Ep. 20: Horst Schulze on Why Getting Customers Is NOT The Most Important

In this episode, David sits down with Horst Schulze, Founding Member and Former President and COO of The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, Founder of The Capella Hotel Group, Expert in Residence at Arch + Tower, and author, to discuss the 4 supreme objectives that every company should have, and why getting new customers is NOT your highest priority.

Mr. Schulze’s Bio:
A legend and leader in the hotel world, Horst Schulze’s teachings and vision have reshaped the concepts of service and hospitality across industries.

Mr. Schulze’s professional life began more than 65 years ago as a server’s assistant in a German resort town. Throughout the years he worked for both Hilton Hotels and Hyatt Hotels Corporation before becoming one of the founding members of The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company in 1983. There Mr. Schulze created the operating and service standards that have become world famous.

During his tenure at The Ritz Carlton, Mr. Schulze served as President and COO responsible for the $2 billion operations worldwide. It was under his leadership that The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company became the first service-based company to be awarded the prestigious Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award — twice.

In 1991, Mr. Schulze was recognized as “corporate hotelier of the world” by HOTELS magazine. In 1995, he was awarded the Ishikawa Medal for his personal contributions to the quality movement. In 1999, Johnson & Wales University gave him an honorary Doctor of Business Administration degree in Hospitality Management.

Most recently, Mr. Schulze has been honored as a “Leader in Luxury” by Travel Agent magazine and its sister publication Luxury Travel Advisor.

After leaving The Ritz Carlton Hotel Company, Mr. Schulze went on to found The Capella Hotel Group. This luxury hotel company managed some of the most elite properties worldwide, and gave Mr. Schulze the opportunity to further define the luxury hotel industry, receiving countless awards and recognitions.

Today, Mr. Schulze serves as Expert in Residence at Arch + Tower, a boutique, organizational strategy consulting firm. He recently completed his first book on Excellence Wins.

Mr. Schulze’s Links:
Website: https://horstschulze.com/
Additional Leadership Content: https://needtolead.com/
“Excellence Wins” by Horst Schulze: https://amzn.to/3tRb8l5
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheHorstSchulze
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehorstschulze/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/horstschulze/

Key Quotes:
1. “Verbiage and appearance is very very important. It establishes trust or distrust in a person’s subconscious.”
2. “Its easy to give hospitality to everybody.”
3. “The hospitality part in any business is essential.”
4. “Service is not about you. Service is about the other.”
5. “You should move heaven and earth to make sure the customer is happy.”
6. “The greatest driver of eventual loyalty is the caring piece.”
7. “The product is not creating loyalty.”
8. “Loyalty is nothing but trust.”
9. “Trust is not created with a product, its created with the relationship moment.”
10. “Taking something away from the customer is not efficiency.”
11. “Hope is not a process. Hope is not a strategy.”
12. “Behavior cannot be taught after you’re 16 years old, unless there is a significant emotional event.”
13. “A team is a group of people that have a common objective.”
14. “Excellence is never an accident.”
15. “How can I do better?”
16. “We are all here to serve our fellow man.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Excellence Wins” by Horst Schulze: https://amzn.to/3tRb8l5
“The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen R. Covey: https://amzn.to/39cNbNi
“Critique of Pure Reason” by Immanuel Kant: https://amzn.to/2QD9vJB
“The Effective Executive” by Peter F. Drucker: https://amzn.to/3d3goLR

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager, and today I have an enormously special guest, and I just want to show you because you might not see it, but I don’t read everybody’s book page to page cover to cover highlight dog ear and.


David Horsager: Take the cover off so i’m going to keep that hidden for those that aren’t watching the video and just listening i’m going to just read a little bit because I want to get this right.


David Horsager: Horst Schulze he’s a legend and leader in the hotel world he’s one of the founding members of ritz carlton hotel company.


David Horsager: He created the operating and service standard that have come, it has become world famous.


David Horsager: During his tenure at ritz carlton he served as President and CEO later he was on the board, I know he was responsible for 2 billion and operations worldwide under his leadership ritz carlton became the first service based company, some of you know how big a deal, this is.


David Horsager: To be awarded the prestigious Malcolm baldrige national quality award twice.


David Horsager: he’s won numerous awards, including corporate hotel you of the year right hotel magazine.


David Horsager: He cow metal he was recognized as a leader in luxury by travel agent magazine after leaving ritz carlton he started capella hotel group and he’s done a whole lot of other things he’s now.


David Horsager: An expert in residence at arching tower his first, and I must say excellent book, it is called excellence wins I wish had the real cover you need to see it we’re going to give you all the ways, you can find it and get it and i’m going to start with one more personal note, to maybe.


David Horsager: My best friend Joe Campbell we started our businesses, about the same time, he said when he took his company from nothing to 11 million.


David Horsager: He said, if he says one thing he built it on it was on Mr Horst Schulze these principles we’re going to get into those today.


David Horsager: My friend has now started a second company, and you can see the thread of the key principles of exactly West horse teaches in his second company so let’s get into it please welcome Mr Horst Schulze.


Horst Schulze: David it’s nice to be with you.


David Horsager: Well, I it’s it’s our honor you know I believe you know many people here have chick fil a these days, and I believe you can be credited with the frontline folks at chick replacing my pleasure is that true.


Horst Schulze: Yes or no interesting enough, I was meeting with the chick fil a play executives and then a consulting time meeting and day they found a true it.


Horst Schulze: was sitting in the background, and I said, look at it, you have to think about the work that divorce of your employees use instead of saying hey.


Horst Schulze: When you say welcome, I know, good afternoon, and so on, there because it’s much more professional and you were establishing yourself as more professional and instead of saying saying okay.


Horst Schulze: Why don’t we add ritz carlton say my pleasure now that’s not good for you, because your market segment is ours is a pentium market segment, you should use other words let’s let’s decide what we’re going to use and everybody agreed.


Horst Schulze: Except after little discussion in the background truth, the founder said, excuse me, I, like my pleasure.


Horst Schulze: I said.


Horst Schulze: I mean to Kathy, yes, but not for your market segment you shouldn’t use it, and he said I like it, that was it is.


Horst Schulze: Different I was discussing the verbiage generally that you should have when you deal with the customer, no matter who the customer is.


Horst Schulze: You know it very important when I was in my business, you know I hire Center syndicates and three days later they’re facing the chairman of the board of the Bank of England.


Horst Schulze: How do I make sure that that moment of being the action works well and elegantly and that’s why I said verbiage and appearance and all that is very, very important, it establishes trust or distrust in a person’s subconscious mind is you.


David Horsager: Absolutely, and just a note, you know chick fil a people don’t know it.


David Horsager: Many don’t, but if you look at the year your annual revenue.


David Horsager: per store of a taco bell it’s just over 4000 per store average, then you get up the market chain, a little bit 1.1 million to.


David Horsager: Some of them that you get you know burger King 1.5 million average you get to the big ones to have them stand out, and that is mcdonald’s and panera there at 2.5 million ports per store average except for one and they don’t work on Sundays.


David Horsager: And they you know it’s just a remarkable story last I looked and talk to the executives that chick fil a it was average per store revenue annually was $4.4 million.


David Horsager: that’s rivaling everybody wait.


David Horsager: And he said what’s that.


Horst Schulze: Everybody that blow away everybody.


David Horsager: Everybody by almost by double to mcdonald’s and and one thing he said was them, you know hey it is just chicken it’s it’s not laced in you know addictive drugs like people think it’s just chicken but it’s we win on training.


David Horsager: And this is why I think it’s a connection to what you’ve done there and your your whole philosophy, because he said we people feel differently it’s the same they have the same frontline people as those that work at.


David Horsager: mcdonald’s they don’t just come out of the womb saying my pleasure, we train them.


Horst Schulze: So well listen but, by the way, I that was an argument I had been some of it is the store manager trusted store that their own hop hop owners and managers.


Horst Schulze: That you would they said well most I talked about hospitality with them and what that means.


Horst Schulze: About coming on fatality just have one you don’t understand, most of our business is trying to do, you cannot get hospitality yeah well why not it’s only seconds and it’d be an argument so funny so let me, let me work the the ticket window so i’ve worked it for a day.


Horst Schulze: And and and it’s easy it’s easy to give hospitality to get everybody in the hospitality part in any business is essential because he had this.


Horst Schulze: But David you or anybody listening here you’re in your office when there are some other guys around so let’s go for lunch, where do you go for lunch.


Horst Schulze: With the food is good is not true you’re going to go where you felt good.


Horst Schulze: That includes the food.


Horst Schulze: But it includes the hollow the surrounding the clean and ssp all the pieces that make up hospitality is included there and it’s it’s the food itself it’s not true it’s only part.


Horst Schulze: Absolutely hospitality.


Horst Schulze: is very important that that hospital that moment of saying hello, that moment of creating an opinion in the other end the customer and so on, is essential.


David Horsager: In fact, I heard someone say when they were they were asking let’s not just step on chick fil a again are talking about them, but they said, well, the reason I go there is because I feel differently.


David Horsager: it’s clean it’s this and that, but you know.


David Horsager: I think it was my Angela who famously said.


David Horsager: Basically, nobody cares what you said they don’t care what you did they just care they remember how you made them feel, and let me tell you, as someone who speaks or has.


David Horsager: Until the pandemic flown about 200 flights year and speaking about 100 conferences around the world, I know what i’m gonna get when I get to step into a ritz carlton, and so I trust the brand I trust, what how i’m gonna feel i’m gonna one mentioned, so I.


David Horsager: At one time in my life I lost about a decade ago 52 pounds in five and a half months it changed my workout scheme it changed how I eat, so I was speaking at a big conference at a ritz carlton.


David Horsager: and afterwards in the evening I went down to the front desk on my way up to my room and I just said, where was the workout facility again and I just arrived right before I spoke, and I was going to.


David Horsager: go up to my room and go work out because I was committed to working out, no matter what time it was.


David Horsager: I suppose it was after the event and signing books and all these things and he’s the gentleman said.


David Horsager: The workout facility is closed, but I would be happy to open it for you, Mr horse soccer what time can I meet you there and I went up got my.


David Horsager: You know workout clothes on and I don’t know 11 or so at night he opened at the ritz carlton the workout Center just for me to get my workout in right.


Horst Schulze: Well, well at the moment, the moment been me to customer service stops service is not about you services, about the other.


Horst Schulze: is doing the best for the other person it’s not about you anymore in that moment it’s about the customer and you should move move heaven and earth to make sure the customers happy.


Horst Schulze: Right that’s our job, I mean let’s face it, hotel business that’s all we do we don’t we don’t build anything I mean if you have a shoe store that’s also all the do because they don’t make shoes, in fact, that is called hospitality.


David Horsager: But somehow you do it differently.


David Horsager: So let’s get into that because you created something totally different.


David Horsager: than everybody else.


David Horsager: And I want to remind everyone and everybody will see it in the show notes trusted leader show.com but excellence wins.


David Horsager: If you weren’t just listening and you were actually watching this you would see, I have this book dog eared and outlined and and.


David Horsager: As you know, I read a lot, but not always like this, and so I want to just touch on a few key ideas here, you know you talk about three universals tell us about those.


Horst Schulze: Well, the expectation of the customer, I guess that’s why we’re talking about.


Horst Schulze: What it is it’s a universal the market, you can look at the market over there, what is a mother or potential market and you get two or three things for sure that one.


Horst Schulze: So you better have processes and systems on measurements you’d be delivered and does this subconscious expectation like what you will have anybody hits your one, the product of the defect free you know.


Horst Schulze: Taken I always use an example of a bottle of water, if you buy a bottle of water you don’t want anything to swim and day you expect subconsciously that it is defect free.


Horst Schulze: Number two very important, by the way, and you have to underline it 10 times is timeliness everything today is very important that your timely responses that you.


Horst Schulze: You won that battle of more than when you want it and you want an immediate answer to your email etc to 10 minutes, so not effect.


Horst Schulze: terminus and number three what you want the one the people that give it to you the bottle of water or whatever it is to be nice to you.


Horst Schulze: to care for you now here’s the here’s the crazy thing and i’m invite businesses don’t get that the greatest driver of eventual southern section adventure loyalty is to caring piece.


Horst Schulze: Which means you have to you have to process and make sure that is excellence and relationship between your employees between you and those that buy from you.


Horst Schulze: that the product is not creating loyalty.


Horst Schulze: Loyalty is nothing but trust they trust you that tree terms of customer but i’m fast as a deep dive on a distrust you.


Horst Schulze: Who are who are who are terrorists against your company now when you go on social media did whatever destroy you.


Horst Schulze: don’t need a loyal done it is satisfied one they got nine next door if they think there’s a better deal and unless the one that are loyal to you when a loyal to trusting you and trust is not created with the product is created with the relationship moment.


David Horsager: Only the relationship, you say this in the book page 77 I highlighted it every relationship in life starts out with distrust.


Horst Schulze: that’s correct in the moment when I meet you and I don’t know we I know i’m not going to trust you with anything I mean, and of course it moves right away to neutral.


Horst Schulze: It depends on the subconscious decision that I make about you that and that depends on how we sell alone and how my thinking is how we look, and so on, we can’t help that.


Horst Schulze: Now society tells you other bs and don’t say you should be looked at in this ridiculous, the fact is a human being does how we react react distrust it moves to neutral.


Horst Schulze: And and in business or in relationship you try to move it as possible as fast as possible to trust and that depends on your behavior and how you think.


Horst Schulze: And it’s that simple know if you don’t mind for a moment.


Horst Schulze: Please that’s kind of human excellence human excellence.


Horst Schulze: Is is for trump is number one if you do your very best in your function studying fulfilling life number to do your very best in relationship.


Horst Schulze: And of course number three do your very best morally if I put those things together, but it’s the relationship piece that piece, which creates opinion and others about you or your organization.


David Horsager: Number three you talk about morally and it seems like we have some challenges in our world today, and I think it’s interesting, even in the book, you talked about the Ben addicting model that you went by of you know, treating everyone as if they were Christ.


David Horsager: Well, seeing them them this way tell me about that.


Horst Schulze: But yeah well at Benedict and you understand the bending from the monasteries in Europe and the monasteries were used as shelters.


Horst Schulze: When you travel through the land and he wrote to his aba is in 500 as one, the first TEE teaching that I learned I could find on teaching hospitality is that if if a traveler arrives treat him as if it was Jesus himself, in fact, if you’re the Abbey you should wash his feet.


Horst Schulze: and end, in fact, if you they are be and the trouble is by himself and you are on a fast break the fast and have dinner with them so he’s not by himself now, if that is hospitality how close, can I come to that today.


Horst Schulze: Depression myself know.


Horst Schulze: what’s up.


David Horsager: yeah How does that play out in a ritz carlton or your work today.


Horst Schulze: But my birthday, but, by the way, after it’s called formed a group called capella which is sold little bit over a year ago which couple of hotel in in volume was just bought the best hotel in the village.


Horst Schulze: So the philosophy works everywhere and it worked in five continents in in ritz carlton five continents.


Horst Schulze: Everywhere, we were when I was running the company, we were the Leader absolutely there.


Horst Schulze: And how does it, how does it work out the same way you come as close as possible to make sure that you’re creating is exceptional, because, is it is in that initial content.


Horst Schulze: When a customer makes a decision about you subconsciously now he or she may change that decision going forward.


Horst Schulze: But there’s a pretty deep decision being made in the initial content, so we taught, for example, no matter what you’re doing.


Horst Schulze: If a if a customer comes within nine feet three meters you look up you do stand up you look them in the eye and said.


Horst Schulze: Good afternoon welcome welcome more whatever so you establish this positive in their mind immediately, which makes them feel respected.


Horst Schulze: And looks they make them feel about that you are a professional in what you’re doing in your service world.


Horst Schulze: So it’s very important moments, and always say and again, and instead of saying okay when it goes one sometimes i’m happy to do that it’s my pleasure.


Horst Schulze: Instead of so we had about 20 points which we taught, which were non negotiable that had to happen any customer in the action and the head to happen superior to anybody else who was in the business and we taught we keep on teaching that reminding them every day of it.


David Horsager: I love that because you know, one of the pillars of trust is consistency if you’re late all the time i’ll trust you to be late, if you.


David Horsager: Speak you know it’s, the only way to build a reputation or brand is consistency and I know you teach those every single day, but what about i’ve got a complainer.


David Horsager: And i’ve got someone whining and you have a whole process for how you deal with a complaint.


David Horsager: How do you do it.


Horst Schulze: Well, we call that problem resolution in fact every employee was certified in problem resolution because, again that tree terms of customer remember that they did the terrorist.


Horst Schulze: dissatisfied, and the ambassador your Ambassador customer and I want them to all be Ambassador now if the if the customer has a problem there is a potential terrorist.


Horst Schulze: So in that moment we taught our employees, if the guest has a complain to first of all them to follow five steps up well number one listen very carefully.


Horst Schulze: Listen attentive number to empathize.


Horst Schulze: Number three apologize number four make corrections when necessary number four delight.


Horst Schulze: With that moment, if you have a complaint about something to the boss point the morning hypothetically that a busboy after and said I feel so bad about it, I buy a breakfast now, the key element in the apology is forgive me not forgive them.


Horst Schulze: Because we know that over 96% of customers that have a concern and complain didn’t want anything they just want to get rid of their frustration, so we have to show that we’ve taken.


Horst Schulze: empathize forgive me i’m so sorry I make sure it will be corrected, yes and but not said well they do it all done in them, I don’t have I don’t have nothing to do with a TV in your room i’m a busboy know and and why wouldn’t your all your employees be told that way because.


Horst Schulze: You don’t want the customer running into situation where we said, well, I tell them happens all the time, and you and you make them a terrorist instead if the buzzword says, please forgive me here in movies, are immediately to being an ambassador is amazed.


David Horsager: And, and you give leeway to for everybody it’s trained every day, by the way, every single day, these 24 principles are trained, so people hear them everyday people and and one one noteworthy.


David Horsager: piece was when you when you said you give everybody a up to $2,000 to decide themselves how they can take care of somebody and and all of a sudden you’ve got a whole team buying metal detectors and finding a wedding wedding ring right that’s.


Horst Schulze: What I have to laugh every time this subject comes up because you have that ascend David that sounds like a story today at that time, and I said every employee has to write up to $2,000 it wasn’t a nuclear bomb went off.


Horst Schulze: The investors everybody’s declared me insane do want to put me in an asylum, I mean you want us boys, to give $2,000 away everybody to dorman know I want them to keep the customer.


Horst Schulze: At one to tell them, I want to tell each employee, I trust you with that decision so.


David Horsager: This is good.


David Horsager: This gets well to your.


David Horsager: Your for supreme objectives and this change the way I thought about business because number one isn’t get customers number one is what you talking about right there, and that is.


David Horsager: Our customers tell me about the for tell our audience about.


David Horsager: This for supreme objectives.


Horst Schulze: Think about if you’re on your organization, what are the four principal things that you have to process it behind an organized and and misha and so on.


Horst Schulze: For me, absolute number one and it cannot be encroached on by to dream for absolute number one skip the customers that you’re here.


Horst Schulze: And, of course, was one decision that we made Okay, we make sure we keep them and, in particular today.


Horst Schulze: You business people, you must understand that, today, a dissatisfied customer can go out and destroy you on the Internet and social media so number one keep the customer in every employee should be aligned to that that’s called alignment number two What do you do find new ones, of course.


Horst Schulze: But much to dissatisfied ones that you have to the loyal ones at here number three what you do get as much money as it came from the customer oh without without losing them, in other words you’re giving value.


Horst Schulze: And it has to be very clear charge as much as you can my goodness we have some hotels now with capella and it thousand dollars a night and so on, and we are busier than anybody else.


Horst Schulze: Because you’re giving value for it so number one people number two new ones number two make sure you get money number for efficiency.


Horst Schulze: Efficiency you don’t do it blowing money into it efficiently by will.


Horst Schulze: Not cost cutting because that’s what everybody is an expert in particular in my business that comes to order from from from corporate office somewhere in the words.


Horst Schulze: To a hotel somewhere in the world and saying we need more efficiency and what do they do, they take the flowers away from the customer.


Horst Schulze: Taking something away from the customer is not efficiency it’s cost cutting.


Horst Schulze: Looking at your own processes and make sure, without changing the outcome, you save money that is efficiency that you do that by eliminating your own mistakes, etc, etc.


David Horsager: I like that you know these four and there’s so many people that talk about getting new customer, how do you get clients, how do you get clients and it’s so much easier.


David Horsager: better and more fun to keep customers and I just I love, where you start with this, because it made our thinking, are we really taking care of those that we have well and that you know changed our business and they tell others.


Horst Schulze: into one single I think I think you have a hardware store I don’t care.


Horst Schulze: And it should be everybody’s objective in that store that works for you and yourself that as soon as somebody walks in there you convince them.


Horst Schulze: By you caring that it will come back, even if they don’t buy anything, this time that you’re there for them that you respect them.


Horst Schulze: And then you have to look at that and then process this in your hope is not a process hope is not a strategy, you have to make sure processes are graded by selecting the right employee by teaching them right by reminding them by role blame for them everything.


David Horsager: I like what you said, also in the book about we don’t hire we select in fact you want to you select at least you got to have 10 people to select one.


David Horsager: But how do you get it right so many people I was just reading a study recently that said, people get hiring executives are right right, whether they do assessments or not about 51% of the time.


Horst Schulze: that’s correct that’s one guess what let’s think about that what, if I can move it to 55% i’m winning have a better team, and that was my end that I was really struggling on that for years and i’ve tried all kinds of things to Villa run into an organization on helped me.


Horst Schulze: To assess what talent is needed in each job that I had, and then it says, be able to ask question assess if that talent exists in the person who applied for the job.


Horst Schulze: In and and it turned out when they said don’t hire them a 90% right if this a higher they were 70% right but it’s better than 5050 so I spend the money, I wanted to have people that I want to have the team that I know is a better team that they have my competition.


Horst Schulze: And so we use this exclusively very careful from dishwasher to Vice President, everybody, but but what’s the result get Let me give you one result the hood all if there’s hotel years on the restaurant people listening, you know that our industry has over 100% turnover he.


Horst Schulze: did so with other what’s the knowledge books right out the door again we produce our when our turnover down and ritz carlton to under 20%.


Horst Schulze: by the industry stood a 100% so my the knowledge was staying inside.


Horst Schulze: and


Horst Schulze: Of course, the saving money of that long term, because in the beginning and cost money, but long term keep it you keep more customers save money, you have knowledge.


David Horsager: and keeping them employees, I mean if you.


David Horsager: haven’t figured I don’t know.


David Horsager: For sure the hotel industry, but I met in many industries even frontline that the cost of term retention of someone you want to keep is at least two and a half times hiring cost.


David Horsager: Of course you’re saving millions right there.


Horst Schulze: It goes without saying, does the right thing.


David Horsager: So you know you’re an expert in customer service and in people and relationships, but there are some difficult people out there.


David Horsager: You talked about something in the book that I was fascinated by because this one I liked about the book it wasn’t this pollyanna just this or just that it was a balance big view but you know they’re jerks just want to take something away from you and you call it the jerk factor.


Horst Schulze: that’s right that’s right well it exists, you know I mean we we particular in our industry be like to say, say every guest this right, and I will tell all everybody in our organization every guest is right, all the time, but I also know that’s not true.


Horst Schulze: it’s just it’s not except I look at everybody knows that I delegated I mean I delegated everybody up to $2,000 etc, etc, decision making.


Horst Schulze: But I didn’t delegate that you could say a customer is a jerk because otherwise pretty soon, if you have a problem with the customer you’ll need it wasn’t you, it was the customer and that’s not a decision I could delegate, so I said, the only one in the organization.


Horst Schulze: On into hotels around the world, and the only one that can make a decision, if a customer is a jerk or not, and I understand that your record that the church vector and it happened very seldom in I tell the story in there when the guests called an admin.


Horst Schulze: When my manager called and said this guest host, if you like, and I know we cannot draw guest our total.


Horst Schulze: But this guest is impossible, he is everything that happened, including he pinched some ladies and the club lounge.


Horst Schulze: I said okay that’s it you’re now here’s what you do you throw them out, but you do the ritz carlton way.


Horst Schulze: You doubled lock his room, you have a limousine ready for him, you ever reservation ready in another town and you tell them look, we are here.


Horst Schulze: To make sure every guest is happy, you are obviously not happy because he was complaining every day now, we have tried everything we don’t know what else.


Horst Schulze: The last thing we can try now is this we’ve got another hotel for you and beautiful limousine and we have people standby to help you packing and carrying everything down and and and they will get made sure that they have a beautiful room for you so you’re you’re going.


Horst Schulze: Once I knew, you would find me that’s.


Horst Schulze: Clear defined you and then, when I answer the telephone there was somebody screaming I will own your own show you, I know that was Mr Jones.


Horst Schulze: Jones when you Sue me, I will be in the courtroom with the latest that you’re pinched alright so go right ahead it didn’t Sue he showed up again in another hotel of ours fascinating and same thing happened same thing.


David Horsager: And he got another hotel right another limo ride out of it.


David Horsager: Well, I use something interesting you know we talk all the time, about how do you build trust in crisis, how do you build trust in the midst of changing one.


David Horsager: really important thing, even before you know these social you know certain social unrest certain certain pandemic and all these things.


David Horsager: we’ve talked about it’s how you do it, many people complain about change change is going to happen, but how we deal with people how we deal with it matters I watched a.


David Horsager: Big company, you would know we would all know that, basically, the way they laid off 1000 people ruin their trust for a decade and I watched another.


David Horsager: CEO friend of mine here, you would also know that brand and in the midst of the pandemic laid off 2000 people and kept trust with them and.


David Horsager: The brand and his leadership, because of the way he did it, so I think the big big takeaways years how we do it matters in how we keep or build trust in the midst of change change is going to keep happening.


Horst Schulze: Or, in difficult circumstances, what is strange to understand people, all of a sudden change their vision and their values.


Horst Schulze: If you don’t means they never, never really existed many months in a cannot change, no matter what the situation is if, in the case of capella we be said, we will be defined a service organization in the world.


Horst Schulze: In the case of wisconsin’s we said, our vision was we will be the finest and brand and pointless hotel company and abroad, well just because it is a crisis, I don’t change that objective and we said here’s our values.


Horst Schulze: With respect everybody, etc, etc, that change doesn’t change either So if I respect everybody all all investors guests and employees, I have to do what I do with total respect cyl installed total caring or I had no values, to start with.


David Horsager: You have you talked about this.


David Horsager: is interesting because it jumps to something that you called the most important speech and your your way of onboarding is very significant, as far as getting people bought in in fact.


David Horsager: You said something I want to see if I have it human beings cannot relate to orders and direction they relate and respond enthusiastically to motives and objectives and that kind of leads into your most important speech tell us about it.


Horst Schulze: yeah yeah well, the thing about it is you know.


Horst Schulze: People what what you want, from your employees in no matter what organization yeah part of what you want, for them is the right behavior the right audience to the right behavior but behavior cannot be taught after 16 years old.


Horst Schulze: Unless there is a significant emotional event when an alive in the first day of work is a significant emotional event and what do we do they arrive we let them fill out some papers.


Horst Schulze: And done that Minister Max is pathetic speech of being a team, we are a team beer whoa wait a minute, without giving an objective.


Horst Schulze: Because a family or family or your family.


Horst Schulze: yeah and.


Horst Schulze: What what is a team, a team is a group of people have a common objective and help each other to, but the objective, but we don’t give him the objective.


Horst Schulze: After all, they’re only here to fulfill a function that was the first mistake we should try them to become part of us.


Horst Schulze: And not just fulfill a function so employed come in and done and then after making our our speech, we said, the new way the bill work with Joe over here, he knows the ropes the rope speech, I mean.


Horst Schulze: So pathetic everything I mean you’re not enrolled business, so instead of telling them, the first day who you are showing me and what we do join me in the dreams and here is the dream that we have a i’m giving them purpose.


Horst Schulze: Because even even Aristotle said, people to do well in life need purpose and belonging, so why wouldn’t give it the first day, given the purpose tell them why tell him how our this our our purpose our dream of becoming known as the finest will benefit everybody in fact will define you.


Horst Schulze: You will the individual employee, and why not explain it all and and explain the first day align them to the sinking of our customer.


Horst Schulze: connected to the thinking and the being of the organization now they’re part of something rather than just fulfilling the function, I always said, David, the Chair, which is sitting is fulfilling a function but we’re dealing with human beings.


Horst Schulze: We have to recognize that we’re not anti terrorism anymore 200 years ago, or whatever.


David Horsager: I love it I love it well it’s time I want to honor your time you’ve been.


David Horsager: immensely generous.


David Horsager: But i’ve got a few kind of a lightning round here that we go rapid fire through, and then I want to leave you to say anything you really want to will get all the information here in the show notes on the book and where you can.


David Horsager: hear more about and learn from course schmaltzy need to lead.com you can find them on linkedin also but you’ll see all that at the show notes trusted leader show calm, here we go what’s your favorite book or resource right now.


Horst Schulze: Right now, I mean some favorite books for me a minute David I love to reach the think as of the world, the ones that make it different.


Horst Schulze: from Socrates to Plato Aristotle to come to everybody, the reason why I like I like to read them is i’m still trying to figure out.


Horst Schulze: Why, they were able to think different than society was thinking at that time at that time.


Horst Schulze: And, and particularly today i’m very concerned that people don’t think anymore people respond to influencers like TV or whatever, but they don’t think himself anymore and.


Horst Schulze: favorite book in business was always Stephen covey I think Stephen covey.


Horst Schulze: impacted me, and I think it was one of the best organizational thinkers in the last century so much drucker Peter drucker so Those are the things.


Horst Schulze: We would recommend to look at and and but, but how do we did I tried to read Arizona, where I learned how to think a little bit different say I just read again current.


Horst Schulze: philosopher, think about it, he lifetime, he was pondering morality.


Horst Schulze: I don’t think anybody today he thinks about it for two minutes.


David Horsager: I think you’re speaking my language, I used to be, I used to be a ethics professor in the class I most thought was philosophy of ethics that so con you know all these I think I think we have a huge problem today, I mean we’re jumping off the grill here but.


David Horsager: The whole the whole thing of morality and how can we get people to think differently, and not just one way part of that we just put in this we just put in that my brother much wiser than me the economist and.


David Horsager: You know CEO of some significant companies, what I love about him is he lives, way below his means in many ways, and gives and gives but he’s um it’s a interesting story, but he what he often says is.


David Horsager: You know we’re in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think.


Horst Schulze: So, so when does when we don’t think.


David Horsager: Right now we’re critical throw darts.


David Horsager: Literally sit in the basement and throw a social media dart here and then complain there but not exactly.


Horst Schulze: But that’s why i’m that’s why i’m pending and hope nobody misunderstand what i’m going to send out that’s why i’m in panic when I.


Horst Schulze: When we move to what socialism, because socialism doesn’t allow you to think if you look at all, all the Eastern bloc for 60 some years, not once you tell me one thought that came from there.


Horst Schulze: Because the only ones that benefit from socialism, is the political elite that arrest or not thinking anymore, they cannot think because everything is done by the government.


David Horsager: I think that the whole thing, but that that deceptive.


David Horsager: socials in depth deceptively puts the power in the elite and people think it spreads out.


Horst Schulze: You know, it is all in the prominence.


Horst Schulze: Only the political elite it’s not orange stable suffer after a while, simply because the money has to come from somebody.


David Horsager: Right wow there we go read the thinkers of the of the past and learned a thing, this is a takeaway for everybody, think about morality.


David Horsager: One one before we go one best piece of advice, and I do have two more questions for you, but one best piece of advice or quote.


Horst Schulze: it’s not really good I mean if I give you at this moment, and probably will give you advice in 10 minutes, but right now i’m thinking you know who are you again what is excellence excellence is never an accident it’s always the result of high intent and hard work.


Horst Schulze: Forgive me, be sure.


Horst Schulze: What whatever you’re undertaking and if it is 10 things today that you have high intent in what you’re doing and work hard to do it so and excellence, as I said in a thing, no matter what thing, no matter what saying if it works both which was created.


Horst Schulze: But excellence in a human being, that is amanda advice here is, if we do excellently your very best that means you’re not perfect in all the functions in your work function and do your very best in your relationship.


Horst Schulze: And do your very best moral morally now, I recommend that you try to continuously improve in those three areas and the way you do it and give a tip and even dude you will dramatically improve.


Horst Schulze: For instance, relationship, which is very important, after every interaction or after at least one a day in the action you have another human being, stop and say how could that on a better.


Horst Schulze: Ask yourself, maybe once once a month.


Horst Schulze: When you come home from work, how could I have done my work better.


Horst Schulze: question is morally, how we can do better not to me, but my dad is in and i’m not trying to sell any part of anything here to me, I have to add.


Horst Schulze: I have questioned myself how can I be spiritually better, but together now if you work on that your your your move yourself in a mode of continuous improvement as a human being and you should do the same thing that you’re with your organization continuous improvement.


Horst Schulze: Better.


David Horsager: How could we do better the quote of the day, at least, of the last three minutes, there are so many excellent excellence is never an accident.


David Horsager: or sheltie you have done many things we would say on stage and off as a public leader and with your family and in life as a generous giver what what’s what’s one thing left for you or one hope for the future you’re thinking about down the road.


Horst Schulze: Well that’s the next generation and I tried to impact the next generation through children to venture into others.


Horst Schulze: i’m i’m we are all when you come to a certain age you’re worried about an action right what is going to happen, but that is certainly to impact them in some way and teach and be available and so on, and and teach as much as I can i’m consulting work and i’m a mega them.


Horst Schulze: and point to truly teach and help success and and but but never forget never forget that that we are all here to serve our fellow men.


Horst Schulze: And if that comes into your mind in your business your with your business, maybe what you’re doing self Parliament you’re going to have a better business and, of course, you have better people around you it’s that simple, but for me it’s very much and for my wife to get that.


Horst Schulze: finishing developed by serving as much as possible than our next generation.


David Horsager: Well, one more question for you, before I do and just to honor your time and our great time together, of course, in the show notes trusted leader show.com you’ll see.


Horst Schulze: All the places and.


David Horsager: ways to connect with Mr schmaltzy you’ll see some of the tips and takeaways.


David Horsager: And i’m just want to recommend genuinely recommend the book excellence wins some some days I almost want to say it’s you know love wins it’s like you it’s excellence that really cares about others that’s the excellence you speak of in so many ways.


David Horsager: But Mr sheltie website Horst schmaltzy.com HR St.


David Horsager: For those listening just on the podcast although you can get all this everywhere else excellence wins, you can get that everywhere books are sold need to lead.com you can find some.


David Horsager: Important valuable content and be licensed in this way of thinking and applying the great work of Mr schmaltzy and, of course, you can find them on linkedin and other places, but I want to thank you it’s the trusted leader show who’s the Leader that you trust and why.


Horst Schulze: Well, I said look back that many right now in interesting now i’ve just looked at that, and in a moment, politically and that would be more Merkel in Germany and here’s my.


Horst Schulze: Steady not a fast decision they’ll serve it decisions not erratic now I wouldn’t vote for.


David Horsager: I would not vote so tell me about that.


Horst Schulze: Well, I think that should it should be much more aggressive progress ensure me issue, but you can trust it.


Horst Schulze: You can absolutely trust them and she comes and she comes she doesn’t change our mind if if every American leaders made with milk butter, because of the pipeline.


Horst Schulze: But she doesn’t change her mind she made the decision and that’s it or many, many, many other things she goes up the beauty, you can you can rely about and how inches big square progression and she goes out there.


Horst Schulze: And and telephone calls and zone, you can trust that she spends her values totally totally and that’s very, very aware of it, particularly.


Horst Schulze: Particularly in in and politicians.


David Horsager: What do we do in America.


David Horsager: what’s our way forward.


Horst Schulze: I mean it’s and, believe me, this exceptional country this exceptional the pinus piece of real estate in the world, the finest thinking in creating that piece of real estate into country.


Horst Schulze: We should really stop for a moment and in attacking each other, stop in review, who we were.


Horst Schulze: And then stop for a moment, where we really want to be, do we really want to be a loser country which we’re trying to somehow be.


Horst Schulze: Listen, if the recipe works if the recipe creates the finest meals that meal in the world don’t play around with it buddy because it may not be the finest anymore.


Horst Schulze: it’s amazing it’s amazing this country is absolutely amazing and to to play games with this is stunning, to me, I can only say I used to be.


David Horsager: well.


Horst Schulze: We could go on for it.


Horst Schulze: Give me.


Horst Schulze: Mad at me.


David Horsager: We can edit anything out but we don’t need to this has been fascinating and fabulous hey wake up and don’t be stupid that’s our final line because excellence excellence wins.


David Horsager: This has been delightful I want to say a huge, thank you, thank you for your time, thank you for all of those listening, thank you for being a trusted leader.


Horst Schulze: David I learned something and and and and podcasts that i’ve done some of my hang up and said she didn’t good one it’s always the host is the button, you are you i’m just purse blossom I was delighted to be with you.


David Horsager: Well, thank you.


David Horsager: This has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 19: Michelle Backes on Why Mentors MUST Also Be Mentored

In this episode, David sits down with Michelle Backes, Founder of The Savvy U, to discuss why it is so important that mentors are also getting mentored.

Michelle’s Bio:
Michelle Backes is the founder of The Savvy U, an organization designed to teach timeless truths that transform lives by taking a closer look at the Good Book, through adventures, keynotes, or biblical counseling. Michelle is also a Senior Certified Consultant at Trust Edge Leadership Institute, a WNBA chaplain of the Minnesota Lynx, and a passionate leader, educator and mentor to many.

Michelle’s Links:
Website: https://thesavvyu.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheSavvyU.michellebackes
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesavvyumichellebackes/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbackes146/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheSavvyU

Key Quotes:
1. “Throw it on the ground.”
2. “Its a lot easier to deal with disappointment than just mad.”
3. “Winning covers a multitude of things.”
4. “If you don’t have joy and laughter in your life, you’re not going to win a championship.”
5. “There’s a preparedness that champions have.”
6. “A great mentor is also being mentored.”
7. “Communication of expectations is huge.”
8. “Get a tribe.”
9. “The feelings that sometimes aren’t expressed get driven down.”
10. “Match emotion with emotion and fact with fact.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“People Fuel” by John Townsend: https://amzn.to/2PavWF0
“Dream Big” by Bob Goff: https://amzn.to/3txOr5a
“Love Does” by Bob Goff: https://amzn.to/3r37uTt

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a special guest she is a friend she’s the founder of savvy you she’s also been.


David Horsager: A senior consultant for us that trust edge and the trust as leadership institute she’s amazing she is a wnba champ.


David Horsager: And she’s been that for over 22 years with the Minnesota lynx she’s a passionate leader she’s a mentor of many please welcome my friend, Michelle Backus thanks for being here.


Michelle Backes: thanks for having me David i’m excited it isn’t you.


David Horsager: Oh, this is gonna be great i’m so excited to hear what you’re doing these days, and I know you still been doing some things for us but tell us about savvy you you’re you’re jumping right in actually before that just tell us something about you.


Michelle Backes: about me well, I am an empty nester I guess that’s, the first thing that came to mind so both my kids are off in college right now so we’re on a my husband RON and I are on the great reset we’re calling it.


David Horsager: wow and what have you done what’s something you’ve done to reset.


Michelle Backes: Oh man we’ve done everything from blood panels health wise to new routines around the House and we just had a lot of fun planning some patients we’ve been doing some adventures did a knee surgery in there for RON.


David Horsager: RON is a what was a former while he’s he’s quite an athlete but, as a former Olympian shot put her too and you’ve both were and are athletes and you’ve created athletes it’s quite a quite a quite a journey you’ve been on and in many different ways, but.


David Horsager: let’s let’s jump in here because I want to hear about savvy you that’s a that’s a new.


David Horsager: Really passion for you about transforming lives and people in fact you just had a you’re telling me about an event, you had this weekend, so I want to hear about that tell us about savvy what’s what’s the what’s behind that.


Michelle Backes: Well, I have this wonderful position with the trust edge leadership institute that.


Michelle Backes: was affected by coven as far as flying around and sharing this message and for you as well, and so during this time I saw an opportunity, just to put together some of the things I was also doing on the side with.


Michelle Backes: helping people be the best savvy savvy in Latin se ve y means to be wise and I have a couple decades now, you get older know he started chungking things in decades under my belt of.


Michelle Backes: Doing chaplain work and studying the Bible and applying it in practical ways to one’s life my life, and I just kept getting some calls and people hey do you have a card didn’t have a car, do you have a website nope so I put that together during this time and.


Michelle Backes: i’m really excited we had a event, this weekend actually took five professional women they took Friday off work and we had a savvy you adventure and it was fantastic went up North we went outside, even though it was 15 below.


Michelle Backes: That it oh shoot and.


David Horsager: And everything else right.


Michelle Backes: yeah mountain bike the place where we stayed had some fat tire fat bikes and it was a it was great so we we body stretched you know and and exercise, and we also soul stretched and so savvy you is a safe place to.


Michelle Backes: share and work on your heart.


Michelle Backes: yeah we’re doing and look at leadership from a from a biblical perspective.


David Horsager: You know, you also you also said some creative stuff in there, like you stopped in an art studio right, you are, that was a part of it, what and that you said, people came alive before that we were talking about people came alive with that I think that’s so.


David Horsager: That that creativity that almost inner child I you know i’m working with sometimes some of the toughest edge leaders in the world, in some ways it’s like.


David Horsager: You give them a space to like be creative and almost you know change it up a little bit where they can take their Armor off and they come alive, but tell me what did you guys do that way.


Michelle Backes: So it was kind of opening a new one woman, I didn’t know any of these other women.


Michelle Backes: And again, like I said all leaders strong very intelligent women kind of probably curious what are, what are we going what’s the savvy you and so that was our first stop, and it was at Pam Anderson she’s in town up here in lindstrom and we did a.


Michelle Backes: project with coasters and alcohol Inc but not like tattoo and alcohol, it was actually it’s a it’s a neat medium and.


Michelle Backes: If you mess up on these tiles you could throw it, you know, take the paper towel and wipe it off and throw it down on the ground, and that was the first thing that we started doing and then Pam they’re like where should we put these and Pam goes oh.


Michelle Backes: just throw it on the ground and it became this playful like when in our life, do we ever just.


David Horsager: throws on.


Michelle Backes: The ground and I tell you what that’s gonna be something in leadership even that i’m going to share like in metaphorically throw it on the ground.


Michelle Backes: Like we I always want to make sure the dishes are in bed, you know don at night and just we can get so driven and type A like.


Michelle Backes: Strong on the ground and by the end we were laughing just because it was fun even throughout the weekend at this cabin were like just throw it on the ground will get it later.


Michelle Backes: yeah we freaking.


David Horsager: love it.


Michelle Backes: yeah so that was when I was a fun playful creative play is so important.


David Horsager: Because the.


Michelle Backes: programming of all of us, took the edge off.


David Horsager: Well you’re an expert for us on the learning front and we’ve appreciated the transformative work you’ve done in many and even helping us be better and better and better here at trusted leadership Institute, but you talk a lot about the heart of leadership what what’s that mean.


Michelle Backes: You know that’s actually something i’ve incorporated into the savvy you and I know I keep pushing you at the trust edge like.


Michelle Backes: hey but what about people that are these leaders are freaking out with anxiety and they’re not sleeping and they’re not throwing stuff on the ground, once in a while and.


Michelle Backes: Two things on that that have been significant to me with the heart really quickly, I have a brother in law that.


Michelle Backes: I have there’s five brother in law’s and they’re all my husband’s a big guy and they’re all big strong eagle scout kind of guys and one two of them were in Hawaii snorkeling a couple years ago and.


Michelle Backes: There they were out pretty far and they the one brothers like i’m having a hard time breathing and he’s very athletic played college football.


Michelle Backes: And you for sure, because they’re conscientious eagle scouts you don’t stand on a coral reef that’s just like a you don’t do it.


Michelle Backes: And the one brother who was in the navy Academy, you know say you got to stand here so by long story short, he when he got home to the.


Michelle Backes: 48 mainland he went to a doctor appointment and had to get some things checked out and they looked at his heart and he said to the doctor what is that underneath my heart.


Michelle Backes: And he goes no the thing above was his heart he had an aneurysm that was 9.6 centimeters wide your aunt your aorta is about two centimeters.


Michelle Backes: All that to say the back offices and all the boys, especially all the cousins.


Michelle Backes: And nieces and nephews everybody had to get their heart checked another brother had to have open so to have metal open heart surgery because of this, and we also have a neighbor a couple doors down that he had was.


Michelle Backes: needed a heart transplant us on list for a long time, and he finally got a heart transplant in me, I mean he had the elven BAT vest and everything you think I all this attention we put on the heart medically yeah do we do it in leadership.


Michelle Backes: Do we talk about it, we have in, and so, even when RON my husband works with a lot of coaches and doesn’t matter if it’s high school coaches or divisional and coaches.


Michelle Backes: When he was kind of going through some of this heart stuff he was talking to them about anxiety and sleep and they’re like I don’t sleep.


Michelle Backes: yeah my heart pounds and you start kind of getting under the hood of leaders, and I think there’s a veneer that we need to be careful about ignoring me.


Michelle Backes: When I talking about the heart of leadership, I want to look under there.


Michelle Backes: And on the savvy you whether it’s individual or a group retreat me it’s not all just group settings In fact I got an email yesterday.


Michelle Backes: which was I just went oh just what it says it says, I am interested in a soul here, Michelle I am interested in a solo adventure.


Michelle Backes: preferably a malt ID i’ve been struggling with my faith for quite some time now and i’m having trouble finding my way back let’s go in her courage and her humility mean when do we do that.


David Horsager: hmm.


Michelle Backes: You know, and one of the tools this I know there’s a trusted leaders show, and one of the tools that.


Michelle Backes: i’ve incorporated in I didn’t make this up, you can find it out there on the Internet i’m sure, but it works great for marriage works great for individuals works great with your kids is called phantom have you heard of it.


David Horsager: I haven’t.


Michelle Backes: FA n O s it’s a Greek word and it means to shed light into and so.


Michelle Backes: we’re getting personal here now we’re on i’ll do this round i’ll do this before we we go to bed and.


Michelle Backes: we’ll just run through funnels we set it up where one person goes through it and the other person just receives.


Michelle Backes: You don’t say anything you have you know you’re not going to be interrupted but it’s just a way to kind of clear out the arteries, if you will.


Michelle Backes: And so F any you try to keep it brief F is for feelings identify and share a feeling.


Michelle Backes: And we do this in the savvy you to eat because, how do you feel I don’t know well there’s eight primary emotions.


Michelle Backes: But you can there’s wheels out there, that you can Google that we use to identify what if i’m just so mad or what are you, and if you spend it on you find out i’m really disappointed.


Michelle Backes: it’s a lot easier to deal with disappointment than just mad, and I think that’s part of the heart work so feelings, the F for fantasy is feeling identify a word to how you’re feeling and it’s not about.


Michelle Backes: us in our relationship, it could be, and I feel relieved I just finished, a big project or whatever so it’s not always interpersonal either.


Michelle Backes: You could do this at work, you know what’s a feeling, you have, knowing that people are going to contain you.


Michelle Backes: that’s a that’s a big word to is containment so fsu feel as for a firm given affirmation to each other, all we need that.


Michelle Backes: That helps clear out the heart arteries, if you will, and is identify a need and again it’s not necessarily from the other person I need to finish my New Zealand travel book for my mom.


Michelle Backes: i’m not gonna tell you what year we went to New Zealand right but I need to finish that so that’s a neat it could be, I need you know.


Michelle Backes: You to notice that the meals have been on the table last three days in a row, and three for three and it’s an empty nest.


Michelle Backes: So feeling it’s your F is for a firm Ennis for a need identify a need all is for ownership and we’ve racked it ratcheted up.


Michelle Backes: This year is an empty nesters part of this great reset as extreme ownership oh man.


Michelle Backes: But a leader owns it we you, you know you’ve mentioned that and and spoken on that and some of your things don’t leaders lead by sharing mistakes.


Michelle Backes: and be involved, you know transparent with that so extreme ownership for something again it doesn’t have to be interpersonal it can be something that happened at work or whatever, and then the the S can be a success.


Michelle Backes: to celebrate, because we need to do that, especially now and that’s good for the heart to have someone celebrate and have a safe place where you can go hey I Iraq this.


Michelle Backes: You know paper that I had to rating for school or whatever, or it can be for sobriety and i’m it that can be something if you know hey i’m trying to lay off.


Michelle Backes: Chocolate comes to mind after valentine’s day or i’m trying to you know lay off something else um and how well we did you can kind of have an accountability piece with that so that’s really good for the heart.


Michelle Backes: Number One way of checking on on a heart of a leader.


Michelle Backes: I I want people not even I want I guess for myself and my desire for leaders is that they lay their head on the pillow and can sleep.


Michelle Backes: and feel good.


David Horsager: I see it all the time yep you know I remember, working with one leader that’s like you know said privately to me and he’s a hard edge.


David Horsager: Top of a massive organization everybody listening would know and he said to me privately one thing he said was he put his hand on my shoulder one time and said I trust you know it’s like getting a French kiss I mean the guy just doesn’t.


David Horsager: mean that.


David Horsager: Like you know, he was just like he but he said, you know it’s kind of that imposter syndrome, where you just said, I wake up every day with a pit in my stomach with the weight of this.


David Horsager: company and the problems, and all this on me every single day, and I think you know.


David Horsager: We talked about a lot if your if your source of strength is only in your work you’re worse at work you’re not doing as well at work right so.


David Horsager: that’s that’s awesome so the savvy you this place to become wiser it’s I love the experiential learning.


David Horsager: piece of it, I love the throw it on the ground and now we’ve got an idea and fan oh sweet, we might come around to some other ideas but let’s talk about some other things for a minute.


David Horsager: You know you’ve been part of the w nba for a long time you’ve had me and then i’ve gotten to speak there and it’s been kind of fun, but you’ve seen some great championship what’s that.


Michelle Backes: it’s only been kind of fun.


David Horsager: it’s been really fun.


yeah.


David Horsager: Actually, that championship.


David Horsager: That was that was amazing my whole family got to be there for that and wow that was an unbelievable.


David Horsager: But um you know you see the the the the the Minnesota lynx they have the most tied with the most championships and web history.


David Horsager: You see, the other winners, I mean your your husband Olympian both of you athletes and former athletes and your your.


David Horsager: You know kids as athletes, and all this you’ve seen championship teams and I just think kind of thing you know from a little bit away to here.


David Horsager: Then you’ve mentored a whole lot of leaders and coached a whole lot of leaders so let’s first what what seems to be there when the team when it’s a championship team what’s what’s common to that, what do you see.


Michelle Backes: Well, from surface you see camaraderie winning covers a multitude of things, by the way.


Michelle Backes: yeah you see joy in the game you don’t see selfishness you don’t care, who gets the bucket and whoever does get the bucket you see love and.


Michelle Backes: And a lot of laughter and if your heart, whether you’re a basketball player or a leader, a mom moms and dads are leaders, so our freshman in high school leaders.


Michelle Backes: But if you don’t have joy and laughter in your life.


Michelle Backes: you’re not going to win a championship or on your team, so I see the laughter I see the camaraderie the humor and.


Michelle Backes: A light a lightness and they don’t take themselves too seriously because they become one and I behind the scenes, especially with coach Shell reeves a I know she is very, very prepared and so there’s a preparedness that that champions have.


David Horsager: love it.


Michelle Backes: mm hmm.


David Horsager: You you know you’ve done a lot of mentoring and coaching even on the side and leadership in life, what what.


David Horsager: I would like to jump into that even a little what makes a great mentor of your a lot of people there’s a lot of mentorship programs in companies and you see some fall flat what what makes a great mentor or even a great mentor relationship or Program.


Michelle Backes: You know, I guess, the first thing that comes to mind on that is a great mentor is also being mentored.


Michelle Backes: Maybe Chapel on the big four I had mount rushmore up there and.


Michelle Backes: talked about you need to have these big for in your life, whether your mentor or mentee or a leader in general and.


Michelle Backes: Coming from a Chapel and perspective I call it who’s your Paul who someone teaching you who is your Timothy someone that you are pouring into who is your barnabas and barnabas is a biblical.


Michelle Backes: Is the storage biblical person that was an encourager too many you need to have that and then, who is your Nathan and Nathan, is the one that went to King David and confronted him on a little issue that he had.


Michelle Backes: Right now Samuel swap us.


David Horsager: So you’ve got your encourage your your confronting.


Michelle Backes: Your confront your yeah.


David Horsager: Your your come alongside your kind of your peer and you’re wise.


Michelle Backes: When you’re pulling into yeah.


David Horsager: yep yep okay those.


Are.


David Horsager: The four.


Michelle Backes: So I think that’s that’s a huge part of mentorship it’s not just one way and there’s some humility that comes with that too, so when i’m working with someone I mentoring.


Michelle Backes: i’m saying hey I just learned that three months ago from the person I am you know and i’m 30 years older than you this is great for you get this and you know, working with the girl at Notre Dame Oh, I wish I would have this in college.


David Horsager: You know, I see a lot of.


David Horsager: Some people make it too hard and they’re like it’s this is gonna be a program you got to commit to 50 times a month, they don’t do this to get to that, I mean that’s a little exaggeration, but it’s like.


David Horsager: It becomes so hard that people don’t last they meet once they do this they do howdy and I can say you know i’ve been mentored by one meeting you know for sure, but I think some of these.


David Horsager: More lasting relationships there’s some value to that too, but how do you how do you set it up for success, I guess.


Michelle Backes: You know I think communication of expectations is huge.


Michelle Backes: I can’t make myself someone’s mentor per se and I don’t like it if i’m become someone has made me their mentee, so I think you need to communicate hey what’s your.


Michelle Backes: once every two weeks, you know what, what do you, what are your expectations, you have to be fluid and.


Michelle Backes: In my perspective, as the as if i’m in the role of a mentor they they guide the time schedule.


David Horsager: you’ve seen some leaders you’ve mentored some even that or are champions or TEAM members that have fallen off the cliff they failed miserably and even publicly what what are some of the traps of these leaders, what would you, you know if you had it.


David Horsager: If you could have told them something ahead of time or, if you could have if you’re going to tell our leaders trust the leads, how are you going to stay trusted like how are you going to keep from.


David Horsager: You know, falling off the cliff.


Michelle Backes: get a tribe.


Michelle Backes: get some or one person that you can be yourself that you can take off your shoes and go i’m a mess, right now, and I know I just posted something on instagram.


Michelle Backes: 40 minutes ago, and I was super high and this but inside and make someone who can, I think the ones who fall off the cliff they have a bigger chasm between their reality and who they really are and so, if you need to come with me and Pam.


Michelle Backes: Dirty paper towels on the floor and just let it let it loose the facade and social media, I think, is the trap, to answer your question I think that’s a.


Michelle Backes: You know, we take ourselves way too serious sometimes.


David Horsager: You know, we watched you go through speaking of that meeting a tribe, and we all do we talked about here, you know the the great leaders ask for seek feedback right they seek healthy accountability and.


David Horsager: Creating creating healthy accountability is significant, but you’ve gone through some challenges I you know I.


David Horsager: It was i’m going to pick one for you.


Because.


David Horsager: So I mean your daughter she’s a recruit at many significant schools to play ball she.


David Horsager: You know she gets recruited by a big 10 school and scholarship, and all this and she basically never plays a day and it’s a couple year process and surgeries and kind of she she’s become this she’s this amazing basketball Star and it’s kind of all taken away.


David Horsager: Well, what did you how did you coach them, because this is different, this is personal right, this is, we got a lot of people, we talked to here that are CEOs and are.


David Horsager: You know leaders have actually pro sports things you’ve had on or you know huge massive followings whatever but everybody this this gets, how do we be a trusted leader, then, how do we do it at home.


David Horsager: yeah, how do we do it when it’s really challenging on us and hurts us.


Michelle Backes: Right yeah it’s firing on all cylinders you grieve many times i’m like I wish it was my need.


Michelle Backes: You know I wish it could be me she had five surgeries and her last game that she ever played in ended in the i’m going to keep it.


Michelle Backes: above water here and in a standing ovation by everybody in the whole gym how cool is that to because she loved the game, and she played it well, if I can honor my daughter.


Michelle Backes: In that respect, and then to go from rehabbing to every letter of the you know the prescriptive PT plan and not it not work.


Michelle Backes: And so it was hard and I, at times, I just was at a conference RON and I were at and we heard something within in this realm that I didn’t always do well, because after the third surgery.


Michelle Backes: You get how bad is it that you get good at surgeries you know, but the feelings is sometimes that our art.


Michelle Backes: You know if any aren’t expressed get driven down and getting driven down, but in this conference, they said, if you want any communication tip he said match emotion with emotion and fact with fact.


Michelle Backes: So, how did that go with the Bacchus house there’s all there’s a lot of emotions we’re all passionate people and sometimes because I didn’t even want to tap into my emotions for there’s a I would answer with fact I mean not.


Michelle Backes: mean like oh i’m so sorry but you got to give up basketball someday look at me i’m not playing you know but that’s not what she wanted to hear.


Michelle Backes: Again and again, and she knew it and she just needed me to sit in the well with her, so how did that go it’s tough and it’s you know it’s it’s hard but.


Michelle Backes: You have to communicate through it hardship so she’s an amazing woman and I we don’t know the end of the story, yet, but she’s going to speech pathology and communication disorders and.


Michelle Backes: i’m she can identify with the struggles that these young and old people that she’s going to work with she’s gonna have a depth of compassion so anyway, how do we your question was what it gets caught in an emotion David you went there you went to.


David Horsager: i’m just asking you know how do you how do you lead through that I mean in essence you’re leaving your daughter through something even.


David Horsager: There was a long period of time where you’re kind of leading her even though you’re serving and listening and you.


David Horsager: You spoke to it by just sitting with her, but you know she’s her own she’s an adult she was a college student.


David Horsager: But you’re but you’re you know, through a time of life when she has to make a decision, and it was like.


David Horsager: An over and over and over was i’m going to take this and then i’m going to go back and then I know i’m gonna go back next year and then i’ll play one game, or whatever I it just doesn’t work out doesn’t heal yeah.


David Horsager: um but any words of advice on you know leading others through tough times walking with them how how did you do it.


Michelle Backes: You know I think it’s.


David Horsager: Or how would you do differently.


Michelle Backes: I would, I just think it’s really important and i’ve often wondered, even in the counseling and working with some of these women in the w nba that have.


Michelle Backes: Major.


Michelle Backes: issues, I have not had a relative get shot.


Michelle Backes: Or, I have not experienced some of these things that many people have do I have to experience that to be able to you know, help them and lead them through adversity was knee surgery or whatever, and I also have heard a great definition of empathy and sympathy so as a leader in.


Michelle Backes: be aware of where you are in reference to the well and if there’s a while and someone’s don’t in it, and these surgeries kept bringing Carmen own into the well.


Michelle Backes: If you will physically and emotionally where you are you at the top saying oh it’s too bad and then there’s times, where we send sympathy here’s a sandwich, but if you if you want to connect depend on your relationship with that with that person get in the well with them.


Michelle Backes: We play a game that we made up in our House just called shoes, if you know when the kids were younger they were trying having a hard time understanding a perspective on something I said, shoes, and we would go okay What would it be like.


Michelle Backes: To be there, how cold go through our senses, you know, would it be called there was it, what do you think they felt and it, I think that level and depth of empathy is huge would go into well.


Michelle Backes: Go on the wall just sit with them and be okay with silence.


David Horsager: that’s awesome, this is a good, this is a.


David Horsager: You know, shoes, what if our one of our world would that would have our What if our.


David Horsager: Government would do that what if we just say pause for a second hey let me get in your shoes for real, let me, let me be in the shoes of the person is, you have the constituents, you have the you know.


David Horsager: What if in business, we could really get in the shoes of our employees and and you know what if we could get really getting the shoes of that person across the table negotiating with me.


David Horsager: I love that great mentors are mentored get in the well with the with others and shoes, what is it really feel like to be in your shoes love it.


David Horsager: So great leaders tend to have good habits on a regular basis, and I know you have some, but how do you how do you Kate you know.


David Horsager: it’s really hard to lead others if we’re not leading ourselves to some degree, even in perfectly as we try to what are some of the habits of Michelle Bacchus oh boy.


Michelle Backes: Well, I think, especially in this great reset, we are not driving the Games, you know we I just all of a sudden 50% of our household.


Michelle Backes: and habits and routines have been changed, so one of the things that RON and I did we have a we kind of set our morning routine and that that sets us so speaking very freely for me I.


Michelle Backes: I don’t let my feet hit the ground until i’ve said a praise to my creator and.


Michelle Backes: that’s a Sarah girls Minnesota artists, is a friend of ours RON worked with her and she taught at rules month and she has a song about that me the first time that a seeing be a priest my God and came so I start with that that’s I have it and effect doesn’t just.


Michelle Backes: start the day on the right or left foot depending with lancers and then, and then I have, I do a quiet time I do reading a reading.


Michelle Backes: From my from my Bible, and another book if i’m if i’m got another thing going, and then I do my exercise, so I get my clothes my workout clothes on right away i’m.


Michelle Backes: Keeping it real.


Michelle Backes: I am in my workout clothes, sometimes at three o’clock and I won’t make my can’t change until I do it because, so if I have a podcast this morning.


David Horsager: yeah tell me this you know we’re all getting different ideas here, you know me i’ve lost.


David Horsager: One point lost 50 pounds or so, in five months and but it’s a work its work every day for me still 10 years later, it is work every day for me.


David Horsager: To seek to be physically healthy and I love the spiritual and other piece of health to marital health all that relational health all these things are critical and i’m passionate about, but what is a routine for you exercise wise what is something that’s a common way that you stay fit.


Michelle Backes: I am I just finished yesterday, the I did i’m doing beachbody I did a beachbody routine say did the 100 day I just finished 100 yesterday.


Michelle Backes: So I was awesome because then I don’t have to think about is it upper body lower body or running so.


Michelle Backes: I did two miles on the treadmill and I did day 100 and they’re anywhere from 27 to 32 minutes, except for day 100 which I have an allotted for was 53 minutes and i’m just going to keep it real as like no.


Michelle Backes: plan on a few 50 so.


David Horsager: what’s next.


Michelle Backes: That helps that helps.


Michelle Backes: Right I just I just ran on the treadmill today and that’s not my thing to figure out.


David Horsager: Now you gotta figure out your next.


David Horsager: row I.


Michelle Backes: love it, I do have a subscription to this beachbody platform and he has 115 other options.


Michelle Backes: sure.


David Horsager: So here you go.


David Horsager: What you got I think the biggest thing actually is not very often what you do it’s finding something that you will do it’s like what is it you will do tomorrow, every day, what what will you do consistently right yeah that’s that’s a big challenge for for many so.


David Horsager: What are you learning these days about leadership.


Michelle Backes: Oh man I just I love learning I.


Michelle Backes: Currently i’m in a leadership group a tip tones in leadership program for one year, once a month, a group of us get together and it’s focused on the book people fuel.


Michelle Backes: By john Townsend and it talks about what kind of fruit, do we want you know if you have a tree and what kind of fruit, do you want, in your life looks at the core and the the thing i’m learning right now about leadership is in the soil, he has a term that he talks about 22 nutrients.


Michelle Backes: That all.


Michelle Backes: All need, and you can have vision, and you can have drive and if you don’t have some people skills or aren’t receiving and contributing nutrients you’re not going to have the fruit on the top of the tree so that’s what i’m learning right now about the nutrients and.


Michelle Backes: And so being empty nest i’m not sharing this with carbon and Bo i’m talking with RON so poor guy is getting all the stuff but even.


Michelle Backes: Like I mentioned earlier containment is a great word just one of the nutrients, so I I was part of another leadership thing that I was.


Michelle Backes: A model that I wanted to process with ronnie said okay let’s try this out of quadrants one or you know.


Michelle Backes: Can you just contain I mean it sounds so wrote but we’re trying to part of my homework is to understand these words, would you just can teen this topic, you know not fix not suggest another you know give advice and.


Michelle Backes: he’s like sure, so I go through this whole thing and i’m wrestling with this and they i’d like to see it this way, and so, by the end and he got into it too is like you know you should really call that that that up, it was like we kind of laugh but that’s not containing.


Michelle Backes: So I mean I didn’t again we’re learning this, but he would have been I I tried to share, and you know, a need and it’s how often do we do that in leadership.


David Horsager: So true.


Michelle Backes: So that’s something i’m working on.


David Horsager: There is lots here containment winning covers a multitude of sins, I like that one that’s so true on teams great mentors are mentored.


David Horsager: And a whole lot more the shoes I love it hey it’s time for the lightning round quick answers to questions you’re ready for this like playing lightning and basketball here we go a favorite book or resource right now.


Michelle Backes: um well people feel I mentioned, I know before I got going on savvy you, I am a Bob golf fan, and I read dream big and.


Michelle Backes: it’s a late read but it’s a good one.


Michelle Backes: And finally, after out loud.


David Horsager: You know I just remembered because I love it, you know we read his first love does, we read that as a family in the evenings what fun right.


David Horsager: And I didn’t remember we’re going to ask another question you’ve been an amazing partner and consultant senior consultant for trusted leadership institute you’ve had some experiences here you’ve been.


David Horsager: joined us in the passion of this work, but a couple highlights or impactors or transformations or insights that you see to this eight pillar framework eight pillars of trust in the work we’re trying to do here.


Michelle Backes: You know, actually David i’m glad you brought that up because one up probably a high and it’s also an adventure That was my first international trip and I went to Bermuda.


Michelle Backes: And we, I did four days over there and it wasn’t just doing a keynote or a training session then you’re gone, we were living with them, and my mom my mom actually came as as well and she’s a trusted leader and in her own right and so.


David Horsager: Just to be clear was first it was first international trip through trust edge.


David Horsager: Through us yeah for us yep.


Michelle Backes: yeah yeah.


David Horsager: first time we first time we sent overseas.


Michelle Backes: first time you sent me, obviously.


David Horsager: yeah love it.


Michelle Backes: was a great first place um but what I was amazed at how this framework different culture and island, all the same it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter this this.


Michelle Backes: These eight pillars work for men and women, young and old w nba teams, or the university at Bermuda in their leadership and because it was it in more of an immersion you know, we had a.


Michelle Backes: meal, one of the nights it ended up in in tears kind of to this point of allowing people to talk about it and look at things.


Michelle Backes: And, and the screen where gave vocabulary to like a lot of haha yes, that is what we’re missing and they could identify in a X Ray kind of format what their issues were.


Michelle Backes: So that was a That was a highlight to see it.


Michelle Backes: implemented and people really gather around it and then put it into practice.


David Horsager: Right so fun and so funny to hear back from them of the impact we have some more we’re doing with them, even after code, but.


David Horsager: I also am reminded there’s there’s so many differently you’ve done business and you’ve done all these different but.


David Horsager: One of the groups, you with fire chiefs right or fire, you know fire across our whole state, you did kind of a trusted roadshow all these different fire chief groups anything from that and I didn’t ask you ahead of time i’m just wondering that was just a fun experience.


Michelle Backes: yeah talk about leaders and talk about courageous men and women.


Michelle Backes: And it was interesting because we were in five different spots all across this across the state.


Michelle Backes: And the importance of trust can help your relationship in a classroom or it can save a life.


Michelle Backes: and not to get too dramatic, but they are on the front lines and trust is important in basketball you won’t be on the floor if you don’t trust you.


Michelle Backes: it’s important everywhere, but it is also a the work that we do with the trust edge is is changing and saving lives it’s ready and you didn’t even.


David Horsager: There we go that.


Michelle Backes: Only 20 under the table leader.


David Horsager: There yo.


Michelle Backes: He seriously it so what I learned from them, but just the.


Michelle Backes: Again, they have the vocabulary and to have to learn the discipline and how important it is for them to be trusted.


Michelle Backes: yeah with each other.


David Horsager: fun that was it’s just been a fun relationship there to hear about all that still happening there and the common language and the tools and you really spearheaded that work on our behalf and i’m grateful for that.


David Horsager: So back to a little lightning round here best advice or quote these days.


Michelle Backes: best advice that I would share is and i’ve been really thinking about it is to have a little person in your life.


Michelle Backes: i’d go eight years and younger and if you don’t have one find one they’ll bring us right back I I remember what i’m going on a walk with in the fall and.


Michelle Backes: run into some neighborhoods we hadn’t seen that very much and we were talking to them and said Oh, is this your toy yeah but we can’t go over here on the lawn she said, because my dad just sanitize it she’s for instead of fertilized sanitize it.


Michelle Backes: Oh she’s trying to make sense or my niece.


Michelle Backes: We all face time because she’s doing the recorder so we’re all excited to listen to Ingrid do the recorder, and all of a sudden, she starts going like this, she played the recorder out of her right nostril I mean.


Michelle Backes: quickly forget about the challenge there so that would be my advice.


Michelle Backes: Get.


Michelle Backes: them young kids and throw some something down throw your not not a media dirty napkin on your floor per se, but for something on the floor relax and do some creative play boy that’s three.


Michelle Backes: Yes, I love it.


David Horsager: that’s it that’s free of charge appreciate that.


David Horsager: One thing left for you or one hope for the future.


Michelle Backes: One thing left for me personally professionally, can I ask a follow up question.


David Horsager: You can answer, however you’d like.


Michelle Backes: Okay i’ll go i’ll go back to habits i’ll go one thing that i’m working on, especially because, because when you do start a new venture, it can sprawl so.


Michelle Backes: narrow scope i’m working on having a hard stop time to my day without this emptiness beans I don’t have to have supper on at a certain time, or you know I I need to work, personally, I had, for me, is working on a hard stop time, so we can play.


David Horsager: You go every night every day now like know we’re running kids around to sports are going to university sports or whatever right so wow.


David Horsager: Well hey before I get.


David Horsager: what’s that.


Michelle Backes: Your time will come.


David Horsager: Oh, my.


Michelle Backes: I love everything I just it’s it’s a change.


Michelle Backes: So.


Michelle Backes: The things i’m working on in the future is that i’ve identified as having to stop time.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: wow this went fast, we have before we get to the final question where can people find out about Michelle Bacchus and savvy you.


Michelle Backes: hey come check out the thc savvy you letter u.com the savvy u.com.


David Horsager: This will be in the show notes, and you can see it at trusted leader show.com it’ll be all there and how to find Michelle backus Thank you so much for being on I got will have one more question for you it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.


Michelle Backes: Well there’s several not to do the family mom thing I trust my Mr we’re talking about the links, I really try would trust my and more she’s younger than me.


Michelle Backes: And that’s exciting to meet and older there’s young women out there, she left the game at the top of your game for things that she was pursuing.


Michelle Backes: And that were even bigger than basketball and she’s the real deal and it’s fun when you’re around people that are the real deal that walk your talk so I trust her that’s.


Michelle Backes: I learned her, especially when it comes to racial reconciliation and.


Michelle Backes: see that, so my Mr.


David Horsager: My Mr one of the many you could have named, thank you for that so you’ll find everything in the show notes, this has been a treat Michelle, thank you for the work you do for trusted leadership Institute.


David Horsager: i’m excited about the work you’re doing, and with this newish venture and adventure and savvy you, and thanks for being an example, the so many and mentoring so many for good i’m so grateful you’ve made us better and we just so grateful for you as a friend to so thank you.


Michelle Backes: Thank you, David, thank you for your leadership.


Michelle Backes: Thank you yeah.


David Horsager: you’ve been listening to the trusted leader show thanks so much until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 18: Joel Block on Why Recurring Revenue Is The Future Of Business

In this episode, David sits down with Joel Block, Futurist, Longtime Venture Capitalist, and Hedge Fund Manager, to discuss top trends businesses need to be paying attention to and why recurring revenue is the future of business.

Joel’s Bio:
Joel’s a futurist and longtime venture capitalist / hedge fund manager (gobbledygook for professional investor) who lives in a Shark Tank world like on TV. Since selling his publishing company to a Fortune 500, Joel’s cage-rattling keynotes expose Wall Street insights and the inside track on high-velocity innovation – empowering business executives and their teams to “Disrupt Their Competitors’ Future”.

Joel’s Links:
The Business Trend Report for 2021: http://bit.ly/Bullseye-Trend2021
Website: http://www.joelblock.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelblock
Facebook Personal: https://www.facebook.com/joelblock
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joelgblock/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/JoelBlock
YouTube: http://bit.ly/Joel-on-YouTube
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_G._Block

Key Quotes:
1. “The biggest thing is the fallout of the work-from-home phenomenon.”
2. “For professional investors, this is an opportunity.”
3. “Every one of these asset classes that’s distressed, is an opportunity.”
4. “Whenever there’s flux, for professional investors, there’s opportunity to go in and buy.”
5. “Everything that’s bad is an opportunity for somebody.”
6. “Subscription revenue is probably the most important phenomenon that companies need to pay attention to.”
7. “Every single company, needs to look at ways that they can convert and get themselves onto a recurring revenue basis.”
8. “But there’s got to be a big picture. People get out of bed every day because of the big picture.”
9. “It’s not just vision, its also about cause.”
10. “The best leaders are really really good at helping people understand that what they do every day matters.”
11. “The world has softened up a lot.”
12. “When it comes to money, everything is rigged.”
13. “Its critically important that companies reevaluate their business rules to make sure that they’re not egregious.”
14. “Consumers have a lot of power using social media.”
15. “Ultimately, regulation will always lose out to whatever the will of the people is.”
16. “People are specialists, they’re not generalists anymore.”
17. “Capital is not just money. Capital is any of the tools that a company uses.”
18. “Every kind of person needs to be treated with more respect.”
19. “Constant disruption is the new normal.”
20. “People need to be specialized.”
21. “Demonstrate that you care.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Zoom: https://zoom.us/
Otter.ai: https://otter.ai/login
Evernote: https://evernote.com/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager i’ve got a special guest today Joel block welcome to the show.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: David, how are you hey I see you today.


David Horsager: Yes, jealous jealous a good friend i’m doing great detail.


David Horsager: But Joel is, let me tell you a little bit about him a futurist long time venture capitalist hedge fund manager he lives kind of in a shark tank world.


David Horsager: Like on TV since selling his publishing company to a fortune 500 joel’s cage rattling keynotes expose Wall Street insights and the inside track and high velocity innovation.


David Horsager: He really tries to empower business executives and their teams to disrupt their competitors future, and you know he’s a brilliant guy I am so excited to have you maybe a couple more thoughts just on on who Joel block is and then we’re going to get into your trends.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, I started in the CPA world as a youngster Price Waterhouse I was not a soldier, it was not a fit for me if I didn’t quit i’d been fired for sure.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But I did I did work on a couple of accounts that really kind of got me all excited.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I was working on a big syndication company is a company that like raises money and goes and buys assets.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And I thought you know what I don’t want to do tax work, but I want to be a dealmaker like these guys and.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Sure enough, I left the firm and set up a little company with met another guy we raised the money bought a building raise more money by another building go, you know we just kept calling on guys, to give us money.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know sure enough over time we’d raise millions of dollars and the life after that was kind of winding down I raised $10 million and started a little media company.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: That I ended up selling to a fortune 500 so i’ve just constantly been kind of looking forward in time and on the leading edge and and now I do a lot of media and I make a lot of predictions and i’ve done pretty good.


David Horsager: But you sure have well let’s get into that your new report competing on capital 2021 29 trends for maximizing sales and optimizing profits in the next decade.


David Horsager: let’s take a look at this, you know you have a lot of experience, both being on boards vcs hedge fund, you know watching.


David Horsager: Information really being an advisor to many CEOs and leaders around the world, so i’m interested in I think others will be very interested in this report let’s take a look first of all, at just maybe a couple things that jumped out to you.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, do you want to talk about what I like or you know or you’re working.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: With you like them, and I ask a.


David Horsager: few things that I like, but I want to hear a few things that you.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Listen, you know we write this report for the for the clients of our firm for friends of our firm, like you, and then you can share with your friends, of course.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And so we just look at things that we think are going on, these are these a lot of these things are people on Wall Street are talking about and just bring them to.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: middle America, and because the largest companies get this kind of Intel but the the middle sized ones, typically do not so.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: To me, the biggest thing is really all the fallout from the work from home phenomenon, this is the biggest one of all and and you know what I see happening here.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Work from home is here to stay, now that doesn’t mean that everybody’s going to work from home every day but.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Probably 50% of the people are going to for some reason or another, end up being home, so there may be an A team to be team that come on on Tuesdays and Thursdays or Wednesdays and Fridays, or whatever they do, but a.


David Horsager: Great time great time to buy into office commercial space right.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: well.


David Horsager: not exactly and we’ll get to that.


David Horsager: end in minneapolis, by the way, as one trend.


David Horsager: I think normally downtown was 80 to 90% occupied and in January this year, I think I heard 16 one up 16% occupied.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, how about here’s here’s the thing.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: For professional investors, this is an opportunity.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: For non professional investors, maybe not so much, but for guys like me i’ve run a mastermind of all hedge fund managers I advise these guys and.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: tell them what kinds of assets, they should be buying and you know let’s look at the implications of work from home let’s say that it is 50% you know just for whatever reason.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: If 50% of the people are not going downtown to work let’s look at the implications on traffic, I mean you know I mean and then who wins and who loses I mean it’s pretty good consumers when on traffic because it’s.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: it’s awesome right less people on the freeway and i’m in Los Angeles, which is especially terrible and you know the roads are busy, and there it’s a long distance.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But what about the impact let’s say on gasoline I mean you know to me.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Demand on oil is going to be down demand on oil for airplanes is going to be down to over the next several years as people kind of adapt to a new.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: A new reality about using electronics for communication that doesn’t mean that there isn’t going to be movement, but it might be less, which means that there’s reduction in demand.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: What about governments, you know when when there’s less cars on the road sounds to me Left will be less speeding tickets less traffic tickets less parking tickets.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Less collection of tax on parking spaces in in urban areas and then we’ll look at real estate real estate, for example, when you.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: When you think about you know, a company taking needing only half the amount of space that’s what you’re talking about now the reason it’s 16% is because there was a flight from urban.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Which is just that that was kind of a short term thing but it’s going to go back to something around 50%.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I means restaurants, are going to be down by 50% It means that shoe shiners are going to be down by 50% there’s just there’s a lot of implications and as a venture capitalist as a professional investor.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: We do an analysis and we look at different segments, and what kinds of things that we want to bet on and that’s what I do is I placed bets you know.


David Horsager: What are the opportunities that you see right now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, you know listen there’s as far as opportunities to me every one of these asset classes this distressed.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: is an opportunity, because when you think about buy low sell high, this is a bylaw opportunity, not so much for residential real estate, for example, but let’s say for.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Commercial real estate buildings are going to be dropping in price, because occupancy is down there may need to be some conversion of space from commercial maybe into residential or something else.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Industrial spaces are down, because people are not going to use that space quite the same way, they used it before so there’s lots of things that are in flux and whenever there’s flux for professional investors.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: there’s opportunity to go in and buy and i’ll give you, for example, you know, even in the stock market there’s been a lot of adjustment.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: companies like dunkin donuts because all the migration and traffic patterns change with parents taking their kids to school or not taking them to school.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: What ends up happening is that they had to close 600 stores and they still were doing poorly and they ended up having to put themself up for sale and they got sold arby’s.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The cruise lines who’ve been closed for a year, those companies they’re burning $500 million, a month in cash, I mean how long can that continue so what ends up happening is that some large company probably a private equity outfit.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Which is kind of the world where I operate is going to end up going in and buying that company for a song and and that’s just what’s going to happen, so let me the shuffle.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: carnival these other companies are not going to go away, but they may not survive the same ownership so every everything that’s bad is an opportunity for somebody.


David Horsager: Good quote tell me about the fruit and just starting at that number one fruit eat fruit trees toppled treadmills.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know what this is the second most important one, so you pick you pick an excellent one and that’s why we put it as number one.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, it just you know the work from home as a brand new thing, but this is all about subscription revenue and subscription revenue is probably the most important phenomenon.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: That companies need to pay attention to and David I don’t know about you, but 10 years ago I didn’t have a single.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: charge recurring charge on my credit card, not even one and i’ve got about 50 of them you got hulu and netflix and we got business one so there’s just so many different things.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But here’s kind of the bottom line is I can imagine about 10 years ago Microsoft just just an example.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: going to Wall Street, and having a meeting and Wall Street says to Microsoft, of course I wasn’t there so i’m just speculating, but I can imagine this.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: That somebody on Wall Street says listen your your numbers are there, a little jumpy you know, then the revenues up and down, you know if you could kind of stabilize your revenues somehow.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: will give you a better multiple which increases the value of your stock increases the the overall value of your company and it’ll be good for everyone.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: So Microsoft Microsoft goes back and says well what business are we in well they used to be in the business of selling software, but they’re not in that business anymore.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Now they’ve moved into the business of renting software so here’s the here’s kind of the way it played out as they converted their office package.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: into what they call the office 365 and it took three or four years for it to catch on the almost nothing happened, for the first couple of years.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But by 13 1415 the thing starts to pick up some steam, and by 16 it just takes off, and it really their whole business has changed, ever since then and their stock price, for example.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: went from where the stock market let’s say in general and President trump took over was.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Whatever it was and went up say 40 or 50% in those four years Microsoft is up, five, six or 700% and that’s not a coincidence, because as their business stabilized.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: They did better and every single company needs to look at ways that they can convert and get themselves onto a recurring revenue basis, because if you want to sell your company your company will be worth more.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The the multiplier on ebitda or the multiplier on your stock value it’s bigger in a trend in a in a business that has recurring revenue, rather than transactional.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Because it’s more predictable it’s easier to understand, if you need to borrow money from a bank banks like it, I mean all the way around this is a really, really good way to go, and so you’re seeing companies convert to this.


David Horsager: So yeah absolutely and there’s some there’s some there’s some great you know I I research and look at the trust world right.


David Horsager: I don’t like having to pay subscriptions maybe but there’s some great things that happened with subscriptions as from us trust standpoint is.


David Horsager: you’ve got to keep delivering I gotta keep delivering to you i’ve got to keep providing value and making it worth it for you to pay me every month right so.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: yeah.


David Horsager: We got to keep that that there’s a value to kind of this this social contract trust where hey if you don’t keep delivering i’m not going to keep paying you know we got to keep in a bill can build a relationship right.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Listen there, there is there is some of that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know there there’s also some psychology where people kind of forget about these things, and they just let them go for a long time and that’s kind of a problem.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But you know if you just just to finish the Microsoft thing if you think you know back in the old days we’d buy the software, we go to the.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: store we’d buy the software for a couple hundred bucks and we keep it for five or 10 years now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: it’s 100 bucks a year and, and I pay them every single year, so over a 10 year period of time they probably make three or four or five times as much money as they made before.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And it just it’s better for them they’re getting a better multiple and it’s all showing up their stock price.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And they are delivering what I like about it is that I get their brand new updates whenever they come out so you know that’s I don’t have to feel terrible that I own a an old product that’s not got all the bells and whistles anymore so to your point.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know that’s I feel better about it.


David Horsager: It forces it, you often say vision drives leadership and it’s one of your trends, this year, and you often you’ve even said privately to me how momentum matters and vision drives momentum tell me about your thoughts on that and why that’s even a trend.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: This is one of the most important things you know companies are really realizing.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: That it’s not about mission it’s not about the job that you do every day, although that’s terribly important it’s very important that everybody does a good job they turn the bolts just right that they fill the machine just right that all those things work.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But there’s got to be a big picture people get out of bed every day because of the big picture.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Because they’re excited about something, and this ties a lot David into the work that you do.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Where you know companies, they just they have to do a good job with their people, they have to be honest, have to do all those kinds of good things, but they also have to we’ve kind of.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Vision for the company where employees say you know what that is awesome but there’s another component to it it’s not just vision it’s also about cause.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Our company has to do something that makes the world a better place, and when you have cause and vision.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you and you, you promote that using a mantra of some kind, and everybody in your company kind of gets the mantra, and these are simple things that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: they’re hard to put together but they’re simple concepts that ultimately needs to be communicated when everybody’s on board.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Number one you can tell who’s not on board right away, and you can fish those people right out number two.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: People just get out of bed excited every day that they’re doing something that matters.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: People want to know that their life matters, they want to know that what they’ve contributed matters and the best leaders are really, really good at helping people understand that what they do every day matters.


David Horsager: hmm I love it, this is the in how does this relate to the big uptick you know it’s not I was on the.


David Horsager: platform last year or last time it was live at National Association of corporate directors and there’s so much movement toward cause toward toward SG toward you know kind of this not just compassionate capitalism, but a different way of thinking, what are your thoughts on some of that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: yeah I think that’s that’s a little bit faddish I don’t think that that’s a long term trend when i’m talking about is not so much you know.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Corporate niceness you know which, which is important, I mean it’s because that falls into a different category with that we can examine for a second but to me.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: it’s i’m talking about the CEO and the leadership people getting the the team to be excited about what they do every day when they come into work.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I definitely think that the world has softened up a lot, and we are, we are absolutely softer and nicer than we were 50 years ago.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: we care about people more we need to care about people more it’s working the old way of being brutal and mean and rude and.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, you know kind of hard drivers is not working and and just the nature of our of our workforce has changed and that style is not a style that really works anymore, and so.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Although some of us kind of grew up with that style that style is going away with us, and so I.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I don’t think that the conscious capitalism thing is entirely you know going to stick around because I don’t think that it really works, all the way, in the long run, I think that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: There are certain principles of capitalism they’re important but on the other hand, I don’t think that you have to be so ruthless that you hurt other people along the way.


David Horsager: Why do you love capitalism.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, you listen it’s why I love the United States of America is because anybody can accomplish what they want, I can’t tell you how many people of color my firm serves that call me and they’ll say you know Joel.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: i’m having a hard time taking care of my family i’m having a hard time you know the company, where I am whatever whatever the problem is they’re having.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, can you show me how to do something and we help people set up funds and syndications and raise money, and you know some of these things.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Can you show me how to do that, so I could take better care of my family, I mean that’s capitalism.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: that’s a person taking a step out and saying you know what i’m having trouble doing it, you know the corporate way and and the corporate way is is you know it’s a couple of hundred years old.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I mean, one of the things that happened during this whole pandemic is that we recognize that some of our systems and institutions are hundreds of years old, the bail system which, which is under attack, right now, if you stop and think about it.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Listen to if a person can be let go on their own recognizance because they’re not dangerous, and then maybe let them go and if they’re too dangerous then don’t let them go.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But the ability to put up money, maybe isn’t the right measure of whether they should be let go or not and.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know I mean I get why because you want to kind of have a hook and i’m that they don’t run away, but you know they’re the way that we educate our children we line them up and rose and we educate them basically to be like soldiers to be workers in.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Factories that’s not what the world looks like anymore, so I don’t know that our education system is right anymore I just I worry that we’re not really on the right track and to me capitalism really helps to straight, a lot of these things out if we work it the right way.


David Horsager: and interesting that you said, the what you said about institutions, because you know in our in the.


David Horsager: In the global trust research basically institutional trust is down steeply so you take.


David Horsager: Trust in our governments since Watergate it’s tanked considerably to now where it’s you know you know from 80% used to be that people trusted the government to do what’s right it’s like seven or 9% now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well yeah it’s gonna be at an all time low now after after in the last couple months.


David Horsager: Well, all kinds of things, but, but other but big institutions are not as trusted except for.


David Horsager: Well, I just think like food like we want to know what’s grown right next door we don’t trust big food out there, maybe, or we don’t trust.


David Horsager: Education just brought up education, one of the trends, right now, from a trust perspective is big education is less trusted they want you know charter or private or homeschooling is taking a big ups uptick.


David Horsager: sure you know, same with churches, the same almost the same percentage of people believe in God, and yet the people, the percentage of people that actually go to a House of worship consistently or.


David Horsager: You know, give and those kind of things that’s down steeply so some of these big old institutions as you’d say they are taking a big hit and maybe, many of them for for good reason, but this is a.


David Horsager: Building over.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Listen, you know the Brits are dealing with this this whole problem right now with Prince Harry and megan you know spilling the guts on this whole thing this could be this could bring the whole monarchy down.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Because if if young people in Britain or anything like young people here in the United States of America.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: that’s an event that’s a cataclysmic event that could make them say this is a real anachronism it just doesn’t have any place in our society.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And I mean I look at it as an American and I wonder what what the deal is I mean I get all the pomp and circumstance, but you know that’s the kind of thing that could really take them down, and you know to me.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know the way that the future works, we don’t we don’t just slowly change our attitudes over time.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: It happens because there’s an event George floyd was an event that that rocked us in a big way and made us say.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: This has to stop this has to change, we cannot move forward the way that we are right now and we have to do things differently.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And that’s the way that everything is everything is focused on an event there have been so many events where people have seen companies act badly.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: religious institutions act badly where they don’t police themselves properly, where the lobbying and the money you know and and this all kind of falls into another category that I.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I call them business rules and it’s another trend, by the way, and one of the things that I talked about often is that when it comes to money.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: everything’s rigged absolutely everything is rigged now it doesn’t mean rigged in the illegal way.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know so nobody’s going to jail, but every single company has the right to write their own business rules and they can say hey listen here’s how we want to work with customers.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Some companies are very fair about that some companies are very egregious about how they write their rules now just to tell you I mean these rules exist in every area of our life.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And in a place like Las Vegas, we all know, it’s right, we all know that the House is supposed to win, and in fact it’s so common that we don’t even call it right, we just call it the House advantage.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, and we just go there, we go well, we know how it is, but we’re going to play and it’s gonna be fun and we know that those hotels weren’t built by winners.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Right.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: that’s actually but, but we do it anyway, but we don’t expect it when it comes to a bank or when it comes to you know, a food maker, or when it comes to a credit card or an insurance company, you know.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: We don’t really understand that those companies are making rules to suit them they’re not really designed to suit us.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And we all really have to educate ourselves about how these rules work, and I would say that, for the business listeners of this show.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: it’s critically important that companies reevaluate their business rules to make sure that they’re not egregious because, and this is why it’s a trend is because consumers have a lot of power, using social media.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And when they’re mad.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: They can cause a real firestorm and that’s embarrassing to companies and then companies retrench and then you know back down and do something different so.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: These are, these are some of the things that I notice, and hopefully are helpful to the listeners of the show.


David Horsager: I have so many questions for you, I you know I want to jump into something that I didn’t see as a specific trend on its own, then I want to get to some more a few more trends, if you have time, are you are you doing okay.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: No time no time constraint.


David Horsager: Okay well you know you talked about money so just jumped to bitcoin right now what’s what’s the what’s the trend there, what do you, what do you think.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, I think that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Fear caffeine, money which is dollar bills its Government issued money really is probably getting ready to go out, I mean it’s really kind of going out of fashion, I mean a better a better kind of money.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: is really necessary, but for a lot of reasons, the government doesn’t want that to happen it’s very difficult for the government to track and tax money.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The way that bitcoin moves between people, it just it’s almost impossible, the government is 20 or 30 years behind.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: In computers and technology, and all these kinds of things, and although it probably is better, you have this Ying and Yang this this kind of like fight between.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The government and the private sector, and you know, ultimately, the private sector will win.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But there are a lot of things that the government can do to put roadblocks in the way for 20 or 30 years to slow it down, ultimately, they will not win.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, ultimately regulation will always lose out to whatever the will of the people is but it might take some number of years before that comes to be.


hmm.


David Horsager: So let’s let’s take a jump here to to what I sighs number 10 in the trends and that was leaders are casting directors in a way haven’t they always been and what do you mean.


David Horsager: Well, that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: they’ve always they’ve always been but it’s getting more and more important and it’s getting more important because.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: People are specialists they’re not generalists anymore, and the more specialized a job becomes.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The more important it is to cast the right person into that job you don’t want to put a person who’s got a marketing personality into a selling job.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you will, and vice versa, the same you don’t want to put a selling person into a marketing job.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Because those people are not going to be optimized in their responsibility now that’s, not to say when a person is young.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: That you don’t want to give a young person, the opportunity to experience multiple different departments.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But by the time you’re 35 or 40 years old, you need to kind of pick a lane and start going down that lane and that’s how you make the most money that you can make.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And that’s how a company is benefited as well, and so great leaders pick people that exhibit the right kinds of skills for the right kind of responsibilities.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And they help them to kind of move in the right direction and that way they’re building up their team and the best way they’re doing the best thing for their for their team for their staff.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: they’re doing the best thing for their company and they’re doing the best thing for their balance sheet and remember that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: This report is called compete on capital capital is not just money capitalist any of the tools that a company uses it’s the intellectual capital, the human capital.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: it’s the invisible capital, the political capital social capital relational capital all the kinds of capital and this report.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, takes you know four or five trends from each of five or six different categories and examines it because.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Listen, a great golfer doesn’t play great golf just by bringing a driver and a putter I mean they bring a range of clubs and you have to know when the when you pull out the right club and that’s kind of the same thing with capital here is the great leaders know which.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Which kind of capital to lean on it, which in.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Time.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Now I happen to believe that money is the fuel it’s kind of the the main driver that makes it work but it’s not the only one every other One of those is critically important, so there are trends in here, for you know, most of the members of of any companies team.


David Horsager: Even for individuals and entrepreneurs, I see we’re gonna you know you’ll see at the show notes at trusted leader show.com.


David Horsager: you’ll see the the how you can go to bullseye capital, and you can get joel’s report, but another way to do it is you can text trend.


David Horsager: To 72000 just text trend to 72000 72,000 and you’ll get you can get the the.


David Horsager: This great competing on capital 2021 and it’s got a special report we’re going to get to at the end about social media because i’ve got a quick question about that.


David Horsager: Before we get there, you know you, you talked about different types of capital like relational and one of the trends is about engaging from the heart and I think we’ve seen.


David Horsager: People that haven’t had a heart did not make it to the pandemic and those that lead with empathy did tell me about it.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, listen, I think that as we talked about a few minutes ago, the world has gotten a little softer.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And it hasn’t gotten so soft that we all lay down and we don’t try to make money, I mean it’s i’m not saying that’s gone that far.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But you know, but the world is a softer nicer kinder place and and you know and people want to be treated with more respect all people every kind of person needs to be treated with more respect.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: we’re a society that in order for us to get along everybody has to be treated well it isn’t it’s not in any of our interest to keep anybody down or.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: penalize people because that’s just more burden for the rest of us to carry let’s get everybody to be.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, productive let’s get everybody to be happy in their life will have a better society and a better country as best as people can.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But you know that’s really the engagement, the heart concept is really let’s just slow down a minute and take a look and let’s help people to to just feel better about themselves do better be better, and I think all the way around that it’s an important thing.


Great.


David Horsager: You talk a lot about disruption and that’s what you’ve been a route about helping even disrupt competitors, for your clients when the 14 trend is all about disruption, what can you say about that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, constant disruption is a new normal is that just, we have to remember that the world is changing fast changing faster than it’s ever changed and it’s changing faster for a couple of reasons.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: In the old days you know, and when we were kids probably in the 60s 70s and 80s.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, if you want it to figure something out, you have to take out a piece of paper and a pencil.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you had to figure it out with with by hand and then we got calculators I remember it in the 70s in junior high school, we had calculators but now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know it’s not just a matter of just doing a little bit of math and you know computers are doing this at incredible rates of speed and now with artificial intelligence and all the other tools that exist.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Decisions in progress are moving at record pace, I mean nothing has ever happened like this before and so constantly.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Companies are under you know assault by competitors, and let me just tell you that every companies may not like to hear this, but.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Right now, there are a couple of kids sitting in the garage building a torpedo and they’re aiming it right at your company and if you’re not prepared for that.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know disaster could be on the horizon and people say oh yeah that’s just a couple kids not a big deal, you know it’s a couple kids until they get $20 million in venture capital.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And then they go back and they get their second round for 100 million and now all of a sudden their player and they can buy advertising and they can they have resources they’ve got the smartest people on the planet they’re helping them, you know, using.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: grown up in.


David Horsager: yeah exactly and how do you stay in front, how do you not be blockbuster and how does netflix really keep from being blockbuster right like how.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Do yeah.


David Horsager: So keep this innovative environment that that can stay ahead of that can stay competitive and it’s very few companies that have reinvented like an IBM that’s done it maybe 12 times and still here, and you know kind of this blue chip company and very few have done it how.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Though so let’s say you know another another great example beside IBM is at amp T they’ve reinvented a few times they went from landlines they went into mobile, then they went into cellular now they’re going into you know into you know other kind of things so.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: they’ve done a brilliant job as well.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But other companies let’s say Amazon they don’t keep reinventing they just keep raising the bar so they’re different things you know one is keep reinventing the other one Amazon First they come out with books online.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And then they come out with other consumables online, then they come out with their aws cloud platform.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And then movies, and all these different things that they keep adding on they just keep raising the bar higher and higher.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And they’ve done a good job, and so, companies need to recognize that there are those two different things are happening.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But the most important thing that companies can do, whether they know how to do it or not, is they need to ask really hard questions and, by the way this trend report at the end of every trend has a heart.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And question that a Board should sit around and ask about their company, and you know you can at least do some preliminary work by yourself, now, you might need some professional help.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, to make some predictions and things just like I made some predictions about how some of these different industries are going to unfold.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: that’s a lot of what we do, but you know but company should at least take a stab by themselves.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: The second thing is there’s a lot of things that companies can do number one they have to pay attention to the ecosystem in which they operate.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: They cannot be so insular that they’re looking internally all the time.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And they need to be constantly looking out what other companies are in our space what companies might come into our space.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: What are other companies in our space doing what do we need to be doing differently, they need to analyze.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: What they’re doing in fact we developed a tool we call the disruption algorithm and we we actually put information about.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Issues whether we if we invent something we’ll build an algorithm for that, and if a competitor built saying we’ll put that information into the algorithm.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And and it’ll spit out a score and tell us how how dangerous this thing is for us and how much we need to pay attention to it.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know I mean some companies will go as far as buying the competitor or they may go as far as investing.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: In you know in getting a piece of the action in the competitor because bettered own little bit of it than to be wiped out by it, I mean so there’s a lot of strategies that companies can use.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: A little bit beyond the scope of this discussion, but there’s a lot of places that companies can go and they what the one thing they should not do is put their head in the sand.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And just throw up their hands and say I don’t know what to do it when I talked to work out if that’s the case fold down the tip.


David Horsager: Well that’s that’s that’s that’s the work for all of us we’re all in, we have to be innovators today in this disruptive world we have to think differently next year.


David Horsager: You know, we say it all the time if you’re leading the way you were 20 years ago I don’t trust you if you’re.


David Horsager: You know, selling away were 10 years ago I don’t trust you if you’re teaching the way you were five years ago I don’t trust you, we have to be so changing and to be competitive and to be relevant.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know, so I would um you know I would use instead of the word trust, I would say don’t have confidence.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Which which really is the same thing as the word confidence in French it comes from the same word trust, I mean, but just the connotation in English is a little different.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know I wouldn’t have confidence in somebody who is doing the same, the same way, they were doing it five or 10 or 20 years ago just there they’re irrelevant and they’re they’re actually a you know, a ship going into the dark night right off the cliff.


David Horsager: let’s come to your you know let’s take a look at your.


David Horsager: BONUS report this year, the social media time bomb, I know you even said something even just to touch on it here as we wrap things toward a close, you said something social media is business rebellion is coming.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: yeah well actually the that number 12 turned into this 30th trend that we kind of blew out as a special report because it was so important.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know a lot of companies have gotten really enamored with social media.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: and social media it’s a great thing they’re great things about it but it’s very dangerous and i’m not talking about dangerous for people.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Like netflix had that docu drama some months ago that’s not what i’m talking about i’m talking about for businesses.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: A lot of businesses are building large communities online, which sounds like it’s just a fantastic idea it’s a great thing, but at the end of the day, what they realize is then they make a post and nobody sees it.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And they don’t see it, because the Facebook and the linkedin and these companies are very smart.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know they’re not going to let you, you know build your your community and then advertise to it for free, I mean it’s their real estate.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And, and so one of the questions I asked people is you know, would you build a multimillion dollar mansion on real estate that you rent on a month to month basis.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I mean, nobody would do that that’s ridiculous but that’s what they’re doing on Facebook as they’re building these communities on real estate that they do not own and they don’t have any control over so when they go to put an ad out there.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Of course it gets throttled there you know and i’m not you know, not even an ad when they go to put a video or a message it gets throttled so hardly anybody sees it.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And then they pay and still hardly anybody sees it, because people are inundated with you know many things you’re not the only thing in their feed.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: So they’re seeing all this other stuff and so your message is getting lost in a sea of other.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: of other things, and it just it’s a big mess and then, if you decide, you want to migrate to another platform.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You can’t take the people with you because you don’t have email address you don’t who they are, so the most important lesson for companies is they have to pull.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Their communities off Facebook and into into their own ecosystem.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know, David of you and I went fishing, we put the line in the water, and the fish would come on and would bite the hook we wouldn’t leave the fish in the water, we would pull the fish out of the water and put it into the boat.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And that’s what companies need to learn how to do they need to learn how to hook, the people using social media and then bring them into their own ecosystem in some other way.


David Horsager: And is that really important yeah is that gonna be a your own built Social Platform just for your community is that going to be.


David Horsager: Live email how you gonna stay in touch i’ll.


David Horsager: Go back.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And a minimum.


David Horsager: So used to go into Facebook, are they going to come to your little ecosystem in mind.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well then, it’s not that they may not come there.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: But let’s say that you know they go to Facebook, they look at some stuff, but if you have something important and you want to send it to the people.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You want to be able to control the sending part so that means that if people come into your ecosystem and you bring them into your world at the least.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You could send them an email, I mean there are maybe tools that are developing that are already exist that are better but, at the very least.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: If you don’t pull these people into your own orbit your own new ecosystem, the whole planetary thing about, whatever your company is big or small.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: you’re not going to have the ability to communicate with people on your terms you’re going to always be subject to somebody else.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know large companies are just fantastic and protecting their IP they protect all their stuff they have lost control of the communication their relationship with their customers.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: and talk about a breakdown and trust that’s a really serious place because if you can’t communicate with your people you can’t let them know what they need to know about you, when you want them to know it and it’s very problematic.


hmm.


David Horsager: Well, there is a whole lot more here for those of you interested, you can text trend to 72,007 2000 and you can get joel’s whole trend kit.


David Horsager: And the bonus social media kit and a whole lot more i’m going to give you the bonus round questions that we often ask just a few of them at least just because that’ll be fun before we get there, where else can we find more about Joel block.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know what go to go to Joel block car.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: yep that’s good.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Job black calm very simple.


David Horsager: love it and in your own advice come to your own place don’t go here on linkedin first are there on whatever, even though I know you’re on as.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: that’s it.


David Horsager: Alright let’s jump in here just a little bit for fun what’s a favorite book or resource right now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: i’m favorite book.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I like I like I like nonfiction, although I haven’t read recently i’ve been doing, I just listened to a lot of podcasts I listen to the Wall Street Journal every single day.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I there’s a couple other ones business wars which are the strategies of different companies have used over time to you know to you know go to you know go to war battle.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: there’s a couple leadership podcast and I like I mean there’s some podcasting is spectacular I just love it I love what we’re doing right now and I loved I love to consume them as well.


David Horsager: Great you know favorite favorite like tech gadget or APP right now.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: God, you know there’s probably let me look at my phone here real quick because.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Somebody I can’t even hardly remember but.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know what i’ll tell you there is for my business.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I use zoom I get the transcripts all set up on order and then I put everything into evernote so everything is everywhere, I go, I mean I just I really love the cloud computing.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: thing where everything is in one place, I can send you a link to the note and then all the transcripts the links and everything is in one place, I love that system it works great for me.


David Horsager: love it.


David Horsager: If you’re going to give someone a piece of advice today.


David Horsager: One piece of advice for let’s say leaders.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: Well, you know.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I think that, based on when I when I just said, you know earlier today is number one you know people need to be specialized it’s in their interest to be specialized.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: And you know show them some show them some care demonstrate that you care about them it’s not enough to be visionary it’s not enough to.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know just to lead and direct and be the good casting director, but you have to care about people, people, people need a little bit of attention we just people are there they’re good they’re alive they’re real and they just need a little bit of tlc.


David Horsager: Care yep human humanized.


David Horsager: So you can find more about gentle block at Joel block.com you can text trend to 72,000 last question of the day Joel, who is the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust and why.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: You know I trust my attorney.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: I mean you know I mean he’s not a famous person, but he he gives me good advice I trust his advice you know I understand the parameters our relationship.


Joel@BullseyeCap.com 818-917-0670: there’s not a lot of conflict there’s not a lot of you know phony baloney there it’s just it’s it’s real and we have a really good relationship when we do a lot of a lot of work together so you know I need a lot of protection and he provides me a lot of protection.


David Horsager: love it nothing like it, you know that the you can find all these ideas and show notes, I will say this about that you’re trusting your attorney.


David Horsager: there’s nothing like having a great team that you can trust around you right from attorney to financial to advisors to mastermind we’ve been in my group together, so no doubt about that.


David Horsager: So for anything mentioned in the episode just go to trusted leader show calm for the show notes, this has been the trusted leader show with Joel block, thank you for being here until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 17: Kendra Dodd on How To Create An Environment Of Belonging

In this episode, David sits down with Kendra Dodd, Presenter, Coach, and Consultant, to discuss how leaders can create an environment of belonging.

Kendra’s Bio:
Kendra has devoted her life to creating environments of belonging, inclusiveness, and progression. She has spent over half her life speaking and encouraging others.

She is a sought-after presenter, coach, and consultant regarding process improvements, culture dynamics, and personal improvement. Kendra understands the importance of development and has a passion for continuous learning. She loves gaining knowledge, often jesting that she never progressed out of the “curiosity stage.” Her dynamic enthusiasm is evident in her training.

Kendra has over 22 years of experience in organizational strategies. She has expert knowledge in Human Resources, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Emotional Intelligence, Conflict Management, Change Management, Organizational and Talent Development. Her human resources background has included participation in national-level pilot programs and initiatives to foster diversity and inclusion in the workplace.

Kendra has a bachelor’s of science degree and a master’s degree in Human Resources Development. Along with her formal education, Kendra is a certified DDI Trainer, certified Senior Professional in Human Resources (SPHR), and Certified Life/Career Coach. She has been an adjunct instructor for St. Mary’s University of Minnesota for over six years. She also serves on the board for Rakhama Homes and actively volunteers with local non-profit within the Twin Cities. Kendra is the founder and principal consultant of Fulfil-2B, LLC. Her clientele includes businesses, education institutions, mid to senior-level managers/executives, and high potential young adults.

Kendra’s Links:
Website: http://www.fulfil2b.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendra-q-dodd-mhrd-sphr-bcc-shrm-scp-15835616
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kendraqdodd/?hl=en
Twitter: https://twitter.com/KendraDodd
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KendraQDodd

Key Quotes:
1. “We all have been provided at sometime, some luxury of grace.”
2. “Its only great work if the people accept it.”
3. “Equity isn’t for all. Equity has to do with only leaders.”
4. “You can’t make people equitable unless you have the power to do it.”
5. “I think the biggest transformational work are those who accept theirself of who they are and where they are.”
6. “Ask one more question.”
7. “When you think you understand, ask one more time.”
8. “Is there anything else to feel complete?”
9. “You’ve got to find your healthy.”
10. “Find the thing in which would take you off equilibrium of your happiness or your peace.”
11. “Everyone wants their voice to be heard.”
12. “What’s the one thing you want to do to make a difference?”
13. “I’m not here to change anyone’s mind, because they’re grown adults.”
14. “Meet them where they are.”
15. “In this world you have good people and bad people.”
16. “Someone is always watching.”
17. “There will always be firsts.”
18. “What am I doing to be on the good side of history?”
19. “If nothing changes, nothing changes.”
20. “You can be one step out of your comfort zone every day.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
Restaurant Depot: https://www.restaurantdepot.com/restaurant-depot
“The Big Leap” by Gay Hendricks: https://amzn.to/3rJV6Jg

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager have a special guest today, she has more letters behind her name than I can probably spell.


David Horsager: She founded fulfill to be we’re going to talk about what that’s all about she has a history with PepsiCo free to lay out go a Mr a.


David Horsager: whole lot of great history, she runs her own firm these days and is changing organizations and changing lives, and I know that, especially because I know her and who she is welcome to the show kendra Dodd.


Kendra Dodd: Oh i’m so glad to be here, thank you for having me i’m excited.


David Horsager: Thank you so much, you know you’re talking about before you love narrative you love the backdrop so what’s we give us just a glimpse of what’s the you know the backdrop of kendra Dodd.


Kendra Dodd: Oh, it goes far back, but I am i’m proud to be a grits I don’t know if you know what that acronym is Do you know what that acronym is Dave.


David Horsager: tell me what it is.


Kendra Dodd: Tell a grits grits stands for girls raised in the south or.


Kendra Dodd: So.


David Horsager: opposite of me i’m a.


David Horsager: man.


David Horsager: On North man up north.


Kendra Dodd: So you can get paraphernalia down South but also if you don’t know grits is a southern cuisine I have you have you had oh absolutely I.


David Horsager: I lived in Arkansas for four years.


Kendra Dodd: Okay okay So yes, yes, I do so, you know I do love grits but Thank goodness in Minnesota we finally found where we can get five pound grits.


David Horsager: Where do you do.


Kendra Dodd: Literally it’s a restaurant market it’s called restaurant depot five pounds of grits yes.


David Horsager: So tell us the backdrop of you know you who you are you’ve you’ve really have this.


David Horsager: passion for helping people discover their purpose we’re going to look at that a little deeper look at your company a little bit, but tell us about what’s that like, how do you help someone discover their purpose.


Kendra Dodd: You know I think the biggest thing is I when I help people discover their purpose is we literally go through an exercise.


Kendra Dodd: I call it the narrative and, ironically, you know, some people say it’s seven is a you know, the number of completion i’m not big into numerology but it’s seven chapters.


Kendra Dodd: And the first chapter actually starts with before you were born and we actually go through each chapter and the first chapter is what was the backdrop before you came.


Kendra Dodd: Right what what what was going on and here’s the thing that’s for everyone, and some people like well I don’t know that story, or you know my story, I was adopted, or I was in foster care that is still the story.


Kendra Dodd: Because that is still a part of you right in that story, because even part of that i’ve heard people that are amazing within that story in that backdrop.


Kendra Dodd: They have done amazing things and they haven’t seen that, so we actually started in Chapter one all the way before they were born.


Kendra Dodd: Of the backdrop and then we go all the way to present life and where they are and looking at what we what I call a see moments it’s an acronym it stands for significant events and experiences.


Kendra Dodd: So we go through each chapter and we look at before you were even born Chapter one what was significant what was the you know experiences what was going on, and then we.


Kendra Dodd: We look at the themes of that, because what you’ll see.


Kendra Dodd: And what people will realize is that sometimes even they talk about like they’ve been a rose like i’m a thorn right it’s beautiful the rooms this the thorn.


Kendra Dodd: Is that even in those challenges, if you look at the backdrop you’ll see there’s themes of your purpose and where you are late as much as I fought not to do, I am the biggest integrate you can ever meet.


Kendra Dodd: David, so I am but.


Kendra Dodd: father of a cop, and my mother and educator you know it’s kind of their right of who I am and you know who was created to be, and I think the more that we get to understand that the more we can.


Kendra Dodd: Be assured of it and know that if we go in that path there’ll be better success than what we ever can try to do for ourselves, sometimes.


David Horsager: that’s kind of like I think somebody there was a Ted talk, I talked about the flow you finally found the flow it, I think.


David Horsager: We all have this thing of almost working against it sometimes like I don’t want to do that right like I even had this thing I don’t want to do a speaker that’s the.


David Horsager: cheesy motivational light whatever and you know now we do we do all this research we do this, but like if i’m if I must be i’m they’re going to tell.


David Horsager: You they’re going to say i’m a motivational speaker I can’t can’t do that, and now you know it’s a quarter what we do, of course, and what I do and really who I am when I am at my best, but it’s um I still don’t want to be a cheesy motivational speaker, but you know, there we go.


Kendra Dodd: Exactly I like what you said, I like flow I like that word that you said.


David Horsager: flow I think that’s interesting boy i’m going to jump all over here today because I think it’s interesting to everybody and you’ve been a leader and really develop leaders, how you did say something that hits a topic of the day, and your father was a cop.


David Horsager: You are an African American lady would I say that correctly.


Kendra Dodd: Whatever that makes you feel comfortable was.


Kendra Dodd: Second, to the child of God i’m good.


David Horsager: well.


David Horsager: i’m saying that for listeners, because people know what happened, less than a year ago in Minnesota.


David Horsager: Right and you’ve helped me and you’ve certainly helped others in this diversity inclusion I love, how you say it on what you do you add the word belonging, but I think you have a significant perspective for people on how to.


David Horsager: This challenge of the last year, help us understand how we can think about that, and how we can be better humans and better leaders.


Kendra Dodd: very good question you know I ironically, and I wasn’t thinking I spend some time early morning i’m an early riser and.


Kendra Dodd: kind of the theme for me today was grace and my theme was got grace, you know you’ve heard of the got milk it’s got grace and I think what happens is that.


Kendra Dodd: We start having these judgments of these expectations of others and we forget that they’re human.


Kendra Dodd: And so, therefore, we don’t provide grace and trust me, I mean even from a year ago, or things that’s happened that we all have been provided at sometimes some.


Kendra Dodd: luxury of grace rate and then, if we learn how to exchange that and give it I think it’ll be better, and I think that’s the biggest thing that happens in leaders right with expectations, I think that’s challenges i’ve worked with leaders and they get offended they feel disrespected.


Kendra Dodd: What you do is you insert grace you enter Eric another word is empathy.


Kendra Dodd: Right is the ability to be empathetic where that person comes from, and I think that’s the part that’s.


Kendra Dodd: Missing because you’re trying to get through your own hurt, but if we going back to that narrative and figuring out what triggers you then it won’t hurt so bad.


Kendra Dodd: Right, I think that’s probably the key issue that happens with leaders is that you’re trying to cover it because you don’t think you know there’s the buzzword probably about 10 years ago transparent leader.


Kendra Dodd: right but it’s very important to kind of going back to where you are with the trusted leader to trust the leader is being transparent is being clear, and I think that’s missed some time within their actions with against their words right we.


David Horsager: You know, and I like what you said about empathy I you know, I was I don’t it’s it’s it’s a topic that needs to be dealt with, and I think you help us well and I certainly didn’t mean to say this is who you are in a in a in a.


David Horsager: In a bucket but I will most people will hear this only hear it by listening and it this give someone a perspective, who we are, what we look like our color of skin our backgrounds and.


David Horsager: And I think you know Lisa and I, we were right after college, we went to an area and that my P O box post office box was next to that of the leader of the KKK in that area and I hadn’t seen things i’ve seen i’d seen you know never seen such.


David Horsager: overt racism.


David Horsager: We have plenty of verse of racism, but you’ve helped and are helping organizations big one, some of the biggest in the world with.


David Horsager: Diversity, inclusion and belonging and yet I think i’ve even seen you know, in June, when the you know this.


David Horsager: horrible murder happened in minneapolis and all kinds of things happen across the country, there seemed to be.


David Horsager: You know I had my my trusted certified coaches were reading where we read white fragility, we were at this, we were that we were learning and you know.


David Horsager: We try to be intentional about that back 20 years, I can say the ways we’re intentional and that’s not an excuse or a real affirmation but i’ve already seen.


David Horsager: Maybe a little less interest, maybe a little less care, maybe a little less importance, maybe a little less budget, maybe a little less vision.


David Horsager: on creating belonging and for all, you know all of our people let’s just even take our people in our company or our domain, not all people let’s just fine we’ll make it simple let’s pull those we touch.


David Horsager: And I think, with a whole lot of learning and development keeping things fresh and moving forward is a challenge, but how do you do it with this work, how do we keep you know how do you keep this.


David Horsager: rollout I know you’re even known for rollouts of diversity inclusion, but how do you how do you keep it rolling right.


Kendra Dodd: I, yes, I would agree to all that and the biggest rollout I think the biggest thing is that.


Kendra Dodd: I think it’s human nature is to size ourselves up against the joneses are our neighbors across the street right well this company is doing this, this company is doing that, which goes back to okay Where are you.


Kendra Dodd: Right so really spending that assessment, I believe, for people that come in, they say, well i’ve done this and i’ve done that, and like did you ask the people about it.


Kendra Dodd: Well it’s great work it’s only great work if the people accept it, and I think that’s The biggest challenge that I see in these rollouts or the opportunity of it because we’re not starting where you are if and here’s the thing.


Kendra Dodd: don’t believe anything I say that someone told me that a good mentor of mine told me that, but at the same time is you don’t have to do what everyone else is doing.


Kendra Dodd: And I think once people realize, where I am and what we need, like there’s organizations you’ll see the change of yes, I add belonging.


Kendra Dodd: And you’ll see this migration of you might not need diversity you don’t have to who says, it has to be dei who says, it has to be di be there’s another one that’s come out D Ay Ay advocacy all right.


Kendra Dodd: it’s what does he what is he I think he should be.


David Horsager: Diverse I think you should be inclusion and trust.


Kendra Dodd: There you go, you can you can do that and there’s no rules.


Kendra Dodd: And I think it’s you know it’s amazing there’s this one organization i’m working with is that it’s like they have to force the deep like diversity out.


Kendra Dodd: And there’s some history with it once again like Why are people getting triggered by that word, of course I researched it and why and try to find the reason why.


Kendra Dodd: It was a challenge for people but yeah you can make it equity and see equity isn’t for all equity has to do with only leaders, because you can’t make people equitable once you have the power to do it.


Kendra Dodd: hmm hey.


David Horsager: Great so true.


Kendra Dodd: So sometime some organizations shouldn’t use the word equity I think it’s Where are we now what is our biggest opportunity and that becomes our true North right look.


David Horsager: I look I think that’s so true, I think you know.


David Horsager: transformation of people’s hard, I mean you know we often joke about it right leadership development often fails learning about culture development.


David Horsager: You know all this this stuff’s if we if we just didn’t have to deal with people right, but we do and that’s what we’re trying to transform or be a part of let them transform right.


David Horsager: So right you seen, and you can take whether it’s D I eat and be.


David Horsager: Work or yeah yeah oh sorry.


Kendra Dodd: exactly right.


Kendra Dodd: Or you take.


David Horsager: um or you take any kind of because I know your work is broader your leadership developer.


David Horsager: Your consultant asked to do more than this i’m not trying to pigeonhole anything I just know your expertise that we wanted to kind of suck the marrow.


David Horsager: Of on one part but, but where have you seen any people transformation work, work and what was common there.


Kendra Dodd: You know that’s a very good question David.


Kendra Dodd: I think the biggest transformational work are those who accept their self of who they are and where they are.


Kendra Dodd: I think part of this journey part of this mantra part of this challenge, within that work of you know di be a whatever words, you are is that they’re scared to be bad.


Kendra Dodd: Right I don’t want to be the bad person the bad guy I don’t want to say the bad thing I don’t if I think this does it make me bad.


Kendra Dodd: And it’s not a part of you, and I think when people can separate the identity of what I think, or what I process that it doesn’t make me a bad person I think that’s when the work can be effectively done.


David Horsager: hmm, how do we create a space for that.


Kendra Dodd: Trust I mean I hate to say that, but really it’s trust it’s it’s safety that and really out of that is OK, to fail.


Kendra Dodd: Right, there was a situation, what I had one time, and someone it probably wasn’t the most productive and you know you’ve probably heard people say that you know if you fail, that means you’ve tried.


Kendra Dodd: Probably wasn’t the most productive thing to do right and it could have went significantly worse and the situation.


Kendra Dodd: And the boss got very upset like I can’t believe this is bad and like I don’t think it’s bad right i’m not going to say no harm no foul i’m not going to go that far, but what i’ll say is this is a coaching opportunity.


Kendra Dodd: If they think anything they try, you know you could say it for kids you can say it for adults, you can say it in leadership.


Kendra Dodd: That if they think it’s okay and trying, which then leaves room to say Okay, if I say something wrong, and I do something wrong that you’re going to give me that empathy or that grace then i’ll continue to try.


Kendra Dodd: And I think that’s the missing opportunity of letting people fail forward right.


Kendra Dodd: letting people allow the space of then asking questions and then actually learning how to coach right so part of that is.


Kendra Dodd: I think that’s what makes me, unique in my business is that I coach along the way I don’t consult as well, I actually do coaching exercises and.


Kendra Dodd: matter of fact, I had a leader one time that was like you’re different than any other consultant i’ve had, and that is I just don’t give the plan and walk away I say Okay, how can we implement this and change or the opportunities of behaviors and patterns that need to be broken so yeah.


David Horsager: I love that you know so many people they want help like they want, they want to, if we don’t give it to them you, you can have given this assessment, you can give them that, but it looks like.


David Horsager: it’s everybody’s being asked to do more with less they’re overwhelmed how if you can actually help them get there, you know I know you as an excellent coach what what other do you have another tip or two on what what what makes a great coach.


Kendra Dodd: One of the things i’ve noticed that i’ve had interns work for me now or people that you know i’ve helped and mentor it along the way, is, I say ask one more question that’s probably the number one that I do.


Kendra Dodd: Is that when you think you understand ask one more time ask one more question lean in one more time just for clarification so that’s my.


Kendra Dodd: Number one is ask one more question I would say the number two that I love that has done miraculously and I thought it was when I got certified I thought it was the cheesiest question ever to be quite honest, David, and that is is there anything else to feel complete.


Kendra Dodd: It sounds quirky like but it’s amazing and what that is is.


Kendra Dodd: Is there any sometime you know when you have conversations and you’re thinking of like should I ask that no I shouldn’t maybe this isn’t time she didn’t get permission.


Kendra Dodd: Oh, and you’re like Okay, whatever that has brought your subconscious to your conscious.


Kendra Dodd: And you think it’s not part of the conversation, it has to be if it came to your conscious and so it’s that space to allow is there anything else to feel complete.


Kendra Dodd: That has done miraculous work, so I always leave time at the end.


Kendra Dodd: To ask that question so i’m not leading right like you know not trying to tell you the lead at right like if this interview was over, is there anything else to feel complete like Well he didn’t ask me.


Kendra Dodd: Well, you know what Yes, this is on the you know subconscious of my mind that has come forward of i’m thinking this so those two, I think, will go a long way in coaching of you know, and, of course, listen last but i’ll say Lena and ask one more question yeah.


David Horsager: And with that i’ll ask you another question.


Kendra Dodd: Okay sounds great.


Kendra Dodd: When you’re ready for one can’t.


David Horsager: You know, we talked a lot about in our work, and you know is trusted leader, seeking to be trusted leaders, you know you have to lead yourself.


David Horsager: you’re leading and you’re influencing a lot of people that are influencing a lot of others, what are you doing to lead yourself, maybe there’s a routine or just something you’re doing.


hmm.


Kendra Dodd: spend time with myself, I mean that’s really people are scared to actually spend time with themselves and find that time and especially with the pandemic.


Kendra Dodd: If it’s the bathroom, it has to be the bathroom right and shut the door, but really spawning finding some time within you know, and I would say, I am an advocate of journaling.


Kendra Dodd: But finding that time to write the thoughts out to make it action there’s plenty of studies and you’ve probably seen them how writing things down, not even typing but actually writing things down.


Kendra Dodd: become more clear more vision of getting those things out of what you’re feeling, so I think that’s very important as far as a habit for me of finding that quiet time, I think.


David Horsager: it’s three of the last four episodes or at least interviews that i’ve done the leader, the the guests, that said journaling journaling journaling during how valuable journaling is to get clear.


David Horsager: I remember, I read a book and it was part of a college course that said right to learn that was the bone.


David Horsager: And it was is like how you learn by reading and also what you just said about about writing instead of typing how I think if I remember the statistic right.


David Horsager: you’re you remember 33% more of what you right then type because it connects with your particular activating system in your brain someone else can tell you what that means I just know the data.


Kendra Dodd: Right exactly i’m with you i’m with you.


Kendra Dodd: Know that’s great so.


David Horsager: Until tell me that you get personal here a little bit, but do you have that you’ll share a you know I see great leaders are healthy.


David Horsager: You physically relational in other ways, maybe spiritual or whatever, is there any other habit or routine I know you have many, but is there any other habit you to that I here’s how I stay healthy, so I can serve others, you know what.


David Horsager: I remember, for me, when I lost physically 52 pounds.


David Horsager: I was able to handle.


David Horsager: 199 flights, a year, a whole lot better and serve people better as one example, like it was It matters because physical all these things tie together so much and how we help others.


Kendra Dodd: anything.


David Horsager: Any way you’re routinely staying healthy in some way.


David Horsager: That we could learn from.


Kendra Dodd: And that’s a good question I think there’s a balance and all of that right So for me their spiritual health and what I mean, and you know there’s the physical.


Kendra Dodd: That you, excuse me that you talked about but then there’s the kind of like emotional I think what drains me the most that if it’s not balanced and I didn’t realize was just the environment of serving and all that sounds kind of funny like it didn’t hit me at one point in my life.


Kendra Dodd: I wasn’t serving right i’m always in some serving capacity.


Kendra Dodd: That will throw me off the equilibrium and then probably the second so.


Kendra Dodd: i’m always doing something from a service standpoint of way in which I can give back to the Community, I know that that’s important, so you got to find that one thing that probably creates.


Kendra Dodd: A residual effect, I think, being healthy is important, but in that healthy is you got to find your healthy.


Kendra Dodd: Right like there’s different things so there’s different things that I can say that I do.


Kendra Dodd: But that’s for my own body, because I have like an autoimmune disease right, so the things that I need for my autoimmune will be different than someone else that you know I can say I do this, but I would say is find the thing and which would.


Kendra Dodd: Take you off equilibrium of your happiness or your peace, and I think that’s it for me if I was in a place where I didn’t feel like I was helping someone else or feeding within the next probably of what I can give that would be hard for me, you know.


David Horsager: This is very interesting and very few people have answered the question I don’t think anybody has you know near like this and it’s so interesting because I just read and I don’t have this study in my head.


David Horsager: But basically, the the one of the top ways out of depression, according to this paper so i’m giving one source only here.


David Horsager: But it was.


David Horsager: volunteerism and service this this health to if people are depressed or like you said, maybe emotionally maybe this is something just.


David Horsager: Not to give to get, but it is something interesting that it helps us when we think of others serve others I think was just interesting I wish I had that study right in front of me share this moment but.


David Horsager: yeah um yeah certainly.


Kendra Dodd: It says a lot and I didn’t notice it and I was trying to figure out what is it, I felt, you know, lack of a better word empty really.


Kendra Dodd: And I realized that I wasn’t doing as much service i’ll tell you for those who are listening in the twin cities area I i’ve moved around this is the seventh state i’ve lived in and not even counting the city.


Kendra Dodd: Of there’s great service i’m doing a plug opportunities there’s you know volunteer match.org great there’s so many things that you can give back that people are in need, right now, even more than ever, especially within the twin cities of needing help.


David Horsager: Give us one what’s one one of your favorite places you’ve served at that time over the last 10 years what’s a service opportunity you’ve grasped and enjoyed and been fulfilled by maybe.


Kendra Dodd: You know, honestly, as the ones in which I just look for and find I remember, making mittens so my kids and I made mittens for the homeless.


Kendra Dodd: We have made the sandwiches for the homeless, but I think the one that I think was amazing is we were driving through the cities and my daughter noticed.


Kendra Dodd: The homeless and it was a while that they did it for a while they would get up in the mornings on their own accord and make sandwiches.


Kendra Dodd: would have water in my husband would drive them to the areas where the homeless, were, and so it doesn’t you know you don’t have to go and volunteer match, you can just go up the street.


Kendra Dodd: and finding opportunity, but I would say, those are the big I love honestly I love nursing homes, too, so I just joined.


Kendra Dodd: So i’m back I took a hiatus a little bit, but i’m on the board for a nursing home that specializes and seniors that have alzheimer’s.


Kendra Dodd: And that’s near and dear my grandmother has alzheimer’s so i’m on the board for that now i’m looking at opportunity I just had my first board meeting this past month.


David Horsager: wow and you know your husband’s on a great board maybe more than that are.


David Horsager: Yes, helping young men.


Kendra Dodd: Yes, and.


David Horsager: You know you as a family or you’re serving others and and always thinking that way so that’s that’s cool um.


David Horsager: let’s, you know as we look at leadership for you and you you’ve walked with leaders and been a leader but what’s kind of how do you.


David Horsager: I guess what I would say is how do you inspire motivate others.


Kendra Dodd: If that was myself talking, I would say i’m not i’m flesh and blood.


Kendra Dodd: You know if if you were to ask others, maybe the answer will be different so that’s very challenging to.


Kendra Dodd: To answer that question because I think we all have the imposter syndrome at times right what am I doing right kind of what you’re saying i’m just a speaker, but I think what i’ve heard people say is I give them hope.


Kendra Dodd: You know I think that’s what I hear hope that they can be better empowerment probably is another word that I hear, and I think it’s because everyone wants their voice to be heard there’s an activity, I used to do on retreats.


Kendra Dodd: And I took it from and I, you know I didn’t create it myself of indigenous people they used to have the talking stick and they used to have a pole of course I you know the women’s retreats that I would do I made it kind of more feminine and I had a tiara.


Kendra Dodd: And a staff and the to let them put the tear on their head, and I would say Okay, and the person have holding the terror wearing the T era.


Kendra Dodd: is the one who only speaks and it’s an amazing activity right you’ve probably had that activity of just being able to speak, where people like why i’m being heard.


Kendra Dodd: And I listened right is that going back to the coaching asking one more question where i’m not giving a statement hmm love it yeah.


David Horsager: kids are producer has a question it’s time cat time here we go.


Kendra Dodd: Oh it’s good time.


David Horsager: Yes.


David Horsager: show your face, though, we got to see there we go.


David Horsager: hi kendra so my question was when you’re going into these organizations these companies.


David Horsager: And you’re working with like, maybe senior leadership teams and stuff like that, how do you deal with by in like maybe there’s some people that are like we need change in whatever way, and some people that are like we don’t need it or.


David Horsager: I don’t need it or somebody that, how do you get that buy in to be able to actually create the change that needs to happen.


Kendra Dodd: that’s funny that you said that I am.


Kendra Dodd: Getting in is is the easier like once i’m in is the easier part it’s getting in as the hardest part for me honestly my conversion rate once they actually talk to me it’s pretty good camp.


Kendra Dodd: Which is surprising, like my conversion rate is like 80% or something like that um so I have a high conversion rate, I think the thing is.


Kendra Dodd: I give them the ability to say why are you going so fast, where you going we heading.


Kendra Dodd: Right like when we got to do this, and I think they feel the pressure of society right, well, we have to do this, and they do this and we have to say this, and I said, where is that coming from.


Kendra Dodd: Who is telling you, you have to let’s just start let’s just breathe and let’s just see where we start and it’s like really like I don’t I don’t sell them my package, so I really don’t like doing rfp.


Kendra Dodd: To be quite honest, because they just.


Kendra Dodd: rfp or pages long, and you got to do this, and they want to do this and and like slow down breathe, why do you have so much, what is the and that’s that’s my favorite question so other consultants or leaders is what’s The one thing you want to do.


Kendra Dodd: To make the difference.


Kendra Dodd: Right I simplify it for them right I let them breathe a little bit and let’s pick the one thing, so I I think that’s the buy in.


Kendra Dodd: is for them to say okay she’s going to be patient with me and she’s not going to force some package down my throat and she’s going to really say Okay, what do I need, what do we need.


Kendra Dodd: And it’s okay to take it at the pace, I want to.


David Horsager: So this just made me think of something else that i’ve seen and I appreciate that I I maybe it’s happened, you tell me if this is a could be a true possibility or not there’s you’re asked to do, diversity inclusion work.


David Horsager: Right and you have a group of people that aren’t very diverse.


David Horsager: And their arms are crossed, and they have to be there and it’s like, how do you.


David Horsager: You know how do you how do you get buy in then because.


David Horsager: You have something you and I both know we believe is important.


David Horsager: I have with trust I lead I end up leading with research.


David Horsager: But.


David Horsager: You know let’s just say it’s happened where.


David Horsager: it’s a very homogenous group, and you know they’re judging and there at least you feel it.


David Horsager: You try not to make assumptions yourself, but their arms are crossed everything they show is, I have to be here and I don’t care and I don’t i’m just going to get through this.


David Horsager: stuff that were made to do right, what do you how do you how do you help i’m thinking of someone very specific that that just like oh Please see this this this this truth, you know.


Kendra Dodd: David those are the ones that excite me, I mean.


Kendra Dodd: I mean really I rather have that than people that are over, ambitious and then they create faults failure.


Kendra Dodd: rate I call it faults failure because they created it for themselves.


Kendra Dodd: You know I had a gentleman walk up to me one time it was training, though, and he said I don’t want to.


Kendra Dodd: I am not going to listen to your secular SEC psychobabble or propaganda it wasn’t psychobabble I don’t want to listen to your secular propaganda.


Kendra Dodd: do know me.


Kendra Dodd: Nothing about me and I said great i’m glad you’re here, and he was like did you hear me that’s like I did i’m not gonna listen to you i’m like great but i’m glad you’re here.


Kendra Dodd: And it’s just one of those I saw my you know talk about backdrop, I i’ve seen like even my dad’s mom how she was just amazing like she could.


Kendra Dodd: She the way she could charm and then the way Maybe she will go behind closed doors and really stay how she feels was amazing to me or just getting past yourself and so it’s not about me.


Kendra Dodd: You crossing your arms don’t hurt my feelings you having a scowl on your face has nothing to do with me right, it has.


David Horsager: A strong as you.


Kendra Dodd: You you.


Kendra Dodd: It has everything to do with you and not me, you know and it’s you know and there’s times, David I think you’ve met me, and you know i’ve told the truth of you know of i’m going to still get paid.


Kendra Dodd: So it’s up to you, and what you want now one of the things I do ask, though in that’s very important talk about the backdrop, is why am I here.


Kendra Dodd: that’s a very important question to me how did it get to the point that you’re paying extra money for someone to come in.


Kendra Dodd: And so that’s a very important question how did I get here can you help me lead me up to the time where you said, I want to have a third party person come in and that’s an important answer for me.


Kendra Dodd: And so, if the person is crossing their arms saying well because this xyz incident happened will tell me about that incident.


Kendra Dodd: What do you think should be done in that incident, why do you think it should be me.


Kendra Dodd: So it’s leaning in asking more questions than saying, well, I can fix it no no i’m not saying i’m going to fix it, I want to say, I want you to think about it.


Kendra Dodd: And why do you think that I will be the resolution to that and so that’s where I get people talking and understanding, so it becomes more of a coaching session than me having a cell session.


Kendra Dodd: Of them talking through of saying.


Kendra Dodd: Well, maybe it’s not me and that’s happened before i’ve been in a situation where they said whole No, this is so bad, and it was an African American employee and they complained and and I said.


Kendra Dodd: I don’t think you have a race issue you have a communication issue and Lo and behold, we have started some work in I mean it was very baseline.


Kendra Dodd: Of they couldn’t even communicate how they feel and they’re like Oh, we have some work to do, yeah we’ll come back if you want to do some more and i’m okay with that.


Kendra Dodd: And so I think that’s what it is, of i’m not here to change anyone’s mind because they’re grown adults, and I think the biggest thing is meet them where once again meet them where they are so it’s Okay, if you cross your arms because.


Kendra Dodd: i’ll still be me at the end of the day.


David Horsager: that’s an impressive noble way of looking at the world and people that’s that’s that’s powerful yeah so well, we have so much we could cover and touch on and I, but before the before the lightning round.


Kendra Dodd: mm hmm.


David Horsager: Is there anything else to feel complete.


Kendra Dodd: Oh, look at you, David you’re wonderful student look at you.


Kendra Dodd: You know I think for me to feel complete and talking about that backdrop a little bit um you know I don’t know it’s just on my mind and it’s probably come up is.


Kendra Dodd: I spoke at my father’s funeral.


Kendra Dodd: And, and my mother just told me the story, two weeks ago and it only reason came up is because my godson talk about you know odd is that he just graduated from the police academy a week ago.


Kendra Dodd: And that we were having a long conversation of you know, he calls me on T he doesn’t call me God mom he’s like auntie he was like this feels different because you know he’s in you know, in the south and now he’s a police officer and I remember you know.


Kendra Dodd: wiping his bike you know, like type of thing and so he was like it feels different and he grew up as a military kid and he said, this is different, he was like I want you to help me and what did it feel like.


Kendra Dodd: Being you know, a policeman’s daughter, and then definitely like you said brown girl rate and then in its official.


Kendra Dodd: I said it’s a different type of fishbowl that you know I told him the biggest thing for him is don’t think when you have civilian clothes that people don’t know who you are.


Kendra Dodd: They will always know who you are and that’s how your life changes, and so I grew up with that, because my dad was they hire they thought it would be cool to hire two black police officers at the same time.


Kendra Dodd: As they went through that they thought okay let’s they can go through this together, and you know, actually, ironically, they say the same for interracial multicultural adoption ironically.


Kendra Dodd: But I think as a leader and looking at that is that one my dad never complained, the only thing my dad ever told me is that.


Kendra Dodd: In this world you have good people and bad people and that doesn’t it doesn’t matter what environment you’re in you can be in the Church, you can be at a.


Kendra Dodd: You know the College, the state school is in the middle of nowhere that there’s good and bad and it’s your choice and what you see but also is realized that someone is always watching.


Kendra Dodd: And I think as leaders we forget that.


Kendra Dodd: And also thinking, even in the good that can be the bad you know, in that, so that was probably on my mind and looking at that of what made it different, and I did say that it is eulogy not wants to that dickie narrow it down to a group.


Kendra Dodd: Right, he never said women blacks Asians he never he always just said just understand your environment and understand there’s good bad there’s all different, and they all have that same light clock of what their intense our intentions are so.


David Horsager: that’s good.


yeah.


David Horsager: You know I gotta jump for one more question here before we hit the.


Kendra Dodd: lightning because.


David Horsager: i’m not complete without it, either now.


David Horsager: What do you, you know.


David Horsager: What are you learning now what what’s what are you learning and and thinking about the most right now.


Kendra Dodd: i’m honestly what i’m learning now his legacy.


Kendra Dodd: You know I think what’s.


Kendra Dodd: You know even February, you know, we are in the second day of black history month and probably the biggest thing for me.


Kendra Dodd: Is We always talk about the history, the history mean of the past, my that’s always been intriguing so I can tell you tons of quote unquote history of the past.


Kendra Dodd: But I think what i’ve seen and this time for this month is the history of the of the present and the legacy, in which you bring and looking at in a different lens.


Kendra Dodd: is, I think, interesting for me and so looking at it that way, so.


Kendra Dodd: There will always be first I think they’re like when will it stop when we won’t have first it won’t be it’ll be always the first of something but realizing that first does then place a stamp on history.


Kendra Dodd: And so I think i’m looking at what am I doing currently and what is happening now currently that even what happened in minneapolis that is going to be in the history books.


Kendra Dodd: Right and then what am I doing kind of like john Lewis, to be on the good side of history right and try to understand that so that’s probably impacted me more than ever have.


Kendra Dodd: You know, not just the past but the President and what differences that making for the history moving forward hmm great stuff yeah.


David Horsager: wow kendra Dodd so much here.


Kendra Dodd: This is an awesome Thank you.


David Horsager: know we have we have a lightning round you get to get right.


Kendra Dodd: Now I know this is going to be in seat here we go, but before.


David Horsager: That I mean think about this.


David Horsager: Give grace and empathy love the backdrop.


David Horsager: Your emotional as far as your hat key habit was being a part of service or an environment of service journaling.


David Horsager: Think, I really like this, and I think people should look up your set you that the seven chapters from before you’re born to till now.


David Horsager: and significant events and knowing your stuff that kind of goes to our trust shield idea, a little bit the way we use the trust shield to to know yourself as leader and then to share that vulnerability vulnerability.


David Horsager: I love that.


David Horsager: Great coaches there’s.


David Horsager: Two questions for you, from kendra dot one when when you think you know ask one more question and number two is there anything else anything else, that would.


David Horsager: Anything else that would make this feel complete or yes hope you feel complete yes so much more Why am I here.


David Horsager: dad never complain there’s good and bad people so don’t narrow the group love it.


Kendra Dodd: and hold on more yeah.


Kendra Dodd: So yeah.


David Horsager: Yes, thank you well it’s quick fire questions to close this out and then a final question about being a trusted leader but number one what’s a favorite book or resource right now.


Kendra Dodd: i’m the big leap.


Kendra Dodd: i’m still yeah it’s a book it’s called the big leap.


Kendra Dodd: I forget who the author is.


David Horsager: All right, big one sentence about the book.


Kendra Dodd: Oh one sentence about the book is that we have our own self limiting.


Kendra Dodd: Okay, we limit ourselves great.


David Horsager: Something kendra can’t live without.


Kendra Dodd: This is really hard and I thought about it um I can’t I can’t live without reading.


David Horsager: Ah, good like it, I love it and you can’t live without I know your family or faith or a lot of other things, but that is a great one without reading.


David Horsager: Yes, best or just a piece of advice or favorite quote.


Kendra Dodd: If nothing changes nothing changes.


David Horsager: So true.


David Horsager: that’s i’m writing that down right now.


again.


Kendra Dodd: yeah.


David Horsager: If nothing changes.


Kendra Dodd: Nothing things.


David Horsager: Change is so true Okay, and one thing left on the bucket list or one hope for the future.


Kendra Dodd: When hope for the future.


Kendra Dodd: I have gotten the Internet one hope for the future.


Kendra Dodd: Is that everybody can be one step further out of their comfort zone.


Kendra Dodd: I think that would make a difference in the world.


David Horsager: Okay i’m jumping off the, off the grill here again and saying.


David Horsager: Are you doing that, how are you getting one step off, but you know I, I have the latitude I can go off the quickfire question.


Even though.


David Horsager: it’s like hey we’re out of time.


David Horsager: Well, how are you doing it, you know, we need to figure out how to do this, how are you having one step further out of your comfort zone.


Kendra Dodd: You know what that can be every day, David I think what’s helping me do it is I have accountability partners.


Kendra Dodd: mm hmm right like there’s something you literally can be one step out of your comfort zone every day.


Kendra Dodd: And I i’m doing that i’m i’m having someone that I have to be held accountable to I think that’s the key it’s like having accountability partner.


David Horsager: love it we talked about it, we need it healthy accountability can transform teams and individuals.


David Horsager: exactly for that before our final question.


David Horsager: Where can everybody hear more or find you where’s the best place to find more about kendra Dodd.


Kendra Dodd: Well, I think the best place to find me is, if you have a linkedin account is going to linkedin kendra q.com that’s a whole nother podcast for the Q David.


Kendra Dodd: But you can go there also instagram is more personal you can go on instagram if you want to know what my professional work looks like you can go to kendra q.com if you don’t remember K end or a q.com or fulfilled to be calm.


Kendra Dodd: And my work.


David Horsager: yeah we’ll put that this show notes fulfilled.


David Horsager: Because it’s spelled really cool.


David Horsager: It didn’t spend as much time as i’d like on this, but.


David Horsager: I know there’s a big backdrop here, but can you give us a glimpse fulfilled to be tell us about it.


Kendra Dodd: Actually it’s about legacy.


Kendra Dodd: And so my father’s name was phil so I did a play on words so you know for phil.


Kendra Dodd: And that’s you know this is for him, he did a lot of things and pioneer and things so fulfill and then to be at that time, when I started the organization is both of my two children.


Kendra Dodd: With the name be and so it’s all about legacy and looking at it from what he wants and what I want from them, so now, I have three b’s.


Kendra Dodd: But it’s to my bees to my children that I want to leave behind so it’s all about legacy that’s what it’s about and the fulfill is looking outside of your you know it’s spelled differently, but it’s not spelled wrong.


Kendra Dodd: it’s just in the UK version, and so I intentionally did that, as well, so thank you for asking.


David Horsager: Yes, and that will be in the show notes just trusted leader show calm you’ll find everywhere, you can connect with the amazing kendra Dodd.


Kendra Dodd: So it is.


David Horsager: The final question.


Kendra Dodd: Oh okay.


Kendra Dodd: let’s see.


David Horsager: Here we go.


David Horsager: The trusted leader show.


Kendra Dodd: was a.


David Horsager: leader you trust in why.


Kendra Dodd: You know I i’ve thought about all the leaders in my life there’s mentors in my life, their leaders, but the Leader right now that if I was you know I don’t like crowds.


Kendra Dodd: But I would stand in line to really see that I think has done amazing work as indra nooyi with PepsiCo she was the President she just retired last year.


Kendra Dodd: And what amazes me about indra is she was very transparent and real of the challenges and her life.


Kendra Dodd: And that’s the first time I saw a leader do that unapologetically but also truthfully of what the challenges are and so indra nooyi, I think, is what PepsiCo when I see a leader and what I would like to live up to be is her.


David Horsager: I wrote about her and I couldn’t agree more fantastic example.


David Horsager: Well, this has been a special treat kendra Thank you.


Kendra Dodd: Thank you.


David Horsager: Thank you for sharing with our audience thanks for being a trusted leader and thanks for being a friend.


David Horsager: awesome this has been interesting work.


David Horsager: Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so appreciate that this has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 16: Daniel Burrus on How Trends Can Help You Predict The Future

In this episode, David sits down with Daniel Burrus, Technology Futurist, Disruptive Innovation Expert, Keynote Speaker, and Best Selling Author, to discuss how trends can help you predict the future.

Daniel’s Bio:
Daniel Burrus is considered one of the World’s Leading Futurists on Global Trends and Disruptive Innovation. He is a strategic advisor to executives from Fortune 500 companies, using his Anticipatory Business Mode to develop game-changing strategies based on his proven methodologies for capitalizing on technology innovations and their future impact.

He is the author of seven books, including The New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller, Flash Foresight, and his latest best-selling book, The Anticipatory Organization, and he is a syndicated writer with millions of monthly readers on the topics of technology driven trends, disruptive innovation, and exponential change. Burrus is an innovative entrepreneur who has founded six businesses, four of which were U.S. national leaders in the first year. The New York Times has referred to him as one of the top three business gurus in the highest demand as a speaker.

Daniel’s Links:
Daniel’s Top Technology-Driven Hard Trends Shaping 2021: https://www.burrus.com/seethefuture
Website: https://www.burrus.com/
“The Anticipatory Organization” by Daniel Burrus: https://amzn.to/30uYBah
“Flash Foresight” by Daniel Burrus: https://amzn.to/2O9Gpkg
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielburrus/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/danielburrus
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DanielBurrus/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/burrusdaniel/?hl=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrpDpU7kFUnHYSkyL2Vm-cQ

Key Quotes:
1. “Hard Trends: a future fact that will happen. The key is that it cannot be changed.”
2. “Soft Trend: based on an assumption about the future that may or may not happen.”
3. “A trend by itself is academic.”
4. “When you attach a trend to an actionable opportunity, it bursts into life.”
5. “The beautiful opportunity of a soft trend is if you don’t like it you can change it.”
6. “A hard trend lets you see disruptions before they disrupt.”
7. “Hard trends: you can see problems before they happen and pre-solve them.”
8. “I like to take complexity and get it to a simplified form so that we can make use of it and internalize it.”
9. “Opposites work better.”
10. “The things I don’t know don’t empower me.”
11. “The power of a hard trend is it gives you certainty in a world filled with uncertainty.”
12. “Most people aren’t looking far out they’re looking close in.”
13. “Misinformation is inaccurate information.”
14. “Disinformation is believed misinformation.”
15. “Hope is not a strategy.”
16. “You’re either a reactor or an anticipator.”
17. “Take your biggest problem and skip it.”
18. “Most of the things that are holding you back right now can be found by looking in the mirror in the morning.”
19. “The cost of the “no” always exceeds the cost of the “yes”.”
20. “I want to look for, as a leader, any opportunity to elevate trust.”
21. “You’ve got to do your fact checking.”
22. “As a leader you need to make sure you are doing fact checking before you share things.”
23. “Right now, there is more opportunity than there has ever been on the planet earth.”
24. “You’re either going to be a disruptor or the disrupted, there is no middle.”
25. “You can only coast down hill, and there is a bottom.”
26. “Its not the tool. Its how you use it.”
27. “If you’re not shaping your future, someone else is shaping it for you.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The Anticipatory Organization” by Daniel Burrus: https://amzn.to/30uYBah
“The Little Engine That Could” by Watty Piper: https://amzn.to/3v8a3qD

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show we have a very special guest today and he’s not just one of the world’s leading futurists, he’s a friend. He’s been


David Horsager: He’s been a researcher. He’s been a known thought leader. I’m going to read just a little bit about him.


David Horsager: World’s one of the world’s leading futurists on global trends and innovation. These New York Times bestseller. He’s written seven books, we’re going to get into a couple of his books today and some thoughts behind that he’s


David Horsager: Been around the world as a thought leader and really futurist I think we think about this. His name is Dan Burrus and first of all just a welcome Dan. Thanks for being here.


Daniel Burrus: Thank you for having me on. Really appreciate it.


David Horsager: Well, we’ve talked research, I can still remember one of our drives after both speaking at an event. And one of our drives to the airport talking about


David Horsager: Our basis for what we do and why we believe in it. But, you know, looking at you a futurist and I remember back in even the 80s, you were one of the only futurist that correctly made


David Horsager: 20 or so claims that actually all came true in technology. So


David Horsager: Even with a futures. Let’s go back before going forward. Tell me about that. And then I’ve got a couple other thoughts backward. Before we get to some of the newest trends. We want to hear from you today show is going to be packed.


David Horsager: With some great stuff. I know that just because I know one Dan


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, we can research this birth research, which is wow 37 years old now. Holy cow.


Daniel Burrus: That was the I’ve started six companies over the years. This is my core company. The other ones like so and I spent a year doing research before ever starting it researching all areas of


Daniel Burrus: biology, chemistry, physics technology because that was what I taught in my early days I taught biology and physics.


Daniel Burrus: So I did the research came up with my methodologies and then launched with my 20 core technologies that would drive economic value creation going forward. And if you look at that initial list, which was 1983


Daniel Burrus: You would say AI genetic engineering digital technology fiber optics. I mean, if you look at the list. It’s still a bit


Daniel Burrus: And even nanotechnology was on that 83 but that’s because I use the scientific approach to doing it. And I actually, this is an interesting thing. I use biology to help me do it because in biology, there is


Daniel Burrus: A way of categorizing things so that, you know, for example, whether you saw an animal you would never seen in your life before you would know if it would


Daniel Burrus: Have a live birth or again or lay an egg, if you paid attention elementary school. Well, that’s because of what you learned in biology when I applied that to emerging technology.


Daniel Burrus: So that you could make sense out of it. And again, I’ve been researching all the way along. I’m not a one guy company and that sweat seven books. And I’ve written


Daniel Burrus: An article a week for years or decades, a lot of writing. And I think the reason I’ve got a track record for being right about where things are going is number one, I leave out the parts I can be wrong about


Daniel Burrus: I focus on what I know I can be right about and that’s part of what I


Daniel Burrus: Teach and, secondly, and I think this is true for you too. So, I want to say this for both of us. I think we both now I’ll speak for me. But I think you’ll chime in.


Daniel Burrus: I was lucky I found out why I was good on the planet. And that is, I’m here to teach. So I can’t help myself. So instead of me just doing it and loading you all be amazed.


Daniel Burrus: I’m excited about being on the show and writing books and articles, because I’m there to help others learn how to do it, that’s what excites me


David Horsager: Well, that’s what excites you, but one thing I know about you is you’re not just a teacher to teach. We know lots of speakers that have written a book that I’ve never read one practically right


David Horsager: But you actually are a learner, which makes you a great teacher, I think.


Daniel Burrus: And that’s the same word. Yeah.


Daniel Burrus: Right, right.


Daniel Burrus: You know, you learn


Daniel Burrus: Actually, the act of teaching is learning because you’re learning things as you teach it.


David Horsager: Right. Yeah. One of the best ways I tell the kids. Hey, you. Number two kids teach this to number three kid because


David Horsager: You’ll learn by teaching right and then when they’ve got


David Horsager: You know this. I’m going to jump around here because I know you and we’re going to jump around a little bit, but I think this this just touches on your idea that you often use heart trends certainties. I think is unique about you.


David Horsager: To accelerate innovation results. And I think that something interesting is, you’ve really kind of differentiated hard trend to soft trend. Tell us about that.


Daniel Burrus: Yeah. And again, this is 37 years of research and and i look instead of me saying, look, I’m the only guy with the right trends. Everyone else is wrong. I didn’t do that.


Daniel Burrus: What I did is I found a way of taking all trends and putting him to one of two pots, so that you could make sense out of them, because most of the time. People don’t pay a lot of attention to trends because they may or may not happen.


Daniel Burrus: And let’s face it, you can’t predict the future is a general thought which is not correct. But that’s what they think.


Daniel Burrus: So what I found is that all trends are either hard trends, based on what I call a future fact that will happen. The key is, it cannot be changed.


Daniel Burrus: Or it is a sub trend based on an assumption about the future that may or may not happen. It doesn’t say it won’t happen. But it really changes how you look at risk and driving innovation.


So give


Daniel Burrus: You, I’ll give you a couple of examples, but let me just kind of


Daniel Burrus: You know, we have a couple of other concepts. A second key related concept that I’ve helped people understand is that a trend by itself is an academic I’m bored. You’re bored.


Daniel Burrus: When you attach a trend to an actionable opportunity it bursts into life. So a hard trend. What does it do it lets you see disruptions before they disrupt


Daniel Burrus: Allowing you then to have a choice to be either the disrupt door or the disrupt it because it’s going to happen anyway.


Daniel Burrus: At all. And the other type of so the opportunity is then I can see problems before I have them so I can pre solve them instead of letting them play out. Let’s face it. How many times have people said, I knew that would happen. And I would say, Why did you let it


Daniel Burrus: And then, and then there are the soft trends which may or may not happen, and the beautiful opportunity of a soft trend is


Daniel Burrus: If you don’t like it, you can change it and a quick example now. All right. Let’s take health care costs in the United States over the last 10 years


Daniel Burrus: Been going up, up, up, up, up. By the way, that’s a trend. Now if you think it’s a hard trend unstoppable you spend all of your time trying to figure out, how are we going to pay for it as it gets worse as the baby boomers get older.


Daniel Burrus: But if you realize, actually that’s a soft trend. You can change it if you want to. And then you start looking at technology, like for example blockchain.


Daniel Burrus: Could be used to take our health care system in the US, which is got very low trust very low transparency.


Daniel Burrus: That that aspirin and actually cost you 22 bucks if you knew that your dad your spouse, bring it


Daniel Burrus: Up but and if we use blockchain. You could have transparency higher trust more security. And by the way, cost would go down.


Daniel Burrus: Now, it could give you other ways we could use technology to do that. And by the way, there is a startup that’s doing that with blockchain with 100 million startup and money. So I think there’s some bets placed on that one already.


Daniel Burrus: But the point is, if you don’t like it, you can change it. So let’s say that you’re in the restaurant business right now right now with Coke.


Daniel Burrus: And sales quick whoa down your luck. Yeah. Especially if you’re in your California or something because I’m here in San Diego right now.


Daniel Burrus: And you’re saying well wow it’s just going to keep going down. We got to figure out how we’re going to write that out. However, going down is is suffering, you could do something about that.


Daniel Burrus: And the restaurant owners that I’ve talked to and got them into doing takeout and really upping their game on on home deliveries and things like that. I’ve actually gone the other direction.


Daniel Burrus: So, so I’ve trends don’t like them. You can change it. I like that hard trends. You can see problems before they happen and pre solve them. You can see disruptions. But, or they disrupt giving you amazing opportunities.


David Horsager: So what are a couple more hard trends. I see those soft trends that we can change. And that’s what we love because


David Horsager: Actually, we can think they’re hard, but it’s actually almost that people have to have a growth mindset for this right. It’s like, I gotta


David Horsager: See that I can actually change something for all the soft trends, instead of just saying it’s gonna be that way. But what about a hard trend. You can’t do anything about a couple more real examples.


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, exactly. There’s again. I like to take complexity and get it to a simplified form so that we can make use of it.


Daniel Burrus: And internalize it. So basically, there’s three categories of hard trends.


Daniel Burrus: Demographics for example there’s 68 million baby boomers. Now again, you’ve heard the ferry 78 million but 10,010 million have already died so you can’t count them.


Daniel Burrus: You know, they’re on the other end of the spectrum versus Gen Z who are, you know, growing and having kids.


Daniel Burrus: And, and, you know, they’re not going to get younger, they’re going to continue to age and we can predict a lot of problems and pre solve them. Or we can let them play out for example.


Daniel Burrus: A lot of people will be retiring in our organizations now and for sure and someone might say, and here’s a really good teaching moment. I’m going to take right now for everyone listening.


Daniel Burrus: So they might say, okay, the hard trend is people in our organization, they’re going to be a lot of leaders retiring and they’re going to be taking their knowledge and wisdom with them.


Daniel Burrus: Well, now here’s the interesting thing. They stated a hard Trent, and to subtract


Daniel Burrus: Because when you hear the word and or there’s a comma in a trend statement he probably got a hard and soft and it probably starts with the heart and enjoy the soft


Daniel Burrus: So let me just give you the example, going back to that there’s a lot of people and organizations are going to be retiring.


Daniel Burrus: Our trend guarantee that’s going to happen. They’re going to take their knowledge and wisdom with them. You could do something about that through mentoring, creating a knowledge base, creating a wisdom base.


Daniel Burrus: Or you could let them leave with that knowledge and wisdom is so knowing the difference makes all the different so demographics is one and I could get into that whole thing. But there’s another one. This will shock people government regulation.


Daniel Burrus: government regulation because when we have a law put into place. There’s a whole bunch of opportunities Ilan musk every business. He started since PayPal. He has received


Daniel Burrus: Hundreds of millions of dollars, x i battered it up 4.2 billion so far from the government because instead of looking at a regulation or a law and getting bummed out which most of us do.


Daniel Burrus: One of the things I teach in my anticipatory leader system is that opposites works better. So instead of looking at all the things you don’t like about that law.


Daniel Burrus: go the opposite. Look at what you do, like, and you might find some amazing opportunities, by the way, you might say, well, you can’t predict the future of regulation.


Daniel Burrus: I would say yes, you can. You just can’t predict it all the things I don’t know. Don’t empower me, I would like to know the things I do know for example, let me ask our viewers and listeners right now. Do you think they’re going to be is going to be more regulation around cyber security.


Daniel Burrus: Well, yeah, why because it’s unheard transit play yet Democrats and Republicans can’t ignore, but there are some other things that we could debate. So I think the see the power of a hard trend.


Daniel Burrus: And I’m going to give you the third one in a second.


Daniel Burrus: But the power of a hard trend is it gives you certainty in a world filled with uncertainty and strategy based on uncertainty has high risk strategy based on certainty has low risk and high reward. So the third category like to fulfill my promise here is technology.


Daniel Burrus: I trust. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Technology and technology is literally changing how we live, work and play. It’s transformative. Are we going to be putting more in the cloud. Whoa, yeah.


Daniel Burrus: And if you don’t like AI will it go away. No. So, and so we know a lot and five after five g is that it


Daniel Burrus: No, that’d be some code 60 I would like seven g and if you follow some of the things I’ve taught you can even see the timeframes of when they’ll come out because I’ve been accurate on that since one g


Daniel Burrus: And there’s a way to do that. So the, the key again is you have those three categories demographics, you have regulations and you have technology, all of those give you amazing opportunities to see the future and to develop you know that the game changing opportunities.


David Horsager: So, you know, you wrote and talk a lot about, oh, no. Just read something here about the anticipatory organization, your book because


David Horsager: co founder of Fast Company Alan Webber said if you’re in business and you’re not thinking about disruption, you’re not paying attention.


David Horsager: And if you haven’t read the anticipatory organization. You haven’t learned how to think about and get ahead of the disruption disruption is headed your way read this book.


David Horsager: Now this was written before co but this pandemic. How do you anticipate these kind of things. We had a pandemic. A lot of people did not anticipate. But what. What say you about this in conjunction with the anticipatory organization and you’re


Daniel Burrus: Absolutely. Well, a couple of things. Number one, that’s called they often call it a black swan event.


Daniel Burrus: And they call it a black swan because supposedly it comes out of nowhere, but actually black swans never come out of nowhere.


Daniel Burrus: Imagine right now in your mind large a large lake and near you are all bunch of white Swanson ducks and geese, but the black swans are on the other shore.


Daniel Burrus: You’re probably not even looking at those you’re looking at all the ones that are cool real near you, because most people aren’t looking far out there looking clothes in


Daniel Burrus: The black and yellow, black swan is swimming your way, but you don’t see it yet. You don’t see it until it’s all of a sudden, it’s right there. Holy cow. There’s a black swan here.


Daniel Burrus: So in December, our satellites. And by the way, I am a advisor to the joint chiefs and I do. I’m on the futures group of the Pentagon. And so I do have access to, and I can just say that


Daniel Burrus: We were able to see what was happening from the satellites in China. And what were you know the


Daniel Burrus: morgues and all the things that were taking place something was going on in January. It was known


Daniel Burrus: Started to talk about it, but not that much. In other words, it was there. We were not really looking far out. We weren’t looking at the other side of the lake, but not everybody some we’re looking at the other side of the lake.


Daniel Burrus: And if you are listening to my reports in March. I was talking about. We’re going to get a painful lesson an exponential because we knew back then that unchecked.


Daniel Burrus: A virus would spread double every three to four days, by the way it does that, unless you wear a mask and you do physical distancing and those kinds of things.


Daniel Burrus: So to go to trust and your wheelhouse.


Daniel Burrus: I the we have been in the information age and I’m not really talking in just a political way here. I’m really talking about technology.


Daniel Burrus: And that is we have entered, especially over the last five years or so, maybe even six increasingly the disinformation age. And I would say that misinformation is inaccurate information. This information I would define as believed misinformation.


Daniel Burrus: And that’s a lot of that has to do with AI. It has to do with the algorithms and Facebook and other social platforms.


Daniel Burrus: That are designed to get you engaged. And unfortunately, love and harmony. Don’t get us very engaged.


Daniel Burrus: But anger, fear hate that gets us coming back for more. So you get more of what you get and feeds you more and more and get you more engaged, although none of its vetted


Daniel Burrus: So is that a hard trend. We can’t stop is trust because I’m going to get right to the my opinion on trust right now because I know that’s your expertise. And by the way, thank you for doing what you’ve done by creating the institute


Daniel Burrus: And by bringing this important subject to to so many and that is


Daniel Burrus: Trust going down is indeed soft


Daniel Burrus: D didn’t know that mean it will continue to go down or yet surely can, but there’s something we could do about it. And that means you need some strategies, you need to have hope is not a strategy.


Daniel Burrus: So diminished trust is indeed a complete soft Trent highly likely unless some we do some things. And again, you might say, as a listener.


Daniel Burrus: I can’t control Facebook. I can’t control what different politicians say I can’t control it. And I would say


Daniel Burrus: All right, I don’t want to list the things I can’t control. I want a list of things I can control. I don’t want to list the things that were uncertain about how one was the things I’m certain about


Daniel Burrus: I don’t want to list of things I can’t do I want to list the things I can do. And that’s why


Daniel Burrus: David, I am just like you’ve got trust is the big thing you’re trying to help people to do until learn to work with again. Love that.


Daniel Burrus: I’m trying to get people to have an anticipatory mindset because that you can, you’re either a reactor or you’re an anticipated.


Daniel Burrus: And most people don’t realize that agility is a reactive strategy. The reason you’re Agile is you have to be able to move quickly when something is coming at you, agile athletes are, you know, that’s defense. It’s not offense.


Daniel Burrus: And I’m not putting down agility, you need to be agile. I didn’t say I could predict everything I said I leave out the parts that can be wrong about. There are a lot of things you can’t predict. Well, then you better be agile.


Daniel Burrus: But that’s only one side of the strategy coin. That’s the defense. But if you look at the last 20 years of Super Bowl winners. It’s been the offense teams have been the major winners.


Daniel Burrus: You need offense. That’s where anticipation comes in, anticipating so it’s not like get rid of agility.


Daniel Burrus: It’s like you really need to be able to work both sides of the court. Here I would like you to be anticipatory leaders.


Daniel Burrus: Not just reactionary or fast reactionary and most of us have found out with code and with so many things coming so fast, no matter how agile, you are. It hasn’t been helping that much, but those that have been anticipatory have actually done quite well.


David Horsager: Well, I’m going to recommend this book anticipatory organization that everybody, every leader every, every person, we need to start thinking this way but


David Horsager: Let’s get into a couple more tips that you can give from anticipatory organization as you teach anticipatory leadership anticipatory thinking. And this is a model that really


David Horsager: You know touches everything. And I would argue to be trusted long term, you’re going to have to be able to be an anticipatory leader. So that’s why I will align with this and believe in it, so much so.


David Horsager: Let’s, let’s jump in, you have a couple more takeaways. We can think of it to become more anticipatory and I want the only to buy the book, but


Daniel Burrus: Yes. Well, let me start with a something I’d like you all to do after this podcast. Alright, let’s get cut to the chase of what I’d like you to do.


Daniel Burrus: And I’d like you to consider blocking out one hour a week you know one hour a week is doable.


Daniel Burrus: And by the way, if you don’t put it in your calendar and market down on what happened why you’ll be putting out another fire, you’ll be crisis management.


Daniel Burrus: But this isn’t about crisis management. It’s about opportunity management and it’s about finding, certainly in a seemingly uncertain world.


Daniel Burrus: And in that hour, I’d like you to list the hard trends certain these you know will happen. Go for a pic from demographics, or pick from technology or even regulation again. You can find more on Barista calm. If you want to find out more about how to do it.


David Horsager: Say that right now. Oh, no, we’re going to talk about the trends in a minute. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But burst com will give you again I’m writing an article a week so you can go to be you R Us calm and


Daniel Burrus: Find blogs and or join, you know, I’ve got a web 1.3 million followers on LinkedIn. Join me there. So there’s plenty of ways of getting information about what that stuff is so


Daniel Burrus: Here’s what I’d like to do, I’d like you to make a list of things you are certain about what are the trends. Remember trend by itself has no value. I wanted to attach an opportunity attached to it.


Daniel Burrus: An opportunity that you can take action on and then you know it, you’ll get you’ll get a list and big list never get done.


Daniel Burrus: So I would like you to refine it down. Find the low hanging fruit. Something you can take action on pick one thing


Daniel Burrus: And take action on it and you will be amazed at what you will see. So there is a an actionable tip. I’ll give right now a strategy.


Daniel Burrus: And within the anticipatory model. I actually like in my anticipatory leader learning system, which I’m happy to say as an award winner.


Daniel Burrus: I’ve got 28 lessons in there and hard trends is one of 28 soft trends is one of 28 they are the foundation to it.


Daniel Burrus: But as I mentioned a little earlier opposites work better is one of those, because how do you be more innovative people saying, I want you to be creative and well how do I do that, you need some tools. For example, one of the things that I teach is take your biggest problem and skip it.


David Horsager: I was gonna ask about that next.


Daniel Burrus: And I use skip it up, man. I use it all the time, and it is so powerful as it’s amazing. So there are two elements to it very quickly.


Daniel Burrus: One element is skipping it all together and the other words you think you need to do it. But that’s an assumption. Yeah. Is that a future fact


Daniel Burrus: You’re, you know, I need an office. I need a stack. I need funding. I can’t start a business without investors.


Daniel Burrus: Who have started six companies five are profitable. The first year for national leaders in the first year. One of them was an aviation.


Daniel Burrus: And 37 national locations in the first year and I never had any investors. Let’s face it, I started out teaching. I didn’t even have any money. So there are ways of doing it. So if you assume you need all that


Daniel Burrus: That is not a future fact that’s an assumption and maybe that’s holding you back. Actually, most of the things that are holding you back right now can be found by looking in the mirror in the morning.


Daniel Burrus: You are holding you back. Most people would say, money is my biggest problem. And I would say, Well, the reason. Money is your biggest problem and probably always says your biggest problem.


Daniel Burrus: Is because that’s not your problem. It’s dead. What is, what is the real problem and it may be, if you’re trying to get money for me and I’m the CFO and you want to fund your project.


Daniel Burrus: And as a CFO. I’m trying to say no because I’m trying to keep the company money, you haven’t used certainty.


Daniel Burrus: To help you to sell your idea.


Daniel Burrus: You haven’t said, here are some things, some future facts that we know. And by the way, there’s a way to get them to agree with you immediately because you learn to instead of giving your opinion you learn to speak and future facts very powerful.


Daniel Burrus: And when you’re speaking in future facts, by the way, that’s a way you can get people to trust you more because you’re not giving your opinion.


Daniel Burrus: And then you’re saying what I want the money for is a disruption that I know will happen. Here’s why future facts and if we don’t do something someone else will.


Daniel Burrus: What’s the downside and then you get into the cost of what’s the real cost of the know here when we know it’s a future fact


Daniel Burrus: And the cost of the now always exceeds the cost of the yes because again, financial people have all been they all know that saying yes costs money, saying no costs nothing


Daniel Burrus: We need to reverse that operations work better. Getting back to skip it. Another element of skip it is whatever problem you’ve got, that’s not it. There’s another one. You’re not solving the right one.


Daniel Burrus: So the for a simple example, my


Daniel Burrus: Niece Halle she’s got her job and she can’t seem to save money.


Daniel Burrus: She called me the other day and said Uncle van. I can’t save any money. I’m really trying hard and she knows it’s possible because her older sister Audrey, can save money like crazy, but how again.


Daniel Burrus: And and really trying. Let’s say you’re working on the wrong problem or you should work on how you spend money instead


Daniel Burrus: If she was working to help she say she should have done the opposite and work and how she spent so is your problem really your problem or is there another one.


Daniel Burrus: And in I’ve been good at solving impossible problems because I find what the real problem is, or I help people skip it all together.


Daniel Burrus: I have always had a problem with spelling. How can I write seven books and thousands of articles I skipped that I have somebody checked me


Daniel Burrus: I love


David Horsager: I love it. Well, this is a, you know, good place. I want to go backwards to go forward and I wrote down okay because we’re going to pull back to trust here then.


David Horsager: Everybody listening. You’re gonna love this. You’re going to get some future tech trends that Dan has noticed and where you can find all those are going to touch on those. But before we do


David Horsager: You know everything. We talked about is trust as the leading indicator. It’s never a leadership issue. It’s always a trust issue number sales issue a diversity issue and innovation issue. It’s never even a


David Horsager: You know, a marketing issue. The only way to amplify marketing messages increase trust in the message. The only way to deal with diversity in a way that doesn’t people against each other’s increase trust we


David Horsager: We have to deal with a trust issue. But you said something about trust back before I was doing even my really a graduate research 1989 you were. I got a quote on you.


David Horsager: Hope. I’m not going on left field here. Trust is the glue that holds the net enabled knowledge economy together, speak to that, if you will.


Daniel Burrus: Yeah. And by the way, still true. So how do you get people when I started working in the the web. Now the internet actually been around for a long time that was around before I started in 1983


Daniel Burrus: Universities primarily used it. So the internet itself is not new. The web is and the ability to do web pages and all that stuff. That’s what broke it loose and made it go crazy.


Daniel Burrus: So when we started looking at e commerce in the beginning. And I started working with banks and credit card companies and Visa, MasterCard, how do we get people to actually buy online.


Daniel Burrus: And it was easy. It’s about trust. And one of the ways that you can get people to trust because how do you get them to trust going on line number. This is back in the early 90s.


Daniel Burrus: And the answer was you guarantee that they won’t lose money if it turns out to be something fake


Daniel Burrus: In other words, as a credit card holder. If you using your credit card number to buy something and it turns out to be legitimate how cover it.


Daniel Burrus: They did that back then got people to start purchasing online, they gave us trust in that way. So,


Daniel Burrus: Still today. Yeah, whether it’s in an organization, whether it is getting advice, whether it is purchasing online, whether it’s on Amazon, or anything else. I mean, how do you know you’re going to get it delivered


Daniel Burrus: How are you going to know it’s okay by the way someone that says you we have a return policy that elevates trust we have no return policy that decreases trust.


Daniel Burrus: So what I want to do, and my to make this strategic, I would say, I want to look for as a leader any opportunity to elevate trust.


Daniel Burrus: Whether it’s within a person because it’s all about people in this technology world. It’s still a human world. It’s still all about trust.


Daniel Burrus: If it’s about getting people to go to my restaurant as the pandemic lips and it will. How do I get them to come back or go into my retail facility, and that is, I got to make sure they trust, they’re going to get sick coming in.


David Horsager: So what can we do in this coming back from Panda and what can people do to increase trust you get leave listed a few ideas, but what do you think they can do in the new economy in this new future world, what are people going to need to do differently.


Daniel Burrus: Well, one of the things, if you’re in retail and by the way we think retail is dead, and that would say no, it just doesn’t actually I think the good old days or brick and mortar retailer ahead of us, but they just don’t look like the days behind us.


Daniel Burrus: Actually that was kind of boring. That’s why they were having trouble in the first place they hadn’t really paid much attention to the customer experience. They didn’t use technology to put some pizzazz into it as well as empower their people.


Daniel Burrus: With knowledge and perhaps some augmented reality glasses that can give them information to give you when you’re asking me a question. I actually have an answer.


Daniel Burrus: Let’s face it, when you try to buy a car usually know more about the car than the person selling you the car. So no wonder they had trouble. So I think


Daniel Burrus: What we need is high, trust and high trust in when it comes to facilities and going into places is we’re probably going to have certified trust by doing like downs and doing cleanings and


Daniel Burrus: Just like when you go into a grocery store, you have more trust because of that plastic that’s going between you and the person behind and they put lines so that you have to stay apart from people and


Daniel Burrus: You know that all elevates trust and what I think will happen. And this is not a hard trend, but I think it’s highly likely and I have not shared this with anybody yet I’m about to start doing that, I’m going to give you a scoop here.


David Horsager: All right inside scoop.


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, how do you get people to get vaccinated because there’s a lot of distrust about that a lot of bad information about the vaccines and someone out there.


Daniel Burrus: And a lot of fear and a lot of people saying I’m not doing that. And so how do you get people to get vaccinated when there’s all of that. And you can’t really make them.


Daniel Burrus: And well the answer is if you notice when people get back center. They’re giving us getting an official card.


Daniel Burrus: Not only to help them go back to get the second vaccination, but it shows, they’ve been vaccinated


Daniel Burrus: And that will also end up as part of your smartphone with facial ID and fingerprint as well. Not yet. You’ll see it will. And so if you want to go to a baseball game football game basketball game you want to go to a concert where you got to do and show your you got your, your shot.


Daniel Burrus: If you don’t, you don’t get in


Daniel Burrus: Well, that will motivate a lot of people


David Horsager: To get


Daniel Burrus: To get there. Well, I’m just telling you


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, you’re gonna start seeing that thing happen because


Daniel Burrus: We need to get at least 80% of the people vaccinated to get enough so that this isn’t going crazy.


Daniel Burrus: Because we could have said, I don’t want the polio shot. We could have said, I don’t want the mumps and measles. We could have said no to a whole bunch of things and you and I may not have ever been born


Daniel Burrus: But may not be around and we still have the ability to say no. But in the age of of disinformation that we’re in now.


Daniel Burrus: There’s going to be other ways of motivating him to do that. Let me give you one last little thing a personal one. I’ll give you I have a college professor friend of mine that is still around. Thankfully, great guy.


Daniel Burrus: And he’s in his late 80s. He and his wife, and they were telling me about two weeks ago that in their retirement community, they’re going to be able to get the shot by the end of the year and they were excited about that because he’s a PhD. He knows what’s going on, but then his


Daniel Burrus: His daughter’s kid who happens to be 28 so she’s not a kid really


Daniel Burrus: Sent him a text saying the CDC just shared all this bad stuff about it and said that came from the CDC and shared this document. He. Luckily, called me and said, boy. Now I’m worried about it. And I said, Well, I’ve never heard the CDC say all that. Can you ask your


Daniel Burrus: Ask her where she got her information. And she said, well, we got it from the CDC and so I asked her again.


Daniel Burrus: And it will actually a friend of mine told me it was from the CDC well as for their friend got it anyway turned off, you got it from the Internet and the CDC never said that. Well, my point is he and his wife are about to not get the shot out of fear. Yeah. And that might have killed him.


Daniel Burrus: He’s in. Hey, it’s almost 90 he’s in that range. So, you know, this can be a very bad thing. So again, I can’t


Daniel Burrus: I’m not trying to here in my tell you what to do. I am saying we need to elevate trust and we need to rely on


Daniel Burrus: Going back to my methodology. There are future facts. So we have facts and we have assumptions.


Daniel Burrus: And there’s a whole science at two assumptions.


Daniel Burrus: As well as future facts. Again, that’s part of what I teach, but I’m also giving you a heads up for David for your work and that is assumptions are unbelievable. Because is that, for example, one of the things that I teach is there’s more than one kind of assumption.


Daniel Burrus: And I like to make things simple. So people remember and I’m got a theme here, I call them hard assumptions versus soft assumptions.


Daniel Burrus: So a soft assumption is either based on your past what you’ve always known by the way they may not be true today. But you’ve always it’s always been good so far.


Daniel Burrus: And because remember technology changes reality, there may be a new reality. Now, I mean a new some new facts.


Daniel Burrus: For example, you can’t trust the internet over anything. Well, I can tell you right now the the


Daniel Burrus: Military is realized actually can get more trust by getting in there with the right level of security, then you can using the old system so


Daniel Burrus: So hard assumption is based, you did your research. So my friend he luckily reached out to me because he didn’t do his research, he was taking it from someone who heard something who heard something.


Daniel Burrus: But from a trusted source.


Daniel Burrus: You know, that was you know his daughters good is that trusted source, but on the other end.


Daniel Burrus: You got to do your fact check. So a soft assumption is, it’s from a person from a person from a trusted person, but you haven’t done some extra checking


Daniel Burrus: Today, with the internet being what it is, I’m just saying. Check your facts and I have a responsibility as you do because I give


Daniel Burrus: You know, I give speeches I do consulting. I work with leaders all over the world trying to help them out. And I can tell you right now, I buy Drupal and quadruple check again everything I’m sharing because it’s important


Daniel Burrus: And I’m a researcher, so I know the power of that. So I’m just saying for all of you.


Daniel Burrus: Double and triple and quadruple check. So if it’s an assumption it least bring it up to the heart assumption and maybe you’ll find there are some things, but you’ll find this there’s actually some future facts to education. Elia


David Horsager: Well, I think people and people not just


David Horsager: The behind the assumptions they have certain things they want to be true. And so that can motivate him finding facts that align with that desire without being any more true


Daniel Burrus: Well, yeah, there’s been some actual some recent studies, meaning within the last several months. So we’re pretty wide scale to find out.


Daniel Burrus: Where is a lot of the disinformation coming from and it’s from people that are their primary news sources, the Internet and the internet doesn’t affect check


Daniel Burrus: Well, it has it a kind, but you know, it’s not like where you’ve got to make sure your sources are good before you put it out there. Um,


Daniel Burrus: No accountability. Yeah, there’s no there’s no accountability and and of course it can be weaponized


Daniel Burrus: And so you’ve got to be careful. So I think in this age of of disinformation as a leader you need to do, make sure you are doing fact checking as a leader before you share things with your people.


Daniel Burrus: So that you can have the confidence to make that statement and not have to come back and bite you.


David Horsager: We’ve talked about this, some but one last question on the core of your work before we get into my final lightning round and and getting to your tech trends that I’m super excited about. But, you know,


David Horsager: You’ve touched on this, but is there anything else you would say, because I think people are finding this this this disruption is is happening. Obviously it’s happened over the last year, but


David Horsager: The thing is disruptions happening ahead. It’s going to happen in a year. It’s going to happen in five years. It’s gonna happen to


David Horsager: Pandemic will be gone. We’re still going to deal with disruption. So you have some thoughts around turning disruption, you thought was outside your control into


David Horsager: Being inside your control. We touched on that. And partly, it’s the mindset of seeing that it’s inside your control. But is there anything else you would just mention about kind of dealing with disruption.


David Horsager: In a proactively


Daniel Burrus: Absolutely. Well, first of all, just a quick comment on the trend card and we’ll get more into that in a minute. But I want to touch on it, and that is that actually have an E book coming out on this and I’ve already been speaking on it, but the pandemic has accelerated.


Daniel Burrus: A most of the technology trends that I’ve been sharing with people for a long time.


Daniel Burrus: e commerce is an accelerated easily 10 years why. Well, we were locked down, of course. But actually, I’ve got 16


Daniel Burrus: Of the 25 hard trends that we’ll talk about in a minute that have been accelerated anywhere between five and 10 years in just a few months, by the way, why did they get accelerated.


Daniel Burrus: And the answer is because we were forced to change. You see organizations are run by humans and humans don’t like the change


Daniel Burrus: We want to change only after a while, a pandemic forced us to change it forced us to lock down it forced us to do homeschooling it forced us to change.


Daniel Burrus: And we were forced to go digital at in new ways. So that forced to change is what caused the pandemic acceleration of these trends and by the way, when trends are accelerated.


Daniel Burrus: Not just months but years in a short amount of time what happened the opportunities have been accelerated as well.


Daniel Burrus: I Lo, I just wanted to make sure that you realize right now. I’m telling you there’s more opportunity than there’s ever been on the planet Earth.


Daniel Burrus: And you use the correct word. A few minutes ago. David, and that is, it’s all about mindset and you’ve got to have your mindset, right, and then now to address the word disruption.


Daniel Burrus: I actually want every one of our viewers and listeners to become what I call positive disruptors. Here’s what I mean by that.


Daniel Burrus: Does Jeff Bezos CEO of Amazon see disruption is negative. Now it’s all the people he’s disrupting


Daniel Burrus: The. See, you’re either going to be a disrupt door or the disrupted. There is no middle there’s no middle just like you’re either going to be more relevant or less relevant


Daniel Burrus: There is no middle and some people are might be coasting let’s just remember you can only coast down hill and there is a bottom


Daniel Burrus: Okay cover that. So, so here’s what I want you to do with hard trends. You can see the disruptions before they disrupt well in advance and i mean you know I got what 37 years of showing all of those. I mean, if you go back. Remember my techno trends book that came out in 93


Daniel Burrus: Way bank.


Daniel Burrus: Brief, yeah. I mean, look, there’s a little part in chapter three that says blockbuster is busted. And if you read about it I described Netflix and but accurate timeframes on it.


Daniel Burrus: And when that book came out, I was speaking at the American Booksellers Association. It’s a different name today, but there were 10,000 booksellers. This was two years before Amazon was launched.


Daniel Burrus: And I said in two years OBO virtual bookstore. Now again I couldn’t say it would be called Amazon. You gotta leave out the parts you can be wrong about. But I can say what happened what because I could see the tools were there and


Daniel Burrus: If the tools are there to do it, someone’s going to do it.


David Horsager: And you, maybe you should


Daniel Burrus: Happen somebody else.


Daniel Burrus: Somebody is going to do that. So here’s what the phrase on, I want you to be a positive disrupter creating the transformations that need to happen.


Daniel Burrus: To create a better future for your family for yourselves for your employees and for your business and increase your relevancy and your growth. So rather than be the disrupted.


Daniel Burrus: Which I don’t think is a good option, although I would like you to have a choice. I want you all to become positive disruptors, and make it better.


David Horsager: Perfect. We got to get to those trends. Let’s hear about those trends before we wrap up the day and then we’re going to at least we’re going to touch on them. And then we’re going to show people where to find them. Dan, I am so excited about this. You’ve got 20 tech trends.


Daniel Burrus: Actually, I got


Daniel Burrus: 2525 five tech trends and you can get that list by the way of going to burst VU R Us that com forward slash see the future.


David Horsager: See the future and do those will be in the show notes at trusted leader show com


David Horsager: www.burris.com slash see the future. It’ll all be right there in the show notes. And we want you to go there. This can be fun. Give us a little overview of those for just two minutes.


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, well, you know, the, the key is, we might look at AI, for example.


Daniel Burrus: And there is AI, but there’s machine learning, which is another category within that, there’s a number of categories and we think what’s going to take all the jobs or whatever.


Daniel Burrus: But one of the trends that I talked about is augmentation. There’s physical augmentation and there’s


Daniel Burrus: Thought or cognitive augmentation. So how we’re going to use AI going forward. And these are hard trends, you’re not going to stop them. But you can shape them to your advantage is that AI is going to


Daniel Burrus: Be used. Let’s give you an example of an oncologist right now AI knows more about analogy than any living on colleges, because it’s scoured all of the material, it’s learned all this stuff, it has in it in that AI everything about on college


Daniel Burrus: So if you knew someone who had cancer and would you want and they needed and colleges. So I’ll give you three choices are really great oncologist.


Daniel Burrus: Just AI or a on colleges who has access to AI and can use augmented thinking


Daniel Burrus: To treat that human that’s augmented thinking, by the way, another form of physical augmentation is to put on an exoskeleton as a 90 pound nurse and be able to lift a 200 pound person into a bed, which has already happened.


Daniel Burrus: So there’s physical augmentation and there’s cognitive back augmentation. That’s one of 25 and then I talked about how that can how that’s accelerating and how you can make use of the different industries, that’s only one of 25 and that’s a big one.


David Horsager: That’s a big one.


Daniel Burrus: There. Oh, whoa, giant take away


David Horsager: And you know what, with every one of those 25


David Horsager: There is an opportunity. So everybody needs to go there. Everybody’s need to look at the those we need to have you back and go through each of those, but that is absolutely fascinating. So


David Horsager: Here we go, let’s get to the quick fire a little lightning round, and this has been amazing. You have so much to offer. And I know everybody like to hear more from you. But let’s get to it.


David Horsager: The from the greatest futurist in the world. And my friend, Dan, what’s your favorite book or resource.


Daniel Burrus: Well, you know, somebody asked me that, you know, what was the book that had the biggest impact on for me and and I told him the Absolute Truth. It was the little engine that could


Daniel Burrus: It was a little I read when I was a little kid, and the little engine that could as I think I can. I think I can. Until I know I can. I know I can you know what you are. It’s the mirror. Look in the mirror, you’ll see


Daniel Burrus: The thing that that impacts you and that keeps you from and most of my reading is what most people don’t read


Daniel Burrus: You know I’m reading research I’m reading global research and innovations and our bad. I mean, to me that’s candy.


Daniel Burrus: And so I do. That’s my fun reading and I also like to read like the Asian Wall Street Journal


Daniel Burrus: The London Financial Times because we live in a big world. I like to read research on of India and other things. So I don’t read what most people read because I like to tell people what they haven’t heard before.


David Horsager: Love it.


David Horsager: Anything you can’t live without. Dan, what’s something you can’t live without get to know you personally here.


Daniel Burrus: Oh, I can’t live without love. I can’t live without friends and family. I can’t live without community.


Daniel Burrus: You know those are really, really, that the, you know, the key to all of us and to humanity.


Daniel Burrus: And I think during these times of code, what I’ve told people that are struggling with it and depressed about it and bummed out about it is


Daniel Burrus: They’re focusing too much on them. That’s why they’re bummed out. But if they focus on helping others, they’ll find themselves being uplifted


Daniel Burrus: That’s, you know, that’s a key. So I think, but from another. If you go away from that one thing that’s been a part of my life since I was in elementary school is music


Daniel Burrus: I play it doesn’t instruments, I put myself through college playing lead guitar in Iraq, man. So I play every day. I play different many, many instruments. I got a flute right over there. I


David Horsager: I see the guitar behind you. Yeah, I got a guitar back here. I got another one over there.


Daniel Burrus: So you know I so music guy and playing is really been a, an important part of my life.


David Horsager: You know one thing back to the community piece also is just and


David Horsager: We say it all the time here. And I think it’s a quote early on in my, in my next book coming out trusted leader that if you’re doing leadership alone, you’re doing it wrong.


David Horsager: And you know, we see so many people at the top alone and they’re not leading well because of that, and we need each other. We need community. And even though we want to know tech trends and we want to


David Horsager: See a, you know, look at the future. It all comes back to people and relationships and trust and and community. And so I love that, especially


Daniel Burrus: tag on what you just said. That’s really important.


Daniel Burrus: The same tool that could give you cancer could cure your cancer because a lot of people think that technology is evil. Oh no, they think that is either high touch or high tech and I would say that’s that you can bring them together perfectly or leave them apart.


Daniel Burrus: So it’s not the tool. It’s how you use it.


Daniel Burrus: What I would like us to do is to use these tools to build a more connected and more human, and more enlightened future


Daniel Burrus: You’re seeing. I’m not so excited about predicting the future is I am excited about empowering people to actively shape a positive future because if you’re not shaping your future someone else’s shaping it for you. Think about that.


David Horsager: That’s a perfect ending piece of advice, but we we got to get to our final question.


Daniel Burrus: Okay. There’s another one. All right, you got it.


David Horsager: Yeah, I mean that I love that final, final is this, you know, it’s a trusted leader show


David Horsager: Who’s the leader you trust and why


Daniel Burrus: Oh,


Daniel Burrus: I think I trust. There’s a lot of people I trust it different, at different levels and different things, but


Daniel Burrus: And you’re talking about a living leader today.


David Horsager: It for anyone, you’d like


David Horsager: You take it however you’d like


Daniel Burrus: Yeah, well, I think.


Daniel Burrus: People that are have trust is earned through honesty, integrity, delivering on promises and and those types of things and people that try to not waver from that and don’t get sucked into the


Daniel Burrus: Politics and all of those kinds of things. And just tell you, you know, give you the, you know, here’s the facts as we know them. And if there’s some new facts will give you those suits.


Daniel Burrus: And I do think that our medical community has been doing a pretty good job of trying to tell us the you know the hospitals are indeed full. It’s not a joke.


Daniel Burrus: And and this isn’t either a real virus. We have to do some things to to protect ourselves from it and and so, you know, I trust the science. I trust the technology and address the people that are trying to separate opinion from fact


Daniel Burrus: And because opinions are different.


Daniel Burrus: You know the news shows tend to give us more opinion, then in fact nowadays, unfortunately, and I’m talking about all


David Horsager: Yeah, that’s what gets you eyeballs.


David Horsager: Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, we could do a whole lot more here. And, Dan, there’s for so many reasons I trust you. You’ve been an advisor to so many


David Horsager: Global governments and also just to me. So I thank you for that I thank you for your friendship. I thank you for the work you’re doing to be a positive disruptors are so many takeaways here future facts and opposites work better and


David Horsager: Hard versus soft so many things you can learn from that, from Dan go to birth.com go get the trends at birth comm slash see the future and you know it’s been a treat to be here.


David Horsager: We want you to keep building trust and, you know, as we said on the farm growing up.


David Horsager: Now you got to do the work that pile doesn’t shovel itself the bales don’t bail themselves. You gotta go do the work and trust takes work. Being a positive disrupter takes work.


David Horsager: Be a positive dose rupture that builds trust. And I think that’d be a home run for all of us. So I’m going to seek to do it. Thanks for inspiring us and we’ll see you next time on the trusted leader show.

Ep. 15: Dr. Paul Jenkins on The 5 Steps to Pathological Positivity

In this episode, David sits down with Dr. Paul Jenkins, Positive Psychologist, speaker, and podcast host, to discuss the 5 steps to pathological positivity.

Dr. Paul’s Bio:
Dr. Paul is a Positive Psychologist who has left the traditional psychology model to help individuals and companies take the wheel and Live On Purpose. Dr. Paul helps to illuminate the obvious, which isn’t always noticed, to clear obstacles out of the way. Dr. Paul is Pathologically Positive, (the name of his first book), a speaker, podcast host and his YouTube Channel, Live On Purpose TV, has over 200K subscribers.

Dr. Paul’s Links:
Website: https://www.drpauljenkins.com/
Get your FREE digital copy of “Portable Positivity” by Dr. Paul: https://drpauljenkins.info/portablepositivity
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drpauljenkins/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrPaulJenkins
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PathologicalPositivityBook
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drpauljenkins/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiTdG02P4T9qa6gd3VKjbJA

Key Quotes:
1. “Until you see it as a choice, its not.”
2. “You are constantly judging yourself.”
3. “Evaluation implies comparison.”
4. “When you think your life is challenging, its because you’re comparing it to something easier.”
5. “When we compare what we’ve got to something worse than what we’ve got, we feel better about what we’ve got.”
6. “You can take anything and find something to be glad about.”
7. “What we think about, comes about. What we focus on, we feel.”
8. “If you can create a mess, then that means that you can create.”
9. “If you can create a mess, you can create a masterpiece.”
10. “If you don’t put intentional effort into your creation, it will progress to a more disorganized state.”
11. “Elevation requires effort. Light requires power.”
12. “Easy and simple are not the same thing.”
13. “What are we doing for our mental hygiene?”
14. “Do it now.”
15. “Everything’s ok in the end. If its not ok, its not the end.” – Carolyn Myers

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Led by Faith” by Immaculee Ilibagiza: https://amzn.to/3uXH6gX
“Trust Edge” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/3rklv04

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and we have a special guest today.


David Horsager: He wrote the book pathological positivity the proven positivity formula for personal development parenting and relationships. He has a massive following on YouTube and online. He helps people think differently. So they act differently. We’ve got a great discussion ahead. Welcome, Dr. Paul.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Hey. Thank you, David. I’m so pleased to be here today because I’m so passionate about this.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I on it.


David Horsager: I can’t wait. I’m excited. Well, you know, before we get into this, I want to talk about the framework. I want to talk about how we can shift our mind about the things we’ve talked about even ahead of time and


David Horsager: You’re a new friend to us and our audience and I’m so glad you’re here because we need this. And I’m thrilled about it before we do, just as a matter of background, give us give us three things we should know about Dr. Paul Jenkins.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well, the doctor part is all about being a professional psychologist and I have to clarify that sometimes because when the kids were little, and they got an ear infection. My wife said, You’re not a useful doctor


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Because I don’t prescribe medications. I’ve got a PhD in clinical psychology and as a psychologist now a professional psychologist for over 30 years I’ve learned a lot about how to operate the equipment of your mind.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And it’s probably also important to acknowledge, I mean,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Psychotherapy sounds a little like therapy for psychos and so people don’t often sign up for that, even though they could really use the principles.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That allow them to take a higher level of control over their own mind. And so I’ve made a big shift in my career over to the positive end of the spectrum.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So that we can focus more on on education about how to properly operate the equipment of your own mind and I’m having so much fun with that.


David Horsager: I love this.


David Horsager: Yeah. My daughter is a senior in high school, a freshman in college. So she’s just a program out here, where she jumped into college freshmen, so she’s majoring in psychology


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Oh, yeah.


David Horsager: Yeah, exciting. So I’ll let her know there’s there’s real jobs at the end of the tunnel, but


David Horsager: But, but what she’s excited about, like, I know you are is is helping people and I think


David Horsager: You know, there’s a lot more we can learn about you, you, you speak Spanish. I mean you you’ve got a amazing family.


David Horsager: All kinds of cool things. But I think to get to it. You know, he read this book pathological positivity and we hear speakers say say you know just jump up and be positive. Come on. Just smile more. Come on. Just, just be happy and that just seemed can seem trite. What say you,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah, annoying.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And you hear all the time happiness is a choice, right, which can


David Horsager: Only see like it.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right, well it can kind of tip you over. If you’re not happy because then the next thought is, well, why would I ever choose this


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But here’s the thing. David and tell you see it as a choice. It’s not. Hmm. And part of my job. I love this. My job is to illuminate the obvious which is so cool because I get paid to tell people things they already know.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But there are obvious things that are completely unnoticed. So let’s just go there for a moment, obvious but I noticed


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Your shirt. Can you feel it.


David Horsager: Now,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now you can


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now, and it’s obvious right now in this moment is so obvious to you, but you didn’t even notice it before it was called your attention or the fact that we’re speaking English. Did you notice


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And and if you did it might be because you had a reference earlier to the fact that I speak Finnish, at which point we check in and mentally we check in. And notice that we’re not speaking finish. Right.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And it’s obvious that we’re speaking English. But we don’t notice that


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The processes that are going on in our own mind all the time. Let me emphasize that you can’t turn them off.


David Horsager: Okay and I’m obviously upset about this and I’m angry about it and I feel frustrated about it and I know it’s there. And I want to feel happy and I want to be joyful, but


David Horsager: I don’t feel like it.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right. And it doesn’t even feel like a choice.


David Horsager: Right. It feels like that happened to me. Right.


David Horsager: Easy right into victim.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yes. And so it’s my job really to call to your attention so that it’s obvious and noticed


Dr. Paul Jenkins: These processes. They’re going on all the time in your mind, but that you never really stopped to notice. And when we get so used to certain things. We just roll with our programming.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Liking English you and I are both program to speak English. I mean, it just comes so naturally to us. We don’t even think about it. But English is not an easy language.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You just ask anybody who’s trying to learn it as a second language.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It’s not, it’s complicated. There’s all kinds of exceptions to the rules, but here we are speaking it as if it’s easy, just because it’s in our programming.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And the processes that are going on in her mind. Here’s, here’s an example of one of those. It’s called meta cognition.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now meta cognition is a fancy psychobabble made up word we make up words in psychology. It makes us feel smart.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And this is one of them.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: If you break it down cognition simply means thinking


David Horsager: So thinking about thinking


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And metacognition is that higher level it’s thinking about thinking. Notice that you can do this.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right. And right now in this moment. You notice that because we’re talking about it.


David Horsager: Sure.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But that’s really important because metacognition creates a little space. And in that spaces where choice exists.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So as


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The other processes that are going on in our mind, we can think about that and start to steer them.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: In a direction that serves us well.


David Horsager: How can we break that cycle. You know, I’ve got this


David Horsager: This thing. There’s a trigger that happens. And that just throws me and I just get frustrated and I I pause and I think about it, but I still kind of feel this way and I want to make the choice of of joy or goodness, how do I break that cycle.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I think the very first step is awareness. Be aware of it.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Here’s an example. David, we’re we’re recording this particular episode.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: in the throes of a global pandemic. Right. And I get people all the time because of my specialty. I get people all the time companies or groups or whatever that call me up and say, Dr. Paul. You got to help our people figure out how to stay positive during such challenging times


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now when I say awareness. The first thing I want you to be aware of is that you are calling it challenging times


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I had, I had an opportunity. A few years ago, you and I are both affiliated with the national speakers association in our conference in Washington, DC, a few years ago there was a keynote from immaculate Elizabeth Giza.


David Horsager: I’ll never forget it.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Were you in the room that absolutely man she knocked it out of the park. But you got to understand her story as a young 20 something year old woman.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: She survived the Holocaust, the genocide that occurred in Rwanda.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And if I didn’t understand the scope of this, honestly, I don’t know how I missed it. I was young and raising a family at the time that it happened.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Heard it in the news. And I thought, oh warring tribes sticks and stones know this is a civilized society civilized. I’m going to use that term, kind of like we could use it to describe our own society right now.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: These were people like you and me and a million people died in about 90 days immaculately was hidden a who to pastor to compassion on her and hid her in a three foot by four foot bathroom for 90 days with seven other women.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I don’t know how to women can share a big bathroom.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But here they are. And they hear the killings going on outside


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That comes to mind for me, David, because really challenging times


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Compared to what


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And this is the first process that’s going on in people’s minds that I want them to see. I call it evaluation.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But evaluation means judgment and just notice for a minute that you can’t turn it off.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You know, you hear people say sometimes don’t judge


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah, I don’t think we can turn it off. Notice that you are constantly judging or evaluating yourself.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Your life your relationships, your finances the government, the pandemic, the situation that you’re in.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Your co workers, your friends, your family, you’re judging me


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It’s cool. I’m judging you.


David Horsager: Were and were created to it makes things much more efficient to be a judge that I can. I’ve got a chair, before I sit down and I can assume it’s going to hold me up. Right.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And after judgment. See, that’s an evaluation.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Absolutely can’t turn off as well. You’re designed and I’m not saying stop judging, but check it out, evaluation and and the educators who are hearing us today will will really get this evaluation implies comparison with some standard


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And so we have to think about our thinking to get to the point where we’re like, okay, challenging circumstances really compared to what


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And you’ll notice that when you think your life is challenging. It’s because you’re comparing it to something easier.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That you’re imagining


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that’s not what you’ve got. What you’ve got is what you’ve got.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But you can imagine something easier. And if you compare what you got to something better than what you’ve got her easier then you’re going to feel worse about what you got.


David Horsager: So often jump to something better. You know, it’s like you can be at the top 1% right and you still like, but there’s someone at that half like what, why do people jump to that.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Because it could always be better.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right, I don’t care how well you’re doing. It could always be better than the error we make an evaluation and queued me up for the second thing, okay.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But the error. We make because we take what we’ve got. We compared to something better. We feel worse about what we’ve got. Well guess what, it could always be worse.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Really worse than what a macula Gisela through


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Uh huh. She survived.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So it could always be worse, right, when we compare what we’ve got to something worse than what we’ve got. We feel better about what we’ve got.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You see how high level science. This is


David Horsager: I love it. We’re reading a book right now as a family in the evenings in our home called the hiding place and


David Horsager: Corrie 10 boom made it through the you know the whole Holocaust and it’s


David Horsager: Great amazing story. But her attitude compared to all the others her perspective, compared to all the others, it’s just, it’s so


David Horsager: Powerful because it’s still in the midst of this, we can say that, well that was immaculate. That was Corrie 10 boom that was this person and you know


David Horsager: That. But how did they do, how did they really stop it seemingly stopped their mind or shift their mind when when it was so easy to focus on the, you know,


David Horsager: Even in this case even Corey to moon she she kind of rejoices in all the myths that are eating her hair. And it’s like,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah.


David Horsager: It’s hard to imagine


Right and


Dr. Paul Jenkins: This is why it’s so important to see it as a choice, because when you see it as a choice, it becomes a choice. And you get to put yourself in that position intentionally


Dr. Paul Jenkins: She chose to see it that way. You know, people sometimes accuse me of being Pollyanna ish


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I didn’t even notice that a compliment.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Sounded like they were kind of dissing my position. I feel like we’re kind of the same. I had people call me as a kid. Smiley


David Horsager: And I thought,


David Horsager: That was genuinely happy, but I felt like I was blamed like I was wrong. I was bad, right.


David Horsager: For being authentic way happy.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well take Pollyanna as an example. In fact, I’ve got a chapter in my book called The Pollyanna principle.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I went and researched it there’s no Disney show called Pollyanna


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But the book is even better because it gets into more detail about what’s happened here. This is an 11 year old girl who was orphaned can think about that for a minute at 11 year old enough to know that your parents have died.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: This is pretty profound hardship.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And she can’t just pretend that her parents are dead.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right. So here’s the context and but her dad, who was a pastor of some kind. He was a man of faith had taught her a game. The game was called the glad game.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And the game was you can take anything. It doesn’t matter what it is you can take anything and find something to be glad about


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Related to that thing, whatever it is, and she gave a couple of examples being on crutches, having a disease, whatever it is. Okay.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And so she chose after her parents passed away and she was shipped off across several states on a train to live with her rich aunt who was kind of grumpy and surrounded by other grumpy people


Dr. Paul Jenkins: She chose in those circumstances.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: To see the positive


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And it changed how she felt it didn’t change her circumstances, it changed her position relative to those circumstances, and that made all the difference. So, this


David Horsager: When I went through college. Here’s how I remember basic psychology and this makes a lot of sense to me.


David Horsager: We talked about a lot in in our work, even though it were. I remember basic psychology first day of class, you can tell me, Dr. You know, first aid class thoughts lead to desires which lead to actions.


David Horsager: Right. And so that was commonly though so thoughts. So that’s my thoughts matter so much because what you put in


David Horsager: Oh, it was that, oh, if I’m thinking about, like, No, I’m not gonna do this, I’m not a golfer. But people think about golf ball template and then they don’t get a plate because the weather’s bad. It’s like, oh man, so bad because we didn’t get it.


David Horsager: Because I was thinking about that right it is. That’s why I often say, you know, you don’t tell me. This guy just got caught in adultery and start thinking about it then became a desire, then it became acted on it starts starts way over here, right, we


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Write


David Horsager: We put this input in this kind of truth. By the way, isn’t just psychology is it it’s every science. The first what the


David Horsager: Great German physicist and the first law of thermodynamics, like the energy put in as exact same as Jenna get energy. Get out and reap what you sow, you, you, you eat bad Poland chili. You get bad output right so input output, no matter what you do and


David Horsager: And that’s, that’s the crux of this


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So one of my colleagues says it this way. He says, what we think about comes about what we focus on we feel


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That is so true psychologically and show you why that’s true. And this is the first part of it. Notice that you are constantly evaluating your life.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And everything in it that evaluation depends on


Dr. Paul Jenkins: A Comparison with some standard. And if you don’t have a standard you’ll make one up and you got a pretty good about are pretty good imagination around that.


David Horsager: So, should I just lower my standards and lower my comparisons, which


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well hey


David Horsager: My thinking


Dr. Paul Jenkins: This is going to cue this up. Okay. Because there’s another process in these to work in tandem. They are separate processes that are going on in our mind, but they use the same tool of our imagination and the second process is called creation.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now this is creation of what is to be and that doesn’t exist yet. We haven’t created it yet.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And one of those laws of physics would say matter can’t be created or destroyed. It just changes form. So everything with which we will create our future already exists right now in our world.


David Horsager: Hmm.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And we use our imagination.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: To go about a process and I outline this in my book as well that the creation process, there are steps to it.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And it has to be imagined for. So check this out. Let’s just explore our creative power here for a moment. What if we all took on a challenge.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And we put a time limit on it half hour. Let’s just say we got a half hour to pull this off, take a half hour employ your best creative ideas in any resources that you can bring into play to somehow in a half hour. Make your life worse.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Okay you ready


Dr. Paul Jenkins: David, would you ever do this on purpose. I mean,


David Horsager: Of course not easy.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah, look how quickly your mind came up with half a dozen ways to pull that off and it wouldn’t take a half hour.


David Horsager: That’s right, it wouldn’t minutes


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Just connect with that for a minute that people don’t realize how good a news. This is


Dr. Paul Jenkins: If you can create a mass which you’re confident you could write


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Then that means you can create period.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now let’s steer that because if you can create a mess. You can create a masterpiece.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But this goes back, like you were saying you know there’s natural laws that play here. The second law of thermodynamics, entropy


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Has to do with things always going toward a more disorganized state. And here’s the thing, if you don’t put intentional effort into your creation, which you can’t turn off.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It will progress to a more disorganized state, you will make a mess.


David Horsager: That is good.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You never


Dr. Paul Jenkins: never hear this small enough where


David Horsager: This is frustrating. Now I gotta do the work. Right. This doesn’t just happen. It’s not a, just a quick. Oh, I can do this in 21 days we make jokes about that around here.


David Horsager: You can, you know, this little thing that little thing. I mean everything matters, but we had to do the work here. How are we going to shift our mind what


David Horsager: Else can we do to to do the work. So that we’re creating a masterpiece, and said, How are we going to be start to be intentional hey by the way everybody it’s psychological positivity. This is the formula is all there.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: We get an astrological positive


David Horsager: Like I said, pathological positivity. I’ve got it right here, but um I think of Dr. Jenkins as the psychologist, so I think I said that but


David Horsager: You know, this is our. This is our deal right we try to suck the marrow of life out of our guests. So we get free counseling and


David Horsager: Consulting all at once.


David Horsager: And this is our gift today we get, we’re going to take everything we can. And we’re going to have everybody get the book, too, but


David Horsager: But I want to, you know what, how can we, let’s take this pathological positivity. Take the proven formula. Make it easy and get a start. And I think we have a good one already.


David Horsager: A good one. We start with us awareness and this understanding evaluation we understand it to choice. We, we can see that it could always be worse as well as always be better. And we see we can easily create a mess.


David Horsager: So that means we can create a masterpiece. So how are we going to take this little. I love that second law of thermodynamics and and we have to we don’t want entropy. So we got to be intentional how it’s time for our work, how are we going to start to be intentional.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: First of all,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The fact that it’s going to take work is not bad news. It’s an acknowledgement of a natural law.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I learned this on a little place called this the stairway to heaven.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Are you familiar with this, David. It’s metal stairs going up the sheer ridge of a volcano on the island of Oahu.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: We just heard a him out.


David Horsager: And we stopped out your way there and you tell we just were coming back through Maui that it’s blowing again, by the way, that one of the


David Horsager: One of the options on the Big Island right now.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah, well then you know how shear and steep these volcanoes are


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It’s incredible. Well, the stairs go upside of the mountain. I’ve got a picture that I took with my son, where I’m taking I’m looking down at him below me on the stairs and it looks like he’s lying down flat on the stairs.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well he’s standing on the stairs. It’s like a ladder at that point straight up well. Which direction are we going if we lose hold


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You never hear anyone falling up


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that shouldn’t surprise us that if we want to go to a higher place.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: A place of more organization and more order and and more peace and happiness and prosperity.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It’s going to take some work to get there elevation requires effort.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And light requires power. Welcome to Earth, folks, these are natural laws. Don’t be tipped over by that and when you said you know there’s, it’s an easy way to do the easy and simple aren’t the same thing.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: These principles are very simple. It will not be easy because of the work that entails. So when when we say happiness is a choice. Yeah, so is playing the guitar.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Or speaking finish.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: It’s a choice. And you can see that the choice is necessary but not sufficient. So let’s get over that hump. First, some people think, Well, okay then I’ll just choose happiness. That’s like saying, yeah, then I’ll speak German, right.


Right.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: hire a coach enroll for the course put in the work. Get the reps in


David Horsager: Tell us an example of somebody you’ve worked with a lot of people helped a lot of people in a lot of ways you’ve got you’ve got you’ve got for what you do, you’re, you’re doing


David Horsager: This psychological work, your, your cat, you could say counseling coaching equipping


David Horsager: Tell us a story of somebody who you’ve taken from here to here or the process says, you know, maybe take all the credit for it, but I know you’ve had done some some great work. And you’ve seen some transformation. Give us an example.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The, the process, like you said earlier when when you were asking. Okay, where do we start with first step.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Is the awareness, right, because until you become aware of it. See, it’s the principles that change your life when you apply them.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So there’s really a five part process that people go through and all of my clients are at some point in this process. So am I. So are you. Yep. And, and I’ve labeled these five steps encounter.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that’s where you become aware of a principal cave. When you encounter it for the first time I was on a call earlier today, where


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I had just been introduced to something that I had never known about. And she said, well, you never know until you know like


David Horsager: Right.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That’s profound so you encounter. But then you have to recognize that principle that’s the second step, you recognize the principle as truth.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Now, and for this I think David. We all have a natural knowing


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And people describe this sometimes as the AHA experience. You know where the lights go on it resonates with you, sometimes ask my clients is this ring and and singing with you.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Where Does it resonate in you in terms of being true.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So encounter recognize embrace is the third step.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that’s where we have to get it into our programming. Okay. This is where the practice kicks in. And this is where most people


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Stumble a little because there’ll be in the seminar or the listen to the book or the podcast episode of the lights go on and it’s like, yeah, this time of fired up about this.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Then what


Dr. Paul Jenkins: We’ve got to practice it. Just like if you choose to play the guitar speak Finnish, you’re going to have to practice and put in the reps.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And this is why I’ve built a membership site around this where we provide daily, weekly, monthly input you brush your teeth every day, I hope. I mean, if not that’s another conversation, but that we pay attention to our dental hygiene. What are we doing for our mental hygiene.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I would invite everyone who’s listening, if you’re listening to this show right now spend at least as much time on your mental hygiene as you do your dental hygiene.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Your brain is so much more important than your teeth. Okay. Apologies to all of our dental friends, but it is more important.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Than your to your brain will allow you to take care of your teeth to that’s so that’s the embrace part where we do the actual practice we put in the reps and then the next part is to live that principle.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: If you don’t incorporate a new skill into your daily practices, you’ll lose it over time and a principal doesn’t have the power to improve your life until it’s applied.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So that’s the live stage that’s for and then at the fifth stage.


David Horsager: This is why is that back that up knowledge isn’t power only knowledge applied is power. Right, so


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right, exactly.


David Horsager: That’s the point. Okay.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: For knowledge is potential power at best.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And then the fifth stage is to share


Dr. Paul Jenkins: To share that principle, this one comes naturally. David and I get this from a lot of the people that I’ve coached to say how can I go out and teach people how to do this.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So I’ve developed some certification and training for for people to actually do that. But it’s a natural desire, when something gets into your life.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And I see this with you in the work that you’ve done around trust and and everything that you learned about that. And then it’s like, I gotta show this.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right. No.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: lights you up and it turns on and you can’t sleep until you go do it. So, so that’s a natural part of that process. So we’ve got encounter recognize embrace live and share the principles that have empowered you


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That’s


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: This is a great process and for all those out there. We’re going to put in the show notes exactly where you can find Dr. Paul Jenkins and how you can get coached by him if you’d like, or be a part of his


David Horsager: Groups, because this takes work. And with little coaching. We all know with accountability and coaching. We can amplify it we can speed it up. We need each other. We need community and we need experts.


David Horsager: To help us on the way I’ve talked before about how much mentorship is matter to me how I’ve been mentored in business.


David Horsager: Marriage life, physically, but let’s get to you. You said mental hygiene is you know so important. We should do that at least as much time as dental hygiene. So what are you doing, what’s the doctor do every day to take care of that mental hygiene.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I have already today. We’ll just take today. As an example, I’ve already today listened to two podcasts podcast and part of an audio book.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That was specifically selected to support my positive mindset.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And and so I’ve probably spent between the two. And I speed up the speed K so you get more content and less time I speeded it up so I probably spent 20 minutes on that.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Just input.


David Horsager: Equals output right so


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I have


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I cheat. Okay. Because I set up my day to spend my entire day talking with people about these principles and I call what I do a practice, it’s my psychology practice.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: But I spit. I literally spend all day every day. I’m a black belt in positivity. Right.


The same


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Okay, should


David Horsager: I should have had some cold delivered or something. United States. See how he reacts to start the house on fire behind them and just see


David Horsager: If this is good. Well, for those of you just listening to podcasts, obviously we’re on student, we can see each other, shining faces.


David Horsager: But so so other just as long as we’re on the topic of habits because you we believe little things done consistently make the biggest difference. It doesn’t matter if it’s physically or


David Horsager: Financially, or you know in our, in our craft on the platform as leaders. What are just whether you jump in here you jump in.


David Horsager: What you talked about or just in life, what our habits like you’re doing that’s something you do every day. That’s a little thing you really try to do or what consistent habits anything around routine.


David Horsager: When you get up where you live. That really helps you live this positivity because I could see someone being in a you know black belt someday, even in positivity and atrophying


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Oh yeah, and that will happen if you’re not constantly refreshing and renewing and and supporting that because of the second law of thermodynamics


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Right, things will go to a less organized state if they are left untended or if we lose our intention around that.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And so the constant daily maintenance is important. There I talked to my clients all the time about this and it’s something I tried to do personally it’s called brain maintenance.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And it’s very basic around get enough sleep, eat a balanced diet regular exercise and regular daily periods of prayer and meditation.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that came from Dr. Ned Halliwell at Harvard who presented this as brain maintenance is how you take care of the actual physical equipment, the houses, you’re


David Horsager: Like anything we’ve talked about around here. That’s unbelievable. So my wife. This is just crazy that you talk like this because


David Horsager: This is totally not from a book or anything, but my wife and I were talking about what is it about people, you know, people set goals and then they don’t accomplish anything right. They set this


David Horsager: Yeah, nothing happens. And we said, what is it about the people that actually really can, you know, set something and accomplish it or make the big thing happen or kind of when ongoing


David Horsager: And we just start talking about in an acronym actually seeds and this isn’t from another book or anything, but I’m sure all you know truth is truth right so


David Horsager: Seeds. We certainly well. And when we, when are we in our best right it S stands for sleep. Gotta get sleep.


David Horsager: The E stands for exercise turns out when we move a little bit when we’re not permitted this. I’m not going to run a marathon like my wife, I will watch her that’ll be good exercise but I you know I I move a little bit that the second Ian seeds is eat right, you know, when we


David Horsager: It’s kind of funny because I was told one time by a Dr.


David Horsager: David, you know, you want to run a Ferrari or a Junker and you put different fuel in a Ferrari. So what are you gonna put in there. If you’ll eat five vegetables a day instead of what you’re eating. If you’ll put this in, you’ll have a different


David Horsager: You’ll have a different vehicle and you know little about a decade ago, I lost 50 pounds in five months and basically kept it off so it


David Horsager: Was kind of thinking about what’s that like, especially as flying 200 times a year. I just felt differently on the flights and I showed up in you know


David Horsager: Japan differently. And that was the biggest thing and I haven’t been sick for years and years. I don’t know if it’s been a decade or not, maybe


David Horsager: More but I it some of these things so that he and the D in seeds for us was drink water. You gotta get a drink, drink.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I mean just yeah on here.


David Horsager: I’m


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Gonna stay hydrated.


David Horsager: My 91 year old Dad says best drink least advertised.


David Horsager: Of course, now, now you can. Exactly. Now you can buy it back then you just pull it out of the tap. But now you can


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You can pay more for it than a


David Horsager: Soda, I suppose. But anyway, drink water. I make sure I’m drinking a gallon, half a day at least


David Horsager: And that


David Horsager: And the final s like what you talked about his source of strength. Where do you get your source of strength and


David Horsager: I won’t tell everybody what that should be exactly but what we’ve noticed in the CEOs presidents of countries and peasant presidents of companies that I sit next to


David Horsager: They do better if they have a source of strength beyond themselves. And if that’s family if that’s faith if that’s friendships, but those that are all in only on that whatever it is business. They do. They don’t do as well as those that have a source of strength beyond themselves.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: That’s right. So,


David Horsager: That’s very, maybe. Interestingly, because unlike my trust research that wasn’t validated. But now you validated seeds by your Harvard friend and your own Dr. Jenkins brain so


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I appreciate that.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Yeah, and big surprise, right, because these are universal principles and that’s why you’re going to see them showing up almost everywhere you look. I am a junkie about personal development self improvement.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Kind of emotional psychology junkie.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Development junkie. I’m a Ferrari on


David Horsager: Like it


Dr. Paul Jenkins: This and and it shows up everywhere. It really does. So these are consistent principles and when you take good care of the equipment.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Then you’re able to to go to that higher level, you know, you want to develop a skill, you’ve got the brain prepared to do that for you and


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Also I interviewed


Dr. Paul Jenkins: James Garrett on my podcast. Just last week and he’s into the brain science and he talks about habits and you know builds on some of the work done by Charles do Hagen James clear and some of these guys who’ve written about habit.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: He says, make it simple, make it obvious and make it non negotiable.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And if you do those things, you know, making it simple that parent down to what’s really important to you instead of saying, I’m going to start running five miles a day.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: If you’re not currently running a mile or two a day, you probably want to start with. I’m going to put in 10 minutes or like our mutual friend Jim Cathcart he talked about when he lost all of that way. And he made a goal to put on his running shoes and tagged the curb. Was it


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Well, you know, bait, way back


David Horsager: And I got fortunate enough to know him, for he passed away, but Ziegler the same thing. You know, he started. He’s the first first block. He hated it.


David Horsager: Secondary right so I’ll run two blocks. He hated it. And pretty soon, nine months later, he’s in Oregon. After speaking at an event and he’s out running is like I like running right it just something changed so


David Horsager: Yeah, I love it. Well, this has been awesome.


David Horsager: You know, you can find. We’re going to show you where you can find Dr. Paul Jenkins. We’re going to show you in the show notes exactly where you can get more and we’re going to come to that in just a second. Before we do, we get a lightning round here. Keep it quick. Keep it sharp


David Horsager: Here we go.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Bring it.


David Horsager: I know that you also are kind of a productivity tip guru to like you, you, you keep things, at least from what I saw. What would you say about productivity. What’s an idea, anybody to be more effective and efficient at the same time. Any tip you have for us. I didn’t ask you at a time.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Biggest tip that comes right to my mind is do it now.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You can’t do everything right now so I define now is having a start time and in time and a very specific task in between.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Stop telling yourself. You’re going to do all of these things and have it be a list of and kept commitments, put it on your calendar.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And break it down to the next.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Doable step good and do it now between the start time and in that time.


David Horsager: It’s a great one. If we would just love it. Favorite book or resource right now.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Favorite one right now is probably the trust edge by


I love


David Horsager: I love that you’re awesome. That’s my favorite book, too, because that’s that that at one point provided quite a living so


David Horsager: Yeah.


David Horsager: That’s fun. I pretend something just for the fun of it. Here’s something you can’t live without.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: My wife came right to mind.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Happy is


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Such a sweet blessing in my life. She, she provides support and companionship and fun and grandbabies. I mean, we’re just having a great time and I have the best marriage. I know.


David Horsager: And you’re expecting a couple more that


David Horsager: That is good when you have the best marriage, you know, because you know


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I know a lot of them.


David Horsager: Exactly. I think I could say the same thing. So I appreciate that.


David Horsager: I quote, what’s it. What’s something you live by, or think of what’s an inspiring quote for others today.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The one and this is lightning round so you get one comes right out stuck my head. I did the one that came to my mind was Carolyn Myers.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Everything’s okay. In the end,


Dr. Paul Jenkins: If it’s not okay. It’s not the end.


David Horsager: That’s a good way to leave us today.


David Horsager: One thing left for you bucket list. What do you hope for still


Dr. Paul Jenkins: I would like to take my sweet Vicki and go live in Finland for a few years.


David Horsager: Great not cold enough for you are not dark enough where you are. There’s some of the happiest people on the planet. Speaking of joy. There you go. Right. Those Scandinavians


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You know, we’ve got a lot of dear friends over there. We speak the language. There’s a little part of our heart that got left in Finland, when we were young adults and we were over there doing some volunteer church missionary work.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So that’s just been on our bucket list for us. First thing came to my mind.


David Horsager: Hey, hey, I’ve got some advice for you.


David Horsager: Yeah, do it now.


David Horsager: Ah, do it now. Hey, he’s gone. Everybody you went to the airport. He’s, he’s doing it right now.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So la


David Horsager: Hey work well I’ve got one last question for you, but where before that. Where can we find out about you. I know you gave us some gifts here, this Dr. Paul Jenkins dot info slash portable positivity is going to be in the show notes. Everybody can click that. But tell us about that.


David Horsager: And where you’d like to share more with us.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: So portable positivity is a little mini book that I wrote to


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Capture a model that goes over those two processes that I just told you about valuation and creation so it walks you through the model.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And and it takes positivity from the trite fluffy motivational speaker version to the hard psychological science behind it. So the chill understand how to operate the equipment. So that’s available for free, that the link that you just share


David Horsager: You are kind


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You can also go to the main website. Dr. Paul Jenkins calm and there’s a big orange button there where you can get a free plus shipping offer on my pathological positivity, so you get that as well. If you’d like


David Horsager: And I noticed you can also get a breakthrough what tell us give us a one minute on what’s, what’s it like to go through this this schedule your free broke breakthrough session.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: The, the breakthrough session is where you get on the phone with one of my zoom call typically where you get on the zoom call with one of my client experience guides


Dr. Paul Jenkins: Who can walk you through different options that are available. I already told you, we have a membership site. We have coaching both group coaching and private coaching.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: We’re doing everything that we can to provide the resources that you’re going to need for your mental hygiene and one of those breakthrough calls would allow you to have that conversation with one of our client experience guides


Perfect.


David Horsager: Well, here we are eight we could talk a whole lot more. But the final question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Dr. Paul Jenkins: There are so many, you know, the first one that came to my mind was my little league basketball coach.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: This was so many years ago, but he left an indelible impression on my mind as he taught me something about how to have influence


Dr. Paul Jenkins: And that has since since developed into a model that I’ve, I call the influence quadrant, which is an upcoming book that all right about the short version.


Dr. Paul Jenkins: You get out of your own way. It’s not about you, how you feel is only secondary you put your focus on how they feel about themselves and that gives you influences leader.


David Horsager: I love it. Well, that’s a, you know, there’s a lot of data around that to the more you look at others. The more you volunteer. The happy are you happy are you are so


David Horsager: When we start focusing on others. A whole lot can shift in the mindset anyway to wow


David Horsager: It’s true. Well, this has been fascinating, go to the show notes. Get the free book and connect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Paul Jenkins. This has been a treat. And just fun to see your smile here to next time I’m in Utah going to connect


David Horsager: But absolutely, we’ll see each other again, face to face, but this has been the trusted leader show. We had a great guest and Dr. Paul Jenkins today and we will see you next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 14: Dave Mortensen on The 4 P’s For Developing a Healthy Culture

In this episode, David sits down with Dave Mortensen, President and Co-Founder of Self Esteem Brands, to discuss the 4 P’s for developing a healthy culture.

Dave’s Bio:
From cleaning exercise equipment to selling memberships to co-founding the world’s fastest-growing fitness club franchise, Dave Mortensen has done just about everything you can do in the fitness industry. That wide-ranging experience has helped him become one of the world’s leading experts on “Making Healthy Happen.” His heartfelt practice of emotional intelligence has earned Dave a reputation, amongst his co-workers and throughout the entire fitness industry, as a thoughtful and generous leader. And it’s just part of the reason he was recently named an “Entrepreneur of the Year” by Ernst & Young.

As the President and Co-founder of Self Esteem Brands, Dave leads a global collection of franchises intent upon improving the health and wellness of millions of people worldwide.

In the early days of Anytime Fitness, Mortensen helped spur the company’s growth by overseeing the development and implementation of its integrated security, surveillance, usage-tracking and reciprocity systems. These days, he’s heavily involved in Anytime Fitness’ evolution from a gym that emphasizes simple convenience to one that offers round-the-clock coaching services, utilizing the latest technology to provide members with support, nutritional information, and a wide array of new fitness training programs. Mortensen also continues to play an important role in leading the expansion of Anytime Fitness worldwide, frequently travelling to consult with master franchisees all over the globe.

The first Anytime Fitness gym opened its doors in Cambridge, MN in May of 2002. In the years since, Anytime Fitness has quickly become an international powerhouse — with nearly 5,000 gyms located in all 50 states and nearly 40 countries on all seven continents, serving nearly 4 million members.

Under Mortensen’s leadership, Anytime Fitness has earned numerous industry accolades, including “One of America’s Most Promising Companies,” “Top Global Franchise,” “Fastest-Growing Fitness Club,” a “Top Franchise for Minorities,” ”IFA Entrepreneur of the Year Award” and “The Best Place to Work in Minnesota” — four years in a row.

In addition to Anytime Fitness, Self Esteem Brands serves as the parent company to three other rapidly-growing franchises: Waxing the City – with nearly 200 studios dedicated to providing the finest waxing experience imaginable; The Bar Method – a popular, low-impact fitness franchise with more than 100 studios across 30 states and Canada; and Basecamp Fitness – a high-intensity, class-based fitness concept.

Dave’s Links:
Self Esteem Brands: https://www.sebrands.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DaveMortensenAF
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davemortensenaf/?hl=en
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidmortensenaf/
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen with Mark Conklin: https://amzn.to/3beKjRC

Key Quotes:
1. “Relationships come first.”
2. “The worst voice in the meeting is the one not speaking.”
3. “You have to be naturally available.”
4. “Authenticity is really, really key.”
5. “The key thing in culture is living it.”
6. “Culture is a verb.”
7. “We take our business seriously, we don’t take ourselves too serious.”
8. “The best wins in eating healthy are incremental wins.”
9. “The best investment you can make is within yourself.”
10. “Love your kids.”
11. “You can’t ever try and prejudge where you’re going to land.”
12. “You have to be intentional about what you’re doing each and every day.”
13. “Less stifling, more giving.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Off Balance On Purpose” by Dan Thurmon: https://amzn.to/3bbF1Gb
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
“Love Work” by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen with Mark Conklin: https://amzn.to/3beKjRC

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager. I have a special guest. He’s a friend. We’ve known each other for a long time. He is an amazing story. Dave Mortensen


David Horsager: President of Anytime Fitness and self esteem brands. Thanks for being with us today.


davemortensen: David. It’s my pleasure. I’m always glad to be with you.


David Horsager: Well, you are one of those leaders, it’s, it’s just an amazing story from


David Horsager: You know, cleaning


David Horsager: Athletic equipment to now kind of presiding over this fastest growing fitness.


David Horsager: Brand in Anytime Fitness almost


David Horsager: 5000 franchises around the world, plus a host of other


David Horsager: things you’re doing. Can you just give us a two.


David Horsager: To three minutes I


David Horsager: On the story of


David Horsager: where you came from and where you are now.


davemortensen: You know my story’s a pretty gritty story I you know what I was raised by two. Just amazing parents


davemortensen: Hardworking individuals. My dad was a truck driver. My mom was a factory worker and they, you know, they both were 100% parents and you know lucky to still have them in my life today and still being


davemortensen: Someone who still makes an impact in my life. Right. But from that point, you know, I


davemortensen: came at a college and said I needed to do something. And believe it or not, I dropped out of college. Whoa. What a story, there’s no advice here do not drop out of college, I’d love to redo that one.


davemortensen: dropped out of college purely financial reasons and a lot of different things going on my life and I you know what I knew I wanted to be in the health and wellness industry.


davemortensen: So I went around looking for jobs I end up taking a job for $4 an hour at a front desk at a health club and my story was kind of written from there within a year I was an assistant


davemortensen: Manager and leading my way up there shortly thereafter met my business partner who has been my business partner for over 30 years and through that we’ve been a part of each other’s families and


davemortensen: revelations of life and through those experiences. We started out as consultants traveling all across the


davemortensen: US, Canada, Australia is working with independent health clubs after our experience of running gyms.


davemortensen: And from that experience. We decided something needed to change in the industry, you know, at that time, fitness was a destination place. And really we needed to make this more available to all consumers and all communities.


davemortensen: And we came, came up with this concept of Anytime Fitness and from that point, it’s just grown exponentially. You know, as you know, in


davemortensen: You know, close to 5000 facilities and 30 plus countries and and all seven continents. It’s been a crazy ride and this last year has been crazier than ever, but


davemortensen: You know, it’s still relishes what we started about oh 809 and that’s really believing in our purpose. And I know you’re really driven by that.


davemortensen: Our purpose is really doing proved the self esteem of the world and we believe you only can do that one person at a time and that’s been something that’s driven our other brands with self esteem brands with of course base camp, but as the bar method in wax in the city.


David Horsager: That’s amazing. So I didn’t know this by the way you know I’ve done work on every all 50 states.


David Horsager: six continents, but the seven continents. So you get an Anytime Fitness in Antarctica.


davemortensen: Well, I tell you, Dave. A year ago, this past December we launched on a boat called the Magellan in Antarctica and a lot of people say, why did you open as


davemortensen: A fitness center or


davemortensen: Like anyone would say because we want to do. And we wanted to be able to be the first franchises swimming all seven continents, because we really do believe in the benefits of health.


davemortensen: And we felt can’t be true to ourselves if we’re not dropping every community possible. So yeah, we put it on a boat and spent a 10 days out on on the ocean, it was


David Horsager: Incredible. That is, that’s fantastic. Well, that


David Horsager: I believe in it. I’ve been a member of Anytime Fitness and I know you got a lot of other brands.


David Horsager: But tell me about specifically this one as far as it relates to coming to this last


David Horsager: Year of code and the challenge we talked about


David Horsager: You know, trust out, you know, trust is especially it’s


David Horsager: Built the fastest in crisis, how we respond in crisis, we can lose or gain a


David Horsager: Whole lot of trust. But what what are some takeaways from the last year.


davemortensen: Was last year, the biggest takeaway. I’m seeing this through business leaders all across


davemortensen: The US and even in our other countries as well is that we’ve really realized that who are core people that surround us you know our relationships come first and how we combine our efforts and align our efforts and the way we think.


davemortensen: You’ve seen everyone take an initiative List of this big and really narrowed down to the key essential things that you need a hyper focus on tell you I think most businesses are delivering deeper on the fact that they’ve aligned their teams on this focal point and the real


davemortensen: Opportunity here is in every businesses go, what are the key things that we did to stay so focused during this period of time and bring this into 2021 and beyond.


davemortensen: And make sure we don’t lose that type of hyper focus and just genuine alignment between the organizations we put all our noise aside, Dave.


davemortensen: Mm hmm. Right.


davemortensen: We’ll start to do that.


David Horsager: I think its interest that’s really interesting because early on in the pandemic. I was on a


David Horsager: Call with McChrystal General McChrystal and he was talking about how in these times.


David Horsager: You don’t have a one year vision. You don’t have a nine month six month vision. You got an air out. What’s the


David Horsager: What’s the flagpole. The flag. The plan this week.


David Horsager: In fact, he talked about when he was, you know, leading the whole


David Horsager: Europe, they’re trying to find Osama bin Laden. They’re trying to find, you know, and there’s like they couldn’t they couldn’t get ahead on the


David Horsager: What they needed to know. And so he got every morning every single day said we’re having a meeting every day across Europe and Africa 2200 people are on this call at 680 600 and everybody’s on the call anybody can share. We need it. The newest data every 24 hours that you’re finding


David Horsager: And they took 30 minutes and after that they made the game plan for the day. So it was it was this hyper focus on this thing. You know, so


David Horsager: That’s that’s interesting because I think in these times. And that’s I think that’s something we can take with us changes not going away hyper focus is value long term here, you know, so


davemortensen: You said a key thing about that meeting to one of the things that we always talk about


davemortensen: Is making sure that everyone can share, you know, one of the most important things in a meeting that we always say is that the you know the worst voice in the meeting is a one not speaking


davemortensen: Right. We all know that we have one mouth and two ears. So we need to be doing a lot of listening.


davemortensen: But even more importantly your point of view your POV is so important inside the organization as a leader, the more POV. We can get across the delineation of our in our business deep into the field, the better decision making. We can make as an organization, so


David Horsager: Don’t do that.


David Horsager: How do you listen to that. It’s like


David Horsager: You got people I know.


David Horsager: I mean, that’s terrible copy was built on that this idea where they, a lot of those cool little


David Horsager: sayings. Thanks a lot. J and all that, that they came from frontline minimum wage workers because they had a way of do in those days when caribou is growing so


David Horsager: Much back in the 2000 and when they became two number two to to Starbucks. And then, of course,


David Horsager: Things change again because they didn’t keep up in certain ways and and but but those they had this way of listening to the front lines.


David Horsager: How do you, how do you do it. I mean, I think a lot of leaders struggles with this THEY SAY IT’S IMPORTANT TO HEAR FROM EVERYBODY but they don’t really


davemortensen: Well, there’s two ways to do it formally organically and you need to do both, you know, I’ll start with a formal process.


davemortensen: The formal process. You got to make sure that you make your organization readily available from the field up and we believe in.


davemortensen: When you look at an org chart flip that thing upside down. I hate the triangle. I just wanted upside down the leader should be on the bottom of that triangle, and we should be looking up because this is where all the work happens


davemortensen: Is that the top of that triangle. So now or at the bottom. They say, but we put it to the top. And the reason is, is because we have to make sure that we’re always asking from level to level two level would you hear


davemortensen: From your peers. Would you hear from the field. What did you hear from the people making the difference in the impact of what you do so.


davemortensen: Having a formal process to make sure you’re gaining that information and making sure all voices are being both spoken heard are key and in the formal process. So that’s one. Number two is


davemortensen: You have to be naturally available availability to your team and to anyone in your organization. I’ll give an example. When I sit down in any call that I make with anyone. One of the things I do and I’ll do it today is given my cell phone number.


davemortensen: You know my cell phone number is available on my email. It’s available everywhere. Now I’m going to tell people


David Horsager: I thought I was special.


davemortensen: Nobody give that to everybody, because you know what, here’s the deal just text me, call me ask a question.


davemortensen: Being available for people is very key. If you want to be able to make a change in people’s lives and having that role down in your organization to make sure that they are available is also very important.


David Horsager: That’s huge. I mean you got 5000 franchise. You got three other


David Horsager: You know,


David Horsager: Franchise businesses and giving yourself on everybody. I think is


Uncommon


David Horsager: You know, I want to jump to to your, your, the four P’s Damien how you develop culture there and we just a quick rundown and


David Horsager: Share the book you wrote on it too. So everybody hears it, but I think this is, you know, as we frame up culture we talk about how do we create high performing cultures on trust. Culture is critical. Trust is critical, but it’s it’s a high trust culture that matters. And I think you’ve done


David Horsager: That better than many


David Horsager: I’ve looked


davemortensen: Deeply at I APPRECIATE THAT. Dave and I think one of the key things before I even go into the PS, I’ll say authenticity is really, really key. I know so many people that want to build


davemortensen: Out a plan for culture and they write it out and put a lot of great words together and they use their marketing department. They all do this and they drive this like here’s who we are and then they posted on the wall.


David Horsager: Yeah, but


davemortensen: The thing in culture is living it living it and believing it and sustaining it three organization. It’s actionable. You have to make it a verb and


davemortensen: You know, culture is a verb, make it a verb in your business. And it’s amazing what will what will resonate across the organization for us, it was about building a culture of love work.


davemortensen: And and and that’s the name of our book, of course, but love work was all about loving what we do. But it’s not just about loving work. It’s really about loving life.


davemortensen: And if you look at our P’s. We believe it’s it as prevalent in your personal life as your business life first P, of course, being people


davemortensen: And and we all talk about people, but I’ll give you the key component to it.


davemortensen: If you want to deliver on on healthy relationships you have to care more than just about what they’re doing for your business.


davemortensen: You have to care about what they are doing in their life, and you have to invest 50% of that time and development on what they are doing in helping build themselves to be a better person.


davemortensen: Inside and outside your organization. The other 50 is what are they doing on the practical purpose in your business.


davemortensen: But if you don’t focus on the energies around what they’re doing, personally, a lot of people get scared to go in that world. I’ll tell you you’re missing a big boat. You have to, you have to put that out then as it


davemortensen: entices city and care into those individuals.


davemortensen: The next is driving our, our second P which is purpose and we talked about that for us. It’s really simple improving the self esteem of the world.


davemortensen: And every brand has its own level of purpose. So what is supporting that would be an example in Anytime Fitness. It’s let’s make healthy happen and we believe by delivering on that we’re driving and developing our purpose around building self esteem of the world.


davemortensen: And then of course profits and I’ll tell you, Dave. If we change something in the book we rewrite the book we change the word prophet, giving you a little nugget.


davemortensen: And for anyway. It’s not really about driving profits. We know profits are a necessity.


davemortensen: But if I get changed that word around it would be really performance.


davemortensen: Because performance is a p, we believe that goes much deeper into the aspect of your business than just profits performance drives those profits. So that is really a keyboard. And last but not least,


davemortensen: I’ve said this to you. Many times, but really enjoying what you do and we use the word PLAY. And play really means this, we take our business. Seriously, we don’t take ourselves too serious.


davemortensen: You know we meet so many people that are so serious about


davemortensen: Who they are, they’re very intentional. I love that about everyone


davemortensen: But relax a little bit because people want to see your core person. They want to see who you are when you laugh. They want to see you when you cry.


davemortensen: And being that core person is what really brings out creativity, collaboration community inside of your business. And that’s how we drive our purpose and we rebalance that every year.


David Horsager: And I know you actually do live it. I know you give up a


David Horsager: Percentage of every dollar to that developing your people, even on their home you know their, their personal lives and you shout that purpose, whether it’s through your


David Horsager: annual meetings and training and I mean there are very few people, I think that when on training as much as you do communicating how you know training people to be successful in building their franchise and everything.


David Horsager: Else. Let’s get personal though, let’s jump into, you know, I know you’re healthy and seek to be healthy at home and in


David Horsager: Life what habits. We see trusted leaders that we talked about and try to become our, our have certain routines and certain habits.


davemortensen: Well, some of yours.


davemortensen: One of the questions you’re gonna ask me is, what is the book you’re reading. So when you say routines and habits and the most off balance person you’ll ever meet. So I’m reading this book right now with Dan Thurman, right.


davemortensen: Sure, it’s really about how do you take a person who’s got a lot going on in their world. And it’s out of balance feels out of balance all the time and bringing it to balance and I’ll tell you how I do it.


davemortensen: And it’s sometimes it’s hot and cold. In fact I reestablish it. In fact, I’m working on reestablishing and even for 2021 yet everyone started on January 1 I’m still working on mine. So I’m a little behind the eight ball, but it’s really about the


davemortensen: The four things that I believe in which is Sam and I’ve talked about this before. So my balance in life starts with spiritual


davemortensen: And for anyone that’s listening. It’s where where your belief in faith is and what your higher being, is above you. Right. So mine is very, very spiritual and understanding that connection to that.


davemortensen: Of course, the next one is emotional and emotional to me is really about


davemortensen: The relationships I have around me. You know, so emotion is all about my connections and the relationships with my family, my kids, my friends.


davemortensen: Everybody in the world of my life. So understanding those relational connections. The, the, the next one of course is mental. How am I feeding my brain.


davemortensen: People forget you need to be feeding that thing 24 seven if you want to continue to harness it and develop it, but then you have to evaluate do it differently.


davemortensen: You can learn in so many different areas. So I like to find different ways to take in information in one year. It might be in podcast one year, it might


davemortensen: Be more reading one year just might be just listening to mentors that I believe in, or I’m connected to. So there’s a lot of different ways to do it.


davemortensen: And last but not least, to really create my balance in life. It’s my physical health and really making sure that I have a consistency in my exercise in my life.


davemortensen: You know, walking the walk is very, very important for us. And that’s something that is also not only in exercise, but also in the way I eat as well.


David Horsager: What are some routines there you know you


David Horsager: All of these are so critical, but you’re


David Horsager: In the US, anytime at least is in the fitness space, what do


David Horsager: You what do you


David Horsager: What are you intentional eating.


David Horsager: And what are you intentional about doing exercise wise that helps you. I think we talked about a lot here at the institute input equals output. Doesn’t matter if it’s your body or


David Horsager: You know I know for me I gotta try to get five vegetables a day in and almost


David Horsager: Almost two gallons of water. Those are tipping point. But if I do those other things fall into place. Plus, I can handle some ice cream once in a while, you know, so it’s like, what, what, what are the things that you try to do that helped you as far as that that physical on the on


David Horsager: The food. Some of a struggle with that. I was 15 pounds heavier one


David Horsager: Point and I still


David Horsager: Am challenged


davemortensen: Every day it’s work.


David Horsager: But what do you do


davemortensen: The food side because it’s my challenge as well. In fact, I want everyone to be listening, saying, Listen, I’m not a foodie.


davemortensen: I’m not a person who is like


davemortensen: Perfect on the way I eat every day and I struggle in every day. So it’s really taking a little bit out and adding a little positive it’s incremental. I think the best wins and eating healthy


davemortensen: Are incremental wins. Because if you try and do a transformative change. And I see people do this all the time where they just go, Okay, I’ve knocked out everything I love and now I’m eating everything I hate


davemortensen: And I’m giving


davemortensen: Her help, but they’re miserable day they’re miserable in it. Take incremental wins you know take something out if it’s that you know


davemortensen: One time in my life I broke 200 pounds and it was horrible for me and it was when I was drinking what was called and sorry caribou. But I’m going to call you out on this, it’s this thing called a Carmel high rise and I fell in love with that and I simply


davemortensen: Accept out of my diet right and I added a healthy thing into that diet. So it’s knowing when you need to take things out and add things. And the other thing for me is because I was born in an era where you ate everything on your plate.


davemortensen: You know, like everything in, in the US, we all know consumption consumption is such a big deal, just eat a little bit less in what you’re eating.


David Horsager: Those are what uh


David Horsager: But there’s people starving in somewhere. So you got to eat it. That’s what I heard.


davemortensen: You know, I did too. But, you know, it was funny that in an error when


davemortensen: We were starving to know what the food and everything else.


davemortensen: It’s just a matter of being or putting less on your plate.


David Horsager: Because that’s what what’s it. What’s it. What’s the exercise.


David Horsager: regime that you can do a minute.


David Horsager: That’s sticking consistent for


David Horsager: People can be challenged especially busy executives and leaders like


David Horsager: You and what what what are you doing, it’s working.


davemortensen: You know, it’s, I tell everyone, it’s the same thing that we’re works for me that you know when you teach someone how to read a book What Do You okay, how much time. Can you commit the day to reading


davemortensen: Do the same thing with exercise I have found when I work out every day. I am more consistent than I, if I say I’m going to work out three days a week, because you know what happens with three days a week, you


David Horsager: Know,


davemortensen: I got three days out of seven by the end of the week. All of a sudden, I’m going. I haven’t done any


David Horsager: I could not agree with this point more


David Horsager: We are, you know, I started getting cut you here.


David Horsager: It’s like it’s cycle you


davemortensen: Have to put things


David Horsager: In natural cycles.


David Horsager: So when people say to me, as an example, they’re going to meet bi weekly no chance you have to have everything as at there has to be daily


David Horsager: Weekly every Monday morning monthly every first of


David Horsager: Quarterly.


davemortensen: Or annually.


davemortensen: It’s the only


David Horsager: When you think of


David Horsager: Strategic or actions, our habits. They have to be in a cycle that works not this


David Horsager: every six weeks we’ll do this.


David Horsager: Or every other month


David Horsager: every other Tuesday, which Tuesday is that I’m skipping three days a week, whichever ones that I feel like, you know, so that that’s fascinating to me that you


David Horsager: Said that great point.


davemortensen: My in my best place. It’s really between 35 and 40 minutes. My rule of thumb is, I got to work out at least 35 minutes and I cannot work past 45 minutes


David Horsager: Because when you do it.


davemortensen: What’s out


David Horsager: When you do it usually


davemortensen: My best best moments in my life, or when I do it in the morning. Lately it’s been in the afternoons.


davemortensen: Just because I’ve had some change go through life that I’ve had to do that with the kids and everything else going on with schools.


davemortensen: I’ve changed my workout, but I will go back to mornings. And the only reason for me is because one. I hate working out in the mornings and I love getting things checked off on my list. And I know if I do in the mornings I will have it jack


David Horsager: Yeah. Well, I think it’s got to help. At least I think it would help to work where you work at the big


David Horsager: Beautiful. Anytime Fitness offices that have an amazing


David Horsager: Workout centers where you’re trying all the newest equipment. I, I love your facility that’s got to be a


David Horsager: Really cool benefit. Right.


davemortensen: I have an advantage to, you know, exercise, that’s for sure.


David Horsager: Well, that is awesome. How, what are you doing to get better in life. Now, any one of these for simple things. What do you, what are you working on now.


davemortensen: Right now, for me it’s emotional really, it needs to be. I’m going to deepen the spiritual side. But today, right now it’s emotional it’s


davemortensen: Really because of all the adversity that we’ve seen over the last year.


davemortensen: Really deepening the relationships. Our relationships have absolutely changed.


davemortensen: And I don’t just mean at home because at home. Sometimes we deepen those. But those are different to because we’re with them so much more than we were before.


davemortensen: They’ve eroded some of that strength you had when you had that time away, but it’s the same thing and deepening the relationships like you and I


davemortensen: Being able to connect and go to lunch and all the things that you do is we got to change our habits and our routines to deepen some of those relationships.


davemortensen: How are we intentionally doing that is making those connections happen. So it’s just being more intentional about connecting with all the, all the people that surround me. Hmm.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: What do you


David Horsager: Just for you, you know, play is one of the four P’s, what do


David Horsager: You love to do to play or how do you bring played


To work.


davemortensen: Well, there’s there’s couple things is forced play on people, because you know this year has been a year of people have worked so hard.


davemortensen: And you know what, I am a firm believer, the best investment you can make is within yourself.


davemortensen: I always believe if you want to be a giver. I mean, some of the greatest givers in the world. And my first advice is, what do you do for you.


davemortensen: You know, it’s the first question I have problems, everyone. What do you do for you.


davemortensen: For me it’s spontaneity. I love spot as fun right so I love to do enjoyment that you didn’t expect to do it could be waking up in the morning and kids go and let’s go skiing.


davemortensen: It could be, you know what, I’m going to go on a trip. And I’m going to go travel there zombie or golf or some friends, whatever those things are that gets you away. It’s always something for me being active because I’m an active person. I love to be


davemortensen: Active love that. What I advise for people for play is just take time to do it be intentional about it and in foster it in your business.


davemortensen: You know, ask people, What are you doing for fun, that’s such a great question to ask people, and everyone looks at you like, Oh, why are you asking me that you know what


davemortensen: I actually care that you are enjoying life to its fullest beyond what you do here at our business or anything that I’m connecting to


David Horsager: love it so much. Here we’ve got Sam. We’ve got the four P’s who’ve got the


David Horsager: Everyday in let’s see we got


David Horsager: I here’s some takeaways so far.


David Horsager: What did you hear from the front line. How can I be more available authenticity, if you don’t live at the four P’s don’t even matter, matter people purpose performance and play. I love my favorite so far. Culture is


davemortensen: A verb.


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: So let’s say and this key.


David Horsager: About hyper focus


David Horsager: Hey, we got to get to the lightning round. So here we go.


David Horsager: We have so much more we could talk


David Horsager: About but in our last three minutes together. Here we go.


David Horsager: Let’s I saw the went Dan thurman’s book I’m friends with Dan love that one. Any other favorite resource your book right now.


davemortensen: You know, right now. Yeah, yours and I’m waiting to read the full thing that’s


davemortensen: The next book that


David Horsager: Made you all right, trust me leader.


davemortensen: In that everybody read the book because you will gain a lot from that.


David Horsager: Well, thank you.


David Horsager: Something you can’t live without.


davemortensen: Oh geez, I really cannot live without my kids.


davemortensen: You know, I’d say.


davemortensen: Love your kids. Yeah.


David Horsager: Love it, even when you don’t right


David Horsager: Even when you don’t feel like


davemortensen: I know, even when you don’t like them love them.


davemortensen: And take time with them as a collective group, but also take time with them individually. If you have multiple kids.


David Horsager: I remember that about you date need to the kids individually love it best advice you’ve ever been given.


davemortensen: Ever been given. Oh. Oh, you don’t want no this day, I gotta figure out how to say this.


davemortensen: Best advice. I was make it really quick. Um, my dad came home from truck driving one day and I woke up in the morning I was all intentional about, but I was going to be. And I told him what I was going to be any basically said no, you’ll never do that. I wanted to be a truck driver.


davemortensen: And and now I won’t tell you how he worded it to me because it was pretty black and white. It was pretty No you’re not.


davemortensen: Let’s leave it at that.


davemortensen: Why, that was the best advice for me at the time and moment in my life is you can’t ever try and prejudge where you’re going to land.


davemortensen: You have to be intentional about what you do in each and every day and allow life to bring it to you.


davemortensen: Yes, you need to plan for those things. But you have to be ready to ship with those plans and you know what if you’re intentional about what you do, day to day and living the life to your fullest. Guess what.


davemortensen: Your future will be bright. You just got to make sure that you’re living it and not spending so much time trying to live in the summit when you haven’t even started the client.


David Horsager: You’re still passionate about building this culture, you’ve got an amazing family you do volunteer work you help people. I’ve seen your mentor and love and give, give, give, you’ve built. Anytime Fitness waxing. The city base camp, the


David Horsager: Bar method.


David Horsager: One thing left on the bucket list for Dave


Mortensen


davemortensen: Oh, there will never be one thing left right now. I’ll tell you the thing that I’m working on. And this is what I think most leaders need to be working on in life is learning to


davemortensen: Cherish empowerment and understand how to deliver and execute on empowerment


davemortensen: Empowerment to me is something we do not do enough of as leaders and we don’t do enough as parents, and we don’t do enough as individuals and it’s empowering individuals that surround you and giving them the gift of decision making and


davemortensen: I want them to feed that now how you deliver it, and how you follow up with it and how you creatively foster it in your in your organization is important but you stifle people every day in my ultimate gift right now to myself as less stifling and more giving


David Horsager: More giving


David Horsager: That is work I there’s so much we can dig into on empowerment, how we do it, how we how we


David Horsager: Work right for leaders to give. But let’s just


davemortensen: A bucket list.


David Horsager: That’s the bucket list.


David Horsager: Let’s do more of it. Well, it is it is just a privilege to be with you. Where can people find out more about Dave Mortensen Anytime Fitness in the


David Horsager: Self esteem brand.


davemortensen: Obviously you can go to any one of our brands but self esteem brands calm is, of course, one that you can obviously establish connect and go to my LinkedIn profile day Mortensen AF.


davemortensen: Or Twitter either one of those and reach out to me and then I told you I’d give it to you, Dave. I will at 612-991-3939 if you have a question, just text me


David Horsager: I’m pretty lucky to get a whole


David Horsager: Thank you. Well, we’re going to put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com we’ll put how to find him and Dave Mortensen the first time ever.


David Horsager: They born since personal mobile number no leaders done that on the show.


David Horsager: To this point, thank you for that. Hey, final question.


David Horsager: It’s the trusted leader show


David Horsager: Who’s the leader you trust and why


davemortensen: Is a gentleman by the name of Steve Ramat all on there’s many, many people you connect with


davemortensen: A PARTNER IN OUR brands is a brand called work financial if you ever look them up work financial a very, very large portfolio franchise or is


davemortensen: There an investor in in self esteem brands and there is a gentleman that has sat on our board for years has been a leader of brands called like


davemortensen: Branded and others. But the reason I’ve been a big fan of Steve Rahman Allah is because he again.


davemortensen: He’s authentic and when I first met this gentleman as much as if you’ve ever worked the private equity there about the financial influence. The first thing he said is Dave continue to live.


davemortensen: your guys’s culture in your purpose, and I’ll and you know what these prophets will happen. So you just very athletic and the way he leads. He just is. He’s very


David Horsager: I love it.


David Horsager: Wow. Lots here and lots more. We could talk about


David Horsager: Thank you. Thank you for the gift of your time always thank you for the gift of your friendship. Thank you for being an example of a trusted leader and brand and organization and just it’s


David Horsager: It’s a privilege to be on with you and a privilege to know you and you’ll see everything in the show notes. Like I said, trusted leader show.com anyone who wants to connect or has questions.


David Horsager: Thank you for joining us on the trusted leader show. Until next time, stay trusted.

Ep. 13: Jason Dorsey on How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business

In this episode, David sits down with Jason Dorsey, #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor, to discuss how Gen Z will change the future of business.

Jason’s Bio:
Jason Dorsey is on a mission to separate generational myth from truth so leaders can drive results with every generation. Jason is recognized as the #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor. He has been featured on over 200 TV shows from 60 Minutes to the Today Show. As President of The Center for Generational Kinetics, Jason and his team have led more than 65 generational research studies around the world. His clients include many of the biggest global brands as well as rapidly growing startups, PE, and VC. An acclaimed speaker, Jason has received over 1,000 standing ovations. His latest bestselling book is Zconomy: How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business–and What To Do About It. Learn more about Jason at JasonDorsey.com or on his research website, GenHQ.com.

Jason’s Links:
Website: https://jasondorsey.com/
The Center for Generational Kinetics: https://genhq.com/
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondorsey/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasondorsey
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jason.ryan.dorsey
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason_dorsey/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/thegenyguy

Key Quotes:
1. “Every generation brings something important and valuable.”
2. “It’s not about catering to any one generation.”
3. “Frequency of communication is very important.”
4. “Gen Z wants to be heard.”
5. “Provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.”
6. “Communication varies in interpretation by generation.”
7. “Gen Z expects faster access to the money they earn.”
8. “Video is the #1 way to educate Gen Z.”
9. “Every generation is having a different experience in the time of COVID.”
10. “The greatest way to test a culture is to talk to the front line leaders.”
11. “If you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability.”
12. “You want to make it safe for people to ask for help.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
“The Alchemist” by Paulo Coelho: https://amzn.to/2O7Ho3T
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
Apple iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/
Apple iCloud: https://www.apple.com/icloud/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show i’m David Horsager and i’m joined by a special guest, who is also a very close friend we.


Jason Dorsey: love that.


David Horsager: Jason Dorsey welcome.


Jason Dorsey: hey Thank you David really a pleasure to get to be with you and I have this conversation and and share all these great new insights with your fans followers platform and everybody else who’s interested in trusted leadership, because that is important, so thank you for inviting me on.


David Horsager: Thank you, many people know they may not know, but he’s been on the today show he’s been on 60 minutes he is the foremost expert in generations and he’s president of the Center of generational kinetics.


David Horsager: And he’s just he’s a brilliant leader brilliant entrepreneur and business leaders a board member he’s on you know just advising some of the top leaders in the world and i’m just i’m grateful to call you friend Jason so.


David Horsager: yeah going.


Jason Dorsey: yeah glad to be here with you all that stuff is generally true, so thank you for sharing that.


David Horsager: There you go, so you know let’s jump right in because the new book is called Z economy, and you know you’re an expert on generations you’ve been talking about this for decades.


David Horsager: But this new generation I think people are kind of like what what really is that what’s that mean is that gen Z is that this is it that tell us about how does gen Z play into how do we lead them who are they.


Jason Dorsey: yeah I think it’s probably helpful to maybe take a step back and share how we think about generations, and then we can jump into gen Z because.


Jason Dorsey: I think that’ll get anybody on the same page so when we think about generations, the concept.


Jason Dorsey: You know we’re research firm and we specifically do behavioral research and teaching K our company’s called the Center for generational kinetics.


Jason Dorsey: And when we think about gen Z or outside the US we call them Jen said.


Jason Dorsey: we’re really focused on understanding of who they are, what makes them similar what makes them different what technologies do they use, how do they look for a job, what do they look for an employer.


Jason Dorsey: How they think about money and retirement and marriage and all these different types of things, and so in our work, what I think is most important.


Jason Dorsey: Is we’ve uncovered through data through we’ve led more than 65 studies that much of what is said about generations it’s just not true.


Jason Dorsey: And you and I have both live that right i’m a millennial and people say oh millennials are entitled the pencil fallen off they don’t show up for work they’re terrible leaders.


Jason Dorsey: And then we look at the data and it turns out more millennials are working than anyone else so United States and they’re more millennial managers.


Jason Dorsey: Or you say well gen X, you know your engine X can gen X be loyal and what our research shows us they’re incredibly loyal and very good at making decisions and leading.


Jason Dorsey: And so what we’ve uncovered is that every generation bring something really important invaluable and that’s particularly true with gen Z.


Jason Dorsey: Who is very misunderstood and that’s why we wrote the news economy book, thank you for mentioning that we were thrilled it was a number one new release on Amazon and a top 10 business book on forbes so we’re super excited to have that out, so when we think about gen Z.


Jason Dorsey: The first thing to sort of think about is when were they born that helps us to have a little bit of a mental framework to know when they start and stop so based on our research gen Z is born starting around 1996.


Jason Dorsey: and for your listeners, who are based in the US, where that comes from is, they do not remember 911.


Jason Dorsey: And that was one of our most famous discoveries early on, is that, how do we know when millennials and gen Z begins.


Jason Dorsey: Sometimes there’s a generation defining moment you remember it, it creates fear of the unknown uncertainty emotion, all these things for me on 911 I remember, I was in Los Angeles, I was there with my dad.


Jason Dorsey: was totally freaking out my dad was completely stone faced didn’t you know share any emotion, even though we’re watching the same TV.


Jason Dorsey: And about 30 minutes later my grandfather called he was about eight years old, then and and he said J boy it’s going to be okay.


Jason Dorsey: i’ve been through this before we got through it we’ll get through it again it’s going to be okay, I promise.


Jason Dorsey: And so, he was watching 911 and he was thinking about World War Two and for him those Pearl harbor.


Jason Dorsey: My dad years later, told me he was thinking about the Vietnam draft and he thought I was about to get drafted that’s why he had no emotion.


Jason Dorsey: I had no context for this so i’m just freaking out because you know my family’s from New York and I went to school there, and all this.


Jason Dorsey: gen Z this is really key does not remember 911.


Jason Dorsey: it’s not a contemporary event for them it’d be like asking you or me to talk about the JFK assassination we weren’t there we don’t know we can watch on YouTube but it’s not the same, because you don’t have that fear of the unknown.


Jason Dorsey: So that’s What helps us to understand when this gen Z start, and then you get to that what when does gen Z and right yeah it’s like what are the book ends.


Jason Dorsey: And what we what we believe to be true is that gen Z ends around 2015, and the reason is, we believe the capstone event is now coven 19 this pandemic.


Jason Dorsey: And so, as we think about coven 19 and how it’s impacting the generation.


Jason Dorsey: This is there, where were you when moment because Member there now right at that formative stage or in middle school or elementary or they’re in college university or they’re in the workforce.


Jason Dorsey: And all of a sudden everything they’ve known has been offended they had to come back home if they had left the House maybe they can’t leave.


Jason Dorsey: All of these things have suddenly change the job that they were going to do that industry, no longer has any jobs.


Jason Dorsey: there’s so much here, and then you add the social and emotional of homeschool and remote school and just on on on dating and you can’t go to work, like all of this stuff put together.


Jason Dorsey: This is the 911 for gen Z but even more so because it’s extended over.


Jason Dorsey: Such a long period of time so as we think about that the oldest members of gen Z are roughly around 25 years old.


Jason Dorsey: What do we know about them sort of directly to your question, we know they’re the most diverse generation in United States history, more diverse than any previous generation and that’s a huge part of who they are.


Jason Dorsey: What our research shows us is they’re much more tied to social causes when we think about employers, we just did our new state of gen Z study on this.


Jason Dorsey: And the social causes that gen Z really aligns with are incredibly important they look for that before they apply they look for that after they apply, whether or not they’re deciding to accept a job.


Jason Dorsey: And now, they even look at whether or not they’re going to stay with an employer, based on the social causes that the employer selects so, for example.


Jason Dorsey: In the last four years we’ve tracked social causes for employers when it comes to leadership with gen Z most wanted was to know that a company was combating climate change, that was the big sort of rally cry that generation.


Jason Dorsey: But what we’ve seen now is that their big biggest biggest by far rally cry what gets them fired up is social justice and really trying to make some changes there so they’re looking for that and employers that’s changed over the last year.


Jason Dorsey: We also know, a gen Z is they don’t remember a time before the smartphone well that changes everything when you think to your area of expertise.


Jason Dorsey: Around leadership and communication even trust, which are the world expert on all of those things changed.


Jason Dorsey: When your your preferred method of communicating and engaging with the world is a small screen and that’s all you’ve ever know well that affects everything right from banking to onboarding.


Jason Dorsey: So, as we think about the generation, they have a different relationship with technology like right now what we’re tracking is they want onboarding by text message.


Jason Dorsey: Well, many companies aren’t set up to do that they’re not set up to have communication that way.


Jason Dorsey: we’re also seeing with the generation, and this is sort of the last one i’ll leave you with before you jump into your next question.


Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is very frugal with their money, and this is probably the most shocking for many people, because when you think about the.


Jason Dorsey: 19 or 22 year old or 15 year old you think Oh well, they’re out there just sort of blowing their money, whatever they are and they’re spending it and it’s completely the opposite.


Jason Dorsey: This generation was shaped to the great recession and now they’ve seen the economic impact of Kobe and as a result of that what our research shows consistently we do so many of these studies.


Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is much more conservative or practical with their money in fact so important for all your leaders listening.


Jason Dorsey: When gen Z is considering an employer, they want to know the employer is stable well that’s a big difference than a typical teenager early 20 something.


Jason Dorsey: They want to know that employers going to offer them benefits what nine year olds that are what are your benefits well now that’s a common thing.


Jason Dorsey: They want to know that there’s retirement matching These are all things we proved out in our studies and go into detail in the book.


Jason Dorsey: But the key here is what they’re looking for doesn’t match their life stage but it actually does if you experience the events that they experience so they’re very different generation and the key is they’re not millennials to point out.


Jason Dorsey: And what I think is so important about this conversation for the type of work you do.


Jason Dorsey: Is many of the leaders who follow you and learn from you and trust you as a developer and leadership skills.


Jason Dorsey: You know, they were caught flat footed around millennials.


Jason Dorsey: millennials they thought would grow out of it, they didn’t create all kinds of change and now, people are catching up and certainly trying to navigate that the flip side is leaders are now going we don’t want that to happen again.


Jason Dorsey: So So what do we need to know about gen Z and that’s really exciting, because we think this generation bring so much to the workforce, just like every generation does and.


Jason Dorsey: This is a really critical time because right now gen Z is the fastest growing generation on a percentage basis.


Jason Dorsey: And they’re the most consistent generation around the world, so we look at it fastest growing generation, the workforce on a percentage basis.


Jason Dorsey: And the most consistent not exactly the same, but most consistent around the world, so getting gen Z right creates tremendous opportunity for leaders today.


David Horsager: So those opportunities, you know we’ve got up there, the social causes technology frugal is he you know it’s kind of.


David Horsager: easy to say okay everybody every leader now you have to give the best benefit plan give give give give give but what can we do like what are the opportunities, how do we, how do we motivate, how do we create the a place where every generation and gen Z can be their best.


Jason Dorsey: yeah and the way you sort of asked us that question I think it’s really the secret.


Jason Dorsey: it’s not about catering to anyone generation, you know I speak for clients all over the world, now that you and I both live in this virtual presentation.


Jason Dorsey: And everybody wants to know how do we adapt to gen Z or how do we adapt to millennials or whomever.


Jason Dorsey: And it’s important that we think about adapting to them, but we have to do it in the context of not turning off the other generations.


Jason Dorsey: Because we still need all of them they’re all incredibly important.


Jason Dorsey: So when we think about strategies and tactics it’s, what are the things that you can add or do differently generally that are low cost or no cost.


Jason Dorsey: That not only bring out the best to gen Z but also the other generations go wow this is pretty great I want that too.


Jason Dorsey: So as an example that text message onboarding it turns out that lots of generations, like the idea that they can go to that whole process from their mobile device wherever they are, at any time.


Jason Dorsey: Nobody would have guessed that but it turns out.


Jason Dorsey: Trends right now generational trends start with the youngest and interrupting up to the oldest it’s one of our big discoveries, so we think about what gen Z which you can do with gen Z now, these are all things that we see work with other generations to.


Jason Dorsey: The first when it comes to building trust and engagement and alignment, we find that frequency of communication is very important now, I want to.


Jason Dorsey: You know caveat this because there are certain people that are listening right now that just rolled their eyes and said oh great now we got a baby these people like whatever that is absolutely not the case, what we’re actually see as the opposite.


Jason Dorsey: Its frequency of information not amount of information, this is not a two hour annual review right Nobody wants that.


Jason Dorsey: What we find with gen Z is they want quick hit feedback that could be 10 1520 seconds a week, think of it like a text message or.


Jason Dorsey: Something a message on slack or an instant message or a quick video you film we find is the frequency is important, particularly in the time this pandemic in a hybrid work environment.


Jason Dorsey: If they don’t feel you’re talking to them, then they think they’re going to lose their job, and this is really key other generations, they didn’t think that way they thought hey if my boss isn’t talking to me we’re all good.


Jason Dorsey: But gen Z things the opposite, which is if i’m not hearing from my boss i’m probably going to get fired.


Jason Dorsey: And that’s an important distinction to make and then be able to think about that frequency that scales one message to all of them, or just as well as a message, one on one, so the key here is.


Jason Dorsey: Frequency is very, very important for them feeling engage the second thing that we hear, which again ties into your pillars that you do so well.


Jason Dorsey: As gen Z wants to be heard now interestingly it’s not the gen Z expects you to do what they say now, this is the key distinction.


Jason Dorsey: it’s not that they think that they show up and they have all the answers that’s not true, in fact, we see the opposite with gen Z.


Jason Dorsey: But gen Z wants to engage in the conversation be heard be part of that now again, you can use technology to do that, you can do morning huddles you can just make it safe and easy for them to ask a question.


Jason Dorsey: But jen’s ease entering the workforce at an older age than any previous generations in the workforce today.


Jason Dorsey: So they may be 19 or 20 but they may have no experience so they’re going to have questions.


Jason Dorsey: They want to make sure they know to ask, they want to know that they can be heard, so making it easy for them to do an outreach at safe and get a question, so they can say focus.


Jason Dorsey: works like match again everything I just shared cost 01 of my favorite ones, though, is right now we’re seeing which nz is to provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.


Jason Dorsey: And this is where you know, in your line of work sort of trust and communication really come together.


Jason Dorsey: And I see this all the time, because you know me I.


Jason Dorsey: Work with all these executives a sermon lots of corporate boards i’m really passionate about helping senior execs create the right culture and then making sure that cultures represented.


Jason Dorsey: From from the bottom up, rather than just the top down, which is what people try to do, and then it, you know doesn’t necessarily work, we want to make sure that people are on board.


Jason Dorsey: And one of the things we find is that communication varies and interpretation by generation.


Jason Dorsey: So if I said to somebody Okay, make sure you show for a meeting on time.


Jason Dorsey: Well, that can mean something very different based on generation, even though the person who said it was super clear or Jason make sure you deliver great customer service well if you’re in one generation great customer service might be chat.


Jason Dorsey: It might be a text message with an emoji and somebody else says will pick up the phone and call me or we need to meet face to face socially distance.


Jason Dorsey: So what we find is with gen Z as you create videos of the examples of what you want, so if you want customer service to look a certain way.


Jason Dorsey: make a 15 second video there’s tons of different programs that can do that, right now, that will enable you to message that out now before again people roll their eyes and go gosh Jason now we’ve got to coddle these people that is totally bunk.


Jason Dorsey: What i’m saying is when you talk with a different generation and you say something you think is really clear to you.


Jason Dorsey: they’re putting it through a filter and what comes out the other side may be may not be what you want, particularly true right now in a hybrid environment.


Jason Dorsey: And, as a result both of you are disappointed So what do you do, you make a video you make it one time, save you hours and hours and tons of times they learn faster and here’s the key that leaders want.


Jason Dorsey: You can then hold them accountable because you’ve shown them what success looks like.


Jason Dorsey: And that’s that’s magic right, I mean it just it’s such a big deal to give people a roadmap for success so they can then make sure and deliver on that.


Jason Dorsey: And then sort of the last piece, which is really into the weeds but I know you’re in the details which I love is that we’re finding that gen Z is coming of age, expecting faster access to the money they earn.


Jason Dorsey: This is one of those that I think is going to ripple up to the other generations again so it’s called earned wage access we talked about this a lot in this economy book gen Z is going to come of age.


Jason Dorsey: Having always been able to have access to the money they earned every day there’s all these different services that do it, we talked about in the book.


Jason Dorsey: And so, if your first job was working at a restaurant or in retail or anywhere, maybe you’re doing some gig economy job you finish that day you get a message and it says Jason.


Jason Dorsey: I saw you earn $54 and 12 cents day, would you like half your money astronaut, and you click yes, the money shows up instantly your account with no fees all the sudden.


Jason Dorsey: you’ve only known, the ability to get paid every day, when you need it.


Jason Dorsey: And I think that’s a big systemic shift that has huge implications across all the other generations, because what we find in our research is other generations ago well i’d like that, too, and I need it, that sounds great there’s no downside there’s no cost.


Jason Dorsey: Why waiting two weeks so it’s these sorts of things that gen Z will only know and then bring into the workforce and infuse themselves, which is incredibly exciting if you’re a generational researcher like we are.


David Horsager: love it so there’s two things i’m thinking about right now, you said something a little bit ago you know about culture and we talk a whole lot about driving high performing cultures on trust and in essence.


David Horsager: A lot of what you’re doing is that.


David Horsager: So how you said something about differentiating between top down and bottom up, how do you do it differently to create culture from the bottom and the top.


Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, so what we find is that when we work with senior execs and you know that’s typically who i’m working with.


Jason Dorsey: is getting them to sort of bring to life the culture for some of them it’s really easy for lots of them it’s really hard.


Jason Dorsey: Maybe the culture was established before they got there, maybe somebody picked whatever the statement was.


Jason Dorsey: Like there’s something there that seems to be a little bit of a divider a disconnect between who they are, and how they’re leading and what the company is viewed at in terms of culture that sort of DNA.


Jason Dorsey: So we work with them to really get clear on that process now you’re much better at that than I am i’m just bringing you a generational lens to it.


Jason Dorsey: But once we get them to get clear on what that is right that sort of culture piece of work, the trick then becomes, how do you message it in a way that other generations, all the way down to the front lines absolutely believe.


Jason Dorsey: That is sort of the secret that’s the magic and that’s what we’re really good at because it’s the messaging if you want to think about it’s like a.


Jason Dorsey: filter or we’re trying to help a message we know we want the message to be, but we know different generations are going to hear differently, even by the way, geographies genders, we go through a whole bunch of different things that we study, so one of the ways for example yeah.


David Horsager: Give us a quick example like just something quick like this generation takes it like this, this like this, this like this because we’ve got all these generations, the workplace, what would be an example, so we understand it.


Jason Dorsey: yeah so an example, might be, you know our culture is all about professionalism well.


Jason Dorsey: What in the world, does that mean, this is a sort of thing I hear all the time right.


Jason Dorsey: So if you take professionalism and you give two or three examples that each generation will understand, then all the sudden they go I got it right.


Jason Dorsey: Or if you write it in a way that doesn’t sound fake that’s better, but what we like to do is, we like to get them to put it into video, because what we know is video is the number one way to educate gen Z.


Jason Dorsey: Also, by the way, truth is millennials so putting it in a written word and posting it somewhere, making it your backdrop, whatever that doesn’t work.


Jason Dorsey: They want to see the video they want to see it come to life, and they want to see an embodied and so when we go all the way down to the front lines.


Jason Dorsey: What we find out is this, and this is really key for our type of culture work, which is when you go to the front lines, the most important and influential person of culture.


Jason Dorsey: Is what we call the local leader, and that is the person that the front lines interact with on a weekly basis and here’s basically how it looks a simple example.


Jason Dorsey: You probably saw all these executives say during this time of Kobe we’re all in this together.


Jason Dorsey: And if you’re a follower of our work, which I know you are I came out really hard against that and said that is totally not true.


Jason Dorsey: People say that it’s well intentioned if they mean well, but our research shows conclusively look we’ve done all these studies it’s all for free on our website.


Jason Dorsey: That every generation is having a different experience in the time of covert.


Jason Dorsey: At the same time geographies are different social economics are different when we go through a whole list so yes we’re all experiencing this at the same time, but the experience is very different.


Jason Dorsey: So, then, the executives go and they message out we’re going to do this we’re going to do that, we got you covered well, the first thing that local leader does has to do.


Jason Dorsey: Is they have to make sure that they truly believe and repeat what the executive just said.


Jason Dorsey: Because this is what we know happens, we see it all the time in our work that people on the front lines go to their boss, and say I saw it, you know Bob or Sally or you know, whoever said in their video they sent out to everybody, is it true.


Jason Dorsey: And that is the moment where the culture becomes real on the front lines.


Jason Dorsey: If those frontline managers do not ECHO it it’s not believed it doesn’t stick it’s just a talking head and we might as well just move on and so for me.


Jason Dorsey: The greatest way to test the culture is to talk to the frontline leaders and see if they are the backstop for what they believe to be true around that culture that’s what makes all the difference in the world.


David Horsager: let’s take a little pivot here because I think you would you would have some experience with this even though it’s not so much a generational issue but it surely is that today issue and that is.


David Horsager: You know, talking about accountability and leadership of all these different generations a big challenge today is remote and virtual.


David Horsager: How do we create.


David Horsager: accountability, how do and how do we create healthy culture and how do we, how do we do some of these things, how to in our case, how do we build trust.


Virtually.


Jason Dorsey: Yes, so yeah we’ve done a number of studies on this, we have lots of clients, because our sort of retainer work is exactly addressing this.


Jason Dorsey: And so I think it’s worth sharing that 99% of all companies were not prepared to end up in a remote or hybrid world.


Jason Dorsey: So anybody listening who’s going, yes, I totally get it you’re not alone, this is a completely normal, this is an experience of companies all sizes all levels are having.


Jason Dorsey: Now they have different levels of resources, different you know geographic breakdown certain things like that.


Jason Dorsey: and, frankly, in some of our clients are not really experiencing this as much if you work in a restaurant you’re still showing up if you’re a retail grocery are still showing up there’s elements that have become hybrid.


Jason Dorsey: But for many companies, this was a now a fully remote or at least mostly remote experience well, what do we know drives in your case trust, but also in our case alignment and performance and accountability.


Jason Dorsey: And I think the trick with accountability is accountability has a bad reputation, because often managers and leaders use it as a gotcha.


Jason Dorsey: Right it’s punitive high cost you, and when you come at it from that standpoint versus we all have a role to play in order to be successful.


Jason Dorsey: You automatically put people on the defensive and they go whoa I don’t want accountability, because what drives accountability.


Jason Dorsey: You know what’s the Court transparency if you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability, so now what we’ve seen is this big wide swath of.


Jason Dorsey: I want to know everything you’re doing there’s technology out there, right now, today, that takes pictures of employees every 30 seconds or every minute or whatever.


Jason Dorsey: And that’s supposed to you know build trust and create transparency and they say hey we know you’re picking your nose it’s Okay, we all pick our nose, we all want to photo of that but there’s that there’s the other extreme, which is.


Jason Dorsey: We just trust you to get it done we don’t care how you did it other than the fact that you did it based on the requirements we have We trust you and you’re going to deliver it to us.


Jason Dorsey: Now, the problem is somewhere in the middle right, so what we see is daily huddles and daily check ins are incredibly important primarily with small groups.


Jason Dorsey: there’s this idea that we need to have these daily check ins or meetings with large groups, once you get above about 20 people can slide into the background, I would even argue 10 but So the idea, there is.


Jason Dorsey: whenever you do, on your daily group to kick that off like in our case at our company, here we do one every morning it’s from 830 to 8:35am.


Jason Dorsey: And during that period of time we all get aligned, we all know what we’re going to do we let people know in our case, the one thing we’re going to absolutely get done today.


Jason Dorsey: And then they do another one later in the day that i’m, not even a part of because it’s a smaller group, and so the idea here is how do we create that cadence of alignment and credibility so accountability isn’t a gotcha.


Jason Dorsey: and part of that is, you have to let people raise their hand if they’re stuck on the way.


Jason Dorsey: And that’s important, especially in a hybrid nobody wants to be like oh i’m the weak link so, then what happens.


Jason Dorsey: They don’t raise their hand all of a sudden, you miss a deadline and you had no insight into it, so you want to make it safe for people to ask for help, not for them to do your job for you.


Jason Dorsey: But for them to be able to ask for help and say hey i’m stuck here can you take something off me, so I can really work on this today, so making it safe to raise their hand.


Jason Dorsey: And then I think you have to have spacing of those goals in such a way that people know their soul line.


Jason Dorsey: So, in most cases that’s a weekly goal or bi weekly I think monthly is way too on people can get lost in the weeds they can get sidetracked and so forth, and then, of course, those sheep flock to wherever they need to go.


Jason Dorsey: But the key thing here when we think about that accountability piece is you don’t want people to feel like they’re on an island and you’re just trying to catch them doing something wrong.


Jason Dorsey: It absolutely crushes culture it crushes performance.


Jason Dorsey: But you don’t want to micromanage so you want to make it safe for them to do the check ins let you know that they’re aligned.


Jason Dorsey: And then, if you use things like slack there’s tons of these different workforce collaboration.


Jason Dorsey: You know there’s ways to do this that’s also by a tech we just did a big study that looked at workforce collaboration in the US Europe and other countries.


Jason Dorsey: And what we found is, and this, I think, is really important people didn’t need the latest technology.


Jason Dorsey: This is very important, they did not need the latest technology in fact they didn’t really want it, they just wanted enough technology to be effective.


Jason Dorsey: And I think you have people out there all around the world right now going how am I am more effective.


Jason Dorsey: In terms of being able to deliver results, give me at least the minimum technology, I need to be successful, help me to create alignment, let me raise my hand as I go.


Jason Dorsey: And if something’s not working, let me be able to take some time to fix it or is that and say hey Can you help me, so I I think hybrid absolutely works.


Jason Dorsey: And we’ve proven that now there’s tons of companies, in fact, many companies, I work with like Jason we may never go back.


Jason Dorsey: And so there’s a whole hot debate there, we could spend an hour on but fundamentally, the idea is that we’ve got to make.


Jason Dorsey: hybrid work, and I think the way that people come at it and you know i’ve talked about this before a lot of people come at this and they go, you know this is terrible or it’s uncomfortable I don’t like it or people are in their pajamas or whatever.


Jason Dorsey: But the reality is I, like the other approach, which is how do we make this the best work experience, while this is experienced for having.


Jason Dorsey: Do we change it in a year people go back to sure that’s what works for you, but instead of approaching this as that’s.


Jason Dorsey: Terrible or it’s you know all these things are I don’t like it because I don’t like to be on video.


Jason Dorsey: Like just go the opposite, how do we make this as amazing as possible, so our employees are fired up so i’m leading and delivering results in a way that everybody’s coming with, and that means turn off the video and turn off the video.


Jason Dorsey: But focus on the outcome with them and you’ll see that people really rise to the challenge in this hybrid time.


David Horsager: I love it I love the idea, a friend of mine CEO of a great MED tech company said.


David Horsager: You know, in the in the war college he learned, he said something that has been helping him, he says that book of when I first went in the war college in the 1980s, they taught this.


David Horsager: When you find when you have volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity don’t spend all your time on things you can’t control but think of what can I control number one and number two what should I do first.


David Horsager: And that’s this time, what can you do hey, this is the environment we’re in quit talking about when it’s gonna come back or this or that but what can we do right now in this environment, and when you do that there’s a whole lot more than you thought at first right.


Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, and I want to say to that point, you know as you start to learn from your friend there is that you know.


Jason Dorsey: there’s a perception out there, that you got to be young to do well in this hybrid environment, but that is totally absolutely bunk.


Jason Dorsey: I work with baby boomers all the time, who frankly are better technology than I am, and if you’ve ever heard me speak at all these events always talk about boomers invented the technology.


Jason Dorsey: So that I think we have to step back from that’s where preconceived notion that just be a certain age to do well in this environment.


Jason Dorsey: Like we’re all learning in this period of time and let’s go and let people shine and do their best whether you’re 18 or 80 you can absolutely make it work it’s just choosing to him letting people give them the space to be able to rise to that challenge that I think is incredibly exciting.


David Horsager: Absolutely, you know it’s the trusted leader show, so we have a few quickfire quick lightning round questions for you, before we get there, though.


David Horsager: Where can we find out more about you will put all this in the show notes at trusted leader show.com trusted leader show.com we’ll put it all there where can we find the book where can we find out about what you’re doing at the Center for generational kinetics.


Jason Dorsey: yeah absolutely thanks for those interested in our research we do put lots of it on our website for free, and so you can just go to jenn HQ je n HQ COM.


Jason Dorsey: And click on state of gen Z and you can download the report see all the different studies we have multiple studies going, you can get them all, all totally for free, we just want to separate myth from truth.


Jason Dorsey: If you want information about me speaking or the type of advisory board work I do you can go to my own website, which is Jason dorsey calm J s O n D R es.


Jason Dorsey: calm and if you’re interested in the book it’s called Z economy how gen Z will change the future of business and what to do about it Dave actually helped me with the book title so shout out to Dave on that one.


David Horsager: I remember it.


yeah.


Jason Dorsey: It was awesome day and you can get it on Amazon or wherever you choose to buy your books or listen to them and, yes, I actually did the audiobook.


Jason Dorsey: So you can listen to that too, which was really fun and way harder than it sounds so and the big news is on that I just want to share.


Jason Dorsey: I don’t know if people can see the video of they’ll be able to but behind me right here.


Jason Dorsey: Is our new copy from South Korea, we just got our first South Korean addition we’ve got Ukraine coming out and Brazil and Turkey and several other so.


Jason Dorsey: it’s been incredible to see how people have connected with the book and put it to you so thanks for letting me share all those days, I really appreciate.


David Horsager: it’s it’s just a wealth of information, this year Center is the absolute.


David Horsager: place to find the leading content and research and insights on generations, how they work together how to motivate inspire and create really high trust cultures.


David Horsager: And from a generational standpoint so it’s so excited to have you on we got some quickfire questions, right here a sentence or two each let’s get started.


David Horsager: we’re going to get personal here first you’re a you’re a leader, that I trust your friend that I trust, but let’s just take your leadership, because you’ve been leading a big team you’ve let it several companies you’re on several boards.


David Horsager: You lead, even in your home so what’s what you know what kind of habits personally a habits or routines he talked about you know, to lead others you gotta lead yourself it what’s something you do to lead yourself.


Jason Dorsey: I would say, the best thing I do as a habit is I journal almost every day, and I find that that taken that, in my case happens to be about half an hour to reflect on the day.


Jason Dorsey: always gives me a sense of clarity and often realizations that I just don’t get on you know zoom meetings all day and everything else, so that that sort of touched on, for me, is is journaling and i’ve done it since I was 18 years old, when I wrote my first book so.


David Horsager: it’s unbelievable how many great leaders have said that over the past several shows, as the routine it’s just amazing what what’s a favorite book or resource right now.


Jason Dorsey: i’m favorite book or resource right now candidate I got an advanced copy of yours, and I really loved it so thanks for that letting me read that that was super inspiring I would say.


Jason Dorsey: outside of that.


Jason Dorsey: Right now i’ve just been reading a bunch of sort of perspective books i’m reading the alchemist for probably the 58th time and I find that every time I read it it’s I still get something new, out of it so yeah I have a habit of reading books, I like.


Jason Dorsey: Because I find a different life stages, they bring something new and that’s certainly one of those and Center for me.


David Horsager: And all that will be in the show notes and great advice so what’s what’s something you’re learning right now just life personal, professional.


Jason Dorsey: yeah I would say the biggest thing i’m learning, which probably sounds really cheesy to others, but I think you may appreciate i’m learning how to be home.


Jason Dorsey: And so, for those not familiar with my speaking or work i’ve traveled more than 200 days a year often 250 or more, since I turned 19 years old and wrote my first book and so a month into the pandemic I had been home more.


Jason Dorsey: In a calendar year than I had since I was 19 and my wife and I we’ve been married now for almost 15 years.


Jason Dorsey: And we have a nine year old daughter named Ryan who’s loved my life and lots of about her in the book and so.


Jason Dorsey: Being home and learning how to be present at home with them is something i’ve really worked on, you know Denise and I, my wife, have always had a really great relationship.


Jason Dorsey: Ryan, I have really worked at that, and now it’s just been magical you know I.


Jason Dorsey: Take her to school and the weeks that she goes in person, which is every other week and then we have breakfast together and I cook dinner and just.


Jason Dorsey: You know, being present at home versus it being an event to be home it’s just been really magical for me and and it’s taken a while like for everybody.


Jason Dorsey: But, but it has been the greatest gift that’s come out of this sort of unintended consequence and I love it, and now that we’re doing all this retainer and advisory work where I get to stay home i’m i’m digging it and I think i’m going to do a lot more of a going for it so.


David Horsager: Absolutely.


David Horsager: Do you have a favorite APP or gadget right now.


Jason Dorsey: A favorite APP or gadget well, I would say my favorite thing right now is I just got a new iPhone and.


Jason Dorsey: And I absolutely love it and I would say my favorite gadget if somebody gets it is icloud I just love the idea that we can do so much of our work in the cloud right now.


Jason Dorsey: And the more that i’ve embraced that in our team has, I feel that the higher performing we are and we’re able to just.


Jason Dorsey: Not just do things and have them fall away on a computer, but really you know be accessible and searchable and I think for me what’s happened.


Jason Dorsey: Is it’s enabled me to keep better track of learning as I go and that’s whether that’s notes or some of these others I just I find it really exciting.


Jason Dorsey: to feel almost liberated from a physical device and and that’s something that i’ve really embraced and love so yeah really sort of leaning into that one because it’s it does just change so many things.


David Horsager: Absolutely favorite piece of advice.


Jason Dorsey: I think my favorite piece of advice, at least.


Jason Dorsey: That at least that’s been my favorite piece of advice, since I was 18 because that’s what I used to assign it in the books.


Jason Dorsey: Was that anything is possible if you believe in yourself, and I know that’s certainly been something that i’ve had to live, you know I started out wrote my first book slept on the floor for quite a long time nobody believed to me, in fact, that was designed and so.


Jason Dorsey: Right well I I slept in it on the floor of a garage apartment and many couches along the way, but yeah just trying to.


Jason Dorsey: Not homeless in the sense of homeless, but.


Jason Dorsey: You know, definitely started on the floor with me and a bunch of books and cut off, and it was the best thing that ever happened but, like any.


Jason Dorsey: Any journey, such as that there’s definitely those moments of doubt, and all those sort of things and going back to that you know anything is possible if you believe in yourself, you know I.


Jason Dorsey: Remember dreaming about being on a TV show and ended up on the.


Jason Dorsey: Show over and over again, or getting to travel outside the US that was a big deal for me and then getting go speak and all these countries around the world and.


Jason Dorsey: You know, writing a book this bestseller and then having a best selling book and all these sorts of things, I can still go back to those journal pages and really just believing in that even when when nobody else did, and I just think that has a powerful impact on people’s.


Jason Dorsey: Lives so.


David Horsager: One link one thing left for Jason dorsey in this life one thing lyft Jason wants to do.


Jason Dorsey: For me, I would like to live with my wife outside the US we really not right now, of course, but.


Jason Dorsey: At some point Denise and I would really love to spend some time living abroad we’ve traveled a lot internationally.


Jason Dorsey: You know, as I know you have and we really want to experience living somewhere outside the US for a little while and so we’re excited to try that out when the time is right, I have no idea if that’s been 10 years or whatever, but that’s something we’re really fired up to get to do.


Jason Dorsey: Great.


David Horsager: All these ideas, thoughts and recommendations will be at trusted leader show calm in the notes it’s the time for the last question, we ask it every time, this is a trusted leader show leader you trust and why.


Jason Dorsey: You know funny enough, I would say the LEADER I trust, and why is Denise my wife.


Jason Dorsey: And I know you made the joke about I lead at the House, I certainly try but Denise is is just shown her resilience and stability and integrity.


Jason Dorsey: Over and over and over again, and all kinds of situations she’s had to deal with in life, as you know, she was.


Jason Dorsey: You know, a teacher and then a principal and very difficult schools and then worked in lots of nonprofits and then founded for profit company and then you know continues to grow and.


Jason Dorsey: I just really love the fact that she can bring a sense of calmness and certainty and inclusion, which I think is really powerful for leaders to do right now and and it’s just you know.


Jason Dorsey: I don’t have some of the skills that she has, I mean she really has a very specific way of leading.


Jason Dorsey: In fact, she leads to Austin right now in this, as you can imagine, is a very difficult time to lead an organization like that meets in person, when you can.


Jason Dorsey: And just seeing how she navigates that is really an example to me, of how I want to continue to grow as a leader so she would be the one yeah sorry I didn’t have a big one, but that’s the one of the biggest impact on my life.


David Horsager: So Jason is you know he is the expert on generations, but he also is genuinely a.


David Horsager: dear friend you’ll notice in the new book coming out very soon trusted leader show he excuse me trusted leader book cut that out right he’s gonna clip that.


David Horsager: you’ll notice in the new book trusted leader that Jason is one of the very few people that the book is dedicated to because I really do trust them i’m grateful for you Jason i’m grateful for how you’ve made me better and.


David Horsager: So I just want to thank you for sure you and state and wisdom today, and thanks for being my friend.


Jason Dorsey: wow well that’s a that’s heavy what you just shared, thank you for that i’m very grateful, I had no idea that I was in your book, so thank you and the dedication is.


Jason Dorsey: wow Thank you Dave that means so much to me, so thank you and i’m grateful for you and all that you’ve taught me so thank you so much for for living by example, everything that you talked about which I think is very rare and a real gift to the world so thanks for having me on today.


David Horsager: Thank you, with that it’s been the trusted leader show, and until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 12: Michele Freeman on How to Lead During a Crisis

In this episode, David sits down with Michele Freeman, former Chief of the Department of Public Safety for the City of Las Vegas, to discuss how to lead during a crisis.

Michele’s Bio:
Michele Freeman began her law enforcement career in 1992 with the City of Las Vegas Department of Public Safety and retired in 2020, after serving as the Chief for almost ten years. Under her leadership, the department advanced through progressive 21st-century strategies essential in contemporary law enforcement. She is a member of several organizations including, the American Jail Association, International Chiefs of Police, Federal Bureau of Investigation National Academy and sits on the boards for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, and Trauma Intervention Program where she continues to devote her life work to enhancing others, especially in the mental health arena.

Michele’s Links:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MFreemanvegas
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-freeman-8933b845/

Key Quotes:
1. “Be where our feet are.”
2. “Nobody is more valuable than another person.”
3. “You have to think about the human side.”
4. “The people are what matter.”
5. “Without people, you don’t have anything.”
6. “If you have the choice to be right or kind: choose kind.”
7. “There is no need that you have to be right all the time.”
8. “Always be true to yourself.”
9. “Lead with love.”
10. “The foundation of every relationship is trust.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Positive Quotes for Everyday” by Patricia Lorenz: https://amzn.to/3dI2tMZ

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have a special guest today, she has been in law enforcement for 28 and a half years, she was police chief at the city of Las Vegas i’ll do that formally she was the.


David Horsager: Chief of the department of public safety at the city of Las Vegas she has just done an amazing job there, and she was trusted certified we’ve been able to do some fun.


David Horsager: exciting work in the city of Las Vegas i’m grateful for that i’m grateful because you know she really reflects this work around trust, as we say on stage and off at work at home and and she’s become a friend, so please welcome just retired chief Michelle freeman how you doing today.


Michele Freeman: i’m great Thank you so much for having me it’s such a pleasure to be here and I really appreciate that welcome.


Michele Freeman: And yes, i’m glad we become friends you’ve been very inspirational for me and it’s been just a wonderful time getting to know you and learning through you and learning and living by actually the eight pillars of trust, quite honestly, well.


David Horsager: I, I am grateful and i’m grateful for everything that’s happened, the city Las Vegas and just the partnership there, and especially you know getting to see you and and there’s just what a great great great family, you have out there of people.


Michele Freeman: Right, since I mean you are up.


David Horsager: In the fourth 28 and a half years so let’s just give us a background, I know you went to the FBI academy and all these things but give our listeners we’ve got leaders from.


David Horsager: CEOs to presidents of countries and companies and sports teams listening and you know have people around the world, but give us the.


David Horsager: Just what’s that what’s the background of Michelle freeman and your leadership and from grown up a little bit to the FBI academy and on to 28 and a half years wow.


Michele Freeman: yeah so thank you so let’s see i’ll start in New York, because that’s where i’m originally from so I left New York to come to Las Vegas.


Michele Freeman: I am in internally I love New York, and I was a big new yorker I came to the Las Vegas and it was a bit of a culture shock, I have to say.


Michele Freeman: And now that I reflect back it’s really funny because I loved the food back there right, so it was really hard for me, you know a good piece of pizza is very important right, we want a good piece of pizza and so.


Michele Freeman: slice of pizza and so that was really hard and then coming here back when I did, which was in.


Michele Freeman: 89 I came out to Vegas and it was a culture shock, because it seems very slow to me back then so here, I am very fast paced New York, and then we come over to.


Michele Freeman: Vegas and I go into the store and I go into the stores and i’m sitting there, and people are talking and i’m like just buy your products and let’s go.


Michele Freeman: Little did I know right, because this is before.


Michele Freeman: I come out here before my 21st birthday and so i’ve been out here a long time, and so little did I know that building trust was just that.


Michele Freeman: was being and enjoying where you’re at being where your feet are and enjoying the moment and conversing with people so that’s where I kind of started and I came to Vegas and I remember a friend of mine said to me.


Michele Freeman: Oh, you know you’re gonna wait until you see it, because you know new york’s cold it snows it has seasons.


Michele Freeman: latency you see the first winter you’re going to be incredibly just like beside yourself because normally.


Michele Freeman: we’re all bundled up, but in New York right snow blizzard that kind of thing no so in Vegas she says we’re going to go on campus because I came out here to finish school.


Michele Freeman: My undergrad at you know they were going to be on campus and you’re going to see people that are gonna be all bundled up scarves and hats and mittens on warm jackets so sure enough, the very first ones are i’m here.


Michele Freeman: I see all this i’m in a sweat shirt and shorts right little winter, it was December I remember this everyone else bundled up and jackets and well you know cozy and then the very next winter it wasn’t very funny anymore, I was the bundled up one right.


Michele Freeman: So I quickly convert it to the Las Vegas lifestyle I learned how to say Nevada correctly, so I now love and appreciate my culture that I have here so with That being said.


Michele Freeman: let’s see I started in the department of public safety and.


Michele Freeman: As a corrections officer and then I moved through the ranks and like you said I landed in in the position as chief.


Michele Freeman: appreciate it, the responsibilities that would give them with me they’re appreciated everything that I was given love the city of Las Vegas and everything that I got.


Michele Freeman: From there building the relationships cultivating and maintaining them throughout the years and it was really hard to depart right so.


Michele Freeman: So that’s where i’m at now, you mentioned the FBI National Academy what an offer that I couldn’t refuse it was such an opportunity that I never was expecting.


Michele Freeman: You know, not very many people get to go to the National Academy made friends internationally so there’s over 200 people that got to go to quantico for over two and a half years.


Michele Freeman: And you had like it was kind of like a call it a three prong you had academia, you had to take actual college credits very strict schedule and then you also had your.


Michele Freeman: Your physical part, so you had to do your physical challenges.


Michele Freeman: And then you had your networking, which was by far, of course, the most important piece because it’s all about building trusting relationships right and that’s where I really was able to cultivate so many more relationships around the world.


David Horsager: hey you know after that now just to we’re going to go back to being chief and some of the challenges, you had the the shooting of 2017 you’ve had some big challenges you’ve had to be a part of lead in.


David Horsager: Racial unrest right before you retired and how you’ve had to step up as a leader, and when I think Michelle freeman I think of this.


David Horsager: wonderfully fast paced loving, I think you go by this quarter, I remember that lead with love, I remember, you said that to me lead with love right, but this loving kind but also this kind of.


David Horsager: spit fire ready to step up for the challenge that’s needed to love all and deal with all these big challenges that we have before we get there.


David Horsager: You know jump ahead because you’re learning today you’re jumping ready, you said you’re retiring and your husband’s playing golf and and.


David Horsager: Having a whole lot of fun and you jump right into a doctorate in Michelle style that can’t slow down tell us just a glimpse about that, and what you’re learning now and what do you hope with that.


Michele Freeman: yeah absolutely so.


Michele Freeman: I have been on this path, this really great journey and it’s very interesting, so my doctoral degree, will be in public policy.


Michele Freeman: it’s a very cool program it’s not a typical degree with it she’s a PhD, this is a inaugural program that I got to enter in with my very first cohort it started three years ago i’m going to be graduating hopefully in May.


Michele Freeman: We cross our fingers on that i’m almost there, but the light is blurry but it’s there you know, at the end of the tunnel.


Michele Freeman: And it’s in public policy which is very interesting because that’s not where I necessarily ever thought i’d be I actually had started going back for a psychology psychiatry and.


Michele Freeman: And, and you know life changes it takes a different path, sometimes, but why i’m doing this and why it’s so important, is my focus is.


Michele Freeman: Helping officers and it’s educating and assessing and preventing Suicide Prevention for law enforcement officers and i’ve been trying to help change the culture for over two decades with.


Michele Freeman: Recognizing and making a culture that’s that’s okay to not be okay for mental and emotional health to be just as good as physical health or just as important, excuse me as physical health.


Michele Freeman: Because, all of them bleed together right it’s and and they reflect one another and it’s so important to speak that, and you know, here we are, as police officers.


Michele Freeman: Law enforcement officers and we’re supposed to be the ones taking care and helping others so it’s very hard for us to be the ones to recognize that we need assistance and so culturally it’s just not something we.


Michele Freeman: entered into that’s not how you entered into it, especially when I began, you know so many years ago in 1992 so my goal is to help change the culture help with some.


Michele Freeman: With a policy change and to continue working on resiliency working on self care working on how can we be okay with not being Okay, and knowing that we’re all going to fall down at some point.


Michele Freeman: How do we get back up, how do we practice so that we can get back up quicker and how do we say you know what I need help.


David Horsager: How do you, you know this is interesting because a lot of our leaders are listening and they’re going 100 miles an hour there.


David Horsager: Some of them have focused so much on their role, their work, their mission they’ve lost their home their family and their health and that’s that’s certainly in policing that certainly in you know, a whole lot of other types of leadership that we whether it’s government or.


David Horsager: Corporate or even superintendents of schools, you know, so what what maybe let’s get real personal here, what have you done yeah.


David Horsager: I mean if people don’t see on the screen and they’re just listening to podcasts and not watching the video in front of me on screen, is a very vibrant health, the.


David Horsager: Lady that if you meet her, she is full of energy and just you know beautifully healthy, how do you stay healthy because physically emotionally i’m sure you had ups and downs, too, but what do you do personally to just keep.


David Horsager: Keep keep healthy when you get the weight of the world and the weight of all those challenges kind of in Vegas and leadership and all these things on you, what did you do and what do you continue to do, maybe routine wise even.


Michele Freeman: yeah no thanks for the question, and it is really important, because.


Michele Freeman: And I think I think what’s important and i’ll share me is, we all need to recognize that it’s not a one size size fits all right.


Michele Freeman: there’s a lot of things we can do that are really simple but it not may not always be easy, especially during times of like sadness depression.


Michele Freeman: or times, where you’re just feeling down or in a rut right because we’re all going to have something that’s going to happen in life.


Michele Freeman: there’s gonna be some kind of trauma or tragedy that will eventually happen, whether it’s small or large it doesn’t matter, sometimes it affects us right.


Michele Freeman: So one thing that I love to do on a daily basis is I love positive quotes i’m always searching for positivity i’m always looking for positive quotes.


Michele Freeman: So that’s something that’s inspiration, you know, for me, I love to listen to positive podcasts I definitely meditate.


Michele Freeman: So this was a hard one for me to get into because I was like I can’t meditate my brain is always moving i’m always on the go I can never just settle it.


Michele Freeman: And then, finally I realized you’re not supposed to settle it you’re supposed to understand and accept and work through it, so I got to learn what meditation was really about.


Michele Freeman: And now I really enjoy it don’t get me wrong, I don’t always have a good meditation sometimes it doesn’t work to my advantage.


Michele Freeman: But it just so helpful and i’m belly breathing just breathing because a lot of times what happens is especially in you know in high fast paced jobs, regardless whether it’s policing or something else right.


Michele Freeman: we’re on the go and we’re breathing up here, which is, which you know is your chest area.


Michele Freeman: Well that’s kind of like your fighter flight area, you want to be breathing from your down your belly breaths So if you actually breathe and you get a full deep breath into your belly.


Michele Freeman: that’s going to help regulate your breath and even just like sitting up in a structure that strong posture and then relax see if you’re you’re holding your shoulders just relax them.


Michele Freeman: You can feel such a difference in like when you stand like, with your shoulders up.


Michele Freeman: You can feel such a difference in the tension of your body so there’s so many little things that you know I practice, and you can do them like in a meeting.


Michele Freeman: You can literally ground yourself and just help relax because sometimes you know we’re in a meeting and I know i’ve even lead meetings that people are like oh.


Michele Freeman: When is she going to be done with this meeting i’m you know i’m ready to be done, and conversely i’ve also sat in meetings where i’m like.


Michele Freeman: I don’t think i’m listening anymore and realize I better get back into it, so I get back to let me just get back to where we’re at now be where our feet or be where our spaces in time grounds, your feet right and.


Michele Freeman: And just take a deep breath and that really helps a lot so Those are a few of the things that I like to do.


David Horsager: forever regular as far as both physical and mental, it seems, you know you brought those up as far as the you know even suicide rates and just other things do you have a certain physical routine like yourself to stay fit.


Michele Freeman: So so here’s where i’m going to give you a little bit of look like i’m going to go vulnerable here right.


Michele Freeman: So a few years back, I had a back injury, but I didn’t actually do something to it at that moment in time, but it for sure went out.


Michele Freeman: So that’s also another way that I had to stop and slow down and take that pause right pausing is so important, reflecting on what’s going on, and people are like oh it’s got to be from the duty belts right.


Michele Freeman: And I said no i’m not going to say it’s it’s from the duty bout do I think that the weight on the duty balance made a difference for sure, but so I think that that was the cause of my back injury.


Michele Freeman: Absolutely not, I was very active growing up, I played a lot of sports I did a lot of things I was always doing things.


Michele Freeman: And I think that’s part of my back injury was just from the normal wear and tear of life.


Michele Freeman: And you know me probably not doing some of the self care routines that I talked about and I needed to pay attention to my physical response to probably my mental and emotional.


Michele Freeman: Not doing so good right, so I went ahead and I had to go through some PT so right now unfortunately i’m not as active as i’ve used to be.


Michele Freeman: love to go to the gym love to lift I used to lift heavy I used to Cardio wasn’t My big friends, but I obviously would do Cardio because it was important for you know that part for your heart for your health.


Michele Freeman: And I love to be in the gym I played sports growing up love to do all those things now it’s a little different you know i’m a little older in life things changed my back injury, so what I do is I do a lot of more like.


Michele Freeman: relaxation i’ll do physical things i’ve learned in physical PT you know physical therapy.


Michele Freeman: And some of the mild yoga poses and I work with people today because I always know that I can learn more i’m a life learner for sure I always want to know how can I absorb more information right.


Michele Freeman: So what I do now is I love to take walks and instead of walking fast to get to nowhere quickly, I take gratitude walks I.


Michele Freeman: Am I go outside and I literally stop and smell the roses I literally takes, and this is a great thing to do, take a gratitude walk you go and you don’t have to leave your backyard your front yard your street you can go right there and.


Michele Freeman: Really notice things you’ve never noticed before oh I knew I had a tree in the front yard, but wow look at the leaves on it.


David Horsager: So what i’m hearing it for you a gratitude walk is a big part of it is noticing noticing and being thankful being grateful.


Michele Freeman: Absolutely extraordinarily important for me.


David Horsager: On the meditation tell me like what’s a good meditation look like, for you.


Michele Freeman: So I need help, I need a guided meditation I am not good to do my own meditation so I have to use either one of the.


Michele Freeman: Like I use one of the ones you can find so many online guided meditations if you’re into peloton you can even go on to peloton and use the APP there that have guided meditations on there.


Michele Freeman: there’s people locally, that I follow you can go online like I said and do them.


Michele Freeman: Actually deepak chopra and oprah do a guided meditation they do do guided meditations love there’s so there’s just different ones, and what resonates with you.


Michele Freeman: I think is different right, so you should try different ones and that’s that’s the thing for me when I started doing it.


Michele Freeman: I was like Oh, my goodness it’s not working, but I created a routine, especially when I hurt my back.


Michele Freeman: So I started doing it in my little yoga room I would do my physical therapy and then i’d go right into my guided meditation.


Michele Freeman: And I would do them and they didn’t always quote unquote work for me I first started doing them and then I ended up kind of listening to them in the car, but not actually meditating so I was just kind of getting used to it.


Michele Freeman: And now finally typically first thing I do in the morning before I even get out of it and last thing I do in the evening is a guided meditation.


Michele Freeman: And same thing I do my gratitude I reflect upon the day in the evening and quietly by myself in bed when I close my eyes my husband doesn’t even probably know this.


Michele Freeman: I think what, in the last 24 hours is the one thing, even if I had a bad day that I can find gratitude in and it might simply be you know what the water just felt good in my skin in the shower this morning.


David Horsager: So let’s jump from.


David Horsager: gratitude blocks and meditation to the fierceness of leadership when.


David Horsager: 61 people die in a shooting in 2017 or racial unrest what What did you do I mean what you, you were known for leading in the midst of some big challenges I heard.


David Horsager: and saw very positive things I think of.


David Horsager: Some things I heard but tell us about you know when you’re in bed when you have to lead them, and you have to bring calm to them.


David Horsager: And you are fast pace, and you are positive, but that is you’re also an empathize arm and there was just it was a tough time I remember listening to your That was the communications director said.


David Horsager: We you know people obviously were critical of us, because this terrible thing happened, but we handled it so much better our team we things actually went.


David Horsager: In many, many ways very well because of how we were set up and prepped and and whatnot but.


David Horsager: Some of that’s your leadership, what What did you do in those times i’m thinking of right now the the social unrest of last year and the you know that 2017 those stands out to me, and maybe there’s many more i’m sure in your 28 and a half years, but what do you how do you lead them.


Michele Freeman: So that’s that’s great questions so obviously last year it was very complicated because we had not only did we have the worldwide pandemic which we’ve never seen in our lives.


Michele Freeman: And then on the heels of that we get civil unrest right and and then.


Michele Freeman: You know just everyone’s personal own space that they’re in which is life and death.


Michele Freeman: So there’s an all in between right things happening and and children having to be homeschooled and what’s going to happen next, and.


Michele Freeman: people that are you know already ill and you’re taking care of them or trying to take care of your own illnesses So those are all really challenging times and you did mention one October, and that was a big Community thing for us um and it hit, of course, nationwide and.


Michele Freeman: Las Vegas is such a great place what’s great about it is people come from all over.


Michele Freeman: So people literally didn’t just feel it because or read about it because they were reading about it elsewhere, they were feeling it because they were visiting here during that actual time.


Michele Freeman: And so we had a lot of people that were victims that weren’t necessarily from Las Vegas right.


Michele Freeman: So first off, I definitely want to give kudos to all the wrestling agencies surrounding us and to our our Big Brother agency here the city of Las Vegas.


Michele Freeman: wasn’t it was Las Vegas Metropolitan Police department and the Sheriff who runs that department is who had to lead through his police department through that and he was the one who was really.


Michele Freeman: Running in and also you know, calling upon us to assist all of the other local agencies and what Las Vegas is known for which is really, really.


Michele Freeman: Incredibly inspiring is our Community and our Community and we come together and it’s not worth.


Michele Freeman: it’s not worth we come together during difficult times, and that doesn’t mean that somebody won’t say.


Michele Freeman: I didn’t like what was going on there’s certainly going to be people that didn’t feel like they were Community right in times of trouble or difficulty or.


Michele Freeman: In devastation or traumatic experiences, however, I personally witnessed where we all, as if i’m speaking in the law enforcement space, the law enforcement communities.


Michele Freeman: public safety Community so whether it’s the fire departments We work very well, a police departments first responders have expanded what that definition means here in Vegas nap here, and I should say our entire southern Community southern Las Vegas area southern Nevada area, excuse me.


Michele Freeman: And what that means is we’re not we’re not not looking at that was a double negative so don’t do that.


Michele Freeman: But we’re we look at everybody we look at you know whether you’re in the hospital your medical staff your fire department everybody’s first responders behind the scene people.


Michele Freeman: dispatch your people that are working maintenance they’re doing all these things, to make sure that everybody on the front line can continue to move, nobody is more valuable than another person.


Michele Freeman: And that’s what’s so incredible about our Community, we cultivate on that relationship we built that relationship and we’re able to move forward, so one of the things that i’ll use as an example through that time was.


Michele Freeman: We weren’t on the strip so my department wasn’t on the strip and here’s what the challenge was for that.


Michele Freeman: Because the Sheriff had enough people there Metropolitan Police department and the other agencies that report it and respond it there was enough people there was actually more than enough people.


Michele Freeman: You know the thing is is you gotta you gotta be careful because too many people sometimes it’s too many people so here’s what happened.


Michele Freeman: We were taking tours and we were walking around and making sure people were okay and come to find out that you’re trained to run in.


Michele Freeman: So we have all these officers here waiting to run in waiting to render aid waiting to give help suited up ready to go, really, really on fire, to help their brothers and sisters in our public safety arena.


Michele Freeman: And they’re told to stand down so now another set of emotions coming because they want to help, so they have to understand which it was very hard in that space.


Michele Freeman: How do I not how do I not run in when that’s what I was told to what to do, that’s what i’m on the ready for i’m always on the ready to ride in right.


Michele Freeman: And so what part of us did was organize and develop plans to be able to accept where they have to stay and how do they work within where they’re at to help the community at large.


Michele Freeman: One of the things that are our police officers, we call them marshals in the city Las Vegas department of public safety same thing as police officers so that’s the same term same category one in Category one certification here in the city or excuse me, and then state in Nevada.


Michele Freeman: What they were given as they were given this responsibility, the Court go to the coroner’s office, and we want you to secure the perimeter.


Michele Freeman: Well, what does that mean that means that they’re going to go and they’re going to make sure that when these families are coming and looking for their loved ones that there is.


Michele Freeman: You know, some kind of order when they come because the coroner’s office has to be protected, obviously that’s the last place you go.


Michele Freeman: When something devastating happens and if there’s death right so so we were told go there, so I did a tour with.


Michele Freeman: Our crisis intervention administrator and a lieutenant at the time, because we were just.


Michele Freeman: My thing is be where your people are beat you know and and balancing that because that’s sometimes I don’t get to always be where my people are and that’s, the most important thing for me.


Michele Freeman: And sometimes I have to be behind the scenes right, but in this case we go down to the coroner’s office and we learn that you know what our people weren’t just securing the perimeter.


Michele Freeman: Our people were actually taking these victims these victims and taking them and helping the people that worked at the coroner’s office.


Michele Freeman: move from one gurney to another cleaning off the blood on the gurney that the body just was on so that they can make it.


Michele Freeman: sanitized for the next person that comes in, because everyone wants to be treated and needs to be treated with respect.


Michele Freeman: So my officers were doing this very different job that they thought was going to be what they were going to be doing.


Michele Freeman: To include some of my officers that were on that were just starting, and that were just on probation and actually and field training.


Michele Freeman: So what a change in where you think you’re going to be to where you left and then everyone else you know, there was a lot of officers and all the other employees that were helping.


Michele Freeman: and supporting and the the like the corrections officers in the jail.


Michele Freeman: We didn’t know if there was going to be like mass arrests or what was going to go on the time was this you know what was the situation at hand so they’re sitting in preparing and waiting.


Michele Freeman: So everyone did a beautiful job, I was very proud, it was one of the most devastating well, it was the most devastating.


Michele Freeman: Big scene ever right across America, however, it was one of the most devastating scenes personally that we were involved in, and then the other piece was checking on your people on here, it was where.


Michele Freeman: You know the deputy chief would walk through and everyone would say oh yeah everything’s good i’m good i’m good and then.


Michele Freeman: I walked through with my crisis intervention administrator and just moments changed because when we get there, they just found out oh my gosh my son was there.


Michele Freeman: And now they’re trying to process that while standing at work, doing their public service job so constant you know mental health and emotional well being and trying to check on everybody.


Michele Freeman: And then you know moving into civil unrest we’re having to you know everyone’s entitled to their first amendment right go out and have a civil protest we’re all for that you are, you should be able to speak your.


Michele Freeman: Your your your belief and go out, but we still had to suit up and be ready and make sure that we connect with the people out there, communicate builds a relationship and hope that the leaders will go ahead and keep it’ll stay peaceful.


Michele Freeman: Well, the hardest thing that I had to do as a leader was now have a almost it was a pre brief because it wasn’t a debrief like after the incident, so it was a briefing really and I went again with the crisis.


Michele Freeman: Intervention administrator and we met the marshals who now we’re all in there, right here and i’m standing out there.


Michele Freeman: In the parking lot and they’re all getting ready to leave they’re all suited up and their gear their trains up and ready to go.


Michele Freeman: And then I had to stay behind.


Michele Freeman: That was incredibly difficult to send everyone out there and me not be there with them.


David Horsager: One thing I noticed about you.


David Horsager: You know, is your deep care for the people and the mission and the city and I know the motto of serve and protect it, that that going back to the night, the.


David Horsager: one October event of how they’re just ready to serve, and that they that they did serve not everybody would do that, like you said, the tension, of being ready to run in and had told to stand down or clean up the blood of someone, but I think there’s attention you know we work with.


David Horsager: Many police departments and chiefs officers, I think, for me, at least, and they all i’ll say the similarity with you, they feel this call to serve and protect we have some great people in our country.


David Horsager: Serving and protecting what they haven’t seen, like you, is someone that cares so much about her people on the team leads.


David Horsager: Even on her sleeve kind of really genuinely lovingly optimistically cares at I think they may be do, but the difference, I saw was with you, I.


David Horsager: I saw people you know a lot of times in policing just have a more of a Shell up like they can’t.


David Horsager: Be emotional or feel the emotion, because it’s just so much, and I, you know i’ve even dear dear friends, that you know that the things you see.


David Horsager: On a daily basis, your people see in that tragic situation with that kid in that apartment or that drug is just the worst of the worst.


David Horsager: That girl that whatever you know this, the images that you see, but your positiveness in life and your care for your people like.


David Horsager: I just think I guess how did you balance showing care and because people can tell out there you care they they can tell, and yet.


David Horsager: And yet, not having this Shell up like like me like I often talk to my police friends and say when I speak at big policing events and like.


David Horsager: They all sit in the back with their hands arms crossed they’re hard and cold, this can be because they want to everybody’s got to see which doors, you know they all want to be the back back back person right and.


David Horsager: And you understand why because they’ve all been lied to hundred times a day.


David Horsager: I didn’t speed I didn’t steal I didn’t do that I never did that and that and then, in that case for building trust they don’t trust anybody, you know, in a way, they don’t they don’t believe anybody because they’ve been lied to hundred times a day.


David Horsager: So they trust you’re lying or many are you know, in a way it’s a bit of a joke with with close friends of mine but I guess.


David Horsager: The tension and the beauty, I think I just how did you do it to be to be caring and I know it’s not easy to take you know this isn’t a pandering thing but it people need to know you really.


David Horsager: Care emotionally, for your people, and yet, how do you have enough of a distance, so that you keep your sanity in you know these tragic situations that you’re having to deal with.


Michele Freeman: yeah so.


Michele Freeman: it’s an interesting question because I think a lot of people for a long time people never saw that within me and I was very I wasn’t as vulnerable and.


Michele Freeman: You know, I think that the moment in life that changed me was I was a lieutenant and the deputy chief at the time, His name was his name is bill frazier.


Michele Freeman: He told me, you know, I was, I was very about the structure and I was very about the rules and the policies and procedures and it’s very important right.


Michele Freeman: Because that’s what we do in policing we make sure that people are following the Rules, whether it’s it’s state regulations it’s ordinances.


Michele Freeman: It state statutes, whatever it may be they’re following the rule if that’s the jock follow the rule follow the rule and it’s it’s black and white world.


Michele Freeman: But it’s really not there’s Gray, and what he really taught me was.


Michele Freeman: I came in there to talk to him about something that was very black and Gray, in my eyes, there was somebody that absolutely violated policy and I felt like there so violate policy equals discipline back in my younger years right.


David Horsager: And you set out and like jail right.


David Horsager: Like I did on the on the detention Center front.


David Horsager: yeah.


Michele Freeman: Absolutely, I was incarcerated you know, they say, do one one day at a time and entire sentence of your work history right that’s the jail business.


Michele Freeman: right here in the jail business and it’s a very unique business to be in and a lot of people can’t do it so it’s very i’m glad you brought that up because.


Michele Freeman: A lot of times the correction staff gets overlooked and they do such a unique job and it’s very admirable and it’s very difficult and I remember so many police officers saying there’s no way.


Michele Freeman: I could be locked up for my entire career, one day, at a time of work right so.


Michele Freeman: Well, what happened was he you know i’m sitting here and I come to him, and I say this is what I think we need to do right we’ve got this violation and we need to go ahead and.


Michele Freeman: Next, it to this discipline and he’s like Michelle he’s like you have to think about the human side the human side is just as important as anything else.


Michele Freeman: And the at that point in time that’s when I was able to I didn’t get it fully then but I heard it and I let it compute.


Michele Freeman: And because I was very no emotion like I didn’t show emotion, I never let anyone through my shall I always kept that very strong you know i’ll go with the New York like you know look I kept it very strong structured and.


Michele Freeman: And he said it, and, over time, I was able to develop more and more, because I was all about let’s just get the job done we don’t need to talk about your family we don’t need to get to know each other, we don’t but I missed the mark so long.


Michele Freeman: And didn’t realize the importance of networking and connecting and building those trusting relationships.


Michele Freeman: in life, and that was the foundation of when the light bulb turned on for me that I was able to understand.


Michele Freeman: and feel what that meant without not being able to do my job, I still had to look out and do things and make difficult decisions for sure, and I still you know was doing that, throughout my career.


Michele Freeman: But connect with the people, because the people are what matter it without people you don’t have anything.


Michele Freeman: That love it well.


David Horsager: it’s true well, you said something to me, you know I had you get on the phone with all of our certified trust edge coaches.


David Horsager: You know right there, and maybe it was April or May of the pandemic and.


David Horsager: or actually would have been right after this more of the civil unrest and we had the George George floyd murder out here, and you know the challenges, with all that kind of thing, and you know what.


David Horsager: All of the issues that came kind of that instigated and I remember in the midst of that you have the civil unrest things like you have the protests happening out there, some of them, and although.


David Horsager: Because of the relationships you guys have built you had a lot less, I think that many parts of the world right, but you said something like we don’t do, social justice and saying we do we do physical distancing and I love that tell us about how you did that.


Michele Freeman: yeah so thank you for for saying that too.


Michele Freeman: So so social distancing is this like a word that everyone’s using right.


Michele Freeman: But that’s not what we really want to do we want to, we want to physically distance ourselves from people because we don’t want to.


Michele Freeman: Be around, we want to make sure that we’re safe and that we do the right things, and that we continue to physical distance, so that we can go ahead and help our Community heal as best as we can.


Michele Freeman: not carry our this pandemic forward, you know, reduce the rate of our the the virus itself and maintain the physical distance connection.


Michele Freeman: or excuse me, the social distance the social connection, so we want to stay socially connected and physically apart.


Michele Freeman: So and and so physically apart, is what we’re doing right here, right now, we’re but we’re staying socially connected, you and I are having a conversation like you’re sitting right here with me.


Michele Freeman: But we’re maintaining our physical distance, so that we can help our Community, and I think that what happens in right now so many people are having so many difficulties with.


Michele Freeman: a myriad of things because of the change in the way that we’re living and not having that connection and not being able to be physically with people, which is very difficult right because isolation.


Michele Freeman: Is a whole nother thing, especially people that live by themselves right so that you’re not able to.


Michele Freeman: work and live the way that you’re used to working and living and staying by yourself, is difficult.


Michele Freeman: But there are so many ways, that you can maintain this social relationship and continuance of connection.


Michele Freeman: And continuance of building your relationships it hasn’t changed, and you know what I like to do is try and look at, there was the generation.


Michele Freeman: Prior to actually you know gen X, probably, I would say, or the millennial generation right that was that started to speak to me and say Look, we want to work remotely can we work remotely and and.


Michele Freeman: The thought process at the time was pretty much around many places in our country was no you come to work because that’s what you do right well look at us now.


Michele Freeman: These millennials were correct, you can work in the space that we’re working in now, and there are studies to even say be more productive.


Michele Freeman: So you can actually have or like a combination of work right, you can combine whether it’s remote.


Michele Freeman: and physical and so you can have this beautiful relationship we do things that we wouldn’t have done it now there’s like quarantine he our right, people are having quarantining drinks and.


Michele Freeman: quarantining parties and all this fun stuff you can still you can do a puzzle with someone from another word, you know across the world, you can do.


Michele Freeman: you read a book with somebody in another State in another country, you can do things with other people without physically being there but maintaining your social connection.


Michele Freeman: And then keep our emotional.


David Horsager: yeah let’s touch on you know it hit us hard here in minneapolis when the you know the the civil unrest, of course, and and I remember i’ll get real vulnerable here, I hope this comes out exactly right, but you know I had, I have a.


David Horsager: An African American teammate on our team here and we were just over lunch, I was just talking about how are you feeling and and he was talking about how.


David Horsager: Heavy it was for their family and and his son and and just some of the things that have never happened to me that have happened to him and and.


David Horsager: and his his 18 year old son and and some stuff that he was going through in that emotional time processing things five minutes later.


David Horsager: I got a call from a white police officer that’s scared to death, how police officers are going to be treated as a result of this whole you know the civil unrest challenges in Minnesota and.


David Horsager: His perspective, which was very different but somehow one I just love you to speak to the differences and what what how you deal with that and to I think just you did a beautiful job and i’ve seen you do it building relationships across.


David Horsager: Cultural and other divides economic and other divides and I think just speaking to that as a leader, a little bit and what you have done in Vegas and personally.


Michele Freeman: yeah thanks.


Michele Freeman: So this is, you know it’s obviously a heavy topic and it’s very real and it’s very important and.


Michele Freeman: I think one of the things that really resonated with me was several years back, I was fortunate enough to the city of Las Vegas to take a diversity class.


Michele Freeman: This class was more than just a class right your routing class, it was really an eye opening experience it was a few days, there was a couple different kind of.


Michele Freeman: showcases of it, but I was able to go in the leadership forum, and I think it was three days it may have been to.


Michele Freeman: It was many, many years back, and you know my different my my definition of diversity really was very similar to their definition of diversity.


Michele Freeman: And that’s inclusion of everybody and that’s us and just speak to your color your skin religion, gender.


Michele Freeman: Any preference it’s about your thought process and your experiences and your exposures and how you were brought up.


Michele Freeman: That all develops your thought process and that’s how you kind of think the way that you do right, and so you go through life and you may have a certain experiences and exposures that kind of major.


Michele Freeman: And all of those are just as important as any one of anyone’s else’s and so when it’s funny for me, you know because we just talked about in policing it’s like.


Michele Freeman: Where the people in blue you put on the uniform and it’s like.


Michele Freeman: I don’t see I see the the blue we’re on the same team it’s kind of like when you suit up to go and play you know or practice practice before you’re going to play a game.


Michele Freeman: you’re suiting up and you’re on the same team you’re just it doesn’t matter what you look like what your color your skin is what your religion is what you ate for breakfast what you didn’t eat for breakfast.


Michele Freeman: You just come and you’re there to be on the same team and to move towards the common goal right.


Michele Freeman: And so my that’s how I was actually brought up, and I mean New York is you know, I was fortunate to be in that Community bringing us up there and learning the way that I did.


Michele Freeman: And and experiencing lots of differences and accepting lots of differences and recognizing that everyone’s entitled to their opinion.


Michele Freeman: And their opinion is just as valuable as mine, even if it’s a difference of opinion it doesn’t matter i’m allowed to have mine and everyone else is allowed to have theirs.


Michele Freeman: And I always say like if you have the choice to be writer kinds choose kinds there’s no need that you have to be right, all the time and sometimes you can be right and it’s hurtful.


Michele Freeman: And it doesn’t mean that you have to express right, and so, for me, I think you know it’s real, we need to take a pause and understand that no one can understand any of us, none of us right.


Michele Freeman: So I i’ll use this analogy, and I don’t know if i’m getting deep enough for you, but i’ll give this analogy that I use quite a bit.


Michele Freeman: I look at life as this balcony and we’re all in the balcony of life.


Michele Freeman: And so during our life we have different seats in the balcony so right now I have my seat in the balcony because of all of my experience all of my journey so far has taken me so this seat.


Michele Freeman: And even if you were to sit on my lap not being weird or anything but even if you were to sit on my lap and look forward.


Michele Freeman: you’re not going to see this things the same way that i’m going to see him i’m going to have to look around you i’m going to have to look beside you we’re not going to see it exactly the same.


Michele Freeman: And then, as I, develop and I grow i’m going to move to a new seat in the balcony and i’m going to get to experience and see things just differently now again in my new seat.


Michele Freeman: So, as we continue through our life journey we continue and see things differently, and if we go and we reflect, which is something I really take a lot of time to do nowadays.


Michele Freeman: reflect on the past, how can we learn from it not be disappointed and maybe something we wish, we would have done differently, but you know, learn and grow, so if we can do that.


Michele Freeman: and change and have a little bit more grace for ourselves.


Michele Freeman: As well as others, and even if we’re opinionated people because, first, first of all I am opinionated I absolutely you know I told you, I keep saying coming from New York, we all got that stereotype you’ve got an opinion.


Michele Freeman: And I do and i’m quick to be able to do that, but at the same time I I have that opinion and then I stopped and I pause and I was very lucky i’ll give you one more.


Michele Freeman: one more piece of my journey, when I was in when I was going for my associates degree back in New York, and I was fortunate to have a Defense attorney as a professor.


Michele Freeman: And this is what he shared we talked about all these different controversial issues, so we would talk about when I talk controversial i’m talking about hot topic controversial i’m talking about.


Michele Freeman: let’s say death penalty abortion things that are very controversial and people are very passionate about right, so this is what he did, for us, and this is me and my young years, he said, my late teenage years but young years he says.


Michele Freeman: Who who believes in you know xyz and we all raise our hands on what side we believed in right whether death penalty pro or not in you know against death penalty same thing for abortion.


Michele Freeman: And then he broke us up into teams and now we have to defend the side that we were opposition of.


Michele Freeman: That very lesson allowed me to continue to grow through life and remember so but, even when I make my judgment call I always try to look the surrounding area of what.


Michele Freeman: could be converse to what my beliefs, are what could be different and there’s so many things that you can do something, the same way.


Michele Freeman: or excuse me, you can do one thing get the same result and do it different ways and it doesn’t mean anyone was wrong, it just means that it was different and we should be able to respect those differences, because we’re one.


Michele Freeman: Community we all are the same, we all have skeletal structures and we all bleed red.


David Horsager: yeah well from a little depth here to wrapping up to the lightning round this has been so good, Michelle so good, I mean everybody.


David Horsager: defend I love this idea defend the opposite side learned event we my dad was, by the way, really good at this bringing up something at the table and you got to defend either side, and it was such a healthy thing, and I remember, then other people aren’t like that it meant.


David Horsager: You can’t this isn’t an argument it’s whatever you believe it isn’t an argument to learn right, it was a argument to have instead and.


David Horsager: What a gift, but all of this inclusion of everybody grace I love this one, if you if you have a choice, if you have to choose between right and kind choose kind.


David Horsager: Be where you are take a view from the balcony it’s different than anybody else’s, no matter where how you set.


David Horsager: pod is positive, you your little start to the day positive quotes month podcasts meditate belly breathe be there pause.


David Horsager: Take a gratitude walk I mean there’s so much here physical not physical not not social this might have to physical distance doesn’t mean you have to social distance so.


David Horsager: Here we go Michelle this has been so we can talk all day I love this but we’re going to the lightning round, you only get a sentence each or so, you know you’re you’re gonna get tight and and quick here as we bring it to a close what’s a favorite book or resource right now.


Michele Freeman: So my go to is positive quotes for every day by Patricia Lawrence.


David Horsager: Okay positive quotes, by the way, everybody, this will all be in the show notes, all you have to do is look at trusted leader show.com wwe trusted leader show COM.


David Horsager: Anything great that’s referenced here that Michelle may miss the show notes chief freeman will will will just make sure it’s it’s listed there, so you don’t have to worry about putting it down too quick, so all right number two what’s something you can’t live without.


Michele Freeman: I would say.


Michele Freeman: I would say, I talked about pizza pizza is definitely a go.


David Horsager: There we go.


Michele Freeman: And then.


Michele Freeman: style New York style for sure, but I would also say.


Michele Freeman: connectivity and cultivating relationships and building on by long lasting family and friend relationships.


Indeed.


David Horsager: best advice or in the in a quick round here just a piece of advice or a quote.


Michele Freeman: always be true to yourself.


David Horsager: always be true to yourself love it and I love yours lead with love the Foundation every relationship is trust like that one a lot.


Michele Freeman: Yes, yes, of course, it’s one of my top ones for sure.


David Horsager: yeah love yours.


David Horsager: One thing left to do one one hope you have for the future.


Michele Freeman: continue to give i’m inspired by giving and inspired by learning so I never want to stop learning from others, and I never want to stop being able to give to others.


David Horsager: Fantastic you have kept learning I watched that just your love for learning is contagious.


David Horsager: Well, one more question where can people find out about you, if you have a linkedin or something that go ahead.


Michele Freeman: I do have linkedin um I i’m Michele freeman with one l m ic H le freeman I use the only social media platform that I actually use continually is Twitter so i’m Mr freeman Vegas baby no just kidding just.


Vegas.


Michele Freeman: it’s em freeman Vegas.


David Horsager: Vegas that’ll be in the show notes, of course.


David Horsager: Yes, so well, it is the trusted leader show so last question who’s a leader you trust and why.


Michele Freeman: So this is a hard one because there’s many.


Michele Freeman: And i’m gonna I think i’m gonna give you one, but I think I might give you two even though you said I can’t Am I allowed to do that.


Of course.


Michele Freeman: So the first one i’m going to say, is my husband’s.


Michele Freeman: and obviously i’m in a relationship with him and if I was not trusting him I wouldn’t be in the relationship with him.


Michele Freeman: But I saw him at work he I met him at work, I know, one of the things I said I would never do right now, or the person that you work with.


Michele Freeman: met him at work and saw that he walked his talk, he was honest he might not have always said it, the way that you want it to hear it, but he you never had you never were blindsided you always knew what you were going to get.


Michele Freeman: He was very strategic he supported his people, he was there for his people he walked the talk, but he proved and and he led courageously.


Michele Freeman: And people followed him and people still to this day, say that they follow him, not because he’s my husband.


Michele Freeman: Because they give me examples of what took place when they’re giving me examples of laughter and enjoyment and there’ll be like yep and they’ll say exactly what he did and give me those examples so i’m going to say him as one.


Michele Freeman: And then i’m also going to say you I think you’ve been.


Michele Freeman: Really inspirational for me and my development i’m really grateful that our paths have blends it i’m grateful that you have inspired me personally and professionally i’m grateful to have been able to to learn from you.


Michele Freeman: and to be able to frame things simplistically and you demonstrate exactly what you speak of.


Michele Freeman: You don’t just say it you do it, you live it you’re vulnerable you express that and I think it’s something that’s very important, and you are an inspirational leader and a trusting leader and it’s, not just because you.


Michele Freeman: You teach it it’s because you live it, and so I just wanted to thank you for allowing me to be in the space with you and learn from you and continue to grow.


Michele Freeman: and realize that your eight pillars of trust are invaluable and I believe in the principles, not because you train them because they’re real.


Michele Freeman: They matter.


Thank you.


David Horsager: wow i’m going to end this show today.


Thank you, thank you, chief.


David Horsager: Well, I don’t have much else to say, but thank you to chief and thank you all for listening it’s been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.

Ep. 11: Coach Jim Johnson on How Leaders Can Effectively Motivate Others

In this episode, David sits down with Coach Jim Johnson, Speaker, Coach and Author, to discuss how leaders can effectively motivate others.

Coach Jim’s Bio:
Based on what transpired in 2006, Coach Jim Johnson is an authority on teamwork, leadership and realizing your dreams.

During what people call the “miracle game” Coach helped an autistic high school senior realize his dream of playing with the team. Hoping for just one basket, Coach, and the rest of the country, was amazed when Jason McElwain scored 20 points in 4 minutes.

In his keynote “Leadership Lessons from Half Court” Coach shares real-world tools attendees can implement right away. He has appeared on Oprah, Good Morning America, and ESPN and is the author of the book A Coach and a Miracle.

Coach Jim’s Links:
Website: https://coachjimjohnson.com
Book: https://coachjimjohnson.com/inspirational-motivational-book-products/
J-Mack Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmaIsE2nLZk&ab_channel=CMICK1275
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CoachJimJohnson
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachjimjohnson/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CoachJimJohnson
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachjimjohnson/

Key Quotes:
1. “When you have a setback, you got to make it a comeback.”
2. “The closer I live to my personal mission, the better leader I became.”
3. “Who motivates the motivator?”
4. “The people that are successful are always learning.”
5. “The more that you can find ways to feed your mind is hugely beneficial.”
6. “If you don’t build trust with the people you’re working with, then you’re going to struggle trying to motivate them.”
7. “Do you actually have a plan to build trust with your team?”
8. “You have to have stories.”
9. “What kind of teammate are you?”
10. “Listen and ask more questions.”
11. “The more that you can develop leaders, the stronger your team is going to be.”
12. “Attitudes are contagious, is yours worth catching?”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People” by Stephen R. Covey: https://amzn.to/3pNXYD0
“Atomic Habits” by James Clear: https://amzn.to/3undE3F
“Season of Life” by Jeffrey Marx: https://amzn.to/3btPc85

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/36AXtp9
Follow us on Facebook: https://bit.ly/2S9O6mj
Follow David on Twitter: https://bit.ly/2BEXgla
Follow David on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/2Xbsg5q
Follow David on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2QDFOE5

Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and today I have a special guest coach Jim Johnson. Thanks for coming on the show author coach speaker friend, welcome.


Jim Johnson: Great to be here. Thanks David.


David Horsager: Hey, tell us three things we need to know about coach. Before I get into it.


Jim Johnson: Three things we know about coach. Well, I am a family man, I’ve been married for 38 years


Jim Johnson: To the same woman, which is always good. And we have one son. It’s been hard on us because he lives in California and we live in the east coast.


Jim Johnson: And I grew up in a family of educators, so I ended up being a teacher and coach, my, my father was actually my high school basketball coach. So I and I’m the oldest of six children. So I’ll give you a little quick background.


David Horsager: Well, you’re, you’re a coach turned kind of leadership expert resilience and all these kind of things.


David Horsager: Tell us about I want to get into this because they when I was, you know, I know you and I know some of the great we’re going to get into some of the principles that you share a little bit but


David Horsager: Tell us three times you took over programs basketball programs where you turn them around in a pretty short period of time.


David Horsager: Give us


David Horsager: Tell us, what did you do


Jim Johnson: Well, I’ll start with the bad news is my


Jim Johnson: Three, good ones was after the first one, where my first year as a head coach I lead this team to 17 consecutive losses and they fired me


David Horsager: That sounds like my high school, by the way.


David Horsager: High School. I think we were


David Horsager: Where we want about every game and football, I played for the winningest high school football coach in the state of Minnesota.


David Horsager: Okay, my senior year, I think we’re one in 19 in basketball.


Jim Johnson: Oh, wow.


David Horsager: Though, even though I was the captain. It’s not a proud place to be.


David Horsager: In basketball. So


Jim Johnson: Like you know what that did for me. And the reason I started with that is because


Jim Johnson: It really humbled me because I was, I got this job at 25 years old, I was pretty arrogant, because I had been successful as assistant coach and thought I knew everything about coaching and leadership and and after having that really difficult year. It really helped me


Jim Johnson: Ground me and realize that I had. And that’s when I started my study of leadership. And then I did one other break. I got is the next year. I worked for a college coach.


Jim Johnson: That ironically, I would have never known this. His name was building Gundy and his two sons have been head coaches in the NBA.


Jim Johnson: So coach Van Gundy took me under his wing. But then I really became a student of leadership. And the other thing is that I really learned


Jim Johnson: That when you have a setback, you got to make it a comeback and the one thing that I really drove me Dave was in my next 29 years as a head coach.


Jim Johnson: I never forgot that the fact that I always had to prove every day that I could do the job. So then the answer your question specifically I just was much more clear about my leadership principles in what I wanted to do and it started by being a better leader of me.


Jim Johnson: In number two is really getting clarity of the type of student athletes that I wanted to have on my team.


Jim Johnson: And those were. I mean, certainly we can get into more leadership principles, but those are where I started. And, and when I have more


Jim Johnson: more clarity. It really helped me and we were able to turn. I mean, I took over three programs that all hit losing teams before we got there.


Jim Johnson: In the latest we turned around and team and they have a winning record was the second year. So, so we were able to implement some things fairly quickly and got the ball rolling in the right direction.


David Horsager: All rolling. That’s all about you. That’s how you talk about, but let’s go to the what


David Horsager: Yeah. What you know we talked about this a lot. Trust is Leadership Institute and talking to, you know, our book my new book trusted leader but but we talked about that. Were you said you start by leading you haha what are you doing to lead you these days. And what did you do then.


Jim Johnson: Well, I definitely one of the first things is, is


Jim Johnson: You know, I started to read more. And one of the books that earlier. My career was I read seven habits from Dr covey. And one of the things he talked about


Jim Johnson: Was a your why what what’s your personal mission. And when I read the book, I will. I didn’t, I very little clarity about what I really wanted to be all about


Jim Johnson: And so I I really started in fact I this one things I teach people is how to discover your mission.


Jim Johnson: And when I get clarity about that is, is it my mission statement is to be an outstanding role model that makes a positive difference in the world by helping others make their dreams come true.


Jim Johnson: And when I get clarity about that my my players then really understood what I stood for.


Jim Johnson: There was no confusion. You know, I, that I was going to lead by example. I was gonna we were going to do things the right way we’re going to do things with integrity.


Jim Johnson: And we’re going to do that consistently day in and day out. Um, so that’s what I mean by leading by myself is, I think you have to have a foundation of what your why, why are you on this earth.


Jim Johnson: And then live it consistently and I’m not saying I’ve made my more my share of mistakes, but the closer I live to my personal mission, the better leader I became for others.


David Horsager: You know, this kind of gets to leading yourself. I think one thing i love that because I think you know it drives us this mission can drive us when we


David Horsager: You know, I often say your mission your goals can change that mission generally stays basically the same or you should change it. I mean, you know, everything comes under that. So if, if this goal doesn’t support that mission, you should change the goal always gotta change your mission right


David Horsager: Right, so


David Horsager: What about leading you from a, from a practical standpoint of of daily. I mean, what kind of, you know, a lot of times, great leaders like you. And certainly when you’re coaching and and as an athlete and I know you you’ve got an incredible marathon time still today but um


David Horsager: But what are you doing daily daily habits daily routine maybe to your morning routine or just habits. I know when you came in visit and stayed overnight. We had to make sure you worked out but but i but what what are some of the daily habits.


Jim Johnson: So I have a daily five that I do and they’re not necessarily all I do some things in the morning, but because of various because one of the things like I’m big on energy


Jim Johnson: So for me for energy. As you already mentioned, you know, I work out pretty much every single day in and, like, people say, you know, how do you have time to do that. I, I look at the other way. I


Jim Johnson: I need to do that because it just makes me such a stronger person because I have more energy by working out so you know one of the things I advise people is, is


Jim Johnson: It, you know, something like working out, is I make an appointment myself every day. Now I’m probably a little bit different.


Jim Johnson: Like I know my wife, when she was teaching, she would wake up at 430 in the morning, every day and work out before work. Now that’s not exactly my cup of tea. So I so like today, I worked out at six o’clock in the morning. So, and I did a workout and then


David Horsager: So very late riser. I mean, you were sleeping.


David Horsager: In I’ll tell you what.


Jim Johnson: So, but, you know, but there’s other days where I have like yesterday did a morning presentation. So I worked out in the afternoon, but what I do is I blacked out a time and say, Okay, this is what I’m going to work out when


David Horsager: You when you block that out. Like, when do you block that out in your calendar every week because you’re, you’re, you know, schedule changes like me. We got presentations runs virtual thing we’re getting interviewed by media or whatever it is.


David Horsager: Any book so you know what what do you do when do you schedule out your workouts.


Jim Johnson: I i do that every Sunday.


Jim Johnson: So I look at my week


Jim Johnson: And I I schedule and in, you know, and then I black in is okay, this is what I’m going to do this. So this is what I’m going to do this and and so I’d make an appointment. And I do that for the whole week for workouts.


Jim Johnson: How long is your workout normal workout.


Jim Johnson: Well, it varies. It can go as short as


Jim Johnson: 45 minutes to as long as two hours, depending on what I’m doing and they’re kind of like when I play tennis, because I played a club because I like you were in the winter right now so we’re not playing outside


Jim Johnson: You know, I have to drive the club. So it’s like a two hour commandments, do that.


Jim Johnson: But then when I work out. I have a you know a little home gym that I work out at home, then it would be a shorter workout. But I also


Jim Johnson: Been doing a daily walk. And just to finish the question daily five that I do that, I bet in the last three years.


Jim Johnson: I probably haven’t missed one of these five more than once. One of the things that I read a great book. Recently, you may have heard of it. Atomic habits by James clear


Jim Johnson: And one of the things that really stuck out in my mind, is he said when you’re developing habits, good or bad is especially the good ones. You don’t want to miss ever two days in a row.


Jim Johnson: So that was my concept. So my daily five is I do a workout. I do a daily prayer I do a daily meditation session.


Jim Johnson: I do a goal setting cards, where I read cards of what my objectives that are for basically these are annual goals and then I do a daily Journal of goals. So those are five things that I rarely, rarely ever miss


David Horsager: What. Well, how long does that take, let’s just go run through the thing so workout was 45 to two hours daily prayer meditate, you put these other for together. Do you do


Jim Johnson: Sometimes, sometimes not. Okay. What


David Horsager: Time frame on those


David Horsager: So we give people a clue because for things here that are pretty cool that you can actually people could get done quicker than they think. And it could be right.


Jim Johnson: Powerful prayer 10 to 15 minutes meditation 15 to 20


Jim Johnson: The gold cards. Three minutes. The a goal journal 10 minutes


David Horsager: Okay, those gold cards. When you usually do those


Jim Johnson: I do those two sometimes three times a day. They’re always when I get up in the morning I get in front of a mirror. The first thing I always say to myself, is I am responsible because I take charge of my life. And then I


Jim Johnson: I also do some mantras, as well as gold. Like I shared to myself that I like myself, I share to myself that I have an infinite mindset.


Jim Johnson: You know, so those are just couple of few mantras that I do. I do that in the morning. I always do it right before I go to bed and sometimes I will do it in the middle of the day as well.


David Horsager: Give us it you know every everybody’s different on this and I just on the meditation time if you’re open to sharing it.


Jim Johnson: What’s your


David Horsager: What kind of thing do you do to read something to you, then, what’s that mean to you.


Jim Johnson: Okay. So meditation for me and I’ve been experimenting with different things. So I do


Jim Johnson: I start with a breathing exercise. So that takes between 30 and 45 seconds, then I do a mantra.


Jim Johnson: With one of my business goals right now, so I will actually repeat the mantra somewhere between 10 and 15 times where I’m also doing breathing.


Jim Johnson: Then I actually do. Because I’m an avid tennis player. I actually do some visualization and me playing tennis. So that’s another thing I do. And then I do a just a muscle relaxer and finish with another breathing exercise. Hmm.


David Horsager: That’s interesting. And if you’re willing to share it. What’s one of your big goals this year.


Jim Johnson: So the goal is now because I’ve been making the pivot is is I want to double my virtual presentations, which I say until the coven thing. I didn’t think I’d ever say


David Horsager: Yeah. And what’s that mean how many


Jim Johnson: I want to do 50 this year.


Jim Johnson: Okay, average for a month is what my goal is so


David Horsager: There you go. Yeah, it’s great. So, so what these days. How are you, are there any actually you think about HABITS AND ROUTINES any boundaries that you put out there and sake. You say, I say no to this so that I can do that.


Jim Johnson: Yeah, that’s a great question because of the, one of the things that I’ve started to do better is, I call it my big three and


Jim Johnson: When I when I write out my big three for the week and I write out what I try to do every single night as I put together a list and I tried to do my big three.


Jim Johnson: And making sure the other thing I’m starting to do much better as I do what I call time block. So for example, if I’m working on.


Jim Johnson: You know business emails or whatever. I will blackout a certain amount of time I do some social media. So I black out a certain period of time.


Jim Johnson: But what I tried to do like boundaries. For example, like I never bring my phone into my bedroom. Okay, so I know that goes stays downstairs.


Jim Johnson: When I get up in the morning. I never unless it’s rare exception where I think something that I might have to deal with right in the morning. I never looked at my email.


Jim Johnson: My email is always done usually late morning 30 minutes and then I usually try to go back and do the one other 15 to 20 minute block a time so I try never to look at my new Mel’s morn twice a day.


David Horsager: Great. So let me, let me ask you this, on the big three. Is that a weekly or a daily thing. We call those at our office, we call DMA is difference making actions.


David Horsager: Yeah, um, you know, like Collins, who we agree with you, said if you have more than three push forward priorities, you don’t have any right


David Horsager: Right, so


David Horsager: But what are your big three. What’s that look like is that a weekly or daily


Jim Johnson: So I do a weekly where I go big three. And then I usually will look at and say, Okay, one of the big threes. I want to really focus on today. So I have three objectives for that.


David Horsager: Okay, good. Love it. What keeps you motivated


Jim Johnson: Well, you know, I heard somebody say this once i think is great, who motivates the motivator. Because, you know, that’s kind of what I am right. I’m a motivator. So


Jim Johnson: I think the best thing that that has been helpful for me is I’m a student of learning. I’m curious.


Jim Johnson: In there for like, you know what, like I have a one little talk. I don’t do that much, but it’s it really helped me in foundation life I caught the 10 questions all effective leaders should be able to answer.


Jim Johnson: And like one of them is what is your personal growth plan so like I. One of the things that because a feeding my mind in my curiosity helps me immensely to for my motivation and then


Jim Johnson: Because one of my major goals is to inspire other people. So like learning and trying to share ideas of things I’ve learned. I’ve tried you know


Jim Johnson: I mean I’ve stolen a lot of ideas. As for sure, but, you know, the thing is, is I think the people that are are successful are always learning, they’re always trying to gain ideas and then they go to use it, how it benefits them.


Jim Johnson: You know, not necessarily the exact same way that Dave, you would do it, or someone else to do it. You know, it’s got to fit my style. You know what I’m doing.


Jim Johnson: But, you know, like, again I caught the two for one, I think in feeding your mind, you can really be cognizant like like I do have a goal every to goal of my goal is to read a book, a week. Okay.


Jim Johnson: Okay, so I like the first thing I do in the morning tomorrow morning routine first 10 minutes when I get up as a read for 10 minutes. Okay, before I do anything else.


Jim Johnson: So, and then periodically during the day, if I have a short little break. I may just read for another 510 minutes. You know, I always have my book ready for me.


Jim Johnson: But then, you know, things that people here, but I don’t think they really, for example, I go for a walk. When I go for a walk. I listen to podcasts.


Jim Johnson: Okay, when I exercise where I’m home now. I wouldn’t do this playing tennis because I’m playing somebody else.


Jim Johnson: But if I’m, you know, going out for a jog or writing my exercise bike, I put on and listen to podcasts or or I might put a video on while I’m watching TV, you know, something like that.


Jim Johnson: And then the other simple one is when I drive my car, you know, I’m listening to audio program. I mean, it was it sometimes I’ll listen to music. Because once a while. It’s good to listen to


Jim Johnson: Music You enjoy, but I think, you know, the more that you can find ways to feed your mind is just hugely beneficial.


David Horsager: Absolutely input equals output right


David Horsager: Absolutely. So tell it, you know, give us as long as we’re on the topic. Can you give us one or two more of the 10 questions that you talked about from the the


David Horsager: Student What was the 10 questions.


Jim Johnson: 10 questions all effective leader should be able to answer.


David Horsager: A couple more of those.


Jim Johnson: You’re okay. So, uh, what is your why your personal mission statement, do you have in a writing. Another one is, what are your top three values. Okay, which does connect with your personal mission. Another one is what is your personal wellness plan I talked about your personal growth plan.


Jim Johnson: What is your financial independence plan.


Jim Johnson: You know, which right now. I mean, you know, and that’s saying this is a because if I would have been hit 25 years ago by coven


Jim Johnson: I would have met in dire straits. Because when I was in like around 30 my financial independence plan was to get to Friday so I could pay my bills. Okay.


Jim Johnson: Then all of a sudden I started to read. And I go, this is not how I want to live. Now fortunately I mean coven really hurt my my speaking business. There’s no question about it. I took a nosedive plus


Jim Johnson: I was apprehensive about going into virtual events. So I took me a while to pivot. I didn’t. And that was something I didn’t do well in the fact I really had a lot of reflection myself, do I want to stay in this business.


Jim Johnson: But the, the other side of that coin is is that i i’m financially independent. I mean, I’m not Bill Gates, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t have to work to live. Okay. So I work because I love it. And that’s a nice place to be for sure.


David Horsager: So certainly good questions. Let’s let let’s let’s jump into motivation and another way because you’ve been like you said you’re a motivator and you motivated, a lot of basketball players and you had you


David Horsager: Know you become known with the the J Mac and sp and all those kind of things. Meet


David Horsager: President and whatnot but


David Horsager: How do you, how did you motivate those players. How do you motivate. How do you motivate anyone else.


Jim Johnson: Well, I think the huge thing is is you have to get to know them, you have to build personal relationships because if you don’t build relationships, we’re going back and you’ll like this word, I think you’ve heard of it called trust.


Jim Johnson: Right, if you don’t build trust with the people you’re working with, and you’re, you’re going to struggle trying to motivate them because they won’t


Jim Johnson: respect you. They won’t count on you. So I think just it starts by by that daily, you know, and debut, you know, this is what you’re famous for.


Jim Johnson: But, like, one of the things I talked to leaders about is do you actually have a plan to build trust with your team, like we did you know we we broke it down into


Jim Johnson: things we want to do. We wanted to tell each other the truth, we wanted to be vulnerable with each other.


Jim Johnson: And we wanted to try to do more positive reinforcement by catching people doing right as Ken Blanchard famously put


Jim Johnson: So, you know, those are things that we tried to do consistently to build trust because once you start to build trust and you get to know your people.


Jim Johnson: Because you don’t treat everybody the same. And that’s where we get into is


Jim Johnson: What motivates you Dave may not motivate me or vice versa, or what motivates Sally might not motivate Mary. So what are the things is, yes, there’s are some general things like we had a quote of the day every day.


Jim Johnson: Now, but some people are going to take that quote in much stronger than others, but I think it’s, it’s just constantly. And the other thing that I found


Jim Johnson: In motivation is you have to have stories, you have to have illustrations, where people can embrace, you know, and for me with, you know, with basketball. I was always telling stories you know of maybe players that played before them.


Jim Johnson: You know, professional players and trying to point out both good examples and bad examples they go to always bring up. How come you know basketball.


Jim Johnson: How come the bronze teams, teams always win and Carmelo Anthony’s team has done.


Jim Johnson: Okay, and not to pick on either one of those guys I probably have a little both Carmelo Anthony, but there is something to do, you know, right now in basketball Kyrie Irving


Jim Johnson: One of the most talented guys in the NBA. He’s in it. He’s on a wall. He can’t trust him. You can count on him, you know,


Jim Johnson: And when you get into that thing, it goes back to what we were talking about, you know, you asked me how we turned our programs around. You got to get the right people on the bus. You know, I’m still on the Jim Collins thing but it’s so true. If you don’t have the right people.


Jim Johnson: You know, because talent is important. Don’t get me wrong, but you guys, I was talking to somebody the other day like about picking a team.


Jim Johnson: And we’re not going to pick GUYS, THEY CAN’T DRIBBLE, you know, to play basketball. I mean, that doesn’t make sense. But at the same time.


Jim Johnson: If one guy’s a little bit more talent than the other but one guy’s attitude in ability to accept the rule is so much better that guy that a little more talent, we’re probably going to cut and keep the other guy because that’s important and building that team.


David Horsager: How did you pick them like you got a little bit of time get spring training and you got this, you know, you know, you got this little bit of time that you get a


David Horsager: To be with them. See these number of players. You got to cut it down to five. Or maybe you get 10 or whatever, you know, in basketball. You don’t get so many players like


David Horsager: Football, you can fill it with 50 or whatever you need all these people want to play. How did you pick. I mean, especially when you start turning those teams around


David Horsager: How did you pick. And I think you pick differently than some people probably would have the year before wanted to and there was probably a lot of frustration, but how are you choosing people


Jim Johnson: Well, I will say, and this is, you know, I mean, we were targeting. So we spent a lot of time with our team in the offseason


Jim Johnson: Okay, so we weren’t going into the three day trial or five day trial with no background of the guys that were trying out for the team. Okay.


Jim Johnson: But once in a while, they give me an example is somebody may transfer into our school and I don’t get to know him very well. He tries out for the team.


Jim Johnson: Then, you know, just like people going for a job. I’m checking their references. I’m going to go to his teachers. I’m going to


Jim Johnson: See if I can call the other school where he came from. Talk to maybe the coach there, whatever. So we were going to do some background checking because it was that important.


Jim Johnson: And then as far as the overall with the guys that we knew


Jim Johnson: You know, we would work testing them all the time. How are they going to handle certain situations. Plus, we did a lot of things like a goal setting individually. We talked to our players.


Jim Johnson: You know, we really tried to build our team mission, which was developed winners on and off the court. We really wanted clarity.


Jim Johnson: And we are defining every single day. What does it take to win on the court. It’s not just winning the game all that certainly a measurable thing.


Jim Johnson: We also want to do you know what kind of teammate, are you, you know, like when we talked about aspects of picking a team.


Jim Johnson: One of the things we talked about was, we want to we over me, guys. We want to guys that were thinking of the team first


Jim Johnson: We want to guys that were humble, whether we won or lost. They could handle both of those in the correct way.


Jim Johnson: I and we want to guys that had drive that wanted they wanted to be coached and wanted to be better. And if they didn’t fit those components.


Jim Johnson: They would have probably hardly I used to tell our guys I’m excited about our team in our organization. We’re going to do special things, but it’s not for everybody. You know, you got to be willing to do some certain things because we’re making a commitment each other.


David Horsager: Yeah, well, you wrote the book a coach and a miracle life lessons from Amanda believed in an autistic boy. Yeah. And you talked about story before, and many people have seen it, they’ve heard it around the world. Give us the two minute version of the story of what happened that amazing night.


Jim Johnson: Yeah, so I will Jason J Mac mcilwaine is was a young man that was on the autism spectrum and learning disabled and he tried out for our team for three consecutive years, and didn’t make it any of the years


Jim Johnson: But he served as our team manager and what would really separated him.


Jim Johnson: Is that he had such a commitment. He came to all our offseason and program. He was always there and he was a giver before is a taker is always willing to do the extra to help his team and that kind of thing.


Jim Johnson: So his senior when he didn’t make the team. So I told him I was going to give them a gift and the gift was I was going to put them


Jim Johnson: In uniform for SENIOR NIGHT. And then I was going to get him. Hopefully in the game. Well, we’re just over four minutes to go. I got him in the place exploded.


Jim Johnson: And I usually am pretty macho guy, but I didn’t know that one of our parents made all these placards of Jason’s face and gave them to our students. And when he entered the game, Mr macho sat down and started to cry.


Jim Johnson: Then


David Horsager: But then the big things started happening.


Jim Johnson: Yes, they are. Yes.


David Horsager: If you haven’t seen this. It’s amazing will even put a link in the show notes at trusted leader show.com but tell us about it.


Jim Johnson: So he gets in the game. The first time he touches the ball. He has a three pointer from the corner and he lets it go in the crowd kind of stands in anticipation and Mrs by like six feet.


Jim Johnson: And I can get


Jim Johnson: Kid people that I know you’re not supposed to pray in the public schools. But I am a man of faith and I was praying


Jim Johnson: So please, God help us get one basket.


Jim Johnson: Next possession. He missed it, much shorter shot, but he hit the rim. So I thought, God, starting to listen we’re getting closer.


Jim Johnson: And he’s third possession. He makes a three pointer and the place just explodes Dave and I was so thrilled. I’m thinking, God must be a basketball fan Natalie is Jason scored. He’s got a three pointer can’t gain better than this. Right.


Jim Johnson: Wrong for the next three minutes he turns into his boyhood idol. The light gray Kobe Bryant and like Colby he just starts making shot after shot.


Jim Johnson: And the two things I’ll never forget, with a minute ago.


Jim Johnson: I’m saying the bench cannot believe what I’m seeing tears rolling down my face and I get a tip on my shoulder. I look behind me. It’s J. Maxx mother.


Jim Johnson: She’s bawling her eyes out. And she whispers of May your coach. This is the best gift you could ever give him my son, of course, what would you have done, I cried harder and then


Jim Johnson: How the game ended Spencer Porter pointed at night and I want to give kudos to their coach and their players that were great sports and I they score.


Jim Johnson: In our player takes it out of bounds with less than 10 seconds to go. And he normally throws it to our point guard. He throws the Jason


Jim Johnson: And Jason dribbling down. And I thought, spend support would just let them go. And he go in and make a layup. Oh no, he pulls up like two feet behind the arc


Jim Johnson: A. Let’s go this shot and think JASON DON’T YOU THIS WAY TOO FAR THIS RAIN go ball goes swish I look over our student body runs on the for our players are on the foreign think I’m living in the movie, Rudy.


Jim Johnson: And


David Horsager: 2020 2020 points in three minutes.


Jim Johnson: Yeah, they scored 20 points. Three minutes he had the game ball over his head and


Jim Johnson: Our students are our players, put them up on their shoulders and you know it’s interesting because I ended up having a, you know, from a win loss and championships.


Jim Johnson: pretty successful basketball coaching career, but nothing ever touched my heart and soul, like that. Was it was absolutely the greatest moment of in coaching, bar none. Yeah.


David Horsager: And all of a sudden you’re getting calls from ESPN and


David Horsager: Around the world, and it was a non stop media frenzy and it kind


David Horsager: Of has been 15 year anniversary on that night.


Jim Johnson: Here coming up and feminists and


David Horsager: So that’s exciting. So it’s a great book. Let’s touch on before we start bringing it all together here you got, you know, seven.


David Horsager: Leadership keys to be an effective leader. People need to buy the book and they need to listen to all the have to say, but let’s touch on one of those


David Horsager: That you want to pick out one or two of them go ahead and and let’s jump into one or two of those that you think let’s share that with this audience of trusted leaders.


Jim Johnson: Okay, you know, Mr. Because I’m not going to steal your thunder because one of them is building trust and but that’s already you cover that. So I’ll go to another one so


Jim Johnson: I’m going to say to the first one is effective communication and why that’s so essential. I mean, it’s obvious, but not so obvious.


Jim Johnson: Is that the best thing that I did as a coach I became better and you know doing little speeches before games and that kind of thing.


Jim Johnson: But the best thing I did because the ironic thing about the J. Maxx season was. That was the lowest point in my career Early in the season. We had a tragic event. It takes too long to get into it isn’t in my book.


Jim Johnson: But it divided the team and the next three weeks, was the worst part of my coaching career ever


Jim Johnson: And then the J Mac game and then we won the Section five title for the first time, all in the same season so is pretty incredible. But what why I bring it up is because


Jim Johnson: We were really going down the wrong path. And I brought him in after a game at a Christmas tournament. The next day, because we didn’t have school


Jim Johnson: And the best thing I ever did is I said guys, because we were playing in the championship game we’re playing a really good team and the way we were playing I


Jim Johnson: Told him I shocked him I didn’t bring any balls out I sentimental beaches. Nice. I looked him in the eyes. I said, guys.


Jim Johnson: Unless we decide we’re going to be a team tonight we’re going to lose by 50 points. But the best thing I did is I stopped talking and I said, You guys got to share and how we can unite


Jim Johnson: In and they finally started open up and that night it manifested. We didn’t beat that team, but we lost him and overtime and a show. Will we could do and then it really


Jim Johnson: Created some momentum. So the huge thing that I got way better. And in became very cognizant is to listen and ask more questions, Vic.


Jim Johnson: The last decade of my career would we had tremendous success, we would have a captain’s meeting every week and simply was asking them questions and just sitting and listening.


Jim Johnson: And they, it was so beneficial. It really helped the night, our team and lead us in the right direction than the


Jim Johnson: Give you two more have one real quick because it’s simple, but it’s just something I think we got to really be cognizant of is


Jim Johnson: One of my keys is lead by example and and I think that is so important. We used to tell our players all the time. You’re always onstage.


Jim Johnson: And and we forget it. We almost every leader will say that’s important, but there’s too many leaders and are doing it consistently.


Jim Johnson: And then the last one which you know I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not even sure we really should say


Jim Johnson: This should be part of leadership, because I think it’s the essence of leadership and that servant leadership and that’s the ability to flip the pyramid.


Jim Johnson: And and and really what I think servant leadership is the ability to learn to teach your team. How to be leaders and the more that you can develop leaders, the stronger your team is going to be


David Horsager: Love it. Those are great. I’ll tell you the always on the stage thing is that even more so now with social media. I think if if people don’t recognize it’s it’s not, you’re not always on stage, it’s always on stage. This is always there. Right.


David Horsager: So that’s fantastic.


David Horsager: Let’s jump in here. There’s so much. I get asked so much I could look at and with together with you and I just appreciate it. Our friendship. Let’s get into a quick little lightning round.


David Horsager: What’s your favorite book or resource right now.


Jim Johnson: Well, I brought up the favorite book that I’ve read recently was atomic habits, but I’m an avid reader. So there’s so many great books. I love


Jim Johnson: Stephen Covey’s, you know, seven habits is probably one of my all time favorites.


Jim Johnson: I also big Patrick lunch he only fan right and number. His books and and actually a book that I did want to bring up because I took a few notes, was that


Jim Johnson: It’s called a season of life by Jeffrey marks and it’s a book about football based on a true story, but it was just a great book was


Jim Johnson: Written by about a guy named Joe ermine that played in the NFL and he came back and use a volunteer assistant and just talked about all the life lessons that they did it with the coaching and the players I boy I just admired it


David Horsager: Sounds great. What’s the best advice you’ve been given or favorite quote


Jim Johnson: Attitudes are contagious is years worth catching


David Horsager: That’s good attitudes are contagious. Is yours worth catching all right coach Jim Johnson, what is left on the bucket list. What’s the big thing. What do you still hope for.


Jim Johnson: Will


Jim Johnson: Say two things from a


Jim Johnson: Professional standpoint is I just want to continue. I’m working on a second book for leadership by it’s


Jim Johnson: Working with a college professor here in Rochester, and it’s going to be for young and emerging leaders and want to get it done by the end of this year.


Jim Johnson: So I’m really excited about that. And I just want to continue to inspire people with my presentations and just everything I do that in Dave, you made a great point with social media. I want to be very cognizant that when I


Jim Johnson: post something I’m trying to people give people value and I’m trying to inspire and and make them feel a little bit better so that thing.


Jim Johnson: And then from a personal standpoint, what we’re trying to figure out my wife and I, when we get to his pandemic, how we can a little bit closer to my


Jim Johnson: My son and I guess the personal touches because I become an you know i basketball. I was a basketball junkie for over three decades now is a scary thing to say I’m a tennis junkie.


David Horsager: So you are


David Horsager: I’ll tell you what Minnesota’s halfway there from New York to California. So you know you. But the problem is, you’d still have the, the winner for tennis. So maybe you’ll get all the way over there at least partway Arizona’s a good tennis state i here.


David Horsager: Right, so


David Horsager: That’s fantastic. Well, this has been coached Jim Johnson, before I get to the last question, where can they find out more about you.


Jim Johnson: So my website is coach Jim Johnson, Dad, calm, so that way I wouldn’t forget it and


Jim Johnson: You know, I’m on social media. I’m on Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook, and even have started a little bit of Instagram, although I haven’t quite figured that one out yet so


Jim Johnson: But you know, I do post I do an inspirational post every morning that I do a leadership thought every afternoon. I also have a monthly newsletter that they can pick up for free and also a


Jim Johnson: Weekly, a blog that we do. That’s also complimentary and then my book is still selling and if people are interested if they buy it on the website. Right now we’re selling a discount and I, I’d be glad to sign it for them as well so sure.


David Horsager: All right, we’ll put all that information in the show notes trust the leaders show.com Jim. Last question. It’s the trusted leader show. So who is a leader you trust and why


Jim Johnson: You know i i started, write this down because I and I have to break this down real quick for you is that would be multiple from a coaching standpoint and was the late, great john wooden


Jim Johnson: Because I just studied him in the more that I learned I mean obviously what he did at the end of his career. No one’s ever going to match winning 10 national championships, but the more that I learned about the person he was.


Jim Johnson: Really made especially, you know, just to things like that. He was so devoted to his wife, you know, he was a family person. He was so devoted to players and teaching and then


Jim Johnson: As far as like, you know, like I had the pleasure. I know you know them better than I do. But I did get a chance to meet them. I’m just a big Ken Blanchard fan. I


Jim Johnson: And I was a big Stephen Covey fan, because you know what, I think the thing that is what I admire about you, Dave, as well as I believe you live your message and


Jim Johnson: I I’ve always felt that people that I’ve studied or became friends with their new is I wanted to know that I could trust them, because what they said and what they do are consistent and that’s why I admire.


Jim Johnson: Yourself and why I admired. A couple of people. They said, and certainly if I, the last thing I’ll say the one person. I would love to be able to meet just because of what he did for our country would be Dr. Martin Luther King


David Horsager: Yeah. Well, those are some great ones to look at, for sure. Ken Blanchard you know I’m so grateful to know him. But, you know, talking about a guy who’s just the same on stage and off and just


Jim Johnson: Humble and just


David Horsager: wants the best for others. And so lots here, and certainly the way you live life to I’m inspired by and I’m so grateful for you. So lots to take away


David Horsager: From this time together, you know, leading me first. The we over the me make a big three every day and every week time block never bring the phone to the bedroom. Some people could learn from that, I think, never, never bring them.


David Horsager: Don’t look at your email right away in the morning, the daily five make your daily five and for you. It begins with blocking off a workout.


David Horsager: I am responsible love that mantra every morning the create a personal why


David Horsager: Have a personal growth plan and a personal wellness plan a find financial independence plan feed your mind, read a book every week, you’re always on stage.


David Horsager: servant leadership and a whole lot more coach Jim Johnson. Thank you so much for being on the trusted leader show and for all those listening. Thanks for being here. We’ll see you next time. And stay trusted.

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