Ep. 6: Sam Horn on How to Get People’s Attention – And Their Business

In this episode, David sits down with Sam Horn, CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute, to discuss how to get people’s attention and in turn, their business.

Sam’s Bio:
Sam Horn is the CEO of the Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute. Her 3 TEDx talks and 9 books – including Tongue Fu!, POP! and Washington Post bestseller Got Your Attention? – have been featured in New York Times, on NPR, and taught to hundreds of organizations worldwide including Intel, Cisco, Boeing, Capital One, Nationwide, YPO and Accenture. Sam was the Executive Director of the Maui Writers Conference for 17 years and the Pitch Coach for Springboard Enterprises, which has helped entrepreneurs generate $10 billion in funding. She is known for her ability to help people create one-of-a-kind brands, books, businesses, and high-stakes presentations that have scaled their impact – for good.

Sam’s Links:
Website: https://www.intrigueagency.com/
“POP” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3tVvM4m
“Tongue Fu” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/3b3HGk8
“Got You Attention?” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2Ow96aD
“Someday is Not a Day in the Week” by Sam Horn: https://amzn.to/2LU0Gcl
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samhorn/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/samhornintrigue/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/samhornintrigue
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samhornintrigue/

Key Quotes:
1. “Ink it when you think it.”
2. “We make our living from our mind.”
3. “The word “but” destroys trust.”
4. “And” advances conversation, “but” anchors it in an argument.”
5. “Time is the new trust.”
6. “The first way that we build trust online is that we start on time.”
7. “Anxiety can be defined in two words: not knowing.”
8. “Terse is worse.”
9. “If we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business.”
10. “We don’t want to be out of sight out of mind, we want to be top of mind.”
11. “When you’re first of your kind, you own the market.”
12. “If you want to corner the niche, create a niche.”
13. “When you’re one-of-a-kind you have no competition.”
14. “Rhyme is sublime because its remembered over time.”
15. “Don’t reread what you’ve written.”
16. “Progress produces pace. Pace produces mental momentum. Mental momentum produces flow.”
17. “Perfectionism is a form of procrastination.”
18. “We can put ourselves in the shoes of one person. We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea.”
19. “Someday is not a day in the week.”
20. “I have found if you love life, life will love you back.” – Authur Rubenstein
21. “To do what you love and feel that it matters – how could anything be more fun?” – Katherine Graham

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
The Social Dilemma documentary: https://www.netflix.com/title/81254224

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show. I’m David Horsager and I have a special guest someone I from afar have looked up to for a long time. Please welcome the brilliant Sam Horn. How are you, Sam.

Sam Horn: David. I’m so glad to be here. Boy, are we going to have fun and I hope people. People have pen and paper because we’re going to ink it when we think it we’re going to jump right in and the thoughts are going to be flowing so fast, their fingers won’t be able to keep up sound good.

David Horsager: That sounds great. And, you know, some of you may or may not know she’s written nine books. She’s a best selling author, but I think this is interesting. She’s coaster consultant

David Horsager: Executive producer of The Oprah Winfrey Show the CEO of Travelocity she is a, you know, coaches and consulted with the Phantom of the Opera opera.

David Horsager: On Broadway Iron Man triathletes founders co founders, Director of the Disney Institute, you know, she has one of the fast paced innovative minds. I’ve seen I watched her 20 years ago.

David Horsager: Take a CEO onstage and just draw out ideas and be innovative. So Sam we’re, we are just thrilled that you’re here, you know, let’s start out with before we even get into it too much three things we should know about Sam horn.

Sam Horn: Hahaha I use. I play tennis at the White House. And I was playing with the DA, the head of defensive and and he said, grab the tennis balls. I’m thinking nuclear attack. No, it was the Fords Golden Retriever, who are coming to grab our tennis ball so I bet people don’t know that about me.

David Horsager: That’s a good one. That is a good one. And right now, you know, I think as we jump into some of what you think about a lot work that we talked a lot about leadership. Maybe before we get into even some of your books and brilliant ideas.

David Horsager: You what habits. We talked about personal leadership also leads to effective leadership publicly and what habits have you created or routines that have helped you be a better public leader in a way

Sam Horn: You know, David, you’re all about trust, and I believe as leaders we make our living from our mind and I really mean it about Inca when we think it and we have time for like a 62nd story about this.

David Horsager: Anytime anything from you.

Sam Horn: Okay, well, you know, do it. Jones, right. Another Hall of Fame speaker Dwight Jones former National Geographic photographer.

Sam Horn: So I’d asked to do it to the Maui writers conference and we’re walking the beach. The morning before

Sam Horn: And he was doing something that really puzzled me, we would be walking and he’d whip out a notebook and write something down and we’d walk another hundred yards to whip out that notebook write something down

Sam Horn: I said do it. What are you doing, and he said, Sam. I used to get these ideas. And I think all that should go in my keynote. Oh, I’ll put that in my column next week and then I forget about it.

Sam Horn: And I realized I was throwing away gold, and he said, I take a notebook with me wherever I go.

Sam Horn: And and when it occurs to me I jot it down in the moment, because I may not know when or where I’ll use it. I just know it’s going to be there waiting for me.

Sam Horn: And I believe that habit makes our life, our lab, you know, Annie Lamott said writers get to live life twice.

Sam Horn: And I think we get to live it thrice we live life more intensely and we’re more observant than when we see something that gets our eyebrows up we write it down. We share it, and then we hear back from people how they’ve used it. So isn’t that a better way to live.

David Horsager: Well that’s, that’s awesome. And every one of your books is just beautifully written and takeaways and inspiration. But before I go backwards and ask you about some things that have inspired me. What are you writing now.

Sam Horn: I’m working on tongue food too. And you’ve heard of techniques. Right.

Sam Horn: Well, these are talking weeks, you know, in a virtual world with cameras off and videos disengaged and people disengaged, how can we communicate and connect, even if we can’t see each other, even if the person’s on the other side of the world.

David Horsager: Let’s jump into that because I even wanted to go back to tongue foo, because, you know, when we think about trust.

David Horsager: Our greatest opportunity to build trust actually is not in first interaction. Our greatest opportunity to build it the fastest is in crisis.

David Horsager: In conflict and you gave some great takeaways and ideas of how you know think it by what you say and how you say it. You can build trust in conflict or crisis. Give us some ideas. If you’re willing

Sam Horn: All right. Now, by the way, people ask how does my mind work I juxtapose everything

Sam Horn: I think it is the quickest way to make a complex idea crystal clear. So right now, if people are watching this unless they’re driving and listening to it, get a piece of paper and put a vertical line right down the center

Sam Horn: We’re going to have words to lose on the left, we’re going to have words to use on the right. And since you’re about trusted leadership. These words on the left block trust. They sabotage trust.

Sam Horn: The words on the right, build trust they support trust.

Sam Horn: So I’m going to run right through my right over on the left, I’ll tell you, and then listen to the cumulative impact and then we’ll replace him with more proactive words on the right. So put down the word but right on the left.

Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying, but we tried that before and it didn’t work out. You did a good job on that. But you know, it’s like you forgot to the word but destroys trust. It makes it adversarial

Sam Horn: Next, put down the word should someone makes a mistake we said you should have been more careful. You should have brought that up in a staff meeting people resent us even if what we’re saying is right.

Sam Horn: Over on the left, put the word you need to mean we’re bosses right we tell people what to do. Here’s the thing. Do we know anyone who likes to be ordered around, you need to, you have to, you need to get it done today.

Sam Horn: Next one is can’t because I’m sorry. You know, I can’t help you with that because no you can’t do that because it hasn’t been approved yet.

Sam Horn: And I’ve got lots of them one more and then we’ll stop. There’s nothing. Hey, there’s nothing I can do. It’s not my fault. I didn’t make up the rules coven don’t blame me right all of those words will undermine our respect and our trust as a leader so want to know what to replace him with

David Horsager: I’d love to.

David Horsager: And everyone would

Sam Horn: Let’s deals in a little suspense right David

David Horsager: That’s right. I’m writing right now because you’re also making me think of other things, you know, other ideas or


David Horsager: Great. If

Sam Horn: We had more time than we would turn it over to your leaders and we would ask them, think about what do people say that makes him feel shut down. What do people say that causes resentment.

Sam Horn: What do people say that actually creates a conflict and we come up with these whole list on the left and then we show the shift and we replace him with these words on the right, so here’s but put and next to it.

Sam Horn: I hear what you’re saying. And we tried that before and it didn’t work out. And do you have any ideas on how we can do that better.

Sam Horn: And advances conversations but anchors it in an argument. How about that word should

Sam Horn: When something goes wrong. We tell people what they should have done. Ah, over on the right, next time from now on in the future.

Sam Horn: Because now we’re being a coach, instead of a critic, we are shaping behavior, instead of shaming it and people are learning from their mistakes instead of losing face ready. Next one, or shall I stop at any time you can tell me to put a sock in a David

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: I love it. This is the, this is what we’re going for. I love this.

Sam Horn: All right.

David Horsager: Next one, everybody. I can speak for everybody. By the way, and I hear I interrupt, but I can tell everybody. Love you got

David Horsager: more energy than you know 95% of people and I just love it. But more than that, takeaways. We can use tomorrow morning. So thank you.

Sam Horn: That’s, that’s what we both value. Right. It’s like we’re leaders come on the clock starts ticking the second we start talking. Let’s get real life value we can apply immediately right

David Horsager: Absolutely and that’s what I saw 20 years ago and I know of still today. So thank you for that. Let’s go. You need to

Sam Horn: You need you.

Sam Horn: If you would, could you please instead of you need to get that done today, you know, could you please make sure that gets done today. It’s really important. So see, we give the rationale

Sam Horn: It’s just that people are a lot more likely to come to operate willingly instead of comply reluctantly. When we asked them, and treat them with respect, instead of ordering them around with those commands, right. Ready for the next one.

David Horsager: Ready can’t. Yeah, I can’t because

Sam Horn: Can as soon as I can, right after instead of no we can’t start this meeting because we’re still missing three of our board members.

Sam Horn: Yes, we can start the meeting as soon as those board members show up. And if they’re not here in five minutes. We’re going to get started. Anyway, thank you for your patience. Now, by the way, David, are you a father.

David Horsager: I have four kids.

Sam Horn: Or kids. Boom. Let’s talk about how we can use this at home. Right.

Sam Horn: It’s like a dad said this was going to change the way he parented he said Sam I had three kids under the age of 10

Sam Horn: It seems like all I ever do is tell them no. No, you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t done your homework, you can’t watch TV because you haven’t done your chores.

Sam Horn: And then we usually do what’s called stalking you know the rules around here that TV doesn’t go on until those chores are finished, how many times, you’ll have and we’re off and running. Right.

David Horsager: Absolutely. I hear it all. I can see it.

Sam Horn: Okay, now you do this change it instead of no you can’t play with your friends because you haven’t finished your chores. How would you turn that around.

David Horsager: You can’t. No, you can’t be on the, whatever it is. This video game and tell or as soon as you this

David Horsager: As soon as you have all your chores done or

Sam Horn: We can even turn it into a yes. Instead of no you can’t. Because yes, you can play with your friends.

Sam Horn: As soon as you finish your chores clean up your room. Take out the trash and then you can go out and shoot rooms.

Sam Horn: Yes, you can watch TV. As soon as you finish your homework, you know, do your math. Let me have a look at it. Then you can turn

Sam Horn: And AND YOU KNOW WHAT THIS IS NOT semantics. It changes the whole dynamic of the relationship because when we say no, you can’t because they see us as blocking them from what it is they want when we say yes, you can. As soon as who’s responsible for getting what it is they want now.

David Horsager: We put the responsibility back on them.

David Horsager: Yes, I love it.

Sam Horn: That’s right.

David Horsager: As long as we’re into tongue foo. Let’s go to point O and say, what about a virtual environment. What about this world where and how do we build in our case, build trust and communicate well, even in this environment that we’re stuck in. And frankly, in many ways, that will be forever.

Sam Horn: You know, I just love this question, Richard Branson said time is the new money and you know what I say time is the new trust.

Sam Horn: And I think the first way that we build trust online is that we start on time is because did you know anxiety can be defined in two words, not knowing

Sam Horn: And if we log on and first if people say well I know we’re supposed to start, but we’re going to wait for late comers.

Sam Horn: What’s that about we’re honoring the late comers, not the p you know rewarded behavior gets repeated right. What are we teaching. So if we want people to trust us to always be a good use of their time. We always start on time, because time equals trust. Right.

David Horsager: No doubt, no doubt.

Sam Horn: The next thing is we book in our interactions with goodwill.

Sam Horn: And I’ll give you a quick example of this. I had an opportunity to do a webinar for very large organization and my contact the meeting planner spent a lot of time on this.

Sam Horn: And it went pretty well. And they had more people ever that signed up for this. They got wonderful comments in chat.

Sam Horn: And I was copied on the email of the CEO to the meeting planner, it had two lines in a David it said

Sam Horn: Why weren’t the PowerPoint slides on our template and why didn’t you think the sponsors.

Sam Horn: That was it. David didn’t say thing about the months of work into it didn’t say, Hey, congratulations on getting more people than we’ve had before. Hey, look at those comments.

Sam Horn: So here’s the prescription because we’re proactive, how can we do it better is to start every email with a reference to a previous interaction.

Sam Horn: Even if it’s a problem. It’s like, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am so glad you told us that you left three voice messages, who we haven’t gotten back yet.

Sam Horn: So it’s like, hey, how did that 10 K go you know if it’s like we reference something in the previous email because that sense of continuity and it personalizes it instead of having this terse is worse.

Sam Horn: And then we wrap up with like I’m it’s, it’s, I look forward. I look forward to seeing you next week. I look forward to getting you know feedback on this project.

Sam Horn: And if we start and we close. That’s called book ending and authors know this, that when we start warm and we end warm it gives people this full circle sense of completion.

Sam Horn: And they feel like they got what they came for. And we are making professional communication personal which warms up what otherwise is a cold medium.

David Horsager: Absolutely. Anything we, you know, with all this interaction. I just did a big global event today with hundreds of people on anything as communicators professional communicators, we should be thinking about to connect with the audience in that virtual environment. What can we do more of

Sam Horn: Names in places names in places, you know, people people feel remote right and they feel anonymous

Sam Horn: And that’s when they start feeling very distant and they feel a part from the group instead of feeling a part of the group.

Sam Horn: So when we asked for questions. It’s like, Hey Sue from St. Louis, you know, you got a question over here. And it’s a bob some for Santa Barbara, you know, it’s like

Sam Horn: Now people feel like they’re part of a community and they know oh my goodness there’s 30 countries on this call, you know, and we’ve got Jose from Mexico. And we’ve got so she’s for from

Sam Horn: And and by giving people names we give them an identity and even if we can’t name all 5000 people on the call. These are standing representatives, so people feel like we’re seeing them instead of just on automatic pilot giving a speech that we’ve given 100 times before.

David Horsager: I love it. Let’s we could go deeper on every one of these and I keep going and you tell us where you want to go to, because you’ve got so much, you’re thinking about right now but

David Horsager: Your book pop tell us just a glimpse about that because that was a fascinating one. And that was, you know, kind of, when I started know you. I think

Sam Horn: You know, thank you. In fact, I was so I was thrilled when Seth Godin got in touch and gave me the cover endorsement for the book. He said, a quarter of the way through this book you’ll be begging to hire Sam Hornish your consultant. I’m going. Thank you sell

David Horsager: Absolutely. So tell us about what what’s that stamp. What is pop. How do I get credit, you know, I can stand out in a crowd. I can create a competitive advantage.

David Horsager: What does that mean to pop

Sam Horn: Well, if we can’t get people’s attention, we’re never going to get their business right

Sam Horn: And in a very crowded competitive society if we don’t have a secret sauce, if we aren’t doing something that isn’t on. How are we uncommon. How are we, unlike our competitors. So, of course, I’ve got dozens of techniques on how to do this. So shall we just give like P. O. P. Right now three

David Horsager: Do it. Yeah, let’s do that.

Sam Horn: Okay. So P is for purposeful and here’s my question to you is when people finish reading your website when they finish hearing your TEDx talk when they finish hearing your, your annual meeting, can they repeat anything they heard, word for word.

Sam Horn: Because if they can’t. That’s not purposeful. Now this idea comes from Garry Marshall, by the way, did you see the movie. Pretty Woman

Sam Horn: Yes. Okay. Gary was the director, producer, that he said something at Maui writers conference. It was so profound I remembered as if he said it this morning. He said, Hollywood directors can predict when their movies will make money based on one thing, guess what it was.

David Horsager: Purpose. Purpose.

Sam Horn: It. Yep, it is. That wasn’t a trick question, and

Sam Horn: It is. Can people repeat anything, word for word because if someone says seen any good movies recently and you say, make my day all be back. Show me the money.

Sam Horn: They have become brand ambassadors for you. They’re taking your work viral, so all of your leaders on your goal on your company’s website, you know,

Sam Horn: At the end of a presentation to your employees, say, What do you remember

Sam Horn: And if they can’t repeat anything, it means it’s out of sight, out of mind. We don’t want to be out of sight, out of mind. We want to be top of mind. And one way to do that is to make sure every communication has a stated purpose that is repeatable and repeatable.

David Horsager: That’s perfect. What about that. Oh.

Sam Horn: Okay, always for original and, you know, we’ve heard that there’s nothing new under the sun. Right.

Sam Horn: I disagree. I think that our success depends on coming up with something that’s new under the sun. Now I’ve got a lot of ways to do that. One is just to do the opposite of the always

Sam Horn: And here’s a wonderful example of that. Do you know that when enterprise entered the car rental agency market years ago.

Sam Horn: 80% market share hurts and Avis number one and number 280 percent market share.

Sam Horn: Now, why would you go into an industry that was owned by the big boys. Will you ask yourself two questions. What do they all do.

Sam Horn: Well, they’re all located at airports, so don’t locate in airports go in the neighborhoods. Right. And ask yourself. Another question, what do customers want

Sam Horn: That none of them are offering. What did customers want pick up and drop off service.

Sam Horn: So enterprise was first of its kind. And when you’re first of your kind you own the market, you have no competition. By the way, guess who owns the well. They don’t own, but they have the largest market share worldwide in that car rental agency in history.

Sam Horn: And history enterprise enterprise.

Sam Horn: Wow. And so see

Sam Horn: All of your leaders. I know that you you work with people around the globe in all kinds of different industries and if we think I can’t compete with them. You can, if your original and here are just two ways to do that. What are they all do.

Sam Horn: go head to head with them, right, I’m gonna go where they’re not. And then what do people want that they don’t offer and I’m going to be first to market with that.

David Horsager: I know something you say along those lines as you want to corner the niche create an edge.

David Horsager: Right. You want exactly right.

David Horsager: Or I this one too. When you’re one of a kind. You have no competition.

David Horsager: Well, live it and said, All right, let’s go to that final P on pop

Sam Horn: Okay, now I’ve switched this around, since I wrote the book pop edit and this one is for promote

Sam Horn: Because I really believe that that leaders kind of feel like they’re like doctors and lawyers used to be. It’s like we don’t self promote right i mean that’s like been below me. That’s beneath me and it’s out of integrity.

Sam Horn: And I really believe if you believe in what you care about. If you have a cause. If you believe in your company.

Sam Horn: If you are not promoting it through speaking at a TEDx or through a quality book, you know, people may not be aware of it. And that doesn’t serve any good purpose doesn’t. So do we have

Sam Horn: Time for very courteous. Okay, so I was hired by a health executive I had a big Six Sigma training company and he was going to be speaking at a medical conference.

Sam Horn: And it was good news, bad news. At first he speaking at this medical conference with thousands of decision makers in the healthcare industry.

Sam Horn: The bad news. Was he was going on the fourth day of a four day conference in the afternoon. He said, Sam. I don’t even think people kind of be around.

Sam Horn: So I talked him through my seven p process to come up with something that would help him pop out of the brochure and that would motivate these decision makers to come to his session.

Sam Horn: Now I’m not going to go through the whole process just suffice it to say that one of the ways we pop out is that we leverage what you do.

Sam Horn: As a hobby or special interest. It is a way to make what is familiar fresh and so I said, What do you do when you’re not working.

Sam Horn: It’s them. I’m never not working. I’m on the road. Five, six days a week. I said, well, when you’re home. Do you and your wife do anything. He says, Well, sometimes I play. I mean, I watch law and order at the TV show thing though I knew what it was.

Sam Horn: Now you know what six sigma

David Horsager: Is right David, of course.

Sam Horn: If you were going to explain it to our audience what is six sigma. So, people kind of understand it.

David Horsager: Well, I’ve never been through it, but I would say it’s it’s creating a taking out any extras and making a lean environment. So no, no extra

Sam Horn: Oh, you just did it is that they they figure out the errors. The, the inconsistency is the inefficiencies and they clean them out. So it’s lean and so they have a very highly efficient highly profitable system right

Sam Horn: So when he said he watches flaw and or when he watches law in order go I knew what we’re going to call this program. Guess what it was called

Sam Horn: Flaw in order


David Horsager: Well, how do you stay

David Horsager: How do you stay so creative and innovative. I mean, how do you keep that mind thinking, you know, it seems like

David Horsager: Some people could be listening to you and saying, well, she just connects these things she did they just come out of her head, and certainly there’s a gifting but there also is almost, it seems like a, a way of doing it that that makes you creative and fresh even right now.

Sam Horn: You know, first, thank you for that. And I think that’s why Seth, who is a very generous supporter of other business authors and entrepreneurs why he endorsed that book is that

Sam Horn: There are techniques in pop that can help you be creative, even if you’re not creative. One of them is called alpha appetising

Sam Horn: You actually go through your website, you go through a presentation you give you pull out 10 to 20 words. That’s your word bank.

Sam Horn: Then you run them through the alphabet. Think about it. Tongue foo is an alpha ties form of Kung Fu

Sam Horn: Someone said this is kind of like a verbal form of Kung Fu run it through the alphabet on food been food some food done Foo Young food.

Sam Horn: eventually get to tongue food right you don’t stop there though there’s unto others fun foo, how to handle hassles with the humor and there’s let’s see tongue sue for lawyers and then there’s young food for kids.

David Horsager: Are you go, wow.

Sam Horn: And if your leaders are thinking, Sam. That’s

Sam Horn: cutesy. Hey, I’m a sophisticated executive of a multi million dollar billion dollar company. We’re not always talking about cutesy. In fact, can I tell you

Sam Horn: About an example that saves lives with what we’re doing. It’s, it’s not cutesy. It’s not word play. It’s bottom line saving lives. Do we have time.

David Horsager: What is it, please.

David Horsager: No, please don’t, we don’t want to save any lives.

David Horsager: Absolutely. Keep on. That’s great. What, what is it,

Sam Horn: Well, we talked about how to come up with airtight sound bites. Right. So what we say is repeatable repeatable and the R stands for Ryan Ryan is sublime because it’s remembered over time.

Sam Horn: So the US government was very concerned about injuries and fatalities and accidents, so they mounted a multi million dollar

Sam Horn: Public Service campaign and it was called buckle up for safety. Oh, clunky right you know nothing changed nothing happened. They went back to the drawing board. This time they came up with a rhyme. Guess what it was.

David Horsager: I got to hear it.

Sam Horn: Click It or Ticket David compliance went up and injuries and fatalities went down.

Sam Horn: Do you see this as not silly wordplay. It is the difference between what we say goes on uninterested ears and no behavior change or whether people see it and they’re motivated to change their behavior and actually reduce fatalities and injuries.

David Horsager: Right. So let’s take, you know, you were, you were for years and years, the Executive Director of the Maui writers

David Horsager: Conference most, one of the most notable writers events in the world, but you’re a writer and a speaker and a leader and all these things. But let’s go to writing because

David Horsager: Do you have a discipline of writing every day. THE LAST GUEST. I had was big on journaling and just how just journaling helped him lead as a leader, but tell us about the discipline of it for you.

Sam Horn: If, if you said, Sam. You can only give one tip after helping many, many, many people with their books and so forth. You can only give one tip. Do you know what it would be.

David Horsager: I, I can’t wait to hear it.

Sam Horn: Don’t reread what you’ve written because if you reread what you’ve written your rewrite what you’ve written and at the end of the week. It won’t necessarily be better. It will just be different.

Sam Horn: Progress produces pace pace produces mental momentum mental momentum produces flow, flow is that stream of conscious state. Not that self conscious state.

Sam Horn: Because if we edit as we go. The critical voice kills the creative voice, we come to a screeching halt. Now we’re stuck right

Sam Horn: And the way to get out of that is produce produce produce produce produce produce predict, that’s when the voice comes out and plays because it knows it’s not going to get judged.

David Horsager: And yet, at some point, it seems like we’re going to be judged. We have to critique my wise older brother, the economist says you were in a more critical world than we’ve ever been in without the ability to critically think right

David Horsager: If you’re a leader.

David Horsager: Leader, you want to be critiqued for living give a speech, write a book or lead anything so

David Horsager: How do we do this.

Sam Horn: And then this is a two part answer because obviously when we finish five chapters. We reread them right when we finish a blog and we set it aside for day we come back with fresh eyes and at that point.

Sam Horn: You see the key though is first, get it written then get it right draft then craft. Most of us we craft as we’re drafting, you know, we’re editing as we go.

Sam Horn: We’re trying to get it right. As we get it written. And when we do that, it will probably never get out the door because perfectionism is a form of procrastination.

David Horsager: So let’s go long form, you’re an amazing storyteller. Tell us about the power of story and and how you leverage story as a leader.

Sam Horn: David, we could do this all day couldn’t

David Horsager: Be good. And I’m going to suck the life out of your brain with the few minutes that I have

Sam Horn: Okay, well this is credit to Shankar Vedanta Sean Connery Don time who does hidden brain on NPR wrote an article in the Washington Post years ago.

Sam Horn: About and this does get to storytelling. In fact, it’s probably one of the most eye opening insights about the power of storytelling to motivate people to care about what we care about. So, so hang in there because it does serve a purpose. Okay.

Sam Horn: Here is this oil tanker they’re caught fire 800 miles off the coast of Hawaii and a cruise ship happened to be going by and was able to rescue the 11 people

Sam Horn: The captain gave a press conference and he talked about how grateful he was to be rescued all he can think about is his dog that got left behind abandoned on the tanker

Sam Horn: And that press conference went viral and donations started pouring in from around the world $5 $500 $5,000

Sam Horn: The US Navy change the exercise area of the Pacific Fleet they searched 50,000 square miles of open ocean, they find the tanker

Sam Horn: They send the C 130 to fly low to see if there’s any signs of life. Here’s this brown and white blur racing up and down the deck of a tanker

Sam Horn: They mount a quarter of a million dollar rescue mission to get this dog and they are able to bring hot get back to Hawaii. Now, what’s the point

Sam Horn: Here’s the point. Why did people from around the world mobilize to save one dog when there are thousands of people in our own cities and states and countries going without food, water and shelter.

Sam Horn: It’s because of something called the empathy telescope and the empathy telescope says we can put ourselves in the shoes of one person.

Sam Horn: We cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an idea. We can put ourselves in the shoes of an individual, we cannot put ourselves in the shoes of an organization.

Sam Horn: So every leader who is listening to this, David, what is your dog going to take her story.

Sam Horn: Because if we want people to care about what we care about. If we’re just trotting out big numbers. That’s when people look away because it seems overwhelming.

Sam Horn: And when we’re overwhelmed. We’re mobilized if we tell the story of one person.

Sam Horn: Who had a problem or challenge and work with us or bought our product or used our services and now they’re better off, we can identify without one person that’s when we relate to it. That’s when we remember it. And that’s when we want it.

David Horsager: That is powerful.

David Horsager: We can put ourselves only in the shoes of one person.

David Horsager: So there’s a whole lot more. We could cover, but let’s think you’ve written some on productivity and we often get right at some tips, people can take tomorrow that would help them be better, more effective, more efficient as leaders. What’s the tip of the day for us from Sam horn.

Sam Horn: It someday is not a day in the week.

Sam Horn: And that Paulo Coelho said that one day, we’re going to wake up and there won’t be any time left to do the things we’ve always wanted to do.

Sam Horn: And when I work with leaders. We often say, What’s your legacy message, you know, what’s your legacy project.

Sam Horn: How can we leverage your E your experience, your expertise and your Tiffany’s so everything you’ve learned along the way, doesn’t just stay up here.

Sam Horn: It’s out there making a difference for people and will be out there making a difference for people long after you’re gone. So what is that, and then start it put a date on the calendar instead of waiting for someday that may never come.

David Horsager: So what about you.

David Horsager: What’s your, what do you hope for you look out in the future. Let’s, let’s, Sam horns someday or out there or vision for what’s ahead, you’ve done so many remarkable things many things you’ve done through others by equipping and encouraging and impacting them.

David Horsager: What is it for you.

Sam Horn: You know, David. And once again, credit to this Jan Struthers came up with a quote. She said she was twice blessed, she was happy and she knew it.

Sam Horn: Is that lovely and I am so happy and I know it. And so I have a foot in both worlds. I live in Austin, Texas. Now, and

Sam Horn: My son and his family and my grandson live 12 minutes away. And so, one foot is in this world where everything is right in my world. I love where I am. I love my friends and my family and the time to spend with them.

Sam Horn: And the other foot is is in an icky guy. And are you familiar with the phrase achy guy, by any chance,

David Horsager: I’m not

Sam Horn: It’s it’s a Japanese word. It means a reason to get up in the morning. So what is your EQ guy goal and mine right now in tandem side by side.

Sam Horn: Is is getting the tongue.

Sam Horn: Book out in the world next year so that people can use these techniques at work at home online and in public.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: Well, let’s let’s keep going.

David Horsager: Just keep we got to come back on as that book comes out. Let’s come back and and talk about this more but we go as we head to the end here, we hit a lightning round for everybody. It’s your turn, but

David Horsager: Let’s just start and we’ll get to anything else. If you want to cover something else after that you feel like, boy, I’ve got to share this. I want to hear it.

David Horsager: So,

David Horsager: Here we go. Favorite book or resource right now.

Sam Horn: Oh right now who, you know, what I would recommend a social dilemma on Netflix, you know, it’s, it is an eye opener about the addiction to social media and the ripple effect of isolation and depression and disconnection.

David Horsager: We watch very little TV. One of our biggest

David Horsager: Acts for my wife and I, is dealing with the kids on screen time and we watched it as a family. We talked about we had put parameters in place and whatnot, but very powerful and I can’t agree more. What’s something you can’t live without.

Sam Horn: Walking walking and swimming. I’m I’ve got a pool five minutes away in nature, open lanes. No, no, sharing lanes people kicking you in your face and so forth. So walking and swimming. I’m a happy camper.

David Horsager: Is I love it any key. Speaking of that, you know, leading yourself as important to leading others so unique key personal habit or routine, you have that just makes you better as a person or leader.

Sam Horn: It’s it’s clarify my three C’s and these are my non negotiable is everyday.

Sam Horn: Dale Carnegie said to live in a tight compartments and I believe in living in day right compartments. So I asked all of us to think, what are three things we do.

Sam Horn: And at the end of the day, no matter what else happened if we do these three we feel we did our half and those who may or connect contribute and cohort.

David Horsager: What was your cohort, most recently.

Sam Horn: My, my cohort is to move joyously you know and and really so like, yeah, I do laps. I, however, and I understand the importance of exercise and sweating and anaerobic and heart rate and so forth.

Sam Horn: However cavorting is doing what tick not Han said is to walk as if your feet are kissing the earth.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: I love it. Wow. Well, you shared many of them. And I know you have more. So what is a quote or thought to live by.

Sam Horn: It for me. Uh, well, can I do too.

Sam Horn: Is I often start every presentation with this quote because it really is a mantra for life is that Arthur Rubinstein said I have found if you love life, life will love you back.

Sam Horn: You know, and then I usually say, I love this program and to help you love it back, etc. However, I believe, go first. Right. We love life and then it will love us back.

Sam Horn: And the second is the one you and I shared at the beginning, David. It’s what Katharine Graham of The Washington Post said a reporter asked her what it was like running at that point, one of the country’s most important newspapers and she thought about it for a moment, she said.

Sam Horn: To do what you love and feel that it matters how could anything be more fun. Well, that’s what we get to do we get to do what we love feel that it matters and do it with people we enjoy and respect that put the light on in her eyes.

Sam Horn: Pretty good.

David Horsager: Isn’t it on deniability. I love it.

David Horsager: You got a question for us today can’t. I’m going to go to me first. My favorite food is ice cream. Everybody knows that. My favorite flavor. I will not share to influence you. But what’s your favorite flavor of ice cream.


Sam Horn: Huh, I guess it’s let’s give a shout out to Ben and Jerry’s is is everything but the, whatever. It’s got everything but the

Kitchen Sink

David Horsager: Maybe for you. I should say this. What’s your favorite food.


Sam Horn: You know, I would have to say what what I’m just going top of mine right now, fresh watermelon right batches.

David Horsager: Absolutely.

David Horsager: And for someone who loves, loves Hawaii. And, you know, just the summertime fun. Not that not that watermelons are known in Hawaii, but

David Horsager: Great. Well, I’ve got one more big question for you. But before we do that,

David Horsager: What a treat in this conversation. Sam, where can our listeners, find out more about you will put it all in the show notes. We’re going to put some connections. The Sam horn and

David Horsager: Her amazing books and tips and takeaways and where you can find out more about her, but give us the first place we should go.

Sam Horn: Thank you for doing that, David, it’s easy, it’s intrigue agency com so it’s i n TR I G agency, there’s information there about my pop master classes and my

Sam Horn: writing workshops and my TEDx talk is on there as well on how to get people’s eyebrows up in the first 60 seconds so intrigue agency com

David Horsager: Intrigue agency and she has more than one TED talk. I won’t TEDx talk, I’ll let you know she has a few and they’re all fantastic. So Sam. What a treat to have you here. Here’s the final question. It’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why


Sam Horn: You know I trusted and he’s still around. Rod Laver I had the the privilege of working with Rod Laver won the Grand Slam of tennis twice Australian French Wimbledon.

Sam Horn: And one of the reasons that I trusted rocket is that he was such a class act he worked hard and he played hard and he was he was perpetually gracious

Sam Horn: You know, people would come up and say, I saw you play in St. Louis. He was always kind to every single person he met and so kudos to rocket for the example of class that he said it was enjoy working with him. What a treat to see people

David Horsager: That have class, as we say say onstage and off right

David Horsager: So well, it is been a delight. Thank you, Sam horn, for joining me. Thank you for the gift. You’ve given to our audience. And of course, you can find a whole lot more about Sam horn at trusted leader show.com

David Horsager: Look forward to seeing you next time and stay trusted

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