David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a very special guest, I say that almost every time, but if if I was thinking of a.

David Horsager: client and a friend, that I would want to be like I mean this next guest is just someone I he’s what we say the same onstage and offstage.

David Horsager: He is authentic and he wrote the book the gift of struggle he’s founder and CEO of a great organization, the populace group, and he has created an amazing culture there, and yet just a humble brilliant kind i’m just i’m just i’m grateful you’re here thanks for being with us Bobby Herrera.

Bobby: That God bless you David what kind words, I feel the same, I feel the same, I was really looking forward to seeing you today.

David Horsager: yeah I i’m just grateful and, and this is going to be fun and people are going to get a lot out of our time together to because you’re here so.

David Horsager: Bobby grew up 13 kids in his family and grew up with not much financially in fact didn’t feel like you, could you could.

David Horsager: You know even afford to buy meals, when your sports team was.

David Horsager: out and all those kind of things, but you got a moment I think it’s interesting for people, I want to recommend it everybody i’ll see it in the show notes.

David Horsager: there’s other ways to connect with Bobby if you want to work in an amazing culture, you know consider populace group if they have space, but I think.

David Horsager: I think the book the gift of struggle, you know we we avoid struggle and I want to talk about that book overall but let’s go back to that moment when you’re 17 years old and and just share that kind of seemed to give some meaning and mission to life.

Bobby: marker moment for me, David.

Bobby: yeah I was a kid there was introduced to struggle from day one i’m one of 11 I still eat with my elbows on the table, I will steal your bacon from you in a fraction of a second.

Bobby: But to this moment.

Bobby: I was 17 and my brother and I were on a return trip home from a basketball game.

Bobby: And along the way we stopped for dinner.

Bobby: And when we stopped everyone and loaded off the bus, except for my brother and I, you know at that point in my family story we didn’t have the means to play sports and have for dinner and it’s just the way things were.

Bobby: Well, a few moments, after the team and loaded one of the dads are the other players steps on worth of us.

Bobby: And he teased me a little bit because that had outscored me that night and then he said something to me, David that i’ll always remember.

Bobby: Bobby would make me very happy if you would allow me to buy you and at dinner, so you can join the rest of the team, nobody else has to know all you have to do to thank me is do the same thing for another great kid like you in the future.

Bobby: And i’ll always remember how I felt in that moment, because you know i’m 17 I had no idea what I want to do with my life I just know that I wanted my future to look different than my past, and I remember stepping off the bus that evening David and.

Bobby: All I had in front of me was a desire to you know raise my hand and join the army, which I eventually did, but other than that I had no no clue what I wanted to do and.

Bobby: But I do remember very vividly that night that although I didn’t know what I wanted to do I knew why.

Bobby: I wanted to figure out a way to create something that would allow me to pay forward that kind back to other kids like me who were born on the wrong side of the opportunity divine and it was a transformative moment for me.

Bobby: A compassion, the humility that this dad that stepped on board the bus demonstrated for me.

Bobby: Just changed my outlook on so many things, and it really gave me hope that I desperately needed at that point my life and it just helped me rethink my story and reframe my story and that led to many other wonderful.

Bobby: opportunities to just become the person that I wanted to, and that obviously that’s a question the journey we’re all on but.

Bobby: i’ll never forget that, even if it changed my life forever.

David Horsager: you’ve been on a journey that’s been amazing now leader of a great organization and you know dad to some amazing kids and your your your relationship with your wife rosalynn and I just this who you are I just um.

David Horsager: I think there’s some just greatness there we’re going to come around to.

David Horsager: Those three questions you asked in the book, but I wanted to what else, what kind of led to writing the book.

Bobby: yeah you know it wasn’t on my list.

Bobby: You know I I I sat next to really smart guys like you to get through college David, so I wasn’t yeah I was a you know more of a storyteller than a writer, and you know through some encouragement.

Bobby: You know I did a lot of storytelling for kids you know I call them my fellow underdogs and.

Bobby: veteran entrepreneurs and so forth, and through that journey.

Bobby: I kept getting some knowledge of encouragements like hey you have to put some of these stories in a book, you know you have to put some of these simple principles and leadership lessons in a book and.

Bobby: You know I finally decided to do it, and when I when I finally did I I just had a couple of very simple objectives for its number one I wrote it to give you know I want to write the book that I wish someone would have written for me and to.

Bobby: have always had a real simple mantra when I tell a story is like I call it just one That said, if it helps just one person take better control of their story it’s a massive success and.

Bobby: i’ve been blessed that i’ve been able to do both of those with that and.

Bobby: It was part of that journey encouragement from really good people that said hey you, you need to share this story and i’m really happy that I did now, but I was pretty reluctant for a while.

David Horsager: yeah.

Bobby: yeah because I, you know i’m a i’m a you know pretty you know behind the scenes kind of guy I live in a farm and you and i’ve talked a lot about that I, I prefer to stay in the background.

David Horsager: yeah and yet you’re leaving I think I want to talk about leadership in your culture at populace group and some of that but.

David Horsager: Before I do I want to go a little deeper on the book.

David Horsager: want to just touch on three of the key questions and you just respond to them just kind of give a little life to them from maybe you know, the first one is who are you becoming.

yeah.

Bobby: You know I.

Bobby: I love the mountains and i’m passionate about in the mountains, and I believe that every single one of us, and so I use it as a metaphor, and many things, I have a cold claiming thing with my culture.

Bobby: And you know, I believe that we’re all climbing our own mountain like there’s a place that we imagine that looks and feels better than where we are today.

Bobby: and

Bobby: We all share basic desires to stand out to fit in and to be a part of something bigger than ourselves and that’s part of that climb that we’re on and.

Bobby: You know, asking ourselves that simple question who am I becoming and you know self assessing that consistently and simply, I believe, is profound because you know leadership obviously starts with that goodness that we all have inside We just have to dig for it.

David Horsager: mm hmm.

David Horsager: So that so who are we becoming we’re going to consider that your second question is what’s the invisible force that drives us.

Bobby: Right yeah that’s the.

Bobby: yeah that’s the bus story, for me, you know that moment on the bus.

Bobby: One of the reasons, people often ask me why I had such a profound impact on me and there was an interesting backstory you know the gentleman that stepped on board the bus, he was a very successful businessman and community.

Bobby: And the narrative that I told myself at the time, David was it, you know people like him, they don’t see kids like me.

Bobby: And with one kind act not only did he teach me that I was wrong, but he taught me that one of the single most important parts of leadership is seeing and encouraging potential.

Bobby: And so that moment became my invisible force it helped me understand that someday I could check what I call the ultimate box, and that is where my story matter.

Bobby: And I believe we all have a own version of a bus story inside of us a moment that help give us that.

Bobby: That hope that yes, someday my story could matter to you have to dig for it, though, so.

David Horsager: i’m number three I could pause on each of these and be moved and thinking of my own i’m processing, as I have before with your work, but am I, giving more than i’m taking what a counter cultural perspective on.

Bobby: yeah yeah it, you know it.

Bobby: yeah i’ve.

Bobby: I think probably the best way to describe, that is, you know i’m going to borrow quote from a gentleman, whose work i’ve studied quite a bit is a Jesuit priest named Anthony de Mello.

Bobby: very, very wise, you know spiritual and.

Bobby: teacher of of just good principles and.

Bobby: You know he has a metaphor that he uses, you know, every day, the sun comes out and it shines and not once does a son ever say to the earth you owe me.

Bobby: It just gives and I believe that one of the single most important characteristics and leadership, and this applies to fatherhood, the friendship.

Bobby: is just giving more than you take you know, because you know when you truly give you don’t wait for a third act, you know you give the person receives.

Bobby: and too often I believe you know we wait for a third act we keep a scorecard or we want something in return.

Bobby: But that’s not really giving you know our cup should be full by shining and just knowing that in giving there are two acts giving and receiving and when you learn to eliminate that third act I think that’s when you’re really living and appreciating the power of giving.

David Horsager: I love that in life, it makes some sense, how do you do that in business i’m you get you guys create this great product you get paid for it, you.

David Horsager: write you have certain relationships you’re trying to sell and you’ve got an amazing sales team.

Bobby: They have to get.

David Horsager: Sales like, how do we, how do we live that out in the business world.

Bobby: yeah great question you know it’s counterintuitive to.

Bobby: You know, some of these important roles in the ecosystem of an organization.

Bobby: You know what i’ve encouraged my like my salesforce you might VP of sales gentleman named frank de Castro he’s extraordinary at this, you know, I think.

Bobby: When you when you give from a place of helping others and you give from a place of your compassion your you know your second pillar of trust, where you truly see others and you really want to help them solve their problem, the returns going to come, like I believe people genuinely.

Bobby: When they receive that triggers a relationship where they and they to want to return it in their own way, and so, if you give at least with that mindset and with that heartfelt approach.

Bobby: you’re going to be able to get the return that you’re looking for, but you also got to be able to keep the equation I call it keep it unbalanced.

Bobby: Get and that’s why you know when I send off my emails I do give greater than take right you’re going to take, but just make sure that it’s always unbalanced and you do that.

Bobby: it’s funny it works out you end up getting a premium for your work, you know people appreciate that a great deal.

Bobby: And I believe they show it in the way you know, like.

Bobby: Like we we all love great service and we’re willing to pay for great service, so you know we do it in our own buyer behavior but it’s more of a mindset than it is a.

Bobby: formula.

yeah.

David Horsager: So you’ve been you know I do want to get to your culture of your company because i’m so thrilled about that, and some of the things you’ve been able to do, but I do want to ask you this question.

David Horsager: You know, it seemed like.

David Horsager: At least the leaders I walk next to and what get to walk with because of some of the things we’re doing.

David Horsager: they’re leading themselves well there have some routines they have habits personally.

David Horsager: What what what are you willing to share on habits that you have personally to be the leader, you can be.

Bobby: yeah a great question i’m very open about about some of these habits and I do them in perfectly, but I also do my best to try to do them consistently.

Bobby: You know i’m a i’m a routines guy think that started getting wired early on, is a migrant farm worker getting up early and working and then the army embedded that in the be deeply.

Bobby: But I always start my day fueling what my spiritual pillar, so I try to live my life on four pillars my spiritual pillar.

Bobby: My emotional pillar.

Bobby: My intellectual pillar and my physical pillar, and you know, even if you were to look on my my board here next to me I have those four in a box and I have a few simple things that I do underneath each of them.

Bobby: You know I like I start my day with you know the good book and i’ll read a couple of scriptures and i’ll meditate on them.

Bobby: And i’m big into neuro theology, you know I believe 12 minutes of prayer day and it’s been proven can help rewire your brain, so I need that, and so I always start my day there and then i’ll start my day with after that i’ll go to.

Bobby: What I called the you know emotional pillar fuel and i’ll read like this morning, I actually read some stuff on Anthony de Mello.

Bobby: And then i’ll read and then i’ll pick up after that and i’m like okay well, let me challenge, so my thinking and i’ll read something that fuels my intellectual pillar and then after I do, that I follow it with a you know a good hard workout and you know I start my days really early David.

Bobby: i’m the only guy in the House and everybody else sleeps in, and you know, by the time everyone else wakes up I have all four of those boxes checked and then I can just be silly dad the rest of the day, or you know do do my service to populace group.

David Horsager: what’s your what is it give us the time frame, when you normally get up.

Bobby: I usually wake up a about you know in between 445 and 530 is like that’s the way my body works i’m.

David Horsager: You know.

Bobby: yeah it’s i’m up i’m ready to go and.

Bobby: But on the flip side of it once you know 9pm rolls around i’m a slough.

Bobby: yeah.

Bobby: i’m just.

Bobby: i’m just worthless.

yep.

David Horsager: that’s that’s that’s I have the i’m morning more I food.

David Horsager: Are you yeah so so you know this is great, how do you.

David Horsager: what’s a way I promise everybody i’m going to get to the company leadership stuff but that wasn’t something here, because your family so great, what are you doing to lead your kids well.

Bobby: yeah great question you know what a humbling leadership journey fatherhood, yes right, and you know talk a lot offline about that.

Bobby: You don’t want to have what i’ve learned about.

Bobby: My kids you know my dad had a saying in Spanish yeah I was, I was number 11 to 13 and I thought I was born with a single mission try to figure out some type of mischief that your parents haven’t seen before, and that’s pretty hard as number 11.

Bobby: And my dad saying in Spanish was he’d say ECO, it is a boss at us.

Bobby: Which means a son, you are a dad you’ll be you’re going to get yours, and so you know my three little Mexican Vikings a my coconuts.

Bobby: First and foremost, I try to be a spiritual leader for them, and you know model for them yeah we’re big on using the.

Bobby: You know the fruits of the spirit to guide our behavior you know and so when we you know show up or I show up or they show up in a way that.

Bobby: isn’t them i’ll often ask them about hey you know buddy you know what what fruit of the spirit, can I help you there and they’ll say dad you know patients or dad you know.

Bobby: kindness, you know and so i’ll use those those those those fruits of the spirit, so his attributes of Jesus his personality, you know love joy peace patience kindness goodness.

Bobby: gentleness faithfulness and self control and i’ll use that as a parameter, but I try to do it in a way to where I don’t force it on them, because I also don’t want them to feel like i’m.

Bobby: Imposing my spiritual beliefs on them, but at the same time allowing it to be a guide so that they can self assess because.

Bobby: You know my responsibilities are dad I tell them all the time, you know i’ll ask him hey Daddy you know, a buddy what’s what’s that dad’s job.

Bobby: And they’ll say to prepare me for the path, not to prepare the path for me while you’re right, you know, and you know that comes from our passion for the mountains, that we share.

Bobby: It because I get them out in the mountains, a lot matter of fact we’re leaving later this tonight to go to the mountains in California, so I get them out in the mountains and that’s where we teach each other.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: So let’s jump the populus group you’ve created quite a culture there and you’ve certainly been intentional about it, we met, because I was speaking at an event for a big.

David Horsager: Medical company and you were there and Presidents of our other I guess you could say MED tech companies and medical companies.

David Horsager: medical device companies were there, but tell us, just a quick of what you do and then I really want to get into culture, mostly but.

David Horsager: At populus group and then we’ll we’ll talk about it.

Bobby: yeah sure you know pop the script Latin for people, you know we’re a community of ego less passionate climbers building something bigger than ourselves and.

Bobby: You know the problem we solve for the world is you know we help organizations primarily large organizations mid to large.

Bobby: better manage their non permanent workforce, you know organizations have a pretty good grip on their full time permanent employees.

Bobby: But when it comes to their non permanent employees contractors for nationals independent contractors.

Bobby: it’s a big ball of yarn for with different rules and laws across state lines and they usually come to an organization like us and say hey help me untangle this this is confusing it’s frustrating me.

Bobby: We want to do it right and be compliant Can you help me, and so we helped him untangle that mess and do it better, faster, more efficiently and more economically.

David Horsager: So tell us you’ve built a culture, there you call your you could say some people would say employees you.

David Horsager: Call climbers and you use that a mountain climbing analogy throughout what you do even take them there’s an annual climb.

David Horsager: For your day but kind of how many people do you haven’t what are you doing these days intentionally to build.

David Horsager: This you called the culture code at populates group but tell us just a little bit about that.

Bobby: yeah you know.

Bobby: Culture is I mean defined in so many different ways, with my very simple definition is you know it’s like hey what is the personality.

Bobby: of our organization, what is the feeling that we want people to experience when they interact with us, and it needs to answer the question you know how do we behave and our culture code is centered around three primary pillars and the first one is we give more than we take.

Bobby: We speak from the heart.

Bobby: And we go off the beaten path.

Bobby: And all three of those pillars David we have stories that support the behavior that we want everyone in our Community to emulate.

Bobby: You know, for example, to give more than you take embedded in that is the bus story and everything we do to bring that to life, you know speak from the heart that in its purest essence is all about building trust it’s all about.

Bobby: Serving it’s all about telling the truth, being the people that that that we want to become, and you know third going off the beaten path.

Bobby: that’s really all about being a great listener and solving problems in a creative way and building enough trust within the Community, so that these climbers.

Bobby: can raise their hand and say hey we’ve been doing this wrong and we need to find a better way, I mean one of our core values is find a better way so.

Bobby: that’s at the essence of our culture and our culture code and you know we embed that deeply into all of the human systems and the routines and the symbols and the traditions that we have.

Bobby: And it’s taken me, you know will be 19 years old in September in September night, so you know, basically, I would say we graduated high school, by now, but we’re just a big 10th grader because we flunked at least three times in my first 10 years building a community.

David Horsager: Tell tell us in your Community how what are some traditions, you have for for building those.

Bobby: yeah you know you mentioned the.

Bobby: The annual trip.

Bobby: So every August i’ll take.

Bobby: A handpicked group of climbers, and these are climbers that are first and foremost, or they live in the Culture code and there they.

Bobby: me modeling our values for everyone else, and then they do those two, then we look at the results in the performance and they do i’ll take like six to mount rainier and we’ll make the climb up to Camp year it is an all day lesson packed journey.

Bobby: That create more stories that they come back and share.

Bobby: Another one is you know, every year, my version of the heisman I call it the Sherpa award you know, a Sherpa as a guide and.

Bobby: You know you can’t get up a mountain it’s hard to climb without a great Sherpa and so every year I will select one climber, and our whole community.

Bobby: That is lived our values and our culture code better than anyone, and I give them the Sherpa it’s our version of that heisman I give one a year and it’s not about performance it’s not a sales award.

Bobby: And I celebrate the heck out of them and we and then i’ll fly all of the sherpas, and the previous winners all the previous heisman winners per se to a location.

Bobby: A surprise location every every year in September and we’ll spend two days.

Bobby: Looking deep inside our culture and asking ourselves so a few simple questions, what are we doing well.

Bobby: What do we need to do better, what do we need to change and I give them the voice, and so I empower them to just be the voice of the Community.

Bobby: and tell me the good bad and the ugly along with the rest of my executive team and it gives them a sense of you know, being heard and and owning the culture and you do that, over a period of years and these traditions stick so i’m big on traditions and symbols and routines like that.

David Horsager: I like it.

Bobby: And you know, David I got i’m going to reach over and grab this.

Bobby: on day one, everybody gets one of these it’s a Caribbean or.

Bobby: and on it, it says choice.

Bobby: And so, one of the first lessons that climbers learn when they get selected for our Community is that hey we get to choose whether or not we asked for help, whether or not we choose to help whether or not we share our ideas, whether or not we.

Bobby: build trust, whether or not we extend trust all those important behaviors are embedded in our culture code, and so I expect climbers to take their Caribbean or to every meeting.

Bobby: Every call that they’re on as a reminder and the symbol that we climb is one, so I have these types of traditions and vernacular embedded in every part of our.

Bobby: Culture and it’s just kind of a quirky way that my mind works and i’ve just done that, from the beginning and.

Bobby: it’s been very, very effective for us.

David Horsager: I love it, you know many people listening we deal with obviously culture, all the time, some of the biggest companies in the world, trying to drive cultures of trust we believe performance goes up.

David Horsager: And is that it’s best when there’s a culture of trust, but I think some people have a lot, they could learn from how do we systemized how to make traditions, how do we make routines we talked about all the time you’ve got to have.

David Horsager: The seven big components to transform a culture and one of them is an ongoing reinforcement, there has to be a way we can’t be a one and done flavor the month we have to have a way to reinforce and I love what you’ve done.

Bobby: yeah.

David Horsager: With that is is is interesting, so I give you a credit often i’ve about Luca because you know we were talking, I think it was early on in the pandemic and and you, you talk about learning verruca i’m gonna i’ll jump in and share it because i’ll share my take on it.

David Horsager: And then you can give life to it.

David Horsager: But I remember you saying in the world college, you went to the word college in the 80s and you’ll learn we I think we’re touching base on.

David Horsager: Right after you read wrote a blog on everybody should go and we’re going to put this in the show notes Bobby dash herrera.com or you can go see more about Bobby Herrera, and the book.

David Horsager: The gift of struggle which everybody should get I don’t say that with every book I put on here i’ll tell you that, right now, and also um.

David Horsager: And I also read your blog you talked about how you learn, you know.

David Horsager: I, if I remember it right, you were saying you know kind of what was working for you in the pandemic and early on and you said well you learn this in the in the word college it voca.

David Horsager: V stands for volatility you stands for uncertainty C stands for complexity in a stands for ambiguity.

David Horsager: And, as I recall it, you talked about how you know times in uncertainty, we asked, especially kind of two groups of questions or two questions and.

David Horsager: Those that have done well it’s helped me in the pandemic of number one, what can I control and I and then.

David Horsager: By the way, I saw this with people, many people spend all their brain calories on things they could not control and didn’t think what they could, and secondly, in times of uncertainty or or time to.

David Horsager: Have those what should I do first.

David Horsager: And then prioritizing that made a big difference for me and i’ve just got to say your perspective on that made a big difference for a lot of those that we serve.

David Horsager: But is there anything you would like to add to that that’s my limited perspective on a conversation that changed my life and others that I coach and consult with but give us give us your maybe a little extended thoughts on buca.

yeah.

Bobby: You know, it was introduced into the army, the army war college in the 80s, I learned it in the late 80s just you know, because it was somewhat going viral when I was you know, during my time in service and.

Bobby: you’re basically book is a fancy acronym of saying hey when it hits the fan, people are going to panic and you know they have all these dynamics going on, and as a leader.

Bobby: your responsibility, in a sense, and this is what I did when the pandemic hit is like I need to slow the game down for my people.

Bobby: Because often our intuition, you know our our lizard brain takes over the amygdala takes over, and you, you intuitively want to go faster and so voca in a sense, in the leadership environment is, let me slow the game down, let me, let them breathe relax we got this, and so, by looking at.

Bobby: The things that we can control and helping people understand that Well, this is volatile, this is going to be very uncertain, this is no doubt going to get more complex, if you try to go out and get those answers on the outside.

Bobby: you’re going to lead people to panic more so instead it’s like no let’s look at us let’s look at ourselves what can we do, what can we do well and.

Bobby: What can we control and then let’s try to do them in the best order that we can.

Bobby: because sometimes you won’t know until later on whether or not you did it in the right order is trying to figure out the best order here and.

Bobby: Take a methodical responsible approach that’s hard to do when you know there’s enemy fire coming your way and that, in a sense, is the essence of it and it helped a lot and I managed the.

Bobby: temperament of the organization throughout the pandemic by using that quite a bit it’s like okay let’s manage of uka where’s the.

Bobby: where’s the vocal today how where are people fill in the book and how are you managing it, how are you slowing the game down, and that was super helpful for my leaders and throughout last year, they did an exceptional job of that.

Bobby: I was real proud of them.

David Horsager: Following that up you know you did something amazing that many leaders would like to do and it shows something about your leadership that you were able to do this, but you took into the pandemic of the ways, you took and basically.

David Horsager: Basically, took a sabbatical and left leadership of the organization, the hand of the senior leaders that you developed you had some time.

David Horsager: That you needed or felt like you needed or felt like it was best to take away and they stepped up, how are you able to do that so many times we don’t trust our big extension of trust and by.

David Horsager: The way just everybody out there knows I don’t believe you should do that anytime just because you want to like.

David Horsager: We can we have to prepare the way for that to work and somehow you did it in a way that you left and things kept running and even growing well.

David Horsager: Tell us about that.

Bobby: yeah you know, that was a hard decision and it wasn’t David in that you know embedded deeply in our culture is also, I believe our most important principle and.

Bobby: it’s team one is greater than team to, and I call my Familia and my family team one and populace group teams to and i’ve always been very vocal about.

Bobby: Making sure that everybody knows where my priorities are in that hey I love you populace group, but if my family’s threatened in any way or form i’m going to walk away from you in an instant.

Bobby: And I want you to behave the same way and so by modeling that and creating that safety for them, you know they it wasn’t a surprise to my organization.

Bobby: It was a bit of a shock to my executive team when I told them hey I have some things happening in my family and they need me and.

Bobby: Because I want to give you all everything that I have, I have to give everything that I have there and i’m going to need to step away.

Bobby: you’ve all been with me for a long time, you know what I expect i’m going to test my leadership and i’m going to extend that trust to you, I actually went as far as telling them don’t email me don’t call me unless it’s an hf call house on fire and.

Bobby: They respected that boundary and I even you know I set it up with them, and I said hey if you all have to make a big decision, and you need a tiebreaker, then you know I appointed someone as a tiebreaker.

Bobby: But it was hard to do, but it was the right thing to do so in a sense that made it very easy for me to to make that call.

Bobby: And I didn’t check a single email in five months that I was away I didn’t make a single call to any of them to check in.

Bobby: And they did a great job and one a one of the the area where i’m most proud of them David is you know you obviously know that trust is the only metric I care about.

Bobby: Our trust scores as an organization.

Bobby: Where the highest ever ever ever was and they did it without me, and so I was really proud of them for being able to do that and.

Bobby: I you know I think it’s been a very good growing experience for them and i’m just tremendously proud of what they were able to do.

David Horsager: Fantastic well there’s a whole lot more, we could talk about many more things.

David Horsager: i’d love to dive into i’m going to have i’m just gonna have to delay some of this till next time I think.

David Horsager: You know I want people to be thinking about your book the gift of struggle next time if we get another time and I haven’t had anybody on on a second time, but I definitely would be honored to have you.

David Horsager: The five questions to ask your self yearly I think that would be a good place to come back to but maybe it’s a cliffhanger people can go read your blog on the five things, everyone should ask themselves annually.

David Horsager: we’re going to put everything in the show notes that we’ve talked about, and definitely that the Bobby dash herrera.com and links to your book the gift of struggle and just a little bit more about you and the populace group i’m so.

David Horsager: grateful to know you and call you friend and so proud of you as a leader and both at home and at work, you know we always end this with one question it’s the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust Bobby and why.

Bobby: they’re this probably isn’t going to surprise you, but.

Bobby: yeah.

Bobby: My most trusted leader is is Jesus Christ, and just the way that he led his life and how he served and just what he left us to model, our goodness after and.

Bobby: that’s that’s the most trusted leader, that I do my best learn from because we could never be be like that we can definitely learn from from Jesus Christ.

Indeed.

David Horsager: From there where do we go.

David Horsager: Bobby Thank you, this has been the trusted leader show Thank you so much, Mr Bobby Herrera till next time everybody stay trusted.