eight years ago, tell us what, what do you wish, you would have known then that you know now.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Oh wow man that’s a great question you know I I will tell you honestly there isn’t for sure, not a debt we’re not a week.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But oftentimes a day that I don’t learn something dramatic and I mean not like you know something slops in Milan said the head dramatic, but something that is really.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: From the team we’ve brought on from the from the great group to interact with something that doesn’t somehow influence how we continue to be a learning organization and do something slightly different to to improve and or you know strategically get better and.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: I think one of the things.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That I had to learn early on, and it was a part of my transition as as a.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: leader in higher education into the work that i’m in now and then being in the leadership seat, I had to start to figure out how to release some of those things that I love to do.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: There are positions at the organization that we were rapidly bringing on and growing moving from a 60 person organization to now 300.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And there are many of those that I would love to delve deep into and like I can own this I i’m probably the best person in a 10 county area to do this work.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But it wasn’t my work to do my work, then it was set to sit back and set up the conditions for success for the person who was going to enter that.


David Horsager: was really quick i’m going to cut you off because what, what are the conditions for success.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: What does that look like yeah so we had to have a trusting organization, we had to have a trusting relationship we had to have some organizational clarity of.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: What were they going to do what are they going to be responsible for what was theirs to really own and grow.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Many of the new things we are bringing on early on, nobody had done them before so when someone is entering that role they had to be able to be the decision maker.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: From the very beginning, maybe they weren’t the person who came up with the idea, but if they were moving into a leadership role over to that space.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And to determine what’s our priority, how are we going to lead our strategy, how are we going to roll this out and if I was in their business every single day.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: It was going to inhibit their work, so we had to find people who are highly skilled, who were Doers could build teams could build leaders and start to shape out the organization, as we saw it.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And where we’re going, and then we had to them build support I report into an eight Member board of directors, six of them are elected school board members who then get.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: elected from other school board members to serve on our board and to others are other elected officials typically county Commissioners or mayors and there are elected by their peers to serve on the board, so I made my sons.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: who come from really eclectic backgrounds and their common denominator, between those eight is service you don’t serve on a school board or a.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: township board or.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: county, Commissioner, because you want the glory it’s, it is about service to your Community so that is united.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Like mindedness about them, but the professional backgrounds are wildly different their visions for their own entities that they represent are wildly different and we had to then part of the role that I had to play was was paint where the organization was going.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: to garner support and buy in from the board members and how we were going to do that and then ultimately build that team to to execute it and then set up those conditions for success so it’s been a lot of learning along the way, believe me.


David Horsager: If you’re going to take one role, I mean you had to do a lot of hiring quickly yeah what one just one takeaway for hire hire someone you can trust.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah wow I tell you what we’ve gotten better over that.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: We have a I think is very strong hiring process, you know it is, it is a process we’re public agencies, so we do have to follow a process it’s part of how we.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: do that work, but I think, as our human resources team has again we’re learning organization, we continue to learn what works what doesn’t work.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But I think one of the things that was very important to us was to get a cross section of TEAM members to be part of those interviews, so if you’re interviewing for one department.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: You might the interview committee has a whole might have been made, primarily up of that department.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But you’re pulling some third parties from other parts of the Organization for one to get a bit of buy in on who is joining the team.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: But just different eyes and ears on what they saw while they were in that meeting and does this person, whoever he or she is in the hot seat and the interview candidate see.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: look like they’re a culture fit not not not a Cone but if someone who would complement where we’re trying to go and bring a great skill set, now that the technical component.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That was probably left to the people most likely in their department, but the character check did really come from other partners as well.


David Horsager: I know that one of the things you’ve tried to you know even get better at is kind of diversity inclusion equity challenges in the midst of.


David Horsager: You know you have a certain maybe smaller hiring pool up in the area up in northern Minnesota and then you but you’ve you know you’ve got the St Paul team you open new offices, how are you intentionally increasing this idea of of healthy inclusion equity.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah well I tell you that, as we continue to work for it and we are as i’ve shared with David and another conversation we are very actively.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Doing equity inclusion and diversity training across our organization definitely.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: was a kick in the pants to do some to do more let’s just say that, with the Minnesota George floyd the death for last year.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And being in our own backyard really meant something for us to say we need to be part of the solution so as one of the things we’re doing is some.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: considerable amount of internal training again not short term versus long term long vision on this, but the pandemic actually and how we have become better at telecommuting.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: will actually open up for us the pools of who we’re going to be looking to hire and not necessarily only advertise what you get to live in the greater staples Minnesota area which I think is beautiful.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: I love it I love the area, you know you can commute within you know 3040 miles of it live on the lake and live near lakes and be there.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Not everybody has that same desire to live in Minnesota in the wintertime so can we attract people who we might not otherwise have attracted to those positions.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: who live in various States different climates all across the US in the short answer that is yes.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Now the longer answer is, you know the, how do we do that, how do we have our best practices in place and some of those are coming together for us right now, but the pandemic.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And how we’ve had to pivot to do more telework is opening up some of those doorways that otherwise just based on geography and weren’t always is readily available.


David Horsager: How are you talked a lot about being a learning organization yet what’s what’s one way you’re developing your people consistently.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah one thing that I am super proud of and it’s a board commitment is is for all staff, we have a tuition reimbursement.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: i’ll say it it’s up to $5,000 per year per employee so that can be applied to either the employee themselves.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Or to one of their family members so to qualify as one of those it’s somebody who’s they still qualify for their health insurance so it’s a student I think up to age 25 or 26 and or a spouse.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: So it’s up to $5,000 a year to achieve degrees and certifications so we have staff members who are.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Achieving associate’s degrees bachelor’s degrees master’s degrees one who’s pursuing more than one I think right now we’re pursuing a PhD but then.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: In innumerable numbers of either spouses and our children in college age that are pursuing their next interests so.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That that is been something that i’m really proud that the board, made a commitment to I think about seven years ago and the use of that continues to grow and we’re just really it sets a tone.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: within families and we want our team Members, our teammates to have their.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Families as a whole, be as educated, as they want to be, and as educated, as they can be.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And really create and make an impact in the communities that we serve so whether they stay in ferndale Minnesota or they land out in Las Vegas, I hope, whatever that education is that they get.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: The impact that they’ve received from those tuition dollars coming from source well they get to help make an impact in a community and their family moving forward so it’s it’s creating that multiplier effect.


David Horsager: I bet that creates I mean it’s such a great that many people get a few thousand dollars or some at least organizations to themselves to get better you know the worker, but I mean that you extend that to.


David Horsager: Two spouses and kids and all that kind of stuff I just can’t believe that that wouldn’t keep in an immense amount of loyalty, you know and just wow they actually took care of our that kid in college or whatever so.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: We have great retention and we’re proud of that, the great hires and make and when people join our team and the folks that stay on the team.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: as well.


David Horsager: Well, I you know it’s about time for the lightning round, so you got to get ready for quick answers here my friend.


David Horsager: Sure, but which you know for a PhD like you well let’s see our doctor add you know I I before that I want to just say a huge, thank you, you know we only asked for.


David Horsager: sponsors by invitation and behalf, they have to be people we trust we work with anybody around the world will work on corruption issues and pro sports teams and whatever, but when we have people sponsor our trust work.


David Horsager: And so I just want to say a publicly a huge, thank you for sponsoring the trusted leader.


David Horsager: Movement the trusted leader book and and all that we’re trying to do, we have just loved partnering with you, seeing how you live it out on as we say onstage and offstage not just publicly but privately.


David Horsager: And i’m just grateful to have become friends with many of your team, and you and watch from Mike hike to others.


David Horsager: You know all the transitions and growth that’s happened, and he was here for a time for such as time then and now there’s people for the next.


David Horsager: version of source well and the impact it’s happening across all the States and North America, Canada, I know some of the great work much of it that’s happening so I want to say just to you publicly and on the podcast Thank you and so.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: on behalf of the organization you’re welcome and we’re pleased.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: To do that yeah.


David Horsager: So all right quick fire lightning round, here we go with Dr Chad, a favorite book or resource right now.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah I read it’s probably the last two months, maybe three months, Simon cynics infinite game.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: very, very impactful work love it it’s about not necessarily like the one of his quotes really it’s not about playing to win.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Today it’s about staying in the game, as long as possible and for an organization like ours it’s a service based organization staying in the game, making an impact for as long as you possibly can, is success so it’s been a meaningful book.


David Horsager: mm hmm great one a favorite tech gadget or APP right now.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Just in general, like my phone my.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: phone just in general, just the power that is contained in that for multiple Apps multiple reasons, the ability to stay connected to my kids, it is a it’s I can name lots of hunting gadgets but nobody else cares about that.


David Horsager: right there you go.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That phone works.


David Horsager: How about this a best just a best piece of advice or quote that runs through your mind that you think about maybe you make decisions by.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah there’s there’s a couple there’s a quote, that I get a couple kicks out of when I say it, but I I often tell our team is that you can’t fire Canada.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Or you can at least do it once right, you know one time, well then you’re not sustainable, so the idea that you can’t fire, a kind of a canoe.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And I get some chuckles out of that, as I say, when they say, which I will put you on the canoe will start one time.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: That the reality of it is, is that it’s about building a base underneath you so when you have repeatable processes you don’t just pull something off once.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: How do you really as a team and as an organization continue to grow from that and building that base systems processes people culture that organization.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Systems entrepreneurship, how do you innovate and not just win once, how do you do it over and over and over and build that base of success is really important, so that that’s something that that does resonate with me a lot.


David Horsager: Totally True, the foundation if you can’t if you don’t build the Foundation in our case, we say, if you don’t build that foundation and trust everything crumbles so absolutely true one thing left for Chad Colette 211 maybe it’s a bucket list or just some something you hope for.

223
00:33:45.150 –> 00:33:46.620
Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Oh, I would.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: wow.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: I would love to a bucket list love to go to New Zealand someday just as a bucket list trip spend some time there I do like to hunt I like to hunt and fish I would love it to be a hunting trip and New Zealand, but just to add to that beautiful climate that I see so much about.


David Horsager: And what what was the picture thought that, like New Zealand, of all the place in the world, you just thought boy you pulled that out to do, I mean I beautiful place, I know, one of my greatest regrets last time I didn’t go to.


David Horsager: Australia, but not New Zealand so it’s it’s it’s a special place what what drew you to specifically New Zealand.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: An image, I have in my head is I had met a woman from Christchurch New Zealand, when I worked at the College system, she.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: was on their summer break, was here there exactly six months basically weather wise flipped over on their summer break, came to visit Alexandria Minnesota and.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: She painted this beautiful image, where she lived where you could decide today, am I going to go to the beach or am I going to go skiing.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: and actually legitimately said, we can go see in the morning and from the ski hill where i’m going down in the morning, I can see the beach down below that i’m gonna be on in the afternoon.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: When I could pull it all off in one day and I said.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: You know what just based off of that description i’m gonna make that happen.


David Horsager: make it happen let’s do it alright well, this has been fantastic there’s a whole lot we can gather from this time together, and of course you can look that source will tell us about just working people find the most about source well.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: yeah you can look at our website go go look for source well, you can scroll through who we are, what we’re all about, and if you want to learn more.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: You can connect with me on linkedin Chad coed at linkedin pitch me a question i’ll try to guide you to her we either I can answer it or make sure that we have somebody who can get you the answer.


David Horsager: And we’ll put the spelling for both of those exactly in the show notes trusted leader show.com so everybody can see the show notes and we’ll also put the top takeaways as we see it from this show with Dr Chad quiet.


David Horsager: Before we close up Dr Chad, we got to go to the final question, this is the one we ask everyone who is a leader you trust and why.


yeah.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Great great question flashes back to my first professional supervisor or name is sherry also Dr sherry.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: sherry is currently college President in phoenix South mountain Community college great friend, in fact, I was just on the phone with her two weeks ago.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: She was the one who hired me back in first professional job in 1998 and saw something in a young mid 20 something kids that I probably didn’t see in myself gave me opportunity to grow followed her to another opportunity.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Beyond that first opportunity work together and really ended up leading a college through a very, very challenging time and.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Trust her a lot, and one of the things that I said when a the very first one of the very first conversations I had was sharing this give me to my point so I won’t ramble a longer than this.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: David is that we committed to when we started to work in this very challenging situation I said sherry.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: With all the things that are in front of us there’s not a way that the two of us are going to are going to conquer this list of 1000 things we need to do.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: We can pick a few we’re going to make a difference in the time that we’re here and I said, if we can commit to these three things we’re going to communicate.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: we’re going to follow through and we’re going to be transparent, with each other and with the team we locked into those three buckets communicate file through transparency.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And we succeeded, we hung our hats on those and we live that out in the time with that organization they’re both interim roles as we were setting the College up for its next success.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: And because of my first interactions with sherry that time teaming with her, I have an ultra high.


Chad Coauette – Sourcewell: Just trust level in great partnership doing things for the right reasons, all the time onstage and offstage and I really treasure my time with her and as a trusted colleague and a friend rely on her on my phone or friend periodically so shout out to share meals.


David Horsager: that’s that’s a good example, well, we need those we need mentors we need colleagues, we need accountability partners, and we certainly need examples, and I think this is where we try to focus.


David Horsager: Not a lot on toxic leadership lots of studies and research does that all the things that are going wrong, we like to focus on trusted leaders that we can exemplify or or pull something from like the sherry’s and the doctor chad’s of the world, so.


David Horsager: Thank you for this Thank you against for Thank you again for just being an example of trust, thank you to source well and all you do for the Community in.


David Horsager: North central Minnesota but also just the world and for companies and i’m looking forward to joining you again.


David Horsager: This summer and that’s going to be fun at your annual event or a couple events coming up with your leadership team get the great opportunity to speak at so.


David Horsager: Remember, you can find everything we’ve talked about today at trusted leader show.com and you can find the show notes find out where to find source well and Dr Chad Thank you everyone for joining us until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 22: Susan Sly on The 5 Ways To LOCK In A New Habit

In this episode, David sits down with Susan Sly, Tech Investor, Best-selling Author, Keynote Speaker, Trainer and Entrepreneur, to discuss the 5 steps we can all use to LOCK in a new habit.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Susan’s Bio:
Susan Sly is a tech investor, best-selling author, keynote speaker, trainer and entrepreneur. She has appeared on CNN, CNBC, Fox, Lifetime Television, The CBN, The Morning Show in Australia and been quoted in MarketWatch, Yahoo Finance, Forbes, and more. Susan is the author of 7 books. Her book project with NY Times Best Selling Author, Jack Canfield, made six Amazon Best Selling lists. Susan has built channel sales teams that have produced over $1.7 billion in sales.

She is currently the Co-CEO, and cofounder, of Radius AI – a Silicon Valley and Phoenix based AI company. Susan is also currently studying at MIT with a focus in artificial intelligence and machine learning.

Susan has completed the Boston Marathon 6X and placed Top 10 in the Pro Division of the Ironman Triathlon in Malaysia. Susan is passionate about philanthropy and has dedicated a significant amount of time and money working to liberate girls from trafficking and invest in education to support women and girls who have survived trauma and abuse both domestically and overseas.

Susan is the mother of five children and resides with her husband in Scottsdale, Arizona. Find out more about Susan at www.susansly.com

Susan truly believes we can have it all.

Susan’s Links:
Website: https://susansly.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SusanSlyLive/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Susan_Sly
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP5Ir8CxCPX4CFVgU3nsIng
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susansly/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susansly/?hl=en

Key Quotes:
1. “You only see the glory, you don’t know the story.”
2. “We can choose to give pain a purpose in our lives or not.”
3. “Don’t focus on what you’re going through, focus on what you are going to.”
4. “A habit takes as long as it takes.”
5. “I will out habit anyone.”
6. “Success leaves clues.”
7. “The same part of our brain that becomes addicted to something negative, is also the same part that becomes addicted to something positive.”
8. “I became my own experiment.”
9. “You have to take care of yourself now.”
10. “Most people don’t know how bad they feel until they start feeling good.”
11. “What is the gap in your life?”
12. “Good agreements prevent disagreements.” – Harvey Mackay
13. “Value your time.”
14. “You don’t value your time at what you’re earning now. You value your time at what you want it to be.”
15. “We teach the world how to treat us.”
16. “Money doesn’t change who you are, it only amplifies what is already there.” – Will Smith

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“7 Strategies for Wealth & Happiness” by Jim Rohn: https://amzn.to/3maGQXK
“Atomic Habits” by James Clear: https://amzn.to/3uoIWXh
“The Science of Getting Rich” by Wallace D. Wattles: https://amzn.to/3rLlYb6
“Getting a Job is a Job” by Harvey Mackay: https://amzn.to/3m9VdvE

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David horse auger. I have a very special guest today. She’s a seven Times bestselling author. She is a serial entrepreneur, we’re going to touch on her newest company here today for a little bit. She is an amazing woman leader mother.


David Horsager: Wife and friend, welcome to the show. Susan sly


Susan Sly: Well, thanks, David, for having me. It’s so great to be here and I just want to acknowledge you for everything you’re doing in the world because, you know, I’ve been obviously following what you’ve been up to, and really creating powerful and profound change. So anyway, thanks for having me.


David Horsager: I, I, your


David Horsager: Friend that I trust and a leader and we’ve been on stage together. We’ve been in leadership group groups together around the country around the world. And I’m just grateful. There’s some fun things to know about you. I think your


David Horsager: You know your story, but let’s let’s talk about I’ve you’ve you’ve, you’ve been in the top 10 of an Iron Man You’ve been six time


David Horsager: On the in the Boston Marathon, and I know when we went to one leadership event. We were the only ones in the gym that morning at 530 in the morning and I thought she’s got something


David Horsager: You know she’s doing some of the right things offstage and onstage. So give us a bit of background. Just so everybody there’s maybe a few people that don’t know, Susan sly


Susan Sly: Sure that the the thing I want to say if someone’s watching or listening is we all have life events.


Susan Sly: And there’s a an old saying that goes like this, you will only see the glory. You don’t know the story, so you can hear.


Susan Sly: You know, CNN CNBC six are six Boston marathons. You can hear. She’s built three award winning sales teams totally 1.7 billion in sales, and you can hear all of those things. But behind that.


Susan Sly: Comes down to three things. Number one is faith. Number two is decisions and number three are habits. So we, we all have those critical moments and we can choose to give pain.


Susan Sly: A purpose in our lives or not. And so, back in 2000 prior to that, I was a media celebrity in Canada.


Susan Sly: I was running a business. I had 52 staff members. I was teaching nutrition at the college level. I was a pro athlete. I was a mom.


Susan Sly: And I really bought into the delusion David that in order to have it all I had to do it all.


Susan Sly: And so I worked seven days a week. That’s how I was raised and


Susan Sly: Now, you know, especially if someone’s in Gen Z. They’d be like, Yeah, I grind and I hustle. I was like the odd grinder Hustler back in 1995 I had the first online business. I was


Susan Sly: Ever in calls themselves a coach. Now, I was the first online health and wellness coach in the 90s when the internet was just first starting for everyday folks.


Susan Sly: And so there I was sort of, you know, really ascending in my career, but I knew that something was not right and I went to my doctor, I had a series of tests and on January 13 of 2000


Susan Sly: I was diagnosed with progressive MS and the doctor said, the case is so bad, you’ll be in a wheelchair and 10 years and dead in 20


Susan Sly: And three days later, my marriage fell apart 16 weeks later I lost my business. I really buried my head in the sand and your, your whole life’s work is around trust.


Susan Sly: I was trusting the people around me to handle finances to do things. But when you don’t trust yourself and you don’t fully understand what trust means it’s a false sense of trust.


Susan Sly: And so there I was on Good Friday I walk into the health club that I own. There’s a padlock on the door. We’ve been shut down. I ended up homeless as a single mom.


Susan Sly: And I got humble and I literally got on my knees and I prayed to God. I said, Listen, if you’ll show me the way I’ll do the work.


Susan Sly: And it didn’t happen overnight. I didn’t become a millionaire overnight. It took a few years. I didn’t


Susan Sly: Suddenly, you know, get healthy overnight that took time and it’s it’s a work in progress, as you know, and so I’m no stranger to adversity, but my message for everyone watching and listening is this


Susan Sly: Don’t focus on what you’re going through. Focus on what you are going to. Because the moment you, as I said, Have faith you decide, and you develop the habits. You can change your life. And if you want change your world, you gotta change you first.


David Horsager: I love it. So let’s jump into that, you know, you talked about habits. There we might go backwards to some decisions, but


David Horsager: What are habits, you know, trusted leader. We talked about habits, all the time. Little things done consistently make the biggest difference. But what what are some habits. What routines. Do you have that help you be the trusted successful leader you are today.


Susan Sly: Well, David. Like you, I was went a different way than I am now. And so the one of the biggest ways we can shift our habits. I know you talked about this as modeling success.


Susan Sly: And I remember, you and I, having a conversation. Many years ago, and you were talking about how you lost weight and you went in.


Susan Sly: Instead of getting counseled by people who weren’t the way you want it to be. You went asked a bunch of people what they did and and you model their habits and shifting your body


Susan Sly: So I was the heaviest kid in my grade in a small town. And so I was teased. I was bullied. I was chased home i was i was


Susan Sly: You know, if you can’t see me. So I’m very all of skinned I mixed race. So I was teased for the color of my skin. I was, you know, bullied for my way it and so on.


Susan Sly: And so one day I made a decision I was watching the Olympics and I saw the the runners. Right. And I said,


Susan Sly: Okay if runners look like that. And I want to look like that. I have to learn to run. So I was 11 years old I got up at five in the morning and I went out the door to run and it was awful. I went 100 yards and I’m like, gasping for breath.


Susan Sly: But the next day I did it again and I went 150 yards and I went 200 yards. And the reason I share this


Susan Sly: Is because that is how I’ve developed all the habits in my life. So I wake up very early in the morning. It’s a habit that I am in I


Susan Sly: Detox my body I it’s a habit I have I, you know, drink close to a gallon of water a day. It’s the habit that I’m in. And if if everyone thinks about this that if we really it doesn’t take 21 days to build a habit.


Susan Sly: I’ve seen smokers who’ve tried to quit and and they’ve gone without cigarettes for six months, then they are triggered or someone who’s an alcoholic or whatever.


Susan Sly: It takes if you’re taking notes a habit takes as long as it takes.


Susan Sly: I’ve seen people I know you have to David.


Susan Sly: Who they have a traumatic life forget event and they never pick up a drink again or they never pick up a cigarette. Again, or whatever the case is. And then we see people who have a traumatic life event they keep on doing the same stuff.


Susan Sly: That got them to the cancer or got them to the bankruptcy or the divorce or whatever it is. So those the habits that I have must also align with the woman that I want to be.


Susan Sly: And so I set the bar very high for myself even my employees. I always say to them, I don’t expect you to keep up with me but I expect you to be 85 to 90% as good as I am.


Susan Sly: Because I will, I would have it, anyone if I want to learn something. I will. I would have it, someone who has way more experience than I do, because that’s what life is about, in my opinion, we keep learning and learning and learning until it’s our last breath and we go, Man, that was a rush.


David Horsager: So howdy so


David Horsager: Let’s get into this, even a little bit further, as long as we’re here how


David Horsager: First of all, routine. Any other routines, just this is can be interesting to people like what’s your you get up at what whatever time. And then what do you, what is the first thing. What kind of regular routines. The Susan sly do


Susan Sly: Sure, yeah. So Jim, Rome who, you know, amazing business philosopher. He was Tony Robbins mentor.


Susan Sly: I had the privilege of sharing the stage with him live the last time he spoke live in Dallas, Texas. I was many years ago. So I’m aging myself. I’m almost 50 if you can see me. But anyway, so Jimmy’s to say never.


Susan Sly: And you’re never start your day before you end your day never start your month before you end your month never start your year before you enter here and I said you know what, hey,


Susan Sly: I get success leaves clues develop the habit. So I got in the habit of writing out my day in advance so I use a online calendar. I use a paper Planner. And I literally will write out my day in advance. And if there’s something that’s not in alignment with my goals, it goes


David Horsager: So what do you do that when you do it by the way.


Susan Sly: At night.


David Horsager: The night before.


Susan Sly: Yet, the last thing I do when I close down my office. It’s the very last thing.


Susan Sly: I also write, make sure I write at least 10 items of gratitude every single day because


Susan Sly: To him or her, who is given, much is given, and essentially what that means is, the more we appreciate what we have, even the small things. And I think if coven taught us anything, it’s to do that right and so


Susan Sly: That’s the first thing I do that I wake up somewhere between four and five in the morning depends on the day. I, I pray I meditate.


Susan Sly: I heard the best thing last year, which is if you want something in your own life. Pray that same for someone else.


Susan Sly: So if you want prosperity you pray it over someone else if you want better health. And so I it’s got my list is so long, David, that it’s actually like an hour and then


Susan Sly: I go in my office. And that’s what I do my creative work I Clara any overnight emails slack messages like all of you, I, I’m in three slack channels and counting


Susan Sly: Text messages and all of that stuff, then I get a workout in. I move my body at least 90 minutes every day. Sometimes it’s peloton hot yoga running whatever it is getting kids ready for school. We have five kids four of them are at home right now. Yeah, we were talking


Susan Sly: And and then you know it’s getting suit suit up ready for my day my assistant does not book any meetings before 10 in the morning. I just won’t do it.


Susan Sly: Unless it’s, you know, there’s something that I must do. I’m a CEO of a company. So sometimes that happens, we work in different countries and time zones.


Susan Sly: And then I don’t let her book meetings. After three. That is my choice if I want to do a meeting between three and five. That’s my time to close things down, get my creative work done and so on. So that’s, that’s how I run my day.


David Horsager: I love it. That’s amazing. So let’s take, let’s go back to habits one step, you know, how do you build a new one. Like if you’re if you’re starting


David Horsager: With a new habit like you, like, Well, I’m gonna do this, I’m going to start running every day, but then they get to tomorrow and it doesn’t become a habit, as you know,


David Horsager: Most people wouldn’t do what you did. They gassed after honey hundred yards and they went back to bed. The next day. So breaking through and building a new habit. Any tips.


Susan Sly: Sure. That’s an amazing question. It’s it really starts with desire. And here are my tips for locking


Susan Sly: A you know really locking down that desired number one is ask yourself the question, precisely what is the habit define it clearly I want to run for 30 minutes a day not. I want to start running


Susan Sly: You know, I’ll chase you down the street, you’ll start running but it might not become a habit, like, be very clear. Number two is what is the benefit to you of developing this happen.


Susan Sly: And and list as many as you can. And then number three is what is the detriment. If you don’t develop the habit.


Susan Sly: And then number four is, Who in your life is suffering because you don’t have this habit.


Susan Sly: And then the fifth thing is


Susan Sly: What will this happen mean to five or 10 years down the road because it’s the compound effect like Darren Hardy talks about. So I’ll give you an example.


Susan Sly: So if viewers can see me I’ve got in my hand. It’s a glass men, the US a glass bottle. It’s empty of gloopy green stuff.


Susan Sly: So last year I decided, David. I’m like, You know what, I need to have more fresh fruits and vegetables, the Framingham study is the longest study done on cardiovascular health. But as an ancillary finding


Susan Sly: They found that if you consume five to seven servings of fresh fruits and vegetables a day, it reduces your risk of cancer. All kinds by 70%


Susan Sly: So I was going through my day eating, you know, eating having protein shakes and, you know,


Susan Sly: raw almonds and all that good stuff. But I realized I’m like oh my gosh, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. So I decided what I was going to do on Sunday is I was going to take


Susan Sly: You know, greens, I was going to take organic celery, Lemon juice in the VitaMix. I was going to mix this all up and I was going to


Susan Sly: Fill. Five Jars one for every day of the week and


Susan Sly: I was going to grab them and and that’s what I did. Now, it was really inconvenient because I had to like dedicate that time on Sunday to making this glue be green drink.


Susan Sly: And then the second thing was I had to figure out a way to make this a habit that it was so convenient that I had no excuse. Like even running out of my house to my office I could just grab it out of the fridge and I could go


Susan Sly: So that was a habit I developed last year and now it’s so ingrained in me because I’m going the detriment is the benefit is


Susan Sly: I reduce my risk of cancer and then the detriment is if I don’t do this, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe I could get cancer. Right. And you think about all the people in my life that benefit, that’s just an example.


David Horsager: I love it. Great, great five step process.


David Horsager: You know, I’ve got a Kent.


David Horsager: smiling at me. And by the way, Kent in studio here. Give a little wave is and maybe have a habit or I mean, maybe you have a question, but before that I’ll you know Kent is a healthy eater. He has a system of how he eats


David Horsager: I, as you know, was transformed and so I every morning they joke about me right here that I have a bag of salary I I generally eat a bag of salary every morning by noon.


David Horsager: It’s just habit, I just, I have the biggest seller. That means if I do that, I won’t do other things you talk about some of the books. I don’t know if as atomic habit or the other one I read. But basically, these Keystone habits.


David Horsager: Right, that that make other things go if I do that, then I don’t do all these other things. If I don’t do that so hungry, whatever, you know, then I won’t do other things. So


David Horsager: That’s that’s fun that you that’s a great process for or the new thing because we’ve got a couple new staff this week that hadn’t seen me just eat a green pepper, just like an apple, which is very common for me.


David Horsager: These days, but I love it. I think I would enjoy drinking what you have. They’re a little more than just eating raw salary. Some people can handle that. But it’s an easy way for me. I had


David Horsager: One thing I think about habits with what you said is, you’ve got to do what you will do. Right, so it’s not


David Horsager: what someone else would when people said to me, well, you just eat less, exercise more. Well, I’m not going to start running marathons, like my wife or like you but I found a way to do exercise that I will do. Right.


David Horsager: I’m not gonna never


David Horsager: eat ice cream. Again, but I can do this. Like, I’m not going to do all of this, but that one thing that you know I’m gonna, you know, so it’s it’s kind of like


David Horsager: Do creating what you will do you will go run 100 yards or whatever it is, at first, and now you run for days. I think so.


David Horsager: Go ahead. All right, I’m gonna I’m gonna shoot it to Kent Kent, what’s it. What’s a question for Susan slide.


David Horsager: So I was wondering that you’re talking about how how to really build


David Horsager: Good habits. Do you have any like insight on maybe someone has a habit. They’re trying to get rid of. They’re trying to stop. What are some like points. Some things that they can do in order to be able to get past that and be able to start building actually better, healthier habits.


Susan Sly: Can’t. That’s a great question. And, and the reason I I was eating a lot of celery, Dave, but it’s a teeth thing. And I was like, I, I have to can, to your point.


Susan Sly: The more you know in in, you know, in the business world, we talked about reducing friction in any sort of sap standard standard operating procedure so


Susan Sly: I look at my life like an experiment. So I’m like, How much friction can I reduce. So if I put the celery in the water in the VitaMix.


Susan Sly: Then I don’t have to deal with the teeth thing and I can just drink this thing. And guess what my digestive system loves it, because it’s already you know emulsified right so going to, I know there’s going to be the episode. Everyone’s like, that’s the celery episode.


David Horsager: We could have gone so many different directions. I have so many good we could take five episodes but


David Horsager: Let’s go with this. For now, we’ll get to some


Susan Sly: Soon, sir. So, what, what if we’re in the habit Ken’s question is that, and we know the habits not healthy. So sometimes what happens just taking a step back is


Susan Sly: We’ve developed a habit and it’s it’s served us in a way that no longer serves us because we’ve grown right


Susan Sly: And so we or we’ve gotten into a habit that we knew was toxic from the outset, but we told ourselves that we could control it. And this is where


Susan Sly: Alcoholism comes from and drug addiction or porn addiction or Netflix addiction or even coming out of this political cycle. There were a lot of people that became addicted to fear.


Susan Sly: But here’s the interesting thing in the brain, the same part of our brain that becomes addicted to something negative.


Susan Sly: Is also the same part that becomes addicted to something positive. So I’m going to go down a little rabbit hole for everyone. I’ll do it quickly. So there are four key hormones.


Susan Sly: That are the hormones of fulfillment and they’re the dose hormones dopa mean oxytocin serotonin and endorphins.


Susan Sly: dopa mean is that positive reinforcement. So how, if we go on Instagram and we like something that gives us a little dopamine hit


Susan Sly: So the same doping mean hit comes from checking something off our list and oxytocin is that hormone of connection serotonin is that that beautiful


Susan Sly: You know, feel good, kind of, you know, you know, just joy that we get and endorphins come from a challenge or a thrill right


Susan Sly: So if we understand how and I’ve done so many talks on this, we understand how these hormones reinforce our behavior. We can create any habit and we can get rid of any habit.


Susan Sly: And so how that happens is this. Firstly, we have to give ourselves an easy low friction way to check something off a box. And so that’s why social media is so addicting because it’s like, like, like right and Sarah tone is when


Susan Sly: dopa mean is when I like what Dave has and serotonin is when Dave likes what I have right so that’s how we get that. So what we do is we start our habit like this, we might write out a list and it says I easily run 10 minutes


Susan Sly: One day I easily run 10 minutes. Two days I usually run 10 mins three days. And so what we have, what we do is we begin to check off these easy goals and it gives us the dopey mean hit. There was a study done in Texas.


Susan Sly: And on saving money and the people who set small micro goals they actually end up saving more money than the people who set the big savings schools. So the people who said


Susan Sly: I am easily saving $100 a month they saved on average close to $5,000 whereas the people who said, I’m going to say 5000 they say less than 2500


Susan Sly: So we, we can build the new habit using joking mean oxytocin, the hormone of connection. So we want to surround ourselves and and David is world class at this with other people with the same habit.


Susan Sly: If you had nine friends who were marathon runners and you were the only non marathon runner. I bet you you’d end up doing a marathon. Right. And so getting in a Facebook group.


Susan Sly: You know, that’s why peloton is so addictive because they’ve got the group. They’ve got the doping mean they understand the psychology and these hormones.


Susan Sly: The next thing to Sarah tone in his other people reinforcing you for that habit. So who are your cheerleaders, who are you know again in those groups like Who are the people who are cheering you on. When you accomplish the goals.


Susan Sly: And then endorphins come from those challenges. And so maybe building up to doing a five k or building up to whatever that is. So,


Susan Sly: That’s how I suggest we develop habits. It’s that reinforcement. That’s how you know that’s how it’s served me and you know the thousands of people that I’ve spoken to on stages and things in terms of developing new habits.


David Horsager: Well, that’s awesome.


David Horsager: powerful, powerful, powerful stuff. And I think, you know, I want to jump into something else. But you know all of this talk really gets to that we believe organizations don’t change.


David Horsager: Only individuals do but when an individual does than a team and organization, even a country can I remember we were working on corruption issues in in East Africa, and we still


David Horsager: Definitely you know I’m not going flying over so much this last year with covered, but, but, you know, we have to change.


David Horsager: A police officer, we have to then change a sis, you know that we, we need to have systemic change, but we need to change. Somebody who will go away from 100 years old you know


David Horsager: Way of thinking, right. So it’s the same with health or anything else. We don’t change the company so much until we change a person of viewpoint and give them tools and resources inspiration to move forward. So I love that I


David Horsager: So many things I want to touch base on. Can you, you know, while we’re still on this. Can you give the quick kind of story of, you know, you had all these diagnosis, you should be dead doctor said, and yet you don’t have Ms. Now, just the quick what you know what that what happened.


Susan Sly: Sir, um, yeah. I had, I had Dave Asprey on my show and I think he articulated something that I was really seeking for many years is how do I answer that question.


Susan Sly: I became my own experiment. So when Montel not Montel Jordan. Montel Williams was diagnosed with MS. He became a huge advocate of the ketogenic diet. And I’m like, well, it’s working for Montel I’ll give it a try.


Susan Sly: You know detoxing. A lot of people in the MS world. We’re getting better. And they were they had some kind of regular detoxification plan.


Susan Sly: Ozone Therapy. There were so many things that I was like, hey, if it’s working. I’m going to try it. And so from that there. I came to my own formula of what works for me.


Susan Sly: And during that process of getting well I ended up getting diagnosed with Lyme disease. I was on a trip in Africa gotten amoeba. It started shutting down my organs. So in 2016 David, I almost died.


Susan Sly: And two doctors told me that if it wasn’t for the nutrition regime. I have, I would have been dead.


Susan Sly: And so I really felt like that was an opportunity for me because it took two years to come out of that. And then I was like, I get the opportunity to go into the next iteration of Susan, which was such a blessing right and


Susan Sly: And so yeah, my regime has shifted over the years. There’s still a lot of things I do, I do. IV therapy. I do. As I said, I do ozone therapy.


Susan Sly: I, you know, usually once a year, I go and I just go on like a like literal juice fasting retreat I you know self care is a big thing for me and you have to make time


Susan Sly: There are a lot of people, men and women executives who say I’ll do it when I’ll do it when we bring in this deal. You know, I, as a start up founder on the list of two companies for m&a


Susan Sly: I’m not saying that stuff. That’s how little excuse you have to take care of yourself now because cancer will come knocking when cancer comes knocking.


Susan Sly: All, you know, and I’ve seen so many people get derailed because they didn’t take care of themselves. And then the last thing I want to say about this is


Susan Sly: You don’t just wake up one day and decide to get healthy


Susan Sly: And make change in that day. And the same thing is true. You just don’t wake up one day unhealthy.


Susan Sly: All of those Doritos and the the aspartame, you had in the diet sodas and all the little things that eventually became a domino effect. And then you woke up one day and you were not well. And the other thing is, most people don’t know how bad they feel until they start feeling good.


David Horsager: That’s that is true.


David Horsager: Well, let’s take a leap here because what what I love about this and i love about you, Susan is you seek to be healthy.


David Horsager: In life, and it makes you a better CEO and you built some incredible companies that have have had global impact your CEO of a company right now. You’re, you have a huge following and


David Horsager: You know, you got these couple m&a is coming up. So let’s jump to let’s let’s actually jump to your newest radio say i i mean


David Horsager: This is a new you know i know you just came out of a new MIT program I’m you’re a continual learner. I mean, it just because you needed to have that expertise at this age for this new type of company. So tell us about that and what you’re learning these days.


Susan Sly: Are absolutely. The question I would ask everyone to really sit with you know whether you’re listening on the treadmill or your, you know, in your car on an airplane or wherever you are.


Susan Sly: What is the gap in your life.


Susan Sly: And what is that thing that if your career was only known for what you had previously done


Susan Sly: And could be known for no more that you would feel is missing.


Susan Sly: Because I’m going to tell everyone right now. And it’s not that I’m talking at you. I’m talking with you as appear. We all have that thing, whether it’s writing a book or stepping into the C suite or


Susan Sly: Going from the C suite to creating a legacy program to mentor kids or whatever it is for you. We’re all there’s always that one thing for us. So as I was


Susan Sly: You know, after the age 45 and coming out of nearly dying from the amoeba and everything else.


Susan Sly: I sat with our question because when we’re, we’re in illness. This is not a bad thing, necessarily. It’s an opportunity to reflect


Susan Sly: And so I said, what is that one thing and it was really technology.


Susan Sly: And so when i was i graduated University in 92 I left home when I was 15 years old I put myself through college. I did a science degree.


Susan Sly: At the end of university I was coding and we were doing some of the early facial recognition algorithms.


Susan Sly: And I left all of that went into the health space went into professional sales built three award winning sales teams and


Susan Sly: And when I came out of that experience. The technology was that part of me that I was like, if, if this was all I’ve done, I’ve done some pretty kick butt things, but I haven’t


Susan Sly: Conquered this mountain. So I was in the process of designing my own technology and I ended up bumping into someone who is just newly founded an AI company.


Susan Sly: And they brought me in to help them raise money which, if I have one area of genius raising money is not a problem.


Susan Sly: So, so we start raising this money and I become a co founder and we brought in $7.1 million in seed funding and we didn’t do it with any institutional investors.


Susan Sly: And you know just started growing the company. I went from a vice president or President to co CEO, which I prefer being co CEO as opposed to see you and my other CEO, he’s


Susan Sly: He PhD engineer really bright and we complement each other so


Susan Sly: where we’re at with this company is we’re providing business intelligence in the retail sector, but in the healthcare sector, we’re actually doing code pre screening and taking the burden off frontline workers so


Susan Sly: Mayo Clinic, we’re doing an installation, the VA right now and and how this is so interesting and fascinating David I want everyone, especially the CEOs to lean in and listen and and all of your, your audience.


Susan Sly: Last year McKinsey came out with a report that said by the year 20 3800 million jobs would be displaced globally by AI and machine learning.


Susan Sly: What Kovac did is it accelerated that a lot of companies who laid off people, those people aren’t coming back because they will use machine learning, they will use AI, they will use robotics and so the reason I bring this all up. You mentioned like I’m a lifelong learner.


Susan Sly: Because it’s about adapting to our terrain.


Susan Sly: And I don’t care if you’re in your 30s, 40s.


Susan Sly: Our mentor Harvey MacKay he’s still adopting he’s almost 90 we must continuously adapt.


Susan Sly: So this next iteration of my career will really be about taking artificial intelligence and using it for good. So at our company. We only do human centric AI, we only do a project if it’s going to help humans become better and not replace them.


David Horsager: How do you, I love it. How did you create your team. When you think about bringing this team together. I know you and the co founder, you got this. The complement each other. You’ve got these key things but


David Horsager: Now you’re growing company, your significant valuation.


David Horsager: Might have an couple m&a opportunities for a couple companies you have, but how have you


David Horsager: Grown that team. How do you do with building this trusted team. How do you let people go when they need to, like, how do you create that culture and that team that you need and and make sure it is high performing


Susan Sly: That’s an amazing question. And especially in the startup space where you have a high level of churn.


Susan Sly: One of the things that I think our team has done really well is we’ve hired through referrals like attracts like right so two of our amazing application engineers one came from a significant background and GoDaddy.


Susan Sly: They were friends of one of our initial investors and and they’re just amazing humans at our mutual friend Christine Jones knows this guy and he’s incredible. His name is Jeff.


Susan Sly: But that’s what we did. We started. And the same thing with all of the business that we’re bringing in. Now it’s come from our relationships, our connections.


Susan Sly: Harvey always says Harvey MacKay good agreements prevent disagreements.


Susan Sly: And it’s a philosophy. We’ve used at the company. So when someone’s coming in. We’re very clear. We’re a startup. We have an Aesop


Susan Sly: We can’t pay you what you’re worth. But here’s what we can do and you’re some days some weeks you’re going to work seven days a week, but we are also are going to be flexible. We’re gonna have an open door policy.


Susan Sly: There and I’ll just share this story very quickly for all of the people who are overseeing people so many, many years ago.


Susan Sly: In Canada, there was a band called The tragically hip and they were like, The Rolling Stones of Canada.


Susan Sly: And early in my fitness career I prepped them for tours. I was their nutritionist. I was their trainer and when they had a conflict, they would lock themselves in a room until it was solved.


Susan Sly: And so one of the philosophies, we’ve had, especially for see team is if there’s been a conflict, we do not stop until it is resolved.


Susan Sly: And if someone has an issue with someone they pick up the phone and they deal with it.


Susan Sly: And that philosophy for us has been so important in our governance, so that you know and it’s it’s felt, you know, you know this better than anyone because this is your area of genius. If the C team has conflict, the entire team has conflict.


David Horsager: Undeniably So jumping one more level. Have you had to let someone go ever. It doesn’t benefit.


Susan Sly: Yeah yeah


David Horsager: And we know how, how do you either decide that. And how do you do that because that’s, you know, that’s a challenge people have. It’s like that like me.


David Horsager: I hate letting people go but sometime the most trusted thing you can do, or the, excuse me, just the best thing you can do the most compassionate thing you can do for them and the organization is to let them go. And yet it plagues many of us.


Susan Sly: We let them go because it was a trust issue. They’re very capable engineer super smart.


Susan Sly: And and they left our company and they got a $400,000 you know next job. Right. But it was a trust issue and our CTO, he came from a company called amino which is the largest privately held healthcare database in the world.


Susan Sly: And this man has an amazing soul, and he came to us and he said, Listen, this is what this person did to violate trust.


Susan Sly: And he’s great in terms of his skill, but that’s just not going to work. And so anyone. We’ve let go of and there hasn’t been a lot. It’s been a trust issue. And that’s our number one KPI if we can’t trust you. You’re out you don’t care how many PhDs, you have


Susan Sly: Right.


David Horsager: I love it. I am so proud of your work. I am so grateful to know you. We gotta jump into the lightning round quick answers. Two quick questions because I know you have something top of the top of the hour, I have something top of the hour and


David Horsager: So we, we just need to have you back for a whole lot more that you could share with us. But let’s let’s just jump into a few things really quick and


David Horsager: And then you can throw in. If you have something you really want to share will give you a space for that too. And I do want to note we’re going to end with and we’ll put in the show notes exactly where they can connect with you appropriately so


David Horsager: Jump into this, you know, I don’t know. He’s asked this one of the lightning round, but because you have this might not be lightning, actually. But this productivity you you kind of, you know, you are a mom that you’re running company. You are so busy. And yet, when I talk to you.


David Horsager: Whether it’s at an event or conference or our mastermind group. I feel like you were so present


David Horsager: Which is just a gift, but you are running a lot of things. Is there one productivity tip of the thousands, you could give busy people today.


Susan Sly: value your time. You don’t value your time at what you’re earning now you value your time at what you want it to be the difference between Warren Buffett or


Susan Sly: I could look at Elon Musk when he shifted from trying to sell Tim Cook Tesla to becoming. You know the one of the biggest companies in the world right now.


Susan Sly: Is because he shifted his self value.


Susan Sly: So it’s, I don’t believe in Fake it until you make it, but I do believe that you value your time. If you want to make a million dollars a year, your time is worth $500 an hour.


Susan Sly: valued at the level that you want to get to and you’re going to show up differently and we teach the world how to treat us and people will treat you differently.


Susan Sly: And so when I’m present with you, David. It’s I value, you and I value me, and so I’m present in that space where we’re exchanging value.


David Horsager: Love it.


David Horsager: Favorite book or resource right now.


Susan Sly: Oh my gosh, there’s so many this year 2020 what I said I’m going to read 24 books on business marketing and and self development, like, okay, old school.


Susan Sly: Get out the Run DMC and beyond Wallace D wattles the science of getting rich I’m reading that for the fifth time


Susan Sly: I’m highlighting it like never before. And the big key note out of that is whatever you do in business.


Susan Sly: It’s important to give the impression the true impression of increase that people who interact with you will get some kind of increase. So from the 1930s Wallace D wattles the science of getting rich by for $5 on Amazon. I think it’s 109 pages.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: That’s awesome. Something you something you can’t live without.


Susan Sly: Well, outside of my family is my Bible I carry with me everywhere. The thing is thick and heavy my husband’s like why are you packing a carry on. I’m like, you have


Susan Sly: A checking back. I’m like the Bible and then number two is my CEMEX for coffee. I need really good coffee in the morning. And if I don’t have good coffee that I it’s not a. Yeah. No, it’s not a


David Horsager: Copy.


David Horsager: All right. I mean, need to understand that more, but I, that sounds good. Perfect. Nothing like putting in truth when you read your Bible, by the way, when you daily


Susan Sly: Every night Jim Rowan said, and it goes back to modeling behavior. And this is in you know I was raised in a Buddhist Jewish Christian household, if it’s your Torah, it’s your whatever just read it.


Susan Sly: Jim Ron said if you want to make a million dollars a year.


Susan Sly: You need to read the New Testament every night and apply those principles to your business. I was not making million dollars a year at a time. It was many, many years ago, I was making like 300,000 year, I was like, I want to get to a million Jim’s telling me to do this.


Susan Sly: That’s why I started doing it, haven’t stopped. All right.


David Horsager: There we go. Best advice or favorite quote


Susan Sly: Will Smith said money doesn’t change who you are. It only amplifies what is already there.


David Horsager: Hmm.


David Horsager: From the philosopher, Will Smith.


Susan Sly: We share a birthday so that anyone in my inner circle, who’s a good person. I want to do everything I can to help them make more money.


Susan Sly: If it’s promoting their book you’re going to be on my shit like whatever it is, because they’re going to do more good in the world. And I get so fired up about that, like that’s like, I can’t even like it’s, yeah.


David Horsager: Here we go. I love it. Three minutes left before you got to be on another call one thing left on your bucket list.


Susan Sly: I’m turning 50 next year and I had Jesse its lair. Oh, Misha if you don’t know who. Yeah, I know you do. But he’s founder of net jets. His wife is Sara Blakely founder of Spanx. Thank you, Sarah for making Spanx great invention.


Susan Sly: So Jesse was turning 50. And I said, what are you going to do, and he said, I am going to learn 50 new things in here so cool. So I decided that I’m going to have 15 new experiences in a year.


Susan Sly: And the one of them is going to be scuba diving in the Red Sea. I also want to drive a bulldozer. So one of my asks everyone


Susan Sly: Is if you will teach me how to drive a bulldozer. I would be very, very grateful because that is going to be really stinking cool and I’m super excited about it.


Susan Sly: Those are just a couple of the things, David, I am one of my friends suggested I make a list of 50 people that I’d really like to meet and connect with you know that’s a possibility. As part of that list, but I’m going to spend a year, enjoying 50 new experiences so


David Horsager: That’s all that is tremendous. Oh my goodness. There’s so much here faith decisions habits continual learner. The, the, the, putting out the Five Jars reduce the friction. Remember this reduce the friction in your


David Horsager: Don’t forget dose that motivator for habits dope mean oxytocin serotonin and endorphins.


David Horsager: What’s the question, what’s the gap in your life. Don’t focus on what you’re going through. Focus on what you’re going to, there’s a whole lot more here. And everybody listening and I’m so grateful for all of it. Where can people find out or meet or connect with you, Susan sly


Susan Sly: Absolutely. It’s easy. Susan sly.com I’m on all the social platforms. I mean clubhouse. Now I’m hosting a room with some friends coming up.


Susan Sly: But, you know, they can connect with me there. If you i this is my ask if you have a cool suggestion for an experience like not a like something cool. I’m just on Instagram tag me I’m


Susan Sly: I’m curating the list. And the second thing, if you are in the healthcare space and you are connected to hospitals decision makers in hospitals.


Susan Sly: You can go to radius AI com my email is Susan sly radio say I calm, because we want to help as many of the frontline workers as possible. And it’s a passion project for me that we’re going to be integrated in 2021 and a minimum of 100 hospitals, so


David Horsager: I love it. We


David Horsager: Are exhausted, we get it. We yeah that’s the truth. So we need to talk about this after the show. A lot of our work obviously is in healthcare.


David Horsager: And in all the we’re bringing stars, you know, enterprise trust index.


David Horsager: And all of that. So all of that will be in the show notes trusted leader show.com will make sure you have everything there. So just go there trusted leader show calm, but I do have a final question.


David Horsager: So we’re going to get to it. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Susan Sly: Harvey. I’m going to just say Harvey MacKay our mentor, he, he always tells it straight. He has an amazing heart he has, you know, where, where does respect come from. It comes from


Susan Sly: People who have been there, done that. And they’re willing to share their mistakes as well as their wins and and i would say I would say Harvey.


David Horsager: Yeah.


David Horsager: Well then, Harvey is why we met and got to know each other in our mastermind group and accountability group and I’m grateful for that.


Susan Sly: Let’s do a shameless plug for his new book, Getting a job is a job. It will be his eight New York Times bestseller. He’s almost 90 getting a job as a job.


David Horsager: Everyone nice to


Susan Sly: Get that


David Horsager: And speaking of habits. By the way, but it absolutely getting a job as a job. I just endorse it. Put it put an Amazon.


David Horsager: five star review of it. But you know, I talked to him. You and I both talked to him on the same day last week just had Kobe almost 90 years old he’s coming through it. He said, Because of his


David Horsager: In many ways, his faith and exercise regimen and you talked about a guy who’s run marathons and is an inspiration of health and leadership. And so with that, which we could take more time we will another time. But every minute has been worth it. Thank you, Susan sly


David Horsager: I just appreciate you being on and appreciate more than that you’ve been my friend, and it has been the trusted leader show. Until next time, stay trusted

Ep. 21: Special Trusted Leader Book Episode ft. Maria and Micah Horsager

In this special episode, the tables are turned as Maria and Micah Horsager sit down with their dad, David, to discuss David’s new book Trusted Leader and why he chose to write this book as a business parable.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Trusted Leader Book Synopsis:
“A lack of trust is your biggest expense,” says Wall Street Journal bestselling author David Horsager. Without trust, transactions cannot occur. Without trust, influence is destroyed. Without trust, leaders lose their people. Trust can be either your most vulnerable weakness or your greatest asset.

Horsager introduces readers to his Eight Pillars of Trust through the journey of a senior leader who thought success was certain. Follow CEO Ethan Parker as he discovers the power of trust and how to apply it amid the complexities of leadership, change, and culture transformation.

The Eight Pillars of Trust (Clarity, Compassion, Character, Competency, Commitment, Connection, Contribution, and Consistency) are based on Horsager’s original research and extensive experience working with Fortune 500 companies and top government agencies around the globe. In addition to the business parable, this book is rich in practical advice for implementing each of the Eight Pillars. You will learn strategies to increase alignment, overcome attrition, and get absolutely clear on executing your top priorities. Horsager offers a road map for how to become the most trusted expert in your industry.

David’s Bio:
David Horsager is the CEO of Trust Edge Leadership Institute and a global authority on helping leaders and organizations become THE most trusted in their industry. Horsager is the national bestselling author of The Trust Edge, inventor of the Enterprise Trust Index™, director of one of the nation’s foremost trust studies: The Trust Outlook,™ and Trust Expert in Residence at High Point University. David’s work has been featured in prominent publications such as Fast Company, Forbes, and The Wall Street Journal. David has advised leaders and delivered life-changing presentations on six continents, with audiences ranging everywhere from FedEx, Toyota and global governments to the New York Yankees and the Department of Homeland Security.

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

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