Ep. 13: Jason Dorsey on How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business

In this episode, David sits down with Jason Dorsey, #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor, to discuss how Gen Z will change the future of business.

Jason’s Bio:
Jason Dorsey is on a mission to separate generational myth from truth so leaders can drive results with every generation. Jason is recognized as the #1 Gen Z and Millennials researcher, speaker, and executive advisor. He has been featured on over 200 TV shows from 60 Minutes to the Today Show. As President of The Center for Generational Kinetics, Jason and his team have led more than 65 generational research studies around the world. His clients include many of the biggest global brands as well as rapidly growing startups, PE, and VC. An acclaimed speaker, Jason has received over 1,000 standing ovations. His latest bestselling book is Zconomy: How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business–and What To Do About It. Learn more about Jason at JasonDorsey.com or on his research website, GenHQ.com.

Jason’s Links:
Website: https://jasondorsey.com/
The Center for Generational Kinetics: https://genhq.com/
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondorsey/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasondorsey
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jason.ryan.dorsey
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jason_dorsey/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/thegenyguy

Key Quotes:
1. “Every generation brings something important and valuable.”
2. “It’s not about catering to any one generation.”
3. “Frequency of communication is very important.”
4. “Gen Z wants to be heard.”
5. “Provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.”
6. “Communication varies in interpretation by generation.”
7. “Gen Z expects faster access to the money they earn.”
8. “Video is the #1 way to educate Gen Z.”
9. “Every generation is having a different experience in the time of COVID.”
10. “The greatest way to test a culture is to talk to the front line leaders.”
11. “If you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability.”
12. “You want to make it safe for people to ask for help.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“Zconomy” by Jason Dorsey and Denise Villa, PhD: https://amzn.to/308RXGt
“The Alchemist” by Paulo Coelho: https://amzn.to/2O7Ho3T
“Trusted Leader” by David Horsager: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/
Apple iPhone: https://www.apple.com/iphone/
Apple iCloud: https://www.apple.com/icloud/

Buy David’s NEW book Trusted Leader: https://www.trustedleaderbook.com/

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Show Transcript

David Horsager: it’s the trusted leader show i’m David Horsager and i’m joined by a special guest, who is also a very close friend we.

Jason Dorsey: love that.

David Horsager: Jason Dorsey welcome.

Jason Dorsey: hey Thank you David really a pleasure to get to be with you and I have this conversation and and share all these great new insights with your fans followers platform and everybody else who’s interested in trusted leadership, because that is important, so thank you for inviting me on.

David Horsager: Thank you, many people know they may not know, but he’s been on the today show he’s been on 60 minutes he is the foremost expert in generations and he’s president of the Center of generational kinetics.

David Horsager: And he’s just he’s a brilliant leader brilliant entrepreneur and business leaders a board member he’s on you know just advising some of the top leaders in the world and i’m just i’m grateful to call you friend Jason so.

David Horsager: yeah going.

Jason Dorsey: yeah glad to be here with you all that stuff is generally true, so thank you for sharing that.

David Horsager: There you go, so you know let’s jump right in because the new book is called Z economy, and you know you’re an expert on generations you’ve been talking about this for decades.

David Horsager: But this new generation I think people are kind of like what what really is that what’s that mean is that gen Z is that this is it that tell us about how does gen Z play into how do we lead them who are they.

Jason Dorsey: yeah I think it’s probably helpful to maybe take a step back and share how we think about generations, and then we can jump into gen Z because.

Jason Dorsey: I think that’ll get anybody on the same page so when we think about generations, the concept.

Jason Dorsey: You know we’re research firm and we specifically do behavioral research and teaching K our company’s called the Center for generational kinetics.

Jason Dorsey: And when we think about gen Z or outside the US we call them Jen said.

Jason Dorsey: we’re really focused on understanding of who they are, what makes them similar what makes them different what technologies do they use, how do they look for a job, what do they look for an employer.

Jason Dorsey: How they think about money and retirement and marriage and all these different types of things, and so in our work, what I think is most important.

Jason Dorsey: Is we’ve uncovered through data through we’ve led more than 65 studies that much of what is said about generations it’s just not true.

Jason Dorsey: And you and I have both live that right i’m a millennial and people say oh millennials are entitled the pencil fallen off they don’t show up for work they’re terrible leaders.

Jason Dorsey: And then we look at the data and it turns out more millennials are working than anyone else so United States and they’re more millennial managers.

Jason Dorsey: Or you say well gen X, you know your engine X can gen X be loyal and what our research shows us they’re incredibly loyal and very good at making decisions and leading.

Jason Dorsey: And so what we’ve uncovered is that every generation bring something really important invaluable and that’s particularly true with gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: Who is very misunderstood and that’s why we wrote the news economy book, thank you for mentioning that we were thrilled it was a number one new release on Amazon and a top 10 business book on forbes so we’re super excited to have that out, so when we think about gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: The first thing to sort of think about is when were they born that helps us to have a little bit of a mental framework to know when they start and stop so based on our research gen Z is born starting around 1996.

Jason Dorsey: and for your listeners, who are based in the US, where that comes from is, they do not remember 911.

Jason Dorsey: And that was one of our most famous discoveries early on, is that, how do we know when millennials and gen Z begins.

Jason Dorsey: Sometimes there’s a generation defining moment you remember it, it creates fear of the unknown uncertainty emotion, all these things for me on 911 I remember, I was in Los Angeles, I was there with my dad.

Jason Dorsey: was totally freaking out my dad was completely stone faced didn’t you know share any emotion, even though we’re watching the same TV.

Jason Dorsey: And about 30 minutes later my grandfather called he was about eight years old, then and and he said J boy it’s going to be okay.

Jason Dorsey: i’ve been through this before we got through it we’ll get through it again it’s going to be okay, I promise.

Jason Dorsey: And so, he was watching 911 and he was thinking about World War Two and for him those Pearl harbor.

Jason Dorsey: My dad years later, told me he was thinking about the Vietnam draft and he thought I was about to get drafted that’s why he had no emotion.

Jason Dorsey: I had no context for this so i’m just freaking out because you know my family’s from New York and I went to school there, and all this.

Jason Dorsey: gen Z this is really key does not remember 911.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not a contemporary event for them it’d be like asking you or me to talk about the JFK assassination we weren’t there we don’t know we can watch on YouTube but it’s not the same, because you don’t have that fear of the unknown.

Jason Dorsey: So that’s What helps us to understand when this gen Z start, and then you get to that what when does gen Z and right yeah it’s like what are the book ends.

Jason Dorsey: And what we what we believe to be true is that gen Z ends around 2015, and the reason is, we believe the capstone event is now coven 19 this pandemic.

Jason Dorsey: And so, as we think about coven 19 and how it’s impacting the generation.

Jason Dorsey: This is there, where were you when moment because Member there now right at that formative stage or in middle school or elementary or they’re in college university or they’re in the workforce.

Jason Dorsey: And all of a sudden everything they’ve known has been offended they had to come back home if they had left the House maybe they can’t leave.

Jason Dorsey: All of these things have suddenly change the job that they were going to do that industry, no longer has any jobs.

Jason Dorsey: there’s so much here, and then you add the social and emotional of homeschool and remote school and just on on on dating and you can’t go to work, like all of this stuff put together.

Jason Dorsey: This is the 911 for gen Z but even more so because it’s extended over.

Jason Dorsey: Such a long period of time so as we think about that the oldest members of gen Z are roughly around 25 years old.

Jason Dorsey: What do we know about them sort of directly to your question, we know they’re the most diverse generation in United States history, more diverse than any previous generation and that’s a huge part of who they are.

Jason Dorsey: What our research shows us is they’re much more tied to social causes when we think about employers, we just did our new state of gen Z study on this.

Jason Dorsey: And the social causes that gen Z really aligns with are incredibly important they look for that before they apply they look for that after they apply, whether or not they’re deciding to accept a job.

Jason Dorsey: And now, they even look at whether or not they’re going to stay with an employer, based on the social causes that the employer selects so, for example.

Jason Dorsey: In the last four years we’ve tracked social causes for employers when it comes to leadership with gen Z most wanted was to know that a company was combating climate change, that was the big sort of rally cry that generation.

Jason Dorsey: But what we’ve seen now is that their big biggest biggest by far rally cry what gets them fired up is social justice and really trying to make some changes there so they’re looking for that and employers that’s changed over the last year.

Jason Dorsey: We also know, a gen Z is they don’t remember a time before the smartphone well that changes everything when you think to your area of expertise.

Jason Dorsey: Around leadership and communication even trust, which are the world expert on all of those things changed.

Jason Dorsey: When your your preferred method of communicating and engaging with the world is a small screen and that’s all you’ve ever know well that affects everything right from banking to onboarding.

Jason Dorsey: So, as we think about the generation, they have a different relationship with technology like right now what we’re tracking is they want onboarding by text message.

Jason Dorsey: Well, many companies aren’t set up to do that they’re not set up to have communication that way.

Jason Dorsey: we’re also seeing with the generation, and this is sort of the last one i’ll leave you with before you jump into your next question.

Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is very frugal with their money, and this is probably the most shocking for many people, because when you think about the.

Jason Dorsey: 19 or 22 year old or 15 year old you think Oh well, they’re out there just sort of blowing their money, whatever they are and they’re spending it and it’s completely the opposite.

Jason Dorsey: This generation was shaped to the great recession and now they’ve seen the economic impact of Kobe and as a result of that what our research shows consistently we do so many of these studies.

Jason Dorsey: Is that gen Z is much more conservative or practical with their money in fact so important for all your leaders listening.

Jason Dorsey: When gen Z is considering an employer, they want to know the employer is stable well that’s a big difference than a typical teenager early 20 something.

Jason Dorsey: They want to know that employers going to offer them benefits what nine year olds that are what are your benefits well now that’s a common thing.

Jason Dorsey: They want to know that there’s retirement matching These are all things we proved out in our studies and go into detail in the book.

Jason Dorsey: But the key here is what they’re looking for doesn’t match their life stage but it actually does if you experience the events that they experience so they’re very different generation and the key is they’re not millennials to point out.

Jason Dorsey: And what I think is so important about this conversation for the type of work you do.

Jason Dorsey: Is many of the leaders who follow you and learn from you and trust you as a developer and leadership skills.

Jason Dorsey: You know, they were caught flat footed around millennials.

Jason Dorsey: millennials they thought would grow out of it, they didn’t create all kinds of change and now, people are catching up and certainly trying to navigate that the flip side is leaders are now going we don’t want that to happen again.

Jason Dorsey: So So what do we need to know about gen Z and that’s really exciting, because we think this generation bring so much to the workforce, just like every generation does and.

Jason Dorsey: This is a really critical time because right now gen Z is the fastest growing generation on a percentage basis.

Jason Dorsey: And they’re the most consistent generation around the world, so we look at it fastest growing generation, the workforce on a percentage basis.

Jason Dorsey: And the most consistent not exactly the same, but most consistent around the world, so getting gen Z right creates tremendous opportunity for leaders today.

David Horsager: So those opportunities, you know we’ve got up there, the social causes technology frugal is he you know it’s kind of.

David Horsager: easy to say okay everybody every leader now you have to give the best benefit plan give give give give give but what can we do like what are the opportunities, how do we, how do we motivate, how do we create the a place where every generation and gen Z can be their best.

Jason Dorsey: yeah and the way you sort of asked us that question I think it’s really the secret.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not about catering to anyone generation, you know I speak for clients all over the world, now that you and I both live in this virtual presentation.

Jason Dorsey: And everybody wants to know how do we adapt to gen Z or how do we adapt to millennials or whomever.

Jason Dorsey: And it’s important that we think about adapting to them, but we have to do it in the context of not turning off the other generations.

Jason Dorsey: Because we still need all of them they’re all incredibly important.

Jason Dorsey: So when we think about strategies and tactics it’s, what are the things that you can add or do differently generally that are low cost or no cost.

Jason Dorsey: That not only bring out the best to gen Z but also the other generations go wow this is pretty great I want that too.

Jason Dorsey: So as an example that text message onboarding it turns out that lots of generations, like the idea that they can go to that whole process from their mobile device wherever they are, at any time.

Jason Dorsey: Nobody would have guessed that but it turns out.

Jason Dorsey: Trends right now generational trends start with the youngest and interrupting up to the oldest it’s one of our big discoveries, so we think about what gen Z which you can do with gen Z now, these are all things that we see work with other generations to.

Jason Dorsey: The first when it comes to building trust and engagement and alignment, we find that frequency of communication is very important now, I want to.

Jason Dorsey: You know caveat this because there are certain people that are listening right now that just rolled their eyes and said oh great now we got a baby these people like whatever that is absolutely not the case, what we’re actually see as the opposite.

Jason Dorsey: Its frequency of information not amount of information, this is not a two hour annual review right Nobody wants that.

Jason Dorsey: What we find with gen Z is they want quick hit feedback that could be 10 1520 seconds a week, think of it like a text message or.

Jason Dorsey: Something a message on slack or an instant message or a quick video you film we find is the frequency is important, particularly in the time this pandemic in a hybrid work environment.

Jason Dorsey: If they don’t feel you’re talking to them, then they think they’re going to lose their job, and this is really key other generations, they didn’t think that way they thought hey if my boss isn’t talking to me we’re all good.

Jason Dorsey: But gen Z things the opposite, which is if i’m not hearing from my boss i’m probably going to get fired.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s an important distinction to make and then be able to think about that frequency that scales one message to all of them, or just as well as a message, one on one, so the key here is.

Jason Dorsey: Frequency is very, very important for them feeling engage the second thing that we hear, which again ties into your pillars that you do so well.

Jason Dorsey: As gen Z wants to be heard now interestingly it’s not the gen Z expects you to do what they say now, this is the key distinction.

Jason Dorsey: it’s not that they think that they show up and they have all the answers that’s not true, in fact, we see the opposite with gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: But gen Z wants to engage in the conversation be heard be part of that now again, you can use technology to do that, you can do morning huddles you can just make it safe and easy for them to ask a question.

Jason Dorsey: But jen’s ease entering the workforce at an older age than any previous generations in the workforce today.

Jason Dorsey: So they may be 19 or 20 but they may have no experience so they’re going to have questions.

Jason Dorsey: They want to make sure they know to ask, they want to know that they can be heard, so making it easy for them to do an outreach at safe and get a question, so they can say focus.

Jason Dorsey: works like match again everything I just shared cost 01 of my favorite ones, though, is right now we’re seeing which nz is to provide specific examples of the performance that you expect.

Jason Dorsey: And this is where you know, in your line of work sort of trust and communication really come together.

Jason Dorsey: And I see this all the time, because you know me I.

Jason Dorsey: Work with all these executives a sermon lots of corporate boards i’m really passionate about helping senior execs create the right culture and then making sure that cultures represented.

Jason Dorsey: From from the bottom up, rather than just the top down, which is what people try to do, and then it, you know doesn’t necessarily work, we want to make sure that people are on board.

Jason Dorsey: And one of the things we find is that communication varies and interpretation by generation.

Jason Dorsey: So if I said to somebody Okay, make sure you show for a meeting on time.

Jason Dorsey: Well, that can mean something very different based on generation, even though the person who said it was super clear or Jason make sure you deliver great customer service well if you’re in one generation great customer service might be chat.

Jason Dorsey: It might be a text message with an emoji and somebody else says will pick up the phone and call me or we need to meet face to face socially distance.

Jason Dorsey: So what we find is with gen Z as you create videos of the examples of what you want, so if you want customer service to look a certain way.

Jason Dorsey: make a 15 second video there’s tons of different programs that can do that, right now, that will enable you to message that out now before again people roll their eyes and go gosh Jason now we’ve got to coddle these people that is totally bunk.

Jason Dorsey: What i’m saying is when you talk with a different generation and you say something you think is really clear to you.

Jason Dorsey: they’re putting it through a filter and what comes out the other side may be may not be what you want, particularly true right now in a hybrid environment.

Jason Dorsey: And, as a result both of you are disappointed So what do you do, you make a video you make it one time, save you hours and hours and tons of times they learn faster and here’s the key that leaders want.

Jason Dorsey: You can then hold them accountable because you’ve shown them what success looks like.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s that’s magic right, I mean it just it’s such a big deal to give people a roadmap for success so they can then make sure and deliver on that.

Jason Dorsey: And then sort of the last piece, which is really into the weeds but I know you’re in the details which I love is that we’re finding that gen Z is coming of age, expecting faster access to the money they earn.

Jason Dorsey: This is one of those that I think is going to ripple up to the other generations again so it’s called earned wage access we talked about this a lot in this economy book gen Z is going to come of age.

Jason Dorsey: Having always been able to have access to the money they earned every day there’s all these different services that do it, we talked about in the book.

Jason Dorsey: And so, if your first job was working at a restaurant or in retail or anywhere, maybe you’re doing some gig economy job you finish that day you get a message and it says Jason.

Jason Dorsey: I saw you earn $54 and 12 cents day, would you like half your money astronaut, and you click yes, the money shows up instantly your account with no fees all the sudden.

Jason Dorsey: you’ve only known, the ability to get paid every day, when you need it.

Jason Dorsey: And I think that’s a big systemic shift that has huge implications across all the other generations, because what we find in our research is other generations ago well i’d like that, too, and I need it, that sounds great there’s no downside there’s no cost.

Jason Dorsey: Why waiting two weeks so it’s these sorts of things that gen Z will only know and then bring into the workforce and infuse themselves, which is incredibly exciting if you’re a generational researcher like we are.

David Horsager: love it so there’s two things i’m thinking about right now, you said something a little bit ago you know about culture and we talk a whole lot about driving high performing cultures on trust and in essence.

David Horsager: A lot of what you’re doing is that.

David Horsager: So how you said something about differentiating between top down and bottom up, how do you do it differently to create culture from the bottom and the top.

Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, so what we find is that when we work with senior execs and you know that’s typically who i’m working with.

Jason Dorsey: is getting them to sort of bring to life the culture for some of them it’s really easy for lots of them it’s really hard.

Jason Dorsey: Maybe the culture was established before they got there, maybe somebody picked whatever the statement was.

Jason Dorsey: Like there’s something there that seems to be a little bit of a divider a disconnect between who they are, and how they’re leading and what the company is viewed at in terms of culture that sort of DNA.

Jason Dorsey: So we work with them to really get clear on that process now you’re much better at that than I am i’m just bringing you a generational lens to it.

Jason Dorsey: But once we get them to get clear on what that is right that sort of culture piece of work, the trick then becomes, how do you message it in a way that other generations, all the way down to the front lines absolutely believe.

Jason Dorsey: That is sort of the secret that’s the magic and that’s what we’re really good at because it’s the messaging if you want to think about it’s like a.

Jason Dorsey: filter or we’re trying to help a message we know we want the message to be, but we know different generations are going to hear differently, even by the way, geographies genders, we go through a whole bunch of different things that we study, so one of the ways for example yeah.

David Horsager: Give us a quick example like just something quick like this generation takes it like this, this like this, this like this because we’ve got all these generations, the workplace, what would be an example, so we understand it.

Jason Dorsey: yeah so an example, might be, you know our culture is all about professionalism well.

Jason Dorsey: What in the world, does that mean, this is a sort of thing I hear all the time right.

Jason Dorsey: So if you take professionalism and you give two or three examples that each generation will understand, then all the sudden they go I got it right.

Jason Dorsey: Or if you write it in a way that doesn’t sound fake that’s better, but what we like to do is, we like to get them to put it into video, because what we know is video is the number one way to educate gen Z.

Jason Dorsey: Also, by the way, truth is millennials so putting it in a written word and posting it somewhere, making it your backdrop, whatever that doesn’t work.

Jason Dorsey: They want to see the video they want to see it come to life, and they want to see an embodied and so when we go all the way down to the front lines.

Jason Dorsey: What we find out is this, and this is really key for our type of culture work, which is when you go to the front lines, the most important and influential person of culture.

Jason Dorsey: Is what we call the local leader, and that is the person that the front lines interact with on a weekly basis and here’s basically how it looks a simple example.

Jason Dorsey: You probably saw all these executives say during this time of Kobe we’re all in this together.

Jason Dorsey: And if you’re a follower of our work, which I know you are I came out really hard against that and said that is totally not true.

Jason Dorsey: People say that it’s well intentioned if they mean well, but our research shows conclusively look we’ve done all these studies it’s all for free on our website.

Jason Dorsey: That every generation is having a different experience in the time of covert.

Jason Dorsey: At the same time geographies are different social economics are different when we go through a whole list so yes we’re all experiencing this at the same time, but the experience is very different.

Jason Dorsey: So, then, the executives go and they message out we’re going to do this we’re going to do that, we got you covered well, the first thing that local leader does has to do.

Jason Dorsey: Is they have to make sure that they truly believe and repeat what the executive just said.

Jason Dorsey: Because this is what we know happens, we see it all the time in our work that people on the front lines go to their boss, and say I saw it, you know Bob or Sally or you know, whoever said in their video they sent out to everybody, is it true.

Jason Dorsey: And that is the moment where the culture becomes real on the front lines.

Jason Dorsey: If those frontline managers do not ECHO it it’s not believed it doesn’t stick it’s just a talking head and we might as well just move on and so for me.

Jason Dorsey: The greatest way to test the culture is to talk to the frontline leaders and see if they are the backstop for what they believe to be true around that culture that’s what makes all the difference in the world.

David Horsager: let’s take a little pivot here because I think you would you would have some experience with this even though it’s not so much a generational issue but it surely is that today issue and that is.

David Horsager: You know, talking about accountability and leadership of all these different generations a big challenge today is remote and virtual.

David Horsager: How do we create.

David Horsager: accountability, how do and how do we create healthy culture and how do we, how do we do some of these things, how to in our case, how do we build trust.


Jason Dorsey: Yes, so yeah we’ve done a number of studies on this, we have lots of clients, because our sort of retainer work is exactly addressing this.

Jason Dorsey: And so I think it’s worth sharing that 99% of all companies were not prepared to end up in a remote or hybrid world.

Jason Dorsey: So anybody listening who’s going, yes, I totally get it you’re not alone, this is a completely normal, this is an experience of companies all sizes all levels are having.

Jason Dorsey: Now they have different levels of resources, different you know geographic breakdown certain things like that.

Jason Dorsey: and, frankly, in some of our clients are not really experiencing this as much if you work in a restaurant you’re still showing up if you’re a retail grocery are still showing up there’s elements that have become hybrid.

Jason Dorsey: But for many companies, this was a now a fully remote or at least mostly remote experience well, what do we know drives in your case trust, but also in our case alignment and performance and accountability.

Jason Dorsey: And I think the trick with accountability is accountability has a bad reputation, because often managers and leaders use it as a gotcha.

Jason Dorsey: Right it’s punitive high cost you, and when you come at it from that standpoint versus we all have a role to play in order to be successful.

Jason Dorsey: You automatically put people on the defensive and they go whoa I don’t want accountability, because what drives accountability.

Jason Dorsey: You know what’s the Court transparency if you don’t have transparency, you don’t have accountability, so now what we’ve seen is this big wide swath of.

Jason Dorsey: I want to know everything you’re doing there’s technology out there, right now, today, that takes pictures of employees every 30 seconds or every minute or whatever.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s supposed to you know build trust and create transparency and they say hey we know you’re picking your nose it’s Okay, we all pick our nose, we all want to photo of that but there’s that there’s the other extreme, which is.

Jason Dorsey: We just trust you to get it done we don’t care how you did it other than the fact that you did it based on the requirements we have We trust you and you’re going to deliver it to us.

Jason Dorsey: Now, the problem is somewhere in the middle right, so what we see is daily huddles and daily check ins are incredibly important primarily with small groups.

Jason Dorsey: there’s this idea that we need to have these daily check ins or meetings with large groups, once you get above about 20 people can slide into the background, I would even argue 10 but So the idea, there is.

Jason Dorsey: whenever you do, on your daily group to kick that off like in our case at our company, here we do one every morning it’s from 830 to 8:35am.

Jason Dorsey: And during that period of time we all get aligned, we all know what we’re going to do we let people know in our case, the one thing we’re going to absolutely get done today.

Jason Dorsey: And then they do another one later in the day that i’m, not even a part of because it’s a smaller group, and so the idea here is how do we create that cadence of alignment and credibility so accountability isn’t a gotcha.

Jason Dorsey: and part of that is, you have to let people raise their hand if they’re stuck on the way.

Jason Dorsey: And that’s important, especially in a hybrid nobody wants to be like oh i’m the weak link so, then what happens.

Jason Dorsey: They don’t raise their hand all of a sudden, you miss a deadline and you had no insight into it, so you want to make it safe for people to ask for help, not for them to do your job for you.

Jason Dorsey: But for them to be able to ask for help and say hey i’m stuck here can you take something off me, so I can really work on this today, so making it safe to raise their hand.

Jason Dorsey: And then I think you have to have spacing of those goals in such a way that people know their soul line.

Jason Dorsey: So, in most cases that’s a weekly goal or bi weekly I think monthly is way too on people can get lost in the weeds they can get sidetracked and so forth, and then, of course, those sheep flock to wherever they need to go.

Jason Dorsey: But the key thing here when we think about that accountability piece is you don’t want people to feel like they’re on an island and you’re just trying to catch them doing something wrong.

Jason Dorsey: It absolutely crushes culture it crushes performance.

Jason Dorsey: But you don’t want to micromanage so you want to make it safe for them to do the check ins let you know that they’re aligned.

Jason Dorsey: And then, if you use things like slack there’s tons of these different workforce collaboration.

Jason Dorsey: You know there’s ways to do this that’s also by a tech we just did a big study that looked at workforce collaboration in the US Europe and other countries.

Jason Dorsey: And what we found is, and this, I think, is really important people didn’t need the latest technology.

Jason Dorsey: This is very important, they did not need the latest technology in fact they didn’t really want it, they just wanted enough technology to be effective.

Jason Dorsey: And I think you have people out there all around the world right now going how am I am more effective.

Jason Dorsey: In terms of being able to deliver results, give me at least the minimum technology, I need to be successful, help me to create alignment, let me raise my hand as I go.

Jason Dorsey: And if something’s not working, let me be able to take some time to fix it or is that and say hey Can you help me, so I I think hybrid absolutely works.

Jason Dorsey: And we’ve proven that now there’s tons of companies, in fact, many companies, I work with like Jason we may never go back.

Jason Dorsey: And so there’s a whole hot debate there, we could spend an hour on but fundamentally, the idea is that we’ve got to make.

Jason Dorsey: hybrid work, and I think the way that people come at it and you know i’ve talked about this before a lot of people come at this and they go, you know this is terrible or it’s uncomfortable I don’t like it or people are in their pajamas or whatever.

Jason Dorsey: But the reality is I, like the other approach, which is how do we make this the best work experience, while this is experienced for having.

Jason Dorsey: Do we change it in a year people go back to sure that’s what works for you, but instead of approaching this as that’s.

Jason Dorsey: Terrible or it’s you know all these things are I don’t like it because I don’t like to be on video.

Jason Dorsey: Like just go the opposite, how do we make this as amazing as possible, so our employees are fired up so i’m leading and delivering results in a way that everybody’s coming with, and that means turn off the video and turn off the video.

Jason Dorsey: But focus on the outcome with them and you’ll see that people really rise to the challenge in this hybrid time.

David Horsager: I love it I love the idea, a friend of mine CEO of a great MED tech company said.

David Horsager: You know, in the in the war college he learned, he said something that has been helping him, he says that book of when I first went in the war college in the 1980s, they taught this.

David Horsager: When you find when you have volatility uncertainty complexity and ambiguity don’t spend all your time on things you can’t control but think of what can I control number one and number two what should I do first.

David Horsager: And that’s this time, what can you do hey, this is the environment we’re in quit talking about when it’s gonna come back or this or that but what can we do right now in this environment, and when you do that there’s a whole lot more than you thought at first right.

Jason Dorsey: Absolutely, and I want to say to that point, you know as you start to learn from your friend there is that you know.

Jason Dorsey: there’s a perception out there, that you got to be young to do well in this hybrid environment, but that is totally absolutely bunk.

Jason Dorsey: I work with baby boomers all the time, who frankly are better technology than I am, and if you’ve ever heard me speak at all these events always talk about boomers invented the technology.

Jason Dorsey: So that I think we have to step back from that’s where preconceived notion that just be a certain age to do well in this environment.

Jason Dorsey: Like we’re all learning in this period of time and let’s go and let people shine and do their best whether you’re 18 or 80 you can absolutely make it work it’s just choosing to him letting people give them the space to be able to rise to that challenge that I think is incredibly exciting.

David Horsager: Absolutely, you know it’s the trusted leader show, so we have a few quickfire quick lightning round questions for you, before we get there, though.

David Horsager: Where can we find out more about you will put all this in the show notes at trusted leader show.com trusted leader show.com we’ll put it all there where can we find the book where can we find out about what you’re doing at the Center for generational kinetics.

Jason Dorsey: yeah absolutely thanks for those interested in our research we do put lots of it on our website for free, and so you can just go to jenn HQ je n HQ COM.

Jason Dorsey: And click on state of gen Z and you can download the report see all the different studies we have multiple studies going, you can get them all, all totally for free, we just want to separate myth from truth.

Jason Dorsey: If you want information about me speaking or the type of advisory board work I do you can go to my own website, which is Jason dorsey calm J s O n D R es.

Jason Dorsey: calm and if you’re interested in the book it’s called Z economy how gen Z will change the future of business and what to do about it Dave actually helped me with the book title so shout out to Dave on that one.

David Horsager: I remember it.


Jason Dorsey: It was awesome day and you can get it on Amazon or wherever you choose to buy your books or listen to them and, yes, I actually did the audiobook.

Jason Dorsey: So you can listen to that too, which was really fun and way harder than it sounds so and the big news is on that I just want to share.

Jason Dorsey: I don’t know if people can see the video of they’ll be able to but behind me right here.

Jason Dorsey: Is our new copy from South Korea, we just got our first South Korean addition we’ve got Ukraine coming out and Brazil and Turkey and several other so.

Jason Dorsey: it’s been incredible to see how people have connected with the book and put it to you so thanks for letting me share all those days, I really appreciate.

David Horsager: it’s it’s just a wealth of information, this year Center is the absolute.

David Horsager: place to find the leading content and research and insights on generations, how they work together how to motivate inspire and create really high trust cultures.

David Horsager: And from a generational standpoint so it’s so excited to have you on we got some quickfire questions, right here a sentence or two each let’s get started.

David Horsager: we’re going to get personal here first you’re a you’re a leader, that I trust your friend that I trust, but let’s just take your leadership, because you’ve been leading a big team you’ve let it several companies you’re on several boards.

David Horsager: You lead, even in your home so what’s what you know what kind of habits personally a habits or routines he talked about you know, to lead others you gotta lead yourself it what’s something you do to lead yourself.

Jason Dorsey: I would say, the best thing I do as a habit is I journal almost every day, and I find that that taken that, in my case happens to be about half an hour to reflect on the day.

Jason Dorsey: always gives me a sense of clarity and often realizations that I just don’t get on you know zoom meetings all day and everything else, so that that sort of touched on, for me, is is journaling and i’ve done it since I was 18 years old, when I wrote my first book so.

David Horsager: it’s unbelievable how many great leaders have said that over the past several shows, as the routine it’s just amazing what what’s a favorite book or resource right now.

Jason Dorsey: i’m favorite book or resource right now candidate I got an advanced copy of yours, and I really loved it so thanks for that letting me read that that was super inspiring I would say.

Jason Dorsey: outside of that.

Jason Dorsey: Right now i’ve just been reading a bunch of sort of perspective books i’m reading the alchemist for probably the 58th time and I find that every time I read it it’s I still get something new, out of it so yeah I have a habit of reading books, I like.

Jason Dorsey: Because I find a different life stages, they bring something new and that’s certainly one of those and Center for me.

David Horsager: And all that will be in the show notes and great advice so what’s what’s something you’re learning right now just life personal, professional.

Jason Dorsey: yeah I would say the biggest thing i’m learning, which probably sounds really cheesy to others, but I think you may appreciate i’m learning how to be home.

Jason Dorsey: And so, for those not familiar with my speaking or work i’ve traveled more than 200 days a year often 250 or more, since I turned 19 years old and wrote my first book and so a month into the pandemic I had been home more.

Jason Dorsey: In a calendar year than I had since I was 19 and my wife and I we’ve been married now for almost 15 years.

Jason Dorsey: And we have a nine year old daughter named Ryan who’s loved my life and lots of about her in the book and so.

Jason Dorsey: Being home and learning how to be present at home with them is something i’ve really worked on, you know Denise and I, my wife, have always had a really great relationship.

Jason Dorsey: Ryan, I have really worked at that, and now it’s just been magical you know I.

Jason Dorsey: Take her to school and the weeks that she goes in person, which is every other week and then we have breakfast together and I cook dinner and just.

Jason Dorsey: You know, being present at home versus it being an event to be home it’s just been really magical for me and and it’s taken a while like for everybody.

Jason Dorsey: But, but it has been the greatest gift that’s come out of this sort of unintended consequence and I love it, and now that we’re doing all this retainer and advisory work where I get to stay home i’m i’m digging it and I think i’m going to do a lot more of a going for it so.

David Horsager: Absolutely.

David Horsager: Do you have a favorite APP or gadget right now.

Jason Dorsey: A favorite APP or gadget well, I would say my favorite thing right now is I just got a new iPhone and.

Jason Dorsey: And I absolutely love it and I would say my favorite gadget if somebody gets it is icloud I just love the idea that we can do so much of our work in the cloud right now.

Jason Dorsey: And the more that i’ve embraced that in our team has, I feel that the higher performing we are and we’re able to just.

Jason Dorsey: Not just do things and have them fall away on a computer, but really you know be accessible and searchable and I think for me what’s happened.

Jason Dorsey: Is it’s enabled me to keep better track of learning as I go and that’s whether that’s notes or some of these others I just I find it really exciting.

Jason Dorsey: to feel almost liberated from a physical device and and that’s something that i’ve really embraced and love so yeah really sort of leaning into that one because it’s it does just change so many things.

David Horsager: Absolutely favorite piece of advice.

Jason Dorsey: I think my favorite piece of advice, at least.

Jason Dorsey: That at least that’s been my favorite piece of advice, since I was 18 because that’s what I used to assign it in the books.

Jason Dorsey: Was that anything is possible if you believe in yourself, and I know that’s certainly been something that i’ve had to live, you know I started out wrote my first book slept on the floor for quite a long time nobody believed to me, in fact, that was designed and so.

Jason Dorsey: Right well I I slept in it on the floor of a garage apartment and many couches along the way, but yeah just trying to.

Jason Dorsey: Not homeless in the sense of homeless, but.

Jason Dorsey: You know, definitely started on the floor with me and a bunch of books and cut off, and it was the best thing that ever happened but, like any.

Jason Dorsey: Any journey, such as that there’s definitely those moments of doubt, and all those sort of things and going back to that you know anything is possible if you believe in yourself, you know I.

Jason Dorsey: Remember dreaming about being on a TV show and ended up on the.

Jason Dorsey: Show over and over again, or getting to travel outside the US that was a big deal for me and then getting go speak and all these countries around the world and.

Jason Dorsey: You know, writing a book this bestseller and then having a best selling book and all these sorts of things, I can still go back to those journal pages and really just believing in that even when when nobody else did, and I just think that has a powerful impact on people’s.

Jason Dorsey: Lives so.

David Horsager: One link one thing left for Jason dorsey in this life one thing lyft Jason wants to do.

Jason Dorsey: For me, I would like to live with my wife outside the US we really not right now, of course, but.

Jason Dorsey: At some point Denise and I would really love to spend some time living abroad we’ve traveled a lot internationally.

Jason Dorsey: You know, as I know you have and we really want to experience living somewhere outside the US for a little while and so we’re excited to try that out when the time is right, I have no idea if that’s been 10 years or whatever, but that’s something we’re really fired up to get to do.

Jason Dorsey: Great.

David Horsager: All these ideas, thoughts and recommendations will be at trusted leader show calm in the notes it’s the time for the last question, we ask it every time, this is a trusted leader show leader you trust and why.

Jason Dorsey: You know funny enough, I would say the LEADER I trust, and why is Denise my wife.

Jason Dorsey: And I know you made the joke about I lead at the House, I certainly try but Denise is is just shown her resilience and stability and integrity.

Jason Dorsey: Over and over and over again, and all kinds of situations she’s had to deal with in life, as you know, she was.

Jason Dorsey: You know, a teacher and then a principal and very difficult schools and then worked in lots of nonprofits and then founded for profit company and then you know continues to grow and.

Jason Dorsey: I just really love the fact that she can bring a sense of calmness and certainty and inclusion, which I think is really powerful for leaders to do right now and and it’s just you know.

Jason Dorsey: I don’t have some of the skills that she has, I mean she really has a very specific way of leading.

Jason Dorsey: In fact, she leads to Austin right now in this, as you can imagine, is a very difficult time to lead an organization like that meets in person, when you can.

Jason Dorsey: And just seeing how she navigates that is really an example to me, of how I want to continue to grow as a leader so she would be the one yeah sorry I didn’t have a big one, but that’s the one of the biggest impact on my life.

David Horsager: So Jason is you know he is the expert on generations, but he also is genuinely a.

David Horsager: dear friend you’ll notice in the new book coming out very soon trusted leader show he excuse me trusted leader book cut that out right he’s gonna clip that.

David Horsager: you’ll notice in the new book trusted leader that Jason is one of the very few people that the book is dedicated to because I really do trust them i’m grateful for you Jason i’m grateful for how you’ve made me better and.

David Horsager: So I just want to thank you for sure you and state and wisdom today, and thanks for being my friend.

Jason Dorsey: wow well that’s a that’s heavy what you just shared, thank you for that i’m very grateful, I had no idea that I was in your book, so thank you and the dedication is.

Jason Dorsey: wow Thank you Dave that means so much to me, so thank you and i’m grateful for you and all that you’ve taught me so thank you so much for for living by example, everything that you talked about which I think is very rare and a real gift to the world so thanks for having me on today.

David Horsager: Thank you, with that it’s been the trusted leader show, and until next time stay trusted.

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