Ep. 10: Milton Dodd on The 4 “L’s” of Successful Leadership

In this episode, David sits down with Milton Dodd, Trust Edge Senior Consultant, to discuss the 4 “L’s” that every leader needs in order to succeed in leadership.

Milton’s Bio:
Milton has a passion for leadership. He’s known for identifying and illuminating hidden potential and extracting the very best from those he leads. Milton helps people maximize their greatness. Leveraging more than two decades of experience as a corporate leader, he is consistently sought out for leadership consulting and strategy development by large and small organizations alike. During his tenure in corporate America, he was known for turnaround outcomes, developing leaders and executive influence. Milton earned his MBA from St. Mary’s University of Minnesota and is a Trust Edge Certified Coach.

Milton’s Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miltondodd/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/milton_dodd/

Key Quotes:
1. “The winds of change is undefeated.”
2. “In leadership, you are never going to be able to avoid challenges.”
3. “You have to be consistent in your efforts.”
4. “Be a student of the business that you’re a part of.”
5. “How do you put yourself aside and attend to the needs of the one that you’re leading.”
6. “You learn from what you listen to.”
7. “Empower your team to do the things neccesary without you being there.”
8. “There’s great talent all around you.”
9. “Activity is not a singular process.”
10. “Leadership, like a stone dropped in a body of water, ripples well beyond the entry point.”
11. “Leadership is still about activity and results.”
12. “The only way you can change your perspective is by being involved in something that makes you uncomfortable.”
13. “What can I do to effectuate change where I am today?”
14. “True leaders really see things in others that they can’t very well see in themselves.”
15. “As a leader our job is to take good care of the people that we are entrusted to lead.”
16. “If you have a thought, write it down.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks: https://amzn.to/3bnvtXy
Rites of Passage: https://www.ropmpls.org/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it is great to have you here. You’re going to love our guest. We went inside on this.


David Horsager: He’s been a corporate leader, but he’s also run our consulting practice for the last year in the midst of


David Horsager: coven and all kinds of other challenges. He’s also interim director operations director for an organization. He is just he’s, he’s a friend and he is a brilliant leader. I’m glad to have you here. Mr. Milton Dodd.


Milton Dodd: Hey, David. Thanks. So glad to be on your trusted leader show today.


David Horsager: Well, I can tell you. Here’s someone I can say he’s made me better and personally better. So we’re grateful to have you on. But, you know, for people that don’t know you. Melton, let’s jump in. What are a few things to know about Milton Dodd.


Milton Dodd: Well, you know, it’s really hard to kind of bragging yourself, but you know, one of the things that I will say about me is


Milton Dodd: I have a passion for leadership. And that started at an early age. I grew up in a very small town very humble beginnings


Milton Dodd: In a small town most won’t know called bells on a Mississippi, but it’s known for being the catfish capital.


Milton Dodd: Of the world. And I think those grid beginnings and where I learned my leadership from my mother, who was a school principal in the in this town of only one school


Milton Dodd: And then being able to branch out and really moved to Minnesota and to broaden my perspective by meeting other coaches and being around other people


Milton Dodd: So in you know in my professional life for last 24 years I was part of a great organization. I took a turn and took an opportunity to pivot at the beginning of this year and it’s been fun. Ever since, well,


David Horsager: Let’s go back to corporate because you are part of big corporate and you were really, you know, asked in those days to


David Horsager: Do in some cases pretty significant turnarounds and dealing with tough issues.


David Horsager: And as a leader you had to, you had to hire, but you had to fire you had to do things the right way. And I remember one story that you have where


David Horsager: You really were trusted even in the way. And when you had to lay people off. But what, what was it like to kind of be a part of that turn on. How did you stay trusted the midst of having to turn something around sometimes tough.


Milton Dodd: You know, it’s always tough when you take a look at in any organization. There’s always going to be abs and flows, there’s gonna be change.


Milton Dodd: The winds of change doesn’t is it affects every organizations is the winds of change is undefeated.


Milton Dodd: And in my role, I was really called on to handle some very tough topics I think or challenges I think because of the way that I managed it. I always worked or or when I when I approached


Milton Dodd: leadership challenges, whether they were something that you know whether we were expanding territories or contracted territories.


Milton Dodd: I always approached him with the people in mind, and I tried to get into the mindset of those people


Milton Dodd: Who were being affected affected adversely and really showed a high level of respect for them as we walk through the challenges that we all face. I remember one particular story.


Milton Dodd: When I was had to do had have had a very challenging.


Milton Dodd: Opportunity and at the end of the conversation that the young man, thank me. And he thanked me because not because of the situation, but because of the way I approached him and I think in leadership.


Milton Dodd: You’re never going to fall away or be able to avoid challenges and innocent innocent in the way that you


Milton Dodd: Put yourself in the mindset of the people and really show respect to them throughout it is is is allows you to become a better leader for them and for the situation at hand.


David Horsager: I love that. And we’re going to get back to it to personal leadership, too. But I think we were thinking about, you know, your public role, your corporate role, some of your leadership roles of big companies. I know you helped us


David Horsager: Really building trust with a with a global pharmaceutical organization that’s that’s that’s building trust in the midst of, of, you know, the global challenges or recent merger and all that. But when you have to, you know, when you have to hold people accountable.


Milton Dodd: Yeah, I mean,


David Horsager: You have any tips on how do you actually stay trusted or build trust in the midst of this challenge of how having to have healthy accountability. I mean, any quick tips for that.


Milton Dodd: I think it starts with consistency, which is, you know, one of the pillars, you know, you have to be consistent.


Milton Dodd: In your efforts and you know in sales. When I lead an organization of 135 people in the total organization. We had KPIs. We have key performance indicators.


Milton Dodd: That we managed to but I think the first step is in when you’re talking about holding people accountable.


Milton Dodd: You have to first understand what you’re holding them accountable to so you have buy in from what you’ve agreed to. And that’s the mission. That’s the strategy is the vision as the objectives of the organization.


Milton Dodd: And then from there you have the, you know, you have your check ins and you have ways to ensure that what the team is doing is on target on par with what you agreed on.


Milton Dodd: And that makes it. I forget how the manager said to me one time, but he said there is


Milton Dodd: There is great ease in managing to performance when you have specific indicators to measure their performance. And I think in some cases with companies have strategy to ensure


Milton Dodd: You don’t really have the opportunity to lead in the right way because you don’t have those measures in place to ensure that the team understands what they’re to do on a daily basis in order to be successful.


David Horsager: So let’s go a little bit granular because this is all about trust, I mean that there’s all kinds of levels of trust, but let. There’s a lot of people today.


David Horsager: That have gone virtual in your day as leading an organization, leading the sales part of an organization, you often worked in the same city as them. But you had to, you had to lead them. So whether you


David Horsager: Lead them virtually because you had to her phone calls are flying in once in a while and checking on things or people today. Let’s take sales specifically


David Horsager: That they that we want to trust that salesperson is doing what they’re supposed to be doing virtually, what would be let’s get to agreed upon KPIs are there certain measures is it you know it’s probably different for organizations this many calls or this may this but


David Horsager: We’re kind of things are we looking at to measure on and how often do we need to check in.


Milton Dodd: Sure you know in in today’s world, you know, when I started with the organization, I would say, you know, it was a weekly check in would be okay.


Milton Dodd: Because they’re the measurements were pretty easy and and now is just becomes so complicated with what teams have to do from an activity standpoint, in order to be successful and measuring that activity.


Milton Dodd: Is probably the most important thing when it comes to KPIs today because we know the activity leads to sales and the activity also Lisa sustain relationships.


Milton Dodd: And I think it’s more of a daily check in. When you think about CRM like Salesforce or HubSpot or any of the number of ones that are out there.


Milton Dodd: You know, the important thing is to have something where you can edit glance. Make sure that the activity is happening as a leader in order to grow sales based on the mission, vision and strategy you have


David Horsager: I love it. I love this activity leads to sales and activity builds relationship. That’s the consistency piece.


Too.


David Horsager: So if you’re looking for a great sales, like maybe we even back out to you. What are some sales tips.


David Horsager: That you might have like this work for you to to get we’re all in sales. Right. It doesn’t matter for leadership management we want we want to sell a message we want to sell impact we want to sell a product, we want to sell a mission or a, you know,


David Horsager: Yeah, people believe something today. What, what, what are the other any kind of tips for people that build trust by doing this, or just that this sales tip work. This activity is something I really looked for loved when I found this in one of my team.


Milton Dodd: You sure you know i. So let’s I’ll break it up into different places.


Milton Dodd: You know when I’m thinking about a team member, especially when you’re interviewing and you’re trying to find someone to come alongside in the organization to help move the organization forward. You really look for a passion.


Milton Dodd: A passion for sales and then you want to make sure that the person has a passion for the product or service that you’re asking them to be a part of.


Milton Dodd: And if you can combine those two things, then I think you can be very successful. I just think of


Milton Dodd: When I when I joined your team, or when I worked or as I’m working with Genesis works. The first thing I had to do and I till I try to explain this to especially up and comers or even leaders.


Milton Dodd: Be a student of the business that you’re part of and that means understanding the competition.


Milton Dodd: Understanding the products and services you offer understanding what your value proposition is and those things allow you to be more confident


Milton Dodd: When you’re selling the product and then you’re not selling. You’re just presenting an opportunity for someone to join a very good up or you presented an opportunity for someone to join your organization through the product or service that you offer and I think


Milton Dodd: That way it makes it a lot simpler for people to digest what you’re


Milton Dodd: Sharing with them. And then it also makes makes it easy for them to do business with you. You know, I think of the opportunity that we recently had with one of the organizations that we’re working with.


Milton Dodd: And it was more about a conversation and really delving in and understanding what their needs are and then tailoring your solution to that particular need.


David Horsager: Boy, more and more everything’s got to be contextualize right you want. We want our burger. Our way we want our this. You can’t just stamp it out and say it’s going to be like this and you’re getting pickles and catch it no matter what. It’s got to be


David Horsager: I want my burger my way and this trust stuff and that project you’re talking about, hey, we’ve seen something amazing change.


David Horsager: But


David Horsager: We spent all use I should say a lot of time listening and learning and seeing how can we apply this trust work to them in a way that will hit their KPIs and make a difference in their context.


Milton Dodd: You know, it’s so true. And I think that’s very important because


Milton Dodd: I, you know, I’ve been involved with organizations. And then we’ve seen people come in to help to help our organization moving in a certain direction or to help our organization.


Milton Dodd: Achieve a certain goal. And I think the one key component that we missed some time is the Listening component


Milton Dodd: Kind of like, okay, taking your own ego and sending to the side and trying to get into the mindset of the people that you’re serving


Milton Dodd: So that can be if you’re a consultant that could be the group that you’re consulting with


Milton Dodd: If your leader within an organization that could be the team that you’re leading if it’s your family. That could be your children. So all of those things. It’s a consistent effort around how do you


Milton Dodd: Put yourself aside in attend to the needs of the one that you’re leading so that you can present the best solution for that.


David Horsager: So, and I know you and I know that this listening is a big deal for you and


David Horsager: That you


David Horsager: You kind of have four L’s that you go by.


David Horsager: Yes, tell, tell me about what were those inspired and what are they so people hear this because it’s it’s a great mantra for leadership.


Milton Dodd: Well, you know, a lot of the things you learn to do as a leader is sometimes is is it’s the is the is anti to what you received as it from your leadership.


Milton Dodd: And so one of the things I learned very early on in my career is the importance of listening in as a leader when I think about


Milton Dodd: mission and vision and strategy. What a leader should do is listen for listen for the fact that the team understands what the mission or the vision that they’ve laid out for that particular team.


Milton Dodd: And you hear that through. I think what you say. Sometimes David is the common language within the organization. Are you establishing a common language through listening.


Milton Dodd: Through listening to what your team is saying, and also tying it to the mission and making sure it ties to your mission and vision.


Milton Dodd: And then I think the other thing as a leader is about listening is to demonstrate your listening through your actions.


Milton Dodd: So when you have an opportunity or you’re looking to push for us a vision for the organization. Make sure that you’re demonstrating that you heard them.


Milton Dodd: And that you’re presenting a collaborative environment as you are moving towards greater heights for the organization. Now, that doesn’t mean that each and every time.


Milton Dodd: You have to acquiesce to the the winds of the team, but it also but it is important to rich really try to truly understand what their needs are and then provide the tools and resources for them.


David Horsager: So that’s, that’s the listening L, you’ve got you’ve got three more else


David Horsager: Do you go by and leadership.


Milton Dodd: And then you and then you need to learn, you know, especially toy cove. I think we learned a lot. I think all of us have learned a lot. I think


Milton Dodd: You know leaders today has really have really had to really kind of break the mold of what they were used to and you learn from what you you listen to, or you learn from what you glean from your team and that may mean pivoting that may mean stepping outside of


Milton Dodd: Of stepping outside of the box that you may have normally stayed with them.


Milton Dodd: And I think that leaders that listen and then apply that through learning have a better opportunity to push their teams to greater heights and then you’re talking about leading and now leading is


Milton Dodd: Just that it is stepping back and allowing your team to thrive by pointing in the right direction and then allowing them to move in that direction, providing the tools, providing the resources, removing the roadblocks, helping them make decisions in order


Milton Dodd: In order to reach their journey. And then the last thing I think sometimes when you have that person.


Milton Dodd: Who is ready to branch out and be a leader themselves. You have to find the, you have to find a way to let go. And that’s that empowerment piece.


Milton Dodd: empower your team to do the things necessary without you being there or absent of you being there, such that they can grow and learn to be leaders themselves.


David Horsager: I love it. So listen, learn lead and let go to questions come to mind right away. What did you learn, personally, as a leader you know in this last nine months or or in the last year of coven


Milton Dodd: You know, I think the thing I learned most is there’s great talent all around you, and I think that needs to acknowledging you need to acknowledge the people around you and really delve into what their


Milton Dodd: What their opportunities are but more importantly what they’re very good at, you know, I’m reading a book right now called the


Milton Dodd: The big leap by gay. Hendricks and it talks about their zone of genius and their ability to do that. One thing that’s great and allowing them to do that.


Milton Dodd: And and as a leader coming alongside them and nurturing them. Um, you know, I’ve really in my most recent role and I gained appreciation for really


Milton Dodd: I really enjoy teaching the next generation in an organization that I’m currently with


Milton Dodd: Or working with we we have a number of millennials in there still searching for what it is that that that that makes them special within the organization and I love coming alongside them and helping them kind of calling that out and then challenging them to reach those greater heights.


David Horsager: I love it. And let’s do one more time. As you go to let go. I think a lot of leaves. I think I’ve had challenges with this and


David Horsager: And but you think of that group that you’re leading with millennials, or you think of just, you know, back to all the national sales teams. You’ve led and whatnot.


David Horsager: Is there any more, as far as tips on accountability or anything you’ve learned about this this millennial group you’re leading largely or


David Horsager: Just any thing else on accountability, because I think you know we have a lot of leaders like


David Horsager: Yeah, I can just empower people empower people empower people and I’m empowering them and then they’re going off the cliff, the wrong direction. So how do I balance that empowerment with healthy accountability, any, any tips.


Milton Dodd: Well, I think that’s the thing, David. It’s not when when I say let go. It’s not like you know it’s a child so


Milton Dodd: As you as your child grows, you tend to a lot of the do certain things, but you’d never you never fully let go of them right. You’re always there. Like, like guide rails.


Milton Dodd: On a on a road with two with a cliff. I mean, you’re there to ensure that they don’t go off that


Milton Dodd: proverbial cliff. But, you know, by checking in with them and staying in tune with them. I don’t mean let go. In a sense of, Okay, you got it. Move on, or


Milton Dodd: Okay, I’m going to stand back at 30,000 feet the entire time. You know, that’s why those KPIs are in place to ensure that one. The activity stays there.


Milton Dodd: Such that the the results can be there as well. So let go means you stay close enough to give them time to sway right or left, but they don’t go over that proverbial edge because you’re the guide rails as a leader.


David Horsager: Do you have any thinking about this. Do you have habits as a leader. I’m getting personal we talked about


David Horsager: A little things done consistently make the biggest difference. Whether it’s personal or at work. What, what do you have any personal routines or habits that like I do this because this if I don’t do this consistently for myself. I’m not as good.


Milton Dodd: Yeah, you know, it probably come out of more of my habits doing covidien and having a more unstructured schedule. But when I was in my in a very structured environment. I spent a lot of time one taking a look at it.


Milton Dodd: As a sales leader I spend a lot of time one taking a look at the numbers and really trying to figure out a way to share those in a manner that’s digestible to the team.


Milton Dodd: That you’re leading. I mean, when you look at an organization where I had 110 million dollars and 107 hundred sales people.


Milton Dodd: You know, I had to break it down, such that they could digest what I’m trying to share with them and the strategy or the mission for the week, if you will, the mission sometimes for that particular day


Milton Dodd: So, spending time really understanding the information, such that


Milton Dodd: You’ll be you become less. It’s not a novel for them to read, but you become the leader that provides them the cliff notes so they can get just enough to start the process of moving forward for that mission or vision that you have for them.


David Horsager: And your MBA, not to stay in the number so to


David Horsager: Speak Yeah, long, but your MBA was in data analytics, if I recall


David Horsager: What what number should we be looking for, I don’t know whether it’s in business or life. What, what kind of numbers in a salesperson what we what are a few numbers that you think these are the common KPIs that really everybody in whatever role should be thinking about


Milton Dodd: Sure. When I think of sales in particular sales is activity when I you know in in the organization.


Milton Dodd: That I worked for we dealt with schools and we spent a lot of times trying to penetrate the market and gain market share. And the only way we able to do that was have sales activity on a daily basis that led to the


Milton Dodd: Results that we were looking for. So that’s the first thing is how many calls does a salesperson make depending on the industry. It changes.


Milton Dodd: If you know if you are cold calling is going to be hundreds of calls in a given day.


Milton Dodd: If you’re more strategic and you’re looking for one calls and you have leads, it may be just, you know, it may be 10 or 15 depending on the market that you’re in, but


Milton Dodd: In our world, we look for somewhere between 10 to 15 quality calls on a given day to help us reach our goals.


Milton Dodd: And we, you know, it’s one thing to have a an activity. It’s another thing to have details behind that activity. So you have activity. And then you have more qualified activity with more details to help you understand that we’re actually moving through the sales process and right way.


Milton Dodd: You can have a visit. And then you can have a quality visit and then you have a quality visit with the contact with a decision maker. And then from there, you either set up a meeting.


Milton Dodd: That you share the product or services that you’re offering and then you move it to close. So sometimes it can be a five or six step activity process before you get to that close.


Milton Dodd: But the most important thing you can do as a leader is understand the interim steps it takes and then ensure that you’re watching each of those steps and challenging them along the way activity is not a singular process is probably what I’ll say


David Horsager: Absolutely we in our, in our most transactional you everything from consulting and enterprise trust index and coaching all the things we do here. The most transactional thing probably is.


David Horsager: Transactional offering is speaking right me going in and keynote at an event. And we have a process that has over 30 points touch points for one speech.


David Horsager: To make sure it’s consistent and valuable at all the way to follow up and thank you and all that. So, because all those can lead to more be part of the sales process. But of course, the beginning of that is


David Horsager: Equipped you know really salespeople are educators to it’s like if we’re not a fit. We don’t have either right


Milton Dodd: So,


Milton Dodd: You know, more than anything else, your, your, your consultant, you can consultative selling is probably the most thing best way I can say it. And the other thing is that when you have a process and you close business.


Milton Dodd: If you make it easy for them to do business with you, how likely is it for them to share your


Milton Dodd: Sure, who you are and what you do with others. Yep. And I think that’s the thing that people don’t understand some time is is it’s a transactional relationship, but it’s a relationship. Nonetheless, absolutely.


David Horsager: Love it. Well, you love this quote. Tell me, tell me how it inspires you and I even put it up, leadership, like a stone dropped in a body of water ripples well beyond the entry point.


Milton Dodd: Well, you think about it. I mean, you take a stone. I mean, you know, you live out there next to a lake, and you


Milton Dodd: Don’t know your kids and you’d probably throw rocks in the water, you know, once you throw that rocket and water is it ripples ripples.


Milton Dodd: North, South, East, and West. And I think leadership, good or bad can do just that, you know, when you are


Milton Dodd: I think of the leaders in my lifetime, the people that you know I think of Jan Hague, for example, that gave me the opportunity


Milton Dodd: Many years ago, and the ripple effect that she had with me is still lasting today it on how I approach things how I treat people how I lead


Milton Dodd: In, you know, Jan was one that lead with empathy and compassion, you know of a leader, but she was also very tough on us.


Milton Dodd: As we were going through this up the leadership program. And I just think that’s, that’s probably the genesis of where I came up with that, quote, because I think of man. The, the ripple effect of what she did with me.


Milton Dodd: Now affects how I lead and over the 24 years I was with that organization. How many people I’ve touched. So that’s what I that’s why I say it ripples well beyond the entry point because that entry point back in 1995 is still affecting people today.


David Horsager: And you know, we talked a lot about how you know how we are, how we lead ourselves matters like personally, how am I leading myself because we want to be, in essence, the same onstage and off you know you’ve got


David Horsager: Our beautiful kids over there and amazing wife. That’s brilliant.


David Horsager: And, you know, what do you do to kind of keep yourself imperfect as we are, how do you, how do you lead yourself personally what any ideas there.


Milton Dodd: You know, I think it gets back to what what are the it gets back to the outcomes. So again, input. Yeah, I think you said a lot, David, and yet we’re in your work input versus output.


Milton Dodd: And you know, I was reading an article by a guy named Jeff Perry recently he said your leadership style is made up of who you are.


Milton Dodd: How you grew up some of us grew up with. Very Meager beginnings, like I did some it without a mom without a mom and dad in a home, my mom died early on when I when I was younger and then some of us grew up with a family around us, but each eat no matter which way we grew up those those


Milton Dodd: That affects how you lead people and my outcome for my children is I want to be around for them because I didn’t have that when I was


Milton Dodd: When I was younger, so I didn’t have certain things when I was younger. So I want to strive to show them a different world than I had


Milton Dodd: Or I want to be there as a father because my father figure wasn’t in the picture with me. So it’s really about the activity that I do to really change the narrative around how I felt.


Milton Dodd: My what was missing in my leadership journey as I was younger to affect their leadership journey as their as they start to get into their formative years


Milton Dodd: I mean, I have a 17 year old. He’s a senior next year, he goes out into the world. And so I want to make sure that he how he treats people is indicative of how he learned how to be treated at home. I have a middle daughter who’s 13


Milton Dodd: I want to understand. I want her to understand that when she goes out into the world and meets a young man. I want her to see how


Milton Dodd: She should be treated by the way of my interaction with her and then I have a five year old, you know. And in the same way a five year old son, where I have to do the same thing with him as I did with my oldest son so


Milton Dodd: That’s, that’s probably the best way I’ll say it is leadership is still about activity and results, whether you’re a family man.


Milton Dodd: Or a family person or in a business or an entrepreneur or consultant. It doesn’t matter. Whatever your activity is is going to lead to some result. And it’s just a matter of what result, would you like it to be.


David Horsager: Tell us, you know, this brings up another PERSONAL SIDE OF YOU THAT I’VE SEEN be amazing. And that’s some of your


David Horsager: Giving work and mentoring work and I know you’re a part of an organization where you’re really not this where your interim operations director right now, but also really your, your work with young men and mentorship. Tell us a little bit about that and why you got involved.


Milton Dodd: Yeah, well, I’m not involved. This year, because my son is a part of the program. And that’s going to take a year off when their sons are in the program, but the program is called rice. The past that she


Milton Dodd: IS SPONSORED BY JACK and Jill has been around for I think 23 years now and for the time that I’ve been in Minneapolis back in Minneapolis is 2012 I’ve been involved in it.


Milton Dodd: Started out as a mentor and then over the last six years I was the coach here helping to shape the program with the help of a number of businessman without within the Twin Cities.


Milton Dodd: And I think the thing that again that drives me to be involved with things like that is somewhat of what I wish I had when I was growing up.


Milton Dodd: And then the other part of it is you want to ensure getting back to the guardrail analogy that these kids are college bound and you want to make sure ensure


Milton Dodd: That they have the opportunity to stay within those guardrails, and not fall off the cliff when they go to school and to make good decisions.


Milton Dodd: Around relationships to make good decisions around study habits to make good decisions around potentially a mate, that they choose. So


Milton Dodd: That’s that’s the reason I got involved is to just be that extra ear for those kids who have the opportunity, or will have the opportunity to affect the world in the future.


David Horsager: And I saw the graduation of your son and what an amazing powerful experience as far as how that whole you know program plays out and your


Leadership there.


David Horsager: You know this year has in the last year, you know, racial tension has been brought to the surface and again and you know and I know it’s it’s it’s always been here.


David Horsager: But what’s it as as a leader of color to all of us. What do we have to learn what could we learn as far as being high trust leaders in the midst of these tensions, how can we be high trust leaders.


You know,


Milton Dodd: I think the first step. And I put out a little video. Some time ago when everything kind of hit the fan. And as I said,


Milton Dodd: The goal is not necessarily to change the people around you. The goal is to change your perspective. And the only way you can change your perspective is by being involved in something that makes you uncomfortable.


Milton Dodd: And I think this flashpoint with the murder of George Floyd, it made a lot of people uncomfortable. And I think a lot of people stood up and said, I just had enough. I’ve had enough of this and


Milton Dodd: That has to come from inside. I don’t think there’s anything that a person can do to really change how you think that has to come from you doing some soul searching to say


Milton Dodd: I don’t like what’s going on and I, as a leader, whether I’m in a small business, a medium sized business, a large business. What can I do to effectuate change where I am today.


Milton Dodd: And if that means I need to be more culturally diverse and employing people i need to do that. And I need to do that with a level of intention.


Milton Dodd: If I need to stand up and have a conversation, whether I’m in the boardroom of the clubhouse because someone says something that’s not true, or someone says something that’s demeaning, I need to stand up and do that and plant that seed.


Milton Dodd: So I think that’s the difference is what do you what how do you want to be represented and then what are you going to do in order to represent yourself in a manner that makes you look in the mirror.


Milton Dodd: And feel like you’ve done something to effectuate positive change in your community and you don’t have to have a leadership title to do that. You just have to be a person who cares.


David Horsager: Oh. One thing I’ve seen you do is have healthy conversations like be willing to have tough conversations and do them well and with respect, you know, I, I’ve often said this. One of the most important attributes of a leader, actually, is the willingness to have tough conversations


Milton Dodd: Sure, but


David Horsager: Any tips for the leaders listening on how to have healthy difficult conversations


Milton Dodd: I think you just said it, you have to start


Milton Dodd: You know, when things get uncomfortable. And I’m going to just speak for me. Sometimes when things get get uncomfortable for me. I tried it, like, yeah, I’m not gonna deal with that right now. I’m going to shy away from that at this particular moment and I think


Milton Dodd: It’s time for people to stop shying away from those conversations and then just


Milton Dodd: Just taking a chance, leaning in. You know you and I have had some conversations around how things worked when when George floor was murdered.


Milton Dodd: And how I felt versus how you felt and how the people around us felt, and I think that just by starting at that point in having a conversation where there’s nothing to prove nothing to gain. We just want to talk.


Milton Dodd: And I often tell people that I’m mentoring is you’re over 21. Now it’s time to have adult conversations and adult conversation sometimes mean we’re going to challenge the status quo.


Milton Dodd: Or we’re going to lean in some topics that not only makes the person that we’re talking to uncomfortable. It might very well make us uncomfortable. Yeah.


David Horsager: I remember that we both said, well, how you feeling today and we wrote it down on a piece of paper and turn it over. We both said


David Horsager: misunderstood. Yeah.


So,


David Horsager: Well, let’s go to this you know you’re working with teams, you’re leading teams, you’ve certainly had leadership role here. How do you motivate others these days. What, what are some ways. If you’ve got to motivate a team or an individual, what do you do


Milton Dodd: Well, I think the regardless of where they are in their career. I think in a lot of cases leaders, for the most part are visionaries.


Milton Dodd: And I think true leaders really see things and others that they can’t very well see in themselves.


Milton Dodd: And the thing that I try to do whether I’m talking to a leader in a C suite or a entry level employee, it is if I see something one you have to ask for them. I think you should ask for permission to call it out or ask for permission to give them feedback.


Milton Dodd: And then once they’re okay. And they and you demystify what it is to give them feedback, then you call whatever it is that you see out of them.


Milton Dodd: And you say, you know, David, what I see in you is XYZ, David, what I see in you is the ability to really connect well with people and then you you and then you ask them for permission to come alongside them to help them to shape that particular


Milton Dodd: That to shape that particular attribute that you’ve called out of them. And I think that’s it. I’ve said it, you know, people ask me a lot of a lot of times that is


Milton Dodd: A leader should call out what they see, ask for permission.


Milton Dodd: Call out what they see and then come alongside that person to help them to shore up that opportunity that may have or to really strengthen that strength that they may not even be aware of.


Milton Dodd: A lot of times we as leaders don’t take the time to do that because we have all of these conflicting parties. We have to grow sales, we have to have this certain activity we have someone looking over our shoulder. For this we have cross functional teams we have matrix.


Milton Dodd: Organizations, we gotta, we gotta play well into the sandbox, but are at the end of the day, as a leader. Our job is to take good care of the people that we are a trusted to lead at that given moment.


David Horsager: You know, my wife calls that see the good say the good share the good


David Horsager: And, of course, that doesn’t get on the accountability side, but she said, we just, you’ve got to see the good more and then say the good in that person and then share that good, you know, so see the good say the good share the good is is can be a part of that I think


Milton Dodd: Yeah. You know, I think what my wife would also say is you can’t you can’t overthink or over overthink of what the how the person is going to respond because she would say there’s three R’s. They either receive it.


Milton Dodd: They rejected or repurpose it. And I think that’s so important to is that you know don’t hold back because you never know.


Milton Dodd: If you’re robbing somebody have an opportunity to get better at something or if you Robin and person have an opportunity to show up for strength shore up a string. So you want to be. You want to be bold as a leader and to help them find their true north


Yeah.


David Horsager: That’s great. What do you hope for in the future if you’re hoping thinking ahead. What’s your biggest hope for the future that you’re thinking about down the road.


Milton Dodd: You know, I, I really just hope that people


Milton Dodd: Embrace the opportunity that we’ve had to have a lot of self reflection through this unfortunate process called coronavirus


Milton Dodd: Or covert 19 and and to utilize those learnings as they come out of this environment in a positive manner to help others. I think that is so important. And in a lot of ways.


Milton Dodd: The examples that we’ve had for leadership should be the determinant of how we approach life, it should be the adverse it should be less, learn from what we see, and then become a better version of what we see.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Well, I would love to talk all day to you and I so appreciate you and I’m proud of just the work that you do and let’s go. It’s time for the lightning round. Are you ready for quick answers.


David Horsager: Okay. All right, here we


Milton Dodd: Are in and over again and let’s go


David Horsager: It wouldn’t go we’re getting into lightning round, it’s time. Milton Dodds


All right.


David Horsager: All right, so number one. What is your favorite current book or resource.


Milton Dodd: My favorite current, current book right now is the big leap.


Milton Dodd: You know by gay. Hendricks, it talks about, you know, conquering the hidden fear and taking life to the next level. Staying into your zone of genius. Check it out.


David Horsager: If you have any quick tip like hey leaders for productivity or for leading they could apply tomorrow morning. Any quick tip or idea that you haven’t shared so far.


Milton Dodd: If you have a thought. Write it down. I think you know I’m not the best edit. But I think Journaling is underrated.


David Horsager: Absolutely. All right. What’s something you can’t live without.


Golf


That’s true.


David Horsager: What is a quote you live by. You already shared that today the ripple effect. Any other quotes your big thoughts or banners that go through your head all the time to kind of keep you centered or motivated


Milton Dodd: It is, I don’t know if it’s a cool, but it’s a quote from a, from a song. So I guess it is a quote no complaints no regrets. I still believe in chasing dreams and placing bets.


David Horsager: There we go.


David Horsager: So, what a great conversation with Milton, how would you best be reached if we’re going to look out for Milton dot and the things you’re thinking about talking about writing about posting, where’s the best place to reach you.


Milton Dodd: You know, typically, if I’m posting something it’s mostly on Instagram. My name is it is what my name. Milton died or you can find me on LinkedIn and Milton DOD as well.


David Horsager: Do DD


David Horsager: DD Milton DOD


David Horsager: We own it with Dr. MD.


David Horsager: Message God


Milton Dodd: I’ve been mistaken for a doctor several times.


David Horsager: He fixes things and cultures and people, and definitely builds trust along the way so


David Horsager: For anything that was mentioned the book you mentioned some of those quotes in any of the the LinkedIn or Instagram. You can also go to trusted leader show.com everything will be there for you. Thank you so much for listening and we’ll see you next time, keep building trust.

Ep. 9: Justin Flom on Why You Should Chase Success Instead of Your Passion

In this episode, David sits down with Justin Flom, social media star, magician, and global entertainer, to discuss why you should chase success instead of your passions.

Justin’s Bio:
Justin Flom has a magical life. From touring with Country Superstars Florida Georgia Line and creating magic for companies and artists including Coca-Cola, Hobby Lobby, and the entire Seattle Seahawks team, John Legend, Nick Jonas, and Chrissy Teigen, Flom finds himself in front of as diverse an audience as any entertainer. His tours take him to buildings like Madison Square Garden to mega-churches across the US. Since 2020’s pandemic, Justin has been viewed over 4 billion times with a total career pivot to online content. In the weeks leading up to the election, Justin Flom was one of the top 5 Facebook pages with the highest worldwide reach even beating Donald Trump and Fox News.

Justin’s Links:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/justinflomofficial
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justinflom/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/justinflom/featured
Website: https://www.justinflom.com/
“Everyday Magic for Kids” by Justin Flom: https://amzn.to/3k2ZIHk

Key Quotes:
1. “Being a magician, you are an honest deceiver.”
2. “Nothing I create is precious.”
3. “Time is the most precious commodity I have.”
4. “You will be passionate about what you are successful in.”
5. “You want to be flexible with where you put the things that you enjoy.”
6. “Don’t break the chain.” – Jerry Seinfeld
7. “Finish bad songs.” – John Mayer
8. “I want to showcase real life.”
9. “You don’t know if you’re following your passion if that’s the right way. Really you should be following success.”
10. “Finish strong.” Mr. Sheahan
11. “Most people don’t care about you.”
12. “I don’t want to be the smartest guy in the room.”
13. “Burn the ships. If you have a backup plan, you’ll use it.” – Bill Arnold
14. “I would prefer to give the audience what they want.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big” by Scott Adams: https://amzn.to/3bfuR6w
“Maximum Entertainment 2.0” by Ken Weber: https://amzn.to/3s2WK8z
Book Stand for Desk: https://amzn.to/3dp26a7
“The Ride of a Lifetime” by Bob Iger: https://amzn.to/3k048yC

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I am I am so excited I say this a lot, but I am so excited about this guest.


David Horsager: He is a friend. I’ve known him for a long time. His name is Justin flom I got to tell you about him. You might have seen him on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. You might have seen him as a star and


David Horsager: Wizard wars or other shows his own, you know, YouTube TV show. This is fascinating right now. Justin was one of the top five Facebook pages with the highest worldwide reach even beating Donald Trump and Fox News.


David Horsager: weeks leading up to the election. So, it’s amazing. But you know what I like is Justin is the same as we say onstage and offstage, he’s a down to earth guy and a brilliant innovator and Justin. I’m just thrilled to have you on


Justin Flom: Thank you so much. Well, we go back decades, you and I, and this is going to be a very fun conversation. I’m looking forward to


David Horsager: It is, in fact, your dad credits me with helping lead up to one of your biggest mistakes in


David Horsager: Your career.


Justin Flom: Yeah, it is, it is your fault. That’s right.


David Horsager: I think, I think I was even named as the executive producer very kindly at the time on your show.


David Horsager: Their grandson, but boy, have you done a lot since then.


David Horsager: What let’s start out with what you know what are, what are three things everybody that’s listening today should know about Justin, they might know of you, or even see you but just


Justin Flom: Give us a


David Horsager: Sense, you know, Justin.


Justin Flom: That’s a good place to start. I guess the top three things are is at one point I would have considered myself a magician.


Justin Flom: And now, whatever. I consider myself doesn’t really matter. But during pandemic. I’ve had the chance to be in front of about 4 billion eyeballs.


Justin Flom: And that’s billion with a B which is just bonkers. To me totally crazy. And yeah, you might have seen me on daytime TV or late night TV or maybe even


Justin Flom: Man, I was in a Super Bowl commercial two years ago, leading up to this big reveal of a show called world’s best and was a finalist on that show which doesn’t matter as much because it never it tanked. It didn’t do any anything beyond the first season, but now I get to


Justin Flom: Create video content online and once pandemic is over, assuming everything goes back to normal. We’ll go back on the road where I work with companies like Walmart and Heineken Dollar General


Justin Flom: Benefit cosmetics, all of these different things where I create magic to share messages for companies and I also do the same thing in churches.


David Horsager: Sure, and you’re doing it online. You’re you’ve done it live. I’ve seen you. You’re amazing something nobody knows I guess I’ll reveal it today, but


Justin Flom: Yeah.


David Horsager: I talk about trust, and some of you don’t know that 20 some years ago. I actually was mentored by one of the best magical loosen teachers in the world. I did shows half times of NBA games and


David Horsager: 54 shows and in 27 days in Japan. At one point, but you and I were kind of interested in it in a similar time


Justin Flom: And I think it’s a it’s a fascinating part to the conversation because you have a background.


Justin Flom: Way, way back years ago as a magician. And same thing for me. But more recently, but, you know, since 2020 has been such a crazy year


Justin Flom: Magic has really taken a backseat, and the freedom that I feel is incredible. We haven’t talked at all during 2020 and and you I think you’d be fascinated to know because


Justin Flom: I mean, when I was sharing with you. I was obsessed with magic tricks card tricks deception, all of it and really almost to the point where


Justin Flom: I don’t care what else matters. I just wanted the best magic and that focus allowed me to do things like The Ellen Show and James Corden and and Late Night with Seth Meyers and things like that, but


Justin Flom: Since then kind of breaking away from just the magic and focusing on storytelling or entertainment or any of any of these other things that I’m doing now.


Justin Flom: The freedom is intoxicating. It is so cool. And so much fun to stretch my wings and do things beyond just magic tricks and it’s been quite a learning year. It’s very cool.


David Horsager: Well, I want. I want to hear more about that, but because I just kind of unveiled myself and nobody that I work with knows I ever did those things, you know,


David Horsager: That I don’t know if I was bored and some college calculus class. So I was started vanishing you know 50 cent pieces in my own hand or what


David Horsager: But I think it is interesting for both of us. Because you know out of the Institute, we do one of the biggest pieces of research on trust and leadership at least that North Americans global study


David Horsager: A whole we do here is you know our whole mission is about building trust and leaders and organizations we work with everything from corruption issues in East Africa to, you know, pro sports teams to business, but I think you and I do have a special angle on trust.


Justin Flom: And in fish to


David Horsager: People don’t get you’ll understand this, but actually to be a good magician. You have to be exceptional at building trust.


Justin Flom: Yes, very much so.


Justin Flom: Yeah, that’s true. You know a lot of people say that in within magic, the magic being a magician. You are an honest deceiver, because you tell the audience are going to lie to them and then you do


Justin Flom: It’s, it’s sort of a pact that you have with the audience where we’ve said, all right, so within these rules. I’m going to do a lot of lying and deception.


Justin Flom: And you’re going to trust me not to break kind of these rules that we have these unsaid unspoken rules of a magician with an audience. So once you’ve built up that trust.


Justin Flom: Then you can, you know, deceive for fun. It’s the same trust that we have built in with Hollywood or with TV where we understand


Justin Flom: That they’re going to deceive us with camera tricks and and you know we know that Steven Spielberg didn’t find dinosaurs. Those are fake and we trust him to take us through a deceptive.


Justin Flom: sort of journey for entertainment. So magic is kind of that. And I think what’s really fun is is seeing


Justin Flom: How its evolving with this new generation of social media where things are, are moving quite fast and the secrets of magic or maybe not quite as precious as they used to be certainly to me.


Justin Flom: Because the internet has just shown that the audience has they’ve had access to the secrets for a while and magicians are


Justin Flom: They still haven’t gotten the word I’m looking at the data and can see that and it’s changing the way that I’m performing magic.


Justin Flom: And I’m actually bringing in the audience, more into a trusting relationship with me where I’m exposing more and more secrets to them because I’m finding that that’s what the audience wants, and I would prefer to give the audience what they want.


David Horsager: I love that because, well, first of all, one thing I would just back up one step and then


Justin Flom: We’ll move


David Horsager: On from magic. But the backup one step is you know I think understanding illusions.


David Horsager: At least it’s psychology, so much of how you know you don’t actually float. Something you only appear to float something you don’t actually Vanna something you appear to vanish something so


David Horsager: But what I think it’s helped me do it, whether it’s in the boardroom or our company, whatever is actually see what actually can be trusted. And what can’t because you get so good at seeing what is actually deceptive so


David Horsager: That’s actually, you know, have people that joke with me that know me well from years ago, they say, oh, you used to be, you know, a magician illusionist now you know you you build trust for living right you know used to deceive.


Justin Flom: People are


David Horsager: Living. Now you do trust and most people don’t, you know, know that normal, but actually it’s helped because it’s so much psychology of reading people and helping them but but helping them, you know,


David Horsager: Building trust with them and and and nowadays. We’re trying to, you know, lower deception in the boardroom and politics and global governments.


David Horsager: And whatever is it we’re trying to go for authentic trust, of course, that’s what we’d call it


David Horsager: But I think what’s what I really love about what you’ve done is you have cared about the audience.


David Horsager: what the audience wants because you know there’s a lot of artists and you and I know them that are starving that want to


David Horsager: That’s, yeah. But it’s art. It’s whatever comes to me and you said, well, actually, I’ve got to care about what they want, I want to use my gifts and people that don’t know you. I mean,


David Horsager: You’re from a brilliant family, your dad is one of the most amazing innovators. I know. And you’ve gotten a lot of that gift as an innovator and of course he’s, he’s very successful in his in his own right.


David Horsager: And but but anyway, I think, tell me more about that because we talked about the marketplace actually is really valuable because we have to deliver that what they want. If we want to be around and use any of our gifts.


Justin Flom: This is the first year where I was really able to listen to what the audience wanted because I had to. And it was about following the data. You know what’s what’s working, what’s not, and


Justin Flom: That’s a big piece of what we try to do in business is is an artist wants to do what they want to do and I’m I would not consider myself an artist anymore.


Justin Flom: My job as an entertainer is to find out what the audience wants and to give it to them. So I’ve been doing more research this year into what the audience wants than ever before in my life.


Justin Flom: And what I found is, yeah, they don’t necessarily want magic tricks. The way that I thought that they did so that changed a big piece of how I’ve, I’ve worked things


Justin Flom: Well, they want to learn. That’s a big piece of it. People want to feel like they’re learning something, even if they even if in reality they don’t really want to learn. They want to feel like they’re learning


Justin Flom: That’s a big piece for the audience that at least on my side of things. So what I’ve done like one of my big hits this year with like 300 million views. Is this it looks like I get sawed in half. So you’d go, oh, that’s just the old classic illusion. But actually, no, we start


David Horsager: Next, you did get sawed in half, actually.


Yes.


Justin Flom: I what we actually did is


Justin Flom: We expose the secret at the top. So we let the audience in on I’m hidden inside of this secret compartment. These are fake legs. But when we move them this way.


Justin Flom: It looks as though I’m a whole person and then we’re going to, and the audience is suddenly like man, we’re learning


Justin Flom: Something here and then they are able to see. Oh man, we’re going to see this trick really mess with somebody. This is going to be fun.


Justin Flom: So that’s I think the audience likes that sort of thing, which is pretty different than what I was doing before, which was creating messaging for companies which I mean I’m still doing that, but just less so like after we finish up here. I’ll hop on a zoom call with


Justin Flom: A company that does antivirus computer software and I’m using magic tricks to communicate their message for the year, which is about time. So I’m creating magic with time and things like that. So it’s it’s juggling, a lot of different things.


Justin Flom: That all of the different stuff.


Justin Flom: I think you like


David Horsager: That, though, and I think


Justin Flom: Yes.


David Horsager: I will name i don’t know what i can or can’t name as far as the big, big, big brands. You’ve done some advertisements for some big ones that I know of that were amazing and and connecting but


Justin Flom: I think one thing that Coca Cola. One is interesting and


Justin Flom: And the way it came about is is interesting, just because it has to do with


Justin Flom: Building trust, but also just doing something for free, that you wouldn’t usually do.


Justin Flom: So I got to do an international ad campaign for Coca Cola, which was absolutely amazing. And the bit that they wanted is they wanted


Justin Flom: To do all of these magical changes revealing these Brand New Coke bottles that they were going to have internationally.


Justin Flom: But to do it without camera tricks. So the text played on the commercial. This was one that was big and movie theaters internationally and it would say there’s no camera tricks here. This is magician Justin flom and all that. But the reason that that Coca Cola getting came is because


Justin Flom: I was doing something as a charity for Walmart.


Justin Flom: I went down to Arkansas to visit with Walmart for free. Just out of the goodness of my heart just to hang out with the executives. Say hello to some of the employees and their big meeting.


Justin Flom: And I was there with Gina Davis and Nick Cannon, and just, just for fun and kind of as a favor, which is I’ve found nothing but success from doing


Justin Flom: Just a kind favor, even for a big corporation like Walmart and I got word from a very nice lady at the company. She said, Hey, you know, the Coca Cola executives are in town and they’re all in the front row.


Justin Flom: And I thought to myself, strategically great this morning. I’m only going to do Coca Cola magic tricks and I did.


Justin Flom: So everything I did use Coca Cola in some way and it was still very powerful magic still very good. But that meant that six months later, our phone rang from an advertising agency. And they said, Listen.


Justin Flom: We don’t know who you are but Coca Cola asked for you by name. And I got to do their campaign. After that, and it’s just because of a free favor that I was doing for Doug MacMillan and Walmart pretty amazing.


David Horsager: Something interesting about that I wrote about your dad in my first book to trust edge and talk about how he really built his business by giving


Justin Flom: As a generous given and talk


David Horsager: About him. And I think you you’ve taken that on yourself. You know, it’s, it’s pretty interesting.


Justin Flom: Yeah. Nobody can out give my dad that’s that’s 100%, true, true.


David Horsager: I think something interesting here.


David Horsager: Well, speaking of giving. I just have to put a shout out because Mike, I have a leadership group a mastermind kind of an accountability group. We’ve been meeting together for 28 years or whatever, since college, and 30 years and we meet at your family lodge up


Justin Flom: Yeah.


David Horsager: You know, on the lake in northern Minnesota. So, and that’s a gift. Your every time is like, Nope. GO TAKE THE GUYS MEET there, do your stuff. And that’s been one of the many, many huge gifts. So


David Horsager: With that, I’ll just tell everybody. Everybody should call Mr. Fleming use the CAP.


Notice


David Horsager: But I want to jump here. And I think, you know, what you doing now, at least tell me that this is true because we talked a lot about story how you build trust with


Story.


David Horsager: But you know you more and more, I think, at least in all of the stickiness you’re creating online really what you’re doing is inviting people into a story is that, is that what you’re trying to do. Is that what you’re doing. Tell me about that.


Justin Flom: Yeah, it’s I don’t know necessarily because the online thing moves so fast. Whatever I say today will be different tomorrow.


Justin Flom: Because everything is about what the viewer wants to see. So, you know, earlier this year the viewer wanted to see


Justin Flom: Science and different science experiments with me and my wife, and then later became you know puzzles were really big. And this is all for video content online that’s being passed around and


David Horsager: Well,


Justin Flom: By the way,


David Horsager: We just see the show notes trusted leader show.com we’re going to put links to this YouTube channel his


David Horsager: Law, everything you got to see some of this. If you haven’t seen all these videos that that’s where they are. Go ahead, Justin.


Justin Flom: Well, they’re very, they’re very silly videos and that’s that’s what I mean. Earlier, my, my content was more serious and and and really professional looking and and the public wants, you know, they wanted more.


Justin Flom: Authentic just a family at home hanging out, so that’s that’s what we’ve been doing


Justin Flom: But within each of these things, whether it be science or magic tricks or puzzles. The, the true subject of these things was story.


Justin Flom: And relationship. So my dad. He said that his business was all about relationships. It wasn’t about insurance sales, which he was the number one salesman in the company or is but


Justin Flom: That it didn’t have to do with prices or business that had to do with the way that he created relationship.


Justin Flom: And I think the same thing that people are peeking into these videos is about relationship they like my wife, they like me or or they don’t like us. And that’s a relationship to


Justin Flom: Whatever’s happening in these videos, there’s a relation that I have with the viewer and and and focusing on that is quite something. Yeah, it’s, it’s very interesting.


David Horsager: Well, how do you keep. I mean, this is something you kind of have created a dragon here that needs to eat or they’ll


David Horsager: Blow fire on. Yes. And, you know, and whether it’s your advertising. You know, people that will hire you. You know, you got to keep almost as an entrepreneur solo printer, you know, you’ve got to keep this engine going, how do you keep end of innovating today. How do you keep


David Horsager: Yes, creativity, how do you do that.


Justin Flom: It was it was a complete change of of mindset when your traditional magician, you would create a 12 minute act for your entire life, and you would perform it forever until you die.


Justin Flom: There was a great performer. His name is Marvin Roy. He went by the name Mr. Electric he created an act with light bulbs back when light bulbs are still a novelty and he would


Justin Flom: Pull 100 light bulbs out of his mouth and his wife would appear in a light bulb was great. And it was 13 minutes that took him around the world and he performed it everywhere.


Justin Flom: That doesn’t exist anymore. And that act that that this elderly gentleman created an untreated so preciously is not a system that can work in today’s day and age, so


Justin Flom: The, the complete shift was not to create anything and to be treated as precious nothing I create is precious. Now my job. So I’ve just today I’ve edited, I can look at my laptop and see 12345 pieces of content.


Justin Flom: And none of them are precious until hindsight shows later. Oh, this was something that you did. That was really good. It really resonated it made a lot of money. It had a lot of us.


Justin Flom: That’s going to stick around for a while. So my belief is that when the Beatles showed up into the studio to do Sergeant Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band.


Justin Flom: They just that was just what they were writing that day. They did not set out to create the greatest album of all time. They just showed up to work.


Justin Flom: So my job now is to show up to work every single day right something brand new. And this muscle has gotten really strong.


Justin Flom: Because I’ve freed myself from thinking that you can only create one thing for a term for your life. And you’re going to do that act forever.


Justin Flom: And now I’m like all right. Today I’m going to create three brand new pieces, new ideas, new little nuggets of something and I’m going to put them out and


Justin Flom: That brings the bar a lot lower, because you’re not trying to create something that is of lifelong value.


Justin Flom: And just because of that you will cross that bar and you will create things of lifelong value just by accident.


Justin Flom: So I sit and. And the other thing is I don’t waste time at all time is the most precious commodity. I have so like I finally convinced my wife yesterday.


Justin Flom: To bring on an assistant for her because she is used in a lot of my video content and just anything that someone else can do and that doesn’t require you or your personal imprint hire it out. Get rid of it, man. I was so


Justin Flom: I remember when you this is this is 20 years ago I REMEMBER WHEN YOU BROUGHT ON SOMEBODY TO ANSWER THE PHONE FOR YOU. I thought, wow, oh my goodness.


Justin Flom: Mr horse soccer has like a staff. This is the most impressive thing. And now here I am. Years later, I’m late to the game. I’m finally hiring on all of these things to give me more time doing what I’m supposed to be doing, focusing on my strengths


David Horsager: It’s pretty cool. I think that’s really cool. You know, I heard one time, way back when I started you know created my


David Horsager: First business 1999 but I heard someone say hire it done and and that can be a little bit arrogant sounding I had, you know, I started my first business so that dollar 4060 cents in my home account.


David Horsager: At since I can’t move back from being a direct this organization put everything into my first business lived in the basement of an older ladies home with my wife.


David Horsager: No windows bathroom or kitchen. We’d go upstairs and share her bathroom and kitchen and we lived there for two years. And that’s how we started. I felt like at the time. If I could make $700 a month, I could pay all my bills, you know,


David Horsager: Right, but


David Horsager: Even then, I just as soon as I could. I heard my first person and then I could leverage my Time, and I heard my next person and was what one I’ve, I’ve come to love giving people jobs.


David Horsager: I’ve also love building a team, we’re looking at a kind of for us at least six significant hiring the next few months.


Justin Flom: Yeah, so, but it’s it’s


David Horsager: It really does allow us to be our best and hopefully get people that they get to be their best in that role too.


Justin Flom: Because earlier you mentioned my biggest mistake and and and it’s your fault. And here’s what it was just for your listeners. This is, I think, will be interesting. So there’s this little sleepy showbiz town called Branson, Missouri.


Justin Flom: And in Branson. They’ve got 150 shows and they’ve got only 6000 people live there. So it’s very small town, but at the time I was there 8 million visitors a year were coming through.


Justin Flom: But still at 150 shows in town, each with, you know, there was, I think, 60 theaters and that’s like full fledged box office theater seats everything


David Horsager: Some of the most beautiful city in theaters in the world are there.


David Horsager: That’s right, people in them.


Justin Flom: That’s right man and the the Andy Williams theater is my favorite venue on the planet. I love it. I saw


Justin Flom: So many shows of him and Petula Clark and and Margaret. It was amazing. But I had my little show there and I could not make it work. I did five years.


Justin Flom: And the reason I couldn’t make it work is I was not allowed to focus on my strength because my strength was just putting on a good show.


Justin Flom: But instead, I had to focus on payroll and then concessions and then running a gift shop and then marketing and all of these other things because we didn’t budget. We didn’t have the deep pockets to hire any of that out. We had me and


Justin Flom: Two nice old ladies helping out who were very, very sweet, but it was it was a burden on our shoulders that we could not handle and then partner that with the town is very politically run and the, the older shows really get the things it’s a whole mafia type thing, they’re


David Horsager: Very different. The bread.


David Horsager: I haven’t heard that the brands and mafia. Yes. Yes. In fact, I was having a very nice conversation with


Justin Flom: A senator from that particular state and you know even she as a senator knew of the politics of the town. It was quite something. But I did five years. And then finally, just said we’re not. Why are we breaking our backs to break even.


Justin Flom: And and really, we weren’t breaking even we were losing. We ended up losing about $500,000 total


Justin Flom: And you know, we looked at that we said well we could have lost it in the market to great learning experience. I never again need to sell tickets to a stationary show


Justin Flom: And that allowed me to move to Las Vegas with my new bride and not have any desire to perform on the strip instead living in Las Vegas allowed me to create a brain trust of creators and thinkers


Justin Flom: And really it gave me the most cutting edge magic at the time, which allowed me to get on LM and and create this TV show called wizard wars and all that, because


Justin Flom: The smartest brains were two blocks away from my house and we were always spending time together, always working always creating and that was the strength to focus on


David Horsager: Well, I think that speaks to another one, and that is team, you were really good at getting around the right people building relationship with the right people authentically and giving in those relationships.


David Horsager: I’m going to end that you know you said the word authenticity while ago, we’re big on that, hey,


David Horsager: Gina studio four or five here can’t is my producer can I do one that shows you in it. Oh, there is


David Horsager: Can’t add 10 smart and he’s producing the show. So I just want to be like if you have a question, just shout it out. Kent and you


David Horsager: Love right and he’s got a mic.


David Horsager: Right there, he might jump in and say something to


Justin Flom: That’s great, please.


David Horsager: About your generation. So


David Horsager: You know, who knows what what he’ll come up with as we go. He might jump right in.


David Horsager: But let’s go to that, you know, what did you learn whether it’s you learn some things from your kind of, you could say failure there. But these shows. I mean, what I’m interested


David Horsager: Also in, you know, we talked about trusted leaders and trust is a long term thing, and you’ve built trust because you’ve you figured a plan a routine for creativity. Are there other habits or routines that you have that just kind of


Justin Flom: Hundred percent


David Horsager: What are some of those because what you do is you just consistently. Now you’re part of Ellen. She has you on off and now you’re you know you have some of these things that


David Horsager: But some of these things. Yeah. Job Is It might be a one and done, but you have to keep at it right


David Horsager: What are some yeah life personal or not.


Justin Flom: So the routine that I think is helping me a lot right now is being able boy I get so distracted.


Justin Flom: I don’t know if it’s actual add or just a creative mentality. But if I’m working at my computer as soon as something has to load or there’s a little bit of time where I can’t be moving


Justin Flom: What I’ve done now and I’ll even show you if you’re watching this on camera. I’ve got this this book stand and this sits next to my laptop with the book, open, it’s, it’s got pages specially


Justin Flom: This. And speaking of failure. This is an incredible book by Scott Adams, how to fail at everything and still win big an incredible book really about not it’s funny.


Justin Flom: It’s about not following your passion and it’s changing my life right now. I really love it because it’s it’s about following what is working and what’s successful rather than following your passion.


Justin Flom: And that’s where I felt the most freedom is is in creating a system of success, rather than wanting to do what I want, which is quite a selfish thing that US quote unquote artists have have done for years. So that’s a new habit.


Justin Flom: I like


David Horsager: To call that out because I think that’s a problem for people, they think, well, I should just do what I want. I’m only authentic if I do what I want for myself that makes me feel good. And I think that’s not it. We have to think about what did they need


David Horsager: What would help them. What do they want. And so, by the way, we’ll look it up, and maybe get a link to that if you’re just listening to the podcast. It’s a really cool idea. The, the little stand you have there to read, we know


Justin Flom: Yeah, it’s great for my job because my job requires a lot of


Justin Flom: Uploading and waiting. So I finished the video set it to upload. I got five minutes to sit here where if I try to start another project, then I’m never gonna then


Justin Flom: Then, everything’s going to be messed up. So I have to sit here. Well, this thing uploads, how am I going to be productive. I’m going to do this reading and the real synopsis of the book is to say


Justin Flom: You’re worried that you’re not going to work with passion. If you’re not working at what you’re passionate about. But I promise.


Justin Flom: You will be passionate about what you are successful in. So if you start finding success in


Justin Flom: I don’t know, managing a plumbing company you’re going to be passionate about it because it’s it’s bringing in money and you’re finding success at it so


Justin Flom: That’s, that’s a new total freedom for me is to be passionate about something that’s successful and to chase that rather than to chase some desire that I had when I was 10 years old that I never let go of


David Horsager: I love that. I love it and so on. The you know you’ve got a plan there for learning. I mean, we know great leaders are great readers. We’ve heard it a lot. I remember


David Horsager: Not too many years ago looking at the data and finding the number you know average american watches 1200 and 87 I still have in my head 1200 and 87 hours of kind of junk TV, which is kind of what you create right now. Just kidding, but


But


Justin Flom: But it’s like


David Horsager: Watch TV. That’s kind of entertaining or whatever value and the average American reads and we know you can gain a lot of reading, right, especially a good, a good book. And the average American reads


David Horsager: In their lifetime. Not annually 12 underneath them in their lifetime as far as books over it was over 200 pages so Goodnight Moon to your kids doesn’t count. Right.


David Horsager: So it right average number of books and American reads in their lifetime after their formal education, whether that was a PhD or high school degree. What do you think the average is


Justin Flom: So I’m not going to give away the answer, because I know the answer to this, because I’ve read your books. Okay, the answer is


David Horsager: One and is that not incredible it’s


David Horsager: One. And so what happens is you’ve got people not learning. You got people not growing and it’s it’s getting this this mushy kind of mindset that isn’t growth oriented and I’m proud of you and seeing you there, you know, keep keeping learning, but it is sad.


David Horsager: It’s really sad news for


David Horsager: An author, by the way, that’s bad news or not.


Justin Flom: It’s bad news for an author. It’s why I haven’t written a follow up to either of my books because I did the book thing. Happy to have done it. I don’t need to do anymore because yeah there’s, it’s, it’s


Justin Flom: That’s, that’s a difficult outlook for an author, but for me I just, there’s no time in the day. I don’t know how


Justin Flom: I don’t know how people do it. I have no idea how people find the time in the day to get everything done because I could work 18 hours every single day and still have things to do at the end of the day.


Justin Flom: Which is an amazing thing for my job that that I it’s up to me what how much money I want to make for the day because I can just continue on it. So then that


Justin Flom: I have to sit down with my wife and and really try to balance out. What’s the. How much time should I work. How much time should I take off for the family. I don’t have the answer to these questions yet. I’ll let you know.


David Horsager: I don’t either.


David Horsager: I’ve got teenagers and I don’t have them any other habits or routines that you have just in life that that make you better. I mean, you still as healthy as can be. I know your wife looks healthy, you’ve got, you know, kiddo haven there and you got like life is going crazy. What


Justin Flom: You know, yes.


Justin Flom: It all has to do with flexibility, it’s, it’s, I want


Justin Flom: You know, if I told you. Hey, you get to take a nap today. You’d be like, Oh man, I’d love a nap. But if I told you your nap was only going to be an hour before bedtime. Let’s kind of worthless. Like, that’s not a


Justin Flom: Because the you want to be flexible with where you put the things that you enjoy otherwise you might not find enjoyment in them a fine meal is only good if you’re hungry.


Justin Flom: So the flexibility in my life has been very important to just work out whatever I can do to be flexible because I know that happiness will come from myself and from my bride when we have the flexibility so


Justin Flom: We have been very intentional about creating a life that is when I was when I used to do missions trips. When I was younger, with my church, the pastor who was


Justin Flom: Who would take us around and we do a dozen shows in a day. We jump around from orphanages to parks to soccer stadiums doing shows all over


Justin Flom: Peru, Kenya, Egypt, and he would, he said, folks, what I need from you today and he was talking to the crew. He’s talking to choir and magic team children’s team. It’s a rigid flexibility.


Justin Flom: We have a plan, but I need rigid flexibility from you here because things are going to change things are going to happen and when you hold all those things loosely


Justin Flom: And it’s another thing that came from my dad when you just understand that life is going to throw curveballs at you daily


Justin Flom: Then you don’t freak out when they come because you just know that they’re, you know, oh, well, this is the curveball for today. All right, good. And you just have to be rigidly flexible.


Justin Flom: With it, and then I think the other. I think the other habit which I’ve kept up now for the last two years is writing every single day. Now that’s important for me and my job.


Justin Flom: Because I’m creating content. So I need ideas. I need you know funny things to communicate or or whatever. But whatever you’re doing, I, you just have to


Justin Flom: Do the new thing every single day. So Seinfeld put it to. He had his, his way of thinking about it was perfect for me because I’m sober now 12 years


Justin Flom: So, and the way sobriety works for me. Is it gets easier. The longer it’s been because I’ve built up this


Justin Flom: Amazing point system of 12 years do I want a drink more than I want to have this amazing accomplishment of 12 years of sobriety. No, I don’t want that more I want I want this more


Justin Flom: So so Seinfeld’s routine was called don’t break the chain, which was wake up in the morning.


Justin Flom: And right, doesn’t matter what you write. You just gotta right and then you get to go to your calendar, you put an X through that day in the calendar.


Justin Flom: Next day right and put an X in the calendar, pretty soon you’re going to have a chain of x’s in your calendar.


Justin Flom: Where you’ve written every single day. And what’s really exciting is you don’t break the chain and pretty soon you’ll have a year where every single day you’ve written and I’ll tell you the truth.


Justin Flom: I’m not a very good writer. I’m not the best, most creative guy.


Justin Flom: I just in my batting averages for writing, whether it be jokes or ideas or tricks or whatever my batting average is pretty low, but I’m going to show up to work more than you.


Justin Flom: And that’s why I’m gonna win because that’s that’s the secret to it. I don’t think Seinfeld is the best comic of all time by his brain. He’s the best comic of all time for his work ethic.


Justin Flom: That is a good


David Horsager: That’s a true statement. Do you have a certain time that you like you always do it at this time. Like, do you have any other rhythms that make that happen, or is it just like I’m not gonna go to bed before I do


Justin Flom: Yeah, it would be. I’m not going to go to bed. That was what it was. I’m, I’m working on the time thing, because I would really like to know what I’m going to do 9am on December 17 2021 but i don’t i don’t know that I wish I did.


Justin Flom: But for right now. What it is is just, I’m not going to sleep until I finished this task, which isn’t the healthiest way to do it.


Justin Flom: But what it did mean is that there was times I remember I was up in Canada. I was on the road. We didn’t show in the morning, we drove to the next show.


Justin Flom: We get there. I’m not pulling into my hotel until 2am and I hadn’t written a page yet that day. No. Well, I’ve got three months at that point built up of days writing


Justin Flom: I don’t want to throw that away. So I quick spent 45 minutes writing before I went to bed because I would rather have have written match.


Justin Flom: The discipline.


David Horsager: What’s right it, you know, what is it do you give yourself a break at one sentence one page or five pages. I know for for Rory Baden, he made it, you know, he made it four and a half years, and his was basically it’s 12 minutes, but all I had to do was I just got to break a sweat. I’m gonna


David Horsager: I’m gonna work out every day.


David Horsager: It might be six minutes, but I gotta break a sweat. It’s got to be a real sweat. So I can, I can always go to the gym I can do sit ups in my hotel room, whatever. But I gotta break a sweat. So four and a half years.


David Horsager: And you know he’s a good friend of mine and you wrote you know procrastinate on purpose. And so, and you take the stairs and some great books and but but I think it’s interesting, he just he knew what that meant.


Justin Flom: What, what’s it mean to you right for me it was a page, it was just get a page of ideas down


Justin Flom: And even if they were bad. And really, man. I heard a great piece of advice from john mayer where he said write bad songs or sorry, finish bad songs and what he was saying.


Justin Flom: Yeah, he was speaking at Berkeley and a kid asked, you know, he’s like Mr. Mayor, what, what do you do if all of your songs that you’re writing sound the same.


Justin Flom: And he said, Well, are you finishing the songs and the guy kind of sheep asleep. He was like, well, no, he says, you’re not writing songs that sound the same. You’re trying to finish one song.


Justin Flom: Right. The bad song. Get it out of your system and then move on, you know, so for me.


Justin Flom: If the thought is running around up here. I gotta get it down on the paper. And if it sucks. That’s fine. Now it’s out. Okay.


Justin Flom: And and you have to get the bad ones out because otherwise you’re, you’re going to constantly be revisiting it in your head. And I thought that was pretty good.


Justin Flom: Piece. So now I treat it that way for videos like I will just do the bad video because you don’t know you have you have no idea if it’s good or bad, just get it out. Get it out of your system.


David Horsager: So you got it. You know, this is fun. It’s so fun to see how you’ve grown up to because you like, but let’s let’s just take you have a massive amount of influence today. Some people would say, leadership is influence


Justin Flom: We believe


David Horsager: That something to do with it, too. But, but with influence comes massive responsibility, I believe, of course, some people don’t believe that. But what do you, you know, when you think of a key to leadership, you’re leading now or at least you’re influencing a whole lot of people


David Horsager: Do you feel any weight of responsibility. You certainly bring a lot of joy you bring a lot of


David Horsager: Fun. But is there any framework for responsibility that you bring to this role.


Justin Flom: You know my dad was talking about it with me and he’s, he would like me to use the influence for good sooner. Like, like, get on it right now. This all feels very new to me.


Justin Flom: Because, well I was successful for the last decade, you know, I was on tour with Florida, Georgia line doing arenas like Madison Square Garden. It’s probably the highlight of my life up until this year and


Justin Flom: And, you know, talk shows and TV shows and all of that. But it still felt like I was building. It didn’t feel like I had any sort of real audience because in in the modern world of the algorithm, you have to earn the audience’s eyeball every time.


Justin Flom: It kind of is this trick that the big social media companies played on us where we all consolidated our following or our fans to these pages.


Justin Flom: Thinking that we would have access to them like an email list and then


Justin Flom: So, you know, you’re a company like Coca Cola, you get all of your fans to like your Facebook page by putting like us on Facebook on your TV commercials.


Justin Flom: So you got millions of likes. Now you post a commercial and it goes to 20,000 people. Well, why is that, well, Facebook is holding your fans hostage essentially


Justin Flom: Only going to show them what you’re creating if it’s good, well that’s that’s a totally different.


Justin Flom: Different things so I have never felt to answer your question. I’ve never felt like I have the large audience to influence because


Justin Flom: Each time I step out to put something in front of the large audience. It’s so dependent on the algorithm. So I don’t know yet what I’m going to do with said influence. I know the important things are to me is faith. Faith plays an enormous role in my life and


Justin Flom: I think there was one way that I saw it played out that I really liked. So this was right after my TV show wizard wars. So the whole season was up on


Justin Flom: ITunes, I believe, and here’s, here’s how the show when is we would create


Justin Flom: Interesting magic tricks out of ordinary objects, kind of like Iron Chef or chopped where they give the cooks, you know, random ingredients and say make a meal, we would do that. But with magic.


Justin Flom: And it was on the Sci Fi Channel and Penn and Teller or celebrity judges. It was really cool and I was the lead wizard on the show so


Justin Flom: This lady who was stuck in her hospital bed. She couldn’t do anything all she had was her iPad. She binge, the whole show watch through all that and


Justin Flom: I’m happy to say I was her favorite so she goes and she finds me on social media, and she sees in all of my BIOS on Twitter and Facebook and stuff. The words Christ follower.


Justin Flom: And she didn’t really know what that meant. But she knew she liked


Justin Flom: Everything I did on TV and then she liked everything she was seeing online with this family dynamic and these backyard parties that I would throw for friends.


Justin Flom: And she’s like, I don’t know what this guy has but it’s something special. So she calls the hospital Chaplain over


Justin Flom: And says, what is this mean Christ follower. What is this and there that hospital pastor led her to faith in Jesus Christ.


Justin Flom: Now that’s an amazing thing for me because that’s something that’s important to me and I didn’t do it. I had the part I had in it was just by pointing with the lifestyle.


Justin Flom: To that and you can look at that for anything that you have, whether it be just a


Justin Flom: Morality, or a faith in in a particular higher power or sobriety or anything like that. If you’re living out that attractive life and you are shining bright within it.


Justin Flom: That’s the influence that you can have. And that was for me a really cool story she wrote me a nice letter and thanked me for it and and here it all happened without my knowledge. Well,


David Horsager: That’s a great. That’s great story. So what’s what’s what’s next for you, what’s what’s exciting up up up in front of you, these days.


Justin Flom: Boy, I don’t know, it’s a we don’t know what’s going to happen with live entertainment in the future. We just have no idea.


Justin Flom: You know, I was watching my buddy Justin Wellman do a live zoom show. And it was amazing. He showed me a setup and he’s got the amount of re education that I went through back in March to creating online content.


Justin Flom: My buddy. And he has a Netflix magic show. So he’s full on magician still and he he went through the same amount of re education.


Justin Flom: But for to become a broadcaster so suddenly now he’s got a standing desk giant monitor showing all the zoom rooms that he’s doing. He’s got video switcher three camera setup. It looks kind of like the room that you’ve got there for all of this. It’s, it’s incredible.


Justin Flom: I, I could see something like that being an option. But I think the way the future’s looking for me as I am just having so much fun creating silly content online that the audience.


Justin Flom: Following the whims of an audience, the freedom that I felt writing these sorts of things has been a lot of fun and


Justin Flom: And we’re still pitching TV stuff. There’s, there’s some fun scripted television stuff in the works that still have a one in 100 shot of going someplace, but you know 100 is is actually pretty good odds and TV. So we’ll see what


David Horsager: What do you, where do you get inspiration. These days, like


David Horsager: You gotta stay inspired and


Justin Flom: Yeah, the inspiration comes from my little girls. I got a four year old and I got a one year old and they said Haven and holiday we call her Holly and and it is just


Justin Flom: So much fun seeing them go through stages of life. Now that I remember going through when I was, you know, a little kid, so that that inspires me the most. And I want to, I want to showcase


Justin Flom: Real life in that way. That’s, that’s a really fun thing. And the next thing that inspires me is just doing new things, man. I think variety is the spice of life. So the fact that I get to do a different thing every single day.


Justin Flom: Is just an absolute blast because I figure it goes back to what I said at the beginning, I don’t have to do the same magic show every single day. Now I get to create something new every day and knowing that that’s possible.


Justin Flom: Is and and I don’t know why magicians don’t think it’s possible, because you look at scripted television, you look at comic strips. You look at almost any other art form.


Justin Flom: And you have to create it in a serial fashion new every single day. So that’s what inspires me is doing something new every single day and just building that muscle.


David Horsager: I love it. Is there anything if you’re going to give you know we talked about doing the work here. You’re doing the work. You’ve got to do the work. You don’t get successful, you don’t have an influence you don’t lead well unless you do the work.


David Horsager: Is there anything else I know the habit for you, probably the biggest one is writing every day.


David Horsager: Is there any other tip or advice that you’d say for just everyone every leader every person to be more productive or effective would be like, this is something you could do every day that would, you know, could help anybody


Justin Flom: Yeah, that’s uh yeah you know


Justin Flom: Exercise because and and that’s the most boring sounding one people, man. The there’s people who clicked off the podcast right now. As soon as I said that


Justin Flom: Because they’re like oh come on the endorphins that are released when you exercise, they give me such a productive mentality, it, it is. It’s like a magic trick.


Justin Flom: Your brother, by the way, your brother.


David Horsager: Puts both of us to shame we don’t want to stand next to him with his shirt off but


Justin Flom: He’s got some great tips you talk about a guy that’s created incredible


David Horsager: Business and light and, you know, but what’s your favorite exercise. What’s something you can you do. Are you like to do


Justin Flom: I just like lifting. I like any kind of thing. I hate cardio and


Justin Flom: All and I like finding research that says that cardio isn’t good for you, even if I’m like, I’m like, even if I’m looking at you know bunk research. I’m like, Yeah, I just want to lift.


Justin Flom: Because what I do is I is I THROW IN. I DON’T THROW IN MUSIC I throw in podcasts Ektron talk radio


Justin Flom: And I’m listening to that and I get those endorphins going and now I feel ready to conquer the world. So I tried to do that in the morning.


Justin Flom: And then go and be productive after that because listen, whether you’re an author, a writer, whether you’re a leader in your particular business.


Justin Flom: Or whether you’re an employee with a boss. All of us have tasks to do during the day that if we come at it with ingenuity and creativity, it will get the attention that that you want so that you can move up. And the other thing I’ll say that is interesting is


Justin Flom: Is really about following success, instead of your passion. So I’ve kind of reached the top of this ladder on the social media landscape because


Justin Flom: Like you said at the beginning, the in the week leading up to the election my Facebook page had higher reach worldwide than than Donald Trump and Fox News Forbes covered it and Facebook released it and that’s crazy.


Justin Flom: And if if I had been climbing the ladder. I wanted to, which was a ladder of a famous magician with TV specials every year, you know, and we both know


Justin Flom: One particular individual who had that all throughout the 80s and I wish he was a nicer individual, but that doesn’t matter. But I climb that ladder.


Justin Flom: I thought, I thought I was climbing the ladder of famous TV magician, and I get to the top. And I’m standing on the building at the top of this ladder and I look around and I realized


Justin Flom: I’m not there. I’m actually at the top of this new social media game sort of thing. What, what does that look like and I look across the street.


Justin Flom: At the ladder. I thought I was crawling climbing of TV magician and that building is demolished doesn’t even exist anymore. So it’s really good that I was climbing this ladder over here because I’m happier for it.


Justin Flom: I don’t know, it’s just a word picture I like about you don’t know if you’re following your passion, if that’s the right way really you should be following success.


David Horsager: Yeah, we’re gonna ask. We’re gonna ask you just for the fun that he can edit anything so. So Justin I you know I’m


David Horsager: Big on research big on you know I sit on the board of a university. And of course, you would probably say, hey, forget college. What say you,


Justin Flom: I like my doctors and my lawyers to go to college, but beyond that most people we live in just the information age and you can learn anything outside of school.


Justin Flom: I think if it was 30 years ago, different story. But what universities and colleges look like today, I think you’re going to go into a lot of debt when you


Justin Flom: Win, more likely, you could learn everything you need to know at a trade school or just online, so I don’t encourage many people to go to college, depending on what they want to do.


Justin Flom: Myself, I skipped college and immediately went to losing money on a theatre in Branson, Missouri.


Justin Flom: And what I ended up four years ahead of my competition because I didn’t go to college, but the main thing was is a gentleman in Minneapolis there. He told me a great piece of advice. This is Bill Arnold an actor and comedian.


David Horsager: I called him. Yes.


Justin Flom: I know how grey.


Justin Flom: Yes. So Bill told me burn the ships. He said, if you have a backup plan, you’ll use it. But if you burn the ships and and show business or whatever is the only way to make it work.


Justin Flom: Then, then you’ll make it work. And that’s kind of what I did is, is really that only only plan, but I’ve modified the plan. Since and seeing that it doesn’t have to be magic that’ll work. It can be any kind of entertainment, but I’m making work.


Justin Flom: Yeah, can burn the ships, they’ll learn. Oh, by the way, I’m ahead.


David Horsager: Yeah, Bill Arnold, you know, became very successful they produced triple espresso the show and had shows go


David Horsager: Over the world at one point he’s a he’s on a radio station as a host. And he also still performs and what it wasn’t inspiration to many, but


David Horsager: Um, yeah, I love it. It’s interesting because, you know, you aren’t the only one. Your sister BECAME, YOU KNOW, SHE SKIPPED college right. She said, I’m making


Justin Flom: She was


Justin Flom: She was in it. She was over at crown and she got an offer from the University of Minnesota to shoot a magazine.


Justin Flom: She’s a photographer and show and she saw that as a sign of, like, you know what, I don’t think I need what’s here, I’m just going to go for it and


Justin Flom: Within the year she had booked six figures of weddings and portrait shoots and different things.


Justin Flom: totally changed her life, being able to drop out of college and do that and and then in the same way.


Justin Flom: We her best friend has dropped out of her regular job and started creating content with my sister and myself for these online things. So I’m all into dropping the traditional job or education and going into the unique. I love it.


David Horsager: There you go. Well, both ways can work, I think, and certainly there’s truth in that, so that the number one takeaway, I would say is keep on learning, keep on innovating.


David Horsager: Well, I could talk to you all day. We got to have you back sometime. But we got to get to the lightning round here so you can


Justin Flom: Answer.


David Horsager: As quick as you can.


David Horsager: Let’s, let’s try to go. One of you might already answered. I’m going to answer it again in case you have a second book. But let’s go for what’s your favorite book or resource right now.


David Horsager: We talked about Scott Adams, if that’s the one. But maybe there’s a secondary favorite book or resource podcasts something right now.


Justin Flom: Yeah, that would be the one. And if you’re in speaking or entertainment at all the other would be a book called maximum entertainment and really is about


Justin Flom: Bringing a professional mentality to speaking and an entertaining. It’s by a friend of mine named Ken Weber and he just rewrote it


Justin Flom: You know, you wrote about 20 years ago, he just read it at all with brand new things coming from internet and social media maximum entertainment mess with people. If you’re into any sort of public work like that.


David Horsager: We just did a different podcast we talked to the one of the greatest speech coaches of all time. Patricia Fripp, but we were talking about how Warren Buffett said you


David Horsager: He said, If you want to increase your value your worth by 50% get good at communicating


David Horsager: Or speaking that’s, you know,


David Horsager: Key way that motivate inspire get anything done. It doesn’t matter if it’s our five year old teenager or boardroom right so let’s do the next one, what anything. You can’t live without.


David Horsager: Something yes without


Justin Flom: This cup of coffee right here. I cannot live without the coffee and then that’s, that’s it.


David Horsager: All right. What if you have any like you’ve had you’ve given several quotes. Any quotes you can live by or any thoughts that you think this I want this is my mantra or a quote or thought that I live by.


Justin Flom: On Boy, what a


Justin Flom: finish strong. I had a teacher in high school named Mr. She and he’s passed on, we lost him to cancer. But he had just about finishing strong man. There are there are days when you’re lagging and you’re like, I’m not in but if I can just power through and finish strong


David Horsager: That’s it goes from days, it goes for the years, it goes for life.


All right.


David Horsager: What is your favorite. You know, my favorite food is ice cream. What is your favorite ice cream flavor.


Justin Flom: Man. So that’s your favorite food, boy.


David Horsager: Well, what’s your go to your favorite food. If you don’t like ice cream.


David Horsager: But, you know,


David Horsager: At your parents place this reminds me right before code.


David Horsager: I was flying. I had to speak and Marco island.


David Horsager: And I had to


David Horsager: I had to. Speaking of generosity, your dad again. So I had Isaiah with map and bring one of the kids and we just said, are you there. And yeah, we’re here. Come on over. So, so he gives it. What is that 1940 Porsche or whatever he said.


David Horsager: Yes, that with your son my son’s just getting his license. You know, he says, so we we drive around and go over to get my favorite brand of ice cream. If it’s not homemade vanilla we drive over and get something you can only get in the South, not in Minnesota. Unfortunately, but Blue Bell.


David Horsager: Ice old fashioned middle and then we went back to your parents. After that, and we had more Blue Bell ice cream because your mom said, Let’s all have it out of the bucket and she had like three different buckets. So


Very


Justin Flom: Surprisingly, my you show your favorite ice cream is only available in the South. My favorite ice cream is only available in Minnesota and Wisconsin and the Dakotas.


Justin Flom: Which is New York City vanilla New York vanilla and it’s just it’s by Kemp’s and you can’t get it anywhere else. It’s just my favorite. It’s such a disappointing thing that I can’t get it out here in Las Vegas.


David Horsager: It’s got that golden tinge to write


David Horsager: That. No, I love it. Well, this has been an amazing conversation can anything you wanted to just say, but I’ve got one more question to end with


Justin Flom: In a moment. Yeah, please.


David Horsager: I’m going to give a recap, Ken. What are you thinking, okay, I was just gonna, I think, a question I had was


David Horsager: You know you’ve been very innovative, especially this year as a lot of people have tried to because of coven


David Horsager: So I was just wondering if you had any kind of advice for people who maybe feel a little more stuck. They don’t know exactly how to like pivot from where they are. They’re kind of what they’re doing isn’t working. Do you have any kind of tips or advice to be


David Horsager: Yeah, get past that mindset of not wanting to change.


Justin Flom: Gosh, I wonder if this is the right way. This probably isn’t the right way to say it, because this is going to sound unkind, but what it is is that


Justin Flom: Most people don’t care about you.


Justin Flom: This is the way I’ll say it and let me clarify what that means, which is just you imagine whatever risk you’re taking whatever silly thing you’re doing whatever new pivot, you’re trying


Justin Flom: That the entire world is looking at you and judging you. And the truth is, is they’re not thinking about you at all. They’re too busy thinking about themselves in their own pivot.


Justin Flom: So that understanding that really freed me up at the beginning of coven to make a hard pivot and I mean like a really hard pivot. If you were to watch content that I created.


Justin Flom: In November of 2019. It was my most artistic creation. I’ve ever done it with something called Magic mixtape. I wrote music for this thing.


Justin Flom: And created original magic and it has an average watch time of 20 SECONDS, AND THIS IS FOR A 20 minute piece of content. So that’s what we would call a failure, even though it’s my proudest


Justin Flom: Artistic little piece and then just four months later, I’m doing what some people would say is the most artistic thing I’ve ever done. But I’m seeing the most success.


Justin Flom: And that was only possible because in this hard pivot. I did not think at all about what people thought about me.


Justin Flom: And and really I’ve zeroed in all of my focus into my immediate trust group of friends and family. And if I oh I only care about what they think.


Justin Flom: I it’s it’s really an us versus them sort of mindset now because I it’s it’s so it’s so new to not care what the magic community thinks or to not care what


Justin Flom: The elites think and to really only focus on. Here’s my trusted group of advisors and here’s my family. What do they say about what I’m doing right now. And if I’m good there that I’m good.


David Horsager: I love that. You know what else I love about that, by the way. Did you have a follow on with that. Okay. I think what I like about that is that you don’t care what anybody else thinks, but you do care what some people think


David Horsager: And that yes, you have some accountability.


David Horsager: I think there’s some renegade and they just kind of selfishly, or actually in authentically say I don’t care what anybody thinks. Yeah, you do.


Justin Flom: Yeah, but


David Horsager: That you care. The key there is caring about with the right people think. So having an accountability a trusted advisor having your family having you I often think what would grandma. Think about this.


David Horsager: You know, sure, like, well that that helps me think about it. Right. But I’m not caring about what they think. Yeah. I love that so


David Horsager: This is full of all kinds of what a great conversation. They’re just so many things here. I mean, I just wrote some things down as we’re talking. Most people don’t care about you. I think that’s a truth success from kindness wins.


David Horsager: They, they want the when talking about the audience the audience wants story relationships and authenticity must not create anything as precious


David Horsager: You got to do the work daily time is the most precious commodity. These are just a few of the key takeaways today if you failed because you couldn’t focus on your strengths. At first, that was in Branson rigid flexibility right every day.


David Horsager: Variety to doing new things sparked your creativity.


David Horsager: Or there’s a whole lot more finish the bad songs finished strong and this I’ll leave with this one. Don’t break the chain.


David Horsager: That’s right, the habits, but I before I get to our final question, where can everybody find you, Justin.


Justin Flom: Right now, most people would find me on Facebook. Facebook is where the wealth of content is going


Justin Flom: You can just search my name. Justin flom there. I mean, we’re posting, not just my own content, but I’ve got a whole team of people creating silly things and they are


Justin Flom: All being posted underneath my name. Pretty, pretty fun. Bunch of content or just if you want to contact me directly. Justin flom calm.


Justin Flom: And there you can see some of the professional stuff I’ve done for Heineken or Dollar General or you can reach me directly, and maybe see about creating a custom magic message for something you want to do.


David Horsager: Sounds great. Well, it is the trusted leader, by the way, we’ll put all that in the show notes. And we’ll put all the links to anything talked about just, you know, also, just to remember trusted leader show.com


David Horsager: We have everything on Justin I love. I mean, the thing I said at the very beginning, you’re the same onstage. Is your offstage authentic and


David Horsager: Just super fun down to earth but brilliant and innovative and it’s just it’s a treat to have you on. It’s a treat to count you and your family as a friend. And so here’s that last question. It’s a trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Justin Flom: So I’m going to go with the guy who I’m working with most often now and he’s a gentleman named Ricky lacks or Rick lacks


Justin Flom: And he is a leader now have a group of individuals here in Las Vegas. Who’s creating the content that I was kind of just talking about, and he


Justin Flom: Is the person who really kind of changed my thinking on what entertainment.


Justin Flom: Is and and what this generation wants to see, but beyond all of the smart things that he did as far as this pivot in and what entertainment looks like the reason he’s a leader.


Justin Flom: Is the community that he’s been able to foster i don’t i don’t know what leadership’s books he was he was reading. He’s definitely looking at things like a network head. I know he was reading Bob Iger Disney biography and and things about like


Justin Flom: I forget other personalities like that, but


Justin Flom: The community that he fostered was not just


Justin Flom: For himself taking risks and doing new things and not caring what other people thought, but really instilling that in a dozen people around him.


Justin Flom: And I and


Justin Flom: There’s an old thing in improv called yes and and yes and is just basically an improv game.


Justin Flom: And you’d see it in sketch comedy and many other things where, when somebody comes into the scene with an idea and they go, hey, my brother was just abducted by aliens.


Justin Flom: You as the actor playing opposite say yes and and then you add to it. The reason being is you never want to say no because that’ll stop the momentum right in its tracks.


Justin Flom: And also you want to be able to build this positive creative energy towards some crazy new idea and saying yes will bring you someplace that you didn’t know that you could go to


Justin Flom: So we don’t just play. Yes. And on camera, which we certainly do. Because most of these videos are very improv sketch type things. We also say yes and in life the way that we


Justin Flom: The way that we brainstorm. The way that we work together the opportunities that are coming. I say yes.


Justin Flom: And what about this. And yes, and what about this. So obviously there’s, there’s a lot of wisdom into saying no to a lot and you can gain your profits by saying no.


Justin Flom: So that’s not we’re not knocking that there’s I’ve said no to more than I ever have this year, but in a mentality of


Justin Flom: community building a company which is what we’re doing essentially is we’re taking several dozen people trying to create a new company here in Las Vegas. We are all saying yes and


Justin Flom: To what we’re doing. I don’t know if that makes sense. But as a leader Ricky lacks


Justin Flom: Fostering that that’s who I would say, and you can see his content online and he’s the only other face. He was the only Facebook page beating me as a personality in that top five pages leading up to the election is you’d see Justin flom and then just above me. Ricky lacks


David Horsager: Oh, that’s an


David Horsager: Interesting well


David Horsager: You know, it’s been said many times, you’re the same about creativity success wealth and everything of the people you hang out with


David Horsager: And I’m probably and even character.


David Horsager: And waistline of the people you hang out with. So


David Horsager: Hang out with people that are if you want to be healthy hang out with people that helped the of you, you know, if you need innovation and hang out with people, you know, hang out with people.


Justin Flom: Like you, and I don’t want to be the smartest guy in the room.


Justin Flom: I want. I want to be learning from somebody else who’s smarter than me in that room.


David Horsager: Well, there’s a lot more smarts that we could gain from you and a whole lot of insight and inspiration today and just a fun conversation but


David Horsager: With that you can check out trusted leader show.com if you want any of the notes or connect with Justin and thank you for listening to the show today, keep on building trust and we’ll see you next time.

Ep. 8: Jeff Zaugg on Why Intentional Fatherhood is Critical for Kids

In this episode, David sits down with Jeff Zaugg, founder and lead cheerleader at dadAWESOME & FATHERS FOR THE FATHERLESS, to discuss why intentional fatherhood is critical for kids and how dads can be more intentional and dadAWESOME.

Jeff’s Bio:
Jeff and Michelle Zaugg will celebrate 15 years of marriage this year. They live in New Brighton, MN with their 3 young daughters and they’re expecting their 4th baby girl in Spring 2021. After 10-years of entrepreneurial non-profit ministry leadership, Jeff served as a pastor at Substance Church in the Twin Cities for the past 7 years. In Fall 2020 Jeff took the leap and went full-time fatherhood ministry. He is the founder and lead cheerleader at dadAWESOME & FATHERS FOR THE FATHERLESS. When he’s not wrestling or playing hide and seek with his daughters, you might find Jeff out for a bike ride, making a pour over coffee, sitting by a fire with his wife or challenging some friends to a game of Spikeball.

Jeff’s Links:
Website: https://dadawesome.org/
Jeff’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeffzaugg/
dadAWESOME Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dadawesome/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/zaugg

Key Quotes:
1. “We all need a dad.”
2. “I want to help dads be great dads.”
3. “Love the role that you’ve been given.”
4. “What we look for we find more of.”
5. “Everyone is a better person if they play more often.”
6. “If we know that we are loved, we are going to pass more love along.”
7. “If you want to change the world, go home and change your kids lives. And they’ll change the world.” Mother Theresa

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Josiah Venture: https://www.josiahventure.com/
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3pu6Nln
FRGMNT Coffee: https://www.frgmntcoffee.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager. We have special guests today we’re going to look at a really special aspect of trusted leadership. Thank you for being on the show Jeff’s Zaugg.


Jeff Zaugg: Glad to be here. Thanks for the invitation and I love what you’re doing with this podcast.


David Horsager: Well, thank you, it’s, it’s, you know, we’re basically I just get free advice. I get to get to be and become I hope get better all the time with with free advice. I’m sure I’d have to pay


David Horsager: Thousands and thousands of dollars for so I’m glad you’re on because everybody is going to benefit from you. You’re a father of four. You are right, when’s when’s your fourth on the


Jeff Zaugg: Right, yeah.


Jeff Zaugg: Do in April. Our fourth baby girl. So I say, Father, for now, but yeah, we gotta wait till April to meet her.


David Horsager: Right. Awesome. So you’ve been a pastor. And today, I just want to, it’s really exciting. You are the founder of dad awesome and father for the fatherless, give us a few things, you know, three things maybe about Jeff that everybody should know


Jeff Zaugg: Oh, man. Yeah, so I’m grateful again to be on and grateful. I’m continuing to learn in this theme of trust. How do I be a leader who’s trustworthy how my dad that’s trustworthy.


Jeff Zaugg: A few things maybe that some, some of your listeners don’t know i i was a pastor, as you mentioned, for seven years have felt for a long time. Then I. What if I could go full time and help dads be better dads.


Jeff Zaugg: I need to be a better dad every single day. So maybe something your listeners don’t know, Dad. Awesome. I have given myself full time to this mission of helping dads have shiny eyes, and love their role of being a dad.


Jeff Zaugg: So that they might not know another thing I love making rope swing. So turning a normal tree into an epic moment with my little girl, so I’ll give me a rope in any tree and I can make a


Jeff Zaugg: Decent rope swing and then barefoot water skiing is one of my passions. So I love getting out in the lake and I have size 15 feet so it’s it’s cheating.


Jeff Zaugg: They say it’s the same as other people, skiing, but I enjoy getting out in the water.


David Horsager: That is awesome. Speaking of data. Awesome. You know that the funny thing. I’ll tell you really quickly. Last person. I had the opportunity to go barefoot water skiing with bell


David Horsager: Blasted his ear drum


David Horsager: Know, and when they pull him out of the water. He had blood just running out of his ear. So there’s the other side of it, not, not to, you know, that was just that was a visual experience for me because


David Horsager: They were asking me the whole day. Do you want to go barefoot and because we love to water ski here in Minnesota. Right. As you can imagine, but I was like, I don’t think I want to do that. That looks like you fall, really hard.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, avoid that type of an injury. It doesn’t have to be that way.


David Horsager: Well, I think this is really interesting for our leaders, you know, we have


David Horsager: CEOs and SVP and of course we have women and men, but we can learn something here because you know we want to become more and more trusted leaders and the truth is I sit next


David Horsager: To I’ve sat next to presidents of countries and presidents of companies that have imposter syndrome. They don’t want to be found out maybe on their leadership at work, but also the leadership, like I’m able to do this. Okay. But man, my home front is falling apart.


David Horsager: So today we’re going to talk about, you know, you’ve got this this organization that helps dad’s be awesome. Dad awesome and fathers


David Horsager: To the fatherless or fathers for the fatherless I you know I was thinking of something I was had the opportunity to go visit and goal of the, the State Penitentiary of Louisiana.


David Horsager: You know, just invited to


Jeff Zaugg: Visit


David Horsager: Is just get the whole story here. But I remember talking to the warden and and one thing came up. This is years ago I might get the statistic barely wrong but if I’m off I’m off by less than 2%


David Horsager: I said, of all you know these folks, what, what’s the. Is there a commonality right what what’s common to these death row inmates. The these, you know,


David Horsager: It is it is it that you know they’re on drugs are born in a certain place or a certain color of skin. He said, there is a commonality and it beats everything else, by far, in if my memory serves me, he said that, you know, you might have 50% this 60% that he said 96.8 or 98.6


David Horsager: Of these that are in here had no relationship or a bad relationship with their father.


David Horsager: What say you,


Jeff Zaugg: Oh man, I mean, it’s heartbreaking for all of us. There’s no one listening to that does there’s not heartbreak attached to kids not having a dad.


Jeff Zaugg: Who’s showing them love who’s showing them how to do these basic things like we we all need a dad and all of us.


Jeff Zaugg: All of us are waiting for someone to be our guide to help us navigate different seasons, especially those first 18 years so yeah the the statistics around fatherlessness the epidemic that exists.


Jeff Zaugg: Is the reason that I’ve given you know my entire life. Now to saying I want to help dads be great dads.


Jeff Zaugg: It also, though, is the reason to focus on not just intentional fatherhood, but the other side, which is the father list because odds are that whatever you experience you’re going to pass on to your kids someday. So the


Jeff Zaugg: These, these kids in our case, we help out with orphanages around the on the other side of the globe, and we help out with women’s shelters here in Minneapolis like


Jeff Zaugg: These kids are likely going to do this, go the same path statistics show that as well.


Jeff Zaugg: So yeah, the heartbreak is real and the it’s easy for a dad to think I’m doing okay I’ll survive this season. I’m not, I’m not breaking my kids hearts. I’m not causing direct paint them, but in under the theme of trust.


Jeff Zaugg: A trustworthy father that just says, instead of surviving the dad life instead of making it through. If they turn the calibrates and dials and say, no, I’m going to, I’m going to prioritize this area of my life because it ripples the home life.


Jeff Zaugg: Ripples into again, whatever the thing is. You’re chasing the other passions, the business, the enterprise, whatever the thing is. So, so my


Jeff Zaugg: My, my passion is to help remind dads be a cheerleader of this is central and everyone that I interview because I get to host a podcast as well. Everyone in the grandparents season in the 60s.


Jeff Zaugg: Or 70s, all of them say, no matter how intentionally. Where’s the dad. I wish I could go back in my 30s and 40s and turn those dials of intentionality up so so yeah it’s heartbreaking. But it’s also very possible for for all of us. Dads to step in to way more intentionality.


David Horsager: On that front. Well, I think we named the podcast will put it in the show notes.


Jeff Zaugg: At her. Yeah, it’s called dead. Awesome.


David Horsager: So perfectly fine. Yeah.


David Horsager: Yeah, and I’ve had the privilege of being on it. But you’ll see that in the show notes dead awesome is easy to find on its own but trusted leader show.com


David Horsager: You know I I brought you on today because you know we have we have all these leaders, people are, you know, entrepreneurs and business leaders and you know moms, dads influencers and I think there’s a reminder here for everybody.


David Horsager: Some on this show listening will feel like, Yeah, I didn’t have a dad. I didn’t have someone fathering me


David Horsager: But others have a great opportunity. Mom or Dad. They have an incredible opportunity and they’re running a great business and they’re leading an organization, they might be governor’s senators presence.


David Horsager: But, but they are missing it at home. And so I want to just positive. What do you tell people what’s the first step you got these you want people to be dad awesome or dads to be data. So, what, what’s the step they can start to take to to be more intentional.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, because it is just one step at a time. And there’s a path we talked about


Jeff Zaugg: The down this path of becoming dead awesome, right, because no one has arrived. And there are no people are like, I’ve got this all figured out. But we we think in from again the guests. I’ve interviewed from research.


Jeff Zaugg: That the first step of being dad. Awesome. Or again, you got moms listening. You got aunts and uncles that like just being an awesome influence on these on these kids is to love the role that you’ve been given. So every dad.


Jeff Zaugg: Has been given a role of being a dad and they love that role. Even if a man is hard is overwhelming. It is, I have


Jeff Zaugg: Multiple times today not shown that, I love that role. But if we love being a dad our kids experience a dad who


Jeff Zaugg: His eyes are shining who he’s been president. If you love the role, then you’re going to be a way better dad. So that’s where it actually starts is is loving


Jeff Zaugg: The fact that you are a data it because what we look for. We find more of, if any, anytime we’re focused on this thing. It’s like, you know, you get a car that


Jeff Zaugg: I’m a Jeep Wrangler guy someday I’ll have a Jeep Wrangler again and it when I’m shopping


Jeff Zaugg: Shopping some day for my for Dodge, Jeep Wrangler which is tough with four kids. Now I heard there is a conversion kit, though, that you can turn


Jeff Zaugg: Into a third row. So that’s the side you’ll spot them though right you’ll spot them all over on the roads.


Jeff Zaugg: Shopping for when you see him everywhere. I didn’t know there’s that many Jeep wranglers and Minnesota. So in the same way. If you’re looking for opportunities to really find that joy. Find the shiny eyes, to engage because you love being a dad so that’s that’s one side of a first step.


David Horsager: So let’s jump, let’s take a step back from it because I know I know leaders. I walk with leaders I consult with and coach privately leaders that share with me. You know, they love their job. They love their work, they’re passionate about their work.


David Horsager: They actually in their heart. Want to be a good dad.


David Horsager: But they don’t love it. Right. So how do you say, oh, just love it. Come on, just just just love that role when they actually don’t love that role.


David Horsager: Especially in certain periods of time. Some would say when they’re, you know, six months old. Some might say teenagers, but they want to do a good job. They want to leave a great legacy, but they just do not love it. How can they start to love it. How can


David Horsager: Definitely


Jeff Zaugg: Part of why I think parents sometimes don’t love the role the season there in is because there’s no immediate results, especially for guys.


Jeff Zaugg: You’re looking for quantifiable Q1 this year. What a god. What am I going to accomplish and and i have


Jeff Zaugg: I’ve had long period, six months 12 months 18 months with with some of my daughters that I’m like I’m not seeing the breakthrough in any tangible way like oh


Jeff Zaugg: I’ve clicked a few notches better. I’m more dead awesome today that I was I’m enjoying it more so because of that deferred


Jeff Zaugg: Different outcomes or deferred like I hit a goal or I’m moving forward that you get on the business front you get in the workplace.


Jeff Zaugg: I think we have to commit to increasing the hours that we’re connecting with our hearts that were present with them.


Jeff Zaugg: That we’re playing with them. I didn’t play is huge. I think everyone is a better person if they play more often. So no matter what your profession is what industry you lead within if you play more if you have an area that you play you laugh that you’re, again, you’re


Jeff Zaugg: Something about playing. There’s a lot of research around this topic I’m still researching more on


Jeff Zaugg: If we if we commit as dads to play twice as much as we did last year, this coming year with our kids that that might only mean


Jeff Zaugg: That you increase a little look for a few more moments to play with your kids if you play more you’ll love


Jeff Zaugg: It. You’ll love being a dad more like if you just play with your kids more so there’s a little bit of we have to choose before we see the outcomes.


Jeff Zaugg: The, the inputs and in this case it’s time. And if you double up as a dad. We talked about doubling down double down and your dad life if you double down and you go from a two hour per day dad to a four hour per day, Dad.


Jeff Zaugg: And their stats that most ads are less than both those. But if you went from two hours to four hours over the course of 18 years you gain 13,000 more hours of time inputting


Jeff Zaugg: You know, you’re, you’re all that you have as far as your wisdom, your connection your guidance. So that’s, that’s our hope is that dad’s Double Down gets the exercise 13 hours.


Jeff Zaugg: 13,000 hours.


Jeff Zaugg: And then they will love it more if they if they


David Horsager: So let’s get, let’s get real for the folks listening to and I know I, you know,


David Horsager: Some people say, I’m very pretty intentional. I was intentional about some things I do with my kids growing up and I


David Horsager: am so grateful for these these four kiddos and an amazing wife, which has helped me be a better dad, at least, and there’s certainly challenges. I can tell you a conversation I had with


David Horsager: A teenager last night that I don’t think I did did actually very well. So I’m not perfect, any of this stuff. But what about someone like me that, you know, and tell code you’re flying 200 flights a year or


David Horsager: 190 flights a year round, round trip. Maybe 100 flights a year and you feel called to THIS WORK FOR ME. INCREASING trust around the world from corruption issues to


David Horsager: pro sports teams to presidents of companies and if you’ll call to that you’re not there certainly have some regrets early on.


David Horsager: I changed some things. So I start flying kids with me. So they see how do you treat the flight attendant. How do you do this, I started doing something where I i


David Horsager: Video my kid send a video encouragement, a little Bible verse in the encouragement to my kids every morning when I was on the road.


David Horsager: And they would open it be excited about it.


David Horsager: You know, and something’s lasted for a time like that, that kind of thing wants some of more older teens.


David Horsager: I had to do some different things but but what do you do like I could say, well, I’m just going to not have my job. I’m not have this call. I’m not gonna do this thing, but


David Horsager: You have to be traveling, you have to do these things. How do you be intentional in the midst of for some listening, the very high demand.


David Horsager: Roles that they have. You think of a senator listening that has to be in DC, however many days a year. And yet we’re grateful that we have some good senators. Some might argue with me here, but some good congress and then women you know in office, pushing


David Horsager: For good in the world. You know what, what are we going to do


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, so, and I believe you know Greg McEwen wrote the book essential ism and thinking around what are the things that are truly essential


Jeff Zaugg: And within the scope of life. So you could say again, as we talked with people that are two decades three decades older than me. They would say, yep. Dad, life is essential. It was an area that if I put inputs there.


Jeff Zaugg: They ripple effect out into making me more effective and these other areas. Now back to your travel question, taking the essential list approach to dad life.


Jeff Zaugg: I do believe you can you can while traveling like some of the examples, you’ve shared you can you can maximize heart connection with your kids maximize moments of encouragement and affirmation words.


Jeff Zaugg: Spoken over them. That really guide them in the right way, using FaceTime using zoom using a notes, text messaging, but also when you’re home.


Jeff Zaugg: Really if we believe that this is one of the most important roles that we have. If we believe it. And if we believe it actually affects our


Jeff Zaugg: Our life in our 60s, 70s, 80s, I didn’t. I do believe this that by the focuses the deposits that I’m making today.


Jeff Zaugg: The joy level that I’m an experienced and walk in, in my 60s, 70s, 80s versus so many of you here. Somebody heartbreaking stories people in their 60s, 70s, 80s, with so much regret so much heartbreak and pain and and conflict between kids and grandkids.


Jeff Zaugg: So that’s what I would say fight not not don’t cheat the job to be a great dad. I don’t think being dead also means you have to fail in the in the other. In fact, I think awesome dads thrive, because they’ve done. What’s essential


Jeff Zaugg: And that has spilled into Greg McEwen talks about protects the asset or physical body it because this. If this fails.


Jeff Zaugg: All the other things fail. I think almost in the same way, your family on the home front if you don’t protect that by carving the time


Jeff Zaugg: It will ripple into and other areas will become toxic because you’ve got that going on in the hole and you care so deeply for these kids and the kids are


Jeff Zaugg: Not again. Not that if you do the right inputs. You don’t still have pain or struggle or your perfect on the home front but that would be me like talking back around the travel side.


David Horsager: I love it. And of course it was, you know, it’s something I’ve changed. I’ve changed how I’ve done, I’ve changed how much I’ve done it and not just you know we had frameworks.


David Horsager: In place even when I was traveling more in those last several years, but I remember early on.


David Horsager: You know when I started my first business in 1999 I came back from being Director of an organization and we poured everything we had into it.


David Horsager: Let you know for two years. I lived in the basement of 86 year old Clara Miller’s black mold. No windows bathroom or kitchen.


David Horsager: And illegal. We didn’t even know was illegal lease and I lived there we figured, you know, we basically we’re down to $1 40 to our name.


David Horsager: After paying are urgent bills that first October, and we thought it was a thing of, we will take anything we can get for work, right.


David Horsager: And of course, things changed over time. And over the years, but we kind of lost everything a couple different times and so


David Horsager: I then I started being more what you could say, in a way, successful and you’re traveling more but but she had kind of had this fear thing of like


David Horsager: Oh, I better do that to provide for the family. And I think people can get in this trap of they’re gone to provide without providing the emotional and leadership support and spiritual support that needs to happen. And once you know that’s a big wake up call for some of us that, you know,


David Horsager: Those are just as important as physical needs.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, and I think most of our dads. Most of our parents and grandparents, the provider side was the primary like that was you’re rocking it as a dad. If you can do to provide inside and we’re just, I think we’re just realizing cultures even embracing


Jeff Zaugg: That present dad’s dads that are conducting gets dads are doing one on ones with their sons or daughters like it to the playground like those are


Jeff Zaugg: It’s generally applauded by our culture today, which is so good, but we didn’t have any example to follow. Because right likely we didn’t see that from our parents.


David Horsager: Alright, let’s jump over the producer Kent, what question do you have today for Jeff ZOG


David Horsager: So I was wondering if there’s maybe a leader you were talking about like there’s a lot of people that maybe didn’t have a good


David Horsager: father figure in their life. Now they’re a father. How can they like who can they turn to, like, Who are people that how can they find like maybe other people that are great dads that could help.


David Horsager: Kind of show them how to be a good dad when they haven’t really had that example before in their life. Yeah.


Jeff Zaugg: Great question, because I mean if we’re trying to figure this out from scratch, we’re in. We’re in huge trouble. So I love your question, Kent and


Jeff Zaugg: The, the hope is through mentoring, but through peer mentors for me it’s pure mentors and as mentors that are a couple a decade, two decades ahead of me, or even just older kids, I’d be peer mentors, with just a little older kids, but I think


Jeff Zaugg: So brotherhood friendships, if we don’t have. And I have this in my neighborhood. I have a dad right over the fence that I’m like he’s


Jeff Zaugg: In so many ways I’ve learned so much just by watching these interaction moments. So I think if we have a lens on


Jeff Zaugg: Of we’re gathering and we’re, we’re trying to gather the best of what we’re seeing again from these mentors. You can do it from books from podcasts as well but


Jeff Zaugg: intentionality. I found myself with a four year old daughter. I had listened to zero podcast on fatherhood and being a better dad read zero books had met with zero mentors on the topic specifically a fatherhood. I was chasing


Jeff Zaugg: Growth Nerium entrepreneurship and leadership and management and personal finance and I was


Jeff Zaugg: Fitness all these other areas, but I wasn’t in my dad life. And I think that’s the case for a lot of a lot of us, we could forget on the parenting side to put intentionality.


Jeff Zaugg: Of taking that person out to coffee or setting up a zoom call or reading a book like there’s ways to pursue both peer mentors around the topic of fatherhood.


Jeff Zaugg: And mentors down the road, but we have to carve the time and we have to pursue that. So that’s probably the biggest thing. I’m a cheerleader for. I’m like, man, if you have a friend circle you can learn from and you’re learning from people a step ahead. I mean, you’re


Jeff Zaugg: You’re going to be just fine. Okay.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah dads that say I’m going after it are going to are going to really calibrate in a positive way.


David Horsager: Having a band of brothers or sisters in life.


David Horsager: For for for guys probably a band of brothers, but I’m going to come back to that in a moment. But this reminds me of something, somebody said to me, a long time ago and and parenting and marriage are similar.


David Horsager: A mentor of mine said if people would spend as much on their marriage in the first five years as they do on the wedding day. Their marriage would be better. They go into this. They don’t learn. They haven’t really


David Horsager: Done a deep study on marriage, and yet that’s going to be a huge massive most important relationship and their life. And by the same token, on parenting people go to lamaze class and they spend time on this, you know,


David Horsager: The birth, like we got a birth plan. We got that baby’s coming out. A lot of times, either way. Right, that’s going to happen, whether it’s perfect or not. I’m not. I’m not. I mean, I should, you know,


David Horsager: With with gratitude to my wife for the for the for the huge massive effort and pain, but I mean I’m just saying that’s going to happen. The bigger pain is the next, you know, 18 or more or hundred years, right. So,


David Horsager: If we, I think he said if you would spend as much time on your parenting as you do on the birth, you will have a chance at winning at parenting right


Jeff Zaugg: Yes, yes, the compounded interest analogy for me is massive because I I was given a gift. About three quarters of my college education by my grandpa amazing generous gift and that amount of money though.


Jeff Zaugg: If I would have instead of paying for college. If I would have put that money into Apple stock in 2001


Jeff Zaugg: Here we are 819 years later that money would be. It’s like $17 million. The $60,000 right so I if I would have known that. In hindsight, the compounded impact of that financial decision of just take the loans out and work them off and invest here, right.


Jeff Zaugg: But we know this in parenting. We know that as parents, the compounded impact of investing the time and the heart and the education and the learning and the online course or whatever the things are


Jeff Zaugg: We know the compounded impact is like an apple stack it ripples into our kids and our kids, kids. And we just, we just know it. And anyone we talked to in their 70s.


Jeff Zaugg: Will say that is the Apple stock. It’s putting our time there versus other pursuits other areas, but again, because


Jeff Zaugg: Because most of us think we’re not doing a good job as a dad, I feel that way all the time we we kind of just try to survive. It’s and that’s, again, just me cheering on that it’s, it is the compounded impact. It is the it’s the goldmine it’s the apple stack.


David Horsager: I love it. So a couple things I, you know, think about is I want to get better as a dad. I want to get better as a husband. I want to get better as a leader, all the time. So we started right our second year of marriage. We started going to marriage conferences and it’s been a good little


David Horsager: You know, kind of jolt every, every time we do to help us be better. We’ve gone to things as far as parenting from connected families to others. I think you have something and not to put an advertisement in here. We didn’t talk about that but but


David Horsager: What, what, what do you do to help dads, you know, get better.


Jeff Zaugg: Yes, we have. I mean, a couple opportunities on the dead awesome side of of just resourcing we created a framework for part framework for fatherhood.


Jeff Zaugg: And it’s a it’s called the adding life to the dad life framework just spells life so I I am loved just that, hey, we have to start with just knowing if we love our


Jeff Zaugg: There’s all kinds of research on this, if we if we know that we are loved. We’re going to pass more love along so so I’m loved. I am intentional. I am free. So, free from just past


Jeff Zaugg: Man past struggles things that hold us back the other direction. And then I am engaged. So we have a four part framework again to helping invite dads into our goal is at the end of that four step framework, you can find us at dad awesome.org is to


Jeff Zaugg: See a dad who truly enjoys being a dad, which is where we started the first question. So I yeah that framework. And then, and then we have a bike ride 100 mile bike ride that we invite people into a dad’s into


David Horsager: I’m committed to going right next this coming one I made the commitment, so


Jeff Zaugg: We’re thinking. Let me we’re in Washington, DC. We’re in Philadelphia, New York, Cocoa Beach, Florida, Minneapolis Denver. We’re all over the place. Now these rides, but you’re doing the Minneapolis one


Jeff Zaugg: Where we’re mobilizing dads to ride their bikes 100 miles for kids that don’t have a dad fathers for the fatherless, and we’re our prayer. Our goal is to raise a million dollars this year for the fatherless.


David Horsager: So we were going to help you do that. And so I hope gonna blow it away, but I’d love to.


David Horsager: Bike along and side anybody would like to do that next. August 28 I believe it is so you can find that on the site and I made that commitment.


David Horsager: Also, so let’s jump back to something I think it’s important no matter who you are as a leader.


David Horsager: No matter if you’re a mother or a father, but this is critical to being a great leader or a great father and that’s mentorship or kind of finding this group of guys and I think you know I shared it on your podcast.


David Horsager: A massive part of any success that I enjoy is because of four guys we started, I think it was 27 or 28 years ago in college junior year


David Horsager: You know meeting together every Thursday night and asking questions spring each other on how are you


David Horsager: How are you treating that in those days that Girlfriend Are you are you being the gentleman you want to be. How are you doing with that leadership and now we’re all running companies or organizations and


David Horsager: And but we still meet every single year for five days.


David Horsager: We sharpen each other. It’s not just to go have fun up at a cabin in northern Minnesota is go up to have Kevin and northern Minnesota, but we


David Horsager: We. How are you doing, is that we kind of have these it changed a little bit. But we have had about 54 questions that each dat each guy answers.


David Horsager: For about three or four hours each day. I think of all that time get through a guy a day or whatever it is. And we do some fun stuff too, but that time has been monumental for us, staying the course.


David Horsager: Both what we would say onstage and offstage in our business for me. I often have a literal stage, but whatever your stages as a leader.


David Horsager: It’s, it’s kind of how how we how we staying the course onstage and offstage at home with our kids, I’m not perfect at all. But I can tell you the best of me is


David Horsager: Largely because of that group of guys that have helped me stay the course. So I can’t kind of encourage enough that point of having a group


David Horsager: A team and accountability group and of course for business. I have a different kind of mastermind group and for, you know, there’s some of these other groups. We can be a part of that help us sharpen each other. But that’s been monumental to me.


David Horsager: What can you say to encourage people to find a group like that if they don’t have one, where they can be authentic and open and where it can be valuable.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, cuz I mean that just like you know you hear about people.


Jeff Zaugg: The it can feel like you’re almost back to like a dating really like it can feel intimidating to go make a deeper friendship. I know a lot of people that said, I tried the softball team. I tried that thing and


Jeff Zaugg: It’s awkward because you put yourself in a spot where you want to pursue a friendship, let’s get together and play disc golf. Let’s do this thing.


Jeff Zaugg: And it’s not reciprocated. It’s like, oh, man, I guess I’m not a good friend. I


Jeff Zaugg: Encourage when it comes to forming deep friendships, the most easy low pressure way to find some, you know, another another dad another guy another


Jeff Zaugg: Friend is to pursue peer mentors. So when you find someone that you’re like hey, it’s a


Jeff Zaugg: It’s a neighbor down the road or it’s a colleague that you want to just get to know a little more to see, hey, can we be mutually encouraging each other to become better dads better leaders more trustworthy.


Jeff Zaugg: I encourage find something about their life. You want to learn from. So it’s their parenting. It’s there.


Jeff Zaugg: Hey, they’re good at doing home projects construction skills, their carpentry. It’s there. They do triathlons and you you’re interested in doing triathlon.


Jeff Zaugg: You ask that person to sit in your camp fire or to have a phone call or to grab a cup of coffee.


Jeff Zaugg: A one time ask for a small amount of time around one specific topic takes all the pressure down because now they’ve already they feel honored


Jeff Zaugg: And like you respect them and you think they’re a good dad or you think, hey, they’re good on the personal finance side or whatever the area of life. You want to learn


Jeff Zaugg: State. It’s ask him for that time. And then after you’ve had that conversation, come back around. And so this is almost it feels like I’m getting dating advice. Right.


Jeff Zaugg: That it works because then a month later, or six weeks later, you reach out again. Hey, we just grab a cup of coffee. Again, you want to


Jeff Zaugg: go shoot some hoops talk again, I’d love to learn more from you, what you find, though, is


Jeff Zaugg: As you pursue learning and you reciprocate back. They see you’re taking action and areas are encouraging. They actually feel great about themselves, because they’re like I’m helping someone


Jeff Zaugg: And I did that with my closest circle of friends over the course of a year five buddies and then I brought the group together and we started cooking breakfast together at 530 in the morning and we formed a group and


Jeff Zaugg: That didn’t cost much one guy brought a dozen eggs each week and we made eggs and we talked about life, just like the group you have, but it took a year of me intentionally


Jeff Zaugg: Pursuing those guys. And those are the guys


Jeff Zaugg: That put their arm around me and cried with me this last year, my, my dad went home to heaven. So he died. This last year and this group of guys carried me they brought food for my family while I was up in northern Wisconsin driving back and forth in the last month.


Jeff Zaugg: It was it changed everything about the trajectory of how I went through hardship, because of this group of guys, but it did not happen accidentally


David Horsager: Yeah, I just can’t emphasize this enough that this we so often see people thinking independence, especially guys I’m doing it on my own. I’m


David Horsager: I’m self made nobody self made the research shows, by the way, and this whole idea this ego that we do it on our own. It’s, it’s not the way forward. And so I love that. I love that, by the way.


David Horsager: Another thing is what you just said about mentorship programs like I think


David Horsager: The reason most mentorship programs fail in companies is because there’s this massive commitment ahead of time. Like, am I even gonna like that person. I’ve got a sign up for 12 sessions or whatever. It’s like


David Horsager: I love this idea of just, hey, go out once you can be mentored in a moment, one time and then have it leads to something else. Great, and might be an ongoing thing but take the pressure off and I love that idea. What are you, what are you doing right now to learn and grow yourself.


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, I, I would say in a few categories I audible has been a game changer. So my listening to books has been a game changer. The last few years.


Jeff Zaugg: But I’ve tried to go about one for one reading and listening reading a paper book and listening. So I would say


Jeff Zaugg: On the learning side, it’s been in that category of books and and then on the other side is just growing I think jumping in an area that I’m over my head and learning as I go my podcast is


Jeff Zaugg: Is an example of that. I mean, starting a new nonprofit organization isn’t it so


Jeff Zaugg: Just putting myself always at the edge of what’s comfortable or actually I take leaps past were comfortable


Jeff Zaugg: Because I just know that I’m gonna get I’m gonna learn so much by doing that, and I’ll be desperate for mentorship. I mean, every shout to you what two months ago, I was like, I just need an hour of your time to talk about this and this and this.


Jeff Zaugg: So I would say, I’m in that place of often I’m in over my head and I need help from others. And then I tried it on a consistent side of the reading learning. So probably those two sides, maybe the last one. I’d mentioned is I try to get alone.


Jeff Zaugg: To a cabin in the woods about once a quarter to just take long walks and to take time to I slept 13 hours this last one I just went up a week ago to a place called wilderness


Jeff Zaugg: Fellowship and in Wisconsin, the idea of just Silent Retreat time slow it down maybe bring a book, maybe just a journal and take that long hike sometimes fall through a hole in the ice and a bog which may have happened. It was a little


Jeff Zaugg: Cold, but the slowing that’s just very countercultural right now.


David Horsager: To get


Jeff Zaugg: To take time away from the hustle. But I think that’s the investments that multiplies into effectiveness and clarity in so many other areas of life on the home front and on the work side. So, so, yeah, that that would be another encouragement.


David Horsager: You know that makes me think of something just for the first time popped up in my head a mentor of mine Sherm Svensson through college. So


David Horsager: You know the pre many don’t know this, they think target just came out of nowhere but target corporation used to be Dayton Hudson Corporation. Okay.


David Horsager: And those of us in Minneapolis know the Dayton’s downtown and Dayton’s was the big, you know, the Big Store. It was it was it was a massive company seven different business units. The, the big


David Horsager: Their CEO of Dayton Hudson jewelers and Dayton Hudson this date hands of that. And so Sherm at the time he got asked to be CEO of just one of those seven


David Horsager: At the end, he was dating hutch and jewelers he was a CEO now and the, the, you know, he’s like, I gotta make my I gotta do my stuff and the overall CEO said to him after one year at the Job said


David Horsager: How many days. Have you taken off its terms Sherm said none like I’m here, I’m all in. And the CEO said, do you think I’m doing a bad job, the overall CEO said, No, no, sir.


David Horsager: You think I’m not doing everything I need to do. No. You think I’m not present. No, he said. Then how is it that I’m able to take every single day of my seven days of vacation I seven weeks seven weeks of vacation.


David Horsager: And you couldn’t take a single location and you call yourself a CEO. And from that day.


David Horsager: Sherm served by the way later became the CEO of Dayton Hudson corporation overall right before it became target.


David Horsager: He was an amazing CEO, he gave his time at the university, then I’m on the board of now, but I’m in his later years to be the CFO.


David Horsager: Basically voluntarily. And that’s where I was very fortunate to be one of very few students to be mentored by him, but I remember later as when he became by the time he he became CEO.


David Horsager: Of all of Dayton Hudson. He said, every spring and every fall. He takes two weeks now. Not everybody can do this right at his home on the beach in Florida.


David Horsager: And he said that I take and I have the same rhythm of those four weeks I get up in the morning I get up an hour later than normal five in the morning, instead of four in the morning.


David Horsager: I go for a walk on the beach always with my notebook.


David Horsager: And then I read all morning. And then in the afternoon I spend with my wife and we golf and go out for dinner. I go to bed early I come in. I read I


David Horsager: Get up in the morning, an hour late I walk on the beach. I read all morning.


David Horsager: And he said that time is what gave him some of the best ideas to deal with the big challenges so that that time of getting away. I think is critical. And you know I


David Horsager: I practiced that to some degree. I’m always learning the practice things more, but I’ve had some amazing times away that have


David Horsager: led to great things. And I’ve certainly needed and even have helped me solve things. So it’s this is kind of fun because getting away as important, our community. It’s important. They seem like opposites, but they’re not you kind of need both. Yeah, yeah.


Jeff Zaugg: I I’m such a fan of George Washington Carver is another example just legendary example of taking walks in the woods and all of his breakthroughs came from the walks. Yeah, so


David Horsager: I think


David Horsager: Right, Prime Minister Churchill. I think he was known for


David Horsager: What did they, what did he called it learning by walking around. Yeah, he got something like that so


David Horsager: Interesting. Well, let’s uh, let’s move into here. I want to talk about your is the nonprofit father for the fatherless.


Jeff Zaugg: Yes, right now, both we’re not sure if it’ll be two organizations or one but two fathers for the fatherless is the, yeah. Is this mission of activating dads.


Jeff Zaugg: To raise money and awareness for kids without dad so fathers for the files around bike rides and runs will do a run this year as well.


Jeff Zaugg: In fact, I think it could become more than that, but just dads need something to do versus let’s process our thoughts and our feelings so so that’s where we’re just like, Let’s engage dad’s help them plug into that mission.


Jeff Zaugg: When, when a dad is plugged into a mission and doing something hard their kids. Notice, something’s different about my dad, he’s not just


Jeff Zaugg: Going to work and coming home and surviving so so that’s the whole point is to kind of stoke up a fire of being on mission as a dad and accomplish something potentially the hardest thing that dad has done.


Jeff Zaugg: Since they became a Dad could be 200 miles and the kids get to cheer mind see him see him suffer see him sweat and they know that, hey, it’s not just because they had wants to be in good shape, but he’s doing it for kids that don’t have a dad.


David Horsager: I love it. And speaking of shape. You’re in great shape and you know my story. I lost 52 pounds and five and a half months at one point and


David Horsager: It made a huge difference in my life I was an athlete in college and before. And then, you know, start writing books and leading in some ways in some things change. And I said, I gotta change something, but how do you stay fit.


Jeff Zaugg: Oh, man. Well, I mentioned rope swings, right, the


Jeff Zaugg: Right. The good rope swing. Sometimes you have to throw that rope and over like 50 times


Jeff Zaugg: Branch know it’s i i do think


Jeff Zaugg: Activity with the family is part of it. So, so by taking the girls out, putting all three and a sled and towing them around the block a few times.


Jeff Zaugg: Now I do early morning walks. I try to get out five get out for a two mile walk in the morning. So just fresh here first before screens is a principle that I learned from a mentor.


Jeff Zaugg: The, the stain and shape those not a gym membership that you can see the bike behind me. I do have a bike on a little trainer, so I can in the wintertime cycle.


Jeff Zaugg: Overall though, I would not say health and fitness is like a central passion of mine, but I love being active and playing. So if I can make it play versus make it grind it out.


Jeff Zaugg: Then I stay active and stay in shape, so that’s that’s the key for me or the other principle is find something that I don’t know much about to put myself in the edge of scary. And then I have to like


Jeff Zaugg: I have to train enough to stay healthy doing it. So if I commit myself to something with some other brothers that that nudges me forward. So those


David Horsager: Commit commitments, huge, like when I commit to a triathlon.


David Horsager: I got. Oh man, I gotta get ready for it, even though I don’t like to really I don’t really like love to swim run or bike, but for some reason you know that commitment.


David Horsager: That was funny one that brings back to, for me, one of the motivations for the weight loss and of course I had to figure out a way to do this ongoing now. It’s been a decade.


David Horsager: So that’s good. But I am I said to my staff at the time. I shook hands in front of people. If I don’t lose this weight. I’ll give you each of you. What was 20 $500 you remember this.


David Horsager: Yes, it says, and my and I that was I didn’t have much money at the time. This is like, I’m like, you know, in my wife’s like, what are you doing


David Horsager: But I knew if I set it out loud, and I made a commitment I would figure out a way because I knew I couldn’t be paying this 20 $500 you know to people.


David Horsager: For not making that commitment and basically I to make that commitment. I had to lose 40 pounds which, you know, then I kept going a little bit because I learned it would be healthier to have a little more off. But, but, um, I made it my three pounds.


Jeff Zaugg: Yes, that money.


Jeff Zaugg: When you were gonna follow through, because it’s a big dollar amount. You can’t afford it. You got to find through


Jeff Zaugg: But also I mean the investment of our health. I mean, that ripples into what energy it ripples in our marriage is gonna be healthier. Our kids are like we just know that that side of stay active stay fit.


Jeff Zaugg: Do not let that area go because that area will ripple into every, every other area. So that’s huge.


David Horsager: That’s you’ve inspired me though I don’t love to run. I’ll do certain things. There’s something but bringing it into something I like, like I just want to think about, you know, is there a way I could get back to playing basketball with people that are, you know, an older group.


David Horsager: That would do that because I just love that and I haven’t played for a decade, but doing something I’d love that would get me up that would get me excited about it and


David Horsager: You know, like some people like to play golf. I love to fly fish or whatever, you know, finding some I love with it would be fun to do more. So find something you love


David Horsager: To do, or something that can be playful and seemed like it sticks a lot better. And that makes sense.


David Horsager: All right. Hey. This has been great. There’s so much more we could ask, but let’s get to the lightning round because it’s time so quick questions quick answers. What’s your favorite book or resource right now, or one of them.


Jeff Zaugg: So I’m reading and I know he’s another guest of yours, but I’m reading when the day by Mark Patterson and it’s it’s it’s messing with me and it’s messing in some of the themes of grief.


Jeff Zaugg: And how we take what’s happened in the past of hardships and we activate that towards something good that we actually don’t have to let it hold us back. There’s a new beautiful path forward even if there’s loss. So when the day, it’s about daily disciplines, Mark Patterson.


David Horsager: He’s got several great books and we’re excited to have him on. He’s booked and going to be on before along, but that’s a


David Horsager: Phenomena. It’s not just a guy that writes books and cranks out books he’s a guy that writes books that has something to say. And every one of them something different, something inspiring and something valuable so super excited about that. What’s something you can’t live without.


So,


Jeff Zaugg: Got it right here, a good cup of coffee. I mean, I do the poor over


David Horsager: It’s kind of late here in the day. For this, we’re recording. I mean, you’re just you’re, you’re, is it an all day long thing.


Jeff Zaugg: Well, and it’s it’s it’s drink some really good coffee fragment COFFEE IN THE NORTH LOOP I brewed it up by pour over 10 x. And yes, so coffee is is pretty high on the list of can’t live without.


All right.


David Horsager: Best advice or quote


Jeff Zaugg: Man, if you want to change the world go home and change your kids lives and they’ll change the world. Mother Teresa yeah that quote


David Horsager: What they love it want to change your world. We got to say that say that real clear again.

Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. Do you want to change the world go home and change the lives of


Jeff Zaugg: Go home and change the lives of your family like your kids and your wife, you have


Jeff Zaugg: To change the world.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: The


David Horsager: Change the lives of your family. There you go.


David Horsager: One thing left on your bucket list.


Jeff Zaugg: I have not spoken this publicly


David Horsager: It’s time.


Jeff Zaugg: I want to do I want to accomplish an Iron Man Yeah, so I wanna, I want to knock off the Iron Man, I think it’s my daughter’s gonna be a little older, but it’s on the bucket list and i’m not i’m not


David Horsager: Saying go out there and man is you taught this is it’s a time. It is a commitment I know several people


David Horsager: And, you know, even when my wife doing marathons. It’s like that’s a ton of time. So you try, you put these things together, running a company or an organization doing IT doing a


David Horsager: 20 hours a week of training for a triathlon and trying to be a good dad this mix gets challenging, but that’s that’s the mix, right.


Jeff Zaugg: I think it’s older when they’re in high school, junior high, so they can bike, along with me when I think there’s some participation. Well, I run their biking or their kayaking next to me swim. And I think that’s the way it’s going to happen.


David Horsager: Right, put one on your back while you swim those two miles.


David Horsager: Well, I have a gold mine is due to do the half in Kona


Jeff Zaugg: Together.


David Horsager: Just a half try half right. I think I


David Horsager: Get there but


Jeff Zaugg: Alright, half Iron Man, you said


David Horsager: I mean half fire.


Jeff Zaugg: Oh yeah, that’s a bigger step.


David Horsager: Yeah, yeah, much, much bigger. Yeah. So I got a little bit to do but that’s something I’d be motivated by so hey where. Can everybody hear about learn more about you will put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com where, where can we find out about you and connect


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah. The easiest way is dad awesome.org so stat awesome.org and I would love to. Yeah, just welcome any of your amazing audience to engage in more the intentional fatherhood resources that we create. That’d be amazing.


David Horsager: And we don’t promote many other you know things on this, on this podcast but I’m so passionate about fatherhood, too, I think. And I just think what you’re doing is so amazing and tremendous and I think


David Horsager: We often think of how we’re going to change the world with our mission and our case of developing trusted leaders and organizations around the world or or in in in whatever it is we’re called to do but


David Horsager: If we if we’re a dad a father or a mother and not doing that role. Well, we are doing a disservice to the world and our greatest legacy is in those at home and so


David Horsager: I’m just, I’m grateful for the work you’re doing. And I’m so happy to share it with the world because I believe this is really the way to trusted leadership ongoing So hey, it’s the trusted leader show. So it’s the last question for you, who is a leader you trust and why


Jeff Zaugg: Yeah, so my he was my youth pastor Mel Allenwood is now running a church planting organization in Eastern Europe, and he


Jeff Zaugg: He showed this is why I trust him. Is he said he saw something in me and said,


Jeff Zaugg: I want to invite you into in this case it was playing the acoustic guitar and leading songs leading worship, but he saw something in me and made my eye shine by welcoming me into that place.


Jeff Zaugg: And I will forever trust him because he showed that he believed in me and he’s never, you know, he hasn’t let me down in the side of broken trust but I


Jeff Zaugg: I often have people say, who’s that leader that really affected the trajectory of my life. Mel Ellen would


Jeff Zaugg: Josiah ventures is the organization. He runs and it’s because again. And we can do this. So people in our lives, we can find someone see something’s the glimmer of something in them and we can speak way more life over them, we can


Jeff Zaugg: We can give them opportunities lift them up and it will send them on a different trajectory and that’s so that’s why I trust and appreciate him.


David Horsager: I love it. My wife has a saying it’s affected me a lot in it’s affected our, our parenting and I wish I would be better at it consistently, but she says, see the good say the good share the good


David Horsager: So if you see a kid doing something good. See a friend up an employee see say that you know you can speak life and and i think


David Horsager: Bernie Brown said what if they have people have to feel like they belong before they believe differently before they’ll behave differently. And it’s like, See that good share that good and you have a chance. I have a chance at changing the trajectory of others and so


David Horsager: You know what, Jeff. You’ve made me better. You may be a better dad a better person and I just thank you for that. And I thank you for our relatively new, but growing friendship and so


Jeff Zaugg: Thank you so much for having me on. Honor to join you and love everything you’re doing I’m cheering for you.


David Horsager: Well, thank you. Likewise. It’s been the trusted leader show. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 7: Greg Feasel on The Value of Serving Others

In this episode, David sits down with Greg Feasel, COO of the Colorado Rockies, to discuss the value of serving others.

Greg’s Bio:
Greg Feasel is in his 26th year with the Colorado Rockies and 11th as chief operating officer. In this role, Feasel manages all aspects of the organization’s business operations, including all revenue areas, customer service, ticket sales and operations, corporate partnerships, communications, marketing, broadcasting, community affairs, merchandising, promotions, special events, private suites and party facilities, information systems, human resources, ballpark operations and capital improvements.

Feasel joined the Rockies prior to the 1996 season after serving as a division director of sales and marketing for Coca-Cola Enterprises, where he was responsible for all revenue areas and key accounts while overseeing the day-to-day operations of a distribution and sales center. Feasel is also a former educator in Texas and Colorado.

A graduate of Abilene Christian University, Feasel was inducted into the school’s Sports Hall of Fame in 2005. Along with his brother, Grant, he was also selected for the ACU All-Century Team in 2005. Feasel was a professional football player from 1983-87, and his career included time with the Green Bay Packers, San Diego Chargers and the Denver Gold in the United States Football League.

In addition to his responsibilities with the Rockies, Feasel is also active in the community. He currently serves as a board member of the Downtown Denver Partnership/Denver Civic Ventures Board, VISIT DENVER and is executive director of the Colorado Rockies Baseball Club Foundation.

Greg and his wife Lynn have one daughter, Zola.

Greg’s Links:
Colorado Rockies: https://www.mlb.com/rockies

Key Quotes:
1. “We learn from the good things that people do. And we learn from the not so good things that people do.”
2. “Nothing good ever happens after midnight.” Dick Vermeil
3. “You treat people how you want to be treated.”
4. “My job is not to have someone serve me but me to serve them.”
5. “At the beginning of everything, the worst thing is not to know.”
6. “You’ve got to continue to be prepared.”
7. “You’ve got to be interacting with people, and you’ve got to do it all the time.”
8. “Sit in the front row.”
9. “Don’t sell yourself short.”

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader Show. Today I have a special guest. He’s a friend. He’s been a former NFL football player. He’s an amazing dad and a really an amazing leader.


David Horsager: What we say on and off the platform. And he has a public space. He certainly in but he is


David Horsager: The Chief Operations Officer and he’s been that for last 26 years of the Colorado Rockies, one of the most beautiful places in America to watch a ball game on a beautiful night, looking at the Colorado mountains welcome Greg Feasel.


Greg Feasel: Well, thanks. Thanks for having me.


David Horsager: Greg it’s it’s a truly have you on what you’re just talking to these executives, we have listening. The, the, really, it’s it’s trusted leaders and that’s what we’re going for. But what should everybody know about Greg diesel give us three things.


Greg Feasel: Oh, three things.


Greg Feasel: You know, make it simple.


Greg Feasel: You know what you tell people, that’s what you do.


Greg Feasel: And know that your word and and you know character stands for something and you know don’t don’t lose sight of any of those


David Horsager: Love it when you think about, you know, going back to the football days and. Can you think back to some


David Horsager: You know great coaches not great coaches not naming anybody but like when you saw someone that was someone I trust it, and why that was someone who made a difference, any stories come to mind is way back when you were a player.


Greg Feasel: Um, yeah, I mean there’s there’s tons of stories. I mean, we learn from the good things that people do and we learn from you know the not so good things that people do and and none of us are perfect. And, you know, we’re not we’re not made perfect, but no, there’s


Greg Feasel: I think for me it’s, you know, I take a little bit from this person I take a little bit from


Greg Feasel: That person and I mean I’ll tell you a story about dick for male when I was with the eagles.


Greg Feasel: My guess is he would never remember this, but I was a nobody. I was, uh, I had tried out they invited me to camp.


Greg Feasel: It was the year after they went to the Super Bowl. But, I mean, I was really i was about as far from somebody as you could get and


Greg Feasel: You know, and that’s back in the days when they would have you know hundred people show up to training camps and I was walking over from the, from the dorm to practice and


Greg Feasel: He walked with me and and talked with me, and you know, you might say, well, that, you know, what does that say about you know being a leader or being a trusted leader but


Greg Feasel: The fact that he would take the time out and he would walk with me versus, you know, Bill bercy or Ron Jaworski or Wilbur Montgomery. And one of the things he said to me was, you know. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, and it’s just a little thing.


Greg Feasel: But the seeds. We plant in people. You have no idea. You know how they impact lives and to this day, I mean that sticks in my mind. And it was just a you know a little walk and


Greg Feasel: Yeah, so the little things like that pop up in my head all the time and help keep me going.


David Horsager: Let me jump back and forth here a little bit, but jump into basically Chief Operations Officer running operations there at the


David Horsager: Rockies, and really run a whole lot, and I’ve seen you do it and senior in the role, but


David Horsager: You know, a couple of times we’ve we I think specifically of a time we walk the stadium and we walked I it seemed like every square foot all the way around down to where you hold people if they’re


David Horsager: Getting a fight and have to go to jail, whatever, but but you you know you walked with me and that brings that back to me from on the field from players, but I just the winnings. I liked about you and just noticed is no matter who it was.


David Horsager: Your owner or your top player or the person is probably I would say, especially the person


David Horsager: You know, washing down the the the pretzel stand you notice them and you talk to him. And you said hi to him. And it seems like you know everybody you maybe got something from


David Horsager: From dick and walking around the stadium and knowing everybody and saying hi to everybody. I mean, how has some of that really affected how you are as a leader there.


Greg Feasel: Yeah, I mean yeah it all plays it all plays into that and i mean you you know you treat people how you want to be treated. I mean, the golden rule and you know people want to. They want to be recognized.


Greg Feasel: And at the end of the day you know I’m in the service business and, you know, my job is not to have someone serve me but me to serve them and, you know, back to the meal. The example is


Greg Feasel: It really kind of blew me away that that he would take the time to to me was just me and him. So I mean, and there’s other people walk. He’s walking with me.


Greg Feasel: So it made a huge impact on my life and I’m sure he has no idea


David Horsager: One thing you and I have talked about a little bit is health and you know you got your body was probably beat up a little bit. They’re playing playing in the NFL and and i know


David Horsager: We also talked about how we eat. We talked about how we exercise. I’ve been in the workout workout center there at the Rockies, or at least it’s spring training with you.


David Horsager: But I just think one of the big things we talked about as leaders is is really, you know, if you’re, you got to lead yourself.


Greg Feasel: You got to have your own trumpets.


David Horsager: And I just think of for you even personally what habits. Do you have these days that just help you live out what you believe it can be physically funny, you know, faith, whatever. But you’re you’re living a certain way there. But what habits do you put in place here. Lean yourself well


Greg Feasel: Sure. I mean, there’s a there’s a ton of them my


Greg Feasel: I don’t know that my wife would call them all good habits, simple things like you know I’m an early riser and I you know I think it’s


Greg Feasel: I think it’s important to, you know, not let grass grow under your feet and I don’t expect everyone to get up at, you know, five o’clock, like I do, but I’ve been


Greg Feasel: I’ve been doing it. And I think, you know, people they miss a lot in life they miss a lot with their families. They missed stuff with work because


Greg Feasel: You know they’re they’re frantic they’re pushing the snooze alarm, you know, three or four times.


Greg Feasel: So I mean that that’s an important thing to me. One of the things I learned in in college. I wasn’t


Greg Feasel: The best


Greg Feasel: Student I was the first one in my family either side to go to college and so that first semester you know I’m away from home. I never really been anywhere away from home and


Greg Feasel: I didn’t really know how to study. You know, I went to a small school and just didn’t have the background. So I didn’t do well my first semester and I had one of the talk to me and say,


Greg Feasel: You know, you’re gonna you know flunk out and I didn’t want to be the first one in my family to go to college and then flunk out of college.


Greg Feasel: He said, just, you know, again, back to being simple, he said, Just sit on the front row. I’m not gonna tell you anything else go to class but sit on the front row and


Greg Feasel: You know it is that a habit.


Greg Feasel: But it’s important to me to be at the front of the room versus the back of the room. I mean, in Proverbs quick to listen slow to speak. I can’t tell you how many times you know that’s saved me.


Greg Feasel: In in number of situations athletics Rockies my days with Coca Cola. Yeah, so there’s


Greg Feasel: Yeah, you know, the things you put in your body, the things you put in your mind. I start the day I get up early. I start the day and I just finished.


Greg Feasel: The bible in a year.


Greg Feasel: And I think it’s important that when you get up in the morning what you start putting in your mind. The same way that you know what you put in your mouth it and you know you and I have talked about


Greg Feasel: You know, I eat within the first 30 minutes of getting up because, you know, you’ve got to put fuel in your body. So I know I kind of bounced around but


Greg Feasel: You know, I think its fundamentals. I was an offensive lineman and you know offensive linemen are all about you know fundamentals. Where do your feet go. Where are your hands. Do you know what the snap count is


Greg Feasel: You know, do you show up to practice on time. That stuff goes a long ways to


Greg Feasel: You know making you successful and a happy person.


Greg Feasel: That’s


David Horsager: You know, we talked about a lot here about the what you input equals output right


David Horsager: Right. Little things then because they make the big difference, but it’s whatever you put in, which put in your body, which put in your marriage, which put in your leadership what you put in your, you know, in everything matters and


David Horsager: Into relationships into everything. So I think absolutely. It’s the truth, it’s the truth from


David Horsager: Everything to business to psychology thoughts that go in lead to desires which lead to actions. That’s the basic psychology to first law of thermodynamics, the energy put is the same as


David Horsager: Yours, you get out. I mean, it’s the same. So that’s, that’s absolutely true. You know, we out. We also talked a lot about you know how you’re doing leadership alone, you’re doing it wrong. How do you, how do you surround yourself. I know you’ve you’ve had a team you believe in team.


David Horsager: But we’re. Who are you, you’re kind of up at the top, you’re, you’re probably and I’m making assumptions here but you know owners expect certain things and you’ve got you’ve got a lot of the operation side. But still there’s players that expect certain things.


David Horsager: Sure how the field is you got all these people that are expecting things. How are you, you know, kind of finding a team to not just lead but to really keep you accountable and and also encouraged.


Greg Feasel: To me a truly make comes down, you’re not trying to be simple, but I’m just a dumb offensive alignment. It comes down to a couple things is


Greg Feasel: At the beginning of everything. The worst thing is not to know. So for me the worst thing is not to know for the people I work with the worst thing for them is not to know. So spend a lot of time, you know, face to face.


Greg Feasel: I have weekly meetings with my staff and it’d be no different with, you know, customers or people that were engaged with


Greg Feasel: You, you’ve got to be in front of them. And then, you know, normally when you have problems is when you don’t have that that constant contact or that relationship. And you know, that’s why. You know, I think it’s extremely important, so


Greg Feasel: And we’ve got good. We’ve got good people here. They’ve been here long time they the institutional knowledge we have around here. We’re more like a family.


Greg Feasel: I mean I have seven direct reports and five of her longer than me and I’m going into my 26th season. So we’re truly a family. We don’t always agree, but, you know, we usually end up going in the same direction.


David Horsager: You’ve been leading through a crazy pandemic last year, you know, what do you learn


Greg Feasel: Patience.


Greg Feasel: And you know, you got to continue to be prepared. You know, we’re right now we’re, you know, talking about the season and scheduled to start April 1 and which is, you know, right around the corner and spring training, you know, the middle of February and


Greg Feasel: You know, you just kind of have to balance those two things and you know with this pandemic for all of us. It’s, you know, whether it’s having people here having them work at home remotely, you know, how do you keep that all together, but also keep the business running


Greg Feasel: It’s, it’s


Greg Feasel: It’s been a challenge I think everyone has done a great job here. We didn’t lay off any full time people which


Greg Feasel: You know came down from our owner and


Greg Feasel: You know, just very proud of everything that the the staff has done and I think, you know, we’re all going to come out of this.


Greg Feasel: We’re gonna, we’re going to see things different which that’s what this pandemic is you know it’s it’s caused us all to look about, you know, how do we have, we’ve been operating how we can operate in the future.


Greg Feasel: So, you know, that’s been a positive and then, you know, coming out of this were, you know, I really think it’s, you know, I’m you know what is 2021 look like it’s probably a transition year and we get back to more


Greg Feasel: You know where we were in 19. Mm hmm.


David Horsager: I did a I did a talk this morning and


David Horsager: You know 15 things I learned from 2022 I’ll use forever.


David Horsager: And one of those one of those ideas was that idea of what happens when you when you’re forced to take a break or for staff change, you know, forced to kind of forcing yourself to have sabbatical.


David Horsager: What do you think, and it seems like in some ways things won’t be the same. What, what won’t change what will be better different when you get to


David Horsager: Like because of this pandemic, you see anything that when you think about it, you know, down the road. They are there things that you’re changing long, long term because of going through kind of such a transformational time


Greg Feasel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’d be a long list to go down. You know what’s going to change forever. I think, you know, for the person looking outside at organization. I don’t know that they’re going to see sweeping change.


Greg Feasel: From the outside, but definitely from the inside. I think you know we’ve all learned to that we’re not perfect. And we’ve learned to work smarter and you know I when you when you brought up the pandemic, you know, personally.


Greg Feasel: You know, I live south of town. And, you know, right next open space and I had, I had a mountain bike that I haven’t written in five years, and


Greg Feasel: You know, I was doing you know 30 4050 miles a week because I was able to do that and and I haven’t time with my family in the summer, ever. I mean, my wife and my daughter don’t know any different. And I know your schedule travel


Greg Feasel: You know you’ve spent more nights at home than you have, and years.


Greg Feasel: To decades. Yeah.


Greg Feasel: Yeah, so I think all those things apply. Yeah.


David Horsager: What do you, what are you doing now to get better.


David Horsager: What are you doing to keep learning growing, what do you, what do you


Greg Feasel: Do in these days, you know, I’m, you know,


Greg Feasel: You know, one of the questions that Kevin sent me was, you know, you know what book have you read lately, and I’ve really, you know, been trying to spend, you know, more time in the Bible and


Greg Feasel: And


Greg Feasel: Just, you know, continue to pull things out our churches here for the most part have been


Greg Feasel: Other than those first couple months have been having people come back so


Greg Feasel: You know, spending time at church and sorry sharper edge you know just sharpening the sword there. And then, you know, as it relates to, you know, the business side, you know, spending time


Greg Feasel: Zooming like we’re doing right now with my counterparts. And you know what have they learned, you know, the same thing. You’re asking me, you know what, uh, what have you learned


Greg Feasel: And trying to apply those come


David Horsager: How much of an island. Are you on like do you talk to


David Horsager: You know the all the presidents or


David Horsager: Chief Operating officers of the


David Horsager: Just all the other clubs you it’s a


David Horsager: Pretty close knit group you check in. How you doing with this.


Greg Feasel: Sure, yeah. Yeah, there’s there’s like little offshoots like you know if you’re if you’re a mid market club, there’s like a little cluster that you know we share information we bounce things off of each other. And then, yeah, there’s, you know, the bigger groups.


Greg Feasel: But I’d say we, we, I spend more. I personally spend more time whether you know clubs that are like us and how are they doing things like markets. Yeah, it’s, there’s only 30 of us, so it’s


David Horsager: You know, it’s not that Minnesota Twins are kind of in your market. Right.


David Horsager: Yep, same market so


Greg Feasel: Yeah.


David Horsager: Good old twins. I just spoke to the leadership and staff there recently as all zoom, obviously. Instead, but


David Horsager: Fun Fun Time fact


Greg Feasel: Yeah, and they, they do a great job. Dave St. Peter’s does a great job. Yeah.


David Horsager: It’s great stuff. What about you know you had this transition pro football. And then, you know, this time in corporate and


David Horsager: Coca Cola it seem like you’re moved up leadership pretty fast there and he tells her, you call yourself a dumb lineman but you’re kind of at the top of what anyone would want to be at in sports running a operations of a great organization like the Rockies.


David Horsager: We know but we know I know better. And I know, I know you’re real true humility to. But go back to that corporate world Coca Cola. What was some learning that


David Horsager: As a leader there you are growing your over sales for a time. What was there a tipping point in time there that stands out as a leader as far as the opportunity to grow, what happened.


Greg Feasel: Oh yeah, there was there was telling you know back to, you know, you take this from this person and that from that person and


Greg Feasel: You know, I don’t know why, you know, I’m very operational minded and I didn’t know that, you know, growing up. But when I got into Coke, it just


Greg Feasel: It just, it kind of all fit, you know, I, for whatever reason, you know, I picked up on distribution and production and and the numbers and you know how things look and you know coke is it’s a very operational already in business, but it’s also


Greg Feasel: I wouldn’t call it


Greg Feasel: Was gonna say with the word entertainment, but it’s not that


Greg Feasel: You know everything needs to look good. So, the product is face, the product is clean the it’s not expired.


Greg Feasel: You know, you know where your display is in position to your competitor.


Greg Feasel: You know, all that stuff has really helped me and understanding the beverage business has helped me. Do what you know I do here. Yeah. Yeah. And you know I had, I had a lot more people who work for me there and


Greg Feasel: Covered a you know a lot more ground. So it was


Greg Feasel: It was it was a great experience. I mean, it was you know my degree is not in business. But my business degree was a Coca Cola, and it was a great training ground.


David Horsager: It’s great. Well, for a guy that flunked out of college.


David Horsager: Had to get two degrees in some way.


Greg Feasel: Right. Yeah, it was close.


David Horsager: Competency competency bill, it’s not bad. What um


David Horsager: Any when you think about it, like with your team, whether it’s now Coca Cola what rhythms do use like are their rhythms. You sit like you always


David Horsager: Have a weekly meeting every daily, meaning you you try to do this or their rhythms that you kind of have with your team stay connected delete or to build trust.


Greg Feasel: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you’ve got to be. You’ve got to be interacting with people and you’ve got to do it, you know, all the time, and which is the one thing that’s you know it’s been a little tough on


Greg Feasel: You know having people not always here so you know you got so many people working remotely.


Greg Feasel: And I think it’s whether it be families. Now, families are jammed in the houses right now, but that sense of community and camaraderie, you know, whether it’s in a clubhouse or locker room or in an office setting.


Greg Feasel: You know, we’re with each other here, you know, we are with our families, and then, you know, to your point earlier on high expectations.


Greg Feasel: You know, we have


Greg Feasel: Bank covenants, you know we we make commitments to Major League Baseball. We make commitments to our sponsors. We make promises to our fans and you know meeting all those expectations.


Greg Feasel: You’ve gotta, you gotta you know do it together. I love it.


David Horsager: Hey, my producer in here loves baseball. I don’t know if he’s gonna ask about baseball or not, but I always give an opportunity to ask a question to each guest and he’s getting his MBA sitting right here.


David Horsager: Listen, all the amazing people. We get the opportunity and everybody can what’s, what do you have, what do you have for a cat. A question for Greg visa.


David Horsager: So obviously the past year plus because of the pandemic and all the different things going on, has been definitely a challenge, to say the least.


David Horsager: For a lot of people, how, how have you been able to balance, like all these different expectations, all these different things. I mean, you have obviously


David Horsager: You’re running a business that’s obviously important, but like, how do you deal with all these different changes. I mean, especially with baseball. I mean, it’s like seasons. Not happening.


David Horsager: Then the spirits happening all those certain things. How do you deal with those different high kind of high stress times when you’re having to deal with all of these different scenarios and stuff. How have you been able to deal with that in a good way.


Sure.


Greg Feasel: Yeah. Somebody I don’t know where I know I heard it, or I read it that you know showed a picture of a bridge, and it was like five ton weight limit.


Greg Feasel: And, you know, there’s, you know, hundreds of tons that go over the bridge each day. But, you know, at one time, it can only handle five tons and, you know, we really, you know, especially this year. You take one thing at a time and


Greg Feasel: Yeah. And there you do have some people who, you know, they want to go. Okay, well what happens if six months down the road. Well, we’re not able to deal with that right now. So you deal with what’s in front of you and and


Greg Feasel: You know the toughest thing for a lot of people is to act and the second toughest thing is they don’t want to do the thing they fear the most. And


Greg Feasel: So many times, the thing to fear the most of those decisions that are right in front of us that have to be made, and then you make that decision. Then you move on to the next one and


Greg Feasel: That you know that fundamental process is is really the key to being able to sleep at night because you start, you know,


Greg Feasel: Putting just, I call it stacking. And we’ve all seen people that just okay they they stack the issues and they just keep stack and well you know the bridge is crushing if you’re stacking that bridge is toast. So


David Horsager: Love it.


David Horsager: Well, there’s a there’s a ton. Here we gotta


David Horsager: Give a quick little lightning round here. I mean, listen, already make it simple character.


David Horsager: Sit on the front row input equals output. It’s always about the fundamentals, especially alignment and leaders worst thing is not to know


David Horsager: Early riser. And one thing at a time don’t stack the issue. Funny thing, you know, General McChrystal and I enough that I’m close to anything, but we were both being interviewed on this panel.


David Horsager: Kind of early in the pandemic. So I got to hear what he said, which was much more brilliant lamb sure than anything I said, but we’re just, we’re there. And one thing he did say is


David Horsager: In crisis, you’ve got to boil it down, not just one key issue but you got to shorten the time frame which kind of goes to your one thing at a time.


David Horsager: He said, you know. Gone are the days, especially you think of the pandemic in April, May nobody knew it was going to happen right, he said, he said.


David Horsager: Get rid of that one year, you can still have a long term vision but get rid of that that one term goal of one term one year priority or one month. He said, You got to pull that what’s the, what’s the key thing for the team this week.


David Horsager: Absolutely.


David Horsager: What’s the good thing today.


David Horsager: And, you know, so, but in fact he talked about when he had that just really tough issue, I believe it was finding


David Horsager: Bin Laden and they just couldn’t get the Intel right and they could every day. They’re in the wrong spot and and they’re all over


David Horsager: You know, basically, Europe and a part of Asia, and part of North Africa and he’s responsible for all the troops and finally said we’re having a call. Every day. Every morning 2200 people were on that call.


David Horsager: Every morning, he said, what is there any new Intel today. Any new into this is our role. This is our job. What’s the until today. Anybody everybody’s on the call.


David Horsager: And after that call at the end of it. He would give us 15 minutes. So this is our point of attack right now this is where we’re going. This is what we’re doing, everybody right now this tell everybody. This any boil it down to this one.


David Horsager: Kind of thing every day and and one goal every day, kind of, you know, in the midst of crisis. So it’s kind of like, I think.


David Horsager: I think there was a lot of overwhelm over the last nine months, like, Oh, I’ve got all these things. And that kind of jumps at me another military idea friend of mine that was talking to in the middle of the


David Horsager: Kind of pandemic. I said, What’s working for you. And he said, well,


David Horsager: When I went through the the War College in the 19 1980s. I learned uka volatility, uncertainty complexity and ambiguity and when I have times of uncertainty.


David Horsager: We were taught to ask two questions ask what can I control and what should I do first.


David Horsager: Which basically is what you’re talking about here. Just what don’t stack it. What can I control turns up last seven, nine months, people that asked what they could control instead of whining about everything. They couldn’t control they found a lot of things they could control.


Greg Feasel: Yeah.


David Horsager: So then it’s boiling it down to the first thing so


David Horsager: Keep sharpening yourself Bible and there’s a lot of great stuff here. Any I got a final question for you in a moment, but any last resource or


David Horsager: Quote, or guiding principle that you just say, Boy, if I want to be a leader. This is something I live by, or think about anything else you would want to share in our short short time together today.


Greg Feasel: I don’t know if it’s earth shattering but I mean anything’s possible. I mean,


Greg Feasel: We live in a great country and


Greg Feasel: You know, I didn’t play it down a high school football and I ended up playing in the NFL. I don’t have a business degree.


Greg Feasel: And I’ve been 26 years with the Colorado Rockies.


Greg Feasel: And I’m considered a football guy. So, you know, don’t, don’t sell yourself short. I mean, really,


Greg Feasel: Are you are you looking at the horizon and


Greg Feasel: I think people they they let themselves get bogged down and or they’re looking at, you know, what’s happening in their neighbor’s yard versus focusing on what they can accomplish and


Greg Feasel: You know, I tell people all the time. Only in America could a guy like me be doing what I’m doing. Only in America.


David Horsager: That that is crazy. So I didn’t


David Horsager: We’re wrapping up but this is what we should have led WITH YOU DIDN’T PLAY A down


Greg Feasel: Of high school football. No, yeah, it was David. It was so bad that


Greg Feasel: Me and another kid my senior year had the same number. So we used to stand on opposite ends of the sideline, and I never went on any away trip.


Greg Feasel: And I mean you love least should I played a lot. No, but should you least put the kid in. Yeah, it should put the kid in but you know what I learned. You know, back to, you know, learning from things that don’t go right is


Greg Feasel: I mean, you can’t miss those things. You can’t miss those opportunities. You got a kid that’s been going to practice never missed a practice.


Greg Feasel: You know, put them in and


Greg Feasel: Call it respect call it the right thing, you know, put them in the game. You know what’s, what’s the big deal.


Greg Feasel: But you know it was a little tougher on my parents, but you know it was a it was a humbling experience. And then, you know, you know, the rest is, you know, kind of history. I went to junior college and then went to Abilene Christian, as you know, and


Greg Feasel: Your brother ended up with Pro.


David Horsager: Football so


Greg Feasel: Yep played Minnesota for a while. Yeah.


David Horsager: Yeah, right here and packers, too. So we got to see him one way or the other. Right.


Greg Feasel: Yeah.


David Horsager: Or was that just you at the Packers.


Greg Feasel: I was at the Packers. Yeah, yeah. He was at Seattle of Baltimore Minnesota and Seattle. Yeah.


David Horsager: Well, there’s a lot more wisdom in Greg feasible said we and I’m just really grateful to call you friend.


David Horsager: I am but I’m grateful to know you and to and to be better because of you. So thanks for being friends. Last question of the time together.


David Horsager: You know we call the show the trusted leader, the new book is coming out trusted leader. I’m certainly not perfect at it by any stretch, I note. I just know it’s the right way to be from the research.


David Horsager: Sure, and


David Horsager: But if if you had one you said here’s, you know, if you’re thinking of a trusted leader. Tell us about one that you think of. I know you’ve been around many, but who someone you trust the leader and why


Greg Feasel: Boy, that’s it. You know, it goes I it’s tough to single out any one person because I’m more of a guy that you know take something from this person take something from that person and


Greg Feasel: You know my dad was a great influence in my life and


Greg Feasel: Just his work ethic is character.


Greg Feasel: That a word means something which that all I mean trust is just wrapped in that and you know you tell somebody you’re going to do something and and you do it, and he lived, he lived his life that way and


Greg Feasel: And you know, I could


Greg Feasel: See the examples, you know, over and over again. When I grew up, of that’s what he did. I mean, he said he was going to show up and do this. He was going to show up and do it. And if something wasn’t right. He was going to say that it wasn’t right. So,


David Horsager: That’s great.


David Horsager: no better place to find someone to follow that in your dad and I know you’re a great one to hope linen Zoe and everybody are are doing well out there and


David Horsager: That is a treat to get to hear from Greg visa, Greg, thanks for being on


Greg Feasel: And thanks for thank you for


David Horsager: The, the friendship and that’s the trusted leader show we’ll look forward to seeing you next time, stay trusted

Ep. 6: Sam Horn on How to Get People’s Attention – And Their Business

In this episode, David sits down with Sam Horn, CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute, to discuss how to get people’s attention and in turn, their business.

Sam’s Bio:
Sam Horn is the CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute. Her 3 TEDx talks and 9 books – including Tongue Fu!, POP! and Washington Post bestseller Got Your Attention? – have been featured in New York Times, on NPR, and taught to hundreds of organizations worldwide including Intel, Cisco, Boeing, Capital One, Nationwide, YPO and Accenture. Sam was the Executive Director of the Maui Writers Conference for 17 years and the Pitch Coach for Springboard Enterprises, which has helped entrepreneurs generate $10 billion in funding. She is known for her ability to help people create one-of-a-kind brands, books, businesses, and high-stakes presentations that have scaled their impact – for good.

Sam’s Links:
Website: https://www.intrigueagency.com/
“POP” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3tVvM4m
“Tongue Fu” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3b3HGk8
“Got You Attention?” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2Ow96aD
“Someday is Not a Day in the Week” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2LU0Gcl
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samhorn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samhornintrigue/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/samhornintrigue
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samhornintrigue/

Key Quotes:
1. “Ink it when you think it.”
2. “We make our living from our mind.”
3. “The word “but” destroys trust.”
4. “And” advances conversation, “but” anchors it in an argument.”
5. “Time is the new trust.”
6. “The first way that we build trust online is that we start on time.”
7. “Anxiety can be defined in two words: not knowing.”
8. “Terse is worse.”
9. “If we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business.”
10. “We don’t want to be out of sight out of mind, we want to be top of mind.”
11. “When you’re first of your kind, you own the market.”
12. “If you want to corner the niche, create a niche.”
13. “When you’re one-of-a-kind you have no competition.”
14. “Rhyme is sublime because its remembered over time.”
15. “Don’t reread what you’ve written.”
16. “Progress produces pace. Pace produces mental momentum. Mental momentum produces flow.”
17. “Perfectionism is a form of procrastination.”
18. “We can put ourselves in the shoes of one person. We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea.”
19. “Someday is not a day in the week.”
20. “I have found if you love life, life will love you back.” – Authur Rubenstein
21. “To do what you love and feel that it matters – how could anything be more fun?” – Katherine Graham

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
The Social Dilemma documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m David Horsager and I have a special guest someone I from afar have looked up to for a long time. Please welcome the brilliant Sam Horn. How are you, Sam.


Sam Horn: David. I’m so glad to be here. Boy, are we going to have fun and I hope people. People have pen and paper because we’re going to ink it when we think it we’re going to jump right in and the thoughts are going to be flowing so fast, their fingers won’t be able to keep up sound good.


David Horsager: That sounds great. And, you know, some of you may or may not know she’s written nine books. She’s a best selling author, but I think this is interesting. She’s coaster consultant


David Horsager: Executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show the CEO of Travelocity she is a, you know, coaches and consulted with the Phantom of the Opera opera.


David Horsager: On Broadway Iron Man triathletes founders co founders, Director of the Disney Institute, you know, she has one of the fast paced innovative minds. I’ve seen I watched her 20 years ago.


David Horsager: Take a CEO onstage and just draw out ideas and be innovative. So Sam we’re, we are just thrilled that you’re here, you know, let’s start out with before we even get into it too much three things we should know about Sam horn.


Sam Horn: Hahaha I use. I play tennis at the White House. And I was playing with the DA, the head of defensive and and he said, grab the tennis balls. I’m thinking nuclear attack. No, it was the Fords Golden Retriever, who are coming to grab our tennis ball so I bet people don’t know that about me.


David Horsager: That’s a good one. That is a good one. And right now, you know, I think as we jump into some of what you think about a lot work that we talked a lot about leadership. Maybe before we get into even some of your books and brilliant ideas.


David Horsager: You what habits. We talked about personal leadership also leads to effective leadership publicly and what habits have you created or routines that have helped you be a better public leader in a way


Sam Horn: You know, David, you’re all about trust, and I believe as leaders we make our living from our mind and I really mean it about Inca when we think it and we have time for like a 62nd story about this.


David Horsager: Anytime anything from you.


Sam Horn: Okay, well, you know, do it. Jones, right. Another Hall of Fame speaker Dwight Jones former National Geographic photographer.


Sam Horn: So I’d asked to do it to the Maui writers conference and we’re walking the beach. The morning before


Sam Horn: And he was doing something that really puzzled me, we would be walking and he’d whip out a notebook and write something down and we’d walk another hundred yards to whip out that notebook write something down


Sam Horn: I said do it. What are you doing, and he said, Sam. I used to get these ideas. And I think all that should go in my keynote. Oh, I’ll put that in my column next week and then I forget about it.


Sam Horn: And I realized I was throwing away gold, and he said, I take a notebook with me wherever I go.


Sam Horn: And and when it occurs to me I jot it down in the moment, because I may not know when or where I’ll use it. I just know it’s going to be there waiting for me.


Sam Horn: And I believe that habit makes our life, our lab, you know, Annie Lamott said writers get to live life twice.


Sam Horn: And I think we get to live it thrice we live life more intensely and we’re more observant than when we see something that gets our eyebrows up we write it down. We share it, and then we hear back from people how they’ve used it. So isn’t that a better way to live.


David Horsager: Well that’s, that’s awesome. And every one of your books is just beautifully written and takeaways and inspiration. But before I go backwards and ask you about some things that have inspired me. What are you writing now.


Sam Horn: I’m working on tongue food too. And you’ve heard of techniques. Right.


Sam Horn: Well, these are talking weeks, you know, in a virtual world with cameras off and videos disengaged and people disengaged, how can we communicate and connect, even if we can’t see each other, even if the person’s on the other side of the world.


David Horsager: Let’s jump into that because I even wanted to go back to tongue foo, because, you know, when we think about trust.


David Horsager: Our greatest opportunity to build trust actually is not in first interaction. Our greatest opportunity to build it the fastest is in crisis.


David Horsager: In conflict and you gave some great takeaways and ideas of how you know think it by what you say and how you say it. You can build trust in conflict or crisis. Give us some ideas. If you’re willing


Sam Horn: All right. Now, by the way, people ask how does my mind work I juxtapose everything


Sam Horn: I think it is the quickest way to make a complex idea crystal clear. So right now, if people are watching this unless they’re driving and listening to it, get a piece of paper and put a vertical line right down the center


Sam Horn: We’re going to have words to lose on the left, we’re going to have words to use on the right. And since you’re about trusted leadership. These words on the left block trust. They sabotage trust.


Sam Horn: The words on the right, build trust they support trust.


Sam Horn: So I’m going to run right through my right over on the left, I’ll tell you, and then listen to the cumulative impact and then we’ll replace him with more proactive words on the right. So put down the word but right on the left.


Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying, but we tried that before and it didn’t work out. You did a good job on that. But you know, it’s like you forgot to the word but destroys trust. It makes it adversarial


Sam Horn: Next, put down the word should someone makes a mistake we said you should have been more careful. You should have brought that up in a staff meeting people resent us even if what we’re saying is right.


Sam Horn: Over on the left, put the word you need to mean we’re bosses right we tell people what to do. Here’s the thing. Do we know anyone who likes to be ordered around, you need to, you have to, you need to get it done today.


Sam Horn: Next one is can’t because I’m sorry. You know, I can’t help you with that because no you can’t do that because it hasn’t been approved yet.


Sam Horn: And I’ve got lots of them one more and then we’ll stop. There’s nothing. Hey, there’s nothing I can do. It’s not my fault. I didn’t make up the rules coven don’t blame me right all of those words will undermine our respect and our trust as a leader so want to know what to replace him with


David Horsager: I’d love to.


David Horsager: And everyone would


Sam Horn: Let’s deals in a little suspense right David


David Horsager: That’s right. I’m writing right now because you’re also making me think of other things, you know, other ideas or


Thoughts


David Horsager: Great. If


Sam Horn: We had more time than we would turn it over to your leaders and we would ask them, think about what do people say that makes him feel shut down. What do people say that causes resentment.


Sam Horn: What do people say that actually creates a conflict and we come up with these whole list on the left and then we show the shift and we replace him with these words on the right, so here’s but put and next to it.


Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying. And we tried that before and it didn’t work out. And do you have any ideas on how we can do that better.


Sam Horn: And advances conversations but anchors it in an argument. How about that word should


Sam Horn: When something goes wrong. We tell people what they should have done. Ah, over on the right, next time from now on in the future.


Sam Horn: Because now we’re being a coach, instead of a critic, we are shaping behavior, instead of shaming it and people are learning from their mistakes instead of losing face ready. Next one, or shall I stop at any time you can tell me to put a sock in a David


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: I love it. This is the, this is what we’re going for. I love this.


Sam Horn: All right.


David Horsager: Next one, everybody. I can speak for everybody. By the way, and I hear I interrupt, but I can tell everybody. Love you got


David Horsager: more energy than you know 95% of people and I just love it. But more than that, takeaways. We can use tomorrow morning. So thank you.


Sam Horn: That’s, that’s what we both value. Right. It’s like we’re leaders come on the clock starts ticking the second we start talking. Let’s get real life value we can apply immediately right


David Horsager: Absolutely and that’s what I saw 20 years ago and I know of still today. So thank you for that. Let’s go. You need to


Sam Horn: You need you.


Sam Horn: If you would, could you please instead of you need to get that done today, you know, could you please make sure that gets done today. It’s really important. So see, we give the rationale


Sam Horn: It’s just that people are a lot more likely to come to operate willingly instead of comply reluctantly. When we asked them, and treat them with respect, instead of ordering them around with those commands, right. Ready for the next one.


David Horsager: Ready can’t. Yeah, I can’t because


Sam Horn: Can as soon as I can, right after instead of no we can’t start this meeting because we’re still missing three of our board members.


Sam Horn: Yes, we can start the meeting as soon as those board members show up. And if they’re not here in five minutes. We’re going to get started. Anyway, thank you for your patience. Now, by the way, David, are you a father.


David Horsager: I have four kids.


Sam Horn: Or kids. Boom. Let’s talk about how we can use this at home. Right.


Sam Horn: It’s like a dad said this was going to change the way he parented he said Sam I had three kids under the age of 10


Sam Horn: It seems like all I ever do is tell them no. No, you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t done your homework, you can’t watch TV because you haven’t done your chores.


Sam Horn: And then we usually do what’s called stalking you know the rules around here that TV doesn’t go on until those chores are finished, how many times, you’ll have and we’re off and running. Right.


David Horsager: Absolutely. I hear it all. I can see it.


Sam Horn: Okay, now you do this change it instead of no you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t finished your chores. How would you turn that around.


David Horsager: You can’t. No, you can’t be on the, whatever it is. This video game and tell or as soon as you this


David Horsager: As soon as you have all your chores done or


Sam Horn: We can even turn it into a yes. Instead of no you can’t. Because yes, you can play with your friends.


Sam Horn: As soon as you finish your chores clean up your room. Take out the trash and then you can go out and shoot rooms.


Sam Horn: Yes, you can watch TV. As soon as you finish your homework, you know, do your math. Let me have a look at it. Then you can turn


Sam Horn: And AND YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS NOT semantics. It changes the whole dynamic of the relationship because when we say no, you can’t because they see us as blocking them from what it is they want when we say yes, you can. As soon as who’s responsible for getting what it is they want now.


David Horsager: We put the responsibility back on them.


David Horsager: Yes, I love it.


Sam Horn: That’s right.


David Horsager: As long as we’re into tongue foo. Let’s go to point O and say, what about a virtual environment. What about this world where and how do we build in our case, build trust and communicate well, even in this environment that we’re stuck in. And frankly, in many ways, that will be forever.


Sam Horn: You know, I just love this question, Richard Branson said time is the new money and you know what I say time is the new trust.


Sam Horn: And I think the first way that we build trust online is that we start on time is because did you know anxiety can be defined in two words, not knowing


Sam Horn: And if we log on and first if people say well I know we’re supposed to start, but we’re going to wait for late comers.


Sam Horn: What’s that about we’re honoring the late comers, not the p you know rewarded behavior gets repeated right. What are we teaching. So if we want people to trust us to always be a good use of their time. We always start on time, because time equals trust. Right.


David Horsager: No doubt, no doubt.


Sam Horn: The next thing is we book in our interactions with goodwill.


Sam Horn: And I’ll give you a quick example of this. I had an opportunity to do a webinar for very large organization and my contact the meeting planner spent a lot of time on this.


Sam Horn: And it went pretty well. And they had more people ever that signed up for this. They got wonderful comments in chat.


Sam Horn: And I was copied on the email of the CEO to the meeting planner, it had two lines in a David it said


Sam Horn: Why weren’t the PowerPoint slides on our template and why didn’t you think the sponsors.


Sam Horn: That was it. David didn’t say thing about the months of work into it didn’t say, Hey, congratulations on getting more people than we’ve had before. Hey, look at those comments.


Sam Horn: So here’s the prescription because we’re proactive, how can we do it better is to start every email with a reference to a previous interaction.


Sam Horn: Even if it’s a problem. It’s like, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am so glad you told us that you left three voice messages, who we haven’t gotten back yet.


Sam Horn: So it’s like, hey, how did that 10 K go you know if it’s like we reference something in the previous email because that sense of continuity and it personalizes it instead of having this terse is worse.


Sam Horn: And then we wrap up with like I’m it’s, it’s, I look forward. I look forward to seeing you next week. I look forward to getting you know feedback on this project.


Sam Horn: And if we start and we close. That’s called book ending and authors know this, that when we start warm and we end warm it gives people this full circle sense of completion.


Sam Horn: And they feel like they got what they came for. And we are making professional communication personal which warms up what otherwise is a cold medium.


David Horsager: Absolutely. Anything we, you know, with all this interaction. I just did a big global event today with hundreds of people on anything as communicators professional communicators, we should be thinking about to connect with the audience in that virtual environment. What can we do more of


Sam Horn: Names in places names in places, you know, people people feel remote right and they feel anonymous


Sam Horn: And that’s when they start feeling very distant and they feel a part from the group instead of feeling a part of the group.


Sam Horn: So when we asked for questions. It’s like, Hey Sue from St. Louis, you know, you got a question over here. And it’s a bob some for Santa Barbara, you know, it’s like


Sam Horn: Now people feel like they’re part of a community and they know oh my goodness there’s 30 countries on this call, you know, and we’ve got Jose from Mexico. And we’ve got so she’s for from


Sam Horn: And and by giving people names we give them an identity and even if we can’t name all 5000 people on the call. These are standing representatives, so people feel like we’re seeing them instead of just on automatic pilot giving a speech that we’ve given 100 times before.


David Horsager: I love it. Let’s we could go deeper on every one of these and I keep going and you tell us where you want to go to, because you’ve got so much, you’re thinking about right now but


David Horsager: Your book pop tell us just a glimpse about that because that was a fascinating one. And that was, you know, kind of, when I started know you. I think


Sam Horn: You know, thank you. In fact, I was so I was thrilled when Seth Godin got in touch and gave me the cover endorsement for the book. He said, a quarter of the way through this book you’ll be begging to hire Sam Hornish your consultant. I’m going. Thank you sell


David Horsager: Absolutely. So tell us about what what’s that stamp. What is pop. How do I get credit, you know, I can stand out in a crowd. I can create a competitive advantage.


David Horsager: What does that mean to pop


Sam Horn: Well, if we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business right


Sam Horn: And in a very crowded competitive society if we don’t have a secret sauce, if we aren’t doing something that isn’t on. How are we uncommon. How are we, unlike our competitors. So, of course, I’ve got dozens of techniques on how to do this. So shall we just give like P. O. P. Right now three


David Horsager: Do it. Yeah, let’s do that.


Sam Horn: Okay. So P is for purposeful and here’s my question to you is when people finish reading your website when they finish hearing your TEDx talk when they finish hearing your, your annual meeting, can they repeat anything they heard, word for word.


Sam Horn: Because if they can’t. That’s not purposeful. Now this idea comes from Garry Marshall, by the way, did you see the movie. Pretty Woman


Sam Horn: Yes. Okay. Gary was the director, producer, that he said something at Maui writers conference. It was so profound I remembered as if he said it this morning. He said, Hollywood directors can predict when their movies will make money based on one thing, guess what it was.


David Horsager: Purpose. Purpose.


Sam Horn: It. Yep, it is. That wasn’t a trick question, and


Sam Horn: It is. Can people repeat anything, word for word because if someone says seen any good movies recently and you say, make my day all be back. Show me the money.


Sam Horn: They have become brand ambassadors for you. They’re taking your work viral, so all of your leaders on your goal on your company’s website, you know,


Sam Horn: At the end of a presentation to your employees, say, What do you remember


Sam Horn: And if they can’t repeat anything, it means it’s out of sight, out of mind. We don’t want to be out of sight, out of mind. We want to be top of mind. And one way to do that is to make sure every communication has a stated purpose that is repeatable and repeatable.


David Horsager: That’s perfect. What about that. Oh.


Sam Horn: Okay, always for original and, you know, we’ve heard that there’s nothing new under the sun. Right.


Sam Horn: I disagree. I think that our success depends on coming up with something that’s new under the sun. Now I’ve got a lot of ways to do that. One is just to do the opposite of the always


Sam Horn: And here’s a wonderful example of that. Do you know that when enterprise entered the car rental agency market years ago.


Sam Horn: 80% market share hurts and Avis number one and number 280 percent market share.


Sam Horn: Now, why would you go into an industry that was owned by the big boys. Will you ask yourself two questions. What do they all do.


Sam Horn: Well, they’re all located at airports, so don’t locate in airports go in the neighborhoods. Right. And ask yourself. Another question, what do customers want


Sam Horn: That none of them are offering. What did customers want pick up and drop off service.


Sam Horn: So enterprise was first of its kind. And when you’re first of your kind you own the market, you have no competition. By the way, guess who owns the well. They don’t own, but they have the largest market share worldwide in that car rental agency in history.


Sam Horn: And history enterprise enterprise.


Sam Horn: Wow. And so see


Sam Horn: All of your leaders. I know that you you work with people around the globe in all kinds of different industries and if we think I can’t compete with them. You can, if your original and here are just two ways to do that. What are they all do.


Sam Horn: go head to head with them, right, I’m gonna go where they’re not. And then what do people want that they don’t offer and I’m going to be first to market with that.


David Horsager: I know something you say along those lines as you want to corner the niche create an edge.


David Horsager: Right. You want exactly right.


David Horsager: Or I this one too. When you’re one of a kind. You have no competition.


David Horsager: Well, live it and said, All right, let’s go to that final P on pop


Sam Horn: Okay, now I’ve switched this around, since I wrote the book pop edit and this one is for promote


Sam Horn: Because I really believe that that leaders kind of feel like they’re like doctors and lawyers used to be. It’s like we don’t self promote right i mean that’s like been below me. That’s beneath me and it’s out of integrity.


Sam Horn: And I really believe if you believe in what you care about. If you have a cause. If you believe in your company.


Sam Horn: If you are not promoting it through speaking at a TEDx or through a quality book, you know, people may not be aware of it. And that doesn’t serve any good purpose doesn’t. So do we have


Sam Horn: Time for very courteous. Okay, so I was hired by a health executive I had a big Six Sigma training company and he was going to be speaking at a medical conference.


Sam Horn: And it was good news, bad news. At first he speaking at this medical conference with thousands of decision makers in the healthcare industry.


Sam Horn: The bad news. Was he was going on the fourth day of a four day conference in the afternoon. He said, Sam. I don’t even think people kind of be around.


Sam Horn: So I talked him through my seven p process to come up with something that would help him pop out of the brochure and that would motivate these decision makers to come to his session.


Sam Horn: Now I’m not going to go through the whole process just suffice it to say that one of the ways we pop out is that we leverage what you do.


Sam Horn: As a hobby or special interest. It is a way to make what is familiar fresh and so I said, What do you do when you’re not working.


Sam Horn: It’s them. I’m never not working. I’m on the road. Five, six days a week. I said, well, when you’re home. Do you and your wife do anything. He says, Well, sometimes I play. I mean, I watch law and order at the TV show thing though I knew what it was.


Sam Horn: Now you know what six sigma


David Horsager: Is right David, of course.


Sam Horn: If you were going to explain it to our audience what is six sigma. So, people kind of understand it.


David Horsager: Well, I’ve never been through it, but I would say it’s it’s creating a taking out any extras and making a lean environment. So no, no extra


Sam Horn: Oh, you just did it is that they they figure out the errors. The, the inconsistency is the inefficiencies and they clean them out. So it’s lean and so they have a very highly efficient highly profitable system right


Sam Horn: So when he said he watches flaw and or when he watches law in order go I knew what we’re going to call this program. Guess what it was called


Sam Horn: Flaw in order


Yes.


David Horsager: Well, how do you stay


David Horsager: How do you stay so creative and innovative. I mean, how do you keep that mind thinking, you know, it seems like


David Horsager: Some people could be listening to you and saying, well, she just connects these things she did they just come out of her head, and certainly there’s a gifting but there also is almost, it seems like a, a way of doing it that that makes you creative and fresh even right now.


Sam Horn: You know, first, thank you for that. And I think that’s why Seth, who is a very generous supporter of other business authors and entrepreneurs why he endorsed that book is that


Sam Horn: There are techniques in pop that can help you be creative, even if you’re not creative. One of them is called alpha appetising


Sam Horn: You actually go through your website, you go through a presentation you give you pull out 10 to 20 words. That’s your word bank.


Sam Horn: Then you run them through the alphabet. Think about it. Tongue foo is an alpha ties form of Kung Fu


Sam Horn: Someone said this is kind of like a verbal form of Kung Fu run it through the alphabet on food been food some food done Foo Young food.


Sam Horn: eventually get to tongue food right you don’t stop there though there’s unto others fun foo, how to handle hassles with the humor and there’s let’s see tongue sue for lawyers and then there’s young food for kids.


David Horsager: Are you go, wow.


Sam Horn: And if your leaders are thinking, Sam. That’s


Sam Horn: cutesy. Hey, I’m a sophisticated executive of a multi million dollar billion dollar company. We’re not always talking about cutesy. In fact, can I tell you


Sam Horn: About an example that saves lives with what we’re doing. It’s, it’s not cutesy. It’s not word play. It’s bottom line saving lives. Do we have time.


David Horsager: What is it, please.


David Horsager: No, please don’t, we don’t want to save any lives.


David Horsager: Absolutely. Keep on. That’s great. What, what is it,


Sam Horn: Well, we talked about how to come up with airtight sound bites. Right. So what we say is repeatable repeatable and the R stands for Ryan Ryan is sublime because it’s remembered over time.


Sam Horn: So the US government was very concerned about injuries and fatalities and accidents, so they mounted a multi million dollar


Sam Horn: Public Service campaign and it was called buckle up for safety. Oh, clunky right you know nothing changed nothing happened. They went back to the drawing board. This time they came up with a rhyme. Guess what it was.


David Horsager: I got to hear it.


Sam Horn: Click It or Ticket David compliance went up and injuries and fatalities went down.


Sam Horn: Do you see this as not silly wordplay. It is the difference between what we say goes on uninterested ears and no behavior change or whether people see it and they’re motivated to change their behavior and actually reduce fatalities and injuries.


David Horsager: Right. So let’s take, you know, you were, you were for years and years, the Executive Director of the Maui writers


David Horsager: Conference most, one of the most notable writers events in the world, but you’re a writer and a speaker and a leader and all these things. But let’s go to writing because


David Horsager: Do you have a discipline of writing every day. THE LAST GUEST. I had was big on journaling and just how just journaling helped him lead as a leader, but tell us about the discipline of it for you.


Sam Horn: If, if you said, Sam. You can only give one tip after helping many, many, many people with their books and so forth. You can only give one tip. Do you know what it would be.


David Horsager: I, I can’t wait to hear it.


Sam Horn: Don’t reread what you’ve written because if you reread what you’ve written your rewrite what you’ve written and at the end of the week. It won’t necessarily be better. It will just be different.


Sam Horn: Progress produces pace pace produces mental momentum mental momentum produces flow, flow is that stream of conscious state. Not that self conscious state.


Sam Horn: Because if we edit as we go. The critical voice kills the creative voice, we come to a screeching halt. Now we’re stuck right


Sam Horn: And the way to get out of that is produce produce produce produce produce produce predict, that’s when the voice comes out and plays because it knows it’s not going to get judged.


David Horsager: And yet, at some point, it seems like we’re going to be judged. We have to critique my wise older brother, the economist says you were in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think right


David Horsager: If you’re a leader.


David Horsager: Leader, you want to be critiqued for living give a speech, write a book or lead anything so


David Horsager: How do we do this.


Sam Horn: And then this is a two part answer because obviously when we finish five chapters. We reread them right when we finish a blog and we set it aside for day we come back with fresh eyes and at that point.


Sam Horn: You see the key though is first, get it written then get it right draft then craft. Most of us we craft as we’re drafting, you know, we’re editing as we go.


Sam Horn: We’re trying to get it right. As we get it written. And when we do that, it will probably never get out the door because perfectionism is a form of procrastination.


David Horsager: So let’s go long form, you’re an amazing storyteller. Tell us about the power of story and and how you leverage story as a leader.


Sam Horn: David, we could do this all day couldn’t


David Horsager: Be good. And I’m going to suck the life out of your brain with the few minutes that I have


Sam Horn: Okay, well this is credit to Shankar Vedanta Sean Connery Don time who does hidden brain on NPR wrote an article in the Washington Post years ago.


Sam Horn: About and this does get to storytelling. In fact, it’s probably one of the most eye opening insights about the power of storytelling to motivate people to care about what we care about. So, so hang in there because it does serve a purpose. Okay.


Sam Horn: Here is this oil tanker they’re caught fire 800 miles off the coast of Hawaii and a cruise ship happened to be going by and was able to rescue the 11 people


Sam Horn: The captain gave a press conference and he talked about how grateful he was to be rescued all he can think about is his dog that got left behind abandoned on the tanker


Sam Horn: And that press conference went viral and donations started pouring in from around the world $5 $500 $5,000


Sam Horn: The US Navy change the exercise area of the Pacific Fleet they searched 50,000 square miles of open ocean, they find the tanker


Sam Horn: They send the C 130 to fly low to see if there’s any signs of life. Here’s this brown and white blur racing up and down the deck of a tanker


Sam Horn: They mount a quarter of a million dollar rescue mission to get this dog and they are able to bring hot get back to Hawaii. Now, what’s the point


Sam Horn: Here’s the point. Why did people from around the world mobilize to save one dog when there are thousands of people in our own cities and states and countries going without food, water and shelter.


Sam Horn: It’s because of something called the empathy telescope and the empathy telescope says we can put ourselves in the shoes of one person.


Sam Horn: We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea. We can put ourselves in the shoes of an individual, we cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an organization.


Sam Horn: So every leader who is listening to this, David, what is your dog going to take her story.


Sam Horn: Because if we want people to care about what we care about. If we’re just trotting out big numbers. That’s when people look away because it seems overwhelming.


Sam Horn: And when we’re overwhelmed. We’re mobilized if we tell the story of one person.


Sam Horn: Who had a problem or challenge and work with us or bought our product or used our services and now they’re better off, we can identify without one person that’s when we relate to it. That’s when we remember it. And that’s when we want it.


David Horsager: That is powerful.


David Horsager: We can put ourselves only in the shoes of one person.


David Horsager: So there’s a whole lot more. We could cover, but let’s think you’ve written some on productivity and we often get right at some tips, people can take tomorrow that would help them be better, more effective, more efficient as leaders. What’s the tip of the day for us from Sam horn.


Sam Horn: It someday is not a day in the week.


Sam Horn: And that Paulo Coelho said that one day, we’re going to wake up and there won’t be any time left to do the things we’ve always wanted to do.


Sam Horn: And when I work with leaders. We often say, What’s your legacy message, you know, what’s your legacy project.


Sam Horn: How can we leverage your E your experience, your expertise and your Tiffany’s so everything you’ve learned along the way, doesn’t just stay up here.


Sam Horn: It’s out there making a difference for people and will be out there making a difference for people long after you’re gone. So what is that, and then start it put a date on the calendar instead of waiting for someday that may never come.


David Horsager: So what about you.


David Horsager: What’s your, what do you hope for you look out in the future. Let’s, let’s, Sam horns someday or out there or vision for what’s ahead, you’ve done so many remarkable things many things you’ve done through others by equipping and encouraging and impacting them.


David Horsager: What is it for you.


Sam Horn: You know, David. And once again, credit to this Jan Struthers came up with a quote. She said she was twice blessed, she was happy and she knew it.


Sam Horn: Is that lovely and I am so happy and I know it. And so I have a foot in both worlds. I live in Austin, Texas. Now, and


Sam Horn: My son and his family and my grandson live 12 minutes away. And so, one foot is in this world where everything is right in my world. I love where I am. I love my friends and my family and the time to spend with them.


Sam Horn: And the other foot is is in an icky guy. And are you familiar with the phrase achy guy, by any chance,


David Horsager: I’m not


Sam Horn: It’s it’s a Japanese word. It means a reason to get up in the morning. So what is your EQ guy goal and mine right now in tandem side by side.


Sam Horn: Is is getting the tongue.


Sam Horn: Book out in the world next year so that people can use these techniques at work at home online and in public.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Well, let’s let’s keep going.


David Horsager: Just keep we got to come back on as that book comes out. Let’s come back and and talk about this more but we go as we head to the end here, we hit a lightning round for everybody. It’s your turn, but


David Horsager: Let’s just start and we’ll get to anything else. If you want to cover something else after that you feel like, boy, I’ve got to share this. I want to hear it.


David Horsager: So,


David Horsager: Here we go. Favorite book or resource right now.


Sam Horn: Oh right now who, you know, what I would recommend a social dilemma on Netflix, you know, it’s, it is an eye opener about the addiction to social media and the ripple effect of isolation and depression and disconnection.


David Horsager: We watch very little TV. One of our biggest


David Horsager: Acts for my wife and I, is dealing with the kids on screen time and we watched it as a family. We talked about we had put parameters in place and whatnot, but very powerful and I can’t agree more. What’s something you can’t live without.


Sam Horn: Walking walking and swimming. I’m I’ve got a pool five minutes away in nature, open lanes. No, no, sharing lanes people kicking you in your face and so forth. So walking and swimming. I’m a happy camper.


David Horsager: Is I love it any key. Speaking of that, you know, leading yourself as important to leading others so unique key personal habit or routine, you have that just makes you better as a person or leader.


Sam Horn: It’s it’s clarify my three C’s and these are my non negotiable is everyday.


Sam Horn: Dale Carnegie said to live in a tight compartments and I believe in living in day right compartments. So I asked all of us to think, what are three things we do.


Sam Horn: And at the end of the day, no matter what else happened if we do these three we feel we did our half and those who may or connect contribute and cohort.


David Horsager: What was your cohort, most recently.


Sam Horn: My, my cohort is to move joyously you know and and really so like, yeah, I do laps. I, however, and I understand the importance of exercise and sweating and anaerobic and heart rate and so forth.


Sam Horn: However cavorting is doing what tick not Han said is to walk as if your feet are kissing the earth.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: I love it. Wow. Well, you shared many of them. And I know you have more. So what is a quote or thought to live by.


Sam Horn: It for me. Uh, well, can I do too.


Sam Horn: Is I often start every presentation with this quote because it really is a mantra for life is that Arthur Rubinstein said I have found if you love life, life will love you back.


Sam Horn: You know, and then I usually say, I love this program and to help you love it back, etc. However, I believe, go first. Right. We love life and then it will love us back.


Sam Horn: And the second is the one you and I shared at the beginning, David. It’s what Katharine Graham of The Washington Post said a reporter asked her what it was like running at that point, one of the country’s most important newspapers and she thought about it for a moment, she said.


Sam Horn: To do what you love and feel that it matters how could anything be more fun. Well, that’s what we get to do we get to do what we love feel that it matters and do it with people we enjoy and respect that put the light on in her eyes.


Sam Horn: Pretty good.


David Horsager: Isn’t it on deniability. I love it.


David Horsager: You got a question for us today can’t. I’m going to go to me first. My favorite food is ice cream. Everybody knows that. My favorite flavor. I will not share to influence you. But what’s your favorite flavor of ice cream.


Huh.


Sam Horn: Huh, I guess it’s let’s give a shout out to Ben and Jerry’s is is everything but the, whatever. It’s got everything but the


Kitchen Sink


David Horsager: Maybe for you. I should say this. What’s your favorite food.


Hmm.


Sam Horn: You know, I would have to say what what I’m just going top of mine right now, fresh watermelon right batches.


David Horsager: Absolutely.


David Horsager: And for someone who loves, loves Hawaii. And, you know, just the summertime fun. Not that not that watermelons are known in Hawaii, but


David Horsager: Great. Well, I’ve got one more big question for you. But before we do that,


David Horsager: What a treat in this conversation. Sam, where can our listeners, find out more about you will put it all in the show notes. We’re going to put some connections. The Sam horn and


David Horsager: Her amazing books and tips and takeaways and where you can find out more about her, but give us the first place we should go.


Sam Horn: Thank you for doing that, David, it’s easy, it’s intrigue agency com so it’s i n TR I G agency, there’s information there about my pop master classes and my


Sam Horn: writing workshops and my TEDx talk is on there as well on how to get people’s eyebrows up in the first 60 seconds so intrigue agency com


David Horsager: Intrigue agency and she has more than one TED talk. I won’t TEDx talk, I’ll let you know she has a few and they’re all fantastic. So Sam. What a treat to have you here. Here’s the final question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Hmm.


Sam Horn: You know I trusted and he’s still around. Rod Laver I had the the privilege of working with Rod Laver won the Grand Slam of tennis twice Australian French Wimbledon.


Sam Horn: And one of the reasons that I trusted rocket is that he was such a class act he worked hard and he played hard and he was he was perpetually gracious


Sam Horn: You know, people would come up and say, I saw you play in St. Louis. He was always kind to every single person he met and so kudos to rocket for the example of class that he said it was enjoy working with him. What a treat to see people


David Horsager: That have class, as we say say onstage and off right


David Horsager: So well, it is been a delight. Thank you, Sam horn, for joining me. Thank you for the gift. You’ve given to our audience. And of course, you can find a whole lot more about Sam horn at trusted leader show.com


David Horsager: Look forward to seeing you next time and stay trusted

Ep. 5: Walter Bond on Why Leaders Should Coach And Not Be Fruit Inspectors

In this episode, David sits down with Walter Bond, Former NBA player, award winning speaker, trainer, and author, to discuss the Shark Mindset and why the best leaders are coaches and not fruit inspectors.

Walter’s Bio:
Walter’s mastery in two different global industries has made him an authority on peak performance. Walter has delivered his entertaining and dynamic message to companies and associations throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Europe. Clients include Accenture, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, The Dwyer Group, Allianz, Amway, GNC, Hilton, Medtronic, UPS Store, Radio Shack, Red Robin and many national associations.

Walter’s passion for personal development has been anchored by his professional basketball career. Although a reserve throughout his college basketball career at the University of Minnesota, Bond miraculously enjoyed an eight-year career while spending time as a shooting guard for teams such as the Dallas Mavericks, Utah Jazz and Detroit Pistons. This is where he learned peak performance truths that he has also applied to a wildly successful speaking career. Bond’s college basketball career did not say NBA at all. Only hard work, dedication and commitment got him there. That mentality is what he wants to share with your audience. Whether it’s a new product launch, hitting sales goals, gelling as a team Bond is passionate about sharing his 31 Truths to Boost Peak Performance.

In 2013, Walter appeared as the host of The Food Network’s show Giving You The Business. Walter was chosen over numerous candidates because of his infectious personality and franchise business experience. Episodes featured restaurants such as Saladworks, Famous Familia, Toppers and Jersey Mike’s.

Walter’s Links:
“SWIM” Book: https://amzn.to/3b26VDj
Website: https://walterbond.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WalterBondMotivationalSpeaker
Twitter: https://twitter.com/walterbond
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/walter_bond/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/walterbond/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/WalterBondMotivation

Key Quotes:
1. “Its your job to develop your people.”
2. “Smart companies are really training and developing organizations at their core.”
3. “Your average employee is who you need to focus on.”
4. “Are you a coach or are you a fruit inspector?”
5. “What are you doing with your human capital?”
6. “If you don’t have a way, all the individuals you hire are going to bring their own value systems.”
7. “You can’t be a great leader and be selfish!”
8. “Until you get down to that middle manager, you really have not built a culture.”
9. “Ownership is how you build culture.”
10. “A coach’s job is to identify a talent and then position that talent so they can reach their potential.”
11. “Great leaders build trust over time.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Traction” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3aeIL9A
“Rocket Fuel” by Gino Wickman: https://amzn.to/3aiJXbV

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager back with you and I have a dear friend of mine, the NBA star, the


David Horsager: Speaker hall of famer, the author the board member and just a dear friend, we’ve been we’re on mastermind group.


David Horsager: 20 years ago maybe together, but his name is Walter Bond and probably I saw him before he saw me because I remember Walter when you played for the great University of Minnesota.


David Horsager: And our basketball team. I was still in high school basketball team. And we came to watch you guys go to the sweet 16 in the Elite Eight and we’re sitting up in the barn wishing we were you guys and I watched you those years. So that was a fun treat. But, welcome to the show.


Walter Bond: Well, thanks day, you know, that was a long time ago, a lot of pounds ago you know


Walter Bond: Core. I’m an athlete and that’s what kind of taught me about life. They taught me about success principles and


Walter Bond: Then I just thank God that I chose the University of Minnesota was a great experience. And, you know, really set the platform for us to launch our training and development company and now raise my kids and myself. And so, thanks for having


David Horsager: Well, I am thrilled to have you. So it’s great to be here and I, you know, when we were starting out, we talked about this a little bit before the show, you know,


David Horsager: 20 years ago or whatever it was worth we’re moving on. I had been Director of an organization you had been of course in the NBA and and


David Horsager: You’ve had some other great leadership experiences because of that. But we’re starting to speak more and


David Horsager: I still remember some of those days were starting out and but now you’ve built quite a company into this great training and development company, you know,


David Horsager: Maybe even start with what are some of the setbacks with some of the challenges. How have you grown what you’ve grown today. I mean, you can start twice, at least in in in leadership business in life.


Walter Bond: We all day. Sometimes you have to reinvent, you know, and I want to cause any leader listening today, it’s okay. You know, because sometimes you have to ship.


Walter Bond: And when my basketball career was over as an athlete you know it’s going to end. One day, you just don’t know when. So


Walter Bond: When you play ball at a young age like 789 with the dream of playing in the NBA. And then you make it right. And then you plan to your 31 resolved literally day when I left the NBA.


Walter Bond: I know nothing about business all I understood was basketball. And so I had a wife and three kids and I never made the big money. And so I looked at my checking account.


Walter Bond: We had about a year to figure it out. And we stumbled into the speaking business and I’ve never had a real job. I’ve never been hired by a company


Walter Bond: So my wife and I literally figured it out from scratch. So everything we do is real, it’s organic. It is free of any corporate muck.


Walter Bond: Or any corporate politics. And for a long time. I thought that was a disadvantage.


Walter Bond: You know, because I want to speak to kids. When I first started speaking, you know, I would go to high schools and middle schools.


Walter Bond: Because at the time I didn’t feel equipped or worthy of speaking to accompany because I never had a real job but parents would hear me speak to the basketball team and high school kids.


Walter Bond: And the parents built my confidence and they will come to me. Dave and say, hey, our company needs to hear this. Oh boy. We’re dealing with this inside of our assumption. And I would say, like, really, and before I knew it, we left the youth market and we got into corporate america and while


Walter Bond: The rest is history, as they say. But you know, I really appreciate not having this huge corporate background and now sitting on corporate boards. So my whole mentality is


Walter Bond: Is simplistic and simple because most companies overthink everything, you know, a massive, massive fundamentals. The same thing is true for this.


David Horsager: Well, I say it all the time. You know I love and I’ve delved into research because I don’t want it to be just some, you know, kind of cheesy motivational idea.


David Horsager: But what we’ve learned is, if you don’t simplify it. No one will use it. It’s got to be so simple, in the midst of our crazy hectic world as leaders, I’ll use it tomorrow. So I, for me, not from basketball so much as


David Horsager: I think we were like one in 19 my senior year of high school, even though I was the captain, obviously, that was a that wasn’t something to be proud of right then.


David Horsager: But, but I think for me was growing up on the farm. You know, it’s like what it’s simple, clear truth that we got to cultivate it you gotta weed it you gotta do this, you get to that and and you know that a lot of that.


David Horsager: overlaps with business, but you’ve been now you’ve been on boards and all this. But let’s go back to basketball because


David Horsager: A lot of what you learn in teams there. You’ve brought to great high performing companies and you’ve spoken. Just so people know, and many do know you, but they know you’ve spoken to some of the biggest companies at some of the biggest events.


David Horsager: We got inducted into the speaker Hall of Fame, about the same time you are ahead of me.


David Horsager: At you are, you’re out there, you’re working and you’re actually leading and you’re asked for leadership advice and advising


David Horsager: Many of the greats even you know boards. So how do you, how do you relate what you learned in basketball or being a teammate to what you’re doing now and how you’re equipping boards to perform at their best, or excuse me, companies.


Walter Bond: Yeah, you know, again, it all started with sports and I’m hoping for that. You know, honestly, my father was my high school principal and honestly that’s really


Walter Bond: When I began to understand leadership and, you know, throughout my sports career. You know, I had some amazing coaches and I had a few bad ones and


Walter Bond: Each opportunity I learned in fact my first team. I played on it was called the eagles, and we did not win one game, the whole entire season.


Walter Bond: And I remember my coach smell flowers and when you seven, eight years old. I didn’t know what that meant. He just had this funny smell. Long story short, my first baseball coach was an alcoholic.


Walter Bond: And he will come to practice drunk every day set no expectations. We didn’t practice. Are we didn’t improve that we were just awful.


Walter Bond: The good news is that team stayed together and we got a new coach same player new coach. His name is Mike


Walter Bond: And Mike flag build our confidence. He said expectations and by the time we were 12 years old, our team was dominant


Walter Bond: And so I saw the transformation, we went from the Bad News Bears with the coach a leader who was alcoholic and bless his heart. He had a problem, but he did not have influence over our team. The Same guy. Same players.


Walter Bond: Different coach different leader transformed us into a dominant team. And so that’s how I begin understanding life before I was even 12 years old.


Walter Bond: And I ended up flunking out of a first high school. I don’t even know if you know that I went to the top academic School in Chicago and these were the smartest kids will Chicago and I got my lunch, hand it to me.


Walter Bond: Because I didn’t think I was the smartest, they were you know I always was competitive athletically always did great socially. But when I got to this high school


Walter Bond: I was basically defeated the day school started because all these kids with smart and I never even competed in the classroom. So I transferred to my dance school


Walter Bond: In the hood and one of the lowest income areas of Chicago, and I saw my badly I saw him operate. I saw him build confidence. I saw him set expectations.


Walter Bond: And before I knew it, I began to not only have an amazing father


Walter Bond: My high school principal was amazing as well. And then I go to college and play for a great coach like Clem Haskins because hassles was a demand.


Walter Bond: I mean, he drove you he made you get better in every year. This player development was off the chain that man produce more NBA players and probably any goal for coaching history and he wasn’t winning in a recruiting that


Walter Bond: He will get his hands on a raw talent and he will develop it. And so that’s my message for any leader, you know, it’s your job to develop your people. You know what I love sports and got into business, David.


Walter Bond: I was disappointed in the player development inside of companies, you just hire, fire people. Oh, you had a person you on board and now developer


Walter Bond: And so that’s what we really bring to our corporate clients and this is my final comment.


Walter Bond: On that little tangent, I just give you the smart companies are really training and development organizations out there. Cool.


Walter Bond: And if any leader can get that, that it’s my job to change the culture. It’s my job to develop people training and development is a no brainer. And that’s what we’re bringing to our fights.


David Horsager: I love it. So, you know, one thing you talked about and you got the new book called swim and you talk about this responsibility of leaders to really


David Horsager: Be mentors, not just run through people but develop them tell it. Tell me, how do you do it, how does it we we got leaders on today from fortune 500 to


David Horsager: Two small companies, but they’re developing people and they they are. They’re about ready to fire him because they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. And, and yet, could they devote. How would they go about that. How would you go about that.


Walter Bond: No, no, here’s a true, you know, we follow sports and everyone focuses on LeBron and Kobe and Tom Brady is so easy for people to focus on superstars.


Walter Bond: But there’s only a handful of, you know, even in the average high school, you got some a students, obviously, you got some brilliant kids.


Walter Bond: You got some kids, causing problems and we always talk about the 8020 rule right where 20% of people do you know 80% of the work or, you know, even in financial services, for example.


Walter Bond: They always do these events and they take their high performers to these incentive trips


Walter Bond: And it’s the same people who qualify every year and always asking business leaders, and what are you doing to see students


Walter Bond: Why do I ask a question day I flunked out on my first High School. He or am as a thought leader sitting on corporate boards writing best selling books and I flunked out of high school.


Walter Bond: But let me tell you what my high school principal did at my second High School. He built my confidence and he said expectation


Walter Bond: He built my confidence and set expectation at the University of Minnesota. I was a highly polluted right but I sat down with my coach every year and I would ask them task is, what do I need to do to play in the NBA.


Walter Bond: And he would tell me. Right. You gotta lose 15 pounds. You got to work with you. Nothing. Come on, let’s get the gym and rebuild your junction


Walter Bond: Right, let’s go and practice this word Carson, get in better shape and four years later, I’m in the NBA. Of course he’s one of my favorite leaders, of course I talk about them all the time.


Walter Bond: Right, so I’ll change any leader or your people talking about, you know, if I sat down with all of your subordinates and ask them, Who is your favorite leader. And why would they even mention your name.


Walter Bond: Right. And so if you go back to school. We all have a favorite teacher. Why, because that favorite teacher had impact.


Walter Bond: They either built our confidence or they supported us so they they work with us one on one. You know, I’ve worked with so many people that the smart companies and smart leaders get this your average employee is who you need to focus on


Walter Bond: stop focusing all your top producers and these incentive trips your C student your air average performer is 60% of your organization.


Walter Bond: That’s my training and development is so important. Your superstars. They showed up as superstars your leadership experience is going to be based on what did you do with your C student


Walter Bond: So my father knows he had impact comes Haskins knows what he did with me.


Walter Bond: As an average recruit average ball player that’s what leaders should be focused on


David Horsager: So I’ve got, I’ve got an average recruiter average players. I mean, that is, how do you instill I mean this could be from people’s kids to people’s employees. Right. How do I build confidence, how do, how did you, how did people build confidence in you. How does that happen.


Walter Bond: Well, you know, here’s what I challenge my audience with and I love the fact that now they were in these big venues these big ballrooms with these big leaders and I don’t back down.


Walter Bond: I challenged them and I basically asked the question I want to ask right now and any leader, I want to ask you the same question right now. Are you a coach or you are certain specs.


Walter Bond: Are you a coach or are you a fruit inspector. You don’t want to be as doing spec fruit. You go to the grocery store and you grab apples and you look at him and say this apples.


Walter Bond: Apples bad this orange looks good. It looks bad this banana looks good. It’s banana looks bad, and you’re just choosing right but but a couch.


Walter Bond: They develop their people and so fruit inspectors have a high turnover. Okay. Fruit inspectors don’t build confidence fruit inspectors don’t build the right culture that is trying


Walter Bond: To get star players to hopefully make them look good. A real coach will take a raw material and say, You know what, this person has potential


Walter Bond: But it’s my job to help them reach their potential. And so what we do with our leadership trainings and all of our leadership programs. And that’s why I wrote the book swim.


Walter Bond: The star. The book swim is a guy named drew, and he on purpose. Went and recruited misfits but he plugged them into their training and development program.


Walter Bond: And he built an amazing at that company with broken people, you know, we have people out here who obviously are imperfect who are flawed, who have weaknesses and that’s what great coaches come in.


Walter Bond: And if you can become a great coach as a leader with simply means I get that you have numbers, you have to hit you have to responsibilities that you have to keep the stock price.


Walter Bond: But a big part of your job is player development. What are you doing with your human capital and if we can teach day that leaders how important if you talk about a trusted leader.


Walter Bond: You helped me develop man. I’m going to trust you. And not only that, I’m going to run through a wall for you.


Walter Bond: So any smart leader will become a coach, instead of being a fruit inspector and when you become a coach, the people that you lead are going to naturally trust you because you help them to though.


David Horsager: I love it. You know, a lot of what you talked about at least over the years since we were in a mastermind. I don’t know, over a decade ago together as you talk about team.


David Horsager: And you talk about discipline and accountability and I still remember you know Karl Malone was an example. The you tell us about that.


Walter Bond: You know Carmelo and john Stockton and I gotta Jerry slow story that I love to tell you know Karl Malone.


Walter Bond: Arguably the greatest power for one of all time. This guy lifted weights every single day and it was very disciplined with his body. I mean, he was 692 hundred and 56 pounds.


Walter Bond: And we will go out and he and I would think he was a jerk and very difficult in restaurants.


Walter Bond: He would tell the waiter. You know, I want a grilled chicken caesar salad. But when you grew my chicken breasts. Don’t put in the chat box on my chicken breasts.


Walter Bond: And I will go behind his back. Apologize. I’m thinking he’s been difficult. Just arrogant me I eat whatever they brought me French rather than order, but they look good milkshake.


Walter Bond: You know, I sit nothing back. And long story short, he had one of the best bodies of all time and my coaches always told me I needed to lose weight.


Walter Bond: Karl Malone was incredibly disciplined and I’m telling you. He lifted weights.


Walter Bond: Every single day john Stockton. My God, he went to a chiropractor four times a day. There’s a chiropractor in Utah, that he made famous Stockton played until he was 14 years old.


Walter Bond: And both of these guys were extremely different discipline extremely focused love playing basketball but just the discipline that I learned for both of these guys.


Walter Bond: was unbelievable. But the kicker with Jerry Sloan Jerry Sloan just passed away and I went out to Utah to honor him because he has such an impact on my life because he taught me something very valuable. We didn’t scrimmage. In practice, and I’m trying to make the team.


Walter Bond: And I’m trying to figure out, Jerry.


Walter Bond: We’re basketball players, but we don’t play basketball. All we did with drills day


Walter Bond: All we did with your so I go to Jerry Sloan. And I said, Jerry. I’m trying to make your team, but since we don’t scrimmage and practice.


Walter Bond: I feel like I can show you what I can do. I’m stressing out my MBA careers on life support. I got a wife. I got three kids, but this was his answer was Dave and it really


Walter Bond: Is one of the pillars of our training and development company, and it really changed my life as it relates to life after basketball. He said, Walter already know what you can do.


Walter Bond: But if you want to make my team, I suggest you listen follow directions and execute. If you listen


Walter Bond: If you follow directions. And if you execute. You’ll be fine. So what he was really saying day is like, look, I want to see if you can follow the Utah Jazz way. I know you are good ball player on your own.


Walter Bond: But if you want to make my team. You got to play the Utah Jazz way chick fil a has a way


Walter Bond: Target has a way so great leaders great companies built cultures, but most importantly they they create a way and they find the right players that buy into the way. See if you don’t have a way


Walter Bond: All the individuals you hire going to bring their own value system.


Walter Bond: And if you don’t have a way their individual value systems are going to take over. That’s why we have so much dysfunction. That’s why we have so much chaos.


Walter Bond: And the only way you can really build a great organization is being a great leader who understands how to build away how to teach away and then to find the right players that fit your way and that’s what greatness is all about.


David Horsager: Let’s jump to, you know, you’ve been on several boards. You’re now on the Jersey Mike’s board as one example. What’s it take to be create a high trust board.


David Horsager: Or be a high trust board member. I mean, you know, I sit on boards like you do. And we’re, you know that I often say the biggest risk of a board is losing trust and so


David Horsager: You know, what do you see as the common out where you see great board members or become a great board a great board what’s there.


Walter Bond: You know, to me, you, you have a team, you know, and just like a basketball team. You know, and we teach teamwork.


Walter Bond: I remember we had a team in college. You remember him and then Richard coffee Richard coffee could rebound.


Walter Bond: And that was about it. And I remember being younger, I should be low critical LIKE ME. YOU CAN’T SHOOT YOU CAN’T DRIBBLE


Walter Bond: All you can do is rebounding but you know what, as I’m a tour.


Walter Bond: I like to do least the big 10 and rebounding. In fact, he’s like the best six foot six rebounder I’ve ever seen in my life.


Walter Bond: And he made the Timberwolves as an undersized power follow it because he was such a great rebounder. And so it really taught me that if you’re going to have a great board your board needs to be diverse.


Walter Bond: In thought and skill set in the ability and any board I come on. Look, don’t give me your spreadsheet.


Walter Bond: Don’t. Don’t talk to me about the fiduciary responsibility because that’s not my specialty. I want to really impact your human capital.


Walter Bond: And that’s why I’m on Jersey Mike’s board because Peter can crawl the founder, understand that kind of impact. I can have on people.


Walter Bond: And he can find anybody to do to the CFO and the spreadsheet and and all the other responsibilities, but I’m on his board because he wants me to impact. His people.


Walter Bond: And he said many times, Walter when the people business you’re an expert with people and I need your voice.


Walter Bond: My people need to hear your voice, not only internally but externally. THIS MAN. HE WAS ME. I DID 25 keynotes across the country for all of his managers. Think about that.


Walter Bond: I mean, these kids are 1719 2021 years old he invested in the managers why watch this analogy, if someone’s in great shape. All you gotta do is check their apps that midsection.


Walter Bond: Don’t tell me you’re in shape and you gotta flabby stomach, right. So, to me, a great organization that’s going to be in shape. You got to get leadership baked all the way down to that middle manager.


Walter Bond: A lot of companies aren’t willing to invest and spend time developing the middle manager. That’s why McDonald’s is so special. Why they created a hamburger University and the focus was a middle manager, the apps that midsection.


Walter Bond: And I say that right now because back in the day I had a six pack. Now I got a big belly.


David Horsager: Still there.


David Horsager: I gotta find it, buddy.


David Horsager: I ain’t gonna say, you know what, we’re back when you played your 200 pounds. You’ve kind of


David Horsager: What 652 hundred pounds of it doesn’t show on Wikipedia. What you are today.


Walter Bond: Right. It’s none of your business.


David Horsager: But, you know, imagine what you’re doing with leaders.


Walter Bond: at the executive level. I mean, and I’m sure you do this, we gotta make this thing all the way down to that middle manager.


Walter Bond: Because until you get down to that middle manager, you really have not built a culture.


Walter Bond: And we have a client, I’m not gonna say their name is a major automotive organization and they lose middle managers and they don’t know why.


Walter Bond: And I know why because you’re not developing middle managers. Now here’s the truth that all leaders need to understand at a subconscious level. This is what people think.


Walter Bond: If I can reach my potential here I stay if I can’t reach my potential here. I leave it happens in sports, it happens in business. It happens in life.


Walter Bond: It happens in marriage and happens in every organization is embedded in our DNA. Can I reach my potential here. So the channels for me leader is that you have to be able to convince


Walter Bond: The day you hire someone that you can reach your potential here.


Walter Bond: And. Matter of fact, I’m going to make sure you do because that is my job for you to reach your potential here. If you can’t reach your potential here. That’s when we have high turnover.


Walter Bond: Okay, that’s when you have apathy. That’s when you have poor alignment. Why, because they’re not convinced. I can reach my potential here.


Walter Bond: And to me, that’s what McDonald’s and chick fil a and great organizations do. And so one of our biggest messages Day to all of our corporate clients is that smart companies.


Walter Bond: Are training and development organizations at that core because of your training and development organization at your core those middle managers who have have potential men, they’re going to start waking up.


Walter Bond: They will start popping like popcorn. You know, they might walk in, you know, a little disheveled and smelling like weed and


Walter Bond: A little Emma tour. But if you’re training and development organization McDonald’s has hired a brand new Chief Diversity Officer and he started with MCDONALD’S WHEN HE WAS 16 years old off the street.


Walter Bond: Wow, that’s what training and development can


David Horsager: I say this often that you know


David Horsager: I think I was reading this was last year’s data, but the container company Container Store.


David Horsager: That’s the CEO, there’s, you know, and they’re beating everybody in their industry doesn’t sound like a, you know, this hot fund industry. But they’re beating me. I said, Well, how are you doing, he said, Well basically we can take every one person I’m tournament, a three in our industry, we have


David Horsager: Most people spend eight hours of training and development on the frontline employees. We spent 200 200 in the first year said, that’s why we are where we are at the top of the industry and you and I both know


David Horsager: There’s people that love chicken land don’t. But the point is, is their number one, you know, meet next is McDonald’s and Panera at 2.5 million


David Horsager: annual revenue average per store and nothing between them and chick fil a without working on Sundays 4.4 million


David Horsager: Average per store revenue per year. It’s unbelievable difference. And how did they win, even as the CEO says it’s just checking it actually is. It’s not laced in crack like people think it’s just chicken.


David Horsager: And and and the deal is said, we went on learning development, we get the same kids as McDonald’s.


David Horsager: They didn’t come out of the womb, saying, My pleasure, we train them and and that’s where training development can change the culture. So I love that it’s true.


David Horsager: That we’re both in this business, we built that that’s what we built, you know, we want to develop people because we can develop them.


David Horsager: Into the greatest leaders and the highest performance when we develop them based on trust, which is in essence what you’re what you’re doing with teams and everything so


David Horsager: Hey, let’s get personal for a second, you know,


David Horsager: Your leadership starts at home. It starts personally. It starts with our own so I know your your wife you married out of your league. She’s amazing. As we know,


David Horsager: And I did the same. So we’re saying that we can show our wisdom of judgment in our, in our marriages. At least that with me to Lisa and you had to Antoinette, but what are habits, you know, as I’ve known you and you’re working accountability and building good habits.


David Horsager: You know it’s we often say you don’t change organization.


David Horsager: You change a person. And when you change one, then they can change a team and then they can change it come in and pretty soon you can change the country but you


David Horsager: You start by changing one and and and and it starts with us. But what are some habits you built, you know, you


David Horsager: You know the importance of discipline and habits you lived it in the NBA and other places. But what do you do today, whether it’s physically you know in your relationships with your, your family, you got some great kids there. What, what are some habits you that every day. I do this.


Walter Bond: Right, well, you know what I try to be positive, you know,


Walter Bond: Because that’s I remember when I flunked out of my high school I was embarrassed.


Walter Bond: My dad was positive, you know, my mother to said maybe enlightens hasn’t clicked on yet. You’ll be fine.


David Horsager: No, Walter. No, that’s right.


David Horsager: No Walter you positively failed. Yeah, I mean I flunked out in you know my dad would wake me up in the morning.


Walter Bond: Wake up, Moses, you know, Moses from the Bible. I remember when I flunked out. I was like Moses.


Walter Bond: I was like it was just that kind of guy he wouldn’t browbeat you we wouldn’t criticize you. I mean, he was a straight shooter and I don’t get me wrong. He didn’t sugarcoat anything but


Walter Bond: After his focus mindset is peace, he would go back to being positive. So that’s why I try and provide for my kids.


Walter Bond: And I believe in ownership, you know, you know I want people to own their lives, you know, and, and with with my wife for me. She’s my business partner.


Walter Bond: And she owns her responsibility, you know, she she negotiates the contract right she manages the website. She does the market, she deals with all of our vendors


Walter Bond: My wife is my business partner. And I’m not saying that in name only. She legitimately is my business partner and she has her responsibilities.


Walter Bond: I have mine and I try and tell her everyday. She’s doing a great job, you know, and she last Sunday I say you did a great job. You know, we just hired our daughter and I needed to get her new word


Walter Bond: Internet, you do a great job. I’m gonna get our daughter her work her own word, but she does all of our video technology or editing.


Walter Bond: She’s been with us for a year and I want everybody to own this stuff, you know, like if I’m on a keynote platform that’s me. That’s my if I’m writing a book that’s me. That’s mine. But I need you to own your slack because think about it they you know you and I in college rented apartments.


Walter Bond: The only thing we cared about was that security deposit


Walter Bond: We never upgraded the property. We never painted it, we never thought about playing painting it, we never thought about upgrading the property. Why, because we rented it but the moment we bought a house.


Walter Bond: The whole mentality shift that we’re going to paint. We’re going to cut the grass who parked on my yard.


Walter Bond: Oh, we get very territorial why because we own it. So when I deal with my clients I asked them when you build a culture, are you hurting renters owners.


Walter Bond: Most companies they hire renters. I’m just reading this job. And so when I give it back to you in two years or three years or 10 years it’s going to be exactly the same.


Walter Bond: It might even be a little worse. But I found that you own marketing.


Walter Bond: If I let you own social media. If I met you own training and development or curriculum. If I let you own it is yours, and you’re going to take care of it much better than I will.


Walter Bond: And so to me, ownership is how you build culture ownership is how you build family, and as my kids with torn progress.


Walter Bond: We got three kids and three jobs and then my little own go smack you know it’s not my job to tell you what to do and and try and control your every move.


Walter Bond: You make your own decisions and understand that some consequences to it.


Walter Bond: Good luck. If you want to help me if you want me to help you rationalize some stuff and you want me to be a sounding board. Cool. But I want you to own your smack


Walter Bond: My wife does a great job owning her responsibilities. My daughter kills owning her responsibility and it’s my job to own my responsibility and I don’t care how big the company is we need to have own


Walter Bond: And stop hiring people to rent, because that’s the culture you build and then you wonder why people keep leaving. Then you wonder why you have high turnover man stop hurting renters and start recruiting owners that’s going to own their response to you.


David Horsager: How do you just give us one quick tip. How do you, how do you hire owners instead of renters.


Walter Bond: Um, well, a lot of is done in the hiring process. But when you onboarding, you know, basically you give them responsibility.


Walter Bond: And you set an expectation. But you give them the room to be themselves, you know, in our teamwork methodology we we coined the phrase, we call them work expressions.


Walter Bond: And people need to go to work and express themselves based on who they are naturally and in sports, you can play someone out of position and evaluate


Walter Bond: Tom Brady’s a great quarterback. Right. You can’t play him in any other position in the NFL, he’ll get embarrassed. Right. But as a quarterback. He’s the best of all time.


Walter Bond: I think the same thing is true inside of a company as a coach, it is my job to evaluate my talent.


Walter Bond: And then put them in a position of success. And I tell you a quick story. Our youngest daughter Cory was a track star in Minnesota and all the upper Midwest.


Walter Bond: My daughter did not lose a 100 200 to 400 meter dash in any state in the Midwest, we move to Florida. So I’m thinking, hey, my girls a star in Minnesota.


Walter Bond: We in Florida. I’m a fan of Trump talk track coach in Florida, and she want to be a sprinter. We can get outside when you’re around, I found the top track coach.


Walter Bond: And for two weeks. I will practice. I will watch it and even say much, and eventually comes up to me says, Man, I like your daughter, she’s strong, but we have to find her, and then


Walter Bond: I’m like, hello. She’s a spirit or 100 200 400. We just moved here from Minnesota. Two weeks ago, she has not lost her race in Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa. What are you talking about, she’s a sprinter. He got no she can’t run with my girls.


Walter Bond: We want to find her and event. I’m upset I’m frustrated that I make a mistake, then he comes to me day


Walter Bond: He goes, Okay, I get it. She’s really a heptathlete but she’s too young. So I want to start her and triple john I’m like dude.


Walter Bond: What are you doing, we’ve been here for two weeks it long story short,


Walter Bond: I did my research, and he was a top coach in South Florida and got out the way and I let my coach that I chose do his job.


Walter Bond: My daughter’s in the in the in the in the sand pit in triple jump is a little bit of an awkward event.


Walter Bond: Man She looks like she’s about to tear her leg or ACL breaker ankle. She’s getting in the car frustrated and I’m like, you know, we got to trust the coach, man. Four months later they my daughter was an All American triple jumper.


Walter Bond: Four months later. Wow. And it taught me just all one that man knows how to coach to stay in your lane that


Walter Bond: Right, I didn’t know track. I know sports but I didn’t know track.


Walter Bond: But a coach’s job is to identify talent and then position that talent, so they they can reach their potential. Right. So the five work expressions that we teach our innovators.


Walter Bond: Initiator initiators instigators Improvers and implemented and in business. We only celebrate innovators, which is crazy to me that’s like watching the basketball game and we only celebrate the point guards. No other position matters, the pointer.


Walter Bond: In business, you mean opposition. You need innovators, right. You need initiators like Mark Zuckerberg. He’s an initiator.


Walter Bond: That was not his idea. He stolen right but he initiated, he brought it to life instigators okay


Walter Bond: I’ll stay bomber owner. The LA Clippers he’s an instigator if you watch this video for 30 seconds you were realized, he’s an instigator


Walter Bond: And I hate to say it is controversial. Our President Donald Trump is an instigator where he gets his who he is.


Walter Bond: And you mean instigators but sometimes instigators need to get coached because sometimes instigators or misunderstood and sometimes they spiral out of control. But the bottom line is an instigator should act as if like the immune system.


Walter Bond: You know, pick about our immune system if anything is not right. It attacks it


Walter Bond: And that’s the role of an instigator


Walter Bond: Not just to instigate for the sake of it, but really seeing what’s not right and attacking was not right, but we know also the immune system can overreact.


Walter Bond: And sometimes the immune system can get out of whack. So an instigator on a team is like Dennis Rodman


Walter Bond: You know, Draymond Green, you know, the Detroit Pistons had the bad boys and hockey, we call them the bruiser


Walter Bond: Right, you got to have an instigator and we teach this so well. We’ve had instigators that we’ve assessed call us and say, Walter. I got fired today and do. You’re right. You won’t need I overdid it like I want to win, but I just I just did it I over instigated


Walter Bond: Right, so we got to teach instigators


Walter Bond: How to instigate and that’s what coaches do so you got innovators, the initiators instigators and then you have improvers when I think about an improver I think Oprah Winfrey


Walter Bond: You know, I think, I think Nelson Mandela, I think Martin Luther King was an improver right he didn’t innovate anything


Walter Bond: But he improved the world he improves society and right inside of every company there improvers there’s instigators right there’s initiators


Walter Bond: And there’s implemented, when I think about implemented. That’s the Lee Iacocca jack Welch just workers just grinders. And so nothing about a team.


Walter Bond: You need to have a team that’s balanced with innovators initiators instigators improves the implements. I’m a sports guy. You can’t have five centers and think you’re going to win. You can have five point guards and think you’re going to win.


Walter Bond: You got to have a team that’s balanced with everyone playing their position and the coast directing traffic.


Walter Bond: And getting all these amazing town of the pieces working together like Richard coffee, who could only rebound.


Walter Bond: But my God my coke knew how to use that I was all around. I could do everything so he didn’t need to duplicate that Richard you rebirth and if we get either out rebound it, that’s your fault. Walter your versatile. So you give us what we’re lacking.


Walter Bond: In any situation. You’re so versatile. You become the wild card and una right Willie Burton, you can score. Do you just score your score your score and that’s how our great coach built a team.


Walter Bond: So if your team is that balance. You don’t have resources and we do case studies with BlackBerry. What happened to BlackBerry.


Walter Bond: Everyone had a blackberry phone now you can’t find one why something was flawed with their team. And so when we get inside of organizations and work with leaders to me. It’s not about leadership as much as it is, it is about teamwork because leader. Your job is to build a team.


Walter Bond: And so we give our leaders, a blueprint on how to build a high performing team and become an ultimate coach.


Walter Bond: Who understands their personnel, they understand the innovator, they understand the initiated instigated the implemented and that’s what great coaches doing football right they understand why receivers. Want to get touches


Walter Bond: They understand eroded back wants to get touches. They understand the quarterback wants to throw the ball is somehow they have an orchestra. They’re the maestro of the orchestra and get all this talent and all these pieces working together in harmony.


David Horsager: I love it. Well, you can find out more, and we’ll put that will put that in the show notes. But my goodness, those five. I love it. And we’ve talked about that. I still remember being in my boardroom at my last offices, when you were just


David Horsager: Heading back to Florida and talking through those five and the assessments and everything you’re building with creating high performing team so


Walter Bond: Let me say that David was saying is


Walter Bond: You inspire me. I mean, we don’t have to go deep on that but you inspired me. We had a we had a conversation he challenged me


Walter Bond: And you’re absolutely right. And since that conversation. You know, I had to work on me and really become more of just a performer.


Walter Bond: Right and really understand like, man, like I can really impact companies like I can really help organizations. He hit their goals. And so since we had our come to Jesus meeting.


Walter Bond: You know, my wife and I got in the lab and start started building content right and started developing a teamwork methodology that can can come and really help organizations.


Walter Bond: And I want to thank you for that and


Walter Bond: You know, you, you, you were the perfect


Walter Bond: Peer to really kind of jerk my chain a little bit and kind of say hey man, you know, you’re great keynote speaker. But, you know, we need more out of you.


Walter Bond: You know, let’s become a thought leader and a true consultant that can help organizations transform


Walter Bond: And we heard you loud and clear.


David Horsager: Well, I’m proud of what you’ve done. And maybe we, you know, we’re friends. So we can be direct with each other and that’s what I get paid to tell the truth, but I certainly wouldn’t want to tell two friends and


David Horsager: You’ve done some just amazing work in life and I’m so grateful grateful that we’re friends. So


David Horsager: Hey, we’re gonna go to a lightning round. Keep them real short here. Here we go. We got to wrap it up. I want to hear what you think about this one thing that motivates you.

450
01:01:30.300 –> 01:01:31.200
Walter Bond: Getting better


Walter Bond: You know force you have an off season. I love to get better.


David Horsager: Love it. What’s a book or favorite resource these days.


Walter Bond: Swim. Same with


David Horsager: You


Walter Bond: Um,


Walter Bond: You know, actually the first book that comes to my mind is traction


Walter Bond: Traction is a great book.


Walter Bond: Gina Whitman.


Walter Bond: Really helped me because I didn’t have a corporate background to really retraction and get some intel on how to really be a business leader has really helped our company as well. So traction


David Horsager: Yep, on the whole entrepreneurial operating system and


David Horsager: All that rocket fuels the next book if you’re if you’re into that kind of thing. It’s fantastic. What about any quick one. I know you got many but effectively or productivity tip.


Walter Bond: Look out first thing the morning


Walter Bond: Workout. Firstly,


David Horsager: Firstly, what’s your, what’s your, what’s your workout.


Walter Bond: Right now we’re walking right now I’m walking


Walter Bond: Into about two and a half miles. I’m gonna get up to about five miles and I come back and just do some push ups.


Walter Bond: Because you know when you’re when you’re in shape, physically, your mind is sharp as well and coach Haskins had a saying fatigue will make a coward out of us have us all.


Walter Bond: And as you get tired. That’s when you make mistakes. You’ll make turnovers. And so being in shape, physically, you know, releases all kind of endorphins that really helps our mental capacity.


Walter Bond: And so working as a great stress release. I’m thinking I’m being creative. I’m getting outside. So the first thing I do in the morning is go for really hard brisk walk and I’m eventually


Walter Bond: Progress into running


Walter Bond: Good Hope, but the studies have shown that just


Walter Bond: Just walking. Yeah. Is, is the most powerful exercise.


David Horsager: You know when I lost 50


David Horsager: Pounds and five and a half months in 2011 and basically have kept you know most of that off for a decade, almost


David Horsager: One of the things I got back to and you know I was as much as that wasn’t a basketball players all state and football and I love you know I love sports and stuff and


David Horsager: I remember this doctor saying, David, you can’t. You cannot run a cheeseburger and and the deal was, you know, you can’t eat that 2000 calorie deal. You can’t go you know you walk, you know,


David Horsager: Just exercise that off. So you got to think of what your input. You want to run a Ferrari or a Junker you got to put different fuel in the Ferrari.


David Horsager: But the other thing was, he said, you know, one of the best exercises is walking, actually, people think it’s swimming, swimming is great.


David Horsager: But walking, especially walking with wheat. Wait, so I still this morning. I got up and walked on the treadmill with these few pound weights and I walk and it just is a


David Horsager: It’s not high impact. I do elliptical and some other things, but it’s something I still have in my rhythm of working out this walking piece and there’s there’s some incredible health benefits just to walking


David Horsager: Briskly, as you said, so I love that idea. I don’t hear everybody say that and I had learned it from an executive coach, years ago, before I kind of decided that I needed to change.


David Horsager: My


David Horsager: What do you call it just make up. I guess I’ll say right so


David Horsager: Good. What, what’s one left one thing left on the bucket list for Walter bond.


Walter Bond: Ah, you know, for, for my wife and I both. I mean we we want to build a business that lives on beyond us.


Walter Bond: You know, in the model is Dale Carnegie, I mean this guy died in 1954 and he’s still relevant today because he created trainings that are helping people transform. And so for me.


Walter Bond: You know, being a kid and flunked out of high school, the ultimate bucket list for me will be able to leave a business and live on lives on beyond us.


Grant.


Walter Bond: You know that that’s the first thing that comes to my mind.


Walter Bond: Yeah. Also want to travel the world and and my wife. I love to travel. We love nice home you know we love nice houses, you know, so we Snowbird it for years. We just put out three kids to college.


Walter Bond: And so, you know, we like traveling and seeing amazing stuff and and we’re doing a cruise this summer on a Ritz Carlton. They got a new yacht. And so just doing cool stuff like that. But the biggest one is leaving a company that will live on beyond us.


David Horsager: Great.


David Horsager: Well, we’re working people. I got one last question for you, before I get to that. Where can people find out about you. Where’s the


David Horsager: Number one place to go.


Walter Bond: Walter bond.com you know everything kind of builds. From there, we have a bunch of websites and a bunch of different


Walter Bond: Divisions of our company. But Walter bond calm is is the best place and I want to encourage everyone to watch our video sharp mindset.


Walter Bond: We’ve had over 3.5 million views on YouTube, the Cleveland Browns football team.


Walter Bond: One of the coaches saw it on on YouTube and he had me in front of their team like 10 days later shark mindset. And that’s what we kind of break down what’s in the book swim with sharks run the ocean for reason and the shark mindset is a movement now that a lot of people enjoy


David Horsager: Well, that’s something you can be proud of. With how Cleveland’s playing this year compared to the last 17 years. So, you know, I often. In fact, I got one once introduced this way, where it’s like, yes, he spoken to Congress. Twice he must not be very good.


David Horsager: So at least you can say you you put that in front of


David Horsager: Cleveland and look at the turnaround they’ve had. So I


David Horsager: Love that.


David Horsager: Hey we we end the show with one simple question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Walter Bond: Wow alive.


You Peck.


Walter Bond: You know Jesus Christ.


Walter Bond: You know Jesus Christ, I trust that dude.


Walter Bond: That is


Walter Bond: It since I’ve been calling them. That name is things have been working out so that that would be as as a mortal


Walter Bond: Again, Peter came from, you know, Jersey Mike’s subs. My God, like through the coronavirus I’ve seen him lead and they’re up like 20% they just opened 210 stores in a pandemic.


Walter Bond: So to me, his franchisees trust him. I made his franchisees will run through a wall for him. They’re doing renovations remodels and he’s paying for it.


Walter Bond: And we’re talking over 2000 locations that’s unheard of. Right. And so, you know, we talked about family environment and corporate america but very few people


Walter Bond: Really know how to build it and think mom and dad build trust, you know, Mom. Mom and Dad build trust over time. And I think that’s what great leaders do they build trust over time.


Walter Bond: And through your actions, it should become obvious that you love me and Peter can crow in the context of corporate america


Walter Bond: He led America know because through a pandemic. He was on TV, giving stuff away, you know, think about it through a pandemic. They gave $2 million to feeding America and they have a dad giving


Walter Bond: In April, where every store in America Jersey Mike’s they give the whole day proceeds to a charity.


Walter Bond: Of their choice. You know, so not only is he generous. He’s basically convinced his franchisees to become generous as well and Jersey Mike’s is coming on strong and a lot of it has to do with culture and Peter camp rose leadership.


David Horsager: Its culture its culture wins. Yes.


David Horsager: Well, everybody. We’ve heard a lot today and I a few things that come to mind for me. You must become a servant of your team, you can’t be a great leader and be selfish. At the same time, they just don’t go together.


David Horsager: Are you going to coach. Are you going to be a fruit inspector, you gotta let them, own it. If your employees.


David Horsager: You gotta let your employees know they can reach their potential here. There’s a whole lot more unless I love this. And this is so true unless you get down to the middle managers. You have not changed the culture.


David Horsager: All this and more. I hope you enjoyed the show. It’s been the trusted leader show what a gift. IT’S BEEN TO HAVE YOU ON Walter bond. Until next time, we’ll look forward to seeing you all stay trusted

Ep. 4: Manley Feinberg II on The Vertical Lessons for Impactful Leadership

In this episode, David sits down with Manley Feinberg II, award winning international keynote speaker, business leader, and author, to discuss the vertical lessons we all need for leading with more impact.

Manley’s Bio:
Manley is the founder of VerticalLessons.com. He is an award-winning international keynote speaker, business leader and author whose work has been featured on NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, and in The New York Daily News, and Entrepreneur. His unique perspective from more than twenty years of business leadership and adventure experience to over 500 destinations worldwide will equip, energize, and inspire you to step up and Reach Your Next Summit. Manley’s 11 years of leadership influence contributed to a workplace culture that landed Build-A-Bear Workshop on the FORTUNE 100 Best Companies to Work For® List four years in a row; while growing the business from 40 stores to over 400 worldwide, from 55 million to over 474 million in revenue. On a personal note, Manley likes to sleep on the side of mountains. Even more shocking is that his wife has been putting up with that for 27 years, and he has two teens that still kiss him on the cheek in front of their friends.

Manley’s Links:
Website: https://verticallessons.com/
Book: https://amzn.to/3tQgzBL
Companion Journal: https://amzn.to/2N6qimT
Guidebook: https://amzn.to/3qixU3T
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VerticalLessons
Twitter: https://twitter.com/manleyf
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manleyf/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/manleyf

Key Quotes:
1. “You die without right relationships.”
2. “Awareness is the first step to your next summit.”
3. “Where do I have too much slack out in my life?”
4. “Stop chasing behaviors.”
5. “When the pen hits the paper, fear separates from fact.”
6. “Meditation is your relationship with your thoughts.”
7. “The current climb. What’s your most important initiative?”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Streaks App: https://streaksapp.com/
Suja Juice: https://www.sujajuice.com/
“The Untethered Soul” by Michael A. Singer: https://amzn.to/3rUAv4m

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I’m thrilled to be here with a special guest.


David Horsager: He’s climbed peaks in 500 different locations around the world. He’s been a senior executive at Build a Bear when it went from 40 store locations to over 400 locations.


David Horsager: More than that, he’s an amazing family man leader, what we say in the businesses and I’ve seen him speak and it’s amazing onstage and offstage. So thanks so much for being here Manley Feinberg, the second


Manley Feinberg: Well, thank you, how are you


Manley Feinberg: I’m great. With me with your day.


David Horsager: It’s a treat to have you here. And it’s a treat to have someone that’s not just a leader, I respect but a friend. So hey, give us


David Horsager: You know, for people that don’t know you. And you know I know your book vertical lessons and I know you from seeing you on stage and sharing some stages but also just like let’s say three things that everybody should know about manly.


Manley Feinberg: Good question. So, my life is it’s the three or 12 years, my life has kind of been three track three parallel tracks and for 25 or so years.


Manley Feinberg: And I’m one of those tracks. You mentioned that this the climbing and I’ve been


Manley Feinberg: In college, and climbing have been really compelled to try to go to the coolest places I could go and experience cultures and challenge myself and climb places.


Manley Feinberg: Wherever the coolest place I could get to some of that some of us are outside of us. And then in parallel world. I was. I’ve always been in my heart and in my head really love business and especially small to mid sized business and worked with a lot of big companies to you, but


Manley Feinberg: You had a parallel life. Have you tried to make business happen and figure out how to grow a business and serve people and focus on that. So part of that.


Manley Feinberg: Is build a bear workshop was a fun laboratory. What’s interesting about that time my life.


Manley Feinberg: As as the more climbing travel and I did in the more business growth. I try to keep up with


Manley Feinberg: I would I would find that was really challenged coming back into the world of business and creating teams and doing things that I would did well in the mountains and


Manley Feinberg: How can I do that, how can you go halfway around the world meet someone who doesn’t speak English as an example.


Manley Feinberg: And create a team on the fly and then accomplish something you didn’t think was possible. And then yet and you know the business world, I would struggle, even with great HR teams and stuff.


Manley Feinberg: Assessments and interviewing and, you know, bringing in the best people. We can sometimes, it didn’t click right you think you’ve got the right team member. And so I really try to reverse engineer what worked well. So


Manley Feinberg: That is going to give me a unique perspective on leadership. I feel like and the overlap of what’s worked in those two worlds and then simultaneously as well. The third track of that that


Manley Feinberg: I really want people know about me is that my family, my immediate family, especially in my extended family. I’m very, very close to my two kids and my wife.


Manley Feinberg: And we, we have a really tight family unit. Our kids are 20 and 18 years old now at Colorado State University.


Manley Feinberg: And so that you’re balancing that mutual friend of ours, one time pointed out, he said, I think this is the biggest accomplishment.


Manley Feinberg: Mark share Brock and so your point is I think the biggest comps, your life is that your mother, your mother, your children is still within your wife’s Mary do right and


Manley Feinberg: So like that’s not easy to do you need to build a speaking business and the travel involved. And so, yeah, that’s so that that in the kids are in my introduction. When I go on stage, it says a


Manley Feinberg: Lot mainly like to sleep on the side of mountains and what’s crazier than that is his wife has been encouraging that for


Manley Feinberg: 27 years and his kids to his two teenagers still kiss on the cheek in front of friends, which is a true and just believe that. But yeah, so that’s the third piece I’m really proud of, as well. So


David Horsager: Well, speaking of stress in the midst of the pandemic, you and your family moved to kind of your dream area in the world where you’ve been wanting to move or thinking about moving for a long time. So, out to the


David Horsager: Colorado Rocky Mountains. What was, what was the biggest learning from moving in this time.


Manley Feinberg: Ah, ah,


Manley Feinberg: I think


Manley Feinberg: I didn’t


David Horsager: Do any of these


Manley Feinberg: You know, we’re not faking this


Manley Feinberg: That’s a good question. I believe, ultimately, it’s about


Manley Feinberg: This all starts with having a vision of something you really want. Right. And if that’s the first vertical lesson. The book is, is it worth it decide if it’s worth it.


Manley Feinberg: And I’ve really had. I mean, that’s what if this hadn’t been something we started in 2019 by the way that the actual moving and parts, components of it.


Manley Feinberg: If I hadn’t really really really deeply desired and admin at dream for 20 some 25 years to live in the mountains full time. I don’t think I ever would have been able to push through so


Manley Feinberg: Having something I really, really knew that would benefit us and we all believed in and in the kids to for us. We


Manley Feinberg: We didn’t want to just have our kids and shut them off and never see him again. I know a lot of people. That’s where they’re at. When they get to that point.


Manley Feinberg: But we have not found ourselves there. Matter of fact, I’m, I’m, you know, it’s hard for them. I’m into nesting now. So it’s really hard on me, at least in our life so


Manley Feinberg: So, believing in knowing what we were after right that that and believing that we could do it, and then just


Manley Feinberg: reeling back into like day to day what I have to do. What’s your day to day focus. What’s the current climate, we call it, you know, what’s the most important momentum.


Manley Feinberg: Initiative and keeping focused on that from your operational standpoint. So yeah, knowing that we wanted it what we wanted, and just focus in in zoom back out on a very tactical I just day to day


David Horsager: Yeah I know, it was challenging. We won’t get into that even more, but you’re glad you’re there and


David Horsager: That’s that’s it’s worked out.


David Horsager: Awesome. So back for a second because you’re talking about these 500 peaks and I want to get into business stuff too, but


David Horsager: But, you know, let’s go to somewhere like let’s say you show up in Nepal, like you have and you gotta build a team and they don’t speak English. These Sherpas or wherever. All you’re working with.


David Horsager: Just a glimpse on how do you build a high trust team or a team, you gotta trust them with your life are going up the mountain, whatever, how do you, how do you


David Horsager: build trust in that. And I know other continents, too. But that’s an interesting one. How do you, how do you build trust and build this team.


Manley Feinberg: So it’s really, it’s it is it. I knew it we would have a lot of synergy here in our conversations, right, because it’s pretty obvious when you see some I hang on that side of 2000 foot wall the rope and somebody has their hand.


Manley Feinberg: You know the wrote the ropes in the person’s hands literally holding your life in their hands. So the trust is. That’s really what it’s all about the thing


Manley Feinberg: What am I thinking through this. A lot of the ones that are there’s an assessment early obstacles, you have to overcome, I believe, and then you can go deeper, but on, you know, fundamentally, especially the climbing world.


Manley Feinberg: We need to know that and believe that person’s competent and enter that we can


Manley Feinberg: Trust that they they got the core skills right just from a basic functional level. Can you stop the fall. Do you know how to stop a fall, do not have built an anchor system.


Manley Feinberg: On the wall that will protect us and guarantee that we’re not going to, you know, fall off the wall.


Manley Feinberg: Or they will stay attached. If we do slip so competence is a big piece of it and then you’re getting a lot of times when I met people on an exhibition, you don’t have the time to really get to know them at the personal level.


Manley Feinberg: But we usually go out in a more limited make a limited commitment on a smaller objective to try to build trust and see how


Manley Feinberg: The person climbs and what their techniques are confirm our confidence and their competence.


Manley Feinberg: being super transparent is a really key piece to right. So there’s if their health issues or their competency issues or weaknesses are strings.


Manley Feinberg: The team is, you know, you’ve got to be, you can’t. It’s not a place you can be s at all right so you need to


Manley Feinberg: You know people that you have to sometimes be very, very personal rights on it like personal health issues or like you’re going to the bat you’re going to the bathroom hanging on the side of the wall right shoulder to shoulder with people is pretty


Manley Feinberg: Pretty intense and that so it’s worth an extreme trust test in that way. So,


Manley Feinberg: Those are a few things I don’t. That’s where you were.


David Horsager: You know what you i think it’s it’s interesting you know you you said this quoted it was in your book you die without right relationships.


David Horsager: And then that’s whether it’s on the mountain or I think in person. And I just thought, coming back to that I make, and see how that would be. You could die without the relationship


David Horsager: But there’s companies and marriages dying all the time without the right relationships in a way to


David Horsager: Yeah, but how do you, how do you build those relationships because, in your case, especially on the let’s take an international climb. You got to build some of those relationships pretty fast and


David Horsager: You know, it’s, it’s funny at I don’t know the eight pillars of trust, one of the pillars is


Manley Feinberg: Competency right yeah you’ve


David Horsager: Got to be competent, but I also have to have character and active connection and you can’t have


David Horsager: The deepest connection with everybody work with or this kind of thing. But how do you, how do you even build that you know before you’re


David Horsager: Hanging on the side of the mountain with with a with a you know a little rope or or whatever, you know, it’s like, how do you, how do you build that. So, you know,


Manley Feinberg: I think the key is it relates to what you said about you mentioned as well that you know that relationships and business and at homes right now or you’re really struggling and there’s


Manley Feinberg: I think that one of the things that what happens is in compared to contrast in this mix. I think climbing is easier mountain climbing is easier than day to day relationships and business and personal life.


Manley Feinberg: And because of this in the climbing environment. The risk is completely amplified and it’s very clear, very acutely aware of that, you know,


Manley Feinberg: It’s like when you’re driving the icy road or you’re like, Okay, I know this conditions are unsafe right now I have to be more careful and you’re more focused hopefully


Manley Feinberg: In Touch your phone lesson. And so in the climbing the world. It also it demands demands a level presence and focus and awareness that is not necessarily demanded upon us today today.


Manley Feinberg: In that we can fall into sleep or just be especially right now we’re at so much going on in the pandemic and even a normal life whether we’re


Manley Feinberg: Caught up in an epic crisis like we are, or life’s going great. We’re so busy. And one of the things I say a lot of awareness is the first step to your next summit.


Manley Feinberg: So I think the biggest part for me is as it’s in what I encourage people to do is to become more aware and have you got to build in reflection time


Manley Feinberg: And create an environment, whether it’s a walk or spiritual place or an outdoor place or your living room out, you know, whatever that spot is in your life where


Manley Feinberg: You can create some space to think and listen and hear in in and think through those relationships as an example and have a sense of how they are right.


Manley Feinberg: That’s a, that’s a really key part. There are some tactical pieces we could talk about to within that applied directly to life in business.


Manley Feinberg: And evaluating the relationship, but it’s more. I mean, this is this is a piece that it’s it’s tough, because it’s kind of a nebulous thing too, but but I think it’s maybe the most important piece. It’s just the driving awareness.


David Horsager: What is something here where, like you said, like we get to go to tactical what is something


David Horsager: That will help me tactically build relationship quicker. You know, if I’m putting my whether I’m working on a team in on a big project that has to


Manley Feinberg: Be


David Horsager: Is due tomorrow for a


David Horsager: Client or you know something different. What is you get a specific


Manley Feinberg: Yeah. Yeah. So there’s a one thing. And so we call this, there’s one core piece of that relationship on the climb is called the bull. A BL a lie right in the ballet is the mechanism by which the road and the climbers are protected.


Manley Feinberg: That is so when you when you fall, we expect that you’re going to fall. That’s another thing to cash out to people they go you fall like yeah we we expect to fall.


Manley Feinberg: Not to fail the diary to fail, right. So in our, in our world is like, I expect to fall. So I build systems in place that will allow for me, give me capacity to fall and be protected and safe.


Manley Feinberg: But that all depends on the person, literally, holding your wife in their hands with the rope.


Manley Feinberg: So they’re really there for things you have to do well to be a great delay to build those great relationships. And the first one is just to really encourage and to be present, which is a battle in itself right to be President.


David Horsager: Stop you right here. My uncle I, excuse me, my cousin is climbing a wall at a camp that he’s the director of


David Horsager: And he’s done all the safety training and everything. And the person on belay just looked away for a second.


David Horsager: He only 10 feet and he broke his back.


David Horsager: Oh, that is the, you know, didn’t die. Thankfully wasn’t in a mountain, but that moment of just not being present for just a moment.


David Horsager: It only takes that right when they weren’t


Manley Feinberg: They were


David Horsager: They were there to belay


Manley Feinberg: And broken back


Manley Feinberg: Anyway, keep


Manley Feinberg: Yes.


David Horsager: That’s a good that’s a reminder that being present.


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, right. And that’s it. So being present and encouraging as part of that too. Right, letting people know you believe in them. And that’s one thing I’ve been


Manley Feinberg: encouraging people to do during this whole thing is just pick a person every day and let them know, hey, man, I know you’ve got this. I believe in you.


Manley Feinberg: I don’t know exactly how we’re going through this bag. I know you’re part of this part of me making it through this so that for the next piece is


Manley Feinberg: Making sure that you don’t have too much slack out so literally when you, when the person is climbing the person feature rope. Right. And you can feed out too much rope. If you’re not paying attention and have a big loop of slack running down


Manley Feinberg: And then when the person falls. If there’s too much roadmap a fall too far right.


Manley Feinberg: So this is the equivalent of this in the world of life in business is, you know, putting off conversations that are uncomfortable as an example. So one of the


Manley Feinberg: lenses through which ask people to look at and attach away as far as relationships is what, where do I have too much slack out in my life.


Manley Feinberg: Relationship wise, right. So whether it’s a brother friend colleague direct report. So when you work with


Manley Feinberg: Who you haven’t connected with on a regular basis. Are you you’re overdue. Right. You just letting that relationship withering a bit


Manley Feinberg: Opposite of that is, it’s just as difficult can be as a just as a problematic is is making sure that the reps. Not too tight.


Manley Feinberg: Because the also if you’re when you’re when you’re on belay for someone, if you do if you don’t feed enough rope and you literally can hold them back. So the person can’t move.


Manley Feinberg: Right, so we call this micromanaging and business right and that is a very powerful and I worked with leaders to have them sit back for a second and just listen to those two questions. The


Manley Feinberg: answers come to you. Who do I have on too much slack out right now. And then we’re might not be holding the rope too tight for people


Manley Feinberg: And usually I mean, almost every single time. Some, some pops up in both personal, professional in both those areas.


Manley Feinberg: The fourth piece is the law is really blocking off the rope when the person does actually fall


Manley Feinberg: So that they are false stops as quickly as possible. And so that’s that also requires presence and being aware and connected so that, you know, hey, the person slipped or they’re slipping.


Manley Feinberg: Or they’re in a very precarious situation and I need a lot the robe off and and you know have a conversation with them at least and support them in a way that enables them to get get going again and get back on the feet.


David Horsager: That’s that’s tremendous. You know, one of the things that I wrote on this once. But going back to number three I say one of the keys to leadership is being able to have tough conversations


David Horsager: And we also talked about this were in crisis is your greatest opportunity to build trust. I mean, in those tough conversations. That’s when you have that best opportunity to build it the fastest when you how you handle that. Right. How you handle the tough.


David Horsager: Problems, it’s easy to see people do well when it’s all easy but boy, how you respond in a crisis and I bet, I bet if you, you know you’re in a crisis on the mountain and something terrible happens and you see someone respond right you’ll trust them more next time to go up that that


David Horsager: That that’s fantastic. So lets you know how to get inspired. I know I see behind you. For those of you just listening.


David Horsager: You’ve got two pictures of El Capitan behind you. I mean, tell us what’s the specialist because I see you’re on a sheer cliff there on the side of alone doesn’t even look like ever wrote. But I think you do.


David Horsager: That, well, both of them.


David Horsager: But that’s, that’s a special place to you. Tell me about it.


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, you’re sitting back by the way for everybody listening or watching a Yosemite. If you’ve not been to Yosemite National Park. You have you been, David.


David Horsager: I you know it’s interesting about that I have not


David Horsager: You know, but not all 50 states and six continents out of seven, not Antarctica. We were going for Christmas break this year or a trip.


David Horsager: Coming up, we were going to go kind of get an RV and go all out west done a lot of the national Yellowstone and all those places.


David Horsager: And just, is that going to be that great over winter with now it’s pan, then you know all these things. And so we’re talking about it, talking about going there and we haven’t yet so it’s on my radar.


Manley Feinberg: Trust me. Yeah. So after after going over 500 destinations around the world. That’s my number one favorite place in the world.


Manley Feinberg: And you don’t. You do not have to be a climber to appreciate it and the vast majority of visitors are not commerce to go there. It’s absolutely worth it. So for me, it’s, it’s nothing inspires me more than being in the outdoors.


Manley Feinberg: And that’s the thing, you know, if you get to a cool exotic place that’s great, but I’ve, you know, I’ve had encourage people just to get out in their backyard or, you know, little local park or anything.


Manley Feinberg: They need to push yourself to to get out more in the outdoors. And I think we’re more connected to the source and


Manley Feinberg: And and it’s just, that’s for me very inspiring. And then remember the people and this is the challenge. I mean, we have, you know, some


Manley Feinberg: Really really act up here, right, it’s really been challenging


Manley Feinberg: For me, it’s been really important. Try to remember, especially since I’m not physically with the people that serve, then that’s where I get that a lot of inspiration that’s been really challenging. So I have tried to connect with people virtually is like everyone as much as possible.


David Horsager: What’s worked


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, just so as far as virtual programs and retreats and keynotes. And so I’ve been doing like the zoom kind of thing, like a lot of people that I think when


Manley Feinberg: If you can just a little tactical tip for people. Right. We’re looking at the camera and this is still see it on these, you know, I’m working with a high level really high level sales team recently.


Manley Feinberg: And just your press and they’re trying to meet with people on zoom to make sales happen.


Manley Feinberg: Your presence on zoom. It’s not that it’s not rocket science. It’s not that hard. But being present look in the camera makes a huge difference.


Manley Feinberg: And having decent lighting. It doesn’t take anything really expensive or fancy, but that’s helpful wouldn’t be in it on on the


Manley Feinberg: On the emotional you know leadership influenced side I think you’re being authentic and let people know


Manley Feinberg: That that you believe in them that you don’t necessarily have it all figured out and let nothing like that.


Manley Feinberg: I’m struggling to and in the caring. Right. I know you and I are both very aligned on that. And I was thinking about this a lot today that


Manley Feinberg: You know the tough guy leadership can work in certain scenarios but I even know like really really exceptional of military leaders as an example that


Manley Feinberg: I think that’s a myth. By the way, that in the military, since it’s authoritarian that you don’t have that people have to care.


Manley Feinberg: And people don’t need to know you care about them and every multi charity leader that I know that’s been successful said now that’s, you know, we are we are started. Oh, yeah.


Manley Feinberg: But they know how much we care about their family and the people in their lives and and you know he’s like the authority only goes you know


David Horsager: So far, and I can totally


Yeah.


David Horsager: Well, I gotta, I gotta call out one more thing from what you said, you know, we had. We’ve got four kids. And how many kids, you have


Manley Feinberg: To. Yeah. Boy, girl.


Manley Feinberg: Manly version. You’ve done a lot of


David Horsager: Climbing with


Manley Feinberg: Those pictures.


David Horsager: But you said something about getting outside


Manley Feinberg: And and and


David Horsager: Certainly some people are more moved to be outside than others, and we love love love getting outside, but I was thinking we when our, our oldest when she was just a baby she would just just call it or whatever, just cry cry cry cry cry.


Manley Feinberg: And here we are in Minnesota. She’s born in


David Horsager: February, you know,


David Horsager: For referral, but we could do one thing and stop it. Just step outside to step outside for a second. And she said, Oh, and it wasn’t just because it was bitter cold.


Manley Feinberg: Even in June, you know,


David Horsager: July and we lived in a little place, then we’re starting our first company. We had no money to speak of. But we’d get out of this little duplex or


David Horsager: Double bungalow and we just shoot. Just go create and we could get outside, it’s like, wow, something about that getting outside and feeling the wind.


David Horsager: Yes, God’s creation and whatever, you know, it’s


Manley Feinberg: With your loved ones. See, that’s like the ultimate combo. And the second part of that for me is if I can do that. My wife and kids. It’s just, it’s magic. You know, I think, I think there’s


Manley Feinberg: There’s no doubt. I think I mean some people had bad experiences in the outdoors, so they don’t they don’t do it, but I get out much. But yeah, I think we’re really meant to be.


Manley Feinberg: You know, connected to the in the outdoors and it if you think about historically we’ve been around a lot longer than all the infrastructure and comfort we built


Manley Feinberg: So all those years of wiring are are really powerful. If you can love reductionism lot of studies that show that your brain chemistry from creativity and from productivity and it actually directly impacts your walk on a treadmill versus a walk in the park or dramatically different.


David Horsager: Tell me this, you know, your executive years and you’ve had leadership, a lot of different places and you have your own company now and all that, but


David Horsager: Build a Bear, that’s a fascinating place. You were there in the just the growth stages from, you know, 4400 plus stores. What were some things that you learned from that experience that we might take away as we grow company.


Manley Feinberg: That’s a great, great question. You don’t have learned most from Build A Bear and it’s really the secret don’t bury it right wants to know, like what’s the secret.


Manley Feinberg: What, what, how did you take a teddy bear. Not me. I was a team, right, and I’m not the founder, by the way, people sometimes get that mixed up. Give me more credit than I do but


Manley Feinberg: When what was made what we were selling as an experience. It’s not about the bear. I mean that that’s the object, but


Manley Feinberg: You can buy a teddy bear anywhere in this is probably the founder Maxine Clark. So, good friend of mine.


Manley Feinberg: She heard this over and over, when she went to the investors initially pure like where you can get a teddy bear anywhere. What’s


Manley Feinberg: It’s about the experience. And so he and I think the customer experience is not nothing new. And most people know what that means. The difference is


Manley Feinberg: That we were relentless about everything we did that the customer experience informed every single decision in the company and i mean i mean obsessive Lee from start to finish.


Manley Feinberg: It’s a very, it’s like it’s like for you like the organization’s you’re involved with and you influence that are ideal and know what trust really is about


Manley Feinberg: It’s not uncompromising like this is how we operate right. So a couple examples. One we coated EVERY Bathroom and every store.


Manley Feinberg: For at public access and we built it to code for public access, which is more expensive right and and it operationally can be


Manley Feinberg: You know, kind of epic. It can be problematic. But Maxine’s question was always that, you know, if someone comes to your home and they ask you to use the restroom.


Manley Feinberg: What’s the answer, of course, right. So we went to great lengths to make sure that people can use the restroom and it was really just for that very. So we could say yes to that answer.


Manley Feinberg: That’s, you know, that’s the kind of decision. I don’t think gets made, unless you’re really relentlessly focused on


Manley Feinberg: What, how does this affect the experience. So, and I was a lot involved a lot in our software systems in business. Every business system that was behind the scenes running the business, especially first half of my career.


Manley Feinberg: All those decisions. You know how you there’s a lot of, you know, do we do we make this decision that makes us most profitable.


Manley Feinberg: On the short front end versus how does this affect the process of that I know as a point of sale. As an example, when people come into the register.


Manley Feinberg: Their decisions you have efficiency versus customer experience. And anyway, we always came back to that another quick one was just operationally people get a kick out of it as


Manley Feinberg: We told people that you know people can use a phone. And so they came and asked before cell phones were so so ubiquitous.


Manley Feinberg: Someone needs to use the phone. You say, yeah, absolutely. And then so people always ask what it was long distance


Manley Feinberg: We had a great long distance rate, let them use the phone. So it just you know those experiences that focusing on the customer experience with being really


Manley Feinberg: Whatever you know you if you’re watching this reading or listening. Maybe you’re committed to the customer experience, but


Manley Feinberg: I would challenge you to take that to a completely different level. And it’s going to pay off that it does, it pays off. And it makes a huge difference when you are seeing the world through that. Yeah, that’s true highly valued, no matter what for you.


David Horsager: That’s a, that’s a great. I mean, it’s been fun to watch you grow and all these things. What, what do you, what are you doing now to grow, you know, we talked about, what are you learning these days. What’s your top kind of


David Horsager: Learning in the process, you’re in right now, and your own company and and all that you’re doing. Now, what’s the key learning right now.


Manley Feinberg: I’d say Hi, I have a degree in psychology and so I’ve always been fascinated with psychology. Why do we do we want to do, why do we not do what we should know we should do.


Manley Feinberg: Why do we do things. We shouldn’t be doing it. All right. And so for me right now. I’m trying to re engineer my brain and


Manley Feinberg: Especially with this year and all the stress and I have noticed that


Manley Feinberg: I think


Manley Feinberg: Having a little bit of an edge has a pro posttraumatic stress because then people go through like war and stuff. They’re like, really extreme I think have


Manley Feinberg: Just some subtle version of that. And I think a lot. I’ve heard other experts talk about this, that, you know, we’ve gone through a lot of trauma this year as a world and as a humanity.


Manley Feinberg: And so for me, there’s just little, little clues things that my system got I got so much with all the moving personal stuff going on my capacity to handle stressful events.


Manley Feinberg: Was lowered right but my stress was so high you that we will have this page right you’re driving home like one little thing set you off that normally wouldn’t set you off.


Manley Feinberg: So I’m trying to get that water level back down in part of that as me as being an awareness that we talked about earlier right and and becoming aware of the thought. Just a thought patterns presenting


Manley Feinberg: In in the looping, you know, like, oh, you know, whether it’s dreadful or you’re not feeling good, or are you being pessimistic in being aware of those thought patterns and just dropping them.


Manley Feinberg: Which meditation helps me with a lot, by the way. So that’s a we talk some about that. But, um, but, yeah, that’s so that’s growth wise. I’m trying to work on.


Manley Feinberg: How the emotional response and you know the cocktail of endorphins and hormones that we drop in the bloodstream and we’re presented with a stimulus. It’s basic science but changing it is, you know, changing humans is not easy.


David Horsager: So to that point, you said something to the book in the book, by the way, is vertical lessons and you can go to vertical lessons calm to see a whole lot more about Langley.


David Horsager: Excuse me, but mainly or watch him speak or anything else but you talking about challenging beliefs. Like, I’m thinking and you talk, you know,


David Horsager: A lot of people when they go climbing with you’ve taken executive teams climbing when when there wasn’t a pandemic and that’s part of what you do.


David Horsager: But you got people that are scared or fearful and I’m thinking about myself right so you know this about me but I


David Horsager: You know 20 plus years ago I was caught under something in in water and almost drown. I had been a lifeguard. And I love to swim, but I’m underneath this this basically big black thick.


David Horsager: Blanket. Basically, and you know, can’t get out and think I’m gonna die. Open my eyes under there. And finally, you know, find a way out. But, but it kind of it’s made me claustrophobic and


David Horsager: You know, I think I often tell people you know of the


David Horsager: Couple hundred flights. I’ve often done a year 100 maybe 100 round trips, you know, people don’t pay me to be there. I love what I speak about I love what I share on. I love the boardroom work that I do, but


David Horsager: Getting on that plane, especially if I’m not on the outside. I’ll and everybody stands up


David Horsager: And I feel like I can’t move. Like, I get it. And I can feel that. And I think, well, okay, how do I challenge this belief or, you know, it’s like it’s


David Horsager: Easy to say I’ll challenge this belief of whatever, whatever it is, the challenges. But how do you actually challenge it to change.


David Horsager: In a positive way.


Manley Feinberg: It’s a great, great question, because the whole lesson is challenging your beliefs. But the other the pre pre a point is


Manley Feinberg: Stop chasing behaviors. Right. So in environment of, you know, like a team that team environment you see someone you keep telling me what you want. What you need them to do and they’re not doing it as a great example. So this is


Manley Feinberg: A little bit simpler, probably, than what you’re dealing with. To be able to look at that situation and say,


Manley Feinberg: Okay, I’ve had keep asking you to do this. This is the behavior. I’m asking for


Manley Feinberg: But why are you not doing it. What do you, what is your belief that you must be so you can do this in a very disarming way, by the way, it’s really can create a shoulder to shoulder environment versus head to head.


Manley Feinberg: You know, what is it, what are you, what is it, what is your belief about, you know, doing this process. In this way, or why you skipping this step as you keep I keep asking you to keep in this conversation.


Manley Feinberg: What’s the belief behind that. What’s driving that. So it takes. It’s a harder conversation, but it gets you to the result faster. I think for what you’re talking about. And, you know, challenging your belief.


Manley Feinberg: Around a fear right is them and I, by the way, I’m a lot of you think I’m just some crazy no fear kind of guy, but your story about drilling terrifies me.


Manley Feinberg: I here’s another good example I would have no interest of jumping out of a plane. I had a 75 year old grandma walk up to me after keynote. And she said, Would you would imagine. Oh yeah, that’ll


Manley Feinberg: Never. She said, Do you want it. Would you go parachuting with me. And I said, No, ma’am. I have no


Manley Feinberg: Interest in jumping out of a plane. She said, good. I’ll never go rock common view that looks crazy. I said, Well, what your day looks crazy to me. So it’s all relative. Right. We have these


Manley Feinberg: These paradigms. We get into and settled into and concrete ourselves into and based on your experience. I mean that’s that’s there’s a there’s a really good example of what I’m talking about right we you have this event.


Manley Feinberg: And your brain is created. It’s got it confused this stimulus is you’ve got the response confused and other scenarios that shouldn’t be. But it’s sort of related right, it feels the same way in some way.


Manley Feinberg: One thing is I think it’s really helpful that I’ve kind of discovered accidentally with a major life decision is it when things are our head. We have there’s


Manley Feinberg: Enough. We’re not very emotionally guarded people human beings. Internally, we still have, it’s just part of the chemistry right our biology biology that we have emotions swimming around and hormones in our brain and


Manley Feinberg: Our responses to stimulus, stimulus around us. So it’s really hard to to get to separate that. So you can get clarity and what’s really factual and what’s


Manley Feinberg: Been amplified by emotions so use an old fashioned pen and paper and writing out


Manley Feinberg: To two different ways to go about it. One is, Ryan. What’s the worst case scenario will say facing a difficult decision and this isn’t another exercise, it’s in the book.


Manley Feinberg: What’s the worst case if you try this if you move forward with this initiative or this decision in your life.


Manley Feinberg: And it doesn’t work. What’s the worst case scenario, what would you do step by step to recover from it. And if you write that out versus just talking about it. It makes it’s amazing when the pen. It’s the paper.


Manley Feinberg: Fear separates from fact if you can get it out of your head. Some right so journaling can be powerful. In that sense, and then


Manley Feinberg: This is asking great questions. We talked about offline as well at something and other vertical SS right questions my meditation coach through this question on me recently as, what does this mean what are, what is this about what is this is the shortest version of what is this


Manley Feinberg: So this is a when you feel that way when you get on a plane that’s a question to ask yourself, What is this, you know what, what, what am I feeling


Manley Feinberg: And then even better, right, that response down right the I’m responding to feeling constricted and


Manley Feinberg: You know it’s claustrophobic. It’s because of drowning thing I’m on a plane. I know planes are safe. You write out the facts that you know in your head and just


Manley Feinberg: Write a brainstorm that out and then read it back to yourself, you know, on the read out loud, but every bag and when it’s interesting when you see the words on paper versus the words just swimming or head. It can be really liberating.


David Horsager: I’ll just read it to the my seatmate that sees me sweating.


As


David Horsager: I’m just, I’m just going to read this to you really quick.


David Horsager: You want to stay sitting by me.


David Horsager: So, so let’s take that one more level because you know I was interested in the asking, you know, one of the vertical lessons is really about learning to ask better questions and you know another person.


David Horsager: On the podcast Patricia Fripp says that the key to converse, say, the key to connections conversation key to conversations questions.


David Horsager: Therefore, learn to ask, great questions.


David Horsager: And I mean you can you can lead but through questions you can drive conversation through questions, but just give us some help on as as a trusted leader. What are some great questions, or how do you come to great questions that actually help lead motivate whatever


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, they you know that


Manley Feinberg: It’s a term that loop, right. So I think that one of the keys is you have to listen first


Manley Feinberg: And for. So if you’re talking about yourself. First of all, we talk about personal leadership some offline to that, how big a piece of this whole puzzle that is for us.


Manley Feinberg: Knowing paying attention. So here’s the example like right there. We talked about you. If you get on the plane, you’re feeling comfortable listening to yourself and heaven realizing having that awareness to step out of that.


Manley Feinberg: Mental thinking loop in your one part of your brain. Try protect yourself.


Manley Feinberg: And being aware of that and listening to that and then being able to respond to what it’s what’s going on here. What is this, I think. So often we were sitting there with


Manley Feinberg: geared up to say we’re going to say, or to how we’re hearing something and we’re just, we’re just ready to respond and


Manley Feinberg: Everything is geared towards saying when I’m here to say when I build up my mind. Gotta say to this person.


Manley Feinberg: And not so much about what are they saying right now. I think we need to prepare. Right. We need to know what we’re going to say, but I think we don’t spend nearly as much time just on what’s the


Manley Feinberg: Here’s a great question for people is, what’s the most important question I can ask to move this forward.


Manley Feinberg: What do and even just a simple version. What’s the most important question I can ask right now that I need to ask. So going into a meeting as an example in because we’re always focused on what we need. We know we need to say, I want to say right


David Horsager: I love because people want the right question, but the question is to ask for what’s the right question then, because the white right question changes every moment with every context.


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I


David Horsager: Love it when you said some about personal leadership, you know,


David Horsager: We believe I’ve said this for a long time, you know, in my quest of helping change, global governments and companies and organizations and all these things, trying to transform things with trust that companies and organizations and even countries they don’t change only individuals change.


David Horsager: But when an individual changes than a team of Family marriage.


David Horsager: Even a company or country can change. And you’ll see that in history. But what’s something you do to lead yourself like you know if if you’re going to change. Others, you’re


Manley Feinberg: You’re working on yourself, what


David Horsager: What’s something you’re doing right now.


Manley Feinberg: I’m just fundamentals. I’m trying to stay in which says surprises a lot of people. I’m not an athlete and even I’ve done athletic things I’m not inherently like


Manley Feinberg: motivated to run as an example or workout every day.


Manley Feinberg: And for some people that are really naturally driven. For me, it’s always been a battle which most Americans, and most people around the world. I think share that same internal battle.


Manley Feinberg: So for me, it’s just fundamentals like that, trying to make sure I’m still eating pretty well, but trying to be more active, which I have been since I’ve been in the mountains full time.


Manley Feinberg: And then on the mental side mental, spiritual side and also ties and emotions is I’ve been meditating. I wonder how many days are over. Now it’s a I can look


Manley Feinberg: So I meditated for at least five minutes, usually I try to tend to 20 but it’s not always 20 minutes 873 days in a row now.


Manley Feinberg: If you really knew me, and which I, you know, you really look pretty well. I’m not a very consistent I’m sort of, you know, bounce around and do different things. I’m not a person who is rigid and have a lot of routine and like our friend Mark blocher as it pops up in my mind is


Manley Feinberg: So it really discipline and does the same routine every day is very good about that for me. I’m the opposite. So it’s, that’s a real struggle but meditation for me has made a huge, huge difference.


Manley Feinberg: In that whole awareness piece and just being aware of the thought and the ego trying to protect ourselves and going through all the scenarios of, you know, fear and otherwise, and worry about


David Horsager: Meditation means a lot of things for different people, what’s, what’s that mean to you.


Manley Feinberg: Yeah. For me, it’s just heard this explanation. The other day of death definition I guess you would say it’s it’s your relationship with your thoughts.


Manley Feinberg: Is that what meditation is really about right is developing that relationship with your thoughts and that, first of all, just being aware of your thoughts nature. I mean, somebody had no separation a realization of that at all.


Manley Feinberg: But most people if you asked him say, Have you ever had a situation where you just realize, hey, man, I’m overthinking this or I’m just freaking out a little bit and I need to, you know,


Manley Feinberg: So when you have that awareness and you realize that. Who’s that who’s having that awareness, right, that


Manley Feinberg: In fact, that’s roommate. Your head is talking and being and you have a sense of like that’s not so that having that clarity on who your true


Manley Feinberg: Self is and from this kind of deep from a spiritual physiological standpoint, but your consciousness is can be aware of your thinking, man, right. So just


Manley Feinberg: Developing that awareness and being able to drop those thoughts, especially if they’re not helpful right that you have your


Manley Feinberg: Your this one part of your brain is in charge of running the program. It’s like your computer, right, left brain got to get


Manley Feinberg: And it’s very good. We need it for a lot of things all day long, but it also does a lot of things aren’t very helpful and


Manley Feinberg: You know, number one of which is worrying and and ruminating thoughts over and over. And I think, you know, that’s been


Manley Feinberg: I mean, everybody. I think none of every single person, but most people have talked to you this year that


Manley Feinberg: Have been challenged with that stress of that and worry and it’s natural. And so the Harbour Bridge supposed to do supposed to keep us alive.


Manley Feinberg: So meditation for for me is about developing my ability to not let that influence being in a negative way, and to be centered and then that yields focus and more clarity and peace and puts me in a more position position to be a more loving person as well.


David Horsager: And and does that come from any is that just start with a blank slate or is there a faith beyond yourself or spiritual component or is it just start with my thoughts and you know i mean this is that totally out of curiosity,


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, yeah. So for me that there is a spiritual component it but it doesn’t have to be.


Manley Feinberg: I know atheist to meditate. And so, and especially that that’s one reason I like that definition it’s you know it’s about your relationship with your thoughts in whether you come from a spiritual standpoint or not it is


Manley Feinberg: For me, I have a kind of interesting religious background, but my half my family’s Jewish and I was raised in a Catholic home.


Manley Feinberg: Growing up in that study Eastern religion and in my current my meditation teacher is a spiritual director as well for me and he’s extremely well versed and we pull he pulls from all different religions.


Manley Feinberg: And so for me it really all comes down to Love Wins and it loves her when no exception, which is Jesus as primary leading principle. Right.


Manley Feinberg: And so that when I when I get confused or unclear that motive, you know, talking about your question i motivation that drives me to come back to, like, what is this about him. It’s really about me serving


Manley Feinberg: And trying to serve. And the more we suffer the sufferings almost always focused on our own focus, you know, focus on ourselves versus others so


Manley Feinberg: That’s a really key piece of it as well as try and get you know


Manley Feinberg: Take care of others and focus on others. And we can’t. There’s not as much room for suffering because we’re we’re focused on me.


Manley Feinberg: Like, I love your thing, too, about your you know your wife and your big speech that moment when your license let tell them you let them know you love them or love them love the audience right now I hundred percent. That’s my whole


Manley Feinberg: Operate when I’m in my rights when I’m operating my best. That’s, that’s where I’m coming from and try to make sure I i think that same for leadership. Right. You don’t have to be honest stage.


David Horsager: Sorry much, but that was when I was a, you know, introduced and receiving a word and basically I just


David Horsager: One thing. My wife has said to me for years backstage when she was traveling with me or from afar. If she’s texting me, and she just said don’t worry about the research. Don’t think about all these things you’re worried about all these things. David just love them. They can tell when


Manley Feinberg: You want them.


David Horsager: And that’s the same whether it’s one on one or one on 1000 is


David Horsager: Making the audience can tell


David Horsager: If that speaker entertainer motivators about all about themselves, or if they’re actually about them, you know, the audience, but if they care about the audience and


Manley Feinberg: But


David Horsager: Yeah, so I want to back up one one second to one thing you said about food because I’m interested in health and keeping healthy. It’s not easy, you know,


David Horsager: A decade ago, almost lost 52 pounds in five months I’ve kept you know I’ve been able to keep about 40 of that off by changing habits, but you know it’s work every day to stay


David Horsager: Fit And Healthy and all that. But you said something about eating right what what what’s that mean what’s what’s, what are some tips that you do, what, what are some things you do to


Manley Feinberg: Yeah.


Manley Feinberg: I guess eating right, good.


Manley Feinberg: Question. So that’s, by the way, it’s been a I have a brother who was a professional quarterback and so I kind of grew up around habit for me and athletes and


Manley Feinberg: So, you know, examining for me is even where that speaker leader, you know, part of part of, I think part of our conversation we’re going to be the best human we can be in serve, we need to live long and healthy life have energy. Right. And so I take it serious as part of part of that whole


Manley Feinberg: Question of how do we, what can we do to optimize our life. So that’s, that’s part of the why, for me, one thing I agree, and I drink a lot of green juice and


Manley Feinberg: The what


Manley Feinberg: You’ve done juicer. I’ve got a juicer. I got a Blendtec all these different you know I’ve done all that to very time consuming as the problem with a lot of that and that convenience issue right it’s the number one issue of Americans here with it.


Manley Feinberg: So here’s a tip for easy tactical tip for people. There’s a grape juice. I like called Soulja is then when it makes it su J. K.


Manley Feinberg: And there’s these big 46 ounce jugs of it. You can get at most big grocery stores. Whole Foods even mainstream groceries.


Manley Feinberg: One is focused on grapefruit is one of the primary ingredients. It’s pretty if you don’t like grapefruit and don’t like green tea. It’s a pretty strong flavor.


Manley Feinberg: I’ve grown to love it though. It’s kind of Queen. She’s got celery and cucumber and stuff in it. There’s another one that’s


Manley Feinberg: It’s a little bit harder to find, but same brand Soulja


Manley Feinberg: I think it’s called a mighty doesn’t an apple juice is the primary based on greed and that so it’s it’s naturally more sweet, it’s got this nice little zing to as well. Ginger in it.


Manley Feinberg: And it’s green. So those are both actually cheaper than we figured out, it’s cheaper than me bond organic produce. Not to mention the time it takes to run it all up.


Manley Feinberg: So I drink a ton of green juice it on video consistent attracted on habitat by the way along. That sounded how many days I meditated in a row. So I track my green juice. Try 12 basic really basic habits that track that in one of which is the green juice.


David Horsager: Give us a couple more of those habits, just for the fun of it right


Manley Feinberg: Yeah. Yeah, good question.


Manley Feinberg: So there. Yeah, there’s, there’s not discipline, but I know better.


Manley Feinberg: I don’t feel like I am.


David Horsager: habits that I track every day. That’s got to be a top percentage of something


Manley Feinberg: The percentage that execute. Most of them is not very has I got the trace


Manley Feinberg: Trace fair default. So I can run through them real quick. Actually it so the current climb. This is your, what’s your most important initiative that you’re working on your life.


Manley Feinberg: Did I move that forward that make one move towards that strategic and tactical focus workout more some kind of workout just five minutes is the goal, by the way.


Manley Feinberg: So you lower the resistance. If you have, the more resistance. Lower the time and you can overcome some mental barriers.


Manley Feinberg: sauna cold plunge of breath work which I haven’t been doing much lately, but I have a sauna and a cold plunge and I do for some mental mental and physical work there and bringing work.


Manley Feinberg: Through a 3D moment my loved ones everyday sisters are the kids away. So that means having a phone call or even just a quick video message or something that’s not just a text message.


Manley Feinberg: And then on the business side I have a pipeline touching it’s moving something forward in the pipeline from the business development standpoint as well as outreach.


Manley Feinberg: Go and then backside here journaling and I have a company to my book is a journal and planner.


Manley Feinberg: Is a daily focus that focuses incorporate some of that vertical lessons and just a daily daily and weekly, monthly, how do we stay focused and get what’s important done so. Did I do that that’s one of them.


Manley Feinberg: Think that’s most of them and Morning. Morning movement. So jumping jacks push ups.


Manley Feinberg: Sit ups and bounce on a rebounder for like three or four minutes. Just a little bit in the morning to get me going is something that’s important as well.


Manley Feinberg: And in the evening. I tried to do a little yoga. I don’t do that very often I meditate in the evening, but I’m that one I’ve hardly ever hit this morning, my journal in the evening is one of those are to my weakest


Manley Feinberg: As far as execution lives. So during the journaling in the evening is, you know, and really as important as it is in the morning. Amen. I don’t


Manley Feinberg: Don’t do very consistently but so


David Horsager: When you look at those 12 you look at them morning and night to see where you are. Do you just do them every morning. You look at her every night. You’ll again.


Manley Feinberg: That’s good question. I sort of check in and not as a. That’s where I need to be more consistent. I don’t really in the morning to clean it resets them so


Manley Feinberg: In the evening I usually look and see, you know, where am I leaving time and which ones can ask to get done and maybe have it when you get all the AMP. I like to use, by the way, is called streaks.


Manley Feinberg: Focuses on the street, right. So that’s the thing about like the meditation. When I do not want to break that streak. There’s something


Manley Feinberg: We know in psychology that people are humans are very motivated. That’s not breaking a streak. So, it focuses it’s built around that, you know, psychological principle really helpful. So I’ve told just different apps. Yeah. Check that one out.


David Horsager: Lots of good stuff here. Wow, we could talk all day.


David Horsager: Yeah, mainly, I’d love to ask you lots more, but we’re gonna jump into the lightning round is wind down for our time together. And here we go. You ready


David Horsager: Got it. Got a good sip of that ginger snappy Sue juice.


David Horsager: There you go. All right. What’s a current favorite book or resource that stood out to you lately.


Manley Feinberg: The untethered soul. Our friend Jason Hewitt recommended this book, years ago it to me. And it’s, it’s been a game changer. Talk about the relationship with the voices in your mind and your head there. It’s an incredibly powerful book that’s my favorite lightly.


David Horsager: And just a reminder ALL THIS ALL BE IN THE SNOW SNOW notes.


David Horsager: As well as the show notes coming from Minnesota today. So the show notes on the site at trusted leader show.com and you’ll see


David Horsager: manley’s website and vertigo lesson site and where you can get the book and where you can get his journal and where you can see videos of him and some of his other stories that he can get to watch him play guitar. By the way, we didn’t talk about that much.


Manley Feinberg: Amazing.


David Horsager: On the electric guitar. So anyway, all that will be at WW trusted leader show.com What’s something you can’t live without.


Manley Feinberg: My family. Yeah.


David Horsager: All right. Hey, my favorite food in the world is ice cream as much as I seek to eat very healthy. Most of the time. What is your favorite flavor.


Manley Feinberg: Cherry heavy by Ben and Jerry’s


Manley Feinberg: And I had a long time. So saying they still make it. I mean, give it to eat more ice cream.


David Horsager: I like it. Well, what’s your favorite food.


Manley Feinberg: Favorite food topic. I think we like ate a lot of ethnic food and I think athlete and Indians have up there as well. So, yeah.


David Horsager: What what motivates you.


Manley Feinberg: To stay focused on serving people and like just how that earlier. If I’m kind of too much in Ireland separately. I am not lose I get lost that. And so that’s that’s important.


David Horsager: Anyway, one piece of advice that you’d say to everybody out there, you know, here’s one thing you could do tomorrow morning. You know, I’ve got all these vertical


David Horsager: lessons I’ve got these things that have helped me climb summits and build businesses, but one tip, they could take away and start tomorrow morning, that would help them be a more trusted leader.


Manley Feinberg: Pick pick one person in your life, personal, professional and not from your inbox, or just from just sit for a second. And the first person hit your head or your heart.


Manley Feinberg: Reach out to that person in the most engaging way you can maybe it’s video. If you can’t see them, if not worse case text message.


Manley Feinberg: And let them know you’re thinking of them and that you believe them and whatever words that are authentic for you.


Manley Feinberg: And I think people need that right now, more than ever, and I think it when you can do that authentically consistently it builds the relationships and based on trust you and I are passionate about.


Manley Feinberg: And then, then the results. You know, I think that’s really about that. That’s what’s going to make the difference and whatever’s next for all this being a miserable struggle or massive summit and success is how we build those relations now.


David Horsager: Absolutely. Everyone cases. Dig your well before you’re thirsty. Right.


David Horsager: It’s kind of like build those relationships. Okay, before I give you the last question of all. Anything else about where to find you. You know, we talked about vertical lessons calm, tell us


Manley Feinberg: Yeah hat. I’m on. I’m on LinkedIn. I’M NOT BEEN I HAVE NOT BEEN SUCH A GREAT WAY TO HAVE BEEN super active on social media, but I am on social media summit vertical lessons calm, you can find social media links there.


Manley Feinberg: My cell phone number is on every page email just reach out to me. I would love to connect with you and support you. Any way I can


David Horsager: That is one thing you are accessible and unless you’re on a mountain, and you just don’t answer.


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, long time. Right, exactly. That’s kind of one extreme, or the other for me.


David Horsager: All right. Lastly, you know, the show. It’s called the trusted leader show for a reason, who is a leader you trust, maybe the most, but someone that stands out to you and why


Manley Feinberg: Yeah, my son, actually, is who comes to mind buried in why I thought about this a lot today actually lead up to this.


Manley Feinberg: He’s, he’s developing leadership skills. And I think it’s something you can definitely develop and I think we every great leader isn’t working on developing their leadership skills and body that so he’s doing that. Some I also believe


Manley Feinberg: You can be born with some natural gifts that also amplify your influence and your ability to lead and he has this X factor.


Manley Feinberg: He’s president of his fraternity this year as a sophomore, which is kind of speaks in itself as an influence. So it’s about he’s hard. I think people know how much he cares and in a stabilizing and he has this steady presence that’s I think they met my son.


Manley Feinberg: He just has this presence about him. It’s really


Manley Feinberg: Calming and confident. I think you feel you feel say when you’re with him.


Manley Feinberg: And for back to line up. I think the person you have to know that they’re in, you know, even if not consciously aware that you it’s somewhat level you’re aware that they’re trustworthy and they have integrity and they care.


Manley Feinberg: And so, yeah, that’s I’m coming off of him and where he is in his life and everything going on and and how he’s operating and so


David Horsager: I’m just going to call version three right


Manley Feinberg: Yeah yeah version three point out decade mailing mailing and the third is official name. So that’s been a leader. I’m most a boy watching right now and paying attention to.


David Horsager: Good. I love it.


David Horsager: Manly. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Thanks for all the tips and takeaways more than that. Thanks for being my friend, you can find everything you’d like about manly at the show notes trusted leader show.com thanks for listening and we’ll see you next time.

Ep. 3: Patricia Fripp on How To Effectively Connect With An Audience

In this episode, David sits down with Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert, to discuss the power of storytelling and how to effectively connect with an audience.

Patricia’s Bio:
Companies hire Patricia Fripp to help them drive more business by perfecting their sales conversations and presentation. She is a Hall of Fame keynotes speaker, executive speech coach, and sales presentation skills expert. Her online learning program, FrippVT.com Powerful, Persuasive Presentations, is embraced as a “must-have” by speakers and companies worldwide. Kiplinger’s Personal Finance wrote that learning presentation skills from Patricia Fripp is one of the best ways to invest in you. She is the author of two books and co-author of another three. In 2019 she was named “One of the Top 30 Women in Sales” and “One of the Top 30 Global Gurus.”

Patricia’s Links:
FrippVT Powerful, Persuasive Presentations online learning: https://www.frippvt.com/
Website: https://www.fripp.com/
Email: pfripp@fripp.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/frippVT/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/pfripp
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/executivespeechcoach/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/frippvt/?hl=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PatriciaFripp

Key Quotes:
1. “It doesn’t matter how good I am at anything, the world has to know.”
2. “You still have to keep promoting because you always have to resell your customers that you have, that you are still the place you want to go.”
3. “Your best customers and clients are the hottest prospects for your competitors.”
4. “There are no free speeches.”
5. “Your message has to be of interest to your audience.”
6. “Think as an audience advocate.”
7. “We respect a position. We will fight in the streets if we feel an emotional connection to the person behind the position.”
8. “Storytelling is about people.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Jack Reacher” by Lee Child (Book 1): https://amzn.to/3pkNyKJ

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show David Horsager here. I have a very special guest. She’s been a coach of mine. She’s coached celebrity athletes and celebrities CEOs around the country and around the world. Welcome, Patricia Fripp


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Thrilled to be with your bedtime. You invited me


David Horsager: Well, I’m thrilled that you’re here because you’ve made a huge difference in my life and 100 speeches or. So I do a year I’m reminded you know by having you on that. Warren Buffett said


David Horsager: You can add 50% to your net worth by becoming a better communicator. You want to you want to add to your worth become a great communicator. And I remember you saying


David Horsager: The key to connection is conversation. The key to conversations questions learned ask great questions and learn to be a better communicator. So let’s get started. Tell us three things that we need to know about Patricia Fripp


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Well, one, I would not say the three things because things isn’t very specific, I would say, what three interesting tidbits other about Patricia Fripp that might not be


David Horsager: Coaching right well we’re going here. This is exactly


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So some of your listeners might be interested in the fact that my brother Robert, for it is a coating the Rolling Stone magazine, the 42nd best guitarist in the history of the world, living or dead so Robert Fripp has a group called King Crimson


And


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: If he were here. You say I not surprised my sister gets paid to tell people what to do because she was a very bossy, little girl. Where does your listeners have already fighting back. David


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Secondly,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I was a hairstylist. I left school at 15


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: To become a hairstylist. I mean, at that point in a small town in England, nobody expected anything of girls but I realized I was more artistic than academic and what I loved about the hair styling business.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Is exactly the same as what I’d love to bite the speaking and I’m coaching and training business and all that. So one


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It is the contacts that you meet new developed relationships with two and the education.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: That you receive one when you have an executive clientele and your hair styling chair or when you have the opportunity to meet executives and sales teams and you learn a little about many companies that makes you more valuable.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And will also might be considered an interesting tidbit for some


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Both Korea’s


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I did not start either with great talent and I am the first to tell you what my superpowers are so I am not being modest, my brothers says my sister is not backward about being forward.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And often, she’s forward about being forward. So I’ll tell you what I’m good at. But I will say I did not start with great talent.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: What I did begin with was an interest in being good. And beyond that, a commitment to do what ever it took to become good


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I learned from people who were super


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now in business. We often hear the advice to get a mental but you know yourself, David. A lot of our mentors, we might never meet many of the great books. The authors that we learned so much from on dead so mentors and teachers everywhere.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So those three interesting tidbits about your guests.


David Horsager: So, so that’s a leap, though, let’s let’s hear about this from the chair to the platform because it you know most people around here know of, you know who you are, I’m sure. But some of my executives.


David Horsager: Some of the senior leaders may not. If you don’t know Patricia Fripp she’s an amazing speech coach. She has helped me. She’s an amazing sales presentation coach. She’s an award winning speaker and writer and speaker in her own right, so she were speaker Hall of Fame.


David Horsager: And you know your messages are powerful. You’ve been on some of the biggest stages in the world. So you’re, you’re not just writing, but you’re you’ve lived it. You’ve done it. But you were a hair. Yeah.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And, you know, and you know what is amazing, David. The all your executives who never heard of me, which is probably most of them. They’ve had wonderful reward lives without ever knowing your basement.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now, hopefully, at least in this show, we can give them a taste of that makes them glad that they were listening.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I came to America 20 no job, no way to live didn’t know anyone, but I knew two powerful lessons about America and remember


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: At the time I came. You didn’t meet many people who’d been to America. I met two people have been to America, we only knew it by the movies. So I knew when I stepped off the boat everyone in America was rich in the streets will pay for movie stars and I have not been disappointed.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Anyway, I got my first job was at the mark Hopkins hotel.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And what I discovered that he addresses in America make 50% commission. Oh. To me, that was a license to steal you got no guarantee no SICK BAY no vacation pay no holiday pay everything was just what you may, and I


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I had learned a very valuable lesson. Before I came to America. I worked on an island or France and I worked with Gentleman from the West End of London.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Who could do hairstyles. I’ve never seen before, that they were a years more experienced than I was. But one day, my boss told me, Patricia


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You bring in 30% more income to the song than the men who are more experienced more talented and, of course, getting paid three times as much money as I was


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: But you see the difference was they thought lunch hours work for eating lunch.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I knew lunches were for squeezing three or four extra customers who could only come at lunch times holidaymakers are rich clientele. They can come anytime. But you’re the shop assistant or you work in the supermarket. You can only go in your lunchtime. So that’s how I created more income.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Will in America working 50% on commission that was a license to steal, but in the mall Calkins hotel I met people from all over the country.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: All over the world I landers Haley males Russell Russell princess and then Mark. She especially asked for me because I was British and then when I was 23 I worked for Jay Sebring who was the Hollywood hairstylist. He took over our song. Now some of your listeners might remember


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Jay Sebring was murdered by the Manson Family


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And even if they didn’t know that from the news JC brings character was featured in what once upon a time in Hollywood. The story wasn’t accurate, but the characters were and what was really fun. I learned from the best


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: But what was amazing. And this is a lesson that served me so well.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: At 23 I’m working for JC


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: JC bring did all the movie stars. Hey, I got an image that I use this morning and and webinar.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Of him cutting George pepper odds here that was in Time magazine for the movie The Blue Max, he, he was interviewed by Playboy and all the main publications when no one else was talking about men say styling and when he took over our salon, he said.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: As soon as herb Cain, which was the popular columnist writes them. I’m in turn the phone will ring off the hook and it did. And I realized when I was 23 years old. It doesn’t matter how good I am anything


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The world has to know and that’s when I became what I would call a shameless self promotion a shameless self promoter. So now you trunks for this into


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The world of social media, my gosh, used to be newspaper magazines radio and TV interviews. Well, so once Jay done


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I became the star. I was the one that was on the talk shows, because although not only was men’s hair styling relatively new, there weren’t many women. So again, I stood out not only because of my work ethic and my personality.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then when I went into business for myself when I was 30 I all my clients I was solidly booked for 15 years was all the movers and shakers from the financial district, the very least year of the young up and coming stockbrokers


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then I started traveling nationwide for hair product company and


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Of course, what do you do with your hairstyle is you talk to your clients. Babe, what’s going on with both you and they would hear I was speaking. So this all comes back to my rotary club Kiwanis Club Lions Club Breakfast Club. Can you speak at my staff meeting.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And after two talks and being the star of my Dale Carnegie class I knew how to stack my idea. So I have notes, but they’re all in my head.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I will ruffle. The guys ball hands when I walked from the crowd and with my personality and and really fun presentation. I find this is a great way to promote my business.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now my best friends in Dale Carnegie. We were so ambitious and we went to every we went to every rally every seminar. We heard


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And we heard bite the national speakers Association.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And Chris Haggerty no no longer with us. But he was a CPA, a speaker. The I heard that was kind enough to talk to me and he said, You must go to the national speakers Association convention.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I, Dave. I’m a great believer. When someone you admire and wish to emulate gives you advice you don’t ask how much does it cost you do it. So I turned up at my first NSA convention I was two years into a 10 year lease and I love the business.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I thought, no one’s going to talk to me. I only talked to rotary clubs and hairdressers, and to situations and Peter


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: One, I saw the image of what was possible because we all know we have to have a vision of what’s possible.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You know, long before we do it. And secondly, I got discovered by Mike Frank who past president Cabot award when their pot you know everything.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And Mike would promote promoted big rallies and in a session called speak to me when you speakers could stand up and do 10 minutes he walked up to me after


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And said you’re the best woman speaker I’ve ever heard. You have a brochure nice though he called me a month later and booked me to speak to 2000 people on the same program with Dr. Robert Schuller who was the minister from Garden Grove. And at the time, one of the most popular speakers.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So only in America and the national speakers Association.


David Horsager: Well, and you become an amazing speaker and an amazing coach. But let’s go back to before we jump there. Let’s go back.


David Horsager: To this wisdom in general.


David Horsager: You know, you said to me.


David Horsager: I mean you’re sitting doing the hair of some of the most brilliant movers Shakers interesting people.


David Horsager: You had to get good at asking questions you had to get good at learning what what’s the best question you ask or what’s a memorable moment from maybe there’s a question you asked everybody that came through. But I think you learn so much from the people


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Who are why did because and what am I earliest speeches was everything I learned by business. I learned behind the hairstyle.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And so free to give you a perfect example.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Ernie bile. I went to his 90th birthday party and book signing.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he died the next morning. Can you imagine going out on your 90th birthday, the day after, when all your friends were they buying your books and celebrating him, but he was in he was in PR


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I used to. I said early if you had a small business like this. How would you promote it and I would often say to people like earning


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You give me so much advice your hair cut spring.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I always remember, for example, goes into being a shameless self promoter Manny lasagna was a multi millionaire and he said to me one day.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Patricia. I don’t care. When you can’t use another stylus into this slot. I don’t care. When you can’t squeeze another client on your schedule.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You still have to keep promoting because you always have to resell your customers that you are that you are still the place you want to go.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because as I teach. Many of my clients, your best customers and clients are the hottest prospects be competitors.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because they already enjoying the product or service. All they have to come and say, We know you’re sold on this. Now we can do at 10% less or we’ve got a magic gizmo that they don’t have


David Horsager: Well, I want to get into speaking soon but I gotta ask one more question here.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because I know people I know people want to hear your wisdom on


David Horsager: On on speaking and communicating and but you’ve talked about promotion a lot over all these years. What’s the best


David Horsager: Best tip you have for promotion as a solo printer or an entrepreneur.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Well, I would go back to the early days in your local community put together a non promotional but an interesting speech and give it to all the local service clubs, because


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: There is no, there are no free speeches, you speak for a rotary club you are in front of 30 to 40 to 50 affluent local business people committed to their community. And if you have an interesting talk. You can meet them. So that’s it.


David Horsager: I love it.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So that’s it. I would say for anyone who has expertise. So a lot of my clients. I will say YouTube


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because it’s the second biggest search engine. And if you have your content, your examples on YouTube or just your advice you can be in the insurance business in the real estate business and just just have five minute


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Educational Videos that busy bills, your credentials and people think you were more famous than you are. And we are no authority. I would also, of course, everybody has to have a website, your company or individually you


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And what I would recommend is what we do is always on a regular basis. Now, the world has changed this year, but we do it this year, but do every way.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: you revisit you refocus and you restrict you revisit what you are saying about your offering


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You refocus. So certainly people still hire me to keynote or conventions, but how I really make my living is helping sales teams or leaders.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Or executives with their presentations. I often go in and I’ll train 100 engineers twice a year for one of my clients.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then go on site and coach them in person. So of course when we refocus my website. It didn’t focus my keynote speaking it’s there but it focuses on everybody that I coach that would be an example of that.


David Horsager: That’s a, that’s a great tip. So let’s get into a few ideas because I can think of many ways. I mean, I think of one of the tips you gave me


David Horsager: A long time ago was get your speech transcribed and cut out all the words that are worthless. Right. And that you had to saying that someone taught you about you got $30 per cents. Tell us about what K told you and you transfer that to me and made me better


Yes.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Okay, who is an acting coach said Patricia words to $10 each and you got $30 for sentence and the average person would say, but sentences have more than three words, yes, but not every words is equal importance.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: That lets us just saying and and even for my civilian clients. I said, what I want you to do is I want you. I like what the order, you’re going to speak and have some opening scripting and closing scripting, but I’d rather you


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Talk through your presentation talk through what you think you’re going to say, have it transcribed.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Don’t type up your speech yourself. It’s too time consuming and most people can’t even speech writers. That was the issue with the client. I was telling you about.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Tom right conversation. So what you do you want your words. So with speakers I say you got your speech, I want to live presentation. I don’t want your highly edited Devo I want what a marry your man.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And we’re having transcribed and then we’ll type Morton actually set. So even for a business executive has talk through what you want to say, have it transcribed because it’s going to start more conversational, then you can go in and edit and add specific language.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then when you have this is what I want to say, and you don’t have to do it through the entire speech, but do the first couple of paragraphs you bold. The words that you put emphasis on


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: They have the $10 words. So I’m going to exaggerate. But this is an example. This is a quote I use in leadership presentations.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Jim General Eisenhower said


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Leadership is the ability to decide what has to be done and then get people to want to do it.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So once you’ve done it in a couple of paragraphs.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Then it’s working on the principle, the quality spreads. So for example, if I’m coaching, someone will work on. Let’s begin work on five minutes.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You know, if you have a coaching camp with 10 people, you know, for a day you come here and I would presentation, but I said don’t worry. Whatever you’re doing in the first five minutes you’ll do in 15 minutes later.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So let’s, let’s, tighten. Let’s get specific. Let’s make it more you focused and then look at the quality of the words and adjectives. So, for example,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Use adjectives. So if you’re writing copy for an event. So, for example, whether it’s a web training or a webinar or conference. I always say mine are action packed content rich audience involving


David Horsager: So let’s go back to the, you know, we’re going to get a lot of tips here today. But there’s a whole lot more fripp.com or Fripp vt.com is fantastic. I know I’ve been transformed I’ve recommended people


David Horsager: Go there get coached whether you personally for a high dollar amount or through your online course for a little bit less if you can’t afford it.


David Horsager: But let’s go to the I remember this. David, you don’t have three ideas you don’t have three tips you know this, you have one big idea, and we call it the premise, tell us


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Yes. Every, every presentation. Every podcast every article every movie every TV show has a premise.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: A big idea a central thing.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So for example, let’s just say


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: If a leader is going to deliver a speech at the January State of the Union.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It might be a it’ll probably be a virtual Tang whole


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now whatever the name of his or her speeches.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: They have an IT MIGHT BE


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: State of, you know, state of the company. It might be our plans the fancy tied for our plans for 2021


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: But the real premise is


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You can have confidence in your leadership.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You’re the right place at the right time.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So there’s often the stated premise and the non stated premise and with every premise, whether it is building trust or you can have confidence in your leader leaders as you go through each segment of your content.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You have to ask yourself is what I am now saying, proving my stated or non stated premise. In other words, you might be saying that you might think yourself night, this is interesting, but has nothing to do with building trust all this is very interesting.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: But I’m going too far away from building confidence in the leadership decisions.


David Horsager: So let’s take that a step further, because this has helped me, this has helped countless leaders, where they instead of just going and


David Horsager: blabbing about nothingness. They have a point that they’re proving and it makes it aligned. It makes for more memorability it makes for more buy in and makes everything better. Right. So what about what about. What would you say if you just say


David Horsager: I’m an executive I need to. I need to be a more trusted leader, I need to communicate better. What do I Patricia, how do I start


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Okay, there are two techniques that every leader needs to know.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And this was after a 30 minute interview with another expert like yourself.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: For blog posts, he said, Patricia, you know, this is great. I got enough information for six blog posts, but come on tell me the number one secret of a persuasive presentation is no one simple


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then I realized a brand new for purpose ism was a bag to fall flawlessly from my lips.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And for the first time in my life, which is nice. Part of my repertoire. I said,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Although, there might not be one secret.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: If they were


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It would be that your subject is of interest.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: To your audience.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now, just let that sink in. And then let’s go back to our leader. So one your message has to be of interest to your audience.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And so you have to what I would call think as an audience advocate. So any leader that says these strategies are going to increase.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The shareholder value and less your employees are shareholders. Leave it either this presentation, keep it for your board of directors, but in your presentation as important as shareholder value. Is it really as job security, you know, quality, all of the the workforce focus on that.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Then


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The next. I don’t know if it’s a secret, but I


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I said, right speech of people. Of course I do. But what I do.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The difference between a speech coach and a speech writer you can give a speech writer information middle righteous speech with me. You’ve got to be actively involved.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because what I do is I asked questions, pull your words and polish them up pop them back in your mouth and say say to the speech writer you write that down.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I was working with one fabulous executive. He really is in in all my one of my favorites. And this is a client attempt client I work with


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And they said, as you know, Patricia were $2 billion software company. We have aspirations of being to Bill 20 billion and all your work you’ve done with the engineer’s the managers, the executives have been great. But the biggest challenge of your career.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I will presidents in France. He’s going to be over here next week.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And we want you to write him a speech. Yeah, he is a brilliant man.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he’s not a bad speaker pretty shy.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Modest


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: An engineer.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And we don’t have any corporate rock stars.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: We need you to write him a speech.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And turn him into a corporate rock star and you got four hours.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So I was locked in the room with this brilliant man. I said, how’d you do


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: If you had one sec, if you had one sentence, rather than 45 minutes. What would you say that’s how I get the premise day if you want one sentence. And he said, this is a brand new company. I said, great right this time, welcome to a brand new company.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And as we’re going through. I’m pulling these, you know, so we will make a statement and I pull more out of him. And then he was talking about this strategy.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I said, Bernard


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: When was the first time you realize the importance of strategy.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he said I was a 14 year old boy, boy, before the French Open


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And everyone came in to see the French Open. They didn’t realize they were going to watch it. Watch a match of the ball, boys.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he said, I was playing against my best friend, and we were equally matched with talent and experience, but our ball boy was his sister and she wanted her brother to win. So she was sabotaging the ball.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: There’s the way she threw them. So I would be at a disadvantage. So he said I had to Patricia was when I learned the importance of strategy when you’re equally match with your competition and you’re at a disadvantage.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I said, Bernard, you have to tell that story. He said they want to hear these stories and I say yes because and this is the secret that every leader needs to know.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: We respect a position President general manager CEO national sales manager.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: We will fight in the streets. If we feel an emotional connection to the person behind the position, and this is why


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You know yourself with your leaders, often they will fight telling personal stories. They don’t think they’re important to let the audience, get a snapshot and find an emotional connection, very important.


David Horsager: So, I love it. And you know what I believe about stories and even though we have a lot of research going on here out of the institute and we put out a new study every year. It’s you’ve said it stories simplify the complex they connect so


David Horsager: How do we, how do we mind for a good story to tell us a few tips about great storytelling from leaders.


David Horsager: I remember this jack Welch, I think, was quoted as saying, what matters is that I’m Irish. And I can tell stories. Right, and I think


David Horsager: The one of the great CEOs of IBM said, you know, we can’t even get the quarterly learnings. We can’t tell everything, but I can tell a story and he get he would get his investments based on just being able to tell a story, the power of story. You know, it’s been thousands of years.


David Horsager: Coming, but


David Horsager: You’ve got some tips about being a great storyteller that that meets those goals of alignment and and by in


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Well, one way, one very simple way. And I with every new client I do my best to do a once upon a time.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So you go back, I always begin with


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Where were you born what did your parents do. What advice did they give you that developed you into the person that you become


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I promise you, almost without exception, any speaker and he NSA chapter like pulled people like the audience and asked them to do this every executive, they could begin a speech with growing up in Cleveland. My dad was an engineer and he always said


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now, again, the advice we got from our parents is universal. But, but we have to go through our lives for the turning points.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And it’s amazing.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Almost every executive like Bernard, it was when he was 14 I was working with an executive from Oracle recently and he had just moved from Microsoft.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I was doing the once upon a time technique and he was in college, and he said,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Professor was a brand new PhD. We were his first class. And he was so excited about teaching in the subject, which was really information and what you take from it. And I said,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It was his club and did that made you do what you are now doing that brought you here.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he sat back and he said, You know, you’re right. I would never have thought of that. But you’re absolutely right. It was his class that led me to where I am now it’s finding in a movie day but this would be the different inciting incidents of which there’s no turning back.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Shipping many of the stories. And I want to tell you a story that Bernard told me


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Stories can be simple.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And a lot of the lofty ideas or ideals of values that are companies have might be difficult to explain. And I was working with Bernard. The my favorite executive


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And he and he was talking about corporate citizenship and this was a point in the speech that it would be the second act climax, we needed something powerful before we started wrapping it up and the call for action.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I said, Bernard


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: How would you describe corporate citizenship to your children.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: He said, Patricia was the day after Christmas, nice both my children down


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And said, You are very lucky children because you have generous parents and even more generous grandparents, and perhaps you would like to give us one of your presence on one of your gift certificates and we will cash in and give the money to children who no longer have homes.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: He said, I was so proud of my 14 year old son. He said, Papa.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: How much do I give you, because I could give you all of my savings and all of my pocket money and all of my Christmas presence and it wouldn’t be enough to make a difference. How much do I give


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And Bernard said, I told them.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Oh, you never give it all.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You just give enough that it hurts.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now that story. David takes less than one minute to tell


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And it illustrates some very important messages about storytelling Story telling is about people it might be a company and the company, but it’s really people within the companies who develop relationships and make decisions and partner and sell or buy


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So it’s characters and characters speak and we like to hear them speak if that story was transcribed.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: 90% of it would be in quotation marks. So a secret is a lot of people tell stories where they report on the dialogue.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: So my son was asking me how much could be good because he could give me all know what makes a story come alive and how you can have the emotion and the telling is to deliver the dialogue out of the characters, Max.


David Horsager: I love it, I love it. I think there’s many things that you’ve taught me but one is being there. Putting yourself there. Another is an opening. I’m going to give away my favorite Fripp opening


All right.


David Horsager: There are many and you can go to fripp.com you can hire Patricia and you’ll get I know at least 10 different kinds of ways of opening a speech. Most people don’t use any of them. That’s why they open terribly but


David Horsager: Just imagine


David Horsager: Just imagine or


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Imagine what you’re doing and and to put the story behind it.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It is. It’s transporting the audience to a different time in place. So for example, if you transport them into the future. Imagine you paint a scene of what’s possible. And then you bring them back and say, will that be your reality depends on action today.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I love. And then if you want to take them to the past is this is another I wish you could have been


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Now that’s obviously in the past two meters and wish you could have been because what we have to do is we tell our stories, but we have to bring the audience into them. I wish you could have been. You could also say


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: If you lived in wimborne Dorset. When I was growing up. These are ways that you bring the audience into your own store, there’s a


David Horsager: And there are little things that make a huge difference. People don’t


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I wouldn’t call them little things I would call them.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Subtle techniques.


David Horsager: That’s right.


David Horsager: So we got it we got to just touch on one idea or one moment, I should say, you know,


David Horsager: There was a time when you were


David Horsager: Part of 60 minutes


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You’re kind of PO. Yes.


David Horsager: Shown off. So why do you why, then,


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The National speakers Association convention 2016 minutes came for five days of filming. They build the keynote speeches and they interviewed dozens and dozens of people, everyone. We’re standing alone. We all want to be on 60 minutes


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I realized if I’m going to get on 60 minutes I have to speak in a same bite statement something short tight a tweeter will land quote day long before anyone in Twitter.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And and they they said to me, you know, used to be a hairstyle is not your speaker got to be a big difference. And I said when I was a hair stylist. I worked on the outside of the head. Now I’m a motivational speaker I work on the inside of the head. There’s only half an inch difference


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And then I I often say that line got me on 60 minutes that half inches made me millions of dollars, but not all in the same year.


David Horsager: Oh, I love it. Well, let’s go through just a couple of my favorite Fripp isms and just give a quick comment if you want to. And some of them we’ve mentioned today. One of them is


David Horsager: I said it before, but I’m going to say it again. This one, the key to converse. The key to connections conversation that heated conversation is questions there for learn to ask, great questions.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: It wasn’t exactly my exact quote is the key to connection is conversation.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: The secret of conversation is to ask questions.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And the quality of the information we receive depends on the quality of your questions.


David Horsager: So with that give us a favorite question. I’m sure your favorite is context to that situation, but maybe you have a type of favorite question that


David Horsager: gets at something that commonly something you commonly asked


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: An executive what I commonly asked


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because my philosophy. If I have an inquiry.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: About coaching get in a zoom call and it’s what I call a pretend you’re already hired me and for any of your executives interested P repent for it. Don’t call so we get in a zoom meeting. And my first question is, if we were locked in a room together what presentation, would we be working


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And I coach on whatever that presentation is well they might me. It’s amazing. I’ve had people I have to give an important presentation today after tomorrow. This happened two weeks ago.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: We better get the work. So for the next two hours. So after 30 minutes I said the purpose of this to see if you want to work with me, I assume. Oh yes, you said let’s keep going. Book the clock on. So that’s my most frequently asked favorite question.


David Horsager: I like it. So how about this. I’m going to go through a few might be redundant. It’s okay. It would be valuable for people to hear specificity builds credibility.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Yes, my most frequently asked question of all my clients is if it weren’t a thing, what would it be, it is not specific.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: An example one of my brilliant engineers in his presentation at a was going to be for a customer user conference. He said, there are two things. People love about


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I said if they weren’t things, what would they be he said innovative upgrades.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: I said there are billions of people in the world. What people love your innovative upgrades. He said systems administrators


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Can you see the difference in the quality that communication two things. People love a bag completed to innovative upgrades that systems administrators love


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And this is how I help technical presenters. I don’t necessarily understand what they’re talking about. However, I help them say it in a much more clear, concise and credible way.


David Horsager: Communication builds trust one more the person behind the position.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Yes, it is giving a behind the scenes look


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: To your audience a snapshot of a of a scene in your life that shows your value or how you learned what you’re teaching


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: On communicating


David Horsager: Gives depth. Great.


David Horsager: Patricia I could ask you questions all day. We got to get to the lightning round. These are going to be quick and you’re just going to answer first response. Are you ready for the lightning round.


David Horsager: Yes. Here we go. First of all, what is a book or resource that stood out to you lately.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Oh well, I always read thrillers, so anything by league stifled by jack Reacher


David Horsager: Great one. What’s something you can’t live without.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Coffee an email.


David Horsager: My favorite food is ice cream. What is your favorite ice cream flavor.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Oh, chocolate.


David Horsager: What’s your favorite fruit rip


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Vegetables.


David Horsager: Great. That’s why you stay so healthy right


David Horsager: What motivates you.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Feeling tailing competent


David Horsager: If you are going to give leaders around the world, a piece of advice today. Maybe it’s something you heard, will you are cutting hair, what would you tell them some tips, they could apply tomorrow morning.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Focus on your top activity every day.


David Horsager: And what’s that for you right now.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Sending an invoice.


David Horsager: Good. I like it. Before we wrap up, I want everybody to know where they can find this amazing lady Patricia Fripp fripp.com where else would you like them to find you.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Well, if you go to free.com you can sign up for free resources, David was talking about my opening lines. One of the free resources is


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: opening lines for presentations and opening techniques as well as how to how to speak and teach in the virtual world. So we have a special free reports right on the top free resources.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: You can also look at events any public event open to the public or webinar like this morning. I had a business strategy free webinar with four experts.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: And there are 1000 blog posts and if you want a conversation with me. Click contact and we can give you your pretend you already hired me


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Know, Fripp VT. You can also find that on the top bar of bread is my highly interactive learn at your own pace.


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: presentation skills powerful persuasive presentations for the team the best of what I’ve learned in 35 years 24 seven mean just jumping out always looking good. Always terrible giving me great advice.


David Horsager: Wonderful. Love it. So last question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: My brother Robert Frank


Patricia Fripp, Presentation Skills Expert: Because he is probably the most ethical person I know who is very influential in the music industry and with anyone who knows him. So he is not running a fortune 100 company, however, he’s the leader that live says like practically


David Horsager: Love it.


David Horsager: Well, it has been a pleasure to have you on. We need to have you back to mine even more wisdom, but you’ve given a treat to leaders around the world and in your


David Horsager: Insights and in your presence and I just thank you. Patricia mostly for being my friend, and it’s a treat to have friends on not just brilliant people so


David Horsager: Thank you so much for that all the show notes, all the way to find your way to fripp.com or my friend for Patricia Fripp art can be found at trusted leader show.com. Thank you for listening to the trusted leader show and we’ll see you next time.

Ep. 2: John Lee Dumas on The Common Path to Uncommon Success

In this episode, David sits down with John Lee Dumas, Founder and Host of Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast, to discuss what makes a great entrepreneur and his new book The Common Path to Uncommon Success.

JLD’s Bio:
John Lee Dumas is the founder and host of the award winning podcast, Entrepreneurs On Fire. With over 100 million listens of his 3000+ episodes, JLD has turned Entrepreneurs On Fire into a media empire that generates over a million listens every month and 7-figures of NET annual revenue 8-years in a row. His first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success is available for pre-order now with 5 amazing bonuses at UncommonSuccessBook.com.

JLD’s Links:
Social: @johnleedumas
The Common Path to Uncommon Success by John Lee Dumas book: https://amzn.to/3d1Gtw7
The Common Path to Uncommon Success book website: https://uncommonsuccessbook.com/
Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast: https://www.eofire.com/

Key Quotes:
1. “Try not to become a person of success, but rather a person of value.” – Albert Einstein
2. “You have to become the single best solution to a real problem in this world.”
3. “An individual who is providing the best solution to a real problem. That is the best entrepreneur.”
4. “They don’t just wait to long to launch…they wait way too long” – Reed Hoffman
5. “Identify your big idea.”
6. “What is the piece of the world that you know that you can fix?”

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
Clubhouse app: https://www.joinclubhouse.com/
JLD’s blog on Clubhouse app: https://www.eofire.com/what-is-the-new-clubhouse-app-and-why-you-should-join/
“The Lifestyle Investor” by Justin Donald: https://amzn.to/2Z1Kj0l
ScheduleOnce calendar app: https://www.oncehub.com/scheduleonce
Boomerang app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/boomerang-from-instagram/id1041596399
Gmail: https://www.google.com/gmail/about/#

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager. I’ve got a special guest today.


David Horsager: 1.4 million people, listen to him every week over 100 million people have listened to him.


David Horsager: and his show entrepreneurs on fire he’s got a new book coming out we’re going to talk about that, but what I it’s so fun when I find an authentic generous leader.


David Horsager: And then hear a little bit more about him, I mean he was he won a car on we got to talk about that just for a second you want a car on the price is right back about a decade ago he’s been featured on a Bollywood.


David Horsager: movie of the year 2009 his name is John Lee Dumas he fondly by his fans goes by JLD he grew up in a town four times bigger than mine, as you know, that is less than 2000 people for him because mine was less than 500 please welcome to the show JLD.


John Lee Dumas: David, you are a pro you dug deep into the archives, my friend, you pulled us some things that people haven’t mentioned for quite some time but.


John Lee Dumas: I will say, if you want a little chuckle just go to YouTube type in john Lee Dumas price is right and you’ll get 11 minutes of how I want a car, the price is right and it’s it’s funny 11 minutes.


David Horsager: that’s perfect I can’t wait and you know hey another little fun connection is you’re getting into pickle ball.


John Lee Dumas: I am officially a pickle baller I have the tennis elbow to prove it and I live in a Community down here and Paul miss del mar Porto Rico and we have a whatsapp group no names pickle del mar so you know that we’re the real deal.


David Horsager: that’s that’s awesome so we’re going to get into three things, especially I love more time i’m going to talk about podcasting down and talk about the new book today and I want to talk about the.


David Horsager: Well, just another section of just kind of trusted leadership like we talked about all the time, so i’m excited about this before I do you know, two more things we need to know about God.


John Lee Dumas: How man you pulled up the two that I would usually pick out at this moment, I mean the pickup ball, the Bollywood movie you know into my prices right thing, how about this, I have an amazing 10 month old dog.


John Lee Dumas: puppy specifically his name is Gus he’s a golden doodle I love him dearly he’s named after Gus mcrae from a lonesome dove if anybody’s ever seen that movie or read that book.


John Lee Dumas: And I would say the other thing is I just proposed to my 10 year girlfriends, who is now obviously my fiance because she said yes on Christmas Day.


David Horsager: and her name is Kate and she’s your partner in business and life.


John Lee Dumas: Yes, and I locked it down.


David Horsager: There we go good.


David Horsager: This podcast I mean since 2012 you know you’ve got these you know a lot of people start podcasts a lot of start people try to start media empires.


David Horsager: You did it and we know how you did it I like something you quoted a while ago and I actually I forget to quote my head, but basically you had a tipping point when someone said.


David Horsager: hey stop selling and start providing value tell me about that tipping point, because I think that was the tipping point in how you built this community that actually is so valuable now to you because you evaluate them first.


John Lee Dumas: i’ll back up a little bit from there to give you guys some context so as David mentioned, I grew up in the state of maine very small town less than 2000 people.


John Lee Dumas: In what the College on an army scholarship so post college, I spent four years as an active duty officer did a 13 month tour of duty in Iraq in charge of four tanks and 16 men so.


John Lee Dumas: Pretty intense stuff and when it got out I spent the next six years, thinking that my life was set, but it was actually the worst six years of my life I call it my six years of struggle, because.


John Lee Dumas: I tried law school I dropped out for one semester, I was terrible I tried corporate finance I quit commercial real estate, not for me, like all these different things.


John Lee Dumas: I cannot find success, so I started to educate myself, and this was towards the end of those six years, by the way, of all these failures by reading business books audiobooks.


John Lee Dumas: And this one quote jumped off of a page when I was reading this book and the quote was from Albert Einstein.


John Lee Dumas: try not to become a person of success, but rather a person of value and it was like somebody back slapped me which I needed and I said wait a second i’ve been chasing success and obviously only finding failure but i’ve been chasing success and what am I doing.


John Lee Dumas: To provide value in this world, and I looked in the mirror and the hard reality was, I was not providing value in this world in any way, shape or form.


John Lee Dumas: So in that moment I committed to whatever my next venture would be, it would be providing free valuable and consistent content to this world.


John Lee Dumas: I did not know what that was going to be, but I kept on with my journey learns started listening to podcast because that was free so that was awesome.


John Lee Dumas: And I fell in love with a medium I just loved podcasts.


John Lee Dumas: And to fast forward the story just a little bit David I essentially finally said hey I want to find a daily podcast at interviews entrepreneur, so I can listen to it every day and get inspired.


John Lee Dumas: And the show did not exist, and I was shocked that this show does not exist, it was so obvious me this needed to exist in the world.


John Lee Dumas: So I pulled the page out of gandhi’s book excited to be the change, you want to see in the world, I launched the first daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs.


John Lee Dumas: not ashamed to say it, David the day that it launched, it was the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs.


John Lee Dumas: It was the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, it was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, I was the only game in town, so of course.


John Lee Dumas: I one on my level, there is no competition if you wanted a daily podcast which enough people did this was the only one doing it, seven days a week interviewing entrepreneurs and.


John Lee Dumas: As you and I speak now, as you mentioned a little bit in the intro 3000 episodes 100 million listens 1.4 million listens every single month and growing that’s the media empire I built off of that one concepts, how can I fill that void you’ll.


David Horsager: This is perfect, yet you know filling a void giving value.


David Horsager: you’ll find, by the way, we’ll put all this in the show notes, he oh fire.com and you can find podcasts you’ll will be talking about that brand new book i’m excited about in just a few moments I just ordered it myself.


David Horsager: The bonuses are amazing you know, we have our own book trusted leader comes out march 30 but.


David Horsager: This is you’ve got you’ve got an amazing set up going i’m really excited to get into that before we do podcasts.


David Horsager: there’s all kinds of now you started at a time when there wasn’t you know, a decade ago there was a few less podcasts but you got good tell me about the best or one of the best interviews yet 33,000 interviews tell me about one of the best what and what made it great.


John Lee Dumas: One of the best sources by a gentleman named Aaron Walker and he came on my show, I had no idea who he was he came recommended.


John Lee Dumas: He really had some great connections he’s in a mastermind with Dave ramsey and Dan Miller and some other awesome people.


John Lee Dumas: But i’d never heard of him before I started interviewing him, and she was just so genuine so real and then he shared this one quote.


John Lee Dumas: That I needed to hear at the time it was earlier on in my journey, but I was definitely having success and I started to wonder like.


John Lee Dumas: Is this all there is like success like i’m having success and making six figures, a month, but i’m having success and notoriety and this quote, that he shared really set me up for even more success which was.


John Lee Dumas: Try to go from success to significance that was like that’s it I got to success now when a move towards significance and that’s kind of been one of my major focal points going forward is that.


John Lee Dumas: I could have retired long ago sipping MAI tai’s by my Caribbean pool right here loving life like doing nothing but it’s all about significance to me it’s all about.


John Lee Dumas: Continuing to provide value to this world and seeing other people live in love and thrive, because of that, and not because of the words that are always coming out of my mouth, but because of.


John Lee Dumas: The conduit that i’m giving with entrepreneurs on fire, allowing other people to come on my stage and share their genius their zona fire with other people that’s what I do on my show I shine the spotlight on others who have amazing stories to tell that was powerful.


David Horsager: that’s been one of my favorite things about this, you know, I was flying 100 times a year, a couple hundred flights, a year.


David Horsager: hundred events, a year and I was like I can’t do a podcast I can’t make my you know try but asked for one people, we talked about on the as far as our team.


David Horsager: Doing this the gift is I get to talk to people like you I get you every time I learned i’m inspired i’m changing and that’s the fun of keeping on learning.


David Horsager: you’ve had a whole lot of interviews, this is a question I have for you answer the same question, by the way, and he just passed away, not long ago I had for Larry King when I was invited to his home, I said, you know here’s a guy who’s invited.


David Horsager: All these people interviewed all these the kings and Queens and presidents and I said what’s your favorite question to ask and i’ll get to what his favorite question was but what’s your favorite question to ask.


John Lee Dumas: what’s something that you believe right now that you did not believe, six months ago.


David Horsager: And so we got to finish the finish the circle, the question is back to you what is something you believe right now that you didn’t believe six months ago.


John Lee Dumas: that there could be an audio only APP in the world’s that would absolutely be a powerhouse.


John Lee Dumas: And, six months ago that APP did not exist, I would not have believed that if you told me it, and now I see what’s happening in the world with clubhouse and i’m like wow I was wrong clubhouse is here to stay, it is awesome and I kind of love it.


David Horsager: So clubhouse for those of us for some even listening it’s really new.


David Horsager: In fact, one of the blogs that maybe the best blog i’ll just shout it out right now go to Eo fire look at jail these blog he’s got a whole blog on it, explaining.


David Horsager: and talking about it we’ve been talking about around here for a while, but you can look at that blog if you don’t know what clubhouses and why, at least God thinks it’s different and better.


David Horsager: than many others that have gone away like periscope, but we can think of all the others right so perfect will go there with that what’s the what’s the best question you’ve been on a lot of podcasts you what’s what’s one of the best questions you’ve been asked.


John Lee Dumas: What is something that you believe, about being successful that most people disagree with.


David Horsager: What is something you believe, about being successful, so this is great because we just make up questions on the fly alright so let’s break that one down for me can, by the way, so i’m going to put that one back to you.


John Lee Dumas: have your.


John Lee Dumas: questions.


David Horsager: Exactly we’re learning as we go right, one of the exactly i’ll stop doing this after this question, I think.


David Horsager: What i’m not gonna make promises, because then you won’t.


John Lee Dumas: Start serving up softball Oscar.


David Horsager: what’s the what’s the answer.


John Lee Dumas: So one thing that I believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with is that you have to become the single best solution.


John Lee Dumas: To a real problem in this world, and what I mean by that is a lot of people are saying, going to spread your wings try a lot of things you know be you know.


John Lee Dumas: ready to flex and do this and do that, and you know go one mile wide one inch deep try these things out.


John Lee Dumas: You will fail, in my opinion, and try to become successful with that mentality, you need to find one real problem in this world that you want to solve and become the number one best solution to that problem, doing nothing else until you achieve that goal.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: find one real problem in this world bb best solution to that problem.


John Lee Dumas: A key addition to that, that I did add, which was that you want to solve, because you shouldn’t solve just any old problem that’s out there, you need to want.


John Lee Dumas: To solve that problem which goes into my whole 17 separate about that I know that will be getting to in a minute here, but the key is that i’m talking about it’s got to be in your big idea it’s got to be in your zone of fire and we teach you how to get that great.


David Horsager: Okay, we are going to get to get those seven.


John Lee Dumas: not yet Oh, we get to hear about your king’s favorite question.


David Horsager: yeah we gotta get we got him on the hook so Larry King said.


David Horsager: My favorite question is why, because when I can ask why I it gets to motivation it’s the motivation, people have for the it’s the purpose they have for things it’s it’s they just answered differently than when I asked him.


David Horsager: You know something’s how did they do that or something about history like.


David Horsager: Not just your history not just who you are but well why, why did you choose that and.


David Horsager: I thought that was fascinating, I think, why is the big motivator plenty of our friends plenty people you know, Simon centric others talk a lot about the why.


David Horsager: I, are you, it is not the key question that the the most overlooked question that actually drives strategic clarity.


David Horsager: But people know that from me and they can get on my show and here’s what I think are the top three questions that drive.


David Horsager: Strategic clarity that actually give hope that take an idea to an action.


David Horsager: I do agree with him and cynic and others that believe, why is the key motivator, the problem is they got a why and there’s many ice are seeing kumbaya right off the cliff cliff because they’re not asking the three questions.


David Horsager: We talk so much about as far as trusted leaders, we want to get back to you So here we go.


David Horsager: let’s go to one more because it’s entrepreneurs on fire, you heard all this great advice, what do you think makes a great entrepreneur.


John Lee Dumas: In individual who is providing the best solution to a real problem that is the best entrepreneur, the ones that are successful now today and in the future.


John Lee Dumas: are providing the number one solution to a real problem in they have the following, which is a quote, that I love.


John Lee Dumas: They have created a barrier so high that there’s low competition they have built a moat around their business that is not easily.


John Lee Dumas: replicated in fact it is incredibly difficult to replicates great example entrepreneurs on fire.


John Lee Dumas: My barrier was so high, if you weren’t doing a seven day a week show you weren’t competing with me, because that was my competition.


John Lee Dumas: But nobody could get up to that barrier, because it was too much work, so I had no competition my barriers are so high, I didn’t have low competition, I had no competition, I had built a moat around my business and I won as a result.


David Horsager: I think of our work at the beginning, even you know 20 some years ago, I had to argue.


David Horsager: That how trust affected the bottom line because people thought was a soft idea where we’re taking an interest now forces may trust the business where the year best place to work, but as the you know number one metric for best place to work.


David Horsager: But we’ve been talking about researching driving trust and that became you know the we solve the trust issues in the world and business and corrupt issues in East Africa that you know it’s our.


David Horsager: I don’t know of anybody who does more research and application of of building trust the leaders and organizations, the world I haven’t looked at it, the way you just.


David Horsager: revealed it, though, and thanks for that, I think there is there is this true just and thinking about this it’s not just it’s the.


David Horsager: it’s the you could have a unique channel and where you could have a unique content or message or solution right.


David Horsager: Absolutely so number one either okay well with that we’re about to get to the book, but before we do hey there’s a producer have a question today I do hey john so.


John Lee Dumas: what’s up bro.


David Horsager: I was wondering if since you talked with a lot of entrepreneurs.


David Horsager: what’s a common mistake that entrepreneurs make that you’ve seen people do that if they could avoid it, they could maybe get to where they’re hoping to go faster, more efficiently or be able to make a better impact.


John Lee Dumas: They don’t just wait too long to launch their product their service their idea their concept there, whatever to the world, they wait way too long that quote by Reid Hoffman could not be more true it’s not more true.


John Lee Dumas: If you waited to launch your product until it’s perfect you waited way too long, those words are so true and I see so many entrepreneurs cowering in fear.


John Lee Dumas: Behind perfectionism behind procrastination in they just want to live in that world of pre launch they want to live in that fake world of this might work this might not work.


John Lee Dumas: But this might work and that’s a really comfortable cozy place because it might work it really might.


John Lee Dumas: But man you’ve got to get it out to the real world you’ve got to have a trial by fire you’ve got to get real feedback from real people on your real products if I don’t if your actual.


John Lee Dumas: solution is a meaningful solution to a real problem that people will parts with their hard earned dollars for and if it’s not find out sooner than later, what needs to be tweaked adjusted pivoted.


John Lee Dumas: Or that it’s just not going to work and listen i’m right here in front of you saying I did that, for a month for 35 days I coward behind that fear in that wall of perfectionism and I paid for it, it was a huge huge mistake in my life.


David Horsager: that’s so true isn’t it we see it all the time.


John Lee Dumas: all the time.


David Horsager: You said something you know people something about I remember there’s something about being you know people have been lied to by experts, especially in the online business world, what do you mean by that.


John Lee Dumas: you’ve been lied to you been lied to David i’ve been lied to every single person who’s hearing our voice and sing our faces they’ve been lied to.


John Lee Dumas: Because there are people that are out there that are spreading the message that the path to success is tricky it’s complicated it’s hidden its secrets.


John Lee Dumas: Believe me, I will tell you right now, it is not an easy path to get you uncommon success.


John Lee Dumas: But it’s not secret it’s not hidden it’s not complicated in fact it’s the concepts in my book it’s a common path.


John Lee Dumas: To uncommon success, a very common path tried and true principles specifically 17 steps that we have all taken and by we I mean successful entrepreneurs.


John Lee Dumas: That we’ve taken to get to our version of uncommon success, but people they want you to think that they have the key.


John Lee Dumas: That they know the secret hidden path that they’ll reveal to you for 1900 and $97 and 97 cents we’ve all seen it we’ve all seen it if you scrolled instagram anytime in your life, you have seen that promise in this ally, it is a common path.


David Horsager: The book is the common path uncommon success we got to get into this and you know everybody’s gonna find out exactly where to find it.


David Horsager: In the show notes and we’re gonna find out let’s jump right here, where can we find out about it, and I want to get into some questions around that but where’s the best place because I know get bonuses and a whole lot more, I mean where we’re at.


John Lee Dumas: The whole nine yards brother, I mean we want to reward people who are action takers So if you head over to uncommon success book.com you’ll see an awesome video describing the whole book.


John Lee Dumas: you’ll see five amazing endorsements from Gary van der chuck seth godin Neil patel dorie Clark Eric and mandy you’ll see five amazing bonuses amazing bonuses just one of them, by the way, David.


John Lee Dumas: i’m shipping to the door of every single person that pre orders all three of my journals $150 worth of journal value the freedom journal, how to accomplish your number one goal in 100 days.


John Lee Dumas: The mastery journal mastering productivity discipline and focus and then the podcast journal, how to create and launch your podcast and 50 days.


John Lee Dumas: All three of those journals i’m shipping to your door at my expense for one single pre order if you’re in the USA.


John Lee Dumas: it’s on me if you’re outside the USA you’re getting emails the digital versions of all three of those journals that are beautiful film there’s four other amazing bonuses I won’t get into details now, you can find them out at uncommon success book.com so do not wait pre order.


David Horsager: There we go right now let’s get into it, you talk about this 17 step roadmap let’s you know everybody’s gonna want to buy the book everybody’s gonna do it, but let’s let’s get to the sauce you’ve even said it, the secret sauce is no longer a secret give us the sauce let’s go.


John Lee Dumas: Listen, this is that combination i’ve been mentioning of the 3000 interviews i’ve done i’ve learned from every single guest of mine i’ve learned i’ve studied.


John Lee Dumas: i’ve put down all the fundamentals I boil them down to the 17 steps i’ve put them chronological step one to step 17, this is a step by step revolutionary roadmap to financial freedom and fulfillment, it is clear.


John Lee Dumas: It is common, it is not easy, so if you’re looking for easy go somewhere else, but it is very doable following this process we’ve kind of flirted around with step one already i’ll just talk to a little bit more about it, identifying your big idea.


John Lee Dumas: If you are not having uncommon success right now very likely, you are not getting up every day and working on and being in living in your big idea you’re just not.


John Lee Dumas: you’re not in your zone of fire when you see David on stage that guy is in his zone of fire that’s what he’s meant to be doing in this world.


John Lee Dumas: And not everybody’s meant to be doing that or doing what I do, or whatever other people, you see you’re doing.


John Lee Dumas: you’ve defined your big idea not Dave is big idea or my big idea and launch a week hail imitation of what we’re doing you’re going to fail, obviously.


John Lee Dumas: But if you find your big idea and identify that and get into your zone of fire and live there.


John Lee Dumas: that’s step one and we teach you exactly how to do that exercise is templates step by step, I mean this is a book that’s going to put you to work, so if you don’t want to do the work.


John Lee Dumas: don’t buy this book don’t read this book your life, hopefully, is great how it is because that’s how it’s going to stay and that’s fine.


John Lee Dumas: But if you want to do the work if you want to really get to where this financial freedom and fulfillment is, which is after step 17.


John Lee Dumas: This is step one, this is the first step, and it is a process, it is very doable every chapter, by the way, David three sections so Chapter one section one.


John Lee Dumas: how to do it what it is the steps to process the exercises section to how I did it in the details, so you can get a real world example.


John Lee Dumas: And then I said of the 3000 people i’ve interviewed for Section three of the 3000 people that i’ve interviewed in my journey, so far, who best exemplifies this step and I brought in for this example step one how rod.


John Lee Dumas: Who has the miracle morning and how rod comes in, tell us how he identified his big idea how he applied it became successful and how we recommend you do the same, so you get another perspective as well.


John Lee Dumas: And I do that for all 17 chapters three sections in it is so unbelievably valuable and then you move on to step two and you’re ready.


David Horsager: We got to get a couple more steps in as a tease give me a jump around a little bit or take us on a on the journey, a little bit further.


John Lee Dumas: Sure, well, let me just go to step two and then we will jump around after that, because this is where so many people get it wrong they’re like okay i’ll have my big idea now let’s do this.


John Lee Dumas: hate to break it to you, your big idea, it probably is a great idea I really believe that it is.


John Lee Dumas: But other people have had great ideas to and they’ve had probably your your great idea your big idea.


John Lee Dumas: And they’re crushing it that’s your competition you can’t go in there, right now, because you’re not ready you’re just starting on your journey.


John Lee Dumas: So step two is discovering your niche within that big idea, the void that’s not being filled right now in that big idea.


John Lee Dumas: You can get into dominate start to get traction momentum and actual progress.


John Lee Dumas: And then maybe down the road you are going to branch out and get back out to this more broader niche of your overall big idea which you can’t start there, and so we teach you how to discover and uncover reveal your niche.


John Lee Dumas: And really get into that place, you need to be before you move on to step three Now I will skip ahead a little bit here.


John Lee Dumas: Man time every every chapter is about three to 5000 words three to 5000 so between 3005 thousand the whole book 71,000 words so very meaty big beefy book so again.


John Lee Dumas: If you don’t do the work do not get this book like don’t get it, but if you want to do the work this book has everything you need in the 17 steps and I sat down for step seven.


John Lee Dumas: I wrote and then I wrote and then I woke up the next day and then woke up the next week and I was like i’m still writing the same chapter and then I.


John Lee Dumas: I did a command command all and and I did a word count 13,500 words for this one chapter, it is a monster it’s five times longer than most of the other chapters and is a business book in and of itself.


John Lee Dumas: And it made me realize this is actually why my business with three virtual assistants, by the way.


John Lee Dumas: Has netted over $100,000 a month for 89 months in a row not eight months, nine months at nine months in a row we’ve netted as a business over $100,000 every month for 89 months in a row it’s because of this step which we’ve crushed, creating a content production plan.


John Lee Dumas: i’ll call David out real quick, the reason why David when he was traveling the world speaking everywhere didn’t also have a podcast that would have been growing another amazing.


John Lee Dumas: Part of his business and building his brand out because he didn’t have at that time and amazing content production plan in place for that podcast if he did he would have been able to get home.


John Lee Dumas: jess record four episodes and then take off again and there’s a weekly podcast i’m going to crush it or he would have had a second MIC on him, while he was speaking on stage.


John Lee Dumas: And he would have repurpose those amazing talks into a podcast and would have been zero extra work.


John Lee Dumas: He didn’t have the content production plan that you need to have in place that’s the reason why.


John Lee Dumas: i’ve been 3000 episodes in nine years and i’m on emails and social media, and I speak all around the world to, and I do this and courses and.


John Lee Dumas: For self published journals and now my first published book in three people, and I have a life, by the way, I actually really only work typically five or six actual days per month like they’re full days, believe me.


John Lee Dumas: But only really five days of actual hard make grinding work and then 2526 days of not so much is because of our content production plan that chapter will make your head spin off your neck, because it will show you what it takes.


John Lee Dumas: To do what it takes for financial freedom and fulfillment and it’s not rocket science, but it is work but it’s laid out for you, step by step by step.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: And there’s more.


John Lee Dumas: David I didn’t mean to call you all brother, but you know.


David Horsager: it’s true.


John Lee Dumas: it’s easy prey right there.


David Horsager: I was, and you know what you’re passionate about which there’s a whole lot of a whole lot of things around, we could say about that.


John Lee Dumas: we’re doing now.


David Horsager: And we’re we’re changing the world with trust, but love it, this is valuable for everybody, you know it’s such it’s valuable content, if you want to change the world if you want to share a message if you want to change the world if you.


John Lee Dumas: find that a little bit just, from my perspective, because, like.


John Lee Dumas: That was awesome but again I think sometimes people get intimidated when it’s like change the world impact the world for my experience and for me it’s.


John Lee Dumas: What is the piece of the world that you know that you can fix what is the one problem that’s out there, that you know that you can solve better than anybody else.


John Lee Dumas: Just start there like start there and see where it goes, maybe you always stay there, and that’s a comfortable awesome place but maybe like David said that crack something open for you, and now you are changing the world in ways you never thought.


David Horsager: Absolutely, so I think of that it’s kind of like you, you take this core unique.


David Horsager: Your uniqueness your best of and it’s interesting opportunities actually open to that like I didn’t think we’d be touching with our trust work, you know corruption issues around halfway around the world.


David Horsager: But i’m passionate about that now, but i’m passionate about the trust work and how that can change something and it doesn’t maybe i’m not changing everything but me and i’m passionate about where we’re using it so.


David Horsager: let’s you know the book is out or it’s the book is coming out you’re still absolutely passionate about that, what are you learning now what’s what what are you writing on thinking about learning now of course you’re learning every podcast you you host but what do you think about now.


John Lee Dumas: Well, first off I hope when you’re hearing this or seeing this that the book is not out yet, because if it is you’ve missed the five bonuses i’m sorry about that, but we no longer can offer those amazing bonuses that.


John Lee Dumas: I would literally be bankrupt, if I did, I mean it’s just insane what we’re doing for pre order so if it is still before March 23.


John Lee Dumas: now’s the time the bonuses will disappear march 23 this after March 23 Hello it’s $16 invest in yourself, I promise you are worth it go get the book it’s on believably fantastic promise you.


John Lee Dumas: What am I learning now I am learning that’s life is shorts but also that life is long, I love a Tony robbins quote I was actually.


John Lee Dumas: One of tony’s top five affiliates last year, so I got to go spend four days with him at his resort in the molly art in Fiji.


John Lee Dumas: Just myself Tony and nine other people, and it was unbelievable and something he said there really kind of impacted me is that you know.


John Lee Dumas: Most people they overestimate what they can do in one year they set way to bigger goals for one year, but they understand what they can do in 10 years.


John Lee Dumas: And I think that’s important to realize, is that you know you can do a lot in a year but, like let’s not get overwhelmed like let’s just take a one step at a time.


John Lee Dumas: But man in 10 years you can accomplish amazing thanks so go big they’re like stop the under-estimating of the decade, because life is short, but at the same time it’s long you can get a lot done in that time huh.


David Horsager: What a treat well it’s time for the quickfire questions.


David Horsager: quickfire question go so as we come toward the clothes so much more we get asked so much more we could talk about i’ve loved so much of this genuine and real.


David Horsager: overestimate what you can do in a year underestimate what you can do in 10 years life is short and long this whole idea around not being.


David Horsager: go from success to significance and be the change Gandhi and Einstein don’t become a person of success, become a person of value and a whole lot more you’ll see it in the show notes, here we go lightning round starts now.


David Horsager: what’s your favorite book or resource, right now, other than your own.


John Lee Dumas: Little lifestyle investor by justin donald’s.


David Horsager: one sentence about that book.


John Lee Dumas: Your money will work for you, if you’d let it.


David Horsager: This will also all be a trusted book show I excuse me trusted leader show.com you’ll find all the details.


David Horsager: best advice you’ve ever been given.


John Lee Dumas: try not to become a person of success, but rather a person of value worst advice I was ever given fake it till you make it terrible advice be genuine be open, honest transparent take people with you on your journey they want you to be real.


David Horsager: You know something you said a moment ago, made me think of the farm my dad would often say.


David Horsager: You know, on the farm you got to do the work if you said that you know the pile doesn’t shovel itself the hay bales don’t bail themselves the corn doesn’t the tassel itself or cultivated stuff you got to do the work so.


David Horsager: That just reminded me i’m another piece of.


John Lee Dumas: advice that.


David Horsager: You gave you got to do the work.


John Lee Dumas: Do the work.


David Horsager: Even if it’s just five days a month.


John Lee Dumas: And by the way, do things that don’t scale it’s kind of like go on top of that, like for this book launch.


John Lee Dumas: Man if I worked hard, I created 300 individual videos that you wouldn’t actually talked about before the interview started here, where I was personally asking.


John Lee Dumas: The top 300 influencers in my life for three really important things to make this launch a success, and it was.


John Lee Dumas: So much work just multiply 300 times four minutes because you have a DVD was four minutes.


John Lee Dumas: that’s a ton of time and that’s, just like the actual recording imagine, I had to download it uploaded into the email and send it as a whole thing.


John Lee Dumas: But I did things that don’t scale, and this is why my book, launch is going so well, one of them went to one of david’s friends in that guy sent it to him and said, this is how.


John Lee Dumas: You do a book launch right and now i’m here on David show, so I mean having this exponential effect because i’m doing things.


John Lee Dumas: As a multi millionaire with eight figures of net worth in the bank right now i’m still putting in this kind of work i’m still doing the work i’m still doing things that don’t scale because I love it be, I want to nc I know I have to if I want to be a success.


David Horsager: do things that don’t scale what’s a favorite I love it what’s what’s a favorite favorite APP or technology or gadget right now.


John Lee Dumas: schedule, once it is the calendar that I use to book everything it is been an absolute godsend for 10 years now, and also a lot of bonus one boomerang in gmail if you know how to use it it’s the best.


David Horsager: schedule one and boomerang.


David Horsager: All right, before the final question of the show where can they shout out your websites of other things you’ll find it on the show notes, but tell us where can we best find john Lee Dumas.


John Lee Dumas: uncommon success book calm and if you’re looking for another podcast to listen to, because the average podcast listener listens to seven podcast i’d love to be one of your seven entrepreneurs on fire.


David Horsager: Entrepreneurs on fire it’s fantastic here we go it’s the final question we are the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.


John Lee Dumas: Gary van der chuck is a virtual leader mine I watch his content they consume what he puts out there and it’s interesting because i’m not trying to build the business or life that he has whatsoever.


John Lee Dumas: But that’s not the advice he gets his advice which I love is very consistent, you need to do you and it’s given me a lot of confidence and strength over the years to craft my life which I now have.


David Horsager: Very good.


David Horsager: Well, you can find everything and more at trusted leader show.com you’ll see every all the ties to jail, the.


David Horsager: jail, the god Thank you thanks for sharing your wisdom your time your Community just thank you.


John Lee Dumas: Any thanks.


David Horsager: we’re grateful to have you on this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 1: Brandon Steiner on the Importance of Creating Value

In this episode, David sits down with Brandon Steiner, Founder of The Steiner Agency and Founder and CEO of CollectibleXchange, to discuss the importance of creating value for your customers, and why you must be a solutions-based business person.

Brandon’s Bio:
Brandon Steiner has been a salesman for over 50 years. From turning his paper route into a certifiable business, to changing the face of memorabilia, he’s spent almost his entire life perfecting the ideals of customer service. With an unparalleled understanding of the service industry, he has now set his sights on educating the next generation of exceptional salespeople. Brandon is the foremost authority on creating value in yourself as an employee, exceeding your customers expectations by figuring out “what else?,” and many other topics guaranteed to increase sales and initiative.

Brandon’s Links:
IG: @brandonsteiner
FB: Brandon Steiner
LinkedIn: Brandon Steiner
Twitter: @Brandonsteiner
Personal web site: https://brandonsteiner.com/
The CollectibleXchange website: https://collectiblexchange.com/

Key Quotes:
1. “Value is what you can do for someone that they can’t do for themselves.”
2. “You’ve got to be a solutions based business person.”
3. “Helping people is not a burden, its actually an opportunity that will lead you to shear joy.”
4. “If you want to fill yourself, forget yourself.”
5. “If not you, then who?”
6. “Nothing great happens unless your back’s against a wall.”
7. “Your first idea is not your best idea.”
8. “You’re never too old to be young.”
9. Don’t be S.O.S. Stuck On Stupid.”
10. “Turn up the volume on your communication skills.”
11. “Stay F.A.T. Faithful. Adjustable. Teachable.”
12. “If you feel like you have good people, think about having more faith in them as apposed to getting more fortune on them.”
13. “Reverse mentoring is key.”
14. “The first 90 seconds of your day is the most important 90 seconds.”
15. “What I want to make sure is that I do the most important things for the most important people.”
16. “M.V.P. List. Most Valuable Priorities.”
17. “Turn up the volume on your empathy as a leader.”
18. “You gotta have balls!”

Links Mentioned in the Episode:
“You Haven’t Hit Your Peak Yet!” by Harvey Mackay: https://amzn.to/371hR2K
“Swim with the Sharks Without Being Eaten Alive” by Harvey Mackay: https://amzn.to/3cYPaHN

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m David Horsager. I’m so thrilled to have you with me.


David Horsager: Especially because of our guest today he is a sports marketing legend. He has been the agent for everybody from Yogi Berra, or


David Horsager: Mariano Rivera right Eli Manning. I mean, he’s he’s done so many things he invented the well I’m going to save that for a little bit. What he invented. But let’s go Brandon, welcome to the show.


Brandon Steiner: Well, first, nice to be with you know we go way back. And I’ve learned so much from you Dave about trust and about relationships and also your drive is


Brandon Steiner: very contagious man your interest. So I love you and it’s nice spare nice to share a few minutes with you talk. I was like, talking with you. Always gonna get some nugget out of this so I’m looking forward to it.


David Horsager: You know, I actually put a few words down when I think of Brandon Steiner, I put a few words down, you know, entrepreneurial drive. By the way, don’t do this for everybody on the show, but this thing and who is Brandon Steiner, he’s an entrepreneurial driver.


David Horsager: But he’s also a generous giver and he’s values driven. I mean, I think I’ve even seen you over your


David Horsager: Time really drive. I mean, sales and business but also be led by values, I think, you know, the first time.


David Horsager: One of the first times I met you I guess we met but you picked me up, took me up to your place outside of, you know, New York, we played basketball. I’m like, I don’t have any stuff. Oh, don’t worry. I’ve got all this stuff.


David Horsager: I was staying overnight at your house. I mean, we talked about a generous giver to someone that you didn’t even know I talked about that.


David Horsager: But let’s jump into you. What, tell us a couple things you think we should know we don’t it, you know, most people know Brandon Steiner


David Horsager: I’ve sat with you right behind home plate. The Yankees games and you’ve been so generous even to my publisher and everything, I think, of all things, but let’s just let’s start with a couple things we should know about Brandon standard maybe we don’t know.


Brandon Steiner: Well, thank you. I mean, the reason I was looking forward to this conversation and why really engaged with a lot of the material is a lot of who I am is based on trust.


Brandon Steiner: You know, I would be nowhere if people didn’t know, especially in the collectible business.


Brandon Steiner: Most people know me for collectibles, not so much on the marketing, where every marketing players for 30 years with The Snyder agency helping companies grow by getting them athlete.


Brandon Steiner: to endorse them or partner with them or a vast so that businesses rolling. But again, that’s trust because


Brandon Steiner: You know, these players have a million people coming out and they can have anybody, but when you get the biggest names in sport for mom and I’ll leave Eli Manning to Jeter to Mariano


Brandon Steiner: All being able to work within you know quick little click in a pic and a dial.


Brandon Steiner: You know, that’s what I look at and I’m really most proud of is that a lot of these players, trust me to handle their brand and licensing.


Brandon Steiner: And particularly in the collectible business but there’s been a lot of forgeries. And a lot of bad things happening.


Brandon Steiner: When you think of Steiner, you think of me as being somebody as a trusted source to get you a really cool item.


Brandon Steiner: And I’m very grateful. I can’t express the importance of trust in a relationship because especially when you get up the ladder, assuming you’re climbing the ladder against the right building


Brandon Steiner: You must not mess up the trust game because you don’t get another Muhammad Ali, you don’t get another Derek Jeter


Brandon Steiner: under your belt with nothing.


David Horsager: I mean, you started out with nothing and I want to go back to that when you know bought Yankee Stadium. But before we do that,


David Horsager: How did you build trust you had nothing. How do you build trust with, you know, Michael Jordan or Muhammad Ali. I mean, how did you even get in and to even, you know, once before even becoming their agents. How’d you do it.


Brandon Steiner: I mean, you know, when you talk about trust. It’s not one thing. It’s a million little things, but the reality of it is


Brandon Steiner: Trust and relationship building kind of work side by side kind of parallel. And I think the most important thing is value.


Brandon Steiner: You know value is what you could do for someone that they can’t do for themselves. So, first thing you want to do to build trust is create value.


Brandon Steiner: In a relationship between two people and and the second most important thing I can’t stress this enough, is that you’ve got to be able to be a solution based business person, so you’re building


Brandon Steiner: You know, what can I do to help you. Regardless whether helps


Brandon Steiner: A sale. You’ve got to be a solution based business person, where you’re looking to help somebody because they’ve got a problem you’re trying to find somebody problems.


Brandon Steiner: In my case, I’ve tried to find what people are excited about and I try to help them drive it.


Brandon Steiner: To keep things when you’re playing the long game, which is a very key component to building trust and building relationships. You have to be willing to do things for people crave value, even though sometimes it doesn’t help yourself.


Brandon Steiner: And if you’re willing to do that, then you probably in good shape to be extraordinary. But also it’s a tremendous feeling. I always think like helping people.


Brandon Steiner: Helping people is not a burden. It’s actually an opportunity that will lead you to share joy. So you’ve got to take your business practices and really be


Brandon Steiner: Up for that, you know, to reach out to be a solution based business person to serve people always say, like, do you want to fill yourself forget yourself like


Brandon Steiner: Can you really want to reach out and help people I’m constantly looking for people


Brandon Steiner: That need help with something. And then if I can help them so great way of building trust and building a relationship. I dropped a few nuggets in there. But that’s kind of it in a nutshell, which is


Brandon Steiner: Create value do for something for someone that they can’t do for themselves be a solution based business person be somebody who wants to serve.


Brandon Steiner: Be somebody who wants to forget yourself and care about somebody else’s much you care about yourself, which is very difficult for young people, by the way, if you’re watching. I know it’s hard.


Brandon Steiner: But if you can go do that over the long haul, like I’ve been into the game of trying to help people and not expect anything back for years, when I had nothing


Brandon Steiner: But how do I take this. Oh, wow.


Brandon Steiner: Yeah yeah


Brandon Steiner: I don’t do the thank you letters and and the generosity that I get back for people that I hope 30 years ago 35 years ago, I didn’t even have anything


Brandon Steiner: It’s such a joy when you reach you get letters from people know you had an effect on them because at the end day really WHY YOU HERE. Dave to help people and Yelp and also to get better and Bill and become a bigger solution based person.


David Horsager: How did you do it, let’s just take someone I remember, I think there was a story I’d read about you, you know, you want to build this relationship with Michael Jordan or worth just take anybody


David Horsager: And you know you’ve got some of the best in the game and you don’t know them at all, you’re a young agent. You got nothing to give them to speak of.


David Horsager: How did you start building a relationship with these. Now it’s become you know sports Empire. In a way, but how did you


David Horsager: That building of trust, early on with people that like they can’t trust anybody. In many cases, somebody’s going to take something. How did you build trust and such a name, all the way up to, to the Yankees letting you to have that, you know,


David Horsager: Yankee Steiner brand. But, you know, how did you do that.


Brandon Steiner: Well, you know, my new company collectible exchange. What’s been the blessing is how many people have slid over now work with me on my new company.


Brandon Steiner: But I think what happens is, I mean, I asked him right that’s listening. Think about it. When you meet somebody really wealthy you meet somebody who has a big account or you meet a celebrity. The first thing you think of


Brandon Steiner: What can I get from that person is going to be unbelievable. The first thing I think of is, what can I do, what can I give. How can I help this person. I’m not thinking at all, one iota.


Brandon Steiner: Courses are multi millionaire celebrity, of course, is some big account that they wrote up. Oh, would be unbelievable.


Brandon Steiner: But there’s a million people that can offer that service, especially when you’re trying to sell somebody something that other people can provide the same service.


Brandon Steiner: How are you going to differentiate yourself is by thinking about what because everybody needs help, Dave. Everybody’s got problems.


David Horsager: So what’s a way. Give us something sticky, like, what, what did you give those early days, you want to meet


Brandon Steiner: You want to talk about humility.


Brandon Steiner: We just let’s go back to the early days when I was trying to get like Lawrence Taylor and Otis Sanderson Carl banks.


Brandon Steiner: You know, the giants and some of the Nixon Yankees, I would stand in the parking lot and I realized that they had all this fan mail back in the day when you write letters to players.


Brandon Steiner: And they feel guilty, the boxes of fan. Now, I said, No problem. I’ll go through it.


Brandon Steiner: I’ll do your fan mail organize it, the ones that are really serious letters or right back to send an autograph. I wasn’t in the autograph business. I was just trying to figure out, develop relationship Lawrence Taylor 20 boxes of fan mail deep


Brandon Steiner: He felt bad about just leaving it there. I went through it all with send stuff back to the people he signed some stuff. And all of a sudden I had reason to go contact them or by the way, is a serious letter, and I did this for probably about 10 or 15 athletes.


Brandon Steiner: Just to give you an example. I can’t tell you how many athletes that got started. I didn’t know if they’re going to be a big name or not.


Brandon Steiner: Hey, let me help you. I know the charity thing was a big deal to help them put a golf outing together. I helped them with their foundation getting some sponsors.


Brandon Steiner: And he was a grind to try to get people to buy tables even 30 years of that back in the late 90s. Nobody really knew that she was going to be what he was today.


Brandon Steiner: And it was ended up being more than that. But you if you try to get on board. What’s important to the other person more than you try to getting on board what you’re trying to do.


Brandon Steiner: That’s usually the the methodology and I know it sounds stupid. But I was opening up more fan mail my fingers bleeding.


David Horsager: Like you picked him up, you dropped him off. I mean, you just thought, what can we


David Horsager: Do it right


Brandon Steiner: Well, I was writing the checks right and the contracts, I would pick up the athletes I was relentless because back in those days even have the email. So you’d have to call these guys up


Brandon Steiner: So when I would talk to them, no it I would go pick them up. Yeah, and you know, two hours to drive there two hours back, you get to know a player.


Brandon Steiner: It was pretty good.


David Horsager: How did you grow up and what led to, you know, the multi multi million dollar deal that you did with Yankee Stadium, you grew up with nothing. Tell us the kind of that little quick


Brandon Steiner: How’d you grow when you, you probably hear of a lot of rags to riches stories. I mean, for me, I grew up, you know, really poor and Brooklyn.


Brandon Steiner: I think one of the most significant things even have to remind myself now. I think when you growing up.


Brandon Steiner: Poor or University, which I’m grateful now and I look back on it because I grew up with such diversity, no money, no food.


Brandon Steiner: Really started working when I was 10 years old, which is very rare. I was a very odd kid very entrepreneurial always figured it out right on my feet 10 years old and I have kids at 10 years old, getting them up and dressed in the morning was like a huge


Brandon Steiner: Herat so


Brandon Steiner: I think for me, you know, one of the things I have to remind myself is, I’m not playing anymore. And I think that one of the advantages, where people that do grow up with diversity.


Brandon Steiner: And do grow up somewhat poor is they do have incredibly humble and nimble approach to business, the appreciation of


Brandon Steiner: $1 so you know for me, one of my big advantages comes from that diversity of not having a lot is my appreciation for what I have


Brandon Steiner: on a continual basis because you can never have more unless you’re grateful for what you have and where you’ve been, you have to find that gratitude somewhere, somehow.


Brandon Steiner: And sometimes it’s difficult, because some of those tracks that you go down when you’re younger like me was tough, you know, when you go to bed hungry. You’re a roach infested apartment.


Brandon Steiner: But you know, I got going. And I always said to myself, I don’t want anything handed to me. I wasn’t interested in that.


Brandon Steiner: That was a huge part I didn’t feel like anybody owed me anything. I never felt that way, it was really important


Brandon Steiner: mindset that didn’t want anything, hand it and it’s like I’ve been cheated. I just felt like I had the ability at a young age to go out and go get what I needed. So I didn’t have to live like that anymore. I wasn’t sure I was going to do it, but


Brandon Steiner: You know, I followed my I found my mom.


Brandon Steiner: Which is my second book. You got to have balls. My mother’s favorite line.


Brandon Steiner: And my mother was always about you got to have balls being fearless. It’s about being relentless. It’s about. If not you, then who and I always say that to people like


Brandon Steiner: When you get into this icon. I know this person is out of my league or sometimes when you try to figure by asking a girl out she’s gorgeous like all man she’s, she’s too good for me. I’m like, if not us, then who


Brandon Steiner: And it was my mother’s, you know, big, big saying about being fearless is such an important aspect in building your career, even at a young age. And even when you get older, sometimes we talk ourselves out of our dreams all the time before they even get step onto the court.


David Horsager: What was your first sales job. What was your


Brandon Steiner: What was their job was the newspapers, you know, I


Brandon Steiner: You know, I kind of my mom might switch. I was tired of delivering fruit and vegetables. I was working the register stocking back in those days had these little vegetable stores in Brooklyn. And I wanted to work.


Brandon Steiner: Less after school because I want to play ball with my friends and I started delivering newspapers and I saw a sign in the window, Dave, that would change my life.


Brandon Steiner: It was a newspaper what route and it said whoever opens up the most accounts. We went to boxing candy bars and this was


Brandon Steiner: Going to be the beginning of my run it was like, you know, as a young kid hungry.


Brandon Steiner: When a box of candy bars. I’m knocking on doors. I’m going crazy because I want to open up the most accounts and zero, I go back to my mother. And I’m like, we got to move out of this neighborhood.


Brandon Steiner: You know, if you’re a salesperson out there. Sound familiar. Nobody wants to buy our product these leads think you know all that all that stuff. And my mother says, sit down. I’m going to tell you this one time at one time only.


Brandon Steiner: We’re not moving out of this neighborhood. You got to stop selling you got to start serving you got to start solving


Brandon Steiner: And you better to differentiate. So if you can’t expect to sell something that other people sell


Brandon Steiner: And expect people just to buy it. You got to differentiate yourself and you need to be a solution based business person.


Brandon Steiner: Find out problems that people have and try to solve them. And part of the solution will ultimately lead to selling more newspapers.


Brandon Steiner: I’m like I’m 12 years old and trying to get my arms around that and my mother was hammering me she was not giving me a shoulder to cry on


Brandon Steiner: So I go back out. I’m knocking on doors. I’m nothing


Brandon Steiner: I go to this older woman. She had to be willing or 70s I knock on doors today, but you get the paper, which is absolutely not. So why it’s the same prices me as the corner store says, Yeah, but then I got a tip. Yeah.


Brandon Steiner: I said, Man, if there’s torrential downpour snowstorm sweet a heatwave a woman’s touch yourself should not be outside if I bring your milk and bagels on Wednesday and Sunday.


Brandon Steiner: And by the way, if you need something else. I’ll bring would you get the paper to live with them so tiny so sweet. So I was concerned.


Brandon Steiner: Well, not only that when we get the newspaper and and


Brandon Steiner: She was the mayor to turn me on. Dave to the whole neighborhood I went from 29 dailies to $199 234 Sundays and once you box of candy bars.


Brandon Steiner: And I think how that story. I hope resonates anyone listening is that, first of all, are you listening to your customers. And are you a solution based salesperson or you just trying to make a sale because when you develop solutions for people that have a problem you build trust.


David Horsager: I


Brandon Steiner: It appears, you’re really putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and the other person knows


Brandon Steiner: That you see them. And once you do the hat.


Brandon Steiner: Yeah.


Brandon Steiner: And that’s we


David Horsager: Get results. Yeah.


Brandon Steiner: That’s the most valuable lesson I’ve ever learned in business because anytime. I’ve approached. When I approached the Yankees Jeter


Brandon Steiner: I was always trying to think of how can I help them. What is what style you can I provide them. What can I do that. Maybe no one else is doing for them that maybe would lean them towards wanting to work with me.


David Horsager: Well, you’re, you know, from from my friendships. I mean, you are a servant, you have been so generous and I could go on and on about stories.


David Horsager: Of generosity toward me toward others mutual friends of ours that we both know


David Horsager: But, you know, you’re also incredibly innovative and it seems to just come natural for you. It’s like, you know, from the everything bagel. What we’re going to come to in a second, but let’s first go to, how did this whole thing was selling dirt happen. I mean, really, what what happened.


Brandon Steiner: Well, first of all, you know, I don’t recommend for anybody if I’m a little bit. I got issues. So sometimes my thinking doesn’t you know necessarily


Brandon Steiner: You know, sometimes I’m not crossing it at the, you know, I’m not crossing that the light


Brandon Steiner: Times. So there’s a lot of things that are going on in his brain. And sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t. But, you know, the dirt is funny because


Brandon Steiner: It really came from my back being against the wall. Always say nothing great happens. Let your backs against the wall.


Brandon Steiner: So, you know, how do you put your back against the wall. More often to create this kind of pressure.


Brandon Steiner: I always tell people, like, oh, feeling press to my good. You should feel press only time anything goods ever going to happen is when you got pressure on you.


Brandon Steiner: Mean, think about it, if you, you know, walking down Main Street walking down the beach.


Brandon Steiner: Everything’s lovey dovey nothing great happens only think great things happens when you put this immense pressure on yourself and what built for it, just like we’re built to get through this virus, to be honest with you. So


Brandon Steiner: You know the dirt thing is you know 2006 seven, you know, the economy was terrible. THE RECESSION WITH THE REAL ESTATE problems and I was trying to find an item I thought we’re going out of business.


Brandon Steiner: I was just trying to find an item that can kind of pass a climb my customers with it won’t be that expensive.


Brandon Steiner: And kind of pushed me through that time and we started coming up with all these ideas with the dirt from the fields.


Brandon Steiner: And I’m thinking, dirt, dirt pan stir key chains dirt coasters.


Brandon Steiner: Their clocks everything dirt and we started going crazy. Now remember Yankee Stadium dirt mantle DiMaggio Ruth Jeter all the greats have walked on that dirt.


Brandon Steiner: So we may try it. That was a very special product that people were getting a piece of


Brandon Steiner: But what’s crazy is and we were selling a lot of dirt. You know, a lot of pins. A lot of coaches, a lot of photos we spray adhesive on there, the dirt will be on there.


Brandon Steiner: But it always comes down to gratitude some writing a letter to Brian Cashman is the general manager. The Yankees and I’m thanking you for the help


David Horsager: And I’ve been in the office with you with him.


Brandon Steiner: Great love Brian, my favorite, favorite business people exist as a great job and


Brandon Steiner: I tell my graphic person to draw me a map of all the ballpark’s and I know we have dirt from every team in the major leagues. So I he draws a picture of all the ballpark’s of all the teams and then we put a capsule of dirt.


Brandon Steiner: Now the dirt now older is created equal and all these ballparks the viscosity, the color. Everything’s a little bit unique, believe it or not.


Brandon Steiner: So I’m sending this beautiful poster. We’re all the ballpark’s and then each capsule of third is a little different.


Brandon Steiner: I’m writing a letter to Brian. Brian, I want to thank you for coming to bat for me and helping me with all these players and situations over the last year and I designed this poster few now you have a little dirt on every team in your office.


Brandon Steiner: Now cute, but here I am so 29 to $39 gift items with dirt, which I just trying to get pacify get some action going in my company now I’m selling a $500 poster.


Brandon Steiner: And they’re going crazy people buying these dirt maps like crazy. And now I’m selling 500 our ballpark their maps and every team if Derek Jeter 3000 hits you got and how many it’s yeah nice ballpark. And then as a capsule have to match. And that’s what we got to the 50 million


David Horsager: So I always hopefully you saw


David Horsager: It failing in dirt.


Brandon Steiner: Yeah. And when I tell people what’s important is, first of all, your first idea is not your best idea.


Brandon Steiner: Here I was at a million different ideas of the tenants. The coast is the clocks, but I wasn’t my best idea. You got to keep thinking keep grinding.


Brandon Steiner: Second of all, you have to have faith that there is something bigger, even though you can’t see it, you’re not sure when it’s going to come, you have to have faith that


Brandon Steiner: This one thing you’re working on can end up being much bigger faith in your ability faith in your strategy and faith in God. And then the third most important thing is


Brandon Steiner: Gratitude.


Brandon Steiner: You don’t. I mean, you can’t ever implement more gratitude into your game. I mean, here I am just sending a thank you note, which I didn’t have to. I mean,


Brandon Steiner: But I would want to do something nice for Brian. As it turns out, one of my biggest items that we ever sold was the ballpark. Third, so


Brandon Steiner: You know, it’s amazing how things do work out. So if you if you’re out there and you’re working on something that’s worked for you in the past, maybe it’s not time to go do something else. Maybe it’s time to dig out a little deeper and figure out how you can make that item better


David Horsager: We didn’t get to cover all of it, but I gotta


David Horsager: You gotta have balls book the business playbook. We’re going to end them. And I asked you a few questions in a few minutes about living on purpose, but your books are great, but there’s a whole lot more story.


David Horsager: In the you got to have balls book of where you came from. And that journey and nuggets along the way. So we people got to think about that. But you got to tell us about the everything bagel, what, what’s the deal.


Brandon Steiner: Well, the everything bagel was funny because we talked about the delivery to the newspapers and sure enough I was delivering more bagels all of neighborhood. I mean, my shopping cart. I couldn’t even


Brandon Steiner: Deliver the papers on a route in a bike. Rather, I need a shopping cart and on Sundays, two of them.


Brandon Steiner: So every morning I would stop by this bagel factory to pick up all the bagels around the corner from my house, Father. One morning, the guy says, Brandon.


Brandon Steiner: Do you want to come and help me bake bagels. We started four in the morning work till 730 delivery or newspapers, you go to school. I said, Of course I could do that. I’m like delusional, but I did that for two months.


Brandon Steiner: That’s what these all the waking up at four in the morning going to bake bagels. I mean, I can’t believe I did this.


Brandon Steiner: So anyway, one day I was really ready to quit. Whatever. I mean, I couldn’t do it. I was falling asleep in school and he goes, my night Baker.


Brandon Steiner: Just quit. Would you like to get a raise, and work at night. So I started baking bagels at night. I quit my paper route. I’m working every night from six to nine.


Brandon Steiner: And I was in the morning baking thousands of bagels and night, who just taking a few dozen here a few dozen there.


Brandon Steiner: And I just got bored. So I started messing around with all these seasonings twist and onion flats and all kinds of different things. So just bored.


Brandon Steiner: And sure enough, I had all the seeds. One day I just threw them on top of it is by 1972 and that’s what we came up with the everything bagel, just out of pure boredom at night.


Brandon Steiner: And was was pretty cool. I mean, you know, listen, I love making all these concoctions of the bagels and the guy was very generous teach me how to make a bagel. So I kind of like have a good idea what a good bagels, like so. That’s how I came up with everything bagel.


David Horsager: You’re an idea generator. I mean, it’s unbelievable being around you and


Brandon Steiner: What’s funny is I go to my mother and I go, as a bacon. The biggest


Brandon Steiner: Idea. I’m going to get our truck of and I’m going to cut out the side and on the weekends are going to go up and down the street.


Brandon Steiner: And people come up and get bagels and I’ll have the different flavors of cream cheese locks everything my mother’s like that and I’ll put a big, big on the top of the van. I’ll be the bagel delivery guy and I was like one problem you’re 13 you can try.


Brandon Steiner: As I guess.


Brandon Steiner: I was always trying to


Brandon Steiner: Come on, Mom, you can come


David Horsager: With


Brandon Steiner: Well, next time. What else Dave is first to market. And I want to leave you on one quick note on this whole thing that what’s next. And what else times. What else is first to market.


Brandon Steiner: And the listening is nothing better. There’s no better feeling than when you go first to market on something and you beat everybody to an idea. This is just the greatest feeling. And that’s how my brain is always working is, you know, how do you slip to the white space.


David Horsager: I love it. You know, I read a quote recently actually just this week about how a lot of podcasts and I used to ask this, you know, what do you, what do you


David Horsager: What, what did you learn from that. What did you learn from that. And there’s a lot we can learn from history, but much better, what are you learning now. Right. And what do you learn, and now Brandon Steiner you built this amazing


David Horsager: Multi businesses. You’ve done some just amazing things. And, you know, what are you learning now.


Brandon Steiner: Well, first I’m learning that’s never too. You’re never too old to be up


Brandon Steiner: You know, I feel like I’m 19 again I’m reading my first book over again, which is all about rebranding and recreating. And you know what happens is you get older, you kind of get stuck.


Brandon Steiner: And you got to be careful. Don’t be SOS stuck on stupid. Don’t get stuck by to me. I feel like I’m a kid again, everything’s up for grabs. And I’m starting to dream big, trying to dream crazy again. I haven’t dropped like this a long time. And I think sometimes people


Brandon Steiner: They take themselves out of the game when they don’t have to, you know, you decide when you want to in the game. And I think a lot of it is mental. That’s one of the most important things I’ve learned


Brandon Steiner: In the last couple years is to be yourself and enjoy being yourself. And if you got himself into a little bit of a rut or some kind of route that kind of has you stuck somewhere.


Brandon Steiner: It’s only up to you to get out of that rut and route and sometimes the good Lord will give you the science take them.


David Horsager: How do you, how do you, you know, speak to this because so I remember. So here I’m a young, I’m a young guy. I had no business being part of this leadership group. This is over a decade ago.


David Horsager: You know, and, and you pick me up. And I remember you know it’s


David Horsager: I’m in New York. I meet with all these publishers ended up getting, you know, miraculously, one of the biggest deals of a non celebrity that year from the biggest publisher, my genre that years a miracle thing.


David Horsager: But you, you know, we had met at something and I said I’d be in town. You said I’ll pick you up, you’re outside you’re, you know, I


David Horsager: Right there, whatever avenue that was picked me up in front of


David Horsager: That that publisher, we go up to your house and we have something to eat. And then we put you you’ve got your own basketball gym and you got all these young guys come over and when I remember is


David Horsager: You shot the lights out of everybody there. And that was way younger than you, and secondly when I remember first


David Horsager: First, you said, all right, we got to warm up and we jumped on the bike and we warm up together and you do all this warm up first. And, you know, but I mean, look, everyone has half your size. But you said that you got to start with a warm up, and I think I was just thinking about how


David Horsager: You you keep doing the little things. Are there other little things that you feel like, whether it’s health. I mean, you’ve been married a long time to the same woman.


David Horsager: And you’ve led and you’ve got a kind of in a high stress industry. You’ve, you’ve kept family and your kids. I know are doing well. It’s been so fun to see that but


David Horsager: I think of, Wow, this guy’s into doing the little things he gets on the bike. First he does this, first he makes that call. Firstly, thanks. First, but tell us a little bit about the Live Link both, you know, whatever part of life.


Brandon Steiner: Well, I think. I mean, there’s so many little million little things. But I think first of all listen to your wife, you know, like you can’t listen to your wife and off. If you’re lucky enough to get married and have a spouse, like in my, you know,


Brandon Steiner: You know, listening, you know, may take any advice, especially in my case it’s difficult because my wife is like


Brandon Steiner: I mean 99.9% right i mean i throw a parade every like one out of 100 when I’m right. But I think that’s a really key. You know, I think that people underestimate.


Brandon Steiner: How they’re doing at home and how their home is set up how much, what effect it has, you know, outside WHEN YOU GET INSIDE.


Brandon Steiner: And I think for me, I never realized how important having a a home that set up right with a loving wife and and loving kids how important that is to your environment at work.


Brandon Steiner: And when things are not right at home, it’s tough for them to be right at work. So, you know, the to work hand in hand.


Brandon Steiner: I think for me, those are little things I have learned to eat a lot better.


Brandon Steiner: Tell you, one of the most important things I learned even in our mastermind that we’re together is how important sleep is and respecting rest.


Brandon Steiner: And respecting sleep and making sure that you know between you’re cranky. You make bad decisions.


Brandon Steiner: So that, that’s like a stupid little thing when you’re under high pressure and you’re in a job, they have to make a lot of decisions, one of these, you don’t want to do is make those decisions when you’re tired.


Brandon Steiner: And I see people do it all the time. Well, you know, always in a bad mood or. He’s like, I don’t want to be the kind of boss. Listen, if I’m cranky. It’s I may be cranky for a whole year.


Brandon Steiner: There’s a reason not because I’m a little tired or this or that I have good reason to be Frankie and I am I communicating it


Brandon Steiner: So I think overall, though with David so important. Back to trust is you got to be an over communicated with these days because no not all communication is not equal.


Brandon Steiner: So you got to be attacked. You’ve got to be able to get on social, you got to be able to put stuff on Facebook. You got to still be able to pick up the phone.


Brandon Steiner: If I took it through my office I still got to draw 250 greeting cards. You know, I’m still dropping personal greeting cards if


Brandon Steiner: Not all communication is equal and that’s what I would say to anyone listening is that turn up the volume on your communication skills. If you want to have trust.


Brandon Steiner: And you want to have more serious relationships, turn the volume up and your communication skills, whether the people work for you. You work for them. Assume nothing


David Horsager: How do you keep grounded with team like you got you got a great home team amazing wife. It’s really a partner in it, but


David Horsager: You know, outside of that. How do you stay, not just grounded but fresh and accountable. I mean, you’ve been top dog running the show leading things make decisions fast.


David Horsager: But how do you, how do you cultivate a team because you’ve you’ve built some big teams big companies with big teams, I’ve come out and spoken to your, your team. It’s some of the different ones. But how do you create the team.


Brandon Steiner: I think for me it’s you know about staying fat and fat is faithful adjustable teachable.


Brandon Steiner: And I think for me the teachable part is very important because I was thinking about it over the weekend I was a little frustrated with my team.


Brandon Steiner: There’s some things that even my new company I’m not happy with the way that going, but normally I would have said, you know, we’re doing this, we’re working in, I would have called an early meeting.


Brandon Steiner: But you know, it’s been tough, you know, the virus. And I think as a leader in this environment. You know, you first have to put empathy. First we’re normally I’d be like numbers. What are we doing what


Brandon Steiner: I put empathy first today and I didn’t really get all of my people to even though we’re lagging a little bit


Brandon Steiner: And I’ve learned to adjust. And I think, you know, the adjustable part and having faith in your people.


Brandon Steiner: You know, if you feel like you have good people, you know, think about having more faith in them as opposed to getting more fortunate on them because everything will all works out when they know you believe in that.


Brandon Steiner: And then for me it’s I’m in a completely new business. I’m just learning. I mean, my business is much more of a tech business. So what I’ve learned is, you know, to be teachable. I keep a lot of young kids around me.


Brandon Steiner: And I have a lot of young mentors and I mentor kids all the time and I try to mentor people I mentor, about five or six Division one college coaches loved it.


Brandon Steiner: But I have a bunch of kids that are 1617 mentoring me know and I’m getting further away from some of the day to day things that may bad want to know. So I think reverse mentoring is key. So again, be fat.


Brandon Steiner: You know, be faithful have more faith in people. And in the process, knowing that things going to work out. And that comes with a little bit of patience.


Brandon Steiner: Be adjustable so you did it this way for 10 years doesn’t mean you have to keep doing it.


Brandon Steiner: But just, you know, there’s different ways of managing people realize that in today’s world, you may have to manage people differently and adjust and then


Brandon Steiner: Be teachable. If you want people to be able to be to want them to learn be teachable person yourself as a boss I I listened, a lot more now than I ever have, because I know there’s a lot that I don’t know.


David Horsager: I’ve seen you even in the in our decade little over that friendship and just seeing, you know how someone can be driven, but also value center again this this last book I just I


David Horsager: The living on purpose. Three foundation foundational pillars. But you talk about faith and family and all these things. I remember you talking about this.


David Horsager: About how nowadays, you know, you’re still driven you still love building businesses, giving people jobs and and and being Solution Center, but you get up in the morning and you take a few seconds, you say, what is most important. Tell us about that.


Brandon Steiner: Well, I think, you know, and you’ve seen a lot now written and talked about you know what you do, but I do believe the first 90 seconds you day is


Brandon Steiner: The most important 90 seconds more important than the other 23 hours 58 minutes and 38 and 30 seconds. And make no mistake that when you get the first 90 seconds right


Brandon Steiner: More than likely you’re going to have a good day. And if you don’t, you’re probably going to have a mess update and and listen this morning, I’ll be honest with you, I got up.


Brandon Steiner: And I looked at my wife says what’s going on. So what’s going on so they can go back to bed. I’m not right and I went back to bed for another half an hour.


Brandon Steiner: Because I wasn’t feeling like I was going to go into my day with the right mindset. My first 90 seconds was wrong.


Brandon Steiner: So it’s okay to kind of retool yourself. But remember what happens at the beginning, usually is what’s going to happen throughout the day and I realized that I don’t want to. All of a sudden, get the four o’clock in the afternoon and realized I miss my kids test.


Brandon Steiner: I want to call my kid at 10 after two after you get home from school because they had a test. My wife had a mammogram and 11 I want to call it 1110


Brandon Steiner: And see how the mammogram. When I don’t want to. And what ends up happening is that there’s always people that can suck the life out of you.


Brandon Steiner: And I always that’s on my not to do list members get your to do list. I get to do list. And when I want to make sure that I do the most important things for the most important people.


Brandon Steiner: And I don’t want to forget that when I program, then it’s my mindset early in the morning, first thing


Brandon Steiner: More than, like, I’m not going to forget there’s an employee that’s having a problem, a family member that sick, even if it’s a quick text or a note.


Brandon Steiner: And I make sure there’s first 90 seconds I get my MVP list together days. And that’s my most valuable priorities and it’s just really, really important. It’s a simple to ask


Brandon Steiner: I think there’s a lot of people that have programming early in the morning to do different things. But what’s important is first thing in the morning. Just get those priorities straight.


David Horsager: I love it. Well, I think one way, we’re like minded is just having frameworks are things when you have a framework for decision maker framework for doing things to get the


David Horsager: The MVP that this that you know seeds. Some of these different acronyms that we have frameworks and it makes our life more consistent, we’re going to jump into a lightning round here, so be ready answer fast as we get head toward the finisher ready for Brandon


Brandon Steiner: Absolutely.


David Horsager: All right, here we go. I would love to talk to you all day. I’ve got so many questions.


David Horsager: As much as I know you. I’ve got 15 other stories will save the Mickey Mantle story for next time or something else.


Brandon Steiner: A good one to have you have your back back on, but


David Horsager: Um, what’s a book or resource that stood out to you lately.


Brandon Steiner: Oh, so many man. I mean, I love Harvey’s last book you know about you know that you know you’re not done you know there’s lat Harvey MacKay his last book.


Brandon Steiner: I’m in the middle of it now. And there’s also a Keller Williams book about the the millionaire resource that he wrote, which is


Brandon Steiner: Page by page is just gold. I mean, I like, believe it or not, I go back and still read Swimming with the sharks are Harvey MacKay too but I read Harvey’s last book I think it’s probably could be five books. That’s how much stuff is in there.


David Horsager: Yeah, full of stuff. Great stuff. Well, and we were introduced to each other because of Harvey and group that way. What’s something you can’t live without.


Brandon Steiner: Um, oh boy. Not much as I as I know that as a fact.


Brandon Steiner: Exercise.


David Horsager: What do you


David Horsager: Do for exercise.


Brandon Steiner: What do you do, I do. I do a lot of same stuff play basketball. But, you know, for me, the exercise isn’t about necessarily to lose weight or gain weight.


Brandon Steiner: But it’s to gain health and a lot of is to gain mental health. I have a lot of ADHD issues. I’m sure you could probably pick up some of that even in this conversation, but


Brandon Steiner: It’s really important that I get that workout. First thing, and most mornings I get some kind of cardio in for no other reason other than my mental health.


David Horsager: You know, usually we asked what motivates you, and you could answer that, but I’d love to hear you. And this might take a little longer. So I went to lightning, but I gotta ask


David Horsager: How do you motivate others because you’ve motivated quite the teams to so maybe how do you get, how do you motivate yourself. How do you motivate others.


Brandon Steiner: I think, I think the most important thing is you feel people’s mind with training, rather than trouble. I think you can motivate others by challenging them.


Brandon Steiner: Is very, very important. You know, keeping keeping people challenge and keeping people motivated by


Brandon Steiner: Knowing that they can advance. I think you can only motivate people with two methodologies one you sell them in and motivate them about today.


Brandon Steiner: Is what can happen. It can be great today. This week, or here’s if we kill ourselves now a year from now, this is what we’re going to have


Brandon Steiner: And I think we’re a lot of leaders get lost with trust and with that sale about how to motivate people is they start getting in the in between stuff.


Brandon Steiner: And they start getting mundane into what they’re trying to push through. If you’re not selling today, then you’ve got to sell the future, you’re not selling either one of those most like your employees aren’t buying it.


Brandon Steiner: So I try to motivate people with the truth, and the truth is either working on today or working out for the future.


Brandon Steiner: In this way they have an expectation level. And I’m always trying to find things that that I could challenge them with because when people grow, they tend to get much more motivated most people’s unhappiness coastal being stale and bored.


David Horsager: I love it. That’s great. What this is a little left fielder for you. But my favorite food is ice cream. What’s your favorite. What’s your favorite flavor.


Brandon Steiner: There’s no question. I mean, I, my favorite foods ceremony gardens LMB pizza from Brooklyn, the best pizza on the planet. And that’s one of those foods. I have our time living without


David Horsager: There you go and you have some some ammonia ice cream after it.


Brandon Steiner: We try to, but these days is a little tough to both of them. But I’m a part of you can guy but yeah that’s


David Horsager: Good. That’s good. So yet any last piece of advice before I get to get where we can connect with you. And one last question. Any last advice you’d say, hey,


David Horsager: Everybody is trying to be trusted leaders. We are trying to live out our influence in a high trust way by being trustworthy what any last advice you’d say for everybody.


Brandon Steiner: Well, I read, I reiterate that, you know, our communication is not equal and living in a time when people are probably not themselves. They’re not their best.


Brandon Steiner: They have a little more time probably to do more and doing one on one conversations as opposed to large group zoom calls


Brandon Steiner: Maybe a lot more effective and may take more of your time. But, you know, starting off with empathy and checking in with people because meant their mental health.


Brandon Steiner: Because of what they’re going through, but it could be just being more home more parenting more or just having that some of the things that used to having at their at their beck and call


Brandon Steiner: Could be very troublesome that people. People are not great. When it comes to change even know when to six months, seven months of this


Brandon Steiner: So, you know, turn up the volume on your empathy as a leader.


Brandon Steiner: And most importantly, do as many one on one meetings. You can even if they’re 10 or 15 minutes to check in and then non business related because they go a long way with people knowing that you care. And it’s not just about the business.


David Horsager: You know, I was on a walk. Early on in a pandemic with a mentor of mine. He’s in the white house every week. Not that he’s behind any either side of what’s going on there, but a


David Horsager: Guy doesn’t want any credit for anything you know 20 at least years my senior but he said is, we’re on a walk. Early on the pandemic. He said, David, I want to tell you something small is beautiful. And it’s going to be even more beautiful, he said.


David Horsager: He believes you know pro sports are going to take a decade hit, not a one or two or three year hit as an example.


David Horsager: And big, big events are going to take a big hit. HE SAID, YOU, DAVE You speak all over the world. I think you’re going to make more of an impact over the next many years maybe your lifetime.


David Horsager: Meeting with small one on one small groups of leaders small is going to be the new beautiful not big. And I think that whole thing of one on one connection. We need to get back to this. Not this


David Horsager: Light surface big but this deep small connection that can really, you know, change the world. So


Brandon Steiner: I agree.


David Horsager: Yeah. So tell us a, you know, Where can we find more about you to these days.


Brandon Steiner: Well, as many of us went home. If you’re a collector. You want to sell your stuff where collectible exchange we help you sell and buy some of the coolest collectibles and


Brandon Steiner: That site is blowing up and growing have over 50,000 items on there.


Brandon Steiner: You can go to Brandon Steiner calm or I’m a big LinkedIn guy I’m over the 30,000 you to follow me and messaged me and i i try to respond to every one of those messages is something I do to help


Brandon Steiner: If you need some help with your collectibles. You need an athlete help grow your business. I’m your guy more than happy to help you. I’m really enjoying my business these days because I can


Brandon Steiner: Even though I have much smaller staff and I’ve had in years. It’s so much more fun being more hands on and doing more


Brandon Steiner: And have more interaction with customers. I’m actually enjoying that again. So I hope to hear from some of you out there that have an issue or something I could do to help you grow your business.


David Horsager: And I’ll tell you, just from personal experience, you know, you got sports people in your life where if you just, I remember you know you inspired me and i by someone or we get signed a ball from this person Marianna or assigned


David Horsager: Who holds thing or assigned wherever just like, Hey, thanks for doing this and and they just mean so much them and it


David Horsager: It reminds them. And I think one thing that it does that people don’t realize I they get that that all the inspiration that goes with sports and competition and winning and all that. What they don’t get is it brings them back to childhood.


David Horsager: It brings some memories. Memories with their mom their dad with their uncle with their with


David Horsager: What they loved as a kid, and it brings this this back and I know if you went into our office just you know 20 yards from me here from my studio, you’ll see


David Horsager: Several things from Brandon Steiner, and from the, the, the team out there. And the other thing I would say, by the way, is Brandon is an amazing speaker so you know


David Horsager: If you’re not bringing us in bringing Brandon right he’s


Brandon Steiner: Right behind you. You know I love you as a speaker, Dave, you do a great job and talk about probably one of the most important things


Brandon Steiner: And building relationships and building trust, which a lot of people are afraid to talk about that. So yeah, so I’m right behind you. Because relationships, everything


Brandon Steiner: Is whenever I get on the stage with you, man. Anytime is always, always a blessing.


David Horsager: It is and and I just would say, no matter what I’d say that in jest because there’s places where Brandon is the


David Horsager: The clear choice and and you should just I hope more people get to hear your voice, because I think now you’ve created all these stories and you’ve come to a


David Horsager: Real time. And I know you’re always generous giver. But you’ve really come to a time where you’re giving a ton back and you’re


David Horsager: You’re helping and I know you’re giving a big foundation that you’re part of and everything else so visit, Brandon. Brandon steiner.com


David Horsager: Us, you know, learn more about him read the books, and also that method of giving first you might find something at the the site there to give that builds a connection that actually just can lead to some amazing things. So


David Horsager: So last thing you know what it is. It’s called the trusted leader show so we end with this, who is a most trusted leader to you and why


Brandon Steiner: The most trusted leader to me probably was was lousy Jackson. He was at Maker from Philadelphia, who had a kid I when I started working in his kitchen. My sharpening knives. When I was a dishwasher.


Brandon Steiner: And one of the reasons why he always told me the truth. Even when I didn’t want to hear it, even if it wasn’t popular, even if it created static between us.


Brandon Steiner: And he was always thinking forward for me also thinking about what was best for me, not only at the moment but down the road. It was always a


Brandon Steiner: You know, a high level of diligence about how he thought I can grow to go and I think that, you know, such an important aspect of leadership. When I think about this guy Ozzy Jackson.


Brandon Steiner: We would work 90 or 100 hours a week. A week and 100 plus degree kitchen and one morning we were making Chinese food and, you know,


Brandon Steiner: We picked chickens for the chicken shall mean I, my job was to make the fried rice, you know, 500 kids that’s three hours to make the fried rice. We had worked all morning hundred degrees exhausted.


Brandon Steiner: We go back to a room at 130 for a two hour break. And we realized my friend comes in my room and wakes me up. It’s already 630


Brandon Steiner: When we miss dinner we run into the kitchen. They already served dinner. Dinner was over, and we’re going crazy.


Brandon Steiner: And we go over the chef. Like, why did you wake us listen to me was already made it was easy meal serve and before we let you sleep.


Brandon Steiner: We, we had to be removed from the kitchen. We were going crazy throwing stuff yelling at the other cooks for landing asleep.


Brandon Steiner: And when I realized the motivation and trust we hadn’t applied. We saw anybody else. Okay. Give us the night off know we wanted to be in that case, we wanted to serve that meal and we took pride in that. And it was amazing. When I think back in that


Brandon Steiner: Here I am having to have to physically be removed from the kitchen because we’re yelling, screaming and and really getting face to face with everybody about not waking us up to go serve the meal.


Brandon Steiner: And I think that’s where you want your employees. You want them said, asking for more time off, you want to ask for more time on. That’s when you know you’ve been trusted leader.


David Horsager: That’s that is true. That’s a trusted leader for sure. Well, you are a leader, I trust that’s there’s no doubt about that.


David Horsager: At trusted leader.com we are going to put show notes. We’re going to put all of Brandon’s websites and LinkedIn. We’re going to put some videos so you can see him speaking, he’s amazing on stage will put links to his books and I hope you


David Horsager: Reach out and learn more from


David Horsager: This amazing guy and someone I certainly trust so


David Horsager: He’s building trust, and thank you, Brandon, and we will see you next time.

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