Ep. 72: Tom Ziglar on How To Lead Your Team Through Immense Change

In this episode, David sits down with Tom Ziglar, CEO of Zig Ziglar Corporation, Author, and Speaker, to discuss how to lead your team through immense change.

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

Tom’s Bio:
Tom Ziglar has had the rare privilege of spending his entire life surrounded by world-class leaders, innovators, and motivators. Family dinner included the presence of the world’s TOP motivator, his father, Zig Ziglar. As a result, Tom’s arsenal of experience and information is absolutely unparalleled.

As CEO of Zig Ziglar Corporation, Tom Ziglar carries on the Ziglar philosophy: “You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want.” He has written two books, Choose to Win in 2019 and 10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times, published and released in December 2021. Both of these books expand the Ziglar branding and philosophy in personal development and leadership and provide the backbone for the most innovative coaching program in the world.

A more productive, fulfilling, and meaningful life is available to those willing to follow his easy-to-implement sequence of making one small choice at a time through the time-tested seven key areas: mental, spiritual, physical, family, financial, personal, and career.

Tom speaks around the world to billion-dollar companies, small business owners, and prestigious academic institutions, including Cambridge and Harvard. Leadership, business, and performance are among Tom’s favored topics.

The Ziglar brand is more relevant today than ever. Ziglar has exceeded five million likes on Facebook, and The Ziglar Show has become one of the top-ranked business podcasts. In 2020 Tom conducted over 300 webinars and podcasts and launched the Ziglar Coaching System, licensing and equipping over 150 coaches to teach the Choose To Win and See You At The Top programs. The world is hungry for inspiration, motivation, and hope. With Tom’s innovation, Ziglar has become the go-to resource!

Tom’s Links:
Website: https://www.ziglar.com/
“10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times” by Tom Ziglar: https://amzn.to/35jwD7y
LinkedIn (Tom’s): https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-ziglar/
LinkedIn (Company): https://www.linkedin.com/company/ziglar-inc/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ZigZiglar
Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheZigZiglar
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thezigziglar/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWd_FBG3nwrVVCP13AW1sNw

Key Quotes:
1. “You can’t mimic the leaders before you.”
2. “You can have everything in life you want if you’ll just help enough other people get what they want.” – Zig Ziglar
3. “When you solve problems you do well.”
4. “If standard of living is your goal quality of life almost never goes up. If quality of life is your goal your standard of living almost always goes up.” – Zig Ziglar
5. “The biggest challenge is a leadership mindset.”
6. “A top performer can work for anyone from anywhere.”
7. “If you want to build your business with top performers then you’re going to have to do things that attract top performers.”
8. “Coach leaders choreograph the dance between autonomy and authority.”
9. “Quality of life is now primary importance.”
10. “Quality of life equals quality of performance.”
11. “When you’re solid in your why then that gives you purpose and calmness and stability.”
12. “There’s a difference between short term confidence and long term confidence.”
13. “Long term confidence comes from learning and growth.”

Links Mentioned In The Episode:
“10 Leadership Virtues for Disruptive Times” by Tom Ziglar: https://amzn.to/35jwD7y
“The Trust Edge” by David Horsager: https://amzn.to/35EzEPM
“Choose To Win” by Tom Ziglar: https://amzn.to/3K6xyqz
“The Black Swan” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb: https://amzn.to/3CcqZ3e

Buy David’s NEWEST Book “Trusted Leader”: https://amzn.to/3luyqf1

David’s Links:
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Show Transcript

[david_horsager]: Welcome to the trusted leader Show. it’s David Horsager and I have a

[david_horsager]: special guest. He is

[david_horsager]: on his own amazing. He also happens to be the son of the world’s greatest

[david_horsager]: motivator. I grew up listening to ▁zig. ▁zigler, and I was transformed by

[david_horsager]: him. My parents listened. his positive compelling message that had takeaways

[david_horsager]: that have made me who I am. In many ways, I’m grateful for our pure

[david_horsager]: friendship. We do some similar, but very aligned, Uh, work in in different

[david_horsager]: parts of the world, But please welcome Tom Zigler, thanks for being here.

[tom_ziglar]: David, Gra, to be on. Thanks for having me A been a Fa of yours for a long time,

[tom_ziglar]: so I’m excited to be here with you today.

[david_horsager]: I’m grateful, very, very grateful, grateful you know for for you, It’s

[david_horsager]: certainly in your own right. I think I got to got to preread your your first

[david_horsager]: book and endorse it is full of nuggets and takeaways and inspiration. and

[david_horsager]: we’ going to talk a little bit today about your newest book, Twelve

[david_horsager]: Leadership Virtues for disruptive times Before we get there, Many know your

[david_horsager]: dad, Uh, some are younger, and maybe don’t know him as well, but also just

[david_horsager]: tell us a little bit about you. Uh, you know, what are some things people

[david_horsager]: don’t know about Tom? ▁ziggler,

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, so gosh, uh, going way back in time. Uh, when I got out of college, I

[tom_ziglar]: wanted to be a professional golfer

[tom_ziglar]: and so I started working at the company to support my golf habit.

[tom_ziglar]: So Dad, uh, of course, you know, he had this amazing company and I was in the

[tom_ziglar]: warehouse shipping uh audio cassette tapes and V. H. S,

[tom_ziglar]: and then moved over to production, and then realized that the people who play

[tom_ziglar]: professional golf are really good, and I wasn’t there yet

[tom_ziglar]: moved into sales and just loved it. It was kind of in thes. I guess, and you

[tom_ziglar]: know, just kind of got into sales andles leadership and been with the company

[tom_ziglar]: now

[tom_ziglar]: over thirty five

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[tom_ziglar]: years. Um

[tom_ziglar]: seems like, Seems like that seems like a

[tom_ziglar]: long time, doesn’t it?

[david_horsager]: How has it changed?

[tom_ziglar]: Oh, wow, it’s like. Um, everything’s the same and everything’s completely

[tom_ziglar]: different.

[tom_ziglar]: Dad passed away almost a little over nine years ago, and before that you know,

[tom_ziglar]: his speaking had wound down and everything. And so the way W. the you know, our

[tom_ziglar]: brand and what we were known for, Uh, wasn’t gonna

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: be the future. and well, our brand would be the same, but how we did business

[tom_ziglar]: would be different, because Dad, as you know, was a force of nature when he

[tom_ziglar]: would speak, you know, I think for thirty years over thirty events a year would

[tom_ziglar]: have more than twelve to fifteen thousand at each event. That’s that’s never

[tom_ziglar]: goingnna happen again, Right And so people would go. They’d be inspired. They’d

[tom_ziglar]: reach out. Hey, what else you know? How can we uh, bring this message into our

[tom_ziglar]: company And so the company built up around that well when you have a personality

[tom_ziglar]: driven business

[tom_ziglar]: and a leader like that. Uh, and they’re no longer on the stage right,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: They’re no longer doing it. Then you’ve gotta figure out. Okay, what are you

[tom_ziglar]: gonna do and David? Um, Dad told myself and my sister something that we didn’t

[tom_ziglar]: understand until he passed away,

[tom_ziglar]: and that was he said. You’re never gonna know true freedom until I’m gone.

[tom_ziglar]: You know what he meant by that is, we were there to support him to help his

[tom_ziglar]: message.

[tom_ziglar]: And so when you take when in leadership as you know, Uh, you can’t mimic the

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Hm,

[tom_ziglar]: leaders before you, because you’ve got different personality skills experiences.

[tom_ziglar]: You’ve got a. You’ve got to maximize who you are right. you’ve got to.

[tom_ziglar]: otherwise, people, you won’t be transparent, people.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: they won’t believe what you say because you’re trying to act like somebody

[tom_ziglar]: they won’t believe what you say because you’re trying to act like somebody

[tom_ziglar]: you’re not

[tom_ziglar]: you’re not

[tom_ziglar]: And so I had to dig in and figure out.

[tom_ziglar]: Okay, what do I love? What am I passion? About? What are my unique gifts? And

[tom_ziglar]: that’s what

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: Dad was saying, He saying, You’re really going to

[tom_ziglar]: understand

[tom_ziglar]: and and develop

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: your unique gifts when you’ figuring this out to grow it on your own merits,

[tom_ziglar]: rather than support what I built?

[david_horsager]: And now you’re doing licensing certification? Many things that we we do in

[david_horsager]: our own way. But you do have some amazing programs. We’re going to talk

[david_horsager]: about that a little bit later to go back to the beginning and what your

[david_horsager]: company was built on, even while your dad was around, ▁zig. ▁zigler, for

[david_horsager]: those that don’t know, and he was a force of nature, he impacted my life

[david_horsager]: greatly, and uh, of course he is the top front endorsement on my first Wall

[david_horsager]: Street Journal bestelling book, Uh, national, uh, the trust edge, and he,

[david_horsager]: uh, was kind and gracious and I remember the first time I got a meet with

[david_horsager]: him kind of so low in a restaurant in downtown Minneapolis, Minnesota, Um,

[david_horsager]: he and I, and uh, I think the first publisher and so just a really. Uh, I

[david_horsager]: maybe did meet him growing up with my parents going to different, um

[david_horsager]: seminars that he spoke at Are just listening. You felt like he knew him. but

[david_horsager]: uh, what a generous amazing man. And he lived by something that used to live

[david_horsager]: via. That is, you can have everything in life you want. If you’ll just help

[david_horsager]: enough other people get what they want. Give us a couple of thoughts on that

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, I mean that is the the ▁quote. When you go out and you say Hey, what’s

[tom_ziglar]: your favorite? ▁zigzler? ▁quote, Just go google it. You’ll see it like hundreds

[tom_ziglar]: of thousands of times out there, and it’s how we run our business.

[tom_ziglar]: You know you can have everything in life you want. If you help enough other

[tom_ziglar]: people get what they want. And when I talk about coach leadership, which is kind

[tom_ziglar]: of our word for the leader that’s needed in today’s age, Coach leaders

[tom_ziglar]: understand that they achieve their dreams by helping their people

[david_horsager]: Hm.

[tom_ziglar]: achieve their dreams

[tom_ziglar]: right. And it, And it’s it’s a. It’s a interesting thing because it’s very. I

[tom_ziglar]: think Dad borrowed it right out of out of God’s word, uh, out of scripture, and

[tom_ziglar]: and it resonates because it rings true,

[tom_ziglar]: And that is his primary motive. And when he was building the business and in

[tom_ziglar]: sales,

[tom_ziglar]: that’s what allowed him to be not only

[tom_ziglar]: an incredibly effective and influential salesperson, but also with the highest

[tom_ziglar]: moral and

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[tom_ziglar]: ethical standard, because his motive was to find out what they wanted what they

[tom_ziglar]: needed, and to solve that problem. And when you solve problems, uh,

[tom_ziglar]: you do well and there’s a lot of problems out there that

[david_horsager]: There,

[tom_ziglar]: need to be solved. And so

[tom_ziglar]: so that’s that’s where that ▁quote comes from. That’s the basis of everything we

[tom_ziglar]: do.

[david_horsager]: so today. in the newest book Ten leadership virtues for disruptive times

[david_horsager]: Were, we certainly have disruptive times and yet change has been around. I

[david_horsager]: mean, I think people could. we think it’s so unique and of course Corona

[david_horsager]: virus, and of course you know all these things. but you know what. There

[david_horsager]: were massive challenges when as an example this country was formed. There

[david_horsager]: were massive challenges in the you know mid eighteen hundreds. There were

[david_horsager]: massive challenges in the early nineteen hundreds. There there’s been other

[david_horsager]: pandemics and other. You know high change times and yet we. We do get

[david_horsager]: focused on our time. It’s certainly still disruptive. What. Let’s let’s talk

[david_horsager]: a little bit about the impetus for this book and then get into a couple

[david_horsager]: takeaways from it.

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, so uh, I was already when I wrote Choose to win. We had a two book

[tom_ziglar]: agreement with the publisher Thomas Nelson and I said. I don’t know what the

[tom_ziglar]: second book’s going to be, and they said That’s okay. You got a year to figure

[tom_ziglar]: it out, And

[tom_ziglar]: so at the end of two thousand, Uh nineteen, I’m starting to write the book and

[tom_ziglar]: then two thousand and twenty comes. Everything

[david_horsager]: Yes,

[tom_ziglar]: changes

[tom_ziglar]: and publishing timelines got delayed and I realz. wait a second. This book needs

[tom_ziglar]: to be about all the disruption, all the change. Everything that’s going on right

[tom_ziglar]: now and I just have this imaginary um

[tom_ziglar]: vision in my head. I mean, imagine, at the end of two thousand nineteen, Amazon

[tom_ziglar]: is sitting in their strategic Uh, sales and marketing meeting and they have this

[tom_ziglar]: goal to increase their market share of people over seventy by five percent over

[tom_ziglar]: the next ten years,

[tom_ziglar]: And then by April one they’ve increased it two hundred percent

[tom_ziglar]: right.

[david_horsager]: yep,

[tom_ziglar]: That’s that’s disruption. We all got sent home. Uh, life started changing,

[tom_ziglar]: and then something interesting happened and that was

[tom_ziglar]: on a large scale, and and you’ll hear people talk about it and seem to Le wrote

[tom_ziglar]: a book called The Black Swan And and what he did was He studied Uh world wars

[tom_ziglar]: and pandemics and financial crises

[tom_ziglar]: to see who does the best

[tom_ziglar]: in times of a Black Swan event like the Pandemic, And so I started digging into

[tom_ziglar]: that book

[tom_ziglar]: and the people who do the best are the ones who let go of the way it was,

[tom_ziglar]: and then they take a little bit. Of information from one view and then a little

[tom_ziglar]: bit of information from the other view, and then they go out and do life, and so

[tom_ziglar]: in the context of the day, the people who do the best they might get five or ten

[tom_ziglar]: minutes of liberal news and five or ten minutes of conservative news. and then

[tom_ziglar]: they go and do life,

[tom_ziglar]: and it allows them to have that balance to make good decisions. Well, what

[tom_ziglar]: happened when the pandemics sent everybody home and people they love started

[tom_ziglar]: getting sick, and family members may have passed away, and their job became

[tom_ziglar]: insecure.

[tom_ziglar]: Suddenly They wanted their life to matter, and to count, they wanted to do

[tom_ziglar]: something

[tom_ziglar]: that filled their soul.

[david_horsager]: hm,

[tom_ziglar]: They wanted to have a career or have a business.

[tom_ziglar]: That really made them feel like they were serving a higher cause or purpose than

[tom_ziglar]: who they are Now. Here’s what’s interesting, and I know you heard this from Dad

[tom_ziglar]: in the seventies. He had this ▁quote, that he would say often,

[tom_ziglar]: If standard of living is your goal. The quality of life almost never goes up.

[tom_ziglar]: If quality of life is your goal, your standard of living almost always goes up,

[tom_ziglar]: and literally as a nation, as in in a global.

[tom_ziglar]: That was the thought that went around people’s hearts and minds is. Wait a

[tom_ziglar]: second.

[tom_ziglar]: Why I am on this treadmill,

[tom_ziglar]: burning all this energy, you know, and everything centered around work.

[tom_ziglar]: When my, my, my physical and mental health, my family, my faith, friends, those

[tom_ziglar]: are all more important. and so that shift

[david_horsager]: mhm, Mhm.

[tom_ziglar]: happened

[tom_ziglar]: and people started making decisions in a different way and then productivity

[tom_ziglar]: went up. when people went home. There’s a hundred and twenty five million

[tom_ziglar]: workers in the United States. Sixty million of those jobs can be done from home.

[tom_ziglar]: That’s just the technology

[david_horsager]: Let let’s talk about that because there’s some things I really want to get

[david_horsager]: into around coach leaders and everything else, but productivity. There’s an

[david_horsager]: argument on both sides of that, Some people are more productive at home.

[david_horsager]: There is also a lot of new research saying they’re not more productive at

[david_horsager]: home in certain cases and ways. What what do you think about this? What? how

[david_horsager]: do we? How do we? And maybe the question is is just I’m going off the rails

[david_horsager]: a little bit from what we’re going to do. But how do you think people lead

[david_horsager]: well in a virtual environment too? How do we? How do we keep productivity

[david_horsager]: high? Because what I’m seeing is a lot of new data. Word’s not as high as

[david_horsager]: they expected just a few months ago. And I think it was for the first six

[david_horsager]: months. you know.

[tom_ziglar]: and it

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[tom_ziglar]: varies uh, and it varies by market segment. So if you’ve got kids at home, uh,

[tom_ziglar]: that interrupt the work flow. That’s a challenge. If you’re single and you use

[tom_ziglar]: the workforce as a major connector for your social scene, that can be a

[tom_ziglar]: challenge.

[tom_ziglar]: I think the biggest challenge though is a leadership mindset, Um,

[tom_ziglar]: the old style topped down. Do it because I said so, Command and Control leader

[tom_ziglar]: who likes to look at output rather than outcome, who, uh, doesn’t really dig

[tom_ziglar]: into what motivates and and, and and understands the dreams and goals of each

[tom_ziglar]: person on their team. That person, they might be okay in an office environment,

[tom_ziglar]: Leading.

[tom_ziglar]: they do not do well on a camera, Um. And so that’s a productivity challenge.

[tom_ziglar]: and then people who, uh, the people who are winning, Uh, people with

[tom_ziglar]: disabilities, people with energy issues, people who have a hard time commuting,

[tom_ziglar]: Uh, a lot of women. I think I read a statistic where three million women from

[tom_ziglar]: the pandemic went home and a huge percentage of ‘ are not going back to

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: the old job,

[tom_ziglar]: And the reason is is they got their life back and they figured out there are

[tom_ziglar]: other ways to make an income, And so there more. I think small businesses have

[tom_ziglar]: been started Uh in the last year by this group. Then it? I think in any time in

[tom_ziglar]: history I could be wrong on that, but I think I remember that. Uh, and it’s

[tom_ziglar]: because they see the balance in life of what’s going on, so it’s not without

[tom_ziglar]: challenge now. I think Gallopp just came out with a study that said The number’s

[tom_ziglar]: gonna be about thirty seven percent, So thirty seven percent in the shake out

[tom_ziglar]: are go to be working either remote or hybrid when this all shakes out. And so

[tom_ziglar]: here’s the question. Uh, I was. I was talking to a friend and and and he said,

[tom_ziglar]: Uh, gosh, you know, he sells technology and his friends, Uh testing equipment

[tom_ziglar]: for Siemens and he’s I said, How’s it going, and he said, Well, my friend’s

[tom_ziglar]: doing fantastic. He’s made more money in the last two years than he’s ever made,

[tom_ziglar]: and I go. What does he do And he goes well, his whole career. he’s traveled

[tom_ziglar]: three nights a week, a lot of overseas trip, full day, meetings and client

[tom_ziglar]: offices around this technology. He hasn’t been on one trip

[david_horsager]: Hey,

[tom_ziglar]: in two years

[tom_ziglar]: and I go. Really. he goes. Yeah, he spends half his time at the beach and and

[tom_ziglar]: his beach house and half his time in his main house

[tom_ziglar]: and he goes, he’s doing. He’s doing great and I go. Well, let me think about

[tom_ziglar]: this for a second. So what you’re saying is he gets to pick what he eats, and

[tom_ziglar]: when he eats he gets to determine his exercise schedule. He gets to spend his

[tom_ziglar]: time with those he values and loves the most, which is his family, and he can

[tom_ziglar]: have three meetings with three different clients on the same day, When it used

[tom_ziglar]: to take three days to have one meeting with one client. Well, dad, this is the

[tom_ziglar]: perfect scenario for somebody like that

[tom_ziglar]: And so here’s the reality is a top performer can work for anyone

[tom_ziglar]: from anywhere,

[tom_ziglar]: And so I think organizations have to understand that If if you want to build

[tom_ziglar]: your business with top performers

[tom_ziglar]: then you’re gonna have to do things that attract top performers.

[tom_ziglar]: Apple, Uh, at the middle of the summer, Uh, before this new wave hit, they sen

[tom_ziglar]: out a letter, And and it said to all the people who’ moved away from

[tom_ziglar]: headquarters. Hey, it’s time to come back. We want you to move back to to Uh,

[tom_ziglar]: California,

[tom_ziglar]: and the next day they got a letter signed by eighty saying we’re not coming back

[tom_ziglar]: And that just grew and grew.

[tom_ziglar]: And so I don’t know. What do you think? The number one brand in the world where

[tom_ziglar]: everybody in that field wants to work

[david_horsager]: hm,

[tom_ziglar]: for says Come backack and these people say No.

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[tom_ziglar]: What is that? What does that tell you? Is it for everybody? No, it’s not for

[tom_ziglar]: everybody. I think it’s eighty four. Ninety four percent of people want to work

[tom_ziglar]: a hybrid at least one or

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[tom_ziglar]: two days a week.

[tom_ziglar]: Who can,

[tom_ziglar]: And I think that’s where

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[tom_ziglar]: going to settle, but I think there are productivity issues.

[david_horsager]: So how do we lead in that H? What’s one thing we do because there is

[david_horsager]: research oning Connection Goes down. There is research saying. Uh, you know

[david_horsager]: what people? I mean to me, we have to focus leading Well, virtually we have

[david_horsager]: to make it really outcomes based like you’re paid for outcomes. That’s e,

[david_horsager]: relatively easy. but in some roles they might not have like the sales

[david_horsager]: outcome. And so how do we kind of you know Lead well, I mean, you still do

[david_horsager]: have people. all of a sudden. They’ve got three jobs that neith. None of

[david_horsager]: them know that the other that they have. These three jobs are getting

[david_horsager]: incomes from. You know, Um, because they’re just at home, kind of being able

[david_horsager]: to run all three. You know. so um it. it’s uh, having we know high trust

[david_horsager]: environments have a healthy form of accountability. Uh. you know, I guess

[david_horsager]: for leaders that’s still a challenge of Ha. Do you have any other how we

[david_horsager]: actually create healthy connection and accountability in a hybrid

[david_horsager]: environment?

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, so I have a a coach leadership model and it’s got six words on it and I

[tom_ziglar]: think you’ going to like the words. Uh, So in the middle, so this is the change.

[tom_ziglar]: Okay, this is what’ elevated. The two words in the middle are autonomy and

[tom_ziglar]: authority,

[tom_ziglar]: And so what’s happened is that people really wanty.

[tom_ziglar]: It gets construed is

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: flexibility. Uh, they want to work when they want how they want where they want.

[tom_ziglar]: Harvard Businessviw came out and said what people want is

[tom_ziglar]: they don’t want to be. They don’t want to be told. Uh, hey, yeah, we’re going to

[tom_ziglar]: work in the office Tuesday through Thursday. They want to be able to pick what

[tom_ziglar]: days they want in the office. Well now, on the other side, we’ve got authority

[tom_ziglar]: leaders managers and they gotta get the job done. They gotta get the project

[tom_ziglar]: done and they’ve got a team of people who have to work together with trust with

[tom_ziglar]: great communication in order to have it happen And so so it’s hurting cats. So

[tom_ziglar]: how can you give everybody autonomy and then have the authority do it? So on the

[tom_ziglar]: team members side, I’ve kind of made the two words for team members. They’re

[tom_ziglar]: purpose driven team members and pleasure driven team members,

[tom_ziglar]: purpose. Uh, these are the top performer. They’re there for a reason. They got a

[tom_ziglar]: bigger goal or dream. This is a stepping stone to where they want to go. Their

[tom_ziglar]: career is is thought out what they want to accomplish. They want to be a more

[tom_ziglar]: capable person tomorrow than they are today. The pleasure driven, Uh, and of

[tom_ziglar]: course everybody’s on a spectrum and we might be pleasure driven one day

[tom_ziglar]: and and purpose the next. I’m not saying that we’re stuck or we always act the

[tom_ziglar]: same. Uh. It’s ▁ziggler. we call them ▁zombies. Uh, Gallop calls them the

[tom_ziglar]: disengaged, So the new Gallop study came on on that.

[tom_ziglar]: Uh, thirty four percent of workers are engaged.

[tom_ziglar]: fifty percent are disengaged and sixteen percent are actively disengaged, and I

[tom_ziglar]: call the actively disengaged. They’re the biters. You know. That’s how that’s

[tom_ziglar]: how ▁zombies infect others right. They’re toxic, and so basically they make

[tom_ziglar]: decisions that suit their personal needs. They do as little work as as they have

[tom_ziglar]: to to keep their job on the leadership side. I think there’s two kinds of

[tom_ziglar]: leaders. There’s the accountability leader, and then there’s the control leader.

[tom_ziglar]: A control leader is do it because I said

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: so Delegate command and control. Very uh, results oriented. What have you done

[tom_ziglar]: for me lately? I, by symbol for them is the T Rex.

[tom_ziglar]: They got sharp teeth and

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: short arms right, They bite your head off. They le fear and short arms means

[tom_ziglar]: they keep everything close. The accountability leader

[tom_ziglar]: is what I call the coach leaders and I use A. An illustration from Dock Rivers

[tom_ziglar]: and Dock Rivers is one of the one of the great N, B. A coaches. And they, they

[tom_ziglar]: asked him, they said, How do you? How do you lead people who make more money

[tom_ziglar]: than you? And he said, Well, I just have a conversation with him and they said

[tom_ziglar]: What do you say? And he said, Well, I ask him, What are your goals for the year?

[tom_ziglar]: And of course, in the N. B, A you get A, you get a contract and your agent

[tom_ziglar]: negotiates it, And and you know, if you, whatever position you play, you get

[tom_ziglar]: bonuses on number of rebounds or number of points or minutes played. And if you

[tom_ziglar]: make the all star team, and he says, I just let him talk. I let him tell me what

[tom_ziglar]: their goals and dreams are, And then I ask him what it means to them. Like If

[tom_ziglar]: you get those, What what does that mean to you?

[tom_ziglar]: And then he said I ask him,

[tom_ziglar]: Is it okay if I hold you accountable

[tom_ziglar]: to your goals,

[tom_ziglar]: And so the ownership of the goal of the plan is on the player,

[tom_ziglar]: right, the the? the? He didn’t tell him what to do.

[tom_ziglar]: They told him what they wanted and then he co created a plane with them to

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: help him get it,

[tom_ziglar]: And so

[david_horsager]: One, it,

[tom_ziglar]: here’s the. here’s what I’m getting at

[tom_ziglar]: Is

[tom_ziglar]: we have automy and authority. What people want is autonomy and we’ve got

[tom_ziglar]: authority. So coach leaders choreograph the dance

[tom_ziglar]: between autonomy and authority. And so here’s a coach leader’s purpose.

[tom_ziglar]: It’s to equip support, encourage, develop

[tom_ziglar]: the top performer in such a way that they become. They co create a plan go, so

[tom_ziglar]: they become a better, more capable team member, top performer tomorrow than they

[tom_ziglar]: are today, for the sole purpose of giving them as much autonomy as possible.

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[tom_ziglar]: We want Navy seals on our team.

[tom_ziglar]: We, we want to say, here’s the mission. Go get it. How can I help? That’s what

[tom_ziglar]: we want to say now, top performers. this is really interesting. Top performers

[tom_ziglar]: realize when they have a coach leader and they’re grateful for it, and they will

[tom_ziglar]: literally go to the coach leader and they’ll say I’ve never had someone believe

[tom_ziglar]: more in me than I believe in myself.

[david_horsager]: how do you hire the? How do you hire

[tom_ziglar]: Please.

[david_horsager]: the top performer?

[tom_ziglar]: Well, you search ’em uh, as you can, but then you develop ’em

[tom_ziglar]: ’cause it’s it’s hard, right you? So When you, when you bring a new hire on,

[tom_ziglar]: your goal is that they will become a top performer, which means two. Th. There’s

[tom_ziglar]: two things you’re hoping on. They have the ingredients to become one and they

[tom_ziglar]: have the desire to become

[david_horsager]: Yep,

[tom_ziglar]: one.

[tom_ziglar]: Now remember what I said about ▁zombies.

[tom_ziglar]: What a ▁zombie. It’s somebody with the brain disease.

[tom_ziglar]: ▁zombies. Don’t care because they have no dreams,

[tom_ziglar]: And so what a coach leader does is taps in to that team member and says, What’s

[tom_ziglar]: your dream? What’s your goal? If you do Fantastic, do you want to make more

[tom_ziglar]: money this year?

[tom_ziglar]: Fantastic. I want to pay you more money. In order for that to happen,

[tom_ziglar]: your contribution to the profitability and growth of the business. The team,

[tom_ziglar]: whatever their role is,

[tom_ziglar]: has to, has to merit an increase in compensation.

[tom_ziglar]: How do you? What do you think? Do you want to put together a plan so you can

[tom_ziglar]: make more money?

[tom_ziglar]: So here’s a. There’s kind of a hot

[david_horsager]: okay,

[tom_ziglar]: topic right now.

[tom_ziglar]: I. i. i, uh, I have a d. E. I coach. You know, diversity, equity and inclusion,

[tom_ziglar]: And and I’m doing it because I’m following Dad. You know, Dad, when he would

[tom_ziglar]: speak,

[tom_ziglar]: he didn’t care,

[tom_ziglar]: Um,

[tom_ziglar]: what the audience brought into the room, right, He was never upset about them

[tom_ziglar]: being, you know, high school kids or seventy years old or salespeople, or or

[tom_ziglar]: technicians. right, All he wanted to know is how can I best communicate to this

[tom_ziglar]: group of people

[tom_ziglar]: so that they received the information and take action on and their life has

[tom_ziglar]: changed. He never held it against them. What their past experience was. Where

[tom_ziglar]: they came from. What profile they? He didn’t care. He only wanted to know. How

[tom_ziglar]: can I reach the people in the room?

[tom_ziglar]: And so? um, so that’s so. I’m like. I wanna reach everybody. It doesn’t matter

[tom_ziglar]: where you come from. And so uh, my coach. her name is Um. Michelle. She’s from

[tom_ziglar]: Puerto Rico. She grew up on the East Coast. She did corporate America. She’s our

[tom_ziglar]: age and she’s like. Well, how does a coach leader help somebody like me

[tom_ziglar]: and I said, What do you mean ’cause I need a context and she said, Well, when I

[tom_ziglar]: ended in the corporate world,

[tom_ziglar]: my culture was I would never volunteer for a project. I would never go into Uh,

[tom_ziglar]: the manager’s office and say I need a raise And the first time I went to New

[tom_ziglar]: York City, I was thinking I was twenty and we’re in Grand Central Station. I go

[tom_ziglar]: to the pizza place

[tom_ziglar]: and the pizza guy says What do you want and I hesitated, and the guy behind me

[tom_ziglar]: ordered right over my shoulder. And you know it’s and you when you’re from

[tom_ziglar]: Texas. That’s a culture

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[tom_ziglar]: shock, right. it’s not. it’s not right or wrong. it’s just the way it is.

[tom_ziglar]: And so she says, How would a coach leader help me? Because it took me years

[tom_ziglar]: to figure out how to stand up for myself. How to put myself in a position to get

[tom_ziglar]: that and I said,

[tom_ziglar]: Here thing, a coach leader never lets that happen, Because day one, when you

[tom_ziglar]: work for a coach leader, they meet with you one on one and they say, Why are you

[tom_ziglar]: here? What’s your goal? What’s your dream? Do you want to be making more money a

[tom_ziglar]: year from now? Do you want a promotion? What is it that you want And then when

[tom_ziglar]: they tell you, you say, why do you want it?

[tom_ziglar]: And you dig in into what’s the driver? What is it that gets them going?

[tom_ziglar]: Because here’s the reality. Every person on your team’s got a different

[tom_ziglar]: experience, a different background, a different set of limiting beliefs, a

[tom_ziglar]: different culture, a different perspective,

[tom_ziglar]: And when you get all those things out on the table and let them know that you

[tom_ziglar]: are on their side

[tom_ziglar]: and you’re gonna help them grow. You’re not going to create the plan. They’re

[tom_ziglar]: gonna create it with your guidance.

[tom_ziglar]: And so it’s real simple.

[tom_ziglar]: a great coaching question. What attitudes can you demonstrate that will help you

[tom_ziglar]: to be more effective in your job role?

[tom_ziglar]: Well, you ask different personality styles that, and they’re going to give you

[tom_ziglar]: different answers right ’cause it’s not one size. It’s all. if I’m in a very

[tom_ziglar]: out. You know if I’m a people person out, go and talk a lot. I’m probably going

[tom_ziglar]: to say. Well, I need to ask better questions and

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: listen.

[tom_ziglar]: you know somebody who’s ▁quiet is like. Well, I’m gonna have to raise my energy

[tom_ziglar]: level right, So it’s different for everybody. And so that’s that’s to me when W,

[tom_ziglar]: when a coach leader

[tom_ziglar]: gets involved and knows this,

[tom_ziglar]: they, they, they know, the goals and dreams of the people on their team. And

[tom_ziglar]: then here’s the other sea change that’s happened

[tom_ziglar]: since the pandemic, And that is, Quality of life.

[tom_ziglar]: is now primary importance in people’s thought process and decision making.

[tom_ziglar]: the number one issue in big business today. As far as their concerns, looking

[tom_ziglar]: down from H, r is the health and well of people, because if that suffers,

[tom_ziglar]: productivity and performance goes down

[tom_ziglar]: this great resignation that we’re in that I call the greatagination A burn

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: out

[tom_ziglar]: its short staff. It’s people doing. They don’t know when the day ends and the

[tom_ziglar]: day begins. This takes a. a. Reagining the way,

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[tom_ziglar]: do business

[tom_ziglar]: right, and leaders have to step up and fill the void, And that means Hey

[tom_ziglar]: how you doing

[tom_ziglar]: feel

[tom_ziglar]: And when somebody knows that you care about their quality of life as well as

[tom_ziglar]: their performance, and you do things proactively to increase their balance.

[tom_ziglar]: Successor, to make it more likely

[tom_ziglar]: their performance is going to go

[tom_ziglar]: upallity

[david_horsager]: What

[david_horsager]: Y

[david_horsager]: it

[tom_ziglar]: performance.

[tom_ziglar]: performance.

[david_horsager]: so? In the book and

[david_horsager]: we, we went right through a lot of great things here. We, in a touch on a

[david_horsager]: couple of things here, the coach leader, People can learn more about that in

[david_horsager]: the book which is ten leadership virtues, Four disruptive times, talk about

[david_horsager]: different virtes from kindness and selflessness, respect, humility. boy,

[david_horsager]: That’s critical today. isn’t it? Hum? what would happen if people would

[david_horsager]: humble themselves And speaking of, uh, bring incription into it. God opposes

[david_horsager]: the proud and we are seeing plenty opposition to the proud. In many ways,

[david_horsager]: self control. looking for the best On a touch on one. Let’s look at number

[david_horsager]: five for just like a one minute snippet of self control. Not many people are

[david_horsager]: ding self control. They’re thinking. What kind of

[david_horsager]: I? I just don’t see people thinking that way, And yet we know great leaders

[david_horsager]: actually are great at controlling their own wants and not uh, taking instant

[david_horsager]: gratification. We could say, tell me about that from your perspective.

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, so self control is actually, it’s recognized under different names today.

[tom_ziglar]: Uh, we recognize it on airplanes when people get into fights and get kicked off.

[david_horsager]: Oh,

[tom_ziglar]: Uh, I’m actually gonna be doing a a presentation up in up an Oregon to group

[tom_ziglar]: where self control is the big issue because their customer base, no matter what

[tom_ziglar]: they do, half of them get

[tom_ziglar]: upset.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: And so here’s the thing. This is the way self control feeds out.

[tom_ziglar]: The first thing you’ve gotta know is why do you do what you do? What’s the

[tom_ziglar]: bigger? Why?

[tom_ziglar]: When you’re solid in your why,

[tom_ziglar]: then that gives you purpose and calmness and stability. The second thing is this

[tom_ziglar]: when somebody overreacts in their response to you

[tom_ziglar]: ask yourself this question.

[tom_ziglar]: Would a secure person do that

[tom_ziglar]: and the answers? No, And so I’ve had to train my mind on this, and that is when

[tom_ziglar]: I’m speaking about something or working with somebody, a prospect, a client or

[tom_ziglar]: whatever the case. And they, they kinda go off the deep end.

[tom_ziglar]: I go. That’s not a secure person.

[tom_ziglar]: And let me just tell you the way you respond to someone when you make that

[tom_ziglar]: mental thought, that’s not a secure person. It’s totally different. They’re not

[tom_ziglar]: attacking you. they’re they’re burned out. They’re frustrated. something in

[tom_ziglar]: their life is going sideways, And so what does that allow you to do Is the

[tom_ziglar]: leader?

[tom_ziglar]: It allows you to be present in the situation without escalating it,

[tom_ziglar]: and to give a response that moves somebody a much higher likelihood in the right

[tom_ziglar]: direction, And that’s really what I was talking about,

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: Self control in the book Is leaders today, they get frustrated by

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[tom_ziglar]: the change, the disruption and they go off. They’re digging their own, whole,

[tom_ziglar]: people need stability and positivity.

[tom_ziglar]: And and there’s a difference between short term confidence and long term

[tom_ziglar]: confidence, And this is a big one for leaders. Short term confidence is results

[tom_ziglar]: oriented. What did you do for me yesterday? Well when your whole business cycle

[tom_ziglar]: changes because of supply change issues,

[tom_ziglar]: what did you do for me yesterday? If that’s where your confidence comes from,

[tom_ziglar]: it’s going to be a hard season, but

[tom_ziglar]: long term confidence comes from learning and growth. If you’ve developed a team

[tom_ziglar]: of people

[tom_ziglar]: who thrive on learning and growth, then disruption is your friend,

[tom_ziglar]: and it gives you an edge

[tom_ziglar]: because you look at disruption as an opportunity to serve more people to figure

[tom_ziglar]: out new ways to do it. Long term confidence comes from the humility of. I don’t

[tom_ziglar]: know the answer. I don’t have to know the answer. I know how to ask questions,

[tom_ziglar]: and I’ve got a team of learners and growers who know how to work together and

[tom_ziglar]: together we will get this done.

[david_horsager]: there’s so much more in the book Ten leadership Virtues for disruptive

[david_horsager]: times.

[david_horsager]: I would encourage everybody to go back to choose to win. and uh, the great

[david_horsager]: work there and all you’re doing at ▁zigler hey’ ▁zigler dot comt com. We

[david_horsager]: love your family, we love your dad and your mom and the red, as he would

[david_horsager]: say, and just grateful to call you friend. Anywhere else we can find you

[david_horsager]: the Web, or where can connect with you?

[tom_ziglar]: Yeah, Facebook, uh, the website and ▁zigler dot com. I’m on there and I do

[tom_ziglar]: something kind of weird. I give out my email, So Tom at ▁zigler dot com. So

[david_horsager]: Great, fill it up.

[tom_ziglar]: love it. thank you, sir.

[david_horsager]: Well, it has been a treat to have you on. We could talk for hours and I’m

[david_horsager]: just uh. yeah, grateful for you and your family. We always end with one

[david_horsager]: question on this show. The question is who is a leader you would trust And

[david_horsager]: why

[david_horsager]: or who is a leader you trust, And why?

[tom_ziglar]: Well, uh, you know. of course, dad, uh, and I don’t know if that’s a valid

[tom_ziglar]: answer be cause he’s he’s uh graduated. He’s gotten his, his, his, Uh, diploma,

[tom_ziglar]: uh,

[tom_ziglar]: but a leader I would trust is

[tom_ziglar]: someone who has a combination of

[tom_ziglar]: selflessness,

[tom_ziglar]: humility,

[tom_ziglar]: kindness,

[tom_ziglar]: and their motive is to understand

[tom_ziglar]: what it is in life that I need, and to be a conduit to

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[tom_ziglar]: help me get there.

[tom_ziglar]: That’s that’s who I trust. Um, and I work hard for those.

[david_horsager]: well said

[david_horsager]: well, thank you, Tom. thank you every for listening. This is Ben the trusted

[david_horsager]: Leader show until next time stay trusted.

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