David Horsager: Welcome to the trusted leader show it’s David Horsager and I have an expert of experts with us today hey welcome Dr Jeffrey Magee.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you, Sir good to see you again appreciate the opportunity, just to sit down and visit with you.

David Horsager: hey I really appreciate this you know, there was something when we got to know each other in in an association in our industry.

David Horsager: You know I I signed up for something I have not signed up for since i’ve been there every year, probably was probably maybe 20 years ago, but there was something called.

David Horsager: table with the experts or listen to an expert or something so I signed up for this thing I could be in a round table, you know with an expert and the expert at my table was.

David Horsager: Dr Jeffrey mcgee and I I I will never forget that so just a little bit about him he’s a.

David Horsager: Leading leadership and marketing strategist he’s the author of more than 20 books some of his latest books trajectory Code, the managerial leadership Bible.

David Horsager: 20 more books than that he is the publisher of performance, the magazine thanks for.

David Horsager: spotlighting me, sometimes in there in our work and he has a host of credentials credentials, but.

David Horsager: he’s really a leader of leaders and an expert thought leader in many of these spaces, you and I agree on this, like we like research based we don’t want cheesy motivation and yet we want to make it simple and usable tomorrow morning, so it can make a difference, and so I appreciate that.

David Horsager: about you.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you very much appreciate it.

David Horsager: Well, like you know, give us a little start here before we get into what what are a couple things not many people know about Dr Jeffrey mcgee.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I don’t know that’s a great question that’s raised on a farm in Colorado i’ve.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: been on air force one with President Reagan I was the last person to interview Dr seuss before he passed away and I went to College as an athlete and quickly realized.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Being a high school athlete is different than being with a real athletes and at the backup and say okay what’s my next career path.

David Horsager: I like that.

David Horsager: Oh that’s fun what was some you know we’re on the dress leader show we get we can’t let that go What was it like being with President Reagan.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So in 1984 I worked for a publication on the east coast and gave me a chance to step outside of the box of normal journalism to look for unique people.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And the approach on that one was actually at the time the pilot of air force one.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Was blood brother relative to the gentleman who is responsible for the secret service detail, protecting the presence that was my angle.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We were at the White House shooting some pictures, the president came in saw his pilot they’re kind of what that was weird was my pilot at the White House.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: came over you know you kind of hard to say no, you can’t walk over he’s going to come over, and so it was very are experiencing basically great person very approachable very magnetic.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Just instantly you were at ease in his face obviously your son, but he so it was a phenomenal experience brilliant gentlemen.

David Horsager: yeah wow and and tell me something, you know as long as you said, I wasn’t going to go here, but you know this is kind of fun what is something that stood stood out in your interview last interview with Dr seuss.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We you know again same angle same approach you know, Dr seuss was was a fascinating gentlemen.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Very, to the point sort of responses in the questions wasn’t really a good conversation and it’s like you’d ask the question in the answer it’s like okay that’s all you’re getting but, but some of the.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Some of the unit is Ryan with green eggs and ham so.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Exactly so some unique things that came out that I didn’t realize at the time, every one of his books are political books and I didn’t realize that he said, you know if you if you look at the print.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: dateline of when it was first released and think about what’s going on in the world, the book is designed to get people to think about at that time it was going on in the world, so it’s fascinating I didn’t realize that.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Second, he never had children, he married a lady that had kids he lived in lighthouse.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He was a graphic artist on it, you know New York City before World War Two basically.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: theater you know Theodore guy useful was his name and he basically wasn’t having much success so after World War Two he came back and he flipped it used his mom’s maiden name gave himself the the moniker of Dr and started marking himself as Dr seuss and the rest is history so.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A lot of interesting nuggets came out.

David Horsager: that’s fun I love that.

David Horsager: Well there’s a lot we can cover today, but I think you know you’re definitely an expert in management leadership, and I think one place, I want to start, even though it might sound.

David Horsager: Big and then come into some of our work around trust and everything, but I think a lot of people wonder at least I do, how do you actually change individuals.

David Horsager: And then I want to go into how do we change the culture of organizations, but.

David Horsager: You know you see people they say they want to change they set a goal, they do this, but they don’t actually you know, very few people I was talking about this this morning actually habit change, I used to do this, some.

David Horsager: That I used to ask people how many of you have actually changed a diff wanted to change a habit.

David Horsager: There you know there’s of the audience hundred you know 100% I wanted to change a habit, I want to change and all of them some kind of difficult habits and then I asked how many of you ever have.

David Horsager: Like a habit of losing 30 pounds or more stopping smoking some habit that was kind of difficult maybe 6% it’s not easy.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Very good, what are some of the.

David Horsager: Things that you know that actually help people actually change a habit, how do you help.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So in my leadership work we actually have some forums and i’m big on forms, I think, life is nothing but a formula if you’re a.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You had an older brother sister when you’re a child, you saw how they did things you studied it in you, you mimic them and then you may be tweaked It made it your own approach.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If you had an older brother sister that did something I got caught, you can realize okay that you know I gotta change the formula here I don’t give something trouble.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Add 30 years now, your adult it’s the same thing so really it’s about what’s the formula, you know we are creatures of habit dusty adage and so, once you realize how you do things.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: In you like it, you can double down if you realize how you do things and you don’t like it, then you can start to reverse analyze and change their habits so here’s some of the formulas I would share with our viewers.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, one of the things I talked about in my recent book your trajectory codes, I make a statement from the stage when i’m talking at large conventions are working and leadership development in a small group.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And I say folks i’m going to say something here it’s going to challenge conventional wisdom, the difference between failure and success is nothing.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The difference between failure and success is nothing everyone talks about you know to be more successful do, and they want to sell you the whatever’s instance let’s back this up and think about from a performance psychology standpoint here’s the point.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: five words, you can write down these will take you to disaster same five words will take you to success, therefore, the difference between five and successes nothing.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: it’s a matter of how you channel these five words which goes to in essence your questions so think of it this way.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We all learn how to do things so that would be the word behavior we could write down behavior on the whiteboard at the front of the room, as they say.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then underneath that there’s four additional words.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, training and development, just like what you do around the trusted leader programming, what I do around leadership development we train people on behaviors because again fill in the blank with wherever you want to go with the conversation.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But once you learn how to do something behaviorally that’s a conscious activity, then it starts to become subconscious or the word below behavior is habit.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: It starts to become a habit, the more you do it, or the more it’s you know compliance based training and you got to check this holding you accountable.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then, once it starts to become a habit and starts to slide your subconscious brain is kind of like okay I got it I don’t really have to pay attention.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Once it goes to that second word of habit, then it goes to the third Ward which I call personal SAP a personal standard operating procedure.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Once something migrates from behavior to have it forming to personalize soapy personal so P means now it’s pretty much ingrained in your subconscious and it’s autopilot.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: People sometimes if you drive to work, you know again you’ll be home you’re paying attention next, and you realize you’re getting out of the car working they go holy crap I don’t remember the drive that’s your third level.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So those elements same thing in a business, we do that, then, once it hits that third level, I draw a line on the whiteboard and I said so now what happens it goes to the fourth word and the fourth word is basically ownership.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We take ownership of the way we do things we start to push away any stimulant any information anyone that might challenge that pathway that pathology that habit that behavior that personal esop.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And then, once you get to that level, then you rapping motion the fifth word is emotion.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You wrap emotion around so now you’re offended in your defensive and you’re on guard anyone comes and says.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: David that’s the wrong way of doing it and knows i’m even pointing my finger because that’s usually how the words come out because that’s what happened when we were kids.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, if you think about those five those five can take you to failure transfer those words to the positive column it’s exact same pathology to success.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So the difference is now we can go even deeper with trusted leader or with leadership work that I do to my leadership Academy of excellence programming.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: is how you create the change i’ll give you three more words in a minute, which is going to be the secret sauce everybody.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But you have to recognize again if I start out wherever and I want to create the right behaviors from the beginning, or I want to get people to maybe.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: adjust their behaviors a little bit or change them completely.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You have to have checkpoints like little gates, how do you know if you’re on track if I do this it gets me to this checkpoint or gate and I go through it and I go to the next step.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know what are those key performance indicators that can validate if you’re on track or off track that we use in business.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So then another overlay to making sure those five words written down don’t take you to disaster would take you to success.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: is going to be what’s the accountability mechanisms what’s the accountability partners, you have what sort of a.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: cohort do you have do you have a coach or a champion or a mentor you know all those words were used in business, but now we’re putting together architecturally.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To make sense, so again, if you want to change behavior, just as you said, stop smoking or lose weight it actually is easy to do if you build the architecture necessary to create change.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The problem is, we start off with the right intention, but we don’t have all the architecture there, so we get in trouble.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You go to a nice restaurant they bring you out a meal and wow there’s a lot of foods so we’re kind of taught here you have on your plate off, but most meals that are delivered to you, I really probably enough to have like two or three settings out of them.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So freak out the waitstaff soon as they deliver your meal say hey this looks great could you bring me like right now at to go box and look at look at you weird and so when they bring it over take half the food off your plate.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Well, if it’s a restaurant you go to on a regular basis involved that restaurant to help you don’t cut back to food portion.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Say i’m ordering this when it comes out bring it out beautifully have to go back behind your backs and hand that to me so now you’re holding me accountable to breaking it down, I mean that’s a simple silly example.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But we don’t put the accountability steps in there and that’s why we get in trouble second and last answer and it’ll give you the three steps to change it i’ve come up with.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: isn’t you have to incentivize yourself with the other person again if you build compensation business.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Around performance excellence you’ll get more of it in the United States we’ve actually calibrated people to be lazy and pathetic and then those words sometimes offend people have to bring some Gallup research into prove it.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I mean again they have found that roughly you know 56% of workers are disengaged complacent or you can be more harsh and just say that they’re worthless, but people don’t become worthless overnight they’re pushed that way.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: 15% are actively against anything, those are your cancer cells and organization i’ve written about those So if you do the math 29% of any demographic or proactively engaged.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: study any successful business they figured out how to hire the 29 percenters and incentivize at 29 percenters again if you’re an employee based organization that has ownership.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then everyone understands how to save every penny, you can because at the end of the day for all employees owners.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: that’s what happens at the end of day you get paid at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day, right now, everyone gets paid at the beginning, and we have challenges.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So a lot of response to a question about how do you create the change, you know what what what’s the pathology to get there.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But if I were to back it up, let me give you my three macro answers, if you want to create change you get people to buy into doing something new or different step one i’ve learned is the word awareness.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Think about a debut not have these smartphones that we now use everyone has a smartphone if you take your smartphone you think if you’re searching something on the Internet.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And you and you find it and you click to go to that information we’re held hostage today by that six second advertising commercial that pops up and you can’t get to where you want to go until it counts down and then, when it says skip boom you hit skip.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: These three words i’m given to you, you can test it right now, when you’re done with this podcast just pick up your cell phone.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You search for something the Ad pops up, they have six seconds to do these three words and if they do these three words you’ll tend to keep watching that and for a couple more seconds.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But they don’t do these three words you’re going to hit a board skip and go to where you want to go so here’s a quick way to test how to create change.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: first step is awareness and awareness deals with two words what and why.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I want to get David to create change in anything his department is team himself.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then, the first thing I have to slow down and speak to is i’ve got to get david’s brain wrapped around what i’m talking about and why it’s important what i’m talking about and why it has an impact on you, because if I don’t.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I may be in mentally and talking about step to your brain still step one see we use this buzzword getting people to buy in i’m giving you the roadmap of what binds all about buying has to be first on what we’re talking about in y which is awareness.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: second step dens engagement and engagement number two deals with all the H O w so if David if I, if I have 100 point.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: PowerPoint slide and then slide 10 you understand what i’m talking about and why then I don’t want to show the next 90 slides trying to make my case one, because now i’m going to turn you off I need to instantly go to.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Number two engagement our brain and wants to know how to do this, how to fix this how to solve this how to adjust how to you know accommodate.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And if we make the H O w so incredibly easy with support mechanisms like what I just talked about a minute ago for the five steps.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That our brain instantly go to step three to change there’s only three steps to change awareness.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: does what and why engagement deals with how, and the third step is commitment and commitment deals with the WHO and the win.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So why people will convert and change if we show them and make the case for one, two and then three, the problem is we’re wanting everyone to be at three because you and I spent time last night, as executives getting our brain wrapped around one and two.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We spent all night getting our brain wrapped around one and two, and then you want to send an email and three seconds and expect them to go from one to two three so huge.

David Horsager: I love that I love that let’s take that another level, so that’s a human, I mean, I think we start in this really gets into you know our work around how how how to get to absolute clarity of how we do some we asked how until we can act on it today or tomorrow.

David Horsager: But the What if let’s take a big company like you and i’ve worked in let’s take a you know or a corporate you know.

David Horsager: or a country needs to Africa we’re trying to cut down corruption issues right or we’re trying to change the culture of a big company we won’t name them, but how do we.

David Horsager: How do we apply this to cascading through a big company I think it’s It makes sense, like Okay, we got to get awareness around a common language and we gotta you know it.

David Horsager: makes sense, but are there any just just a couple of tips to think about how would I drive change in a group a team, or even an organization.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Powerful case so that conversation right there could you know united sit down and visit on that one all day long and still just be touching the surface.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I have a couple responses that when I think one let’s start with one of the words you just use, which was common language.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: It is amazing, and how many organizations or, as you said countries we don’t have common language so i’m going to answer your question, David but it’s going to be.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A little controversial for some people that have an essence, you know minimalist ears i’m about to hurt and blow their brain up number one common language to a business is non negotiable.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: common language in a business should be non negotiable, the key people that have created the company or on the company are making the company possible for me, or you to become an employee in.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The common language is what keeps everyone together and if someone comes into the organization and they want us to change the language to accommodate them.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then know you need to say hey the beauty of the capitalist system is there’s the door walk at it there’s a 9000 are the places to go.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The rise and fall of every civilization there’s not many history majors left on the planet, unfortunately K 12 system is produced idiots for the past 30 years that they think rhetoric is a fact.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The rise and fall of every civilization and that’s every business is based upon common language, we have the same common language, it gives us our ability to stick together.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You start attacking that common language introducing 9000 or the variations you get in trouble so that’s the first point, which is going to be very uncomfortable people.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: say again, unless you’re a billionaire think about what i’ve just said, see every billionaire will challenge my COMP the Bill Gates the Zuckerberg and etc it’s easy when you’re a billionaire to have socialistic ideas.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Go back and look when they’re building the business they didn’t have one of those I hate to pop the bubble look at the history it’s at one is common language very sensitive.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: topic it’s everyone’s stressed out number two then.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Values your values will dictate your common language common language will dictate your values and the two are interconnected.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What are your values if I want to bring an organization that the other part of your question, I want to create change within it.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What are the common values, because your common values will give you a way with grace and dignity and to be polite.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To allow people to come into that circle, or to politely say look, this is just not the right place for you no disrespect.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: This is not the right place for you go, you know go create your own business or go to another one see that’s the second place, we get in trouble what’s the values.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: there’s a lot of great examples woolworth.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If no one knows walworth write it down there’s your homework lesson.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Montgomery ward’s you don’t know that one write it down there’s your homework lesson sears sears and roebuck you don’t know that one right and then there’s your homework lesson.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: kmart you don’t know it write it down there’s your homework lesson if I just use those for for the past 100 years.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If they understood stay courting your values keep your common language and understand what you’re doing Amazon and walmart wouldn’t exist today.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Because Amazon and walmart or the same thing as a woolworth they delivered a product that commodity.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: All that happened was the distribution just system needed to be evolved they didn’t evolve and they disappeared.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, again there’s really nothing new for the young viewers today it’s everything’s been out there you just it’s evolving so second is language first is language second is valued.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The third way you get through it is, then, how do you keep score number three write that down, how do you keep score.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: See that’s The other problem is, we have multiple scorecard for us organization, whether you call those you know performance reviews, or how you compensate.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Or what are your goals you know what you know how do you how do you assign post along the road life to know if you’re on track or ahead of schedule behind schedule.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know what do you bring your you know project managers in and a start doing Gantt charts and lean six Sigma and scrum teams, I mean Seattle these words in there.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But if you peel back it goes into the skeletal framework what’s your scorecard.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Because the scorecard gives everyone the lanes of how they’re going to be measured, what we need to do and how we contribute to the overall organization and it keeps everyone honest.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You don’t have scorecards you have 9000 different languages and interpretations of our values.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I would say third is going to be your scorecard for how do you compensate and how do you incentivize two elements, but it all deals with money to the day, how do you compensate and how do you and have you incentivize people because people will do.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: What they’re incentivized to do, and this again takes us down another lane that can be very, very controversial.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But again just take a look in society and sometimes we step back and go, how is that these people do this, why is it they’re allowed to do this.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: what’s because that’s how they’re being compensated incentivized or that’s a scorecard that someone’s not holding them accountable to or that they’re using.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: which goes to the values they have or don’t have which goes to the language they’re using I mean all of this stuff’s interconnected wow.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And we can log on going.

David Horsager: There we go I love it Oh, my goodness we could go in Okay, so we got to talk a little bit because we you know you know all of our work around trust.

David Horsager: And how I mean we believe a lack of trust is the biggest cost of an organization of research that lack of trust the biggest expense every every.

David Horsager: thing of value is built on trust, and trust is always the leading indicator everything lags it’s not a leadership issue, we only follow a leader, not because of trusting us a dictator, which isn’t the leader.

David Horsager: Every only reason we buy or not is trust it’s not a sales issue it’s a trust issue unless it’s a commodity.

David Horsager: it’s not a marketing issue, the only way to amplify marketing message to increase trust, the only way to increase learning in a.

David Horsager: In a in a in a classroom is increase trust and the content, the teacher or the psychological safety your trust of the room, the only way to deal with you know.

David Horsager: on and on, we go innovation goes up and trust goes up because people share ideas and creativity and all that but you’ve thought about this you’ve talked about it, what say you.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: yeah it’s powerful i’m on the phone this morning at 6am Pacific time a coaching call with the C suite executive for a half a billion dollar.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Ad replying to mine in California, when I get done with this podcast i’ll be i’ll be on a you know zoom call with a CEO of a $4 billion financial group in North Carolina.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: what’s interesting is that part of the conversation with both of them is exactly David what you just said, the issues all do come back to trust.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So one organization to trust is not that anyone has done anything negative it’s at the C suite team have a lot of new players and they really haven’t had a chance to really spend time getting to know each other.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So again, you know the question i’d post to the executives when you know when you’re in you’re in when you’re at your desk and you’re faced with a challenge, or an issue whatever level, that means of challenging problem.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Who do you think of first in your head or who do you think of first to go to to get any counsel from.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So that’s gonna be a fun exercise to see what they write down because if the eight of them don’t have each other’s names written down on a sheet of paper.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That gives us a clue you’re not leveraging the DNA of the senior bench of the organization and that’s a trust issue so that’s one element.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The other organization of trust is because someone isn’t living up to the scorecard a second person isn’t dealing with some of their toxic employees.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A third person, in essence, is using double standards with who they keep who they’re not keeping who they’re promoting who they’re not so you have lots of different things going on that could impact trust.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So I bring it back to this element and again, you know, I have some of the same DNA, so this may be a page out of your book because it’s a page out of my book and it’s neither one of David or Jeff, this is the page from someone that we met long time ago.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Think of trust as a bank account.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, again, if you want to have a relationship with anyone, you can you know, whatever it is you’re trying to do just think of it as a bank account when you think of a bank account you, I do have deposits and withdrawals out.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So if I want to establish trust the mistake we make, is it what David values as what creates trust may not be what Jeff mcgee values, you have to think of each person has their own bank account.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So if I want to establish more trust with Jeff mcgee, then what are the things that are a value to him, and if I do that it establishes trust so again I keep my word if i’m on time, etc, those are all deposits.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And again, we may sometimes not recognize we’re doing it overtly or even consciously but we’re always withdrawing from accounts so, then I take it to the next step, David I say, think of it this way.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every bank today works, the same way, for most people now, this may be bad, but this is really what they’re doing every bank, if you have a checking account or debit account.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: gives you overdraft protection and what that means is that, for some reason, David, if I have an account with david’s bank here.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He has some sort of a a reason to look at me because of my title of my stature my age or previous experience.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He gives me overdraft protection, which means I can bounce a couple of checks before he gets mad I can take some money out of the account with I don’t really have money in it and he’ll let it float for a little while but I got to put a deposit back in.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: The danger of that is it we now take that into relationships and people sometimes forget, you need to make deposits, and if that doesn’t make sense I take it to another level with with clients with audience to say okay if you’re a parent raise your hand.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If you think about it, you have a relationship with all of your kids and the kids sometimes take more than they actually give yes, and do you give your kids overdraft protection, yes, you do.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Do you have any kids over the age of 21 still living at home, yes you’re giving them overdraft protection tell them to get the best out of the House and go get a job.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So, then, we can make some jokes people get it so So the answer comes down to think of your relationship with a vendor with a client with a customer with a supplier, with a Co worker with your boss.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: With a virtual assistant, because the whole world is va now again as a relationship and so to me there’s four sides to healthy relationships in business.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So one side is trust that’s what you own another side is assertiveness a third side is motivation and the base of this House is communication.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So you’ve got to recognize where the deposits and all four of these and you’ve always got to be making deposits, not just making withdrawals, that is the way I try to get people to understand how you build these healthy relationships huge.

David Horsager: Huge I love it well with 20 bucks and a whole lot more i’m just going to make a couple of recommendations again get the new one trajectory code, but the managerial leadership Bible everybody managing needs that needs to read that.

David Horsager: anytime you lead anybody so.

David Horsager: let’s let’s let’s go, what are you learning these days what’s what’s top of your mind these days.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We have lots of buzzwords i’m finding coming out of this pandemic era globally.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: That are not new words but maybe we’re getting some language on those so you know innovation is always been out if you’re an entrepreneur.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know that’s synonymous with innovation, so what i’m learning these days is really how to innovate everything I do.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To a level of four i’ve realized that people make changes, based upon one or a combination of only four therefore my customers are looking at me to how I can help them to.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: grow develop innovate, you know be cutting edge all those buzzwords so what i’m learning is how to innovate, based upon either better.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Faster different cost effective that’s the only four ways you’re going to change the behavior is better, faster different cost effective.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: If I can show you that my whatever is more efficient for you, that might be the word faster then you’ll consider my idea my program coming to my meeting or etc.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So i’m pushing myself to innovate at a factor of four which is better, faster different more cost effective in everything I do.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m learning how to put profitability into not only relationships with business and i’m looking at profitability different not how do I get smarter with everything so at the end, I have some money.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m actually building profitability into the front side so let’s say I want to make 10 bucks or i’m going to generate $10 in revenue.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And I want to dollars a profitability out of that what i’m doing is i’m reversing the financial models, we were taught in business school.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And if I have 10 bucks i’m going to take the first $2 in profit and forgot, how do I then run everything on the next $8.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: and get my profitability squeeze out of that that eight i’m going i’m going Amazon on this everyone, so instead of b******g about these billion dollar companies.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: they’re playing within the rules are not breaking any laws, but what they’re doing I realized that their engineering their business after they’ve already decided what their profit, they want to be.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Then that’s the money left over on the table, they run their business and they still squeeze profitability out the backside.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: As we look at that whole $10 and try to be as efficient as we can to maybe get two bucks at the end.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I want.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: To box is my goal so innovation level for quick example.

David Horsager: What would be is there anything else, just a quick another example of something you’ve seen you know we both walked by leaders and walk with leaders in the last 16 months.

David Horsager: what’s what’s something you’re noticing about those leaders and organizations that have done, especially well over the last year and a half throughout the pandemic and this massive change.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: wow so now folks you everyone needs to shut up sit down and taking a because David just took you right to the juggler.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m charging clients 10s of thousands of dollars here the same Sir David, so I can’t believe you ask that one I actually have have have seen one incredibly obvious clear answer.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every business that’s thriving i’m not even just talking about getting by every business is thriving their senior leadership team has sales revenue generation in your pedigree.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every business is in trouble their leadership team does not have sales revenue generation inner pedigree, which is what I mean.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m here in Las Vegas at the time we’re recording this 85% of the restaurants in Las Vegas strip are still not open.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, year after the pandemic kids started we’ve been through it and things are now opening up and it’s because all of those restaurants have phenomenal celebrity chef names behind them as entrepreneurs.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But they don’t understand revenue generation, how to sell.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So again, what i’m now looking if I go back in history and look at businesses the C suite the majority of those executives, not all of them.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Somewhere in their lifespan their pedigree they were in sales marketing client development, you know outreach the revenue generation jobs.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And i’ve been talking about that for years in my leadership program my core program is called the leadership academy bathrooms I work with a business for one year, minimum.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Three of those 12 months we spend time drilling into revenue generation and some leaders they when we get there, they don’t understand why we’re talking about it well that’s not my space I go no yes it is.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And so cove it has become my world’s best case study to prove my point have been talking about.

David Horsager: I love it fascinating good stuff.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: wow then funds but that’s fast 30 minutes David.

David Horsager: that’s a fast 30 but you know you gotta give me what’s motivating you these days, by the way, from the.

David Horsager: You know you sold a big company.

David Horsager: After building a guide you know training development company you’re still speaking sharing writing what what’s motivating you these days.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Fine, finding real businesses and real people that really want to be successful and their egos not in the room yeah he goes always gonna be driving it.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But the ego is not the first thing I walked into a room and they’re just trying to create that legacy, you know how do you make.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: A room a group people business better at the end of the day, then it was at the beginning of the day, and if you look at it, that perspective.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: that’s what’s fun, for me, I work with some phenomenal clients that truly are reminding me i’m having real life experiences if anyone’s following me on linkedin it’s only social media I play on you’re following me i’m learning success.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: made all over against from phenomenal clients, I have that are teaching me servant leadership in terms of what it really means innovation in terms of what it really means.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: taking care of your people in terms what it really means, but not being stupid about how you do it, though, so that’s what gets me excited.

David Horsager: So let’s let’s get personal for just a few minutes before we wrap this thing together what when you think about it, at least when we talk about leadership.

David Horsager: You know, we talked about you got to lead yourself first what are some things you’re doing maybe it’s routines habits or ways you’re leaving yourself you’re leading so many others walking alongside so many others, I know, for me, in coming.

David Horsager: You know walking with somebody senior leaders it’s easy to take a lot of their weight and their challenges and and all these issues, but if we’re going to be doing that we got to do some things to keep our own maybe it’s physical health mental health, what are you doing.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So great questions and you’re right people come to you and I.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: strategically and surgically to help them, whether we’re just on their you know consulting retainer list so when they have a challenge, they know we’re in their pocket.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Whether we are really you know integrated into the organization so you’re my level that’s a great question so for me, I think the first answer is going to be the word discipline.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You have to have the discipline today finish that sentence anyway, you want, so my discipline is I get up around 430 every morning.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: My first business engagement activities going to be by 6am every morning because the world is global and 24 seven.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So the discipline to be where my fun clients live in be there when and where they need me, but then I also do plug in you know Jeff time you know again for me.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know i’ve got a brother loves motorcycles I don’t trust two wheels so i’ll just you know drive my convertible.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So for me it’s it’s going out for a drive and just enjoying Mother Nature what god’s blessed us with, I mean that absolutely may drive some people crazy.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But that’s a part of my discipline, I always go for therapy drive every day or every couple of days.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I do exercise, I mean i’m not the athlete I was 40 years ago 30 years ago so i’m not even about to misrepresent pretend.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But I do a little exercise every day absolutely but it’s discipline, I have an accountability partner holds me accountable to these elements, this is i’m an accountability partner and I help hold people accountable.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So it’s discipline its commitment and it’s focused what’s your vision and where are you wanting to go and what are the clarity of those goals.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And are you continuously working towards us, I think the mindset of some people yeah I want to retire one day.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m not a subscriber of that, I think, for some people, maybe so but I think the planet is shifted and for some people, you and I.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: i’m just going to assume into this if i’m wrong David correct me but i’m assuming that you and I were this way before the pandemic what the beauty of the pandemic has done.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: good and bad is it sniffed out and put the spotlight on a lot of low performers and now they can’t hide.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And it’s given company’s ability to do with didn’t have the guts to be before the pandemic, which is a now can you know they had the ability to fire a ton of people and be legally, you know get away with it.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: But it’s also put the spotlight on businesses and people to reevaluate what they want, out of life and what they really want to do and and what’s really important, and I think a lot of things that were.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know in play, the year before the pandemic, some of them are going to probably cease to exist because people really have had a chance to evaluate.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And so, with that back to you know the last response to your question of me I think for for me, and you, and some people, the word retirement is never going to happen, not because we can’t.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I think for me at least and i’m going to assume you know for our viewers as much as i’ve interacted with David and.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And we’ve been at conferences, where we spoke together, not on the same stage but you’re in one room and on the other, and i’ve come in and i’ve played students to learn from you many times as well.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: I love what i’m doing so, as long as God allows me to get vertical every day i’m doing this because I love it at some level as long as I can, and I think that’s kind of how I rebooted you know the the the next generation of me.

David Horsager: One piece of advice in a sentence.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: legacy, you are your own legacy, what is it that you want the second generation of people that you’re touching to know about you, if you’re a parent.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Your kids are not your legacy change chapter challenge your paradigm your kids are not your legacy it’s what your kids do in who your kids touch that next generation is really your legacy.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So for me what’s my legacy is not just what I do but it’s the people I can engage, what do they do with it and how do they affect that next person they touch.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Every day, his legacy if this was your last day on the planet, what would the videotape from birth today show you’ve accomplished or did you completely waste away the time that was given to you.

David Horsager: good advice good advice hey before the final question it’s been the trusted leader show all the show notes finding Jeff Dr jeffries books.

David Horsager: And more about all the work he’s doing performance magazine and more you can find that trusted leader show.com everything will be there in a bio on Dr Jeff today he’s an amazing guy I hope we get it do we get to see each other, this summer yeah.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We will we will both be at a couple conferences, the summer that on my calendar to so.

David Horsager: All right.

David Horsager: I look i’m looking forward to that hey before we go Dr Jeffrey what where can people find out about you Where would you if we they went directly to you this all be in the show notes, but give a give a quick How can people find you directly.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Thank you two ways one just is my name is spelled on the screen so at Jeffrey mcgee.com.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Is my talent development company, what I do B2B and B2C and a lot of resources on there, you can consume.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: My media company is professional performance magazine.com professional performance magazine.com every quarter, I do a publication for now 30 years.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We go out and get phenomenal global personalities to write articles on pure performance achievement success we don’t do feature stories on.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: stupid questions about what’s going on, just as you’ve done today you’ve asked hard hitting questions and I love it.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: So it’s phenomenal we’ve had the last four presidents and states have written, for me, global leaders pro athletes celebrities military generals New York Times bestselling authors Indian tribal chiefs, etc.

David Horsager: And even David or soccer.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: and David something.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: We all got that open invitation anytime you send an article you’re in baby.

David Horsager: All right, thank you so it’s the trusted leader show Dr different menu who’s a leader you trust and why.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know i’m not going to answer that one because no matter how you say it we’re going to get in trouble so i’ll answer it this way, the person you follow should truly walk the talk and that’s the problem we have a lot of people answer that but but it’s too easy to say I you know.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Warren Buffett I had a chance to interview him years ago phenomenal person Warren Buffett well what’s that really mean so you know I could say oprah winfrey or I could say.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: You know, a name no one’s ever heard of, so I would really challenge our viewers on that one who do you really trust it truly does influence how you think and feel i’ve got a lot of those things but that’s a powerful question you asked.

David Horsager: Well, I think that’s that’s the point of it too is it’s not about them it’s really about how do we become.

David Horsager: A trusted leader and not just a trusted leader, we talked about we call that the show the book and everything else, but is it better to be trusted or trustworthy Of course you can manipulate.

David Horsager: The eight pillars of trust or other things to look trust without actually being worthy of and what we’re really going for at the end of the day is trust worthiness you know.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: zig zig or would be the name, if I have to put it out there because Ziegler.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: For those of you don’t know him, you can Google and but I was sitting in a workshop in Charlotte North Carolina many years ago, the gentleman comes and sits down next to me in a suit.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: have no idea who he is he’s obviously at that time mathematical old enough to be my father doing a program the person front calls on him.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: And he starts to answer and there’s only one singular voice on the planet, since you started answering on the Holy moly i’m sitting next to one of the gods of management leadership trust integrity and from that came almost a 20 year.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: mentorship friendship, he wrote the foreword to to my books, he wrote in every issue my magazine before he passed away.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: He reached out to me, and he sent me a zip file of 77 articles that have never been published, that he gifted to me so in every issue my magazine, the last page last article still from the grave zero so if you’re gonna push me for a name.

Dr. Jeffrey Magee, CMC, CSP, CBE, PDM: Is a man of integrity i’ll go with him.

David Horsager: You know, he doesn’t do it all the time, but I was fortunate to have him, you know meet him several times before he left for it became friends of the family and all that before he before he passed away, but he also endorsed my first book trust edge and just honored honored by that so.

David Horsager: Well, this has been a.

David Horsager: whole lot of fun there’s a lot more wisdom we’re going to have to bring back def Dr Jennifer Mike you’ve never bought anything buddy back, but we’re gonna have to bring you back sometime before.

David Horsager: logging and i’m looking forward to seeing you this summer and so that has been the trusted leader show until next time stay trusted.