[david_horsager]: Welcome to the trusted leader Show. it’s David Horasger and I have a special

[david_horsager]: guest, a brilliant woman entrepreneur. She’s helped build an eight figure

[david_horsager]: consulting business, a seven figure coaching business in short order. and

[david_horsager]: uh, she has gone from kind of sleeping on the couch, Uh, doing sales door to

[david_horsager]: door a decade or maybe more ago, to two beautiful kids. Her husband is a

[david_horsager]: dear friend of mine, Also their family friends. They reside in Nashville.

[david_horsager]: Please welcome the CEO, co founder of Brand Builders Group AJ Vaden,

[david_horsager]: thanks for being on AJ.

[aj_vaden]: Oh, thank you. that makes me sound so fancy. so

[david_horsager]: Oh man, clients from Bridgetone to Verizon Cellular to Uh, Direct T V. I.

[david_horsager]: I’m really glad to have you young, because you know we know each other as

[david_horsager]: friends also, but I know you also. I mean, just watching and being alongside

[david_horsager]: both of you building your businesses and making a huge impact along the way.

[david_horsager]: We love that and I think you know

[david_horsager]: you’ve got these two beautiful sons. I’ve been to your home and stay there,

[david_horsager]: Um in Nashville, with an amazing place, but Jasper and leam, Let’s start

[david_horsager]: with just a little bit of who you are and actually even back to how you got

[david_horsager]: your start in sales. Because I think that’s interesting, and then we’re

[david_horsager]: going to jump to and spend most of our time on your newest national study, A

[david_horsager]: trends in personal branding. Because I think everybody can learn something

[david_horsager]: and take away something from that. We’re going to give away uh, uh, access

[david_horsager]: to that special access. but before just you know what, a ▁j, Give us a

[david_horsager]: start. A little background. who you are?

[aj_vaden]: okay, Well, I would say the most important job I have is the job of mom to Jasper

[aj_vaden]: and Liam. I’ve got a two year old and a four year old and

[aj_vaden]: I think they were both born um, old souls. And it’s so funny because my oldest is

[aj_vaden]: four and a half, which he will very distinctively remind you every single time you

[aj_vaden]: say that he’s four, but he’s in this little home school hybrid and I work from

[aj_vaden]: home, and so he gets to be home a lot. But he goes to this home school hybrid

[aj_vaden]: three days a week, and his facilitator name is Miss Feather, and she’s very uh,

[aj_vaden]: encouraging of just letting their natural personalities flourish and not to

[aj_vaden]: dismantle any sort of irregular behavior, like when he’s bossing us around, or you

[aj_vaden]: know, Bosston’s little brother around, but just teaching them how to channel that

[aj_vaden]: right. So I’ve been trying to work on that and he comes, and he works in my office

[aj_vaden]: on occasion and he helps my husband with his podcast. So anyways, he’s at school

[aj_vaden]: one day, and uh, he’s literally bossing all the kids around telling him what to do

[aj_vaden]: and how to do it. And and so it gets to the point that all these other little kids

[aj_vaden]: are like telling their mom. like Jasper’s really mean to us. Dresser’s really

[aj_vaden]: bossy. Jasper is always telling us what to do. And so I approach his teacher one

[aj_vaden]: day and I’m like Okay, you haven’t brought this up, and now I’m concerned that my

[aj_vaden]: kid is a bully and she goes. No, No, no, he’s not a bully. He just has really

[aj_vaden]: great leadership potential.

[david_horsager]: there you go.

[david_horsager]: Oh,

[aj_vaden]: Ah, it’s one of my favorite

[david_horsager]: that’s fun.

[aj_vaden]: stories of like the last year. Uh, we always talk about Jasper’s leadership

[aj_vaden]: potential. Uh are just a little boss.

[david_horsager]: We’ve I’ve got some strong kiddos too, and I’ve got. I do see know one of

[david_horsager]: mine. think of a lot. I think they all have some unique leadership gifts in

[david_horsager]: different ways. They’ all very different, but one of them is very strong and

[david_horsager]: man. But she is

[david_horsager]: amazing now and you can see she’s growing up and

[david_horsager]: some of those things have softened in her and some of that strength and

[david_horsager]: passion. It just it’s so cool to see how she who she’s becoming, you know as

[david_horsager]: a leader. So

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, I know it’s It’s one of my biggest fears. It’s not just a parent but as a

[aj_vaden]: human is that I would diminish the light of someone around me by not just letting

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: home be who they are And it’s been such a great, Uh. test of restraint To just go

[aj_vaden]: right.

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: I’m going to channel this. I’m going to put it in a positive direction. Um, but

[david_horsager]: well, a discipline. I would. I would argue, discipline correction in the

[david_horsager]: right way. In love is uh, healthy as well, and we all need it, and and in

[david_horsager]: fact, we all are held accountable every day, whether it’s to our bottom line

[david_horsager]: or our people. And so um, learning some restraint. I’m not. It’s not all

[david_horsager]: bad. For sure. Um,

[aj_vaden]: no, definitely not definitely not.

[david_horsager]: so I. I. I want to get into the study, but before I do, I do think it’s

[david_horsager]: interesting. you know when we first met, hearing your story of basically

[david_horsager]: kind of sleep on couches wherever selling door to door, and you become one

[david_horsager]: of the you know, if you go way back, one of the top sales people

[david_horsager]: back when people sold, I want to say B books of some kind, And so, and

[david_horsager]: that’s bigger than that. I believe in the south. I don’t. I think they used

[david_horsager]: to do it up here, but I don’t know. for sure.

[david_horsager]: Uh, uh, hopefully we still read as much in the north because I’m a big big

[david_horsager]: into reading. But but tell us just about a quick glimpse of that journey to

[david_horsager]: becoming the leader that you are. E. especially in that I think this grit

[david_horsager]: story. You know.

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, no, that’s so good and honestly, Sales was not something I ever thought I

[aj_vaden]: would be doing. I don’t think most people go to school. I, or at least not when I

[aj_vaden]: was in college or high school. Said I’m going to grow up and I’m going to be in

[aj_vaden]: sales. I think maybe people say that today, but they did not hunt. Uh, when I was

[aj_vaden]: in college and I was an art major, Little known

[david_horsager]: Wow,

[aj_vaden]: fact, and

[aj_vaden]: it was my senior year of college and my dad, Uh, so not so kindly suggested, But I

[aj_vaden]: get a real job and a real career, And so I swapped it to the last minute to

[aj_vaden]: advertising, and I spent about six weeks in my first job before I realized. Oh,

[aj_vaden]: no, like this, corporate life is not for me like I, This is not going to go well,

[aj_vaden]: I have to like, be here eight o’clock. I have to stay heretil five. Oh, my gosh,

[aj_vaden]: they’re going to tell me when I can take vacation. What? Like the real world did

[aj_vaden]: not sink in until I was in it. Um, and I really quickly realized I don’t know if I

[aj_vaden]: would ever be a really good employee. and uh, I. That assumption was correct very

[aj_vaden]: early on, And so I started in this a journey of entrepreneurialism

[david_horsager]: so you swap for working fourteen hour days instead of eight hour days

[aj_vaden]: Eighty like that, eighty hour

[david_horsager]: Exactly.

[aj_vaden]: weeks. It like really smart man, but really smart.

[david_horsager]: I know I know you. I know your work ethic over there, so I’m pretty sure

[david_horsager]: that was not a good swap if you were going for hours and a day.

[aj_vaden]: No, it was definitely not because I think my first year in sales, I made twenty

[aj_vaden]: four thousand dollars the entire year Like that was my first year

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: and I was legitimately working twelve fifteen hour days. Um, literally, like

[aj_vaden]: sharing cars. Like did everything I owned fit in a car Like it was. It was no joke

[aj_vaden]: and I think a huge part of why I love that about, Um. our business kind of

[aj_vaden]: foundation. As we started our first business and starting a. My business was

[aj_vaden]: really the first job I had out of college and it was in two thousand and five so.

[aj_vaden]: Like Take it back fifteen years, And that was like right at the beginning of the

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: recession, And it was a really beautiful gift because I didn’t know business any

[aj_vaden]: other way and I remember talking to these people and working with these different

[aj_vaden]: companies. And and they would always talk about. Well, it’s just not the same and

[aj_vaden]: to me the naiveity of what’s a recession.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: What are they talking about? Was such a blessing and such a gift. And uh, it was a

[aj_vaden]: very long. Uh, trial and error life of hard knocks experienced. I had no formal

[aj_vaden]: sales training, no formal leadership training. A hundred percent of it was Just

[aj_vaden]: learn it on the job and that you keep doing it until you finally figure it out And

[aj_vaden]: that is how it started.

[david_horsager]: before they before we jump into the study, which we’ve got to get to,

[david_horsager]: because I’m telling for those that are watching, and most of your listening.

[david_horsager]: this is all printed out the study. It’s significant. but what’s the and

[david_horsager]: takeaways? We need to jump into a spec, especially as trust is concerned.

[david_horsager]: But Um, what’s at a top takeaway from your first ten years in sales and

[david_horsager]: leadership,

[aj_vaden]: Oh, that’s so good. I would say my biggest takeaway is that I thought that working

[aj_vaden]: more hours meant more success and wrong

[aj_vaden]: it,

[aj_vaden]: and I was conditioned for a really long time that your worth is in your sales

[aj_vaden]: results, and that the more you work, the more important you are. And I think the

[aj_vaden]: biggest takeaway is stepping back. going. My work has nothing to do with my

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: work. Not whatsoever. What I do does not define who I am, and I would say we have

[aj_vaden]: really strict cut off times in our family Now if we can’t fit between the hours of

[aj_vaden]: nine and five thirty, it’s really not going to fit in our life, and it makes this

[aj_vaden]: work really efficiently and really effectively. But the idea of sixty and eighty

[aj_vaden]: hour works and grinded it out to your eyes Bleed is no longer a philosophy I

[aj_vaden]: believe in.

[david_horsager]: and in the midst of that you grew a an immensely successful business and

[david_horsager]: then Uh, exited that and basically built another one an unbelievable time.

[david_horsager]: And it’s been amazing to watch. and I don’t know anybody more disciplined as

[david_horsager]: a couple than you two. As far as I, I know, we’re talking to our mutual

[david_horsager]: friend Jason Dorsey. And you guys were just in in Mexico together and all

[david_horsager]: four of us Uh, were together recently. Um, and he said I tell you, this guy,

[david_horsager]: Ro. He just like it’s time. It’s it’s five, five thirty or six thirty. It’s

[david_horsager]: like he’s not puts phone away, and he is with the kids or he’s with you. You

[david_horsager]: know he’s like he is present, pretty cool.

[david_horsager]: Lots more we could learn from you as leaders, sales experts, and really

[david_horsager]: business builders. But this business that you have is brand builders, and

[david_horsager]: you know it’s It’s interesting. Some of the findings. There’s so much here.

[david_horsager]: If I’m going to ask some specific things about the trends at first, you

[david_horsager]: know. Here you go. you talk to a trust guy. I’m like, Oh

[david_horsager]: want. I want to really be trusted. Not just a pi, which is what a lot of

[david_horsager]: people seem to try to do in marketing branding space. And you know I’m

[david_horsager]: always trying to really help people build trustworthiness. And and yet you

[david_horsager]: know what? if they don’t know it, they don’t see it, they don’t hear even

[david_horsager]: what is real. Then you don’t make any impact. So I, I was fascinated by some

[david_horsager]: of this work and some of what people are saying, especially across

[david_horsager]: generations, so let’s jump into first. You know why the study, and why now,

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, oh man, when we started out on this venture with the Center for generational

[aj_vaden]: Ketics a year ago, now was over a year agocause. we launched the study in January

[aj_vaden]: of twenty one, What we really wanted to do was go. Hey, Are all of these

[aj_vaden]: hypotheses that we have actually true? Like we see that personal branding is the

[aj_vaden]: future of marketing. But is that just our imagination? Is that just the way we

[aj_vaden]: want it to be? And so we really wanted to go out and get some third party data and

[aj_vaden]: fill this national research study? Because we also said if we’re not right, like,

[aj_vaden]: please let us find out right now. Um, before we would get too far into the weeds

[aj_vaden]: year and get too deep. And so we started on this. We spent six months fielding the

[aj_vaden]: study at compiling the data, analyzing the data, esimating the data, and at

[aj_vaden]: working with this third party research form, really helping us figure out what are

[aj_vaden]: the questions that we really wanted the answers to, And when we got the data back,

[aj_vaden]: No, yes, Luckily, a lot of our assumptions were proven true. Let a lot of them

[aj_vaden]: were proven wrong,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: which was equally validating of going. Oh, man, like we had this really wrong, and

[aj_vaden]: to be able to take this data and to help other people expedite their personal

[aj_vaden]: brands, Either businesses has been revolutionary in the last six months,

[david_horsager]: it’s very interesting. So, when you say uh, let’s jump into a few things and

[david_horsager]: there is so much more here, and in fact you’ve given free access. thank you

[david_horsager]: so much, David Di that free Brand study Dot Com will have that and the notes

[david_horsager]: cant to have that in the notes for everybody, David Dot, free Brand Study

[david_horsager]: Dot Com and I want everybody to hear. I know we’ll do it at the end, But

[david_horsager]: your main website for brand builders is

[aj_vaden]: Brandbuilders group Dot com.

[david_horsager]: Bran Builders Group Dot Com. You can find out a whole lot more and uh,

[david_horsager]: fortunate to be in a a mastermind group with Uh, your husband rori, and just

[david_horsager]: know you both as a couple. but let’s get in here and look at this. so First

[david_horsager]: of all, why why does even this branding stuff matter to senior leaders?

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, so this is the part that was not even on our radar, like when we set out,

[aj_vaden]: and to figure out what do Americans consider a personal brand? What industries is

[aj_vaden]: it most important? For what professions? What titles like really truly executives

[aj_vaden]: and C. E, Os and entrepreneurs really weren’t on our radar. A huge part of our

[aj_vaden]: audience tend to be the solo penur, I would say the entrepreneur, but it’s the

[aj_vaden]: typical personal brand. the speaker, author, trainer, coach, podcaster consultant,

[aj_vaden]: But when this study came back, there were three really amazing correlations Um,

[aj_vaden]: with this one underlying current around Trust,

[aj_vaden]: and there, these are the three kind of like toable things as it came back as. The

[aj_vaden]: first thing is that personal branding truly is the future of marketing, and at ▁

[aj_vaden]: gim, ▁z, specifically, as we highlight this by generations, literally said that at

[aj_vaden]: personal branding to them is not a thing of vanity or popularity. This is

[aj_vaden]: literally an essential and critical part of how they do business.

[david_horsager]: Okay, so let’s talk

[aj_vaden]: And so,

[david_horsager]: about this one for a moment, because I’m going to bring up a couple a couple

[david_horsager]: of thoughts from this one. So it’s the future and I would think. Oh, it’s

[david_horsager]: vanity. It’s kind of like you’, just a look.

[david_horsager]: And and yet, Uh, I think this is jumping toward the back of the study now,

[david_horsager]: but I was astounded. Let me see if I even have it here. Um

[david_horsager]: Eylon Mus has sixty million total followers. Bit Coin has three point two,

[david_horsager]: five million. You take people right,

[david_horsager]: uh, uh, let’s see, Christiano Rinaldo has five hundred and eighty seven

[david_horsager]: million followers. Coca Cola, the big massive, Uh brand of Coca Cola has

[david_horsager]: less than a fifth of that many followers. So you tell about the importance

[david_horsager]: and I think if I was going to jump in, I didn’t see this in the study, but T

[david_horsager]: mobile, I mean, the he’s not there anymore. The c e o. That was a part of

[david_horsager]: just rejuvenating and revitalizing and growing te mobile. Amazing, but

[david_horsager]: people could relate to that human. So if we think that the the human element

[david_horsager]: like it increases, trust, tell me a little bit more about why this is. You

[david_horsager]: know why it’s significant to kind of have a personal brand. Let me step back

[david_horsager]: for one second. Because what I see and I’ve seen this in in in just my

[david_horsager]: research on the trustwork is we trust people

[david_horsager]: over brand so that

[aj_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: there’s a truth there.

[david_horsager]: But what does that mean for our future?

[aj_vaden]: yeah, so here’s a couple of things I think are really important to know, and

[aj_vaden]: there’ three parts of this right. In order for someone to trust you, they have to

[aj_vaden]: be able to see you.

[aj_vaden]: they have to be able to get to know you, and in today’s world they have to be able

[aj_vaden]: to learn from you

[aj_vaden]: right and it’s one thing to be trusted by people who know you and your small

[aj_vaden]: surroundings. But that’s not how we live anymore. We live on a global, a global

[aj_vaden]: landscape, And with all the conversations around the metaivese, it’s not going

[aj_vaden]: away. it’s amplifying and an expedited fashion. So when you talk about Okay, if

[aj_vaden]: personal branding is all about really accelerating trust, Well, then you got to

[aj_vaden]: think about how how do I do that with the masses? How do I do that with people who

[aj_vaden]: don’t get to know me who don’t sit at the dinner table with me who don’t come into

[aj_vaden]: my office who don’t have regular conversations with me, And then you say Well, I

[aj_vaden]: have to be seen. I have to be in front of them because the truth is if people

[aj_vaden]: don’t know you, then they cannot trust you, nor do business with you, or be loyal

[aj_vaden]: to you or anything else with you. But it’s not just a matter of being seen any

[aj_vaden]: Morere is like people really want to know you like. Even starting this interview

[aj_vaden]: today, I loved what you said you said. Hey, I, in addition to talk about the

[aj_vaden]: business stuff, I have found that my listeners really like to know the personal

[aj_vaden]: sides. don’t be afraid to talk about your family and your kids. that is personal

[aj_vaden]: brandingcause. People really want to know that part of you more than the business.

[aj_vaden]: They much more care about. what did you dress up as Halloween with your kids

[aj_vaden]: versus what you know new business offering. Do you have truly?

[david_horsager]: Mhm, Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: and then there is an expectation to day wholeheartedly that you need to give me

[aj_vaden]: value. You need to teach me. I need to learn from you way before I would ever be

[aj_vaden]: willing to give you my money. And that’s not like a great ideal. Like Hey, give

[aj_vaden]: content out for freeurry. You give value like that’s no longer

[aj_vaden]: a suggestion at that is an expectation in business to day that I will learn from

[aj_vaden]: you way before I will ever ever give you my money. Because the truth is with

[aj_vaden]: Google and the internet and social media and Tik Tok, and you, too, like I can

[aj_vaden]: learn just about anything I need to know online. So if you’re not going to give it

[aj_vaden]: to me for furry, why would ever pay you?

[david_horsager]: So let’s before we get into number two. What?

[david_horsager]: What is? what? Is one specific thing that we should be doing?

[david_horsager]: Leaders should do to build a high trust personal brand that will affect

[david_horsager]: their corporation.

[aj_vaden]: it is is. I know this is going to sound so simple. Let people get to know you and

[aj_vaden]: create a form in which they can do that. Now the obvious one is social media That

[aj_vaden]: doesn’t have to be your job. Your choice. I, I don’t tell everyone to go on social

[aj_vaden]: media. Social media is not for everyone one, but it is the most obvious platform

[aj_vaden]: to reach the masses. but others are like. How involved are you in your local

[aj_vaden]: community, your local church. How how much face time do your employees actually

[aj_vaden]: get with you? and I would say face time to day is also considered on camera?

[aj_vaden]: Right? Do they actually know you have kids? Do they know where you’re from? Do

[aj_vaden]: they know what your hobbies are? Do they know why you started this business? Do

[aj_vaden]: they know why you’re still in this business? Do they know what you did before this

[aj_vaden]: business and most employees don’t?

[david_horsager]: M.

[aj_vaden]: most clients don’t, but that is a. That is an essence of how do I want to be seen,

[aj_vaden]: and how do I want to be known, or what do I want to be known for.

[aj_vaden]: And then you actually have to go out and do those things right. It’s like If you

[aj_vaden]: want to be seen as a trusted leader, Well then you have to show people that there

[aj_vaden]: is a level of transparency and vulnerability and authenticity. And it’s like that

[aj_vaden]: has to do with opening up the book. And you know it’s like opening the doors and

[aj_vaden]: going here. It is

[david_horsager]: Y.

[aj_vaden]: here, I am.

[david_horsager]: So number two big finding, as far as in the overall studies is that it

[david_horsager]: actually is highly profitable to work on deal with this personal brand.

[david_horsager]: creating a high trust personal bran in a real, and I would keep pushing in a

[david_horsager]: real way. not a fake brand, but really letting people know who you really

[david_horsager]: are. Americans are willing to spend more on products and services from

[david_horsager]: individuals with established personal brands. Number one. of course, go, of

[david_horsager]: course, because they know you, but tell us more.

[aj_vaden]: Mhm. Yes, of sixty seven per cent. So that’s two thirds of Americans, so that they

[aj_vaden]: are more willing to spend more money. And that’s the key word. More money. not

[aj_vaden]: just money, but more money with an established personal brand versus a company.

[aj_vaden]: Now, some of that comes back to another statistic that I think is equally as

[aj_vaden]: important that as the majority of Americans said, in fact, it was around eighty

[aj_vaden]: per cent. And if you take just millenniials, eighty eight per cent of millennials,

[aj_vaden]: and and also have to reference this millenniials are actually considered age

[aj_vaden]: twenty six to forty four, So some of you have been denying that you are a

[aj_vaden]: millenniial for a roe, longan. Ah, surprise.

[david_horsager]: Yes,

[aj_vaden]: you are one of it. twenty sixy, forty four. That’s what we define as a millennial,

[aj_vaden]: A eighty eight per cent of them said that they are more likely to promote

[aj_vaden]: Recommend by and not just by, but actually, uh, tell other people to buy, but also

[aj_vaden]: they arere more likely to stay with your company, So retention is involved.

[aj_vaden]: They’re more likely to refer other people to work for your company. Invest in your

[aj_vaden]: company all these different things, if the personal values of the founder or

[aj_vaden]: executive alliance with their personal

[david_horsager]: H.

[aj_vaden]: values. so this is no longer just about consumer decisions. this is about

[aj_vaden]: retention, and in the middle of what they arere calling the great Resignation. I

[aj_vaden]: would say Retention is a really big deal to pretty much every single leader at

[aj_vaden]: every scale right now, and you got to be going okay. Uh, If this whole concept of

[aj_vaden]: this resignation is happening, then we got ask. Well, why?

[aj_vaden]: why?

[david_horsager]: absolutely

[david_horsager]: I’ reading one, it might have been the one you talk about from your study.

[david_horsager]: Eighty percent of all Americans agree that companies are more influential if

[david_horsager]: their executives have a personal brand they know and follow so people will

[david_horsager]: spend more money. Finally, there’s this trust accelerator. Tell us about

[david_horsager]: that,

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, So this is one of my favorite statistics, but it did not come from our

[aj_vaden]: study. Um, so this is actually a study done by social chorus. and is as that,

[aj_vaden]: ninety five per cent of millennials say their most trusted source of product

[aj_vaden]: information is their friends. They’ll just hold for a second cause. When I first

[aj_vaden]: read that, I did not know to be terrified or fascinated, right because a ninety

[aj_vaden]: five percent of mallenial say their most trusted source of product information or

[aj_vaden]: your friends than I was thinking about of my friends. I’m going. Oh lord, like

[aj_vaden]: this is a. This is a problem, right. But then, like I compared that to our study

[aj_vaden]: where it says that seventy four per cent of Americans, seventy four. The three

[aj_vaden]: fourths say that they are more likely to trust you if you have an established

[aj_vaden]: personal brand. So we start of asking ourselves this question of what is it? And

[aj_vaden]: then something dawned on us and we went back to an earlier data point that we had

[aj_vaden]: in the study which asks the questions,

[aj_vaden]: What is a personal brand?

[aj_vaden]: What is it Now as a company, Branduilder’s group I, We say that a personal brand

[aj_vaden]: is just the extension of your reputation, Right, It’s the digitization and the

[aj_vaden]: monetization of your reputation, That’s what we say, But here’s what Americans

[aj_vaden]: said, American said that a personal brand to them is simply some one who is

[aj_vaden]: recognizable

[aj_vaden]: so. Pause with that. go back to this social chorus. stat. that said ninety five

[aj_vaden]: per cent of millenniial, say their most trusted source of product information in

[aj_vaden]: their as their friends, and that it all comes together Well. of course it is

[aj_vaden]: because that’s who they see, know like and trust. Of course it’s their friends,

[aj_vaden]: because to them those are people who have and established personal brants. Those

[aj_vaden]: are the people that are recognizable to them.

[david_horsager]: so we don’t have a billion dollar budget and we can’t put. and maybe it

[david_horsager]: doesn’t matter. you know, anyway. if Coca cola is less recognized than some

[david_horsager]: things in a way, But how? what are a couple things? and you do many at Bran

[david_horsager]: Builders Group, But what are a couple things we can think about doing to be

[david_horsager]: more recognizable so that we are more trusted, so that we get to Ha, make it

[david_horsager]: a greater impact in the ways we feel cold?

[aj_vaden]: Yeah, so I mean, it’s sure one day to point that kind of connects into this

[aj_vaden]: because one of the things that if you don’t have this huge budget right and and

[aj_vaden]: most don’t right, there is very few. that would say, I have billion dollar million

[aj_vaden]: dollar budgets to do something like this, But let’s say you have a tiny budget

[aj_vaden]: right. This was one of the most. This was my favorite data point of the whole

[aj_vaden]: study because it blew my mind and we asked Americans. What are the most important

[aj_vaden]: factors to you when deciding whom to purchase from whom to hire Right, and we ask

[aj_vaden]: things like. Is it important that you have a bestelling book and your are times

[aj_vaden]: spelling book? Do you need to have viral youtue videos at Ted talk? Ah, do they

[aj_vaden]: need to have like tons of media? Do you need to have like a huge business? You

[aj_vaden]: need to have you know all these different things,

[aj_vaden]: none of em. It was none of those things, the most single, most important. In fact,

[aj_vaden]: sixty two per cent of Americans said. The most important factor when deciding whom

[aj_vaden]: to hire to them was did you have testimonials

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: like? Did you have people who would put it on record that you are who you say you

[aj_vaden]: are, and you do what you say you’re going to do,

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: And that’s amazing, because that’s the cheapest fastest easiest thing that we can

[aj_vaden]: possibly do is to get testimonials So when you think about like, what can I do and

[aj_vaden]: the cheapest fastest easy as fashion is to get other people to validate that you

[aj_vaden]: are who you, Ha, are you? You are who you. Say you are, and you do what you say

[aj_vaden]: you’re going to do. It’s getting testimonials And I would say the exact same thing

[aj_vaden]: happens within an organization, right. It’s it’s getting them from your employees

[aj_vaden]: from your executives from you know, not just your clients, but from the people who

[aj_vaden]: actually are in the organization.

[david_horsager]: That’s amazing

[david_horsager]: and there’s there’s a whole lot more. I. I’m reading through that part of

[david_horsager]: the study. What is most important down to least important and funny enough

[david_horsager]: on this list of maybe fifteen items. Is they have a podcast, So I guess uh,

[david_horsager]: we don’t need to worry about that, but it, thank

[aj_vaden]: No,

[david_horsager]: you to all of you that are listening today to the Trusted Leader show And

[david_horsager]: uh, you know it’s This is a super fun to share this truth. Hey, one last, I

[david_horsager]: want to ask you a personal things before we bring this to a close. But one

[david_horsager]: last item that you think might be just important to share from the study And

[david_horsager]: remember to everybody you gave us a special spot. Thank you for that, I put

[david_horsager]: my paper everywhere, David Dot free, brand study dot com, And you can get

[david_horsager]: this whole study. It is fascinating and it’s beautifully done, and in fact,

[david_horsager]: um, when we started doing our study in a new way, we used to trust trends

[david_horsager]: way back and to my grad work. But we also partnered with the same firm, Uh,

[david_horsager]: that you partner with very good friends of ours, center for generational

[david_horsager]: kinetics, who are wonderful people, of course, and dear friends. But um, uh,

[david_horsager]: yours is just it’s not you know. I love about it. It’s not just brilliant,

[david_horsager]: you know work. it’s beautifully laid out. it’s like, Oh, I get it. Oh, wow,

[david_horsager]: I can apply that. so um, thank you for that. Everybody can go find it there.

[david_horsager]: one. just little surprise or nugget. Uh, more from the study.

[aj_vaden]: Oh, titles. I thought this was too fascinating as what titles hold the most

[aj_vaden]: credibility in the marketplace? So when considering how to position yourself and

[aj_vaden]: package yourself in the marketplace, what are the titles that Americans consider

[aj_vaden]: the most credible? And again, I love the ones that completely throw me off because

[aj_vaden]: this was not on my radar and the first one was expert?

[david_horsager]: But can

[aj_vaden]: Are you an expert?

[david_horsager]: everybody call himself and I, Oh want. I’m an expert. You’re an expert. I,

[david_horsager]: we think we’re experts, Certainly atress. but it’s like man, Some of these

[david_horsager]: people can just say whatever right.

[aj_vaden]: Yes, it is so funny because in our company there is this running joke and they

[aj_vaden]: call it a ▁j’s law, Because I say this all the time, and my philosophy is that.

[aj_vaden]: You only have to be an expert if you know more than audience in which you’re

[aj_vaden]: speaking to Right, And I think there’s there’s variations and levels of expertise

[aj_vaden]: right. It’s like I am an expert at changing diapers, like I’ve been like In my up

[aj_vaden]: to my eyeballs in it for five years, Like I, I could teach anyone how to do this

[aj_vaden]: right, But then it’s like you can talk about personal branding. I’m an expert

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: in that, but I also consider myself an expert in sales to other people. Probably,

[aj_vaden]: um, but it’s I think there’s these variations of. you know. it’s like. Would I say

[aj_vaden]: that I’m an expert con compared to a mom who has eight kids. Probably not, but I

[aj_vaden]: am to a new parent,

[david_horsager]: Sure, yeah,

[aj_vaden]: so I think there’s these levels of that, but then the other ones I thought too

[aj_vaden]: were really amazing. I would was C, e o and founder,

[david_horsager]: hm,

[aj_vaden]: so expert, c, e o and founder, And then you know we have a podcast too, so I can

[aj_vaden]: totally dish on the broadcast. But then like the least credible title is host.

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: it’s like host, and these generic titles of. But what again? That goes back to

[aj_vaden]: what people are Li really looking for Is can they trust you

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: Because you know something that they don’t right. That you are a credible source

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: of information and they tie that to. Well, if you’re C e O, you must know

[aj_vaden]: something.

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: If you’re a founder. That meants to me

[david_horsager]: yeah,

[aj_vaden]: you’ve done something. If you’re an expert, you can help. Um. So I think all of

[aj_vaden]: these things is really correlate back to this underlying current of trust.

[david_horsager]: well, I, I appreciate that. I think it is kind of funny the host thing,

[david_horsager]: because you know to me the host, I don’t even think of myself at all like

[david_horsager]: it. It’s been amazing to see how now seventy countries are listening and we,

[david_horsager]: we have uh, this impact it, uh, more of followers than some other names.

[david_horsager]: where anyway we, we’re really grateful for what we’re doing, But this

[david_horsager]: podcasting for the first time, I was on a uh t V interview not very long ago

[david_horsager]: and I got introduced as Um. This, you know, trust expert, author and

[david_horsager]: podcatster and I’m like I’m not a pot. I mean I, I’ve never, even. I’. I

[david_horsager]: certainly don’t think of myself as one, but it has been really fun. The cool

[david_horsager]: thing about it is I learned the most uh, from the great brilliant

[aj_vaden]: Hm.

[david_horsager]: people that I interview and it keeps me fresh in a way beyond reading and

[david_horsager]: research, and um, uh, you know, working in companies and all that. So

[david_horsager]: anyway, I think it is funny cause I kind of kind of cringe when someone

[david_horsager]: called me That be cause. I certainly don’t don’t don’t think of that, but I

[david_horsager]: guess that’s what what we’re doing. sometimes. So the super supervluable

[david_horsager]: research. let’s get back to personal for just a couple seconds. and one is

[david_horsager]: you know what. Outside of all this research, just in your leadership, life

[david_horsager]: or family. what are you learning now?

[aj_vaden]: Oh man, I am. I’ll tell you on a business front, I am obsessed with learning tax

[aj_vaden]: strategy right now, Um, and I, a lot of that came

[david_horsager]: Okay, we need to get more exciting Quicker’re going to lose everybody.

[aj_vaden]: y. I. It is one of the most exciting things that I have learned in a really long

[aj_vaden]: time to go. Oh, man, and I’ll tell you what it was is. I did not trust the

[aj_vaden]: accounting firms that we were using. There was a lack of trust. Why? Because there

[aj_vaden]: was a lack of education that they provided.

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: It’s like, just send me

[david_horsager]: absolute

[aj_vaden]: you stuff and I’ll do it. I’m like No, I don’t. I want to understand. I

[david_horsager]: h.

[aj_vaden]: need you to tell me and it wasn’t happening, And so I started diving into all

[aj_vaden]: these courses and classes and eboos, and reading all these books and it has been

[aj_vaden]: one of the most. I know. It sounds crazy because it seems so boring, but it’s been

[aj_vaden]: one of the most fascinating and invigorating things to go. I understand this to a

[aj_vaden]: way that I now know how to help my own business and my own family, and ways that

[aj_vaden]: even accounting firms weren’t willing to do. And so I think it’s empowering.

[david_horsager]: Wow, I’ll give you a new job. You can come look at our taxes be cause. that

[david_horsager]: is something

[aj_vaden]: It’s been really empowering.

[david_horsager]: I don’t want to be an expert in. I bet.

[aj_vaden]: Well and and it’s and honestly, it’s why I got into

[david_horsager]: Yeah,

[aj_vaden]: it and then I kind of got obsessed with it when I learned that so many other

[aj_vaden]: people who considered themselves professionals in the field. I was bringing ideas

[aj_vaden]: to them that they had never heard, and it was a great reminder to me as like the

[aj_vaden]: day you stop learning is the day you start

[david_horsager]: yes,

[aj_vaden]: dying, and uh, I’ve just, I’ve been infatuated with tax strategy. However boring

[aj_vaden]: that may seem, um,

[david_horsager]: you two two things. In that one one thing, is it. It brought back one of our

[david_horsager]: early piece of research at least a few years ago that basically found Um.

[david_horsager]: mortgage brokers and real estate professionals. Almost nobody goes back to

[david_horsager]: the first one they ever had, unless they were a family and they had to,

[david_horsager]: Because the first experience they had buying a home. They, it was so unclear

[david_horsager]: and they would ask a question and they felt dumbcause. No one would answer

[david_horsager]: that they were. Oh, just sign here, and you feel the first time you buy a

[david_horsager]: home, you feel like you’re signing your life way. You don’t understand it

[david_horsager]: like No, Just, and they kind of rush you off and rush you through it. And

[david_horsager]: the data shows that if you would on that first time home buyer, just spend

[david_horsager]: the time to explain. It helped them understand, go slow and not push you and

[david_horsager]: try to get ten home sold day that

[aj_vaden]: Mhm,

[david_horsager]: they would actually stick with you for the next home. So in to to that very

[david_horsager]: point, hey, I don’t want to. you know. I know we got to land this plane, but

[david_horsager]: I do have to ask because I’m a curious human. What’s one? um, just tax idea

[david_horsager]: that you might have for all of us they would help, especially founders and

[david_horsager]: business owners, like like me, or maybe others listening. one idea.

[aj_vaden]: y ye, if you are an ▁c, make sure that you classify yourself under the one ninety

[aj_vaden]: nine, a classification that allows you to get a twenty percent deduction on all

[aj_vaden]: path through revenue. and it single handed, twenty twenty sa, us eighty thousand

[aj_vaden]: dollars of just making sure that we were classified correctly because our previous

[aj_vaden]: accounts had classified us as consultants. We’re not consultants. That’s not what

[aj_vaden]: we do and we didn’t classify it. So by actually learning what it was and what our

[aj_vaden]: true classification was, which were a training

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: company, that’s what we do. we were able to qualify for the one ninety nine a

[aj_vaden]: deduction, and save us eighty grand

[david_horsager]: Hm, Wow,

[aj_vaden]: in teas. one simple thing, one really simple thing.

[david_horsager]: there you go. now. Yeah, I’d love to hear more, but let’s let’s just add,

[david_horsager]: let let me follow that up with this. I’m a subs. I’m a corporation my

[david_horsager]: company

[aj_vaden]: Uhhuh,

[david_horsager]: is. Does it work this same in a corporation or not

[aj_vaden]: Yes, you can. it’s the one ninety nine A still works for an escort. If you’re a

[aj_vaden]: sea corp, not so

[david_horsager]: right?

[aj_vaden]: much, but if you’re an escorporate, you’ in ▁l, ▁ C, filing as an

[david_horsager]: Mhm,

[aj_vaden]: escorp. Um, it still works. It just depends on how much you’re paying yourself an

[aj_vaden]: ordinary income. Uh, because those will you know, Ba, basically net each other out

[aj_vaden]: depending on how you pay yourself, but yes, I would definitely look into it.

[aj_vaden]: Definitely bring it all to us. I, I am not a C. P. A, I

[david_horsager]: Hey, let’s put all this. this is not. This is not advice. We are going to

[david_horsager]: say this is not right,

[aj_vaden]: take this and then talk to her professional. Um, but yes,

[david_horsager]: but in one podcast, in what pod gas, do you go from family to branding to

[david_horsager]: tax advice? I mean, this is all free of charge, so this is

[aj_vaden]: yes,

[david_horsager]: exciting. I love itj. thank you so much You know. this is the trusted leader

[david_horsager]: show. so we always end with one very specific question. Who is the leader

[david_horsager]: you trust And why?

[aj_vaden]: oh yeah. So I had too, and know I’m really debating in my mind back and forth who

[aj_vaden]: it is. Um, but I’m I’m goingnna go. I’m going to go with her name is Mary Sobin,

[aj_vaden]: and she was an executive at Mcdonalds for a really long time, but then she left

[aj_vaden]: the corporate world, probably about ten years ago and started a performance

[aj_vaden]: consulting and a you know, high, fast paced but high fast paced entrepreneurial

[aj_vaden]: company kind of start up mode. And she works with the c e o’s, and she’s been uh,

[aj_vaden]: my business coach for the last year, and

[aj_vaden]: there’s not a ton of people that I would say, like give it to me straight, and I’d

[aj_vaden]: actually implement it. But I’ll tell you why it’s like she gives me the hard

[aj_vaden]: truth, but always surrounded with this like core reminder of I know who you are.

[aj_vaden]: I know who you are. A ▁j. and this is why I’m giving it to you. And she really

[aj_vaden]: does know who I am, And it’s there’s just very few people in my life that I would

[aj_vaden]: say. whatever you say. I’m going to take it into account and I’m I’m I’m going to

[aj_vaden]: pull something from it. but every single time I meet with her she is pulling

[aj_vaden]: something out that I didn’t say in the conversation, so I know that she’s spending

[aj_vaden]: time on me when I’m not around,

[david_horsager]: Hm.

[aj_vaden]: And that’s one of the things where I. I know that she knows me because she knows

[aj_vaden]: things that I’m doing that I didn’t tell her. And how can she do that? Iss,

[aj_vaden]: Because she’s connected to me on social. She is listening to her podcast. She’s in

[aj_vaden]: touch with my team, but she’s getting to know me on a level

[david_horsager]: Mhm.

[aj_vaden]: where there is you. I see you. I know you. I learned from you. I trust you, but I,

[aj_vaden]: I trust her the most because she gives me the hard truth, but always in a way

[aj_vaden]: that’s

[david_horsager]: Hm,

[aj_vaden]: going to make me better.

[david_horsager]: wonderful. I see you. I know you. what a thing to be able to say about your

[david_horsager]: your team or anybody you serve or your kids, for that matter, getting down

[david_horsager]: on a knee instead of shouting from across the across the family room. A ▁j.

[david_horsager]: I’m looking forward to seeing you and your family in Orlando. We both speak

[david_horsager]: at the same

[aj_vaden]: Yes,

[david_horsager]: event. I will not have my family with. I’ll be a little bit more in and out,

[david_horsager]: But youll have your family with and I think we might uh get to do dinner

[david_horsager]: with some friends briefly before you guys maybe go hit Disney. W. Um.

[aj_vaden]: oh, it’s going to be awesome. We’re going to be Mickey Mouse ears and tow. We’re

[david_horsager]: exactly where where I will not. I will be not headed to Uh Disney at that

[aj_vaden]: ready for it.

[david_horsager]: point, but thank you, and uh, what a. what a wonderful treat to have you on

[david_horsager]: and share with our listeners. You can look at the show. Out’s trusted Leader

[david_horsager]: show Dot com for everything we talked about, Remember Brand Builders Group

[david_horsager]: Dot Com. This has been the trusted leader show Until next time, Stay

[david_horsager]: trusted.