David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I am here with another special guest, a friend of mine mark hunter the sales hunter he is one of the most influential.

David Horsager: Thought leaders in sales he’s author of this great book, you can see, I don’t dog ear and and put.

David Horsager: sticky notes and every book but it’s called a mind for sales he speaks all over the world, and in fact today we caught him in Toledo, Spain on your way back to Madrid working with the leadership team there so welcome mark hunter.

Mark Hunter: Thank you for having me on and, yes, it is Toledo, not Toledo.

David Horsager: that’s right you’re in Spain so and that’s famous, for we were talking about this before the show Tu.

David Horsager: Tu lado steel, which is the you know the top steel swords the Spanish swords are made right there I bend to the factory there, by the way, and and seeing.

David Horsager: That and seeing the the you know we have a sword in our home my my uncle and aunt bought us the you know for our marriage in fact we cut our wedding cake within you know, at least for the for the for the picture with that big Tu lado steel sword.

Mark Hunter: Well you’ll have to send me pictures, because I don’t have time to get there, so.

David Horsager: yeah right good, well, mark you know before I get into it here I think of you certainly as a huge thought leader in sales.

David Horsager: Huge in your wisdom, not in your stature, but you are a tall gentleman to.

David Horsager: let’s uh let’s before we get there just give us a little you know one minute what What do people not know about mark hunter that they should know.

Mark Hunter: Well, people always think that i’ve been in sales my whole life and, of course, if you read the book of mine for sales, you know that it wasn’t I did not want to get into sales, that was the last thing I wanted to do.

Mark Hunter: But I got into it only because I couldn’t afford car insurance because of my speeding tickets.

Mark Hunter: And that was the only reason I got into sales and i’m is not a success, I struggled so you know sales was not first nature to me by any means.

Mark Hunter: But you know what I learned over the years and I had a great corporate stint for 18 years and then i’ve been doing this for 20 i’m a little older than you just to say just and.

David Horsager: i’ve been doing this for 20 over 20.

Mark Hunter: wow that’s impressive that’s impressive and you know along the way it’s just been an absolute fun ride being able to meet with so many thousands of people 10s of hundreds of thousands, people.

Mark Hunter: all around the world and really helping them understand that sales sales and leadership or the same thing you know, to really think about a good salesperson a good leader what’s their jump tell influence and impact others to help other see and achieve what they didn’t think was possible.

David Horsager: yeah.

David Horsager: And yet, you make a differentiation with customer service and how services not sales.

Mark Hunter: Oh wow you did read the book you i’m going to give you props on it, yes, because customer service is just taking care of the customer.

Mark Hunter: What I want to do in sales is create incremental opportunities, you know what I like to say is, if you had a problem, not that you have a problem.

Mark Hunter: But if you had a problem and I had a solution, you would want me to reach out to me that’s what sales is all about sales is really helping people deal with their issues that they have to do it.

David Horsager: that’s great stuff well let’s get into this a little bit more i’m going to jump to the book a little bit, because I think people need to they can just go get their own mind for sales mark counter CSP right there.

David Horsager: But I want to touch on a little bit and see some things out of it and also just ask you some questions, I think the best place.

David Horsager: Right now, as you’re working with the leadership team there in Madrid and in Toledo let’s just talk about what are you doing for them, how do you actually help them think differently and perform differently, will give us some of what you’re giving them.

David Horsager: Well yeah we’re just not gonna pay for it.

Mark Hunter: Thanks okay I don’t think i’ve been paid by them yet either, so I better watch what I said no, he here’s whole thing.

Mark Hunter: At they’re looking to create some exponential growth we’re all coming out of this pandemic and it’s throwing a lot of business plans up in the air.

Mark Hunter: And they want to create some exponential growth, but what strategies what art Where do they want to go, we sat in a meeting yesterday and i’m not at liberty to reveal the name of the company, but.

Mark Hunter: hey they have too many opportunities, in other words gee we could put resources, here we could put resources there my whole focus and it’s going what I tell salespeople.

Mark Hunter: The most successful salespeople are the ones who are focused the most successful companies are the ones who are focused.

Mark Hunter: And what I told them I said Look, we got to get these distractions off your off the table off the plate, they may be good initiatives 234 or five years down the road, but right now, this is what you have to hone in on, because this is your core competency.

David Horsager: stay inside, how do you decide because i’ve seen people say, well, I guess we’re just as competent at this, and this, and this.

David Horsager: And yet clarity wins, how do you decide your framework for deciding where to go on a priority, or which to focus on.

Mark Hunter: Well sure there’s there’s really three things i’m looking at i’m looking at pat what what do the current customers say what are they say, not what they’re buying what are they say.

Mark Hunter: So i’m going to them for expertise to i’m looking at where the marketplace is going what’s the industry.

Mark Hunter: i’m going to reveal I mean there were seeing sectors of the industry skyrocketing and others into client, so you gotta figure out what and the third one is.

Mark Hunter: What are the capabilities, I have in the organization, right now, one of the things that I stress, with organizations is it’s not about rewriting the playbook it’s not Oh, we got to terminate everybody and no, no, no.

Mark Hunter: let’s work with our existing talent, where is our existing talent.

Mark Hunter: What do they excel at, and when I take those three things and meld them together that’s how we come up with a business plan and a sales strategy because that’s one of the big problems.

Mark Hunter: So many organizations, they come up with a business plan, but they have no sales strategy with how to implement or the sales.

David Horsager: What does a sales strategy look like whether i’m a you know girl scouts selling cookies or i’m a tech firm selling the newest to digital solution, what does a sales strategy look like in basic terms.

Mark Hunter: Well, in basic terms it’s not what you sell the outcomes you create what I want to understand is, what are the outcomes I create.

Mark Hunter: What are the, what are the outcomes that I can I can make a difference in people then i’m going to back up into.

Mark Hunter: The product or the service, whether it be girl scout cookies or SAS because if you think about Why do people buy girl scout cookies do they want them for the calories Oh, I mean, let me tell you.

Mark Hunter: The thin mints they’re still good they’ve been around for years I love them, but we buy them because we’re supporting.

Mark Hunter: we’re supporting an organization, we just it’s it’s the feel good thing and then we wind up buying more boxes.

Mark Hunter: and putting them in a freezer, why do we need them in our freezer know we just feel good it’s that emotional experience you know really girl scout they could sell those anything that we buy it we just happen to like their cookies.

David Horsager: that’s true, and then a cookie that’s an easy sell to you know.

Mark Hunter: It is see this is all thing it’s an easy, sell and this is all thing when you now place that that.

Mark Hunter: Small girl, you know I don’t know 910 1112 years of age who maybe you seen in the neighborhood and she comes up to your door and she says hey my girl scout troop is selling cookies well who’s gonna say no to that.

Mark Hunter: it’s not a question of whether or not you’re going to buy which how many boxes.

David Horsager: Well, no i’m just thinking, this is really based on relationship I just thought about this because I.

David Horsager: When a mom tries to sell me their daughters cookies I don’t want to buy.

David Horsager: When a when they put it on Facebook and somebody whoever.

David Horsager: said, my niece is selling girl scout cookies I don’t want to buy, but when that girl comes and then I want to buy right it’s because that’s relationship and you talk.

Mark Hunter: yeah it’s relationship and emotion and think about this, this is this is at the core of more sales than we ever realized, we like to stop and think that.

Mark Hunter: Oh B2B sales is it’s not emotional Oh, it is oh B2B sales is not relational Oh, it is everything you know I say that that trust is the currency of business you, you have a very similar line, yes, very firmly believe in that.

Mark Hunter: And what does that mean I can’t I can’t create any sale until i’ve created this level of trust mm hmm.

David Horsager: Absolutely, well, I will so let’s just take another step further before ask some other questions like okay i’ve got a sales i’ve got i’m really clear about the outcomes, you know that we offer and it’s here’s the benefits to that person.

David Horsager: let’s say we’re not we don’t have a big history it’s a new product how am I going to start to you know work my way in so least see these great benefits and how they’re better than everybody else and start to buy my special widget.

Mark Hunter: Well, this is where it comes back to i’m going to do any form of beta testing or whatever, to see what is the marketplace going to respond let’s not kid ourselves, nobody makes an investment, I mean, even going back to girl scout cookies.

Mark Hunter: gee you know it’s amazing when they come out with that new cookie yeah you want to buy it, but you you you sample one before you really say oh by.

Mark Hunter: Our case you know, whatever see so i’ve got to be able to find a way to sampling Now this is where so many organizations go wrong.

Mark Hunter: They take the gut feel of what they feel Oh, this is what the marketplace wants no, no, the marketplace has to tell you this from neutral sources, and this is where so many organizations get caught up I see senior management teams.

Mark Hunter: They they they talk themselves into a ladder, this is going to be the best solution, this is it and it’s all because nobody really has the guts to tell the CEO it’s a bad idea.

Mark Hunter: So what happens this idea, Germans and then they go out to the marketplace and it fails, is this, where I come back, I want to see what the marketplaces do.

Mark Hunter: And how does this fit into, and what I call the ideal customer profile ICP if I can’t understand who this fits who this is Taylor to.

Mark Hunter: i’m not going down that path, I don’t care what the organization is it could be, for it could be balling it could be any company, but everybody’s got an ICP the ideal customer profile of who i’m going to sell to.

Mark Hunter: that’s then which it come back and build a business strategy awesome.

David Horsager: love it well clearly you’re into you know, doing the research like just like you’re gonna you’re going to test this product.

David Horsager: And in fact i’m gonna jump in here to page 39 where you talk about you know people, whether they’re measuring the right things, or not you talk about measurements that matter or measurements that count in.

David Horsager: In sales just talking about a couple of those What would you start measuring as far as sales.

Mark Hunter: Well, this is all thing just because you can measure it doesn’t mean it’s worth measuring.

Mark Hunter: I mean a lot of people measure well how many sales calls, did you make, how many phone calls, did you make, I could care less i’m not into.

Mark Hunter: This is going to be a MIC drop i’m, not into the quantity i’m into quality.

Mark Hunter: What I want to measure is what is my speed with which I have a lead come in and I convert it to a customer what’s the speed, what are the number of interactions it’s going to take.

Mark Hunter: What is the percent of those are things i’m concerned about i’m not concerned because too many times what happens is and we see this throughout business we go and measure activity activity has nothing to do with real true productivity, I can be busy, and not do a thing.

David Horsager: Where we see that enough don’t we.

Mark Hunter: Well, we see that in every organization and and what this does is it creates this cloud and what happens is it begins to distort thinking.

Mark Hunter: I talk about a lot about that an organization has to be focused on two things are angie revenue producing or goal focused.

Mark Hunter: And right down to the individual if I wake up in the morning and what i’m doing is not creating a revenue or not helping me achieve my goals Why am I doing it.

Mark Hunter: And yet, when we start looking at organizations and reports that they crank out and systems they look at meetings they have.

Mark Hunter: what’s the meeting for what the meeting is to make management happy all is that really a meaningful goal does that produce revenue, no, so why we have in the meeting.

Mark Hunter: I mean, I could go on and on and on, but so many organizations really have created a process just built on what we did yesterday, and this is where the pandemic or cove it gives us an opportunity to really.

Mark Hunter: wipe the slate clean let’s start over let’s start over and let’s build it up from ground zero is this process even even worthwhile.

Mark Hunter: Is this operation even worth keeping should we keep this facility open, why are we running three ships, maybe we shouldn’t be running one ship.

Mark Hunter: wire we against overtime, maybe having a little bit of overtime would help us minimize the hiring of additional employees don’t know we have to be prepared to look outside the box.

David Horsager: Something I thought was really interesting and you get into it and Chapter 12 was some thoughts around discipline, I feel like in our busy world we have an enormous.

David Horsager: Just an enormous challenge with both focus and discipline and it kind of feeds into what you just said discipline doing the right things, can you just speak to that for our listeners for a moment.

Mark Hunter: Well, this whole thing squirrel squirrel what we get we get distracted so easy sales, people are number one on us, we get distracted and again this comes back to the discipline, I always use this argument.

Mark Hunter: Thinking about getting in shape is not getting in shape I can get a gym membership that doesn’t mean a shake I gotta go and do the repetition I got to go into the gym.

Mark Hunter: This is what discipline discipline is being focused, and this is the activity i’m going to do this is what i’m going to do it.

Mark Hunter: And i’m going to do it every day, you know the book atomic habits, you know came out about a year year and a half ago now.

Mark Hunter: Excellent book, because what is he talking about he’s talking about yes those little things done well, day in and day out month in month out that’s how you make a significant impact.

David Horsager: I love this great stuff great insights one more just thought from your perspective because it catches people off guard a little bit I think and.

David Horsager: We as as far as the book is concerned, and we might talk more about the book, but I think you say something about how social selling is neither social nor selling so you know in this world of social media this and are you doing that oh what What would you fill us in.

Mark Hunter: i’d lost a few friends over it okay i’m just saying just saying.

Mark Hunter: I lost a few friends, yes, because here’s the whole thing.

Mark Hunter: You cannot click and patch Okay, you cannot click and pitch.

Mark Hunter: The key word is social, I want to, I want to get to know you, I want to have a conversation with you so many people have taken their sales strategies and and just today, I mean i’m on linkedin every day.

Mark Hunter: And this is by the way, you’re building relationship you’re on every single day you put a video on linkedin.

Mark Hunter: Every single day I put a video out at six o’clock now I missed this morning and I missed yesterday morning Okay, I apologize i’m in Toledo okay.

Mark Hunter: Anyway, but yeah I put a short video on it here’s here’s what I find I get to three messages eight and all they’re doing is Oh, I look at you know you didn’t look at my profile, they want to sell me something they know hold it hold it.

Mark Hunter: let’s create the relationship first when we create the relation my objective is to take the online connection and turn it into the offline conversation.

Mark Hunter: Okay offline maybe it’s a zoom call maybe it’s teams, whatever but it’s it’s not in context of linkedin that’s what I want to do that’s a meaningful relationship.

David Horsager: Absolutely well One last word from the book from you, your favorite part or why you know one other insight that you would give people to.

David Horsager: You know i’m not just trying to entice people I think you should, but you know what’s one other favorite takeaway from your perspective that people have said that’s one reason that’s That was a takeaway for me from the book.

Mark Hunter: You know it’s funny i’ve never been asked that question before, so I give you props on it here’s the big takeaway that I say sales is not a profession sales is not a job sales is a lifestyle.

Mark Hunter: that’s the big takeaway I take from it, when I changed my attitude about sales and I used to view sales as customers were Bowling pins my objective is to just knock them down take their money, why.

Mark Hunter: that’s not the way to create a salesforce when you begin understanding that sales is a relationship.

Mark Hunter: And then you begin to realize that it really is a lifestyle you look at a top performing salesperson and they’re going to treat the barista in the same way, they do a custom they’re going to treat the person at the C store the same way, they treat a customer.

Mark Hunter: that’s living sales it’s focused first on you, the individual, I want to be able to understand you i’ve worked with CEOs many CEOs over the years and it’s amazing that the CEOs that have the enduring.

Mark Hunter: legacy relationships are the ones who do just that they create relationships that have become legacy.

Mark Hunter: Everybody because they take the time to get to know their team.

David Horsager: I like what you said, because in the book even talking about thinking about your essence thinking about yourself first like for you it’s not not in a selfish way, but in I got to do with me before i’m ever gonna.

Mark Hunter: Ships with them huge huge because, again, this is the ownership, this is the ownership and again you look at real leaders they know how to control themselves.

Mark Hunter: And again, this is one of the fallacies regarding sales and week companies is that they blame everything else they bought you know what, what are the excuse I always say is.

Mark Hunter: Why is their sales, why is their marketing well that’s so each one has someone to blame when they don’t make their numbers.

Mark Hunter: You know, and we don’t, we have to own it own up to it and there will be mistakes that happened there will be issues that come along.

Mark Hunter: But our objective and again this comes back to the whole piece of integrity and I say you know you how you sell how you prospect, and if you do this with integrity, you will get customers who have integrity it’s amazing how you reap what you sow.

David Horsager: yeah absolutely.

David Horsager: of interest what i’ve seen from you that.

David Horsager: You know this is noteworthy from what you said about two and a half minutes ago was just you are.

David Horsager: Big on partnerships i’ve seen you know you run a massive sales conference you partner with a mutual friend of ours, or a few friends, both in mastermind groups and also on.

David Horsager: The you know this weekly show that you do together you’re big on actually live in this House, I know some plenty of people in the trust world they talk about partnering and stuff but they’re like they’re you know it’s kind of funny because.

David Horsager: they’re not a partner, you anyway.

Mark Hunter: Well, I think about that what is an integrity is not done so integrity is done with others.

Mark Hunter: And yes, i’m a firm believer in creating partnerships i’m a firm believer in how can I help you, and this is, this is the whole thing that that I always say I want to create partnerships with one objective I want to help you.

Mark Hunter: Because a rising tide lifts all boats when I help you this goes back to Ziegler you help enough people achieve what they want to achieve and you’ll achieve what you to achieve.

Mark Hunter: It it’s amazing but that’s why i’m continuously trying to find partnerships trying to find ways to be able to to leverage and support and and build into.

Mark Hunter: Other people and in turn creates opportunities, the big conference I do, that is, that as a result, myself and three other individuals and we just decided to dream big and go back.

David Horsager: And it keeps getting bigger.

Mark Hunter: And bigger and bigger yeah.

David Horsager: it’s a big before we land the land, the plane let’s get personal for a little bit you know.

David Horsager: what’s happening now, what are you learning now a lot of people say what do you learn back then, in that research, what do you learn back when you’re writing the book, what are you learning these days.

Mark Hunter: I am learning a huge sense of humility and I really, really entered by my father in law’s going through some real health situations right now.

Mark Hunter: And it’s really causing me to really be much more humble about my own situation need to take care of myself and the need.

Mark Hunter: and the need to really show love and my wife and I we’ve had to make some critical decisions and and I told my wife, that will do whatever whatever you feel is best.

Mark Hunter: Because he’s your funnel and so i’ve had to learn and again this is one of those life is a journey life, every day we learned something new every day and i’m just continually amazed and here’s what I found the more humble, I am the better listener mm hmm.

Mark Hunter: The better listener, I am.

Mark Hunter: The more I hear the needs of the customer, the more I hear the needs of the customer, the better, I can serve them cheap.

Mark Hunter: i’m serving my wife and i’m helping my business hey that’s a perfect moment right.

Mark Hunter: But that’s really what life is all about yeah life is a journey it’s not it’s not a destination.

David Horsager: I don’t know if we can go anywhere up from there, but let’s keep trying that’s a that’s a.

David Horsager: that’s more more humility equals better listener equals better service.

Mark Hunter: yeah but you know it, but that’s what you do I mean I i’ve watched you for years, and you do.

Mark Hunter: This this was funny when this trip first came on my radar screen literally just a week ago and I had some things I had to move and so forth.

Mark Hunter: There was one person, I was not going to call, I was not going to call you because I had made a commitment to you.

Mark Hunter: And because of the integrity and who you are i’m going to figure out a way to make this happen so right now i’m in a hotel room with the camera literally on top of a table on top of the table on top of the garbage can but it’s working okay.

David Horsager: Work and I said you sound great and we’re even doing it in English so.

Mark Hunter: I don’t know Spanish.

Mark Hunter: See so yeah.

David Horsager: So you know, often what i’ve noticed is is leaders like you, that are you know.

David Horsager: Leading you’re you’re a thought leader around the world you’re sharing truth you’re writing you’re doing all these things they seem to have some routines that are helping them.

David Horsager: cells personally stay grounded and be better do you have routines faith family finances with your spouse your wife what what kind of routines.

David Horsager: Do you have that that keep you healthy physically emotionally mentally whatever.

Mark Hunter: yeah I mean I mean i’m up every morning at 430 and by about 440 i’m working out and i’m going for a run by five o’clock.

Mark Hunter: And i’m out of the shower dressed everything before six and then i’m able to spend time with my wife before she goes off to work I have my personal devotions my personal quiet time every morning, right after that.

Mark Hunter: And i’m not looking at email i’m not looking at at at anything i’m taking care of these critical issues first.

Mark Hunter: And then I can begin to Europe but see I can do that, for two reasons hey I just know that I just operate much better that way that’s how i’m grounded would be I prepared my day, the day before I know exactly what i’m going to do.

Mark Hunter: Tell me about so by.

David Horsager: Preparing the day before what’s that look.

Mark Hunter: yeah I mean I know exactly who i’m going to call what i’m going to call about I know all of my all the steps i’m going to see tomorrow begins today I.

Mark Hunter: preach that a lot tomorrow begins today so i’m going to make sure the idea is completely laid out, so I know, and this is all thing I don’t lay it out with 100% of the day, but.

Mark Hunter: I keep white space on my calendar I keep white space, because I want time to just be down, and I also make appointments with myself I tell you, the most important appointment, you can make appointments to yourself, because everybody needs that time just to step back.

Mark Hunter: and think and just stop and it’s amazing when I take that time to just stop and think it’s amazing how suddenly ideas that are rolling around my head suddenly they flush themselves out.

Mark Hunter: Suddenly that’s that’s that’s a great that’s a great something i’ve got to share with this CEO i’m going to share with this car or just be psl.

Mark Hunter: it’s those are the moments that I value the most because it allows me to create, and this is a whole thing as leaders are we paid to execute.

Mark Hunter: Or we paid to really create the next level we’re paid to create the next level, because as leaders if we’re not creating new leaders we’re not doing our job.

Mark Hunter: So I always ask myself, I tell us, and my team my team it’s funny i’ve got two of my team to the people who work for me are in college right now.

Mark Hunter: And they just started back in school both happen to be seniors.

Mark Hunter: And I, and I asked the question hey hey how’s the your goal and I check in with them every week, I want to know how your classes are going, how you doing.

Mark Hunter: But I want to know what are your goals, what are your goals post graduation, yes I want them to join the company full time.

Mark Hunter: But, whatever their goals are I said I want to help you succeed in whatever whatever it is, you want to do it was very interesting, but the other people my company they look at that and they go wow.

Mark Hunter: he’s willing to help somebody leave the company.

Mark Hunter: And what does that make them that they feel that much better, they say i’m glad i’m working with mark i’m glad I get that chance and that’s how you that’s how you demonstrate leadership.

David Horsager: I love it mark to everybody listening where can they find out more about you, your book all the great work you’re doing your big annual event where’s a good place to go.

Mark Hunter: Well, the best way to go, is to the website, the sales hunter calm and people always say what was your name before hunter know I have my dad to thank for that okay that’s that’s been my name since birth.

Mark Hunter: And it’s the sales hunter it’s not sales Center because, unfortunately, when I bought the domain name sales Center was was okay don’t get ads in front of a lot of market research went into that baby.

Mark Hunter: But that’s where you can find it yet and yeah i’m.

Mark Hunter: All over social media but here’s the whole thing yeah.

David Horsager: All that will be in the show notes just for everybody, looking.

David Horsager: tested leaders calm and also just go the sales hunter.com what were you gonna say.

Mark Hunter: Well, I was gonna say I want to give and get people always tell me mark you’re giving away so many things I said that’s fine, I want to keep giving because I can help one person.

Mark Hunter: achieve a little more success than i’ve done my job, you know, and if I do that to enough people don’t reach out my business is good i’m sitting i’m standing here in Toledo, Spain.

David Horsager: last question it’s the trusted leader show who is a leader you trust and why.

Mark Hunter: A great a trusted leader, that I really respect is my father and my father passed away 25 years ago.

Mark Hunter: But i’ll tell you what I look at his leadership he was a pastor for years, and he was in state government you’re in prison system for the state of Washington, for a number of years.

Mark Hunter: Then he was in civic he was he was an elected, but I watched him demonstrate integrity and demonstrate things just so clearly never wavered never wavering.

Mark Hunter: I still look back and I think he would be shocked and what i’ve been able to accomplish today.

Mark Hunter: But he is kind of my role model of a leader.

Mark Hunter: I hate to say it, I see too many leaders that people put up on a pedestal and then they do something really stupid.

Mark Hunter: and interesting should.

David Horsager: have that.

David Horsager: yeah.

Mark Hunter: it’s a treat yeah better.

David Horsager: Be your dad because you can you know watch it and you take things i’m grateful, certainly for my dad and leadership he has showed almost.

David Horsager: Two years old now and he’s selling it out so.

Mark Hunter: and see my father passed away way too young but I watched him right up to really the end and.

Mark Hunter: He lived a life of absolutely zero regrets continuously impacting people, this is the whole thing impacting people and it’s funny but I watched him impact people, to the detriment.

Mark Hunter: of our family finances, I mean he was always helping somebody out and whether it be time, whether it be money and I go wow.

Mark Hunter: that’s doing life right.

Mark Hunter: And I never I never saw an ounce I never saw a moment where he regretted what he was doing and I think this is the challenge because.

Mark Hunter: He had goals it tremendous aspirations tremendous did you achieve all know, but you know what he achieved what he was meant to be I mean again it’s just life was built around faith and and I massively respect import.

David Horsager: Excellent well mark, thank you for joining, even from Spain it’s time for you to have some dinner everybody out there, big shout out to mark hunter thanks for being here and to all of you, thanks for joining us on the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.