David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager I have a special authentic guest she’s in New Zealand today welcome to the show Juliet Funt.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thank you so much for having me.

David Horsager: Oh, this is gonna be great and people are going to learn so much you’re gonna have takeaways, but I want to just tell just a little bit about you.

David Horsager: She is Juliet is CEO of the Juliet front group she has spoken around the world she’s known as the tough love advisor to fortune 500 companies she’s worked with everything from.

David Horsager: costco to Pepsi to Nike to wells fargo to national geographic and espn and way more, and you know i’m excited she’s an author of a fantastic new book we’re going to talk about it, but you know, one more time Thank you so much for being here, I can’t wait to get into this together.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Thanks it’s gonna be awesome.

David Horsager: Well before we get into all that you’ve done, what are you doing right now, what are you thinking about these days.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I that’s my favorite question, right now, because we are doing the best new way of working in.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I can’t stop talking about it so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For our company, we have decided to be the year of know new things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we are doing nothing new were creating know new products, we are building new new partnerships, we are finessing know new markets, we are hiring no new teams.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because the last 18 months we just been we just have built so much, and we have all this wonderful stuff and we want to spread it in the world, before we build anything new, and I have to tell you that first we did this, we said Okay, this is a good idea.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then the X to see of this idea has built every single time I say a year, a year all we’re going to do is make the things we already have.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little bit better get them out a little further relax and and I feel like it’s turning into a template I just have to discipline myself that we don’t decide that 2023 needs to be the second year of no new thing.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So awesome stay the way you are right.

David Horsager: yeah oh that’s fun well I love it, I think we should dig right in I have so many things I want to ask you.

David Horsager: And we’ve even talked about offline personally we’re both entrepreneurs, we both lead our teams and companies and we try to.

David Horsager: make an impact in the world, but let’s let’s jump in a little bit to your new book because it’s really cool it’s called a minute to think people can get it anywhere we’ll put it in the show notes trusted leader show.com and everywhere, you can find Juliet.

David Horsager: But let’s talk about this idea to start with about you know you talk about space and oxygen to fuel the fire tell us about it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s the foundational metaphor of the book and of everything that we do so, the idea is if you’re building a fire.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You need the right ingredients it’s clear that you need something drying crumbly newspaper pine needles, you have to have good wood i’ve learned softwood to catch quick and hardwood to burn long is the perfect combination.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But there is an ingredient that if missed will absolutely sabotage every effort that you make to turn a spark into a beautiful blaze, and that is, you must add space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There must be oxygenate eating passages in between those materials for the feeding of the fire to occur and.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The truth is that this is exactly the same for us and our minds and creativity and ideas and work, we need space around them.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For that oxygen eating power to infuse the spark and make it into a blaze, but it is what we forget it is what we’re chronically missing and, in my opinion that space is the most endangered element now of modern work.

David Horsager: that’s so interesting in the first book my first book trust edge, I wrote about and really what this is inspired by my wife give full credit, but we talked about how music is nothing without the rest.

David Horsager: Right it doesn’t sound beautiful you if you just had all the sounds of it kind of just be noise.

David Horsager: But the rest makes it beautiful and you know we talked about how people are even after this or in the process of of the change of the pandemic, people are like ready to get out ready to get out and not even pausing to think, but what did I learn that I could think about a head, you know.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For the future, I think a pause.

David Horsager: Even macro would be valuable, but let’s talk about this, because you know you’ve been challenged plenty of times and I know you’re tough and can handle it.

David Horsager: You got it.

David Horsager: you’ve got the CEO sitting there saying yes, but I need my people to work more I need to, we need to get more done, we need we had quarterly earnings, we got this is you got it that issue, what do you mean you’re going to come in and tell my people, we need more space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The misconception of white space actually one of the there’s about three main misconceptions of this open time at work that’s called white space, the interstitial interlaced beautiful thoughtful time and one of the biggest misconceptions is it, it is only for rest.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think that space is only for rest, if you think that everyone’s just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: drooling with their you know staring out a window recuperating, then I can understand as a leader, where you wouldn’t want that to be the dominant usage of space within the work day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It is absolutely critical when 52% of people are burnt out and when we have so much shame around rest and refueling We absolutely need some of it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the truth is it’s only 25% one quarter of the way that smart people use space at work.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Space is also where strategy occurs it’s where innovation, creativity blossom from inception to true idea it’s where.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: leaders can be objective and step back and look from a distance at something that they’re about to execute and see if it has validity so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you do understand that space is also what facilitates thinking and the thinking is time well spent.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You begin to disconnect from that all isn’t this just a soft skill soft thing that my people don’t need misconception, because without it your ideas your strategy your planning are all threatened because they’re going to be thin and unconsidered.

David Horsager: So let’s before I get into a tip with that, how do I tell if i’m burnt out, you said 52% of people are how, how do I even know if my people are burned out.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If Well, yes, two different questions you said how do I know if i’m burnt out and how do I know if my people are burned down so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The question of Am I burnt out personally individually, is an interesting one, because we spent a lot of time trying to decide if the label formally should stick to us or not.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But to me it doesn’t matter if you have crossed the invisible line between wicked fried and technically burnt it doesn’t matter if you are burned, what matters is that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re even asking the question, I wonder if i’m burnt out it’s kind of like I wonder if i’m an alcoholic I want you know.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s something that is stimulating some pain some awareness some objectivity about your own day that is stimulating the question.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is sufficient, it means you’re fried you’re exhausted, you probably used adrenaline and courage to push past levels of.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You know earnest work that would have been sufficient a long time ago, so if you are feeling that, then there are things that you can do, and we can go into those organizationally if my people are burnt out that’s a different question.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And i’m sure you’ve heard of the term skip level meeting, where the big boss skips their direct reports, and then has a meeting with the direct reports direct reports that’s called a skip Level Meeting.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But we like skip levels meetings plural, I would like the big boss to go have lunch with people five rungs down in the organization or have a virtual meeting, if you can’t and say just tell me.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What does it feel like what’s driving you crazy, what are you pretending is okay that’s really completely not okay.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Are you thinking of leaving, why are you thinking of leaving the great resignation we’re only seeing people from their backsides as they’re leaving we got to get ahead of that so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The the idea of leaders, using the new intimacy of coven this way that we’ve all become more real with each other.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: To go in there and say i’m going to make a vulnerable admission here’s where i’m struggling here’s where i’m confused here’s where it’s been hard for me, what about you, what about you and opening that doorway that’s, the only way you’re ever going to know.

David Horsager: that’s brilliant What about how, how are you doing this like Look how do you keep the white space you’re running a company you’re putting out some amazing work you’re.

David Horsager: you’re running you’ve got your family you get your life you’re traveling you’re in New Zealand you’re back in the US in a month, I mean what, how do you, maybe even just jumping into some tips and takeaways that we can all use, but how do you do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the most important piece of white space for me is the very first thing in the morning and everybody can just start here, this is the easiest way to start make sure you have a minute to think between opening your eyes and getting out of bed.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s such a simple and beautiful interval to just pause and use what we call a strategic pause.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What kind of days is going to be, what do I need to shake off from yesterday, or from a bad dream what anxiety is just waking up right with me because it’s been such a difficult time that I need to take a breath and let go and how do I want to show up today.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then maybe another SIP at your desk and then maybe through the course of the day, you take advantage of forced white space that is thrown upon you, maybe that rainbow spinning ball can be your friend, instead of your enemy or you’re waiting in line.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Instead of reaching for the phone start realizing that there are a lot of times, where we’re gifted space.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we’re waiting or we’re thinking and if we don’t pick up that phone to fill it spaces ours for the taking now in terms of a specific tool this all is training wheels that i’ve just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: described to you to get you to the basic starter tool, called the wedge.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the wedge for most of your audio listeners are not going to see me i’m making a triangle upward with my fingers and i’m pointing upward with this wedge, I want you to imagine.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A little wedge of open time unscheduled fluid open time inserted in between two activities that previously would have been connected.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this is to open up things that would have been touching between a meeting in a meeting between getting a bad email and responding quickly.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Between Oh, I have an idea and i’m going to execute on that idea just little wedges inserted an opening and what happens is we begin to have this.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interstitial space, not the big scary 30 minute executive block of white space one hour executive block of totally unattainable white space three seconds eight seconds a minute and a half five minutes and now.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There starts to be a little bit of oxygen in the system and that’s where we begin.

David Horsager: I remember you speaking when I was listening to you at one point at least even kind of making the recommendation I think this was more recently, because, with all the zoom meetings even saying something about between zoom meetings you recommend 10 minutes is that right.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well there’s a card no rule and then you can design a custom application of it so here’s the cardinal rule.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Never let the colors touch on your meeting calendar, I want to see a nice stripy calendar from this day forward for every single one of your listeners if it’s 510 15 minutes, whatever it is, when the colors don’t touch the day can have some oxygenation.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In and as you’re going back to the office if you’re used to top of the hour to top of the hour.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: you’re now you’re going to have to move to a different room you’ve we’ve forgotten how to you know how that we’re not going to be clicking on and off, so we we start with those stripes and then, if you like, we can break down what occurs inside.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Each stripe to really utilize it properly, should we go there.

David Horsager: let’s do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Okay, because it’s very important when you have a stripe of white space, it is not intended to just you know go on tick tock that’s not the point of the time.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The point of the time is to do three things that really, really start to change the nature of this maniacal workplace you look backward.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: You look within and you look forward so in a typical slice of white let’s say we’re going to do 10 minutes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about the first three minutes should be looking back, who did I just talked to in the last meeting Do I need to make a note enter something send a calendar invite or do I just need to think.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: about how did that really go what could I have done a little bit better with David.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Then look within time to check into the human being, am I hungry Do I need to close my eyes for 30 seconds I do, I have to get ahead of a bio break before the next meeting.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we look forward, the most important part for business and sales and building relationships, who am I about to sit with.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: What human being is going to bop into that waiting room in three to four minutes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Who do I need to be for them, because we all have different aspects different colors of our personality that we bring to light, with different people more casual more serious more data filled.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then, what do they need, what do they want and how can I serve them, and so, when you do that look back look within and look forward wow do you show up as a different human being to that next meeting.

David Horsager: About a way to be more present wow I love it so any any other tips on meetings, I want to ask you about that you know.

David Horsager: i’ve heard you speak and seeing some of your writing on to big doors for people I think listening, and these are getting into the weeds here we can talk to so many things to Juliet should we get we’ve got we need like five episodes but but.

David Horsager: Face meetings and emails are our thorns for a lot of the people right so let’s let’s talk a little bit more is there anything else with meetings that we should think about as far as creating healthy white space or better meetings.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So much yeah we could do about five let’s let’s think about this guy I met named Devon Devon is a senior executive he’s a definite big shot at a large company told me the story when we were writing the book he said.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was sitting in a meeting sequence large accounting firm.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For meetings in the course of a day that we’re all the same presentation, they were these upward approval cycles, where you convince the wrong, and then the next rung in the next right next.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He only needed to be in the last meeting he’s the big shot, but they begged him to give the facetime of you know just sitting in the other ones, and by the fourth meeting he was reciting the deck he was mouthing the words he knew this content so well.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: There was no tactical reason for him to sit in any of those other meetings, he knew he was wasting his time sitting in those other meetings, he was sneaking peaks in his phone trying to not be bored.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But even with his power and he even with his authority it never even occurred to him to opt out.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And if you think about the concept of opting out if Devon can’t do it, I promise you most of people sitting at their desk without that kind of agency can’t do it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we have an entire culture of people who never even think about tiptoeing into the world of I don’t think i’ll be adding value at this meeting i’d like to decline.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, if you’re going to have the colors not touching as a beginning, we also want to have some places where there are no meeting, so we can think and strategize and right and be creative and go deeper and build and in order for that to happen, there has to be.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Control at two junctures, we have to be able to control, who we invite and we have to be able to control what we accept and for most people it’s the second one, I mentioned that is the scariest.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: opting out is very intimidating but it’s an absolute necessity in the world of work that we’re in, and so the safest way to get used to it is to find what I call a nobody.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: This is a power that you say i’m thinking of saying no to this thing can I talk through the way that i’m going to say no to see if it sounds good, to you, does it sound authoritative or high maintenance or.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or receivable to the person that i’m about to say do, and you can practice saying no to meetings you can even practice saying no to projects are certain client demands.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And we need this kind of scaffolding support because we’re in a culture of yes we’re in a culture of I win points by being the most miserable in some ways, you know the Olympics of pain that we’re all showing off.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so, learning how to opt out, and then having the support of a nobody or two really important techniques.

David Horsager: The Olympics of pain.

David Horsager: Showing off it’s.

David Horsager: Totally true we don’t need to get medals in that.

David Horsager: i’ve often said, the most difficult word for the most important word for leaders is not yes, as many think it is actually know the ability to say no, creates a space for the best right so saying no to good saying no to this say no.

David Horsager: But I can tell you, even as you say it i’m thinking juliet’s talking to me.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Well, you asked how.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh sorry go ahead.

David Horsager: No, I just have an issue myself saying an owner right to certain things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And then we talked I was just that was a when I was gonna say is We talked to the beginning about our keynote schedules and you said something like I do 100 keynotes and I.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And, and you, and I would do one I try, for one, a month is my goal if I can but.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Everybody has it’s probably one of the ways that I do protect white space, you asked me how I protect mine is I think my boundaries have gotten really, really strong.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I definitely have my weak or spots my tech addicted nature pulls me too quickly into my technology in those in those moments.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it once you start saying no and once you start seeing the benefit the incredible benefit they’ll see in the book a tool, called the hourglass, which is much too complicated for us to break down.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: On a show that’s audio only, but there are techniques that will make saying no easier, the first time and then like riding a bike and then easier, the next time and even easier and even easier, we just need to build the muscle.

David Horsager: let’s jump into it one of those challenges, and I will say this to my benefit I the tech addiction is not my my my pain point I run from it all the time when I probably should check it.

David Horsager: But it is we all have different different challenges and reasons and whatnot but let’s talk about this this tech piece of email because you’ve given some great tips and ideas and how we tame even as you’re talking about in the in the book defeating the email beast.

David Horsager: And what are some tips and takeaways we can think about as far as taming that email beast but not expensive relationships that we need to keep.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Sure, the philosophy is more important than the rules everybody wants to start with rules, we really need to start it’s like holding a Rosary when you don’t have a religion it’s backwards it’s the wrong way to start the philosophy is one of.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: less emotional connection to email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can start releasing emotionally reminds me of the story in the book that I love about this guy named Maurice he had this really relaxed quality about email, even though.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: He was a middle manager in a car company and middle managers usually get really, really hooked because they feel that pressure from both sides, I asked him how he became so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In control and he said that when he was young, and he was selling cars, he was on the floor, and they would get these.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Manila envelopes on Monday and Friday, this is pre email, and it would have all the memos and xeroxes and updates and things that company thought he should read.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he read the Wednesday one like a good little boy, but then by Friday he hadn’t even gotten through and he get the Friday one, and then they would start stacking up and then by Wednesday he’s still etc.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So we went to this guy Maurice old guy on the team, what do you do and Maurice just smiled and he said come with me and he walked him to the parking lot.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he opened the trunk of his car and revealed exactly three things a case of water, a jack and a giant box of unopened Manila envelopes.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And he said I put the date on and I throw it in here if nobody asked me about anything in three months I throw it away.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I tell this story in corporations people get a little ruffled because they think i’m.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: minimizing the importance of all the stuff coming from the corporate mothership but the truth is that a lot of it is over communication.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when we can just sort of relax our relationship with how important our email is then then next we go okay now let’s try some tools.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: interval checking is a dominant tool for every smart person, I know, which means you choose when to touch it once an hour at mealtimes morning and evening some some form of interval.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The more nuanced tool that we really put our whole company around when it comes to email is called the yellow list the idea of a yellow list is that you need a repository for things that you thought belonged in email, but really don’t.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And when you’re about to send an email what we teach is that you should go first through the decision tree of how time sensitive it is.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If the thing, even you’re literally poised about to type and you stop and you say first of all, is this time sensitive, because if it’s truly time sensitive.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: It should not be in a digital medium, it should be in a phone call or I guess a text is digital but an immediate frame, not an asynchronous medium.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Now we’ve decided it’s not time sensitive you’re about to send it The next question is, should it be an email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Is there a reason is this email is this communication email ish does it have an attachment of forward a copy a link, something that lives inside the world of email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If not, most of the time, instead, you can put it on a yellow list, and what that is is just a document you keep for everybody, you relate with frequently and let’s say I have a David yellow list and I haven’t jake yellow list.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If I can just put it on my yellow list i’m just going to talk about it with you later so i’m going to go Oh, I really, really wanted to ask David about the thing about willow creek and then I go no I just put on the yellow list.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: boom boom boom gets a little longer, eventually, maybe once a week I call you hey David can we have a yellow list debrief I guess my phone is out of date i’ve got my.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: um.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I, and then we just go through it verbally no threads were created know cc’s wherever added, you can see, see someone on a conversation big bonus.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And you just boom boom boom boom move through it verbally.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Other bonuses you get to have three dimensional communication, which means that if we want to talk about saying it’s nuanced or difficult or creative.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: we’re going to talk through it in a much more thorough way being able to speak directly to each other.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So this yellow list idea is absolutely at the core of the way we work, it can transform the amount of cumulative email that you get yes caveat some things need to be in writing legal etc, but it’s by far the exception, not the rule.

David Horsager: I love it.

David Horsager: let’s go one more step here, because you get into elevating communication tell us a bit of what how the you know how the best teams talk.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The best teams know that you match the medium with the message we just kind of talked about it a little bit there are two dimensional messages and there are three dimensional messages.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: A two dimensional message is static or factor of inner simple.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: meet me at three o’clock did you send the report what day is that special off site that’s two dimensional.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Three dimensional is i’m a little upset with the way you behaved in front of that client or I have a fantastic idea for a new product Those are three dimensional topics that rich and creative and challenging.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: They belong in three dimensional mediums so 2d belongs in email text chats 3D belongs in face to face meetings phone calls video conferences.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When we have the right medium for the right message we work far faster and far easier and when we don’t, we have to prices that we pay.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take 2d content short factor of in content and you shove, it into a 3D medium that’s when you waste time that’s when you’re sitting in a meeting going, this could have been a memo right that’s that old mug i’m sitting in another meeting that could have been an email.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you take the other direction, and you take three dimensional content you try to shove, it into a 2d medium.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: that’s when you compromise richness and the reason that you get email threads that are 35 volleys long is because someone’s trying to work out the nuance of something difficult in a completely flat medium that doesn’t support it.

David Horsager: Good good tips what let’s jump back before we go into you as a leader, which i’m excited about and a few personal ideas with this limited time that we have let’s jump back for a moment to the book.

David Horsager: A one minute, a minute to think everybody a minute to think we’ll put everything in the show notes at trusted leader show calm, but anything else you think Oh, maybe this part doesn’t get enough attention, or some surprise, or something that’s like just.

David Horsager: Maybe a little interesting in the book that we should.

David Horsager: You know there’s so much here a lot that we couldn’t cover it like you said, the hourglass and so much great stuff everybody needs to get the book.

David Horsager: By the way, subtitle reclaim your creativity conquer reclaim creativity conquer business and do your best work and who doesn’t want to do that, but any little you know subtleties before we move on.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah you’re letting me, you are getting me out some of my children that don’t get in the spotlight so that’s so super fun.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: let’s talk about phone narration, which is, I think one of the LIFE changing tools that’s a little bit buried underneath some of the business stuff.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When people take out their phone in front of us it is so common now for them to just disappear into the phone that we have a kind of separation anxiety.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That is getting worse and worse and worse, where we’re with a human being, and this has happened to me during client meetings where someone takes out a phone.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And they start doing something I have no idea what they’re doing I don’t know if they’re doing something related to something that i’ve asked them or if they just have spaced out into their seductive technology.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: We of course do this with our children to where we’re sitting in a catatonic state in front of them and they don’t know where we’ve gone and they don’t know when we’ll be back.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the simple loving and also very professional thing to do is to narrate where you’re going and when you’ll be back so if you’re in a business context you can say, let me just look up that regional manager Stat you just asked about.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: or i’m just going to check my flights in Google it’s a wonderful thing.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: If you’re at home, you say to your child i’m just going to pick up the phone i’m just checking to see the maps to the lake that we’re going to or let me see if grandma’s available for tomorrow.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And by narrating by the simple act of narrating you’ve removed that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: mystery of did my loved one slash business colleague just evaporate in front of my eyes, or are they actually still with me in the room.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And the funnest thing about this is, if you do it with kids and family, they will very, very quickly, start catching you and say, could you please narrate when you’re not.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When you’re not doing it.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because, then they get annoyed when you disappear so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I love that technique, I would like to do a.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: get a giant hippie bus and travel the country on a phone narration proselytizing journey, because I think it would just make so much of a.

David Horsager: Difference so much I can just see how that would mean so much, I remember this from you from before from you.

David Horsager: Are.

David Horsager: Talking about this or reading about it because it meant so much to me thinking about it so great stuff so let’s let’s let’s talk about you so.

David Horsager: You know Okay, here we are you’re an advisor to many senior leaders you’re on the platform, I think the first time I saw you was quite a long time ago, actually was.

David Horsager: At is a which is basically the presidents of learning organization.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Oh yeah.

David Horsager: And so we’re in a fairly intimate setting with just CEOs and presidents of learning organizations, but you’ve come a long way you’ve impacted many.

David Horsager: You know something we talked about here a lot is if you’re leading others, you know we got to think about leading our self.

David Horsager: Right, what are you doing to lead yourself, maybe it’s physically maybe it’s spiritually maybe it’s marital here at home, but what are you doing so that you can serve others well.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: there’s a productivity guy named Mike varney who used an analogy last week that I love so much he said the day should be like doing a jigsaw puzzle, and you do the edges, first in your work in from there.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I just thought that was such a beautiful way of describing routines and the importance of routines so like most people I have morning routines that involve meditation for me i’m the my new thing is the coach the ice cold showers i’ve been trying them up to three minutes of.

David Horsager: Our quarter.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: how’s that going shower it is actually incredibly focusing and feel good after you get out I i’ve been very, very surprised at how much you you look forward to it after a certain point, not the during.

David Horsager: The day, not the two bays during but everybody knows, for you just give kind of a clue of what this is yes, the Wim hof cold.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: cold shower.

David Horsager: Yes, so you.

David Horsager: really are cleaning and.

David Horsager: Everything in a warm shower you’re.

David Horsager: washed off or whatever you want to do.

David Horsager: It might do if you did exercise before, and then you turn it to as cold, as it will go.

David Horsager: and see how long you last is that your your deal.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: yeah i’m not i’m doing three minutes and that’s long enough for now, but it’s supposed to be really wonderful for immune system and metabolism and all sorts of other things.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But it is incredibly intensely focusing and that’s the part that I like about it, so I believe that TIM ferriss line sees the morning seize the day i’m an intense morning person, so I like to set things up.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Make the bed meditate get my ducks in order have some aspect of white space, even if it’s just a minute to think about the day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Where I and many others, I think, are sloppier is that closing part of the puzzle if my party says you work in from both edges, I think i’m just working from the Left.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’ve been in a lot of pondering about what are the closing rituals Mike.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Mike hi it has some wonderful closing rituals and and my closing rituals usually my child interrupts me when they can hear that the last phone call is over and that’s not the closing ritual that I really want.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But the one that i’m pretty good at, and the one that we teach and I love is called trap yourself in a promise.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it’s just the most simple way of putting it into work when you walk out in front of whoever you live with just say it out loud and I do this pretty much every day, well done for the day.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And as soon as i’ve said or done for the day little ears and husband ears have heard that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And even if you live alone, you can text a boundary buddy or you can say it out loud, for your own ears to hear, and now I have made a line in the sand.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Because if I just walk right back in and take another SIP of the laptop everybody’s watching and it’s a really nice way of protecting myself from those tendencies to want to do more and want to work more.

David Horsager: Speaking of that how are you, you know in this environment and you do talk about technology and some of the you know challenges and different way, how are you leading your kids tell us about your family, first of all, husband, how many kids.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I have three boys are 11 1315.

David Horsager: Right and so they’re.

David Horsager: technology’s of.

David Horsager: boys, something that we have to deal with with our kids that our parents didn’t have to deal with right So how are you guiding them in some of these things as far as white space and focus and um well roundedness.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The word interstitial is when I use a lot in my work constantly convincing people that the interstitial use of space can be incredibly profitable and beneficial.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But in my home the word interstitial has a different meaning because that’s the primary directive that I give my children is to avoid their screens interstitial.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: it’s not that my kids don’t watch videos or do a movie or do things that are screen based, but what we’re trying to do is.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: compartmentalize the use, so you take out an iPad you sit down and you use it for some period of time, as opposed to.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I eat a grape Oh, I just want to look something up I walk outside wait a second, I just want to see that D amp D Stat and that interstitial use of I touched it put it down gets to that time confetti that we’re all so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: worried about now I think that’s Adam grants wonderful line about time confetti.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So i’ve picked my battles over the years, we used to be a very i’ve used I used to be more militant about screen stuff when they were littler and now I understand that people have to participate in the world.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But i’m always trying to get them to put it in a bucket a little compartment an hour at a time 15 minutes at a time and then, can you put it away we do put those things away at around six o’clock so that at around 601 everybody’s eyes, clear and they look around, I go wow a family.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: hey and therefore we’re forced to interact in a different flavor in the last couple hours of the day.

David Horsager: How are you staying you know you’re leading others and I noticed like a great leader you’re quoting Adam grant and you talked about some others.

David Horsager: Earlier, because you’re a continual learner but how are you like, is there a consistent routine to staying fresh and relevant and capable and competent and.

David Horsager: Continually learning is there a process there or you’re reading you’re you’re studying or how are, how is it that you have you know, keep in your mind putting good inputs in.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: relationships and deadlines, would be the two things that come to mind in building relationships, I learned a lot just from if i’m really curious about my clients if i’m really curious about how they feel they’re leading me to have.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Two places where they have pain and I need to go find them answers and what was the second one, I said relationships in.

David Horsager: lines which I think no one’s ever said this.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Before yeah that, for me, I need to reach down in the well and find something new every two weeks, when I right, so I have a blog that’s in every two week blog and I have tons and tons of content that we put out so in content creation.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My dad used to say they’ll milk the cow, you know you put it there and something’s going to come out and so there’s times, where I sit down, I have 11 different video scripts to write or two blog posts, and then I have to start.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: musing on the Internet, finding out what’s going on finding out what’s current and what’s fresh and and then audio books or just always happening in a secondary.

David Horsager: What.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: was the one that’s my perfect what’s it what.

David Horsager: what’s the favorite audio book that you’ve listened to lately.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For development i’m in love with carrie new Hoff stuff now with at your best, and I love the energy calendar, he has this wonderful calendar, where you.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Basically, decide that there are green areas where you’re going to be at your best energy red and yellow based on your internal clock.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: My green areas are early in the morning, and so I shouldn’t put.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Difficult or challenging things in the afternoon because i’m only turned on on green in the mornings just a wonderful helpful model.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But then whenever anybody asks about books, I always have to talk about fiction, because I believe fiction to be one of the very necessary food groups of a sane life.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And so i’m constantly advocating for fiction because it’s it’s an activity that I consider white space adjacent.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: That, if you have enough space in your personal life, you can get drawn into a beautiful book or a beautiful hobby and that’s a very, very important part of refueling and then coming back the next day full.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: So the current fiction that i’m in love with i’m reading Prince of tides, which I somehow missed and never read and it’s it’s insane it’s like the Creme brulee of writing it’s just me every sentence is so yummy.

David Horsager: Oh there’s so many more questions i’ve only gotten to a few of like what I was thinking about.

David Horsager: let’s go here, what about you what’s your biggest hope for the future, your business your life what’s something you’re thinking about maybe it’s bucket list, but maybe it’s a hope for the future either of your work, your family or your life.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: When I was going to guess I don’t know mid 20s I remember trying to figure out what I wanted to do for a living and I opened up a newspaper and I thought I think I want to be a social worker.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I remember very distinctly sitting in this apartment and seeing that a social worker made $8 an hour.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And it doesn’t feel like the most prideful story because there’s people whose passion to serve has overwritten that financial concern but mine didn’t and I remember thinking I don’t really know if I can do that I don’t really know if I could.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: make my life work on that and i’m I followed many other paths, but there was something about.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: The original image of a social worker that would have been right for me sitting with one human being, at a time.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Hearing their story meeting with them repeatedly going deep in their world and then seeing them change and one of the problems of being.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: a really big keynoter on these giant stages of 12,000 people or having a company, where you just get reports about the way that you’re helping people as I do feel divorced.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: In a way, that’s painful for me from that social worker feeling and I don’t really know how to get it back and so.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: i’m trying to figure out what does it look like to blend the success that we’ve had.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: With getting me someplace it’s even through the foundation that we’re building but getting me someplace where I see regular people in a chair across from me in the flesh.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: And I help them and I hear them and I honestly don’t know how that’s going to look but it’s missing for me, I think I was right at 21 in some ways, about that.

David Horsager: I think there’s something interesting I was walking with a mentor of mind in the middle of the.

David Horsager: pandemic and it was kind of like i’m i’m i’m asking him I get you know we’re talking through he’s someone who’s in the White House a lot he’s he keeps below the radar people ask for advice from him he’s 20 years you know my senior he.

David Horsager: For free he doesn’t ever take a paycheck, by the way, from any way presidents of countries or whatever he doesn’t whether it needs to or not he just he wants to be.

David Horsager: He but he’s invited to advise many and I was fortunate you happen to be at the College, I was at university.

David Horsager: For the very short time that I happened to be there just the four years I was there, and he kind of took me under his wing, you know, whatever that was 30 years ago 27 years ago.

David Horsager: And we’ve stayed friends he’s still definitely a friend and a mentor.

David Horsager: But he said something as We walked in I was thinking you know talking through Am I gonna have to let people go, am I gonna do these things in the pandemic that we didn’t know we were going to do with our business, unfortunately.

David Horsager: Many things turned out better than we ever might have dreamed at the time, but he said something he said, David.

David Horsager: Small is beautiful.

David Horsager: And it’s going to be more beautiful and he said I could see you, and he named someone that we would all know and I don’t I don’t think I should do that right here, but basically said you speak.

David Horsager: To thousands of people and and do all these kind of things, and of course out of the Institute, we do research and we certified people and we.

David Horsager: You know, do consulting with the enterprise trust index, and all those things but me commonly i’m the you know i’m on the.

David Horsager: platform or i’m in the boardroom or i’m on the executive day and he said he named somebody.

David Horsager: That only speaks six times a year now, and he used to speak to thousands and thousands and thousands at a time, and yet he makes more frankly money and impact.

David Horsager: Basically, by kind of mentoring or co co co mentoring this group of about six to 10 and senior senior leaders that many people have heard of on the show and so.

David Horsager: i’ve been thinking about the same thing, so I just really appreciate it we’re calling it the trust table.

David Horsager: And another phase, for me, I do actually like to speak, I like to inspire like to shift thinking I don’t just like that do I like to have a place where people go after that to have long term reinforcement and change and that’s.

David Horsager: Our certification and everything, but I think for me personally, this trust table idea you just ignited it and I just I wasn’t gonna talk about this, but i’ve been thinking about it and it’s we’re similar in that, where I I love that ongoing long term smaller relationship of change.

David Horsager: can happen so for whatever it’s worth one other thing came to mind, not to jump back on me, but you talked about like commitments some and how you, you say you know done for the day and how that kind of gives public accountability, so you may not have heard this, but you know I am.

David Horsager: In a time when I didn’t necessarily have that much money over a decade ago I said publicly if i’m not 50 pounds less or if i’m not my high school weight by May 1 of that year i’ll give you each give my staff 20 $500.

David Horsager: So I said this publicly, not knowing exactly how it was going to do it, but knowing that money it frankly was so important for me then there’s no way I wouldn’t let that you know figure it out and that commitment, I came in at you know I came in at three pounds less than I had.

David Horsager: started the last week right.

David Horsager: yeah I was.

David Horsager: A little bit again so interestingly enough, my team knows that I just made a commitment.

David Horsager: I have to get $5,000 to somebody if i’m not because i’d gone just not like that, but gone up a little bit again.

David Horsager: and knowing, I want to be back to that lean because I feel better and what when me if I make a commitment out loud, the big like I have to keep it, and so I have to figure out how to you know that that last part, by the way, is the toughest part but all i’m saying is that public commitment.

David Horsager: Whether it’s for space with your family.

David Horsager: Which is important done for the day or i’m going to do this, of course, it only works if you’re the kind of person that will keep the commitment or or fields responsibility for that for strengths Finder my main one is responsibility.

David Horsager: I know people that have made that commitment back to me saying I love that idea and they’ve never you know they haven’t said, a thing, and of course I haven’t haven’t.

David Horsager: It hasn’t met much but anyway i’ve really enjoyed this and Juliet you know I really appreciate the good you’ve brought to the world and.

David Horsager: from afar, even hearing speaking, and also in some ways aligned on this journey to to speak train equip coach consult and really hopefully move people toward better and so where can everybody find out more about you there’s a whole lot more to what you’re doing.

David Horsager: At sure yet fun group.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Juliet fun calm is a website and they can go there, they can get the first chapter of the book for free at the top of the homepage or they can also subscribe to my linkedin newsletter, which is that every other week blog.

David Horsager: perfect and you can find out a whole lot more we’ll put that all in the show notes last question, it is the trusted leader show who’s the Leader you trust and why.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: Ah, you know it’s funny I always, I think I think of people in a lot of different categories and leader is never one of them my head goes i’ve keynoter friends author friends teacher friends trainer friends consultant friends.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: But I think Craig Rochelle is the one that comes to mind who’s a mutual guy that we know from glm he’s a pastor and also leadership expert and he just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I think that when a leader is somebody that you trust you feel really safe for reasons that you can’t explain you just.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: I just feel great I can be around him and be completely myself raw vulnerable good broken.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: fancy not fancy that just wonderful sense, and I think he’s just one of the most brilliant minds he’s really making this crossover now from faith based focus to a dual focus of faith and corporate and he’s going to be huge he’s brilliant yeah.

David Horsager: And what you said, I think, maybe the first word that comes to mind for me with him is authentic and willing to be vulnerable.

David Horsager: willing to share.

David Horsager: hey i’ve struggled to i’ve i’m trying to lead at home at work executive So yes, great example, thank you for.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: For sharing that, thank you for.

David Horsager: Sharing your time and mind and everything else with us, and thanks for being my friend that.

Juliet Funt // Juliet Funt Group: is great to be here.

David Horsager: Yes, thank you that’s the trusted leader show for this time until next time stay trusted.