Ep. 40: Jay Levy on The Holistic Approach To Financial Planning

In this episode, David sits down with Jay Levy, Author and Senior Vice President, CFP®, CRPC® at Measured Wealth Private Client Group, LLC, to discuss the holistic approach to financial planning.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Jay’s Bio:
Jay Levy has been in the financial services and banking industries for over 30 years. As a Certified Financial Planner, he continues to work with individuals, multi-generational families and businesses regarding investments, retirement, estate, tax, and financial planning services.

From 2017-2019, he has been voted the #1 Financial Planner in the “Best of The Seacoast” Annual survey by Seacoast Media Group for the past 3 years.

Jay has been a guest lecturer at various colleges including the University of New Hampshire and the F.W. Olin MBA School at Babson. He has also been involved in national politics serving as a Town Chair for Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign in 2008 and as the NH Financial Chair for Governor Tim Pawlenty’s presidential campaign in 2010.

He has been involved with numerous Boards over the years, and currently serves on the Wentworth Douglass Hospital Foundation Board as Past Chair.

Jay and his wife Kelly live in the lovely, quaint town of Stratham, NH and are proud parents of two sons Grant and Adam, each who reside near Boston, MA. Both, much to the delight of their parents, are gainfully employed and self-sufficient.

Jay’s Links:
Website: https://jaylevyplanning.net/
“Planning for Survival” by Jay Levy: https://amzn.to/3iwqK9A
FREE access to Jay’s weekly Measured Wealth Brief: Email Jay at jaylevyplanning@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaylevy2009/

Key Quotes:
1. “There’s always a plus to a negative.”
2. “So many people, their lives are basically defined by their work.”
3. “The markets are always inhaling and exhaling. There’s no end to anything, there’s always just change.”
4. “Don’t feel like you failed at it, its just part of the whole journey.”
5. “It’s never too late, but the earlier you can start, the better.”
6. “Be open, as far as accepting everybody’s voice to be involved in what’s going on.”
7. “Encompass everybody.”
8. “In the end, it’s always better to control your own destiny, to work for yourself.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Planning for Survival” by Jay Levy: https://amzn.to/3iwqK9A
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
“Being Mortal” by Atul Gawande: https://amzn.to/3xX7CIy
“Lifespan” by David A. Sinclair PhD and Matthew D. LaPlante: https://amzn.to/3zg9R9Z
“Dollars and Sense” by Dan Ariely and Jeff Kreisler: https://amzn.to/3zvPFkL

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and today’s episode is about something very, very important your money and your wealth.


David Horsager: i’m with an expert his book just became a national bestseller he is a he runs his practice through measured wealth and his brand new book is called planning for survival thanks for being with us Jay levy.


Jay Levy: David it’s a pleasure and it’s planning for survival, the great retirement conundrum.


David Horsager: I and i’ve read it from page to page guy coming to cover, so it is a it’s a conundrum so we’re going to talk about that, and he served on the boards of hospitals and he’s.


David Horsager: won some amazing awards as a financial professional so let’s dig in you tell it start off with you Jay what what what’s a couple things that not everybody knows about Jay lovey.


Jay Levy: i’m very ordinary Dave Sarah seriously, you know when I talked to people all the time, and my background and so on.


Jay Levy: i’ve led a very actual ordinary life I try to explain to people i’d spend probably 15 plus years in banking.


Jay Levy: and evolved from that I was a chief financial officer for the second largest privately owned retail and company in New England.


Jay Levy: And then went on, and at 45 years old sat around my wife said, you know, do you want to keep being a CFO because I can see you getting bored.


Jay Levy: Or you know, try to figure out what you want to be when you grow up in life, so I had I had opportunities, where I actually had a committee of people come together and.


Jay Levy: Put a sort of an interview committee for me to try to become the chief executive officer of the leading business organization in new Hampshire.


Jay Levy: called the business bhi and went through a six month process of interviewing they took about 11 months to make their decision.


Jay Levy: So after six months, I had a second, what do I want to be, if I if this doesn’t work out and ultimately got into the investment business went on, with Merrill Lynch.


Jay Levy: Back in 2004 and when I interviewed with those folks they were like Jay you know so many people, and you were going to kill this business.


Jay Levy: And I turned around said listen I, I have to learn my craft my contacts are going to mean absolutely nothing because they’re going to pat me on the head and say Jay.


Jay Levy: we’re happy for you, because suddenly we’re going to give me a penny to ever manage and you know I went through became licensed studied got my CFP.


Jay Levy: And then, of course, just says, you know you getting a practice Oh, and I think back then, you had to do in the first two years, like $15 million.


Jay Levy: Under management, and so I get through that but then you know 2008 happens in 2009 and during that time I was chairing on the side.


Jay Levy: The Portsmouth Chamber of Commerce, which is the largest Chamber in new Hampshire and I was the outgoing chair and we had this event.


Jay Levy: Basically, introducing the new officers news directors and I was giving an outgoing speech and I explained to folks.


Jay Levy: I got up in front of 400 people and said listen 2000 it’s been a strange year because during that year I explained that I was one of the chairs for the town’s for john McCain was running for President.


David Horsager: I was gonna say, not an ordinary life, I mean you’ve cheered you cheered for McCain you’ve cheered for different polenta when he was running for President you fight you’ve had some experience you got a great family lots of stuff.


Jay Levy: yeah no no there’s no question about that, but I always explained to my children I.


Jay Levy: You know my dad graduated from MIT and always should would showed me a straight a’s his report card that he kept for years.


Jay Levy: And I really never put and that’s sort of what led to the book, I never really put any time or focus on school I think probably I might have been a little bit like you, because I think in the past you’ve shared your experience.


Jay Levy: You know, with high school and trying to figure out what we want to be and I try to explain to people it wasn’t probably until I was around 30 years old.


Jay Levy: got married and I figured you know, even though I worked in banking and things like that I said and I have to sort of grow up and.


Jay Levy: kind of learn and i’ve never stopped it from this day, so you know I explained to people back at the event, you know, it was a tough year in 2008 because McCain last.


Jay Levy: we’re still going to go forward Merrill Lynch who I was with Oh well, the world just happened to collapse, when it came to.


Jay Levy: global finance and my company actually went under and, fortunately, plus side is I got purchased by Bank of America.


Jay Levy: And I explained to folks my 16 year old son grant just got his license so I said those three things I said but plus is the only had two accidents his first year and.


Jay Levy: It nobody was injured, so I said there’s always a plus to a negative and but that’s really what I try to explain to people and ever since I got into this business i’ve constantly and I think hopefully i’m not sure if you’ve read some of my weekly writings that I do.


David Horsager: Absolutely came out today.


Jay Levy: There you go, but I try I try to educate people simply.


Jay Levy: And most of my clients that idea with might be like a half million to like 5 million.


Jay Levy: So it’s it’s something that you know i’m not looking i’m not working with people that are 100 million or anything like that i’m really working with ordinary people who have concerns, just like anybody else, what about you know when is enough, can they retire things like that.


David Horsager: let’s jump into that.


David Horsager: let’s jump in real full you know full full full feet in here on this book planning for survival and this great conundrum we have what what.


David Horsager: First of all, what kind of made you write it, I mean I I it was really great I think every kid in America should read it, I think every family should read it, I think.


David Horsager: You know so much as much as money isn’t everything it is driving both missions and families and lives and it’s critical so tell me what what inspired you.


Jay Levy: Well, I think, growing up the way that I did my whole family was basic my side of my family was business.


Jay Levy: And I think it had an impact on my life, probably to the opposite where money, I always sort of like put in the background, because it was such a focus on my family it’s sort of impacted my upbringing.


Jay Levy: From a negative standpoint and yet, as I got into this business and you’re sitting around with people and you hear statistics and I think you know before this whole crisis started that we’re currently in.


Jay Levy: There was some statistics, whether was fidelity they’ve come out with a little bit different statistics, but basically you know 68% of people that are 65 and older had less than 1500 dollars to their name.


Jay Levy: And you let that sink in and you go, we have a crisis so years you know i’ve written over the years 4080 pages here and there, on different books and never, never finished it.


Jay Levy: And i’m not all on finance some of it was fiction things like that, but my wife, finally, said to me.


Jay Levy: Why don’t you finish the book that you’ve been playing around with them working and and I think, by the time I finished the manuscript at around 320 pages.


Jay Levy: And I said i’m doing it, and the way that I did, which I talked to Luna and penguin and a few other publishers they liked the concept that I had it wasn’t really about just.


Jay Levy: older age, it was about they liked the fact that I was starting from the beginning, where, if you are bringing up children.


Jay Levy: doing it from a chronological journey so that’s where I get into talking about kids, especially when they started.


Jay Levy: Whether with parents on getting their kids the volunteers five year olds and take part in their Community thanks i’m sure you’re probably doing in your life Dave with your children, but also, then I started taking over and talking directly to kids as they’re entering high.


Jay Levy: school.


Jay Levy: And then moving into college and things they should be looking at getting out of college getting into a relationship and things like that, and they were really attracted by the fact that I was taking doing this little journey.


Jay Levy: Their big thing was jd want people to read your book and i’m like no i’m writing it so nobody reads if they said, let us work with you.


Jay Levy: And I put together a team of folks that they said, let us work with you to cut it down.


Jay Levy: and take out 25 pages, when you start getting into social security and things that are going to get you know compounding interest and things that really are going to bore people with like the personal stores and it’s quick and.


David Horsager: I like I like that a lot I just got to say that.


David Horsager: I loved you brad family abroad if this journey you take people through and yet you give some great great financial examples along the way, and you wake people up.


David Horsager: let’s start backwards, I want to come back to youth even and families younger people but let’s start you know everybody’s wondering about retirement.


David Horsager: When can I retire, I mean what would you how could you what’s the quick answer you have on how am I gonna know when I can retire, how do I even have that, as it seems so ambiguous many people, avoid the topic right.


Jay Levy: sure.


David Horsager: How do we, how do we prepare for it.


David Horsager: Now we know when we’re there.


Jay Levy: there’s there’s no simple answer, except that there are really two things to look at one is finance.


Jay Levy: The financial aspect of it, the other, which I find is more important and I actually touch upon it in the book is especially since like, if I have clients that are 234 million dollars.


Jay Levy: That the holistic they I think that’s term that you probably have heard in the past, do they understand what’s going to happen to them when let’s say this, they decide to leave their.


Jay Levy: Nine to five job that they’ve had for 30 or 40 years because so many people their lives are basically defined by their work.


Jay Levy: What they do for a living, as opposed to some other aspects of their life and that when they leave it there for a lot of people that i’ve known and work with and seeing.


Jay Levy: there’s this massive void so on one hand, you can financially, be able to be in that position.


Jay Levy: But when you’re all of a sudden doing it, and you know you’re talking a year or two later with people and you’re asking somebody spouse how they’re doing and they’re saying you know depressed board.


Jay Levy: So, to answer your question it’s a two fold that’s what you know makes this somewhat a little bit complicated, and I think that’s probably why people tend to at least.


Jay Levy: Give me some kudos and light, because I do spend a lot of time talking about the holistic side, in addition to the financial.


Jay Levy: When you’re talking about financial, you have to bring in a number of factors such as how much did they say what they’re spending.


Jay Levy: Other things such as social security, and you know you have to do some analysis in this and the world’s a lot tougher it’s constantly changing.


Jay Levy: The markets are always inhaling and exhaling there’s no end to anything is always just change and where you are individually.


Jay Levy: along that sort of road makes a determination of how likely, you are going to be able to succeed financially to get through it and then the other things, we talked about come into play and it’s it’s complicated.


David Horsager: I like the jab both sides tell tell everybody where they can sign up for this I get this weekly your weekly brief measure wealth brief How do people get to see that every every week.


Jay Levy: or they can they can reach out to me and i’ll certainly it’s complimentary they can reach out to me at my Jay levy planning@gmail.com and i’ll put them on the list they’ll get they’ll actually get the the writing through my measured wealth.


Jay Levy: site so i’ll put i’ll put them on my mailing list and distribution list and i’ll get it free in favor one out, they just send me a note and lender deb will take them off the list.


David Horsager: So this is a great great option for people, then you get the up to date ideas around.


David Horsager: Money the markets and everything else and that’ll be in the show notes, so you can just go to trusted leader show notes COM or trusted leader show calm and every we’ll see exactly how to get signed up for that.


Jay Levy: yeah i’ll try to and I try to make it very, very brief so it’s no more than probably a two page five minute read.


Jay Levy: And it hopefully they pick up one or two things that they get to educate themselves about and I try not to make it to tech and chrome.


David Horsager: So let’s go back a little bit you have people let’s let’s actually jump back and forth let’s jump all the way to young people, what you know your book.


David Horsager: As being used to sounds like it might even be used a whole lot more in you know high school or for high school or college students, I know Isaiah who you and I.


David Horsager: Were together at the Berkshire hathaway event which was very fun, but read your book also or I hadn’t read your book but.


David Horsager: Tell me about what you hope for for for younger folks I think the great thing about this book is one it’s interesting and valuable from all the way from beginning to end, and I really enjoyed it but.


David Horsager: what’s your what’s your hope for reaching younger folks and what do you think I guess i’d get specific what’s, the most important thing you think those listening their kids probably should know about finances.


Jay Levy: I think I think the big key is this that nobody can expect a young child, you know.


Jay Levy: 14 1516 to understand the same thing we do as we’re allowing our aging journey in life so to try to get them to expect by, why should retirement be in it.


Jay Levy: it’s useless to do that, so the point of the book is to try to take them along with the short read of the book.


Jay Levy: to let them show where they are at a particular point in time, and what they should maybe be looking at as they get into one or two chapters ahead of time.


Jay Levy: And to at least start a spark where they sit there and go, you know something that makes some sense and I go back even before that Dave and I tried to.


Jay Levy: With my own children, I tried to educate people when I belong to the Portsmouth Rotary for like 13 years and for years I would volunteer at the thanksgiving.


Jay Levy: lunch that they would put on my wife and the kids would sometimes go to Dallas but I was working as a CFO of a company, so I always would stick around for black Friday.


Jay Levy: So by myself i’d go and go at some Rotary mates and they put on the Rotary event when my kids got back, I tried to explain to my wife and children and also neighbors.


Jay Levy: We work with our children and we sent we see them can’t throw toss a ball, you know number of hours a week, I said, if you spend a couple hours with them.


Jay Levy: And you’re in there either like filling bags or or serving people it starts to spark and has a parent to a child my philosophy was you do those things together.


Jay Levy: And you tell me that is an impactful not only for the child, but also for the parents.


Jay Levy: So people started doing it, and before you knew it you’d have literally 10s upon 10s of people each and every year, calling me up saying hey can we volunteer for your Rotary and of course I had way too many people.


Jay Levy: But that starts it and it starts a little spark and the hittites explained to people, even with their high school kids or junior high kids I said.


Jay Levy: get them involved with a volunteer they even can call up friends that might have law offices or medical practices.


Jay Levy: And they can empty wastebaskets and be around an environment or help out wherever they can so they get a taste of something.


Jay Levy: And if they do at a young age it’s not necessarily to try to educate them on what they made want to do.


Jay Levy: But it also gives them the opportunity to find out what they definitely don’t want to do in life and as they’re getting into high school that may help direct them on some of the studies that they choose to do.


Jay Levy: And that follows students once they’re getting out of high school into college and especially in college my son went to northeastern and even though I would have loved to him to have gone to like MIT.


Jay Levy: His point was northeastern had the best co op program he had seen in the country where they do five years.


Jay Levy: And you go through three six month call ups, if you want to choose that row did that he worked for three different pharmaceutical related companies, while he was doing chemical engineer.


Jay Levy: invaluable experience and so for somebody like your son Isaiah he may already.


Jay Levy: be involved in various Community situations it prepares them and give some seats, so they take root in the ground for you some gardening metaphors.


Jay Levy: And it gives them a stronger chance to at least move forward and not to necessarily be so concerned about failing, but to maybe sort of be.


Jay Levy: Not to have courage not to fail and take risk early on, when you can afford to actually try things, and if it doesn’t work out don’t feel like you failed at it you’re just part of the whole journey.


David Horsager: On the volunteering front, I love this I saw recently another study That just shows how.


David Horsager: One of the top ways to.


David Horsager: squelch depression is volunteering.


Jay Levy: Right lily.


Jay Levy: So absolutely.


David Horsager: I do, I really like how your book also does take in this holistic approach of life it’s like its success at life it’s not just financial is a part of that even giving back and generous, you know mom and dad.


David Horsager: My parents who just sold several hundred acres of the farmer having a ball in there now dad you know almost 92 here giving.


David Horsager: away and being a part of what he’s what he’s you know.


Jay Levy: and your your your father was one of those folks that I admire, because for somebody.


Jay Levy: Like him, who is well into his 80s was constantly out there, getting out there and still working and he has such a love for that when you would speak to him.


Jay Levy: You would sit there and go, who is he he’s my Superman, which is absolutely true.


Jay Levy: And you saw and listen nobody nobody sets and sets of time period that at 65 all of a sudden, you have to say, stop if you really want to stop and you still enjoying life, and you can do things that keep you busy.


Jay Levy: Not necessarily what you did in your career, but you stay busy volunteer you play enough golf, but you have a nice fulfilling life it’s great.


Jay Levy: But for so many people, especially recently with this pandemic and a number of large companies like liberty mutual live clients that were offered early retirement and a few of them took it and we just had dinner with one of the folks and you can tell at the age of 57.


Jay Levy: not exactly what he expected he’s only been retired for literally one month, so it does affect people, and you know somebody like your father I sit there and look at.


Jay Levy: You talk about mentors people like your father or somebody like my wife’s father and how they live their life my mother in law and things like that.


Jay Levy: And what they’ve gone through them what your upbringing was and how you folks work very hard and the success that has been passed on to your children.


Jay Levy: and your families kids and things like that it’s worth ethic that you can’t you can’t put it in a capsule, but you can try to explain and hopefully have kids read.


Jay Levy: Three or four hours of something gets some personal stories that may start a spark that maybe they haven’t been at least expose to.


David Horsager: yeah I love it if you’re gonna say one takeaway from the book for everybody, what would you what would you give for like key takeaway one or two key takeaways for everybody, be thinking about.


Jay Levy: That it’s never too late.


Jay Levy: But the earlier, you can start the better, but it’s never too late and what i’m saying by, that is, unfortunately, when when I do have people that come in to me and.


Jay Levy: I like I said there’s a certain amount of assets that i’ll take, but my doors, always been open to everyone and i’ve always said to people if you if somebody needs some assistance.


Jay Levy: i’m more than happy to spend an hour to and have them come in and they may have nothing saved Dave and i’ll sit down with them.


Jay Levy: And i’ll explain to them, or at least start asking them questions and my goal is that if somebody’s 60 years old and they’ve saved nothing.


Jay Levy: My goal is to be able to at least explain to them listen if you’re gainfully employed stay employed that’s the deal.


Jay Levy: Work on your spending start understanding what your social security might be, and at least getting these things lined up now if they’ve told me they turn social security on 62 and they just basically told their employer bye bye and they have $10,000 in the bank.


Jay Levy: Then, then you’re at a point where it is too late and that’s what I hope to accomplish with the book is least try to give get people to read it at an early age, but if somebody is in their 30s or 40s.


Jay Levy: And I think one of the chapters I talk about is people graduate college and let’s assume they’re not getting married but they’re going to live together.


Jay Levy: And I try to explain to him talk about these things look at geographically and I mentioned a lot of statistics and data, right now, as far as a year ago.


Jay Levy: Were expensive places to live jobs, what they were paying and things like that so at least to try to give people some insight to if you’re going to study something in college.


Jay Levy: If you’re passionate about it but it’s not going to pay much of anything at least understand that.


Jay Levy: As opposed to you, studying that you want to be a social worker great wonderful cause to do, but not understanding what you can make in it.


Jay Levy: And then they go through four or five years they incur a significant amount of debt and they come out and they’re like.


Jay Levy: we’re looking to change our career, because we found out we can’t make a living doing it, so all along the line of the book and again it’s a short read.


Jay Levy: But if it can click and get people to understand, wherever they are along the dotted line of that their their life map that they can actually try to.


Jay Levy: take out the LIFE preserver if they’re too far down the road and try to work on things, because the last thing we need, and we, we hear way too often Dave is that.


Jay Levy: The masses, the most people just don’t don’t have enough if they wanted to retire and that’s why I start out the book with homeless issues.


Jay Levy: And where they were they going in various cities and I tried to paint a picture of what could be.


Jay Levy: Because let’s face it every single person that we ever run across who’s homeless wasn’t one time, a young child with a family.


Jay Levy: And now they’re there unfortunately situations where people try to avoid people who are in these plates, and there was a way to maybe try to at least save some of them hmm.


David Horsager: let’s jump over to leadership, a little bit you’ve been a leader you’ve been a leader of course at.


David Horsager: Measured wealth private client group and you’ve been a leader in a whole lot of volunteer organizations.


David Horsager: you’ve been a finance chair for a couple presidential campaigns you’ve been on the board of organizations, one of them you’re the Chair of the wentworth Douglas hospital foundation board of directors.


David Horsager: What have you if you’re going to give some just to leaders as a whole, what What would you say top takeaway that you learned as a leader as maybe even if you go back to this board role.


Jay Levy: Well, I think what ultimately i’ve always tried to bring is to at least be open, as far as accepting everybody’s voice to be involved in what’s going on and not trying to control the dialogue or maybe where some strategies and planning is going to just encompass everybody and.


David Horsager: You know let’s get tactical, how do you do, that people say Oh, we want every voice to be heard, but they don’t listen how, how do you make it so it’s a safe place for every voice to actually be heard.


Jay Levy: You explain it to people that it is, and then you back it up by action, because what happens is, if you basically a moderator and when you’re explaining to people that, regardless of whether you personally agree with somebody position.


Jay Levy: they’re going to be allowed to at least have their voice heard and when it gets to be sometimes your.


Jay Levy: push comes to shove, and you’re getting down to the nitty gritty you remind people that regardless of what the decision is going to be made.


Jay Levy: everybody’s been listened to, and we have to come to some type of decision and it’s it’s, even though we don’t talk about politics here.


Jay Levy: That that’s part of the issue, where you know you don’t have enough bipartisanship and I think, with at least the groups that i’ve been involved with.


Jay Levy: I i’ve always been able to sort of get people together without me being you know the head honcho in it i’m just again like a moderator.


Jay Levy: And then you accomplish things always as a group, your whatever you’re doing whether it’s a Portsmouth Rotary or or a hospital board.


Jay Levy: Or if i’m on the hospital Board of Trustees and you’re talking about the operations of the hospital.


Jay Levy: You know where they’re just sort of like a cog in it and the ones that are taking the leadership, whether as vice chairs chairs.


Jay Levy: We need to be able to sort of rain in everybody where they think they can work together they get along they feel like their voices being heard and their respected, and if you do that good things usually happen and everybody leaves the table with at least a good taste in their mouth.


David Horsager: What do you think you know you’ve you’ve certainly been in business, but you’ve also brushed closely with plenty of politicians and politics as a whole what’s what’s your take on trust in politics, these days.


Jay Levy: it’s gone.


Jay Levy: I i’ve always said this and i’ve learned this from other mentors when I when I used to talk to people we’d sit around, and I think the first and foremost situation is that what’s lacking is you need to have.


Jay Levy: term limits and politics and the only reason I bring that update is when you go in and it’s not going to be a lifelong position but you’re you’re serving the people, regardless of what side.


Jay Levy: But there’s only a limited time that you’re going to be there you’re not beholding to people’s positions to a point where.


Jay Levy: you’re you’re inflexible, so if you’re going there, ultimately, whether it’s a Congressional issue or a US Senate and.


Jay Levy: You have one term maybe six years or two terms 12 years and that’s it what you’ll find is people will sit there as it as they getting towards the end.


Jay Levy: And they’re willing to again make their voices be heard, to work together much more likely than if they’re sitting there saying i’ve got to be whole beholding to one party.


Jay Levy: And that means if you’re on the opposite side, we will never get along and that’s and you see that it’s actually crazy to me that that’s not a situation, and as soon as they would make that case and change it.


Jay Levy: You would see a very different outcome not going to make anybody completely happy, but you’re going to find that it’s the dialogue is much more acceptable and it’s more congenial and people will feel better about that particular type of industry.


Jay Levy: As opposed to right now, where.


Jay Levy: it’s it’s terrible it really is.


David Horsager: I think we, I think we did a there was a study done the trust level in political institution right just before Watergate was 80% of Americans believed in the government to do it was right for all the best for all now I believe it’s less than seven or 6%.


David Horsager: That believe that I think there’s a lot of ways that we’ve come, you know we’re.


David Horsager: Institutional trust is down across the board, but especially politics, it seems like we’re incentivizing a lack of trust, I mean you, you know.


David Horsager: People aren’t meeting meeting together across the aisle you see what happened not very long ago where people are anybody that’s if you know you’re.


David Horsager: on either side you’re stripped of your committee assignments, if you try to work together, have an opinion or all kinds of things so there’s a lot of ways, where I feel like, but this is one of them, certainly term limits as an Ai is is a strong idea.


David Horsager: If I remember correct go ahead.


Jay Levy: Well, I was gonna say, and you can use this all across walks of life, I mean finance the whole thing, but one thing, because you and I went and saw Buffett you know how to add in omaha and.


Jay Levy: You know, again, I admire Buffett and everything but Warren was always somebody that talked about long term and what he sort of lived his life, and I remember watching a.


Jay Levy: Show may have been on PBS with gates and Buffett sitting in nebraska and they were they were basically on stage.


Jay Levy: And gates made some type of comment that you know something Warren still lives in a 2000 square foot ranch and he goes to his house and plays chess.


Jay Levy: And he’s sort of making like like the linoleum is still on his countertop and the point that i’m making is and we’ve seen what’s happened with you know Bill Gates getting divorced and Jeff bezos in those situations, but.


Jay Levy: You know Buffett I think always reminded people sort of like the grandfather, and he kind of has lived his life, where.


Jay Levy: You know, when he was talking about yeah one of his companies is dairy Queen and he’s talking to the 40,000 people during his annual shareholder he’s basically saying.


Jay Levy: I know it’s not a great profit maker, but I, like the ice cream I grew up with it and.


Jay Levy: that’s going to be part of the family, believes in the management it’s not a moneymaker.


Jay Levy: But when you hear those things it’s lacking, not only in politics, but anywhere you look in life so it’s rare that you find individuals like that that we can all look up to and say you know something pretty trustworthy From that standpoint it’s it’s a challenge.


David Horsager: principle.


Jay Levy: Right yeah absolutely.


Jay Levy: that’s why you’re that’s why your book is very important.


Jay Levy: And you know my belief is your book should be something that every high school reads just simply because even though, for a lot and they may sit there and.


Jay Levy: You know, raise their eyes and sit there and go trust you know the eight pillars.


Jay Levy: Having that at least something that each person reads you’re going to affect whether it’s one person or a million kids and they’ll least have that because they’re not exposed to it, otherwise necessarily in their family.


David Horsager: Right three big things in God we trust to get.


David Horsager: spiritual holistic, we got money that’s on money and we got the word trust you got a lot of it a big things bringing bringing those together so let’s go personal.


David Horsager: briefly here, you know we talked a lot, and you know in our work, about being a trusted leader often starts with leading yourself how do you.


David Horsager: You know you get the financial peace health wise holistic, please you got a great family, but what are some are there, certain routines that you have that keep you leading yourself well.


Jay Levy: Ah, I would say this that i’m and for those of you that really can’t see me and Dave Dave Dave has i’m not exactly the most vertically challenged and i’m vertically challenged i’m five foot three.


Jay Levy: And the way that both myself and my wife and I came from a family, and I think Dave you’ve talked about this in the past with.


Jay Levy: You know how dedicated you were weight was an issue with you and you wanted to lose it and you stopped drinking your calories and the whole thing.


Jay Levy: But I wake up every day my wife, does the same thing, she runs eight to 10 miles every single day, seven days a week, even if blizzard she’s known as the crazy lady and.


Jay Levy: southeast new Hampshire because she’s the only one that will run in blizzards eight to 10 miles a day.


Jay Levy: I run on the treadmill I I try and I do a while i’m watching squawk box and cnbc because it’s a very balanced news station.


Jay Levy: And I live I start off my day at six o’clock doing that, and then I progress I work with people I do my writings I deal with clients, you know, welcome to zoom we do reviews now that’s been.


Jay Levy: Sometimes a bad thing in the past that I thought was going to be hurtful now i’ve looked at in my clients to think oh Jay we don’t have to come in the office and see we can just do zoom.


Jay Levy: And so that’s been somewhat beneficial, but I have a process that I lead it each and every day that when I do writing on the weekends.


Jay Levy: I still spend time when my kids come up here and they’re both you know adults living in Boston and gainfully employed but I try to do that and that’s that’s why I start off the conversation saying i’m basically fairly ordinary.


Jay Levy: it’s not like i’m jetting to Sweden or anything like that.


Jay Levy: And you know i’m somebody that when people ask me so what what’s in your your plans and my feeling is again based on some of the family, things that I shared in the book.


Jay Levy: Until mentally or physically i’m i’m unable and life every day i’ll be doing this till the heart goes or something like that.


Jay Levy: I enjoy what I do a mentally and if i’m helping one person or 100 people and some folks are going to say some nice things that that they might like with Clarence what they did with less when they pass away, I consider it a life well actually live.


David Horsager: What are you learning right now, you know a lot of people ask what did you learn when but I like to know hey what are you learning actively, what do you what are you learning now about life finance marriage what what’s what’s up you’re learning right now.


Jay Levy: I read a great book by David for saga recently wonderful learn that and enjoyed the stories immensely, especially the beginning of the book with the gentleman out of minneapolis and then.


Jay Levy: In going to the ski resort, but I also because of my involvement with the hospitals, I read things and i’ve talked to and been fortunate enough to me like Dr and 12 blondie road being mortal.


Jay Levy: And i’d reached out to him and my father in law had cancer brain cancer and got him to where you know, we had him appearing at Portsmouth music hall and.


Jay Levy: You know i’m reading books called lifespan why we age and why we don’t have to certain things like so I the physical and the financial.


Jay Levy: I time together In addition I I periodically balloon launched something called golf scratch academy because i’m still trying to figure out by the time of seven years old, to have a 300 yard drive it’ll likely never happened but i’m foolish enough to believe that day.


Jay Levy: But I I constantly do that and then i’m like I said I continued my writing and I watched the markets.


Jay Levy: You know feverish Lee and wonder what what’s going to happen with interest rates in the Fed and how people are going to act from a behavioral standpoint but.


Jay Levy: My favorite book still I tell people this and I mentioned it in my book is dollars and cents by.


Jay Levy: Dan ariely wonderful book talks about the behavior of money and how people react to things whether they’re spending cash or paying for something by credit card.


Jay Levy: I would recommend that book and I hope that book gets into high schools also so constantly doing that, and you know when football season comes up i’ll be back on the patriots bandwagon.


David Horsager: There you go.


David Horsager: With Tom Brady i’ll try to figure it out.


David Horsager: Without Brady alright.


Jay Levy: Without Brady.


David Horsager: So so let’s let’s just touch on this we’re going to get coming toward the end here.


David Horsager: A couple of things so just for everybody to remember all these things dollars and cents, all of the.


David Horsager: The email for Jay levy or going to Jay levy site, if you want to grab his book, I would recommend it planning for survival just go to J levy planning.net.


David Horsager: And of course it just hit the Amazon bestseller lists and and all that and we’ll have that all for you just look at trusted leader show.com and find all the show notes what’s the best advice you’ve ever been given.


Jay Levy: Yesterday advice I was ever given was by my father, which I didn’t take originally but he he taught me said when when I was young, he said, you know because he was self employed.


Jay Levy: And don’t a lot of real estate, but he said Jay in the end, trust me on this it’s always better to control your own destiny to work for yourself.


Jay Levy: And I always found that a little strange, but as I got older in life, and you know, going back to when I was 45 and deciding to leave the CFO position and my wife sitting there saying you know what do you want to be when you grow up.


Jay Levy: And I said, well, I think I want to ultimately, and this was the second choice do this, what i’m doing for a living, but instead of working for somebody.


Jay Levy: Take a little less than life keep it my own practice my own clients best decisions i’ve ever made.


Jay Levy: You know people people when I go in the office and i’ll go one, two or three times a week for maybe four hours, I take out my coven dog that I bought my puppy.


Jay Levy: And they’re excited to see the dog, but they I remember the first joke they’re like oh you’re you’re unretiring now you’re coming back to the office, because everything i’ve been doing from home when covert hit and it’s been it’s been the best and it gives me freedom, which is very important.


David Horsager: What when you think of Jay levy what’s one thing you have left to do what’s something you still hope for maybe it’s a bucket list thing or a hope for you.


Jay Levy: i’m pretty much hitting it on all cylinders, I hope, because we had to cancel three different vacations they Italy and.


Jay Levy: The Caribbean and every I hope I can actually take my wife went to Antarctica back in November of 2019 she took my mother in law, I didn’t go on that.


Jay Levy: But so she’s had, I actually a vacation away from let’s say Minnesota over the last 18 months for we’ve canceled three of them.


Jay Levy: I just want, there is something about going back to i’m not going to like travel five times as much and make up for lost time.


Jay Levy: But it would be nice to again see parts of the world and go visit friends and we usually, when we go on vacations we go with different people and family, some of them, and it would be nice to do that just simple things.


David Horsager: i’ve got to ask you, before I get to our final question I gotta ask you just about what, what do you see ahead in the markets, what do you think about.


David Horsager: Interest rates going up, I mean this is a world renowned people will be listening to this, what do you think how should people plan and what’s your projection.


Jay Levy: i’m very concerned about it and i’ve always been concerned with people, even when we’re sitting there and talking about their portfolios and the returns they’ve been getting.


Jay Levy: And a lot of my clients will sit there and go, you know Jay you don’t seem to be happy about the fact that we’re sitting here and our portfolios are doing great and I sit there and go it’s it’s manipulation.


Jay Levy: it’s just the way it is you don’t have a choice because you can’t earn anything on your cash so you’re forced to go to assets that have risk, and as long as we try to keep you based on your age.


Jay Levy: In the right type of risk profile it’s one thing, but the way this is going with so much liquidity being put out there, and you know there’s only.


Jay Levy: assets they’re limited resources so that’s why we see housing twi we see stocks, the bond market for years did extremely well.


Jay Levy: And i’ve got great fear about the fixed income world as far as ultimately being a bubble, and if that POPs a lot of what we plan, especially with older individual.


Jay Levy: A lot of that tends to go to fixed income because that’s assumed to be a safer situation.


Jay Levy: But if ultimately the fixed index in the bond world becomes a bubble and POPs and people who are in their 60s and 70s, have 4050 60% of their assets and bonds.


Jay Levy: And that doesn’t bode well, so let me tell you it’s the people should at least be paying attention and that’s why I would urge everyone read the commentary I try to keep it brief and certainly there’s.


Jay Levy: A tremendous amount of information out there don’t don’t let it take over your life, where you become extremely fearful or anything like that pay attention because if you don’t.


Jay Levy: When surprises happened like it did in 2008 and we’re talking about Lehman Brothers going by buying Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch.


Jay Levy: It it certainly is is out there, that it can happen again, but it’s it’s certainly a strange time the recovery is going to be, I think, very, very hard and very hardcore.


Jay Levy: But again that’s it’s it’s not real it’s not real life because think the world was forced to close down.


Jay Levy: And now, with the money that’s being pumped in businesses will do well for short period of time, but then we’re going to get back to reality and what happens and with social media they.


Jay Levy: Everything, especially with money because behavioral so with social media starts talking about there’s a lot of smoke and is there a fire occurring, you can guess what can happen here and remember this, we lost 37% in literally 3030 days back in February to march 23 of.


Jay Levy: and never saw anything like that, during the depression and drop like that.


Jay Levy: So my fear is if all of a sudden, there is a drop and it becomes much longer drawn out and it doesn’t recover, because you don’t have all this quantity being put out there, or our tax structure changes.


Jay Levy: It could be a significant thing, and you know if you’re 30 years old, different story you got time to recover.


David Horsager: We got we have so many things now where i’m just it’s just getting interesting about all this stuff I could go a lot of different directions, with the all the AMC world of what’s going up what’s going down, but what a bitcoin.


Jay Levy: Well it’s something that I don’t and when I talked about it, two or three years ago my son actually brought her up to me, because he invested in so I was sitting down with our CFA.


Jay Levy: Who does our investments at the farm and Mike mike’s from China and Mike very bright guy and we’re sitting down we’re we’re reviewing or trying to understand blockchain.


Jay Levy: And the fact of the matter is I I don’t understand it and it’s one of those things that it’s one of those assets that have been created that they’re they’re they’re.


Jay Levy: they’re pushing up, and I think you know there’s some potential legitimacy, because if the dollar is the currency of the world.


Jay Levy: And the currency of the world that what backs, it is now trillions and trillions of dollars in depth.


Jay Levy: I don’t think that gives really too many people, a feeling a good feeling about our currency.


Jay Levy: So it’s something that’s digital that you know we don’t really understand and it’s supposedly limited to you know 21 million bitcoin and it has these wallets that can disappear if I if I put my clients in it.


Jay Levy: I would sit there and go shame on me because, if I have no faith in it doesn’t mean i’m right, but if I have no faith and all of a sudden, you know one day it’s up 50% the next day it’s down 25%.


Jay Levy: And that’s that’s out of my realm of expertise, where and it’s certainly don’t have clients that would actually.


Jay Levy: be okay with me doing that, with their money, so I sit there and say to folks listen, if you want to put two or 3% somewhere else.


Jay Levy: put it in there, but at this stage of LIFE I don’t put it in and I don’t believe my firm at all.


Jay Levy: we’re not we’re not looking at that, at this juncture, has even being able to something that we feel comfortable putting you know one or two or 3% maybe at some point if they come out with etfs or things like that which they started doing.


Jay Levy: It may change a little bit, but it’s it’s a strange situation but that’s that’s where the world may be going.


Great.


David Horsager: Alright, well, it is the trusted leader show go to trust leaders show calm to get all the show notes, you can find Jay levies book, you can find his site and how to email him and get on his great commentary financial commentary every week.


David Horsager: I want to thank you so much for being on but we got to ask one final question we do it to everybody it’s the trusted leader show who Jay is a leader that you trust and why.


Jay Levy: I actually would sit there and say that, as crazy, as it seems my wife.


Jay Levy: And the only reason I say, that is, I have absolute respect for she’s got a great work ethic she runs a 30 person dental practice she’s done it for three decades and.


Jay Levy: You know you have to be able to respect and feel very confident in people, especially when you see them in positions where they are leading people and during this last year during the pandemic.


Jay Levy: She was in there, and you know with that skeleton crew running basically a $5 million business, not a big business, by any means, but I was impressed by that.


David Horsager: yeah well she is an amazing woman and.


Jay Levy: Certainly, she has good taste in men too.


David Horsager: There we go good choices Jay. Thank you so much Jay Levy


David Horsager: That’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 39: Laurie Guest on How To Truly Connect With Customers And Employees

In this episode, David sits down with Laurie Guest, Entrepreneur, Keynote Speaker, and Author, to discuss how leaders at any level can truly connect with their customers as well as their employees.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Laurie’s Bio:
An entrepreneur, keynote speaker and author, Laurie Guest became known as a “go-to-resource” for customer service excellence during a successful career in the healthcare industry. In 1997, she channeled that expertise into Guest Enterprises, Inc., her own speaking and training company. For more than two decades, she has shared her practical point of view on customer service and staff development to audiences across the country, blending real-life examples and proven action steps for improvement.

Laurie is an award-winning columnist and the author of two books. With her latest, The 10¢ Decision: How Small Change Pays of Big, Laurie presents her most sought-after and impactful strategies to find and retain the best staff and highest-quality customers while delivering exceptional guest experiences. Laurie is a certified speaking professional, a designation held by less than 12% of speakers worldwide. She lives in northern Illinois where she is a wife, mother of two, lover of board games and below-average cook.

Laurie’s Links:
Website: https://laurieguest.com/
“The 10¢ Decision” by Laurie Guest: https://amzn.to/3B6CeJC
“Wrapped In Stillness” by Laurie Guest: https://amzn.to/3iaVrBb
Guest Encounters Online Learning Program: https://laurieguest.com/training/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurieguest/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/laurieguestspeaker
Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurieguest
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFxus-RN-kQSGnzbDFizpBA
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laurieguestspeaker/

Key Quotes:
1. “Transparency is so important, even when we have bad news.”
2. “Make sure that you’re present.”
3. “We need to really act like there’s a human on the backside of that camera.”
4. “If I want to have a true connection with you, as a friend or a business partner, I’m paying attention to you.”
5. “The systems we have in place, do they make sense for your end user?”
6. “Leaders need to really pay attention to the effort they put into manning their people.”
7. “I wish that leaders would put as much effort into their people as they do to some of their strategic planning.”
8. “We’re not always perfect but that shouldn’t stop you from trying.”
9. “How can we save the marriage?”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The 10¢ Decision” by Laurie Guest: https://amzn.to/3B6CeJC
“Deep Work” by Cal Newport: https://amzn.to/3itVhVN

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager, we have a special episode today with a friend, she just got inducted into the speaker hall of fame our association we get to.


David Horsager: humbly join each other there she’s a CSP she’s author of two books we’re going, especially talk about her newest book The 10.


David Horsager: cent decision how small change pays big I want to touch on that a few other things she is author keynote speaker entrepreneur she knows customer service she is a friend, welcome to the show lori guest.


Laurie Guest: I am so excited to be here how much fun is this.


David Horsager: This is so fun i’m so excited hey.


David Horsager: we’ve got a lot, we could say about you professionally you become a friend, and I can still remember when we sat by each other in fact we’re going to get to our first.


David Horsager: moment together before we do is there anything else you think Oh, this is something not very many people know about lori guests, or something they should know.


Laurie Guest: gosh I think my most interesting fun fact is, I am a monopoly tournament champion.


David Horsager: All right, Napoli I know you love board.


Laurie Guest: games, I do I love my board games and growing up on the farm.


Laurie Guest: by myself as as almost an only child, I have a brother is 12 years older I had an imaginary friend trish and she played all the board games with me, she was terrible Adam I want all the time.


Laurie Guest: So as an adult when I don’t win all the time i’ve had to learn how to adjust but that’s my favorite fun fact that has nothing to do with anything.


David Horsager: that’s fun well you know, on your website lori guests calm and we’ll put all this in the show notes everybody can find out about you and they’re going to want to.


David Horsager: But you have several ways you differentiate from others, and one of the key for is that you research.


David Horsager: Everybody you work with better you customize better than anybody, I know, and how I know this personally, if we go back from how we met you know we were at a significant.


David Horsager: kind of the highest level special event for our industry and we got there and it was the first time I went to this kind of thing, where I believe in that elevator together and.


David Horsager: You started saying all kinds of things about me that you know we end up getting it to be in the same kind of mastermind group.


David Horsager: I don’t think we knew we were going to be in the same mastermind group.


David Horsager: But you just started saying all kinds of things that I didn’t know about myself then later I got a special amazing gift from you about all these things that I, you know, like about my trust we’re gonna listen I tell me tell others about that experience from your perspective.


Laurie Guest: yeah so a big part of my business is secret shopping and companies hire us to pretend to be a patient of patron a client or a customer.


Laurie Guest: And at the special event we were going to.


Laurie Guest: It was really important to bring a million dollar idea, an idea that either has earned you a million, or could earn you a million now i’m going to be very transparent here day.


Laurie Guest: it’s a little daunting to show up with a group of your peers, who many are way more successful than I am and you’re like what I do, am I, bringing.


Laurie Guest: This unique right we talked about this, all the time, how can we be different and I thought well the most unique thing I do is secret shopping.


Laurie Guest: How, how can I bring this, and so I actually did know who the mastermind was in advance, because I reached out to the planner and I said, could you tell me the names of the people in my mastermind.


Laurie Guest: Because I have something special plan for them, so I had no idea who you were or the other, I think there was 10 of us in the Group, maybe something like that.


Laurie Guest: And so I researched every member of just our mastermind in advance, so I knew everything I needed to know about you, at least on a professional level.


Laurie Guest: And so, when it was my turn to speak I positioned myself first thing in the morning on the second day and here’s my strategy day.


Laurie Guest: Most people navigate back to the same chair, they were in the day before so by looking at where you guys sat on Friday night.


Laurie Guest: I already had the pattern of where you would likely sit the next day so by being in the first slot when you came back to the same chair, you had a little place cards sitting there and everybody had a unique little setup.


Laurie Guest: That was specific to them and that’s where you had kind of a balsa wood tower that.


David Horsager: I still have it yeah.


David Horsager: Eight pillars of trust on it and.


David Horsager: Everything just this.


David Horsager: yeah made for me right yeah.


Laurie Guest: And here’s what’s interesting about this, the number of people in that room who were strangers when I started was I knew one out of the 10.


Laurie Guest: And today, seven out of 10 in that room our friends at night, you can’t help but wonder if you don’t start building trust the moment you meet someone.


Laurie Guest: When you show that I cared enough to go learn about you now I have creeps people out and I creeped you out a little because we got in the elevator I went hey yeah you David right because I wasn’t even sure how to pronounce your last name at that point.


Laurie Guest: And you’re like I am and the look on your face was like should I know you and you remember that I introduced myself and we chit chatted for a while you had no idea we were going to end up in cheers next to each other, I knew it.


Laurie Guest: But you didn’t answer.


David Horsager: Directly next to each other.


Laurie Guest: We did we did, and then, when we sat down in the room you’re like whoa hey you’re the one I met in the elevator and I don’t know how many years ago, there was, I want to say 2010 something like that.


Laurie Guest: And the years have flown by and our friendship has grown since then, but my point even sharing the story is it started with the morsel of how can I be different.


Laurie Guest: than the other people in the room, and I think if we interviewed all of the other people who were in that room.


Laurie Guest: They would all remember that moment when they sat down in their chair and there was something that they hadn’t seen before, and why did this person knows so much about them so that’s the key.


David Horsager: I think there’s two things that happened there and we don’t we’re going to get to some other things, but I think something interesting is very seldom do people feel special or appreciated today I i’ve had people come back to me.


David Horsager: Two decades later after working for them this just happened recently, where some people say from our we send a beautiful package, when people hire us, especially for for certain things, and they they they get this feeling like.


David Horsager: I had someone actually a Bureau present moved back to speaking bureaus and she said, I have this beautiful plate on my table that you gave us in 2006.


David Horsager: And I just remember chin work with us and she’d been out of this, the business and industry, and she said, I just wanted to reconnect with you and have you hired for some things but thanking.


David Horsager: and also what you do better than anybody I know is making it about them not just this generalization but specific and you’re so intentional, so people feel cared about.


David Horsager: They feel special they feel unique and you know, sometimes you don’t want to overcomplicate things, and you know that’s a big deal just that.


Laurie Guest: It is a big deal, but I have to say it does take focus and energy and commitment, because if you don’t put that into it, it starts to come off as you i’m going to buy you a gift and send it to you.


Laurie Guest: And this is not about the value of the gift I just sent out 25 handwritten notes to the people in our association, who are getting their what we call the CSP the certified speaking professional designation.


Laurie Guest: And you know it’s just a greeting card, but i’ve had several of them reach back out to me and say oh my gosh Thank you it’s the first time i’ve seen my name with CSP behind it and in our industry, this is a big deal it’s kind of our version of bmt.


Laurie Guest: Right yes and and so that’s that’s the thing with paying attention.


David Horsager: Well, I, I want to jump to something, because some of your newest research has been around how three things buyers care about post pandemic.


David Horsager: And I want to hear what you’re finding.


Laurie Guest: yeah what we’re finding is is that people care about automation.


Laurie Guest: Human connection, which is interesting, you think those wouldn’t go together, but really what that means is I want it automated.


Laurie Guest: Until I run into a problem, and then I want a human, to help me that’s what that really means, and then the last one which I knew, you would care about people want transparency.


Laurie Guest: They want to know what’s really going on, and I, and I know you talked about this, this is already one of your things I know your work pretty well and I think transparency is so important, even when we have bad news.


Laurie Guest: That we have to tell our customers are things that are going to pinch, a little bit.


Laurie Guest: Get out there, get in front of it own it tell them about it, what are you going to do to fix it how’s it going to impact them but don’t try and hide it.


Laurie Guest: I always think of Famous people that get themselves in social trouble and they always come out denying and hiding.


Laurie Guest: And then it isn’t too much longer later before we found out, yes, it is true.


Laurie Guest: He did do that she did do that and it just moves complete respect or if they come out from the get go saying you know what I got to own this.


Laurie Guest: I messed up and here’s what the deal is I just think it would would go better so it’s, the answer is transparency automation and human connection, those are the big three that are research told us.


David Horsager: In the new economy, how would you do those three and you gave us a clue on transparency coming out and owning it, by the way, I think of in the pandemic I watched leaders that lost trust it should have gained it.


David Horsager: because their industry was going up.


David Horsager: And then watch leaders I watched a specific leader.


David Horsager: have to lay off 2000 people and gain trust in how he did it thankfully he’s almost hired everyone back again but it’s through humility and transparency and, and all this, but but let’s jump to those other two because that we briefed over them, but a automation.


David Horsager: And can be human connection.


David Horsager: Right tell us.


Laurie Guest: mm hmm so here’s a great one on the automation is that it used to be, when you went into places like i’m going to use can I use names i’m going to.


Laurie Guest: When you walk into a place like verizon.


Laurie Guest: It you to get your wireless cell phone situation straightened around you used to just have to go in get in the queue and wait.


Laurie Guest: And you wait and you wait and you wait till it’s your turn and usually they do a pretty good job, at least at mine.


Laurie Guest: and delivering great customer service, but now because of the pandemic they’ve switched it up and you now go on an automated system to schedule your time to be seen.


Laurie Guest: And when we got there, the last time is about two weeks ago we were the only people in the place.


Laurie Guest: So we were seeing on time, the focus was better they weren’t jumping from customer to customer so again, it was automated to start which I really appreciated.


Laurie Guest: And then I got the human connection when I got there, so I didn’t have to try to navigate through my problems by myself and go to the.


Laurie Guest: Frequently Asked question page on their website that’s a nightmare, and you know what I really hate is the chat box, I cannot stand when I need to ask a question, and it doesn’t fit what the robot understands.


Laurie Guest: I want to talk to a human and they just excelled at doing it, but they didn’t before the pandemic, it is the fact that they’ve been shoehorned into this forced into it and there’s many other industries that follow that example we’ve been forced to do it, but maybe we should keep it around.


David Horsager: what’s another way you know we’re in such a virtual world that certain parts of virtual are are not going to go away.


David Horsager: We have to increase connection virtually people are using it more absolutely face to face is coming back i’m traveling every week it’s been an.


David Horsager: amazing change four weeks ago and boom i’m on a plane quite a bit again, but still we’re we’re using zoom’s we’re going to use it more in the future, or whatever your flavor is for you, you know technology, but I give any tips, in the midst of on how do I build connection even virtually.


Laurie Guest: Yes, I think that one thing we can do is make sure that we’re present and so, although people listening to your podcast right now can’t see this, but you and I are on camera looking at each other.


Laurie Guest: We can see each other and that builds trust and not so much in the interview process.


Laurie Guest: But in a workplace situation so an example comes to mind, I have a client that i’m doing some work for right now, and every time we do a planning call.


Laurie Guest: They want to jump on zoom and the lady was hiring me is engaged she’s looking at me she’s she’s connecting but the other one is never paying attention.


Laurie Guest: she’s on her keyboard she’s she must be multitasking she’s doing something else.


Laurie Guest: And they both equally are responsible to me or me responsible to them, I guess, I should say in delivering the final product, and my point is my confidence in person, one.


Laurie Guest: Is higher my trust that she will get it and do what I need is higher, even though person to.


Laurie Guest: is actually the one pulling the strings and making it happen and she’s not failed me yet I have no reason to feel that way about person to except for her disconnect virtually is that kind of what you’re thinking.


David Horsager: Yes, absolutely I see the same the same thing.


yeah.


Laurie Guest: Maybe she would act that same way if I was meeting with them in person.


Laurie Guest: But I do think that, for people listening that are being forced to do their regular jobs virtually.


Laurie Guest: We need to really act like there’s a human on the back side of that camera if i’m having coffee with you i’m not looking over your.


Laurie Guest: shoulder for the next better person to talk to and i’m certainly not on my phone checking my text messages, while you’re talking to me if I want to have a true connection with you as a friend or business partner and paying attention to you.


Laurie Guest: And you alluded to that earlier attention is one of the key.


David Horsager: I think that’s interesting lori guest if I was going to put a few words for laurie guests, I would say authentic I would say intentional and I would say attentive I think that’s a you know, whatever that attention there, I would also say fun and funny.


Laurie Guest: splashes sarcasm.


David Horsager: it’s right tone sarcasm down for the interviews because they do get recorded and go out to strangers, but chasm is my favorite, what do you call that isn’t it a love language.


Laurie Guest: right if I teach you I love you if i’m not teasing you know we got a problem.


David Horsager: that’s good.


David Horsager: I love it so transparency automation human connection that’s what the research showing buyers want post pandemic let’s jump to your newest book 10 cent decision.


David Horsager: How small change pays off big and I, you know.


David Horsager: You know, a big quote, we have a sign out just outside of my studio here from something we put on about everything around here it’s the little things done consistently that make the biggest difference seems to align quite well but let’s talk about this 10 cent decision.


Laurie Guest: yeah so the way this came about the book title itself is a very quick interesting story so when my son Evan was about 21 day we were walking down the street, to go get a cup of coffee.


Laurie Guest: And we see a dime laying on the sidewalk and I see it, Evan sees it, and he steps over it, and i’m like dude did you not see that dime is like yeah I saw it.


Laurie Guest: And I said aren’t you going to pick it up it’s like no i’m like why and he said, and I quote Dave too much trouble not worth it.


Laurie Guest: Okay, to bend at the waist and pick up a dime is too much effort, and I was so intrigued by that, so I said tell me.


Laurie Guest: How big of currency would it need to be for it to be worth it to you, and he said at least a buck.


Laurie Guest: At least a buck and I thought that was so fascinating either, I have a very spoiled child or there’s a lot of people who would agree with him so after that I started interviewing my audiences by show of hands he’s not.


Laurie Guest: alone, a majority of people say that they would step over it, because it doesn’t have value and that’s when I started to realize our customer service ideas of the same way.


Laurie Guest: If all you do is smile at your clients that’s or your customers that’s great but it’s a single dime.


Laurie Guest: It doesn’t mean a lot, but when you start combining it with a bunch of other ideas it becomes a stack of dimes.


Laurie Guest: And you know how much a roll of quarters, is where excuse me a roll of dimes right you start stacking them, they have value and that’s where I come from it, this is that if we have low cost, no cost things we can do.


Laurie Guest: we’re stacking dimes and when we put them all together, it can make a really big impact so that’s how the book came to be and.


Laurie Guest: I just can’t get over how often right after people hear this they’ll be shocked how often they will find a dime on the sidewalk and the next week Dave you’re going to see a dime.


Laurie Guest: Laying somewhere and you go oh my gosh.


Laurie Guest: lori has appeared in front of me I promise you it’s going to happen watch for it.


David Horsager: So so let’s let’s dig a little deeper here what you know i’m I want to start picking up the dimes or stacking them what are some ways I can stack them.


David Horsager: In my customer service in in you know in any role that’s kind of these low cost, no cost ideas, how can I start to shift how i’m thinking and start stacking dimes.


Laurie Guest: yeah well the very first thing we need to do is look at systems, the systems we have in place do they make sense for your end user.


Laurie Guest: There are so many things that we do because it’s convenient for us, the business owner or convenient for our teams that are delivering the product or service.


Laurie Guest: When sometimes it is very inconvenient for the customer i’m going to give you a brief example, we have a boarding place that we use for our dog that I really like.


Laurie Guest: But they have a system that when you want to make a reservation you go online and you click on a forum and you have to fill the whole form out.


Laurie Guest: And it’s a lengthy form it’s three pages long, and it has everything about the dog, you can possibly imagine and here’s the part that can’t stand.


Laurie Guest: You have to do it every time you bought him for every individual stay.


Laurie Guest: So about a week ago, we have four big business trips coming up on back on planes, like you, are we have four big ones coming up, so I was scheduling for stays for him for different stays but one encounter on the website.


Laurie Guest: I had to fill out the form four times.


Laurie Guest: That does not make any sense for me to user, they need to look at their processes and they need to figure out how can they database this stuff so there’s a way to click a button that says i’m a i’m a repeat customer.


Laurie Guest: A frequent flyer and not have to fill it out again that makes sense right, I mean why wouldn’t we do that.


David Horsager: The big word today is how do I make it easy.


David Horsager: People are overwhelmed.


David Horsager: People are i’m hearing this I just saw this in a bit of research in the last week.


David Horsager: The big thing customers wants.


David Horsager: You know, actually and i’m graded over complicating I mean you think back 20 years ago I felt like I need to do the research, nobody else was doing trusted like I gotta prove this everybody’s gonna think it’s a soft skill.


David Horsager: So I over did this and I researched that we revalidated this assessment reba.


David Horsager: turns out people that are winning and training and development today, many of them no research know that, but they got a simple process just here’s a framework use this and, and I mean i’m grateful for the validation I want.


David Horsager: To see that me and know that it’s valid not some kind of motivational whatever.


David Horsager: yeah, but I do see myself here of of thinking more like we put three words together this year during the pandemic and we said here’s what we’re going to do we’re going to be simple.


David Horsager: we’re going to be usable and scalable so, in other words more people could use it not scalable to make more whatever, but how can we get so simple.


David Horsager: And that’s a big deal and yet it’s taking work because i’ve overcomplicated a few a few things on the way So how do we make all this trust works so simple someone can use it tomorrow, instead of you know, we got to have every consultant involved and all.


David Horsager: That and other it’s a small entrepreneurial business like my border.


Laurie Guest: place or if it’s a huge company that you’re dealing with it all comes down to the same thing process and the people.


Laurie Guest: How are the people that are working for us do they understand, are they getting the information out the way it should be.


Laurie Guest: And, and so that’s what some of the things are that I go in into in the book one thing that’s interesting and anybody who can see this on camera it’s very interesting the book has a very different design to it.


Laurie Guest: The front side is for team, if you read it from the front cover to the middle.


Laurie Guest: it’s all about what a team Member can do if you don’t own the company you just punch the clock or your salary there, what is it that you can do, and then, if you flip the book over.


Laurie Guest: you read it from the back cover to the middle if you’re the leader, the decision maker, the owner somebody who has say so, so the ideas are different from each side, and then I started each chapter, I have been an entrepreneur, since I was five years old.


Laurie Guest: And so I started each chapter with one of my very short entrepreneurial stories and what I learned from it.


Laurie Guest: And they go all the way back Dave you’ll appreciate this my first job was once a year, I got to go with dad was a truck full of green.


Laurie Guest: And dump it at the grain elevator and my job, my only job was to take a hold of the stick and pull it backwards, so that the bed of the truck he hear it in your ears right.


Laurie Guest: Now.


Laurie Guest: You can smell it and those of us who are farm kids you guys are smiling because you can hear the grain, you can smell it right now.


Laurie Guest: But then, just as far.


Laurie Guest: As the dust and and the chief and everything oh my God I get choked up just thinking about it anyway, my favorite part was when we pulled up to the little window, they would cut a check with my name on it.


Laurie Guest: And my dad would give me that one check and we would go straight to the bank.


Laurie Guest: And I did that, from that age I didn’t get any of it and went straight to the bank and eventually bought my first car when I turned 16.


Laurie Guest: But the cool part about it was I had a job and my job was to pull that thing back, well, I think that the guy at the green elevator and that’s one of the stories I tell he didn’t just go here’s your check.


Laurie Guest: Instead, he put a show around it well Laura you did a good day’s work today lori you know, sometimes it’d be a little present for me and they really made a big deal out of me, bringing in this load of grain now what’s interesting is that’s what my memory says.


Laurie Guest: Maybe it happened once but, in my mind it happened a lot of times you know, and so, those are the types of things that i’m talking about the little things you can do that makes the customer feel special that costs you absolutely nothing.


David Horsager: But love it wow little things, what about what can you give us a tip one more tip from the book to get us enticed hear that a leader can do you get the leadership side what’s one more small thing a leader does.


Laurie Guest: Oh interesting, I would like leaders to really pay attention to the effort they put into managing their people, in other words that attention thing.


Laurie Guest: If you are due to give an evaluation on October 1 and I work for you Dave and we have an October, one is out and October one comes and goes and you keep pushing it off because you’re so busy.


Laurie Guest: Then you tell me that i’m not very important the work i’m doing for you is not very important.


Laurie Guest: Where if on October 1 you’re like hey today’s the day lori we’re ready to go and you’re organized and you’ve got the feedback that puts me forward focus.


Laurie Guest: Now looking in the rearview mirror but looking forward to what I can do to help you keep building your company and being successful i’m going to be a loyal employee.


Laurie Guest: So I wish that leaders will put as much effort into their people as they do to some of their strategic planning and some of the other ways that I see leaders use their time get in the room where it happens and pay attention.


David Horsager: In the room in the room.


David Horsager: Yes, so let’s let’s go you you’ve led your own organization, you certainly been a voice of leadership to others.


David Horsager: let’s get personal what you know I find at least that people that lead and and do the kind of work we’re doing.


David Horsager: You know, getting on planes and all this kind of things that all these kind of things, at least those that do it in a healthy way.


David Horsager: they’re leading themselves in some way we tell you what trust the leadership you better lead yourself in perfectly as we do it we’re leading yourself sometimes it’s.


David Horsager: In in in in you know leadership or fitness or faith or whatever it is, but off state, we talked about being the same onstage and offstage right or off stage is on it.


David Horsager: What any habits that you have for just being healthy in in whatever way emotionally relational.


Laurie Guest: Sure, I think the favorite thing that I have found that works for me is I use drive time productively in a healthy way.


Laurie Guest: So I don’t use that as a time to listen to music or any of that kind of stuff I use it a couple different ways that’s where my connection calls happen so if people have constant hey can I pick your brain a question we’re often asked.


Laurie Guest: i’m happy to do it, the next time i’m on a drive is this day at this time call me during that window and so i’m using it productively and while still giving valuable attention to that color it’s not taking time out of my sails.


Laurie Guest: day or whatever I practice new material during drives I listened to podcasts like yours and that’s where I create my new ideas.


Laurie Guest: there’s nothing like an eight hour drive to say what do I want to do next, and so I think that’s a very healthy habit for me, as opposed to many of the other things we do when we’re driving cars.


David Horsager: drive time habits.


Laurie Guest: good habits that’s my two cents on that.


David Horsager: favorite, what do you have a favorite resource, these days, I mean presently than that to be your favorite of all time but is there a favorite resource you’re listening to on the drives me thanks for the shoutout are.


Laurie Guest: But.


You know.


David Horsager: A favorite resource, maybe it’s a you know, could be a book or a podcast or resource that you’re liking these days.


Laurie Guest: I actually don’t have a special one the most interesting book I just read that I really liked and maybe it’s been around a while I don’t know I just first heard of it is deep work by cal Newport I don’t know if that’s been around for a while.


Laurie Guest: But very interesting to me, and he looks at the psychology of getting focused with our time how we spend our time and I mean a couple specific changes.


Laurie Guest: As a result of that book, so I don’t have a particular guru that I listened to, I really jump around my next book might be a fiction one you know I do jump around quite a bit, but that’s the last business book that I went oh there’s This is something intriguing.


David Horsager: Going personal but you opened it up what’s one of the deep deeper takeaways that you thought oh you change something what’s something you change.


Laurie Guest: This is the biggest thing i’m only on month to so it’s early I changed my work day and every day has a theme to it so like Monday is client day getting client folders ready and all the stuff that goes into that.


Laurie Guest: Tuesday sales day wednesday’s writing day Thursday is recording my videos and everything like we’re doing today, this is a Thursday, so it fit perfectly into my schedule to do this today.


Laurie Guest: And then Friday is clean up my desk I try and live on a zero based inbox in my email.


Laurie Guest: meaning when I close out on Friday, there is nothing in my inbox it’s all been put, where it goes i’m not always perfect at it like you said earlier we’re not always perfect, but it doesn’t stop me from trying.


Laurie Guest: Where I used to just jump to whatever was most interesting or what was dinging at me the loudest.


Laurie Guest: Were with cal’s idea it’s a very focused approach and I do that for about four hours in the morning and then I have lunch and then whatever needs to be done in the afternoon and so that has worked really nice to me, and I hope to be able to continue that.


David Horsager: hmm interesting.


David Horsager: huh great one thing left and lori guests life what’s one legacy thing when what’s one thing left for you.


Laurie Guest: left for me to do well, it has nothing to do with our current careers, but it has always been my dream to eventually have a board game.


Laurie Guest: That would be in a box sitting on the shelf at toys R Us now the toys R Us part of the dream has obviously shifted a little bit.


Laurie Guest: But somewhere in this world there’s a toy store that is waiting for one of the games that I have made up, and that is sitting in my attic as we speak, and so that’s a dream.


David Horsager: You created some games.


Laurie Guest: Yes, I have.


David Horsager: How many.


Laurie Guest: Wait um there’s probably four or five that I think have merit there’s one that it’s a kids game and i’ve never seen anything quite like it, so I think it’s got real merit.


Laurie Guest: But to make it happen it’s a whole new learning curve i’ve got to figure out how does one go about making a prototype for a game and getting anybody to want to pay attention.


Laurie Guest: And you know, after years of being scrappy in this business and trying to get people to pay attention I don’t know if i’ve got it in me, but it is a dream, it is an aspiration keep.


David Horsager: Going don’t get up in the attic it’s time I want to play your game let’s play your game.


David Horsager: You know you just were inducted into the hall of fame your Council appears and excellence amazing I voted for you.


David Horsager: But I believe in you and I believe you bring some very.


David Horsager: Just you brought some unique value to the industry, you know that’s that’s a highlight for many we talked about this earlier what’s the real highlights in your life.


Laurie Guest: yeah it is, it is an honor to be voted in by your peers and I so greatly appreciate it and it’s good, it was a wonderful night we got dressed up and had a great time but.


Laurie Guest: The real impact the way I really feel about my career is when I can impact an individual or a group of people in a real way.


Laurie Guest: And my favorite experience was a few years back, I was at a conference that i’ve spoken at.


Laurie Guest: Every year for 18 years in a row, so there became that little internal fan following if you can call it that feels weird to say that, but you know what I mean they’re looking for you they’re waiting to.


Laurie Guest: To say something to you and I was headed into the washroom the ladies washroom and this lady came in behind me and actually stopped me before I walked in the store.


Laurie Guest: I thought it was so strange like, why is this lady following me anyway, she said, I just wanted to tell you there’s something you said three years ago.


Laurie Guest: That changed my life and like you’re kidding what did I say he’s don’t you get nervous when people say that to you like what in the world, did I say.


Laurie Guest: And she told me that what I said was, and I say this, a lot is that when we’re in business and we’re having difficulties conflicts at work.


Laurie Guest: One of the first questions that we need to ask ourselves is how can we save the marriage don’t go straight to firing somebody don’t go straight to quitting.


Laurie Guest: let’s back up and say, first, how can we save the marriage, because if we are a work, family we’re going to try and work it out.


Laurie Guest: I mean Dave is good friends is we are if all of a sudden, we had a conflict of some kind, I will not cut you off, as my friend.


Laurie Guest: I would sit down with you and say hey look something you said last week has been bothering me, and I know you would not intentionally hurt my heart.


Laurie Guest: So I need to talk to you about this right, we would clear the air and we need to fix it or we, or we stopped being friends, but I wouldn’t just disappear, it will work as the same way.


Laurie Guest: And that was an example that comes to mind, one of the most rewarding things that one simple sentence sentence of work to save the marriage first changed her whole life because, instead of quitting a job.


Laurie Guest: She went in spoke her mind and actually ended up getting a promotion promotion that led to a bigger job and a bigger opportunity and she was going to quit.


Laurie Guest: And I think sometimes when we do our work, especially date, we have no idea what little morsels we threw out there, we believe in our work, I think we’re good at what we do.


Laurie Guest: But we don’t always get the feedback and how it matters and so that was a highlight of my career and the woman’s bathroom of the Marriott Hotel in Cleveland Ohio.


David Horsager: Cleveland is usually a Punch line, this is a good one.


Laurie Guest: It wasn’t good one.


Laurie Guest: Good so yeah that’s my highlight.


David Horsager: Well wow we could talk more lori it’s a treat to have you on we’re going to find the show notes everybody can go to lori guest.com la you are IE guest.


David Horsager: Like the guest on the show that she’s been and and you can find out all of our other social media handles there.


David Horsager: You can find out about her newest book and everything she’s up to, or how you might want to partner with lori and we all want to see when that games coming out, but before we go we’ve got a question we ask everybody here it’s the trusted leader show who’s one leader you trust and why.


Laurie Guest: Tough question, well, I have to go back to my roots and I worked for a husband and wife medical team named Dr Neil Ross and Dr Lin hauser.


Laurie Guest: And they ran everything with trust they built a very successful ophthalmology clinic that I was privileged to work at in the beginning of my medical career.


Laurie Guest: And they kept their word, they were people of their word they did what they say they were going to do, and most importantly, gave me opportunities that led to everything that I do today.


Laurie Guest: The customer service that we gave to our patients was just astounding, and it all came from them as trusted leaders, and I do not doubt for a second.


Laurie Guest: That I would not be the person or the professional that I am today, if I had not gotten lucky enough to be hired by them, so I owe them quite a bit.


Laurie Guest: huh that’s my.


David Horsager: I love it that just brings back I don’t usually say this part but in our research, the last few years right before the pandemic number one reason people want to work for an organization.


David Horsager: In First World countries that we researched ahead of being paid more ahead of more.


David Horsager: You know more fun work and burn with a ping pong table number one reason was trusted leadership and what a joy it is when we get to work with leaders we trust so.


David Horsager: lori I trust you as a friend and a leader and i’m grateful for for that this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 38: Tim Shurr on The 5 Step Strategy to Getting Mentally Unstuck

In this episode, David sits down with Tim Shurr, Award Winning Speaker, Author, Psychologist, and Multi-Award Winning Hypnotist, to discuss the five step strategy to getting mentally unstuck.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Tim’s Bio:
Tim Shurr has advanced degrees in Psychology and is a Multi-Award Winning Hypnotist. He facilitated over 15,000 individual coaching sessions and hundreds of group training experiences over the last 32 years and discovered how to quickly eliminate anxiety and self-sabotage while skyrocketing productivity and leadership impact. As an award-winning Leadership Speaker, Tim has helped Corporate Clients earn millions in annual revenue using the One Belief Away Method from his book, One Belief Away! Tim’s approach is so effective, he’s been featured on ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX News, and the TEDx stage. He’s also the founder of the Legend Summit and host of the popular, How To Be Mesmerizing podcast.

Tim’s Links:
Website: https://timshurr.com/
“One Belief Away!” by Tim Shurr: https://amzn.to/3k1rVjV
Tim’s FREE program “The Power Of Your Unconscious Mind”: http://powermindsetprogram.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timshurr
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TimShurr
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/timshurr
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/realtimshurr
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timshurr

Key Quotes:
1. “Your biggest breakthroughs are often hidden in the places you don’t want to go.”
2. “Learning how to train your brain is a very powerful and useful skill to possess.”
3. “What’s got us here won’t get us there.”
4. “Our beliefs create our feelings. And then our feelings determine how we behave.”
5. “What would you rather believe instead?”
6. “Pay attention to the beliefs that you have.”
7. “What you think about comes about.”
8. “A belief is just an opinion. Its not a fact.”
9. “Find the beliefs and you will find your solutions.”
10. “If we feel safe its amazing what people can accomplish.”
11. “Its not the experiences you go through, its the beliefs that form that influence you.”
12. “If you’re not intentionally feeding your mind this positive energy, then its going to feed off of whatever else is around you.”
13. “Lift people up everywhere you go.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“One Belief Away!” by Tim Shurr: https://amzn.to/3k1rVjV
Tim’s FREE program “The Power Of Your Unconscious Mind”: http://powermindsetprogram.com
“Get Out of Your Way!” by Tim Shurr: https://amzn.to/3k3qlhs
“The Psychology of Winning” by Dennis Waitley: https://amzn.to/3hS5qv0
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
“The Trust Edge” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/3e4mWeu

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager i’ve got a special guest today he’s been on ABC NBC every all over the place he’s done 10,000 independent coaching sessions with executives.


David Horsager: He has written several books his newest and co and co written several books but.


David Horsager: One of them, I want to touch on today is one belief away we’re going to talk about that we’re going to talk about some specific things want you know he’s got a five step strategy for getting unstuck and there’s a whole lot more we didn’t say but welcome TIM sure.


Tim Shurr: David it is such an honor and a treat to be with you today.


David Horsager: Well, thank you for just being a part of our trusted leader show and our trusted leader audience and I think we’ve got some great things in store today before we get right into it, which we like to do, maybe a couple more things just about you.


Tim Shurr: Yes, so I think the one thing that allows me to stand out is that i’ve been a hypnotist for the last 30 years, and so I started out.


Tim Shurr: trying to figure out how to get rid of anxiety, how to get rid of the worries and the stress and the self sabotage or the imposter syndrome, or those.


Tim Shurr: You know I wanted to be a top performer I wanted to excel I wanted to make the world a better place, but on the flip side of that is all that internal pressure self doubt insecurity that we all experience from time to time.


Tim Shurr: And I wanted to figure out how do you shift that, how do you get out of your own way, and so I went to school for psychology but I found that talk therapy was very slow.


Tim Shurr: You could sometimes go to school for go to a counselor for 10 years and not feel any better.


Tim Shurr: And so I happened to stumble upon a hypnotist to hypnotize me one time and I felt this sense of peace and calm almost immediately and I got really interested on what it was.


Tim Shurr: I was skeptical at first, but open minded, thank goodness, because your biggest breakthroughs are often hidden in the places you don’t want to go.


Tim Shurr: And, and then I found that hypnosis was an incredible tool to unlock the power of your unconscious mind.


Tim Shurr: And so it’s been three decades now, and I actually have facilitated 15,000 individual hypnosis sessions over this period and it helped me to unlock the secrets of our mind and i’m here to share some of those secrets with you today.


David Horsager: there’s a lot of people skeptical like Oh, we shouldn’t open up, especially those that are you know, maybe you know.


David Horsager: have faith that would say ooh don’t open your mind to this kind of thing or that someone else controlling things, what do you say to that.


Tim Shurr: Why, I say that you’re correct, you should just allow yourself to be open to somebody who might have poor intentions right, however, I also believe that.


Tim Shurr: learning how to train your brain is a very powerful and useful skill to possess it’s what emotional intelligence is all about if religion is involved, the biggest thing that the devil ever did was get people not to use hypnosis.


Tim Shurr: any of you guys, it is it doesn’t want you learning how to tap into these God given tools that we have because really Hollywood makes hypnosis look like you can.


Tim Shurr: put people in trances and make them do whatever but that’s not what it is, or I wouldn’t be doing that right so.


Tim Shurr: it’s really about understanding how your beliefs, that you develop when you’re a kid are still driving your behavior as an adult today.


Tim Shurr: it’s influencing your money your marriage your health your priorities those beliefs, that we developed when we were eight year old kids.


Tim Shurr: And hypnosis gives you access to those beliefs, so that you can upgrade them so it’s practical it’s loving it’s empowering and it’s the fastest way to create change.


David Horsager: Well, you know i’ve got so many questions for you.


David Horsager: I don’t even know where to start I guess i’ll go my original way here to kind of give overall overview, but I want to come back to personal like we talked about.


David Horsager: Before this of you know kids that went through this pandemic time frame and avoided, and all that kind of stuff because I think.


David Horsager: there’s a lot of people, a lot of leaders that you know, think of things they want to do to shift their mindset or be able to deal with you know.


David Horsager: Challenges they’re facing, but I think we all have kids to that are our challenge or kind of avoiding you know key issues today.


David Horsager: let’s let’s jump in here to this one belief away book and you said something about how you know.


David Horsager: entrepreneurs and business leaders they get stuck they get stressed to get overwhelmed they struggle to make big breakthroughs and they’re often in you’re not solving the right problems, in fact, they often have mental malware malware tell us about it.


Tim Shurr: So we all have had computers, where we accidentally downloaded some kind of virus and now all of a sudden, our emails not working.


Tim Shurr: Right and we could have the best computer, but if we download that virus then it’s not going to allow those programs to run optimally.


Tim Shurr: Well, human beings have an operating system as well, and we also download malware I call it mental malware and those are beliefs like i’m not good enough, I have to be a perfectionist.


Tim Shurr: You can’t trust people right all kinds of beliefs that cause us to feel like we’re not enough or you can’t trust others.


Tim Shurr: And those beliefs, usually are what sabotage leaders, which is why you and I both talked so much about trust, but if you don’t upgrade those beliefs, that are causing you to not to trust yourself or others you can’t get there right and so yeah.


David Horsager: And so, how do you do that it’s like man changing a belief like you’ve had this belief, since childhood, or you i’ve had this belief, since whatever and i’m like I can’t even be aware, I, like you know for me it’s like oh.


David Horsager: I want to be more patient, I mean some of the driven, this is what helped us, you know change change lives change people, but sometimes I don’t like me pull back here, you know it’s it’s like.


David Horsager: Lord help me be patient and help me be patient right now, you know it’s like let’s just say that’s that’s when like Oh, how do I, how do I actually change a belief that i’m there i’m stuck in it, I know what even I might even be aware of it yeah.


Tim Shurr: Well it’s it’s easy to do, let me unpack this for you real quick with that very example you just gave.


Tim Shurr: So your brain is always trying to avoid pain and gain pleasure it’s built into us and we will want to avoid pain, more than anything else, so one of the things that you just said, David was that.


Tim Shurr: You know I might want to be patient, however, that energy is also what made me successful.


Tim Shurr: And after working with a lot of high powered CEOs and C suite execs I found that a lot of times we don’t want to give up that impatience or that drive because we think it’s our mojo.


Tim Shurr: And if we give it up we’re going to somehow lose what allowed us to become successful.


Tim Shurr: Which is not the case it’s actually just an evolution, because you and I both know that what God is here won’t get us there right so we’ve got to evolve.


Tim Shurr: But it’s hard to do that if you won’t upgrade a belief, because you think that it’s somehow still serving you.


Tim Shurr: So we go either you know black or white it’s got to be this way or that i’m patient or i’m not patient but there’s always options see you know the third option, where we have that new way of.


Tim Shurr: of having a belief, where i’m patient because I want to be open to the feedback of others, and I want to be kind, and I want to build trust.


Tim Shurr: And you do that by being patient and sometimes taking a breath and slowing down.


Tim Shurr: Like if you’re on ice I live in the Midwest when it snows it gets icy outside that’s not the time to slam on the acceleration pedal.


Tim Shurr: right because you’re you’re burning your wheels you but you ain’t going anywhere it’s time to take the foot off the gas and slow things down.


Tim Shurr: Well, we can do both there’s a time to engage and accelerate and then there’s a time to take your foot off the pedal so we just want to evolve our beliefs and get clear, so that your brain, it will not release a belief if it thinks it’s protecting you.


Tim Shurr: Or if it thinks it’s serving you in some positive way and if you can get clarity around that like if you have a belief that you can’t trust people.


Tim Shurr: You and I both know that is not you might say, yeah well, it keeps you from getting hurt.


Tim Shurr: But it also keeps you from building the relationships that you will need to be able to take your results to the next level.


Tim Shurr: And so that’s why the conflict comes in, where people have a hard time letting go of the old beliefs it’s because it’s still serving them and what we would do is shift that around.


David Horsager: How long does it take to shift a belief.


Tim Shurr: A couple of minutes.


Tim Shurr: wow yeah people, people and it stays shifted like once you understand that the world is round not flat, you know, and you have that experience you can’t go back to thinking, the world’s flat anymore.


Tim Shurr: Right now, it just doesn’t you just don’t believe that anymore right and so.


Tim Shurr: yeah so people think that oh you got to do all this work and it takes 21 days and it takes years to change beliefs that’s not been my experience.


Tim Shurr: And I was in the trenches doing 60 sessions a week for decades, you know, working with every kind of person there was with every kind of you know whether we’re growing your company or i’m getting people off cocaine and heroin and.


Tim Shurr: You know, as a psychologist.


Tim Shurr: As a psychologist yeah all that yeah well yeah so I have my master’s degree in psychology and I was working towards my doctorate but I found that tools like hypnotism neuro linguistic programming.


Tim Shurr: The peak performance tools that we’re helping people with post traumatic stress, which is what I was most interested in in the beginning.


Tim Shurr: I wasn’t really interested in helping people to grow companies or how do you get people to get along after a merger, I mean I wasn’t that wasn’t my forte and I was a kid that grew up in Cornfields I didn’t care about what you’re doing so yeah That was my evolution.


Tim Shurr: As I had more.


Tim Shurr: You know CEOs coming to see me for a variety of problems and they’re like hey you think you could hypnotize my sales team to close more sales.


Tim Shurr: And i’m like okay right but that wasn’t my forte so in the beginning it was helping people with anxiety post traumatic stress I worked with a ton of veterans and.


Tim Shurr: I was the guy that you went to when nothing else worked right, I was the last resort hypnotist you know that people went to, and then we got amazing results and so.


Tim Shurr: Those tools were what I went for and and I found that they weren’t just so much faster and better than cognitive behavioral therapy.


Tim Shurr: And he said this desensitization so I probably went into that a little bit farther.


David Horsager: was great.


Tim Shurr: tell you.


David Horsager: You know I want to get an example, some time but let’s first step into the five step strategy for getting unstuck This is something we can talk about right now, yes plenty of people are feel stuck whether it’s in.


David Horsager: Their work or business or the leaders we’re talking to today, or maybe in their marriage or family or life right so.


David Horsager: Can you give us a little hint on this, I know we’d like to read, no more we’re going to put everything.


David Horsager: In the snow snow notes, here we go Minnesota word in the show notes TIM sure calm and all the places, you can find everything about TIM his books, even if you want to.


David Horsager: connect with them in deeper ways have them come speak to your group, but let’s um let’s just jump into an overview of this five step strategy and get get some value right now.


Tim Shurr: yeah so start with the feeling right So what are you feeling, you know, instead of what are you thinking, what are you feeling in are you feeling.


Tim Shurr: Stress pressure overwhelm uncertainty, you know it’s usually a negative emotion that people are wanting to change when they’re feeling stuck or you procrastinating.


Tim Shurr: What is it that you’re feeling, then I want you to ask yourself what would, I have to believe to feel this way.


Tim Shurr: Because our beliefs, create our feelings and then our feelings determine how we behave So if you start with the feeling, and then you say all right well i’m feeling this stress, right now, this pressure, what would, I have to believe in order to feel this way.


Tim Shurr: Well i’d have to believe I guess that maybe it’s not going to work out or we don’t have the power to be able to you know the resources to be able to figure this out or there’s too much uncertainty.


Tim Shurr: So when the pandemic broke out David I started doing programs for fire chiefs around the country because I was already doing their conventions and.


Tim Shurr: Teaching leadership skills for fire chiefs the soft skills and and they really needed it in this time of uncertainty.


Tim Shurr: And a lot of Chiefs were overwhelmed because they were afraid they weren’t going to have the supplies the mass what they needed to be able to take care of everybody, and they were really stressed out.


Tim Shurr: And so you know the belief was that we’re not going to be able to handle it, you know something bad is going to happen so, then what we ask ourselves is what would you want to believe, instead, what would you rather believe instead.


Tim Shurr: And that simple, you know shift from focusing on what we’re afraid of to focusing on what we want to have happen.


Tim Shurr: causes your brain to pay attention to a completely different set of information that’s in your awareness that you might not be paying attention to.


Tim Shurr: Because you have infinite potential you could make so many decisions right now in this moment.


Tim Shurr: You can keep listening to the podcast you go to the bathroom you get something to eat, you could talk to a friend, you could get on a plane and go to Vegas you have so many things that you could do.


Tim Shurr: But your brain doesn’t pay attention to all of that it pays attention to whatever your belief is and then it causes you to.


Tim Shurr: Look, for evidence that supports that particular belief, which is why it’s so important to pay attention to the beliefs, that you have which hardly anybody ever does that.


Tim Shurr: Because we’re relying on our logical analytical mind we’re not paying attention to our unconscious mind which actually controls 80% of what we do.


Tim Shurr: Right and so those beliefs are like programs that are running in our mind and they cause us to focus on what we.


Tim Shurr: What we expect to have happen so if we’re having a fear that we’re overwhelmed and we’re not going to be able to work it out that our brain is finding all these reasons for why it’s not going to work out and what you focus on expands.


Tim Shurr: What you think about comes about, whatever you focus on most of the time, your life becomes.


Tim Shurr: So when you shift from what i’m really afraid of is that it’s not going to work out or I can’t trust it my people are going to work it out, or maybe i’m not sure.


Tim Shurr: what’s going to happen and i’m not sure what to do and that’s the bigger fear is, then, if I don’t look like i’m in control what are people going to think of me.


Tim Shurr: Am I going to lose my credibility are people going to start to miss trust me are people going to feel like maybe i’m not the right person for the job and i’m going to lose my job.


Tim Shurr: Right and if I lost my job, what would happen, then you know how am I going to pay the bills how am I gonna you know where would I find another job.


Tim Shurr: And a lot of times we start digging deep in the middle of the night is usually in the middle of night when we start having these worries and fears, you know all the what IFS.


Tim Shurr: And so, when you ask yourself all right, what would I rather have happen, what would I want to believe in this situation if you can believe anything, because a belief is just an opinion.


Tim Shurr: it’s not a fact so well i’d want to believe that it’s going to work out, I want to believe that.


Tim Shurr: Our people are going to rally that we’re going to find a solution that we’re going to figure out a way that i’m going to be able to rise to the occasion.


Tim Shurr: That i’m going to end up stronger and wiser and more effective and people believe in me even more and i’m going to believe in myself even more because of this situation it’s just an opportunity.


Tim Shurr: to grow and become more effective well if that’s what you’re focusing on then, all of a sudden, you start to feel more confident more secure.


Tim Shurr: Okay, and then, of course, then you would ask yourself step, four and five would be all right.


Tim Shurr: Well, if I was feeling this new feeling of confidence and there was a new opportunity because i’m thinking in a new way what would be a big step that I would make what would be a bold move that I would take.


Tim Shurr: what’s a big domino move where you push down one domino and and knocks all the other ones down by might have that conversation that difficult conversation I might call that customer up.


Tim Shurr: I might sit down and have that talk or have that apology or get together with different department heads and have just a creativity session, you know it would be a big.


Tim Shurr: move that I could make that would create some momentum, or you know get some things cleared out instead of swept under the carpet once you get clear on what your big move would be then step five is act on it put it into action.


Tim Shurr: And that process, you can go through it in a matter of minutes right but you’re, starting with the feeling.


Tim Shurr: what’s the fear that i’m having what would, I have to believe in order to have that fear, what would I rather believe, instead, which is number three.


Tim Shurr: Number four is what’s a big bold move that I would make, with this new belief in mind and then number five take action on that big bold new action.


David Horsager: So I, this is very interesting, I can hear some people saying wow that seems tremendous I could do that with myself, but what you when you said.


David Horsager: your team like you know I know some people would say, are a big problem for leaders they don’t confront the brutal facts like that person is failing they aren’t dealing with in your.


David Horsager: In it, in that one situation with others when I trust others I trust them for what they do consistently right if they’re late all the time, it would be kind of crazy to.


David Horsager: Trust that they’re also going to be on time, it would be like that’s that doesn’t make sense right so let’s say i’ve got this person outside of me.


David Horsager: I want to believe in them to you know do this new thing I so want that, for them, I hope it for them, but my my you know mind would say that’s not been my experience that would be stupid to believe that So how do I get that you know I want a number three.


David Horsager: What would I want to believe i’d want to believe that they’re going to succeed they’re going to do this, but I do have this skepticism and that because it just hasn’t made sense in any experience i’ve had so you know how do I do that.


Tim Shurr: Excellent outstanding question so alright, so in that situation, the first thing we did was fully focused on what we can do.


Tim Shurr: Instead of what we want others to do we focused on what can I do so I can be the cause, instead of the effect right what instead of what’s going to happen, what can I bring to the situation.


Tim Shurr: Then in that specific example, David what we would do is, if you feel like somebody is slipping what we do is, we have a conversation with them and we try to figure out what their belief is that’s driving that behavior.


Tim Shurr: If you become someone who is always looking for beliefs, you will find them and those beliefs are what’s driving everything.


Tim Shurr: If somebody is always late they might have a belief that they need to get a couple more things in before they get to the office and it always throws them off.


Tim Shurr: off right or maybe they have a belief that they’re dropping the ball now.


Tim Shurr: And because they’re dropping the ball they feel all this internal pressure, all this stress, which is wearing them out.


Tim Shurr: causing them to drink at night, causing them to not sleep good, then they wake up tired and then they’ve been doing this for months, so now they’re all wore out and they’re just Dreading that for that phone call that you’re fired.


Tim Shurr: And that kind of fear, usually causes people to shut down instead of step up, but if you are able to recognize it that was going on.


Tim Shurr: You could help upgrade that belief and give them a new sense of energy create some collaborative partners with them to help them succeed and believe in them and that builds trust, and it also.


Tim Shurr: helps you to be able to get to the root of the issue, instead of trying to deal with the symptoms that are happening like procrastination or showing up late and things like that those are symptoms so find the beliefs, and you will find your solutions.


David Horsager: that’s that’s the takeaway find your beliefs, and you will find your solutions.


David Horsager: let’s jump to that’s a five step strategy for getting unstuck.


David Horsager: And it seems like that might overlap with what I was going to ask before with let’s say you know kid in the pandemic that didn’t do their homework that’s a good performer but that avoided it or you know.


David Horsager: Many people listening are parents of children that maybe their their child isn’t doing exactly what they hope for and they see it taking them down the wrong path anything you would add to that situation.


Tim Shurr: yeah again a lot of times we don’t know how to make ourselves feel safe.


Tim Shurr: And so, one of the ways that you can help people to feel safe is to help them do a two step process where you use power breathing and you ask a power question to power breathing is when you take.


Tim Shurr: You breathe, through your nose you breathe down to your belly, then you slowly exhale you do that five times in a row, it takes less than a minute.


Tim Shurr: But you’re just literally just sitting there and breathing through your nose, most of us under pressure breathe through our mouth, which actually makes us feel more stressed inside so breathing through your nose.


Tim Shurr: And then slowly exhaling it causes us to slow down, and when you do that five times in a row it activates your brains relaxation response so you actually get a little hit of dopamine.


Tim Shurr: And it makes you feel better so you got built in antidepressants in your brain already you don’t have to take anything you just.


Tim Shurr: Use your power breathing once you slow down, then you focus on asking a power question, what is the outcome that I want what resources do I have who can I lean on for support.


Tim Shurr: How do I want to feel right now what’s one way, I could feel that way that would make me feel good about myself afterwards, like I could go eat a bunch of junk food, but then I won’t feel good afterwards.


Tim Shurr: But I could you know, take a walk listened to a motivating video on YouTube you know and then all of a sudden, I start to believe in myself and feel like this is possible, and then it shifts how you feel and it shifts what you focus on so usually just giving people resources helps tremendously.


David Horsager: Are those power questions in one of your books or do you have a handout we can throw in here on with them.


Tim Shurr: yeah i’ll send you a handout that you can with samples of power questions so i’ll get you that and then, yes, these are in my book, the one belief away, and also the get out of your way books have those power questions.


David Horsager: Get out of your way but we’ll put all these in the show notes trusted leader show dot com.


Tim Shurr: Okay, tell you one of the fastest ways though really that I take people through isn’t really just asking them questions because that can shift pretty quickly.


Tim Shurr: Because you’re using your conscious mind you’re shifting what you’re focusing on which immediately makes you feel more secure.


Tim Shurr: And if we feel safe it’s amazing what people can accomplish it’s amazing what we can get through right so Marcus really is one said that every obstacle in your path is just fuel for your fire.


Tim Shurr: That you go for your fire right, yes, so yeah and so um.


Tim Shurr: But really what I tend to do is I start with that feeling and I have them follow that feeling back to the very first time they ever had that feeling.


Tim Shurr: and almost everybody David goes back to some point when they were a kid when that belief was initially formed.


Tim Shurr: And so that’s why you can upgrade a belief and it’s sustainable, because when I take people through that experience.


Tim Shurr: It shifts how they’re feeling it’s like going back and changing the memory that you have so instead of striking out at the big game, or when you ask someone to go on a date and they said no, or your best friend asked him out.


Tim Shurr: You know behind your back, and you know when we go through those little traumas that we go through, and those beliefs are formed it’s like going back and rewriting the memory.


Tim Shurr: and upgrading the belief it’s not the experiences you go through it’s the beliefs that form that influence you, you know Wayne Dyer used to say that if you get bit by a snake.


Tim Shurr: The snake bite hurts but it’s the venom that’s inside of you that’s what paralyzes you The goal is to get the venom out.


Tim Shurr: And we all have these blind spots these.


Tim Shurr: biases these bad habits that were formed inside of us as a way of surviving when we were young and some of them are very helpful, but some of them are very destructive and it’s.


Tim Shurr: Our goal is to get the poison.


Tim Shurr: out as an adult.


David Horsager: You talked about something you know you call it achiever syndrome yeah what tell me about that.


Tim Shurr: Well, you and I are achievers and everybody that listens to your program is an achiever.


Tim Shurr: Right, we are people who believe we can make the world a better place right and we want to.


Tim Shurr: offer value, and we want to help people, and we want to grow, we want to see how far we can take it, we want to see if we can set these crazy goals and then actually pull them off.


Tim Shurr: and part of that in the beginning, usually comes from a fear of not being good enough or trying to prove ourselves or having a chip on our shoulder because someone told us we couldn’t do something and we’re like oh yeah watch me right.


Tim Shurr: And so, a lot of it in the beginning, it shifts when we’re older, but now we want to do it because we want to add value, but in the beginning, it often started from anxiety right that fear that we’re not going to be able to do it, and so it keeps us working harder and pushing harder and.


Tim Shurr: sacrificing our health or relationships or friends or other activities because we’ve got to work and we got to achieve this goal and we’ve got to make it happen.


Tim Shurr: And sometimes we get to a point where it feels like we’ve built this giant hamster wheel, and although it’s powerful and people admired it now, we feel like we can’t get off of it or everything’s going to fall down around us.


Tim Shurr: Right, and so I call that achiever syndrome, because now.


Tim Shurr: That anxiety that allowed us to be able to perform and achieve goals is the same kind of anxiety that now it doesn’t matter what we achieve and what we accomplish.


Tim Shurr: and never feels like it’s enough and we never feel like we can be content or even take a day off without our mind going 1000 miles an hour.


Tim Shurr: So it’s it’s a new way of being able to evolve, so that, instead of playing not to when we’re learning how to play or.


Tim Shurr: Instead of playing not to lose because that’s often how we start we’re trying not to lose we start to shift to playing to win.


Tim Shurr: And we start to realize that how we win is through helping others win and it’s not so self focused anymore, and you know that’s the whole idea behind your.


Tim Shurr: Trust empire that you’ve brought so much good into the world by teaching people how to trust each other and, of course, the only way, you can do that is by trusting yourself first.


David Horsager: yeah so let’s take someone senior executive they’ve got achiever syndrome here.


David Horsager: they’re dying, I have one.


David Horsager: Senior leader.


David Horsager: head of one of the biggest top 10 companies a big portion of the one of the biggest companies in the world and.


David Horsager: we’re in private in public key as hard as nails he is tough, he is he won’t let anybody in yeah privately.


David Horsager: there’s been some really cool things that have happened, but I still remember when he said, David, I feel I wake up with a pit in my stomach with the weight of this organization on my back.


David Horsager: What What do you do with that what, how do you help them move from there, what would you do.


Tim Shurr: it’s very common when you have a high level position you put on the show yep that’s kind of what we call we put on the show right so hard as nails or you know nothing bothers you it just rolls.


Tim Shurr: off your back.


David Horsager: mm hmm.


Tim Shurr: And then you come home, and you have the divorces and the addictions, and you know all the because human beings aren’t made to have that kind of pressure and that kind unless they snap and they become narcissistic right and and but, most people.


Tim Shurr: It was just set up that way you know either they were raised by a family member that was that way or that’s what they learned growing up, you know from the bottom up.


Tim Shurr: And that’s what they learned and it’s exhausting but we’re afraid to take our emotional Armor off is renee brown would call it we’re afraid to remove that emotional Armor because.


Tim Shurr: that’s how you die and it literally will feel like life or death.


Tim Shurr: You know, and so in that situation, what I do is I take them through the awakening process again I take them through that that feeling of responsibility that feeling of pressure and I track it back and I guarantee he would end up going back to some time in his childhood.


Tim Shurr: Where that.


Tim Shurr: belief of who he had to become to get love formed.


Tim Shurr: hmm and so you know the reason that people just don’t let go of that stuff is because it does feel like life and death, and it literally you don’t talk about love very much not you i’m just in general, business people don’t talk about love very much, but it is what rules human beings.


Tim Shurr: You know our need for that love and attention and if.


Tim Shurr: We don’t feel like we’re going to get it, how do I get it and we develop all kinds of strategies some that make us uber wealthy and successful.


Tim Shurr: But the flip side of that is that pit in your stomach having a hard time getting out of bed feeling, you know, in the middle of the night like, how can I have all of this, and still be unhappy what’s wrong with me.


Tim Shurr: mm hmm and and I can’t let it show, because you know people will take me down as soon as they see any weakness which is true, there will be people that are just waiting.


Tim Shurr: To you know see that crack in the Armor because they’re using a similar strategy to get what they want.


Tim Shurr: So we would go and we would actually make that person even stronger by upgrading their sense of their deep sense of self love and self acceptance.


Tim Shurr: And a feeling of peace, because then they can feel safe without the Armor.


Tim Shurr: Which is a whole new trip and people that are waiting for that Armor when the Armor comes off they don’t know how to handle someone like that, so they go usually after someone else.


Tim Shurr: So it even fends off your enemies, you know just by you, it developing this new sense of self love and self acceptance.


David Horsager: hmm yeah.


Tim Shurr: And i’m able to do that because I spent decades doing that you know, with so many people.


Tim Shurr: With so much emotional Armor.


David Horsager: yeah.


David Horsager: Tell us right here i’ve got a few more questions I got to ask, even though we’re.


David Horsager: we’re we’ve gotten so much already, but before we get to those last couple of questions.


David Horsager: You are you know we’re going to give all of the places to find out about you in the show notes.


David Horsager: Tell us about the free program power, the unconscious mind that you’re giving our listeners today and tell us out loud, also where to find that part of mindset program calm and anywhere else you especially would would allow people to reach out to you.


Tim Shurr: Thank you, David that’s very kind of you, so I created a program called the power of your unconscious mind, because so many people don’t really understand.


Tim Shurr: How their mind works, and so I put together a really fun program that starts off with a lot of cool stories from all the clients experience, as you can imagine, as a hypnotist.


Tim Shurr: All you know 30 years of clients some of the experiences that i’ve had, and so I talked about a lot of those experiences and how powerful.


Tim Shurr: Just everyday normal people are you know, with the power we’re walking around inside of us we just don’t know how to use it it’s kind of like having a big steel safe.


Tim Shurr: And you only know two numbers of the three number combination feels like that door is never going to open you’re never going to get that treasure.


Tim Shurr: But if you have that third number that door swings right open it’s like hey there it is right, real easy.


Tim Shurr: And that’s what this program teaches you it teaches you how your mind works and it gives you all these cool.


Tim Shurr: Little shortcuts or mind hacks you know that will help you to use the power of your mind to create your life by design, so if you go to power mindset program COM all your listeners for this amazing podcast will get a free copy.


David Horsager: love it Thank you so much for that TIM, and thanks for being here today and a couple questions, I want to ask is just you know you and I.


David Horsager: Get the unique opportunity to walk next to some pretty amazing leaders and have some some pretty significant influence in spite of ourselves and.


David Horsager: What, how do you lead yourself i’m always curious about I you know it’s it’s We talk here a lot because we’re on.


David Horsager: Big stages, a lot how am I going to be the same onstage as I am offstage how do I, what are the routines so that I stay having a.


David Horsager: Healthy vibrant marriage and being a good dad and also leading my team well, but what routines do you have to be healthy physically spiritually emotionally mentally or you know with your team what what, what do you have a routine or two you’d share well.


Tim Shurr: I think the biggest secret for all of us as we surround ourselves with good people mm hmm right people who want to make a difference, people who will give us honest feedback people that will put us in check if need be, which happens occasionally right.


Tim Shurr: yeah so.


Tim Shurr: When you surround yourself with good people and good information I spent a lot of time reading a lot of time listening to podcasts a lot of time.


Tim Shurr: on YouTube just listening to videos while i’m usually exercising and it feeds your mind this positive energy if you’re not intentionally.


Tim Shurr: feeding your mind this positive energy then it’s going to feed off, of whatever else is around you and there’s so much fear and insecurity that.


Tim Shurr: So much propaganda all around us, that I don’t want my mind munching on that I want to munching on beliefs that say you’re good you’re worthy you’re already enough you don’t have to prove yourself.


Tim Shurr: You don’t have to even make it about yourself, make it about others, you know go about your day making others feel like they’re the coolest kid in the room.


Tim Shurr: right that you would pick them first on any team, you know lift people up everywhere, you go.


Tim Shurr: And I also you know I one of my favorite books here is on my desk.


Tim Shurr: on it a whole this one of you so it’s called trusted leader eight pillars that drive results because I saw one of your interview questions was what’s one of your favorite books that you’ve been reading lately, you know down my desk and your book with it there, and that.


Tim Shurr: was pretty easy.


David Horsager: I love it Thank you.


Tim Shurr: Yes, so if you haven’t got trusted leader get that one and trusted edge awesome books I love.


Tim Shurr: A man can I love, how you wrote them and how they’re laid out.


Tim Shurr: That makes it feel easy to read, when you’re selling I don’t like the word busy I like the word in demand, so when you’re in demand, you don’t have time to read a bunch of books, so it makes it easy, so thank you for doing that.


David Horsager: So.


Tim Shurr: that’s it has some mentors.


Tim Shurr: i’ve been really lucky.


Tim Shurr: The last year i’ve spent a lot of time with Dennis whately Dr Dennis whately who wrote the psychology of winning and.


Tim Shurr: and spent a lot of he’s 87 years old and we spent a lot of time together and he is like one of the most successful motivational speakers that ever lived he almost kind of started the movement.


Tim Shurr: With conan night and conan kale right no Nightingale conant Earl Nightingale kind of launched his career.


Tim Shurr: And so, and he’s still the last time we talked last week he’s talking about the power of of not making assumptions negative assumptions and assuming the best in others and keeping our ego in check, and how can I bring in someone else’s day you know he’s still at 87.


Tim Shurr: always trying to make himself better and he’s just been a really amazing influence for me this last year.


David Horsager: That was that’s where we got the resource question we got the lead the have mentors what’s one you know one best piece of advice one more like do you have a tag piece of advice you’d say here’s something I would do right now, everybody.


Tim Shurr: yeah I would say that your biggest breakthroughs are hidden in the places you don’t want to go so look at where you’re resisting where you’re putting things off where you feel uncomfortable.


Tim Shurr: And then that’s where you need to go, because when you go in that direction you’re uncovering the belief.


Tim Shurr: That will allow you to make a huge breakthrough in your life, because when you upgrade a belief it literally upgrades the information in your sphere around you, you know everything we’re like we live in this.


Tim Shurr: digital world you know your mind can pay attention to so many different possibilities.


Tim Shurr: And when you upgrade a belief you tune into a new set of information that you hadn’t noticed before and that new information will help you to achieve the goal that you have.


Tim Shurr: faster than how you are probably trying to do it on your own.


Tim Shurr: Right, so when we have prosperity success abundance it’s not something that you collect it’s something that you tune into.


Tim Shurr: And the fastest way to tune into it is find where you resist figure out what the belief is and start to upgrade it and the one belief away book will help you or, if you want faster results reach out to my office and.


Tim Shurr: And we’ll get it done in less than an hour and you’ll find yourself, creating momentum and magic in your life that will blow your mind, no matter how successful you are hmm.


David Horsager: TIM sure Thank you so much, well, I think we answered your your week, we have one more question remember all the show notes trusted leader show.com.


David Horsager: I asked this you might say, it’s Dennis whately but i’m going to ask it again because it’s our final question, and that is it’s a trusted leader show who is a leader, maybe have another one that you trust most trust and why.


Tim Shurr: yeah Troy Hannah he was President and central restaurant products and now he’s President of another company, and when I first got into working with with companies.


Tim Shurr: He taught me things like whatever it is, and you know margins and kpis and.


Tim Shurr: I didn’t know what any of that stuff was right and and he really kind of took me under his wing and showed me what a people centric culture oriented.


Tim Shurr: leader is like he was very transformational he was very transactional but he was very transformational as well.


Tim Shurr: You know he’s very good he started as a sales guy and then worked his way up the ranks and then you know that company almost doubled its profitability in the five years that him and I work together, it was pretty extraordinary and.


Tim Shurr: I just learned so much from him because he would tell me the truth and he would be very focused on the results that we were going to get but he was also open to growing, and you know, one of the coolest things that ever happened.


Tim Shurr: Is I would go sit in his office, and when we first sat down, it was just him and his desk and his paper paperwork right and files he had to go through.


Tim Shurr: You know, a couple of years into it, I went in there, and there was pictures of his family all over the desk.


Tim Shurr: Right, he never showed that side of himself before he had never talked about his kids his wife anything like that.


Tim Shurr: And one of the best comment or compliments I ever received and i’ve had a bunch of them, but he said you didn’t just make us a better company, you made us better people i’m like that’s what Troy Hannah.


David Horsager: That’s fantastic well there has more we could cover but TIM sure, thank you, thank you, thank you for this time together that’s the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 37: Dr. Jeffrey Magee on The 3 Steps To Create Buy In Amidst Change

In this episode, David sits down with Dr. Jeffrey Magee, Top Leadership and Marketing Strategist, Best Selling Author, Speaker, and Publisher, to discuss how to create change and the three steps to create buy in amidst change.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Dr. Jeffrey’s Bio:
Dr. Jeffrey Magee brings over two decades of Executive and Corporate Development expertise, with the last decade working in both the start-up to mature-growth market business sector and with differing State National Guard Adjutant Generals across America.

Jeff has and does maintain long term clients working with Association and Organizations at the Board level and across the C-Suite. Beyond this, the importance of working with an organizations entire Human Capital platform from on-boarding, integration, and sustained engagement is critical for an organizations health blue-print.

Jeff works with organizations (profit and not-for-profit, private and public sector) in the multi-million dollar earnings market through to six-billion dollar earnings market.

Understanding the reality of hard work ethics and drive from an early age, raised on a farm, Jeff started his first business at age 15 and sold it before going to college.

By age 24, he was recognized by American Home Products a Fortune 500 company as its top salesman in the nation, while at the same time becoming the youngest certified sales instructor for the Dale Carnegie Sales Course.

After experiencing downsizing in 1987, he went on to work as a sales associate for the nation’s largest educational and youth advertising/marketing firm, Target Marketing, and was promoted to Vice President of Sales and Chief Operating Officer within two years.

Dr. Jeffrey’s Links:
Website: https://www.jeffreymagee.com/index.cfm
Leadership Academy of Excellence: https://www.jeffreymagee.com/leadership-academy.cfm
Performance Driven Selling Bootcamp: https://performancedrivensellingbootcamp.com/
“Your Trajectory Code” by Dr. Jeffrey Magee: https://amzn.to/3hs4T2A
“The Managerial Leadership Bible” by Dr. Jeffrey Magee: https://amzn.to/3jFRjeG
“TALENTification!” by Dr. Jeffrey Magee: https://amzn.to/2V2A3WT
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjeffspeaks
Twitter: https://twitter.com/drjeffspeaks
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeffmagee/
Professional Performance Magazine: https://www.jeffreymagee.com/professional-performance-magazine.cfm

Key Quotes:
1. “Life is nothing but a formula.”
2. “The difference between failure and success is nothing.”
3. “Common language in a business should be non-negotiable.”
4. “The rise and fall of every civilization, and thus every business, is based upon common language.”
5. “How do you keep score?”
6. “People will do what they’re incentivized to do.”
7. “Think of trust as a bank account.”
8. “Every business that’s thriving, their senior leadership team has sales revenue generation in their pedigree.”
9. “You have to have the discipline today to ______.”
10. “You are your own legacy.”
11. “If you’re a parent, your kids are not your legacy.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Your Trajectory Code” by Dr. Jeffrey Magee: https://amzn.to/3hs4T2A
“The Managerial Leadership Bible” by Dr. Jeffrey Magee: https://amzn.to/3jFRjeG
Professional Performance Magazine: https://www.jeffreymagee.com/professional-performance-magazine.cfm
Leadership Academy of Excellence: https://www.jeffreymagee.com/leadership-academy.cfm
Dr. Seuss 20 books Collection box set: https://amzn.to/2TncNm4

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have an expert of experts with us today hey welcome Dr Jeffrey Magee.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you, Sir good to see you again appreciate the opportunity, just to sit down and visit with you.


David Horsager: hey I really appreciate this you know, there was something when we got to know each other in in an association in our industry.


David Horsager: You know I I signed up for something I have not signed up for since i’ve been there every year, probably was probably maybe 20 years ago, but there was something called.


David Horsager: table with the experts or listen to an expert or something so I signed up for this thing I could be in a round table, you know with an expert and the expert at my table was.


David Horsager: Dr Jeffrey mcgee and I I I will never forget that so just a little bit about him he’s a.


David Horsager: Leading leadership and marketing strategist he’s the author of more than 20 books some of his latest books trajectory Code, the managerial leadership Bible.


David Horsager: 20 more books than that he is the publisher of performance, the magazine thanks for.


David Horsager: spotlighting me, sometimes in there in our work and he has a host of credentials credentials, but.


David Horsager: he’s really a leader of leaders and an expert thought leader in many of these spaces, you and I agree on this, like we like research based we don’t want cheesy motivation and yet we want to make it simple and usable tomorrow morning, so it can make a difference, and so I appreciate that.


David Horsager: about you.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you very much appreciate it.


David Horsager: Well, like you know, give us a little start here before we get into what what are a couple things not many people know about Dr Jeffrey mcgee.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I don’t know that’s a great question that’s raised on a farm in Colorado i’ve.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: been on air force one with President Reagan I was the last person to interview Dr seuss before he passed away and I went to College as an athlete and quickly realized.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Being a high school athlete is different than being with a real athletes and at the backup and say okay what’s my next career path.


David Horsager: I like that.


David Horsager: Oh that’s fun what was some you know we’re on the dress leader show we get we can’t let that go What was it like being with President Reagan.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So in 1984 I worked for a publication on the east coast and gave me a chance to step outside of the box of normal journalism to look for unique people.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And the approach on that one was actually at the time the pilot of air force one.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Was blood brother relative to the gentleman who is responsible for the secret service detail, protecting the presence that was my angle.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We were at the White House shooting some pictures, the president came in saw his pilot they’re kind of what that was weird was my pilot at the White House.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: came over you know you kind of hard to say no, you can’t walk over he’s going to come over, and so it was very are experiencing basically great person very approachable very magnetic.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Just instantly you were at ease in his face obviously your son, but he so it was a phenomenal experience brilliant gentlemen.


David Horsager: yeah wow and and tell me something, you know as long as you said, I wasn’t going to go here, but you know this is kind of fun what is something that stood stood out in your interview last interview with Dr seuss.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We you know again same angle same approach you know, Dr seuss was was a fascinating gentlemen.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Very, to the point sort of responses in the questions wasn’t really a good conversation and it’s like you’d ask the question in the answer it’s like okay that’s all you’re getting but, but some of the.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Some of the unit is Ryan with green eggs and ham so.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Exactly so some unique things that came out that I didn’t realize at the time, every one of his books are political books and I didn’t realize that he said, you know if you if you look at the print.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: dateline of when it was first released and think about what’s going on in the world, the book is designed to get people to think about at that time it was going on in the world, so it’s fascinating I didn’t realize that.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Second, he never had children, he married a lady that had kids he lived in lighthouse.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He was a graphic artist on it, you know New York City before World War Two basically.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: theater you know Theodore guy useful was his name and he basically wasn’t having much success so after World War Two he came back and he flipped it used his mom’s maiden name gave himself the the moniker of Dr and started marking himself as Dr seuss and the rest is history so.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A lot of interesting nuggets came out.


David Horsager: that’s fun I love that.


David Horsager: Well there’s a lot we can cover today, but I think you know you’re definitely an expert in management leadership, and I think one place, I want to start, even though it might sound.


David Horsager: Big and then come into some of our work around trust and everything, but I think a lot of people wonder at least I do, how do you actually change individuals.


David Horsager: And then I want to go into how do we change the culture of organizations, but.


David Horsager: You know you see people they say they want to change they set a goal, they do this, but they don’t actually you know, very few people I was talking about this this morning actually habit change, I used to do this, some.


David Horsager: That I used to ask people how many of you have actually changed a diff wanted to change a habit.


David Horsager: There you know there’s of the audience hundred you know 100% I wanted to change a habit, I want to change and all of them some kind of difficult habits and then I asked how many of you ever have.


David Horsager: Like a habit of losing 30 pounds or more stopping smoking some habit that was kind of difficult maybe 6% it’s not easy.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Very good, what are some of the.


David Horsager: Things that you know that actually help people actually change a habit, how do you help.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So in my leadership work we actually have some forums and i’m big on forms, I think, life is nothing but a formula if you’re a.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You had an older brother sister when you’re a child, you saw how they did things you studied it in you, you mimic them and then you may be tweaked It made it your own approach.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If you had an older brother sister that did something I got caught, you can realize okay that you know I gotta change the formula here I don’t give something trouble.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Add 30 years now, your adult it’s the same thing so really it’s about what’s the formula, you know we are creatures of habit dusty adage and so, once you realize how you do things.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: In you like it, you can double down if you realize how you do things and you don’t like it, then you can start to reverse analyze and change their habits so here’s some of the formulas I would share with our viewers.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, one of the things I talked about in my recent book your trajectory codes, I make a statement from the stage when i’m talking at large conventions are working and leadership development in a small group.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And I say folks i’m going to say something here it’s going to challenge conventional wisdom, the difference between failure and success is nothing.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The difference between failure and success is nothing everyone talks about you know to be more successful do, and they want to sell you the whatever’s instance let’s back this up and think about from a performance psychology standpoint here’s the point.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: five words, you can write down these will take you to disaster same five words will take you to success, therefore, the difference between five and successes nothing.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: it’s a matter of how you channel these five words which goes to in essence your questions so think of it this way.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We all learn how to do things so that would be the word behavior we could write down behavior on the whiteboard at the front of the room, as they say.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then underneath that there’s four additional words.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, training and development, just like what you do around the trusted leader programming, what I do around leadership development we train people on behaviors because again fill in the blank with wherever you want to go with the conversation.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But once you learn how to do something behaviorally that’s a conscious activity, then it starts to become subconscious or the word below behavior is habit.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: It starts to become a habit, the more you do it, or the more it’s you know compliance based training and you got to check this holding you accountable.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then, once it starts to become a habit and starts to slide your subconscious brain is kind of like okay I got it I don’t really have to pay attention.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Once it goes to that second word of habit, then it goes to the third Ward which I call personal SAP a personal standard operating procedure.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Once something migrates from behavior to have it forming to personalize soapy personal so P means now it’s pretty much ingrained in your subconscious and it’s autopilot.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: People sometimes if you drive to work, you know again you’ll be home you’re paying attention next, and you realize you’re getting out of the car working they go holy crap I don’t remember the drive that’s your third level.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So those elements same thing in a business, we do that, then, once it hits that third level, I draw a line on the whiteboard and I said so now what happens it goes to the fourth word and the fourth word is basically ownership.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We take ownership of the way we do things we start to push away any stimulant any information anyone that might challenge that pathway that pathology that habit that behavior that personal esop.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And then, once you get to that level, then you rapping motion the fifth word is emotion.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You wrap emotion around so now you’re offended in your defensive and you’re on guard anyone comes and says.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: David that’s the wrong way of doing it and knows i’m even pointing my finger because that’s usually how the words come out because that’s what happened when we were kids.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, if you think about those five those five can take you to failure transfer those words to the positive column it’s exact same pathology to success.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So the difference is now we can go even deeper with trusted leader or with leadership work that I do to my leadership Academy of excellence programming.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: is how you create the change i’ll give you three more words in a minute, which is going to be the secret sauce everybody.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But you have to recognize again if I start out wherever and I want to create the right behaviors from the beginning, or I want to get people to maybe.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: adjust their behaviors a little bit or change them completely.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You have to have checkpoints like little gates, how do you know if you’re on track if I do this it gets me to this checkpoint or gate and I go through it and I go to the next step.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know what are those key performance indicators that can validate if you’re on track or off track that we use in business.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So then another overlay to making sure those five words written down don’t take you to disaster would take you to success.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: is going to be what’s the accountability mechanisms what’s the accountability partners, you have what sort of a.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: cohort do you have do you have a coach or a champion or a mentor you know all those words were used in business, but now we’re putting together architecturally.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To make sense, so again, if you want to change behavior, just as you said, stop smoking or lose weight it actually is easy to do if you build the architecture necessary to create change.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The problem is, we start off with the right intention, but we don’t have all the architecture there, so we get in trouble.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You go to a nice restaurant they bring you out a meal and wow there’s a lot of foods so we’re kind of taught here you have on your plate off, but most meals that are delivered to you, I really probably enough to have like two or three settings out of them.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So freak out the waitstaff soon as they deliver your meal say hey this looks great could you bring me like right now at to go box and look at look at you weird and so when they bring it over take half the food off your plate.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Well, if it’s a restaurant you go to on a regular basis involved that restaurant to help you don’t cut back to food portion.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Say i’m ordering this when it comes out bring it out beautifully have to go back behind your backs and hand that to me so now you’re holding me accountable to breaking it down, I mean that’s a simple silly example.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But we don’t put the accountability steps in there and that’s why we get in trouble second and last answer and it’ll give you the three steps to change it i’ve come up with.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: isn’t you have to incentivize yourself with the other person again if you build compensation business.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Around performance excellence you’ll get more of it in the United States we’ve actually calibrated people to be lazy and pathetic and then those words sometimes offend people have to bring some Gallup research into prove it.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I mean again they have found that roughly you know 56% of workers are disengaged complacent or you can be more harsh and just say that they’re worthless, but people don’t become worthless overnight they’re pushed that way.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: 15% are actively against anything, those are your cancer cells and organization i’ve written about those So if you do the math 29% of any demographic or proactively engaged.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: study any successful business they figured out how to hire the 29 percenters and incentivize at 29 percenters again if you’re an employee based organization that has ownership.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then everyone understands how to save every penny, you can because at the end of the day for all employees owners.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: that’s what happens at the end of day you get paid at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day, right now, everyone gets paid at the beginning, and we have challenges.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So a lot of response to a question about how do you create the change, you know what what what’s the pathology to get there.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But if I were to back it up, let me give you my three macro answers, if you want to create change you get people to buy into doing something new or different step one i’ve learned is the word awareness.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Think about a debut not have these smartphones that we now use everyone has a smartphone if you take your smartphone you think if you’re searching something on the Internet.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And you and you find it and you click to go to that information we’re held hostage today by that six second advertising commercial that pops up and you can’t get to where you want to go until it counts down and then, when it says skip boom you hit skip.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: These three words i’m given to you, you can test it right now, when you’re done with this podcast just pick up your cell phone.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You search for something the Ad pops up, they have six seconds to do these three words and if they do these three words you’ll tend to keep watching that and for a couple more seconds.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But they don’t do these three words you’re going to hit a board skip and go to where you want to go so here’s a quick way to test how to create change.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: first step is awareness and awareness deals with two words what and why.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I want to get David to create change in anything his department is team himself.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then, the first thing I have to slow down and speak to is i’ve got to get david’s brain wrapped around what i’m talking about and why it’s important what i’m talking about and why it has an impact on you, because if I don’t.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I may be in mentally and talking about step to your brain still step one see we use this buzzword getting people to buy in i’m giving you the roadmap of what binds all about buying has to be first on what we’re talking about in y which is awareness.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: second step dens engagement and engagement number two deals with all the H O w so if David if I, if I have 100 point.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: PowerPoint slide and then slide 10 you understand what i’m talking about and why then I don’t want to show the next 90 slides trying to make my case one, because now i’m going to turn you off I need to instantly go to.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Number two engagement our brain and wants to know how to do this, how to fix this how to solve this how to adjust how to you know accommodate.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And if we make the H O w so incredibly easy with support mechanisms like what I just talked about a minute ago for the five steps.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That our brain instantly go to step three to change there’s only three steps to change awareness.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: does what and why engagement deals with how, and the third step is commitment and commitment deals with the WHO and the win.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So why people will convert and change if we show them and make the case for one, two and then three, the problem is we’re wanting everyone to be at three because you and I spent time last night, as executives getting our brain wrapped around one and two.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We spent all night getting our brain wrapped around one and two, and then you want to send an email and three seconds and expect them to go from one to two three so huge.


David Horsager: I love that I love that let’s take that another level, so that’s a human, I mean, I think we start in this really gets into you know our work around how how how to get to absolute clarity of how we do some we asked how until we can act on it today or tomorrow.


David Horsager: But the What if let’s take a big company like you and i’ve worked in let’s take a you know or a corporate you know.


David Horsager: or a country needs to Africa we’re trying to cut down corruption issues right or we’re trying to change the culture of a big company we won’t name them, but how do we.


David Horsager: How do we apply this to cascading through a big company I think it’s It makes sense, like Okay, we got to get awareness around a common language and we gotta you know it.


David Horsager: makes sense, but are there any just just a couple of tips to think about how would I drive change in a group a team, or even an organization.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Powerful case so that conversation right there could you know united sit down and visit on that one all day long and still just be touching the surface.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I have a couple responses that when I think one let’s start with one of the words you just use, which was common language.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: It is amazing, and how many organizations or, as you said countries we don’t have common language so i’m going to answer your question, David but it’s going to be.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A little controversial for some people that have an essence, you know minimalist ears i’m about to hurt and blow their brain up number one common language to a business is non negotiable.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: common language in a business should be non negotiable, the key people that have created the company or on the company are making the company possible for me, or you to become an employee in.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The common language is what keeps everyone together and if someone comes into the organization and they want us to change the language to accommodate them.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then know you need to say hey the beauty of the capitalist system is there’s the door walk at it there’s a 9000 are the places to go.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The rise and fall of every civilization there’s not many history majors left on the planet, unfortunately K 12 system is produced idiots for the past 30 years that they think rhetoric is a fact.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The rise and fall of every civilization and that’s every business is based upon common language, we have the same common language, it gives us our ability to stick together.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You start attacking that common language introducing 9000 or the variations you get in trouble so that’s the first point, which is going to be very uncomfortable people.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: say again, unless you’re a billionaire think about what i’ve just said, see every billionaire will challenge my COMP the Bill Gates the Zuckerberg and etc it’s easy when you’re a billionaire to have socialistic ideas.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Go back and look when they’re building the business they didn’t have one of those I hate to pop the bubble look at the history it’s at one is common language very sensitive.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: topic it’s everyone’s stressed out number two then.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Values your values will dictate your common language common language will dictate your values and the two are interconnected.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What are your values if I want to bring an organization that the other part of your question, I want to create change within it.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What are the common values, because your common values will give you a way with grace and dignity and to be polite.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To allow people to come into that circle, or to politely say look, this is just not the right place for you no disrespect.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: This is not the right place for you go, you know go create your own business or go to another one see that’s the second place, we get in trouble what’s the values.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: there’s a lot of great examples woolworth.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If no one knows walworth write it down there’s your homework lesson.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Montgomery ward’s you don’t know that one write it down there’s your homework lesson sears sears and roebuck you don’t know that one right and then there’s your homework lesson.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: kmart you don’t know it write it down there’s your homework lesson if I just use those for for the past 100 years.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If they understood stay courting your values keep your common language and understand what you’re doing Amazon and walmart wouldn’t exist today.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Because Amazon and walmart or the same thing as a woolworth they delivered a product that commodity.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: All that happened was the distribution just system needed to be evolved they didn’t evolve and they disappeared.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, again there’s really nothing new for the young viewers today it’s everything’s been out there you just it’s evolving so second is language first is language second is valued.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The third way you get through it is, then, how do you keep score number three write that down, how do you keep score.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: See that’s The other problem is, we have multiple scorecard for us organization, whether you call those you know performance reviews, or how you compensate.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Or what are your goals you know what you know how do you how do you assign post along the road life to know if you’re on track or ahead of schedule behind schedule.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know what do you bring your you know project managers in and a start doing Gantt charts and lean six Sigma and scrum teams, I mean Seattle these words in there.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But if you peel back it goes into the skeletal framework what’s your scorecard.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Because the scorecard gives everyone the lanes of how they’re going to be measured, what we need to do and how we contribute to the overall organization and it keeps everyone honest.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You don’t have scorecards you have 9000 different languages and interpretations of our values.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I would say third is going to be your scorecard for how do you compensate and how do you incentivize two elements, but it all deals with money to the day, how do you compensate and how do you and have you incentivize people because people will do.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What they’re incentivized to do, and this again takes us down another lane that can be very, very controversial.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But again just take a look in society and sometimes we step back and go, how is that these people do this, why is it they’re allowed to do this.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: what’s because that’s how they’re being compensated incentivized or that’s a scorecard that someone’s not holding them accountable to or that they’re using.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: which goes to the values they have or don’t have which goes to the language they’re using I mean all of this stuff’s interconnected wow.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And we can log on going.


David Horsager: There we go I love it Oh, my goodness we could go in Okay, so we got to talk a little bit because we you know you know all of our work around trust.


David Horsager: And how I mean we believe a lack of trust is the biggest cost of an organization of research that lack of trust the biggest expense every every.


David Horsager: thing of value is built on trust, and trust is always the leading indicator everything lags it’s not a leadership issue, we only follow a leader, not because of trusting us a dictator, which isn’t the leader.


David Horsager: Every only reason we buy or not is trust it’s not a sales issue it’s a trust issue unless it’s a commodity.


David Horsager: it’s not a marketing issue, the only way to amplify marketing message to increase trust, the only way to increase learning in a.


David Horsager: In a in a in a classroom is increase trust and the content, the teacher or the psychological safety your trust of the room, the only way to deal with you know.


David Horsager: on and on, we go innovation goes up and trust goes up because people share ideas and creativity and all that but you’ve thought about this you’ve talked about it, what say you.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: yeah it’s powerful i’m on the phone this morning at 6am Pacific time a coaching call with the C suite executive for a half a billion dollar.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Ad replying to mine in California, when I get done with this podcast i’ll be i’ll be on a you know zoom call with a CEO of a $4 billion financial group in North Carolina.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: what’s interesting is that part of the conversation with both of them is exactly David what you just said, the issues all do come back to trust.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So one organization to trust is not that anyone has done anything negative it’s at the C suite team have a lot of new players and they really haven’t had a chance to really spend time getting to know each other.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So again, you know the question i’d post to the executives when you know when you’re in you’re in when you’re at your desk and you’re faced with a challenge, or an issue whatever level, that means of challenging problem.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Who do you think of first in your head or who do you think of first to go to to get any counsel from.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So that’s gonna be a fun exercise to see what they write down because if the eight of them don’t have each other’s names written down on a sheet of paper.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That gives us a clue you’re not leveraging the DNA of the senior bench of the organization and that’s a trust issue so that’s one element.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The other organization of trust is because someone isn’t living up to the scorecard a second person isn’t dealing with some of their toxic employees.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A third person, in essence, is using double standards with who they keep who they’re not keeping who they’re promoting who they’re not so you have lots of different things going on that could impact trust.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I bring it back to this element and again, you know, I have some of the same DNA, so this may be a page out of your book because it’s a page out of my book and it’s neither one of David or Jeff, this is the page from someone that we met long time ago.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Think of trust as a bank account.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, again, if you want to have a relationship with anyone, you can you know, whatever it is you’re trying to do just think of it as a bank account when you think of a bank account you, I do have deposits and withdrawals out.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So if I want to establish trust the mistake we make, is it what David values as what creates trust may not be what Jeff mcgee values, you have to think of each person has their own bank account.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So if I want to establish more trust with Jeff mcgee, then what are the things that are a value to him, and if I do that it establishes trust so again I keep my word if i’m on time, etc, those are all deposits.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And again, we may sometimes not recognize we’re doing it overtly or even consciously but we’re always withdrawing from accounts so, then I take it to the next step, David I say, think of it this way.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every bank today works, the same way, for most people now, this may be bad, but this is really what they’re doing every bank, if you have a checking account or debit account.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: gives you overdraft protection and what that means is that, for some reason, David, if I have an account with david’s bank here.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He has some sort of a a reason to look at me because of my title of my stature my age or previous experience.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He gives me overdraft protection, which means I can bounce a couple of checks before he gets mad I can take some money out of the account with I don’t really have money in it and he’ll let it float for a little while but I got to put a deposit back in.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The danger of that is it we now take that into relationships and people sometimes forget, you need to make deposits, and if that doesn’t make sense I take it to another level with with clients with audience to say okay if you’re a parent raise your hand.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If you think about it, you have a relationship with all of your kids and the kids sometimes take more than they actually give yes, and do you give your kids overdraft protection, yes, you do.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Do you have any kids over the age of 21 still living at home, yes you’re giving them overdraft protection tell them to get the best out of the House and go get a job.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, then, we can make some jokes people get it so So the answer comes down to think of your relationship with a vendor with a client with a customer with a supplier, with a Co worker with your boss.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: With a virtual assistant, because the whole world is va now again as a relationship and so to me there’s four sides to healthy relationships in business.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So one side is trust that’s what you own another side is assertiveness a third side is motivation and the base of this House is communication.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So you’ve got to recognize where the deposits and all four of these and you’ve always got to be making deposits, not just making withdrawals, that is the way I try to get people to understand how you build these healthy relationships huge.


David Horsager: Huge I love it well with 20 bucks and a whole lot more i’m just going to make a couple of recommendations again get the new one trajectory code, but the managerial leadership Bible everybody managing needs that needs to read that.


David Horsager: anytime you lead anybody so.


David Horsager: let’s let’s let’s go, what are you learning these days what’s what’s top of your mind these days.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We have lots of buzzwords i’m finding coming out of this pandemic era globally.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That are not new words but maybe we’re getting some language on those so you know innovation is always been out if you’re an entrepreneur.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know that’s synonymous with innovation, so what i’m learning these days is really how to innovate everything I do.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To a level of four i’ve realized that people make changes, based upon one or a combination of only four therefore my customers are looking at me to how I can help them to.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: grow develop innovate, you know be cutting edge all those buzzwords so what i’m learning is how to innovate, based upon either better.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Faster different cost effective that’s the only four ways you’re going to change the behavior is better, faster different cost effective.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If I can show you that my whatever is more efficient for you, that might be the word faster then you’ll consider my idea my program coming to my meeting or etc.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So i’m pushing myself to innovate at a factor of four which is better, faster different more cost effective in everything I do.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m learning how to put profitability into not only relationships with business and i’m looking at profitability different not how do I get smarter with everything so at the end, I have some money.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m actually building profitability into the front side so let’s say I want to make 10 bucks or i’m going to generate $10 in revenue.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And I want to dollars a profitability out of that what i’m doing is i’m reversing the financial models, we were taught in business school.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And if I have 10 bucks i’m going to take the first $2 in profit and forgot, how do I then run everything on the next $8.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: and get my profitability squeeze out of that that eight i’m going i’m going Amazon on this everyone, so instead of b******g about these billion dollar companies.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: they’re playing within the rules are not breaking any laws, but what they’re doing I realized that their engineering their business after they’ve already decided what their profit, they want to be.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then that’s the money left over on the table, they run their business and they still squeeze profitability out the backside.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: As we look at that whole $10 and try to be as efficient as we can to maybe get two bucks at the end.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I want.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To box is my goal so innovation level for quick example.


David Horsager: What would be is there anything else, just a quick another example of something you’ve seen you know we both walked by leaders and walk with leaders in the last 16 months.


David Horsager: what’s what’s something you’re noticing about those leaders and organizations that have done, especially well over the last year and a half throughout the pandemic and this massive change.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: wow so now folks you everyone needs to shut up sit down and taking a because David just took you right to the juggler.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m charging clients 10s of thousands of dollars here the same Sir David, so I can’t believe you ask that one I actually have have have seen one incredibly obvious clear answer.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every business that’s thriving i’m not even just talking about getting by every business is thriving their senior leadership team has sales revenue generation in your pedigree.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every business is in trouble their leadership team does not have sales revenue generation inner pedigree, which is what I mean.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m here in Las Vegas at the time we’re recording this 85% of the restaurants in Las Vegas strip are still not open.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, year after the pandemic kids started we’ve been through it and things are now opening up and it’s because all of those restaurants have phenomenal celebrity chef names behind them as entrepreneurs.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But they don’t understand revenue generation, how to sell.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So again, what i’m now looking if I go back in history and look at businesses the C suite the majority of those executives, not all of them.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Somewhere in their lifespan their pedigree they were in sales marketing client development, you know outreach the revenue generation jobs.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And i’ve been talking about that for years in my leadership program my core program is called the leadership academy bathrooms I work with a business for one year, minimum.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Three of those 12 months we spend time drilling into revenue generation and some leaders they when we get there, they don’t understand why we’re talking about it well that’s not my space I go no yes it is.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And so cove it has become my world’s best case study to prove my point have been talking about.


David Horsager: I love it fascinating good stuff.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: wow then funds but that’s fast 30 minutes David.


David Horsager: that’s a fast 30 but you know you gotta give me what’s motivating you these days, by the way, from the.


David Horsager: You know you sold a big company.


David Horsager: After building a guide you know training development company you’re still speaking sharing writing what what’s motivating you these days.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Fine, finding real businesses and real people that really want to be successful and their egos not in the room yeah he goes always gonna be driving it.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But the ego is not the first thing I walked into a room and they’re just trying to create that legacy, you know how do you make.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A room a group people business better at the end of the day, then it was at the beginning of the day, and if you look at it, that perspective.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: that’s what’s fun, for me, I work with some phenomenal clients that truly are reminding me i’m having real life experiences if anyone’s following me on linkedin it’s only social media I play on you’re following me i’m learning success.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: made all over against from phenomenal clients, I have that are teaching me servant leadership in terms of what it really means innovation in terms of what it really means.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: taking care of your people in terms what it really means, but not being stupid about how you do it, though, so that’s what gets me excited.


David Horsager: So let’s let’s get personal for just a few minutes before we wrap this thing together what when you think about it, at least when we talk about leadership.


David Horsager: You know, we talked about you got to lead yourself first what are some things you’re doing maybe it’s routines habits or ways you’re leaving yourself you’re leading so many others walking alongside so many others, I know, for me, in coming.


David Horsager: You know walking with somebody senior leaders it’s easy to take a lot of their weight and their challenges and and all these issues, but if we’re going to be doing that we got to do some things to keep our own maybe it’s physical health mental health, what are you doing.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So great questions and you’re right people come to you and I.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: strategically and surgically to help them, whether we’re just on their you know consulting retainer list so when they have a challenge, they know we’re in their pocket.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Whether we are really you know integrated into the organization so you’re my level that’s a great question so for me, I think the first answer is going to be the word discipline.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You have to have the discipline today finish that sentence anyway, you want, so my discipline is I get up around 430 every morning.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: My first business engagement activities going to be by 6am every morning because the world is global and 24 seven.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So the discipline to be where my fun clients live in be there when and where they need me, but then I also do plug in you know Jeff time you know again for me.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know i’ve got a brother loves motorcycles I don’t trust two wheels so i’ll just you know drive my convertible.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So for me it’s it’s going out for a drive and just enjoying Mother Nature what god’s blessed us with, I mean that absolutely may drive some people crazy.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But that’s a part of my discipline, I always go for therapy drive every day or every couple of days.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I do exercise, I mean i’m not the athlete I was 40 years ago 30 years ago so i’m not even about to misrepresent pretend.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But I do a little exercise every day absolutely but it’s discipline, I have an accountability partner holds me accountable to these elements, this is i’m an accountability partner and I help hold people accountable.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So it’s discipline its commitment and it’s focused what’s your vision and where are you wanting to go and what are the clarity of those goals.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And are you continuously working towards us, I think the mindset of some people yeah I want to retire one day.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m not a subscriber of that, I think, for some people, maybe so but I think the planet is shifted and for some people, you and I.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m just going to assume into this if i’m wrong David correct me but i’m assuming that you and I were this way before the pandemic what the beauty of the pandemic has done.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: good and bad is it sniffed out and put the spotlight on a lot of low performers and now they can’t hide.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And it’s given company’s ability to do with didn’t have the guts to be before the pandemic, which is a now can you know they had the ability to fire a ton of people and be legally, you know get away with it.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But it’s also put the spotlight on businesses and people to reevaluate what they want, out of life and what they really want to do and and what’s really important, and I think a lot of things that were.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know in play, the year before the pandemic, some of them are going to probably cease to exist because people really have had a chance to evaluate.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And so, with that back to you know the last response to your question of me I think for for me, and you, and some people, the word retirement is never going to happen, not because we can’t.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I think for me at least and i’m going to assume you know for our viewers as much as i’ve interacted with David and.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And we’ve been at conferences, where we spoke together, not on the same stage but you’re in one room and on the other, and i’ve come in and i’ve played students to learn from you many times as well.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I love what i’m doing so, as long as God allows me to get vertical every day i’m doing this because I love it at some level as long as I can, and I think that’s kind of how I rebooted you know the the the next generation of me.


David Horsager: One piece of advice in a sentence.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: legacy, you are your own legacy, what is it that you want the second generation of people that you’re touching to know about you, if you’re a parent.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Your kids are not your legacy change chapter challenge your paradigm your kids are not your legacy it’s what your kids do in who your kids touch that next generation is really your legacy.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So for me what’s my legacy is not just what I do but it’s the people I can engage, what do they do with it and how do they affect that next person they touch.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every day, his legacy if this was your last day on the planet, what would the videotape from birth today show you’ve accomplished or did you completely waste away the time that was given to you.


David Horsager: good advice good advice hey before the final question it’s been the trusted leader show all the show notes finding Jeff Dr jeffries books.


David Horsager: And more about all the work he’s doing performance magazine and more you can find that trusted leader show.com everything will be there in a bio on Dr Jeff today he’s an amazing guy I hope we get it do we get to see each other, this summer yeah.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We will we will both be at a couple conferences, the summer that on my calendar to so.


David Horsager: All right.


David Horsager: I look i’m looking forward to that hey before we go Dr Jeffrey what where can people find out about you Where would you if we they went directly to you this all be in the show notes, but give a give a quick How can people find you directly.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you two ways one just is my name is spelled on the screen so at Jeffrey mcgee.com.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Is my talent development company, what I do B2B and B2C and a lot of resources on there, you can consume.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: My media company is professional performance magazine.com professional performance magazine.com every quarter, I do a publication for now 30 years.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We go out and get phenomenal global personalities to write articles on pure performance achievement success we don’t do feature stories on.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: stupid questions about what’s going on, just as you’ve done today you’ve asked hard hitting questions and I love it.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So it’s phenomenal we’ve had the last four presidents and states have written, for me, global leaders pro athletes celebrities military generals New York Times bestselling authors Indian tribal chiefs, etc.


David Horsager: And even David or soccer.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: and David something.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We all got that open invitation anytime you send an article you’re in baby.


David Horsager: All right, thank you so it’s the trusted leader show Dr different menu who’s a leader you trust and why.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know i’m not going to answer that one because no matter how you say it we’re going to get in trouble so i’ll answer it this way, the person you follow should truly walk the talk and that’s the problem we have a lot of people answer that but but it’s too easy to say I you know.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Warren Buffett I had a chance to interview him years ago phenomenal person Warren Buffett well what’s that really mean so you know I could say oprah winfrey or I could say.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, a name no one’s ever heard of, so I would really challenge our viewers on that one who do you really trust it truly does influence how you think and feel i’ve got a lot of those things but that’s a powerful question you asked.


David Horsager: Well, I think that’s that’s the point of it too is it’s not about them it’s really about how do we become.


David Horsager: A trusted leader and not just a trusted leader, we talked about we call that the show the book and everything else, but is it better to be trusted or trustworthy Of course you can manipulate.


David Horsager: The eight pillars of trust or other things to look trust without actually being worthy of and what we’re really going for at the end of the day is trust worthiness you know.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: zig zig or would be the name, if I have to put it out there because Ziegler.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: For those of you don’t know him, you can Google and but I was sitting in a workshop in Charlotte North Carolina many years ago, the gentleman comes and sits down next to me in a suit.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: have no idea who he is he’s obviously at that time mathematical old enough to be my father doing a program the person front calls on him.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And he starts to answer and there’s only one singular voice on the planet, since you started answering on the Holy moly i’m sitting next to one of the gods of management leadership trust integrity and from that came almost a 20 year.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: mentorship friendship, he wrote the foreword to to my books, he wrote in every issue my magazine before he passed away.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He reached out to me, and he sent me a zip file of 77 articles that have never been published, that he gifted to me so in every issue my magazine, the last page last article still from the grave zero so if you’re gonna push me for a name.


Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Is a man of integrity i’ll go with him.


David Horsager: You know, he doesn’t do it all the time, but I was fortunate to have him, you know meet him several times before he left for it became friends of the family and all that before he before he passed away, but he also endorsed my first book trust edge and just honored honored by that so.


David Horsager: Well, this has been a.


David Horsager: whole lot of fun there’s a lot more wisdom we’re going to have to bring back def Dr Jennifer Mike you’ve never bought anything buddy back, but we’re gonna have to bring you back sometime before.


David Horsager: logging and i’m looking forward to seeing you this summer and so that has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 36: David Newman on How Leaders Can Build A Compelling Personal Brand

In this episode, David sits down with David Newman, Best-Selling Author, Speaker, and Creator of the Expert Profit Formula Mentoring Program, to discuss why marketing really comes down to personal credibility, and how leaders can build a compelling personal brand.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Bio:
David Newman, CSP is a member of the NSA Million Dollar Speakers Group. He is the author of the business bestsellers “Do It! Marketing” and “Do It! Speaking: 77 Instant-Action Ideas to Market, Monetize, and Maximize Your Expertise” (HarperCollins, 2020.) David is also the creator of the Expert Profit Formula mentoring program where he helps thought leaders market their smarts and make a bigger dent in the universe. Free training, tools, and downloads are waiting for you at www.doitmarketing.com

David’s Links:
Website: https://doitmarketing.com/
“Do It! Marketing” by David Newman: https://amzn.to/2Ud0PLS
FREE Consulting Revenue Roadmap Masterclass: https://doitmarketing.com/webinar
FREE Do It! Marketing Manifesto: https://doitmarketing.com/manifesto
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidjnewman/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/dnewman
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ThoughtLeadershipMarketing

Key Quotes:
1. “Its not about doing the work. Its about getting the work.”
2. “Marketing really comes down to building a level of personal credibility.”
3. “Corporate leadership is personal leadership.”
4. “We want to hear from our leaders.”
5. “You need to have a face and a voice and a pen.”
6. “The more that you communicate, the more people will start to like you and trust you.”
7. “Most forward thinking CEOs dig their well before they’re thirsty.”
8. “Marketing needs to be easy, effortless, and enjoyable.”
9. “Never assign yourself marketing or sales responsibilities that you hate.”
10. “You have to look at business as everything is disposable.”
11. “We’re not married to anything except our clients’ success.”
12. “Forget about what you want to sell and focus like a crazy person on what your clients and customers want to buy.”
13. “Action eliminates fear.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Do It! Marketing” by David Newman: https://amzn.to/2Ud0PLS
“The Business of Expertise” by David C. Baker: https://amzn.to/3y2Irny
FREE Consulting Revenue Roadmap Masterclass: https://doitmarketing.com/webinar
FREE Do It! Marketing Manifesto: https://doitmarketing.com/manifesto

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager we have a special guest today.


David Horsager: He is the best selling author of a few books his newest book do it marketing we’re going to talk a little bit about that and we sit together and million dollar speakers group and some other groups.


David Horsager: And association groups that i’m thrilled to be a part of but brilliant marketer and how that ties to credibility and trust we’re going to talk about it before we do welcome Mr David Newman.


David Newman: Thank you, David great to be here and I love the furniture, you have in here.


David Horsager: Thank you, there we go let’s uh let’s start with this, though let’s go back to the entrepreneurial journey tell us a couple things we don’t know about David Newman where’d you start how did you get going.


David Newman: Sure, well, I actually started a college pre MED I failed out of pre MED because I couldn’t pass chemistry physics and calculus failed all those in the same semester.


David Newman: decided to switch to drama and you can imagine the conversation there with my parents hey i’m not going to be a doctor, but i’m going to go into the theater.


David Newman: And so I did that actually have an MFA have a graduate degree in theater did theater for four years in New York City tough to make money at that.


David Newman: And I started adjunct teaching at my college at my graduate school.


David Newman: and a friend of mine says hey David you’re singing pretty good at this teaching thing you can do that for companies and that’s called corporate training and maybe you can make a living doing that.


David Newman: So that started my 10 year corporate training and consulting career that was 1992 to 2002 2002 I went out on my own.


David Newman: I said well how hard can this be I know how to train, I know how to coach I know how to consult.


David Newman: And, as I quickly found out, and I know the David you found out the same way it’s not about doing the work it’s about getting the work and I struggled for years, I mean I made every mistake in the book, I made the good ones twice.


David Newman: And I finally figured out some things and then my my corporate training speaking consulting took off, and that was about the first four or five years.


David Newman: of my business and then friends of mine started coming to me and saying hey David Can I take you to breakfast can we have coffee, can we have lunch guys pick your brain.


David Newman: And I never thought that that was anything more than just being a nice person and helping others because they were good people they had good questions I had fun answering the questions.


David Newman: A career consultant friend of mine who’s still a friend to this day we’re having one of these breakfast meetings where he’s asking me all these great questions and i’m riffing and ranting.


David Newman: He says, you know you should do this for a living and I said, do what eat bacon and eggs, he says no, no, you should help consultants and trainers and speakers, and you know executives go out and build their brand and build a business and blah blah blah blah blah.


David Newman: and David I laughed at him I was like yeah no no way i’m going back the Bank of America and wells fargo and PNC bank and Q vc and Microsoft and IBM, and these are my clients back in the 1990s.


David Newman: I am not going to go into the entrepreneurial coaching and consulting world he said no, no, listen, you are really gifted at this, what if I put a small group together and we just meet in your living room.


David Newman: I said listen i’ll do it just to help you and just for a little bit of fun, but I said i’m have to charge your money and I charge them coffee and bagel money, and so we met for four weeks in my living room I charge them like 50 bucks for all four weeks.


David Newman: that’s coffee and bagel money and we had some juice.


David Newman: Also, and I was having more fun and I was having more satisfaction and fulfillment and enjoyment.


David Newman: In my living room with these for consultants, then I was having with my big corporate training and consulting clients is around 2008 2008 I said wait a minute.


David Newman: there’s like a little positive tap from the universe here, this is not an accident, I need to pay attention to this.


David Newman: And that was literally the day the fourth the fourth session that fourth Tuesday morning when I knew I would miss these folks more than I had missed any of my corporate clients sorry corporate clients.


David Newman: And I started to turn down that corporate side of my business I started to turn up.


David Newman: Eventually the business that we have today, which is exactly helping consultants and trainers and coaches and executives build their own personal brand start a business grow a business get more clients have more fun.


David Newman: But it was it was a total accident, and it was a total random left turn back in 2008.


David Horsager: And you know we talked about something this is fun, because you know you know I started in the basement with black mold no windows bathroom or kitchen of Clara miller’s and we got to use her as thankfully and that’s how Lisa and I.


David Horsager: started and for for two years, we live there and thankfully, things have changed but and there was a lot of shifts and turns along the way.


David Horsager: But you know you said something about what marketing is to some people, and then you talked about that and it, I think it fits really well with what we do, out of the Institute tell us about defining marketing in certain ways.


David Newman: Well, I think, marketing really comes down to building a level of personal credibility.


David Newman: That a do know what you’re talking about be do do what you say and say what you do and again trust we’re talking to the King of trust here so it’s very congruent.


David Newman: With what you’re teaching and what you’re you’re helping your teams and companies with, but I really think that comes down to a personal level.


David Newman: When people talk about building a personal brand that phrase, by the way, makes me crazy because it’s got a million different definitions and no one really knows what that is.


David Newman: I think, building a personal brand comes down to one thing and one thing only, which is building your personal credibility.


David Horsager: Building your credibility is pretty much equal to trust when we said it earlier before the show you said hey.


David Horsager: way, most people need to think about marketing is building trust.


David Horsager: The way they.


David Horsager: might think about in companies is credibility, so this is what we’re doing, and you know this took me a lot, because I was kinda like doesn’t ever just want this trust that.


David Horsager: I actually have to share it we actually have to market it, we have to people don’t even get it unless they’ve seen it several times funny thing about the book my new book that came out trusted leader came out just a few weeks ago, and this.


David Horsager: I think a mutual friend of yours actually saw it, I didn’t know him yet, but he’s in our circle, a little bit and he saw a lot of my friends share, and he said.


David Horsager: boy this guy has a lot of friends sharing this book and, finally, he texts me wanting to be you know Facebook friends and said I said how many times, seeing it that it actually take to buy it.


David Horsager: And he said five and you and I both heard you have to see something six to eight times, or whatever before you buy it or connected or whatever well if we want to change the world if we really believe in our message.


David Horsager: People actually do have to see it, they have to hear about it, if they’re even going to know about it to trust it right so so i’m a CEO let’s say.


David Horsager: And, and I need to gain more credibility, I need to gain more trust it might take some visibility how how might I do that from your thinking around do it marketing.


David Newman: Sure well you know, one of the things that we we teach is a personal branding strategy which is really a credibility strategy that we call three PR.


David Newman: Three PR is an acronym for professional personalized public relations.


David Newman: So three p’s one are personalized professional public relations, this has nothing to do with a public relations agency, it has nothing to do with your corporate communications group it’s got nothing to do with anything it’s a three legged stool.


David Newman: leg number one is speaking it’s a speaking strategy so you’re the CEO.


David Newman: How often are you onstage on camera on zoom in front of the people that you want to build credibility with.


David Newman: Because we can no longer hide behind email, we can no longer hide behind closed door meetings, we can no longer hide behind memos, we can no longer hide behind corporate doublespeak.


David Newman: Corporate leadership is personal leadership and personal leadership is personal credibility and you need to display that on a regular basis.


David Newman: In front of the troops in front of internal audiences in front of external audiences in front of customers partners vendors franchisees whatever it is, in your world.


David Newman: How much are you leveraging a speaking strategy, which means on video on webinars on video clips in the media, all of these different things again internal external public and private so that’s like number one.


David Newman: let’s.


David Horsager: let’s just touch on something interesting here what we found from the research is.


David Horsager: Actually, something interesting that did happen there’s positives many negatives in the pandemic, please do want to point out and that’s true, but one of the positives in the pandemic is suddenly you saw CEOs.


David Horsager: get out of the ivory tower and be talking on zoom and the cat jumped on the you know, on the on the keyboard and the.


David Horsager: four year old grand in their undies behind them and all of a sudden, we humanize the ivory tower and actually a whole lot of good came out of that so number one is speaking your trips, it could be right through zoom.


David Horsager: tell us how you.


David Horsager: How do you do that authentically give us an example of something I can do tomorrow morning as well.


David Horsager: To my troops.


David Newman: You know I think the the video thought of the day, the video thought of the day, and it can be anything you can literally what I tell my executives to do is grab a post it note.


David Newman: jot down three quick ideas that you can spend 30 to 45 seconds each with a motivational message, a leadership message an update a new product, a new program a new customer success story.


David Newman: Something that you’re proud of something that you’re excited about something that the entire company can really start to rally behind flip on the camera.


David Newman: Look at your posts that notes, sometimes we even put the post it note right next to the webcam so you don’t need to look around or look down at your notes or look awkward.


David Newman: And then just spontaneously riff on those three big pieces of great news or exciting updates or future possibilities, where the company’s going.


David Newman: You know something new, something exciting a customer success story any of those kinds of things, two or three things.


David Newman: Video is going to be one or two minutes long.


David Newman: You are not going to like it you’re not going to like it at all oh my lighting wasn’t right Oh, the camera wasn’t quite perfect.


David Newman: you’re going to want to send this to corporate communications hey could you guys and gals clean this up, could you put in some bumpers could you put in some music, could you put the corporate logo up in the corner.


David Newman: i’m going to encourage you i’m gonna beg you don’t do that don’t do that humanize I love what David you just said, you have a human moment in front of the camera.


David Newman: And then you start to have multiple regular consistent human moments in front of the camera and you will transform into the trusted leader that you’ve always wanted to be.


David Horsager: So number one is speaking and, by the way to back this up from the newest research our trust outlook research global study.


David Horsager: 92% of people would trust their senior leaders more if they are more transparent about their mistakes, not just transparent but transparent about the mistakes.


David Horsager: share your mistakes and where you’re headed it might help humanize it and people trust you more I love the idea all stuff just get on there don’t worry about it so much share constant Where are you going what’s what’s a highlight what’s a positive.


David Horsager: Fantastic I think T mobile does this well right the CEO from T mobile there’s some people that are actually doing this well on a big scale and people are seeing Oh, this is, this is a human doing this number one on the stool was speaking.


David Horsager: authentically number two.


David Newman: yeah number two is publishing and when I say publishing people always get freaked out like oh my gosh.


David Newman: Do I have to write a 200 page business book like David horse soccer it’s like no we’re not talking about publishing a book.


David Newman: Although, eventually, you may want to go there, but that’s a whole separate conversation we’re talking about publish your writing.


David Newman: publish it could be a short blog it could be a daily update it could be a post that goes on your Intranet.


David Newman: But again don’t get the corporate speech writer to write it don’t get your corporate communications folks and Bob authentic writing from the heart right it’s like writing a personal letter.


David Newman: If the President of the United States can grab some stationery grab a fountain pen and jot down four or five sentences.


David Newman: and write a personal note, to someone who’s important to them trust me, you can write something that’s important to people who are important to you.


David Newman: So the whole concept of it’s again it’s a communication strategy and it’s a transparency strategy.


David Newman: We want to hear from our leaders want to hear from our leaders on video, we want to hear from our leaders in the media, we want to hear from our leaders internally and externally.


David Newman: When you write you boost your expertise, when you write you boost your transparency, and when you write you are the best face and voice of your company that there is now a lot of CEOs, especially the ones that might be more introverted they go oh.


David Newman: This is not about me I don’t want to hog the spotlight, we have a lot of smart people who work here we have a research department of sales department of marketing department of production department of engineering department.


David Newman: They should do the writing letting me shine the spotlight on them.


David Newman: Well, you know what I would agree with you, so let’s shine the spotlight on them, but that still does not let you off the hook.


David Newman: You, as the President you as the CEO you as the founder you, as the Chairman, you need to have a face and a voice and a pen and the pen is mightier than the sword, and the more that you write the more that you communicate the more people will start to like you and trust you.


David Horsager: I like this, so one one comment that comes to mind here is one of the great books, I read actually in college was the book right to learn.


David Horsager: And the argument is what basically when you write you learn you solidify you clarify you you become more expert.


David Horsager: And I can tell you every book i’ve written every time I published an article I get clear when I write it down it gets more.


David Horsager: I start to see even gaps gaps in a in a research argument when i’m writing i’m like that doesn’t make sense what’s really you know really here so right to learn so number one is speaking this is for gaining credibility as a.


David Horsager: Anybody but let’s take a senior leader, to be more than three PR professional personalized personalized that’s authentic and public relations professional personalized public relations three legged stool number one is speaking number two is publishing number three is.


David Newman: Number three is social media and as soon as I say, oh CEO should be involved in social media I know heads are exploding around the world heads.


David Newman: Are floating around the code.


David Newman: I don’t have time it’s nonsense our prospects aren’t There we have an entire team dedicated to this why in the world should I waste my time.


David Newman: Just like authenticity and transparency and credibility are built via speaking and they’re built via writing.


David Newman: When you say, this is a message from the CEO right, this is on your personal linkedin profile it’s not the company page is not a press release it’s not in the annual report.


David Newman: This is what does Suzanne think right now, today this morning.


David Newman: I wanted to write to you about an important development in our industry, I wanted to write to you about an important development at our company.


David Newman: I want to write to you about something that is super exciting that’s in the future of our entire industry and here’s where our company is doing to take part in that, and even to lead the conversation and that.


David Newman: Because the social media component that builds your spread ability.


David Newman: Right so we’ve talked about authenticity we’ve talked about credibility now we need to amplify and magnify that with your social media channels and again, not the company’s channels, the CEOs personal profile the CEOs Facebook page the CEOs linkedin profile.


David Newman: I even hesitate to say this because of all the social media backlash but yes, the CEOs instagram and Twitter accounts so put good energy could put put good personal energy into social media and it will be an amplifier and a magnifier of your leadership.


David Horsager: Is it best I mean I talked to say I interviewed someone yesterday and they said I just the only place I am is linkedin and he just does linkedin our biggest you know where I am predominantly for.


David Horsager: Our work is linkedin although personally have a you know Facebook is is easy, but do you have to do, I feel like.


David Horsager: You have to do all of these Is it too much to the split and be all over the place, and you know, have to manage all this stuff some people are like you know mandy we don’t want people to waste all this time just putting stuff out what.


David Newman: Totally totally, so I think, as far as.


David Newman: The main mothership for most B2B companies and most B2B CEOs it is totally going to be linkedin.


David Newman: But then, where do you amplify and magnify and share that linkedin content and there’s the this doesn’t even have to be the CEO in phase two phase two is take that original linkedin content.


David Newman: And do a series of tweets do a series of instagram posts, make a series of images or mediums.


David Newman: That drive people back to that original linkedin content so you’ve got the beacon and then you’ve got the outposts the beacon, I totally agree with you, David the beacon needs to be living on linkedin.

David Newman: But the outposts right all of the kind of ecosystem around the company’s social media or even other executives your whole C suite social media, they should be mentioning and referring and pointing back to that piece of CEO content that lives originally on linkedin.


David Horsager: So this is great three PR and if i’m going to gain credibility with my team i’ve got to be speaking to them i’ve got to be publishing giving them authentic.


David Horsager: You know content or authentic thoughts and i’ve got to deal with social media whether I, like it or not, what’s changed in the pandemic around marketing.


David Newman: Well, I guess it’s like the old saying that when the tide goes out, you can see who’s not wearing a bathing suit.


David Newman: And there are companies that have just been riding a wave or been complacent or gotten a little bit comfortable and arrogant.


David Newman: And this has been a tremendous wake up call it’s been a tremendous wake up call, I think, for two kinds of companies, the kinds that had you know catastrophic slow downs, and the other kind that had incredible hyper growth.


David Newman: Some companies realized that you know what we weren’t ready for this incredible hyper growth and some companies were in some companies weren’t.


David Newman: As professional consultants as professional trusted advisors David, I think you and I would agree.


David Newman: Most forward thinking CEOs dig their well before they’re thirsty they prepare their leadership team they prepare their sales team they prepare their research and development team to be agile.


David Newman: and responsive and ready, whether things go up down or sideways, so there are strategic plans in place, there are contingency plans in place, there are culture plans in place.


David Newman: Because the pandemic, both for both of these kinds of companies i’m sure you’ve studied Disney and you can have some great examples companies going through hyper growth.


David Newman: One of the first victims of hyper growth is the fantastic culture, they used to have when everything was under control.


David Newman: One of the big victims of a catastrophic slow down or implosion is all we had a great culture until everything hit the fan, and we had the lead, two thirds of our people go.


David Newman: So the way that we behave during the boom times does not is not congruent with the way that we laid people off or had to make cuts are treated, are you know low paid workers frontline workers, etc.


David Newman: here’s the problem with that people remember and the media remembers and these employment websites like glassdoor.com they remember.


David Newman: How you reacted during this crisis and that corporate reputation and I know David you teach this and preach this all the time.


David Newman: takes years or decades to build and you can lose it in a heartbeat one bad decision one bad round of layoffs one bad choice one bad media interview.


David Newman: And you got a lot of ground to recover, so I think what what has happened is the tide has receded and they’re really market leading companies that have the trusted leaders in place good times or bad.


David Newman: Happy or sad rain or shine feel like it or not, those companies are now held up as the paragons.


David Newman: And the companies that sort of screwed up and we’re throwing some things under the rug sweeping some things under the rug little corporate baggage is not pretty to look at.


David Newman: The word is out and you’re going to have a tough time getting talent you’re gonna have a tough time leading your industry, unless you fix some of those trust issues.


David Horsager: So let’s take this you know one thing you said in the book and I like that do it market like we need to do things right, so, so I think.


David Horsager: Somebody talked to recently, you might know him Dr Jeff mcgee he said I said, what are you noticing about leaders, the dead well um it’s the you know.


David Horsager: it’s the pandemic and those that didn’t was there a difference that you saw and I saw some things and we compared those but everybody hears heard what I think about it, but Dr Jeffrey said he said those leadership teams their executive teams.


David Horsager: All had a sales and marketing pedigree.


David Horsager: Those that did well in this time they had a sales and they had to do it, they had a you got to have a bias for actually.


David Horsager: sales and marketing, not a bias for process, not a bias, for some of these other things they had other bias doesn’t mean we don’t need all people in all things but they had to have this pedigree, and this is biased, but that kind of gets the core of your book let’s do it, but you also almost.


David Horsager: Contrary say in your book marketing needs to be easy effortless and enjoyable.


David Horsager: So we got to do it, but I think a lot of people don’t because they feel like Oh, my goodness, now I gotta write this I gotta be on this i’m going to get the video for this, how do we make it easy effortless and enjoyable.


David Newman: Sure, I think this is especially important for for executive teams and leadership teams, where they can do this selectively.


David Newman: And here’s how to make the selection, if you love writing if you’re a natural writer.


David Newman: I would use writing strategies.


David Newman: If you hate writing and we talked to so many people Dave I know you love to write I love to write, but there are people oh I hate to write I the less writing I do the better, you know I hire people to write for me i’m not going to write anything.


David Newman: But if you love speaking, then you should use speaking strategies and I don’t mean necessarily public speaking paid speaking the kind that you do the kind that I do.


David Newman: i’m talking about a beyond video that’s a speaking strategy be a guest on podcasts that is a speaking strategy.


David Newman: Use the live streaming platforms like linkedin live YouTube live Facebook live that those are all speaking strategies.


David Newman: If you love technology and you’re kind of getting out maybe you’re a tech CEO and you love all the technology.


David Newman: Ways of marketing great forget about speaking forget about writing use technology strategies.


David Newman: If you don’t like technology but boy boy, do you get energy from going out to the marketplace hanging out with customers hanging out with prospects meeting new people shaking hands and kissing babies.


David Newman: And you love networking and meeting people use networking strategy both online and offline networking strategies so there’s going to be something that you enjoy.


David Newman: Whether it is speaking or writing or technology or networking or relationship building or any of these different things, never assign yourself marketing or sales responsibilities that you hate.


David Newman: Because that’s going to be drudgery and you’re never going to get around to them it’s always going to be number 17 on your priority list.


David Horsager: This is a key never assigned sales and marketing strategies that you hate.


David Newman: yeah.


good idea.


David Newman: I mean, especially right C suite leaders Presidents CEOs owners founders they they are, they are selectively engaging in this why wouldn’t you choose things that you enjoy and things that are fun for you.


David Newman: You have a whole marketing department, let them take care of the day to day we’re talking about your personal brand communication that’s your version of your personal brand marketing your leadership brand marketing should be things that you enjoy.


David Horsager: let’s go back to personal let’s go back to Dave Newman, as an entrepreneur and there’s ups and downs in the entrepreneurial journey.


David Horsager: What woody what are you learning now and what did you learn it tell us a little bit more of the challenges of the journey and how you overcame to become the kind of the success, you are today as an entrepreneur.


David Newman: I think you have to look at business as everything is is gonna sound weird but it’s okay people might might remember it.


David Newman: Everything is disposable everything can go if something is not working products programs services departments functions.


David Newman: programs, whatever it might be everything is disposable.


David Newman: We say in our business that we’re not married to anything except our clients success so if we need to trash our entire service line our entire product line and go, you know what.


David Newman: Before march of 2020 it was awesome it was great now it’s completely irrelevant and everything.


David Newman: had to go literally everything had to go between March and June of 2020 we reinvented this entire business.


David Newman: We let a whole bunch of people go, we brought a whole bunch of new people in let a whole bunch of products, services and programs go from.


David Newman: Multi six figures, a month down to zero per month because they were no longer serving our clients.


David Newman: We had to boot up over the course of that three months, a whole suite of new programs products and services that did not exist before March of 2020.


David Newman: And we hit our stride and it sounds weird to say this, but 2020 was our highest earning year our highest revenue year our highest profit year 2021 so far as tracking about 1.5 to 1.7 times of what 2020 is.


David Newman: Because we are so hell bent pardon my French we are so heck bent.


David Newman: On a client success that whatever it takes to give our clients, the outcome that they pay us for that’s the business that we’re in and we teach this, by the way.


David Newman: The way the soundbite around this David is forget about what you want to sell and focus like a crazy person on what your clients and customers want to buy and that’s going to keep you relevant that’s going to keep you valuable and that’s going to keep the checks flowing in the door.


David Horsager: Forget about what you want to sell and focus on what they want to buy.


David Newman: Like a crazy person like a maniac.


David Horsager: love it.


David Newman: I was watching a detective show and I forget which one it was, but it was it was a detective.


David Newman: sergeant who was braiding one of his one of his detectives he says, where was he at 930 i’m not sure why he went into the Bank, we have video of him going into the bank what was he doing in the back, while i’m not 100% sure.


David Newman: He gets into this detectives face, he says listen, you need to follow this guy you need that every single move every single muscle, I want to know how this guy likes his eggs and that’s the punch line you, we need to know how our ideal prospects and customers, how do they like their eggs.


David Newman: sunny side up side of bacon Thank you.


David Newman: That is what that’s the level of intimacy that we need to have if we’re going to be a trusted advisor or a trusted leader, we have to know how our prospects and customers, like their eggs.


David Horsager: We got to know how they like their eggs okay here’s a fun one for you, you know we moved out to this cool farm.


David Horsager: grateful for the lake you couple horses, we have it just an hour and we can’t find it, you know, we had a name this place.


David Horsager: What what’s what what who are we as Westerners and we have a mission statement as a family, and we have some of the other things you know for kids and whatever but finally my daughter that just.


David Horsager: For kids two daughters two sons, but she just said, I think it’s sunny side up farms and our farm because it just brings joy and we start talking about it that you know egg represents life and all these things, so there you go, we had the stamp where the sign sunny side up.


David Horsager: It just became that about two weeks ago that’s going to funny.


David Newman: And remember, everything is better with bacon.


David Horsager: No it’s perfect no doubt perfect okay let’s get to you personally, as we bring this bring this, all together, you know great leaders tend to lead themselves well and it’s not always easy, but that can be everything from.


David Horsager: Health emotionally physically relational financially mentally what are you doing any routines that you’re doing to to lead yourself well as far as routines or tips that you would have as a personal leader.


David Newman: Well, it sounds like a cliche but it’s a cliche because it works and it’s proven by many millions of people.


David Newman: Every morning I wake up and I have a morning routine and this is part reading and part thinking and part journaling and.


David Newman: I think that a CEOs most important task is sometimes sitting in your office with your feet up on your desk staring blankly out the window.


David Newman: Thinking time strategic time Marin nation time percolation time.


David Newman: And if we don’t take time for that all the business and all the tasks just start to pile up in a meaningless pile so I I make it a habit to do that marrow donation percolation personal reading personal journaling first thing most mornings.


David Horsager: I love it what’s your favorite what’s your favorite thing to read right now book resource, what do you liking, the these days.


David Newman: I well So besides your book, of course, which is awesome picked up a really great book by a guy named David see baker it’s called the business of expertise.


David Newman: And it speaks to the business that we’re in but it’s also some great kind of business philosophies.


David Newman: And you know he’s he talks about the consulting business specifically and the the design business but there’s so many nuggets and so many great lessons in that book for any CEO.


David Horsager: love it what’s the biggest hope for the future Where are you headed, what do you hope for in the next few years.


David Newman: You know I am seeing i’m seeing a revival in entrepreneurship, I am seeing.


David Newman: This entrepreneurship is moving out of that well I couldn’t get a corporate job right I couldn’t go back into my corporate job, so I guess i’ll have to settle for this.


David Newman: There are there is now such a ground swell of excitement and energy and optimism in the entrepreneurial community that where it’s going to be riding that wave, I think, for the next 10 plus years.


David Horsager: I love it nothing like entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship, nothing like taking the risk nothing like the excitement not like.


David Horsager: Having your at your hand and your destiny and being able to be mission all about what you care about I mean can’t think of anything what.


David Horsager: Somebody said that to me is that when you get to talk about some other than trust, I mean you know you talk about this trust what’s your next thing like.


David Horsager: I can’t think I can’t think of anything i’d be about other than trust the way we serve our clients might be different, but.


David Horsager: that’s fantastic hey where can we find out more you know you’ve got the do it series of books do it marketing I recommend everybody, but what’s what’s it will put all this in the show notes.


David Horsager: trusted leader show calm ever again, but you can find everything about David Newman and his books and other great offerings if you’re interested in more amping up your credibility as a senior leader or an individual.


David Horsager: You can find out more, but where would you recommend the first place, we go.


David Newman: Sure well to two things both free on our website, the first thing is, we have some free web training that’s it do it marketing.com slash webinar and, if you want to grab our 37 page manifesto this part marketing and sales and part mindset that’s that do it marketing.com slash manifesto.


David Horsager: will get that in the show notes Thank you so much for that, before I asked my final question any last words of wisdom.


David Newman: You know, a mantra that i’ve lived by, for I would say the last 10 years or so and and this This obviously, is where the whole do it, marketing and the whole do it concept comes from.


David Newman: The it’s a three word mantra and the three word monster, I sometimes go back to in my darkest hours action eliminates fear.


David Newman: Action eliminates fear when you’re stuck when you’re scared when you’re not sure what the right move is just make a move.


David Newman: You know, spend as little time as possible in hesitation and indecision and action eliminates fear and actions, where you get the data to make good decisions we never going to get data sitting, you know paralyzed and stuck deer in headlights so action eliminates fear.


David Horsager: Where did that come from is that somebody is that to attributed to anybody, you know.


David Newman: You know I I don’t know it just kind of came to me, one day, is a three word thing it very well might be somebody.


David Newman: Out there, I have no idea it’s just something that i’ve adopted as my personal fortune cookie jar.


David Horsager: it’s David Newman made him late it is.


David Horsager: and Martin Luther King.


yeah.


David Horsager: All right, my Angelo They all said it.


David Horsager: They all knew that it is time.


Exactly.


David Horsager: Well, this has been a treat I counted just a privilege to call you my friend i’m looking forward to seeing you this summer at something we’re going to be at together it’s a privilege to be able to be a part of, but it is the trusted leader show So who is a leader you trust and why.


David Newman: i’m going to have to nominate my CEO whose name is Charlie pause neck, and he is he is.


David Newman: utterly calm completely irrational totally balanced incredibly generous incredibly kind you know i’m like i’m like the the right brain Mr creative 100 miles an hour big ideas you know i’m the creative energy.


David Newman: Behind this business Charlie is the financial and operations and stability energy behind this business.


David Newman: If it was me I would be like a rocket flaming out of control and going in all kinds of crazy zany orbits so Charlie keeps me grounded he keeps our company grounded, he is a he is a buffer he is a source of constant steady reassurance.


David Horsager: We need everybody, we need that’s one thing we learned right away right, we need a lot of we need help.


David Horsager: unite even out.


David Horsager: hey David Newman Thank you so much, find everything you need at trusted leader show.com all the show notes everything about David Newman, this has been the Leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 35: Calvin Stovall on The 4 Ways You Or Your Brand Can Become ICONIC

In this episode, David sits down with Calvin Stovall, Chief Experience Officer for ICONIC Presentations, LLC, to discuss the four ways you or your brand can become ICONIC.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Calvin’s Bio:
Calvin is the Chief Experience Officer for ICONIC Presentations, LLC. Calvin specializes in delivering high-energy, customized keynote presentations for organizations that desire to reach or maintain ICONIC status. Calvin focuses on delivering the perfect blend of business concepts, story-telling and music themes to bring home an impactful message that touches both the heads and hearts of his audiences.

Armed with more than 25 years of experience in the hospitality and non-profit services industries, Calvin’s audiences learn real-life, hands-on practical customer experience and leadership principles which can be easily applied to business challenges today. Calvin designed a practical and systematic technique called The ICONIC Framework™ to help organizations achieve and maintain iconic status in the eyes of their customers. Calvin is also host of The ICONIC Mindset podcast where he and his co-host John Avola share the secrets behind what it takes to make your business, idea or movement iconic.

The pinnacle of Calvin’s hospitality career was his promotion to vice president of brand marketing with Hilton Worldwide where he was responsible for the marketing and public relations efforts for more than 150 Homewood Suites by Hilton hotels. While under his leadership, Homewood Suites by Hilton was voted best in class by numerous consumer advocacy publications, including Consumer Reports and recognized four times by J.D. Power and Associates for its unwavering commitment to customer service quality.

Calvin’s Links:
Website: https://iconicpresentations.net/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ICONICPresentations/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/calvinstovall/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICONICSPEAKER
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqneK3LGcSAoWGiyyPnpGVw/videos
The Iconic Mindset podcast: https://www.theiconicmindset.com/

Key Quotes:
1. “You can’t have a great customer experience unless you have a great employee experience.”
2. “You have to have some level of differentiation to stand out.”
3. “Everybody has a gift, and everybody has something that they can contribute to the world.”
4. “People emulate and mirror what they see.”
5. “Bring your best self to everything you do.”
6. “You can’t accomplish the vision that you’re trying to accomplish without your team being connected to that.”
7. “Embrace your difference.”
8. “You should have a diverse team because that brings diverse voice, that brings diverse ideas.”
9. “People want truth.”
10. “Focus on what matters most.”
11. “Never become too comfortable or complacent.”
12. “Sometimes success can be a barrier to innovation.”
13. “You have to watch your competitors.”
14. “Focus on the things you can control.”
15. “Sometimes we feel like we have to know everything, but you don’t and you can’t.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Powershift” by Daymond John: https://amzn.to/3qfPVAF
FUBU Clothing: https://fubu.com/
“Change Your World” by John C. Maxwell: https://amzn.to/3cZf9hA

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager i’ve got a special episode today he’s been an executive at Hilton worldwide the Hilton hotels he’s been a.


David Horsager: brand strategist with St jude hospitals he’s been an entrepreneur a CEO is run a nonprofit amazing guy we got some great things to talk about today, thank you for being with us today Calvin stovl.


Calvin Stovall: Oh man day Thank you so much man i’m excited to be here truly honored man, thank you.


David Horsager: it’s great, and you know what.


David Horsager: we’ve been friends and you’re down in North Carolina and moved away from me in Minnesota you’re.


Calvin Stovall: in the workplace, but let me tell you it’s warm today in Minnesota too.


Calvin Stovall: Rare.


David Horsager: let’s get started, I want to get into your framework and some of the things you’re doing and just talk about leadership, a little bit before.


David Horsager: I do work a couple things we need to know about Calvin stovall that that you know what what’s what are you passionate about I know you got a couple kiddos what are a couple things we should know to get started.


Calvin Stovall: Oh awesome man yeah I do have two boys that i’m raising them and they’re they’re actually 11 and one will be ton of 14 next month, so i’m having fun with those guys they’re eating the out of house and home but i’m loving it.


Calvin Stovall: But, but other than that man i’m just i’m just passionate about you know, helping people aspiring people reach that will help them reach their full potential, I am a true blue hospitality person.


Calvin Stovall: And most of my of my career has been in the hospitality industry.


Calvin Stovall: You know started as a desk cart i’ve been to you know, be an executive with Hilton worldwide, so you know i’m truly focused on helping companies, become more customer centric.


Calvin Stovall: on creating memorable customer experiences and things of that nature and really inspiring leadership to you know really motivate and empower people to deliver those memorable experiences, whatever it is that they do, because I think that’s just so essential.


David Horsager: And, but we’re going to come back around at the end of the end of the podcast to you personally and some other thoughts around that how you lead yourself and those kind of things.


David Horsager: But let’s jump in because you created a framework all your experience with everything from Hilton hotels to.


David Horsager: You know your brand strategy work, and all this, I think it’s really fascinating you created a framework for becoming iconic and, in my mind, as you know, if everything we talked about here it’s like becoming trusted right trusted.


David Horsager: trusted friends and what I like about it, and you know we’ve talked about this before, but when you, you talk about even what it is to be iconic.


David Horsager: And it’s not just stand out like some people think it was also being relevant.


David Horsager: And it was having longevity so it’s not just say you know iconic is isn’t just like oh amazing for a moment it’s got longevity and we love that because that says a whole lot about trust, but tell me what you mean by iconic before we jump into the framework.


Calvin Stovall: Okay awesome well when I talk about I kind of got think you kind of just you described it very well Dave is short and simple it’s about relevancy.


Calvin Stovall: And how do you keep yourself relevant, basically, how do you stay in the marketplace and continue to evolve, because things change all the time.


Calvin Stovall: And how do you continually evolve and keep your customers engaged and and also keep your employees engaged because that’s a critical part of become an iconic has got to be both there’s I just i’m a proponent of you can’t.


Calvin Stovall: Have a great customer experience, unless you have a great employee experience and they.


Calvin Stovall: Both work hand in hand.


Calvin Stovall: So that’s that’s what I talk about iconic you got to have all of that.


David Horsager: And if you’re being iconic like you’ve helped a lot of brands become iconic or that’s what you’re you’re helping people and what about what about individuals.


Calvin Stovall: Oh absolutely this this framework, and I know we’ll talk a little bit more about that you know i’ll just say day 2020 was a pivotal year for a lot of people.


Calvin Stovall: A lot of people will still trying to figure things out a lot of people had to pivot really change how they were just a mindset and how they were approaching things.


Calvin Stovall: And so, this framework works for of course it works for brand or an organization, but it also can turn you can turn it inward to help you thrive doing uncertainty so basically doing 2020 a lot of my virtual experiences or not too many live events anyway.


David Horsager: If the virtual ones.


Calvin Stovall: were really about helping people be able to embrace the unknown how they can better pivot and change their mindset and be able to thrive and times when you really didn’t know what to do next, so this framework really helps can kind of help you do that as well.


David Horsager: let’s let’s jump into the framework, this is going to help a lot of people today, and I think whether you’re a leader and what I love about it is you know we’ve got the eight pillars trust the framework for building trust.


David Horsager: This year there’s a lot of overlap here on on how to become iconic it’s really a lot about how do I become trusted.


David Horsager: By being relevant and last thing and a whole lot of what you’re going to talk about so let’s take a look first of all, and over where there’s it’s a four quadrant framework people trusted leaders out there can think about this, how do we.


David Horsager: You know, look give us an overview and then let’s go into them a little bit so people have something they can take away tomorrow morning.


Calvin Stovall: Okay, also the first quadrant Dave is is to be unique and we all know from a brand standpoint, you have to have some level of differentiation.


Calvin Stovall: To stand out, but the terminus inward.


Calvin Stovall: is really about finding your why what is, what is your purpose right and what gets you up and gets you jazzed every single day everybody I believe everybody has a gift.


Calvin Stovall: And everybody has something that can contribute to the world and, but you gotta you gotta figure what that is what that’s what that is.


Calvin Stovall: And, and once you have that that’s the anchor of everything the other three quadrants surround that.


Calvin Stovall: And you know, and then, when you’re talking about a company it’s got to be right it’s got to be about more than just money and profitability right.


Calvin Stovall: it’s got to be a higher purpose, so people can rally around that and it’s the same as a person, you want to you want to have something that you rally around every day what gets you fired up I call them blue diamonds.


Calvin Stovall: And I call them blue diamonds are kind of core values basically your blue diamonds are, and I call them blue diamonds diamonds are rare.


Calvin Stovall: You can only find them three places in the world, India, Australia and I believe in South Africa but i’d like to use blue diamonds, what is your blue diamond.


Calvin Stovall: or diamonds, what makes you different than everybody else, what are your gifts, so that whole be unique is all around that and again that can be a company or looking at yourself.


David Horsager: let’s take an example let’s take this bite by bite I like this, a lot let’s take maybe an example, what would have been when you’re working with let’s say Hilton.


David Horsager: hotels what’s unique you got married he got this you got that.


David Horsager: What was the You know, as we all stay on these hotels what what would have been something that would differentiated them compared to others, and I know you were especially driving results on one big brand book, what would be a.


David Horsager: You know how would, I think about it, if I can anchor to a brand like you worked with what What was their examples there for Hilton.


Calvin Stovall: yeah absolutely what what what what homewood had that was very different in our I guess you would say our Goliath was resonance in.


Calvin Stovall: We were a small brand homeless with small homeless week was a small brand at the time we had like 35.


Calvin Stovall: Residence had had about 200 plus or whatever, so they had the distribution we didn’t have, but what we did have was the highest guest satisfaction ratings in that segment, so we have that and our product was top notch.


David Horsager: What was it what what what made it different Well, first of all.


David Horsager: Why do you think they said.


Calvin Stovall: It was a people, it was experienced that we created for them.


David Horsager: We know how did you create.


David Horsager: People because he got the same people different you know different place how did you what was different about it.


Calvin Stovall: Well, I think that we, we really communicated with them all the time and we talked about what the brand stood for.


Calvin Stovall: And we exemplified that in all of our communications, we talked about it, and everything all of our because every year, we had an annual meeting we talked about, we made sure that the leaders did their huddles with their team.


Calvin Stovall: We inspired all of the leaders themselves to know how how important their engagement was to the employees engagement, so we emulate we understood that people emulate mirror what they see.


Calvin Stovall: So we focused a lot on the importance of leadership, because the product is the product anybody can copy the product, we, I mean you know, even though we were newer brand.


Calvin Stovall: People can put in new carpet, they can paint the walls, they can do all that stuff but we knew if we have the right leadership in place day.


Calvin Stovall: And we knew that those believers were inspiring that team to create those experiences that guests would talk about and tell their friends and relatives and colleagues about we knew we could win.


You can.


David Horsager: You.


David Horsager: Can copy the product you can’t copy the experience.


David Horsager: There it is I love.


Calvin Stovall: It and copy.


David Horsager: And copy the product but.


David Horsager: Not the experience that’s exactly.


David Horsager: And so let’s go to.


David Horsager: let’s get an example personal maybe it’s yours, maybe it’s a leader, you know what’s an example of a real blue diamond for you.


Calvin Stovall: Ah, so that’s a good question a blue diamond for me is really something different, that I like to bring is my passion and and, and that is.


Calvin Stovall: I bring I bring my whole self to any project that I that I do, and so, when I when I talk to clients or anybody that i’m communicating with you will know.


Calvin Stovall: Calvin is in the game i’m in the game.


Calvin Stovall: And you will see it on my face, you will see it in my body actions in my body language and everything and I, and I truly believe people are inspired by people that.


Calvin Stovall: That that that communicate that way and and I just know that Could you imagine Dave you know you’ve been doing this for a long time and i’m sure you’ve seen a lot of speakers, I have to and some stand out from others and typically.


Calvin Stovall: The passion and the fire that comes off the platform inspires people in the audience, and so my my blue diamond for me is spreading that passion and and that’s a core about me hey bring your best self.


Calvin Stovall: To everything you do, and you know, and although some things may not work out you gave it your best shot and That to me is enough.


David Horsager: I love it so your uniqueness, one of them, and I know firsthand.


Is.


David Horsager: Your authenticity, by the way, yeah look passionate and it’s not often yeah.


Calvin Stovall: Right yeah yeah.


David Horsager: yeah.


Calvin Stovall: that’s the second quadrant.


David Horsager: yeah all right.


There we go.


Calvin Stovall: The.


Calvin Stovall: Water just be authentic that’s the second quadrant, and that is all about connectedness and what I mean by connectedness and if we’re talking about a company is connectedness around your.


Calvin Stovall: Your your customers understanding their needs, their wants understanding having empathy and their journey and things of that nature and also have a connectedness with your team.


Calvin Stovall: I think you can accomplish the vision that you’re trying to accomplish without your team being connected to that and that is through.


Calvin Stovall: Communication and showing that you truly care about their well being xyz turning inward be authentic is all about being yourself and being comfortable in your own skin, and that is, you know I think sometimes people feel like they have to morph into something else.


Calvin Stovall: To be accepted and I like the idea of of youth being.


Calvin Stovall: Happy being you.


Calvin Stovall: And so you know, like I said everybody’s different and embrace your difference, I know some people heard here all the time hey look you don’t fit in you don’t you’re not a cultural fit.


Calvin Stovall: And, and I don’t like cultural fit because cultural fit means everybody’s got to be the same.


Calvin Stovall: To me, I like cultural add.


Calvin Stovall: Because your experiences your background the things that you bring that are unique to you that that’s your that’s your brand that’s your authenticity.


Calvin Stovall: And, and I think that’s important to bring to any company or anything you know your relationships, because people want to know, I mean people should embrace your differences, and I think that’s important.


David Horsager: How can I tell if a company’s authentic as a brand how what’s that look like.


Calvin Stovall: well.


David Horsager: If everybody meaningful.


Calvin Stovall: To me if I look if I look at all your leadership, and they all look the same.


Calvin Stovall: To me that’s not being authentic because authenticity, to me, is caring about other people’s backgrounds experiences and things of that nature, so you should have a diverse team, because that brings diverse voices that brings diverse ideas and.


Calvin Stovall: Again, that leads to the iconic status because that’s, the only way, you can do that, so you have to some some organizations, you can tell if they have a myopic view of things.


Calvin Stovall: You become bland you become boring, and sometimes you just be stagnant, but if you have authenticity you’re being true to who you are as a brand you’re thinking of other people’s values and and experiences and caring about.


Calvin Stovall: Other people bring to the table to me that’s an authentic company, because it shows that you’re you have really truly branched out and really want to embrace your other people’s things that they bring.


Calvin Stovall: In some organizations, I think probably not not like.


David Horsager: What would you say to this, though, though I hear what you’re saying I agree in many ways, would you say everyone’s a fit.


David Horsager: Can everybody, be a fit of every let’s say culture.


Calvin Stovall: I would say, well, if.


Calvin Stovall: It depends, I would say, you can be if your cultural add you can fit into an organization, but it depends on that the type of organization, we talked about.


Calvin Stovall: So if you go to an organization and you go in for an interview they and you ask the right questions are you sitting there and you’re watching and you never see anybody that looks like you.


Calvin Stovall: Or you see everybody is all white male or you see know females and leadership or you see there, there are cues that you can say well.


Calvin Stovall: If that’s the kind of company you’re looking for if you’re looking for a company that is authentic or is going to embrace differences.


Calvin Stovall: That might not be the company, you want to be, and I think now in the environment that we’re in today, I think, particularly with the younger generation jen’s ease and you know millennials they’re looking for organizations that have that level of authenticity and diversity in it.


Calvin Stovall: So you know i’m not saying you can you it takes time to can you know convert if you if you’re all like looking at the same now that’s going to take time, but I think you have to first of all be aware that there’s an issue here.


Calvin Stovall: And then start making some changes can happen overnight, but you have to be able to embrace that and realize that hey things have changed, maybe we need to change our mindset and a little bit and start doing things a little bit differently.


Calvin Stovall: You know, and that that I believe that’s how you connect to people.


Calvin Stovall: And that’s why the whole connected, this is.


Calvin Stovall: Important because if people see that and they know that their voice is going to be heard and their differences are going to be valued and the experiences that they bring is going to be, you know, help the organization move forward.


Calvin Stovall: I love that that’s why I love right like brainstorming sessions, you should have a diverse group of people in their offering ideas, and I just believe that will help you get to the best solution.


Calvin Stovall: But you know, in a lot of organizations, if you have you know when you’re trying to be innovative, as they say, you know and they’ll have brainstorming sessions, but who’s in those sessions.


Calvin Stovall: yeah top tier people you know senior people that but they rarely will talk to the line level employees and have them be involved because typically that closer to the customer to, and so you know you want to make sure you have their voices as well.


David Horsager: But I guess Lee.


David Horsager: yeah no I just think there’s a lot to go out and go into here, I think.


David Horsager: Yes, it is it’s a it’s a interesting world what we’ve learned is you know I mean, in fact, one of the biggest Harvard Putnam study shows diversity as an example diversity of of many kinds not just colored skin of many kinds.


David Horsager: tends to it tends to pit people against each other.


David Horsager: Unless you increase trust, yes, but you have to increase stress to do it now, how do we increase trust well actually our experiences, do you have to have.


David Horsager: Certain commonalities to get the best out of diversity, so we have to have the same vision let’s say we have the same unified purpose let’s say so.


David Horsager: i’m just thinking about.


David Horsager: You know, so, in fact, that means for us, at least, and we have this you know smaller relatively diverse company of our for our kind.


David Horsager: Night love more always but um that we have to actually to get the best out of diversity, even equity inclusion we actually have to have a sameness that cut some people out that shows they aren’t.


David Horsager: You know if they aren’t about this kind of purpose it’s not a.


Calvin Stovall: Yes.


David Horsager: it’s actually not a color skin thing or a or a.


David Horsager: certain kinds of diversity it’s a.


David Horsager: it’s a what it takes to serve our purpose our clients and our mission well.


David Horsager: yeah it does take some people and that’s nothing to do with skin color.


Calvin Stovall: Right exactly.


David Horsager: What it does.


David Horsager: mean, some people are not the right fit.


Calvin Stovall: Yes, yes, and that is, you are absolutely correct.


Calvin Stovall: Oh, that is so fun and.


David Horsager: I want to get a clue from the expert so.


Calvin Stovall: That is true, and that is true, and that is when you’re in that’s that goes back to the wire that goes back to the why the purpose that’s what everybody has to have that common core value the blues the blue that all that all that has to be common across.


Calvin Stovall: Or you just got wiped.


David Horsager: out on the same bus with our blue diamond folks.


Calvin Stovall: Yes, right you gotta get.


David Horsager: You gotta jump to jump to the third quarter.


David Horsager: that’s being iconic.


David Horsager: be relevant.


David Horsager: yeah.


Calvin Stovall: Go ahead national yes be passionate and you know what that is, that is all about if we talk about a company on leader.


Calvin Stovall: that’s about leading by example leading with vigor and vitality, you know energizing and engaging and empowering and inspiring a team, so you know.


Calvin Stovall: Like I said before, I believe people mirror and emulate what they see, so I think 2020 was such a pivotal year for a lot of people and particularly if you are in leadership.


Calvin Stovall: You have to be careful.


Calvin Stovall: Because you know your employees are watching everything you do, and if you were to type of LEADER that was like the sky was falling oh woe is me.


Calvin Stovall: With with with no optimism that will rub off on your team and, of course, that will rub off on the customer experience, which is what you don’t want to see happen, and so I think in this, in this case particularly leaders that I like to call it, pragmatic optimism.


Calvin Stovall: And why I call it, that is, people don’t want a leader that has their head in the sand, either, and just say you know what i’m just going to ignore everything that’s going around me where the skies wonderful things are going to be great now that’s not going to work people want truth.


Calvin Stovall: But they also know that you can help, and we, together, could get to a brighter future I think there’s a balance there and so.


Calvin Stovall: You know that whole that 2020 was a year, where I think that that and the connectedness was so important, if you were if you were the type of leader and you all, you did was talk about.


Calvin Stovall: You know, because a lot of people were working from home and all of that, you know.


Calvin Stovall: If you’re only focused on productivity spreadsheets all of that stuff you you missed the boat because really The thing is, you should have been talking more about.


Calvin Stovall: People self self making sure they’re taken care of themselves you showing empathy for situations and things of that nature, because now that we’re coming out of this trust me people never forget yeah.


Calvin Stovall: And they will know if you only cared about your numbers versus me as an individual.


David Horsager: We saw that for sure we said we had a phrase around here lead with empathy lead the.


David Horsager: conversation with them, but the.


David Horsager: lead with it’s something else that you, you talked about whether you know whether wherever it was inspired probably your own brain but it sure reminds me of some other truth.


David Horsager: That pragmatic optimism piece I love the balance of that because, as you may or may not have heard the story, but I think it was, if I remember right Admiral Stockdale was the highest ranking.


David Horsager: prisoner war and the Vietnam War and excuse me, he was you know.


David Horsager: He was asked after people got out he said he saw so many people die as prisoners of war and it ate them so deeply and then a reporter, I believe, or some.


David Horsager: might even been calling to interviewed him and said what was it about those that died, was it was there anything specific and he said.


David Horsager: It was the optimists they all you know said Oh, they all thought i’m going to get out by Christmas i’m going to get out by Easter and they they just blinded themselves to the pragmatic part and they just.


David Horsager: wow, and so this became known as the Stockdale paradox that those actually that made it were actually.


David Horsager: able to first confront the brutal truth and we saw this in the in the pandemic many people like you said put their head in the sand, what I was not happy not real those that they were able to confirm this.


David Horsager: we’ve got some issues we gotta do we got to empathize we’re gonna do this, but they did have it was a paradox, because that was balanced with a long term optimism.


David Horsager: yeah a.


David Horsager: Long term hope and so while they had to confront the truth or did they also had long term hope and that’s I think saying the exact same thing is what you found in your world.


David Horsager: And that is pragmatic got not blind optimism, not just hey everything’s gonna be alright.


David Horsager: dining it’s actually raining you know.


David Horsager: So I think that’s very interesting let’s let’s jump to the fourth quadrant of being iconic.


Calvin Stovall: No right all right Dave, this is probably all of them are important, but I think this one’s really critical and that is the be consistent and it’s two things two points to this one.


Calvin Stovall: focus on what matters most course you want to make sure you’re focusing on your product and make sure you’re being consistent and things of that nature, but the biggest thing for this quadrant is never becoming too comfortable or complacent.


Calvin Stovall: And so you don’t want to get you don’t want to be a blockbuster or or circuit city or some of these other brands that that didn’t want to innovate.


Calvin Stovall: You know, because of the situation, you know, everybody knows the situation with blockbuster when the guy came to him and told him about hey look, I want to do this netflix thing you know as male or at the time and and the guy that was.


Calvin Stovall: I think I think his name is john and yoko I think that was his name, he was running blockbuster at the time, and he told him, no, thank you.


Calvin Stovall: People going to be written these things for ages, I got this you know, and then they were back up 10 years later.


Calvin Stovall: same thing tower records same situation that owner russ Solomon he he just dismissed downloading music, so my whole thing here about this one is sometimes success can be a barrier to innovation.


Calvin Stovall: So you can you can become so comfortable that you, you lose sight of where things are headed you don’t want to I love this term, people say you don’t want to get uber arrived.


Calvin Stovall: Right.


Calvin Stovall: No, no uber turn things upside you know turn that you know the taxi industry upside down and so that airbnb same thing with the hospitality industry, they weren’t ready for that and that’s why I always always encourage people you know.


Calvin Stovall: You have to watch your competitors that’s that’s true and I think that’s that’s you have to make sure it watch what they’re doing but but it’s typically when you get disrupted is usually not your competitor is somebody outside of.


Calvin Stovall: You know, so I always encourage people look outside of the industry as well, and what they’re doing this innovative that you can borrow.


David Horsager: How else can they do it yeah because you know you get yeah it’s like okay I didn’t you know we were taxis were attacked, you know taxi drivers and.


David Horsager: And they just didn’t think about that positive there’s no way someone’s gonna get in with a stranger it’s you know people often tritely sale, just think outside the box.


Calvin Stovall: well.


David Horsager: Right so easy to do it it’s like okay you at Hilton you know worldwide the market cap on airbnb is magnificently higher with less than 2000 employees than five believe 5 million, you know Hilton.


David Horsager: properties that are magnificent so something hit even Hilton right so.


Calvin Stovall: yeah yeah.


David Horsager: How do we actually you know we talked about innovation I love this, by the way, success as a barrier to innovation that’s.


David Horsager: Totally true we’re doing well, but how do we actually keep pressing ourselves to innovator, see the next thing, most people know people didn’t see the pandemic coming when I asked.


Calvin Stovall: As a.


David Horsager: futurist I had one of the editors on this show you know top features in the world, and they can see certain things, but they don’t see a lot of things, is there any.


David Horsager: way to you know actually get rid of the blind spots and see things in time.


Calvin Stovall: yeah you know what i’m not my thing is this, you know day there are there are things that you can control them those things that you can.


Calvin Stovall: And I just tell people to what frustrates what most guess most people frustrated is they’re typically focusing on something that they have really no control.


Calvin Stovall: So, but my my recommendation to people is focus on the things you can’t control and what you can control is to constantly keep learning.


Calvin Stovall: And and and have a have a curious curiosity mindset, because if you are always reading or The thing is, those those great about the world when today Dave Pack is.


Calvin Stovall: Learning in such a great way, I mean now podcast now you have Ted talks, you have audio books, you have a lot of things like that, where you can you can leverage and take advantage of.


Calvin Stovall: But just just continue to learn and what it does, is it, it helps you think differently there’s a lot of smart right people out out here like yourself, and so you know you, I think it just just keeping that you know when you’re a child, like my boys man they they’re curious about.


Every.


Calvin Stovall: Everything and as we get older we feel like we know everything, and you know we’ve done everything that you know but but that’s not the case, and sometimes as leaders, sometimes we feel like we have to know everything, but you don’t and you can’t.


Calvin Stovall: Right.


David Horsager: We talked about this this morning we’re actually filming.


David Horsager: On our trust edge pillar of competency, how do we stay fresh relevant and capable.


David Horsager: And we have everything from.


David Horsager: You know podcast to coaching to masterminds to being a part of associations to having.


David Horsager: mentors to reading you want a great new idea read an old book right so there’s a whole lot of ways we can stay fresh and relevant than capable, so that.


David Horsager: How do we be iconic Calvin stovall you be unique be authentic be passionate be consistent, you have an example of a brand that’s doing this, or two.


Calvin Stovall: Oh wow man, I think, I think, and one of my one of my favorite brands and I know is chick fil a and I know it’s a it’s kind of fast food, but not really but, but if you.


Calvin Stovall: And I like because it’s as simple as that, but there they always at the top of every food and beverage restaurant rating because they’re consistent their product is good but they’re people are chest.


Calvin Stovall: unique.


there.


David Horsager: So kids are over at.


David Horsager: The other place, but these how did they learn to say my pleasure and keep a clean bathroom right.


Calvin Stovall: exactly that that is a that is a blue diamond that’s a core band that they have and and I just find that.


Calvin Stovall: fascinating Southwest airlines is not like every other airline eating, they are they they train their people different that people are unique experiences different you know.


Calvin Stovall: nordstrom department stores ritz carlton these days they understand the importance of of creating experiences, but they’ve also empower people to create those experiences.


David Horsager: Interesting since you’re in the you know hotel industry or we’re, especially now with your consulting and speaking still all over hospitality but but we had her sheltie on who is one of the founders of.


David Horsager: And it was he who inspired chick fil a to say my pleasure, because that’s what they did at the ready.


David Horsager: And they say, well, we want it, we think that’s a good idea let’s just do what you do at the risk that okay okay so boom, all of a sudden my pleasure goes across chick fil a I.


David Horsager: We were joking last night with some friends, we wish that the chick fil a drive thru folks their system would be used by government and the license.


David Horsager: Commission see what God immensely.


Calvin Stovall: Oh, my God man isn’t this amazing with all of the things that that that’s out here today, some the government just doesn’t they don’t get it.


David Horsager: they’re not incentivized to, though.


Calvin Stovall: yeah.


David Horsager: I mean you’re not incentivized if you, you know when you’re incentivized financially to be efficient than there’s some you know we have to incentivize it’s just like our government in many ways in our media in many ways are incentivized against building trust.


David Horsager: yeah so also we pay for you know D, instead of ization trust So what do we get less trust in government let’s trust the media and so forth, and that’s why that’s why free enterprise in many ways is so good, because we incentivize.


David Horsager: Effectiveness and we actually incentivize what the customer wants many some people think of course we’re incentivizing making money or we’re in sentiment know we’re incentivizing actually doing what’s best for the customer, because if we don’t take.


David Horsager: care of them better than anybody else we don’t get paid and feed her.


David Horsager: Children so.


Calvin Stovall: I love it I love it.


David Horsager: Anyway, that’s a little side note that i’m sure I will get flak and critique for.


Calvin Stovall: That it was all true.


David Horsager: You know.


David Horsager: Try to stay on the side of truth in spite of critique I.


David Horsager: say you know if you want to get critiqued for a living.


David Horsager: I brought my wiser older brother, used to say this economist yeah you want to get critiqued for the living.


David Horsager: yeah I mean what he says we’re in more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think, and I say, if you want to get critiqued for a living, give a speech write a book or lead anything.


Calvin Stovall: Right yeah.


yeah.


David Horsager: haven throw darts if you write a book or give a speech or have a podcast there, so you got that right you gotta tie so.


David Horsager: i’m great well I love it any can you, you know we’re we got to wrap this up before we do, is there any person that you say where they live, this out, is there a leader that you see, and maybe maybe we know that maybe we don’t but.


David Horsager: Is there any person you think of Okay, because I know you help a lot of leaders, you know use this framework to, in essence, be iconic to.


David Horsager: be relevant and, last but any any example.


David Horsager: of someone in one part of this.


Calvin Stovall: yeah but I, I am a huge fan of john Maxwell and and.


David Horsager: I loved I was on stage with him last week.


David Horsager: What yes we’re at the Houston at world series of sales with 1000 people whatever I was on right before him, it was a treat so we got to.


Calvin Stovall: Actually, also one up anything, by the way, but yeah my new book trusted leader, he.


David Horsager: He put his code on the pivotal guide for days later, so i’m honored.


David Horsager: That and also.


David Horsager: We sit on an expert of experts in residence at high point and some other things so.


David Horsager: You said that.


Calvin Stovall: yeah that was yeah because that was just coincidental but he is he is somebody that I follow, I have followed for a long time I just like his his his authenticity is always passionate and very consistent he’s you know he’s iconic in my eyes to me, one of the people that I just I admire.


David Horsager: Right great well let’s bring it to to a little bit personal as we wrap for the clothes, you know we talking leadership, and I know you’ve been a leader in many organizations from.


David Horsager: As they talked about the Hilton groups to St jude’s to nonprofit where you were a CEO and now running your own organization, where you teach this framework around the world.


David Horsager: Yes, what, how do you lead yourself what are you have any routines are things i’m you’re trying to be a good dad just like i’m trying to be you’re trying to We hope that we’re a bigger hero to those that.


David Horsager: Know us the most than two people way out there and the audience, how do you how do you, what do you do consistently that last part of your framework to lead yourself well.


Calvin Stovall: Well, you know I I am I am a believer you know so, so I do spend time in the word a little bit you know enough to.


Calvin Stovall: really strengthen myself because it’s tough out here man and sometimes you need to that it is, and you know, like you said, people can critique you all the time and so.


Calvin Stovall: The Bible is a good source of energy for me and it gives me, you know more inspiration to keep pressing so i’m pretty consistent with that I can always be better but i’m pretty consistent with it and and self care.


Calvin Stovall: I gotta take care of myself, because I want to be here for my boys and I love to have I love that have a high energy and so.


Calvin Stovall: I work out consistently and trying to eat better but and then and then my boys and then my family they’re not they’re my guys, so you know I want to make sure that they are.


Calvin Stovall: You know just impactful citizens in the world and, of course, be able to make their own decisions, but I want them to be gentlemen and scholars.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Oh, I love it and you have one little takeaway favorite resource or book right now, these days, that you’re like.


David Horsager: ooh that right now, this one’s hidden me.


Calvin Stovall: I have been you know I have been on this damon john kick for a while and you know, yes, yes, several books that he has but but I like his philosophy his whole hustle philosophy and and it’s kind of I mean I know he’s on that show, and all of that, but his books are really.


Calvin Stovall: kind of grassroots and so I like his approach to things and him having been with football and how he brought that up.


Calvin Stovall: I just love that whole hustle mentality so i’ve kind of been on his i’ve been on his coattails a little bit for the last last several months so he’s kind of been a guy i’ve been following quite a bit.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: hey this has been a treat we’ve got one final question we asked everybody on the show before we do that question where can we find out everything about you.


David Horsager: Your framework and you’re even getting your podcast you’ve got iconic presentations.net will have linked in the show notes so everybody just look at the show notes iconic presentations.net anywhere else we should.


David Horsager: Look, or can we put everything there.


Calvin Stovall: You can find everything there pretty much but i’m almost all the socials you know, an iconic speaker on Twitter on g of course i’m only then.


Calvin Stovall: And you know in in so of course I do have that patek podcast called iconic mindset um I do that with a Co host and john of Allah and they’re on all of the platforms as well there, so you can just type in Calvin stobo iconic.


Calvin Stovall: he’ll come up.


David Horsager: I love it Calvin final question you’ve already you know offered a few of them in daymond john and john Maxwell but we always ask it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.


Calvin Stovall: Yes, there is a guy that I know.


Calvin Stovall: His name is Jim hall hauser Jim was the.


Calvin Stovall: brand leader or SVP for homewood suites when I was at Hilton.


Calvin Stovall: i’ll never forget, Jim because Jim was iconic particularly and how he laid his people he trusted us, and he, let us try things that had never been done before.


Calvin Stovall: Which, which is why I think homework was so successful and, of course, you had to make sure that the ideas that you brought on strategy and all that.


Calvin Stovall: But, but what I what was unique about Jim was that he was one of the best listeners talk about empathy in leadership that was it he embodied that and he was just a unique guy he actually runs focus brands now.


Calvin Stovall: But he so he’s he’s going over to to the food and beverage side of things.


Calvin Stovall: But, but he was just I will always remember him because he was just so different in his approach to leadership he had everything that you talk about the trust.


Calvin Stovall: The leadership calm and all of those things that was that was just him and that’s a guy if you want to emulate a great leader, he was the one.


Calvin Stovall: I love it yeah yeah.


David Horsager: Well, this has been fantastic it’s been really fun to reconnect Calvin.


David Horsager: yeah even though you’re you’ve you’ve.


David Horsager: flown the coupon Minnesota.


David Horsager: Lots of takeaways here today a few my favorites you can copy the product, but not the experience.


David Horsager: focus on what you can control success is a barrier to in ovation.


David Horsager: Then Everybody now knows the framework for being iconic be unique and authentic and passionate.


David Horsager: and consistent Calvin thanks for being on this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 34: Curtis J. Morley on How To Break Free Of The Entrepreneur’s Paradox

In this episode, David sits down with Curtis J. Morley, 5X Entrepreneur, Author, Educator, Thought Leader, and Patent Holder, to discuss how you can break free of the entrepreneur’s paradox.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell 

Curtis’s Bio:
Curtis Morley, a 5x entrepreneur, author, educator, thought leader, and patent holder, helps entrepreneurs achieve next-level growth. Curtis has built companies achieving 20x growth and acquired 96 of the Fortune 100 as clients. He’s been Entrepreneur of the Year, 40-Under-40, and Inc. 500/5000 six times including Hall of Fame.

Curtis’s Links:
Website: https://www.entrepreneursparadox.com/
“The Entrepreneur’s Paradox” by Curtis J. Morley: https://amzn.to/3go48bK
Twitter: https://twitter.com/speedclimb
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/curtismorley/

Key Quotes:
1. “I don’t believe businesses fail, I believe entrepreneurs quit.”
2. “Another name for change is opportunity.”
3. “I believe that any business can succeed with the right business principles applied.”
4. “The only constant is change.”
5. “Business involves small pivots every week, every month, every quarter, every year.”
6. “If you’re building the product, who’s building the business?”
7. “Decisions done in desperation dictate disaster.”
8. “We’re only born with two innate fears, everything else is learned and can be unlearned.”
9. “Fear falters when faced.”
10. “Life doesn’t happen to you. Life happens for you.”
11. “Life is a blessing.”
12. “If my attitude is that life happens to me, I’m a victim. If my attitude is that life happens for me, all of a sudden I turn into a victor. But if I say life happens through me, now I’m a vessel for something greater than myself.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Entrepreneur’s Paradox” by Curtis J. Morley: https://amzn.to/3go48bK
“The Virtual Assistant Solution” by Michael Hyatt: https://amzn.to/3pR25ji

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and we have a special guest today, please, welcome to the show the one and only curtis J morley curtis thanks for being on.


Curtis Morley: David i’m so honored Thank you so much.


David Horsager: Well curtis if people don’t know about curtis he is the author of the entrepreneurs paradox he’s director of the collard initiative on technology at the University of utah.


David Horsager: he’s started five companies multi million dollar companies his last one had clients 96 of the fortune 100.


David Horsager: He has been the entrepreneur of the year he’s a patent holder he’s training for boston’s after a big back surgery and climbing kilimanjaro last year.


David Horsager: you’re just an interesting guy but you love your family you’ve got five kiddos you have built these companies that have really added value to the world, you just had an exit not too long ago again and.


David Horsager: I think you know you’re an example of a trusted leader, both in business and at home and a generous giver in many other ways, you know I sit on the board of a university you’re doing a lot of service in in.


David Horsager: University and other initiatives and i’m just so grateful to have you here so thanks again for being on curtis.


Curtis Morley: it’s such a pleasure so fun to to be in contact again.


David Horsager: Yes.


David Horsager: And I had the honor of endorsing your book we’re going to jump in on that book again anything else you would just say hey something most people don’t know about curtis J Morley.


Curtis Morley: a really interesting one is i’m actually allergic to chocolates.


Curtis Morley: Oh, believe it or not, yeah.


David Horsager: i’m very sorry about that.


David Horsager: So you’re not allergic to all ice cream that’s that’s where we get a problem.


Curtis Morley: Now we can we can do the other ice cream pistachio, and the reason wrong and all those.


David Horsager: Go and we’re but we’re both we got other similarities, but we’re both from small towns and and a whole lot of other things let’s jump in I mean I think there’s so much to unpack.


David Horsager: In in your new book entrepreneurs paradox and and just your experience in not just you know many people start companies and they fail, but I mean.


David Horsager: you’ve actually been successful at this and I i’m proud of the way you’ve done so much of it, so I want to jump in on this book and just maybe you could give an overview for everybody, you know why this book entrepreneurs paradox and what’s the core of it.


Curtis Morley: yeah i’m so glad you brought that up specifically the you know how how businesses fail and, if you look at the Bureau of Labor statistics, they say that 30% of businesses will go defunct within the first year.


Curtis Morley: And in five years 50% will be out of business and I don’t believe it at all I know the data is accurate, but I believe they they’ve got a faulty assumption, I believe the assumption is that businesses fail I don’t believe businesses fail, I believe, entrepreneurs quit.


Curtis Morley: And that is a big reason a big reason why I wrote the book.


David Horsager: So why did they quit I mean, by the way we I think I have some of my new writing is on it’s not you know.


David Horsager: That i’ve been working on is kind of looking at like true contradictions so like you know the early bird gets the worm but be patient right both.


David Horsager: can be true.


David Horsager: Right it’s like and and I would say, by the way, to the point you’re making there is a another true contradiction or tension, and that is persevere versus pivot.


David Horsager: You and I have, I think, have both seen people persevere and they’ve just made it because they persevered I mean I can talk about myself 21 years ago, starting in the basement with $1 40 to my name black mold on the walls and whatever.


David Horsager: And yet we also see people persevere right off the cliff.


David Horsager: Other people.


David Horsager: We see you know pivot too early and they don’t make it others are seen as brilliant because they pivoted just in time or they would have gone off right so So what is it that makes them, maybe quit or quit at the wrong time.


Curtis Morley: yeah and I love this especially this is so timely in our in our current environment.


Curtis Morley: or current environment with the pandemic going on, but I get asked all the time is is it a good idea to start a business in the middle of a pandemic and and, believe it or not, and my answer is an emphatic yes, not just a yes, but an emphatic yes.


David Horsager: So why.


Curtis Morley: it’s because right now we’re experiencing unprecedented change globally we’re seeing changed that’s never been to this extent and the whole world and the entire planet is doing things differently and the the offer the opportunity is there and another name for change is opportunity.


David Horsager: So I don’t check the right opportunities.


David Horsager: Because obviously change is kind of it is you can have good change or a bad change right but change creates opportunity So how do I.


David Horsager: How do I notice it, and then we got it we got to come back around to that question of of you know what we say, you know what makes us quit what makes people quit at the wrong time.


Curtis Morley: mm hmm yeah yeah if I can share an example to.


Curtis Morley: illustrate the please one of my favorites entrepreneurs young entrepreneurs her name is kylie chin.


Curtis Morley: And she runs a global expedition company called acapella expeditions she’s actually the one that took me to the top of kilimanjaro and she’s amazing.


Curtis Morley: And as you can imagine, if you think of all the industries, all the businesses that were impacted by the pandemic, you know what was impacted most.


Curtis Morley: Arguably traveler and kylie went from a multimillion dollar business to zero in one month like zero not not one customer not to customer zero bookings and.


Curtis Morley: And she could have just quick she could have income, one of the statistics that would have been marked the Bureau of Labor statistics and said okay i’m done, I went off the cliff whoops Oh well.


Curtis Morley: What she didn’t and and there’s a key here is what she did is she said i’m I don’t believe the need or the demand disappeared.


Curtis Morley: I think it just moved it moved locations and and with the pandemic your travel and you’ve got here it got shut off there was literally only a couple countries that were even letting people in.


Curtis Morley: out out of United States, and so it got cut off so she said, where did the need go where did the knee or or did it transition to and she said.


Curtis Morley: Well, people still wanted adventure, they still want that you know that excitement of exploring something new and going to places they’ve never seen and and seeing the world in different ways and opening their eyes and so she said well.


Curtis Morley: Why not provide that domestically so she created a completely different new and different company called wonder camp.


Curtis Morley: And it’s basically doing expedition travel within the United States around the national parks and the amazing thing David is that she is now doing as much business domestically, as she was internationally, and as soon as the pandemics over now she’s gonna have to multimillion dollar.


David Horsager: interesting when you said something interesting way back and I guess that that’s the single biggest indicator of entrepreneurial success something specific you said in your book what’s the what is the single biggest indicator of entrepreneurial success.


Curtis Morley: it’s an indefatigable drive to to never give up.


Curtis Morley: And I know you know that.


David Horsager: yeah so.


David Horsager: The we have this drive, but so you know back to something we started with, would you agree that there are some people, though, that persevere right off the cliff.


Curtis Morley: Oh absolutely.


David Horsager: Absolutely So how do we decide.


David Horsager: yeah when to pivot when to persevere, how do we stay with the right thing at the right time, I miss a big challenge for entrepreneurs.


Curtis Morley: yeah I, I believe that any business can succeed with the right business principles applied, and one of those right business principles is making sure you have market fit and market demand.


Curtis Morley: And then kylie’s case you look at the demand and the demand didn’t disappear, the demand was there, but it wasn’t there international and so.


Curtis Morley: So she said okay it’s time to pivot and understanding those business principles, looking at every single quarter saying, where we at where is the demand, how can we prove that demand.


Curtis Morley: Those are the questions to ask to make sure that you are pivoting to the right place the, the only constant is change.


Curtis Morley: And so, with that in mind, we need to change with it and just plan on changing like there’s big pivots and then there’s business and business involves small pivots every week every month every quarter of the year, it we’re we’re constantly pivoting we can’t be in business without.


David Horsager: How do we, how do we decide like how much to pivot when to pivot, how do we have that be a almost a part of our innovative cycle of thinking, how do I need to pivot now should I pivot like without it, you know becoming us and we don’t persevere when we ought to.


Curtis Morley: mm hmm yeah yeah the actually talked about this in one of the chapters in the entrepreneurs paradox about the example of Thomas Edison.


Curtis Morley: And and there’s the common held belief that Thomas Edison created light bulb well, the truth is six other people, created the light bulb before Thomas Edison.


Curtis Morley: And you look at at his drive and his singular focus, he was so focused on creating a commercially viable light bulb, and that was the big difference if you look at the other.


Curtis Morley: People the other inventors the other business leaders that created other versions of the light bulb before Thomas Edison.


Curtis Morley: They were all well funded, just like him, they were all well connected, they were all well educated, they had everything except they didn’t push through the hard times they created something said hey everybody Look how cool, this is, and then they said, but making it commercially viable.


Curtis Morley: it’s gonna be tough and so they gave up.


David Horsager: That brings us to another, you know really good question because you’ve done this before.


David Horsager: You you’ve sold companies for millions you’ve you’ve you’ve actually had the experience of really growing companies from startup to growth phase.


David Horsager: How do you take it so many people stay in startup let’s say all these other six not not Edison, but these others they stay in the startup phase, but how do they get to and through this rapid growth phase, how do they have to think differently, how do they have to act differently to.


David Horsager: overcome that barrier you talk about that a little bit in the book.


Curtis Morley: I love this question, I absolutely love this question because most entrepreneurs, they do hit this invisible ceiling.


Curtis Morley: They hit this glass ceiling and and there’s some inflection points along the way, and each one of those inflection point has its own ceiling.


Curtis Morley: And one of the key differentiators from a small business that is hitting that ceiling over and over again, and a business that’s experiencing rapid growth.


Curtis Morley: there’s a couple of them, but i’ll just hit on a few here the one of the key differentiators is getting out of the entrepreneurs paradox getting out of their own way.


Curtis Morley: And and realizing that the thing that got them into business is actually what will actively prevent them from succeeding in business.


David Horsager: How do we do it, how do we give it up like Oh, but but with our fingerprints on it, you know it’s the quality is there and the.


David Horsager: The touches there and that, how do we give up, especially when it’s not that it’s a personal brand, but when it’s a you know.


David Horsager: it’s it’s it’s we created this no one else has done it better, in a certain way or given that experience how do we, how do we.


David Horsager: multiply that I mean, I see this challenge with so many people in our work in our business in in businesses like ours that they they just can’t grow to scale when they actually they have something that ought to be scalable.


Curtis Morley: yeah yeah exactly and and one question that I asked every entrepreneur that I work with is if you’re building the product who’s building the business.


Curtis Morley: Think about that if you’re building the product who’s building the business.


Curtis Morley: And that’s The paradox is typically people get into business because they’re really good at something there and they may be the best in the world at what they do, typically they are, and I mean they may have written this incredible dissertation on trust.


Curtis Morley: and realize, you know i’ve really got something here and people love it and, in my case yeah I was.


Curtis Morley: Creating interactive media and my first company and people were like i’ve never seen things like this, this is so cool.


Curtis Morley: We you know, will you do it for me and you need to start a company and i’m thinking well, of course, I do if I know how to create really cool websites, then of course I know how to start a business.


Curtis Morley: Oh no.


David Horsager: So, what was the first did you hire the right.


David Horsager: Number two did you hire the right President, what did you do to if you are the expert in building the product, what did you do to build the company that was sellable or scalable.


Curtis Morley: Well, the first few times I failed I made all the mistakes possible.


Curtis Morley: You really did.


David Horsager: And what would I do differently.


Curtis Morley: that’s really why that’s why I wrote the book, yes, because is because I didn’t make all the mistakes, I made every one of the 16 pitfalls I just fell face first and.


Curtis Morley: And, and then I realized that there’s a better way there’s a better way to do this there’s a faster way to do this there’s a way that you can actually get sleep at night.


Curtis Morley: And you don’t have to work three hours or three days straight, so there is a better way and it took truly the school of hard knocks to teach me these lessons.


David Horsager: So let’s jump in but people need to get this book the entrepreneurs paradox, but let’s jump into what are a few ways we can think of like right now let’s take an entrepreneur.


David Horsager: or leader and say oh they’ve got this great thing but they’ve kind of hit a ceiling, you know they haven’t been able to scale it grow beyond themselves, they haven’t you know.


David Horsager: What, what are the things they need to think about doing what are a few of the things from the book that like you hit this mistake, what did they do, what did you do.


Curtis Morley: yeah the The first one is you got to drain the swamp and I use an analogy of wrestling alligators so if.


Curtis Morley: You know we all start businesses and it’s usually we’re in the real world, we have a day job we fly over to entrepreneur islands.


Curtis Morley: And we’re sitting on the beach sipping our coconuts and you know, fishing and pulling in the big fish and building sandcastles and it’s amazing that we get real there’s just this energy about it, like wow I did something really cool and people actually loved it.


Curtis Morley: And let me get Let me give the quote here that I pulled out from the book it’s hard to remember to drain the swamp when your eye to eye with the alligator.


Curtis Morley: Yes, so.


David Horsager: Tell us about this.


Curtis Morley: So when we’re sitting there on the island, you know we think is this glorious waste and beach with the the beautiful smell the flowers and the ocean breeze.


Curtis Morley: And we’re sitting there, and all of a sudden, an alligator crawls out of.


Curtis Morley: The forest behind us, or the jungle and and we’re like wait a minute wait a minute, this is not what I signed up for I signed up for the beach and the ocean.


Curtis Morley: And the alligator comes in the form of HR issues comes in the form of of legal accounting comes in the form of all of these things that we didn’t expect we’re really good at our trade whether it’s.


Curtis Morley: teaching people about trust or cool websites or cupcakes or guitar building or international travel whatever it is that’s what we have a passion and love for and that’s why we started the company in the first place.


Curtis Morley: What we didn’t realize, is that there were all these alligators so we wake up every morning when we jump on that alligator we wrestle it all day long and we go to bed, and the next morning there’s another alligator climbing out of the swamp.


Curtis Morley: And the way to to break free from that cycle and break out of that first glass ceiling is to drain the swamp.


Curtis Morley: And the draining the swamp means creating systems hiring the right people taking off all the hats, because as entrepreneurs, we love to wear all the hats, we want to pretend I may not be a lawyer, but I play one on TV.


Curtis Morley: All of those things, and when we when we relinquish that including being the best in the world at our craft.


Curtis Morley: And that’s the hard one that’s the that’s the entrepreneurial reboot of the operating system within you know that’s the hardest one is being able to give up.


Curtis Morley: i’m the best in this world at this but I actually need other people to be the best in the world at what I started the company that’s when the entrepreneur breaks out of that glass ceiling.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: that the next one one thing you say is decisions done in desperation dictate disaster.


David Horsager: And I think of this because I think that’s where many are there wrestling they’ll have a alligator.


David Horsager: And they’re in desperation and they’re like we have this great thing it’s amazing it’s awesome and but all of a sudden, they can’t do it all well and they can’t.


David Horsager: handle the growth, they can’t keep up with the growth can you give us some some tips for making those decisions and also for for.


David Horsager: really still like like scaling early on, like getting are not scaling early on, but but but but prepping for rapid growth like what are the systems, you need, who are the first hire you hires you’d make yeah.


Curtis Morley: Absolutely, and the first hires are going to be a lawyer and an accountant.


Curtis Morley: And, and when I say hire doesn’t mean that you bring them on full time you can you know get a fractional CFO.


Curtis Morley: Or you can have a lawyer, that you know you pay for five hours a month or 10 hours a month, whatever it is, but those are going to be some really key ones, especially the accountant and then one that I really think is critical is is hiring an assistant.


Curtis Morley: And, especially if you are doing everything all day you need somebody you know, one of the alligators that is just chronic for entrepreneurs, they love to book their own travel.


Curtis Morley: And you think about that you know they’ll spend an hour to three hours figure it out just the right flight with just the right hotel.


Curtis Morley: that’s three hours you could be working on a multimillion dollar strategy that’s you know, three hours you could be getting back in your life, and you can pay somebody a fairly modest wage to be doing that for you.


David Horsager: I remember when someone said to me early on and I hired probably before I could afford it, but my first hire was the assistant executive assistant, I remember somebody said to me.


David Horsager: Two things one hire it done if possible hair done if it’s not your expertise hire it done and the other thing they said you’ve got to hire done $10 an hour work, so you can do thousand dollar an hour work.


David Horsager: And it’s not like that that’s the money, the amount it’s just that the value like what you can do is bring this, but if you’re doing $10 an hour work you can’t do the thousand dollar an hour work and that’s only.


David Horsager: Really, a number of how much value, you can give to people when you’re using the best of you right, so I agree with that, I actually started yeah.


David Horsager: We have subcontracted you know early on lawyers accountants those kind of things helped a lot, but I think it’s another school of thought is Michael hyatt story he wrote a book called.


David Horsager: world class I think world class executive assistants and basically when I read it, he basically built his company to millions and millions of dollars on assistance like hiring the right assistance now at some point, you need a CEO or I would think.


David Horsager: You know something there right but.


David Horsager: it’s it’s kind of along those lines of try to get out of all these things, and only do the thing that you can do right first and then what you’re saying is then that thing that you think only you can do train someone else to do that thing.


Curtis Morley: Exactly exactly and and truly if you’re the entrepreneur, you can either be the entrepreneur or the solo printer and most most people when they hit that glass ceiling, they are the solo printer.


Curtis Morley: And it’s not until they start doing the things that like taking off the hats and it’s funny because people say well it’s hard to take off the hats.


Curtis Morley: And I say why, why is it hard to take off the hats and you hit on something really important, you said, well, nobody does it as good as I do it right.


Curtis Morley: And it really comes down to trust, but it comes down to trust in two ways the first is that I need to trust someone else that they will own this the way I own.


Curtis Morley: But the second trust that’s important when taking off all the hats, is that I need to trust myself.


Curtis Morley: I need to trust myself that I can train someone to do it, the way that I want it done that I needed done company produces and so it’s trusting others but it’s also trusting myself, and when I work with entrepreneurs and help them see this, the second one is actually harder.


Curtis Morley: Because oftentimes they don’t trust themselves to be able to distill that knowledge.


Curtis Morley: And that expertise to someone else.


David Horsager: that’s so true wow.


David Horsager: Well there’s a lot there’s so much here people got to get the book, but this is something that stood out also we’re only born with two and eight fears, everything else is learned and can be unlearned.


David Horsager: what’s that mean.


Curtis Morley: So in 1969 they did a study and they said, what are the fears that were born, so they took infants and toddlers and and it’s not snakes it’s not the dark it’s not any of the things you know public speech.


Curtis Morley: it’s not any of those things the to make fears and the only fears, they were able to identify in children was the fear of falling.


Curtis Morley: And the fear of loud noises that’s it or no other fears that were inmate when we come down from heaven and join this earth, you know that’s it those are the only two and they’re they’re actually survival techniques with you think about it.


David Horsager: So howdy i’m learning how to learn for years once you’ve had look at, you can have a.


David Horsager: We we deal with people you know they’ve had a traumatic experience to put our feet in their shoes, I mean I can think of the time you know I used to even you know have my lifeguarding certificate to lifeguard and then I got caught underneath of.


David Horsager: Something and almost drown myself and It made me.


David Horsager: Somewhat claustrophobic In fact I still feel at certain times when I get in a certain environment can’t get out because I was stuck under this water with our way out for quite a long time until I found a.


David Horsager: Basically, a you know way across this pool that was covered.


David Horsager: A way out and just by seeing a shining light opening my eyes and that chlorinated water and and seeing the light come in this one area in a pitch black pool and It made me somewhat claustrophobic I wouldn’t mind unlearning that claustrophobia.


Curtis Morley: it’s funny I can totally relate, I thought I was strong enough swimmer to catch my brother off the diving board when I was just a little kid and or boy was I wrong, so I understand that fear of of the water and the fear of that claustrophobia and I.


David Horsager: don’t know if you’re a water I swim I do triathlons now and whatever, but if.


Curtis Morley: know.


David Horsager: It really what it made is it made a fear of animal can swim across certain lakes now not not huge ones, but you know I mean, I can but, but the thing for me now is under anything or tuck tight anything tight like I can’t you know.


Curtis Morley: yeah no I totally get it and yeah having doing triathlons to it’s it was a learning skills swim is still my hardest have.


Curtis Morley: A but.


Curtis Morley: But those fears are valid and there they come from experience and they’re valid, to the point where.


Curtis Morley: The they’re showing us they’re actually a gift that shows us hey This is something that you get overcome this is a way for you to build who you are.


Curtis Morley: And, and I talked about in the book the entrepreneurs paradox about the an exercise called fear smashing.


Curtis Morley: And we actually go through it’s a five step process to look your fear in the face and say what is it really and.


Curtis Morley: And it goes through this process of identifying fear looking in the face and seeing it for what it really is and and I love I love to say that that fear falters, when faced fear fear is actually a coward.


Curtis Morley: Fear was a serious coward and when you look at down when you look at in the eyes and say hey fair i’m actually going to see you for what you are.


Curtis Morley: It turns tail and runs, it is a calor and one real quick, this is, this is also in the book, but one real quick way of getting out of that feeling of anxiety quick in a very short amount of time is there’s there’s one letter that changes fear into power and that letter.


Curtis Morley: Well i’ll illustrate the the phrase that we often hear ourselves in our own brains say is what if.


Curtis Morley: What if my business fails, what if I work too much and my kids hate me what if I can’t make payroll What if I ruin these people’s lives, what if people think i’m a failure, what if what if what if.


Curtis Morley: And I don’t know if you can fill it but, as I say those things I can actually feel my chest constrict right, I can feel that oh that’s just a horrible feeling and if we take off the F.


Curtis Morley: And we replace it with an s.


Curtis Morley: So instead of what if now it’s what is.


Curtis Morley: and pay attention to how you feel, as I say, these statements, what is Michael.


Curtis Morley: What is in my power to change what is my next step.


Curtis Morley: What is.


Curtis Morley: My mission here on earth.


Curtis Morley: What is.


Curtis Morley: The purpose that God wants me to accomplish what is, can you feel the difference.


David Horsager: Absolutely, this goes along really well with what I when I was talking to a CEO in the middle of the pandemic and I said what’s working well for you, because I think he’s doing well, he is a client but he’s got a significant MED tech company and he said, you know when he was in the.


David Horsager: In the war college in the 1980s, he learned something, and that was when you have times of uncertainty, you ask.


David Horsager: What can I control, most people, many people that I saw do poorly as far as leaders in the pandemic or thing Oh, what about the election this, what about that what what up to the weather going to do.


David Horsager: And it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be aware of what’s happening in the environments, because we have to deal with those as leaders, we have to force Satan, and all this, but our forecast but.


David Horsager: Most many people spend all the time, all the brain calories and what they couldn’t control and those that paused and thought and spend most of their brain calories and what they could control they actually found there’s a whole lot more than you can control than you think right.


David Horsager: This goes along with that what they.


David Horsager: All these things I can control and then of those what should I do first very similar to the thought you’re talking about around fear here what what is the way out what is, in my power what what is my bigger person purpose or whatever I love it.


Curtis Morley: yeah and a dear friend of mine, Richard bass he coined the phrase that flexing on the past produces pain threading on the future fuels, fear and only the present produces how’re and peace.


Curtis Morley: And and it’s true the what is brings us to the present, but what it says today, right now, this minute.


Curtis Morley: What is what is surrounding me with blessings what you know there’s so much in the present that brings that power and that piece, that if we let go into the future, we let go of the past and we say right now, what is my next step, what is, in my power to control.


David Horsager: We can get there, we have a chance right.


what’s next.


David Horsager: So i’m going to jump to some personal things but before I do.


David Horsager: What what one more little takeaway from the book there’s so much in there for an entrepreneur, but one other thought that you’d like maybe share with us from the book that to help us.


David Horsager: Those of us that are entrepreneurs grow.


Curtis Morley: yeah, this is a hard question because there’s so much there’s business acumen there’s leadership there’s there’s trust there’s all these things.


Curtis Morley: One of the things once the actor gets out of the paradox, one of the very first things you know if you if you think about wrestling alligators and you think about the swamp your head is always down.


Curtis Morley: you’re always looking for the next alligator once you’re able to drain the swamp all of a sudden Now you can look up.


Curtis Morley: Now you can look up and you can see that on entrepreneur island there’s actually mountain ranges and it’s time to start climbing.


Curtis Morley: And so, one of the very first exercises that I worked through with entrepreneurs is picking which mountain range you’re going to climb.


Curtis Morley: And, and I have what’s called the success formula it’s a very different unique way to create a goal, specifically for entrepreneurship.


Curtis Morley: And, and with that goal is having people say all right i’m going to pick my mountain range and this was one of those Aha moments for that when I realized this i’m like whoa.


Curtis Morley: I never even considered this before is there’s only three mountain ranges and entrepreneur compliant.


Curtis Morley: there’s only three that’s it there, you know I always that well there’s all these possibilities know there’s only three the first is a lifestyle business.


Curtis Morley: The second is a buyer be bought business or you know acquisition merger.


Curtis Morley: And the third is an ipo that’s it those are the only mountain ranges that an entrepreneur can climb.


Curtis Morley: And once that realization is there, then there’s a starting point, then there’s a way to say you know what.


Curtis Morley: This is where I want to go yeah I just I really do just want a lifestyle business or you know I want to build an amazing rapid growth company that i’m buying other companies and, one day, I have an acquisition.


Curtis Morley: Or you know I want to get on Wall Street and and once that’s the case, and once we start seeing the goal and working through the success formula then that’s where I see personally that’s where I see the entrepreneurs, you know turn their needle from this to this.


David Horsager: little bit well the lot more in the entrepreneurs paradox what, what do you learn in these days, what do you what’s what what’s new.


David Horsager: How do you keep innovating and learning these days.


Curtis Morley: You know it’s.


Curtis Morley: wow.


Curtis Morley: There you just sold you just sold your fifth.


David Horsager: Company you wrote this book you’re definitely consulting and helping people a lot, but what are you learning today a lot of people say what did what did someone learn, I want to know what you learned today.


Curtis Morley: it’s it’s a daily habit, it is a daily habit on my phone, I have an APP that counts, things and and I have daily routines that I go through, and one of those is.


Curtis Morley: is learning One of those is is is getting out and understanding things like your podcasts like love your podcasts are so many amazing guests and so many great insights and.


Curtis Morley: and actually the last several years have on a personal basis, but actually been really a struggle and very painful and I sat down with a friend for lunch and he said something so amazing he said curtis life doesn’t happen to you life happens for you.


Curtis Morley: And, and that changed my thinking entirely that life is a blessing, the good things, and the trials are all blessings and that’s where I stopped, but then last month.


Curtis Morley: David Meltzer put a post up that said life doesn’t happen to you.


Curtis Morley: Life happens through you.


Curtis Morley: pencil.


Curtis Morley: It took my thinking to a whole new level but life actually does happen for me doesn’t happen to me it’s not there’s no victim it happens, for me, but it also can, if I let it, it can happen through me I can become I can go from victim to Victor to vessel.


David Horsager: I love it.


Curtis Morley: I can become a vessel.


David Horsager: We have a huge opportunity as leaders, because we can influence so many others, and those of us to get to give others jobs, what a gift to you know and a whole nother way of of influencing families people hopefully the world.


David Horsager: But so life doesn’t happen to you, it happens for you, but it can happen through you.


David Horsager: say that last part vessel.


Curtis Morley: yeah instead of like if my attitude is that life happens to me i’m a victim, if my attitude is that life happens for me also may turn into a victor.


Curtis Morley: What if I say life happens through me now i’m a vessel for something greater than myself.


David Horsager: boom drop.


David Horsager: I like it let’s.


David Horsager: Be vessels let’s be trusted vessels that’s what i’ll say about that, because we can be all kinds of vessels so let’s be trusted leaders trusted vessels so.


David Horsager: let’s Let me touch on just a couple of things here what what what’s motivating you these days you’ve been through a lot you’ve had you know I know you’ve got the training for Boston and some you know fun side things but what’s what’s motivating you toward what’s next.


Curtis Morley: um It really is tapping into my purpose on this planet and and i’ve got this.


Curtis Morley: Huge audacious goal, I want to help a million entrepreneurs reach the next level success, I want to help them find the success, not only in their business.


Curtis Morley: But in their personal lives and in their mission find success and so that’s my goal is that is helping million entrepreneurs and.


Curtis Morley: It happens with the book with the coaching mentoring, it happens with my students it’s it’s so rewarding to be able to say wait wait wait, I know where you’re going to make this mistake and don’t make it.


Curtis Morley: I can save you all of this pain years of pain, I can save you let me just help you with this one thing and that’s that’s what I love is is just truly helping people to to find themselves and then find their purpose in their business.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Well, for everybody out there there’s a whole lot in here I love this I was going to ask a few more questions but we’ve got a whole lot in here but let’s not be victims let’s not be victor’s and sit there let’s be vessels as trusted leaders.


David Horsager: i’ve got one more question for you, before I get to that, though.


David Horsager: This has been the trusted leader show everybody can go and see the show notes you’re going to find out a whole lot more on curtis J morally you’ll find out.


David Horsager: You can get his book anywhere but you’ll find out a little bit more about the entrepreneurs paradox and make sure go pick up the book.


David Horsager: And last question curtis, who is a leader you trust and why.


Curtis Morley: wow.


Curtis Morley: that’s a phenomenal question.


Curtis Morley: first thing that came to mind was the number one leader of all.


Curtis Morley: In the Bible Christ, the second was, I have a dear friend and he’s someone that I actually want to be like no because they shot him and he’s the CEO of zero rez formerly one of the Presidents of Franklin covey and.


Curtis Morley: He is he he exemplifies trust in so many ways, and actually you know, this is not platitudes you’re one of those David.


Curtis Morley: You truly are there you impacted my life, the very first time I met you you impacted my life deeply you shared the story about your dad.


Curtis Morley: And the magazine in the truck and that impacted my life severely that was so so meaningful to me and I appreciate how you you live, the principles you teach and.


Curtis Morley: yeah i’m truly grateful for that.


David Horsager: Well, thank you, thank you for that I just had team meeting this morning and and vulnerable talked about how I wish I would live out what I say, even more so i’m still working on it every day to live out exactly what I believe and.


David Horsager: continue on this journey to high trust leadership, but.


David Horsager: Well, thank you for from all the listeners, thank you for me and our friendship for being on the show curtis and like we said, you can find everything in the show notes, this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 33: Mark Batterson on How To Harness Daily Habits To Achieve Your Goals

In this episode, David sits down with Mark Batterson, New York Times Best-Selling Author and Lead Pastor, to discuss how to harness the power of daily habits to achieve your goals and dreams.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Mark’s Bio:
Mark Batterson is the lead pastor of National Community Church in Washington, DC. One church with multiple locations, NCC owns and operates Ebenezers Coffeehouse, The Miracle Theatre, and the DC Dream Center. NCC is currently developing a city block into The Capital Turnaround, the 100,000 sf space will include event venue, child development center, mixed-use marketplace and co-working space. Mark holds a Doctor of Ministry degree from Regent University and is the New York Times best-selling author of twenty books including, The Circle Maker, In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day, Wild Goose Chase, Play the Man, Whisper, and recently released Win the Day. Mark and his wife Lora have three children and live on Capitol Hill.

Mark’s Links:
Website: https://www.markbatterson.com/
Mark’s NEW Book “Win The Day”: https://amzn.to/3ilLTFb
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkBatterson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markbatterson/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/markbatterson

Key Quotes:
1. “Success is when those who know you best, respect you most.”
2. “You do little things like they’re big things.”
3. “We’re not just trying to build a church, we’re trying to bless a city.”
4. “We want to meet real needs in real time.”
5. “Yesterday is history, tomorrow’s a mystery.”
6. “Whatever goal you’re going after you have to reverse engineer it into daily habits.”
7. “Can you do it for a day?”
8. “Anybody can do anything for a day.”
9. “Its really about winning streaks and losing streaks.”
10. “Time is measured in minutes. Life is measured in moments.”
11. “You have to establish boundaries.”
12. “Change of pace plus change of place equals change of perspective.”
13. “My job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.”
14. “Harder is better.”
15. “Truth is found in the tension of opposites.”
16. “We’ve got to find ways personally to create our own grand gestures.”
17. “May you die young at a ripe old age.”
18. “Without a vision, the people perish.”
19. “You have to be unoffendable.”
20. “If we keep checking our ego at the door some really good things could happen.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Win The Day” by Mark Batterson: https://amzn.to/3ilLTFb
“Deep Work” by Cal Newport: https://amzn.to/3gguI5c
“Upstream” by Dan Heath: https://amzn.to/3z34hZc
Timehop: https://www.timehop.com/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and i’m just thrilled about the guest, we have today, he is trusted by many and.


David Horsager: he’s a new friend of ours, but you’ve heard of him he’s a New York 20 time New York Times bestselling author.


David Horsager: He is the lead pastor of national community church in Washington DC.


David Horsager: You got to hear about he how he did things differently there, whether you’re a corporate leader, a government leader or a faith based leader we’re going to talk about some things they.


David Horsager: ncc owns and operates Ebenezer is copy house the miracle theater the DC dream Center, which is an amazing story.


David Horsager: of faith and leadership and CC is developing, right now, a city block into the capital turnaround the 100,000 square feet of space will include an event venue child development Center mixed use marketplace co working space.


David Horsager: Mark holds a doctorate from Regent universities like I said before, New York Times bestselling author of over 20 books or 20 books circle maker.


David Horsager: pitted along in a pit with a lion on a snowy day wild goose chase play the man whisper he just released a book we’re going to talk about a little bit, and that is when the day.


David Horsager: mark and his wife Laura, I have three children they live on Capitol Hill and he is the real deal thanks for coming on the show mark.


Mark Batterson: David Thank you and I am a native minnesotan born in minneapolis, and so we have a little bit of a connection there.


David Horsager: We do, and I got talked into going on 100 mile bike ride with you this summer I don’t know if you’ve got talked to it or not, but our friends that that awesome and father for the fatherless supporting their work, I think we’re going to be riding together this summer right or I might.


Mark Batterson: love it we sure are we’re going to bike 100 miles and I love having an annual challenge or an annual adventure.


Mark Batterson: That kind of pushes me outside of my comfort zone, it gives me something to train for and and so in this case it’s a bike in 100 miles and we’ll just we’ll pep talk each other.


Mark Batterson: We.


David Horsager: long ago, and you just reminded me that six months, two days out well I you know 10 years ago now, I lost 52 pounds in five months and I am basically I just now have this metric for every.


David Horsager: January it’s like get back into the right so i’ll go up now 10 pounds, you know back 10 but then I always come back down so it’s like every year, I need this rhythm checkpoints so that.


David Horsager: Instead of being 50 you know i’m 40 off for a little while around Christmas and then back to you know it’s like you got to have that check in.


David Horsager: And yeah come back to it.


Mark Batterson: You know I can’t believe you just drop that little fact, because now, I have 100 questions for you, I want to.


Mark Batterson: I want to hack your habits and I want to reverse engineer how that happened because I.


Mark Batterson: I lost 30 pounds in three months, which I thought was pretty impressive, but I think you just.


Mark Batterson: hit us.


Mark Batterson: You went up me or 22 pounds up me.


David Horsager: Well, that just means I went further astray right so.


David Horsager: um I felt like I need to be living this what i’m.


David Horsager: Speaking and preaching out both physically spiritually mentally and all that and I just kind of convicted on I know better, I gotta do this differently so.


David Horsager: we’re going to get into hacking the habits, but I have to say one other personal note here because i’m going to hold it up for everybody watching.


David Horsager: One of mark’s book, you can see, it had a big impact on our family we’re actually not quite done with it right now, but we started reading it on Christmas break, we often the one before that you would know Bob golf book.


David Horsager: But this book it’s called the circle maker, and we want to get into your new book and new work, maybe.


David Horsager: Do this and I want to talk about ncc and then we want to jump to the new book, so the circle maker, a couple things you said in this book.


David Horsager: And this gets to our pillar of character and the trust work my desire is that the people who know me the best.


David Horsager: would respect me.


David Horsager: The most tell me about that.


Mark Batterson: yeah I want to be famous in my own home David and it’s hard to be famous in your home if you aren’t home, and so I love, what I do i’m a entrepreneur by instinct that that includes starting a church, but, as well as that you know, a coffee house, a dream Center and we have.


Mark Batterson: $29 million building that dates to 1891 the navy yard car barn that we are currently developing as quite a project one mile from the capital, I love those things I love writing books but, at the end of the day.


Mark Batterson: i’m a husband to my wife i’m a father to my kids and that’s really how I try to judge myself because man, if you.


Mark Batterson: are going to get all five star reviews I don’t care, who you are, you can be the best author and you have to.


Mark Batterson: figure out who it is at the end of the day is really who’s going to come to your funeral you know those eulogy virtues that I think David brooks talks about so.


Mark Batterson: yeah success is when those who know you best respect you most is my wife it’s my kids and you know I think part of being you know, to borrow your phrase ology part of being a trusted LEADER I think is being better and private than you are in public.


David Horsager: Undeniably, I think we talked about all the time, you know.


David Horsager: In fact, when we did the research, the original research, one of the marks of leaders was you know doing what’s right even not just when no one’s looking, but when you don’t feel like it.


David Horsager: Yes, there’s a big push these days right do what you feel like like like.


David Horsager: Our our parents.


David Horsager: or parents today yo shout to their kids hey go have fun.


David Horsager: Well, I never showed that to my kids it’s a big joke in the family, we talked about go be good if you’ve read kelly’s work, maybe in the research there that shows the more you be good, the better fun, you have if you seek pleasure pleasure sake and in your life, you always get less right.


David Horsager: And you seek pleasure pleasures just for pleasure sake physically financially sexually you will always hurt someone and yourself do what’s right and you actually have a.


David Horsager: Satisfaction or fun that’s true or so interesting i’m going to come back to this week, we do need to get to know you a little bit at least our audience, perhaps, what about ncc in the start of that and just a bit about you.


Mark Batterson: yeah we we started a church with 19 people on Capitol Hill in 1996 and can I can I give the very short version.


David Horsager: Please.


Mark Batterson: I think, nine months in there were three keys a $50 check the 4.7 mile prayer walk which I detail in the circle maker, and a $400 drum set.


Mark Batterson: This is it’s going to leave a lot of blank space in between, but you know, we now have a DC dream Center that served 55,000 meals during the Kobe crisis in 2020.


Mark Batterson: we’ve done 273 mission trips given $25 million to missions, but it started with a $50 check i’m a big believer you do little things like they’re big things and, at least in my faith matrix gotta do big things like their little things.


Mark Batterson: And so, and then at 4.7 mile prayer walks somehow it is translated into six properties that we own on that prayer circle worth about $75 million and.


Mark Batterson: David, I want to, I want to be careful here because that’s kind of coming out of the gates and throwing out some numbers, but again it’s a 25 year.


Mark Batterson: trajectory and we’re not just trying to build a church we’re trying to bless a city and and.


Mark Batterson: You know, good example of that is we’re bringing a child development Center to our city here in about a month’s time and it’s one of our mayor’s top initiatives, and so we want to meet real needs in real.


Mark Batterson: Time and so we can come back to some of those things but.


Mark Batterson: yeah.


David Horsager: I want to say it’s a great journey and it’s a great story of faith and leadership, and I think for everybody, you know whether you’re running a business or a government or a ministry.


David Horsager: stewardship matters, and I think one thing about that i’ve talked to when I talked to you know.


David Horsager: pastoral leaders or ministry leaders is especially churches are it’s it’s almost it’s the stewardship thing it’s like it’s used one in many cases, one day a week or a few hours.


David Horsager: Basically, a week and we get these build big beautiful buildings that could actually be reaching people and touching people in so many other ways if we thought entrepreneurial Lee or at least differently.


Mark Batterson: yeah absolutely and you know, there are ways of doing church that no one’s thought of that’s kind of what gets me up in the morning keeps me up at night, and I would say the same thing in any industry, I mean come on netflix walk walk into blockbuster and and offer to.


Mark Batterson: To be sold and blockbuster turns down the $50 million offer of what is now 120 $5 billion company, they were stuck in the past, instead of thinking forward, and so, whatever it is, from business to.


Mark Batterson: To nonprofit I think what got us here the course isn’t necessarily going to get us where we need to go next, and if if the coven crisis has taught us anything, it might be that that the game is kind of changing right under our feet in 1000 different ways.


David Horsager: So how are you innovating these days, how are you.


David Horsager: You know what are you thinking now like what’s the even what’s the big dream now.


Mark Batterson: yeah well there’s been a shift in terms of philosophy and priority that we’ve realized that in the world that I live in it’s very easy to.


Mark Batterson: Go to church check a box and check out Monday to Friday, but but it’s got to be a daily thing you know whether you call it when the day or the daily edge David.


Mark Batterson: Either way, I yesterday’s history tomorrow’s mystery you really have to learn to win the day and so we’re kind of changing the way that we approach things and helping people perhaps the way I would say it is be less codependent on a pastor.


Mark Batterson: And a little bit more intrinsic motivation and the ability to practice certain daily habits that will help them grow spiritually and, of course, that has a huge emotional intellectual and relational payoff.


David Horsager: Well, we might come back to the circle maker, because I was so when we’ve been so impacted by it, but let’s let’s talk about when the day a little bit here.


David Horsager: what’s first of all, why did you write this one, I mean 20 books New York you’re hitting striking a chord it’s not like people that write a bunch of books and don’t I mean New York Times bestseller that is not easy so but tell us about this one, why this one, why now.


Mark Batterson: Well, whatever goal you’re going after yet you have to reverse engineer it into daily habits and so we’re gonna ride this bike ride August 28.


Mark Batterson: Well, we better be reverse engineering and have a have a training plan and we need to know how many miles we’re going to cover to kind of prepare ourselves for that moment, and so.


Mark Batterson: A few years ago and I don’t want to sound like a ultra marathon athlete because I am not, but I did run one marathon.


Mark Batterson: And the only way you do it is by doing 72 training runs that cover 475 miles, then, and only then, are you able to accomplish that goal, so what I wanted to do.


Mark Batterson: Was go ahead and identified the lag measures that you want, but you, you have to reverse engineer identified those lead measures.


Mark Batterson: And they’re really put them into practice and so came up with seven habits, to help you stress less and accomplish more and whatever it is, is going to happen one day at a time.


David Horsager: This is great, you know 75 75% of New York resolutions new New York also.


David Horsager: By the way, new year’s resolutions fail.


David Horsager: In the first month, what are we doing about that.


Mark Batterson: yeah we get overwhelmed when you think in those long timelines I love asking the question can you do it for a day.


Mark Batterson: David, no one has ever said no to that whether you’re trying to break a habit or make a habit anybody can do anything for a day.


Mark Batterson: And it’s really about winning streaks and losing streaks I mean very few people their lives it’s, not a single mistake it’s allowing that mistake to be repeated and become a bad habit and then you have to of course flip that coin and you’ve got to figure out how to.


Mark Batterson: get those small wins, and then you start getting a winning streak and guess what in fact I would even throw this out there anybody who’s ever been through a.


Mark Batterson: They can tell you how many days they’ve been sober yeah it’s this idea is, if you want every day to count, you have to count the days, in fact, do we have time for kind of a fun quick story.


David Horsager: let’s do it.


Mark Batterson: A couple of years ago I did a talk for buzz Williams Virginia tech at the time is now that Texas a&m basketball coach but.


Mark Batterson: They make it to the sweet 16 they’re playing Duke i’ve known buzz for a long time, he said, come and talk to the team, and so I gave a talk it didn’t help, they still lost to do my apologies, but.


Mark Batterson: i’ll never forget, something that buzz said he told the team that it was day 1811 as the coach of Virginia tech.


Mark Batterson: Okay, David everybody who’s listening to this podcast right now how many of you can name the the exact number of days that you have been in your current employment.


Mark Batterson: It was so impressive to me that here is someone who is so conscientious about making every day count.


Mark Batterson: That he counts the days, and so I think you know part of what I want to try to accomplish is you got to live in a tight compartments you got to live like it’s the first day and last day of your life and part of that.


Mark Batterson: A wise writer of wisdom literature, the Psalms just said number your days it’s this idea of counting the days, so that you make those days count.


David Horsager: I love it, you know you talk about in the book the breaking.


David Horsager: The best way to break a habit tell me about that.


Mark Batterson: yeah.


David Horsager: Is that’s the problem like yeah.


David Horsager: We we want to have i’ll just tell you one time, I said to an audience I said how many of you would like to have a new habit, how many I want to have and i’m saying you know.


David Horsager: You know all the audience went up all their hands went up right, and then I said Okay, how many of you have ever you all want to how many have you ever actually broken or started a new habit, like last year, you know 20 pounds or more.


David Horsager: quit smoking, whatever it is, some reasonable habit like 6% everybody wants to.


Mark Batterson: yeah but.


David Horsager: almost nobody does.


David Horsager: How, how do you do it.


Mark Batterson: Well, the idea of habit stalking is become really, really popular the idea of coupling.


Mark Batterson: A harder habit to cultivate with with one that comes more, naturally, but I would I like this idea of habit switching that you, you take something.


Mark Batterson: A bad habit let’s call it complaining i’m sure there isn’t anybody listening to this podcast who complains but I know some people.


Mark Batterson: Who, they can complain about just about anything they’re just it’s masterful their ability to find something and i’m having a little bit of fun.


Mark Batterson: You have to in this is habit number one in the book, you have to flip the script how well.


Mark Batterson: I can turn a complainer into someone who is a very different person someone who’s grateful for almost everything almost all the time how.


Mark Batterson: gratitude journal it’s not complicated, you have to train that ridiculous activating system at the base of the brainstem which determines what we notice and goes unnoticed.


Mark Batterson: To look for things that you’re grateful for, and you have to write it down it’s the generation effect in psychology that if you write it down, you have a better memory, for it, you do that.


Mark Batterson: 30 days 40 days hundred days I don’t care, who you are I don’t care how ingrained that complaining habit is, I think we can flip that script if we do it enough days in a row.


David Horsager: I love that idea for two reasons, but.


David Horsager: One of our studies, found the most repelling traits and people you could name them right arrogance, all these different things right, but the number one most magnetic trait in individuals, maybe a smile right now oh empathy right oh number one most magnetic trading individuals gratitude.


David Horsager: um people love to be around those that are grateful.


David Horsager: And by the way, as we know, grateful people don’t tend to like almost all the negative.


David Horsager: skyway grateful people don’t tend to be entitled, they don’t make complainer’s they don’t tend to be you know and they don’t even smell bad right so grateful people I mean they are, they are magnetic.


David Horsager: And then that’s genuinely.


Mark Batterson: Grateful yeah you know what David that that is fascinating and this may be a little bit of a rabbit trail, but I think it’s worth it, you know in Judaism an Orthodox Jew would pronounce 100 blessings a day.


Mark Batterson: hmm it in the tall mood, which is a commentary on the Old Testament it says that.


Mark Batterson: If you fail to give thanks to God for a blessing it’s as if you have stolen it from him.


Mark Batterson: And so, this idea that.


Mark Batterson: Some of us are guilty of grand larceny you know, or at least petty petty shoplifting.


Mark Batterson: it’s this idea of giving thanks for absolutely everything, so my wife and I live by a little moniker little mantra flip the blessing.


Mark Batterson: So Whenever someone does something for us that we consider a blessing, we always look for a way to flip that that similar blessing for someone else and sometimes it’s in very, very small ways.


David Horsager: what’s it look like.


well.


Mark Batterson: i’m afraid to share this example, but it’s the one that.


Mark Batterson: Is the most pronounced in my life, our first years of church we moved into the movie theaters that Union station, but we didn’t have lights to illuminate that theater and i’ll never forget.


Mark Batterson: Someone gave us a $5,000 gift, it was a game changer at the time, our income was $2,000 a month as a church.


Mark Batterson: And that $5,000 gift I just it impacted us in a profound way I happen to sit on a charitable trust, where we do a lot of $5,000 gifts I happen to, we have to give a lot of $5,000 gifts as a church to clauses that we care about why, because every time we do it i’m flipping the blessing.


Mark Batterson: From what was given to us way back in 1996 and so but I.


Mark Batterson: i’m sorry, but if you give me a gift there’s also a good chance it’s going to get really gifted.


Mark Batterson: Because.


Mark Batterson: To me it’s more fun to get it, and then flip it and so most of my most of the gift cards that come my way end up in the hands of my children they love it.


Mark Batterson: that’s a good gift.


David Horsager: I love it so let’s uh let’s jump down here a little bit you, you did talk about the kindness distinction between minutes and moments.


Mark Batterson: yeah.


David Horsager: Tell me about it.


Mark Batterson: yeah time is measured in minutes life is measured in moments and it’s I love this, there are two words in the Greek language for time, one is kronos, which is where we get chronology.


Mark Batterson: it’s clock time and you and I both care about manage you know if you don’t manage your calendar your calendar will control you and so.


Mark Batterson: You know I believe in time management, no doubt, but the other word is kairos and it can be interpreted time or opportunity and David, this is kind of the the sixth sense it’s the the soft skills of leadership it’s recognizing.


Mark Batterson: Well, maybe the best way to say it is instead of just counting the actual cost it’s counting the opportunity costs, which is a.


Mark Batterson: Which is a much harder thing to do, but it’s the ability to read a situation or read another person and recognize.


Mark Batterson: Okay here’s a teachable moment if you’re a parent or here is an opportunity to take a risk if you’re in business and so that ability to identify those moments is huge and and.


Mark Batterson: What I want to do is help people not not just live a long life I would love to blow out 100 candles someday David I you know i’d love to live to 100 i’m calling me crazy.


Mark Batterson: But I really want to make sure that the moments add up to more than a few hours or a few days, because that that is where life becomes meaningful.


David Horsager: With that you do talk about time management, you have some tips on time management, or at least some thoughts on time management, you talk about even you don’t find time you make it but.


David Horsager: tell us how does that affect us we’re leaders around the world, we got, we have to deal in in this framework of time and people, and we want to.


David Horsager: mix it the right way and and do our call to leadership out facing, and we want to do our call the leadership in facing you know, to the family, what do you do.


Mark Batterson: yeah I would throw out just a couple of very practical tips and.


Mark Batterson: Some of these are hard lessons learned, I mean, for example, you have to establish boundaries why.


Mark Batterson: Because saying yes to one thing is saying no to something else, and so it goes back to this idea of I want to be famous in my home, I made a decision years ago that I would only do seven overnight speaking trips a year.


Mark Batterson: Why, because I was doing a lot more than that, and my family was getting not the best of me they were getting the leftovers, and so you have to make some of those hard decisions, but then, when it comes to kind of the the pragmatics.


Mark Batterson: let’s have a little bit of fun i’ll throw this out there because it’s one of my favorite studies, a NASA study found that a 26 minute nap increases productivity 34%.


Mark Batterson: wow.


David Horsager: And by the way, there’s a lot of people like to hear that.


Mark Batterson: yeah right.


David Horsager: You a napper do.


Mark Batterson: I am.


Mark Batterson: I am, and so, if I 90% of my creativity happens before noon not that’s my corona type i’m a morning person.


Mark Batterson: But if I take a nap I get to windows of creativity and so part of time management is kind of self knowledge of understanding the way that you’re wired and even when to do what tasks and so.


Mark Batterson: I will routine really quick like I mean, I want to come back to any tips, you have, but this is interesting for a lot of people, you know.


David Horsager: We talked about the importance of sleep and eating right exercising drinking water and source of strength if we’re gonna you know be great leaders it’s it starts a lot of times with self leadership.


David Horsager: yeah but tell us you’re just you know every routine is different, but what have you found for yourself.


David Horsager: Because you have a massive responsibility yeah.


well.


Mark Batterson: You know I don’t have different seasons and so in a writing season my routines are going to look a little bit different i’m going to set my alarm clock earlier in the morning.


Mark Batterson: i’ll build in some nap time now i’m feeling like i’m feeling a little childish, but I make no apologies for it.


Mark Batterson: i’ll have our teaching team carry a little bit more of the load I don’t take outside appointments beyond kind of our immediate context of our staff and there’s just no other way for me to write a book and so.


Mark Batterson: yeah I mean that’s what a writing season, you know, I have a start date I have an end date because of parkinson’s law if you have two weeks it’ll take two weeks, if you have two months it’ll take two months.


Mark Batterson: And so I have just kind of Jerry rigged my world in a way that I basically start on my birthday November 5.


Mark Batterson: I finished a book on super bowl Sunday, which is the first Sunday in February, and that gives me three months and it, it is the winter months by intention, because i’m i’m less inclined to be outside.


Mark Batterson: And I actually don’t mind getting up when it’s dark I feel like i’m beating the sunrise and it kind of gives me a jump on today.


David Horsager: So what time is that what time the on the writing months what time is that.


Mark Batterson: Well, it has a five in front of it we just got a puppy dog that.


Mark Batterson: totally destroyed our routine and rhythm and so now i’m walking her dog in the morning, which doesn’t which has given me a little bit later start.


Mark Batterson: But boy she’s cute so it’s worth it yeah.


David Horsager: So you have the five in front of it for.


David Horsager: Writing time and you write tell when and then, when you do your regular these ship stuff let’s take.


David Horsager: let’s just take January 10 on January 10 you know or November 27th we’ll start there you know what what was the writing he got up at this time, you started writing you what did what’s it just a quick rhythm of life for you in those.


David Horsager: In that phase.


Mark Batterson: Absolutely, I should just add a usually do a two day or three day writing retreat at the beginning of that season.


Mark Batterson: To kind of frame out my thoughts and then a two or three day to kind of close it out, but a normal day I it wouldn’t be uncommon for me to write from six in the morning till six at night and I live four blocks, from where I work, so I save commute time i’m home and five minutes so.


Mark Batterson: I try to be pretty religious about getting home at six o’clock and and then a nap kind of built in there in between and and sometimes it’s a nap but I know myself well enough sometimes it’s a it’s a five K it’s a 3.1 mile run, which is about a half hour.


Mark Batterson: or sometimes if I need a quick Joel it’s 20 push ups, and so I find or let’s be honest, I work right above our coffee House so sometimes it’s a second latte with two shots.


David Horsager: So that now now how is that different right now so you’re back in your off the writing season you’re back into the full on leadership kind of role what what’s that look like.


Mark Batterson: Well then, I have meeting days, where I stack meetings wall to wall because I want to be in meeting mode and then I have studied days, where you know much of what I do is is communicate and.


Mark Batterson: And one little.


Mark Batterson: kind of tip or trick David that has helped me.


Mark Batterson: You and I both believe in the importance of one on one with other people and investing in other people.


Mark Batterson: But I think leaders, also have to do the math and so i’m cognizant of the fact that if I take the number of people who attend our church times a 30 minute message.


Mark Batterson: It now adds up to about eight months of time, and so I better put aside 2025 sometimes 30 hours to prepare.


Mark Batterson: That one message, because i’ve got thousands of people who are giving me 30 minutes of their time, and so I tried to do the math.


Mark Batterson: With the different things that I do and it kind of helps me keep on task and part because i’m a people pleaser so it’s hard for me to say no to anybody for anything.


Mark Batterson: And so that’s kind of part of my process of trying to figure out how to spend my time so meeting days study days days that.


Mark Batterson: Maybe are more visionary and on those days here’s a little formula employ a change of pace, plus change of place equals change of perspective, and so I might go over to the national gallery of art, which is a few blocks for me.


Mark Batterson: I may walk the national mall but I need a change of place, and then I also need a change of pace and that kind of helps me get fresh perspective on some of the problems we’re trying to solve, and some of the goals that we’re trying to accomplish.


David Horsager: So many leaders have said this, you know that the, the key to as far as keeping learning reading and.


David Horsager: Travel you get your travel you get perspective so that can be outside your door, obviously, but it’s also I mean there’s something happen if you if you’re.


David Horsager: You know from Minnesota and you go to Bangkok and Dubai and Norway right or are you gonna kill me it’s like there’s some learning that happens that can’t happen almost without the experience so.


David Horsager: Whether that’s.


David Horsager: To the smithsonian where you are across the street or whether that’s you know own in nature.


Mark Batterson: And and David, can I just add one thing, because it can be a staycation you know it, it I occasionally do a silent retreat.


Mark Batterson: Where I turn off my phone I get rid of the white noise and I tried to do some what audiologist would call ear cleansing right because we have we’re constantly bombarded by.


Mark Batterson: News and fake news news in algorithms that are designed to keep us in our ECHO chambers and and kind of 100 other things, so I think a silent retreat, you can stay right where you are just turn off your phone and it’s a change of pace.


David Horsager: So you don’t have kids and.


David Horsager: Yes, right.


David Horsager: yeah so I mean.


David Horsager: i’m just a firm that I think I said it somewhere, but I don’t think i’ve said on the podcast you know for me back in 1999 we started our first business I had been in a.


David Horsager: director of youth and family organization before that, but.


David Horsager: When I I had this time things were going well, I was speaking 100 times a year, or whatever, and for me I didn’t have the limit, like you, had I was felt like that’s what i’m supposed to be doing.


David Horsager: But I had this time early on and I went away to a hermitage actually not far less than an hour from our place.


David Horsager: And you know got away a couple days and I didn’t you know I had this quiet, time is a neat place you don’t see anybody, they give you this.


David Horsager: Fresh bread cheese and apple like this basket of delicious foods, you know you don’t see anybody go and you’re by yourself and.


David Horsager: And all this and you can go for walks beautiful nature out there and everything but I came back from that and I was just clear on one thing, and it was just getting rid of the noise.


David Horsager: i’m supposed to go toward my graduate work and it’s supposed to be on trust.


David Horsager: And so, unlike a lot of people that go through the Grad work and then by the end of their thesis at the thesis like what am I going to do a thesis on.


David Horsager: Every paper ever wrote up until even the end was all around you know trust the leadership of that but I don’t know what happened exactly can’t explain it, but I knew after that time away exactly what I was supposed to do.


Mark Batterson: isn’t that interesting I bet there are a lot of people who right now are googling hermitage.


David Horsager: There you go.


yeah.


David Horsager: So this is this is fantastic tell us about this this equation in your in this most recent book when the day deliberate practice plus deliver desirable difficulty equals durable learning.


Mark Batterson: yeah you know i’m pulling those ideas from a few different sources and they’ll sound familiar to a lot of listeners deliberate practice, of course, is from Anders Ericsson who the brilliant.


Mark Batterson: psychologists who kind of coined the 10,000 hour rule, it was popularized by Malcolm gladwell but you know, he says there’s naive.


Mark Batterson: practice and deliberate practice and there’s a big difference if you if you play music or play sports, you know what i’m talking about there’s there’s a mindless way of doing things that actually will turn into bad habits.


Mark Batterson: And, and then desirable difficulty That to me is fascinating because David I define my job as a pastor or as a spiritual coach this way.


Mark Batterson: My job is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, and so I want to get people out of a comfort zone into a growth mindset.


Mark Batterson: And, and part of that is harder is better it just is look back at your life, what are the the moments that you cherish.


Mark Batterson: It well one of them is coming up for us it’s going to be that hundred mile bike ride our clods are going to be screaming at us and say what in the world were you thinking.


Mark Batterson: But it’s going to be an awesome moment because it’s going to be painful because it’s going to be hard because it’s going to push us, and so I think.


Mark Batterson: If it’s too easy we get bored if it’s too hard, we quit and so there’s this idea of J md just manageable difficulty which I love and it’s kind of that goldilocks zone of where we need to be and then that’s what results in that durable learning.


David Horsager: there’s so much more we could cover here you I can’t agree more that one thing i’m getting pushed on right now so i’ve been.


David Horsager: athletic coach or I guess a fitness coach and I did this, when I was really losing the weight is like push yourself until you’re sore doesn’t matter what you do push yourself into because if you do that, instead of just i’m.


David Horsager: Like I would get on the elliptical, which is good.


David Horsager: They you know she said, if you push it off till you’re sore that works for 48 hours, and that will help you that, because your muscles have to.


David Horsager: break down and build back up bigger and that will help you so much more and i’ve learned.


David Horsager: No matter what I do that’s like hit training, too, but it’s just like you can do it shorter, but if you just do push ups.


David Horsager: And do them again do another set doing those till you’re sore to set up, so you can’t do them anymore like pushing to that point all sudden you get stronger and turns out it’s a lot easier to stay healthy and other ways to but interesting yeah desirable difficulty.


Mark Batterson: Well, I think that’s it’s fascinating the according to the law of requisite variety.


Mark Batterson: If you do the same exercise over and over again, the same way it loses effectiveness, because your muscles adapt to it and so really what trainers do is They confuse your muscles.


Mark Batterson: And I think that that is so critical when it comes to self leadership and not just physically, but I found that to be true spiritually.


Mark Batterson: well.


Mark Batterson: Every year, well my most prized possession is a 1934 Thompson chain reference Bible that belong to my grandfather elmer Johnson, who, by the way, happened to be the first municipal judge of fridley Minnesota.


Mark Batterson: wow taught at northwestern taught at the University of Minnesota.


David Horsager: first place we lived in Minnesota was friendly Minnesota the base.


David Horsager: of an 86 year old lady Clara Miller.


David Horsager: wow no windows no bathroom no kitchen black mold on the walls.


David Horsager: that’s where, at least when I started.


David Horsager: It back in, as we have to tell our kids back in the 1900s when we started our first business.


Mark Batterson: Yes.


David Horsager: Come on, well leave Minnesota love it, you know.


Mark Batterson: We might have cross paths back.


Mark Batterson: So I want to every year what i’m getting at I want to have enough bibles to leave for my kids and grandkids.


Mark Batterson: Because I love seeing what he underlined and what he wrote in the margin, but the other thing I do is I choose a different translation.


Mark Batterson: Because it makes my synopsis fire in a little bit different way, so it almost kind of confuses maybe the version that i’ve memorized I want to hear it in a different way, so that it produces some different thoughts and so, and you know just beyond beyond the Bible.


Mark Batterson: Ivan Pavlov said, if you want to new ideas read old books.


Mark Batterson: And so you know it’s it’s reading anything and everything that will just make you think in slightly different ways, and I might add.


Mark Batterson: Reading some things that you should read some books that you don’t completely agree with when you’re done.


Mark Batterson: Otherwise you fall into this binary thinking, but I live by this little maxim that truth is found in the tension of opposites true wisdom has two sides and so we’ve got to get better.


Mark Batterson: As a culture and get better as leaders at looking things from different angles and and that’s coming from someone who has.


Mark Batterson: Hundreds of hill staffers and dozens of members of Congress and cabinet members.


Mark Batterson: who attend our church and we are bipartisan we have people across the aisles, and so what we’re trying to do is sort of stand in that gap.


Mark Batterson: And we’ve got to be able to dialogue back and forth, and I think when you do that, you come up with you realize it’s not just a or B David it’s sometimes see.


David Horsager: We need it so much right now and we talked about building trust across you don’t have to like people to trust them and to build trust right this.


David Horsager: This whole idea, there was an article this week from a PhD from a bio that wrote basically oh man I wish I had in front of it, we can put in the show notes, but basically seeing both sides right yes.


David Horsager: And we if we could do more, that we could actually have a conversation see people as people there’s a whole lot of research on how what one reason trust has gone down and capital hills.


David Horsager: In the old days they’d ride the train all the way back to California together the Democrat or republican they would spend time together they go for a beer together at night.


David Horsager: They never see they don’t see each other as humans now because they never spend time together they come they battle on the House floor like senate floor they go back they don’t see each other and there’s a host of other reasons, as you know, i’ve.


David Horsager: worked with a group in Congress trying to build trust across Republicans and democrats across senators and representatives and it’s great work today, I mean it’s not great work it’s when I say great I mean like i’m holding heaviness right.


David Horsager: Yes, oh yeah.


David Horsager: Work but it’s it’s even more so because of a lot of the ways we’re.


David Horsager: systemized against trust on the Hill and in our government and there’s there’s a whole lot more to say about that.


David Horsager: yeah.


Mark Batterson: Well, David on.


Mark Batterson: on behalf of everybody, listening to this podcast keep doing that.


David Horsager: Well, I often one time I flew back from Congress, I was in front of this group.


David Horsager: You know, and speaking and the CEO introduced me said well he’s he spoken to Congress before and, obviously, is not very good.


David Horsager: Clearly.


David Horsager: it’s not making a difference may, at least from what we know so.


David Horsager: Anyway, we keep on we keep on keeping on.


David Horsager: there’s so much more to the book when the day there’s so much more of the others, maybe one more thought on when the day here I want you to just touch on the grand gesture, and what that means.


Mark Batterson: it’s it’s one of my favorite parts of the book, you know, there is a guy cal Newport who wrote a wonderful book called deep work and and I think that’s where I first stumbled across the idea.


Mark Batterson: But but let’s be honest, it grand gesture is nothing new it’s as old as Noah building a very big boat.


Mark Batterson: it’s this idea that when it comes to life goals you do have to reverse engineer them into daily habits into small wins, but there are moments David when you’ve got to.


Mark Batterson: Go big or go home, you have to make a dramatic decision I won’t ruin the book but it’s one of my favorite stories about.


Mark Batterson: If you wondered how we got all of these skyscrapers How did the world gets so tall I would credit, the inventor of the elevator safety break who pulled off one of the greatest sales pitches ever in the.


Mark Batterson: world’s fair His name was aleister Otis and now i’ve kind of I have shared a little bit, but i’ll say that cutting the rope was a key part of his stunt.


Mark Batterson: In.


David Horsager: Those one of the principles in the book.


Mark Batterson: Yes, and.


Mark Batterson: Yet the.


David Horsager: Seven habits.


Mark Batterson: yep habit number five and we’ve got to find ways to personally.


Mark Batterson: To create our own grand gestures to two simple examples, for me, when I was 19 I walked into the admissions office at the University of Chicago.


Mark Batterson: And I said, you can have your scholarship back, and it was a defining moment for me, I had a full ride scholarship I was playing basketball.


Mark Batterson: On paper, it was perfect, but I felt like there was something else for me to pursue and giving up that scholarship it was a grand gesture that not everybody agreed with.


Mark Batterson: But it was a it was a turning point packing all of our belongings into a 15 foot hall yeah 15 foot U haul and moving to Washington DC with no place to live and no guaranteed salary was a.


Mark Batterson: grand gesture, and so, and I would say, using my 35th birthday, to set a book deadline was a grand gesture So what is it that you need to self imposed, so to speak, what is that commitment device that it’s going to help you go after that goal, that is in your heart.


David Horsager: A grand just, even though I really this is so critical I just think of so many things, for me, you know where where the little things, make the big difference.


Mark Batterson: No doubt about it.


David Horsager: But the big gesture for me.


David Horsager: Yet funny one for you back when I mean I didn’t have much, then you know, and I said I knew I had to lose the weight.


David Horsager: I told the staff i’d give 20 $500 to eat if I wasn’t at my high school weight by May 1 for me that was a little grand gesture to say I am I was like what are you talking about.


David Horsager: But that planting in the standard saying i’m going to give you 20 $500 and, of course, what do they start doing bringing in donuts but you know, but I.


David Horsager: wanted to.


David Horsager: I had to make a mark out loud that i’m committed to this right oh you something big.


David Horsager: You know let’s go let’s a little fun play on words here but go back full circle to circle maker for two because everybody should get when the day I just your work is fantastic inspiring inspiring it’s actionable.


David Horsager: And you know what it’s true, and so you can look up mark batson with a B bateson and if you if you don’t know how many of you do when the day is his new book we’ve got to go back to a couple ideas here.


David Horsager: In the circle maker.


David Horsager: To highlighted sentences one May you die young at a ripe old age.


Mark Batterson: yeah.


David Horsager: I could explain it.


David Horsager: i’ve read it and underlined it but.


David Horsager: yeah let’s have you do it.


Mark Batterson: Oh, I love this word neon honey it’s the retention of youth what qualities into adulthood don’t you love I love someone who is young, who is maybe wise beyond their years.


Mark Batterson: But I love someone who is old, who has this playful spirit, who has this holy curiosity about life, who, who knows that they are not finished and so it’s this idea of.


Mark Batterson: yeah of retaining those youthful qualities and and I talked about it, some in when the day to with wind, the clock this we it would be a whole nother podcast on Ellen Langer and her work with mindfulness and the way that well one thing, do you know how a doctor ascertain your age.


Mark Batterson: The way everybody else by.


Mark Batterson: Asked asking your birth date there’s no other way for them to know, and if you don’t believe that different people age at different rates, you have not been to a class reunion.


Mark Batterson: And so there is a way, I think, to stay young and part of it, David is vision, without a vision, the people perish but with a vision you’re never past your Prime it’s something it almost acts as a preservative that kind of keeps us young, because we have something that we’re going after.


David Horsager: I think one of one of the parts in the book that I loved about that idea, by the way, was this this how we’ve even statistically lost the ability to dream we start as kids were dreaming about this dreaming about that dream and there’s a lot of.


David Horsager: Data on how we stop learning as much once we go to a public education system in some ways, but.


David Horsager: What I just started thinking about what about dream my dad it was similar to when your stories in the book and i’m so grateful for him a lot of my trust really work comes.


David Horsager: Not from the research but living under a great leader on a farm going up, but I was with him recently 91 runs a you know they have I don’t know 1500 acres 1200 or something like that.


David Horsager: But I looked at this this new beautiful grove he planted all these fruit and flowering trees, it was a it’s about a half mile.


David Horsager: or a mile from our House so it’s a whole it’s a different property it’s across a tar road and whatever but it’s part of their land, I said well you know yeah what we kind of thinking here dead he’s an all he said was somebody will enjoy it.


David Horsager: Some somebody will enjoy this.


David Horsager: and


David Horsager: I just thought yeah he’s not thinking about himself at all they’re not going to be, you know, even if he gets the century, which I think he will.


David Horsager: he’s not going to see the fruit of that Labor so so that gets us to the at least my last question from the book and then I got to ask you a quick fire questions, a close, but the think long idea yeah so tell me about that that’s that’s.


David Horsager: kind of that idea of my dad right.


Mark Batterson: It really is in fact the book revolves around this true legend about honing the circle maker, who draws a circle.


Mark Batterson: kneels in that circle and said sovereign Lord I swear before your name that I will not leave this circle until you send.


Mark Batterson: Rain it’s a prayer that saved a generation, while they were in a devastating drought, but there’s a second story that I share in the book that.


Mark Batterson: I might like it just as much that he’s walking by someone planting a care of tree that takes 70 years to mature and.


Mark Batterson: says why why Why are you doing that you’re not going to see you’re not going to enjoy the fruit of the tree and he said well my parents planted trees for me and i’m planting them.


Mark Batterson: For my grandchildren and so it’s this mindset of the 200 year present I write about it a little bit in in when the day ELISE bolding it’s this idea that.


Mark Batterson: we’ve got it, you know someone was born 100 years ago and then their babies being born today that will live to 100 so we kind of live in this 200 year present and we’ve got to.


Mark Batterson: Think about that third and fourth generation, we think, right here, right now, but but it’s always about the third and fourth generation, and so, if you want to do something that’s big you’re gonna have to think long.


Mark Batterson: And I think you have to have some life goals David that are going to take a lifetime to accomplish and again that’s kind of what keeps us young and.


Mark Batterson: By the way, on that note, you know i’ve got 100 life goals i’ve got seven steps to setting life goals and that’s free to anybody who wants it.


Mark Batterson: Could I share my website, just in case.


David Horsager: you’re gonna want us.


David Horsager: let’s do that right now.


David Horsager: And we’ll put it all in the show notes trusted leader show.com but.


Mark Batterson: yeah.


David Horsager: Where can we find you where’s the best place let’s let’s stop right now to do it.


Mark Batterson: yeah mark Patterson calm and there’s nothing that cost anything on that site it’s all my goal David has to add value and, if I can add value then that puts a smile on my face and so.


Mark Batterson: i’m a big believer in life goals you want to accomplish 100% of the goals you don’t set and then I share seven steps to setting those life goals and so folks can find it right there.


David Horsager: Perfect mark patterson.com we’ll put that in the show notes.


David Horsager: Well, here we go, we gotta we gotta land this plane, this has been a treat we could have three more of these probably five more and I can’t wait to be biking next to you until I need to catch my breath and grab a glass of water and August, but um let’s.


David Horsager: let’s go couple of our quickfire questions not going to go through all of them today, but a favorite book or resource right now.


Mark Batterson: Oh, my okay right right now.


Mark Batterson: Upstream is a book that i’m reading right right now I think well since you’re in Minnesota it’s the headwaters of the Mississippi river right.


Mark Batterson: By the time it gets to New Orleans wow there’s a lot of power there’s a lot of water rushing into the Gulf, but it always starts upstream, and I think that’s true with habits it’s true with character.


Mark Batterson: I bet you would even say it’s true with trust you know it’s this idea of going upstream.


David Horsager: love it do you have a favorite I don’t know APP or gadget or.


David Horsager: Maybe it is a productivity tip again but.


Mark Batterson: yeah I really like time hop i’m a pretty future oriented person, but time hop reminds me, you know shows me pictures from a year to 10 years ago and I kind of like that it keeps me grounded and reminds me to keep evolving my fashion as well.


David Horsager: All right, one two questions left.


David Horsager: one.


David Horsager: going to go to this one one big hope for the future, yet maybe it’s one of your top maybe 20 or hundred goals but what’s it what’s your big hope big bucket list big hope for the future that you’re thinking about right now.


Mark Batterson: wow if we’re talking go big or go home.


Mark Batterson: I just I really want our church to demonstrate what it looks like to be a multicultural Community this idea that Dr King talked about it being a beloved community.


Mark Batterson: And I happen to believe that church ought to be the most diverse place on the planet and the most creative place on the planet.


Mark Batterson: And those are two sides of the same coin, so if you’re if you’re asking me what i’m hoping for, I really would love for us to demonstrate what it looks like to have our differences, not divide us, but be something that we celebrate and.


Mark Batterson: And we’re working hard towards that and and finding our way forward.


David Horsager: I gotta jump in here, how do you do it, you know every people are working, whether it’s companies or.


David Horsager: You know, all kinds of organization churches were trying to create the beauty of healthy diversity and inclusion and equity, how are you doing it, people said to me, the most the least diverse day of the of the week is Sundays at 11am right or at least the first time, how do you do it.


Mark Batterson: yeah no easy answer is, you know.


Mark Batterson: You have to be on defendable For starters, I think you have to put pride on the altar.


Mark Batterson: I think you have to stay humble and stay hungry and those sound like nice maxim but that’s a mindset it’s a mindset and I would add one more thing to the mix.


Mark Batterson: And this is something that my mentor taught me David two kinds of people in the world, the first kind of person walks into a room and they’re thinking here, I am.


Mark Batterson: They see themselves as the solution, they they their ego barely fits through the door it’s all about me myself and I second kind of person.


Mark Batterson: There you are it’s all about everybody else it’s all about adding value it’s not going to happen until we have this there you are kind of mindset and.


Mark Batterson: And so i’m grateful for a mentor who taught me that a few years ago and that’s how I try to approach live I think if if we keep checking our ego at the door some really good things can happen.


David Horsager: there’s so much more.


David Horsager: Thanks mark it’s.


David Horsager: been fun.


David Horsager: can’t wait to see, and maybe i’ll see it before then, but the final question it’s the trusted leader show we asked this one to everybody who’s a leader you trust and why.


Mark Batterson: um I would probably go right back to that mentor of mine he’s a former college President he’s a former pastor worked on Capitol Hill for many years, in fact.


Mark Batterson: helped that national prayer breakfast happen in February, every year, his name’s deke Fo.


Mark Batterson: And he’s someone that is invested in my life immeasurably took me under his wing when I was pestering 19 people 25 years ago and.


Mark Batterson: I love surrounding myself with people who stretch my faith but who also keep me grounded.


Mark Batterson: And people who have been there and done that, and when I feel like panicking or I feel like the world is falling apart, I kind of go back to those elders those people that I trust and Dick faith is one of those people for me.


David Horsager: He is what a what a choice.


David Horsager: I met him see him speak.


David Horsager: You know bandwidth them and and there’s something about people like that just being with them you’re encouraged and inspired and he’s one of those peoples that there you are.


Mark Batterson: There you are.


David Horsager: Mark thanks so much for sharing with trusted leaders in our audience thanks for being my friend and thanks for thanks for this time together that’s the trusted leader show thanks for joining us until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 32: Waldo Waldman on Why Admitting Your Mistakes Strengthens Your Team

In this episode, David sits down with Waldo Waldman, Former Fighter Pilot, Hall of Fame Speaker, Executive Coach, and Author, to discuss why admitting your mistakes strengthens your team.

Buy David’s NEW Book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Waldo’s Bio:
Lt Col Waldo Waldman, MBA is a Hall of Fame leadership keynote speaker, executive coach, and author of the New York Times and Wall Street Journal Bestseller Never Fly Solo. Known as “The Wingman”, he’s an Air Force Academy graduate, combat decorated fighter pilot and expert in resilience, courage, and helping leaders accelerate performance in changing environments. His clients include Marriott, American Express, The Denver Broncos, and Verizon and he’s been featured on CNN, Fox News, and The Harvard Business Review. Visit www.YourWingman.com or connect with him on social media @WaldoWaldman.

Waldo’s Links:
Website: https://yourwingman.com/
“Never Fly Solo” book: https://amzn.to/3yQcgbQ
FREE download of “Never Fly Solo” audiobook: https://yourwingman.com/nfs/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldowaldman/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/waldowaldman
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waldowaldman/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/WingmanF16

Key Quotes:
1. “People want the raw, the real.”
2. “I like to refer to myself as a courage monger.”
3. “A wingman is a trusted partner.”
4. “It starts with you. The inner wingman.”
5. “Admitting your mistakes and showing your humanity and vulnerability is key.”
6. “Leadership starts with the person staring back at you.”
7. “People smell out and feel dissonance.”
8. “Make your friends your mentors and your mentors your friends.”
9. “Part of excellence is service.”
10. “Love is service in action.”
11. “You have to distract yourself from yourself.”
12. “You can’t see the big picture on your own.”
13. “Pain leads to peace.”
14. “We have a responsibility for our team.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Never Fly Solo” by Waldo Waldman: https://amzn.to/3yQcgbQ
FREE download of “Never Fly Solo” audiobook: https://yourwingman.com/nfs/
“How to Win Friends & Influence People” by Dale Carnegie: https://amzn.to/3fVivTh
“The Science of Mind” by Ernest Holmes: https://amzn.to/2R4sLjL

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager, we have a special guest today he is a dear friend, he is a New York Times, Wall Street Journal best selling author


David Horsager: He went to the US Air Force Academy. He’s a decorated combat veteran. He’s just an amazing leader.


David Horsager: He, you know, and we’re going to talk about this a little bit, but he’s one of the guys, I would say in our business because he’s speaking, all of them. He’s a Hall of Fame speaker.


David Horsager: He’s a guy that we would say is the same onstage and offstage, and I’m just grateful that he’s friend. Welcome to the show. Lieutenant Colonel Waldo Waldman you’ve got your MBA, you got it all. But you’re a leader of leaders and I just want to say thanks for being on


Waldo Waldman: You got it, David. Great to be here and Happy New Year.


David Horsager: Happy New Year. So there’s a lot of things I could say about you, your family, your life. Nowadays, but give us three things, Waldo, who are you


Waldo Waldman: So,


Waldo Waldman: My background as a fighter pilot is one thing, but I was I was having a little sales call this afternoon and I think, more than ever, people want the raw, the real who you are, the blood, not the muscle and so


Waldo Waldman: Especially during coded when things have changed a lot. You really sit and become more insightful and more more


Waldo Waldman: introspective about who you are. What drives you what you believe in. What’s your what I call you know the true north. Right. What gets you out of bed.


Waldo Waldman: Not necessarily. What keeps you up at night and I like to refer to myself as a courage monger


Waldo Waldman: Not a fear monger because Lord knows we see enough about that I give people courage. I want to give people the courage to take their actions to step out of their comfort zones to ask for help.


Waldo Waldman: To be okay with where they’re at, but not okay with with their complacency. I am a performance expert. I teach people, and in particular.


Waldo Waldman: The most of one wing man, there is a my life myself how to take action, every day and grow.


Waldo Waldman: So, so that’s kind of what it is, as far as, you know, professionally and what I do, but I’m also


Waldo Waldman: A proud father of a little, little wing man named as who turns 10 years old on Sunday. And then my wife Dana, who’s an amazing wingnut so I love family I love. I also love God, but that’s a whole nother story.


David Horsager: You can share any of it here, it’s a safe place. And we know you know trusted leaders, generally they are they, there’s a whole lot beyond their work those that are only focused on work usually aren’t as great at work.


David Horsager: One other thing that I think is really congruent with what you said, you know, we talked about trust, and I know you a lot of what you believe about it but but we talked about how, if you’re doing leadership alone, you’re doing it wrong.


David Horsager: Right. And you talk about being a wing man and what it takes, and what it means. Tell me about that.


Waldo Waldman: So I think a wing man or wing, ma’am.


Waldo Waldman: The ladies do we fly with are the type of people were others feel comfortable coming to for help.


Waldo Waldman: When you think about trust, in a way, man is a trusted partner. That’s what I I coined


Waldo Waldman: 20 years ago when I started working a wingman is a trusted partner business in life and how do you define that trust and you’re an expert in it, David.


Waldo Waldman: Is our do others feel comfortable coming to you for help. Are you an expert are you compassionate empathetic, or you courageous. Are you emulating the same things that you ask other people to do. And as a leader if other people can come to you for help.


Waldo Waldman: And they’re confident that you can help them and not rip their lungs out or kick him in the knees or criticize them, then you’re able to solve problems.


Waldo Waldman: And most companies that we work with are having problems with their people not being able to come to their leaders with their problems and possibly some solutions.


Waldo Waldman: To solve those problems. And that’s the key. How do you solve the problems. How do you get your people to perform and grow and sell future problems. And also, obviously.


Waldo Waldman: Help your clients because if you have a whole company of people


Waldo Waldman: where everyone’s comfortable going to each other for help in solving each other’s problems and you build that culture from the inside out, guess what.


Waldo Waldman: Now your prospects are going to feel confident and coming to you for help because every wing man or wing ma’am on your team is giving a service focus is competent and that’s how great companies flourish from the inside out and build great partners and revenue with their clients.


David Horsager: I want to get to the book in a moment because it really follows this. But before I do, you know that you, you think about this.


David Horsager: I mean, should say the book title New York Times bestseller never fly solo but we see a lot of leaders they have imposter syndrome. I’ve sat next to presidents of companies and presidents of countries and they’re scared to death. They’re going to be found out


David Horsager: They don’t want to share, who they are, what they’re


David Horsager: Really they they’re, they’re just in this, how do you, how do you you’re a leader. How do you show healthy vulnerability. How do you, how do you make an approachable environment where people were your


David Horsager: How do you get willing to ask for help. What do you do with that to some of these people that you know we’re sitting next to that or whether it’s ego or whatever in the way


Waldo Waldman: Right, right. It’s a great point, David.


Waldo Waldman: Number one, and I’m going to share some specifics that I learned as a fighter upon the course that I teach my clients.


Waldo Waldman: Is, is it starts with you what I call the inner wing, then the person staring back at you and you put your flight suit on every morning. Do you trust yourself.


Waldo Waldman: Are you full of baloney. Are you putting in the time to refine your flight plan to learn to pivot to demonstrate empathy and compassion and caring to say I need help, or I don’t know in front of your peers.


Waldo Waldman: To admit your mistakes 15 years ago I worked for a title company in California at the big meeting USA Today.


Waldo Waldman: Came out with an article front page of the paper or be in the business section. They made a horrific sin.


Waldo Waldman: It made the news. It was not good. And guess what people reading it at the at the buffet that morning, and that CEO came up there and said, Listen, we messed up.


Waldo Waldman: I’m sorry we you know we got to make this right but there’s no excuse. She was transparent, you know, look at what what Tylenol did when they had that whole issue Johnson and Johnson. Right. You know, when they admitted them mistake so admitting your mistakes and showing your humanity.


Waldo Waldman: And vulnerability is key. And it’s not to say if you’re always admitting mistakes and always showing vulnerability and messing up. Hey,


Waldo Waldman: Probably not credible probably not working on yourself, you probably need to go back into the hangar and the simulator and start working on your craft and technologies and tools and tech tactics. You got to be competent


Waldo Waldman: However, most leaders get to the position where they are, they are because they’re competent, but now those soft skills are key. I’m gonna share a quick example David


Waldo Waldman: Fighter pilots demonstrate acumen and teamwork and culture and growth through procedures called briefing.


Waldo Waldman: And debriefing right so I’m going to share a little bit about a debriefing what we do at the beginning of a debriefing is number one, we take off our rank.


Waldo Waldman: And our name tags because we don’t want to have our ego I er rank or our personalities are name tags, get in the way of growth, you’re a number. If it’s a four ship. It’s 1234 know Joe Mike Lisa and Sabrina know you are a number, right, and we


Waldo Waldman: Are an on an equal playing field. But the first thing that happens in a debrief, Dave. And this is important for your listeners.


Waldo Waldman: Is we go through the objectives. See if we hit them or not. And then the leader shares his or her mistakes. What did I do wrong. Here’s what I did. You know, I called


Waldo Waldman: Tanks dry or too early. I overachieved my jet. Look at the tapes. Here it shows me calling a kill, left hand turn band at 22,000 feet. The purple wasn’t on I messed up.


Waldo Waldman: Well, I didn’t call out the the emergency airfields. What is that going to do, Dave. For the rest of those teammates those Young Guns may be brand new to the squad and when it comes time for them to share what are they going to do, Dave, you know the answer.


David Horsager: They’re going to share


Waldo Waldman: They’re going to share their mistakes and possibly


Waldo Waldman: And maybe with a bit of reticence, the other mistakes that the leader may have missed. Well, sir, ma’am. You also


Waldo Waldman: Got within five or defeat within that that turn and you broke the bubble. It was it was a standards violation and also


Waldo Waldman: The A, B and C. Well, okay. Now hopefully the wingman, that the young folks on the on the team, or the other folks aren’t calling out too many of those mistakes because once again.


Waldo Waldman: It will interfere with the credibility of that leader, but you want to create that culture and that gloves are off the smoke coming out of nostrils and we go deep. But guess what, when it’s done.


Waldo Waldman: We’re professional, we move on. Salute smartly and grab grab a cup of coffee or a beer and move on with our day.


David Horsager: Creating psychological safety. I mean, people are talking about all over the place. You know, we just I gave a briefing on


David Horsager: Just actually, it’s still on my table. I wasn’t going to show us, but that the trust outlook for the year. This is our annual research, we put out one of the


David Horsager: More significant studies around trust and leadership every year. But there’s there’s a big this this really this research is pointing to this fact that you’re bringing up of of of this tension between vulnerability and accountability.


David Horsager: So it basically I mean in a simple form. We know that some people, the old transparency. Transparency transparency and transparency is trusted


David Horsager: But so is confidentiality and there’s a tension there and you’re kind of talking about to have that how much it’s it’s it’s takes wisdom. It takes effort because


David Horsager: We have to be confidential about some things we as leaders. We have to be transparent about some things, some people are so transparent. I don’t trust impress second on Facebook, for example.


David Horsager: But you know how we have, but we also have to create spaces in our leadership and our teams, you know, whether women, where we can be fully transparent almost the more transparent, you are in that close team, the more trust. Right.


Waldo Waldman: Yeah, and transparency means if you create a standards violation or are an infraction on the culture of integrity accountability service courage, whatever it is.


Waldo Waldman: You have to be so transparent that you’re not going to treat one person differently than the other. If you create


Waldo Waldman: A safety violation or break the standards of a squadron, you will be heard from you will be debriefed we need to do it with tact.


Waldo Waldman: And with empathy and compassion, but also sternly and also with the fact that if you continue to break these violations. We are so transparent in this organization. I am so transparent as a leader that guess what you can lose your wings.


Waldo Waldman: We have fighter pilots who continuously break the rules. I’ve seen great guys get become sloppy complacent.


Waldo Waldman: Committing moral violations in and out of the squad and guess what those wings are gone and you cannot tolerate that. So don’t think transparency and vulnerability is


Waldo Waldman: Is only, you know, just to show you know you know your built nurture relationships. Sometimes you as a leader have to get rid of that relationship or that


Waldo Waldman: That resource that human resource that may be dragging down the culture of an organization, as you know, as well as me, Dave, that you have somebody who’s committing those trust violations and they’re not


Waldo Waldman: Given that feedback and action not taken to them. It’s going to spread like a virus within that organization and we need to maintain those standards and stick to them consistently, not just with certain peers and coworkers as supervisors, but with everyone.


David Horsager: So I remember the first time.


David Horsager: I learned that a little bit. You know, I’m working with this organization and there’s there’s nine directors and a vice president of over them and eight of those directors are fantastic.


David Horsager: The ninth one is a slot.


David Horsager: Terrible on accountable, you know, sloppy lazy everything else.


David Horsager: But who did everybody hate who did these other hate directors hate. They didn’t hate the slot. They hated the the vice president that didn’t deal with. It did, didn’t hold accountability that didn’t


David Horsager: You know, deal with the situation right so it’s it’s interesting as a leader that that balance and absolutely true. So I’m going to jump over and let’s go to my wing man here today. You got a question for us.


David Horsager: Yeah, I was wondering, since you were talking about the importance of, you know, accountability also vulnerability, but be able to create that safe space. What if there’s a leader who maybe it’s their


David Horsager: Board or some group that they’re over and they realize it’s not like a safe space that people aren’t communicating well there you know not being transparent or vulnerable. How does a leader.


David Horsager: create that environment so that other people can feel safe to be able to share to be able to actually help the team be better. Well,


Waldo Waldman: You also want to reward and highlight the person who is sharing their and fractions, who is demonstrating integrity, which doesn’t only mean saying


Waldo Waldman: You know, being honest, it means being honest about being dishonest. We’re all going to make mistakes. We’re going to say things that aren’t


Waldo Waldman: That that may be under the gun and under pressure aren’t true. We may fudge, we may do something that we regret and being able to create an environment where folks admit their mistakes and are not necessarily rewarded but highlighted for being congruent. Let me share a quick story.


Waldo Waldman: I over G to jet. I made a struck structurally damaged a plane when I was flying, not because it was a it was intentional. I was hot dogging


Waldo Waldman: Over G the jet and the traffic pattern broke the 6.67 G love it and knew I committed a safety violation because I was trying to test limit. This was early in my career.


Waldo Waldman: It wasn’t a safety hazard where I was avoiding a bird or an aircraft and I oversee the jet. Now it’s a big deal when you overdo the jet because you have to impound it inspected. It’s has to do with safety.


Waldo Waldman: And so when my commander found out that I did it because I was messing around in the traffic pattern, he chewed me out rip me apart use foul language, man. I was horrified. I had had a perfect record up to that point. And so he made me brief the rest of the squadron.


Waldo Waldman: This was an early 90s. I had an acetate overhead projector with magic markers and all that stuff. Remember, you know, for the, the old farts and on the call. Notice


Waldo Waldman: And I was so embarrassed and my buddy came up to me at lunch and said, Waldo, man. You feel for you, dude. I’m man. How you doing, I said my reputation in a squadron is toast.


Waldo Waldman: My commander hates me. I’m never going to go anywhere here. And he said, you’re probably right, man. He just just brutalized you and he said something that I’ll never forget. He said, Waldo. You know what I would do.


Waldo Waldman: If I over G the jet. By the way, by point three g’s it was hardly anything I had to


Waldo Waldman: Maintain my integrity and turn myself in because I could have punched off the GMAT or nobody would have known it was like a stopwatch, but I knew it wasn’t the right thing to do.


Waldo Waldman: He said, If that were me and I over G to buy point three g’s and punching off the G meter zero that out. And I’m not saying anything because I don’t want to have to go through what you just went through.


Waldo Waldman: And it pissed me off because I knew deep down that instead of creating a culture of accountability and courage and support.


Waldo Waldman: Through my commanders actions. He was in instead creating cowards and people who wouldn’t share their and fraction. So what he could have done. Maybe I’ll ask you and Dave, what do you think he could have done.


Waldo Waldman: To shift the energy in the room with hundred and 80 of my peers. What could he have done to make it different.


David Horsager: I don’t know, maybe if he had shared if he had ever done that or something and kind of build that kind of credibility with them saying like, it’s not like it’s a unique thing like I’ve done this, too.


Waldo Waldman: Yeah, yeah. She has something that he messed up right Dave. Any other thoughts as well. I’m going to come


David Horsager: Well, you know, this is it’s really interesting. I if you can’t miss it. When I think about this with my own kids like if you push them too much. It’s like we’re embarrassed that then you’re almost pushing them to make up to tell a lie. Instead of tell the truth. Right.


David Horsager: The right that thing. I mean this could go all the way to. Did you do your homework. Yep, I’m done. Did you brush your teeth. Yep, I’m done. Because you know they’re going to get


David Horsager: Kind of slaughtered because they didn’t brush their teeth. If that happens, obviously created unsafe environment for you even that little, little idea so


David Horsager: Tell us.


Waldo Waldman: What do you think, oh, so what he could have done and what I seen done with other commands that has to go with that that title company that was mentioned a USA Today story number one did I deserve to be reprimanded and punished guys yes or no.


Waldo Waldman: Yes, I did. You’re absolutely right. David I committed a safety violation and I cost the Air Force $25,000 because that’s what it would cost to fix that jet and do an inspection, plus, plus some if there was indeed cracks in the airframe.


Waldo Waldman: So I needed to be punished. But what if Colonel Star Wars said, hey, Waldo or a team with 10 or Captain Waldman back then. I was gotten messed up. He committed a safety violation over gene and asset and aircraft.


Waldo Waldman: That our taxpayers have paid for. He is grounded until that plan is fixed, that if any one of you do the same thing. You’re going to be grounded to


Waldo Waldman: However, I also want you to know that Catherine Walden turned himself in when he only over G THAT JET by point three g’s


Waldo Waldman: Which probably 99.999% of the thing would wouldn’t have meant anything


Waldo Waldman: He maintained his integrity is accepting the responsibilities for his actions. That’s the type of leader I want my Squadron. That’s the type of fighter pilot. I want to fly with


Waldo Waldman: And that’s the type of action. I want to see every one of you do. And congratulations Captain woman. I appreciate your honesty now finish your briefing. Right.


Waldo Waldman: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, now you’re shifting the culture. Now, I trust Cotto stalwarts judgment and his name is Charles W stallworth the third. He was a butthead I didn’t respect them. He’s in my book and I didn’t appreciate how he made me feel for a year.


Waldo Waldman: And I will not forget and forgive many ways a leader who violates that trust and and diminishes and humiliate somebody else.


Waldo Waldman: And by the way, if it happens more than a few times, you’re out of the squad and you’re out of the F1, the wings. Go away.


Waldo Waldman: But we have to be careful as leaders cutting off the needs of our teammates our co workers, our new hires when they, when they admit their mistakes we need to


Waldo Waldman: We need to nurture them. We need to punish them in some way give feedback movement to another position. Get them remedial training and if worst case scenario will fire them but


Waldo Waldman: We need to coach them up and inspire them because, as General George Patton one said as a leader, you’re always on parade.


Waldo Waldman: And Dan watching you in and out of the office at the Starbucks at the public supermarket in your briefings and you need congruence and consistency and transparency to maintain the high standards that you have as a leader and that your company has as an organization.


David Horsager: And General Patton, if I remember my history. Well, you know what, I would say, I’m going to be the first across the river, not the last, I’m not


David Horsager: Going behind I’m going in front right


Waldo Waldman: I’ll take the bull, he got it.


David Horsager: You got it. So, so let’s jump over to to personal, you know, a lot of leaders they have


David Horsager: You know, when we talk about being trusted leaders, they seem to have some great habits or routines, personally, tell us about some of your, what makes you you’re leading a great company in many cases you’re coaching consulting and advising great leaders around the world and


David Horsager: You know that’s fun to collaborate on and and in our friendship, but how you leading you


Waldo Waldman: So the leadership starts with the person Sam backer I mentioned that before I call it the inner wing man or the inner wing man you know do you trust yourself. You feel competent courageous. Do you feel worthy of the winds that you want.


Waldo Waldman: And many of us have this cognitive dissonance. There’s a disconnect between what we want.


Waldo Waldman: And what we’re even teaching and what we’re representing in our lives and our actions outside of the cockpit away from the teammates out of your uniform


Waldo Waldman: And so I have to have confidence in myself on this call. And when I coach executives and do my program to say I am preaching, because I’m doing the hard work.


Waldo Waldman: I, for example, you know, today I always work on myself. I read something spiritual in the morning. It sets my vector. It’s the context of the day.


Waldo Waldman: You know I ease my mind. I did a meditation. Meditation but 23 minutes today. It’s an odd meditation, the creation sound.


Waldo Waldman: learning new things. I’m getting uncomfortable with this meditation stuff, but I’m learning and I’m becoming more present. So I did the meditation and then I did.


Waldo Waldman: I ran for like 25 minutes and stretched listen to a podcast fed my mind with good positive ideas and nourishment.


Waldo Waldman: And came up with some ideas. I’m like, Wow, now I’m energized right and so


Waldo Waldman: And then I had some oatmeal with some blueberries. You saw me chop it a tab. Before we there are things I wanted to give myself I’m watching my diet. I’m pretty lean. I’m pretty muscular fit but I


Waldo Waldman: I’ve got body by brownie from the holidays. Right. So I’ve gained a couple pounds. I want to lean up, guess what.


Waldo Waldman: When I’m putting in the work when I’m getting my mindset, right, when I’m doing the disciplines that emulate excellence and build trust in myself.


Waldo Waldman: It’s going to be translated and transferred through this medium called a camera talking to you 1000 miles away. And it’s also going to be translated to the people that are watching me on stage, getting coaching from me, etc. And people smell out and feel


Waldo Waldman: Dissonance they sense somebody that’s not worthy of trust. I don’t care how charismatic or good looking, or sharp. You think you are.


Waldo Waldman: People sense it and now more than ever, they feel it on a phone call on not a zoom call and on a stage. So you’ve got to be


Waldo Waldman: An older have that sense of confidence and you can’t put your fingers on it, but so I go through those habits and practices and also


Waldo Waldman: I’m pretty good at asking for help. I know, man. I could be a wing nut at times. I’ve got issues and challenges. I’m always working on myself, but I have a bunch of friends and peers.


Waldo Waldman: Who I can go to for help, who will kick my butt, you know, be my wing man and tell me what I need to hear


Waldo Waldman: And not what I want to hear. So I think that’s important, and I have a saying I want people to write this down. It’s one of my favorite quotes I made up is make your friends, your mentors and your mentors, your friends.


Waldo Waldman: You’ve got some mentors, right, you’ve got some people who are amazing in your life up them Minnesota and and and you know when you when you make them your friends and


Waldo Waldman: Make your friends, your mentors. Now you’re talking about building that team of wingman those men and women who are competent and capable and empathetic and compassionate enough and willing to tick you off to get David to grow.


David Horsager: And so I’ll tell you this, this, this can’t be, can’t be overstated, you know, mentors.


David Horsager: Mentorship has changed me for sure, but I’ll go back to the mentors that became friends so 28 years ago about in college. I started meeting with a group of guys Thursday nights 10 O’clock till midnight, we would meet, how are you


David Horsager: You know with real call outs to how are you being great, how are you treating that woman on a date. How are you leading this way how we were kind of known, you know, leaders on campus. Some would say, but that group still meets


David Horsager: Every year. Now we don’t meet every week we meet every year for four or five days, little cabin up in the woods.


David Horsager: And we each share about three hours each through a series of questions, how you live in as a dad how you live in as a leader, we, we all lead teams or companies. How are you, and that what I’ve seen is great leaders are willing to not just take feedback but seek it.


David Horsager: And that’s I think what your, your group when you talk about your wingman and wing moms.


David Horsager: You know, willing to seek. It’s different than just take feedback because you can deal with the moment they gave me some feedback. I gotta deal with that. I manage it. Now they’re seeking feedback.


David Horsager: Right. So yeah, be better. So


David Horsager: I think I and I think that the other thing that I want to call out here what you said we say it all the time here.


David Horsager: Every science says it and I’ve said it before input leads up equals output right business input equals output first law of thermodynamics, the energy put into the energy, get out, psychology, what you think about


David Horsager: You start to desire, what you start to act on. I mean, every science says the same thing. I can eat something bad, and it comes in bed becomes bad out what whether it’s a bride body or not. Right, so


David Horsager: But I’ve always appreciated that with you, your discipline, both as a husband and a father with your body. I mean, I, I can’t you know this is hard to say about people that actually we do trust those


David Horsager: That that kind of you know that are disciplined in other areas. I mean, because you’re disciplined with your body and with your parenting people trust you on the stage, even though it’s you’re talking about something totally differently.


Waldo Waldman: Right, right.


David Horsager: So never fly solo what inspired what inspired that book.


Waldo Waldman: So,


Waldo Waldman: It’s about those partnerships. Right. It’s about


Waldo Waldman: Nurturing those relationships in your life that can get you to the next level that humble you, that make life more joyful and less fearful, you know, when I flew in combat and, you know, flying eight our mission of Iraq at night.


Waldo Waldman: And being shot at is one thing, but then I suffered with claustrophobia. I had a panic attack scuba diving through years of my 11 year flying career develop through PTSD.


Waldo Waldman: This this this anxiety that I had for eight of my 11 year flying career and I had people helped me I double down on what I was fighting for who needed me


Waldo Waldman: One of my tools and I could talk about this for a long time, but I’ll just share when I have those panic attacks in the jet. The biggest tool to allow me to overcome my fear.


Waldo Waldman: And stay present was looking out my wing or to the students sitting next to me because I was a teaching as well as an instructor pilot


Waldo Waldman: And focusing on him or her saying this person needs me to teach them. They need me to take them into Iraq on a seven hour night combat mission.


Waldo Waldman: I could be freaking out having this claustrophobic mental panic attack but I distracted myself from myself and focused on that teammate.


Waldo Waldman: Who needed me and also who I knew had my back, who I knew was checking my blind spot my six. You know, when a jet. You can’t see your most vulnerable position behind you. If you’re leaking fuel on fire, etc.


Waldo Waldman: But when that wingman a wing man is there and you feel confident that you can depend on them and they can depend on you.


Waldo Waldman: You have a higher calling and that’s why part of excellence is service and love is service and action when you truly love something and serve them and distract yourself from your fears and realize there are men and women who needs you. And this is key right now in the in the


David Horsager: In the, in the


Waldo Waldman: coven environment and our environment of instability and uncertainty and turbulence.


Waldo Waldman: You have to distract yourself from yourself. And what a better way no better way to do that than to think about those people who need you and any parent and he loved someone who truly love somebody else. I’m talking about true, authentic love


Waldo Waldman: Will realize that you’ll jump off 100 foot diving board to save your kids and jump in front of a train and take one for for your loved one, but it’s no longer about you.


Waldo Waldman: Focus. This was


Waldo Waldman: Was key. And that’s what never fly solo is about and realize that in my life. I would not be here if it wasn’t for those teammates. It wasn’t for my friends who encouraged me coach me kicked me at times and pushed me


Waldo Waldman: And so that’s that’s what my context of life is about and all my speeches my coaching. It’s about trusting yourself, which is the first part of the book then trust in your team. You’ve got to build those partners.


Waldo Waldman: Because you can’t see the big picture on your own. There’s others who have a different insight experience in context of success. You got to put it in your flight plan to grow.


David Horsager: Maybe we get to something specific. I love this, you know, we just came through a crisis, people could say there’s racial tension, there’s


David Horsager: Global tension. There’s political tension and of course has been pandemic tension. But how do you


David Horsager: You take it, you know, these, these flights over racked and we’re talking about trust. We think trust affects every part of a leader, more than anything else. How do you build in the midst of combat in the midst of tension and challenge. How do you build trust as a leader, then


Waldo Waldman: So you you build it by experiencing that fear and anxiety and pressure.


Waldo Waldman: As much as you can.


Waldo Waldman: So that by that when it happens the next time you more present. He is what I mean. Yeah, when I was in combat, for the first time I was scared to death crapping my pants, so to speak, walking on the tarmac heart pounding freaking out.


Waldo Waldman: A bunch of times, I’ll never forget crossing the phone edge of the battle area in combat, for the first time you go master arm hot you hit the pickle button. Something’s coming off that aircraft. But guess what people are trying to kill you.


Waldo Waldman: Think about that. You’re in an area where people are trying to kill you. The fear is overwhelming, but guess what, you get used to it.


Waldo Waldman: And the next mission gets a little easier and you engage the enemy and you realize, hey, I can operate in this environment. I can operate and lead my team and feel confident in getting the job done. I’m building my skill set. I’m building more courage. I’m building more confidence in myself.


Waldo Waldman: Which will then allow me


Waldo Waldman: To take bigger risks and stay in the fight more and coach, others more. So that is the foundation of resilience


Waldo Waldman: Resilience just doesn’t mean I’m going to meditate. I’m going to call a friend. I’m going to have a green smoothie and do yoga and and maybe take a walk in the park. Those are important parts of distracting yourself from the current fear.


Waldo Waldman: But true resilience for a warrior for a leader who’s in the battle every day, risking it all risking getting shot at facing their panic attacks.


Waldo Waldman: Is being used to and getting used to operating in that danger zone and you’re just going there and that’s why the same pain leads to peace.


Waldo Waldman: Pain leads to peace that pain of staying in the jet being shot at overcoming the pain of being on that treadmill, like I was today.


Waldo Waldman: You know, doing the high intensity training going up to like nine nine, you know, nine on the thing and sweating and doing that 45 or 60 seconds. So I wanted to pass out and then slowing it down. I’m like, Okay, I’m used to that.


Waldo Waldman: Guess what that pain now builds the endorphins and I have peace because guess what listener.


Waldo Waldman: I did it. I stayed in that on that treadmill I bled and sweat and I went through the pain and I’m building that resilience and competence that only is a byproduct of risking it and stepping in the ring and and and facing your fears. That’s the gift, by the way.


Waldo Waldman: Of the pandemic. That’s the gift. When God forbid you get coven and you go through the rigmarole and God willing, you live.


David Horsager: That’s the gift.


Waldo Waldman: Of maybe having your spouse come up to you and say I want a divorce and working through that. That’s the gift of embarrassing yourself in front of a sale because you weren’t prepared and you lost a deal. And you have to go home with your tail between your legs.


Waldo Waldman: That pain will lead to peace, as long as you learn from it and a willing to continuously step into the jet and face those fears and that’s why the best leaders are the ones who have the experience and the scars and the battle damage to prove it.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Well, there’s a whole lot more here. There’s a whole lot more and never fly solo and all the all the


David Horsager: Resources and we’re going to put them in the show notes. And I’m going to ask for a sec. Well, we should jump right here. Where would you say, where can people go to find out more about never fly solo all the great work you do and Waldo Waldman


Waldo Waldman: And then also just want to thank you David. We’ve been friends for many years we had I take a nice, fun lunch in Savannah. A couple years ago, I think it was just last few


David Horsager: More questions just serve videos. I’m gonna get we’re gonna get to the quick fire because I want to find one more. I want to follow up one more thing is one thing. Don’t let me forget


Waldo Waldman: That truly is the impetus for leaders. So if you go to your wingman.com your wingman calm and actually I’m going to give everybody a free download to my New York Times bestseller. My audiobook


Waldo Waldman: And we could track it based on your listeners if they go to your way man calm, forward slash and Fs like never fly solo your women.com forward slash best, you get a download of the audiobook


Waldo Waldman: And share it with your kids and people who who need that courage and if you go to wall a wall been on LinkedIn. That’s where I’m really, really do a lot of work Waller woman on LinkedIn or Google wall a wall, and you can find me there.


Waldo Waldman: I’m all over social media. And so that’s the best way to find me and I’m actually going to put it up here on the screen. If people want to connect with me if they’re watching this


Waldo Waldman: There’s a link to never fly so on. There’s a QR code. If you put your camera up to that press pause on this video and you can connect with me on LinkedIn right there.


David Horsager: So let’s get the lightning round. This is fantastic. What a couple quick things here. What’s your favorite book or resource right now.


Waldo Waldman: So I’m reading. How to Win Friends and Influence People again. It’s just such a fundamental critical book on communication skills on relationship skills on business. It’s just amazing. I actually had my son, read a


Waldo Waldman: CHAPTER THE OTHER DAY. I’m forcing him to read more. It’s just so great and then not Ernest Holmes. He’s a spiritual leader, he’s got he’s got 365 philosophies to every day. So I read that every day. And that’s, that’s my go to because it gets me thinking in the right direction.


David Horsager: Perfect. Good. I mean, how to win friends and influence people that that books changed a few lives, hasn’t it, I remember, I think it was 11 years old or something. When I read it for the first time for


Waldo Waldman: You good for you.


David Horsager: What’s your give us one tip parenting tip you got a great 10 year old great marriage one parenting or marriage tip leaders are great that are great at work are great at home.


Waldo Waldman: Make sure there’s consistency between your husband or spouse spouse or partner with how you you handle and discipline your son or daughter I you don’t correct your husband or partner or spouse.


Waldo Waldman: While they’re doing something


Waldo Waldman: If your son or daughter does something and you see your spouse or partner, make a make a decision.


Waldo Waldman: Hopefully that’s supporting how you feel about it but don’t correct them in front of each other. Make sure there’s consistency. Otherwise, your son or daughter will doubt you and they won’t know who to trust.


David Horsager: Absolutely. Don’t see ski. Yep, it is.


Waldo Waldman: It’s a culture of home critical right


David Horsager: What, what’s one thing left for you on the bucket list.


Waldo Waldman: Man.


Waldo Waldman: So I think I need to go. I need to go a parachuting I most people know I’m massively also afraid of heights. I was claustrophobic and afraid of heights.


Waldo Waldman: I need to jump out of a plane before I die and face my fear I did go scuba diving, again, a few years after that other Internet was in the Caribbean.


Waldo Waldman: Great training. I was in a cage initially and a coach me great important to have people you trust to face your fears. If you’re having an anxiety. Those instructors were phenomenal.


Waldo Waldman: But I gotta jump out of a plane that’s that’s on my fear bucket.


Waldo Waldman: List, so I don’t, please don’t hold me accountable. Yeah, sure, Waldo. So I’m going to make that happen with my twin brother, Dave. We’re going to both do it at the same time. And I’m going to, you know, face my fear and do it.


David Horsager: I’ll tell you what this many don’t know this about me but I had an incident. I used to be a lifeguard. You know, growing up and


David Horsager: My life guardian all that and I was caught under a big no more than a tarp is inch thick of bubble rubber under a big


David Horsager: Expansive water. Anyway, I should have died and that but that moment 20 years old that made me claustrophobic. And I learned it the first time when we went spelunking and caving and all that. What happened but but it was


David Horsager: That I don’t know how you get in those you know i mean i you gave a tip today on focusing on others, but it would be massively different


David Horsager: I bet challenge. I say, you know, flying 100 year or whatever it is a couple hundred times I guess round trip.


David Horsager: People don’t pay me to fly they pay me to get on the plane and and you know when everybody if if I’m inside and every stands up, I started, I have had to learn them to manage that as well. But my dad was a paratrooper. And so this kind of connection for you. And so I did go up and


David Horsager: You know parachute.


David Horsager: And that was a great experience. And I think you should do it.


David Horsager: But there are kind of opposites. But that, you know, one is being totally free and and high up in the air and the other one is being totally can.


David Horsager: Put in a tight space, but not a valid fears for sure.


Waldo Waldman: Afraid of heights. Let me share something real quick here.


Waldo Waldman: And it goes back to, you know, one of the tools of facing my


Waldo Waldman: Fear was, you know, reaching out to my team and realizing that and focusing on them, but it also is align and this is critical for the listeners.


Waldo Waldman: And it’s critical for a leader who have other people depending on them. It’s good. A hole for a wing mom a wing dad who has a spouse or partner or children depending on them. It’s called responsibility.


Waldo Waldman: I had wings on my chest.


Waldo Waldman: David listeners. I had rank on my shoulders. I was a fighter pilot. And when I was asked to go to battle it meant it was incumbent upon me to


Waldo Waldman: face my fears because others would depending on me when you were a parent. If you have little ones at home.


Waldo Waldman: You don’t say, Oh, I’m losing my passion. Today I I’m just a little afraid I’m losing my passion. Listen, two year old daughter or son.


Waldo Waldman: Hannah. Listen, I’m losing the passion.


Waldo Waldman: Why don’t you change your diaper and feed yourself some Gerber


David Horsager: And


Waldo Waldman: I’m going to go have a have a Chardonnay and call it a day. Because guess what my passion just isn’t there too bad.


Waldo Waldman: I told myself, Waldo Waldman


Waldo Waldman: You’re a fighter pilot you rose your right hand. YOU’RE MR fighter pilot. Top Gun


Waldo Waldman: You got these wings on your


David Horsager: Chest.


Waldo Waldman: You better do the damn job. My


Waldo Waldman: Ego was in the way and it helped me in a good way.


Waldo Waldman: But my sense of responsibility, which is an alignment with my honor


Waldo Waldman: As a leader and that others were dependent on me, got my butt.


Waldo Waldman: In that chat.


Waldo Waldman: And made me take off because if I didn’t fly if I quit. If I wasn’t present


Waldo Waldman: On the mission.


Waldo Waldman: Who would suffer not just me my team.


Waldo Waldman: We have a responsibility for our team. We have a responsibility to take care of our kids.


Waldo Waldman: We have a responsibility to live up to the standards that we preach about and too many people today in society are focusing too much on that passion and on their joy and fun and forgetting.


Waldo Waldman: That sometimes being a leader is going to suck.


Waldo Waldman: And we need to double down on those responsibilities and grind it out.


Waldo Waldman: And hopefully celebrate our wins, but


Waldo Waldman: Because life is tough. And sometimes it’s combat and


Waldo Waldman: I’m just passionate about that now.


Waldo Waldman: Especially with what’s going on in the world today.


David Horsager: Dave. It is work to be a leader, the weight of leadership is heavy, but it is a, it’s a massive responsibility and I appreciate what you said we I couldn’t agree more need leaders are leaders are responsible


David Horsager: So you know where to get everything listeners trusted leader show.com last question for you. Lieutenant Colonel, here it is.


David Horsager: It’s the dress. Oh, who is the you trust and why


Waldo Waldman: Say again who


Waldo Waldman: You you cut out


David Horsager: It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust why


David Horsager: So,


Waldo Waldman: I love my twin brother, Dave.


Waldo Waldman: And he’s my best friend.


Waldo Waldman: He’s brutally honest with me and I’m brutally honest with him.


Waldo Waldman: And I know at the end of the


Waldo Waldman: Day, he


Is


Waldo Waldman: Going to have my back and


Waldo Waldman: Tell me, once again, what I need to hear not what I want to


Hear


Waldo Waldman: We’ve had a long relationship. We’ve always been very competitive with each other, but we love each other. He’s the only person I


Waldo Waldman: I jumped in front of a train for other than my family.


Waldo Waldman: But the only person I probably push in front of on because he drives me crazy. Right. And for those of us who have kids in our brothers and sisters that way. But Dave is my ultimate wing that I know no matter what 24 seven. If I call out for help. He will be there for me.


Waldo Waldman: And he will give me the advice that I need.


Waldo Waldman: To hear not what I want to hear. And I’m blessed to have that in my life. It’s a


David Horsager: Context.


Waldo Waldman: Of my life. I learned it.


Waldo Waldman: We were not just wingman. We were roommates.


Waldo Waldman: Wound mates right and


Waldo Waldman: And so I’m blessed to have that in my life and he is my best friend and once again.


Waldo Waldman: He’s gonna piss me off sometimes but


Waldo Waldman: That’s who I want


Waldo Waldman: In my formation in combat somebody who’s really going to have my back and help me to get better.


David Horsager: Well, Lieutenant Colonel Lynn thank being on the show. Thanks for sharing with us. Thanks for what you do in the world I i’m not i don’t say this trial, you know, we’re friends. And I am so proud of you. And so grateful.


David Horsager: And all you do on stage and off, and there are so many more to get dig board today, but I’ll, I’ll just wrap with some of these you dissonance another’s you got to reward or the good, you got to be willing to be


David Horsager: asked for help. Remember input does equal output pain can lead to peace. That’s a good one. Make your friends, your mentors and your, your friends.


David Horsager: Question, do you trust yourself. You need to do the little things every day. Trust yourself. And with that, I want to say a huge, huge, huge thank you thank you to all the listeners for listening to the trust of leaders show. We’ll see you next time stay trusted.

Ep. 31: Brian Lord on Why Leaders Must ALWAYS Have Hope

In this episode, David sits down with Brian Lord, President of Premiere Speakers Bureau and Host of the Beyond Speaking podcast, to discuss why leaders set the tone for their employees, and why leaders must ALWAYS have hope.

Buy David’s NEW book: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

Sponsored by Sourcewell

Brian’s Bio:
Brian Lord is the president of Premiere Speakers Bureau and host of the Beyond Speaking podcast. Brian is a 26 year veteran of the speaking and entertainment industry, with the past two decades at Premiere following stints at the William Morris agency, and his own agency. He’s booked everyone from world leaders to CEOs to Hall of Fame athletes (and even David Horsager!) for most of the Fortune 500. He’s been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Huffington Post, and on BBC Radio and was chosen in 2015 as one of the Nashville Business Journal’s 40 Under 40. He enjoys writing, racing triathlons, and coaching youth softball. He and his wife Krista enjoy raising their four kids outside of Nashville, TN.

Brian’s Links:
Website: https://premierespeakers.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/PremiereBrian
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlord/

Key Quotes:
1. “I always love learning.”
2. “Whenever you meet somebody, you realize that they know more than you about something.”
3. “The best way to be smart is to realize you don’t know everything.”
4. “There’s still so much to be grateful for.”
5. “Regardless of what happens, you’ve always got to have hope.”
6. “It’s really good to have great people around you.”
7. “Part of your role as a leader is to still have that hope.”
8. “You can choose to focus on what you don’t have and what you can’t do, or you can choose to focus on what you do have and what you can do.”
9. “Leaders really set the tone.”
10. “Work hard like I don’t have any money, but be honest like I have all of it and I don’t need any.”
11. “I always like things that kind of mix business and helping people in need.”
12. “Never forget that what you do is teaching people how to improve their lives.”
13. “You’re either a reflection or a reaction to your parents.” – Bob Goff
14. “I’m not here without everybody else.”
15. “Don’t put up bricks.”
16. “Other people aren’t like you.”
17. “Let people think before they talk.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Epic of Gilgamesh” by Anonymous: https://amzn.to/3bPFJZP
“A Tale of Two Cities” by Charles Dickens: https://amzn.to/3bSJHAZ
“The Lord of the Rings” by J.R.R. Tolkien: https://amzn.to/3fh4zDT
“The 5000 Year Leap” by W. Cleon Skousen: https://amzn.to/3vhnGn7

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager our guest this week. He’s been a friend for a long time. We work together. He is CEO of premier speakers and we, you know,


David Horsager: He’s a whole lot more than that. You’re going to get to get to know them a little bit. He’s a father of four. I’m the father, for we both done


David Horsager: We were talking about this. We both done working Kenya and we have a heart for some things happening Dominican Republic. My, my.


David Horsager: wife and daughter were there, you are doing some neat things there.


David Horsager: You’re a track athlete. I try to be a triathlete


David Horsager: In fact,


David Horsager: He, he was a national champion ship qualifier. He is, you know, in the business journal and 2014 2015 he was the this kind of noted what was that the 40 under 40 so great guy. But what I like about my friend Brian Lord is he’s what we say in the business, the same onstage and offstage so


Brian Lord: Brian welcome.


Brian Lord: Hey, well thanks, David. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate. I’m excited to be on


David Horsager: Well, there’s a few things about you. And there’s a whole lot more. We could get to, but


David Horsager: Give us a couple things, two or three things, who is Brian Laura and we’ll get into it.


Brian Lord: Uh, you know that’s that’s a tough question to answer it. Just because you you kind of are who you are. Your whole life. I mean, I’ve always been interested in learning and getting to know people.


Brian Lord: And being around people that aren’t like myself. And so, you know, why go these different student things and I always try to hang out with people that were the least like me in certain ways, and I’m from Indiana, so I’m like, trying to avoid the farm kids and


David Horsager: Today, because you’re stuck with one


Brian Lord: So, so, you know, we’ve got this family farm. That’s like 160 years old up in Indiana is just growing corn, since you know before the Civil War, but


Brian Lord: But I think I’ve always just like learning and and being in the industry. I’m in the speaker’s bureau industry.


Brian Lord: And before that, the entertainment industry, you know, able to meet all kinds of different incredible people. And for me, you know, sometimes


Brian Lord: making phone calls and emails. Isn’t that exciting. But getting to know all the people stories, not just the amazing speakers, but also you know clients and


Brian Lord: You know, I was talking to somebody today and her father’s like this famous archaeologists in the in the Mediterranean, and I’m like, oh, that’s really cool you know and and just the interesting people you you run into all over the place. So I always love learning


Brian Lord: And so whatever I’m doing, whether it’s this where there’s that. And I think that’s to you. Whenever you meet somebody you realize that they know more than you about something.


Brian Lord: And I love to learn. And so you just be humble and and realize the best way to be smart just realize you don’t know everything.


David Horsager: Everyone has a story right every everybody has a story and we all have


David Horsager: We certainly all have something to learn


David Horsager: Who is someone you’ve learned the most from


Brian Lord: You know, I think my mom I when I was growing up, you know, my parents got divorced my dad. It did end up coming back into the picture about 10 years later, but my mom is somebody that never ever ever gave up.


Brian Lord: So you’ve got, you know, single mom for kids, three of them with health problems. The others baby and just that really, really difficult time and never giving up never complaining


Brian Lord: You know, my wife jokes around that. I don’t like to play in which I don’t know it’s true I i’m sure I complain, sometimes, but it’s it’s definitely not a normal thing to complain. So like this year.


Brian Lord: I have, you know, it’s been, you know, or this past year 2020 has just been a crazy year but it’s, there’s still so much to be grateful for and be thankful for realizing difficult things go on and I think I got that from my mom just


Brian Lord: You know, working midnight sleeping three hours or three or four hours a day for


Brian Lord: You know 15 years and still having a smile and still, you know, showing showing that kind of thing. So even with all the amazing people I’ve met over the years, I’d still have to say my mom has got to be up there.


David Horsager: And you’ve met some amazing ones and back when you’re with William Morris, of course, to and now with what you’re doing today, but you know I had a challenge, one time you this just made me think of it.


David Horsager: A mentor of mine challenge to me one time, this was maybe 20 years ago but it changed me forever. He said, David, I want you to do something for


David Horsager: 90 days, not one complaint.


David Horsager: Never no complaints no complaint, you can say complain about anything for 90 days.


David Horsager: I think I wrote about that might have been in my first book or something. But it was it was, you know, that was powerful. It’s like not not saying one complaint.


David Horsager: Interesting Lee I was this kind of ties. I’m jumping around here, but yesterday I think it was listen to a podcast about how


David Horsager: are few things more powerful than believing in someone but especially believing them when they can’t don’t believe in themselves and seems like your mom carried certainly some of that with so you know on this theme of learning that


David Horsager: We brought up and we just go with it here, but it all.


David Horsager: It all becomes about being a trusted leader, but this certainly is. What do you learn in these days, you know, we just came through this pandemic over the last year and all these things are changing what what what what are your key learnings, what are you learning right now.


Brian Lord: I mean, I think for me, a lot of it is is storytelling. You know, I think you always have to do something else besides your actual work. And so I’ve been writing a lot and learning a whole lot about


Brian Lord: Storytelling and what what that makes up, but it also what makes things true to people.


Brian Lord: So, you know, telling a story. You can tell true stories too. So I’m not talking purely about fiction but learning about what makes things resonate where they’ve come from in history.


Brian Lord: You know, like you look at if you’ve ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh, which is like the first adventure story ever that most people


Brian Lord: Have been able to find, you know, it’s not that far from James Bond. So it’s or even Star Wars. So those different things with a hero meets a mentor gets the these different things to complete their quest.


Brian Lord: And and overcome impossible odds. You know those things resonate over and over again. And so how do those things, inspire you. How do they inspire others.


Brian Lord: You know, I’ve, I love inspiration from business standpoint, but also with kids. And for me, a lot of that was reading and so


Brian Lord: You know, just encouraging kids to read and to grow as well. I think are so important. So, I mean, that’s kind of what I’ve been really learning right now, but then also just


Brian Lord: Just those little things of just showing up every day and even if everything’s kind of falling around around you.


Brian Lord: Know that there’s been a story people have come through worse than this, and regardless of what happens you have always got to have hope. And, you know, make the best of that one individual day


David Horsager: Love it. My wife, you know, as I, you know, spoke, I don’t know, around 100 times a year for a couple decades now when we started, now we have four kids like you have four kids. So thinking about our kids too and trying to instill learnings, a big deal. But I remember


David Horsager: Back when we started, it was just her and I, we, you know, now she doesn’t travel with me all the time, but back then I would be backstage. You know, I’m younger than the whole audience in my 20s scared to death to go out there, you know, and she would have this thing she said every time.


David Horsager: Thousand people out there, whatever it was behind the curtain. David just love them. They can tell when you love them.


David Horsager: And that whole thing of when you care about them. I remember now.


David Horsager: Times I’ve gone in the boardroom of she’s known unknown I’ve gone to the compound it bang vanguard. I got to meet with the board of directors that all these things, grabbing the guy that sets the


David Horsager: The, the dollar amount on mutual fund that if he’s off by a penny. It can be millions of dollars. And he’s like, I’m going in there and she texts me right as I’m going to compound and, you know, Massachusetts, or I’m sitting next to President of a country in


David Horsager: East Africa. And, you know, there’s the president. There’s machine guns all around. And as I’m going and she’ll text me or whatever.


David Horsager: They never forget the research just love them. They can tell when you love them.


David Horsager: And yep


David Horsager: Certainly true with


David Horsager: Showing up every day and knowing. Everybody has a story and seeing their story and loving them, even if they’re different and we could certainly use a little more of that today, it seems like


David Horsager: So you’re what a you know you’re leading an organization that had to pivot a lap up somewhat over the last year or so. But what are some things as a leader, you’re learning


Brian Lord: I think it’s, it’s that it’s really good to have great people around you.


Brian Lord: It’s not just not just when things are good, but also when they’re tough.


Brian Lord: And part of your role as a leader is to still have that hope I remember we were having, you know, these meetings and


Brian Lord: Of course, our you know a whole lot of our income is based on people traveling and getting together, big groups which has not been the recipe for success in 2020 for the most part.


Brian Lord: And we just said to say, you know, how can we


Brian Lord: help our clients, how can we do that.


Brian Lord: And and just getting it refocused on what we can do. So there’s so often so many things are focused on what you can’t do what you don’t have. What can we do, okay, we don’t have this big chunk of what we’ve always done


Brian Lord: How can we make this most of this little chunk that we’ve done. What advantages do we have and are, you know, the folks, we haven’t it stepped up and advanced stepped up accounting stepped up.


Brian Lord: You know i i don’t know if i had the least amount to do with it. But I certainly didn’t have the most and it’s just because so many people that are talented at what they do.


Brian Lord: Really refocused and, you know, whether it’s, you know, Sean Hanks here who’s who. Who’s done so much or sharing in accounting are all are all these other people. We couldn’t even name.


Brian Lord: That have, you know, stepped up and there’s this late night that you didn’t see or they made the decision to keep pushing you when they were a little tired or we all took a break. You know those different things that


Brian Lord: Helps be successful. And it really difficult time and you can choose to


Brian Lord: Focus on what you don’t have. And what you can’t do or you can choose to focus on what you do have what you can do.


Brian Lord: And that’s just really simple choice and really simple decision. And I think people just like you were talking about. There’s all this research. Everything else but really it’s just kind of who you are and how you’re made up and choosing to do what you’re able to do


David Horsager: So get into those little things, I think, you know, you talk about you gotta hire the right people and but but let’s think about this. What habits. Do you see those great people, you’re thinking about, you know,


David Horsager: They had to persevere. They had a pivot whatever last year, but they probably had things that they just do like what makes up the great people. I mean,


David Horsager: Once the only might say it’s it’s hungry and smart and you know that you might say, well, what are the what are the habits or what do you notice when you said that person has what we need here at premier they’re doing the little things we need to do every day. What are those things.


What’s that look


Brian Lord: I think it’s, I think it wanted showing up. It was kind of funny, I was talking about cousin who works in


Brian Lord: I won’t say what company but but we’re trying to get together and she goes, yeah, I can leave for up to two hours without everybody quitting working


Brian Lord: So like, that’s her thing. Like, I can’t imagine like I don’t if I’m not here. I don’t worry about people not doing their job.


Brian Lord: And I think that people have that responsibility. I know there’s always jokes about it a lot of times our IT department is are the first people here.


Brian Lord: And, you know, and that’s the, you know, you hear people say oh yeah it guys rolled in at 10am I’m like really they do that, and it’s just kind of the reality of different places, compared to here, but I think there’s just that standard


Brian Lord: And that I think also too, and you’ve pointed this out before that leaders really set the tone. If the leaders are really entitled or lazy or, you know, those sorts of things.


Brian Lord: It’s not going to happen.


Brian Lord: And I think for a lot of people here you you do your job and it’s not about the title I know my mom kind of got on me because I


Brian Lord: got promoted to President and I forgot for almost two years to update it on LinkedIn and then she’s like, how could you not tell me right when they


Brian Lord: Go because my mom is one of those like she’s a nurse, so she put like a button of every sports team or on if there was like a premier President button. She would have put it on and wanted around to


Brian Lord: To to do bedside visits with people and everything else. And it just didn’t, you know, and other people here like I have to find like I know what they do. I don’t actually know what their title is and so


Brian Lord: And I was like, one guy here, like you, you’re talking about you talk to the person off camera. So I talked to Eric woody off camera here and I’m still, I think he’s


Brian Lord: Marketing Manager director marketing something he just does all everything he does, he does extremely well.


Brian Lord: And it doesn’t really matter what his title is. But I think learning is a big thing like everybody’s trying to push and get more stuff and


Brian Lord: Doing masterclass and you know just even if it’s a little stuff outside of things, you know, you’re


Brian Lord: Like a lot of us are into storytelling and so you take those classes on storytelling, even though I’m you know an agent basically like I’m sales guy.


Brian Lord: For talent and he’s running camera or working sound, but he’s really interested in storytelling. What goes into that too. And so it just having a lot of people that are interested in smart and growing and hardworking and they show up.


David Horsager: You know, I want to get to. I want to get too personal. In a moment, because I think


David Horsager: There’s some habits there from you. Certainly as a triathlete and everything else but


David Horsager: What about sales, you started as a sales guy, you’re a sales driven organization. You gotta get you gotta sell and it’s not something that’s just this automatic. I mean, you gotta sell the next event. You gotta sell the next person gonna sell and


David Horsager: What, what makes great. What made you great at sales. What makes some of your top sales team. Great.


Brian Lord: Yeah, I mean for me. I think one of the the joke joke things is not quite a joke but


Brian Lord: My I got asked us 10 or 15 years ago and I said it’s because my mom is a nurse and my dad’s a truck driver.


Brian Lord: And and so where that came from. Is that my dad used to get hired before you had, you know, the internet was that big and everything else. He’d get hired by these different


Brian Lord: Trucking book companies because he could remember what was off what exit which gas stations which restaurants. You could just and he would just tell you, you just go down in interstate and tell you what was off each exit.


Brian Lord: He just kind of had this crazy memory. They knew the mile marker everything, you know, all those sorts of things. So we just kind of had this memory for facts and I don’t have his but I’m still pretty good for human


Brian Lord: And then my mom is somebody who just finally retired after 40 some years as a bedside nurse shoes, but she had this amazing ability to


Brian Lord: Project trust one of your things and calm at people’s most frantic times and with event planners. It’s whatever one of the top 10 most stressful jobs in america and


Brian Lord: For whatever reason, I think that combination of being able to be trustworthy project calm and know, to some extent, what I’m talking about.


Brian Lord: Has Really Helped me whether it was, you know, being an agent assistant at William Morris booking bands or


Brian Lord: You know booking speakers here is that generally I do kind of know what I’m talking about. And also just wanting to put the client first, like if somebody’s not a good fit. I’ll tell them


Brian Lord: For me, I really, really want to be able to go to sleep at night. And so one of the things I’ve always done. Ever since I started, even when I was like, struggling to make rent and everything else.


Brian Lord: Was to work hard, like, I don’t have any money, but be honest, like I have all of it and I don’t meet any


Brian Lord: And that way you can make those decisions like if this didn’t make me any money at all. What would I do if I was desperately, you know, and so you know that’s that’s one of those things I think is just so important that


Brian Lord: Those clients will come back to me like, you know what I found out what you told me it was actually true. And a lot of people that they talk to. It’s not true. There are a lot of great


Brian Lord: agents that different bureaus and everything else. So it’s not saying anything bad about them. They do run across people that


Brian Lord: Don’t treat them that way so they know even if I know they go to somebody else, they may come back to me in the future, just because they they kind of know what they’re getting.


David Horsager: Hungry and honest. I love that that


David Horsager: That can be a talk.


You can


David Horsager: You can go to be hungry and honest right there you


David Horsager: Hungry and honest as a new way of doing sales.


Brian Lord: And I think


David Horsager: I think there’s something for us in this in this world that a project com you know it doesn’t mean be blind.


David Horsager: But when you talk about projecting calm. Like, I think.


David Horsager: They want to be able to trust this this leader, that is that is able to be calm enough to make good decisions. It doesn’t mean they don’t


David Horsager: You know, can confront the facts or whatever. So tell me about a time you know you’ve been around a lot of people tell me about some of the greats. I know you know you’d Robin Williams. I remember you told me a story. One time, about a


David Horsager: An agreement with him. But what what’s something that with some of these maybe there’s a story about working with somebody great that surprised you for the good or that you know like


David Horsager: What you learn what made a difference.


You know,


Brian Lord: Well, I mean, that with a Robin Williams one and I kind of got it. It’s funny, though, is those things that happen with that. So the quick version. The Robin Williams story is that I was close to booking in front of at one time and


Brian Lord: And his office and over the writer and it said that that whenever he does an event, you need to be employing people who are homeless for the duration of that. That’s the in a nutshell. And so


Brian Lord: And I just thought that was amazing. So you know you and I both done stuff with a lot of nonprofits and everything else and and I used to run sort of a nonprofit that help nonprofits do the business part well and


Brian Lord: And so I always like things that kind of mix business and helping people in need. And so we


Brian Lord: So I just thought that was great. I wrote an article and it kind of blew up and then people like do you have the writer and like, well that was like I don’t have the facts as I had from. I mean, what factors do you have from 12 years ago you know so


Brian Lord: Or however long ago. It was so it’s it’s one of those things is very true very popular, but also I don’t have it. So it’s funny to have your own Snopes entry, but


Brian Lord: Well, it was like, you can’t prove or disprove this. I’m like, well, I wish I had it. I didn’t think about keeping all my faxes from early 2000 but but just having those things, you know,


Brian Lord: I love it when speakers, kinda like you have the things you do with Kenya, like I have a heart for a lot of international things and so like Susan Urschel, I love it. She’s a Nevers climber and she has


Brian Lord: Worked with a foundation that helps girls in the nearby communities there in in every area to be able to go to school, so I love that or


Brian Lord: You know, different speakers that have a certain passion. Maybe they’re musician on the side and they help kids.


Brian Lord: Get their instruments. I mean just realizing what you do is, is bigger. So, I mean, we get paid from the corporate side of things, but what what we do in this industry is give people hope it’s given them a plan. It’s


Brian Lord: It’s making people better and I think you should never forget that I was talking to somebody earlier this year.


Brian Lord: doing an interview and that’s that’s the big thing is just never forget that. What you do is teaching people how to improve their lives whether it’s just


Brian Lord: Getting better at sales or leadership or whatever you want them to be better.


Brian Lord: After having heard you than they were before. And for us, you know, we’re kind of back behind the scenes helping set that up. But if you’re an agent, you realize that that you’re important


Brian Lord: That you’re, you’re not the face of it, but you’re there you’re there helping that person.


Brian Lord: Help others. And that was kind of the idea behind the nonprofit is that we’re behind the scenes helping nonprofit leaders who go and help other people


Brian Lord: And that’s still important, and it’s it’s humbling. It’s not as famous as not as glitzy but it’s really important.


Brian Lord: I think that’s what all of us in this industry have to realize is that we need to get our message out. So whether it’s virtual whether it’s in person, whether it’s in writing, whether it’s over, audio, whether it’s over video


Brian Lord: That’s at the end of the day, like people listening this hopefully they are better at something they’re more inspired to do something better than they were before they started listening to it.


David Horsager: Well, to this point. We all love to make a difference part at least many of us are in it for this there is people that are in it, just for the money or just entertained, whatever.


David Horsager: But you and I were in this. We love to make an impact. But when you see speakers. I mean, there’s, there’s a


David Horsager: reasonable argument that hey, you go speak for an hour. You’re not making the impact with that. And there’s some, there’s some reasonableness to that. But when you see people that took that hour or 60 minutes or 90 minutes 45 minutes 90 minutes 30


Brian Lord: Minutes.


David Horsager: And they actually made an impact. They that was like that was something what was there. Well, you know,


David Horsager: Maybe there’s a specific speaker, you’re thinking of, or maybe it’s a story of maybe it’s just what did they do, what did they have those that really took those minutes and added value to them and made an impact.


Brian Lord: Um, MAN, THAT IS TOUGH TO THAT IS TOUGH TO YOUR really put me on the spot here.


Brian Lord: I mean I think just, I mean, I mean, you can look at somebody like Jim Morris, I mean his story. He was the Disney’s The rookie


Brian Lord: And of course, there’s a dramatic story of him going out and playing baseball. But there’s also the story of him coming from this abusive childhood and


Brian Lord: You know, Bob goth. I know you and I are both Bob golf fans, but he says that you’re either a


Brian Lord: A reflection or reaction to your parents. And so, you either intentionally or going out there to be just like your parents or to be just the opposite of them, and we all have that choice and so


Brian Lord: You know Jim Morris. He’s like, I’m going to be there for all these kids because my dad wasn’t there for me.


Brian Lord: And so, you know, he never goes to Major Leagues if he doesn’t have this bet with his kids, but they trusted him that he would follow through with this bet that if he


Brian Lord: If they want the sectional he would try out for the majors, even though he was this you know 37 or whatever year old guy.


Brian Lord: And in just those speakers that they make that difference and Rick Rigsby is another one who


Brian Lord: You know, talks about lessons from a third grade dropout. You know that story, you know, Andy Andrews is another he, you know, you know, Andy.


Brian Lord: And I really like his just with it you know he lost both of his parents. I was an orphan, but both the same story of finding sort of your future through reading, you know, I was a book addict.


Brian Lord: My grandma paid me. She said, I’ll pay you $2 for every Newbery Award winning book and classic that you read. So I’m like a second grader.


Brian Lord: Kind of understanding Tale of Two Cities eating it, you know, reading, reading the book while eating wheaties in the morning and because I could save up and buy an Atari and then Atari is weren’t. Cool. By the time because I kept spending all my money on on


Brian Lord: On baseball cards and candy and stuff like that. And so by end up reading hundreds of books and I so when I heard Andy story of


Brian Lord: You know, he was homeless living under a pier, but he could still go to the library and he had this mentor who came along and


Brian Lord: Made him read 300 books of the greatest people who ever lived, you know, all these autobiographies and it really changed him and that that always resonated resonated with me.


Brian Lord: Because, you know, doesn’t matter how rich or poor, you are, you’re able to get access to books and get those ideas and realize that you’re not too far off from those other people


Brian Lord: Even though they were great at some point, at some point they weren’t and there’s that journey in between. And you can get that through reading and through learning


David Horsager: I love it. Well, I think, you know, it’s interesting.


David Horsager: We have this special opportunity to make an impact. But, you know,


David Horsager: I think what I like about that story compared to some is it’s not the person necessarily that climb Mount Everest. That’s the most inspiring because I’m not going to do that.


David Horsager: The most inspiring speaker is one that gives me an idea. I can use tomorrow morning.


David Horsager: And then like Andy if he inspires people to read more, or to shift somehow to shift thinking in a way that they can do something tomorrow morning about it. I mean, I also think of just


David Horsager: In our company. We just because of my passion for impact we changed everything away from just speaking speaking is Big deal. It’s a lead but we hear good Minnesota term for you right ice ice. So outside of the research we do at the


David Horsager: Institute that i is this inspires shift of


David Horsager: Thinking and then the the sea and the acronym is clarify and measure in our case, we measure trust because if we can measure it, we can close the gap right and the he is equip and we have a process for ongoing


David Horsager: But I, I, I was always thinking, well, man. I just I just spoke at that they loved it. We signed a bunch of books and all that. But how can we help them.


David Horsager: Go from here to here. And that’s actually that motivation is why we change the business. However, I am also in full agreement that you can be changed by someone in a moment in a story.


David Horsager: Even better if we can give a follow up or something. But basically, because I’ve been changed one thought one inspiration and I think usually though it’s it’s one when I think


David Horsager: I could do something with that, not necessarily the celebrity, for me at least as much unless I resonate with how they did it and like, like you said, well, didn’t have parents or whatever it was that resonated with that that awesome


David Horsager: Yeah, so let’s get to you, uh, you know, we’re talking about trust the leaders and they tend to have some habits that we can


David Horsager: Replicate and I think of you, what what habits do you have that have helped you lead premier lead your family lead on stage and


onstage and offstage


David Horsager: Favorite habits or routines.


Brian Lord: Well, I mean, I think one of it. I mean, like, I’m one of the leaders at premier so realizing that that there are others here and you can’t. You have to have those different leaders, whether and a lot. Most of its through action.


Brian Lord: Some of its through talk, but most of its through action, I think, realizing that is a big thing that


Brian Lord: You know, you get in trouble because I know people say you say we too much. Well, that’s because I really don’t like I realized that I might be a person that’s out in front, a little bit more like I don’t mind being on camera.


Brian Lord: I don’t mind, you know, doing a lot of those sort of front forward things


Brian Lord: But I’m not here without everybody else. I mean, it’s kind of like the, you know, you got a fighter pilot. But you’ve got 30 people on the crew or 100 people on the crew.


Brian Lord: Getting them up there and not to mention the people who built the plane and and working on the guidance and everything else.


Brian Lord: So even if you are the face or one of the faces you aren’t the person that is is making everything go, you’re just part of it.


Brian Lord: I think, you know, constantly learning. So, I mean, I try to work in learning every chance I can get


Brian Lord: You know, whether it’s learning languages, going back and forth. So it’s kind of funny I randomly spoke German with somebody like the only two sentences. I knew the other day.


Brian Lord: And that was, that was kind of a fun thing to build a relationship and


Brian Lord: And then masterclass I think you have to be a learner to continue learning things outside your field inside your field outside your field for us, it’s easy to just because if I’m reviewing speakers. I’m usually learning something.


Brian Lord: You know, staying in shape being healthy, you know, I’ve, you know, for me, it’s no longer like an issue like I went back and so the last time I missed a day working out was March 15 so I haven’t


Brian Lord: So usually I get in, you know, probably 360 days a year of either running or biking or swimming, something like that. Let’s do that.


David Horsager: Okay, you’re busy. You got your running


David Horsager: You know your president Premier, you’re, you’re, you know, got four kids.


Brian Lord: Trying to be a good dad husband friend.


David Horsager: What, what’s your routine for getting the workout in. Or, you know, even in the morning. What’s your routine.


Brian Lord: Sure. Well, kind of my personal free time that I get to choose what to do with is generally between about five and 6:30am


Brian Lord: So I will usually wake up today was a little bit earlier that for something and then I finally talked myself back and forth about it finally got out of bed at five, one of those things like am I going to go back sleeping on that when you


David Horsager: Die and


David Horsager: When you go to bed to sleep.


Brian Lord: Whenever my wife finishes watches the watching the show. So he actually bought some sort of show. So I think last night was probably 10 so 10 to four.


Brian Lord: Sometimes it’s 11 to five. One time I think I slept and slept into seven but now it’s really a habit to not to not sleep that late. My wife is a California girl. So she’s on Pacific time and I’m definitely not. So we have different sleep habits. So usually, that’s when I get in


Brian Lord: A workout that usually 30 to 45 minutes I i’ve done marathons, but I haven’t. I didn’t do any of the past, you know, 2020, it was a different year so


Brian Lord: So, so


David Horsager: All right. Going to athletic. I gotta hear this more about sleep. So are you saying normal is six hours of sleep or seven hours of sleep or went, you’re going to bed around


David Horsager: 10 and you’re getting up at four or five


Brian Lord: It has been a little crazy. So about it’s almost four years ago now, we adopted newborn twins. And so we I got had very regular sleep. So for a while I was getting that two hours of sleep a night. And then I started


Brian Lord: It’s just sleep as a little crazy for me, but I can tell if it is bad. So if it’s affecting me that I try to figure out a way to take a nap.


Brian Lord: But usually. It’s usually I wake up and if I know I’m not going back to sleep. I start doing stuff. So my rule is if I’m up for 30 minutes I have to actually get up. So if I wake up I give myself 30 minutes. Go back to sleep.


Brian Lord: But I don’t know the last time I really set an alarm unless I had to be someplace which hasn’t been that much recently. So I’d probably say six hours might be the case, but it’s if I can’t go back to sleep. I get something done.


David Horsager: So you get up at five, then what


Brian Lord: Then you know either 3045 minutes on the bike in the basement. So that’s where I get to catch up on all my movies and, you know, watch the whole MC you series or


Brian Lord: Or a record. I still have recordings of the Tour de France from this summer. So I watched that this morning where I’m kind of going back through the tour.


Brian Lord: And so it’s easier to bike when you’re watching people bike and I’m into the sport. So I actually like it like I can’t understand how people watch golf.


Brian Lord: But I can understand how people watch cycling and I can see how that would be the reverse, and then I’ll usually, you know, like one of my hobbies is writing and so


Brian Lord: You know, all right. Some and then get up and go, if it’s a day while I’m working from home. I’ll usually get the twins up from my wife. So just getting them out of


Brian Lord: Their what they slept in and into what they are going to be running around in that day and making them eggs or something like that. And my wife takes over. And if not, I’m at work. So Monday’s a work at work day and then


Brian Lord: Goes from there. So that’s how I get it in for me. I actually kind of my brain is very sludgy if I don’t exercise. First thing, and then also


Brian Lord: I have a lot less energy if I if I don’t work out. So for me it’s it my day is much worse if I don’t work out.


Brian Lord: And it’s really just a habit. Now, I mean, I can’t even, like, why did I not work out on March 15


Brian Lord: But it was kind of funny because my brothers. Like that’s really high on the grit scale because you know everybody’s into like the Angela Duckworth gritty and like, I don’t know, I just do it. It’s not a like I don’t have to make myself get up and work out. I just do it. Yeah.


David Horsager: Is there any, anything to this point. Any tips that you’ve you’ve learned now as a as a parent that making you a great dad or great husband or or routines that are


David Horsager: Like I always do this or or even with your marriage like


Brian Lord: You know,


David Horsager: This is something that’s really been valuable for us.


Brian Lord: When I was in college. It’s really funny. So, usually in your college all the talks about don’t drink. Don’t do drugs don’t have said don’t do all don’t all this don’t stuff.


Brian Lord: And so we had this couple in and they were doing a talk and they were really old, they were like 28 or 30 or something and


Brian Lord: And so we’re expecting that kind of talk. And this was it like I think university or something, some kind of meeting right there and we


Brian Lord: And so the woman started saying don’t put bricks up in your marriage and like none of us are married. Like, why are you. Why are you telling us this


Brian Lord: Don’t put bricks in your marriage is still, it should say so there’s just one bad thing here and you just put it down. So one bad thing. You still see across everything


Brian Lord: And then, but what happens, you start putting you start putting these bricks all together and they start building up a wall.


Brian Lord: And then, and she’s like, excuse so passionate about this and their time was up. And so the husband’s like okay let’s go and always reminded me like Empire Strikes Back when they’re pulling lady and she’s like, It’s a trap. It’s a trap. And then


Brian Lord: Please don’t put up bricks. Don’t put it breaks. Don’t put up bricks.


Brian Lord: And it just, it just stuck with me forever like don’t put up bricks and so


Brian Lord: So, my wife is amazing. She’s much too good for me I’m like an Indiana farm boy who, you know, married this smart, beautiful Southern California girl sign in, where my head every day but


Brian Lord: But the thing is, is like, don’t put it breaks, like


Brian Lord: Because you can start adding up all the little things that went wrong even a perfect person like my wife will maybe do some stuff and I do some stuff.


Brian Lord: And so my reaction to that is, if I am starting to get mad about something.


Brian Lord: I will take it out by cleaning. So I know that my my physical reaction is to be mad and do something mean but I’ve trained myself to do something nice. So my wife her love language is cleaning. I don’t know where. Which of the five that is


Brian Lord: But that is service coming downstairs, because I yesterday, so I wake up before she does.


Brian Lord: Every day of our marriage, I think. And so if I come down. I just go say I’ll do five minutes of clean five minutes of plane. And so I will switch that crankiness


Brian Lord: To five minutes of clean and even if it’s just getting one area in the kitchen, clean, she will be that much less upset. The next day, instead of me putting up bricks. Like, I’m just going to do something is going to make her mad.


Brian Lord: And our kids see that you know we’ve got four kids and they watched so much like I’ve, I’ve observed so much. Now, especially the second time. So we’ve got a 10 year gap between our oldest and the two youngest


Brian Lord: Of how they really, really pick up on what you do. So I’m hoping that they pick up on that of, you know, doing those little things like mentally. I’m a little ticked off but but physically. I’m going to take that and do something loving for my wife.


David Horsager: Even though I don’t feel. I love it.


Brian Lord: And so that’s been a huge thing for us. And my wife’s much too good for me so


David Horsager: The thing I like about this that ties it all together like


David Horsager: Hey, you heard a story you started talking about story.


David Horsager: Uterus. It was so powerful, so sticky so


David Horsager: Actionable that you acted on it and start putting up bricks and that’s you know as communicators and learners and trainers and developers. There’s a lot more. I’d like to say about all this and


David Horsager: I’d love to get into just learning and how we create learnings from the stage, how we


Brian Lord: Created


David Horsager: In companies. How we get clients. Maybe we’ll, we’ll come back to it. We’re going to get to a lightning round in a moment, but I gotta run over and jump to my producer can do you have any great question here for Mr. Lord


David Horsager: So, uh, Brian, I was, I was just curious since you are over. I mean, you’re leading a lot of people and you said that you have a really great team.


David Horsager: But how do you really deal with


David Horsager: When there’s conflict when maybe someone’s


David Horsager: Not doing what they’re supposed to do. Or maybe you’re not you’re not seeing eye to eye. And there’s some kind of


David Horsager: Friction between you two.


David Horsager: How do you deal with that.


Brian Lord: I think it’s just understanding that other people aren’t like you. So for me, my reaction like one of my favorite stories is


Brian Lord: From Winston Churchill in that when they’re in like the bunkers during the 1939 40 raids nazis are bombing London and everything else. And he’s down there.


Brian Lord: In the bunkers and he’s almost kind of excited like he’s, he’s like, and like you don’t want somebody who doesn’t want to be in a position


Brian Lord: Of difficulty and for me sometimes, like with difficult situations like I


Brian Lord: Nobody wants what happened this year. But for me, I’m excited as an opportunity to do something difficult. Like, how do you wake up every day when things are kind of credit and


Brian Lord: You know, and when you’re put in situations where things seem impossible. I just always think there’s a way out of it. There’s a way to succeed.


Brian Lord: And for me, I was there parts. This year I was kind of excited, like, We’ll figure this out. We’re going to get this done. We’re going to be amazing. We’re going to inspire people. We’re going to do these different things and I


Brian Lord: I’d be almost kind of excited when more bad news came in, which are. That sounds weird. It sounds stupid.


Brian Lord: But I always thought about that with Winston Churchill, is that you want that person who is excited figuring out a way how to save your country when you’re getting bombed by overwhelming odds of the Nazis, you know,


Brian Lord: And so we’ve had these server somewhat overwhelming odds, but for me I have to realize that other people aren’t wired that way.


Brian Lord: It’s going to take. So for me, from that time period that was maybe like a day where I was kind of uncertain and and then by March, whatever 18th. I was ready to go and other people it takes a longer time to process difficult things. And so it’s figuring out how to


Brian Lord: How to motivate them or talk to them when things when they don’t make that switch that quickly.


Brian Lord: And maybe there’s some things like I maybe I was trying to rush too far forward.


Brian Lord: But understanding that different people have different ways of coping and they, it may take them a longer time to get around. But once they do, they will be amazing.


Brian Lord: And so it’s having faith and people that even though they have a different personality type or different mentality.


Brian Lord: That they can still come through and to not give up faith and then to encourage and say okay well you don’t feel like doing this right now, but can you do this, what can’t. What does work for you right now.


Brian Lord: How can you do it and I’m much more everybody has their different things. So for me, I’m much better one on one talking or one, you know, one to two


Brian Lord: And there’s some people that live like having 10 or 12 people around, and that’s their thing, or there’s some people like talking on stage. So for me, it’s either stage or one person or two people. I’m not a good


Brian Lord: I’m not as good with the, you know, let’s discuss this out. This thing I’m much more will have this big discussion here. But the really big stuff I’ll do one on one on one or one on two


David Horsager: Have you had to lay some on off ever


Brian Lord: We did as a company with so so we’ve kept


David Horsager: It open because we since we don’t have much time left, and I have to keep


David Horsager: To it like when you have to have that tough conversation like they’re not a fit, they’re great people. They’re great fit somewhere in the world. What, what do you do in that kind of a tension.


Brian Lord: I think it is just realizing that there’s going to be something better out there. I mean, there’s legal stuff you can say you can’t say


Brian Lord: But I think if it’s none of that stuff applies. It is really just figuring out that this


Brian Lord: Isn’t the right fit. And maybe there’s something else out there that that you’re the perfect person for something else. I mean, I, if I would have stayed at William Morris, I would not have been here.


Brian Lord: And you know we’ve had. Those are the things I didn’t get laid off mine was more like there’s nowhere else for you to go right now. And my boss, there actually helped me get the job here.


Brian Lord: But it was just realizing that there’s certain things that people is its season for different things. And sometimes it’s here. Sometimes it somewhere else. Sure.


David Horsager: And there’s a lot more, you could, you know, conflict. The other way of dealing with the Boston maybe isn’t leaving right or whatever, there’s


David Horsager: Appreciate that, though. Okay, we’re getting a lightning round we got to bring this together, even though we got we have so much more we could ask you about


David Horsager: One favorite book or resource.


Brian Lord: I really like Lord of the Rings. One of my favorite books.


David Horsager: All right, a best advice you’ve ever been given or just a favorite quote or piece of advice.


Brian Lord: Let people think before they talk


David Horsager: And which I’m not doing with you in the lightning round.


Brian Lord: Here we go.


David Horsager: Which is a good quote for this right here.


David Horsager: Love it. Yes.


David Horsager: Well, one, one thing left to do what’s on the bucket list that you’re


David Horsager: You really hope down the road.


Brian Lord: I’d like to get a PhD in history at some point.


David Horsager: Love it. And I love your writing. By the way, I think there’s a lot of people in our world that don’t know how well you right


Brian Lord: Or what you write.


David Horsager: And I like the part of it is the history, the type of history to true stories so


David Horsager: That’s awesome.


David Horsager: Thanks. They there’s, you know, there’s been so much here project the calm. Hey, hungry and honest.


David Horsager: Us story, the discipline of getting up and and actually having creating a habit, where you work off the anger, or at least turn to something else. I’ve got all kinds of notes. I hope you do as well. Where can we find more about Brian


David Horsager: Lord and Premier and what you’re about, and what you’re doing.


Brian Lord: Sure. So my personal Twitter is premier within a PR E m, er, E. Brian, you can find me on Twitter. Their premier speakers.com and then also I host the beyond speaking podcasts and so I know you’ve been a guest night before, and so a lot of interviews there as well.


David Horsager: Great interviews and you’re a great interviewer.


David Horsager: And also to be a to be a part of the, the great stable that you are booking and fun and


David Horsager: Sharing with around the world.


Brian Lord: On the platforms for


David Horsager: Sure, so


David Horsager: This is the trusted leader show this is your last question. Who’s the leader you trust and why


Brian Lord: Ah, man. Are you telling you, like, historically, or are you talking about you. I’m trying to


Brian Lord: You know, one of my all time favorite leaders was john adams who doesn’t get as much credit as that group. He was


Brian Lord: One of the things I like doing is seeing people’s potential and he is the greatest HR manager and human


Brian Lord: In American history. I would say because he picked George Washington to lead the troops when they’re trying to figure out who should take overall command. He picked


Brian Lord: Thomas Jefferson to write the Declaration of Independence, and he even had the opportunity to write it himself, and he pass it off to Thomas Jefferson. And so I think


Brian Lord: Somebody who is really good at picking out what people do best and putting him in that in that situation. To do so is a really great


Brian Lord: Really great trait. And one of those that a lot of people don’t know about. So I’ll go with him for this one. There were a lot of great ones out there, but all


David Horsager: Your art.


David Horsager: That’s a good one. JOHN ADAMS, no one has said that yet.


David Horsager: On this show, you go


David Horsager: Yahtzee. You eat.


David Horsager: Yes, I love it. Have you read the 5000 year gap or 5000 year


Brian Lord: No really, by


David Horsager: It’s, I don’t know, but it’s very fascinating on just this this beginning of the country, how freedom was formed, how


David Horsager: How the final 5000 year leap how really that declaration of independence that


David Horsager: Constitution gave


David Horsager: The world. The 5000 year leap.


David Horsager: Forward.


David Horsager: In many ways, and so not there aren’t plenty of challenges to talk about, but


David Horsager: Yeah, there we go. So Brian, this has been fun. And I could just, I could talk to you all day but I


David Horsager: appreciate you spending time with us and the leaders listening today and


Brian Lord: I just want to say thank you. Hey. Well, David. Thanks so much for having me on. This has been a lot of fun.


David Horsager: Appreciate it. So you can find everything about Brian at the show notes trusted leaders show.com trusted leader show.com it’s been the trusted leader show. Thanks for joining us and we’ll see you next time, stay trusted

Accelerate Your Performance Through Trust
Click “Receive Access” to get our COMPLIMENTARY Trust Tools and join 25,000+ leaders that are increasing their performance.
We respect your privacy. Your information is safe and will never be shared.
Don't miss out. Get FREE tools today.
×
×