Kent Svenson: Welcome to The Trusted Leader Show. I’m Kent Svenson, producer of The Trusted Leader Show. And for today’s episode we thought we would revisit a previous episode where David interviewed tech investor, author, speaker, and entrepreneur Susan Sly. In the episode, Susan talks about why our habits will shape who we are so we need to pay attention to make sure that our habits are shaping us to become the people that we want to become. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show.

David Horsager: You know, you talked about habits. There we might go backwards to some decisions, but

David Horsager: What are habits, you know, trusted leader. We talked about habits, all the time. Little things done consistently make the biggest difference. But what what are some habits. What routines. Do you have that help you be the trusted successful leader you are today.

Susan Sly: Well, David. Like you, I was went a different way than I am now. And so the one of the biggest ways we can shift our habits. I know you talked about this as modeling success.

Susan Sly: And I remember, you and I, having a conversation. Many years ago, and you were talking about how you lost weight and you went in.

Susan Sly: Instead of getting counseled by people who weren’t the way you want it to be. You went asked a bunch of people what they did and and you model their habits and shifting your body

Susan Sly: So I was the heaviest kid in my grade in a small town. And so I was teased. I was bullied. I was chased home i was i was

Susan Sly: You know, if you can’t see me. So I’m very all of skinned I mixed race. So I was teased for the color of my skin. I was, you know, bullied for my way it and so on.

Susan Sly: And so one day I made a decision I was watching the Olympics and I saw the the runners. Right. And I said,

Susan Sly: Okay if runners look like that. And I want to look like that. I have to learn to run. So I was 11 years old I got up at five in the morning and I went out the door to run and it was awful. I went 100 yards and I’m like, gasping for breath.

Susan Sly: But the next day I did it again and I went 150 yards and I went 200 yards. And the reason I share this

Susan Sly: Is because that is how I’ve developed all the habits in my life. So I wake up very early in the morning. It’s a habit that I am in I

Susan Sly: Detox my body I it’s a habit I have I, you know, drink close to a gallon of water a day. It’s the habit that I’m in. And if if everyone thinks about this that if we really it doesn’t take 21 days to build a habit.

Susan Sly: I’ve seen smokers who’ve tried to quit and and they’ve gone without cigarettes for six months, then they are triggered or someone who’s an alcoholic or whatever.

Susan Sly: It takes if you’re taking notes a habit takes as long as it takes.

Susan Sly: I’ve seen people I know you have to David.

Susan Sly: Who they have a traumatic life forget event and they never pick up a drink again or they never pick up a cigarette. Again, or whatever the case is. And then we see people who have a traumatic life event they keep on doing the same stuff.

Susan Sly: That got them to the cancer or got them to the bankruptcy or the divorce or whatever it is. So those the habits that I have must also align with the woman that I want to be.

Susan Sly: And so I set the bar very high for myself even my employees. I always say to them, I don’t expect you to keep up with me but I expect you to be 85 to 90% as good as I am.

Susan Sly: Because I will, I would have it, anyone if I want to learn something. I will. I would have it, someone who has way more experience than I do, because that’s what life is about, in my opinion, we keep learning and learning and learning until it’s our last breath and we go, Man, that was a rush.

David Horsager: So howdy so

David Horsager: Let’s get into this, even a little bit further, as long as we’re here how

David Horsager: First of all, routine. Any other routines, just this is can be interesting to people like what’s your you get up at what whatever time. And then what do you, what is the first thing. What kind of regular routines. The Susan sly do

Susan Sly: Sure, yeah. So Jim, Rome who, you know, amazing business philosopher. He was Tony Robbins mentor.

Susan Sly: I had the privilege of sharing the stage with him live the last time he spoke live in Dallas, Texas. I was many years ago. So I’m aging myself. I’m almost 50 if you can see me. But anyway, so Jimmy’s to say never.

Susan Sly: And you’re never start your day before you end your day never start your month before you end your month never start your year before you enter here and I said you know what, hey,

Susan Sly: I get success leaves clues develop the habit. So I got in the habit of writing out my day in advance so I use a online calendar. I use a paper Planner. And I literally will write out my day in advance. And if there’s something that’s not in alignment with my goals, it goes

David Horsager: So what do you do that when you do it by the way.

Susan Sly: At night.

David Horsager: The night before.

Susan Sly: Yet, the last thing I do when I close down my office. It’s the very last thing.

Susan Sly: I also write, make sure I write at least 10 items of gratitude every single day because

Susan Sly: To him or her, who is given, much is given, and essentially what that means is, the more we appreciate what we have, even the small things. And I think if coven taught us anything, it’s to do that right and so

Susan Sly: That’s the first thing I do that I wake up somewhere between four and five in the morning depends on the day. I, I pray I meditate.

Susan Sly: I heard the best thing last year, which is if you want something in your own life. Pray that same for someone else.

Susan Sly: So if you want prosperity you pray it over someone else if you want better health. And so I it’s got my list is so long, David, that it’s actually like an hour and then

Susan Sly: I go in my office. And that’s what I do my creative work I Clara any overnight emails slack messages like all of you, I, I’m in three slack channels and counting

Susan Sly: Text messages and all of that stuff, then I get a workout in. I move my body at least 90 minutes every day. Sometimes it’s peloton hot yoga running whatever it is getting kids ready for school. We have five kids four of them are at home right now. Yeah, we were talking

Susan Sly: And and then you know it’s getting suit suit up ready for my day my assistant does not book any meetings before 10 in the morning. I just won’t do it.

Susan Sly: Unless it’s, you know, there’s something that I must do. I’m a CEO of a company. So sometimes that happens, we work in different countries and time zones.

Susan Sly: And then I don’t let her book meetings. After three. That is my choice if I want to do a meeting between three and five. That’s my time to close things down, get my creative work done and so on. So that’s, that’s how I run my day.

David Horsager: I love it. That’s amazing. So let’s take, let’s go back to habits one step, you know, how do you build a new one. Like if you’re if you’re starting

David Horsager: With a new habit like you, like, Well, I’m gonna do this, I’m going to start running every day, but then they get to tomorrow and it doesn’t become a habit, as you know,

David Horsager: Most people wouldn’t do what you did. They gassed after honey hundred yards and they went back to bed. The next day. So breaking through and building a new habit. Any tips.

Susan Sly: Sure. That’s an amazing question. It’s it really starts with desire. And here are my tips for locking

Susan Sly: A you know really locking down that desired number one is ask yourself the question, precisely what is the habit define it clearly I want to run for 30 minutes a day not. I want to start running

Susan Sly: You know, I’ll chase you down the street, you’ll start running but it might not become a habit, like, be very clear. Number two is what is the benefit to you of developing this happen.

Susan Sly: And and list as many as you can. And then number three is what is the detriment. If you don’t develop the habit.

Susan Sly: And then number four is, Who in your life is suffering because you don’t have this habit.

Susan Sly: And then the fifth thing is

Susan Sly: What will this happen mean to five or 10 years down the road because it’s the compound effect like Darren Hardy talks about. So I’ll give you an example.

Susan Sly: So if viewers can see me I’ve got in my hand. It’s a glass men, the US a glass bottle. It’s empty of gloopy green stuff.

Susan Sly: So last year I decided, David. I’m like, You know what, I need to have more fresh fruits and vegetables, the Framingham study is the longest study done on cardiovascular health. But as an ancillary finding

Susan Sly: They found that if you consume five to seven servings of fresh fruits and vegetables a day, it reduces your risk of cancer. All kinds by 70%

Susan Sly: So I was going through my day eating, you know, eating having protein shakes and, you know,

Susan Sly: raw almonds and all that good stuff. But I realized I’m like oh my gosh, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. So I decided what I was going to do on Sunday is I was going to take

Susan Sly: You know, greens, I was going to take organic celery, Lemon juice in the VitaMix. I was going to mix this all up and I was going to

Susan Sly: Fill. Five Jars one for every day of the week and

Susan Sly: I was going to grab them and and that’s what I did. Now, it was really inconvenient because I had to like dedicate that time on Sunday to making this glue be green drink.

Susan Sly: And then the second thing was I had to figure out a way to make this a habit that it was so convenient that I had no excuse. Like even running out of my house to my office I could just grab it out of the fridge and I could go

Susan Sly: So that was a habit I developed last year and now it’s so ingrained in me because I’m going the detriment is the benefit is

Susan Sly: I reduce my risk of cancer and then the detriment is if I don’t do this, I’m not getting enough fresh fruits and vegetables. Maybe I could get cancer. Right. And you think about all the people in my life that benefit, that’s just an example.

David Horsager: I love it. Great, great five step process.

David Horsager: You know, I’ve got a Kent.

David Horsager: smiling at me. And by the way, Kent in studio here. Give a little wave is and maybe have a habit or I mean, maybe you have a question, but before that I’ll you know Kent is a healthy eater. He has a system of how he eats

David Horsager: I, as you know, was transformed and so I every morning they joke about me right here that I have a bag of salary I I generally eat a bag of salary every morning by noon.

David Horsager: It’s just habit, I just, I have the biggest seller. That means if I do that, I won’t do other things you talk about some of the books. I don’t know if as atomic habit or the other one I read. But basically, these Keystone habits.

David Horsager: Right, that that make other things go if I do that, then I don’t do all these other things. If I don’t do that so hungry, whatever, you know, then I won’t do other things. So

David Horsager: That’s that’s fun that you that’s a great process for or the new thing because we’ve got a couple new staff this week that hadn’t seen me just eat a green pepper, just like an apple, which is very common for me.

David Horsager: These days, but I love it. I think I would enjoy drinking what you have. They’re a little more than just eating raw salary. Some people can handle that. But it’s an easy way for me. I had

David Horsager: One thing I think about habits with what you said is, you’ve got to do what you will do. Right, so it’s not

David Horsager: what someone else would when people said to me, well, you just eat less, exercise more. Well, I’m not going to start running marathons, like my wife or like you but I found a way to do exercise that I will do. Right.

David Horsager: I’m not gonna never

David Horsager: eat ice cream. Again, but I can do this. Like, I’m not going to do all of this, but that one thing that you know I’m gonna, you know, so it’s it’s kind of like

David Horsager: Do creating what you will do you will go run 100 yards or whatever it is, at first, and now you run for days. I think so.

David Horsager: Go ahead. All right, I’m gonna I’m gonna shoot it to Kent Kent, what’s it. What’s a question for Susan slide.

David Horsager: So I was wondering that you’re talking about how how to really build

David Horsager: Good habits. Do you have any like insight on maybe someone has a habit. They’re trying to get rid of. They’re trying to stop. What are some like points. Some things that they can do in order to be able to get past that and be able to start building actually better, healthier habits.

Susan Sly: Can’t. That’s a great question. And, and the reason I I was eating a lot of celery, Dave, but it’s a teeth thing. And I was like, I, I have to can, to your point.

Susan Sly: The more you know in in, you know, in the business world, we talked about reducing friction in any sort of sap standard standard operating procedure so

Susan Sly: I look at my life like an experiment. So I’m like, How much friction can I reduce. So if I put the celery in the water in the VitaMix.

Susan Sly: Then I don’t have to deal with the teeth thing and I can just drink this thing. And guess what my digestive system loves it, because it’s already you know emulsified right so going to, I know there’s going to be the episode. Everyone’s like, that’s the celery episode.

David Horsager: We could have gone so many different directions. I have so many good we could take five episodes but

David Horsager: Let’s go with this. For now, we’ll get to some

Susan Sly: Soon, sir. So, what, what if we’re in the habit Ken’s question is that, and we know the habits not healthy. So sometimes what happens just taking a step back is

Susan Sly: We’ve developed a habit and it’s it’s served us in a way that no longer serves us because we’ve grown right

Susan Sly: And so we or we’ve gotten into a habit that we knew was toxic from the outset, but we told ourselves that we could control it. And this is where

Susan Sly: Alcoholism comes from and drug addiction or porn addiction or Netflix addiction or even coming out of this political cycle. There were a lot of people that became addicted to fear.

Susan Sly: But here’s the interesting thing in the brain, the same part of our brain that becomes addicted to something negative.

Susan Sly: Is also the same part that becomes addicted to something positive. So I’m going to go down a little rabbit hole for everyone. I’ll do it quickly. So there are four key hormones.

Susan Sly: That are the hormones of fulfillment and they’re the dose hormones dopa mean oxytocin serotonin and endorphins.

Susan Sly: dopa mean is that positive reinforcement. So how, if we go on Instagram and we like something that gives us a little dopamine hit

Susan Sly: So the same doping mean hit comes from checking something off our list and oxytocin is that hormone of connection serotonin is that that beautiful

Susan Sly: You know, feel good, kind of, you know, you know, just joy that we get and endorphins come from a challenge or a thrill right

Susan Sly: So if we understand how and I’ve done so many talks on this, we understand how these hormones reinforce our behavior. We can create any habit and we can get rid of any habit.

Susan Sly: And so how that happens is this. Firstly, we have to give ourselves an easy low friction way to check something off a box. And so that’s why social media is so addicting because it’s like, like, like right and Sarah tone is when

Susan Sly: dopa mean is when I like what Dave has and serotonin is when Dave likes what I have right so that’s how we get that. So what we do is we start our habit like this, we might write out a list and it says I easily run 10 minutes

Susan Sly: One day I easily run 10 minutes. Two days I usually run 10 mins three days. And so what we have, what we do is we begin to check off these easy goals and it gives us the dopey mean hit. There was a study done in Texas.

Susan Sly: And on saving money and the people who set small micro goals they actually end up saving more money than the people who set the big savings schools. So the people who said

Susan Sly: I am easily saving $100 a month they saved on average close to $5,000 whereas the people who said, I’m going to say 5000 they say less than 2500

Susan Sly: So we, we can build the new habit using joking mean oxytocin, the hormone of connection. So we want to surround ourselves and and David is world class at this with other people with the same habit.

Susan Sly: If you had nine friends who were marathon runners and you were the only non marathon runner. I bet you you’d end up doing a marathon. Right. And so getting in a Facebook group.

Susan Sly: You know, that’s why peloton is so addictive because they’ve got the group. They’ve got the doping mean they understand the psychology and these hormones.

Susan Sly: The next thing to Sarah tone in his other people reinforcing you for that habit. So who are your cheerleaders, who are you know again in those groups like Who are the people who are cheering you on. When you accomplish the goals.

Susan Sly: And then endorphins come from those challenges. And so maybe building up to doing a five k or building up to whatever that is. So,

Susan Sly: That’s how I suggest we develop habits. It’s that reinforcement. That’s how you know that’s how it’s served me and you know the thousands of people that I’ve spoken to on stages and things in terms of developing new habits.

David Horsager: Well, that’s awesome.

David Horsager: powerful, powerful, powerful stuff. And I think, you know, I want to jump into something else. But you know all of this talk really gets to that we believe organizations don’t change.

David Horsager: Only individuals do but when an individual does than a team and organization, even a country can I remember we were working on corruption issues in in East Africa, and we still

David Horsager: Definitely you know I’m not going flying over so much this last year with covered, but, but, you know, we have to change.

David Horsager: A police officer, we have to then change a sis, you know that we, we need to have systemic change, but we need to change. Somebody who will go away from 100 years old you know

David Horsager: Way of thinking, right. So it’s the same with health or anything else. We don’t change the company so much until we change a person of viewpoint and give them tools and resources inspiration to move forward. So I love that I

David Horsager: So many things I want to touch base on. Can you, you know, while we’re still on this. Can you give the quick kind of story of, you know, you had all these diagnosis, you should be dead doctor said, and yet you don’t have Ms. Now, just the quick what you know what that what happened.

Susan Sly: Sir, um, yeah. I had, I had Dave Asprey on my show and I think he articulated something that I was really seeking for many years is how do I answer that question.

Susan Sly: I became my own experiment. So when Montel not Montel Jordan. Montel Williams was diagnosed with MS. He became a huge advocate of the ketogenic diet. And I’m like, well, it’s working for Montel I’ll give it a try.

Susan Sly: You know detoxing. A lot of people in the MS world. We’re getting better. And they were they had some kind of regular detoxification plan.

Susan Sly: Ozone Therapy. There were so many things that I was like, hey, if it’s working. I’m going to try it. And so from that there. I came to my own formula of what works for me.

Susan Sly: And during that process of getting well I ended up getting diagnosed with Lyme disease. I was on a trip in Africa gotten amoeba. It started shutting down my organs. So in 2016 David, I almost died.

Susan Sly: And two doctors told me that if it wasn’t for the nutrition regime. I have, I would have been dead.

Susan Sly: And so I really felt like that was an opportunity for me because it took two years to come out of that. And then I was like, I get the opportunity to go into the next iteration of Susan, which was such a blessing right and

Susan Sly: And so yeah, my regime has shifted over the years. There’s still a lot of things I do, I do. IV therapy. I do. As I said, I do ozone therapy.

Susan Sly: I, you know, usually once a year, I go and I just go on like a like literal juice fasting retreat I you know self care is a big thing for me and you have to make time

Susan Sly: There are a lot of people, men and women executives who say I’ll do it when I’ll do it when we bring in this deal. You know, I, as a start up founder on the list of two companies for m&a

Susan Sly: I’m not saying that stuff. That’s how little excuse you have to take care of yourself now because cancer will come knocking when cancer comes knocking.

Susan Sly: All, you know, and I’ve seen so many people get derailed because they didn’t take care of themselves. And then the last thing I want to say about this is

Susan Sly: You don’t just wake up one day and decide to get healthy

Susan Sly: And make change in that day. And the same thing is true. You just don’t wake up one day unhealthy.

Susan Sly: All of those Doritos and the the aspartame, you had in the diet sodas and all the little things that eventually became a domino effect. And then you woke up one day and you were not well. And the other thing is, most people don’t know how bad they feel until they start feeling good.

David Horsager: That’s that is true.

David Horsager: Well, let’s take a leap here because what what I love about this and i love about you, Susan is you seek to be healthy.

David Horsager: In life, and it makes you a better CEO and you built some incredible companies that have have had global impact your CEO of a company right now. You’re, you have a huge following and

David Horsager: You know, you got these couple m&a is coming up. So let’s jump to let’s let’s actually jump to your newest radio say i i mean

David Horsager: This is a new you know i know you just came out of a new MIT program I’m you’re a continual learner. I mean, it just because you needed to have that expertise at this age for this new type of company. So tell us about that and what you’re learning these days.

Susan Sly: Are absolutely. The question I would ask everyone to really sit with you know whether you’re listening on the treadmill or your, you know, in your car on an airplane or wherever you are.

Susan Sly: What is the gap in your life.

Susan Sly: And what is that thing that if your career was only known for what you had previously done

Susan Sly: And could be known for no more that you would feel is missing.

Susan Sly: Because I’m going to tell everyone right now. And it’s not that I’m talking at you. I’m talking with you as appear. We all have that thing, whether it’s writing a book or stepping into the C suite or

Susan Sly: Going from the C suite to creating a legacy program to mentor kids or whatever it is for you. We’re all there’s always that one thing for us. So as I was

Susan Sly: You know, after the age 45 and coming out of nearly dying from the amoeba and everything else.

Susan Sly: I sat with our question because when we’re, we’re in illness. This is not a bad thing, necessarily. It’s an opportunity to reflect

Susan Sly: And so I said, what is that one thing and it was really technology.

Susan Sly: And so when i was i graduated University in 92 I left home when I was 15 years old I put myself through college. I did a science degree.

Susan Sly: At the end of university I was coding and we were doing some of the early facial recognition algorithms.

Susan Sly: And I left all of that went into the health space went into professional sales built three award winning sales teams and

Susan Sly: And when I came out of that experience. The technology was that part of me that I was like, if, if this was all I’ve done, I’ve done some pretty kick butt things, but I haven’t

Susan Sly: Conquered this mountain. So I was in the process of designing my own technology and I ended up bumping into someone who is just newly founded an AI company.

Susan Sly: And they brought me in to help them raise money which, if I have one area of genius raising money is not a problem.

Susan Sly: So, so we start raising this money and I become a co founder and we brought in $7.1 million in seed funding and we didn’t do it with any institutional investors.

Susan Sly: And you know just started growing the company. I went from a vice president or President to co CEO, which I prefer being co CEO as opposed to see you and my other CEO, he’s

Susan Sly: He PhD engineer really bright and we complement each other so

Susan Sly: where we’re at with this company is we’re providing business intelligence in the retail sector, but in the healthcare sector, we’re actually doing code pre screening and taking the burden off frontline workers so

Susan Sly: Mayo Clinic, we’re doing an installation, the VA right now and and how this is so interesting and fascinating David I want everyone, especially the CEOs to lean in and listen and and all of your, your audience.

Susan Sly: Last year McKinsey came out with a report that said by the year 20 3800 million jobs would be displaced globally by AI and machine learning.

Susan Sly: What Kovac did is it accelerated that a lot of companies who laid off people, those people aren’t coming back because they will use machine learning, they will use AI, they will use robotics and so the reason I bring this all up. You mentioned like I’m a lifelong learner.

Susan Sly: Because it’s about adapting to our terrain.

Susan Sly: And I don’t care if you’re in your 30s, 40s.

Susan Sly: Our mentor Harvey MacKay he’s still adopting he’s almost 90 we must continuously adapt.

Susan Sly: So this next iteration of my career will really be about taking artificial intelligence and using it for good. So at our company. We only do human centric AI, we only do a project if it’s going to help humans become better and not replace them.

David Horsager: How do you, I love it. How did you create your team. When you think about bringing this team together. I know you and the co founder, you got this. The complement each other. You’ve got these key things but

David Horsager: Now you’re growing company, your significant valuation.

David Horsager: Might have an couple m&a opportunities for a couple companies you have, but how have you

David Horsager: Grown that team. How do you do with building this trusted team. How do you let people go when they need to, like, how do you create that culture and that team that you need and and make sure it is high performing

Susan Sly: That’s an amazing question. And especially in the startup space where you have a high level of churn.

Susan Sly: One of the things that I think our team has done really well is we’ve hired through referrals like attracts like right so two of our amazing application engineers one came from a significant background and GoDaddy.

Susan Sly: They were friends of one of our initial investors and and they’re just amazing humans at our mutual friend Christine Jones knows this guy and he’s incredible. His name is Jeff.

Susan Sly: But that’s what we did. We started. And the same thing with all of the business that we’re bringing in. Now it’s come from our relationships, our connections.

Susan Sly: Harvey always says Harvey MacKay good agreements prevent disagreements.

Susan Sly: And it’s a philosophy. We’ve used at the company. So when someone’s coming in. We’re very clear. We’re a startup. We have an Aesop

Susan Sly: We can’t pay you what you’re worth. But here’s what we can do and you’re some days some weeks you’re going to work seven days a week, but we are also are going to be flexible. We’re gonna have an open door policy.

Susan Sly: There and I’ll just share this story very quickly for all of the people who are overseeing people so many, many years ago.

Susan Sly: In Canada, there was a band called The tragically hip and they were like, The Rolling Stones of Canada.

Susan Sly: And early in my fitness career I prepped them for tours. I was their nutritionist. I was their trainer and when they had a conflict, they would lock themselves in a room until it was solved.

Susan Sly: And so one of the philosophies, we’ve had, especially for see team is if there’s been a conflict, we do not stop until it is resolved.

Susan Sly: And if someone has an issue with someone they pick up the phone and they deal with it.

Susan Sly: And that philosophy for us has been so important in our governance, so that you know and it’s it’s felt, you know, you know this better than anyone because this is your area of genius. If the C team has conflict, the entire team has conflict.

David Horsager: Undeniably So jumping one more level. Have you had to let someone go ever. It doesn’t benefit.

Susan Sly: Yeah yeah

David Horsager: And we know how, how do you either decide that. And how do you do that because that’s, you know, that’s a challenge people have. It’s like that like me.

David Horsager: I hate letting people go but sometime the most trusted thing you can do, or the, excuse me, just the best thing you can do the most compassionate thing you can do for them and the organization is to let them go. And yet it plagues many of us.

Susan Sly: We let them go because it was a trust issue. They’re very capable engineer super smart.

Susan Sly: And and they left our company and they got a $400,000 you know next job. Right. But it was a trust issue and our CTO, he came from a company called amino which is the largest privately held healthcare database in the world.

Susan Sly: And this man has an amazing soul, and he came to us and he said, Listen, this is what this person did to violate trust.

Susan Sly: And he’s great in terms of his skill, but that’s just not going to work. And so anyone. We’ve let go of and there hasn’t been a lot. It’s been a trust issue. And that’s our number one KPI if we can’t trust you. You’re out you don’t care how many PhDs, you have.

David Horsager: Right.

David Horsager: I love it.

Kent Svenson: That’s it for this week’s episode. Be sure to check out trustedleadershow.com for all the show notes and all the links to any of the information mentioned in today’s episode. And if you haven’t already, we would greatly appreciate a review on Apple Podcasts. This is a great way to help support the show and for other people to discover it. But in the meantime, that’s it for this week’s episode, thank you so much for listening, and until next time stay trusted.